Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are Top Priority, ARRL Says:
from
The ARRL Letter, Vol 24, No 43
Website:
http://www.arrl.org/
on
November 4, 2005
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Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are Top Priority, ARRL Says:
The ARRL again has urged the FCC to provide meaningful operating privileges
to entry-level Amateur Radio licensees, including access to HF, even if the
Commission doesn't want to create a new license class. Commenting in
response to the FCC's July 9 Notice of Proposed Rule Making and Order
(NPRM&O) in WT Docket 05-235, the League also stood by its stance that the
Commission retain the 5 WPM Morse code requirement for Amateur Extra
applicants, but do away with it for General applicants.
"Retaining Morse telegraphy as a requirement for only the Amateur Extra
class license, in ARRL's view, places Morse telegraphy in a proper, balanced
perspective," the League told the Commission October 31, the deadline to
comment in the proceeding. Reply comments are due November 14.
The FCC's NPRM&O proposed eliminating the 5 WPM Morse code requirement for
all Amateur Radio license classes but denied requests to create a new
entry-level license class with limited HF privileges. The League said the
FCC needs to finish the job of license restructuring it began in 1998 by
reviewing operating privileges for all classes--especially at the first rung
of the licensing ladder.
"The elimination of Morse telegraphy, absent a more thorough review of
operating privileges in the Amateur Service, will not address the
ascertained flaws in the only entry-level license class," the ARRL asserted,
referring to the Technician license. "That license class is not attracting
or keeping newcomers in its present configuration, and it needs fixing right
now."
The ARRL argued that if the FCC will not create a new Novice class license
as the League had suggested in its earlier Petition for Rule Making
(RM-10867) in the proceeding, it should modify Technician operating
privileges instead. The present licensing regime limits Technicians to VHF
bands and above, "leaving newcomers to the Amateur Service isolated from
their peers holding higher class licenses," the ARRL said. "The Technician
class is, for too many, a 'dead end' to what might otherwise be an active,
progressive interest in Amateur Radio, technical self-training and
incentive-based educational progress in the many facets of the avocation."
The ARRL reminded the FCC that its restructuring plan enjoyed the support of
the two Amateur Radio licensees in Congress--Rep Greg Walden, W7EQI (R-OR)
and Rep Mike Ross, WD5DVR (D-AR).
Eliminating the Morse requirement for General class applicants "creates an
anomaly with respect to the Technician class license," the ARRL noted. "If
the telegraphy requirement for the General class license is eliminated, the
distinction between the Technician class licensee and the Technician Plus
class licensee will have disappeared completely." Therefore, the League
contends, there is a logical basis for affording Technician licensees
entry-level HF privileges.
Under the ARRL plan, Technicians would have telegraphy and data privileges
on 3.55-3.7 MHz, 7.05-7.125 MHz and 21.05-21.20 MHz at 100 W output and on
28.05-28.3 MHz at 50 W output. The League wants the FCC to provide HF phone
and image privileges to Technicians on 3.9-4.0 MHz, 7.2-7.3 MHz and
21.35-21.45 MHz at 100 W output, and on 28.3-28.5 MHz at 50 W.
These recommended privileges take into account the FCC's proposal to adopt
the ARRL's so-called "Novice refarming" plan in WT Docket 04-140. The ARRL
had earlier proposed the same privileges for a reconstituted Novice license.
The time is right to take a look at the operating privileges of Amateur
Radio license classes, the ARRL said in its filing, "because the entry-level
license class is demonstrably neither attractive to newcomers nor
encouraging in terms of retaining the interest of license holders."
To back up its assertions, the League pointed to surveys it conducted in
1992 and 2003. Nearly half of the licensees responding in the latter poll
indicated that they were not currently active in Amateur Radio--up 30
percent from the earlier survey. "The number of inactive Technician class
licensees is 46 percent," the ARRL noted, adding that more than a quarter of
Technicians responding in 2003 said they'd never even been on the air.
The League pointed out that the FCC's proposed across-the-board elimination
of the Morse requirement eliminates a simple mechanism for current
Technician licensees to obtain HF operating privileges--passing the 5 WPM
code exam.
If the FCC does nothing other than eliminate the Morse requirement for the
General license, the ARRL commented, it would make no sense to continue to
deprive Technician licensees the HF operating privileges that Tech Plus
licensees now enjoy.
"To do otherwise is to draw a distinction that is entirely arbitrary," the
League concluded.
Source:
The ARRL Letter
Vol. 24, No. 43
November 4, 2005
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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Slumming Down Licenses: Top ARRL Priority
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by K4RAF on November 4, 2005
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"The League wants the FCC to provide HF phone and image privileges to Technicians on 3.9-4.0 MHz, 7.2-7.3 MHz and 21.35-21.45 MHz at 100 W output, and on 28.3-28.5 MHz at 50 W."
Wait just a minute there Sparky. So while eliminating CW for Generals is 'bad', throwing a few 100,000 more Techs on to the already crammed General HF bands is somehow 'good'??? 40 & 75M are a mess now without them! Then Techs get an extra 25KHz on 40M Generals won't?
Here we go with the arbitrary assignment of superficial 'distinction' between classes, once CW is removed. Instead of uniting, the ARRL only seeks to continue dividing us into little enclaves, by arbitrary criteria that fits their purpo$e$ & subject to change at their every hairbag whim. I would also mention that 13WPM Generals are once again 'deprived' of recognition & instead are being dumped in with Techs with no code? Talk about 'slumming down' Generals? This cramming angst is an 'incentive' to become an Extra? Hardly...
FCC (please): Cut out the ARRL 'class' charade & create a no CW, single class amateur license. Simple to administer within your ULS structure, simple to follow without any arbitrary ARRL scoring card & will never need to be revisited again!
This hairbag proposal, along with the bandwidth hijack, prove how totally absurd the ARRL is at creating any "incentive". There seem hell bent of ruining the hobby once & for all, in the cause of "preserving" what isn't there by their own admission, incentive to operate... Ironic?
No absurd!
k4raf@yahoo.com
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Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are Top
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by KE4ZHN on November 4, 2005
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It appears the league is dying to sell us out in favor of the almighty buck! If this doesnt prove it nothing will!
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Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are Top
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by K0CBA on November 5, 2005
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What the ARRL would really like is to give a full privilege license with every membership. I believe the wonderful, self serving league has made and will continue to make a shambles of ham radio to further their own self perceived grandure. The long standing mantra of 'they are the only game in town', should in itself scare the pee water out of you.
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Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are Top
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by NY7Q on November 5, 2005
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I believe the arrl has served its purpose and should disband. Technicians(who, by far are un-technical) are nothing more than "beginners" and deserve limited access to the bands.
My original mentor was a "real General", so why degrade the class into a beginner rank.
You people at arrl are just plain stupid, and have ruined ham radio. I strongly disagree with you, and you do not represent ham radio. Go away please.
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RE: Slumming Down Licenses: Top ARRL Priority
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by W6VCE on November 5, 2005
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"Wait just a minute there Sparky. So while eliminating CW for Generals is 'bad', throwing a few 100,000 more Techs on to the already crammed General HF bands is somehow 'good'??? 40 & 75M are a mess now without them! Then Techs get an extra 25KHz on 40M Generals won't?"
Crammed General HF bands? I thought this was a dying hobby and we were losing Hams left and right. Which is it? Crowded bands packed with Hams or a dwindling brotherhood? (or peoplehood or whatever politically correct title you'd like to give it)
Seriously...I've always believed that the ARRL's master plan is to eliminate all license classes in favor of a single class, perhaps the Socialist Class license, granting the same privileges to all, and perhaps...in the future...taking control of amateur radio licensing altogether. The FCC would simply outsource the responsibility to the ARRL.
Buy a radio. In the box is an ARRL license application form. Fill it out, send it in with a check and you'll get your license in the mail. Or, go to the ARRL website, register your new purchase on-line, use Pay Pal, click the submit button and BINGO! Your new call sign is ready to use.
Whatever.
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are
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by AD5X on November 5, 2005
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The proposal makes sense to me. Currently, Tech Plus licensees can operate on 80-, 40-, and 15 meters on cw - and 10 meters on phone (I know you can't get a Tech Plus license anymore, but there are still some out there). Since code is no longer going to be required at HF (at least for General and maybe even Extra), and because there will no longer be any difference between Tech and Tech Plus, the ARRL is just proposing to add limited phone and data frequencies on these same bands that the Tech Plus licensees can already operate on. This is not giving the Techs all the same priviledges as General, as the proposal limits their bands, frequency segments, and power level. So there is still incentive to upgrade.
Phil - AD5X
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Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are Top
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by AB6MH on November 5, 2005
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The ARRL being "the only game in town" IS the main problem.
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are
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by W8JI on November 5, 2005
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Come on now guys. What's with all the bashing?
The ARRL is doing what the polls showed they should do. Look back at reader polls. Look at other public polls. They only want to retain 5WPM, something a child can learn to do on a few weekends, for the highest class we have! For Pete's sake 10 year olds who know nothing about radio can pass the extra. My 75 year old uncle, who flunked the extra a half dozen times years ago, walked right into a VE session and grabbed an extra with lifting a book! The Extra as is today just isn't that difficult anymore. Let's at least keep it the equal of a 1960 Novice exam.
The ARRL only wants techs, a class that basically goes nowhere and where many are never even active at all, to have a few limited HF privleges. It isn't the end of the world for any of you. Y'all wanted no code because the bands were empty, and now your whining like stuck pigs because you claim there isn't any room for a few techs on HF. Which is it?
The ARRL is finally doing the right thing, doing what polls show the members want, and no one here is happy. How disappointing!
73 Tom
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Only if they transmit at ARRL Headquaters
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by W1DUD on November 5, 2005
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.....Under the ARRL plan, Technicians would have telegraphy and data privileges on 3.55-3.7 MHz, 7.05-7.125 MHz and 21.05-21.20 MHz at 100 W output and on 28.05-28.3 MHz at 50 W output. The League wants the FCC to provide HF phone and image privileges to Technicians on 3.9-4.0 MHz, 7.2-7.3 MHz and 21.35-21.45 MHz at 100 W output, and on 28.3-28.5 MHz at 50 W..........Bullshite
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Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are Top
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by W5GNB on November 5, 2005
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Well, we used to have an entry level license that was called the NOVICE CLASS. I guess this wasn't good enough since it did require at least an hour of study prior to testing and a minor knowledge of the "CODE".
BUT HEY, I think the ARRL is right on with this one, Why don't we just forget all this License and technical crap and just everyone use thier drivers license number as thier call sign? We want EQUALITY for all regardless of any stupid testing requirements. We don't need any technical base and what the heck is this crap about having to learn CODE, for heavens sake?????
For that matter let's add Eleven Meters back into the ham bands and we can then all sound just the same! The contesters have turned it all into one big SKIP SHOOTING party anyhow!!
I think if the ARRL remains in charge of the restructuring, we are certainly doomed to soon becoming extinct.
AND that is MY two cents worth!!!
73's
Gary - W5GNB
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are
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by N4ZOU on November 5, 2005
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Don't worry, be happy! The ARRL is doing there best to get Amateur radio to Internet e-mail gates via Winlink 2000 turned loose on the HF bands. Other than a few Hertz at the bottom of each band all you will be hearing is robotic Pactor 1, 2, and 3 digital noises as robots check your Internet e-mail account. No worry with microphones, or problems with that PTT finger from overuse! No technical knowledge required as Airmail operates the transceiver for you. Just pay your local computer jockey to hook up your Amateur radio Internet e-mail machine so all you need to do is open the message folder from time to time. Going this route removes the requirement of the wireless e-mail system to have a trained operator. The FCC should require a license of anyone setting up these wireless Internet stations and should mandate that only trained and licensed radio professionals set up Wireless Internet e-mail systems using Amateur radio frequencies.
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Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are Top
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by K6PQ on November 5, 2005
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Now lets see where to begin..First of all I agree with most of the comments posted above this one..Just what does the so called ARRL think they are doing?..The "Good Ole Boys" in Conn. are creating this smoke screen in an effort to say "See we are going to fight for you and better the sevice/hobby", when in fact this is nothing more than a ruse to attract people to join their organization..Send us money and we will send you a membership card as well as a worthless monthly magazine, that if condensed without 3/4 of it filled with ads would be about 30 pages long of meaningful information..Do they think we all are not able to see whats going on?..Do they believe we all are that stupid..They (ARRL) have supported every re-structuring all in the name of enhancing the sevice/hobby..Has it done any good?..I THINK NOT..Sure you get a influx of hams for a short time but then it's back to businss they become bored and leave the hobby..All it does is allow the ARRL to sell memberships and magazine's..
Do they the ARRL think they are going to march into the FCC office and tell them how to conduct business?..I THINK NOT..It is obvious the FCC wants nothing to do with amateur radio..So what influence does the ARRL think they have?..Are they going to protect our frequencies if the FCC deciedes to restructure them..The answer is NO..Do they really think their input on BPL is important with the FCC?..Face it folks the FCC is big business..By comparison the ARRL is nothing more than a minor annoyance!..
Ask yourself next time your ARRL membership is due for renewal should I donate to this group or take the wife and kids out for pizza? My advice go get the pizza you will have less heartburn!..
--... ...-- for those of that understand! Yep just another old fart commenting!
K6PQ
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is this for real ????????
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by KI4FMJ on November 5, 2005
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has there been any change is what there saying is it going to become leagal . the arrl plan to add to techican is good but the age of morse code is gone and we are in the digital modes now . so lets change with the time !!!!!!!!!!!!
brian murray
fort myers , fl
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RE: is this for real ????????
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by WA4MJF on November 5, 2005
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Seems most who have posted here about
an ARRL proposal are NOT, by their own
admission, members of the League.
That makes it as much their business
as it is the business of a wet back what
US government policies are proposed.
Think about it....
If you want the League to care about
how you think, join and put up candidates
who support your views and vote
just like wet backs can apply for citizenship
and put up their candidates and vote.
Same principle.
Otherwise, I support the ARRL BOD
ignoring non-members and supporting
the views of members.
Those who want to join another outfit,
AARN, IARN, etc contact Glen, Wayne or whoever.
(Wayne BTW is a Life Member of the
ARRL, so he has standing to complain)
73 de Ronnie
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RE: is this for real ????????
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by KG4YJR on November 5, 2005
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>>Seems most who have posted here about
an ARRL proposal are NOT, by their own
admission, members of the League.
That makes it as much their business
as it is the business of a wet back what
US government policies are proposed.<<
I respectfully disagree Ronnie. Since the ARRL "claims" to represent "all" amateur radio operators (yep, that includes the majority 75% of US amtateurs who are non-members) and since their proposals DO affect ALL amateur radio operators, not just their members, all license holders as recognized by the FCC, not the ARRL and QRZ do have a right to voice their opinions and it is their "business".
73
Dave
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RE: is this for real ????????
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by WA4MJF on November 5, 2005
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I'm not aware that the League claims
to represent ALL hams. Were that so
they would let ALL hams vote in their
elections, not need a members only
section of the web site, etc. Now some
over zealous member may have said that,
but I don't think that it is offical
League policy.
The League's proposals to the FCC are
just that, proposals. The ARRL has no
inherent right to tell the FCC what to
do. What becomes regulation is that
which the Commissioners pass.
So the ARRL's proposals do NOT affect
all hams, just as any proposal made by
NCI, QCWA, NCVEC, or any other organization
does not affect all hams. What the
FCC DOES affects all US hams.
73 de Ronnie
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Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are Top
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by KG4YJR on November 5, 2005
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Several quotes from ARRL's webite:
"represents US radio amateurs in legislative matters"
"There would be no Amateur Radio as we know it today were it not for the ARRL"
Sounds pretty inclusive, not exclusive to me.
73
Dave
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are
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by WA4MJF on November 5, 2005
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Well, since you have to have a
ticket to be a full member, the statement
"represents US Amateurs" is accurate.
If, however, it said "represents ALL
US Amateurs", in would be incorrect.
Since the voting members are US licensed
hams and not, say, US licensed pilots,
it makes sense to me!
And yep, the ARRL did propose a lot of
the changes in ham radio in the US that
the FCC made into regulation that makes
ham radio it what it is today. So I would
guess the second statement is correct.
I did not agree with all of them,
but most of them.
Were it not for the League's Incentive
Licensing proposal, for example, I'd
probably still be a
General. So it worked for me :-)
73 de Ronnie
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RE: is this for real ????????
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by K6PQ on November 5, 2005
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Ok Ronnie:
"The League's proposals to the FCC are
just that, proposals. The ARRL has no
inherent right to tell the FCC what to
do. What becomes regulation is that
which the Commissioners pass".
Has this not been stated over and over again in previous postings in different ways? So then the question becomes as you stated in your response noted above (Read Your Words).."What purpose does the ARRL serve"? As I see it NONE! So please do not gripe about most of the postings you have saw are from non members of the ARRL..You if fact do not know whom is a member and who is not..Again I will say given the choice between a pizza dinner with the family and the ARRL I would choose the pizza hands down! Oh and by the way do not be so critical as whom are ARRL members and who are not. My license is granted by the FCC not the ARRL..And I am a past 20 year member..
--... ...--
Bob
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Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are Top
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by AB6MH on November 5, 2005
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K6PQ:
Well Bob, didn't I tell ya they'd start showing up? They'll be on here like a herd of locust in a little while. Same old tired rhetoric ... it never changes!
They are already over on QRZ.
I saw where someone was calling for a single-class license. Liberalism at it's finest!
Dit-dit.
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Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are Top
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by W3ULS on November 5, 2005
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I couldn't agree more with the ARRL's comments. The carping by people who got their licenses in the dark ages misses the point. The hobby needs new blood. (Listen to the checks in this weekend's CW Sweepstakes.)
Unfortunately, it appears that the FCC's position is set, and that it will not change.
John, W3ULS
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are
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by WR8D on November 5, 2005
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Hello Ronnie, i guess i had about 10-12 years in as a member and i got very sick of what the arrl was helping turn our bands into. I'm now one of the "upper" 75 percent of Americian hams that can see through all the bull shit. They are only for what ever measures will put a damn buck in their pocket and don't give a flying hoot about our bands. Right now the drive is to make it as easy as possible to get a ticket so all the dumbass cbers in our country can get on hf and scream "audio" till they burst a gut and since the dumbass arrl has helped them get there the league hopes they'll become "new" members. Open your damn eyes look back 15 years and see what they've been doing. Simple as that. They already have projections on the number of cbers that are out there and are just waiting for the bucks to come rolling in!
--... ...-- WR8D Lets all go to cw and leave these weirdo's to themselves.
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License
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by W8JI on November 5, 2005
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I honestly don't think most of the ranting fools even read what the ARRL asked for.
The bulk of US amateurs, ARRL members and those who are not, have repeatedly wanted some form of CW testing for some licenses. The ARRL is at least trying to keep the amateur extra at the level of a Novice test in the 60's and 70's, which was a time of huge growth.
The ARRL also asked for techs to have limited HF access for low power SSB and digital modes. Big deal. We already are going to pretty much give HF away to anyone who wants to operate, largely thanks to the FCC and pressure from push-the-button and talk groups like NCI.
At least the ARRL is trying to fix some of the major problems with the FCC proposal. I'm really amazed to see for that they catch heck.
By the way, if you look the rants are evenly divided. About half are blaming the ARRL for relaxing requirements to get money, the other half are blaming the ARRL for keeping requirements people wanted to get money.
Pretty weird, isn't it?
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License
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by W8JI on November 5, 2005
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I honestly don't think most of the ranting fools even read what the ARRL asked for.
The bulk of US amateurs, ARRL members and those who are not, have repeatedly wanted some form of CW testing for some licenses. The ARRL is at least trying to keep the amateur extra at the level of a Novice test in the 60's and 70's, which was a time of huge growth.
The ARRL also asked for techs to have limited HF access for low power SSB and digital modes. Big deal. We already are going to pretty much give HF away to anyone who wants to operate, largely thanks to the FCC and pressure from push-the-button and talk groups like NCI.
At least the ARRL is trying to fix some of the major problems with the FCC proposal. I'm really amazed to see for that they catch heck.
By the way, if you look the rants are evenly divided. About half are blaming the ARRL for relaxing requirements to get money, the other half are blaming the ARRL for keeping requirements people wanted to get money.
Pretty weird, isn't it?
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are
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by WR8D on November 5, 2005
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Ref W3ULS: I don't know about the checks in the cw sweepstakes but you can't find a clear freq in the bottom end of 75 meters. Its 12:45am here in wv and the brass is having the hell pounded out of it. Pretty good for something thats supposed to just go away and not be there. I'm not a contester so i won't partake of the mode during the SS but amateurs all over the country are digging their keys back out and getting back on the mode in recent weeks. They're even talking about it in CQ mag. CQ as in real amateur mag where you know where your money is going! --... ...-- -.. . .-- .-. ---.. -..
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are
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by WR8D on November 6, 2005
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Noticed 40 meters is the same this morning. No clear freq complete cw band jammed with cw op's. Sounds just like any other contest, operators piled on top of each other making contacts only its cw. Hum, i thought this was dead or dieing. Must just be arrl member bull shit! Oh and i'm not an old fart just yet so seems there's a lot of conflicting information on this issue. Gee i love the digital modes have a rigblaster pro work all the fuzzy modes make contacts all over the world and i do "CW" too. If you don't like a mode don't use it simple as that. We all should get our facts straight though before we get on these threads and spew nonsense. There are tons of new folks reading these things and what they see typed on most of these things is the exact opposite of the facts. To you new hams and those thinking of becoming a ham. Get a ticket, get on the air and have fun making contacts all over the world. The use of one of our modes or "non-use" does not make you a better or worse ham. Just get on the air and experiance amateur radio for yourselves, see through all the bullshit and if you want to enjoy a good amateur mag subscribe to cq. They have a nice website, their subscription price goes toward making a great amateur magazine. Your money won't be wasted on a lie from the past. 73 John WR8D
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are
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by WR8D on November 6, 2005
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One last observation for the day. 20 meters is also completely full of cw op's. COMPLETELY packed just like any other contest ooh but its the dead cw mode they're using. It can't be Americians doing that nasty cw stuff its got to be coming from some other country? Wait no i cpy calls from just about all areas...must be my imagination i guess i've been to close to extreme rf fields and its burned my brain cells...those are'nt cw signals i hear its just my ears ringing from all the target shooting i've done in my life. 73 all and have a wonderful weekend WR8D ... -.-
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Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are Top
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by WA1RNE on November 6, 2005
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I have not been impressed with the ARRL's stance on Winlink and their proposed bandwidth regulations, but I am with the ARRL on this proposal.
First, you have to look at all the posts so far. It would seem that for every new proposal that ANYONE comes out with, the "Code for Amateur Competence" crowd (CAC) is always right there, regardless of how much sense it makes.
What I get a real kick out of is the pure BS rationale for keeping the morse requirement.
For instance:
>"throwing a few 100,000 more Techs on to the already crammed General HF bands is somehow 'good'??? 40 & 75M are a mess now without them!"
>"Technicians(who, by far are un-technical) are nothing more than "beginners" and deserve limited access to the bands."
The "mess" is in some ways self inflicted. "We" ask for these "make-a-contact" contests, which other than Field Day is not what amateur radio is really all about.
How much technical expertise does one need to run a radio that records and sends "CQ CQ W6XYZ", then the operator provides a report and a number??? That's right, not much.
Then there's the arrogance factor.
Let's see, a Technician takes the same test as a General, minus the Morse element and element 3.
A Technician is currently allowed to run CW, SSB, AM, and FM on 50 Mhz and above - at the full 1500 watt legal limit, but are somehow less capable of doing the same on HF?
Please, don't come back with the "Element 3 question pool contains the test questions pertaining to HF propogation", etc. Last I checked, there was a grand total of 2-3 questions which barely skims the surface on the subject.
Blaming the the licensing process for all the "rif-raf" on our bands is more BS. Just like in the workplace, some engineers are very understanding, are willing to mentor new engineers and are generally nice people. Others are downright rude and arrogant to the extreme and need a massive dose of personality.
Guess what? Same goes for ham radio operators. Unfortunately, there's not much we can do about a person's learned social skills.
Today, the technical side of ham radio has diminished tremendously compared to 25 years ago, and it's not because of elimination of Morse from the testing process. Sure the tests are not as technical as they should be, but once you pass, it's off to the local radio store or Internet to buy that 10 band in a cigar box rig w/autotuner and a super G5RV and away you go.
What skills do you learn after that?? I suggest everyone staring looking at new ways to get people interested in radio, not banish them to 6 and 2 meters and HF CW because they're not Morse fanatics.
I've been saying the same for years that the ARRL is proposing now: allowing Tech's to have limited HF Phone priviledges will generate incentive and will give newcomers a taste of DX via voice.
The incentive to upgrade will be more Phone band space, the same exact reason I decided to upgrade from General to Advanced 29 years ago.....
73, Chris
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are
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by WR8D on November 6, 2005
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Hi Chris, there's a nice British amateur on qrz begging us to not go down the same road as they. That's where all this mess is heading. Go over there and read his comments. GM6LYJ his name is John. Its not about code/nocode. Who will enforce a power limit on these new operators? Who will even care? Just gonna make a bigger mess out of whats already a mess.
73, John WR8D
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are
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by W8JI on November 6, 2005
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Like it or not, CW is the most efficient power consumed vs distance worked mode we have. Some digital modes are close, but the common ones like PSK hog power (steady signal when transmitting), have severly limited dynamic range, and require a computer.
There is absolutely no comparison between SSB and CW, so far as communications range vs power.
While I don't like the fact it is being dropped from tests, I could accept it IF the Extra class retained it. I'm not alone, the bulk of people polled feel the same way. Recent polls have also shown that about 50% of licensed ACTIVE Hams use CW at least on occasion.
For those who think the CW test stops meaningful numbers of people from being Hams, that's 100% pure bunk. Dropping the test isn't going to bring any significant number of new people into the hobby. The only thing changes in testing will do is re-shuffle the people we have.
Right now, without **any** recent license changes, the extra class is the only class growing. Others are receeding. The testing level has been steadily reduced over the years, and the only thing we really see when we reduce testing requirements is a bunch of new inactive people who get pushed into the hobby by others and a migration of active people to higher classes.
What people don't want to face is the fact Ham Radio isn't exciting or neat any longer. It is not cutting edge. Computers, cheap long distance, and cellphones have replaced what most people thought was neat about radio. The only significant number of people left to attract are people who like to use radio as a random dialer.
If you doubt this flip on a CB radio. Even CB radio, with no licensing and not enforcement, is significantly down from what it was in the peak years. The only people left on CB are the random dialers.
Even conventional two-way radio systems for businesses are vanishing. I have people try to give me complete VHF and UHF FM radio systems at least two or three times a year. Those systems are also a victim of technology changes.
All the whining in the world, all the free testing in the world, will NEVER cause a sudden growth and restoration of the status radio once had. Changes in testing won't slow the decline over the long term.
The real reason radio is declining is staring you in the face. 20 years ago we would have been on the radio talking about this. 30 years ago I could walk in any Drug Store and buy Electronics Illustrated, Popular Electronics, CQ, 73, or even QST. There were many electronics stores that sold ham gear and components in every town. In Toledo Ohio we had Warren Radio, Lifetime Electronics, Hildebrand Electronics, and Selectronics. All sold Ham gear, all sold crystals for Ham frequencies, all sold all the parts you needed to build a receiver or transmitter. Electronics was taught in every school district. Most schools had Ham clubs.
The regression from that to what we have now doesn't have a thing to do with the ARRL, CW, or swearing on the 75 meters. And it won't stop receeding no matter what we do, nor will the overall rate change.
73 Tom
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are
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by WA1RNE on November 7, 2005
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WR8D, John;
I'm not sure I understand your concern over power limits for new Tech's.
You must know that over the years, countless Generals, Advnaced and Extra Class hams have regularly run WAY over the legal limit, especially before the 2000 watt PEP max input days. You don't really think these guys were running their Henry and Alpha amps at the legal limit do you?
I don't think power levels are going to be a big issue. The general concensus for keeping CW in the testing process is that without a CW test, the FCC might as well do away with testing all together, and I disagree.
Tom, W8JI has made some valid points, some of which I have stated in the past just in different ways.
As Tom said here, the bottom line is that ham radio doesn't instill the same fascination for many people as it once did. The reason seems to be the effect of the natural progression of technology, namely computers, the Internet and cellular services.
A good example is VHF repeaters and the autopatch. Back in the 70's and 80's, these features were enough for many Tech's to be satisfied with the spectrum priviledges they had, along with SSB modes on 6, 2, 432, etc. Today, repeaters in many parts of the U.S. are hardly used, and the term "autopatch" is used only be amateur historians.
So if we're going to have an entry level license, it's got to have some substance for it to be viable, otherwise it will be a detriment instead of a future enabler.
I can't disagree with the higher communication range of CW vs. voice modes, but I can say the same thing about SSb vs. FM or AM.
When I operate plate modulated AM on 160,75 or 40, it's not because I'm interested in the best range. I use the mode because I like the fidelity, the nostalgia that comes with it and the hams on the other end who tend to be the type who like to discuss homebrewing and restoration of old gear.
If CW floats your boat, then by all means, go for it.
BTW, when up for something different, I still get on CW occasionally. Brings back good memories.....
73, Chris
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are
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by W9WHE-II on November 7, 2005
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What we really need to do is to end testing altogether. Think of the benifits:
1) A flood of new hams would all buy ARRL publications, enabling ARRL to hire a CEO to add to its COO and Executive Director.
2) We would finally become just like our sister service, CB.
3) Manufacturers would be inundated with new orders for equipment, suprring new product development!
4) Just think of the emcom we could provide with all those additional orange vest wearing, badge toting, blue light on the dash types!
Heck...I'm convinced. IF NCI can get rid of the code, we can get rid of testing!
W9WHE
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are
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by WR8D on November 7, 2005
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I just used the power limit issue as one of my concerns Chris. Someone mentioned legal limit on 6 meters and what was the differance in a tech operating there or on hf freq's. Here in these little mountains of East ky and Southern Wva we have no 6 meter openings. I've been licensed over 22 years now and never worked a 6 meter contact unless it was just local down the road. For some reason the band never opens up to us. Some of the new techs start out with some kind of 6 meter rig then always get rid of them. I'm sure there's other parts of the country just like us here that never hear a 6 meter sig so these guys have no clue about operating. Most of them are still into cb around here and the ruffest bunch of people any of us can imagine. No rules, no respect for anyone much less themselves. Without a ruling from the fcc i would have lost my 2 meter machines to them. I know how they operate and like to talk so i dread all of the above mentioned things from the power to language, tie all this into a freebander ego and it makes for a real mix. No i'm not saying all of them are alike. My experiance is out of ten we got just two that make nice hams. The rest went from cb to extra in six months and use their ham rigs to freeband. My mentioned examples will not be isolated to this area. They are out there everywhere. Its honestly in my opinion just gonna make a bigger mess of things. The only thing in our favor is you can't tell one of them his moonraker will not work on 80 meters, so they'll be burning each other up door to door and the rest of us won't be able to hear them lol. The moonraker example actually happened to me. One of the locals went from cb freebander to extra class in 6 months. He holds the license of our highest class but knows nothing about amateur radio and you can't teach him and his buddies either. I've been cussed trying to elmer them and told they had been on radio "cb" for over 30 years and knew more about radio than any of us. As we hillbillys say we have a hard row to hoe ahead of us. 73 i just hate to see it all go to hell so fast. John WR8D Happy Thanksgiving!
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are
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by KC8VWM on November 7, 2005
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Who will enforce a power limit on these new operators? Who will even care?
-----
So... what has changed exactly?
Oh wait, I have an idea. Let's all pretend this problem doesn't currently exist on HF already!
The worst part about dropping CW as a requirement is that all the Techs will suddenly be burdened and inherit the blame for all the problems that ever existed on the HF bands for the past 35 years.
No thanks, I am not interested in these sort of so called "meaningful" operating privileges.
73 Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are
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by K4RAF on November 7, 2005
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"Crammed General HF bands? I thought this was a dying hobby and we were losing Hams left and right. Which is it?"
Yes & yes... Neither is wrong. Someone mentioned 15 years. This is right around the Novice enhancement days. That started the ball rolling toward cramping General band space. Then add the 5WPM General bar drop & it becomes pretty clear that the General portion has become more crowded, while the allocated bandspace remained the same. Many in the last 10 years have 100% store bought HF stations. While there is nothing wrong with that, they populated the band far quicker than anyone before them. Add contests, traffic charades & 89,000 nets for a daily sum loss of cruising space. The reasons it is dying is not really based on the numbers either,IMHO. Rather it is about the pace of communications technology & amateurs total failure to REMAIN unique.
"Crowded bands packed with Hams or a dwindling brotherhood?"
Again, yes & yes. Along the East Coast 40 & 75 have become near impossible to keep a clean 3KHz frequency without running an amp & strapping antenna in the General portion. I can't imagine it is any easier out West. According to the proposal, Technicians would be granted 25KHz more than Generals on 40 or did I read that wrong? What was in the EC peace pipe?
As far as "brotherhood", that is a very simple answer for me. Policy wolves are dividing the sheep into smaller & smaller pockets, aka 'classes', which are then consumed. Ham radio doesn't have the fraternal feel nor the technical 'bite' it had just 10 years ago. The deficit of technology has caused the consumer applications to become far more advanced than our most advanced innovations. The internet society has changed this hobby into a springboard for complacency with more excuses for not adapting to survive than Bayer has aspirins.
Seems to me that those who claim the ARRL doesn't make claims of superiority refuse to see how 'members' vs. peers are viewed by the EC or the general 'membership'. Then there is the "join the minority" crowd. They are plain clueless because I would guess that half of the 80% of hams who are not current 'members' were at some time previous. I know I checked out 10 years ago after 13 years... I agree with the point about the FCC licenses us ALL. The day the ARRL issues any licenses is the day I become a freebander...
k4raf@yahoo.com
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RE: Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are
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by WA1RNE on November 7, 2005
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John;
Sorry to hear about the situation out there. I remember the CB craze around here back in the 70's but it's confined now to truckers talking over the road.
In this area, I don't hear much of this sort of thing going on.
Sure, 5 WPM of code didn't stop them from what they're pulling today. They can also get a Tech license and go bazirk with 1500 watts on 10 meters today.
But if they chose to be that brazen - and stupid to try this crap on 40 meters, the FCC enforcement division would have to respond to the mass of emails and calls that would ensue
Temporarily, it would probably be a good thing for you and your area. After a few get pinched, I doubt the rest would be back - except maybe back to their Moonrakers on 27 mc......
73 and Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours....
Chris
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Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are Top
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by K1GB on November 8, 2005
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What's the matter with you people? Here the ARRL is attempting to make the hobby/service more enjoyable and meaningful for Techs and you are poo-pooing it!
For the most part, Techs have been relegated to repeater operation, which gets stale and boring after a short time. It's no wonder why many of them quit the hobby! There is little opportunity for them to get involved and grow. As for the ARRL using this as a ploy to gain more members, I disagree. If people don't want to join, noone is twisting their arm, no matter what the ARRL does. I believe that once the Techs are exposed to HF operation with limited privileges and discover how much fun it is, they will acquire the incentive to upgrade to General. This is how it used to be with the Novice Class years ago.
This proposal is also an excellent way to gain new blood into the hobby. Let's not be so short sighted and selfish to support our own agendas.
73, Gordy K1GB
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This is bumming me out............
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by N1VVD on November 9, 2005
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Well, I read most of these posts here and I had a couple questions:
Why do many of you talk of Technician Class operators like we are a bunch of stupid idiots?
I feel a lot of arrogance from reading this stuff.
As WA1RNE stated above, techs already have privledges above 50MHz and they use them respectfully.
Why would we not do the same on HF??
There are exceptions, but I hear hear exceptions today all over the HF bands.
I really don't understand why many folks feel if you can't do CW, you ain't a REAL HAM.
Just my 2 cents....
By the way, If you don't learn all about how IP works and be able to read IP traces, you can't use the internet.
Sound Familiar........................
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RE: This is bumming me out............
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by WR8D on November 9, 2005
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Ref N1VVD: Its human nature om. Many of us have honestly had some terrible episodes with new hams. Just a few of these types of experiances like i described up the thread and we all tend to group any person or persons together as the saying goes one bad apple. Its not about cw. Code speed will not make you a better or worse amateur. Its not the lack of knowing cw either at all. Its what you put out over the airwaves, how you conduct yourself etc. My advice for any new ham is get on the air and never say i'm a general lite or extra lite or they finally done away with the code now i'm a ham. Just put what ever type of station you want together and get on the air and talk with other hams. Don't start out with a chip on your shoulder believe me it will get knocked off real fast. Get on the bands and have a ball simple as that, make new friends. If the rules change and in a few months you become extra class, good for you. I'll work you on one of these crazy fuzzy modes or in one of the phone bands maybe someday. 73 Happy Thanksgiving.
John WR8D
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re: fcc
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by KI4FMJ on November 10, 2005
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is the fcc ever going to do anything . come on i have been a ham for about a year and guess what it is not going to change . if it is going to happen just change it and get it over with it. becasue i would like to find out and if i have to work harder for hf privilages.
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Meaningful Entry-Level License Privileges are Top
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by K3ROJ on November 14, 2005
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Many amateurs are asking everyone to boycott the ARRL if we loose our CW bands. They are already having problems in Europe with jamming and profane language from new amateurs. I am glad I didn't become a lifetime member as I almost did at retirement. Many of us including myself are avid CW operators and had to come up the hard way by learning the code. Because our schools and colleges (thanks to affirmative action)are dumbing down apparently means we must also walk the line?
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