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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

Emergency Nets Etiquette

Eric Behr (KC9DUX) on September 10, 2005
View comments about this article!

I have been monitoring more than usual recently, and I am very disappointed by the way some hams are behaving in this time of crisis. Most people out there are doing a truly fantastic job, but some of us are doing amateur radio a real disservice.

Anyone who has any contact with the outside world knows by now that two main 40 meter and 80 meter nets run by the West Coast ARES are handling most of the traffic, and that the ARRL has asked everyone to give them 5 kHz of elbow room on either side. But night after night I hear "nets" or other QSOs, with amps full blast on and deviation at scary levels, 2 or even 1 kHz away from the well-advertised frequencies. These people also routinely ignore breakers who want to politely ask them to move, or -- when they do they heap abuse on them. This may be a coincidence, but many of these operators go on for as long as 30 minutes with no ID. I won't mention specific callsigns this time.

To those folks who say "we've been meeting here since 1955 and we won't budge", I say: I hope your loved one is in an emergency one of these days, and you will need help getting through to the net with strong QRM nearby.

The net controls and their relays, tired after hours of work day in and day out, need to pull out some very weak signals, given the current propagation and the nature of emergency operations. The last thing they need is a strong CW carrier which covers everything else. It is amazing to me that there are still many dozens of people who tune up, sometimes for minutes on end, the moment the NC stops talking and starts listening. How clueless can one get? Reduce your power; find a spot a few kHz away, then tune. Otherwise you are doing the very opposite of what we need to do -- you are preventing communications instead of facilitating them.

Finally, please get informed a bit before you speak up. I can't count the number of times when I heard someone trying to pass health and welfare traffic on the emergency net, or emergency traffic on the health and welfare net. Or people submitting messages which had no recipient and no sender specified. Or those who had the noble intention of helping the net, but couldn't even hear the NC or any relays well. You don't need to take the Emergency Communications course to know that you can't help much if you can't hear well and can't be heard.

I'm sorry if I sound sour, but after listening for a while I am not so surprised that the "pros" treat us as amateurs, and don't want to trust us with important life-saving jobs anymore. For the sake of ham radio, please obey some basic rules. Even if you don't think the nets are of any use, and you don't feel bound by ARRL appeals, and you don't want to get involved, please let others be without interfering with them. The nets are taking up a small sliver of the bandwidth we are still fortunate to have.

Thanks and 73

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by X-WB1AUW on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
<deviation at scary levels>
What is a scary level of deviation for SSB?

<Reduce your power; find a spot a few kHz away, then tune.>
I seem to remember at least one amp manufacturer saying their amp should be tuned for the drive level that will be used.

<"pros" treat us as amateurs>
Thought we are amateurs?
Who are the pros?

Bob
 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by WJ2L on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Many ops are doing useful work for the disaster. The criticism written is useful as well and needs to be said. How do we want others to see Ham Radio Operators? Stop, listen, and think before you add to the confusion with an unwanted transmission. Ask yourself the question, am I helping or hindering the emergencey operations. You might be able to help just by being thoughtful and considerate.
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by K8MHZ on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Bob,

Check the archives of www.hamsexy.com.

You should need no further explanation about the attitudes of the pros.

73,

K8MHZ
 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W8JII on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
You say you won't mention the call letters of the offending staions at this time. Why not? Let everyone know who these idiots are. 73, ron
 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by N0SAP on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
The day after the hurricane, I was listening to the 7.290 net, waiting for a local TV station to interview about ham radios role in emergencies. H&W messages are being accepted from everyone. As soon as the cameras are rolling, there is a breaking station NCS could not hear. I was asked to relay. It was the Director of FEMA in Texas with a message from the President to the Mayor of New Orleans. NCS refered him to 7.285. FEMA said he would not be entertained there and was ask to go to 7.290. NCS said she could not get a message to the Mayor,SO DID NOT TAKE THE MESSAGE. Yet, all other traffic was accepted with no problem.

Let's keep dumbing down ham radio, it's already showing the effects, when everyone's message gets thru but the President's. Makes me wonder, where did all the other messages go to.
 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by K0RFD on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I've listened to the ARES net on 3873 most nights this week. The only interference I've heard so far doesn't seem to be deliberate at all. That net is in or near the AM window, and there were AM stations above and below the net causing heterodynes. The AMers were in 6-land, the Net Control was in 5-land, and I'm sure they couldn't hear each other, certainly they weren't bothering each other because nobody was asking anybody else to move. I live in Colorado, smack in between, so I could hear them all. It was easy to fix with Auto-Notch, and I wasn't passing traffic anyway, just listening in case somebody needed a relay.

I really think people have been pretty respectful this time around. In the past, I have heard lots of tuneups and sound effects over both the Hurricane Watch and SATERN nets, but not this time. Hams seem to fully understand the magnitude of this disaster.

Shoot, I even heard the notorious ND8V pulling a shift as Net Control on the 20-meter SATERN net this week. Talk about "finding religion" in a time of crisis...
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by N3DRK on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Your kidding me! You mean the ARRL is not to blame?
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W6TH on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
.

Quality not quantity is the keynote. ARRL calls this ham radio a hobby, so be it.

We get what we ask for; ask and it shall be given, seek and you will find, dumb down and the door will be open for you.

.:
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by OLDFART13 on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I have been listening to the SATERN nets and have not noticed this jamming and interfence that you are talking about. The hams are doing a great job at helping out and providing assistance. Why does everything about hams have to have a negative spin on it? Oh yeah! Because this is the hamsexy looser, eham site that can only show hams in a negative manner; forget about all the great work they are doing down there and how it is requested that hams actaully go down there to assist!

For the author to actually say "I hope your loved one is in an emergency one of these days, and you will need help getting through to the net with strong QRM nearby." says alot about him. That is what you hope for your fellow hams?
 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by KD7GPH on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
You are 100% correct. I listen and hear the same overpowered, wide band rigs and on-frequency tuners all the time. It is not difficult to note obvious, repeat offenders. If the reply to a contact is "20 over 9", cut back power, enjoy the good propagation while it lasts. If we can't operate properly in an emergency we don't deserve the spectrum.

 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by WB4M on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Unfortunately, people who interfere with nets will alway be with us. There are people out there who have not and will not make it any further up the food chain. Reaching idiot level is as far up as they can go. Pity them, they are fools, and they do not even know they are fools.
I agree with another poster who suggested that you DO reveal callsigns of the mentally deprived interferers. Make a cassette tape of them and give it to the FCC. Take action!
 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by NA4IT on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
To have and keep a clear frequency for use such as we have just been through, the FCC needs to go back to the practice of "declaring" a frequency and buffer for emergency use. Then you have "teeth" with which to "bite" the offenders.

I too heard the interference, and heard the folks about 2 kcs down from 3873 questioning the nets "authority" to be there. Tried to capture the callsigns, but they say them so fast, you can't make them out on the recording. But, they know who they are.

When it involves a disaster that is widely publicized across tv networks, there should be NO question. The old tale "we were here first" simply does not apply.

Another thing on a positive note, thanks to the folks on the Ambassdors for Christ net on 7280 for pausing their net so H/W traffic could be passed there. That my friends, is cooperation as it should be!

All in all, amateurs across the US, and especially those working in the terrible conditions in the gulf, deserve a huge thank you for a job well done.
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by KB2CPW on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!


Post the calls and freqs they use, and let the NAL's flow by putting them on notice with the entire ham community. If everyone monitors and records this nonsense and reports it, they will be dealt with accordingly.. Hey, I like to have fun on the radio and feel amateur radio is much more relaxed than years ago, but when it comes to emergency traffic and life saving efforts, it's then time to move or assist with the operation. Shame on these people and shame on anyone who hears it and doesnt report it.. The FCC will not act without proof so do what you got to do to make someone a $10,000 example. N2ZD
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by ARRLFAN on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Who cares ??!!

If you really want to help stop whining and go and volunteer your "professiona;" service with the RED CROSS and SATERN .. they are begging for over 200 hams as of this morning to help man the distribution points and shelters...

yet you want to whine that someone is coming up on a freq close to a West Coast netwrok..

what a bunch of frickin whiners...

 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by K3GI on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I too am disappointed at what I've heard.
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by THERAGE on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
<I hope your loved one is in an emergency one of these days, and you will need help getting through to the net with strong QRM nearby.>

Not good!! For some one to come out and blast their fellow hams with a statement like that is uncalled for.

<I have been MONITORING more than usual recently, and I am very disappointed by the way some hams are behaving in this time of crisis.>

and

<But night after night I HEAR "nets" or other QSOs, with amps full blast on and deviation at scary levels, 2 or even 1 kHz away from the well-advertised frequencies.>

also

<I can't count the number of times when I HEARD someone trying to pass health and welfare traffic on the emergency net, or emergency traffic on the health and welfare net.>

You say you MONITOR and HEAR and HEARD but... ARE YOU DOING ANYTHING ON THE AIR OR OTHERWISE TO HELP OUT IN THIS CRISIS???

<I'm sorry if I sound sour, but after listening for a while I am not so surprised that the "pros" treat us as amateurs, and don't want to trust us with important life-saving jobs anymore.>

APOLOGY NOT EXCEPTED HERE! After that "I hope your loved one" statement was made, you just knocked off a few too many tiles on the space shuttle with me. If you wish to be a palatine in ham radio, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT INSTEAD. Take those callsigns, frequencies, UTC's (if you are even logging them) and run it up the flagpole.

God bless the ones who HAVE done something to help the Katrina victims.

 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by KC9DUX on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
To those who take exception to my "I hope your loved one is in an emergency..." phrase: I simply don't know what else can make the inconsiderate people wake up and start playing nice. I don't wish anyone any harm; but I also think that it's inexcusable and utterly egotistic to refuse to QSY in this situation.

Regarding posting callsigns: I am not an official observer, and I don't like playing a cop. I wrote the original article in the hope that people who see it might think twice about their operating, and that there won't be any need to post callsigns or complain to the FCC.

To "THERAGE": I did relay a few times when I heard a station that the NC or regular relays didn't hear. I also passed some traffic to the Coast Guard by phone in the first days. But since the regular relays are usually running power and have good antennas, while I'm barefoot and feeding the downspout of my gutters, I don't have a chance to help very often - so yes, I mainly monitor and stay quiet. No need to try and make me feel guilty.

Thanks all for the comments.
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by ARRLFAN on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Dude --

have the balls to at least list the DTG and the callsigns and freqs .. if you don't have the balls to break in on the conversation and tell the idiots that they are wrong well -- some of us do...

also -- post their callsigns -- and we can drop them a note or phone call and ask them to stop...

all you have done today is bascially said; "someone somewhere is doing something I don't like and I want to whine about it becuase i don't have the balls myself to confront them or even tell you who they are"...

 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W6TH on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
.
ARRLFAN

Balls said the Queen, if I had them I would be King.

.:
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by URBANGORILLA on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
ARRLFAN, are you GOATBOYHF by another name?

73
UG
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by THERAGE on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
<No need to try and make me feel guilty.>

My intent was not to make you feel guilty. but the next time you post an article (like this) over a hot pot of coffee like you did here, expect to get flamed or ripped a new one. ;-)
 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by SWANMAN on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
And people had to pass a code test for this?
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by URBANGORILLA on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
THERAG, are you ARRLFAN by another name?

73
UG
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by KC0UKK on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I'm a new operator, so this is a real question, not sarcasm.

You said that "NCS said she could not get a message to the Mayor,SO DID NOT TAKE THE MESSAGE"

I thought that WAS correct procedure; that to accept a message that could not be delivered was an error.

Am I mistaken?
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W6TH on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
.
KC0UKK

When a message is sent to a operator who cannot deliver the message, the receiving operator will send a message back to the original sender that the message could not be delivered. Proper procedure.

.:
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W6EM on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Eric, KC9DUX says:
"But night after night I hear "nets" or other QSOs, with amps full blast on and deviation at scary levels, 2 or even 1 kHz away from the well-advertised frequencies."

Eric: Deviation is a descriptor for FM modulation and a convolution of both amplitude and frequency of the modulating audio. SSB is suppressed-carrier AM, and its bandwidth is a function of the the product of modulation and carrier frequencies. Bandwidth of those who are running Hi-Fi SSB can be pretty wide as their higher frequency audio content (above 3kHz) is not suppressed to same extent as that from the rest of us.

If the guys you complain of are running Hi-Fi SSB without consideration of their bandwidth, that's quite inconsiderate. But, you should be able to help the situation somewhat by using a narrower bandpass filter in your receiver or some type of active filter that accomplishes the same bandpass reduction in your receiver.

You should, though, post here a list of calls, dates, times, etc., for the rest of us to take note of. While you say you dislike playing policeman, think of it as a means to help save lives and reduce suffering.


 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by KK9H on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I think it is absolutely appalling and inexcusable that anyone in the ham community wouldn't show the utmost in courtesy and desire to help at a time like this. Period!
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by N6AJR on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
why is it that the folks who complain the most, and use rude and foul languiage here on the eham, have no call listed, just a phoney name.

there are ladies and children who read these comments, so please refrain from the rude and sexually orientated comments. Please.

And don't tune up on top of a qso, ever, that is common sense. What would your mother say if she caught you acting this way.. MY, My,

use your brains for something besides keeping your ears from coliding.

tom N6AJR
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by N6AJR on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
why is it that the folks who complain the most, and use rude and foul languiage here on the eham, have no call listed, just a phoney name.

there are ladies and children who read these comments, so please refrain from the rude and sexually orientated comments. Please.

And don't tune up on top of a qso, ever, that is common sense. What would your mother say if she caught you acting this way.. MY, My,

use your brains for something besides keeping your ears from coliding.

tom N6AJR
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by K3WVU on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
URBANGORILLA,

Yep--ARRLFAN is Goatboy, IMBACKHF, and a myriad of other previously banned posters. Ever notice how he posts his comments twice? Really wants attention---a cry for help, I assume! LOL!
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by AC0H on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
KC9DUX wrote:

<<"Regarding posting callsigns: I am not an official observer, and I don't like playing a cop. I wrote the original article in the hope that people who see it might think twice about their operating, and that there won't be any need to post callsigns or complain to the FCC.">>

Then the problem will continue.
Exactly what good does it do to post this here?
I'd be willing to bet none of the trouble makers your talking about hang out here. You need to grow some cajones and report any malicious interference to someone who can do something about it rather than wasting time and bandwidth preaching to the choir on E-Ham.net
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by ARRLFAN on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
actually -- would't it be funny if I was actually K3WVU and made up other callsigns becuase i didnt have the balls to say what i really wanted to otherwise..

now one thing that K3WVU is great at is complaining to the moderators so much that he gets folks banned -- but hey in the 30 minutes it takes to get one banned it takes less then 10 seconds to get a new callsign...

and anyone that allows women and children to read this forum is just fricking stupid ... complaining about eham's lack of professionalism is like complaining to Playboy that there are too many naked women in the magazine!!!!

But to set the record straight -- Im not IMBACKHF or goatthing...

but i do have a callsign unlike K3WVU who actually is not K3WVU but just grapped his callsign --
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by WA4MJF on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
ARRLFAN, if you have a callsign,
why don't you use it? Yeh, maybe
because you're a coward and can't
walk the walk when you talk the talk?

I guess you get a big thrill from
posting everything twice, but most
of us think it is kinda retarded.

Ronnie
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W6TH on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
.

The Definition of Liberty:

The condition of being free from restriction or control.
Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
A right or immunity to engage in certain actions without control or interference: the liberties protected by the Bill of Rights.

It sure is welcomed here on eHAM today.

.:
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by AD5TD on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Why does it always end up in a Pi$$ing contest?

I heard the same inconsiderate LIDs also. The FCC should declare Emergency Frequencies for use in this kind of disaster. People who interfere with the nets should be prosecuted. The FCC should come down hard on these "operators". And before you charge up the ol' Flame Thrower, I DID something to help. I passed traffic, I donated supplies, I loaned equipment to our group that is in the "war zone" right now. I am an EC for my county. I built a communications room for our County EOC. So yes, I CAN Bitch.

73

 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by WA4MJF on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
As I'm sure that you know, being an
EC and all, that the FCC will make
such declaration on application of
the appropriate FEMA official/State or local
Emergency Manager. However, as
the HF frequencies that are eligible
for such declaration are in the 60
(sic) Meter Band and no one seems
to be using them for the current
emergency, no request for a
declaration has been forthcoming.

73 de Ronnie
OBS/OES
 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by WA4NUN on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Looks like a lot of LIDS, MORONS, IDIOTS, and just plain dumb ass operators with a licence do not care about ememrgency traffic. I would be the first to admit that I do not know all the freq's they are working on, but if I step on one and they ask me to move due to my ignorance, I am going to give them plenty of space, or any other net for that matter. The freq's we have to operate on are a priv, and not a right, and can be taken away a lot easier than they were granted.

I can't think of a worse PR nightmare than having a news media person in a ham shack with an operator helping people out in this crisis with a knowingly interfering station being a jerk. Shut your whining traps and give those in ham radio who want to help others a chance to get their job done.

When I need more freq's to operate in, I'll upgrade my licence. How bought you whiners go down the same thought path?

I know that this does not apply to the majority of hams....but there are those.....that......well, you know who you are!
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by AD5TD on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
And you have nailed why 60M will NEVER be used. NOBODY has equipment! Yes, Yes, I know, you and you and you do, but MOST people don't and DON,T want to mod their gear (like me). So, (as I said) the FCC needs to make a declaration for the 80m and 40M frequencies that people CAN use.

(steps off soapbox)

Thank you,
AD5TD
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by KI4BNH on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I believe it was perfectly reasonable for the originator to post his message. Even if we cannot directly contribute due to propagation, etc. we sure can listen and notify an OO who can initiate action. We need to know when abuse occurs, it reminds us that ALL Hams are not noble and I think we all need to be conscious of proper emerg. procedures.

My suggestion to the original poster: find an OO and alert he/she with freq./time at a minimum. If you caught the calls, tell the OO. In this day of massive political correctness and fears of the ol legal system, I can appreciate the guy not wanting to blast away with the callsigns here. But their local OO's SHOULD be made aware.

Doug J
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by AD5TD on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by NA4NUN:"The freq's we have to operate on are a priv, and not a right, and can be taken away a lot easier than they were granted."

Brother, you got THAT right!
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by ARRLFAN on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
WA4MJF --

Oh WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

Better increase your email mailbox size...I'm sure you just made some list -- LOL

 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by WA4MJF on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Email me if you want, got plenty big
box. I get a lotta nuts that write,
along with some sane folks. A lot,
I have to recommend anger management to,
they're really have some problems and
can't carry on a civil, semi-intelligent
conversation.

Ronnie
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by VE3RTS on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
It's 22:00 EST and I'm listening to a couple of operators on 3.875 having a rag chew. I wonder if they just don't know or don't care?
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by KB5DPE on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS can have ANY amateur frequency at any time, anyplace, anywhere. No additional laws or clarification is necessary. Unless I am mistaken, there already exist rather harsh penalties for violations of this law. Amateurs not directly involved in the emergency operations need to: 1. Shut off your transmitter (that will preclude your getting involved in a verbal dispute with anyone, tying up the frequency further.
2. Drag out the recorder. (Obvious)
3. Forward your recordings to the EMERGENCY AUTHORITY involved, NOT the FCC, after the emergency has been resolved.
To restate, an amateur's role, particularly a non participant, is to OBSERVE and REPORT. Leave the enforcement to the appropriate authorities!
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W6EM on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
OK OK OK.

Here's the Rule that has been used frequently in the past. I have NO idea why that the ARRL did not request the groupings of frequencies or band segments to be declared for use by and for Katrina relief as they have done previously for major disasters:

Sec. 97.401 Operation during a disaster.


(b) When a disaster disrupts normal communication systems in a particular area, the FCC may declare a temporary state of communication emergency. The declaration will set forth any special conditions and
special rules to be observed by stations during the communication emergency. A request for a declaration of a temporary state of emergency should be directed to the EIC in the area concerned.

*Note* EIC or Engineer in Charge of the nearest district office is no longer the appropriate title of the person to whom the request should be made. Now, I understand that its the District Director.
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by ARRLFAN on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
WA4MJF

Perhaps you could better spend your time learning proper grammer ... LOL

< Email me if you want, got plenty big
box.>

Who taught you to speak ? Tonto??

< A lot, I have to recommend anger management to,
they're really have some problems and
can't carry on a civil, semi-intelligent
conversation.>

Have no idea what <they're really have some problems> mean --

perhaps the mere excitement of writing to me has made you over excited and its time to slip on your Depends and take your medicine...

anyway -- isn't it past your old person bedtime???
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by WA4MJF on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Obviously, you missed my earlier posting,
last year the FCC changed the process for
getting a declaration. It must now be requested
by a FEMA official/State or local Emergency
Manager to FCC in DC. The only HF frequencies
eligible for such declaration are in the 60 (sic)
Meter band.

VHF and higher frequencies may also be declared.

73 de Ronnie
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by WA4MJF on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
It means that they aren't very
polite. You can let someone know
that you think they're off base
and be civil about it, as I do.
Or you can cuss (sign of low intelligence),
threaten death and/or bodily harm, hey,
we all gotta go some time. I'm sure
you know the type.

BTW, I have a good working knowledge
of American English and some of the
Queen's English. I can do some injun, too! :-)
Howsomeever, I try to just talk and write in the accustomed manner of us 4 landers. No need
to put on airs, when it ain't necessary.

Actually, I stay up late and sleep late.

Ronnie


 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W6EM on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
WA4MJF: If you are correct in what you claim about changes to declared emergency protocol and involvement by the Commission, then the ARRL sure hasn't included that in their 60Meter information page. Nor, can I find it on the FCC's site anywhere.

Frankly, if its true, its an assenine decision. Why?
To restrict declared emergency protection to only 5 very restricted channels with output power limited to 50W ERP is like saying, "from now on, we don't care about protecting emergency operations."

Perhaps that is/was their intent, if they, in fact did revise the regulation in that way.

If you have the Report and Order that made the change, please post its number so I can read the relevant commentary.

Thanks.

Lee
W6EM
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by K4JF on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
<To restrict declared emergency protection to only 5 very restricted channels with output power limited to 50W ERP is like saying, "from now on, we don't care about protecting emergency operations."

Perhaps that is/was their intent, if they, in fact did revise the regulation in that way.>

They did not. There is no restriction of emergency traffic to any particular band. Any band may be used as necessary.

 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by AD5TD on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
No Emergency frequencies have been RESTRICTED, the FCC just does not PROTECT any Emergency frequencies (save 60M (useless) and VHF) anymore. Very sad. This is what happens when you only have one ham on the board of the FCC.
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W8WZ on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I have also heard the QRM on the 14.265 SATERN nets.
There were instances of well meaning hams checking in at the wrong time and being unfamiliar with traffic passing/net protocalls. These problems can be solved through better education. Hopefully those well meaning hams will learn from their mistakes and do better next time. In an ideal world they would have to know these skills before they are licensed, but I digress...

There were also many instances of tune-ups on freq, splatter, etc. There was even a situation where a station using a ficticious Spanish Callsign kept calling CQ DX whenever the net control paused to listen for traffic. We can argue and gripe about why these things happen, and say in the old days we were better behaved. But the sad fact is - this is our current reality. We do have a LOT of LIDS on HF. The QRM we are discussing proves it.

The best thing we can do, IMHO is ignore them. Filter them out - literally. When a well meaning ham gets into an on air argument with the QRMer it makes it worse. Also, the net control op has an even harder time hearing what she/he is listening for if the rest of us are all transmitting to tell the QRMer to QSY.

Let Net Control address the person if they choose to - once to make sure that if it is accidental the person can end it. But in most cases, the best thing to do is filter and ignore.

Good info about this topic in K0OV/WB6UZZ's book "Xmtr Hunting:RDF Simplified".

 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by KC9DUX on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
W6EM wrote:

> Eric: Deviation is a descriptor for FM modulation and a convolution of
> both amplitude and frequency of the modulating audio. SSB is
> suppressed-carrier AM, and its bandwidth is a function of the the
> product of modulation and carrier frequencies.

Of course you are correct. I sloppily used jargon to describe the
phenomenon of overly modulated audio and larger than normal
bandwidth which causes splatter beyond the usual frequency range.
As far as filtering goes, that is certainly a solution, but not everyone
has that capability, and the QRM was often impossible to get rid of
with simple passband tuning.

To all those accusing me of not having balls to post callsigns: I don't
think eham is a forum for blacklisting people. Besides, some of the
operators whose IDs I have did ultimately move, although with great
reluctance.

Some of those who ignored breakers might not have heard them (very
unlikely, but possible). In short, I am not out to get anyone specific and
I don't have recordings etc. My article was meant as a reminder for all
of us that in the time of crisis it is particularly important to remember
that amateur radio is a service, not just a hobby, and to challenge the
mindset of "to hell with everyone else, I will do as I please".

I don't think we should need an FCC emergency order to keep the
handful of emergency nets free of QRM. If we do, we all are in serious
trouble. I'm a little surprised that I caught some flak for saying this
here.

For VE3RTS re. QSO on 3875: as far as I know the emergency nets on
3873 and 7285 were deactivated this morning (Saturday), so this isn't
an issue anymore at those frequencies. I'm not sure about the 3835
and 7290 health and welfare nets, I haven't heard much on them today
either. Per ARRL, 3862 is supposed to be an "open net" frequency
from now on.

Again, thanks for the comments and 73.
 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by KILOWATT on September 10, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Mr. Behr.....

Human nature NEVER lets me down. Many of us are good humanitarians and think of others before ourselves but many more are self-centered creatures that merely talk a good game when the rest of us are around. When the buffer zone of a radio, the internet or a telephone are present; we tend to see the true "nature of the beast". Anonimity tends to bring out the true nature of people.

This is why I chuckle anytime I see people en masse, holding hands and singing touchy-feely songs about helping their fellow man. hihi! I know damned well that half of them don't give a flying flip about their fellow man. They're just putting on the show they think they're supposed to for the rest.

Don't expect too much and you won't be disappointed.

We're animals too. Just not as nice as the lesser animals.

Kilowatt
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by AB0WR on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
kc0ukk:
"I'm a new operator, so this is a real question, not sarcasm.

You said that "NCS said she could not get a message to the Mayor,SO DID NOT TAKE THE MESSAGE"

I thought that WAS correct procedure; that to accept a message that could not be delivered was an error.

Am I mistaken? "


Just so everyone knows, New Orleans was being evacuated, no hams were on the air from New Orleans other than one or two QRP CW and SSB stations doing tactical work, and NO ONE was being allowed into the city to set up a station.

The NCS's on 7290 turned away ALL traffic destined for New Orleans. There just wasn't any way to get a message into the area via amateur radio on the 7290 net.

The President's communication people should have known this. Supposedly the New Orleans EOC had a internet link up during the whole period (I assume it was a satellite link). That link should have been used to deliver the President's message.

tim ab0wr
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by WI4SS on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"You say you won't mention the call letters of the offending staions at this time. Why not? Let everyone know who these idiots are. 73, ron"

No kidding... whoever the dirtbags are, etc... just simply post their callsigns...
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by WA4MJF on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Lee, I said so and that shoulda been enuff
{ :-) },
however, for your reading delight,
go to the ARRL home page on click on
the link in the stroy about the FCC
working on the weekend. When you get
there go to the very bottom of the
page and click for informal guidance
on Amateur ECDs.

This has been in effect for a while,
sometime last year, I woulda thought that
all hams actively involved in emergency
comms woulda knowa about it by now.

73 de Ronnie
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W5HTW on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
<<by W6TH on September 10, 2005
KC0UKK

When a message is sent to a operator who cannot deliver the message, the receiving operator will send a message back to the original sender that the message could not be delivered. Proper procedure.>>


Nuts. If I know in advance I won't be able to deliver a message, why in the world would I accept it in the first place? Just to up my traffic count and delay delivery?

The person was right. If you can't deliver the message, don't take it. But TH is right also - if once you have accepted the message, because you believed you would be able to deliver it, and then find you can't, yes, send a service message back stating you can't deliver it.
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W6EM on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
WA4MJF Ronnie:

I wasn't able to find the link you say exists. However, I did find an ARRL release as follows:

"Special Counsel Riley Hollingsworth of the FCC's Enforcement Bureau says the FCC has not issued an Emergency Communication Declaration (ECD) for any emergency net frequency.

"Section 97.101(c) gives priority to emergency communications at all times," he points out, noting there have been very few problems with interference during the current emergency. Given the overall level of cooperation so far within the Amateur Radio community, Hollingsworth told ARRL that he does not anticipate the need for the FCC to issue an ECD. The FCC is aware of all emergency net frequencies, however....."

Clearly, the FCC still can and will make ECDs to any piece of Part 97 spectrum they choose to, not just on a constrained band allocation of 5 discrete experimental frequencies. Mr. Hollingsworth speaks with authority and knowledge.

If the FCC wished to nullify or change the ECD provisions of its rules and regulations, it must have issued, via public notice, a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking so that the public may have commented on its intended changes before they are/were inacted. No such notice was apparently given, so no change to the Code of Federal Regulations occurred. Case closed.

Lee
W6EM

 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by WA4MJF on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Lee, I sent you the page via direct EMail.

For all y'all others here is the URL:
http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/emcom-declarations.html

73 de Ronnie
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by WA4MJF on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I forgot to mention, the rules
and regulations were not changed,
just the FCC announced a policy
for implementing the applicable
rules and regulations and therefore
there were no legal hoops to jump
through as Lee described.

73 de Ronnie
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W6EM on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Ronnie:

OK. Got it now. Well, it was written by a gentleman at the ARRL, not the FCC. So, although it looks like an official policy, it is only an ARRL official policy.

You can rest assured that I will communicate my concerns over what appears to be a convolution of "desired emergency operating frequencies to best coordinate with FEMA" with the basic purpose of 97.401, which is to declare frequencies to be dedicated to a specific emergency to protect them from interference. Somebody, probably at the ARRL, who wants to "exercise" 60M activity is no doubt behind this directive. Along those lines, they just conducted a poll to see how many of us are using the mini-allocation.

How practical is a presumed preference of 60M for all emergencies? Somewhere close to zero. Why? Most of us have no, I repeat, NO capability to operate there.

Plus, while 50W ERP USB may be fine for a limited mobile, absolutely nothing but legal limit (or even whatever it takes, according to the regs) to establish and maintain emergency communications should be the norm. Besides, FEMA has plenty of frequency-agile gear to come up just about anywhere necessary.

The ARRL can "issue" any official-appearing directives they want to. Until and unless issued by the FCC, they aren't worth very much. Except, perhaps, to be thought provoking. This one is.

Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

Lee
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by NA4IT on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
The declaration was not written by the ARRL, it was done by the FCC. The ARRL simply re-published it.

The original FCC link is http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/katrina/AmateurEmergencyCommunicationsDeclaration.pdf
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by WA4MJF on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Lee, the ARRL does not write
FCC policy. I sent you another
EMail with the FCC's announcement
of the policy effect 01 AUG 04.
They report on it. The page author
on the bottom is the one that posted
the notice on the ARRL's website.

73 de Ronnie


 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by K2WH on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I disagree with alot of what the original poster states. This notion of "Blasting" linear amps and "Audio at scary levels" is really stupid.

Has it ever occured to you, the stations you hear supposedly interfering, do not have propagation into the affected area and or the net control operator. That means they do not hear the net. Yes, unless you are a ham living in a phone booth, you must have heard about the frequencies in use. So I give you that. I'm also curious why you did not mention the 14.265mhz frequency? Are we discussing only CW traffic?

I also wonder why self hating hams like yourself, who moan about and are afraid of the so called bad publicity hams receive due to supposed jamning, feel the need to publicize the bad behaviour thereby adding to the publicity and causing more bad behaviour. Why don't you go hit your thumb with a hammer a few times or flog yourself. Maybe that will make you feel better. Instead of listening to the traffic, go call CQ somewhere and let the "Pro's" handle it. You do not need to get involved, especially not this way.

BTW, the term is not "Deviation" (that is for FM use), and who are the "Pro's"? Are there professional traffic handlers?

K2WH






 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by K2WH on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I also forgot to mention, there is no way you can tell if someone is using a linear or not. I love the way hams believe a strong signal must be coming from a ham using a linear. Ever hear of an efficient antenna or great propagation?

Unless you are in the room with the operator or you heard him say he was using high power, you cannot tell.
A strong signal is a strong signal whether 1 watt of 1500 watts.

K2WH
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by K3WVU on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Goatboy/Imbackhf/arrlfan/k4fau wrote:

"But to set the record straight -- Im not IMBACKHF or goatthing..."

Yeah right, same misspellings, same rants, same lack of knowledge, not to mention same lack of cajones.

Of course, you can't post with a callsign if you don't have one! LOL!!
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by KE5EJU on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Having had my ticket for around 6 months now, and now that I stand back and watch, there is a LOT of mumbling back and forth between hams and why this ham did that and it ended up offending another ham. It's like a Southern Baptist church. (Don't be offended, I'm a member of one.) There is so much backstabbing and many assortments of groups that have done things the same way for (insert # of years). Yes, I would be upset if someone stepped on my toes and pushed me out of the way. Staying on that frequency and causing QRM is definitely not the solution to the "problem".

From what I am told, amateur radio is supposed to police itself. At least that's what I had learned over this short amount of time. From all of the cutbacks the FCC has had to deal with over time, I would imagine they have to pick and choose their battles. After all this has gone on, I begin to see where the downfall of amateur radio started from. Let us all try to improve this hobby and make it enjoyable for next generations. It's our only hope.


Will try to be the best beginner (and open-minded) ham op I can be- 73, and good wishes to all.

KE5EJU
John
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W6EM on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
K2WH says:
"I also forgot to mention, there is no way you can tell if someone is using a linear or not. I love the way hams believe a strong signal must be coming from a ham using a linear. Ever hear of an efficient antenna or great propagation?

Unless you are in the room with the operator or you heard him say he was using high power, you cannot tell.
A strong signal is a strong signal whether 1 watt of 1500 watts."

At times it pays to be an old timer..... Ever heard the rattle of a blower squirrel cage in the background? About 90% effective at linear identification, if the station is running REAL power. Ceramic tubes virtually all require forced air, not muffin fans. Ah, but the Russian versions use water. I forgot. You won't hear running water unless a water fountain is spilling away the waste heat.

But, I agree with you that its normally only an additional 10 to 12dB over a barefoot transceiver, well, its supposed to be......

Its probably more of a bandwidth/splatter problem anyway, thanks to unnecessary speech compressors and excessive high frequency audio.


 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by THERAGE on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
<Having had my ticket for around 6 months now, and now that I stand back and watch, there is a LOT of mumbling back and forth between hams and why this ham did that and it ended up offending another ham.>

You learn quickly. this site is a place for most to stand on a soapbox and sing their beliefs, dis-beliefs, and any other ruckess that they would not display on the bands. Hi, Hi.

<Will try to be the best beginner (and open-minded) ham op I can be- 73, and good wishes to all.>

That's the spirit. Operate with the best practices, find a good elmer, participate with a local club, get a hold of a antenna handbook (before you come to the elmers in here for questions), and try not to let some of us ol' pharts discourage you away from the hobby/service. Glad to have you on board.

73
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by X-WB1AUW on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I've always imagined that net control ops run some kind of DSP to null tuner-upers (CW carrier).

Bob
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by XV2PS on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
The kind of comment that shows high IQ:

<<Perhaps you could better spend your time learning proper grammer ... LOL >>

GrammEr? Ridiculous in that sort of sentence, isn't it?
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by KILOWATT on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
The kind of comment that shows high IQ:

<<Perhaps you could better spend your time learning proper grammer ... LOL >>

GrammEr? Ridiculous in that sort of sentence, isn't it?



Isn't that the truth? hihi!!!

All too many of the "know-it-all" posters here at eham have the most atrocious spelling and grammar. It's hard to take anyone serious when they write like a child. It makes me wonder how severe the amateur radio testing truly is! Obviously, any putz can pass.

kilowatt


 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by KT4XF on September 11, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I did hear someone using W5DBG using foul language on 7.290 @ 21:45/21:55E on 9-6-05.. .. .. I started calling my O/O but the line was busy & I didn't have a recording device.
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by KE4SKY on September 12, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
>Subject: FCC changes declaration process
>http://tinyurl.com/62o44
>
>Important changes here:
>
>1) Requests must come from Emergency Manager or someone who has >designated by the Emergency Manager
>
>2) No longer will you see a declaration for any High Frequency radio channels (except 60 meters). Requests will be for VHF or UHF channels only and those five frequencies in the 60 meter band.
>
>3) The request must come AFTER a communications disaster has occurred.
>
>What does this mean?
>
>1) Emergency Management Radio Officers will need to know how to file and to whom to file the requests. Before, the requests have generally been handled by the American Radio Relay League official in the Section impacted by the event. Now there appears to be a specific format.
>
>2) Amateur Radio operators need to beef up their 60 meter capabilities. While the fine print says we can use other frequencies "under the provisions of Section 97.101(c)", I would find it illogical
>to grant a 3.900 mHz request when there are five channels in the 60 meter band capable of being used.
>
>3) Gone are the days when the declaration was issued before the hurricane struck. Now you know why the declaration for FL for Hurricanes Bonnie and Charlie were not done before hand.
>
>This may mean you will see fewer HF nets established, you may see a greater use of the 60 meter band for Emergency Communications, and an
>even more meaningful use of amateur radio operators by emergency managers.
>
>This may mean you will see fewer declarations, period. Since the EM should have a good working relationship with the ham radio operators in
>his community, it could be that the local hams would just voluntarily help with the disaster and, as gentlemen will, keep the repeater free
>for disaster communication. There's no need to declare if the job's getting done.
>
>The Mid Atlantic Emergency Net on 5330.5 USB (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/60Meters_EmCom/)
meets once monthly on the first Wednesday at 2000 Eastern for drills limited to 30 minutes. Virginia, Pennsylvania and Delaware were getting folks on board, even before this change happened.

>You may see other sections follow suit. If they don't, IMO, the role of civilian ECOM may, by default, fall to Military Affiliate Radio >System operators with their modified radios and channelized HF operations.

 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W6EM on September 12, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
KE4SKY:

Rather than "stand-up and salute", you ought to tell us what you *think* about the apparent change as to not what the FCC wants to do, but what the FCC MUST DO to PROTECT and FACILITATE emergency communications.

It is written in regulation 97.401 what the FCC and we are supposed to do to establish an Emergency Communications Declaration.

Just because some bureaucrat wants to make his or her job easier by saying "don't come here asking us to jump through a hoop just because you have an emergency situation" in some informal issuance doesn't erase or change what is written in the regulation.

It may predict the behavior of the FCC and probably has. However, 97.401 still reads as it has for several years. The document that has been discussed was posted in August of 2004. The October issuance of the Code of Federal Regulations has no change shown to 97.401.

If the FCC wants to imply via such a convoluted issuance, that ALL emergency communications (at least those that are planned???) are to be on a seriously hampered band segment with very limited coverage capability, it is attempting to inhibit the proper and legitimate emergency operating capability of the amateur radio service.

It is not inconceivable that in some cases, emergency traffic will involve or solicit the involvement of international amateurs. Only one country, the UK, has authorization to operate in the 5 MHz segment.

This stupid directive needs to be rescinded before it is even more misconstrued and has some serious consequences in future disasters.

I'm now about 95% committed to a Petition for Rulemaking to clarify this point. And, at the same time, present some commentary into the record that will hopefully point out the woefully inadequate concept of envisioning all emergency traffic on 5 gov-spec frequencies at deminimus power levels.

73,

Lee
W6EM
 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by SWANMAN on September 12, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
And folks had to pass a code test for this?
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by WILLY on September 12, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
by W6TH on September 10, 2005

"Balls said the Queen, if I had them I would be King. "


And the King laughed because he had to. (two)

:)






 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W9WHE-II on September 13, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"Ever heard the rattle of a blower squirrel cage in the background? About 90% effective at linear identification, if the station is running REAL power"

SHEER NONSENCE.
Amps that produce REAL power (10 or more db gain) AND that do not make noise that you can hear include:

Alpha 87 & 99 (no REAL power there, eh?) Ameritron AL-80B, AL-572, AL-800H, Yaesu Quadra & Icom PW-1.


I guess my Alpha 99 is either: a) Not REAL power (you need to tell Alpha); b) or not working (you need to FEEL the power)!


W9WHE

 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W6EM on September 13, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
W9WHEEEEEE-No.2 Says, It's SHEER NONSENSE!!!!

Well, Jonathan, if you had read my post for content (like you should also read CFRs....), you would have noted that what I said applied to REAL power amps.

Of course, ambient air-cooled and the occasional muffin fan will cool most 500 to 1000W output amps, but those good ole' boys that run, say 1.5 to 5 KW amplifiers use ceramic triodes or tetrodes.

Since no US designs in that category use water cooling, the rest all use FORCED AIR, not ambient air for cooling purposes. The air is forced through the plate cooling fin matrix by a squirrel cage blower. And, they all have a characteristic roar and bearing rattle that is unmistakeable, unless, of course they're amplifying CW or Pactor or Packet modes.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but stick with paramedic lawyering.

5 to 10 dB is not much of a boost. So, after all said, the stations probably were just using speech processors and perhaps flat-topping on purpose just to be obnoxious. Kinda like your continual use of all caps to shout.......

Lee
W6EM
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by K2WH on September 13, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Lee,

There is a 4CX250(letter?)that is convection cooled, requiring no forced air. Basically it is tube that is mounted to a heat sink like a transistor. I would imagine one could build a kilowatt without any forced air cooling using this tube. Other that that, I agree.

K2WH
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by OLDFART13 on September 13, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
You can listen to 1000 pieces of message traffic go by and if you hear some QRM from 2.5kc away you cry about all the QRM and how hams are bad, stupid, ignorant, assinine hamsexy beoches. You will never have anything good to say about hams.

What is this site all about?

Hams putting other hams down!
.
.
.
We have seen the enemy, and it is us.
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W9WHE-II on September 14, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
W6EM (A professional engineer and Master of the universe) writes:

"And, they all have a characteristic roar and bearing rattle that is unmistakeable, unless, of course they're amplifying CW or Pactor or Packet modes"

Once again, my Alpha 99 does not "roar" and it has no "unmistakable" rattle. When an Alpha 87 or 99 is on the air, you CANNOT HEAR IT. The blower is inaudible on the other end.

YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T, YOU CANT.

And other owners of Alpha 99 & 87, AL-800H, AL-80B and AL-572 amps will tell you the same thing.

W9WHE




 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W6EM on September 14, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
W9WHE-No.2, Jonathan Esquire writes:
"Once again, my Alpha 99 does not "roar" and it has no "unmistakable" rattle. When an Alpha 87 or 99 is on the air, you CANNOT HEAR IT. The blower is inaudible on the other end."

OK. I cede this one. You own an Alpha with two 4CX800A7 ceramic tetrodes, cooled with forced air. Although, its specs do not say what the ambient noise level is, when powered vs. shut down, it could be that Alpha is using a "hamster-cage" blower instead of a squirrel cage. Hamsters are much, much quieter than squirrels.

The Esquirian also says:

"YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T, YOU CANT."

Not quite sure what you mean, but the caps reveal poeticly, (to me) you RANT, you RANT, you RANT.

Now, on to your last sentence:

"And other owners of Alpha 99 & 87, AL-800H, AL-80B and AL-572 amps will tell you the same thing."

I didn't bother to look at all of the remaining spec sheets, but, I do know that at least two, and possibly three use 811s or 572-Bs and are glass envelopes that are almost always ambient-air cooled. Or, might have a very small totally quiet muffin fan. No squirrel or hamster cages needed for glass-enveloped tubes, so no noise. but then again, they don't have outputs above 1.5kW either.

73's and Pluribus Pro Bono,

Lee
W6EM


 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by K4JSR on September 14, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Did I see a posting by GOATFANHF2?
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by K4JSR on September 14, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Swanman asked, "And folks had to pass a code test for this?"

No sir, just buy a computer. This *IS* the interweb,
*NOT* ham radio!
I hope you get my "DRIFT", Swanman! ;-)

I gotta get back to my rocking chair before some other contrary OF takes it!
 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by N2JLW on September 15, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
KC9DUX, Thank you for taken the word's right out of my mouth. What you heard is 100% correct and I was so disappointed to listen to experienced ham's at full power and 200% over modulated audio splattering 6 even 10 kHz away from the well-advertised frequencies to the point I couldn't hear what was being said. Under normal operation's if these guy's knew how to set up their equipment, not only would they not interfere but their station's would sound so much better. But Noo, MOST POWER They and get out and LOUDEST AUDIO they can get just to talk to someone who's talking back with 100 watt's and nice audio. Maybe I'm old school, but my Elmer's always told me to just run enough minimum power and audio to make your contact. These guy's are outta control and have no respect.

I really was disappointed with what I heard. And those of you that think that's ok or couldn't care less about the interference caused during the time it was one chance to show the public what amateur radio is all about and shine. beside's talking about your doctor's appointment and back pain and what ya had for lunch yesterday and asking can you hear me when your 60+ over S9 over modulating 10 Khz both directions you could have tuned it down a bit or gave these's net's a little elbow room so they could have done what they were trying so hard to contribute to the cause. Some people don't care and that's a shame.

And any of you guy's that bash KC9DUX for his 100% correct opinion, you must be the guilty party's. You all know who you are that acted like this. He didn't/doesn't have to point fingers. He very nicely in my opinion stated the fact's. And he echo 'd my thought's exactly as this is what was going through my mind at the time I was monitoring.

Thank's KC9DUX

Leonard J. Riley
N2JLW
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by N7LSE on September 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
ARRLFAN,
Grow up.
John
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by W9LBB on September 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
This ARRLFAN character seems to be typical of the folks
who used to inhabit CB and have now moved to the Net;
to them, the ONLY thing that counts is "How can I have
fun by pissing people off"?

Unfortunately, they're like lousy propagation... you
just have to live with it.

I just wish he'd take his sorry butt back to the Yahoo
discussion forums where his sort of trolling and post
baiting is the accepted norm.


As far as the main topic is concerned...

I began listening 24 hours or so before the storm made
it's gulf coast landfall, mostly listening to the
National Hurricane Center on 14,325 KHz. Even tho the
hams on frequency went, IMHO, above and beyond the
call of duty, there were many times that I was frankly
ashamed to hold a ham license.

If he reads this note, I especially want to "thank" Mr.
"Helllllloooo Test" who decided the hurricane net was
the proper place to tune up for a half hour at a time.

ANYBODY who does as much testing as you do really ought
to invest in a good DUMMY LOAD. I would also refer you
to the FCC regulations regarding station identification
as you seem to be woefully ignorant of said regs.

A lot of folks complain about the Code versus No Code
controversy, and up until recently I've tried hard to
steer clear of it. Suffice it to say that the kind of
childish crap I observed on the air during this whole
disaster has DEFINITELY put me in the anti-No Code
camp on this controversy.

True, there were some Old School hams who showed thier
asses in this disaster; these folks have been licensed
long enough that they should KNOW BETTER. The conduct
they displayed was reprehensible, but there are always
a few morons in every group. Talking to you brother in
law on the same frequency for the last 40 years doesn't
give you ANY rights to exclusive use of a frequency.

That having been said... it was my observation that
the WORST offenders were clearly of the No Code variety
as evidenced by stupid statements and callsigns. For
the most part these folks were not trying to assert a
proprietary "right" to the use of a specific frequency;
it was, rather, a matter of deliberate jamming just for
the sheer FUN of it.

In the case of the OTs, it was reprehensible. In the
case of the No Codes, it was INEXCUSABLE, and probably
criminal.

I've held an Extra for nearly 40 years now, and I've
listened to and participated in many disasters over the
years. This has to be the WORST example of childishness
and purely malicious on the air behavior I've ever
witnessed.

 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by K1DA on September 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I say just give the traffic nets some room.
They are about the only GOOD publicity the hobby gets
these days.
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by VE7ALQ on September 21, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
My Icom IC-706mkiiG does not require tuning, and my AT-180 fully automatic antenna tuner handles the rather high (2.5:1) VSWR into my vertical antenna. When tuning, a process that takes two seconds at worst, the IC-706mkiiG is put in low power mode, and radiates 100 milliwatts at most. I have a linear, a Yaesu FL2100z, which I rarely use, but when I do, I have the "Plate" and "Load" settings logged so that it only takes me a second or so to tune up. Again, I try to find a clear frequency a few kilohertz away. I have heard of sharply resonant antennas, but surely the loss incurred in tuning up 5 kHz away from the desired frequency is negligeble.
 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by N4PEQ on September 22, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
It amazes me how inconsiderate some ops can be. To me they're just CB'ers that passed a test.

Problem is, those that should read this won't.
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by K6TLA on September 22, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Hurricane Rita is about the strike somewhere along the Gulf Coast. Lets forget the rhetoric, pay attention to where the emergency nets are operating, stay out of the way, and get it right this time.

73.
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by AC0CW on September 22, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
How might a new ham go about finding out how to help with emergency communications? Particularly the actual procedures?

Thanks, & 73
-James
 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by AD5TD on September 22, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
AC0CW, As an Extra class, I assume (ass-U-me) that you don't mean yourself.

The best way is to find your ARRL section Assistant Emergency Coordinator. (http://www.arrl.org/sections/?sect=AL) Info at ARRL website.

Then take the "Amateur Radio Emergency Communications Course" from the ARRL. (http://www.arrl.org/cce/)
 
Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by AD5TD on September 22, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I gave the wrong title in the last post.... :-(


AC0CW, As an Extra class, I assume (ass-U-me) that you don't mean yourself.

The best way is to find your ARRL section Section Emergency Coordinator. (http://www.arrl.org/sections/?sect=AL) Info at ARRL website.

Then take the "Amateur Radio Emergency Communications Course" from the ARRL. (http://www.arrl.org/cce/)
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by AC0CW on September 22, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
LOL Actually, I do mean myself. Just licensed in August, after, oh, ten years or so of been-gonna. Thanks for the info; I'm still trying to learn, and I need all the help I can get.

73 de James
 
RE: Emergency Nets Etiquette  
by AC0CW on September 22, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Bah, by August, I really *meant* July. Thanks again.
 
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