Amateurs with Disabilities
jeff (N3JBH)
on
June 16, 2005
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I have read on here by a previous post that motorized scooters at Hamfests have to go. I ask why is this? Is there no right for the handicapped to visit Hamfests?
I know speaking for myself here that when I was a farmer as well as a millwright and my army service I was very happy and able to move with the greatest of ease. But then came along some rather serious health problems and well there went my ability to walk.
Yes I did get a scooter a rascal 600 with all the goodies on it. Heck it was close to six thousand dollars. Not the kind of price one would pay for a toy I think to just be lazy. A good used golf cart for under a grand is much better tool for that.
So I ask why is it then that because a ham with a disability has to be portrayed on here as a menace when all he or she wants to do is live like any one else at the best of his or her abilities. Folks, you seriously need to consider how the person in one these scooters feels. I for one assure you that I would rather be walking and running and whatever else I was able to do than be sitting in a scooter. And yes I do use my wheel chair more than the scooter, as it is better exercise I agree but it is rather difficult to use a wheel chair with your hands full of ham fest goodies.
So please next time you feel like complaining about hams on scooters, stop and think. -- How would I feel if I was that guy??? Then after you have pondered that go ahead and make your outburst.
Thanks to all that have read this.
Jeff, N3JBH
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KG4RUL on June 16, 2005
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Jeff, As far as I am concerned, you always have the right-of-way in the aisles. But for the grace of God, etc.
Dennis KG4RUL
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Disabilities Indeed!
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by WA6BFH on June 16, 2005
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I’m pretty sure that the references being made were to “hams”, although perhaps better described as porkers, who just don’t WANT to walk -- and would never work on a tower!
Just too many hot dogs, and too much beer! They could walk if they wanted to. They could even wear clean clothes, and throw away that greasy hat with all of those ham radio pins!
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by WA3IRJ on June 16, 2005
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Jeff
I agree with you. Ham radio is for all. And having a daughter with special needs, I do truely understand where you are comming from.Certainly , I would think most people would, as well. Best of luck to you. And use it !
regards
JohnB
73
KB3LXY
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by W3FJ on June 16, 2005
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I think what WA6BFH is the point and is not directed at those who really do suffer from disabilities.
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by W8UDX on June 16, 2005
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I love this site. I visit it many times daily. I have been licensed and active since 1950. I read most of the product reviews. You know, I love it, I hate it, I'll tell you later. However, this thread got me off my chair. Having done tours in Laos, Cambodia, Viet Nam, and having been shot down and shot, as well as going into the North Atlantic in an S-2E because of a cold cat shot and ejecting from a dying AE-6B, I don't walk so good anymore. I can assure you that if you see me coming through the flea market in Dayton in my scooter, I am not faking it. I would only be to happy to trade my scoot for your hips and knees. Want to swap?
Call Sign Grizz
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by N3JBH on June 16, 2005
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W8UDX Having done tours in Laos, Cambodia, Viet Nam, and having been shot down and shot, as well as going into the North Atlantic in an S-2E because of a cold cat shot and ejecting from a dying AE-6B, I don't walk so good anymore. I can assure you that if you see me coming through the flea market in Dayton in my scooter, I am not faking it. I would only be to happy to trade my scoot for your hips and knees. Want to swap?
welcome home dave. allways nice to have read about one of our brothers on here. Thanks for your service thanks for our freedom.some will never understand the cost of freedom.
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by K4IKM on June 16, 2005
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WA6BFH and WA3IRJ, how do you know these "porkers" are just being lazy? How do you know they aren't in severe pain when standing or walking?
I'm a porker (in my case due to french fries, not beer or hot dogs) who does not yet use a scooter or wheelchair at Dayton or elsewhere. But there is definitely one in my future. I've had arthoscopic surgery on my knee which didn't help at all. It hurts constantly, I can walk about 100' and then have to stop and rest. Hoofing around Dayton is really painful for me, another year or two and I won't be able to take it.
Naturally if I lost weight, it would be better. In fact, it's mostly my extra weight that has destroyed my knees and feet. At age 59, it is next to impossible to loose weight. I've tried hard, lost 25 pounds or so, only to gain it back in a year or so.
No doubt there are a rare few who are just lazy and want to ride their scooters. But most of us porkers are like N3BJH, we'd gladly trade scooters for knees, hips and feet that are pain free and for slim waistlines. But it ain't happenin'...
In any case, judgemental jerks like you are not going to keep me from going to Dayton with or without a scooter.
Steve...K4IKM...a real porker...
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by N6AJR on June 16, 2005
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I guess we all have a problem of some type as we get older. I too use a scooter, mines was about $3000 and it lets me do stuff I could not other wise do. I too spent time in nam, 2 tours in korea, for 8 years in the military, ( which destroyed my hearing and my knees) and worked in emergency services on the state owned bridges in northern california, ( red lite and sirens.. ) if you get in a wreck on the san francisco oakland bay bridge, it was me and my guys who pulled in behind you, and were usually first on scene..
so I am sitting in a chair in the office at the bridge, and the chair breaks, with in 3 months I went from 6'1" to 5' 11" and there was the beginning of the end. I lost a couple of disks and damaged the vertabrea. not fixable..
I can barley walk but with my scooter I can go to disneyland ( they treat folks with disibilities super there.) I went to pacificon last year and to visilia this year ( I was the big guy on the bright red scooter terrorizing the halls on saturday)
Not being able to stand for more than a minute or walk farther than about 100 feet causes you to gain weight, ( no excersize) and being heavy gives you diabetes and the side effect of the pile of pills for that is weight gain, so it feeds on it self.
One warning, the folks making the scooters put in a warning that operation of radios near the scooters can cause problems as they use an electronic controlor. I have not had a problem with mine.
Thank goodness for great friends, I have a steppir on the roof tower, , a ma5b on a push up, mast, a gap voyager in the back yard and numerous othere smaller antennas and wires up, and a complete rebuild on the inside of the shack, all this done by ham friends, who give of them selves with a gusto. thanks guys..
So yes, next time you see me or one of us in the scooters crusing around the hamfest, or store or in an amusement park, its just some one who needs a little help getting around. and besides it is a blast driving the scooters too.. so it ain't all bad.
You learn two things as you get older:
You take life as it comes and do the best you can...
Getting old is not for Sissies!!!
So hold the door if you see me comming, and don't be afraid to ask..or just say HI.. I'm just another ham, with a bum back, and being mobile is nice.. any way you can do it. I dress nice, shower daily and wear a new hat at almost every ham function ( depending on who is handing them out., )
now where did I put that fan dipole..
73 tom N6AJR
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by K4JF on June 16, 2005
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I'm in perfect health and proper weight (even do some mountain walking) and I highly resent those who put down my friends who need a little help to get around. Especially when you aim those idiotic comments at those who have a problem because they defended US!
Don't ever criticize those who need some help getting around, rather thank God you don't need the help.... yet. You don't know how it hurts to have to use those things. I'll always remember how my (late) wife was devasted when her advancing cancer forced her to use a wheelchair.
And the worst of those criticizing is the group at "hamsexy" (what a dumb name....).
You on the scooters - give a toot, you're ALWAYS welcome where I'm walking.... I'll step aside and salute.
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by RADIO123US on June 16, 2005
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K4IKM said "At age 59, it is next to impossible to loose weight. I've tried hard, lost 25 pounds or so, only to gain it back in a year or so."
It's not impossible...as one who also has dunlap disease (my belly has "dun lapped" over my belt), I feel it's my fault for the condition...I've managed to lose 10 lbs in the last month by just limiting the quantity of food at eat at each meal...not a BIG change, but it made a difference for me...if a few months, my belt buckle will be visible again....
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by N6AJR on June 16, 2005
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Check out spinlife.com , they have the cheepest scooters that I have found, free shipping and even a payment plan.. get uors now..
tom N6AJR
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by WA6BFH on June 16, 2005
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I'm thinking, that SOME here, have a problem with the english language!
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N4ZOU on June 16, 2005
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When I developed a severe form of Psoriatic Arthritis my doctor prescribed a scooter and the insurance company was more than happy to give me one. I could walk short distances but would give out quickly. Going to a Hamfest or the mall without the scooter was just not an option. This is where the social problems start! Some people think that if you can walk at all you don't need a scooter or anything else to get around, WRONG! Lets put it this way. You can walk and maybe run so why do you need an automobile? So what if it's 20 miles to the Hamfest, just start out the day before the doors open. Ok, I get the scooter and the ill informed think I am just lazy. They treat me that way as well when I am out at the mall or Wally World. About a year and a half later I developed a Brain tumor from the drugs (they treat me as if I have cancer) and the subsequent surgery compounded my physical ability to walk due to a weakening of my right side and so my Doctor consequently prescribed an electric wheel chair. The social problems magically evaporated! Yea I know, it's basically the same thing only more expensive. The psychological difference between the scooter and the electric wheel chair and the ill informed persons reaction can be amazing! When I had the scooter some people would treat me as if I had some kind of mental instead of a physical problem. It's kind of sad that some people act and think the way they do.
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by W1SJC on June 16, 2005
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I am glad that someone has seen this problem with respecting other people with disabilities.
This is not only a problem at hamfest but a problem anywhere there is a crowd. People do not respect one another.
I am 48 and have been in an electric wheelchair for three years now and I have been hit and walked on many times. I have major nerve damage and I am unable to walk at all. May be if these rude people were to spend a day in my shoes, or should I say my chair then maybe they would look differently at there fellow man.
If you are ever in NC you might hear
W1SJC WHEELCHAIR MOBLE
"73"
W1SJC
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by KC5CQD on June 16, 2005
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*****I'm in perfect health and proper weight (even do some mountain walking) and I highly resent those who put down my friends who need a little help to get around. Especially when you aim those idiotic comments at those who have a problem because they defended US!
Don't ever criticize those who need some help getting around, rather thank God you don't need the help.... yet. You don't know how it hurts to have to use those things. I'll always remember how my (late) wife was devasted when her advancing cancer forced her to use a wheelchair.
And the worst of those criticizing is the group at "hamsexy" (what a dumb name....).
You on the scooters - give a toot, you're ALWAYS welcome where I'm walking.... I'll step aside and salute.*****
Well, I defended the U.S. United States Army, 19Delta. Cavalry Scout. Nothing much happened during my tour except for Granada and that wasn't my fault. If I had been sent, I would have responded as a soldier. But.....
I later developed a medical disorder that made me somewhat of an outcast from society and no one seemed to have any problems belittling and ridiculing me! Because my handicap didn't fall under the "wheelchair" status, I was somehow exempt from common decency! I was humiliated publicly on a daily basis for about 20 years!!! No one cared. Through the good graces of modern medical science, my handicap was overcome and I have lived a normal life for about the past seven years. But I've never forgotten what the "good people of our society" doled out to me on a daily basis.
I don't pick on anyone because I know how it feels. Bottom line. But a military service record and physical handicap just doesn't elicit much sympathy from me. I endured it and so everyone else can damned well endure it too.
KC5CQD
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K6AER on June 16, 2005
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Scooters and pedestrian congestion can be a problem at Dayton. With the reduced attendance and the rapid increase of scooters at Dayton it would be nice if they opened op the isles a bit more. Most folks in scooters are very considerate. A few would stop to chat with each other blocking the isles completely. This is a fire hazard and just plan rude. Just as others should be accommodating to those with handicaps, those in scooters should also be aware that when they run it people the scooters can hurt pedestrians very badly.
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by K7PEH on June 16, 2005
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K4IKM said "At age 59, it is next to impossible to loose weight. I've tried hard, lost 25 pounds or so, only to gain it back in a year or so."
At age 57 I have been able to lose some significant weight. I am 5'7" and 18 months ago I weighed 205 lbs naked. Today, I am 163 lbs and I have not yet reached my goal of 158 lbs.
It can be done as long as you do not go on a diet. The key is changing your lifestyle habits forever. I could have lost the weight a lot faster than 18 months but then I probably would have gained it all back.
When I was 205 lbs, I could barely fit into my 36 inch waist levis and I was looking at buying 38 inch waist. I now can fit into my 32 inch waist levis.
When I was 205 lbs, my knees hurt just climbing the stairs up to my office. Now I take the stairs two steps at a time.
When I was 205 lbs, my mountain bike gathered dust in the garage. Now I can do a sprint 8 miles south to a park and back in just a little more than 60 minutes and that includes a steep hill to climb just before I reach home (sure, I get to go down that hill on the start of the sprint).
It can be done.
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by NA4IT on June 16, 2005
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Well, as the old indian say. "Don't judge a man until you walk in his moccasins."
If you walk in mine, you get to hurting pretty bad really quick. No scooter yet, and I do miss a lot of hamfests I would like to go to. Probably a scooter in the future.
That said, I'm proud I have friends like WA4PNI Evan, WA4JTD Lynn, WB4DQH Buck, KG4FZR David, and KF4PVQ John. Without them, the antenna setup I have would not be there!
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by WA6BFH on June 16, 2005
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Kirk, I grow weary of the chase!
Come to me now, and I will be merciful,,,, and quick!
..............................................
Then for more beer! Mmmmmmmmmm beeeeerrrrrr!
Oh darn, I only have 7 left!
(All above said in the gravelly voice of a reptilian {or someone operating via Auroral Scatter})
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by AC7KZ on June 16, 2005
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Like other hamfests, ours doesn't draw a big croud. So we have no problem with scooterized people. Now when I visited Florida last year, that was a different story
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KN4LF on June 16, 2005
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I'm a 100% totallly and permanently disabled veteran but I still walk albeit with a cane. It's not easy but I won't surrender to a scooter.
In my personal experiences and observations many people using scooters are very rude concerning how they drive them around, very wrecklessly bumping into people and running over others feet and with an arrogant entitlement attitude.
Also many people riding scooters are looking to pull social security disability scams, while often times their medical problems are usually related to personal wrecklessness like over eating, drinking and smoking like fiends. It's this behavior demonstrated by many scooter users that draws disdain from the non handicapped populace.
73,
Thomas Giella, KN4LF
Plant City, FL
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by W7DJM on June 16, 2005
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I think a lot of this was perpetrated by the morons over at "hamsexy.com"
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N0TONE on June 16, 2005
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I do have sympathies with those with disabilities. Due to plain old age, I go to 'fests with a wheelchair. Fragile bones. I got knocked down at a 'fest about five years ago, and fractured a femur, taking close to a year to heal. I'm at that age where I could get knocked over, break a hip, and never walk again.
But no scooter for me. Hamfests are a social event. Someone's always willing to push me or help me and scooters are just too heavy to be manhandling into/out of vehicles, even with someone else's help.
K4IKM is is difficult, but not impossible to lose weight at older ages. I did it, and so can you. You admitted that your leg pain and surgeries are at least primarily due to weight, and you also said "we'd gladly trade scooters for knees, hips and feet that are pain free"
But it's not the scooter you have to trade in - it's the french fries. Trade those in, and you'll get those knees, hips and feet. And french fries are a whole lot cheaper than a scooter. Deal of the century.
I lost 75 pounds, took six years doing it because I gained some back several times. I can now walk for some hours without pain, and I do have one artificial knee. I run to keep the rest of the leg OK (not as fast as when I was younger!), and yes it hurts to run. But if I tolerate that pain for 10 minutes a day, I can then walk for 2-4 hours a day without pain. If I stop running, then within a few months, I can't walk for more than 10-20 minutes without pain.
It takes work to learn CW, or theory. It takes work to build a Yagi. It takes work to put that tower up, or to build the coaxial cables for our stations. It also takes work to keep ourselves in good physical shape - why can't we all learn that?
Not to discriminate against those who, through no fault of their own, genuinely are disabled. And of course I owe a deep debt to those who served our military. I never saw active duty, and only pushed papers.
AM
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6AJR on June 16, 2005
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I use my scooter to let me live my life with out so much pain, I really don't care if you like it or not, I don't care if you think I am pulling a scam to fool SSI or some comp scam, you are spouting glistening superlatives of bovine fecal defication, sir.
I can go to the mall, I can go to the home store, I can go to disneyland, I can go to pacificon, I can do what I want. If you want to hobble around on a cane and it hurts, thats your choice and perhaps your pride is getting in the way. My scooter allows me to live by my self, and do what I choose. I can go anywhere and do any thing with out having to worry about the pain.
Would you prefer I did what I used to do and drag a folding chair around so when I went to a hamfest I could walk a hundred feet then sit on my chair and wait for the pain to go away, then walk another hundred feet, dragging the chair and sit again. I think not.
yea, I am big, and you probably don't want to talk to me because I am on a scooter, but I don't run over folks, and I am not stuck in the house. I met the crew from adaman and nicobar islands at visilia last month and went to the M2 open house a couple months ago, and pacificon last fall. I do the mall, and groceries and all the day to day stuff, just me and my scooter.
I have a pickup, 2 cars, a harley and a scooter, and you ain't telling me to not use any of them. I do all the things any one else does, some times in a little different manner, but I live life as good as I can, because it beats the alternative..
so Sir, use the cane if you choose, but perhaps try a scooter just once, and see what you think.. they are also fun to drive, just don't limit your self because of some silly notion that scooters are not for "good " people..
gud dx and 73
tom N6AJR
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KG8JF on June 17, 2005
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Same goes for handicapped parking spots. I am sure that a lot of us are envious of folks who can park right up front at all the stores, etc, etc. I am sure that they would gladly give up that privelege for the ability to walk normally. It's the ones who don't really need it that gripes me
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KI4KBN on June 17, 2005
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I use a power chair. I have been stuck in this chair for over 15 years. I did not ask to not be able to walk. I went to Vietnam 2 times (over 2 years) so you and I could go where and when we want to go. I have Agent Orange (Nerve disease) (from Vietnam) and Muscular Dystrophy (Muscle disease). So I go where I want to go in my power chair and if anyone doesn’t like it, I say stick it in your ear. I paid the $8,000.00 for my chair and I pay my way. So you and anybody else have NO right to say where I can and cannot go. If it is open to the public then it must be accessible to others and me with a disability. They are times when we (the handicap) could demand more of a place to provide us a way to get into and out of things better, but we don’t. I got my amateur license the legal way and I use my license in a legal way. I will go where I want; I will be polite as anyone else. If you are rude to me, by not moving out of my lane, prepare to get run over. I feel I have more rights than most people and I will use them as I see fit. So do as I do and enjoy life and quit gripping about things you have NO control over.
KI4KBN
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by AA4PB on June 17, 2005
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I've attended a lot of hamfests including Dayton and I've never found scooters to be any kind of a problem. I'm quite happy to give them a little space to move about.
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N8BOA on June 17, 2005
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Someday I maybe in a cart. You can run me over anytime you want I'll understand.
Sean
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K1CJS on June 17, 2005
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I really don't think the author has directed this at anyone who actually needs a scooter to get around, although a very few of those could use a healthy dose of consideration for other people. I believe it is directed at those who are really too lazy to get off their butt and exercise their flab away, and think they hurt because their condition is chronic. Newsflash--Except in a very few circumstances being fat is easily cureable.
And please, if you really need that scooter, be a little considerate of others and don't block the aisle. Comments like "you can wait till I'm through" only show you're inconsiderate--and your body isn't the only thing that is ill.
Go to a store and you may see someone who should be walking riding on one of the store scooters--and they hop off the thing and bend down or stretch up to get something, then hop back on, go down the aisle and do the whole thing over again. And they're not moving slowly, either--they're moving just as easily as anyone else WHO IS WALKING.
I don't begrudge people who need the scooter the use of one--but I do for those who don't need it and just use it because they're too lazy to exercise. Some studies today say we've become a nation of lazy overweight slobs. I can certainly see why that is said to be the truth.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by VE3ECMW2 on June 17, 2005
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"Scooters and pedestrian congestion can be a problem at Dayton. With the reduced attendance and the rapid increase of scooters at Dayton it would be nice if they opened op the isles a bit more. Most folks in scooters are very considerate. A few would stop to chat with each other blocking the isles completely. This is a fire hazard and just plan rude. Just as others should be accommodating to those with handicaps, those in scooters should also be aware that when they run it people the scooters can hurt pedestrians very badly."
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*Most* folks are considerate. It's the folks in scooters who think that because they are in a scooter that they're entitled to drive through a crowd at full speed, horn blasting, yelling at people because they won't "get out of the way".
I see it at hamfests, I see it on the street. It is not systemic to hams.
It's a few bad apples that have made the stigma stick.
I suggest, if you REALLY want to do something (instead of bitching and moaning online), that our "considerate" scooter-bound folk make a point of letting those on scooters that are "less considerate" of others around them know that their behavior is INAPPROPRIATE.
We all know that you shouldn't paint everyone with the same brush; but welcome to reality.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by VE3ECMW2 on June 17, 2005
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"Scooters and pedestrian congestion can be a problem at Dayton. With the reduced attendance and the rapid increase of scooters at Dayton it would be nice if they opened op the isles a bit more. Most folks in scooters are very considerate. A few would stop to chat with each other blocking the isles completely. This is a fire hazard and just plan rude. Just as others should be accommodating to those with handicaps, those in scooters should also be aware that when they run it people the scooters can hurt pedestrians very badly."
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*Most* folks are considerate. It's the folks in scooters who think that because they are in a scooter that they're entitled to drive through a crowd at full speed, horn blasting, yelling at people because they won't "get out of the way".
I see it at hamfests, I see it on the street. It is not systemic to hams.
It's a few bad apples that have made the stigma stick.
I suggest, if you REALLY want to do something (instead of bitching and moaning online), that our "considerate" scooter-bound folk make a point of letting those on scooters that are "less considerate" of others around them know that their behavior is INAPPROPRIATE.
We all know that you shouldn't paint everyone with the same brush; but welcome to reality.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by VE3ECMW2 on June 17, 2005
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"Scooters and pedestrian congestion can be a problem at Dayton. With the reduced attendance and the rapid increase of scooters at Dayton it would be nice if they opened op the isles a bit more. Most folks in scooters are very considerate. A few would stop to chat with each other blocking the isles completely. This is a fire hazard and just plan rude. Just as others should be accommodating to those with handicaps, those in scooters should also be aware that when they run it people the scooters can hurt pedestrians very badly."
-------------------------------------
*Most* folks are considerate. It's the folks in scooters who think that because they are in a scooter that they're entitled to drive through a crowd at full speed, horn blasting, yelling at people because they won't "get out of the way".
I see it at hamfests, I see it on the street. It is not systemic to hams.
It's a few bad apples that have made the stigma stick.
I suggest, if you REALLY want to do something (instead of bitching and moaning online), that our "considerate" scooter-bound folk make a point of letting those on scooters that are "less considerate" of others around them know that their behavior is INAPPROPRIATE.
We all know that you shouldn't paint everyone with the same brush; but welcome to reality.
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by WB2WIK on June 17, 2005
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I have no problem with scooters for the disabled at hamfests or anywhere else.
When I used to sell stuff at ham swap meets years ago, the scooter customers were often the best customers.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by NN8Y on June 17, 2005
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I had more problems with non-handicapped people at Dayton than those on scooters. If there's a funnel area, that's where a group seems to want to form and stand around. Or, when you're milling along with a line or crowd, and one person sees something, instead of "pulling over" they just stop and hold up the rest. (Scooters exempted, the rest of us can go around you.) Same thing happens in airports except you're going a lot faster!
I'm sure the guy that made the original comment just wasn't thinking, and surely wasn't considering what it would be like.
Anyone in the Dayton area that NEEDS help with an antenna or whatever, give me a call.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by WA6BFH on June 17, 2005
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NN8Y, If you mean me, and the post I made, I was THINKING!
SOME here read whatever into my words that was pushing either their psychosis, or neurosis.
I’m guessing that my words ‘pushed the button’ of a few folks that are just victocrats! They MIGHT also be amongst a certain elite group of ham’s who show up at public ham meetings wearing dirty or completely inappropriate clothing, thusly displaying their lack of dignity, and thereby denigrating those that have put such a meeting together. They MAY also be amongst a group that finds bathing to be just too much trouble. They also might NOT!
Also, I never said anything to denigrate anyone in the military, or who has done military service!
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by W9JOL on June 17, 2005
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W7DJM:
" I think a lot of this was perpetrated by the morons over at "hamsexy.com""
And I think you are completely wrong. People have been talking about scooters long before Hamsexy.com came along. Guess what? HS could go offline tomorrow, and people will still talk about them.
But, I guess it is easier to just blame one place, right? I guess if it works for forum trolls...
I support eHam, ARRL, DAV and lots of various organizations and charities, and I'm a member of the Hamsexy Nation.
I didn't realize until today that I was a moron. Thanks, W7DJM, for pointing that out to me.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by W5UX on June 17, 2005
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Are the scooters in our way? or maybe we are in their way. About the overweight problem. Get a treadmill and while you are on there listen to taped morse code and kill two birds with one stone. Don't forget the diet.
de Bob
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K7VO on June 17, 2005
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I personally support providing as much access as possible to people with physical disabilities at any event. This includes hamfests. I don't think anyone here can judge whether a person we don't personally know needs a scooter or not. I suspect that most who ride scooters really need them.
The issue which some have raised about scooters is the issue of inconsiderate people who ride some of them. I, too, was nearly run over from behind at Dayton. No warning, no "excuse me", no horn, nothing. If a friend hand't pushed me out of the way... That is just plain rude. I don't object to scooters. I object to rudeness in all forms.
Oh, and yes, there is an incredible amount of rudeness and lack of consideration in way too many posts on eHam.
73,
Caity
K7VO/8
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K0RGR on June 17, 2005
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Well, let's see, what shall we pick on today? Not many smokers around anymore, so now we'll go pick on the fattys and the lame. Next, we'll be accusing the blind of hitting people with their canes, and who knows where those seeing eye dogs do their business?
Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away, hams got along with each other. We were much more interested in what we had in common with each other than we were in how different we were from each other.
Let's stop talking about this crap and start talking about ham radio.
How do you ID your 802.11 network under part 97?
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by W7DJM on June 17, 2005
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A very special, personal note to W9JOL:
======================================================= W9JOL said:
"" didn't realize until today that I was a moron. Thanks, W7DJM, for pointing that out to me.""
======================================================
I didn't say one word about whether you are or are not a moron. However, rest assured, if you are one of the people making fun of those who feel the need to use assistance of some kind to achieve mobility,
YOU were one of the ones I'm referring to.
As a person who is starting to get older, who has suffered severe injury to my (partially steel) leg due to a very serious crash, and as a person who is beginning to show the effects of inherited arthritic problems, I can certainly side with folks who can't waltz around on their own. There are many factors, and the pictures making fun of those BY THE MORONS OVER AT hamsexy.com, is something I don't find one Goddam bit funny
To be absolutely certain you understand, I'm not overweight, and my former life including climbing ladders, crawling around in attics and underbuild crawl spaces, as well as climbing quite a few communications towers.
I can no longer do any of that.
That clear enough for you?
Should I repeat it?
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K4JF on June 17, 2005
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<A few would stop to chat with each other blocking the isles completely. This is a fire hazard and just plan rude.>
That's rude and inconsiderate on foot, too. Scooters have nothing to do with it and are definitely in the minority of incidents.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N4LI on June 17, 2005
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One's feelings about hams on scooters are not relevant. If a ham -- or non-ham -- needs such a device to get around, allowing them to do so in a venue such as a hamfest isn't just considerate, IT'S THE LAW.
People with mobility problems are exactly what was envisioned by the Americans With Disabilities Act. Sure, the ADA has been contorted and stretched by some to its breaking point, making it apply to diabilities that aren't disabling at all, but this is not one of those cases.
Accommodate these folks. One day, you or I may be needing accommodation, too.
Peter, N4LI
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by WA4DOU on June 17, 2005
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The most tragic of all disabilities is the one between the ears.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N3JBH on June 17, 2005
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Hello folks I am the originating author of this article.
And it makes me proud to see the greater percentage here our supportive of Americans with disabilities.
However I wish to make it clear that some reference a web site known as ham sexy.
Personally I never seen this website and really have no idea what it pertains too.
But I assure you all my article here does not in any manner or form pertain to or make reference from any thing that I perceived from that sight.
I was inclined to write this do to the reactions of a few wise Asses I met both on here and in my personal quest at ham fest. Steve wb2wik made a comment that he didn’t mind scooter-riding hams as they made good customers for him. Well Steve thank you many disabled hams take the hobby of ham radio probably more serious then other’s as it is an interactive hobby we can do and enjoy doing. And really appreciate fair and honest dealings of fellow hams like you.
I often find the stereotypical world we live in quite funny at times. As I recall I cw contact just last week on 6 meters was talking (if you will) to a ham in Alabama we was running some where around 25 words per minute cw he looked me up on his computer and said you’re a no-code. No I am a tech and do lots a code I just like 6 meters and up.
I guess the moral of the story here is don’t label every one you meet or see with a one size fits all label. There are many great hams out there disabled. That just because their limbs maynot work, as yours don’t mean there hearts and souls don’t. So be nice to each other and enjoy the hobby that brings us all together thanks jeff/n3jbh
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KB1EVZ on June 17, 2005
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This whole damn thread makes me embarrassed to be a ham. I'm only 17, and I became disinterested in ham radio soon after I got my license because it so often manifested itself as a bunch of grumpy people arguing.
The answer here is simple:
1. If you are not disabled, and can walk, then walk, and be polite to those on scooters who have to pass you.
2. If you are disabled and use a scooter, drive it carefully, and be considerate.
All it takes is being kind, polite, and sensible. It's wrong to be annoyed at anyone who uses a scooter or something similar to get around, but it's also wrong to have one and think that, because you are disabled, you aren't required to treat others with decency.
I'm purposefully not singling anyone out from this thread because I don't want to offend, but this is truly embarrassing... Making physical threats against others--especially when they are using a callsign linked to an address and you are using merely a pseudonym--is not just completely wrong, it's illegal.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KB1EVZ on June 17, 2005
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>K0RGR said:
>How do you ID your 802.11 network under part 97?
There's a "nickname" field you can program on your wireless card. Under Windows it probably just uses your hostname... under Linux you can set it with `iwconfig ethX nick "K0RGR"`. That would seem to be appropriate, or if you run the whole network just use your call as the ESSID.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by NN8Y on June 17, 2005
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<NN8Y, If you mean me, and the post I made, I was THINKING!>
I don't know if it was you, I didn't make a note of who wrote it, and I really don't give a rat's rump who it was.
BUT,
IF it WAS you who wrote, a few weeks ago, in a post about Hamvention, something along the lines of "those scooters have got to go",
And, IF you were considering what you were saying at the time and not just making a thoughtless comment,
THEN, I would say you are an extremely selfish person to suggest totally banning hams who are limited in the activities they can participate in, ham radio being one of the fun things they can still do, from coming to Hamvention because of a minor inconvenience to yourself. That would really be low, like earthworm dung low.
If that was not you, then my apologies!
73
Rob
NN8Y
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6AJR on June 17, 2005
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wow, I like your " like earthworm dung low. " much better than my bovine fecal defication.. good job..
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by WY3X on June 17, 2005
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Personally, I haven't a bad thing to say about those with disabilities. I worked in the fire service for 20 years. I know all too well that one poor choice on my part could land me in their shoes!!! I've never once met a disabled person who wound up that way by choice.
-KR4WM
(Disabled because of random temporary blindness due to a chronic illness.)
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KG4YJR on June 17, 2005
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Hamsexy needs to send most of you guys a royalty check for letting everyone who has never even heard of Hamsexy know about it by mentioning them over and over, no doubt sending more traffic to their website.
To see what everyone blames this article on, see their Dayton photo album at:
http://www.hamsexy.com/cms/?cat=10
...and what was up with the pretty Icom girls in their PJ's?
73
Dave
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K4IQT on June 17, 2005
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It appears that a couple of new amenities need to be added at Dayton:
1. A boxing ring, maybe a Thunderdome, for (those very few) hams wanting to kick the crap out of other hams who disagree with them, and ....
2. A demolition derby area for those (very few individuals) on scooters who don't belong on them, and ....
3. A penalty box for those hams who hate those pesky scooter drivers "forever in their way", and ....
4. The SAME penalty box for those scooter drivers who hate those "pesky pedestrians in their way".
The rest of us can then stroll or ride about the flea market in peace, and have constructive discussions in the forum without all this anger and overheated rhetoric flying about.....
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by AB5XZ on June 17, 2005
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I remember W5DQQ, Icky, now SK, who was in a wheelchair all his adult life - due to an auto accident. Nobody would ever give Icky a hard time for using a scooter at a hamfest. He was a super ham.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by X-WB1AUW on June 17, 2005
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" I have read on here by a previous post that motorized scooters at Hamfests have to go. I ask why is this?"
For the same reason there are jammers.
Testing doesn't screen out sociopaths.
73
Bob
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by WA3IRJ on June 17, 2005
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Hello all...
Like I said this hobby does not have bounds regarding physicaly impaired. But it should have bounds for some that are mantally..namely narrow-minds !
I have been a ham off and on, since 1967. I admit to being a re-tread. I was a novice, a tech...and general class. I now have a hard time dealing with 10-12 wpm...does that make me a "no class"
Enjoy the hobby. Life can be too short, at any speed...code or otherwise
73
KB3LXY
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KX8N on June 17, 2005
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"I've never once met a disabled person who wound up that way by choice. "
No kidding... my father worked 60+ hours per week for 30 years. He ended up with a heart transplant and other than going to church and the hospital, he was all but house-bound for 7 years. He could barely go into a store because he didn't want to have to use a wheelchair, but he couldn't walk very far without his legs giving out due to weakness.
Last year we went to Dayton. We went at the last minute, because it was my birthday and he wanted us to go up there together. It was too late to get disabled parking or anything like that. By the time we walked from the field to the building, he was too tired to do anything. We spent about 2 hours there.
He thought he would be healthy forever. When he was well, he didn't think much about the disabled. Not until he became one himself.
He even got his license because he wanted to be involved in something I was involved in.
Larry Crusan, KC8YZS, became a SK March 31, 2005, at age 52.
Dave
KX8N
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6AJR on June 17, 2005
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This is the perfect example, in a power chair or a scooter, he could have cruised from the parking lot, to the hamvention and spend the day, and when you were worn out he will still be good to go. I am sorry to hear of his passing, but glad you could share some time. My own Dad is now 83 ( and a half..) and is totally deaf, but I email him often as we can visit in email quite easily. You have to use what is available to make life as good as you can.
I can walk but not very far, and I can only stand for about 2 minutes.. and with the scooter, I can do the day at the hamfest, do 5 days at disneyland and 6 hours during christmas at the mall shopping, the only problem I have with the scooter is the basket in front is to small to carry a bunch of stuff I bought.
either you can take control of your life or let pain control you. I really don't give a %$#@ what anybody says about me and my scooter. I am curteous, drive it carefully, and don't run over any body.. If some one thinks I am fat and lazy, let him, I am an adult and make my own decisions. SO sooner or later we all get old, and you can sit at home and veg, or find a way to go do something.. I choose to do..
enjoy the time you had together, and remember it when it comes to your kids..
tom N6AJR
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by CATO on June 17, 2005
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KI4KBN's post illustrates certain beliefs that the more disagreeable members of the scooter community share:
He considers "not moving out of [his] lane" to be rude behavior that warrants being run over - even though demanding other people move for you is considered rude among walkers.
He feels he has more rights than most people and will use them as he sees fit - which apparently includes the right to disregard courtesy towards others.
He thinks other people have no right to say when and where he can not go - but you can not be in his lane.
Anyone - ["handi-capable"] or not - who believes they have more rights than others and/or that other people should make way for them or be assaulted is an [anal sphincter]. People in scooters and chairs may have "special needs," but that doesn't give them card blanc when they're on wheels. If there are people in the aisle they want to go down, they should wait or move in a courteous manner. That usually means moving along the more unoccupied side (with a sincere "pardon me") and not right down the center which pushes people against the displays. Then again, the [dook chutes] in scooters who don't do that stuff were probably [chocolate starfish] who didn't do it long before a scooter/powerchair/etc. entered into the picture.
[Edited for the chronically hypersensitive!]
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K7PEH on June 17, 2005
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Rules of engagement...
(1) When someone on a scooter appears out of no where and looks like they will run you down --- step aside and make room.
(2) When someone is rude to you without any provocation, smile and be kind to them.
(3) If someone speaks ill of you in voice or written word, speak kindly in response.
Love your enemies and by doing this you will show love to its fullest.
If we all acted the way that Jesus Christ taught, wouldn't we be better off. I do not know why someone is in a scooter but I can't imagine for the life of me of ever complaining that he is in the scooter.
Some hams are overweight and because of this they need help. Do we scourge them because of their lack of discipline on eating or exercize or do we treat them as a fellow human being whom God loves as much as us.
I used to think that Love was the feeling you got when you liked someone as much as Physics but I have learned that Love is the feeling you get when you consider your neighbor as yourself.
phil
K7PEH
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by KD5DFM on June 17, 2005
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I'd like to know how you determine who is disabled and who is just a poker slacker bum ;-) . you cant see some disability's and only a doctor and determine if someone is disabled . you never know just how you look threw other peoples eyes . don't judge lest you be judge . i think acceptance of others brings peace to all and maybe to you also john kd5dfm
p.s.s obesity is a disability also .
wa6bfh said : I’m pretty sure that the references being made were to “hams”, although perhaps better described as porkers, who just don’t WANT to walk -- and would never work on a tower!
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KX8N on June 17, 2005
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"Some hams are overweight and because of this they need help."
This also brings another point that alot of people don't seem to think of: Perhaps the person isn't in the wheelchair (or scooter) because he is "fat", but the person is "fat" because they have to be in a wheelchair and CAN'T get up and exercise. If someone lost the use of their legs, and can't walk, how much excercise could you expect them to get up and do to keep their weight down?
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KD5DFM on June 17, 2005
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Thomas , one thing ive learned in life . a disability can hit anyone at anytime anywhere . you never know if you'll be next . when if if you are , ( and i prey you never are cause i would want my worst enemy to be that , ) you'll learn just what the other side of life is . nobody fakes disability form social security , its too hard , now working mans comp sure thats easy to get . dont judge others till you been there . and thank god you or your family haven't been there .
Also many people riding scooters are looking to pull social security disability scams, while often times their medical problems are usually related to personal wrecklessness like over eating, drinking and smoking like fiends. It's this behavior demonstrated by many scooter users that draws disdain from the non handicapped populace.
73,
Thomas Giella, KN4LF
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KC8VWM on June 17, 2005
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Is this really an article of thought provoking discussion and serious thought?
So what! There are hams that ride scooters! Who cares!
God I never saw so much detailed analysis, study and drawn conclusions conducted about how, when and why a disabled person is riding around on a scooter.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KD5DFM on June 17, 2005
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again who made you a doctor . many disability's you cant see at all . dose someone have to a cross of Joe cocker and Jerry's kids to be disabled to you ???? first we have the radio police now the disability police good gracious , i wish god would strike you all down for 6 months temporarily and lets see how you live and survive . oh don't knock it till your try it friend . and i think you ought to . john kd5dfm
Same goes for handicapped parking spots. I am sure that a lot of us are envious of folks who can park right up front at all the stores, etc, etc. I am sure that they would gladly give up that privelege for the ability to walk normally. It's the ones who don't really need it that gripes me
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6AJR on June 17, 2005
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My ex wife had a breathing disibility, and has problems with alcohol fumes, car exhaust, perfume vapors and a lot of other item, which would put her into anaphalctic shock, and she actually died from it once and recovered.
But she was about 5' 6" and about 135 pounds, and looked just fine. She had a blue disibility placard and when she parked up front and got out of the car, people actually asked her why she was parking in the disibility parking, because she did not LOOK disabled..
and its true, with my disibilities I can't excersize, and really am pretty much spending most of my time sitting. so I can't do a heck of a lot, but I am fine on the air, and am just as able as you on the mic. so yea, a lot of big guys are hams as its a good hobby for some one with disibilities, and those who are more able, play golf, or skate board or sky dive. .I can't but I do a great job on the radio.
so to summerize, a ham with a disibility is a nothing more than a ham, a disibility is an inconvience that means we have to throw $ at it to get back to were we can function at a good level. so are a lot of disabled hams because the activity suits a sedentary style, and not the other way around.
tom N6AJR
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KC8VWM on June 17, 2005
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"I am sure that a lot of us are envious of folks who can park right up front at all the stores, etc, etc."
Well that's because too many of use are focused about what the "other guy" might be getting over and beyond what we might be getting in life. We might be missing out or something.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KD5DFM on June 17, 2005
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right on peter , except your point about applying to disability's that rant debilitating at all , any disability can be debilitating , it depends on the severity ;-) . the ADA doesn't work cause our government wont enforce it and your right ive seen it sooner or later we all need accommodation ;-) either threw old age or injury so fellas get ready for when it your turn ;-)
>Americans With Disabilities Act. Sure, the ADA has >been contorted and stretched by some to its breaking >point, making it apply to diabilities that aren't >disabling at all, but this is not one of those cases.
>Accommodate these folks. One day, you or I may be >needing accommodation, too.
>Peter, N4LI
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by AI4IT on June 17, 2005
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I'm kind of wondering what the point of discussing this is anyway. Will it change the scooter users using the scooters? Will it change the half-wits that can't relate to disabilities? I don't think so either.
Get over it and press on.
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by KI4KBN on June 18, 2005
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QUOTE - “He considers "not moving out of [his] lane" to be rude behavior that warrants being run over - even though demanding other people move for you is considered rude among walkers”
Answer – I am talking about the rude people that walk 3 abreast and expect me to stop/move over so they can get around me.
QUOTE - “He feels he has more rights than most people and will use them as he sees fit - which apparently includes the right to disregard courtesy towards others.”
Answer – I feel I have more rights than most people because I fought for this country for over 20 years.
QUOTE - “He thinks other people have no right to say when and where he can not go - but you can not be in his lane.”
Answer – I have a right to go any place that is open to the public. It is the Law, IAW AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT of 1990, Public Law 101-336. Lane was answered above.
In 15 years I have never run over or hit anyone. I move or stop so people can get by me. I enjoy life and this hobby. I think too much has been said about scooters and handicap people. Look at it this way, scooters/wheelchairs are a way of our lives.
George
KI4KBN
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by NN8Y on June 18, 2005
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<wow, I like your " like earthworm dung low. " much better than my bovine fecal defication.. good job.>
Thanks. I thought "rat's rump" was pretty good, too.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by RADIO123US on June 18, 2005
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KI4KBN said "I feel I have more rights than most people because I fought for this country for over 20 years."
I salute you for serving our country, but I respectfully disagree that you have "more" rights than anyone else....if a person is a citizens of the United States, then he/she is EQUAL to any other citizen of this country....didn't Thomas Jefferson say something about that? If I meet you, you will be treated with the same respect that I treat anyone else I meet, and I would hope I would receive the same respect from you....
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KD2E on June 18, 2005
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This morning while walking in to the 7-11 to get a cup of coffee, I held the door open for an elderly woman. She looked straight ahead, and seemed to assume it was my job...or the door was just holding itself open. I just said a loud "Your Welcome", with no response.
I later saw her chatting with the clerk, so I know she's "two-way". At Dayton this year, near the Icom display, I was chatting with the op of the 7800 when I felt my left foot being smashed. I spun my head to see the driver of a scooter's head wobbling as the wheel dropped back to the ground off my foot. I prepared in my head a funny comment about my feet being too big, or I've got spares! but....nothing! not even a look. So, similar to the women in the 7-11, I just blurted out a loud "excuse-me"
Almost all the replies to this post are from 'drivers' of scooters and wheelchairs. The issue is not access to the same events as walkers, or if your weight is to blame...(or just time that waits for no one!) The issue is just common courtesy! It pisses the hell out of me when people in the grocery store leave there shopping carts in the middle of the isle to casually read labels. So, it also pisses me off when someone drives over my foot with a scooter as if I'm just in the way.
That is the issue as I see it.
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by K1CJS on June 18, 2005
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"p.s.s obesity is a disability also ."
In some cases, yes. In others, it is just an excuse. As far as consideration, I think most of us are considerate--or at least try to be, even when we meet up with someone who isn't whether they are disabled or not.
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by K1CJS on June 18, 2005
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"I'm kind of wondering what the point of discussing this is anyway. Will it change the scooter users using the scooters? Will it change the half-wits that can't relate to disabilities? I don't think so either."
If it changes the mindset of one of those who are abusing the system, or the negative attitude of one who has need of the assistance of a scooter or a wheelchair, I think it is worth it.
I don't begrudge the people who need those things to better their lives. I say: Good for them that they're able to get out and do things!
My dad is 84, has been through a serious car wreck, in the hospital three months afterwards and has one of those blue handicapped placards for when he goes out. Once in a while he uses it, but at other times his attitude is this: I'll walk, someone else may need that parking space more than I do.
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by WA6BFH on June 18, 2005
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<Answer – I have a right to go any place that is open to the public. It is the Law, IAW AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT of 1990, Public Law 101-336. Lane was answered above. >
........................................
I think that this law should be repealed, and that it never should have been enacted! It’s not that I have anything against the disabled, it is just that this is yet another law that has been enacted, ‘a hammer over our heads’ telling us how to behave ‘in the social order of things.’
We should show courtesy to the disabled, and it is easy enough for those of us that are not thusly injured to GET OUT OF THE WAY. To be told ‘by the state’ that we have to do this though, under penalty of law, is un-American!
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by W6EZ on June 18, 2005
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I wouldn't worry about it.
Someone is always going complain about anything you do.
If it's not your scooter it will be the kind of car you drive or the way you cut your lawn.
As long as your're not hurting anyone, just forget it and go on with your life.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6AJR on June 18, 2005
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The ADA is more than telling you to get out of the way. it is also the authority for requireing wheelchair friendly ramps on new construction, and mandated parking spots, and accessible restrooms. How many business do you think would do these things with out the ADA in place.
a lot of stuff is moving into main stream building, like faucets with levers on them rather than knobs so you can move them with a closed fist. door ways wide enought to pass a wheelchair through. this approach is called universal access building style, so when you turn 75 you don't have to sell your house or remodel it because you don't get around so well any more.
All this comes from the ADA to make life a little better fo everyone, not just those with accessibility options.
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by CATO on June 18, 2005
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From KI4KBN:
>>>I am talking about the rude people that walk 3 abreast and expect me to stop/move over so they can get around me.<<<
If that's the case, then it might have been a good idea to address who you were talking about by mentioning the "walk 3 abreast" people. Still, if space is limited, moving a little to the side or stopping briefly would generally be the courteous thing to do - just like it is for people on foot.
>>>I feel I have more rights than most people because I fought for this country for over 20 years.<<<
You don't have any more rights than the rest of America. Serving and sacrificing for your country is a personal honor - not a means to get "more rights" or a rhetorical weapon to silence those who may be your critics.
>>>I have a right to go any place that is open to the public. It is the Law, IAW AMERICANS WITH DISABILITIES ACT of 1990, Public Law 101-336. Lane was answered above.<<<
I wasn't denying the fact that you have the right of access - I was simply pointing out your disgustingly flagrant double standard. The law doesn't generally give you the right to force others to move simply because you decided to drive where they are standing. People standing on an entrance ramp? Yes. People standing in front of a booth/table (a la KD2E)? No.
Your text implied that you had a "you can't be anywhere I want to be in the future" belief which allowed you to arbitrarily define where "your lane" was and to make others vacate the space on your whim. If you were talking about entrance ramps when you wrote "my lane", fine. I could agree with that.
And no, (before anybody gets the wild idea in his head) this isn't a disability thing for me. Like KD2E, the foot-mobile people who leave their carts in the middle of the supermarket aisle annoy me too. If it's rude on foot, it's probably rude on a scooter/powerchair/etc. - and vice-versa.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N7BUI on June 18, 2005
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KB1EVZ said "This whole damn thread makes me embarrassed to be a ham. I'm only 17, and I became disinterested in ham radio soon after I got my license because it so often manifested itself as a bunch of grumpy people arguing."
Its pretty sad when we are chasing away our young persons with crap like this thread. Eham this is about the lamest "article" that has been posted in quite a while. Perhaps if the moderator would take a GOOD look at each submission and it smacks of stereotypes then it probably doesn't need to be posted.
One comment though...Hamfest organizers, please allow for the widest possible aisles in the buildings that are rented. Of the ones I've attended the Mike and Key club hamfest in Puyallup Washington is about the best with LOTS of room for scooters, the worst is probably the Seaside Oregon hamfest due to its very narrow aisles and poor second floor access.
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KG4YJR on June 18, 2005
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My cat once had a urinary tract infection that cost us about $600 to get rid of and now we have to buy him special cat food that's more expensive. He refuses to move out of a chair that I may wish to sit in sometimes and demands to be let out or fed whenever he wants regardless of the time of day or night without any thoughtfulness, courtesy or considerateness whatsoever. He's also rude to the other two cats we have whenever they walk by him or are in his way. They get hissed and swatted at.
73
Dave
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KC8ZJD on June 18, 2005
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Quote KI4KBN:
"I feel I have more rights than most people and I will use them as I see fit."
WOW.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K1CJS on June 18, 2005
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"Someone is always going complain about anything you do. If it's not your scooter it will be the kind of car you drive or the way you cut your lawn. As long as your're not hurting anyone, just forget it and go on with your life."
Good advise, and doable. Until somebody is willing to go get a court order to make you comply. Don't laugh--its been done.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6AJR on June 18, 2005
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remember, dogs have owners, cats have STAFF..
Posted By KG4YJR
My cat once had a urinary tract infection that cost us about $600 to get rid of and now we have to buy him special cat food that's more expensive. He refuses to move out of a chair that I may wish to sit in sometimes and demands to be let out or fed whenever he wants regardless of the time of day or night without any thoughtfulness, courtesy or considerateness whatsoever. He's also rude to the other two cats we have whenever they walk by him or are in his way. They get hissed and swatted at.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K1CJS on June 18, 2005
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"My cat once had a urinary tract infection......."
Exactly the point some are trying to make here. Anybody here ever hear the saying "If you have a dog, to them you are a companion and a friend while if you have a cat, to them you are staff and servant."?
The attitude of a cat is: the heck with whatever else is going on, I'm going to do what I want.
How many handicapped people have just that attitude? Not very many, but those that do are the ones that stand out and give the rest a bad name.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6AJR on June 18, 2005
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And to the 17 year old, I to remember when I was 17, and could run 10 miles, and swim 50 laps and was able to do anything I wanted, but after 2 tours in Korea ( do you even remember when they took the Pueblo, a navy Elint ship in 1968) and a tour in Viet nam ( 1969-70) and 28 years in emergency service for the state of california, ( red lites and sirens) and several other jobs, I now can barely walk and only stand for a couple minutes. I went from 6'1 " to 5'11" in a matter of 3 months.
I remember at 17 I was invinceable, and could do anything, but my friend, look back at age 50 and see how well you you have fared. are you still healthy and maintaining your current weight, have you saved any ones life, have you done anything to change the world, have you made a positive impact with your life.
Yea at 17 , girls and sex and love is fun, until you make a child and spend the rest of your life making sure they have a good life. and where will you live , and how will you support you self and your family.
I wish you well my friend, and a sucessful life. Try to do something you can be proud of. Make a difference in someones life, improve this fine hobby, take a trip to the moon. Your life is in front of you, good luck, don't waste it.
And Please don't go out on Graduation Nite and get drunk and kill your self in an auto accident. I have pulled too many youngsters out of wrecked and tangled autos, so think, and use common sense.
And send mom a card on her birthday, mothers day and christmas.. Its important to moms. and later be sure to tell your folks thanks, for doing what they did to raise you as they did. You only do life once, so make it the best you can
But learn to understand that when you are old and decrepit, you will want to know that the youngsters will have some patience with you.
Life is tough, and getting old is not for sissies.
ok now this fat old man in his scooter will shut up and wish you luck.
tom N6AJR
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by W4FSK on June 18, 2005
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So I'm at the hamfest and see this guy riding along on a scooter. He's got an SB200 amp strapped to the back, a mini-tower computer case strapped to the front and an HF strapped to each side.
I then see him later in the parking lot. He gets off the scooter, unstraps the SB200 and loads it into the trunk of his '74 Chrysler (with handicrapped plates), unstraps the mini-tower and does the same, and stashes both HF's in the front floorboard.
Handicrapped my a$$.
Betcha he's on SSI, too.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by NN8Y on June 18, 2005
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There goes FSK again, spouting off in his infinite wisdom without bothering to read the posts. It doesn't matter, as long as there's someone to be better than!
Since you're too lazy to even read, while calling others lazy that can't walk, I'll spell it out for you: there are people who can stand up or walk short distances, but it HURTS!
Maybe you should see if you could muster up the energy to click your last 2 remaining brain cells together and create an original thought.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6AJR on June 18, 2005
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I too can carry a transciever or computer from the the scooter to the trunk. I can probably lift 50 or 60 pounds, lifting is not my problem, its walking and standing. Heck I lift over 400 pounds every time I stand up.
Now I can't bend over with the weight, or walk with it, but I can take a bag of groceries from the trunk to the house. I have too, I live alone. does it hurt, yes, do I have a choice , no..
perhaps this fellow has a problem walking, not lifting. When you spend your 8 years in med school and access his medical records, I will consider your opinion valid, until you become the doctor of record, you are just talking out of turn.
This is what we are talking about this whole thread. You don't know his problem but feel qualified to judge him any how, who died and appointed you chief medical examiner.
73 and gud dx
tom N6AJR
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KC8VWM on June 18, 2005
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Good advice Tom! Well Taken.
I didn't realize you were involved with EMS but I can relate.
Here's some "newer" EMS terms for ya:
EMS = "Earn Money Sleeping"
The New EMS Term for the Homeless... "Urban Outdoorsman"
Drug Addict = "Chemically Co-dependent"
Drug Dealers = Unlicensed Pharmacutical Representatives.
Patient Fall = "Sudden Onset Gravity Attack"
HAZMAT teams = "Glow Worms"
The difference between prehospital care provider levels:
BLS - watches a patient die
ALS - helps a patient die
"If you could live forever, would you and why?"
Answer: "I would not live forever, because we should not live forever, because if we were supposed to live forever, then we would live forever, but we cannot live forever, which is why I would not live forever."
--- Miss Alabama in the 1994 Miss USA contest.
EMS Vehicle Bumper Stickers we all would like to have:
Boldly going nowhere. (Patrol Car)
Forget world peace. visualize using your turn signal.
(Traffic cop car)
GUYS: No shirt, no service. GALS: No shirt, no charge. (Night Shift Patrol Car)
Heart Attacks...God's Revenge For Eating His Animal Friends. (Seen on Ambulance)
Don't piss me off! I'm running out of places to hide the bodies. (Coroners Vehicle)
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.
(Fire Truck)
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me and not you. (Police Negotiator's Vehicle)
Some people are only alive because it is illegal to shoot them. (Seen on SWAT vehicle)
If you can read this, please flip me back over... (Seen upside down, on the bumper of a Police Jeep)
73 Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6AJR on June 18, 2005
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By the way mr. w4fsk, why does your call not show up here on eham FCC database, and your eham info is really clever,but actually says nothing.
so here we have another poster, complaining about hams in general, who is probably not even a ham, and is bootlegging his eham call, ( which is legal here on eham) and it it is not on qrz,
so there we have another unidentifible person making life style judgements on folks. If I write it down I stand behind it, and am not one to hide behind a phony call.
go figure..
tom N6AJR
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KE5EOT on June 18, 2005
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I went to my first Hamfest recently. Guess which ham spent the most time talking to me? The guy in the power wheelchair. He could have spent his time talking to people that he knew, he could have spent time in the discussion groups, or he could have spent his time wandering the tables. Instead, he decided to help out a newly relicensed ham. He was friendly, knowledgable, and had a good sense of humor. Most of the hams were friendly (those working the fest were helpful, but busy), but he was the only one that was willing to answer some questions based on his experience. I wouldn't worry about the hams in chairs and on scooters. I'd worry about the ones that seem to feel that newcomers are a bother.
By the way, if you need a scooter and can't afford the high priced ones, check out your local Pep Boys auto parts place. They have scooters at a much lower price.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by WA3IRJ on June 18, 2005
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Wow...Wait a minute. I am on the side of the wheelchair..and or scooter. Let me make that clear. If one needs it, he or she has every right in the world to use it ! Period ! I have one that runs around my household. It has for 27 years. I know that my daughter would give anyting for legs that work...and for that matter so would I !
She lives with the constant issues of people that flat out ...just do quite under stand what a real disability is. And anything I can do for her, or anybody else to make their life better is a small thing to me. But huge to them.
Drive the scooter...
JohnB
KB3LXY
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K8IG on June 18, 2005
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Hey Charles,
Ya forgot one:
DWPA - Died With Paramedic Assistance :)
Rich K8IG
Former firefighter/paramedic
(former after falling through the floor of a burning "Residential Pharmacetical Manufacturing Facility" gotta be PC here!)
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KB1EVZ on June 18, 2005
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N6AJR: You made my day. It's nice to see there are people who have such a positive attitude.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KC8VWM on June 18, 2005
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Please allow me to have this honor:
http://www.hamuniverse.com/multidipole.html
Thank You,
*This has been a Public Service Message brought to you by N6AJR.
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by HAMCALL on June 18, 2005
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I'm in full support of people who drive carts because they were struck down by a disease dispite living a responsible lifestyle and now want to live an active life. Good for them for refusing to let their disease prevent them from finding happiness.
It's the people suffering from lifestyle diseases who drive these vehicles and demand sympathy that get my goat. Take adult-onset, or type II, diabetes for example. The vast majority of adults today with type II got it by being obese for many years. Totally preventable, totally a product of their own irresponsibility. Society has more sympathy for diseases with names like "diabetes" than it has for ones like "morbid obesity," so they feel they should get special treatment for succumbing to the result of their irresponsible lifestyles. People who have had type I since childhood and have survived to adulthood by taking care of their weight and diet responsibly look at these fat type II adults and don't even consider them as having the same disease. It's almost an insult to them that people who were perfectly healthy but treated their health with disregard now want the same sympathy from society.
Ham radio is a hobby that requires, nay, dictates, almost no physical activity for hours on end. The result of that after years is totaly deterministic.
For people who have been hams as part of a healthy and responsible past time that takes the backseat to their families and health, but get struck down with disease, I am behind you and your carts 100%.
For those of you who spent hour after hour treating an antiquated hobby like a vocation, igoring your family and health, I say this: don't be surprised when a picture of you and your cart shows up on a certain ham website.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6AJR on June 18, 2005
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AHH Yes, Hamcall, another anonomous poster. no name no call. but sitting in judgement.. I bow to your wisdom sir, or mam, for such astute observations, on our behalf.
tom N6AJR
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KC8VWM on June 18, 2005
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Apparently, anonymity is also a preventable disease
and yet, oddly it exists.
Totally preventable in 72.5% of all cases in my clinical opinion.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KC8VWM on June 18, 2005
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Apparently, anonymity is also a preventable disease
and yet, oddly it exists.
Totally preventable in 72.5% of all cases in my clinical opinion.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N1DXM on June 19, 2005
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I am amazed that a fellow ham would even consider downing anyone in a scooter..I agree that there are, no doubt, some fakers who are too darned lazy to walk, but who is to weed them out of the real handicapped people? The majority of these people would gladly park their scooter and walk with those of us who are able. I have yet to attend a hamfest where there wasn't plenty of room for scotter bound hams. Many of them got that way defending our freedom and deserve to be treated accordingly.
So stop your complaining and step aside and let the fellow Ham and probably a hero get through. It won't hurt you to wait 10 seconds to look at that item you don't need anyway.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by NN8Y on June 19, 2005
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I second that!
I don't know why hams put down other hams for any reason! (You can insert the word "people" for "hams"). I've been in lots of groups, but I really don't understand this one. I see more hostility, backbiting, and infighting than any group I've been in. I would quit again, but I know it's just the very vocal minority doing it, and I just put them in the spotlight when I can.
You can tell the hams that work on high voltage equipment or climb towers. They're the cool ones, slow to jump to conclusions or judgement; think it out before acting. Patient, give time to others. The ones with confidence,knowledge and self-esteem; they don't need to constantly degrade others to feel better. Commonly known as "really nice guys".
Here's to the nice guys!
73
Rob
NN8Y
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K1CJS on June 19, 2005
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"So stop your complaining and step aside and let the fellow Ham and probably a hero get through."
Very well said. And most of us do. However, I think the majority of rants here do not have to do with those hams at all, but with others without the common consideration of their more mobile fellows, whether hams or not.
I see that posters here are a little taken aback with their fellows on those scooters who:
1. Won't even stop and ask for room if there is a knot of people in an aisle, but just push their way through without a simple 'pardon me'.
2. Accidently run over someones foot and not even care that they have done so--and you can feel the 'bump' in those carts.
3. Will stop and block an asile for a long, LONG time, and when asked "Excuse me but could I get by?" say "You can wait till I'm done."
4. Don't have the consideration for their fellow scooter users who try to be courteous to people by acting like they do.
5. DON'T HAVE COMMON COURTESY TOWARD ANYBODY AT ALL.
Its been said before, the few bad apples spoil the whole barrel. It is really too bad it applies here, especially in this situation.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K8MHZ on June 19, 2005
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KX8N,
My deepest condolances. Godspeed to your father, today on Father's Day.
73,
Mark K8MHZ
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N3JBH on June 19, 2005
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Hello every one and happy fathers day to the dads on here. And to Dave I express my heart-felt condolences to you this father’s day. And I have said a prayer in the honor of a man I never met but sounded so nice.
This thread has been rather insightful to me, as I have read all the postings.
And wow I can agree with several of the remarks I too feel that courtesy is a must. It never hurt any one to say thank you excuse me or I am so sorry pardon me. And I assure each and every one of you that I never felt that because of my disability that I was deserving of any special exceptions that was of a burden to others or the public.
And I must agree that I am sure there are snobs among us both disabled and healthy that taint the opinion of all. But for the most part this thread has made me proud to been a ham.
Further more I like to state that I wish nothing more than the absolute best for any one on here. And hope that we as fellow ham can continue on as good will ambassadors to the rest of the population of the world. It simply makes me proud to be part of a fine group as is the group of hams you all are. 73’s my friends and god speed jeff/n3jbh
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by AB7JK on June 19, 2005
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A Rascal 600? Isn't that made by the same people who make that crummy interface?
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6AJR on June 19, 2005
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A Happy Fathers Day to all.. ain't nothing better than being a Dad..
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N3JBH on June 19, 2005
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no kim the interface you are referring to is made by.
BUX COMM corp.
wow the rasscal line of scooters are made by:Electric Mobility Corporation.
and wow i cant comment on buxcomm's rascal i can tell you the rascal 600 is indeed a qauilty scooter.it has been considered the linclon towne car of the scooters.
and if your ever in need of a scooter i would highly recomend it to you but if you still fill inclined i will post website for both rascal's you can read your self thanks jeff
http://www.rascalscooters.com/
http://buxcomm.com/RASCALkit.htm
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by NN8Y on June 19, 2005
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<Ham radio is a hobby that requires, nay, dictates, almost no physical activity for hours on end.>
***********************************
Unless you do it like this guy. He must be part pack mule. HOOOOOOAHHH Steve!
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http://www.eham.net/user/profile/WB2WIK
<The photo above is me, operating backpack portable atop Slide Mountain (NY) with battery power and everything shown, plus much more, was hauled up several miles and 3000 feet vertically, on my back. Now, isn't that fun?>
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by AA3VD on June 19, 2005
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I'm surprised to hear that ANYONE is giving handicapped people any crap or hassle. I've been handicapped since late 1997.
I'm a vet also (Army), but my handicap is not service-related. A neurological problem affected my left leg. I can walk, but slowly, wear a leg brace, and use a cane. I have problems with heavy doors, steps with no handrail, high curbs, and steep downhill slopes.
I have NEVER encountered anything but offers of help, opened doors, and folks who move to clear a path for me. And I don't look frail or helpless-6 feet tall, got most of my hair, and don't look my age (67). People have just about run to come help me when they think I'm having a problem. That includes expriences in Washington, DC, and "down home" in Southern Maryland where I now live.
Maybe I've just been lucky. And I do get those good parking spaces close to the entrance!
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KF3EG on June 19, 2005
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I guess someone in a wheel chair without legs would be labled a porker?
Wonder how many in chairs at Dayton are disabled Vets who gave up their mobility to give people the freedom to bitch about them.
Strange how people who have no idea what its like to be in a chair have the biggest mouth and complain about chairs.
Those that complain about people in chairs, I wonder if they would survive in a chair, or maybe thats why they run their mouth, they are scared that might be them one day.
Well I am a disabled Vet and I use a power chair that cost more than some new cars, $22,000.00 and I paid for it, not the VA or SS, I did. I can walk about 25 feet and I am average weight for my height, so I am not in the porker class.
I do not go to Dayton because of inconsiderate morons who think they are so much better than people with disablities and since I can walk about 25 feet I don't trust myself enough to go to Dayton, since I can get up and crack some idiot in the jaw.
I have had a chair for about 5 years and I worked and owned a company for years before a bullet frag shifted in my spine.
I can afford not to go to Dayton, but I do feel for the disabled guys who go to Dayton to get a deal and have to put up with this kind of BS.
KF3EG
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KC7PAX on June 19, 2005
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Well..
The next time i see a fellow ham buzzing around on a scooter, I think I'll ask him if i can help with
anything like helping him getting something off the table to look at, or just taking the time to talk over lunch and a BEER...
N7HTN (X KC7PAX)
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KC7PAX on June 19, 2005
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Well..
The next time i see a fellow ham buzzing around on a scooter, I think I'll ask him if i can help with
anything like helping him get something off the table to look at, or just taking the time to talk over LUNCH and a COLD BEER...
N7HTN
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by W0LC on June 20, 2005
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Personally, I don't see an issue with scooters at Hamfests, as long as the operators are kind enough to let individuals by in crowded areas.
I see similar problems with individuals that pull wagons, etc. to tow junk they by around the hamfest and in some areas, the space is tight and causes a congestion problem.
If someone isn't able to get around on foot, then by all means, use a mode of movement that allows for your ability to enjoy the hamfest!
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K9FV on June 20, 2005
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"I feel I have more rights than most people and I will use them as I see fit."
Perhaps it is statements like this that cause problems? Made by an earlier poster who claims to be handicap'd - I'd guess he is - at least inconsiderate.
Ken
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KB2FCV on June 20, 2005
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My wife is scooter bound due to her disability and she'd gladly give it up so she can walk on her own without assistance. Surely there are some fakers out there, but why 'take it out' on people who have legitimate disabilities and require the use of a mobility device? You people have some gall. You should count your blessings that you can walk on your own two feet with no problems.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N3ZKP on June 20, 2005
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<< A Happy Fathers Day to all.. ain't nothing better than being a Dad.. >>
But darn close behind it, if not actually tied for best, is being a GrandDad!
Lon
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K1CJS on June 20, 2005
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"Surely there are some fakers out there, but why 'take it out' on people who have legitimate disabilities and require the use of a mobility device? You people have some gall. You should count your blessings that you can walk on your own two feet with no problems."
Pardon me, but I believe you will find that the comments here were directed toward those people who don't actually need those devices but use them anyway, and in the course of using them don't give a darn about anybody else around them from the point of plain rudeness to the point of inflicting injury.
You have, however, made clear an issue that should be stated. It seems that those who actually need the devices are VERY considerate of those others around them, as I'm sure your wife is. I don't believe anybody is referring to them at all.
Why are you taking umbrage against the posters here who have plainly stated that in their posts? Nobody has said anything derogatory when referring to people who need these devices to get around. I think you should re-read the posts, take a step back and calm down a bit.
Lastly, I can't speak for everybody here, but I believe every time we see someone worse off that we are, we thank God we aren't in that persons shoes. I know I do.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6AJR on June 20, 2005
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Ok so you are saying if I am nice and considerate then I must be a real ham in need of using a chair, but if I accidently run over your foot or back into you ( no rear view mirrors) them I am just a fat slob who is faking it. That is what you just said.
My point being No One died and appointed you the judge, I actually am a kind and considerate person, and am very careful when driving my scooter, But If I accidentaly bump you then I turn into a monster..
Oh I get it , some of you are all knowing and all wise.
My friend. we are who we are, and how I drive my scooter has nothing to do with it, and I really don't care if you think I am some poor unfortunate soul who needs assistance, or some fat slob who is faking it and lazy and putting one over on the SSI.
I deal with the pain every day, and thank goodness I have enough money to buy myself a scooter.
The only way you get one from Medicare is to not be able to walk AT ALL , and not have enough strength in your arms to use a manual wheel chair, then they will pay for one for you. SO most folks in a scooter are mearly in miserable pain when standing or walking and use the scooter as a convient way to get around with out hurting too much. most are not eligable for a "free" one.
This thread has gone on for days, and the bottom line is who gives any one the authority to make these kind of stupid judgements. don't look at me and say " oh poor fellow" or "lazy fat slob"
look at me and say "hey there goes another human, using a scooter". If you want to know why I am in the damned thing then ask me. learn, don't assume.
thanks tom N6AJR
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6AJR on June 20, 2005
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Ok so you are saying if I am nice and considerate then I must be a real ham in need of using a chair, but if I accidently run over your foot or back into you ( no rear view mirrors) them I am just a fat slob who is faking it. That is what you just said.
My point being No One died and appointed you the judge, I actually am a kind and considerate person, and am very careful when driving my scooter, But If I accidentaly bump you then I turn into a monster..
Oh I get it , some of you are all knowing and all wise.
My friend. we are who we are, and how I drive my scooter has nothing to do with it, and I really don't care if you think I am some poor unfortunate soul who needs assistance, or some fat slob who is faking it and lazy and putting one over on the SSI.
I deal with the pain every day, and thank goodness I have enough money to buy myself a scooter.
The only way you get one from Medicare is to not be able to walk AT ALL , and not have enough strength in your arms to use a manual wheel chair, then they will pay for one for you. SO most folks in a scooter are mearly in miserable pain when standing or walking and use the scooter as a convient way to get around with out hurting too much. most are not eligable for a "free" one.
This thread has gone on for days, and the bottom line is who gives any one the authority to make these kind of stupid judgements. don't look at me and say " oh poor fellow" or "lazy fat slob"
look at me and say "hey there goes another human, using a scooter". If you want to know why I am in the damned thing then ask me. learn, don't assume.
thanks tom N6AJR
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6PEH on June 20, 2005
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I would never mock anyone that is confined to a wheelchair or scooter or less fortunate than myself. Mainly because it is just wrong. But I do have a very high level of contempt and disgust for those indivduals who pride themselves on having something they are not really entitled to. Like a handicap sticker, parking in the handicap parking, and are not handicapped. These folks are practically glorious in their illgotten gain, almost wearing it like a badge of honor! The same goes for those individuals that are using scooters that don't need to.
Why I dislike this behavior so much is mostly because, it is just wrong and very bad form. I believe it to also be a huge lack of respect for those who really need these things to function in society. It is a mistake as a society to foster laziness, glutney, dishonesty, or any other unhealthy behavior.
For those individuals who do have legitimate handicapps, I would expect a similiar outrage.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6AJR on June 20, 2005
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but there in lies the problem. Unless some one comes up and says to you " Hi, I'm not really disabled but I love my placard " then you don't know. Like I said earlier my EX-wife had respritory problems , but she looked perfectly healthy.
you would see her get out of her car and say "she doesn't look very handicapped to me" and you would be right, she did not LOOK handicapped, but her alegries were life threating ( alergic to gas fumes, perfume, artifical colors and artificial flavors.. lots of crap)and very serious and the less time she spent in walking across a parking lot the less chance there was of her getting zapped and possibly dying.
so she looked fine at 5'6" and probably 135 pounds or so, no limps, no deformities. She looked fine, but the medical doctor, who went to school for 8 years or so to make these kind of judgements said SHE WAS DISABLED and gave her the placard.
like I said , you can't tell by looking.
don't make judgements with out all the information, and training to do such.
just figure if they are in a scooter, or chair, or have a placard, then they have some type of disibility and need a little help. No more No less.
thats the bottom line folks, it doesn't matter if they are nice or mean, good drivers or bad, fat or skinny. none of that matters, what does matter is they need a little help, so they use a scooter or chair or placard.
tom N6AJR
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K4JF on June 20, 2005
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<I would never mock anyone that is confined to a wheelchair or scooter or less fortunate than myself. Mainly because it is just wrong. But I do have a very high level of contempt and disgust for those indivduals who pride themselves on having something they are not really entitled to. Like a handicap sticker, parking in the handicap parking, and are not handicapped. >
But the problem is: you have absolutely no way of knowing whether they are "entitled" or not. So common courtesy requires that we assume they ARE entitled (since they had to pass certain requirements to get the sticker in the first place), and behave accordingly, with courtesy and respect.
I have far more contempt for those who ridicule the unfortunate than I have for those few who might misuse a sticker.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by WA3IRJ on June 20, 2005
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There are fakers in every walk of life...for sure. As I said before, I have a special person in my houshold.
You have to understand one thing. Being in a chair..vitualy everything that they have to do is much more effort ! Everything! I sometimes have to remind myself of that. But if you ever have the chance try surviving for a few hours...and use one. It will give you a new perspective of how we take out mobility for granted. They do not want pity. They just want to have mobility. I think that we can deal with that. I hope we can !
JohnB
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K1CJS on June 20, 2005
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Tom,
I claim no such thing. I am nobodys judge, except possibly my own--or I should say my conscience is my judge. Please just answer one question--if you do accidently run over someone's foot, do you apologise? I'm sure you do. If you would please refer to my point--I'll repeat it here:
"......and in the course of using them don't give a darn about anybody else around them from the point of plain rudeness to the point of inflicting injury."
If you apologise you apparantly do 'give a darn', don't you? But there are those who won't, and don't.
Why are you trying to make me out as saying something that I'm not?
The reason I'm so ape-sh*t upset about those uncaring people is because I was the victim of one of them. The end result was one of a pair of $110 leather dress shoes torn and ruined and a nasty cut across the top of my foot. I managed to get to the guy in the next aisle, and his reply to me when I asked him if he felt the bump when he ran over my foot was in the order of 'Oh, poor baby---You can't prove I did that, so leave me alone.' And yes, I was polite to him when I asked.
Yep, he was considerate, all right. He didn't even ask if I was alright, let alone asking if there was anything to be done. Let me say that he was in a store cart, and when he checked out he walked out to his car and drove away. And yes, the store took care of my expenses--it seems the cart was found to be broken when it was checked.
I apologise to you for my remarks if what I'm trying to say still isn't clear to you. I know you mean well, Tom, and if I ever happen to meet you, the coffee is on me. Yes, we are who we are--and who we've been made to be.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by W4FSK on June 20, 2005
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"but the medical doctor, who went to school for 8 years or so to make these kind of judgements said SHE WAS DISABLED and gave her the placard."
I just wonder how many CW waivers were given over the years to people who really didn't need them by competent doctors??? Surely all those waivers were deserved...after all, they were all signed by a medical doctor who went to school for 8 years or so to make those kind of judgements....
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K1CJS on June 20, 2005
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Dewey, Cheatum and Howe, (yes, I mean W4FSK who isn't in the FCC database), how many of those competent doctors hand out their signature on those certificates or the exemption letters for the fear of malpractice suits? Even if the lawsuit is frivolous and without merit, the insurance company ups the doctors insurance premium.
So, the doctor signs it. After all, it doesn't affect them--it may even bring them more business.
This time I'll say it--it's a result of this "I want it, give it to me" society we are living in today.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6AJR on June 20, 2005
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K1CJS
I am sorry to have you have a bad experience , but that guy was in the wrong. he should have appoligized.. but like you say some folks are jerks, it has nothing to do with the scooter, be glad he was not in his 4wd pickup..73 and good dx
tom n6ajr
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RE: Disabilities Indeed!
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by VE7ALQ on June 21, 2005
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I am confined to a wheelchair outside my apartment.
I don't have money for a scooter so it is a mechanical
wheelchair. I have to get someone to push me should
I want to go anywhere outdoors or in a place like
the Hamfest.
I am bewildered by the lack of empathy shown by some
amateurs. I can NOT walk except for two or three feet,
and doing so is incredibly painful, and I can't go
outside in my walker because (1) I must go barefoot,
and (2) I black out if I go more than 25 feet at once.
I can't exactly "rise out of my chair and walk" Not
possible for me :(
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by G3RZP on June 21, 2005
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One point about Dayton is that some of the tarmac is broken up enough to be positively dangerous for scooter riders. Some of the ramps need special care too. I've seen scooter riders come off the last two years at Dayton, and the fact they got away without injury is somewhat amazing.
I walk with a cane and with difficulty - the result of slipping on stairs, and walking far or standing for long is a problem. So I do have a lot of sympathy for these guys. As long as we all respect each other, there shouldn't be a problem, but these days, respect for others is beginning to get a bit old fashioned. Having said that, Americans seem better than many - I get embarassed getting on an airport bus in the US when a young girl gets up to offer me her seat just because I walk with a limp and a cane! And that happens in the US more often than you'd imagine. It wouldn't happen in London.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KC8VWM on June 21, 2005
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I think some of the safety issues mentioned at hamfests are valid. However, the fact that an individual uses a scooter to get around at one is a really a non issue in my opinion.
I don't even use a scooter and I have trouble getting around a hamfest at times. There are tripping hazards, poorly maintained uneven walkways, potholes in the asphalt, doorways are sometimes obstructed with chairs propping them open etc. etc.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KB2UBH on June 21, 2005
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KC8VWM- You forgot the 3 basic EMS rules (spent 15 years as a paramedic)
1. Pink is good, blue is bad
2. All bleeding EVENTUALLY stops.
3. If you drop the baby, pick it up. (slippery little buggers)
73's Steve
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by WA0TDA on June 22, 2005
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Dayton was a LOT better this year than last for mobility. The difference was that it didn't rain on Saturday this year, as it did in 2004. When it rains, the indoor spaces do indeed become difficult to navigate, whether or not one uses a scooter or wheelchair, since everyone comes indoors!
Planning for scooters and chairs should be part of the setup, but it really helps when individual vendors don't shove their tables right up to the aisle, instead allowing open booths. This won't work for every vendor, but those who represent organizations giving out literature and so forth can use this kind of booth layout. Of course we expected folks using scooters, so we had our table at the back of the space, right by the curtain. That way, anyone could "c'mon in and set a spell!"
It was a GREAT hamfest!
73, all...
Pat Tice
wa0tda@arrl.net
Handiham Manager
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K8IG on June 22, 2005
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Hi Steve,
4. Air goes in & out, blood goes round & round. Any variation of either is a bad thing.
73,
Rich K8IG
former FF/NREMT-P
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KC8VWM on June 22, 2005
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KB2UBH,
4. You can't cure stupidity, it's apparently not a medical condition.
5. Be sure and always ask the rookie to pass you the fallopian expirational lardel bag tubes from the airway equipment bag whenever possible.
6. Never try to rationalize why a person who was riding his 10 speed bicycle on a major highway involved in a head on collision with a tractor trailer suddenly starts complaining to you about the bumpy ride in the back of a well controlled ambulance.
7. ...No there is no machine gun, grenade launcher, or laser guided missle switches installed anywhere on the dash or in proximity of the communication console of an ambulance. (Just in case you were looking for one.. and YES you will look for it at times!)
:)
Charles - KC8VWM
"ER Trauma Dog"
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by WR8Y on June 23, 2005
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I am convinced that many people who ride those things are simply fat, lazy, and/or simply haven't taken care of themselves. Riding those scooters simply help them to go down hill faster...
HOWEVER, my sister has M.S. and you'd often wonder why she's in a wheel chair (she doesn't LOOK disabled), but the fact is, she cant rely on her legs anymore. (She's only 49).
SO... whatever, let 'em ride!
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RE: Blaming the DIsabled for their Disabilities
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by VE7ALQ on June 23, 2005
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I notice this incredible sub-human common theme through
these posts, namely that the disabled are somehow
responsible for their disability, instead of the more
charitable approach that "There for the grace of G-d go I".
I did not choose to have a head injury when the bus
ran over me (at a bus stop). I did not choose to
break my ankle when rushing to answer a juicy piece
of Telephone Spam! (I no longer answer the phone)
The hospital was kind enough to infect my ankle by
the technique they decided to employ while
immobilizing it, and infect it with a super bug
which is immune to most antibiotics. My lawyer says
I cannot win a court case against the hospital.
As well as being disabled and in a wheelchair, I am
in constant pain from the moment I get up until the
moment I fall asleep. I am on Morphine, that makes
it better but does not get rid of all of the pain.
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by WV2B on June 23, 2005
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When I worked for a sheltered workshop for people with disabilities we had to take training to enable us to realize what disabled people have to deal with. For one day, we had to choose a disability, and spend the whole day in the situation. Be confined to a wheelchair and not allowed to get up, wear a blindfold, earplugs, etc. Maybe this is what the complainers should do. For the next hamfest they should be required to have to haul a motorized wheel chair to the hamfest, unload it, stay confined to it all day, and then reload it for the trip back home. Hey guess what? See something you would like to look at? Too bad, other people crowd around and you have no way to get in. Can't see some of the stuff on the tables because you are too low? Too bad. Can't get to certain tailgate spots because of uneven or rough terrain? Again- too bad for you. And, what if you have to go to the bathroom, you cannot walk and the chair won't fit through the door? Big too bad on you. Maybe you would see what it is like to ride around in a lazy-mobile for while. 73.
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RE: Blaming the Disabled for their Disabilities
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by KC8VWM on June 23, 2005
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Wow!, I am rather amazed to actually read some of the rather uninformed comments expressed by a few cave dwellers.
It must be pretty nice to have the extraordinary ability to judge a book by it's cover.
I suppose it's always much easier to categorize every disabled individual into a single shoe box than to understand each person's individual situation.
I wonder what does this seems to suggest about certain people's understanding (or lack thereof) as it relates to the many complexities involved with the disabled population?
Remember, a limited understanding of the disabled population is a rather debilitating cognitive deficiency impairment in itself.
I can only hope they find a cure for these individuals soon.
Thanks for listening.
Charles - KC8VWM
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KF3EG on June 23, 2005
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I know this is a old thread, but I had a thought since my last post on it.
I wonder how some people would take it if this was their mother in a wheel chair and you heard a comment about her or their mother ran into someones leg with a shopping cart and they jumped on this 80 year old womans case, ya know the one, who gave birth to you.
You would want to kill them, think about it. Now you have a 2% idea of what its like everyday, day in and day out being in a chair.
73
KF3EG
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N0MUD on June 25, 2005
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Yes I too have a scooter and I have to use it while at work and if I have to do any walking, I will use the scooter instead because it is difficult to walk long distances. I recently went to a Ham Fest here in Colorado Springs, CO put on by the club PPRAA June 11th held in a high school Gym in Monument, CO. I started to walk up to the school and realized the doors were farther than I thought they were so I went back and got my scooter out of my vehicle. I rode it into the school and I started to ride it into the Ham Fest and I found I couldn't get thru the walkers and talkers and trying to see what was on the tables. I was looked down on by my fellow HAMS as to why am I riding this contraption in the Ham Fest. Well I got fed up with my fellow HAMS refusing to let me ride my scooter and enjoy the Ham Fest like they was, so I ended up parking it. I would walk for a while and then have to find a chair and sit, then get up and walk for a while and then find a chair and sit. I got hurt in the Navy in 1967 onboard a Navy Ship and my back was injured. It got worse during my 20 years and I was able to retire on 20. After retirement I became a Police Officer and then got hurt on the job and had to take a medical retirement. In 1998 my back started getting worse and I applied for a Disability rating with the VA and was given a 40% rating and the VA paid for my scooter and I want to also thank all of you tax paying Americans because it was your taxes at work that helped pay for my scooter. I just want all of my fellow HAMS that not all of us that have to ride scooters are fat, dumpy greasy sleezzeballs. Because I am not. I ride a scooter because I have to not because I want to. I wish I could have my health back but I can't. Don't look down on me but let me be just like you and enjoy ham radio like you do. When we go to Ham Fests let us drive/ride our scooters because we have to and treat us just like you want to be treated as TRUE AMERICAN HAM RADIO OPERATORS. Those Ham Radio Operators that look fat and can't see their belt buckles have been riding their scooters for a very long time and probably can't do exercise because of their health. I know I can't exercise but I try to watch what I eat and when I do walk it is difficult at best. Since January 2000 I've had 2 back surgeries, 3 hip replacements, two on the left and one on the right, on the left side a recalled part was put in me and the first replacement was removed and a new hip was put in, and I've had 3 heart attacks and 4 stents put in my heart, my third heart attack was just June 5th 2005. I am still alive and I am still a Ham Radio Operator just like you so please let us that have to ride scooters get the same respect that you folks that have full use of your legs, back and heart have.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Mike Dassero, NØmud
Colorado Springs, CO
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K1CJS on June 25, 2005
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It is really too bad that some people insist on calling people who don't need mobility devices and have commented here as being selfish, uncaring and charge that they don't have a clue.
Although remarks may have been made about any mobility device user, almost all remarks were made about the people using those devices that a:) don't really need them and b:) are rude enough to run over their own mother. True, nobody can tell who really needs the devices and who doesn't, so it is only right that those who use them are assumed to need them.
The real issue is courtesy--just because people are using those devices, it doesn't give them the right to hurt other people or to not apologise if they happen to accidently hit or run over someones foot, hand, etc--even if they don't realize it.
First, when you're driving, either a vehicle or a mobility device, you're supposed to look where you're going. If you aren't looking--DON'T MOVE. Second, courtesy is everyones responcibility no matter if you need to use the mobility device or not. I know most people will apologise, but there are those who think the world owes them, and to hell with everyone else. Sadly, a few of the people using those devices have that attitude.
Courtesy is everyones responcibility--EVERYONES! Having been chosen by fate to use a mobility device doesn't give anyone the right to not be courteous. Period.
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by N6AJR on June 25, 2005
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I sure like it when folks feel entitled to teach me how to drive, and how to be polite..
Folks if you are a nice person, you will do the proper thing on a scooter or in a chair, and if you are a anal retentive orifice you are going to do what you please. Either your mother taught you properly or she didn't, at 50 years plus.. I don't need to be told any more.
I don't care how many folks here tell me I am " a fat lazy smelly hamd who only rides the scooter because I am lazy" and I don't care how many say , "if he is in a scooter assume he or she is hurt and needs it."
I use the scooter because I have to, I don't need to tell anyone why, and if you think I am too big.. knock your self out.. I am the way I am because of what happened. I don't want pity, I don't want extra privleges, I just want to get around easier because I can't walk more than about 100 feet.
I do what I have to do, like it or get over it. I would appreciate it if you hold the door, ( because the folks don't meet the ADA and have an auto door opener) and will talk to you about what happened if you ask.
But don't ASSume and now folks LET it drop, this horse is dead.
BTW I shower daily, brush my tooth at least once a month, and have been known to buy deoderant on rare occasions. So enough with the fat smelly hams comment. thats discusting, especially after the 10th time.
I will ASSume any postings after this will be because you like to see your thoughts published, not because your comment is valid..
Tom N6AJR tired of the repetition
Tom N6AJR tired of the repetition
Tom N6AJR tired of the repetition
Tom N6AJR tired of the repetition
Tom N6AJR tired of the repetition
Tom N6AJR tired of the repetition
Tom N6AJR tired of the repetition
Tom N6AJR tired of the repetition
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RE: Amateurs with Disabilities
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by K4JF on June 25, 2005
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<The real issue is courtesy-->
That's right. And it's sadly lacking in many facets of life today. I would like to think hams are more courteous than the average but that does not seem to be the case.
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KC2NKM on June 25, 2005
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Acording to the law we have the right to use the scooter any place. In NYS people can use Quads to go into the park ware orther can not use motorized units , GEt with the 2000's it is there leg .
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by KE7CFA on June 26, 2005
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The only 'beef' I have, if you will, with scooters (in general)...... is they are so quiet. I can't hear them come up behind me, tripped over more than one of them.
Other than that..... so what? What does this matter. I've noticed, more at gun shows than ham fest's, that the tables are to close and don't leave enough room in the iles for wheel chairs and scooters.
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by WH6NY on June 26, 2005
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It's not that people with disabilities shouldn't have scooters, it's what they do with them.
I've seen the horror that results when dozens of these antisocial scooter misfits descend on a hapless town and wreak havoc. Tearing up and down the sidewalks, chasing the citizenry, scaring the elderly as packs of drunken scooter trash menace the locals.
Crazy stunts, racing one another, putting the public at risk with their powered scooters, they thumb their collective noses at us as they careen about laughing maniacially.
Hamfests and conventions are not the place for these reckless hooligans. Our hobby is about fun, family and wholesome values, we can allow these disabled people and their fancy, powerful scooters to continue to terrorize us with their brazen "rebel without a cause" antics.
I'm reminded of a town called Hollister, they too felt the sting of a crazy band of rebelious mischief makers, on powerful machines, riding down the sidewalks, threatening everyone who dared object. I'd hate to see this happen at the next hamfest.
Let's nip this in the bud, people!
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Amateurs with Disabilities
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by VE8AA on July 15, 2005
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Those that you are referring to as being descriminatory in the article must also be the people that park in disabled spaces with out a permit, and say "but I'm only going to be a minute"....
Need I say more? Please don't get me started!
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