Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Support Katrina Response:
from
The ARRL Letter, Vol 24, No 34
on
September 2, 2005
Website:
http://www.arrl.org/
View comments about this article!
Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Support Katrina Response:
The Corporation for National and Community Service (CNCS)
http://www.nationalservice.org/ will provide a $100,000 grant supplement
to ARRL to support Amateur Radio's emergency communication operators in
states affected by Hurricane Katrina. The grant will help to fund "Ham Aid,"
a new League program to support Amateur Radio volunteers deployed in the
field in disaster-stricken areas. ARRL Chief Development Officer Mary
Hobart, K1MMH, expressed gratitude to CNCS for its generous response. Ham
Aid, she said, offers a unique opportunity to support individual radio
amateurs helping to bridge the communication gap Hurricane Katrina has
caused.
"For the first time in ARRL history, we will be able to reimburse some of
the expenses that hams incur in response to a disaster," she said. "We only
wish that we could justify an expense reimbursement program like this every
time Amateur Radio Emergency Service volunteers are called upon to help in a
disaster or emergency, sometimes placing themselves in harm's way."
Hobart said it's only due to the scope of the unprecedented and tragic
Katrina disaster that CNCS agreed to help support dedicated Amateur Radio
volunteers. "But," she added, "we'd like to think of this grant as a token
of appreciation and a recognition of Amateur Radio's value in past
emergencies and disasters, such as 9/11."
Hobart says ARRL's Ham Aid program already has received some substantial
private donations. Those and the CNCS grant, she said, provide a way for the
League to "support our Field Organization as never before."
The CNCS Ham Aid grant is effective for operations established and
documented as of September 1, 2005, and the aid is earmarked for Hurricane
Katrina deployments only at this point. Guidelines are being established
that will permit volunteers who have been involved in bona fide field
support operations on or after September 1 to apply for a reimbursement
voucher on a per diem basis.
Grant funds may also sustain the Ham Aid program and help to rebuild the
emergency communications capabilities in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama
to ensure that the Gulf Coast is prepared, should disaster strike again.
The CNCS grant is an extension of ARRL's three year Homeland Security
training grant, which has provided certification in emergency communication
protocols to nearly 5500 Amateur Radio volunteer over the past three years.
"CNCS grants helped make it possible for the ARRL to train America's hams
and make them the best all-volunteer emergency radio service ever seen,"
Hobart said. "Now they are making it possible for the hams to use that
training."
Source:
The ARRL Letter
Vol. 24, No. 34
September 2, 2005
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by N8NOE on September 2, 2005
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I guess this would be nice if they make it RETROACTIVE?... But I'm going to guess Somehow the Monies will get lost in the Shuffle, and the people out the cash will never see it. Counties (Perishes), EOC's, Etc. But not the Guy who had to use GAS, Or had to repair a rig to keep on the air.. My 2 Cents worth, I guess...
A Pesimist is really an Optimist with experiance!
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by K4RAF on September 3, 2005
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This leaves me with one BIG question: Does the reimbursement only apply to ARRL "members"?
If so, that cuts way down on potential responders.
IMHO: It is a big mistake to introduce any money into volunteering & only bad things will come of it...
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by W6TH on September 3, 2005
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.
During WW2 the civil defence did well to support ham radio and to pay back or compensate for money spent or losses incurred; reimbursed. Including gasoline.
I don't remember the ARRL having a hand in this situation at any time.
.:
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by KC0BUS on September 3, 2005
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Shoot, $100,000 is barely enough money to fuel up my vehicle to get down there! ;-)
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by K7UNZ on September 3, 2005
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Frankly, I'd much rather see that cash go toward the victims via an agency such as The Salvation Army, or the Red Cross. And remember, there are a lot of "pros" down there who have been working day and night (police, paramedics, utility companies, etc.) while enduring personal loss as much as the victims they aid.
Jim/k7unz
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by W6TH on September 3, 2005
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.
That is where the money is coming from; taxes on gasoline. That is socialism for you; Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy. Such as England and America.
.:
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6BFH on September 3, 2005
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K4RAF, your basic thought is probably quite correct. I’m sure the ARRL welcomes such views, and will give them a good reason to reverse this policy. Probably anyone that gets involved should expect that if they receive any compensation, it will only be pennies on the Dollar! That though is not why you volunteer, right?
Vito, those were other times, and it was not the ARRL!
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by K4RAF on September 3, 2005
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"That though is not why you volunteer, right?"
No, not at all. However, I have to wonder why they would welcome this since it flies in the face of the service's intent & Part 97. Is the FCC OK with this?
While I won't speculate publicly why this was embraced, I would hope that it would not be the sole motivation for volunteering, nor should it be restricted to just "members" IF it is allowed. Afterall, we are all federally licensed, not just "members".
I have hope they will see the error in their ways on this & quickly recind the advertisement & return the money to be used toward the Red Cross. If they don't, they will leave themselves wide open to the scrutiny of the entire amateur community worldwide & rightly so.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6BFH on September 3, 2005
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I don’t believe that the ARRL holds Part 97 (particularly 97.1) in any fundamentally high regard. They do what they do for what they think of as pragmatic reasons, and to gain membership.
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Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Support
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by K0ABE on September 3, 2005
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Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Support Katrina Response….
The key word here is GRANT. What’s the difference between the government giving the ARRL a $100,000 GRANT and Motorola giving the ARRL $100,000 contribution for the same reason? …NOTHING… Besides $100,000 is a drop in the bucket when you look at whole situation. We as radio amateurs and/or ARRL members can only pray that the money will be funneled to the people and organizations who need it most.
73
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by W6TH on September 3, 2005
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.
This money as I see it is money that is donated to a org and then this org donates it to another org the ARRL. Why not go straight through and why not look at a different org at that. With the ARRL I have yet to see any itemized distribution of any amount even when asked for. The money seems to be dissipated in ways other than for what the donation was intended for. In other words to or almost to the point of disappearing.
I say the support should amount to food, shelter and clothing along with health care.
Ham radio should be self supporting and not depending on the aid of donated money or the ARRL. Our taxes should about cover most and what better way to distribute for these needed people?
W6TH
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by ARRLFAN on September 3, 2005
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Mark my words --
when this is all said and done --
99,000 will go to some bullshit ARRL fund that will fund new office furniture
1,000 will go to the regional ARRL director to drive his truck around the site and survey the damage...
-----
It will be extremely interesting to see where the money actually goes since they didn't tell anyone how to apply for the funds or what justifys as reimbursement --
also i bet you this wil only go toward ARRL peronnel...
does it pay for gas, or food, or .40 a mile driving reimbursment, or lodging..
this 100,000 will never get into any actual ham hands...
.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by KC8VWM on September 3, 2005
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I suppose it's better than nothing.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by KG6AMW on September 3, 2005
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If you can't participate directly, do so indirectly by sending cash and/or donating a pint of blood. List of possible donor sites, American Red Cross, Salvation Army, Catholic Charities, Episcopal Relief, Mennonite Disaster Services, Mercy Corps, Methodist Relief, Samaritans Purse, Southern Baptist Disaster Relief and United Jewish Charities.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by K4RAF on September 3, 2005
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"Why not go straight through and why not look at a different org at that."
Vito,
I find this whole concept of reimbursement, the ARRL & grants for volunteering more intriguing by the minute. I just got off HF where we all batted this around. I am now convinced that IF we, as an entire group, don't ask questions & get answers, this will spell the end for amateur radio as we know it. Otherwise, this extends the ARRL metality of "professional amateurs" paid for participating in a supposed VOLUNTEER-only hobby.
Rather than the ARRL taking a "grant" directly, would it not be a more honest, efficient approach to submit your volunteer expense report (ONLY as a deployed operator) directly to FEMA.org? Even if the reimbursement were pennies on a dollar, I actually trust FEMA more than the ARRL regarding accounting for disbursements.
From an FCC standpoint, it is directly assisting another Federal agency, during a time of national emergency.
I will anxiously await public clarification by the ARRL about just who gets what. I just hope my gut is wrong on this whole "pay to play" scenario.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by W6TH on September 3, 2005
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.
With 650,000 Amateur Radio Operators and one dollar each to contribute will be the amount of $650,000. How about $5.00 each for the amount of $3,250,000.
Who needs the ARRL.
.:
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by N4RJ on September 3, 2005
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W6TH
Someone is trying to do something proactive. You are just stirring the pot and doing nothing.
Join some organized effort instead of mouthing negatives and complaining.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by W6TH on September 3, 2005
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N4RJ
Suggest something Hugh. Your thoughts and suggestions are most welcomed.
.:
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA4MJF on September 3, 2005
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The usual anti-ARRL rif-raff.
If the ARRL decided to close up shop,
they would find some reason to complain
about that.
It gets old after a while.
73 de Ronnie
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by W6TH on September 3, 2005
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.
RAF
Have you ever noticed that when a an occurrence causing widespread destruction and distress; a catastrophe disaster occurs the ARRL is always looking for a handout.
73 W6TH
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by AG4RQ on September 3, 2005
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Hams don't need a monetary incentive to help out in a disaster. If the government is stupid enough to throw out $100,000, the ARRL should redirect the money where it is needed. The ARRL should donate half this money to the Red Cross and the other half to the Salvation Army for the victims of Hurricane Katrina. This $100,000 could feed a lot of starving people in the affected areas.
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Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Support
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by KD7DCR on September 3, 2005
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I find this subject/intent/action more interesting by the moment... An Org has decided to try and help a wider need by commiting funds to another "specific application" org, for use in a "field or on site" capacity. Sounds kind of like GM or FORD sending a check to the Red Cross or United Way. As of this moment, ALL Gov, NGO's, 1st Responders, Local groups, etc. are out there DOING their best to assist those in need. So are we! Read the ARES E-letter of this morning, 9/3/05, for specifics. We are gearing up for a long-haul effort here, as it is going to require one. AND - gas or other transportation costs are HIGH as &/*?!. We are going to see HAMS from both coasts working on this one...some in person, some from home as relay stations, etc. (someone kick the soap box out from under me please).
I am also a pilot, in general aviation - small planes. We are involved right now within Homeland Security through AOPA to apply our skills and aircraft to this effort. Under FAA rules there is also a ban on getting money for our efforts unless we are "commercial" in lic and nature of operations. The "loop hole" if you will is that the pilot/owner must "pay" their fair and equal share for any arrangement of expense sharing or payment. I would expect to see this rule "waived" under these specific conditions, for such actions pertaining to them.
Also, there is a system in the fire fighting world that involves "contract crews" for firelines...nationwide all summer - they operate as a business to make money. This also includes the planes and some Helo's that drop slurry on the big fires...very few are "owned" by a gov agency. Do we want to see "communications teams" started up under this system? I think not! Besides, there is already a similar capability imbedded in our Incident Command Team system under the Fire Command system - they have pallets of radios and repeaters ready to go in Bosie stockpiles.
My $0.02 worth:
There is coordination of our efforts underway as I write by the So Tex group and others within ARES...that DON'T just involve ARRL MEMBERS. The lowest levels are where these funds will be needed the most and best applied. So, give some of the larger pile directly to the SM's within the contiguous states sending people in first for allocation into their fuel tanks and ice chests - hold some back for the next 2 or 3 waves coming from further away states...say 1/3 now, and 1/6th shares for the next 4 waves to follow. This gets our people on the ground now some immediate relief - fast; and, allows for those to get relief after 5 to 10 days in the hot zone over the next 4 weeks or so. ACCOUNT for the MONEY and report it back up the ladder. No, this is not perfect - nor, is is full payment of expenses for anyone...but, every little bit helps. The individual ham's could "decide" to decline their offered amount, leaving it in the kitty for others to follow - if they so choose...kind of like a reverse donation, eh?
That's all...any rock throwers?
Mel Frost
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Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Support
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by KD7DCR on September 3, 2005
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Forgot:
Also guys, we should be thinking about "teams" going in, not just individuals, when possible.
We "know" voices and fists...and, we operate well from practice with those known entities.
Also, think "carpool" in place of one person, one car...economy of travel costs and all that.
Being able to take over as a team, from another departing team (shift to shift, or week to week) will maximize our effectivness. A team is 2 people to start with, and grows to any size needed therefrom! The old "A" team, "B" team concept was well tested and proven during the '60's by SOG and SF groups...and our seals of today.
Think too of the first rule of response...make sure that you don't become part of the problem when doing anything. We still have 1 to 2 months of storm season and the same time for major fires out here in the West. Leave enough resources in place at home to cover your own needs - or, activate MOU's before you leave for the Gulf area to cover things while you are gone...says the 'Ol Ranger... Think stratigic...act tactical...
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6BFH on September 3, 2005
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K4RAF, I think that we may be coming to an even closer point of overall agreement.
Your words “this will spell the end of Amateur radio as we know it” are very interesting. I don’t think that something like this will be the penultimate issue or reason why and how the demise of Ham radio comes about, but it will be a contributing factor!
The ultimate problem, in so far as it rests at the door of the ARRL, is that this organization has not really supported the basis of Ham radio for even as long as I have been a Ham (40 years) and probably for a good deal longer. These folks care more about what they see as “quick fixes” that will boost the overall populace of Ham radio, and they will of course gain a percentage of these new ranks.
I have seen this for many years, and most prominently since the idea of easier licensing was commenced some 15 years ago. Of course “Incentive Licensing” was much the same move about 40 years earlier.
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Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Support
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by K5REW on September 3, 2005
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Thank you ARRL! This type of contribution will help to off-set one of the most stifling and difficult parts of voluntary service, especially in this messed-up fuel pricing era. I was considering arrangements for volunteering into the affected areas and immediately the price of driving my vehicle the 1200 mile round trip at $3/gal began to shutter my spirits as well as my abilities to respond. I would likely have to take a week of unpaid leave from work, perhaps longer. The gas and oil expense help for my 4 cyl vehicle for the 1200 mile round trip would help tremendously. Other things like helping out with the tetanus, hepatitus A & B and other vacinations as well. I will bring my own food, MRE, staples, clothing and remain completely self sufficient, if "they" need me there. I salute the A.R.R.L, thank them very much for this type of effort and Grant coordination. It allows more response and recovery, and even a better effort in individual efforts in responding to this massive impact upon almost all citizens of the U.S. Great idea. Great program in consideration of responding to such a disaster as the Gulf Coast has just entered into.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by K3WVU on September 3, 2005
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Sure $100,000 isn't a lot in the big scheme of things, but I don't think too many hams volunteer their time and treasure with the expectation of getting anything in return. That's why they call it VOLUNTEER service. As to whether it goes to ARRL members or not, just remember, ARRL got the grant and is really the only organization representing amateur radio.
73
Dwight
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by W6TH on September 3, 2005
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.
WA6BFH
The ultimate problem, in so far as it rests at the door of the ARRL, is that this organization has not really supported the basis of Ham radio for even as long as I have been a Ham (40 years) and probably for a good deal longer. These folks care more about what they see as �quick fixes� that will boost the overall populace of Ham radio, and they will of course gain a percentage of these new ranks.
--------------------------------------------------------
John, going back some 70 years ago for the ARRL and what they have done in the past; was to use their power to help the FCC to get their point over. The point was that when the FCC wanted such and such thing going for them, the ARRL would use the membership to see and help the FCC to get it. Nothing more to add.
Now the ARRL is not so well in the friendly terms as it was back in the thirties and the FCC has become more or so not as dependant on the ARRL.
When will it be known to most that the ARRL is nothing more than a magazine publishing company and does not have the power as it once had. Like any business company the ARRL needs the support of members to continue on to represent the ham radio, which is little done as we can see today.
So came the lowering of cw, testing and so forth to gain much membership, but however, it doesn't seem to be doing the job that was expected. The job now of the ARRL is to go as low as possible and to get as many into ham radio with the hopes of more membership. To accomplish this, now comes the no-code and less of a test to admit many into the ham radio.
The next step is to make the FCC come alive and with the FCC along with the big three that manufacture ham radios and such be the deciding factor.
I am inclined to believe that the FCC will keep the cw requirement, lets see how wrong I am.
.:
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Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Support
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by KD8BHQ on September 3, 2005
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I'm new to this HAM RADIO but the definition of volunteer is to provide services for FREE Maybe I should find another hobby???
Charlie
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6BFH on September 3, 2005
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Charlie, an implicit problem is that originally Ham radio had nothing to do with emergency communication. This was a bit of ARRL altruism, about two decades after the inception of Ham radio, and further outlined in the New Deal thinking of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA4MJF on September 3, 2005
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Yes, Charlie, you provide your service free.
The money, if any, would be to offseet expenses.
Kinda like the USAF Auxilary or the USCG
Auxilary. The service is free, but monies
are provided to offset the expenses of the
serivce.
We hams do the same thing now, but usually
in kind help, such as the MREs, POL and
stuff you get from the State while you're
deployed operating in a disaster.
This maybe instead of going to the Guard to
get the gas for your gen set, you go buy it.
Same-same result, just a different way to do it.
Or it could be set up so that the ARRL reimburses
the state for the gas. This would make more
sense, as often the Guard tanker is the ONLY
source of gas. The PFC or Speedy 4 operating
the tanker isn't really in a position to accept
money anyhow.
73 de Ronnie
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Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Support
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by CASPER669 on September 3, 2005
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Gentlefolk;
My heart truly goes out to the victims in the Louisiana/Mississippi areas. It is with a humble heart that I wish I could do more than I am now, to help those in need. Because I'm on call (basically 24 hours a day) at my job, I'm unable to 'join forces' and provide what I can.
With that said, however, this is another example of how this disaster has turned into a political or propaganda warfare. Now, even the great ARRL has turned over it's political 'rock' and is drumming up more business. The ARRL members numbers have always been questionable = at best. More than likely, this money, along with all the money collected from high gas prices - will be 'lost' in the shuffle. It's my prediction that a notice will be sent out about how the money 'may have been mismanaged' or was spent before most of the actual volunteers received it.
Another item I noticed is that it is only for those who are current members of ARES (Amateur Radio Emergency Services - Copyright, by the way) and not those of us who are trained in Emergency Services and have a big heart during times like these. So, unless you're a current member - in good standing, you're out of luck!
Welcome to the world of politics, my friends... It affects not just the pump at my gas station, but also the one in my heart.
Chris
KC2KFW
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by AA4PB on September 3, 2005
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Good grief! What a bunch of negative people!
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6BFH on September 3, 2005
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Negative, or is that just simply realistic?
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by AA4PB on September 3, 2005
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Sounds like the typical e-ham ARRL bashing to me.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by K8MHZ on September 3, 2005
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An individual that takes money for using amateur radio is breaking the law. An organization that takes money to aid and promote those individuals is not. This would allow the ARRL to contract transportation, housing and board to get the amateurs in a position, and keep them there, in order to do their volunteer work.
I am not a member of the ARRL, but I think that we need to look at the greater issue here and put our time to better use than picking holes in emergency funding.
73,
Mark K8MHZ
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by N6AJR on September 3, 2005
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what does any of this have to do with the origonal topic..
come on folks.. quit complaining and do something positive.
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Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Support
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by N0AH on September 3, 2005
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Leaving for an ARRL assignment Tuesday in gulf states area. Who's next? The reimbursement would ne nice but we all know how that could go- Either way, my decision is made.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by W4XKE on September 3, 2005
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I applaud you and support your decision to go and be an assistant to the Katrina effort. I won't be coming with you because it takes $ to stay away from home for eats and such that my wife and I just do not have.
President Bush made a statement on TV last night that really aggravated me about "Calling on Americans to make voluntary monetary contributions to help the victims of the Katrina hurricane."
How can I make a monetary contribution without a job? The government sponsors programs to move our manufacturing industries out of the United States and then wants us to donate money? No matter how just the cause, how are we to do that?
As American workers were being laid off and the factories were being bulldozed, they pointed out that "Hoji" in India wouldn't be paying taxes into the city, state and federal coffers. Also, "Hoji" is unlikely to be supporting the charities that we have been making generous contributions to via the United Way. If I had a job, I would be glad to continue to donate a portion of my wages to the United Way to help those victims in need.
My brother recently pointed out to me, "Bro, you're trying to find a job in the $25K to $50K range and those jobs just don't exist anymore. You either qualify for $90K or you're worth $5 an hour. There is nothing in the middle anymore because those jobs have all been out-sourced."
FEMA orchestrated the project to dump thousands of storm victims at the New Orleans football stadium and the convention center without supervision, food, water or medical assistance. This short-sighted government bungle is very similar to the previous one made by eliminating U.S. jobs and then asking the unemployed people to donate money to provide for the needs of refugees.
Maybe if General Motors, Bellsouth and the others would appeal to their present employees in India, Pakistan and Singapore, they might persuade them to send a portion of their pay back to the United States to help provide for the storm victims. (Get real!) This is the result of making policy based on profit rather than common sense.
Johnny, W4XKE
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by N7LMY on September 3, 2005
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In most situations, the easiest thing to do is critisize.
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by ARRLFAN on September 3, 2005
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i just hope no one is foolish enought to think that that n individual is going to be reimbursed...
i can see all these people putting in for gas and lodging and equipment charges--- no one ever said ARRL would pay them a single cent...
but it will be interesting to hear the whining afterwrads when some guy drives from California to LA to help as on of the guys in my chapter is going to do becuase he thinks ARRL is going to refund him....
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by KD5DFM on September 3, 2005
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absolutely , you said it right , dumya took 5 days to figure what to do like he did with 911 and ill remind everyone 911 happened on dumya's watch , there once was a president who had a sing on his desk that said the buck stops here . this president say it stops with the young bucks under him ;-) john kd5dfm
by W4XKE
I applaud you and support your decision to go and be an assistant to the Katrina effort. .
President Bush made a statement on TV last night that really aggravated me about "Calling on Americans to make voluntary monetary contributions to help the victims of the Katrina hurricane."
How
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by KG6AMW on September 4, 2005
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Again, "by sending cash and/or donating a pint of blood. List of possible donor sites, American Red Cross, Salvation Army, Catholic Charities, Episcopal Relief, Mennonite Disaster Services, Mercy Corps, Methodist Relief, Samaritans Purse, Southern Baptist Disaster Relief and United Jewish Charities."
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by K8MHZ on September 4, 2005
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How about we stop the war for a while?
At 9.13 million dollars an hour we should have re-couped enough to pay for everything in just a few days.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by K8MHZ on September 4, 2005
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That's $100,000 every 6 1/2 minutes.
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Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Support
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by N9CYS on September 4, 2005
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Maybe we should listen to the h/w nets, press the mic button ONLY when we can help, and add a spelling/grammer element in lieu of the morse test.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6BFH on September 4, 2005
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Yea sure, lets stop the war for 6 or 12 months. We will pick up again where we left off, after we get a decent foothold on the New Orleans problem. What amazing stupidity! In fact it is tantamount to the thought processes of the New Orleans city planners.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by NN6EE on September 4, 2005
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It has been said in many quarters that America is the "richest nation on Earth" right???
Well with this DISASTER now in our laps and trying to fight 4 wars (Afganistan/Iraq/Drug/ and illegal migration) that ain't so!!! Ever hear of DEFICIT SPENDING???
It's about time the federal government started to get their spending priorities straight and take CARE of the "HOMELAND" first and foremost, then and only then to meddle in other countrie's affairs!!!
Jim/ee
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by W6TH on September 4, 2005
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.
NN6EE
You have that right Jim/ee.
What we need is to get rid of this government and to follow our Constitution for a more perfect union.
.:
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by NN6EE on September 4, 2005
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Hiya Vito OB!!!
Well I'll put it this way: The Constitution was never meant to be interpreted or re-interpreted in the name of "POLITICAL EXPEDIENCY"!!!
It's really AMAZING what the "Boys & Girls" in Washington (both parties by the way) will do to get re-elected!!!
Their jobs and perks seem to be more important than the security and welfare of their OWN nation!
It's incredible!!!
:-(((
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6CDE on September 4, 2005
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Ya... well I hope that some of the training and grant had better also be used to cover firearms training and defense... seems a different kind of story is coming out now... after the facts... and some of the reasons they didn't want volenteers in the area was due to the shootings that were going on...
And guess who the people are they want to knock off would be... yep the comm people... I am sure most hams never would think of themselves as moving target of oppertunity... which could become a silent key suddenly...
I'm watching MSNBC and they say FBI snipers are now inside New Orleans
"taking out targets of opportunity" and I think they mentioned some of
those targets are gang leaders. MSNBC is also reporting the FBI has for
several days had "covert teams" inside the city securing locations and
items relating to national security.
In a article by a Mr. Trainski/UPI....
...It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure out
how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them, because
it has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there.
The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we
are confronting a natural disaster.
If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is
obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation
to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop
the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists,
natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary
people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of
doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up
and rebuild.
Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to
do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they
are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself
included--did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind,
and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.
To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a
description from a Washington Times story:
"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists,
knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and
police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.
"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured
in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire....
"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened
Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with
shoot-to-kill orders.
" 'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets,'
she said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops
know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if
necessary and I expect they will.' "
The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article
shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an
armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of
squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It
looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.
What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an
orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to
storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the
drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to
attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?
Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further
destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help
them?
What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is
behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the
responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to
a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome
the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the
government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a
disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.
So you still want to go in their and play with your radio... while risking getting shot or worse killed...
Look accept the fact that ham radio today is a fun hobbie... (ARRLs' words)... and leave the rescue and help to the professionals... were not trained.. were not responders... were fun loving hams' who only like to enjoy or radios and talk... were not RAMBOS or DUKES... accept the fact that we are just fun loving socialites...who's greatest assets are to whine and complain... :)
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by W6TH on September 4, 2005
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.
Bring back America: Use what was granted and taken away by the Den of Thieves. (Congress).
BILL of RIGHTS:
Amendment II
A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.
Washington and the District of Columbia, the highest rate of crime in These United States.
.:
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by K4RAF on September 4, 2005
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Oh, I have noticed that hand out over the recent few years. Almost preying on the vulnerable...
I have also noticed the ability of the totally blinded to gloss over issues that affect the spirit of our service. You people should be ashamed of yourselves. "If it is for good, it's OK" is total crap to those who think for themselves. Where does the money go, to who & why are valid question WE want answered!
The fact that the ARRL is actively exploiting a loophole in the law is not an excuse for people of principle. It is NOT the $100,000, IT IS THE PRINCIPLE! Paid volunteers is an oxy-moron...
They finally shot 8 "armed" thugs today! Free at last!
k4raf@yahoo.com
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by K4KWH on September 4, 2005
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you said it right , dumya took 5 days to figure what to do like he did with 911 and ill remind everyone 911 happened on dumya's watch.......................
<q>
And I'll remind YOU that the FIRST attack on the Twin Towers took place WHEN??? Under WHOSE watch was THAT?
(hmmmmm, lemmee see...............that musta been around '93 while ole Bill was getting "vacuumed" by a plump girl friend, wasn't it!)
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by W6TH on September 4, 2005
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.
Where does the money go, to who & why are valid question WE want answered!
-------------------------------------------------------
These you will never find, like the security at the airports and ask where did that law came from and the answer you will get is:
These are secret laws you are told and not to be revealed. This is not the American way fo life.
Now here this: To belong to a org such as the ARRL you are controlled, bypassed on the voting and all sums of donations are kept in secracy and not revealed.
Why? Because these are by-laws that cannot be revealed not even to its membership.
.:
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by AA4PB on September 4, 2005
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Now here this: If it weren't for the ARRL you would not be having this discussion today because there would be no Amateur Radio. If you are not supporting the ARRL then you are a "fee loader" taking advantage of the benefits provided to you over the years by the ARRL and paid for by its membership.
That's not to say that you have to agree with everything the ARRL proposes or does but you should be supporting them and providing a reasoned input to your director.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6CDE on September 4, 2005
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N6XY...
Some states have said no to taking the refugees... due to economics... jack... clearly its going to be a case of supporting them for a year or so till things get solved down south... and they are going to need your support... financially... The 75%... others who left are also going to need some sort of help...
It would be like taking half of Los Angles and putting it on welfare from the state... and then shipping them out to other cities to make home...
What happens next is the price gouging and speculation... why look at the gas prices... homes are next... rents are also a way for people to get ahead... instead of looking at this as a humantairan issue.. some look at it like it was a God Send for economic gain...
Your right they don't care...never have.. never will...
Most are saying that their hearts go out to them... but, they keep their hand on their wallets in the back pocket... its all about the money... at the bottom line...
Ham radio is a tool... but, when stacked against the odds like this... most ham radio operators don't know what to expect... they have a disneyland attitude...as you can read from others posts....
Ya if you go.. make sure you stop by and pick up a NRA member who looks armed to the teeth and will swear to protect you to the death... :)
If you really want to volenteer... I would take a refugee camp and set up their... as inside the zone... as I call it... they claim the lead is still flying... and you will need a insurance policy for the widow... :)
Its not a game... its not something that you can come and go freely on... as most think that someone else should be doing something... and if they get miffed off enough.. they want to play John Wayne... until the first time they get shot at... then they crap in their pants and run like hell...
Most of the issues you will be facing... is people demanding that you help them NOW... and think your in charge becasue you have your radio... when in fact its disapointing and frustrating for you too because you don't control the resources...
Playing GOD and watching someone die.. while your trying to get help will set you back on your beliefs... but, getting mad at the other side is a normal reaction that untrained people have... as they want to know why you didn't help them... and now they have to live with the smell, sight and sounds of the person who died... talk about nighmares... the key words here are... resouces are not unlimited... and someone decides what is the most effective way to use them...
yes ham radio is fun... as we know it... but, some of these people who are fired up... havn't got a clue as to what could/does happen... it is not without risk... even from bacteria death... by just being their...
something to think about... when you see the nice lady or man on the TV in the zone... all clean and pretty... remember they just flew in and they are going to fly out right after the broadcast.... most are actors in training... :) are you prepared to leave your nice house and go into the swamp for a week...forgoing the shower every morning... picking ticks and bugs off your bod who are also looking for food... that your providing... let alone the WN virus which will run rampit down their... eating and personal hygine is also something that the others havn't a clue about... most couldn't go without their coffee in the morning... let alone a shower for 3 or 4 days... or the AC when it gets hot and humid after a hurricane... and all the water around... and speaking of water... it only would be comming in a bottle... which would be rationed... for you too...
nice to know that the resources you would consume could have gone to someone else if you didn't go... so what value does ham radio operators play....
I still say.. want to help... join the National Guard... and be ready for the next event... cause they are the ones we really should be supporting as a agency... but, somehow they get left out in the shadow of the Red Cross and its drive to financial gains... so we have seen...
If you still decide to go... Good luck... and may the one above watch over ya...
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6BFH on September 4, 2005
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In contrast to Bobs comment, particularly in reference to non-ARRL members being “free-loaders”, that is simply absurd! Sorry Bob but many of us have “paid our dues” both to the ARRL, and more importantly in protecting our valued radio spectrum.
In that regard, dedicated individuals have done a hell of a lot more than the ARRL is even aware of! Their ‘attitude’, sometimes literally stated is, “we work hard to protect all of the spectrum even as high as 2 Meters, oh yea, and 220 and 440 too” In the view of the men I am thinking of, they would actually list all of our bands as 160, 80, 40, 30, 20, 17, 15, 12, 10, 2, and oh yea 220 and 440 MHz too! That is the way they think of it. That’s the complete list -- to them!
I know that that is not true of all ARRL officials but when you have both a Director and Vice Director in a particular sections well as a few other top officials within that section that would state that as fact -- that is really sad -- and not good representation!
Also, the ARRL has a history of supporting new modes with no consideration of the noise pollution or other problems they might cause. I had to inwardly laugh when I heard Art Goddard asking for support to fight BPL. He never was even aware of the similar problems imposed by Spread Spectrum!
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6BFH on September 4, 2005
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In contrast to Bobs comment, particularly in reference to non-ARRL members being “free-loaders”, that is simply absurd! Sorry Bob but many of us have “paid our dues” both to the ARRL, and more importantly in protecting our valued radio spectrum.
In that regard, dedicated individuals have done a hell of a lot more than the ARRL is even aware of! Their ‘attitude’, sometimes literally stated is, “we work hard to protect all of the spectrum even as high as 2 Meters, oh yea, and 220 and 440 too” In the view of the men I am thinking of, they would actually list all of our bands as 160, 80, 40, 30, 20, 17, 15, 12, 10, 2, and oh yea 220 and 440 MHz too! That is the way they think of it. That’s the complete list -- to them!
I know that that is not true of all ARRL officials but when you have both a Director and Vice Director in a particular sections well as a few other top officials within that section that would state that as fact -- that is really sad -- and not good representation!
Also, the ARRL has a history of supporting new modes with no consideration of the noise pollution or other problems they might cause. I had to inwardly laugh when I heard Art Goddard asking for support to fight BPL. He never was even aware of the similar problems imposed by Spread Spectrum!
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6BFH on September 4, 2005
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In contrast to Bobs comment, particularly in reference to non-ARRL members being “free-loaders”, that is simply absurd! Sorry Bob but many of us have “paid our dues” both to the ARRL, and more importantly in protecting our valued radio spectrum.
In that regard, dedicated individuals have done a hell of a lot more than the ARRL is even aware of! Their ‘attitude’, sometimes literally stated is, “we work hard to protect all of the spectrum even as high as 2 Meters, oh yea, and 220 and 440 too” In the view of the men I am thinking of, they would actually list all of our bands as 160, 80, 40, 30, 20, 17, 15, 12, 10, 2, and oh yea 220 and 440 MHz too! That is the way they think of it. That’s the complete list -- to them!
I know that that is not true of all ARRL officials but when you have both a Director and Vice Director in a particular sections well as a few other top officials within that section that would state that as fact -- that is really sad -- and not good representation!
Also, the ARRL has a history of supporting new modes with no consideration of the noise pollution or other problems they might cause. I had to inwardly laugh when I heard Art Goddard asking for support to fight BPL. He never was even aware of the similar problems imposed by Spread Spectrum!
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6BFH on September 4, 2005
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Looks like postings are getting shuffled in their sequence again!
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by W6TH on September 4, 2005
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.
The Constitution of the United States
PREAMBLE
We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
What happenend to the tax payers money?
Is it over in Iraq or Afgan? Or in the pockets of our politicians?
I love this part; promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty.
Where can I find it?
.:
Live free of die.
.:
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6CDE on September 4, 2005
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AA4PB
(Now here this: If it weren't for the ARRL you would not be having this discussion today because there would be no Amateur Radio. If you are not supporting the ARRL then you are a "fee loader" taking advantage of the benefits provided to you over the years by the ARRL and paid for by its membership.
That's not to say that you have to agree with everything the ARRL proposes or does but you should be supporting them and providing a reasoned input to your director.)
Ya right... somewhere they got to you dude... and could I get a drag off that thing you�re smoking before you throw it out...
The ARRL doesn't listen to you or I... it has its own agenda and will do what it wants to make sure its meeting its goals both monetarily and publicly... When it comes to the ARRL, its all about the money... dudet' and don't ever forget it... (Show me 5 things the ARRL does without getting or asking for compensation... why even their web site is not open and free... in reality a pay for view... ) I know along with other hams who supplied articles for free... which they published and charged you poor dumb bastard for... we never got a cent but, they did... and you probably think they wrote it too.... huh... so go ahead and tell me... please what have they done for ALL hams... freely like others have given to them..
Name a few Please... ahhhh you can't can you...
and now you know why the FCC doesn't listen to just them either.. (Why they have the federal register and solicit comments from all hams on the federal web site... so you can put your two cents worth in...)
So tell me how many times has the ARRL reversed its decisions after the comment periods close...Hmmm :) I lost count...
why do you think their are hams hanging out in places like this one (eham) when the ARRL has its own... for its paid members... why are you here if your so ate up with the ARRL ???? (NOTE: the ARRL is a social club organization... the FCC is the controlling AGENCY for hams....)
So please don't give us this BS about how the ARRL is the controlling group... they only control you and the rest of their socialistic members from what I see... on ham radio issues... why even ART BELL and others are also groups.. You going to say that we all should honor them for being there... hmmmm... and I'll be you believe that AL Gore inveted the Internet too... because he said it.... ya right... :)
See you are a product of the new mindless socialistic society... where someone has to be in control of your life... and represent you... else you think all is lost... hmmmmm.... get a grip on reality... dude...
Its only a hobby... subject to change... ;)
From the days of the incentive licensing (discrimination of class hams) to todays give away... of the ham bands to welfare people... you can bet they will have their hand in the process to make money... your rights be dammed...
No thank GOD for the FCC and your congressman who are allowing you to talk on the radio... not the ARRL...
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by W6TH on September 4, 2005
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Mail this to a friend!
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.
The Constitution of the United States
PREAMBLE
We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
What happenend to the tax payers money?
Is it over in Iraq or Afgan? Or in the pockets of our politicians?
I love this part; promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty.
Where can I find it?
I am a veteran of foreign wars and all I ask from "These United States of America" is freedom, my freedom, liberty and nothing more.
.:
Live free of die.
.:
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by K4RAF on September 5, 2005
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It's all a mindless blame game, although some facts remain hard to find:
It's W's fault that the Louisiana State & city governments stood around with their thumbs up their... figuring out who to blame, not who to help. It is not like they EVER had a hurricane in LA before.
It's W's fault that the New Orleans police chief encouraged looters to act by saying "If you loot, we HAVE A JAIL CELL FOR YOU", not "You WILL BE SHOT". Now the Feds have to take out suckbags AKA "targets of opportunity" that this idiot enabled by his words.
It's the Feds fault that states outside the affected states had to send their troops to secure these areas because the Louisiana National Guard were doing what? Oh wait, they're all in Iraq, right?
It's the Feds fault that the Louisiana State government didn't ask for Federal assistance until 72 hours post incident. If the Feds had just busted over the borders without official requests, all the whiners would have cried "violation of State's rights"...
It's the "freeloaders" fault that the ARRL is only concerned with revenue development & not ethics. They are so top heavy now, if 25% withdraw their $upport, they'd fall on their pathetic faces. The "freeloader" majority are keeping their support to themselves because they are just selfish & won't drink the Newington Kool-Aide. We ALL have FCC licenses yet in the league's eyes, we are not all peers, UNTIL we pay up?
The website is not for free when it comes to information either, just happy face press releases. These people have no clue that Googling a subject finds 90% of related articles for free, not the 10% of crap that costs $39/year to read them & be called a "member".
If these mindless idiots who support the ARRL to the death had it their way, your license would be issued by the ARRL as well as a fee for the license. Afterall, the ARRL seeks to get a cut of everything, as evidenced by their new pilfering attempt, called "Ham Aid". Something is severely suspicious about just how this "reimbursement" will work. I am 1000% against reimbursement for volunteering UNLESS it is through the FEMA structure. A front organization like the ARRL is too frought with cronies to be legitimately in charge of such a program.
I am making a call Tuesday. They better have some answers...
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6CDE on September 5, 2005
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Now...now... be careful.. or they will label you a disgruntal anti socialist ARRL non paying freeloader... I have dibbs on the left side of the rowboat... as you echoed what we said earlier... on the web...
tonight the news was reporting that the city of NO is under siege.. from the rebbels... sounds like starwars huh... the corp of engineers is holding the contractors who will be fixing the dikes... and rewireing power...back... till the city is "re-taken and secured" People are in fact dieing... but, not from the storm and disaster but, rather from being shot by the resident rebbels... as one reporter said... its turning into a race war... hundreds of Highway officers and police swatt members are being sent in from around the country to re-gain control of the city so relief workers can have access without being beaten up, raped or shot and killed. its not safe on the streets even in the daytime said one police officer who suggested that the TV crew get out of their... the local city swatt officers are locked in their own building from the inside as lawlessness abounds...
the storm is over... but, the battle to retake NO is just begining.... this next week were going to see a lot of shootouts happen said the TV crew.
Of course I am sure the red cross is not too thrilled to be putting on telethons for the american people to donate to these poor homeless resedental rebbels for aid... (Ya I can just see a picture of some dude standing their with two bandalero across his chest holding a AK47 with a sad face saying.. we need help) while in the background a full grown war is going on for control of the city... with americas finest duking it out with 'em... donate blood...ahhhh.. makes ya wanta just sign your paycheck over to the red cross to help...huh...
Only in america... the rest of the world must think were all nuts over here...
and the teleban is using it for propaganda saying that these are freedom fighters against the bush admin...
60 min had a great piece on the new generation and how they can't think for themselves... but, think they have all the right answers... and when proven wrong... get very... very upset... hmmmmm... sounds like some agency you know... :)
The hell with monday nigh football... lets see the live action packed war staring Johnie ham on the spot reporting live from the trenches as a volenteer. Just think what a thrill of hearing bullets go whizzing by... the smell of gunpowder, hand to hand combat all while our hero is trying to pass helth and welfare traffic... yes sir... this grant will aid him in his training to cope with such emergencies he volenteered for... :)
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by KG6AMW on September 5, 2005
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Put away your petty differences because time is genuinely of the essence across the entire region, and no matter how outrageous the charge and how tempting the desire to refute, the energy wasted on that is energy not put into the relief effort.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by K4RAF on September 5, 2005
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WA6CDE,
Sorry, I was posting in the middle of the night after a long stint in my listening post, monitoring USCG, FEMA & other non-ham HF activity. I have lists if anyone (SWLs) cares to have them, quite complete but all outside ham radio.
I respectfully relinquish the left side of the rowboat to you sir...
Who's driving? (burp)
k4raf@yahoo.com
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by ARRLFAN on September 5, 2005
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You guys are fricking morons...
So you want to drop some elderly white guys with orange vests with HF radios into an area where they are shooting and sniping at firemen and policeman....
hell 270 of the scared pathetic worthless New Orleans Police Department quit their posts and left thier community -- but you guys want to get in their and do WHAT???
Leave the rescue and comms to the professionals -- they have enough old men with Depend diapers on already to take care of....
No matter how many tims I hear this it still amazes me that you ham morons thinks that you actually have something to contirbute -- if you wanna-bes wanted to be policemen and firemen in the first place why didn't you ???
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by ARRLFAN on September 5, 2005
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WA6CDE hit it perfectly on the head --
"Ya... well I hope that some of the training and grant had better also be used to cover firearms training and defense... seems a different kind of story is coming out now... after the facts... and some of the reasons they didn't want volenteers in the area was due to the shootings that were going on...
And guess who the people are they want to knock off would be... yep the comm people... I am sure most hams never would think of themselves as moving target of oppertunity... which could become a silent key suddenly...
I'm watching MSNBC and they say FBI snipers are now inside New Orleans
"taking out targets of opportunity" and I think they mentioned some of
those targets are gang leaders. MSNBC is also reporting the FBI has for
several days had "covert teams" inside the city securing locations and
items relating to national security.
In a article by a Mr. Trainski/UPI....
...It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure out
how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them, because
it has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there.
The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we
are confronting a natural disaster.
If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is
obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation
to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop
the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists,
natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary
people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of
doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up
and rebuild.
Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to
do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they
are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself
included--did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind,
and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.
To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a
description from a Washington Times story:
"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists,
knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and
police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.
"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured
in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire....
"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened
Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with
shoot-to-kill orders.
" 'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets,'
she said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops
know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if
necessary and I expect they will.' "
The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article
shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an
armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of
squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It
looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.
What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an
orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to
storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the
drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to
attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?
Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further
destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help
them?
What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is
behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the
responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to
a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome
the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the
government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a
disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.
So you still want to go in their and play with your radio... while risking getting shot or worse killed...
Look accept the fact that ham radio today is a fun hobbie... (ARRLs' words)... and leave the rescue and help to the professionals... were not trained.. were not responders... were fun loving hams' who only like to enjoy or radios and talk... were not RAMBOS or DUKES... accept the fact that we are just fun loving socialites...who's greatest assets are to whine and complain... :) "
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by W6TH on September 5, 2005
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.
Is this America where we are sending in Americans to kill off Americans.
Should not be; Americans killing Americans.
.:
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by W6TH on September 5, 2005
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.
What does Liberty mean to you? Do you have the use of Liberty?
LIBERTY FOR ALL:
1. The condition of being free from restriction or control.
2. The right and power to act, believe, or express oneself in a manner of one's own choosing.
3. The condition of being physically and legally free from confinement, servitude, or forced labor. See Synonyms at freedom.
Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
A right or immunity to engage in certain actions without control or interference: the liberties protected by the Bill of Rights.
In America, we have no freedom, the government has all the control. Our government does not believe in our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, they only believe in themselves.
There needs to be a change and we Americans can do it by the peaceful way of the way we put ourselves together and vote out the no good governemtn we now have.
It is up to you voters, time to act and the time is now.
.:
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by AA4PB on September 5, 2005
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In the United States W6TH is free to express his personal opinions. His opinions however do not represent my view nor, I expect, the view of the vast majority of Americans.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by AA4PB on September 5, 2005
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In the United States W6TH is free to express his personal opinions. His opinions however do not represent my view nor, I expect, the view of the vast majority of Americans.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by KG4TUM on September 6, 2005
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Lots of interesting comments on here. Due to the lawlessness in the disaster area, I would not consider going unarmed. I think it would be foolish. I think it's only common sense. I don't think comm guys are the big target that some suggest. It seems to me that all are at risk, including the bad guys' fellow survivors. But I do think that if you have a car that works, and food and water, well then you are a target of opportunity.
Journalists are pretty much all the same. They get a hand full of facts, and all of a sudden they are experts. I don't know much about all that is going on down there, but it seems to me that if the Red Cross is asking for volunteers, they must be coming up short of "professionals", and therefore there is a need. I just don't think that they would be asking us to take these risks if it were not needed. Some seem to think that hams are not up to the task. Well, who is? I think even the "professionals" were taken by surprise by the violence. Some think that hams should hide when things get out of hand.
I think that there are some who would not do well down there, but I expect that there are a few who are willing to take the risks. I also think that the Red Cross is going to be up front with volunteers in letting them know what conditions to expect. If a ham is still willing to go, then God bless him or her. But insist on going armed, it's only common sense.
Like many, I have my issues with the ARRL. They are an organization, and like all organizations, their survival is what motivates them. But I think at this time, we could put that sort of thing aside, and recognize that we are all interested in trying to get through this disaster. If nothing else, the ARRL is able to act as an interface between the ham radio society and those who might need our services.
You can't always leave everything up to the professionals. Sometimes, the professionals aren't there in your hour of need. Sometimes, you have to take matters into your own hands. To expect professionals to be there when you need them is foolish. Try as they might, there may be obstacles for them to overcome before they can get to you. Like time and distance. Do you think that if someone broke into your house, and you called 911, that it would help?
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by KC7JDS on September 6, 2005
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Hmmm....
I find this "donation" disturbing, no matter where it goes or how it is used.
To me, this goes against our very title, "amateur". The ARRL (and by extension, the rest of the amateur radio community, even if we're not ARRL members) has started down a slippery slope in transforming us all from amateurs to paid professionals, with all its consequences.
It's one thing for an amateur to collect monies from friends and other amateurs, individuals or groups.
But to accept monies from a professional organization, even a non-profit, is definately going in the wrong direction.
ARRL should (if they were honest with themselves) return the grant immediately. The thought is well-intentioned, but the saying, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" comes to mind.
If the ARRL wants to reimburse amateurs (members & non-members) for expenses incurred while helping at a disaster, they should start their own fund, and collect donations directly from all amateurs (members & non-members).
B Woodman, kc7jds
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA4MJF on September 6, 2005
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NO, it is not a path to paid professionals.
For many, many moons, when I was a USAF
Auxilary Officer, I was paid expenses
(well, a rate set by USAF that did not
cover all expenses) for SARs, MJ crop
spotting missions, training missons, etc.
It did not make me a paid professional,
it just helped with some of the expenses
for serving the public.
I now do a lotta stuff for NC ARES*/RACES
and will do so as long as I'm able, with or
without expense reimbursement.
The end effect of ARRL expense reimbursement
(if it gets down to the individual) will be,
I'm sure, just less to write off on 1040
Schedule A, just as it was with the CAP.
73 de Ronnie
OBS/OES
* ARES is a registered Service Mark
of the American Radio Relay League, Inc
and is used with permission.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA4MJF on September 6, 2005
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KG4TUM, the great majority of Red
Cross workers are volunteers!
Without the volunteers, the ARC paid staff
could not do much at all.
73 de Ronnie
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by KG4TUM on September 6, 2005
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WA4MJF
I guess I didn't do a very good job on my post. What I meant to say was that the Red Cross was looking for volunteers from the amateur radio community to fill a need in the area of communications. I was responding to those who had posted earlier comments saying that hams should not be going down there, that we should leave it to the professionals.
73
Jim
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by N3DRK on September 6, 2005
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Called the ARRL today and renewed. One sure gets alot for the little 39 bucks. Without the league there would be BPL running rampant. I cannot see the anti-ARRL bashers here doing anything about BPL except crying in their beers. I do not agree with some of the issues of the League but when I see the negativity and irrationality of some of these posts, the League makes more sense.
The League receives a $100,000 grant and the worms come out of the woodwork once again and start their negative comments on this positive event.
What were the parents like of these whiners? Sounds like they would have been better off in a foster home.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by N3DRK on September 7, 2005
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K4RAF said:
"A front organization like the ARRL is too frought with cronies to be legitimately in charge of such a program.
I am making a call Tuesday. They better have some answers..."
N3DRK says:
You are not even a member of the ARRL and you are making a call on tuesday and they better have some answers! Do you realize what a pompous ass you sound like? You little pipsqueak imagining yourself to be some much bigger than the average ham that you are going to demand answers from whomever you are going to call. You always talk in riddles or are very vague. I have not figured out yet if that is done on purpose so if anyone disputes you it leaves you with an out or you are just plain stupid and irrational.
You are going alone on this one Clyde.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA4NUN on September 7, 2005
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Lotta rabid folks out there loooking for heads on platters, griping, whining, and doing everything except addressing the issue. The grant was made. That is now 5 day old history. The ARRL should have made a statement within 24 hours to clarify terms and conditions of reimbursement of expenses, and decide if it is a members only thing. Would have become a non-issue quickly. It should have been a pretty simple deal.
They may have done so, but was not brought about publicly enough.
If not, they are hiding... shame on ARRL...stinky stuff and maybe they be full of it.
Still does not sink in...OK another story...You are a wealthy alumni from a college that has only broken even and never really made enough money to move up the ladder. By the way you have terminal cancer and will be dead in 3 months. The 5 million you have left to the school for expansion and enhancement of genius level students....Well the day before you are going to die....The dean has decided to put that money into a fund to re-educate and council exposed terrorists...cuz that is where the money is really needed anyway. Happy death dude.....
In other words watch where you put your mind, money, and movements to create a better world. People are just down right mean now. Do not go flying around the country to help and wind up getting shot.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6CDE on September 7, 2005
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I think the rest of the hams should file under title VI USJD... for discriminatory practices... where it says the government can't donate to a org that does not include everyone in the same class... we are all hams... thus the class... according to the ARRL... thus the sharks can probably take the ARRL to court and make some big bucks off of them... if they use the money for themselves, or strictly for members only... or a closed to members only training class'
Quite frankly I don't see why someone hasn't done it already... but, then again... look at the caliber of people who are members... and then ask yourself ... do they know any better...
But, how can it be a hobby if its being paid for by the government even if under the guise as a grant... and who else did they give a grant to to balance out the opportunities...
It leaves a lot of questions as well as a bad image... but, who in the government was approached and who approached them to come up with this grant... hmmmmm....
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Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Support
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by KB5YLG on September 8, 2005
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Essentially, reimbursing those already in the system does not grow the number of available operators, nor does it enable operators to go, because the gas pump is not going to give you gas on a promise that you'll pay later when you get reimbursed. When the expenses are NOW, reimbursement later isn't a significant help.
Not a good plan, well-intentioned as it may be.
The people willing to go are already there. 95% of them don't have ham radio licenses. Of the 5% that do, 75% don't have General or up, which is fairly critical.
The better way to apply that money is to dangle it in front of the "served agencies" (ARES terminology) to promote amateur licensure and to train their operatives for Amateur Radio operation. They have thousands of those in the field already that could be qualified radio operators with training. Every served agency should push for ALL their field volunteers to get licensed. If they shoot for all and get half, then they'll be able to communicate! That's good for the served agency (better communications), that's good for the Amateur Radio service (new influx of radio operators instead of just training the existing bunch), and that's good for the victims (Served agencies more effective and responsive to help them).
CQ CQ CQ, is anyone listening?
David KB5YLG
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6CDE on September 8, 2005
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NOpe... I don't think so... as again were saying their are other agencys that Hams should be linking up with... that can and will provide transportation by air to the zones of impact. But, who has asked... who will put togeather a big picture plan... ahhhhh... instead they consentrate on their own little individule group... the ARRL doesn't probably even know about the Angel flight group... or Brothers to the rescue.. yet they think... we have the comm and so were the ones that they should come to... all while the volenteers who are trying to get to the sites... are having to foot the bill... by them selves... quite frankly I think the only group which has their act togeather is the Salvation Army group...
Strange that the news reporter was standing in front of their van... which clearly said... Salvation Army on it and was saying the Red Cross is playing a important roll in getting commucations set up... ahhhhh... kinda like calling black white.. but he didn't know the differance I guess... I laughed at the accurcy of the reporting ....
Some of the "Important People" which are in the ARRL and others might want to start a dialog with some of these other groups so corrdination could be attained... but, as you say... is anyone listing.. dont' think so...
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by N6VQQ on September 8, 2005
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How much do you think you would be entitled to if you were there and by your efforts and your hobby, you were able to reunite loved ones, find a person that was trapped and called in your position for help, or you were strategically positioned for forwarding of messages to some command area?
I know I would be gratified just by the deed of doing it.
I worked Hurricane Hugo in the past, and my reward for 36 hours was thanks for your efforts, and I could not have been more rewarded because I hold that service I Volunteered as a proud moment in my life , as a Ham, and as an American.
My prayers are with all that haveto endure this sad time.
73 Ron
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What's the problem?
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by KD7KGX on September 9, 2005
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I agree that hams shouldn't be paid for their time and efforts. However, many hams who might otherwise volunteer might not have the funds that are required to travel to Montgomery AL (Red Cross staging area) and then to proceed further to an assigned shelter, to pay for food, water, laundry, and vehicle expenses for another couple of weeks, and then pay their way back home. Realistically, spending two weeks as a volunteer means anywhere from 16 to 20 days total out of one's life and, depending on how far they live from Alabama, anywhere from $1,000 to $2,000 out of pocket.
For me to come down from WA state, I'd spend about $2,000 to drive down there, support myself for two full weeks, and then drive back, with gas at $3 a gallon -- and I couldn't fly down and bring the necessary gear and supplies (radios, generator, sleeping bag, clothing, emergency food and water) that would be needed to operate and stay healthy in "austere conditions" (staying in un-air conditioned shelters, no laundry facilities onsite, no guaranteed food onsite) as stated by the Red Cross.
I can see how many people who are otherwise capable and willing to help simply cannot afford to spend $2,000 out of pocket plus perhaps give up a couple weeks' wages plus additional household expenses that might be occasioned by their absence.
I think reimbursement for actual incurred expenses (gas based on receipts, a per diem for food/misc of $12 that could be used for laundry, too) might be a good idea.
We forget one other benefit of getting as many people through as volunteers: the on-the-job training they'll get in emergency communications. Surely this is worth something to the community and to the country.
And finally, where is the problem in paying the expenses of amateur radio volunteers? I was a volunteer firefighter and our department accepted grants that paid for equipment, training, and firefighting-related expenses including reimbursements for expenses that were legitimately incurred. For instance, I once accompanied the (paid) chief of the department up from south Louisiana to St Louis via commercial air to inspect, purchase, and drive back a used firetruck... and the travel and meal expenses were picked up by the department and rightly so.
If it is ethical to reimburse a volunteer firefighter for travel expenses in that case, why is it unethical to reimburse a volunteer ham for travel expenses if he gives his time to help the Red Cross during travel emergencies?
Why are hams less worthy than volunteer firefighters?
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RE: What's the problem?
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by N6VQQ on September 9, 2005
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KD7KGX
You have a very good point, after reading your reply, I feel it is only fair that some funds be allocated to these people, especially with the prices of gas today, and also many other expenses that I myself was not taking into consideration.
When I worked Hurricane Hugo, my expense's were very small, and since I worked it from the Emergency Ham Shack at the V.A. Hospital in W. Los Angeles, my equipment was not compromised.
Good job on your end.
73 Ron N6VQQ
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Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Support
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by KD7DCR on September 9, 2005
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"7 days"...that was once a movie, in May.
Here, it is 7 days after this thread started and I revisited it to see what the final outcome was...looks like Lions 12, real Hams 2 to me...
Some of these guys just seem to live to grouse and moen and whine...some just seem to live to bait others...so sad
After wading through all this tripe, what really hits me is that the only "real" suggestions or methods offered up for consideration came from "7 Land" hams...must be the water out west, eh?
Do any of these nay sayer's actually "know" their local EC or other members of their County level officials? Do they practice in their local EOC's or have a mobil command post for ??? occurances? I think NOT. They are too "busy" telling everyone what a sad state of affairs the Ham world is in, etc... And, the evil doings of that drated overlord ARRL. What drival! Get a grip I say and pray nothing really big happens near you...you might find that other's find reasons not to respond.
At least 7 land is mostly prepared.
And, most of 7 land can still aim well and pull the trigger when they have to...without talking about it.
I guess that is all any of us can truely do, keep ourselves prepared and protect those close to us. The "noise level" gets a bit high from some sectors but we still can communicate through it.
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RE: Federal Government Grant to 'Ham Aid' Will Sup
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by WA6CDE on September 9, 2005
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KD7DCR....
Well written by a 7lander for the 7 land... but... attttt thanks for playing the game... as they say... clearly you have not seen the EOC action plan for the 6 th land... ( wasn't their something about the Lord resting on the 7th... )
Here in 6 land... enough experiances with flood, fires and earthquakes have shaken up most to the point that they are not as moldy as you make them out... and while you may think the wild west stops at the river... ahhhh... I think the last time anyone said something.. 6 land because of the coastal area... which protects the inland areas... was highly defended by some pretty big guns...
But, thats not to say we could not use some brushing up on the action plan... Clearly three things have come out of what has happend...
First off commercial comm is not as good as they thought it was... the cell phone system is more frail and subject to overload and failures due to the antenna systems. Ham radio has a purpose here...
Second... While comm is being established... time is fleeting... and the effected area is cut off from everyone who needs to know.. while the news .. which doesn't.. is showing pictures of the area... and posting them on the internet.. so evacuated people as well as their family members located elsewhere and conserned about them... can see what extent of damage has been done... (this requires some hams be trained and have experiance in photography as well as ATV/stills.. and linking/computers and flying... equipment needs to be made up so that it can be placed in the aircraft without modification or excessive work... )
Thus some form of aerial recon is needed... which again hams could provide in the form of ATV or linking a small plane with the ground for a birds eye view... looking at the CAP and its sat linked high resolution photos... one can clearly see what has happend... what needs to be supplied and provides a good tool for the planners to decide what aid to give... all while not duplicating efforts or resources...
Third... self defense... and property protection... again getting the right resource to the right spot at the right time is something that needs to be improved on... Hams can play a roll in this if they will cross train and also either function as both resouce and comm or train the officers on how to work a radio which is on the ham bands... i.e classes on getting them qualified in ham commucations... and/or hams qualified as volenteer officers...
Again were seeing that a coming togeather and working as a team is needed... while each group has assigned functions and responsibilites that they are required to preform at... with clear instructions as to who does what and when...
And finally... funding and support and transportation... for these good people... as hams are non-profit and volenteers... we are restricted in accepting funds for services... no matter which way you want to cut it... you take money...for services rendered... your n viloation... but, their are things which can offset the cost ... such as using services as Angel Flight... and other transportation means which would not cost as much as driving your own car... which I feel EOC should provide for the volenteers... to use... Here transport of equipment could be done.... if known resources are found during the event... If a business or vendor wants to make a donation of... say ... fuel and its justified.. for the use its intended for... I see no reason not to be able to use it... Its not from the goverment... its one agency supplying it to another for the common good of all... with no econimic gain... Housing and meals could be provided by other service orginizations... Boy scouts, lyons, BPOE... all could provied... provided the end users are really working...
Just my take on it... from what it reduces down to...
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