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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

The VHF Gain Game

Alan Applegate (K0BG) on December 6, 2005
View comments about this article!

The VHF Gain Game

Basics

I have expounded about playing the Gain Game on this web site numerous times, as have others. Apparently that isn't enough as some amateurs just don't get the concept. This is an effort to further explain the concept in as simple of terms as possible.

As a prerequisite, it is necessary to understand several basic antenna terms, and what they relate to, but there is much more to it than what is presented here. This is why I recommend purchasing an ARRL Handbook, as no other publication has more amateur defined information within its covers. In other words, it's beyond the scope of this article to delve into dB any deeper than what follows. For the record, we're dealing with FM operation, which is typically mobile to repeater to mobile. Although there are a lot of direct mobile to mobile communications, in the big scheme of things, it's not as prevalent.

Antenna gain is measured in Decibels (the real term is Bel), which is named after Alexander Graham Bell, and expressed as dB. It is defined as a logarithmic unit of relative power measurement, and is expressed as a ratio. Like any other measurement, it must be referenced to some standard. There are two such standards commonly used when dealing with antennas. They are: dBi and dBd. The term dBi refers to dB gain over an isotropic source. An isotropic source is defined as an infinitely small, single point source with radiation being equal in every direction. The other term, dBd, is referenced to a dipole antenna in free space. In practical terms, there isn't such a thing as a free space dipole, but it is a good reference as we all know what a dipole is, or at least should.

When dealing with antenna gain, part of the confusion comes from the indiscriminate use of the term dB, without the requisite suffixes, i or d. Since there is a difference of approximately 2.5 dB, published figures without the suffix are misleading. Further, published gain figures may be referenced to some standard other than an isotropic or dipole source. In the case of one import antenna manufacturer, it is referenced to a typical handheld antenna. Read that as a Rubber Ducky, which sure puts new meaning into the term dBd! This is not just misleading, it borders on outright fraud. This propensity of the antenna industry to mislead potential purchasers is the main reason the ARRL does not publish antenna gain figures in its publications, unless such claims are properly documented.

The two drawings below are a loose representation of the antenna pattern of a quarter wave antenna, and a typical collinear antenna (a collinear in this context consists of several stacked elements with phasing coils in between). We're really not interested in how much gain the collinear has over the quarter wave, instead we're interested in the take off angle of the radiation. Properly designed, the collinear will have a lower take off angle. In very simple terms this is how an antenna "gets" gain; it compresses the radiation pattern, and typically (not always) lowers the angle as well.

Before we go any further, I have to repeat, this is an over simplification of what actually happens. The point I'm trying to make is this; the angle of radiation from a properly designed collinear antenna will be lower than a quarter wave antenna. But....

This oversimplification does not take into account several very important factors. First, most collinear antennas are far from optimum in their design, especially imported ones. And it doesn't take into account any inherent losses the aforementioned phasing coils may have. It also doesn't take into account its sturdiness or suitability (excessive length, mounting difficulties, etc.).

HAAT

The term HAAT stands for Height Above Average Terrain. Repeater licensees must include HAAT figures when applying for frequency allocations. This is done in an effort to minimize interaction between FM repeaters operating on the same frequency pair, but located a fair distance away from one another. In most cases, repeater licensees try to position their antennas at the maximum HAAT local terrain and interference overlaps will allow. This affords the maximum operating radius while minimizing dead spots in the coverage area.

\Mobile stations have HAAT too. Unfortunately, it isn't always optimum for maximum coverage. We also have to contend with our surroundings which include tall building, trees, other vehicles, dead spots, etc. This fact leads some uninformed amateurs to play the Gain Game.

In simple terms, the maximum distance a mobile can effectively communicate via a repeater (or mobile to mobile) has a lot more to do with location circumstances than antenna gain, output power, or HAAT of either one, albeit they have some impact. It's sort of like the old adage about the three most important attributes of commercial real estate; location, location, and location. We'll discount these factors for a moment and keep with our HAAT scenario.

Urban Areas

\I've done my best to place the drawings on the page to give the reader a good representation of real world circumstances between the repeater and a mobile HAAT. Depending on the width of your browser page, they may not be exactly as I intended them to be. With that in mind, we'll assume the top left drawing is a quarter wave antenna mounted on top of a vehicle of some sort. The drawing at the upper right is our repeater site.

\Extending the line which indicates the radiation takeoff angle of a quarter wave antenna, it appears to be optimum, and it is in the urban areas most of us drive in.

In comparison, the collinear antenna's take off angle is lower. If we extend its radiation takeoff angle, we'll see it's well below optimum with respect to the HAAT of the repeater's antenna. In other words, in an urban area the quarter wave antenna will have a better signal at the repeater site than the collinear antenna will.

Outlying Areas

I suspect one could present a good argument for more gain in a suburban area, and they might be correct. Again it depends on the HAAT of the mobile and the repeater, and giving a pat answer is a case of presumption. I've been operating FM mobile for well over 30 years, and I've never found a situation where additional gain would have appreciably added to the length of the communications path. This includes rural areas.

FM Radio is a wonderful mode of operation, and without doubt there are more FM amateur radios nowadays than there ever has been of all the other mode types put together. Nonetheless, FM has its limitations, and long distance mobile to mobile is one of them. You can increase the distance by increasing antenna gain and adding power amplifiers. However, within reason, these additions don't magically double or triple the length of a reliable communications path. In most cases, a 10% increase would be optimistic. If long distance mobile to mobile is required on a regular basis, one would be much better off switching to the SSB mode, and using horizontally polarize antennas like a halo or squalo.

Other considerations

Another rather important aspect deals more with the physical nature of the two types of antennas we're dealing with, and that is length. Remembering the prerequisite for the maximum HAAT, mounting a collinear antenna atop a vehicle to maximize its HAAT is nearly impossible due to its length. You can of course, but you'll be hitting just about every low hanging tree branch. Considering just how poorly made most collinear antennas are, the life span isn't going to be very long. Once you break it, the SWR goes too high to be used.

On the other hand, smack a quarter wave antenna and about all you'll do is bend it, and you might not even know unless you see it bent. Straighten it up, and you're back where you started. With the collinear, you'll be back too, but this time to the dealers buying another.

Currently, the most popular amateur FM mobile antenna is not a quarter wave, but Larsen's NMO2/70. It's gain? Who cares! It does its job very well, it is sturdy, and best of all it is short enough to be roof mounted with little concern of height above ground. If your garage door is too low or your vehicle has a sun roof, then mount it on the trunk lid. Performance wise, you'll never know the difference.

And speaking of mounts; Trunk lip mounts, bumper mounts, license plate mounts and similar schemes further negate what little advantage a collinear antenna might have. If you're a frequent visitor to the eham.net mobile forum, you know all of the facts concerning proper mounting. In short, if you want to have the longest communications path you can muster, then drill the proper hole.

A few last comments. The last time I looked, the NMO2/70 was selling for ¡Ö$60. Most of the imported collinear antennas are about $90 and up. I have an NMO2/70 mounted in the center of the trunk lid. This is the third vehicle I have had that antenna mounted on. It still looks new. One of my amateur friends in Denver, has an imported collinear mounted on the rear bumper of his 2004 Honda Civic. Last week he replaced the collinear for the fourth time, but this time with a Larsen. His comments to me via e-mail was a major driving force behind this article.

The other was the post asking for information on the highest gain 2 meter FM mobile antenna. Hopefully, I've addressed that person's post.

Alan Applegate, K0BG

www.k0bg.com

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
The VHF Gain Game  
by K5LXP on December 6, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I would add that antenna gain in a V/U FM mobile environment, even if truthfully represented, is vastly overrated.

Antenna location is of prime importance. I would rather have a 'zero gain' quarter wave on top of a tower than a mega-gain colinear near the ground. I can go to the nearby mountaintop and talk a hundred miles with an HT and a rubber ducky. Location is everything.

A truthful S-meter is 6dB per S-unit. A 5/8ths wave gain antenna has about 3dB of gain to the horizon. So what does that antenna really buy you? About half an S-unit, barely measurable. A quarter wave at one fourth the price will do everything a 5/8ths can do, and it won't get caught in the garage door opener, or the car wash.

Lastly, all mobile antennas work better when mounted in a 3/4" hole. :-)

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by K8MHZ on December 6, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I have to agree.

I used to have a 'high gain' 5/8 vertical on my van that was about 54" tall. I wanted to be able to park in the garage without fooling with the antenna so I replaced it with a 16" tall dual band antenna with no gain advertised. Guess what? I could not tell the difference nor could anyone I asked for signal reports from.

For mobile apps if the antenna doesn't push the signal back into the radio it probably works as good as any you can stick on the roof.

So it seems that a gain in field strength measured close to your mobile rig may mean nothing several miles away. Also, a HIGHER angle of radiation may mean a better working antenna if the surrounding objects are such that a lower angle shoots the RF into them.

73,

Mark K8MHZ
 
here is wonderful proof of advertising BS.  
by N3JBH on December 6, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
i copied this directly from the web site listed.

http://smileyantenna.com

5/8 Slim Duck Antenna 2 meter
[20] $20.00


5/8 Slim Duck 3 to 7 db gain flexible base loaded antenna, manufactured tough enough for the military and aesthetically pleasing for the consumer. Available in VHF and UHF frequencies, utilizing the Tuned Antenna's one piece MPQ-2000 Space Age covering system. Available from 136 - 174 MHz This new flex coil matching network provides at band center low SWR as well as a +or - 5 MHz band center. (Example an antenna tuned at 146 as the band center, the antenna will perform the same between 141-151 MHz.) For custom frequency call 1-800-527-5439 or email sales@smileyantenna.com. 12"

notice 7 db gain !!! thats serious gain folks. dont buy a yagi just mount one these rubber ducky's on your tower. what a load of crap.
 
RE: here is wonderful proof of advertising BS.  
by N3ZKP on December 6, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Of course, Alan will know that I agree with him. :)

After installing antennas on various kinds of vehicles for the past 40 years, I agree completely with what Alan says, especially about antenna mounting.

Most of my installations have been for land mobile and public safety radios, with amateur thrown in the past nine or ten years since I got back into the hobby. Over that time I installed two brands - Antenna Specialists and Larsen, with the latter being used exclusively the past 15 years. While both make antennas suitable for Amateur Radio, they are primarily aimed at the professional market.

My NMO270B (black, open coil) is on it's third vehicle and has a little over 250,000 miles on it with hardly a scratch (unless you look REAL close) and no decrease in performance. The same goes for the 6m monobander.

As I have stated repeatedly in the Mobile forum, if the Japanese antennas were any good, the land mobile / PS shops would be using them and they aren't. If the UHF mounts were any good, the land mobile / PS shops would be using them and they aren't. If anything other than NMO mounts were any good ... well, you get the idea.

If you want real performance, use what the professionals use and mount them like the professionals. Amateur Radio doesn't mean you have to settle for expensive, amateurish junk.

73,

Lon - N3ZKP
Baltimore, Maryland
 
The VHF Gain Game  
by N5EAT on December 6, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
This is such good advice, especially for a new ham. We here in the hilly part of Alabama have known about the advantage of a 1/4 wave antenna over almost anything else since we were licensed. A longer antenna with a compressed donut will basically radiate directly into the large iron ore deposits in the surrounding hills. However, having driven up interstate 65 to Michigan often, I have made great use of higher gain antennas in "flatland". So, if you live in the plains, get what you want. If you don't, you can't beat the 1/4 wave on the roof of your vehicle.
 
RE: The VHF Gain Game Chain Gang Cling Clang  
by KC8VWM on December 6, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

I have primarily used a Larson dual band 5/8 wave on my mobile military reconnaissance vehicle (AKA Jeep Cherokee)for a few years but recently discovered that a shorter 1/4 wave Motorola whip doesn't go "cling clang screeech - thud - waddle waddle" every time I arrive at home when driving through my garage door.

I later discovered that even a 1/4 wave 2 meter antenna can exhibit a decent VSWR on 70cm. Since both antennas had the same antenna mount I decided to try a test one day.

I was driving along the highway with my wife and decided that a good cover for my test was that I should be thoughtful and ask her if we needed to stop to use the facilities.

So while she was shopping at the vending machines at the rest stop I switched my radio to a known repeater that was located about 70 miles away from me at the time, according to my GPS anyways. I was using a 5 watt commercial HT radio in a convertacom arrangement in my vehicle.

I had both antennas with me in the back and I switched them back and forth calling a friend of mine. The 19.2" 1/4 wave whip was a little noisier than the 54" Larson antenna but if a person didn't poke their left ear in the direction of the radio speaker, you probably wouldn't notice much difference.

This brought me to the conclusion that this extra ounce of RF from 70 miles way wasn't worth the paint that was now missing off the inside of my garage door. ...Which of course was all the wifes fault for not taking the antenna off the vehicle in the first place. I would never forget to do such a thing myself. ...But of course that's a story for another message forum over on divorce.com

Good article and nice to read similar observations from others.

73 Charles - KC8VWM
 
The VHF Gain Game  
by N3QT on December 6, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Once again, wonderful article!!!

Concur:
Larsen's NMO2/70 should be a benchmark.

Would also suggest Austin 500 C (soft tip) for urban areas. 1/4 wave on 2m and 5/8 wave on 70 cm. ($30).
I have been in and out of parking garages for years. No problems. "Hole Mounted -NMO".

Read About it @:
http://www.rfwiz.com/AustinAntenna/AustinAntenna500C_Series.htm
 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by N6AJR on December 6, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I don't have a problem with a trunk mount, but the difference is #1 I always run a good ground from the shield side of the mount through a self tapping sheet metal screw into the frame of the car near the antenna, and I also run a ground from the radio, to the floor of the car..

# 2 I also inspect it every couple of weeks for problems.

I usually run a diamond k400 c, and most of the time I use a 12 or 14 inch tall whip with the curly cue in the middle for 2/440 and I also have an atas 120 for long trips I switch out for hf, even mounted on the trunk the atas is too tall for the garage... I am running this with ft 857 d . I use a similar setup for the other car. it also has a ft 857 d

in the truck I use a DK-3 for hf and a diamond tribander for the rest. I run a ft 847 in the pickup.

I find a nmo mount is superior but I go through vehicles so often I turn to the trunk lip mount.

as far as gain goes. there is a super video tape from ARRL on antennas. this fellow has a 3 ghz oscillator and puts on a bunch of minature antennas and shows patterns and gain and polerazation. its on the same tape with the spark gap transmitters.. a good read.

 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by W4CNG on December 6, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Drilled thru the roof beats ALL other configurations for VHF/UHF Mobile antennas. Larsen has the best mounts and single or dual band antennas period. Most of you will never grace the inside of a "Commercial Radio Facility" but if you get a chance just look and see what is used for VHF/UHF communications antennas and the HOLE that is DRILLED in the vehicle. Anything else just does not measure up. All said and done here.

Steve W4CNG Have Drill and better Mobile Antennas than most. Anything less is a "Wet Noodle".
 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by W8JI on December 6, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Hi Alan,

Very nice article but three points:

1.) dBd is NORMALLY referred to a dipole at the same mean height as the array under test. In other words if I have a collinear antenna that has one element at 50 feet and one at 100 feet, the dBd gain is normally referenced to a dipole at about 71 feet.

You can't simply remove 2.1 from dBi and get dBd. Doesn't work. The dipole has to be at the same mean height as the tested array. My 40 meter Yagi over earth has about 16 dBi gain. The dBd gain is NOT 14 dBd, it is more like 7dBd.

2.) Wave angle or TO angle is meaningless by itself. It is the *absolute gain at the desired angle* that is important, not TO angle.

3.) EZnec and other amateur modeling programs normally consider pattern at an "infinite" distance from the source over flat earth. This is why they have virtually zero FS at zero degrees, even with a vertical antenna. The pattern you see is NOT the real pattern at shorter distances, it is the pattern a very long distance (long enough to be considered infinite) from the antenna. We have to remember that quirk when dealing with ground wave or very low wave angle signals "close in" signals.

73 Tom
 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by AA4PB on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
If my math is correct, and the repeater is located 5 miles away at a height of 500 feet and the terrain is flat, the angle above the horizon from the mobile is about 1 degree. For the angle to be 45 degrees, the mobile would have to be located only 500 feet from the base of the repeater tower. Once you get any distance at all between the mobile and the repeater, the ideal take off angle is going to be only a few degrees above the horizon.

This would lead you to believe that a lower take off angle is better. In practice however, I agree with Alan that it really doesn't matter much and in some cases the 1/4 wave does a better job. I expect that is because the vertical lobe is much broader. In the real world there are many variables. The vehicle may not be sitting on flat ground, for example. The broader vertical lobe covers more of the variable conditions.
 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by K0BG on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Thank you for your comments and corrections Tom, which supports my comments about over-simplification of the real issues involved.

There is one other topic I'd like to cover in depth, but personally I think it would be a waste of time; and that is the DC, RF, and ground plane misunderstanding far too many amateur have. This is quite obvious the case as evidenced in a previous post to this article. Perhaps this is a topic you'd like to tackle (if you had the time).

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
 
The VHF Gain Game  
by N0GV on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Very nice general treatise. Thanks! I would add only the following points:

1) FM capture is much less graceful about weak signal falloff than ssb is.

2) Power without receive gain is worthless. The best receive gain is a good antenna. A 13 element yagi on your Hummer would be peachy but the blasted rotor is a pain ;-)! Hence a receive preamp is a must!

As an example our highest local repeater here in Miami Florida (at 1500' Receive and 1400' Xmit) has a radio horizon (line of sight + 10%) of about 57 miles to a mobile with 25 watts required for acceptable quality at that distance into a 1/4 wave antenna mounted at 6' on the roof of a SUV (hole mounted).

A 62" claimed 5 dBi gain antenna gets you out to about 62-65 miles and a Lakeview Co-linear (72" long, gain 4.5 dBi) mounted in the same hole will make it out to 65-67 miles. All on 50 watts with 95-100% readability from a stationary vehicle....

Going from 50 watts to 350 watts gets you better quality and about 10% greater range to about 70 miles from the collinear (the 62" antenna fails the smoke test at 200 Watts ;-)). Moving on to a pair of in-phase driven 5 dBi 62" whips spaced 1/2 wavelength apart we have a directional gain of 7.8 dBi in theory and a measured field strength difference of over 8 dB in the main lobe vs a single antenna of the same type with an off axis (90 degrees) null depth of over 20 dB in the modelling program and well over 10 dB in the measured response at 20m (all measurements are at 20m distance = 10 wavelengths at 0 degrees elevation thus nominally far field). Distance from this to the reference repeater is reliable to well in excess of 80 miles in flat terrain w/out obstructions over land and if the 1st 2 miles are over water to a distance of over 120 miles with 350 watts fed to the array with no tropo ducting!

In a pinch I can sit in Miami on an East-West road and bring up (and converse with folks on)the Naples repeater which is 80 miles away and at about 800' (I think) with the latter rig. Cannot even cause it to kerchunk with the 1/4 wave the 4.5 dBi collinear or the single 5 dBi gain dualbander.

So -- in essence to add 33% range to a 1/4 wave antenna you need to up the antenna gain by 5.5 dBi and boost the power by 8 dB with a recieve preamp gain of over 15 dB (preamp claimed gain). Total Xmit signal gain is a factor of 20 (13 dB) and recieve gain is a factor of 200 (23 dB)! In most cases this makes zero sense -- here in Miami with our hurricanes and himacanes ( ;-) ) it can mean the ability to have a link across the state to a repeater that is still functional if needed.

Hope you all find this interesting....

Grover Larkins
N0GV

 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by WB2WIK on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
On VHF and UHF, you can actually make real-world measurements to support all kinds of stuff.

I was well-known for being especially annoying for a couple of days back in the early 80's when I ran continuous "two meter whip antenna" tests from a beach location at the Jersey shore, chosen because it was dead flat, alongside the ocean, with the nearest terrain rise miles away. Perfect natural antenna range.

I used a 2m rig with a direct limiter output driving a huge analog meter calibrated in dBm, using calibrated standards in the lab at home. The rig's limiter output indicated readable changes even at above -70 dBm or so, and down to the noise at about -127 dBm. I could resolve about 1 dB anywhere on the scale, and less than that mid-scale.

So, I mapped out a large circle I could drive around in on the beach without getting the local cops too interested. It was probably a 300 foot diameter circle, that driven once, left permanent marks in the sand so it could be repeatedly driven until a high tide might wipe out the marks.

I'd try "antenna 1," key up sixteen known repeaters at various distances and log signal readings around the cirle. This would be 48 to 96 readings. Then, I'd remove "antenna 1" and try "antenna 2," and do the same thing. And then antenna 3, and 4, and 5, 6 and so forth.

I always identified so people on the repeaters knew who was annoying them. If a repeater was in use, I didn't have to key up at all, I could just log the signal strength readings.

Obviously, this "one way" test involved only taking received signal data and nobody reporting back to me what my own signal strength was; but it should be very reciprocal.

Interesting results, which I published directly into my "VHF" column in CQ magazine at the time. Three of my "test antennas" were actually all the same antenna, just changing the mounting position on the car. It was a Larsen 5/8-wave whip NMO-150 base. The best position was always screwed into a permanent NMO fitting in the center of the roof of the car. Second best was always screwed into a permanent NMO fitting in the center of the trunk lid of the car. Worst positions were everywhere else: Fender, trunk lip -- anywhere. Noplace was nearly as good as the center of the roof, and the difference was as much as several dB.

When you're dealing with this kind of huge and obvious difference, making decisions on mobile whips based on "antenna gain" seems ridiculous. You can get more gain by placing the antenna in the center of the roof than you can by doing anything else. The Hustler CG-144, which is a colinear whip that's 7/8-wavelength long overall (very tall), did well but I couldn't mount it in the roof center (it's not NMO, it's 3/8-24) so I could only mount it on a trunk lip, fender or ball mount. It averaged 3-4 dB below the Larsen in the center of the roof, but that was much better than any other whip that wasn't mounted in the center of the roof, so pretty impressive.

Bumper mounts, license plate mounts and other stuff that brings the feedpoint of the whip down below the trunk lid are all horrible for 2m work.

The 5/8-Larsen in the center of the roof could consistently key up the repeater up on Mt. Greylock, MA (146.91), more than 200 miles away, when that same antenna installed anywhere else on the car, or any other antenna tested, couldn't key it up at all.

WB2WIK/6





 
The VHF Gain Game  
by WA1RNE on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I wouldn't overlook 1/2 wave verticals, both roof and glass mounted versions. I've had excellent results with both.


The 1/2 wave vertical will focus more signal above other surrounding objects. Some OEM's state that in Marine trials, they have found it is less prone to fading from the whip bending in high winds or from a boat pitching back and forth.


They are also smaller than 5/8 wave antennas and work as well or better.


73, Chris
 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by KC8VWM on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
You can get more gain by placing the antenna in the center of the roof than you can by doing anything else.

----

Interesting test. I also support the idea that antenna gain is only as good as antenna location on any given vehicle.

If I were to compare my 1/4 wave antenna and my 5/8 wave antenna based on reading the specifications alone, the Larson antenna would most certainly beat the pants off any 1/4 wave whip every time.

However in the real world a simple 1/4 wave antenna mounted correctly on the center of vehicle roof seems to work as well as my Larson "gain" antenna that is installed near the back corner of my vehicle.

The 1/4 wave antenna has a more uniform omni directional pattern when compared to the location of the Larson 5/8 antenna. In fact, I would bet that a quick comparison test between the two antennas would reveal that the 1/4 wave antenna will outperform the higher gain 5/8 Larson antenna in certain fringe areas that are in certain directions away from the vehicle.

So yes I would have to agree..., it's about location, location, location.

73 Charles - KC8VWM
 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by WB2WIK on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
>The VHF Gain Game Reply
by WA1RNE on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I wouldn't overlook 1/2 wave verticals, both roof and glass mounted versions. I've had excellent results with both.
The 1/2 wave vertical will focus more signal above other surrounding objects. Some OEM's state that in Marine trials, they have found it is less prone to fading from the whip bending in high winds or from a boat pitching back and forth.
They are also smaller than 5/8 wave antennas and work as well or better.<

::The only trouble with 1/2-wave verticals is that they're end-fed, where the feedpoint impedance is sky-high; thus, they require matching networks. Matching a 5/8-wave whip to a 50 Ohm line isn't difficult, it's a simple, small-ratio step-down transformer. Matching a 1/2-wave whip to a 50 Ohm line is a tougher job: It's a high-ratio step-up network, and the voltage across the feedpoint (to ground) can be fairly, high, even at "mobile" power levels (~548 Vpk for a 75W mobile carrier), making the "base insulator" a more critical component than it is with a 1/4-wave or 5/8-wave. It's also tougher to maintain the required insulation when the insulator gets wet.

-WB2WIK/6




 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by WA9SVD on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
It wasn't stated or clarified in an above response, but some "on air" signal reports are misleading if not useless. If changing antennas and asking for a signal report, it's important that any comparison be made using SIMPLEX! Operating through a repeater and getting a signal strength report is merely an indication of the repeater's signal, not the signal going in! "OH, you have a strong signal, pinning my meter, but your are real scratchy..." (Too many hams forget that...)
 
The VHF Gain Game  
by WA1KWA on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Good points. Also, be careful about getting excited over db numbers, remember, there is dbi (compared to an isotropic radiator); dbd (compared to a dipole), etc. This is a big reason why QST never published advertisements with antenna gain figures, until recently (and now only if they are verifiable, if I understand correctly) Make sure you compare apples to apples.

It's like "90% OFF!" Off what?

6db GAIN!!! Compared to what?

73,

Colin WA1KWA
 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by VO1NO on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I should point out that a Decibel is actually one tenth of a Bel. Because the Bel is a power ratio of 10, a fairly large ratio, the engineers at Bell Telephone Labs found it more convenient to use tenths of a Bel, naming the new units Decibels.

73
Al
VO1NO / VE3
 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by WB2WIK on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
There's the decibel, of course.

There's also the Clarabel, just clowning around.

The Libertybel, no longer used because it's cracked.

The Dingdongbel, closely related to the Doorbel.

And if you operate 75m SSB, you're likely familiar with the Artbel, who hangs out on 3840.
 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by KC8VWM on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I am on a bell curve about this subject of antennas. Looks like I won't be getting the no bell prize anytime soon.

Not to jingle anyones bells, but I have a date with Quasimoto, so I guess I am off to Taco bell.







 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by WB2WIK on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: The VHF Gain Game Reply
by KC8VWM on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Not to jingle anyones bells, but I have a date with Quasimoto, so I guess I am off to Taco bell.<

::Did you know Taco Bell was the first Mexican telephone company? (Oh, I just crack myself up.)

::Not to be confused with Alexander Graham Belkowalski, the first Telephone Pole. <ouch>

Okay, I'm done.

WB2WIK/6

 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by WA9SVD on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
How many dB gain does an isotropic radiator have over a dummy load? (Inquiring [and twisted] minds want to know!)

Please show your calculations.
 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by W1NK on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
*Groan*

I hope Steve and Charles' postas aren't a **bellwether** of where these posts are headed!

Oh No! Now I'm doing it! Must.....not.....click....post......
 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by W8JI on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
The real reason a 5/8th wave antenna does not exhibit the gain claimed is entirely due to the groundplane.

It is virtually never a wave angle issue with the repeater antenna being "too high" and the antenna having too low of a wave angle. Just do the math and look at the angles!!

A 5/8th wave antenna has 3dB gain over a 1/4 wl antenna ONLY when the groundplane is perfectly flat, located at the base of the antenna, is nearly solid conductive metal, and extends out for a few wavelengths in every direction. Remove that perfect flat conductive groundplane and the 5/8th has LOSS over a 1/4 wl antenna when both have four drooped radials.

What Hams and manufacturers have done is assume the gain comes from the element length, but it does not. The gain comes exclusively because the 5/8th wave has a current maximum (radiation center) 3/8th wave above the groundplane, and the reflection from the groundplane at low incident angles is in the correct phase to form a null at high angles in the far field.

When you remove that large flat nearly infinite highly conducting groundplane 3/8th wave below the current maximum point, the gain vanishes.

5/8th wave antennas over real earth work so poorly that AM BC stations with 100 radials in the ground found them to be less effective than 1/2 wl antennas (which are only marginally better than 1/4 wl antennas).

That's why you find most AM BC stations of newer design using radiators just over 1/4 wl tall.

The real reason a 1/4 wl whip is about the same as a 5/8th wave antenna is the car roof is too small in radius to be an effective groundplane, not because of the wave angles.

Take the metal car roof away and mount the 5/8th on a tower and it can actually have negative gain along the horizon! That's why you almost never see commercial 5/8th wave antennas. It's only a Ham and CB fantasy antenna.

73 Tom
 
The VHF Gain Game  
by N0AH on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Hi Alan,

I'll save you the BORING blah blah blah and just leave you three points to consider:

Excellent research
Outstanding format
Enjoyable reading

Thank you-

73 Paul









 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by WA1RNE on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"The only trouble with 1/2-wave verticals is that they're end-fed, where the feedpoint impedance is sky-high; thus, they require matching networks. Matching a 5/8-wave whip to a 50 Ohm line isn't difficult, it's a simple, small-ratio step-down transformer. Matching a 1/2-wave whip to a 50 Ohm line is a tougher job: It's a high-ratio step-up network, and the voltage across the feedpoint (to ground) can be fairly, high, even at "mobile" power levels (~548 Vpk for a 75W mobile carrier), making the "base insulator" a more critical component than it is with a 1/4-wave or 5/8-wave. It's also tougher to maintain the required insulation when the insulator gets wet."


>> These issues might occur with a poorly designed homebrew antenna, but I've never experienced any of the issues you've described with manufacturers of high quality 1/2 wave mobile antennas, i.e. Larsen, Antenna Specialists, etc.

Check out Larsen's MHW series rated at 200 watts, catalog page 71:

http://www.radialllarsen.com/docfiles/ASB6/Mobile/ASB6MobileVHF136174.pdf



73, Chris
 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by WB2WIK on December 8, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
>by WA1RNE on December 7, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
>> These issues might occur with a poorly designed homebrew antenna, but I've never experienced any of the issues you've described with manufacturers of high quality 1/2 wave mobile antennas, i.e. Larsen, Antenna Specialists, etc.
Check out Larsen's MHW series rated at 200 watts, catalog page 71:
http://www.radialllarsen.com/docfiles/ASB6/Mobile/ASB6MobileVHF136174.pdf<

::I took a look at those and must admit I've never tried them; I don't think they were on the market back in '84 or so when I was doing all my testing. But one thing that turns me off (and I'll call to see if they can tell my why this is) is that they only offer that particular antenna in the PO/SO239 mount, and not NMO. I really dislike the PO/SO239 mount, as it's "high profile" compared with an NMO and really not as good in many ways. (I've used them and always went back to Motorola/NMO.) When you unscrew the whip, the mount sticks up noticeably. With an NMO, it doesn't. I've installed many NMO mounts on leased cars and nobody has ever said a word when I turn them in...

::But looks interesting, and maybe I'll try one out. Thanks!

WB2WIK/6



 
RE: The VHF Gain Game  
by TG9AKH on December 8, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
One fellow wrote about SmileyAntenney rubbery ducky... "notice 7 db gain !!! thats serious gain folks. dont buy a yagi just mount one these rubber ducky's on your tower. what a load of crap."

SmileyAntenney told me THEY MEASURE GAIN IN dBd (decibels over a dummy load).

Another of my friends wrote: "How many dB gain does an isotropic radiator have over a dummy load? (Inquiring [and twisted] minds want to know!)"

Believe me,... it's plenty. If the isotropic radiator is manufactured by the great people of SmileyAntenney, it's even more than plain vanilla plenty. Let's just say, plenty many more GiGaBels of gain. An it's TeraBels if you are buying an extended rubber ducky made by Smiley.

BTW, SmileyAntenney claim their rubbery ducky also makes coffee, presses your business suits, reads your mind and pefectly forecasts the stock market. And you can buy one with a 99% discount (God knows over what base price). And it comes in 567 different colors and shades, and a wide choice of shapes and sizes. Note they have more flavors than Ben & Jerry! How can you miss this opportunity?

There's also a designer Ralph Lauren version that sells with a 97% discount (over an unknown base price, of course) with additional choice of 25 textures. This one is not only stylish but also has 8 dBd gain.

What are you waiting for? We're running out! Come get yours NOW! The first twenty five buyers get signed versions of the rubbery ducky annteney.*



*Subject to availability.
 
RE: The Gain Game  
by W9WHE-II on December 9, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Here is how I calculate ACTUAL DbD GAIN from an antenna advertisment:

If the AD is for a CB antenna, subtract 6 db from the manufacturer's claim. i.e. 8.1 db of "CB gain" equates to 2.1 db ACTUAL GAIN.

If the AD is for a ham antenna, subtract 3 db from the manufacturer's claim. i.e. 5.1 db of "ham gain" equates to 2.1 db of ACTUAL GAIN.

My favorite claim was the fibergalss 1/2 wave vertical that claimed 12.8 db of gain because the entire antenna radiates!


W9WHE
 
RE: The Gain Game  
by AI4KK on December 13, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
While I agree that the gain probably doesn't matter, I do have both a 1/4-wave and a 5/8th wave on my wife's car and switch back and forth often and have noticed less fading and picket-fencing on the 5/8th. Is this due to something resembling diversity reception with the longer whip? ie where the whole antenna isn't in a null spot at the same time, so I can still hear the repeater?
 
RE: The Gain Game  
by N6GSO on December 14, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I have a slight twist. I need an antenna that works well in the ham band and up to 152mhz. (I use a Spectra). What is the best for wide freq coverage? Has anyone used the Antenex wide band antennas?

Thanks
Russ
 
RE: The Gain Game  
by AI4KK on December 14, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I have the Antenex antenna made for CAP and love it. Good performance and very wide-banded. Haven't compared it back-to-back to my 1/4w mag-mount, but that wouldn't be a fair comparison as it is hole-mounted, not stuck on.

One point about the gain antennas and mountains etc is that I doubt most of us live in the shadow of a huge mountain with the repeater on top of it. Here in FL (along with most of AL and GA and probably the otherstates as well), you want as much going at the horizon as possible.

Of course, even if the repeater is on top of a mountain, by the time it's angle is outside your primary gain pattern (which is going to be more than just a few degrees above horizontal unless you have a 16-bay repeater antenna on your car's roof), it's close enough that it probably doesn't really matter.
 
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