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Hurricane Katrina Communicaions -- UPDATED 10:50am(CDT) 9-Sept-2005:

from George Fremin III - K5TR on September 2, 2005
View comments about this article!

Update - 10:50am(CDT) 9-Sept-2005
The very active sunspot region that caused a massive X-17 flare on 7-Sept has continued to affect HF communications with the Katrina affected areas. On 8-Sept this region produced another HF radio backout of shorter duration when an X-5 flare erupted at 2106 UTC 8-Sept. There was another X-1 flare at 0330 UTC 9-Sept. And an X-3 flare at 1000 UTC 9-Sept. More information about these flares can be found on's web page. This very active solar region was just coming into view on the edge of the sun when the X-17 flare occured. As this region moves across the face of the sun during the next week to 10 days the chances are good that we will have more solar flares. NOAA forecasters say there's a 50% chance of more X-flares during the next 24 hours, possibly causing radio blackouts and radiation storms.

The West Gulf ARES net will be shutting down net operations at 0600 UTC 10-Sept.

Update - 3:30pm(CDT) 7-Sept-2005
There was a very strong X Class solar flare at 1740 UTC that caused a HF radio blackout. Three hours later the HF bands are still affected. This radio blackout has slowed and in many cases blocked HF communications with the Katrina affected areas. Propagation is returning slowly and should improve with time.

There are many audio streams on the internet of both amateur and non-amatuer radio communcations in the Katrina affected areas. You can find a large list of these streams on the Radio Reference web site wiki.

Update - 10:00pm(CDT) 3-Sept-2005
The The Maritime Mobile Service Network web site has a very good list of radio frequencies and online resources.

Update - 3:30pm(CDT) 3-Sept-2005
The FCC has a Katrina page up with links to emergency information.

Update - 9:00am(CDT) 3-Sept-2005
FEMA has posted a listing of web sites that are being used to locate missing persons.

Update - 8:00am(CDT) 3-Sept-2005
An internet audio feed has been setup to stream live audio of the West Gulf ARES Emergency Net which is handling emergency amateur radio traffic for areas hit by Hurricane Katrina. The net is active 24 hours per day. A mirror of the above audio stream has been added here.

Another audio stream has been added here. This stream is from my station here in Johnson City, Texas.

The Gulf Coast News has a Katrina Survivor database and a mirror here.

Update - 20:30Z 2-Sept-2005

Update - 10:40am(CDT) 2-Sept-2005
We have had reports that the SATERN network is only taking health and welfare traffic via their Web Site.

The ARRL is reporting that it has learned that the US Coast Guard and Rescue Coordination Center is no longer taking rescue requests by telephone, due to the overwhelming number of calls. All rescue requests must be submitted via the Coast Guard home page, which includes a red link to file a "Missing/Stranded Persons" report.

Post from 1-Sep-2005: has received a number of inquiries from hams and non-hams about uisng using amateur radio to contact the areas affected by hurricane Katrina. We have compiled a short list of some of the resources and information about health and welfare traffic into and out of the affected areas.

Communications with the areas affected by hurricane Katrina are still very spotty as many of the affected areas remain flooded and dangerous. State officials have not allowed emergency units to enter the flooded zones.

The West Gulf Emergency Net is active on 7.285 MHz during the day and 3.873 MHz at night for priority and emergency traffic. Health-and-welfare traffic is being handled on 7.290 MHz during the day and 3.935 MHz at night.

The Salvation Army Team Emergency Radio Network (SATERN) is operating on 14.265 MHz and has been accepting health-and-welfare inquiries on the air and via its Web site.

The American Red Cross is also handling health-and-welfare inquiries via its toll-free "Get Info" hotline, 866-GET INFO (866-438-4636).

In addition WWL-TV has resource links on its web site.

Member Comments:
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Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by NA4IT on September 1, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Also, a simplified message format will help the NCS.



"ARL 19"



This will keep the time to send a message to a minumum.
Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by N4ZOU on September 1, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I wrote an article about Non Petroleum electric power generation on May 25 2005. I never thought this information would become so important so soon! Here is the link to that article.
There is now a critical shortage of gasoline and no electrical power production in the disaster area. If your going to be involved in local disaster area efforts it would be a very good idea to build a gasifier for use in the disaster area. I built a small gasifier for my backup generator that works very well. I am also going to post the appropriate links here.

Your local gasoline may become unaffordable and/or unavailable as well.
NO! You can't convert your "modern" vehicle to operate on wood! You will need a gas burner tractor, old truck or car without computer-controlled engines. The catalytic converter will quickly be destroyed as well!
Help requested  
by N2MG on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
From a web user - any help anyone?:


From jeb at

I am not even sure that you can reply to this email. My husband and I are stranded in DeKaulb MS after fleeing Gulfport MS in the wake of Katrina. We have friends in Gulfport, Butch and Gail Horning, who are HAM radio operators. Law enforcement authorities are not letting us past Hattiesburg at this time and we need to get in touch with someone in Gulfport to find out how our friends faired and to let them know that we are okay. Can you get in touch with Gail and let her know we are trying to get home (if we have one)?

Our cell phone numbers are (contact for info).

We would deeply appreciate any help you can give. Gail and I work together at Trinity United Methodist Church on Lawson Avenue, just south of Interstate 10, and just east of the airport.

Thank you,

Chris Lee
Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by N3HKN on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Why aren't Ham Radio operators being airlifted on return trips to hospitals to provide comms to a Ham Radio central site at the airport. The idiots in charge are not using this asset. Someone needs to get a Ham operator on the roof of the garage with a VHF rig plugged into one of the cars in the top of the garage for comms to the triage center. This is what we do. Damn it do it! People are dying!

Dick N3HKN
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by KG6AMW on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
If you can't participate directly, do so indirectly by sending cash and/or donating a pint of blood. List of possible donor sites, American Red Cross, Salvation Army, Catholic Charities, Episcopal Relief, Mennonite Disaster Services, Mercy Corps, Methodist Relief, Samaritans Purse, Southern Baptist Disaster Relief and United Jewish Charities.

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by KU4AB on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I am wondering why we are not seeing any of this on CNN or other networks It seems like an excellent time to "Advertise" ham radio. Is there not some way we can get the ARRL videos on the air on as many stations as possible. Many people might be worrying about family or friends and do not know the part Ham radio is playing in this disaster. They may not know they may be able to get information into or out of the area by listening on their short wave radios and contacting a ham in their area to pass a message into the area. THIS IS AN OPORTUNITY WE DO NOT NEED TO WASTE !! Lets get the local radio/tv stations informed that lots of the information being transfered behind the scenes is via Amateur radio. Check out look under media resources..lets use this to get more hams involved and maybe get some people who dreamed of being a ham to the testing sessions.. GET THE WORD OUT. Amateur radio is down to slightly over 600,000 in the USA if we want to retain our frequencys we need to expand. The fewer hams there are the more the chance that the FCC will give away our frequencys to the thousands of people wanting wireless products..

Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by K0RGR on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Please see the ARRL website for important information on assisting with Katrina relief.

Also, the 7290 traffic net has a website with additional information, .

Hams are as involved as they can be at this time. Authorities are not allowing any outsiders into the most seriously affected areas because it is simply too dangerous for them to be there.

As for hospitals, I heard one amazing exchange on the 3873 emergency frequency last night. There was a ham on the 4th floor of one of the hospitals in New Orleans that they were evacuating. Someone on the 5th floor called 911, and because 911 is out in New Orleans, the call was routed to a 911 operator in Texas. The Texas 911 operator contacted a ham there, who got on the 3873 net, and passed the message back to the ham in the same hospital! I didn't hear what the emergency was, but they sent people running to handle it!

The emergency-only nets are very, very busy. I've never heard this amount of activity, and the hams aren't even doing the kind of work they usual do in a disaster yet.

I think the argument can certainly be made that no matter how much they spend on other systems, ham radio is an indispensible part of disaster communications plans.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by K0BG on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
For those folks who think we should allows amateurs in the stricken area to be first responders, should read the messages posted on the home page of the ARRL web site ( from President Haynie. The advise given in the article is also very good advise.

If you really want to help (in the future), you should join ARES and participate in their exercises, learn how to handle H&W messages properly, and most importantly, learn why amateurs are NEVER first responders in emergencies situations like this one.

Alan, KØBG
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by AA4PB on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Why aren't Ham Radio operators being airlifted on return trips to hospitals to provide comms to a Ham Radio central site at the airport?
Because as I understand it the goal is to get everyone out of those hospitals because there is no food, no water, no electric power, and no medicine. What would the ham do? Radio for more aircraft that they do not have?

It is one thing for a ham that is caught in a dangerous situation to be able to assist because he is already there. It is something totally different to purposly put someone into a situation where you cannot support him and he may wind up becoming one more causualty.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by WA4MJF on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
KU4AB, put aside your left wing network
and watch FNC and you'll see ham radio
mentioned on a regular basis.

73 de Ronnie
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by KC8VWM on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"It is something totally different to purposly put someone into a situation where you cannot support him and he may wind up becoming one more causualty."

Here's a question:

How many casualties will result from no presence of any ham operators or any form of communication in the affected area?

Ham operators don't have to be located directly in the "war zone". For example, they could operate a well equipped station aboard a ship located in the gulf near the affected area. The military could provide VHF radios to the hospital or others for the purpose of communications with the relay station located in the safe confines of the ship.

At the very least they should establish a portable repeater for the police department to communicate with one another. This will undoubetly help save lives and reduce casualties.

Where's the leadership? These are simple and basic ideas that can be implemented to provide communications in the area in a safe manner?

Why isn't it happening? People are dying as I am writing this. C'mon people this can be done!

Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by K7NNG on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by KC0BUS on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I only saw Fox news channel on TV briefly mention about ham radio the day after the hurricane ripped through the south. I haven't seen them say anything about it since. Bill O'rielly called it "shortwave radio" last night on his show. Yet everbody keeps crying about how there is no communication down there. I've been watching the coverage non-stop. I am starting to get sick of hearing the "authorities" constantly pat themselves on the backs for doing such a wonderful job down there. They haven't done squat down there yet.... Even the president of the ARRL, Jim Haynie, doesn't want hams to do anthing, just read his letter on the ARRL website:

This is what we get when we let morons be our leaders.
Scott, KC0BUS
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by KG6AMW on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Time to stop complaining and start doing. Donate a pint of blood and seek out a disaster charity and donate.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by KC8VWM on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"They haven't done squat down there yet...."

Agreed 100%! The problem is that agencies cannot communicate with one another to coordinate the intended effort with one another.

Simply put, with no communication, you can have no coordinated organization in the affected area. Period!

The news media seems to be the only reporting mechanism in the area at the moment. No one else has a clue knows what's actually going on.

Communication is an absolutely essential element if we are going to start, and let me emphasize the word "start", organizing this whole mess.

So far everyone is waiting for the other guy to give them some sort of "clearance" and absolutely nothing is getting done.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by K4RAF on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
For all I have said ill of the ARRL, I must tip my hat & applaud Jim Haynie for being the true voice of reason in this situation. He is showing true leadership in this most trying of times. Patience, not press...

Having spoke with some of my field people this morniing, there is no place to stay for 85 miles inland, no fuel & no food. Some of my people have had to travel armed to protect the generators & fuel deployed to bring up sites that can still function. This is a war zone from any perspective, not a movie.

Think & plan BEFORE you deploy for a rough stay. This is a real field day, without the contest...
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by AA4PB on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Once you get the comms out to a military ship there will be no need for hams on the ship. The Navy has plenty of long range communications from the ship including Internet e-mail access in most cases.

I imagine there will be portable repeaters set up as soon as they can get people into the area to accomplish it. This just proves what ARES people have been saying all along - don't count on HTs because the repeater infrastructure may not be available. You need higher power VHF radios with external antennas and/or HF.

Most of the police HTs are useless because they depend on an infrastructure in order to work reliably. In addition, the batteries run down and there is no power available to recharge them on a routine basis.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by KC8VWM on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
With all due respect, I would prefer to think of ways and see ideas on how we "CAN" help, as opposed to why we "CAN'T" help.

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by K0BG on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Wow! Talk about interpreting the same message differently? This in respect to the ARRL President's statements on their web site (

I'm wondering. How many of the negative voices on this thread have ever handled an honest H&W message replete with printed form and using the approved format?

Again, amateurs are NOT first responders! If that is what you wanted to do in life, then why didn't you become an EMT or police officer?

Alan, KØBG
Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by K2GW on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
We're all aware of the massive devastion in Lousiana and Mississippi. My fellow Section Emergency Coordinators and I have been monitoring the situation since before the hurricane struck. Over 500 hams have been supporting the relief efforts under the direction of the MS and LA Section Emergecency Coordinators (SEC's). As is our protocol, the adjacent South Texas (STX) SEC is coordinating mutual aid to the affected area.

The League has established a web site to register for assignments in LA and MS. See the main page of or for details. We would prefer that only those hams who have experience in local emergency communications, can be totally self-sufficient for five days, have completed ARECC 1 and have the endorsement of their local EC apply. Conditions will be physically and mentally demanding. NO ONE SHOULD GO TO THE AFFECTED AREA UNLESS SPECIFCALLY ASSIGNED AND DISPATCHED BY STX SEC UNDER THIS SYSTEM.

Also, please discourage Disaster Welfare Inquiry (DWI) messages into the area. ARRL advises these are getting in the way of emergency communications. Advise people to remain calm and wait for folks to contact them. If they can't be consoled and the message is extremely urgent, the Red Cross maintains a DWI system that folks can best reach through their local Red Cross chapter.

There is also an open survivor information database at . Property damage summaries for towns can be queried at . Both of these sites are unofficial, but hams have used them to answer some DWI requests . As is taught in the ARECC courses, experienced Emergency Communicators use all available resources even if they aren't "pure" ham radio.

Finally if you wish to monitor the HF nets in the affected area, please disconnect your microphone before doing so. This avoids potential inteference from VOX and removes the temptation from trying to jump in to "help".

Thanks and 73

Gary Wilson, K2GW
SNJ Section Emergency Coordinator
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by W5ESE on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
You can help now, wherever you are.

Check into your NTS and/or ARES section net. If you
don't know where/when it meets, look it up in the
net directory on the ARRL web site. Start getting
used to the standard net procedures NOW, as there
may be a torrent of health/welfare messages being
routed into them in the next few days and weeks.

Jim's message was right on the spot. Seems like
events like this bring out all the back seat

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by W6AJ on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
If you want to see what is being done, watch FNC. If you want to hear what is not being done, watch CNN.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by AA4PB on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
During Camile I was in the Navy and assigned as the chief MARS operator at a base in Florida. For a while we had the only comms into the Air Force base in the area. I learned a whole lot about making sure assistance requests are properly coordinated.

Example 1: A generator was requested for a hospital in the area. I arranged to borrow one from a Mfg and arranged to have it flown to the area by an Airforce transport plane. On the other end it was not coordinated. No one showed up to help unload the generator (the pilot had to arange that when he got there and he needed to get off before dark because there were no runway lights). Nobody coordinated getting the generator from the airport to the hospital and so the hospital never got it - it sat there at the airport unused. When it was all over and the mfg wanted their generator back nobody knew where it was since it was not at the hospital. Fortunately it was quite large and a local ham drove around and located it for me.

Example 2: A request was made for hams to come to the area to provide assistance. We sent three MARS people who had ham licenses. The report I got back was that when they got there they had no support. Nobody knew where they were needed. They wound up helping to deliver some water but never were utilized in the communications role for which they were sent.

Bottom line - work with ARES and coordinate with the officials. Its fine to come up with ideas for ways to help but make sure they are properly thought out and coordinated. Don't go off on your own.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by KC8VWM on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

"Again, amateurs are NOT first responders! If that is what you wanted to do in life, then why didn't you become an EMT or police officer? "

Alan, this is not about being a pretend police officer or EMT. It is about Americans helping Americans in a time of desperate need.

In our case it is about using trained and skill ham operators for providing critical communication for the affected area. At no time has anyone suggested that "non trained" hams be involved, or for anyone to rush in and put on an orange vest and play traffic cop.

Communication remains to be a huge problem in the area that isn't getting any better. The sheer lack of communication is seriously affecting peoples lives.

Here is an example of what I mean and I quote:

"Federal Emergency Management Director Michael Brown told CNN that federal officials were unaware of the crowds at the convention center until Thursday, despite the fact that city officials had been telling people for days to gather there."


Now I ask, would this same stupidity be demonstrated by FEMA officials if the covention center had an amateur radio station setup there?

Now before anyone suggests that it is "unsafe" to do so, consider this:

Obviously, the covention center area must be safe enough for these victims to stay there, so why wouldn't areas like this be safe enough for setting up an amateur radio station?

...Perplexing isn't it.

I just don't understand this whole idea of holding back and preventing well trained and most qualified people from doing what they do best. Communicate.

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by K0BG on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Chuck, I suggest you re-read the response just above your last post from Gary Wilson, K2GW, SNJ Section Emergency Coordinator. Enough said.

Alan, KØBG
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by ARRLFAN on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
We gave FEMA 20 Billion dollars after 9/11 -- to prep for the next "big one"

Department of Homeland Security has cost us 80 Billion so far --

and on day 6 Americn citizins are just getting supplies to the OUTSKIRTS of the city -- how many do you think have died in the last six days awaiting rescue....

yet some of you are worried about their precious Hobby not being mentioned enough --

Tinker AFB has had planes lined up for 4 days now waiting to be told to deliver supplies -- why haven't they gone???

Holy Crap -- why did it take us SIX days to start relief ???

What the hell did all the money go to ???

Here we are the most powerful country in the world and are taking aid now from Cuba and Lebanon to cover the tradegy...

Our govt sits back and politics while our citizens die...


but hey maybe we need to give Homeland Security better office furniture so they can do their jobs better...

Time to send in the military -- !!! Obviously the civilina leadership are idiots...

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by W6TH on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Keep this in mind for the future:

At anytime if in need of emergency radio equipment, remember that all of my radio gear can be used for such occasions. There should be no lack of communications at any time. Very successful during WW2 civilian defence.

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by KC8VWM on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"Work with ARES and coordinate with the officials. Its fine to come up with ideas for ways to help but make sure they are properly thought out and coordinated. Don't go off on your own."

Sound advice.

I would like to thank Gary and Alan for thier insight on this subject as well.

We all need to stick together and get this job done.

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by KB9WSL on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Two days ago I e-mailed CNN and gave them several websites addresses, so that they could get information regarding how "Hams" were providing communications for the disaster area. I have been watching CNN since and have not seen the first mention of Ham radio operators providing communications. I guess the mainstream media does not what to focus on the "good" side of this story ie: people helping provide extremely important assistance. I sense a bias toward focusing on the "bad" ie: looters, shooters, race etc. I take comfort in knowing thousands of people ARE DOING GOOD!

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by K9NYO on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I agree with the advice to:

1. Stand at the ready
2. Do not self-deploy
3. Wait for requests from RACES or ARES

If you go into a disaster zone preemptively, you will become a casualty. They are trying to totally EVACUATE that city--let them do so.

Instead of arguing about Bill O'Reilly and Ted Turner, go out and stock up on bottled water, lots of alkaline batteries for your HT, study/refresh yourself on NTS traffic handling (practice on your local repeaters--that's what they're for!).

Get together a backpack that will sustain you completely for 4 to 5 days. Get a tent. Do something useful.


I represent the Northeast Illinois District...we in Chicago stand ready to help in the Gulf when we're needed.

Rob Sobkoviak, K9NYO
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by KU8E on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Those of you talking about sending Amateur Radio volunteers to New Orleans. Think about this :

I was listening to WWL radio (870 Khz) last night. They had public service announcements playing that provided tips to those residents that will be allowed back into New Orleans starting at 6 AM on Monday to check on their property.

Plan to be 100 % self sufficient - you would need
plenty of bottled water , a full tank af gas when
you arrive, food etc... all the last for several

The smell is overweleming due to comtaminated
water and and dead bodies that are all over the
place. There is a good chance there will be more
deaths due to diseases caused by the unsanitary

The last time I checked the average age of ham operators in the USA is close to 50 years old. How many of them are in good enough of physical condition to function in this environment, that is probably worse then many 3rd world countries.

Jeff KU8E/4 Columbus, GA

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by F5SGI on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Here, we're all horrified at what we've seen on our screens and read in our newspapers.
Our pain is maybe even greater since, for French people, Louisiana has a special place in our heart.

Heartfelt sympathy to all those who suffered from such dreadful disaster.

Regarding the role of US hams, French hams know that their US counterparts will prove equal to their reputation.

God bless you all.

73 de Jean-Marc, F5SGI
Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:40am(  
by W5HTW on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
SATERN is not accepting H&W inquiries INTO the disaster area on the air. These are accepted only on their web site.

They are accepting H&W traffic originating IN the disaster area.

Please do not check into SATERN with H&W inquiries into the Gulf coast area. They can't take it. There is NO WAY to deliver these messages. Think about it - some ham gets a H&W inquiry. He hops in his boat and rides around the streets of New Orleans for the next five days shouting "Anyone know John Jones? I have a message for him." There is no way for such inquiries to be handled.

Inquiries sent to the SATERN website will be handled as conditions permit, usually through local authorities such as fire, police, hospitals, guard. But the chances of such an inquiry actually being successful are incredibly slim.

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by WA4MJF on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Jim, the post was in response to a
ham who was watching CNN to get ham news.
I suggested that he go to the "right"
news network, FNC, if he wanted coverage
of the hams in action.

Call me whatever names you want, it makes
you look small, not me.

I stand by my statement.

73 de Ronnie

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by WA6BFH on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

It is good to know that Hams want to, and are willing to help! At this point in time though we need to keep cool heads, and wait to be specifically asked. We unfortunately cannot trust the “if it bleeds it leads” news media in their slanted reports. Let’s just wait until a coordinated effort asks for X number of Hams from each specific area that can provide ARES or RACES trained communicators!

Let’s be ready to help in these awful conditions, but keep cool and calm!
Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:40am(  
by KG4YJR on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Here's an idea folks although it may not be very popular with the majority of the "experts" on here:

Let's forget the blame games, who didn't do what, etc., what the hell does politics and blaming have to do with the situation at hand right NOW. Helping with this tragedy should be the number one priority of us as Americans period whether you're a ham or a duck. Let the politicians and those with agendas they want to exploit do their thing while the rest of us should be doing ours. Donate till it hurts. Get all that old junk that's been sitting around for years and have a big yard or ebay bargain sale and donate the proceeds.

After this is over and it will be a long time, maybe then we can worry and complain about who we voted for and what they should have done.

Opinions aren't helping but donations will. It's that simple but I know some of you truly feel that instead of money or any type of donations go, that your postings, blaming and bitching will make life better for those in need because you're so smart and self-glorified.
Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:40am(  
by W8KQE on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
CNN is awesome! Phenomenal coverage, and Anderson Cooper is the BEST.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by W4PA on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
[Jim, the post was in response to a
ham who was watching CNN to get ham news.
I suggested that he go to the "right"
news network, FNC, if he wanted coverage
of the hams in action.]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is FNC?

Scott W4PA
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by N4QX on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Those of us who are worrying about ham radio coverage on networks of any ideology have terribly misplaced priorities. I suggest that we are not the story here, nor should we be until New Orleans is evacuated, at the very earliest.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by WA4MJF on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Fox News Channel, Scott.

73 de Ronnie
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by N4QX on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
FNC = Fox News Channel
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by WA4MJF on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
KG4YJR, if you're referring to me,
I think there is enough blame to go
around for folks of every political
persuasion. Help has been very slow
getting to the folks in need.

I just made a simple observation that
CNN is left leaning and FNC is right
leaning, a fact, I think that most
folks who study them would agree to.

And let's not forget, they're businesses
and they play to their audiences so as
to get their bigger "share" at sweeps time.

Me thinks folks are reading more into what I
said than I did say.

73 de Ronnie
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by ARRLFAN on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Ever notice that it has taken 5 days to fnally get help into the disaster area but only a couple of hours for the Democratic party to get on TV and blame George Bush for the Hurricane becuase of his energy and global warming policy.

Last i looked it was George Bush and not Jesse Jackson, or Al Sharpton or anyone from the Democratic party leadership or Caucus that was in the swelting heat of New Orleans talking to the people that "they" take money from and are suppose to represent....

Anyway -- once again -- I know that Ham radio operators want to help -- but with no power -- what can amyone do --

I am just pised that FEMA and Homeland Security received BILLIONS and didnt do anything with it except buy nice office furniture for their fat white asses...

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by WA4MJF on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Well, Greta VanSusteren reported
last evning that, in fact, the Rev
Jackson did arrange for some buses to
transport folks from New Orleans to

73 de Ronnie
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by WA4MJF on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Well, Greta VanSusteren reported
last evning that, in fact, the Rev
Jackson did arrange for some buses to
transport folks from New Orleans to

73 de Ronnie
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by AA4PB on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I am just pised that FEMA and Homeland Security received BILLIONS and didnt do anything with it except buy nice office furniture for their fat white asses...
I'm sure that is fact you based on your full investigation of these two agencies.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by W6TH on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

It is time to form a new way to run our country and our Constitution says we can do it, without revolting. It is up to all voters. Your votes can form a new perfect union of your choice. Lets bring back America.

Wake up voters and get rid of these high paid senators, reps all welfarers, living off of the tax payers.

In fact, get rid of all government and form a perfect union; one where freedom for all and none of this what we have today.

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by KC8VWM on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"Anyway -- once again -- I know that Ham radio operators want to help -- but with no power -- what can amyone do -- "

So I guess hams don't have Solar Panels or other means of power or energy to operate thier radio equipment at thier disposal huh?

Boy, where were you on field day??

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by KG4YJR on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Howdy Ronnie,

No, I was not referring specifically and only to you my old friend. My goodness, talk about someone having such a high opinion of himself that they'd single himself out all alone and think everyone was talking to them exclusivly. Of course there is blame but that is for later in my personal opinion. When my neighbor's house caught on fire and I had to help the parents get a sick relative out of the house before the fire department got there it didn't concern me how the fire got started, were the kids playing with matches, was the wife cooking carelessly, etc. or how long it was taking the fire department to get there, I pay my taxes and they should be here by now, blah, blah blah. No sir, the only thing I cared about then as I do now is helping, saving lives, doing what's right to the best of my abilities instead of just making myself feel better by spouting opinions. You see where my priorities are versus the many on here.
Maybe when there is a time to blame, when it will actually do some good is election time when the people (victims) who have been directly affected by this and those who could possibly be in the future can judge how well the people they elected did for them and were they the best choice they could have made.

de Dave ;-)
Ham and Aloha Spirit alive in Gulf  
by G3SEA on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

I have been monitoring some of the HF Net's over there.

The Ham's involved are doing the best job they can which is all we can expect of them.

It's not really important whether CNN or Fox is covering Ham comms. Word of mouth will illuminate the work of Hams as well as ALL the good folk working in those terrible conditions.

The best most of us on the outside can do is donate money or time to National Organizations regardless of your Political persuasions.

This is NO time for Politics.This is a time for helping our fellow humans in a terrible crisis !!!!!

Please CEASE the squabbling and help ANY way you can !

The Ham AND ALOHA spirit is well evident out there in the Gulf so let's see it on the postings :)

RE: Ham and Aloha Spirit alive in Gulf  
by ARRLFAN on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Dude -- I don't think fricking solar panels are going to work when the damn ham radio antenna is gone and their antennas are in the other state......


Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 2:30pm(C  
by KG4YJR on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Anybody remember Bill Fisher, W4AN?
The guy who made this website and forums possible in the first place?

I just made a $50 donation in his name and was wondering if anybody else ready to step up too? Sure you can keep blaming everyone else but what have YOU done or what are YOU doing to help?

Gift Information
Amount: $50.00
Donation Fund: National Disaster Relief Fund
Honor/Memorial Gift: Yes

Honor / Memorial Information
Gift Type: In Memorial of
Name/Occasion: Bill Fisher, W4AN

Send Card To:
Name:, LLC
Address: 4600 State Route 26
City, State Zip: Vernon, NY 13476

RE: Ham and Aloha Spirit alive in Gulf  
by ARRLFAN on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!








RE: Ham and Aloha Spirit alive in Gulf  
by K3WVU on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I see our ol' buddy is back after being banned twice in the past couple of months.

You know the one; the little boy jumping up and down and yelling "look at me!, look at me!"

Sad, really sad.
RE: Ham and Aloha Spirit alive in Gulf  
by ARRLFAN on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

You must have lost count....

anyway -- are you wearing your little Orange Vest, ready to go???
Cool Heads and a Measured Response  
by WA6BFH on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

There is no flaw in the hardware that would be needed, or any practical approach as KC8VWM would suggest. I’m quite certain that even a Ham coming from another state could be up and operative at decent power levels, and with decent antennas in little more than a suitcase. We just need to be asked to make the trip by our Section Emergency Coordinator, or via our RACES sponsoring agency.
RE: Ham and Aloha Spirit alive in Gulf  
by KG4YJR on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
>>Sad, really sad<<

True but...


Now you've got to admit,

>>Thats funny, I don't care who you are<<
Larry The Cable Guy
RE: Ham and Aloha Spirit alive in Gulf  
by K3WVU on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Yep! It's him (it?)!
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by N6PSE on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
It is posts like your's that make everyone think that California is full of nuts, fruits and whacko's.

Freedom of Speech at work I guess.

N6PSE. Keep America Great!
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by K3WVU on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Yeah, he/she/it professes to be from California, to the chagrin of all sensible residents of the state, I'm sure. Never fear! Eham has done a pretty good job of taking out the trash lately, and I trust they will continue.

Now, about the topic of discussion, it seems to me that hams have done a good job in the present crisis. Just monitor some of the nets and you'll see what I mean. No one has gone running down there to 'play hero' and the SATERN and other emergency and health and welfare nets are doing a great job. If you'll notice, the negative comments about hams in general always come from those without callsigns.


Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 2:30pm(C  
by K0RGR on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
OK, guys - ARRL is looking for volunteers - here's your chance - go to the ARRL website !
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 2:30  
by WA3IRJ on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Only in America..

Let's cut the BS, and try and save some lives. We can play the blame game later.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by N6AJR on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Folks, please don't embarrase the rest of the hams by using this particular article to complain about the president, arrl, left wing'ers, right winger's, the dumbing down of ham radio, or other nonsense drivel.

Can we for once just stay with the topic of the disaster, and helping folks there who need a lot of assistance.

Also if you plan on going in to help a couple of important points.

1 you must be in good physical health.

2 you should be able to feed and water your self, and have a space available to sleep for 5 to 7 days.

3 you should bring in alternate methods of energy generation, wind power, solar panels, bike with an alternator attached.

4 realise that the folks is some areas will shoot you with their gun and take your vehicle, whether you are helping or not.

5 you will need to be a part of some group to help. like red cross, satern, etc.

6 you may not be able to get fuel for your vehicle with in a couple of hundred miles of the area.

7 If you are not going , please stay clear of the emergency frequencies, and there is a lot of them. listen, and only talk if you can truly help. For instance, if they are looking for a phone patch in sacramento, and you live in sacramento, and have a phone patch, then jump in and offer. if some one ask's you to qsy because you are interferring with emergency communications, say sorry, and move up or down 10 kc's. this is not about egos and being "cool" this is life and death.

Folks this is not a party. this is real life and you could die here. Just because you have a radio does not impress folks, you have to be well trained, have secondary abilities, like first aid, rescue etc.

If you go be prepared to see folks at their absolute worst. A lot of the Police in the area have turned in their badges. They too have lost everything and are being shot at by the folks they are trying to help. Why bother. so life is different in a disaster area.

how do I know, 1989 earthquake in california, I was working for Caltrans in S.F., as a Emergency Command Center dispatcher /trouble shooter for the earthquake team assembled day 1 to save lives and rebuild infrastructure. I worked in that capacity for 60 days, 12 to 15 hours a day. Belive me this is worse.

God Bless these poor souls.

tom N6AJR
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 2:30  
by KC8VWM on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I agree that hams have been doing a good job on the nets lately.

Just to add addional FYI to the thread, I have heard on the news that state authorities are looking to "ask" the "FCC" to establish a communication infrastructure for the area.

Could it be that this request to the FCC would include hams?

Be prepared. This may happen very quickly.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by WA6CDE on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Here is one for ya... that we still don't see any response on...

Why isn't the ARRL and the relief flights of GA aircraft working either or which is already trying to get orginized to help airlift by GA and remove people from the area... how come ham radio is not helping with the commucations... how come ham radio hasn't tried to work with the GA aircraft groups to help get what is needed into the city while they bring pax back out... hmmmmm.... could it be that its becasue its not a team effort ...or are they just too lazy... and really not meaning what they say... Ham radio and General Aviation should go hand in hand when it comes to emergencies... but, never does... Ham radio has a opertunity to ask what is needed now... and to make sure that the supplies are gathered, made ready to ship and working with the GA people... get it on board the right plane to get to the right people... who know its comming... and when... even if it was air dropped in... but how many hams are orginized to help transport supplies... outside the affected area.. or take the time to go ask for them... and secure them so they can be sent... This is what I am talking about... orginization... not impulse decisions... and most new hams don't understand how it works... nor want to put the time in to help... after all it doesn't get them any reconigition... or even proably a thank you... when it comes to the RC... a thankless job that no one wants to do... instead they want to run the operation... and get reconigition... well here is a clue... if its orginized and running good and you are making progress... in truly helping... you will get reconigition from the media.... but, even if you don't... and yes its hard long work... it makes you feel accomplished...

Sounds to me that most hams think that they are John Wayne... or superman.. here to save the day... and are content in flapping their lips.... but when it comes to really volenteering... doing the work... any real work... with the Salvation ARmy... or others... nada... why heaven forbid... instead they say well.... donate money... ya that helps... like 9-11 with the red cross... and their paid people thing huh... where a dime of every dollar got to the people it was ment for...

I agree... with others... now is not the time to start learning about emergency traffic... and best to just stay out of the way and let the people who are in charge do their job the best that they can... (next time we have field day... you might want to participate huh... and sample what its really like...) finger pointing is not what they need right now... if you don't like it... I suggest that when its over you join the emergency service group and help make it more efficent... as each event is different... before you go jumping to conclusions... best make sure you have the big picture... before you say people are dieing and not just some reporters heresay... pulizer award story...

And for those who get excited and really want to time... join the national guard... but, quit saying someone should do something or nothing is being done... unless your positive that it is or isn't... which means you would have had to be their... and we all know that is not true for most...
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 2:30  
by KC8VWM on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Tom, you make some excellent points. I have a similar EMS background as yours and the only thing I would like to add in addition to being well prepared in terms of fuel, equipment etc. is that one needs to be be mentally prepared to function for this event.

If you have never experienced this sort of event before then you are going to be in for an emotional roller coaster ride.

You WILL become distraught and you WILL feel hopeless at times.

You WILL become angry. You WILL become depressed. You WILL feel joy and sadness , mabey at the same time. You WILL feel rage. You WILL think about things that you have seen all day when you try to sleep at night.

You WILL be exposed to some of the worst things humanity has to offer. You will see dead bodies in the streets, dead children in the ruins, your mind will become distressed as you fight your emotions. You will become outraged.

You will be directly exposed to a very desperate situation. You will feel like you are in a third world country and everyone is fighting to survive like rats.

You have to be emotionally prepared to handle this in your mind. You have to have the unique ability to focus on your role and be capable of emotionally detaching yourself from your surroundings. Not everyone has training or the ability to do this.

Let me just say folks that this is not going to be a ham radio Disneyland as you know it.

You WILL become a changed person, your perception of the world will be altered - You WILL view humanity in a very different light forever. You will become very humbled from this experience.

Just be well prepared and our prayers will certainly be with you.
Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 2:30pm(C  
by N6AJR on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
UPDATE .. .. .. .. UPDATE .. .. ... .. UPDATE

go to this link and read some Local news, there is some good news and hope

this is from the local areas.. as per ARRL foward.

Via Gary Wilson, K2GW, South New Jersey Section EC:

The Hurricane Katrina Survivor List is currently operational at:

ARRL East Bay Section
Section Manager: Ti-Michelle Connelly, NJ6T

Update .. .. ... Update .. .. .. .. Update
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by WA6CDE on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Jeff asked in a email... so what would you fly in first...

First trip in... transistor radios... tied to little parachutes... cheep easy and not expensive... radio shack could donate them by the hundreds for pennies ... and make sure they all are tuned to one station...

use a airbone radio station to broadcast needed info and tell them that a few hand helds dropped close in to the med areas... with red or special color chutes... to be recoverd by the staff... so they can talk back... ask what they need and start gathering the supplies from outside... the impacted areas... if nothing more than to be delivered to the military helos to be transported to these facilities... Hams could orginize and do that... I would think... once they get the info out... to 'em...

Second trip... med supplies for the hospitals... and more UHF/VHF hand helds for contenued support... till the military gets the big birds in...

What your seeing Jeff is the american greed at work... no one is going to give something away when they can make money doing it... it becomes the bottom line issue... thus a shovel which cost 10 bux... because its in short supply now is going to sell for 40 or 50 bux... kinda thing... some people and companies always take advantage of the short fall and hardship of others... sad to say...

The salvation Army has that already in place... you might check out the (one of the better orginizations )

Yes people get excited suddenly and so you see the anxity (sp) that they generate... but, the logistics is what is lacking... Once they get the water breaks under control you will see the level come down and the truck start to roll...

Pictures of the area are on the web... go look up the sat pics... and you can see it daily... with good resolution on the computer...

Yes the biggest problem is commucations with the masses... thus the small transistor radios... air dropped in.. kinda thing... once they know where to go... to find help... they can get it themselves... instead of sitting their and being forgotten... Once others know where they are... yes then help can be offered to 'em... but, clearly its a confusing mess... the way the new media presents it... and instead of helping... they are too intrested in the sensasnalism (sp) of the story... I heard 'em say... these people need help... yet not a word of what kind of help they need... not a clue.. yet they keep repeating we need help... and when on another channel the new reporte interview a heavy set woman ... she said.. we need air conditioners... its hot ... its humid.. and I am not used to this... ahhhhhh ya right...

but, where are the big companies.. like Shell oil etc... besides raising their prices.. do we see them donateing fuel and supplies to the area to get Gens running ... for aircraft and emergency vehicles... not to pick on Shell alone... but, raseing the price of fuel is exactly what we need right now... after all are they too not in it to make a buck... hmmmm... as it appears soo... in this nation of me first...
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 2:30  
by N6AJR on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Oh how true. My "normal job" was Emergency responce ( tow service) on the bridges, and you must learn to function in emotional situations, you may have to hold someone's hand while they die, the turn around and driect some one to hook up the bloody car and get it out of here, once the body is removed.

You have to be a bit of an adrenalin junkie to love these jobs.The folks who work in the emergency rooms at night, cops, firemen, all adrenalin junkies, do it now, do it right, or some one is going to die. That is the ruler you get measured by.

Makes the squables here seem minor. I am retired now, and have great satisfaction from the help me and my crew did for folks in accidents, jumpers, suicides by vehicle, and all the fun stuff like help in delivering babies on the road way, ( less red tape than a hospital, and AAA picks up 80% :) ) and the great response my folks did in the earth quake, and more.

Been there, Done that, Got the T-shirt. You have got to be ready to put your life on the line to help some one else, a stranger, and do it day after day.

But you get to enjoy the warm fuzzies from making a difference at the end of the day.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 2:30  
by KC8VWM on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
My hat is off to you Tom. I've been there with you.

Charles - KC8VWM
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by AE6IP on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
> With all due respect, I would prefer to think of
> ways and see ideas on how we "CAN" help, as opposed
> to why we "CAN'T" help.

1) Get out your checkbook.

2) Give blood.

3) Cut down on your driving.

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by AE6IP on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
> Now I ask, would this same stupidity be
> demonstrated by FEMA officials if the covention
> center had an amateur radio station setup there?


FEMA's problems are structural. Plenty of people were already telling them that there were people in the convention center. Having one more relaying the same message would have made no difference.

If you _really_ want to help:

1) Get out your checkbook.

2) Donate blood.

3) Cut down on travel.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by AE6IP on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
> I represent the Northeast Illinois District...we in
> Chicago stand ready to help in the Gulf when we're
> needed.

Get your people to canvas for donations. Get them to donate blood and to canvas for people to donate blood. Get them to cut back on travel and to help convince others to do the same.

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by AE6IP on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
> Anyway -- once again -- I know that Ham radio
> operators want to help -- but with no power -- what
> can amyone do --

Get out your checkbook. Donate blood. Drive less. Encourage everyone you know to do the same.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by KC8VWM on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
If you _really_ want to help:

1) Get out your checkbook.

2) Donate blood.

3) Cut down on travel

... and this suggestion gets people rescued from thier attics and delivers supplies to people how?

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions, Your Job  
by N6AJR on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I sent off a check to a coordinator for the Northern California Contest Club for $25 made out to the Salvation Army, designated for hurricane relief, in support of our fellow hams in the south.

Now as an old retired guy I challenge each and every one of you to match that. Send it to the Salvation Army , Red Cross, or charity of your choice.

Even if its only a couple of bucks, if all two hundred million folks who live in this country sent in a couple of bucks , what a wonderful thing to support those folks with millions of dollars, a couple bucks at a time.

And for my part I will send you directions on how to make a fan dipole, ..:)

So folks write a check, put your call on the bottom, and show the world that Hams Care.

If this tired O F can do 25 bucks, so can you.. come on I dare you..naner naner..

Send money, donate blood, do what you can to help. It all counts.

And remember, your Mother will be Proud of you....
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by W8DPC on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
So far I've see that food is needed, clean water, sanitary conditions, and transportation. Lack of communication isn't the problem - lack of action is. You could put 1,000 hams down there, and what would it change? What would they do once they were down there, blow up inflatable rafts?
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by WA6BFH on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Well, this may soon turn into “Deliverance”!

Who can best squeal like a ham?

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by AE6IP on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
> and this suggestion gets people rescued from thier
> attics and delivers supplies to people how?

In a much more direct manner than putting the effort into getting a ham into a civic center where he'd just be another burden:

1) Get out your checkbook -- The _best_ thing any of us who aren't trained, certified, accredited search and rescue folks can do right now. Money in the hands of the Red Cross, or, especially, 2nd Harvest, is money in the hands of the people who can and routinely do get the supplies where they need to go.

2) Donate blood -- there's always a blood shortage in a situation like this. Helping with the blood supply helps relieve the logistics people of finding blood so they can concentrate on harder problems.

3) Cut down on travel -- helps reduce the gas shortage in the long run, making it easier to get the fuel to the people who fly the helicopters, drive the delivery trucks, an run the rescue launches.

Not only that, they're steps each and every one of us can take. No training required. No hardship, just some inconvenience.

And when the martial law situation ends, there'll be plenty of other ways to volunteer. Habitat for Humanity is going to have to build a lot of replacement houses, for example. But no matter what skills you have, even then, the three easiest and best things you can do are:

1) Donate money
2) Donate blood
3) Travel less
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by K4JF on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
<Holy Crap -- why did it take us SIX days to start relief ??? >

This was posted FOUR days after the hurricane, and THREE days after the levee break that caused the major problems. Having a problem counting?

Considering the massive amount of personnel and materiel, I think 3 days is pretty darned prompt. Something this huge cannot be started and stopped on a dime. For pete's sake, give those people who are busting their buns to help folks some credit!! And especially those Coast Guard heroes who repeatedly risked their lives bringing thousands of people to safe ground!!
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by AE6IP on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
As long as we're counting:

It's been _at least_ 20 years since engineers started warning that the levees weren't going to take even a cat 3 hurricane.

The NHC predicted landfall of a cat 4 or better along the gulf DAYS before it hit.

The relief effort should have been started days BEFORE the hurricane hit. Not days AFTER.

By all means, due credit to the people on the ground who are currently coping with the incompetence. But there's plenty of blame to go around.

The city of New Orleans for living in denial, and not having an appropriate evacuation plan.

The states of Mississippi and Louisiana for not having effective plans for category four or five storm land falls along their coast.

The states of Mississippi and Louisiana for not starting mandatory evacuation in the 80% zone two days earlier than they did.

The states of Mississippi and Louisiana for not starting the logistics of a relief effort the day it was clear that a category four or five was going to make landfall.

The states of Mississippi and Louisiana, and the President of the United States for overcommitting National Guard resources in a manner that deprived those states of critical resources.

FEMA for utterly failing to be prepared or act effectively.

The President of the United States for not acting decisively and effectively the day that NHC made it clear that a category four or five storm was going to make landfall.

The city of New Orleans and the Army Corp of Engineers for the entire levee system and its inadequacies.

The federal government for short changing disaster preparedness for ineffective "homeland security" expenditures.

and plenty more I've neglect to mention.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by AI4DG on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Anyone that thinks random hams rushing in to provide communications support could make a difference in New Orleans needs to listen to live scanner feeds:
There are plenty of functioning public safety radios in New Orleans. Their problems are much bigger.

There are certainly tasks that hams can and are accomplishing. Here's part of an email from my local ARES/RACES group on Wednesday:
"Hillsborough County ARES/RACES has been tasked by the Florida Division of Emergency Management (FDEM) through the Emergency Management Assistance Compac (EMAC) to deploy the State of Florida Emergency Deployable Interoperable Communications System (EDICS) and the State of Florida Mutual Aid Radio Communications (MARC) Unit to the Mississippi Gulf Coast in support of Hurricane Katrina recovery operations.

In addition to the public safety communications equipment we will be deploying, we will have team members aboard who can interface with Amateur Radio, the Military Affiliate Radio System (MARS), Civil Air Patrol (CAP), and the Federal government's SHARES HF radio system. After we achieve our objective of deploying the public safety radio systems, we will attempt to pass health and welfare traffic via amateur radio into and out of the hurricane stricken area. Our team will be deploying at midnight tonight from the EOC en route to the Mississippi Gulf Coast.

We have also been tasked with providing communications support here locally in Tampa for the National Disaster Medical System (NDMS) airlift of hospital patients from the flooded hospitals in New Orleans to local hospitals here in Hillsborough County."

That team are primarily there because they are trained and experienced in deploying those state assets. They are all active participants in the local ARES/RACES/Skywarn group and experienced communicators.

If you're feeling the overwhelming urge to help with this event and aren't involved in your local ARES or RACES or ACS group, get involved with them! You'll get trained and connected for the next event.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 2:30  
by AI6KK on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
For survivor lists and databases go to:
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 2:30  
by K3WVU on September 3, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
AE6IP, KC8VWM, and N6AJR have hit the nail on the head.
The biggest need now is $$$$$. There are a bunch of ways to donate. Another website to go to would be They are working with the Salvation Army to raise money. I believe Wal Mart has already donated $2 Million out of its own coffers.

If there's a lesson to be learned from this, it is don't depend on the government for anything. Government can help, and is, but there are too many people who have become too dependent on big brother. Be as prepared as you can for disasters so you won't be caught in the same situation as those poor souls on the Gulf Coast are.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by KG6AMW on September 3, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Thank you Martin for your positive comments - we needed them? Now go out and send a check and donate a pint of blood and do something positive.
Hurricane Katrina Communicaions -- UPDATED 9:00am  
by N6JSX on September 3, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I have a question that I've not directly read any where:

When will the FCC "declare" certian/specific freqencies for Katrina releated desaster traffic ONLY? This is our countries biggest natural desaster since WWII and I hear LIDs on the air messing with NETs.

We all have seen the slow response of the Fed's in supporting New Orleans (and more) is the FCC doing the same?
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions -- UPDATED 9:0  
by WA4MJF on September 3, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
All FEMA and/or state/local EM Directors
have to do is ask the FCC. The HF frequencies
will be in the 5 MHz range. I don't know how
many of those are being used. 5371.5, the one
that I monitor, has not been used as of yet.
The Declaration would not help nets in
operation on other HF frequencies.

The FCC is open through the Holidaze weekend.
If a net is having a problem, the Enforcement
Bureau number is on the ARRL website.

73 de Ronnie
FCC should find on those jammers  
by KB4IUJ on September 3, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
And then slap them with a hefty fine. All very do able.
Round up the few idiots that do that and make examples out of them.

I mean, why not. Cops fine people for speeding and those fines result into income for cities. What a better way to financially enhance the FCC ADF Program.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by KB4IUJ on September 3, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I'm surprised there isn't one website put up by the federal government, be it FEMA or whomever. Where in which people could post their names so relatives would know exactly where they are at.

I mean, is that a no brainer of a concept.

I see several website by MSNBC, WWLTV and a few others that offer this... but you'd think FEMA could have tossed one of these types of websites up, for any kind of a disaster...

Maybe even have it where they could upload a photograph of the individual.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by KB4IUJ on September 3, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
How many of you guys have driven to New Orleans as you'll remember most of the highway system is up in the air on a bridge going over swampland. The rest of New Orleans is low lying and no doubt filled with water.

The fact that the lake takes up a huge area.

This evacuation of the city is like a ship taking on water. Ya gotta get the excess ballast (civilian people) out of the way, before you can really establish fixing the city.

Remember life comes first, before material things.
Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:00pm  
by KU4UV on September 3, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I don't know if it has been posted yet, but ham operators got a mention on CNN's "How you can help," with Larry King tonight. George Hood with The Salvation Army mentioned the role of ham radio operators and the SATERN network. He also said that some 30,000 messages had been transferred so far. Nice to see ham operators get a mention on CNN.

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:0  
by W5HTW on September 3, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Recently a police officer here responded to a report of an armed robbery at a convenience store. First, this is highly rural country; the store is in a small town of perhaps 1,000 people, and far from any other town.

The officer, and some other officers as well, responded to the area to seek the robber, who was armed with a knife and was masked. I doubt they ever found him.

The officer later announced to dispatch that the female clerk was extremely upset that the police had not been on the scene sooner. As he put it, "She was very familiar with the 'f-word."

My feeling is this. If she had reported the robbery earlier, the police could have been sitting in the parking lot waiting for the robber to arrive. They would have caught him in the store. All they needed was for her to predict the robbery, so they could be on scene before it happened.

For two days, Friday and Saturday, the course of Katrina was crystal unclear. It still had the possibility of heading more northeast, toward a direct hit around Panama City. On Sunday, the course became more predictable, but even then, even in late afternoon, whether Katrina would hit New Orleans direct, or would pass to the east or west of it, was debatable. Any of the three paths were different scenarios as far as disaster response was concerned.

Yet, by Sunday midday, ALL residents of New Orleand were being told to evacuate. In fact, evacuation orders were in effect on Saturday, but it wasn't until Sunday morning that mandatory evacuations were in effect.

What does that mean? It means the damned people were supposed to get out! It means walk, crawl, ride with friends, take what public transportation might be available, and get the hell out. It doesn't mean sit on your porch and wait for the storm to hit.

The storm caused considerable damage, sure. But it was not until Monday afternoon that the levee was breached. There really shouldn't have been anyone in New Orleans by then, except emergency workers and those in hospitals.

People are bitching because: A thousand trucks loaded with 2 million MREs were not sitting outside New Orleans Saturday. People are bitching because the people in charge did not rebuild the levee Monday morning. People are bitching because airplanes were not landing in downtown New Orleans with food, medical supplies, water, free TVs, new guns, new cars, fancy clothes, new appliances, music CDs and the like.

If anyone, anywhere, could have had those truck loads of food in New Orleans faster, I'd vote for him/her for King of the Nation. That food does not automatically materialize the way the sidekick did in the western movies at the end of the show. This was NOT a movie. This was a hundred thousand people who not only should have known better, and who should have paid attention to the forecasts, but who were primed to bitch the instant they weren't getting what they needed.

If no one happened to notice, there was water on the streets. A LOT of water. Roads were washed out, bridges were out. If there had been truck loads of food (an impossibility) they couldn't have gotten in there anyway.

Some of these people expect New Orleans to be all spit shined and rebuilt by today. Some blame the President, some blame the governor, some blame the mayor. Some blame all three.

Not a damned one of them is blaming Katrina.

There are still people in Florida who have not recovered from the hurricanes of last year. My daughter lived in a camper trailer, with her husband and her daughter, for two months after Hurricane Charlie. Her home was destroyed. She had no electricity for two months, though a nearby relative did loan her a generator so she could refrigerate some food. She didn't get her home replaced until Thanksgiving.

My son, with his home recovering from Hurricane Ivan, just got his roof repaired in April of this year. The hurricane was in August of last year.

Geezus Christ. Instant rebuild is a dream. Instant recovery is a dream. Instant relief is a dream.

Hell, make 'em all hams, too.

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:0  
by WA6CDE on September 3, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Well... its one thing to provide help and another to help... from the word I got the people who are left their seem to be sitting on their butts and waiting for someone to bring it to 'em... so it becomes a thing of having someone help you out and also helping yourself... hmmmm...

I see the Red Cross and the ARRL are now doing exactly what we said... they are asking for hams to provide commucations at the relif centers for hourly accounting and request for materials and supplies... hmmmmm they are getting smarter ....

The airport now is getting relief aid into the area... but, not military planes but, commercial cargo planes are landing at a rate of 4 an hour... (why so few... well where do you want them to put the stuff with no trucks or equipment to disperse it... helos are doing a 14 hour day of delivery so it was said)....

The finger pointing is right now.... directly towards the mayor and the state goverment... FEMA and others are finding that the state has certified that things needed were up and running when in fact... they are finding out it was fraud... and a rip off of the taxpayers money... they used the money to build a sports dome... instead of re-enforcing the dikes like they applied and got money for ... it seems it was re-directed thinking that this storm would never happen...

no matter... after the smoke clears.. and the city is back into operation... I am sure they will start investigating who is at fault.. but, cleary its not the FEDs... here folks...

As to the high death rate... the word we got was... well a lot of those people who are still their sitting on their butts and pissing n shitting in the street...barking... wouldn't be... if the shelters were not in place... so the death count would be much higher had someone not thought of it... the reporte went on to say... some of these people think helping them is building them a new house free... furnished!!! No matter how much help you give 'em she contenued... it will never be enough.... hmmmm interesting... and in some cases true... as one has to make a effort to help themselves first...

As to the area flooded... go to the sat photos... as they are being taken twice a day... clearly you can see the water is going down... CNN said about a inch a hour... which means by next week truck will start rolling in...

So far the RED CROSS has collected .... over 32 million dollars in donations...

Things are looking up now... it just took time... to get it in gear... so one reporter said... hmmmmm....

hams are now being asked for... check out the ARRL web page... but, you have to provide your own transportation and funding is sketchie... at best...

Do you have your field radio box ready... Hmmmm.... this is not a test... or as the navy says... this is not a drill... it now has come down to hams putting up and doing what they were complaining about.. said one audio file... they all wanted to go... well now their being asked to sign up... and go... so lets see how many really are going too...

interesting on some of the comments... but, you guys missed the big one... of the century... VN... it was this way... almost daily... grin...
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by KD5DFM on September 3, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
no only based on the outcome you don't need to be Colombo to have common sense

I'm sure that is fact you based on your full investigation of these two agencies ------------------------------------------------------
AA4PB on September 2, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I am just pised that FEMA and Homeland Security

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by KD5DFM on September 3, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
and here i thought fox news was fair and balanced lol lol i know one thing they must get there news reporters from playboy , Women with brain apply at CNN , people with brain watch CNN , lemmings watch fox . either way to me both seem to make the news instead of reporting it .

>I just made a simple observation that
>CNN is left leaning and FNC is right
>leaning, a fact, I think that most
>folks who study them would agree to.
>73 de Ronnie
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by KG6AMW on September 4, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
What Ed said is correct. The level of destruction is very wide spread and any talk of criticism is silly. The response begins on a city level, then proceeds to the state level and finally to the federal level. The feds get involved when the first two are overwhelmed or can't deal with it because its too wide spread or that they aren’t properly staffed and/or organized. All three were a factor here. Don’t expect fed intervention for approximately 72 hours as they have to stage and move. So quit complaining and get going. If you can't help directly, do so indirectly. Donate a pint of blood and pick a charity to support. List of possible donor sites, American Red Cross, Salvation Army, Catholic Charities, Episcopal Relief, Mennonite Disaster Services, Mercy Corps, Methodist Relief, Samaritans Purse, Southern Baptist Disaster Relief and United Jewish Charities.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by KG6AMW on September 4, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Interesting to see which hams have common sense and which don't. Those fighting the ARRL battle here are not facing reality. Stop bitching and change your attitude. People are suffering and dying while you complain. Find a way to help or shut up and get out of the way while others work.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by K5UJ on September 4, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Hams at a distance from new orleans (swls and anyone else too) having trouble receiving the 870 KHz WWL, can now get WWL audio on 5835 KHz. I'm filing this at 0320 Z, 5 Sept.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by KG6WLV on September 4, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks for the tip on WWL audio. Used to be receivable out here in California, until their channel was "covered". S9 and very clear in the Bay Area. LSB
BTW, does anyone know how WWL has managed to stay on the air? Would love some information on that.
And lastly, two quick opinions:
People in America are really soft; we take for granted that our infrastructure will work ALL the time, and complain when it doesn't. That's just not possible when something of this magnitude occurs. And yes, we need to reduce our reliance on the electrical grid for our personal/national security. Solar panels will drop in price if we use them. They make good sense. That's what Field Day is all about -- being self-sufficient.
And yes, let's wait for the blame game later. I HATE GWB, but it's obvious any politician is "damned if he does and damned if he doesn't." If he shows up at a disaster area, he's grandstanding; if he doesn't show up he's insensitive. We can deal with him, FEMA, and all the rest later. Let's stay on task, folks. Screw politics -- if we can't do our best and let that stuff slide, WHEN can we do it?
I've been monitoring SATERN, and the ops are doing a great job. I'm sure all they care about is getting the job done, not getting props for it.
The ARRL can create a nice PR campaign LATER, and show the country what ARS is doing, NOW.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by KG6WLV on September 4, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Sorry, the WWL audio is not LSB, it's AM mode, broadcast by WHRI, World Harvest Radio.
Hurricane Katrina Communicaions -- UPDATED 10:00pm  
by N9ESH on September 4, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
To all you complainers about “Home Land Security”:

You must understand that their sole purpose is to make white people “feel safer”. Why else would they pay one billion dollars to a defense contractor to make 1000 airliners immune to shoulder fired heat-seeking missiles? (The program is called ManPads. Check it out.)

Whether or not you actually are “safer” is irreverent.
You will pay for it! Needed or not.

Now, don’t you feel safer after going through airport security?

Forgit communications, there is no money in it.

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions - UPDATED 10:4  
by WD4EBY on September 4, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
As I understand it, WWL-AM is still on the air using an aux rig and a longwire at the WWL-TV site, with one end of the longwire on the WWL-TV tower. The power and sked is unknown. Interesting arrangement as the two stations are no longer co-owned. Also, WWL-TV and WDSU-TV have been able to remain on-air. The other sites seem to ne QRT for now.

In our prayers for those in the Gulf region, let's expecially keep the local broadcasters in them. (Along with police, firefighters, etc.) They've chosen out of professional duty to put themselves at risk to keep the information flowing to those who can't get out.


Hurricane Katrina Communicaions -- UPDATED 10:00pm  
by VU2COC on September 5, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

1. DONT! If you have any medical problem--cardiac, Respiratory, Diabetes, allergy......

2. Decide what you can do, your field of expertise, whether you can operate on your own.

3. Find someone you know and depend on to accompany you.

4. Decide to be away for some specific time span, not a day or two.

5. Always carry personal supplies for that period of time. Be independant.

6. Carry water disinfectants -Halogen tabs for drinking water.

7. Carry antibiotics, antihelminthals, pain-relievers -- FOR YOURSELF!!

8. Torchlight and spare batteries.

9. Your Mobilephone with spare cells.

10. Personal ID cards. Contact numbers of utilities of the whole country.
You may not have a Phone book available there.

11. Some basic tools like a screwdriver etc. You'll never know. Specially if you are an expert: electrician, Mechanic, ...

12. DONT GO ALONE ! You may not be allowed in without some kind of authorisation.

13. Inform your Family and neighbourhood about your absence.


15. BE ASSERTIVELY MILD. Troubled people will listen to anyone who knows better. Its up to you to convince them that you know better.




RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by VU2COC on September 5, 2005 Mail this to a friend!




( sri sbt the capslock)
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by K5UJ on September 5, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
At 14:00 Z 5 Sept., WWL audio is now on 11.785 MHz.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by K5UJ on September 5, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
P.s. to answer question about WWL--I know they have the wire off the tv tower; don't know if they are using that--heard from a guy down there that their two towers stayed up. they were knocked off the air at first because a generator wasn't cranking up. an engineer was able to get to the tx site after a day or two and started the generator and put them back on with their DA array. Last I heard, they are running 27 kw to conserve fuel.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by N2KPE on September 5, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Hi OM....Tell me, is "FNC" you mention the Fox News Channel?? It's one of the few news channels I watch, and I have not heard ham radio mentioned there at all. I do admit I am not "glued" to the TV due to work and family commitments.

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by ARRLFAN on September 5, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
You guys are fricking morons...

So you want to drop some elderly white guys with orange vests with HF radios into an area where they are shooting and sniping at firemen and policeman....

hell 270 of the scared pathetic worthless New Orleans Police Department quit their posts and left thier community -- but you guys want to get in their and do WHAT???

Leave the rescue and comms to the professionals -- they have enough old men with Depend diapers on already to take care of....

No matter how many tims I hear this it still amazes me that you ham morons thinks that you actually have something to contirbute -- if you wanna-bes wanted to be policemen and firemen in the first place why didn't you ???

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions self centered  
by WA6CDE on September 5, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
James... yes it is true that the size of the situation is not being covered.... We had several Doctors who own skymasters have their planes taken to just outside MO... and staged... they went along with a sheriffs aero squadron deputy which joined them on the Jet flight to the area... and spread some great relief... that may have been the planes you saw... if you were in Baton Rouge

While it seems the news is concentrated on the siege of NO... there is a lot of other things going on and that is where were going now...

Some of you probably have been reading avweb... and others the angle flight, brothers keeper site... on these you will find the true relief efforts that the RED CROSS and others seem to be overlooking... While they are not allowing people to just go flying around the countryside... they seem to be taking registration of skymasters and calling for them to assist... provided your qualified... They are systematically going to each and every small airfield or town... that one could make a landing on... Their are many small airfields that have been active said one doctor... who landed their skymaster on a section of a useable runway where the words SOS were made out from the debree left... when they turned around several of the local constables or appointed spokes persons walked over to the plane... They asked if they had anything to eat... and/or medical supplies... the Doctor explained who he was and grabbed his Doc Blue bag... while the Deputy started unloading the plane... He said they were using wheel barrows and kids wagon's to move the stuff...

After attending to several sick people who had gathered at the airfield... they drained some of the fuel from the wing tanks to supply the people with some gas ... power is out.. water is being boiled... and they are doing the best they can... with what they have... He went on to say that its was over 5 days since they had any word about what was going on outside... they stripped batteries from all the equipment they could... and gave it to them so they could power their radio... and flashlights... He went on to say this is worse than third world Mexico... and has asked that the flying doctors join them...

What were clearly seeing again here from some of the reports... is lack of commutations... From the reports back... these people have not been told to go to the airport and wait their... for help to arrive... the Gov seems to have forgotten about them... and concentrated on the French Quarter... These are little towns cut off by flood waters... they have friendly people who really need help.

again the Hams have been talking about helping out... but, somehow the word is not getting back to them that they need to grab their backpacks, radios and go out with these missions to set up a commutations relief station... Most, as we are told , are being re-directed to moving supplies... or like the TSA... standing around... None want to go to the back country for fear of being alone... Yet they won't go up and go with a plane to set up some sort of ground commutations... these back country people have none... the stuff they did... has died from usage... Said Doc Red... when I talked to him on the cell phone...

They did however use the ICOM 706 on the 146.52 ham frequency and were hailed by a local ham in the back area... landed on a section of the town road... and again gave out what little supplies they are carrying when compared to the the masses of people who need help... but, were seeing that the aircraft radios and the people on the ground are again having a conflict... they said that they were continually scanning the CB band with the 706 on the channel 9 frequency... and getting calls for help as they flew over the back areas... marking them on the GPS so they can return or passed the info to the controlling agency such as the brothers keeper mission... but, as Doc said... its not just limited to radios... they get mirror flashes as they hear the big old skymaster making noise... with the props purposely out of sync... but, as he said.. they can only haul so much... and its just not enough.... He suggested that others with skymasters help too.. if they can... as from his point of view... things are not good... and he is very conservative... He went on to say... angle flight is working overtime... after regestering...pick a region.. and go fly their... similar to the old HoCheMn trail petrol's... doesn't matter where you want to start... just make sure its not a duplication of effort... and to debrief after every flight... he said that once they find one and call it back in on the radio... other planes are dispatched to take what is needed... to where they were... but, as he said... every landing in a strange area is a risk that one has to consider...and take safety measures against...

So what do they need.... well he said ... more skymasters... more medical people going along if they are to land... more canned food that only requires heating... and better commutations...

some planes with long range tanks are being used strictly for observation and identification.... he said they were carrying little CB radios and air dropping them to the people below... a lesson learned from brothers to the rescue group... Some are carrying water... others are carrying baby supplies... yet others are carrying food... and they are beginning to have call sign names... as they get re-directed while in the air by the observation/identification planes... He said it was reminiscent of the air strikes in VN... where the O2's would identify a mass movement.... mark the target and call for roaming strike forces... only this time its supplies...

He warned that its not for every one... and the group is making sure that pilots skills are not over looked... landing on a road one has to watch for telephone lines... that could be part down... fences which are too high alongside the roadway.... etc... they are doing a good job of briefing the pilots and making sure they don't become a incident... also... He said that any old military pilots would fit right in as it felt just like it was in VN again... (and yes he said he does carry personal arms just in case like the military did back then too for pilots...) but, said this is different areas... people seem to respect the help they are getting... and he has not had any bad experiances yet...

He said that the first time a new pilot goes out.. he is put with a supervisor... who is skilled already or has flown several missions to insure that the new pilot is qualified to do the job.... they have had several that they excused because they were not capable of preforming safely....

His first day he made 9 missions... Doc Gr... did 5 with his A-36... and they both are staying in a port shelter set up by the Salvation Army... He said the national guard and costies are also now starting to work with the Angel flight groups... but, again... commutations is difficult.

so where are these Hams....that are supposed to be helping... he said... He also said one place they were hailed by a flashing mirror.. the guy was sending in morse code... hmmmm good thing he knew it... as they had a seriously injured person... that they brought back with 'em... and had he not know code... he said he would have flown on... When I asked who it was that sent the message ... he said he never met 'em as they landed on a road next to a store... loaded up the woman... and left after again stripping the flashlight batteries from the planes units...

I asked if the Guard is flying back to these places... and he said that they don't have much range... the places are out of fuel and so they can't sometimes go where the planes can...and do... but, with the influx of the Golly Greens... and Chinooks... they said they should start to be able to range out... some are staging at Baton Rouge as fuel is available their in all av grades.

so their you have it... some of what were hearing back and being told... its the outskirts and further inland that now is the missions... outside the TV new sensationalism... stuff...

Again in this disaster were seeing groups... not working togeather as a team... due to a lack of prior training...

So James are you going to go volunteer...

If so... I am sure they can use the help... as the flooding went way back up into the states.... and airlifting supplies from outside the bodering states could be set up as a supply line... to the staging area... for others to distrubute... as needed... blood and other time life limited supplies also are items... but, again commucations is a problem... and the Ham radio people would be good at this... boyscouts, and other service orgs... for gathering up items at home... delivering it to the airfields for you all to pick up... and take to the staging area... but, were not seeing this happen... knowing what to bring is a big question... which from doc blu... we know already that D, AA and 9 volt batteries, food, drinking water.. and purifiers are in short supply to the outlineing residents... but, again... contacting the local agencies that are set up at the staging area are better to know what they need... because they are talking to pilots who have been their and know.... than say the RED Cross.... which generally doesn't have a clue... but, walk around with donuts and coffee for the workers...

when this is over.. some discussion on the Air Ground comm should be covered for the next event....

I laughed at how the ARRL president has ORDERED HAMS... to do what.... ya right... what a joke... probably another red cross socialite groopie... he hasn't got a clue as to what real hams are doing... or needed to do... So to promote himself.. he is going down to do a photo op and get his picture taken with the troups... (Does he get paid for being pres) while promoting his ARRL cronies... Don't ya just love it... clearly he has heard the expressions before... but, does he volenteer....ahhhh I think not unless its for show... hmmmm... who do you think is going to be at the awards banquet that the Red Cross will hold... patting each other on the back... saying good job... after its all over... and again get his mug shot taken... Bastard... is too nice a word for him... geee I can't imagine why no one likes him outside his ARRL minions...
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions self centered  
by W6TH on September 5, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

My wife and I followed the Hurricane Katrina and the three day mandatory warning to get out. We could not believe that so many refused to leave and to know what was ahead for disaster.

Now, who is to blame who?

Seek and ye shall find, ask and it shall be given unto you.

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by WA6CDE on September 5, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
this is the type of people your going in to help... in NO... wow... from the news on TV...they sound like they are really intelligent... Of course they don't relize that it is stereo typing them... and showing the rest of the world exactly what caliber and type of people they are... Some have said.. a inch above your average nut.... others have said... that it clearly shows what kind of race it really is... Either way the media coverage is not complete. About Thurs the law will storm back in and take control of the city said one... as they are sending enforcements to attack the bastards... With orders to shoot to kill.. seems like that is about the only thing they saddly understand. The pictures are showing what these people clearly have said they were better than that... and don't want others to judge them by... a little hard not to... when they are the ones shooting and killing and stopping the aid from getting in... to their own people. So whos fault is it... then... Clearly they are setting opinions of their race back to the stone age; darwinism...survival of the fittest said another at the sports bar today... and then they wonder why...they are not respected...

Takes a lot of smarts to shoot up people who are trying to help... such as in this case...

Rescue Helicopter Downed In New Orleans
Pilot, Crew Rescued

A helicopter participating in the relief effort for those
stranded by Hurricane Katrina in the flooded, decimated remains of
New Orleans crashed Sunday night, approximately four miles
northwest of the downtown area.

The pilot and crew were rescued by a hovering Coast Guard
helicopter. Their conditions were not immediately known, nor was it
known which organization was operating the helicopter.

Images broadcast on television show what appears to be a
Eurocopter AS332 Super Puma lying on its side in a
debris-strewn street. The Super Puma is used by several European
agencies, and is also popular with oil-rig operators.

While the circumstances surrounding the crash are not yet known,
throughout the past week several helicopters have come under fire
from frustrated and desperate New Orleans residents, while those
helicopters were attempting to drop supplies and pick up survivors
of the massive storm.


Ya it will be bushes fault for not holding their hands... or something...

They are showing the world exactly what kind of people they are, loosing respect of others... and saddly hurting the very people they claim to be wanting to have help for... It is very sad to see happen in this country... buy a few selfcentered selfish people... but, I guess that is life in the big city now a days... I don't know about you.... but, I sure as heck won't donate to that...
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by K4RAF on September 5, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I have heard from some of our field people deployed down to MS & LA in recent hours:

A) If you try to enter affected areas, AND you are NOT armed, you will be turned away at the checkpoints by the police & the miltary. They can not guarantee your safety so you just won't enter the danger zone.

B) If you have no official capacity or purpose, you will be turned away.

C) If you are a ham, with inflated delusions of grandeur, please refer to A & B...

The shelters are handing out email forms, not message traffic forms, to contact loved ones telling them they're OK. Listening to both NTS & those "hurricane nets", I have to ask just what is being accomplished from outside the affected areas?

It is time for some innovation, like a geostat similar to the milsats, where all you need is a foldup antenna to point & shoot. HF, voice nets & traffics forms are not only old, they are outdated.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by ARRLFAN on September 5, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
well i was was watching FNC tonight and one of the refugees that everyone is trying to help wanted to know where his money is at ... he said the world trade center people got paid 3 million dollars and he thought for sure that they should get at least 500K with all the money hat is pouring in ...

and you guys want to risk life and limb to help fools like this???
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by WA6CDE on September 5, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Ya NBC had a special on TV... and sure enough they had a congress woman on who said it was the whites fault for leaving the poor behind... ahhhhhh

Well not exactly... as it seem the Mayor.. (who is also black) elected not to use public transportation to help the "poor" (as they are not minorities with 57%) get out of the city... strange.. she never mentioned that huh...


The NAACP now is saying we should not be finger pointing at the poor or blacks.. instead we should be focusing on helping them get re-established... Welfare centers should make special efforts to get these people money so they can live... Hmmmm what about the broken laws... to which they replied... well they only did what they needed to do to survive...

I almost fell out of the chair... when they said that...

However, the RED CROSS is not using hams to handle the health and welfare traffic.. nope.. they are using computers... taking pictures of each refugee and posting it on the computer... and transmitting it through the internet.. so other shelters can show it and have family members get back togeather... ham radio is not being used... periode... except for emergencies...

So exactly what are hams doing... well... for the RED Cross...they are working computers and doing basically fileing... keeping inventory of who is where... and being go-fers if a phone call comes in... sorry boys... ya been out moded...

Things are setteling down... as families are displaced to other states... as one said.. were at the yellow level now... once the rebbels found out that the law was coming in force.. they have allmost disapeared back into the masses... and are hopeing to be relocated...

And yes I saw the same jerk saying .... where is the money...

Next is going to be the ID theft run wild... with goverment checks being lost... or misplaced...

Construction materials will be in short supply and get ready for a 25% cost increase in just about everything... from food to fuel... and power (elect)

and who is going to help you... ??? Just think... with all the money the Rec Cross collected... each man, woman and child... could get at least $10,000 bux... Oh ya I fogot the RC overhead cost... well ok.. it figures out now that each one can have a dollar... after taking out the overhead... wow... them banquets cost a lot of money for them little toad chickens...

Oh well back to the hobby of just being a ham radio operator... and fighting with the ARRL over their new band plan... grin...
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions  
by ARRLFAN on September 6, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
well it was President Bush's fault since according to the Black Caucus on FOX a few minutes ago his energy policy caused this hurricane -- and then his economic policy caused them to have to break into WalMarts for 32 in TV -- and it was his policy that made 250 New Orleans PO leave their job like cowards --

yesterday i hurt my back -- guess it was Bush's falt for making the grass grow which caused me to have to mow it...

but hey -- wheres my money
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions self centered  
by WB9NJB on September 6, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Although this site was once interesting and entertaining, it has devolved into a mean spirited screed. It is unfortunate that some non-ham might stumble upon this site and go away with a poor impression of our hobby. I operate almost every day on HF, and the good news is that I rarely encounter the morons that inhabit this site. Surely, we can do better than this. The hobby is generally healthy and populated by good people doing good things. You would, however, never know that by reading the posts by the usual suspects here.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions self centered  
by K3WVU on September 6, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. Eham should do more to moderate to site. They told me once that they like to make it 'edgy', but the way it is now, they are really damaging Ham Radio's image. Most of the damage, of course, is being done by non-hams who are allowed to lurk here. I belong to several sports boards that are tem times more civil and professional than this one, but the difference is that those boards are MODERATED, and idiot posters are soon banned. The founder of this board, Bill Fisher, must be turning over in his grave.

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions self centered  
by ARRLFAN on September 6, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
so which is worse -- people who simply have a handle like me - that are hams but rather not have my persoanl info hanging out there --

or folks who have simply made up a callsign??..

anyway --

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions self centered  
by KILOWATT on September 6, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Why is someone that states a not-so-popular opinion considered to be a moron?

I don't consider myself to be a racist in any way shape or form but you have to admit, blacks do have a tendency of showing their rear ends at the first sign of crisis in this nation. Watts, Rodney King, the great New England black out and now Hurricane Katrina. I know they're not all bad but sadly, the "bad" ones are ruining it for the rest. Every time their people make a little headway in our society, something like this comes along and completely destroys all of their efforts. Sad.

I understand you wanting to keep this site at a gentlemanly level but people have to be allowed to speak their minds. Do you mind as much that the blacks in N.O. are blaming us? The whites?? Why is it always considered O.K. whenever minorities attack white people? No one ever seems to be offended at that.

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions self centered  
by KG6AMW on September 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Put away your petty differences because time is genuinely of the essence across the entire region, and no matter how outrageous the charge and how tempting the desire to refute, the energy wasted on that is energy not put into the relief effort.
RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions self centered  
by WA6CDE on September 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Don't ya just love 'em... (KG6AMW) The parrots of society... can't think.. can't speak... and like our bud here... waist the time they say they are saving...

I guess it is right... some people like AMW take 50 words to say what a normal person can in TWO... which I am sure others have relayed on to him...

Katrina... has brought out the best and the worst in all of us... the politicitans for stealing.. and not doing their job.. (whats new) protecting their bottoms and families above the rest of the masses... because they are "Important people" (so they think)

The... homeless.. who now are also trying to get in on the money and help for places to live... claiming that they were their...

The refugees... the same people who said... ahhhh the weather service always hipes it up... (where is that guy the new interviewed now... probably in the hand out line...

And the ones that really are the victems here.. the ones that lost their houses... (they are the ones I really feel sorry for.. they had their whole life in what they had... and worked hard to get it... while othes just stood around and had their hand out for a freebie... every month...

Yet of all these people it seems that the only ones that are in our faces on TV are the ones demanding we take care of them... again a free ride...

Some of the people who have tried to help... are now having second thoughts about it... as we are begining to see exactly what class of people some of these are...

As to the hams... well... here on this board we have seen the impatent... the John Waynes and Rambos... people who want to promote their hobbie into what it once was... living in the past... they think they are going to save the day with their radios... and yet havn't got a clue as to what is really going on down their... but they have THEIR IDEA... that they demand others comply with...

Then we have the groupies... the ARRL is GOD people... and nothing is going to make them wake up and smell the roses... why they are taken by the hand and led down the garden path... all while someone else is in their back pocket... but, they feel good because they are getting stroked and as always... if the pere pressure is good... then they comply and want to add their two cents in to show they are a flag waver also... They wouldn't know if the devel himself was leading them.. so long as its a group that they can say they belong to... and get some sort of badge or patch to put on their sleve so when in the crowd they can claim superiority...

And all while this is going on... we have the hecklers and ego crackers... you know the ones who alway jump in like our buddy listed above... with a half witted idea yet they like to see their name on the roster as being a contrubutor... and name caller... yet what did they add to... or contrubite... nada... which is about what they are worth also...

Look folks.. Ham radio has evolved... its not WW2 or the big one anymore... while it has some use... it is very limited... and is a HOBBY not a way of life... it is something to "PLAY WITH"... so remember that when you go charging off to assult the windmills on the hill ...

And then we have the dooo gooodier... the ones saying go donate blood... why... is my first answer.. these people didn't get hurt... duhhhh... they are just sitting around waiting for someone to give them another handout... food and shelter mainly... so these jerks who are saying go give blood... ahhhhh... what ever....

As to the donate money... you have a short memeory about 9-11 don't you... something else that most of the dooo gooddiers seem to have... is a short memory...

When the Firemen collected all that money for the people in NY... where did it go... how much did the RED CROSS give out... why did the head of the red cross based here in the US resign shortly their after... (the red Cross is not a US group.. did you know that... check it out it is based in EU... dummy) But, the amount of money collected... vs what was "LOANED" back out... was about a dime on the dollar collected... pretty good return for them I would say... and when the firemen wanted it back... the red cross said NO... you gave it to us.. its our money to do with as we see fit... but, hey its a groupie thing... and while the stupid people don't think about it... it does make them feel good to give to someone... even if its not what they really think it is...

And to think some of these creatons are saying .. hey lets give 'em more... ahhhhh well not me... dudett... least the Salvation Army has a better record... 90% goes to what they collect it for... and not high end paychecks... like the people in the Red Cross do... (ever wonder about the RC... here they run around and get volenteers to do their work.. for free... while they get paid... the big bucks... and sit in the AC trailer.. feeding their faces.. and laughing at the volenteers who think they are going to amount to something... but, who gets the prize and reconigition.. not the volenteer... nope .. the PAID RC yo-yo... wow talk about being a smart person.. they should get the prize after all they convienced the volenteer to foot it on their own... while they get paid... who really is the smart one in this ...hmmmmm think about it dudett)

Ya the world is watching... and talking... and some can even read...

Without the ARRL some hams would be lost in space... and probably the rate of stupidity would go up... as they ask.. whats going on... where am I... hmmmmmm....
Mahalo to W5JMT Baton Rouge !  
by G3SEA on September 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

For an EchoLink Repeater contact which resulted in locating a Cajun Lady friend I had met in London and lost contact with. She and her town of Sunshine were spared the Katrina onslaught.

Mahalo Amos! That's the Ham and Aloha Spirit ! A box of Macadamia Nut Chocs are on the way to him and my Cajun friend :)

73 & Aloha


RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions self centered  
by K5FZ on September 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

I have two suggestions for you:

1) Go back to the second grade a learn how to spell.

2) Pull your damn head out of your ass, or install a window in your belly button so you can see what is going on (It's really gotta be dark in there).

This is probably the biggest friggin' disaster that has hit this country since WWII and you are sitting on your butt throwing stones at everyone but your mother.

The amount of emergency traffic that has been handled by amateur radio during the early hours of this crisis is nothing short of phenomenal. 911 calls from the worst areas were routed out of the area and the only way to get them back in, was via amateur radio.

You need to get your meds checked, and while you are at it get a life.

People are working very hard to try to save lives and ease suffering and you've got nothing better to do than bitch about stuff that you don't have a clue about.

Have a great day.
Hurricane Katrina Communicaions -- UPDATED 3:30pm  
by K2JX on September 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

From what I have been hearing on 20 and 75 meters, you all can be proud of your service to the victims of Hurricane Katrina. You've done well for this hobby, I hope those in power take notice of your efforts. Surely those you've aided have.

73, and good luck,

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions self centered  
by WA6CDE on September 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Hey K5FZ... I see you just got your call... jerkmnooo... awwww geee must make you feel really important... huh... prob a reformed CB'er... frankly

your not impressing me.. with your ego crap... and the fact that your a ARRL kissup as well as your butt is sucking pond water... (I guess they are still looking for the gerble that you lost up their... poor thing probably now has lost its way running around inside... tell us.... does he still give you the cheap thrill that you used to get when he first was inserted... by your buddy... ) Hey grab another beer dudett... your beginning to stumble around again... Tell ya what... add some draino to that header you have and you should get some relief...

Is it really true that your love left after he found the hair of the dog on your lips... and what about them white spots... are they RF burns or just where your sucking... ( the mic is supposed to be in front of your face not your other face... LOL)

I have suggestions for you too:

1) Pull your damn head out of.... your.... ass and get a life... I am sure reality is a little hard for you to comprehend and I can understand.. now knowing where your background is from... but hey then again I am sure your have a real hard time thinking without it causing a lot of pain... huh...

This is probably the biggest friggin' disaster that has hit this country since WWII...

(OH what about 9-11 or the cane the happened in 1969... wasn't.... see numnut you really don't know what your talking about... huh... again your reading it from the TV new... come on admit it... you know nothing about the subject... and in reality just flapping your lips... to make yourself out like the BMOR... ahhhh go back and get an nother beer out of the refer... and you might want to quit smoking so much of that damm hemp rope your growing out back... its beginning to effect your ability to stay in touch with reality... dudett...

and you are sitting on your butt throwing stones at everyone but your mother.

Hmmmm from Fox News ... looks like you guys are the ones sitting around... Hey Hey look at the time... better get old blue grab the shotgun and head of to get dinner there hick... you know how to do that at least don't you... or should we send in the RED CRoss to spoon feed you again... ya made such a mess all over last time... its going to be harder to find someone to hold the bottle up... and geee maybe they will read you a story that you can relate to... something like see dick and spot... spot with a smile on his face holding a gerbal by the tail... is going to do what with it to you.... no spot don't put another gerbal up their again... you have put two many... in already... better light a match so he knows which way to come out... but, heaven forbid... don't fart or you will have a blowout... bigger than a oil well in Iran and burn the hair right off old spot... then who will be your best friend... Spot won't like being hairless and looking like a post tootsie...

The amount of emergency traffic that has been handled by amateur radio during the early hours of this crisis is nothing short of phenomenal. 911 calls from the worst areas were routed out of the area and the only way to get them back in, was via amateur radio.

Really... you would have to prove it their garbage mouth... I don't see it.. nor do I think you can prove it... so clearly it appears that your blowing smoke up peoples butts again...

If in fact they were making 911 calls how come they were talking to hams... instead of the ESO... hmmmm... you really need to stop listing to just part of the news... and sleeping through the rest... you need to get the rest of the story straight... as 911 calls first off if they were happening... and the towers were still up... would have been handled by the EOC...and ESO... (duhhhhh)... but, if they went down.. then how can a cell phone have such range and be able to contact hams when they are on a totally different frequency... again (duhhhhhh) Then you made the statement... that they were .... from the worst areas were routed out of the area and the only way to get them back in, was via amateur radio.... you mean that the rest of the telephone and comm systems that the EOC have.. were just so much junk... ahhhhh... I think my phone is working... and I think the other states phones were working... so exactly what is your trying to prove here... that someone with a handheld was saving the day... attttt nope again your out playing with Alice and the cat dudett...

Tell ya what... you come back and prove that your right... as we listened to the frequencies... and so far your about as dead on.. as star trek was reality...

again you know nothing about what you speak of JR... you clearly are reading the script from the news of the ARRL... and getting spoon fed (like you probably do) or your sucking from one of those ARRL nipples... off the bitch again... grin...

You need to get your meds checked, and while you are at it get a life.

No I suggest that you go check into the nut house as your clearly a little disturbed... and are again having illusions of grander... about the truth hmmm... don't worry their little one.. your mammies will be along shortly with Big Daddy ARRL...

People are working very hard to try to save lives and ease suffering and you've got nothing better to do than bitch about stuff that you don't have a clue about.

(again your illusions of grandeur are way out their with Scottie in space if your referring to hams... ) Last time I checked ... the national Guard was flying helo's and doing all the good work... but, you brought it up.. so lets see you prove that statement you made... show us the hams ... tell us where they are working... and what they are doing... to be so proud of them... Oh and while your sitting on your fat butt... in your house with the AC on... watching TV and bragging on your ham radio about how your so righteous... and how the ARRL is playing
GOD... maybe you can illuminate us all as to exactly what it is your doing to help... besides donating blood and probably some of your welfare check...

Really... well again prove that they are... show me where the hams are working so damm hard ... and where they are saving lives... bet you can't can you...

I know I know.. your worried about your supply of little gerbals being cut off.. and that probably could lead to your having to go out and do something you have done before... but hey try to control your urges and not become a sexual predator in the neighborhood again... (ever notice how the neighbors are probably whispering things behind your back... could it be they also know your record and are wondering why so many gerbals are showing up in the trash cans... geeee next they might think you one of them their perverts that play on their radio all night loony.. messing up their tv and weird noises come out of your hole in the ground... huh... Ya I am sure they are saying your a real ASS-et to the neighborhood because you have a radio huh... )

Bet you can hardly wait till it gets dark to start the fun with Greta the blow up... do all...super D battery size all night fun doll... now that the sun spots have killed the band... and spot really is burnt... over the gerbal match ya farted thing... geee oh what.. oh what... to do... to kill the time... bet you know some pointers huh... I am sure others along with me...salute you with the international peace sign over our rising moons for your gallent efforts... dudett...

RE: Hurricane Katrina Communicaions self centered  
by WA6CDE on September 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
No Jack I am sure he doesn't know who I am... and what we have been doing with the aviation relief part of the incident...

nor does he know proabably what really is going on or went on.. gets his news from CBS (commie broadcasting system) and like so many, including the congress lady, hillery and the mayor of NO, who you already have illueded to... he joins the democrats and dummys of the country to make a case of their own narrow minded superiority... only in america...

But, Richard thinks he does... and hey at his age... what else does he have going for him... he has his little ham radio... lives in the past... he thinks is important to save the world... probably a small dog for his best friend... and a social worker... that comes to visit once a week... :) Ya Ya I know I am not supposed to make fun of the handicap...
RE: Time to delete some of these messages  
by KB4IUJ on September 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Which are getting a bit old to scroll through. Or put the newer messages at the top.

I mean, after a few days, their like old bread. Still edible, but they've lost their freshiness.
RE: Time to delete some of these messages  
by K5FZ on September 8, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

1) I am not an ARRL member, nor do I support many of their polices.

2) I am probably younger than you are.

3) I have not been involved in any of the communications relating to the disaster, I work 60+ hours a week at a real job.

4) I have listened to quite a bit of it in the evening and I know the guys involved are doing a hell of a job.

5)I know guys from down there that have lost most of what they have, and are still involved in trying to pass health and welfare traffic for those who may have lost family and friends.

6) I have family that lived in the area who evacuated early, who had homes and businesses in the area, who had insurance and are now considered refugees. They are not waiting on the government to do anything

7) I am a conservitive republican.

8) I have never met your girlfriend Greta.

9) This disaster is not about me OR you.

10) I am done with this thread, it is a real waste of energy.

Enjoy your bitter little life and get a good supply of stones to throw.
RE: Time to delete some of these messages  
by K2GW on September 8, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Between trying to get support additional relief operators down there
to help, this is obviously a topic of conversation among those of us
experienced in Disaster Response. I've yet to find anyone, of any
political orientation with such disaster response experience, who
doesn't see that the primary problem in all this started at the
local and state Emergency Management levels. There's no question
that FEMA should improve their ability to help when local and state
goventment fall flat on their face, but that wasn't the primary
cause of the problem. But it seems people with a previous political
agenda want to use this tragedy for other purposes, hence the
confusion over the Federal governments responsibility in a disaster.

It get worse when you read the following article. Apparently, the
problems in evactuating the poor were pointed out to the city in
past emergergy drills and hurricanes! And their own plan wasn't even
implemented! Now that's beyond incompetance; that's almost

Blame Amid the Tragedy - today's WSJ opinion

Blame Amid the Tragedy
September 6, 2005; Page A28

As the devastation of Hurricane Katrina continues to shock and
sadden the nation, the question on many lips is, Who is to blame for
the inadequate response? As a former state legislator who
represented the legislative district most impacted by the eruption
of Mount St.Helens in 1980, I can fully understand and empathize
with the people and public officials over the loss of life and

Many in the media are turning their eyes toward the federal
government, rather than considering the culpability of city and
state officials.

I am fully aware of the challenges of having a quick and responsive
emergency response to a major disaster. And there is definitely a
time for accountability; but what isn't fair is to dump on the
federal officials and avoid those most responsible -- local and
state officials who failed to do their job as the first responders.
The plain fact is, lives were needlessly lost in New Orleans due to
the failure of Louisiana's governor, Kathleen Blanco, and the city's
mayor, Ray Nagin.

The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not
belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state
officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial
first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by
local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the
state governor and his/her emergency operations center.

The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a
national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously
established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and
Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of
the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written
plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people.
The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in
the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been
implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a
simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread
flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The
exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents.
The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not
solved. A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans
ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help
people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were
unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and
did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin
acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did
not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane
George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and
vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these
problems were not corrected.

The New Orleans contingency plan is still, as of this writing, on
the city's Web site, and states: "The safe evacuation of threatened
populations is one of the principle [sic] reasons for developing a
Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan." But the plan was
apparently ignored. Mayor Nagin was responsible for giving the order
for mandatory evacuation and supervising the actual evacuation: His
office of Emergency Preparedness (not the federal government) must
coordinate with the state on elements of evacuation and assist in
directing the transportation of evacuees to staging areas. Mayor
Nagin had to be encouraged by the governor to contact the National
Hurricane Center before he finally, belatedly, issued the order for
mandatory evacuation. And sadly, it apparently took a personal call
from the president to urge the governor to order the mandatory

The city's evacuation plan states: "The city of New Orleans will
utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate
threatened areas." But even though the city has enough school and
transit buses to evacuate 12,000 citizens per fleet run, the mayor
did not use them. To compound the problem, the buses were not moved
to high ground and were flooded. The plan also states that "special
arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport
themselves or who require specific lifesaving assistance. Additional
personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as
needed." This was not done. The evacuation plan warned that "if an
evacuation order is issued without the mechanisms needed to
disseminate the information to the affected persons, then we face
the possibility of having large numbers of people either stranded and
left to the mercy of a storm, or left in an area impacted by toxic
materials." That is precisely what happened because of the mayor's

Instead of evacuating the people, the mayor ordered the refugees to
the Superdome and Convention Center without adequate security and no
provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions. As a result
people died, and there was even rape committed, in these facilities.
Mayor Nagin failed in his responsibility to provide public safety
and to manage the orderly evacuation of the citizens of New Orleans.
Now he wants to blame Gov. Blanco and the Federal Emergency
Management Agency.

In an emergency the first requirement is for the city's emergency
center to be linked to the state emergency operations center. This
was not done.

The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a
state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush
declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the
only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to
request the specific type of assistance she needed. She failed to
send a timely request for specific aid. In addition, unlike the
governors of New York, Oklahoma and California In past disasters,
Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that
the state emergency operation facility was in constant contact with
Mayor Nagin and FEMA. It is likely that thousands of people died
because of the failure of Gov. Blanco to implement the state plan,
which mentions the possible need to evacuate up to one million
people. The plan clearly gives the governor the authority for
declaring an emergency, sending in state resources to the disaster
area and requesting necessary federal assistance. State legislators
and governors nationwide need to update their contingency plans and
the operation procedures for state emergency centers. Hurricane
Katrina had been forecast for days, but that will not always be the
case with a disaster (think of terrorist attacks). It must be made
clear that the governor and locally elected officials are in charge
of the "first response." I am not attempting to excuse some of the
delays in FEMA's response. Congress and the president need to take
corrective action there, also. However, if citizens expect FEMA to
be a first responder to terrorist attacks or other local emergencies
(earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes), they will be disappointed.
The federal government's role is to offer aid upon request.

The Louisiana Legislature should conduct an immediate investigation
into the failures of state and local officials to implement the
written emergency plans. The tragedy is not over, and real
leadership in the state and local government are essential in the
months to come. More importantly, the hurricane season is still upon
us, and local and state officials must stay focused on the jobs for
which they were elected -- and not on the deadly game of passing the
emergency buck.
RE: Time to delete some of these messages  
by WA6CDE on September 8, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Richard... no its not that I am throwing stones... but, instead pointing out deficiencies in the system...

No I though she was your girlfriend... grin... I have a wonderful woman who is always by my side that works to promote family and values... but, if you need some more D size batteries... down their. I will be more than happy to send you some...

Richard again... your right its not about us.. its about the operation... I think your listening to the Salvation army net... as the red cross is not handling any of the health and welfare stuff... they are doing that by internet and their own paid to work people...

I agree the SATURN group is doing a big job... I have handled close to 100 of the messages that came out this way... to the Left Coast... as well as have been helping in getting the people airlifted out of the area... thus my postings about the GA air relief efforts going on... but, I am just a small part of the big picture... and my area of expertise while it also is aviation.. is making sure that the aircraft are kept flying and safe... thus we are also working with the mechanics... and supply of parts needed when one has a problem...

While not actually located at the impacted zone... the support is the same as if we were at war... such as when we were in VN... but, thank you for asking and I hope you now have a better understanding of why you thought I was the ogar that you made me out to be... which was not true...

Just one of the little people in the back ground which just happen to help make it all work... no one is going to pay me... no one is going to haul me in for a award... I don't do it for that... I do it to help those who really want the help... but, that also includes the ones that are giving the others a hard time trying to help... and that was what went wrong in this arena...they had to be eliminated first before the good folks could get in to help the ones needed that are their trying to protect their property in a lawless land for the time being... but, as you probably have seen ... the law has returned to the city... and now come the efforts to rebuild...

My views..and opinion of the RED CRoss... is just that... I would not donate to them or their efforts... from past experiences... including 911... I do however support the salvation army and its efforts to aid and comfort the victs'... I you want to do some checking... you will find that 90 cents of every dollar given is what they give out... where as the red cross.. has a bigger paid overhead... their its more like 20 cents on the dollar get LOANED.. out... and the monies which are donated to a area of destruction... is not necessarily all given to people in that area... as we have seen in 911 most of the money went to the around the world offices... when queried about it.. they said you gave it to us... and we do with it as we see fit... its our money now... I am sure if others really knew that this was their attitude... which I am sure most do now... give to the SA instead... because that is what they intended it to go to... not some place in Africa or Europe... kinda thing...

Take care my friend... and keep up the good work... take care of the little dog...
RE: Time to delete some of these messages  
by K5FZ on September 8, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I know I said I was through here, but hey, I lied.

Reasonable people can usually agree to disagree.

I am not a R/C fan. I know all the numbers. However, during this disaster, any help is better than no help.
Once this is over, maybe their deficiencies will be exposed agan.

In reference to the 911 calls, if you will do a google search on 911, amatuer radio, Katrina, you will find a meger few references to what I was talking about. For whatever reason, these calls were going everywhere from Jackson, MS to Houston, TX. Amateur radio was geting them back to whatever law enforcement offices they could, and in some cases the Coast Guard.

This IS bigger than 9-11 and Camille (1969). And not just because I am closer to the problem. In terms of loss of life and property, this one is gonna far out-shadow both of those.

I am located more that 200 miles north of the coast and I was without commercial power for over a week.
I cannot fathom what the people that are stuck there are going through, nor the ones that are scattered around the country, not able to go back. There are lots of hard working people who evacuated when told, and have been staying in motels or wherever they could find shelter, that are now running out of money and will have to relocate AGAIN, possibly to shelters. Many of these people have no hope of returning to a job for months.

I am not running around with an orange vest and an HT getting in people's way, and I don't think most of the guys down there helping are either. Most of us either have friends or family or both, who have lost most of what they worked a lifetime to get...and we are concerned and want to help, how ever we can...In my case, maybe it is just staying out of the way and being available to do relays if needed...But I AM NOT GOING TO BE PART OF THE PROBLEM, if I cannot be part of the solution.

Thanks for the offer, but I have a fresh supply of "C" cells...for my flashlight...and my dogs are doing fine even if the storm did scare the crap out of them. I'm looking forward to 'coon huntin' season....Maybe you would like to come down for the next Snipe hunt...lots of fun there...

C Ya
RE: Time to delete some of these messages  
by NN6EE on September 8, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Whether it's a Hurricane or any other awesome natural disaster what's really SCARY is how FRAGILE the supposed "Civilized Society" fabric really is!!!

It did'nt take too very long in New Orleans to DISENIGRATE as it did!!!

In today's Amerika the right to "BEAR ARMS" is very prudent indeed!!!

RE: Time to delete some of these messages  
by K4JF on September 8, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
<I am not running around with an orange vest and an HT getting in people's way, and I don't think most of the guys down there helping are either. >

Of course you're not. That is an urban myth started by a bunch on some website called sexyham or something!
RE: Time to delete some of these messages  
by K5FZ on September 8, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I am going to share this email that was in my box when I got home from work today.

It says feel free to share it, so I hope posting it here is not overstepping any bounds. It was written by a ham friend that I visit with frequently on 75 meters. I am not posting his call, because I do not have his permission to do so.

These are the people that make up most of South Louisiana, not the ones that ones that make the 6 O'clock news.

Dear America
I suppose we should introduce ourselves: We're South Louisiana.
We have arrived on your doorstep on short notice and we apologize for that, but we never were much for waiting around for invitations. We're not much on formalities like that.
And we might be staying around your town for a while, enrolling in your schools and looking for jobs, so we wanted to tell you a few things about us. We know you didn't ask for this and neither did we, so we're just going to have to make the best of it.
First of all, we thank you. For your money, your water, your food, your prayers, your boats and buses and the men and women of your National Guards, fire departments, hospitals and everyone else who has come to our rescue.
We're a fiercely proud and independent people, and we don't cotton much to outside interference, but we're not ashamed to accept help when we need it.
And right now, we need it.
Just don't get carried away. For instance, once we get around to fishing again, don't try to tell us what kind of lures work best in your waters.
We're not going to listen. We're stubborn that way.
You probably already know that we talk funny and listen to strange music and eat things you'd probably hire an exterminator to get out of your yard.
We dance even if there's no radio. We drink at funerals. We talk too much and laugh too loud and live too large and, frankly, we're suspicious of those who don't.
We put Tabasco on stuff without tasting it first.
But we'll try not to judge you while we're in your town.
Everybody loves their home, we know that. But we love South Louisiana with a ferocity that borders on the pathological. Sometimes we bury our dead in LSU sweatshirts.
Often we don't make sense. You may wonder why, for instance - if we could only carry one small bag of belongings with us on our journey to your state
- why in God's name did we bring a pair of shrimp boots?
We can't really explain that. It is what it is.
You've probably heard that many of us stayed behind. As bad as it is, many of us cannot fathom a life outside of our border, out in that place we call Elsewhere.
The only way you could understand that is if you have been there, and so many of you have. So you realize that when you strip away all the craziness and bars and parades and music and architecture and all that hooey, really, the best thing about where we come from is us.
We are what made this place a national treasure. We're good people. And don't be afraid to ask us how to pronounce our names. It happens all the time.
When you meet us now and you look into our eyes, you will see the saddest story ever told. Our hearts are broken into a thousand pieces.
But don't pity us. We're gonna make it. We're resilient. After all, we've been rooting for the Saints for 35 years. That's gotta count for something.
OK, maybe something else you should know is that we make jokes at inappropriate times.
But what the hell.
And one more thing: In our part of the country, we're used to having visitors. It's our way of life.
So when all this is over and we move back home, we will repay to you the hospitality and generosity of spirit you offer to us in this season of our despair.
That is our promise. That is our faith.

I hope you all will share this sentiment with all of your friends and maybe one day soon you may again hear " Les se Lais Bon Temps Roullette". Margie and I are still waiting to hear from many of our families. Please keep all of us in your prayers.

Thanks to All,
Mel "n Margie
RE: Time to reflect and get closuer  
by WA6CDE on September 8, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Yes it is one of the things that this country is good at... and the frontier sprit still lives... when the law is being with held the people band together... and protect property... while some of the outlaws are on the other side...

We in this country still respect life... and as such... will allow others to express themselves... but, when it comes to serious damage two things take place here in the US...

First is the concerns and welfare of our fellow man... thus the hams who volunteer to provide commutations...

Second... we see the offer of other goods, services and supplies that others from the un-effected areas donate out of their own pockets.

Its not the government which should provide for or insure welfare for the people... but, the people themselves and for that.. I think we have seen happen. If one depends on the government to take care of them... waiting for them to provide... I think we also have seen the carnage of those who thought that the government was going to take care of them... No where does it say they will... even though generally the masses think it will...

You got your ham ticket by working for it.. the government didn't give it to you... thus the same applies to your property... and the time you do start thinking that it should be the government should provided for you... (such as what the UN wants in the world) I want you to take a long hard look as some of the people who also thought that way... that in this case are no longer walking and talking... It is up to each of us to help... each other as we can... yes... and it is also up to each of us to keep in reserve a source which we can depend on to carry us through....

Ham radio is such a tool... to help others as well as ourselves... it can bring others to our aid... as well as it can be used to save lives... when others call... it is up to us to decide how and when we will use our tools... The right to bear arms is also a tool... it can save life as well as take it... but, in the defense of ones life,property,country... both hams and arms can be used to secure the nation from damage be it natural or a aggressors.

Hopeful we will never run out of the good people who offer to join in the protection as well as common defense and welfare of this country... clearly if you depend on someone else to it... again take a long look at the people who thought that way before and after the storm...

As was covered here in past threads... the prep of ones self and their equipment is something that one should not take lightly... Field day is a limited practice... equipment boxes are tools of necessity that everyone should have considered... as no one in this country is exempt from some form of disaster...

Learn well from past mistakes... and formulate a plan so that next time not as many of them are made...

As the old boy scout motto still holds true today... where it says ...
BE PREPARED... we add to it... for anything that might be thrown your way... be it fire, flood, cold or earthquake... you should have a plan... and have practiced it ... such as we do on field day... for ham radio comm... and be ready to not only survive but, also go into the helping mode to secure what we have... so that no one ever thinks we are going to just give up...

Again... if you count on the government for your welfare... your in for a rude awaking when it comes time during a disaster... they are not their to protect you... that job is up to every one as a whole...

They will only come in after the fact and support you with what money can buy... National Guards are product of this money spent for the defense of the country and goverment... but, it is the person.... and his training, abilities and skills that are used to aid and save lives... the goverment only provided the money to secure such... money doesn't do any good when you need human comfort and compassion...

Just like they say... divide and conquer... in disasters its just the opposite... its... work as a team and be successful...

Most don't do it for the glory... they do it because its the right thing to do... and the use of ones physical time is much more than all the money one can provide... lest we say... don't rely on someone else to do it for you... get active and participate... and like the old army saying... be the best you can be...

Your as important as the guy who is flying the helo doing the rescue or the guy who is running the wench go lift them up... after all without comm they wouldnt have been their in the first place... hmmmmmm from the cooks that feed them... to the guys who maintain them... and all in between... a job well done... as we contenue on... into the next adventure... Oh and I guess we should say thanks for the goverment providing the money to support the efforts...
RE: second time around... here comes another blow.  
by WA6CDE on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Well.... guess you better not put the radios away just yet... seems another blow is headed up the east coast... hopefully they can apply what is known aready and this time it will be better... SAT groups are starting to man up and ask for volenteers... i.e hams... for immediate insertion once the storm and flooding has stopped...

Tonight the red cross is asking for over 40000 volenteers... from servers on food lines, cooks and other food related services... to people skilled in computers and databasing... as well as the rest of the services they offer... no mention of hams and comm though... but, I am sure they could use the comm trained hams in the commercial radio operations they are doing... with others...

FEMA is also looking for help... again comm people with computer skills are needed as the field agents report back they need the info databased...

Soo... lots going on.. still...
Hurricane Katrina Communicaions -- UPDATED 10:50am  
by KK5CA on September 12, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Over 3,700 Citizen Corps volunteers from across Texas have volunteered their time and efforts to aid evacuees in hurricane relief in their own
communities. For the first time in the history of the program, all Citizen Corps volunteers in Texas have been called into service. The response has been overwhelming. Volunteers have provided support at local 211 and EOC call centers, assisted with setting up local shelters and worked at shelters checking-in evacuees, distributed food and water to evacuees, and helped in many other essential evacuation duties. The support these volunteers have provided to local communities has alleviated severely constrained communities in disaster relief. Their time and efforts are invaluable and undoubtedly greatly appreciated by all Texans and evacuees.

As of Friday September 9, high capacity shelters remain open in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Austin and Corpus Christi. Forty-five (45) Texas counties are currently involved with 196 open shelters. There are approximately 205,000 displaced individuals in Texas.
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