Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
Don Tyrrell (W8AD)
on
October 6, 2006
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Over the last several years, I have seen that certain home owners associations (HOAs) and property management firms have sued property owners from flying and displaying the American Flag, claiming CC&R restrictions. Unfortunately, the associations have generally won.
However, this may now change. "H.R. 42: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005" was signed into law on July 24, 2006 as Public Law No. 109-243 and signed by President Bush.
"Sec.3 Right to Display the Flag of the United States. A condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real eastate management association may not adopt or enforce any policy, or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent a member of the association from displaying the flag of the United States on residential property within the association--------(it goes on into more detail with certain restrictions)."
Read the details on the web site:
www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h109-42
I was thinking of those hams who live in an HOA area who want to put up a flag pole vertical antenna, with the wires inside the fiberglass or PVC pole. There are several commercially available.
This new bill gives everyone the right to "display the flag" in an HOA area but, unfortunately, doesn't specifically refer, one way or the other, to flag poles to support them.
However, this new federal law may give you enough horsepower to fight the HOA. Who knows, they may back down. As they say, your mileage may vary. At least it's a move in the right direction. Check it out for yourself, and maybe with your attorney.
Hope this gives some hope to HOA/CCR people.
Good luck,
Don, W8AD
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Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N0IU on October 6, 2006
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Not a new idea by any means, but a good idea to share with newcomers who are crippled by HOAs with CC&Rs.
I did a search for QST articles, and the oldest one I could find on this subject was entitled "Flagpole Without a Flag" published in the November 1964 issue by Noel H. Davidson K5JVF (who I believe is SK now).
Scott N0IU
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N8NOE on October 6, 2006
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I Pitty the S.O.B. (Sweet ol' Boy) that tells me, or Tries to take my flag down! I Surtainly "Didn't" need a Law to make it ok, but I think it will help the Condos/Apt. Etc.. Yes, a Friend has been using a 6BTV in a Flagpole for some time, and I was ging to build one and use it On the Back 40 here.. Keep it Flying!
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N4LI on October 6, 2006
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Unfortunately, the HOA may make significant restrictions under this new statute. Section 4 states:
Nothing in this Act shall be considered to permit any display or use that is inconsistent with--
(2) any reasonable restriction pertaining to the time, place, or manner of displaying the flag of the United States necessary to protect a substantial interest of the condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association.
So, if one is hoping this will allow him to strong-arm the HOA into allowing a 33-foot flag pole for a substantial vertical, I think they may be disappointed. The operative term here is "reasonable." While that term is a bit squishy, I feel pretty confident that courts would give HOAs pretty wide latitude here.
I think this is a good law, but I doubt it's a significant boon to the ham community.
Peter, N4LI
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N8EMR on October 6, 2006
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The Act says they cant stop you from flying the flag. It says nothing about allowing 20ft tall flag poles. Your still be restricted to a 3x5 flag hung off your house.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by K0BG on October 6, 2006
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This law reminds me of the restrictions placed on buyers by PayPal. Yet, millions of people go right ahead and purchase through them, only to find out the hard way, they don't have a leg to stand on. In this case, it's the support pole.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by WY3X on October 6, 2006
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Section 4 article 2 says it all:
(2) any reasonable restriction pertaining to the time, place, or manner of displaying the flag of the United States necessary to protect a substantial interest of the condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association.
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Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N8AUC on October 6, 2006
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This reminds me of a true story.
A friend of mine moved to a nice apartment complex out in the burbs. He really liked the place, because it was on top of a hill, the buildings were 5 stories tall, and they all had balconies with railings.
After he moved in, he put his little AR-2 Ringo on the balcony, attached to the railing. A very unobtrusive installation if ever there was one.
The following day, he received a visit from the building superintendent, who was a former US Marine. He instructed my friend that antennas on the balconies were not permitted and he had 24 hours to remove it. Now this former Marine was an imposing figure, with muscles that looked to be chisled from stone, a square jaw, and still sporting the regulation crew cut. He was obviously not a man to be trifled with. So my friend removed his antenna very quickly.
As time passed, he noticed that other tenants had flag poles attached to their railings. He also noticed that the superintendent did a walk around of the buildings at least once a day, and that the superintendent always paused to salute Old Glory whenever he saw one flying from a balcony.
So he waited a few more days, and then asked the superintendent if he could have a flag pole, so he could fly the US Flag from his balcony. The superintendent told him that was perfectly fine. So he went to the local Wal Mart and bought one of those el-cheapo American Flag kits. It came with a cheesy little aluminum pole, a wall bracket, and the flag itself was attached to the pole with simple nylon wire ties. He installed the flag kit all right, but instead of using that cheesy little aluminum pole, he substituted his AR-2 Ringo as the flag pole, then attached the flag he bought to the ringo using the nylon wire ties it came with.
A few days later, he noticed the superintendent pausing during his daily walkaround to salute his AR-2 Ringo, which was proudly flying Old Glory from his balcony.
The moral to this story, is that where there is a will, there is always a way.
73 de N8AUC
Eric
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by K8MHZ on October 6, 2006
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Wasn't this very subject discussed here a while ago?
I believe the bottom line is that a statute to allow the display of our flag is not meant to allow the installation of an antenna.
I also believe that people that abuse the statute may make it hard on the people that would actually use it to fly a flag.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by W8AD on October 6, 2006
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The subject has been discussed several times before, but the law itself is quite new (July 24, 2006). Before this law took effect, HOAs could force people to take down ANY display of the flag, no matter how they were mounted.
Don, W8AD
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by EXWA2SWA on October 6, 2006
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Mark K8MHZ is on target here. We often forget that the purpose of legislation like this is not to facilitate our hobby, but to remove undue restrictions on those who would display their patriotism or, one would hope, their service. (My USMC flag flies with the National Ensign)
That said, I can imagine how the HOA's would react to the need to protect that flagpole from lightning by making sure it had sufficient static-draining wires in the ground - perhaps 50 or 60 of them, about as long as the pole is tall or a little longer, in a circular array buried just a few inches below the surface.
And with THAT said, I truly hope this does indeed allow some antenna-challenged ops to improve their signal and enjoy our hobby even more. As has often been said, any antenna is better than none!
Every time I look at my nice, new 6BTV, I'm glad that the only HOA I have to worry about is the one I wake up with ... and I learned my lesson. I no longer ask permission, I rarely ask forgiveness, but I often ask where she'd like to go for dinner.
73,
Jim
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KF7CG on October 6, 2006
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The real klinker is that in the Columbus, OH area I ssaw several sets of CC&Rs that specifically permitted flagpoles of certain sizes and explicity declare that the they were not to be a source of emission of electro-magnitic radiation. The ban on external antennas other than OTARDs explicity forbad the installation of "concealed or disguised" antennas.
They developers had been helped in their wording by members of the local land use board. You can't leave your garage door open in some of the suburbs either.
KF7CG
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KC8VWM on October 6, 2006
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The ban on external antennas other than OTARDs explicity forbad the installation of "concealed or disguised" antennas.
--------------------
This ban refers to "External antennas"
Be sure to tell all the neighbors about the "external antenna" on that portable radio they are using during the BBQ is against the CC&R rules.
Also, be sure there is no one playing with remote control toys that have external antennas on them either.
So you want to use a laptop computer on your backyard deck? Nope, they too have a "concealed antenna" and are prohibited by the ban.
Don't park your car in the driveway. It too has an external antenna on it. Be sure everyone parks out on the street because "external antenna's" are not allowed anywhere on thier property.
...Boy, could I have a field day with that one.
73
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KB1HTW on October 6, 2006
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"Be sure to tell all the neighbors about the "external antenna" on that portable radio they are using during the BBQ is against the CC&R rules."
Note that KF7CG's post explicitly talks about "emission", not "reception". Of course, the radio-controlled car could pose a problem, but then again going back to the post, it appears that the wording is explicitly tied to flagpoles.
What's the old term? "Be careful what you wish for, because you might get it"? If the CC&R wording really was that explicit, then perhaps the enterprising ham there could come up with some other stealth design, since the regulation appears to be for flagpoles only. Gutters, perhaps? Or maybe a nice bonded set of "lightning rods" around the perimeter of the roof?
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Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KB1NTS on October 6, 2006
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Isn't there a law that states that the government can't stop a licensed ham from putting up an antenna? How are these snooty organizations stopping hams from erecting antennas? I thought the only restrictions were if the land has some historical value? I belive a copy of this law can be found an the AARL web site. That's where I read it.
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Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by G0GQK on October 6, 2006
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It seems to me that whenever I see anything American featured on TV news, which is perhaps every day, the Stars and Stripes appear to be flying all over the place. This is in contrast to Britain where planning permission is required from the local council to fly the Union Jack flag.
There was an article in a national newspaper the other day and the story was about visits to the Normandy beaches by veterans and family members of those who gave their lives during the beach landings in northern France.
The author visited Arromanches and was absolutely amazed by the hundreds of Union flags which were hoisted on flagpoles, hanging from windows, the town was a mass of Union flags, with a substantial number of American flags. A youngster of about ten years was open mouthed by the sight, he had never seen so many flags on display in the main street of a town. The only flags he had ever seen in any number was the flag of St. George which is paraded around on the backs of England football supporters, fixed to cars on small sticks and the chests and backsides of female football fans.
A woman from Colorado, on being told that this would never be allowed in Britain, naturally asked why ?
Local laws prohibit the flying or displaying of any sign without official permission and payment of a license she was told. "What !! official permission !!
If they told anyone that back home in Colorado they wouldn't live through the night !
The people of Arromanches remember the Allied invasion force, those who were wounded and those who gave their lives to liberate France and have shown their appreciation every day since D-Day. Meanwhile in Britain, a member of the European Union, as is France, the miserable money grabbing local councils demand permission to fly the Union flag, and permission is granted by payment of money.
Good, isn't it ?
Mel G0GQK
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KX8N on October 6, 2006
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"It seems to me that whenever I see anything American featured on TV news, which is perhaps every day, the Stars and Stripes appear to be flying all over the place. This is in contrast to Britain where planning permission is required from the local council to fly the Union Jack flag. "
Not to take anything away from any other country, but for the United States, our flag signifies everything our country stands for. It is something we take great pride in. It's a reminder of why our country was founded, and of the sacrifices that have been made by those fighting for our freedoms. We celebrate our flag on Independence Day, and on Flag Day. It's more of a symbol of the American spirit and the American citizens than it is of the government. Our flag represents our people. That is why it is so despicable to try to prevent us from displaying her.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by W5GNB on October 6, 2006
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I really feel sorry for you folks who live in CC&R housing. I would not ever even consider living in such an area where someone else dictates to me how I should live and how my property will used unless they want to take up the morgage payments.
It just isn't the AMERICAN way in my opinion!!!!
And that is MY Two cents worth!!!
73's
Gary - W5GNB
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N8UZE on October 6, 2006
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To: KB1NTS
You are probably thinking of PRB-1. This simply states that local GOVERNMENTS must reasonably accommodate amateur radio operators who wish to put up antennas. It does NOT address CCRs and HOAs. The latter two are considered private contracts that you sign/agree to when you purchase the property. PRB-1 does not apply.
PRB-1 was designed to help out in cases where cities and counties had unduly restrictive zoning regulations. In general, it has helped hams to be able to put up better installations. However, the term "reasonable" is still open to interpretation.
As far as CCRs and HOAs go, the ARRL continues to lobby congress to pass a bill that will provide similar relief there too.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by WB2WIK on October 6, 2006
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>They developers had been helped in their wording by members of the local land use board. You can't leave your garage door open in some of the suburbs either.
KF7CG<
::Oh, it goes a lot further than that! I looked over the standard Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions for a new housing development not far from here: 227 pages.
Two hundred twenty-seven pages.
Holy smoke. They prohibited everything except breathing, and that might be in there somewhere, also.
And people actually BUY these properties?
Nuts.
WB2WIK/6
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Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by AI2IA on October 6, 2006
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This act is foremost for those unfortunates who have bought into one of these gulags and can't afford to get out in order to fly the flag of freedom. So, the flag comes first, and then if you want to run a wire up the pole or use a conductive mast, well, you're just using a good opportunity that's all.
Prevention is better than cure. So, never buy into one of these gulags in the first place, and never go willingly into any old folks home, either. Up in New Hampshire they have it straight. Their state motto is "Live free or die!"
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Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KB1NTS on October 6, 2006
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Thank you for the answer to my question. Next question
--- Why would anybody especially a ham buy a property where a third party can govern your personal affairs??????-----
Sounds like big brother to me. I'll keep my place in the sticks. Two cars at a stop light is a traffic jam to us here in cantral Mass.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KC8VWM on October 6, 2006
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I can see the sign posted at the front of the gated community now:
"Welcome to the Rolling Hills Gulag at Covington Heights."
Our exclsuive community offer luxury amenities with golf, tennis, swimming pools, A gated community of executive level homes on the fairways of the La Quinta Resort and not a single antenna in sight.
Now accepting applications for potential prisoners.
Amateur radio operators need not apply.
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Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by AI2IA on October 6, 2006
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It all boils down to what you value most. Do you want creature comforts, freedom from pain, feeling good about yourself, fellowship with drones? Or do you value independence, achievement after struggle, the pleasure of speaking your mind, the competitive spirit, calling yourself your own, being secure within yourself, living life for all its worth today? It's your choice - the antenna-less gulag or life on your own. There is something most repugnant in needing a law to protect your right to fly the flag of your own, your native land. Life, liberty, and property! Just say no to gated communities. Stay on your own land. As for the antenna, well, they can pry that out of your cold dead fingers of one hand after they pry something else out of the cold dead fingers of your other hand. Hey, you only live once. What's your choice? The gated community board of directors are demanding an answer!!
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KC8VWM on October 6, 2006
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Well in that case...
"Welcome to the Bad Axe Project"
Our exclsuive community offers regular police patrols with gunfire nightly, drug accesibility, nightly break-ins, A crack community of dilapitated and condemed homes on the San Quentin bus line and antennas everywhere in sight.
Now accepting applications for potential victims .
Amateur radio operators invited to apply.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by AE6RO on October 6, 2006
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Not every ungated community is that bad, and not every gated community is going to be safe from the Big, Bad, Outside World.
So if you want antennas and ham radio, you gotta make a choice. Your family's safety or your hobby! So sayeth the XYL.
But I digress. I don't think gated communities that forbid either the flag, or antennas, or both is something I need to invest in. 73, AE6RO
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Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by K4JC on October 6, 2006
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My work often takes me to gated/guarded communities here in Florida (and sometimes in other parts of the country) and honestly, if the bad guys want to get in, they would have no problem at all. So the idea of better security is really not as valid as the developers and realtors would have you believe.
As far as the issue of erecting antennas, flagpoles, or what have you, my feeling has always been that if I am going to pay a small fortune for my property, I don't want anyone telling me what I can or can't do with my own property. I may not like a purple house, but if you do - hey, it's your house and I'll be right there defending your right to have a purple house. You may not like pink pansies with yellow polka dots (or for that matter, antennas), but that doesn't give you any right to tell me I can't plant them in my yard. As long as my tastes and activities are not illegal or posing a public hazard you have no business telling me my business concerning my property. And vice versa. Because of this I have not and will not live in a deed restricted/HOA community. If you choose to, that's fine. But remember that you do so with the understanding that you are giving a small group of people (likely strangers, possibly with ideas and goals substantially different than yours) permission to govern significant areas of your life and lifestyle. I already have Uncle Sam, the State, et al telling me what to do; the last thing I need is to invite more of that kind of bondage into my life.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by W6TH on October 6, 2006
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.
AI2IA mentioned NH.
Up in New Hampshire they have it straight. Their state motto is "Live free or die!"
.....................................................
AI2IA, that is the reason I now reside in New Hampshire. The land of the Free and the home of the Brave. Walking down the street, no empty area without an American flag.
Keep in touch as no sales tax, no state income tax, no zoning laws and now pushing for no school taxes and the possibly of no property tax. Stay tuned.
By the way there is a great demand for a labor force, plenty of jobs for those that are willing to work.
...................Live Free or Die...................
.:
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FREEDOM TO ALLOW RESTRICTED FREEDOM ACT
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by KC8VWM on October 6, 2006
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That's it!..., i'm pulling up my stupid fake all band garbage can lid antenna and stealth rose bush counterpoise wires out of the ground right now as I am typing. (I have WiFi ok?)
To heck with it. Enough is enough... I have rights and freedoms!!!!
Oh, wait a sec.- STANDBY - ,what's that you say honey?
..Ok, gotta bail - CUL8TR... SK
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Freedom to be an American with Flag & Antenna
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by AI2IA on October 6, 2006
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It does an OM good to see that there still are hams that know what our Founding Fathers wanted to secure for their and our posterity. In regard to New Hampshire, the natural beauty and fresh air up there, and the mountains must clear the minds of its citizens. There will never be anything better than an antenna rising above your own land. This is the best solution to the problem.
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RE: FREEDOM TO ALLOW RESTRICTED FREEDOM ACT
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by KC0RDG on October 6, 2006
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Unfortunately, I believe you will still be restricted as to the size and location of the flag.
I can just see it now... "Sure you can display the flag, we have for sale 8 x 10 American flag stickers you can put in your window!"
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KA8OCN on October 6, 2006
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I can understand a person that got interested in Ham Radio after buying their home but why would anyone buy a house in one of these communities?
Its possable in some areas there just is no housing in a persons price range without these agreements. I think that sometimes its just a suprise to the homeowner. Why in Gods name do people buy a home without reading everything they are signing?
I myself moved out of the city as soon as I was 18 ( over 30 years ago ) that was before I was a Ham and even then I did not like the restrictions I saw.
My Son ownes a home in a small town near me and they have what I call the "Grass Police" If his grass is over 4" tall he gets a notice and has 24 hours to gut it or they will hire someone to do it and fine him 75$
He has a small lot (something like 40 ft) last spring (when he found out about this wonderfull service his city provides him) last spring it rained everyday for 10 days, so he had 2 weekends where it rained, he got his first notice, he was underwhelmed and called the city, found out there is no fine unless he does not comply so he told them ok I will never mow the lawn unless you send me a notice. So lets review, a city that is crying all the time they dont have enough money (no goverment agency has enough money) pays a guy to go around with a tape measure and check peoples grass length...
I live in the country, yes I do loose power once in a while for a few days, but they do make generators, I have to snow plow a 220 ft driveway, and as far as criminals mu neighbor is crazer than I am and he would have no problem shooting someone messing with me or my property and I would return the favor. I guarantee if the shit hit the fan and I needed help he would be there before the Cops would!
My first house I ever baught in the counrty had a wall fall down (outside wall) I fixed it and we kept getting nicer and nicer homes each time we upgraded.
Buy a old fixerupper in the country with as much land as you can afford, spend a little more time to get back and forth to work, a lot more in gas but you will save money on insurance both on your home and your vehicle and you can plant as big as a antenna farm as you can do!
I guess I am Blessed to live in Michigan and our housing is not as expensive as some other places in our country.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KX8N on October 6, 2006
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"--- Why would anybody especially a ham buy a property where a third party can govern your personal affairs??????-----
Sounds like big brother to me."
It's not a matter of our rights being taken away. It's a matter of people rolling over and submissively - and willingly - GIVING our rights away.
How many people people have no problem with living in these kinds of communities? Everyone who is already there, and there's alot of them.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by AB2MH on October 6, 2006
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The only solution to this - speak with your wallets.
I'm looking for a home right now and I have told every real estate agent I've spoken to - no HOA or no sale. And I am going to put that in writing.
I am not taking any chances whatsoever. After all, the very reason I want to buy a house is so that I can have my own property to put up antennas.
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Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N8QBY on October 7, 2006
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People have a choice where they are to live, so there really shouldn't be any surprises when confronted about antennas and such. Unless one didn't do their homework.
Sound like some are running from paying taxes. Hey, it's a part of life. Step up to the plate, and do ones part. What's next, free cheese line? :o)
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KE3HO on October 7, 2006
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>> I'm looking for a home right now and I have told every real estate agent I've spoken to - no HOA or no sale. And I am going to put that in writing. <<
You have to do more than just require no HOA. You have to go to the courthouse and search the deeds on the property all of the way back to the first deed on record. When someone subdivides a piece of property, they may put conditions and restrictions on the deed. They will be filed with the first deed for the property and it will state that they are binding on all future owners, even though the restrictions are not specifically referenced on subsequent deeds when the property is resold. Only by looking up the deeds back to the original subdivision will you find out if there are any deed restrictions.
You may say, "But if there is no HOA, who will enforce the restictions?" The answer to that will be in the original deed restrictions also. For example, I checked these restictions before I bought my current home. The original deed had a couple of restrictions filed with it, none of which hindered my hobby. However, they stated that they would be enforced by the HOA, if one was formed, or by the developer if no HOA was formed. In my neighborhood there is no HOA. Nobody wanted one, so it was never formed. However, the original developer is still in business in the area (his office is 1 mile away) and someone from his company keeps an eye on "his" neighborhoods to make sure everything is in order. I know of one person in another neighborhood of his who fenced his entire yard with chain link fence. The deed restrictions say that you cannot fence your front yard, and chain link fence is specifically prohibitted. The developer made him take the fence down. It had been more than 10 years since the developer finished that neighborhood, and he had no interest there other than making sure that "his" development looked up to his standards.
73 - Jim
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by WR8D on October 7, 2006
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Jim i gotta say, you take the cake. hi hi. Well put om. Have a great weekend. 73 John WR8D
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by WR8D on October 7, 2006
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Why would anyone want to live under a CC&R. This is Americia, we are supposed to be free. That also means free from our neighbors telling us what we can do on our property. If you put your money in a place like that you ask for what you get. Here in the country we have a very blunt saying that applies to what you're going through...you sucked for it so gag on it now. You purchased it knowing full well what you were buying. Some will be arrogant and say oh we have a sheltered community blah blah. Mine is sheltered too out here in the valleys of these beautiful mountains. If i want to put up a tower i just put it up. Sling a wire over the top of a pine tree, thats just fine. My only CC&R is what it's gonna cost and how much i have left in my checking account to buy it. We're just into each others business way to much now days it seems. Again though, why in the world would anyone want to live like that and spend their hard earned money to own a place like that...and then bitch about the restrictions. I'm amazed. WR8D
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by K8MHZ on October 7, 2006
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John,
What it boils down to is the Golden Rule, that is 'The one's with the most gold make the rules.'
Also, no one in America owns property. It is rented from the government. You will find that the average rent is 1/20th to 1/50th the value of the property and is paid in the form of property taxes.
Over the years, we have given up our freedoms in exchange for security. As a result we have less of both, and the trend shows no signs of slowing down.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by WR8D on October 7, 2006
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Mark you honestly hit the nail on the head. 73 John
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KT6K on October 7, 2006
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WR8D "Why would anyone want to live under a CC&R."
Yes indeed. Especially when those areas are usually look-alike after look-alike house cramed together feet away from each other. They are not very original or exciting, are they.
Oh give me a home, where the antennas can roam.......
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by W2RDD on October 7, 2006
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"..and the neighbors not moan."
sorry couldn't resist that. Fortunate is the ham, who finds him/herself in an ideal QTH. It is getting tougher and tougher to stay on the air, for any number of reasons.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KC8VWM on October 7, 2006
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The problem is some people want to live in areas that are nice and don't have billybob redneck's rusted pickup truck jacked up on the front lawn.
We somehow feel these restrictions in place will eliminate all these problems and to a certain extent it does. Some people don't care about billybob and others do. Those that do, live in neighborhoods that enforce CC&R's and those that don't live somewhere else.
So then it ends up that you don't want billybob redneck living next store, but yet at the same time you want the ability to put up an 80m Yagi on your roof.
You can't have both. But I will say this. Some HOA's are more tolerant than others about things. While it's unlikely you can't suspend a 30 foot wide pile of aluminum rods over your home, many don't really care if you hide or disguise an antenna. Many HOA's just don't want you attracting attention from the neighbors. Then you have some HOA's that are just plain militant in behavior. If a newspaper is in your driveway for more than 2 hours you get a knock on your door.
So HOA's are not always a bad thing. It's just that there are different types of them. Some HOA's are actually reasonable in their approach and hey, if that means it manages to keep the neighborhood I live in half decent shape, then it's not always a bad thing.
My HOA is the "non militant" type and basically what they don't see, they don't really care about. The rules are there and they can be enforced if "the appearance" of your antenna's gets way out of hand.
Some HOA's can actually be reasonable if you are also reasonable in many of these situations.
I've had longwires, beams, and all sorts of antennas here. Most are of the temporary variety. For example I have a 6 meter 3 element beam. It goes up when I operate and it comes down when I'm done. This in their minds is reasonable and nothing is said if that's the way I contunue to do things. Now if I parked that same pile of aluminum as a permanent neighborhood fixture for everyone to see day after day, then I might start having problems.
So HOA's are sometimes a necessary evil, the trick is to choose one carefully. The one's that are of the non militant variety do exist out there. Just be reasonable in your approach and I think you will find they will be too.
73
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by W1YB on October 7, 2006
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My HOA is fairly reasonable, but then we're right down the road from Ventana Lakes.
http://www.ahrc.com/old/HOAorg/Media/ma_042000_9.html
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by W6TH on October 7, 2006
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.
Also, no one in America owns property. It is rented from the government. You will find that the average rent is 1/20th to 1/50th the value of the property and is paid in the form of property taxes.
Over the years, we have given up our freedoms in exchange for security. As a result we have less of both, and the trend shows no signs of slowing down.
.....................................................
I thought this was all settled when the greatest military in the world was defeated, Great Britain and General Cornwallis by farmers with pitch forks.
.....Our forefathers fought for Liberty from the British, this is what we should have today: "Liberty"
The Definition of Liberty:
The condition of being free from restriction or control.
Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
A right or immunity to engage in certain actions without control or interference: the liberties protected by the Bill of Rights.
The Constitution of the Unites States of America is now gone forever. Blame this on yourselves.
There was/were thirtytwo reasons for the thirteen United States to defeat Great Britain and we now have it all over again, to defeat our own country for Freedom, to regain our Liberty.
.................Live Free of Die...................
Remember, once you pay taxes, the taxes are no longer taxpayers money, but belong to the Governments who can splurge the Governments money as they see fit.
.:
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N8BOA on October 7, 2006
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Why is it we have to HIDE behind our flag. Did have to do that when I was a kid in the 60s and 70s
N8BOA
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KT6K on October 7, 2006
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You don't have areas that are nice and don't have billybob redneck's rusted pickup truck jacked up on the front lawn? Unless you have a HOA?
There are plenty of nice areas that don't look like a shanty-town. But you won't get that low per/sq price...
Oh give me a lot
Where the rhombics don't stop
And the neighbors like you a lot...(you hope)
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by K4JF on October 7, 2006
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"They prohibited everything except breathing, and that might be in there somewhere, also.
And people actually BUY these properties?"
In many areas (like here) every, and I mean EVERY subdivision has those asinine rules. And for those who ask "why did you buy", in many areas, you can't get a copy, or it is, at best, extremely difficult to get a copy of the rules.
Also, HOAs can make up rules on the fly, too.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by W6TH on October 7, 2006
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.
Your government doesn't care about you or your belongings.
Laws can be passed to prohibit you from flying an American flag on your own home property and I bet none of you home owners will do anything about it, just let it happen.
.:
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KX8N on October 7, 2006
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^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Love it when someone tries to speak for everyone...
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Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N6TZ on October 7, 2006
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CQ Magazine had an article a month or two ago about flag pole antennas. Nice article, and one picture showed a flagpole in the front yard......SO WHOA, LET'S THINK THIS THROUGH......
Has anyone given thought to the FCC requirement to protect the Public from RF Exposure????
It appears to me that if you are running MORE than 50 watts, and you have one of these hidden antennas in your front yard, you MAY need to put up signs and a fence around it. The fence will have to be a minimum of size that (1)-nobody can reach in and touch the radiator, and (2)-you have calculated the safe distance at which the field is low enough in both Electric (E) field and Magnetic (H) field. Do this at 10 meters with a kilowatt and you will have quite a fence.
So before you place yourselves in a liable situation with the FCC or a civil action, I think you may want to review the OET Bulletin 65 with Supplement B. The Supplement B is written especially for Amateur applications.
Go to www.fcc.gov , then in their search space, enter OET Bulletin 65. Then pick the top selection and as you skroll down, you will see the supplements listed.
Hal, N6TZ
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N6HBJ on October 7, 2006
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"This ban refers to "External antennas"
Be sure to tell all the neighbors about the "external antenna" on that portable radio they are using during the BBQ is against the CC&R rules.
Also, be sure there is no one playing with remote control toys that have external antennas on them either.
So you want to use a laptop computer on your backyard deck? Nope, they too have a "concealed antenna" and are prohibited by the ban."
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Those are NOT examples of antennas installed on the PROPERTY!!
~Mike N6HBJ
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KD5FEP on October 8, 2006
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Well I'm a little offended by the " pickup jacked up on the lawn" comment.
There are only a few and it keeps down the area ya gotta mow.
Larry
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KT6K on October 8, 2006
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Their are plenty of areas that are nice and don't have HOA's. Look for them.
Most people have pride in the neighborhood kind of neighborhoods. Unless you are 'country', local city code would take care of billybob redneck's rusted pickup truck and the $1M camper parked more than 3 days in your neighbors driveway.
By the way, 22awg coated wire stretched across the roof is 'almost' invisible and makes an invisible long-wire which works great, at least it did in a condo in NYC. (better than a flag-pole vertical imho) A good ground helps a lot, 'specially' that RF in the shack. Ouch.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KF4PEP on October 8, 2006
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You know the best way to deal with many of these HOA's?
Get involved. In many communities nobody wants to be on them, so they end up being run by the zealots and busybodies with nothing else to do.
So go down and do what it takes to get on the board... then fight the good fight from within. When the annual metings are taking place take our friends and promise some beer for supporting you. Stack the deck in your favor.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KX8N on October 8, 2006
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"Well I'm a little offended by the " pickup jacked up on the lawn" comment.
There are only a few and it keeps down the area ya gotta mow.
Larry "
It gives the 20 or so hillbilly dogs a place to lie out of the sun, too :)
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by W6TH on October 8, 2006
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.
There is always something to look forward to and that will be the year 2026. Wonder how it would feel to be an American in those future years.
Who knows, it may be the first war that has been fought on American soil. Then comes the revolution.
.:
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KC8VWM on October 8, 2006
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"This ban refers to "External antennas"
Be sure to tell all the neighbors about the "external antenna" on that portable radio they are using during the BBQ is against the CC&R rules.
Also, be sure there is no one playing with remote control toys that have external antennas on them either.
So you want to use a laptop computer on your backyard deck? Nope, they too have a "concealed antenna" and are prohibited by the ban."
-----------------------------------
Those are NOT examples of antennas installed on the PROPERTY!!
~Mike N6HBJ
-------------------------
Really? How so?
Do they use antennas on these devices for reception purposes? Yes No?
Are they located on your property or someone else's property?
"Installed" is a merely matter of interpretation. For example, installed could mean the placement of an antenna on you vehicle for your AM/FM radio.
Also please explain how a temporary telescopic pole on my deck connected to an FT 817 is any different than connecting an AM/FM CD player radio with a telescopic antenna on it?
I didn't read anything about any actual length of the antenna used, No where does it say "no antenna's on the roof" or no antenna "towers" or anything specific to that idea. There are no specific measurements indicated for the actual size of the antenna used either.
It indicates one thing and one thing only. "No external antennas" are allowed on your property.
This can only mean one thing. If the antenna (regardless of it size, shape, dimensions or intended use) and if it is located outdoors, somewhere on your property, and it looks like an antenna, then it is not allowed.
How could it mean anything else?
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KC8VWM on October 8, 2006
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In addition, HOA's cannot use the language "No external antenna's allowed" That language is illegal and unenforceable.
Any HOA using this language would be in violation of federal OTARD legislation which permits anyone to install a TV or satellite antenna on their property.
Don't just take my word for it, visit the FCC website link below and see it for yourself.
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by W2RDD on October 8, 2006
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Hmmm, that comment about the whip of a portable am/fm radio sitting on the patio picnic table...a very, very interesting observation.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by W6TH on October 8, 2006
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.
You boys have it all wrong.
You buy a house/home with a contract that mentions there will be no installation of wires, antenna, etc., means you are not allowed to install etc., antennas.
You buy, you agree, you sign, the end.
Stop beating a dead horse. Turn on you ham radios.
.:
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N6HBJ on October 8, 2006
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KC8VWN
It's not illegal for HOAs to ban antennas.
HOAs CAN and DO ban antennas with the EXCEPTION of antennas for TV (Satellite Dish or otherise) because the LAW specifically allows THOSE antennas and NOTHING else. There are no laws that say an HOA must allow Ham, CB, shortwave or otherwise antenna on the home.
Also, an antenna atached to an AM radio sitting on a table on the balcony is not considered an installation on the property. That is completely different than permanently installed and mounted on the roof or balcony. Balcony violations cost homeowners in my complex a $200 fine.
Now certainly you can claim that it's about "interpretation" or whatever but try it in the real world and see what happens. You'll get laughed out of court after you pay the fine, the HOA's attorney fees and court costs. You could of course refuse to pay, claiming they can't ban antennas and have your credit ruined.
I wish you were right - but you ain't!
N6HBJ - Mike
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KC8VWM on October 8, 2006
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Remember you might not be allowed to fly old glory on a 25 foot pole but for some strange reason flying your football team pennant on a bicycle flag pole attached to something seems to attract far less attention for some apparent reason.
73 Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N6HBJ on October 8, 2006
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W6TH
everyone doesn't have the luxary to buy a home where ever they want. Myself I have been a Ham for 24 years and love this hobby but just bought my first home - a condo with HOA restrictions. I would much rather have a house but I cannot afford it - yet.
So in the interim, I would like to remain on the air for the next few years and enjoy this hobby like a lot of us do and I will do everything in my power to get around the HOA CC&Rs so I can pursue my hobby. This is a place to exchange ideas.
How about showing a little support for your brother Hams Vito!
~Mike - N6HBJ
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KC8VWM on October 8, 2006
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Also, an antenna atached to an AM radio sitting on a table on the balcony is not considered an installation on the property. That is completely different than permanently installed and mounted on the roof or balcony. Balcony violations cost homeowners in my complex a $200 fine.
-------
Good! Well i'm here to inform you that I am the master when iot comes to stealth antenna's
Here's my solution to the outdoor antenna problem you indicated then...
According to you, a peron can apparently have a portable radio outside with a telescopic antenna on it sitting outside beside your BBQ right?
(Solution - The radio itself is a non working prop, The antenna on the prop is your actual outdoor antenna. The "Power cord" going to the prop is actually your coax feedline. neat stealth antenna trick huh?)
Or how about using a set of dipole radio speakers?
Simply detach and seperate the speakers from the "radio prop" using the wire between the speakers as a dipole antenna.
So you were saying?
73 Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KC8VWM on October 8, 2006
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More stealth antenna tricks by KC8VWM
How about a bug zapper prop with an "end fed extension cord" using the extension cord as the actual HF antenna?
What's your favorite football team? Have a BBQ outside? Install a bicycle flagpole on a BBQ as a decoration with your favoite "sports team" pennant attached to it. Just add some brats and beer huh?
Just buy any old bike at a yardsale for 20 bucks and use it as a portable antenna.
Believe it or not a bicycle can actually accomote an antenna like an "HF screwdriver" just as easily as a car or a truck. The prop can also have mobile VHF and Uhf antenna's on it at the same time too.
Prop a crappie pole (antenna) up against the building on your outside patio.
Buy an well used dirty looking tackle box and fishing net at a yard sale and place these items on the ground directly beside your fishing pole antenna. Make the whole setup appear like your have just placed them outside temporarily and you ran inside the house for a minute. No one passing by will even give it a second thought.
A fishing rod case can have a Jpole or dual band Larson mobile antenna inside it. You can prop the case up against the building and "stage" the way it looks by adding a fishing net, small tackle box and place a smaller fishing rod beside the fishing rod case containing the VHF/UHF antenna inside it.
Patios are for patio furniture. So can you put a patio umbrella there too?
Patio unbrellas are nice antennas. Especially when the pipe is made of PVC and an antenna is hidden inside it.
Did you kwow that a spider beam for HF can be disguised to look like a patio umbrella? Look up spider beam on Google.
73 Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KC8VWM on October 8, 2006
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I once turned a canoe stored outside against my house into a dipole antenna! What polorization do you want the canoe to be? I suppose that question could be best answered by how it's proped up against the house or fence for storage huh?
73 Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KC8VWM on October 8, 2006
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KC8VWN
It's not illegal for HOAs to ban antennas.
---
You are completey wrong. Satellite dishes are "unbannable"
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KC8VWM on October 8, 2006
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Let's get down to the nitty gritty of this topic.
"Using Stealth Antennas"
Satellite dish HF antenna:
Run a feed line wire (disguised as an long wire HF antenna) to your satellite dish that just happens to be resonate for the frequency you wish to operate your ham radio gear.
In addition, no rule say you can't have your satellite dish located on a pole on the furthest point of your property.
The feed line is actually you HF antenna. There is rules that indicate your feed line for your dish should be hidden or it can't be located 15 feet above the ground running to that same pole with the dish on it. The rules do not indicate the feedline must be short or if that feedline running to your satellite dish should be located at the furthest point on our property either.
73 Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KG6WLV on October 8, 2006
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It seems to me the idea behind applying this rule is to DISGUISE an antenna by using the flagpole as an antenna. I'm sure most restricted hams can figure out how to do both. I have lots of neighbors who fly a flag 24/7. Hams can do the same.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KC8VWM on October 8, 2006
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Let's put up a 2 meter yagi on your roof in an antenna restricted neighborhood 100% legally.
Covert a TV antenna to work as a 2 meter yagi beam.
Plans are everywhere on the internet.
Now let's just call this an OTARD antenna for TV reception because a person can in fact actually use this antenna for TV reception. Just be sure you have a TV set connected and ready so the antenna can be switched over for TV reception at a moments notice.
100% within the scope of the law. The TV must be made readily availabe for "over the air" reception puposes. You have a right to use an outdoor antenna for your TV reception purposes. It's the law!
Any other suggestions required?
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by W0AEW on October 9, 2006
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Pretend your internet cable connection (or telephone line) is an antenna. Download Echolink and talk to hams around the world via the computer.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KD5KKZ on October 9, 2006
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I think one thing everybody is forgetting is that this law (or bill, whichever it is) allows people to display a flag. I haven't seen anywhere that this law says "how" you can display a flag. This law may only allow you to display the flag by hanging it from the eve of your house. I haven't seen anywhere that the law allows you to place a flagpole in the yard to display the flag from.
Joe
KD5KKZ
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KT6K on October 9, 2006
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(STEALTH ANTENNAS CONT.)
Oh heck, why don't you just wrap your wife in a tin-foil dress and load her up....
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by WB2WIK on October 9, 2006
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act Reply
>by N6HBJ on October 8, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
W6TH
everyone doesn't have the luxary to buy a home where ever they want. Myself I have been a Ham for 24 years and love this hobby but just bought my first home - a condo with HOA restrictions. I would much rather have a house but I cannot afford it - yet.
So in the interim, I would like to remain on the air for the next few years and enjoy this hobby like a lot of us do and I will do everything in my power to get around the HOA CC&Rs so I can pursue my hobby. This is a place to exchange ideas.
How about showing a little support for your brother Hams Vito!
~Mike - N6HBJ<
::Mike, you're 100% right.
However, as someone who's been through the househunting game dozens of times (I'm in my 15th house now, with the first one purchsed at the age of 22 within weeks after college), here's a tip: When home-hunting, make antenna provisions as high a priority on the list of "must haves" as a bedroom, a bathroom or a kitchen. That narrows down the field *a lot* right from the start, but at least the time spent looking is spent looking at places you'll enjoy a little bit more once you're in -- and residences that are covenant-free have higher resale value growth, statistically and ALWAYS, than ones that have covenants. That's really easy to prove, with access to R/E resale data.
I've been faced with the choice: New condo or town house, gorgeous, wonderful, very modern and in perfect condition -- or, 50 year-old small detached home that needs some work and probably some small upgrades, but covenant-free...with both about the same price point.
The choice is obvious, and even my XYL has come to agree: The older fixer-upper is a better deal, and we'll be much happier there and will enjoy better appreciation when we go to sell.
Been there, done that fifteen times now...and more to come, I'm sure. Moving is fun, it's the only time we get to throw stuff away...LOL
73
Steve WB2WIK/6
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by W3WN on October 9, 2006
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Steve, I'm glad you enjoy moving. Truly, I am. Next time I have to do it, I'll pay to have you flown in to do it for me! (*ugh* I'm still moving boxes that were packed from two moves ago!)
BTW, since the subject seems to have slightly shifted to discussing stealth antennas, anyone know if the Ventenna's are still made? And don't forget the old trick of using a Discone as the support for a bird feeder ("oh that? It's to keep the squirrels from climbing the pole and eating all of the bird food!")
And... if you're allowed a patio or picnic table with an umbrella, why not use the umbrella pole as a mast and the inside support arms as wire support? After all, who'd look twice inside an umbrella?
...no, that's not an antenna, that's just the mast holding up my Satellite TV dish! I need that extra height to get a clear line-of-sight because of that building/tree/structure/hill/whatever right over there...
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by AE6RO on October 9, 2006
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Yeah, I saw a 40 meter top loaded short vertical in a book made out of a patio umbrella. The trick is to use lots of radials under it, then it doesn't really matter how long or short it is. Guy had his XYL modeling next to it. Jerry Sevick wrote it.
73s, John AE6RO
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There are various ways to express your displeasure
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by W7LDS on October 10, 2006
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Take the following for instance: http://www.snopes.com/photos/risque/ventcover.asp
Looks like a J-Pole to me :)
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RE: There are various ways to express your displea
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by KC8VWM on October 10, 2006
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It's definetly a copper cactus if you ask me.
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Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by OTT on October 10, 2006
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This might help more than a few home owner associations with flag display issues...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2487638612433437293&q=Veterans
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KE7MBL on October 11, 2006
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I must be really lucky to live at a apartment
complex where I can fly my flag and have a
couple of annteneas on my balconey.
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Opportunity For Action On HOAs
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by CALLSIGNPENDING on October 11, 2006
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NOTE:
The information listed above notwithstanding, my handle on EHAM has not been "Call Sign Pending" for a while. I am now "Don KI4PMG".
********
Hello!
I know there are some of you who will never believe there are communities in America where no decent housing is available outside of an HOA. No matter how many times other hams tell you they have no alternatives to living under an HOA ...
The REST of you may be interested in a recently formed organization, HAMS FOR ACTION (HFA). In July, the new group, which has been mentioned on EHAM before, filed a Petition with the FCC for partial overrides of HOA/covenant and landlord bans on ham antennas.
We hope to assemble enough resources to press for Congressional legislation IF the FCC does not act on the Petition by January. To fund effective advocacy, Membership Dues are $25 per year.
HFA expects to open a Web Site within the next week or so. In The Meantime: HFA's Mission Statement appears below. For further information, and/or for a copy of the HAMS FOR ACTION Petition, please contact me at pioneerpath@hotmail.com
73,
Don Schellhardt KI4PMG
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MISSION STATEMENT OF HAMS FOR ACTION (HFA)
Colorado Springs, Colorado, U.S.A.
October 1, 2006
PREAMBLE
At present, virtually all Homeowners' Associations (HOAs) and many restrictive covenants ban ALL outdoor Amateur Radio antennas in affected neighborhoods. Similar antenna bans by landlords compound the situation.
We stress that such antenna bans function, in practice, as bans on ANY activity by Amateur Radio operators, or "hams". This means affected neighborhoods are now being denied the potential protection provided by Amateur Radio emergency communications during and after a natural or man-made disaster.
According to Professor of Economics Ron Cheung, of Florida State University, at least 50% of the nation's new housing is now governed by HOAs. Thus, it is becoming much more difficult to recruit new "hams", especially among the younger generations who are most likely to live in the affected neighborhoods.
More is at risk, in the years to come, than the volunteer emergency communications which hams have provided for a century. Also at risk are the public benefits the Amateur Radio Service has traditionally provided by introducing young people to technology and empowering them to pursue careers in broadcasting, other technologies and/or science. At risk, too, are the public benefits which have flowed from technological innovations by hams -- and the unifying person-to-person links, across the country and around the globe, which hams have forged through their Amateur Radio conversations.
HFA'S MISSION
1. HAMS FOR ACTION (HFA) educates government decision-makers, the general public and others about the dangers of the present situation.
2. HFA takes action to substitute REASONABLE oversight of outdoor Amateur Radio antennas for the TOTAL antenna prohibitions which are currently in effect.
3. HFA also holds public officials accountable for their actions, or lack of actions, on this issue -- and on other issues which affect the Amateur Radio community.
******************************************************
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by AE6RO on October 12, 2006
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Well I watched the video and thought it was very nice. Thought it worthwile to mention that as WW II veterans, they couldn't have served in the same unit because of segregation even if they had both been Army or Navy. I don't think either man could have used that flagpole as antenna even if they had been hams. 73, AE6RO
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Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by W9ZXT on October 13, 2006
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Let me tell you something, whoever might be reading this. Take the time to re-read this aritcle and think, really think, about it. I don't live where there are people in a Home Owners Group type deal as described here so I cannot relate at all how they act or rule. One thing I would like to say, if you live anywhere in this country and someone says you cannot display the American Flag, turn your radios off and stop worrying about how you can turn your flagpole into an antenna. If you have to ask what the hell I am talking about you just don't get it. I think it's bullshit, not only the HOA, but the posts that continue to talk more about how they can put up an antenna to get around them. Ham Radio is a Hobby! This country and our freedom is not!
Nick Ashley
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by W2RDD on October 14, 2006
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Possibly the title of the article should have been; "Freedom to Display My Antenna as an American Flag Pole". I think that is the objective here. The flag itself seems to be secondary.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by AE6RO on October 14, 2006
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So the actual point of the article is people were sued and enjoined from displaying the American Flag. That's amazing, that someone could be sued for patriotism.
Tell you something else. It's disrespectful to fly the flag on an antenna, even if the antenna is disguised as a flagpole.
Lastly, people move into gated communities to stay away from the minorities and crime, they hope. There, I said it. I can't think of any other reason why a ham or anyone would move into a place that tells them what they may or may not do with their own property.
73, AE6RO
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Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N8QBY on October 15, 2006
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"Oh heck, why don't you just wrap your wife in a tin-foil dress and load her up"....
Good one. :o)
.:
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KF7PC on October 15, 2006
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I once lived in a very restricted area where the CCR restricted not only antennas, but "all RF transmitters" on your property. I went to the next HOA meeting with a radio controlled car, a garage door opener, a cell phone and my HT. They soon changed the restriction, and in fact let me put up a "flagpole" antenna in the back yard. A little education of the HOA board members can go a long way.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N6HBJ on October 15, 2006
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KC8VWN
It's not illegal for HOAs to ban antennas.
---
You are completey wrong. Satellite dishes are "unbannable"
......................................................
No I am NOT wrong - you didn't read (or comprehend) what I wrote. I said: HOAs CAN and DO ban antennas with the EXCEPTION of antennas for TV (Satellite Dish or otherise."
Did you overlook that I mentioned the exception of TV antennas?
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N6HBJ on October 15, 2006
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KC8VWN
Good! Well i'm here to inform you that I am the master when iot comes to stealth antenna's
Here's my solution to the outdoor antenna problem you indicated then...
According to you, a peron can apparently have a portable radio outside with a telescopic antenna on it sitting outside beside your BBQ right?
(Solution - The radio itself is a non working prop, The antenna on the prop is your actual outdoor antenna. The "Power cord" going to the prop is actually your coax feedline. neat stealth antenna trick huh?)
Or how about using a set of dipole radio speakers?
Simply detach and seperate the speakers from the "radio prop" using the wire between the speakers as a dipole antenna.
So you were saying?
73 Charles - KC8VWM
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"So you were saying?"
You and I were talking about the legality of putting antennas up in CC&R communities NOT methods of stealth antennas. You changed the subject. No one here is arguing against stealth antenna here - duh!
You need to seriously go back to school and "master" your reading comprehension.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N6HBJ on October 15, 2006
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"Covert a TV antenna to work as a 2 meter yagi beam.
Plans are everywhere on the internet.
Now let's just call this an OTARD antenna for TV reception because a person can in fact actually use this antenna for TV reception. Just be sure you have a TV set connected and ready so the antenna can be switched over for TV reception at a moments notice.
100% within the scope of the law. The TV must be made readily availabe for "over the air" reception puposes. You have a right to use an outdoor antenna for your TV reception purposes. It's the law!
Any other suggestions required?"
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The condo complex already has (ONE) antenna on the roof that we can all share so scratch that idea.
We can put a satellite dish on our balcony but it's only 5 x 12 feet wide. Not long enough to stretch out a wire for any HF band.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N6HBJ on October 15, 2006
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WB2WIK you bought a house at age 22?
Wow!
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by KC8VWM on October 16, 2006
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Obviously, the information I was so graciously providing in this forum was intended for other people's benefit not yours.
I am going to make a lucky guess and suspect there are probobly other people in this forum living in antenna retricted enviroments that could use some idea's.
They typically refer to this sort of post as "contributing something" to the subject at hand.
So before you start thinking that every post in this forum revolves around you and you only, perhaps you might take this into consideration in the future.
Also, please refrain from insulting my reading comprehension. I can assure you my reading comprehension is fine. In return won't insult you about your social manners.
Thank You.
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RE: Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by N6HBJ on October 16, 2006
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"Obviously, the information I was so graciously providing in this forum was intended for other people's benefit not yours."
Graciously? You mean arrogantly! If you're going to be an arrogant know it all then you should at least be CORRECT about what you say instead of spewing false information.
"So before you start thinking that every post in this forum revolves around you and you only, perhaps you might take this into consideration in the future."
I only responded to your posts where you were making comments directly to what I had said so that's a lot of baloney.
"Also, please refrain from insulting my reading comprehension. I can assure you my reading comprehension is fine. In return won't insult you about your social manners."
Perhaps if you didn't act like an arrogant know it all braggart then I wouldn't have to make those comments.
I think the biggest problem with you is that you are your own biggest fan.
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Freedom to Display the American Flag Act
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by AD5KL on October 17, 2006
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HOA's are a nuisance.
I read there is an HOA in the DFW area that is denying a veteran who just returned from Iraq the right to fly the flag. Even with a signed petition from more than enough of his neighbors, they still won't bend. That is ridiculous.
I have no use for HOA's. Usually busybodies that have nothing better to do than make others miserable. I used to have a condo with an HOA and they tried to make me pay a $75 assessment for my DirecTV dish or a fine for every day after the cutoff. Then I was told to put it in a bucket of concrete, like that would look better? Not to mention keeping it on signal. After I showed them the FCC has provisions for dish owners that they were violating, they backed off.
I bought my house based on its location and lack of HOA just for principle. If someone wants to tell me what to do with my house then they need to chip in & help pay for it. Yeah right.
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