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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
Paul Veal (N0AH)
on
May 2, 2006
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
Ever since I got into ham radio, I've had to live most of that time confined on typical sub-division lots. But in trying to bend covenants and peak performance, I have gone through a number of antennas that have exceeded expectations and some that have not. It has been an evolutionary process.
Going back over a decade, my first antenna was the AEA Isoloop covering 10-30 meters. It came with a tuner that moved a large covered LC network to tune the antenna. It was small and easy to hide. Problem was is that it had a huge high Q and was only resonant at a 2.5:1 bandwidth of around 10-20KHz.
It only took a warm day or a bit of rain and your resonant frequency was moved all around the place. I was very satisfied with performance but it was high maintenance. Too much retuning and neighbor RFI complaints gave it a short shelve life. In other words, it was a dud. I think the circular polarization had something to do with it, but who knows. AEA is out of business. So I moved on to the Cushcraft AP8A multi-band vertical covering 10-80 meters.
This was first real antenna that helped me snag stations in EU's morning grayline and I got hooked on the low bands. I took the antenna to Lord Howe Island (VK9LZ) in 1998 during terrible RF conditions yet worked over 2,000 contacts in 6 days. When Cushcraft discontinued the AP8A, I was in disbelief. This antenna proved itself time and time again. For its size and cost, and the fact you could run QRO, this antenna was a real winner.
But after getting complaints in my mail box and taped to my front door, I decided to get a Cushcraft R-7000 including 80 meter kit. It was more expense than the AP8A antenna, but it gave me more of a right to tell my neighbors what I thought about them. We've all been there, right? Too bad the R7000 also had issues with sensitivity to nearby objects. I mounted it 8 feet off the ground per the instructions, but no tomato.
My next try was a dipole ran across my roof. It did every thing but transmit, except into my neighbors big screen system. More neighbor complaints. The dipole ended up in the trash. So finally, I put out the big bucks for a 3 element Hy-gain TH3 Jr. My life changed as I learned about having a BEAM! But it was limited on QRO and only three bands. So I got a Tennadyne T-6 Log Periodic and had it all covering 10-20M. It was a real winner.
I think anyone can see the evolution here. Bigger is better and a Hustler 6BTV made my station complete with the lowbands. Now the neighbors were really upset and stoned my dogs when I was away. They tried to sue me but I had every angle covered. See in the state of Colorado, any covenant broken which last for more than one year, is grandfathered into the property. Case closed.
Now moving ahead 6 years and after my stint in Wyoming with my contest station, I'm back in Denver. Life with noise was awful but at-least I had no local restrictions on antennas. Fearing PRB 1, I had no plans to put a tower, yet anyway. But I put up both a Cushcraft MA5A vertical and a Cushcraft MA5B beam covering 10-20 meters. It was a lot smaller than the T-6 and was only using a tripod mount with 4 guy wires.
The MA5V is ok but it has rotten in a short amount of time exposed to the sun. For a really small lot, running less than 100 watts, it might be a good option however and I wound not rule anything out. It performed very well. But I don't see it lasting long. Mine is almost 4 years old and it looks more like ten.
The MA5B is ok. But it is bipolar. Especially the dipole for 12 and 17 meters. It is a real art to tune the antenna and I have had to do a lot of adjusting over the year I have owned it. It is only 7.3 feet in boom length and the longest element is only 17 feet. So it fits a small rotator. But the profile is awful. You might as well hang out a used car on your roof. This really is a good antenna for a small lot, but it is ugly and two of my neighbor's next store have for sale signs up.
So where am I today? I am planning to remove the MA5B and replace it with a Cushcraft rotating dipole. Most likely the three band D3W covering the WARC bands. I have a Hustler 6BTV for 10, 15, 20, 30, 40 and 80 meters and a dual band array using WX0B equipment and two Cushcraft MA8040 verticals. I also have the AR270 on top of the mast I will use for rotating dipole for 2 meters and 70 cm.
The dipole is not too bad on the neighborhood anxiety. The array is removed for the spring and summer months, and the Hustler is there when I need it.
I was thinking about the R6000 replacing the Hustler 6BTV but we'll see. So there you have it. I cover all the HF bands except 160M, and a lot of the VHF/UHF frequencies. I'm planning to put up an M2 loop for 6 meters some day.
My journey in using small lot antennas has been good, bad and ugly.
Neighbors are the worst. You eliminate 90 percent of their problems, and the remaining 10 percent becomes 100 percent again in their minds.
The good has bee the amazing amount of variety for these types of applications.
The bad has been the money spent on figuring every thing out- Any one with the adventures of using small lot antennas?
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by GM0ONX on May 2, 2006
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I found the MA5B the only mini beam I've owned that actually had a front to back ratio. The ZX yagi 2000 and G4MH were most definately bipolar. I also use a trapped inverted L which gives me 160m to 10m in very little space. Have a look at www.gm0onx.co.uk if you need details.
73
Len GM0ONX
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WIRELESS on May 2, 2006
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In some neighborhoods, when someone does something the neighbors don't like but its legal, they burn your house down or ignore you when you are lying on your front lawn dying.
It pays to try to get along with your neighbors with reasonable antennas instead of totally ignoring them with legal but ugly behemoth antennas.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by K0BG on May 2, 2006
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Well, you could get a Stepper anything and beat what has gone before.
Since most of my operating is mobile, I use a mini-quad as a base antenna. Although it's ugly, and not much more than a rotating dummy load, it works well enough when I need it. I also have a 100 foot dipole driven with an auto coupler. Even though my antennas aren't the best, you use what you have.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by NN8Y on May 2, 2006
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I put up a Gap Titan. I have a small lot, no tall trees, and not enough room even for radials, and wanted lots of bands. I've been very happy with it. I know there are more efficient antennas, etc. etc. but it shoehorned into my situation very well, is not ugly by any means, and I've had no complaints.
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WS4Y on May 2, 2006
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Your comments about neighbors brings back memories
when I lived on a small lot in town. The past two
years I have been enjoying living on this 280 acre
ranch in a KS County with no building codes/inspectors/permits hi hi. No neighbors for a
mile and they could not give a rip. Only problem
Paul is this place is over 40 miles to the nearest
Wally World and XYL does not want to live here....
so we bought a place in town. Spent the last 2 months
fixing it up getting ready to move. The place in town
is on 2.8 acres and I have met the neighbors and don't
think they will be a prob but my ace in the hole is
that we are keeping the ranch and all my antennas up
here including my 130' 160 meter vertical will stay.
It is 35 miles from the place in town to ranch. Hope
I can afford gas and taxes.
73, Bill WS4Y
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KX8N on May 2, 2006
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"It pays to try to get along with your neighbors with reasonable antennas instead of totally ignoring them with legal but ugly behemoth antennas."
That's true. I mean, if you put up a good antenna and interfere with them, that's one thing. However, if you are interfering with them because you are using a piece of crap antenna, that's something else.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by NI0C on May 2, 2006
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I've been pretty lucky using vertical antennas. I suppose it might be different if I put up towers, but I've never tried it. Vertical antennas are really pretty unobtrusive-- most people don't even seem to notice them, especially among tall trees.
I used a HyGain 18AVQ at two homes, with only one inquiry from a neighbor. This neighbor thought I was causing TVI, but later apologized when he found out his home computer was the source of his interference.
Then, operating from a rented town house apartment, I began using hamstick type HF mobile antennas for 40 thru 10 meters, running coax out to the roof of my car on the parking lot behind. Then I used a mag mount to put the hamsticks on a utility transformer box in the backyard (to shorten the coax run and allow me to park in front.) Apparently, the transformer box provided a pretty effective ground plane. Finally, I put up a Cushcraft R-3 antenna just outside my patio door. The maintenance man noticed it, but was sympathetic because he had a good friend who was a ham. I took care of phone interference to my next door neighbor with filters and ferrite beads. In a period of about seven years (which spanned the last sunspot peak), I worked 290 countries running only 100 watts with these antennas from the townhouse.
From my present location in an inner suburban neighborhood with no restrictions, I've operated with a single vertical antenna located at the back of the property as far away from all houses as possible. I started out with an R-7000 mounted on a 12 ft. piece of 2.5 inch galvanized pipe. Although the R-7000 received terrible reviews here on eHam (average rating: 2.7) it worked beautifully for me on all bands, 40 thru 10 meters. After about 6 years, I took it down to make room for an HF-2V to work the lower bands. I also tried the Cushcraft MA8040V vertical for a few months, but didn't like it as well as the HF-2V.
I've had zero complaints in ten years at my present QTH, and only one inquiry from a neighbor who noticed one of my longer radial wires that extended out to my front yard near the property line. I just replied: "Those are for my radio antenna."
I never asked permission from anybody (even at the townhouse) to put up my antennas-- just did it.
73,
Chuck NI0C
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WX1F on May 2, 2006
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As hams, we are at the mercy of neighborhood idiots, too. Late one evening, my wife answered the door to be yelled in the face by an irate neighbor...who wanted me to stop causing the lines and lack of audio on his old tv. My wife quietly pointed to me, lying on the couch with a 104 degree temp and asked how can I be bothering the guy's tv when I was near death. The bozo turned and left, without a "sorry" and we never heard from him again.
The next week I was accused of killing this lady's clothes washer. She was told (by the guy with the crappy tv) that my radio caused her washer to fail. She only believed the police dispatcher (she had CALLED THE POLICE!!) after he explained basic electronics to the witch.
Anyone else top these stories???
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by K8MHZ on May 2, 2006
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I live in a neighborhood with no restrictions other than the fact that we live near an airport and I cannot put up anything higher than the top of the existing tree line.
I use 3 wire antennas for HF (2 regular dipoles and a Bazooka) and have a vertical for VHF-UHF. I also have an AN-99 vertical on the roof for 10 and 17. All the wire antennas are in the back yard. The only thing visible from the front yard is the AN-99 and the Opek VHF-UHF vertical.
So far, absolutely no complaints from neighbors. My next door neighbor, the only one that can even see the dipoles except for us, has me come over and asked me to work on his computers and stuff. He thought the antennas were for SWL and was surprised when I told him I talked to people all over the world with them. He wanted to know if I could build him a TV antenna that would do the same thing!
I could legally put up towers and fly aluminum as high as the trees. This issue is not what you are allowed to do, it is what you SHOULD do. I COULD play my Les Paul through it's little Marshall amp as loud as I want until 10 pm according to the law. SHOULD I? I can also legally have my sprinklers spray into to road onto cars that were just washed (no kidding, I checked into this) without breaking any laws. SHOULD I? I could do 'burn outs' with my Z-28 during the day in my own driveway sans mufflers so long as I do not go on the roadway. There are lots of small kids in our neighborhood. SHOULD I be lighting up my tires just because I found 40 feet of pavement in my own yard where I COULD?
I have two points to make. First, it is possible to work the world with modest antennas at the bottom of the solar cycle. Lofty aluminum structures are not needed. Second, just because we have the law on our side does not mean we should push it to the last letter, especially if it enrages our neighbors.
Having my own self-imposed restrictions has made me hit the books. I build my own wire antennas and need to know how to make them work and not be seen. I have learned much. Sure, I wish I had a place for better antennas, but is it worth moving for? Taking my kid to a different school for? Leaving a neighborhood that has neighbors we know, like and get on well with?
No, indeed it is not.
Perhaps there should be a separate award for working areas with low antennas. We have them for low power, why not low antennas? How about a DXCC<20 (100 countries with an antenna less than 20 feet off the ground) ;)
73,
Mark K8MHZ
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by N1GXC on May 2, 2006
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Hi group. My lot here in Florida is only 115'X150'. I have put up a 30' Universal aluminum tower with a Hy-Gain AV-14AVQ. This has worked out really well for me although my neighbors are not too happy about it. The rear of my property (no restrictions) adjoins a very exclusive gated community with homes starting at a half million. My neighbor to the rear peeked over the wall one day and asked me if that 'thing' was only temporary as his guest's consider it an eyesore. He also stated that "I did'nt invest all this money just to live next to an antenna nut". I smiled, looked him in the eye and told him to get a life.
I also use the W3FF Buddipole system. This small, portable, tripod mounted dipole has allowed me to work just about everything I can hear. It can go up in 10 minutes, covers 40m to 2m and disappears when not needed. The Buddipole is a great solution for deed restricted communities, small lots and keeping peace with the neighbors.
73, Dan
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by K5DVW on May 2, 2006
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K8MHZ>I COULD play my Les Paul through it's little Marshall amp
Does Marshall actually make a 'little amp'? :)
Anyway, I've always lived in HOA restricted areas and I've always had a working HF antenna and always gotten along with the neighbors. I've done this by running the minimum power needed, using vertical antennas mounted behind trees or otherwise obstructed from view, or hidden wire dipoles.
I have plenty of fun this way.
The ONLY problem I've had was on 17m when I was running 600W SSB and coming thru the neighbors baby monitor. She told my wife one day her monitor was possesed after she disconnected it scratching her head. My wife told her it was me and my radio stuff. We had a laugh about it and I fixed the monitor. No more issues. It pays to get along with the neighbors, if they're reasonable.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by N4KZ on May 2, 2006
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I have been on the air 37 years. During that time, I've lived in 14 residences and have been on HF from each one. Along the way, I've had some real "adventures" with neighbors. It's amazing, and sad, about how gullible many people are when it comes to electronics. One neighbor utters some nonsense like, "My toaster is broken and it's the fault of that ham operator down the street," and the next thing you know the whole neighborhood is ready to lynch you based on a total falsehood.
Probably my most memorable experience happened while living in Royal Oak, Mich., in the 1970s. I ran a TS-520, SB-200 amp and a roof-mounted multi-band ground plane. A guy two doors down had a 3-story home and placed his stereo on the ground floor with the speakers on the third floor. And he used non-shielded cable so naturally my SSB signals squawked from his speakers. He began harassing me on the phone by calling up, saying he knew I was operating illegally and would report me to the FCC office in downtown Detroit. Then he'd hang up.
It took me a few calls to begin coaxing information from him. He told me he bought the stereo at Sears and a Sears repairman told him I was running illegal power to cause that interference. I explained I wasn't a CBer, etc. Nothing did any good until I finally told him one day, "Look, hold on while I get the FCC phone number for you. You won't believe me that I'm not doing anything illegal so I WANT you to call the FCC because they will confirm everything I've told you."
I never heard another word out of him.
As for restricted space antennas, it's hard to beat a dipole but often difficult to get it up high enough. I always had good performance from verticals -- either mounted in the air with 4 radials per band or ground mounted with at least 20 or more radials of any convenient length. And the more in the clear the vertical was from any surrounding objects, the better it worked.
73, Dave, N4KZ
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by N0AH on May 2, 2006
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I forgot all about it...I had a Gap Titan as my first antenna here at the new QTH. My XYL asked me to trash it for two reasons. First, the 40M wire at the base of the antena looks like a cloths-line and really could hurt anyone not seeing it.
Second, the mood I was in, in trying to get someone to respond to my CQ.
I think any compromise antenna claiming a range from here to there has to be looked at as not going to the lowest frequency and operating very well in bandwidth, etc......I have found this to be the case on antennas from 10-20M, 10-40M and/or 10-80M.
I think this gets back to the more recent article of what to believe in ham radio ads-
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by K7JQ on May 2, 2006
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the use of a screwdriver -type antenna. I live in a beautiful desert-view subdivision near Phoenix, AZ with strict antenna restrictions, and mounted a High Sierra 10-80 meter screwdriver on a 70'x 5' steel fence, using it as a counterpoise- no other radials. The base tube and coil is 4' and the thin whip is 6'- barely noticable by anyone- neighbors or HOA officials with no complaints or comments. It gives me a 1:1 SWR on all bands at any frequency, don't need a tuner, and with a 600 watt SS amplifier I can pretty much work what I can hear (admittedly huge DX pile-ups are tough to break, but its happened). 90% of the time it out-performs my attic dipoles and gets the 600 watts outside- no RFI here or at the neighbors. Maybe it's not as "efficient" as 25' trapped verticals, but it works and everyone's happy. Give it a try- you might be pleasantly surprised. You can still live in a nice, clean, convenient environment and still enjoy our wonderful hobby.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by W3UTD on May 2, 2006
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I just finished putting out a KJ7U screwdriver antenna as well. It's silver and very low profile, 1:1 SWR everywhere and I can run 600 watts. No more RFI inside the house (I did with 100 watts and the attic antenna) and I can run the amp.
One neighbor came over to see what I was doing (no-one else has even seen it yet), so I mumbled something about emergency HF communications for homeland defense and disasters, and he thanked me(!) for being a Ham Operator and asked how he could be one too.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by N5UV on May 2, 2006
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For almost a year now, I've been using a Hustler 6BTV ground mounted in the center of my small backyard (about 20 x 55), running about 12-14 radials as best as I can around the yard and along the sides of the house. I can't vouch for the GAP ants., but I can say that Hustler's 6BTV works on 10/15/20/30/40/80, as advertised, so long as you put it up the way the instructions state...I've heard claims of going without a ground plane at all using that ant., but I'm sure they get away with that only on a couple of bands. Anyone with just a basic knowledge of vertical antenna theory will already know that there is no free lunch when setting up a multi-band antenna.
So that vertical will work, with a minimal grounding system...but the more radials the better, this is still a work in progress.
And, you can bring the antenna down (with a little elbow grease) without all that DX Engineering stuff, if you need to be low-profile like I do.
CC&Rs are here to stay for the time being, but that shouldn't discourage you from operating HF. When I see violations of CC&Rs by my immediate neighbors (like parking their semis in the driveway), I'm quick to take note...and NOT say anything so long as it's not a permanent fixture of neighborhood. We all have an understanding not to rat on each other about such things, so I have free reign on my antennas so long as they don't stay up 24 hours a day.
The one question I do have for the writer would be: when RFI issues came up, was any effort made to remedy the RFI in cooperation with the neighbors? I would like to think that hams try to help their neighbors out a little more with RFI, rather than be adversarial...but I don't get that feeling sometimes when I read posts on similar topics. I've made it a point to tell my neighbors to contact me if they have RFI issues, so that we can work it out...but they never have, and I guarantee you that I've taken every precaution needed to make sure that it isn't an issue. So whether it's 5 or 500 watts, my neighbors don't know the difference...and never will.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by N5UV on May 2, 2006
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And by "other posts," I really mean other posters, not N0AH specifically...
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by W8KQE on May 2, 2006
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Years ago, when I lived in an 'antenna restricted' area (townhouse/condo unit), I used a GAP 'Eagle DX' vertical mounted on a modified 5 foot mast (with hinge) in a bucket of cement on a dolly. I had a 'fold over' hinge mount, and the antenna would fold over to lay almost flat on the ground when not in use (it has 3 radials, with one side free of radials to allow a full fold over with no obstructions). The condo units were separated by privacy fencing, allowing me to store the antenna horizontally on the ground and raising it in a matter of a minute after sunset! It worked very well on my small back patio, and did not raise any suspicion, being I kept the porch light off when I raised it to operating position. Running just a 100 watt rig, I managed to work DXCC from that location without a problem.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KX8N on May 2, 2006
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"First, the 40M wire at the base of the antena looks like a cloths-line and really could hurt anyone not seeing it. "
Can I cut in and relate something funny? In the apartment I lived in, there was another ham there who faced a factory. Due to visibility, he was only allowed to run a wire from his window down to a fence that separated the property. Somebody DID run into that wire as they were walking along the fence! Unfortunately he had to take the wire down, but still I found it very funny.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by K1DA on May 2, 2006
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What constitutes a "bad" antenna for RFI
purposes? A ground mounted trap vertical with no counterpoise may be an air cooled dummy load radiating
such a weak near field that it is below the level which wpuld cause TVI. Now put in a good counterpoise which wil cause more of the power to be radiated instead of heating the ground and expect RFI complaints to increase in the same way your signal reports will.
I have used a HyGain Hytower for about 30 years (53 feet tall) and recently painted it flat grey. Now it is much harder to see. Thin wire and black cord are good for L's and dipoles, just use a pully and weight
or spring system to control the strain on the wire.
Plexiglass insulators sprayed with "dullcoat" to reduce the shine are also hard to see especially if pulled into the branches a bit. I know of one fellow in Florida who bought an old sailboat to "restore". In his back yard the 45 foot mast makes a great antenna support. I expect it will take him a number of years to finish the job. Interestingly enough restoring a wooden sailboat is socially acceptable in that coastal town whereas radio is a "kook" hobby.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KA3NXN on May 2, 2006
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What ever you do DO NOT get a Carolina Windom. If it don't driver you mad with RFI it will to your neighbors.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WB2WIK on May 2, 2006
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I have a small yard. I've owned 15 homes now, over the years, and most have had small yards (although a couple were 1+ acres). I've always had a tower, or towers, and never had CC&Rs.
I've never had neighbor problems, at least not in the past 25 years. I *did* have neighbor problems once, back in 1973-1976, when I was active on six meters running a kilowatt and my neighbors were using OTARD TV antennas trying to watch a fairly weak Channel 2 signal. At least one neighbor hated me for the TVI. But again, that was back in the days when people tried to receive TV signals with antennas, and not via cable or satellite.
Since cable service has been available (mid-to-late 1970s) and then satellite service, I haven't had a single issue with "neighbors" anywhere I've lived. They don't care about the towers and antennas, but frankly, I always install same in places they can hardly be seen unless you look for them (mature neighborhoods with lots of trees tend to "hide" almost any kind of tower...you have to look way up above the treetops to see antennas, and nobody looks up there).
So, after going through this 15 times, my rules for myself are:
-Never buy a property with restrictive covenants, no matter what those are
-Always buy homes in mature neighborhoods with mature trees
Done!
Nice story, though -- enjoyed it.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by K5LXP on May 2, 2006
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I guess I'll never understand this driving desire to 'keep the neighbors happy'. I, like WIK, have had good neighbor relations everywhere I've lived irrespective of the amount of aluminum in the air. Perhaps if that's the only criteria they have to judge you, you might not be well liked. But being a good neighbor is more than just not doing things that might make them mad, it's by being a *good* neighbor. Like helping out, watching their place while they're away, and just being pleasant. I have yet to have a neighbor ask me if it's OK for them to park their camper in plain sight, what color they should paint their house or if they should plant a garden. That's *their* business, just as stringing wires and aluminum all over my house and yard is *my* business. I think if you have a neighbor that gets upset over that, there is more to the story than just the antennas.
In keeping with the theme of the article, I have had some small yard/lot/apartment antennas. The best luck was had with ground mounted verticals like the 4BTV and Butternut. In situations where there was no yard to plant one, I've always strung a wire from the structure to a distant support as high as I could get it, and load that against a counterpoise using a tuner. RFI was sometimes an issue but I always made sure my own house was clean first before I did any serious operating. Being able to put up resonant, coax-fed antennas is a big step to minimizing RFI/EMI ingress/egress problems, so I always considered antennas with tuners (with radiating feedline) to be a last option.
Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by N0XMZ on May 2, 2006
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When I was hunting for a new apartment about a month ago, I was determined to get one on the top level of the building and it had to have a balcony.
Being on the top floor allows me access to the attic. I'm also on the end of the building so there are no neighbors on one side. The attic didn't have room for my G5RV Jr. but the 2-meter j-pole fits up there nicely.
I bought pairs of Workman mobiles (Hamstick clones) for 75, 40, 20, 15, & 10 meters. I mount 2 antennas back-to-back in a dipole configuration on the balcony. Changing bands requires me to change antennas but that's OK.
From the ground, you only see the "stingers" hanging over the balcony on either side - and you really have to be looking for them. I run 100 watts and get no RFI into the stereo speakers. So far, I've had no complaints from neighbors or management. I'm getting good reports from US stations and I worked Ukraine just yesterday on 20 meters.
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I got rid of my neighbors.
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by WB4M on May 2, 2006
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Next to getting a divorce, moving into a rural area is the best thing I ever did. No neighbors, plenty of acres to string wires, erect towers, run the amp occasionally.
But, years ago, I had the same problems.. irate neighbors, TVI, QRM from the OL. I did have fun experiementing with various antennas.. wires, small yagis, etc. I had best small-lot set up with a TET 3-element tribander and dipoles for lower bands. That is what this hobby is about.. experimenting and doing what works best for you under your present circumstances... making the most of what you have.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KN7T on May 2, 2006
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Someone previously mentioned this - true for me as well, my number one rule is to never buy a home where there are any CC&Rs affecting external antennas and the like. I've never had neighbor relation problems - it's all about personalities and knowing how to deal with them. Fortunately, I live on a cul-de-sac and we all know each other very well so there aren't the usual walls between people that you might experience elsewhere. One of my neighbors has mentioned the occasional RFI problem with their cordless phones and I explained to them why that situation exists and what sorts of things can be done, or not done, to address that situation. They simply chose to purchase a different cordless phone and I've heard no complaints since. My antenna installation is not a thing of beauty - in fact, one could call it downright ugly but no one has made mention of it. I think the neighbors tolerate my penchant for experimenting with antennas and I've showed most of them what ham radio is all about so I think the familiarity helps fend off some of the preconceived notions that folks have about seeing big antennas in the air. In fact, one of my neighbors allowed me to temporarily attach one end of a 160 meter dipole to one of his trees so I could work a contest - how's that for being neighborly?
As far as antennas go, I've always favored the double bazooka design for wire antennas - even on small sized city lots. A random length dipole fed with twinlead can make a very effective antenna as well in that same situation. I've tried some of the verticals mentioned earlier and had mixed success with them - it all depends on how far you can keep them away from other structures. A buddy of mine uses a fan dipole in his attic because of CC&Rs and has had some good success with it so anything is possible.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KA4HWX on May 2, 2006
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It seems that I have lived on small lots most of my life. Only one time did I have the room to put up antennas and the landlord wouldn't allow it.
I remember when we moved from one house on a military base to another house with a bigger backyard. My beam was leaning on the fence that surrounded the yard and this little girl comes over and says my daddy said your radio is messing up our tv. I just laughed out loud and told her to go get her daddy.
He didn't have the guts to come over.
Now, 26 years later, I have a small yard 110 by 50 feet. The tower is on the property line on one side and the other side neighbor's tree hangs over my house. So, I am selling my 5 element beam and will have to stick with a dipole and vertical. Beam won't turn because of trees. Also 18 feet on the longest element would hang over fence over neighbor's yard.
Boy, do I hate small yards.
John
KA4HWX
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Small Back Yard Vertical Antenna
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by AI2IA on May 2, 2006
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I have had my share of back yards, and I have had my share of intrusive neighbors, but neither has ever given me a problem with a vertical antenna. If you are lucky enough to have a tall tree, you can run your vertical up near the tree or even against the tree. You can conceal a vertical antenna in many, many ways.
Vertical antennas are often underestimated in their ability to handle DX. Do your homework on the radials. Ever wonder why commercial stations favor vertical antennas? Sure there are all sorts of reasons for that, but among them are good radiation characteristics and efficiency. They are omnidirectional, so you don't need the rotator and all the rotator gear. Oh! You are going to pick up more noise? Really? Try a vertical. Install it the best way, and see for yourself. Treat yourself to a flag pole while you are at it, two items for the price of one.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by W3TTT on May 2, 2006
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Funny, but I gave up trying to have the "best" antenna long ago. Now, I just want to make contacts. and I don't really care how far away they are.
I am using a few "Zepp" antennas, all thrown over the big tree in the back yard.
Seems to work ok. I am heard ( or not heard) just as well as anyone on the nets that I work.
Be well and I wish you "good contacts".
Joe N3IQA
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KB1MDJ on May 2, 2006
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I live in an apartment on a hill so the front I'm on the second floor and from the back I'm on the fourth floor! In the middle of the city to boot. At first I stuck a B&W AP10B out the back window with the counterpoise out the same window running down the wall and tucked out of the way and someone decided my antenna would work better if they cut the counterpoise wire! So I've since replaced the wire and it runs around the inside of my place, I have a
2 meter 1/4 wave groundplane with a homemade bracket sticking out of the other window, An antron 99 jimmy rigged out on the balcony as well as a homemade 6,2,and 70cm dipole and last but not least a 66' wire running out the window and my YL helped pull it up with a rope as I kept it out of tree branches runs along the wall out side to the balcony and the remainder of wire runs verticaly down a support column so Mr. Happy scissors wont help me out again.
But nobody says any thing when we help with emergancy communications and bike races etc.. etc.. Oh well no good deed goes un punished.
73
Justin KB1MDJ
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by K6AER on May 2, 2006
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Paul,
In all due respect I read your posted bio on QRZ.com and I think your expecting a lot of patience out of your neighbors running a Alpha 99 into a beam at 35 feet in a small lot. If you want to run high power into a beam you need to put the antenna up high and have sufficient land around the antenna system for radiation safety. I bet if you did an exposure calculation you might find you are putting your neighbors as well as your self in jeopardy with the antenna that low to the ground. Most hams who want to run maximum power and antenna gain move to the country with at least 5 acres around their high power antenna system. Even switching to a vertical system will not solve the EMI problem of running high power in a small residential lot. You need to move to a rural area and your neighbor interference problem will go away.
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by N0AH on May 2, 2006
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K6AER:
Please, get a sense of humor-
The only problem I've had running my station at a full 10,000 watts was that I killed my grass and fried my neighbor's cat. I don't see a lot of birds around my house and my deck stain is lifting up off the wood.
Now I am going to get some stuffed french toast at IHOP.
BTW, for the money, I think any of the Hustler 4,5, or 6 BTV's are the best you can do in a small back yard. They are easy to take down by loosening the bottom hose clamp and pulling it off the supporting mast. Then just lay it along the fence.
I did use a 5BTV for CQWW in 2000 without radials in a very soaked earth in northern France. It played great like I was on a beach in the PAC. But I would suggest at least 4 to 8 radials if you can pull it off. If space is limited, like my backyard, use folded radials.
These Hustler antennas just play........
Another antenna that is good for neighbor politics are the Sigma vertical dipoles from Force 12. I have the Sigma 40XK dipole vertical. Huge reports but changing band requires changing of the elements and/or use of coils which can be a pain.
I was working a lot of zones 17, 18 and 19 tonight on 20M. 100 watts. I only use my amp in the morning grayline on 40 and/or 80M. (so relax) Timing is a good thing to think about in using your amp. Also, a lot of the compromise antennas are limited to 300-1,000 watts.
So do you really need the amp on one of these backyard wonders! (yes)
The only damage I have ever incurred running power into any of the antennas mentioned in this forum was a 20M trap for a 5BTV.
As far as wires vs verticals, I feel that a wire is a wire. Junk unless you can get it up in the air. Say what you will about verticals, but for DX, their skywave angle of radiation will at least get over the pond. Stick a wire up in a treee 50+ feet, you'll have some DX, but most nieghbor hoods these days have not been around long enough to have larger trees.
That's why making a decision on an antenna for a small backyard is important. You want an antenna that works without compromising on performance while keeping things at peace in the neighborhood.
I like the screwdriver antenna discussions. I have a Tarheel screw driver on my truck and I have worked all of the world going mobile.
I am glad to see all the responses. I hope that the forum keeps going for those new hams, or hams new to a restricted area, to get some ideas on what to do-
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by NS6Y_ on May 3, 2006
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There's always the "build a huge DDRR antenna for 80m and decorate it like a huge catarpillar" approach.......
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by W2RDD on May 3, 2006
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Some good, sensible comments on antennas in restricted and even non-restricted neighborhoods. Especially interesting reports from kindred apartment dwellers such as myself. I'm presently using an MFJ-1622 window-sill antenna with an MFJ ten-foot telescopic whip. Does surprisingly well with some counterpoises, the MFJ 949E tuner and 60/70-watts CW. A couple of other tenants have seen it sticking out my window and know it is for my "short-wave" radio. No complaints, yet.
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by M0RNA on May 3, 2006
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I live in a small flat in central Bristol and, as you would expect, its a highly populated area which gives little space to put up antennas and a high risk of RFI.
I make do with a centre fed wire dipole/ATU combo for HF, a 2m/70cm colinear on the chimney and a coaxial dipole for 4m. In order to keep the complaints at a minimum, I operate (relatively) QRP HF CW and I am constantly amazed at how far I can get on, say, 10-20w, even during the solar minimum.
I'm moving QTH soon....hopefully to somewhere a bit bigger and less heavily populated....however, I think I'll stick with basic antennas like dipoles as they seem to work pretty well for me (ie cracked a 9M6 pileup a few weeks back without any problems)
73 de Steve M0RNA
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by NS6Y_ on May 3, 2006
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RDD 50-odd watts on CW is a BIG signal. If it's getting out of the antenna into the aether....
I just got an MFJ antenna, not the apartment dweller's special, the other one with the whip that mounts on a flat box, I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but it may be good for stealthy operating, may be better than my kooky dipole in here.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by W2RDD on May 3, 2006
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To M0RNA. I run 20 watts to a MP-1 clamped on a balcony railing at a French apartment QTH. Quite successfully into the UK and rest of Europe. However, at 5 watts, much less so. You really need some decent wire out there, hidden or exposed, at true QRP levels. 73
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by M0RNA on May 3, 2006
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To W2RDD...thanks for the comments. It just goes to show that there are generally always opportunities to get at least _some_ sort of antenna up and make contacts...its just a case of making the best of the situation, and playing it crafty if necessary. 73 es DX de Steve M0RNA :)
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WA7H on May 3, 2006
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You should have stayed in Wyoming! :-)
I live in Wyoming and have a home in Cheyenne with all kinds of antennas in the back yard, but I work in Denver and have an apartment there, I feel your pain. I've tried a number of antenna configurations in my apartment and the best one I've come up with is an end fed 60 foot wire (of course using a tuner with a ballon) winding it's way through the apartment, I'm on the third and top floor. It's not great, but it works ok on 80 and 20 meters, not so hot on 40, but the best part is the neighbors don't see it and start complaining on general principals, RFI or not.
Steve, W7JSC
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by N5UV on May 3, 2006
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Paul, tnx. for chiming in about the Hustler BTV line of ants...you just can't beat that antenna down for it's durability and ease of operation on a small lot, and for half the cost of most commercially-built HF ants.
And you are absolutely right, there is NO problem running QRO with a ground mounted vertical in the backyard, provided the ground plane is decent, you keep children/pets away from it while in use, and take all the necessary RFI protections to prevent issues with the neighbors (good electrical/RF ground, use a low-pass filter, wrap your power cords around toroidial cores, etc.). Wire antennas really don't cut it in comparison.
To K6AER, I would suggest that overhead power lines are a greater long-term exposure threat to mammals than the intermittent 1,500 watt transmissions of an HF antenna in someone's back yard...yet many neighborhoods have those lines running over their houses and you don't see extra limbs growing out of their backs, do you? Besides, all this talk about RF exposure issues will be a moot point as we begin to see nuclear power plants sprout up across the country...
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by NI0C on May 3, 2006
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Paul, it's interesting that you also have the Force 12 Sigma 40XK vertical dipole. I agree that it is a killer DX antenna-- even when set up for 40m. Best of all it doesn't require radials or counterpoise wires of any kind.
Almost anybody would have room for one of these, or at least Force 12's smaller Sigma 5 or GT-5 antennas. The latter aren't much bigger than a screwdriver antenna, and are much more efficient.
My son uses a Sigma 5 in his antenna restricted community-- he trots it out of the garage and sets it up in a couple of minutes when he wants to chase DX.
73,
Chuck NI0C
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KI6LO on May 3, 2006
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Reading through the responses to this post, I find it funny that anyone would every want to buy property in a CC&R or otherwise restricted community REGARDLESS of the status position it might bring. If having a home in an area that is controlled that tightly to keep the 'riff-raff' out and prevent property values from every decreasing is that important, then I would suggest the 'ham owner' do alot of study on mobile operations and be prepared to work mobile for a while. If any neighbor of mine made a comment about my setup being an 'eye-sore' for him or his 'guests', my response would be "I am within my rights to have this and I would hope that you would respect my rights as I respect yours. But if you don't like to look at it, look the other way."
I have been a ham for 31 years and in that time I have worked mainly from apartments and houses with little or no yard space for adequate antennas. I dream of owning hundreds of acres for rhombics and long wires, towers that reach to the skies with more aluminum on top than I can imagine. I have 53 acres in Arkansas but until I retire, I will endeavor in the amateur spirit to maintain the most efficient station using the best antenna configurations I can SAFELY squeeze into my small lot.
I have used multiband verticals (trapped and not), compromise beams (Butternutt HF-5B), full size 2 element quad, wire dipoles, trapped wire dipoles and even mobile Hustler antennas on a 2nd story apartment railing with limited success. Of course some of this was during sunspot cycle maximum and then anything worked as an antenna.
I always try and keep an open communication between myself as a ham and my neighbors. I have had them over to the 'shack' to see what it all was about, even letting them and their kids make a few QSO's. That will definitely lighten up any stress by watching the parents see the excitement that their kids can get from talking to another ham somewhere in the US and the world. A couple of people have even got interested enough to persue their own ticket. I check with my neighbors whenever I add or change anything to ensure that I haven't somehow inadvertently started a new TVI/RFI source. I do not run excessive power, using 100W on all bands. I try to maximize my antennas to help out the equation. Except for a couple of hard core complainers, I have never had any problems. But as the guy once said "You can't please ALL of the people ALL of the time". Ensure you meet the FCC regs and can prove so. Then let the hardcore one's either put up or shut up. The regulations are on your side.
Gene KI6LO
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KC4CP on May 3, 2006
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I live in a community with total covenant antenna restrictions! I told my fellow home owners that I could put a dipole in my attic, and be forced to run high power (in order to make contacts), or erect an outdoor antenna and run lower power (I limit myself to 500 watts). They elected the second option. I have a 40 foot tower, small beam and dipole. Neighbors can be made to see the light!
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KC4CP on May 3, 2006
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I live in a community with total covenant antenna restrictions! I told my fellow home owners that I could put a dipole in my attic, and be forced to run high power (in order to make contacts), or erect an outdoor antenna and run lower power (I limit myself to 500 watts). They elected the second option. I have a 40 foot tower, small beam and dipole. Neighbors can be made to see the light!
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WB2WIK on May 3, 2006
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>Small Back Yard Antenna Politics Reply
by KC4CP on May 3, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
I live in a community with total covenant antenna restrictions! I told my fellow home owners that I could put a dipole in my attic, and be forced to run high power (in order to make contacts), or erect an outdoor antenna and run lower power (I limit myself to 500 watts). They elected the second option. I have a 40 foot tower, small beam and dipole. Neighbors can be made to see the light!<
::You're lucky and that worked out great. Most wouldn't be so lucky, if they have knowledgeable HOAs enforcing CC&Rs because *most* (not all) CC&Rs have "disturbing the peace" provisions that can be enforced even if you use an indoor antenna. Disturbing the peace is typically defined as interfering in any way in the peace and tranquility enjoyed by others in the community, and "interference" of any kind to anything violates the DTP provision and is as enforceable as violating an antenna rule. High power run to an indoor antenna would almost always violate the DTP provision because it would take a miracle to *not* interfere with something on a neighbor's premises...TV, stereo, DVD player, alarm system, smoke detector -- something. So, you definitely lucked out!
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by K4JF on May 3, 2006
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"If having a home in an area that is controlled that tightly to keep the 'riff-raff' out and prevent property values from ever decreasing is that important,..."
Actually, property values increase more slowly in communities with CC&Rs than those without.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KV6O on May 3, 2006
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"Actually, property values increase more slowly in communities with CC&Rs than those without."
I've heard this one before, where/who has the research showing this? I don't disbelieve it, but I am skeptical of unsupported claims that are used to support one’s position. Is there a study that can be referenced? I’d love to be able to point to it when this comes up!
Thanx!
Steve
KV6O
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by K4JF on May 3, 2006
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Steve, the source was quoted on eHam several months ago, but I don't remember the exact one. I think it was a national real estate agents association, which was surprising, given their vested interest in people thinking otherwise.
However, I was referencing it WITHOUT using it to prove a point. I had no point to prove, if you will read the post.
When I built a few years ago, I avoided all CC&Rs, and even had agents get angry with me when I demanded to see the CC&Rs before committing on a purchase.
I now have 2 acres, hilltop, no antenna restrictions just 4 miles out of town. And it's for sale, complete with tower and tribander.
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KK8ZZ on May 3, 2006
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I've run HF very successfully from college dorms (long ago!) and then apartment buildings by using a manual tuner and a simple "long wire" antenna made of #22 "invisible" wire (I used insulated wire to get out the window, of course). Just ground the rig and tuner well to a water pipe or similar in the apartment. In one location with a balcony, I made a heavy cement base (10 gallon bucket) for a 14AVQ vertical and spray painted the whole thing flat black. Added 4 radials draped across the balcony and one over the edge and voila ! HF !
Lately, in a suburban neighborhood, I erected a SteppIR vertical for 40-6 and that's worked great. (Thanks to eHam classifieds for the purchase! ) I bought the DX Engineering radial plate, put down 48 radials (on the ground with landscape pins -- the grass grew over them within a month -- don't bother to try to bury them!). I vote for the backyard vertical as the most likely candidate for suburban success in a small backyard!
de KK8ZZ Solon, Ohio
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WI0T on May 4, 2006
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Interesting thread.
I've lived in 2 subdivisions, the first with CC&Rs, and
my current one without.
In the first subdivisions I started with a
vertical...for awhile. My first complaint was 1 hour
after I put it up (no coax connected). The complaints
never stopped. After a couple of years went to a fan
dipole in the attic of my 2 story house. No problems
for the next 10 years...
In my current subdivision I have no restrictions, but
I still put a ladder line dipole in the attic of my
2 story. No complaints, neighbors aren't aware of
my activities, no problems....
My experience with some of the people in this
subdivision (and it only takes a few) is that
advertising I'm a ham in my subdivision (via an
outside antenna) would be opening up a pandoras box
of trouble.
Someday 50 acres....Until then, playing ham radio with
an indoor dipole works with a minimum of harrassment.
73, Rod
WI0T
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by K8AG on May 4, 2006
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Dark wires, way up in the trees, only work on it when the neighbors are not around to ask questions -- those are my rules for backyard antennas.
I don't have time to troubleshoot claims that my station interferes with their computer or toaster when I am not even home to be on the air. I don't even think they know I am a ham.
Yes, its cowardly. But I have surprisingly few (i.e. none) rfi problems.
Of course if they ask, I would offer to show them the station. But that hasen't happened yet.
My 2 cents.
73, JP, K8AG
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WB2WIK on May 4, 2006
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"My experience with some of the people in this
subdivision (and it only takes a few) is that
advertising I'm a ham in my subdivision (via an
outside antenna) would be opening up a pandoras box
of trouble."
::I have to wonder why anyone would want to live under those conditions. Sounds like making it known you're a ham is equivalent to making it known you're a registered child molester. This is nutty. Hams live in gorgeous, high-end, affluent neighborhoods all over the world, including in America, and don't have these problems. Ted Henry has one of the highest and most visible homes in all of Beverly Hills and you can see his tower and beams for miles, in a neighborhood where the average home is >$5 Million, and it's on a standard suburban lot. So what? Ditto goes for an awful lot of hams I know. WB6ACU doesn't hide that he's a ham, and his tower's the higest thing in a very affluent neighborhood. Big deal. I cannot imagine living in fear that if word slipped out I was doing something I normally do, I'd be shunned in the neighborhood. -WB2WIK/6
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WI0T on May 4, 2006
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WB2WIK Wrote:
":I have to wonder why anyone would want to live under
those conditions. Sounds like making it known you're a
ham is equivalent to making it known you're a
registered child molester. This is nutty."
Simple: close drive to work for myself and the xyl, good school district for the kids.
Most of the neighbors are *probably* just fine. However
I know of a few nut cases in there and I don't need to
find out how nutty they really are. Indeed those I
*think* are fine may not be....Again, why find out ?
Family trumps ham radio. When the kids are gone,
then I'll re-evaluate the situation.
73, Rod
WI0T
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KV6O on May 4, 2006
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I am moving this Summer and am looking to buy a house in Colorado Springs, CO It would seem that properties for sale that already have towers, verticals, etc. would be a great place to start. Does anyone know of a realtor in the COS area that is savvy in the needs of an avid ham? A ham realtor would be great! An internet database of property for sale that is ham friendly would be a great asset…. I could imagine of searches based on tower size or beverage length in addition to number of bedrooms… that would be nice…
Steve
KV6O
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KL7IPV on May 4, 2006
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WX1F,
I moved to Colorado Springs in 1983 from Anchorage. Naturally, I left the tower and antennas in Anchorage. When I got to Colorado Springs I bought a new W-51 and an Explorer 14 beam. I put it all up and the coax was left hanging at the tower base until I got my station going inside the house.
My wife and I went out to dinner on a Friday evening after the tower went up. Later while I was out, an irate neighbor banged on the door and complained that I was eating up their TV. When my daughter took the neighbor to the fence and showed them the coax hanging there, the neighbor left. But the story doesn't end there. The neighbor called again and said I was eating the TV even KNOWING I was not on.
I went to my radio and turned it on and HEARD the offender. He was all over the place and surely eating more than her TV. I went around the neighborhood that night and found a Telrex tower about two blocks away. It turned out the ham ONLY put the tower up at night and used the radio then. He had a bad transceiver and covered everything with it. I found out who it was and called him to tell him what was happening. He pretty much told me to buzz off. I politely told him to fix it, take it of the air or I would let the FCC advise him to what could follow next. He evidently did remove the radio from his use since the complaint never occurred again.
The moral? If someone is absolutely certain YOU are eating a TV, look around. They may be right with the wrong guy. You could be doing yourself and all the neighbors a service if you take a little time and look around.
73,
Frank
KL7IPV
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WB2WIK on May 4, 2006
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>Small Back Yard Antenna Politics Reply
by WI0T on May 4, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
WB2WIK Wrote:
":I have to wonder why anyone would want to live under
those conditions. Sounds like making it known you're a
ham is equivalent to making it known you're a
registered child molester. This is nutty."
Simple: close drive to work for myself and the xyl, good school district for the kids.
Most of the neighbors are *probably* just fine. However
I know of a few nut cases in there and I don't need to
find out how nutty they really are. Indeed those I
*think* are fine may not be....Again, why find out ?
Family trumps ham radio. When the kids are gone,
then I'll re-evaluate the situation.<
::My family trumps ham radio, too. Ham radio's a hobby, but I view it like any other hobby or sport: I play tennis, and wouldn't move to a neighborhood where I can't have a tennis court in my yard if I want to. And in building the court, I wouldn't bother building half a court. To me, ham radio's equivalent is only putting up half an antenna system. In the limited time I have to operate, I want to enjoy it, so I need a tower and some beams or equivalent. I live three miles from my office (5 min commute, one-way, if I catch all the lights), XYL commutes 7 minutes each way on a bad day, the schools are award-winning (our local HS where my kids go placed #2 in the U.S. Academic Decathlon last weekend -- after placing #1 in the country for the previous two years) -- and of course I can put up towers or whatever I want. The neighbors are friendly, everyone likes each other and everyone honks, smiles and waves as you drive by. And this is Los Angeles! Imagine that....
:-)
WB2WIK/6
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by N5YPJ on May 4, 2006
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My former QTH was in town but there were no restrictions or permits needed then.
I recall receiving a rash of complaints from one neighbor at my former QTH regarding TVI right after I put up my tower without consulting him. Funny thing was, he worked days and I worked 4P-12 midnight shift and he complained that I wrecked his reception "all evening". Time changes everything, he sooned tired of whining. THe neat thing was that I had evrything prepped, had my friend from the sign company come with his truck and lift the 40 ft tower onto it's base - about 30 min work. All of this at 10 AM while everyone else was at work.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by AA4UC on May 4, 2006
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I live in the Florida Keys on a small lot and have had excellent results running a full wave 80 meter loop. The loop runs through palm trees and around the house and ranges from 25ft to 8ft high. This antenna is extremely stealthy and is for all practical purposes invisible to the neighbors and the XYL. Even running legal limit I have never noticed any TVI problems and have had zero neighbor complaints. Only problem with this antenna is ensuring that I disconnect and remove the coax feed from the house when not in use due to frequent thunderstorms.
I have previously tried a long wire, multi-band dipoles and a G5RV but all caused major TVI issues. The loop not only has given me the best reports but is great for atmospheric attenuation. I strongly recommend those living in restricted conditions to try the stealthy loop antenna.
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WI0T on May 4, 2006
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WB2WIK/6:
Glad you found such a good situation in LA. Not all
of us are so lucky
73, Rod WI0T
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by W9OY on May 4, 2006
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The only SOP I throw them is to paint the antenna flat black
73 W9OY
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by NS6Y_ on May 4, 2006
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OK time for the funny RFI complaint stories!!
I was sitting here at the computer one night and there was a knock at my door, and a neighbor complained about my radio interfering with his TV, right now. I pointed across the room to the innocent radio, which was not even on. That stopped that discussion!
That's where I learned that any visiable antenna anywhere was going to attract a certain tinfoil-hat clientele. Keep 'em hidden!
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by K7FD on May 4, 2006
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True interference story:
The blonde from 3 doors down came to complain about RFI. I married her 1 month later. She became an Extra Class 2 months later. Case closed.
73 John K7FD
88 Annette N7SG
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KE5RI on May 4, 2006
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Here is a trick I learned many years ago. When you first put up an antenna, whether it be a beam on a tower or a dipole, or anything else, leave the feedline coiled up and tied to the antenna for a few weeks. That way if someone shows up with a complaint you can show them that the antenna is not even connected. That will shut them up and they will never bother you again!
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by AD5X on May 5, 2006
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My next door neighbor came over one Saturday and told me that his alarm system was going off almost daily. When he called the alarm company and they came out, they pointed at my Butternut vertical and said "That's what your problem is." I asked when the alarm system was going off, and was told around 2-3 PM most afternoons. I asked my neighbor if he'd ever considered that I worked every day and was not home in the afternoon. Never heard any more complaints from him.
Phil - AD5X
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by NI0C on May 5, 2006
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John and Annette:
Wonderful story-- congratulations! I think this would be a good time to invest in Force 12, Hy Gain, Glen Martin, Rohn, etc.-- now that your story is out.
73,
Chuck NI0C
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WB2WIK on May 5, 2006
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>Small Back Yard Antenna Politics Reply
by KE5RI on May 4, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
Here is a trick I learned many years ago. When you first put up an antenna, whether it be a beam on a tower or a dipole, or anything else, leave the feedline coiled up and tied to the antenna for a few weeks. That way if someone shows up with a complaint you can show them that the antenna is not even connected. That will shut them up and they will never bother you again!<
::That seems logical, but the idiocy of people never cease to amaze. Back in 1977 I bought a new home and closed escrow, but didn't move in for about 8 weeks while we were replacing carpeting and doing other upgrades. During that time, I dug a hole and installed a tower. No antennas, no feedlines, just a tower. And of course, since we hadn't moved in yet, no equipment, either.
The lady across the street immediately complained next time she saw me that I'd screwed up her TV, washing machine, can opener, water softener and everything else in her home and demanded to know what I was going to do about it.
I got very close to her face and said in very soft, whispering, and very serious voice: "I'm undercover here, and you can't breathe a word of this to anyone. If you do, I can't be responsible for the consequences."
I never heard from her again.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WB2WIK on May 5, 2006
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>Small Back Yard Antenna Politics Reply
by K7FD on May 4, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
True interference story:
The blonde from 3 doors down came to complain about RFI. I married her 1 month later. She became an Extra Class 2 months later. Case closed.
73 John K7FD
88 Annette N7SG<
::Congratulations, that's a great story. But for those of us who are already married, how many more wives are we allowed to take in?
WB2WIK/6
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WB2WIK on May 5, 2006
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>Small Back Yard Antenna Politics Reply
by WI0T on May 4, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
WB2WIK/6:
Glad you found such a good situation in LA. Not all
of us are so lucky
73, Rod WI0T<
::Rod, I like to think of it not as luck, but as skill acquired from having done it so many times! I'm living in my fifteenth house (that I've purchased, to live in) since I bought my first one in 1973, and one definitely picks up a few hints along the way...
73
Steve WB2WIK/6
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WN3VAW on May 5, 2006
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Well Steve, I think that depends on your religious background, but let's not go there...
Another True RFI Story:
When I first moved to the Pittsburgh area, I shared an apartment with N3CLE in Wilkinsburg, adjacent to the Regent Square neighborhood. We strung up a wire antenna of #24 copper enamel... went from the living room (the shack, an HT-37 & SB-301, later an Atlas 110) down the hall, into his bedroom, up the side of the building (3 story apartment), across the attic, down the front of the building, and then finally a few loops on the porch roof outside my (2nd floor) window. Worked pretty well, even when we went QRP with the Atlas, but I digress.
We had one consistent RFI complaint almost from day one from the bimbo, er, lady who lived in the apartment immediately above us. And yes, like so many other complaints, she often complained about our "interference" when both of us were at work. What she was complaining about was interference to her AM/FM/Clock Radio/Telephone, that she bought for about $15 from Montgomery Ward -- yes, an offshore plastic cased POS. Logic didn't work... and we had to listen, her brother worked for the building owners and had rented the apartment to us. Fortunately, HE was reasonable, but still...
One day, the two of them knock on the door and inform us that she had called the Chief Engineer of KDKA-AM, who had told that we were running "illegal" power, should be jailed, etc. & so forth, so HE said we had to shut down or else be reported to the police. Not buying this for a minute, I called KDKA & asked to talk to the Chief at the time. SHE was upset, because no one had called her, and she (being a ham herself, and no, I don't recall the call) would never have said that. She asked that we find out who the neighbor had called so that she could have a chat with them.
I relayed this information to the brother, along with the CE's name, phone number, and offer to provide any technical answers she could. The sister's story then changed that she'd talked to "someone" at KDKA, but wouldn't ID who because she didn't want to get them fired. The brother told me not to worry about any more complaints from his sister after hearing that speech.
We had other problems with the sister (she liked to wake us up after that at 6 AM with radio at full blast) but fortunately for me, that all ended when I got married and moved out.
And as far as I know, most of that antenna is still there (I think Ray clipped the inside portion before he moved out, but everything from his window up was left in place)...
73
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WI0T on May 5, 2006
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WB2WIK/6 wrote:
::Rod, I like to think of it not as luck, but as skill acquired from having done it so many times! I'm living in my fifteenth house (that I've purchased, to live in) since I bought my first one in 1973, and one definitely picks up a few hints along the way...
Well, my second house here. Until the kids are gone
I won't bother moving again. However if a few
people in the subdivsion move out, I'll put up an
antenna I want outside and be fine - there are no
restrictions here against it - but I got tired of
dealing with whack jobs in the other subdivision!
73, Rod
WI0T
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by W2RDD on May 5, 2006
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This has turned into one of the most interesting and non-confrontational topics since I began following the e-ham site. I really think hams are some of the most inventive characters on the planet; epecially when they have to be. I haven't had any complaints in my apartment house...yet. Other tenants do see my MFJ, ten-foot window-sill whip. Probably happy I'm away so frequently that they bite the bullit when I am around.
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by N6CIC on May 5, 2006
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This is a great topic-thanks for posting it. I have not laughed so much since in years at some of the mis-adventures described!
At present I live on a large lot with no deed restrictions and neighbors who only ask-"what is that tall antenna for?" However I did live in a condo with strict HOA restrictions and I tried a variety of wire antennas. The attic was only large enough for a 10-meter dipole, which performed mediocre but not great. I found the best results with a dipole sloper which I hung out the second story window with the lower end attached to a tree. I could sneak it out at dusk, and remove it before going to bed. BTW-I never exceeded 100 watts.
That was before the days of the Buddipoles, Outbackers, and High Sierra antennas. Has anyone tried an Outbacker from a condo?
Great topic. 73s, Scott, N6CIC
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WB2WIK on May 5, 2006
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>Well, my second house here. Until the kids are gone
I won't bother moving again. However if a few
people in the subdivsion move out, I'll put up an
antenna I want outside and be fine - there are no
restrictions here against it - but I got tired of
dealing with whack jobs in the other subdivision!
73, Rod
WI0T<
::Understand that one. I don't mind moving, and have done it many times, even moves within a mile or two. I'm in my fifth house here in L.A., in 17-1/2 years, and never moved more than three miles. Moves were upgrades, or just moving to something we considered more desirable for us. In all cases, within the same school system, so the kids didn't have to change schools unless they wanted to. My "last" move was very much motivated by amateur radio, because although we went from a very large home on a large lot to a smaller home on a smaller lot, we got a better location as a result. Used to be, we were right up against a 3500' hill, at the 1300' level, so I had a 2200' rise behind me. Now, we're at only about 900', but it's "flat" all around us for miles, and we moved 3 miles away from that hill. What a difference! Holy cow, the band just opened in that direction, permanently. Worth the move. Kids didn't mind, they have the same friends and stayed in the same schools. -WB2WIK/6
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by AC9Y on May 5, 2006
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Ture stories of me, my antennas and the neighbors...
I’ve had a ground mounted vertical in my back yard for 5 years. I only run 100 watts SSB/CW but never have had a neighbor complain about anything I was doing, until.... the fellow across the street stopped me in the driveway one day and said he was seeing “lines” on his TV at the same time every night. He is in a wheelchair and home nearly all the time. I’ve always liked the fellow and chatted with him in the past about many things. When I explained I wasn’t on the radio every night, and offered to come over and take a look at his TV interference problem, he declined. He’s still pleasant with me and never asked about it again. He's always got a "grin" on his face when he talks to me... I don't think he believes me.
When I was a Novice back in 1972 running a 35 watt home brew transmitter on 40 meter CW, my neighbor called the power company and told them I was making his lights go on and off! The power company engineer called my house about it. I was 15, but my Dad handed me the phone none the less. I explained to the engineer that I was a ham and what I was doing with what gear. He broke out in laughter. He thanked me and told me to forget it. Still laughing he said “good luck” with ham radio and hung up.
In the late 70’s when I had a 50’ tower with a Yagi on it, a guy down the street suggested that I was the one “sucking up all the TV signals in the neighborhood” with my tower and beam. Yes, he really said this to me. I explained what was likely wrong with his TV, but I don’t think he was buying it. He never said anything else to me again.
When I moved from that house to a new one and began installing a 6’ base for an MA-40 crank-up mask, a neighbor suggested that I was building a “rocket launcher” and was concerned for his safety. Wow, what do you say to that one? This guy was a medical doctor (not my doctor mind you). I explain that I wasn’t testing rock fuel or guidance systems and that I was simply a Ham Radio operator. I did admit to him that I always liked that song “Rocket Man”...
-Roger, AC9Y
Plainfield, Illinois
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WB2WIK on May 5, 2006
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>When I moved from that house to a new one and began installing a 6� base for an MA-40 crank-up mask, a neighbor suggested that I was building a �rocket launcher� and was concerned for his safety. Wow, what do you say to that one? This guy was a medical doctor (not my doctor mind you). I explain that I wasn�t testing rock fuel or guidance systems and that I was simply a Ham Radio operator.<
::Roger, you missed a perfect opportunity to say, "Now that you know anyway, I'll advise you before I do the test launch so you can get yourself and your family out of here."
I'd have been awfully tempted...
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by K0PD on May 6, 2006
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I used to believe ignorance is bliss untill i bacame a Ham radio op. It is just amazing what a antenna or run of wire can do to a neighbors imaginary TV and Telephone problem's. I'll not go into my problem's as there pretty much the norm but will tell about a co-worker of mine years ago when i lived in Phoenix. He was a CB'er and never ran a amp in his life and was really more a listener than a talker. He bought a new home in Scottsdale a suburb of Phoenix and decided that he would go a head and put up his vertical antenna before he got all moved in. Well he did all that on a saturday and the following monday when he started moving his furniture in there in his door were placed 2 or 3 notes from neighbor's complaining his radio was tearing up there Stereo's and TV's.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KL7IPV on May 6, 2006
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Maybe we need a new topic: Stories from hams around the world". That would make for some interesting reading.
Farnk
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by K3DLB on May 6, 2006
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My previous house had a small back yard. I tried a Cushcraft R6000 and was not impressed. I then bought a Gap Titan and was very pleased with the results.
I just recently moved into a townhouse. I have a temporary setup in my attic and it seems to be working okay. I use a Yaesu ATAS 120 antenna in the attic. I went to Home-Depot and bought a sheet of thin metal (4’x 4’). The antenna sits in the middle of the metal sheet on a mag mount. I’m running 100 watts with a Yaesu FT-857 and have had no complaints from the neighbors. I’m planning to replace the ATAS with a High Sierra Sidekick.
Good Luck,
Dave K3DLB
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by AE6RO on May 6, 2006
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One thing I've noticed herein is that nobody builds their own antennas.
Experimentation with antennas makes ham radio more fun and I think a good homebrew antenna can outperform a commercial antenna and be loads cheeper anyway.
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WA2JJH on May 6, 2006
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"Neighbors are the worst. You eliminate 90 percent of their problems, and the remaining 10 percent becomes 100 percent again in their minds."
You hit the nail right on the head there. Much of it is "total psych op's".
I know of people who ask me the dumbest questions about electronic devices causing cancer! Indeed much electronics are used with devices like the MRI,PET, and CAT scanners.
If you told them the real physics behind a MRI,PET,or CAT....They would really be scared much, they would run to alternative/complimentary medicine and will die.
I did study one year of "eastern medicine". Much of it is very good. Let me not get off topic!
I have found the less your more nuerotic neighbors know, the better for you and them!
Many times I am in RX mode. Just listening. I will hear the mobile 1KW minivan come through my stereo!
There is some type of CB club that has the double battery, ultra alternator, 1000W output unfiltered and overmodulated.
I do not go out of my way to let my neighbors know I am a HAM. I am just a poor SWLer, that simply has to get my BBC!
I do tell them about the ""nasty double scum neo-natzi gang-banging mobile radio thugs from hell."" Actually, I am sure most of them are for the most part decent people. They just have no regard for the law when it comes down to RF.
However I tell my more problemic nieghbors to do a Google search on outlaw CB clubs and "keydowns".
I simply do not get RFI complaints. I just put a nice American flag on top of my 24 foot vertical.
Gee perhaps I could run a loop of wire around the flag. Perhaps with a Tuner I can get decent 80M performance.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KB9BVN on May 6, 2006
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With the exception of my Anttron Hamwhips, every HF antenna I have is home made.
I have a great working 40m 1/2 wave dipole in the attic, and I often sit on my back deck running QSO's with my home made fishing pole vertical on 20m...and then there are the numerous thin wire dipoles I take camping. now that I think of it, when I'm working a severe weather net on 2m, I'm using my home brew J-Pole...a lot of the ham guys I hang around with also make their own antennas....now, my attic dipole is no set of stacked beams...BUT I have earned WAS on several ocassions with it...all on 40m of course....but ti tunes up great on 15, 20, 30, and 40...
73 de KB9BVN
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by K4NR on May 6, 2006
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KV6O,
Check out www.homes4hams.com...
73 de Tom, K4NR
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Flat Black Camoflage
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by K7FD on May 7, 2006
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This spring I've decided to downsize. I'm replacing a ten year old 3 el 3 band quad with a mini yagi. After looking at Cushcraft and Mosley, I decided on Mosley's mini 33a. Both antennas are well-built, I just continue to be partial to Mosley antennas, having good luck with them for 40 years now.
In any event, where I live I have a nice back drop of tall dark green firs. After installing antennas and doing a bit of maintenance on the tower, I sprayed the entire system with flat black paint. Now from the road, the antenna, tower, and trees all blend together. It's hard to see unless you are close and focused on it...
As a sidenote, a few of my dx'ing buddies wondered why I would go from a quad 'back' to a yagi...and a mini short-boomed yagi at that! Well, although the quad performance was second to none, it IS a monster antenna. That 3rd dimension can not be experienced until you actually put one up! Quads are big! It made the house dwarf in comparison, and quite frankly, it looked a little silly. Nonetheless, it served me well and I'll look fondly back at those dx memories.
But DX'ing no longer has the appeal it once had and I'm shooting for a simple antenna that will get me heard stateside. That's about all I'm shooting for nowadays. Plus, most of my operating is on CW. You can pretty much get out with a wet noodle pounding a key...
So down came the quad and up went, in this order top to bottom on a (all black) aluminum tower: 2m Larsen 5/8w ground plane at 60', 3 el Cushcraft six meter antenna at 56', and the Mosley mini 33a at 52'...
73 John K7FD
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by K4JF on May 7, 2006
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"KV6O,
Check out www.homes4hams.com...
73 de Tom, K4NR"
Nice idea, Tom. Wish individuals could list homes, mine will be for sale soon. (The button "list a home" does nothing.)
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KG6TT on May 7, 2006
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Probably the worst chapters of my 40+ years as a ham involve irate neighbors... and often irrational ones at that. Once I was physically attacked during a football game. I had recently moved in and my antennas were installed but the equipment still in boxes and NO feedlines attached to the antennas! Still I made a mistake of answering the door to some beer soaked Neanderthal who in about five seconds flat exclaimed that I was ruining the game and punched me out! My amateur history has many neighbor and landlord issues on file. Been there. Done that. Got the T-Shirt!
Up until last September I lived in Albany, CA... the city was supportive of my haming efforts but the neigbor women witches beyond all expectations. I had an MA5B, AV640 Patriot, and a B&W 90' folded dipole.... and a lot of neighbor tension. When I went to replace the MA5B with a real tribander I practically had my life threatened. This one got me a bit depressed I think. Finally it was my wife who recommended that we just move (after fifteen years) and get away from these crazy people.... so the search for our next home began.
We did not look at any house in any community until we had all 'current' rules and regulations regarding antennas well in hand. We had the CC&Rs too! And we told the agents absolutely NO HOA's and the utilities must be underground! As a consequence, except for the size of the lot, we got the perfect home. My wife says it is only temporary and that within 5 years we will have at least 50 to 100 acres in an RF quiet location so I can put up all the antennas I want! Now she is not a ham. Has no interest in amateur radio, but knows it has been my passion since I was eleven years old... a passion that I rarely got to really enjoy.
But for now we have our home in Fairfield, CA. They had PRB-1 on hand and very familiar with its content! For licensed amateurs they allow a single tower that can go up to 75' as long as it can be cranked down to 35' when not in use. It must be rated for the local wind conditions. All antennas have be be clustered together as much as possible and city planners need to review and approve the installation before hand. The entire process took about two hours. There was to be a building permit and fee as well but when I took the approved drawings and tower specs to city engineer he smiled... said "ham tower.... just go ahead a put it up no fee... no inspection"! I said "can you please put that in writing?" :)
The backyard at our new home is not stelar in size (entire lot is 100x80) but did allow for a 35' crank up tower that I already owned (a 75' electric crank up goes up next year). The 35' tower went up towards one side of the back yard and got topped with a nice sized tribander. From that tower I slung off an Alpha Delta DX-B 1/4 wave sloper which not only works great but is only about 60+ feet long so it went across the back yard nicely. I have successfully operated 160 meters for the very first time and put out a good signal on 80, 40, 30 as well. Last weekend I dropped a couple of vertical dipoles for 17 and 12-meters off that tower and now all HF bands are covered. Every vent on the house has a copper J-pole pointing to the heavens (144, 220, and 440). The old chimney sports a 6-meter halo with a 144/440 colinear vertical above it. A few days ago I slung two Elk 2-meter beams off the side of that tower and a 4 wavelength long wire for 6-meters as well! In all cases I am within the regs.... city planners approved every step. Didn't cost anything but planning and some communication skills.
STILL I have had one neighbor visit (during a contest). Among other things he announced that he would have never purchased his home had he knew I was going to be here. I smiled and stated that had I know he was going to be at my front door today I would have added a really nasty, large, scary dog as well! No honestly, I listened to his 'interference issues' (which were the only issues I was concerned about) and responded as to how he can address them. He was uninterested stating that he just wanted me to go away. I indicated the same regarding his presence. I then said that he must keep in mind that my station and its antennas are legal, approved, and operating withing good technical standards. So when he is ready to deal with rather than complain I'll point him to were he can get the info, filters, etc. I smiled and wished him well and added that should there ever be a true emergency I'll still be here to help him and his family as that is what hams are for.
Last week, when I was hanging precariously from the tower putting up those Elk antennas... we was in his yard cleaning his pool. We chatted. I asked if he wanted to assist. He didn't but all was generally ok (for now).
Back Yard Politics!
73,
Jerry, KG6TT, Fairfield, CA
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by NS6Y_ on May 7, 2006
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For the really hard cases, direct 'em to the FCCs new site (yuk, yuk) at http://www.raven1.net they can get help (yuk, yuk) there!
Or, get good at folding little hats out of Reynolds Wrap and just hand 'em out to each new "patient" lol.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WB2WIK on May 8, 2006
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>But for now we have our home in Fairfield, CA. They had PRB-1 on hand and very familiar with its content! For licensed amateurs they allow a single tower that can go up to 75' as long as it can be cranked down to 35' when not in use. It must be rated for the local wind conditions. All antennas have be be clustered together as much as possible and city planners need to review and approve the installation before hand. The entire process took about two hours. There was to be a building permit and fee as well but when I took the approved drawings and tower specs to city engineer he smiled... said "ham tower.... just go ahead a put it up no fee... no inspection"! I said "can you please put that in writing?" :)<
::Congratulations on finding a new place that's ham and antenna-friendly, in Fairfield. Proves once again that there absolutely, positively are such places, everywhere -- one has to know how to look to find them. Fairfield's not in the boonies, it's right off Interstate 80, just northeast of San Francisco, in a very nice area.
::The entire city of Los Angeles, believe it or not, is the same way. Amateur towers are exempt from almost everything, and automatically permitted without any special provisions (except a regular building permit, as for anything else) up to very reasonable and accommodating heights. Pretty nice for a city of 4 million people, especially since more than half the land area is considered "exclusive" and very high-priced.
::Keep up the good work, and thanks for the story!
-WB2WIK/6
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by NT4XT on May 8, 2006
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"The MA5B is ok. But it is bipolar. Especially the dipole for 12 and 17 meters. "
Maybe Lithium or whatever the latest greatest psychogenic will help.
But seriously nice story.
Hey, you have a directional antenna system that's nice. I mentally went thru the what if's- what if I had to choose a low visual impact beam, and due to bandwidth and tuning reasons I bit the bullet and went with a 5 band Hex. In my dreams!
In the mean time I'm stuck with 2 Bipolar perpendicularly hung multi-band wires suspended over the roof hidden from view by surrounding trees! LOL. So life could be worse, being stuck with No Beam ;)
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WX7G on May 8, 2006
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I too have dealt with the CC&R stuff for years. To get around the TVI issue I run QRP, even on 160 meters. For 160M I sometimes run a 40' self-supporting vertical that tilts up on cold winter nights. I have also used the Hustler 5BTV with a top hat. You can obtain a suitable top hat from DX Engineering. While not a big signal antenna, it will put you on 160 and you'll have lots of fun. At my new CC&R house I am going to run a 33' wire in the attic along with one resonant radial per band under the house. The neighbors will be happy and so will I.Sims show it to be great on 40-10, OK on 80 and pretty lame on 160 meters.
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by N0AH on May 8, 2006
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NT4XT:
I have it on a dose of Depakote 2,500 mg, 900 mg of Lithium and 175 mg of Lamictal. Still is whacked-
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KC8TCQ on May 10, 2006
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I myself have never had any problems with neighbors and my antennas. However a friend of mine who is legally blind, moved into a trailer park that decided to have restrictions all of a sudden, some lots were exemted, others were not, including his lot. The new regulations stated no visible antennas.
We tried several things. We mounted a small screwdriver antenna inside his small storage shed, his neighbors saw us setting it up, and turned him in, and they made him remove it (even though it was not visible from outside).
We tried hidding a verticle dipole on his flag pole, they nailed him for that. We even hung a dipole along the side of his trailer and strung christmas lights on it, they nailed him for that too.
So I had an old beater car, I signed the title over to him, we mounted some antennas on the car and parked it in front of his trailer and ran feedline into an antenna selector. The neighbors tried to complain about that but there was no grounds for them to do anything, as the restrictions didn't prohibit antennas mounted on cars. Sure the car never moves, but it has valid plates on it so the police can't have it towed.
Oh and the neighbor who was complaining, they turned him in because they got busted for parking in the spots designated for his lot when they had their parties every weekend, and were trying to get paybacks.
Oh I also forgot to mention that during this whole time we were working on a solution some friends would bring their vehicles over, and park in in front my my friends trailer and sit out there and play radio for a few hours each night, just to drive the point home.
The people at the trailer park were later sued (by someone other than my friend) for their unequal enforcing of the new restrictions, the park owners lost the suit, and the restrictions are no more.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KB9CRY on May 11, 2006
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When I lived on a city lot, I had a neighbor bang on my door. He said that my radio was interfering with his TV last night. I asked him when did this happen and what channel was he watching. He replied that it happened at 2 in the morning while he was watching VHS videos. (Porn I'm sure!) I told him that he should be sleeping at that hour. (I had been on 80M at the time and always ran QRO at that time period as part of my self-imposed power restrictions (no amp during prime time).
He then stated that he new that I was running a "kicker". I knew what he meant but played dumb and asked What's a kicker? "A kicker amp, I used to have one when I was a CBer and they're illegal!" He also stated, "I going to report you to the FCC." I told him that I'd be happy to suggest some filters that he could purchase to help his problem and also stated "And when you talk to the FCC, tell them I said hello, since they're the ones who gave me my license to operate my radio!"
That night I dropped my self-imposed power restrictions. And a few years later moved to large acreage in unincorporated part of the county. Never heard boo about any other interference with this neighbor even though we exhanged pleasantries all the time.
Phil
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WA2JJH on May 11, 2006
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The MAO inhibitors are the worst of the psychotheraputics. What the kids get their hands on these days are far worse. I was going to suggest you give your "tin foil hat crazy" nieghbors, a Demerol Knish. However putting controlled substances in food, is a real "federal case"
Here is one from my youth(pronounced YUT in NYC)
I did not even have my antenna up on the roof. Great location. 150 feet above sea level.
Got a fresh roll of premium RG-8/U for the 100 foot run. I went up to the roof. I started to drop the cable down to my shack on the 6th floor.
Just as I am dropping the cable, a nasty old lady said...."If that cable comes near my window, I will cut it with a razor blade. I told her nicely, that is against the law.
Had some great DX. I guess the would be razor blade lady, checked out my claim.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by K3DWW on May 11, 2006
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Can't top them but when I had the misfortune to live in a townhouse a neighbor caught me outside and began berating me for TVI. All the while he was shouting, his 6 year old was tugging his pant leg for attention. Finally, still in rant mode, he turned on her. "whadda you want!" She reminded him that mama's hair drier had proved to be the culprit. He didn't apologize either. Perhaps too embarassed.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by W7LV on May 11, 2006
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I built a new home in 1976 on a lakefront lot in SW Florida, complete with a Rohn 58 foot fold-over. Life was good for about 5 years (no neighbors for 1,000 feet) until My Favorite Moron built on the vacant lot next door.
Despite being a commercial electrician, he couldn't make his TV play worth a hoot. Said his father-in-law, who used to repair TV's in the 1950's told him that my tower and CL-33 were, "sucking all the signal out of the air."
I told the idiot to go get an electrical engineer and a lawyer and sue me...double or nothing, Loser Pays...When do you want to START? AND reminded him that that tower had a Permit (with a stamp on the foundation drawing), unlike the bootleg Rental Unit he had had built into his house in violation of the Zoning.
His kids continued to pee off my seawall and his trailer trash in-laws continued to tear up my Floratam sod with their weekly Garage Sales, but that was the last I heard about his TV.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by WN2RUJ on May 17, 2006
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When I got back on HF after a 29 year absence I was living in my first house. While my neighbor was in Florida for the winter I put up a G5RV Jr. between my chimmney and an abandoned clothesline pole. The antenna was directly above a chainlink fence dividing our properties at 25 feet high. When my neighbor came home he asked about the antenna. He then started telling me how I could do it better by getting the other end in the trees. I plan to get dipole up to 40' this summer and possible add a vertical.
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KY6R on May 18, 2006
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I once had a neighbor who told me he was a psychic (even tested at his high school when he was a kid).
This was his introduction to me when I first moved in.
He then went on to say that he had spotted his neighbor having parties where "black magic" was practiced. He told me that a mountain lion came specifically to his house often because it (the mountain lion) knew that he (my neighbor) was a friendly, gentle soul. He said the mountain lion specifically avoided the other neighbors house.
I made sure that my vertical was around the corner and out of his eyesight. Luckily, he didn't come around snooping, and his yard and my yard was separated by his _very_ overgrown lot. In fact, his windows were covered by all kinds of vines and other fast growing plants. He always kept to himself after his introduction.
I was saved by living in an old neighborhood with lots of trees - and quite a few redwoods. I also made sure that I didn't wear my purple cone shaped hat and robe with stars and crescent moons on it.
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Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by KY6R on May 18, 2006
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Oh - two more little wacky stories about neighbors and ham radio.
When I was a 13 year old novice in Newton, NJ, my neighbor (who was stoned) knocked on my door asking me if I was sending morse code. I said yes, and started apologizing profusely, when he stopped me and said "no man", I really dig it - I'm hearing it in my stereo while listening to the "2001, a Space Oddysey" soundtrack on vinyl.
At my last house, while I was out in my field tending to a vertical, a father and son came up to the barbed wire fence and said "hello". I thought (oh no, even secluded on 5 acres I've got trouble).
They introduced themselves as hams who were visiting their relatives next door and down the hill. They wanted to know what antennas I had and wanted a tour of my shack.
Then I realized why the night before my receiver almost jumped off the desk. The son had camped out in my neighbors back yard after throwing a dipole up in my neighbors tree, and I had a QSO with him. I wondered who in Lafayette, CA still used CW (there were only a few hams in town who still used CW - most were EMCOMM guys). Our antennas were about 100 feet apart!
Other than that - absolutely no issues in over 30 years of hamming. Knock on wood.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by M0HEM on May 19, 2006
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The W3EDP wire antenna is a favourite with QRP operators and is capable of delivering excellent results. It is the antenna that the M1RAL station used to qualify for the QRP ARCI "1000 Miles Per Watt" Award following a 5W SSB contact with JA9SCB in Japan, as well as QSOs with stations as far away as the United States, Puerto Rico, Brazil, Cape Verde, Ascension Island, Madeira Island, Kuwait, Kazakhstan and Kyrghyzstan, again with just 5W SSB.
The antenna consists of a single 84ft radiating element and counterpoise as follows:
3.5 & 7.0MHz - 17ft
14MHz - 6.5ft
28MHz - none
The W3EDP antenna is easy to construct (just measure the wire and cut!) and is equally at home in the field or used from the home QTH.
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RE: Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
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by AE6RO on May 20, 2006
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Maybe the Mountain Lion had been a ham in a former life ;-)
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