Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
Alan Applegate (K0BG)
on
March 8, 2005
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I am one of many who frequent this web site, and aid and abet those amateurs with questions about every facet of amateur radio. The facet I enjoy most is mobile operation, and I even support a web site dedicated to it. As a result of my eham.net activity and my web site, I get a lot of personal e-mail. Recently, one of those e-mails brought up an important issue we all have to deal with if we drive -- automobile insurance. If you operate from your personal vehicle, or from a rental vehicle, especially if the installation is temporary, the following information is of vital importance.
Automobile insurance is a competitive business. The comprehensive coverage, basic costs, liability issues, the scope of coverage, and to some extent the state you reside in effect your personal liability if you're involved in a crash or suffer a theft. No two insurance companies have the same ultimate coverage, although state and federal law set the minimum coverage. There are parts of the coverage, however, that are universal and distinctively apply to amateur radio, especially to temporary installations.
In the past, automobile insurance companies offered rider policies to cover communications equipment. It was commonly referred to as CB coverage. About eight years ago, State Farm (the largest automobile insurer in the US) and the other major insurers dropped this separate rider in lieu of covering such losses under the comprehensive portion of their policies and requisite deductible. It is this change in coverage we're most interested in.
The actual wording varies among insurance companies, but the common wording is as follows: Loss means, when used in this section, each direct and accidental loss of or damage to, your car, its equipment which is common to the use of your car as a vehicle, detachable living quarters attached or removed from your car for storage, or other items securely fixed in place as a permanent part of the body. You must have told us about the living quarters or other items before the loss and paid any extra premium required if any.
In case you missed it, the part which reads or other items securely fixed in place as a permanent part of the body is telltale to any amateur who uses a mag mounted antenna, or a transceiver (or HT) which is not permanently attached therein. Should they become dislodged and strike anyone or anything, your insurance company may not cover the loss if any. In the case of State Farm, this coverage extends the liability portion of your policy as well. In other words, you may not have insurance protection if it isn't permanently attached to your vehicle. With today's litigation-prone atmosphere, that fact could be a financial disaster in the making.
As I said earlier, there are differences in coverage between individual companies. I called my State Farm agent and ask the appropriate questions. I even posed the mag mounted antenna issue. My comprehensive coverage includes my amateur radio equipment, it doesn't require any additional premium, and my $100 deductible applies. I was told I should keep copies of the sales receipts (don't we all?) in case I had a loss. As for a mag mounted antenna loss, IT IS NOT covered, period!
You may not have State Farm insurance or live in New Mexico, so your coverage may be different. In any case, if you operate mobile radio in any guise, call you insurance agent and make sure you're covered against any loss. Remember the old adage; an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Alan Applegate, K0BG
www.k0bg.com
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Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by NA4IT on March 8, 2005
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Two choices:
(1)ARRL Equipment Insurance Plan (ARRL membership required),
or
(2)Ham Radio Insurance Associates (ARRL membership NOT required).
Covers it where it is, how it is, etc.
Worth it.
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Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by AA4PB on March 8, 2005
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Alan,
I can understand them not covering the replacement cost of a mag mount antenna. I wonder though if you would be covered by the liability if the mag mount came dislodged and damaged someone else's vehicle. Or for that matter, for a permanently mounted antenna that became dislodged.
By the way, I went to $500 deductibles some time ago because of a large savings in the annual premium. For that reason I figure I'm pretty much on my own as far as covering the present value of my mobile rig anyway (I know you've got a lot more invested in the mobile than I do). As far as theft, I expect you would have to show signs of forced entry and have a police report in order to collect anything from insurance anyway.
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Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by K0RGR on March 8, 2005
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Interesting info. Communicating with my insurance company is like contacting the dead, so I will probably wait until we switch again (coming soon). But, that's good info to have.
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RE: Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by K0BG on March 8, 2005
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Jim, the ARRL insurance plan does not provide liability insurance. It only covers loss.
Bob, my insurance company would not cover the loss even if there wasn't a deductible. Yours might, but I doubt it.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by KD7EZE on March 8, 2005
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This is a good article, and needs to be addressed. I guess it all boils down to your particular insurance provider. I also use State Farm, and have a full coverage, total replacement policy with $100 deductible. This policy covers anything in or on the vehicle, whether permanently attached or not, sans junk magmount antennas(which I'd never use). This coverage costs less than $450 per year, and my agent is always available to help. :)
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Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by WA1RNE on March 8, 2005
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Insurance companies are out to make money. Since it makes more sense these days to use a higher deductable,
I just follow the "Golden Rule": Out of sight, out of mind.
I always install my equipment so that it can be removed easily BY ME to enable the "Golden Rule." That means removing your nice 706 PROIII, etc. and putting it in the trunk or taking it with you.
i.e. for my Alinco DR110, I take it with me in a black velcro carrying case with a shoulder strap. I doubt the mag mount will be viewed as much of a prize and it will be ignored.
Out of sight, out of mind > provides *piece of mind.*
73, Chris
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RE: Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by WB2WIK on March 8, 2005
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Good points.
I'm covered, I checked. However for somebody to steal any ham gear from my car, they'd have to break into it first, which will result in a claim for that damage as well.
The only time I ever had a rig swiped from a car was about 20 years ago, and the thief broke a window. The window replacement cost about $125, and the rig was worth about $300, and I collected. Still didn't make up for my "pain and suffering" when I discovered the thief simply pulled hard on the rig, twisting the mount out of square and tearing the power and coaxial cables off, so those had to be re-wired...
He probably got $5 for it from a pawn shop.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on March 8, 2005
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About two months ago my neighbor had his GPS system in his car stolen. They busted the window, tore up the dash, and stole the 1300 system.
His insurance company was pretty helpful but the hard part was him PROVING that the GPS was in his car at the time.
The only thing that eventually saved him was that his daughter happen to have a picture of her dad in the car and you could see the GPS.
I do agree with his insurance rep that talked to him that said that people have a tendency to say things like "My car was broken into and they got a laptop, cellphone, camera, home stereo and a 52 inch plasma screen" out of it... LOL
Seems the majority of folks will add/pad things in order to make up for the deductible.
I made sure that I took pictures of the inside and outside of all my cars and the mobile equipment inside.
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Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by NS6Y_ on March 8, 2005
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I don't plan to have any equipment in my car that exceeds the deductable I have any time soon.
My neighborhood is "diverse" (which means it sucks) and I plan to come up with a clever little cover for even a cheapie 2m rig. The dashboard on my car is made such that a slick little cover can be made that will fit flush, put the car logo on it and it will look stock.
Antenna will be NMO mount, removable for carwashes, etc and will probably just be a 1/4-wave since anything larger will take a beating in the carport here.
The idea around here is, to have nothing shiny to attract the simians!
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Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by K0AMZ on March 8, 2005
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You have to add "sound coverage" Unless your radio is "built in" where your car radio was it is not covered under regular comp coverage.
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Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by WA9SVD on March 8, 2005
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Insurance policies and companies certainly DO differ. It's best to check with your agent, and GET IT IN WRITING! Agents have been known to hedge or be in error, and only the written terms of your policy apply, regardless of what an agent may say.
As was said before, if the equipment is NOT original factory installed, it probably will not be covered under standard auto insurance. The insurance company will probably cover the $$$ stereo, broken window, destroyed dashboard, and such (don't ask how I know) but add-on equipment, be it HAM, CB, or even business band, isn't considered standard auto equipment and either isn't covered or covered at a very minimal amount.
For the money, the ARRL insurance seems the best bet.
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Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by N8FZ on March 8, 2005
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As a ham AND and insurance agent I can tell you that most ham equipment is not automatically covered on an auto policy, in fact if your equipment is stolen you may find coverage on your homeowners policy. Check with you agent to see which policy endorsement(S) need to be added to make sure your covered. Coverages vary widely from company to company and from state to state.
Now before the insurance companies or agents get beaten up anymore in this thread (hi), a few points worth noting. Yes insurance companies are in it to make money, that's the whole idea, second most agents rarely get asked about ham gear and when they do, its after the fact, we cant insure what we don't know about.
My recommendation is to get the ARRL policy or other simular plan. The coverage is almost always broader than any endorsed auto or home policy and any claim won't count against you in the form of higher auto or home rates.
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Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by N3ZKP on March 8, 2005
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Call me lucky, but in over 35 years of having some form of two-way radio equipment in my vehicles - ham, public service, law enforcement, business band - I have never had a radio OR antenna stolen. I have lived in Texas (including Dallas and Houston), West Virginia and Maryland (Baltimore) during that time, as well as traveling through about half the US.
I make no effort to "hide" the radios; I put them where I need them. The same for removing antennas; I don't, and my current vehicle has five on it, counting the car radio and cell phone.
I guess I can chalk it up to good, clean living. :)
Lon
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RE: Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by N8GNI on March 8, 2005
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My auto insurance covers only things "Permanently Attached" anything not is covered by my homeowners policy. Both policies are $500 deductible so that leaves a lot of stuff to be stolen. As far as liability if something were to come unattached and do damage to somebody else or their property, I have a One Million Doller umbrella add on to my home owners, not that I don't care about somebody else's damage that I might cause, I just don't want to lose all my junk because of it.
Harry
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RE: Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by KC0MDC on March 8, 2005
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That's the third question I asked my prospective agent :) In Michigan I was covered by Farm Bureau and had to carry a rider for the radios, cameras, and whatever else I wanted to cover that wasn't manufacture mounted. I paid $30 every six months for $3000 coverage.
Now that I'm back in the land of Oz (KS), I'm with Shelter Insurance, and my equipment is covered under my Home Owner's Policy.
73 de Tim
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RE: Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by K0BG on March 8, 2005
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Once again, be very careful. Most rider policies and the one offered by the ARRL DO NOT provide liability coverage. Replacement is one thing, but if your antenna flies off and injures someone, you might be in big trouble.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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RE: Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by LNXAUTHOR on March 8, 2005
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- the important question here isn't about insured ham equipment - (mostly covered under homeowner's insurance or clause in auto policy)...
- it's the lack of and low penalties for uninsured drivers... according to my agent (USAA), nearly 40 percent of drivers down here in the lower-slower Sun coast of Florida are uninsured!
- of course, the prevailing view is that if you have your equipment in view in your auto/truck, you *deserve* to get broken into...
- and the person doing it is a victim of society!
- so relax, no matter what happens, it's *your* fault!
:-)
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RE: Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by N1EY on March 8, 2005
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I have USAA. The policy covers radios in Original
manufacturer locations.
Interestingly in Massachusetts one practically
needs to have an automobile insurance policy
to get coverage to the hospital when a car
hits you while pedestrian mobile or bicycle
mobile.
I have recently discovered this when the ambulance
company just refused to bill the health insurance
company. They didn't even try to see if the
company would reject it.
Anyone know about Massachusetts insurance?
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Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by KE4DRN on March 8, 2005
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Good article.
I use a magmount for 2m/440, just to make sure it will not fall of the car, I use a lanyard made from plastic coated aircraft cable that is attached to the mag base and gets looped around the luggage rack.
Perhaps we need to have a sign on the rear of our cars,
"Keep back 500 Feet, Amateur Radio Operator On Board !"
73 james
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RE: Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by WA9SVD on March 8, 2005
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Good point about liability for injury caused by flying shrapnel, and that would normally be covered by the auto insurance. But as to equipment insurance, also be aware that it may be difficult to collect on a homeowners policy for equipment in the car, and without a specific rider, (difficult to obtain, at best) the insurnace companies will replace only a depreciated value, NOT replacement cost!!!
The moral of the story: Make sure your insurance (whether for home equipment or mobile equipment) specifies full replacement value, not "depreciated" value, or you may find a five year old $800 dual-bander is only valued at $50!
And when you DO state the replacement value, make sure it's a reasonable but honest REPLACEMENT value, not necessarily the super deal price you paid for it. If That $250 HeathKit dual-band mobile bought on close-out gets stolen, unless you claimed a higher replacement value (and subsequently paid more for the insurance) that $250 is all you will get (minus the deductible) even if it costs you $800 to replace it a couple of years later. (Again, don't ask how I know.)
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RE: Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by N0TONE on March 9, 2005
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As has been pointed out, you have to consider two completely separate insurance issues:
First, replacement of stolen items. That's the only coverage afforded by HRIA or the ARRL program.
The second coverage is liability. Your mag-mount antenna flies off the car and clobbers someone else's parked car, or hits a person and injures them. Liability has to cover that.
In the years I've been mobiling, I have had rigs stolen. I knew darned well that I was taking a risk, because it was a mixed neighborhood and I was foolish enough to park there. The rig value has either been just below the deductible or not far above. I have never made a claim. The total losses that I have "suffered" have been FAR less than what I would have paid for ARRL "all risk" or HRIA insurance over those years. Therefore, I have decided that for the purpose of replacement value, I "self insure".
I think that's a more honorable way to go, anyway. If you know you won't get insurance if a thing is stolen, then you tend to treat it better. My present mobile setup includes an antenna mount that is quickly and completely removable. What is left with the antenna removed is just a frame-mounted square bar. Someone might see that on the parked car, and wonder what it is - it's under the vehicle, so you have to crouch a bit to see it. The antenna quickly pulls apart into two sections, both of which fit in the trunk.
The rig's remote head velcros to a spot on the dashboard. The wires protrude from the glovebox, and when I park the car, the remote head (faceplate) gets tossed back into the glovebox. The keyer paddle has a spot to rest on the console, and when parked, I simply lay it on the floor, and place a bit of carpet over it that matches the car's carpet. It simply looks like a slightly larger transmission tunnel that way.
The entertainment radio in the car is actually mounted in the glovebox and is a nice upgrade from stock. The stock radio still sits in its original spot on the dashboard - a potential thief looks in from the outside to see just a cheap little AM radio.
The final touch is a blinking red LED on the dashboard. No alarm system, just the LED.
I've parked this beastie in many "rough" places, and it's not been touched.
On the liability end of things, our family carries a $1 million liability rider policy, which essentially picks up where anything else leaves off. I've gone over the contract detail by detail, and cannot think of a liability case that it doesn't cover. All for $250 a year. My main concern is product liability as I've designed a fair number of medical devices over the years.
AM
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RE: Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by LNXAUTHOR on March 9, 2005
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N1EY queried:
"Anyone know about Massachusetts insurance?"
- from my experience in the late '80s, one has to cancel any out-of-state insurance upon moving into the state, then buy in-state insurance even if from the same company... had to do this w/Liberty Mutual (IIRC)...
- oh, and the mandatory first-time payment was 40 percent of the annual premium cost!
- Mass. has some weird insurance laws?
- btw, good advice here from folks regarding insurance, but as always, examine the riders carefully!
- i especially echo recommendations for replacement cost riders - definitely worth the $$$ if something does go awry!
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RE: Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by K1CJS on March 9, 2005
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"Anyone know about Massachusetts insurance?"
Yep. I sure do. Rates are state controlled, so the insurance companies will do just about anything to limit the amount they pay on claims. I had a radio taken from my car, and even though the agent said it was covered because it was securely attached to the dash, the comprehensive only paid for the door lock damage (the thief used a dent puller in the door lock itself) and the dash damage--and not for the radio.
If you don't get a specific rider on the policy, in Massachusetts you lose. Come to think of it, if you insure a car in Massachusetts, you lose! :-)
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RE: Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by NL7W on March 9, 2005
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All:
A few things:
1. Ditch the mag-mounts... Whatever you're doning, drill the holes, shore up thin sheet-metal, and do it right!
2. If treated well, Hustler's standard resonators will work fine. The super resonators have a lower "Q" that results in a wider bandwidth per given band, i.e. a slower reactance change per KHz away from resonance.
3. Now that others have mentioned it, the "super" resonators do seem more prone to mechanical failure than the stancard ones. Of the two choices per band, the "supers" are not 1st pick.
4. Check out DX Engineering's Hot Rodz capacity hats. They're designed to be mounted above a Hustler resonator and increase the efficiency of "antenna system" considerably! Check out their webpage: www.dxengineering.com
73!
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RE: Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by K1CJS on March 10, 2005
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Hey NL7W, methinks you posted under the wrong article!! ;-)
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RE: Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by NL7W on March 10, 2005
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Yep, I did...oops! It was really late at night when I posted (it seems to be the only time I have to read this website). The post had two misspellings, too. Gosh!
73.
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Vehicle Insurance and the Radio Amateur
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by K8KQD on March 17, 2005
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Years ago, my VHF rig was stolen out of my car. When I reported it to Travelers, they asked me what it would cost to replace including professional installation. Since the radio was no longer manufactured, they paid the current price for the newest model plus $100 for installation. I was pleased until they canceled my policy. That was my one-and-only claim with Travelers.
I now have USAA insurance which is only available to veterans and their families. Before buying the ARRL insurance, I called USAA to ask if they would cover my ham equipment. They said that they would insure anything that was wired to the vehicle 12VDC power. So both tranceivers and my High Sierra screwdriver are covered except for my VHF antenna. They noted the specific equipment in the vehicle and it's value on my file and my premium didn't change at all. Of course, I don't know what they will do if I ever have to file a claim. At this point, I'm quite pleased.
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