VHF Distant Communication or DX?
from
John Wendt, WA6BFH
on
May 30, 2005
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VHF Distant Communication or DX
By John Wendt, WA6BFH
The title of this article is almost an oxymoron to much of the Ham radio community. I used to get a bunch of e-mails asking me about 6 Meter DX. Often the e-mailer would tell me he had just gotten a new radio, and would ask what would be the best antenna for it. I would suggest a few different beams, and the desirable goal to achieve at least 10 decibels (dB) of antenna gain. I would ask which radio that this Ham had just acquired, and be answered that it was a new cute little "handheld"! Often too the respondent would indicate that they did not want to go to the trouble and bother of "putting up a beam and rotor and all that -- couldn't he just get a vertical omni with 10 dB's of gain?" Sure, it will be about 1 dB shy of 10 dBd, and be 72 feet tall! Why not?
I have written articles in the past about Ham FM activity. I actually enjoy FM on 10 and 6 Meters, and I own three different repeaters within our VHF and UHF spectrum. This article though will be about DX. This means no wideband 16 kHz bandwidth Frequency Modulation! It's about 3 kHz bandwidth Single Sideband, and even narrower iCW! The object is to attain a good "Signal to Noise" (atmospheric noise) ratio.
VHF DXing can be very challenging, and immensely rewarding! It never fails to thrill and delight me when I work someone several states away, or a different country via a frequency that used to be channel 1 television! On the higher frequencies to work someone in another state via a 144 or 222 MHz, signal is tantamount to an experiment in physics! The wonder of working someone in Arizona or at the far end of California, yet 400 miles away can be done every day though, and I savor the science involved!
Therefore, what does it take to accomplish this? The major hardware is a good antenna, and that's not very hard to provide. Even a four element 2 Meter wavelength band Cubical Quad on a 66 inch long boom and fabricated of wood and wire will provide 10.1 dBd of gain. A 50-foot boom Yagi on 6 Meters is an antenna better than 2.5 wavelengths long. If you tried to build such a Yagi for 20 Meters, the boom would be just short of 176 feet! The elements on a 6 Meter Yagi are only about 9 feet long; the antenna is very small from a perspective of mass or wind load. On 6 Meters, it is quite common for serious VHF Ham's to stack and phase 2 or even 4 such Yagis. One though is quite good. Even two 4 element Yagis on 12 foot boom's can be a very effective tool, or one 6 element Yagi on a 24 foot long boom!
On the higher bands of 2 Meters and 1.35 Meters, antennas are very easy. A Yagi with elements only about 2 feet long, and a boom just slightly over 32 feet in length can provide 16.2 dBd gain! The same antenna if scaled to 20 Meters would require a boom length of about 492 feet! It is very feasible to assemble a phased array of several of these VHF antennas. Have you ever seen someone phase four 20 Meter Yagis with 400 foot long booms? Antenna height is also a very important consideration. Thirty feet above ground and other obstructions is the break-point for this installation engineering. Below thirty feet, VHF antennas will appear to lose gain. Above this point, signal gain is effectively improved. Be careful though because as this height increases, losses in feedline can offset gain!
Thus, feedline loss considerations are important for such antenna arrays, and it is good to deliberate and be conscious of this. Coaxial cable is often referenced with statements by some Hams who say 'you MUST HAVE high quality Heliax or hard-line coaxial cable to work VHF. If you look at these installations closely, you will find that they all have about 1 decibel of feedline loss, a few tenths of a dB more, a few tenths less.
You will also often hear of Hams using coax from "The Feedline Man" or some such manufacturer. Now maybe these vendors have good coax, and maybe they don't? I am always a bit skeptical when I hear about cable that is designed for superlative low loss, and it's super flexible too! That kind of reminds me of guys that get a Volkswagen, and then try to turn it into a racecar! I use Belden cable. This is a company that you may have heard of, since they have been around for many, many decades. I use their Military specification (Mil Spec C17D) cables such as part number 8267. Many people call this RG8! It is in fact RG-213, a variant of the older World War 2 Mil-spec (JAN C17) RG-8A/U that I used as a kid. I usually wind up using about 50 feet or so, and consequently have about 8/10ths of a dB of loss over that length. Belden specs say 1.6 dB of loss at 100 feet on 50 MHz. I don't object to the idea of better coax, I just weigh all of the factors. I do typically use "Constant Impedance" coaxial connectors such as Amphenol type "N"! I also replace coaxial cable every 3 to 5 years.
Another facet of VHF DX is the physical nature of the ways in which these frequencies behave. Max Planck taught us that each time we double frequency we double energy level. A simple demonstration of this is to take a small power output transmitter, just a few Watts, on HF frequencies and touch the tip of its antenna with your finger. You will either feel nothing, or a small tingling. Do this with the same power level on UHF frequencies and you will get a painful RF burn! These energy levels though are our friend! They help us to explore and utilize the characteristics of the upper atmosphere, such as using Tropospheric Ducting, or bouncing signals off the roiled and disturbed air that is excited in the wake of jet aircraft, or even bouncing signals off the Moon! That's what I mean about experiments in Physics! It's just fun to play with this stuff!
The atmospheric noise level is considerably lower over most of the VHF spectrum. This factor along with the energy levels that can be produced by even modest power stations allow signals to be bounced of the trailing hot gasses of jet aircraft as mentioned in the earlier example. One prominent California 222 MHz Ham has carefully documented this. Other propagation effects allow for working distant stations merely by tropospheric ducting pathways, or by lower ionospheric layers than the F layer. The E-layer, during the months of spring will support 6 Meter DX over thousands of miles. Even the atmospheric D-layer will also convey these 6 Meter signals during the strongest solar flares, or Proton events. We all know about F-layer DX, when the Sunspot cycle peaks every 11 years. It's those lag years in between though that bother me -- that's another reason why I like VHF and above! I don't need the F-layer, when the E-layer will work just fine all year and every year!
The F-layer, actually F1, and F2 layers reside at a height of about 150, and 200 miles respectively, and when they are ionized to the extent that they will provide a high order of signal refraction, they work very well. The E-layer resides about 85 miles up, and is often ionized by many more regular occurrences. This allows typical E-layer signal skip to support communication to about 1200 miles in a single hop. Multiple hop skip also happens very often supporting communication out to 2500, or even 3600 miles. I have in the past worked stations in South America via a probable combination of E-skip, and possibly some ducting.
Aside from these longer oriented signal aids, Troposheric ducting can support signal propagation out to several hundred miles. A good antenna, and a decently engineered station can work "Tropo" very easily. It does not require a huge investment, only a bit of education and desire!
The next method of VHF signal propagation is I think probably the most fun, that's Meteor Scatter! Meteor showers occur as regularly as sidereal time allows. They are notable at calendar dates, and can be counted on to provide good results. Even a quarter-wave Ground Plane antenna on 6 Meters works for this! My favorites on 6 Meters are:
Scorpiids June 2nd-17th
Pons Winnecke June 27 - 30th
Cygnids July 14th
Capricornids July 18 - 30th
Perseids July 25 - August 4th
Ursids December 22nd
The next and last requirement is the radio hardware. Well-engineered transverters are best, although on 6 Meters there are very many high quality transceivers. With one of these transceivers, and transverters for each higher frequency band to be engaged and explored allows excellent operative potential. These transverters are designed with superior quality front-end RF amplifiers for the receiver stage, and the transmitter power is already at a respectable 25 Watts. Linear power amplifiers are common with serious VHFers, and the best of them can produce legal limit power levels with only a few Watts of excitation drive. These utilize high mu ceramic tetrode vacuum tubes but, quite a few Hams use only Solid State 'bricks' of about 100 Watts output. Some Hams just use the transverter's basic output and with a decent antenna and do quite well!
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA4DOU on May 30, 2005
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Lately, I keep seeing reference to icw. Anyone want to clue me in as to what the i stands for?
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by KG4RUL on May 30, 2005
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"VHF Distant Communication or DX?"
The title question is still unanswered.
Dennis KG4RUL
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by AA4PB on May 30, 2005
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ICW = Interrupted Continuous Wave. It's the more technically correct term for what we normally call CW. CW is a Continuous Wave (uninterrupted or no keying).
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by KD5EZK on May 30, 2005
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"That kind of reminds me of guys that get a Volkswagen, and then try to turn it into a racecar!"
Until you've actually done this, you don't know what you're missing.
73
KD5EZK
"Do, or do not... there is no 'try'." - Yoda, Jedi Master (and fellow VW enthusiast)
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by KG6WLS on May 30, 2005
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VHF DX check list:
All mode Transceiver: CHECK
Feed line: CHECK
Resonant VHF antenna (vertical or horizontal): CHECK
VHF antenna tuner: CHECK
Watt meter: CHECK
Selectable filters: CHECK
Key (straight or iambic): CHECK
Log book or program: CHECK
QSL cards: CHECK
Propagation: E
Patience: VERY
More information can be found from the "Jedi Master" at:
www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2775/
73
Mike :)
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA6BFH on May 30, 2005
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We don't use no stink'n 'Antenna {System} Tuner' TransMatches for VHF!
Tooooooooo lossy!
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA6BFH on May 30, 2005
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In the way of the Jedi, should said have I, “not use tuner or TransMatch -- lossy much!”
Use Mother Nature, and the force, patience much!
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by N2BR on May 30, 2005
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KG6WLS
You for got the cold beer {CHECK}
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by KX9X on May 30, 2005
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Wonderful thread. After a year of inactivity, I'm getting back into radio. My current station is an Icom 706 Mk II and an indoor 6m dipole made of 18 gauge speaker wire. I've worked WY, SC, FL and various new england states with that setup from my 2nd floor apartment in EM59 (central IL). Not like the 6m and 2m beams at 72 feet I had a year ago, but I'l lget back to that point eventually. My point is that it doesn't take much at all to enjoy VHF openings. VHF/UHF is a blast. Check it out, you will be rewarded.
73,
Sean KX9X
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by W9OY on May 30, 2005
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Never use a tuner?
I used a beam designed by the late Russ Farnsworth (of the Farnsworth morse code method fame) that used a double extended zepp as the driven element. It had a 1/2 wave director or reflector lined up with the high current points of each half of the zepp. The high current points were co-linear. This antenna was fed with open wire line, and a balanced link coupled antenna tuner. It's performance was stellar.
W9OY
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by N0AH on May 30, 2005
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Of all the thousands of QSL cards I have received over the years, I only have two framed on the wall. My last card to complete my 5BWAZ from VU2WAP, and my only trans-atlantic 6 meter QSO with GM0EWX.
From the east coast of the states, this might seem a pop-shot.
But from Wyoming, my old QTH, it's only possible on a handful of days every 11 years with modest equipment.
I did it using a 3 element beam and 50 watts. I was very lucky and used every bit of DX experience I had to make it happen with a ton of luck and GM0EWX's amazing system. VHF is an amazing science.
Tell me VHF is not DX and I'll tell you to build a house in the old west and wait a long time to work Europe on 6 meters. You might do it this cycle, or you might have to wait another 11 years. Good luck. That is pretty much what it takes.
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by KB7LYM on May 30, 2005
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After reading this long article, I was tired ! Its beyond me the wisdom that is displayed here. But we older folks have also some wisdom as you you can read here.
WISDOM
A wealthy old lady decides to go on a photo safari in Africa, taking her
faithful aged poodle named Cuddles, along for the company.
One day the poodle starts chasing butterflies and before long, Cuddles
discovers that she's lost. Wandering about, she notices a leopard
heading rapidly
in her direction with the intention of having lunch.
The old poodle thinks, "Oh, oh! I'm in deep do-do now!" Noticing some
bones
on the ground close by, she immediately settles down to chew on the
bones
with her back to the approaching cat. Just as the leopard is about to
leap, the
old poodle exclaims loudly, "Boy, that was one delicious leopard! I
wonder if
there are any more around here?"
Hearing this, the young leopard halts his attack in mid-strike, a
look of
terror comes over him and he slinks away into the trees.
"Whew!", says the leopard, "That was close! That old poodle nearly
had me!"
Meanwhile, a monkey who had been watching the whole scene from a nearby
tree, figures he can put this knowledge to good use and trade it for
protection
from the leopard. So off he goes, but the old poodle sees him heading
after
the leopard with great speed, and figures that something must be up.
The monkey soon catches up with the leopard, spills the beans and
strikes a
deal for himself with the leopard. The young leopard is furious at
being made
a fool of and says, "Here, monkey, hop on my back and see what's
going to
happen to that conniving canine!"
Now, the old poodle sees the leopard coming with the monkey on his
back and
thinks, "What am I am going to do now?", but instead of running, the
dog sits
down with her back to her attackers, pretending she hasn't seen them
yet,
and just when they get close enough to hear, the old poodle says:
"Where's that
damn monkey? I sent him off an hour ago to bring me another leopard!"
Moral of this story.
Don't mess with old Hams ...age and treachery will always overcome
youth
and skill! Bullshit and brilliance only come with age and experience!
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA6BFH on May 30, 2005
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For those that have gotten the idea that I was posing or asking a question about DX, I was not! The title line bearing the question mark came from the E-ham editor! I don’t know why?
I tend to write out or explain abbreviations that might be common to Ham’s but, unknown to the lay public. I get many replies and e-mails from people in universities or others who have read my articles over the last couple of decades. I try to explain them well enough in lay terms, so that the public may gain some insight.
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by N0IU on May 31, 2005
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So you are saying that the 'average' ham is just too stupid to understand what you are saying unless you dumb it down for us?
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA6BFH on May 31, 2005
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No, I'm saying that the AVERAGE Ham, would USUALLY not consider himself part of the LAY PUBLIC pursuant to a topic discussion on aspects of Ham radio -- USUALLY!
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA4DOU on May 31, 2005
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Good article but there are several false statements contained therein. Among these is that a 4 element quad has 10.1 dbd gain achievable. Hardly! You'll be hard pressed to find more than about 7. Type N connectors do not begin to display any practical advantage until the frequency in question moves into the 300-400 mhz. range and even then its small, on the order of .1 db. The average ham does not understand what a db means so its easy for them to be misled by "popular wisdom", advertising hype, etc. Considering how difficult meteor scatter can be with 100 watts and a 3 element yagi, I wouldn't recommend a ground plane on 6 for anything more than casual FM. "Tropo" is an abreviation for troposcatter, not tropospheric bending. And since CW has served the ham world nicely for understanding what it means and stands for, I'll continue to use CW, not iCW.
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by N0IU on May 31, 2005
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WA6BFH wrote, "I tend to write out or explain abbreviations that might be common to Ham’s but, unknown to the lay public. I get many replies and e-mails from people in universities or others who have read my articles over the last couple of decades. I try to explain them well enough in lay terms, so that the public may gain some insight."
You do not, however, give us any insight as to the content of the replies from the universities. If you write a scholarly piece, but then have to go to such lengths to make it intelligible to the "...For Dummies" crowd, perhaps, just perhaps you are not targeting the proper audience. While I applaud any and all efforts to attract people into this hobby, don't you think this is a little over their heads? Why would someone who is not a ham be interested in this subject anyway? Do you think a non-ham who reads this will say, "Wow, this is cool! Now I want to become a ham so I can bounce signals off jet exhaust!"
Oh, and we are still waiting for your "compendium sociograph of overall ham activity" that you promised us way back on February 18 or are you still trying to figure out how a mode average will give you the answers you seek?
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by K0RGR on May 31, 2005
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In our training classes for new Techs, we've always emphasized the benefits of weak-signal modes, and the pitfalls of starting out with the 'hamshack on a belt'. Most of our students ignore us and go buy an HT anyway, because it's cheap, it's cute, and 'they are just getting started'. Those that don't are the ones that continue in the hobby and eventually upgrade.
I'm beginning to think that I'm really screwing up by not putting more emphasis on 6 meters. I think that a modest 6 meter station around here might serve a new Tech better than a 2 meter SSB rig, even though there are surely more people on 2 meter SSB during contests. The reliable Eskip openings in the months May-July, with the smaller peak in December-January, coupled with better meteor and aurora performance, might make up the difference. Besides which, 6 meters is more like HF operation in many ways.
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WB2WIK on May 31, 2005
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Some of this is mythological...
Planck's research and attributed constant of reknown only works at light frequencies.
The reason RF burns are worse at some frequencies than others is approaching the resonant frequency of water molecules creates more efficient heating; this is why microwave ovens operate at 2.4 GHz. Going higher doesn't cook better or faster.
A great piece on this is here...
http://chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/rfup/website/RF1.HTM#Direct
WB2WIK/6
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WB2WIK on May 31, 2005
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>Below thirty feet, VHF antennas will appear to lose gain. Above this point, signal gain is effectively improved. Be careful though because as this height increases, losses in feedline can offset gain!<
::Almost never happens. The "signal gain" discussed isn't any change in actual antenna gain, it's enhancement created by having a longer horizon, since attenuation to the horizon is calculable and extremely predictable and beyond it gets much worse, relying on variables that often aren't well predicted. So, the farther your horizon is, the farther you'll generally work on VHF.
To create a system where line loss starts canceling enhancement created by having a higher antenna, one needs to be using really lossy feedline or operating at such high frequencies that conventional lines already have a lot of loss, e.g., above 1 GHz. At six meters, or even two meters, the only time line loss will exceed enhancement by increased height is when the station's already on a mountaintop and has such a substantial horizon that increasing antenna height more will hardly make any difference.
There are two well known tricks for usual (home station) effective use of transmission lines:
1. If the line is "vertical," make it as long as you want to and the system performance enhancement will overcome line loss.
2. Longer lines are preferable to shorter ones; see (1) above, as to "why."
WB2WIK/6
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WB2WIK on May 31, 2005
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>RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX? Reply
by WA4DOU on May 31, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Considering how difficult meteor scatter can be with 100 watts and a 3 element yagi, I wouldn't recommend a ground plane on 6 for anything more than casual FM. "Tropo" is an abreviation for troposcatter, not tropospheric bending.<
::Good points. I always throught "tropo" was short for "tropospheric," and meant "all VHF-UHF communications not propagated via ionospheric means," or in other words, about 99% of what all of us actually work on VHF & UHF.
I agree I wouldn't recommend a ground plane for 6m m.s. work. Nothing's impossible, but this is really fighting an uphill battle. Nothing like a good beam, aimed towards the station of intention and hoping meteors fall in between (they always do), for working m.s.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA6BFH on May 31, 2005
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Hmmmm, I love this sort of negative diatribe! Let’s see now,
<a 4 element quad has 10.1 dbd gain achievable. Hardly! You'll be hard pressed to find more than about 7>
This is a gain figure that was arrived at during the field tests of the 1976 VHF Conference sponsored annually in California. It confirmed the gain of the best manufactured antennas of the day. If you are calling me a liar, I have some good company that I’m sure will be interested!
<Type N connectors do not begin to display any practical advantage until the frequency in question moves into the 300-400 MHz. range and even then its small, on the order of .1 db.>
Without looking it up, I’m not sure that I agree with .1 db but, I concede the point. The main thought though is that it makes sense to use these connectors for overall MF through SHF station engineering. They do no harm even as low as MF/HF (where my retired VHF/UHF coax settles) and up at UHF and in some applications SHF, they pay off. They are also weather proof, and also make sense for my patch panels!
< The average ham does not understand what a db means so its easy for them to be misled by "popular wisdom", advertising hype, etc. >
I agree! So instead of being a nit-picker, explain dB measurements in a scientific manner!
<Considering how difficult meteor scatter can be with 100 watts and a 3 element yagi, I wouldn't recommend a ground plane on 6 for anything more than casual FM. >
Meteor Scatter on 6 Meters is easy! I worked many showers on an old Quarter-wave Ground Plane (Uh, at 30 feet) and about 12 Watts. Maybe your 3 element beam was often pointed the wrong way? My Ground Plane was always looking in just the right direction! Or, maybe your 3 Element beam had the WRONG polarity. My vertical Ground Plane was always also always looking at a nice low angle, and often beat the pants off my wide-spaced {12 foot boom} (8 dBd) 4 element horizontal Yagi.
<"Tropo" is an abreviation for troposcatter, not tropospheric bending.>
More nit-picking! Let me get into my Ross Hull research some more, I need to do this anyway. I will let him explain it to you!
<And since CW has served the ham world nicely for understanding what it means and stands for, I'll continue to use CW, not iCW>
Ok, be ignorant if you like. I’m sure that I can force no change there!
73’zzzzzz!
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WB2WIK on May 31, 2005
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>RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX? Reply
by WA6BFH on May 31, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Meteor Scatter on 6 Meters is easy! I worked many showers on an old Quarter-wave Ground Plane (Uh, at 30 feet) and about 12 Watts.<
::John, this seems ridiculous. Two reasons: (1) "Many showers" implies you're working meteors only during showers, which of course only occur several times each year. I work m.s. in between the showers, when rates fall to 6/h or fewer. No shower required to work meteors on six, if you're equipped for it. (2) If you really believe your 6m ground plane is well equipped to work meteors on six, I'll offer a personal challenge: Let's get on 6m this coming Sunday morning at 6:00 local time, and work meteors, together. I'll be using my beam, you use your ground plane. Let's use SSB, and see who makes contacts.
::BTW, the right direction to aim a beam for m.s. is directly at the station you're trying to work, unless you can elevate your antenna above the horizon. The whole reason to work m.s. is to work station on the other side of the trail, otherwise they won't be "DX."
-WB2WIK/6
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA6BFH on May 31, 2005
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Steve, of course I mean during the major showers! Who the hell wants to sit around listening to individual pings, and chasing them, thats insane!
Or maybe it is attitudinal? Like going out in roving contest packs to -- basically contest against yourself!
I'm still look'n at your responses. You won't be ignored! Excuse me, I think my back is getting wet again? Must be someone taking a leak!
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA6BFH on May 31, 2005
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K0RGR, I think that you have seen and taken the right attitude as to my article. I would encourage you to make this stronger point -- to prospective ham’s that want to have a Ham Shack on their belt.
6 Meters is fun and easy. DX at this relatively long wavelength (as you allude) does not have to be a strain or torture. Shoot, look at Caity, she runs QRP into a damn loop at 10 or 12 feet, and still works folks. I think that going to a bit further engineering is a good thing but, that’s not difficult! A thirty foot mast or tower (higher IS better) and a nice Quarter-wave Ground Plane will work and do fine.
It is, as you have pointed out, more rewarding than playing with cute little handie-talkies! Thank real Ham’s for that!
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WB2WIK on May 31, 2005
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>RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX? Reply
by WA6BFH on May 31, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Steve, of course I mean during the major showers! Who the hell wants to sit around listening to individual pings, and chasing them, thats insane!<
::I hear a lot more than individual pings in between the showers. With enough antenna gain, you can ragchew off meteors 365 days a year. K6MYC can do that, as can a few others. With my single beam at 60 feet, I can hear multiple syllables and sometimes multiple words on a single burn, so completing a QSO with a very savvy m.s. operator takes maybe 10 mins.
>Or maybe it is attitudinal? Like going out in roving contest packs to -- basically contest against yourself!<
::Maybe. But roving in packs is a competitive sport, and you're competing against other groups who are also roving in packs, and there are several good ones.
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on May 31, 2005
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WA6BFH
One should never make replies to ones own article... all you are doing is going into the defensive-mode and people will continue to find fault with everything once they have you on the run...
I got the meaning of the article and got what you were trying to say -- I guess the point I am making is if you are going to write an article in a forum full of sharpshooters and trolls then you need to make especially sure that you have your facts right....
I for one give you credit for trying ..
but after you hit the submit button just let it go...
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WB2WIK on May 31, 2005
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>VHF Distant Communication or DX? Reply
by N0AH on May 30, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Of all the thousands of QSL cards I have received over the years, I only have two framed on the wall. My last card to complete my 5BWAZ from VU2WAP, and my only trans-atlantic 6 meter QSO with GM0EWX.
From the east coast of the states, this might seem a pop-shot.
But from Wyoming, my old QTH, it's only possible on a handful of days every 11 years with modest equipment.<
::Yep. Of course with less modest equipment, it's easier. Taking the station portable to the top of a 10,000 foot hill or so makes it easier still....
>Tell me VHF is not DX and I'll tell you to build a house in the old west and wait a long time to work Europe on 6 meters. You might do it this cycle, or you might have to wait another 11 years. Good luck. That is pretty much what it takes.<
::Luck helps. Timing really helps. Having a separate six meter rig that's always scanning the low end listening for beacons and is turned on 24 hours a day with the volume turned up helps even more. -WB2WIK/6
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA2AR on May 31, 2005
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All mode VHF/UHF Xceiver $1,350
Twin Stacked 50 and 144 Mhz Yagis $1,700
Times Microwave LMR 600 $800.00
Realizing you just spent $4K to talk to Clem the guy you saw two weeks ago at Dayton that spilled ketchup all over your shirt shirt while making a mad dash for the prize claim booth............... priceless.
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on May 31, 2005
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actually its more like:
All mode VHF/UHF Xceiver $1,350
Twin Stacked 50 and 144 Mhz Yagis $1,700
Times Microwave LMR 600 $800.00
Realizing you didnt want to spend the time or effort to get an HF license and speak to the world for $400 on 20 meters what you have to spend $4000 on to speak across state............... priceless.
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA6BFH on May 31, 2005
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I would rather have a nice 10 to 20 minute QSO with each station on an arc from Texas on up to Oregon/Washington -- and maybe these days out across the Bearing Sea toward Russia as the Earth rotates below the meteor shower! That will take me from mid-evening into the early morning hours, and rack up a dozen or more nice conversational QSO's!
That can be done with a Quarter-wave Ground Plane, the front-end sensitivity and noise figure of a 6CW4, and about 10 Watts to the {30 foot high Ground Plane} antenna. I used to do it all the time on "AM" (of course 10 Watts of SSB would be worth about 100 Watts of "AM") with my trusty HA-460!
If I had Mike's resources, I too would probably excercise them, even for pings. The point is, do you want to work someone because you make such a push-push attitude to do it, or is it not better to sit back and see how much of of the effort is Mother Nature?
Look at the differences then and now (Mother Nature works the same):
6CW4 vs. modern low noise front-end of higher gain.
100 Watts basic transmitter now, instead of 10 then.
Don't beat yourself up -- work'um and have fun!
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA6BFH on May 31, 2005
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Goatherder,
1) I am never on the run! I state simple facts, others can confirm them, or refute them. Physics works, and I welcome them to make the test!
Thank you for giving me credit "for trying"!
I encourage you to try also!
1) I would suggest that first you need to get a Ham license. That is a primary move, and will give you a whole new perspective.
2) It will allow you to present your opinions on the field of peers (well sorta). Be cautious though, some are not so honorable, and sometimes worse!
3) After you have spent a few decades learning things, you may want to help others. It is rewarding!
Have a nice day, and 73! de John WA6BFH
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on May 31, 2005
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WA6BFH
you need to make sure you get my name right so you know who to send your fathers day card to...!!!
anyway .... you write an article... then you troll yourself... in one swift move you have made yourself look like a moron -- again...
90% of the folks find problems with your article -- you start defending yourself with results from a test you did back in the Seventies ...
and yep -- your article has more holes in it then a dozen donuts...
so hey .. great job there WA6BFH ....
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by KG6WLS on May 31, 2005
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Hmmmm, I notice that the ! button on the keyboard sure gets used a lot John
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by W8KQE on May 31, 2005
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"Volkswagens into race cars"?! Perish the thought!
http://www.hpamotorsports.com/r32.htm
Could anyone have ever imagined a 550HP AWD R32 VW 'GOLF' that does 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, and the 1/4 mile in 11.49?! The IC-7800 of VW's!
Anyway, you DON'T need directional antennas to do decently on 6m when working E-skip or Aurora. Case in point: in the four years i've casually been on 6m SSB and CW, i've worked 256 total 'grids', which includes all 'lower 48' states, and 24 countries. The ONLY antenna i've used is a PAR 'Omniangle' loop at 25 feet, and i've always run 'barefoot' (100w max) since I don't have an amplifier. Many contacts were 'aurora' too. You CAN have success and fun on 'the magic band' even if you are running a simple setup.
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA4DOU on May 31, 2005
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WA6BFH: OK John, lets take it from the top!
I'm not calling you a liar. I am taking issue with your facts. As regards the quad, the arguement about which antenna, quad or yagi has been going on for decades, just like the Ford & Chevy debate. The debate was settled, the yagi won. The yagi is a high Q antenna, the quad is a low Q antenna. The quad has had proponents who swear it outperforms the yagi, element for element, boom length for boom length. Some of these have been well known and well respected figures. However the quad just doesn't seem to have readily duplicatable gain figures in test after test. We used to believe that a single quad driven element had about 2 db of gain. Over the years that got adjusted down to about .85 db gain. Even the 2 element quad can't seem to muster up a readily replicatable gain of 5 db consistently. The tribander test report sold by Champion Radio in QST ads reveals that a number of triband yagis and one 2 element quad were tested and the authors were unable to replicate even 5 db of measurable gain in the quad. BUT, assuming for a moment that it is possible to achieve 5 db gain with a 2 element quad, where do you think that 5 db additional gain with 2 directors is comming from? At best each director will add close to a db, thus arriving at a figure approximating 7 db for a 4 element quad. If you sacrifice f/b ratio, feedpoint impedance, and bandwidth considerations, you may squeeze an additional db out. If it were possible to achieve 10 dbd gain with a 4 element quad, don't you think every EME station in existence would be using arrays of them? The quad was created to solve a problem with corona at high power levels at high altitude. Theres nothing magic about it and it doesn't outperform a yagi with the same number of elements.
As regards the type N connector, there is no reason you may not use them at any frequency you like, MF, HF, VHF, UHF, SHF, etc. However, in the lower UHF and upper VHF range, there is no particular technically justifible reason to employ them, unless you are obsessed with the possible collection of every tiny fraction of a db that you can gain in the hope that it may lead to the absolute optimally performing station. In that case you would not employ Belden coaxial cable in 50 ft. lengths but would instead employ 1/2" or 7/8th " Heliax. A few tenth's of a db here and there can in various areas can eventually add up to a significant amount.
Type N connectors are sometimes touted as being weatherproof. Some of them do include seals, often "O" rings. However, I know of no one who would trust any connector outdoors, N connectors included, without several layers of additional weatherproofing.
Troposcatter is a common method of propagation. Tropospheric ducting and bending are considerably less frequent in occurance. Thats why tropo became synonomous with scatter. I personally prefer to use scatter or bending/ducting to be more precise.
Say John, aren't you the guy who started the thread about the Super High Gain Antennas approximating 30 db? Other than parabola's many times larger than the wavelength that they're used at, I know of no antennas that humans have ever constructed that can approach 30 db.
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by N0AH on June 1, 2005
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A. This article was about DX.
B. Oh, I guess working Europe from 7 land is easy. Thank you for letting me know all I have to do is leave my radio on for 24 hours a day on a mountain at least 10,000 feet tall.
The experience on this thread is just a great vast wealth of goo. The writer claims it is not about DX although it is mention 10,000 times in the article, and I have a few world class operators telling me how they work EU everyday on six meters from the left coast. Peachy.
Going back to ham school now. Throwing out all credentials. Joining writing school about poodles in Africa. Heck, I might just buy MFJ gear again believing all those great ads. Migrating to Canada. Will finally burn draft card. And no more monkeys jumping on the bed. Cause one fell off and bumped his head.
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA4DOU on June 1, 2005
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I have no doubt that working Europe and Africa from 7 land is just as challenging as working the Pacific & Asia from the east coast on 6 meters. I was stuck for decades at 48 states on 6 but 3 years ago I finally bagged KL7. I've heard KH6 but never managed to work it. I do have Guam & New Zealand on 6 but still need an Asian for WAC.
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by KB2VXA on June 1, 2005
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Hi all,
I must be the antithisis of this whole discussion having worked 6M DX aurora, meteor scatter and all the usual using my modest IC-706Mk2G and dipole @40'AMSL. North America is shooting fish in a barrel, TA a bit harder, TE about the same and last year I got a lucky shot into Hawaii. I agree with one point and will add my own empasis, a 6M HT is as useless as those peculiar apendages on a bull. The bottom line is you can work the average opening with that proverbial wet spaghetti, that's a pretty good reason it's called the magic band.
As for 2M, 222 and 70cM, unfortunately I'm stuck with a vertical at least for the time being. Cross-polarization on SSB doesn't help but sometimes doesn't hurt (much) either, If the other guy switches to vertical a good QSO follows. Then too I have worked all up and down the Eastern Seaboard on FM simplex and once in a while when traffic is low we've had some dandy "linked" repeater systems going. A few years ago I worked from the Canadian Maritimes to Florida with my 2M HT, literally armchair copy if you know what I mean. (wink)
Then there was this guy who busted my chops while calling CQDX on 6M FM simplex, never mind the lid, I just switched off for the time being and went back to working the opening when it got even more intense. (;->)
The bottom line is you don't need a millionare's station to have fun in the magical world above 50mHz, all you need is good operating practice, skill and patience, LOTS of patience.
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WB2WIK on June 1, 2005
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N0AH: Nobody said working EU from 7-land on six meters was easy. It's been done, but I doubt anybody will say it's easy.
The 24/7 monitoring and mountaintop location make it easi-er, but still not easy.
I'm in 6-land, and it ain't easy from here, either. I've lived in L.A. for 17 years and have been on six meters the entire time (in addition to HF and other VHF bands) and have worked EU about 100 times, but all those contacts were during the wild peak of Cycle 23 in November 2001. If I hadn't been listening then, all those 100 contacts would not have been made because I've never heard EU on 50 MHz any other time, yet.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WB2WIK on June 1, 2005
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Point of note: 6m Au is pretty easy to work with modest stuff if you're far enough north. Here in L.A., the average 1500W station with large stacked beams has never heard an Aurora signal on six meters.
Those north of the Mason-Dixon line have probably *seen* Aurora, if they looked for it. Down farther south, we never see it, never hear it, never work it.
OTOH, here in southern California it takes only reasonably good timing to catch a duct into KH6, and when that occurs, you can work the Big Island on 144-222-432-903-1296-2304-and on. Doesn't seem to work on six meters.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WB2WIK on June 1, 2005
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>RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX? Reply
by WA4DOU on June 1, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I do have Guam & New Zealand on 6 but still need an Asian for WAC.<
Two easy steps for this:
Wait for Cycle 24 peak, whenever that happens. Check MUF to be sure it's above 50 MHz.
Relocate six meter station temporarily atop Mt. Mitchell, NC, set up beam aimed NW and call CQ JA on six. Guaranteed you'll work Asia.
This is pretty much what I did to make my first Asian contacts on six when I lived back in NJ....that was during Cycle 21 in 1979.
WB2WIK/6
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by W9DZ on June 1, 2005
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W4RNL, L.B. Cebik, has done quite a bit of modeling on VHF quads. Interesting reading at <http://www.cebik.com/quad/2mq.html>. I've played with quads on both HF and VHF and could never see any advantage, especially when you consider the fact that the quad is three dimensional and takes up lots of space on the mast.
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by KB1GMX on June 1, 2005
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Well some think it can cost alot. Maybe.
Me, my first contact was using a homebrew with 5W into a two element homebrew yagi at 18ft. That setup only got me two countries and 31 states.
Moved up to a used 3 element(CC A503)and a 2m 15 element boomer at 20ft and broke the bank for 6n2.
between poles and antennas and a ratshack rotor
I'm out maybe 100$. With 20W and another year I'm
up to 48 states and added 3 more countries.
Current setup is still modest. Changed out the push up pole for 27ft of Rohn25. It carries the 15element boomer for 2 and a Arrow 52s4 4 element for 6 and a few others off the side for FM work. Went for buryflex as the longest run of coax is 47ft radio to antenna (2m) and run the whole mess on solar/battery. Maybe an investment of 1300$ spent over a few years and that includes the solar pannel and radios. Right now this setup works every station a neighbor with every thing plus a KW and untold dollar$ invested.
My usual fun is a KK7B based miniR2/T2 rig running
6W carrier on CW and about the same SSB. If I can
hear them I usually work them, assuming they can
hear at all. I love working with low power on
battery.
Someday I may take that pair of 4cx250s in the junkbox
and light them up. I'm tempted but, that feels like overkill. Besides it's hard to run off battery.
Average opening, I work stations anywhere. Killer station, no. Plenty adaquate to work Tropo, Ducts, scatter, Es and groundwave. Fun, you bet.
6M and even 2m is not easy. It's attainable for modest means but it's not FM 2m repeaters. Eveything I learned
on 6m/2m applies to HF save for making a full sized beam for 40 would be a pain.
Allison
KB1GMX
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by W4KYR on June 1, 2005
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I find working a station 300 miles away with just 50 watts and a small 3 element beam a thrill.
It was more thrilling to get Upper Michigan and Southern Ontario on 2 meter SSB with 50 watts and a really small beam antenna from Central Kentucky then getting a "59" on 10 meters from Europe.
There is more of a thrill in getting the East Coast on 6 meters then getting the West Coast on 20 meters.
When one is getting kind of burnt out on " you are 59" on 20 meters, its time for a little challenge,and VHF and UHF is that challenge.
If you already own a 2meter SSB radio and haven't tried it yet... give it a try. It doesnt take much money, a small 3 element beam can be had for under $50.
Better yet get a 10 element beam and a 150 watt amp and have a lot of fun on 2 meters SSB. With a set up like that, two simularly equipped stations can QSO which each other 200 miles on a daily basis.
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by N3AIU on June 1, 2005
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You don't need much of a station to work decent DX on 6m. Running five watts into a coathanger through wet string will probably work (grin) ...
Last night, I worked Alaska on 6m CW (excuse me, iCW) by running 100W (IC706MkIIG) into my 80m full-wave horizontal loop (40 feet high) through an HF tuner. Yes, yes, I know that beams will work better under less than perfect propagation conditions and that tuners are lossy, but my set up work just fine.
If you're new to ham radio, if it's summertime, and if you have an all-band XCVR with an HF antenna and tuner, just park on 50.125 and listen for an Es opening. When one occurs, you will have a blast. I've been a ham and DXer for more than 30 years, and I've never had so much fun as I've had on 6m.
73, Nick N3AIU
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on June 1, 2005
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WA6BFH or should I say GHOSTRLDERHF
I am flattered that you, WA6BFH, would go to the trouble to sign up for a callsign GHOSTRLDERHF, just so you could try to emmulate me...
I am flattered.
But a little disappointed in your creativeness.
But just keep trying.
GhostriderHF.
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA6BFH on June 1, 2005
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Nick, if your antenna is fed with balanced line, why not build a simple Q-line matching transformer out of copper pipe. Thereby, when you want to play on 6, the only major loss in your system (the HF TransMatch) will be mitigated!
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by KC8YYO on June 1, 2005
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX? Reply
by WA4DOU on May 31, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Good article but there are several false statements contained therein. Among these is that a 4 element quad has 10.1 dbd gain achievable. Hardly! You'll be hard pressed to find more than about 7. Type N connectors do not begin to display any practical advantage until the frequency in question moves into the 300-400 mhz. range and even then its small, on the order of .1 db. The average ham does not understand what a db means so its easy for them to be misled by "popular wisdom", advertising hype, etc. Considering how difficult meteor scatter can be with 100 watts and a 3 element yagi, I wouldn't recommend a ground plane on 6 for anything more than casual FM. "Tropo" is an abreviation for troposcatter, not tropospheric bending. And since CW has served the ham world nicely for understanding what it means and stands for, I'll continue to use CW, not iCW.
hahahha If they read the tech manual they will know what db is becasue its right in there. you should go back and read.
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by AB7JK on June 1, 2005
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Another contentious article with everyone bickering about nothing!!!
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA6BFH on June 1, 2005
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A contentious article? What in particular is contentious about it?
I think it has brought fourth some good thoughts and commentary! Even if some of them are negative, if even that negativity has made the commenter’s think about their content and motivations, that’s not a bad thing!
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by N3AIU on June 1, 2005
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WA6BFH:
Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, I feed the loop with RG8 now, not balanced line, the latter being impractical right now. I have a coil of coax acting as a choke balun near the antenna feed point.
I tried this loop on 6m on a whim, and it actually worked. Like I said, almost anything will work when the band is open. Eventually, I will consider a more permanent solution.
TNX ES 73, Nick N3AIU
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by X-WB1AUW on June 1, 2005
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Thanks for the article.
I had TONS of FUN as a Novice.
Perhaps, your article will steer Techs into areas of VHF/UHF where they too will have TONS of FUN.
73
Bob
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by KG6WLS on June 1, 2005
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Alright, alright!
Here's my take on this and you can call me what ever you want (novice, no-code tech, newbie, lid, etc.)
After reading the authors article several times over, I found it to be very challenging to keep up with what he was trying to explain, let alone staying awake. But me, being an AVERAGE HAM, what could one expect?
From what I have gathered, it appears that alot of midnight oil was burned over the years (probally some other stuff too!) to become so enriched with knowledge that puts most of us AVERAGE hams to the curb. For cryin' out loud, it's a hobby! Some hams, new or old, (careful, I'm not talking age here) don't have massive farmland to errect towers with beams. Myself, I live in a CC&R enviroment and don't have the space or the nod to put anything up in the air. Yeah, that's my own fault and my reasons for living where I'm at is another story. However, with alot of thought, reading, Google searching, talking with REAL elmers in the club, and cleverness, I was able to build 1/2" copper 6 & 2 meter loops and design it in such a way that it's secured to the plumbing vent stacks on the roof, two stories, 25 feet up. The neighbors can't see them from their location (HI) and I can work stations 100 miles away, excluding the neighbors (HI, HI). Hell, others (TECHS, GENERALS, EXTRAS) saw my ideas at a club meeting one night and took to it. I built several of these for local hams out here. Some built there own with the plans that I drew up.
O.K., I've only been a ham since Oct.'04, but what I have learned is that it doesn't make a damn bit of difference how smart one is, or what operating privilages you have to work VHF/UHF. When 6 opens up, I here alot of CQ'ing being thrown out there by EVERYONE. Why? Because it's a challenge. It's rewarding to work other States, and/or countries on a band (that is not always open like "dial a DX") that requires patience and timing. Within a couple of hours, in and out of the shack a couple of weeks ago when 6 opened, I worked 24 different stations from DM12 to CM, CN, DN, DM, and EM. All with a single stinking loop 25' up in the air at 50 watts out! Imagine that.
Also, what I have learned is that there is sure alot of gut slinging when articles like this are posted. I myself did go out on a limb with the "Debate Is On" author on how I thought his daily routine was portrayed. But, I did find that his last article was quite informative to the AVERAGE ham. Thank you K0BG.
I came to eHam looking for reviews on rigs that I had interest with for my $budget$ and my needs when I got my ticket, NOT for elmering. But, the articles and forums that I read here on e-Slam are quite entertaining. Sometimes I wonder if more time is spent putting articles like this together and defending ones self, than sitting in the shack working DX on any band. After reading KB7LYM's WISDOM response to this article, I found it to be humorous and to the point! I find that LYM seems to be a REAL ham that enjoys his hobby and is not a smug sob. When I upgrade my privilages, I would sure like to work people such as LYM.
This is a HOBBY, and I don't spend several evenings crunching numbers with, math, physics, ohms law, and dBi losses with feedline to an antenna. But don't get me wrong. I save and use that knowledge for work. I've been in the electrical trade for 20 plus years and I can relate to losses and voltage drop by simple calculations. Whether it's found in the NEC code books that I have (also known as the electrcians Bible), or various text books that I've collected over the years. It's all relatively the same, to a point. Wire, or any kind of metal does, and will have losses. That's a given! I don't care if it's RF, or an electric motor being fed 10 miles away. To hear one sing about his/her knowledge almost scares me. I've worked with people over the years that have the SAME attributes as the author and I've almost gotten killed because of it.
I will continue to visit these threads, read, share my views, thoughts, and experiance. Books will be read (without the hype) of my interest to ham radio. But, in closing, I will say this:
Read
Ask
Decide
Invest
Operate
Spells RADIO. It's a HOBBY! Put up what ever you can in the air(vertical or horizontal) thats resonant to your favorite band, don't take it seriously, and have fun. ;-)
73
Mike
KG6WLS
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on June 2, 2005
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KG6WLS --
what a great response. You hit the nail right on the head. Its a hobby.
Of course, you, as most others on this site does, quickly realizes that most of these so called "Elmers" here on E-Slam spend most of their days here on the internet and not on their radio. In fact I thnk the only radio that mnost of them have is CBs in their 1970 Pinto...
But watch out .. WA6BFH (the author of this confusing, technically incorrect article) will have to make up another fake callsign to give you a rebuttal since thats how he operates -- but dude -- great job...
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by N0IU on June 2, 2005
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Why do John's posts stir up more controversy than anyone elses?
Clearly, he enjoys VHF operating. I think most of us have a favorite band, mode or type of operating. I think one of the best things we can do to promote our hobby is share our enthusiasm with other hams and potential ham and I applaud this effort. The problem with John is that he seems to think that his way is the only way. Back in March, he wrote an 'article' about 6 meters. In one of his responses he wrote, "So, for all those guys out there that want to hang around only on 80, 40, and 20 Meters because, Mother nature makes that easy, I guess you can keep on ‘loading up the bed springs’, and take the easy way out."
Enthusiasm = Good
Insulting people who operate different bands = Bad
Another reason some people seem to dislike John is his superiority complex. Of course he is smarter than us, just ask him! Back in February, he wrote an 'article' on The Culture of Radio. In addition to working VHF, John also likes getting into people's heads and finding out what makes them tick. Unfortunately John's attempt at a scholarly endeavour proved to be over the heads of some of the readers. He responded to this by saying, "There were obviously a few that just didn’t get what I was asking at all but, what are ya gonna do? I will think about this and perhaps keep my next story closer to single syllables, and using Ham radio to coordinate squirrel hunts for the evening dinner!"
Being curious about social behavior = Good
Insulting people who you deem to be inferior = Bad
The one 'article' that convinced me that John was a total fraud was the one in February entitled The Rest of the Story. This was the third installment in his series in which he hopes to, "write up a compendium sociograph of overall Ham activity." WOW! Compendium Sociograph. Only two words, but eight, count 'em, EIGHT syllables! He later uses the term 'Gausian' (which is mis-spelled) in one of his posts. That one was only three syllables. When one writes scholarly pieces, one should adapt their writing style to suit their target audience. If you look at John's response above, he thinks most hams are freakin' idiots, but yet he uses terms that he believes will elevate him far above the unwashed masses. So who is he trying to impress?
The statement that proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that John is a fake when it comes to his qualifications in the area of data collection and analysis was his response in this article that said, "What is your “mode” average expenditure for given years, and how many different years do you think have shown such ‘mode’ peaks." He goes on to write, "A mode average represents a perhaps unusual peak in the overall averaged data." There is no gray area here, this is a factual error. This is simply not the definition of mode. Mode is the most frequently occuring number in a string of numbers... period! It always has been and always will. This isn't my opinion. It is elementary school arithmatic. In this article, he writes, "I get many replies and e-mails from people in universities..." How can someone who writes such scholarly pieces make such a glaring error?
The answer is easy. He is not the least bit scholarly in my opinion. So to answer my question at the top, John is insulting, rude, condescending and just plain old wrong when it comes to his so-called analytical skills. If he does not understand elementary school arithmatic, how is it that he can understand complex electronic formulae? His enthusiasm is great, but everything else is suspect!
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by NT4XT on June 2, 2005
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Wendt's doing it again... just when the excitement and interest of the last similar article is waning from my memory, out comes this- once again peaking my curiosity for 6 meters. Now I'm hearing 6 has been open lately, and very exciting. I may've erred in chosing HF rigs that don't have 6 meters. Makes me think, dude- you probably should have opted for that FT 920 or 570SG you were so hot on 3 years ago! I hear the 920 on 6m is super.
Nicely written, informative article. It motivates, excites, and provides practical information to get people turned on, and tuned in. I'll likely reference it in the future for the propagation info.
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA2JJH on June 2, 2005
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It is both.
I have see 2M open up. It is rare.
However if one use's high gain antenna's and high power, it is Distant communication.
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on June 2, 2005
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NT4XT states "Nicely written, informative article. It motivates, excites, and provides practical information to get people turned on, and tuned in. I'll likely reference it in the future for the propagation info."
Dude -- did you actually even read the thing...??? What propagation info are you talking about???
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by VA2DV on June 2, 2005
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Nice article.
Would like to see more like this one.
Beginning on June 7,i'll be part of the CY9SS Dxpedition to St-Paul's Island.A great part of our efforts are going to be in the VHF-UHF spectrum.This is not happening very often.We will operate with extensive 2m and 6m arrays toward NA and Europe.
Hope to catch you from there !
Dave VA2DV
See the website : www.cy9ss.com
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on June 2, 2005
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NT4XT states "Nicely written, informative article. It motivates, excites, and provides practical information to get people turned on, and tuned in. I'll likely reference it in the future for the propagation info."
Dude -- did you actually even read the thing...??? What propagation info are you talking about???
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by LID2LID on June 2, 2005
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If you really want people to get interested in 6m, why not point them to the book "SIX METERS: A Guide To The Magic Band"?
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by GHOSTRLDERHF on June 2, 2005
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I think it's funny when someone without a callsign actually comments on the technical merits of an article by a licensed operator, and refers to Elmers by writing that they had cb's in their Pintos in the 70's.
GHOSTRIDERHF is a seriously disturbed individual. Probably, he got into trouble with the FCC, or continuously failed to pass the Tech exam. Something, SOMETHING, is really eating him. He seems to be a very bitter man (child?). Maybe he is Jack Gerritsen? (Rerad his profile-a big similarity there). I noticed he disappeared from the forum for awhile when Jack was arrested. Maybe he made bail and came back.
I am GHOSTRIDERHF.
You'll never see any comments from me of a technical nature, because I know zero, zip, nada. For that reason, you'll never see me post anything worthwhile.
I like to make snide remarks about the work of others, because I do none myself.
I spout nonsense because I live vicariously through others, and I frequently cite a lot of nonsensical data to make my point. Example:
<<actually its more like:
All mode VHF/UHF Xceiver $1,350
Twin Stacked 50 and 144 Mhz Yagis $1,700
Times Microwave LMR 600 $800.00
Realizing you didnt want to spend the time or effort to get an HF license and speak to the world for $400 on 20 meters what you have to spend $4000 on to speak across state............... priceless>>
Just shows that I can browse ham equipment sites, but that's about all.
It's obvious to anyone who pays attention that I am not, nor never will be a ham, because it requires effort, and I'm just too lazy for it.
Again, don't look for any of my posts on any technical articles where some knowledge is required, but I relish the opportunity to attack people, because I'm a pretty pathetic human being.
I am GHOSTRIDERHF, hear me whine!
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on June 2, 2005
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WA6BFH
Everyone realizes that you are pretending to be GHOSTRLDERHF
That you are doing this is just toooo funny...
And whoever ever said that you were an ELMER???
Time for you to make up yet another callsign to say what a great article you wrote -- cause it turns out that you are the only one that you can find that is agreeing with yourself...
TTFN...
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on June 2, 2005
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WA6BFH
<"I think it's funny when someone without a callsign actually comments on the technical merits of an article by a licensed operator">
And I think its fricking hilarious -- albeit sad -- that someone with a General class license can be soooo wrong so often about technical issues.
Just goes to prove that just becuase you pass a 5wpm code and memorize a few questions to get your Generals License -- you still can have the technical knowledge of a third grader ...
PS -- Sorry to all the third graders that I offended. I did not mean to lessen you by comparing you to WA6BFH
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by GHOSTRIDERHF on June 3, 2005
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WA2JJH
Wow -- welcome back -- glad to see that the state released you or were you allowed to check yourself out anytime you thought you were cured?
Anyway -- very proud of your ability now to almost formulate a complete sentence... although not much of a comeback though
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA2JJH on June 3, 2005
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Those north of the Mason-Dixon line have probably *seen* Aurora, if they looked for it. Down farther south, we never see it, never hear it, never work it.
The aurora project? declassifed.
Takes off like an F-32 Rapture, then uses RAM/SRAM engines for hypersonic speed Mach 8 or better.
Then uses solid fuel rocket to BOUNCE-ORBIT the earth.
I do not think WB6WIK are talking about the same thing
that is the worlds most spoken about classifed replacement for the f-74 blackbird and perhaps the space
shuttle.
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WA4DOU on June 3, 2005
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I saw a red aurora once while growing up in Morehead City,NC back in the '50's. It is probably seen a handful of times in a lifetime this far south and declines as you go further south.
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WR8Y on June 3, 2005
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"""" Another contentious article with everyone bickering about nothing!!!""""
Eham could be such a good place, I stop by from time to time, but this is too much.
Any site where posters can be anonymous AND moderation is non-existant will turn into this.
This is how you moderate a site: www.thespaceport.us
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by WB2WIK on June 3, 2005
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>RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX? Reply
by WA4DOU on June 3, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I saw a red aurora once while growing up in Morehead City,NC back in the '50's. It is probably seen a handful of times in a lifetime this far south and declines as you go further south.<
::Yep. Growing up in NJ, I saw it more often. The guys up in Montreal used to see it *very* often, and tell me about it. Sure tip: If you look up, or north, and see the aurora curtain flickering about, it's easy to work on VHF! Never failed: If I could "see it," I could work it. Of course, I could also work it plenty of times when I couldn't see anything.
WB2WIK/6
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by NT4XT on June 3, 2005
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GHOSTRIDER HF- (whichever one), asked me "...dude did I even read the article...what propagation?"
Paragraphs 8, 9, 10.
Paragraph 11 more details on Tropospheric Ducting.
Paragraph 12 Meteor Scatter, with sub headings, mentioning his favored Meteor showers, specifically:
"Scorpiids June 2nd-17th
Pons Winnecke June 27 - 30th
Cygnids July 14th
Capricornids July 18 - 30th
Perseids July 25 - August 4th
Ursids December 22nd"
I may have read it very quickly, but I did read it.
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by GHOSTBUSTER on June 3, 2005
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NT4XT,
Don't worry about GHOSTRIDER, GOATDUNG, or whatever he calls himself; he probably has no idea what propagation is anyway. He's clearly not a ham.
Who 'ya gonna call?
GHOSTBUSTER
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by K8MHZ on June 8, 2005
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Why do we treat the terms CW and Morse Code like they are the same?
Also, the iCW seems to be a clik thing. For the last 10 years I have just assumed that when using CW to transmit Morse Code, we just assumed that it was going to be FSK.
I also see the use of CW in spoken terms as a clik thing. The term Morse Code only has two syllables, but we 'shorten' it to a term with 4. (3 if you are from Texas).
73 de K8MHZ
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by N8NNE on June 13, 2005
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Nice article,
Thanks for sharing. I would like to get into VHF DX some day myself. I like the shorter jumps and the challenge of making them.
Screw the detractors, their input is of no value.
N8NNE
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RE: VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by AD5FD on June 13, 2005
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i used to do ms on 6 and 2m and es on 6...when i started out on 6 my reason was 'theres more to ham radio than repeaters!'...now i wish for the days of multiple rigs monitoring each band as i look at my icom 706 wow-wee all band all mode radio....yes more options but less oppertunities for each one!
tom ad5fd
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VHF Distant Communication or DX?
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by BG1FPX on June 20, 2005
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In fact, many Chinese hams in the coastal mountainous area can communicate with Japanese and/or Korean hams with VHF DXing.
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