What's Next With the FCC?
John Raydo (K0IZ)
on
March 24, 2005
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Ok, so now the chair of the FCC is being replaced. And other members are/may be changing. Meanwhile BPL continues to pollute the ether. And the FCC has yet to shut down an single interfering BPL in spite of numerous tests by individual amateurs, the ARRL, and formal complaints (see for example the Texas problems
http://www.remote.arrl.org/news/stories/2005/03/17/3/?nc=1)
Looks to me like politics has totally replaced technology at the FCC (used to be tech guys, even hams, headed up the FCC -- now lawyers and career politicians).
Looks like normal regulatory processes don't work anymore. If this is the case, what is the next strategy? Can individuals or the ARRL sue the FCC for non-compliance with the regulations? Rally in front of Congress? Post more angry letters on this forum?
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by X-WB1AUW on March 24, 2005
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Repeat after me:
“The internet is NOT Ham Radio!”
“The internet is NOT Ham Radio!”
“The internet is NOT Ham Radio!”
“The internet is NOT Ham Radio!”
“The internet is NOT Ham Radio!”
“The internet is NOT Ham Radio!”
“The internet is NOT Ham Radio!”
“The internet is NOT Ham Radio!”
“The internet is NOT Ham Radio!”
“The internet is NOT Ham Radio!”
Got it?!
There isn’t a battle ground on Ham Radio.
Oooops! Wrong “article”?
73
Bob
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by N6AYJ on March 24, 2005
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The problem really started when the League - YOUR League - insisted on having a political hack like Riley Hollingsworth appointed as enforcement tsarina for the amateur service. Having no background in, or knowledge about, Part 97, the tsarina proceeded to misinterpret, misapply and distort the correct meaning of Part 97 in accordance with the wishes of his political sponsor, and the ham community supported him for doing so. Now hams complain that the full Commission ignored its own regulations by implementing BPL. The hypocrites' chickens have come home to roost!
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K1CJS on March 24, 2005
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Sorry, the problem didn't start with Riley Hollinsworth or any other appointee--it started when big business got its foot in the political door. We now have a hell of a choice--to back Republicans who'll back big business, like the BPL debacle, or Democrats, who want to give everybody everything and tax the hell out of everybody who has something to pay for it.
BPL will never go away, and neither will the interference, and likewise the ham license test will be simplified to the point that a second grade education is all that'll be needed to pass it.
And what do we have? The only thing we have is the knowledge that one way or another we've been sold down the river.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by N0IU on March 24, 2005
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K1CJS wrote, "...the ham license test will be simplified to the point that a second grade education is all that'll be needed to pass it."
Wrong again Chris! What about that 5 year old with a Tech license I heard about???
HIHI!
NØIU
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by N4VOX on March 24, 2005
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Like most threads, this one started off discussing one issue and right off the bat someone puts some garbage in that has nothing to di with it. what in the hell has Riley got to do with BPL. Absolutely nothing. What is hurting us with BPL, is that it will serve millions of people and there are only a few hams. those millions also pay taxes and right or wrong, they are going to be served.
I think the hard heads that refuse to join the ARRL continue to show the FCC that the ham community does not have its act togeather, and that we can be ignored. The stronger the ARRL is, the stronger our arguments are.
By the way, Riley is great for ham radio.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K1CJS on March 24, 2005
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He was an exceptional child who had more knowledge than a second grade education offered. After all the test hasn't been reduced to "sign your name and address and you pass" yet, has it? ;-)
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on March 24, 2005
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N4VOX said "What is hurting us with BPL, is that it will serve millions of people and there are only a few hams. those millions also pay taxes and right or wrong, they are going to be served."
BPL is NOT a commercially viable means to transmit data...DSL, Cable and Satellite offer much faster data rates, and do not have the controversy that BPL has attached to it....BPL will be gone completely in a few years....the FCC knows this, that's why they don't see it as a big issue....
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by K0RFD on March 24, 2005
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The current culture among regulators is to stay out of industry's way. That's not a condemnation of this administration, things have been evolving in that direction for quite a while. Money talks.
Let me ask a serious question. Why would you expect the government to shut down a BPL installation because it interferes with Hams when they won't even pull medicines off the market that kill people?
Different situation, but entirely consistent approach. Money talks.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K4RAF on March 24, 2005
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The same people that keep whining about the FCC & big business don't stop to realize just how lucky we are to have someone to cry to. If you were anywhere in the former Soviet Union or in the EU, your "big business" would be owned, run & regulated by the government. You would not be free to whine or you would do the time, in the gulag.
BPL will die when wireless & fiber beat it on the balance sheet. BPL is the internet's BetaMax technology.
My favorite is to hear people break into your QSO & say "I'm taping this, what's your call?" without signing a callsign of their own. The ARRL have bred a long column of misguided activists, preaching rules while breeching the very same. This starts with the OO/recovering radio cops anonymous program who hide behind PO Boxes while writing cards for being 3 minutes late ID'ing in a 90 minute QSO.
Is Riley going to build his retirement home out of bonded bricks of casstte tapes?
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by N6AYJ on March 24, 2005
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If it was OK for tsarina Riley to practice "the ends justify the means", then it is OK for the Commission to do the same thing with BPL's violation of Part 15. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Enjoy your kharma! You asked for it!
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB7LYM on March 24, 2005
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Dramatic words about the former Soviet Union and how good we have it here in the US. But the signs are here and it is just a matter of time and we are a 3 the Class World Power. THe Government got you as they say ( by the short hairs )
Everything needs licences,fees, permissions ,taxes etc
You can't do zilt without the long nose of the Government.
Goulag they wrote ( to show how good we have it here.
Prisons are full, they are building bigger ones .
All ruled by our leader with his great foresight and wisdom.
And some Hamradio Operators are so full of worry that soon they are planted at the Green Willows Cemetery after a massive heart attack did them in.
THE FCC ?? Worthless than t--s on a Bull.
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by NS6Y_ on March 24, 2005
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Every ham I've talked with about it has told me Riley's good for ham radio, no, GREAT. Enforcing ham radio's rules and getting a lot of dirty operators off the air - we *were* turning into CB.
We do need a ham in charge of the FCC overall, but we haven't got one, we've got this guy, and have to work with him. Joining the ARRL and speaking up about BPL is a good start, the new FCC head has to listen to his constituents.
BPL is dying on the vine anyway but we need to accelerate that process. And also get the FCC on the stick about cable systems and internet routers etc that mess up the ham bands - there are some that do! This requires hams with equipment doing the tests and writing up the field/lab reports well enough to publish in QST and QEX and they'll be read.
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by WA3LGG on March 24, 2005
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The FCC nor the ARRL will kill off BPL....Verizon's new broadband wireless system with wide area coverage will...this is not a rinky dink wifi hot spot system....the Verizon system is being tested in Emmaus, Pa....same place that PPL Utilities is testing BPL...I'd place my bet on Verizon...They are not the #1 cell phone co. by being stupid, or as they say, "Can you hear me now?"
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KE6VG on March 24, 2005
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I agree, BPL will die because it is not a cost effective technology. The investors would be smart to bail from BPL now. DSL, wireless, etc. all have a lower cost to deploy per mile. The newer technologies that are hitting soon will leave it as a memory.
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by NS6Y_ on March 24, 2005
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Cool LGG! I've always has a soft spot for Emmaus, that's where Rodale publishing is, good gardening stuff.
"Swarm" systems like the old Ricochet using relatively high freqs (ricochet was on 900MHz) are the wave of the future, look how that was set up, it was cool. You bought a little box, that got you your connect, and also was one more node on the network helping everyone else get their connect too.
Back in the day we got "200 meters and down" because no one wanted the "worthless" HF freqs. Now say, 2 meters and up, in wavelength, may be our own playground because commercial data-hauling will cellularized systems using higher freqs with predicable, controllable, propagation. And we'll still get to playa in our bands up there too since there's tons of room for everyone and we keep inventing new stuff - we're a valuable, free, R&D pool.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by G3SEA on March 24, 2005
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To EX-WB1AUW
It is if there is a a repeater at one or both ends ;)
73 G3SEA
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K7PEH on March 24, 2005
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A ham in charge of the FCC ???
I am not sure I would like that any better than what we have now. Sure, it might be better for ham radio but the FCC is also responsible for a lot of other types of communication that I rely upon daily more so than my hobby in ham radio: telephone, TV, Radio, Cellular, special communications for various businesses, and so on and so forth.
The right type of person for the head of the FCC is a good administrator who can find their way with wisdom among the various politicians and business pressures that come each day. This may or may not be a ham radio operator.
If you consider the spectrum as a whole, and consider the miniscule fraction of that spectrum when you include duty cycle times frequency bandwidth that is due to ham radio, then you must come to the same conclusion that a ham radio operator as the head of the FCC is only a good idea if he meets the requirements of all the other aspects of the job.
So, when the president does not appoint a ham radio operator as the head of the FCC, give him the benefit of the doubt and realize that there is more to the FCC than amateur radio.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W4YBP on March 24, 2005
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What I find so amazing about Riley proponents is the fact you ignore the judicial concept of "innocent until PROVEN GUILTY".
To me, the open publishing of "Warning Letters" on the web is like leaking Grand Jury testimony. Most letters request further information but clearly you become convicted before you even have a chance to respond, by the court of misinformed public opinion.
What bothers me even further is knowing more than a dozen people who after challenging Riley's public accusations (again made before fair determination of basis), they were then told the letter was either "sent by mistake" or rescinded from further action after reviewing recordings further & other data provided by non-FCC staff. I have NEVER seen any of these people cleared publicly, in those same logs. A Scarlet Letter is tatooed forever upon your callsign.
Is that really "enforcement", or is it intimidation, smearing, slander or libel? Seems to me that as a public official, there could be a liability to premature release of warnings without first allowing the accused due-process under The Constitution.
Where does one go to get his previous reputation back over a hobby, once you are wrongly accused worldwide? Seems to me the new FCC head might want to consider redifining the process for publishing warning letters or someone wrongly accused should sue Riley for slander/libel!
w4ybp@yahoo.com
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by N3IJ on March 24, 2005
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One proven method of gaining the respect of regulatory agencies is to demonstrate that Congress pays attention to us by passing our legislation quickly. If we were an industry, we might try to gain that attention by spreading campaign contributions around. But we can do better. We can mobilize voters. If half of us sent an e-mail about a piece of legislation affecting ham radio, that would be upwards of 700 e-mails per representative. Congressional staff have told me that 30-40 e-mails (plus a visit) were enough to persuade the representative to sponsor one of our bills. It is interesting to imagine the effect 20 times as many would have.
The idea that the FCC and other agencies would treat us with far more respect if we demonstrated the ability to get important legislation passed quickly will probably generate the usual skepticism. Other special interest communities -- Sierra Club, AARP, NRA, DAV, Farm Bureau, etc., take it as an established fact and the basis for their existence, while many hams dismiss it. Why do you suppose that is, since (as far as I know) it has not been tested on Amateur Radio issues?
Tom, N3IJ
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on March 24, 2005
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****Like most threads, this one started off discussing one issue and right off the bat someone puts some garbage in that has nothing to di with it. what in the hell has Riley got to do with BPL. Absolutely nothing. What is hurting us with BPL, is that it will serve millions of people and there are only a few hams. those millions also pay taxes and right or wrong, they are going to be served.****
Well our numbers are small only because we "say" you should act one way on the air but then show everyone how we really act on 40 and 80 meters. We've been overrun by morons and we have no one to blame but ourselves.
****I think the hard heads that refuse to join the ARRL continue to show the FCC that the ham community does not have its act togeather, and that we can be ignored. The stronger the ARRL is, the stronger our arguments are.
By the way, Riley is great for ham radio.****
Screw the ARRL! Let me tell you a little about the noble ARRL;
When it was time for my license renewal, I drove the distance to San Francisco and attended the PacifiCon. I went to the testing session and filled out the appropriate renewal form and handed it in to the VE team. I was immediately asked if I was an ARRL member to which I responded in the negative. I was then told, "Uhhhhh.......Uhhhhh.....this is an ARRL testing session and we only renew the licenses of ARRL members. We'll try to put this through for you but chances are, it won't happen." A month later I got a letter from the ARRL stating that if I wanted my license renewed, I'd have to join. HAHA! I went online and for five bucks was renewed immediately. Whatever happened to all of us being "brother" amateur radio operators? Regardless of affiliation!
I view the ARRL inasmuch as I view most unions. A bunch of power-hungry, cutthroats that have very little interest in the cause that they're supposed to represent.
KC5CQD
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by N0AH on March 24, 2005
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Since they've appointing a little boy who doesn't even shave, I say we buy him some radio shack walkie talkies and elmer him into the hobby- In the meantime, we can simply put out of service BPL devices like injured dogs in the street. No harm, no foul- As for the ARRL,, I quit last month. Between their taking any one's ad with a pulse and a total failure with BPL lobbying and DX logging of the world and tossing out out contest scores, I gave up- FCC? ARRL? Brothers- Both agencies have nothing better to do than tit for tat with each other and play ground hog day with the same thing over and over. In the meantime, we have fishing fleets ruining 80 meters, South American drug lords taking up half of 10 and 15 meters. Perpetual problems with broadcast QRM on 40 meters. Home made amps pushing 5KW (you know who you are) and no one to enforce anything- It comes down to us policing our hobby. Take out the BPL, cut the QRM'ing stations coax, call the news on the big gun pushing his 10KW amp, etc....We are #3,487 on the FCC list of concerns. Face it, the ARRL makes it look like they are working hard to solve problems. That is balony. Finding 3 suckers a year to bust is nothing. The emergency service traing is ok but trust me, in Bridge Creek, Oklahoma after the Oklahoma City tornado in May of 1999, we had 14 hams coordinating things just fine. Then a so called ARRL trained emergency ham shows up and in about two hours, we asked him to leave. I'm not saying they are all bad, but the FCC in these days and times should see what is happening with the ARRL's training. Let's face it, do you want 30 seventy year old hams showing up in your neighborhood after a tornado or screened hams trained by the ARRL under FCC Home Security guidelines? Of course, none of this will happen because the FCC thinks of us as toilet paper becuase the ARRL can't do it's job- I would not ask what is next for the FCC, I would ask what is next for the ARRL? If they can't get the BPL problem fixed, what can they do? I'm just waiting for my rig to go dead- And unless you live in the booneys- you should be waiting too- It's coming
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by LNXAUTHOR on March 25, 2005
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- oh my! so much invective against the FCC, the ARRL, and the 'current state' of amateur radio!
- i definitely agree that amateur radio is very low on the FCC's totem pole...
- i also agree that the ARRL doesn't seem to listen to its constituents...
- but it seems many folks take this hobby way too seriously, and don't have fun with ham radio?
- that's the big shame, isn't it?
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KI4BNP on March 25, 2005
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Bill,
Your always a voice of reason.
73
catch a marlin or something and send pictures.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on March 25, 2005
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The FCC is a government bureaucracy, just like the others. If you want to affect it’s actions, you have to face the basic truth: ….only votes and money matter. If we fail to show them enough either; ….we simply don’t matter.
That’s one of the sad truths about our government today: …individuals are ignored, and only groups with influence are noticed.
Many here have expressed dissatisfaction with the ARRL, and some of the complaints seem legitimate. The problem is that we need to be organized in some way in order to lobby effectively. If the ARRL isn’t doing the job, then it’s time to form another entity to represent the ARS.
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by N3ZKP on March 25, 2005
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<< Whatever happened to all of us being "brother" amateur radio operators? Regardless of affiliation! >>
I just love these people who want all the benefits of an organization without the effort and cost of becoming a member.
You don't belong to the ARRL - you have NO claim on their benefits or services - period!
@#$%^ freeloaders!
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 25, 2005
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All we have to do is to get these Senators, Representatives, Congress and all politicians off of "this high class welfare" and send them out to get jobs like the rest of us.
Most should be held for treason with the so many laws they have passed which are un-constitutional.
You, yes you, put them in there and now you complain.
When you vote, vote for the person that will do you good and not what will do them good. Most vote because it is on the democratic or republican ticket. Forget that and vote for the man that will listen to you and do what you want him/her to do. He/she is eating up your well earned tax money and you do nothing about it.
Vote these aristocrats and aristocracy out of our government and lets put in a working class to run our government and country.
Live free or die
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 25, 2005
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Read my lips once again:
All we have to do is to get these Senators, Representatives, Congress and all politicians off of "this high class welfare" and send them out to get jobs like the rest of us.
Take note of the "High Class Welfare".
What more can it be?
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W5ESE on March 25, 2005
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My principal gripe with the ARRL is that they
did not publish their restructuring proposal, so
that rank and file members could read it and
comment on the specifics of it to their Division
Directors, prior to the board's vote. Essentially,
ARRL HQ presented their restructuring proposal
to the BOD and they voted on it immediately (in
a non-roll call vote).
The cynic in me (who may be right) feels that
this was done in order to maximize ARRL
headquarters staff influence over what the
ARRL Board of Directors' decision would be
(and, correspondingly, minimizing ARRL member
influence).
While my director did float the question,
in general terms, of what things we would
like to see in license restructuring, I
would have appreciated the opportunity to
read the proposal as drafted by headquarters
staff and comment on aspects of it in
specific terms.
I pretty sure I'm not the only one who was
annoyed by this.
73
Scott
W5ESE
ARRL Life Member
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on March 25, 2005
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I am sure that the folks at the FCC are extremely concernd about the views of us folks that are borrowing part of their frequency spectrum for the use of our HOBBY ....
and yes --
Its a HOBBY
Its a HOBBY
Its a HOBBY
Its a HOBBY
Its a HOBBY
Its a HOBBY
Its a HOBBY
Its a HOBBY
Its a HOBBY
but I am very amazed that the entire FCC hasnt came to a complete stop in order to listen to our concerns... or maybe more likely, they have and just dont give a crap!!!
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on March 25, 2005
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Vito;
You wrote: >>”All we have to do is to get these Senators, Representatives, Congress and all politicians off of "this high class welfare" and send them out to get jobs like the rest of us.”<<
I agree whole-heartedly; ……..But after voting “Libertarian” for my entire adult life, I’m forced to admit that we’ve hardly made a dent.
It seems that you really can’t “vote them out”, because they control the show!
The other side of the problem is that too many of the voting population have the same short-sighted agenda as the officials they think they are electing. The few that are truly concerned with the long term future of this country find themselves overwhelmed in a sea of mediocrity and indifference.
Does anyone have an answer?
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on March 25, 2005
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GHOSTRIDERHF;
I realize that your theme song is; “IT”S A HOBBY…. IT”S A HOBBY…. IT”S A HOBBY….” (sung to the tune of your choice).
……And you know that there are those of us who differ with you on this point. (To one degree or another.) ….But I don’t want to go into all that right now: I just want to table a couple of questions:
How much fun will your “Hobby” be if your frequency privileges vanish?.....and at what point would you consider it appropriate to get politically involved in an effort to protect your “Hobby”?
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 25, 2005
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Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
I agree whole-heartedly; ……..But after voting “Libertarian” for my entire adult life, I’m forced to admit that we’ve hardly made a dent.
==================================================
The Libertarian party is getting stronger day by day. Keep you eyes open on the Free State of New Hampshire.
Many Republicans are now conforming to the Libertarian point of views as to no realestate taxes, no state taxes, no sales taxes and above all, no government controlled schools. Keep an eye on Mike Badnarik who now is living in Texas and going to move to New Hampshire and possibly run for the President of These United States on the Libertarian ticket.
Eventually when people catch on and get disgusted as to what is going on today with our present leadership, the Libertarian party will be noticed.
W6th
.: Live free or die.
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by KG4YJR on March 25, 2005
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"BPL will die because it's not cost effective"
I wish I could collect a dollar every time I read a statement like that. Apparently most people are paying more attention to who's on American Idol or Survivor than to what their politicians do in Washington. The government loves using tax payer's money to bail out failing industries like the airlines, Amtrak, farmers, artists, welfare recipients, anybody who cannot succeed on their own skills or business model demands and gets subsidies and/or tremendous tax breaks from Uncle Sam that you and I are forced, I repeat, forced to pay and make up for whether it's a nickel more for every roll of toilet paper, increasing our own personal federal income tax or giving us less exceptions so they can give these people our money we earned since they are incapable of making it on their own.
See Business Week story: Why Should Broadband Get a Tax Break?
>>Just like farmers, oil drillers, drugmakers, and others, broadband sellers claim they're somehow special. They say Uncle Sam should give them subsidies so more Americans can get a fast Web connection, which in turn will boost sales of computer and telecom equipment.<<
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/jan2002/nf20020123_6835.htm
Did anybody miss the key word, give?
Don't forget either, the government also runs the post office which also loves to lose money and it's not going anywhere.
73
Dave
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 25, 2005
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The word "give" is well understood.
I don't like this:
. The situation is completely un-American. It is the purpose of the press to help us run the state, and not the other way around. As citizens of a democracy, we have the right and obligation to be well aware of what is happening, both in "the homeland" and the wider world. Without such knowledge we cannot be both secure and free. We therefore must take steps to liberate the media from oligopoly, so as to make the government our own.
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KG4YJR on March 25, 2005
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Good points Vito. Nearly all United States citizens haven't a clue that the government and all it's pimp politicians are subordinate to them, the citizens, not the other way around as everyone seems to think or just accepts. No clue at all that there are a lot more of us, the citizens, vs. them, the politicians that only we can put in office but they only complain every time they get shafted and just turn around and vote for the same crooks over and over because "well, he/she built us a new park with a petting zoo". Just look at all the homes, schools and hospitals that get built for free in other countries (Iraq and the tsunami areas) for their citizens that hate us while there are still hundreds of people without homes here in Florida because they're getting screwed by their insurance companies six months after the hurricanes. The law makers aren't holding the insurance companies accountable as the storms are no longer on the news everyday and the elections are now over. Yet these same people, your neighbors and mine that need homes or healthcare are still expected to pay taxes or go to jail.
73
Dave
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by N3DRK on March 25, 2005
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The ARRL sue the FCC for non-compliance of the regulations? Rally the Congress?
I do not think so. The Congress would rather declare a special session for Terri Schiavo than concern itself with such small things as the destruction of Amateur Radio due to BPL or FCC non-compliance of their own regulations.
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by KE4ZHN on March 25, 2005
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K1CJS You sure said a mouth full there man! I couldnt agree more.
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by KG4YJR on March 25, 2005
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>>New York City Council Unanimously Adopts Resolution to Provide High-Speed Internet Access to Affordable Housing Residents<<
>>"We congratulate the New York City Council on its leadership and vision in unanimously passing Res. No. 669,"<<
Res. No. 669 states that:
* All future publicly financed or subsidized housing properties for residents earning less than 80 percent of the median area income should provide a high-speed Internet connection in the living area of every unit to residents for free or at a cost of less than $10 per month;
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050225/laf043_1.html
You see folks, it won't take long for the "failing, non-profitable" BPL companies to start soliciting the government to let them help these poor people in the poor public housing areas with free broadband access.
"Just think of all the votes that will get you if you can say you sponsored it Mr. Councilman, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Governor, Mr. Congressman, Senator, etc.".
"You just give my company about $110,000,000 in free non-taxable subsidies and about $3,000,000 in tax breaks and we'll make sure every welfare recipient, illegal immigrant and senior citizen has a free broadband connection".
Once a company knows that it can continually get free government money to keep it going for the benefit of millions there will never, and I do mean NEVER be any incentive to become profitable and self sustaining. It will continue to grow, costing tax payers more and more as our government rewards failure with more money to fix it. It's a never ending cycle. And if you think they'll pull the plug on free BPL access from millions of voters because it's losing money guess again. You'll be paying $10 a gallon for gas and five times what you pay in property taxes if that's what it would take to keep it going. No politician wants some welfare mom to get on TV crying and saying that he/she wants to take away her right to write her blog on the Internet everyday while she has to stay at home raising her ten kids.
73
Dave
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 25, 2005
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I told many on QRZ.COM that the ARRL is a one way street and no-one listened to me. I told all to watch their backs and all laughed at me, but who has the last laugh now.
I predict, if you folks do not make changes in this fowled up gov't of ours, you will be seeing insurgents right here is the country. We now know enough on how to work the old revolutionize way to combat the British to gain our freedom so I predict from past history to take heed and prevent this act of tyranny by voting as soon as possible to make these changes for a new and better gov't.
Should we be in need or weapons of mass destruction, I am sure there will be many countries to assist us as America has lost its popularity and we are now the most hated country in the world: worse than the British.
Our Constitution says to do it peacefully. Do you think this is in the minds of crazy mad people who want back the days of American Liberty? You answer that and keep in mind; Liberty, Live Free or Die.
So Be It.
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by DUALGATEMOSFET on March 25, 2005
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Hot diggity! I'm going to quit my job and move to New York where I can get free housing, free Internet, and free money. Don't you just love the government?
73 from
DUALGATEMOSFET
aka
"The Epitaxial One"
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by DUALGATEMOSFET on March 25, 2005
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Vito, we lost our freedoms a long time ago. Our country has become one of the government, for the government and by the government--the people be damned. Money talks, B---S--- walks. Justice is bought and sold every day.
73 from
DUALGATEMOSFET
aka
"The Epitaxial One"
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on March 25, 2005
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The problem is that we cant even agree amongst ourselves on the simple things yet are disappointed when the FCC doesn't do what we want them to do...
---
For every action the FCC does to pis you off, it makes the other half of us happy.
so..
The FCC is only bad when it does something I don't like
----
If the FCC drops code tomorrow -- then half of the people will say the FCC sucks -- the other half will say the FCC is great ...
Its a no win situation for everyone.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 25, 2005
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If the FCC drops code tomorrow -- then half of the people will say the FCC sucks -- the other half will say the FCC is great ...
Its a no win situation for everyone.
=====================================================
I stil have the knowledge to modify and put a key jack in my no code radio.
.:
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by N0AH on March 25, 2005
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N3ZKP- What ARRL benefits are you talking about? Maybe a new ham can read their How to Screw Up Your New Antenna book, or how to waste your time screwing up your EQSL, or read the QST Ad catalog each month. But what does this have to do with the FCC? ARRL benefits? Gosh, I'll have to check my mail box- Last time I got anything from the ARRL, it was another envelope begging for cash- Oh wait a minute, there was that QST artical about a guy who used his pig to go mobile....that was a good story.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 25, 2005
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Hot diggity! I'm going to quit my job and move to New York where I can get free housing, free Internet, and free money. Don't you just love the government?
Good, you can meet the better half "Hillary".
Can even vote and campaign for her on her election for presidency. Hail The Chief.
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 25, 2005
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To the FCC and associates:
May your bleeding piles torment and corns grow on your feet.
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on March 25, 2005
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What a whiny hobby we have...
U whine about the no coders
U whine about the ARRL
U whine about your elected officials
U whine about the FCC
U whine about poeple not using their real callsigns
U whine when people call this a hobby and no longer a service
U whine becuase U have done nothing to make a difference. I don't mind when someone bitches about trying to change something and can't -- but I do hate to hear U whine becuase your panties are in a bunch and youre to lazy to fix them and whine when someone won't fix them for you the way u want it.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by DUALGATEMOSFET on March 25, 2005
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Vito, I was being facetious. I agree with you 1000% about our corrupt government.
73 from
DUALGATEMOSFET
aka
"The Epitaxial One"
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 25, 2005
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DUALGATEMOSFET
I understand, but so many do not. I agree with your notations also and some extremely funny.
Next I will give proven proof how the aristocrats control and regulate our armed forces. You will notice all are officers and non-combatant.
I heard today that:
Did you know that the Bush family and the bin Laden family were in very close friendship?
Wonder what happened?
.:
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by KG4YJR on March 25, 2005
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Here are some quotes from an article about the: "Bush Says Americans `Ought To Have' Broadband and a Pony by 2007" speech.
>>as the President said, if you want something to grow, do not tax it. It would be antithetical to our broadband policies to turn around and go ahead and start levying taxes on it<<
>>We have been urging the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to take whatever steps are necessary to finish and clarify that so that there is certainty in the industry and there is an incentive for companies to roll out new fiber and new broadband technologies<<
MAKE SURE YOU READ THIS
>>Some people won't be satisfied unless your broadband policy includes writing a $100 billion check of the taxpayers' money, picking the wrong technologies, sending it to every home, and creating an additional bottleneck. Our perspective is completely different. We do not think of broadband as simply a pipe. It can be wireless; it can be cable; it can be DSL (digital subscriber line); it can be broadband over power lines. We are taking steps to encourage all of those technologies.<<
I REPEAT
>> it can be broadband over power lines. We are taking steps to encourage all of those technologies.<<
>>In fact, there are 59,000 federal government systems in the frequency band that have been proposed for broadband over power lines.<<
Full article at: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Regulation/hl852.cfm
Now for more of your thoughts my fellow eHam readers.
73
Dave
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KG4YJR on March 25, 2005
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>>Did you know that the Bush family and the bin Laden family were in very close friendship?
Wonder what happened?<<
Last I heard Bush was upset because he doesn't know where to send Osama a birthday card and to say he's only kidding about fighting a war on terrorism.
73 o' "Epitaxial One"
Dave
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 25, 2005
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Could be that bin is a double agent.
Bin suggested to King George, the only way to peace is to start a war. A good choice would be Iraq, oodles and oodles OF BLACK GOLD, but keep in mind that this BLACK GOLD is to feed the Iraqi's, through the support of the United Nations.
Bin said there was never, never any weapons of mass destruction.
As bad as King George B is, I don't think "boxer" should have bad mouthed our King. I know the British would never stand for that. Hey! I have English blood in me bloody veins mate. I still celebrate FAUX day.
Come tickle your ass with a feather today mrs murphy, no I said particular nasty weather today mrs murphy, you misunderstood me.
cheers.
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on March 25, 2005
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KC8VWM
Sorry there KC8VWM you have me confused with your mother -- I'm GhostriderHF not your mom GoatRider
although I may be your daddy!!!
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RE: Lunch!
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by W6TH on March 25, 2005
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Can happen today as well.
Guy Fawkes (1570 -1606) conspired in the Gunpowder Plot to blow up King James the First and members of both Houses of Parliament. He was arrested in the cellar below the House on November 4, 1605 tortured and executed.
Guy Fawkes Day is still celebrated in Britain every year with bonfires, fireworks and the burning of the ‘guy’ usually a grotesque effigy.
Cheers
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by WB4M on March 25, 2005
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I heard today that:
Did you know that the Bush family and the bin Laden family were in very close friendship?
Wonder what happened?
You bought into Michael Moore's B.S. movie, that's what happened.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KG4YJR on March 25, 2005
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>>I heard today that:
Did you know that the Bush family and the bin Laden family were in very close friendship?
Wonder what happened?
You bought into Michael Moore's B.S. movie, that's what happened.<<
I don't know about that. Tell me a better way to kiss and make up to an old friend for blowing up his caves and destroying the Taliban by:
A) Going to war to remove a sworn enemy of his from power.
It's no secret to the educated in this world that Bin Laden always loathed Saddam Hussein. He hated the Iraqi leader's un-Islamic behavior, his secularism and his threats to one day take over Saudi Arabia.
B) Humiliate your our citizen's grandmothers and children every time they get on an airplane.
Senior citizens and children are now forced to take off their shoes, give up their nail clippers, be subject to a cavity search if they're the least bit complacent just to travel even though there were no gray hairs or little American kids that hijacked four airliners and committed the worst act of terrorism on this continent.
It all reminds me of the movie "Fail Safe". Where the US accidentally bombs Moscow so the president bombs New York to appease the Soviets and avoid a world war.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 25, 2005
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heard today that:
Did you know that the Bush family and the bin Laden family were in very close friendship?
Yes, was the movie, but in a misplaced section. Thought I would get some sort of a reply, but you were the first to make the comment. Good to let it be seen here now.
There is no doubt that Federal gov't is very much concerned of the possibility of much more to come. The craving for power in this country is what happens when more attention should be paid to our citizens.
Not only are many countries mad at us, but so are many of our own citizens. The anti-gun laws are not helping this situation and worsens our protection.I believe we should strengthen our militia and not depend on the national guard.
All we ever needed in this country is to appoint one single person, that will abide by our constitution and protect our Bill of Rights and no need for the high cost of "what" tries to determine what is good and no good for the American people.
The Libertarian party is the one and only party that will bring back America where we can live free and not have the gov't control our lives. It is not too late for the change. Time will tell.
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KG4YJR on March 25, 2005
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>>All we ever needed in this country is to appoint one single person, that will abide by our constitution and protect our Bill of Rights<<
It's a shame that the only candidate that ran on that platform along with protecting our borders, our individual rights and our propery rights got less than 1% of the total American vote. Telling the American people that they have to work for a living and be responsible for their own well being isn't very popular with the majority of Americans and is the sure way to lose an election. People say I wasted my vote by voting libertarian but I'm very proud that I did.
73
Dave
Card carrying libertarian
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by WA6BFH on March 25, 2005
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I whine two in the morning, and I whine two after dark.
I whine two before I whine two, and then I whine two more!
Do you think computers and the computer industry would have ever been built by kids in garages, if there had been a federal agency regulating them?
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KG4YJR on March 25, 2005
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>>Do you think computers and the computer industry would have ever been built by kids in garages, if there had been a federal agency regulating them?<<
My answer is hell no!
Why do you think it's against the law for private industries to do mail delivery more efficiently, cheaper and more effective? Why are there strong and punitive laws for third party candidates to have equal ballot access to run for office than that of the democratic and republican parties that conveniently exclude themselves from them and why is it my friends and fellow amateurs that if your wonderful elected government officials ever decide to force you to pay a $100 a month "breathing air" tax or "a $500 per foot amateur radio equipment antenna tax" and you refuse to pay it, they will send men with guns to your house to arrest you, seize your assets, send city workers to tear down your antenna and keep you in jail until you can pay all the fines and the city's costs??? Why? Because they can and because YOU elected them and told everybody else who disagreed or protested to "SHUT UP!".
73 & Have a great Easter weekend everyone :-)
And double thanks for the soapbox. I needed it.
Dave, KG4YJR
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KG4YJR on March 25, 2005
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>>Do you think computers and the computer industry would have ever been built by kids in garages, if there had been a federal agency regulating them?<<
Oh yeah, and look what happened to Bill Gates when he refused to play the government's protection racket game. He makes money so he's a government enemy. If you need money to run an unsuccessful business that loses money you're their friend and you get tax payer's money, from successful people that earned it because you couldn't or refused to.
73
Dave
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on March 25, 2005
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****I just love these people who want all the benefits of an organization without the effort and cost of becoming a member.
You don't belong to the ARRL - you have NO claim on their benefits or services - period!
@#$%^ freeloaders!****
Freeloader? No effort? I had just driven 135 miles to a ham convention. Had just filled out a form at the testing session AND had not been informed prior to traveling this distance that the testing session was an "ARRL testing session". What the hell does it take to put a form that weighs a gram at best in the envelope with the rest of the forms to be sent to the FCC? Hell....I would have gladly paid the morons to do so!!
Don't give me this crap about membership vs. non-membership. We're all ham operators and we're supposed.....SUPPOSED.....to respect at least that much about one another.
You ARRL flunkies are no better than these corrupt union members. A bunch of sycophants that follow your leaders around kissing their tail ends.
I'm an electrician by trade. Non-union electrican, proud to say. And I'll be damned if I would ever disrespect a fellow electrician JUST because he did belong to the I.B.E.W.
That's called human decency. A term that's lost on the ARRL, obviously.
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 25, 2005
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Wow, I am in agreement with all today. Not only great posts, but truthfull.
Happy easter all.
So be it.
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by WA1RNE on March 25, 2005
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Vito:
Live Free or Die??
You're not in New Hampshire yet, are you??
They keep saying that up here and you know they mean it by the way they drive on I-93.....
...beware.......
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by WA1RNE on March 25, 2005
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BTW, anyone notice??
Going by the posts so far, this article should have been titled :
"What's Next with U.S. Foreign Policy?"
...or for a future article:
"Why are the Fed's allowing Welfare Recipients Free Access to Broadband over Power Line?"......
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K3NG on March 25, 2005
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"When it was time for my license renewal, I drove the distance to San Francisco and attended the PacifiCon. I went to the testing session and filled out the appropriate renewal form and handed it in to the VE team. I was immediately asked if I was an ARRL member to which I responded in the negative. I was then told, "Uhhhhh.......Uhhhhh.....this is an ARRL testing session and we only renew the licenses of ARRL members. We'll try to put this through for you but chances are, it won't happen." A month later I got a letter from the ARRL stating that if I wanted my license renewed, I'd have to join. HAHA! I went online and for five bucks was renewed immediately."
Did you ever think of just sending the form to the FCC? They issue your license, not the ARRL. I'm all for helping a fellow ham out, but why should my ARRL dues pay for the man-hours to renew your license, when you can do it directly with FCC?
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K3NG on March 25, 2005
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"Freeloader? No effort? I had just driven 135 miles to a ham convention. Had just filled out a form at the testing session AND had not been informed prior to traveling this distance that the testing session was an "ARRL testing session". What the hell does it take to put a form that weighs a gram at best in the envelope with the rest of the forms to be sent to the FCC? Hell....I would have gladly paid the morons to do so!! "
Driven 135 miles? Why didn't you just download the form from the Internet, print it, and put it in the mail directly to the FCC?
If you would gladly pay the "morons", why don't you just join the ARRL?
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by N0AH on March 25, 2005
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N4VOX- Are you bipolar or something? Reread your posting and you seem to say we should all submit to the tax paying public and, waste our money on QST and worthless lobbyest. What do you for a living? Write parking tickets or something? I think your a BPL spy planted in on Eham!
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 25, 2005
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I have to answer this.
Browse the QRZ.COM and eHAM and you will find many I think are called statistics, may be the wrong name for it and won't take the time to look it up. But these kind of people always think what the gov't does is always right. I have heard the saying; "I don't mind paying taxes", we need to.
Paying taxes to me is giving your hard earned money to be squandered by some gov't official.
If you read, moneys should be made by importing and exporting, to make it in simple language. Isn't this what caused the breakaway from Britain was the start of taxation without representation. Remember the Boston tea party?
May be that you went to a gov't controlled school and it wasn't taught.
.:
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by WA6BFH on March 25, 2005
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I recently renewed my license via the Internet for free!
I first paid $4.00 Dollars for my first license, then $4.00 again, then, $4.00 again, then $25.00, then FREEeeeeeee for ever since!
I would gladly pay $100.00 Bucks, or even more for each renewal to keep Ham radio OURs, you cheapskate MF OM’s!
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on March 26, 2005
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N0AH;
After reading your post, I went back and re-read the offering from N4VOX. What he is saying seems pretty clear to me: ….He’s basically pointing out that millions of voters who want cheap Internet access have a hell of a lot more Political Clout than 250,000 - 500,000 (pick a number you believe) ARS licensees.
As W6TH has explained, reform is desperately needed in Washington; but unfortunately, I fear that that sort of reform is going to take a while. In the meantime, we have to live with the current circus in D.C.
The clowns in that circus keep their jobs by buying cheap votes with give-away programs, and they get their re-election campaign funds from the special interests that they really serve. BPL is a good example of this: ……It offers millions of simple minded voters cheap Internet access, and it will make millions for the utility companies, who coincidentally tend to be big political supporters.
Never mind the fact that from a technical standpoint, BPL is a lousy idea! ……The politicians probably don’t understand how it works (or even care IF it works); ….All they know is that it is the sort of “Political Bon-Bon” that none of them can say “no” to.
This isn’t Rocket Surgery! ……We have to look at our options for dealing with “The Circus” through lobbying efforts and funding (read bribing), or we are likely to wind up in a small cage in the Sideshow!
BTW: Your credibility is not enhanced when you indulge in personal attacks; …..you’re better off leaving them out.
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on March 26, 2005
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KB9YZL said "BPL is a good example of this: ……It offers millions of simple minded voters cheap Internet access, and it will make millions for the utility companies, who coincidentally tend to be big political supporters. "
Kent, you miss the point here...BPL will FAIL because it is INFERIOR to the other options that are out there....not only is it NOT cost effective, it is slower, subject to interference from outside sources, and is NOT secure....given the option of DSL, Cable, or Satellite, this is a no-brainer....BPL will NOT make millions for the utility companies...in fact, those that have tried it have LOST money on this technology, because it just does NOT work as well as the other options....
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 26, 2005
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So far I have two computers on DSL and the third on Earthlink and am very well pleased with what I have.
I certainly do not have the need for the BPL system as I also believe it is a failure from the start. Amazing how little is known to even think of using such
They, the politics are better at BPLing taxes then into communications.
Please, should you communicate me on the ham bands, please, no politics or religion is to be exchanged. I think eHAM is the greatest no matter what the subject is posted. I wish EHAM much success for the future.
Nice wording you appliance operator, could not have said better.
73 W6TH.
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on March 26, 2005
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****Driven 135 miles? Why didn't you just download the form from the Internet, print it, and put it in the mail directly to the FCC?
If you would gladly pay the "morons", why don't you just join the ARRL?****
Uhhhhh.......maybe I wanted to ALSO attend the Pacificon??? Hard to download that from the internet. I don't join the ARRL because of that particular experience and also the negative experiences that many of my fellow amateurs have had with them. They're snobs. Think they're somehow better than the rest of us because they belong to a little club. Same reason I won't join the I.B.E.W or the Teamsters or the Carpenter's/Cabinetmakers.....because they somehow think they're better at their jobs because they belong to a little club. Only thing they're better at is whining and threatening not to do their work if they don't get their way. Kind of like the ARRL.
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 26, 2005
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WA1RNE Vito:
Live Free or Die??
You're not in New Hampshire yet, are you??
They keep saying that up here and you know they mean it by the way they drive on I-93.....
...beware.......
===============================================
Be good idea to clarify this statement further so I may get a better understanding of what is really on your mind.
I fear not.
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K3NG on March 26, 2005
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"Uhhhhh.......maybe I wanted to ALSO attend the Pacificon??? Hard to download that from the internet. I don't join the ARRL because of that particular experience and also the negative experiences that many of my fellow amateurs have had with them. They're snobs. Think they're somehow better than the rest of us because they belong to a little club. Same reason I won't join the I.B.E.W or the Teamsters or the Carpenter's/Cabinetmakers.....because they somehow think they're better at their jobs because they belong to a little club. Only thing they're better at is whining and threatening not to do their work if they don't get their way. Kind of like the ARRL. "
Well then you should have just picked up a form and mailed it yourself. It sounds like you didn't like the ARRL in the first place before your trip. The ARRL does alot for this service outside of membership services. It's only natural that some services should be for paying members as it costs money in both materials and human resources to make some of these things work.
If you weren't a member of the union at work and you didn't like them, would you seek their help the next time you got screwed by your employer? I personnally don't like unions, but your analogy isn't quite valid. I hear more people outside the ARRL whining than inside. I've disagreed with the ARRL plenty of times, but the League is one of the few organizations that has kept this hobby going, despite a few missteps over the past years.
I don't think I'm better than anyone being a member of the ARRL. I get a nice magazine each month, I use the outgoing QSL bureau, and I support an organization that represents me in DC. I spent a couple thousand bucks on ham equipment, it only makes sense to pay $40 a year to get information that helps me enjoy this equipment and have more places to use it (i.e. 60 meters).
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 26, 2005
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WA1RNE,
Not much different than California. I can't wait to protest.
Interstate 93 (I-93), a major link in the Interstate system as well as the National Highway System, extends from Boston, Massachusetts to just north of the New Hampshire / Vermont border near Littleton, NH. The highway is an important transportation corridor between the greater Boston metropolitan area and the New Hampshire communities in the south central part of the state.
WA1RNE
No different then what we have here in California.
The 18-mile section of I-93 under study, as originally constructed in the early 1960s, passes through the communities of Salem, Windham, Derry, Londonderry and Manchester. As a 4-lane highway (2 lanes in each direction), its maximum capacity is in the range of 60,000 to 70,000 vehicles per day (vpd). In 1997, average traffic volumes were in excess of 100,000 vehicles per day in Salem (south of Exit 1), with segments to the north carrying between 60,000 and 80,000 vehicles per day. Motorists traveling along the I-93 corridor currently experience traffic congestion and substantial delays. In addition, this congested nature of the highway makes it less forgiving and consequently a less safe facility than it could be.
For Those That Fought For It, Freedom Has A Taste And A Meaning, The Protected Will Never Know.
Have a good day and take care.
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on March 26, 2005
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****Well then you should have just picked up a form and mailed it yourself. It sounds like you didn't like the ARRL in the first place before your trip. The ARRL does alot for this service outside of membership services. It's only natural that some services should be for paying members as it costs money in both materials and human resources to make some of these things work.****
Truth be known, good sir; I had no issues with the ARRL prior to that experience. Yes, I had heard many of my co-hams complain about some of their negative experiences with the ARRL but I kind of figured if they hadn't ever shafted me personally, I wouldn't judge them. We never really know both sides of a story whenever someone's griping about how they got screwed, right? What happened with that experience is that it then became personal. I had personally been "dissed" by this group and so thought, "Damn, they were right. These guys ARE a bunch of jerks!"
It's not like I was asking them to represent me to the FCC or anything. I was asking if my renewal form could be placed in the packet with all the others. Not as an ARRL member or non-member but as a fellow Amateur Radio Operator. Yeah, I could have just mailed it myself or done it online but hey...I WAS THERE! The form was filled out and I am an FCC licensed ham!
It's the equivalent to me leaving a fellow electrician in a bind and hanging because he belongs to the union and I don't. Again, sometimes we have to drop all the affiliation crap and just be decent human beings. That was a moment for the ARRL to say, "Sure, we'll do it for you. Would you be interested in joining?" More than likely, I would have just because they had been so nice to me. Now? When hell freezes over.
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on March 26, 2005
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RADIO123US:
No, you misread me: ….I’m not missing the point at all!
I stated right in my post that BPL was a “Lousy Idea”.
One of my points was that IT DOESN’T HAVE TO WORK for some politician to seize upon it as “just the right sort of stuff” for his (or her) next campaign!
Do any of the gun laws they pass work? Hell No! ……..but passing them makes the politicians LOOK like their doing something; when in fact, they are taking the course that requires the minimum effort: ……..Just re-write the same old crap one more time, and you can show the simple minded public what a hero you are!
Like Billy Crystal used to say; “It’s better to LOOK marvelous than to be marvelous!”. (At least that’s how our leaders see it!)
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on March 26, 2005
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KB9YZL said "One of my points was that IT DOESN’T HAVE TO WORK for some politician to seize upon it as “just the right sort of stuff” for his (or her) next campaign!"
Kent, in today's society, it DOES have to work...when it comes to this sort of technology, the consumers quickly find out what works well and what doesn't....BPL operates so POORLY compared to cable or DSL, it is a no brainer for the consumer to make a choice...there isn't many politicians that will choose to support something that is obviously a loser from the start....
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 26, 2005
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Now for some good information in regards to the ARRL and the FCC:
Back in 1938, what the FCC wanted the ARRL would get its members to bring forth the FCC desires.
Now in this year of 2005, it is a different story and the FCC no longer has the needs or the help of the ARRL or its members. The "Federal Candy Company" as we called it back then was to sugar the ham society. The ARRL just sweetened it a little more.
The ARRL is nothing more than a magazine publishing company, but we should support the ARRL by buying their great informed books.
What goes around, comes around and the ARRL got the well known "Boot in The Behind" from the "Federal Candy Company".
Nice to be loved, is it not?
Isn't it nice to be used? Go get them tiger.
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K8MHZ on March 26, 2005
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<Did you know that the Bush family and the bin Laden family were in very close friendship?>
Trust me, I am no fan of the Bush Admin., far be it in fact. So I did follow up on this statement. What I found is that the Bin Ladens pretty much have dis-owned Osama due to the embarrasment he has caused them by the violent means in which he advocates. True, GB and the Bin Ladens have ties, but neither it seems has ties to Osama.
There is way more stuff about GB that is worse than the above. Easy to find if you are looking for it.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by N4VOX on March 26, 2005
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Radio said that Cable,DSL and satellite are the way to go. You don't live where I live. Less than 10% of the homes in the county are served by cable or DSL. Satellite is over $90 per month. BPL will be well received as I am sure it will be faster than the poor service we now get from telephone lines. The fastest I can ever get is 24K. I don't like BPL, and will suffer just like you, but I know many neighbors that look forward to better internet service. To them BPL will save the day.
I hope that someone is working on a way to speed up service over poor quality telephone lines or we are doomed to live with BPL>
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by N4VOX on March 26, 2005
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KC5CQD doesn't like it because the ARRL provides a service for its members. Tough. Then he said he went on line and paid someone $5.00 and got his license renewed, haha. well KC5, while you were online why didn't you go to the fcc website and renew your license for free. You were a sucker to pay someone $5 to do what you can do for free.
Keep knocking the ARRL and keep getting suckered. Theres one born every minute.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by N4VOX on March 26, 2005
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W4YBP doesn't like the business of the FCC being in the open and wants to know what can be done. You can start by pressuring congress to repeal the freedom of information act. Keep government activities secret. The FCC didn't pass the FOI act, congress did.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by N4VOX on March 26, 2005
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Florida and several other states have bills pending in the legislature to prohibit local governments from providing wireless or internet connections. Funded by the big savior Verizon they want to keep out any competition. Then watch the rates skyrocket. If BPL fades it will be because the big internet providers kill it not because it doesn't work or interferes with radios.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on March 26, 2005
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RADIO123US;
You’re taking an Engineer’s view of the world. (My original profession.)
….And by the way,….good on you! …..Engineers deal with reality!
We’re not talking about that!
We’re talking about “Political Expediencies”, where something doesn’t have to work, ….it just has to sound good to the voters. By the time an idea’s impracticality has been shown, the votes have been cast, and our “Leaders” are trying to direct our attention elsewhere!
This is what we’re up against!
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by N4VOX on March 26, 2005
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In the harbor of New York City stands the Statute of Liberty with the saying, send me your tired, your hungry your poor. Alabama did.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on March 26, 2005
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N4VOX said "Radio said that Cable,DSL and satellite are the way to go. You don't live where I live. Less than 10% of the homes in the county are served by cable or DSL. Satellite is over $90 per month."
You prove my point quite well....to make BPL profitable, you have to have population density, which you DON'T have out in the country...it takes ALOT of equipment to get that signal to your rural home, and unless there are a large number of homes in a small area, it gets VERY expensive to set up....I don't see many investors getting real excited about something like this that would be guaranteed to LOSE money....
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on March 26, 2005
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KB9YZL said "We’re talking about “Political Expediencies”, where something doesn’t have to work, ….it just has to sound good to the voters. By the time an idea’s impracticality has been shown, the votes have been cast, and our “Leaders” are trying to direct our attention elsewhere!"
Kent, don't forget that there are LARGE corporations, like Verizon, that are building wireless internet networks all over this country...these corporations have MUCH more "pull" with the politicians than any power company trying to set up a BPL system would have......do a internet search on "William Luke Stewart" and "Media Fusion"...and you will see how the BPL scam started...and see why there are now indictments for investor fraud regarding this scam....
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on March 26, 2005
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****KC5CQD doesn't like it because the ARRL provides a service for its members. Tough. Then he said he went on line and paid someone $5.00 and got his license renewed, haha. well KC5, while you were online why didn't you go to the fcc website and renew your license for free. You were a sucker to pay someone $5 to do what you can do for free.
Keep knocking the ARRL and keep getting suckered. Theres one born every minute*****
Yep. Here's a great example of the ARRL at its best. One of the simpletons that refuses to see any error in his beloved institutions.
I asked whatever happened to human decency and kindness and get venom spewed back at me. Kind of drives home the point, doesn't it?
Calls me a sucker and yet shells out a membership fee to get a magazine. hahaha!
KC5CQD
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by W5BJB on March 26, 2005
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READ and closely examine http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/osmhome.html
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by N4VOX on March 26, 2005
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radio123 you fail to notice that the reason BPL will work is because the power lines are already in place. No cable service because they only want to serve core cities. NO DSL because they are not interested in anything but business lines.
Thousands of customers with power lines, but no cable or DSL lines in almost every county around here and the nation.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on March 26, 2005
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N4VOX said "radio123 you fail to notice that the reason BPL will work is because the power lines are already in place."
No, you fail to understand that they just can't put a transmitter on one end of the line and put a receiver on the other end 50 miles away....it takes ALOT of equipement in between...I suggest you do some reading on "William Luke Stewart" and "Media Fusion" and see how he scammed everyone (including you) into believing this would actually work...I think you might find this link VERY informative.....
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.11/media_pr.html
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on March 27, 2005
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All you guys are arguing about the impractical technical points of BPL; ….and that’s great! A firm grasp on reality is important; ……..everywhere except in Washington!
The issue isn’t technical feasibility, …..it’s “Political Expediency”! BPL is just another item on a distinguished list of non-functional, but politically desirable ideas!
Does Welfare work? …………………NO!
Does Affirmative Action work? ……..NO!
Do the Gun Laws work? …………….NO!
Does Socialism in general work? ….NO!
What do all these non-functional ideas have in common? …..They all appeal to that vast herd of simple minded voters who really believe that the Government is giving them things that weren’t actually theirs to begin with!
These generally unserviceable ideas serve only one real purpose: generate votes to keep self-serving clowns in office!
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KD4AC on March 27, 2005
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"to make BPL profitable, you have to have population density, which you DON'T have out in the country"
You may have a point there. So far, all the trials I've seen are in areas that have some density, where DSL or cable are probably already options. Even then, how profitable will it be? If I lived in an area where I had my choice between between BPL, DSL or cable, which do you think I'd choose? First we have BPL, for about $35 a month with download speeds slower than that of DSL or cable. I know the proponents of BPL are claiming faster speeds. One big thing they're trying to advertise is that their upload speeds are faster than DSL or cable. For the most part, they're full of crap. Their upload speeds MAY be faster than DSL or cable, but most everybody I know is more concerned about download speeds. Then you have the interference factor. We know it generates interference, but it also receives interference. I'd be interested to find out what spring and summertime thunderstorms do to the data stream as it is constantly bombarded with noise over the whole spectrum from lightning. And the further the distance from the ISP to your house, the more noise it will pick up. Then you have DSL, which runs between $35 and $45 a month. Probably comparable to cable IF you live within a certain distance of the switching office. Even then it's still slower than cable, although you can get higher speeds if you're willing to pay for it. Then you have cable, where most of the providers now have download speeds between 5 and 7 Mbps for about $35 to $45 a month, depending on your provider. Cox cable charges $45 a month with modem rental, $35 a month if you purchase your own modem. Brighthouse and Time Warner charge the same amount whether you have your own modem or not. So, to me, for the money, cable is the best choice. There are some technologies on the horizon, such as fiber optic, that will provide transfer rates into the Gbps and possibly into the Tbps range. One thing to keep in mind though, while all these technologies promise great download speeds, I've found that I get NOWHERE near those speeds most of the time because the server at the other end doesn't have the upload speed capable to transferring at that rate.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 27, 2005
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Remember that for every law passed, there is some-one making money on that law.
Try thinking of this: You get arrested for a law passed and is broken by you. You get a lawyer and this lawyer is either paid by you if you can afford to pay, if not, one will be assigned to you and will be paid by the state with taxes paid to the state.
The lawers today need to have a income and these laws are passed to keep the lawers off of welfare.
Most laws passed today are unconstituional and / or take the rights away from we citizens. Yet it has to be fought by lawyers. Either way a lawer does get paid.
The ARRL and the FCC, you have no control over so stop your beefing and get on with life.
Every person place or thing is responsible for their own doings and if you do not like the way it is going, you delete. Lawyers are aristocrats and love power and control over people.
If and when you vote, vote for the individual that will serve you best and not the party.
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 27, 2005
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Remember that for every law passed, there is some-one making money on that law.
Try thinking of this: You get arrested for a law passed and is broken by you. You get a lawyer and this lawyer is either paid by you if you can afford to pay, if not, one will be assigned to you and will be paid by the state with taxes paid to the state.
The lawers today need to have a income and these laws are passed to keep the lawers off of welfare.
Most laws passed today are unconstituional and / or take the rights away from we citizens. Yet it has to be fought by lawyers. Either way a lawer does get paid.
The ARRL and the FCC, you have no control over so stop your beefing and get on with life.
Every person place or thing is responsible for their own doings and if you do not like the way it is going, you delete. Lawyers are aristocrats and love power and control over people.
If and when you vote, vote for the individual that will serve you best and not the party.
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 27, 2005
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Remember that for every law passed, there is some-one making money on that law.
Try thinking of this: You get arrested for a law passed and is broken by you. You get a lawyer and this lawyer is either paid by you if you can afford to pay, if not, one will be assigned to you and will be paid by the state with taxes paid to the state.
The lawers today need to have a income and these laws are passed to keep the lawers off of welfare.
Most laws passed today are unconstituional and / or take the rights away from we citizens. Yet it has to be fought by lawyers. Either way a lawer does get paid.
The ARRL and the FCC, you have no control over so stop your beefing and get on with life.
Every person place or thing is responsible for their own doings and if you do not like the way it is going, you delete. Lawyers are aristocrats and love power and control over people.
If and when you vote, vote for the individual that will serve you best and not the party.
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 27, 2005
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Mail this to a friend!
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Remember that for every law passed, there is some-one making money on that law.
Try thinking of this: You get arrested for a law passed and is broken by you. You get a lawyer and this lawyer is either paid by you if you can afford to pay, if not, one will be assigned to you and will be paid by the state with taxes paid to the state.
The lawers today need to have a income and these laws are passed to keep the lawers off of welfare.
Most laws passed today are unconstituional and / or take the rights away from we citizens. Yet it has to be fought by lawyers. Either way a lawer does get paid.
The ARRL and the FCC, you have no control over so stop your beefing and get on with life.
Every person place or thing is responsible for their own doings and if you do not like the way it is going, you delete. Lawyers are aristocrats and love power and control over people.
If and when you vote, vote for the individual that will serve you best and not the party.
.:
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W6TH on March 27, 2005
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Sorry about this, but I only clicked one time and the rest was a Jackpot.
Sorry.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K4RAF on March 27, 2005
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"NO DSL because they are not interested in anything but business lines."
This is simply not true. DSL has built-in limitations placed on it by old copperline telco infrastructure & the physics of degradation-over-distance.
We are ~15 air miles from the nearest cable or DSL territory. Most people don't understand that IF they have any choice of something beside dialup, that is one more choice than we have in rural America. Wireless is about our only delivery option beside moving.
BPL whinebags simply don't understand that fiber & wireless have already beat BPL. It just feels good to sit around posting nonsense when no one has a clue what it takes to deliver results, not insults. The only network the ARRL has built is built on disinformation, emotion & distortion. The FCC knows it & time will prove that BPL is the BetaMax of internet delivery BUT the major infrastructure components are in place to serve areas unable to take advantage of other current delivery platforms. Simple as that...
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KG4DXS on March 27, 2005
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Perhaps no one has heard of the South Seas Trading Company. It was the BPL scam of the 18th century. "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Have a great day and C U on CW......kg4dxs
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on March 27, 2005
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N4VOX said "a lot less equipment and costs than running cable."
Not really, for BPL it takes a "repeater" every quarter mile or so...each repeater costs 1000-5000 dollars each...so do the math...it isn't cheap...
N4VOX said "read the article. Not one word in it about BPL. "
Then you are obviously clueless as to what BPL is...this is an article about the person that has the patent on the technology....and how he scammed everyone in to believing it would work....
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on March 27, 2005
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KB9YZL said "The issue isn’t technical feasibility, …..it’s “Political Expediency”! BPL is just another item on a distinguished list of non-functional, but politically desirable ideas!"
Kent...BPL is a SCAM...perpetrated by a person named William Luke Stewart...he scammed alot of BIG political heavyweights, and they are just now realizing what he did....it won't be long until the whole BPL thing comes crashing down...it's already started, and indictments have been issued in South Carolina for investor fraud....their will be no "Political Expediency" with this issue....the politicians won't touch this once they find out the truth....
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on March 27, 2005
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N4VOX, here another interesting article about the BPL scam....
http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/2004/03/22/story5.html
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K3NG on March 27, 2005
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"I asked whatever happened to human decency and kindness and get venom spewed back at me. Kind of drives home the point, doesn't it?"
Human decency and kindness aren't the same thing as getting something for free that you can do for yourself in the first place. The ARRL has done plenty for hams for free, they just didn't do what you wanted them to do at the moment.
"Calls me a sucker and yet shells out a membership fee to get a magazine. hahaha! "
So I guess they should give out the magazine for free, too? Better go tell the villians at CQ magazine to stop charging for their publications while you're at it.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on March 27, 2005
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RADIO123US;
Of course I know BPL is a scam: ….I said as much in my earlier posts.
My main point was, and remains, that our “Elected Leaders” do not need, or care about; truth, technical detail, or practical functionality in their policies and platforms: ….They simply need things that sound good.
You said: >>”....there will be no "Political Expediency" with this issue...”<<
Well, ….perhaps not now, but at an earlier point in the program, they all obviously thought so! …….Otherwise how do you explain the way they all flocked to it like crows on a fresh road-kill?
You went on to say: >>” ....the politicians won't touch this once they find out the truth....”<<
Here I think you miss the mark: They don’t’ give an “Obese Rodent’s Posterior” about “The Truth”.
The situation would be much more accurately described if you said; “ …The politicians won’t touch this ONCE THE TRUTH GETS OUT!”. They are perfectly willing to help defraud the American People, just so long as they’re not caught in a position devoid of “Plausible Deniability”.
We really have very similar views on this: …The only difference is that you give “Our Leaders” far more credit (at least by implication) than I do. I learned long ago that the finest traditions of P.T. Barnum are alive and well, ….and living in Washington!
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by N4VOX on March 27, 2005
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Radio you have a problem. BPL is up and working at multiple sites. It is causing interference with ham radio and that is why the ARRL is complaining to the FCC. But the BPL is working. You have submitted nothing that talks about the operating BPL systems. You only zero in on the person that got the patent. Show me one factual, leaving out un-named sources, that prove BPL is not working and I will eat crow pie. Until then, enjoy yours.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on March 27, 2005
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N4VOX said "Show me one factual, leaving out un-named sources, that prove BPL is not working and I will eat crow pie. "
I did not say BPL is NOT working...I did say it doesn't work very well compared to the other options...the controversy regarding interference and it's POOR performance will ultimately kill it....wireless companies like Verizon are slowly putting the nails in BPL's coffin now....
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on March 27, 2005
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By the way, N4VOX, you might want to do a little web search on Starband....looks like you could get broadband via satellite for around 49-69 dollars a month depending on what plan you choose....once again, another nail in BPL's coffin....
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by AC7DX on March 27, 2005
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All license free with 1 box top from fruit-loops and 50 cents. No code, no study, no intelligence, no waiting in line
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by NC9K on March 27, 2005
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The rise of BPL is predictable in Amerika as it moves away from Aristotle (reason) and towards Plato (mysticism). The impending crash of the dollar and the resultant choas will only cause a shrill public outcry for "order". I too vote Libertarian and not for what is being done to our country.
BPL or some other form of broadband will ultimately allow for "security" cameras as well as retinal identification systems in every home. And the demopublican regime will provide the "security". Interested in the endgame? Read "The Ominous Parallels" by Dr. Leonard Peikoff ( http://www.peikoff.com/op/home.htm )
and then revist Orwell's 1984 and the films "The Handmaid's Tale" and "Fortress". This is not the America envisioned by its founding fathers.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by WA3KYY on March 28, 2005
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N4VOX said:
"Radio said that Cable,DSL and satellite are the way to go. You don't live where I live. Less than 10% of the homes in the county are served by cable or DSL. Satellite is over $90 per month. BPL will be well received as I am sure it will be faster than the poor service we now get from telephone lines. The fastest I can ever get is 24K. I don't like BPL, and will suffer just like you, but I know many neighbors that look forward to better internet service. To them BPL will save the day.
I hope that someone is working on a way to speed up service over poor quality telephone lines or we are doomed to live with BPL"
I don't want to disappoint you OM but it is doubtful BPL will reach you either. A BPL operator at a meeting at Columbia University a few weeks ago on broadband alternatives stated BPL is not the answer for rural areas. If it is not cost effective to do cable or DSL it is not cost effective to do BPL either. WiFi or WiMax systems will probably be the solution in your area. Some of these systems have coverage footprints with radii of 30 miles. Either that or fiber direct to the home. Any service provider would be running fiber a good portion of the way to begin with, might as well run it all the way.
At the same meeting the industry reps all agreed the major broadband players for the future were wireless and fiber or a mixture of fiber and coax. Of the 70 or so attendees, only 2 or 3 indicated they would think of investing in BPL.
73,
Mike WA3KYY
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K4RAF on March 28, 2005
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"you might want to do a little web search on Starband"
It all looks good on paper but is not as popular in the field. Why?
First, the cost of the equipment. They don't just give it to you for subscribing. Lightning strikes it & you have to pay to replace it. Over $500...
Rain fade & latency are free bonuses. Anyone who knows satellite cable dies when heavy rain appears on the horizon, will know it does for Starband or DirecPC as well.
Something to consider is that any weather radar access will die when you need it most. Skywarn spotters & weather junkies beware!
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on March 28, 2005
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****Human decency and kindness aren't the same thing as getting something for free that you can do for yourself in the first place. The ARRL has done plenty for hams for free, they just didn't do what you wanted them to do at the moment.****
Well, if it's free for me isn't it free for the ARRL? They're mailing a packet of test results and renewals, right? How much more would it cost them to slip mine in the pile? Maybe a penny? Maybe! This is the organization that tells me that I need to be a member to get the most from my amateur radio experience. I know this because I've received tons of their junk mailings. These people are soliciting memberships and yet represent themselves as total jerk-offs to potential members. Counterproductive, isn't it?
I realize that this entire discussion is pointless. I learned a long time ago that arguing with a christian fanatic only made them more fanantical and the same applies to fanatical members of any organization. Most ARRL members think that their beloved institution is beyond reproach and no matter what I say......I lose. They'll never see "the beam in their own eye." No one likes to think that they have paid hundreds(maybe even thousands) of dollars to some organization only to find out that ultimately that organization is full of crap. Goes against human nature. It's always better to attack the lone antagonist than the sacred cow that you have grown so attached to.
I've been a radio operator for lo these past 20 years and have never belonged to one organization and yet, somehow, I'm still operating with zero infringement upon my operating rights. Is that all because of the ARRL? No. That's because of the FCC and their respect(although it's fading) of my hobby. The ARRL has never gone to bat for me NOR do I need anyone to do so. I'll be a radio operator even when it's illegal to do so. I'm not a momma's boy that needs a big brother to speak for me. I do things on my own and face the consequences of my actions if my actions are illegal.
But......
When it comes to respecting my fellow amateur operators and committing acts of decency when I see that it could really help someone out.....I'm primo. I never leave anyone out in the cold or hanging because of their affiliation or lack thereof.
Let's see the ARRL's record where that's concerned.
KC5CQD
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FCC Bans BNC/TNC Antenna Connectors Under Part 15
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by N0IU on March 29, 2005
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Here is how the FCC is spending their time and your money:
The Federal Communications Commission’s (FCC’s) Office of Equipment and Technology (OET) has issued a Public Notice restricting the use of certain antenna connectors effective October 1st, 2004.
In the past, a variety of "non-standard" connectors, including MMCX, MCX, and reverse polarity, SMA, BNC and TNC type antenna connectors, were authorized by the Commission for use in connecting antennas with unlicensed transmitters under Part 15. Since these types of connectors were not readily available, the Commission considered them to be "unique couplings," and permitted their use without professional installation.
However, in a Public Notice dated May 22nd, the Commission acknowledged that most of these connectors are now widely available, undercutting the original intention of the FCC’s rule, and accordingly restricted their use in future applications.
Here is Section 15.203 -
An intentional radiator shall be designed to ensure that no antenna other than that furnished by the responsible party shall be used with the device. The use of a permanently attached antenna or of an antenna that uses a unique coupling to the intentional radiator shall be considered sufficient to comply with the provisions of this Section. The manufacturer may design the unit so that a broken antenna can be replaced by the user, but the use of a standard antenna jack or electrical connector is prohibited. This requirement does not apply to carrier current devices or to devices operated under the provisions of Sections 15.211, 15.213, 15.217, 15.219, or 15.221. Further, this requirement does not apply to intentional radiators that must be professionally installed, such as perimeter protection systems and some field disturbance sensors, or to other intentional radiators which, in accordance with Section 15.31(d), must be measured at the installation site. However, the installer shall be responsible for ensuring that the proper antenna is employed so that the limits in this Part are not exceeded.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by N4VOX on March 29, 2005
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KC5QCD, the ARRL does not put a bunch of forms in an envelope and mail it to the FCC. The ARRL must have a paid employee enter the information into the FCC by computer link. It is very time consuming, especially if the person has not created a federal id number.
The FCC is moving away from paper. As I said before do it yourself it is free. YOu can use it to change your address or to renew your license. Doing it yourself means that you don't have to give your social security number out to strangers.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W9WHE-II on March 29, 2005
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The author writes:
"Looks to me like politics has totally replaced technology at the FCC".
Actually, its economics.
Time for a reality check. BPL, if it works, holds the promise to bring cheap internet service to 100 million citizens (and illegals that vote). On the other hand, you have 700,000 or so "hobbyists" griping. That's 142 voters to each griping hobbyist. Get the picture? The "potential" economic benifits outweigh the "harm". Now, I don't like it anymore then you do. But that is the reality.
Because ARRL choose to try to kill BPL, as opposed to cooperate and influence the standards, we are now in a totally advasarial position to BPL. We would have been much better off being part of the process instead of being shut out of the standards process as we are now. Let's hope BPL is grossly oversold or our noise floor is going up.
W9WHE
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by WA3KYY on March 29, 2005
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W9WHE wrote:
"We would have been much better off being part of the process instead of being shut out of the standards process as we are now."
This is false. The ARRL has a voting seat on the technical standards committee. This information was posted on the ARRL Web site months ago.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W9WHE-II on March 29, 2005
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My friend, when you try to kill off a technology, you loose your presumption/position of objectivity/neutrality with respect to that technology. Thus, after you try to kill off a technology, your "persuasive" capital has been spent. Everyone on the comittee knows you are biased, the technology's advocates are no longer willing to co-operate and negociate with you.
Sure, you might get your vote...but your cards have been played.
W9WHE
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K3NG on March 29, 2005
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"The ARRL has never gone to bat for me "
The WARC bands and 60 meters exist today due to the efforts of the ARRL. Arguably, the existence of ham radio as we know it and all the HF bands we maintained after the 30's and WWII were due to the ARRL. But the "jerkoffs" wouldn't handle your mail to the FCC, so I guess you're entitled to make the above statement. :-)
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K4RAF on March 29, 2005
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"The ARRL must have a paid employee enter the information into the FCC by computer link"
Your "membership" dollars at work. I thought "professional amateur" was an oxy-moron.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on March 29, 2005
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****KC5QCD, the ARRL does not put a bunch of forms in an envelope and mail it to the FCC. The ARRL must have a paid employee enter the information into the FCC by computer link. It is very time consuming, especially if the person has not created a federal id number.
The FCC is moving away from paper. As I said before do it yourself it is free. YOu can use it to change your address or to renew your license. Doing it yourself means that you don't have to give your social security number out to strangers.****
I can see your point and I am understanding of that fact. Maybe I just took it all ultra-personal whenever that incident occurred. It kind of took the wind out of my sails where the ARRL was concerned. I, probably naively, thought that we were all "family" and that I would be treated like "family" by my fellow licensed operators. I now see your point. Money always is the bottom line. That's not a bad thing or a knock. Just a sad fact of life.
I apologize if I came across like a raving a$$hole. I am more just pi$$ed off at what happened and.....like it always does.....time will take care of it.
73's
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on March 29, 2005
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****The WARC bands and 60 meters exist today due to the efforts of the ARRL. Arguably, the existence of ham radio as we know it and all the HF bands we maintained after the 30's and WWII were due to the ARRL. But the "jerkoffs" wouldn't handle your mail to the FCC, so I guess you're entitled to make the above statement. :-)****
I don't use the WARC bands nor do I have any interest in them so your arguement is a moot point as far as I'm concerned.
I was brought up in radio by my father and grandfather and I'm a staunch user of 40m, 20m, 15m, 11m(yep) and 10m. So, thanks but no thanks, ARRL.
But.....
If you'll read my previous post you'll see that I do concede that maybe I just took that whole incident a little too personally. I'll concede that not all ARRL members are jerk-offs but that what happened on that day at the Pacificon was generally just a "crappy thing to do" to a fellow ham. Maybe the ARRL should start working to improve its bedside manner.
Enough said and no hard feelings.
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W5ESE on March 30, 2005
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ARRL has done quite alot to benefit amateur radio,
generally. After World War I (when amateur radio
was banned), the government would have been quite
happy to maintain the ban indefinitely. Hiram P
Maxim and other League leadership went to bat
(largely at their own expense) to get the ban
lifted.
Many other countries in the world couldn't really
see any need for amateur radio, and some (like
Great Britain) were suspicious that it
circumvented state-owned monopolies. The British
representative to one of the early frequency
allocation conferences thought 50-100 kHz or so
would be ample spectrum for the Amateur Radio
Service. The US delegation, influenced by the
League, pushed for the wider allocations we
enjoy today.
I'm not a mindless apologist for the ARRL (please
read my March 25 comment on this article), but to
say they've never done anything for you is not
accurate. Read '200 Meters and Down' and be
prepared for a fascinating story of Amateur
Radio's earliest days.
73
Scott
W5ESE
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by AE1X on March 30, 2005
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My friend, when you try to kill off a technology, you loose your presumption/position of objectivity/neutrality with respect to that technology. Thus, after you try to kill off a technology, your "persuasive" capital has been spent. Everyone on the comittee knows you are biased, the technology's advocates are no longer willing to co-operate and negociate with you.
Sure, you might get your vote...but your cards have been played.
W9WHE
Look you seem to always have a hair across you posterior concerning what ARRL does or does not do for this community. Either you have not followed the entire thread or you're choosing your points to argue over. In your case, I'm sure it's selecting points to argue over.
The interference issue is the issue. The ARRL and many other individuals and groups are not interested in killing this technology, but forcing it to live up to the false statements it has made to get the politicos to back it.
Part 15 says NO HARMFUL INTERFERENCE and it must either mean it or the FCC is choosing to ignore it or maybe they plan to set an interference floor below which we will have not say in the signal used by BPL. Either way, our community needs a deserves a clear statement from the FCC concerning what the changes to Part 15 actually mean so we act according and hold the FCC and the industry to whatever standard is set. At this point no standard is in place other than international accepted standard that says that HARMFUL INTERFERENCE is anything that repeatedly disrupts and prevents communications by a licensed service. In this case, BPL is not a licensed service and has no right to case interference.
Killing this technology may be the only way to prevent or eliminate the HARMFUL INTERFERENCE that has been experienced by amateurs at the trial sites. Ed Hare, W1RFI is on the IEEE standards committee developing standards for this technology. He is a reasonable person, who will put the best interests of all parties into his considerations. I think that your statments about having no creditable voice in this matter is erroneous and does not meet up with the reality.
Ken
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K4JF on March 30, 2005
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<Time for a reality check. BPL, if it works, holds the promise to bring cheap internet service to 100 million citizens (and illegals that vote). >
No, HERE is a reality check: There are less than 300 million people in this country. Already, over 95% of them have internet access if they want. (They have a phone and/or they have a view of the sky.) To say that BPL would be the only internet access to 40% of the population is so extreme it is ridiculous. Also the "cheap" moniker is bogus. Everything I have read shows BPL will be as expensive, or more, compared to satellite, cable, BPL and all the many other methods of access curently available. Cable is available to the overwhelming majority of people and cable internet will cost less and be more reliable.
There really is no good reason to promote BPL: it really is a flawed technology (using the term "technology" loosely). Even if it works, it will not reach such inflated levels as noted above. And there is no good reason to believe it will work - it hasn't yet.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by NN6EE on March 30, 2005
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Speaking of what's next with the FCC, what's the OPINION out here among the chosen few as far as DEREGULATION is concerned??? What's your feelings about "Grand-Fathering" in the present "NO-CODE TECHs" to GENERAL, and moving the ADV. class to EXTRA???
This outta be interesting!!!
:-)))
Jim/nn6ee
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by AE1X on March 30, 2005
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I believe this will happen, but not until at least late next year. This is not a priority for the FCC.
Ken
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by AB5XZ on March 30, 2005
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I hope the new Chairman has better sense than Mr. Powell.
Mr. Powell couldn't tell when he was breaking the law by participating in an ex parte meeting.
Mr. Powell couldn't tell the difference between technical regulations and all the rest. Technical regulations have to make some technical sense, and the others don't have to make any sense at all. So Mr. Powell's approach was to ignore the technical part of BPL and focus on the business benefit.
I hope also that the new Chairman has enough sense to get rid of some of the boneheads in the Office of Engineering and Technology (they're not all boneheads, but there are some obvious ones).
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by AE1X on March 30, 2005
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The reallity is that BPL will be available to more than 40% of the population, but will they connect to it over other services? They problem is that the utilities are really interested in BPL for their own applications and are looking to get the public to foot the bill. Manassas is using their network to control traffic lights and street lights and plans to use it for remote metering of homes.
Will it reach this level of implementation? I don't have a sufficiently clear crystal ball with which to make such a prognostication.
Ken
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by NN6EE on March 30, 2005
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Gentlemen!!!
Have'nt you also NOTICED how the FCC EXPECTS ALL HAM RADIO OPERATORS TO ABIDE BY "PART 97" rules and regs. but yet when it comes to BPL and "PART 15" THEY TOTALLY IGNORE the LAWS put into place BY THEMSELVES concerning "gross interference" created by BPL and claim that it's the greatest invention since sliced bread???
TALKING ABOUT "PURE B.S"!!!
Jim/nn6ee
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on March 30, 2005
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NN6EE:
You wrote: >>”Speaking of what's next with the FCC, what's the OPINION out here among the chosen few as far as DEREGULATION is concerned??? What's your feelings about "Grand-Fathering" in the present "NO-CODE TECHs" to GENERAL, and moving the ADV. class to EXTRA???”<<
Hmmmm………..Let’s see; …….how did that theme from “Rawhide” go?
……..Oh Yeah! …I remember now! …..”Trollin’ …. Trollin’ …. Trollin’ ….”
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on March 30, 2005
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****I'm not a mindless apologist for the ARRL (please
read my March 25 comment on this article), but to
say they've never done anything for you is not
accurate. Read '200 Meters and Down' and be
prepared for a fascinating story of Amateur
Radio's earliest days.****
Hey!.....I've already made my apologies and excuses for my previous posts. I think that was pretty damned big of me to do so and the least you could have done was to respect that and leave it the hell alone. But no. Typical mindless ARRL flunkie that you are, you just had to add insult to injury.
Listen up folks and let's get one thing straight. I ain't the average radio operator. I do operate within the legal limits of the law but if that is stripped from me then I'll just be an outlaw radio operator. I don't need anyone to "go to bat" for me and my radio rights because honestly, I just don't give a fuque!!!
The FCC and their international couterparts have shown again and again how ineffective they truly are and so most of us with gonads have little or no fear of them. I have NO FEAR of them.
I'll stay within the legal boundaries as long as they please me. When they don't, I'll operate however in the hell I wish to operate and good luck to them on catching and prosecuting me!!
See? I don't need the ARRL to be a radio operator. If I'm forced to be a pirate then I'll be a pirate!
That's called being an individual. I don't need a gang to take care of me. Especially a geek squad like the ARRL! hihihi!!!
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by AE1X on March 31, 2005
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See? I don't need the ARRL to be a radio operator. If I'm forced to be a pirate then I'll be a pirate!
That's called being an individual. I don't need a gang to take care of me. Especially a geek squad like the ARRL! hihihi!!!
KC5CQD
This statement and the entire post indicates to me that you are already a freebander and proud of it. Apparently, you are not a radio amateur the true sense. You are one when it suits you. You, sir, are an anarchist and a danger to organized society. May humbly suggest you drop your ticket and continue operating. Then we can see how ineffective the ARRL OO and FCC are and see you get the same treatment Gerritsen is in the process of getting. He seems to feel the same way you do in some respects.
Amateur radio for the most part has a good name. We have been on this type of bubble before and survived. The true practitioners will survive by adjusting to the regulations and going about their business. There will still be plenty of opportunities to explore radio technology it may just not include HF and Low VHF.
I would like to point out to you that the FCC is still trying to gain for our service a LF allocation similar to that in Europe. We will have to overcome the opposition of the electrical utilities to achieve an allocation, but FCC is persuing this as part of its WRC07 preparations, so it appears FCC is still looking out for our service, but again is interested in putting our services in places with little commercial interest so that we can develop technologies to exploit them as we have in the past.
ARRL was founded to organize those interested in traffic relaying. This was done because we did not have the technologies or the spectrum to span the continent at the time. We find ourselves in similar situation once again with BPL and all the pressure being brought to bare to find spectrum for all the wonderful wireless advances that are in the commerical pipe line. Our emergency traffic handling may have to be moved to less desirable spectrum with only short range capabilities. Should this be a limit to what our service can do in an emergency? It wasn't a limiting factor in the distant past should it be today? I think not. I may just take a decision by those with a true interest to adapt to whatever the regulations permit.
Frankly 5CQD, amateur radio does need you kind. Kindly remove yourself to the pirate bands and leave amateur radio those that will continue to thrive in whatever environment FCC provides for it.
Ken
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W9WHE-II on March 31, 2005
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K4JF writes:
"There really is no good reason to promote BPL: it really is a flawed technology ...... And there is no good reason to believe it will work - it hasn't yet"
REALITY CHECK #1:
If you believe this, why get so worked up?
After all, if nobody wants it, nobody needs it, and it will not work, why all the concern? It will not succeed.
REALITY CHECK #2:
CEOs of billion dollar corps. might know a little more about these issues then we do. You don't get to run a multi-billion dollar corp by being STUPID and loosing money.
REALITY CHECK #3:
There are large swaths of the US that do not have access to high speed internet access. In many of the areas that do, its expensive. COMPETITION will drive down those costs.
REALITY CHECK #4:
If nobody needs or wants BPL, and it won't work anyway, it will die on its own. The fact is that it might just work. (But let's hope not). Its going forward, so its time to focus on standards, or risk being shut out.
REALITY CHECK #5:
We hams need to recognize political and economic reality, and adjust accordingly. We lack the clout to kill things like this. We need to find ways to keep it from harming our hobby. Being dogmatic, closed minded and overconfident are loosing stratagies. Let's not be on the loosing end of this.
W9WHE
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by AE1X on March 31, 2005
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W9WHE,
If we stand back a let it happen, we will have no one to blame but ourselves. We must fight this with all of our resources and then settle back adjust to the new environment. It does not do us any good to just do nothing. In action during at time of war only leads to severe losses until things are righted.
We must take the high road in this debate and stick to the technical elements of this issue. We do not have the expertise amoungst us to fight this in any other way other than in the press which I sure is part of the plan.
We have faced this type of threat before and will again. We will have somewhere to go, but it may not be on the HF bands and our VHF/UHF allocations are under attack daily by the many interests that represent all the new technologies under development.
Concerning the CEOs and other high power business people, they really don't care about the affects of BPL on HF spectrum users. These people could care less about pollution of the air and water either and only are doing something about it because it is the law. The law also says they must do something about the EMI from their systems, but the inability of or lack of interest by the FCC is enboldening them to brush us asside. We must keep the heat on FCC to enforce their regulations and keep pounding away at the problems with technology or we will lose for sure.
Ken
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by AE1X on March 31, 2005
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Concerning the strategy that will be employed. The ARRL is working this with the intent of taking this to the Federal Courts to require FCC to enforce its regulations.
What can we do? We have to continue to use every opportunity to provide real data to FCC for the record and to the public through a good solid and respectful education campaign and hope that this will work.
One thing I have seen from the financial status of the equipment providers is that they serious need new capital to keep them in business and the FCC is fully aware of this fact. I believe this is way they have been in so much of a hurry to provide some regulatory relief for this nascent industry. It is on the edge of either exploding or collapsing entirely and its the equipment development industry that is in the biggest trouble right now. They know that they have competition that will blow them away unless they are able to manage to push this technology into high gear. I can tell you the marketing industry is doing its part to push this into high gear.
Ken
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W9WHE-II on March 31, 2005
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Ken:
You write:
The law also says they must do something about the EMI from their systems".
So many internet lawyers.
You assume that Part 15's prohibition on "harmful interference" is not rewritten or that special standards are not created for a "new class" of device. I have said all along that reliance on Part 15 is risky, because new/different standards can be prommulgvated at any time. Only fools bet the farm on rules that can change at any time at the whims of regulators.
Please do not misunderstand. I have never suggested do nothing. I have and continue to suggest that the focus should be on STANDARDS. I believe that ONLY there can the battle be won. But the almightly, all seeing, all knowing, omnipitent ARRL knows better. Time will tell.
"
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by AE1X on March 31, 2005
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W9WHE,
HARMFUL INTERFERENCE is defined in international treaties to which the United States is a party. The redefinition of this will require the US to go a WRC for a change this important term. The earliest this can occur is 2007.
I understand that we should not rely solely on flimsy regulations that can change. You must understand also that the regulation I'm using is in Federal Law not just regulation. The required change will require the above mentioned redefinition in international treaty and then require radification and enactment. This will take years. During that time, this is the frame work that is in place.
The ARRL is taking every road open to combat this menance. Ed Hare, W1RFI, is on the IEEE standards committee representing all of us as best he can, but this can not be the only place to make an effort.
There needs to be a continue vigilance in the field. We need to continue gathering data supporting our position and articulating it where appropriate. There needs to a major effort at all levels to educate appropriate officials concerning the affects of this on all communications systems and how identify it and report it as interference so the true scope of the problem will appear in the record.
Once the record is clear, ARRL can take its case to the Federal Court to insure the FCC follows its own regulations. If they choose to ignore complaints or take action against us because they don't feel our case has been made, it will be the courts that will be the proper venue for handling this issue.
This problem must be handled in a multiple number of ways and it must be done in a professional manner or we will loose the last of our good reputation. I hope you agree with what I have said and will support it from the outside of ARRL, since you are not an ARRL member or supporter.
Ken
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W9WHE-II on March 31, 2005
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Ken:
You internet lawyers allways amaze me!
Your posting so so full of mistaken conclusions, I feel compelled to dispell them. You write:
"HARMFUL INTERFERENCE is defined in international treaties to which the United States is a party. The redefinition of this will require the US to go a WRC for a change this important term"
Incorrect. Treaties between sovern nations govern relations between sovern nations, not internally with its own citizens. Think a US citizen can take the FCC to the "world court" based upon an international treaty? Guess again. Even if the Euro-weenes take the case, the US will ignore it as an infringement upon US sovernty.
"You must understand also that the regulation I'm using is in Federal Law not just regulation"
Nope. There is no practicle difference between Federal Law and Federal Regulation. 47 C.F.R. 97 (The ham rules) are federal regulations. Because they are enacted by FCC (which has been given the authority by the communications act of 1934) they are federal law. You cite a distinction without a difference.
"Once the record is clear, ARRL can take its case to the Federal Court to insure the FCC follows its own regulations".
Incorrect. The record is not the issue. Nobody can take FCC to court until AFTER all administrative relief with FCC has been exausted.
"I hope you agree with what I have said and will support it from the outside of ARRL, since you are not an ARRL member or supporter"
Well, I've made my position clear already. No need to repeat myself. But I do hope that you will give up your internet lawyering. You are spreading incorrect information that others may think is accurate.
W9WHE
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What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC8YYO on March 31, 2005
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Well I guess we have to play the game. What gets the most done in politics, fair or not? I'll answer that, lobbiest! Ham lobbiests won't hurt and would probly help. Hey if you had someone knocking at your door all the time you would do something about it wouldn't ya?
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by AE1X on March 31, 2005
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Okay,
I'll refrain from further statements without checking my source to be sure.
W9WHE:
Well, I've made my position clear already. No need to repeat myself. But I do hope that you will give up your internet lawyering. You are spreading incorrect information that others may think is accurate.
This last statement is precisely what is wrong with all the statements made by the industry and what we are trying to combat.
Thank you for a reasonable debate with a clear outcome. I've learn something and will proceed to benefit from the debate. This is wonderful change from some the contentious exchanges we have engaged in previously.
Regards...
Ken
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W9WHE-II on April 1, 2005
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Ken:
"Thank you for a reasonable debate with a clear outcome. I've learn something and will proceed to benefit from the debate"
Thank you. It was my pleasure.
"This is wonderful change from some the contentious exchanges we have engaged in previously"
I agree. Absent the personal attacks, reasonable, intellectual, and cordial debate rules the day!
W9WHE
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K4JF on April 1, 2005
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REALITY CHECK #1:
If you believe this, why get so worked up?
After all, if nobody wants it, nobody needs it, and it will not work, why all the concern? It will not succeed.
REAL reality check: Just because it is flawed doesn't mean it won't be pushed and bandied about as "greatest thing since sliced bread". There are thousands of examples of this kind of folly. Look how many people voted for Kerry!
REALITY CHECK #2:
You don't get to run a multi-billion dollar corp by being STUPID and loosing money.
REAL reality check: Actually, yes, you do. Read Dilbert sometimes, most of the stupidities there are sent in by real people. You might also want to check on the CEOs of Enron and a few others. You can find them in Federal prison. Most corporations nowadays are run by lawyers or accountants - with absolutely NO engineering training.
REALITY CHECK #3:
There are large swaths of the US that do not have access to high speed internet access. In many of the areas that do, its expensive. COMPETITION will drive down those costs.
REAL reality check: Wrong. There is very little of the US that doesn't have access to cable television OR a view of the Southern sky. And there is no reason to believe that BPL will be less expensive than cable, DSL, or satellite. Plus: very few people really NEED high-speed access. Dial-up is just fine for most people. Touting high-speed as the ONLY internet access is just BS. BPL is not even promoted as bringing internet to anyone that doesn't have access already.
REALITY CHECK #4:
If nobody needs or wants BPL, and it won't work anyway, it will die on its own. The fact is that it might just work. (But let's hope not). Its going forward, so its time to focus on standards, or risk being shut out.
REAL reality check: Standards on just how much of wireless communications is going to be polluted are not what is needed. Eliminiation of the unnecessary pollution is a much better goal.
REALITY CHECK #5:
We hams need to recognize political and economic reality, and adjust accordingly. We lack the clout to kill things like this. We need to find ways to keep it from harming our hobby. Being dogmatic, closed minded and overconfident are loosing stratagies. Let's not be on the losing end of this.
REAL reality check: Maybe we lack the clout to kill it alone. But there are plenty of others with a stake in this. We should be recruiting them and working in concert to kill it, as well as on our own.
Personally, I have already contacted my electric provider, and my Congressman on this problem. Have you?
One ham(?) has stated that BPL is "cool". I beg to differ. This is the 21st century: pollution is not cool.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K4JF on April 1, 2005
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<Treaties between sovern nations govern relations between sovern nations, not internally with its own citizens.>
Actually, that is not correct. Treaties can and do affect individual citizens. Try to build a campfire on one of the many UN World Heritage wilderness sites in the US and see what happens. The Supreme Court of the United States has even ruled that treaties can override the Constitution. Try to find a copy of "The Fearful Master", a book banned by the UN, not the US.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K4JF on April 1, 2005
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<Treaties between sovern nations govern relations between sovern nations, not internally with its own citizens.>
Actually, that is not correct. Treaties can and do affect individual citizens. Try to build a campfire on one of the many UN World Heritage wilderness sites in the US and see what happens. The Supreme Court of the United States has even ruled that treaties can override the Constitution. Try to find a copy of "The Fearful Master", a book banned by the UN, not the US.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by WB9OMC on April 1, 2005
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KC5CQD's post set off some bells, and I checked with
a gentleman at NCVEC (the national VEC group
coordinating body) about that business with the
ARRL group refusing to process his paperwork because
he isn't an ARRL member.
The gentleman responded that "....no VE group can
refuse to submit testing paperwork because of any
applicant membership in (or lack thereof) in any
group, PERIOD. That's the rules."
So, I hauled out my copy of "The ARRL's FCC
Rule Book" and looked int he .500 section of
47 CFR 97 (which covers the VE system) and
found 97.521 (d) which states that in order to
be eligible as a VEC, an entity must:
"Agree to assure that, for any examination, every
examinee qualified under these rules is registered
without regard to race, sex, religion, national
origin or membership (or lack thereof) in any
amateur service organization."
So taking KC5CQD at his word about what happened,
it would appear that the VE group at Pacificon
BROKE THE LAW. Barring any extenuating circumstances,
that is. I am not a VE, but I know that persons
in for a session are expected to follow some rules.
I *think* that individuals can be asked to leave
for failure to follow the directions of the VE's.
But this doesn't sound like what happened, and I
think that (barring evidence to the contrary)
KC5CQD has the right to file a complaint to NCVEC and
to the FCC.
I'd sure like to hear from someone who wa actually
there and representing this VE group to get THEIR
side of the story.
Duane
WB9OMC
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RE: Bogus Internet Lawyering
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by W9WHE-II on April 1, 2005
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KJ4F tries his hand at bogus internet lawyering, and writes:
"Treaties can and do affect individual citizens. Try to build a campfire on one of the many UN World Heritage wilderness sites in the US and see what happens"
What happens? You get arrested by a US cop, charged with violation of US FEDERAL LAW, draged into US FEDERAL COURT and prosecuted for violating a US Federal law. You DO NOT get dragged into the "world court" in the Hague and prosecuted by some euro-weeny, with a violation of some international treaty.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has even ruled that treaties can override the Constitution"
Give me a US Supreme Court Citation to this Holding. My guess is it does not exist and that you read some juberish written by some other internet lawyer that didn't know what he was talking about either!
You well-meaning, but entirely mistaken, internet lawyers are spreading false information that totally misleads people. Enough already!
W9WHE
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RE: Bogus Internet Lawyering
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by K4JF on April 1, 2005
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Nothing bogus about it. There is no US law covering U.N. Biosphere protection. It's UN law. There are many UN laws affecting us. You will be charged by a US officer working under UN law. That's a fact. We (the US) are charged with carrying out the implementation of the law because we are party to the treaty. Nobody said anything about going to The Hague.
And the court rulings stand. It's not internet - that ruling was long before whatsisname invented the internet.
Methinks a little research is in order on somebody's part before one discounts on account of one's opinion. Some are entirely too naive for this day and time.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 1, 2005
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Thank you, Duane.
I have no witnesses(except for my wife) to corroborate this story but here's exactly what happened;
I walked into the testing room and was asked if I was there to test? I said "no" and that I just needed to renew my license. I was handed the form and told to go fill it out. When I was done I approached the VE's and handed the form to them. One of them asked if I was an ARRL memeber to which I again replied, "No." I was told that it was an ARRL sponsored testing session and that "they would do what they could for me." A month later I received a packet from the ARRL asking me to be a member with my renewal form folded up inside. Apparently they couldn't forward it to the FCC but sending it back to me with a request for membership was no problem. Spare no expense when it comes to recruitment, huh?
Face it boys, your beloved ARRL dropped the ball on this and made you guys look like asses! I'm not saying this to personally attack anyone. You just need to see that your beloved institution ain't all it claims it is. My case should be painfully indicative of that point.
Bear in mind; the customer's alway right. I wasn't a member but I was always a potential member. Now? No way in hell would I ever join them and I'll tell my story to any prospective member for the rest of my life. How many will that persuade to not join? As I said before, maybe they should work on their bedside manner a little bit.
Sorry this opened up such a can of worms.
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by N4VOX on April 2, 2005
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Makes you look like a freeloader. We are adults, we need to learn to do for ourselves.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on April 2, 2005
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N4VOX;
You wrote; >>”Makes you look like a freeloader. We are adults, we need to learn to do for ourselves.”<<
You sound like someone’s mother: What exactly are you suggesting? As a single, individual, “adult”, what can you do to affect what transpires in Washington? Do you seriously believe that a single, solitary voice is heard?
One of the central themes of this thread is political reality: ……and that reality is that numbers and money count: ….individual “adults” don’t!
I understand perfectly what KC5CQD is saying: If the ARRL wants to be the voice of the ARS, then they have to “play the game”! …… I grew up in Chicago; where “The Game” is played by pros! In the “good old days’, a vote was at least worth a bucket of coal!
….And by the way, since when is it “Freeloading” to expect something in return for your vote? (Maybe not an altruistic viewpoint, ….but certainly a realistic one.)
Your comment makes you sound like a “Starry Eyed Idealist”. If you’re truly an adult, then deal with the realities!
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 2, 2005
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****Makes you look like a freeloader. We are adults, we need to learn to do for ourselves.****
Are you an ARRL member? I'm assuming by your responses that you are. If so, then why aren't you doing for yourself? Why do you need a group of like-minded individuals that have formed themselves into a "clan" to speak for you? I'm not a member of any radio group! But.....I respect all of them equally. Even the 11 meter operators.
So who's the better radioman? The one that tells people that don't belong to his gang to "quit being a freeloader." or the one that respects all operators no matter what their classification or affiliation?
Personally, guaging by your responses, I think you're a decent guy that has suddenly become disillusioned by his heroes(ARRL). I think you agree that I was treated quite $hitty by your beloved ARRL but you just can't find it in your heart to speak ill of them in a public venue. I don't fault you for that. It is a tough thing to do. Just quit responding to these posts and no further demands will be made of you and your integrity or the supposed integrity of your gang.
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 2, 2005
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****….And by the way, since when is it “Freeloading” to expect something in return for your vote? (Maybe not an altruistic viewpoint, ….but certainly a realistic one.)
Your comment makes you sound like a “Starry Eyed Idealist”. If you’re truly an adult, then deal with the realities!****
KB9YZL....
I think a lot of this may be my fault, also. I made the mistake of being a "starry-eyed idealist" that actually believed that we ham radio operators were a tight-knit and exclusive group that looked out for one another. Being a tradesman(electrician) I should have taken a lesson from the unions where this is concerned. It truly is every man for himself in this world. I just made the naive mistake of elevating amateur radio operators above that madness. Stupid me. Lesson learned.
Thanks for your post.
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 2, 2005
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****KC5CQD
This statement and the entire post indicates to me that you are already a freebander and proud of it. Apparently, you are not a radio amateur the true sense. You are one when it suits you. You, sir, are an anarchist and a danger to organized society. May humbly suggest you drop your ticket and continue operating. Then we can see how ineffective the ARRL OO and FCC are and see you get the same treatment Gerritsen is in the process of getting. He seems to feel the same way you do in some respects.****
No, I'm a legally licensed amateur radio operator just like yourself. I suppose that really sticks in your craw, huh? In fact, I'm one of the "old school" General Class licensees that had to pass the 13wpm cw test. Not that it means that much to me but I can see by the postings here at eham that it means everything to all of you old "hard-core" hams that continually attack the newbies.
My point was that I don't need anyone to speak for me. Is that so hard to digest? All I stated was that I do operate within the legal limits but.....BUT.....IF and when the day comes that my FCC begins to take away my radio operator's rights, well then I'll just have to become a pirate operator. So what's wrong with saying that? Are you such a blind fanatic to the U.S. government that you can't stop on occasion and question things? I love my country but I question ALL things. Most I agree with......and some I don't. When I don't agree with them.....I do my thing AND am willing to pay the consequences for not going along with the governments program.
Again, that's called individuality. A concept lost on the "sheeple" of the world.
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 2, 2005
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*****Frankly 5CQD, amateur radio does need you kind. Kindly remove yourself to the pirate bands and leave amateur radio those that will continue to thrive in whatever environment FCC provides for it.
Ken*****
You're right, Ken; amateur radio DOES need my kind. Thanks for the bolstering!!!
All bull$shit aside;
When you can somehow convince the FCC that I've done one damned thing wrong....when the FCC hauls me into court and spends hundreds of thousands of dollars and ten years prosecuting me for said "wrong thing".....then I'll relinquish my license. Until then you're just going to have to suck it up and realize that I'm just as legally licensed as you, my friend! Doesn't democracy suck sometimes?!?!?!? hihi!!
In fact, let's turn this around. Why don't you surrender your FCC ticket based upon the fact that you're a government mindless robot and lack any creativity and have never contributed any thought worthwhile to the amateur radio community. Nor, based upon your current activities, will you ever contribute anything in the future!! Unless of course the ARRL comes up with the idea first.
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on April 3, 2005
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KC5CQD said "IF and when the day comes that my FCC begins to take away my radio operator's rights, well then I'll just have to become a pirate operator. So what's wrong with saying that? "
CQD, I think Ken is right on this one...this is NOT the attitude that a Amateur Radio Operator should have....you are basically saying you will follow the rules as long as YOU agree with them....there are MANY good reasons to follow the law, and it DOES NOT mean you are a "mindless robot" if you choose to follow them...it means you have RESPECT for the system of government that our founding fathers set up....if you don't like this sytem, you have two choices...vote representatives that support your view into office, or LEAVE THE COUNTRY....Your attitude of disrespect for the law has no place in Amateur Radio....
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on April 3, 2005
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RADIO123US;
In response to KC5CQD’s posts you wrote: >>”....there are MANY good reasons to follow the law, and it DOES NOT mean you are a "mindless robot" if you choose to follow them...it means you have RESPECT for the system of government that our founding fathers set up....”<<
BAD EXAMPLE!
Our Founding Fathers would be shocked and horrified if they saw the bureaucratic cesspool our Government has become, and they would be genuinely “pissed” at us for allowing it to happen!
….Furthermore, let’s consider exactly what action our Founding Fathers took when they found the existing mass of English Law insufferable! ……THEY REVOLTED!
From the English (the existing government’s) point of view, they were all guilty of Treason! ……..a crime that carried the Death Penalty! In that day and age, it would have been tough to be a bigger criminal than that!
…….No, if you’re looking for examples of “Civil Obedience”, it would be best if you didn’t bring up “Our Founding Fathers”.
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by WB4TGT on April 3, 2005
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OH WELL I MADE A STATMENT TO CQD IN WHICH I AGREED WITH HIM AND ALSO 123 . NOW IM GETTING MAIL FROM BOTH TELLING ME IM NO GOOD. DONT YOU GUYS KNOWWHAT YOU REALLY MEAN.
UMMMMM GUESS ILL JUST NOT ANSWER ANYMORE THREADS . THEY GET COMMENTS WAY OUT OF THE ORIGINAL TEXT. ONE TIME I ASK ABOUT WHY MY NEW RADIO WOULDNT KEY UP MY AMP AS THE OLDER ONE DID. GUESS WHAT ,I WAS TOLD I HAD A CB AMP AND SOME OTHER KINDA JUNK AMP I WAS TRYING TO USE BEFOR E ALL WAS SAID AND DONE. REAL CRAZY. WHEEEEEE
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on April 3, 2005
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WB4TGT said "OH WELL I MADE A STATMENT TO CQD IN WHICH I AGREED WITH HIM AND ALSO 123 NOW IM GETTING MAIL FROM BOTH TELLING ME IM NO GOOD. "
I havn't sent you anything....if you are getting any email, it isn't from me...
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on April 3, 2005
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KB9YZL said "Our Founding Fathers would be shocked and horrified if they saw the bureaucratic cesspool our Government has become, and they would be genuinely “pissed” at us for allowing it to happen! "
Kent, while I agree our Government is BIG a bureacratic mess, this is still the very BEST country in the world. One of the reasons I do NOT support "civil disobediance" in CQD's example has ALOT to do with my own personal beliefs (check out I Peter 2:13)...while I may disagree with the Government when it comes to radio matters, I will NEVER willingly break the law because I disagree...that's where CQD has it wrong...REAL hams would NEVER support breaking the FCC rules under any circumstances...
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on April 3, 2005
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RADIO123.………
Well, ……….The first thing that I need to make clear is that I am not advocating anarchy: In our American Society, the responsible, adult course of action is to always try to work within the “system” as your first option. There are supposed to be procedures available that allow for the questioning and review of governmental practices.
There is, however, a problem: ………unfortunately, the system is no longer running on a “Level Playing Field”.
The crowd in Washington can whimsically pass any law they think they need to deal with day-to-day issues. A few of those passed are good; …..many are redundant, ….and many are just downright bad!
In today’s United States of America, small groups and individuals have neither the power or resources to bring flawed legislation up for review. We are simply stuck with it; …….and hence the problem: One “side” can pass all the laws they want, and the other “side” can do nothing about it!
I’m sure that you can see that sooner or later, the “loosing side” ends up completely hemmed in. What do you do then?
True “Civil Disobedience” is not about irresponsibility: Quite the contrary! In it’s pure, classic form, Civil Disobedience involves the intentional breaking of a law, and the willingness to accept any consequences for that action. True Civil Disobedience is a last resort, only used when there is no other way to bring a bad law up for general review.
We all need to keep in mind that laws are made by men, and are subject to all the shortcomings of their authors. The fact that a law is “On the Books” is not a guarantee that it even makes sense. A few years back, one of the New England States discovered, while doing some legislative housecleaning, that they still had a law on the books that declared “Weather Forecasting” to be a crime punishable by “Burning At The Stake“.
Yes, we live in a Society of Law! …..and yes, our first instinct and inclination should be to obey those laws! But remember one thing; ……….Blind Obedience has never been a good thing: ….Unless you really believe that “Arbeit Macht Frei”!
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by N4VOX on April 3, 2005
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WB9OBC, you certainly missed his complaint. First he did not take an examination, he was not refused to take an examination. Why would you go into all the detail about VEC and junk when this has nothing to do with exams.
He wanted the ARRL to do something for him that they offer to do for their members. The ARRL rightfully said, if you would like the benefit of membership here is an application. Now he never needed the ARRL nor any VEC or VE to get involved as he wanted to renew his license that anyone can do for free on the web. He can use the web to complain, but not to do for himself.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on April 3, 2005
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KB9YZL said "Yes, we live in a Society of Law! …..and yes, our first instinct and inclination should be to obey those laws! But remember one thing; ……….Blind Obedience has never been a good thing: "
Kent, I understand what you are saying, but you are missing my point here...CQD basically said he would willingly violate the FCC rules if the rules were changed and he didn't agree with it...that's NOT the "civil disobediance" you are referring to here....what CQD is suggesting is FREEBANDING....REAL hams don't do that...on a more GLOBAL scale, yes, SOMETIMES "civil disobediance" can bring about change...in CQD's case though, it is showing us a little bit about his character...
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by WB9OMC on April 3, 2005
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In spite of the absurd level of flamebaiting going
on with this topic I will respond to this item
directed at my post.
First, I seem to recall that CQD said he would have
gone to Pacificon anyway. As I see it, whether he
could have renewed his ticket on the web or not is
irrelevant. He did what he did and arguing about
whether he was silly to do it is a real waste of
time and is nothing but a sideshow to the main point.
Second, the ARRL is a VEC organization. Being a VEC
goes above and beyond your internal membership -
membership or not is irrelevant to serving as a VEC
organization and having VE groups located in any
town or city. I have gone to BOTH ARRL and W5YI
VE groups for renewals and upgrades - NEITHER of
these required that I be a member. The ONLY
requirement was that I filled out the paperwork,
provided them with the requested documentation and
paid whatever fee was appropriate. PERIOD.
Third, "....VEC and junk...." has EVERYTHING to do
with exams. AND renewals. You have the option to
renew a current license through a VEC, ONLINE or
in person at a VE session. The citation I gave from
97.521(d) is just as relevant to an on-site renewal
as it is to an on-site examination. The gentleman
from NCVEC who I spoke to stated it flatly, plainly
and bluntly - that VE group should NOT have refused
to submit paperwork simply because CQD was NOT an
ARRL member. The VE/VEC service is NOT exclusive
to ARRL members for an ARRL VE group; and the same
is true for any other VE group regardless of which
VEC they are connected with.
(I cannot say with certainty that the Pacificon
event was advertised as an "open" session - it is
possible that whatever VE group could possibly have
run a "closed" session...but that would be
extraordinarily odd for a hamfest such as what I
am told Pacificon is compared to Dayton for those
of us here "back east". I am looking into this.)
HOWEVER, since you insist on hair-splitting I will
go BACK to the gentleman from NCVEC and ask him
SPECIFICALLY about renewals vs. examinations. I am
pretty sure I know what his answer will be but just
the same I will do it to be fair.
As far as questioning CQD's character - I'm not
interested in that. If he shoots his mouth off in
a forum, he will be taken to task and that's life
in a public forum. I think he understands that.
But I will agree with him on one point in this
regard - whatever he SAYS some of you guys want to
castigate him for and tell him he should give up
his ham license FOR HIS OPINIONS; or because you
don't personally like that he shoots his mouth off.
That is the most pompous, arrogant bullsh** and smacks
of the kind of elitism that both keeps people out
of this hobby and makes a lot of already licensed
amateurs want to quit. With such attitudes, it should
hardly be a surprise to anyone that Amateur Radio
has problems - god forbid that anyone should bespeak
blasphemy against the Holy Church of Amateur Radio.
In another month I will have been in this hobby for
31 years. I have seen this divisive behavior slowly
increasing over the years as many of my fellow
Amateurs seem to have forgotten that we are supposed
to be GENTLEMEN and LADIES in this hobby. There is
room for a wide variety of opinions when that is the
case, because GENTLEMEN and LADIES can agree to
disagree when polite persuasion fails. Even when
polite *argument* fails.
But this venemous name-calling......absolutely
disgusting. Doesn't matter to me if it is directed
AT CQD of FROM CQD or anyone else.
Duane
WB9OMC
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on April 4, 2005
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Duane;
You wrote; >>” …..and smacks of the kind of elitism that both keeps people out of this hobby and makes a lot of already licensed amateurs want to quit.….”<<
Be Careful! ……The last time I used “The E Word” in a post, some of my critics jumped on it as proof positive that I was really a secret follower of the cult of NCI!
BTW: ………Great Post!
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W9WHE-II on April 4, 2005
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WB9OMC writes:
"But this venemous name-calling......absolutely
disgusting"
Duane, I could not agree more.
It seems, more and more, that when certain groups of people can't win on an intellectual level, they resort to personal attacks. It is becomming the weapon of choice for certain people that lack the intellectual capacity to discuss the merits of a given issue.
Funny how people that "claim" to advocate tollerance, are, so completely INtollerant of people with a different opinion. These same people advocate "political correctness" yet feel free to engage in venemous name calling. Their conduct speaks VOLUMES.
W9WHE
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 4, 2005
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****WB4TGT said "OH WELL I MADE A STATMENT TO CQD IN WHICH I AGREED WITH HIM AND ALSO 123 NOW IM GETTING MAIL FROM BOTH TELLING ME IM NO GOOD. "
I havn't sent you anything....if you are getting any email, it isn't from me... ****
You're not getting any mail from me either, my friend. Anything I have to say, I'll say it here...as I've shown quite well! If you're getting any mail from me, then someone's playing a game. All of my correspondences will come from kc5cqd@hotmail.com
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 4, 2005
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****Kent, while I agree our Government is BIG a bureacratic mess, this is still the very BEST country in the world. One of the reasons I do NOT support "civil disobediance" in CQD's example has ALOT to do with my own personal beliefs (check out I Peter 2:13)...while I may disagree with the Government when it comes to radio matters, I will NEVER willingly break the law because I disagree...that's where CQD has it wrong...REAL hams would NEVER support breaking the FCC rules under any circumstances...****
Well, to begin with, if I just wanted to be a freebander, I never would have got my license. Second, I stated that I do operate within the limits of the law. Third, if you're going to use religion as the rule of morality for breaking or not breaking the law, then you're barking up the wrong tree. I was born and raised a devout atheist and the "Big Book of Jewish Mythology" means nothing.....less than nothing....to me. In fact, that response just told me all I need to know about you and your perspective on things. We have nothing to discuss, you and I. Just go ahead a label me an anti-christ and condemn me to hell and be done with it. I know that's coming next.
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by WB9OMC on April 4, 2005
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Well, I stand by what I said about Amateur Gentlemen
and Ladies, and I will stand by that by doing what
Gentlemen and Ladies do when they are wrong - admit
it.
Upon some very direct research, I have found that
ARRL is INDEED allowed to decline a RENEWAL from
a non-member at a VE session. The rule I cited,
97.521(d) apparently applies ONLY to examinations
and NOT to renewals. I have not yet been given a
good reason or even just A REASON, good or otherwise,
for this. However that is the way it is (for NOW).
The ARRL VE manual states it quite plainly on page
38 in Chapter 5. The same manual also states quite
clearly that they WILL accept a renewal from a non-
member *if it is accompanied by funds for membership
in the ARRL*.
I can only interpret this as a loophole in Part 97,
because the NCVEC "Quick-Form 605" does in fact
have a check box on it for "Renewal".
So, I screwed up. Sorry about that, guys and gals.
Duane
WB9OMC
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on April 4, 2005
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KC5CQD said "Well, to begin with, if I just wanted to be a freebander, I never would have got my license."
Please explain this then :
http://wz5q.com/AdvancedGuestBook/comment.php?gb_id=24
......the part about the freebanding....
KC5CQD said "Third, if you're going to use religion as the rule of morality for breaking or not breaking the law, then you're barking up the wrong tree. I was born and raised a devout atheist and the "Big Book of Jewish Mythology" means nothing....."
That's fine with me....I was explaining to Kent how I get my beliefs...this is a free country, I would NEVER try to impose my beliefs on you.... I said it is MY PERSONAL belief...that does NOT make any requirement that you accept it....
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 4, 2005
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****So, I screwed up. Sorry about that, guys and gals.
Duane
WB9OMC ****
Nah, you didn't screw up. Thanks for your valiant efforts, Duane.
My gripe from the get-go wasn't really whether they could "legally" do it or not. It was more a matter of "why not do it for a fellow ham?"
As I stated earlier, I know that in this world, money is always the bottom line and I naively held the ARRL above that rule. That was my mistake, not theirs.
Damned big of you to admit when you're wrong and even bigger to take a stance in the face of such adversity.
73's to you and yours
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 4, 2005
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****KC5CQD said "Well, to begin with, if I just wanted to be a freebander, I never would have got my license."
Please explain this then :
http://wz5q.com/AdvancedGuestBook/comment.php?gb_id=24
......the part about the freebanding.... ****
Yeah! I started out an illegally operating CBer! Like a lot of us. I got tired of freebanding and illegal operating and buckled-down and got my license.
And......your point? Like I said, "If I wanted to just be a freebander, I never would have got my license."
Which part of that statement is confusing you?
If we're going to start dredging up past transgressions then most of us are going to have a lot to answer for. hihi!
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on April 4, 2005
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KC5CQD said "Yeah! I started out an illegally operating CBer! Like a lot of us. I got tired of freebanding and illegal operating and buckled-down and got my license. And......your point?"
Actually, you just PROVED AE1X's point when he said "This statement and the entire post indicates to me that you are already a freebander and proud of it" also, AE1X correctly said "Frankly 5CQD, amateur radio does need you kind. Kindly remove yourself to the pirate bands and leave amateur radio those that will continue to thrive in whatever environment FCC provides for it. " ....I totally agree with him...
CQD, you are NOT a REAL ham...you have just admitted it...that's my point...
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 4, 2005
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****Please explain this then :
http://wz5q.com/AdvancedGuestBook/comment.php?gb_id=24
......the part about the freebanding.... ****
And partner......
If that's the best you can dredge up on the web to try and incriminate me, you had best go back to P.I. school. That was feeble, at best!
Finding a posting where I admitted that 20 years ago I was a freebander? hihi!
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on April 4, 2005
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KC5CQD said "If that's the best you can dredge up on the web to try and incriminate me, you had best go back to P.I. school. That was feeble, at best! "
It may have been feeble...but it worked....you CLEARLY admitted here on eham that you are NOT a REAL ham...
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on April 4, 2005
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A number of contributors have commented on the name-calling and general hostility that seems to surround these threads that deal with Political Topics: ……….I’ve noted this also, (a carefully understated way of putting it) but I make a serious effort to ignore the “rough spots” in the conversation.
It is, after all, a Political Discussion: ……You can’t expect it to be an episode of “Mister Roger’s Neighborhood”!
I do, however, feel the need to comment on the subject of religious references: …..They have a limited place in this sort of discussion.
Now, ….I’ll be the first to admit that Biblical quotes can be appropriate to the spirit of a discussion, and that many of them are brilliantly crafted prose: ……..but the issue here is Politics, and we need to avoid distracting “side arguments”.
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on April 4, 2005
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KC5CQD, let me put it another way...you clearly admitted that you operated ILLEGALLY in the PAST...you said earler that you would FREEBAND again if the FCC changed the rules in the FUTURE....based on those two statements, it is VERY difficult for a reasonable person to believe that you are not freebanding NOW....that's why I say you are NOT a REAL ham....
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 4, 2005
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****KC5CQD said "If that's the best you can dredge up on the web to try and incriminate me, you had best go back to P.I. school. That was feeble, at best! "
It may have been feeble...but it worked....you CLEARLY admitted here on eham that you are NOT a REAL ham...****
Well, be that as it may....
This "freebander" has a very real FCC issued callsign and isn't afraid to post it.
So who's the real ham? The one with a callsign or did the FCC issue you "RADIO123US"?
Stop hiding behind your anonymity if you're such a "real ham".
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 4, 2005
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****KC5CQD, let me put it another way...you clearly admitted that you operated ILLEGALLY in the PAST...you said earler that you would FREEBAND again if the FCC changed the rules in the FUTURE....based on those two statements, it is VERY difficult for a reasonable person to believe that you are not freebanding NOW....that's why I say you are NOT a REAL ham....****
When you get a callsign, I'll take you a little more seriously. Until then, you're the imposter here.
Breaker, breaker RADIO123US....you roger that, good buddy?
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on April 4, 2005
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KC5CQD said "When you get a callsign, I'll take you a little more seriously. Until then, you're the imposter here. "
Whether or not YOU take me seriously doesn't matter here anymore, does it ??? You just blew your credibility to sheds....thanks for helping me make my point....
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 4, 2005
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****CQD, you are NOT a REAL ham...you have just admitted it...that's my point...****
Again....KC5CQD is a legal and current FCC issued callsign. RADIO123US isn't. You're a joke and an imposter and lack the gonads to reveal yourself as the imposter that you are.
Stop. You're making yourself look like a total ass. Have some self-respect and arm yourself with a callsign. Or shut up, CBer wannabe.
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 4, 2005
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****KC5CQD said "When you get a callsign, I'll take you a little more seriously. Until then, you're the imposter here. "
Whether or not YOU take me seriously doesn't matter here anymore, does it ??? You just blew your credibility to sheds....thanks for helping me make my point....****
Really?! I'm the ham here on eham.net. I think a fellow ham carries more credibility than an obvious loser cber that can't get a ham license.
Again....stop! You're making a total ass of yourself! hihi! Get a callsign and prove to me and everyone else that you're even qualified to be arguing with me.
You're like a celibate priest giving marital advice. You don't have the experience to even be speaking.
Show me a call or piss off, loser. Put up or shut up.
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on April 4, 2005
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KC5CQD, lets not forget, I'm NOT the one who admitted being a freebander...nuff said...
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on April 4, 2005
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OK; …………..This is getting silly!
………..And anyone who can’t see that needs to walk out to the refrigerator in the garage, grab a beer, and step outside to contemplate the sunset for a while, before they return to the keyboard!
************************************(a pause of indeterminate length)
Have you all done that??? ………….GREAT! ………now I have a question:
JUST WHAT THE HELL IS A “REAL HAM”?
Ever since I got my license, I’ve been told that I’m “not a Real Ham”.
Over the past few years, I’ve seen dozens of others treated to the same routine here on Eham, and now I see that the issue has surfaced again in this thread!
In the past, I have asked this same question, and gotten nothing but smoke and mirrors! It was like discussing the definition of the word “THE” with Bill Clinton! ….Enough of that!
It’s time for a solid, concise, definition! ……No more waffling and evasion!
Those of us who “don’t make the Cut” need to understand why we are delegated to the lowest Caste of this Aristocratic Society.
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on April 4, 2005
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KB9YZL said "JUST WHAT THE HELL IS A “REAL HAM”? "
Kent, I'll take a stab at it....it's an amateur radio operator who RESPECTS and FOLLOWS the rules and regulations that the FCC has in place...PAST, PRESENT, and FUTURE...please make note, I didn't say anything about knowing the code....
Kent, I believe I've spoken with you long enough here to know your heart when it comes to ham radio...you are a REAL ham in my book....
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by K4JF on April 4, 2005
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<The crowd in Washington can whimsically pass any law they think they need to deal with day-to-day issues. A few of those passed are good; …..many are redundant, ….and many are just downright bad! >
Well, actually, no they can't. Not legally, that is. The Constitution of the United States very clearly states that Congress (Washington) can pass laws ONLY on certain subjects authorized them by that document. If it doesn't say they can, then they can't.
But they do and I agree that MOST of them are bad.
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on April 4, 2005
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K4JF;
You are, of course, technically correct: The Constitutional Limitations on the three branches of our government are right there, in Black & White, for everyone to see!
The problem is that the typical “Elected Representative” has, at best, a rather casual relationship with the Constitution: ……….One need only look at that past 5 decades, (filled as they are with questionable Foreign Policy Actions and Presidential “Mini-Wars”) for proof of that!
Please don’t misunderstand me: ………I’m not a “Peace in Our Time” type in any way, shape, or form! I firmly believe in the “Application of Force” when it is appropriate: ………I’m just tired of watching Political Transients and Amateurs (with their own personal agendas) doing the job as they think it should be done!
Remember; …….that same remarkable ability and insight we see in their handling of foreign affairs is also used in their domestic policies!
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 4, 2005
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****JUST WHAT THE HELL IS A “REAL HAM”?****
To begin with, I never questioned anyone's status as a "real ham". I was told by someone without a callsign that "I" wasn't a "real ham". Like it or not, I will defend myself when attacked by someone that's obviously not qualified to be attacking me.
I consider anyone with a current FCC issued callsign a real ham. I don't care if you got it prior to or after the "restructuring" that everyone here is always going on about. End of story.
What we have here is a little putz that obviously lacks the drive and/or grey matter to go out and get a license and so hangs out with the "big boys"(that he secretly admires for their abilities) and stirs up crap. I've watched this moron work for months.
Here's what I've learned from this experience; The guys that complain about posters not having callsigns? In the past, I didn't really see the big deal. Now? I see their point. Nothing more disgusting than knowing your exchanging words with someone that runs a Cobra 148GTL and a Starduster and yet chooses to hang out on ham forums instead of CB/Freebander forums.
I'll never again validate one of their posts with a response. That's what they're looking for. It makes them feel better about themselves when they can get a licensed ham to bicker with them. That was my mistake. Won't happen again.
Again, a real ham has a real callsign. Nothing more, nothing less.
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 4, 2005
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****KC5CQD, lets not forget, I'm NOT the one who admitted being a freebander...nuff said... ****
Nah....with you and your ilk....there's never enough said. Maybe you do have a call but just lack the gonads to tell people who you really are. Scared that someone might show up and hang a foot in your ass after seeing enough of your silly rants on the web.
I'm Jess E. Materne and I live at 754 Rosemont Ave. Pacific Grove, CA. And I don't give a damn who knows it. That's called having a sack. Something you'll never know about, putz.
Do me a favor......show up, putz. Please come find me!
KC5CQD
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by RADIO123US on April 4, 2005
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KC5CQD, I'll honestly have to give you credit for one thing.... admitting WHO you are, WHAT you do (Freeband), and WHERE you live...that will make it MUCH easier when Riley (the FCC) comes looking for you...FYI, I actually used to post under my callsign until I started receiving threats (and spam) from the "CB types".....it's not worth risking my family's safety for a discussion board...
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KB9YZL on April 5, 2005
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RADIO123US;
I have to give you credit; ….you’re a true optimist!
After having observed Riley and the FCC for a while now, my faith in their enforcement abilities is limited.
When one considers some of the egregious violations that are currently occurring, you get the impression that a guy could set up a “Pirate” radio station in Riley’s outer office; …….and that his biggest worry would be getting enough amperage out of the existing wall sockets!
Kent Carroll
KB9YZL
“Appliance Operator”
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by W9WHE-II on April 5, 2005
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K4JF writes:
"The Constitution of the United States very clearly states that Congress (Washington) can pass laws ONLY on certain subjects authorized them by that document. If it doesn't say they can, then they can't"
That was the intent of the 10th amendment. However, over the last 30 years, a liberal democratic congress (backed by liberal supreme court) has reduced the 10th amendment to mere words.
A liberal supreme court (U.S. v Morris for example)has determined that Congress may regulate anything that impacts "interstate commerce". Guess what, EVERYTHING impacts interstate commerce, so under the court's ruling, Congress can regulate everything!
And that's why choosing the right Judges is SOOOOO important! If we get Liberal judges, the government will be regulating the color of your underwear!
W9WHE
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC0BUS on April 5, 2005
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If the ARRL is barely effective with the "old school FCC" (the tech guys and hams... to quote you), just how effective do you think the ARRL will be with the "new age FCC" (career politicians and lawyers... again, your words)?! :-(
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RE: What's Next With the FCC?
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by KC5CQD on April 17, 2005
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****KC5CQD, I'll honestly have to give you credit for one thing.... admitting WHO you are, WHAT you do (Freeband), and WHERE you live...that will make it MUCH easier when Riley (the FCC) comes looking for you...FYI, I actually used to post under my callsign until I started receiving threats (and spam) from the "CB types".....it's not worth risking my family's safety for a discussion board... ****
RADIO123US...I honestly hope that you see this post. Of all the negative crap we've had to say to one another, this is the most positive response I've seen!
I fully understand your reasons for not posting your call. I'm armed and most people that know me say that I'm "half crazy" and so I don't really give a frig who knows who I am and where I live. I honestly hope some moron comes stalking me. It would give me a chance to test out my new .40 caliber semi-auto. hihi!!!!
I only wish you had been more forthright in your initial posts! It would have alleviated a lot of the crap that has been going on between you and myself.
Look guy.....I'm not a freebander. I operate in the General Class allocated areas. All I stated in the past was that a:) I started out in radio as a CBer and that b:) If the FCC took 20 meters away from me then I would still operate in the 20 meter band. Inasmuch as if the federal governement took away my right to keep and bear arms, I would still own guns. I love my country and respect the laws up until a point. The point where I see that my government is taking my rights away.
But....
Since the FCC has not taken my rights away on 20 meters.......everything is just hunkydory!
Good fortunes to you and yours, my friend.
KC5CQD
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