Licensed Intruders
Christian Althoff (DG3YCC)
on
April 16, 2006
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Sunday afternoon after a hard day's work I grabbed a beer an sat down in front of my TS 570 to look forward some CW contacts. But... wait a minute! Nearly all over the 40 meters CW portion there where SSB stations calling "CQ Contest!" around frequencies like 7022 or 7025.
The only CW QSO I had this evening was with a station in Great Britain and was abruptly brought to an end by an SSB station 2 kHz up. One CW operator switched to LSB, complained to the SSB man in a friendly way and asked could he please QSY because this was the CW portion of the band. Answer was: "If this is the CW part - why are you calling me on sideband? Idiot!"
Using wrong frequencies is one thing, answering these calls is another. And there were many stations answering! To make my point clear: I'm not talking about "violating" the band edges by one or two KHZ. I'm talking about intruding the whole band part! This comments itself. I don't think "Hams" like these can carry their call sign with pride. Then again, who knows perhaps they got it at eBay...
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Licensed Intruders
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by K0RFD on April 16, 2006
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Different countries have different rules. Where were the callers and responders located?
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Licensed Intruders
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by W3LK on April 16, 2006
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How many times are we going to be subjected to this same nonsense complaint because because a ham is too (insert adjective here) to check the 40m band allocation for where the "offending stations" operate?
73,
Lon - W3LK
Baltimore, Maryland
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by 2E0JHA on April 16, 2006
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I have heard cw stations right the way through 40m quite often. As far as i was aware cw was always at the bottom end of the bands.
Maybe im wrong???
I may open a can of worms here but what the heck its the truth..
The problems are coming on the amateur bands via the cb scene..( here in the uk anyway) 2m is full of idiots locally to me in manchester and half will have tickets.
CB is dying off here and thats because the hardest thing about the m3 is finding the exam centre so all the nuggets are going on the amateur bands.
Their friends are buying cheap and not so cheap radios and basically acting like they are on the cb .
4 words.... " tip of the iceberg"
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by W6TH on April 16, 2006
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.
Put the blame on those that you put in office over and over again.
"Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment." - Benjamin Franklin.
Oh, and for the good old days back in the 30's, just plain old sense and no nonsense.
United we stand, divided we fall.
A very good welcomed post, thanks.
73, W6TH
.:
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by N6AJR on April 16, 2006
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well, if they were from other than ITU sector 2 ( that is the UAS 's allocation) then they have voice privledges on the lower end of 40 m. so they were not out of band, and same as the area below 14.150 which is voice for some, but not us twosies.. so you may have been out of band on voice and they were not. that is why they work split on 40 in contests..
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by HB9MQM on April 16, 2006
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What's all the discussion about? DG2YCC is justifiably upset and not lodging a "nonsense complaint" as W3LK would have it, because the rules are as clear as could be and are not differing from country to country : In IARU Region 1 (Europe, Africa, parts of Asia) 7000 to 7035 kHz is reserved exclusively for CW. The same holds true for Region 2(The Americas). In Region 3 (most of Asia and Oceania) CW is exclusive from 7000 to 7025 kHz with the adjoining segment to 7030 kHz shared with narrow band digital modes. Anybody operating SSB in those band segments is violating the rules the world wide Amateur Radio community has agreed upon through their elected representatives.
BTW: CW is allowed anywhere within the ham bands!
73
Peter
Switzerland
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by THERAGE on April 16, 2006
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^^Sunday afternoon after a hard day's work I grabbed a beer an sat down...^^
How many exactly? :/
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by 2E0JHA on April 16, 2006
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Thanks for clearing that up for me peter, i wasnt being sarcastic with my comment regarding cw being at the lower end of the bands i just wasnt sure.
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by W6TH on April 16, 2006
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.
We post as to Licensed Intruders.
Now what is to be done about it?
Nothing, I assume, just keep on griping.
...To complain naggingly or petulantly; grumble, or
have sharp pains in our bowels.
.:
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by NY7Q on April 16, 2006
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Boys and Girls, CW is allowed anywhere, anytime on all the bands.
SSB is not!!!!
This is the result of dumbing down of license requirements.
It is gonna get worse and the CB mentality permeates
the bands.
It is gonna get worse because folks don't have a true
learning curve license to get EXPERIENCE.
IT IS GONNA GET WORSE, BECAUSE THE AVERAGE NEW
HAM IS STUPID.
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by KA4HWX on April 16, 2006
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Around here we have CBers trasnmitting in what they call the Free band and even way up into the 10 meter band and no one cares.
The FCC will do nothing, the police will do nothing. There is no way to stop them.
And they are not running 5 watts. One guy has a 1000 watt amplier and another has one bigger than that.
Maybe your intruders were operating in their segment of the band by their country's rules, which just might be our cw band. But, next time just stop and be thankful you don't live around here.
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by 2E0JHA on April 16, 2006
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RE NY7Q
The average new ham is not as you put it "stupid" its a case of some new hams may lack knowledge as far as radio goes.
And so what!
Do you know all there is to know on say the topic of dna structuring.. NO! Then arnt you also stupid?
how could you possibly not know?
I have just passed my advanced ticket and by my own admission dont know a great deal as far as radio is concerned. i learned what i had to for the exam,the rest will come with time.
I agree with you re the dumbing down of exams, This is, as far as im concerned because in years gone by amateur radio was kept close to the chests of those in the hobby.
Its a fact that if the powers that be did not dumb down the exam structure and make it easy to get a ticket the airways would be dead in 20 years time along with all the old boys.
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by G0GDU on April 16, 2006
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Whilst some countries may permit the free use of any part of a band for any mode, I am sure that most countries publish a band plan that stipulates which modes should be used in different parts of each band.
2E0JHA is certainly correct in stating that the top of each band is specifically designated for narrow band use i.e. telegraphy (CW) as well as Data modes but I would take exception to his understanding about the UK band plans and suggest that he should be aware that the lower end of most UK frequency bands provides for telegraphy and telephony.
I would refer him and other operators in the UK to the band plans published on the RSGB web site (see
http://www.rsgb.org/bandplans/bandplans.pdf). These band plans are pertinent to all stations in Region 1 and not just the UK.
Band plans do not specifically provide for a contest or any other operator for that matter to use SSB in a portion of a band which is designated for telegraphy.
Whilst band plans may not necessarily be a mandatory requirement within the amateur radio licence, they are drawn up and agreed internationally for teh benifit and guidance of all operators to ensure that each operator causes the minimum interference to their fellow amateurs.
I would guess that some of the posts about contesters using 7.000 to 7.045 for SSB, could well be in reference to the CQ World Wide contest where it common for SSB to be used in any part of the band.
I think 2E0JHA's reference to the 2m band is completely out of context to the point of these posts.
I would also take exception to his attack on all amateurs who were previously CB users. Yes there are some newly licenced operators who show poor operating skills and practice but these are not limited to those who come from a CB background. On occasions I have come across some old hands whose operting leaves a lot to be desired but should know better. I think all experienced operators should be thinking about setting an example to the newcomers to our hobby rather giving them the idea that anything goes.
Has a registered instructor and examiner for the Foundation and Intermediate Licence exams I would suggest that if any such newly licenced operator is found to be operating in an acceptable manner, it is likely to be down to the standard of instruction or due to listening to the poor performance of his peers.
John
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by WY3X on April 16, 2006
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In Canada:
7.035 to 7.050 MHz - Digital Modes
7.040 to 7.050 MHz - International packet
7.050 to 7.100 MHz - SSB
7.100 to 7.120 MHz - Packet within Region 2
7.120 to 7.150 MHz - CW
7.150 to 7.300 MHz - SSB and other wide band modes
In the US:
7.040 High-powered RTTY DX with infighting to keep it
only a QRP CW calling frequency
7.075-7.100 Phone in KH/KL/KP only
7.080-7.100 Data
7.100-7.105 Automatically controlled data stations
7.110 QRP Novice/Technician CW calling frequency
7.171 SSTV
7.285 QRP SSB calling frequency
7.290 AM calling frequency
And you think you have it bad in Europe? The 40M band begs for international realignment and standardization. Who knows when or if it will happen?
-KR4WM
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by K5SET on April 16, 2006
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Your "IT IS GONNA GET WORSE, BECAUSE THE AVERAGE NEW
HAM IS STUPID" comment surely sets you apart from the offenders!
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by W9ZXT on April 16, 2006
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Thank you Christian for the post. I hope other readers will see it and respond with respect. It really is too bad, I hate to see this hobby going in this direction but it is. Respect!! Either you have it or you don't. If you have it it will show, if you don't it will show. Either way, it shows!! God Bless and Happy Easter!
Nick
W9ZXT
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by KE6OUD on April 16, 2006
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To K5SET:
Your "IT IS GONNA GET WORSE, BECAUSE THE AVERAGE NEW
HAM IS STUPID" comment surely sets you apart from the offenders!
(Well spoken)
Amen brother! 73, Charlie KE6OUD
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by K3TJ on April 16, 2006
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Just the other week I worked a very nice guy who proudly told me that he was "a newly minted general" class license holder.
Only problem I saw was, we were in the Extra class portion of the band.
Welcome to the new deregulated ham radio.
73 all, ed
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by KA0GKT on April 16, 2006
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"This forum brought to you by the University of Nebraska-"
Hmmm...More likely Colorado or Colorado State... :D
73 DE KAØGKT/7
--Steve
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Licensed Intruders
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by WA1RNE on April 16, 2006
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Instead of the usual rant and rave about a problem that's been ongoing for the past 25 years, step back for a few minutes and think about what's really going on:
These issues are not the fault of a couple of errant hams who happened to interfere with a guy trying to work CW one evening.....this goes on all the time.
It's not the fault of CB'ers turned ham radio operators....
It's not the fault of the U.S. licensing process and the so-called "dumbing down" of ham radio.....
Although we have the capability of providing emergency communications during disasters, we also seem to pride ourselves on our ability as "CONTESTERS".
We are the "Amateur Radio Service" - at least that's what we're called in the U.S., and at times, that's exactly how we act - as "amateurs".
Instead of the pioneering spirit and exchange of ideas that use to be alive and well on the bands that help to advance the art, the priority seems to be contesting - which is driven primarily by the ARRL and CQ Magazine.
Surely it can be argued that "contesting" sells the latest DSP transceivers for ICOM, Yaesu and Kenwood, keeps all the dealers in business, and probably keeps the ARRL's lights burning, but its pushing amateur radio in the wrong direction.
Our priorities should not be easier Extra Class licensing, securing that vanity call sign and asking manufacturers to build fancier, contest-grade transceivers.
>> Is this direction we want for amateur radio?? Is this what we want to be known for 25 years from now, the best licensed "Radio Amateur Contesters" in the world???
WA1RNE
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by KC2OOS on April 16, 2006
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NY7G said:
"Boys and Girls, CW is allowed anywhere, anytime on all the bands.
SSB is not!!!!
This is the result of dumbing down of license requirements.
It is gonna get worse and the CB mentality permeates
the bands.
It is gonna get worse because folks don't have a true
learning curve license to get EXPERIENCE.
IT IS GONNA GET WORSE, BECAUSE THE AVERAGE NEW
HAM IS STUPID. "
Every Amateur Extra should know that CW is NOT allowed on the 60 Meter band. USB is the only authorized mode on 60M.
I got my ticket last year, but I'm not stupid.
Happy Easter!
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by W6TH on April 16, 2006
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.
There are no stupid people on this earth, just some like to act that way, some can't help it, some for pleasure, I don't know and I don't care as life goes on and on and on.
There is always a lull before the storm and I believe we passed the lull 66 years ago; such as we are now in the storm and will remain so for many years ahead.
I have seen the change much quicker than most.
Grin and bear it as should you live with it, you will become a part of it.
.:
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by WA2JJH on April 16, 2006
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I AGREE WITH W6TH AND NH7Q. SIMPLY CHECK OUT ANY SPECTRUM PLAN FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS OR MORE.
CW AND SSB HF SEGMENTS ARE SHARED!
I remember many times I have had an DX SSB QSO.
QSB and or QRM sets in. I or the DX station switch to CW to complete the QSO! PERIOD!!!!
I can just as easy say....your attitude "SMACKS OF ANTI-SEMITISM"!!!!!!! OR WHAT EVER!!!!!!
LICENSED INTRUDER...MY A--! HOW ABOUT MY A-6 INTRUDER!
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by SWANMAN on April 17, 2006
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Quote: "Boys and Girls, CW is allowed anywhere, anytime on all the bands.
SSB is not!!!!"
I hate it when them CW ops get on the 2-meter machines!
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by DG3YCC on April 17, 2006
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K0RFD asked where the intruders where located. Now in my original posting that was shortened by eham I published several calls most from Europe but also from the US and northern Africa.
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by 2E0JHA on April 17, 2006
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RE G0GDU
I thought my referance to the 2m band was relevant.
There are a lot of posts regarding the bad use and bad operating on the hf bands.
I am by no means slagging newcomers to the hobby , my only point being that to get a ticket now is simple and the lack of having to do any real study to pass the exam means that we have LOTS of people on the amateur bands acting silly. The same as they DO ON CB.
I can almost guarantee that i can go on say 145.650 and within 10 minutes theres someone who wants to swear or make silly noises. I know some of these people and they have tickets, one is a G but no longer uses amateur only to act silly with his friends.
I think that the exam should be harder then the people that want to mess may not bother, for those who have an intrest in amateur radio WILL study .
I use cb regular so im not having ago at "cb ers "
If your going to take the trouble to study then surely you will make the effort to use the bands as they should be.
Band plans cannot be enforced by law but most of us worldwide abide by the bandplans set out for our country.
73 billy
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by WA2JJH on April 17, 2006
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FOR THE RECORD. I find 40M useless. I operate CW only
7.010-7.025mhz. My Extra ticket permits that. I hope most of the trolls KNOW THAT.
I RX only on 7.335mhz for UTC time. The rest of 40M is a waste of 50KW broadcasters and Pirate AM stations.
I go by the book. 15M and 20M, I do go to CW in a MIXED band segment(only when QRMed or QSB). That is the law.
Forget this thread. I agree with A REFERENCE TO 66 years ago.
Think less of Licensed Intruders and more of SINS of your fathers!!! YA YA!
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by WA2JJH on April 17, 2006
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FOR THE RECORD. I find 40M useless. I operate CW only
7.010-7.025mhz. My Extra ticket permits that. I hope most of the trolls KNOW THAT.
I RX only on 7.335mhz for UTC time. The rest of 40M is a waste of 50KW broadcasters and Pirate AM stations.
I go by the book. 15M and 20M, I do go to CW in a MIXED band segment(only when QRMed or QSB). That is the law.
Forget this thread. I agree with A REFERENCE TO 66 years ago.
Think less of Licensed Intruders and more of SINS of your fathers!!! YA YA!
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by RobertKoernerExAE7G on April 17, 2006
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I always assumed the xmitting station knows where his phone sub band starts.
I gather from one of the postings here, no country allows phone below 7.035.
Since this seems to be happening during a contest, have you sent information to the contest organizer?
My belief is that contest organizers do not want to foster SSB where it is NOT allowed.
When I was a Novice, I deeply resented the SSB activity in the 40 meter Novice sub band. I eventually learned that the main land USA 40 meters was not world wide.
Guess the WARC people got it right with most countries only allowing CW on 30 meter, at reduced out put.
73
Bob
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by N8QBY on April 17, 2006
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I still say that contesting, the way it is done, has nothing to do with practicing for possible emergency communications, as they try to push it. There is no way that a 5-10 second signal report is by any strech of the imagination, practicing for radio emergency communications. For the most part, it seems to be about getting a piece of paper for the wall. In MHO, it is way overrated and advertised. It is one of the main reasons I quit subscribing to some of the ham magazines.
As for the "gentleman's agreement" operating practice's, that sometimes leave something to be desired. You know what one bad apple can do.........
73...
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by N8QBY on April 17, 2006
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In the above, in reference to SSB contests. Obviously, other modes take a bit longer, hi
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by N3UMH on April 17, 2006
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Re: Generals in the Extra subband, I think what ham radio needs is not a lament that the licensing requirements are too lax, but a reminder to the offending ham that he or she is out of band.
It's easiest to get caught up in forgetting the subband edges when you're new and excited and you hear a new state or something.
"Hey, you're out of the General band, let's change frequency to 14.229..."
Everyone makes mistakes. The way those mistakes are handled is important for the future of Amateur Radio.
That said, phone contesters in the CW subband are NOT making innocent beginner mistakes.
The only real thing to be done is to not work them if they're below 7.035. If they can't make Q's, they'll move.
Dan,
N3OX
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by W5AOX on April 17, 2006
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Me, I'm curious as to what kind of receiver you were using, antenna, etc, and whether you might have been simply experiencing receiver front end overloading?
The reason I ask is that my own beloved Icom 706MKII-G's have **terrible** strong signal performance. Almost on any HF band will create "offenders" that turn out to be only products of front end overload, sometimes even on my homebrew mobile screwdriver antenna, which does NOT produce that much RF into the receiver.....!
How can I tell if it's an internally generated interference? By:
(1) Making sure the preamp is disabled
(2) Reducing the RF gain
(3) engaging the 20 dB attenuator
If, when reducing the RF gain or engaging the attenuator, the offending signal suddenly drops out while leaving other signals audible, I can safely assume I was just overloading my receiver with too much RF.
Several times I have been tempted to send a "nasty-gram" to someone I've heard every few KHz on 20 meters, for instance, but thankfully thus far I've checked my own equipment first, and found most of the problem inside my own stuff, not some OTHER ham's "stupidity".
Back in 1970, I was newly home from Beautiful Vietnam, with a new license and a newly purchased but used Heathkit HF rig. I was tuning around 20 one evening and found this delightful chap to talk to, and he very kindly asked what license class I was, and I told him. He VERY nicely, again, informed me that we were operating in the Extra portion of 20 meters, and that if I wouldn't mind QSY'ing down to another frequency inside my own license privileges, he would love to continue the conversation.
Very nice and wonderful chap, indeed. If all hams got that sort of treatment for their mistakes and ignorance, we would probably have a lot more civil discussions happening on all our bands, instead of so many getting their licenses here in the USA and dropping out of the hobby after only a few attempts for radio contacts.
Thankfully, I've never made a mistake since..... <snicker>
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by WA3KYY on April 17, 2006
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To our amateur radio colleagues in Region 1 where this complaint originated:
To the rules in your particular country mandate adherence to the Region 1 bandplan or is such compliance voluntary? For those governed by FCC rules, the mode limits are coded into our regulations although there is a proposal to do away with mode based segmentation. For most countries in Region 2, their individual rules permit all modes top to bottom with a recommendation to follow the bandplan but it is not a punishable violation to ignore the bandplan, merely rude and inconsiderate. From reading of comments on HF bandplaning at the last Region 1 Plennary Session, it would seem the bandplan is also not mandatory but only voluntary.
For those who think the US can switch to a voluntary bandplan with no ill effects, the experience in Region 1 that led to the complaints should give pause to reconsider.
73,
Mike WA3KYY
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by W4VR on April 17, 2006
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What the SSB'ers are trying to tell you by operating in that window is that "CW is a disappearing mode of communciations." They are giving you a sample of things to come, that's all there is to it. CW operators have gotten used to this sharing on other bands and they continue operating unscathed..hey, it's not the end of the world.
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Licensed Intruders
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by TG9AKH on April 17, 2006
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Licensed Intruders in 40m? I'm concerned about several megawatt broadcasting stations that refuse to move to another band. Switching to AM and asking them to move somewhere else would not work because they just don't stop transmitting! They think that because they are licensed they don't have to listen, ever! (my ex-wife claims I behaved like a broadcasting station...).
Now for the serious thought and from the perspective of international public policy, the 40m band allocation is as irrational as it gets, aside perhaps from the composition of certain committees of the United Nations that regularly fail to deal with international security issues, as well as the (non?)implementation of the Kyoto agreement. Should we be worried about a little pistol QRMing us during a contest when there are some guys using Weapons of Mass Broadcasting against us every hour of every day? I say we focus on the big picture.
But if you are certain that someone is out of band (relative to where they are operating, of course) make a note of their callsign and report them to the corresponding regulatory authority. Now, if it turns out that in those countries band plans are legally non-enforceable because they remain nothing more than gentleman's agreements, then it cannot be said that those contesters are breaking any rules whatsoever. In fact, in such situation they could argue that whenever a major contest is taking place, the gentlemanly thing to do would be to let contesters get on with their thing while everybody else has got to go somewhere else!
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Licensed Intruders
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by KD5PSH on April 17, 2006
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Frankly, I hear a lot of intruders both ways. WE constantly have "county hunters" using CW on 7.240 mhz as they are too slow to know where they belong (bad fists, as a rule, as well! Maybe they should spend more time practicing cW and forget chasing worthless paper). And yes, I have recently been discouraged from using the CW part of the band by both SSB and digital garbage and it was from HERE in the US.
Contesters seem to have no idea whatever, in regard to band plans.
We've lost something here in the US; no one wants to call a spade a spade. No one wants to judge right and wrong. Osama's judgement seems to be right, he's going to beat you soft, yellow fellows.
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Licensed Intruders
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by KD5PSH on April 17, 2006
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Frankly, I hear a lot of intruders both ways. WE constantly have "county hunters" using CW on 7.240 mhz as they are too slow to know where they belong (bad fists, as a rule, as well! Maybe they should spend more time practicing cW and forget chasing worthless paper). And yes, I have recently been discouraged from using the CW part of the band by both SSB and digital garbage and it was from HERE in the US.
Contesters seem to have no idea whatever, in regard to band plans.
We've lost something here in the US; no one wants to call a spade a spade. No one wants to judge right and wrong. Osama's judgement seems to be right, he's going to beat you soft, yellow fellows.
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by N9XCR on April 17, 2006
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"Just the other week I worked a very nice guy who proudly told me that he was "a newly minted general" class license holder.
Only problem I saw was, we were in the Extra class portion of the band."
lol, I'm sorry, but that is kinda funny. :)
I don't mean to make light of the situation; I really do hope that a solution to the problem of people operating outside of the band portions they're allowed.
I think the best approach would be to (politely) mention to offending stations that they're operating outside of their priveledges, and let them know where they can find a band plan. True, they should already have it, but giving them some guidance would be the best way to approach it. If the individual responds in a negative fashion, as described in the original article, document it and send it in to the FCC. It may even help to have a recording to send in as well.
Chris
N9XCR
Chris
N9XCR
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by K8MHZ on April 17, 2006
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Weapons of Mass Broadcasting
Hilarious!!
Thanks Mario!
73,
Mark K8MHZ
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by VE1IDX on April 17, 2006
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Ever notice how 99.999% of the out of sub-band complaints come from USA amateurs that think everybody has to follow the FCC way of doing things? I was enjoying a QSO one night with a chap in the U.K on 3715 LSB when a W1 informed me via CW that I was out of band.I politely stated that 3715 was in fact INSIDE the 80m band.That just brought a series of VVV VVV VVV's etc for about a minute at which point I asked him to listen very carefully to my call VE1IDX."I am in Canada not the USA and I have phone priviledges ANYWHERE in the band I care to go and that priviledge is afforded to me by MY federal government not yours" I said.He simply tapped out ..-. ..- and left.I never operate SSB really low in the bands but often 3680 and up.I don't think I ever operated lower than that.Just be aware of the country of origin of the "intruders" before acting like a lid yourself.
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Use your good sense.
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by AI2IA on April 17, 2006
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Forty Meters is a band that requires patience, skill, flexibility, and a lot of listening. I keep an Icom IC-R75 loaded with options just for listening. I pick a time for this when I am in the mood, and it's the only device I power up. When you do a lot of listening, you learn where to go and when to go there for QSO contacts. Listening frees you from even thinking about a response to what you hear. You learn to concentrate completely on what is being said by others. You hear it all, the good, the bad, the indifferent, and you hear it uncluttered by what would have been your own responses. You will never get the most out of it with a can of beer in your hand, but then you will never get the most out of two-way communication with a can of beer in your hand, either. You want to be well rested and alert.
Listen often. When you are on the air and encounter misbehavior, twist the knob, move on. Find the good stuff. There is plenty of it out there. Leave the grumps, the flakes, the doomsayers, and all the rest behind. Above all, don't return like for like. This never solves anything. Remember, you are there because you want to make the most of it.
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Licensed Intruders
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by KB3LSR on April 17, 2006
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While it's sad people don't abide by the bandplans, and they need some re-education on HAM etiquitte, the bandplans are "gentlemen's agreements." They aren't breaking laws, as a licensed amateur has the authority to transmit anywhere within the band, with whatever mode. I think you should politely tell the annoying LIDS about the bandplan and they are off frequency for SSB.
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by N1EY on April 17, 2006
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:Boys and Girls, CW is allowed anywhere, anytime on all
:the bands.
:SSB is not!!!!
The FCC enforces the "gentlemen's agreements," which
are the suggested bandplan from the aRRL and general consensus derived over time.
The only place specified in the law for CW was in the VHF+ sections.
bill n1ey
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RE: NY7Q.....
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by G3RZP on April 18, 2006
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This problem keeps arising in contests, and it really boils down to one thing - activity. If the same number of people were ragchewing, the QRM would be just as bad, if not worse. So during the big SSB contests, on 40 especially, we get ad hoc bandplanning changes, which the CW ops don't like.
I don't see an answer. So you say 'organisers, penalise offenders'. No problem! Put your multiplier station on, bootleg the competitions callsign for 5 minutes while operating in the CW end.
'They murmured as they took their fees,
There is no cure for this disease'
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Licensed Intruders
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by G0CVL on April 18, 2006
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Sound Familiar??
"Your 5-9 1078"
again
"Your 5-9 1078"
again
"Your 5-9 1078"
sorry again
"Your 5-9 1078"
again
"Your 5-9 1078
ah ok, QSL 5-5, Your 5-9 210
"No negative 5-5, your 5-9 1078"
Again
Etc etc etc
Yeah really valid radio communications with the accent on experimentation!
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Licensed Intruders
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by N5EAT on April 18, 2006
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Guys - if an American amateur is not a contester - he/she may not know that many Europeans have phone rights at the bottom of the 40 meter band. Lots of them use splits to work DX. Let's give the original
complainer a bit of a break. The first time I heard
lots of SSB at the bottom of 40 I thought it was odd.
As far as beer and radio - the more beer - the better...
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by K4IA on April 18, 2006
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There is a button on your radio labeled N or NAR. Push it.
I have never heard a SSB signal I couldn't work around.
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by W4PA on April 18, 2006
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VE1IDX wrote:
>>Ever notice how 99.999% of the out of sub-band complaints come from USA amateurs that think everybody has to follow the FCC way of doing things? I was enjoying a QSO one night with a chap in the U.K on 3715 LSB when a W1 informed me via CW that I was out of band.<<
To be fair, I think there are just as many or more complainers in Europe about this issue. It reaches a crescendo every year with the CQ WW SSB contest when the whole 40m band gets covered for 2 days with SSB signals.
However...I feel your pain, 'IDX, because the **VERY FIRST DAY** I ever operated SSB on 40 meters below 7.100 from Canada (I'm licensed up there as VY2PA) I got a nastygram via email from a U.S. ham telling me how dare I operate SSB in the CW part of the 40 meter band <<sigh>>. What can you possibly tell people who want everyone to do it 'their' way?
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by DG3YCC on April 18, 2006
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To N5EAT: What european countries do you mean exactly that have phone on the bottom of 40 meters? Bandplan for IARU Region 1, that is Europe, Africa and parts of Asia, says 7000 to 7035 CW. Period.
73 de Chris
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by N8XD on April 18, 2006
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Hi Chris,
Make sure you understand where your band plan chart comes from. If it's a government legal document then violating it means breaking the law. If it's a bandplan recommended by a group of amateurs for cooperation purposes, then to "violate" it is only breaking a recommendation. The IARU is not a government agency of any sort so its bandplans are of the "recommended" variety.
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by G4FSU on April 18, 2006
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During the SSB contests, I use the WARC bands.
Oh god - just realised I've opened up the SSB vs. CW debate.
I'll get my coat....
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by W3LK on April 18, 2006
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<<I'm concerned about several megawatt broadcasting stations that refuse to move to another band. Switching to AM and asking them to move somewhere else would not work because they just don't stop transmitting! They think that because they are licensed they don't have to listen, ever! >>
My Friend, the commercial shortwave stations are licensed for a specific frequency - they DON'T HAVE TO MOVE!!!
As for them stopping to listen - well, they don't have to do that, either. Why should they? According to their government-issued license (issued by their government according to international agreements) it IS their frequency for the hours specified on their license and they don't have to move! That's why they are called BROADCAST stations.
Until these SW allocations are changed by the ITU, you (we) are stuck with them.
I must say that I much more enjoy listening to some of the commercial SW stations in the middle if 40m than I do the blather in the ham allocation.
73,
Lon - W3LK
Baltimore, Maryland
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Licensed Intruders
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by K3TJ on April 18, 2006
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As I posted above "the only problem I saw was he was in the extra portion". As I said, he was a real nice guy, signals were few and far between and, yea we simply QSY'd and I spent ten minutes listening to appologies that I certainly didn't need.
I told the guy, I'm not the FCC. People make mistakes and I sure have made my share of them. I knew I was in the extra portion but I had to look up where the general band ended to QSY. I told him, see we both learned something. Life goes on.
He suffered no loss of dignity and at the end of the QSO he actually thanked me. I'd be willing to bet he will never go "out of band" again.
As was suggested after my post, a polite pointer mostly works. There is never a reason to get angry on the bands. Afterall, its just radio.
Respectfully, Ed k3tj
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by KQ6YV on April 18, 2006
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.This does not surprise me at all, with the dumbing up of the licensing requirements. Folks that have to work hard for something usually respect it. I don't believe it has to with weather or not you are for or against CW, just respect for the band agreement and amateur radio. I do enjoy contests, both SSB and CW, but always stay within the bounds of civility and the band plan.
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by KQ6YV on April 18, 2006
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In the USA, the band plan allows CW on the entire 40 meter band.
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Licensed Intruders
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by VA6EF on April 18, 2006
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Man am I glad that here in Canada we are governed by
bandwidth not mode of operation .. On thirty metres if you can cram it in 1 Khz you can use it on the entire band... anywhere else on the HF bands if you can get into 6Khz you use it on the entire band...enough bickering... Operate according to the rules in your
Country and let others do the same
Ed VA6EF
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by KILOWATT on April 18, 2006
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***RE NY7Q
The average new ham is not as you put it "stupid" its a case of some new hams may lack knowledge as far as radio goes.
And so what!
Do you know all there is to know on say the topic of dna structuring.. NO! Then arnt you also stupid?
how could you possibly not know?***
I think what the man was trying to say was;
Know your craft before you begin practicing. I don't know anything about DNA structuring either but I sure know what modes are allowed in what frequencies. Hence I'm a ham operator! I know my craft.
I've been to a recent test session and watched about 50 morons be handed ham tickets. It was truly disgusting to see. They didn't know what CW was or what an Extra Class license was.
These are idiots.
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by WA2JJH on April 19, 2006
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I guess you really cannot do much with 300KC of band.
In the US that is 40M period. The CW EXTRA portion is great for DX.
Funny, 30 years ago.....I do remember 40M as having a good usable 175 KCS for Novice CW to Advanced SSB.
I was even using the infamouse P.O.S. rig from HELL-EICO. I remembered making tons of CW and SSB contacts
with a simple EICO-753. dRIFTY VFO, crap power supply,alc and agc that emulated fuzzy logic!
Today I have a TS-950SDX that will out perform ICOMS
$12,000 "FERRARI" (the over rated and priced 7800).
The 40M of today is filled with eurotrash psuedo-intellectual poser's that are licensed finger pointers!
PEACE
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by TG9AKH on April 19, 2006
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W3LK wrote:
<<I'm concerned about several megawatt broadcasting stations that refuse to move to another band [...] They think that because they are licensed they don't have to listen, ever! >>
My Friend, the commercial shortwave stations are licensed for a specific frequency - they DON'T HAVE TO MOVE!!!
As for them stopping to listen - well, they don't have to do that, either [...]"
Yes my friend, I agree and I'm sorry that my sense of humour was not totally obvious. The important point is that they ARE "licensed intruders" in the 40m band that do not have to move to another frequency if asked by a ham station and are currently producing substantial QRM in what is mostly the SSB portion of the 40m band.
W3LK wrote:
"Until these SW allocations are changed by the ITU, you (we) are stuck with them."
Again, we are in agreement. Hence my subsequent comment on international public policy (of which "ITU allocations" would be but one aspect). This is, I believe, the "big picture" that we should focus on and I'm glad you are also in agreement with this.
73s,
Mario
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by WY0MN on April 19, 2006
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VE1IDX-Thats so sad! I got into amateur radio, & CW, to avoid the crudities of the "CB" mentality. I had small children @ the time & didn't want their vocabularies maturing prematurely.
I've been off the air for a few years & will have to "toughen up" it seems.
There have been, and will be, changes to the Service that we will not approve of individually & collectively.
I miss the old CW speed requirements, but love my Vanity call.
The world needs more "real" Elmers. People who live near, and possible taught, the newer hams the aesthetics as well as the technical side of radio.
Two of my "Elmers", AD4IA & AD4FL, would not hesitate correct a protege on the air or off. I often heard Randy say, "Give me a landline & I'll tell you what you did wrong, or where to find the rule".
Thanks Elmers.
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by W8JI on April 19, 2006
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I sent an e-mail to CQ magazine about their SSB contests and the LIDS who totally violate IARU bandplans AND FCC rules regarding out of band transmissions.
Perhaps more people should do the same.
In a short period on 40 meters I logged a dozen stations violating IARU plans by operating SSB with emissions below 7040, and USA stations transmitting with primary emissions (LSB) below 7150. USA staions actually used "carrier" or "dial" frequencies below 7153 on LSB, a clear violation of rules when the highest modulating tone is over 3kHz at ANY number of dB down on LSB.
I think this problem comes from four things:
1.) More people today do not understand how a transmitter actually works
2.) Fewer people care about rules
3.) Some people don't understand rules and IARU bandplans
4.) Some people are only controlled by specific detailed laws telling them the limit of how poorly they can behave, and care less about "good behavior" agreements like bandplans.
40 meters is really starting to lose the CW band to the point where people are not now able to operate CW much of the time for the above reasons, both in and NOT in contests. Of course contests make it all much worse.
73 Tom
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by W5HTW on April 19, 2006
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FROM W8JI
2.) Fewer people care about rules
That's the big problem. They are "trained" in CB, and they bring that mentality to ham radio. We have always had a few violators in amateur radio, but they were hard to fine. You had to listen for quite a while to hear one. Now it seems there is a sizable percentage of hams, in the past couple of decades, who feel 'the rules do not apply to me." That is, I think, because they came from a different litter box in which there WERE no rules. The are unwilling to accept that ham radio does have rules, and used to have courtesy and respect, though that is rapidly disappearing.
Not only is it not going to get better, Tom, it isn't even going to hold what it has. The snowball is rolling down the mountain and gathering both speed and debris.
Ed
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Licensed Intruders
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by K8FLY on April 19, 2006
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Narrow filtering & 400 watts , seems to work just fine. i usually find someone to chat with on cw .
and all the ssb qrm rarely is a problem.
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Licensed Intruders
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by W5CMP on April 19, 2006
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Christian sorry to hear about the ssb on the cw band space that just gos to show you that the ham test is to easy.its just going to get worst we need to do something about it.the guys that do this dont know were they the are to begin with.so tell them to get it straight we have to police the bands 73 and good dxing from w5cmp3347@verizon.net
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by W5CMP on April 19, 2006
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extra class think they can do what they want.rules are rules gentlemen agreements have gone to hell in a hand basket.
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Licensed Intruders
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by KB3LSR on April 19, 2006
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Even as a no-code Tech (I did pass the general theory test) I know that the bandplans are NOT LAWS! They are "gentlemen's agreements." I fail to see the connection between radio theory tests and common courtesy. Of course you would want to make Amateur Radio a better service, and not go out of your way to stir up trouble, but what if the person on SSB using the CW portion (which is legal might I ad, but rude to everyone else on the band) accidently bumped the VFO, or something? We are not perfect, accidents happen. I guess if we were all AMATEUR EXTRAS like W1MAN, the HAM community would be better. He was an amateur extra we all strive to be, yet wasn't he an .- ... ... who had CW?
73 de KB3LSR
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by KC0KZA on April 19, 2006
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Why can't folks do what I do - print out a copy of the band plan from www.arrl.org, and stick it on the wall next to my operating station? It's quick and easy, and provides a ready reference for where I can and can't transmit. One page on the wall saves me an awful lot of grief...
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by W8JI on April 19, 2006
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by KB3LSR on April 19, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
Even as a no-code Tech (I did pass the general theory test) I know that the bandplans are NOT LAWS! They are "gentlemen's agreements." I fail to see the connection between radio theory tests and common courtesy. Of course you would want to make Amateur Radio a better service, and not go out of your way to stir up trouble, but what if the person on SSB using the CW portion (which is legal might I ad, but rude to everyone else on the band) accidently bumped the VFO, or something?>>
1.) Actually the law (FCC rules) say we are supposed to use good operating practices. Good operating practices include following IARU guidelines. This is the rule that allows repeater ops to be cited for operating uncordinated repeaters that cause problems.
2.) During the contest, USA ops were out of band. The ones I heard were transmitting on 7150-7152 LSB dial frequency. This is a clear violation of part 97, and it was not a "bump of the dial". DX stations were saying "listening 7150" and people from the USA were calling there.
There are also a number of Generals I've heard operating outside the legal band because they don't understand that it is illegal to have emissions of any level that extend outside the segment authorized for the class and mode.
So this does go back to education, testing, and attitide.
73 Tom
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by WA3KYY on April 19, 2006
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Nothing in the orignal poster's complaint indicated a US amateur was at fault yet many are quick to assume that it was. The station(s) he was complaining about were in all likelihood Europeans who for the most part cannot operate above 7.1MHz on 40M and for which the Region 1 bandplan specifies the SSB region is 7.04-7.10 MHz. The Region 1 bandplan is a voluntary plan that is not enforced by any Region 1 governmental agency as far as I can determine.
Also to correct some other factual errors, no matter what license class you are, if you are a US licensee you cannot operate phone below 7.150MHz except for certain US possessions and a few other exceptions based on geography. No one in the lower 48 states is authorized phone below 7.150 MHz per FCC rule in the 40M band.
Given how small the Region 1 phone band on 40M is, it is surprising there isn't more SSB operation below 7.04 on weekends even when there isn't a world-wide SSB contest running. Hopefully by 2009 when the SW broadcasters are supposed to vacate 7.1-7.2MHz there will be adequate room in the bandplan for phone operations so that even on contest weekends SSB operators won't be forced below 7.04 due to overcrowding.
73,
Mike WA3KYY
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by KB3JZD on April 19, 2006
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He did state where the intruders were from-
"RE: Licensed Intruders Reply
by DG3YCC on April 17, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
K0RFD asked where the intruders where located. Now in my original posting that was shortened by eham I published several calls most from Europe but also from the US and northern Africa."
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by WA9SVD on April 19, 2006
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While there is some overlap of authorized modes in different countries and ITU Regions, particularly on 40 M, there is NO EXCUSE for operators that are not in THEIR allocation or privilege limitation. Even if an operator doesn't commit their privilege boundaries to memory, they SHOULD have some sort of reminder/chart/whatever to indicate where they can, and CANNOT legally operate. While a General, I couldn't operate in the Extra portion of any band, no matter who/what DX was "just out of reach." I didn't have the privilege to operate outside of the General portion of any band. I knew it, and I accepted that. I couldn't legally use some frequencies.
How difficult of a concept is that to understand?
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by WA9SVD on April 19, 2006
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W3LK on April 18, 2006 Mail this to a friend! <<I'm concerned about several megawatt broadcasting stations that refuse to move to another band. Switching to AM and asking them to move somewhere else would not work because they just don't stop transmitting! They think that because they are licensed they don't have to listen, ever! >>
My Friend, the commercial shortwave stations are licensed for a specific frequency - they DON'T HAVE TO MOVE!!!
As for them stopping to listen - well, they don't have to do that, either. Why should they? According to their government-issued license (issued by their government according to international agreements) it IS their frequency for the hours specified on their license and they don't have to move! That's why they are called BROADCAST stations.
Until these SW allocations are changed by the ITU, you (we) are stuck with them.
I must say that I much more enjoy listening to some of the commercial SW stations in the middle if 40m than I do the blather in the ham allocation.
===========
Actually, it's more simple than that. If the broadcast stations are in Region 1 or 3, and licensed to operate there, (at least in the U.S.) Amateurs not only must accept their presence, we MUST NOT cause them interference! And we can't "Get on AM and tell them to get off the frequency." Part 97.303 explains that.
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by G3RZP on April 20, 2006
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As far as I'm aware, there's only the US (I don't know about Canada) where the band plans are mandatory. And only the US where you break the rules if you 'interfere' with a station who isn't supposed to be there, such as an intruder.
In the days of the 'woodpecker' OTH Russian radar, it was quite common to move it by settling on its centre frequency and sending a string of dots from an electronic bug key......
So anybody operating in an amateur band where no other services have an allocation has to put up with QRM from amateurs - even the military when they intrude. The only exception is a station in distress, and stations involved in the distress working.
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by W8JI on April 20, 2006
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It is not against the law to interfere with a station who is "not supposed to be there" in the USA.
Violating bandplans and causing QRM by violating bandplans puts the burden of proof on the violator. If he can't show he had good reason, he's in trouble in any dispute.
All of that is secondary.
As good operators, we should not be pigs and hog up the lower 40kHz of 40 meters just because we won't get arrested. That's true contest or not.
We have to maintain some respect for each other and follow our own operating guidelines. That is really the ONLY thing separating us from Freeband CB.
As a second point, Hams should all know where their transmitters are transmitting. A mistake is one thing, but going out of band to work someone should result in disqualification from any contest. Going out of band is the worse possible rule violation. When a DX station says "listening 7152" and mainland USA stations call there, they are breaking the law by intentionally setting their VFO's to a frequency that puts their voice emissions out of band. We really should expect people to be educated enough to know better.
That's why I wrote to CQ Magazines contest editor and complained.
73 Tom
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by N8CPA on April 20, 2006
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Part 97 is not a compilation of bandplans and agreements. It is US Amateur Radio law.
Any US lids operating where Christian specified were violating 47 CFR Section 97.305 (aka Part 97.305). Whereas CW is authorized on any Amateur frequency except the 60M channels under Part 97, phone emissions are not. That low in the band is not a result of a bumped VFO. On 40M, the lowest limit for a phone signal is 7150KHz, significantly below where the frequency display would indicate on LSB.
Every Amateur in the US should have a copy of Part 97 in his/her station documentation, if only to know the difference between law, bandplans, and "gentlemen's agreements." You can Google Part 97 to find any of several sites where it can be downloaded in various document formats.
Steve
He hath wrought that pounding brass still kicks
.- ... ...
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by WA2JJH on April 20, 2006
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W8JI's comment sums it up very well. It is the law too.
I really cannot deal with 40M anymore. Not worth tuning the antenna over.
I wish 7.335 did not have so many high powered commercial stations around it.
UTC time is very important to me. I re-cal my chronographs by it. I guess I should use a PBS station
instead. I will not buy a Berillium decay standard.
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by K4RAF on April 20, 2006
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Whenever I have run up against any contesters with a complaint of my own, I have been told one of the following:
1) You have the other 5 days a week to yourself
2) Buy a better radio
3) "But I asked if the frequency was in use..."
4) Go !@#$%#! yourself, QRZ contest...
Antisocial attitudes are dynamiting this once great hobby
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Licensed Intruders--Get on AM
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by TG9AKH on April 20, 2006
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<<... AM and asking them to move somewhere else would not work because they just don't stop transmitting! They think that because they are licensed they don't have to listen, ever! >>
...
Until these SW allocations are changed by the ITU, you (we) are stuck with them.
===========
Actually, it's more simple than that. If the broadcast stations are in Region 1 or 3, and licensed to operate there, (at least in the U.S.) Amateurs not only must accept their presence, we MUST NOT cause them interference! And we can't "Get on AM and tell them to get off the frequency." Part 97.303 explains that."
HI HI HI. It's amazing how silly that "get on AM" comment sounds once the second part of the posting went missing... it is true that they don't listen because they are broadcasting and even if they could listen to us, they would be under no obligation to move. All true and frankly speaking, all of them equally irrelevant, petty truths.
Rather than focusing on the silly and the petty we should have focused on the bigger picture... the issue of inconsistent allocations across Regions. That's the intention of the original posting whose second parte went MIA somewhere in the battlefield. Other than for irrational historical reasons, IS THERE ANY RATIONALE FOR HAVING 'REGIONS' AT ALL? That's what's really puzzling... we are dealing with RF spectrum of global reach and then try to "regionalize" the world as if RF is going to respect artificial regional boundaries.
Moving to the somewhat more mundane business of sub-band allocations in amateur RF space, well, since most of the world take IARU band plans to be no more than recommendations that are themselves consistent with the otherwise irrational / worldwide band allocation (yeah, that ridiculous Regions 1, 2 and 3 mantra), then the question is not why is there so much interference today but how come we don't have even more ham-generated interference to ham operations!
There is something wrong with having megawatt "licensed intruders". The fact that broadcast stations in 40m are licensed by some government and that they don't have an obligation to move is, in fact, the point I was trying to raise. They should not have been there in the first place and they WILL have to move in the future.
[BTW, not everybody is subject to 94.303, although I suppose the spirit of that section of US regulations is alive most everywhere one way or another...]
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Licensed Intruders
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by VE1IO on April 21, 2006
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Hi
Looking at things from a Canadian point of view. We have a simple system. We go by max. bandwidth. I can operate whatever mode I want within the max bandwidth. See this http://www.rac.ca/service/allband.htm
The CDN bandplans are at http://www.rac.ca/service/hfband.htm
Here is a note about CDN bandplans... I pretty much follow them...
How the RAC HF Band Plan was developed
The HF Band Plan is a voluntary, gentleman's agreement, intended for the guidance of and observation by Canadian Radio Amateurs. Without these guidelines chaos would set in. The main mode of enforcement is peer pressure.
Industry Canada as a government department regulates the amateur radio spectrum. They regulate the frequencies and the bandwidth, but not the modes of operation within the amateur spectrum. A Band Plan (even though it is voluntary) is necessary for the guidance of the users.
The Canadian HF Band Plan was formulated by a committee of Radio Amateurs representative of a cross section of each geographical district. After a consensus was reached by the committee, the HF Band Plan was submitted to the Board of Directors of Radio Amateurs of Canada for approval.
The Plan was approved on April 22, 1995.
The HF Band Plan reflects the interests of Canadian Radio Amateurs, while taking into account the regional and international concerns of the International Amateur Radio Union. The plan addresses the needs of Canadian Radio Amateurs for a workable HF Band Plan.
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Licensed Intruders
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by AB8WH on April 21, 2006
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I was listening to 40M last night and a very strong Brazilian station was working several contacts within the USA's CW part of the band. I think for Brazil and other S.American and Caribbean countries SSB is legal there. However, like moths drawn to the flame, I heard several US hams make SSB QSO's on this (illegal to them) same frequency.
I am returning to ham radio after 30 years (!)
I don't remember having this problem back in the day.
I DO remember that the bands were AT LEAST as crowded as now (maybe more so).
No point really, I guess...just an observation.
John
AB8WH
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by VE7ALQ on April 21, 2006
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In Canada there is only restriction via bandwidth on the HF bands (including 40 metres). A Canadian amateur can LEGALLY operate SSB anywhere between 7.0 mHz and 7.3 mHz although most amateur abide by the convention that they avoid SSB use below 7.15 mHz I like to call CQ on CW at 7040 kilohertz, as there are lots of people listening, and I can usually get a rely to my "CQ" despite my antenna. We can (and do) remind American amateurs using SSB who wander down into the traditional CW sub-bands, and our brief SSB warning is quite in keeping with Canadian law. The only restriction is 10.1 - 10.150 mHz where we are limited to a bandwidth of 1 kHz (i.e.no SSB)
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Licensed Intruders--USA vs. IARU Region II
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by TG9AKH on April 21, 2006
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Can anybody explain why is it that SSB is not allowed under 7.150kHZ in the continental U.S.? Stations in Canada and Latin America--following the otherwise irrational IARU Region II band plans--are allowed to operate in SSB down to 7.050kHZ. Please note that I do understand that no country has an obligation to enforce IARU band plans. I am asking the reason behind the divergence, not questioning its legitimacy.
After all, U.S. hams represent between 15 and 20 percent of worldwide ham population, and about 80% of hams in Region II. Yet, U.S. hams have less phone privileges (in terms of spectrum allocation) than hams in the rest of Region II. Would the divergence cause incentives for transgression (of U.S. band plans) by U.S. hams?
Could it be that the composite irrationality of IARU Regions I, II and III band plans, together with inconsistent band plans within Region II, are causing havoc in 40m? Bad Regulation = Bad Outcomes, true or false?
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by N2WEC on April 21, 2006
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As a medical professional I feel obligated to make the following observation: NY7Q is a complete idiot with narcisistic tendancies. He also seems to have a problem with his long term memory and logic skills. One who from observation shows he has an extremely low IQ. Freud would say that he had difficulty with toilet training. This is evedenced by the fact he has absolutely no people skills and exercises very poor judgement. It is my medical opinion that he seek professional help from a licensed Psychological professional. He should be tested to discover if he could possibly understand training in having an interpersonal relationship, understand basic logic and or basic people skills. Or should we settle for behavior modification and toilet training.
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by N4VOX on April 21, 2006
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it is very bad for voice to go into the CW portion, but I also get tired of CW coming up where there are many voice stations.
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by WA2JJH on April 21, 2006
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N2WEC....wow! That was deep! I was L.M.A.O. so hard, I blew my right accending colon!
Siggy was out of favor as you know. Actually for a "Coke head", he did create modalities that still "cut the mustard".(IMO)
Back to 40M. It can resemble dopamine induced pathology.
The MEGA-powered broadcasters are like the "ID". They will be with us forever and of course they are licensed NOT TO CHANGE....PERIOD.
The so called licensed intruders are like the "EGO".
The "super-ego" is akin to the treaties and so called gentlemans agreements.
Perhaps B.F. Skinner would impose behavior modification, like making 40M for hams channelised.
Yup, channelised like 60M is.
I guess some practice bipolar behavior on the very
fluid membrain of the band segments and mode limitations.
It did seem that the Novice segments of 40M, 30 years ago were better. I do remember the Novice and coded tech segments were hot. 15M used to be as good as 20M at times.
Yes of course we know the sun spot cycles and other conditions back then. Back then people actually turned CB rigs into decent 10M rigs.
Now many CB rigs just happen to cover 10M too, with 10X(or more) the limit for CB.
This begs the question....If they are not licensed intruders...does that make them unlicensed and welcome?
It would be an interesting double blind experiment to give N.C.T's(no code techs) 40M voice and CW.
It could improve the numbers of hams. It would show conclusively if 5 WPM is the "Riff-Raff filter".
If they can comply better than the very few contesters that DO break the U.S. agreement................Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. What would Siggy say? What would be the DSM-IV GAF(is that axis 5?)
1)Would the N.C.T's comply better to show off the contestors in question?
2)Would the contestors in question try harder to comply? Now that they have to set an example for the N.C.T's?
3)Would "THE SH-T" hit the fan so hard, the blades would slice ham radio to shreds?
4)There would be no difference at all ?
5)SHRIMP COCTAIL!
(: (;
Just my usual "buck. 380" of literary trash.
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by KC9EOT on April 24, 2006
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unfortunately that is not true for canada however their is a rule that applys universally I believe; thats the one about you can not interfere with another station.
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by G3RZP on April 26, 2006
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My understanding of the Radio Regulations is that a station authorised to use a frequency should not be interfered with by a station not so authorised. So if I start to operate on say 14195kHz, and am told that I am interfering with a commercial (or other non-amateur) station e.g military, I am within my rights to tell him to close down and not cause interference to me, regardless of who he is, UNLESS he is a station in distress within the meaning of the Radio Regulations.
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Licensed Intruders
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by K1DA on April 27, 2006
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One thing I really enjoy is working cw dx on 80 and 40 with just 150 watts or so. It keeps the electric bill down and is easier on the other local guys using the cw part of the band, but everything here is sized for 1.5 kw and one switch brings it up. If I have to do that to keep the 30 khz or so we have left for cw dx free of bs contesters so be it. BTW the VE ops are NOT a problem on the low end and those in other areas where ssb is allowed everywhere are not really strong enough to be a problem. There ins't much energy to deal with in a 125 hz slice of a ssb signal no matter how illegal they are.
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by KI4NHB on April 28, 2006
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I may be I new ham and maybe I'm dumb but I ain't stupid. At least not as stupid as some of the more experienced "law abiding" hams that populate the evening zoo on 14.275.
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RE: Licensed Intruders
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by N1LQJ on April 29, 2006
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Confussed, by going to LSB and informing him, you were, yourself violating the law. I suggest looking to copy Call Signs, review what there issueing authority is, and there itu region and privs. then complain to the approperiate source. although, an international orginization to complain to might help in these solutions. They would have the approperate paperwork to file a claim in any country.
Best Regard,
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