Hamfest Attendance Prizes
Tom McTigue (N0YD)
on
February 26, 2005
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I like Hamfests. I like to see all the "stuff" for sale. I like to try to sell some of my "stuff". I like to see all the radios on display by the manufactures. I like to meet hams I already know and hams I've talked to but never met.
And I like the attendance prizes, most donated by ham radio manufacturers. I've never won one, but I like the idea of attendance prizes. My idea of "Attendance Prizes" is that they are given out to "Attendees." If someone is not present when his or her name is called, then the prize is set aside to the end of the Hamfest when new tickets are drawn until an attendee comes forward to claim the prize "AND" ALL PRIZES are given away.
I also think that's the way the Ham radio manufacturers intended for the prizes to be handled.
Recently, I attended a Hamfest where the unclaimed "Attendance Prizes" were kept by the local organizing club(s) for door prizes for their own ham club instead of being given away at the end of the Hamfest. There was a large group of die-hard hams who had stayed to the bitter end of the Hamfest in hopes of winning one of the unclaimed "Attendance Prizes." The organizers called a few names at the end of the Hamfest without anyone claiming the prizes. Then they announced that no more names would be called since it might "take too long." When asked by one of the hams about the unclaimed "Attendance Prizes", the organizer said that they would keep the unclaimed attendance prizes for their own club.
A simple and successful procedure would have been to collect the ticket stubs from all the hams present at the end of the Hamfest, put them in a different wire barrel, and start picking names out of the new barrel. Each ticket would have been a winner and they would have given away the remaining prizes in a very short time. Everyone would have been happy including the manufactures who donated the prizes.
What do you think?
Tnx and 73,
Tom, N0YD
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Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by KB9YUR on February 26, 2005
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Frankly, I would like to see a lot less of these attendance prizes and much better
radios and equipment for sale. It seems that with each passing Hamfest I attend, there's
less quality and more junk for sale. At one hamfest, the actual prizes were better then
most of the 'stuff' for sale.
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Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by K4EQ on February 26, 2005
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Your solution to the problem is a good one. I agree it was in poor taste to keep them for the club, since one of the reasons for the give-aways to to draw people to the event. I don't think the organizers crossed an ethical barrier, but they certainly made a poor decision which could hurt them in the future. --Dale, K4EQ
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Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by N3DRK on February 26, 2005
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I agree with KB9YUR. Forget those little prizes and give away radios, antennas, etc. The hamfests are saturated with those cheap little handhelds. Award some nice hf radios like the good old days.
I disagree with Tom, N0YD. As long as one pays for his/her ticket they should not have to be in attendance to win the prize. Things come up in our personal lives that causes non attendance. Some people cannot stay the entire day on their feet due to age or some handicap.
73s
John
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by KD4AC on February 26, 2005
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I don't know if you should have to be in attendance to claim a prize. My friends and I used to make the yearly trek to Ft. Tuthill near Flagstaff, AZ each summer for the Hamfest held there. We always made a point to be there on Friday and Saturday morning. By noon we'd usually had enough of looking at the same junk that was for sale at the Hamfest the year before and would go sight-see around Flagstaff or the Grand Canyon. I don't see why I should have to hang around a Hamfest all day just to claim a prize that I have a very small chance of winning in the first place. On a side note, I remember going to "Icom Days" at HRO in Phoenix a few years back. They were giving away attendance prizes. My friends and I had all put in our tickets and waited. Seconds before the drawing, an older HAM who had been there all morning, suddenly decided to enter the drawing. His was the last "ticket" dropped in the coffee can. The guy from HRO didn't even shake the can and they had some kid pull out the "winning ticket." Guess who's ticket got pulled?
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by KV4BL on February 26, 2005
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Hi Tom. I agree with you that this was very wrong of the club to keep the prizes. Also, not that it would have made it any more right if they'd done better, but their excuse for doing so because of time was pitifully transparent. One thing I do differ slightly with you on is that I believe that the prizes should be awarded to the drawn winners whether present or not. The person paid for a ticket and supported the event, therefore he or she should be eligible for the prize whether they could attend or not. Also, while we are on the topic, what gives with so many of these hamfests nowadays which advertise "prizes" or "door prizes" but don't specify what the prizes are. If they don't know what the prizes are when the brochures are printed or the ads taken out in magazines, at least have the motivation to post this information on the fest website once it is known. It might make a difference as to whether or not I feel like it is worth my while to purchase a ticket. One of the biggest ones in my region has grown incredibly slack about this. All they say for the last couple of years is a "two meter mobile" or "hf base" for the prizes. C'mon, guys, you can do better than this in the information department. Additionally, would also be nice to know if they are the "must be present to win" type of club or one of the nicer ones that mail you the prize if you are not. 73, Ray KV4BL
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by WD8WV on February 26, 2005
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I agree about the poor excuse for not giving the rest of the prizes away. But, was this the hourly or major prizes? If it was a major prize, this was wrong for them to do. But if it was the hourly door prize, I understand somewhat the frustration with reaching in and calling names and no one being there to win the door prize. I agree that maybe those who remained for the close of the hamfest should give their stubs and have them drawn to get rid of the remaining door prizes.
Most hamfests that I have been to have always been small events. The organization sponsering the hamfest is usually a small organization. I understand that the hourly or half hour door prizes that are given out that you should be present to win. That is the whole thinking of the hourly door prize. Any event that I have been to whether amateur radio or a church event, that is how it is set up.
Our organization is getting ready for our hamfest tomorrow. All the years I have helped with the hamfest the hourly or half hour door, depending on the amount of prizes collected, was setup that you had to be present to win. The major prize drawings was always set up that you do not have to be present to win. If your name was drawn for a major prize and you were not present then the prize would be shipped to you.
The one comment made about the stuff at the hamfest for sale, well with most small dealers shutting down, it is harder and harder for a small hamfest to get a dealer to show up for a hamfest. None of the big named dealers want to attend a hamfest that only has 300 to 600 hams show up. So you can't blame the organization for not having dealers show up for the hamfest. Blame our society, for forcing the small dealers shutting down. We as hams are to blame, instead of supporting our local small dealer, we get on the Internet and order it from some big outfit. So we are the cause for the fall of the small dealers.
I have experienced this first hand, I have help organize our local hamfest for 7 years. I have seen all this.
Just my two cents.
Juddie WD8WV
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by WB2HIF on February 26, 2005
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I attended this particular hamfest with Tom, N0YD along with several other members of our 20 Meter net.
This is what I would consider a major event and is attended by a myriad of well known manufacturers of ham equipment. If these prizes have been donated by the exhibitors then it is my opinion that they should have been raffled off by the method given in several comments on this forum ie:collect all the remaining tickets of the persons who stayed to the end. From my observation it seemed there were only a hundred or so people waiting to see if they would win a prize and it would not take "all day" as stated by a sponsering club member.
Thanks Tom, see you on the net!
I rest my case,
Art WB2HIF
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Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by W1ITT on February 26, 2005
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Tom... My pals K1RQG and W1GWU and I have run the Hosstraders hamfest, New England's largest, for a third of a century now. We have a policy of "must be present to win." And that is stated and adhered to. Any other entity that wants to undertake the considerable trouble to run a hamfest should be able to award prizes as they choose, so long as the policy is clearly stated. We have an internal policy of not allowing ourselves to put our tickets (and yes, we buy tickets to get into our own hamfest!) into the barrel. The instance you mentioned where a hamfest committee intercepted prizes doesn't speak well for the integrity of their process. The "must be present" rule has the advantage of transparency. If people can actually see a person claiming a prize, they have much more confidence in the system.
Our prizes are mostly bought and paid for by the Hosstraders hamfest. We don't beg or coerce vendors into "donating," although we gratefully accept unsolicited donations. It's asking a lot, especially of the smaller events, to come up with big prizes, so people shouldn't complain if they win "only" a 2m HT.
The main point is though, that if you want to decide how to run a hamfest, you have to step up to the plate and run one. It isn't easy, and the economics aren't conducive throwing money around. And there are always a bunch of guys who are ready to tell you how inadequate your efforts are!
73 Norm W1ITT
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by X-WB1AUW on February 26, 2005
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"..they would keep the unclaimed attendance prizes for their own club."
As long as every member bought a ticket, and was there during the drawing, no problem. Otherwise, a lame excuse to abscond with the prizes.
Hope you let the club know that next time you'll pass on their scam. And, let the companies who donated gear that the club is keeping it.
73
Bob
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Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by K9NW on February 26, 2005
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Slightly off topic but still hamfest prize related: What is the general feeling about offering coupons ($100, 200, 500, whatever) for **HIGH END** products? Are you likely to go out and spend another 6K just because you won a $250 coupon toward and Alpha 87A? Would you rush out for an IC7800 just because you won a $500 coupon toward the purchase of one? It seems that unless one is already in a position to purchase one of the high end toys, the prize is hardly worth more than the paper it's printed on. Thoughts?
73, Mike K9NW
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Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by WA2JJH on February 26, 2005
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The "Door prize" has never been a draw for me.
It has been the quality of the used ham radio and test equipment.
Unfortunitly Ebay has diluted the quality of what is for sale.
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by KX8N on February 26, 2005
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So if you paid to get in, just like everyone else, but didn't have a whole day to kill sitting around waiting for your name to be drawn, then you don't deserve to win the prize?
An attendance prize is for those who attended the hamfest - not just for those who stay for the duration. If I was there for an hour, as opposed to 6 hours, I still attended. I paid the same amount of money that anyone else paid to get in, so I still deserve to win as much as anyone else.
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by K4JSR on February 26, 2005
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In Georgia the law states that one *HAS* to be present
to win a door prize. Yes, I know that many hamfests
in Georgia don't obey the law, but I do remember when
the hamfest that now meets in Lawrenceville, Ga., was
held at Stone Mountain Park. Stone Mountain is a State Park. Park Police and State Revenue Agents descended and not only stopped the prize drawings, they went into the flea market and demanded sales taxes! It wasn't long after that when the hamfest moved to Lawrenceville, Ga., and has been fat, dumb and happy ever since.
I have been attending hamfests for 50 years + and
have never won anything that wasn't a general give-away. But then I could buy 99 out of 100 tickets and
still lose! My attitude has become BAH! HUMBUG! to
all prize drawings, therefore anything that happens
at a hamfest drawing matters not. After all, with my
luck it just does not matter!
I still enjoy hamfests because I get to see old friends, make new friends, attend a forum or three,
buy some of that junk so I can sell it at the next hamfest, and most importantly -- get to see how long
I can go before having a "Right Guard blow-out"!
To say it in a few words, hamfest prizes hold no attraction to me. I never win, so why get worked up?
73, Cal K4JSR
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by WA6BFH on February 26, 2005
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I tend to avoid these prize give-a-way, ticket drawing events. To me such activity is just not what Ham radio is or should be about. I could be wrong though. Maybe they should do as you suggest, and also limit the prizes to the top brand 40 channel radios and biggest leeniers!
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by WA4DOU on February 26, 2005
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Who am I to be critical of how a hamfest is run? It seems to me that we have far too many folks today with opinions on a lot of things that aren't any of their businss. The marketplace will decide.
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Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by WIRELESS on February 26, 2005
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Door prizes are generally the biggest joke of all and most are fixed. Most door prizes (not just at ham events) are won by the owners son or daughter mostly using phoney names. Who's going to check if the announced winner is some how associated with the store that sponsers door prizes.
Who said "a sucker is born every millisecond"?
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by K9DRG on February 26, 2005
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I agree that all day attendance should not be required. I like to get there early some don't. JMHO
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by K4MTR on February 26, 2005
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Dayton has the best policy. The hourly prizes are must be present to win in the drawing on Sunday. The majors aren't. If a hamfest committee member wins, the club buys another one for them and they redraw. Keeping them for the club is unconscionable unless they purchased the items with club funds, and even then retaining the prize is a questionable practice.
I'd actually like to see the "door prize" phenomena discontinued. I don't really like to see part of my hamfest ticket go to purchase prizes.
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by WA2JJH on February 26, 2005
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Besides, who in their right mind would want to win a DOOR as a prize!!!
How the F%^*^*) am I going to fit a door in a car!
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by WA2JJH on February 26, 2005
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Wireless, I see variations of that. What happens is that one dude gets 200 tickets for free. He will buy 2 tickets to make it look kosher!
I am NEVER suprised when I see the "popular" dude wins the grand prize.
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by N1DL on February 26, 2005
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Tom,
I agree with you that the organizing club should not have pocket-vetoed the prizes and then kept them for their own club. I would have thought the Orlando folks would have more class.
On the question of actual physical presence of a winner - I don't think that should be required for the top 3 prizes.
It doesn't cost much to ship a few boxes and if necessary the winner can be asked to foot the transportation bill.
73 see you on the bands
Karl N1DL
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by K4JF on February 26, 2005
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I agree with KX8N. The prizes should be shipped to the winner.
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by W9OY on February 26, 2005
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Doesn't much matter to me, I already got a flashlight.
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by WA4MJF on February 26, 2005
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Gee, I gotta post after that dumb ass
Russian again (I'm begining to think
they're NO better than Soviets, but he
is probably a commie anyhow, as I think
party members only got ham tickets),
oh well, I ran the
RARSfest for many, many moons.
The club BUYS the prizes, ICOM used to
give us a discount on the dealer price,
but ICOM America cut that out in the
early 90s. Best we got was dealer price.
The top three prizes, usually a high end HF
rig, high end dual bander (VHF/UHF) and something
I forget, were shipped to the winners, if not
present. The hourly prizes were drawn and the
winners posted and if not claimed rebverted to the club for drawings at our monthly meetings.
All our members, including me, bought a RARSfest
ticket and if we won we won. I don't recall any
of the higher ups on the RARSfest committee ever
winnning anything, but some fo the "grunts" did
occasionally.
73 de Ronnie
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on February 26, 2005
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Everyone knows that most of the prizes are rigged as previous posters have mentioned.
The trick for the club to keep most of the prizes themselves is simply make sure that the ticket numbers of the prizes are called out are never handed out to anyoe or to hand them out to people in the club itself.
About 5 years ago I remember hearing that one of the winning HF radios was won by the daughter of the Orlando Hamfest organizer himself. How convienient!!!
The only suckers are those of you that buy extra tickets!!!
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by N0EW on February 26, 2005
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For my part I'd prefer there be no door prizes purchased by the organizing group. If vendors wished to donate, fine, but I suspect that'd end quickly if those funding the hamfest didn't buy door prizes.
I'd rather have a $1 or $3 knocked off the entry fee. This way everyone "wins"! However this is only my opinion, and a minority one at that.
Even the one (two?) hamfests I have chaired we paid for door prizes. We also had vendors graciously donate goods for giveaway. Small hourly prizes required the person to be present. It is not uncommon for people that know the winner to yell to them in the parking lot calling them back inside. The 'big' prize did not require the person to be present. One of the persons running the hamfest would box, wrap, and ship this prize the week following the hamfest. An additional cost to the organizing group.
As for integrety, it will naturally vary, but I'd suspect most hamfests are quite honest. I seriously doubt ballot stuffing happens with any frequency. Sounds like sour grapes to me!
Mailing every single door prize? Are you nuts!?! Are _you_ going to do the boxing, looking up the addresses (most hams just scribble their calls, providing no address/phone number, and you can barely read the call), and take your free time to travel to the post office?
If not, your opinion is of zero value.
For those of you that don't like the way a hamfest is run, organize your own. You won't like the result because no matter how hard you try you will do a number of things wrong, and you'll hear all about your severe failings for years upon years.
Bottom line: those that do the work get to make the rules! Don't like it? See the preceding paragraph!
73-Erik n0ew
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Club was wrong
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by WB4M on February 26, 2005
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1. I think you should be able to win even if you are not present. I can rarely make a day out of a hamfest; I go, browse, perhaps buy something, and leave. I don't want to hang around 4 or 5 hours to the end in hopes of winning a prize.
2. The club was dead wrong to keep the prizes! Offering prizes, then keeping them sounds almost illegal, hi. It reminds me of an event I attended years ago, and a "door prize" was offered. It was a car stereo, and you had to be present to win. The hosts put off the drawing until about 3AM! They made darn sure everyone was gone except for their friends, then had the drawing to make sure one of their buddies won the prize! You situation sounds very similar in tactics.
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by K8MHZ on February 26, 2005
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Wow!!
Sure looks like everyone saw through the great hamfest door prize scam.
And there are those that poke fun at our intelligence.
Can ya believe it?
Alright, I am sure that there is no such things as 100% honesty, but this thread boarders upon unmitigated paranoia!
And the Russians are coming too??
Gimmee a break.
And you guys passed tests? ;)
73,
Mark K8MHZ
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by N1VLQ on February 26, 2005
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I guess I sure am lucky to live out in the sticks, where the rigged-door-prize scam apparently hasn't made it to yet.
While I don't go to every 'fest, I've been to enough out here in the woods of Maine to know that the clubs sponsoring them are quite ethical. Many times I've seen folks who just happened to "driving through" win prizes, or folks that I know personally, who have no association with the clubs from which they won.
It sure must be terrible to have to think the worst of everyone and everything. Or maybe we're just better off out in the country. I simply refuse to belive that "ALL" door prize drawing are rigged. And a damn sorry state we're in were that to be true...
All I know is that if you go to the hamfests here in Maine, it's quite likely that your ticket will have as much a chance as the next guys.
As for the topic itself, I think it was in poor taste for the club in question to keep the prizes, but as others have said, they were the ones running it, so I suppose it's their call. I would certainly voice my displeasure with them, if I had attended that 'fest, and would probably let them know that their questionable practice has cost them a customer for the next year. And that bad news tends to travel fast...
Personally, I'm in favor of having to be present to win the prize, in most cases. For those who are crying about having to wait around all day, toughen up, buttercup. Most small hamfests give out their door prizes at noon or 1PM, (at least the ones I'm aware of) so if you can't make it 'till then (and keep yourself occupied with the flea market, vendors, displays, or simply talking to other hams) maybe you shouldn't be worrying about winning any door prizes.
And no, I've never won anything at a hamfest, either, save for a flashlight (like someone else previously noted). But I always have fun digging my ticket out and hoping for the best.
Have some fun, people. Life is too short, and too worrysome already, without creating more stress.
73
Bruce, N1VLQ
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by K4JF on February 26, 2005
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<Who said "a sucker is born every millisecond"?>
You're the first that I ever heard.......
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by K4JF on February 26, 2005
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<Everyone knows that most of the prizes are rigged as previous posters have mentioned.>
No, everyone doesn't. I have worked with a number of hamfests and been to many others in my 30 years in the hobby. I've never heard of such, and I know darn well it doesn't happen in our local one.
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by KC8VWM on February 26, 2005
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I think they should give away those Icom models as first prize.
:)
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by N1ZZZ on February 26, 2005
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If you have 500 tickets in a barrel and there are only 50 or so people left at the end of the fair, you would spend hours trying to find the stubs of the remaining people to redraw just those tickets. The only options that are viable are to reissue new tickets to the remaining people or keep drawing new numbers until someone in the audience wins. The later is the method I have seen.
As far as keeping the prizes for the club, are you sure that they gave the radios away to club members for personal use, or did they keep the prizes to be used for the same purpose the next year?
Maybe I haven't been around enought hamfests, but every one I have have seen have seemed to be a pretty straight laced. I have seen winners from the ranks of the local hams as well as more distant hams.
73 DE N1ZZZ
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by KG6AMW on February 27, 2005
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Quote, "We have a policy of "must be present to win." Why? People are busy and make efficient use of their time. Standing around to see if you won a prize is quite frankly dated and quick way to negate the purpose of the prize which was to encourage attendance in the first place. Why not just have phone numbers on the tickets and give those who win 24 hours to pick up prizes before the "club bottom feeders" come in.
KG6AMW
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on February 27, 2005
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Your missing the point of all of this -- the crooked clubs are extremely happy with the way these hamfests are giving out prizes -- the club memebers spend all this time and effort in organizing the event and expect some form of retribution (ie Free radio gear)
Its funny, but in al these posts I have failed to see someone say "hey I won the grand prize or at least one of the bigger prizes"....
Its rigged -- its crooked -- and those that say that they have been running clubs for x amount of years and the prize giveaways are fair -- are either naive or lying -- cause you ask any club who the winner of the grand prize was and I beat you a donut that somehow its related to one of their members...
what i think would be fair and you would never see is a sign that says that "memeers of the club, their family or associated personnel are not elgible for this contest"....
but then again -- they will just make sure their daughters boyfriend wins it ..haha
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by N1VLQ on February 27, 2005
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Again, Ghostrider, I say BUNK.
I have personally seen the winner of the St. Albans (Maine) hamfest win, someone I know personally, I know for a fact that he isn't involved with that club.
I have been at the Bangor (Maine) hamfest and seen people from either Nova Scotia or new Brunsiwck (I forget which) win the prize, and they didn't know a soul at the 'fest. They were passing through. They stayed, and enjoyed the company and the camraderie (sp?) and ended up winning. And continuing on the trip quite pleased.
These stories are not unique, they have happened over and over again. I have heard the stories about the winners of other 'fests, and I know the people running some of these 'fests. I will vouch for their integrity. I'm sorry you cannot say the same about the folks who run the 'fests where you live.
I'm not naive, and I'm not lying. In fact, it becomes a bit insulting to have my friends and associates grouped together with those who are less than honest.
Use a bit smaller brush when painting that picture, there are honest people and clubs "out there". Or at least "out here."
73
Bruce, N1VLQ
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by WA4MJF on February 27, 2005
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Bruce, always remember and don't
forget, that those posters who refuse
to hang their ID out with their posts
are only doing so to prevent being
called to the field of honor to
defend their words/actions.
Pay them the attention they're
worth, none.
If they do ID like, the RU1 (prefix
for the part of Russia in Europe) who
seems to have a some command of the
American language and hits the
Vodka too much, just acknowledge
then for what they are and move on.
I think that, since he has some
knowledge of our tongue and has
a ham ticket, means that he probably
was more than the run of the mill
(vodka :-) )Soviet commie.
73 de Ronnie
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Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by KG4YJR on February 27, 2005
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The XYL insisted that we put our tickets in the Orlando hamfest raffle bin otherwise I wasn't even going to bother with it. It was also free as it was part of our admission ticket. Sometimes I buy extra tickets for a raffle at a hamfest or another type of event but not with the hopes of having a better chance of winning, but to help out a good cause or something I support anyways.
73
Dave
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by W1ITT on February 27, 2005
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I'm sorry that the person who hides behind the nickname "ghostrider" seems to have called me a liar. I stand behind my earlier assertion that "must be present to win" policies have an advantage in that the crowd sees exactly who wins...and they see the person actually receive the prize. It's the ultimate in accountability when you have a thousand or so people watching how the drawing is held. While I understand the complaint of those who must leave before the drawing, I still want everything to be open and done without smoke or mirrors.
I often see posts in the hamfest forum lamenting the lack of hamfests as more organizers tire of the work. It's easy to "run" a hamfest if all one does is sit on the sidelines and snipe at those who are putting forth the effort. I challenge those who feel they have a better idea to pick a date, location, and format. And clearly state your prize policies beforehand. Then see if you have what it takes to put on a successful hamfest and show us old fogeys just what you're really made of!
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by LNXAUTHOR on February 27, 2005
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- door prizes are nice, but an administrative burden...
- however, if winning requires a name, call, and address/phone on the draw ticket then the prize should be mailed, and being present at the drawing should not be required... (it's not hard to imagine, in today's litigious society, that at sometime some ham will challenge a fest's door prize rules if the rules don't coincide w/county or state regs)...
- i believe nearly all clubs running door prize draws at fests are honest - it's a lot of work to put together a fest!
- of course, this comes from someone who has never won a door prize in his life!
- i go to fests for the atmosphere, along with being armed with a shopping list!
:-)
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Publish winners list
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by WB4M on February 27, 2005
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If you are going to give away prizes to those not in attendance, why not publish a list of winners and post it on the internet somewhere? This way the suspicious hams could verify the prizes were actually given away and to whom, and see if the person was a member of the sponsoring club.
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by WC0V on February 27, 2005
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At the hamfest I have been associated with for more than fifteen years, the policy is that committee members are NOT eligible for any major prizes. Winners not need be present to win. All major and hourly raffle prizes are purchased by the club, sometimes at a discount but always purchased. Only donations we get nowadays are obsolete mousepads.
Major prizes and hourly raffle prizes are awarded on the basis of ticket stubs drawn from rotating ticket barrels. Hourly prizes are awarded on the basis of separately purchased raffle tickets. Raffle prizes must be claimed within the hour to be won. If not claimed, they go back into the mix for the next raffle. All unclaimed raffle prizes are awarded to raffle ticket holders at the end of the day.
The practice described at the beginning can only ruin the reputation of the sponsoring club and any of their events. I would be excessively polite in describing their action as shortsighted.
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to Ghostrider
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by WB4M on February 27, 2005
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Its funny, but in al these posts I have failed to see someone say "hey I won the grand prize or at least one of the bigger prizes"....
OK, Ghostrider, I was with a fellow ham from my hometown who won 1st prize (an Icom HF Xcvr) at the Charlotte, NC hamfest. Neither he nor I were members of the Charlotte club, we drove 120 miles to get there. No affiliation with the Charlotte club at all.
Sorry to burst your bubble!!!
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RE: to Ghostrider
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by K4JF on February 27, 2005
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Last year my table was directly behind the club booth at a hamfest. I watched as people dropped in their tickets, and as someone (who was not related to the hamfest committee) pulled the winning tickets from the middle of the thoroughly mixed up basket. NO WAY was it possible to rig that one. Sorry, GR, what you say might be true for one hamfest somewhere, but is definitely not the case in the overwhelming majority of hamfests, based on my 30 years experience at literally hundreds of hamfests.
While I would prefer shipping prizes to winners, if the "must be present" rule is in the flyer, then it is eminently fair to follow that rule.
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Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by KC8VWM on February 27, 2005
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It is my understanding that most of the prizes given away at hamfests are donated by vendors for the sake of free publicity.
I don't feel clubs have any affiliation with these prizes other than the fact that they give them away. (Not that I ever won anything)
I attend hamfests based on the idea of enjoying myself, not expecting to win something. Besides, the hotdogs aren't that bad either. (OK, maybe I'm stretching it a bit, but I promise that I shower and wear deodorant to each hamfest I attend.)
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by KB1KIX on February 27, 2005
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Man... the whining on this topic is unbelievable!!!
Plain and simple, if a club has a fest - and there are prizes - I listen for my ticket number when I'm there. If it isn't called by the time I leave, no big deal - I didn't win.
At the end of the day - if the prizes weren't won, I really don't waste my time on the issue. I ran a talk in table for a club, and also had to pull tickets for the prizes - I literally called a dozen and a half names - at some point - you just have to give up.
To actually think you're going to have a bunch of people get in line at the end of the day - draw tickets over again is a joke. Most people working at the fest are volunteers. At this point - it's time to go home - and I'd be damned if I'm going to tell them - wait - we need to have another drawing and redistribute tickets.
This is another example of how some hams will find ANY excuse to whine about something.... anything.
Maybe it's just me, but all this effort could've gone into writing an article to teach some new ham, or kid how to do something in our hobby, rather than just show them that we are a bunch of ornery old curmudgeons!
Jonathan
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by AH6GI on February 27, 2005
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"the club memebers spend all this time and effort in organizing the event and expect some form of retribution (ie Free radio gear)"
This makes no sense. First of all, this isn't 1963. Radios are cheap. Instead of a KWM-2 costing a half year's salary, an entry ICOM is more like a week's pay.
The hourly prizes are things like Handbooks, 2 meter magmounts, nice to have but I can't imagine a club scamming the public out of these items.
"Here's the plan, we all stand around for 10 hours in the sun and split the booty at the end, 4 Handbooks, a magmount, and a 12 V power supply, you in?"
Many hamfests around here pull tickets until a winner comes up. There isn't a prize left over.
While I would not mind winning a "big" prize, I don't need another radio. I go to the hamfests for the exercise of walking the tailgate section, to paw over the boatanchors, have a couple pit beef barbecues.
de ah6gi/4
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by AA4PB on February 27, 2005
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Ghostrider is full of boloney. I've attended numerous hamfests where the winners of the prizes (including the grand prize) were not members of the club and were not even from the local area. Of course there are probably exceptions, but for the most part everything is on the up and up.
Most of the hamfests I've attended require you to be present for the hourly prizes (because they aren't worth the effort to ship) but not for the main prize.
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by AD7DB on February 27, 2005
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Most of the conventions I've been to did it this way, the hourly prize winners were listed on a board and had to show up by noon Sunday to claim their prize. After that, they clear the board.
Then the major prize(s) are drawn for. On those, the winner need not be present to win.
Then they hold a drawing to get rid of the unclaimed prizes. (The previous major winner, if he's there, gets in on this too). They keep drawing tickets and give that person 5-10 seconds to shout that they are there. If not, that ticket goes to the trash. If someone IS there, they get that prize, AND their ticket goes BACK IN again!
Eventually the remaining tickets are winnowed down to those actually THERE. The giveaway speeds up toward the end.
In this way it's possible for folks to: A: win something, perhaps several prizes, and B: they don't get the shaft if they got a cheap prize because they are STILL able to maybe win a bigger one as well.
The unclaimed giveaway drawing typically takes an hour. But on Sunday many attendees have gone home anyway. I always stay. It's paid off a few times!
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by AD7DB on February 27, 2005
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Here is a page I did in 2000 about the convention I went to in Scottsdale. The prize drawing portion is near the end.
http://www.qsl.net/ad7db/p2kswdc.html
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Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by N4ADO on February 27, 2005
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I agree with Tom 100% about this.
The whole thing was mismanaged in my opinion.
The hourly prizes should have been given away to the attendees. If they weren't, then this is Fraudulant in my book. BTW, I never saw anything which stated what any of the prizes were. Also, every hamfest I have ever been to, announced the winning tickets over the PA system. This was not done.
Another thing I'd like to mention the foolishness
of having the Hidden Transmitter (FOX) hunt inside
the building, in the flea market area. Apparently
the transmitter was hidden under a table near ours.
What happened was that you had several IDIOTS running aroung in the flea market area waving aroung 2 meter yagis, looking for the FOX. It was a miracle that someone didn't get their eye "Put Out" because of this. All Fox hunts should be held OUTSIDE of the
building and should be stated in the rules before the contest is begun.
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Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by N9AVY on February 28, 2005
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A few years ago I won $100 cash prize from the DeKalb (IL) hamfest. I had left before final drawing and they mailed me a check. Didn't know any of those who organized hamfest either and I had only one ticket.
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by N4VOX on February 28, 2005
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by KC8VWM on February 27, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
It is my understanding that most of the prizes given away at hamfests are donated by vendors for the sake of free publicity.
______________________________________________
You don't have a very good understanding then. Almost all of the prizes are bought out of the club funds. The big 3 will sell one radio at a discount to be given as the prize.
I was on the hamfest committee for several years. We spent 6 months working to get ready, and then when the hamfest starts we never got a chance to see what was theree. Spent most of the time listening to complaints. So I don't begruge any club using the unclaimed prizes for club give-a-ways, they paid for them.
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Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by WA2JJH on February 28, 2005
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The Shriners that conduct the ol DEERFIELD hamfest run a good fest. No funny business there. It used to be huge.
Yes, I do agree that indoor foxhunts should be punishable by Portosan Prison.
You go to have fun. I never expect to win the door prize. I get my own prizes by tranforming into seek and buy mode.
You have to be early. Cause the early worm gets the bird(wattmeter). Always be ready to move on when there is a feeding frenzy of hams over one piece of equipment. Be friendly and nice.
Never say.....I will give you X dollars for that.
Better way. Hello..how are you. How much do you need for that? Ohhh(too high)we are not far off.
Would ya be mad if I made an offer?
I dont need no stinking door prizes!!!!!
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by W8RCA on March 1, 2005
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Once again people upset because they might miss out on a "free lunch"....get a life here fellas. I go to swaps to buy and or sell or to visit with friends. If I want to buy a lottery ticket I'll buy one at the local party store. The I deserve to win something mindset is one of the things that is making this hobby a pain in the butt to many of us. Grow up do away with door prizes completely and lower the gate price by a buck or two and see if anybody gripes. My guess is nobody will.
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by KA7RRA on March 1, 2005
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I have been to a lot of ham-fest in my 20 yrs of being a ham and I have never felt that the drawings where rigged I think it is a bunch a bull
Dave
KA7RRA
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by KC8VWM on March 1, 2005
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N4VOX says,
"Almost all of the prizes are bought out of the club funds."
"So I don't begruge any club using the unclaimed prizes for club give-a-ways, they paid for them."
This practice might give someone attending a hamfest, who was hopeful of winning a prize, the wrong impression.
This might explain why some people come to the conclusion that the prize winnings are "rigged" when a club member "walks out" with the remaining prize winnings and taking them home after no claim.
Perhaps, the truth of the matter may be in the fact that the prize winnings or club policies regarding unclaimed prizes may be largely misunderstood.
73
Charles - KC8VWM
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Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by WA2JJH on March 2, 2005
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Wish they would workon the quality of the food at hamfests.
What are the chances of a Salad bar......ha ha ha ha ha.
How about Protein shakes for those of us that care
about lean muscle mass.
How about Lomotil, Immodium, or isonopeconate vendors. Take 2 and you will not have to use a Portosan for 8-12 hours!
Deodorant vendors welcome too!
A quality of life committee. I almost got sick being drenched in Dayton on Saturday(it always rains and Saturdays) We all spend Saturday under Mendlesons tent.
We dont need no stinking door prizes
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by K4JSR on March 2, 2005
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We don't need prizes. We need free beer at hamfests.
If they have free beer, who would care about prizes?
Who would care if someone had a slight "Right Guard
Malfunction"?
Actually, when I started to go to hamfests 50 some odd
years ago, they were more like social events. If there
were any door prizes, they were small and cheap.
The usual door prize consisted of a J-38, ARC-5 or a BC-348. There was some flea marketing done by a few with loaded car trunks. You had assorted forums and
meetings as well as Bingo for the ladies. Some hamfests even had "pot-luck" dinners. I hate to think
of what "POT-luck" would mean at today's hamfests! :-@
IMHO, today's hams have become somewhat self centered
and have all but given up on the social aspects of
this hobby. If all you go to a hamfest for is to buy
stuff and win prizes you have already lost it all.
You are to be pitied. Just stay home glued to your PC
and buy what you need on EBay. Let hamfests again become the social events that they were in their heyday.
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by KC8VWM on March 3, 2005
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"If all you go to a hamfest for is to buy
stuff and win prizes you have already lost it all."
...Well said Cal.
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by KC8VWM on March 3, 2005
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"Calbert. You won a door as a prize! (;( "
lol Mikey,
They say that opening one door often leads to another.
Hmmm... So, I wonder what happens when opening all these doors, if they are all placed in a circle?
This is KC8VWM, now returning you back to your regularly scheduled message forum.
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by WA2JJH on March 3, 2005
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Charles!!! you must HAVE had as many philosophy credits as I.
YOU BROKE THE FIRST PARADIGM!...CIRCULAR REASONING!
WHERE DID YOU GET YOUR DEGREE FROM....WHITE CASTLE?
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Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by WB9BAH on March 4, 2005
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I am chair of our local Swapfest in Colorado; this is my third year. I always buy tickets to support our club...why shouldn't my money be good? The Swapfest is our club's ONLY fundraiser.
We give donated doorprizes away every half hour, winner must be present to win. Unclaimed prizes are gived away prior to the raffle to someone present.
Then all the stubs are put back in the bin, and we find a child to draw for the 3 top prizes, which we buy at discount (though one is donated from oru local repeater club)
Last year I won the ICOM 706 MIIG. Yes, I kept it. I paid for my ticket. I was embarassed, but excited. And it wasn't rigged. If I would have said "draw again" then it would have looked suspicious.
Question: Do I support my local club this year and buy tickets, or not? The raffle law says I have to keep the stubs for a year, to show that all stubs were accounted for that were paid for. I don't know what the Raffle Natzi's at the Capital would do if they discovered someone didn't put their tickets in; I just don't know.
To insinuate that our raffles are rigged is assinine. (sic)
I donate hundreds of hours of my time organizing the Swapfest and ensuring it is done correctly.
I am totally above board, and trust that Swapfest chairs out there have more to do in their free time than to rig a drawing.
73
Kate (Karolyn) Muniz
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by WB4M on March 4, 2005
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I am chair of our local Swapfest in Colorado; this is my third year. I always buy tickets to support our club...why shouldn't my money be good? The Swapfest is our club's ONLY fundraiser.
I rarely have seen any type of contest, raffle, what have you, in which any member of the sponsoring organization was eligible for prizes. Why is this? To insure and demonstrate the integrity of the drawings or however prize winners are selected.
Last year I won the ICOM 706 MIIG. Yes, I kept it. I paid for my ticket. I was embarassed, but excited. And it wasn't rigged. If I would have said "draw again" then it would have looked suspicious.
It looks more suspicious since you won! If you instead had said "I'm a member of the club, I'm not eligible, draw again", it would have demonstrated to the crowd the honesty and integrity of the club and the drawing. If I were at a drawing of some sort, and the members of the organization won one or more prizes, I would have my doubts.
Question: Do I support my local club this year and buy tickets, or not?
You support your club in your next sentence.. "I donate hundreds of hours of my time organizing the Swapfest and ensuring it is done correctly."
I am totally above board, and trust that Swapfest chairs out there have more to do in their free time than to rig a drawing.
I'm sure you are above board, but you must consider "how things look" to the casual attendee. It only takes one or two people in the crowd to question the drawing, and therefore undermining all of your hard work and efforts.
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by K4JSR on March 4, 2005
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Charles and Mikey, I have never won a door as a prize.
I think that may explain why I am always in a JAMB!!!
That may also be the reason I am unhinged.
I guess that hurricane bait Philip would need to win
a storm door prize.
Of course Charles hasn't mentioned that he has an
office in DOORAVILLE, Ga.
Sigh! This is getting so complex! I guess we should all just cool our ARDOOR!
Do you know why a chicken coop has only 2 doors?
Because if it had 4 doors it would be a sedan!
I guess it is time to stop being a bunch of DOORQUES
and get back to hamfests.
I think that hamfests are far better social events
than public hangings. NEXT???!
73, Cal (Even more anonymous than KC8VWM!)
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by WA2JJH on March 6, 2005
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Calbert You pure pun premise is pompus,purposterous and
punitive to punsters, punk rockers,and prostitutes peddling to wear pumps(the shoes)
Pu-lease promise promply to peddle punistacly to pun school. purhaps pun school perdition will prevent pugalsitic problems.
So my friend...here is to you and here is to me. However should some day you shamefully disagree with me. The Hell with you and here is to me!
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by K4JSR on March 6, 2005
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Mikey, you can't say that to me. Remember, I am
ANONYMOUS! In fact I am soo anonymous that my wife
addresses my "Honey Do" lists to "Whom It May Concern".
On anon anon anon...
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prize melbert X-files
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by WA2JJH on March 6, 2005
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OK CAL-BERT.... You made no secret of being ""A FEW FRENCH FRIE'S SH0RT OF A HAPPY MEAL"!
When people went around your town, and said '""'calbert is not even good enough to sleep with pigs" I was furioue! I spoke for you at the Calbert tar and feather rally! I proudly said...."Calbert IS GOOD ENOUGH TO SLEEP AND EAT WITH PIGS!
Sorry you got tared and feathered any way, I did my best! They must have been assuaged by me after all. They wanted to re-create one scene from the movie classic, "DELIVERANCE" I stepped up to he plate and I insisted just one rehearsal! It is not my fault it took
47 takes!
You now tell me your a retroactive anon! You drinking everclear 190 proof!AT
The joke is on you cause I have DX-RAY VISION
I just did a C-T of your brain, 1000 miles away.
1)Your brain is two tense. I mean 2/10th the size of anybody else. The DX-RAY scan also shows 2 cents.
The rest of your brain had the computational power of 100 TTL logic gates. Great for YES, NO, AND, OR NOR ANSWERS.
DO NOT TAKE OFFENSE....YOUR ANONAMOUS. Nobody knows
I am refering to you.
zzzzzzzz
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Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by WF6O on March 7, 2005
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One of my co-workers won a Yaesu FT-847 at the ARRL Southwest convention in 1998. He sold it to me for my FT-757 (he really liked it) and a chunk of cash.
On the other side of the coin, a large hamfest held annually nearby had the most fortunate luck... at least for the guy (committee member) drawing the tickets from the drum... Yep, he drew his own ticket for the grand prize not once, but twice! He "won" the grand prize two years in a row. Incredible luck, isn't it???
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prize melbert X-files
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by K4JSR on March 8, 2005
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Gee, Mikey-Poo, I am whelmed by your concern for me!
Trust me! I wouldn't lie to you unless I just had to or just wanted to!
I really don't mind being a few french fries shy of a "Happy Meal". I would actually prefer Wendy's Side Salad.
I only sleep and eat with pigs when GOATBITERHF is in
town and he is personally delivering those "BELCH SLAPS" he threatened me with a few posts back. It seems that he likes to take a few ducks to the pig sty
so he can "get down and get dirty". So I did not get "tarred and feathered" as you suggested. It was only mud and feathers. Read your personal email about
yours and Feee lep's obsession of "Squeal, squeal like a pig". There will be no deliverance from that!
As far as drinking 190 proof juice, what beer brand
has that?
You didn't see much on that DX-CT scan (No awards for
DX CT!). The reason? O F Brains are ezpensive when you buy them by the pound. I went to my shrink just the other day and told him, "Some days I think I am a teepee, other days I think I am a wigwam". He told
me, "that's easy! You're just two tents!"
My brain is made up of ECL gates as I like staying
up with CURRENT EVENTS. Also, they are all XOR gates.
That way I can always be ORnate exclusively.
Oh wait a minute! Just who were you talking to?
Answer two questions about all of this, please, Mikey; 1) Just how does this save on car insurance?
2)Did you win all of this at a hamfest prize drawing,
or was it a quartering?
73 from whomever I may be at the moment.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
I am schizophrenic
And so am I
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by KL7UHF on March 8, 2005
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Here are my thoughts on the door prize issue. Times, attitudes and economics have changed. Instead of an organization spending the capitol and resources to sponsor this part of a hamfest, put it towards the actual operation of the event it self. These events are not cheap to run like they use to be(liability,insurance, other overhead). If there is a dealer, group, or an individual that would like to make a contribution, ear-mark that "item" and what earnings they get, donate them to the sponsoring club with condition that it goes towards a community goal. A community goal could be a scholarship program for local young adults to attend a Technician training seminar and maybe even finance the test the first time. Hamfest are getting harder to run because of the online competition. Online auction houses, really should not be the guide that dictates the value of the market at the hamfest. You can get it on line cheaper, great, go ahead and come anyway to meet your friends and to complain about something. Bring your stuff to set up and sell anyway. Just don't negotiate prices compared to online auctions with the sales person or owner. That is just rude. People will be willing to pay if it is worth it to them. Door prizes have had a good incentive at one point. In the short period it has been around, it may be a good idea just to phase that part out for the time being. My personal thinking is that if you stick around all day or all weekend just to wait for a prize, well, your priorities may not be in the right place. Family and friends ought to take priority over that. If it doesn't it will bite you on your bum. Any way, support your local hamfest with courtesy and respect. Have fun and enjoy the event. Not all hamfest are going to be great all the time everytime. 73!
Raymond
KL7UHF BP51
Anchorage, Alaska
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RE: Hamfest Attendance Prizes
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by KB1KIX on March 12, 2005
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Mail this to a friend!
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See, something good did come out of this thread after all.
Our club is having a 2 day fest in Newington, CT this year with Riley Hollingsworth as one of our guest speakers.
I'm going to bring up at our next board meeting that we have a winners board.
Ya learn something new every day I tell ya.
Jonathan
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