ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
John Rippey (W3ULS)
on
September 30, 2005
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The American Radio Relay League (ARRL) advanced the cause of amateur radio on September 29 when Harold Kramer, WJ1B, ARRL's COO, appeared before the Telecommunications Subcommittee of the House Energy and Commerce Committee to describe amateur radio's role in assisting post-Katrina and Rita. Kramer did a very good job in the allotted time explaining to Chairman Fred Upton (R-MI), and Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI) how hundreds of amateurs helped out in important ways. This is money in the bank.
The episode illustrates the growing sophistication of the ARRL's Washington operation. That said, ARRL still has a long, long way to go. Let me explain.
The League needs to get off the "get us some co-sponsors" kick it has been on with the two bills it has been promoting for years. The only time numerous co-sponsors are of any value is in the case of a rare parliamentary maneuver to bypass a committee and take a bill directly to the House floor. This so-called "discharge petition" approach is extremely difficult to pull off. It requires 218 signatories on the legislation, and makes the sponsor of the legislation a pariah among House colleagues because he/she is bypassing the leadership.
In the absence of a discharge petition, randomly asking House members to co-sponsor a bill does two things. It's an easy favor to grant for a member because he/she knows the bill he/she is signing onto isn't going anywhere and at the same time the requesting ham has used up a valuable chit.
Assuming the ARRL is sincere in wishing to see its legislative initiatives enacted into law, and not used simply as fodder for member recruitment, then it needs to select a "vehicle," i.e., a bill sure to pass that is "marked up" in the Energy and Commerce Committee, and have a couple of prominent committee members ready with an amendment at the appropriate time.
For this to happen, an awful lot of spadework is required, beginning with getting support, or at least a "no objection," from the FCC and the Office of Management and Budget, among others. (Without these imprimaturs, the legislation is as dead as a doornail.)
Once the Executive Branch ducks are in a row, then amendment co-sponsors can be selected and brought on board. Finally, all members of the committee, especially the Chairman and ranking member, need to be apprised of what's coming. A head count must be taken prior to any vote to make sure the votes are there. If they aren't, then it's back to the drawing board. I've seen this process take months, years and, yes, even decades.
It's not clear to me whether at bottom the ARRL is up to the hard work required for legislative success in Washington. As WJ1B showed, it is building good will, but that can take you only so far.
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by X-WB1AUW on October 1, 2005
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Nice prose John.
Is there a point, other than you not being sure if <the ARRL is up to the hard work required for legislative success in Washington.>
Bob
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by WR8D on October 1, 2005
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Extremely obvious to me that looking back on the last 23 years of my personal amateur experiance the arrl does not represent us. Thats why i am no longer a member and will never be one in the remainder of my life time. They are interested in what ever it takes to increase the membership at the expense of our service/hobby. My 2 cents: 73 John WR8D:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by N3HKN on October 1, 2005
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ARRL is the only representation we have. Sitting in a dark room (metaphor) and grousing about them does nothing for Ham Radio. Tell them of your SPECIFIC points. If you think that cancelling a subscription is an effective protest then you will only erode the only representative we have.
Dick N3HKN
Congressional procedures are based upon those of Parliament.
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by NA4IT on October 1, 2005
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If the ARRL would get back to the "business" of promoting amateur radio and what it does to John Q. Public, then they would never have to lobby congress ever again, because the value of amateur radio would already be known and the threats to us would not be there.
That said, every amateur radio operator also has a responsibility to promote amateur radio in a positive light. Even if one does not agree that amateur radio should be used as an emergency communications tool, at the very least, that one should promote amateur radio as a great hobby and learning experience. Many "young" folks who started with amateur radio in their early years now have good paying jobs because they learned many of the basics (and some of the advanced stuff) by becoming an amateur radio operator.
Glad to see ARRL have it's time with the legislature, but, I still believe that many government emergency managers, from FEMA all the way down to the local levels will not see amateur radio as the National Emergency Communications System they want. They have become too used to throwing tax dollars at technology to try to get the answer. They just cannot grasp the fact that hundreds of volunteers across America willing to furnish their own equipment would love the opportunity to serve their fellow man for free. And some of those are willing to come from other states if needed. My hat is off to all those who have and are serving in the Gulf and Texas areas.
Just my take, and you don't have to agree with it. And yes I am an ARRL member, a county EC, net manager, and activiely participate in amateur radio as a hobby, learning tool, and emergency communications service, and enjoy all three, so I have a right to my opinion.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by AA4PB on October 1, 2005
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the arrl does not represent us
------------------------------
The ARRL DOES represent me. I'll be a member for the rest of my life so I guess we cancel each other out :-)
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by AA4PB on October 1, 2005
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Hams have always had to get past the "they're amateurs and we're professionals" attitude in the government and other places. It started in the beginning when the professionals wanted the amateurs restricted to the "useless" frequencies below 200 meters. I saw the attitude expressed by a few in the Navy regarding MARS in the 60's. That attitude begins to run into trouble when they realize that there are professionals working beside them (and sometimes senior to them) who are also hams. When the chips are down they always seem to turn to ham radio though.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by ARRLFAN on October 1, 2005
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NA4IT
The problem with the ARRL lobbying congress is that they will spend 100’s of 1000’s of dollars wining and dining congressmen with no results.
Heres the problem… ARRL needs to be working with local government and not federal. Emergencies are local government problems – by the time the federal government comes in they are bringing vast sophisticated comms systems in with them and at that time hams are usually asked to “get out of the way”…
I‘m not sure what the purpose of ARRL wining and dining congressmen in WASH DC is except to go out and have fun on my dime ...
before anyone flames me about how great and successful the ARRL is in lobbying -- just give me one excample of where the ARRL working in WASH DC with federal authorities has been succesful!!!
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by ARRLFAN on October 1, 2005
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AA4PB
"When the chips are down they always seem to turn to ham radio though."
Oh great we are starting the Urban Myth again -- when everything else is down ham radio get through !!!!
Please stop that -- it makes us all look stupid...
but hey I will play your silly game --
give me one example where the federal government has turned to ham radio to get through when they couldn't!!
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by K2ROK on October 1, 2005
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The only way things get done in Washington, your state capitol, town hall -- after the polls are closed and you hopefully voted -- is like this. Way to go ham radio operators for their hard work and dedication in the Katrina-Rita areas, and way to go ARRL for your work in Congress. I think the ARRL has to do this type of thing, and this certainly does represent Amateur Radio. We are not self-regulating, but Federally regulated, and with that in mind, we need the ears of those who make the decisions. That is what the ARRL does for us.
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by WZ5PM on October 1, 2005
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We are simply in a different world now then what we have known in the past. The FCC has turned into a rubber stamp for business interests, and no longer protects the public airways---but rather auctions them off at will. Its unfair to blame ham radio or the ARRL for the changes in the FCC. It is a political problem now, not a technical issue.
I have seen both AOPA and the EAA learn how to politically deal with the FAA. Sport Pilot took a huge effort to push through. Our interests are no different. I am just grateful to the ARRL that they are now locked onto the fact that they need congress to help move us forward.
If your not an ARRL member, consider joining. The ARRL works hard with the resources they have available to them. The League is not perfect and never will be---that is not an excuse to blow off supporting their efforts.
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by W6TH on October 1, 2005
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.
------------------Parliament---------------------
The national legislature of various countries, especially that of the United Kingdom, made up of the House of Lords and the House of Commons.
------------------------------------------------
Parliament = Revolution.
.:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by AA4PB on October 1, 2005
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ARRLFAN: Yes, you are correct. The Federal Government instantly provided communications for the entire gulf coast and the hams were not needed at all. The world has no need for hams and there is no need for the ARRL. There, does that make you feel better?
By the way, do you use ARRLFAN on the air - or perhaps you don't even have a license.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 1, 2005
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.
----------Several Reasons to Support the ARRL----------
Lowered the 13 and the 20 wpm to 5 wpm.
Now there is no code wpm for many.
Lowered the code and theory test for 7 year olds to pass.
You can support the ARRL by buying their magazines, get plenty of ads of many companies selling their products, at a very low cost.
For a free ride, no code, no tests, support the ARRL.
--------------------ARRL MOTO----------------------
Give us the business and we will give you the business.
.:
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by AA4PB on October 1, 2005
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The typical ARRL bashing. Like the ARRL is in control of the FCC and all the other countries in the world who have eliminated the code requirement.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KG6AMW on October 1, 2005
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Can you imagine these anti ARRL idiots in front of the telecommunications committee giving stumbling opinionated dingbat testimony. Compare this to the current set up where you have outstanding ARRL staff along with appropriate Washington DC counsel who will answer the questions and when necessary give more in-depth information. I’ve given testimony before committees, you losers would be a total embarrassment.
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by WA1RNE on October 1, 2005
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KG6AMW barked:
"I've given testimony before committees, you losers would be a total embarrassment."
Losers?? For someone who has testified before "committees", it doesn't seem you have the politesse to do so effectively.
BTW, the PTA and the local Repeater Association don't count and are not in the same league....
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by AA4PB on October 1, 2005
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Lets send ARRLFAN before Congress. I'm sure he can give them all the "real" information. I just hope they don't ask him for his call sign :-)
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by THERAGE on October 1, 2005
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ARRLFAN are you KA1KSO? Seeing that you only have 33 lookups in QRZ, I thought I'd help you out. :)
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by THERAGE on October 1, 2005
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress Reply
by ARRLFAN on October 1, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
THERAGE --
<You know who I am ..
I'm yo' daddy!!>
Or maybe you're KB5LBL. Hmmmmmm.
What do you think gents? Is he from MA or TX?
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by WA6BFH on October 1, 2005
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Ok, how about this for hopefully CONSTRUCTIVE criticism of the ARRL.
I don’t believe that they really understand Ham radio on a sufficiently broad perspective. They understand and relate to various activities such as contesting, but they don’t do nearly as well when the topic is of the broader aspects of Ham radio. In accordance with the author of this post, it appears that they do not understand the best legislative approach either!
Perhaps they would do better to employ a psychologist to consult to Chris Imlay. This person could explain the various profiles of Ham radio operators that are in effect “individualist geeks”. When you have such a diverse group that are largely left-brained personalities that only care about only their own little nitch activity, it is going to be difficult to rally the troops toward any legislative or political issue.
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by KG4RUL on October 1, 2005
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TO ARRLFAN:
I can always count on you to show up with your witty repartee. You are as reliable as finding Dog crap on your shoes after a walk in the park. Thanks for your continuing public service.
Dennis KG4RUL
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by W6TH on October 1, 2005
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.
TO ARRLFAN:
Keep the pot boiling. We need both pro and con and that is what makes the world go round.
Usted consigui� tripa.
.:
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by W5HTW on October 1, 2005
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The new key word is "Interoperatility." Public Safety agencies haven't had it, still don't. But it is coming, thanks largely to Katrina and Rita. These storms clearly defined the need. And though it may include ham radio, new configurations for Dod, FEMA, National Guard, and local EOCs, are moving rapidly in that direction.
At this moment, as the Albuquerque Balloon Festival kicks off, the NM National Guard is sitting in a van with not only generators and erected antennas, but high quality DC to daylight communications. They have multiple backup HF sideband and data systems, and the antennas to make them work. However, what thay also have is a very sophisticated control system that links ALL radios in the van, from VHF, UHF, and HF, Public Safety, amateur (there are no ham radios involved but some of the radios will operate in the ham bands if needed) together to a single master control. With it, they can repeat PS to HF, HF to UHF, UHF to anywhere, and one operator can do it all.
This is the wave of the very near future. Our EOC is building a similar van, and again, though there will be some ham radios installed, they will be controlable by a central system that basically links to "everything." We, too, will have non-ham HF, VHF, UHF, cross-service repeaters, data links, and other means of interfacing communications from other counties and/or states, to our own local ones. All from a portable location, with a portable Public Safety repeater, (Maybe three of them) and even links to trunked 800 mhz systems. Coupled with a towed 15KW generator, these vans can go anywhere there are roads. Add in a Public Safety portable repeater that can be installed in a 4WD vehicle, and we can go off road.
Inside the vans also are hand-out Motorola VHF HTs, plugs PS mobile units with mag mount antennas and alligator clip power leads that can attach directly to the batteries of vehicles. There are also hand-out dual band ham radios, preprogrammed on area repeaters, along with mag mount antennas.
There are also FRS radios, with chargers, and adapters for a cigarette lighter. I think at the moment we probably have ten of them, but will have a lot more as the new "funding season" gets under way.
Interoperability is going to put ham radio in the back seat of emergency communications. Our van, currently in the funding and construction stages, when completed, can be activated by the Emergency Manager or by me, in a matter of a half hour! And we are seeking funding for three of these things! One is already under construction.
High speed data, secure voice, facsimilie and RTTY, extreme portability, coverage of anything, including, even AM aviation channels, makes this kind of near-instant response van the forefront of Homeland Security as well as things like flood, earthquakes, and more.
And WE are a RURAL county, with NO population centers! Imagine what can be done in Denver or Orlando or Sacremento!
The ham with his vest, helmet, light bars, and belt full of handhelds, is being obsoleted as we speak. Actually, he has been for a couple of decades, as local and regional governments began to play 'catchup' in the portable, quick response, fully backed up, communications field.
There was a time when hams had what the local agencies did not. Even a VHF mobile was a rarity, and the agencies had no one who could operate a "real radio." And virtually NO agency had HF capabilities. Very few had good repeaters, few had battery or generator backups. Agencies were understaffed, and often had only one useable radio channel. Now they have a dozen channels, several repeaters, and they can quickly make anyone, including even a county road crew driver, into an emergency operator. They have fax, data, and voice capabilities.
They've come a long ways, Baby. Right now they have a long ways to go, but the vans as described above are going to put the hams way behind, simply because of money. These vans and trailers don't even resemble cheap. And the funding is getting shaken loose, thanks to Katrina. No one wants a repeat of that. So government emergency operations are quietly and rapidly growing, as we sit here on eHam and talk about how important we are.
Ed
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by K0RFD on October 1, 2005
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ARRLFAN wrote:
>The problem with the ARRL lobbying congress is that
>they will spend 100’s of 1000’s of dollars wining and
>dining congressmen with no results.
No, the REAL problem is the ARRL's 501(c)(3) status.
They CAN'T lobby. That's why being invited to testify was a home run.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by ARRLFAN on October 1, 2005
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Unfortunately your definition of a home run is different then mine ...
if you go to www.fcc.gov ...
and look at the Written Statement of Kenneth P. Moran Director, Office of Homeland Security, Enforcement Bureau, Federal Communications Commission, Hearing on Hurricane Katrina and Communications Interoperability --
he goes into 23 pages of what worked and what didn't and NOT one single mention of amateur radio -- at all --
guess he must have missed that lecture in school where many of you were brainwashed that we were a viable service ...
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 1, 2005
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.
Ok, now lets get to a serious point:
I have been around ham radio much longer than I have ever dreamed of and as for the ARRL; well all I can honestly say or mention is the fact that since 1946, there was nothing of gain for ham radio. We have been cheapened, lowered in public estimation and degraded.
Any and all actions were to exploit, manipulate, to tamper, falsify for personal gain, the ham fraternity.
As an example: QST of today can never compare with the QST of years gone by.
Ham radio at one time put a world of knowledge in your hand. What is it like now, what has it to now offer?
Yes, ham radio is in need of representation, but not what we have as of today.
.:
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by WW5AA on October 1, 2005
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W5HTW wrote:
“The ham with his vest, helmet, light bars, and belt full of handhelds, is being obsoleted as we speak. Actually, he has been for a couple of decades, as local and regional governments began to play 'catchup' in the portable, quick response, fully backed up, communications field.”
Let me see, hummm, how did this work during Katrina and Rita?
De Lindy, Gulf Coast ARES Net Control, 7285 KHz, 1600-1800 CDT
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by W6TH on October 1, 2005
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.
WW5AA
Yes, amateur radio will still play a very important part for the future.
Anything the federal Government attemts, turns out messy. in very much need of outside help. You can see how well prepared the military was with Katrina. All that was done was to invade the privacy of citizens and take their weapons away and using force to abandom their homes.
We have a militia of millions, yet never been of any use until a mishap. Pretty sad to have two ex-presidents begging for money, because the lack of money with the Feds spending spree.
Liberte pour tous.
.:
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by KB4QAA on October 1, 2005
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<I have been around ham radio much longer than I have <ever dreamed of and as for the ARRL; well all I can <honestly say or mention is the fact that since 1946, <there was nothing of gain for ham radio.
Yep, nothing done. Like:
- Eliminate mandatory logging
- Eliminate prior written notification for portable ops
- Reciprocal international licensing
- Eliminate restrictions on digital coding limiting us to Baudot or Morse, allowing the use of ASCII and others that make Packet, AMTOR, PSK31, MMTY, WinLink possible at all
- PRB-1 zoning relief
- Local VE testing so people don't have to travel hundreds of miles overnight to FCC offices
- Amateur Satellites
- Instant Temporary Callsign permits for license upgrades instead of waiting 4 1/2 months like I did in 1979
- Vanity Callsigns
- Keeping municipalities and states from restricting uses of multi-band radios in vehicles under guise of law enforcement security
- Getting new WARC bands authorized(30, 17, 12 Meters)
**If ARRL wrote one letter, made one phone call, or talked to one government official for any item then they helped make ham radio better.
<We have been cheapened, lowered in public estimation <and degraded.
- The public knows little and cares less about amateur radio. They know nothing of the internal squabbles that give so many on this board a reason to feel important and smug.
- Let's go back to having 50,000 amateurs circa 1941-1945. A nice tight little fraternity. Only 100 per state. Then see what kind of radios you could buy...None. And see how you could justify having the spectrum assigned.
<Any and all actions were to exploit, manipulate, to <tamper, falsify for personal gain, the ham <fraternity.
- Did you run for office? Volunteer for committees. Do anything to improve the organisation?
<As an example: QST of today can never compare with <the QST of years gone by.
-Wrong. The QST of today is worlds better than is was 10, 25 years ago. For ages it held the vain and pompous notion that it was a technical journal. The first two articles in every issue were so dense and complex that few amateurs could truly understand them and almost no one could build. Show pieces only.
Now we have articles with practical projects and lots of how-to and electronic fundamentals.
<Ham radio at one time put a world of knowledge in <your hand. What is it like now, what has it to now <offer?
Geography, Math, Physics, Meterology, Computers operations, Computer networking, Electronics, Parts & Assembly Fabrication, Making local, national and international friends.... Same old stuff as 90 years ago but with new things: Nothing, right?
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by KG6AMW on October 1, 2005
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WA1RNE, Quote, "Losers?? For someone who has testified before "committees", it doesn't seem you have the politesse to do so effectively." Not at all, I just don't suffer fools and unfortunately on eham there seems to be a fair number of them who grouse continually about the ARRL. Be glad they’re relegated to the sidelines.
KG6AMW
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by WW5AA on October 1, 2005
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W6TH
Yes, and of coarse the National Guard and Fema will do a wonderful job of relaying health/welfare traffic!
We can then wrap ourseves totally into this wonderful cradle to grave utopia. Didn't some Russian say that many years ago?
de Lindy
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 1, 2005
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"If the ARRL would get back to the "business" of promoting amateur radio and what it does to John Q. Public, then they would never have to lobby congress ever again"
------------
But wait a minute... doesn't the idea of lobbying congress promote amateur radio to John Q public too?
I think ARRL needs to establish their presence in government circles if they wish to be effective and successful in future activities like lifting restrictions on antennas, spectrum protection and BPL to name a few.
It seems ARRL is more than just a monthly publication in your mailbox if you ask me.
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by K4JF on October 1, 2005
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<groups.yahoo.com/group/hamsexy>
Absolutely irrelevant - to this thread or anything pertaining to Amateur Radio.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K4JF on October 1, 2005
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<"When the chips are down they always seem to turn to ham radio though."
Oh great we are starting the Urban Myth again -- when everything else is down ham radio get through !!!!>
How, after the last few weeks, can anyone believe that is any kind of myth? After all the instances of ham radio getting through when nothing else did.
"There are none so blind as those who refuse to see."
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by AB0RE on October 1, 2005
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"<groups.yahoo.com/group/hamsexy>
Absolutely irrelevant - to this thread or anything pertaining to Amateur Radio. "
... and a whopping 12 posts all year long.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by ARRLFAN on October 1, 2005
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N4JF
"How, after the last few weeks, can anyone believe that is any kind of myth? After all the instances of ham radio getting through when nothing else did."
OK -- Give me ONE example where RED CROSS, or SATERN or SATCOM, or Cell, or govt/commercial VHF/UHF was down and ham radio was the only thing working!
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by THERAGE on October 1, 2005
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It seems to me that eHam should pull the plug on Tommy (aka ARRLFAN/KB5LBL), or who ever this anal individual is that portrays a hierarch to ham radio. GAWD!!
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KB4QAA on October 1, 2005
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This is a great site, but apparently the moderators would rather generate more advertising traffic by allowing trolls and lots of flaming.
;)
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 1, 2005
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OK -- Give me ONE example where RED CROSS, or SATERN or SATCOM, or Cell, or govt/commercial VHF/UHF was down and ham radio was the only thing working!
-----
uh.. your kidding right?
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K4JF on October 1, 2005
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<OK -- Give me ONE example where RED CROSS, or SATERN or SATCOM, or Cell, or govt/commercial VHF/UHF was down and ham radio was the only thing working!>
I'm not going through the long, long list, but check your facts. SATERN IS ham radio, and so is most of Red Cross communications. (So you are saying show you an instance where ham radio was out and ham radio was the only thing working... yeah, sure.) There were many instances (I monitored them) when the only thing coming out of some counties in Mississippi was low power HF CW! (Remember, Mississippi was hit much harder than New Orleans.) There are hundreds of hams working in the region, and for a long time they were the only communications for Red Cross between shelters, etc. Still so in some instances. I won't give one, you can look up hundreds.
Cellphone? Those toys were out the longest. Still out in many areas. I'm getting tired of the BS that cellphones are of any value in a disaster scenario. They aren't reliable in the best of times, but they are extremely infrastructure dependent, so they go out quickly. They are also single point devices when they DO work.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K4JF on October 1, 2005
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<"<groups.yahoo.com/group/hamsexy>
Absolutely irrelevant - to this thread or anything pertaining to Amateur Radio. "
... and a whopping 12 posts all year long.>
And that means?
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by G3SEA on October 1, 2005
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The ARRL ( or RSGB ) could not exist without the Hobby so it's logical these organizations would do everything in their power to promote and support the hobby for their very existence. :)
KH6/G3SEA
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 1, 2005
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.
- Getting new WARC bands authorized(30, 17, 12 Meters)
How little you know that the WARC bands were the ARRL's idea so that the other bands could be used for contesting and the dx awards. These bands were for the ARRL's good and not for the whole of ham radio.
The ARRL mentioned that if too crowded on the regular bands during a contest that it would be advisable to make use of the WARC bands.
What a nice thoughtful suggestion.
.:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by AB0WR on October 1, 2005
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w5htw:
"They've come a long ways, Baby. Right now they have a long ways to go, but the vans as described above are going to put the hams way behind, simply because of money. These vans and trailers don't even resemble cheap. And the funding is getting shaken loose, thanks to Katrina. No one wants a repeat of that. So government emergency operations are quietly and rapidly growing, as we sit here on eHam and talk about how important we are."
Before you start making love to your van and trailer let me point out some realities.
1. We have had two tornadoes go through close to where I live in the last two decades. In both of them the first person on the ground was a ham. It was the ham that notified the NWS of the tornado, did the initial damage assessement, and did the location report. This was all in the ten minutes it took sheriff deputies to arrive at the site (of course it only took them 10 minutes because the ham had already provided the site and they didn't have to search for the location).
2. In Mississippi and New Orleans your van would have been 100-200 miles from the actual site of the disaster. Unless the van is designed to be airlifted in by helicopter (doubtful), it would have been pretty useless for the first 48 hours, BECAUSE IT COULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN INTO THE AREA. The hams ON-SITE, however, would have already been providing emergency communications to the disaster area.
The local ARES crew here worked with the police and firefighters to put a van like this together almost 5 years ago. Guess what? It didn't help much when the tornados hit.
So you can denigrate the Amateur Radio Service all you want and say how it is going to be supplanted by all these advanced communication vans, but the truth is that these vans will only play a role - they will be a part of a team. And that team will continue to depend upon amateur radio for lots of things and lots of disaster sites.
Learn it, love it, live it. It's reality.
tim ab0wr
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 1, 2005
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.
I think ARRL needs to establish their presence in government circles if they wish to be effective and successful in future activities like lifting restrictions on antennas, spectrum protection and BPL to name a few.
------------------------------------------------------ The ARRL is nothing more than a magazine Publishing Company, nothing more.
The ARRL has done none of the above (lifting restrictions on antennas, spectrum protection and BPL to name a few.)
The ARRL does get involved and nothing more, so do we hams, nothing more.
The ARRL does as much for ham radio as hams do for themselves.
.:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by WA6BFH on October 1, 2005
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Charles, PRB-1 is a joke. The Vice-Director out here quit as a result of that messed up work. Gee, or was it because of the issue of addressing the (then POTENTIAL) loss of 2 MHz of the 135 centimeter spectrum? Gee I forget, they did such a good job with both -- not withstanding the other points I have raised in the past!
I like you dude, but, get real!
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KB4QAA on October 1, 2005
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<How little you know that the WARC bands were the <ARRL's idea so that the other bands could be used <for contesting and the dx awards. These bands were <for the ARRL's good and not for the whole of ham <radio.
<The ARRL mentioned that if too crowded on the <regular bands during a contest that it would be <advisable to make use of the WARC bands.
- I know, more bands are bad
- Please turn in your unused spectrum. And, I don't EVER want to hear you bitch about contesters.
"PRB-1, BETTER THAN NOTHING"
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 1, 2005
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.
ARRLFAN
OK -- Give me ONE example where RED CROSS, or SATERN or SATCOM, or Cell, or govt/commercial VHF/UHF was down and ham radio was the only thing working!
------------------------------------------------
You were probably listening to the 2 meter band and have no idea what was really going on, on the other ham bands.
Don't let the 5 wpm or the easily taught theory hold you back ARRLFAN, why not upgrade to the real ham bands?
With all the restrictions the Feds induced, as to a course of action, by persuasion, the hams did one great job, one of all should be very proud of.
As usual the Feds always have to control and force, but the hams came through in great shape.
Hams are like our past minute men, with one difference, they grab their radios in place of their rifles.
There will always be ham radio, with or without the ARRL.
.:
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K0RFD on October 1, 2005
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I'm a little distressed by several posts to this thread, on BOTH sides of the issue. It seems that some people are either lamenting or rejoicing in the fact that a change in emphasis by the government might mean that Hams are called upon less in future disasters.
I may be a little out of the ordinary with this thought, but NOTHING WOULD MAKE ME HAPPIER than to never be needed in another emergency. Because if that's the case, either the emergencies are less bad, or the government has finally given first responders the tools they need. Either way, it's a good thing.
We'll still be here if anybody needs us, but God Forbid they should need us. When we're needed, it means that something very bad has happened somewhere. It would be much better for all concerned if they never need us again.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 1, 2005
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"The ARRL has done none of the above (lifting restrictions on antennas, spectrum protection and BPL to name a few.)"
...uh can anyone say PRB 1 ?
"The ARRL does get involved and nothing more, so do we hams, nothing more."
The period of years 1914 - 2005 would seem to have at least 1 or 2 examples of ham related ARRL activities I could post don't you think?
"The ARRL does as much for ham radio as hams do for themselves."
...I take it that this seems to suggest that hams are equally powerful in terms of a single entity when compared to the idea that hams would be better represented in a more powerful and louder voice by sheer membership numbers?
Question:
Do you feel 30,000 ARRL volunteers throughout the country do nothing for the benefit of amateur radio?
...How so?
ARRL members provide thousands of volunteer hours for communities and organizations requesting aid in emergency communications planning and disasters.
The ARRL represents US radio amateurs in legislative matters.
The ARRL also represents US amateurs with the Federal Communications Commission and other government agencies in the US and abroad.
The ARRL is the International Secretariat for the International Amateur Radio Union, which is made up of similar societies in 150 countries around the world.
The ARRL promotes interest in Amateur Radio communications and experimentation.
The ARRL sponsors and coordinates classes in licensing, radio communications, electronic
technology and related topics both nationally and internationally.
Did you know...
1935 - ARRL developed what is now called the Amateur Radio Emergency Service (ARES)
1949 - ARRL created what is now known as the National Traffic System (NTS)
The VC Program was later developed to provide a means of tracking and, when necessary, opposing local ordinances and statutes that might have a detrimental effect on the Amateur Radio Service.
VCEs provide engineering assistance to amateurs who may need to meet structural requirements set forth by local zoning authorities.
For more than 50 years the League has sponsored the Official Observer program to help amateurs help each other.
..and these are just a few minor examples from the boatload of examples I could pull from.
Shall I go on?
73
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 1, 2005
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KB4QAA
- I know, more bands are bad
- Please turn in your unused spectrum. And, I don't EVER want to hear you bitch about contesters.
--------------------------------------------
I re-read my post and see no complaint of the contesters.
Just mentioned a fact of occurance.
I believe that people should do what is free for them to do and be responsible, involving personal accountability or ability to act without guidance or superior authority for their own actions, again be responsible for their own actions.
Please by all means re-read my post and you will notice that I have not complained as you suggested.
Live free young man.
.:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 1, 2005
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Charles, PRB-1 is a joke. The Vice-Director out here quit as a result of that messed up work. Gee, or was it because of the issue of addressing the (then POTENTIAL) loss of 2 MHz of the 135 centimeter spectrum? Gee I forget, they did such a good job with both -- not withstanding the other points I have raised in the past!
----
The point is that what the Vice Director was doing was a positive step in the right direction.
Let me clear, the ARRL is NOT going to win each and every battle. I wonder what would have happened to the 135 centimeter spectrum without any battle at all? Would we have lost 2 mhz or the entire spectrum? See the point?
The fact that we lose any spectrum is a bad thing but one must consider ARRL's damage control of the situation that spared a great deal of spectrum that we probably would have otherwise lost!
Regardless if they are actually 100% successful in every instance is NOT the accurate measuring gauge as to the effectiveness of the ARRL.
The fact is and remains, they the ARRL is doing the job as opposed to doing nothing at all.
I agree that PRB-1 isn't exactly the perfect piece of amateur radio related legislation we had all hoped for. However, it would seem that we need to start somewhere - and PRB 1 is that step in the right direction.
These things are going to take time and nothing in government legislation happens overnight. The idea that ARRL is lobbying in congress is a small step toward meeting the overall objectives and agendas of hams including revising such things as PRB 1.
What the ARRL is doing is taking it one step at at time. Eventually if one takes enough small steps toward a common goal, then it's success in the more global scope is eventually realized.
Keep in mind that sometimes those success's are not always completed in every way the ARRL originally intended. This is often a result of how government works and not always the original intentions of ARRL.
Does this mean they failed in meeting their objectives and goals? ...No, it does not.
The problem here is that I think too many people out there are translating and thinking that the ARRL has failed them, when the ARRL have not met their 100% performance expectations in every instance.
Best 73
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by ARRLFAN on October 1, 2005
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W6TH
I see that you have a propensity to ramble on and on yet say nothing..
I simply asked you one simple thing -- show me one concrete fact where all comms were down and ham radio "saved the day" ..
and all you do is answer with babble...
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 1, 2005
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.
KC8VWM
Do you feel 30,000 ARRL volunteers throughout the country do nothing for the benefit of amateur radio?
-------------------------------------
Wow, you said a mouthful, but neglected to mention the dumbing down of ham radio by 30,000 members.
Was this doing a Home Run for the ARRL?
I can see that you are the type that feels the ARRL are never wrong, the ARRL is always right to the extent that dumbing down ham radio was the right thing to do, just because the ARRL told its members it was the right thing to do; or did the members be informed that this occurance was being sought by the ARRL?
You mentioned 1914, I can almost go back that far, but to be in all honesty, just how far back into ham radio can you really go back? No pun meant, but being a Technician, just how far back can you recall all of the past events?
Thanks for your assumption, the act of taking possession or asserting a claim, which you know little of.
.:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K4JF on October 1, 2005
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<I may be a little out of the ordinary with this thought, but NOTHING WOULD MAKE ME HAPPIER than to never be needed in another emergency. Because if that's the case, either the emergencies are less bad, or the government has finally given first responders the tools they need. Either way, it's a good thing.
We'll still be here if anybody needs us, but God Forbid they should need us. When we're needed, it means that something very bad has happened somewhere. It would be much better for all concerned if they never need us again. >
As one who has been in some of those, I agree. However: you project an ideal world, which will never come to pass. We should still stay trained and ready (those of us who choose to do so, it is not required) because, as it says on my grandson's bib: "SPIT HAPPENS!!"
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 1, 2005
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.
ARRLFAN
I simply asked you one simple thing -- show me one concrete fact where all comms were down and ham radio "saved the day"
----------------------------------------
Nothing or any one event can be saved in one day. The fact is where there were volunteers ready and willing to support the action. This is where ham radio operators performed well, even to moving supplies that had nothing to do with communications.
The hams were there ready and willing even with the Feds restrictions, the message got through.
Give credit where credit is due, with no rewards or expectations.
.:
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KB7LYM on October 1, 2005
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I was amazed reading about this Home Run in Congress.
AT THE GAMES..... ARRL versus Congress
2.5 million watching.
Congress made the first Home Run 45 minutes after the Game was over.
ARRL still looking for the ball 3 days later
Note: If you think that Congress or the ARRL will help you, you should be put in a soft bed,take some cookies and a glass of warm milks so you can't hurt yourself
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 1, 2005
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"Wow, you said a mouthful, but neglected to mention the dumbing down of ham radio by 30,000 members."
----------
Gee, does that mean to suggest that W6TH is an ARRL member too?
???
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by WA9PIE on October 1, 2005
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Regardless of how you feel about the ARRL, please write your congressman and insist that they support HR 3876 (the bill that provides PRB-1 protection for CC&Rs).
73 de Mike, WA9PIE
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 1, 2005
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but being a Technician, just how far back can you recall all of the past events?
------
You think my current and more recent Techician status in the United States is somehow an indication of my past background in radio communications?
Man, you are uninformed aren't you. How small minded you are.
For example, Did you know that I recently moved to the US from Canada and acquired an FCC license and I actually know CW and I can run circles around some extra's?
Simply put, You know nothing about me and you would be best advised to become more informed of the facts at hand before making your judgemental assumptions.
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KILOWATT on October 1, 2005
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The only detriment that I can see to Ham Radio is Ham Operators themselves.
Look at just about any thread posted here to Eham.net and you will see nothing but bitching, moaning and in-fighting. CW and Phone operators at one another's throats. It's truly sad.
There was a time when we were a fraternity that stuck together no matter what but those days are long gone. If you were to judge us by the posts here at this site; we all hate one another with a passion and our hobby has become so obsolete that it is of no value to anyone.
I'm a cw operator and personally, don't give a flip what the ARRL/FCC do to increase our ranks. I don't care what value we are to the public. All I know is that we all need to get our shit together and start hanging tight with one another...whether we like each other or not....lest we lose what we have.
Kilowatt
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 1, 2005
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I probobly built more radios than you have ever operated.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 2, 2005
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.
THERE IS AN OLD SAYING, "A PAT ON THE BACK IS ONLY 18 INCHES AWAY FROM A KICK IN THE ASS". YET SOME PEOPLE CAN'T FIND IT IN THEMSELVES TO ACKNOWLEDGE TALENT.
SEE YA LATER AMIGO.
.:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KILOWATT on October 2, 2005
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>I probobly built more radios than you have ever operated.
KC8VWM<
This is what I'm talking about!
Who gives a damn how many radios you've built when it comes to the survival of our hobby? Everyone has to get the last damned word in and thus leads to just more bickering.
The one thing that everyone needs to learn about the internet is that no one is EVER wrong. Of course they're all also good looking and total bad-asses.
I'll guarantee you that if 99% of us here on Eham.net could meet in person, we would all get along just fine. Hell.....we would mostly like one another! Anonymity and distance tends to turn people into jerks.
What happened to that fraternity of ham operators? Has the advent of the twenty-first century sounded our death noll? Just exactly where does all of the hatred and divisiveness come from? Someone explain it to me.
Kilowatt
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by N0IU on October 2, 2005
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We need to forget about this silly notion that, "When all else fails, ham radio gets through."
If there is a catastrophe of the magnitude that ALL ELSE HAS FAILED leaving only amateur radio as the sole means of communications, may God have mercy on all of our souls. This would mean that all commercial communication lines, wired and wireless, have been rendered useless. This means that the communications capabilities of every branch of the military have been rendered useless. If something of this magnitude ever happens, ham radio won't do any good because there probably won't be anyone on the other end to talk to!
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What a waste:
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by WR8D on October 2, 2005
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Kilowatt, i have no idea. It seems if you don't agree with the 30.000 arrl fans then you're a bottom feeder. Last time i looked there were a few hundred thousand of us that did not agree with them so i must bring up the point if the arrl has done such a fantastic job then why are most of us no longer members and more dropping membership everyday. Everyone does'nt see things the same way but you're called an idiot and worse if you don't support this group. Years ago i belonged to arrl then issues started coming up that i did not agree with. I voiced my opinions and thoughts to "deaf" ears. I went through the proper channels and all that with out a word being returned. Or being fast talked and fed a bunch of shit. I guess its obvious by the numbers ratio of members verses nonmembers many others feel the same as i do. I don't call them names like a child though when i don't agree with them. Who needs them? I sure as hell don't. 73 John WR8D
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W1RFI on October 2, 2005
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>> the arrl does not represent us
> The ARRL DOES represent me. I'll be a member for the
> rest of my life so I guess we cancel each other
> out :-)
And the ARRL represents me most of the time. I will be a member as long as I feel that overall, they are doing things that need my support to happen. I do not expect perfection and I understand that the League will do the best its volunteers and staff can with the amount of resources amateur radio chooses to give them.
I find it ironic that those that withhold the resources needed are the often the ones that complain the most bitterly that ARRL is not doing what it should be doing.
Ed Hare, W1RFI
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W1RFI on October 2, 2005
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> I can see that you are the type that feels the ARRL
> are never wrong, the ARRL is always right to the
> extent that dumbing down ham radio was the right
> thing to do, just because the ARRL told its members
> it was the right thing to do; or did the members be
> informed that this occurance was being sought by the
> ARRL?
When I entered ham radio in 63, I got my Novice by studying three and a half pages of study material. Today, hams entering ham radio have study guides that are at least 100 pages long. There rae more correct answers in the question pool than there were sentences in those three and a half pages that I memorized to get my license.
How is it that all this dumbing down has made things so much harder? Those three and a half pages had no questions about antennas, feed lines or propagation. Today, the RF safety questions in the Tech pool require knowledges of how EM fields behave in the near-field of an antenna. When I post a simple question on that subject, most old timers get it wrong.
ARRL's present proposal for a "new Novice" license is looking to take us halfway back to the successful Novice license of the 60s and 70s. Although it doesn't appear that the FCC wants to go along with it, I think that having a reasonable first step for licensing is good for the future of ham radio.
Ed Hare, W1RFI
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THANK YOU ARRL!!!
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by W8KQE on October 2, 2005
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I appreciate and applaud all the ARRL has done over the years on behalf of and for Amateur Radio. Yes, it is not a perfect organization, but what is? They are all we have. Those sorry fractious anti-ARRL losers that bitch and moan incessantly, obviously have nothing constructive to add to the mix. Perhaps they belong to some 'mystery organization' that does a better job than the ARRL? NOT!
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RE: What a waste:
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by K4JF on October 2, 2005
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<What happened to that fraternity of ham operators? Has the advent of the twenty-first century sounded our death noll? Just exactly where does all of the hatred and divisiveness come from? Someone explain it to me.
Kilowatt >
KW, I don't think it had anything to do with the numbers changing on the calendar, that is meaningless. And it is true that you don't see the divisiveness on the air or in person that you see online. Not by a long shot.
I don't know why people:
1) ignore all the good that ARRL has done and is doing for us (no, I don't agree with them all the time either)
2) denigrate the good that hams do for their communities and even deny it happens
3) ignore the FACT that infrastructure independent communications will operate when infrastructures fail (that's what it means "when all else fails")
4) deny the technological prowess of Amateur Radio
5) have a ham license but constantly put down ham radio
6) resort to childish name-calling rather than having a discussion about differences of opinion
Those things are, for some strange reason, limited to ham radio online. You don't hear it on the air, you don't hear it in person, and you don't hear it about other activities online or in person.
I think we all need psychological evaluation.
My take:
Amateur Radio is peculiarly dependent on "Federal" control through FCC, therefore effective representation is vital, both nationally and internationally. ARRL is the only representation we have. That is undeniable fact. There is no one else. If you don't like what they are doing, join, and make your voice heard and if you don't like what your rep is doing, vote him/her out and put in someone who will listen. Heck, run for the office yourself. But stop putting down the only group that CAN help.
It's time we recognize that some people like SSB, some like CW, some like FM, some like PSK, etc. and some like several or all modes. They are not exclusive and there is absolutely no justification to put someone down just because they like a different mode. Contrary to the anti-coders, there is nothing obsolete about the first digital mode, any more than voice (which is older). Stop trying to take the CW off the air. Leave them alone and the controversy will die down. You won (it seems) the license fracas, be satisfied and drop the rest of the agenda.
If you are not interested in emeregency preparedness and public service, fine. No one is demanding that you do so. No one is putting you down if you just want to do the hobby part. Nobody. But please, PLEASE stop denying what your fellow amateurs are doing, and even saying there is something wrong with them doing it. You are only hurting the public image of ham radio when we need all the support we can get.
And stop the inane harping that ham radio is obsolete or "behind the times". That is simply not true. It is only different technology from the other radio services, not more or less advanced - just different. No other service has the computer interoperability that ham radios have had for years. CB is still using AM. Public service radios are more rugged, use some encoding we don't want or need, but are far less versatile. It's different, fellows, not better or worse, because the equipment has a different purpose.
And, you know, that may be part of the problem, it occurs to me as I write this. American society has come to the odd conclusion that "different" has to be either better or worse. That is a major problem. It is simply not true. Different is just different. It might be better, or it may be worse, but most likely it is just different and neither better or worse.
CW is not better that SSB, it is not worse. It is just different. Boat anchors are just different from modern radios. Each is better than the other in some ways, worse in others. Your Icom isn't better than my Kenwood or Joe's Collins or Sam's TenTec. They are just different, with features that suit the owners, and that's why the owners bought different radios.
Lighten up, guys! We are all different. And that is a good thing. Remember the old saying: "I am better than no man, but no man is my better." .... so true.
And have some respect for your fellow ham who is different from you. The differences enrich our lives, if we let them.
(End of sermon, would someone please pass the collection plate?)
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K4JF on October 2, 2005
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<ARRL's present proposal for a "new Novice" license is looking to take us halfway back to the successful Novice license of the 60s and 70s. Although it doesn't appear that the FCC wants to go along with it, I think that having a reasonable first step for licensing is good for the future of ham radio.
Ed Hare, W1RFI >
I agree, Ed. We currently have no entry-level license, which can be used to see if one really wants to be a ham. We need a simple license, with limited privileges, but if we do it, we desperately need to bring back the time limit, too. I suggest 2 years. A renewable Novice license is ridiculous.
As a Scout leader of many years, I think that would be a major plus for recruiting young people. They shouldn't have to go theough all the Tech license just to see if they would like ham radio. There are too many other things young people are into.
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RE: What a waste:
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by K4JF on October 2, 2005
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< It seems if you don't agree with the 30.000 arrl fans then you're a bottom feeder. Last time i looked there were a few hundred thousand of us that did not agree with them >
You've polled hams and found hundreds of thousands that are anti-ARRL? Pardon me, but I find that unbelievable. From where I sit, there are maybe a few thousand who disagree with them, and that's a stretch. I've personally only seen a few dozen.
There are many who are not members who, don't know about the organization, are not active, can't afford it, many, many reasons they are not members. You can NOT assume they are anti-ARRL, just because they are not members. That is false logic.
And ARRL DOES represent you. That is fact and it is not changed if you say they don't. For years I had a Democrat representing me in Congress. I didn't like it, as he was against all I stood for, but I couldn't deny that he represented me. It was fact. So if their views are so different from yours, get in there and change them. And if you are outvoted, accept it.
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RE: THANK YOU ARRL!!!
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by W6TH on October 2, 2005
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.
ARRL's present proposal for a "new Novice" license is looking to take us halfway back to the successful Novice license of the 60s and 70s. Although it doesn't appear that the FCC wants to go along with it, I think that having a reasonable first step for licensing is good for the future of ham radio.
------------------------------------------------
The reason the FCC doesn't want to go along with the back and forth, back and forth, back and forth novice class ticket is because the ARRL is playing head games with the FCC and the FCC is seeing through this. Enough is enough. Why wasn't the novice class left alone as originally set and planned? It was a great success.
Compare the knowledge of before WW2 for the ham radio to conditions of today.
Why so many classes of tickets of today from the past of Novice, class "B", class "A"? Looks like more progressive members for the ARRL was expected with more classes and learning books.
The ARRL has bitten the hand that feeds them.
I challenge the ARRL to engage, to come right out and fight for the keeping of CW and make it mandatory for a ham ticket of "all" classes and not discriminate between cw and ssb operation.
.:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W3ULS on October 2, 2005
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WA9PIE:
Writing your congressman to support an ARRL bill is exactly what NOT to do, according to the article I posted. You're asking for a favor, and will get nothing of value in return.
ARRL has to do some heavy spadework per the article. Support from random members of the House (or Senate) is not needed and frankly is an unnecessary distraction from the real task. Targeted support eventually will be required, yes, but this is months, if not years off.
In the meantime, as I noted, the basic blocking and tackling is not being done. The $64 question is: Is the League using Washington activity as a membership recruitment ploy, or is the ARRL's leadership serious about its legislative program? Are they being honest with the members?
Time will tell . . .
As to the other posts and posters commenting on ARES, etc., carry on.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 2, 2005
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I challenge the ARRL to engage, to come right out and fight for the keeping of CW and make it mandatory for a ham ticket of "all" classes and not discriminate between cw and ssb operation.
------
And I suppose everyone should drive the same cars and wear the same color clothing too..
...Come over here to the 21 st century.
ARRL is doing what the majority of it's members want them to do.
The people have spoken. Deal with it.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 2, 2005
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.
KC8VWM
ARRL is doing what the majority of it's members want them to do.
------------------------------------------------
What about the non-membership, do they not have a say?
You mean to say there is no democracy in regards to ham radio? Maybe that is one of many problems concerning ham radio.
Don't let your jealously; jealous of the success of others control and get the best of you.
.:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 2, 2005
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What about the non-membership, do they not have a say?
So called jealously aside, (whatever that is supposed to mean) the idea of "membership" also includes the very idea that there is more power, a louder voice and significant legislation leverage in sheer membership numbers.
So yes, you are invited to go ahead and voice your democratic "say."
After all, this is a free democracy even if no one is going to actually hear what it is you wish to express.
It's a rather simple concept really.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by WA6BFH on October 2, 2005
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Gee that’s funny, when I and a handful of other hams made a proposal for the expansion of the 6 Meter repeater sub-band, the response back from the ARRL was “we do not see the need for such an expansion”. I guess that is how things are looked at on the east coast.
When the NPRM passed very smoothly, and also a comprehensive band plan was submitted to the ARRL, they picked it up pretty fast, and said that it was a good piece of work. Then a couple years later they made this announcement that their new modified plan just simply plunked R/C frequencies down near the bottom of the band. No discussion, no inquiry -- did they forget who wrote and submitted the earlier band plan that they had endorsed, and why we had considered spectrum for all modes even on to the future?
This is yet another small example of the way the ARRL proceeds on issues. If we did it the ARRL way, the 6 Meter repeater sub-band would still be 52 to 54 MHz, They would have nifty articles in QST or QEX to build “AM” radios for the lower portion of the band. Shoot, by this day and age, I will bet they have discovered how nifty JFET’s are!
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RE: Same ole mess:
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by WR8D on October 2, 2005
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One guy up the thread must not talk to very many at all and no i've not conducted a poll just ask around on a lot of frequencys on differant bands, and looked up the numbers ratio. Now i'm called a lier. Nothing has been said here to change my mind or feelings infact my feelings are even stronger now than before. Its still the same ole blind blundering bunch. Go be lead if you must, many of us can see through the hog wash though. Grow up and stop the name calling like children. Show those of us that have dropped our membership in recent years some positive action that its underlying purpose was'nt simply a drive to aquire more members at any cost to the requirements of our wonderful hobby/service. Gee folks get your heads outa the sand. 73 John WR8D:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 2, 2005
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.
the idea of "membership" also includes the very idea that there is more power, a louder voice and significant legislation leverage in sheer membership numbers.
---------------------------------------
There is more power, a louder voice and significant legislation leverage in sheer numbers by "including the non-membership".
I am happy that you enlightened me and brought this subject to mind as I can now visualize that the ARRL organization is not a democratic organization and uses forceful control of its membership. (typical).
.:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K4JF on October 2, 2005
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<ARRL is doing what the majority of it's members want them to do.
------------------------------------------------
What about the non-membership, do they not have a say? You mean to say there is no democracy in regards to ham radio? >
----------------------
Of course they don't have a say. YES there is a democracy in Amateur radio. The ARRL is a representative democracy. Non-members have no say for exactly the same reason that Russian (or any other citizens of another country) have no say in the U.S. Congress.
That's what a democracy is, and I find it wierd that anyone should think that outsiders should have a say in the operation of any entity.
The solution is simple - the Unions have used it for years. Join together to have a stronger voice than any individual.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 2, 2005
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Gee that’s funny, when I and a handful of other hams made a proposal for the expansion of the 6 Meter repeater sub-band, the response back from the ARRL was “we do not see the need for such an expansion”.
-----
Whoever said the ARRL jumps on the bandwagon for every single proposal anyone has ever made to them?
You have to read between the lines when reading such responses. That doesn't translate into the idea that they dont want to represent amateur radio. It means that they dont jump on the legislation switch every time a suggestion is made to them.
“we do not see the need for such an expansion”.
That is not to say that they "do not see the need" per se, nor are they saying that they don't understand your situation. What it means is that they are busy with more important issues of a higher priority that require intervention and they don't consider a handful of people in the more global perspective of things as qualifing for the idea of pushing all other matters aside to deal with that particular issue or request.
It would seem that the ARRL (or any organization)would have to take a rather conservative approach and limit thier proposal efforts to issues that take a front seat of higher priority of concern to it's members.
This is not in any way an unusual practice for any large organization that I know of. It would appear that the ARRL is no different in using this same methodology when dealing with members proposed issues at hand.
Can you imagine if the ARRL tried to meet every members individual whims or requests all at the same time and they carried out each and every members request? There would obviously be total chaos in Newington, and the FCC or anyone else for that matter wouldn't know if the ARRL was coming or going.
Obviuosly, they would need to take a more structured approach when handling these matters in a certain order of concern and priority.
This is what I am seeing when I read between the lines of that response. I dont translate that to mean that they are unwilling to represent amateur radio.
73 Charles - KC8VWM
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K0RGR on October 2, 2005
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Do you guys even own radios?
In my 40 years on the air, I've never heard as much real, honest to mercy emergency traffic on the ham bands as I did in the first days after Katrina.
Lives were saved thanks to ham radio this time.
All you needed to do was turn on your receiver and listen on 20, 40, or 80 meters.
Yes, some cellphones were still working in New Orleans. But if you called 9-1-1, you were connected to a 9-1-1 center in Texas. The 9-1-1 center in Texas then passed the message to a ham on the SATERN 20 meter net who passed the messages back to New Orleans! I listened to this going on, myself. This was how a lot of the emergency traffic originated.
There were documented cases where the Coast Guard's antiquated radios (that they've been griping about for ages) failed miserably, and hams stepped in to provide modified ham gear as replacements.
I heard the commander of the National Guard on CNN blaming the entire New Orleans fiasco on his "obsolete non-satellite radios". Guess where he wants the Pentagon to spend their next 10 Billion bucks.
The police department's billion dollar trunked radio system was kaput from the start. Repeaters were destroyed, and mobile units were soon drowned. After a couple days, HT's batteries were drained, with no way to recharge them. Again, ham HT's that could use AA batteries were rapidly modified and handed out.
All of ham radio's resources were involved, from CW, SSB, VHF FM, even a little Echolink and IRLP (particularly during Rita, not much in Katrina), and WINLINK. Certainly not perfect by any means, but a darn good show, none the less.
All you needed to do was listen to find this out.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 2, 2005
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K4JF
The ARRL is a representative democracy. Non-members have no say for exactly the same reason that Russian (or any other citizens of another country) have no say in the U.S. Congress.
------------------------------------------
Think about this:
We hams are all citizens or living within These United States. Does this make a difference not being from Russia.
Don't bring U.S. Congress into this as many Americans do not recognize them as a friendly group, but as a den of thieves.
.:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 2, 2005
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K4JF
Of course they don't have a say. YES there is a democracy in Amateur radio. The ARRL is a representative democracy.
----------------------------------------
Conservative or Liberal, you young generation know little about. You believe in democracy and yet do not understand how it works.
Here is proof that our forefathers did not believe in democracy or government.
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."
-Thomas Jefferson
"A democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy that did not commit suicide."
-John Adams
.:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 2, 2005
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"I am happy that you enlightened me and brought this subject to mind as I can now visualize that the ARRL organization is not a democratic organization and uses forceful control of its membership. (typical). "
-------
Now that's a clear thought process you are demonstrating, now isn't it.
I suppose it would make perfect sense to just agree with you in the fact that unions or any organization that represents a body of people are not considered a very democratic process or way of doing things huh?
...I suppose the undemocratic ARRL cronies use forceful control of its members by tying up and suspending their members from their wrists on rafters in the cold and dark dungeons located far below the W1AW building in Newington, forcing them into submission while controlling their every thought with a Wouff Hong in hand...
That sounds perfectly logical to me.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 2, 2005
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KC8VWM
I suppose it would make perfect sense to just agree with you in the fact that unions or any organization that represents a body of people are not considered a very democratic process or way of doing things huh?
--------------------------------------
Within a union organization, there is a agreement or contract between the employer and the employees. No democratic process.
.:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by WA6BFH on October 2, 2005
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Charles, you are being exceedingly naïve!
After the NPRM went through, and the bandplan was accepted, the ARRL made announcements that by their wording suggested “hey aren’t we great here at headquarters being so forward thinking as to address problems before they become problems.” I and my friends just shrugged our shoulders and didn’t make a big deal out of it.
Like I said, they approved the Southern California band plan as the international band plan, and did this also with great fanfare. They made various releases that interested parties who favor other bands should be as forward thinking, and deal with coordination problems on 2 Meters etc. Yea, like that has ever happened.
In any case, what has been echoed here by most Hams of my tenure, some shorter, and many longer is that the ARRL simply does not think and analyze problems. In effect the author of this piece is saying the same thing. If we did not have smaller independent groups who look at -- as you would put it -- each of these individual problems, Ham radio would be a mess.
The ARRL simply does not “carry the water” that they should for any Ham issues. Look at “BPL”. They are all up in arms about that, but did not realize that “Spread Spectrum” carried the same sort of problematic use -- and did it from within the Ham bands. They simply did not understand the issues -- it took the same “small independent group” that promoted that 6 Meter band plan to explain it to them.
That group and others has worked also to protect our microwave spectrum, when the ARRL did not even bother to submit comments to the FCC!
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 2, 2005
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Ok, i'm listening John.
I have to ask you a question for clarification though.
You said:
"If we did not have smaller independent groups who look at -- as you would put it -- each of these individual problems, Ham radio would be a mess."
My question is;
"Should the ARRL be solely responsible for selecting and identifying specific issues affecting amateur radio, or should it be the responsibility of hams to bring these issues to the ARRL's attention?"
Which way would be the more preferred method in your own opinion?
73 Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K3WVU on October 2, 2005
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ARRLFAN/IMBACKHF/GHOSTRIDERHF/K4FAU wrote:
"Please stop that -- it makes us all look stupid..."
believe me, son, you don't need anyone to help you look stupid! LOL!!!!!
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by WA6BFH on October 2, 2005
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You would think that all that is necessary is to bring these problems before the ARRL, explain it to them, and they will pick up the slack from there. They have proven to not do that, and do not even want to address in such detail as would indicate they think the matter too small to be of concern. Their first and immediate response seems to be “that problem is too small, or of no threat or interest”. Then when somebody else does the leg work on it, they make it sound like it was their idea. You can imagine that this does not sit well with those involved -- hence my point(s)!
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 2, 2005
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I see your point and what you are saying John.
But what is troubling me about that whole situation is that while they didn't listen to anyone at first, they eventually worked to resolve the problem after it was presented in a different light.
It is for this reason I am left wondering if it just wasn't a classic example of how the case was first presented to the ARRL.
Now I could be absolutely wrong about this entire situation John, but one must consider that anytime you present a case in point to ARRL, then one should probobly have supporting facts and documentation to present in addition to a voiced concern or complaint to get them moving on something.
By your own account it seems that is exactly what happened on the second attempt made by the group of hams in addressing the matter before the ARRL.
As far as the ARRL not being concerned about protecting the microwave radio spectrum you said:
"That group and others has worked also to protect our microwave spectrum, when the ARRL did not even bother to submit comments to the FCC!"
I am wondering if you can provide any additional information or details on this particular case in point for discussion?
You see John, I have a hard time believing that the ARRL would not be interested in protecting our spectrum when it would be thier very own interests they are protecting.
That's why I have to wonder if there is more to this story to consider from the ARRL side of things?
It could be that we are not hearing both sides of the story, I don't know.
73 - Charles KC8VWM
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by WA6BFH on October 2, 2005
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Sure they want to protect the spectrum, especially 20 Meters. I say that obviously as tongue in cheek humor, but it seems to often ring true.
I’m not sure what point it serves to dredge up each and every point I can think of. Many of them I would have to first seek the details from others, to make certain that I am addressing the points as we all remember them, and get my ducks in a row. I can tell you that on technical matters, all the I’s were dotted, and the t’s crossed, and the ARRL often just did not understand the point. To me and those friends I am thinking of, this has come to be common place, and understood of the ARRL as the typical situation.
Suffice it to say, and I would expect that you would trust my voracity on this, there are many many instances through the years where the ARRL has just appeared dumb, blind, or otherwise unconcerned. As I said earlier, this prompted a good friend of mine, and the then Vice Director of the Southwestern Division to quit with a formal letter of protest. The man who replaced him worries about BPL, but had no understanding of the problems posed by Spread Spectrum.
The action that prompted the resignation of the former Vice Director was about the loss of the lower 2 MHz of the 135 centimeter band. What really made it poignant is when this caused a mass flurry of re-coordination of every 220 FM repeater in Southern California, (which was even then I’m sure some 200 or more repeaters) the ARRL took an interesting stand. The proposal of the coordinators involved (that are essentially exclusively interested in FM) was that the “weak signal” calling frequency at 222.1 could adequately exist as a 10 KHz wide window. Afterall, a nominal SSB signal is about 3 KHz wide right, so whats the problem? The problem of course is that any use of the “channel” for its intended use uses high gain antennas, as well as receivers with high gain preamps at the front-end. An appeal was made to the ARRL for a reasonable and cogent response. There idea of such a response was that there are lots of folks on FM, and relatively few on SSB and iCW. So it can be seen that pursuing the science of Ham radio is not as important as having repeaters for people to chat on during commute times etc. Obviously good old Hiram Percy would have told us that 97.1 clearly indicates the greater good for the greater number. I forget which part of 97.1 stipulates that!
There are many such points I could raise, and many that I have even forgotten now in the 40 years I have been at this. Remember that for about 9 years I was an ARRL Technical Coordinator, a thankless job, for which the Section or Division leaders had simply no understanding. The gamut for me runs from “Incentive Licensing” of the mid-sixties, to our current licensing dilemmas today. Shoot, ask guys like TH what they think of the ARRL -- it seems the longer a person is licensed, the more they dislike this organization!
I would like to see the ARRL be a better and more responsive representative of Ham radio, they just aren’t. Like I said before, that also seems to be the point of this articles author!
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 2, 2005
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You already know I completely trust your avidity on the matter John.
You seemed to have raised some very serious issues with respect to ARRL and to be quite honest I am quite literally shocked to hear your side of the story.
I wasn't aware you were a past ARRL Technical Coordinator and it would seem to appear evidenty obvious I have a lot to learn. I am not making any bones about that fact.
But John, my question is, who else or what else are we supposed to use to represent the best interests of those involved in Amateur Radio? Would they be any any more responsive than ARRL? Would they do anything at all?
(..and please don't say K1MAN and AARA :)
Over to you John... Bleeep!
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K4JF on October 2, 2005
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<K4JF
The ARRL is a representative democracy. Non-members have no say for exactly the same reason that Russian (or any other citizens of another country) have no say in the U.S. Congress.
------------------------------------------
Think about this:
We hams are all citizens or living within These United States. Does this make a difference not being from Russia.
Don't bring U.S. Congress into this as many Americans do not recognize them as a friendly group, but as a den of thieves.>
Who said anything about us being from Russia?? Have you never seen an example to make a point? Sheesh!!
Again: people within vote, outsiders do not. It's that simple!! And it's the same everywhere! And it's the RIGHT way to do it!
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K4JF on October 2, 2005
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<Conservative or Liberal, you young generation know little about. You believe in democracy and yet do not understand how it works.
Here is proof that our forefathers did not believe in democracy or government.
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."
-Thomas Jefferson
"A democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy that did not commit suicide."
-John Adams >
I was talking about the ARRL, not the USA. The ARRL is a representative democracy. The USA is a Constitutional Republic (or at least it is supposed to be!) There are reasons a democracy will never work as a governmental system. One of the biggest is the lack of protection of minorities, and no protection for "unalienable rights". I could give lessons on that subject, thanks.
Big difference. Please READ what others write.
And thanks for calling me "young generation". But I don't think I qualify - I'm retired already.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W4ZV on October 2, 2005
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"The ARRL is a representative democracy."
You have repeatedly stated this but I beg to differ.
Case-in-point: K1ZM and I were co-sponsors of RM-10352 which proposed sub-bands on 160 meters for wideband modes just as exist on every other HF band that allows such modes (AM, SSB, SSTV, FM). Of approximately 500 unique comments on the FCC RM-10352 website, approximately 80% of all amateurs were in favor of this petiton. Doing a sort for ARRL members only, the figure was closer to 90% in favor. Yet ARRL chose to not support the petition and now has decided to use 160 meters as their example for all bands (see K1ZZ's editorial in October QST).
If as you stated, "ARRL is a representative democracy", how do you explain their action? I'm afraid the truth is, ARRL has decided "they know best" what is best for their members, independent of what their members actually desire.
I'm a Lifetime ARRL Member and support much of what they do, but ARRL does NOT act as a "representative democracy", at least in the case cited.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by WA6BFH on October 2, 2005
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No, I would not suggest the two alternates you offer HiHi!
My only genuine answer to that question is that Hams need to be more aware of what is going on with their hobby/service or insert your own favorite description (I like votary avocation).
I have found that the San Bernardino Microwave Society and the Southern California Repeater and Remote Base Association (SCRRBA) are very good custodians as regards protecting the microwave spectrum -- much better in my opinion than the ARRL.
There are a few others such as myself that keep a pretty close eye on 6 Meter issues.
As regards the rest, we try to do what seems the best thing at the best time. As an example, I don’t bitch and moan too much about the ARRL and BPL -- I pitched in to help also (see the Tech Bench Elmers page).
The groups I listed above share newsletters of other concerned groups (like the Mt Airy VHF Society ). We as Hams need to think and work constructively, operate and be active on as many Ham bands as humanly possible, and otherwise be able to speak intelligently about even those portions of spectrum and modes that we personally do not use.
Any other questions?
PS
My avidity huh? At least before it becomes lividity (about the head and shoulders)!
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 2, 2005
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No, I don't have any other questions at this time.
John, I do want to take the time to thank you for providing your most respectful insight and I appreciate your watchdog attitude with respect to protecting the future of the Amateur Bands.
I have to add that I have read many of your intelligent responses in the elmers section in the past and you are obviously very knowledgeable. But then again, I suppose 40 years of past amateur radio experience will do that to a person huh?
Please accept my best 73 until next time.
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W8JI on October 2, 2005
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It would be nice if the ARRL was operated like a democracy. It isn't. It listens to the members about the same as Washington listens to the voters.
Unless that changes we will have to put up with what K1ZZ wants the ARRL to do. I don't like the idea that an unelected officer has so much power. I think the board and other elected officials should run the show. At least in Washington we get to vote for the people who don't listen to the majority of voters. :-)
I am an ARRL member. It is the only horse we have in the race.
73 Tom
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 2, 2005
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K4JF
I was talking about the ARRL, not the USA. The ARRL is a representative democracy. The USA is a Constitutional Republic (or at least it is supposed to be!)
--------------------------------------------
Democracy is democracy where-ever it is to be used. I agree with Thomas Jefferson and John Adams.
You mention a Constitutional Republic, not any more, not with the Patriot Act. Our United States has been a Socialist Republic since the nomination of F.D. Roosevelt.
I assume you mean a declared constitutional Republic by the courts right of free speech. This is no longer valid.
We are living in a state of invalid laws, unconstitutional laws, so be careful how you describe our United States Republic.
Off the subject I know, but back to the ARRL as many have given their opinion which all sounds reasonable.
.:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 2, 2005
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It seems to me that the ARRL members are in complaint of what is asked of the members and is not granted.
My voice is what changes that have been made in recent years that do not benefit the Amateur Radio program.
Bear in mind that the ARRL is a profit making magazine company and hopefully can continue to remain in business and also to expand its/in profits.
Like all organizations comes force control and not bringing in profits will not be adhered to suggestions, even those beneficial to members.
You members cannot be forceful by any means and are at a loss as the ARRL does have the power to act/do as they please.
How many members have read the by-laws of the ARRL and taken note of the supreme powers that exist?
Next election, a suggestion would be to gain a leader that will conform to its members needs a deciding factor. Good luck members.
.:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K4JF on October 2, 2005
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<Bear in mind that the ARRL is a profit making magazine company and hopefully can continue to remain in business and also to expand its/in profits.>
Sorry, incorrect. Tha magazine is an incidental membership part of a NON-PROFIT organization. A little research is in order. Start at www.arrl.org
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K4JF on October 2, 2005
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<It would be nice if the ARRL was operated like a democracy. It isn't. It listens to the members about the same as Washington listens to the voters.>
If that's true, then vote them out. It's really very simple.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 2, 2005
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Vito, I would like to offer my apologies to you as it is not my intention to make enemies in our fraternity.
Sometimes we can all get carried away on the net and say things we really dont mean to say.
My Best
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K4JF on October 2, 2005
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< I think the board and other elected officials should run the show. I am an ARRL member. It is the only horse we have in the race.>
Agree on both points.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 2, 2005
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KC8VWM
No problem Charles as I live with an open mind and I enjoy free thinkers. No need for apologies.
The world is made of many and I enjoy eHAM to gather so much.
I had no intentions to offend you in any way or means and apologize if so.
73, W6TH.
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W8LV on October 2, 2005
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I don't see ANYONE representing us in Washington BUT the ARRL. I DO see lot of other interest groups out there, but none of them work for us, and many of them are determined to work against us. Like the BPL guys. And (especially) the CC&R uh..um... "No-good-Asinine-Zealot-Idiot land-use-dictators" that represent the condo associations and the developers out there. Do you really think that we are going to have new hams among the new young families who are stuck with not even being able to have an antenna in their yard? Where would YOU be without a bloody antenna to plug your radio into?
Here is what I see with the ARRL:
We have someone to lobby for our COMMON interest.
We have PR, both radio and television, that points out that we are acting in the PUBLIC's interest.
An '800' number for people who are interested in becoming hams to call.
A web site (ok not a 'perfect' one as I have pointed out in previous posts elsewhere, but hey it's there)
Educational resources,especially for the newcomer, the books, and (wonderful) videos by John and Martha King.
ARES.
NTS.
A real organization, with telephone numbers of people who actually answer their phones and their e-mails promptly AND promptly actually help you. And that goes for Headquarters and the local representatives.
An organizaton that communicates with Other Nation's organizations. Who was instrumental in obtaining agreements with other countries to we could easily operate on foreign shores with less paperwork hassles?
How about the group that communicates with our next-door neighbors the Radio Amateurs of Canada (and where did RAC get their start?)(and did you know that there are RAC members that are associate members of the ARRL, AND vice-versa?) How about our good friends in the UK, the RSGB? Who is your local source to easily obtain the (wonderful) RSGB publications? Why, the ARRL, of course! The ARRL is not just yur local and natonal organization for ham radio, they represent us t the world. Remember WARC and who helped to represent us to have primary allocation on 40 meters 7.000-7300? Or when we got the Woodpecker all over the band during the cold war? Just like we have BPL now to contend with. Gee, it was the ARRL, then, and now.
Articles about EchoLink. Eqso. Winlink. (have you ever thought about what would happen to the very words you are reading, let alone e-mail, if a terrorist group attacked the Internet backbone? Take a look at the winlink site if you want to know just what could happen without winlink. And you read about this stuff, NEW stuff, not just the 'usual' stuff (though it is theere, too), every month, in QST you find an article like that. It comes to your door. And, most likely, to your local library shelf. Maybe you saw a kid pick one of those up to 'just browse through' to see what it was all about. Maybe YOU were one of those kids, not so long ago. Remember what it was like for you to obtain informaton on amateur radio? How did YOU find out more about ham radio when you were a kid? ARRL mag, or book, or member, I'll bet.
And just who offers you a technical information service besides the ARRL, not to mention the ARRL labs?
Now ask yourself--have you ever offered to give your Secton Manager a hand? Have you ever even sent ONE e-mail to your local legislator in behalf of amateur radio? Or bothered to turn in a ballot to the ARRL, let alone vote in your own community? Have you elmered a neighbor, or a kid, or a Boy Scout? Invited anyone into the shack? Set up your equipment for a local elementary school? Does your local emergency disaster coordinator, or the Red Cross even know you exist? Could you even imagine how much worse Katrina would be in terms of human cost without ham radio? Or 911? or the (God Forbid) NEXT hurricane? or911? We are in a war, the likes of which we have never seen, and it looks to me like it is going to be a long one. Never have we been more needed, maybe not even since WWII, and even more so now with this type of enemy that we are fighting. Even if the public does not understand that yet. Here the ARRL can help, and we can help our country. The stronger our local communications links are, the weaker this enemy is, some of who have lived among us and enjoyed freedoms we extended to them as guests in our country, even as they surely drew their plans against us. Just for this reason alone, we should not let anyone fragment us, ever.
So before you deceide to not be a part of our national organization, I hope as a fellow ham that you, Please, Please "think it over". And let's be a little less critcal of each other, OK? Because, to paraphrase the old Honda ads "You Meet The Nicest People On A Ham Radio"
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6TH on October 2, 2005
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K4JF
Get an organization with no interest in selling goods or in it for a profit. One that will work with donations alone will outperform any ARRL. This kind get results.
I know how these non-profit organizations work, yet some work under the table.
.:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by X-WB1AUW on October 2, 2005
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I read a lot of articles.
For many years, I regularly read top tier, peer review, journal (articles). I read them because the authorship and research techniques were vetted. Because of the circumstances I was in, I would occasionally meet one of the reviewers, but more frequently, journal authors. Once in a while, someone would give me their rejected journal submission along with the review comments, and suggestions for further research.
Every one of the published articles from the journals created knowledge. Each assertion in the article had rigorous proof demonstrating its validity.
This article describing one way a bill is passed, may be accurate. However, it is devoid of any proof to support the assertion that < Writing your congressman to support a...bill is exactly what NOT to do>.
< Is the League using Washington activity as a membership recruitment ploy�.> is simply another baseless assertion. Unfortunately, this baseless assertion defames the character and integrity of every person in upper management of the ARRL. Indeed, it is an assault on the very character and spirit of the ARRL.
SHAME on you.
Even Wayne Green, at times a harsh critic of the ARRL, never accused League leadership of scamming funds from the public.
Many of the articles here are innocuously logic free.
Quite a few of comments are feckless drivel.
Together, the articles and comments are entertaining. Much the same way defendants trying to double talk Judge Judy are entertaining. I do not have to repay the loan because I am mad at them. I did not ask him to bail me out of jail, so I do not have to repay the bail fees. The cell phone was a gift, so I don�t have to pay the cell phone bill. Entertaining BS.
Thank fully, one can easily skip the postings by people engaging in childish mumbling. Likewise, one can skip posts from mean spirited people, continual ranters, along with posts from people determined to proved examples of bizarre personalities. All pass easily and quietly into the silence of early morning.
Branding the managers of The League as people who scam the public, a heinous accusation, is a sickening, putrid, new low, perpetrated against the good folks of eHam.
SHAME ON YOU.
AE7G
Bob Koerner
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by N0IU on October 2, 2005
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K4JF wrote, "Tha magazine is an incidental membership part of a NON-PROFIT organization."
Incidental??? If you ask most members of the ARRL, they will say that main reason they belong is for QST and all of the other 'benefits' are the ones that are incidental. I promise you that QST is a money making proposition for the League. A few years ago they cut the section news from QST so they could reduce the number of pages in order to reduce production costs. As far as they were concerned, this space was not being used to generate revenue so it had to go.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K4RAF on October 3, 2005
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"1935 - ARRL developed what is now called the Amateur Radio Emergency Service (ARES)"
Outdated as of 2005.
"1949 - ARRL created what is now known as the National Traffic System (NTS)"
Antique as of 2005. HF NTS spends more time crying they have no traffic than handling traffic. Buy a $0.03/min phone card!
"The VC Program was later developed to provide a means of tracking and, when necessary, opposing local ordinances and statutes that might have a detrimental effect on the Amateur Radio Service."
No, this is so the ARRL can once again put out the hand & beg donations for new causes. "Spectrum Protection" & "Fighting" BPL are just 2 examples of these pilfering solutions...
"For more than 50 years the League has sponsored the Official Observer program to help amateurs help each other."
This is my personal favorite, aside from VEC's. The OO program is for little men of low stature to send postcards (not even in an envelope) making allegations against your operation. The range of "offenses" ranges from being 3 minutes late for an ID, to an "offensive ham radio webpage". Then this is transcribed to the FCC. OO's serve no purpose other than to harass operators for trivial 'infractions' that they seem to make up more than find in Part 97 law. That is why the ARRL rewrote Part 97 under their interpretation which is distributed to OOs. What is wrong with plain, OFFICIAL Part 97?
VECs - Testing because if it were up to the FCC, there would be no tests...
ARRL is a feckless collection of self-egrandizing 'professional amateurs' drawing a paycheck for a hobby. What they do is solely based on assuring that payroll check don't bounce!
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RE: ARRL STRIKES OUT IN CONGRESS
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by W9WHE-II on October 3, 2005
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ARRL's list of failures is long and its list of successes short:
MAJOR ARRL FAILURES:
A) Fails to listen to the ham community, due, in no small part, to an arrogant, "we know what is best for you even if you are too stupid to know attitude";
b) Failed to protect a segment of 220 Mhz from being taken away and not used for the reason taken;
c) Failed to get antenna bill passed;
d) Failed to get the spectrum bill passed;
e) Advocates dumbing down ham radio to the extent that it will be hard to tell us from CB; and
f) Fails to properly solicit and consider the wishes of the majority of the ham community.
MAJOR ARRL SUCCESSES:
a) Selling overly priced, overly recycled publications;
b) (Can you name some?)
W9WHE
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K4JF on October 3, 2005
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<Get an organization with no interest in selling goods or in it for a profit. One that will work with donations alone will outperform any ARRL. This kind get results.>
Maybe, maybe not. I have been involved in many organizations, both with and without a sales department. I have seen to correlation as to effectiveness. Some are better, some are not. example: Boy Scouts is heavily involved in magazine, books and equipment and has been for many decades. There is no more effective youth organization out there.
Leadership makes more difference than "donations alone". And "donations alone" severely limits the budget.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K4JF on October 3, 2005
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< If you ask most members of the ARRL, they will say that main reason they belong is for QST and all of the other 'benefits' are the ones that are incidental.>
That is backwards from my statement. I wasn't talking about members perceptions. BY LAW the ARRL is non-profit, and have to prove it to the IRS every year.
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RE: ARRL STRIKES OUT IN CONGRESS
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by K4JF on October 3, 2005
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<MAJOR ARRL SUCCESSES:
a) Selling overly priced, overly recycled publications; (Priced lower than competitors)
b) (Can you name some?) >
There is a long and valid list above. Read it - we don't need to repeat it.
And the antenna bill is in process, not failed, so take it off your tiny little list.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by WA2KWP on October 3, 2005
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TO: ARRLFAN
Just to answer one of your questions.
"Give me ONE example where RED CROSS, or SATERN or SATCOM, or Cell, or govt/commercial VHF/UHF was down and ham radio was the only thing working"
One example: On December 23, 1972 there was an earthquake that completely destroyed the city of Managua, Nicaragua. I happened to be at my home that day and was called on 20 meters by a radio operator at the US embassy in Managua. He requested that I call the State Department in Washington, DC.
For about one hour, I was the only communications between our embassy in Nicaragua and the State Department.
I think that may answer your question. I am sure that there would be many many more examples of the same. Even with the sophisticated communications at our disposal, who would deny that the same thing could happen today. See the activities of Indian Hams during the recent Tsunami, when Ham Radio seemed to be the only available method of reliable communications for quite a while.
I think we should all be concentrating on getting new people as excited about our hobby as we are and stop attacking the ARRL. The ARRL is not the problem, we are the problem. We do not blow our own horn or recruit new people or show ourselves to the world in a positive light.
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ARRL PROGRAMS
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by KC8VWM on October 3, 2005
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"OO's serve no purpose other than to harass operators for trivial 'infractions'"
------
You really think so CJ?
I have to wonder if there are any studies done to determine the overall effectiveness of the program since it's inception.
For example, I was listening to 75/80m just last night again after playing here on eHam. I am noticing an increase in vulgar language used on the air lately. I can count at least 4 occasions when I heard the word "S**t being said in a 1 hour period like it was casual conversation.
5 or 10 years ago, hearing this word on the air was like committing the ultimate sin. Apparently, this is not the case anymore. Oh sure, noboby is perfect and the sometimes we can all slip once in a while but what really surprises me more than that is the fact that fellow hams seem to tolerate and dismiss this regular behaviour as casual everyday conversation with others using the same frequency.
I think in my case I would probobly just issue my callsign and immediately sign off the air leaving the individual to talk to himself. But hey, that's just me.
The OO program is supposed to prevent these sort of things from happening in the first place right? So why is it that we continue to have these CB bucketmouths spewing vulgarity on 75/80m's when the whole world is listening in?
73 Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: ARRL PROGRAMS
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by W6TH on October 3, 2005
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.
I think we should all be concentrating on getting new people as excited about our hobby as we are and stop attacking the ARRL. The ARRL is not the problem, we are the problem. We do not blow our own horn or recruit new people or show ourselves to the world in a positive light.
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What a crock of ****. before WW2 there were some 50 to 60,000 hams, now there are over 650,000 hams.
The ARRL is the problem and see what has happenend to ham radio since WW2. No more challenge for the younger generation and it is up to the older folks to keep the ship floating.
I must explain: Ham tests for 6 and 7 year olds are the problem.
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Will Congress help?
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by WB2WIK on October 3, 2005
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I think if hams want to revolt against CC&Rs the way to do it is with their wallets and bank accounts by simply not investing in such properties, which obviously leads to their perpetuation.
Everything else is rhetoric.
Buying covenant-restricted property and then campaigning for a variance from elements of those covenants is a bit like buying a Chevy and then campaigning for GM to change their ways because it turns out not to be a Ferrari. The choice was clearly in the hands of the buyer.
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RE: ARRL PROGRAMS
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by KG4SPA on October 3, 2005
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Interseting thread to say the least.
A point that was missed is traffic capacity. In emergency situations standard communications systems become over loaded and can not handle the large demands put on them. In many cases Ham radio fills the gap. Durring Katrina & Rita, hams provided needed capacity that the other systems could not provide.
The argument that if the other systems are up, Ham radio is not needed is false. Hams provide extra capacity that allows distaster mangers to prioritize traffic.
A lesson that was learned in Afganistan & Iraq is that while satalite radios are great, they were soon overloaded with demand and there weren't enought channels to go around. It proved difficult to communicate with some distant units. The solution? The Army is now going back to use HF radios for longer range communications. No different than with domestic disasters/emergencies. The demand for reliable communications soon exceeds capacity.
During the hurricans of last year (I live near Orlando, FL) I was better informed on what was going on by simply listening in on the ham communications coming out of the various central Florida EOC's. It was very clear that the EOCs were passing a lot of critical traffic via Ham radio. Cell phones did work but there were so few cell towers still up that the public was asked not to use cell phones so that emergency workers could have access to the limited capacity that was available.
Since last year my 2 meter HT is always charged and it goes with me most everywhere.
73
Tony
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RE: ARRL STRIKES OUT IN CONGRESS
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by N0IU on October 3, 2005
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W6TH <Bear in mind that the ARRL is a profit making magazine company and hopefully can continue to remain in business and also to expand its/in profits.
K4JF <Sorry, incorrect. Tha magazine is an incidental membership part of a NON-PROFIT organization. A little research is in order. Start at www.arrl.org
N0IU <If you ask most members of the ARRL, they will say that main reason they belong is for QST and all of the other 'benefits' are the ones that are incidental.>
K4JF <That is backwards from my statement. I wasn't talking about members’ perceptions. BY LAW the ARRL is non-profit, and have to prove it to the IRS every year.>
N0IU <My statement being 180 degrees out of phase with yours is EXACTLY my point! People don’t join organizations and maintain their membership in them because of their legal status with the IRS, they do so because of the perceived value of being a member of that organization. Obviously many people here see little to no value in being a member of the League regardless of their status with the IRS.
Just because an organization is registered as non-profit, this does not mean that they can not raise money to support their cause. QST is a money maker for the League meaning that it does not operate at a loss. If it did, it wouldn't keep showing up in your mailbox every month which is exactly my point. Of all the things the League does 'behind the scenes' that may or may not affect me, I can count on going to my mailbox every month to get the magazine. There is NO ONE in Newington that will tell you that QST is incidental to their operations. If they stopped publishing QST, their membership would drop by at least 90%.
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RE: ARRL STRIKES OUT IN CONGRESS
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by NI0C on October 3, 2005
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With the increasing corruption in the halls of Congress (winked at and encouraged by the Administration), it is difficult for nonprofit organizations to get the attention of our lawmakers, even when backed up by sound technical or moral arguments.
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RE: ARRL STRIKES OUT IN CONGRESS
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by NI0C on October 3, 2005
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"If they stopped publishing QST, their membership would drop by at least 90%."
I don't believe that.
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RE: ARRL STRIKES OUT IN CONGRESS
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by N0IU on October 3, 2005
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In respsose to my comment, "If they stopped publishing QST, their membership would drop by at least 90%", NI0C wrote, "I don't believe that."
OK, what about 80-85%? To a majority of members, belonging to the ARRL is a magazine subscription with benefits... and I use that term very loosely!
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RE: ARRL STRIKES OUT IN CONGRESS
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by NI0C on October 3, 2005
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N0IU:
I view ARRL differently, and I suspect more than 15-20% of its members would share my view. ARRL, though far from perfect, is our representative organization to the IARU, and also the FCC. If it weren't for ARRL, we wouldn't have ham radio today. That's a historical fact. You can't say the same thing about W5YI, or even CQ. ARRL is far more than just a magazine publisher. However, if it's just a magazine you're interested in, I'd recommend CQ over QST (I subscribe to both).
73,
Chuck NI0C
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RE: ARRL STRIKES OUT IN CONGRESS
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by W6TH on October 3, 2005
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.
NI0C
Not all true Chuck.
I view ARRL differently, and I suspect more than 15-20% of its members would share my view. ARRL, though far from perfect, is our representative organization to the IARU, and also the FCC. That's a historical fact. You can't say the same thing about W5YI, or even CQ. ARRL is far more than just a magazine publisher. However, if it's just a magazine you're interested in, I'd recommend CQ over QST (I subscribe to both).
73,
Chuck NI0C
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I suspect more than 15-20% of its members would share my view.
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Why not let the others speak for themselves? Your "suspect" are not a fact.
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If it weren't for ARRL, we wouldn't have ham radio today.
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Not true as ham radio and broadcasting was well ahead of the ARRL. ARRL Came in after the Feds took control.
at that time it wasn't the FCC. Check that out, check out the "DEPT of XXX".
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However, if it's just a magazine you're intereste in.
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Yes, then came the QST and the ARRL.
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However, if it's just a magazine you're interested in, I'd recommend CQ over QST (I subscribe to both).
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Yes, both magazines are very good and both a magazine publishing company. In my opinion; nothing more.
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How little is forgotten since the days of Hiram Percy Maxim wnen there was non of this wishy whashy going on as today. Those were the years when ham radio was taken seriously and not as childs play as it is today.
I will assume that you will agree with me.
73, W6TH.
.:
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RE: ARRL PROGRAMS
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by K4RAF on October 3, 2005
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"The OO program is supposed to prevent these sort of things from happening in the first place right? So why is it that we continue to have these CB bucketmouths spewing vulgarity on 75/80m's when the whole world is listening in?"
Charles,
Yes I do think so as both the examples have happened to people I know. One is a close personal friend who obviously gave his call or the idiot OO would not have known where to send the card! 3 minutes late is a priority? A ham website, deemed 'tasteless' so he gets an OO card?
Why does it continue to happen? Because the OO program is totally inept & ineffective. They focus on trumped up "infractions" while the serious ones scare them senseless. They have redigested versions of Part 97, colored by no less than the ARRL.
I am not at all offended by language & never have been but jamming is quite another story. I don't see the FCC themselves doing anything about this jamming so why should it be any surprise that OOs can diddle away their little naked whining postcards in the mail without any concrete results?
My group is a constant target of hecklers, especially on 40M where it seems not a day goes by that we are not on the unidentified & "language-rich" radar screen. It has nothing to do with license class or lowering of standards. Most we have found are old time Extras...
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RE: ARRL PROGRAMS
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by W6TH on October 3, 2005
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.
I was a Official Observer back in my younger days and the times today are much different.
There were no cuss words ever used on the ham bands and of course our transmitters did have a habit of having a chirp.
The OO's were run on the up and up and a non-nonsense basis. It did work well with the ARRL and I was asked to please submit at least 3 corrections per month. This meant really scanning the bands, yet was easily possible to find real faulty transmissions.
Of today with our higher knowledge and design of radios, it is much harder to find problems of transmissions.
Therefore what can you we expect from our present OO's?
Good question and as I see it today, OO is not necessary any longer and leave it all up to the Federal Candy Company. Put our taxes to better use. Or is it "you get what you pay for"?
.:
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W8LV on October 4, 2005
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I have always worked in highly technical fields. I have also usually for leisure time chosen hobbies that are technical in nature, i.e. computers and ham radio.
Over the years, I have noted three primary types of individuals who are attracted to these pursuits: The first group (and thank God they are the majority) are nice folks who are doing the best that they can, they use their determination to ride the wave of the learning curve in whatever subject they pursue, and they take great personal satisfaction when they can forge the technology to accomplish a goal that they have. They invite others to look at what they are doing, and how they are to go about that work. They see the Internet as a wonderful new tool to consult with colleagues.
The second group of folks that I meet seem to struggle and cuss at when the technology is not working for them as they envisioned. I find this amusing, as they ALSO seem to take satisfaction when the bugs are worked out in a technical pursuit. They go about it like they need to "whip" the technology into shape, so it "behaves" properly. They enjoy the end-accomplishment, but not the steps to get there. Quite amusing, indeed., and while these folks are fun to be around for the "Victory Party", it is not too fun to be stuck in a room with them for eight, or twelve, or longer hours. The �Victory� is also usually short for them; they are already working on the � next step� in their minds, even as they are celebrating the recent victory with their colleagues!
Then I find a third group of folks who are VERY technically competent, but not too good as far as people skills. They don�t work well not only in a group, but even with just one other person. They are very opinionated. Their comments border on the mean spirited, as they are made with total disregard for others. They are loaners, even in the larger organization of their peers. And everyone learns pretty quickly to steer clear of them. You find that these folks are also usually pretty fascinated with their latest "accomplishment": they have the best widget in the land, and by golly, you better be aware of it!
I have found that these folks who are highly technically competent, but lack people skills are a real pan in the behind, both for myself and the larger organization, no matter if this was a professional, or volunteer, or hobby pursuit. They do little communication on a direct level, whether it is with their peers. Usually their home life is also a disaster, so apparently not too much direct dialogue goes on their either, but I digress. They have found the Internet, with it's complete lack of direct communication is their oyster! This is because they can post without restraint. Self-appointed power will be pursued even at great personal expense, so it seems.
The point here is, we seem to have a lot of folks posting here who are acting like they are in the third category. Gee whiz guys! Look at your posts concerning the ARRL. And I don't mean your opinions on the ARRL, either way. Just look at the "I"ll copy and past YOUR dumb comment and prove that you were wrong when you copied-and-pasted MY comment with your comment" type of stuff. Did your Elmer fail to explain to you that we are a ham radio fraternity, a community, or maybe the problem goes further back to being bullied (or being the bully) in the third grade? And...just remember before you reply to and criticize me for my lengthy post "MY DAD CAN BEAT UP YOUR DAD". So There.
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8VWM on October 4, 2005
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"The point here is, we seem to have a lot of folks posting here who are acting like they are in the third category. Gee whiz guys!"
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Hmm. interesting points. I admit I am not perfect either at times and I think we can all have our online moments from time to time. (Human nature perhaps?) But hey, at least I am working on improving this and I hope others take your advice especially the following statement you made as follows:
"Did your Elmer fail to explain to you that we are a ham radio fraternity, a community."
I think it's important to remember that we are not enemies of one another but rather we are collegues. I know, sometimes that's easier to forget than to practice right?
The fact of the matter is, I think each and every one of us here today are going to be here playing here in this big sandbox together for a very, very long time. So, I suppose we might as well start getting used to one another because none of us (hopefully) are going to go away anytime soon.
My Best
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: ARRL PROGRAMS
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by KC8VWM on October 4, 2005
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I am not at all offended by language & never have been but jamming is quite another story.
-----
I go along with that CJ, I am not particularly offended either. I am just surprised at the increased frequency of the language observed. It's probobly just a reflection of our modern day society.
Take Care,
Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: ARRL Strikes Out In Congress - Again
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by W9WHE-II on October 4, 2005
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W1RFI writes:
"I will be a member as long as I feel that overall, they are doing things that need my support to happen"
Ed, last I checked, YOU ARE A PAID ARRL STAFF MEMBER. Be honest. You will be an ARRL member for as long as they keep signing your paychecks.
Ed also writes:
"I find it ironic that those that withhold the resources needed are the often the ones that complain the most bitterly that ARRL is not doing what it should be doing"
Ed, you just don't get it.
If ARRL had double the money, we would still be critical. ARRL's problems are not related to what it does, but rather what it DOES NOT do......namely give a hoot what anybody outside Newington thinks or wants. And therein is ARRL's BIGGEST problem. ARROGANCE.
W9WHE
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RE: ARRL STRIKES OUT IN CONGRESS
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by W9WHE-II on October 4, 2005
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N0IU wrote:
"If they stopped publishing QST, their membership would drop by at least 90%"
I think that number is not far off. So many people are so very angry over ARRLs efforts to "dumb down" ham radio. Between that and ARRL's legislative impotence, I think the only reason ARRL can get around 20% of licensed US hams to join is QST. Now, if QST went away, I think more than half of current ARRL members would drop their memberships.
I bet ARRL has research on why people join ARRL. I bet that research shows its QST.
Come on Ed, tell me I'm wrong and show us data!
W9WHE
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K1DA on October 4, 2005
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As counsel to a state legislature I must say that
W3ULS is right on point and I consider a home run to be a bill passed by both houses and signed by the chief executive.
Several years ago I had occasion to give the local ARRL honcho advice on a PRB 1 bill in this state. He couldn't seem to understand that since I WORK here I couldn't do it myself (we can't promote a specific piece of legislation and be objective) so he blew me and my advice off (and, I understand, took some cheap
shots at me....real smart) This year... NO bill was introduced at all. BTW I offered to DRAFT the bill and follow it along "behind the scenes" to make sure it did not get sidetracked
or amended to death. Not enough for Mr. League apparently. No good deed.....
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W9WHE-II on October 4, 2005
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K1DA writes:
"Several years ago I had occasion to give the local ARRL honcho advice on a PRB 1 bill in this state. He couldn't seem to understand that since I WORK here I couldn't do it myself (we can't promote a specific piece of legislation and be objective) so he blew me and my advice off (and, I understand, took some cheap
shots at me....real smart)"
And what part surprises you? The fact that ARRL blew off a potentially helpful insider or the fact that they took shots at you? I'm not surprised. After all, we are talking about ARRL.
W9WHE
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Re; " the arrl does not represent us "
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by KF6IIU on October 4, 2005
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I am sure you anti-ARRL cranks make a good impression when you show up in Washington with a 2 inch gap between your T-shirt and pants and your rubber ducky mounted on top of your hard hat.
Congressional lobbying is a specialized, labor intensive, and unfortunate fact of life. Without it other interests will grab our spectrum faster than free donuts at a hamfest.
There is a lot to criticize the ARRL about but their existence as our poltical "muscle" is not one of them.
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RE: Re; " the arrl does not represent us &quo
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by W6TH on October 4, 2005
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.
Could be the members and the ARRL do not believe in democracy or have other means and ways in mind to approach the benefits for all.
We should hear more from the present day mambers and show greater support.
Is their effort put forth that it is not what the ARRL can do for you, but what you can do for the ARRL.
To do best for the ARRL is to join and become a member, pay your dues and give all the support money wise as is possible.
The ARRL in return will provide the magazine QST, hang around the Washington buildings and con you members and non members of what they are trying to do, but yet with no success.
How does it feel to have a government funded representative represent you?
I sent my two youngest children to a private school and it was less costly than paying the school taxes. Oh yes, a much better knowledge factor at that.
.:
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RE: ARRL DOES NOT REPRESENT US
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by W9WHE-II on October 5, 2005
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KF6IIU writes:
"There is a lot to criticize the ARRL about but their existence as our poltical "muscle" is not one of them"
What "muscle" are you referring to?
The "muscle" that lost the fight over 220 Mhz? The "muscle" that can't get the antenna bill passed? The "muscle" that can't get the spectrum bill passed? The "muscle" that waged, and lost, the wrong fight over BPL?
Mabey you mean the "muscle" that convinced FCC to "dumb down" the standards to bring us closer to CB.
Seems to me that if ARRL has any "muscle" its working AGAINST the best interests of ham radio, not for it.
W9WHE
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RE: ARRL DOES NOT REPRESENT US
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by K4RAF on October 5, 2005
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An example of real "political muscle" as it relates to Katrina relief:
"the FCC gave Intel conditional STA permits to use 3.6Ghz WiMax within four hours."
When has the ARRL or its' cronies ever got such results? It would have been more like 4 months, for a defeated request!
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RE: ARRL DOES NOT REPRESENT US
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by K5FZ on October 5, 2005
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I did not renew my ARRL membership about a year ago. It was a hard decision. While it is the only game in town, I found that it did not, for the most part, reflect my views or best interest on many issues important to me.
That being said, I am not an ARRL hater. Just because I found enough reasons to not remain a member, does not mean that I disagree with EVERYTHING they do.
There are issues that they back that I agree with. There just are enough that gall me to keep me out.
That is probably not a bad thing for the ARRL. I would think that they would want members who mostly agree with their policies.
I just don't believe that you have to hate the ARRL to not be a member.
Not being a member, is a way to voice discontent and dissatisfaction...really the only way with the ARRL.
Unfortunatly, I seem to be in such a minority that the loss of my membership doesn't matter to them. Emails and letters went unanswered at renewal time, so I dropped out...sounds like others have too, but I guess the voice of the majority rules.
Anyway, hopefully they will do SOME good for the hobby.
73,
Rich
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RE: ARRL DOES NOT REPRESENT US
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by K5FZ on October 5, 2005
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I did not renew my ARRL membership about a year ago. It was a hard decision. While it is the only game in town, I found that it did not, for the most part, reflect my views or best interest on many issues important to me.
That being said, I am not an ARRL hater. Just because I found enough reasons to not remain a member, does not mean that I disagree with EVERYTHING they do.
There are issues that they back that I agree with. There just are enough that gall me to keep me out.
That is probably not a bad thing for the ARRL. I would think that they would want members who mostly agree with their policies.
I just don't believe that you have to hate the ARRL to not be a member.
Not being a member, is a way to voice discontent and dissatisfaction...really the only way with the ARRL.
Unfortunatly, I seem to be in such a minority that the loss of my membership doesn't matter to them. Emails and letters went unanswered at renewal time, so I dropped out...sounds like others have too, but I guess the voice of the majority rules.
Anyway, hopefully they will do SOME good for the hobby.
73,
Rich
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RE: ARRL DOES NOT REPRESENT US
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by K5FZ on October 5, 2005
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I did not renew my ARRL membership about a year ago. It was a hard decision. While it is the only game in town, I found that it did not, for the most part, reflect my views or best interest on many issues important to me.
That being said, I am not an ARRL hater. Just because I found enough reasons to not remain a member, does not mean that I disagree with EVERYTHING they do.
There are issues that they back that I agree with. There just are enough that gall me to keep me out.
That is probably not a bad thing for the ARRL. I would think that they would want members who mostly agree with their policies.
I just don't believe that you have to hate the ARRL to not be a member.
Not being a member, is a way to voice discontent and dissatisfaction...really the only way with the ARRL.
Unfortunatly, I seem to be in such a minority that the loss of my membership doesn't matter to them. Emails and letters went unanswered at renewal time, so I dropped out...sounds like others have too, but I guess the voice of the majority rules.
Anyway, hopefully they will do SOME good for the hobby.
73,
Rich
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RE: ARRL DOES NOT REPRESENT US
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by WR8D on October 5, 2005
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Ref K5FZ: I guess you pretty much have said how i feel about them too, though i'm a coal miner and a red neck and never could put it in civilized terms or at least terms anyone could stand to read here. I had just about the exact experiance you did and figured it was time for me to leave many years ago though. You are'nt a minority and certainly not alone in your lets say "fed-up-ness" with the league. I guess only they know how many have left their ranks and we'll never know the truth of that. Who would of thought we'd see what we're seeing happen today to our amateur heritage, to the very foundations of what has made amateur radio so special? No this is not about code it goes much deeper for me. When you sell out what our forefathers established just to make a damn buck and wipe your feet on the hobby you're supposed to represent well, that makes it pretty clear for me. Look at the numbers of members verses non-members, looks like its pretty clear for a bunch of others too. There's a few hundred thousand cbers out there in the U.S. Maybe after they help get it dumbed down to the point a 3 year old can be extra class maybe they'll be able to attract those few hundred thousand as new members. Whats the youngest extra class now?? 6 or 7 years old. Way to go arrl! Maybe five more years and you'll have the job done completely. The terrible part for me is i'm still pretty young and have years to live and witness this crap if i'm going to enjoy the hobby/service. John WR8D:
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KC8ZTJ on October 5, 2005
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My perception of the lack of support for amateur radio as a national emergency response system stems from lack of control over the amateur system. We don't work for FEMA or a county/state government. "If we don't own it, we can't be depended on it." Events typically show that to be untrue and perhaps RACES and ARES will have more credibility with "organized" emergency services.
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RE: ARRL DOES NOT REPRESENT US
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by W9WHE-II on October 6, 2005
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K5FZ writes:
"I did not renew my ARRL membership about a year ago. It was a hard decision. While it is the only game in town, I found that it did not, for the most part, reflect my views or best interest on many issues important to me"
HOW DARE YOU. don't you know that your role is to shut up, sit down and send in your money?
HOW DARE YOU. Who do you think you are, anyway? You think you should be allowed to disagree with ARRL dogma?
HOW DARE YOU. Don't you know that the only reason we have ham radio is ARRL?
HOW DARE YOU. Don't you know that without ARRL's emcom courses, there would be no emcom?
HOW DARE YOU. Don't you know that ARRL needs your money to pay the sallaries of BOTH a Chief Operating Officer AND an Executive Director?
How insensitive of you!
BTW: Welcome to the majority!
W9WHE
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KE4SKY on October 6, 2005
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All that you need to do is read almost any thread on eham. Within minutes it soon degenerates into childish rants, flaming, and lunacy.
THAT my friends is what non-amateur public safety officials see when they research ham radio.
Doesn't that make you proud?
As a relatively powerless, mid-level local government official having some emergency management duties among my "other duties as assigned," I'm embarrassed by the self-serving, childish image that most hams project of amateur radio. It's no mystery to me why hams viewed by many local governments as a bunch of nuts who are full of ourselves and talk too much.
Why should they have anything to do with such a bunch of nitwits, ambulance chasing wannabees and senile fat men with CW keys...
Few and far between are well organized and active local ARES and RACES programs where the most dedicated hams share an interest in serving their community. An effective EC or RO establishes personal contact with local officials and community based organizations to assess local communication needs, identify determine suitable tasks which can be met using amateur radio, match local needs with the available amateur radio assets, and where necessary, enable law enforcement to conduct local background checks to pre-screen operators for sensitive tanding assignments, and include those pre-screened amateur operators in regular training, drills and exercises with the served agencies.
We are blessed with a very few outstanding ECs and ROs who do actually it right. But the ham commuity at large has no real interest in EmCom. About 95% of hams would be of little or no use in a real emergency because their skills are rusty from lack of practice, and they are unprepared and ill-equipped. The inactive, whining children whose flames all entertain and delight the readers of eham won't be allowed anywhere near our incident command post or EOC.
If the internet is the equivalent of mental masturbation, that is what ham radio has become.
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It is the young guys hobby too
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by KB3BYW on October 6, 2005
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For all the old men out there who hate the ARRL for trying and succeeding reducing the standards, deal with it. It might be hard to cope with the fact the ham radio is dieing a slow and painful death as we fight with each other over what the standards should and should not be. The FCC will sell our frequencies to the highest bidder because they don’t care about us at all. The old guys out there have to understand that. I’m 22 years old a relatively young ham in the ham community I have never upgraded my license because of CW. I have tried and still trying to learn Morse code, I really don’t care about it to learn it. CW is one of how many modes out there but you have to learn if you want HF that is just ridiculous. I don’t want to see this hobby destroyed by the old man mentality so let it go. The standards have to be reduced if they are not the hobby is done for, but too many old guys don’t care, they will be dead before the hobby is gone. I don’t want old guys making my bed for me. I want there to be two tests for each license class, a hard theory test with out CW and an easier theory test with CW. Like I said CW is stupid and only one of how many modes and operation of ham radio, why test only one?
On the topic of ham operators being useless in communication emergencies, that simply ridiculous. In this age very few people other than hams, and dare I say it CB operators and free banders know how to setup wireless communications. I have three buddies who are in the Army and do communications; they don’t know a thing about wireless communications. I asked them several questions about what they do and there setups, they answer “I don’t know”; “we just listen and talk.” That was the extent of the tour in Iraq as well as running CAT 5. The idea that the military is going to sent up communication in the event of an emergency is frightening. The feds can’t make a bowl of cereal without someone pouring the milk in for them.
W6TH settle down with the young dumb generation talk. I agree with most of the thing you say but as I mentioned above you want to kill my hobby not yours. Some people in this generation are not dumb and I think I am quit informed and knowledgeable about this country and how it was founded.
I agree that the ARRL is useless and ran by a bunch of morons but no one wants to step up to the plate and reorganize the ARRL or create an alternative organization.
The bottom line is Ham radio operators have to come together some where in the middle and fight for the hobby the ARRL is not going to do it. There might be over 650,000 (W6TH) but how many of the really care about this hobby 25 percent? Ham radio operators are not respected any more in today society, computers, cell phones and cheap landline communication, turned use from heroes and pioneers of yesteryear to weird antenna goofballs. Some of the old guys out there have to realize we are ANTENNA GOOFBALLS, and not respected for what we know and do.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6EM on October 6, 2005
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Wow. Lots of rants and exchanges.
The ARRL did not hit a home run. It struck out, quite frankly, in both testimonies before Congress. And, by not showing up at the FCC monthly meeting on September 15, which was widely advertised as a Katrina critique. And they heard about it in plenty of time if from no one else but me.
Well, self-flagulation didn't do a THING to address the need for pre-emption of CC&Rs. Telling Congress that ham radio worked and saved the day didn't warn them that in a decade or so, there won't be but a few of us around in homes without antenna prohibitions.
So, why didn't they say something? Now, they tell us for the third time, to write our Representatives and ask for co sponsorship of Israel's PRB Bill. I did that last year. My debutante-Representative ignored me then, so why do it again......?
Do the President, Chief Executive and Chief Operating Officer of the ARRL all think that amateur radio can support future emergency communications needs via a few distributed mobiles? I don't know about you, but the thought of sitting in my car for 12 hours trying to hear and be heard into an affected area a thousand miles away isn't a particularly practical approach from either a hardware or operational perspective. Especially when the stations in the area would likely be low power mobiles as well.
The best chance in maybe a decade to use the submission of written testimony before two different committees and in front of the FCC to the advantage of the service and all said was about "how great we were."
What a hose job!!!
So, why didn't the League speak up? Is it because Israel's Bill hadn't yet been reintroduced? Even if it hadn't been, at least those Committees should have heard about the need for effective HF coverage via reasonable antennas at our homes.
All former introductions of Israel's Bill sat in the House Energy and Commerce Committee and died there. So the ARRL stands in front of the very Committee where Israel's former Bills died and says NOTHING about the need for CC&R pre-emption?
Give me a break...
Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL
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RE: It is the young guys hobby too
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by K5FZ on October 7, 2005
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To KB3BYW
Ross,
Do you really think that the "old men" of the hobby are trying to kill it for YOU?
I've got news for you, until we are all dead and gone, it is still our hobby.
As hard as this might be for you to understand, we have a longer view of the hobby (and the world) than you do.
What we see is a great hobby that a person had to work hard to get into, being down graded to glorified CB.
That which you have to expend great effort to get, is worth a great deal to you. That which you have to expend little effort to get is worth less to you.
The effort to become a ham has been reduced over and over again, in the past years, starting with Dick Bash and his published question pool.
The hobby that we could have left you, was worth much, because it took much effort to obtain...unfortunately the hobby that we WILL leave to you will be worthless, because it will take nothing to obtain.
You see, the short view that you take, is that you want something for nothing, or at best, for very little effort...shortly what you will have is nothing.
I noticed today on the product review section 0f Eham, a Tech reviewing a 5000 watt export only Commander amplifier.
I wonder where he is using that...
He is just waiting in the wings to put it on the ham bands instead of CB,
or maybe he is not waiting....
another great future ham, brought to you by the dumbing down of ham radio...
in the interest of bigger numbers...
He like you is waiting instead of working.
Good luck with the hobby, it WAS a great one, full of great people...
73,
Rich
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RE: It is the young guys hobby too
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by K1DA on October 7, 2005
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AH AH cain't learn the code? Just How hard is it to learn 5 w p m
?
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RE: It is the young guys hobby too
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by NI0C on October 7, 2005
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" I want there to be two tests for each license class, a hard theory test with out CW and an easier theory test with CW. Like I said CW is stupid and only one of how many modes and operation of ham radio, why test only one?"
Nobody really cares what kind of test that you "want." You're stuck with the tests that exist now-- so deal with that.
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RE: It is the young guys hobby too
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by W9WHE-II on October 7, 2005
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If only FCC had fully implemented ARRL's "dumbing down" proposal and given HF priveleges to thousands of hams that have not demomnstrated the abillity to understand and use HF. Those hams could have:
1) Diverted Katrina to Cuba;
2) Saved Millions of lives; and
3) Prevented $$ Billions in property damage.
Pity FCC is too stupid to recognize ARRL's infinite wisdom. Pity more than 75% of licensed hams are also too stupid to appriciate ARRL's keen insight and effective influence on FCC. After all, ARRL was successful in getting the spectrum and antenna bills passed, defending 220 Mhz, & defeating BPL. My goodness, ARRL is so effective in washington, that most goivernment officials won't even talk to us!
W9WHE
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by N0GV on October 7, 2005
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Hi folks -- the ARRL is good but it is not going to be successful without our work at the grassroots level.
My neighbors here in Miami are aware that I can and will provide the following services for them in an emergency:
1) Get their neglected Generators working SAFELY.
2) Get them communication if and when they NEED such.
3) Help pick up the debris and garbage associated with a storm.
4) Protect them (and they protect me) in the event of a "problem" in the neighborhood.
My being a HAM is known but does not become important until I ask them to please support the bill in congress to protect ham radio... they then weigh the usefulness of my services and hobby and make phone calls/write letters etc....
The ARRL can get a bill sponsored but it is the folks like us who ask our teammembers (neighbors) for support who will get it passed.....
FWIW...
Grover Larkins
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by N0GV on October 7, 2005
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Hi folks -- the ARRL is good but it is not going to be successful without our work at the grassroots level.
My neighbors here in Miami are aware that I can and will provide the following services for them in an emergency:
1) Get their neglected Generators working SAFELY.
2) Get them communication if and when they NEED such.
3) Help pick up the debris and garbage associated with a storm.
4) Protect them (and they protect me) in the event of a "problem" in the neighborhood.
My being a HAM is known but does not become important until I ask them to please support the bill in congress to protect ham radio... they then weigh the usefulness of my services and hobby and make phone calls/write letters etc....
The ARRL can get a bill sponsored but it is the folks like us who ask our teammembers (neighbors) for support who will get it passed.....
FWIW...
Grover Larkins
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RE: It is the young guys hobby too
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by WR8D on October 8, 2005
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Ref KB3BYW: 30 years ago i was your age. One person i looked up to in my community was a ham operator. We had the worse flood in over a hundred and fifty years and this place was washed off the map. The military came in and came to the ham for help. It always happens. I remember him burning out his 3-500z's from full bore traffic handling and they brought new ones to him. The hams are always there we come out of the wood work sooner or later and some times we get noticed most times we do our thing to help and never get mentioned. The ones that bitch always about not getting any mention are the dumbass ones with the flashing lights on their hats and five ht's on their belts and maybe a jacket with nice little patches so somebody may think they're important who needs em? You seem to be a nice fellow so i'll try to speak with you about this old man stuff. Honestly its not that i did 20wpm and you can't learn code at all. Believe me! Its not that i had to do a harder test and all this crap you see and hear. The standards have been lowered so much the honest to goodness dregs of the earth are becoming hams. I've almost come to blows with a few individuals that tried to take over my two meter machines and had to call in the fcc to ban them. This is the "younger" generation. They came off cb went to extra class in six months, got on 2 meters and never used their ham calls. They used cb handles, cussed, qrmed the machines by playing music and i could write a book about my experiance. This is going on in many parts of the country. Now don't get me wrong, hams are not born with a silver spoon in their mouths and there's been weirdo's on the bands since amateur radio came into being. Riley will tell you most of his complaints are against older advance and extra class op's but there's just enough of these new folks with the above kinds of attitudes to make many of us dread to see a new upgrade come to the ham ranks. I'm being honest with you. I know a guy that came to a ve test session with a code waiver back years ago. We all got pissed over that one. Everyone said just another dumbass finding an easy way out. Well this ole boy had a hearing problem and just could not hear a 500hz tone. He found himself a rig that lets him vari the pitch of the received cw tone and man he loves cw now. He can talk to you in person and do a cw qso in his head at over 40wpm at the same time. Examples like this is what makes it hard for most of us to understand when someone says i can't learn the code. Most of us that have been around the hobby for a while know a few people like the above mentioned one and that's what causes all the fuss when someone refuses to even try to learn cw. Then my best explaination for the so called old man attitude is lots of us have had experiances with newbies like i had here and then you end up with this split in the ranks. I honestly got to the point i dreaded to hear anyone new with a KG call. I thought most of them were crazier than hell and nothing but freebanding loony cbers with a ham license. To make matters worse they can come off cb with no knowledge of radio and be an extra class license holder in a few months and then they're loose on the bands. I hope after reading this you can understand why many of us are getting out spoken about this. I'll be the first to admit we should of been able to find a way to prevent what has happened but for example here we could not elmer these guys. We tried to help them in a kind manner. We'd talk to them, bring them into our homes and be kind and hot harsh at all. Crap i got cussed and was told they knew more about radio than i did. One new extra is still trying to use his moonraker on 80 meters. There's another just like him living about a half mile down the road from him and they think they're burning up the world. They can talk to each other and the locals and thats it. Well guess i've rambled on enough, i hope you can understand from what i've said just why many of us dread to see the requirements for a license reduced any more. Another thing too is you just will not see many of us speaking out on these threads. Who wants to be flamed and called names by these weirdo's but thats just the way the internet is. This little screen allows them to say things they'd never dare say to a 250 pound redneck like me eyeball to eyeball. Get on the bands avoid the weirdo's. Try all the modes and make new friends. Don't get on there saying i'm a nocode this or i'm a extralite. Just get on make contacts and have a good time leave all the bitching to the bottom feeders. 73 John WR8D
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K1DA
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by K4RAF on October 8, 2005
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I feel your frustration over the bill & its' handling by the "officials". I think your experience underlies the overall attitude the ARRL has toward "freeloaders" & "outsiders". Then the same people hire another employee to bolster "membership issues"? She is a nice looking woman but clueless about her future!
Notice that the resident company man didn't show up to tell you you're wrong in your perception.
When will the rest ever learn?
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W4LTX on October 8, 2005
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This is an interesting topic. As a staff worker for a Congressman, it has been frustrating to me over the lack of personal contact in our office from the ARRL. We have had several Maryland Amateurs come in and request support for bills.
I totally agree with the comments that having a bunch of cosponsors does not make a bill go anywhere. You have to get to the telecom committee or sub-cimmittee chairman and ranking minority committee member to get them to agree to move the legislation.
Writing, faxing, or calling a Members office usually only gets you a form letter reply. It is much better to appear in person.
Some time back my letter to the ARRL appeared in QST. In it I pointed out the impact fire fighters had on Congress when they "stormed" the halls, in uniform, and in great numbers.
Amateur Radio operators should organize and do the same. Such an event should make certain Congress is in session and be early in the year when budget and legislative agendas are being formed.
Gaining the support of other organizations is also very important. These would include well know organizations such as the Salvation Army, The American Red Cross, and , yes, even FEMA.
I welcome comments. My emails are pudgeforrester@wmconnect.com and also pudge.forrester@mail.house.gov
73's
Pudge, W4LTX
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6EM on October 8, 2005
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W4LTX/Pudge:
Thanks again, Pudge, for your posting and insight.
ARRL should have asked you for input prior to preparing their testimonies or, at least a chance to review them before they were presented. But, I guess I'm not surprised that they didn't.
73,
Lee
W6EM
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by K0SSI on October 8, 2005
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I have been an ARRL member off and on for years and they STILL get a vote of "No Confidence" from me!
I am presently a member! Pretty expensive QST subscription!
Bill
KØSSI
Colorado D-3 AEC
Mesa County & Colorado State R.A.C.E.S.
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RE: What a waste:
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by KILOWATT on October 8, 2005
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WR8D and K4JF, Thanks for your support and understanding.
I truly love radio communications. I don't care if it's ham or C.B. I just enjoy the radio hobby to its fullest. In my defense, I don't live in my parent's garage, I have a wife and I've had a career as an electrician for the past twenty years. I realize that most people expect that when someone has a love of radio like I do, they must be some kind of geek. hihi! I'm also a biker and no one that knows me considers me to be a "geek". I've just had a love affair with radio communiations ever since I was a child, when I sat on my father's lap whilst he changed coils in his Knight Radio in order to change bands.
Growing up in the 60's and 70's in a very small southern town, amateur radio was the only way in which to expand one's horizons. Because of my dad, I developed a love of radio at a very early age and I've been hooked ever since.
I just get a little disheartened whenever I see "the boys" fighting. I suppose that's my own naivete' and no else's problem. My apologies.
Kilowatt
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RE: ARRL Strikes Out Before Congress
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by W6EM on October 9, 2005
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On at least two occasions, I suggested to Jim Hainey, our ARRL President, that he mozey on over to Arlington or Fort Worth, with a few of his fellow local Dallas area hams and pay the Hon. Joe Barton (R) Tex. a visit. Why? Joe is chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee. The very committee where Israel's (ARRL's) PRB-1 Bill has died in three prior Congresses. And, the Committee that oversees the FCC and telecommunications law.
The response from Jim: Zero. Nothing. Now, why?
Too simple and too effective to overlook, friends.
And, now we have the failure before the E&C Committee to say ANYTHING about not being able to save the day in future disasters with the attrition of effective HF antennas, thanks to CC&Rs.
Therefore, I have concluded that 1) The ARRL's motives are to open the floodgates to generate new membership revenue; and 2) To placate the DX lobby's vociferous complaints about all of the added QRM on HF by purposely falling on their faces with respect to CC&R pre-emption so that most of those new hams, along with many of us, won't be able to have effective HF antennas.
So, by "appearing" to be anti-CC&Rs via the three time loser PRB-1 Bill, they placate those of us who expect them to fight for the very existence of amateur radio. But really, they aren't fighting CC&Rs effectively at all. Probably at the behest of DXers. BTW, they are MAJOR cash contributors to the ARRL. Does this sound a bit like the DXer-clique-inspired Incentive Licensing fiasco of the '60's?
So, to those of us who really want the CC&R problem to be taken care of, we will need the help of hams who know the legislative ropes, as Pudge, W4LTX does. Don't count on the ARRL. After all, when's the last time, besides following Katrina, that the ARRL was asked by the House Energy and Commerce Committee to testify before it on anything to do with telecommunications? Probably at least 10 to 20 years ago. I've been around for quite a while, and I can't remember when.
They had a golden opportunity and blew it. And, I sure think it was done on purpose. Don't take my word for it, go to their website and read their prepared, written testimony.
73,
Lee
W6EM
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RE: K1DA
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by W1RFI on October 9, 2005
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> Notice that the resident company man didn't show up
> to tell you you're wrong in your perception.
I think you mean me, RAF, but that's been explained ad nauseum to you here, and you choose not to get it so you can say things like the above... Sounds good echoing from the soapbox, though, eh? :-)
I haven't posted in this thread because I am personally not knowledgeable about the subject here.
Unlike some here who can blather as if they ARE knowledgeable about everything, ignoring every mistake they make along the way, I try to post only where I can offer something useful to the discussion.
Ed Hare, W1RFI
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RE: Re; " the arrl does not represent us &quo
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by W6EM on October 9, 2005
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KF6IIU Says: "I am sure you anti-ARRL cranks make a good impression when you show up in Washington with a 2 inch gap between your T-shirt and pants and your rubber ducky mounted on top of your hard hat.
Congressional lobbying is a specialized, labor intensive, and unfortunate fact of life. Without it other interests will grab our spectrum faster than free donuts at a hamfest.
There is a lot to criticize the ARRL about but their existence as our poltical "muscle" is not one of them."
While I want to thank you for your motivating piece, I am by no means a 'propeller head.' :-) I've never donned a GI helmet or aluminum hard-hat with an antenna on top. Although, in 1964, I watched as a friend became the first 2M pedestrian mobile with his Twoer, dynamotor, and motorcycle battery on a back pack connected to the antenna atop his flack hat.
Lobbying? Whoever's supposedly doing that for the ARRL doesn't deserve a passing grade. Or a paycheck. A miserable failure.
Now, the ARRL has "political muscle"? Nah, more like a skeleton with atrophied muscles. While on the surface, invitations to testify before Congress following Katrina appear significant, remember, it was the actions of thousands of amateurs in Katrina's aftermath that got them those invitations. Especially those affiliated with the Salvation Army, Southern Baptist Disaster Relief, and the Red Cross.
If all that muscle existed before, why hasn't the ARRL been before Congress over BPL, the soon-to-be four-time-loser PRB-1 Bill, Spectrum Protection, and other communications legislation hearings or investigations? And, as I'm lathered-up about, why was all that "muscle" only used for boasting and not what is needed from the Congress to ensure that amateur radio will be there as an effective system for future disasters?
The ARRL does a good job in many areas, but not this one. Time for some ARRL Impeachment Hearings.
73,
Lee
W6EM
Bradenton, FL
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RE: ARRL DOES NOT REPRESENT US
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by K4JF on October 9, 2005
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<There are issues that they back that I agree with. There just are enough that gall me to keep me out.>
The unanswered question is: Why do you not want to change those things that "gall" you?
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RE: K1DA
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by W6EM on October 9, 2005
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W1RFI Says: "Unlike some here who can blather as if they ARE knowledgeable about everything, ignoring every mistake they make along the way, I try to post only where I can offer something useful to the discussion..."
Hi, Ed. Assuming your comment applies to me, at least in-part, rest assured that what I'm not knowledgeable about, concerning the subject here, is because the ARRL hasn't told us more. I don't like to ass-u-me, but, at times, actions (or the lack thereof) speak much louder than superficial verbage.
I'll admit I've made a few mistakes along the way. Starting with my Application for Review of the denial of the League's Petition for Reonsideration on CC&R pre-emption in the OTARD regulation back quite a few years. I found the League's extensive publicity of my failed attempt that explained what I had in mind rather insulting. Especially sans anyone from the League bothering to ask me personally what my intentions were before going to press with my supposed intentions and motivations. But, that's water under the bridge, as it were. That experience taught me something. Bill Pasternak of Newsline, however, did find my phone number and my email address (from QRZ).
The ARRL leadership should remember that, as members, we are both customers and owners. And, we are capable of reading things besides QST and ARRL Bulletins. And, aren't just a herd of sheep.
73,
Lee
W6EM
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RE: K1DA
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by KC8VWM on October 10, 2005
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In response to Lee, W6EM,
...Baaaah ...Baaaaahhhhh.
:)
Gee, is it just me that is getting this genral feeing that the majority of people in general are PO'ed at the ARRL lately...
I kinda feel bad for that new "membership relations" person the ARRL just hired. I am suspecting she will have a boatload of problems and complaints on her hands. I would probobly be forced into a postion to throw up my arms and leave the building in a period of approx. 1 weeks time.
On another note, I relate to where Kilowatt is coming from in his earlier comments.
73 Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: K1DA
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by K4JF on October 11, 2005
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<Gee, is it just me that is getting this genral feeing that the majority of people in general are PO'ed at the ARRL lately...>
Nope. It's just a few on these 2 websites. You don't hear that cr*p on the air, you don't hear it at hamfests, you don't hear it at club meetings.
A few people have the notion that if the ARRL isn't doing exactly what they want, when they want, and the >bleep< with the rest of the ham population, then the ARRL is evil. And they use this as their sounding board. And some of them like to put down ham radio in general, too.
Don't judge the whole by this highly unrepresentative sample. While some people here have good, solid reasons for some of the things they say, others are simply going to be against any organization, whatever it does.
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RE: K1DA
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by W6EM on October 11, 2005
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Free speech is tough for some people to look at or listen to if they don't agree.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KI4GPX on October 12, 2005
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NA4IT, good job on your post. You make some excellent points. Glad to see that *some* of the folks on eHam are not constanting suffering from diarrhea of the mouth and stenosis of the brain.
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Arrl struck out with many!
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by WR8D on October 12, 2005
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Gee guys we've beat this horse to death. Come to understand. There are many of us that feel the arrl has sold us out. Many feel they are only interested in what ever it takes to increase their membership no matter what it costs our wonderful hobby. Where in the world some of you guys get all this other crap you read into why so many have dropped their membership is beyond me. Another damned thing too, this is Americia. We are free to be open minded and make up our own minds on any issue "period". Its clear here on the net if any person disagrees for what ever reason with anything at all about the league then we're stamped to be some kind of a degenerate. Not a proper amateur operator. Well face facts people. I'm just a normal working man and i was let down by the league many years ago. Like i said earlier i tried the proper channels and all that with my problems and got awarded with arrogance etc when i finally did get through. None of my calls were ever answered or my emails. Not being a total idiot i finally decided to withdraw my support because it was perfectly clear to me they did not give a flying hoot about anyones opinion etc they only wanted the cash. Now for you stuffy folks that do all this>>>> and laugh at the spelling mistakes, i just put in 11 hours in a caterpiller D11R-CD and hope i don't have so much "dozer-lag" that you can't understand my simple reck neck Americian spell'n. Some of us had to go to work to make the lights burn for the rest of you out there. Get on the bands and have a good time and save your money. The arrl already has their pot full. Cq is a much better mag too. 73 WR8D
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KD5QHV on October 13, 2005
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Hi Bob,
You can check me out, but I suggest you locate the CQ magazine, I can't tell you which issue it was, but read the article on how ham radio came to the aid of the Feds when they were trying to recover shuttle remains from East Texas 2 1/2 years ago. The big city radios weren't going to make it in that environment and ham radio was there to make the recovery a reality.
73
Bernie
KD5QHV
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RE: K1DA
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by K4RAF on October 13, 2005
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"You don't hear that cr*p on the air, you don't hear it at hamfests, you don't hear it at club meetings."
You might need a new antenna or perhaps a hearing aid.
80% don't "belong" so your chances of not hearing it is about 4:1. The ARRL's antics are a regular topic on 40 & 75 meters.
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RE: K1DA
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by W6EM on October 13, 2005
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The ARRL's trying to change the subject..... Their latest rant (as of today) is to *demand* that the FCC shut down Manassass, VA's BPL system.
I still can't believe they stood in front of the Energy and Comnmerce Committee and said nothing about the PRB-1 Bill or even BPL. Everything's wonderful and we have no needs. We're in the Garden of Eden.
Like somebody's already said, QST's an awfully expensive magazine.
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RE: K1DA
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by ICOMTECH66 on October 13, 2005
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"You don't hear that cr*p on the air, you don't hear it at hamfests, you don't hear it at club meetings."
Obviously you're not only deaf but dumb.....
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress but loses the game!
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by KC7ATO on October 14, 2005
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I have just read all the posts on the structure of the ARRL and am amazed none of the "resident experts" have a clue about what form the ARRL operates under. Quite simply it is an "Oligarchical" form of government that poses as a "Constitutional Democracy". The "powers that be" do not feel compelled to listen to the "unwashed masses" as they see themselves as far more informed and always acting "in the best interests" of the ARRL rather than "the best interests of AR and it's members". It is not just the elected ARRL officers that can be voted out, however, permanent staff "group think" is even a more difficult problem. The basic problem IMHO is they just don't know how to keep their customers happy.
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress but loses the g
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by W6EM on October 14, 2005
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And, I would argue that they *do* know how to keep some of their customers happy. Like, perhaps, the deep-pocket DX-clique (that doesn't want a slew of newbies on HF).
After all, CC&Rs ARE an effective deterrent.
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RE: Shunning ARRL
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by W9WHE-II on October 17, 2005
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KC8VWM writes:
"Gee, is it just me that is getting this genral feeing that the majority of people in general are PO'ed at the ARRL lately..."
Uhhh...yea!
Only about 20 percent of licensed hams are ARRL members. There are SO MANY reasons that the vast majority of hams shun ARRL membership.
W9WHE
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ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W7ND on October 18, 2005
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If the ARRL does not agree with your point of view, cancel your membership and act like the world is coming to an end. Assume that all who do not agree with you are either stupid or ignorant.
All of these posts that start with "The ARRL...." Well, just who in the hell is "The ARRL.”? If you're a member, you get to vote for your elected ARRL office holders. The Board of Directors can then fire the General Manager. The General Manager can then fire employees. If you're not a member, you don't have an official say into League affairs. Gee, what a concept. Wonder who thought up such a concept? Un-American if you ask me.
If you are a member, vote, and your guy/gal doesn't get elected, oh well. If you did not run or support a member to run who represents your point of view, too bad. Better luck next time. That's the way it works. End of story. Live with it or get like-minded people together and get involved. If you can't get somebody elected who supports your points of view, then you are in the minority. Deal with that reality.
(How many directors and vice-directors run unopposed? Why are they unopposed?)
Or write your own letters to congress and comments to the FCC. Start your own amateur radio organization. Oh hell no. It's easier to bash the ARRL on the intestinalnet. Just stock up on the TP because the diarrhea of the keyboard never ends.
This pro vs. con ARRL crap has been going on since I got into the hobby in 1967. My guess is it was going on decades before then. Bunch of nattering nabobs of negativism and misdirected energy, even back then.
It's enough to make a seagull puke and fall off the ass end of the garbage truck.
At least Wayne Green was entertaining......
As to where I stand:
E-link, etc. is not ham radio. A "shack on a belt" is not a shack. The testing is not near as stringent as before. We have hams coming out now that do not know what a PL-259 is, much less how to solder one. Memorizing the answers to a question pool does not prove anything other than you have a good memory. CW is a good thing. AM is even better. You're not a real ham if you haven't been knocked on your ass from the HV in an old tube xmtr. And with all of that, the ARRL represents me and I have gotten more than my money's worth from the League over the last 38 years, including personal answers to my tech questions from W1RFI. Thanks Ed.
That should stir things up so......
Flame away. Nomex suit is in place.
73 to all,
Frank, W7ND
"Join DAMM--Drunks Against Mad Mothers"
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by KD5SHW on November 29, 2005
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I don't get it. Why is everyone pissed off again? This isn't the amateur radio personality that made me interested in joining. Can someone sum up why they are pissed off without insults?
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RE: ARRL Hits Home Run in Congress
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by W6EM on November 30, 2005
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OK. I'm not so dissatisfied as to end my membership. On balance, the ARRL does more good for us than any other organization. (Nothing else out there for US amateurs that is reputable)
What I find particularly bothersome is what I feel is a prejudicial position that exists on every issue. Sort of like, well, what a dictatorial form of government might display. When's the last time the ARRL surveyed its membership or all interested amateurs on any topic? Only one, that I'm aware of. It sought comments on the bandwidth issue. To which, I and many others responded.
My reason for commenting on this thread should be self explanatory. Since the League employs a very capable general counsel and lobbying firm in Washington, DC, they certainly have the advice and counsel with respect to how to prepare and present written testimony when asked to testify before Congress. And, they were. In front of the very Committee that sat on and killed the Spectrum Protection and PRB-1 Bills in the last 3 Congresses. And, the Committee had this year's versions in their in-basket as well, at the time the ARRL testified.
Instead of including a word or two about those issues potentially affecting the future emergency response capability of the amateur radio service to do what it did in Katrina's wake, they said NOTHING. An opportunity to stand before a Committee hearing is a privileged invitation. It only happens very infrequently. And, their experts know that very well.
Not once in the last 5 to 6 years (besides Katrina) has ARRL been there standing before any Congressional Committees. And, they probably won't be asked back anytime soon. Jim Hainey's photo-ops with a Congressman or two aren't even in the same league.
So, that's why I'm a little bugged, to put it mildly.
We members have a reasonable expectation that our dues pay for expert advice, knowledge and leadership to not let opportunities such as that one come and go without proper performance.
So, it begs the question *why* they didn't point out the fact that CC&Rs are killing the ARS and its future ability to respond to emergencies. Or, that commercial interests want to use part of our allocated spectrum for profitable activities. Sure, some have said that "it wasn't on-topic." Sorry, but, folks, it was. ARRL said boldly: "We'll do it again and again." Is it off topic to include a cautionary mention of obstacles to the future effectiveness or even the existence of the amateur radio service, if not point out the Bills themselves?
Are their interests among us who don't want more hams on already crowded HF spectrum? And, in fact, would like to see fewer competitors in contest activity? Interests that, as a group or groups, contribute additional monies into the ARRL coffers than the average member?
I'll let you think about that one. I have for quite some time. Sadly, I think CC&Rs are here to stay. And, so are spectrum thieves. By design.
73,
Lee
W6EM
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