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Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
Robert Harper (AF0H)
on
November 24, 2006
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Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
For quite some time I've been in need a quick, simple, and convenient way to attach radials to my homebrew 20-meter vertical. Having tried many common methods, I knew there had to be an easier (and more permanent) way. I finally came up with what I think is a workable solution that's inexpensive, practical, and fully functional.
A simple hanging loop made from #6 Solid Copper Ground Wire solved my problems. Coming down from the coax attachment, it makes a simple loop - which is easy to solder to. The only tools needed to attach the radials would include a propane torch, solder, and flux (optional). As you can see, with 8 radials, there is plenty of room left to add more if I decide to. It took longer strip off insulation and solder than it did to install the antenna itself. If I decide to move the antenna or take it down, all I have to do is cut the radials off at the solder joint. Worst case, it's easily replaceable without any real cost.
Sure beats spending $50.00 on a radial plate when this works just as well.
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Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by K1XT on November 24, 2006
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Yep. I've been using that method for years. It's simple and fast. It also provides a firm, solid connection. Get all your radials down, and then solder them all at once using a propane torch. If you try using a soldering gun, you'll burn it up trying to get enough heat and the time it takes. Plus, you don't need an a/c run out to your work site. I like to use silver solder as it tends to be a bit stronger and resists the outdoor elements better and acidic soil at my location.
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Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by N0AH on November 24, 2006
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With that heavy gauge wire, you need with a high watt solder iron. It is a nice way to go. I did this with my 120 radials cutting accross my center field of my 80M four square. Took awhile but I think it was worth the effort. For my simple vertical installs, I go with buss line terminals for my radials with one wire going to the ground side of the antenna. You can find them at any Home Depot in the electrical section- Attaching radials is a good subject to cover- Nice posting-
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by K2WH on November 24, 2006
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I did something similar on an 80 meter vertical 70' total, I went to Sears and they sell 1/32" copper, 12" square. I just cut the corners off, drilled a bunch of holes around the perimeter and used brass screws to attach about 50 radials.
K2WH
P.S. Wish I could post a picture but this site doesn't allow it.
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Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by NN4RH on November 24, 2006
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Here's my version of a similar arrangement used with my Butternut HF2V.
http://members.cox.net/ai4cb/Images/HF2V_Ground_Mount.JPG
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by W4EF on November 24, 2006
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For my portable 160 meter operations, I use a piece of copper tubing with #8 machine screws passing through clearance holes on ~2" centers. I placed a wooden dowel rod inside the tubing so I can tighten the machine screws without crushing the tubing. The screws are extra long so as to form a linear array of studs for attaching the radials. Each radial wire has a crimp lug soldered on the end so that it can be easily attached to bus bar. I typically attach 3 to 4 radials per stud.
http://www.dellroy.com/W4EF's-Ham-Radio-Page/Salton-Sea-05/Salton-Sea.htm (scroll down to last picture)
I really should be using wing nuts to tighten down the radials (it would save time), but I just haven't got around to it. I typically use twenty to thirty 100' long radials when operating portable.
73, Mike W4EF....................
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by KD8BVJ on November 24, 2006
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My method is very similar to NN4RH's. I used 1/0 wire for my loop. 1/0 is too big. It required alot of extra heating. I have a Oxy/Acetylene torch so it did work but I think I would use #6 or #4 next time. I used Silfoss for my connections.
73 de KD8BVJ
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Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by KO4XJ on November 24, 2006
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I just installed a Cushcraft 80 meter vertical and I used 4 busbars out of circuit breaker boxes. Bought them at Lowe Home Improvement for apprx $5.50 each.
Used 2 inch alumimum square stock to make squares so I could bolt the busbars to and make a square radial bracket. I can now connect up to 80 radials without doubling up any screw and I used short jumpers from the busbars to the clamp on the vertical base. It seems to work FB, worked 5A7A on 75m the first night I had it up
You can see some pics of the bracket and antenna install at http://www.w4nja.org/ko4xj.htm
REMEMBER" It ain't a professional job, it was done by an AMATUER!!!
73 and tnx for your article
John
KO4XJ
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by K1XT on November 25, 2006
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Thanks to KD8BVJ for mentioning the Silfoss. Silfoss contains 5% to 15% silver and is used a great deal in refrigeration systems. True silver solder contains much more silver content and as a result requires much more heat. Even Silfoss will require about twice as much heat as our traditional electrical solder. What I actually use is Silfoss and not the higher content silver solder. You truly will need an oxy torch for silver solder. Thanks for pointing that out. Perhaps someone who works in HVAC and has experience with the many different types of solder could begin a separate thread. I would like to know a bit more about the various types available and their uses.
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by W4EF on November 25, 2006
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K1XT wrote:
>>Thanks to KD8BVJ for mentioning the Silfoss. Silfoss contains 5% to 15% silver and is used a great deal in refrigeration systems. True silver solder contains much more silver content and as a result requires much more heat. Even Silfoss will require about twice as much heat as our traditional electrical solder. What I actually use is Silfoss and not the higher content silver solder. You truly will need an oxy torch for silver solder. Thanks for pointing that out. Perhaps someone who works in HVAC and has experience with the many different types of solder could begin a separate thread. I would like to know a bit more about the various types available and their uses.<<
For my radials system at home, I used JW Harris StaySilv 15 Silver/Phosphor brazing rods (15% silver/ 5% phosphor). I was able to braze with these rods using a simple MAP gas torch, but just barely (it takes a long time to get a 5/8" ground rod hot enough to braze on a #8 solid conductor). An Oxy-Acetylene setup would have been much better.
I am curious what benefit would be derived from going to a higher content silver solder other than the higher melting point which might be useful for bonding conductors in a lightning protection system (an alternative to cad-welding, perhaps)?
73, Mike W4EF....................
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by W9OY on November 25, 2006
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Why would you go to all the trouble of welding something as simple as a little piece of radial wire?
73 W9OY
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by KD8BVJ on November 25, 2006
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Lee, I have read numerous times that regular solder will not hold up to the elements. I had little pieces of Silfoss I found around the shop. I have been picking up a little here and there off the floor of the shop that our HVAC contractors would discard. Once I actually found a whole piece.
If I remember correctly I used a few rods of Phos/bronze rod for some connections. I found the Phos/Bronze rod at Home Depot.
There was more than once I thought going with a Radial Plate from DX Engineering would be a lot simpler but there is no way the Plate would be cheaper. My goal was to get it finished by the winter contest season so I had a lot of time to do this.
73 de KD8BVJ
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by W9OY on November 25, 2006
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If it was me I would use a compression joint instead of some kind of solder joint. I would just go down to the ACE and get a little piece of copper plate, drill some 1/4" holes through it and run a stainless bolt, washer, lock washer, and nut through the plate and tighten that sucker down. If your worried about corrosion, once every ten years take the thing apart and sand it down and your ready for another ten years, or stick the plate in a little junction box away from the elements and your probably good for 50 years.
I agree a solder joint will break down fairly quickly when exposed to dirt and the elements.
73 W9OY
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by W4EF on November 25, 2006
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W9OY wrote:
>>Why would you go to all the trouble of welding something as simple as a little piece of radial wire?<<
In my case, the main buss bar for the radial system on the south side of my house is a ground rod placed horizontally. The radials are a combination of #8 bare copper and #14 THHN. The radials are now buried under a concrete walkway, which is why I elected to use silver solder brazing over some kind of mechanical compression joint.
73, Mike W4EF...............
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by K9KJM on November 25, 2006
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The Silfoss type of brazed connection is by far the best to use outdoors or underground. Plain lead/tin solder does turn into a white powder outdoors in most soils........... The Silfoss joint, If using the higher content silver is almost as good as a Cadweld connection, And is in fact what was used years ago to join the #10 copper radial wires to the ground ring of 2" copper strap around the base of commercial AM radio stations.
And as already pointed out, MAPP gas in a small hand held torch does flow the stuff very well in all but the most demanding situations (Like bonding to 5/8" ground rods, Where a real ox/acy torch would work much better)
It all gets down to how long you want your system to last....... Mechanical joints will not last nearly as long as the silver soldered ones.......
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by NN4RH on November 26, 2006
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I just use regular lead-free plumbing solder - not sure what's in it - and water soluble flux from Home Depot, and a propane torch. Then wash the connections after soldering and paint them with ScotchKote.
I go out and look at the connections occassionally since I have to be there anyway while mowing the lawn etc. Haven't noticed any corrosion (installation has been in place for 11 montsh). If I did, I suppose I'd simply clean up the joints and solder it again.
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by NN4RH on November 26, 2006
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In a previous installation I used regular electronics resin-core solder with no protective coating. It turned to dust pretty quick - over a summer.
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by NI0C on November 26, 2006
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I used to to secure my radials with brass machine screws using a copper strap with holes drilled in it. Such home brew arrangemments will work; however I much prefer my DXE radial plate and SS hardware. It's much easier to add radials using only a nut driver with a solid plate there to torque them down. I solder ring terminals on each radial, and can stack up to four No. 14 ga. radials on one SS bolt attach point on the plate.
73,
Chuck NI0C
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Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by K2WH on November 26, 2006
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My Method of Radial Attachment.
http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_hr_18935468/a35d/__hr_/a7d5.jpg?grQ2eaFB4ZkU8Pih
K2WH
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by K5UJ on November 26, 2006
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the photo shows a pipe sitting on top of a black section that goes into the ground. that black section looks like an insulator. It can't be that though, because the flat strap coming off of the metal part up higher is holding the uhf female and is both bonded to the radials and the mast. either the insulator is up higher or the radials are bonded to the driven vertical, or it's a folded monopole. a photo showing more of the antenna might clarify.
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by K5UJ on November 26, 2006
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i apologize, i just realized there's what appears to be an insulated sleeve up higher that I didn't see before. Browser challenged I am I guess. 73
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by N3KQX on November 26, 2006
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KO4XJ - Great idea. How did you attach the corner pieces? Can you add a closeup shot?
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by W9OY on November 26, 2006
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So lemme get this strait, for a #14 wire that carries current measured in tens of milliamps, and for a ground screen that measures on the order of ohms to tens of ohms (not milliohms or microohms) you need something like a Cadweld joint?
So what do you need to go water skiing, a battle ship?
73 W9OY
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Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by KA3DPW on November 26, 2006
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I've had this set up in the past on a vertical. works good for a while, then corrosion set in. Solder joints turn like metal filings and copper gets a dark film which could increase resistence to RF. The wires in the sloder joint eventually corroded to the center steel element. I borrowed the antenna, so I returned it. I learned from the experience. Short term it's ok. But if you want long lasting results better planning and investment is really needed.
I took 3 years and planned out a more permanent layout. It owrked better than I thought, and gained a good learning experience for the expense.
Scope and objective are the big tools here. More so than expense. The question you must answer is this: Do you want short term or longterm? That is really the factor.
Before when I did this the time frame for the antenna was 2 years. That was all that I was expecting at most where I resided. Now I live more permanent, I built to last better than 10 years maybe even the life of the next solar cycle. Then see what will be.
Now I have a stainless steel plate, 60 radials and feed hardline. Costly "yes" within planned scope and objective "definitely". It was the planning. Full-size quarter-wave ground-mounted was my choice of antenna this time on 40 meters. Capable of full legal limit of power and stood up well tyo the weather and the trees that trashed my wires all year around. It's also transportable and camoflaged quite well. The neighbors don't hear it and the local zoning doesn't have a problem with it. And the radials are buried just below the surface.
Yes you have a good short term idea for a ground plane. Will do good above ground too. A good start or temporary antenna. But cover those exposed metals.
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by KO4XJ on November 26, 2006
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N3KQX - I just drilled thru the bar and tapped it with some 1/4 fine tread bolts(same as the bus bar screws) and then ran the 1/4 inch bolt up from the bottom to hold the alumimum square in place...careful when you tap the new hole, you can break out the side of the bus bar if it's not drilled in the middle of the bar.
You don't even have to bolt them in the corner, connect the bars with wire at the corners for continuity and use yard stapes to hold the bars in place
73
John
KO4XJ
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by W9WHE-II on November 27, 2006
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Nice article.
But remember that because ground radials do not carry much current, it is possible to use thinner (and less expensive) wire.
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by W4VR on November 27, 2006
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I've been using the same method for over 20 years....wrapping 12-gauge stranded until I get a 6 or 4-gauge equivalent loop. I never bothered to solder the radial wires onto the loop...I simple wire-wrap the radials very tightly around the loop and tape them up. For radials I use TV rotator cable (5 wires) and peel each wire to make 5 radials....this stuff comes in 100' rolls and is cheap.
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RE: Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by W7NWH on December 4, 2006
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Now that is a good idea... the roter, 5 strands and peel concept.
One thing I did in the 1970's was electric fence wire and a homebrew 40 meter vertical. I used a 15" christmas wreath frame. I staked it down and let the grass grow back over it. The wire was a little difficult to work with, but it pinned down well in the soil. I layed 60 radials this way and boy that thing worked great!
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Quick and Easy Radial Attachment
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by WA7SCH on December 4, 2006
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Nice suggestions all.
I took a piece of blank double sided pcb board and drilled holes in a circle around the board. I then used self tapping screws and wirelugs to attach the radials to the pcb board. A little propane hand soldering and the lugs were soldered to the copper pcb board and the screws and lugs keep the mechanical connection in tact. No problems now for about 2 years.
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