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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

Mobile Impulse Noise

Alan Applegate (K0BG) on November 18, 2006
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Mobile Impulse Noise

A recent comment added to my Alternator Whine article, prompted this one on mobile impulse noise.

That comment stated that some forms of ignition noise can sound like alternator whine. When combined with some forms of DSP (Digital Signal Processing), there is a ring of truth in the statement (pun intended). Nonetheless, a clarification is in order.


As I stated in the alternator article, the frequency of alternator whine is roughly equivalent to the engine RPM. At a steady-state 60 MPH, the average V6 vehicle engine is turning about 1,800 RPM. Four cylinders will be a little higher, and eight cylinders a little lower. So the whine will be in the range of 1,500 Hz, to about 3,000 Hz. Twelve diode alternators will be double this amount. Generally speaking, the output is a series of sinusoidal half waves, and as such the rise time is rather slow. As a result, there is very little harmonic energy generated unless there is a bad diode. Even then there is no appreciable amount of RFI generated.

At the same RPM, a V6 engine will fire three times with each revolution. At 60 MPH, that's a frequency of 5,400 Hz. Because the ignition arc occurs when the field of the ignition coil relaxes, the rise time is very fast. As a result, a whole lot of RFI is generated well into the VHF spectrum. Because of the different gear ratios used, and at any given MPH, the RFI frequency tends to be the same regardless of the number of cylinders. Incidentally, the level of ignition RFI changes with engine load and/or RPM.

Modern engines universally incorporate electromechanical fuel injection. The electromagnetic coil is energized for a very precise period of time by the engine control computer. When the field collapses, a fast rise time pulse is generated. Here too the resulting RFI extends into the VHF spectrum. As a rule, the injector pulse is less bothersome, due in part to a lower current requirement (verses the ignition). However, the new direct-gasoline injection systems use higher current levels as the nominal fuel rail pressure is as high as 150 BAR, therefore they tend to be worse RFI offenders.

Modern diesels aren't much better with respect to impulse noise as they too use electromagnetic injectors or an electromagnetic shuttle system. In fact, the current used to drive the coils tends to be higher than gas engines so more RFI is generated.


DSP systems come in many different forms. They may be audio based, IF based, or external. In a few high-priced radios, the DSP is applied directly to, and at, the incoming signal's frequency. The effect, or lack of it, on the incoming signal is different with each design. However, a few general assumptions can be made with respect to amateur transceivers.

1). We limit the audio bandwidth to about 3 kHz, albeit the front ends may be barn door wide.

2). Fast rise time signals (ignition RFI) tend to be masked better than slow rise time signals (alternator whine), which is, as a rule, part of their algorithm.

3). Bandpass width and depth adjustments change the perceived level and shape of any given type of interference.

4). Signal integration and phase distortion are common problems, especially with inexpensive DSP designs.

As a result of these shortcomings, the perceived interference (the actual audio) we hear out of our speakers can be much different than the actual signal would otherwise sound. This makes definitive identification of the various AFI, RFI, and EMI signals difficult.


There are very few built in noise blanker circuits worth any mentioning. Almost universally, the distortion, IMD products, and crosstalk they generate makes their use in high-level RFI situations antithetical (mutually incompatible). Add in a dose of poor DSP design, and it becomes very difficult to distinguish one RFI source from another.


It is always best to cure an RFI problem at it source. If you don't know the source, you're wasting time and effort. Identifying which is which is difficult at best. There are a few examples of the worst offenders located within my web site article Noise ID (http://www.k0bg.com). These sound files may help you identify which is which. However, they are by no means the only examples.

Nonetheless, here are a few suggestions to make sure which RFI generator you're dealing with.

1). Keep the DSP off, or at least at it's widest bandpass setting and minimum depth (DSP level in some cases).

2). Keep the noise blanker turned off.

3). Use the highest band (frequency) where the RFI can be easily heard.

4). If you remove the antenna and the noise goes away, it's a safe bet it's radiated RFI rather than induced noise through the wiring.

5). If removing the coax from the radio reduces or increases what appears to be alternator whine, chances are it's caused by poor DC wiring and/or grounding.

6). If you hear a rhythmic tick, tick, tick, that is too slow to be ignition, it could very well be a fuel pump.

7). A carrier which continues for a few seconds after turning off the ignition may also be a fuel pump. On Honda vehicles, the carrier shows up every 5 kHz, and can even be heard on 10 meters. It is caused by a mono-stable vibrator which drives the brush-less fuel pump motor. The motor stays on until the oil pressure drops as an aid in purging the system of excess vapor. This fact makes identification somewhat easier.

8). Some fuel pumps use brushed motors even though they are mounted inside the fuel tank. These cause an intermittent hash. There is usually a few seconds of hash when you first turn on the ignition, and then intermittently after the engine is running. Revving the engine changes the stacotic rhythm, but not the level of RFI.

9). If you listen carefully at low RPMs, you'll hear the injection pulse, and then the ignition pulse immediately afterward. If you have a scope, and connect it to the audio output, you can actually see the two pulses. The ignition pulse is always much higher than the injector pulse. The point being, most of the time you can't hear the injectors as their pulse is masked by the ignition pulse.

10). Some lessor known RFI generators are throttle position motors (primarily drive-by-wire systems), IAC (Idle Air Controls), Navi ROM motors, cross-flow ventilation motors (which can run even though the HVAC is off), and servo motors in automatic transmissions.

11). The most common RFI sources (more or less in order), ignition, injectors, cooling fans, HVAC fans, and windshield wiper motors.


If there is anything universal about noise suppression, it is the fact no solution is universal. Here's a few things to keep in mind while you're locating a source:

There are as many "fixes" as there are RFI sources. These include (more or less in order) very robust bonding, proper antenna mounting, proper DC and coax wiring, split beads, shielding, shunt capacitors, and a host of others;

What suppresses some forms of RFI, won't necessarily work with other similar sources;

What suppresses a specific RFI problem on your last vehicle, is no indication it will work on your new one;

Two separate sources can produce the exact same signature. Curing one won't necessarily cure or mask the other. In other words, if your attempt to cure a source (like adding a split bead or two), didn't cure the RFI, don't remove the first cure until you find the second identical signatured one. A good example of this is injector and ignition RFI;

Two, otherwise identical, vehicles can have vastly different levels of RFI, EMI, and AFI. Buying a vehicle because you have heard it is RFI clean is a prescription for owning the worst RFI generator on four wheels. If you're really into mobile operation, take along a decent HF receiver as a precaution;

If a couple of ground straps cured your RFI problem, the only conclusion that can be draw is, you were very lucky;

What ever you do, don't give up! John Pavelich, VE3XKD, has spend about 200 hours, and that much money curing the RFI emitted by his Prius, and he isn't done yet!


On the forefront of automotive technology is a new vehicle breaking system being developed by Siemens, a German electronics company. A short write up of the system appears in the November 13th issue of AutoWeek, on page 10. While a very significant development in many ways, the system uses high frequency signalling to control the electronic actuation motors. It is yet another example of why it pays to be cognisant of cutting edge, digitally controlled devices, which have a potential of causing serious RFI.


FCC Part 15, Subpart B, 15.103 (a) exempts automobiles as unintentional radiators. However, the preamble to that exemption states that manufacturers should endeavor to keep levels below those set by Part 15. Exemption or not, excessive levels of RFI from any vehicle should be brought to the attention of the selling dealership, factory representative, and even the corporate offices of the manufacturer. It is a case of the proverbial squeaking wheel. After all, we don't want automotive digital electronics to become another BPL-like wasteland.

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
Mobile Impulse Noise  
by K1CJS on November 18, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
Wow, Alan, you've just exploded with writing lately. As you pointed out before, there are a lot of possible sources of RFI in an automobile, and tracking them down takes time, patience and more than a little technical competence.

Thanks for your tips and your help!!
 
Mobile Impulse Noise  
by N0AH on November 18, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
So Alan,

What mobile HF radio out there today, on your opinion, has the best filtering?
 
RE: Mobile Impulse Noise  
by KR4WM on November 18, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
I have a constant hash on my 2002 Toyota 4Runner. I thought it might be the fuel pump, which I felt was unfixable due to the difficulty in getting to where it is located. After reading this, I'm wondering if my problem is something else. The noise doesn't change with engine speed, is not intermittent, and only goes away with the engine turned off. It's not alternator whine because the pitch never varies, it's just hash, and there is no place on HF/VHF that it can't be heard. Has anyone else encountered this, and if so, did you find a fix? The problem is so bad, I can't even turn down my squelch on 2M FM, so I miss all weak signals. I have a constant S8 noise level that can be seen on the S-meter when the engine is running (on HF SSB all the way up through 2M FM and SSB). Changing frequencies does not make the problem diminish or peak. The noise is peaked ALL the time! Thanks if anyone has any advice, -KR4WM
 
RE: Mobile Impulse Noise  
by VE3XKD on November 19, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
Another great article Alan!

I sympathize with everyone who is experiencing noise. As hybrids and digitally controlled vehicles become more and more mainstream, HF mobile operations will be impacted.

In working on my Prius, with significant help and encouragement from Alan, I developed techniques for identifying the location of noise sources. In the case of the Prius the DC-DC converter (the so-called Synergy Drive) radiates a 'huge' amount of broadband noise from abt 2MHz up to abt 15 Mhz.

After grounding and shielding the DC-DC converter and adding ferrites to each cable entering and exiting the box (not an easy job!), I was still left with S9 and greater noise. It seemed that HF mobile operation would be impossible! Clearly I needed techniques to locate, then reduce sources of noise.

It became apparrent that electrical fields generated by the DC-DC converter and other digital boxes are so large that they induce a large amount of HF signal voltage into the various vehicle wiring harnesses.

The harnesses travel from inside the engine compartment through the firewall, are distributed along the vehicle ending up in the rear of the vehicle. These harnesses are not shielded, bypassed or grounded and hence act like antennas and radiate noise.

Some of the major sources I identified, included four digital boxes, the exhaust and the ignition system. Another ham, using similar techniques, identified that the regenerative breaking system generates noise while the breaks are applied!

I used two techniques to locate noise. Firstly I used a small resonant whip antenna and attached it via a length of coax to a manpack radio (IC 703). The radio was tuned to a ham band, turned on and left outside the vehicle (there's a reason why). Using the antenna as a wand, I walk around the vehicle waving the wand over the vehicle surface listening for peaks in noise (hot spots).

On the Prius this identified the front windshield wipers as major radiators of noise. By simply grounding the wipers, noise was reduced(on all bands) by several S units. I also identified the front lights and the rear lights as noise sources (at least S6 noise). I also identified that the vehicle roof, at the back, was the least noisy location to mount an HF antenna!

Next, the wand is waved over the inside of the vehicle. I was surprised at the results! When I did this in the rear hatch (after opening the hatch)I found S9 plus 15 noise.

I then switched to my second technique. I disconnected the 'wand' and connected a length of coax terminated in a small 2 inch loop. I used the loop as a probe and identified specific noise sources inside the hatch (after removing the carpet and plastic molding. That's how I found that the Prius NiMh battery box is poorly shielded in one spot, found a digital control box that was radiating noise, and determined that the wiring harness was radiating noise.

After the loop identified major hot spots. I then used 3M 1181 copper foil shielding tape to shield, and then bond to ground, the offending hot spots. The tape is wrapped around the offending digital box or wiring harness. Seams are tack soldered and the assembly is grounded to the vehicle chassis.

In each case, after shielding/bonding/grounding I re-measured the noise using the loop and wand technique and found considerable reductions in received noise and 'hot spots' disappeared making for improved reception.

As a bonus, I realized that there were 'good' and 'bad' spots to mount my screwdriver antenna. In the case of the Prius it seems that the radio mounting location inside the Prius may also be of concern.

By the repeating the above processes throughout the vehicle eventually I could Operate 20 and 80 meters with noise levels below S3 and S5 respectively. 40 is still a problem with noise levels at S7.

I am not finished yet - it is a work in progress however the results are encouraging.

Sorry for the long post - I hope this helps those hams with noisy vehicles.

73

John

VE3XKD

 
RE: Mobile Impulse Noise  
by K0BG on November 19, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
Paul, to answer your question, and assuming we're talking about radios designed primarily for mobile use and their DSP capabilities, the Icom IC-7000 takes the prize. The Kenwood TS480 isn't bad either. The 706, and 857 are just so-so as their DSP is audio based.

Noise blanker wise, they all stink! I even tried the MFJ-1026, and to be honest, it's more hassle than it's worth, at least in a mobile setting.

As for DC filtering, I've never noticed one being any better than another, although some of the early Yeasu VHF models are more sensitive to alternator whine for some reason.

One solution I've used with good success, is a passive audio filter. I built one in to an old Heathkit mobile speaker. I used parts out of a 3 way speaker crossover I bought for $10 at Radio Shack. It has about 12 dB per octave roll off starting at 1,900 Hz. If nothing else, it makes listening a little more tolerable for my wife.

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
 
RE: Mobile Impulse Noise  
by KG4RUL on November 19, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
And now, a NEW source of noise for your mobiling pleasure - Electric Power Steering!!

My Sature VUE started out very quite but now biggest noise source is power steering motors. Like most DC motors, as they are used, the commutators get worn and start sparking. Voila! Instant noise and an absolute bear to get anywhere near to apply suppression measures.

Something to look forward to on future models as this is touted as a fuel saving scheme.

Dennis KG4RUL
 
RE: Mobile Impulse Noise  
by N4HRA on November 19, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
My 99 Dodge Caravan was real bad for engine noise, so I use a old trick, I grounded the tail pipe to the frame. Noise level is now 0 with the noise blanker off

My 2 cents

Lew
N4HRA
 
RE: Mobile Impulse Noise  
by G8UBJ on November 20, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
I may try that, like most cars my tail pipe is only electrically connected at the engine, so its a sort of low slung antenna with rubber insulators (I wonder how well the rubber mounts conduct?). Maybe its carrying noise to the rear of the car where my Antenna is...
 
RE: Mobile Impulse Noise  
by W6TH on November 20, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
.
Another great one Alan
.:
 
RE: Filtering???  
by W4CNG on November 20, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
N0AH (WHAT THE RIGHT CALLSIGN AS AN #$%^ HOLE IDIOT), it's not FILTERING for the radio, IT'S how you set-up the MOBILE station to not receive the NOISE that is out in the real world. As I have said in many other POSTS, your's are not apreciated by LOTS of us, read that as Shut-UP and GO Away....
Steve W4CNG
 
RE: Filtering???  
by W4CNG on November 20, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
Alan, how right on the mark. Too many IDIOTS responding with really dumb remarks that have never installed and used a Mobile HF station.
I'll keep reading your articles Alan.

Steve W4CNG
 
RE: Filtering???  
by K8MHZ on November 23, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
VE3XKD,

I hope you have a very understanding car dealer.

To most mechanics the act of wrapping foil around a computer may indicate a mental deficiency of some sort :)

I sure hope you took some care to assure that the sharp edges of the copper foil cannot cut through any wires as a result of vibration.

If you DO have a very understanding car dealer you may want to demonstrate to them why you provided the shielding. This info may get passed on to Toyota and either entered in to a Technical Service Bulletin or looked into as the premise for an option.

As electronic devices become smaller and more prolific, including receivers of all sorts, the dealers will be asked more to quell the static. When I worked for Chrysler in the early 90's people would come in with static on their AM radios. To start with, the antennas were cut for the FM band so I was not starting off well, and the factory was literally useless in helping the techs about most electrical issues. I knew enough to ground the tailpipes and filter the blower motors but the other techs had no place to turn for information.

Toyota may appreciate the information.
 
Mobile Impulse Noise  
by K3RFI on November 25, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
Mobile noise can be tricky indeed. Remember most mobile noises will respond to a change in RPM or load. Especially modern vehicles. The processor tells everything to change when needed so load and rpm makes a change in everything. The alternator is the easiest to diagnose. Remove the belt and start the vehicle. If the noise continues it's not the alt.
Keep in mind Electronic fuel injection systems, both gas and diesel, fuel pumps, ABS brakes and body noise. On hf body noise/friction is a biggy. As you role the noise starts and stops when you do. No acceleration required.
Happy Holidays,
Mike k3rfi
 
RE: Mobile Impulse Noise  
by K0BG on November 27, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
Be advised, that removing the fan belt on a Honda (and many other newer vehicles), will cause the "Check Engine" light to come on. Depending on the programming, it may not go back off. Dealership's charge big bucks for doing so. Even a cheap OBD II reader will turn the light off, and reset the codes.

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
 
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