Should I Save this Radio?
jeff (N3JBH)
on
October 30, 2005
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Should I save this radio?
I have recently read question on the Elmers section of the grand and glorious web site.
A gentleman had asked should he restore his old Hallicrafters receiver? Well did answer his question for him here is what I said. Hello Jim well you have good question here. The Hallicrafters was a good radio in its day. And would still make a great one to listen to. But will it compete with new receivers. Honestly not likely. In the past 50 years a lot has improved in radio's better filtering lower noise floor's all sorts of things. Would I restore it? Your darned right I would. But then I love the older gear. Not that it is any better then the new gear because it is not. But because it has that certain feel and look of what I remember radios looking like as a child in days.
So Jim in my humble opinion on this subject redo it replace all the black beauty caps clean it up. And enjoy it like it was meant to be enjoyed. But just don't ask it to beat any new radios in performance, as chances are it never will. But what it will do is give you some that old time warmth and sound's of yesteryear. That the new radios will never do. Is it a contester's rig never? Is it a trip down memory lane? -- Your darned right it will be!
Now after setting back and realizing my spelling and grammar is horrible I did realize I had a love for the older gear. Folks I really rather not call them boat anchors. They're not the best for tossing overboard.
But what got me was the fact I read and see a lot guys saying hey get a new rig them old ones just don't do it anymore. Hogwash I say these old classics are a great way to relive your yesteryears if you're an old dodger like me. They will reward you with a romance and song that no new radio will ever be able to provide. They even had lettering on them us old guys could read instead having a paper showing you what each knob and button did.
What about that smell yes the had a smell a sweet pleasant smell from there tube hearts warming up? -- Aw yes the grand ole days of radio. Do I miss them? Your darned right I do! Sadly time and circumstances far beyond my control have limited me from probably ever having on these wonderful stations. But by god if I were to have my dream come true a Hammarlund HQ-170-C and the Johnson Viking II would really be it.
So folks don't ask should I save this rig? The answer is always yes. There like a fine vintage wine folks. And till they're all gone you'll never know what you could have enjoyed. Well I finally like to thank you so very kindly for allowing me to somewhat take a dream down memory lane and answer that question should I save this. And I just hope you'll all take my advice and save that classic radio use it and enjoy the way radio use to be.
73 and God bless. Jeff/n3jbh
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by AI2IA on October 30, 2005
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Just like with automobiles, in amateur radio there is a fork in the road. As a ham you can look back, or you can look ahead. A rare few can do both.
I had some old Hallicrafter stuff, and I respected it enough not to toss it. I put it up for sale - not for the money, but just to put it in the hands of someone who would enjoy looking back.
Honestly, though, I can't say that looking back is amateur radio. It is hobby that you can do along side amateur radio. I believe that the ideal is for young hams to collect old radios and relish the past, and old hams to go with the latest and the greatest to keep their minds young and flexible, and more power (that's a pun) to those who can do both!
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by WA3IRJ on October 30, 2005
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I think you said it right.
I have come back to radio after a long hiatus. But I still keep and maintain some of the older gear that I used in a prior era. Call it a feel good...call it nostalgia. But I do. I have to admit..the new rigs do just about everything better...
But there is something about those warm glowing tubes.
With that said...I come back to reality. Today I was on 20 meters with one of my boatanchors. Just helping some
of the Europen DX stations with some points. There it became very apparent how far radio has come. I was heard on the first or second call, most of the time...but wow...I could have covered twice the stations , if I did not have to retune the finals so much !!! Gotta give the guys in that era credit..
Woking a contest with one of the older rigs is a workout. But I still feel the older equip. should be kept around..if nothing else, just to remind us how far we have come.
73
JohnB
KB3lxy
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by KA9INV on October 30, 2005
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I love listening to my old Knight receiver. I'm 20 years old and have a Kenwood TS-850SAT which obviously blows the Knight out of the water, but I still love my old tube receiver. Of course, that doesn't do the job for amateur use, so the TS-820S has to do if I feel like going old-school - I'm quite certain that the 820 would sound better on the air than the 850. I don't know what it is about tubes... I'm a guitar player as well, and tube amps absolutely blow away solid-state ones. I think the same principle holds in amateur radio from what I've heard on the air.
I'm not sure how I can be nostalgic having never been in the era of Hallicrafters and the like, but I still love operating them.
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by K8MHZ on October 30, 2005
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I say if it is salvageable, save it.
I was given a Swan 350 in order to get on the air after I got my General ticket. Before I got it to transmit, I got an Icom 735 and teamed it up with the AT-150 auto tuner. Although I never got the bugs out of the 350 to get on the air, the recieve quality was phenomenal compared to the newer Icom. The audio was warm and dimensional while the audio with the Icom is rather flat. The transistorized rigs use contrast rather than presence to articulate the audio quality and it is very noticeable. I would compare the difference to a transistorized guitar amplifier versus a tubed Marshall head. For some reason nothing transistorized can compare to the warmth and dimensionality of a tubed rig.
The Swan will be passed on to someone else to get them on the air. As much as I appreciate the wonderful sound of the Swan, the ease of operation of the Icom and it's auto tuner makes the Icom my working rig. Had I had more room in the shack the Swan would be tended to an rendered operable, but alas, I have to deal with my restrictions.
My personal opinion is that nothing beats the sound of a tubed rig. And Hallicrafters was a respected name in that industry.
And they will never again come to be.
73,
Mark K8MHZ
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by WA3IRJ on October 30, 2005
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I have to agree again..
As my boat anchor station is that..
Swan 500cx, and a Mk-2 amp. I like it mostly for 40-75 meter rag chews. Amazing, the comliments I get on the audio, and the signal in general.
I think my fondness goes back to when I was a novice, about to take the general test. The Swans, and Drakes ...Halicrafters..etc were big money to a 10th grade student, in 1967-68. I think the Swan 350 sold for 500-600 range with power supply and mike, Kinda like 2500-3000 inb today money.
I had to cut a lot of lawns...still wound up with an Heath Apache..and the like. But, at least I was on the air. Eventually ended up with a SB301...still the Swans eluded me..LOL
JohnB
KB3lxy
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by WY3X on October 30, 2005
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Like some politician once said, if we forget history, we are doomed to relive it (or something along those lines). I maintain a modern shack with a Yaesu FT-847 and a Ten Tec Orion. I also maintain a mid-1980's Sunair set. On some shelves, I have a complete Collins set (which is currently for sale on eBay) and a complete Drake C-line which belonged to my elmer (which will never be sold as long as I'm alive). I've had WWII TCS-12 sets, old Hallicrafters and Hammarlund stuff, and even some -very- old breadboard gear. The new rigs are nice because they require little effort or knowledge to operate (somebody is going to argue with me here, but I'm speaking "comparitively"), but there's something about the smell of ol' wax caps warming up, seeing the warm glow of tungsten filaments, and basking in the warmth emanating from an old radio that just can _NOT_ be matched by the modern wonders.
I feel great personal pride when showing younger hams how to dip the plate and peak the load of the older tube gear. It's a type of familiar connection with our forefathers who bequeathed this wonderful hobby to us!
Sometimes I just sit and wonder- who might the tubes in these old radios have listened in on? Barry Goldwater? King Hussein of Jordan? Some of the QSL cards I possess from silent key estates date back to the 1930's. One was from a Nazi. Did this fellow in Germany, who my benefactor spoke with 75 years ago, take up arms and fire bullets at my father, who fought in the 10th Mountain Division in WWII? Did the person who originally owned these radios watch George Burns and Gracie Allen on TV? Ozzie and Harriett? Were they watching the news when Kennedy was shot, and take to the airwaves shortly afterwards to discuss the news with the world on amateur radio? Perhaps using the very tubes that are contained in these metal boxes of long ago? Was this microphone in use when the college students protesting the war in Vietnam were killed by our own national guard? Perhaps this radio was on the air when Apollo 11 landed on the moon! I can close my eyes and see the curls of smoke leaving the pipe bowl of the prior owner of the gear, evidenced by a light brown tinge on the gear that I know will become bright and silvery with a little effort on my part.
There's history in every old radio. Each and every one has a story to tell, if only we will just stop and listen.
New radios work great, and I hope that when I'm gone, and my radios are old, some young fellow will be staring at the front panels of my sets pondering the same thoughts that crossed my mind when I got into the hobby.
This is normally where I trash Echolink, but this time, just this once, I'm going to control my angst. How can one look at the history of radio and even THINK about Echolink? It just doesn't belong....
-KR4WM
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by W4CNG on October 30, 2005
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Yes. I am still looking for a HQ-100A, like the brand new one I had for my Novice station in 1961. No clock, but the Q-Multiplier worked wonders on CW. Left big knob was band, right knob was band-spread tuning. Will pass on the DX-40 with VFO on CW/AM. The HQ-100A was quite the really good receiver. I do have many solid-state Do-it-All rigs now, but you cannot get away from those that worked so well in the past.
Steve W4CNG
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by N6AJR on October 30, 2005
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I have had lots of oldies, and still have a swan 350, but it too will go down the road, I think my fav was a ft 101 zd, last and best of the 101 series..
I have had lots of the old recievers, and they are fun to play with, but I just ran out of room..
they are nice to play with, but I am currently doing dxing and contesting, so the tubes are only in the amps
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by KK7WN on October 30, 2005
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Radios like cars, houses, friendships, etc. have many different attributes. We keep them around for the package of benefits that these attributes offer.Some attributes gain value as time goes by and some lose value.In the case of radios, relative technical quality tends to lose value but positive memories may increase in value as time passes. I always wanted a Hallicrafter SX88 because my first exposure to Ham radio was through a Ham neighbor who had such a receiver. For its time, it was a top of the line piece of equipment. I finally acquired one by offering a high price to another Ham.I knew that it was technically inferior to a newer piece of equipment that I could purchase for the same price. However, it stimulated great personal memories and this was of significant value to me at the time. After using it for a time I realized that it should be shared with other Hams who would also like to have such an opportunity.After interviewing many other interested SX88 buyers, I resold it at a lower reasonable price to another Ham who shared my love of the radio and likewise felt that it should be passed around for others to enjoy.Some people pay for the enjoyment of an excellent meal,an excellent show, etc. In this case I paid for the "re-enjoyment" of an excellent memory and the opportunity to provide the same to another Ham.Old radios are more than out of date electronics!
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by DK3UZ on October 31, 2005
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For me part of the fun in Amateur Radio came back when and after a built myself a transceiver from a kit. But I got the real kick from restaurating and assembling a station like I couldn't afford when being freshly licensed. The latter station I now use daily, also in contests, and the former only for Topband and the WARC bands, which my vintage station doesn't have.
73, Eddi ._._.
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by N8WNH on October 31, 2005
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It is with fond memories that I remember my father (W8ABQ) and my mother (K8TIU) warming up their equipment at the home that I grew up in. It was a modest shack with the transmitter being a Heathkit Marauder and the receiver a Hammerlund HQ-180. To add a little extra punch a Loudenboomer MKII with an Eimac 3-400Z topped it all off into a Hornet Beam on a telescoping tilt over 60’ tower (fully extended). This was the amassed fortune of my fathers shack (a corner of their bedroom). I can remember him talking to all kinds of people all over the world with this equipment at different points in my life. When he was active in his late thirties to early forties he used to be quite active on 80 meters in Michigan with some friends on a folded dipole antenna. Many hours he enjoyed using this equipment.
It is also with depression that I remember the last time he used this equipment for the last time, not because he died, but because when he made his last QSO with this equipment that the person he was talking to complained about having to chase him up and down the band during the QSO. At that point my father had realized that the newer phase locked loop tuning and the newer digital VFO’s made using his old classic equipment a burden to others on the air and never powered it up again. This probably could have been corrected I am sure with some work on his part but I think that he did not feel like it was worth it. Putting kids through collage and getting ready for retirement was most likely a more important goal to him then, and everything he had was liquidated at that point.
My brother (K2UP) is now hoping to regain some of that lost nostalgia by getting my fathers old Loudenboomer MKII back and restoring it to use in his shack. I still have a good idea where it is and will try to get it back into my possession. This is the only piece
of my fathers collection that I feel is worth the effort. I would not want to risk giving any fellow ham operators carpal tunnel syndrome following me with my dad’s old transmitter on the air.
73
Tom
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by NI0C on October 31, 2005
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There are a lot of old classics worth saving-- I believe the Hallicrafters referred to in this article was the SX-101-- definitely worth saving and restoring (depending on condition, of course). However, there was also a lot of junk manufactured in the old days-- the SX-99, for example. Just because it is old doesn't mean it is worthy of restoration. Radios do not improve with age!
73,
Chuck NI0C
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by K0BG on October 31, 2005
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Nostalgia is a wonderful thing. It humbles you, it pleases you, it makes you cry, it makes you laugh, but most of all it makes you happy to be alive. If your nostalgia has to be touched, and stroked, then by all means rebuild it, restore it, whatever.
For me, the good old days weren't as good as I would like to remember them, mostly because it makes me feel old. So I'm happier to live in the present amongst my late-model toys, and use nostalgia as a reference to just how far we have come in just my life time.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by WA2DYA on October 31, 2005
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I have a Collins S Line, Heath SB-101 and Hallicrafters SX-100 here. My state of the artish radio is a TS-570.
The Kenwood has an edge with respect to stability, selectivity and dial readout accuracy. But I have never noticed a 'night vs day' difference in overall performance.
--- CHAS
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by W4LGH on October 31, 2005
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I have just finished restoring a pair of Drake Twins! R4B & T4XB pair that look like new and operate almost perfectly now. For that matter they are operating perfectly, just need to adjust the transmitter to be dead on freq with the receiver, they are a tad off.
I used them all weekend and made many contacts, especially with the QSO party going on. Did I need to do this, NO, but wanted to. Always wanted to own and operate a pair of Drakes and after 40 years, I now can.
Pictures of these beauties can be seen on my website... http://www.w4lgh.com ... its always fun to play with the older stuff. Anyone can buy a new radio, plug in an antenna and turn the power on.
RESTORE that old radio!!
73 de W4LGH - Alan
www.w4lgh.com
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by KC8VWM on October 31, 2005
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There's something about operating 85 lbs of heated military steel while feeling the warmth of 26 tubes glowing in your shack.
You flip on the switch ( I mean clunk, not click) and you start hearing the glass tubes crackling in thier steel tube shields as it warms up. A minute or two passes and you start hearing the faint background static suddenly boom in over the 12 inch speaker as your radio comes alive.
You first dial in WWV to check your dial accuracy and check for band propogation. You fiddle with a few more steel knobs (still cold to the touch) to make some minor adjustments - Ant. trimmer is set, filter is in, BFO is at 12 o'clock, and bandselector is tuned and ready.
Now you start your radio journey as you carefully watch the lighted dial and meters moving as you sweep your dial slowly across some HF spectrum. You listen carefully in hopes of hearing that elusive and rarest of signals from a distant land.
You suddenly realize you can smell a vintage dust like warmth eminating from the tubes when suddenly you faintly hear, Radio Bunia, Republic of Congo on 6828 khz. fading in and out of the static.
73 Charles - KC8VWM
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Should I Save this D-104?
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by WA6BFH on October 31, 2005
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I think that the decision point should be “how really cool” the radio looks with a D-104 sitting next to it. Or, how really out of place.
I mean like the real classic would be a Midland commercial “land mobile” radio in your car, with a D-104 connected to it (you get extra points for replacing the crystal microphone element {so it won’t get cooked in the heat of the car} with a $6.00 electret condenser microphone).
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by W6LAR on October 31, 2005
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Great article! My shack includes my first HW-101 that has been loveingly restored along with my newer gear, IC775DSP and Elecraft K2. Some days I come into the shack and fire up the HW-101 and enjoy the reports "Sounds great!) from my contacts. Old time gear (boat anchors) are just a part of the hobby as far as I am concerned. I love looking both ways. I've got a HT-37 on the shelf in fair condition awaiting the day I can tackle its restoration.
I just came back form a 2 week vacation where I picket up a beautiful Atwater Kent Model 20 Long Box TRF receiver along with a model H horn speaker. Once I had it home and fixed an open audio transformer it now sits on the sideboard in our kitchen and plays like it was new. I have a few other "old" Philco's and Zenith's sprinkled around the house and a good collection of odd tubes. The best part of all this is the love of my life ,Helen (KF6CHG), allows all this to find a place in our home. I hope your all as lucky as I am.
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by WB2WIK on October 31, 2005
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I no longer have room or time to devote to the old stuff, much as I'd like to. Probably will get back into it again in retirement one day.
In the interim, I fix up the "anchors" to a workable degree and loan them out or give them away to young new hams or prospective hams via the Boy Scouts organization locally, who has ham radio classes and incentive badges. Right now, I must have 20-30 pieces of gear out on "permanent loan" that way, rotating amongst the newbies and prospects. Receivers go to non-licensed kids, and transmitters or transceivers go to the ones with licenses.
Keeps the stuff in circulation without taking up space in my shack!
The stuff comes back a year or two later for repair, as it keeps breaking. No big deal until I run out of tubes or patience....
Definitely don't toss any of the old gear into the dumpster, it can almost always be made useful for somebody.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by WA0DTH on October 31, 2005
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I have some older tube type vintage gear.
Sure I use it for nostalgic reasons since I started in amateur radio in the boat anchor era.
But another reason is I appreciate the American Innovation and workmanship of those times.
Many boat anchor rigs are the American muscle of ham gear. A considerable amount of engineering both machanical and electrical went into many of these rigs.
No micro's or DSP to do the work then.
I use my vintage station for back up also to the newer solid state rig.
I would say hold on to the rig. Fix it up and enjoy.
Be careful of the higher voltages.
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by KB2FCV on October 31, 2005
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Very nice article! Although the era of tubes was way before my time, I got hooked due to the challenge, the romance and nostalgia of these great pieces of equipment. Of course, not all of the equipment was great, but each still had it's own charm.
Over the years I've collected and put together some nice stations. I finally completed my hallicrafters setup to the degree I want. It started off with the SX-101A, then an HT-32A, then a TO Keyer, then an SX-62A, and finally, the HT-33A. I've also collected some collins, heathkit and hammarlund.
There's no way the older gear will outperform newer gear, but that's not why I have the older stuff. I do own newer stuff, I've built a K2 and I have one or two other modern transceivers. The K2 is serves a different function entirely, and serves it well - it's a great rig for contesting and travelling. I keep mine in a pelican case. I've taken it camping a few times, but.. it doesn't glow. It doesn't crackle. There is no plate to adjust. It doesn't throw a light pattern up on the ceiling from the dial light shining through the vent holes.
So hang onto that old radio and keep it running! 73,
James KB2FCV
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by KA0GKT on October 31, 2005
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Boat anchors are just as big a part of amateur radio as the restoration of a '30-'31 Model A deluxe Roadster is to automotive enthusiasts.
Just as an auto enthusiast shouldn't expect to take their classic Model T or Model A onto the freeway at rush hour, or I-10 between Tucson and Phoenix where the drivers consider the 75 MPH speed limit as just a speed suggestion... :-O, expecting an old receiver to compete with newer incarnations in a pile-up or during a contest isn't realistic; however this does not mean that that old Hammarlund should just sit and collect dust; it doesn't mean that old Globe King shouldn't warm the old cold shack on a Winter afternoon for an AM or CW rag chew.
Still, just as there are some classic automobiles out there which can cruise along the interstate at 75 all day, there are some "Boat anchors" out there which can and do compete with the modern rigs.
Digital synthesis can be a noisy propisition reception-wise. Thermal noise from tubes and phase noise from a PLL circuit are the same in one respect, they are noise. It takes more "Fiddling" to tune a KWM-2 than it does a "Plug and Play" (Plug & Pray?) rig. The auto notch filter on some new DSP equipped rigs is very quick, the Waters rejection tuning takes a while and a bit of skill to master. The 30L-1 requires that you tune and load the output, the IC-PW1 doesn't. Since the 811A tubes in the 30L-1 have directly heated cathodes, both the old and new are ready for full output as soon as you switch from stand-by. Old takes some operator skill to operate, the new is plug and play.
Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing appliance operators in any way. The care and feeding of a hollow-state boat-anchor is different from rigs built in the last ten or fifteen years. It takes certain skills not needed in newer rigs.
Just as a person who learns to drive on an automobile with an automatic transmission has a hard time driving a car or truck with a stick, a person who learned to operate a newer rig can have problems with older transmitters which have outputs which must be tuned and loaded into the antenna. There is a learning curve when switching to older technologies.
So, if you have a new rig with all the automatic bells and whistles, good. You are on the air. If you happen to come across a boat-anchor and get bitten by the restoration bug, (my condolences...it is a terminal affliction) don't despair. There are still people out there who can help you. If you simply aren't interested in Boat Anchors, at least appreciate the time, money and expertise which went in to getting the old rig on the air in the same way you would appreciate that '55 Thunderbird down at the local Sonic for the Classic Cruise-in.
Hopefully I'll have the '65 Galaxie Rag-Top ready for next Summer complete with a Galaxy V MKII under the dash and a Hustler bumper mount.
73, C U Down the Log and the Road
DE KAØGKT/7
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by NI0C on October 31, 2005
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WB2WIK/6 said: "Definitely don't toss any of the old gear into the dumpster, it can almost always be made useful for somebody."
Personally, I'd rather see a Heath DX100 in a dumpster than to listen to its lousy chirps and clicks on the air.
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by N4UE on October 31, 2005
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This was a welcome and interesting discussion. Even though I have a room full of 'rice rockets', I still derive much enjoyment lighting off some of the boatanchors in my collection. Like many of the comments here, I bought these boatanchors because I always wanted one as a kid, but just could not afford them.
For me, half of the enjoyment with these old radios is restoring them. Hence my e-pay (er, e-bay) ID of "radiorestorations".
I have a nice RME 6900 that envokes memories of my Elmer, and my Uncle (W1BNO, SK). I also have a nice SX-101A, 'cause he one of these also.
I have a massive amount of Drake gear as well. I just love switching between all the BA stuff and the state-of-the-art Japaneese radios. The BAs do a great job in their own right. For example, my Drake TR4-CW has a sound all it's own as well as my pair of R4Bs.
E-bay is an excellent place to buy old stuff, especially stuff that 'has problems'. I really enjoy bringing one of the "unfixable" radios back to life.
(One R4B was practically free, because the seller said he was told it was "unfixable". It DID take me a LONG time to find the culprit, but I saved a classic from being parted out. In addition, the fix did not cost $ .01, since it turned out to be 2 broken wires in an IF can.....
Have FUN!!!
ron
N4UE
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by WA6BFH on October 31, 2005
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I could be found longing for a Swan T-600 and R-600.
Or maybe a World Radio Labs Galaxie GT-550!
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by WA0ZZG on October 31, 2005
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I now have the two radios, in my shack, I always
wanted. Both were restores. A Yaesu FT-1000D with
all filters, and a Kenwood TS-520, with the digital
display.
I still think the best guitar amp was the tube
version of the Fender Twin Reverb.
Dave WA0ZZG
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RE: Should I Save this Radio? YES!!!!!!!!
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by W4LGH on October 31, 2005
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Yes ,tubes do sound different then transistors.
Better? Not sure, I guess its a personal preference, as to which sound you like.
Hi-Z or Low-Z ,its all a matter of personal choice, but I do enjoy making a contact on my 40 yr old Drakes. Its all part of the hobbie, and again like most, I wasn't able to afford Drake equipment when I started out 40+ yrs ago. However I did dream, and look thru the catalogs wishing. These are all old memories from yester-year, something the newer guys can't relate to now, but will if they stay in the hobby. And yes I do have NEW gear, and love the ease and features, but there is something about the dial bulb and tube filiments reflecting off the ceiling.
73 and enjoy the Hobby!
de W4LGH - Alan
www.w4lgh.com
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RE: Should I Save this Radio? YES!!!!!!!!
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by WA2JJH on October 31, 2005
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Sounds like a nice winter project. Save it for sure.
You can always sell or give it away in the spring!
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RE: Should I Save this Radio? YES!!!!!!!!
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by WA6BFH on October 31, 2005
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It’s not a question of Hi-Z or Lo-Z; it’s a question of dynamic range. Vacuum tubes still have better signal amplification dynamic range than do solid state devices -- even FET’s
Of course if it becomes a trade of sensitivity at very high frequencies, say 300 MHz and higher, the tradeoff goes to FET’s.
The rest is just phase noise in the newer rugs!
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RE: Should I Save this Radio? YES!!!!!!!!
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by X-WB1AUW on October 31, 2005
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<I read and see a lot guys saying hey get a new rig them old ones just don't do it anymore>
Good advice for people getting their first rig.
Bob
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by W8JI on October 31, 2005
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I collect old radios because I miss the past. I miss the days when Hams spent time on the air in interesting technical conversations instead of sitting around the computer.
I miss the thrill of working a station a long distance away for the first time, and having hours long conversations with stations half way around the world, inseatd of RST,name, and goodbye.
I miss the time when we had a clear future, and when average people could get good jobs that allowed them the money and leisure time to enjoy radio and even to build things.
I keep thinking one more old radio is going to be that magic radio and make me feel as good as I felt about radio in the 60's or 70's.
73,
Tom
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Get Real
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by WPE9JRL on October 31, 2005
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You sound like a bunch of old Washer Women.
Ooooh, the smell of the glowing tubes....the vintage sound....the warm light of the dials.
Bahhhh.
Get rid of the junk.
Who needs cranky bandswitches, scratchy pots, smoked resistors. Am I out of Orange Drops again? Oh no!
Drag those old boatanchors around the hamfest parking lot by the linecords. That's real fun.
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by W8JI on October 31, 2005
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It's not true that tubes have better dynamic range. They do not.
The very best tube rigs from the entire span of history have much worse dynamic range and selectivity than the better newer radios.
You be amazed at how bad a Collins S line is compared to a FT1000, or how bad a Drake C line is compared to an Orion receiver. I have a 75A4, 75S3B, and dozens of other radiaos and they all are significantly worse on selectivity and dynamic range than my FT1000D or Orion.
The R4C's I use have been nearly gutted of tubes. They have solid state diode mixers, solid state IF amplifiers, solid state RF amps. Taking the tubes out and using modern devices reduced noise floor by 10 dB or more, and increased the overload point by 30-40dB.
Now transmitter IM purity on SSB is another issue, that went down hill when tubes went away, but that is partly because manufacturers "cheap out" rather than the nature of the devices. My KWM-2 transmitter is ten to fifteeen dB better for IM3 than any solid state rig I have, but NOT nearly as good as a FT1000MKV in class A mode.
It's also not true that tubes have better sound, if by better sound we mean less distortion products.
What tubes generally offer is a softer sloped waveform causing distortion, and some people like to hear a little distortion like that. I worked on a tube type amplifier design for a manufacturer, and I cleaned it all up by properly biasing the tubes and keeping the waveshape identical through out the entire amplifier chain. The audio sound guru hated it. When I intentionally dropped the anode voltage and bias on a driver stage so the signal had uneven positive and negative peak clipping, the critical "audiophile" loved it. 5% distortion sounded great to him.
Be thankful we have the rigs we do compared to most older rigs!! The only thing is the new rigs could be made significantly better with very little extra cost or design work. That's what is disappointing, but they are still much better than old rigs (except for transmitted SSB IM).
73 Tom
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by W0SWR on October 31, 2005
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Would you restore a 1966 T-Bird? I would. Would I get a old Swan back on the air? YES! and have put a few of them back in good working condition. If you have the ability and can get the parts...Get It working! Its part of radio history, when America still made the best there was. If you have never savored the warmth of a tube rig or even a hybrid rig you will never know what a real pleasure there is in the awakening of your senses running these old rigs. Getting one back on the air where it belongs is spiritual. You may not drive the old 'bird' every day but when you do it will let you know the work was worth it all, just like the turning on that old radio.
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by KC8VWM on October 31, 2005
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The R4C's I use have been nearly gutted of tubes. They have solid state diode mixers, solid state IF amplifiers, solid state RF amps. Taking the tubes out and using modern devices reduced noise floor by 10 dB or more, and increased the overload point by 30-40dB.
-----
I take a similar but different approach.
I usually just gut the caps and replace them with modern day electrolytic on the inside. I change out any out of tolerance resistors and try to preserve the original tube rectifiers if I can. Thier failure rate is pretty good so I usually leave them alone.
I am sure replacing all the tube components with solid state components would result in much better performance and has clear advantages from a technical perspective however, I just like to preserve the equipment as close to original as possible.
Reducing the noise floor by 10 db is pretty significant, but I guess that's why I still keep my modern day rigs with all the latest buzz word appointments available in the shack.
Not that you can actually work on any modern day rigs though.
I have more recently been restoring 4 rigs for the past 5 months. A BC 348Q, BC 348 R, an R-1051 (non "B") I am currently restoring an EAC - R 390a with a very low serial number. Not my first one, I just like doing it. A hobby within a hobby if you will.
The satisfaction comes when the project is all done. Like a vintage car, you operate it like it's personal. You operate it knowing you have intimately explored every nook and cranny component inside.
As the lists suggests, I only collect and rebuild decommissioned military steel. I started rebuilding them since the 1970's when I started out as an SWL. I have always associated the idea of rebuilding boatanchors with my SWL hobby at the time. Ham radio for me at least, came along much later after this fact.
Which probobly validates the idea that anyone can enjoy rebuilding boatanchors. Not just hams, but anyone with an interest.
See you at the hamfests!
73 Charles - KC8VWM
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by K4IQT on November 1, 2005
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I'd love to be able to hang onto all my old gear, but I'd just as soon see it go to new hams who can't afford to put out $1500 for a nice new station, or to those few of us who actually use the boatanchors daily. Over the years I've parted with quite a few nice old receivers and transmitters that way. It's be nice and nostalgic to hang onto them and see them on the shelf today, but this stuff was made to use on the air, not just get dusted every week. As a novice ham I had only a little to spend on gear, and was happy with every old junker I could get - if they were too far gone, they became parts sources for homebrew. If an old NC-88 or HW-100 can put a young ham on the air, why would I want it on a shelf, or in a box in the garage?
My trusty old FT-101ZD just went to Wyoming last week, going to a ham who is excited about using it. Everything on it works great and it looks almost like new. I just was not using it much, and it's not good enough to fire it up every couple of months just to keep the capacitors polarized and the switch contacts live.
Just like we the people, our ham gear was made to wear out, not rust out. And always remember "Don't look back - something might be gaining on you."
--Terry, K4IQT
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RE: Get Real
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by K1DA on November 1, 2005
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Nothing like advice from someone with a "
Popular Electronics" (you're licensed to listen by whom?)
callsign.
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RE: Get Real
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by W5HTW on November 1, 2005
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by K1DA on November 1, 2005
Nothing like advice from someone with a "
Popular Electronics" (you're licensed to listen by whom?)
callsign.??
I agree. They were the "other" wannabe hams of the 1960s. But got themselves one of them thar call signs. Actually, I thought that disappeared around 1970 or so.
I'll admit, though, there are two primary reasons I like boat anchors. One, is they have components I can see. Tht means in almost every case, when something goes wrong, I can fix it. And I understand the theory of radio, which certainly helps a bunch. And isn't necessary today.
The other is more melancholic. We who were here in the heyday of ham radio watch it slipping away, and I suspect for quite a few of us - and I know this is true for me - I feel maybe I can keep a bit of what ham radio actually was, from slipping into oblivion. It isn't about the tubes, or the resistors, or the dials or the knobs. Or even the warmth or the smell.
It is about the spirit. And the spirt is almost gone, hanging by a thread.
I'd like to see it stick around a bit longer.
Ed
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by W8VKD on November 1, 2005
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I've been around the Hobby for over 35 years. I used to build the Heathkit's, Knight Kits, Eico's, Dynaco's you name it. I now love to fix 'em! I buy a bargain or 2 off the internet and bring it back to life. That's my niche in this hobby. In the 25 years I've been licensed I have never sent a rig back to a manufacturer for repair! I'm too stubborn to give up I like the challenge and I learn a lot from the experience. My last project... a $200 Ameritron AL80 (s/n 115) rebuilt P/S board and panel switches...good as new! I love this hobby and the people in it.
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by KF4VGX on November 1, 2005
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This is normally where I trash Echolink, but this time, just this once, I'm going to control my angst. How can one look at the history of radio and even THINK about Echolink? It just doesn't belong....
-KR4WM
..............................
What and spare us all your anguishing thoughts ?
Trash on ,degrade others for what they beleve in !
Echolink will still be here when you get through crying !
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by WB8TIV on November 2, 2005
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I run the Hallicrafter Twins SX117rec & HT44trans, They were built in 1964 and they look and play like the day they were built. Sure they are not as good as todays rigs, but I have a lot of fun with them. I also have solid state rigs in my shack.I would advise you to keep it, or give or sell to someone who would enjoy having it.
George, Wb8tiv
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by W6TH on November 2, 2005
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.
Most just talk about the old radios. Go back to the "TNT" or the "TGTP" rigs. The "TGTP" rig stands for "Tuned Grid Tuned Plate". These were the fun ham radio days using the "TNT & TGTP" rigs with a Regenerative receiver. Now this is what I call ham radio.
Come to think about it these new fangled ham radios are still using our old oscillator circuits and the mixing procedures that were used 80 or more years ago. Same radios squeezed into a smaller box.
Something to think about. Heh heh.
.:
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by N3AIU on November 2, 2005
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My first radio was a Heathkit HW16. My elmer and I built it. I was only 11 years old at the time, and his guidance was greatly appreciated.
It doesn't even come close to modern rigs (even the low end ones), but it was a lot of fun to use. With the excellent full break-in, it was the perfect radio for operating CW traffic nets on 80m. That activity really incerased my code speed in a hurry.
73, Nick N3AIU
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RE: Get Real
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by W5XE on November 2, 2005
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I have several 'vintage' rigs of which the Tempo
2020 is the one I rely on primarily. It has a noise
blanker system that the newer rigs like the IC706,
Kenwood TS570 and others can't touch when it comes
to power line noise - like dropping the level from
20db over S9 to S3 or less. I also operate at times
a HW16 which is modified for qrp operation, the
receiver of which is not the best so I use an Icom R70
receiver thru a EFJ tr switch. I also use at times
a National NC57 which has great audio on the shortwave
broadcast am stations. I have had previously had the
purported best in receivers such as the Racal 6217,
6790, R-390, NC240d, Collins 51S1 and G-133. Except
for the latter two, all were getting too heavy to
move and fit in limited space, so away they went to
the local club for auction.
Speaking of the WPE numbers, I too have such, and
have had since late 1958. They were not for ham
'wannabe' types but done up for the various swl awards
that required some identifier for the awards. Many
countries then and some now still require their hams
to register as swl listeners before getting licensed
and they will have the first two letters of the
country call plus 4 or 5 numbers. After so many
countries logged, they will be eligible to take their
amateur exams. So, the WPE program was definitely
not someone trying to pass off as a licensed ham but
entirely different part of the hobby. Incidentally
I have been a SWL since about 1950, a licensed ham
since 1956 and still enjoy the swl part of the hobby
and using vintage equipment, while recognizing the
difficulties in using some, and that the new stuff is
sometimes much better.
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by W4LGH on November 3, 2005
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I am afraid that the newer radios have really spoiled a lot of hams. Turn it on, hookup the antenna and start talking. Funny that some of the newest introductions ,like the Ten-Tec Orion, Icom 7800 and the Yaesu FT-9000, you have to get back into really tunning it to get the benefits from them. And a lot of receint owners didn't like these radios because they were NOT plug and play, and they shows up here on eHam for sale! Personally I prefer solid-state over tubes, and today they do a great job with dynamic range, noise and do run cooler. But the ole TUBE has been around a long time, and did some really nice things over the years, and are still prefered in VHP (very hi power) applications.
It one of the neatest things about this hobby, so many different faccets, if you really get into it, there is something for everyone, but NOT everything to someone. If a certain area is NOT your bag of tea, then so be it, do what you really enjoy.
I think ole Art Collins and Bob Drake would be really proud to see the number of their radios still in operation today. Both of these men really put their heart & souls into their products, but if you are not a fan, its ok.
In my other hobby "Motorcycles" we have a saying that I think really applies here too..."Ride your Own Ride"
Make no difference what you are riding, as long as you are riding!!
73 de W4LGH - ALan
PS..I really have enjoyed reading all the articles on some of the older equip you guys are still using!
http://www.w4lgh.com
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by WA3IRJ on November 3, 2005
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...While not being licensed 1961, I do remember my brothers first Station,.
Halicrafters "S-85" recvr/ with optional S meter
Heath "Q" multiplier/ Heath vfo
Eico 720/ with "am" modulator (80 watts out/100 plate modulation)...and yes, I remeber him getting great audio reports.
But the way one could copy CW is what got me hooked. And I also remeber the cold war jamming stations.
Kb3lxy
73
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by N0TONE on November 3, 2005
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I used to keep old radios. Nostalgia. It reminded me of good old times. Not "better" old times, I think new times are as good as old ones. But after a while, I realized two things. First, the "good times" were caused by people, not by stuff. Second, the people of the "old times" were older than the gear of "old times".
Now, the only old gear I get is when a buddy goes SK. I keep it for a few months, enjoy the memories, and then pass it on to newcomers who are going to use it. Sometimes as a gift, sometimes to raise money for the widow. Lately, my pals who have gone SK were already widowers themselves, and their offspring were well enough heeled to not care about the estate. So I sold the gear and made donations to the ARRL or some other cause that I knew my pal was fond of.
Almost melancholic now, I'm reducing the size of my own station. Several of my children are licensed, as well as some grandchildren, and each one gets a special bit from the station. I'm trying to get down to only one radio and one tower, feeling sad for those who have to deal with them when I'm gone, as none of them live in town.
AM
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by KC9AGG on November 3, 2005
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it's just great that one actually CAN be exited about using old gear---it's actually built to last!! most amateur-use stuff is amazingly high quality---just think, thirty years from now, that 7800 will be vintage--someone will wonder if it's worth keeping--that's cool in a nerdy electronic way.
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by KL7IPV on November 3, 2005
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I have had so many radios I have lost count. I remember the Hammarlund receiver that got me interested in ham radio in 1953. But I never got to own one. I have had Gonsets, Heathkits, and others. I used a National NC-109 and grew out of that in the late 60s. I re-acquired one five years ago and then realized how bad the receive is compared to todays radios. But it has a warm glow and sound new radios lack. I gave it to a teacher for his class on ham radio to let them see what we had "back then".
I own three Icoms now and I really like them. Small, reliable, powerful. All those things that two radios to accomplish so many years ago. Now I am going to be given a Drake TR-4C. I am excited again to get a radio like I used in the 70s. It won't play like my Icoms. It won't transceive all the bands like the Icoms. It even needs a separate power supply similar to the Icoms but a far cry from the simplicity. But I am looking forward to having it again. The smells, lghts, meters and those things associated with the 70s will bring back a lot of great memories. I think we all need to be able to look back even as we anticipate and look to the future. The Drake will remind me of that. I am excited!
73,
Frank
KL7IPV
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by PF1JM on November 4, 2005
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As a newcomer in this hobby (although I was bitten by the bug in the early eighties, thanks to JOTA) it took me a long time to decide what equipment to buy for HF. I came across a TS-830S with an AT-230 and VFO-230(obviously not a boatanchor, but definitely with tubes). Love it. Unfortunately until now mainly used for SWL-ing on the HAM-bands due to antenna issues. The smell of those bottles warming.... Fondling with the knobs to get the PA-stage tuned.... This is definitely a keeper.
73
Jeroen
PF1JM / NL13067
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by N0XMZ on November 4, 2005
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Should you save the radio? Absolutely! Fix her up and put that boat anchor on ebay. I'm always amazed when I see people bidding thousands of dollars for antique radios.
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by W4LGH on November 4, 2005
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"Now I am going to be given a Drake TR-4C. I am excited again to get a radio like I used in the 70s."
You'll enjoy that TR4C...and don't let its performance surprise ya! They worked good then and they can still work very well! I just restored my Drake 4B twins...even thought I have to catch a rash of BS from some buddies on 75 meters, several of them have decided to get out their old Drakes and see if they still work! (Just let it warm up 30mins before going on the air! GRIN)
If its worth saving, SAVE it!!!! Enjoy it!!!!
73 de W4LGH - ALAN
www.w4lgh.com
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by KC8VWM on November 4, 2005
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Fix her up and put that boat anchor on ebay. I'm always amazed when I see people bidding thousands of dollars for antique radios.
-----
So I guess this means you have been watching my bidding activities on eBay huh?
Me guilty? ...who's guilty?
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by K1HW on November 4, 2005
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Hi,
Heck no, don't save it, send it to me! I'll enjoy it, one way or the other. Along with the Drakes, Swans, and Hot Waters that I don't have room for, but keep, because they are American amateur radio history. Yes, I do have rice boxes, and they do do things a lot easier, but I understand less about how they work than I did the first time I picked up an ARRL handbook and wondered what the devil they were talking about. At least I have been able to buy and read some of the old masters like Abraham Marcus and William Marcus and understand how radio really works by relating it to the rigs that "glow in the dark". How many of the new high tech hams (whom I admire. don't get me wrong) know how that transmission gets from here to where ever, across the street or to the moon, in real terms? Keep the old things alive, they keep us educated.
Jack
K1HW
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by K1HW on November 4, 2005
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Hi,
Heck no, don't save it, send it to me! I'll enjoy it, one way or the other. Along with the Drakes, Swans, and Hot Waters that I don't have room for, but keep, because they are American amateur radio history. Yes, I do have rice boxes, and they do do things a lot easier, but I understand less about how they work than I did the first time I picked up an ARRL handbook and wondered what the devil they were talking about. At least I have been able to buy and read some of the old masters like Abraham Marcus and William Marcus and understand how radio really works by relating it to the rigs that "glow in the dark". How many of the new high tech hams (whom I admire. don't get me wrong) know how that transmission gets from here to where ever, across the street or to the moon, in real terms? Keep the old things alive, they keep us educated.
Jack
K1HW
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by GM1SXX on November 5, 2005
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Its easy to criticise older equipment, sometimes because of its weight, hence the term 'boatanchors'. Other times because of the simple fact that they are indeed simply old.
There are boatanchors and there are boatanchors, and no I don't mind the term at all.
Some are OK, some are not so good and some are truly superb. Almost always, I'd say they are worth preserving.
Some boatanchors offer a better performance than many modern radios. Tracked front-ends, high-q preselectors, ingenious systems to assure stability such as the Barlow-Wadley loop system used by RACAL, excellent filters and other little tricks can produce performance to better many modern radios. New does not always equal better. Many new radios with their broadband front ends are lousy performers in the presence of nearby strong signals.
To operate many of these older radios, it helps if you are equipped with many hands:-) With sharp preselectors, you must learn a new mode of operating, continually tuning and peaking for maximum performance. It's fun, I can recommend it.
If there is a real downside to owning these old radios, its the fact that you need to be a technician rather than an operator to maintain them in a good state of health. They are not radios for the black box operator. You need to learn how to 'fly' them.
They are old, and getting older. Preserve them and cherish them or they will be gone forever with only photos in books to remind you of them.
73 Al.
GM1SXX
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by N4BWV on November 6, 2005
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I recently restored the rigs that comprised my novice station back in 1963. A few caps and a couple of tubes was all it took to bring a Knight T-60 xmtr and R-55 rcvr back to life. My call sign back then was WN0BEE. My shack was located in the basement of our house in Omaha Nebraska. In the winter I had to warm my hands in gloves before I could send passable morse. Putting the old stuff back on the air brought back some good memories. Like getting up at 5AM so I could work some choice DX on 40. Back then that meant Georgia or Florida. Radio was more fun in those days.
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by W4LGH on November 7, 2005
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"Radio was more FUN back then..." Not sure I would go totally there, it was fun back then, and I do have many many good ole memories from the 60's, but radio can be just as FUN today!
There are a lot of old radios I wouldn't waste my time on, and then there are some that are well worth restoring and playing with on the air.
I guess its all a matter of what you like as to whether its worth putting time and money into. My Drake were somthing I wanted to own back then, and couldn't afford them, now I can , and they are old, (like me) but still fun to play with.
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RE: Get Real
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by KC0LUL on November 10, 2005
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The "GET REAL" Statement is obviously from somebody that no appretiation for history and how decades of progress gave us the equipment we have today.If it were not for the gear of the past you would not have the gear you like now.
Remarks like these are generally made by those people who lack both knowledge and maturity and probably should never have been permitted to get a ham license in the first place. People like this until they grow up should stick to the internet and cellphones with other childish people and leave Ham Radio to the adults.
If you don't like older that is your problem but be respectful those that do!!!
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RE: Get Real
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by WA3IRJ on November 10, 2005
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See...for me, it is like a "time warp"
I was licensed in 1967..had various pieces in the Shack
...got away for a few decades..LOL
Totaly missed the transition to "solid state". So getting back now..OMG...a Swan can alomost be hi-tech !
But, yes..I do agree. The older stuff is history. It should be presrved. Heck..I am still trying to learn all the features of my Ft-767gx..and that was late 80's tech ! The old stuff does certainly tell us a story on ham radio...
73
kb3lxy
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by WB7AVF on November 10, 2005
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Absolutely!! Guitar players (and bass players--me) KNOW that tube amps have special qualities. It has to do with all the harmonics that come through. Of course s new solid state rig out-performs the old tube jobs but...there's something to be said for the warm glow of a Hallicrafters SX-28.
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by WA4PTZ on November 12, 2005
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While visiting the Smithsonian last year I realized
that not only was my first computer on display but
the first radio I ever talked on was there as well.
I wish I had kept it. Economics and life can play
some pretty dirty tricks on you, but now that I
have the choice and the chance I plan to collect
a few of the old ones to hold and treasure for the
future. Do you have a choice?
73
Tim WA4PTZ
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by VE4AE on November 12, 2005
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Absolutely, as long as you have some place to store it. I have been licensed for over 40 years and during that time I have had a multitude of rigs. I was always trading up, hoping to improve. Only one rig was a complete lemon. In fact it was an orchard of lemons and I couldn't wait to get rid of it. I won't name the brand but it was not made in the USA. I have fond memories of Hallicrafters, Swan, Drake, and the British KW brand and I never could afford Collins although I did lust for it. Whenever I see an ad for one of my old rigs nostalgia makes me want to see it and just turn the dials. I look for them at hamfests etc and they bring back pleasant memories. One other thing- the prices for old equipment are fantastically high. Check the ads and you will find that some rigs now sell for more than you paid when they were new.Perhaps an extra bonus. New is not necessarily better. 73 Jack
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by WA8MEA on November 15, 2005
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You sound like me, going through a similar situation with my National NCX-3. I've been debating over and over in my mind on whether to unload this and go back to a Yaesu or Icom, or keep this and pour more restoration money into the rig. (Tubes, caps, dial repair...) The rig was a gift from a ham that was moving, and he didn't want to carry along the extra baggage.
The rig drives me crazy at times. But at the same time, it takes me back to the days I truly had fun and learned.
HUGE difference in this rig compared to the newer appliances. The dial likes to slip. It's analog. The power supply hums. The receive audio likes to blast. But it's rare, it's unique and I really hate to part with it.
It would be easy for me to go get an appliance once again. And I still drool over some of the newer rigs featured in the magazines.
But I guess I just like being different on the air.....
73, Bill - WA8MEA
http://HamRadioFun.com
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by WA3IRJ on November 16, 2005
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Yeah...I know !
thay is whay I like my Swans... :)
73
kb3lxy
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RE: Should I Save this Radio?
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by K8MHZ on February 5, 2006
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Update:
The Swan is going nowhere. After advice from my Elmer KV8X and some great contacts on 20 meters, the Swan 350 has now assumed a permanent position in my shack. The people I talk to really like it (world wide BTW) and by popular demand it is here to stay.
73,
K8MHZ
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Should I Save this Radio?
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by VU2VMZ on June 9, 2006
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hi friends,
i had been licensed for the last four years and had been using an yaesu ft-101e since. though lacking the bells and whistles of current synthesised digital radios, these heavy duty sets have a feel of being there on the desktop and work silently. with a simple dipole my txcver still picks up south americans on good propogation periods. no need of an independent power supply set up, just plug on the wall and play along. i do have some sentimental attachemnts for this radio and am sure will save this radio till it goes slient one day. i have joined the foxtango forum and do have lot of info. from all the friends around, needless to say carol, the forum admin. is doing a wonderful job by recording and making available all the information. well i have sets of spare driver and final valves and i am sure they will take me along for another 20 years hihi.
73s vu2vmz
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