Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

eHam.net Home | FAQ | Log In Help | Please Subscribe

Welcome Anonymous Become a member or Login

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

Allan Kush (WV7R) on August 28, 2006
View comments about this article!

Hi...

I would appreciate only those hams that DO NOT currently volunteer any of their time for ARES, RACES or public service events to answer this posting. Anecdotal stories by those who are already volunteers is not what I am looking for, so I ask you to respectfully not post a reply here.

If you are a licensed ham and do not currently volunteer time to help in your local communities, I would appreciate knowing why. Do you not have time for volunteer work of any kind? Do you not have time for monthly training meetings? Do you not know whom to contact to express your willingness to help out?

IF regular training meetings is one of the primary reasons you do not have time to volunteer with a local, credentialed team, would you have time for and be willing to work a parade, a bike ride or some other community event once or twice a year?

Any information would be appreciated. We in the public service community are interested in how to get more hams involved in their local communities, and would be appreciative of being able to identify some of the impediments that may exist to potential volunteers coming forward. Thanks for your help!

Member Comments:

This article has expired. No more comments may be added.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KX8N on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Nobody seems to have the time. You can't get people in to club meetings, test sessions, even helping out with the hamfest once a year. You've got a few hams that work on all that, and nobody else wants to help out at all.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB9CRY on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Do you not have time for volunteer work of any kind?

Yes I do not have (make that) make the time for volunteer work as described.

Do you not have time for monthly training meetings?

I have too many other monthly meetings to attend now.

Do you not know whom to contact to express your willingness to help out?

Yes I know who I'd contact.

IF regular training meetings is one of the primary reasons you do not have time to volunteer with a local, credentialed team, would you have time for and be willing to work a parade, a bike ride or some other community event once or twice a year?

Yes maybe.

I don't feel any requirement or desire to volunteer my time in the manner described. I volunteer my time to other amateur radio related activities.

Phil KB9CRY

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N0IU on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

You seem to have left out one of the more obvious reasons why amateur radio operators do not volunteer their time to work with emergency communications agencies or public service events. The reason I don't do this is because I am simply not interested in that particular aspect of amateur radio.

It almost seems as if you are saying that it is an expectation that anyone with an amateur radio license is expected to volunteer to work with their local EmComm agency, bike-a-thon, walk-a-thon, whatever-a-thon event and if you don't you better have a good reason and if you don't, you should feel guilty for not doing so.

NEWS FLASH: Not everyone gets into amateur radio to provide public service communications. While it is certainly one of the more noble and worthwhile purposes of our HOBBY, it is by no means the sole purpose for its existence. It is possible to have a very rich and fulfilling amateur radio experience without ever working tactical communications for your town's founders day parade.

Scott N0IU

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB9RQZ on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

you realy want to know?

well frankly one rarely feels like "volunteering" for abuse. first one has has to take inane "classes", then maybe if you drop someone a line they may condessend to return your call. If you get past that then when if you get invited to one of the exercises you the new guy will get dumped nto the "problem" area of the county, and explintly insulted if you don't manage to shine there

I have been done that and not even gotten the tshirt passed oout to the rest back in illinois when I first got licensed

here at the new location finding out what is planed before it happens is succh barrair as to prevent further investagtion. the local st up for ARES seems merely disjionted over actively hostile

I went though that <please choose the vilest explective of yourchoice for this blank> because I thought I kinda owed the nation that set aside the spectrum for what I like to do. Fly RC aricraft (and play with the internal eletronicssome send my FS-ATV system into to flight that Like seeing but my stomach can't handle, working with satelites, etc

after the FCC drops code testing and I get to spend some time exploring the new spectrum I may look over this issue again, but frankly the treatment I have received as a Tech has not made me eager to volunteer

any more questions on the subject well if you like you contact me at kb9rqz@amsat.org

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W2RDD on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

When I was first licensed, I volunteered a couple years during spring flood season on a rising-river watch. Just my HT to the local repeater NCS guy. Stationed myself near a lock walking distance from home and gave accurately measured river level readings from time-to-time. Uncomplicated but effective procedure.

Now, it seems, I repeat, it seems, everything is super organized. Must be schooled in procedures, attend regular classes, be equipped head to toe with accoutrements. Alphabet soup organizations. Phooey!

Anyway, I am away half the year now so couldn't participate, even if I wanted to.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by AI2IA on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

"...but frankly the treatment I have received as a Tech has not made me eager to volunteer."

Readers of these posts take note of this response. If hams continue to treat new hams this way, and experienced hams, too, then, like Satan's Kingdom, they are divided against themselves, and therein you find the answer to the problem.

I am a qualified VE with two VECs. I used to be very active. Now age and health limit my activity. I could still do more, but I don't. Why? Because when you are an active volunteer you are on a sliding slope. You constantly have to resist aggressively the plans of others to dump more and more volunteer work on you. I used to be good at cheerful resistance to this exploitation, but with age, I can't keep up with the fight anymore. I limit myself to here and there spots where I pitch in with the exams.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K7JQ on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Personally, I would like to volunteer for bike races, parades, emergency preparedness, and attend monthly club meetings. Unfortunately, I have to work for a living. Being a COMMISSIONED retail sales rep (no work...no pay), I have to work evenings and weekends, when MOST people have time to shop. These are also times when bike races, marathons, parades, meetings, etc are scheduled to take place. My two days off during the week do not coincide with the meeting times of the two clubs I would like to join. Kinda between a rock and a hard place when it comes to volunteer work. People have their own schedules, families, other personal commitments that take precedence over volunteer work and leisurely activities. Not everyone is retired, part-time workers, or have flexible schedules that permit them to do volunteer work during idle time available.

There you have it....different strokes for different folks. Perhaps when, and if, I retire....

73, Bob, K7JQ

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K0BG on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I have a different slant on this.

The reason I don't get involved is due to a personality conflict with the local EC. This very type of problem was brought up in an article about a year ago on these very pages.

Lots of folks (you included I can only assume) do this sort of work because they like to. I've done my share over the years, or at least I feel that I have.

Some folks do it as if it was a duty every amateur operator should undertake. I agree this view maybe moot.

Then there are the others who do it strictly for the fame. Quite unfortunately, far too many "volunteers" fall into this category, and make the first two types look bad.

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N4ZOU on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I quit that when the president of one of the local repeater clubs ripped me off for a large and expensive antenna tuner loaned for use by the club for an emergency. The vice president of the club was kind enough to remove it from the president's shack and returned it too me 9 months later along with stolen equipment of other disabled hams. No telling how much other stuff went to Ebay before anyone found out what a thief he was. Radio equipment is simply too expensive to be hauling it around and having it damaged or stolen. This is after all a hobby so let the professionals handle emergencies. Thats the current attitude of federal and local agencies.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K3UD on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

"after the FCC drops code testing and I get to spend some time exploring the new spectrum I may look over this issue again, but frankly the treatment I have received as a Tech has not made me eager to volunteer

any more questions on the subject well if you like you contact me at kb9rqz@amsat.org"

Why is it the code that is hanging you up from volunteering now? Why are you waiting on the FCC to drop the code test as a condition of getting active with your local encomm group? Most local emergency communications activity will take place on the bands that you are already licensed for.

As a former member of Civil Defense ham radio liason (25 years) and a present RACES op and SKYWARN affiliate I can tell you that it does not take up a whole lot of time.

73
George
K3UD

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KE3HO on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Several years ago I contacted the local RACES coordinator expressing an interest in joining so I could volunteer my time to help out. He said that he was grateful that I wanted to volunteer because, for some reason, they could not get people to sign up for the RACES team. He sent me an application in the mail. I began filling out the application. Section 1 was the usual - name, address, phone number, etc. Section 2 asked for Social Security Number as well as other personal and financial information that they really should not have needed. I stopped filling in the form, but continued to read on just to see what else they wanted. Section 4 (or maybe 5) was a BLANKET WAIVER (all caps intentional) - it said something to the effect that I was releasing from ANY and ALL liability the county, any county employee, and any RACES team member, resulting from any use, official or unofficial, or disclosure of any information that I have given them. I contacted the RACES coordinator again and asked him if he had read the waiver on the application, and asked if anyone had actually been dumb enough to sign one? He said that he had not read the waiver, that it was a new form since he had joined. He read the waiver and said, "I didn't realize they had that on there. I wouldn't sign that either. I wonder if that is why nobody ever returns an application?" He said that he would take the matter up with the county emergency coordinator in charge and see if they could revise the waiver. He said that he would send me a new application after the waiver had been toned down to something reasonable. I never heard from him again.

Of course, now just volunteering your time and services is not enough. First you have to take a bunch of classes to become certified to be a volunteer.

73 - Jim

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KT8K on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I am available if needed, but gave up being volunteering gradually over the past decade, mostly due to increased requirements on volunteers (training, certifications, red tape, etc.), but also discouraged by the minority of volunteers who take the whole thing far too seriously and/or seem to need to use amateur radio volunteer activity to make themselves important.

I could give the specific reasons I don't volunteer any more, but don't want to aggravate the people responsible ... contact me directly if you really want to know.
73 de kt8k - Tim

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K0CBA on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

As long as the "communities" tells hams NO ANTENNAS, I say, volunteer?... well, not just no but hell no.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KG6WLS on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

To some, I've only been a licensed ham since breakfast yesterday morning. However, I've only volunteered for two FD events on set-up and tear down. I volunteered my time with my 11 year old son in tow because I wanted to learn (including him) how to set up for these events. It was quite fun to say the least. Also, our club has promoted all mode 6 meter activity here locally, and a far. I suppose VHF/UHF simplex had its usefulness during our 2003 firestorm in CA. If I was licensed back then, I most likely would have volunteered for emergency communications. Instead, I was towing portable generators to radio sites, temp power for FEMA, and anywhere as needed for the County of SD driving through the fires. It made me feel better that I was on site helping others.

As far as I'm concerned volunteer means just that. Volunteer! To me, our priorities revolve more around work, family, and school, THEN comes radio. IMHO

We'll see if my tune changes after I take my test to upgrade my privs' this weekend. ;-)

73
Mike

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KC0SHZ on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

The lack of volunteerism is a concern that every ham should consider. It is that volunteerism that gives us the history of pitching in in a crisis or doing something that avoids a crisis. The larger society could view us like a bunch of strange old men huddled over their gadgets, (and cut us off from legal enforcement of our rights like other fringe hobbies) but they don't. The larger society could be quietly regulating us to death like other hobbies (ie: geocaching), but they aren't. They aren't because unlike geocachers, we don't go tromping around people's land looking for caches. We do our thing and help people in the process.

That said, there are legitimate reasons to not volunteer. People get asked at the last minute, they get guilt tripped to do something at the last minute, they get into political situations with other hams, the list can go on and on.

If ARES and RACES aren't for you, how about bike rides? Last summer, I did a bike ride that ended in a heat advisory with a number of cyclists quite ill. Had it not been for the Hams at waterstop 6, the number of heat exhaustion cases would have been enormous. They pitched in and made shade and a cool environment that allowed endangered riders to cool down and rehydrate before getting into trouble.

The point of volunteering is to use our skills to help people. We did, big time. At a bike ride. No politics, no regulations, no red tape, just ice, a tarp, some rope two ham trucks, and couple of spare antenna poles. Without them, we would have had a dozen riders in the hospital that weekend.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KD6NIG on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I don't simply because of my work schedule. When you go from a typical 40 hour week to 52+ (some weeks 60+) your priorities change.

Its not that I didn't help out before, but now I don't simply because life comes first. Work, then family demands, and with more work now, the family portion takes a bit more of the remainder.

If I ever get back to a normal 40 hour week, I'll reconsider, but right now, especially during the week, sleep is about the the only other commodity I seek when I'm not working.

Plainly put: if volenteering for something to get a licence was required, I would have had to relinquish my grant about 6 months ago.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by VA3SAX on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I have a similar problem to another ham who posted here. I am a student full time and what spare time I do have goes towards working so that I can actually manage to afford my hobby. and the other times I volunteer for the bike races and whatnot...not as communications but for St John Ambulance to provide medical care...I'd say it'd be pretty crummy system if we had all this communications but we couldn't help anyone because we needed people who have emergency medical skills

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB9CRY on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

From the many previous posts, you've seen why folks don't volunteer.

It's not required.
They have no interest.
They've tried it and weren't treated professionally or civily.
The requirements were too much.
They just don't have the time.

The lack of volunteerism is a concern that every ham should consider.

I don't have any issues. If the bike-a-thon needs communications, then they always can arrange for that themselves. I do agree with the publicity it gives for amateur radio, to a point. I wouldn't want the public to think that's all we do and that's our only purpose in life. And, I don't feel our service will suffer if we don't do it. I could start rambling about sailboat racing or dog showing but most of you will not be interested in that so I don't do it. If you are interested in that, then you will seek me out. The same for amateur radio; most folks are not interested in that so I don't see the need to advertise.

What I do sense is that some of you are trying to lay a guilt trip on those that don't volunteer. That, IMO, is not a good way to entice folks to volunteer. You need to learn to coddle and cajole them and treat them special. Just human nature and you're dealing with humans.

Phil

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KA3CTQ on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Who said that we are not volunteering? Just because we are not doing it with our radios does not mean that we are not participating in the community.

I have in the past operated and participated in special events. I will still as I can fit it into my schedule. But, I volunteer for many things in my area that radio is not the top of the list.

I am helping out with schools, teaching religious education at church, coaching and assisting in sports leagues, Boys and Girls Scouts, and helping out in other youth programs. My priority is my kids and the other youth in the area.

Don't get me wrong, I have not forsaken radio. I have tried to incorporate it into the other groups. I have offered my time and shack to any scout who wants to work on a badge. I even invited all the neighborhood kids (and there are alot of them) to work on the radio in June on Kids Day.

Just because we all don't spend days on end in training classes does not mean that we are not volunteering. Making a kids life a little better is my way of giving back. I didn't need to be told how to do that.

Dan
KA3CTQ

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB3NWJ on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I am a newly re-licenced ham, and did so to become active in emergency communications.

Correct me if I am wrong, but although HAM radio is an excellent hobby, the original intention when formed was to have emergency communications.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KR6DJ on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

The primary reason that I got into ham radio was to enjoy a hobby. There are enough facets to amateur radio that participants can pick and choose what interests them.

I personally don't have any current interest in ARES, RACES, and so forth and therefore don't have a desire to participate.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W3LK on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Personally, I resent this attitude that public service is the most important aspect of amateur radio and if you don't volunteer to do walks, bike-a-thons, ARES, RACES and all the rest somehow you are failing your community and amateur radio.

Public service communications is simply ONE aspect of amateur radio and not every ham is interested. Public service communications REQUIRES a committment of time and resources, a committment to periodic training and drills that many hams are not willing to make. Whether anyone thinks this is right or wrong is immaterial - many hams can't or won't make that committment and it's THEIR CHOICE! No ham has any right to denigrate any other ham for his non-participation in an aspect of amateur radio for which he has no interest.

More damage is done to amateur radio, in the long run, by insisting that public service is all that matters and selling this nonsense to new hams than could ever be done by changes in licensing requirements. Amateur radio existed long before the concept of public service came about and it will be here when some other radio fad takes over for public service.

I know this sounds strange coming from a disaster response professional, but as a regional EDS director for one of the major served agencies I would rather have a half-dozen COMMITTED hams respond to my request for communications assistance than three dozen guys who show up because some misguided person convinced them they weren't real hams unless they volunteered to help my (or any other) agency.

Lon - W3LK
Baltimore, Maryland

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB9CRY on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Correct me if I am wrong, but although HAM radio is an excellent hobby, the original intention when formed was to have emergency communications.

My understanding is as follows.

In the beginning, WE were radio. We invented it. Then some of us branched off to make money in broadcasting. Then the FCC was formed to make some sense of the bands. The Amateur Service was given rules to operate on but we were already there prior to the FCC. The FCC understood the value that we had in that we knew how to operate our radios (back then we had to build and tweak our own radios) and had experience in communicating (we knew the code and were experienced in communications). Remember this was just as commercial radio was coming in existence. The FCC knew that we could be called upon in times of emergencies to help out in communications. Many of did and have; some used their skills in the two World Wars and other conflicts.

Fast forward to present days. Transceivers can be bought from a catalog and anyone could be taught to press the mike switch and start talking. The radios of today are maintenance free and do not take any technical skill to operate. And with the myriad of public & emergency services, there's less need for us to step to the fore during an emergency. But as seen, our communication skills still are useful.

They're just not and never have been the sole reason for our existence.

Phil

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W0IPL on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I'm sorry if this is not strictly to the authors request but I see a
very common thread in many of the replies that needs to be answered.
Many say, in essence, I'm not treated nicely enough when I volunteer.

Let me address that. What would YOU do if you were the person with the
experience that had just finished with the eighth or tenth "newbie"
that came in like a little puppy (tail wagging, over active, over
enthusiastic) wanting to "help" that disappeared after the second
event. YOU as the person that expended ten or twenty hours on each one
nurturing these people only to have them walk away. YOU as the person
that contacted them, only to find out that "it takes too much time"
or even "it was not as much fun as I thought it would be".

After eight or ten in a row, what would YOU do with the next one? I'm
sure that many will say "treat every one like the first", because you
have such and endless amount of time to expend with no productive
result. Each of you whine about not having enough time yet you expect
the people with the knowledge and experience to waste their time
training at least nine out of ten that will leave before becoming
effective.

How can you expect others to do what you will not?

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB9CRY on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

that came in like a little puppy (tail wagging, over active, over enthusiastic) wanting to "help" that disappeared after the second event.

This attrition rate should be expected.

Each of you whine about not having enough time yet you expect the people with the knowledge and experience to waste their time training at least nine out of ten that will leave before becoming effective.

This is also to be expected. Personally I have no desire to volunteer and do volunteer to my community as well as to Amateur Radio in other ways.

Remember that I mentioned you're dealing with humans. All of the above phenomena is very understandable. I'd suggest that you emergency trainers talk to school teachers and learn from them on how they deal with enthusiastic students who soon lose focus and desire yet still put on the happy face each and every day.

There is no excuse for not treating each and every volunteer with professionalism and civility. If you can't do that then you have no reason to be training them.

Maybe you all need to rethink your methods and training requirements to better utilize the two time and their out folks. If there's no place for them, then don't let them even get close and find a way to pre-screen applicants so you only train those that really want to help and are committed.

Guilt trips aren't the way to develop this bond.

Phil

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by WB2WIK on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I cut my teeth being a RACES-CD operator as a kid, even before I had a ham license. We participated in drills using the ham call sign of the CD Radio Officer and only had Radiotelephone Operator Permits (3rd Class Commercial) licenses, which required no test and had no minimum age limit. We used the ham bands, but legitimately only for CD/RACES drills or actual disaster events. I attended weekly training for years, and once actually participated in a real disaster event (local flood), using the "skills" learned by RACES training.

Years later I determined for myself those skills sucked. Way too burdened with protocol, took too long to handle any message. Nobody really knew how to operate in an emergency. Everybody was into writing messages down on paper, which of course takes forever, or relying on TTY (teletype) for printed copy, based on the old Teletype machines which were electromechanical and could only print 60 wpm. I can type much faster than that, so I could type days ahead of the silly machine.

Obviously technology has vastly improved on that last part!

But the first part, which is "voice" operations, haven't changed much over all these years. I still hear the drills using the same protocol we used 40 years ago, and it's still way too slow and burdensome.

In a "real" emergency event, the Johnstown, PA floods of 1977-78, I happened to be not far away in Philadelphia when news came they needed radio operators to help get traffic in and out of the disaster area. Phone lines were down because utility poles were down all over the place. I figured I was only a couple hours away, so decided to drive out there to see how I could help.

There was already well coordinated efforts going on. I didn't have HF mobile at the time, but did have 2m and 70cm FM mobile and portable gear in the car and checked in with one of the control ops to offer services. He gladly accepted and I ended up being there three days, sleeping in somebody's trailer (who I didn't know) and eating donuts and coffee. We handled a *lot* of traffic.

What I remember more than anything else was how blown away the control ops were at how I was handling traffic. Not writing anything down, committing messages to memory, and operating at ten times the speed of all their trained operators. In one 8-hour period, I think they clocked me as handling 325 messages. Their trained operators were chugging along at maybe 50-100 in the same time period.

Difference was I was an experienced contester at this point, used to making 3-4-5 contacts per minute and getting all the data straight without having to write anything down. I'd retain it and then punch it in later, as I was making the next contact. I'm very convinced this is far better training than any of the "traffic handlers" had been exposed to, which is why they were so slow.

I remember chuckling as I was listening to the local repeaters, driving away from the site and heading back home, as guys were talking about, "Who was that visiting W2 operator? Geesh, I've never seen anything like that." It was cute.

I might get involved again one day in volunteer services as time permits, but I hated the "system" used for operator training, and a single voice cannot be heard amongst hundreds already indoctrinated in silly habits. So, I gave up years ago -- but one never knows...

WB2WIK/6

Ask a club officer or an Emcom manager.

by AI2IA on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Go ask those hams who manage the volunteers, such as club officers, and Emcom managers. The fact is that people come in with the best of intentions, perhaps also with the wrong expectations, but how these guys manage their volunteer people makes it or breaks it. It is these managers who hold the answer. I don't have to list the do's and don'ts for these guys. It is all common sense.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by WR1H on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Work schedule is very restrictive, and what free time I have, I choose to spend with my children and wife, and the activities that they participate in.

I also travel a lot for work and it makes my time with my family even more important than volunteering for Ham radio.

Maybe when I retire, I will then have the time and strength to give back, but right now, I cannot.

RE: Ask a club officer or an Emcom manager.

by KB9CRY on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

The following was picked off of the ARRL's Public Service website.
Being knowledgable of the subject matter does not make one a good trainer/teacher. Those are very special skills that not all of us possess.

SOME THINGS THAT DON'T WORK
Whining about quantity or quality of volunteers.
Harping on how it was back in the old days.
Boring official-speak, alphabet soup, and gobbledygook.
Self-importance, showing off.
Impatience with beginners.
We have all met this kind of leader ... who complains all the time ... who tries to impress us with jargon and name-dropping ... who has no time for newcomers. Maybe we have even been guilty of some of these mistakes ourselves! If we find ourselves doing these things, we need to make ourselves stop it.

SOME THINGS THAT DO WORK
Understand our own and others' motivations, needs.
Be creative in outreach. Use all available media.
Be generous in giving credit, praise, thanks.
Welcome beginners.
Provide practical, interesting training experiences.

WHAT WORKS BEST

Being the kind of leaders whom

WE

would want to follow!

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W4MEC on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I concur with N0IU. I have no interest in volunteering to provide communications. This is just a radio hobby for me, and I enjoy all aspects of the radio/antenna end of the game. If you love to volunteer your time and radio, fine with me. If you think because I don't volunteer, I am somehow less worthy to be an Amateur Radio Operator, thats a problem in your head. Have I ever had the need to contact an emergency station? No. Have I handled emergency situations via ham radio? Yes. And I didn't need a disaster trained expert on the other end to handle the traffic either. Have I had to deal with any emergency situations? Yes. Flood, blizzards, downed power lines and extended loss of power, hurricanes and tornadoes. If you think emergency communications provided by ham radio is and should be the only thing that gives worth to the service, then we are all in trouble.

Charlie in NC

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K4UUG on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

KB9RQZ I agree with you.Did you know any amateur class can join MARS and operate on HF nets.
How to Join Army MARS

Eligibility

The applicant must -

Be 17 years of age or older. (Signature of parent or legal guardian is required when an applicant is under 18 years of age.)
Be a United States Citizen or resident alien. (Possess a valid amateur radio license of any class issued by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) or other competent U.S. Authority.)
Possess a station capable of operating on MARS VHF and/or HF frequencies.
Agree to operate a minimum of 12 hours per calendar quarter with 6 hours being on VHF and or HF networks.

http://www.asc.army.mil/mars/join.htm

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N8QBY on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

To many ego's to contend with. As a matter of fact, the original poster kind of comes off as having an attitude, if someone isn't in to volunteering. Just an observation.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB9YZL on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Well, ……..the reason I obtained an ARS license in the first place was because I was involved with my local community’s Severe Weather Preparedness Program, and the local SKYWARN net.

It seems as though the majority of contributors to this thread all have reasons for NOT participating in Public Service.

To those people, I ask:

“What do you do to merit the valuable bandwidth that is granted to you? ………….or do you just have a “right” to it; ….like so many other things the “Gimme Generation” takes for granted???”

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K1CJS on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

You ask 'why'--here is one answer:

All too often than not, pre formed 'cliques' preclude the possibility of volunteerism. I had volunteered and was serving for more than two years, but with the change of EMA director in my city I was eased aside for personal reasons. The new director wanted his personal friend to fill my role. I would have stayed--even if just to be there, but I was 'not needed' anymore. I resigned after the old director did rather than being 'removed' by the new one.

All too often than not, patronage plays a part of any volunteer effort, then when the 'sh*t hits the fan' most of the 'friends' disappear leaving a gutted volunteer organization and almost no effectiveness during the time effectiveness is most needed. The result is the officials get a picture of a disjointed and useless amateur radio contribution. Is it any wonder why hams are told they're not needed? Is it any wonder why some ARES organizations can't get their act together so as to get something meaningful accomplished?

When I 'left' the city EMA, I e-mailed the section manager and section emergency co-ordinator two or three times to volunteer my services there. I never heard from either of them so I gave up. Then I heard that there was a lack of volunteers for the regional EMA bunker, with only one man there sometimes to run two or three practice nets. Appeals went out for volunteers, but I was so upset with the lack of organization shown that I didn't bother responding.

Why volunteer when you are ignored? Why take time to try to help agency heads who don't really want you around? Why bother wasting time that could be better used in worthwhile endeavours? I have my equipment, I have the station and the standby power needed. If needed, I will be ready, but I refuse to play the 'kiss my as*' game most of the agency heads want us to play.

You asked 'why'. Please don't be upset by the candidness of the reply.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W3LK on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

With all due respect to UUG ...

<< Did you know any amateur class can join MARS and operate on HF nets. >>

The committment to MARS membership, Army, Air Force or Navy-Marine Corps, is the same as any other communications support activity be it ARES, RACES or something else. It requires a committment of time, training, and equipment.

MARS is NOT a playground for the ego-driven operator with a still-wet amateur license. In our state's experience, the dropout rate for members-in-training approaches 75 percent, especially among new hams who have no idea what they are getting into.

I can't speak for what Army does, but if you are going to be an effective member, there is much more involved in Navy-Marine Corps MARS than just a hour a month on a net or two. Anyone who believes or tells you otherwise is simply dishonest.

This aspect of amateur radio simply isn't for everyone.

73,

Lon - NNN0OOR / NNN0GAW THREE
MDE Navy-Marine Corps MARS
Proudly Serving Those Who Serve

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K4UUG on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

AI2AI

Amateur Radio has a long standing image problem.Because many amateurs all too often are hypersensitive and rude,assume the worst in people,rarely give people the benefit of the doubt, rarely are they ( " newcomers " )to Amateur Radio. Because of the arrogant,haughty behaviors and attitudes our youth view Amateur Radio as a bunch of brass pounding crusty ill-tempered old men who have poor personal hygine and are the biggest cheap skates.I've seen them! been to a HAM Fest? Too
many in this hobby lack empathy.I know a HAM who became an (SK)and before he was even cold some hams called his widow asking about his radio equipment.How crude is that! The Image Problem is not the newcomers fault it has been Long Standing.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W3LK on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

YZL:

<< To those people, I ask:

“What do you do to merit the valuable bandwidth that is granted to you? ………….or do you just have a “right” to it; ….like so many other things the “Gimme Generation” takes for granted???” >>

I passed the required amateur radio exams! If you think anything else is required to "merit" the use of the bandwidth, you are wrong!

Nothing else is required for me to "merit" the valuable bandwidth. There is NO requirement anywhere in in the licensing process OR in Part 97 that I participate in ANY form of public service communications. If I do so, it is MY CHOICE.

FWIW, between MARS, my professional position and other activities, I put in well over 50 hours a month in disaster-related communications. I do it because I WANT to, not because because I am compelled to by some self-important person who thinks it's the only part of amateur radio that matters. Oh yea, I chase DX, do a little small time contesting and rag-chew every chance I get.

Lon - NNN0OOR / NNN0GAW THREE
MDE Navy-Marine Corps MARS
Proudly Serving Those Who Serve

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K4UUG on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

N4ZOU "Thats the current attitude of federal and local agencies."

They have this attitude because many HAMS have a grandiose sense of self-importance, believes that he or she is "special", has a sense of entitlement,and shows arrogant,haughty attitudes.Amateur radio has a Image problem and its not the newcomer.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K4UUG on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

With all due respect to W3LK
"MARS is NOT a playground for the ego-driven operator with a still-wet amateur license. In our state's experience, the dropout rate for members-in-training approaches 75 percent, especially among new hams who have no idea what they are getting into."

Amateur Radio has a long standing image/ EGO problem.Because many amateurs all too often are hypersensitive and rude,assume the worst in people,rarely give people the benefit of the doubt, rarely are they ( " newcomers " )to Amateur Radio. Because of the arrogant,haughty behaviors and attitudes our youth view Amateur Radio as a bunch of brass pounding crusty ill-tempered old men who have poor personal hygine and are the biggest cheap skates,been to a HAM Fest?

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K4UUG on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

W3LK

OH YEA
US ARMY MARS
AAV4XK

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W7AIT on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

1. ARRL flat on its butt, Katrina. Set a horrible example.
2. Field Day is a joke, not real world as an emergency, excuse to go drink beer and play radio in a field
3. It’s a hobby
4. Disabled, declining health
5. Application paperwork pries into my private life. It’s a hobby, not a business or a job
6. Have to take a bunch of classes that aren’t relavent
7. I’m not a fat orange vested nerd with a HT
8. It’s a hobby.
9. Oh, did I mention its a hobby?

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W8VOM on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

My first responsibility in an emergency is to my family! I respect and appreciate the time and effort volunteers donate to their communities. Amateur Radio is a Service [and] a Hobby.There are other aspects of this hobby that require just as much time and dedication. Perhaps these other activities are not as important as public service work but it's a matter of choice and priorities.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by WD8PTB on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

People have different interests. I am not interested in the same things you are. We have had emergencies in our area and I did participate. Many of the Public service Ham groups want you to particpate for many events that are not emergencies and to have what they consider to be "the proper training" or you will not be allowed to participate.
In many cases I think they are trying to build there own little kingdom so they can feel important.
No flames please! I did not mention any specific group so flaming me would suggest that you feel gilty about something. Don WD8PTB

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KC0ORM on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

As someone who does volunteer for various community public service events, what totally slays me is that I never see the District EC or the County EC at an event. The only time I hear those guys is the weekly, structured, ARES net. I can't speak for anyone else but I learned a lot more about traffic handling and operation by standing on the side of the road, watching bike riders wizz past and listening to the event net.

Don't ask ME why people don't volunteer when the ECs can't seem to.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N5YPJ on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Very minimal amateur radio organization in this region. Repeaters aren't published in the repeater directories. Best as I can tell we have no events desiring our participation in their events. Our in town repeater has been off the air for months while being relocated. We did get Skywarn training sometime back. If you're not a sheriff dept. groupie then you're not in the Skywarn group. Just googled looking for a club website, that seems to have disappeared. 8 years ago after a major flash flood, ham radio and a dedicated data line for a local ISP was the only method of communication for a day or so. Most of the phones were out so it didn't matter if the T-1 worked or not. Fortunately most of the affected telco equipment was able to be dried out, and power restored to public safety equipment quickly and returned to service. I guess somethings just don't get going in certain areas. I am always willing to volunteer IF called upon, otherwise I really have heard enough about "how I count on my cell phone or wireless internet" when offering services.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KI6LO on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

KB9YZL boldy states -

"It seems as though the majority of contributors to this thread all have reasons for NOT participating in Public Service."

Well if you had taken the time to read the original post, you would have read this on the VERY FIRST LINE -"I would appreciate only those hams that DO NOT currently volunteer any of their time for ARES, RACES or public service events to answer this posting. Anecdotal stories by those who are already volunteers is not what I am looking for, so I ask you to respectfully not post a reply here."

Guess you were in too big of a hurry to respond.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N0IU on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

KB9YZL wrote, "or do you just have a “right” to it; ….like so many other things the “Gimme Generation” takes for granted???”"

Boy, talk about getting your license at the wrong time! Even though I held a Technician Class license (that requied two written tests and a 5 WPM Morse code test), General Class license, Advanced Class license and Extra Class license all before the dropping of the 13 and 20 WPM code tests, I was told I was not a "real ham" since I earned all of my licenses through the VE system instead of walking uphill both directions through a blinding snowstorm in the middle of July to take my tests before an FCC engineer who's parents weren't married to each other.

Now this person who has held their Technician Class license for just over 5 years is telling me I am not worthy of holding an Amateur Radio License because I have not made the personal choice to work emergency communications or do public service work.

When is this unfair treatment going to stop??? Can't we all just get along?

Scott N0IU

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K8QV on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Why don't I volunteer? I take your meaning to be that as hams we are duty bound to join RACES, ARES, or some other acronym.

Why don't I volunteer for that? Frankly, and firstly, because of people like you. And other reasons.

QUOTE: "If you are a licensed ham and do not currently volunteer time to help in your local communities, I would appreciate knowing why."

So you would appreciate knowing why. Do you see how you've set yourself up as the authority on what all hams should be? We owe YOU an explanation of why we don't come up to YOUR standards?

It so happens that I agree that everyone should help wherever and whenever possible. It is of benefit and it feels good to do good. However, joining these pseudo military/government/bureaucratic egofests is the least efficient way to actually be of any real service. Part 97 does not specify any clubs you need to join.

Real disasters need real professionals who can clear roads, administer medical treatment, and operate heavy equipment. All those professionals also have the ability to press a button on a radio or phone and talk. Radio communication is not the exclusive area of hams any more. Everybody has a communications device. Real emergency personnel have told me that a bunch of even "properly trained and certified" hams at the scene are superfluous and sometimes a hindrance.

That being said, should a tornado hit my street and I still have a working radio or telephone, I certainly would contact anyone available for appropriate help. When the help arrives, I'll get out of the way. If a hurricane or flood threatens the area I can go to the nearest shelter and offer emergency communication with my radio if their phones go out. This takes no special training or certification. Bureaucratic minds are making this simple act more difficult than necessary.

There was a day (and I was actively there) that amateur radio was useful in emergencies, but with the advances in technology and proliferation of government agencies at all levels, that day is over. Here in Florida, portable cell towers are on their way to hurricane landfall sites before the storms even arrive. Every cop and fireman has a radio. WE ARE NOT NEEDED IN THAT ARENA ANYMORE! I wish the holier-than-thou EMCOMM types would just get over themselves and really do some good in their communities by Elmering the newbies, erecting antennas for the elderly and disabled hams, donating money/equipment to worthy recipients or maybe get a license upgrade and become a VE. There's no glory in this, and you don't get certificates, patches or titles. But you do actually help someone. But hey, if that's not you cup of tea either, then just enjoy your ragchews, contesting, SSTV or whatever - it's your hobby!

And by the way, in a catastrophic worst case scenario, you'll need a small, low power CW rig that can operate for days on a battery. You'll quickly run out of power to effectively use FM and SSB modes. And you won't have your laptop or gas for a generator. It will be back to basics. How many of you are ready for that scenario? That is when hams could really provide communication when nobody else could. That is the only situation where hams could really save the day, but instead we're just waiting for the code requirement to be dropped so we can get more hotshot EMCOMM operators!

I'm sorry, but I just have had it with the Emergency Elitists and had to respond to this one. I know it's a waste of time, but I couldn't help it.

OK, now feel free to hate my selfish attitude.

- Chris

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N5YPJ on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

To K8QV - Amen. Wish my thoughts could flow to words as eloquently as yours did.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W5GNB on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

As for me, I am in ham radio strictly for the Technical aspect of it. I really don't give a hoot about playing fireman, policemen, rescue worker, ETC.

I think these jobs should be left up to the PROFESSIONAL folks that my TAX MONEY goes to support!

I don't think I want a policeman or fireman coming to my workplace and trying to do my job, It would probably turn into a babysitting situation and I am sure that most of these Professional folks feel the same about some HAM or CB'er attempting to play Pro in thier jobs.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by USCG_RMC on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I volunteer with CERT both as a team leader and as an instructor, I am a member of the local ARES.

If you want to give back to the community, you can find the time.

Herb/K0HEA

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K0RFD on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I volunteer my time back to the hobby as a VE. Your next emcomm guy might be the guy I just tested. How dare you imply that your way of volunteering is more valuable than mine?

I don't volunteer to provide emergency communications for two reasons. First, because it's not my cup of tea. I consult for a living. I can't afford to drop whatever I am doing whenever called. My customers would drop me twice as fast. Second, I find that the people I would have to deal with are just as self-important, and unjustifiably so, as WV7R. You want to do emcomms, great. Do it. Don't rag my ass out because I don't do it. I give back to the hobby in other ways. Hobby? What's that? Yes, hobby. It's a hobby. Deal with it.

Anyone in the hobby who wants to clip an HT to their belt, put a light bar on their vehicle, or protend to be a cop, go for it. I won't condemn you. It's just not my cup of tea.

One final word to another poster in this thread. W0IPL. If you can't treat volunteers with respect after working with 8 or 10 of them, you have no business working with volunteers. Period. I don't care how much they bore you. If they bore you, ask for a different assignment.

Assumptions

by AI2IA on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

There are a lot of assumptions circulating in this long thread:
Emergency communications is best handled by civil government.
All hams owe a debt of community service.
Community service must be a team effort.
Technical class licensees are really unqualified for emergency service and other team efforts.
Hams are not really respected or thought useful by real first responders.
Fully equipped and skilled hams existing outside of formal Emcom organizations cannot be considered as a pool of emergency communications operators and must be excluded in all discussions and statistics of Emcom.
Amateur radio is nothing more than a hobby.
It is all a clique.
Leaders like the limelight and run away when the real thing comes along.
Etc, etc.
Has anyone ever thought of allowing hams, themselves, to match their individual skills and personalities to what they do best, regardless of what the result of that choice happens to be? Will the ham who started all of this, Allan Cush, WV7R, answer this question, "How do you go about recruiting the kind of hams you want for volunteer service, and how do you plan to keep them aboard? If the answer is, "I don't know," please say so. The thread can then proceed from there, and only then can you make some kind of progress.

RE: Assumptions

by KC0CQE on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I joined a volunteer group. We responded to an actual event and ARES declared they were in charge, RACES declared they were in charge, law enforcement told us to turn off our amateur radios as we were interfering with critical communications. We said "yes sir" and worked together as directed by law enforcement WITHOUT any amateur radios.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB9YZL on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Scott wrote; >>”Now this person who has held their Technician Class license for just over 5 years is telling me I am not worthy of holding an Amateur Radio License because I have not made the personal choice to work emergency communications or do public service work.”<<

What has the date on my license or your license got to do with it?? ……..Stick to the question!

Why should the entire world reserve valuable bandwidth in an incredibly crowded radio spectrum for the ARS, and receive nothing tangible in return?

If we don’t offer some service in return, how do we justify our claim on those bands???? …….Just screaming (while thumping chest); “Hey!! ……I passed THE TEST!” doesn’t really do it.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by SSBHAM69 on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Because there is a hamsexy webstite that shows how all volunteers are fat, stupid and eccentric wanna bes. And I don't wanna be like that. So, I will not volunteer. I will be like my hamsexy heros and only make fun of hams and put them down.

And now you know the rest of the story.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K2LES on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I don't volunteer anymore because...

1. I'm married
2. I have 2 young kids
3. I leave for work at 7:30 am and lucky to get home by 7:00 pm - and aforementioned job has me on 24/7 call
4. I have a home/yard to maintain (the grass doesn't mow itself)
5. Once in a while I like to partake in sexual activities (see #1)
6. I need to spend time grooming myself so I don't smell like a hamfest
7. I need to spend time doing some kind of physical activity so I don't look like a hamfest
8. I've already put in 1,000's of hours volunteering in a law-enforcement capacity but gave that up (see #2)
9. I eBay'ed all of my radio equipment because this hobby is boring.
10. In a _real_ emergency, my priorities are my family and getting them out of harm's way before donning an day-glo orange safety vest with an HT and an inflated sense of self-importance.
11. In a _real_ emergency, I'm going to seek help from a duly-sworn member of the local law-enforcement community and/or certified and trained folks who are members of my local fire/EMS department.
12. In a _real_ emergency, if a HamSexy wacker type with a /\/\otorola radio with all of the features that no one uses tries to stop me, he'll be looking down the barrel of my 9mm.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by AB0WR on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

kb9yzl:
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Why should the entire world reserve valuable bandwidth in an incredibly crowded radio spectrum for the ARS, and receive nothing tangible in return?

If we don’t offer some service in return, how do we justify our claim on those bands???? …….Just screaming (while thumping chest); “Hey!! ……I passed THE TEST!” doesn’t really do it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

How about by contributing to the advancement of the radio art? How about by advancing ones skills in the communication and technical phases of the art? How about by being part of the reservoir of trained operators, technicians, and electronic experts the ARS is supposed to provide? How about by enhancing international goodwill?

Do any of these sound familar?

If not, I would suggest you reread Part 97 more closely.

If yes, then I am unsure why you seem to be implying that emergency service is the only reason the ARS exists.

tim ab0wr

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by NS6Y_ on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Do not have (make) the time because there are so many more fun things to do like go to the dentist or do taxes.

Too much of a clusterflux.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K0JEG on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

The main reason I don't volunteer to run ARES/RACES is because if the normal communications infrastructure is down, I have to go fix it!

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by QRZDXR on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

wow! your really asking for it.

Look in 89 when the calif earthquake hit SFO and hollester, hams jumped in and started to help. When the worst was over the public services got to be a joke. Hording and discrimination took effect. Looking around we saw the tired ham radio operator, the tired private pilot who gave their all making sure that people were taken care of. Where was the red Cross ? well they were on TV saying don't send blanket and food--- give us money instead.

Again strange as it seemed not one ham was reconized by the city or the public services for rendering aid. Sure you say - your not their for the glory. Strange that after the event and future ones who gets the pat on the back-- the paid public service person. the red cross worker who is their gets paid, the police get paid, the firemen get paid--wonderful yet not a word of thanks for the hams and pilots who actually saved lives by working togeather.

9-11 is just such action again.

Now I am not saying that hams are after the glory but strange that a person who is paid to be their is glorified and the volenteer isn't.

ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!

As I have always said emergency services is big bucks. everyone makes out when disasters strike (except for the ones it effects) Think about it for a min. Truckers make out, gas companies make out (of which you didn't see any donations from). Everyone in the construction industry are wringing their hands waiting to jump in on the next one. It makes them money.

Hams who volenteer for the services are looked at as a cost savings for the EOC's. After all they don't have to pay the operator yet they have control over him as if they do.

And when you think about it. All of the cost, time and trainging is for what. So they can show a lot of troups who they can call to action.

Something about a card carrying member.

Yet arn't these the same cities who are anti ham. the very same ones that have ordances against putting up antennas, worte CC&Rs to keep thses very same people off the air? Gee Ya think?

One person mentioned that the FCC regs say that ham radio is part of the EOC system and your required to submit. Orginally that was true. But then again they also required that you used to know something about radio and CW also. Thus when they dropped the requirements (under the guideance of the ARRL) they also turned it into a hobby band (commucators class license) similar to what the old CB was. Thus again MONEY TALKS AND THE REST WALKS. Sales of rice boxes skyrocketed. manufactures were on easy street. You didn't have to learn anything (still don't) or disaplin yourself to educate yourself.

So yes I don't volenteer for anything. I go for the shows, listen to the barker asking for people to sign up and participate and then joke with the others at break about how egotitically dumb the guy is waisting our time.

Its not a case of us not wanting them but, more a case of them not wanting us. This is a direct result of the dumming down of the hobby and technical aspects.

I laugh at the suggestion of field day. Most new hams would hurt themselves if they had to put a antenna up. Let alone have to figure out what length it had to be for the band. Novices in the old days used to be able to at least do that.

We won't even talk about which end of the soldering iron they picked up.

No I don't want to hear about how we are supposed to be. that was a long time ago. Things changed and so did ham radio. Now today its ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!!

HAM RADIO IS A GREAT TIME WAISTER AND HOBBY TO CHAT WITH FELLOW HAMS ON. The rest of the stuff is a wash.

Volunteers are ego pupets on strings.

As to being ready for a emergency, I use the old boy scout cry " ALWAYS BE PREPARED" You are on your own (as shown in Katrinas wake) no one is going to help you nor should you expect it. that being said, I also want you to know that we all help each other during times of crisis.

As shown again by Katrina and the south, protection and safety comes from your six friends when others want to do harm to your and yours. What makes you think anyone is going to do more than talk to you on the radio?

Ham radio is a great commucators hobby. the rest is a joke in todays high tech world.

Gee this thing were writing with sure doesn't look like a radio. Even western union reconized that the world has changed. the internet is in. No one needs the old telagram-- same with hams. Even though the license says new-- your a dinosoar headed out the door. Don't believe me--then why is the ARRL and the FCC allowing the dummying down of the hobby??

Enjoy commucating while you can. Its like the titanic after hitting the iceburg-- heading down hill sinking fast for the quiet cold deep.

Volenteer if you feel like-- but don't bother me with your whining--I am not listening. Remember ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KA9INV on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

This article is yet more flamebait appearing on this site. I'm sorry; I don't recall the FCC mandating a certain number of volunteer hours to maintain my license.

As far as volunteering for local bike or running races, I don't have time to do that because I'm the one doing the biking or running (or both, in the case of triathlons!) - and the training takes up a good amount of time, too.

Emergency communications? I can't be on call for that, and I don't have the time or money for the (un)necessary classes. I'm a full-time student, I'm a triathlete, I work two jobs, and I have a few radio shows at the college radio station (I've issued severe thunderstorm warnings on the air - does that count as emcomms??). I have little freetime, and frankly, I don't care to spend it around a bunch of guys who have demonstrated that athletic metalheads aren't welcome or wanted. And I forgot - I have responsibility to my fiancee, too.

The time I do have for ham radio is for tooling around with antennas and equipment and making some QSOs. It's a hobby, and nobody is going to tell me I'm less of a ham for it. The guys who think that ham radio is life are the ones that truly ought to be ashamed. Me, I'm perfectly content regarding ham radio for what it is - a hobby.

RE: Assumptions

by WV7R on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

The original thrust of my post was to find out from those hams who are not currently volunteering in the public service arena why that might be. There are no 'right' or 'wrong' answers. There are just answers. From those answers it was hoped that some segment of the ham population that is currently not involved in public service communications, but would like to be if some of the impediments were removed, could be reached.

Society has changed. There are many hams who do volunteer work. It is in their communities, their church, perhaps in foreign lands. And it does not involve ham radio at all.

There are other hams who do not feel that anyone, ham or non-ham alike, are obligated to do any sort of public service in their communities at all. I am not trying to find out anything from those people either. I already know they exist.

There are those who have been burned, been mis-used, been ignored, and been un-appreciated when they have tried to help out. While I wish that they had not had that experience, I hope that any of the public service leadership that may be following this thread can learn from it, as these are common complaints.

But to answer your question, I am trying to ferret out those hams who would like to participate in public service but feel that they can't because of <insert reason(s) here>. For instance, I know operators here where I live that would be happy to help out with a MS Walk, a local parade or some other civic event, but they do not have the time to attend monthly meetings, take seemingly endless training which may or may not ever be used. Somehow these people get lost in the cracks to the public service community though. I guess I am trying to figure out a way of identifying them and then reaching them, and keeping them informed of occasional local opportunities where their help could be used and appreciated.

RE: Assumptions

by KE7GOJ on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Wow, on reading this thread...

If you don't volunteer, you're an idiot/not performing your civic duty/etc.

If you do volunteer, you're an idiot/interfering with the professionals/an egomaniac/etc.

Let's face it, under part 97, what is the VERY FIRST justification for the ARS? Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications. (97.1(a))

Granted this isn't a "requirement" per se, but lets face it, the FCC *could* make millions of dollars from selling our spectrum to people willing to pay for (and don't think for a minute there wouldn't be a line a mile long of people willing to pay for most of our spectrum!)

So let's not get distracted by whether or not it is a vital part of the ARS, becuase it is. It seems to me, from reading this thread, and others, that those who are not involved emergency communications as one aspect of the hobby feel somehow guilty about it and that they must justify their actions.

I don't personally volunteer becuase I am in a location where there isn't any organization I can volunteer with locally; I am not willing to drive 2 hours on my own time to participate. However, I do not feel that I need to justify my decision, nor did I feel attacked by the initial post, or any of the "pro-em-com" posts, or feel that I need to justify myself. As many have posted, if there is an emergency, I can get on the radio, and contact the NCO; if he needs the help, he will use me, if not, he won't, and I won't feel bad.

To those who advocate letting "the professionals" "do their job" I say: absolutely! The job of an emcomm is not to "play firefighter" or "play policeman" but to accompany those officials, and provide communications, in the event that the police and/or fire systems break down. The fact is, those "professional" "push a button" systems are far less reliable than anyone wants to admit to or believe. I use such a system at work every day, and there are communications failures at least 2-3 times every day--this in a system that is not heavily used, and under "normal" conditions. On the other hand, I have never failed to hit the local repeater, from anywhere, including inside the same buildings that our motorola digital radio system routinely fails to work within. (I don't know the exact locaton of said repeater, but I am pretty sure it is farther than the motorola system's master antenna. Also, I am in range of at least two VHF repeaters with regional geographic coverage, but if the single master antenna for the motorola system goes down (power outage, windstorm, etc) the entire system will be unworkable. That system also doesn't have anywhere near the range I can get from my 5w HT, let alone the VHF repeaters in my area.

Sure, there is a good chance any disaster that affects me will affect a lot of the people who could receive me, but then again, that's what HF is for, should there be something on that scale. I heard reports (maybe here?) where one of the first Katrina Net Ops set up in Australia, until more local operations could get set up. That level of decentralization is key to the sucessful operation of ham emergency communications, in my opinion (something the professional emcomm types should learn from....(it isn't the fancy training and protocols, but that's a topic for a different thread...)), but more importantly is something that the "professionals" will NEVER be able to match. There will NEVER be a police radio system that will allow a cop in Podunk, Kansas, talk to someone in Australia, and know that the message will get to the person it needs to get to.

Lets face it, whatever "they" may say, those of us with any experience in radio communications know that there will ALWAYS be communication issues, and adding more layers (ability to talk between police and fire, for example), just adds more places for things to break down. It isn't a matter of "if" the new systems will break, but "when" they will break, and, perhaps more importantly, will be be ready for it when they do? If, as mentioned by others, we have been taking part in other aspects of the hobby, then we will, and we will be able to provide a valuable service to those in our community. THEN maybe we can get the laws and CC&R's changed. We are going to have to prove our worth, however, before we get those changed (another good topic for a different thread...) IMO attitudes like "let the professionals handle it" go a long way towards proving the point that hame radio is little more than a "nuisannce" hobby anymore.

</soapbox>

m2cw
mike

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K2PI on August 28, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I used to participate in things like thtis, but I eventually learned this sort of thing was dominated by wannabe Cops and firemen, who made them miserable. In addition, most of our "events" were merely excuses for whatever local group it was for to avoid the expense of hiring someone else. I do remember helping to park cars, and being a "runner" a few times. Amateur Radio doesn't mean "indenture" as far as I was given to understand.

Finally, in 30 years of hamming, I cannot ever say this sort of thing has been interesting to me or hassle-free. I have a wife and three children, work 10-12 hour days, travel 300K miles a year and consider my free time very precious. Most ARES or RACES coordinators think nothing of calling your home or asking you to provide equipment (that you paid for) to support an "event". I cannot come up with a good explanation for my XYL as to why I would prefer standing on the side of a road during a walk-a-thon to being with her and the Children. Last I looked, no RACES coordinator was planning on being there at my deathbed.

"public service" in the regulations means that I must be ready to assist if called by the Federal Government (my employer). I figure I have given them 21 years of my life in some of the worst 3rd world hellholes on the planet for years at a time, in addition to being shot at, bombed, and stuck in a volcanic eruption. I am sorry to say I feel no further obligation.

73,

Bob.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by NS6Y_ on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

In 23 years of hamming I've done ONE Field Day and that's enough! Now I don't have to do it again :-))))))))

what a cluster that was, enough safety violations to give an OSHA inspector a heart attack, everyone getting pissed off at whatever computer some sadist had put in each shack until the computers had the good grace to die (some with smoke, some not) and people could get some communication done, everyone kind of doing their own thing. I did nada since I didn't bring my own radio and stuff to be utterly self-sufficient.

Screw volunteering, pay me $20 an hour and treat me with the decency the vast majority of employees in the US get (not much but a modicum) and I'll learn all the radio protocol you like. Until you're ready to do that, have I told you about my Alma Mater? Screw U.

When the excrement hits the rotating blades, yeah a bunch of us will pull ourselves out of the wreckage, get our equipment working, and form some kind of a comms network or prove ourselves useful helping other networks work better. We'll be a bunch of n00bs but we'll figure something out.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N0IU on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

KB9YZL wrote, "Why should the entire world reserve valuable bandwidth in an incredibly crowded radio spectrum for the ARS, and receive nothing tangible in return?

If we don’t offer some service in return, how do we justify our claim on those bands????"

This whole notion of offering something in return seems to be a bigger issue to you than it does to the agency that actually manages our spectrum and issues licenses to use it. As far as I can tell, you are just some guy who lives in the suburbs of Chicago who has nothing to do with spectrum allocation or licensing.

Tell you what Mr. Carroll, when the FCC (the people who issued my license) asks me to return my license because I have not volunteered enough time with my local ARES/RACES or whatever office, I will gladly return it.

Scott N0IU

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB9YZL on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Tim wrote; >>"How about by contributing to the advancement of the radio art? How about by advancing ones skills in the communication and technical phases of the art? How about by being part of the reservoir of trained operators, technicians, and electronic experts the ARS is supposed to provide? How about by enhancing international goodwill?"<<

Well Tim, .....all of that sounds really Grand, Honorable, and all that; .....but let's look at it realistically.

"......contributing to the advancement of the radio art.": Oh come on! .....Are you seriously suggesting that significant breakthroughs are going to come from the amateur sector, in a world that is now microprocessor based? How many Hams could walk into Motorola's engineering department and explain to them where they went wrong on their last chip?

".....advancing ones skills in the communication and technical phases of the art.": To what end? The last rag-chew I listened in on had more to do with the technical aspects of gall stones than electronics! If the only objective is to become more proficient at one's hobby, then my original question is still unanswered.

".....being part of the reservoir of trained operators, technicians, and electronic experts.": Again the question is; To what end? ......If the overwhelming attitude is (as it certainly appears to be) that "It's only a Hobby" and "I'm not obligated to do anything", then what value does that "reservoir" really have? ....No one who has to deal with, and plan for serious issues will take a group like that seriously!

And Finally: "........enhancing international goodwill.": Tim, ...the vast majority of the world's population doesn't even know what Ham Radio is. How much impact do you really think is being made on the International Goodwill Front??

No Tim, ....I don't think that Public Service is the only thing the ARS is about: I do think that it is one of the last of the "Charter Elements" that the average Ham can still fulfill, even in some minor way.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB9YZL on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Scott;

You mentioned; "...the agency that actually manages our spectrum and issues licenses to use it.". That's a good place to start.

As I am sure you realize, it costs money to run an agency like the FCC. Even the tiny portion of that agency that concerns itself with the ARS certainly has a significant budget. Do you really think that your once-every-ten-years renewal fee funds that?? Is it really OK to assume that the taxpaying public will pick up the slack, as they have in the past, when there is no benefit for them?

The FCC payroll is just the tip of the iceberg. Hams expect government aid in dealing with issues like BPL, where there are millions of dollars on the table. Why would the government go against major financial interests in favor of the ARS, unless they are shown some value in return?

A lot of money and effort goes into maintaining the bands allocated to the ARS. I, personally, really appreciate that. Furthermore, I feel privileged that I am able to give a little bit back, in the form of community service.

I'm surprised that you find it so easy to adopt such a callous attitude.

..........And BTW; ......yes, you're quite right that I live in the Chicago area, ...and no, I don't have anything to do with spectrum allocation or licensing. What possible bearing does any of that have on the topic in question?????

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N2BR on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Been there done that for 20 years and it some one else turn.....

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N0IU on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

KB9YZL wrote, "As I am sure you realize, it costs money to run an agency like the FCC. Is it really OK to assume that the taxpaying public will pick up the slack, as they have in the past, when there is no benefit for them?"

This is why we don't talk about politics on the air. I sleep very well at night without worrying about the fiscal health of the FCC. If those who make the budget for the FCC decide to run the section of the Wireless Telecommunications Bureau that oversees the amateur radio service at a deficit, why is it my responsibility to give them something back? If they wanted something back, they would ask, nay DEMAND something back for it. The Federal government is not shy about that.

You go on to write, "Hams expect government aid in dealing with issues like BPL, where there are millions of dollars on the table. Why would the government go against major financial interests in favor of the ARS, unless they are shown some value in return?"

Maybe perhaps because some of the BPL operators use equipment that is in violation of Part 15?

You go on to write, "I'm surprised that you find it so easy to adopt such a callous attitude."

What do you want hams to do, hold a bake sale to finance the FCC?

You conclude by writing, "...and no, I don't have anything to do with spectrum allocation or licensing. What possible bearing does any of that have on the topic in question?????"

As I said before, you seem much more concerned with this notion of giving something back than does the FCC. Of course we can provide a very valuable service in times of need, but there is no penalty for not doing so, no matter how guilty you want to make us feel. If the FCC wanted to start charging for an amateur radio license, I am sure they would. If the FCC wanted to require amateur radio operators to do a certain amount of hours doing community service, they would make it a requirement.

The FCC seems to be operating just fine without your help!

Scott N0IU

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KA2DDX on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Why don't I volunteer? That's an interesting question. Recently, after pondering the fact I'm getting older and might want something to do later on when I retire, I decided to consider getting involved with a local club and RACES/ARES types of activity. So, after checking out who was doing what around here, I emailed two of the principals of one of the local clubs who are active with this. Both emails went unanswered. Then, I decided to attend the flea market of another local group and took my teen age daughter with me. The items for sale were mostly garbage and the experience was uninspiring to say the least. So, I gave up the whole idea. I've always wondered how much demand there is for manpower in these various groups. Still wondering about it.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N8QBY on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

IF, I was to volunteer say, during an emergency of some kind, I certainly wouldn't do it through a ham sponsored program. No offense meant but that just turns into a cluster. I would just help in my own way, whether it is assisting people in need with evacuation, supplies or whatever. I don't go looking for at-a-boys/girls, or need recognition for any good doings.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KX8N on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

"If the FCC wanted to start charging for an amateur radio license, I am sure they would."

Umm, they DO charge a fee for radio licenses. No, it's not alot, but how much could it cost in manpower to file a license application (or renewal) and type the info into a database? Plus they charge for vanity licenses. So the FCC definately is getting our money.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K4UUG on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

K2LES "12. In a _real_ emergency, if a HamSexy wacker type with a /\/\otorola radio with all of the features that no one uses tries to stop me, he'll be looking down the barrel of my 9mm. "

AMEN BROTHER !!!

RE: Assumptions

by K4UUG on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

KE7GOJ "We are going to have to prove our worth."

FIRST YOU MUST FIX THE LONG STANDING IMAGE PROBLEM

Amateur Radio has a long standing IMAGE / EGO problem.Because many amateurs all too often are hypersensitive and rude,assume the worst in people,rarely give people the benefit of the doubt, rarely are they newcomers to Amateur Radio. Because of the arrogant,haughty behaviors and attitudes many view Amateur Radio as a bunch of brass pounding crusty ill-tempered orange vested fat old men who have poor personal hygine and are the biggest cheap skates.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by AB0WR on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Well Tim, .....all of that sounds really Grand, Honorable, and all that; .....but let's look at it realistically.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I am looking at it realistically. I would suggest that it is you that has the tunnel vision.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"......contributing to the advancement of the radio art.": Oh come on! .....Are you seriously suggesting that significant breakthroughs are going to come from the amateur sector, in a world that is now microprocessor based? How many Hams could walk into Motorola's engineering department and explain to them where they went wrong on their last chip?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

That's exactly what I am suggesting. Just because *you* don't keep up on the frontier doesn't mean other hams are not. Where do you think the ideas for wi-fi came from? From the amateur packet networks. Are you even aware of the Special Temp Authority issued to some hams to experiment with wideband modes on 6meters? How about the experiments with DDS chips providing I&Q outputs used for building direct conversion phasing receivers?

Hams *are* coming up with developments every day. Just because you don't know about them you assume they don't exist. *That* is not realistic thinking.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
".....advancing ones skills in the communication and technical phases of the art.": To what end? The last rag-chew I listened in on had more to do with the technical aspects of gall stones than electronics! If the only objective is to become more proficient at one's hobby, then my original question is still unanswered.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Why is your question unanswered? You saying so doesn't make it so except in your own mind. It's obvious you won't accept *anything* as an answer. I would suggest you talk to some engineering deans at some colleges to find your answer.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
".....being part of the reservoir of trained operators, technicians, and electronic experts.": Again the question is; To what end? ......If the overwhelming attitude is (as it certainly appears to be) that "It's only a Hobby" and "I'm not obligated to do anything", then what value does that "reservoir" really have? ....No one who has to deal with, and plan for serious issues will take a group like that seriously!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Should a terrorist group ever set off a high altitude nuclear blast with a big EMP effect, you'll find out what the pool of technicians and electronic experts will be worth. The rebuilding of our infrastructure will make people with these skills just absolutely invaluable.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
And Finally: "........enhancing international goodwill.": Tim, ...the vast majority of the world's population doesn't even know what Ham Radio is. How much impact do you really think is being made on the International Goodwill Front??
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It's obvious you don't work enough DX to make any friends. As above, why do you assume that is true for all hams?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No Tim, ....I don't think that Public Service is the only thing the ARS is about: I do think that it is one of the last of the "Charter Elements" that the average Ham can still fulfill, even in some minor way.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I think it would be helpful if you opened yourself to understanding the vast part of the world that you don't exist in.

tim ab0wr

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB9CRY on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Oh come on! .....Are you seriously suggesting that significant breakthroughs are going to come from the amateur sector, in a world that is now microprocessor based? How many Hams could walk into Motorola's engineering department and explain to them where they went wrong on their last chip?

I couldn't but did you know that many of the engineers in Motorola's engineering dept. are also Amateur Radio Operators?

They are, many of them are in the same Radio Club I belong to. So yes, significant breakthroughs will be made, in part, by Hams.

Phil

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N0IU on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

KX8N wrote, "Umm, they DO charge a fee for radio licenses. No, it's not alot, but how much could it cost in manpower to file a license application (or renewal) and type the info into a database? Plus they charge for vanity licenses. So the FCC definately is getting our money."

Umm, which FCC are you sending money to? The money you paid for your vanity call was just for processing the vanity call, not for your license. If you never get a vanity call and renew online with the ULS system, you owe absolutely nothing to the FCC. Not one red cent! Amateur radio licenses are 100% free. Zero. Zip. Nada. The money you paid when you took your tests was split between your VE team (if they chose to keep any of it) and their VEC (ARRL, W5YI, etc.) $0.00 went to the FCC.

Scott N0IU

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K7FD on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Do you not have time for volunteer work of any kind? No

Do you not have time for monthly training meetings? No

Do you not know whom to contact to express your willingness to help out? No

...would you have time for and be willing to work a parade, a bike ride or some other community event once or twice a year? No

Any information would be appreciated:

I didn't get involved in ham radio to direct traffic at a parade. In fact, I can't think of an activity that is further away from what floats my boat in ham radio. If you get warm and fuzzy feelings doing it, great! But it's not for everyone.

73 John K7FD

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by AA8X on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I gave up all volunteering when communities banned amateur antennas. Rest assured, I will never do any more volunteering as long as we are constrained from installing antennas. Let the cell phone companies and government provide the communications.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K2LES on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"......contributing to the advancement of the radio
art.": Oh come on! .....Are you seriously suggesting
that significant breakthroughs are going to come from
the amateur sector, in a world that is now
microprocessor based? How many Hams could walk into
Motorola's engineering department and explain to them
where they went wrong on their last chip?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I think ham radio technology has plateaued because the CW crowd still thinks that 30 WPM morse code is superior to high-speed wireless data, VoIP, digital voice, cellular phones, the internet, and other "modern" forms of communication. The ARRL is slow to embrace new technology and are content in a world of SSB on shortwave for an elite group of people who've "earned" that right by learning CW.

People still think that 1200 baud packet is "advanced" technology. Why would I spend hundreds of dollars for a 9600 baud TNC when I can have DSL grade internet connectivity with a Windows-based smart phone for less money? To talk across the world via shortwave requires substantial investment of hardware, zoning regulations, etc... (yeah I know you can do it with a cheap QRP rig and 20' of wire)... but I can buy a new Dell PC for $300 and do more with so much less.

As long as the ham radio community is still promoting CW, the hobby will continue to languish as commercial uses of the airwaves continue to outpace and run circles around a bunch of stubborn ignorant old crusty smelly fat men wearing orange vests who'd rather pound brass than advance the hobby.

We have gobs of spectrum that are going to waste because the hobby is still using technology that was phased out of commercial/military applications years ago. Soon that spectrum will be gone.

The technology available to hams is outdated, antiquated, and expensive. It's a big investment to make for the sake of volunteering.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB9CRY on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

But to answer your question, I am trying to ferret out those hams who would like to participate in public service but feel that they can't because of <insert reason(s) here>

OK Allan, I hope you've found the answers you were looking for. I have two suggestions:

1. Do not in any way insinuate or directly state anything that would make any potential volunteer feel guilty for not volunteering or feel it's an obligation as part of their license. You do just that in the Title for this Article.

2. If you want volunteers, they are obviously not stomping at your door. You need to go find them. From the FCC you can get a list of all the licensed hams in your area. Start contacting them, tell them your plan, try to stimulate interest. But have a plan first and be interesting.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K8AG on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Its complicated.

My real passion is ham radio. I also like to mentor folks whenever possible. The problem is I had a family. Not I have a family, but I had a family. Let me explain.

Being morbidly obese pretty much all of my life, I new that the kids needed some physical activity if they were not to end up like me. Exercise for the sake of it never appealed to me, but martial arts was a form of exercise that I felt was actually interesting. The kids were all for it so we enrolled them.

One of the benefits to martial arts is that parents can do it with the kids. Baseball, football, swimming, soccer and the like all are team sports and parents and kids don't mix. Martial arts is completely different. Kids and parents all can work together. It gives parents credibility when the kids get to the age of questions. It opens up actual conversations that wander onto any topic you can think of. Of course the conversations may start out as "What do you think I should do to improbe my side kick?" But these conversations easily segway into conversations on drugs, alcohol, sex and everything imaginable.

Needless to say I got involved. I got very involved. Our system of schools are based in Christianity and we have a variety of families at various stages of maturity attending classes. I have lost about 180 pounds and have taken over the weapons program for the martial arts schools as a whole.

My kids are pretty much out of it now. They are older and have departed the karate schools for various reasons. But I am now pretty much committed and a lot of people need me there. I really would like to join a ham radio club and go to meetings and contribute time and effort to training new hams. But I have commitments in the world of martial arts.

So I relegate myself to operating when I can, reading the boards and occasionally writing an article for a publication.

But I still really love radio.

73, JP, K8AG

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by NS4T on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

For years I loved to volunteer. I rarely do anymore. Why in a minute. I believe the credo that Amateur Radio is allowed to exist so it can provide emergency communications. My opinion is too many people feel it is strictly a hobby and have apparently forgotten the FCC rules quoted in other posts. A pool of trained radio operators. That means people who both know communications and practical radio operations.

I'm a 30 year ham and like others grew up prior to formal training classes. After spending 20 years in the Naval Nuclear Power field where clarity of communications is critical and standard terminology and repeat backs a way of life, it is almost comical to me to be corrected by someone for my "poor communications habits". We were trained to safely operate a reactor plant while fighting a fire or flooding while being several hundred feet under the ocean in gas masks. You learned to boil the essence of your message into as few simple words as possible and prioritize communications since everyone was trying to talk at once. You learned to give the person at the other end a few seconds to digest and act on the information they had just received prior to bombarding them with new messages. In short, I have never heard ANY emergency communications anywhere even approaching that level of professionalism.

Yet I have been told I do not know how to communicate because I have not completed a training class.

As WB8VDI and NT8A I used to volunteer in the Orlando area emergency communication exercises, public service events, and new ham training classes in the mid-1980's. I was asked to be their site emergency coordinator at the last exercise I attended. I had never performed that task before, but drew on the knowledge and skills I had learned in the Navy. Yes, Some hated my insistance on formal communications practices and asking them to rephrase their messages rather than rambling on for two minutes over a ten second message. But several people informed me they had never had anyone do the job better and were disappointed to learn I was being transferred from the area shortly. I was proud to hear the praise and thought I would be able to contribute in the future with other organizations.

I've settled down now and after living 27 different places do not intend to move again. As I began to explore emergency communications again I found the biggest obstacle to my participation to be enjoyment. It's not fun anymore. It's hard for me to be told I do not know how to communicate. One particularly annoying topic that repeats is how to say the letter "S". I have learned through contesting that some people understand "Sugar" better than "Sierra" and I often interchange the two. I cannot understand the attitudes of people who act like you had just killed their only child when they begin screaming about how important it is to use proper phonetics. I submit they do not really understand what is critical in passing information if they truly believe that. Critical information should receive a repeatback to ensure understanding. If the repeating station says "Santiago" for an "S" instead of "Sugar" or "Sierra", it is truly not a big deal.

WB2WIK spoke volumes to me. I would like to work emergencies with him anytime.

I bought a generator. I am putting up new antenna's, some permanently pointed towards key emergency stations and repeaters, and reconfiguring my station to ensure I can cover a wide range of frequency spectrum. I keep a large tackle box full of radio doodads ready. I have used Anderson powerpoles since the Orlando time frame. I have and am obtaining more hard copies of emergency planning information and pamphlets so I have the information when the internet goes down. I will be ready should my services be needed. But I haven't voluteered for anything in a long, long time.

I attended a class at the state Red Cross on emergency communications. I started (but never finished) an emergency communications course offered by the ARRL. To be honest, they were pretty much a waste of time. I learned a couple things, but it seemed that completion would mainly give someone else a 'warm fuzzy' that I know what I'm doing.

If I'm never called upon, so be it. If I am, I will do my best. In the meantime, many in the Ham radio emergency communications arena should remember the adage "Where there's smoke, there's fire." There are a lot of people, both in the paid emergency services and in the Ham community, that feel there are too many Hams filled with their own self-importance and that lost sight of the mission and their place in it.

Kevan Nason
NS4T

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KI6LO on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I'm going fishing.....

You guys and gals don't mind if I borrow a few wiglers from the bag of worms that this thread has become.

Face it, you could ask 100 hams the same question and get 102 different answers. Somewhere in the 100 will be a couple that think they have the answer to life, the universe and everything ...... which BTW is

42

KI6LO

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB2FCV on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I don't volunteer for RACES/ARES because in the 18 years of being a ham and the 15 years of being a volunteer firefighter I cannot recall one single incident in our town that our RACES was 'activated' for an actual emergency. Most of the time they are providing communications for races, events, parades, etc.

I know there are some select areas where RACES/ARES might get used to an extent, but even still - it's not for me. I prefer to be more involved than just passing messages. Lets face it, Police have their own communications, Fire, etc. Most Professionals would never even actually think to use RACES/ARES.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB9YZL on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Tim;

I see just a bit of “Tunnel Vision” in your position too: …………You’re dangerously close to breaking out into the “HAMS WILL SAVE THE WORLD!” song.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K3DWW on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

POLITICS! I was very active in my old county but individual and group conflicts among other hams and ARRL politics made it less than satisfying. Never again!

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB2SDR on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I would love to volunteer, but there are so few hams in a 120 mile vacinity that there would be no way to get anything going.

73
Jason

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W6TH on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

.

I have been there, done it and well trained.

EX-AFA6HM Mars.(EX NCS/CW)

I will sit on the side and ready for the occasion, call me when needed, but as it stands, I am not interested.

W6TH.
.:

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KE6MLF on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Happy to volunteer and help in case of an emergency.
NOT happy to get a security check, take training, have monthy exercises.. and then just get stuck at the local Red Cross chapter to give blanket counts and bed availability over the air.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W7ETA on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

It is very hard to find good management in volunteer organizations. After a few years in various clubs, I decided I'd had enough.

Bob

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by AB0WR on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Tim;

I see just a bit of “Tunnel Vision” in your position too: …………You’re dangerously close to breaking out into the “HAMS WILL SAVE THE WORLD!” song.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I am reminded of the boy who set out to save the shellfish stranded during low tide. Someone pointed out to him that there were so many he couldn't possibly save them all. He replied "Yes, but I sure made a difference to this one!" as he threw one out into the ocean.

Amateur radio is the same way. It won't save the entire world. But if just one ham who learned electronics through his interest in ham radio uses that electronics knowledge to make a difference in someone's life or if just one ham uses his learned communication skills to make a difference in someone's life, then the purpose of amateur radio is fulfilled.

Amateur radio's purpose doesn't have to be filled through being a "free" communications operator for a public agency or for an NGO - which is, somehow, what EMCOMM has gotten twisted into in today's world. As someone pointed out earlier, just follow the money to find out what has caused that paradigm to come into existence.

Look at the subject line. It says "Why Don't YOU Volunteer?" While the following message speaks to volunteering for RACES or ARES, the title itself is quite illuminating.

I have volunteered for 15 years with the Cub Scouts and the Boy Scouts on teaching electricity, electronics, and radio that I've learned through my interest in ham radio. Is that somehow being "less" of a volunteer for the public than working in the EOC? I volunteer to tutor high school and college students on physics, math, and electronics theory -- all learned through my interest in ham radio. Is that somehow being "less" of a volunteer than a ham sitting in a Red Cross building trying to get supply orders out? I even participate in Skywarn and have relayed messages from a tornado touchdown spot. It that being "less" of a volunteer than a RACES member sitting in the Adjutant General's office sending out resource assignment messages?

The tunnel vision here is in what is being accepted as being a public volunteer. I suspect you might even find a few on here that would not consider you a public volunteer unless you are going in with the next jump team at a forest fire in order to provide their communications.

Think about it.

tim ab0wr

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KC8VWM on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I don't volunteer for RACES/ARES because in the 18 years of being a ham and the 15 years of being a volunteer firefighter I cannot recall one single incident in our town that our RACES was 'activated' for an actual emergency.

Most of the time they are providing communications for races, events, parades, etc.

-------

As an emergency services professional, I pretty much feel the same way as you do.

The whole concept of RACES / ARES coming across as some "emergency response agency" seems inaccurate.

The services they actually provide are not consistent with all the "buzz" terminology they seem to use in their training manuals. I don't find any reference to the terms "Marathon, Bicycle Race, or Walk a Thon" indicated anywhere in these manuals.

In actual practice, it's really a pool of radio communication people for the sole purpose of supplying communications for non emergency "events."

Now perhaps it's just me but terms like "event" and "incident command" has a completely different meaning in my mind.

I once offered my assistance to the ARES/ RACES group. Even went to the extent of giving them a detailed description of my background and experiences in the field of emergency services.

For some odd reason, I never received a response back from them.

Hmmmmm... I think the silence clearly speaks for itself, don't you think?

The fact is, when it all comes down to hitting the rotary blades in the real world, qualified and trained professionals like ourselves would be much better off utilizing our advanced skills serving real emergency response agencies like the International Medical Corp.

http://www.imcworldwide.org/volunteer_policy.shtml

73

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W6TH on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

..
...........What don't mix to well:,,,,,,,,,,,

Cops and robbers.

Marriages and divorces.

Wealthy and the poor.

Drinking and driving.

religion and politics.

Techs and extra's.

Code no code.

Hobbies and services.

Why can't we all get along?

.:

RE: Assumptions

by RADIOGUYR2 on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Granted this isn't a "requirement" per se, but lets face it, the FCC *could* make millions of dollars from selling our spectrum to people willing to pay for (and don't think for a minute there wouldn't be a line a mile long of people willing to pay for most of our spectrum!)
------------------------------------------------------

what makes you think they have not already done so ?

look at the 220 band history

They don't line up or pay for the use of our bands. Where you been? Just what do you think them broadcast stations on our ham bands are doing. Heck even our own VOA (now dead) used to get on the 40 mtr band every night to broadcast proper-ganda. (politically correct) oh thats right they shouldn't be their because its a ham band.

And what about the other countries that allow voice in the CW section--

Geee you think the FCC is going to run right out and write them a citation? Dream on!!!

RE: Assumptions

by N3OX on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Why don't I volunteer? I used to... did bike races, a bit of storm spotting, that kind of thing.

Turns out we're not *all* needed there. Sometimes appreciated, but there are enough volunteers for the day to day stuff that enjoy the EMCOMM training, and have time for it.

That said, I have some charged deep cycle batteries, a HF vertical that will survive extremely severe weather because I telescope it down and keep it inside, materials to build more antennas if necessary, an extra HF rig and some extra V/UHF gear. I don't have a go kit, I don't have an entire station in a box that I only use for EMCOMM, but I could put together a respectable station even if the primary one gets ruined.

I am ready and willing to go if the time comes that there is a sufficiently severe emergency to require significant ham response, which can happen, but is rare. There's more to emergency response than knowing proper protocol and having proper credentials... there's a significant technical and operating skill component and just being an active ham gives you a substantial leg up on that.

I'll leave the drilling and emergency training to the guys and gals who particularly enjoy that aspect of the hobby, and I'll keep figuring out how to improve my worldwide communications capabilities through DXing and antenna building.

73,
Dan

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by WB2WIK on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

>RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer? Reply
by W6TH on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
..
...........What don't mix to well:,,,,,,,,,,,<

::Other things include moving and not informing the FCC by filing a status change...

W6TH still listed in Rosamond, CA.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by WB2WIK on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

>RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer? Reply
by AB0WR on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
I suspect you might even find a few on here that would not consider you a public volunteer unless you are going in with the next jump team at a forest fire in order to provide their communications.<

::Damn, good observation.

Anybody know how to get really bad smoke and soot stains out of a jump suit and parachute? This really stinks...

:-)

WB2WIK/6

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W6TH on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

..
WB2WIK,
::Other things include moving and not informing the FCC by filing a status change.
....................................................
This has been done with the exception I am not allowed to edit my QRZ.COM. I will renew my ticket this coming October and then will be off of QRZ.COM.

Wake up Steve as I have been aroung the ham fraternity more than 30 years over your amount of time.

W6TH/1
.:

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by WB2WIK on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

>RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer? Reply
by W6TH on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
..
WB2WIK,
::Other things include moving and not informing the FCC by filing a status change.
....................................................
This has been done with the exception I am not allowed to edit my QRZ.COM. I will renew my ticket this coming October and then will be off of QRZ.COM.

Wake up Steve as I have been aroung the ham fraternity more than 30 years over your amount of time.

W6TH/1
.:<

::That's nice, but I didn't look at QRZ.com. I looked at http://www.fcc.gov under their ULS amateur license data base, which as of this morning still showed you in California....

73

Steve WB2WIK/6

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by WB2WIK on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

FCC ULS database:

CHIARAPPA, VITO S, W6TH (Extra)
PO BOX 87
ROSAMOND, CA 93560
Issue Date: Dec 12, 1996
Expire Date: Dec 12, 2006
Date of last Change: Dec 12, 1996

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB9RQZ on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

"after the FCC drops code testing and I get to spend some time exploring the new spectrum I may look over this issue again, but frankly the treatment I have received as a Tech has not made me eager to volunteer

any more questions on the subject well if you like you contact me at kb9rqz@amsat.org"

Why is it the code that is hanging you up from volunteering now? Why are you waiting on the FCC to drop the code test as a condition of getting active with your local encomm group? Most local emergency communications activity will take place on the bands that you are already licensed for.

As a former member of Civil Defense ham radio liason (25 years) and a present RACES op and SKYWARN affiliate I can tell you that it does not take up a whole lot of time.

_______________
the forum could use an effective way of dealing with quotes

I don't feel I owe the ARS or the emcomos folks anything at this point certainly not till after I have gotten to use HF spectrum some Indeed I expect the end of code testing will put some extensive demans?requests on the time I use adio exploring the new trerain

you also did not check out where I live, indeed without access to HF spectrum bout half the activies are pretty much impossible and indeed the local emcom are hardly inteested in someone that can't operate on HF we are very rual around here

It is also not just emcom that will wait but the ffort of some club members to serve as an officer also will wait, I have served a aclub VP and President

the assmution seem to be I should want to volonteer , I don't, I am willing to spend some time there but not rpesently

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KE7AKS on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Here is my 2 pennies worth.
I started to volunteer here in Washington County Oregon for ARES, and they sent me e-mails about meetings etc. They tend to have many meetings in the middle of the day in the middle of the week! Old retired folks maybe can afford that time (I am 70 yrs old this year) but I have to work 4 days per week. The other thing is they want you to be equipped like a SURVIVALIST, have been schooled in ALL THE PROPER PROTOCOL for passing and receiving messages, be qualified for RED CROSS FIRST AID and CPR, have your own HIGH VISIBILITY VEST, probably perfeer you drive a HUMMER. Way over whelming to me...

Some of the benefits that some people don't think about ...
If your NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION is aginst ANTENNAS, You might convince them that it is in their intrest to have emergency radio service available in the neiighborhood. You do get free admission to some of the events.

I really wish I had the time to give for some of the training, but it is kind of like ham radio to take as much time as you will give it anyway.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KA1MDA on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I used to volunteer, but don't actively volunteer any more as I have no desire to be embarassed by the acts of other hams:

*Like the no-code tech (stationed at the EC) who decided to use his newly opened-up alinco HT to get on the local police repeater and ask for a weather/road condition report during a blizzard.

*Or the extra class ham who checked into a sky-watch net (they were trying to verify if a tornado had touched down) to report 3 helicopters from the local air base had just flown over his house.

*Or the ham who decided to jump out of his car and start directing traffic at a major intersection during a bike race. That intersection already had a cop there directing traffic- and this yo-yo's directions pretty much contradicted the cops!

*Or the ham who, after spending 3 hours handling traffic, asked someone in a QSO "What does CHECK mean?"

I could go on and on. The above problems all really occured in my locality. The problem is too many "volunteers" are either wanna-be cops or suffer from the "IF IM NOT TALKING, I'M NOT HELPING" mentality- which means they always find some excuse to drone on and on and on....

Also, have you ever read the posts on e-ham? If people can't tell the difference between too/to/two or there/their/they're, etc, how the heck do they expect to handle traffic? I can only imagine how many fill-ins are going to be needed before the letter count checks out!

I help out local hams privately for contests, special event stations, etc. However, after my past experiences, I have no desire to even be associated with the yo-yo's listed above or the organizations they represent. If communications are needed, I'll wait till all the yo-yo's kill their batteries reporting helicopter traffic or asking for road condition reports before thinking about checking in.

73, de Tom, KA1MDA
www.ka1mda.org

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W6TH on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

.
WB2WIK

Steve, you disappointed me and I thought you were a man of honor. You are a trouble maker.

My new FCC address is as follows:

CHIARAPPA, VITO S, W6TH (Extra)
PO BOX 55
Woodsville, NH 03785
Issue Date: Dec 12, 1996
Expire Date: Dec 12, 2006
Date of last Change: May 16, 2006.

Mail me a post card (QSL) and check it out.

.:

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K8MHZ on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

WV7R,

I spend quite a bit of time volunteering and asking many they question you posed.

As you specifically requested that only those that do not voluteer respond I will keep this to a brief thank you.

The thread has been extremely informative. Thanks to all for being honest and candid and thanks to WV7R for a super topic, probably the best I have seen in quite a while.

Undeliverable, Unable to Forward..

by KC8VWM on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I might as well throw in 20 cents in Vito's defense.

No offense to anyone or interruption intended here, but let's say I sent a letter to Vito's PO box today. Should I automatically assume that because he is not physically located in hands reach of his P.O. box that this somehow translates to mean that this same letter will automatically be returned by the Postal Service and classified as "undeliverable" and "unable to forward"?

What is required on file is a "current mailing address" not your actual operating location.

The commission made it abundantly clear recently that a violation occurs (by default) when the commission sends out a notice of violation and when that same notice is then returned back to them as undeliverable.

...Case for consideration.

I could be a traveling salesman / ham operator moving about the country living in an RV provided to me by my employer. This arrangement is necessary because I would be required to move my location every few weeks or perhaps even every few days at a time to various locations around the country, 365 days a year, so I might be able to attend various trade shows, conferences etc..etc... as required by my employer scenario.

...Do I ? (insert Jeopardy theme music here)

A) File a change of address with the FCC every few days when pulling up the RV anchors out from under the asphalt when moving my location?

- or -

B) Maintain a current mailing address such as a P.O. box and have my mail forwarded to me?

My apologies to the author in advance.

73

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KD7YVV on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Well, in all honesty, I don't feel as though I am needed.
With internet, high speed wireless, and FRS/GMRS all over
the place, (I even got a celltower in the olympic nat'l
forest!) ham radio just isn't needed as much in an
emergency anymore. There are too many other communications
options. A couple of years ago, I volunteered my time
to reading bulletins off the national hurricane center's
website over one of the echolink conferences.
I even taught a few other people how to do so, and it
was a pretty good net.
Last year and this year I listened, and guess what?
Not one person was doing what I was doing a couple of
years ago. I gained some good experience and it helped
me when I took the EmComm courses via ARRL.
It's nice to have the knowledge, but it's the
experience that's wanted. Nowdays, you need all these
certifications, courses and [s]pecialized [h]igh
[i]ntensity [t]raining and even then, you're not a
"real" emergency worker.
A lot of hams that get into emcomm are cop/fire
man wannabes that think they have some sort of
authority when they really have none.
Then there are the special ones. The ones that think
no job is beneath them and step up to the plate to
do what is needed. I've said it before, I'll say it
again, I'm not too proud to push a broom, fill a
sandbag or do any of the 'mundane' jobs that can
crop up during a storm or other emergency.
I do agree that hams and emcomm have a severe image
problem. If two hams came up to me, and one says,
"I'm here to provide communications", and the other
asks, "what can I do to help?" Which do you think I
would choose?
On the other side of the coin, a ham who has gone
through the courses required by an agency they're
going to serve, shows the agency that the ham is
willing to work within their guidelines and rules.
The served agency knows what to expect, and the ham
knows what's expected of them.
No served agency I've served with would ever bother
with the ham who shows up onscene who has no emergency
worker card. Many questions arise. Who are they?
What training do they have? Can they make the situation
worse? Are they a danger to my personnel and themselves? What if they get hurt? Who is responsible
for their care if they do?
Here in King County, if you have gone through the
training and have a current emergency worker card,
if you don't have a mission number when your pager
goes off, you do not under any circumstances deploy.
Ever. In case that's too hard to understand, unless
you have a mission number issued by the sheriff's
department, you sit on your fat ass and do not ever
deploy. You wait until you're given that number.
Once you have that mission number, you're covered
by the county's emergency worker's insurance policy.
I do comm duty for my local search & rescue, and I am
part of my local ARES.
It's good to work with the agencies I serve, and I like
keeping in touch with other hams I volunteer with
even if the ARES meetings are more of a social event
than an all-out training session most times.
I do have to laugh at two items I've seen on Hamsexy.
One was a letter practically begging hams not to
deploy, the other was about an ARES person whos bike
got run over by a fire truck.
Yes, hams and emcomm do have an image problem but
as I said, I'm not too proud to push a broom.

--KD7YVV, Kirkland, WA

RE: Undeliverable, Unable to Forward..

by W6TH on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

.
KC8VWM

Thanks, that is the way I read the FCC requirements and followed through.

73, Vito W6TH/1 NH.

.:

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N6PEH on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I have tried to understand what the EmmComms actually do in an emergency, no one, and I mean no one has given me a clear answer. I asked several people about what they did during Katrina, and all I got was a bunch of BS (provide emergency communications).

So I conclude thus far, EmmComm is a bunch over-the-hill boyscotts, that love to play radio, do drills, and follow their own procedures, but never really do anything during a real emergency. I know this may burn a lot guys buns out there. In fact I expect it will. In my book, the only thing EmmComms do is talk to each other at an event or incident, train, and become really defensive when you try to nail them down on what it is they really do in a disaster.

You read the stories of hams who went to Katrina, and how hard it was to get there, and what horrible conditions there were, and where they had to sleep, and what they had to eat, and when their shift got relieved, and how tired they were, and then we provided emergency communications to the EOC.

The last sentence does not tell me anything. But to most EmmComms, that is all that needs to be said. Wrongo, not for this guy. That is why I am not interested.

EmmCom has done a very bad job of selling what it is they do.

RE: Undeliverable, Unable to Forward..

by KX8N on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Sorry, Vito, but the FCC still has you in California.

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=813902

Why Don't YOU Volunteer? A Conclusion.

by AI2IA on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

So, after a long thread on this issue, what may we conclude? Has anything meaningful come from all of this?
There is a large pool of potential volunteers out there.
There is an even larger pool of ex-volunteers who were bruised by their volunteer experiences.
Therefore, it is entirely up to those seeking and managing ham volunteers to make these experiences meaningful, worthwhile, and rewarding in some sense for these volunteers. Otherwise, do the best you can with professional Emcoms and other personnel.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by BIPTL on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

WB2WIK,
::Other things include moving and not informing the FCC by filing a status change.
....................................................

::That's nice, but I didn't look at QRZ.com. I looked at http://www.fcc.gov under their ULS amateur license data base, which as of this morning still showed you in California....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now that is some nice, petty, busy-body work on someones part. It takes a socially inept personality ---like can only be found among the HAM radio crowd --- to call someone down in a public forum over a minor issue and continue the pettiness for more than one posting.

Ahhhh...the HAM radio folks.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KX8N on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

"So, after a long thread on this issue, what may we conclude? Has anything meaningful come from all of this? "

No, not really. Regardless of their reasons, some people will volunteer, and other's won't. It's real easy to pile too much stuff on those willing to volunteer for anything, and by the end of the day, those who were so willing to help are so exhausted by their workload that they want nothing to do with it anymore. Take a new ham, give him the dirty job that nobody else wants (and he's too new to realize), and next year you won't see that ham return.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K2LES on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I can say this much about volunteering... I was the Chief an auxiliary/reserve police type of unit for a small town for a couple of years.

I had badges, uniforms, weapons, peace officer authority, flashing red lights, the ability to get out of speeding tickets, all that good stuff to give people and I could barely find breathing bodies to sign up for it - let alone qualified people who would pass muster.

Volunteer fire departments and ambulance squads are seeing their numbers decline and are starting to hire full time people to fill the voids.

On top of that - in most volunteer organizations you have 10% of the people doing 90% of the work and getting people to show up to various events is a futile effort. People are dropping out all the time because they're bored, want to be in charge but don't want to wait their turn, or simply don't have the time anymore.

We're simply in a day and age where there's too much going on at work and home to give back to our communities.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KC8VWM on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I prefer the dirty task of being assigned cleanup detail after emcomm events myself.

Usually if you scrounge around a bit, you can usually find some pretty good donuts, free coffee, potato chips, cheese, salmon patte, DX chille and other similar leftovers after such events.

Just some food for thought.

:)

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KC0RDG on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

It's a hobby to me - one which involves talking to other operators for fun using a variety of communication methods (digital, voice, cw, etc.)

The whole 'emcomm/parade volunteer/etc' aspect does NOT appeal to me in ANY way, shape or form.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by NB3O on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

KA1MDA wrote:
"If people can't tell the difference between too/to/two or there/their/they're, etc, how the heck do they expect to handle traffic? I can only imagine how many fill-ins are going to be needed before the letter count checks out!"

The XYL heard me laughing all the way from the shack 100 feet from the house!!
Thanx, Tom, you made my night. 73 de NB3O

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N6AJR on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

what a waste of bandwidth, this was put here to draw negative comments..

trolling for negativity, "If you already vollenteer, don't post how you do it, this is to find out why folks don't

what a pretense for an article, and this improves Ham radio how??

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by OBSERVER11 on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I've been a volunteer for over 30 years...

I can see WHY some do not volunteer, in this day of ANTI-ham radio by local governments and HOAs, I can fully understand the "why should I bother" attitude.

Also, as a long time volunteer, I fully understand why some may have hurt feelings. A disaster job is organized kaos. If you just show up to volunteer and no one knows your abilities, you will be sent packing. The job director does not need an additional load on the system. If you do not want to be sent away next time, volunteer now, take the stupid courses, jump thru the hoops, and next time, you will be the one staying and the other guy that did not make the effort will be sent packing.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KC8VWM on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

People are dropping out all the time because they're bored, want to be in charge but don't want to wait their turn.

--------

Interesting comment and a few constructive thoughts.

I think it's probobly because what people really want out of emcomm is to get a sense of satisfaction out of what they are doing.

The problem with some groups is that it has a militant "seriousness" as the driving force behind the group.

The idea of simply getting a group together and volunteering for some crappy non essential jobs just for the "fun" of it is simply not there.

The expectations are that we are saving the world using radio equipment.

Quite frankly.., No it isn't - it's a crappy volunteer job. So what is i going to be? Are you in or what?

What emmcom needs is an injection to make these events "fun" for it's participants. You know.. that word F-U-N.?

For example, why not offer the idea of contest.

Worst handled message traffic award.

Slowest response to net control award.

Most directionally challenged award.

Get together just to have a few laughs and lay off all the "emergency service" duplication, rules, qualification requirements and regulations..blah blah blah emcomm coaching etc. a little bit.

Volunteers are not superheros, just ordinary people that want to help out other people. Your not going to suceed if you ram FEMA ICS requirements etc. down people's throats.

Take another approach. Attract volunteers by using other tactical methods like introducing yourself to people in person. Thank them for attending and shake thier hand. Make them feel like people. Welcome them and show them you are happy to see them. Crack a few jokes and loose the "I am Mr.Emcomm and your not" stance and attitude. Your simply scaring them away with that approach.

Take a few courses in the art of "communication." No not the amateur radio kind, the people skill kind. Be entertaining and listen to people when they are speaking about something. Don't be controlling and degrade them in front of other people or take over the entire discussion just because you have been doing this, this way for a million years scenerio.

I have often observed "snubbery" exhibited by some net controllers during an emcomm event directed toward a volunteer during these events. Let me be very explicit for a moment. This is a very quick and effective method to lose an otherwise perfectly good volunteer for ANY organization.

Yes, it's true that some people report "irrelevancy" on these nets however keep in mind they are just there helping you out and deserve your upmost respect at the end of the day regardless of thier particular level of operating skill.

Some people find emcom "way too serious"
for some people to even bother. Ask yourself what these people would like to get out of it.

Perhaps a good evaluation and new approach in handling volunteers in a more respectful approaGive praise to your volunteers. No no one is ever perfect and emcomm communication is not supposed to be a competetive communication bloodsport.

People like to hear praise as it encorages them to become better operators. Some hams have a tendancy to openly criticise people even over the air on some of these nets in the presence of 30 or 40 other individuals. Now ask yourself. Will that same volunteer be back next month to help out do you think?

It's the smaller things that will keep them interested and participating.

Have I hit on any subject matter anyone else wishes to further elaborate in a constructive manner?

73

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KB4YKJ on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

First of all I do not volunteer my time which is precious to my family to be insulted & be shown I must kiss the local butt of the club to even be accepted. I refuse to attend any training class and pay a fee for it just for the privilidge to work for free.

Local governments do not want us. We are a hobby. I got into this to make world wide contacts and meet new friends. Not to go through what is required for this "community service".

Change the club structure, change the training, learn how to treat ham operators that arn't in the click and things might change.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KA2DDX on August 30, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

The second question asked here is how do we get more people to volunteer in their local communities?

The other night, I attended an open house for parents at the local high school. One of the group meetings involved a presentation by the school booster club. Basically, they invited anyone and everyone to join and participate in any way they cared to, no strings attached.

Local Clubs: food for thought? Just asking...........

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K4KLB on August 30, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

1. I'm married.
2. Have 1 child.
3. My "local" club is 40 minutes away.
4. Our club meeting, SKYWARN, ARES/RACES are all seprate meeting dates. How many meetings do you need?
5. I like my hobby, not passing out cups to sweaty bike riders.
6. If I wanted to be a emergency dispatcher that would have been my profession.
7. I have classes every Tues, Thurs, and Sat.
8. My time at home is limited enough
9. When an emergency strikes I will be busy enough taking care of myself. ie Hurricane Isabelle.....9 days no electricity and a flooded basement.
10. I'm ACTIVE DUTY NAVY and I'm a VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER w/ TWO fire departments in my area. I do provide back to my community and my country.

K4KLB

At least read #10.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N8QBY on August 30, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Leave it to the professionals for emergencies. Besides, there must be a contest somewhere for hams to attend to, maybe an 11 meter contest. :o)

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K8MHZ on August 30, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I gained a lot of info here.

We have a pretty good group in Western MI. The numbers rise and fall and I am getting a good idea why. Actually the posts here have done much to confirm my suspicions.

I have noticed that our numbers rise and fall depending on who is leading the group. When we have low numbers we have a leader that obviously deficient in some manner. Some people have a poor presence with public service. The reasons can range from excessive wannabeeism to poor appearance and lack of interpersonal skills. Another reason is a lack of trust. Also included is the perception by the members that important issues are being overlooked while other issues take precedence. For instance spending endless hours trying to drone NIMS and ICS into the heads of members that are wondering why the ARES repeater doesn't work and there is no reason for it other than inattention.

When our numbers are high we have had leaders that are very easy to approach, have a high level of intelligence and *VERY IMPORTANT* and good sense of humor. The successful leaders make sure that the training and events are FUN as well as informative. The good leader won't put members into situations where they are overloaded. Good leaders don't force club or ARRL membership on their volunteers. A good leader governs over training and events that are so cool when people hear about them they are unhappy they missed out.

I would like to address those here that would like to be an asset to their community using ham radio and don't want to join the existing organization. It may be time to start a new one. If you think the problems of the existing organization are insurmountable and consequently render that organization useless it is obvious that a small group of good communicators with their own equipment can be valuable under certain circumstances. A new small group can be an adjunct to the existing ARES type orgs and I suggest that as burning bridges is not good PR. Your group would be best to specialize in some area and become the very best. Give demos and invite key personnel. If you do this it you won't be hindered by the politics of the larger groups and can keep yours limited to the very best for the task. Keep the group small and concentrate on being productive. Quality is better than quantity.

I know this works and how it worked for me turned out to be a bit different than I expected. A decade ago I was not happy with our ARES leader. There was a search for a missing girl going on and the State PD wanted our help. Our EC was friends with the Sheriff and would not send us out. I found out about this, told the best operators we had about it and we agreed to form a new group and work with the State PD. When the DEC found out about it he immediately fired the EC and appointed a new one. The new one did a fantastic job and our ARES group grew to easily 4 times the size it was at that point.

I did not expect that. I thought I would get the "if you think you can do better, go right ahead" routine and I was bound and determined to do just that.

A small group of four skilled amateurs can be an asset to their community if they have a skill that is appealing to the paid providers of emergency services.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KC8VWM on August 30, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Well said Mark.

73

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by USCG_RMC on August 30, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I have been in emergency communications all my life (military and public safety (911) dispacher).I have been a ham for 20 years (with a brief break).

I am retired now, and 'volunteer' with the local ARES, and with the county CERT program. I have the time, some don't. Whether you volunteer on a regular basis or pick up the slack when it hits the fan, I believe most every ham would be there when needed.

In both ARES and CERT the first thing they teach is that your family and home come first, once you are secure in their safety, them 'deploy'. You are no good to anyone if you and yours are not safe.

The last exercise our county EMC ran was, communications wise, a cluster...

It seemed that there was more of a rag chewing mentality than the clarity and brevity required. Both the HT circuit and the GMRS/FRS circuit was a logjam.

The NCS apparently had never run a net before, and they did not keep an experienced op at his/her side.

And the only answer the ARES rep had was that we needed a portable repeater. I assume the repeater would be set up at the communications tent, which means if the HT signals can reach the repeater, they could reach the NCS.

I must be missing something in the translation.

Herb/K0HEA

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by WB2WIK on August 30, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

>RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer? Reply
by W6TH on August 29, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
.
WB2WIK

Steve, you disappointed me and I thought you were a man of honor. You are a trouble maker.

My new FCC address is as follows:

CHIARAPPA, VITO S, W6TH (Extra)
PO BOX 55
Woodsville, NH 03785
Issue Date: Dec 12, 1996
Expire Date: Dec 12, 2006
Date of last Change: May 16, 2006.<

::That's good. You of all people should understand I was jerking your chain for your own good, in case you had forgotten to update. It's easy to forget, and I was reminding you. If it's done, it's done, and I'm glad you rememebered!

Interestingly, as of yesterday the ULS data base still showed you in California...I didn't check today, but if you updated in May, that's weird.

73

Steve WB2WIK/6

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by AD1OS on August 30, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

The last club meeting I ever went to featured a speaker on "volunteer emergency communicators". In his talk, he stressed how important it was to take the ARRL's courses on the subject. All I did was ask if I had to be an ARRL member to take them. Wow, what a reaction. I was also surprised that he had little knowlege of ICS (or NIMS). I was looking for a place to used what I've learned in 30 years of fire service, but it wasn't there.

W6TH...warning...

by WB2WIK on August 30, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

FCC ULS data base as of today, August 30, 2006 still shows you in Rosamond, CA.

You say you found yourself listed with the NH address on the FCC website?

How did that happen?

Something weird's going on...

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W2RJJ on August 30, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Count me as one who maintains an Amateur Radio station solely because I like tinkering with things technical.

I've read about RACES/ARES (lot's of good covereage in QST and CQ), but my interest goes no further. There's no particular reason. It's just the way I feel.

RE: W6TH...warning...

by K8MHZ on August 30, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

"Something weird's going on..."

Not really if you consider the possibilities.

The first (and I feel the least probable) possibility is that Vito never sent anything in and is spinning us a yarn. I personally think that if Vito wasn't going to send the FCC the info he would have no hesitation about telling us here on eHam where to stick it either. His ofttimes challenged openness almost certainly precludes this possibility.

Now let's say that he filled out the paperwork and sent them to the FCC via USPS. Delivery can take anywhere from 2 days to 5 months depending on whether or not the papers go through Chicago. (Personal experience with important paper en route from this QTH to Guatemala....Chicago intercepts and passes to Detroit. Detroit fumbles and the refs flag the play. Officials from Lansing are called and important papers are found in Detroit. The added time almost screws up an adoption.)

Foregoing the above, let's say the paperwork arrives at the FCC and it is read by the same person that read my attempt for a vanity call sign. New paperwork will be returned with a notification that it is too early to renew, which is not what either of us intended to do. If that is the case he should find out about it in a few short weeks as I did.

The most important issue is that we here on eHam have Vito's current valid address. If the FCC doesn't bother to check here they don't want to find him very bad. And so what? He's not ruffling the feathers of anyone on the radio, just here.

RE: W6TH...warning...

by K8MHZ on August 30, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

"Something weird's going on..."

Spooky indeed. To think that eHam is more up to date than the FCC...

RE: W6TH...warning...

by WB2WIK on August 30, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

CFR 47 Part 97 is pretty explicit in its meaning regarding location changes.

You have ten days to enter a change of address to FCC if you move...period.

It has nothing whatever to do with mailing addresses.

Every time I've moved (which is about 20 times now) I've sent in a COA. Now that they're somewhat computerized, it's easier than ever. Used to cost a postage stamp, now it's free.

WB2WIK/6

RE: W6TH...warning...

by KC8VWM on August 30, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

You have ten days to enter a change of address to FCC if you move...

----------

"Change of address" doesn't necessarily mean if "you move" pe se in the traditional sense of the thought, but rather it only applies to a change in your actual "mailing address."

The rules do not state "a change in your operating location."

...Not the same thing.

Here's the rules:
---------------------------

§ 97.23 Mailing address.

(b) Each license grant must show the grantee's correct name and mailing address. The mailing address must be in an area where the amateur service is regulated by the FCC and where the grantee can receive mail delivery by the United States Postal Service.

---------------------------

That's what the rules say. "Mailing address."

"Correct mailing address" means a physical location, PO box, or any other arrangement where the individual can receive correspondence from the FCC at any time without it being sent back as "undeliverable"

For example a person might be employed in China as a consultant for a period of 1 year. He moves to China and maintains a US mailing address. The fact that he didn't notify the FCC that he moved to China is irrelevant if he maintains a US Postal Address.

Undeliverable mail routing on the other hand is considered as an "incorrect" mailing address. This would be considered as grounds for license revocation. Moving your physical operating location without notifying the FCC is not considered a violation. For example, if I move to Florida for 6 months out of the years I am not required to notify the FCC as long as my mailing address remains current.

Although, it's usually good practice to use a unique identifier at the end of your call sign so others know your callusing prefix doesn't necessarily reflect your actual operating location..

Doubts? ...Ask Riley yourself.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N0AH on August 30, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Speak for yourself-

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W4LGH on August 31, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Being the EX-EC of this county, I gave it up because it was completely "THANK-LESS" and the politics got to be more than I could stand! Could have continued to live with the "Thank-lessness" but the politics was way over the top! Putting up with the politics and getting paid is one thing, but volunteering to do so was COMPLETELY INSANE! My own mental health was worth more than that.

I will continue to help doing my own thing, from my own radio room, relaying calls, making phone calls etc.

I wish ARES the best, but I can no longer see how it can survive.

73 de W4LGH - Alan

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KA3VSP on August 31, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I used to be extremely active in the ham community and clubs. I belonged to several clubs at one time. Participated on the Board in almost every club, ran hamfests, field days, swapnets, etc.

Unfortunately, as time went by people started to volunteer me for certain tasks not even asking me if I could do it. Then, when I couldn't follow through I was the bad guy. People just got it in their heads that I would take care of everything. This is common in clubs in every hobby I belong. This is also known as the 80/20 rule.

If the same people keep doing the same jobs then they WILL get burned out. New blood is needed on a regular basis.

I've been out of ham radio for 5 years or more. I'm starting to come back but I won't be joining any clubs. Does this sound selfish? Maybe to you but you'll have to walk in my shoes to understand.

Best,
Brian

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KD7YVV on August 31, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

For the person who asked what emcomm does when asked to
volunteer, my answer for me is, "whatever I am capable
of doing in order to serve the served agency."
If it's something I cannot do, then I let them know
that. It's the agency that's in charge.
In some ways I agree that some standardization is needed
because of the lessons learned by 9/11 and Katrina.
During 9/11, everyone's radios had different frequencies
and no one could talk to each other. Police could only
talk to police, etc etc....
The ICS courses are also part of that standardization.
Granted, there are some that think they shouldn't have
to take a course just to volunteer, but look at the
questions posed in my last post. If you have those
courses, you could introduce yourself to a served agency
in another county perhaps, and they would know what
type of training you've had because they had to go
through the same training.
Keeps everyone on the same page....
If hams want to be a part of emcomm, then they'll
have to play by the same rules as everyone else.
Oh, and for the ham that said he'd never volunteer
at a bike race handing water to a sweaty cyclist.....
You really don't know what you're missing.
I don't volunteer for every living event that comes up
but I do once in a while. Keeps me in touch with the
human race.
"It is written, no man knows how many lives he touches
by meeting with just one other person."

--KD7YVV, Kirkland, WA

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KC8VWM on August 31, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I don't volunteer for every living event that comes up but I do once in a while. Keeps me in touch with the human race.

--------

Well sure that's a very nobel thing to do.

But the requirement to "volunteer" still involves the idea that you need to have numerous course under your belt you mentioned to be a participating member.

I have taken the FEMA courses myself and they send you some nice certificates in the mail for the ham shack wall, but I still fail to see how that training is even relevant for these sort of civic functions.

The point being is that these agencies go out of thier way to inform everyone joining that they will be involved in "emergency communications" and waiting for the "big one" to happen some day, when the reality is that it's just a bunch of bicycle races, walkathons and marathon events you will be involved with at the end of the day.

So, I guess I am wondering why volunteers need FEMA and ARRL courses under thier belts if all they are going to be doing is handing out water bottles to sweaty guys riding hogs?

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KN4LF on August 31, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I volunteered to be in the U.S. Coast Guard and was injured.

I volunteered to be a Police Officer and Corrections Officer and was crippled for life.

I am currently an active member of the National Weather Service Tampa Bay Ruskin, FL Skywarn program. I've been involved with Skywarn for the past 20 years.

I voluntarily built and maintain numerous websites on radiowave propagation, antenna construction, weather and the digital modes going back to 1998.

I volunteered to be the Webmaster of my local amateur radio club's website.

I volunteered to be in Navy/Marine Corps/Coast Guard MARS (NNN0HUS) but was bored to tears at the lack of a real mission.

Now it's somebody else's turn to volunteer. Go get 'em.

73,
Thomas Giella, KN4LF
Lakeland, FL, USA
www.kn4lf.com

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N5RLR on September 1, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Here's a question for the assembled multitude...

What if, for whatever reason, an Amateur Radio operator is not "certified" or "registered" with anyone local; and an emergency arises where backup communications are needed and said Amateur offers his/her [communications] services? Is he/she going to be turned away?

Methinks someone will be getting the *MOTHER* of all butt-chewings if he/she is.

* * * * * * * * * *

Based upon my experience, Police/Fire personnel really don't trust anyone unknown to them.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K8MHZ on September 1, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

"What if, for whatever reason, an Amateur Radio operator is not "certified" or "registered" with anyone local; and an emergency arises where backup communications are needed and said Amateur offers his/her [communications] services? Is he/she going to be turned away?"

Around here it depends upon the person in question. Our training has shown that there are several hams in our area that we simply can't trust. They make up stories and try to force their way into areas where they should not be. Some of them are just plain trouble makers. To learn about these folks before a real disaster is one of the often overlooked assets of training.

The hams with training would most likely end up in one of the EOCs or sent to establish field stations.

If hams showed up that we did not know they probably would be treated like anyone 'off the street' and would likely get mundane jobs under direct supervision. Only those with training would be allowed to use equipment not belonging to them such as in the EOCs, hospitals and FDs.

We would be reluctant to allow someone we have never heard of on a net that is operating under methods established by training. A disaster is not the time to teach someone net protocol. Our take would be if they wanted to be in this position they would have taken the training and worked with us before. If not, oh well, but they should not expect to be in the forefront of communications with no training. Especially since most hams like to yak. A large part of our training is learning how to keep it short and if that is not possible moving to another frequency or using a digital mode instead. Having someone on an emergency frequency that just won't shut up is much worse than not having them at all in most cases.

During training we also cover what can and cannot or should not be said on the air. We cover means outside amateur radio that may be used for secure communications. We cover proper ID as the use of tactical calls is the norm here. We cover the difference between tactical station calls and tactical operator calls. We rely on 'break tags' to reduce radio traffic and some instruction on their proper use is needed.

There is NTS training as well, but my experience has been that NTS is too slow for use in a busy environment. We use NTS when it is a good tool for the job. We rely on training and experience to make the decision on when to use it or not. Someone that had only used NTS and had no training under 'heavy fire' where NTS would fail may be surprised to find out they would not be needed to pass traffic. Training would have told them so.

I hope this clarifies our position, at least.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by WV7R on September 1, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

That is an interesting question. Unfortunately, there is no easy answer. The disposition of the "emergant ham population" has changed since 9-11. Each jurisdiction has made decisions based on their own perception of the requirements being placed on them by FEMA and Homeland Security. Then of course, you have what the policy says as opposed to what they actually do in an emergency. Since actual emergencies and activations are relatively rare, your question in a real sense may not actually be answered until the you-know-what hits the fan!

But as a point of reference, here in the Seattle area the policy is that unless you are credentialed as a State of Washington Emergency worker or are credentialed by a local or county governmental agency, you will likely be turned away if you come forward during an actual declared emergency. This is not to say that you may be used in some other way, but it is very un-likely that you would be used in any manner that would require you be allowed into restricted areas of any kind. These are NOT policies that individual amateur teams have put into place, these are directives from the various Emergency Management agencies within the state. However, as another writer has already noted, it may be quite interesting to see how these policies are actually applied when an actual wide-spread emergency actually happens.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KI4BNP on September 1, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Ditto

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by OBSERVER11 on September 1, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I've turned many a volunteer away. We did try to find something for them to do, unload trucks, park canteens, inventory the warehouse or refill canteens - always need fresh coffee! But unless the person was KNOWN to the EC or job director, or comm officer, they did not get to play radio.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by WR8D on September 1, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Some of us have to work for a living, simple as that. The other reason for me is i leave it to the professionals, to the people getting paid to do it. If they need us they'll call. If you want to do something worth while then join one of the mars groups. You'll pass traffic from our service people over seas etc. You'll get to handle traffic on hf under all kinds of band conditions, but you won't get to wear those goofy little patches on your jacket and run around with 5 ht's on your belt, or talk down to others due to your superior enhanced ego. The professionals will call too, they have here several times. The best impression an amateur can make is stay out of the way until they want us. My two cents: Have a great labor day weekend!!! 73 John WR8D: "take those propellers off ur damn hats too". --... ...--

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KD7YVV on September 1, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I understand what you mean, there are some events that
really don't require a lot of the training.
For instance, I'm mostly blind, and do comm duty for
my local search & rescue. Why in God's green earth would
I need a helicopter safety course?
I still don't understand that one.....yet I had to take
it to keep my emergency worker card current.
I think most times, that those in power supposedly are
really out of touch with things. What's it been, 5
years since 9/11 and we still haven't got Bin Laden?
I agree with you, it doesn't take a rocket scientist
to hand a bottle of water out to a cyclist speeding by.
I look at it this way, as long as I don't have to pay
for these courses, it gives me something to do too.

--KD7YVV, Kirkland, WA

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KE7CFA on September 1, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Seems to me, this has been visited before. I do remember stating why I don't volunteer, so I won't bore you (or .--. .. ... ... you off again).

However, when I am able (Extra License) I will volunteer to the club that helped me 'get there'. They've been square with me, turn abouts fare play.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W3LK on September 2, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

<< What if, for whatever reason, an Amateur Radio operator is not "certified" or "registered" with anyone local; and an emergency arises where backup communications are needed and said Amateur offers his/her [communications] services? Is he/she going to be turned away? >>

I don't care about local affilliation; I DO care about skills. I won't turn them away, but if they have no proof of ARRL communications courses or proof of practical ECOM experience, such as MARS membership, they probably won't be on the radio(s) for me. They will be put to work emptying trash cans, loading and unloading, and running foot errands.

An actual disaster event is NOT the time nor place for untrained volunteers and it is both unreasonable and stupid to expect otherwise.

73,

Lon - W3LK
Baltimore, Maryland

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by AI2IA on September 2, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

An actual disaster event is NOT the time nor place for untrained volunteers and it is both unreasonable and stupid to expect otherwise. - W3LK

An actual disaster can be an event where anyone, licensed or unlicensed, has the need and the right to go on the air. In a post disaster situation, by this I mean after the immediate event has passed, that is when you get all your first responders and radio support people on the air. If they can handle it, fine. If they can't handle it, baby, you are on your own!

If I witness an emergency taking place, I am not going to wait for the civil government folks, or certified Emcoms to do something. If I see a house on fire and people inside, I am not going to wait for civil government fire personnel or certified rescue squad volunteers to arrive to pull them out. Remember New Orleans!

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by AI2IA on September 2, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

There is something missing in all this discussion of "Why you don't volunteer." I have seen the word "volunteer" used extensively in this thread, but I do not recall seeing the word "commitment." It is just overlooked, but it is the real key to this discussion. You see, when you volunteer you must make a personal commitment. Now to volunteer sounds generous enough, and like a good thing to do, but to make a personal commitment justly turns on a warning light. You should never take a commitment lightly, because you are expected to live up to it, especially at times of inconvenience to yourself. Ah, now we are getting close to reality! So, if you enter it sincerely and with your eyes open to the fact that you will be expected to "be there" when the going may get tough, then go ahead and make that personal commitment. In any case, if you are a ham of principle, make your personal commitments sparingly.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by G3RZP on September 3, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Volunteering is more than emergency communications. Indeed, EMCOMM is not the reason for ham radio.
See Article 1 definition 53 of the ITU Radio Regulations, repeated in US 47CFR part97.

amateur service: A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, by duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.

There are lots of people volunteering - QSL managers, OOs, Intruder Watch, and those who give up vacation to represent ham radio at bodies like ITU, CEPT, CITEL and so on. These guys are the unrecognised volunteers. Without some of these people, there wouldn't be any frequencies for EMCOM or anything else. Sure, you might get an administration allocate something like a CB band, but you wouldn't have satellites and you wouldn't have HF.

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K8MHZ on September 3, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

G3RZP,

Please read FCC 97.1(a)

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KE7CFA on September 4, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Allan - WV7R

May I, respectfully, ask what the point is? If people are going to volunteer, they will. Those that don't (like myself) will not.

I have read FCC 97.1(a), and I see no reference to ARES/RACES, EcomCon or any requirement that I 'join' them or any other group that serves a government agency.

I am way to busy working, tending to earthly matters and upgrading my license to volunteer to 'empty the trash'.

73

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by W3LK on September 4, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

AI2IA:

< An actual disaster can be an event where anyone, licensed or unlicensed, has the need and the right to go on the air. In a post disaster situation, by this I mean after the immediate event has passed, that is when you get all your first responders and radio support people on the air. If they can handle it, fine. If they can't handle it, baby, you are on your own! >>

It is exactly this attitude that causes major headaches for many served agencies in a disaster. There is NO right to be on the air and add to the confusion and chaos that often occurs during the first critical hours or days. You are just the type of ham that I would quickly put to work sweeping floors or making coffee and would not let anywhere near my agency's radio room.

BTW, there's a VAST difference in coming upon a burning building and being a part of an organized and coordinated communications network.

73,

Lon - W3LK
Baltimore, Maryland

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KL7FH on September 5, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

G3RZP,
Right on Peter!
Cheers!

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K2JX on September 5, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I agree with another Ham who said it best, he has no interest in the public service or volunteer aspect of the HOBBY. I've been a VE,FD commitee member, local club member and part of the repeater commitee, I've done public service, the New York City Marathon, 10k runs,I've been a volunteer E.M.T ambulance worker, et al..ad nauseum.

All the while I've never been one to think Ham radio was meant to be anything but a HOBBY. I don't believe HAM radio will "save" the world. I do thank those who volunteer thier time in ARES, RACES, Satern. Your great!

But, it's not what a lot of us feel Ham Radio is all about. I stopped volunteering for all of the above, I've done "my" thing, all the while not seeing many new faces, the same workers doing the work, hey where do they find the time ?

I've gotten worn thin with the excuse " I'll have to see what the XYL says " before I commit. Why blame your XYL, just say NO, it's easier, when your asked to volunteer your time.

Ham radio is not alone in having a hard time getting volunteers, many other hobby groups are experiencing the same thing.

73, Jack K2JX

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by N6AFV on September 5, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

My, my, my! It sure seems a lot of people got their knickers in a knot over some simple straightforward questions. Over and over I read replies that said something like, "I think you are implying that I'm not a REAL ham because I don't volunteer..."
Please go back and re-read the original post. It is nothing more than a simple request to understand better one of the major issues of volunteering.
I did not see ANYTHING that implied lesser status or character to those who don't volunteer in the original post. It looks to me as if it was a simple, "Why don't you volunteer?" I read it as a genuine attempt to understand why so many don't volunteer (and note that the question didn't cover just emergencies) for community-service events. The anger and venom that resulted seemed way out of proportion to the question.

My answer would be, I have other things (primarily work and family) that make it very difficult to be a consistent volunteer, but I would be interested in occasional things such as bike rides or (as I did this year for the first time) a long-distance relay race.
There - wasn't that easy?

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by VA7HYD on September 8, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

As a new ham, this thread provoked a bit of soul searching on my part.

Let me relate my experiences thus far. I attended a club meeting a couple of weeks ago. The club exec I'd met before have been very welcoming, but none of the "guys" came over and introduced themselves after the meeting was over.. neither did the guy asking for help with comms for a community event. At no point during the meeting did the topic of, "Welcome to new members" come up.

I'm not saying all clubs are like that.I met members of another club during Field Day who were more than happy to introduce themselves and went out of their way to welcome me and made sure I had the phone number and email for the examiner when I expressed an interest in writing the exam... while they were trying to get an antenna mounted on a mast. The club pres went out of his way to make sure I had the opportunity to write the exam.

I'm on the executive for an RC Airplane club. Each meeting has a "Welcome to New Members" portion. We go for coffee and doughnuts after the meetings and any "newbie" is told where coffee will be after the meeting and is invited to join the crowd. When I first joined that club several years ago the executive introduced themselves, a number of the "guys" made the point of introducing themselves and pointed out who the instructors, executive and safety officer were. They asked where I lived, what my particular interests were and introduced me to the club members who lived near me.. who in turn, volunteered their help if I had any questions.

I'm a shift worker. I work days, evenings, weekends. My wife is a shift worker and we have young children.
If I choose to volunteer my limited free time, which club am I going to choose to be more involved with?

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KC8IKW on September 9, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

you would like to know why i dont volunteer my time to any thing i find that most hams are stuff shirts meaning that losely i have tryed donating my time to help those in need or i have tryed makeing aware to this find city of lincoln park mi of what a little slice of what ham radio is about did not get no where i all so find that most hams are simpley 11 meter oper.with a ham lic. like the staion on the freq.145.670 siplex steve casper n8swz he is the worst oper. the putty mouth that i have ever herad i will cuss you even ocre the he dont care about his lic. or what he represents thank you for asking my oppion on this matter and please excues the spelling from kc8ikw joseph m. strauss

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KC8IKW on September 9, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

ihad all so forgot to mention if these ham clubs would like to have folks be a member then why dont they have a little bit more of a welcoming look on have new members like when you here a hand full of folks on the air but when i put my call out there every one disapers some thing wrong with that we want more members but what is the since of being a member when there is no one to talk to

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KC8IKW on September 9, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Please forgive the last message and its grammar,spelling errors.....
I would not become a member of a "group" only because of the noncomederie in the " world of operators" I can sit here at my station for hours and throw my call out there and no one will respond.
There are station operators out there one in particular who lives in my area that really has no business operating does any one do anything about it... no and you call this a "family" ?! Certainly,any operator with children would not want this "gentleman" in their homes with his profane language and obvious lack of radio ediquette. There must be a set of standards to be adhered to by all who have access to these radios.
When these standards are enforced only then will I entertain the thought of volunteering. These miscreants are ruining it for the honest operator.

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KD8DQK on September 10, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I'll try not to appear snippy about this subject. First of all, the last emergency we had was at the Sago mine. Yeah, that was only a couple of miles from my house but I had no clue about how to help and was told I would just get in the way. After all, we had to make room for CNN.

Anyway, I contacted the state authority of ARES but didn't get much of a response. "Join ARRL." That's it? WOW! And I was promised that my local ARES person would contact me, but they never did. Evidently because I didn't join ARRL yet. Is that a requirement?

Next point: it's a hard fact of life that some people have to work for a living to support their families. It would be nice to do ham stuff whenever I want but unfortunately it doesn't work like that.

Lots of people work 40-hour weeks. My occupation requires me to work in excess of 100 hours per week and be on call anytime i'm home. Most of the time I work, eat, sleep. Repeat. The oil and gas field has been good to me over the last 13 years and I make a very good living. But there are certain requirements that outweigh everything else.

THAT's why I don't volunteer.

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

KD8DQK
Buckhannon, WV

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by KD8DQK on September 10, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

Still fired up so here's some more reasons I don't volunteer:

1. I have a wife.

2. I have TWO teenage daughters who actively participate in extracarricular activities. They are my priority.

3. I have to work.

4. The public people won't answer my calls and emails. Therefore my services are not required. I will not kiss ass in order to vulunteer. Period.

5. I enjoy sexual relations occasionally with said wife.

6. I am permitting an 80-foot tower currently. I have the equipment. I will soon be on HF. I have a phone and people know me. If I am needed someone will tell me.

7. I spend more time at work than with my family. Sad but true. Deal with it.

8. My license does not state that this is a requirement.

9. Volunteering is all about communication. The regional ARES person told me she would forward my email to my local ARES person. Somewhere there was a breakdown in communication. Why should I volunteer my valuable time to an "emergency communication" organization when they can't even communicate during non-emergencies? Imagine what would happen in a REAL emergency.

10. I just don't want to.

73
KD8DQK
Buckhannon, WV

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by WD4JZO on September 10, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

I do volunteer as often as possible (wish I could do more) but that being said I think people need to re-read the regulations again, specifically 97.1(a) and then re-think their reasons for being hams.It's not just fun and games anymore.Just a thought.
73, Jim

RE: Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by K1CJS on September 10, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

".....I think people need to re-read the regulations again, specifically 97.1(a) and then re-think their reasons for being hams.It's not just fun and games anymore....."

Nowadays, its not about fun and games AT ALL. It is about communications, pure and simple. If the powers that be would just realize that and stop with all the extra baloney that has to be learned 'before you can do the communications job', there would be more people willing to contribute their time.

If the agency directors would only stop, look, listen and realize that emergency comms aren't for everybody, then get people in there who want to do the job instead of getting Joe Blow in there because he is a friend of the fire chief, or Jack Frack, because he knows the mayor, maybe there would be people who would be there in an emergency doing the work instead of running around being seen.

Amateur radio today IS more of a hobby than anything more meaningful--like helping others. Want proof? Try calling on 146.52. Any answer? No? See what I mean?

Why Don't YOU Volunteer?

by WV7R on September 11, 2006 Mail this to a friend!

It looks like this thread is about to be pushed off of the "main stage" by fresher and more recent posts. Before it does, I would like to thank everyone who took the time to respond for doing so, even those of you who could not resist the urge to flame <grin>.

There was quite a bit of useful information in many of the responses and for that I thank you.

73

Allan, WV7R

Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to discussions on this article.

Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help

Other Emergency/Public Service Articles

USA 5 MHz Emcomm, Not Ragchew DX Contests