License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
from
Ian Abel, G3ZHI
on
August 20, 2005
View comments about this article!
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
Deregulation = Death of Amateur Radio in 5 Years! You do the math!
Imagine a country where the "friendly" radio administrator says, "I'm feeling generous you can have your amateur radio license for free, and tell you what, for life as well."
Two years later the friendly administrator says, "Actually this license for free is expensive to run -- no more licenses are required; anyone can operate without a license."
A little later the not so friendly regulator says, "These amateur radio operators cause all sort of interfere problems and someone else wants to buy their bit of the spectrum. Let's ban amateur radio altogether and sell their spectrum!"
Couldn't happen here could it? It could!
So back the RSGB in the protection of amateur radio from any form of deregulation. Join the RSGB.
You can view the RSGB advertisement at:
http://www.ukirlp.co.uk/g3zhi/rsgb_advert.jpg
73 Ian G3ZHI
http://www.qsl.net/g3zhi - many ham radio links
http://www.ukirlp.co.uk
G4NJI IRLP 5200 Echolink 135909
Rotherham simplex 145.2875mhz
Skype g3zhiian
VoiP 642109
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
|
License for Life in Norway
|
|
|
by LA6UIA on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
We have just got licence for life in Norway. Not free. A new licence costs 2000 NOK (approx 300 USD). There was previously an annual fee (I think 20 USD) collected from Norway's 6000 hams. I guess the motivation for the change is to reduce admin costs, which makes sense.
In my opinion, the RSGB's worries are far-fetched. It will not be at the discretion of a single nation to deregulate the HF spectrum. Reducing the authorities' administrative costs in connection with ham radio is not likely to be to our disadvantage.
Yours sincerely,
LA6UIA Anders
|
| |
|
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by KG4RUL on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
The Sky Is Falling! The Sky Is Falling? Wait, that was just a cobweb.
Perhaps it is time for the RSGB to take up a different hobby like, Camilla Bashing?
Dennis KG4RUL
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by K0BG on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I beginning to wonder about the leadership of some of our "father" organizations. Either people are misquoting their editorials, or there is something to all of the "ban amateur radio", or "amateur radio is dying", or perhaps "all of this rot is being driven by the manufacturers". Personally, I think it's time to remind ourselves that Chicken Little is just a nursery rhyme.
It also reminds me of the George Burns, John Denver movie, "Oh God". The real theme of that movie was "Do Good". If we'd do more of this (good deeds in other words), we wouldn't be so worried about what the nay-sayers utter up.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
|
| |
|
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by N4ZOU on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
The problem associated with lessoning of technical requirements of any license of any type and national associations involved with the service comes when the new and lower qualified persons who would not normally put fourth a effort to obtain the technically challenging license start applying and obtaining these low standard licenses. These persons simply do not support local or national associations. Examples of this are the ARRL and RSGB. As the technical requirements have been lowered so has the number of paying members of these associations. Look at the results in your local club. How many members do you have that actually show up for meetings or events? How many show up to help out at the clubs repeater site? Do you still operate field day? Sure, you have a few people show up and everyone that shows up has a higher technical level of expertise than the "typical" club member that put fourth the minimum effort to obtain a license. Not only do these individuals put fourth a minimal effort they typically cause problems as well. They only show up to "vote down" something that they would have problems participating in due to their "minimal effort" attitude. Pretty soon even the people that work hard to support the national and local efforts get tired of the minimalist attitudes and quit. Amateur radio is in an uncontrouble downward spin and it's only a mater of time before it hits the ground. Just look at CB radio here in the U.S.A. as a prime example. When a license was required and rules were enforced it was a respectable service. Today it's just a "toy".
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by ARRLFAN on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
N4ZOU --
to take your point one step further --
Movies were the death of ham radio...
11 Meters use to require a license. It was part of the ham band.
The movie SMOKEY AND THE BANDIT came out and over 2.7 million CB radios were sold that year alone. That was the beginning of the death of Ham radio
The CB radio went the way of present day GMRS radio that requires a license but 95% of the users don't have or don't care.
So if it hadn't been for the movie industry we would still own 11 meters.
So lets ban all movies.
Oh wait -- we will also have to ban the internet since people use that for instant messaging instead of packet radio, and ban cellphones since they were the death of HTs...
I'll start the petition.
LOL
|
| |
|
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by WA1RNE on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Ian;
Other than this "doom and gloom" advertisment, has the RSGB produced any documented evidence that substantiates their predictions?
Has the UK actually lost any amateur spectrum that was being occupied and used by amateurs on a daily basis??
As you've seen from coming from this end of the pond, the ARRL is fighting BPL, but they also advertise similar doom and gloom about our bands. Other than BPL, the only real gloom we've faced in the last 10 years has been the possibility of loosing sections of 40 meters to the SW broadcasters, but even with these "herculean efforts" (?) we are still being pummeled with 60 over S9 interference daily.
Chris, WA1RNE
|
| |
|
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by WPE9JRL on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Great Britain: A country where almost everyone's on the dole, receiving something for free in one form or another. You deserve this new new licensing structure. Good luck.
|
| |
|
England, the Mother Country
|
|
|
by KZ1X on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Can't you complain to the Queen or something?
I know you didn't VOTE for her, but, she seems sensible enough, at least compared to her kids and all.
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W6TH on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
RSGB, ARRL.
Did you forget the FCC, (Federal Candy Company)?
Both the RSGB and the ARRL, we have the proof, both have done nothing in the line of progress, but in the line of a claim which does not exist.
Every day is April fools day, right? Try the next generation.
.:
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by KX8N on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Can't you complain to the Queen or something? "
Ham: "Your Highness, I would like to discuss a matter of great importance concerning amateur radio."
Queen: "What is this "amateur radio" that you speak of?"
End of discussion with the queen...
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by JGALT on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I once made a speech on this subject. I addressed it to those that were being affected by ?the power of pull?, and that had the ability to deal with it. That was a long time ago, and for a while it seemed as if folks were listening. I am not so certain that they still care, or even know of this. It is also likely that today they don?t even have the capacity to read this speech!
They still do have the power to change this malaise that is creeping across the planet however, as long as they employ logic and certitude!
John Galt
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W6TH on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
Don't put your money into a government that is falling apart.
The system of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned by a centralized government that often controls the economy.
Invest wisely, in gold.
.:
|
| |
|
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by G0GQK on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
In response to the comments by Ian, G4NJI.I believe that your view of the future situation is a little extreme. Amateur radio doesn't stick like a fishbone in the throat of the Labour Party like foxhunting, and the Countryside Alliance.
And as for the quite unneccessary remarks sent in by WPE9JRL, whoever you are, everyone in the UK is not on the dole, and neither do we recieve anything for free.
The British people pay extremely high taxes to provide for those who have needs, we are an extremely civilised country and are the 4th or 5th largest economy in the world.
Also the majority of the people in Britain were forced to accept that Britain would support America's attack on Iraq. It has been a disaster and has cost the taxpayers of America over $200 BILLION, and for what ?
73, Mel
|
| |
|
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by M0AFJ on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Well said G0GQK, some of our colonial cousins seem to have huge chips on their shoulders. They want to remember who is always first in line to support the US.
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by G4AON on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I'm not sure I agree with Ian, as for the RSGB I'm a member but they certainly don't have their members interests at heart. Try contacting them! No e-mail addresses, phone numbers or postal addresses published for their senior elected representatives, a "national" rate phone number so anyone phoning pays several times the cost of a normal phone call (what's wrong with a normal phone number) for the HQ. E-mail "RSGB" over an advert in RadCom and it is handled by an advertising contractor who copies it to the advertiser. Contrast that with the ARRL (I'm also a member of ARRL), all the contact details you could wish for and what appears to be an organisation that cares for it's membership not just for it's advertisers.
Dave
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by WA6BFH on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Mel, is freedom a thing of such little value that you ask “for what”?
It may be a difficult thing to instill or install freedom in Iraq. We will just have to see how dedicated this countries own people are. They seemed pretty dedicated during their elections!
73! John
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by AA4PB on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I don't think a "license for life" necessarily has to lead to deregulation and no license at all - that's a stretch. No license or no test to ensure that operators know the rules and at least have an elemetary knowledge of radio would be a bad thing and I beleive that would lead to the end of ham radio as we know it. Here in the U.S. we have a 10 year license term but renewing it is a simple matter of going on the Internet and filling out a form. There is no fee and no test to take for renewal. I don't see that it is much different than a "license for life". The only benefit to the 10 year term is that if someone passes on then his call sign will be vacated within 10 years since he cannot renew. I suppose with a "license for life" you have to hold the call sign open for 100 years. I see it as strickly and administrative issue with little direct impact on amateur radio.
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by WA6BFH on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I don’t see this happening, since the FCC wants to spend less money and trouble with Amateur Radio but, for the betterment of Ham radio it would be a good thing if the license term was less than 10 years. Maybe 5 as it was, or an even shorter period. It would probably also be good for Hams to have to take a theory exam to renew. This could work both to help them retain concepts that they had already learned, as well as sharpen up new skills!
|
| |
|
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by M0VOC on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Nothings for free in the UK several years ago they issued a driving licence for life then they introduced a photo licence which you had to have when changing any details on the life licence and being a photo licence you have to renew the photo every ten years back to renewals in about twenty years.
As far as the RSGB is concerned their main concern is profit from Ham Radio licensing nothing more nothing less
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W6TH on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
G0GQK mentioned the following:
Also the majority of the people in Britain were forced to accept that Britain would support America's attack on Iraq. It has been a disaster and has cost the taxpayers of America over $200 BILLION, and for what ?
-------------------------------------------------------
It must be worth "it", when one can gain full control of others...$200 BILLION (of tax payers money) is a drop in the bucket to those that want control.
The majority of citizens in America were also forced to support the part that Britain had in the Iraq war. The same goes both ways.
Both powers, the UK and USA should not be making enemies as is done, this is taking our freedom away for security.
Both countries have fault and not the citizens of the two governments. Iraq is not the citizens choice, but the choice of two governments which citizens cannot control any longer. Slavery exists and is now called "employees".
I say: Live free or die.
.:
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by WA6BFH on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
No Vito, now we call them "associates".
Being an "employee" would imply that you receive a fair wage, for a fair amount of work performed!
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by AA4PB on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Yes, I could see the point of 5 year license period if one had to retake the exam. I don't really see the point otherwise except that it more or less forces people to update the FCC's database every 5 years. A lifetime license would depend on people voluntarily notifying the FCC whenever there is an address change so that they know how to get in touch with you in the event of a problem of some kind.
|
| |
|
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by OBSERVER11 on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
interesting, a LIFE LONG LICENSE... sounds to me as if the PTT has decided that Amateur Radio is not worth the effort to maintain.
I too agree that the Amateur Service in the UK is doomed. Maybe not 5 years, 5 years is a very brief time period, but 10 years is a fair period of time to phase Amateur Radio out all together.
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life in Norway
|
|
|
by KC2MMI on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
<<NOK (approx 300 USD). There was previously an annual fee (I think 20 USD) >>
Sounds like a mandatory life sentence. If you invest $300 at 5%, you get $15 a year in returns. (And higher returns for long-term investments and larger investments are not hard to find.) So what they've sold you is a system where you have no option to drop the license when and if you chose to, and they get the same annual license fee every year from the interest payments, plus a total reduction of administrative expenses (which must be at least $5 per year), plus they get to keep the $300 when you die.
Hardly a bargain! A great way to squeeze a lifetime of payments "plus" from anyone who wants a license at all.
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W6TH on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
WA6BFH
No, no, no John. "Associates" is the meaning of:
To join as a partner, ally, or friend.
To connect or join together; combine.
True for the UK and the US of A.
Our federal government and the 445 in congress are associates. Read the Patriot Act and you will read they are our enemy.
Comes the revolution.
Live Free or Die.
.:
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by K8MHZ on August 20, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Read the Patriot Act and you will read they are our enemy."
Sad, but true.
It sickens me to know that our country has stooped so low.
Citizens of our country are being held in direct violation of their Constitutional rights, their families not being told of their whereabouts and investigators being threatened with death if they try to help them.
America or Amerika?
Not so sure lately.
73,
K8MHZ
(Sorry about the off topic post....)
K8MHZ
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by KI4BNH on August 21, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
ARRL FAN wrote: "The movie SMOKEY AND THE BANDIT came out and over 2.7 million CB radios were sold that year alone. That was the beginning of the death of Ham radio "
OK , I took Logic in college... It therefore follows:
"Burt Reynolds hates the Code!"
"Burt Reynolds dated Loni Anderson"
"Loni Anderson worked at WKRP, a broadcaster in OHIO - the state that hosts the HAMVENTION"
Coincidence? I think NOT !
I tell ya, the sky(wave) is falling.............
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by WA6BFH on August 21, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
<<As you've seen from coming from this end of the pond, the ARRL is fighting BPL, but they also advertise similar doom and gloom about our bands. Other than BPL, the only real gloom we've faced in the last 10 years has been the possibility of loosing sections of 40 meters to the SW broadcasters, but even with these "herculean efforts" (?) we are still being pummeled with 60 over S9 interference daily. >>
It is really frustrating to have good Hams come up with analogies like Chris’s last sentence. I’m sure at the spur of the moments thought, he really believes this!
So Chris, we haven’t lost any band segments huh? Think about it! Hams should be able to respond to such issues, no matter their favorite band or preferences.
|
| |
|
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by HA5RXZ on August 21, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I held a UK call for a number of years before moving to Hungary, I therefore know a little about the UK amateur radio scene.
1) The RSGB has zero power, nothing, zilch. They are only a lobbying organization.
2) If the UK Government decide to sell off all of the useful amateur radio spectrum tomorrow then nothing can stop them.
3) Tony Blair, the UK Prime Minister has a long history of changing policy and long standing regulations on the fly, there is no reason why the Wireless Telegraphy Act should be regarded as sacred by those in power. If the government can sell off the gas, electric, water and rail companies then they can sell the radio spectrum.
4) There is no connection between a free license and the decline of amateur radio, the main reason for the decline of amateur radio is the aging population of those who are interested in the hobby. If you don't believe me then look around your local ham radio club, I'm 47 and one of the youngest members in my local club here in Budapest.
5) Amateur radio along with a lot of spectrum management is already partially deregulated in the UK and handled by a company (not a government department) based in Bristol.
HA5RXZ
|
| |
|
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by KE4ZHN on August 21, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Dont feel bad Ian. Pretty soon here in the states youll be able to get a ham license in a box of cracker jack at the rate things are going.
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W6TH on August 21, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
Have no fear of ham radio going out of style.
Both powers, the United Kingdom and the United States are too very busy trying to form a one world rule.
The United Nations will be the deciding factor of who will be ham radio operators and who will be not.
These two countries will use the United Nations to force upon you to obey their command or die.
The United Nations will decide who and what will be the leaders of any certain country.
Great Britain the greatest army in the world fought against the Confederate Military, a bunch of farmers, with pitch forks, had badly beaten this powefull army of Great Britain.
Ask CHARLES, EARL CORNWALLIS, he has the full story.
For the past 2000 years, many governments have failed; I wonder who the next two will be? Just one guess.
.:
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by HAMWANNABE on August 21, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
How dare the U.S. and U.K. fight Muslim murderers by going to the sources in the middle east!!! Get out of Iraq now so we do not offend these murderers. And be sure to continue to get your news from the BBC and CBS...otherwise you won't get the "Big Brother" viewpoint where leftwing-defeatist brainwashing is the rule of the day.
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W3JJH on August 21, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
M0AFJ:
As I remember my history, the only nation to stick with us throughout the 20th-century were those other bloody colonials--the Aussies. The blokes supporting me in the field in SE Asia were the Royal Australian Air Force, God bless 'em.
Still, you're point is well taken. We should be thankful for all the help we receive.
73 de W3JJH
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by KY1V on August 21, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
G0GQK wrote:
"Also the majority of the people in Britain were forced to accept that Britain would support America's attack on Iraq. It has been a disaster and has cost the taxpayers of America over $200 BILLION, and for what ?"
Either you're too young to remember or you have a short term memory. People like Saddam, Bin Laden and the late Arafat have been terrorists all their lives. They are the lowest scum on earth and only understand murder as their tool of communications. Now you mock the United States and your own country for finally saying enough is enough? You show disdain toward our leaders for taking action after being ruthlessly attacked on our own soil?
Shame on you.. You’re spiteful liberal attitude is the kind that opens the floodgates of hell on our society. You're willing to sit by idle and watch people needlessly die, then scorn those that are willing to lie down their lives to give you freedom to run your trap?
Let's see what you think when one of your family members is on the next bus or subway train that is blown up in Britain!
David ~ KY1V
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W6TH on August 21, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
KY1V
Now you mock the United States and your own country for finally saying enough is enough? You show disdain toward our leaders for taking action after being ruthlessly attacked on our own soil?
-------------------------------------------------------
One gets what they ask for, I was not the cause, but am suffering the effect.
There is no way the United states and Great Britain are using our soldiers to fight for freedom as there is no such thing as freedom. Our president and congress has voted 100 percent for the invasion of Iraq, yet we suffer the consequence; the relation of this result to its cause.
We no longer have constituional rights and also the Bill or Rights and most call this Iraq war a fight for freedom. Do you really believe this? I don't.
I say: Bring our boys home and let the Iraqs settle for themselves. Wasn't Vietnam enough of a lesson or is it ok because the congressmen don't have to use their children for the fight and cause for freedom?
In God we trust. A soldier that fought for freedom and no longer has the feeling.
.:
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W6TH on August 22, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
I want to add one more comment:
Clinton says he can do no wrong as he is the president.
Bush says he will use the power invested in him (To endow with authority or power).
The democrats claim the republicans are no good.
The republicans claim the democrats are no good.
I often wonder.....
Why do we bother to vote?
.:
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on August 22, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Bush says he will use the power invested in him."
Obviously, all this power we seem to be using is causing an energy crisis.
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W4CBL on August 22, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
People like YOU, Scott, will be the death of Ham Radio.
Do us all a favor and turn in your ticket, since all you do with it is bitc# about the hobby on Eham.
Chris W4CBL
|
| |
|
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by G4EDY on August 23, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I was astounded at the RSGBs reaction to the proposed licence for life and the ferocious scaremongering that has resulted with full page adverts in some of the radio magazines. As a member of both the RSGB and ARRL I shall only be renewing one of the memberships, guess which one!!
How can one country sell a part of the HF spectrum without the rest of the world doing the same, it would be unusable, obviously no one at the RSGB understands the basics of propogation!!!
Who would be interested in parts of the HF spectrum? Lets look at the prime users at the moment:-
The military still use bits of it as back up. There are some airport weather reports around 5MHz. The SW broadcast stations are still very active, but the only growth has been in the number of SW broadcast pirates.
I suppose it is possible that some bands could be 'sold' to allow systems like BPL to be used but as far as the UK is concerned BPL looks dead in the water and in any case most ham bands have adjacent commercial bands so any broadband system using a defunct ham band would have to be carefully confined.
Time will tell if I am burying my head in the sand but I cannot believe the hysterical line taken by the RSGB is justified.
Whatever happens in the future one thing is certain, we hams will rise to the challenge and push forward new and different frontiers.
73s Martin
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life in Norway
|
|
|
by W9WHE-II on August 23, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I have a question for all UK hams.
Does the RGSB survey members (and follow their wishes) before proposing major changes to the UK regulatory bodies?
Or, does it do what ARRL does, not survey and propose changes which are contrary to the majority of wishes of hams?
Just wondering.
W9WHE
|
| |
|
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by VA3EP on August 23, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
License for life has been in place in Canada for about 5 years.
Accredited examiners can charge nominal amount for the test (some do not) but registration is free for your first callsign (you pick from all available), $60 for additional calls.
Last time I checked sky is still in place.
Biggest challenge I see to ham radio is getting new hams on the air, and keeping them there. How many new hams have YOU elmered?
Eric VA3EP
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by G3SEA on August 23, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Just my 10 cents ( or one penny :) )
The Hobby will survive.
The RSGB will survive
The ARRL will survive
Now for the politics raised :
The U.K. owes and indeed has great gratitude to America
in WW2.
France owes similar for WW1 & WW2.
America owes gratitude to France in the American Revolution ( There were more French Troops at Yorktown than ' Revolutionaries '.
That said the USA turned out to be one fine country.
Now back to normal Ham Radio service ! :)
KH6/G3SEA
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W6TH on August 24, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
For the UK to read.
The UK also used the Tecumseh indians, the Hussians soldiers and the black slaves, with a fleet of ocean going ships. The colonists had no huge fleet. The French fleet arrived just in time, to blockade before the British fleet and that was the end of British control of Yorktown.
Lets face it, there are no winners in warfare and is a very costly situation for both sides, moreso, even todays wars. There is never any freedom with government control, because the governments use force to control. Proof is in the UK and the US of A, both use coerce to force to act or think in a certain way by use of pressure, threats, or intimidation; compel. There is no need for this from both countries.
As a matter of fact, there is no need for any government in any country. Let freedom ring.
.:
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W9WHE-II on August 24, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
G0GQK wrote:
"Also the majority of the people in Britain were forced to accept that Britain would support America's attack on Iraq. It has been a disaster and has cost the taxpayers of America over $200 BILLION, and for what ?"
G0GQK must be a "victim" of British public schooling! He has appearantly forgotten what a TOTAL DISASTER NEVIL CHAMBERLIN'S APPEASMENT APPROACH WAS DURRING WWII. Far too many suffered terribly while Nevil Chamberlin espoused the philosophy "let's give Hitler what he wants so he will leave us alone".
I might take a moment to remind him that appeazing despots like Hitler, Mussolini, Bin Laden and Zarkawi leads to death, destruction and suffering. So...if you want to repeat Nevil Chamberlin's catastrophic mistakes....I might remind you of that off-quoted truism:
"those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it".
W9WHE
(Proud son of an American Soldier wounded while liberating europe)
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W9WHE-II on August 24, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Citizens of our country are being held in direct violation of their Constitutional rights, their families not being told of their whereabouts and investigators being threatened with death if they try to help them"
Can you say BRAINWASHED by hate filled, intollerant propigandists?
Do you have any EVIDENCE OR FACTS other than what you read on some Wacko Extreme Liberal website or the hate-filled speech spouted by air america?
Calm down. Take a few deep breaths. Seperate your hate driven hysteria from reality. Now, what facts and evidence do you have to support your thesis? (Hint: what Al Frankin, Move-on.org and Democratic Underground say is NOT evidence. heck, its not even reality!).
W9WHE
Charter member of the vast right-wing conspiricy.
|
| |
|
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by G4EDY on August 24, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W9WHE asks if the RSGB polled members for their opinions.
Freud determined that in any demographic group there were less than 10% free thinkers, the remaining 90% were sheep. This fact has been used by Marketeers, Spin Doctors and Politicians ever since.
If the RSGB asked the membership "Will deregulation lead to a loss of HF bands?" the majority of the membership would not express a strong opinion either way. Of the minority that would respond few would have the understanding and judgement to make a useful contribution. Just look at how off-topic the majority of comments in this thread have become.
We rely on the people at the RSGB, tasked with looking after our interests, to be sufficiently qualified and informed to make decisions on our behalf and be able to present the reasoning behind the decisions in a fair and balanced way.
In my opinion they have failed to make a case for their rather hysterical response to the Ofcom proposal.
73s Martin
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W6TH on August 24, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
G4EDY
Martin
We rely on the people at the RSGB, tasked with looking after our interests, to be sufficiently qualified and informed to make decisions on our behalf and be able to present the reasoning behind the decisions in a fair and balanced way-----
-----------------------------------------------------
I see it as the RSGB is on the down grade for membership and now you people want to again suck the blood of Americans.
I fought in WW2, but was always on British soil and never at anytime on our American soil. The old WW2 saying:
There will always be England as long as there is America.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it mate.
73, Mahatma Gandi
.:
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by VE9XY on August 26, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Eric VA3EP hit it right on the head...all us Canucks reading this gibberish just sigh and ask what all the fuss is. License for life just keeps things simple and keeps the government's hands out of your pockets. Works great here, and I would be COMPLETELY against changing it in Canada. Is there some reason that you expect that the system which, by every account I have ever heard, works so well here, would not work in other countries? The HAMs here love it.
Now, if only we could get a break on our RAC membership if we didn't recieve the magazine...
|
| |
|
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by G4DYO on August 27, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"we are an extremely civilised country"
I definitely would NOT agree with that.... 40 years ago maybe, but definitely not now.
My views on that strange organisation at Potters Bar are well-known. 'nuff said.
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by K4RAF on August 27, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Not to start an international incident but all America has to do is look at the UK & realize a tolerant, non-judgemental society is not civil.
By the British allowing non-asymalation to be public policy, a recent survey of British muslims revealed that 52% of them consider themselves muslims first, Bristish second. This is what has lead to the London bombings & general upevil in British society. Couple that with unbridled free speech (we call it hate speech here in the US) spewed forth from British mosques & is it any wonder what has happened?
This has put Blair in the mission impossible position of trying to put the genie back into the bottle. I was aghast at hearing him say they would now require newly sworn citizens to swear allegiance to Britain. We have done that with our new immigrants since Ellis Island opened. We have our own problems with native language, but conspiring to kill other citizens is not tolerated here.
The law of nature dictates "eat or be eaten". Iraq has become the "honey pot" of the middle east, attracting the killers there & not here. IMHO the fact that London has had a rash of brazen bombings, within weeks of each other, shows that your non-judgemental & tolerant society is an open invitation to those who make no mystery of their intent to kill off Western society.
No insult intended or construed but please stay off your high horses over war, any war. Killers can't continue to kill, if they themselves are exterminated, first...
BTW: When will the US offer a lifetime license? Oh wait, since enfarcement is so lame, they must wait till you are up for renewal to extort enfarcement actions against you. That is the only reason it will never happen here.
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W6TH on August 27, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
IMHO the fact that London has had a rash of brazen bombings, within weeks of each other, shows that your non-judgemental & tolerant society is an open invitation to those who make no mystery of their intent to kill off Western society.
Yes, you would think that these two great power nations of the world would want to make friends of the world and yet these great powers of Great Britain and "These United States" of America continue to make enemies.
These are not the peoples choice I can assure one and all, but the choice of force, greed and power; to govern.
.:
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by RSGBLTD on August 28, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hi,
The Rsgb made a Big issue (Hype) about it Before it was made Public and now All that we have from the Rsgb is a Timetable for them to visit Amateurs around the Country!! This is all well and good, But until then will still do Not have a Response from the Rsgb? Maybe the Rsgb knows it was Making a Big Fuss about Nothing and now looks rather Silly considering All the Hype the Rsgb made about the Consultation is NOT Justified!!!!
I look forward to meeting the Rsgb Reps in my County soon and will have Questions such as…..
1. Is the Rsgb a Limited Company (Rsgb Ltd)? (YES)
2. How much money does the Rsgb make from Radio Licensing and Training courses and Exams??
3. What would happen to the Rsgb if Amateur Radio was Fully Deregulated? (I do NOT support this)
4. Is the Rsgb looking after the Amateurs interests or the Rsgb own interest?
5. How does the Rsgb Justify charging over £40 for membership? I was told it’s worth it for Radcom?
But don’t the Advertisers Pay to Advertise in Radcom to Cover its Publication (£1000.00 a Page)??
6. I was told that the Rsgb believes that Profit should not be made from Amateur Radio Operators?
If so How does the Rsgb Justify its self from Making Profit from Amateur Radio Operators??
7. We are All Intituled to ask these Questions Especially if you are a Fully paid up Member of the Rsgb!! I look Forward to seeing a Real Response from the Rsgb on its Website Concerning the Ofcom Consultation in the Very near future!!!! By the time the Rsgb gets around the Country, Most peoples responses will have Already been sent to Ofcom!! But do Enjoy your Holidays!!!! (At our Expense!!)
Lets Not Debate the £15 Amateur Radio Licence Fee, Lets Debate the Rsgb Charging over £40 for Membership a Year?
Ofcom Licence £15
Rsgb Membership £40+??????
The TRUTH is that the Rsgb is a Ltd Company
Rsgb Licensing Ltd
If you don’t Believe me then Telephone them and Ask them if they are a Ltd Company?
I did and (after a Pause)was Told by them that they are!!
So the Rsgb a non profit society run by Amateurs for Amateurs?? I Think NOT!
As you can see from my callsign!! I`m No fan!
There are 55,000 to 65,000 Amateurs in the U.K?
Only approx 22,000 are members of Rsgb Licensing Ltd So they Hardly represent All U.K Amateurs?
73s
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by RSGBLTD on August 28, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
The Rsgb would like a Renewable Fee Paid Licence that they would like to Administer on behalf of Ofcom to Boost there Income!!
Looking at the Responses sent in by Amateurs, They might get there own way????
We will have no one to blame except for the Brain washed minds of U.K Amateurs!
Ofcom stated that if we Pay a Licence fee or NOT it does NOT Influence their Decision making regarding Amateur Radio Spectrum or Licence conditions!
If a Licence is given for Life then That Means Life?
I dont see how it could then be taken away by deregulation as the Rsgb State??
Rsgb Licensing Ltd.... Brain Washing the Minds of U.K Amateurs!
73s
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by RSGBLTD on August 28, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hi,
For our Friends over the Pond, If your Interested these where the Consultation Questions......
Consultation questions
Question 1: Do you agree with the proposal to introduce a lighter, electronic licensing process?
If not, please explain why.
Question 2: Do you agree with the proposal to issue licences which remain valid for the life of the licensee?
If not, please explain why.
Question 3: Do you agree with the proposal to issue electronic amateur radio licences free of charge?
If not, please explain why.
Question 4: Do you agree with the proposal to apply an administrative charge when
processing postal applications for amateur radio licences? If not, please explain why.
Question 5: Do you agree that WT Act licence exemption for radio amateurs is NOT currently practical?
Question 6: What are your views regarding the possibility of WT Act licence exemption for radio amateurs in the longer term?
Question 7: Is maintaining the existing licensing regime but with an extended
renewal period your preferred option? If so, please state the renewal period that you
believe would be appropriate and explain why.
Question 8: Do you agree that the current licensing system is over-burdensome?
If not, please explain why.
Question 9: Do you agree with the proposal to apply an administrative charge when
processing applications for a Notice of Variation to an amateur radio licence?
If not, please explain why.
73s
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by RSGBLTD on August 28, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hi,
I’m Not sure why G3ZHI started this Thread? As when he did the Consultation was Already Closed. (17-08-05)
To answer someone else?? (Sorry forgot your Callsign)
This Was the licence Fee being debated Not the FEE to take Any Amateur Licence Training Course and Exam,
A U.K Amateur pays to take a Training course and then Pays to take the Exam! (That is paid to Rsgb Licensing Ltd)
73s
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by RSGBLTD on August 28, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
And at present we pay £15.00 a Year to Ofcom for Each Callsign we hold. (which could be 3)
And then (If your silly) Pay £40.00+ a Year to Rsgb Licensing Ltd for Membership!
73s
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by RSGBLTD on August 28, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
G3ZHI Who started this Thread Does NOT support the Rsgb?? Below is HIS Response to Ofcom.........
Email response received 18 July 2005 from Mr I Abel G3ZHI:
Consultation questions
Question 1: Do you agree with the proposal to introduce a lighter, electronic licensing process? If not, please explain why.
1)YES.
Question 2: Do you agree with the proposal to issue licences which remain valid for the life of the licensee? If not, please explain why.
2)YES. I WILL SAVE £15 A YEAR
Question 3: Do you agree with the proposal to issue electronic amateur radio licences free of charge? If not, please explain why.
3) YES
Question 4: Do you agree with the proposal to apply an administrative charge when processing postal applications for amateur radio licences? If not, please explain why.
4) NO – THE LICENCE SHOULD BE FREE TO ALL
Question 5: Do you agree that WT Act licence exemption for radio amateurs is not currently practical?
5) YES
Question 6: What are your views regarding the possibility of WT Act licence exemption for radio amateurs in the longer term?
6) NOT IN FAVOUR OF LICENCE EXEMPTION FOR AMATEUR RADIO
Question 7: Is maintaining the existing licensing regime but with an extended renewal period your preferred option? If so, please state the renewal period that you believe would be appropriate and explain why.
7) NO
Question 8: Do you agree that the current licensing system is over-burdensome? If not, please explain why.
8) YES
Question 9: Do you agree with the proposal to apply an administrative charge when processing applications for a Notice of Variation to an amateur radio licence? If not, please explain why.
9) NOV’S SHOULD BE FREE. NOV’S ARE ISSUED TO HAMS OFFERING A SERVICE TO PROMOTE OR ENHANCE THE HOBBY AND HAMS SHOULD NOT BE MADE TO PAY FOR DOING THIS.
THE NOV SCHEME COULD BE SCRAPPED IN THE LONG TERM AND INCORPORATED INTO THE MAIN LICENCE. RSGB VOLUNTEER SPECTRUM MANGERS COULD MANAGE ALLOCATION OF REPEATERS INTERNET LINKS ETC. WHICH IS HOW THE ARRL DO IT IN THE USA.
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by K4JF on August 28, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
<Great Britain the greatest army in the world fought against the Confederate Military, a bunch of farmers, with pitch forks, had badly beaten this powefull army of Great Britain. >
Uh, somebody had better read some factual history (not the PC stuff). Great Britain basically supported the Confederate States of America in our defensive war against the U.S. They certainly did not "fight against" us.
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W6TH on August 29, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
Sorry, but wrong army and not the Confederate army, but the Continental army.
This should clear up the error.
.:I was waiting for a comment, but you are the only one that caught this error. Thanks.
.:
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W6TH on August 29, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
Great Britain the greatest army in the world fought against the Continental Military, a bunch of farmers, with pitch forks, had badly beaten this powefull army of Great Britain.
.:
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by W6TH on August 29, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
I have always been opposed to the English Amateurs paying for their ham tickets. These tickets should come free of charge, but then again isn't England well noted for high taxation.
We Americans, still, can recall the Boston tea party, taxation without representation. Can you imagine an ocean made of tea, Boston tea?
What about salt and linen in India. Try the Mahatma Gandi opposition and who knows, you hams may come out either dead or famous with your acts of freedom.
I am on your side my British brothers, "Live Free or Die". Don't ever say the word of "Fire" as it may turn out to be another massacre; like the Boston massacre.
73 Brothers in arms, W6TH.
.:
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by G3ZHI on August 30, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
the advert was produced by the rsgb and it is their views that i was reporting
the advert has caused offence to a number of rsgb members who have resigned because of it
so perhaps not the best idea the rsgb have come up with
in dealing with our new radio regulator
73 Ian G3ZHI
http://www.qsl.net/g3zhi - many ham radio links
http://www.ukirlp.co.uk
G4NJI IRLP 5200 Echolink 135909
Rotherham simplex 145.2875mhz
Skype g3zhiian
VoiP 642109
Mobile 0783 338 0578
|
| |
|
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by M0AFJ on September 1, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Wish I knew what W6TH is on, very bizarre comments, lots of rambling, sounds like 80M!
|
| |
|
License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by GM0ONX on September 1, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Its absolute nonsense of the worst scare mongering kind to equate licence for life with deregulation.
Read the OFCOM proposals and they strongly support retaining the existing regulation structure.
Your Driving Licence is effectively a license for life and that’s not deregulated. Try driving on the road without passing the test as see what happens to you if you get caught.
Licence for life is NOT deregulation and is dishonesty of the highest calibre to suggest otherwise.
As someone who is very pro RSGB and a volunteer planning panel member, that ‘dam ad’ and the RSGB blatant scare mongering are almost enough to make me resign.
Len Paget GM0ONX
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by RSGBLTD on September 1, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hi GM0ONX,
I could not agree with you more!
Although my resignation to them would be in the Post!
Unfortunately it’s to late now for the Ofcom consultation as it is Now closed and we can Only Hope that Ofcom ignores the Rant of the Rsgb Licensing Ltd?
But It gives us All time to Reflect and consider our position regarding Rsgb licensing Ltd membership!
I for one will Not be Renewing mine.
Looking at a lot of the Responses Ofcom have Received, A lot are a Mirror image of the Rsgb licensing Ltd response????
I have spoken to a member of staff at Ofcom who did not seem to know that the Rsgb is a Ltd company? Although he was soon informed when he looked up the information on the Internet under Ltd Companies ect.
I was also told that Ofcom mainly has its ties with Rsgb licensing ltd Only because they seem to be the biggest organisation representing Amateur Radio in the U.K?
I soon informed that person of his mistake as Only approx 20,000 U.K Amateurs are members of Rsgb licensing ltd, (info gained from rsgb) Less than Half of U.K Amateurs!!
73s
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by RSGBLTD on September 1, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Name & Registered Office:
RSGB LICENCES LIMITED
LAMBDA HOUSE,
CRANBORNE ROAD,
POTTERS BAR,
HERTFORDSHIRE. EN6 3JE
Company No. 02603325
Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 19/04/1991
Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC(03)):
9272 - Other recreational activities
9305 - Other service activities
7499 - Non-trading company
Accounting Reference Date: 30/06
Last Accounts Made Up To: 30/06/2004 (DORMANT)
Next Accounts Due: 30/04/2006
Last Return Made Up To: 11/12/2004
Next Return Due: 08/01/2006
Last Members List: 11/12/2004
Previous Names:
Date of change Previous Name
02/10/1991 BAYLAKE LIMITED
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by RSGBLTD on September 1, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hi,
Check it out here for Yourself!
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/e4b23b3e8a6cb1bf0a00dfb05d98bcf8//compdetails
This is the Proof in the Pudding!
RSGB LICENCES LIMITED
I stand Corrected Rsgb Licences Ltd Not Rsgb licensing Ltd! But then again Same Thing?
A Non Profit making Society, Run by Amateurs for Amateurs?? I Think NOT!
Phone +44 (0)870 904 7373 And Ask Them YourSelf!
|
| |
|
RE: License for Life = Deregulation in the UK?
|
|
|
by RSGBLTD on September 2, 2005
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hi,
It Gets Worse..............
For the 1st time since the Rsgb asked the City and Guilds in 1946 to run a formal Radio Amateurs examination, the responsibility for running licensing examinations in the U.K has passed to radio amateurs,
On the 1st of September 2005 OFCOM Stood Down as the Examination Body and the Task of Running the Radio Communications Examinations has been Given to the Radio Communications Foundation(Rsgb Charity) and the RSGB.(Rsgb Licences Ltd)
The RCF (Rsgb) will Accredit the Examinations and, as now, the RSGB will do the day-to-day administration.
Rsgb Licences Ltd will now have Full Control over the U.K Exams and My Bet is they will Soon Have Control over the Whole Amateur Licence Administration??
Rsgb Licences Ltd Never let this Slip while the Ofcom consultation was taking Place????
73s
|
| |
|
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to discussions on this article.
Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help
Other Recent Articles
VK5RJ Still Gracing the Airwaves at Age 101:
rec.radio.amateur.moderated -- 5 Yrs. Old:
Tune-In To The World -- Amateur Radio Gets People Talking:
Student Sends MIT Letter to Space:
Amateur Radio Club Talks to Hams Worldwide on Centennial:
|
