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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

Time for Unification

jeff (N3JBH) on December 16, 2005
View comments about this article!


Time for unification

Hello fellow amateur radio operators. I guess what I am ultimately asking here is why there has to be such a deep division among the classes and ranks of the amateur radio operators?

Folks as I look over the various bands and modes of operation allotted to us in this hobby. I can see a large and very open field for experimentation rather it be aimed towards the advancement of amateur radio it self or for personal curiosity. And I realize that with certain class of license comes new and expanded spectrum for folks to operate in.

And please believe me if I was really interested in the hf spectrum I would not be happy till I held the amateur extra license. But what I personally enjoy is the rather unique surprises that await me when the vhf and uhf bands open. There is so many interesting phenomena's that occur up here in this area.

Nothing thrills me more then the unexpected surprise of the band opening to an unknown location. By one other various factors the influence the vhf / uhf spectrum. So yes folks I am a technician class operator some say I am a no code tech. I guess that's true. If you consider I don't need to know Morse code to get this class license. But I also wonder what they call me being I use Morse code on more then half my qso's.

Now don't get me wrong here folks. I believe that amateur radio is a fantastic hobby. And I very much admire those who have reached the pinnacle of the license class.

But what I respect most is the fact. That when we can all get along and share the talents and knowledge each other with out causing any unnecessary insult's derogatory remark's.

Towards the class of the other operator.

Ok by now sounds like I am whining about myself. I will admit I am sorry about that. But what I really am talking about here folks is all the bashing you see on the sites such as this and on the radio it self. What we need to remember is we are unified by the same desire to be on the radio. To communicate with each other.

So what we are faced with here is a hobby steeped in tradition. With many hams whom have settled into there ways. And a new group of hams coming in to this marvelous hobby wish to experiment with new technologies and explore new modes. But what has sadly happened is the fact that the old school hams feel there going loose tradition. And some the new school thinks we should do away with the old school ways.

Well what I say is every one chill out. I personally am a follow that loves tradition and thinks there is nothing wrong with the old school. But I also realize that there nothing wrong with advancement either. So I say to you all can we not find a way to support both the old school and new school thinking? I think we can.

Also I like to remind you all of a couple interesting facts also. Fcc rule and that (97-1)

And it reads as.

97.1 basis and purpose.

The rules and regulations in this part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles

  1. Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service. Particuly with respect to providing emergency communications.

  2. Continuation and extension of the amateurs proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

  3. Encouragement and improvement of the amateur radio service through rules, which provide for advancing the skills in both the communications and technical phase of the are.

  4. Expansion of the existing reservoir with the amateur radio service of trained operators technicians and electronic experts.

  5. Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.

And folks that last one about good will I say is most important. As if the rest of the world hears such nonsense as all this bickering has been on the bands. How our they ever going take us serious in the future. We all know the FCC is about to make new legislation soon dropping the Morse code exam. Please don't let a simple law be what divides us. Our tradition and out future are both to valuable for this. Thanks every for bearing through another poorly written and horribly spelled article. I realize I need better English and all. But I believe you all get the point.

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
Time for Unification  
by N4QX on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Fine post, Jeff. No amateur worth his salt judges himself or another amateur by the class of license he holds. Getting enjoyment from the license you have is the important thing. And that's going to be the case regardless of how the morse testing proceeding turns out.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by WB2WIK on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Judge by the class of the person, not the class of his license.

Still, it pays to upgrade simply to maximize your fun.

If you're so busy having fun in ham radio that it doesn't matter, then you've already accomplished the goal most of us have.

WB2WIK/6
 
Time for Unification  
by W8AD on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Great post Jeff. Well put comments and you're "right on". I've been a ham since 1950, and the flamers and trolls and narrow minded mean folks seem to be in abundance more than ever. However, don't let them deter your spirit or get you down. What you are saying is "what, who and how" this wonderful hobby should be comprised of.

It's a wonderful hobby that has brought most us a lifetime of pleasure. I wish more of the hams were like you. Particularly the old albatross's who seem bent on "putting down" newbies and casting slurs on most everything and everybody. I was a newbie once (I was 14 years old then) and got lots of help and encouragement from the "then" old timers. Those great folks didn't put me down although I made all the mistakes of someone wet behind the ears. I don't know where all this meanness and narrow minded thinking has come from over the recent years, but don't listen to it. They are a minority (but vocal) and it probably exists in every hobby. Those are truly unhappy anti-social folks who should be pittied (but I agree, they are an embarrassment).

In fact, ham radio has been such an important part of my life since high school, it led me to a formal college education in Electronic Engineering and allowed to have a wonderful career in the field. Yes, ham radio can be that important. Other friends of mine have shared the same experience

Now, here is the REAL problem with all the nasty folks out there: With all the FCC has to do these days with all the cutting edge wireless, wired, internet, space technology, commercial broadcast, federal regulatory laws governing such things, and their interface with all the wireless and wired commercial and government business entities, can you imagine how they'll see ham radio if all this non-sensical, immature complaining keeps going on?

They could just as easily say, "we don't have the patience for these idiots anymore. They are just little thorns in our sides. Let's just pull the plug on the whole thing." It could happen. This is not 50 years ago when the complaints were not much more than AM vs SSB and the FCC didn't have near the complexities to deal with as they do now.

This problem has nothing to do with code vs no code, "dumbing down" the tests or what frequencies and bandwidths should the newbies and others be on. This stuff is so minor to the FCC it isn't even on their "radar screens". The problem has everything to do with those who have become an embarrassment to the international community and to the FCC itself. The issues stated above can easily be worked out and resolved if we'd all work together like ladies and gentlemen. Of course, the narrow minded egos would have to be set aside. Quite a challenge for some!

Jeff, you're right on. Hang in there and have a WONDERFUL life long hobby with great new friends and assistance from everyone. You'll find the really nice folks out there.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year !!!

Don, W8AD
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by W6TH on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
.

Jeff, you must be talking of the SSB and the phone operators. Yes, I agree there is no unification amongst the phone operators.

This leaves us CW operators out of your theory as we CW operators are well unified, a unified utility system is what we use.

W6TH
.:
 
Time for Clarification  
by AI2IA on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I am glad to see this matter presented as it is.

I, for one, believe that the grades of license (currently tech, general, and extra) are intended to encourage amateur radio operators to advance in their knowledge of the technical aspects of radio communication. As an extra, I don't look upon the grades of license as a caste system, and I'm sure that they were never intended to be that way. I am happy to be an extra because of the extended privileges it gives me, but also because it gave me an opportunity to go over all the material leading up to this level of privilege and absorb some amount of it. It is both the privileges and the knowledge that each step up brings to the amateur that increases the value of amateur radio to him.

I worked many years with VHF and UHF communications, and I am very fond of these bands, but I would like to see all amateurs continue their study of amateur radio, even if they may not have an interest in HF. It is the rounding out of the amateur, so to speak.

Now as to all these "traditions" that attach to amateur radio, they have their place, but it is decidedly wrong for so many hams to get completely wrapped up in them. We would all be better off if all of us tried to put skills first (including learning skills for fun and fulfilment), and "traditions" second (as just nice things to have around).
 
RE: Time for Clarification  
by KG4RUL on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
by W6TH on December 16, 2005

Jeff, you must be talking of the SSB and the phone operators. Yes, I agree there is no unification amongst the phone operators.

This leaves us CW operators out of your theory as we CW operators are well unified, a unified utility system is what we use.

W6TH

==============

SEE, the first one to drive a wedge is a CW operator. These are the supposed gentlemen of Amateur Radio?
 
RE: Time for Clarification  
by W6TH on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
.

kg4rul
SEE, the first one to drive a wedge is a CW operator. These are the supposed gentlemen of Amateur Radio?
---------------------------------------------------


See the first one to drive a wedge is a phone operator.

These are the supposed gentlemen of Amateur Radio?

W6TH
.:
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KG6WLS on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Great job Jeff. I wouldn't be too hard on yourself about spelling or grammer (with two M's)...we've all seen worse in here.

Here's another one that comes to mind and pops up every so often:

The Radio Amateur's Code

CONSIDERATE = never knowingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others.

LOYAL = offers loyalty, encouragement and support to other amateurs, local clubs, and the American Radio Relay League, through which Amateur Radio in the United States is represented nationally and internationally.

PROGRESSIVE = with knowledge abreast of science, a well-built and efficient station and operation above reproach.

FRIENDLY = slow and patient operating when requested; friendly advice and counsel to the beginner; kindly assistance, cooperation and consideration for the interests of others. These are the hallmarks of the amateur spirit.

BALANCED = radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed to family, job, school or community.

PATRIOTIC = station and skill always ready for service to country and community.

And Don (W8AD), your first six paragraphs hits home. Us new folks look for a little nudge in the right direction at times without the flames. But, there are those that will perform a long winded butt solo (no offense intended)...and makes one wonder "why did I get involved and invest with a hobby where grown ups slam one another"?

I got into this hobby/service for my own enjoyment a little late in life. I was (still am) a casual SWL'er, kit/homebrew builder, tinkerer, electrician, and automotive buff. I've picked up most of the ARRL hand books that I think is one of the better investments, next to an antenna. I'll read before I post a question because I know what kind of thoughtful remarks I'll receive Hi Hi.

Dumbing down? I never personally asked for it. I bought the book, studied, took the test, passed, and went to work on my station. I'm currently getting ready for the upgrade AND the -.-. .-- - . ... - You won't see a massive antenna farm at my CC&R QTH, But I've logged 70 DX openings on 6 meters. Forty confirmed QSL cards.

If I'm enjoying it, not causing harmful interference to others, and operate with good practices, who cares what the "flamers and trolls and narrow minded mean folks and insurgents" think. Why am I even in here posting this? :P

Please pardon any misspelling, grammer, or improper punctuation that I may have presented. Continue on.

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!!
(Happy Non-Denominational Winter Holiday to all the others)

73
Mike


 
RE: Time for Clarification  
by ERNESTTHOMPSONEXK4EAT on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
by W6TH

"This leaves us CW operators out of your theory as we CW operators are well unified, a unified utility system is what we use"

What the heck are you talking about???

I use CW virtually all the time and have been part of heated discussions as to what is right or wrong with this hobby - not everyone using CW is of the same mold or mindset.

You, W6TH, are the type that simply likes to stir the fire and cuase trouble.

 
RE: Time for Unification  
by WR8D on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Good article Jeff. I honestly wish things could be differant but they're just not. I don't know if its the times, the generation gap, society or what ever the reason may be. Here locally we're usually over run by the dregs of the earth. They refuse to be elmered. Elmers are still around just like the older days. They come into the hobby with the mind set of a child in an adult body. Many waste their time studying and getting a license to only want to qrm and cause trouble as they still do on cb. I'm called snob, repeater boss etc because i refuse to let them get on my machines and not id themselves with their amateur call signs. They want to use their cb handles. This is not the main reason for the split but it is about the same story we hear in some places. Folks just don't get on here and talk about it. Imagine trying to elmer in a kind way and being cussed out and told they know more about radio than a ham thats been licensed 35 years. The one doing the cussing came off cb with 15 years of that crap under his belt. I congratulate you for working cw. I hope you find as i do that on that mode is where the gentlemen and ladies are. Thats where the old amateur spirit has been hiding. It doesn't matter if you do 5wpm or 45wpm. Send slow, we'll come back to you at your speed. Heck i'm rusty from years of not using the mode and got interested again due to all the bitching about cw. Any band, any speed, cw is where its at. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all. John WR8D
 
RE: Time for Clarification  
by WR8D on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
W6TH was'nt driving any wedge, he only made a simple true statement. It seems it went straight to the heart of a few. I work all bands, modes. I got sick to death of all the crap on phone that we can hear just about everywhere. I became inactive on hf. I'd listen around, same ole crap. A few weeks ago i dug my old key out and started "bang'n brass". The split won't be found in the cw bands. Everyone respects everyone else there. If anyone wants a taste of it all you have to do is say "-.-. --.-" WR8D
 
RE: Time for Clarification  
by WR8D on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
W6TH was'nt driving any wedge, he only made a simple true statement. It seems it went straight to the heart of a few. I work all bands, modes. I got sick to death of all the crap on phone that we can hear just about everywhere. I became inactive on hf. I'd listen around, same ole crap. A few weeks ago i dug my old key out and started "bang'n brass". The split won't be found in the cw bands. Everyone respects everyone else there. If anyone wants a taste of it all you have to do is say "-.-. --.-" WR8D
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by WB2WIK on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: Time for Unification Reply
by KG6WLS on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Great job Jeff. I wouldn't be too hard on yourself about spelling or grammer (with two M's)...we've all seen worse in here.<

::Yep, and it's spelled grammar.

WB2WIK/6
 
RE: Time for Clarification  
by WB2WIK on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: Time for Clarification Reply
by WR8D on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
W6TH was'nt driving any wedge, he only made a simple true statement. It seems it went straight to the heart of a few. I work all bands, modes. I got sick to death of all the crap on phone that we can hear just about everywhere. I became inactive on hf. I'd listen around, same ole crap. A few weeks ago i dug my old key out and started "bang'n brass". The split won't be found in the cw bands. Everyone respects everyone else there. If anyone wants a taste of it all you have to do is say "-.-. --.-" WR8D<

::I agree with this. Vito didn't mean any harm, although sometimes the way you state something can be more important than the statement.

::I operate CW and phone, and there is no doubt that CW ops are the more courteous, more helpful, more tolerant types. It's as plain as the nose on even my face, and that's really plain.

WB2WIK/6
 
RE: Time for Clarification  
by KG6WLS on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
<<::Yep, and it's spelled grammar.>>

I did that in jest. Just wanted two sea who wuz paying attenchun. :)

 
RE: Time for Clarification  
by K0BG on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
One of the wonderful aspects of amateur radio is the number of facets it offers. As the old saying goes, what ever turns your crank. When you get into trouble is when you try to turn someone else's crank, or worse try to tell him how to without helping!

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
 
Time for Unification  
by N0AH on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Jeff,

Have you worked the KP5 yet on the VHF/UHF bands yet? Or has that goof ball 5 WPM code test and tough general written test held you back? Your boo hoo manuscript is typical of those who want to be real hams yet never feel that way. Go figure- Study and join the fraternity. It's time to cross over. Or maybe you'll just be one of those 9 in 10 tech's who drop out. It is not the class of operator that causes rifts, it's the lack of effort of those who want but can't do. Learning code is very important to weak signal VHF/UHF QSO's as well as satellites. Your missing a lot if you listen to these no-code gentlemen.
 
N0AH SAID THIS  
by N3JBH on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"N0AH said

Have you worked the KP5 yet on the VHF/UHF bands yet? Or has that goof ball 5 WPM code test and tough general written test held you back? Your boo hoo manuscript is typical of those who want to be real hams yet never feel that way. Go figure- Study and join the fraternity. It's time to cross over. Or maybe you'll just be one of those 9 in 10 tech's who drop out. It is not the class of operator that causes rifts, it's the lack of effort of those who want but can't do. Learning code is very important to weak signal VHF/UHF QSO's as well as satellites. Your missing a lot if you listen to these no-code gentlemen."

Did you miss the part where i stated i done over half my contacts on CW? code wasn't and still is not a problem for me. never was never has been. sorry if that was bad that i like using Morse Code. and asfar as working Desecheo island no agian i hav not there either. But have work Hatai wich is darnded close to that island. so thanks for offering me incentive bryon.

Please take care my freind and good dx to you.
 
RE: Time for Clarification  
by N6AJR on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
come on guys, Just like real life, both Eham and ham radio has nice guys and jerks.. if ya don't like it , turn the knob, or turn it off , or tell the offending person they are being a jerk.

But please don't sit here and complain about it under the guise of an Eham article.

I don't care if you love or hate cw, and I don't care what you think about it either, thats called an opinion..

now go put up a fan dipole and work some dx..
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KG6WLV on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Bravo to KG6WLS -- you must've been licensed within a day or two of me! -- on posting the Radio Amateur's Code. I think it sums up what we are supposed to be about as a radio service/hobby.
I admire many of the oldtimers in the hobby; they've seen more and done more as hams than I will ever do. Some have superb communications skills. But we also ALL deserve commmon courtesy, and a friendly reception on the bands, regardless of how we got there, providing we show the same respect and courtesy for them.
I once read that Ham Radio is known as the "King of Hobbies" because of the infinitely varied opportunities for learning, entertainment and experimentation and service. If we allow changes in rules and regs to divide us, it only makes our hobby weaker. The radio spectrum we've inherited is highly-prized by commercial interests. If our dissension causes us to lose it, we'll only have ourselves to blame. We OWE it to all the great SK's and the ops who follow us to preserve this great pursuit and make it better.
One other thing... it seems the flaming is most intense on the internet, and second worse on the air. But whenever I run into a ham face-to-face, it never happens; I just end up comparing notes with another person who loves the hobby as much as I do, regardless of our individual interests. Maybe we all need to get out more... LOL
 
Time for Unification  
by KILOWATT on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Never have heard one nasty word communicated on HF CW. No whining, complaining, flaming or vulgarity whatsoever at the lower end of the bands.

Oops! Sorry. That's one of the biggest bones of contention, isn't it? Phone vs. cw.

Well allow me then to say at least this; We know-coders may not be better than anyone else. I'll agree with that. But we put up with the least amount of crap. Our turf is much friendlier and more welcoming than the rest of the spectrum.

When you've had enough of the B.S.(As I did), rotate that vfo counter-clockwise and you'll discover the ham radio of 50 years ago. A real brotherhood.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N4QA on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
KILOWATT:

I agree with 99 44/100 % of what you wrote.

But, when I rotate the VFO knob of my Drake 2-C counterclockwise...on 40, 20 and 15 meters...the frequency goes *up*-------hardy har har!
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by WB2WIK on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: Time for Unification Reply
by N4QA on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
KILOWATT:
I agree with 99 44/100 % of what you wrote.
But, when I rotate the VFO knob of my Drake 2-C counterclockwise...on 40, 20 and 15 meters...the frequency goes *up*-------hardy har har!<

::That helps to explain why I can work VK's without having to stand on my head.

 
Time for Unification  
by NA4IT on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Let's look at the root of this problem:

Years ago, in the 60's, when I first started thinking about ham radio, one of the things I liked was that the amateur radio operator was respected. He (or she) was someone who had a great hobby, for the most part was of good moral character, and was willing to serve the general public.

In the 70's when I got my first license (WD4AXH) the ham was still respected, was of good moral character, and willing to serve the general public.

In the late 90's, when I got back into amateur radio as KF4ZHD, the ham was still respected, was still pretty much of good moral character, and still was willing to serve the general public.

I have been involved in the service side of amateur radio since that time. And what I have seen, especially since 9-11, is two schools of thought on the way the amateur radio operater is viewed. The first is that he is respected, of good moral character, and willing to serve, and the folks that think that way want him to do just that.

The second thought is that amateur radio is old fashioned, of no use to anyone except for a toy, not wanted in emergency communications because it can't get the job done, and the folks who think that would rather never be bothered by amateur radio operator ever again. They know more about communications that anyone else, can take care of themselves, and wouldn't admit they can't handle an emergency.

So is the problem us? Or, have we begun to act like we are viewed. Think about it.

I for one will continue, even though I am disabled and having to lay off some of the outside activities, to study new modes and methods, develop and enjoy my hobby, and try to serve my fellow man as best I can when called. That's all I can do. If that is not enough or that service is not wanted, then that's someone else's loss, not mine.

Scott NA4IT
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N4QA on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Unless, of course, I'm positioned *behind* the radio...in which case the frequency goes *up* only on 80 and 10 meters with a counterclockwise spin of the VFO ka-nob.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KC2IJI on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I have been a mere Tech for the last 5 years. The only place I have encountered rudeness and the vitrol of bitter old men is on eham and QRZ.

On the air, where it counts, I have had interesting QSO's, met folks I normally might not, and learned quite a bit both by listening and asking questions.

Not one person has put down my privileges, and other than encouragement to progress, it does not come up.

I don't see a need for unification...there appears to be no split, except in the wan light of one's computer...and that is clearly NOT amateur radio.

There's a rude person in every room...ham radio is the same, but to say there's a split, well, there's not. Eventually CW will be just another of the interesting facets of the hobby, and future scholars will marvel at the thousands of hours devoted to arguing about it.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KILOWATT on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
>KILOWATT:

I agree with 99 44/100 % of what you wrote.

But, when I rotate the VFO knob of my Drake 2-C counterclockwise...on 40, 20 and 15 meters...the frequency goes *up*-------hardy har har!<



Wow! Of all the rigs I've owned(many), I've never owned one in which the vfo worked in that manner.

We learn something new every day, huh?

I have nothing against no-coders or phone ops. Hell, I sometimes plug in my boom mic headset and chat for a while on SSB. I actually love it as another aspect of my hobby! But whenever I inevitably run into the radio rabble out there(esp. 80mtrs), I go back to the paddles and escape the morons.

My point was that no one needs to learn CW to impress me or validate their license. They should learn it in order to escape the "cb mentality" out there.

 
Time for Oxymorons  
by N0AH on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Dear Jeff,

Why don't you get your General license then if you work 1/2 your QSO's via CW? I've never known a wolf to be a vegitarian. As for the wonderful opinion expressed that all hams on the bands are fun loving get along friends, listen to the KP5 pile up or the 160 meter pile ups or 20 meters or 80 meters top side. Oh yeah, contestors. Jeff, you seem like a cordial op, but really, your call for help seems a bit odd. If your a person of science, then you are shorting yourself out by not exploring the HF bands. Especially 80 and 160 meters. If you really know code, just take the General exam and move up. Like I said, until then, no matter what you do as a tech, you'll be perceived as an under achiever. I mean you sound like you've got the heart, do something with it if your going to be an advocate. Why join the army if all your going to be is a private? Why build a race car and leave off the tires? Etc..............
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by RobertKoernerExAE7G on December 16, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Well folks. I don�t enjoy being preached at.

And, when I�m on the HF bands, I does not sound like eHam, or any other site except for the K1200LT site I participate with, nice bunch of folks.

Bob
 
Time for Unification  
by K3UD on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Jeff,

Your article is a bit confusing. You say that you use code on a good amount of your contacts yet you have not bothered to pass a 5 WPM code test? (if I am wrong I apologize in advance). Do you plan to take the General written test if and when code testing is dropped? Would you accept a 'Grandfather' upgrade to General if the FCC at some point rethinks the ARRL petition that would foster that change? Based on your post, it would seem that you would not take the General test or use the upgrade. It looks like you are standing on principle concerning this.

I got my feet wet on 2 meters in 1964 and I was also a Technician back in 1965 ( with the then required 5 WPM code test) and really came to love the VHF and UHF bands and the opportunity that they offered and am still active on those bands today. On the other hand, it was well worth the time and effort required to upgrade as it really enhanced my enjoyment of Amateur radio, but YMMV.

Overall all it sounds like you are perfectly happy and doing what you want to do with the amateur radio privileges that you have earned.

Merry Christmas (or the PC Happy Holidays)

73
George
K3UD
 
Time for Unification  
by KB9YUR on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Regardless of when you got into Amateur Radio or what type of license you now
have or even the modes of operation you use, without RESPECT for the other
person(s) online, all else is pointless and a waste of time.
George ...
 
Time for Unification  
by RADIOPATEL on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Hello Group Members

Who will think on International Unification? Multicountry licences ? I feel this is of more importance.

73's

Dinesh Bombay India
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K7BAL on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Great Posts Jeff and Don...

Shame about the negative posts though... What's wrong with you guys? Little love tanks must not be full.

1.. 2.. 3.. Awwww...

C'mon. Face it, most of the old timers are going to outlasted by the newbies soon. Wouldn't it be better to pitch in and try to instill as much of the Ham spirit as possible into these new guys? After all they are the ones who will carry the legacy forward. What are you going to do, leave a legacy of bittereness?

It's a real joke that a NCT would have to spring the Amateur Operators Creed on you guys... Make me laugh to think about it. Such hypocrisy...
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K0BG on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Dinesh you've got the right idea. Wouldn't it be nice if we all got along good enough that we could just go where ever our passport could take us and operate without a bunch of red tape? Imagine going to India and only having to add just the VU after our call? And talk about International brotherhood. Isn't that what this hobby is REALLY about?

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
 
To quote Rodney King....  
by W1DUD on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
******** CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?******* "73" and MERRY CHRISTMAS W1DUD "THE DUD"
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KB7LYM on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Here you see first hand a CW Operator who thinks ( and that might be hard ) that he and his other CW buddies are more unified than all other Hams combined. This is the spark that they need to get their close knit group heated up. No place for other groups to unify with the so called unifificated elite CW social group.
They call themself " THe Elite Warriors of Samuel Morse"
Everybody else are lepers and must know their place in the World of Hams.
They consider themselves higher then GOD !
After all GOD does not have a Ham Licence.





 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N3JBH on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Folks let me explain my self here. I love code. And love the hobby as well. I really just enjoy the experimentation end of this hobby. Building stuff and seeing if it will work as planned. And in my honest opinion vhf and uhf bands offer me a place to dabble in radio with out needing a vast amount of real estate. I am a crippled person physically so handling large antenna's can be a challenge. Of course I shall openly admit I have some very wonderful local hams that are always willing to help me there.

And I a have no problem with the upper classes of license either as I said I have nothing but great respect for those that done it. And as far as taking the free lunch (ie) automatic upgrade if offered. Well let me just say it this way I would guess if such a thing was implemented it would be an across the board action that you got it rather you asked for it or not.

Also asked will I upgrade? Yes I very well may do that. I can tell you not before summer time how ever and that's mainly because of getting me out the house in the winter is not the wisest move health wise. But to ad to this I like to think that if the FCC approves that so called elimination of code testing. Would that mean that any ham that took and passed a test after that date wasn't worth the ink it took to print his license?

If that's the case then we are right back to where we where when I started this whole topic. And then I say I wasted my time even writing this article to begin with. So I say folks lets not set here and question what it is folks do with the class of license they hold. But rather celebrate the fact we all our amateur operators at heart and no matter how diverse the hobby is or shall become. We all still belong to the same great fraternity folks. So enjoy the hobby/service support each other and be the best you can be. And thank you all for the very kind comments thus far. God bless each and every one of you this Holliday season. Jeff N3JBH
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KG6AMW on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Its a great hobby with wonderful people, even though a verbal punch gets thrown now and again. I don't have time to hold grudges and hopefully most here on eham are the same way.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N2WEC on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
W6TH, you completely missed the point. Please go back and read the page again.
Bill - N2WEC
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K5FZ on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

When I was first getting started in this hobby, 35 years ago, most of the old timers were more than willing to help me get started. There were a few Alpha Hotels back then as well, but for the most part, people were willing to give a youngster a hand up, not a backhand.

I personally don't care what class of license you hold. I figure if you want to upgrade, you will. If you ask me for help, I will try to help. But I will not belittle anyone or try to ridicule them into doing something they are not ready to do.

I do, however, find it sad that the requirements to get into the hobby are getting so easy, but hey, life goes on.

I usually listen before I talk (either with my mouth or my hand) and if I don't like the tone of the conversation, I won't enter into it. I do find that there are more nice people on CW...notice I didn't say gentlemen (in order to be more PC). However there are good folks on most modes...but, just like in other aspects of life, you have to pick and choose who you will be associated with.

Anyone who says that there are not LIDs among CW operators has NOT participated in CW pileups or CW contests. Alpha Hotels are not unique to any mode or class of operators. They are everywhere, just like the good guys. The bottom line is that some people just don't want to be gotten along with. You first have to determine what they are and then just leave them alone. They will generally gravitate to their own kind. Once they are all in a herd on some 75 meter frequency or internet group, you can ignore them as a group.

Have fun in WHATEVER part of the hobby you choose and ignore those who will be constantly negitive.

73,
Rich

 
Here's something we can all unify around...  
by N4QA on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
You guys are at your keyboards already.
How 'bout getting on the air in the OK DX RTTY contest. It runs 'til 2400Z today. So far, I've worked a couple new states and a few new countries using my modified Appalachian Trail Sprint-III...formerly a CW-only rig. Running 5 Watts out to an endfed wire, 80m long and 5m above ground.
If ya join in, I guarantee you'll have more fun than you are now, trying to trump each other in this forum.
80 meters was hot last night and 20 meters is jumping right now. There are some great CW contests going on too. So, get on with it!
 
Time for Unification  
by M3SKF on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
WHATCH OUT FOR THEM SNAKES IN THE GRASS WHO STALK THE BANDS CALL SIGN BASHING.
 
RE: Here's something we can all unify around...  
by WA4UZH on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Ahhhhh....The good ole days....When a Ham was a Ham was a Ham....One for all and all for one.....Sigh......

Lou/WA4UZH
 
Time for Unification  
by WA1RNE on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!


Jeff,


Good article and a noble attempt to pass on a worthwhile message about a subject that is not easy to articulate well.


Some of the better responses you received also hit home, like the one from W8AD but predictably, some were the usual "CW is better than Phone" or "CW makes the better ham" bull. (Personally, I think Smithfield or Corando makes the best ham.)


There are some unobvious reasons behind the "CW operators are better hams" argument.

CW is naturally less stressful and there is little chance for argument by virtue of its inherently slower communication rate - along with the lack of any way to detect a person�s attitude or tone.

When you strip away the human attributes, you end up with machine language - or "code".


That doesn't mean it's a poor choice of mode, but it does account for why there are fewer arguments or rude conversations on CW.


There are certainly other reasons for all the bickering. Many have to do with personality issues, as some people are just downright miserable and/or negative. They wake up in the morning with the goal of starting and finishing arguments. Others have superiority complexes and get off on putting others down in order to somehow feel better about themselves. Hey, welcome to society......


As others have said, I find most hams are very civil and polite on the air, but many become ranting tyrants when they get behind a keyboard.


Lets face it, the Internet is inherently less personal compared to having a face-to-face conversation - or to the closest thing, speaking with someone over the air.


I guess it�s that "closer thing", the art of conversation and speaking with a person that I enjoy, while having the opportunity to do it over long distances.

Thats good old Ham Radio��..


73, Chris
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K4RAF on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

The culture of division has been rooted, pruned & harvested by our elitist pals in Screwington. Until some more sheep leave in droves, the division will continue. Just look at the NCI thread. Elitist attitudes throughout.

Once CW goes away (it will), there will be no reason to continue the division of 'classes' because as we innovate less & perform less & less public service, there is only one common theme: communication

The ARRL has seen to it that technical material has been replaced on tests with mere rules, & rules, & rules.... How many rules do you need to know before you are in a different 'class'?
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by WA4DOU on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
There is nothing wrong with elitism and never has been. The masses tend towards shoddiness and mediocrity and that has always been the case. Its only more prevalent now in modern times.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KE4KVW on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I "WAS" a NO-CODE Tech for about 11 years & if I can pass the code then ANYONE who will study can do it as well. It ONLY took 8 evenings of 1 hour study time away from EVERYTHING else along with the DESIRE to LEARN & NOT asking for something I did NOT earn.Really try taking the time & effort in getting it done & just like hundreds of thousands before you it will come to you!I still enjoy VHF SSB on 6 & 2 meters with some GREAT DX contacts on 6 meters into Morroco,New Zealand,Russia & many others but it is NOT "HF" where most anytime is a GOOD time for DX on some band.If as much time & effort was put into studying as into begging for something for nothing then MOST would be upgraded by now & enjoying the HF bands along with the VHF bands they had before!Get yourself a CODE QUICK CW program & ENJOY it because it is FUN as well as SILLY but it does just what it says,"It WORKS"!Best wishes on an "EARNED"UPGRADE!Merry CHRISTmas & God bless,ClaytonKE4KVW
 
Time for Unification  
by N2XE on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Jeff Wrote "But I also wonder what they call me being I use Morse code on more then half my qso's."

How 'bout a liar?
 
Time for Unification  
by AB2NM on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Jeff:

Your thoughts reflect a level of wisdom and maturity absent from most within our culture. Perhaps not absent, but at least very well hidden.

To an extent, I think that what you propose goes against our base nature. For example: don't Seniors pick on Freshmen? Do all members of the armed forces berate members of the other branches? Don't older siblings (constantly) torment their younger flesh-and-blood? Sure they do. Always have; always will.

But, to your point - it does get old and tiresome. Too often such nonsense is not done in a spirit of fun; it can be mean-spirited and that does get old.

One funny story - a few years back at a hamfest a '20 WPM extra' tore into a recently upgraded extra. The conversation started innocently enough, but the old timer started shooting his mouth. The new extra just smiled and took it. Then the kid asked him how much cash he had on hand. Loudmouth had about $500. Kid says, "Good, I can cover that. How about a contest?" There was a code copying contest set up. The kid had already scored in the top 3 slots (over 40 WPM). The Kid and Loudmouth walked over to where the contest was set up (along with a bunch of us witnesses). The kid's call was posted on the board, and on his hat - so nothing was hidden from the fellow. It took Loudmouth a minute to add 2+2, then he learned some manners and slunk away.

It was fun to watch.

Merry Christmas, and PEACE to all.

 
N2XE Called me a liar  
by N3JBH on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Now John N2XE why would you come on here and call me a liar?
What part of this article have I lied about? Please if your so sure I have tell every one here what it is.
Also I wouldn�t mind having a written statement of that signed dated and mailed to me as well.

So please john explain to every one here what it is your accusing me of lieing about.
 
Time for Unification  
by KG6NJW on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Earlier in this thread (and in others) someone pointed out that private industry would dearly like to have the radio spectrum currently allotted to ham radio. I have also heard that that the government would like to take over some of the ham frequencies and give them to police and fire departments. Here is my question: aren't the frequencies that we are most in danger of losing the VHF/UHF frequencies? Those are the frequencies of most use to emergency responders, cell phone companies, wireless networks, etc. Meanwhile, with the dramatic decrease in the number of commercial shortwave broadcasters, the SW bands are mostly dead. The HF bands are of no real commercial use, due to their unreliability. It's entirely possible that 10 years from now the only frequencies still allotted to ham radio will be 6 meters and below.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N5GLR on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Unification? I think I’m already unified with the majority of hams who, correctly, think the latest proposal by ARRL (i.e. bandplan by bandwidth) will ruin AR. I also think I’m unified with the majority when expressing disapproval of lower standards for licensing.
I refuse to “unify” with the “minorities” within AR until they cease attempts to ruin it for the rest of us.

Arrogance, stupidity, profanity, intentional interference, drunk and disorderly behavior, (you name the negative) is on the increase on phone. That sort of trash is rarely, if ever, heard or read on any other mode. Maybe we should look at eliminating phone and mandating CW and digital only? Wouldn’t that solve a majority of the problems?
Perhaps that’s where the ARRL is headed with their new bandwidth proposal.

Garry
N5GLR
 
RE: N2XE Called me a liar  
by N2XE on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"Now John N2XE why would you come on here and call me a liar?
What part of this article have I lied about? Please if your so sure I have tell every one here what it is.
Also I wouldn�t [sic] mind having a written statement of that signed dated and mailed to me as well.
So please john explain to every one here what it is your accusing me of lieing about."

OK, my pleasure although it's not like it wasn't intuitively obvious to the most casual of observers: You asked what we would call a no code technician who uses CW for half their QSOs so I answered... A liar.

I've had this discussion with a dozen of folks like like you and when we finally strip it down to the facts, they don't use CW at all. If they do, it's with a computer and CWGet. Here's the facts: if you know CW at 5 wpm or over, you would have upgraded. Period. If you didn't, your the first so I'm just going to go out on a limb and say that you don't know Morse.

Now your asking me to welcome you into the elite club of those of us who spent a minimal effort to learn CW and hold you in the same asteem. I don't think so and I'm not buying your Rodney King "why can't we all just get along" thing either. Your post couldn't be more transparent.
 
Time for Unification  
by W5DCT on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Not a bad article at all. Pretty decently written, grammer wasn't that bad. My only question is...why? Why dredge up another iuuse to start the cw and non-cw groups clawing at each other's throats yet again. I'm sure that you had the greatest of intentions as have others in the past, however you cant just type out an article without considering the backlash that it may cause within the community. As you can clearly see ,someone had to start with a comment about someone driving a wedge between the cw and phone crowds. Some people just live to stir the pot. Like I said you seemed to have the best of intentions.......or did you? Sometimes you have to read between the lines ,I did and I'm not sure that what you wrote wasnt meant to provoke yet another session of arguements. Take it any way that you like people. Kd5jzn
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by WB2WIK on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
>Time for Unification Reply
by WA1RNE on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
(Personally, I think Smithfield or Corando makes the best ham.)<

::What? Have you tried Honeybaked? Yummmmmy...

-WB2WIK/6
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K3EY on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Unification? I think I�m already unified with the majority of hams who, correctly, think the latest proposal by ARRL (i.e. bandplan by bandwidth) will ruin AR. I also think I�m unified with the majority when expressing disapproval of lower standards for licensing. I refuse to �unify� with the �minorities� within AR until they cease attempts to ruin it for the rest of us.

---------------------------------------------------


Ditto



Why does anyone believe that just because you have an amateur license that these people who all live in the same old screwed up planet as we all do, will behave or act any differently? Does an amateur license change your morals, your belief system, your mannerisms, you kindness or meanness? Of course it doesn't, so then why act so surprised or indignant about what you experience on SSB, CW or any other mode.

I personally agree that amateur radio has been (dumbed down) big time over the last few decades to include lower life forms who pollute our bands with their (normal) activity. If they really loved amateur radio so much then studying to upgrade would be a big exciting challenge not something to cry to the government about to (dumb it down) so you too can join the party without effort or any real passion.

This is a never ending subject because you are dealing with human nature at its best and worst, just like the rest of the world does without a license.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K1CJS on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
By W6TH:
"Jeff, you must be talking of the SSB and the phone operators. Yes, I agree there is no unification amongst the phone operators.

This leaves us CW operators out of your theory as we CW operators are well unified, a unified utility system is what we use."

How about unification between the CW operators and the phone operators? If you include that with your statement, I'm 100 percent with you. How about it?
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by RobertKoernerExAE7G on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
As long as you are a good op, few care/worry about what your ticket says.

If you are a good op, few will ever think about what your ticket says.

Personally, I do not care what ticket you have.
I don�t care what modes you like.
I don�t care what bands you like to play on.

If I hear you on the air, and I do not care for what you are saying or how you are acting, I simply don�t talk with you.

Frankly, I don�t worry if other ops approve of my ticket, my gear, or how I operate my station.

Bob, an original Advanced Light; I didn�t take my Advanced at an FCC field office.
 
Time for Unification  
by K1CJS on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I went about halfway through the posts here and just got fed up with the negativism. Now I have to say this--If there were just half as many of us wanting and willing to do something about the divide on the positive side instead of complaining and trying to stir up problems, both this site and the bands would be better places.
 
Time for Unification  
by W2NSF on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Good thoughts, Jeff. In our local club, your dream is our reality. Our president is a Technician. Our emergency coordinator is a Technician. I am a "5wpm extra" who learned the code and the Extra class cirriculum simply to gain access to ALL the HF bands. (I currently don't operate CW.) We have members from 8 to 80 and everyone seems to get along and more importantly, have fun together. It's the people, folks, the people. That's always been the most important asset to this great hobby. Thanks again Jeff, for the article (spelling and grammer be damned)!
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by G8KHS on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Bob AE7G has put his finger on it,
Be a good operator and polite whatever mode you use, and show others by example how to operate.
Be the best you can!
If you ignore those with puffed up opinions, and inflated egos, you'll be better off, and have a lot more happier operating.

Best wishes of the season to all on eham.

John.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KC8VWM on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

There is a growing perception that just because you are a Tech class operator holding a Tech class license that this somehow translates to means that you have an empty head and don't know CW or anything else about the HF aspect of Amateur Radio.

...Not True!

Some of us have just taken a different path.

For example, while my license is relatively new in the FCC database - I have been enjoying my "Radio Hobby" for over 30 years now.

I have just done it all differently. I enjoy DX'ing on HF bands but I do it in a different way than most radio hams.

You see, one doesn't need an actual HF transmitter or an HF license to engage in such activities.

I learned CW as an SWL when I was 14 years old. I learned it NOT because I was or was not an amateur radio operator, but rather because I was interested in deciphering what I was listening to night after night on my boatanchors.

I designed and built 100's of antennas, put up dozens of towers, completely rebuilt & restored 30+ boatanchors just to name a few things this "No Code Tech" has done in the past 30 years. One could say I know which end of a soldering to hold onto.

Ham radio for me is really just a secondary extension to what I have already been enjoying for many years.

To be honest I found that after getting my FCC license I rarely use my VHF/UHF privileges and just "monitor" most of the time in the shack.

I would much rather fire up my fine boatanchor collection and snag some rare elusive and exotic broadcaster on HF using a radio like my R/390A.

In other words, I enjoy my "Radio Hobby - My Way" and I really don't need or require a General or Extra Class ticket to do it.

So, many of you are probably wondering, could I walk into a VE session tommorow and get an advanced qualification? Absolutely! you have to admit, it's really not that hard to do these days.

But, as an SWL over the past 30 years I have observed the many personalities and politics on the HF bands and quite frankly, I really don't understand how transmitting on HF exchanging short busts of signal reports or talking about your health problems can be especially entertaining. The author pointed out there is constant bickering, frequency wars, division among the classes etc..etc..etc..

Uh, no... I really don't think I'm interested thanks.

I realize there are good and bad in every hobby but transmitting on HF is just not "my thing" and I continue to enjoy "Radio - my way" and I would suggest you do the same.

Give me a boatanchor and a soldering iron and i'm happy.


Happy Holidays.


dah-dah-di-di-dit di-di-di-dah-dah

dah-di-dit dit dah-di-dah-dit di-di-di-dit di-dah di-dah-dit di-dah-di-dit dit di-di-dit

dah-di-dah dah-di-dah-dit dah-dah-dah-di-dit di-di-di-dah di-dah-dah dah-dah

(A No Code Tech)
 
RE: N2XE Called me a liar  
by N3JBH on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
ok i see your point john very well assumption is the name of the game here. well john a fool would beleave his own assumption. thomas hogan km3d taught me morse code at the age of 14 in an after school radio club. he is a excellent cw operator indeed and holds many awards for his abilty's but you are correct i never moved on to my novice exam. no instead i worked on the family farm and played out doors like many children of my age did then. by the age of 18 i jioned the United States army where i want on through various schools first was infantry. then i wanted to move up in the feild so want to radio school. opps sorry john i learnded or should i say they thought they taught me morse code agian. 25 words a minute wasnt much for me to break a swaet at matter fact slowing down to 12 words a minute wqas harder as i was use to hearing words rather then letters by this point.

but it wasnt till 1991 when mike wb3fad convinced me to please go take the tech test. i finaaly gave in and took it. missed one question. yes i was not proud of that but hey ok got my ticket. mike gave me a old clegg fm-27b radio. i talk to mike on there. till i met bill no3y he shown me vhf uhf week signal work i was hooked i been there ever sense. i love it there john. so please for give me if i say i will be damned if youll call me a liar!

i have met and seen your type before john. your not elite beleave you may think you are but your going to have your slice of humble pie feed to you some day. and when it is please remeember what i have said to you here. and that is only a fool beleives in assumption my freind.

also i am not the least bit sure what cw get even is but i will risk every thing i said so far about assumption and say it must be a computer program to do morse code. now that being said why do you the self professed elite extra class op know about it?

is it safe to say you must use it? see john it is way too easy to point the finger here is it not. wouldnt it be great if we did indeed all get along instead doing what you said and label thy self as elite? i most certainly am noy elite never was never will be.

i dont even know what the defintion of self apointed eliteness is but being you do hold this title please for the good of man kind explain to me and the rest of the readers here what makes you elite john. we all want to know. thanks jeff
 
RE: N2XE Called me a liar  
by N3JBH on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
i guess i wanted to ask why you picker Rodney King as your person of intrest when it came to the why cant we all get along? Where did Rodney King falll in to this at?

Sounds like you our try to start another interesting point. our you a racist? from what i read about you i would beleave you could be. Please john keep a open mind about what you see and think about others. it is a healthy and wise idea to be open minded.

please dont let your self proclaimed greatness over shadow your self sustainded rightous diginty here.
there are many many great folks in the world that have preached the words of kindness and the fundamentals of getting along with each other.

why dont you follow the wisdom of the many here that agree. it is time to stop proclaiming your in the elite as you call it and instead under stand that because some one dont follow in your foot steps dont mean there no less as good as you.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by W5AU on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"Unification? I think I�m already unified with the majority of hams who, correctly, think the latest proposal by ARRL (i.e. bandplan by bandwidth) will ruin AR. I also think I�m unified with the majority when expressing disapproval of lower standards for licensing.
I refuse to �unify� with the �minorities� within AR until they cease attempts to ruin it for the rest of us."

Double Ditto !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K5UJ on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Recently i have been operating cw with my Omni VI, BY2 and Radio Adventures Codeboy. Unlike 30 years ago, i find that I have to put myself in the right frame of mind to enjoy it as an adult in this world where everything seems to happen faster than before and everyone acts as if they have ADD. I have to slow down, relax, turn off every distraction and clear my head of worries, my schedule and things to do. Sunday mornings are a good time for me. I can't multitask like an idiot when I'm operating cw, if i want to enjoy it.

Whatever license class elitism there is probably goes back to the beginning of incentive licensing. I wasn't around before i.l. but i know debate about it raged for a long time, and there are a few OTs still around who will go off about it if asked. I never thought i.l. was a bad idea, but it was managed better at one time than now if you ask me. there was some "institutionalized" elitism such as the special Novice station on field day where novices were sent off by themselves to flounder around, but the novice license was also good for a year or two after which you were pretty much forced to upgrade, and most important, it got you on HF. Whatever is going on now, it is probably the product of the biggest mistake in the u.s. in the past 50 years of ham radio--the establishment of a permanent (i.e. renewable) introductory license class with no HF privs. That more than the code, has been the biggest Katrina sized fiasco in terms of getting people interested and keeping them in the ARS. We desperately need a novice class license with some HF authorization. I hate to generalize but i believe that issues gravely threatening ham radio such as BPL and antenna restrictive covenants and HOAs are of little interest to hams who operate with HTs and have never experienced HF. If there had been a license class all along that showed new hams the magic and wonders of HF there would be more hams active on HF and more hams joining the fight against these threats to the hobby.
 
RE: N2XE Called me a liar  
by N2XE on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Jeff wrote:
"i[sic] have met and seen your type before john[sic]. your[sic] not elite beleave[sic] you may think you are but your[sic] going to have your slice of humble pie feed to you some day[sic]. and[sic]when it is please remeember[sic] what i[sic] have said to you here. and[sic] that is only a fool beleives[sic] in assumption my freind[sic].

also am[sic sic] not the least bit sure what cw[sic] get even is[sic] but i[sic] will risk every thing i [sic] said so far about assumption and say it must be a computer program to do morse[sic]code. now [sic] that being said why do you the self professed elite extra class op know about it?

is [sic]it safe to say you must use it? see john [sic sic] it is way too easy to point the finger here is it not. wouldnt [sic sic]it be great if we did indeed all get along instead doing what you said and label thy self as elite? i [sic] most certainly am noy[sic] elite never was never will be [sic]."
_______________________________________________________

Whew... yes, you'll never be elite, that's pretty clear. Let me just say that it's the folks that can't spend 20 minutes a night for ten days in a row and pass a 5 WPM test that think those who did are elite. It's your definition, not mine.

I couldn't care less what license you have or desire. I do care when you post articles about how you could have passed a CW test but didn't--hey, just respect me none-the-less. Well I don't. I do respect the thousands of codeless Techs out there doing great work and having tons of fun. They don't preach to me about how they could have passed a CW test. If they can and want to, they do. You didn't so I'm not impressed about who taught you what.

Hams that know CW have something you don't--they know CW. You can't change that, the FCC can't change that. Are they better? All things being equal, yes, they know CW and you don't.

Yes, I know CW Get and I've used it. I know just about everything there is to know about CW because it's a fascinating subject. I've even used a keyboard to send CW (gasp!).

I like the "CW too slow to copy" bit you threw in there as if that's going to fool anybody. Newsflash... If you can copy 50 WPM, it's no problem copying 5 WPM. Just write the characters down on paper then read what was sent. Of course, I would know that because I can do both.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by W5AU on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Unification? I think I'm already unified with the majority of hams who, correctly, think the latest proposal by ARRL (i.e. bandplan by bandwidth) will ruin AR. I also think I'm unified with the majority when expressing disapproval of lower standards for licensing. I refuse to "unify" with the "minorities" within AR until they cease attempts to ruin it for the rest of us.

Double Ditto !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N3JBH on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Bravo Bravo john i Bow to you. :)
i need say no more about this topic.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KC8VWM on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
If there had been a license class all along that showed new hams the magic and wonders of HF there would be more hams active on HF and more hams joining the fight against these threats to the hobby.

------

As my previous post indicates, the lack of a new license class or having any HF license for that matter doesn't restrict a person from listening or experiencing HF.

Go figure...

 
RE: N2XE Called me a liar  
by WB2WIK on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: N2XE Called me a liar Reply
by N3JBH on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
i guess i wanted to ask why you picker Rodney King as your person of intrest when it came to the why cant we all get along? Where did Rodney King falll in to this at?<

::Rodney is more famous than he deserves. As a "local" who had a chance to witness the offroad incident, the videotape, the preliminary hearing, the trial, and then the riots up much closer than I ever wanted to be (since it all occurred in my backyard), the real fact is Mr. King is a complete and total loser who has done nothing but get in trouble since his release. He's been subsequently arrested numerous times and probably should spend the rest of his life behind bars.

So, I don't quote him. Probably nobody should.

-WB2WIK/6
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by AF0H on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Unification? Well, there are those that post on the internet (here) and those that operate on the air. I try to do both, but 90% of my Ham Radio time is spent on the air.

I recently restored a set of TCS-13's and am having a blast with them - yes, CW/AM! I prefer a key to a mic any day - seperates the Hams from the CB'ers.

I can't recall how many locals on the 2-meter repeater that have all this gear = New rigs, amplifiers, beams, etc. and have no idea on how to use them. They even go as far as asking someone else to come and hook everything up for them. Oh, and build me a dipole while you're at it.

This is Piss Poor!

Of course, in this area, some of the VE Teams would give out an 'Extra Class' for money under-the-table and didn't even have the means of giving a CW test.

Sad, but true!

Though i'm somewhat new in the hobby (3-years), I have restored several rigs, built a couple of transmitters, built power supplies, fixed rigs for others, etc. Didn't have all of this knowledge going into the hobby, but I worked at it and actually had to learn something! Nobody gave it to me!

But, instead of learing something new, most of the new hams (and even a few old ones too) want everything handed to them.

Giving the problems we as hams are facing and already having amoungst ourselves, I can see NO unification.

73 de
af0h - Rob
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by ERNESTTHOMPSONEXK4EAT on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Its hard for me to believe that anyone decides to get into ham radio telling themselves – "I can’t wait to get my license so I can hit the local repeater and talk to my neighbors across the street."

I think everyone, in the back of their mind, gets into ham radio in order to talk around the world – to be part of the excitement of talking to fellow hams 8000 miles away -- not 8 miles across town.

But maybe I am just old and wrong. But if I am wrong then we definitely need to continue to have a separate class of ham licenses.

I am not saying that CW makes you a better ham – what I am saying is that your pathetic whining about Unification and “Can’t we all get along” crap makes you worse.

And while I am on the subject -- the only people saying what a great life it is up there above 50 Ghz are NCTs. And guess what guys – you can have it – I rather you be up there above us then down here with us old stupid people that actually studied and pass a test.

Unification – sure why not – in this world of free food stamps and welfare for those that feel the world owes them something – and free education because your parents are on welfare while I have to work 12 hours a day to put my daughter through college – UNIFICATION – sure -- I am all for it – in fact – I don’t want to make anyone feel bad so lets just change the constitution and add gay marriage, free citizenship for anyone that sneaks into this country, a right to not work if you don’t feel like it, and Advance class license as constitutional rights….

Aaaggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

These ridiculous topics is the reason I rarely come to this site!!!!
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by ERNESTTHOMPSONEXK4EAT on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
50 Ghz should have read 50 Mhz ... my bad .. guess its time to put the computer away and hit the HF bands and leave the Internet to those that can't....
 
Again your correct steve  
by N3JBH on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
steve if i ever get the chance to meet you in person remind me to tell you some story's related to rodney king. he had moved to new castle Pa. and well havingfamily in law enforcement. beleave me i have some good ones told to me. your right he is not my role model. but i didnt see where he belonged in this topic either. hmmmm well maybe i do see but some day we shall talk about. it just a reall shame many other's havn't been like you steve radio been a great place then hey take care happy holidays my freind
 
Time for Unification  
by W1EAP on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I agree 100%. I finally passed code test at 72, but it was for my satisfaction, not any new-bee or old timer interest.
The key to this is the FCC's reason for amateur radio "communication". It is that simple, code, TV, phone, or rtty, it doesn't matter. We are all members of the amateur family, different interest, but all equal in interest of the hobby/vocation. So join in making it better by working together and not knocking the other guys interest or dedication.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N2XE on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"Bravo Bravo john i Bow to you. :)"

Don't bow to me, just don't preach unification when you're the reason there's division.
 
Time for Unification  
by KD4LLA on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I wanted to be a ham radio operator to talk to people in different parts of the country.

Once I had a conversation with a radio operator on a C-130 Air Force plane and a ham in Las Vegas at the same time (10 meters). (yes, the AF ham had a callsign, for you radio police)

I also contacted a S.C. operator (2 meters) through a Florida repeater (tropo ducting).

A few years later I experienced "knife edge refraction" (440 mhz) over the Alaskan Range.

Now I enjoy contacts on 17 meters, as 15, 20, 40, and 80 meters seem to be taken.

All this being said, yes, why cannot we all get along? I do not remember cutting in to anyones (meaningless to me) 80 meter net, 40 meter "I got a sked", or 15 meter ragchew.

Nine or so HF bands, couple of VHF bands, UHF and beyond... Do we, as ham operators really need to be so petty?"

I have a freind, who is a dentist, private pilot, and a extra class ham. I once asked him why he was always asking questions about computers. He said "I cannot figure them out, I do not want to learn about computers, and as a matter-of-fact computers do not really interest me."

There are facets of ham radio that do not interest me, but I am perfectly content listening to your radio passion.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by W6TH on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
.
k1cjs chris,

Still a no code tech huh? Will wonders never cease?

CW forever,
W6TH
.:
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KI8DJ on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
To all of you mad fanatics... Get a life this is supposed to be fun. Gary ki8dj extra medium, 13 wpm. Can't wait for the code to fall so some young fun people get into the hobby. The worst operators are all the egotistical old farts on 75 meter phone all of whom have passed 13 and 20 wpm code tests.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N2XE on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"Can't wait for the code to fall so some young fun people get into the hobby."

What! When ever I show Amateur Radio to kids under 18, the ONLY thing that grabs their interest is CW. It's cool, clandestine and has some mystique. Plus it has the advantage that a lot of fat older guys can't seem to learn it but kids can except for the ones that have learned that if they whine long enough, they'll get what they want.

CW isn't keeping any kids out of the hobby, to the contrary, it's the major appeal. Talking to someone distant is no big deal--in fact, it's routine for kids given the Internet and cell phones.

I ask you, if you were a kid, would you want to make your own podcast or talk to some old fat guy in Peoria?

CW isn't killing Amateur Radio but the iPod very well might.
 
Time for Unification  
by K7VO on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Jeff, congratulations on hitting the nail squarely on the head. You've correctly identified ham radio's biggest problem today and the single issue that threatens to be the downfall of the amateur radio service.

I love reading the comments of the code forever crowd. Cast a few stones, call a few people names, and cling to your hazing ritual which requires newcomers to the hobby to learn an outstanding mode of communications from the 19th century... and then wonder why there weren't enough volunteers for 21st century catastrophes or why the average age at your local ham club has eclipsed 70.

Bash the newcomers, drive them from the hobby, attack the only national organization that lobbies to protect our spectrum (that's the ARRL), throw in a few political attacks... yep, that's sure going to "preserve" our hobby.

Elitism, classism, and the general divisiveness of the hobby are far more dangerous to our future than the abolition of the Morse examination, which the FCC has made very clear is in our future.

Unification, indeed. Unfortunately, Jeff, you are preaching to people who are colsed minded and will do all they can to drive you and anyone else they deem isn't a "real ham" out even if it means the demise of the hobby. It's truly pathetic.

73,
Caity
K7VO
 
Time for Unification  
by KC7BFK on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
First off, I want to say great article Jeff! You have hit the nail right on the head.

I also an a NO CODE Tech! I have been since 1994. I also use CW on 6meters on occasion. I guess I am still worthless in the eyes on some of the high and mighty CW ops. (Not all of you) My main reason I haven’t taken the test is the lack of time. I also have a life and a family that comes first before becoming a “great” ham that has passed his almighty 5 wpm test. Some of you probably still wouldn’t be happy if all the no coders passed the 5 wpm. You would want it 10 wpm, then 15 wpm, then 20 wpm, etc.

CW is only ONE mode of amateur radio. You think we should learn it to be a good ham? Maybe we should pull everyone’s license and make everyone pass a test on every mode that is possible. Maybe we will all be good hams then! Not just one mode. How does that sound? Test for CW, AM, FM, SSB, APRS, ATV, SSTV, CLOVER, ECHOLINK, EME, SETI, FAX, PM, GPS, GTOR, PACKET, PORTABLE, ILINK, IRLP, MICROWAVE, MMTTY, MFSK16, MT63, NAVTEX, PACKET, PACKTOR, PSK31, QRP, RTTY, SATALLITES, THROB, WEFAX, WIRES II, ETC. I am sure I missed a few. Oh so you think that is a stupid idea? Why, because you are NOT interested in any of those modes and don‘t think it would make you a better ham to know how to operate in those modes. Well maybe some of the hams are not interested in CW and knowing CW won‘t make them a better operator or ham. Wow what a concept!

So, to all the hams that like to bash on the no coders or the supporter of dropping of the code requirement stop and ask yourself…
1. Am I really a good ham?
2. Am I an expert in all the modes or just CW?
3. Is it time for me to crawl down from my almighty high horse because I don‘t know everything there is to know about ALL the modes and that makes me worthless too?

Remember… This is for the bashers, NOT all CW ops.

Anyway… Just a point!

73!
Thomas
KC7BFK
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KC8VWM on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Elitism, classism, and the general divisiveness of the hobby are far more dangerous to our future than the abolition of the Morse examination.

--------

Why do I agree with that statement?


73 Charles - KC8VWM
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N3DRK on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"Elitism, classism, and the general divisiveness of the hobby are far more dangerous to our future than the abolition of the Morse examination."

--------

"Why do I agree with that statement?


73 Charles - KC8VWM "

_____________________________________________________

It is because you are a simpleton Charles.

You cannot think for yourself. And if someone disagrees with you, you tell him to go to 27.854.
Yes Charles,,,it is very obvious you are an Ivy League member wannabe but your are angry because your daddy never spent any time with you. And you are really angry because your daddy did not care so much to give you the ass whipping you so wanted and deserved. Well Charles, such is life. Grow up and
quit being a weenie. Go put chillie on it.

Charles you are a Liberal who believes in Social Promotion though you do not know what Social Promotion is so I will explain it to you.....

Social Promotion is Liberal thinking at it's Finest. This great "IDEA" has been going on for the past 5 years. For instance,,,, If a Tenth grader FLUNKS the 10th Grade, they pass him/her because it will do too much damage to his/her Psyche if they "hold him/her back" and really mess up his/her mind. That person will not be able to function for the rest of his/her life due to this tramatic event. So the thinking goes pass him/her to the 11th grade. And if the same thing happens again in the 12th grade,,pass him/her.

Is that a person I would like to have working for my company?

This is a fact and it has been going on in the State of North Carolina for the past 5 years. So it is my hope that outside major companies will come and recruit these cream of the crop minorities and take them to Massachusetts. This is such an honorable state that they allow swimming at night in the canals without lifeguards. It cannot get any better than that! And you do not have to pay!!! ahhh Charles????

Charles ,,,getting back to Amateur Radio. In the ARRL Publication "ON4UN's LOW-BAND DXing" 3rd revision, page 2-10 paragraph 9-1,,,,,

"There's no doubt about it. CW is far superior to Phone when it comes to marginal conditions. It also separates the Men from the others."

This was written by John Devoldere Charles. I doubt you have heard of him and you probably think he workes part time in a store selling spinach spaghetti. But what do you think of a person making such a statement?


73s
john
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KA2JIZ on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
The divisiveness in amateur radio reflects the general divisiveness in the country. My God, have you listened to the rable rousers on AM talk radio over the past twenty years?

I am a strictly cw operator and wouldn't be otherwise, but I don't think that puts me in any exhaulted position. I do think that a lot of cw ops are worried that at some point, if the cw requirements are dropped and band allocations are revised, they (we) may find the ability to practice our favorite mode seriously diminished. It is a fear, conscious or subconscious; expressed or not expressed.
 
We are all God's children....  
by W1DUD on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
RE: N2XE Called me a liar Reply
by N3JBH on December 17, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
i guess i wanted to ask why you picker Rodney King as your person of intrest when it came to the why cant we all get along? Where did Rodney King falll in to this at?

Sounds like you our try to start another interesting point. our you a racist? from what i read about you i would beleave you could be. Please john keep a open mind about what you see and think about others. it is a healthy and wise idea to be open minded
.....Wow,how do you convince a person who has such a great command of the english language that I am not a racist. I use Rodney's quote all the time because it was a plea from him to stop rioting after his beating. Go crawl back under the rock you came from. "73" THE DUD
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K1CJS on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
W6TH:

To each his own, Vito, to each his own. Oh, BTW--you haven't answered the question: How about the unification between the coders and the phoners? Seems like a big resounding NO from here. I feel sorry for you.......

K1CJS
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by WR8D on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Ref AF0H: You stated it exactly like it is om. Thats one of the reasons i'm no longer a ve. Its happening everywhere but most won't admit it, or are blind to it. The cw guys and gals don't think they're smarter than others or any better either. We enjoy using cw obviously or we would'nt use it. What we have going on though is people that want everything give to them on a slate without any work being put into the effort. Many of these folks feel anger toward those in the hobby that can do other things like 20wpm or faster code. Its honestly like most are in adult bodies with teenager mind sets. My dads bigger than yours, my car , my motorcycle is faster. My chevy is better than your ford. This is the way we've all been brought up so its only natural this is the way we look at each other. Myself i've done not a thing but try to help local new comers and elmer them. I've been cussed, and called a snob and elite 20 wpm extra for doing it. One example was trying to get through this guys head that his moonraker four would'nt work on 80 meters. He was one of those that had been a cber for 20 years. He went from cber to extra in under six months. They're dumber than rocks honestly, most come into the hobby thinking they know more than any ham operator and refuse to be elmered. This last statement by me is the reason there will always be a split in the ranks. It'll never get any better either. When those of us that are a little older start dieing off they'll only direct their hatred at each other. Some of you think i guess that we live in some kind of fairy tale land. Amateur radio is not dieing all you need is a nice antenna to listen with and see for yourselves. Our society is a mess simple as that. Its our society, they way we treat each other out in public thats carrier over into amateur radio that makes the split in the ranks. Its the same with belonging to any church. Even there in Gods house there are those that think, if you don't belong to my church then you're going to hell. If you don't wear your hair as a woman a certain way, if you are female and wear slacks, when you're baptized its got to be in flowing water or you're going to hell. Those like catholics that only get sprinkled are dead wrong its got to be in a river to wash the sins away. See how ridiculous and extreme our society has gotten. I'm Catholic by the way! Our society is a mess simple as that so how else would anyone think amateur radio would turn out. You're smarter than me, you can work a station at 45wpm on cw in your head and talk to me in the shack at the same time so i hate you. You're somekind of an elite snob for being able to do that so i dislike you because i can't do that. And on and on it goes. It will only get worse with time, just hang around and watch and listen. Now i'm off to 40meters to do some of that snob cw stuff that pisses so many off. If you don't like a mode use another one. If you don't like a certain band there again go to another one. Stop your bitching and crying at others that might do a little more in and with the hobby. There again though i'll be called a 20wpm elite snob for just saying it like it needs to be said. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all. 73 John WR8D
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N3JBH on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
N2XE
"Bravo Bravo john i Bow to you. :)"

"Don't bow to me, just don't preach unification when you're the reason there's division."

John if you thought I was serious about bowing to you. Then your more of a fool then I thought.
And based on what I have read on here. I think the vast majority would over whelmingly agree on
What we believe you are. I am sorry to sound that way. But then it sounds like I am not in the minority here with that opinion.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K3EY on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
W6TH:

To each his own, Vito, to each his own. Oh, BTW--you haven't answered the question: How about the unification between the coders and the phoners? Seems like a big resounding NO from here. I feel sorry for you.......

K1CJS


----------------------------------------------------
Actually I feel sorry for you CHRIS. Vito here is 83 years young and has lived long enough to earn anyones respects to which you shake your fist in his face.

I feel sorry for you, stuck as a tech for an eternity holding an HT trying to convince the world CW sucks and that anyone thinking otherwise is a moron.

You're obviously proud of what you have written in your bio on QRZ: "I am the Fall River area Emergency Co-coordinator for ARES and Skywarn as well as the Community Resource Officer of the Fall River EMA". Good for you, glad this does it for you---but guys like Vito and myself and thousands of others worldwide wouldn't bother getting our license if that's all it offered.

Like I said in an earlier post and it still stands. The world we live in also encompasses amateur radio operators with all their short comings as well as their good traits This thread/topic was one big waste of time as it's never ending because it really not about CW versus SSB or anything of that nature, it's about human nature, you know what you learned in Sunday (Fallen Man's Nature) so why expect anything different than what you're reading here, the blasting others that don't fit "your" perception of right and wrong.

Vito...I Love You Old Timer...wish the world had more of you left but your kind are dying off and the modern feel good PC morons are taking over the planet surely making it a worse place to be.


Curt/k3ey
 
A Few Bad Apples  
by W5AU on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
It totally amazes me how just a few loud mouth people that are too lazy to get off their butts and learn the basics of this wonderful hobby have almost destroyed it. There will never be "unification" as you put it. The Welfare Hams will never be accepted regardless of how much they beg. However, just a little effort would bring these same people aboard with full acceptance. The difference a few hours study would make is obviously not realized by these people.
 
Time for Unification  
by WB4M on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Not sure what my "rank" is but I hold an extra class license since 1982. But to some, that makes me an elitist. If that makes me an elitist, what does that make YOU? I don't know any hams in my area who dislike others based on their license class.
You preach unity when at the same time the ARRL preached diversity -- something in this hobby for everyone. If someone is content to remain a Tech and work only vhf, that is just fine with me, but don't condemn me because I have a higher class license.
I have been involved in many hobbies in which people preferred different approaches to it. For instance, I used to do a lot of photography years ago, and some though if you did not use Nikon cameras then you were inferior in some way. Same when I rode motorcycles, some loved Hondas and some loved Harleys, and both put down the other for whichever bike they rode. I guess it is just one of our flaws in which some of us have a need to feel superior to someone else.
I am not a technical person, the theory is over my head and just not my thing. But I did work hard and study and learned enough to pass all of the tests along the way to Extra, and I got my speed up to 20 WPM. Yes, I am proud of that accomplishment, and I don't feel too smpathetic to someone who sits back and wants it handed to them. (This is not directed at the author of the thread). And perhaps that is the root of your perceived Elitism or division. The split falls between those who worked for what they have and those who won't.
 
Time for Unification  
by K7VO on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Elitism is an attitude. It has nothing to do with license class. It has nothing to do with when you were licensed. You could have held your license and call for 75 years and still be welcoming and open to newcomers, willing to elmer rather than attack, willing to teach rather than scold, and you would, in my view, be an asset to amateur radio.

Somehow anyone who thinks Morse examinations is obsolete has to be a no code tech based on this thread. Not so. I had to pass a 13 WPM Morse exam to get my first HF voice privileges back in the mid '80s. I passed the examination mandated by the FCC at the time, just as I did in 1991 when I upgraded to Advanced, and again when I upgraded to Extra. The no-code tech passed the examination mandated by the FCC as well, as did the 5 WPM Extra. None of us had a choice about the exams we took and the exams we did take say nothing at all about what kind of people we are.

Based on this thread you'd think anyone who is against Morse examinations is anti-code. Anything but. I've been a CW op at my club's Field Day station when I signed up to work VHF/UHF and SSB. Why? My code skills were the best available. I am proficient at CW, though I am sure some in this thread can copy much faster code than I can and have better fists than I do. I have CW-only QRP rigs that I use regularly. There is a difference between enjoying CW and believing it must be mandatory.

I invite all of you who don't believe what I wrote in the above paragraph to join the G-QRP list and read it for awhile. Many British Foundation class licensees (those are no code HFers, BTW) are choosing to learn CW and are becoming quite skilled. CW won't die so long as people enjoy it and it is easier to get people inetrested when it's voluntary and when they can learn the advantages of the mode for themselves. Ramming CW down people's throats when the rest of the world is elimintating the exam requirement only makes them hostile to the mode. They have to come to it on their own with encouragement, not hostility.

From this thread you'd think those of us who think the Morse examination has outlived its usefulness want to give away licenses. Hardly. Anyone who had bothered to read my posts over the years rather than merely repeat themselves and spew vitriol knows that I think the written exams need to be strengthened. It's not about less testing. It is about relevant testing.

To the gentleman who said he'd never have joined this hobby for emergency communications: fine. However, those that do participate are the ones who justify our bands, including our CW bands. They do the work that allows you to enjoy your hobby. At least respect them for that.

To the gentleman that said that CW has a mystique to young people: maybe a few, but there are no throngs of young people looking to learn CW. What this hobby had 20 or 30 years ago was the allure of being on the cutting edge of technology. It was about learning and doing things that were modern and progressive (in a technical sense, not a political one) and that were just plain cool. Now the closest thing we can offer is a QSO with the International Space Station, and even that is passe. We need to get off the trailing edge. We need to be seen as pioneers, not as an anachronism. Insisting on a 150+ year old mode of communications seems, to me, to make us even more of an anachronism.

I was a General before the so-called "Novice Enhancement" came around in 1986 or 1987. For those who don't remember that was when Novices and Techs got voice priveleges on 10m. Before that HF was CW only unless you held a General or higher class license. I made the comment at the time that if the "enchancement" had existed when I was a Tech I'd never have upgraded. I still do more VHF/UHF weak signal work than HF. It's what I enjoy best so I can understand why the author hasn't bothered to upgrade. OTOH, I am very glad I did upgrade. We were given 12 and then 17 meters, two bands I really enjoy which allow me to escape from contests. I learned how wonderful 15 meters is. I can use 40m at night when nothing above that is open. The point, though, is that people have to decide for themselves that they want to branch out. Again, lecturing or scolding won't do that. Encouragement and elmering will.

Oh, and no, I don't believe dropping the CW requirement will bring in many new hams. History has shown that it won't. We were told the Novice Enhancement would bring in new hams and very few newcomers joined our ranks. We were told the same about the 5 WPM General at that proved to be untrue as well. History will repeat when the Morse examination goes away. We'll have lots of instant upgrades but few newcomers. 5 WPM is simple memorization and is an obstacle to very few. It also isn't fast enough for meaningful communications.

The problem with attracting newcomers is how the pubic perceives us and how we market (or fail to market) ourselves. The division in our hobby is part of the problem. eHam is part of our public face. If I was a newcomer and this was my introduction to ham radio I'd lose interest immediately. Who needs a bunch of people fighting and squabbling over trivia? Who needs a bunch of anachronistic retreads with superior attitudes?

Finally, yes, unification of phone and CW ops is necessary. That isn't a great divide. Many, if not most of us, do both anyway. The number of active hams is perhaps 300,000-350,000. That's a very small number compared to the general population. In terms of providing services (i.e.: in emergencies) and in terms of political clout and lobbying ability that means we are relatively weak. If we unite together we might just be strong enough to get things done. Divided the commercial interests will pick our allocations off one by one.

73,
Caity
K7VO
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K3EY on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Caity....changing the world one word at a time. You're wasting finger energy. I have been licensed almost 25 years and nothing has changed except this venue of communication where it shows up faster and to more people. Before the CW/SSB debate it was SSB/AM, and long before that Spark and the "new" technology. You are NOT going to change a THING, but we can all surely do our OWN THING and not worry about some Joe holding his HT or hitting the keyboard spewing what's right and what's wrong with (OUR) hobby, just enjoy the damn thing and forget about it.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N2XE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
N3JBH Wrote:

"John if you thought I was serious about bowing to you. [sic] Then [sic] your [sic] more of a fool then [sic] I thought.
And [sic]based on what I have read on here. [sic] I think the vast majority would over whelmingly agree on
What[sic sic sic] we believe you are. I am sorry to sound that way. But [sic sic]then [sic]it sounds like I am not in the minority here with that opinion."
__________________________________________________________

I'm happy to see you found the SHIFT key. With a little more hard work, maybe you'll be able to figure out the correct usage for commas and periods.

I'm afraid that your ill command of the English language, spelling, grammar and punctuation would preclude you from becoming a minimally proficient CW operator. It doesn't bode well for you on phone either.

Here's the irritating thing Jeff: It's not your inablity to master Morse that is annoying, it's your absolute lack of desire or effort to lift a finger. Anyone can learn Morse. It's well established that the lower one's IQ, the better they do at it. So in your case, it should be like falling off a log yet you opt to sit back, wait for the FCC to fix it for you then (not "than" dammit, please note my expert use of then and than) ask us all to respect you for being an unmotivated, uninspired slug. For God's sake, you don't even care to master your native tongue.

The point of your article--please respect me because I got for free, what you didn't--is repugnant. As I said before, your article couldn't be more transparent.

Why do we have to get along anyway? Really, why does a CW op have to get along with a phone op? Is it really a bad thing if we don't love each other?
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K3EY on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Why do we have to get along anyway? Really, why does a CW op have to get along with a phone op? Is it really a bad thing if we don't love each other

----------------------------------------------------


I LOVE YOU MAN!!

Give me a beer......
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by WR6J on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
N2XE wrote:

"It's well established that the lower one's IQ, the better they [sic] do [sic] at it."

Since you appear to be so critical when it comes to grammar, you should know that you mixed up the use of the third person singular with the third person plural. You should have written either "lower their IQ," or "better one does at it."

Richard
WR6J

 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N2XE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"Since you appear to be so critical when it comes to grammar, you should know that you mixed up the use of the third person singular with the third person plural. You should have written either "lower their IQ," or "better one does at it."

Yes, touche'. Then again, your critque wasn't lost on me either...
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K3EY on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
You guys both need to relax with a cold one
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N2XE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
critique - beat you, ha!
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N3JBH on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Folks please leave Mr. Choocherelli Go on about his ranting here sorry if I may have misspelled the name Johnny
As you have declared me as mentally challenged. I find his perception on basing the IQ of people based merely on the use of grammar and the literary skills to be most fascinating indeed. Furthermore Johnny�s educational ability's are well documented on his own web site. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4z83c/

So they're for how is a person to argue these findings. He has a most impressive list of credentials. He has proven his superior knowledge in many fields. Folks we should be humbled to be in the presence of such greatness here. On his website he show a picture of a so-called friend on the side of a cliff. He claims to be the there in his article but out side of the picture. I say really are you now? You don't believe me john. I but your lying there to john.

And what is this picture on your sight about little white face mountain. John there is a bicycle trail to the top of littlie white face for god's sake. That made you a man didn't it?
You see John wow you find it necessary to belittle folks on here. And make remarks on what you believe their skills and intellectual value maybe. But there is a resounding point I guess to your statement about a persons IQ. Apparently mine is not quite as high as I wish it was or I be way smarter then to set here and argue with the likes of a person like you.

I guess the only real benefit of doing all this arguing with you is the fact I am bringing out your real quality�s here for every one to see. And believe me from the input I have been receiving I been doing a wonderful job at that.

Now Johnny boy I do have one last question? If you are so brilliant and smart and do hold such a prestige's title at IBM why haven't you gotten your PhD? Wouldn't a person whom calls them self the senior engineer at IBM want a PhD in there portfolio?

That's a Pretty prestige's claim to be making John I have to ask Mike Daniels about this one. Well any ways please fire away at will. Jeff/N3JBH
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N3JBH on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
K3EY says
"You guys both need to relax with a cold one"

your right Curt come on over i enjoy one or so with ya.besides i am done with Mr. Yuppy any way's this want on far enough. he has shown his true colors.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by WR6J on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
You're too quick on the draw for me ;-)

Back to the topic at hand.

In my opinion nobody should feel bad for not having upgraded and neither should anyone feel superior for having done so.

In the medical field one could argue that the paragon of achievement is to become a surgeon. Does that mean the general practitioners are to be derided? Should nurses be looked down on? The healthcare system needs a variety of "skill levels" with individuals focused on their particular calling. By concentrating on their chosen areas of expertise each "level" provides valuable service. Not only that, but I suspect that most surgeons would not make good nurses - even if they were technically proficient to do the job.

I am sure my analogy breaks down in many ways. However, someone who (for whatever reason) devotes their amateur radio time to VHF and UHF only could quite possibly become more proficient in that area than someone else who spends more of their time on HF. VHF and UHF play an important role in emergency communication and the value those operators alone bring to the community could justify the Amateur Radio Service in my opinion.

Just because the next level is "there" doesn't mean everyone should feel obliged to pursue it, whether they are capable or not.

Richard
WR6J
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by NN6EE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Amateur Radio isn't different than any other "Human-activity", whether any of us are MAN enough to admit it, ALL HUMANS ARE "CLASS-CONCIOUS", all of us!!! And in all of us it's taken to various levels from extreme to subtle but it's STILL there and always will be until all of us (humans) cease to exist!!!

With that said, keep a basic CODE requiremnt for the TOP TICKET and make the General even easier (NO-Code)!!!

You guys think there's "class-concious" problems NOW???

GAWD! You ain't seen nothing YET!!!

Jim/ee
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N2XE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"As you have declared me as mentally challenged."

I declared you to be lazy, a liar and seeking admiration you didn't earn. If you want to add mentally challenged to the list, so be it. I'm honored that you spent your afternoon Googling me. Gosh, just yesterday I got a phone call from you too. Can I expect a Christmas card this year?
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by W6TH on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
.

Curt/k3ey
Many thanks my friend Curt. We think the same.

Have many happy hollidays and when the weather gets warmer I will be in my new home in New Hampshire. Wife and family are there now getting my ham shack in order.

My attitude will be what consists in NH and possibly won't be hanging around the computer gabbing a nothing. I will have the NH attitude which is well needed in Mass and the rest of the world.

Take care and maybe we can have a great QSO in the future.

73, W6TH

.:
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by RobertKoernerExAE7G on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
A ham ticket, a computer, and access to the internet, does not give us penetrating insight to ourselves, let alone expert understanding of another person, many times a total stranger.

Further more, passing tests for Tech, General, and Extra, dot not bestow Phds in Sociology, Psychiatry, Economics, or Physics. Passing a ham test doesn�t even indicate personal emotional stability.

Maybe, if anything is needed in ham radio, it is to use Adam Smith�s �invisible hand� by focussing on our own stations, and operating practices.

Bob
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by NN6EE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Dear Vito,

Are you an "Ol-Fart"??? Well YES YOU ARE!!!

Am I an "Ol'Fart"??? Why YES I AM TOO, though age-wise only 58, but because of my TENURE in the hobby (43yrs.)& using both modes equally the whinnie-NCTS call me one as well!!! I love it!!!

"Class-distinction" will always be around!!!

For those not WILLING to expend just a smidge more of EFFORT to LEARN Intl. Morse is a real shame, not only from the standpoint of ACCOMPLISHMENT (not in the NCT volcabulary) but from the shear ENJOYMENT of the quote-un-quote "archaic-mode"!!!

Merry Xmas Vito!!!

Jim/ee
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N2XE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"A ham ticket, a computer, and access to the internet, does not give us penetrating insight to ourselves, let alone expert understanding of another person, many times a total stranger."

True, but reading what they write does.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by NN6EE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
N2XE,

Correct!!!

That's why all of US have our own "OPINIONS!!!"

That's why eHam is here!

Comprende???

Jim/ee
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K1CJS on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Said K3EY:

"I feel sorry for you, stuck as a tech for an eternity holding an HT trying to convince the world CW sucks and that anyone thinking otherwise is a moron."

At least Vito speaks his mind when he know of the person he's talking about. You don't know me, yet you comment---and make an as* of yourself. It just so happens that I respect Vito for what he has and has done, but I have no respect for you--and don't you tell me what I think. It so happens I'm happy with what I am doing. Can you say the same? Probably not. I feel sorrier for you than for Vito, you're obviously not happy where you are--even though you are an extra.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by NN6EE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Hiya Chris,

Boy! You're a real "Poop-Disturber" are'nt yah!!! :-)))

Sheet Boy!!! I've got no problems with anybody doing their own thing on Amateur Radio but even the NCTS want to "classify others" of longer standing in the "HOBBY" so that does'nt say much for your "younger-brethren" either!!!

Jim/ee
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by W8JII on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
To N2XE; " Anyone can learn Morse. It's well established that the lower one's IQ, the better they do at it."

Not looking for a fight at all. Just curious about that statement. Where is it well established that the lower your IQ the better you are at CW? I've never heard that before. 73, ron
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by NN6EE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
W8JII,

If you look at fancy-schmancy XE he got his EXTRA memorizing the "BOOK" ("pre-ordained answers")!!!

Again! "Classification"/chaste system rears it's hypocritical-head, no matter what level!!!

AMAZING!!!

Jim/ee
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by NN6EE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
One other comment!

I bet N2XE also thinks that "OHMS LAW" was a TV program back in the 60's!!!

:-)))

Jim/ee
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by THERAGE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Hey folks read this one: http://www.arrl.org/news/enforcement_logs/2002/0810.html

What a windchime.

toodles :)
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N2XE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"N2XE,
Correct!!!
That's why all of US have our own "OPINIONS!!!"
That's why eHam is here!
Comprende???
Jim/ee"

Jim, what's your point? Jeff wrote his, I wrote mine.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by NN6EE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
HELLO MR. NO-CALL!!!

Hmmm??? Yes that was imposed against me MORON, but like many others I suffered NO SANCTIONS. NO LOSS OF PRIVILEGES, NO MONETARY FORFEITURE, NO NOTHING!!! Still active and still licensed, so instead of trying to drag up ol'BS (2002-that was ultimately proved BOGUS) that has no revelence at all why don't you give your real name and CALL out here instead of being a gross-pussy???

Jim/ee
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N2XE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
" To N2XE; " Anyone can learn Morse. It's well established that the lower one's IQ, the better they do at it."
Not looking for a fight at all. Just curious about that statement. Where is it well established that the lower your IQ the better you are at CW? I've never heard that before. 73, ron"

I believe it's either in Pierpont's "The Art and Skill of Radio Telegraphy" or possibly a document referenced by Pierpont. I think it comes from a military study in the 1930s or there about. Let me dig into it and get the exact reference...
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by NN6EE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
You tell me as you're not following anything!!!

EVERYBODY HAVE A HAPPY KWANZAA/HAPPY HUNAKHA (whatever)POLITICALLY IN-CORRECT-"MERRY CHRIST--MAS" (I bet frigg'n Muslims hate that), and to all HAPPY(POLITCALLY CORRECT)HOLIDAYS!!!

Jim/ee
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N2XE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Information before the Commission indicates that you have been notified several times about these problems but have neglected to take action.

We note that, as an Advanced Class licensee, you should have sufficient knowledge to correct this relatively simple problem and should also be familiar with the Amateur rules as set forth in Part 97. Please contact a local Amateur Radio club, however, if you are uncertain how to proceed.
__________________________________________________________

Pretty funny though...

I like the way they try to shame you into action. Since when does the FCC send out enforcement letters for alternator whine? Who would even send in the complaint?

I gotta side with Jim on this one, sounds bogus to me.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by THERAGE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Tsk, tsk... Seems to have the same persona that Jack Gerritsen did. Oh, well.

All you NCT's, newbies, lids, etc., jim/ee is a prime example that it doesn't matter who you are to screw things up. Why, the FCC even sent him a letter to warn him of his harmful emissions. Kiddies, don't be like Jack or jim/ee. Be gud ops, or you'll find yourselves in the nut farm faster than you can call -.-. --.-

What an Alpha Henry
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by WA1RNE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"My attitude will be what consists in NH and possibly won't be hanging around the computer gabbing a nothing.

"I will have the NH attitude which is well needed in Mass and the rest of the world.



Hey Vito, have to admit, this one is your best yet. I think you messed up a little though.



It should read:


"My attitude is what NH consists of and probably hanging around the computer gabbing a nothing."

"I have the NH attitude which is well known in Mass and the rest of the world."



You know me, I'm just a stickler for accuracy.



Best 73s, from Beantown to the Boonies.....


Chris
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K3EY on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
At least Vito speaks his mind when he know of the person he's talking about. You don't know me, yet you comment---and make an as* of yourself. It just so happens that I respect Vito for what he has and has done, but I have no respect for you--and don't you tell me what I think. It so happens I'm happy with what I am doing. Can you say the same? Probably not. I feel sorrier for you than for Vito, you're obviously not happy where you are--even though you are an extra.

------------------------------------------------------


First, I never implied whatever you are imagining. Lets cut to the chase and get at whats really eating you as per your last few words here, (even though you are an extra) That really kills you doesnt it.

I also have several other government licenses from the FCC and the FAA, does that make me suicidal maniac, or does that just eat at your craw, which is it?

You wrote your identity all over QRZ telling us all you are a emergency coordinator, thats who you are according to what you wrote, and according to what you see on QRZ I am a genius. Therefore this genius is telling you to sit back and relax while you still can unless you want the verbal beating of your life.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by W6TH on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
.

I dunna knw Jim/ee, but I consider meself a young squirt as hve plenty of life in me yet.

You can nw c tt fm da luks of dese tecks and tr comments tt the arrl knw hw to plan tngs in dr favor.

U knw es tt is to make mre phone to over-ride the CW voting.

Wishing you the best of hollidays and a great coming new year.

Put sum Phillips code in fer u to cpi es hpe u can figger it out. 73 Jim. Tnx.

Vito W6TH
.:
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by AG4RQ on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
by N2XE
"" To N2XE; " Anyone can learn Morse. It's well established that the lower one's IQ, the better they do at it."
Not looking for a fight at all. Just curious about that statement. Where is it well established that the lower your IQ the better you are at CW? I've never heard that before. 73, ron"

I believe it's either in Pierpont's "The Art and Skill of Radio Telegraphy" or possibly a document referenced by Pierpont. I think it comes from a military study in the 1930s or there about. Let me dig into it and get the exact reference..."


To N2XE:
No, according to Mr. Pierpont, intelligence is not a factor. Here is an excerpt from his book:



The Art and Skill of Radio-Telegraphy
William G. Pierpont N0HFF

Chapter 3

Part I: Laying the Foundation


Almost anyone who can learn to read can learn the code. There is no such thing as a normal person who wanted to learn the code and couldn't. "I can't learn the code" nearly always translates into "I won't commit myself to the time necessary to learn it," or that a person doesn't really want to, even though he may think he does. Age, whether young or old, and intelligence, bright or dull, are no barriers. Youngsters of four or five can learn quickly, and oldsters of 90 have succeeded, too. You wouldn't want to admit that a four-year old or a 90-year-old could outdo you, would you? It doesn't require superior intelligence, just right application.

Most handicaps, such as blindness or even deafness, have not stopped those who want to learn. Deaf people have been able to learn and receive using their fingers on the driver of a speaker at 30 wpm or on the knob of an electromagnetically driven "key knob" bouncing up and down at 20-wpm. (Even some people with dislexia have been able to learn to a useful extent.) It is easy if you really want to learn it and then go about learning it in the right way. Any person of reasonable intelligence can learn the Morse code and become a very good operator, able to copy it with a pencil at 25-wpm and send it clearly, smoothly and readably.

There is no real justification for the statement that "some people just can't learn the code." (They don't want to.) It's a matter of motivation, the secret of learning any skill. If you are one of those who tried in the past and somehow didn't make it, or got stuck at 8 or 10 or 12-wpm, take heart. Forget what you previously "learned", and start over with the principles set forth here, and you will succeed.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by W6TH on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
.

WA1RNE,

Hello Chris. Going to be a nabor of urs shortly. Xyl and son picked out a huge house and getting it ready to set it up for her business. Xyl doesn't like the CA taxes or same for Mass. I will be out there shortly as have a few more things to do before boarding a plane. Probably by April.

My son has me connected to a web-cam so I can enjoy the NH weather everyday before it gets dark. I am a Yankee so won't find it hard to adjust to the cold weather as we have 21 degrees here in CA most every day this past two weeks. Will be looking forward to working you on CW if you do operate CW and will slow it down for you a bit.

Happy Hollidays to you and yours Chris and hope we may meet for an old eyeball QSO.

73, Vito W6TH. P.S. I am a Free State Porc. Hate taxes. Also Hate Governments.
.:
 
Time for Unification  
by K0RFD on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Kumbaya.

Now get real.
 
Hams unified around Morse Code!  
by N4QA on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I can see it now!

Hams tooting "hi" and "73" to one another in our nation's streets.

Ham-lovers playing footsie under the dinner table, tapping out "88" and sweet nothin's.

Hams using flashlights to blink orders for their favorite brews.

Hams using Morse Code to communicate via their radios.

That's right. Nothing unifies like Morse Code!
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K1CJS on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
K3EY--Curt,

Nothing is eating at me--except your ridiculous assumptions, and they aren't really that bothersome since you don't really know what you're talking about. As to the rest of your bull, it ain't worth my time anymore. You just don't know when to quit.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K1CJS on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Oh, BTW Curt, thanks for reminding me to update my QRZ listing, it was slightly out of date.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KILOWATT on December 19, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
>After all GOD does not have a Ham Licence.<



That may be true but I'll bet that he at least knows how to spell it.

 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KILOWATT on December 19, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
> The HF bands are of no real commercial use, due to their unreliability. It's entirely possible that 10 years from now the only frequencies still allotted to ham radio will be 6 meters and below.<



Unreliable? Not so. The government wouldn't sell 40 meters to private businesses for fleet communications. They'ld sell it to commercial broadcast stations. 100,000 watts and 500 foot towers tend to make the bands much more reliable. Even when 40 is dead, I can still hear the same broadcast stations year round.
 
RE: N2XE Called me a liar  
by KILOWATT on December 19, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
>Whew... yes, you'll never be elite, that's pretty clear. Let me just say that it's the folks that can't spend 20 minutes a night for ten days in a row and pass a 5 WPM test that think those who did are elite. It's your definition, not mine.<



HAHA!

After those two moronic posts, I was thinking the same thing. To hell with cw. Looks like the old boy never mastered the basic english language!
 
Time for Unification  
by K0RGR on December 19, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
After reading the QST editorial this month, I thought I'd stumbled on the answer: implement half of what ARRL is proposing in regards to granting NCT's HR priveleges - give them the non-voice HF priveleges in limited bands, with limited power levels, as proposed. Essentially, they'd have a little more than the old Novice priveleges, with less power, but with digital capability in addition to CW.

This solution would induce NCT's to explore non-voice modes on HF before they ever get out the michrophone, and hopefully prevent bad habits from elsewhere from propagating first to 2 meter FM, and then to HF phone bands.

I hoped that use of written communications, ala PSK31, would help raise the tone of the communication, and also provide the kind of shield that CW did for young people when I was a kid - you can't immediately tell the age of the person you're working if you're not on 'phone. This would encourage QSO's.

But after reading this thread, I think maybe it would not help much. Too many people would assume that all digital signals were NCT's and just QRM them.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KC8VWM on December 19, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
You cannot think for yourself. And if someone disagrees with you, you tell him to go to 27.854.
Yes Charles,,,it is very obvious you are an Ivy League member wannabe but your are angry because your daddy never spent any time with you. And you are really angry because your daddy did not care so much to give you the ass whipping you so wanted and deserved. Well Charles, such is life. Grow up and
quit being a weenie. Go put chillie on it.


Charles you are a Liberal who believes in Social Promotion though you do not know what Social Promotion is so I will explain it to you.....

------


John, speaking of growing up and acting like a weenie, you might like to know that you are a classic example of what is wrong with amateur radio today.

I wan't to take this opportunity to thank for your clear validation and demonstration on the matter.

Oh, I suppose your ranting means you want my little explanation of why I usually tell people to "QSY thier mentality to 27.185" when they have demonstrated themselves to be deserving of such a reply.

Come to think of it John, you seem to have demonstrated yourself to be deserving of such a comment. Well anyways, just so your not confused on the matter, I don't have any intention of requesting this when someone disagree's with me, but rather it's a request I use when I feel an individual has demonstrated themselves to be worthy of such a comment.

I can't help but wonder John, are your comments worthy of such a request?


Well thanks for your "73's" there John, and remember to keep the greasy side down.

Happy Holidays,

Charles - KC8VWM
 
Time for Unification  
by N5XM on December 19, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Each of us is either part of the solution or part of the problem as far as this issue is concerned. We all don't agree on every issue, and that's fine. You can learn a lot more from someone you disagree with than from someone who thinks the same way you do. Unfortunately, Ego sometimes gets in the way and keeps us from taking an honest look at other's opinions. Add 'em all up and you have a whole pie, and it takes all the pieces to make the whole pie. For me, the bottom line is two things...treating my fellow human being as I expect to be treated, and the pursuit of excellence in Ham Radio.

Give your fellow Ham a break, you might desire one someday yourself.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by NN6EE on December 19, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
by THERAGE on December 18, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Tsk, tsk... Seems to have the same persona that Jack Gerritsen did. Oh, well.

All you NCT's, newbies, lids, etc., jim/ee is a prime example that it doesn't matter who you are to screw things up. Why, the FCC even sent him a letter to warn him of his harmful emissions. Kiddies, don't be like Jack or jim/ee. Be gud ops, or you'll find yourselves in the nut farm faster than you can call -.-. --.-

What an Alpha Henry

****************************************************
Now look who's calling the "kettle black"!!! My My!!!
****************************************************
N2XE.

Something that "The Rag...oops! I meant Rage does'nt know obviously is that ALL THE OO's IN THE EASTBAY SECTION INVOLVED WITH OUR BOGUS CASE WERE SUMMARILY DISMISSED FROM THE ARRL OO PROGRAM!!! Rosalie White had to do that un-paralleled act because of litigation problems they knew the OOs involved would cause her and our fine organization aka ARRL!!! THe local OOs tended to be SLIGHTLY PETTY AND VINDICTIVE and it came back on them BIG TIME!!!

Now you all know "The rest of the story!"

So now Mr. Anonymous can crawl back in his hole and maybe find a interesting Kiddie's chatroom to get involved with!!!
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by WA1RNE on December 19, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Vito;

Sounds good.....send me an email or give me a call when you get settled, I'm in the book.


73,

Chris
 
Time for Unification  
by WR8Y on December 19, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
< by KC2IJI
< I have been a mere Tech for the last 5 years. The only < place I have encountered rudeness and the vitrol of < < bitter old men is on eham and QRZ.

I have been licensed since 1974 and I have observed the same thing EXCEPT for a strange discussion between a VE1 and a K1 on about 14.270 last saturday.

Ham radio continues to be a wonderful hobby for me, and it certainly has something for everyone. (SSB, CW, Digital modes, Space Communications, Antenna Building, Homebrew Construction, DXing, Contesting, Ragchewing, QRP, Backpack portable, Microwave Experimentation ... )

73,
Mark
WR8Y
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by EXWA2SWA on December 19, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
An interesting and enlightening thread. I've held Novice (WV2SWA), Tech (WA2SWA), General and now Extra (KE5CXX) class tickets - and the comments I'd make are:

EVERY class license is a license to have fun, and there are a bazillion or more ways to do that with or without code. I operate CW because I enjoy it, not because it makes me or anyone else a better operator - it's my (our?) way of having fun.

EVERY class license is a license to learn. Once one of us thinks (s)he knows everything there is to know about our hobby, we all lose. I can't remember how much I've forgotten from my Tech days (I was QRT for about 40 years) but it does seem that I've got much more to learn now than then. If the tests seem less challenging now, it may be that they were too difficult in the good ol' days.

EVERY licensee has the opportunity to enjoy those parts of the hobby that pertain to his interests and are within his license's privileges. If upgrading is necessary to fulfill that enjoyment, so be it. If the current license allows one to pursue his area of interest, so be it. That's a choice - not a class distinction.

Finally, EVERY licensee is obligated, in spirit if not law, to use the frequencies available respectfully, to treat other operators cordially and to help one another, and the unlicensed public, cheerfully when the occasion warrants.

Cheerio, Vy 73, Merry Christmas and Kumbaya,
Jim KE5CXX


 
RE: Time for Unification  
by NN6EE on December 19, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
VITO M'BOY!!!

Tnx fer the CW rply!!! All of us r getting oldr or else we'd b dead!!!

The bst to u es urs OT!!!

73,

Jim/ee
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K8MHZ on December 19, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Getting along is NOT the American Way.

What good would come of not making waves?

Why waste our precious freedom of speech by biting our toungues?

Just think of how boring sports would be if THEY all got along.

Geez...

What am I going to read here next?? Why can't we all just use the same mode?
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KC8VWM on December 19, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

So, why can't we all just use the same mode?

:)

Happy Holidays.

Charles - KC8VWM
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by AG4RQ on December 19, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"So, why can't we all just use the same mode?"

Great idea! Lets all take a vote. I vote for CW. It's allowed on all amateur frequencies except the 60m channels. Can't get any more universal than that.


 
Time for Unification  
by ZS6RJ on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I read the continual "battle" that seems to be going on Stateside regarding code/no code with amazement. In South Africa, we have two classes of licence, with the prefixes ZS and ZR.

Until recently, only ZS prefix callsigns had HF priviledges, which were gained by passing a cw test at 12 wpm. Following that, you had to provide proof of contact with 200 stations using cw before gaining phone access on HF. Over time, these requirements were relaxed. Firstly the 200 QSO rule was dropped, then CW speed for the test was reduced to 5wpm and now ZR callsigns can operate HF phone without any CW achievements over a wide range of frequencies.

However, the advent of ZR's with no code experience gaining access to bands that were traditionally the domain of full ZS licence holders has not caused anywhere near the furore in South Africa that seems to be raging on in the States! It simply happened and was accepted.

Granted, we only have in the region of 7 000 amateur licences issued in South Africa, of which I suspect about 4 000 are active. But still, the point is CW operators merrily carry on with their interests in harmony with phone only operators. I personally am a (relatively) young ham (38) who loves CW. But I'll happily spend the odd weekend ragchewing in the phone section without ever wondering if the ZR (or Stateside!) station I'm talking to is adept at sending CW or not! I get just as big a kick out of being a Stateside's first ZS QSO regardless of whether I meet the station on CW or phone! What's all the fuss about? Enjoy all aspects of this hobby and live and let live!

Here ends my 2 cents worth from a DX station perspective! 73, Roger, ZS6RJ.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K8MHZ on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"Let's take a vote"

I vote for HellSchrieber
 
Time for Unification  
by WA6BFH on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!

Since our MF/HF spectrum amounts to about .0001% of our total spectrum, that is about as much importance as I attach to it.
 
Time for Unification  
by KD6NIG on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
One rule that ISN'T in the FCC rules is the one that REQUIRES you to talk to anyone.

If someone is being a Alpha Hotel on the air, on the internet, or anywhere for that matter, there is no real requirement to talk to them.

I've found myself only twice in situations where someone tried to chastise me for being a 13 year NCT. In both situations I did the same thing-I identified and disseapeared. That was the only obligation I had to stay within the rules as defined.

Most people will bring up this topic to start a fight or get things going or whatever. Just because the bait is tossed out there, doesn't mean the fish has to bite. Same for this debate :)

I have my own reasons for having not upgrade and I have mentioned them numerous times. Whenever I do, I'm basically told that my excuses don't hold water. So, in that case, I'm not going to remention them, because there is also nothing in the rules that states I have to upgrade. So, NYAH! to all of you who think I have to. As long as I stay within the confines of my current licence, I'm not doing anything wrong, and I can go about upgrading (or never) as I please.

If that is not satisfactory to all of you, then I suggest you get going on a petition to the FCC to make it a requirement. Until then, I can't use HF, but thats fine with me. I've lived without it for thirteen years, and I'd probably be ok for another 13 if thats what it takes.

As for all of the elite, keep approaching me on here, in real life, etc and try to profess to me to be a 'better ham' by learning code. Get your blood pressure up because I haven't done it yet. Go ahead. But remember, there is no rule that says I have to know it for my current licence class, and no rule that says I have to upgrade within X number of hours, days, weeks or years. I'm happy where I'm at now, and yeah, I may upgrade eventually, code or not, but it will probably be partially a monatary decision as well as a desire to be on HF, etc. Its not like when code goes poof that if I upgraded the next day I would be an instant large station HF ham anyway. In fact, unless I had access to another ham's station, I doubt I would be on HF in the first month on my own simply because of the need to then setup radios-and pay for said setup.

Just like someone pushed D-Star around here, sometimes I think the code-no code debates are indirectly sponsored by every drug company that makes heart and blood pressure medication-because it sure does spike it in some people around here :)
 
RE: Time for Clarification  
by N3DRK on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
One does not hear this type of dribble on the ham bands. This dribble exists only on places like qrz.com and eham.net and the reason is 95% is due
to techie trolling. These techies are from the cb band
who passed a meaningless test that an eight year old
can pass and with this minimalist license they can know operate 2 meters, which is an
extension of the citizens band, but in their eyes
what was most important was the issue of a callsign.
Now they are an "amateur radio operator". WOW. These
techies think they will get respect finally from
the amateur radio community. And when they do not
they come onto forums like eham and trash hams who
see them for what they are. LOSERS.

I and others do not associate with losers and never
will. No way in hell am I going to lower my standard
and mentality for the simpletons. Stay a techie and on this eham. I am going to the ham bands where the real hams are. The ones who know the code.
 
RE: Time for Clarification  
by WB2WIK on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: Time for Clarification Reply
by N3DRK on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
One does not hear this type of dribble on the ham bands. This dribble exists only on places like qrz.com and eham.net and the reason is 95% is due<

::Um, the word is, "drivel."

 
RE: There are CW Lids Too  
by WA3KYY on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"W6TH was'nt driving any wedge, he only made a simple true statement. It seems it went straight to the heart of a few. I work all bands, modes. I got sick to death of all the crap on phone that we can hear just about everywhere. I became inactive on hf. I'd listen around, same ole crap. A few weeks ago i dug my old key out and started "bang'n brass". The split won't be found in the cw bands. Everyone respects everyone else there. If anyone wants a taste of it all you have to do is say "-.-. --.-" WR8D"

I sure hope you aren't including all those members of the Dawg Xray Chasers who were acting like a bunch of lids on CW during the short KP5 DXpedition last week. The tuner-uppers, ditters, frequency cops and other very lidish behaviors I heard on the CW bands were appalling. I guess the CW Ragchewers don't behave like that but what I heard on each of their CW frequencies was worse than a contest. Not any different on SSB but it does show that CW ops are not without their lids either. Not much respect being shown by those CW ops toward their compatriots.

It's always the minority who misbehave in any group that is remembered and shows you cannot easily generalize from them to the larger group.
 
RE: Time for Clarification  
by N3DRK on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
WB2WIK said:

"by N3DRK on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
One does not hear this type of dribble on the ham bands. This dribble exists only on places like qrz.com and eham.net and the reason is 95% is due<

::Um, the word is, "drivel." "

Go buy yourself a Merriam-Webster Dictionary and
look up dribble WB2WIK.
 
RE: Time for Clarification  
by N3DRK on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
WB2WIK said:

"::Um, the word is, "drivel." "
_____________________________________________________

There is no word named "Um" Steven. Not in my dictionary anyways.
Mail this to a friend.
 
RE: Time for Clarification  
by K5DVW on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Dribble is slobber or what you do with a basketball. Drivel is incoherent babbling, which is what this article is.
 
RE: Time for Clarification  
by KC8VWM on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I just had this discussion on QRZ..lol
 
RE: Time for a Parity Response  
by KC8VWM on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
One does not hear this type of dribble on the ham bands. This dribble exists only on places like qrz.com and eham.net and the reason is 95% is due
to techie trolling. These techies are from the cb band
who passed a meaningless test that an eight year old
can pass and with this minimalist license they can know operate 2 meters, which is an
extension of the citizens band, but in their eyes
what was most important was the issue of a callsign.
Now they are an "amateur radio operator". WOW. These
techies think they will get respect finally from
the amateur radio community. And when they do not
they come onto forums like eham and trash hams who
see them for what they are. LOSERS.

I and others do not associate with losers and never
will. No way in hell am I going to lower my standard
and mentality for the simpletons. Stay a techie and on this eham. I am going to the ham bands where the real hams are. The ones who know the code.


--------------------------------------


One does not hear this type of dribble on the NBA basket ball courts. This dribble exists only on my tshirt after eating a rancid hamfest hotdog and places like qrz.com and eham.net and the reason is 95 and 1/8th% is due to extra class trolling.

These extra's from the 75m cb radio band
who passed a so called self important test that even a blind dog can pass while sleeping and with this license they can know / operate antiquanted modes on 80 meters from thier rocking chairs, even though they can't even spell or even understand english grammar worth a crap, and use apostrophies to end all sentences, but in their blind eyes what was most important was the issue of a vanity callsign. Not to be confused with an issue of vanity fair, which is a girlie magazine I subscribe to every month along with my QST magazine.

Now they are an "Extra Class Amateur Radio Operator Extrordinaire." Pffft. These Extras's think their crap don't stink and they should somehow get instant respect finally from the Technician Class amateur radio community. And when they do not they come onto forums like eham.com and trash hams who really see them for what they are. LOSERS.

I and other Technician Class operators do not associate with losers and never will. No way in hell am I going to lower my standard and mentality for these Extra Class simpletons who dribble all over themselves like they are eating baby food. Stay an Extra class and bash away on this eham. I am going to the microwave ham bands where the real hams are. The ones who really know how to cook the air.
 
RE: Time for a Parity Response  
by NN6EE on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Who cares whether it's "dribble" or "drivel"!!!
I personally don't give a "Rat's Patuddy" one way or the other!!! Everybody knew what the other was talking about!!!

But I do have to agree with one other poster out here who had mentioned that usually the only REAL-FLAMERS" out here are the "FEW" NCTS who don't feel adequate at all because of the "short-comings" in their ability to learn something SO simple but also so UNIVERALLY-ACCEPTED!!!

Those guys do truly boogle one's rational thinking aka "logic"!!!

Jim/ee
 
What? Remove CW so young ones will get interested?  
by NT4XT on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Hey I don't even know who wrote the following quote, and I do not have the time to find out:

"Can't wait for the code to fall so some young fun people get into the hobby"

But I do have time to share my on air experience, and experience with regard to adolescents and teens when they see ham radio.

All the "kids" I've ever run into on the air who held their own licenses were doing CW, and at a demonstrated proficiency far in excess of the minimal token 5wpm.
Of all the non hams who are teens or younger I've ever seen, friends of my kids visiting, or while out in the field, every last one of them found CW to be intriguing- and they were interested, mostly they were in awe, and you could tell, they wished they could do that just because it's cool.

I believe that all the squawking for the abolishment of any and all Morse requirement, comes from adults.
Most definitely, I never met a kid, or pre adult ham, who complained about CW requirements, or wished the requirement did not exist.

To every kid I know, Morse code is pretty cool, precisely because only an infinitesimally small people on the planet can do it well enough to converse.
 
RE: What? Remove CW so young ones will get interes  
by NN6EE on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
VERY WELL PUT DARIN!!!

I applaude your astute observation!!!

I also appreciate your statement about only having to LEARN 5WPM as a "token act" WHICH IT IS!!!

Especially when you think about all that you can do when you get a "REAL-LICENSE!!!"

MERRY XMAS TO ALL!!! (Though politically-correct NCTS would probably BITCH about that too!!!) They complain about everything it seems!!!

Jim/ee
 
RE: What? Remove CW so young ones will get interes  
by NN6EE on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
NCTS complain about everything just like the "FRENCH" do!!!

:-)))
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KILOWATT on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
<So, why can't we all just use the same mode?

:)

Happy Holidays.

Charles - KC8VWM<



That seems to be the rub, brother!!! WE CAN ALL TALK! Any yahoo can press a PTT switch.

There was a time when being a ham meant something. They were the guys that held themselves to a higher standard and knew all of that "technological stuff" and could communicate in some cryptic language that most couldn't understand.

Keep in mind, folks; Morse code USED TO BE OUR COMMON MODE THAT SEPARATED US FROM EVERYONE ELSE. ESPECIALLY 11 METER OPERATORS!!! That's what usually kept them out of our bands. It's what made us "elite".

Yeah. Let's choose a common mode. The common mode we used to use.

 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KC9FAC on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Doesn't anyone find it ironic that when someone
posts an article wondering why hams argue about
everything, it turns into a giant argument?

It's stupid.
But not just ordinary stupid.
I mean rock-hard stupid. Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid.
Stupid so stupid that it goes way beyond the stupid we know into a whole different dimension of stupid. Trans-stupid stupid. Meta-stupid. Stupid collapsed on itself so far that even the neutrons have collapsed. Stupid gotten so dense that no intellect can escape. Singularity stupid. Blazing hot mid-day sun on Mercury stupid. Quasar stupid. Nothing in our universe can really be this stupid. Perhaps this is some primordial fragment from the original big bang of stupid. Some pure essence of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond the laws of physics that we know.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KC8VWM on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
There was a time when being a ham meant something. They were the guys that held themselves to a higher standard and knew all of that "technological stuff" and could communicate in some cryptic language that most couldn't understand.

--------

Parody humor aside, I'm with you on that idea.

I think I just got into this too late in the game. But I do remember as a kid listening to hams as an SWL and the standards were quite a bit different than they are today.

There was a time you could put your callsign on a resume and it meant something. Today I observe less technically oriented individuals on the air. They don't understand what your talking about half the time and they would rather change the subject than engage in a technicaly oriented discussion.

Sad but true.

Happy Holidays Mr. K.

--... ...--
-.. .
-.- -.-. ---.. ...- .-- --
 
RE: Parlez Vous Francais?  
by KC8VWM on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
NCTS complain about everything just like the "FRENCH" do!!!

:-)))



..True.


Hey.. wait a sec. I'm a NCTS ?!


.... .- .--. .--. -.--

.... --- .-.. .. -.. .- -.-- ...
 
RE: Class?  
by KG6WLS on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Didn't come back here to whine or complain but,...

I posted here about four days ago and returned to see that...WOW! Funny at first but, idiotic.

If any child from an elementry school were to look into getting on board with ham radio because their OM dropped by the classroom with some rigs (new or old), or visted a field day sight, they would be in awe. Kids are receptive to things like this and would not whine or complain about studying for a test to get on the air. Their minds are like sponges, and with school they're already in test mode anyway.

Steve (WB2WIK), if I may... I'd like to "cut and paste" something you posted earlier:

<<Judge by the class of the person, not the class of his license.

Still, it pays to upgrade simply to maximize your fun.

If you're so busy having fun in ham radio that it doesn't matter, then you've already accomplished the goal most of us have.

WB2WIK/6 >>

Well said. And, if I'm reading this right, it would include Tech class, General class, and Extra class.

Now, if any of these kids you visted in school/field day(teachers and parents included) with your gear got to witness what "class of person" you are away from the PTT switch, or key, they would probally say "to hell with you" and/or "get out of my classrom". Some hams want to promote this hobby/service on one side of their face but, will not act like the "class of his license" that they hold on the other side. Sunny side up, greasy side down.

Assuming that a NCT is lazy, stupid, a "gimmie gimmie" person, etc., etc., is a fallacy. How can anyone be so ignorant to list ones intellect just by the the class of their license?

"Let's see...Hmm. We go into QRZ.com, look up their call sign, and "bingo". Yes folks, we have a NCT and he/she is proclaimed as a loser".

Want a bunch of crap. Twenty-four years working in the electrical field I can read a multi-meter, calculate voltage drop, trouble shoot controls, and oh yes... solder a PL259. If you scroll back towards the top, you'll see where I stand with ham radio.

Do I yak on a HT? No, but its batteries are charged and ready in case of an emergency.

Does all this ferity displayed in here make me want to pop in every 15 minutes with a reply? Nope.

Why am I not on HF? At the age of 42, I'm busy with work and I'm a single parent.

Does that make me lazy, or a loser? No. That means that I'm a responsible person who doesn't spend ALL of his time behind the radio, or the computer banging away obscenities with "caps" and holding down the !!!!!!!!! key. Remember this code?

BALANCED = radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed to family, job, school or community.

Yes, this is the internet and not radio. We're free to voice our own opinions about one another. Some go as far as being too personal. I didn't discover eHam until I stumbled across the "product reviews" section before I bought my IC-746PRO. Yep, that was my first rig and all the antennas that I have are homebrewed. The shack is still growing. And, when time allows, so does my enthusiasm.

So, go ahead. Beat yourselves up. Your "class" is showing.

Once again--

73 & (caps lock) MERRY CHRISTMAS & HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

KG6WLS/Mike


 
RE: Class?  
by KG6WLS on December 20, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Oh, yeah. One final.

If I misspelled, have poor grammar, or used improper punctuation, my deepest apologies. I know that it's just one of many of the prerequisites to ham radio :))
 
Time for Unification  
by KG4RRN on December 21, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
After being a tech for the past 3 years- I have heard theloudmouths on 2 meters, and HF (I have a shortwave radio).
Most of the condemnation I recieved being on 2 meters was from higher class licensees-but hey-- why are they on 2 meters???
Anyway, I finally got the lesson -the whole problem from my perspective is a mix of following traditions and learning, and that is the essence of the hobby.
I have also met some of the nicest operators and courtesy seems to be the attribute they most want to follow.
I have no doubts that the hobby should be enjoyed as I had commited myself to public service with ARES.
The naysayers and flamers are just that.
When a new ham has questions, someone needs directions,
or someone needs someone to help with a technical problem, I am there to assist them, in between a heavy work schedule, other things to do, and still able to enjoy making contacts.
The points I wish to make are these.
The repeater barflys are there to be self serving operators, and if they dont want to teach a new ham basic operating practices and methods,then they belong back over on HF spewing their hate mongering messages there-- these new hams have the brain power to pass the tech test, it was, nor is, easy-it proves they want to be in the hobby.Encourage them to upgrade !!
Instead of chasing people away from the hobby-embrace them and make them better operators-it can be done !
I am excited that this hobby now has a new mode: digital voice.
This mode was fought for by hams, like us, who saw the ability to do it, and they have.
I do not disrespect any operator I do not know, but I found that some need to be steered away from, and my advise to any operator who runs into one of these cranky old farts on the bands is:
Change the frequency !
I put too much of my hard earned cash into this hobby to be ridiculed or chased away from the service I can provide, if properly mentored or elmered as the saying goes.... PONDER
I do not consider this hobby a minor one.
It has been proved time and time again
WHEN all else fails- Amateur radio works !
Merry Christmas and Happy 2006 from KG4RRN
 
Time for Unification  
by KC9HVN on December 21, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
There was a time when being a ham meant something. They were the guys that held themselves to a higher standard and knew all of that "technological stuff" and could communicate in some cryptic language that most couldn't understand.

--------

There was a time that folks wore suits when they flew on planes too. Society in general has (arguably) degenerated somewhat from times past. As nice as it would be to think that Ham radio in general could act as the great "normalizer" ...to map the broad spectrum of personalities that participate in this hobby into genteel gentlemen... sadly, in this day and age, is perhaps too much to ask.

(Now for my cheap shot) on the other hand, CW, being the penultimate(sp?) "seat of the pants" radio mode seems to have this very effect on folks (i.e. makes most of them into "gentlemen"). Kinda like the difference between powerboaters and sailors, they are both into boating, but exhibit very different attiudes... perhaps due to the effort involved in getting somewhere.

73's

Mark.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by W6TH on December 21, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
.

Time for Unification?

How can this be so and will never happen.

The ARRL is looking for many more customers and members of their organization.

Japan is looking forward to selling more ham radio gear throughout the world.

The governments of all nations are looking to sell their ham radio gear to their national citizens.

The classes of licenses in These United States of America are a plan designated by our government and the wealthy business folks to increase their wealth.

Non for our interest, but for the wealth of the wealthy.

Your so called hobby is going to bring back separation of classes just like the separation of State and Church, whereas you need permission from our Governments before you can even get married, by needing a permit issued by the state for a profit.

Therefore forget this act of "Unification".

W6TH Extra class and a non vanity call.
.:
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N0FUZ on December 21, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"The sky is falling. The sky is falling."

ChickenLittle
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by AA4PB on December 22, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
The governments of all nations are looking to sell their ham radio gear to their national citizens
--------------------------------------------------
I think that you are over estimating the value of ham radio gear sold around the world. Governments would make a lot more money by auctioning off the frequencies used by ham radio than by collecting taxes on the sale of ham radio gear.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K1CJS on December 22, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
KD6NIG--good for you! That is also the way I feel about it. Good for you for speaking your mind.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by KV1E on December 22, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
What division(s)? There are divisions only if you make them.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K3EY on December 22, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
There was a time that folks wore suits when they flew on planes too. Society in general has (arguably) degenerated somewhat from times past.
-------------------------------------------------

With an America public today that holds Howard Stern at the top on the ratings on (RADIO) how in hell do you expect (ham) radio to be so different. With todays moral standards I think we all should be extremely pleased that amateur radio is as decent as it is, given todays bottom feeders who are glorified and celebrated by millions. Look to satellite radio to see depravity honored. There is absolutely NO argument that todays morals are in the toilet.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by WR8D on December 23, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Ref KG4RRN. Some of us loudmouths have the misfortune of owning the repeater system and have to be there. Sorry you've had a bad experiance. Here if i had it to do all over i would never of looked at a two meter rig much less buy into a repeater system. We have the kind of operators here that give all the new folks a bad name and honestly thats the reason all of you get clumped into just one group. When you finally get hf priviledges just get on there and have a good time. Don't be saying i'm a nocode this or that. Let it go, its not about cw. Its simply the character that we all see and hear on the air that will define what others think of you. Riley will tell you if you ask, the complaints he has are against guys and gals that passed 20wpm and 13wpm. Knowing code or not knowing it will not make you a better or worse operator. I guess there must just be something in the water many are drinking that makes them act the way they do when they get on a radio, but we've always had to deal with this. Its been around since amateur radio first started. I know one fellow here locally that waivered the code when i was a ve. All the "loudmouths" as you say were talking about him behind his back. Typicially he was called a cber, he had a doctor that signed a waiver so he did'nt have to take the code test. We all agreed that this guy was just using the system and he had found himself a "free ride". This is just an example of why some do so much bitching at new folks. What opened my eyes was the fact this old man honestly could'nt hear the tones of the cw signal on the tapes. He bought himself a rig with variable pitch on the cw tone, learned the code, and now he's a better cw operator than many of us. He can do over 50wpm in his head and talk with you at the same time in his shack. The point i'm getting at is there will always be bitching about this or that. Just do what ever is required of "you" to make which ever license you want then enjoy the hobby and to hell with what others think as long as you're nice on the air and don't act like a freebander. There's tons of us that have been in the hobby for a few years and honestly love it. We enjoy all modes and bands and its hard when we hear someone making a dumbass out of themselves to not stop and make a comment to them. Usually what i hear is why did you waste all that time studying to get a ham license when you want to get on the hambands and act like a dumbass cber. This division will always be there as long as there are those that don't want to fit in and follow the rules. There will always be other hams around that have had it up to the eyeballs with attitudes like i describe above and don't care a bit to be a loudmouth as you say, some call them radio police. One thing is for sure if you get on the bands and act like a dumbass you'll certainly get called down for it. Hams are just like that. They don't want the hambands to become like cb. Thats what all the fuss is about on two meters. Here i had extra class operators new in the hobby wanting to talk on the machines and just use their cb handles. They never would id using their call signs. I had to bring in the fcc to fix the problem here. Just make the license, get on the air and fit in is all thats required. Have a good time while you're at it. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays John WR8D "my two cents":
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by RRSMYTH on December 23, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I don't think anyone with a nocode license should be allowed to say "HI" on the air

It is much like a person who never served in the Marines saying "Semper Fi"
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K4JF on December 25, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"I don't think anyone with a nocode license should be allowed to say "HI" on the air
It is much like a person who never served in the Marines saying "Semper Fi""

That comparison makes no sense at all. They are just as much a ham as you and me, and I'll say hello to them any time I hear them!! >sheesh< Be of good cheer!!
 
Time for Unification  
by N0ORT on December 25, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I am also a "no code tech" but I wonder if code is necessary, some like it,,,some don't, and it seems that there are more of the Older Hams dying off than there is New Hams coming onboard, could this cause FCC to take away some of the lesser used Frequencies in the Amateur Radio bands if they are not used, and wouldn't it be better to increase membership by allowing no-code techs, and generals on at least PART of the HF bands? I DO NOT think we should have the same priviledges as the Hams who know CW and use it regularly, but I have a NICE Yeasu 901D with scanning VFO, and Patch speaker, that has NOT been modified for CB channels, and I regularly LISTEN ONLY, and it is hard to find a QSO going on ! That makes me think about our Frequencies, if we don't use them,,, could we lose them ?
Thank You
73 N0ORT
Steven R. Conroy
NW Missouri
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N0ORT on December 25, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
I am sorry to dis-agree with you sir but, you have done a bad thing by thinking that all ex-CBers are like that, it is the same as profiling, I am what you would call a "No-Code Tech" and that is correct, However, I DO talk on the CB frequencies occationally, and I will NOT be a part of their cursing, and calling people filthy names, I agree that a LOT of that goes on between 26.965 and 27.405 but not ALL of us are a part of these disgusting practices, and I DO have a GREAT amount of RESPECT for those of you who are proficent in CW,,, it is something to be Proud of, and rightfully so, but ME, not knowing CODE, does not mean that I act like some of the persons on CB channels who's vocabulary is extremely limited to words I would not want my Wife or Mother to hear. I intend to leard CODE, and have tried pretty hard for several months, but a reading disability known as dyslexia has hampered my progress, words, letters, and Dits and Dahs are sometimes so jumbled up, it takes a few VERY frustrating minutes to sort it out, but I am determined to get it, it is to bad there is not a method of learning CW that would be easier for persons with my dyslexic problem.

Thank You Sir and 73
N0ORT
Steven R. Conroy
NW Missouri
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by K4JF on December 26, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
"...wouldn't it be better to increase membership by allowing no-code techs, and generals on at least PART of the HF bands?"

Under the proposed rules, Generals (including those who have not been required to pass a code test, whether they are no-code or not) WILL have privileges on all HF bands. All of them. As for Technicians, there is no reason, as Technician is a license designed for VHF and up operating. There is no reason to have HF privileges, as "General" is the license for that.
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N0ORT on December 26, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Sounds as if you classify a Tech+ and Tech Lite in the SAME Class, it means to me that you are saying,"NO one with less than a General Class License should be allowed on HF,,, CODE or NOT, and that is NOT the correct way to think for if you look around,, you will see CHANGE Everywhere, and YOU nor I will EVER stop it!

N0ORT




 
RE: Time for Unification  
by 27185 on December 27, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Jeez, .......The week before Christmas some guy writes an article and actually has the nerve to suggest that maybe Hams should be friendly towards each other!

............And naturally the posts he gets in reply are full of flames and hard times!

I swear, this site can rightfully claim to be home to some of the biggest jerks on the planet!

I particularly love the way some of you use the term "CBer"; .....kinda the same way the White Bigots back in the 1950's used the "N" word!

Do you really want to know what the big difference between Hams and Cbers is?? ....You can see for yourself: Go to any CB site on the web and you'll see people actually talking about their radios, instead of flaming each other.

You idiots should give that a try!

10-4 "Good Buddy"

(....And I'm sure you know what the phrase "Good Buddy" means these days!)

27185
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N9LYA on December 28, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
Well said 27185,,,
So much for Ham Unification...
It was what I expected to see as I scolled down the list of replies..

Good thought to the original poster.. Sorry you were hits by so many idiots in one passing.. Remmeber most Hams spend most of their time on the radio and not on eham or Qrz.. I would be gald to meet you on HF any day for a nice qso.. happy Holidays..

This place is home to some really rude hollier then thou types...

There are a few good hams who stop by from time to time but they are rare...

73 jerry n9lya

 
RE: Time for Unification  
by N3ZKP on December 28, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
<< wouldn't it be better to increase membership by allowing no-code techs, and generals on at least PART of the HF bands?>>

Another case of someone not knowing what they are talking about!

General class hams already have the lion's share of HF frequencies available to them and have had for many, many years.

73,

Lon - N3ZKP
Baltimore, Maryland
 
RE: What? Remove CW so young ones will get interes  
by F5SGI on December 31, 2005 Mail this to a friend!
NN6EE: NCTS complain about everything just like the "FRENCH" do!!!

Who are you to speak about people you ignore ? Should I say that NN6EE is overqualified about the French, just like all American are ?
I believed that ham radio was supposed to unite people around the planet...
Happy New Year, anyway.
Jaen-Marc, F5SGI



 
RE: What? Remove CW so young ones will get interes  
by F5SGI on January 1, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
NN6EE: NCTS complain about everything just like the "FRENCH" do!!!

To clarify a bit my previous post: Does a careful listening of Fox News qualify NN6EE, KC8VWM and company to speak with such a confidence about France and the French ?
I've never read on the French ham forums that the all the Americans are obese or uneducated. Never.
Yes, I think that it is more than time to unite. And to remember some basic principles (friendship, fraternity, loyalty, etc.). W9EEA's Amateur Code (1928) summarizes them very well. I still believe that open-mindedness is the essence itself of ham spirit, and that NN6EE and company are not representative of US hams. At least, those I'm proud of knowing are not like that.
73 de Jean-Marc, F5SGI

 
RE: Time for Unification  
by WR8D on January 2, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
Ref 27.185, When i was a kid back in the late 60's cb was clean and full of nice folks. They had "fests" just like us hams have always had. People would come in from all over the country. It was just a differant branch of "radioing". Now its pure filth. Thats why you guys call us jerks. Most of the cbers want to come to the hambands and not change their ways. Seems to me for the most part many are adults with the mindset of kids. Accept it, if you're one as i describe change your ways. "Grow up" you're just trolling but i can't resist. If you're not a ham which i suspect you're not, you don't even belong on this site and your attitude in your post suggests to me i've hit the nail on the head. Happy New Year! John WR8D
 
RE: Time for Unification  
by WR8D on January 3, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
One other thing 27.185, the company i work for uses cb radios to talk between the equiptment. We have the biggest caterpiller equiptment in the world there at our workplace. Its our misfortune to have to operate our machines and communicate with each other via the cb and also have to listen to the usual cb conversations on the channel we have to stay on. Prostitution, drug sells, their favorite word is the "F" word. You name it and its common to hear it on the cb. My use of the term cb is far worse than those that used the "N" word that you describe. I never realize people could be so degenerate. Thats why so many of us speak up against free upgrades and making it so easy to get a ham license. Sure there are good cbers out there, even christian ones. The crust is just way to thick to find them though. The "filth" rule that roost. My statements are backed by fact that anyone can confirm simply by coming into this area and turning a cb radio on. The local hams have to beat into new upgrades heads that you can't get on the hambands and carry on the way they have for years on cb. Here though its honestly a waste of time. We can't elmer them or help them at all. They refuse to be helped, and want to continue their sad ways of operating exactly like they have for years on cb. Hams can't accept these types into the brotherhood of amateur radio so as far as thats concerned there will always be those like i describe on the outside looking in at us "jerks". My two cents, so much for "chickenband" radio in my area. John WR8D
 
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