It Takes a Clique
from
John Wendt, WA6BFH
on
August 4, 2005
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It Takes a Clique
By John Wendt, WA6BFH
Some will tell you that, “it takes a village”, and some will tell you that, “it takes a family”. Now while there is certainly nothing wrong with strong influence and encouragement from the structure within a family, such influence is in this instance probably all too rare! No, I will tell you that it takes a clique, or what some might call a “special interest group”. If we are ever going to get Ham radio off the dime and before the public, it is going to take a motivated group to get the job done!
I have in the past promoted or advocated individual radio clubs to start what I call “Elmer’ing Committees”. These committees would do many things ranging from helping newer Ham’s with RFI problems, or simply better inculcating them as to how to build and maintain their radio stations. Something else they could do is establish compelling examples of Ham radio prowess to publicize Ham radio to the lay public.
I would suggest for these demonstrations something more than just working a few other Ham’s in another country, or down the block. This could be down via satellite communication, Earth Moon Earth “Moon-bounce”, or by whatever means would best capture the enthusiasm of the intended audience. I suspect that such demonstrations might even appeal to less experienced neophytes within our avocation. I’m thinking of the ones that know only of 2 Meter FM, working DX on 20 Meters, or maybe just rabble rousing on 80 Meters.
We need to start advertising and promoting our presence in very understandable and compelling ways to those who don’t know the difference between “CB” and Ham radio. We probably also should be almost as concerned about those within our ranks that don’t know such things as the difference between a transformer and a regulated “DC” power supply, or the difference between antenna efficiency as opposed to some brand or generic name antenna.
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It Takes a Clique
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by IMBACKHF on August 4, 2005
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I think that good Ham clubs in and of itself are better then the "Elmering Clique".
Often times these so called Elmers are so set in their ways and so prejudicial against new ideas that it often is more detrimental for the newcomer to be associated with them.
In the club where i live - and we have a few good ones -- the group as a whole is very constructive and helpful -- but if you go to the Saturday morning breakfast which is mainly for the Old Guys (not designed that way just happens) it turns into a dark and scary event if you mention anything that doesn't involve code, tubes, or fan dipole antennas.
Also -- just becuase youre old does not make you an Elmer -- it makes you an Elder.
There are some great guys in their mid thirtys in our club that have a blast doing satellite radio -- and are very good at it -- and I have learnt a great deal from them -- and actually hit the birds a few lucky times -- but of course the so-called "Elmers" of the club sees this as not "true" ham..
anyway .. I dont think it takes a Clique -- cliques are bad -- they are based on "higher-then-thou" mentality -- I think it takes a group of folks that enjoy the same thing you do and makes you feel welcome ...
and finally -- dont get me wrong on this -- and I am kind of new to this board -- but WA6BFH -- I can kind of see how from your last million postings where you would come across as one of those so called Elmers that have the ol' "my-way-or-the-highway" attitudes... but maybe I am just new to this.
.
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by K0BG on August 4, 2005
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I am not a nay-sayer, but it is my opinion that radio clubs are on their way out. Where dozens of amateurs used to gather for each meeting, the numbers have dwindled down to just a handful. While I agree some clubs have flourished, many more have bit the dust; a sad and unfortunate truth.
If I thought a clique (or coffee klatch) would promote amateur radio, I'd join in a minute. Fact is, I do belong to one. Every Saturday morning, from three to as many as twenty-five local amateurs meet for breakfast at a local truck stop. We manage to talk about everything under the sun except promoting amateur radio. Why?
Amateur radio no longer holds the mystique it once did. Whether this is directly related to the demise of the code requirement, or the new, more simple test questions, or the internet with it myriad of facets, is a matter of opinion. Nonetheless the fact remains; the mystique is gone.
I wish you luck in getting together a clique of your amateur radio friends, and I hope it works. But if the aura is anything like it is around these parts, you won't have much luck.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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by K3WVU on August 4, 2005
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I can't say that clubs are on their way out, at least based on our local club. The club has a bunch of activites and gets a good response from local outreach efforts. In the end, it's what you make it.
73
Dwight
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by KC0SHZ on August 4, 2005
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The clubs in my area are in serious transition. The area clubs have a variety of political issues that just don't seem to die and new HAM's such as myself are getting tired of them. The "HELP-Interesting topic to Political tripe ratio" is getting worse. I and many of my contemporaries are looking at our clubs and asking "why should I keep going?"
I could see small spinter cells of HAM's doing their own self learning. I can see Elmer type relationships happening outside of the clubs.
We are starting to do fox hunts. I built a tape measure yagi. It was nice to be able to take it to the Great Plains Super Launch and get some tips on these and to try it out against commercial antennas. I had tape left over, so I thought about using the tape to build a 2 meter moxon. It would have been nice to have local help, but no one has built one of these. It would be great to have sources of Elmers that would be able to help with these projects. Local is best, but even a stable online site would be good.
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by K0PD on August 4, 2005
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I am in agreement with Alan K0BG and you can use my town for a example. About 10 year's back we had good club attendance and were giving license xam's regurly.First hint of a problem of future interest was that 99% of those testing were only interested in getting just a tech license.When ever young people showed up to test you could see the look's of are there no other's in our age group.
The Club meeting's in my View were boring and attended by just us old geezer's.So i guess from what i've described our particular CLIQUE was a discouragement rather than a aid or encouragement.Now here we are 10 year's down the road and our repeater's are bascically dead and when ever i run into a fellow Ham the first question out of there mouth's is "do you ever get on the radio any more or do you hear any body on the radio any more.I really do not lay the blame so much at lack of knowledge of ham Radio but rather the new era of various form's of communication.In so many word's COMPETITION that we did not have 30 year's ago.
Just my opinion on the subject but i'll leave you with just one thought and with what all is available and considered fun look what a young person can buy for the same money and in many cases less money than amateur radio's and it's what they and there friend's do have in common...
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by W4BPK on August 4, 2005
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Well from what I have read on another forum it seems like the Old Gang don't want anybody to come into the hobby unless they can send and receive 20++ wpm code. Not everybody wants to sit and strain trying to figure out what they just heard. I am one of those that don't have the ability to do code very good. I struggled to get 5wpm to get Element 1 but I did do it. I hate to see people put down because that they don't or can't do code and were not born 50 years ago in the tube days. I say if you want to do code by all means have at it, but on the other hand if I want to do PSK or RTTY don't put me down. Live and let live.
73
de
Bill W4BPK
Donalsonville, Ga.
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by THERAGE on August 4, 2005
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<We need to start advertising and promoting our presence in very understandable and compelling ways to those who don’t know the difference between “CB” and Ham radio.>
hopefully not like the way it was displayed in the last article. 73
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by K3WVU on August 4, 2005
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John,
Good article--I forgot to mention that in my previous post.
Now I've got an off-topic question for you. You don't have to answer it here.
One person made all of the following statements within the last 30-45 days. Can you guess who he/she/it is?:
#1
"Dude -- I don't even own a CB -- hell CB was dead by the time I graduated Middle School -- unlike most of you 90 year old adult diaper wearing alligator station operators I'm in my mid 20s..... "
#2
"This may even cause me to give up my CB all together -- although at 1000 watts my CB can far exceed most things you pussy Ham radio Elmers even come close to... talk to you on the flip side good buddy.."
#3
"I don't own a CB -- in fact by the time that i got out of high school and college CB was dead... so these comments about CB this and CBr that just serves no purpose except to waste good webspace"
#4
"There are some great guys in their mid thirtys in our club that have a blast doing satellite radio -- and are very good at it -- and I have learnt a great deal from them -- and actually hit the birds a few lucky times -- but of course the so-called "Elmers" of the club sees this as not "true" ham.."
#4
"Ham is not going to die -- but we are the last generation that is putting any mass effort toward it -- I am 29 years old -- I am 12 years younger then the second youngest ham in my club -- and my club is a major club in a major city--"
#5
"this is more fun then cranking up the old CB amp and hitting 1000 watts out...but soon i will be able to do all this legally on 10 mters.. and 40... and 20...
breaker breaker 40 meters.. you got your ears on???"
#6
" I have a ham license. And I passed the Morse code test before it dropped to 5wpm. I see ham as a hobby and not a Service.
#7
"But I do have a Extra license -- got it the easy way -- 5wpm and memorized the answers.... how simple could they make it... "
#8
"I just didn't get into ham to talk to my neighbor -- some did -- i didn't -- i got in it to talk to the world -- not work the 222mhz wasteland let alone 2m or 70cm.."
#9
"I don't know what to tell you -- good job in trying -- i guess I picked it up pretty easy -- went from zero to 6 wpms in less then two weeks with code quick and also went from nothing to General in the same amount of time...just keep plugging away and relax -- I had no desire to be a ham but my dad did so i got it so he and I could talk back and forth..."
#10
"LICENSE??? I DON"T NEED NO STINKIN" LINCENSE!!!"
#11
"...license...I've been on HF for 20 years without one :-o"
John, I don't know whether the individual is living in a fantasy world, or just a very lonely person jumping up and down like a little boy and screaming, "Look at me, Look at me!"
73
Dwight
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by K5SEP on August 4, 2005
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BRAVO!!! Elmers and elmering via Amateur Radio education and exchanging information is the greatest tradition we have! To the point, it is needed moreso today than ever before. I myself have had numerous Amateur Radio elmers over the past 38 years I have been licensed. I have been for quite sometime in a position to return these blessings I myself have received. Moreover, we have consistently been reminded by the FCC that it is up to the Amateur Radio community to be self disciplined. Elmering positively reinforces this self discipline mode within our service. It also provides a repository of information and where to find the answers for us all. After 38 years being a licensed radio amateur I still find it necessary to get answers from someone else. Elmering also positively promotes asking questions when I do not know the answers. I am very proud to be an active two-way participant in elmering!
Bob Scupp K5SEP
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by W6AJ on August 4, 2005
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> I am not a nay-sayer, but it is my opinion that radio clubs are on their way out. Where dozens of amateurs used to gather for each meeting, the numbers have dwindled down to just a handful.<
This doesn't say anything about radio as much as it says about clubs in general. Few interest or hobby clubs draw the attendence that they did a few decades ago.
As far as the panic about the small decline in the number of hams, it is tiny in comparison to the drop in licensed pilots or even certified scuba divers. There are just more couch potatos now of days.
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by WA6BFH on August 4, 2005
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W6AJ, do you think that the oceans will ever be taken away from SCUBA divers? That they might be told, go ahead and pursue your hobby interest but, we are re-allocating the water you normally use -- so, don’t “don’t go in the water” under penalty of law!
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by N0AH on August 4, 2005
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That's why it is a good idea to join a ham club. I joined the Mile High DX Association when I was new and was told that until I had my Extra, DX'ing was going to be tough. I had several members support my CW traing/learning and it has paid off for many years. Elmers is the key word as some clubs are just coffee drinking doughnut joints- Or in some places, wine and bread bar rooms. Nice article.
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by N0AH on August 4, 2005
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K3WVU...........the suspense is killing many of us.......to whom do we owe these well thought out sayings 2?
1. Casper the Friendly Ghost
2. Jay Leno
3. Amy from Survivor III. series
4. Bugs Bunny
5. A VHF ham lover
6. All of the above
Can anyone answer this????? K3WVU, fess up!
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by THERAGE on August 4, 2005
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1. Casper the Friendly Ghost
2. Jay Leno
3. Amy from Survivor III. series
4. Bugs Bunny
5. A VHF ham lover
6. All of the above
Can anyone answer this?????
is this something that will be on the next question pool for the no code general exam???
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by KE4ZHN on August 4, 2005
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I think a good many of these clubs die because of battling egos within the club. There always seems to be individuals fighting for control of how things are done, or being the pres or whatever. People get sick of the infighting and move on. And as Alan pointed out, ham radio just isnt an "oh wow" thing anymore. You can impress people today more with a cell phone than you can on amateur radio. One reason being in todays gimme society, they simply arent willing to put any effort into learning all that one must learn to become a ham. Its so much easier to buy a computer or a cellphone and do almost everything a ham can do online or on nextel. Sad but true.
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by WA6BFH on August 4, 2005
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Guys, it is not about clubs. The author only suggested club membership as a simple way to find and join with a smaller group of dedicated folks. A few guys who would “just do it”!
If you are such a dedicated individual, that thinks you would like to do more to promote Ham radio but, you would at least like to share the load amongst a few dedicated others to help you with this -- it does not matter that you find them in a club.
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by G3SEA on August 4, 2005
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Judging from some of the comments on a couple of Ham Boards it appears to me that CLIQUES are the PROBLEM with Ham Radio :(
Just enjoy whatever system,mode,band you like and embrace all you come in contact with.
Your ENTHUSIASM alone may well spread to others to take an interest in the hobby.
To attempt to SELL Ham Radio in this age of the Internet,GMRS,FRS, PDA.Cell Phone etc is difficult at best.
KH6/G3SEA
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by YI9VCQ on August 4, 2005
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I joined a club in North Carolina about 15 years ago. At first, I wasn't welcomed by the old timers. I just kept going to meetings and Saturday breakfasts until I met a few people who wanted to do the same things I do.
When I found my "clique within a club", I had a great time. Now, fifteen years later, I've had a chance to help some of the old timers with various antenna tower projects, support for Field Day setup and operations, and other little things. It took a long time, but most of them know me as "one of the guys" now.
Some of the younger guys in the club have given presentations on various topics. Their classes got me interested in things like packet, VHF SSB/CW, and digital modes. I was able to give back by showing how to construct a portable field vertical and the use of Echolink. (Some of the old timers learned a little then...I heard them accessing my node a few days later LOL).
So, I guess my point is not to expect to make a connection with everyone. Just seek out those who have similar interests and have fun. If you stick it out long enough, you'll find something you like.
73,
Korey
YI9VCQ/KA5VCQ
Al Asad, Iraq
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by K3WVU on August 4, 2005
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N0AH,
You can find the answer in this forum. Just read through the first post or two and see if any of the statements look like those in my previous post. Send your answer in with two box tops and you get a free Captain Midnight Decoder Ring!
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by K8MHZ on August 4, 2005
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I like the idea. A handful of hams within a club (not a requirement, but a good idea) that form a small group whose reason for being is to answer questions about ham radio. They may not know the answer, but would work as a group to find the answer. They would use all resources they could, radio, e-mail reflectors, face to face QSO's, experiments, Internet searches, etc., to accomplish their task.
They would make sure they were approachable to all, especially the newest and youngest of hams. They would take pride in their work, and do it with an open mind.
I am going to suggest this to our club and be the first to volunteer, as I love to do research.
Thanks for the great idea,
Mark K8MHZ
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by W6TH on August 4, 2005
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.
Actually and a matter of fact John WA6BFH, the elmering can be done right here on eHAM.
Amateur, Ham radio is not doing very badly for membership and has increased and will keep doing so to the end of time.
Let us face it; ham radio has many flaws compared to what, years ago. We in ourselves have lowered the standards of ham radio and you say to yourselves: how when and why.
We get on eHAM and slander ourselves, ridicule one another and most times including myself, making fools of ourselves. Not all, but some of us which seems to be and make the majority.
How about we turn the leaf over and start the elmering here on eHAM and try to induce an upping of the tradition of ham radio; stop this yacking of code or no code, stop the lowering, the standards of testing, which is a huge disgrace to not only within the body of ham radio, but to the entire universe.
To clear my opinion, let it be from now on a very high standards of progressive ham radio and to educate one and another. That is to use eHAM as a teaching tool school and to educate as such to make more desirable ham radio operators. Should we talk citizens band, then that is what we will have, should we talk technician and engineering practices, then this is what we will have, ham radio, amateur radio.
Eham the school of an engineering education and without the interference of the government or such to take control.
I could be wrong and maybe after all "it" , ham radio is nothing more than a hobby; ("An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure").
If this is what most think ham radio is, a hobby:
(An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure).
Then why the cry for ELMERING? So Be It.
.:
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by KB9YGD on August 4, 2005
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Well as far as the clubs go sometimes its the blind leading the blnd, hi hi!Its true ham radio is on the decline but do we want a bunch of lazy air heads on the bands that are dumber than a box of rocks,I for one dont and i also belive you should work for what you get.Seems this is a growning trend in america do nothing and get credit for it!Also allways remebmer that REAL HAMS do CW,keep logbook`s and QSL 100% regardless of age or class of license they hold.73 ``THE REAL HAM``
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by W6TH on August 4, 2005
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.
The real hams were:
Before December 7, 1941.
Less we forget.
.:
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by JGALT on August 4, 2005
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I would never join any clique, which would want me as a member!
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by IMBACKHF on August 4, 2005
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WA6BFH
"Guys, it is not about clubs. The author only suggested club membership as a simple way to find and join with a smaller group of dedicated folks."
Dude -- you ARE the author -- whats up with this third person stuff???
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by AA4PB on August 4, 2005
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Elmering, whether on an individual or a club basis, is a good thing but the results these days are often difficult. I think Alan hit the nail on the head when he said amateur radio no longer holds the mystique it once did. People today are exposed to so much technology by way of cell phones, computers, PDAs, VCRs, TVs, Internet, etc. that radio technology and communicating via radio is no big deal to them. When I was a kid I was amazed that I could hook up some wire to a crystal set and pick up radio stations around the country. My kids and grand kids say "so what" because they can send an e-mail around the world in seconds. They are no longer amazed by technolgy in general because it is all around them. It has become routine.
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by AA4PB on August 4, 2005
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Elmering, whether on an individual or a club basis, is a good thing but the results these days are often difficult. I think Alan hit the nail on the head when he said amateur radio no longer holds the mystique it once did. People today are exposed to so much technology by way of cell phones, computers, PDAs, VCRs, TVs, Internet, etc. that radio technology and communicating via radio is no big deal to them. When I was a kid I was amazed that I could hook up some wire to a crystal set and pick up radio stations around the country. My kids and grand kids say "so what" because they can send an e-mail around the world in seconds. They are no longer amazed by technolgy in general because it is all around them. It has become routine.
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by N0TONE on August 4, 2005
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WA6BFH, please cut off and throw away the apostrophe key on your keyboard. Your OP did not need any. I have never seen you use an apostrophe correctly. It would be better to use none at all. You had the opportunity to use an apostrophe correctly by merging "it" and "is" in the last sentence of the first paragraph into "it's" but you chose not to.
The topic of the posting meandered quite a bit, but seemed to focus on helping newcomers and educating the public.
First off, you should not consider inculcating anybody about station building. Station building is an art form, and thus is amenable to education. Things that need rigid rules, such as how to format an NTS message correctly, are amenable to inculcating.
Elmering is a "whole approach" activity. In order to elmer properly, there's a bit of learning through reading, a bit of learning through watching, a bit of learning by having someone else guide you as you do it for the first time and a bit of doing it yourself the first time with someone more experienced watching.
Despite what my friend Vito says, you absolutely can not do elmering on eham or on the internet, because you can only perform the "by reading" part.
For example, it is possible for someone to learn about soldering by reading and looking at pictures. But it happens far, far more quickly if the person first watches you solder, then you let them solder, give advice, and watch again.
To me, this is the biggest thing lost lately. We have erroneously believed that the internet and club meetings can somehow replace the time-honored tradition of spending time with the newcomer at his house.
It does not take a clique. It takes just one ham, who's willing to shut off the computer, get in his car, and drive over to where the poor soul needs help.
AM
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by W6TH on August 4, 2005
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.
They are no longer amazed by technolgy in general because it is all around them. It has become routine.
-----------------------------------------------------
I don't believe this is so. Teachers can't teach and students can't be taught to learn.
Computers popular, why because of games?. Ham radio is just as popular as computers as it is a proven fact at weekends when the contests are on.
Children of all ages love to play whether it be computers or the ham radio hobby.
The ARRL had no problem to piece it together and find what the hams will enjoy most; start the games on weekends, both for profit and entertainment. You contesters seem to enjoy games and you contesters can't wait until there will be contests 24/7. This will do it as the hams will also have the computers going hand in hand with computers and transceivers combined and working together.
It Takes a Clique to keep the ball rolling, but a rolling ball gathers no moss.
.:
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by W6TH on August 4, 2005
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.
John,
N0TONE is a British subject, but I do not know where he is living, either in Canada or some colony of England; maybe England at that. His wording is English.
I do not believe in our American language there is a word for elmering, so I capitalized on mine and you added the ' to elmer'ing. Good show old chap. Me and me bloody English spelling is going to rot.
I am going to read Rudyard Kipling's book on Tommy Atkins and Tommy ow's yer soul. or when the drums begin to roll.
One thing more John: when you use the word "but" the comma should be before the but word; "Quote me", we can do it this way, but I would rather do it my way. See the comma before the but.
cheers mate. I'll meet you at the Pub. My grandmothers Pub, in London.
.:
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by KC2FTN on August 4, 2005
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"They are no longer amazed by technolgy in general because it is all around them. It has become routine."
I TOTALLY agree with this statement. I happen to work at a High School, and for the life of me I can't seem to get ANYONE interested in Ham Radio there, students or staff. They don't even want to set-up a club station and/or repeater. The typical responses are, "Why? we have computers with IM and cell phones with text-messaging. Isn't ham radio for those nerdy old-folks?" Sure, I might get one or two who *might* be interested, but their interests quickly fade when I inform them that they must learn CW to get on HF for worldwide communications. I am NOT bashing CW, I'm just telling it like it is.
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by W9OY on August 4, 2005
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Does anyone else find the words "Elmer" and Elmering" as dorky as I do?
73 W9OY
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by W6TH on August 4, 2005
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.
Definition of dorky:
1. Vulgar Slang. The penis.
2. Slang. A stupid, inept, or foolish person: �the stupid antics of America's favorite teen-age cartoon dorks� (Joshua Mooney).
.:
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It Takes a Clique
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by HAMWANNABE on August 4, 2005
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It's sad to see what's being written but there is a lot of truth to this forum. I'm a new ham and I'm still in my "fired up" stage. I'm studying code now so I can get on the HF rig I already bought and start doing what I got into this for in the first place, DX. I visited a couple of ham clubs in the area and I was very enthusiastic about meeting the folks and talking radio to learn as much as I can. After telling the regulars about my interest, their response was more negative than I ever could have imagined. I was told that I would never make contacts, the rig I have is too small (which is BS), I need a tower to DX, it's useless, blah, blah, and more BLAH. Encouragement? Helpful advice? NO, Nada, Zip. I told them I was interested in making a few contacts from time-to-time and moving on or up from there, not set the radio world on fire from day one...DX was just my main interest. They still were negative about the prospect and not one bit interested in just talking about the possibilities (I know I can DX with the antenna I have because I did it accidentally with a CB on several occassions before getting into ham radio). One club has a VERY expensive and elaborate shack with a huge tower and yagi antenna. I asked if they participated in DX contests. The response was pretty much, "ho-hum, naaaa, we don't really jack with that anymore, too much time and work involved, blah, blah, blah." I couldn't believe my ears! As they sat around talking at one of the meetings, I was the only one talking about radio and they seemed annoyed as they talked about work, divorces, kid problems, etc! Again, I couldn't believe it. I was wondering why the hell they had a club in the first place.
Anyway, thank God for the internet as it appears that it will be my educational source, along with a huge stack of books from ARRL, in being my "Elmer." As some of these old-timers, losers and quiters look at the internet as the death of Ham Radio, I look at it, unfortunately, as the best and only source for getting into, learning about and being involved with the best hobby one can have in the home. Some people don't get it, they're not enthused anymore...so they give up...while discouraging others. Sad.
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by N8NOE on August 5, 2005
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I Personally have Elmered 4 People (I think this is the SECRET) but of the 4, 2 are EXTRAS, 1 General, 1 Tech(no-Code).... The Tech is trying, but having a TON of trouble.. I got all these guy's interested in Radio, and from there just Helped, and answered Questions. If I didn't have an answer, WE BOTH learned something.. The Clubs in the Area are getting weak, and seems to be a lack of intrest, but it's summer also!.. Wish I could have got some of the Girls,Women,Females, Etc. interested, but the Group I'm around they weren't interested much and I guess thopught it was an "Ol' Boys Club"?..
ANSWER: Find Intresed people!.. Dont wait for the CLUB or anyone else!
OK, I'm done!... Someone Else need the Soap-Box now?..
Jeff
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It Takes a Clique
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by N5XM on August 5, 2005
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Some very interesting thoughts here, and I think the basic idea put forth makes a lot of sense. Sure, bad attitudes lurk everywhere, and some of these people seem to be so miserable it is doubtful anything could make them happy for more than about two minutes.
The best thing about my wonderful Elmer was that he was and is an individual. I've said this here several times before, but I remain convinced that each of us is either part of the solution or part of the problem. The overall status of the hobby is the sum of the parts.
Do something even if it's wrong. Help a newbie with their CW. Help them with their pileup techniques. Teach them some of the subtle things about Ham Radio. Emphasize etiquitte in working the other guy or gal, regardless of whether microphone or key. Ham Radio is not practiced in a vacuum. None of us could have any fun if it weren't for the Ham on the other end. Sometimes smart people can be dorkish or boorish. We all resemble that remark from time to time. I cannot help but be reminded of the old adage to "be serious but don't take yourself too seriously".
All that being said, I remain positive about Amateur Radio. For me, it is still the best hobby in the world. Talk is cheap, however, so get up off that a** and DO SOMETHING! Just make sure it's something positive! I now step down from the soapbox with a bow and a tip of the n5 hat to all.
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by KI4FIA on August 5, 2005
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IMBACKHF Said: " I think that good Ham clubs in and of itself are better then the Elmering Clique Often times these so called Elmers are so set in their ways and so prejudicial against new ideas that it often is more detrimental for the newcomer to be associated with them. "
IMBACKHF, This might be true for your area, but my area (EastCentral Florida) its opposite. In our area we one organization who think�s Ham Radio is nothing more then 2 meter FM Emergency Communication and if you�re a ham who want�s to explore different aspects of ham radio you get the �Radio Shack Blank Stair� look from these guys.
It was this organization who offered a the testing session where I passed my test. When I asked a few of the members questions about HF, CW, Satellite, SSB VHF I was told �sorry we don�t do any of that around here, however please join and you too can pass NTSB traffic on our 2 meter repeater�. It was very discouraging as they offered ZERO help to a new ham, in fact I felt as if I received the �cold shoulder� from these people. With no thanks to them, in the 1 � years since passing the Tech/CW, then General I�ve logged over 1500 HF (99%CW), Satellite, SSB 2mtr (8 states confirmed) QSO�s and have VUCC on 6 mtrs.
Oh, almost forgot, when I took the Tech test at their testing session they seemed a bit upset when I said I wanted to take the CW test. They told me I didn�t need CW in order two work 2 meters.
My point is that not all elmers are bad and opinionated and not all clubs are the place to get help from.
George � KI4FIA � Daytona Beach, FL
http://www.MilAirComms.com
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by K3WVU on August 5, 2005
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KI4FIA,
You're correct, but don't bothering answering some of the posters on this forum. See my post above (8th down) and you'll see why.
73
Dwight
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by IMBACKHF on August 5, 2005
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KI4FIA -- your correct on that ... I also tink that allot of the Elmers try to focus on large HF rigs cause thats all they know... it takes allot more pateince and skill to work a satellite then 20 meters ..
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by WA6BFH on August 5, 2005
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KC2FTN, tell your teacher friends about the first time you bounce a signal off the moon to talk with someone on the other side of the Earth. Or maybe that you talked to an astronaut in space. If that does not impress them, maybe they are just apathetic about anything in life! Shoot, I still think it was great to briefly chat (QSO) with the king of Jordan.
73! John
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It Takes a Clique
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by KB7LYM on August 5, 2005
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Found in the Australian dictionary
Elmer’ing
Also known as the Dodo Bird ( a few left )
Meat eaters and scared away by strange noises.
Mostly by escaped Gas explosions from Hams ( also on the way out creatures }
This was reported by Grandpa Mossie Vinkelstein a Jewish Rabi now in the outback of Australia where he is making a research of the Aboriginal Hormons
Rabi Vinkelstein is 101 and still doing his daily ................... !!!
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RE: Clique Beetles
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by K4JSR on August 5, 2005
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If an Elmer drives a VW, does that make his car a
"Clique Beetle"?
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RE: Clique Beetles
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by WA6BFH on August 5, 2005
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I used to QSO with a mobile station Ham who drove a VW. He was using a Heathkit “6’er, which you may remember had a locking transmit lever switch.
He would excuse himself when he had to shift gears, throw the microphone down to the floor, and then later retrieve it by reeling in the cord with his free hand. It was an interesting process and manner to hold a QSO!
I do recall the characteristic sound of the VW engine, going through its rev’s as he changed gears. I don’t recall any clicking. Or, even any cliquing!
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It Takes a Clique
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by KG6RRQ on August 5, 2005
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Good post John. That really hit home with me.
So far, I've been licensed as a tech for almost two years now. My experience has so far been limited to using echolink and playing with an Icom portable that still has me a little baffled on how to program it properly.
Why?...Because I'm just not a handyman type nor an electronics whiz. However, I'm very interested in radio and getting on the air. To be honest, I don't know the first thing about building an antenna system. I would love to get more into the hobby, but need alot of help to be honest.
What is the best way to get someone to help? I do have a local club here that I need to join. Are members usually willing to help a new guy constuct a station etc? Is it considered an "amateur sin" to have an antenna or other equipment professionally installed?
Would appreciate any helpful insight. Anybody else out there like me?...Interested, but just not naturally gifted in electronics, antenna contstruction etc?
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by W5MJL on August 5, 2005
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People that want to learn, and those who show an eagerness to learn never have a problem finding someone that will help them. Most people don't want to learn, they just want to operate. No elmering will help them in any way, shape, or fashion.
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It Takes a Clique
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by W5AOX on August 5, 2005
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I don't think ham radio has lost its mystique, except to some of us who have somehow turned into old farts and have trouble getting excited about radio any more.
EVERY time I have demonstrated ham radio, it has generated enthusiasm and interest. I most recently demo'd ham radio (a couple months ago) by driving the RV over to my local church boy scout group and running a long piece of coax inside the meeting room from the homebrew screwdriver antenna on the RV and setting up my Icom 706 on a desk with a power supply. Just a rig and a mike. The scouts REALLY enjoyed it, and several said they'd "like to get into hamming someday when they had more time", etc. This, even though the only band providing any real contacts was 20 meters, and only stateside stations responding. I made a few contacts by calling CQ and announcing I was demonstrating ham radio to the Scouts, and then the young fellows all took a turn saying "Hi, My name is Etc,...." with the microphone in hand.
Did any of these guys run out and start studying for their ham tickets? Not yet, that I know of. But it certainly was intriguing and interesting to them.
If I took the TIME to get MORE involved in such demonstrations, it WOULD result in at least a few more people getting ham tickets. TIME is the killer of all our good intentions, however. None of us seem to have much of it any more.
One thing a few of us locally have talked about is setting up demonstration stations at our local HAMFESTS. Many people coming to these events, even experienced hams, have NOT ever seen PSK31, WSJT, packet, APRS, satellites, etc, in action. Such demos of YOUR particular skill or interest would make any hamfest more interesting even to ME, another old tired fart.
As others have posted, just "talking" about subjects is of limited value compared to Hands On experience.
One of MY early "Elmer" demonstrations will never be forgotten: The first time I ever saw Ham Radio in "real life", when a local Baptist preacher had me over to his shack and warmed up his Heathkit DX-40 transmitter and Hallicrafters S-40B receiver and showed me how he could talk halfway across the country on 75 meter AM! (Even though, as I recall, it sounded a lot like Channel 19 CB does today, squeals, noise, heterodynes... faint voices fading in and out...) But I have been HOOKED ever since. Even if I am getting old and tired.
The radio club that talks about anything related to RADIO or electronics is rare indeed. I've had much more pleasant and memorable experiences from the occasional ham who took a few moments, sometimes even an hour or so, to work with me or show me how to do something.
Jim W5AOX
(ex Novice, Ex Conditional, Ex Advanced, and NO, I don't miss the days of grizzled crew-cut FCC examiners who acted like military drill sergeants)
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by WA1RNE on August 5, 2005
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Vito;
Your synopsis of "AM", Attila the Monarch" was priceless.
Now then, "Notone", where do you get off, spouting off as such about proper English and such when you haven't earned your parlimentary right to do so??
Experts of the eHam "Elmer-mater" fraternity are required to have an absolute impecable record before sighting such blasphemy.
That is, to be accepted into the "Clique", you MUST present YOUR credentials first, also known as a call sign.........
TTFN.......
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It Takes a Clique
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by K1CJS on August 6, 2005
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It might take a clique, then again.........
I was approached by a science teacher at a local middle school to help set up a school radio station and teach classes so the kids could get their ham licenses. I went to my local club and asked for help--I admitted I didn't have all the knowledge needed for what the school and the teacher wanted to do--VHF, HF, satellite, etc.--and the club 'clique' took on the challenge.
I asked to be kept in the loop so I could assist them and also learn more myself, but at the start of the school year when the program began, I found myself cut out entirely. While trying to get back in I found out the teacher and the school was told by the 'clique' not to have anything to do with me--that I couldn't help because I didn't know the 'proper' way to do things. In other words, I wasn't part of the clique.
I'm not saying you're wrong, John, but I think these cliques in the clubs are a bad thing to begin with. Using them to try to bring more people into the hobby may work well on one hand, but not on another, depending on the attitude of the clique itself.
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by W6TH on August 6, 2005
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.
Can you imagine how Armstrong and Telsa felt being denied .
I said it before and will say it again: Clubs control the membership. Some do it by force, like any government which is also a clique..Ours is a Cartel; A combination of independent business organizations formed to regulate production, pricing, and marketing of goods by the members.
I believe that John and I with our knowledge of what would be of demand, that John and I could easily handle the situation of teaching; of course there will be objection and isn't this a natural cause?
Even so, life must go on.
.:
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RE: Hams like WH6NY killed elmering
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by K7VO on August 6, 2005
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KC5FOG wrote:
"The advanced and extras continue to have disdain and hate for the no-code techs "
Please don't paint all Extra Class licensees with the same broad brush. Some of us have been speaking up against elitism and divisiveness within the ham ranks for a long time. A small minority of long time hams act this way, not most of us.
73,
Caity
K7VO
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RE: Hams like WH6NY killed elmering
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by WA6BFH on August 6, 2005
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Yes, also for KC6FOG,
We know the key to the country club and the executive bathroom will be changing hands soon!
That is the reason we have always taken it to be a serious concern in passing on our cherished avocation and it’s 23,471 MHz of spectrum to the best and the brightest -- people who will appreciate it!
Hi Caity! How ya been do'in?
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RE: Hams like WH6NY killed elmering
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by W6TH on August 6, 2005
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.
Remember this and never forget:
The real hams were:
Before The Year of December 7, 1941.
You after that year are living on the workmanship of the real hams.
Don't spoil your free grants and try real hard to preserve what has been donated to you.
My call is not a vanity call and I worship the day I passed my Amateur testing along with the real hams.
CW forever, W6TH the non-vanity call, no Elmers and a self taught radio Amateur.
.:
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RE: Hams like WH6NY killed elmering
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by W6TH on August 6, 2005
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.
Remember this and never forget:
The real hams were:
Before The Year of December 7, 1941.
You after that year are living on the workmanship of the real hams.
Don't spoil your free grants and try real hard to preserve what has been donated to you.
My call is not a vanity call and I worship the day I passed my Amateur testing along with the real hams.
CW forever, W6TH the non-vanity call, no Elmers and a self taught radio Amateur.
.:
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RE: Hams like WH6NY killed elmering
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by K8MHZ on August 6, 2005
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KG6RRQ writes:
"What is the best way to get someone to help? I do have a local club here that I need to join. Are members usually willing to help a new guy construct a station etc? Is it considered an "amateur sin" to have an antenna or other equipment professionally installed?
Would appreciate any helpful insight. Anybody else out there like me?...Interested, but just not naturally gifted in electronics, antenna construction etc?"
My opinion? Whatever it takes to get on the air, dude.
I have found that if you are interested in a subject and have sufficient motivation, you will become, over time, proficient in that subject.
As for your antenna question, "amateur sins" are in the eyes of the beholders. I will tell you that putting up your own antenna is pretty rewarding. I would not hold it against you, however, to take the quick route and hire an antenna guy (yuk yuk) to get you on the air.
As for the club, ours is made of hams that are very willing to help. Your mileage may vary.
If there are any questions I can answer you via e-mail, give me a post. Also, I do have EchoLink access and could set up a schedule with you to yak a bit about the hobby.
My e-mail address is k8mhz@k8mhz.com. Please join us on the Hamsexy net on Wednesday nights at 9pm Michigan time on EchoLink Conference 256919. With 40+ check ins each week we don't have much time but to say HI and get in a few words about the topic for the week, but at least you get to join scores of hams from both the States and Canada using one of our latest toys, EchoLink. Dave, VE7LTD, the inventor of IRLP even linked IRLP to the conference. You IRLP folks can join us on node 9008.
You said you are into EchoLink, so here (the EchoLink/IRLP bridge) is what hams can do when they are turned loose with technology. You should see what they do with HF, and some of their exotic VHF/UHF tricks. And, take all their toys away, and the 'die hard' hams (yeah, I'm one) can still talk using CW.
The net on EchoLink was meant just to wet your whistle. Ham radio is so vast in its realm that you will be amazed to see what some of the ops are doing with it. On all the bands.
Maybe two years late, but welcome to the most fascinating of hobbies, ham radio. If I can help in any way, give me a yell.
73,
Mark K8MHZ
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by K8MHZ on August 6, 2005
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Hamwannabe:
Need help with something?
E-mail me. k8mhz@k8mhz.com
If I can help you enjoy the hobby anywhere near as much as I do, I would be happy to do just that.
Welcome to the greatest hobby in the world.
73,
Mark K8MHZ
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by K8MHZ on August 6, 2005
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KG6RRQ writes:
"What is the best way to get someone to help? I do have a local club here that I need to join. Are members usually willing to help a new guy construct a station etc? Is it considered an "amateur sin" to have an antenna or other equipment professionally installed?
Would appreciate any helpful insight. Anybody else out there like me?...Interested, but just not naturally gifted in electronics, antenna construction etc?"
My opinion? Whatever it takes to get on the air, dude.
I have found that if you are interested in a subject and have sufficient motivation, you will become, over time, proficient in that subject.
As for your antenna question, "amateur sins" are in the eyes of the beholders. I will tell you that putting up your own antenna is pretty rewarding. I would not hold it against you, however, to take the quick route and hire an antenna guy (yuk yuk) to get you on the air.
As for the club, ours is made of hams that are very willing to help. Your mileage may vary.
If there are any questions I can answer you via e-mail, give me a post. Also, I do have EchoLink access and could set up a schedule with you to yak a bit about the hobby.
My e-mail address is k8mhz@k8mhz.com. Please join us on the Hamsexy net on Wednesday nights at 9pm Michigan time on EchoLink Conference 256919. With 40+ check ins each week we don't have much time but to say HI and get in a few words about the topic for the week, but at least you get to join scores of hams from both the States and Canada using one of our latest toys, EchoLink. Dave, VE7LTD, the inventor of IRLP even linked IRLP to the conference. You IRLP folks can join us on node 9008.
You said you are into EchoLink, so here (the EchoLink/IRLP bridge) is what hams can do when they are turned loose with technology. You should see what they do with HF, and some of their exotic VHF/UHF tricks. And, take all their toys away, and the 'die hard' hams (yeah, I'm one) can still talk using CW.
The net on EchoLink was meant just to wet your whistle. Ham radio is so vast in its realm that you will be amazed to see what some of the ops are doing with it. On all the bands.
Maybe two years late, but welcome to the most fascinating of hobbies, ham radio. If I can help in any way, give me a yell.
73,
Mark K8MHZ
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RE: Hams like WH6NY killed elmering
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by K4JF on August 7, 2005
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<The advanced and extra�s continue to have disdain and hate for the no-code techs >
BRAVO-SIERRA!!! I've been an Extra for a few years, and have helped quite a few get their NCT tickets (I'm also a VE). If you have a ham license you're a ham. Period! And every Advanced and Extra I know is of the same opinion.
Don't paint all of us with that extremely narrow brush you found somewhere (I know not where).
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by KG6RRQ on August 7, 2005
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Mark:
Thank you very much. I'll definitely join in on your echolink group in the near future. I appreciate the offer of assistance. Hope I don't sound too pathetic lol.
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It Takes a Clique
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by KE7CFA on August 7, 2005
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I have found that the HRO's I have met, to be helpful and friendly. However, the clubs (so far) I have seen are disappointing. ARES/RACES seems to be running them. It's as if they are their private recruiting ground. If it isn't of any use to ARES/RACES, then it's of no value.
ARES/RACES seems to have carved themselves quite the little empire, out of Ham Radio.
I have zero interest in being a parade parking lot/traffic control attendant, or making my personal gear/property available to marathon (moron) runners and bicyclists who aren't smart enough to get out of the rain. B-o-r-i-n-g.
I'll just keep slogging along my own way.
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by K8MHZ on August 7, 2005
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KG6RRQ,
I am sure you will sound just fine. Feel free to e-mail me with any questions you may not want to pose ofver the air.
KE7CFA,
Not all clubs are like that. Our club has antenna building sessions, licensing classes, fish and steak frys, open shack nights, operates out of a submarine for Museum Ships on the Air and all sorts of just plain fun stuff going on.
You may try to approach your club and offer to spearhead such an event. Oftentimes the reliance on others solely for entertainment results in boredom. And, others may share your views and join up with you to make your club fun again. All the above, of course, is IMHO.
73,
Mark K8MHZ
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by K8MHZ on August 7, 2005
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Oh,
And I forgot the funnest thing of all...
FOX HUNTS!!!
73,
Mark K8MHZ
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by WA6BFH on August 7, 2005
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T-hunting skills can be a good thing!
Maybe moreso in the LA basin; good otherwise just for fun!
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by KC0SHZ on August 7, 2005
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>>ARES/RACES seems to have carved themselves quite the little empire, out of Ham Radio.
I have zero interest in being a parade parking lot/traffic control attendant, or making my personal gear/property available to marathon (moron) runners and bicyclists who aren't smart enough to get out of the rain. B-o-r-i-n-g. <<
To each his own. I like the ARES stuff. I feel that I have been given the privilege of using the public airwaves to use as my hobby. I feel that I should give back to the community.
Helping charities raise money by providing a service that to us may seem basic and very elementary is often a critical link that would have resulted in failure of the event without us.
The club I belong to is involved in ARES, but that isn't what is killing it. Its a combination of the old gaurd not being willing to let go of the true reins of power. (I am more that welcome to carry stuff, errect stuff, take down stuff. I am more that welcome to stay out of anything that looks like it might actually be interesting, or that would lead to some position of influence. And yet the same people whine about the lack of people to help them.)
As a nocode tech, I can say that no one has dumped on me in public, but that the sentiment that I am not good enough or am somehow flawed as a human being is always there in less public venues.
Clubs could be the source of elmers in terms of radios and of ARES type stuff, but without the sense that all are welcome and that the club exists to benefit the hobby and the community rather than the egos of some ancient AE.
We know the kind. They think that anyone who didn't start out in radio by mining his own mica for the capacitors and operating a coal-fired generator for a watt of output, who didn't learn CW from Morse himself, and would couldn't correct Marconi on some technical detail shouldn't be allowed to talk in public.
Elmers are a good relationship to have, but finding one is difficult. A good club would make that easier.
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by KC0SHZ on August 7, 2005
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>>ARES/RACES seems to have carved themselves quite the little empire, out of Ham Radio.
I have zero interest in being a parade parking lot/traffic control attendant, or making my personal gear/property available to marathon (moron) runners and bicyclists who aren't smart enough to get out of the rain. B-o-r-i-n-g. <<
To each his own. I like the ARES stuff. I feel that I have been given the privilege of using the public airwaves to use as my hobby. I feel that I should give back to the community.
Helping charities raise money by providing a service that to us may seem basic and very elementary is often a critical link that would have resulted in failure of the event without us.
The club I belong to is involved in ARES, but that isn't what is killing it. Its a combination of the old gaurd not being willing to let go of the true reins of power. (I am more that welcome to carry stuff, errect stuff, take down stuff. I am more that welcome to stay out of anything that looks like it might actually be interesting, or that would lead to some position of influence. And yet the same people whine about the lack of people to help them.)
As a nocode tech, I can say that no one has dumped on me in public, but that the sentiment that I am not good enough or am somehow flawed as a human being is always there in less public venues.
Clubs could be the source of elmers in terms of radios and of ARES type stuff, but without the sense that all are welcome and that the club exists to benefit the hobby and the community rather than the egos of some ancient AE.
We know the kind. They think that anyone who didn't start out in radio by mining his own mica for the capacitors and operating a coal-fired generator for a watt of output, who didn't learn CW from Morse himself, and would couldn't correct Marconi on some technical detail shouldn't be allowed to talk in public.
Elmers are a good relationship to have, but finding one is difficult. A good club would make that easier.
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by KC0SHZ on August 7, 2005
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>>ARES/RACES seems to have carved themselves quite the little empire, out of Ham Radio.
I have zero interest in being a parade parking lot/traffic control attendant, or making my personal gear/property available to marathon (moron) runners and bicyclists who aren't smart enough to get out of the rain. B-o-r-i-n-g. <<
To each his own. I like the ARES stuff. I feel that I have been given the privilege of using the public airwaves to use as my hobby. I feel that I should give back to the community.
Helping charities raise money by providing a service that to us may seem basic and very elementary is often a critical link that would have resulted in failure of the event without us.
The club I belong to is involved in ARES, but that isn't what is killing it. Its a combination of the old gaurd not being willing to let go of the true reins of power. (I am more that welcome to carry stuff, errect stuff, take down stuff. I am more that welcome to stay out of anything that looks like it might actually be interesting, or that would lead to some position of influence. And yet the same people whine about the lack of people to help them.)
As a nocode tech, I can say that no one has dumped on me in public, but that the sentiment that I am not good enough or am somehow flawed as a human being is always there in less public venues.
Clubs could be the source of elmers in terms of radios and of ARES type stuff, but without the sense that all are welcome and that the club exists to benefit the hobby and the community rather than the egos of some ancient AE.
We know the kind. They think that anyone who didn't start out in radio by mining his own mica for the capacitors and operating a coal-fired generator for a watt of output, who didn't learn CW from Morse himself, and would couldn't correct Marconi on some technical detail shouldn't be allowed to talk in public.
Elmers are a good relationship to have, but finding one is difficult. A good club would make that easier.
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by WA6BFH on August 7, 2005
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KC0SHZ, why not turn those insights inward?
Offer to do a “talk” or presentation at a future club meeting. Perhaps you could title it, “Insight into Ham Club Activities”. That is just a basic suggestion. You choose a title that will seem appealing.
Knock these guys’ socks off! Get them thinking!
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by KC9AGG on August 7, 2005
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"Would appreciate any helpful insight. Anybody else out there like me?...Interested, but just not naturally gifted in electronics, antenna contstruction etc?"
read, read , read, and then ask an experienced ham...in that respect, they are all elmers!!! thanks to all my elmers!! have fun 73 , 99s.
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It Takes a Clique
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by K9NYO on August 8, 2005
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I think ham radio is still interesting to outsiders, but few people know about or care about HF or shortwave radio. Sure, that's what attracted me to ham radio....listening to my dad call CQ and hearing the exotic places coming back to him
But I really think some of the things that attract people these days are further up the dial. I just read on one of the ham sites about a group from Tennessee that's sending up an 802.11b device on a balloon along with APRS. That's pretty damn cool. Whenever I see someone demonstrating amateur television (fast scan), that's pretty damn cool. Those guys out in Virginia aiming way-up-there GHz dishes at each other is pretty damn cool.
Talk to your average engineering student or information technology professional and ask them what they think is pretty damn cool...you're going to hear some of the above. These are the people of today that would be ham radio operators...........................................................................................................if we would just let them know about these other things that interest them. They don't care about repeaters (nor do most hams if you listen to the inactivity) or shortwave.
And just to prevent the flamers: this has nothing to do with the Internet and I'm not going to suggest IRLP, Echolink or any of that. So don't respond with that crap and nonsense...troll somewhere else.
We're talking radio....point to point communication-- that can be analog or digital. People think SSTV is cool when you show them there's no Internet in between. Send an e-mail to someone (or an APRS message) from the middle of nowhere in a field where there's no cellphone service--people think that's cool.
Sell the product that people want to buy. And if you don't like that product, maybe you shouldn't be selling. You can go ahead and keep using the other and older products...nobody's telling you not to.
I admire the hell out of hams before my time, but there's no possible way I'm going to be one of you 1 by 2's--that's been made clear to me for 20 years. So I'm going to make the best I can of the hobby today. And I'm going to avoid telling the "up hill both ways to school" stories when I'm a crotchety old man.
I'm never going to fight in a war like WWII and I'll likely never invent something as great and life-changing as the transistor, but don't think I don't cry when a veteran dies or take these actions for granted. Eventually people stop saying "thanks" and move on, only remembering these great achievements on a holiday or when the news brings it up. But we carry that appreciation around in our hearts and we pass it on to our kids.
So cut out the "I'm better than you" crap--we make do with what we've got or we try and change it. If we can't change it, then hopefully we've got the wisdom to carry on the best we can.
It doesn't take a clique...it takes an attitude readjustment.
73, K9NYO
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by N0TONE on August 8, 2005
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WA1RNE, thank you for your comments. Vito's characterization of me was interesting and mainly on target. Yours was off-base as Vito's was more complimentary than not.
I do beg forgiveness for my unusually harsh critique of WA6BFH's punctuation. However, Mr. Wendt has been such an ardent advocate of learning, that I felt it was an opportune time to give him the opportunity to do some. I believe one of the better ways to teach is by example, and he could turn from a mere spouter of information to one who follows his own advice.
My own grammar is slipping away, but I think I do rather well for my years.
I believe the message has been repeated several times now. It is the one on one where the passing of the torch takes place, and a "clique" is a very dangerous way to attempt to create those one on one relationships.
AM
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It Takes a Clique
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by 1EMMGR on August 8, 2005
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“It Takes A Clique” offers one way to reach out to those who in the community may have a inkling to operate amateur radio and from the response to his comments there are certainly other ways. I represent Emergency Management and the smaller communities need each and every one of our licensed Hams. We really need them every day rather than when the occasional emergency or disaster that may spring up. The trouble is the Ham community is just like many other volunteers their numbers are dwindling.
I personally praise every effort to entice younger and older people into investigating the amateur radio scene, and tie it into the expanding electronic age. Public Officials like my self need to work more as well to encourage the operators to participate in activities that help promote amateur operators.
We have many opportunities if we would just accomplish a little planning within the emergency response community. Just because we have some success in expanding our public safety radio communications is not a reason to not use amateur operators in a functional communication problem with each and every major response.
Too often we set and wait for the opportunity to get amateurs together to conduct an emergency operations exercise, rather than conducting smaller exercises to attract the amateurs. In my experiences there are many volunteers looking for an opportunity to participate in an active disaster exercise program. It hones their skills whether they are old Hams or New Hams.
Talk to your local Emergency Manger I’ll bet he or she may have a few ideas. I have my Hams joining me in our Fair Booth this year and maybe we can find a few people with that inkling I mentioned. Good luck to all Hams and we appreciate all your efforts to support the emergency service communications.
Sam Lorenz
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by WA6BFH on August 9, 2005
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I think that there is a truly fundamental difference in utilizing Ham radio for emergency communication, as opposed to using it for that sense of satisfaction that comes from making a contact with radio equipment you have built, or the satisfaction of designing a Ham station in all its aspects and capabilities.
I spent six years as a the RACES officer for one of our California counties. The troubles and difficulties that plagued me were the limitations posed by older volunteers that only would drive a certain distance from their homes, and then would stay with an emergency situation for no more than about one hour. There was another aspect that often came to the fore, and that was from an excess of ego. Ego’s were really not needed at a wild fire camp, or anywhere else in these situations.
I think that Ham radio is best done as a pursuit of self gratification. For those that have been so conditioned and programmed that they have come to think that one must be selfless in all pursuits, perhaps this sounds ghastly. I only know that at any time I have made an exciting contact or had a truly wonderful QSO with another station, that was satisfying. I have enjoyed imparting that possibility to others, and been rewarded when they excitedly came to me to tell me of the exciting contact that they had just made.
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by W1CAL on August 9, 2005
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John just hit the nail right on the head - EGO's!
You put more than 2 hams in the same room and you'll never get them to all agree on anything! Why, because their EGO's get in the way!
I enjoyed ham radio for a brief time but the EGO's and Politics absolutely ruin this hobby.
Oh by the way, politics is the other big problem!
I have to accept politics in government, and it cannot be avoided in the workplace either, but I'll be damned if I'm going to tolerate politics in my leisure activities!
And here's the bottom line, you can justify your radio activities any way you want, but it is nothing more than a leisure activity!
Were it not leisure, it would not be amateur!
Now for all you pre December 7th 1941 "Real Hams", it's time to change your diaper!
Have a ball whining & squabbling!
Chris
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by W5MJL on August 9, 2005
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Chris W1CAL
Politics is part of life, but you don't have to play politics in amateur radio. If you have clubs, or organizations that play politics then just make new friends on the radio. Get your upgrade, move to hf, and meet the rest of the world that could care less about your local issues.
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by WA6BFH on August 9, 2005
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I would agree that it is pretty difficult to avoid politics in anything, and in particular Ham radio!
We can’t afford to sit back and ignore the politics involved. We were ceded almost 24,000 MHz of radio spectrum. It was not given to us, it was put up in trust. That trust stems from the days when just about any electronic device or product was invented or developed by Hams. How many Ham’s are there doing this these days?
Actually there are probably quite a few but, how many are before the public? When was the last time you heard of a milestone event in radio electronics involving a given Ham. When was a notable discovery in physics attributed to a Ham? Can you make a list of such Hams? What era did they come from?
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by N0TONE on August 9, 2005
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1EMMGR wrote:
"I represent Emergency Management and the smaller communities need each and every one of our licensed Hams. We really need them every day rather than when the occasional emergency or disaster that may spring up. The trouble is the Ham community is just like many other volunteers their numbers are dwindling."
Please explain just why you need them every day. To what use do you put them today, tomorrow, and the next day? I am surprised to read this and stand ready to be educated. I may well change my mind about what I think about the emergency preparedness aspect.
Also, regarding the last sentence, please describe what you and your organization are doing to make hams desire to work with your organization.
AM
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by W5ESE on August 10, 2005
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> That trust stems from the days when just about any
> electronic device or product was invented or
> developed by Hams. How many Ham�s are there doing
> this these days?
Maybe more than you think.
Read about the new mixer design by Dan Tayloe, N7VE,
which will appear in the Norcal 2030 CW transceiver
kit.
http://www.qslnet.de/member/df7tv/nc2030_pres_2004_10.pdf
Scott
W5ESE
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by WA6BFH on August 10, 2005
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Well, that’s nice but, the point of the article was to put Ham radio before the public in compelling and interesting ways!
Since I myself would only consider this radio as an I.F., and a rather low frequency I.F. at that, and also an I.F. of restricted mode and bandpass -- it does not even interest or excite me. I doubt that the greater lay public will find it compelling to the point where they “just have to go out and get one!” Perhaps I’m wrong, when is he scheduled to appear with it on Jay Leno?
Please understand, I’m not besmirching the guys effort or product, I’m besmirching your lack of understanding and appreciation as to what the article was about!
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by W6TH on August 10, 2005
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.
W1CAL mentioned this;
Now for all you pre December 7th 1941 "Real Hams", it's time to change your diaper!
Have a ball whining & squabbling!
------------------------------------------------------
Only a Technician class would make such a remark as this.
I can see that you are not a member of the Free State Project or are even in favor of such.
You disagree with the statement of;"Real Hams", yet you are proudly displaying and enjoying the call letters of the "real Ham" issued back in the thirties, the real ham days.
Your thoughts you display, you should be ashamed of, you a..hat.
.:
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by W1CAL on August 12, 2005
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RE: It Takes a Clique Reply
by W6TH on August 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
.
W1CAL mentioned this;
Now for all you pre December 7th 1941 "Real Hams", it's time to change your diaper!
Have a ball whining & squabbling!
------------------------------------------------------
Only a Technician class would make such a remark as this.
I can see that you are not a member of the Free State Project or are even in favor of such.
You disagree with the statement of;"Real Hams", yet you are proudly displaying and enjoying the call letters of the "real Ham" issued back in the thirties, the real ham days.
Your thoughts you display, you should be ashamed of, you a..hat.
_______________________________________________________
This "Holyier that Thou" and "I'm a real ham 'cause I've been around since before Pearl Harbor Day" is exactly why I'm no longer active as a ham. I'm sure this thought delights W6TH to no end. He may even think he's won something since someone he considers a lid is out of the hobby. Please Vito, let me really make your day. Reading this thread has convinced me to sell all my radio gear on eBay by the end of the year. I mean really, why would I want to spend perfectly good money to be able to communicate with people like W6TH, I don't know what I was thinking!
I have far better things to do with my time and money.
Now Vito might just think he has won some sort of battle or something, but the truth is I'm clearly the winner here. My back yard will look nice without antennas up in the air, The room I used as a shack can certainly be put to better use, and most importantly, my wife will be happy to see me no longer get aggravated by the class of reprobates that think they own ham radio. Good riddence.
But before I go perhaps someone can enlighten me as to the link between Real Ham Radio Operators and Pearl Harbor Day??? Sorry, but I just can't seem to make that connection.
So if you watch eBay over the next few weeks you will see a couple of rather rare rigs listed such as a museum quality FT-625, not to mention a couple of FT-650's I'll be selling as well. Probably the finest 6 meter rig ever produced.
It's been real & it's been nice, but it hasn't been real nice.
Go thee forth and multiply!
Chris
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RE: It Takes a Clique
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by N0TONE on August 12, 2005
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W1CAL wrote:
>>>This "Holyier that Thou" and "I'm a real ham 'cause I've been around since before Pearl Harbor Day" is exactly why I'm no longer active as a ham.<<<
In other words, you are allowing someone else to control your behavior. By doing so, of course, you blend in with the herd, losing some of your identity.
>>>I'm sure this thought delights W6TH to no end. He may even think he's won something since someone he considers a lid is out of the hobby. Please Vito, let me really make your day. Reading this thread has convinced me to sell all my radio gear on eBay by the end of the year. I mean really, why would I want to spend perfectly good money to be able to communicate with people like W6TH, I don't know what I was thinking!<<<
Good choice. Far better to use the computer equipment that you spent hard-earned money on to communicate with Vito, such as you are doing right now.
>>>I have far better things to do with my time and money.<<<
Please enlighten us.
>>>Now Vito might just think he has won some sort of battle or something, but the truth is I'm clearly the winner here. My back yard will look nice without antennas up in the air, The room I used as a shack can certainly be put to better use,<<<
Ah yes, you can once again, resume your life as an identical mate to all others in your CC&R controlled neighborhood, becoming exactly the person that society has programmed you to be. Including the anger and internet.
>>>and most importantly, my wife will be happy to see me no longer get aggravated by the class of reprobates that think they own ham radio.<<<
Again, you are confessing that you have given over control of your being to others. A loss of personal identity for certain.
>>> Good riddence.<<<
With this comment I disagree. I believe the ranks of ham radio will be diminished by your absense. We need more hams whose very soul has been crafted by Madison Avenue, or we'll never learn how to present a good face to them.
>>>But before I go perhaps someone can enlighten me as to the link between Real Ham Radio Operators and Pearl Harbor Day??? Sorry, but I just can't seem to make that connection.<<<
I agree on this point. I do not see the connection, either.
>>>So if you watch eBay over the next few weeks you will see a couple of rather rare rigs listed such as a museum quality FT-625, not to mention a couple of FT-650's I'll be selling as well. Probably the finest 6 meter rig ever produced.<<<
But not in line with your neighborhood CC&R, so you are obeying them and abandoning it. You will most assuredly get along with the neighbors better. Do you also plan to purchase the same make and model of car, and watch the same TV shows?
>>>It's been real & it's been nice, but it hasn't been real nice.<<<
"Real Nice" is usually used adjectively to refer to the status quo, which is by definition a vacuum for learning.
>>>Go thee forth and multiply!<<<
Based on the persona you have represented as yourself, I believe you have that particular objective covered thoroughly.
>>>Chris<<<
AM
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It Takes a Clique
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by KD5FEN on August 24, 2005
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I am new to the Amatuer world of radio. In 1999 at 58 I got my Tech license. I have appreciated the long years that the backbone of Ham's have been keeping the hobby going. These folks are true Hams, they do not take no for worse codes. Today, these wonderfull people are becoming fewer and fewer. The hobby has changed so much. Most of the newer Hams are being raised in an entirely different world. We have computers and very technical radios and etc. The desire for morse code has been surpassed by so many different issues. The popularity has slowed down. If a move could be created that would make learning morse code popular again might save it. The idea today that you must learn code really will not make it. I have known many senior hams who cw more than even thinking about phone. They do not understand why the newer hams do no want to participate with cw. I for one would like to see less expensive radios coming out in all freq's. Somehow, I do not think this will happen. All in all, the tradition of the past will not succeed if interest can not be found to make it popular again. I am sorry for this. Thanks for this forum, I am new here and am looking forward to reading these articles.
-73
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