Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
Ken Kizzee (KF4EOM)
on
November 30, 2006
View comments about this article!
With regard to the recent poll about contesting, I decided to offer this concept for Hams to chew on. This topic, as do many others in ham radio, remind me of the freedom of speech that we enjoy in the USA.
You see, freedom of speech means that you have the right to post your opinion here without fear of retribution. I may not agree with or even like your opinion, but in order for me to enjoy my freedom of speech, I have to be willing to tolerate yours.
Ham radio is a lot like that. Every one of us like some aspects of ham radio and don’t care for others. For me, I’m a ragchewer; one of those audio guys with a $10k radio, large antenna farm and 1.5 Kilowatts of power (I love how people think just because you enhance your audio that your bandwidth can somehow expand past the radio’s capability of being 3 Khz wide but that’s another article in the making). I operate on all bands, even during contests.
When a contester shows up on a freq that I’m using and calls CQ I know that it’s not because I’m running QRP on noodles for antennas and he can’t hear me, but rather because the contester is operating the contest using a wet noodle for an antenna and he can’t hear me. I don’t get mad and start jamming; what good would that do? He obviously can’t hear me anyway!
You may chose to keep operating on that freq as long as he’s not interfering too badly with your QSO; he will eventually move on when nobody calls him back because other stations hear you on the freq. The better approach may be to take the high road and move on yourself, relinquish the freq to that station and let him work the contest. Work the WARC bands or get caught up on your needlepoint etc until the contest is over.
Do I like that contesting wipes out all other activity on HF? No. Do I respect the ability of contesters to operate contests? Yes.
Why? Because it is the only way I can be sure that I can still ragchew with my enhanced audio, big antenna and 1.5 kilowatts and not be harassed by those who don’t like what I do.
This concept, in case you missed the point, is called mutual respect.
Ken
KF4EOM
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KE3HO on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
<< I love how people think just because you enhance your audio that your bandwidth can somehow expand past the radio’s capability of being 3 Khz wide but that’s another article in the making >>
I hate how people think that you can "enhance" your audio WITHOUT increasing your bandwidth beyond the radio's "capability" of being 3 kHz wide. The 3 kHz (or 2.7 kHz, or 2.4 kHz, whatever filtering your rig has) is in the IF stage that shapes your signal going INTO the mixer(s), power amplifier(s), etc. It DOES NOT limit your transmitted bandwidth. Anything you do to increase your audio bandwidth increases your transmitted odd-order IMD products and increases your transmitted bandwidth. Even without increasing your audio bandwidth, just boosting the low frequency end will increase the magnitude of your IMD products. I wish this myth that the transmitted bandwidth is limited by the rig's IF filter would die a well deserved death.
73 - Jim
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KB9CRY on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Do I like that contesting wipes out all other activity on HF?
But it doesn't do this. The CW contest ops stay down in the CW portion, freeing up the SSB portion, etc. etc. And as you stated the WARC bands are always open.
Yes, there are bad contesters who are inconsiderate. That is unfortunate. But as you've also stated sometimes it may be a better plan, knowing that a contest is about to fire up, to move to an alternate frequency or band and avoid these yahoos.
What I see is that some folks are not flexible nor have any Plan B and that too is unfortunate.
Phil KB9CRY
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W9WHE-II on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"You see, freedom of speech means that you have the right to post your opinion here without fear of retribution".
Uhhh...not really.
The first amendment does NOT guarntee you a right to post here free from retribution! The 1st amendment ONLY limits GOVERNMENT action, not private conduct. That is why the kook-fringe that lurks here can (and does so frequiently) launch personal attacks. Moreover, this is a private BBS, so they can regulate content pretty much as the owners deem fit, which is why filthy sexual comments about hams mothers are so quickly removed!
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by N4LI on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W9WHE beat me to the punch, but let me amplify.
There is NO ONE on Earth who is a bigger fan of the 1st Amendment than me. But, it's amazing how many folks do not understand what the Amendment is about. Let's read:
"Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech." (state religion stuff omitted)
So, as long as Congress, or a state actor (since the passage of the 14th Amendment) is not the regulator, we're slick. Now, this is a private forum. That means the owner, or his agent, has every legal right to edit me, delete me, or to otherwise abridge "the" freedom of my speech. (We'll leave out a discussion of the importance of the word "the" in the Amendment for another day; it's an interesting, but esoteric discussion)
So, the 1st Amendment and contesting have NOTHING to do with one another. While I certainly agree that we should be tolerant of other operators during contests, as well as other times, the Constitution does not so dictate.
Perhaps instead of the Constitution, we should look to the classic and underrated film, "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" as a guide to contesting behavior. Let's "Be Excellent to Each Other!"
Peter, N4LI
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W5TD on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W9WHE, well said. I was going to say the same thing. Freedom of speech does not mean that I can't write a comment is stupid when I think it is stupid. We have tried to find all sorts of additional freedoms that aren't in the Constitution or Bill of Rights. And remember, the Bill of Rights is set up to limit GOVERNMENT, not the individual.
73s John W5TD
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by RADIOBOB on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Far from being an engineer, I have to agree with KE3HO on the issue of bandwidth. My common sense, experience, and on air experiences tell me he is probably correct.
Why wait till some trumped up article, written to defend the use of “audio HiFi” is posted. Let’s do it now. We have bashed around contesting a lot lately. There have to be some individuals out there that can answer this question once and for all. Someone out there has to be able to do the math. It’s simple. Either expanded audio causes QRM to the side bands, or it doesn’t. For all those “Ham HiFi” buffs out there, if you want to sound like a late night DJ on the mellow Blues hour, buy yourself a FM radio station and be as “HiFi” as you want. And oh yes, most of the Ham HiFi buffs are opening up there rigs to more than 3 Kc, and making adjustments and mods that their radios were not designed for.
No let’s open up this can of worms now.
And, no I am not a contester. I find the number of contest to be a pain in the neck. Real contesting should take place during the middle of the week. Then we would see how really important contesting is to the people who relish it so much. How about it ?? is contesting worth using up you time off, sick days, vacation time, smaller pay check, lose a few sales contacts. Is it worth it ??, or maybe all contest should be confined to 100 kc for SSB and 50 kc for digital. Now that would really be a joy to listen to.
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by WA8MEA on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
But it doesn't do this. The CW contest ops stay down in the CW portion, freeing up the SSB portion, etc. etc. And as you stated the WARC bands are always open.
-----------------------------
I don't think the issue is contesting, per se. But the AMOUNT of contests that have reared their ugly heads over the past decade.
You now have QSO Parties for every state. There's 50 contests right there. Add in the ARRL/CQ/WR Contests, along with the DX contests, and I can guarantee you that at least TWO contests are taking place every dam weekend.
WARC bands? Two of the four are just about useless right now. And all four are just about useless after sunset during this sunspot low.
Here's a sampling of what's taking place NEXT weekend:
ARRL 10 Meter Contest
28 MHz SWL Contest
Holiday Spirits Homebrew CW Sprint
Great Colorado Snowshoe Run
North American Meteor Scatter Contest
OK DX RTTY Contest
PSK31 Death Match
Russian 160 Meter Contest
Croatian CW Contest
Now I am sure somebody will break this down by band and mode, and try to explain away NINE different contests in the same weekend. But we all know deep down inside there is only one word for this:
Ridiculous!
73, Bill - WA8MEA
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W9WHE-II on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Contests do nothing to improve the image of ham radio in the public's eye.
In fact, should any non-ham get a listen to what contests are REALLY all about, they would be outraged that a government asset is being mis-used in such a silly way.
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by K0BG on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
In a recent poll, the ARRL asked if you were planning to operate the ARRL Sweepstakes. About 25% said yes in one form or another, about 40% said no, and 35% didn't know what sweepstakes was. Sort of brings new light to the subject, doesn't it?
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by NS6Y_ on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
PSK31 Death Match??????? The nerdiest of all modes and it's being called a Death Match??? I mean, they can't even stand a little 31337-speek on there, it freaks the poor babies out.
Maybe death match because there's always the chance they'll spill coke in their keyboard, death for a $20 peripheral.
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
should any non-ham get a listen to what contests are REALLY all about, they would be outraged that a government asset is being mis-used in such a silly way.
---------------
Most people in society are concerned about more important things like the war in Iraq, terrorism, government spending, the economy and health care.
Contesting in most people's minds is like a sport. Pro bass fishing for radio operators if you will.
The "outraged" idea is for hams to build a station, pushing the limits of that station as a way of measuring it's level of performance. Nascar engages in a similar activity but they build and tweak automobiles instead of radio equipment.
I doubt any non ham would even care about contesters on ham radio engaged in such activities any differently than a group of people who are engage in the pro bass fishing circuit.
73
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W6TH on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
And remember, the Bill of Rights is set up to limit GOVERNMENT, not the individual.
I've been preaching this for a life time and seems you're the first I have ever heard, seen mention this.
How little the Americans know about the Constitution of each and every state and the Federal Government.
Americans have given up their freedom by letting the Government take over and control.
How about this of the Bill of Rights:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
What happened at Katrina?
In contests I move or join them. No problem to move and let them enjoy themselves, that is why the warc bands were given for our use so the ARRL contesters could enjoy what they enjoy most.
Let freedom ring.
.:
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by VE6CNU on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
After reading all this stuff, I'm not sure if the topic is Freedom of Speech, HI-FI audio, or the pluses and minuses of contesting. I will say this, however. I take part in the major contests and really enjoy this aspect of the hobby. I also enjoy DXing and the occasional rag chew. So far, I haven't found these activities mutually exclusive. If the bands are poor I use the time to clean up the shack, do QSL cards, tinker with stuff or a hundred other things. I've also found the vast majority of ham operators very courteous and helpful. As with anything, a few bad apples tend to get most of the attention and perhaps we need more effective ways of dealing with them. One can also argue about the implications of "dumbing down" the licensing qualifications in order to keep numbers up. Overall, I'd say things are pretty good. There are many places around the world that don't share our freedoms on or off the air!
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by N2OBY on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
<<In fact, should any non-ham get a listen to what contests are REALLY all about, they would be outraged that a government asset is being mis-used in such a silly way.>>
You're mistaken in your belief that the RF spectrum is a government asset. While there is a need for some regulation, even the ham radio community at large disagrees with your statement; as evidenced whenever the feds decide to auction off chunks of the spectrum to commercial interests.
Public outrage over contesting? Not likely. However there would be after listening to some operators on 75 meters or many local VHF/UHF repeaters.
Oh - of the nine contests mentioned for this coming weekend, I believe that maybe two are phone. One on 160 meters (sure will be a lot of displaced folks there, huh?), the other on 10 meters (same comment). The rest are various digital modes. Not a lot to complain about guys...
-Ken N2OBY
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W7ETA on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I seem to remember its more like 97 saying we do not own a frequency.
Course, if you accept that, there's not much left one can complain or pontificate about. Unless you have the view that the world should act according to your preferences.
Best Wishes and 73
Bob
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KB1SF on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W9WHE wrote: "Contests do nothing to improve the image of ham radio in the public's eye. In fact, should any non-ham get a listen to what contests are REALLY all about, they would be outraged that a government asset is being mis-used in such a silly way".
Silly? By whose standards?
As other posters here have so eloquently stated, one of the attractions of Amateur Radio is that it's really several hobbies in one. This means that one person's "silly" is another person's "passion." Just as long as we all operate within the rules (and exercise some common courtesy) the sky should be the limit.
What's more, if someone gets tired of their current "passion", they can always move on to something else. And, thankfully, we don't need your (or anyone else's) permission to do that.
One thing that is also very nice about Ham Radio is that if we happen to inadvertently display our own arrogance or ignorance on a subject, it's usually only between ourselves and the one or two other people listening on the same frequency.
However, here, it is far easier for us to REALLY look like fools (and all at the speed of light no less!) because a much wider audience is usually "listening".
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KB3LSR on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
The freedom of speech does not apply to radio transmissions. The freedom of speech applies to written materials (as long as they are not defamatory in nature) and verbal comments (as long as they are not defamatory either). Even if it is defamatory in nature, it is not illegal, but you can be sued for it. Radio waves do not equal freedom of speech, just like the infinite airspace above your property does not mean you own it and any jet or spaceship passing through cannot commit a trespass. Also, the Amateur Bands are a privilige and not a right, so even if the First Amendment did apply, the FCC could revoke them at any time and render them unavailable to us.
That's just from my standpoint though. I'm sure others will feel differently. At least in the US we are allowed to disagree.
Actually, I read an interesting amateur radio case in where this guy's neighbors sued for a Private Nusiance because of the RFI coming from his shack. The court said that since the FCC has jurisdiction over the RFI matters, they can only file a complaint with the FCC and they cannot sue for a private nusiance. I forget the case name, but I thought it was interesting.
73 de KB3LSR
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by N3JBH on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Was this article written about respecting each other? I don’t believe the author really intended this to be about arguing over contest or hifi ssb or any other mode. I really believe what he was trying to say was there needs to be more respect given to other ham’s. And yes I will admit I have at times become not so pleasant on here. But I never had been nasty mean or inconsiderate on the air.
Now if we could see the posters here on eham and other websites not are mean nasty or inconsiderate that is really remarkable indeed. Sadly we live in a time where the few dictate to the masses. Example about 70% of Americans are christens yet we seeing the battle every day to remove religion away from the public eye.
Now I am sure there is some lawyer on here that can tell me how many volumes of law has been written for us to abide by here in the good ole USA. Better yet I love to know just how many individual laws there are we are to follow. Then I dare ask if we followed the 10 commandments the lord has set in stone for us would we really need all the rest?
Well I shall wait and see just what sort of disrespect I get for this posting yours truly Jeff N3JBH
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by OZ8AGB on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"But it doesn't do this. The CW contest ops stay down in the CW portion, freeing up the SSB portion, etc. etc."
No so. 40m was filled with CW from one end to the other this weekend.
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W4LGH on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
1st off let me say that I am NOT a contester. I like to ragchew, but I will make contact with a contester if my contact will help him. Most of the time if you tell them the freq is busy, they will move off, most of the time...however there are exceptions, as there is with every rule. I don't have a $10K rig, nor big antennas with unlimited QRO power. I do have a nice FT-1000MP MKV and I do have several nice wire antennas, and I can fire up 1000watts if needed. Most of the time it is not needed, and it stays off. If you can't hear them, you can't talk to them.
As long as the contesters are respectful, I have no problems with it. If that's their thing then so be it.. but after 2 or 3 times of saying "you are 59 001" I get real bored. And you always have to option of turning your rig off and doing something else!
Thats the great thing about ham radio, many different things to do, try them all, find your nitch.
As for audio enhansement, I have a fairly nice audio setup, Berhinger B1 mic, into Behringer DSP110 for compression/limiting and noise gate, then into a small EQ to polish off the sound. Most of your newer radios DO have filtering in the transmit audio chain, such as the FT-1000, which you can adjust thru fixed ranges. Also the addition of LOW-END as everyone says, doesn't broaden your spectrum, it is at the LOW end... if you run 2.7kc as I do, that is 1cycle to 2700cycles... my radio is set to 150-2.7K and no matter how hard I push any freq. above or below, it gets filtered out. I have watched my signal on a spectrum analyzer and it drops at 2.7kc. So there's the end of that myth. Now the older radios, and the radios where the guys go directly into the balanced modulator, bypassing the filtering..thats another story, but again, my audio goes right into the mic jack.
Ham radio is the same as Motorcycling...and as we say in Motorcycling...
RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE!!!
73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
Check us out on the web!
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by N1XBP on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
If the claim is that using an EQ to boost your highs and lows on transmitted audio is blocked by filtering... why are you doing it in the first place then? If it isn't transmitted then no one should be able to make use of it.
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KD7YVV on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
It's true that there are a lot of contests, and there
are times when I do participate, but how many is too many? I'm currently working towards the Worked All States
award, and just taking my time doing it.
When I get a new state, I add it to my list, but I'm in
no hurry. The world is already in too much of a rush.
There are times I do enjoy the competition even
though all I have is a long wire, a tuner, and
a Kenwood TS-430S.
It passes the time and I meet new and interesting people.
Good advice I was given by my Grandfather:
"God gave us two ears and one mouth. Had He wanted us
to talk more than we listen, He would have given us
two mouths and one ear."
I've always found it best to treat people how I wish to
be treated. Doing so makes for a very easy life.
It is an unfortunate fact that there are stations I may
not hear that are using a frequency, but I do take the
time to listen. After all, listening is half the
conversation.
Have a good holiday season everyone.
--KD7YVV, Kirkland, WA
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by K9OSC on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I think most responding to this article missed the real message. It IS about mutual respect and TOLERANCE!
A well written article with an excellent approach towards promoting more friendly and useable amateur bands during contesting and times when the bands are really busy. Following some of the suggestions proffered would also present a much more positive image of amateur radio to those outside of the hobby, something we can always use.
Well done!
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by G0GQK on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
What's this about the general public and contests ?
Its about time the penny dropped, the public know next to nothing about amateur radio, and they know absolutely nothing about contests. And you know what ?
They couldn't care less ! They are not interested.
G0GQK
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by AE6RF on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
> In fact, should any non-ham get a listen to what
> contests are REALLY all about, they would be
> outraged that a government asset is being mis-used
> in such a silly way.
Nah, the government holds the spectrum as a trustee for the public.
This "government asset" to be bought and sold is a reasonably new concept...
-Donald
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W9WHE-II on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Nah, the government holds the spectrum as a trustee for the public".
Even if that were true, a trustee holds LEGAL TITLE, not the benificiary!
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W6TH on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting. Read on you lovers of free speach. Put yourself to blame.
Declaration of Independence
In Congress, July 4, 1776,
The Unanimous Declaration of the Thirteen United States of America
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws of Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our People, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power. He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by by our laws;
giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any
Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the Lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have We been wanting in attention to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emi- gration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
JOHN HANCOCK
New Hampshire THOS. STONE JAMES WILSON,
JOSIAH BARTLETT CHARLES CARROLL GEO. ROSS.
WM. WHIPPLE, OF CARROLLTON. Delaware
MATTHEW THORNTON. Virginia CAESAR RODNEY,
Massachusetts-Bay GEORGE WHYTE, GEO. READ,
SAML. ADANS, RICHARD HENRY LEE, THO. M'KEAN.
JOHN ADAMS, TH. JEFFERSON, North Carolina
ROBT. TREAT PAINE, BENJA. HARRISON, WM. HOOPER,
ELBRIDGE GERRY. THS. NELSON, JR., JOSEPH HEWES,
Rhode Island FRANCIS LIGHTFOOT JOHN PENN.
STEP. HOPKINS, LEE, South Carolina
WILLIAM ELLERY. CARTER BRAXTON. EDWARD RUTHLEDGE
Connecticut New York THOS. HEYWARD,
ROGER SHERMAN, WM. FLOYD, JUNR.,
SAM'EL HUNTINGTON, PHIL. LIVINGSTON, THOMAS LYNCH,
WM. WILLIAMS, FRANS. LEWIS, JUNR.,
OLIVER WOLCOTT LEWIS MORRIS. ARTHUR MIDDLETON.
Georgia FRANS. LEWIS, New Jersey
BUTTON GWINNETT, Pennsylvania RICHD. STOCKTON,
LYMAN HALL, ROBT. MORRIS, JNO. WITHERSPOON,
GEO. WALTON. BENJAMIN RUSH, FRAS. HOPKINSON,
Maryland BENJA. FRANKLIN, JOHN HART,
SAMUEL CHASE, JOHN MORTON, ABRA. CLARK.
WM.PACA, GEO. CLYMER,
JAS. SMITH,
GEO. TAYLOR
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KA5ROW on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I would like to see contesting on HF sharply reduced. If we had only one contest per month and then every other month or so have the contest in mid week, as not to ruin the weekend. Then I believe a lot of hams would appreciate the break, I can not understand what anybody get's out of trading contact info and rushing to the next just to get the same type of info, and do that for hours, just to see how many contacts they can make. The only exception to this I can see is Field Day. With that exception, I see no value in contesting. Other than it is a mensis, nuisance and ruins ham radio for that weekend. If I turn on my radio and I hear a contest in action I just say dam and turn it off.
Now I realize some of you live for contesting and that is OK, and your right, but that is just my option no hard feelings.
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by N2OBY on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
<<I can not understand what anybody get's out of trading contact info and rushing to the next just to get the same type of info, and do that for hours, just to see how many contacts they can make.>>
KA5ROW:
Exactly - you can't understand it. But since the bands apparently seem to fill with more contesters than non-contesters during events, using your logic and that of similar posts in this thread it would seem that ragchewers, DX'ers and other non-contesting types should confine THEIR activities to mid-week or only enjoy them every other week or so.
Why do I think that wouldn't go over very well?
BTW - I enjoy ALL aspects of amateur radio, including contesting. I can't believe that this is such an issue. There is more than enough spectrum, modes and yes - other things besides radio to occupy all of us!
Likewise, no hard feelings...
73,
Ken N2OBY
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by N3OX on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"If I turn on my radio and I hear a contest in action I just say dam and turn it off."
Have you ever actually given it a try? Contesting tends to open up 15m and 10m even in the doldrums of the sunspot cycle.
You can also try out the WARC bands.
I'm not making a statement about contesters vs. ragchewers, or whether or not I think there should be more contests. I'm just saying that I can find things to do on the air if there's a major contest and I don't want to participate.
Of course, I don't have a favorite frequency on 20m or anything like that.
Dan
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W6TH on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
BTW - I enjoy ALL aspects of amateur radio, including contesting. I can't believe that this is such an issue. There is more than enough spectrum, modes and yes - other things besides radio to occupy all of us!
I agree to this.
Can't we get something of knowledge on these posts, like how to build a crystal set, how to make an antenna, etc?
Maybe print the scores of the contesters, Hey! that sounds good.
.:
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
If we had only one contest per month and then every other month or so have the contest in mid week, as not to ruin the weekend. Then I believe a lot of hams would appreciate the break,
---------------
Gee, I would hate my weekend to be completely ruined because of other people engaged in a contest!?
So I guess this means amateur radio and weekends are limited to either ragchewing with your buddies or relentless hardcore contesting... right?
Contesters (and rag chewers for that matter) are a very small part of amateur radio in my mind. I suppose this explains why it's such a HUGE problem for those that only engage in the idea of depressing the PTT button as thier primary definition of "weekend ham radio" related activities.
My weekend isn't ruined by either activity myself. I would much rather prefer to build a new antenna, restore an old boatanchor, clean up the shack or try tackling a new electronic project anyways. If I happen to make a QSO or two along the way, that's fine, but if not.. pfffft. It really doesn't matter. It's just not critically important to me that I do so.
There is much more to explore in amateur radio than the idea of just exchanging radio transmissions with one another. I am sure there are some contesters that feel there should be no ragchewers allowed on weekends and vice versa. There are probobly some digital operators that feel there should be no CW operators and vice versa, there are probobly people driving red automobiles that feel everyone driving white automobiles, should drive red automobiles instead and vice versa ..yada yada yada.
Regardless, my "ham radio" weekends are always fun, entertaining and most enjoyable in many other ways.
Live and let live... This way, you will get to enjoy life, amateur radio and much more.
73 de Charles KC8VWM
|
| |
|
How does contesting open up a band?
|
|
|
by WB4M on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
" Contesting tends to open up 15m and 10m even in the doldrums of the sunspot cycle. "
How does a contest improve atmospheric conditions? Does one type of contest increase or improve propagation in some way over the other contests? Someone explain to me how a contest can "open a band".
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by N0AH on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Ken,
You really do have way too much time on your hands. Going to Target now. I hear that they are selling George Washington, Ben Franklyn TelleTubbies today!
For those of us who are about to QSY over your whopper station signal, we salute you-
|
| |
|
RE: How does contesting open up a band?
|
|
|
by K0RFD on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
It's easy.
When there isn't a contest on, you hear no signals. The bands must be closed. (In reality, nobody is using those bands.) When there's a contest and people are actually using their radios instead of bitching about contesters on the internet, all of a sudden you hear signals. The bands must have suddenly opened, because they sure were closed yesterday.
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by N0AH on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W6TH,
Someone is using your call to make you look like a lid-waxed charter sauce brain coral head here on this thread-
Just thought I'd let you know-
Sincerely,
Paul Revere
KH0RSE/7
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W6TH on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
N0AH
Someone is using your call to make you look like a lid-waxed charter sauce brain coral head here on this thread-
Just thought I'd let you know-
Sincerely,
Thomas Jefferson.
.:
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by K1OU on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W9WHE says,
"Contests do nothing to improve the image of ham radio in the public's eye.
In fact, should any non-ham get a listen to what contests are REALLY all about, they would be outraged that a government asset is being mis-used in such a silly way."
And I am willing to bet they would gather the same impression by listening to a bunch of old farts talk about their colostomy bags.
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W6TH on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
.
Actually contesting has its place on the Amateur bands and does bring activity to the bands. It is a good happening to bring enjoyment to many otherwise the bands would continuously be vacated.
It is what W5HTW, Ed mentioned, about two years ago that with the amount of CB'ers now coming into ham radio, there will be many going to the 20 meter band and just working skip and the contests. My, how right he was.
Amazing how some can see into the future.
.:
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by K1OU on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W9WHE blathers..
"Moreover, this is a private BBS, so they can regulate content pretty much as the owners deem fit, which is why filthy sexual comments about hams mothers are so quickly removed!"
Thanks for reaffirming that I own you.
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by AB0WR on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Why wait till some trumped up article, written to defend the use of “audio HiFi” is posted. Let’s do it now. We have bashed around contesting a lot lately. There have to be some individuals out there that can answer this question once and for all. Someone out there has to be able to do the math. It’s simple. Either expanded audio causes QRM to the side bands, or it doesn’t. For all those “Ham HiFi” buffs out there, if you want to sound like a late night DJ on the mellow Blues hour, buy yourself a FM radio station and be as “HiFi” as you want. And oh yes, most of the Ham HiFi buffs are opening up there rigs to more than 3 Kc, and making adjustments and mods that their radios were not designed for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Studies associated with high intelligiblity speech over the past decade has shown that speech up to 6kz contributes greatly to intelligibility. Many fire annuciator designs in buildings are being designed with this in mind. Audio designs for classrooms will require up to 12khz speech in order to get proper environments for students.
So this isn't all a matter of being a "late night DJ". That isn't to say that there aren't some of those out there. But don't lump all extended audio into that category.
Extended audio bandwidth does NOT have to cause intermod products to be produced, either in-channel or adjacent-channel. It depends upon how the transmitter chain is setup. If done properly it can generate a very high intelligibility signal that greatly extends the ability to communicate in weak-signal conditions.
Please note that this has little to do with enhanced bass. That provides very little increase in intelligibility but, because of the spectral power in these low frequencies, it puts a huge demand on the transmitter chain for very little gain.
My advice would be to not run off half-cocked about those experimenting with extended audio being nothing but "hi fi hams" without doing some real study of the subject.
tim ab0wr
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W9OY on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I don't get this article. The government grants you a license to use certain frequencies in the radio spectrum in certain mandated ways. Contesters meet the mandate as do hifi freaks. There is no "freedom of speech", except for what is mandated. You can't sing for example nor can you make one way transmissions.
73 W9OY
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by N3YZ on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Contests are good...
Contests certainly serve several purposes. Fun and wall paper for those who participate. Challenges for those who must "work around" the contestors.
However, and more importantly, contests provide data to support the efforts to retain bandwidth against the onslaught of commercial, military and other interests.
Is it any wonder the ARRL sponsors so many contests. The data is easily there to justify the need for the bandwidth... atleast during the contests (evidenced by the many complaints seen here).
Because at other times the bands are often deathly quiet...and thats not so good.
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by N0AH on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Contest and propagation data- excellent suggestion-There is a ton of knowledge out there that could be part of an informatived educated thread-
Sincerely,
John Adams
|
| |
|
Infinite Quantity & Contesting?
|
|
|
by AI2IA on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I believe that this article misses the big bone of contention - THE SHEER QUANTITY OF CONTESTS ON THE BANDS, ESPECIALLY ON WEEKENDS.
The solution "move to a WARC band" implies that Contesting has the highest priority and the greater right to "take over" a band.
Now, understand, I have no real beef here. I am retired and prefer to operate on weekdays. Also, my XYL heaps many chores on me on weekends, so the bands on weekends could be end-to-end pirate stations for all I know or care personally, but for the other hams out there, I once again raise the above two points in the hope that others on both sides will discuss them.
|
| |
|
RE: Infinite Quantity & Contesting?
|
|
|
by W4LGH on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
In response to....
"If the claim is that using an EQ to boost your highs and lows on transmitted audio is blocked by filtering... why are you doing it in the first place then? If it isn't transmitted then no one should be able to make use of it."
Because you can improve the audio quality between the bandwidth frequencies. Believe it or not, 150 to 2.7K more than covers just about anyones vocal range, actually the vocal range is around 300 to 2400hz. The radio or eq can NOT produce frequencies that are not in your vocal range, just improve them.
As I said, there are those who bypass the filters and go directly into the balanced modulator do go out of the 3K gentlemans agreement.
73 de W4LGH - Alan
Check us out on the web...
http://www.w4lgh.com
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by WA1RNE on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
- Freedom Of Speech & Contesting........too much of each at the same time, is that what this means???
> Freedom of Speech & Ham Radio .........a good mix, so far so good, 4 letter dittys and Karoke not withstanding.
> Freedom of Speech & Ham Radio - w/ Courtesy ........we try.
>> Freedom of Speech & Ham Radio - w/Courtesy & Contesting........contentious, overwhelming and pushing the envelope. Lack of humanistic tone makes CW the exception.
There's the analysis, oil and water.....
WA1RNE
|
| |
|
RE: Infinite Quantity & Contesting?
|
|
|
by W5GNB on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
ALL contesting (Including Field Day - and yes, it is a contest!!!) should be restricted to ONE or TWO frequencies.
How about 14.313 and 14.275 Plus or minus 100HZ.
It is the BIG DOG that is supposed to win anyway so let's get all the DOGS on the same frequency so there will not be a hugh waste of time tuning around looking for the other DOGS!
This will also suppress the LIDS who tend to operate on these two frequencies and it will allow those of us who despise the present method of contesting to be able to operate in a NORMAL manor, especially on the weekends.
Seems like a real SIMPLE solution to me!!
73's
Gary - W5GNB
|
| |
|
RE: Infinite Quantity & Contesting?
|
|
|
by W0RER on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by K8UPA on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
In my opinion everyone has the right to do what they want in regards to radio, be it psk cw or God forbid, internet relay. Some of it bothers me to a point but that's a good time to shut er down and enjoy family and friends, it's only a hobby.
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by NS6Y_ on November 30, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Over in Europe contesting is called "radio sport" and it is a sport, just as much as golf, bass fishing, billiards, etc. Is it as hard physically as the shot-put? No..... Is it mentally demanding? Yes!
And what's wrong with an innocent hobby/sport? Ours just has the added benefit that in an emergency, we're generally the only ones left talking.
There was a discussion about contesting a while back on here, and one contester made a very good point - you'll never find a contest on 30-meters, or other non-conest freqs.
There's room for all of us.
Let's talk about something that hasn't been done to death.... how about: 31337-speek on PSK31, An Idea Whose Time Has Come?
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by K0PD on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I my self am not bothered by the contester's and yes i've been in the middle of a qso and had them start calling while we were in conversation. But look is this not the umteenth time just like the CW debate's that this been hashed over. So look the contester's are not quitting so life will go on and in a month or two some one else will bring this debate up again just like as sure as i'm setting here typing this some one will bring up the CW debate again.....
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by K1OU on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W5GNB suggests...
"ALL contesting (Including Field Day - and yes, it is a contest!!!) should be restricted to ONE or TWO frequencies."
Better idea: Restrict all ragchewing to 146.52.
Makes as much sense.
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W1XZ on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I have been interfered with by contesters, splattered on by hifi ssber's, stepped on by dx'ers, chased off by "50 years on the same frequency" net ops, and told to leave the repeater by some guy in a dayglo vest counting elephants in a parade. I have shaken my head at hams who send dipoles back to the manufacturer for repair, can't operate a 2 meter radio, don't know what weak signal work is on VHF/UHF, and think that weather effects 75 meter propogation. I have read many ads on QRZ for radios that have manuels and are in excellant condition, not to mention the ones that are in mint condition but untested because the poster doesn't know what it is or lacks an antenna to try it out.
I flip the dial, change the page, or go do something else. There are lots of nice folks on ham radio who probably think just like you...go find them and communicate. After all, that is what we do.
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Contesting
|
|
|
by NT4XT on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Yeah, like once a year there's the NYC Marathon, or Peachtree Road Race.
Well, you can forget about driving down Peachtree Street when that contest starts, you'll have to plan on an alternate route.
Sort of like the big contest when the starting bell rings. Say, CQWW-CW, on 40. You might be able to find a "clear" frequency...
if you have a brick wall 1 Kc to 300 Hz roof going into a 250 IF filter with DSP cranked to 100 Hz, that is, LOL! (But there'd still be sporadic or virtually permanent QRM).
All hail O2.
;-)
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Contesting
|
|
|
by N4CQR on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
But if hams were fisherman... There would be a group sitting about six inches from the
bank in Coleman Colossus boats bitching about the the guys on the lake with the Ranger
Z22 COMANCHE. And the amount of surface area the Ranger took up and how annoying it is
for them to be involved in that silly fishing stuff.
JCS
---------------------------
Contesting in most people's minds is like a sport. Pro bass fishing for radio operators if you will.
The "outraged" idea is for hams to build a station, pushing the limits of that station as a way of
measuring it's level of performance. Nascar engages in a similar activity but they build and tweak
automobiles instead of radio equipment. I doubt any non ham would even care about contesters on ham
radio engaged in such activities any differently than a group of people who are engage in the pro
bass fishing circuit.
----------------------------
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by K1CJS on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hmmm....seems to me that something is being left out. I've seen 'freedom of speech' used here to say contesters have the rights to use any frequency available--under the agreements, that is. I've seen it used to say the contesters and the other hams who aren't contesting have the same rights. Just about anything about how things are done by either side has been mentioned,
BUT NOBODY HAS SAID A WORD ABOUT PART 97!
That is what we should be going by when looking for guidance about who can use what, not "I can do that because the constitution gives me freedom of speech."
I will say that those who say unless there is a contest going the bands are almost dead. Sure looks like it to a listener.
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W2NSF on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by N1XBP on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I took part in an email contest once but I just got in trouble for spamming.
Seriously, though, am I the only one getting tired of the same several gripes appearing over and over here? Contesters/Everyone else, Code/No Code, HiFi/no HiFi, How inconsiderate those <insert any mode> guys are, anything where "CB" is used as a put down, "the good ol days", perceived attacks on CW, how hams are getting dumber..
Is there anywhere else where those of us who would rather read something useful to the hobby can congregate off-air? If not, maybe we should induce a self-imposed moratorium on the above. Maybe we're getting dumber because of all this nonsense.
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
am I the only one getting tired of the same several gripes appearing over and over here?
----------------
Nope...
I would prefer to see more "how to" project articles with lotsa great pictures myself.
I guess this means I should get busy writing something huh? :)
73
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KB9CRY on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
They only crab about SSB contests that use the 20/40/80 meter bands. Any other contest activity or use of other bands does not bring these types of complaints.
One would think that they'd know that these big contests are coming (I wonder if that info is posted somewhere or maybe these contests are always held at the same time of the year?) and have a Plan B and utilize that.
Change is a terrible thing, isn't it folks?!
Phil
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KD2BD on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KA5ROW wrote:
> I can not understand what anybody gets out of trading
> contact info and rushing to the next just to get the
> same type of info, and do that for hours, just to see
> how many contacts they can make.
One word: Ego
I would see contesting as being more of a benefit to the Amateur Radio Service as a whole if perhaps participation required an exploration into a new and innovative transmitter, receiver, antenna design, frequency band, or modulation type. NOW you've accomplished something!
To simply use state-of-the-art commercial equipment, lots of power, lots of tower, on HF (!!), where it has been done to death for generations seems to me like shooting fish in a barrel. Sorry, but I don't see the point.
And, yes, there are some who "soup up" engines, race cars, and compete among one another. But you don't find them racing alongside regular drivers on public roads. I wonder why?
(I'd bet they'd consider the daily commuters who take the same route day after day an annoying impediment to their much needed adrenalin rush, as well.)
73, de John, KD2BD
http://kd2bd.ham.org/
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by WB8UHZ on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
As WA8MEA noted "its the number of contests" and He listed, as just an example the number of contests scheduled for only this weekend. He is clearly correct,
contesting is not an occasional activity but an event that goes on weekend after weekend. CQ magazine the contesters magazine once reported in a poll by CQ that only 2% of hams particpate in a contest as a number one interest. The PROBLEM with contesting is that it only takes a handfull of contesters to destroy the band, any band. How many hams would you say are in Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania, lets say 50,000 in each state. The 40 meter band currently has phone frequencies from 7.150 to 7.300. Take just 500 of those 150,000 available hams all calling and trying to make JUST ONE contact with each other and the entire 150 KHZ on the 40 meter phone band is occupied. This is really not acceptable, to have such a small percentage of hams take over the spectrum. I recall not that long ago when the ARRL SS, as an example required those operating in the SS contest to only use a "PORTION" of the band. That was a good idea that should be used again.
tim wb8uhz
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
As WA8MEA noted "its the number of contests" and He listed, as just an example the number of contests scheduled for only this weekend. He is clearly correct,contesting is not an occasional activity but an event that goes on weekend after weekend.
---------------
It's not the "number" of contests, it's that practically every single contest seems to be solely focused on operating only on HF bands.
Want a real challenge? Try some VHF weak signal work or EME DX sometime.
...Now THAT"S what I call a contest!
Any piece of spaghetti can work a contest on HF.
73
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KB1SF on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
John, KD2BD wrote: One word: Ego
True. But, then again, the "mine is bigger than yours" theme winds its way through a number of other aspects of Ham Radio, the least of which is perpetuating the FCC's stupid Incentive Licensing foolishness and its various "achievement tests" and associated "rewards".
And, besides the "bragging rights" aspects of contesting, the contesting genre HAS brought about a number of positives to the hobby. For example, the need for quick QSO entry and recall in contests has generated a whole host of easy-to-use computer logging software programs. And, in many ways, the need to separate one signal from another on a crowded contest band has led to fantastic advances in receiver design, including DSP.
Now, one can certainly argue that such advances would have happened anyway. However, contesting created the specific need for these things to which manufacturers (and the software gurus) eagerly responded.
Now, those of us who have absolutely no interest in contests whatsoever (like me) certainly have enough reasons to gripe about such activity. On the other hand, I'm always pleased to see contests generating much needed activity on our bands that might not be there without them.
Just before I stepped down as President of AMSAT-NA, I remember some of our experimenters had proposed placing a wideband (HF to UHF and above) receiver on one of our satellites then under construction. The receiver would be able to listen on any frequency (or series of frequencies) on these bands from Low Earth orbit and would even digitally store what it heard for later download.
Unfortunately, this was all happening at about the same time the ARRL was locked in battle with the “Little LEOs” who had formally requested parts of our 2m and 70 Cm spectrum be re-allocated to the commercial satellite service for their world-wide use.
Needless to say, once the ARRL got wind of what AMSAT was proposing, they had a cow. Why? Simply because the downloads from our wideband receiver would show, beyond a shadow of doubt, that our Ham bands are NOT being used in an “efficient” manner and that the Little LEO proponents could now use that information against us to argue their case for world-wide sharing (if not re-allocation) of our spectrum! Sadly, based purely on current spectral use, it became painfully clear that our Amateur Radio interests simply wouldn’t have a leg to stand on in such an argument.
Now, while it appears the “Little LEO” threat has gone away (at least for the moment), I think the long-term implications of this issue should be a wake-up call to us all.
That is, I believe the principle threat to Amateur Radio’s existence these days is simply our own lack of interest. Many of us still have licenses, but fewer and fewer of us are regularly operating on the air. And, in the eyes of some VERY well heeled commercial interests (who, by the way, are also listening to us) that makes our bands “ripe for the picking” because, except during contest weekends and a few relatively narrow spots in our spectrum (like 75 meters) our bands are now mostly empty from end to end.
That is, in the eyes of these commercial interests, we are now sitting on GOBS of commercially valuable spectrum space that’s being “wasted” on an ever-dwindling bunch of crusty curmudgeons using their quaint, tube-type radios.
While it’s certainly fun to reminisce about “what was” and "what should be" regarding our frequencies, the sad truth is that we live in the present, not the past. And, unless we all (yours truly included) begin spending a LOT more time on the air (and less time here chatting on the Internet about how our bands should (or shouldn’t) be carved up) I’m afraid much of our spectrum is going to eventually be re-allocated to some other service based on our own “benign neglect”.
Sadly, when that happens, we’ll have nobody to blame but ourselves.
73,
Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KD2BD on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Keith,
I agree with your thoughts that our continued presence on HF could be further justified if we were all more active, and perhaps engaged in more activities that took advantage of the unique properties our HF allocations provide.
If all we have left to discuss on the air is audio quality, "EQ", microphones, and paddles, we're living on borrowed time. There HAS to be more to Amateur Radio than this.
The problem is, engaging in an intelligent QSO, roundtable, or ionospheric study on HF becomes difficult or impossible if a contest suddenly explodes on the band.
Contests take priority. Why should they?
I think if the HF bands were better utilized, contests would still impose their domineering effect on the bands, and might be even more of a disruptive force than they are today.
73, de John, KD2BD
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KB1SF on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
John, KD2BD writes: "The problem is, engaging in an intelligent QSO, roundtable, or ionospheric study on HF becomes difficult or impossible if a contest suddenly explodes on the band. Contests take priority. Why should they?"
To which the avid contester might reply, "Why should an "intelligent" QSO, roundtable or ionospheric study on HF" take priority either? And just what constitutes an "intelligent" QSO and who deems it such?
I think the answer to all of this is a matter of tolerance, understanding, and common sense. When each of us signed on to become Ham Radio operators, we all did so knowing that, unlike most other radio services, the Amateur Service isn't "channelized". And none of us have a guaranteed right to any particular frequency at any time, even for those whose VFOs have now apparently rusted in place on their favorite net frequency.
Scheduling an ionospheric study on HF for a contest weekend is asking for trouble. But, expecting a "clear frequency" for 10 KHz up and down the band for one's favorite "geezer" net on a contest weekend is an equally foolish (and all but hopeless) undertaking, too. Trying to enforce such impossible standards on each other while a contest is underway simply creates bad feelings all around.
Unfortunately, the FCC, with its stupid "incentive licensing" foolishness, which has carved up our bands into regulated license and mode-based sub bands (and sub-sub bands) has done nothing but contribute to the problem. That's because, in an effort to gather as many "checker-inners" as possible, most net operations (and contesters) are now crammed into the ever-more croweded General sections of the Phone and CW bands, leaving large portions of the rest of our bands horribly underused.
I still believe there's plenty of room on our bands for everyone and every activity, just as long as we don't all try to do so at the same time. Getting the FCC to stop regulating our bands by license class and operating mode (and letting we Hams decide how best to use our spectrum) would be a start. But, even then, common courtesy, patience and a little common sense will still be needed to make sure everyone's particular "passion" is accommodated.
73,
Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by WQ7O on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I am only an occasional contester but I believe contests help preserve our band privileges.
On many bands at many times there are no signals heard from end to end. Contests bring the bands alive a few weekends a year. I had several QSOs on 10 meters this weekend. More than in the last year. There is time and room on the bands for every ham activity.
As for ham hi fi, you don't do it for yourselves because you can't hear it yourself. You don't need to do it for me either. If I want to hear jock jive, I would tune in Howard Stern. I actually heard a guy using reverb. Have fun, but don't take two parking spaces with your Buick right in the DX window. QSY up the band, Thanks.
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W5ONV on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
In my 37 years of being a ham, I can proudly say that I have never be in a contest on the air and I hope and pray that I never will.73, Jim in Texas
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by N5XM on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
It's freedom of speech, period, folks, PC notwithstanding. If I don't feel like doing a contest, I turn the radio off and watch the History Channel, or practice my CW off the air. It ain't no thang. My health won't let me compete as I could 5 or 6 years ago, but I still have fun. What does bother me is that, for example, on the recent CQ WW CW weekend, there were a lot of great DX signals on, at the bottom of the Cycle, no less. I'm working VK and ZL on 90 watts on a lousy 40m vee, and it's pretty darn exciting. Then, come Monday, and the big vacuum has hit, and there are no signals to speak of anywhere. Why can't the bands be hopping regardless if there's a contest or not? These are the things I think about at 3 am.
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KC7QDO on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I don’t think there is anything wrong with contesting. It is just unfortunate that to many live for it and not being on the air during anytime other than a contest but at least they found their nitch.
When doing weak signal work on 2 meters and above that is the only way to get any contacts to see how far one can get with his/her Yagi array. And being able to do a fast call sign exchange helps with some of the short-lived 6-meter openings.
The only issues I have are the ones with the lack of knowledge and or caring about the suggested band plans. Just last weekend there was several CW operators calling CQ right on PSK 31 frequency on 20 meters. As a matter of fact it wiped out my receive and I had to find something else other than playing radio to do that day.
It appears that the contesters are getting meaner as the contests continue on. So it must mean during a contest make the contact and f*** the rest. At least that is the attitude I got last weekend with the not so friendly operators.
I am not a big on doing allot of SSB and I prefer PSK and dabble once in a while with RTTY.
Watch out the contesters are coming through a radio near you....lol
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W4VR on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
When I was in my teens and twenties I used to enjoy contesting and giving everybody 59 signal reports. But, as I grew older and wiser I starting thinking to myself, "if I continue to have QSO's and exchange 59 reports and goodbyes I'll be brain dead in no time." So, now I find a non-contest band or frequency and have normal QSOs....it's a lot more fun and stimulates the brain without spending all that money on 5 kilowatt amplifiers and 200-foot towers.
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting? No so!
|
|
|
by AI2IA on December 1, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Freedom of speech and contesting? No. You cannot draw any analogies here. We operate by license, that is, our behavior while on the air is governed by rules and regulations, and international treaties, and in theory by some gentlemen's agreements and common courtesy, not by any Contitutionally derived notions of free speech.
Under the system by which we are given the privilege to operate, it would seem to be perfectly consistent for contesters to exercise some degree of self-restraint. If you are going to use high power and aggressive competitive techniques to get those contest points, and so far I have not said or intended anything hostile to contesting, then you ought to show additional kindness and understanding of your fellow hams who go on the air with moderate or low power in a non-competitive manner to enjoy a QSO or partake in a net.
If you were driving a big ten-wheeler it would be best to be a knight of the road, rather than an air horn blasting tail gater. Contesting? By all means, but remember the little guys, too, they are your brothers on the air.
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by N0IU on December 2, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Tim WB8UHZ,
There is an EXTREMELY MAJOR FLAW in the conclusions you draw from statements. If you are going to use statistical analysis to make or prove your point, you should at least start of with good data, not numbers you pull out of the clear blue sky that have absolutely no basis in reality whatsoever. Even if your choice of analytical tools is correct and your logical is not fundamentally flawed, your conclusions will still be worthless if your raw data is bad.
You said, “How many hams would you say are in Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania, lets say 50,000 in each state.” Obviously you just made this number up. Since this whole freedom of speech thing involves the HF bands, we have to eliminate Technicians since they have no HF privileges and Novices because they don't have phone privileges on 40 meters. This leaves only General, Advanced and Extra Class license holders.
Here are the REAL numbers in the states you mention (according to Speroni as of 11/25):
Michigan
Extra – 3,471
Advanced – 2,266
General - 4,477
Total - 10,214
Ohio
Extra – 4,717
Advanced – 3,065
General – 6,809
Total – 14,591
Pennsylvania
Extra – 4,327
Advanced – 2,897
General – 5,725
Total – 12,949
Grand Total of HF qualified amateur radio licensees in these three states – 37,754. This is far less than the 50,000 in each state that you mentioned.
You went on to write, “Take just 500 of those 150,000...” 500 is roughly 1/3 of 1% of the150,000 who might want to make a 40 meter phone contact at any given time. Using your percentage, .33% of 37,754 is 124 amateur radio operators. A few years ago, the ARRL conducted a marketing survey and discovered that only about 50% of amateur license holders considered themselves to be active so if you believe that number, that only leaves 62 amateur radio licensees in Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania who might want to make a 40 meter phone contact at any given time. By my calculations, there is ample room for all of them with plenty of room to spare!
Looking at the total picture, there are 309,825 General, Advanced and Extra license holders in the U.S. .33% of that is 1,022. Half of that is 511. Only if all of them wanted to get on 40 meters at the same time would the band be over crowded.
Let's assume (a very dangerous thing to do) that you meant to say that there were a total of 50,000 amateur radio operators in each state. In reality, Michigan has 20,858, Ohio has 28,986 and Pennsylvania has 23,626. The total is 73,470. 1/3 of 1% of that is 242 and half of that is 121. This is still far less than the 500 who you claim are all clamoring to make a 40 meter phone contact all at the same time.
The bottom line here is don't use statistics unless you: a) use good data and b) know how to properly analyze that data and you failed on both of those counts. To use your own words, “This is really not acceptable.”
Scott N0IU
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by N0IU on December 2, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Part II
I decided to look up the actual numbers for a major SSB contest. Since the submission date for this year's November Sweepstakes is not until December 20, I decided to look at last year's results. Here is a breakdown of the logs that were submitted:
Michigan - 61
Ohio - 52
Pennsylvania (EPA + WPA) - 56
Total - 169
Using my ACCURATE numbers from above, 169 is .45% of the 37,754 HF qualified amateur radio licensees in these states and is .23% of the total number of licencees. These states fall right in line with the national average. There were 1,441 entires which accounts for .46% of the HF qualified amateur radio licensees in the U.S. and about .22% of the 655,988 total amateur radio licensees in the U.S.
2% may consider themselves to be contesters, but clearly not all of them participate in the same contest at the same time!
Scott N0IU
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by AI8P on December 2, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Well, isn't this a purdy little hornets nest that we went and kicked here.
Another aspect of contesting that seems to have been omitted is that it is a venue for sharpening, practicing, and evaluating radio skills. Reading a weak signal in a crowded band, analyzing the propagation and making a plan to maximize multipliers, maximizing an antenna system for a particular band - these are all real skills that you don't get just by reading a book. You need to experiment to attain these skills, then you need to practice them, then you need some real feedback (e.g. score) to determine if you are getting better or not.
Most of the real expert Emergency Ops Hams that I know are avid contesters. The skill sets are very similar. Checking into the Gall Bladder net might be fun, but it does nothing to build real radio skill. It does nothing to prepare expert operators for when they are needed for Emergency Communications.
And Ham Radio is essentially a democracy. If there are more people interested in contesting on a weekend than there are interested in Ragchewing, then that is what we should do. If you and 25,00 of your closest friends decide that you want to ragchew in the middle of a weekend contest, you will probably shut down the contest. The fact is that most of the Hams on the air on that contest weekend are more interested in contesting. they voted with their radios. You voted with your radio. You lost the election. Don't be a sore loser. There are other frequencies, including the WARC bands where the contesters will not be operating. And you can be proud that you gave up your "ownership" of your private frequency so that expert radio operators can be trained and can practice and refine their skills. Don't hate those who have different interests.
BTW, I have limited participation in contests - I like just being able to see the bands full of activity. I also like getting contacts towards WAS/DXCC, etc. I don't turn in a log though, so it isn't about "ego" or showing somebody up - I'm the only one who knows if I scored well in the contest. To quote Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"
AI8P
|
| |
|
Contesting and Ragchewing belong together.
|
|
|
by AI2IA on December 2, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"And Ham Radio is essentially a democracy" FALSE IDEA
Ham Radio is a privileged activity limited by licensing, controlled by regulation, rules, and treaties, and enforced by authorities.
One other point, democracy, where it may exist, protects the minority from the tyranny of the majority. Sheer numbers determining what is to be done is know an "mob rule."
Reasonable hams will coexist on the bands. Rabble will squabble and fight. Must we be reduced to that? Refuse to participate in that kind of nonsense.
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KG6QHP on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Gentlemen,
I can tolerate contests and contesters. The problem is that they can't tolerate ragchewing during contests.
Here is the litmus test. Ask any contester what portion of the 20 meter band should be reserved for ragchewing during a contest. The number one answer is NONE.
They will say something like use the WARC bands. How about this? Use the warc bands for the contests....
and leave the other bands alone.
Jim
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
AB0WR Wrote:
"Extended audio bandwidth does NOT have to cause intermod products to be produced, either in-channel or adjacent-channel. It depends upon how the transmitter chain is setup. If done properly it can generate a very high intelligibility signal that greatly extends the ability to communicate in weak-signal conditions."
Ok, I am sorry, but my sides are killing me from laughing...
What you hear:
AB0WR: "KK7TV this is AB0WR, good afternoon Randy, you're signal is fine business today, the usual 40 over s9."
What you don't hear:
AB0WR: "VU7DL this is AB0WR running HiFi audio, can you hear me now?"
You guys crack me up!
David ~ KY1V
|
| |
|
Contesting -Too Many Contests
|
|
|
by N4CQR on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
North American Sprint--SSB
Minnesota QSO Party
Ten-Ten International Winter Phone QSO Party
XE International RTTY Contest
Delaware QSO Party
Vermont QSO Party
YL International QSO Party
QRP ARCI Winter Fireside SSB Sprint
Dead-Band Contest
FYBO (Freeze Your Butt Off) Winter QRP Field Day
Spartan Sprint-CW
Northern New York (NNY) QSO Party
North American Sprint--CW
CQ World Wide RTTY WPX Contest
New Hampshire QSO Party
Louisiana QSO Party
British Columbia QSO Challenge--CW/SSB/Digital
RSGB 1.8 MHz Contest--CW
Asia-Pacific Sprint--CW
FISTS CW Winter Sprint--CW
Dutch PACC Contest--CW/SSB
EU EME Contest--Digital
OMISS QSO Party--SSB
Classic Exchange--AM/SSB/CW
AM QSO Party
CQC Winter QSO Party
CQ WW 160 meter SSB Contest
UBA Contest--CW
REF French Contest--Phone
Mississippi QSO Party
North Carolina QSO Party--CW/Phone
High Speed CW Contest
North American QSO Party--RTTY
DARC 10-Meter Digital
Open Ukraine RTTY Championship
Spartan Sprint -- CW
RSGB CommonwealthContest -- CW
Wisconsin QSO Party
Oklahoma QSO Party
Idaho QSO Party
North American RTTY Sprint
EA PSK31 Contest
AGCW QRP Contest
Russian DX Contest
Virginia QSO Party
10-10 Mobile Contest
CLARA and Family HF Contest
9KCC Contest
BARTG Spring RTTY Contest
CQ WW WPX Contest--SSB
Spring QRP Homebrewer Sprint
VHF Spring Sprints
Missouri QSO Party
Low Power Spring Sprint
50th Annual QCWA Spring QSO Party
EA RTTY Contest
SP DX Contest
Kids Roundup
DX YL to North American YL Contest CW
Montana QSO Party
QRP ARCI Spring QSO Party
EU Spring Sprints
Japan International DX Contest
DX YL to North American YL Contest--Phone
YU DX Contest
Michigan QSO Party
Ontario QSO Party
TARA Skirmish -- Digital Prefix Contest
Holyland DX Contest -- CW/SSB
Lighthouse Spring Lites QSO Party
ES Open HF Championship
EU EME Contest
EU EME Contest -- CW/SSB
EU Spring Sprint SSB
EA QRP Contest
Florida QSO Party
Nebraska QSO Party
DXColombia International Contest
SP DX RTTY Contest
Helvetia Contest
Alabama QSO Party
2 GHz and Up World Wide Club Contest
North American Spring Meteor Scatter Rally
MARAC County Hunters Contest -- CW
10-10 International Spring Contest--CW/Digital
Microwave Spring Sprint
Indiana QSO Party
ARI International DX Contest
New England QSO Party
7th Area QSO Party
IPA Contest
EU EME Contest
Radio Club of America QSO Party
Mid-Atlantic QSO Party
CQ-M International DX Contest
FISTS Spring Sprint--CW
Alessandro Volta RTTY DX Contest
50 MHz Spring Sprint
40th Annual Baltic Contest
All America Contest -- CW,
EU PSK DX Contest
His Majesty King of Spain Contest -- CW
US Counties QSO Party -- SSB
CQ WW WPX Contest -- CW
QRP ARCI Hootowl Sprint -- CW
MI QRP Memorial Day CW Sprint
QRP TAC Sprint Contest -- CW
SEANET Contest -- CW/SSB/Digital
IARU Region 1 Field Day -- CW
Look Around In the Field Contest -- CW and SSB
ANARTS WW RTTY / Digital Contest
Asia-Pacific Sprint -- SSB
ARRL June VHF QSO Party
Portugal Day Contest--SSB
GACW WWSA CW DX Contest
West Virginia QSO Party -- CW/SSB
All-Asian DX Contest -- CW
SMIRK QSO Party -- CW/Phone
Quebec QSO Party
Summer Meteor Scatter Contest
Spanish Islands Contest
ARRL Field Day
His Majesty King of Spain Contest--SSB
QRP ARCI Milliwatt Field Day
Canada Day Contest
MI QRP Jul 4th CW Sprint
Venezuelan Independence Day Contest -- CW/SSB,
DL-DX-RTTY-Contest -- RTTY/PSK
DARC 10-Meter Digital "Corona" -- RTTY/AMTOR/PACTOR/PSK31/Clover
IARU HF World Championship
World Radiosport Team Championship
World Wide Major Six Club Contest -- CW/SSB
FISTS Summer Sprint -- CW
QRP ARCI Summer Homebrew Sprint -- CW
DominoEx Contest
North American RTTY QSO Party
CQ WW VHF Contest
CQC Great Colorado Gold Rush -- CW
Flight of the Bumblebees -- CW
RSGB Islands-On-The-Air Contest -- CW/SSB
ARRL UHF Contest
North American QSO Party -- CW
SARL HF DX Contest -- SSB
Ten-Ten International Summer Phone QSO Party
European HF Championship -- CW/SSB
TARA "Grid Dip" Contest -- PSK and RTTY
National Lighthouse-Lightship Weekend
Worked All Europe DX Contest -- CW,
Maryland-DC QSO Party
SWOT Hot-Rock Shootout
North American QSO Party -- SSB
SARTG WW RTTY Contest
New Jersey QSO Party
International Lighthouse and Lightship Weekend
Russian District Award Contest -- CW/SSB,
Silent Key Memorial Contest -- CW
Ohio QSO Party
Hawaii QSO Party
ALARA Contest
YO-DX Contest
SCC RTTY Championship
Keymen's Club of Japan Contest -- CW
SARL HF DX Contest -- CW
Summer VHF/UHF QSO Party
All-Asian DX Contest
IARU Region 1 Field Day
DARC 10-Meter Digital Contest
MI QRP Labor Day CW Sprint
Russian RTTY WW Contest
North American Sprint -- CW
YLRL Howdy Days -- CW/SSB
WAE DX Contest -- SSB
ARRL September VHF QSO Party
Second-Class Operators Club (SOC) Marathon Sprint -- CW
Tennessee QSO Party
G3ZQS Memorial Straight Key Contest -- CW
North American Sprint -- SSB
Washington State Salmon Run -- CW/SSB/Digital
Scandinavian Activity Contest -- CW
South Carolina QSO Party -- Phone/CW/Digital
QCWA Fall QSO Party -- Phone/CW/Digital
QRP Afield -- CW/Phone/Digital
Get Your Feet Wet Weekend -- CW
CQ Worldwide RTTY DX Contest
Scandinavian Activity Contest -- SSB
Texas QSO Party
Classic Exchange -- SSB
Arkansas QSO Party
TOEC WW Grid Contest -- CW
Fall QRP Homebrewer Sprint -- CW/PSK31
RSGB 21/28 MHz Contest -- SSB/CW
Classic Exchange -- CW,
Coast to Coast Contest -- CW
EU Autumn Sprint -- SSB
California QSO Party
Oceania DX Contest
YLRL Anniversary Party -- CW
PSK Rumble (The Fall Classic)
10-10 Day Sprint -- Phone/CW/Digital
Pennsylvania QSO Party
North American RTTY Sprint
YLRL Anniversary Party -- SSB
EU Autumn Sprint -- CW
Oceania DX Contest -- CW
FISTS Fall Sprint -- CW
Asia-Pacific Sprint -- CW
Bill Windle QSO Party -- CW
ALE (Automatic Link Establishment) On The Air Week
School Club Roundup
Illinois QSO Party
USI W/VE Islands QSO Party
QRP ARCI Fall QSO Party -- CW
Worked All Germany -- CW/SSB,
JARTS WW RTTY Contest
Delaware Valley VHF FM Simplex Contest
CQ World Wide DX Contest -- SSB
10-10 International CW/Digital Contest
ARRL November Sweepstakes -- CW
North American Collegiate ARC Championship -- CW
High Speed Club CW Contest
IPA Contest
Ukrainian DX Contest
DARC 10 Meter Digital "Corona"
Radio Club of America QSO Party -- SSB/AM
Japan International DX Contest -- Phone
Kentucky QSO Party
Worked All Europe DX Contest (WAEDC) -- RTTY
OK/OM DX Contest -- CW
CQ WE (Western Electric) -- CW/Phone/ Digital
ARRL November Sweepstakes
North American Collegiate ARC Championship -- Phone
LZ DX Contest -- CW/SSB
RSGB 1.8MHz Contest -- CW
CQ WW DX Contest -- CW
ARRL 160 Meter Contest -- CW
New Mexico QSO Party
TARA RTTY Mêlée
TOPS Activity Contest -- CW
ARRL 10 Meter Contest
28 MHz SWL Contest
Holiday Spirits Homebrew CW Sprint
Great Colorado Snowshoe Run -- CW
OK DX RTTY Contest
PSK31 Death Match
Russian 160 Meter Contest
Croatian CW Contest
Lighthouse Christmas Lights QSO Party
DARC Christmas Contest -- CW/SSB
ARRL Straight Key Night
RAC Winter Contest -- CW/Phone
Stew Perry Top Band Distance Challenge -- CW
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by AB0WR on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
AB0WR Wrote:
"Extended audio bandwidth does NOT have to cause intermod products to be produced, either in-channel or adjacent-channel. It depends upon how the transmitter chain is setup. If done properly it can generate a very high intelligibility signal that greatly extends the ability to communicate in weak-signal conditions."
Ok, I am sorry, but my sides are killing me from laughing...
What you hear:
AB0WR: "KK7TV this is AB0WR, good afternoon Randy, you're signal is fine business today, the usual 40 over s9."
What you don't hear:
AB0WR: "VU7DL this is AB0WR running HiFi audio, can you hear me now?"
You guys crack me up!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yeah, people tend to laugh at what they don't understand. It is a protective mechanism for the ignorant.
Go spend some money and buy a copy of Single-Sideband Systems and Circuits by Sabin and Schoenike, copyright around 1987. Then spend some time in actual study of the issue.
Go get the latest copy of design criteria issued by your nearest large city for fire annunciator requirements in large building and spend some time in actual study of the issue.
Go look at: http://www.meyersound.com/support/papers/speech/section2.htm
Here is a quote: "One of the most obvious aspects of sound system performance that affect intelligibility is frequency response. Severely band-limited systems deliver speech poorly. For instance, telephones are generally limited to a 2 kHz bandwidth, and this makes it hard to distinguish between “f” and “s” or “d” and “t” sounds.
High-quality speech systems need to cover the frequency range of about 80 Hz (for especially deep male voices) to about 10 kHz (for best reproduction of consonants, which are crucial to intelligibility)."
How's the bard put it? (paraphrase) There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
tim ab0wr
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by WB6MMJ on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
The problem I have with contesting is this: Have we all had a chance to vote on if we want each contest? Part of having our freedom is the privilege of voting. The ARRL is not a dictator and as Amateur radio operators we should not have to PAY the ARRL to have a vote in our hobby. Contests have been forced on us by the ARRL without our having a say in it. It`s been a long time practice for the ARRL to tell us what is going to happen or not. I have watched the ARRL sell amateur radios soul for numbers. Contests are part of just that. Have contests to show how the bands are full of amateurs so we don`t loose them. Make it easier to get a license so we get more amateurs. Maybe it`s time to end this dictatorship and find a group who listens to ALL of us, not just it`s paying members. We are all equal.
Randy/WB6MMJ
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
AB0WR wrote:
"Yeah, people tend to laugh at what they don't understand. It is a protective mechanism for the ignorant."
Tim, the only thing ignorant is the idea of you expecting anyone to believe that you and your SSB HiFi friends are using the technology for weak signal contacts.
Everyone knows the main goal is so you can hear your own voice played back by your buddies voice recorder.
Get a life and quit trying to convince the rest of us that ham radio needs wide band SSB for DX'ing!
David ~ KY1V
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KD2BD on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Scott, N0IU wrote:
>
> 2% may consider themselves to be contesters, but clearly not
> all of them participate in the same contest at the same time!
>
If this assessment is true, then the fact that the actions of such a small minority can render our HF bands practically useless during a contest simply underscores the premise that contest activity presents a very disruptive force on the majority of the population.
Those who become disenfranchised over this activity are likely to become disinterested in HF, and perhaps even Amateur Radio in general.
Contesting is a game. I'd like to think that Amateur Radio has far more to offer for its spectrum allocations than simply being a means through which one can get his ego stroked at the expense of others.
When a person engages in an activity, gets hooked on the rush, sacrifices money, time, and some of the more important things in life hoping the next rush will be even better than the last, and the cycle repeats, contest after contest, year after year, there's a problem.
73, de John, KD2BD
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
WB6MMJ Wrote:
"Have we all had a chance to vote on if we want each contest?"
This is absurd. Have we all voted whether or not we want SSTV or SSB HiFi? Of course not, it sounds ludicrous doesn't it?
Why don't you nut cases quit trying to dictate what others can do. If you don't like contests, find another hobby! Contesting has been around longer than most of you have been licensed!
I don't like SSTV, but I don't whine about it on eHam! Think about how silly it is to send postcard photos back and forth over the air, when you can send them over the Internet in seconds? Sounds silly doesn't it? Well, obviously not to those that do it, and I respect their right to do it.
So repect the contesters right to contest. Learn CW and operate in those subbands on SSB contest weekends, do something, but quit complaining!
David ~ KY1V
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KD2BD Wrote:
"When a person engages in an activity, gets hooked on the rush, sacrifices money, time, and some of the more important things in life hoping the next rush will be even better than the last, and the cycle repeats, contest after contest, year after year, there's a problem."
Thank you Dr. John for your expert evaluation. I will schedule an appointment with my mental health center at once.
By the way, should I also schedule an appointment for the guy that "becomes disenfranchised over this activity <and is> likely to become disinterested in HF, and perhaps even Amateur Radio in general", since he obviously can't cope with not having his SSB channel used by someone else for another purpose?
You guys are plain silly!
David ~ KY1V
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by WB6MMJ on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I have been licensed for over 30 years now. I use to do the contest thing about a year after I got my General license. I stayed on CW when I got my General License for about a year. I found contesting a waste of time and electricity. There was nothing like being even more tired on Monday than you were on Friday after a long week of work. I heard CW for about three days after field day was over. I finally asked myself, "why am I doing this to myself"? It was a good question. Maybe I needed something to do outside like maybe cleaning up the yard? Washing the car? Taking a hike in the mountains? Taking a weekend vacation? Why was I sitting in a chair all weekend not getting enough sleep and calling CQ Contest? They say that 80% of us are dysfunctional. Makes sense to me. I gave up the contesting and got a life. It was worth it too. It sure saved me allot of money too. Those electric bills will kill you. I have the right to my opinion. Another person has the right to their opinion. He or she may not agree with what I have to say and that is a good thing. That is what makes our country the best in the world to live in. But you also need to respect each other at the same time.
It is time to take a good look at the ARRL though. We don`t need people like them telling, forcing, us into things we don`t want.
Randy/WB6MMJ
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KC7QDO on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
This comment is about the ARRL: Maybe it`s time to end this dictatorship and find a group who listens to ALL of us, not just
it`s paying members. We are all equal.
Here is a suggestion for you. Join the ARRL so that you have the club rights so they will entertain your idea. But what as suggested above would be the same making insurance companies cover non policy holders when then they have a Auto accident.
If you want to come up with a new group to specialize in whatever aspect of radio; that you foot the bill of while listening to millions of hams for free.
The ARRL tries but they can’t manage to make every ham happy because their members are whom they are supposed to take care of and that is what I pay them to do.
You know you get a neat magazine with membership. That alone is worth it and I suppose you want QST for free as well.
You all have fun on the new voice portions on HF.
Just remember that the contesters are coming soon to a radio near you………lol
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by WB6MMJ on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I think you missed the point of my statements. I refuse to have to PAY to have a voice. I already have a voice. The ARRL charges it`s members to have a voice.
That is wrong. What the insurance companys do has nothing to do with freedom of speach. Your vote does though.
Randy/WB6MMJ
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by N2WEC on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Contesting is for idiots who have nothing better to say than "yer 5-9" even if he/she has to ask 8 times to get the call right.
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
N2WEC Wrote:
"Contesting is for idiots who have nothing better to say than "yer 5-9" even if he/she has to ask 8 times to get the call right"
N2WEC, the guy that also wrote:
"I did how ever start a pile-up on UO-14 from FN24. Too many to keep control to give the grid. 1 lone person got it."
http://www.eham.net/data/profile/n2wec/photo.jpeg
So what is it Bill? Giving out a 59 signal report is for idiots but giving out a grid square is for geniuses like you?
Stick with deer rescues sir, you aren't good at trashing people without making yourself look like a fool!
David ~ KY1V
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KB1SF on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
N2WEC wrote: "Contesting is for idiots who have nothing better to say than "yer 5-9" even if he/she has to ask 8 times to get the call right."
Bill, the "Amateur Oxymoron" discussion was a few threads back. ;-)
73,
Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
It always makes me chuckle when "average people" (yeah look at their profiles) bash contesters, calling us morons, idiots and other reprehensible names.
Let's take a very tiny cross section of some of the major contesters I know personally...
K3LR - V.P Major Cellular Company
K1LZ - CEO Robot Manufacturing Co and owner Acom Int'l
PY5EG - CEO Brazilian Power & Gas Company
KC1XX - CEO Tower Company
K3LP - CEO of ISO 9000 Consulting Firm
Myself KY1V - CTO Web Hosting Company
The list goes on and on.
You can "pretend" contesters are idiots all you want, but the fact is, most of the major contesters are more successful and brighter than you (the whiners) will ever be.
Most of you whine and complain because you are jealous. Many of you have no control over your own lives and you get angry because during a major contest you have no control over that precious little "channel" upon which your VFO is stuck! Yes, the one little thing in your life upon which you usually have control is taken away from you for a whole weekend!
Most contesters I know show you whiners more respect than you deserve.
If you really want respect from contesters, earn it by showing respect first. Stop calling them idiots and be courteous to them. Nothing more than you expect for yourself.
I'll show you respect on the air, but I don't have to let your compalining here go unanswered!
David ~ KY1V
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by AB0WR on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
AB0WR wrote:
"Yeah, people tend to laugh at what they don't understand. It is a protective mechanism for the ignorant."
Tim, the only thing ignorant is the idea of you expecting anyone to believe that you and your SSB HiFi friends are using the technology for weak signal contacts.
Everyone knows the main goal is so you can hear your own voice played back by your buddies voice recorder.
Get a life and quit trying to convince the rest of us that ham radio needs wide band SSB for DX'ing!
David ~ KY1V
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Just keep talking. Everyone that knows me knows I have no "HiFi" buddies that I talk with. And my experiments are not for weak-signal DX contacts either.
The ARRL did a study not too many years ago concerning the accuracy of message traffic passed over CW and phone. The accuracy was atrocious. That was one impetus for my studies in this area. The other has been the loss of my high frequency hearing capability as I get older.
If you would do even a minimal google search on the subject of high intelligibility speech you would be amazed at the research that has been done in the past decade. For instance, the consonants th and dh have their major energy onsets in the frequency domain above 6khz. These consonants many times are confused with the f consonant unless higher audio frequencies are utilized to provide audible clues.
It is clear from the literature that significant improvements in accuracy during message traffic handling could be accomplished by extending audio bandwidths to as little as 3.5khz although even higher bandwidths would be better.
This bandwidth is not needed during general operation. Context clues during regular conversation can typically provide sufficient hints to fill in missed phonemes or even words.
I've not even begun to address the issues of listener fatigue and the accumlative effects it can have on accuracy. Let it suffice that extended bandwidths can help in this area also.
This is a huge, untapped experimentation area that amateur radio has ignored for the past decade. I hear how amateur radio is becoming less technical because it is too hard to work with SMT parts and etc. and how the industry has left us behind. Yet here is an area that requires little in complex technology to experiment with but which it seems many hams just want to pooh-pooh and ignore -- your attitude is a prime example.
The problem with ham radio today is not that the industry has left us behind - it is the Luddite corp that has joined ham radio in the past twenty years through the ever-decreasing technical levels of the licensing tests. Rather than studying and being able to actually address a technical issue it is easier to just deride it and laugh at it. As I said -- the protective mechanism of the ignorant.
tim ab0wr
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 3, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
You know Tim (AB0WR), if you would take the KY1V is Ignorant sign from in front of your face, you may be able to see better.
First, I never discounted your claim about more audio bandwidth providing better intelligibility or less fatigue. As a long time Telecom engineer, I clearly understand the impact of audio bandwidth, particularly with regards to A/D and D/A conversions.
I merely made a joke at your sales approach of claiming HiFi SSB will somehow be better for weak signal work, particularly considing the fact that most "audiophiles" care little about weak signals.
Let's examine a few key points from your last post:
"If you would do even a minimal google search on the subject of high intelligibility speech you would be amazed at the research that has been done in the past decade."
I am not amazed. Researched, learned, not interested. NExt subject? (it's ok if you are, have fun with it. I really don't mind)
"It is clear from the literature that significant improvements in accuracy during message traffic handling could be accomplished by extending audio bandwidths to as little as 3.5khz although even higher bandwidths would be better."
Perhaps, but how often is this really needed and is it worth using more bandwidth on crowded bands? I have no problem with those experimenting with HiFi SSB, just let's not have everyone doing it at once on 20 meters? How's that?
"This bandwidth is not needed during general operation."
Amen brother! Amen!
"Context clues during regular conversation can typically provide sufficient hints to fill in missed phonemes or even words."
How often are you really missing words during your rag chews? No fair, you can't count when the dog is barking, phone is ringing, wife is calling you or kids are screaming!
"I've not even begun to address the issues of listener fatigue and the accumlative effects it can have on accuracy. Let it suffice that extended bandwidths can help in this area also."
Now you are stretching things a bit. If I am that fatigued by listening to my buddy on the air, I should go to bed. Now, during contests, this would be handy, but do you really want all contesters operaing HiFi SSB. That would be a hoot!
"This is a huge, untapped experimentation area that amateur radio has ignored for the past decade. I hear how amateur radio is becoming less technical because it is too hard to work with SMT parts and etc. and how the industry has left us behind. Yet here is an area that requires little in complex technology to experiment with but which it seems many hams just want to pooh-pooh and ignore -- your attitude is a prime example."
Well, I am all for experimentation in amatuer radio. Please have fun, but you have no idea about my attitude and if you judge one comment made to poke fun, you are eating too many sour grapes!
"The problem with ham radio today is not that the industry has left us behind..."
I disagree, the problem with amateur radio today is that the masses are getting in without effort or cost and they are all trying to tell everyone else how amateur radio should be!
"As I said -- the protective mechanism of the ignorant."
With respect to my last statement, we are now in agreement!
David ~ KY1V
Contester, DX'er, experimenter, and above all else, respectful to all so long as they show respect in return!
Peace!
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by WA3KYY on December 4, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KG6QHP wrote:
"Here is the litmus test. Ask any contester what portion of the 20 meter band should be reserved for ragchewing during a contest. The number one answer is NONE."
Jim,
The main reason for that is because the ragchewers, nets and other non-contest operators will refuse to move into the reserved zone. This question has been asked and the answer is always NO WAY! Where would you put the exclusion zone to make it fair to all? About the only place I can think of is 25KHz or so that overlaps the junction of the Advance/General segments. But if those not particpating refuse to move into the reserved segment, what is the point of having one?
Also, by IARU agreement, the WARC bands were specifically excluded from contesting, primarily because they are not amateur exclusive or amateur primary allocations.
A final question: what would you do if one Saturday morning you turned on your radio to find 20M SSB wall-to-wall with non-contest activity and you could not find a place to operate your preferred activity?
73,
Mike WA3KYY
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on December 4, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Stick with deer rescues sir, you aren't good at trashing people without making yourself look like a fool!"
"You know Tim (AB0WR), if you would take the KY1V is Ignorant sign from in front of your face, you may be able to see better."
"So what is it Bill? Giving out a 59 signal report is for idiots but giving out a grid square is for geniuses like you?"
"Thank you Dr. John for your expert evaluation. I will schedule an appointment with my mental health center at once."
"Why don't you nut cases quit trying to dictate what others can do. If you don't like contests, find another hobby!"
"Contester, DX'er, experimenter, and above all else, respectful to all so long as they show respect in return!
Peace!"
-------------
Your comments are obviously a shining example of how one demonstrates "respect" toward contester, DX'er, experimenters and others."
Peace!
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 4, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KC8VWM Wrote:
"Your comments are obviously a shining example of how one demonstrates "respect" toward contester, DX'er, experimenters and others."
Obviously, you have missed the point.
David ~ KY1V
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by AB0WR on December 4, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
ky1v: "You know Tim (AB0WR), if you would take the KY1V is Ignorant sign
ky1v: from in front of your face, you may be able to see better."
ky1v:"I merely made a joke at your sales approach of claiming HiFi SSB
ky1v:will somehow be better for weak signal work, particularly considing the
ky1v:fact that most "audiophiles" care little about weak signals."
Heal thyself, physician. I never made such a claim. I think you have your
own sign up in front of your face.
ab0wr:"It is clear from the literature that significant improvements in
ab0wr:accuracy during message traffic handling could be accomplished by
ab0wr:extending audio bandwidths to as little as 3.5khz although even higher
ab0wr:bandwidths would be better."
ky1v:"Perhaps, but how often is this really needed and is it worth using
ky1v:more bandwidth on crowded bands? I have no problem with those
ky1v:experimenting with HiFi SSB, just let's not have everyone doing it
ky1v:at once on 20 meters? How's that? "
I told you when it is needed. And HiFi SSB is NOT all over 20m. Move your
sign from in front of your face.
ab0wr:""Context clues during regular conversation can typically provide
ab0wr:sufficient hints to fill in missed phonemes or even words."
ky1v:"How often are you really missing words during your rag chews? No fair,
ky1v:you can't count when the dog is barking, phone is ringing, wife is
ky1v:calling you or kids are screaming! "
I told you when this would be helpful. I even said "This bandwidth is not
needed during general operation." Now you are back asking why I would need
this for rag chews? Move your sign from in front of your face.
ky1v:"Now you are stretching things a bit. If I am that fatigued by
ky1v:listening to my buddy on the air, I should go to bed. Now, during
ky1v:contests, this would be handy, but do you really want all
ky1v:contesters operaing HiFi SSB. That would be a hoot! "
I told you when it is needed. Now you are making up straw men to argue
with. Move your sign from in front of your face.
ky1v:"Contester, DX'er, experimenter, and above all else, respectful
ky1v:to all so long as they show respect in return! "
Really? Making fun of what people say is being respectful? Move your
sign from in front of your face.
tim ab0wr
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on December 4, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Really? Making fun of what people say is being respectful? Move your sign from in front of your face.
tim ab0wr
-----------
...or as Jeff would say, "Here's your sign?"
:) 73
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 4, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
You are correct Timmy...you told us it is useful for "weak Signal" communications!
I stand by my statement that you and your HiFi guys don't use it for weak signal work...instead you use it for rag chewing.
You can try to turn this into a "KY1V is ignornat" rant all you want, but the fact remains that the typical use of HiFi SSB is rag chewing, not weak signal communications, which renders your entire post as BS and commands no respect, so yes, I poked fun at you!
As far as your concerned Charles, everyone on eHam knows your BS and you command no respect, so carry on clown!
David ~ KY1V
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 4, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
One more thing Timmy...
Let's make sure everyone recalls clearly the sequence of events...
AB0WR Wrote:
"Extended audio bandwidth does NOT have to cause intermod products to be produced, either in-channel or adjacent-channel. It depends upon how the transmitter chain is setup. If done properly it can generate a very high intelligibility signal that greatly extends the ability to communicate in weak-signal conditions."
KY1V Poker fun at the statement, specifically at "...greatly extends the ability to communicate in weak-signal conditions"
AB0WR Wrote:
"Yeah, people tend to laugh at what they don't understand. It is a protective mechanism for the ignorant."
Now, just so we are all clear, I poked fun at the notion of SSB Hifi being "typically used" for weak signal communications. You in turn implied my poking fun was because I am ignorant!
And now you want respect?
LMAO
David ~ KY1V
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on December 4, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
As far as your concerned Charles, everyone on eHam knows your BS and you command no respect, so carry on clown!
David ~ KY1V
----------------
I certainly have nothing to prove nor do I wish to command anything from anyone. It's obviously apparent by that statement, your mentality is showing.
I have credentials that speak for itself. You on the other hand seem to keep blathering on and on fanning a keyboard slinging your BS at everyone on Eham for no apparent reason other than to personally entertain yourself at their expense.
Don't ask me for proof. Only a fool would need proof. You can read all the comments you made all by yourself.
As a successful business owner of an international company to another business owner who is apparently just an internet web consultant who knows absolutely nothing about running a sucessful business, I urge you to pick up a few Dale Carnegie courses in communication if your overall intention is to "win friends and influence people" - a subject you have clearly demonstrated to know absolutely nothing about.
Quite frankly, I am perplexed how you can successfully operate a business with that attitude demonstrated toward other people?
...If your gonna give it "Davie", you better be fully prepared to take it. That's how it works.
Now I would suggest you grow up and start acting like a general human being and be respectful toward your fellow hams.
Is that condescending, arrogant and pompous enough for you "Davie"? How does it feel to be on the other side of the fence for a change...Clown?
Peace out.
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by AB0WR on December 4, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
ky1v:You are correct Timmy...you told us it is useful
ky1v:for "weak Signal" communications!
Here is what I actually said:
ab0wr:Extended audio bandwidth does NOT have to cause
ab0wr:intermod products to be produced, either in-
ab0wr:channel or adjacent-channel. It depends upon
ab0wr:how the transmitter chain is setup. If done
ab0wr:properly it can generate a very high
ab0wr:intelligibility signal that greatly extends the
ab0wr:ability to communicate in weak-signal
ab0wr:conditions.
And here is another of your strawmen:
ky1v:I stand by my statement that you and your HiFi
ky1v: guys don't use it for weak signal
kyqv:work...instead you use it for rag chewing.
I told you already that I am not a member of any HiFi group of "guys". And I didn't claim that HiFi SSB is used for weak signal work. I said extended audio bandwidths can generate a very high intelligibility signal useful during weak signal work.
Let's look at your next claim:
ky1v:You can try to turn this into a "KY1V is
ky1v:ignornat" rant all you want, but the fact
ky1v:remains that the typical use of HiFi SSB is rag
ky1v:chewing, not weak signal communications, which
ky1v:renders your entire post as BS and commands no
ky1v:respect, so yes, I poked fun at you!
My post was not BS. I gave you several legimate references in the literature for you to research. You apparently didn't bother and just claimed that you are "not interested" in it -- as if that is some kind of refutation. Just because you are "not interested" in the subject doesn't make the subject into BS -- no matter how highly you rate your own views.
ky1v:Now, just so we are all clear, I poked fun at
ky1v:the notion of SSB Hifi being "typically used"
ky1v:for weak signal communications. You in turn
ky1v:implied my poking fun was because I am ignorant!
Well, let's just make sure everyone knows what you posted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
AB0WR Wrote:
"Extended audio bandwidth does NOT have to cause intermod products to be produced, either in-channel or adjacent-channel. It depends upon how the transmitter chain is setup. If done properly it can generate a very high intelligibility signal that greatly extends the ability to communicate in weak-signal conditions."
Ok, I am sorry, but my sides are killing me from laughing...
What you hear:
AB0WR: "KK7TV this is AB0WR, good afternoon Randy, you're signal is fine business today, the usual 40 over s9."
What you don't hear:
AB0WR: "VU7DL this is AB0WR running HiFi audio, can you hear me now?"
You guys crack me up!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The problem here is that I said not one word about SSB HiFi being "typically used" for weak signal communications. That means you made up a strawman out of whole cloth to poke fun at and when called on it you found yourself twisting in the wind. You still are.
ky1v:And now you want respect?
Nope. Never asked for any. You are the only one that mentioned respect. You claim you always give people respect. I think the readers can decide if that claim is true or not.
tim ab0wr
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 5, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KC8VWM Wrote:
"As a successful business owner of an international company to another business owner who is apparently just an internet web consultant who knows absolutely nothing about running a sucessful business,..."
Shall we compare?
You really do amuse me Chuck!
Tim, I poked fun at a specific comment regarding the a particular use for "extended audio", I never discredited your entire statement. How come you can't see the difference? Since when is poking fun synonymous with disrespect? Implying someone is ignorant, on the other hand, is disrespectful!
You two really should get a thesaurus for Xmas! Santa?
David ~ KY1V
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 5, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Well, Chuck, after 10 minutes of Internet research, I have located your house on Google Earth, run a property value report, including the recent sale of your neighbors house at 1434 Tenagra Way and a background check on you...wow.
International business must be booming Chuck! Congratulations!
Shall I post the results?
David ~ KY1V
PS: nice cookie cutter hood Chuck. Can you touch your neighbors window?
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on December 5, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
You amuse me David as you mistakenly assume I own 1 property. What does it matter if I do or not?
Do you really value people's expressed opinions based on their net property worth? You are really quite transparent and I think everyone can see in plain view what you are really all about when you make such condescending statements.
I don't need to convince anyone of these facts, your quite good at doing that task all on your own.
In case you haven't figured it out yet, you cannot "command" respect from anyone. Respect is both mutual and it is something that is earned.
You did hear that mentioned somewhere in the book of life before haven't you?
Again, you only seem to only reveal your true self in your comments.
For what it's worth, I found your self absorbed website. Oh, I suppose I could stoop down to your level and publish every bit of dirt I scrape up on you from Google, but I have decided that I am way above and beyond all that small minded mentality unlike your small self.
I think the facts have presented them self clearly don't you?
Perhaps later you can go back and do some more "goggling" if your so inclined. You might find out things like how I won awards, how I became the chairperson for the business advisory council for the state of Ohio, and maybe you might even find out that I was presented with the business's man of the year award and was published in the Wall Street Journal?
I know you were presented with an Amateur of the Year award a few years back, but for the life of me I can't figure out why. It certainly isn't because you know how to talk or communicate to people nor is it because you have "commanded" anyone's respect. That would be just plain fallacy.
I have summed it up as your basically another one of those people that thinks he's all that when your really not anything at all. Your humanity expressed toward other individuals is really lacking David and trust me it shows. You need to give hams regardless of thier social or personal financial staus, more due credit as they aren't as stupid as you make them out to be. Just because some hams are poor or are financially challenged and because they don't live in a large home like you do (Don't worry, I did the online tour:) doesn't make them any less than of an individual than you are.
The fact is, most people are just not telling you anything. I am getting right to the heart of the matter and am suspecting your not liking it very much either are you?
Hey, look on the bright side. At least there is no need to thank me for having the guts to speak up and tell you what most people are "thinking" when they see your condescending tone and lack of respect exhibited toward other hams in your posts.
Perhaps, I can work with you in correcting a few personal communication issues you seem to be having right now and then we might even get along sometime.
So until that happens my friend. Happy goggling and I will pray for you.
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W9WHE-II on December 5, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KC8VWM writes:
"Again, you only seem to only reveal your true self in your comments".
Well, Charles, what do YOUR comments about shoving a tube into another ham say about YOU?
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 5, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Let's see...the pot calling the kettle black...
Condescending remarks made by Chuck:
"...or as Jeff would say, "Here's your sign?"
"It's obviously apparent by that statement, your mentality is showing"
"As a successful business owner of an international company to another business owner who is apparently just an internet web consultant who knows absolutely nothing about running a sucessful business"
"I urge you to pick up a few Dale Carnegie courses in communication if your overall intention is to "win friends and influence people" - a subject you have clearly demonstrated to know absolutely nothing about."
"Now I would suggest you grow up and start acting like a general human..."
"...when your really not anything at all."
"Your humanity expressed toward other individuals is really lacking David and trust me it shows"
So, let's count, 7 condescending remarks about me, and there were more, I just posted the most obvious ones.
Now, remarks from me to you:
"As far as your concerned Charles, everyone on eHam knows your BS and you command no respect, so carry on clown!"
Hmmmm, just one. The rest are mere facts.
You sure have done a great job showing the world of eHam what kind of person I am. Bravo Chuck, Bravo!
NExt time you need to boost your ego by bragging about your accomplishments while putting someone else down, do your research!
Nothing you say holds any weight at all! Like I said in my original post to you, everyone on eHam is aware of your BS!
Now, let me get back to more important things, like "learning" how to run a successful internation business.
David ~ KY1V
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on December 5, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
So, let's count, 7 condescending remarks about me, and there were more, I just posted the most obvious ones.
-------
Quoted just as they were intended. Thank you.
"If we learn not humility, we learn nothing."
- John Jewel
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 5, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I wonder if there is any way to have you deported...
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 5, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I thought I might end things on a lighter note...
http://www.ky1v.com/arguing.jpg
David ~ KY1V
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by AB0WR on December 6, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
ky1v:Tim, I poked fun at a specific comment regarding
ky1v:the a particular use for "extended audio", I
ky1v:never discredited your entire statement. How
ky1v:come you can't see the difference? Since when is
ky1v:poking fun synonymous with disrespect? Implying
ky1v:someone is ignorant, on the other hand, is
ky1v:disrespectful!
ky1v:You two really should get a thesaurus for Xmas!
ky1v:Santa?
You didn't poke fun at my statement. You made up strawman, attributed it to me, and then poked fun at *it*. *THAT* is the difference. And you seem to be totally unable to tell the difference. The study of extended audio bandwidths on the intelligibility of speech in a noisy environment has nothing to do with your so-called "HiFi" signals. Yet you saw fit to consider derision of a straw man about HiFi attributed to someone else as somehow adding to the conversation.
You remind me of the BMOC who expects everyone to laugh at their jokes no matter how crass, rude, spiteful, or even vindictive they are. Thus "poking fun" is --not-- disrespectful while merely making a statement that derision is the last refuge of the ignorant --is-- being disrepectful. Any implication you took from that statement reveals more about you than anything I could possibly say.
BTW, you should get a dictionary of Argumentative Falliacies sometime and study it closely. From Dysphemism, to Platitude, to Ad Vericundium, to Poisoning the Well, to Straw Man you've used them all.
tim ab0wr
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 6, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Tim,
After that post, I am glad we don't know each other. You seem to be a bitter person and you are definitely way to uptight for my taste.
Perhaps all your study of "straw men, dysphemism, platitude, and ad vericundium" has warped any sense of humour you may once have had.
While you are at liberty to interpret my comment ay way you wish, you cannot possibly know what I was thinking when I wrote it, and I can assure you it was only meant to poke fun at the "idea" that "the majority" of HiFi SSB guys use HiFi SSB for weak signal work, nothing more, nothing less.
It was a joke. It was intended to make people laugh.
There are no straw men in your closet, no boogy man out to get you Tim. Relax and enjoy life. It's too short to be uptight all the time!
David ~ KY1V
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W9WHE-II on December 6, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"So, let's count, 7 condescending remarks about me.....".
Oh heck. What is the big deal?
Ever count the condescending, vicious personal attacks launched by K1OU? He can do that in a single day! Do what I do. Just consider the source and let the trash remarks roll off your back!
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by AB0WR on December 6, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
After that post, I am glad we don't know each other. You seem to be a bitter person and you are definitely way to uptight for my taste.
Perhaps all your study of "straw men, dysphemism, platitude, and ad vericundium" has warped any sense of humour you may once have had.
While you are at liberty to interpret my comment ay way you wish, you cannot possibly know what I was thinking when I wrote it, and I can assure you it was only meant to poke fun at the "idea" that "the majority" of HiFi SSB guys use HiFi SSB for weak signal work, nothing more, nothing less.
It was a joke. It was intended to make people laugh.
There are no straw men in your closet, no boogy man out to get you Tim. Relax and enjoy life. It's too short to be uptight all the time!
David ~ KY1V
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Let's see:
you don't know me and I don't know you
so I can't possibly know what you were thinking when you wrote your post
BUT.........
You can somehow know that I am a bitter person, way too uptight, have a warped sense of humor, and think boogy men are out to get me.
As I said in an earlier post: Take the sign from in front of your own face.
tim ab0wr
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by K1OU on December 6, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Per Oliver Wendell Blockhead (AKA W9WHE)...
"So, let's count, 7 condescending remarks about me.....".
Oh heck. What is the big deal?
Ever count the condescending, vicious personal attacks launched by K1OU? He can do that in a single day! Do what I do. Just consider the source and let the trash remarks roll off your back!"
You are obviously doing just that by going out of your way to mention me. How does it feel to be my dog?
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 6, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
For someone who does so much reading, you seem to be failing to read my posts correctly.
You wrote:
"You can somehow know that I am a bitter person, way too uptight, have a warped sense of humor, and think boogy men are out to get me."
I stated...
way too uptight ... "for my taste".
"Perhaps has" ... a warped your sense of humour.
"No" ... boogy men are out to get you.
Not only do you know lots of big words, you seem to know how to use them to manipulate other peoples words as well!
You win. Game over. Bravo Tim.
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on December 6, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
For someone who does so much reading, you seem to be failing to read my posts correctly.
-OR-
Perhaps, someone is failing to "communicate" themselves correctly.
Remember:
"Win friends and influence people."
73
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on December 6, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
David, yesterday you wished I was deported. Today, I wish you and your family a good holiday season.
My Best.
Charles - KC8VWM
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KY1V on December 6, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Thank you Chuck.
Merry Xmas to you and yours also!
David ~ KY1V
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W9WHE-II on December 7, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
See...most hams know when to pull back and be civil gentlemen. Bravo!
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by K1OU on December 7, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Per W9WHE,
"See...most hams know when to pull back and be civil gentlemen. Bravo!"
Are you taking notes, Jonathan?
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by W9WHE-II on December 7, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Anyone ever notice that substantially ALL of jerry's voluminious posts are directed to me, personally?
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by K1OU on December 7, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Dave Sumner thinks the same of you, Jonathan!
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KE4DYG on December 9, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I think the contesters should check on the freqs that they operate when working split. I here this all the time on 40 meters when there are nets out there people just do not have to operate on top of nets. I think people need to listen before they operate. TKS Robert
|
| |
|
RE: How does contesting open up a band?
|
|
|
by W7WHY on December 9, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"How does a contest improve atmospheric conditions? Does one type of contest increase or improve propagation in some way over the other contests? Someone explain to me how a contest can "open a band".
I guess you didn't listen to 10 meters this weekend. There wasn't a soul on there all week and this weekend there were hundreds of stations on and workable. 73
Tom W7WHY
|
| |
|
RE: How does contesting open up a band?
|
|
|
by WV4I on December 11, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Amazing...you folks have WAY too much time on your hands...WV4I....
|
| |
|
RE: Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by KC5NYJ on December 16, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
personally, I find it amusing that some "amateur" radio operators seem hell-bent on creating commercial broadcast quality audio in an amateur spectrum, using technically inferior bandwidth and restrictions that make that goal nearly impossible without breaking their own coveted rules. My take is that if they want ot play "real radio", then get a job as a professional radio engineer.
|
| |
|
Freedom Of Speech & Contesting
|
|
|
by K3ROJ on December 17, 2006
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Freedom of speech is our right to say anything we want and to anyone we want. Now that Amateur Radio is losing morse code, you will see many people dropping out of Amateur radio including myself (GMRS radios work well for communicating). All those years I supported the ARRL and now they let us down. Without morse code "CW" will will go the same route as our schools, by allowing people to pass the exams yet not able to read or write.
|
| |
|
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to discussions on this article.
Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help
Related News & Articles
Give Morse Code a Try!
Two-Meter Protocol
When is Bad Radio Operating Style, Jamming?
A Nice Touch
Tips On Working 60 Meters
Other Contesting Articles
How to Win an ARRL 160m Contest for WTX
Announcing the Contest Compendium
Digital Modes for Field Day
A Sleep Strategy for DX Contesting
GM0B -- CQ WW SSB 2008
|
