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Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
Do not contact (N4ZOU)
on
May 20, 2005
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Non-petroleum electric power generation.
I, like many of us, have standby electric power generators. Due to the costs of gasoline, I started on a quest to find an alternate fuel source for my 5,000-watt generator. I found what I think is the answer – a simple wood gasifier similar to the ones produced in WWII and strapped on automobiles and stationary power plants that were normally fueled with refined petroleum fuels. Due to the extreme shortages of gasoline in Europe and Australia, this was the only way to power the automobiles and power plants without gasoline for the average person. With the increase in price of gasoline in the last few years and fear of the return of 1970's era fuel shortages due to war in the middle east in 1993, this technology has seen an increase in performance of the equipment, simpler design, and ease of use. I will not go into a detailed project on how to do it as FEMA has done this for us! Materials used are simple and readily available and anyone with the slightest mechanical ability can build their own system of the appropriate size for there requirements.
This site has all the design information you need to build your own biomass gasifier unit, filter, and carburetor.
You can take this system a step further by operating your older truck on wood biomass as well!
I am currently planning to convert my 1974 Ford truck to the system used on the Mother Earth site at the following link.
A very good site with lots of information and the latest designs are to be found at this link.
This is a modern commercially produced wood gasifier system providing power for a sawmill operating miles from the power grid and is fueled with waste wood and sawdust.
This is a commercially built unit for feeding wood gas into a small electric generator. It uses small pellets with an automatic feed system.
As for the question I already know is coming, "Can I make extra Field Day points with this?" The ARRL site covers this with rule 7.3.8 "Alternate Power."
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by KE4MOB on May 20, 2005
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Interesting.
I just wonder what kind of efficiency one gets with this system, as compared to say burning the wood and creating steam in a boiler. Seems like most of the energy in the fuel in this system goes right up the chimney....
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the numbers don't make sense (yet, anyway)
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by KZ1X on May 20, 2005
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I pay more for bottled water than I pay for gasoline.
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by N4ZOU on May 20, 2005
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That�s what is so neat about this system as there is no chimney! All gases produced in the gasifier are routed to the cooler and filter and then into the intake of the ICE (internal combustion engine).
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by KE4MOB on May 20, 2005
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"All gases produced in the gasifier are routed to the cooler"
Cooler, chimney, same difference...It's energy escaping from the system and being wasted. Wrap a water jacket around the cooler and use it to make steam to turn another generator...now you're talking some decent efficiency.
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Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by K6TFZ on May 20, 2005
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Great idea! What do you suggest for fuel-injected vehicles?
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by N8NNE on May 20, 2005
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This is something I remember being alluded to in past conversations but I really wasn't familliar with the specifics.
Thanks for the links. I have a friend who is making a jet engine and his fuel combustion chamber design has a great deal of similarity to the gassifier. He has no idea of this, so the next time we get together to discuss modifications of his first prototype design, I'm gonna blow his mind by suggesting we change the fuel to wood chips ;-)
A jet engine may require fuel supply at too high of a rate to be provided by a wood gassifier, but it is in other ways very well suited to the gassifier system.
Very cool! Thanks for sharing.
N8NNE/6
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RE: the numbers don't make sense (yet, anyway)
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by K4JF on May 20, 2005
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<I pay more for bottled water than I pay for gasoline.>
Irrelevant. You can't run your generator on bottled water. And you're paying WAY too much for water. Stick with tap water.
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Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by WA6BFH on May 20, 2005
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Interesting! I haven’t even heard the reference Mother Earth News in years. I lost track of Stuart Brand, and Jim Sencenbaugh some time ago! I guess the gas prices go up, and our foregone hippi ideals come out!
I’m more inclined toward Bio-diesel but, I will have to read up on this. For non-mobile applications photo-voltaic, and maybe even wind electric (in the right locations) seems desirable.
Do I get the Field Day credit for bio-diesel?
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Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by N1GXC on May 20, 2005
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It's a nice system for those who take pleasure in being self sufficient but it's not for me. Life is much too short. Flip a switch, turn a key, telegraph the engine room "full speed ahead".
Dan.
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Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by N0AH on May 20, 2005
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I just feed my dog a couple of beans, hook up the wires, and we're set for a week-
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by NN6EE on May 20, 2005
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As per:
RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation Reply
by K5DVW on May 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
How many miles per log can you get?
***********************************************
That's being downright SILLY!!!
GAWD!!! I think this "HOBBY" is great!!!
Loved it!!!
Jim/ee
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Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by KE4ZHN on May 20, 2005
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Nice article. The links are interesting reading, and a testament to the resourcefulness of people during hard times.
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by W6TH on May 20, 2005
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.
In China back in WW2 the Chinese had distillers on the back of their trucks and distilled their own alcohol to run their gasoline engines and trucks. Seems they used most anything lying on the ground.
.:
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by N7BUI on May 20, 2005
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"3.4 ROUTINE START-UP PROCEDURE
Close the carburetor's air control valve and remove the cover from the blower exhaust on top of the filter unit. Start the blower, and let it run for thirty seconds to avoid explosion of residual gas in the system. Then, with the blower still operating, proceed with the next step.
After a few minutes of smoky exhaust, test the gas at the, blower exhaust by safely and carefully attempting to ignite it, see Fig. 3-3. When the gas burns consistently well, stop the blower and replace the cover on the blower exhaust."
Are you really willing to go through all of this for a trip down to the store? I think this is very neat idea for a stationary engine that will be running long term, but for short runs I think you would be better using a diesel engine running off of vegetable oil of some sort. Quicker more reliable starting and far safer. This ranks right up there with the dangers of producing your own hydrogen. Make sure your life/fire insurance is paid up before you light this thing off anywhere near your home.
But a very neat article anyway. Check out www.homepower.com for more ideas.
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by N7BUI on May 20, 2005
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Or www.otherpower.com which is an excellent site for do it yourself alternative energy.
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by WA6BFH on May 20, 2005
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Reading some of the links and specific information made me think of my circuitous path of building wind generators, small 12 volt hydro-electric systems, and automated green-houses.
I recall running into a man on the radio one day that told me that during WW2 he ran a jeep from regular CH4 gas that he put in a pressurized tank in the back of the jeep. He brought the normal home pressure up to about 60 PSI with an old refrigerator compressor or in his basement. He said he would hook it up and let it run, until it had topped out on filling the tank.
He said that he was able to get extra money for he and his wife by selling their “gas ration coupons”!
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by X-WB1AUW on May 20, 2005
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To reduce gas, try Beano.
Switch to a bug, it gets more dits and dahs per hour than a straight key, and doesn't consume electricity like a keyer does.
Bob
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Any drawbacks?
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by WB4M on May 20, 2005
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Sounds very interesting.. but I think this method would be best suited for long-term commercial power outtages. Also, are there any hidden dangers?
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Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by KE4DRN on May 20, 2005
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It is interesting article.
How about alcohol ?
Here in NC and in the us, many farms are without crops.
We could grow purple sweet potato, it has high sugar content. Two crops, early and late using drip irigation and machine harvest them.
The potato is underground and would have better yield compared to corn that is above ground and can get damaged by severe weather.
Ford and Chrysler have put sensors inline to detect the ratio of gas and or alcohol so the engine can run properly.
We just have to fill the tank twice as much because gasoline has higher energy content compared to alcohol.
It will take a big effort to do this, consider how fast the automakers phased out the R-12 Freon types of refrigerants and now have the R-134 types.
73 james
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RE: Any drawbacks?
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by KA0PMD on May 20, 2005
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Drawbacks? I can think of one: Carbon monoxide
poisoning. At least a handful of families were
suffocated by using gasifiers during WWII.
However, design improvements may make this phenomenon
a thing of the past.
73,
Steve Lawrence
KAØPMD
Burnsville, Minne-so-cold
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RE: Any drawbacks?
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by K0BG on May 21, 2005
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There are several drawbacks that aren't covered in the online data.
First, in some states the operation of a gasification device requires a yearly license. Read that as a tax.
Then there is the initial cost of the unit which must be amortized. Even if you build it yourself, this is a difficult task. One small unit sold by a company listed in the online articles sells for nearly $8,000. That's a lot of gasoline.
The collection of the biomass can and is a problem depending on which biomass you are using. Obviously, you have waste as well. Here in New Mexico, that waste must be land filled.
There are no doubt other drawbacks too.
Unless you HAVE TO use a biomass device, it is not a very good alternative to gasoline.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by W1RKW on May 21, 2005
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Why not convert the generator over to propane or natural gas.
http://www.propane-generators.com/
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by KG6AMW on May 21, 2005
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Well, this device might be great when gas is positively in short supply, but it isn’t. As for the cost, gasoline today is no more expensive today than it has been for most of the post world war period, and it is considerably cheaper than it was in the late 1970s and early 1980s. In actual financial terms, it's a lot less onerous than the $1.25 a gallon motorists were paying in 1980 -- a whopping $2.80 when translated into 2004 dollars.
KG6AMW
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by KE4MOB on May 21, 2005
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Take a look at that first link. 20 pounds of wood is equal to 1 gallon of gasoline. 1 cubic yard of wood is about 600 pounds. In other words, you have to have 1 cubic yard of wood, cut up into cubes or sawdust, to have about 30 gallons of gas--about a tankful.
Unless you've got a good supply of sawdust or scraps, I'd wager that it would take more effort to prepare the fuel than it's worth. Unless, of course, you were at a sawmill. I did some research into bio-diesel...seems like a much more practical system.
I suppose the easiest way to prepare the wood would be to use a chainsaw. But what happens when the chainsaw runs out of gas?
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by KL7IPV on May 21, 2005
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Maybe you should be using an electric chainsaw?
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Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by WA2JJH on May 21, 2005
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WOW! Great to see that others are thinking about oil
alternatives.
The 2nd law of thermodyamics of course cannot be broken.
However for microbial cold fermentation requires almost no external energy to convert waste plastic into
a fuel.
I was at one of the conventions I attend on POLYMER
science. I found that many of the old reaserchers used to be ham radio operators!
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Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by N2BR on May 21, 2005
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I just make a batch of white lighting and what i dont drink i pour in the gas tank,Clean out both system...
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by KF4VGX on May 21, 2005
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Quote, N2BR on May 21, 2005
I just make a batch of white lighting and what i dont drink i pour in the gas tank,Clean out both system...
'''''''''''''''''''''
All jokes aside ,that is an option that works. ;->
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by WA2JJH on May 21, 2005
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YUP, simply mix 190 proof moonshine,add a little mineral oil...That IS pretty much what 2 cycle
engines burn. HOWEVER THEY MOSTLY USE METHLENOL(NERVE DAMAGE AND DEATHS OCCURED FROM DRINKING DE-NATURED 190 PROOF.
of course, homemade stills produce ETHANOL. YES SIR!
ethanol is the stuff that gets diluted, bottled and taxed!
If you promise UNCLE SAM that you will use it as a fuel. One that burns much cleaner than gasoline.
If you add 10% corn oil, it will power your RC plane
very well.
Correct me if I am wrong, most 2 cycle engines will work fine with 190 proof ethanol, AND ANY NON PETROLEUM OIL.
BUNCH of POTHEADS,BUILT A CAR THAT RAN OFF OF POT!
IT DID GET 25MI/GALLON!
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by KF4VGX on May 22, 2005
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Quote ,WA2JJH on May 21, 2005
YUP, simply mix 190 proof moonshine,add a little mineral oil...That IS pretty much what 2 cycle
engines burn. HOWEVER THEY MOSTLY USE METHLENOL(NERVE DAMAGE AND DEATHS OCCURED FROM DRINKING DE-NATURED 190 PROOF.
of course, homemade stills produce ETHANOL. YES SIR!
ethanol is the stuff that gets diluted, bottled and taxed!
If you promise UNCLE SAM that you will use it as a fuel. One that burns much cleaner than gasoline.
If you add 10% corn oil, it will power your RC plane
very well.
Correct me if I am wrong, most 2 cycle engines will work fine with 190 proof ethanol, AND ANY NON PETROLEUM OIL.
BUNCH of POTHEADS,BUILT A CAR THAT RAN OFF OF POT!
IT DID GET 25MI/GALLON!
..................................
Your Right.
The reason the POTHEADS, CAR THAT RAN OFF OF POT!
Got 25MI/GALLON!
Was because they only drove it 25MI/Per Hour. ;->
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by K4JF on May 22, 2005
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<it's a lot less onerous than the $1.25 a gallon motorists were paying in 1980 -->
Yes, BUT!! 1980 was a fluke peak in price caused by an artifical "shortage". Gas was much lower before and has been since. You can't justify today's high price by comparing to a short artifical peak in price 2 decades ago.
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by K8MHZ on May 22, 2005
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<BUNCH of POTHEADS,BUILT A CAR THAT RAN OFF OF POT!
IT DID GET 25MI/GALLON!>
You think gas is expensive? What's a gallon of pot go for now days?
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by WA2JJH on May 22, 2005
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tHEY USED THE PARTS OF THE STATIVA PLANT THAT HAS LITTLE
OR NO PSYCO- ACTIVE INGREDIANTS
The hEMP type of stativa has no psyco-active properties.
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by WA2JJH on May 22, 2005
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NNE-JET A fuel is 90% KEROSINE, NOT GASOLINE.
PROP PLANES DO USE AVIATION GRADE GASOLINE
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by KC8VWM on May 23, 2005
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"it is considerably cheaper than it was in the late 1970s and early 1980s. In actual financial terms, it's a lot less onerous than the $1.25 a gallon motorists were paying in 1980 -- "
Seems I remember paying $1.25 a gallon in 2001. I thought the price was high when it edged up a dime higher to a whopping 1.35 a gallon!! Does any one remember these gas hikes in 2000 - 2001?
Now look at us!! $2.75 a gallon in the state of CT. This isn't just another 5% or 10% increase justified to offset refining costs either.
Rising fuel prices is now hurting consumer spending, the transportation sector and is slowing down the economy.
Bad economic policy if you ask me.
Thanks for listening.
73 Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by KC8VWM on May 23, 2005
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"I suppose the easiest way to prepare the wood would be to use a chainsaw. But what happens when the chainsaw runs out of gas?"
Better yet what happens when we have enough gas and we run out of trees?
:)
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by WA6CDE on May 23, 2005
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... and now you know why their are no trees left in arizona... during WW2... I think solar might be a better answer to a less efficent wood conversion... besides... think of the trees you'll save...
but, it is quite interesting what people are up to these days... with their free time... grin...
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by K4JF on May 23, 2005
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<Better yet what happens when we have enough gas and we run out of trees? >
I would suggest that we would probably use pulpwood trees (the kind that we use to make paper, cardboard, rayon and some other products). That is a crop - planted and harvested on a cycle just like corn and beans. Actually, the more paper we use the more trees we have - and this could have the same effect!
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by KD7ZOX on May 31, 2005
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You can make an internal combustion engine run on a combination of water and gasoline, you can use some electricity from the alternator or battery or whatever you plan on starting the process with, and make an electrolyzer, and have the gas output go into your air-line or have it pumped into the feul air mix. Increases efficiency by quite a bit.
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by VK2QQ on June 1, 2005
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My car runs on propane at about a third of the cost of petrol.
Don't forget, if you run your vehicle on any alternate fuel, biodiesel, vegetable oil, gasifier etc, you can be charged with tax evasion unless you continue to pay the government the fuel excises and taxes on your home brewed fuel.
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RE: Non-Petroleum Electric Power Generation
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by AD5TD on September 2, 2005
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Lots of Farmers/Ranchers don't pay "road taxes".
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