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Ham Radio Blackout
Manos Manoli (5B4AFQ)
on
August 10, 2006
View comments about this article!
22:30 : I have received a call from a fellow radio amateur ( 5B4aez ) to check out some interference on the VHF bands. It was to my surprise that an S9 carrier signal was flooding the entire band. He had the same on his radio ( Marinos is approximately 5klm down the road from me and our 5w VhF signals were barely overpowering the “alien signal “ making VHF communications difficult. I rushed to the spectrum analyzer to investigate what was the span of this mess, responsible for blocking local communications. The APRS digipeaters could not be heart , local repeaters where not functioning basically everything was dead.
I went to the phone trying to contact another radio amateur 20klm away , while my finger at the same was reaching the on/off button of the analyzer. I spilled my coffee all over keyboard once I saw that the “ alien's” where flooding 134-150mhz . It was like I was next to a broadcasting antenna …. The guy over the phone reported extraordinary carriers that were messing his radio ,,, he is 20klm away from me …… The interference pattern was also strange ,, peaking at s9+60 every 300khz dropping gradually to S4 in the frequencies between. Was this the site effects of warfare jamming coming from the nearby crisis zone ?
23:46 Interference disappears suddenly like someone has pulled out the antenna plug of the analyzer… It was a boring night as comms and aprs were suddenly not there to keep me busy , Went to bed somehow puzzled , the analyzer image was somehow still glowing in front of my eyes.
2:00am : Cell phone rings … it is a 5B4 guy that I haven't heart form months ….
15klm away from me …. .“Manos sorry to bother you at this time ……. There is something killing my vhf radios…….
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by NS6Y_ on August 10, 2006
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Glad you asked!!
www.raven1.net has all the info's you need on this!
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by VE3MFN on August 10, 2006
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www.raven1.net
Yes! Aren't some of her claims amazing! I dont know whether to laugh or cry........If only 10% of her site is based on some reality, we are indeed in serious trouble........As for Manos' problem, keep listening and looking for your QRM Manos. These days who knows what it might be........
--... ...--
Richard VE3MFN
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by 5B4AFQ on August 10, 2006
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Im located In Cyprus few hundred klm away from Libanon the word "alien, "alien signals ofcourse were
used metaforicaly " the word warefare was not used medaforicaly, anyone experiencing anything similar
could the signals be coming from AWACS or EW SHips during an op ?
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K8MHZ on August 10, 2006
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This looks like a job for RDF.
Here is a hint, if the signal gets so strong it pegs the meter on the back side of a Yagi, listen for the 3rd harmonic. If you can hear it you will have a better chance of locating the signal.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by KC0PCQ on August 10, 2006
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It isn't going to be AWACS. They have no jammers and the radar operates in the S-Band. The only other equipment they have are the normal assortment of HF/VHF/UHF radios. They don't have anything that I would think could cause such broadbanded jamming.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by N9VO on August 10, 2006
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raven1.net
What's really scary is that anyone would believe any of that. Conspiracy buffs in all their glory. Psssst, they're watching you!
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by KC8VWM on August 10, 2006
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A possible solution for VHF ham radio blackouts?
http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by WA2JJH on August 10, 2006
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The EA-6 prowler can do that. The high power and high altitudes can jam out everything.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by KG6AMW on August 10, 2006
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Conspiracies are designed for people who lack critical thinking skills or who lack common sense. It should be viewed as prepackaged logic which is always forces out common sense. It’s even more embarrassing when certain facts become stale dated and the user continues to use the prepackaged logic. A variation of this problem involves people who “carry baggage” about certain things such as BPL and the ARRL. While not a form of conspiracy theory illness, it is embarrassing to watch because the person has become infatuated about something and makes a public spectacle of it.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 10, 2006
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Is there anything on the Raven site that specifically addresses shortwave jamming?
As far as conspiracies go, if there weren't any the word would not exist.
I suppose you believe Marilyn Monroe offed herself.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by KO1D on August 10, 2006
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Given how close he is to the fighting in Beruit I'd probably second that its an aircraft missile jamming system. If news reports are accurate sounds like you can walk from Cyprus to Tyre on the decks of all the military ships deployed there right now.
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by WA1RNE on August 10, 2006
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There are several schemes used by the military to prevent potentially hostile voice and data communications.
Here's a couple of possibilites. Some are highly mobile and run >1 KW output:
A 20-500 Mhz jammer:
http://www.iritel.com/iritel/latinica/proizvodi/radio%20komunikacije/pdf/VHF_%20UHF_%20J-e.pdf
RACJAM:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/an-ulq-19.htm
http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/camouflage/enterprise/
WA1RNE
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by W9WHE-II on August 10, 2006
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Its all a plot by the Bush administration to prop up its poll numbers. They are creating a chrissis to distract the world from other issues.
Hey. It must be true, I read it in the NY Times!
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W4VR on August 10, 2006
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Interesting story. I think you should write a book about your experiences and observations!
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by WA2JJH on August 10, 2006
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Israel has ultra high tech. The spy drone craft is proof of that.
It would be a good guess they are using sweep generators hooked up to HPA's(high power amps).
So jamming either land mobile or a modifed Fighter jet is what your hearing. It makes sense.
EW/ECW/ECCM is one of many industries that Isreal excels at.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K2GW on August 10, 2006
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I think folks are confusing AWACS with ECM.
See http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/ec-130e.htm for USAF Compass Call battlefield jamming capabilites. Israel probably could easily do the same.
Ham equipment is routinely used in and near the 2 meter band by guerillas, drug cartels. etc in the third world because the equipment is cheap and ubiquitous.
Israel might be using countermeasures against Hezbollah from altitude and you just might be hearing it.
73
Gary, K2GW
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by LNXAUTHOR on August 10, 2006
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- i'd like to know what the heck was going on on 20M this morning... (lots of BCB around 14.260!)
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by G0GQK on August 10, 2006
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Now here's an idea ! Get out your World Atlas and have a look and find Cyprus. Got it ? It's in the Mediterrean Sea, and its not far from Israel and Lebanon. The British military have been stationed on the island for many years and the place is a mass of radio antennas of one sort or another.
What are they doing there ? They are intercepting radio and telephone traffic from all over the middle east so that the security authorities know what all the dodgy terrorist groups are doing in their spare time.I do believe there are a few Americans doing surveillance work as well.
G0GQK
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 10, 2006
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Must be BPL....transcontinentally propagating from Manassas...
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by N4ZOU on August 10, 2006
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Israel has equipment installed in their military vehicles that jam consumer equipment like cell phones, R/C toys, CB radios, and the like. The terrorists use stuff like that to set off IED's. They turn it on and jam everything for several hundred feet when moving which prevents the wireless remote controlled detonation of the IED while the military vehicles unknowingly pass by it.
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by N2RRA on August 10, 2006
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I've been experiencing some wierd interferance in New York City as well.
I've been noticing a pulsating wave form like signal on 15, 10, and 6 meters. First noticing it on my spectrum scope's on 10 meters moving from about 28.400 - 28.570 starting strong then towards the end fading. There is a BPL type sound that goes along with it as it moves across the band with up to a s-9 signal till it fades.
Strange thing though on 6 meters. When I located it on 6 meters it moved around back and forth as if it were analyzing the band. Here is where it gets stranger!
When I tried following it with the VFO to pin point on what frequency it seemed to be the strongest it seemed to avoid me. There were times I could tell on the scope's that it remained still for a sec. or two.
I know it sound strange, but I braught it up to the attention of a local ham N2FKF. We could not figure out what it could be, and he has many years of experience in A.R. When I mean it tried to avoid me it did just that changing speed, and direction as if it were playing freeze tag, and I don't mean that metephorically. That's what it was like.
Around this time we were experinceing quite frequent the band opening, and closing unlike ever seen. Stations would be 5/9+20 and drop to nothing in a millisecond. You could'nt even call it QSB. Then would reappear suddenly, or a couple of minutes later with no variation in signal call QSB. This would happen to many stations everyday, and I'm active on the H.F. bands very often everyday for years now, and never seen this happen. This was also around the time that many were talking about the H.E.A.R.T. project. Wonder what those boys are doing up there?
If anyone has experienced this e-mail me I'm very interested to hear your experience. Let's get down to the bottom of things.
73,
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by NC9K on August 10, 2006
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I've identified the culprit!: http://www.monmouth.army.mil/museum/pictures/DSCN2382.jpg
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by VE3MFN on August 10, 2006
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"H.E.A.R.T. project. Wonder what those boys are doing up there?"
H.E.A.R.T.????????? I dont know that one............By any chance do you mean HAARP??
(high altitude auroral research project)
Richard VE3MFN
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 11, 2006
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"I've identified the culprit!: http://www.monmouth.army.mil/museum/pictures/DSCN2382.jpg "
---------------------------------------------
I'm sure that tree goes with each one...
Guys, just drop it. That's my advice.
73,
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by N3OX on August 11, 2006
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You trying to cover something up Chip?!? ;-)
I, for one, will be over here applying a metallic overlayer to my scalp.
Dan
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K2GW on August 11, 2006
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>>I've identified the culprit!: http://www.monmouth.army.mil/museum/pictures/DSCN2382.jpg
Considering Cyprus is over the horizon from Lebanon, it's unlikely.
The source is probably airborne to be affecting the 132-160 MHz spectrum with that strength from that far away.
73
Gary, K2GW
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K8MHZ on August 11, 2006
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"I've been experiencing some wierd interferance in New York City as well."
Interference in New York City? My Gawd, where could that possibly come from?
Actually OM, I am surprised to find that the HF bands would be quiet enough in a city that large to even be able to use them. There are more and more devices sold in the US that seem to have ignored FCC regs. Our house has several of them. I just track them down and put them in a data base with their frequency. When I get on a bad freq, I just look up the device causing the inferference and un-plug it. I could see where NYC would have many times over the RF generators that we have with new ones coming each day.
Good Luck
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by N2RRA on August 11, 2006
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" My Gawd, where could that possibly come from"?
Well! common sense would dictate that when your used to hearing spurious emmisions for years in your home town you become acustomed, and familiar to them just like anywhere else in the world.
I'm proud to say that I have one of very few successful H.F. stations in the city that can work any station heard under any band condition. I'm also very aware of what station, or spurious emmisson is affecting me and where it's coming from. Using text book research, and RDF technics have lead me to rule out all of them. Bringing the question again, what was I hearing?
This would be called using your brain first, and if can't figure out ask questions. Now all I need is an intellagent scientific answer, please someone.
73 all,
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 11, 2006
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The intelligent, scientific answer is: 'drop it'.
No one is out to get you or stop your enjoyment of the ham bands.
73,
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
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by KX8N on August 11, 2006
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Just because you think everyone is out to get you doesn't mean they aren't...
I prefer not to live the paranoid life myself. RFI comes from many sources, some intentional and some not. My life, though, isn't going to come to a grinding halt just because I can't reach a local repeater or check into a boatanchor net.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by N2RRA on August 11, 2006
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LOL! when someone tells me to "Drop it" I dig deeper. chuckle!
The editor deserve's a response, and answer, and that's what hell get. Paranoia is not what this is. Not in my case anyway, but I'm also not just going to put my trust in anyone espicially any gov't because we all know where it leads too.
Drop? hah! I will never. Till next time.
73 all,
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by N8QBY on August 11, 2006
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The interference has to be coming from the planet Mars. They have the technology you know. Now someone run with it. :o)
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W5HTW on August 11, 2006
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<<by AE6RO on August 10, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
Is there anything on the Raven site that specifically addresses shortwave jamming?
As far as conspiracies go, if there weren't any the word would not exist.
I suppose you believe Marilyn Monroe offed herself.>>
NEVER! I know the truth. Elvis and she had a murder-suicide pact with John Lennon. But before they could carry it out, some critters from the planet XJKWTT dropped a Geonclear Nxtfeld bomb on them.
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 11, 2006
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OK; Here's where you can take it.
Write a letter to the FCC Enforcement Division as a complaint regarding an intruder. Document.
Those are the right folks to handle it. It will be in good hands.
Best of luck.
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by NS6Y_ on August 11, 2006
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As much as recent events have confirmed my convictions that Israel is the source of at least most of the evil in the world....
Let's apply Occam's Razor and look for simple things - how about a CATV leak or an internet router gone wild? Locally, there have been major problems with a local repeater, that were traced to a popular brand of router with some real EFI problems. There's supposed to be a write-up of this coming out sometime. Look up the CATV "channels", they're supposedly bottled up nice and safe in that coax, but leaks occur.
That Raven site .... I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Those poor people are convinced of this stuff, they really need some help.
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 11, 2006
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"LOL! when someone tells me to "Drop it" I dig deeper. chuckle!
The editor deserve's a response, and answer, and that's what hell get. Paranoia is not what this is. Not in my case anyway, but I'm also not just going to put my trust in anyone espicially any gov't because we all know where it leads too.
Drop? hah! I will never. Till next time.
73 all, "
----------------------------------
I assume it's real. It's just more than likely to be benign. That's all.
73,
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by NS6Y_ on August 11, 2006
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Oh dear, AFQ, I did not realize how close you are to the ..... source of the problem, you're actually in an area that it must be assumed is intended sooner or later to be "cleansed" for the IsReich. Scary stuff! Since the "terrorists" are using whatever radios they can get, presumably a lot of VHF stuff, you may have something there.
Scary. Got that 1939 feeling......
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by WA2JJH on August 11, 2006
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I think the "MR Potato HEAD crowd" is in the mix.
Oh well...break out the tin foil hats and sour cream!
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K8MHZ on August 11, 2006
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"Using text book research, and RDF technics have lead me to rule out all of them."
If you used RDF you should have located the source. Or at least have gotten to the near field which should be very close to the source.
I have found that once a near field hit is made the offender is usually less than 100 feet or so away and in plain sight.
What were you close to (within 100 feet or so) when you used RDF to find the signal? Did you seek a 3rd harmonic in order to compensate for front end overloading? You won't be able to get close enough to a strong signal without tracking the harmonics.
Once we know where you were when the best RDF reading sans overloading on the fundamental frequency was obtained we may be able to give you the intelligent answer you seek.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by N2RRA on August 11, 2006
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Out of respect for the original editor, and without getting dragged into a subject that does not belong to me I'll make this short and sweet. That's why I asked to e-mail me!
I know what you'r thinking, and I've already ruled out just about every leaky cable, and station around me. In fact I've spent about 3 years learning about the surrounding stations around me. So please if you want to find out the technicals e-mail me.
Out of respect for the editor why dont you turn your interest towards helping him out first. He could use your vast knowledge in R.F.
Thanks,
73
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by W1YW on August 12, 2006
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Telling you to drop it is about as helpful as one can get. Truly.
73,
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by N2RRA on August 12, 2006
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5B4AFQ,
Now that I recall I've heard of a similar event. I'll contact the ham, and e-mail you what I found out.
Thanks, this should be preety interesting.
73,
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by KU2US on August 12, 2006
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HEAR THIS.. I have a former felon living at my house on parole. The authorities ARE: Tapping my phones without a court order, I can prove it, scanning my computer hard drive for content-I HAVE proven it, observing the programs I and others at my home watch, thu my TV cable-I HAVE proven it, and bugging my car with a location device, which I found under the frame-I SMASHED it. So please dont tell me that the conspiracy folks are lunatics, because they are on to something, and above all this, I AM NOT THE FELON, and neither are any members of my family...Illegal invasion of privacy..You folks who think this never happens, wait until it happens to YOU!
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by N1IR on August 12, 2006
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Well, in that case, if you indulge in conspiracy theories, then maybe you should be paranoid that the MIB is monitoring this thread.
Maybe.
Maybe not.
I sleep well at night.
73,
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
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by W6EM on August 12, 2006
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Does Israel have a Compass Call? (Probably)
"Compass Call is the designation for a modified version of Lockheed corporation's C-130 Hercules aircraft configured to perform tactical command, control and communications countermeasures or C3CM. Targeting command and control systems provides commanders with an immense advantage before and during the air campaign. COMPASS CALL provides a non-lethal means of denying and disrupting enemy command and control, degrading his combat capability and reducing losses to friendly forces.
The EC-130H Compass Call is the only US wide-area offensive information warfare platform, Compass Call provides disruptive communications jamming and other unique capabilities to support the Joint Force Commander across the spectrum of conflict.
Specifically, the modified aircraft uses noise jamming to prevent communication or degrade the transfer of information essential to command and control of weapon systems and other resources. It primarily supports tactical air operations but also can provide jamming support to ground force operations.
During Operation Desert Storm EC-130H Compass Call electronic warfare aircraft, operating outside Iraqi airspace, safe from Iraqi defenses, jammed communications, hindering the effectiveness of Iraq's integrated air defense network. Rivet Fire has demonstrated its powerful effect on enemy command and control networks in Panama and Iraq."
A Compass Call, operating at high altitude near Lebanon could have easily affected spectrum on Cyprus.
If the Zionists don't have one of their own, they probably borrowed one from us. After all, where do you think they're getting the satellite intelligence for targeting Hezbullah missle launchers?
73,
Lee
W6EM
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by K8MHZ on August 12, 2006
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"Well, in that case, if you indulge in conspiracy theories, then maybe you should be paranoid that the MIB is monitoring this thread."
I think I heard K4MIB while monitoring 7.248 LSB the other day.
"The Men In Black, their lips are sealed"
-Blue Oyster Cult
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by N0AH on August 12, 2006
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Just before dawn, I saw a flying thing once (UFO) above the mountains going over Raton Pass on the border of new Mexico and Colorado. It was a light hovering in the sky yet no rays were shining off of it. Then it began to flutter and took a super sound speed to the right then a vertical 90 degree jump into god know's where- Yep, true story..........
KOA 50KW station out of Denver was NOT effected-
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by N1IR on August 12, 2006
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"If the Zionists don't have one of their own, they probably borrowed one from us. After all, where do you think they're getting the satellite intelligence for targeting Hezbullah missle launchers?"
--------------------------
FYI, there are no 'Zionists' and haven't been any since the founding of the state of Israel in the late 1940's.
It is used predominantly today by Islamic fascists and anti-Jewish groups. So please don't use it unless there is some anti-semitic message you are conveying.
You may be doubly unwilling to use it in this form because 'Zion' means 'male organ' in Hebrew. The historical notion of formation of Israel is related to 'Tsion-ism'.
If you are Jewish and hear someone say 'ZY-ON-ist', it is like saying you're climbing the GRAND TETONS to someone from Paris---that is, rather goofy and mildly idiotic.
Just so you know.
73,
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by NS6Y_ on August 13, 2006
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IR - better Google "AIPAC" and "PNAC" and get back to us after you've done some reading.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by NS6Y_ on August 13, 2006
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Oh, and check out the Wikipedia entry on "Zionism" too, someone put a LOT of work into that.
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 13, 2006
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Well, that's nice.
I know lots of people put lots of work into the wrong things.
Yes.
I stand by my comments.
When you see the word 'Zionist', unless it is being used with a descriptor or discussing an historical event, it is a code word for 'Jew in illegal homeland'. It is used by Islamic fascists; white supremacy groups; and other anti-semitics. It is the coded way of saying 'Jews out of Palestine'.
President Bush uses the term 'Israeli'. He's got it right. Why can't you?
I am appalled that you feel that I am not aware of the issue.
I am aware of the issue.
And please don't lecture me about alphabet soup.
Stick to ham radio.
73,
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 13, 2006
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"As much as recent events have confirmed my convictions that Israel is the source of at least most of the evil in the world.... "--NS6Y
------------------------------------------------
Part 97 describes one of the missions of US radio amateurs to be, effectively, 'ambassadors' of international good will.
Don't see how your opinion as stated qualifies. It sounds very much like what Mel Gibson said a few weeks back.
Say, does it bother you that I am Jewish, Alexandra?
Just curious.
73,
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 13, 2006
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I would like to remind everyone that this is not a thread about Israel, 'Zionists', or other targeted speculations.
The 5B4 has a legit interest in knowing the nature of the interference they experienced. It is clear we should drop it, because we are in no position to help, and the best course of action is to report it to their telecommunications reg office.
74,
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
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RE: Zionism vs. Israeli-ism
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by W6EM on August 13, 2006
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W1YW aka KASSY, ex-N1IR, Chipster, etc. Said:
"When you see the word 'Zionist', unless it is being used with a descriptor or discussing an historical event, it is a code word for 'Jew in illegal homeland'. It is used by Islamic fascists; white supremacy groups; and other anti-semitics. It is the coded way of saying 'Jews out of Palestine'."
Really? I used it in the context of Zionism equates to Israeli-ism. Not Judaism in general. And, no, it is NOT some type of code word for the anti-semitic. Not all Jews are supporting the tactics being used by Israel in the Middle East, so it is unfair to somehow claim usage of the term to be cloaked anti-Semitism or a claim that Israel has no right to exist or defend itself.
For that matter, it is quite small of you to throw your faith into this as a contorted way of attempting to suppress dialogue.
"President Bush uses the term 'Israeli'. He's got it right. Why can't you?"
Now, that's hilarious. Bush being used as an example of proper grammar and meaning of his utterances. The latest being the slur of the Islamic faith. "Islamic Facists" from his Boca. If someone looked up the definition of Facist and explained it to him, he might see that the definition fits his own profile much more than some extremist, terrorist fanatics that he can't find the right words to describe. And, in the process, slurs an entire religious faith and all those who practice it.
(Maybe the reason he's improperly using it is to attempt to dispell his own monetarist/corporatist/nationalist profile.)
What about the Christian fanatacists and extremists, such as Jim Jones, David Karesh, David Kazinsky, and Timothy McVeigh who have murdered masses? Were they "Christian Facists" or were they Lunatics, Extremists, Terrorists or Fanatics who professed to be Christian?
C'mon, KASSY, give us your informed opinion.
Lee
W6EM
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by W1YW on August 13, 2006
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Well, if you and your off-site buddies want to call me names, it might help if you explained 'kassy'.
I've already explained what 'Zionist' means.
R-E-A-D.
73,
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
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RE: Zionism vs. Israeli-ism
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by K8MHZ on August 13, 2006
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Lee,
I think you missed Chip's point.
If Bush can get it right, even a kindergartner should be able to!
I actually saw humor in that illustration.
People, listen up. Religion is being used as a scapegoat to take the blame for some very serious flaws in humanity. Greed, intolerance, hatred and a thirst for human blood.
Why is it that if Earthlings hate a certain group of people it is the norm to label them as Godless and then proceed to systematically murder them?
Because it replaces guilt with pride, perhaps the most devastating of all the aspects of religion.
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by W1YW on August 13, 2006
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'Islamic fascist' is an old term.
I recall it being used effectively before 9/11.
Try Professor Chris Hitchens' article in THE NATION from 4 Sept 2001.
President Bush is using appropriate description here. He certainly is not making up some verbiage.
I am sorry you are so confused by the term.
73,
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 13, 2006
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W1YW said:
"Well, if you and your off-site buddies want to call me names, it might help if you explained 'kassy'.
I've already explained what 'Zionist' means."
You are entitled to your opinion. My R-E-A-D is different. OK. If I could edit my posting, it would now say "Israelis".
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RE: Zionism vs. Israeli-ism
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by W6EM on August 13, 2006
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K8MHZ Said
"People, listen up. Religion is being used as a scapegoat to take the blame for some very serious flaws in humanity. Greed, intolerance, hatred and a thirst for human blood.
Why is it that if Earthlings hate a certain group of people it is the norm to label them as Godless and then proceed to systematically murder them?
Because it replaces guilt with pride, perhaps the most devastating of all the aspects of religion."
Exactly right.
Lee
W6EM
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 13, 2006
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W1YW said:
"'Islamic fascist' is an old term.
I recall it being used effectively before 9/11.
Try Professor Chris Hitchens' article in THE NATION from 4 Sept 2001.
President Bush is using appropriate description here. He certainly is not making up some verbiage."
Perhaps so. Certainly Facist has been around for a long time. So has Islam. How about coining "Christio Facist" or "Judeo Facist"? Somehow, the implied nationalistic and monetaristic traits don't fit the terrorist, extremist thugs of present mind.
However, linking personal monetary gain with a military campaign, calling unAmerican those who call into question the lies perpetrated to defend such improper conduct; and the restrictions of personal liberties does sound like actions reminiscent of the traditional definition of Facism.
So, the term was coined by someone in a magazine article in 2001? Well, I guess I'd have to read the article to see if its implied meaning is in line with the latest Bushism. And, where's it been for the last 5 years, if that's correct?
As to KASSY, well, one of your alter egos, I suppose. Sure sounds like you, from reading all of "her" posts.
Lee
W6EM
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by W1YW on August 13, 2006
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Lee McVey W6EM---
That sounds pretty demented to me. I don't know anyone named 'kassy', and I'm certainly not a girl. I'm a hetero guy-- since you seem incapable of understanding the role of sex in species.
And you feel it needs to be a ham topic.
I don't.
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 13, 2006
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. If I could edit my posting, it would now say "Israelis".
--------------------------------------------
That's fine. I disagree as to its (the post's) relevancy but I honor your true intent.
73,
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by M3ECM on August 13, 2006
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Wow, you guys are extrordinarily gay.
GET OVER IT.
Bloody yanks.
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 13, 2006
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There ya go. The quintessence of the ham radio international rag chew in 2006. Disengage brain; insult and characterize.
And people wonder why we talk about signal reports and the weather when actully ON the air...
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by KE7HFQ on August 13, 2006
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For those of you who enjoy bashing various religions and races I'd like to recommend www.paltalk.com in order to free up this site for Amateur Radio discussions.
Mike
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K8MHZ on August 13, 2006
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Shouldn't Yanks be capitalized?
And extraordinarily gay? As opposed to...ordinarily gay? Would you be so kind as providing us with an explanation in...Queen's English. Like Boy George would. :)
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by W1YW on August 13, 2006
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...not to mention 'bloody', which has no true meaning here, despite it's pre-eminant bad taste in UK.
"It's only a flesh wound..."
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by N2RRA on August 13, 2006
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W1YW Hey Chip,
It's funny how all of a sudden you come up with the best answer you could have from the beginning.
5B4 has a legit post and should contact proper telecommunications dept. Talk about article 97? You sure didn't display that in your first post respectfully to the editor. Your response was "just drop it" who the hell are you to tell people to "drop it"? That's not being a good liason in the ham community world wide. You even told me to drop it, and "it was for my own good" should've told you where to stuff it, but I didn't niether the editor.
Maybe if there wasn't some merit as too where jew's are in fact getting their intell. from, or weapons you wouldn't be getting so uptight. Please! Someone use's the word jew and your upset? This war you guys are having is bull just like all other wars. Killing men, women, and children no less no different from them. My gawd! I'm not even a racist, but a realist. Zionist? What does it all matter as long as you know who you are, and shouldn't care what other peole say or think.
By the way my wife is a jew "Henchske", and I'm not.
Like I said before have some respect for editors further post. From here on in I most likely will never look at another post about anything unless I post it.
I'm glad someone posted a preety good reason for the editor's problem. I could see jamming equiment for the war being their problem.
73,
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by N2RRA on August 13, 2006
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KE7HFQ,
Sorry Mike your 100% correct. I'll be doing that next time. Never again here mark my words no matter what.
73,
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K0RFD on August 13, 2006
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>W1YW Hey Chip,
>It's funny how all of a sudden you come up with the best
>answer you could have from the beginning.
Chip's the reason I don't go to QRZ.com any more for any reason other than to lookup callsigns.
He's a chronic thread-hijacker, always has to have the last word. Now he's brought his own unique brand of QRM over to this site.
It wouldn't be bad with a "one post per thread" rule. But Chip's eventually got to have at least half the posts in any thread.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 13, 2006
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W1YW said:
"That sounds pretty demented to me. I don't know anyone named 'kassy', and I'm certainly not a girl. I'm a hetero guy-- since you seem incapable of understanding the role of sex in species.
And you feel it needs to be a ham topic.
I don't."
You don't know an infrequent, disguised poster to this site named KASSY? My, how short is your memory? You, in fact, copied, commented on and reposted a somewhat libelous posting of "it/hers" about a week ago in reference to me. And, now you don't seem to remember?
In looking at KASSY's prior posts, their subject matter and the language, well, they resemble a familiar profile.
Since the editor of eHam allows "pen name" posters, such folks can hide beneath such handles. And, that's too bad.
Yes, the subject of this thread is what appears to be intentional interference to block VHF communications. Its source will no doubt remain a mystery, unless, of course, the perpetrators announce their deeds (doubtful) or some careful RDFing on its recurrence finds the source from the skies near Lebanon.
If it was, in fact, Israeli military activity, most likely our military knew of it or supplied the hardware. Like I said earlier, the satellite intelligence photos of Hexbullah rocket launchers shown on CNN were from OUR satellites and, of course, the GPS coordinates, well, only too convenient to pass those along.
If the Cypriot ham who saw what it looked like on his spectrum analyzer by chance photographed the patterns, the result could be then compared with some known footprints of countermeasures sets.
Also interesting to note that the Ruskies reportedly used to have devices that would scramble up GPS pretty effectively. That might explain why some things miss their mark.
And, I wouldn't blame anyone, these days, from using jammers in hostile territory. Extremists and terrorists probably use unsophisticated and easily procured radio gear in some pretty nefarious ways thse days. In fact, it was reported that the Pakistani President probably escaped serious injury from an IED thanks to his motorcade employing jamming technology.
Lee
W6EM
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 13, 2006
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Lee,
I don't know anyone named 'kassy'.
It definitely is not me.
I certainly can envision better ways to annoy you than to concoct such a hokey name, let alone use it.
Ain't me bro'...
Why don't you send me an e-mail so I can see what's troubling you on this; usually you're crystal clear.
73,
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by N2RRA on August 13, 2006
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W6EM,
Great write up! I think if the Cyprus station put your suggestion to the test it would help out a great deal. Makes lots of sense, and the technology is no secret so won't be hurting national security or anything. Just another casualty of war! Possibly!
73 lee,
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K8MHZ on August 13, 2006
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Lee,
If Chip says he is not Kassy, I would believe him. I don't think he has much reason to lie about it.
You two have very similar egos and could be a great asset to ham radio if you could put your differences aside and seek common ground.
Or at least mutual respect.
It is a pleasure to have made both of your acquaintances, something not possible without ham radio.
73,
Mark K8MHZ
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by W1YW on August 14, 2006
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This assertion that I am this person 'kassy' is delusional.
After I totally denied it, W6EM continues this nonsensical pap..
He should ask eham who 'kassy' is....not me.
As Shatner says: 'I enjoy being me''.
73,
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by KC8VWM on August 14, 2006
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As Shatner says: 'I enjoy being me''.
73,
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)
----------------
You say that as IF! Every! Other! SYLlable! WAS! of DIRE! ImPORTance!
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 15, 2006
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K8MHZ, Mark said:
"It is a pleasure to have made both of your acquaintances, something not possible without ham radio.
73,
Mark K8MHZ"
Mark: Thanks for the kind words. Likewise, a pleasure to have made your acquaintance. As soon as I get my antenna farm "planted" amongst the trees in the forest, I'll look for you on HF.
I'm planning on a number of switchable, phased colinear dipole arrays for 75M and higher. Four squares. Should be fun, as long as I don't run out of wire (or money to buy Cu at today's prices. Ouch!!!) Latching relays to conserve coax are much more economical these days than they used to be.
73,
Lee
W6EM
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W9WHE-II on August 15, 2006
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NS6Y writes:
"As much as recent events have confirmed my convictions that Israel is the source of at least most of the evil in the world...."
Wow.
Aren't you overlooking islamic fascists that have beheaded innocent people, flown jets into buildings filled with innocent people and want to wipe an entire nation off the face of the earth?
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by KB1HYR on August 16, 2006
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As to the possibility of aerial jamming by Israel. First - Israel is a sovereign state at war with a terrorist group in an adjacent state (Lebanon) that does a really poor job of policing itself. As such, it has every right to employ *any* tactics up to and including nuclear bombs in defense of its people. So if it is employing aerial jamming - a distinct possibility - it is only doing so because the jamming will serve to make their fighting forces more effective or less subject to attack.
If I were an Israeli, I would expect my government to use any means or methods at its disposal to inflict the maximum damage on the enemy and minimize damage to my fellow Israelis. If that means jamming, chemical weapons or even releasing anthrax or something even nastier - that's perfectly okay. Israeli citizens pay hefty taxes and have every right to expect their government to leave no stone unturned to keep them safe. (This same applies to any other government as well. Government's first responsibility of the safety of the people.)
If a little aerial jamming disrupts some amateur radio operators pursuing a hobby while the lives of active military forces are at risk - no biggy. But - yes - it sounds like aerial jamming though, of course, the source is unknown.
As for the other stuff ... I guess it would help to get the terms straight ....
Zionists do exist. By this, I mean that there are people, both Jewish and Christian, who self-identify as Zionists. On the Jewish side, you will find, as just one of dozens of examples, http://www.yavneholami.org, which describes itself specifically as Zionist. On the Christian side, as one of dozens of examples, http://www.israelmybeloved.com/, which specifically describes itself on its banner as a "Christian Zionist Center."
Since people self-describe themselves as Zionists, it is incorrect to state that the term is a "code word" that anti-semites use to bash all persons of Jewish ancestry. This is especially the case because there are a number of explicitly Jewish organizations that specifically oppose Zionism. For examples, please see here: http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/ If I were W1YW, I would *not* call up an explicitly Zionist organization and inform them that they either do not exist or that they are an anachronism that *shouldn't* exist! Such organizations (of either faith) tend to be rather humorless.
I am not criticizing either side of the pro or anti Zionist arguments because I really don't care. All I am saying is that Zionism (and hence Zionists) *do* exist, and I have provided proof of this fact.
Since Zionism is a political philosophy that people choose to adopt (as opposed to being born that way), it is perfectly legitimate to criticize that philosophy - it's tenets, policies or results - just as it is legitimate to criticize any other political philosophy. Especially since, as shown above, probably the majority of Zionists on this planet aren't even Jewish - to equate an attack on the political philosophy of Zionism with antisemitism is incorrect. *I* can choose to be a Zionist (philosophy), but I can't choose for my mother to have been Jewish (ancestry).
(However, as W6EM acknowledged, the term "Israeli" would have been more precise in that particular instance. But that doesn't mean that I am for or against any particular criticism of Zionism as a political philosophy.)
Likewise, just as the actions of the U.S. government do not necessarily represent the opinions of even a majority of the U.S. citizens (and maybe not even their best interests), the actions of the state of Israel fall under the same category. Thus, criticism of the United States cannot be equated with criticism of any particular ethnic group within the United States any more than criticism criticism of Israel can automatically be equated with criticism of any of the ethnic groups that inhabit the state of Israel, including the majority Jewish population. (The state of Israel is multiethnic, being the home of approximately 2 million Arabs who actually vote and have representation in the Knesset. (About 1/4th of Israel's population is not Jewish)).
What I am saying is that criticism of a philosophy (Zionism/Communism/Nazism/etcism) is not the same thing as criticizing an ancestry (Jews/Russians/Germans/etc). And criticism of a government (Israel, Iceland) is also not the same as criticizing a religion (Judaism, Asatru). Neither type of criticism can reasonably be construed as antisemitism, which could most accurately be defined as a hatred of (ancestral)Jews - just for being born Jewish - that has no rational basis.
So W6EM and NS6Y have a right to their opinions. Whether I agree with them or not (especially some of the more sweeping generalizations such as Israel being a source of all the evil in the world ??) isn't germaine.
Because antisemitism and racism have been successfully pathologized, one of the oldest political tricks in the book to stifle debate is to try to portray a critic's remarks as being either racist or anti-semitic. This means that the criticism itself no longer needs to be answered because the critic's character is assassinated instead. This, however, is counterproductive in the long term since insulation from criticism prevents self-improvement.
Nevertheless, there are certainly occasions when a person who hates a group of people for no rational reason (such as those who refer to white people as "blue eyed devils" or to blacks by using the n-word), that attacks on that group of people will be couched in attacks on that people's predominant religions, values, mores or philosophies. But the extent to which this actually occurs is difficult to ascertain because the actual motives of the person are impossible to discern.
I would also like to point out that it is perfectly legitimate to criticize a religion, it's beliefs, or the actions of its followers. Every day I hear the term "right-wing Christian" - which acknowledges a link between religious and political views while simultaneously criticizing a religion. It is thus equally legitimate to put Islam, Judaism or Shinto under a microscope and subject it to whithering critique, just as has happened with Christianity in recent years.
I am neither Christian nor Jewish nor Zionist nor an anti-semite - so I don't have a dog in this discussion, but I thought I should try to portray matters in terms of reason and fairness rather than implications and bad-will.
Hopefully, I've helped. If not, try not to jam my rig - okay? Since I only send code at 5wpm - it's a darned good thing I stick to the weather!
(*chuckles)
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 16, 2006
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A modest amount of care in reading previous posts would have revealed what a waste of effort and our time this post requests. Obviously I am aware of various political parties, which utilize a descriptor along with the word. Said that. YOU didn't get it. Others did.
That's not what we are discussing here.
"Zionists" do not exist. You will not find anyone in the Western Press who calls Isaraelis 'Zionists'.
The State of Israel exists.
Israelis exist.
Again, 'Zionists' do not.
No need. Israel exists.
Case closed.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 16, 2006
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KB1HYR says they exist. Now, here you go again, saying they don't.
I'm inclined to believe KB1HYR. After all, he's provided us fact, not just inuendo and hyper-inflated opinion.
"Zionists do exist. By this, I mean that there are people, both Jewish and Christian, who self-identify as Zionists. On the Jewish side, you will find, as just one of dozens of examples, http://www.yavneholami.org, which describes itself specifically as Zionist. On the Christian side, as one of dozens of examples, http://www.israelmybeloved.com/, which specifically describes itself on its banner as a "Christian Zionist Center.""
And, to add to his eloquent research, would you believe there's even a Zions First National Bank, headquartered in Salt Lake City (Not Tell-A-Viv or Haifa)
Zions not only exist, but they even pay you back with *interest*.
Chipster, you need to heed HYR's advice and stop wearing your religion on your shirt sleeve. It doesn't work for Bush, and it isn't working for you.
Lee
W6EM
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K8MHZ on August 16, 2006
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It would seem that with a sufficient amount of Zionization, anyone could become Zionized. This would make them a Zion.
My quesion is would they become positive or negative Zions?
In most of this discussion it seems that the Zions have been negatively charged, with just a few positively charged Zions. This would indicate that Zionization would produce mostly negative Zions.
The problem is that when you get too many negative Zions in one place the end result seems to be a random group of Zionic particles.
There has been some research in the development of a de-Zionizing ray but it may be years before we see a working model. Even when that happens it will be feared that engineers won't be able to agree on which de-Zion is the best.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by WA2JJH on August 16, 2006
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Positrons, neutrino's, and quarks and isotopes that glow in the dark. These threads do violate the Heisenberg uncertainty principal.
Actually Chaos theory makes more sense.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by KB7UXE on August 18, 2006
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I heard on the news today, the us military, in an effort to stop IED, Improvised explosive device, an explosive devices often used in unconventional warfare,
ya know, the ones killing our service personel. they plant them along side the road and when military rigs pass by the detonate them by cell phone, or toy remote..
The us military is currenly using jamming tactics to
help save lives.
The news also reported they are finding about half of them now, but there are now twice as many...
"Can't we all just get along...."
view it as the cost of saving lives.
of course it could be the martins..
Gort, Klaatu barada nicto ....
Dan.
kb7uxe
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by TG9AKH on August 19, 2006
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I was thinking how we could turn this preposterous discussion thread into something more interesting, like the CW versus no-CW debate. It turns out that Israel recently decided to keep CW testing, which makes that country an ally of the keep-CW-testing camp. I will not elaborate on the ramifications of Israel�s support for CW testing, as I�m sure there are hundreds of people out there who can and will use their imagination, read in between the lines, and tie CW with... let�s just say "etc."
;-) :-) Boy! boy! ohh boy! I am a very bad boy!!!
Must I say that the original posting was quite interesting and I was hoping that the discussion would move into the more technical aspects of HF jamming devices and all that. Nope. We are all too human! So let�s just feed the monster and keep the wheel turning!!!
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K8MHZ on August 20, 2006
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Hi Mario!!!
Hey, why don't you try to make the SPG net today (Sunday)?
14,289 kc USB @ 17:00 UTC
I would love to hear you on the air again.
73 OM
Mark K8MHZ
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 20, 2006
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Mario--
I can't imagine why this would fall into a technical discussion of jamming: it's not what hams do.
73,
Chip W1YW
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K8MHZ on August 20, 2006
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"I can't imagine why this would fall into a technical discussion of jamming: it's not what hams do."
Indeed. But it may be something that we become victims of and therefore worthy of interest and discussion.
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by TG9AKH on August 20, 2006
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"Mario--
I can't imagine why this would fall into a technical discussion of jamming: it's not what hams do.
73,
Chip W1YW"
Hi Chip--Some dead Greek philosopher said something to the effect of "Man is a political animal" which likely explains why the more "technical" aspects of Jamming devices were of no interest to people in this discussion thread, but instead political Zionism (and anti-Zionism and everything in between) turned out to be of great interest. Truly fascinating.
We must acknowledge that today Man is not only a "political animal",... these days Man is a highly weaponized political animal. Although sometimes it is hard to justify retaining the "political" adjective in that phrase, as "highly weaponized" tends to carry more weight in the real world.
73,
Mario TG9AKH
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K8MHZ on August 20, 2006
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Hmm...
Maybe that is why I dug out a dictionary when the discussion of whether or not Zionists existed came into play.
I found that Webster defines Zionist as an adjective, not a noun. Chip is correct as most refer to a Zionist incorrectly like it were a noun. A person could be a Zionist Christian, the same as they could be a good Christian but they would be a Christian nonetheless, not a good nor a Zionist.
Interestingly enough I found that Webster considers Zion to be synonymous with Israel in the third definition, and synonymous with heaven (no cap) in the fourth.
The first definition held by Webster is a 'hill in Jerusalem, the site of Solomon's Temple.'
Zionism is defined as a movement that supports the State of Israel.
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by TG9AKH on August 20, 2006
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From the Concise Oxford Dictionary of Current English, 8th Edition:
"Zionism. ... n. a movement (orig.) for the reestablishment and (now) the development of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel. Zionist. n."
In the Concise Oxford "n." stands for noun. Could it be that Zionist is a noun in British English and an adjective in American English?
In Spanish, "sionista" is the direct equivalent of "Zionist". "Sionista" is considered an adjective according to the Royal Academy of the Spanish Language. "Sionismo", by contrast, is definitely a noun.
Perhaps we could conduct a survey of all languages and dialects of the world and find out how many treat Zionism as an adjective or noun.
Mark: I'll try to catch you in a few minutes on 14m.
73,
Mario TG9AKH
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K8MHZ on August 20, 2006
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Hi Mario,
We had the net from 17:00 to about 17:45 and the band was terrible. I could only hear about half the stations. We are considering moving the net to a later hour.
Did you hear anyone at all? The strong stations were W4LGH and WL7BPY. I could hear Mike WA2JJH but he could barely copy me due to noise level on his end. He is in NYC and I can't imagine what would be noisy there :)
At around 17:30 someone with a strong signal started up on 14.288 and I had an S7 on the splatter which took out the net while they were transmitting.
I guess we aren't quite ready for prime time yet!
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K8MHZ on August 20, 2006
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"In the Concise Oxford "n." stands for noun. Could it be that Zionist is a noun in British English and an adjective in American English?"
It is more likely that it is an abridgement.
Pretty hard to get an unabridged dictionary in an easy to swallow paperback. Sometimes the definitions are shortened for brevity.
I wonder if there is a word for adjectives that are also nouns. Like illiterate for example. One can be both illiterate and an illiterate. (Can one be an illiterate illiterate?) Actually, if you look up adjective you will find that it is a noun. Let's ponder the fact that a word can be a noun, an adjective is defined by Webster as a noun, and not be a noun at all. This post for instance is silly, just such a an adjective.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 20, 2006
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Hi, Mark and all.
Well, English is fractured in seemingly unending fashion. Adjectivizing, I'd call it. We do it all the time. Take, for example, lightning. A noun. But, also an adjective, as in "lightning fast." Or, Irish. A people as well as a type of Pub.
So, if clearly Zion is a noun, one who practices whatever Zion is must then be a Zionist, right? After all, leftist is short for left winger. Rightist, er, well, I guess that one bombed. Neo-con is more correct these days.
Oh well, at any rate, those folks in Utah, by definition, must be banking at either "Israelis-First" or "Heavens-First" national bank. Perhaps the latter definition. As the former, well, it just wouldn't fit very well in Utah.
Sounds like our friend Chip thinks jamming of the instrumental variety is the only acceptable discussion topic. I disagree. Amateur radio must defend itself when attacked. So, the best defense is adequate knowledge of the attacker and its methodologies. Whether its BPL digi-garbage or Zionist military operatives. Either way, its useful discussion material.
73,
Lee
W6EM
Leeds, AL
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K8MHZ on August 20, 2006
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"Sounds like our friend Chip thinks jamming of the instrumental variety is the only acceptable discussion topic."
To that end I suggest the following, which I really am becoming quite fond of. But then I am a Les Paul fan and it looks like Chip is a Fender man. The guitars in this song are Gibson Les Paul Studio guitars.
http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=411714&t=1
I think what Chip was really trying to say was that if there are military efforts jamming ham radio that we may have to succumb to a dose of reality and realize that our service is still considered a hobby and the importance of military affairs supercedes the importance of ham radio. I agree. I also think that if the interference is military based that we should take a hands off approach, as Chip has mentioned quite strongly.
There are many other sources of intentional interference that we should be concerned with.
The bad thing is that many of these sources have call signs.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 20, 2006
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Mark, K8MHZ said:
"I think what Chip was really trying to say was that if there are military efforts jamming ham radio that we may have to succumb to a dose of reality and realize that our service is still considered a hobby and the importance of military affairs supercedes the importance of ham radio. I agree. I also think that if the interference is military based that we should take a hands off approach, as Chip has mentioned quite strongly."
Should we have ignored the old Russian "Woodpecker?" Or, lately, the Chinese clandestine 20M broadcaster? I say no. And, this example should likewise not be ignored. Especially if the "strong" suggestion to ignore it comes from someone who may fancy an interest as a defense contractor of some sort. (e.g. poo-pooing the bad works of a benefactor might pinch the pocketbook??) Maybe the Israelis like dummy loads disguised as antennas. Who knows.
The affected ham was probably not a citizen of the likely country responsible for the jamming. As such, he is a victim of its effects and has every right to protest or complain to his government about the situation. And, I would encourage him to do so. Whether or not it will have an impact upon future recurrence, that's of course, unknown. But, none-the-less, he should file a report to the authority responsible for communications on Cyprus. If it truly was broadband jamming, then there probably were other services impacted as well as amateur radio. Some of which might just have been public or life safety related. In fact, the IARU might be interested as well.
Now, if HIS government is the source and wishes to remind him that he is a hobbiest and is of lesser priority, that is their call, not ours, since they control his licensure and operating privileges.
Also, if there's the slightest worry about the sensitivity of discussing any technology involved, well focus any and all criticism toward those manufacturers and military historians that have posted details on the Internet. Not here.
73,
Lee
W6EM
Leeds, AL
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by KB1HYR on August 21, 2006
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The discussion of jamming and how it affects ham radio reminds me of a more-or-less innocuous phrase I have seen too many times to count related to ham radio equipment.
Paraphrased, it is a regulation specifying that ham radio gear cannot generate interference - but MUST accept it. This also applies to medical and other gear too.
I read this to mean: gear must be easy to jam.
Then there are the similar regulations that prohibit hams from using any sort of encryption, with the exception of command and control traffic to satellites.
These regulations make one thing brutally clear: ham radio is an expendable hobby when government decides that it is!
Perhaps that is good, perhaps not - it all depends upon your view of the politics of the governments in question. (Something I don't care to explore at the moment.)
On a separate topic - I like the fact that Israel has maintained a CW requirement and hope that the U.S. does as well. I'm not arguing for or against any of the politics surrounding Israel - simply saying that their decision in this regard is a good one.
:-)
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K8MHZ on August 21, 2006
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"Paraphrased, it is a regulation specifying that ham radio gear cannot generate interference - but MUST accept it."
This pertains to mostly out of band and spurious emissions. This does not apply to intentional interference aka jamming which is not a result of equipment design. All anyone or thing has to do to jam any communication device is to transmit a similar signal on the used frequencies that is stronger than the signal targeted for jamming or transmit on the IFs if known and overload the receiver at that point. It is far easier to jam than devise a defense against same.
The wider the mode, the easier to jam. CW and other narrow band digital is the hardest fixed spectrum mode to jam. Spread spectrum and frequency hoppers are the most resistant to intentional jamming.
Ham gear is no more sensitive to jamming than other forms of consumer radio equipment. Commercial radio equipment is only a notch up but is still very susceptible. Especially with today's non technos using repeaters that are so easy to stick into transmit mode until time out.
No, I am not a jammer. Quite the contrary. I am part of a small group here that uses RDF techniques to locate interference to our local public service agencies' radio systems. If a sleeping firefighter can wipe out a repeater because he is sitting in a lounge chair on his PTT, I know the same can be done intentionally and with potentially disastrous effects.
How many people in this thread have stopped to think that it may be more important to learn how to stop people from jamming our police and fire frequencies than it is for ham radio?
Ham radio is the means we use to practice, thus it is important and our local PDs and FDs know it is.
Do yours?
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 21, 2006
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No; you guys shouldn't put words in my mouth.
Jamming is not an activity of Part 97, so it is not an amateur radio topic we pursue in the US. Also, you guys are assuming it was jamming, and there is no compelling reason to believe this. It was a source that caused temporary interference. You have no basis for remarks on intent, nor location, nor motivation, of the source. Period.
False extrapolations from limited data are also not within the purview of Part 97.
It is a fair assumption, IMO, that worlds of technology exist beyond our limited techno-use and view.
When we, as a service, discuss certain topics, we lose respect from many of those who see us otherwise as a resource. The recent HAARP discussion--with the alarmist nonsense about fatal blackouts at HF--is an excellent example. This is another.
My opinion.
73,
Chip W1YW
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 21, 2006
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W1YW/Chipster said:
"No; you guys shouldn't put words in my mouth."
We didn't. Perhaps an admission that when speaking, you weren't using your mouth and still aren't.
The author made a reasonably good case that the broadband noise, as displayed on his spectrum analyzer, was just that: intentional broadband interference. Especially since experienced by stations 20kM or more away from him.
So, we shouldn't talk about anything not related to Part 97? My good man, the fellow who originated this thread is on the island of Cyprus. Part 97 isn't relevant to him. His amateur radio regs just might be Pi Rho Chi, for all we know.
As far as getting off topic, er, non-amateur radio, well, Chipster, how soon you forget. But we won't. Your endless machinations into your guitar(jamming); your cigars by the fire; endless self-enfatuations; etc., etc., etc.
Let's talk about the thread topic: intentional interference to block communications (jamming).
Sure would be nice to have a picture of his spectrum analyzer display. Perhaps if it happens again, we can all see it.....
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 21, 2006
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W1YW: Last time I checked we were free to discuss whatever we wish, guaranteed by the Constitution. Who cares if "Others" lose respect?
Temporary intentional interference means temporary jamming.
AE6RO
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 21, 2006
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You are correct: you are free to talk about anything you want that makes idiots out of ham radio; endangers lives; provides info to hostile forces; etc.
After all, look at the bomb making formulas on the internet.
No danger in that 'free speech', is there OM ? (Sarcasm intended).
With free speech comes the wisdom of responsibility.
Just because you CAN discuss anything doesn't mean you should discuss everything.
If you disagree with this, please let me know. I am at the age where its handy to know who not to QSO anymore.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 21, 2006
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"If you disagree with this, please let me know. I am at the age where its handy to know who not to QSO anymore."
Wo-hoa! Crime and PUNISHMENT. Threats of ostrification, etc. How juvenile.
If telling the world that the Israelis are jamming 134-150MHz is endangering anyone's life, well, I'd have to ask someone to explain just how that could possibly be.
Did he reveal the GPS coordinates of an aircraft flying a tight pattern and emitting the noise?
What has been said so far certainly is no worse than saying that an Israeli company, Mobat, makes a fine HF backpack transceiver, the Micom, with type III encryption on board. Saw it, thanks to the salesman, at the ARRL Hamfest in Huntsville this last weekend. No price tag, though, and I was afraid to ask. And, the only thing "motorola" about the Micom these days was the Radius-series mike plugged into the radio. Looks just like the one in my mobile.....
If someone has some special knowledge that could in some way be used to harm others, well, it is up to that individual not to disseminate same. Depending on its importance, it may have penalties attached for its release. Anything on the public Internet with a "dot mil" after it is certainly not sensitive or classified. Sensitive IP stuff from our country is NOT on the Web, by design. And, yes, there may be information on the Web, just like in one's local public library, that could be used to harm others. Also, I can think of plenty of objects acquired in the interest of defense or protection that can be transformed into things capable of doing great harm.
This topic is about an individual, perhaps an entire country, being victimized. Most likely by a foreign government's questionable military operations. It should be reported to the Cypriot government and retaliatory measures of some form undertaken.
If the Chipster doesn't like that, well, too darn bad.
Simple and straightforward.
Lee
W6EM
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 21, 2006
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Well, the usual limit to freedom of speech is not yelling "fire!" in a movie theater. So I don't disagree that there is a limit to free speech.
I have worked W1s on 40 before with my mighty 35 watt Heathkit and homebrew vertical. But that was on CW. Do you see CW ops as a threat to national security?
Anyway, I don't see where an open discussion of this odd interference to a Cypriot station in any way threatens this country.
In any event, I have notices some unusual goings-on 6 metres and 30 metres. So being the good American that I am, I stick to 40 meters. After all, 30 meters is allocated to American hams on a secondary, shared basis. I'm sure 30's propagation character lends itself to more useful activities than a hobby.
Glad to read that Israel has retained the Morse requirement for ham radio there. I imagine they have a lot of surveillance to do on hams there.
73s, AE6RO
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 21, 2006
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You know it just crossed my mind that he's probably a teenager. Let's not be too hard on him: he's still got that youthful idealistic enthusiasm. Hasn't had it kicked out of him yet. I'll bet he's 16 or so. Probably a no-coder to boot.
73s, AE6RO
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K8MHZ on August 21, 2006
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"You know it just crossed my mind that he's probably a teenager. Let's not be too hard on him: he's still got that youthful idealistic enthusiasm. Hasn't had it kicked out of him yet. I'll bet he's 16 or so. Probably a no-coder to boot.
73s, AE6RO"
When you work CW do you actually send --... ...-- ...?
One cheap shot deserves another OM.
219/3rds
K8MHZ
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 21, 2006
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1) Not 16;
2) I think young people (to me that's anyone under 30) are important--and that includes those in uniform;
3) I have spent most of my career teaching, nurturing, and advocating for the welfare of young people;
4) I like CW. I used it less frequency now because of hearing problems;
5) Don't care about 'no-code' that much.
You really are projecting the airs of an idiot. I would like to assume that is not the actual case. Please don't erode my pleasant point of view with respect to your makeup.
73,
Chp W1YW
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 22, 2006
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K8MHz: Yes, I read all about the "73" vs. "73s" debate. I think "73s" is much prettier written but no, I don't send the "s" when QSOing.
73(s) AE6RO
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 22, 2006
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W1YW:
1). Whether or not I'm an idiot depends on who you talk to.
2). I don't use makeup. I'm a guy.
3). OK- you're 18. You give the impression of a very young person. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
4). I decided that the Morse requirement of 5 WPM ought to be retained because no-one is going to learn Morse code otherwise.
73, AE6RO
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 22, 2006
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If someone determines this person's (apparent)pathology, let me know.
It's not the sort of thing that I associate with ham radio.
73,
Chip W1YW
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 22, 2006
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AE6RO:
Be grateful you have a job.
And save your '88's' for others.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 22, 2006
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Fine. I'll drink up all the '88s myself.
10-4 (hic)good buddy! AE6RO
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Ham Radio Blackout--How to start a bonfire
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by TG9AKH on August 22, 2006
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EEeeaasy eaaasy fellows! Can we please return to the technical aspects of (military) jamming of HF frequencies? Zionism the noun vs. Zionist the adjective? Code vs. no code? How they are all connected?
Make up, day jobs and IQ levels aren´t *that* interesting in themselves, really... unless we introduce some additional adjectives like:
a) "(non)Zionist" make up
b) "(non)Zionist" day job
c) "(non)Zionist" IQ level
...great... we got a gallon of gas... loads of flammable material... does anybody have any matches? hi hi hi
73
Mario TG9AKH
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout--How to start a bonfire
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by AE6RO on August 22, 2006
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I don't think my last (hic) reply was so inflamatory.
I'm not sure 88s are brewed anymore anyway. I think it is a kind of malt liquor.
I was wondering if the ceasefire in Lebanon had any effect on the, er, interference.
As far as the different conjugations of (non)Zionist go I am not touching that one with a 10 foot CB whip. Just wanna talk about radio and (hic) beer.
10-4 good buddy! Handle here is John.
73, AE6RO
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout--How to start a bonfire
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by W6EM on August 22, 2006
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Perhaps a cease fire is, in fact, a cease-jam as well.
As to your brew, I've heard of a '45' malt liquor. And, we used to call brews "807's". Sort of a code word for younger hams back in the '60s when a real 807 was a popular final.
"88's" has always been a YL signature, as long as I can recall, meaning love and kisses. Be careful with its use, though. If you use it around our friend, he might just morph into something called Kassie.
Welcome to the virtual world of "Chip-shots". (Give and take. Not the golf type, of course.)
73,
Lee
W6EM
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout--How to start a bonfire
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by AE6RO on August 23, 2006
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Well maybe I got confused about the use of '88s. He did seem offended.
I drank '45s a few times but got a pretty bad hangover.
Can't help noticing that the original poster hasn't weighed in for awhile. Maybe something happened to his computer? or his station? Wideband interference on VHF is noteworthy.
Who or what is a "Kassie?"
73, John (AE6RO)
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout--How to start a bonfire
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by W6EM on August 23, 2006
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AE6RO, John said:
"Can't help noticing that the original poster hasn't weighed in for awhile. Maybe something happened to his computer? or his station? Wideband interference on VHF is noteworthy.
Who or what is a "Kassie?""
Yeah, he seems to be scarce for some reason. It would be interesting to know more from him or others who have experienced the jamming. If the noise reappeared, or if the Cypriot/Greek government had anything to say about it.
As to Kassie, well, let's just say "she" is someone's alter-ego. Posts infrequently. Writing style and subject matter of interest is quite similar to ex-N1IR, now W1YW.
One of the things I don't like about eHam is that it allows non-ham-call poster names. So, some people use phony names to hide behind.
Lee
W6EM
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 23, 2006
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How do we know Lee W6EM isn't 'kassy'?
Its isn't me.
I conclude that since I am not 'kassy', and the 'victim' is obsessed with 'kassy', that Lee is the logical candidate.
Just like the most obvious suspect in arson is the one who reported the fire....
Conclusion: Occam's razor says that LEE is kassy.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 23, 2006
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Its rather funny that someone who knows the history would make such a ridiculous claim.
On the Hams For Action thread on eHam, out of the blue, Kassy appears with essentially a libelous discourse on me. Would I say such a thing about myself? Chipster, on the other hand, who had thus far been *silent* on the entire thread, appears as the next poster or so, clipping what Kassy posted, thus repeating the libel with an innocuous addition of some sort.
My research into infrequent, prior postings by Kassy indicated that the manner of posting, both subject matter and style, resemble N1IR/W1YW a great deal.
Your Occam's razor is in need of a new blade. Would I purposefully denigrate myself on a public thread by means of a bogus poster name? What useful purpose would that serve? A sympathy trip? No, if I need attention, I'll find some other means to receive accolades.
Lee
W6EM
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 23, 2006
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Nonetheless, Lee, it makes sense that you would be 'kassy'.
Yes; I think you ARE 'kassy'.
Why hasn't eham told you who it is?
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 23, 2006
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I would like to remind you, Lee, that you now have a , some would say, notorious history of being 'in the wrong'.
A great and very recent example--besides your false accusation of libel by me under an alleged (and false) pseudonym--is your effort to push through , IMO, silly restrictions on BPL.
It is prominantly in the public record of the August FCC MO&O that your request was DENIED because it LACKED MERIT.
Is that what 'kassy' meant by 'rabble rouser'?
LACKED MERIT there Lee;
LACKED MERIT.
It would be helpful to everyone if you learned not to make goofy requests and accusations. They might think more highly of you, IMO.
Maybe even 'kassy'.
But you'd have to ask...I wouldn't know.
73,
Chip W1YW
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 23, 2006
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Ah-ha! Broadband over powerlines! Now there's something I can really get into!
I used to worry alot about BPL but since the NTIA weighed in, not so much. It seems they use HF and would miss it if it were covered by BPL computer noise.
Last summer a company in Kearny Mesa, near San Diego, tested a BPL system and I could hear it clearly
all the way up here. (120 miles as the crow flies).
Now anybody who supports BPL hates radio because they are incompatible.
So there. And I was surprised that the ARRL supports any form of BPL.
73s, John AE6RO
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 23, 2006
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W1YW/exN1IR/Chipster said:
"It is prominantly in the public record of the August FCC MO&O that your request was DENIED because it LACKED MERIT."
I hadn't bothered to read it until you brought it up. I'm not surprised. I didn't expect the FCC's judging of my Petition to be fair in any way, shape or form.
Anyway, I really didn't expect anything else. Why? Well, its a government body. Judge and jury for its own decision making process. And, since we have the best government money can buy, well, that's the way it is.
Hopefully, the ARRL can, if it so chooses, appeal its denial in a Court of Law. There were, after all, some fairly serious accusations of official misconduct, or worse that should have some consequences attached.
Hopefully, no police officer or fireman or accident victim will suffer harm due to BPL interference in rural/fringe areas. But, if it should happen, the points were made and they're in the record for some barrister to make hay with.
Also, if you read my Petition it really had nothing to do with amateur radio. My main concern was, and still is, for BPL-generated interference to public safety radio systems.
I've made filings before, and I probably will continue to do so, if I think the issue is worthwhile. My last was just several days ago. When was your last FCC Comment or Petition, Chipster?
So, Kassy, what say?
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 24, 2006
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"I don't think my last (hic) reply was so inflamatory.
I'm not sure 88s are brewed anymore anyway. I think it is a kind of malt liquor."
-------------------------------------
It is also important for you to know that the White Supremicists use '88' as a code for saying 'Heil Hitler'.
Perhaps you might understand that when a man says that to another man, especially one of Jweish extraction, that it must be regarded with more than a modicum of bad taste.
I provide this as relevant info for your edification.
I assume your intent was not to use the WS meaning.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 24, 2006
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Well, sorry about that. I thought 88 meant "hugs and kisses" as in ham radio. Or a malt liquor.
At least I know what "4-20" means.
73, John AE6RO
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by WA2JJH on August 24, 2006
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88 has many meanings. I did see on the history channel, that the neo-natzi skinheads DO USE 88 as Heil Hitler.
88 means hugs and kisses on CB.
88 has a Zen budism meaning too.
88's are 807 finals too.
88 is a beer refence too.
funny how this EW thread has brought out veilded anti-semitism.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 24, 2006
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I am really curious now about 88. Why would it mean 807? Kind of a bad actor among tubes unless you are careful. Probably best to stick with a 6146 nowadays.
Perhaps you are familiar with the Zen Buddhism meaning of 88? That's a new one for me.
73s, John AE6RO
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RE: 88nzen
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by WA2JJH on August 24, 2006
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As you know zens symbol is Yin/YANG. A Yin/Yang looks like a "69" Out of respect some use 88. That is an American adaptation.
88 is two equal but opposite infinity signs.
I am giving you a highly diluted version.
Yin/yang also has binary implications.
Cum coh cup is thank you in Tia.
73 It is the journey, not the result.
DE MIKE/JJH
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W9WHE-II on August 24, 2006
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"But, if it should happen, the points were made and they're in the record for some barrister to make hay with"
Ah yes, the sue everybody, everywhere for everything philosophy. Now you understany why insurance costs so much!
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 24, 2006
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"funny how this EW thread has brought out veilded anti-semitism. "
-----------------------------------------
That's why it needs to be confronted and corrected, and the initial assumption must be made that the person is merely misinformed. And give them the opportunity to correct themselves.
The code words to indicate veiling are, for example, 'that's YOUR problem' and 'a little sensitive, aren't we?' and 'you're paranoid and my great aunt cousin was Jewish', and so on.
73,
Chip W1YW
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 24, 2006
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RE: 807
The 807 was, 40-60 years ago, a common tube used for QRO operation. It was rather large and curvaceous, suggestive of the beer bottles common to that era.
It is an antiquated allusion.
'Frosty cool ones'(FCO's) makes more sense.
But then again, my beer consumption is nearly non-existent.
On rare occasions I like a good wheat(Belgian) beer on a very hot day.
73,
Chip W1YW
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 24, 2006
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Well I have a few 807s around as a matter of fact. Tubes, not beers. I've also got some 1625s. Don't really know what to do with them as 6146s are better and probably cheaper nowadays. In fact they are still made.
I read that some audiophiles like 807s as audio power amplifiers. I used to have a Viking II which used them as the AM modulator but I only used it on CW.
73s, John AE6RO
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 24, 2006
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807's were common after WWII as very cheap surplus. They took a LOT of abuse and with a fan could be pushed to almost 100 watts apiece.
These pre-date 6146's; basically they were the 6146's of their day. 572B's replaced them in use in amplifiers--with different circuitry of course.
I remember then as a young squirt--they were on their way out. Man, they were gorgeous to look at on a deep dark night with DX humming away.
Now there...was...power--- of man over nature!
73,
Chip W1YW
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by KE5IRL on August 24, 2006
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You know I come by this page from time to time. I always find something interesting and informative. I saw this post and was curious about it. Jammming, spurrious signals and no Xmit/Rcv. Wow what could this be. So I start the thread, good at first, but soon it takes this left/right turn to I don't know where. So as we are no off topic I do have a question...
What came first the Ketchup Bottle or the Mustard Jar.
Come lets close this thread and all go make a sandwhich.
73
Bruce
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 25, 2006
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W1YW/ex-N1IR/Chipster Said:
"807's were common after WWII as very cheap surplus. They took a LOT of abuse and with a fan could be pushed to almost 100 watts apiece.
These pre-date 6146's; basically they were the 6146's of their day. 572B's replaced them in use in amplifiers--with different circuitry of course.
I remember then as a young squirt--they were on their way out. Man, they were gorgeous to look at on a deep dark night with DX humming away."
Let's get our facts straight. Perhaps memory as well as vision are blurred from too many hours behind the telescope eyepiece.
807s were a medium power pentode with a 6.3V filament. The 'domestic' version of the 1625, with a 12.6v filament, two of which were the heart of the famous ARC-5 of WWII fame.
Just where you got the idea that a high-power triode, the 572B, replaced a medium-power pentode is, perhaps, from outer space. Totally off base, perhaps a 'cigar-dream', as usual.
The 572B is, in reality, a higher power version of the 811A. It had the same pin-out, but quite a bit higher plate voltage and corresponding plate dissipation. Four of those puppies will yield in excess of the legal limit and are still used in amplifiers of current manufacture. Some folks who complained about he additional cost of each 572B have even 'down-converted' amplifiers back to the much cheaper 811A, by reducing the plate voltage.
Now, the 6146 was a tetrode, not a pentode, as was the 807. Its primary attribute was a much smaller, more rugged package and higher plate dissipation. Popular in amateur gear as well as in VHF mobile radios in its 12.6V filament version.
Lee
W6EM
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 25, 2006
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811A's weren't a particularly 'attractive' sight when lit up, but a much larger triode, the 304-TL sure was.
Each tube had four sections internally paralleled, and looked like a Christmas tree (or Hannukah bush) when lit up. It consumed 5V @ 30Amps just to light it up. So, a couple of them would keep you warm, even without plate voltage and signal applied.
Although I never finished my amp project,(based on 4 of them) I had a nice boat anchor, a 5V, 120A filament transformer, the filament busses, and 4 tubes for quite some time. Legal limit amp? Well, yes, coasting.
Lee
W6EM
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 25, 2006
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"Just where you got the idea that a high-power triode, the 572B, replaced a medium-power pentode is, perhaps, from outer space. Totally off base, perhaps a 'cigar-dream', as usual. "
---------------------------------------
Again Lee, your comments are irrelevant to my statements and LACKING IN MERIT.
Just as the FCC said about your BPL petition: LACKING IN MERIT.
I didn't say AMPLIFIER STAGES , I said AMPLIFIERS.
Many hams in the mid,late 50's and early 60's built 807 amplifiers to go QRO, because the parts were cheap from surplus, and TV transformers could be used. There were SOME 811A amps, and even 3-400Z or 3cx-1000 amps, but the first real penetration of AMPLIFIERS were the commercially available KITS, the Hunter Bandit (3-400z tube) and the SB200 (572B tubes) circa 1966. The SB200 was far and away a huge seller.
No 811A's there...
Then the cheap SB-220 came out, with 3-500Z's, and it was all over; there were 5 times more SB-220's than anything else.
See? My memory is quite clear.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 25, 2006
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I'm sure glad that eHam doesn't allow you to edit postings to cover your tracks. Hahahaha.
The 572B was an outgrowth of the 811A, actually. Nothing at all relevant to the 807.
Amplifiers, not amplifier stages? What a convoluted attempt to erase your error by confusing folks.
811As were around when 807s were and were widely used as linear amplifier tubes. Lots of other tubes too. 807s were NEVER the heart of a supplementary linear amplifier. Only finals in transmitters. Singly, or in pairs. Just like 572Bs were never used as finals in transmitters. Only in supplementary, stand-alone, linear amplifiers. Probably because of their envelope size, significantly higher plate voltage, and additional transformer cost.
Tubes like the 304TL, 250TH, 4-400, and 4-1000 were popular linear amplifier tubes in the earlier days. Never 807s. Then, of course, besides the glass envelope 572B, the 3-500Z came along for cheaper-to-make grounded-grid amps. And, some of the larger ceramic triodes and tetrodes that we still use today in gounded cathode designs where more gain was the object. The 4CX ceramic tetrode series (250 and up) was even popular in the mid '60s. Eitel McCullough was just down the road from my work QTH.
Oh, sure, guys like Jo Emmett Jennings of Jennings Radio, (RIP, ex-W6EGV) and fellow AF-MARS member, had then-innovative concepts of paralleling larger numbers of tubes in transmitter finals to lower the output impedance to 50 Ohms and provide broadband matching, but, besides that, well, nothing much. And, in the early sixties, his concept suggested 6146's, not 807s.
Stick to your telescopes, loud mouth, where you may have some credible knowledge.
73,
Lee
W6EM
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 25, 2006
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LACKING IN MERIT
How does that tag line feel Lee?
73,
Chip W1YW
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 25, 2006
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Here's an interesting discussion of 807 amplifiers which affirms my comments:
http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/amps/2003-March/034632.html
I remember visiting W1JNV many times and seeing his 807 (think it had 8 tubes) amplifier. He had it as a backup for his 4cx2500 (?) (could be the wrong number) home brew amp,which had a transformer the size of Buick. Apparently he used the 807 amp exclusively in the 50's. Then he used his (potentially) illegal 3KW+ jobbie to break pileups by the time I got licensed.
I sure miss Al. Quite a character.
73,
Chip W1YW
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by TG9AKH on August 25, 2006
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Are you guys suggesting that those amps could have created the "radio blackout"?
Or are we still off subject? Are we DELIBERATELY off subject? That is, have we been led to a dead end discussion in an attempt to make us forget what the original subject was i.e., ham radio blackout?
And if so, who is behind this EHAM DISCUSSION JAMMING? Could this also be part of a campaign orchestrated by one or more well-known intelligence agencies?
We are actually witnessing EHAM DISCUSSION JAMMING. Who benefits and who loses? Could opponents actually be on the same side, that is, on the side of those whose interests would be hurt if a deeper discussion, even an in investigation, ever took place concerning a "radio blackout"?
I say let's push the boundaries of paranoia a bit further, as we must be aware that those who have the power to jam a broad portion of RF spectrum would also seek to hinder, sabbotage, obstruct, derail and ultimately put an end to any and all discussions concerning that very subject.
Great. Now we've got plenty of gas, loads of flammable material and a deep desire to get to the bottom of it all!!! Does anyone have some psycho-matches? Any volunteers? Go light up boys--you've got nothing to lose but your sanity!!!
:-)
Mario TH9AKH
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 25, 2006
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Well how about it, Mario? Are you still getting the interference now that peace (!) has broken out in Lebanon?
73s, John AE6RO
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 25, 2006
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Chip: The trouble with buying American is that you really aren't.
For instance, if you buy a Dodge you are actually buying a Daimler-Benz.
If you buy and Aveo from GM, you are buying a Japanese car made by Suzuki.
Your Caddy probably has lots and lots of parts made overseas, or in Mexico, or wherever the lowest bidder lives.
But I know what you mean about big vs. small cars. I used to have a Chevy Geo (made by Suzuki for GM) and it got really good mileage with its 3 cylinder engine, about 40 MPG. But it was so tiny I got worried about the loonies in their Big SUVs so I got a pickup truck.
807 tubes could be used in a high-power amplifier if you use enough of them. But they had a reputation for oscillating at all sorts of different frequencies than the desired one, which is why I would use a 6146 in a "new" old design.
73, John AE6RO
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 25, 2006
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Well how about this: BPL is actually a well-orchestrated means of jamming HF radio without calling it jamming.
However, it seems the NTIA weighed in against BPL so it probably won't be a problem. 73, John AE6RO
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 25, 2006
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TG9AKH, Mario said:
"And if so, who is behind this EHAM DISCUSSION JAMMING? Could this also be part of a campaign orchestrated by one or more well-known intelligence agencies?"
I guess, Mario, it is possible. After all, the Chipster, W1YW, tried to shut down the discussion after it was mentioned that it might just have been Zionist military units doing their thing. And, when that didn't work, he then accused several here of being anti-Semitic, to try to shame us into ceasing any discussion about the incident or the technology.
As to someone here in the US being an agent, of sorts, for the Mossad, well, there are probably lots of them. Very likely. And, in our government too. Like that guy Pollard who used to be with the CIA, and got caught.
Got to snicker about one example that popped up. One of my daughter's high school friends was into equestrian stuff. Calf roping, as I recall. Just so happened that we heard he had coached the Israeli equestrian team. While it didn't make him a spy, he was, technically, an agent for the government of Israel. Perhaps he should have registered with the State Department. Ha.
73,
Lee
W6EM
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 25, 2006
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W1YW, in one of his most ACCURATE claims said this:
"FYI, there are no 'Zionists' and haven't been any since the founding of the state of Israel in the late 1940's.
It is used predominantly today by Islamic fascists and anti-Jewish groups. So please don't use it unless there is some anti-semitic message you are conveying.
You may be doubly unwilling to use it in this form because 'Zion' means 'male organ' in Hebrew. The historical notion of formation of Israel is related to 'Tsion-ism'.
If you are Jewish and hear someone say 'ZY-ON-ist', it is like saying you're climbing the GRAND TETONS to someone from Paris---that is, rather goofy and mildly idiotic.
Just so you know.
73,
Chip W1YW
(ex N1IR)"
Now, here's what the Jewish Virtual Library had to say with respect to Zionist activity. Shows just how ACCURATE Dr. Cohen was...........
"Pollard also petitioned the Israeli Supreme Court to be recognized as a Prisoner of Zion in the hope that such status would win support for him to improve his prison conditions and stimulate a campaign for his release. The Court rejected his petition on January 16, 2006, however, because a Prisoner of Zion is defined as someone who was imprisoned "because of his Zionist activity in a country where such activity was illegal." Supreme Court President Aharon Barak said typical Zionist activity would include teaching Hebrew and encouraging aliyah, but "it cannot be said that an act of espionage on behalf of Israel constitutes Zionist activity ‘in a country where Zionist activity is prohibited,'he wrote. "The act of spying, including spying for Israel, is prohibited in the U.S. as it is in all countries.""
Ref. www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K8MHZ on August 26, 2006
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"Your Caddy probably has lots and lots of parts made overseas, or in Mexico, or wherever the lowest bidder lives."
"The CTS, to retail at 518,000 yuan (US$62,560), and Cadillac SRX sports utility will be assembled at GM's joint venture in Shanghai at the end of this year with imported kits, marking the first Cadillac production outside of the United States."
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K4RAF on August 26, 2006
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"If the Zionists don't have one of their own, they probably borrowed one from us. After all, where do you think they're getting the satellite intelligence for targeting Hezbullah missle launchers?"
From the far superior electronics IMI (Israeli Military Industries) put aboard their US made aircraft, domestic drones & domestic satellites. Infrared is standard optics on & above the battlefield, from NATO on down... Only the UN leaves their IR powered off & their weapons unloaded.
IMI had jamming drones in the early 1970's. The 1990's version had DC-daylight jamming aboard. Some of the RF amplifiers were made here in the US & were simply awesome.
Dead killers can't kill again... I just wish the US had half the balls militarily that the Israelis have displayed. They know how to cover their own bacon (kosher of course), regardless of anyone's opinion. It all started over kidnapping of just 1 soldier. Anyone here in the US even remember who Matt Maupin was?
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 26, 2006
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Jonathon Pollard worked for Naval Intelligence, not the dread CIA.
Perhaps you are thinking of Rick Ames. He received life in prison also. He worked for the CIA and the KGB at the same time!
Chip, I was wondering what you thought about the fact that when Jonathon Pollard tried to take refuge in the Israeli embassy, they threw him out into the tender mercies of the FBI? After all he did for them?
73, John
Hey Mario, there's your match!
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 26, 2006
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Now I am curious: who was, or is Matt Maupin?
AS far as kosher bacon goes, the recent incident in Lebanon reminds me more of the Marco Polo Bridge incident in China in 1936.
73s, John AE6RO
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K4RAF on August 26, 2006
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Matt Maupin was the first Marine or Marine Reservist (from Ohio as I recall) who was kidnapped by those Zarqawi lead blood thirsty bastards in Iraq. Did we step up the destruction, carpet bomb, cluster bomb or otherwise & force them to cough him up, dead or alive?
No, we were so fn worried about 'collateral damage' to civilians, he was never recovered & still remains unaccounted for (or at least to my knowledge). This was over 2 years ago. Al-Sadr still walks freely, so much so, he is now part of the parliment... there was an active warrant for murder against him for killing another cleric?
All is fair in love, lust & warfare... Jamming is just part of the game, "RF Smackdown"... Ask any marine who served in Faluja about "black flagging". RF-free signals that our troops were approaching (from rooftop to rooftop). I know 4 guys who still have "issues" over the mental tension experienced when they saw that signal used. Safety [OFF], full-auto [ON], clips [LOADED]...
God Bless those who serve, unconditionally, faithfully & sometimes give the ultimate sacrifice for we who bitch, sometime only miles from a warzone...
I, for one, honor & salute your selflessness for the ingrates amongst US....
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 26, 2006
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Thanks for info about Matt Maupin. No-one asked me if we should go to war in Iraq or not.
I did a quick Internet search about Matt Maupin and his kidnappers said they had shot him to death, in the head. There isn't any proof so they don't know for sure.
Plenty of Iraqi civilians have died in the war, including children. In the eyes of God we are all equals.
In case you were curious about the Marco Polo Bridge incident, it provided a reason for the Empire of Japan to invade China, well before Pearl Harbor.
73z, John AE6RO
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by W6EM on August 26, 2006
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AE6RO Said:
"Jonathon Pollard worked for Naval Intelligence, not the dread CIA.
Perhaps you are thinking of Rick Ames. He received life in prison also. He worked for the CIA and the KGB at the same time!
Chip, I was wondering what you thought about the fact that when Jonathon Pollard tried to take refuge in the Israeli embassy, they threw him out into the tender mercies of the FBI? After all he did for them?"
Ah, yes, you are right. I slipped. I don't want to emulate our sans-Zionist friend from Massachussets, though, and not 'fess-up.'
Perhaps if he were to take the most obtuse of his definitions to the Israeli Supreme Court, I'd be willing to bet he'd be found guilty of defaming Zion. What a pity.
As to what his sponsors did before the FBI, that doesn't surprise me. After all, they want to keep military equipment purchases moving smoothly.
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by W1YW on August 27, 2006
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IMO, what started out as a 'gee, what weird interference' discussion has become a 'hams are idiots with too much time on their hands' stream of consciousness with anti-semiticism, discursive jamming comments, and goofy speculations.
My, my....
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by K8MHZ on August 27, 2006
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Chip,
Ya gotta admit, it's better than lamenting ad nauseum about our liver and colon problems :)
I for one found the thread to be very informative both on and off topic.
Granted, digression crept in but is that not inevitable here on eHam? There is knowledge here to gain and perhaps the most valuable is the honest presentation of viewpoints from a politically and technically mixed group.
The thread is entertaining as well.
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RE: Ham Radio Blackout
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by AE6RO on August 27, 2006
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Chip: It is fact that Jonathon Pollard sought refuge at the Israeli embassy in Washington, DC. and they THREW HIM OUT! The FBI immediately arrested him and his wife. Not speculation but fact, and "facts are stubborn things."
Another interesting tidbit is his wife suffered from an odd stomach illness. The doctors medicated her the day before which slowed him down a great deal.
I read his biography but can't remember the title. But the author's last name is Wolfe.
Even the USSR granted asylum to its "friends." And if you don't take care of your friends you don't have them for long.
73, John AE6RO
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by KD5VHK on August 27, 2006
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Manos,
I'm sorry you have had your post polluted by all this typical american garbage.
You had a legitimate question and posted it well, only to have it twisted into something that has nothing to do with the topic. And that wholly suits what "they" want to talk about.
This is what most americans do to everything they get their hands on.
Once again, Sorry . And I hope you get your questions answered.
To all you other "psycos, nut bars, idiots, wastes of time", which ever best describes you, GET A LIFE.
You are an embarrassment to yourselves, and the rest of OUR country.
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Ham Radio Blackout
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by WU5E on August 28, 2006
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well of these are using in some battlefields
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/an-vlq-9.htm
it's called the warlock
Jim
wu5e/yi9
defending freedom and the heart of the lion
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