Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

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Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

Bob Blacka (KG2RU) on January 24, 2005
View comments about this article!

Many articles have been written by hams explaining the difficulty of finding a home that is free of CC&R's that prevent the use of outside antennas. I now find myself in the situation of having to relocate and it occurred to me that it would be a great help if there was a website I could visit to find out which areas of the state were "Ham Friendly" and which were "Ham Un-Friendly". This is where eHam comes in.

Why not have a new section in eHam kind of like the Product Reviews section where hams could enter their opinions on the "friendliness" of the areas they live in. The first level could be STATE, followed by COUNTY, then CITY or subdivision.

This new forum could be structured just like the product reviews already on eHam. This would be of enormous help to hams looking to relocate. It could be called something like "Relocation Info for Hams" or whatever.

What do you think? Would you use it?

Member Comments:

This article has expired. No more comments may be added.

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by KT0DD on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

It's sad that this country is becoming so fractionalized and discriminatory towards hams, but I think this is a great idea. It would make it easier for a ham who has to move somewhere to be able to get an idea of whether there's going to be alot of hassle or not. 73

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by KB9YUR on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

I think it's a great idea as well. It might a good idea to actually have three catagories of
listings:
A: Totally 100% Ham Friendly (No agreements, permits, restrictions of anykind, etc.)
B: Partially Ham Friendly (Some restrictions on antenna heights, other issues, HT's ok)
C: Totally 100% Non Ham Friendly (No antenna's of anykind, not even indoors, no HT's)
The database could be searched by state, city and/or zipcode and also possibly list
in those areas that are Ham Friendly (totally or partially) those Hams who are willing to
give advice, pointers and share their experiences with others.
Here in Berwyn, IL (EN61), I've had absolutely no problems with putting up antennas
of anykind.
George ...

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by K3PRN on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Yes, this would be a great idea to have a list or forum for Ham-Friendly communities. I am currently looking for a home in which I can install my 48' tower and other antennas.

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by K3ZE on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

How about allowing real estate agents who are Hams to list there names, area of operation, phone numbers, e-mail and agency? Ham/real estate agents should have the inside track on what neighborhoods have restrictions and those that do not and the local city or county requirements. In addition, he/she would know the needs of the Ham as far as adequate house wiring, space for a shack, area topography, clear vs. wooded lots, etc.

73 Al K3ZE

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by N0IU on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

There is a fundamental problem with this. Several years ago my wife an I bought the "ideal" piece of property. It is in a small subdivision (only 15 homes) all on 3 acre lots in a somewhat rural part of the county. The word "antenna" is not even mentioned in the CC&Rs. Having moved there from a fairly typical suburban lot, my primary HF antenna was a Cushcraft R7 vertical. Just to be on the safe side, I asked the president of the HOA if it be OK to put up my antenna and also a wire antenna (a 270' Carolina windom) between some trees. When asked if this would cause any interference with their TV, I said that I would take reasonable measures to filter out RFI and that if there were any problems, that any one of my neighbors should feel free to call me.

For about a year I operated primarily on CW on weekend mornings, but once in a while I would operate in the evening during the week or participate in a contest. I never received a single telephone call from any neighbor so this left me to assume (a VERY dangerous thing to do!) that no one was being bothered by my station. The one day the president and vice president of the HOA knocked on my door with a petition that had been signed by the other 14 homeowners. They had all agreed to change the CC&R so that ALL outdoor antennae, except for satellite dishes 24" in diameter or less, would be prohibited. I was shocked! Obviously I did not sign it but it clearly had a majority. I did, however, ask the president what she called her father's father to which she responded, "Grandfather" to which I informed her that this did not affect my existing antennas and all it meant was that I could not put up any new ones.

The bottom line here folks is that even though you move into a place with no prohibitions against antennas, this does not mean that people can't change their mind! Hopefully, PRB-1 will be extended to apply to private land use contracts one day soon.

As a side note to all this, one of the other residents took part in a local emergency preparedness class with the local police department. The class was taught by the department's emergency management coordinator who also happens to be a ham. Of course he extolled the virtues of ham radio to the group and even encouraged them to get involved. At the next HOA meeting, she reported back to the group about how crucial ham radio could be in times of disaster then the president of the HOA said, "Since Scott is a ham, we can all go over to his house if there is a disaster!" Deep inside, I felt like telling them all to *&%# off, but someone had to be the adult so I just nodded my head politely and asked that they all wipe their feet before coming in.

de Scott NØIU

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by SFD301 on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

>>>>>>It's sad that this country is becoming so fractionalized and discriminatory towards hams,<<<<<

I don't have this problem here, and I feel for the hams that do, however is it a feeling toward the ham or the equiptment? Strip it all away and I think it's the unsightly equiptment. I know when I move from the city to the burbs, into a nice new home, with all underground utilities and such, large towers, antennas, and wires would not be my first choice.

I'm not against them, just that if I choose that community then I would know going in what the rules are. I'm new to the hobby, but have already compromised with the xly on the 2m/70cm vertical in the attic, and my 6m loop out back. She wants nothing, and I want the tower and all....lol...i think wires in the tress are my next steps.

Great idea on the forum!

kc2nmx

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by K5UJ on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

<<<Several years ago my wife an I bought the "ideal" piece of property. It is in a small subdivision (only 15 homes) all on 3 acre lots in a somewhat rural part of the county. The word "antenna" is not even mentioned in the CC&Rs.>>>

That was mistake no. 1. If there are any CC&Rs at all, don't buy. If there are CC&Rs then there is a HOA. If there is a HOA, there are lawyers and, property nazis and their followers who will all cause you way too many headaches as you found out.

<<<Having moved there from a fairly typical suburban lot, my primary HF antenna was a Cushcraft R7 vertical. Just to be on the safe side, I asked the president of the HOA>>>

Mistake no. 2. Never ask anyone if it is okay for you to put up an antenna. It's none of their business. Check the municipal code--if what you want to do is in conformance with that, just put it up. Asking any private citizen if it is okay for you to do whatever with YOUR property is tanamount to ceding control of your property and your rights as a property owner to someone else.

The eham real estate rating forum sounds like a good idea and worth a try at least.

Generally, any new development is bad news. As a rule of thumb, buy either in old areas in towns and city neighborhoods that are not part of a planned development, or locate out in the sticks somewhere not on or near any planned development.

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by W7AIT on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Having moved a number of times, I take the responsibility to ask if the area allows ham antennas and has CC&R's /HOA BEFORE considering a purchase.

Its not the real estate agents responsbility to provide this information up front but it is their responsibility and the sellers responsibility to fully disclose when asked prior to completeing the sale. Its cavet emptor, you don't ask in advance, they aren't obligated to tell. (Same goes for power line noise, nearby power lines and insert BPL here too).

As far as specific areas as a data base for such - might be helpful but how would it be updated and kept current?

One can tell if they're going to have trouble with a potential real estate deal and ham antennas if there is any HOA.

CC&R's: CC&R's exist on most property and ranges from the simple 1 pager adressing mineral rights saying nothing about antennas and such to the 50 page detailed CC&R / HOA documents spelling out everything including leaving your garbage can out over night, or parking your car in the driveway, to not allowing ham antennas. Again, it's the purchasers responsibility to review these documents to make sure antennas are allowed before making the purchase.

Generally I've found ANY NEW developments have HOA's and thus restrictions against antennas. Any tract newer than about 1978 will have HOA's and thus restrictions against antennas.

Its unfortunate, but I've noticed that ham antennas are allowed in the older (shabbier) neighborhoods, but not in the new or newer neighborhoods. Any new neighborhood with a well manicured look will generally not allow antennas. Any neighborhood where three cars are parked in the grass lawn and the boat or RV is parked next to the house generally allows ham antennas. Same goes for the desert southwest - if its a gated desert community, forget the antennas. If its out in unincorporated desert - dirt roads, septic, well water, etc, then antennas are generally ok.

Its a sad state of freedom. If we want the freedom of putting up our antennas, we generally have to accept living in a shabbier neighborhood, unless of course you are rich and can afford expensive, exclusive custom real estate on your own property where no CC&R or HOA exist.

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WN3R on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

One place NOT to come is MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MD. While the county is ham friendly, the neighbors generally are not. One story to follow is the one about John Evans, N3HBX. John bought 44 acres in "rural" Montgomery County for just over $1,000,000. The county approved his plan for 4 towers and the neighbors are going nuts. Lots of press coverage, the ARRL is involved, and John has spent over $28,000 (last reported) in legal fees. Most neighbors have yard signs with a phone number looking for support in taking the towers down. John won the first court battle. Not sure what the future holds.

After Montgomery County rightly asked me to remove my wire antennas from THEIR trees behind my home, I bought 10 acres on top of a mountain in Frederick County Maryland. Towers are a permitted use up there as you might expect.

Local counties often sell large tracts of land for pennies on the dollar in tax sales. You can find more info at www.taxsale.com.

Good luck.

Dick, WN3R

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by W7WV on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

I have to agree with W7AIT. If there is an HOA or CCRs on the property, don’t buy it if you ever want to put up antennas. My kids live in the city and have CCRs and HOAs and they even tell them when to mow their lawns and weed. And they seem to change the rules anytime they want to. They even sent my daughter a letter for putting a DTV dish on her back fence which did not meet with the mounting requirements. The only problem was that it was not her dish, it was the neighbor’s.

When I got my Novice Ticket in the 1970s, my suburb located home was built in 1948 before HOAs came into being. I had nothing but problems with the neighbors about the “looks” of my antennas. This was part of the reason I gave up my license and did not renew.

When I retired and decided to get back into the hobby, I had no idea what kind of problems I was going to have putting a simple dipole up on my roof using a TV antenna and mast for the center support. There was nothing in the contract lease in the mobile home park we had moved into, but the landlord had a catch all that stated anything I put up outside must be approved. I bluffed her and kept the antenna, but nothing else was going to be added as long as I lived there.

When I moved the first thing I did was check with the county where I was going to live about any restrictions and what would be needed to put up a tower and beam. Then when I purchased the property from a private individual, I made sure there was no HOA or CCRs of any kind on the property.

The bottom line here seems to be that most utilities today are being installed underground as they are seen as unsightly. Our antennas are only a thing of beauty to us for what they will do for us. Let’s face it, most of them are ugly to the public.

The guy that sold me this property is complaining that when prospective buyers look at the acre next to me they balk at purchase because of the T-6 I have sitting at 44’ that they will look at. I do have 3 other antennas on the property as well.

If the property gets cheap enough maybe I will buy it. More antennas??

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by W2EJG on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

You have struck the nerve, which will help the most in obtaining reasonable access to useable antennae. Forget the politicians, they just listen to the loudest whiners. The right approach is to follow the money.
Send letters to all local Real Estate agencies asking for a listing of all the CC&R communities in the area. Write to the Boards of those communities, asking for a copy of the deed restrictions. Tell them you are interested in the community but only if it is not too restrictive.
Then do the groundwork. Have the local Clubs take a handheld to the gate of each community and attempt to access the local repeater. DOCUMENT EVERY STEP Then notify the municipality, the Real Estate people and the communities that your ability to provide communications in an emergency (Hurricane, tornado, tsunami etc.) is substantially impaired by the inability to put up decent antennae. Ask the municipality and the Real Estate people to notify the communities of this condition. Wouldn’t hurt to let the local TV stations in on this. “Local residents in peril, story at 6” deal.
When the Real Estate people find that their ability to do deals is somewhat hampered and they are required to notify all interested sellers of this problem, they will pressure the CC&R guys to take another hard look.
The next step would be a statewide website, preferably sponsored by the Clubs for reasonably updated info on all the communities. “Here’s a friendly community”

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WA6BFH on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

I encourage the idea of a Ham Friendly Communities Listing for a few reasons. Some may have to read this entire post though to realize that for a couple of reasons the idea makes me chuckle.

1) Since Home Owners Associations (HOA’s) have become firmly entrenched over the last couple decades, the politics that come to bear on “unsightly antennas” are dogged. It would be good for Ham’s to be seen ‘playing the political game!

2) The idea of Ham’s inducing interference to neighbors (as one post suggested) is pretty much specious. I will elaborate on this subject to further follow.

3) On the matter of interference, what about when most homes in this Ham Friendly Community have 70 foot towers, KT-34’s, and Henry 2K5’s. I think the “interference” will be in the form of very local QRM.

More seriously on the matter of RFI, and TVI type interference, I am really annoyed when I hear Ham’s take a defensive posture on this. If you want to be defensive, engineer your station well, and you can politely tell the neighbors the problem is theirs, and not your concern.

Consider the types of interference that are prevalent that your neighbors would be concerned about. I will list them in order of most likely, to least likely -- and list their cures.

1) Audio Rectification -- to telephones and other audio devices.

The fix for this is “common mode choke filtering” ON AND ASSOCIATED WITH THE AUDIO DEVICE. Audio devices are poorly designed if they detect RF!

2) Television Interference or TVI. This can take a couple of forms,

A) Harmonic interception by the TV receiver, typical bands of concern are 10 and 20 Meters

The cure is adequate filtering on BOTH the TV receiver, and the Amateur Transmitter. Most Low Pass Filters for Ham’s are CRAP, but, some are quite good. Put a good low pass filter on your transmitter, calculate the amount of harmonic attenuation (as listed by the manufactures spec’s) and thereby know your harmonic output level (those with big amplifiers should take note).

The person who is experiencing the trouble with TVI should have a good High Pass Filter on their TV. Nearly all High Pass Filters I have seen are junk. R.L. Drake makes a good filter, as does a company called Industrial Communications Engineers (I.C.E.). There may be more companies of high quality High Pass Filters but, they are extremely rare.

B) Common Mode TVI, that takes place as the interfering signal ‘rides in’ on the outside of the shielded 75 Ohm cable to the TV receiver. This sort of interference is typical with Cable TV Systems.

The fix for this is common mode choke filters at the TV set cable tuner.

C) Interference to Cable TV Systems from various VHF Ham frequencies.

Cable companies are allowed to use any frequency they desire (and often use Ham frequencies) with the proviso that their signals be contained within the cable system. Many ‘leaks’ to cable system can occur, and this problem can be hard to find and fix. The good news is, fixing the problem is the OBLIGATION of the cable TV company!

3) Interference to other consumer devices such as Infrared switched lighting, or electrically opened garage doors.

This is almost always the fault of the complainant’s device installation. Common mode filtering is the cure. Where the Ham runs higher power (I.e. an amplifier) the problem is more likely but, the fault still lies within the installation of the consumer device.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the overall idea of Ham’s within any community though, and the usual reasons for the negative consideration by local governments. The main reason for most tower and antenna restrictions is aesthetic. Cities or community associations don’t primarily guard against RFI or TVI -- they don’t like the way Ham antennas look!

Most communities follow a standard set of rulings on antenna installations. 35 foot maximum heights seem to be popular in many communities. Ham’s should always look at and address appropriate “Launch Angel” and radiation patterns for their intended antennas. As an example, a 20 Meter Yagi should always be mounted at at least 70 feet etc.

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by K0BG on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

With my tongue in my cheek....

Wouldn't it be nice if every realtor was an amateur? My wasn't, but she knew exactly what I was looking for. There were some restrictions on my property, but they allowed TV antennas and that was my in. A quick chat with the builder and the developer, and I was in like Flynn. Too bad is isn't always this simple.

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by W9WHE-II on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Good idea, but is it workable?
If you put lots of hams in close proximity, you create new problems. Suppose a ham that enjoys running 100 watts into a beam moves into this very attractive subdivision. What do you think his 1500 watts (multipled by his 6dBd antenna)will do to your receiver?

While this may be good in theory, it may not be so practicle. Would we be better off carving out some Federal protection for towers, say up to 50 feet?

W9WHE

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by KT0DD on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

The whole concept of HOA's is communistic, and it's too bad that our constitution is just a fancy museum piece with no teeth anymore that gives us little defense. Most if not all county ordinances already have laws against blights such as bunches of used cars in a yard, unmowed fields get you a notice from the fire dept. etc., so the idea that a ham tower will lower property values is a reach of the imagination at best. And most people that will put up enough towers to possibly be an eyesore to someone usually are rich enough to buy far enough away from other people for this.

It all boils down to the fact that many people in our society have a feeling of powerlessness, and if a cause arises that gives someone power & control over someone or something, they jump on the bandwagon with both feet. It's pathetic that so many are so insecure. 73

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by KO1D on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

A more valuable resource might be a single source database of State laws that relate to PRB-1. For example, if I recall, and I could be wrong, someone told me that Virginia State law has some very ham friendly wording regarding CCRs and antennas, under certain conditions. State laws can come in quite handy in trumping snobbish prudes who are in HOAs.

With regards to the Montgomery, MD case, you should mention that while he has the right to set up the antennas, all 4 were over 200ft tall. That subtle part is where even some hams I know start scratching out heads and saying...um...excessive? (If that doesn't get me kicked around nothing will!) That being said, I would love to just have one court case say CCRs are illegal. Neighbors with nothing else to do but boss complete strangers around should find something else to complain about in another locality. Ahh the dreams...

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WA6BFH on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

I don't know how 6 dB's of gain provided for a 100 Watt output provides 1500 Watts ERP.

I think you will find that 100 Watts plus 6 dB's equals 400 Watts ERP

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by W2DUG on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

> C: Totally 100% Non Ham Friendly (No antenna's of anykind, not even indoors, no HT's)

-------------

Are there actually places that restrict indoor antennas and HTs? If so, how is even possible to enforce that? What would be the reason for restricting them in the first place? I thought the problem was really just limited to controlling the cosmetic appearance of the homes.

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by KF7MT on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Take a look at Homes4hams.com The wheel may have already been invented. hihi

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by K7PEH on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Great Idea -- so, who is going to take the lead on this? Maybe Eham needs a volunteer coordinator.

My house, and the neighborhood I live, were built in 1976. A CCR exists but there is no HOA. I have a Traffie mini-beam on a TV mast on the roof of my house plus an 80 meter dipole stretched between some trees but is virtually invisible from the street. I consider myself lucky that I can do that but I am already planning that my next domicile will be at least 10 acres with zero HOA and almost non-existant CCR.

But, I have one other fortunate thing about my neighborhood. One neighbor not far away has a 3-acre plot of land and he moved in and put up his antennas before anyone else lived in the area (35 years ago). He has three towers (oh how I envy his QTH). One tower is about 125 feet with a 6-element Yagi, another tower is about 75 feet with a beam, and the third tower at about 40 feet has a vertical. If anyone is going to complain, they will complain about him and he said that no one has ever complained to him about his antennas in the 35 years he has lived there.

So, it is not all bad. By the way, in the Satellite photos of the neighborhood, you can pick out two of his antennas!

phil
K7PEH

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by W9WHE-II on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

"The whole concept of HOA's is communistic, and it's too bad that our constitution is just a fancy museum piece with no teeth anymore that gives us little defense"

Wow. Another vitcim of public schools!

The constitution (more specifically the Bill of rights) was crafted to protect people from the GOVERNMENT. HOAs and CC&Rs are PRIVATE restrictions. The constitution was never intended to protect people from their own PRIVATE contracts.

W9WHE

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by KD5IVP on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Good idea with a possible downside. If your neighbor happens to type their development's name into Google, Eham's new fourm might just pop up.
"Hey look honey....our neighborhood's been singled out for big ugly CB radio towers!! Over my dead body!" And the brush fires start.
Just a thought ;-)

Paul, KD5IVP

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by KO1D on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Great site and plenty of realtor's in my area. Hmm....now to have the cash....

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by KT0DD on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Quote:"Wow. Another vitcim of public schools!

The constitution (more specifically the Bill of rights) was crafted to protect people from the GOVERNMENT. HOAs and CC&Rs are PRIVATE restrictions. The constitution was never intended to protect people from their own PRIVATE contracts"

W9WHE once again crosses the line between genius and insanity...

If there is a difference between private and public, then why is the govt working so hard to invade and take away our liberties with things like the Patriot act, and why is there always some sort of congressional / government investigation into the actions of private corporations, organizations or institutions?

Although seldom made public (unless 60 minutes, Dateline or someone else gets lucky with a leak) The corporate world makes more decisions (that we don't know about until it's too late) on the course of this country, than are ever made in the White House or Pentagon, (Those decisions are corporate influenced. Just look at all the clandestine corporate meetings that take place all over the world) Halliburtion, Raytheon & others are doing so well in Iraq! Have you watched their stocks lately?

The line between private and public is at best blurred severely, and more likely has been erased altogether. The greedy & powerful are completely out of touch with the common person.

The preamble to the constitution of EVERYONE having the inalienable right of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness means nothing to anyone but the wealthy in todays capitalist world.

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WW0H on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

I've thought about this alot in recent years, especially as I near retirement. Wherever it is, being able to raise a tower and put up antennae is a major concern for me.

I've had a dream of a place called "Ham-ton", a gated community with a central facility that would include, among other things, a cafe/restaurant, fitness equipment and swimming pool, and a "club" station. The dream here is that while we all enjoy radio, who can afford to do all that is possible? I see this club station as having the latest gear, making it possible for all residents of Hamton to try out all modes, all bands (control operator present if needed), etc. What a dream!

My problem has been that they keep giving my Powerball Lottery winnings to someone else - or this would be reality (I would hope).

Anyone else have such a dream? If so, just where should "Hamton" be built?

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WA1RNE on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Instead of a new forum of Ham-Friendly Communities, how about one that concentrates on "Low Profile" antennas?

Low Profile antenna designs have several advantages, especially for folks who don't have covenants to deal with.

Afterall, some hams have SC&R to deal with, otherwise known as Spousal Conditions and Restrictions......

73, Chris

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by GHOSTRIDERHF on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Welcome to Grande Prairie Texas. Learnt the hardway that just becuase TODAY there is no HOA or antenna restrictions in an area does not mean that the local residents can't all rally against you and start one..

of course my existing antennas was grandfathered but NO improvements can be made to them...

The cost to fight this was estimated at 11,000 dollars...

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WA6BFH on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Ah, life in the Ham(p)ton’s !

First I would suggest that you read a book written by the psychologist B.F. Skinner, “Walden Two”. Then start shopping for land in Arizona.

Please tell me where you plan to locate, as I will be sure to keep my 10 acre purchase at least 60 miles away!

73! De John

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by K7PEH on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Wow!

Sitting here at work in front of the computer I realize this incredible idea. I don't know why I did not think of it before.

The solution to all of this is to work for and accomplish what every other person secretly wants -- that is, to be classed as a minority. We can get ham radio operators classed as a sexual minority and thus reap the benefits of our big brother government who will go to all lengths to ensure our freedoms.

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by N6AYJ on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Out in the "sticks" where I live, (unincorporated area of El Dorado County, California, in the Sierra foothills) it is pretty ham-friendly. You can put up whatever you want, even a 200-ft. tower. In fact, we have the opposite problem: there is so little restriction on landowners' rights that people can, for example, keep a lot of junk cars on their property. The 5-acre parcels for sale are usually called "ranchettes". Some mortgage companies don't like to loan money on them because one guy with a junkyard on his land can bring down the value of other peoples' property.

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by KB1JTE on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

I agree with most of the posts here about buyer beware of what Property Sellers, Residential Developments and Real Estate brokers, Do Not know or Do Not tell you about what is allowed or not allowed on the prospective property you wish to purchase. Even if you ask, the Seller and Real Estate agent or broker surely do not want to deal with any issues that may delay selling the property. The Seller and Broker want to get their price / commission and move on. The way to really get the more reliable information is talk to the town / city code enforcement or building permit officials; as they make that decision. Do you get a tower permit or not; how high, etc. Also, I have found that legally even with a title attorney and good title search not all information about restrictive covenants are required to be carried forward in the most recent deed ! Yes, legally once something is converyed or restricted it cannot be taken out unless the town, courts or original person converying that restriction is still the controlling person in a development.

The main problem is the public as a whole is not well informed about what amateur radio operators due or what is necessary to operate with a good signal (towers / antennas). Public officials know even less, as in the law of large numbers most homeowners / buyers / sellers are not licensed ham operators.

Ham radio clubs and individual licensed ham operators need to spend more time on public education, 4 or 5 events per/year are not enough any more. Most people do not sit still long enough to get this information.

Its the old issue of fear of the known and why do we need to make room for it, etc.

When people see first hand what amateur radio is and how it can be an asset to the town / city or protecting them in emergencies; that in many cases makes it more tolerable. The time to do that is not when you are looking to buy that prime lot for your antenna farm.

I feel its worth the time and effort but its hard to get qualifying information. That's just my opinion.

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WA6BFH on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Chris, I suggest that all of your intended antennas be installed under-ground. This will probably cure any Ham difficulties.

You can do this most effectively the next time you install a new lawn. After the old grass has been killed off etc, wires or other manufactured antennas can be buried several inches below ground, covered over, and sod or seed can be planted.

If wife or other problems still persist, use ONLY QRP power levels!

I hope such (light) engineering ideas are helpful to the Ham community at large!

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WA6BFH on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

I meant to spell that as "Lite"

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by N0IU on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

K5UJ Wrote:

“That was mistake no. 1. If there are any CC&Rs at all, don't buy.”

That is a wonderful fantasy. Most of us do not have the luxury of being able to select a home based solely on a hobby. We have to consider other things like our budget, proximity to work (unless you are retired or work from home), if you have children at home, pets, etc.

“Mistake no. 2. Never ask anyone if it is okay for you to put up an antenna.”

PLEASE, I implore the rest of you to NOT follow this one man’s advice. How many of you would invest thousands of dollars on a tower and beams and having a base poured without checking with your neighbors even if there are no restrictions unless you do live “out in the sticks”? Asking them is not ceding control of your property or rights to someone else. Its called being a good neighbor.

Sometimes we just don’t have a choice and we have to make our choices and do the best we can. I am going to tell my wife that we are moving to St. Charles, Illinois so we can live next door to K5UJ where we don’t have to be a good neighbor.

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WB2WIK on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

CC&Rs have to go, and it doesn't matter their wording.

That restrictive covenants don't even mention the word "antenna" means nothing, since causing any problems to anyone is generally covered under the "disturbing the peace" clause, which is painted with a very broad brush. Also, any antenna can be considered an appurtenance that requires approval by an Architectural Committee or similar prior to installation -- those clauses are also painted with very broad brushes.

Any covenant is one too many, and I certainly won't spend a dime on such property.

Good news is, there are covenant-free properties *everywhere.* You just have to take the time to find them, which means avoiding looking at *any* covenant-restricted properties, as even looking at them is a waste of time.

HOAs and covenants will not prevent homeowners from letting junk cars pile up on their properties, any more than municipal ordinance will. It's all a matter of enforcement. I'd rather have police and judges enforce stuff than untrained civilians.

WB2WIK/6

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by KT0DD on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Quote:
"I'd rather have police and judges enforce stuff than untrained civilians."

Bravo! You put it the best of anyone so far.

Nosey Neighbors in HOA's are nothing but wannabe vigilanties! 73.

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by KC0SHZ on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

>>>>don't have this problem here, and I feel for the hams that do, however is it a feeling toward the ham or the equiptment? Strip it all away and I think it's the unsightly equiptment. I know when I move from the city to the burbs, into a nice new home, with all underground utilities and such, large towers, antennas, and wires would not be my first choice.

Nicely put. Come on guys, we all brag about being able to open repeaters from 50 miles away on our HT and brag about setting watt/mile records on QRP, neither of these requires 200 foot tall 20 foot wide log periodics.

We need to say cheers to the folks that can put these antennas up, and hope they have fun with them. We should be viewing this as a challenge to keep our skills sharp. If a tornado or hailstorm hits my place, a big tower is just going to be part of the debris. A wire that can be thrown up is going to part of the rescue. So we can't have big towers, we can still have fun, and we can still go for the personal achievements.

Once I get my General, I am going to start work on a river wire antenna. Part of the game for me is figuring out how to build non-traditional radios and antennas. Would I like to have a big antenna rig to test off of? Sure. Will it break my heart not to have one? Nope, along as there is plenty of river access, and good shallow take off angles, I will be fine.

Montgomery County, MD Case

by WN3R on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Yes there are 4 guyed towers each just under 200 feet to avoid FAA restrictions. This is going to be a contest station for sure. I drove by the other day to see one tower populated. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I certainly beheld! It was a thing of beauty.

At my new QTH on the mountain, my lot is so wooded that I must install a self supporting tower in order to preserve the trees. Based on the required set back of 1:1, the 120 foot tower cannot even be used as a landmark for directions to the house. I sure hope it can be seen from my golf course 4 miles away in the valley.

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WA6BFH on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Arrrrrgh! Here are my serious thoughts on the antenna system that I plan to install at my retirement home at the center of 10 acres of land. For those who are wedded to QRP (not that I’m an A-hole user of QRO) and minimalist antennas -- more power (pun fully intended) to ya! Have fun with the RFI too!

My grand plan includes four 50 foot tall telephone poles, and a 90 foot motorized crank-up tower in the center. Imagine looking down on the letter “X”. The tower goes at the center of the “X”, and each telephone pole is installed at the tip points of the X. The square dimensions of the telephone pole installations will be 150 feet per side. This will allow me to put up any wire antenna that I imagine I will ever want, and VHF stuff up on the tower.

Cities and HOA’s go F yourselves!

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by W9WHE-II on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

KT0DD writes:

"Although seldom made public (unless 60 minutes, Dateline or someone else gets lucky with a leak) The corporate world makes more decisions (that we don't know about until it's too late) on the course of this country, than are ever made in the White House or Pentagon, (Those decisions are corporate influenced. Just look at all the clandestine corporate meetings that take place all over the world) Halliburtion, Raytheon & others are doing so well in Iraq".

Does somebody need another layer of tinfoil under his hat?

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by HAMDUDE on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

This is a great idea. In fact this brings to mind certain communities near me that are built specifically for R/C flyers who also face the problem of finding a place to enjoy their hobby. Whole developments built with R/C flyers in mind that include an airfield right behind the properties for the residents to enjoy. Perhaps some wealthy hams could pool their resources and build ham radio friendly developments that have large back yards for modest tower installations? Of course, you may encounter other problems with too many stations too close together and this would make operating rather difficult. What you would gain by having a tower friendly development would be pretty useless if you had 25 towers all within line of sight causing RF interference to each other. Then again, hams being as resourceful as they are probably could work this out among themselves without the use of HOA types who act like nazi`s.

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by KO1D on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Well if you did this here are some points:

1) HOA would REQUIRE all residents to have a license.

2) One House with 10 acres of land would be the DC to Daylight club station.

3) All residents would be limited to VHF/UHF at home stations for the simplex nets.

4) Neighbors would not allow BPL, but would be required to have 802.11b or better wireless internet capabilities.

4a) 802.11b or better site would be on the main club tower.

4b) Internet access would be the cost for dues in the HOA.

5) Each resident would have to do at least 2 days a year sorting and responding to QSL cards.

6) At least 25% of the residents would have to be electrical engineers, 25% under age 50 so they can climb the towers, and the other 50% with HF privledges so someone can always play control op on 20m.

:)

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WA6BFH on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

The hell if I want other Ham's near me on VHF and above! I don't care if they are only using their cute little VX-1's. I run preamps on my transverters. I don't want anybody beating up my Front-ends with RF!

The idea of the Model R/C guys might make sense. Those guys have investments that are worth them “waiting to use the channel” if one guy has to wait for another guy to finish flying his plane.

This Ham Community thing would simply not work! We would become our own enemies. Geez Louise!

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by N0IU on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

I have seen terms such as "property Nazis" and comments like, "Gee I am sure glad all the decisions regarding my life are handled by the government". Didn't you folks pay attention in history class? There used to be a place just like this called Germany during World War II. Personally, I am glad there are non-professional politicians out there. There are still places like that called China and Cuba where you don't have those annoying little problems of worrying about amateur politicians making laws that affect you. And one contributor called CC&Rs communistic??? Be thankful you live in America!

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by KK9H on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

I am currently the Village President (mayor) of Northfield, IL. I am very happy to report that there is at least one Ham-Friendly community, Northfield. We are a suburb of Chicago with a population of about 5300. Amateur Radio operators with valid licenses are permitted to install antenna towers up to 70 feet here.

73, Don KK9H

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WA6BFH on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Don, can I put up five such towers? I want to install, Yagi's Sturba Curtains, Rhombic and Half-rhombic antennas etc.

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by N3AIU on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

The comments I've seen about making sure your realtor knows about your antenna desires is a good one. My realtor in Flagstaff, AZ worked with me to get me property with minimal antenna restrictions. She knew who to call in city/county government, etc.

73, Nick N3AIU

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by N3AIU on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Also, it helps to be the president of the HOA. In addition to my home in Arizona, I have a Condo in CO. I was shanghaied into being the HOA president, since no one else wanted the job (unusual as far as HOAs go). I put up a somewhat stealthy 160m dipole, and I'm very popular with people who want to put up satellite dishes on the roof.

73, Nick N3AIU

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by K4JF on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Well, I have 2 acres of hilltop in the 'burbs, with no restrictions, a tower, and wires in the trees, near what is quite probably the most culturally rich city of its size in America. Very much a sophisticated and international community. And I'll be selling in about 2 years. Anybody retiring and interested in moving to the Sunny South?

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by N1EY on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

I don't think most of the areas in
my vicinity have any CCRS. I had
never heard of the concept until
I took my test.

Is anyone familiar with CCRS in
the Southeastern MA area? I would
like to avoid the issue entirely.

Thanks
BIll

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by N1EY on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

I don't think most of the areas in
my vicinity have any CCRS. I had
never heard of the concept until
I took my test.

Is anyone familiar with CCRS in
the Southeastern MA area? I would
like to avoid the issue entirely.

Thanks
BIll

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by N1EY on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

:Sometimes we just don’t have a choice and we have to
:make our choices and do the best we can. I am going to
:tell my wife that we are moving to St. Charles,
:Illinois so we can live next door to K5UJ where we
:don’t have to be a good neighbor.

Umm, I think that he has some experience in
litigating the matter. I think that you should
take stock in what K5UJ says. You give power
to someone when you ask. IF they say no, the
"no" shall hunt you afterwards. You might favor
a better chance to proceed without contact
then a negative contact.

I don't think these CCRS are everywhere. I haven't
seen them in my immediate area. I am aware of
some places in Metrowest of Boston. They don't
allow swimming pools or laundry lines. What is
wrong with a swimming pool? OR a Laundry line?
The writers of these restrictions are the same
people that fly to Canada to protest tar oil
projects. ;)

BIll

Bill

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by G3SEA on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Unfortunately in these times one " cannot always have your cake and eat it " :(

It really boils down to your priorities.

Is your hobby more important than your ' dream home ' location ?

If so, are you ( and your family ) willing to accept a less desirable location in order to continue HF operation ?

My solution was to operate EchoLink or IRLP with an HT or a laptop.

Yes I miss HF but these modes are better than nothing as thousands of hams have found out.

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by K9ZF on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

The new forum idea sounds great!

73
Dan

--
K9ZF /R no budget Rover ***QRP-l #1269
Check out the Rover Resource Page at: <http://www.qsl.net/n9rla>
List Administrator for: InHam+grid-loc+ham-books

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WA6BFH on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

In the 'states', IRLP and Echolink will go away when the code requirement is eliminated. No one wants to deal with the hassles of "VOX" controlled radios, and the 'key-up' delays of linked repeater systems.

Echolink will vanish, with the rest of Ham radio soon to follow!

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by NY7Q on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

I have lived in several states. The State of IDAHO is the land of ham haters, HOA lovers. I have heard it stated by the local realestate attorney, "the hell with hams"...Sadly, there is a HOA in ALL subdivision in SW Idaho, and there is no place to purchase a decent home without going into a HOA community. I was given two days to take down my stealth wire antennas, and a vertical recently. Due to many complaints was the reason. I canvassed the entire 85 houses in the subdivision, and NOT ONE person was against my antennas. It turned out that the HOA president/manager is against them. So,,what to do??

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WB2WIK on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

N1EY, CC&Rs prevail in *many* places, including SE MA. Check out any "new" housing being developed on Cape Cod, see what you find. Even places where most homes are older and new construction starts are very limited, like Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard, can and do have CC&Rs.

However, as common as these restrictions are, there is housing and land available *everywhere* without deed restrictions. You just have to find it.

CC&Rs are so common that many realtors figure they're just normal and standard, and won't mention anything about them unless asked -- and even then, they often don't know the facts, so you have to find for yourself whether a property has restrictive covenants or not.

If a subdivision or neighborhood has a "Homeowners Association," there's a strong chance it also has restrictive covenants.

G3SEA, it's not just a matter of giving up great antenna systems in exchange for a better place to live. On the contrary. Restrictive covenants, at least here in the States, usually restrict LOTS of things (antennas being just one, and often not nearly them most important one), including things we should be able to take for granted as unrestricted, such as the color one is allowed to paint one's own home, or the type of letterbox one is allowed to have in front of that home. Or the ability to park one's car in one's own driveway. Or how tall the rose bushes in one's garden are allowed to grow...and on, and on, and on.

And also on the contrary, places having restrictive covenants are not better places to live. It's often just the opposite. The most wealthy neighborhoods in America do not have restrictive covenants.

WB2WIK/6

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WB2WIK on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

NY7Q: Larry, per your bio, you're retiring from ham radio and moving to Missouri.

I'm sorry to hear that! If "CC&Rs" are to blame for your choice, you could have made other choices.

As I've published many times before, it never pays to *look* at properties or subdivisions having CC&Rs, because that's a sure way to "figure" that they all do -- and they don't.

I know a lot of hams in southern ID who have towers and are very active on all bands. They chose, evidently, to live in places that you didn't choose.

Interestingly, regarding Missouri: I think a nice area is the Ozarks of southwestern MO, and because the cost of living there is very low (compared with here!), I considered investing in a home there now, to retire to maybe in 10-12 years from now. I found that almost all construction in the area, although widely detached homes not in subdivisions at all, and almost all on 3 acres of property per home, have CC&Rs. They won't even let you put a boundary fence around your property, or install a basketball court. So much for ever settling there, I ruled it out, permanently.

I can't see investing anything in property I won't enjoy. The basketball goal thing really did it for me, I like playing basketball at home. (And the goal posts make good anchor points for inverted vees...)

WB2WIK/6

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by KT0DD on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Quote:
"Does somebody need another layer of tinfoil under his hat?"

Didn't you hear? Tin Foil doesn't work anymore! The Vogons (in cooperation with General Dynamics) are pumping a new mind control wave thru the milstar system that penetrates anything. Obviously you haven't been properly protected for awhile now anyway or you wouldn't display such mindless drivel in your posts.

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by OTT on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Hi guys...

Bought a 120 year old house 20 years ago and it came with "restrictions" too...

No "bone boiling", "soap making" or the "keeping of animals of offensive character"...

If for some reason I wanted to do "bone boiling" (whatever that is) I would have needed to get a home somewhere else...

Bet the "new" CC&R's done even mention "bone boiling" in these modern communities... a few days of bone boiling or soap making and they might be happy to let you have diple up...

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by K1RFD on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

"In the 'states', IRLP and Echolink will go away when the code requirement is eliminated. No one wants to deal with the hassles of "VOX" controlled radios, and the 'key-up' delays of linked repeater systems."

<g>

But note that about two-thirds of the 89,183 U.S. EchoLink users are General class or above...

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WA6BFH on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

But they won't let you have a double diple!

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WA6BFH on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Hmmmmm, what about a dedicated Echolink on 50.125 MHz.
Do ya think anyone would have the patience to work 6 Meter DX that way? Na, I'll just get a VX5, and start calling CQ!

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by NN6EE on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

HMMMM???

I don't think that there is such a beast as "Ham Radio-Friendly Communities"!!!

Depending upon who one talks to or who one posts to on various Ham Radio websites there's always somebody who takes umbrage in what was said even if it was totally innocuous.

No wonder there's NO "Peace-on-Earth & Goodwill Towards All Men"!!!

Jim/nn6ee

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by W6TH on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities? I am happy you asked.

Why not look into the Free State of New Hampshire.

I am sure you will find all the freedom that our forefathers have done for us.

This state believes in upkeeping the Constitution; framed in 1787, ratified in 1789, and will back you up on the Bill of Rights.

Should I ever run into the CC&R or the HOA, this will be my next move.

LIVE FREE OR DIE. God Bless America, the land of the Brave and the Free.

.: 73, W6TH.

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by K4JF on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

^ I want some of what HE has been drinkin'!!!
|
|

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by WA6BFH on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

I think he was drink'n a Double Diple, I mean a Double Dickle -- on the rocks!

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by KC8VWM on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Due to many complaints was the reason. I canvassed the entire 85 houses in the subdivision, and NOT ONE person was against my antennas. It turned out that the HOA president/manager is against them. So,,what to do??

NY7Q,

Sorry but people like that pi***s me off. I am not a Lawyer but here is what you can do about it and there is not a damn thing anyone can do to change it.

If you decide that you suddenly don't want to be the local HOA doormat anymore then I would suggest you do the following:

1: Exercise your perfect legal right to install a TV antenna on your property. That's right. The FCC allows ANYONE to put up a TV antenna and it preempts all local and state laws, It EVEN preempts all HOA's and Private Covenant agreements!

In short all HOA's are strictly prohibited from restricting you from viewing local programming using a TV antenna located on your home, condo, or balcony. (more later)

Second - Find a structural engineer to certify the installation in case the jerk comes back with some crap about "community safety issues etc."

It will cost a few hundred bucks ,but it's worth it as the price of purchasing an HOA flame-suit will be a much more expensive option later on.

The engineer will arrive and provide you with a diagram of the installation. It will have an official state certification stamp on it. This will mean the entire installation is "safe" (At this point your local HOA Nazi doesn't have a leg to stand on. Simply put, HOA Nazi's are not qualified to dispute the decision of a state certified engineer, unless of course he is one himself.)

3rd - Cut off you cable TV service, or no..better yet you are allowed to keep it as a backup in case your new TV antenna you are about to install suddenly fails. Like perhaps when it suddenly becomes damaged and is detuned from a sudden burst of high winds and it suddenly malfunctions as a resonate 2m/440 receiving TV antenna. However, It might still function in this particualr instance for receiving those stronger local TV stations in your area. Also keep in mind that there are many "different" brands of TV antennas to choose from for your TV antenna installation.

Cable may be required for broadband Internet access anyways, but we don't always have to choose both services. We choose what services we want to pay for in our home. Not the HOA.

Now.... just a little side-note here: It is illegal for any HOA to dictate or "monopolize" which utility service you choose for your home. This includes the choices you make for such utility services as subscribing to a particular cable TV service or any particular Internet service provider you decide to use.

You also have the right NOT to subscribe to any cable TV or broadband service if you so choose. Quite frankly, it's none of their damn business either way.

In short, the utility services will fully support you on this decision. They want to make sure that there are no "monopolies" in any community that might affect "fair competition" laws. If you encounter one call them right away. Remember, utility providers have a helluva lot more money than we do and will fight tooth and nail for your right to choose their services. HOA Nazi's will be running all the way to the bankruptcy lawyers hiding their little tails behind them.

Now you are not going to actually be allowed to have an Amateur Radio antenna in use at your home. (Well, at least not yet!) but if you follow my advice, you WILL see that day coming.

I am not a Lawyer giving legal advice on the subject but I absolutely guarantee that you are not even going to "begin to imagine" the shocking expression displayed on this Nazi's face when you exercise your perfect legal right to have a TV antenna installed on your property to receive local TV signals.

In fact there was one particular case of a person who placed several of them just to prove a point. They consisted of Five television antennas and three satellite dish antennas to several towers and masts to be exact. The antennas apparently provided reception for ten television sets, nine video cassette recorders, and seven satellite receivers.

.... And despite these amazing facts and many complaints from the neighbors, the HOA was struck down dead with a bolt of lightning!

Here is the dirt on this:

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Cable/Orders/1999/da992132.txt

I WONDER HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE FOR THIS NAZI TO CHANGE HIS TUNE AFTER INSTALLING SEVERAL TV ANTENNAS ON YOUR PROPERTY!?

HE WILL BE "BEGGING" YOU TO PUT UP YOUR OLD AMATEUR RADIO ANTENNAS AND TO TAKE DOWN THE TV ANTENNAS ON YOUR PROPERTY.

Remember that your "knowledge" is your leading authority.

Use google to find more on this. Be sure to drown this Nazi with all the paperwork regarding this law you can find. Make him sorry he ever messed with you. Tell all your neighbors to put up TV antennas too!

I can't wait to see the look on this guys face!

Here are a few more places to look:

http://www.hamradio-online.com/1996/aug/fccanten.html

http://www.fiorelaw.com/legal3.htm

http://www.sodac.com/full-arc/fcc.shtml

http://www.schildlaw.com/win02let.htm#L3

You are now armed and ready to deploy your knowledge. Use it to your complete advantage and enjoy you new antenna installation.

73 Charles - KC8VWM

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by K4NR on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Homes4Hams.com was formed in an effort to assist hams in finding Real Estate Professionals and Mortgage Loan Officers who understand the unique needs of amateur radio operators. All Real Estate Professionals and Mortgage Loan Officers listed on the site are licensed amateur radio operators and have real estate or mortgage loan licenses.

http://www.homes4hams.com

73 de Tom, K4NR

Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by K3ZE on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

From John AK3Z: try www.homesforhams.com. I live in Carroll County, Maryland where, unless you live in one of the new sub-divisions, you can put up a tower, verticals, wires, etc. A majority of the homes in the county were built on tracts that were originally farm land. Most of the sub-divisions that are 20 or so years old usually don't have antenna restrictions.

Our home is 17 yrs. old and I checked on any CC&R's. There were (are) none. There is a new development about a quarter of a mile up the street and except for the 18" satellite dishes, antennas are not allowed. However, you can junk up your yard (as about 90% of them are)with trampolines, gazebos, kid's play sets, swimming pools, playhouses, ugly fences, huge decks that look like something built by the Swiss Family Robinson, and rock climbing walls, but an almost invisible wire or ground mounted vertical? Forget it, Sparky.

While I don't have the problems that some of our fellow Hams do, I can sympathize with them. I've also donated to the ARRL's effort to combat CC&R's.

Good luck.

73 Al K3ZE

RE: Where are the Ham-Friendly Communities?

by K6ALF on January 24, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Most all new develpments include CC&R's here in the
Republic of California. Most dont have HAO's thou unless you are in a gated community.

I was lucky 8 years ago to buy a home in a new development in San Jose. It had no CC&R's believe it
or not. Sad to have to move out of it thou.. It'll
be up for sale soon :-) ..

I agree, only way to truely enjoy the hobby with no
restrictions is to move out to the sticks like N6AYJ,
WA6BFH and others have stated. Or, to older
neighborhoods if working on fixer-uppers is your kick.

But I chose to by new and remain married instead :-) ..

TonyF

RE: Where are the Ham-F