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Amplifier Crutches
Bryon "Paul" Veal (N0AH)
on
December 2, 2006
View comments about this article!
Two major events in my amateur radio career affected my hobby like no other. The day I went from a backyard multi-band vertical to a tribander, and the day I purchased my first HF amplifier for which this article turns its attention.
On August 14, 1996, a few months after I earned my extra ticket, I was using my first HF set ever with a stock TS-940 and a Cushcraft AP8A multi-band vertical. Inexperienced, I was tuning through 40 meters one night and heard my first split operation. It was a VK station on SSB working stateside. What was the big deal? So I called him and he came back to me in a huge pile up. I went to bed.
I got his card a couple of months later and took it the Mile High DX Club meeting. People thought I had beginners luck because unknown to me, that VK QSO was with Macquarie Island. A scientist, VK4NAR, was stationed there from 1995-1996. I got lucky with no-nothing antenna and no amplifier on the first call to VK0WH.
OK, chalk it up to beginners luck. As I matured as a DX'er, I began experimenting with amplifiers over peer pressure from DX'ers who called themselves my friends. Then, after breaking one pile up, I had to have the amp on to make every QSO. I could not go a day without using one. I didn't care about the antenna. It didn't matter. I started putting up Ameritron ads on my shack wall, and of course, my dream machine cover page of Alpha Power's Alpha 99.
But then, in my DX'peditions and over-sea travels, I realized that being able to hear was a lot more important than running power. What is the good of an amplifier if you can't hear any one? Try working CQWWSSB from a French club station in a factory garage. The amplifier had no value.
I was in the twilight zone when I just concluded that you can look at an amplifier in one of two ways. As a crutch knowing that you are improving your chances of being heard, or using it as a crunching device so you will be heard over other stations where the other station has a high noise level. Or maybe, just for a conversation?
If you are looking for ways to let go of the crutching grip an amplifier holds over you, here is a reality check for you to consider.
On Lord Howe in 1998 as VK9LZ, I worked hundreds of JA stations. Going 3-5KHz wide, I could hear the big gun stations. But you know what, I asked for QRP stations too. And I was always looking for the common man's signal. Did I work big signals? Yes as they were unavoidable. But my decision of who to work was not based on signal strength. It was just random based on my mood that hour.
In 2004 working as 3DA0AX, we had big antennas and one amplifier. Our rates were at QRP levels as propagation was as poor as I can remember ever hearing. Our amplifier was a nice paper weight.
So there you have it from both sides. As a DX'er, I didn't care if you had an amp and as a DX'er, having the amp didn't make the propagation work for us. So what good is the amp? I have two amps. So I'm not being one sided here. I enjoy having them. I just want to know how amateur radio operators feel about three things with an amp in their own shack:
Assuming that your 1KW amplifier will give you two s-units more on the other station's meter over your 100 watts, (this scale quoted to me by two different amplifier manufacturers') is the emotional and financial attachment really worth it?
What is more important for making a contact in a pile up? Propagation, power, or your antenna. Please choose only one as the amplifier choice makes no sense-.
With many of today's amateur radio amplifiers' having meter ranges going up to 2.5KW, what does tell you?
My answers are simple. If all of us were able to low band DX where signals come and go in the static on a quiet morning grayline, I'd have one for everybody! For every day use, I'd put my money into the antenna. I believe many amateurs get away with what they can on amplifier outputs allowing them to use discretion as a better part of valor. And this bothers me because they use amps like a crutch in contests, chasing DX, and having the biggest guns on the street. Or am I just being difficult?
What do you think? Do you have a Crutch in your shack or an amplifier? Or is it someone you know who does? Or is everything that I am saying hogwash and having a power amplifier is a wise necessity of any proven amateur radio operator?
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by VK2GWK on December 2, 2006
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You are a bit rambling..... but I agree with one thing - which is the upshot of your article - "power is not everything".
Operating practice comes first in my opinion,
next the antenna,
third the audio quality
and last and least of all the power of the station.
There would be someting to say for limiting output power worldwide to 100 W.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by DJ0MBC on December 2, 2006
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But some of us have very poor antennas because of property or space restrictions. There an amplifier really makes a difference.
Vy 73, Bob DJ0MBC/WU5T
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by LNXAUTHOR on December 2, 2006
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- everything is relative... day before yesterday i had a nice QSO w/an op more than 1,500 miles away... i was using about 2W on a wire dipole and he was using 5W on a beam at height...
- everything was fine until we got stepped on by some amp-ops splattering nearly 8kHz off our freq (normal operations, apparently, on 20M - where some hams sound like they're deaf with one foot in the grave)...
- but this is something that barefoot and QRP ops expect and deal with...
(and yes, i am very grateful for any ham with good ears, a great antenna, and a willingness to deign to work a QRP op - i won't take all the credit for a contact)...
:-)
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N2RRA on December 2, 2006
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You make some good points, but having an amplifier in the shack, and often use of it is not a crutch at all.
Yes! 5 watts can take you a long way, but of course depends on the propagation levels. The fact is that chances of busting through a pile up, or D.X. station hearing you during grey line hours through European stations can be a difficult task or not at all. Now you need that amp.
Now lets take a 100 watts even today can be at times quite difficult, and still sometimes would wish that you had just that 500 watts to get through.
Another way to look at it is we are envolved in Amatuer Radio operating. Which would means as an "Amatuer Radio Operator" we practice broadcasting signals with the best possible equipment to get that signal consistantly heard just like any other commercial broadcast station, but with limitations of course.
Now you can run 1500 watts, and that's no problem unless stations are complaining you'r S9 , and slattering 5Kc +/-. That's where to learn how to run your station correctly.
I very often for one listen for, and pick up the weakest of stations in a pile up first, and listen carefully for QRP or mobile op's.
Everyone has an option's! Peak of the sun spot cycle 100 watts all you need. QRP is fun and challenging. Amplifier in any cycle? Well take your pick.
73 and have fun
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Amplifier Crutches
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by NF6E on December 2, 2006
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Amplifiers do not trump operator skill.
I operated Field Day 2004 with a large group way out in the eastern mountains of San Diego, but only on Saturday afternoon. I had to be back in town early Sunday. On Sunday morning I had an itch to grab some time on the air, so I took my QRP rig and portable dipole and set everything up in the backyard. I racked up 18-QSO’s in 60-minutes.
Is 18-QSO’s an hour spectacular? Probably not. But here’s the thing – I was running 2-watts on battery power to dipole at 8-feet. I’m not sure if that same contact ratio could be duplicated under the same band conditions in a non-Field Day situation. Reason? I believe was due to the operators on the other end making an extra effort to listen for me – to listen for anyone. It was their level of operating skill that helped me overcome my own ultra-weak signal.
Amps are fine. I've owned a couple in the past and I will likely own another one in the future. And I understand that some folks are subject to antenna restrictions and use amps in an attempt to be on par with stations not subject to antenna restrictions. But if given the option today of improving my antenna situation or adding an amplifier to my existing station, I’d choose improving my antenna situation any day. Improving your antenna not only improves your transmitted signal, it improves reception as well.
NF6E
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by VA3XQ on December 2, 2006
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Nice article and I agree to a point. I think limiting the output of amps would be better. 400 watts max limit(like some countries do)would make it easier to hear on any band because of the guys that cannot or will not operate there equipment properly and are as wide as a house. More attention to your antenna. I think thats where we started out wasn't it?
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W1RKW on December 2, 2006
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<<<....."power is not everything".>>>
Huh?!
More power! Arr Arr Arr!
;-)
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Moderate Power Amplifiers
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by AI2IA on December 2, 2006
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Assuming that your 1KW amplifier will give you two s-units more on the other station's meter over your 100 watts, (this scale quoted to me by two different amplifier manufacturers') is the emotional and financial attachment really worth it?
Answer: Don't have a 1 kW amplifier. Have a 300 Watt amplifier. There is such a thing as diminishing returns.
What is more important for making a contact in a pile up? Propagation, power, or your antenna. Please choose only one as the amplifier choice makes no sense.
Answer: If all your care about is points, then power. If you enjoy ham radio more than points, then either of the other two.
With many of today's amateur radio amplifiers' having meter ranges going up to 2.5KW, what does tell you?
Answer: It tells you that you bought the wrong amplifier. A little extra power goes a long way. A lot of extra power makes the marketing folks happier.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by K1CJS on December 2, 2006
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Sure, amplifiers are nice to have, but I rather put my money into a quality antenna. It stands to reason that the more you can hear, the better the chances are the more can hear you.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by W1YW on December 2, 2006
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The DX station needs to be loud. That is the only way to control the pileup.
Stateside, if you are not running a KW, then wait until the pileup dies down; most DXpedition contacts are with non-KW stations.
Don't bother with a KW without a decent antemma. Unidirectionality is needed to cut down the QRM from other stations calling the DX.
73,
Chip W1YW
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Amplifier Crutches
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by N2ETJ on December 2, 2006
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I have a big amp and often use it in pileups so not to add to the qrm caused by low power stations calling over and over in an attempt to make the contact. Yes I can call over and over or turn on amp, get in and out without having to add to the qrm on the frequency. There is a time and a place for everything... just use your head
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W4LGH on December 2, 2006
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There is an old saying, and it still holds true today..."If you can't hear them, you CAN'T work them!"
There is NO subsitute for a good antenna and a good receiver. However, as it was said earlier, some of us can't build super antennas because of CC&R, and other reasons. So we build the best we can. I have 4 different wire antennas up of different designs and frequencies that do do fairly well. I am in a CCR neighborhood, but have about 50 acres of wetlands directly behind me. All my antennas are out there in the trees. I use a multitude of radios, from old boatanchors to my year old Yaesu FT-1000MP MKV. I do own a CRUTCH, or AMP if you prefer. It is not used for every contact, but does come in handy once in a while, and 2 S units is about 6db, so it does help.
But again, its no subsitute for a good antenna. If we all only used 100watts, it would be great, but we don't...besides an amplifier is another playtoy!!
Nothing wrong with all the playtoys you can have. I do have a new antenna coming for Christmas, going to put up and try one of those new Buckmaster OCF dipoles and see how it does. Many reviews say its a great antenna... so we are gonna give it a try.
73 es check us out on the web!
http://www.w4lgh.com
de W4LGH - Alan
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Amplifier Crutches
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by VA3SAX on December 2, 2006
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There's nothing like trying to answer a DX station on a qrp rig with very little AGC and then getting blown away by the guy just on the other side of the border running a Kw+ station...I think that if I can hear you loud enough to blow my ears off from 400 km away at least...then you're running too much power
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KB9CRY on December 2, 2006
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1.
1. Assuming that your 1KW amplifier will give you two s-units more on the other station's meter over your 100 watts, (this scale quoted to me by two different amplifier manufacturers') is the emotional and financial attachment really worth it?
OH, yes most definately. And my SB-220 was bought used 12 years ago and is still using the same tubes; so very good investment.
2.
What is more important for making a contact in a pile up? Propagation, power, or your antenna. Please choose only one as the amplifier choice makes no sense-.
My antenna
3.
With many of today's amateur radio amplifiers' having meter ranges going up to 2.5KW, what does tell you?
That the manufacturers are understanding that as our financial situations are improving that we're going to be able to afford more than a KW of power.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by K8KAS on December 2, 2006
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With band conditions like they have been for the past year a KW is sure a help. I have run power for my 45 years in the hobby and I like it. It's great not to have to pull some dubby out of the mud with his QRP junk, most times he lacks a good antenna so it's even worse. No power is nice if you use it when needed. Get real guys...
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by VE2LH on December 2, 2006
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Nice article!
Necessity of an amplifier might depend on the actual band...
Based on my experience, on 10 meters, propagation is the important factor. On 80-40 meters, propagation is still important (!) but having extra power can greatly help getting thru specially when most of us has to deal with man-made noise.
73
Sylvain
VE2LH
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KG6AMW on December 2, 2006
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Paul, your point about listening for the common man signal or QRP says it all. If you don't have the antenna or the power your going to sit a long time in the pileup and that's a fact of life. Secondly, while a really good antenna set up helps, it also costs (both time, effort and money). Maybe using a small or second hand amp isn't that bad. I'll keep and use my amplifier.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by WA1RNE on December 2, 2006
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I just want to know how amateur radio operators feel about three things with an amp in their own shack:
1.
Assuming that your 1KW amplifier will give you two s-units more on the other station's meter over your 100 watts, (this scale quoted to me by two different amplifier manufacturers') is the emotional and financial attachment really worth it?
>>> Not sure why you believe there is some "emotional attachment" to owning an amplifier. Sometimes even a 3 dB improvement is all it takes to break through the QRM in a pileup, but as an example, that requires going from 700 to 1500 watts or ~10x power. But "breaking through" also requires audio with "punch" but at the same time isn't overly compressed and distorted and has enough range so as not be "tinny".
2.
What is more important for making a contact in a pile up? Propagation, power, or your antenna. Please choose only one as the amplifier choice makes no sense-.
>> Guess I already touched on that, but in addition, if you don't have propagation, forget about it.
There is also an important distinction that hasn't been mentioned so far:
When you're in the clear going one on one with a DX station, the order of importance is propagation, antenna, then power and audio.
In a pile up, it is assumed and absolutely necessary to have BOTH propagation and an antenna system with low angle performance and enough efficiency that puts you on a level playing field with the competition.
After that, the deciding factors are power and audio, - unless the competition is using a very unique an exorbitantly expensive antenna system; i.e. stacked 80 meter yagis at 260 feet.
3.
With many of today's amateur radio amplifiers' having meter ranges going up to 2.5KW, what does tell you?
>>> One or all of 4 things: Most instrumentation ranges are scaled slightly higher than the actual measurement so as to add some margin and provide some flexibility; Some of this is attributed to marketing; Some amplifiers are also marketed to users who operate legally in similar HF bands at higher power levels; and for sure, some hams could be illegally pushing the envelop, which is unfortunately hard to spot and enforce unless the power level is so high it's causing interference to other services or extreme RFI.
WA1RNE
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But Captain I'm giving it all she's got!!!
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by W1DUD on December 2, 2006
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I like my amp and I am in the process of selling some equipment I don't use to get a bigger one. It's so attractive to see those red needles bouncing off the right side of the meter. LMAO "73" thedud
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Amplifier Crutches
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by K4JRB on December 2, 2006
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I worked over 300 DXCC entities on 17 and at least 240 on 12 with a little IC-740 running 100 watts.
The only reason I hooked up my Henry 2K at 600 watts out is that almost everyone else now run amps.
Certainly you feel more accomplishment working them with the low power.
Dave K4JRB
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by AE6CP on December 2, 2006
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Well I think if you're measuring the performance of a station (lets take the op out of the equation, I know ON4UN or W9KNI could out perform me using a Rockmite and a lightbulb no matter what kind of setup I had)
So if you have a robot at the key or mic, I believe the order of importance is:
-Location; (This aspect is so important because it has three parts, one is geo-political, the second is the RF noise floor of the area and the third is the elevation & Line Of Sight to the horizon. Again, no matter what kind of station you have and regardless of the propagation, if you have an S9 noise level it's very hard to hear anybody and operating from a tiny island in the far Southern hemisphere adds at least 15dB to your signal and a good vertical at the bottom of the Grand Canyon is probably equal to a dummy load on the top of a mountain)
-Propagation; (No matter what kind of setup you have, if you’re calling CQ on ten meters at midnight in December at the bottom of the solar cycle you're probably not going to get a reply.)
-Antenna; 1500 watts on a dipole vs 100 watts on a quad; the ERP will be similar on both antennas but the quad will hear much better than the dipole and allow for many more contacts.
-Power; All other variables being equal, more power is better so if you have a good antenna, and you have honed your skills, the next step would either be to move your shack to a salt-marsh on the top of a 10,000 foot plateau or to simply buy an Amplifier.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by N2LRB on December 2, 2006
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I have often thought it funny (interesting) that some guy spends over 10K in radio equipment, plus and amp and has a huge tower with huge beams all to just obtain a signal report.
All while I used a $700 radio, a home made dipole, and 90 watts to talk to the above mentioned radio operator types. It makes me think, who is getting more for their buck?
Back on topic, I can never see using an amplifier. I get through without them or I don't get through. Using higher power is like cheating. What is the joy in over powering your way to someone? And then mostly to get a dumb signal report.
I'd rather talk, then spend a lot on radios and amplifiers just for a signal report. Yet that is what a lot of hams do. Imagine spending over 10K for signal reporting or contesting? Wierd
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Amplifier Crutches
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by W8ZNX on December 2, 2006
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as with everything it not that simple
been a ham for over 40 years
first 20 years did not own a amp
for 5 years only rig
was a TenTec 509 Argonaut qrp rig
still love building and using qrp rigs
most of the time on cw run less than 18 watts
you can work lots of dx with qrp pwr
when the muf peaks out above 28 mc
its amazing what you can do
sunspot count down
late winter night great antenna
80 cw bottom of the band
no static crashes
can sometimes work dx running qrp
its happened to me
but won't be holding my breath waiting
for the next qrp dx contact on 80 cw
there are times you are not
going to work Cleveland,Ohio
with less than 400 watts
summer night
75 meters fone static crashes at 10 to 20 over
just try to have a nice rag chew
running less than
500 watts to a good antenna
there are times when a amp is a most usefull tool
there are times when you do not need a amp
if i did not own a amp, would be building one now
or looking for a old busted amp to fix and put on the air
yours truly
Mac
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RE: But Captain I'm giving it all she's got!!!
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by W9OY on December 2, 2006
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The common corn pone is "If ye cant hear'em ye cant work'em", which is true enough. but this article deals with a corollary "If they can't hear you, they can't work you". This is the relevant point regarding an amplifier. An amplifier can not help you hear'em. An amplifier helps them hear you.
The DX QSO is a highly choreographed exchange. The amount of data that is transmitted in a DX QSO is virtually none, and the way the data is presented tremendously promotes the data being passed. The call sign is about all that really gets passed given the fact that the signal report the majority of the time is 5nn, and given the DX-cluster system the call sign hardly needs to be copied anymore, so I'm not sure using DX contacts as a means to qualify the utility of an amplifier makes much sense. Neither do I see using a couple of examples as proof that amps are a crutch makes any sense either. One day 2 years ago I worked a VK6 with 100W on 80CW at 12 noon. That's one in the plus column. But then there's the million times I have been unable to get through to places like Nepal on 80CW, so I think the number of times you haven't been able to get through on difficult paths is a better way to view the necessity of an amp, and it refutes the notion that an amp is a crutch. If he can't hear you he can't work you.
In the case of a normal (non DX format) ragchew there is also a format that can be followed that passes a little more data, RST QTH rig and WX and then there is the wide open exchange of information. The formatted ragchew exchange again promotes a high likelihood of making a contact. In that kind of QSO an amp may not be necessary, but then again that kind of QSO may make it almost pointless to turn the radio on in the first place. Often if the signals are marginal the QSO is pretty much over after the WX report if it even gets that far. In the case of a real QSO however high power can be the thing that sustains the conversation. If he can't hear you he can't work you.
This article is basically just another QRPer justifying his puny weak signal with some sort of morally superior attitude, aka using the term crutch and implying the man who uses an amp is either a moron or a reprobate. Let's face it Mr QRPer: Weak is weak and you can't shine .... Spread the news to all QRPers. IF HE CAN'T HEAR YOU HE CAN'T WORK YOU, and if your so friggin' weak that it's too much trouble to hear you he won't bother.
73 W9OY
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W8ZNX on December 2, 2006
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ps
running a amp need not be expensive
for ten years ran a Hammond H-500
bought not running for $75
amp now use is a 40 year old
Hallicrafters Loudenboomer
single 3-400Z
cost me $300 not running
remember most older amps are dirt simple
think of them as a antenna tuner
with a tube and power supply
Mac
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KA1OS on December 2, 2006
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I think amplifiers have become like SUVs. The hoi polloi think they've got to drive one most of the time and it is not clear that it is always a rational choice.
I'm not sure I agree with the notion that using kWs for DXing reduces overall QRM. It reduces the number of repeat calls on the DX's frequency but raises heck with adjacent ones and bleeds over to other DX contacts. It's not like a DX station owns the frequency across the entire world. Often there are a couple DX stations in different regions on nearby frequencies. Amplified stations often 'overshoot' their target by huge margins.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by AE6RO on December 2, 2006
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One thing no-one has mentioned is the RF field exposure to yourself, your family, and the ever-lovin' neighbors.
Didn't that used to be a big issue?
The antenna is the most important, not how much RF you can spray in the near-field. And dare I say it? CW adds something like 8 dBs. And BEING DX should add at least 10 dbs to your signal!
So save the neighbors and the electric bill! Trash that shack heatin' amplifier! AE6RO
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Amplifier Crutches
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by N0AH on December 2, 2006
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Rambling??? I only missed one word. Rambling........ouch-
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Amplifier Crutches
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by N0AH on December 2, 2006
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W9OY
If you want to call me a QRP'er, I did a heck of a job earning my 5BWAZ....where is your wood plaque??? I have mine hanging above my Alpha 99...check the front cover of National Contest Journal Mar/Apr edition. That's me........this Eham article is not about mwah. It is about how hams feel about my questions- Where is Dr. Phil when you really need him- W9OY, you need him man, you need him- (brag brag brag brag brag..........)
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Amplifier Crutches
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by W4KVW on December 2, 2006
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ANSWER:GREAT antenna & a NICE amp since after all,"Life is to short for QRP"! }:>)God bless,W4KVW
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by AE6RO on December 2, 2006
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Why don't you just call the DX on the cell phone?
Or use VoI protocol? AE6RO
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KX8N on December 2, 2006
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"he who dies with the most toys is dead "
Yep, while the awards end up in the garbage and the gear ends up on eBay.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by N4MJG on December 2, 2006
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why would i need high power ? because i don't need them for one thing. some rigs have tubes like mine does ft-102, but 1 kw i don't see them need for them.
and depand where you are at, make a big different and what kind antenna you have. i can see 50 watts or 100 watts, but never 1 kw or 2 kw it just too much power for me. it just my 2 cents, everyone has a different view either running high power or not !
73
Jackie
KG4ORX
Website http://webpages.charter.net/kg4orx/
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K3EY on December 2, 2006
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I have owned many different amps both big and small. I also have so so antennas with no tower or tri bander using a lowly vertical and an inverted vee. I work the world easily at way less than 100 watts, including QRP levels. When I had an amplifier it was noisy and created way too much RF in the house and the neighborhood although beads and good grounding helped but with all the work required, it made playing radio more of a chore then fun.
I see comments on here and elsewhere saying something like--[to break the pile up I needed my amp].
So why did you need to break the pile up? Was it life and death? Was it an medical emergency or was it an emergency of another kind, an ego emergency?
To me amplifies should be outlawed and to see why I feel this way look at 75 and 40 meter phone where splatter is normal operating practice with people 10 miles apart running legal limit plus asking each other if they are 80db over S9, it’s sounds stupid, looks stupid and IMO is very stupid.
I don’t do contests either and feel they too should be outlawed because they ruin a perfectly good weekend of ham radio with all the splatter and walking over each other for 48 straight hours sounding very stupid and childish calling test test ets constantly for hours on end, asinine, again IMO.
Mine is bigger then yours. I built me up this here amplifier as he swallows his chewing tobacco in that slow hard to understand drawl. No thanks, no appeal for me in the least. I feel stupid for ever owning an amplifier because there are lots of other places to put ones hard earned money instead on my ego.
Hey…you wanted opinions, that’s mine.
Curt/k3ivb
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K7HJ on December 2, 2006
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"It's great not to have to pull some dubby out of the mud with his QRP junk".
My T-Kit 1340 @ 3 watts, and a himstick dipole does just fine, if you want to call it QRP junk.
I remember the days using the "High Power Junk", tell me whats the skill of DX with 1.5KW, it seems every one likes to talk, and no one likes to listen.
My latest purchase is a Ten-Tec Argonaut (20 Watts) high power for me, thats all I need for quaility QSO's and contacts. The only thing 1.5KW did for me was 3,000 logged 5/9 signal reports, and QSO's that lasted an average of 5 seconds.
I guess after working 20 years at 50KW AM radio stations, and 100KW FM stations, I'm not impressed with power. And I just can't stand listening to the W4's talking 20 miles with 2KW, telling me that the channel is in use, when I break from Washington state on 20 meters ssb with 5 watts QRP!
;-)
"Your twenty over nine...good buddy!" 10-9....Breaker!
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N2WEC on December 2, 2006
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Never need more than 50-100 watts. This holds true even on 144 and 50MHz (SSB/CW NOT FM).
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Amplifiers are like matches.
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by AI2IA on December 2, 2006
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Not everyone can be trusted to do the right thing with matches. Not every ham can be trusted to do the right thing with linear amplifiers. Just as there is a rightful place for linear amplifiers, so there is a place for courteous and responsible operating. He who rules himself rules more than a kingdom.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by K0PD on December 2, 2006
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Let's see if every thing is relative then our constitution has to be a living document.Ok now for my thought's on amp's, i personally feel 500 watt's is enough but i also have no reason to believe 1500 should be a problem. But like in all thing's that human's are envolved in there has to be a bully. Just like when i was in CB there was the op who had to have the loudest Mod and strongest signal, and i've ran into the same thing in ham radio.So there it is , does this mean every thing is relative???
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Amplifier Crutches
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by N4VOX on December 2, 2006
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rules say minimum power to make the contact, but in practice most hams use all the power they can find. everyone should be limited to 100 watts.
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RE: Amplifiers are like matches.
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by KD7YVV on December 2, 2006
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I think an amp is like a bicycle with training wheels.
Just my own opinion mind you, but where is the
challenge of making the contact if you key your
microphone and the other station's meter slams itself
into the red? There are times when an amp can be
useful, but to depend on one? To me, that's just poor
operating practice. I have a little Kenwood TS-430S,
an MFJ 993B antenna tuner, and a couple of hundred
feet of wire. It gets me into the WARTS Net on 3970
nightly and also the country cousins nets on the same
frequency. Do I have the strongest signal in the bunch?
No, but 100 watts seems to get the job done for me.
Then there's the challenge of working stations with
just that 100 watts. It would be nice to have something
like Art Bell's loop and the latest fancy radio and
microphones, with all the bells and whistles, but
even though I ride a two-wheeled bike today, there are
times I think back to a simpler time when I rode a
tricycle and realize, hey, whiz-bang latest may be
all the rage, but the older stuff still works.
--KD7YVV, Kirkland, WA
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RE: Amplifiers are like matches.
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by W8ZNX on December 2, 2006
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N2WEC
" never need more than 50-100 watts
even holds true on 144 and 50mhz ( ssb cw not fm )"
more bs
try telling the EME ops that
qrp is all relative
anything less than a few kw erp is qrp
just try building a antenna big enough
to run eme with only 100 watts to start with
and the only reason that
little gun eme ops make any contacts
is thanks to big gun ops
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RE: Amplifiers are like matches.
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by K3EY on December 2, 2006
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try telling the EME ops that
================================================
Good point, I mean everyone on the planet is bouncing signals to the moon and back asking what the temperature is over there using huge antennas and a billion plus watts...makes perfect sense to me, you got me there my bad.
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RE: Amplifiers are like matches.
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by K0ZN on December 2, 2006
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It IS "relative" !!
If you don't think an amplifier is NEEDED on the low bands when thunderstorms are active and you are trying to call a public service net or conduct real emergency communications, then you have obviously never operated below 20 M. Trying to work weaker DX stations on a poor path with a basic antenna fully merits an amplifier. Not everyone can put up a 110 ft. tower with big yagi's.
Conversely, listening to the "good old boys" on 75 M
who live 350 miles apart congratulating each other on their "45 db over" signals is amateur radio operating practices at its worst. Ditto the guys live 6 miles apart, have 5 element monobanders at 90 ft. and sit and chat on 20 M SSB with the plates in their amps glowing orange...they are "bottomfeeders" too...
There is nothing WRONG with amplifiers.... unfortunately, there are quite a few Hams who USE them them wrong!
73. K0ZN
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N2YZS on December 2, 2006
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Just remember, an amplifier might get you heard with a poor antenna, but you will not be able to hear others with a poor antenna (and the amp will do nothing for you in that situation).
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by G3LBS on December 2, 2006
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Most contacts are lost (i)changing bands, (ii) changing antennas, (iii) turning antennas.
Get high power amp, multiband antenna.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WA9SVD on December 2, 2006
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Propagation has to be the most important factor; if propagation is not good to a particular station, the best antenna and all the power in the (legal) Amateur world won't get you through. Next has to be antenna; a good beam antenna and 100 Watt transceiver can run rings around a poor antenna and a 1.5 Kw amp, any day.
But it's not JUST whether you USE an amp, it's whether or not you NEED to use the amp. If you have a poor or lossy antenna system, the received signal from that 1.5 Kw amp may not be any stronger than the 100 Watt rig working intop a good antenna with some decent height. But if propagation is good, and the antenna is good, many operators won't or don't need to use the amp, but feel they HAVE to. S-9 or 20 over isn't good enough; they feel they should be able to pin the S-Meter on the radio at the other end, and to HECK with anybody or everybody else that wants to work a particular station. Their ego requires them to be the LOUDEST (and sometimes the lousiest) signal.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by N0AH on December 2, 2006
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I'm just going back to use my cell phone with it's extra-long battery pack. It uses tubes, weighs 40 pounds- 8 foot whip antenna. At a gazillion GHz, I don't have to worry about QRM or thunder storms- You've seen the model. It's the one J.R. used in "Dallas" I have it hanging above my Icom Pro 3. You can see it on the front cover of "Bull Elk Hunter's Outdoor Strategies" magazine December 2002 edition. I had my latest trophy hanging on the wall-
EME, here I come!
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K6AER on December 2, 2006
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Paul,
Let me know when you want to sell your Alpha 99, crutch. I can relieve you of the awful burden and enable you to sleep at night knowing you will never be tempted in using power during a DX pileup.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by KE4ZHN on December 2, 2006
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Live and let live. If you like amps and run one, good for you. If your a 100 watt guy whos happy with that, good for you. If your happy with a tin can on a piece of string, good for you. Not everyone can afford a $50k station or have 120 ft towers with stacked arrays. Use what you have and enjoy it. Why are some amateurs always trying to dictate operating practices to the masses? I will use my amplifier when and how I deem necessary thank you very much. Im the one responsible for my ticket, not anyone else. As long as its within the rules of Part 97 then dont fret your little heart out over my use or nonuse of an amp. lol
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WL7CMG on December 2, 2006
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30 foot "random" wire antenna....$5.
2.5k Amplifier....$3000.
Having your amp blow up and now you can't talk across the street because you never got a better antenna......PRICELESS....!!!!!!......hi.
It's obvious.....you need an antenna to "get out"....an amp does nothing if you ain't got that. So where should you concintrate your efforts????
I'd give up my amp any day before I'd let go of my Quad...
73
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N3OX on December 2, 2006
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The 12dB boost you get from going from 100W to 1500W will make marginal contacts possible if the other station can't hear you.
That said, I've only had a couple dozen times ever in DX pileups where I really said to myself "boy, I wish I had an amp." Most of them were over the pole somewhere on 15m and probably running their full legal limit, and I was clearly below their noise floor. I'd call and they'd CQ over me. But, like I said, it's only been a handful of the DX QSO's I've lost and couldn't pin it on propagation or antenna.
I'm a tenth-kilowatt DXer all the way. I'm pretty committed to antennas first, power later, but I'll certainly buy an amp if and when I've got more money to spend on the hobby and I'm not 50 feet from all my neighbors.
Dan
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Amplifier Crutches
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by W0LD on December 2, 2006
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Let's give extra points if you run low power...the simple fact is that you not only have to hear people well, you have to be heard as well. Use common sense and use as much power as you need.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K6SI on December 2, 2006
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Life is to short for QRP.
More is better.
12db amplifer gain and 10db antenna gain gives you lots of ERP!
Ken K6SI
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KT0DD on December 2, 2006
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They can have my amplifier when they pry my cold dead hands from around it...Hi Hi... Amplifiers have their place. It's kinda like the gun logic that "guns dont kill people, people kill people". Blame the poor operator practices, not the amplifiers. 73.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by AA4PB on December 2, 2006
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A couple of things to consider:
1) An amp can increase *your* signal by a few dB but propogation can increase it by 20dB or even more.
2) An antenna can increase *your* signal by a few dB AND it can increase the other stations signal by a few dB.
I sold my amp about 15 years ago and have been running 100W or less ever since. The biggest problem with an amp can be RFI.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KA8OCN on December 2, 2006
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This always drives me nuts, sooner or later is always comes down to this persons reply.
"Everyone should be limited to what I think it correct"
If someone wants to run an amp "More Power To Them" sorry could not resist a little pun.
I have a amp, sometimes I want to check into a 80 meter net and it works so much better if net control can hear me! Where do I operate most of the time? On psk31 running a huge 25 watts, sometimes I cook my brain and run 50 watts. (It may do some good to cook my brain)
The best part of my amp is the glowing tubes when I transmitt it looks so nice, and in the winter it heats up my shack, oooh Post Tosties, I think I will move it to the floor and that way I can cook my brain and warm my feet.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by NS6Y_ on December 2, 2006
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I could never get away with running an amp around here!
I'm in an apt building and will have to be very stealthy......
so...... today I'm listening to the repeater and there's a convo on I think I can add to..... so I can seem to talk a a bit from in here, but not on the patio..... I decide to set up my Arrow Antennas 2m-440 ground plane antenna on this tripod I have..... I tried it out and it still did not work from inside the place here (don't laugh indoor antennas often work ok on vhf) and went out and did stuff for the day.... I got home and decide to take the tripod/antenna setup out on the patio, and um, well, maybe I'll raise it up a bit. seeing as the guy upstairs moved out.... I start elevating it.... did I mention this thing goes up 20ft? Pretty soon I have The Pride Of The Neighborhood going there, 20ft up, and I hook it up to my HT and I'm told my signal's great!
Would more watts have helped? Yeah, probably, take not really getting into the machine to full quieting and good audio and calculate the dBs, each 3 dB is a doubling right? So..... 5W - 10W - 20W..... 40W .... probably would have got in at the 25-50W level and been talking, but instead of having to go out and buy a high powered rig and risk earning the Worked Some Appliences award, I just optimized the antenna situation.
When the lady next door upstairs came over to introduce herself and ask me if I could set her up with free cable, I knew the jig, as well as my antenna, was up. I envision a twinlead j-pole up in the tree with the help of some nice stealthy brown string I have around here....
Antenna matters a LOT.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K8MHZ on December 2, 2006
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I am so far behind on my QSL cards with no amp and homebrew wire antennas I don't know what I would do with a 'real' station.
With 30 some confirmed countries in my first 14 months of HF'ing at the bottom of the cycle just imagine how much farther behind I would be if I had an amp!
So far I have over 300 bucks into postage using a 375 dollar rig and antennas made from leftover wiring.
Yeah, an amp and a real antenna would be cool, but I would have to win the lottery to be able to afford sending out all the QSLs and SASE's.
True story :)
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W8WZ on December 2, 2006
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It is nice to have an amp on standby when you are in a low power qso and someone else decides to use the frequency. Often, they can't hear the two qrp stations and even if they ask QRL? the don't hear the reply.
When that happens, it is nice to be able to send QRL with higher power, so that the station asking hears and QSYs.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K5UJ on December 2, 2006
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<<<One thing no-one has mentioned is the RF field exposure to yourself, your family, and the ever-lovin' neighbors.
Didn't that used to be a big issue? >>>
No, it is no longer an issue and actually never was except among the scientifically uninformed. What's amazing is how little thought hams who think a RF field is dangerous put into whatever analysis they bring to bear on the issue. you would expect more logic from hams wouldn't you? At the very least, the thought that many sw broadcast engineers have spent decades working at megawatt HF broadcast sites with no health problems. Hmmm.
Anyway, I see that I am probably going to go to my grave with this myth still being propagated around the world. I wasn't going to get involved with yet another troll topic but I have to speak out whenever I see the RF is a health hazard nonsense being promulgated. One more time: RF is nonionizing radiation. It cannot harm you at HF frequencies, and certainly not at any ham power level. I could tx a 1.5 kw carrier and camp out under my antennas for the next 30 years and die from all kinds of things such as a lightning strike or radon, but never RF.
I see what's next: Well, how come the FCC has all these exposure rules? The FCC lost whatever tiny kernel of engineering based logic it had years ago. All decisions are now made by lawyers and are based on politics, money, industry lobbying, congress in need of votes, and the FCC's engineers, who want to retire some day, are not going to attempt to stop this runaway train of stupid men in suits and ties. What is shameful is that the ARRL has meekly gone along with this sham.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K3EY on December 2, 2006
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Maybe RF has already done it nastiness as per your rant Robby.
Maybe Muslims will learn to love pork and treat women as scared beings too.
Maybe sticking your head in a live microwave is harmless too. Sorry my bad, not HF.
My point is simple: Belief is a very powerful mind control.
And you believe RF is harmless, OK.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WO0Z on December 2, 2006
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I've used amps very little. I have 175 lifetime 5BWAZ, but I'd have stayed nearer 150 or so had I not started using an amp on 80 meters.
From my QTH in Minnesota, at least, there's no serious alternative to an amp for some of the farther away points on 80. Especially over polar paths.
I worked VK9NS, barefoot, on 80 and also places like Madagascar. But, they weren't polar paths. I worked Mongolia on 80 and I needed every bit of legal power to make the circuit, and on CW at that. I'd judge there to be at least five other zones like that and the same six or so are just about as bad on 40. That's a big slice of 5BWAZ!
On the other hand, I don't see any need for an amplifier whatever when 10 meters is "hot" and barely ever for 15. The main need there would be for what I would call "medium rare" DX where the DX is there more or less permanently, works for maybe a half hour every couple of days, and so the pileups are always large and snarly.
I've had a little experience being the DX and I'd agree that if the antennas are good, 500 watts out is plenty to control the pileup, at least from the Carribean countries I've so far operated from.
And, I tended to work whatever was loudest -- I'm just not experienced enough to pick out whatever I felt like. By and large, this "loud first" idea worked OK -- the big strong stations were soon gone. But, of course, that makes the "amp" operator's point -- get there firstest with the mostest.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by WU5E on December 2, 2006
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As YI9E in Iraq having only 100 watts, is what I have to deal with. Last night on 40m I found a clear frequency and started calling CQ DX, and then you could hear the amplifiers key up more on that later. For years I worked DX from the states and wanted the big power the monster antenna. I drove my wife crazy spending money on this and that to make my signal better. Now last night I learn something being on the other side is something that US Hams should try sometimes it makes you feel humble. Operating habits make or break you with 100 watts. Being nice on the radio, don't take too hard when you don't make contact. I heard the amps key up and said my goodness is that what it sounds like everybody keys up at once.
Yes I plan on rebuilding my station in the US when I get back but the antenna will be the focus, amplifiers will be on the back burner
Jim
YI9E
WU5E
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W7ETA on December 2, 2006
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<So what good is the amp?>
An amplifier is a nice accessory (just like a computer, a store bought rig, or tower).
Come to think of it, I should turn my amps on to keep the electrolytic caps formed.
My rant, leaving the speech processor on instead of "as needed", followed by mic equalizers with horrrrrible audio---of course your audio is awful! You added reverb to the base!
73
Bob
PS: W8JI has a nice article on how to load your amp, plus other interesting info.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by KG6QHP on December 3, 2006
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You can't work DX without a good antenna. There is no doubt about that. However I look at an amplifier as a courtesy to those listening to me. Why should they have to put on a headset or fiddle with the dsp filter?
I also work QRP. With band conditions so poor antennas have to be better and more power applied to make up for the lack of solar flux.
I have an al-811 and I love it.
73,
Jim
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KY1V on December 3, 2006
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K9OY understands the need for an amplifier...
KE4ZHN understands the need for freedom of choice...
K3EY needs to be outlawed for having an absurd opinion and the gall to publish it...
It always amuses me when people think they know what I need better than I.
I can only wonder how many of you 100W dipolers worked the VU7 this morning...lmao!
I sure love the Standby button on my Acom 2000A!
KY1V
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KY1V on December 3, 2006
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Oh, I almost forgot...I can hear too!
Here is new the 40 meter SteppIR MonstIR stack at 6Y1V...
http://www.ky1v.com/40m.jpg
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by AA8X on December 3, 2006
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With all the restrictions on antenna, you must run high power to compensate. If my homeowners association would allow decent antennas, then I could run a 100 watts, but a restricted antenna system requires a lot of power.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KB9CRY on December 3, 2006
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Or is everything that I am saying hogwash and having a power amplifier is a wise necessity of any proven amateur radio operator?
Yes. Why did you have to even stir up this pot? Or is it that you're just a trouble maker?
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WO0Z on December 3, 2006
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Just double-checked. The fartherst I have so far managed in an easterly direction (aka Africa) without an amp is Namibia. But, I also worked Southern Australia barefoot on 80. That's not rare, but it is a long way from here.
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by WW5AA on December 3, 2006
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Lots of good points made!
However I sure am glad, and so were several other emergency stations , that I had 1500 watts while net control or assisting net control during Katrina and Rita.
Yes, you can get your 5-9...repeat your call and name report and smile at working DX, but if you like to converse with the DX on the low bands, 100 watts is not going to cut it.
73, de Lindy
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K3EY on December 3, 2006
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http://www.ky1v.com/40m.jpg
This guy needs committed for putting a [lot] into something like this, IMO of course. An eye sore so he can talk to some stranger on the other side of the planet for one minute, maybe receive a QSL and then brag about it...who is absurd? Who cares?
To each their own, to me you’re a very strange study with self esteem problems. To you I am a whack job, tis the world of amateur radio and it's freaks.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WR8D on December 3, 2006
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Build a good antenna system first. Everything we do is based around this simple fact and it matters not what the band is. We all know you can throw money at the wind especially now days with new rig prices. A 4k rig is'nt going to do a thing without a good antenna. When you've achieved the antenna, putting a fire to it's tail only makes it better indeed. I'm amplifier "poor" but i only run usually five to six hundred watts. Rarely a kw especially today with band conditions like they are just a little power helps maintain a readable signal on phone. Now for a some humor, if amplifiers are crutches, i must have both legs and both arms broke, and be blind in one eye. Lets all work at getting along like we used to. Be hams, not some twisted ignorant version of what some think they are today. We're rapidly falling apart at the seams, the brotherhood is hard to find nowdays. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays to you nonchristians, "God Bless". We all need that! John WR8D
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WR8D on December 3, 2006
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I forgot to add, Paul...you got them thinking, hi hi. Nice article. 73 John
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W0IPL on December 3, 2006
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I'll argue slightly with W0LD. In place of "use as much power as you need" I would say use -only- the power you need.
I have a nice SB220 amp in my shack that has not been turned on in four years. My choice.
I have "broken" pileups with 75 watts into a verticle simply by following instructions from the DX station. The one thing I have not seen written in this thread is LISTEN. I have had many nice conversations with DX stations. They stop the "599 tnx fer contact" runs and just chat for a minute or two, simply because someone listened to what they said and followed instructions.
I had an experience with one of the good ole boyz on 75M a few years ago. We had talked a few times in one week and one night he was bragging about his new am-plificator [sic] and how nice it was. After a little bit he said "Hey Pat, you seem a little weak tonight. How much power are you running?" I did the Ahhhh routine to get a somewhat steady reading and said "About 35 watts out." He suddenly could not hear me and requiered a relay.
Amplifiers have a place - about 10% of the place they are commonly used in.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by N0AH on December 3, 2006
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Who said I used paper QSL cards? All mine sent we're made by Fred Flinstone tied to Barney's back then shipped by DHL World-Wide service-It's not my fault that a lot of them came back paper-
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by NS6Y_ on December 3, 2006
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K3EY thanks for the nice 40m antenna photo, that guy has taste! That thing's beautiful! If I lived in that neighborhood, I'd be proud.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N6TZ on December 3, 2006
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QRO QRO
What is the matter with the Hams these days? The minute anyone mentions a kilowatt, you would think they committed blasphemy !
I have worked in broadcasting all my life, and a kilowatt is puny-power.
So let those that want 100 watts, be 100 watters, and those that want Full Power, be the kilowatters.
Let's just all do what we want to do. I don't get the point or the crutch of this posting.
Hal, N6TZ
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by IAMAHAM on December 3, 2006
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I like to use my amp on 75m with hifi audio. With more space on 75m I hope that more people will go with hifi audio.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by AH6FC on December 3, 2006
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Antenna is the most important, no question. But with a poor (relative) antenna that KW can make the difference between making that QSO.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KB9CRY on December 3, 2006
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And, a good antenna coupled with an amplifier all used by a skilled operator means QSOs. Why is this a crime?
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K6TLA on December 3, 2006
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I keep a couple of amplifiers around for those rare times when one might be needed. I guess my usage is rare because my SB-221 has the same tubes in it that were there when I bought it in early 1982. 100 watts or less is plenty adequate for most work most of the time. The seldom used crutch is nice to have sitting around just in case.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K3EY on December 3, 2006
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K3EY thanks for the nice 40m antenna photo, that guy has taste! That thing's beautiful! If I lived in that neighborhood, I'd be proud.
==================================================
See folks, just what I said....freaks
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K3EY on December 3, 2006
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California - 3rd generation
======================================
OK that explains it, give him a break not his fault
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W4EF on December 3, 2006
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Chosing whether or not to use an amplifier is just a system design tradeoff. Whether it is a good tradeoff depends on the other elements of the tradeoff. When I lived in Florida on a 1/2 acre lot with a high water table, I worked lots of DX on 160 with about 90 watts from my old Ten-Tec Paragon 585. Sure there were times that I could have used the extra 12dB of gain on transmit, but once I had a good radial system installed under my 160 antenna, I was able to work just about anything I could hear. Now that I am on a smaller lot in suburban Los Angeles, I don't have the flexibility to install a large radial system. I am also blocked by mountains in important directions and the soil here is dry and rocky. I am starting to reach the flat part of the curve for improving the efficiency of my 160 antenna. Additional improvements are getting more expensive in terms of time and money and with diminishing returns. The dB's of improvement that I get from the $700 that I spent on my Drake L-7 are by far the cheapest dB's in my system when you factor in the time and money associated with building my TX antenna, and I would even venture to say that the money it would take to get me from 1KW to 1500W (~2dB) would be more economical than the amount of time and money it would take to get an additional 2dB of gain from my antenna system.
Of course, some might argue that I won't gain anything by improving the EIRP of my system. I would disagree. I made a list the other day of the "ones that got away" on 160 meters. It was longer than I would care to admit. Each entry on that list is an example of a station that I could hear, that couldn't hear me. And I have a long list of QSOs where it was a real struggle for the other guy to hear me even though I was driving the living heck out of the L-7 (meters going where they shouldn't be allowed to go). So yes, in my case, having an amplifier is an indispensable tool towards my goal of working DXCC from the West Coast of the USA on 160 meters.
On the other side of the coin, sometimes conditions are good and you don't need the amplifier, even on 160 meters. I remember getting up one morning, turning on the rig and hearing a ZK1 on 160 CW. At that time, I had a 80 meter dipole at 27 feet in a Walnut tree matched through a tuner running a 90 watt exciter. My keyer was broken, so I called the ZK1 using the center pin of the RCA plug on the cable going to the rig's key jack by touching the pin to the case of the rig as a straight key. The ZK1 came right back to me. An easy QSO with an absolutely horrible 160 antenna and an improvised straight key (too bad they are all not that easy).
73, Mike W4EF...........................
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KT6K on December 3, 2006
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It's rediculous: 1000 watts?
I never use more than 900 w myself.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K3EY on December 3, 2006
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And, a good antenna coupled with an amplifier all used by a skilled operator means QSOs. Why is this a crime?
===================================================
Define amateur skill please: Maybe something like this-- what's the WX like over there my OM, how much does your rain gage say? Skill I thought was in the trades, not talking on [amateur] radio were freaks geeks and morons roam daily, where all are welcomed into the kingdom of radio land no matter the gray matter they carry on their shoulders.
Who said owning an amplifier was a crime? It’s not a crime to waste your money on RF boxes so you can hear your call returned from across the planet from a stranger in a foreign land who instantly becomes your friend. Listen on the bands, they are always saying [my friend], with so many friends all over the planet wonder why there is war? Maybe the same reason they invented amplifiers, to call each other names long distance without danger of taking a left hook.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W6TH on December 3, 2006
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.
I have only used my SB 200 amp, 500 watts, on 20 meters. The other bands I go barefoot with just 100 watts. The antenna and the operator does the rest.
.:
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RE: Amplifier Crutches (RF exposure)
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by W6RMK on December 3, 2006
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K5UJ wrote:
No, it is no longer an issue and actually never was except among the scientifically uninformed. <snip>
The FCC lost whatever tiny kernel of engineering based logic it had years ago. All decisions are now made by lawyers and are based on politics, money, industry lobbying, congress in need of votes, and the FCC's engineers, who want to retire some day, are not going to attempt to stop this runaway train of stupid men in suits and ties.<snip>
---
Actually, those rules have been around for a while, and are actually based on sound science, and are, for the most part based on the thermal effects (that is they are based on limiting the absorption to some number of Watts/kilogram). There have been small adjustments, particularly in the higher frequencies (>100 MHz) where the science of RF absorption has gotten better.
Yes, the limits are conservative. But, then, I haven't seen many hams do a detailed near field analysis of their system either, so maybe a conservative approach might not be so bad.
Cook yourself if you wish, but don't cook me, or more to the point, don't cook some poor bystander.
73,'rmk
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RE: Amplifier Crutches (RF exposure)
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by W4EF on December 3, 2006
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W6RMK wrote:
>>Actually, those rules have been around for a while, and are actually based on sound science, and are, for the most part based on the thermal effects (that is they are based on limiting the absorption to some number of Watts/kilogram). There have been small adjustments, particularly in the higher frequencies (>100 MHz) where the science of RF absorption has gotten better.<<
Yes, and the level of tissue heating that was deemed acceptable is based on behavioral changes observed in primates (Chimps I think). Something like average time to complete a familiar task that has food reward associated with it. I think the standards guys took this threshold level and dropped it like 10dB to derive the exposure limits. Fortunately, the human body is a pretty poor antenna at low HF frequencies, so the limits are pretty easy to meet on 80 and 160 meters even when you are running 1500 watts.
73, Mike W4EF.............
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RE: Amplifier Crutches (RF exposure)
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by WI7B on December 3, 2006
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RESPONDING TO N0AH'S INQUIRIES:
Assuming that your 1KW amplifier will give you two s-units more on the other station's meter over your 100 watts, (this scale quoted to me by two different amplifier manufacturers') is the emotional and financial attachment really worth it?
I DON'T OWN A 1KW AMPLIFIER, BUT AN AL-811 500W AMPLIFIER THAT I BOUGHT NEW FOR $549 (A $1.10 PER WATT). YES, IT WAS WORTH IT. FINANCIALLY AND EMOTIONALLY.
What is more important for making a contact in a pile up? Propagation, power, or your antenna. Please choose only one as the amplifier choice makes no sense-.
PROPAGATION.
With many of today's amateur radio amplifiers' having meter ranges going up to 2.5KW, what does tell you?
SOMEONE IS "RECORDING" FIVE TIMES THE POWER MY STATION IS CAPABLE OF GENERATING.
73,
---* KEN
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RE: Amplifier Crutches (RF exposure)
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by KA1OS on December 3, 2006
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"Life is too short for QRP"
At a recent hamvention, I noticed that the hams in the QRP talks were generally thinner and in better shape than the rest. I guess they're compensating by striving to live longer... ;^)
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Amplifier Crutches
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by N0AH on December 3, 2006
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HAL, N6TZ,
The point of the crutch was just that. I was curious to see how many hams simply would admit they have one to have one and not that they use it. My guess is due to inertia alone, due to the warm up time needed, 1/2 the hams with amplifiers don't even bother turning them on after the novelty wears off. But that's not me- I kill small birds on top of my MA5B all the time with my Alpha 99-
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RE: Amplifier Crutches (RF exposure)
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by W9OY on December 3, 2006
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I went to see Dr. Phil and this is what we came up with:
The FCC should put in true incentive licensing. A watt per question. Answer 5 questions you get to run 5 watts. Answer 100 you get to run 100. Answer 50,000 and you can be a shortwave broadcaster. You can stop at whatever power level you like. Heck if you can correctly answer 50,000 questions you probably know enough to actually run 50kw.
PS Dr. Phil turned out to be a dork.
73 W9OY
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Amplifier Crutches
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by KG6WLV on December 4, 2006
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My experience is solely with 6-meter DX, and VHF/UHF weak-signal modes, but I think an efficient antenna is the most important investment any ham can make.
The argument that an amp can make up for a poor antenna doesn't make sense to me. How can an amplifier help an HF receiver hear better? You still are hobbled by the poor antenna on receive. "If you can't hear 'em, you can't work 'em" is an old cliche because it's TRUE.
On VHF/UHF, many amps have antenna preamps to help out a poor antenna, but I don't believe most VHF/UHF enthusiasts would prefer an amp over a good antenna system. The idea is to balance your transmit range with your receive range. It's easy to get out with power; hearing weaker signals is much more difficult.
Using an amp on the lower HF bands is to some extent a necessity, because it is relatively difficult to build a directional antenna to focus your signal in one direction like one can on the higher bands (and create a higher ERP in the desired direction), but it's like any other tool; it should be used wisely. I don't use a John Deere to till my 400-square foot garden patch, but a 5 HP rototiller is nice...
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Amplifier Crutches
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by W8JI on December 4, 2006
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For MF and HF operation...
On higher bands, near the maximum usable frequency for a path, the limitation is the propagation and the wave angle. The antenna height and resulting elevation pattern of the antenna is critical.
On lower bands (far below the MUF of a path) noise and QRM are the limiting factors. In this case effective radiated power and receiving noise floor are both critical. Propagation is always there, the signal just drops below noise floor at the receiving site because of path losses.
So the answer, while people make it emotional or black and white, is it DEPENDS.
On ten meters I can gain the first 10-15 dB cheapest in the antenna, and the antenna helps on receiving.
On 160 meters, I can gain the first 10-15 dB transmitting ONLY with an amplifier, and the receiving antenna needs room....not height.
Some people claim they can work anything they hear while running 100 watts, but that probably means they really can't hear anything very well. Since they can't hear, they feel good about running QRP. Their system is a balanced short range system.
Some stations hear very well (low local noise floor), and the problem is others hearing them. Or they have poor transmitting antennas, but are in a quiet location. For them QRP is useless. They need power.
By the way, there is a very common MYTH about antennas. The myth is that a better antenna buys you the same improvement in receiving as it does transmitting. That is absolutely NOT true from 1.8 to 30MHz or even into VHF in many cases.
On receiving, propagated noise sets the receiving limit. Antenna directivity and nulling of noise compared to signal determine the receiving ability. It's all about the antenn apattern, NOT the antenna gain, when receiving.
On transmitting, ONLY the effective radiated power at the desired wave angle matters.
That is an important and clear distinction.
A better transmitting antenna is very often NOT a better receiving antenna. On 160 meters, it is almost NEVER the case that a better transmitting antenna is a better receiving antenna...or that a better receiving antenna is a better transmitting antenna.
The same is true for 80, and the same applies to gradually lesser extent as we move up in frequency.
Only on 20 meters and higher does a trend appear that a better transmitting antenna is generally a better receiving antenna.
As for QRM, the primary cause of QRM is the screwed up designs of the radios we buy. Transmitters are terrible, and close spaced performance of receivers (especially DSP based receivers without narrow crystal filters)is also generally pretty poor.
Because we don't understand how the radios on the desk work, we blame all things on power.
Here's a fact. My IC-706 or FT-100, 3 kHz above or below the transmitting frequency, generate 20dB more noise and crap than my better radios do at the same power level. That means if I ran a FT100 or IC706 BAREFOOT I would make 15dB more off-channel crap than running my Orion or modified FT1000's would do while running 1000 watts.
What you see is most QRP people buy these cheap poorly engineered radios with poor receivers and poor transmitters (or expensive radios with primary filtering in DSP systems that fall apart with strong signals), and then whine and complain about everyone else.
My own opinion is people should spend less time telling the rest of the world what they should do, and more time learning how radios work.
A better topic might be when are we going to fix the transmitters and receivers in all these radios?
73 Tom
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K4SFC on December 4, 2006
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I just could not pass this one up. I'm going to make a comment that some of you will disagree with and that's fine; "AMPLIFIERS ARE ONLY A CRUTCH FOR NOT HAVING A DECENT ANTENNA"!
And the down side is;
1. Way more splatter.
2. Have lots of 100 watt stations answering you that you cannot hear. VERY frustrating for us.
3. Wiping out QSO's running less power because you cannot hear them. If you were running 100 watts chances are you would not interfere with them, if you cannot hear them.
4. Making your non-ham neighbors mad due to RFI, thus causing Covenants/Deed Restrictions making life more difficult for the rest of us.
5. ALMOST NOBODY complies with the regs on power, which is; "to only use the power necessary to maintain contact". This pertains to band conditions, NOT HOW MUCH SPLATTER YOU CAN MAKE TO MOVE THE OTHER GUY AWAY FROM YOUR FREQUENCY.
In my opinion the rules/regs should be changed to read; 200 watts maximum unless it's EMERGENCY traffic. While I was a ham in Germany, the two worst countries creating QRM were the USA and Italy. I finally quit turning my beams in those two directions.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K4RAF on December 4, 2006
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I am not using the amplifier as a crutch, I am using it as a bat or flyswatter, depending on the rodent involved...
You need to run one if you intend to keep the turdwits away at least 3kcs. It is the reality of hands-off enforcement & intentional interference, night after night, just 1kc away...
Stupid is as stupid does so be careful or you'll shoot your eye out!
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N3OX on December 4, 2006
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"A better topic might be when are we going to fix the transmitters and receivers in all these radios? "
When everyone decides they'd rather spend $1800 instead of $600 to do casual hamming... or $3000 instead of $1400 for a higher end rig.
Uh-oh... maybe I'm wrong about price, but careful design costs money.
I think part of the problem is that people don't really notice on the higher bands until it's an aggregate problem, like when a contest pops up and there's a band full of "splattering" stations.
I bought an FT-857D because I wanted some V/UHF SSB/CW capability and portability and I've been using it as my primary home station rig since it hears a little bit better than my TS-440, but I get down on 80m and the RX just bites it (true also of the TS-440, but the '857 has a 300Hz IF filter + AF DSP to the '440's 500Hz IF filter alone).
I never previously noticed the RX deficiencies of the '440 in this regard, because I was DXing on the higher bands and wasn't trying to hear the 359 signal 1kHz away from a 599+40dB one. Rather, I was trying to hear a 319 signal on 15m with no other stations nearby.
On 80m, I have one of those "balanced, short range" systems you mention, Tom, but I also only have 60 countries worked on 80m, so I can live with it until I have more space and money. I can work loud Europeans and Africans on 80m pretty easily even at 100W, but when a pileup gets going the RX problems of a cheap rig like this become painfully obvious.
It's an important point. Amplifiers aren't the problem; amplifying a dirty signal and listening to a band full of loud, dirty signals with a lame receiver is bad news.
73,
Dan
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RE: Amplifiers
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by W9WHE-II on December 4, 2006
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Going from 100 to 1,500 watts when a contester rudely fires up 1 KC away.....priceless!
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WA9SVD on December 4, 2006
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It's not a matter of use or non-use of an amp, "per se."
It's more about misuse, and overuse of an amp. 1500 Watts into a dipole may have roughly the equal "radiated power" of a 100 Watt transmitter into a good beam at height. That's not an issue. The issue is that many times, SOME operators automatically use an amp, even when they would be 5x9+ (or 5x9x9+) WITHOUT the amp. THAT's when they become a problem for other operators, often causing splatter in addition, due to poor operation of the amp to begin with.
Yes, an amp CAN be a valuable tool, but it's use should be understood.
It's akin to using a 5 lb. sledge hammer to drive a tack to hang a small picture. While a regular hammer will do the job properly in the right hands, so will the sledge, but the sledge hammer can do a WHOLE lot more damage if not used carefully. Likewise, the regular hammer is a poor choice for breaking up concrete, unless there's no other tool at hand. And a good carpenter (or even a homeowner) will KNOW the proper use of each tool as REQUIRED for the job. NO MORE,, no LESS. The same principle SHOULD hold true for good Amateur Radio Operators. Konw the proper tool, or power level necessary to get the job done. No MORE, no less. (And not every QSO has to be "40 over." If the other station doesn't want to listen to or respond to "weak" signals, they are under no obligation to do so. And under poor propagation, even the "1500 Watt, tri-band beam at height" stations can be weak signals.)
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K1OU on December 4, 2006
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W9WHE spews...
"Going from 100 to 1,500 watts when a contester rudely fires up 1 KC away.....priceless!"
Jonathan, please share with us where this thread has ANYTHING to do with contesting. Or do you want to continue to look foolish by hijacking threads to advance your self-centered agenda?
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W8JI on December 4, 2006
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N3OX,
It's almost silly to imply performance has anything to do with cost.
FT1000MP's had terrible keyclicks, and the cure would simply be selecting different component values in the radio. Net cost would be zero.
The same is true for rigs like the FT100 and IC706.
On SSB, manufacturers would have a slight cost increase. They could not hammer transistors quite so hard for the same power level (unlike tubes, transistors need a lot of headroom to produce acceptable IM performance), and that might increase cost a few dollars.
The largest changes, both for receivers and transmitters, would cost nothing at all. It would simply involve picking better component values and rewiring some circuitry.
Instead of getting the facts what we have in forums like this is a bunch of people spewing misinformation. Look at the guys whining and complaining about splatter and power, while they run these little radios with square wave shape for keying. ALC induced splatter on SSB and pushing the transistors to the limit on some radios (both cheap and expensive) produces trash only 20-25dB below the main signal, while for pennies on CW and a few dollars on SSB the off-channel crap could be reduced by a magnitude of 100 times.
One thing that stands out when hot topics like this appear is how little people understand what the little box on the table does.
I'd sooner use a little cheap K2 radio and have people using K2 radios on either side of me driving 10 kW amplifiers than operate next to an FT100 or even a stock FT1000MP running barefoot.
It isn't an issue of power or cost, it's an issue of crappy radios and people not admiting facts.
Look at the PSK people. They run what is really an AM mode (the amplitude changes and then phase reverses on a carrier) through the poorly designed SSB sections of their radios, and they have absolute fits about co-channel QRM. They winge and complain and whine about anyone running more than ten watts to a wet noodle because the SYSTEM they use is so very poor.
It's really striking how the people using crappy radios and crappy antenna systems blame their problems on everyone else in the world.
Like socialism or communism, they want the rest of the world to join them in striving to be equally poor.
For a little elbow grease and pennies of investment it could all change, but that would require people getting off their butts and actually learning something useful instead of sitting around whining about something that is virtually meaningless.
They'd rather b*&^% about 10dB of power than 20dB of needless off-channel crap that could be fixed for what amounts to pennies.
73 Tom
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W9WHE-II on December 4, 2006
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WA9SVD writes:
"[amps] become a problem for other operators, often causing splatter in addition, due to poor operation of the amp to begin with".
Very true, especially when the operator doesn't understand how an amp works and how critical tuning is. But hey, if you support "dumbing down" the standards, then don't complain when we get throngs of new HF ops that think "more is better" and "all knobs to the right" is the way to run a ham station!
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W9WHE-II on December 4, 2006
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W8JI writes:
"For a little elbow grease and pennies of investment it could all change, but that would require people getting off their butts and actually learning something useful instead of sitting around whining....."
Well said.
Some people have an "entitlement mentality" wherein they think they are "entitled" to everything they want and "entitled" to have others (chiefly the government) provide it, upon demand. The only effort being required is that of incessant whining.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K1OU on December 4, 2006
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Guess Jonathan couldn't show us where the thread has anything to do with contesting.
Typical conservative. Ignore the facts.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K1OU on December 4, 2006
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W9WHE lamely asserts..
"Some people have an "entitlement mentality" wherein they think they are "entitled" to everything they want and "entitled" to have others (chiefly the government) provide it, upon demand. The only effort being required is that of incessant whining"
Seems that Jonathan is the one guilty of the whining. Be it the ARRL, liberals, foreigners, you name it.
I guess it is easier to point out problems than it is to be part of the solution.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by PHINEAS on December 4, 2006
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Amplifiers are just another cool but useless gadget to spend money on. If you really get down to it, do we REALLY need any where near the amount of stuff most of us have to communicate. Lets face it, you could communicate using a $30 CW transciever kit, a $10 antenna, and a converted laundry clip for a straight key. Big deal.
If one person can spend $500 dollars on enough gear to run APRS, why cant someone by and use an amplifier. What is the big deal? Better yet, spend 2500 dollars for an FT897 to have a portable station that will run on batteries.
If everyone ran their station the same, there would be no challenge. I frankly love it when I am talking to a station that is running 1500 watts and a TA-33...and all I have is 5 watts and a Buddy Pole, but the station is reading me at S9.
If you got the power, run it. If you dont, work with what you got. That is what living in this world is all about.
Phineas
K0KMA
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KB2FCV on December 4, 2006
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"Assuming that your 1KW amplifier will give you two s-units more on the other station's meter over your 100 watts, (this scale quoted to me by two different amplifier manufacturers') is the emotional and financial attachment really worth it?"
Having an amp is certainly a "nice to have" but I don't feel it's necessary. Since I have lived in an apartment for the last 8 years, I have been 'forced' to use QRP. With an indoor loop I work easily into Europe, Africa and South America. I do own an amp but it sits on a storage shelf collecting dust at my parents house. In the past I have found it useful in pileups.. it's certainly nice to flick that switch to put the amp 'in-line' and get them on the first or second shot but over the last few years I have been amazed by what you can work with QRP and a good antenna. My antenna is by no means good. A fellow clubmember routinely works 100+ dxcc countries during CQWW on 5 watts, a K2 and a simple dipole fed with ladder line.
What is more important for making a contact in a pile up? Propagation, power, or your antenna. Please choose only one as the amplifier choice makes no sense-.
Propogation is most important. You can have the biggest antenna running a full "gallon and a half" but with crappy band conditions it won't make much difference. Antenna is the next critical piece - an amplifier is further down the list.
With many of today's amateur radio amplifiers' having meter ranges going up to 2.5KW, what does tell you?
The amp is capable of running 2.5KW. I guess it tells me that you are stressing the amp less when you set the power output to 1 or 1.5KW
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N3OX on December 4, 2006
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"It isn't an issue of power or cost, it's an issue of crappy radios and people not admiting facts"
I don't think most know about the problem. Everyone tell a friend!
As for me, I'm eventually going to pick up a K2. I guess they got the transmitter right too. I knew the RX was a good performer.
Dan
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KA4KOE on December 4, 2006
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PRC1099 at 20 watts.
110' long dipole fed with 300 ohm twinlead, very efficient, portable spool homebrew type.
Works all bands 80-10 meters.
I can check into all the state and regional nets no problem. This is not my home station, just the rig for my jump kit.
YOU MUST HAVE A GOOD ANTENNA! Don't use a vertical for 300 miles or less, and don't try to work DX on a low dipole (less than 1/4 wavelength high).
The proper tool for the job is always a good guide no matter what the situation.
PHILIP
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by AF9J on December 4, 2006
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"If one person can spend $500 dollars on enough gear to run APRS, why cant someone by and use an amplifier. What is the big deal? Better yet, spend 2500 dollars for an FT897 to have a portable station that will run on batteries."
Ummmmmm, actually I have an FT-897D. It's not a $2500 radio. They list for about $850. If you bought all of the accessories (internal batteries, AT-297 auto tuner, filters, antenna, etc.), it might cost about 1500-$1600. I oughta know, I use mine for HFpack & pedestrian mobile stuff).
Jim, K8JI I hate to tell you this, but it is my MAIN radio. Yes it has its faults (which I can fully see [an engineering degree will helps to see them]). But you see, not everybody can afford to have the best. I like to do VHF & UHF weak signal stuff. I also like contesting. I'm still paying for financial hard times I suffered years ago, so I can't afford to replace the killer FT-736R I had to sell years ago, AND have a separate HF rig. Same holds tru for HFpack stuff. I can't afford to have a separate Packset. So, I make do with my jack of all trades. Like a jack of all trades, it's a master of none. But, I work (as best as I can) around its limitations, like I do with my old PIII Thinkpad notebook. Not eveybody can afford an Orion II, Ft-7800, etc. I'd love to improve my FT-897D, but it's still under warranty (and I don't want to void it), and will admit to some leeriness working with SMT components.
As for the amp quesion
- I have in the past used VHF & UHF bricks for contesting, but the last time I used an HF amp, was in the 80s, at the college club station. In my present living situation (an apartment building), I'd just be asking for trouble using an amp (even moreso than when I used to used big old Marshall and Mesa Boogie guitar amps, during my days of playing lead guitar in heavy rock bands). My landlady knows I do ham radio, but I operate stealth with regards to the rest of the building. With those thoughts in mind - I've never been really wild about them, but amps do have their uses. I mainly contest QRP, and do general operating QRP, or at less than 30W. BUT, if it takes more power to do the QSO, then I'm not at all averse to turning up the power. I've done this more than a few times for minor nets, etc. See, while you don't need more power all of the time, you do need it some of the time.
73,
Ellen - AF9J
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W8JI on December 4, 2006
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The ARRL after many years is now starting to publish clear indicators of relative performance in product reviews.
If they follow that and stay with it, writers of review articles won't be able to ignore or gloss over defects.
One of the largest things we face in the future are the CB and other solid state low voltage (12 volt) amplifiers being used on amateur bands.
The second thing is the CB mentality where people get inside a radio and reset the power limiting control. People fail to realize the power is limited because, unlike a tube, a transistor needs to be operated far below the saturated power level to be linear. My FT1000MP will run 150 watts out if I get inside and dick with the power settings, but it is marginally clean at 100 watts PEP. At 150 watts PEP, it is a very dirty radio.
So we have an education problem facing us. How to convince people to buy equipment wisely (and not buy a cheap 8 pill CB amp and run it from batteries) and how to teach people to NOT get inside radios and peak them up like they did with CB radios.
If people don't buy radios or amps that are dirty, manufacturers will have to clean them up.
73 Tom
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N3OX on December 4, 2006
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Tom if you take your '1000MP and turn the power down via the menu or power control to 50W, does it improve intermod performance?
If the currently dirty rigs could be cleaned up by simply running 1/2 or 1/3 power then maybe a decent tube amp that will produce a good bit of power with 30W drive is a way to REDUCE splatter and interference on the bands.
But what does the power setting actually do? If it is ALC based, I suppose it makes TX IMD performance worse.
Dan
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W9WHE-II on December 4, 2006
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How many of the anti-amplifier crowd suffer from "Amplifier envy"?
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KC8VWM on December 4, 2006
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"I don't believe most VHF/UHF enthusiasts would prefer an amp over a good antenna system. The idea is to balance your transmit range with your receive range. It's easy to get out with power; hearing weaker signals is much more difficult."
------------
True. Working weak signal stuff is not a simple matter of plugging in an antenna and pushing the PTT button like on HF.
Squeezing every last Db out of the feedline and antenna system right down to the number and type of coax connectors used sure helps to hear weak signals much better. Notice I said "hear" and not "transmit" better?
"However"
I can usually hear many EME stations at my QTH but that doesn't necessarily mean that using 50 watts from my transmitter is going to make any contacts regardless of how efficient my antenna system might be.
Now since I can't exactly put up 20 stacked Yagi's or install a NASA sized radio telescope in my backyard, a medium sized amplifier helps and makes the difference between being heard and contacting no one at all.
For a typical EME station setup, the "bare minimum" requirement is an amplifier that is capable of producing 165 watts or better. An EME antenna should be a highly efficient computer optimized Yagi antenna system exhibiting 18+ Db gain or better.
You "might" make 1 contact every 6 months using a smaller Yagi antenna exhibiting lower gain (Even when QRO) but it would be highly unusual to do so. Yes, it "can" be done, but maximizing the antenna system is everything in EME.
In addition, 99% of all EME stations usually install an ultra low noise GasFet receive preamplifier at the antenna. So basically, you need to install amplifiers both ways for it to even work at all.
Hardline is always used to minimize feedline losses at EME stations.
You basically have to squeeze every last decibel from your station to the absolute maximum if your intention is to communicate on the passive repeater in the sky. (Trust me, it's much easier said than done.)
Even after doing all these things mentioned which can often take you a considerable amount of time to do, you are basically still considered to be running a very weak QRP station by EME standards.
So you wan't to learn about antenna "efficiency"?
I have a renewed respect for what it takes to really understand what "efficiency" is all about since I got started working worldwide EME on V/UHF.
"EME - The Ultimate DX!"
73 de Charles
EME Station KC8VWM
EM89KW 144.127Mhz. Mode JT65B
Member: Moon-Net.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WI7B on December 4, 2006
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One of the most interesting experiments is to use DXtuners.com. I use the service (maybe too) routinely to check my signal RST before evening 40m and 80 m nets. I use receivers in Regions 6, 9, and 4. Without doubt, this is the best indication of immediate propagation conditions from my QTH to other parts of the country. I also put in or out my amplifier and measure the relative S-reading.
Perhaps unsurprisingly, the apparent signal strength with and without the amplifier varies between each receiver. On a typical evening on 40m, I see little differences with using the amplifier to Region 6. However, it becomes a quesiton of signal/no signal to Region 9 and Region 4. This is related to the specific propagation conditions and propagation pathways(s)..whether a signal skip or multi-path.
If one wants to see the effect of their amplifiers and DSP "up close and personal", I recommend DXtuners.com.
73,
---* Ken
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by NI0C on December 4, 2006
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"Assuming that your 1KW amplifier will give you two s-units more on the other station's meter over your 100 watts, (this scale quoted to me by two different amplifier manufacturers') is the emotional and financial attachment really worth it? "
No emotions involved here. My amplifier allows me to make QSO's under conditions that would make them otherwise impossible.
"What is more important for making a contact in a pile up? Propagation, power, or your antenna. Please choose only one as the amplifier choice makes no sense-."
A good antenna and/or an amplifier can sometimes extend propagation.
"With many of today's amateur radio amplifiers' having meter ranges going up to 2.5KW, what does tell you?"
This tells me that the resolution and accuracy for a 1KW measurement will be degraded from that obtainable with a meter with a lower range. That's all.
My speedometer has a range of 140 mph, but that has little or nothing to do with the actual performance of my car.
73,
Chuck NI0C
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KC8VWM on December 4, 2006
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People fail to realize the power is limited because, unlike a tube, a transistor needs to be operated far below the saturated power level to be linear.
--------------
This is a very, very good point.
For example many people don't realize that they are wasting money when buying transitorized amps on a dollar per watt scale. These are often advertised and sold on the market as "165 watts" etc.. but the reality is that they may only have a useful linearity up to 110 watts.
...Save your money.
Another good reason why I refuse to even consider any VHF amps made in "Italy" or those that are produced in the "Desert" and any other similar transistorized IMD trash.
Nothing lasts longer, sounds smoother or runs cleaner than a properly serviced simple old fashioned Amperex or Eimac equipped tube amp.
73
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Amplifier Crutches
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by N5XM on December 4, 2006
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Probably not, but a KW sure can bust the pileups. If were gonna split hairs, why do we even need 100 watts to communicate?
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W2IRT on December 4, 2006
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It was said up-thread a few..."Like socialism or communism, they want the rest of the world to join them in striving to be equally poor." Amen Brother; Well said!
A number of my friends in Toronto are of the opinion that "oh, those Kalifornia Kilowatts ruin it for everyone, who needs that kind of power" and other such bromides. Yet a little while later, when I describe my 70-foot crank up tower, C31XR yagi, AL-1200 amp and Mark V transceiver, they finally admit the truth of the matter "Oh my heavens, I couldn't possibly afford a station like that, eh."
They have their little trapped tribanders at 30 or 40' fed with five year old Radio Shack RG-8U (that they bought at a hamfest on sale), and are positively aglow when they work Slovenia or Bulgaria with their modest little 100W FT-101E or TS-440, etc.
The fact is, they can't afford to put up a real station (amazing what 65% taxation can do, eh?...and they wonder why I left!), and justify it by criticizing those whose successes in life and desires in the hobby have led them down the road to Alphas and stacked monobanders.
I used to run wires and 100W, and did OK with them. Better than OK, in fact. 225 or so, most of a 5B DXCC and WAZ on 2 bands and most of a third. But, I was always the last to work a DXpedition, often had to scream my lungs/fingers off for a QSO and was very lucky to get them on 2 or 3 bands. I went to 600W with an AL-811 and it became a few calls to get who I was calling, and life was good. In April I splurged on a legal-limit amp (AL-1200), and went from a few calls to mostly one or two calls, and I typically work ANY DXpedition within the first 1/2 hour of their going QRV when there's a propagation path between us. I also now EXPECT to work most operations on 8 bands and 3 modes (9 bands if I'm really lucky). Life is better <grin>.
I'd also challenge any stateside non-DX, non-rare-IOTA run-of-the-mill 100W/wire station to call CQ DX 20m and get a huge pileup of Europeans coming back, for a couple of hours on end, telling you you're the loudest signal on the band. And it's a nice feeling when you hear a rare DXpedition signal handing out 59s to every Tom Dick and Harry, you call and he starts ragchewing with you because he doesn't have to strain to hear your popgun pipsqueak signal. Been There, Done That, Ain't Goin' Back again, thanks.
Do I have an ego? Sure, and I'm very happy feeding it at regular intervals. But I'm not about to tell you that your 10W/wire station is crap, nor will I tell the guy who can afford a pair of 7800s and Alpha 87s and stacked arrays that he's foolish for wasting all that money. Likewise, I don't want to hear any socialist whining that I ought to play by someone else's rules just because he can't do any better than a 30 year old hand-me-down transceiver and a stealth wire in the trees.
I choose to work rare DX. I choose to contest. I don't choose to discuss failing health issues on 75 or play HiFi diskjockey on 14178. I've devoted a lot of my life and a lot of my money to amateur radio, and I expect to get a certain return on that investment; namely a nice loud signal to any place on the globe and decent scores in CQWW, ARRL-DX and WPX. A nice powerful amp is as useful a tool to me as an excellent yagi, a tall tower or a nicely-spotted sun.
73, Peter
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by G3LBS on December 4, 2006
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I am so jealous, but only to make you feel even better
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Amplifier Crutches
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by W4MEC on December 4, 2006
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As a Novice in 1969, I ran a single tube TX with 25 watts of input power. I moved up to a Heathkit DX60B as a General 6 months later, with a whopping 90 watts input power. I built an amp with a pair of 811's, with 300 watts in. I worked my way up to a Henry 2K about a year ago, 2KW in SSB, 1Kw CW. I own an amp because I can. It's fun to use, heats the attic shack in winter, hums, and glows and lets you know its doing something. It is part of this radio hobby, more a part of it than just about all the other entanglements(computer, internet hamming, etc).
Yes, there are folks who abuse the priviledge we have, and there are legal ways to deal with them. If you don't like our freedom to run 1.5KW out, then move to a country that only allows 400. Don't try and change the law to bring us down to what you think is enough. Feel free to apply that move to other countries when you don't like some of our Bill of Rights freedoms too.
Charlie in NC
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W4LGH on December 5, 2006
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(grin) W9WHE lamely asserts..
"Some people have an "entitlement mentality" wherein they think they are "entitled" to everything they want and "entitled" to have others (chiefly the government) provide it, upon demand. The only effort being required is that of incessant whining"
Seems that Jonathan is the one guilty of the whining. Be it the ARRL, liberals, foreigners, you name it.
<GRIN> the politically correct name for this is: "DEMOCRAT" ... hahahaha (couldn't help myself on that one...the door was left wide open!
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W9WHE-II on December 5, 2006
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Yes. You can allways tell the liberal democrats, they are the ones making the personal insults!
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Amplifier Crutches
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by K0RGR on December 5, 2006
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I've always been an advocate of low-power operation, but I'm starting to see the error of my ways.
The background noise levels on our bands are getting higher and higher all the time. We can take measures to clean up the mess and improve things, but in any environment, there is a limit to how quiet you get things.
Just a 6 dB increase in noise - nominally 1 'S' unit - means that incoming signals will have to be 4 times as strong to be heard on your receiver. You can compensate with directional antennas that both increase the strength of the received signal, and reduce the pickup of noise from non-favored directions.
A result of this is that if someone just casually tunes the band, there seems to be much less activity. Activity breeds activity. If there is no activity, people will assume the band is closed, or that there just isn't anybody on. Neither is healthy for ham radio.
If you want a real idea of how much is on the band, you need to listen with a decent antenna from a very quiet location, somewhere in the south-central part of the USA, far away from the auroral zone. If that doesn't describe your QTH, you're not hearing everything that's there. The only salvation for those of us near the aurora is shorter thunderstorm seasons every year.
I think we need to start refocusing on setting 400 W as the new 'defacto' power level for ham operations. The 1 S unit increase in signal strength will show a more realistic view of who's using the band. I know it will be difficult due to RFI problems, but we need to work on cleaning up our RFI problems instead of caving in to them. If it's clean at 400 watts, it will be cleaner at 100, in most cases.
The answer is still "antennas, antennas, antennas", and normally, the worst choice you could make would be to try to compensate for a crummy antenna with a 1.5 KW rig. All you'll do is ionize your neighbor's telephone and stereo. But I think that a level somewhat higher than the defacto 100 watts would help improve the quality of ham communications. Constant-carrier digital modes should generate less RFI than SSB.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W9WHE-II on December 5, 2006
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Many of the people critical of amplifiers suffer from "amplifier envy".
But do not blame them. Its not their fault. Its ........ "society's fault".
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Perfect Opportunity X-level flare!
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by WI7B on December 5, 2006
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Here's the perefect event to test whetehr having an amplifier is justified. We've just had an X-level event. A solar flare that has the capacity to wipe out radio commmunication for hours or days.
Check out the near real-time MUF map now. See all those red coutours. Try DX into regions covered by them WITH and WITHOUT your amplifier.
Good Luck!
---* Ken
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RE: Perfect Opportunity X-level flare!
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by K2WH on December 5, 2006
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Whenver I read one of these "Amplifier" postings, I always chuckle and grin knowing where the thread will go. It is just like the CW threads that go no where. I also am amused that alot of the respondents scream about the "Guy down the block" with the kilowatt. These people have no idea any station is running "Power" unless they were right in the operating room with the station.
K2WH
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Amplifier Crutches
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by K1CJS on December 5, 2006
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I see amplifier use articles and I read some of the posts on them. Some amplifier users have the right ideas, but others use them all the time. My point? Just this---Where did the simple enough to understand regulation: "Just enough power to make and maintain the contact" go? Its still there but some people just don't pay any attention to it. WHY??
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KL7IPV on December 5, 2006
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So you have an amp! Great, except that I can hear you now but when I come back to you, you wont hear me. It isn't just the power you put out but how much I put out as well. If I can hear you and don't run an amp, I have almost no chance of getting back to you. If that is the case, I wont be part of your pile-up. So the amp has diminishing returns. Unless EVERYONE runs an amp to be in the race, there is no race. Only those who run them are in it and those like me are not. So why try? A lucky shot? I found that running a good beam is more cost efective and doesn't cost me any more to run like running an amp. No thanks. No amp here. Never has been, wont ever be! Unlike a beam, amps wont ever help me hear better either.
73,
Frank
KL7IPV
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W7ETA on December 5, 2006
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Well.
The prose was good.
But, calling an amp a crutch didn't make much sense to me.
Asking if propagation, a beam, or an amp was more important, didn't make much sense to me either.
"Your audio is distorted."
"I turned my mic eq and processor off. Can you hear me now?"
;-)
73
Bob
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K1OU on December 5, 2006
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Per W4LGH...
"(grin) W9WHE lamely asserts..
"Some people have an "entitlement mentality" wherein they think they are "entitled" to everything they want and "entitled" to have others (chiefly the government) provide it, upon demand. The only effort being required is that of incessant whining"
Seems that Jonathan is the one guilty of the whining. Be it the ARRL, liberals, foreigners, you name it.
<GRIN> the politically correct name for this is: "DEMOCRAT" ... hahahaha (couldn't help myself on that one...the door was left wide open!"
Yep, Jonathan is really a closet Democrat. I wonder from which other closets he still needs to emerge?
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N3OX on December 5, 2006
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"Where did the simple enough to understand regulation: "Just enough power to make and maintain the contact" go?"
No one wants to get keyed down on... you know what I'm saying?
Dan
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KC8VWM on December 5, 2006
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"Just enough power to make and maintain the contact" go? Its still there but some people just don't pay any attention to it. WHY??
-----
Because they wacthed way too many Home Improvement episodes?
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by AF9J on December 5, 2006
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Reference my comment about owning an FT-897D:
"Jim, K8JI I hate to tell you this, but it is my MAIN radio."
Ooops! Sorry I got your name wrong Tom. I noticed it it this morning. My apologies. Well, back to work for me.
73,
Ellen - AF9J
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W4VR on December 5, 2006
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The only reason I run a kilowatt is to prevent tom, dick, and harry from encroaching too close to my frequency. Otherwise, 100 watts would do just fine.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by KG6WLV on December 5, 2006
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"The fact is, they can't afford to put up a real station..."
I had no idea I wasn't running a real amateur radio station. And neither did the hundreds of guys I've worked. Thanks for making that clear to me. Should I just mail in my license to the FCC, or you?
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N3OX on December 5, 2006
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"The only reason I run a kilowatt is to prevent tom, dick, and harry from encroaching too close to my frequency"
What's too close?
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WB2WIK on December 5, 2006
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>Amplifier Crutches Reply
by N5XM on December 4, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
Probably not, but a KW sure can bust the pileups. If were gonna split hairs, why do we even need 100 watts to communicate?<
::Best post in the batch.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K1DA on December 5, 2006
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Won't be long before those of us who can't demonstrate we own a "real station" may be relegated to obscure parts of the bands. Only way out will be to join the boutique amplifier of the month club.
Of course it takes a lot of overbearing overprocessed overdriven "QRO" to equal my salt water location into Europe, and that 300 degree ocean horizion doesn't produce any intermod.
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Some Amplifier User's Mental Crutches
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by AI2IA on December 5, 2006
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The FCC allows us to have and use linear amplifiers. The problem, when there is a problem, is with the radio operator and when and how he uses his linear amplifier.
A good radio operator will exercise a little more care when he uses the linear amplifier. The rule is easy to understand and easy to follow, if you remember to think about it: Use only enough power to maintain the communication in progress. Anyone who uses it all of the time or most of the time does not really understand or appreciate the purpose of the linear amplifier in the first place. This is why we ask for signal reports, and why we power down when we need to use less power. This is what each of us must do and forget about all those who don't.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K1DA on December 5, 2006
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Let me make the additional observation that when I was a kid just starting out and needing some part or another guys whose stations might fail the "real radio" test were the frst ones to dig into their tube stash or junkbox to help out. The "real radio" boys were too busy calculating the depreciation on their S lines to help a beginner.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KX8N on December 5, 2006
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The real problem is that too many people are obsessed with what "the other guy" is doing. It's like sitting there and fretting because you use a push mower while the guy down the street is on a riding mower. And it doesn't help when the guy down the street thinks he has a "real lawn" and you don't because of it.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KX8N on December 5, 2006
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The real problem is that too many people are obsessed with what "the other guy" is doing. It's like sitting there and fretting because you use a push mower while the guy down the street is on a riding mower. And it doesn't help when the guy down the street thinks he has a "real lawn" and you don't because of it.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KX8N on December 5, 2006
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Ha, sorry for the double! IE went wacky on me for a minute.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W4CNG on December 5, 2006
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Chris, you are a NO Code Tech, just what do you bring to this HF Amplifier article that is NOT already known to all of us ???? Sounds like a waste of electrons to me..???
Steve W4CNG
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W4CNG on December 5, 2006
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Paul, NoAH, I agree with you on this one. I use an an amplifier for my Attic Antennas to get back to the HF stations including DX stations. In most cases I can hear them, but with an indoor antenna up top, I need all the help I can muster for TX signals.
Steve W4CNG
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WI7B on December 6, 2006
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Another M-level solar flare and radio black-outs for the next few days. How are we doing without the "crutch" of an amplifier? How's recent QRP?
Anyone in the Northeast work Japan with 5 watts on 40 meters? I'd really like to know.
73,
---* Ken
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Amplifier Crutches
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by WA9JBM on December 6, 2006
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He who dies with the most toys did not plan ahead.
He who dies with no toys did not plan ahead.
He who dies, dies.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N1XBP on December 6, 2006
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Let me sum up this, and most every other article on eHam: "I'm tired of bad operators." Amps are not the problem, or contests, or whatever other nitt you want to pick.. The problem is when people a) don'tunderstand what exactly they are doing to other people on the air or b) don't care.
And those two things have nothing to do with their ERP.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by G3LBS on December 6, 2006
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I have built 5 amps and bought one. I had no fun from the one I bought other than taking it off the mailman (sorry mailperson), unpacking it and firing it up.
I had more fun coming to the USA and working Peter 1 Island SSB on 17 with a 706 and a G5RV.
I had more fun than either of these exploits when at the age of 71 last year I put up a G5RV for a local inactive, isolated W2 ham, aged 83, and heard him 59 next day.
Guess I am just a ****** Socialist !
Buffalo Gil W2/G3LBS
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WI7B on December 6, 2006
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Another X-level solar flare just hit. All RF communication upto 17 MHZ along the ecliptic is being effected and absorbed.
Anybody working on their QRP DXCC this week?
Personally, I find my amplifier both a good financial investment and emotionally stabilizing right now.
Wondering if the VU DXpedition is picking out some of those low-power signals to work? I mean, its a matter of choice right? They don't just want to work the "big guns" during a radio communications black-out do they?
73,
---* Ken
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W9WHE-II on December 6, 2006
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Speaking of good finincial investments....
My Alpha 99 is worth MORE today then when I bought it. That's alot more then I can say about ANY other piece of ham radio equipment I have ever owned!
Viva QRO!
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WA1SCI on December 6, 2006
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An amplifier is only one part of a "big" station. The other part is the antenna. TOGETHER, they make a TREMENDOUS difference in signal strength.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WI7B on December 6, 2006
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When your space weather for the past 24 hours has been strong:
*Geomagnetic storms reaching G1 level occurred. *Solar radiation storms reaching S1 level occurred.
*Radio blackouts reaching R3 level occurred.
Amplifier and Antenna - a team effort when all else fails.
73,
---* Ken
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K1OU on December 6, 2006
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WI7B posits...
"Personally, I find my amplifier both a good financial investment and emotionally stabilizing right now"
If your mental health depends upon whether or not you own an amplifier, let me suggest professional help.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K1OU on December 6, 2006
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W9WHE puffs..
"My Alpha 99 is worth MORE today then when I bought it. That's alot more then I can say about ANY other piece of ham radio equipment I have ever owned!"
Like the code practice oscillator you used when you upgraded to General? Oh, I forgot, you took advantage of the "dumbed-down" standards to upgrade!
Must be that conservative double standard thing.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WI7B on December 6, 2006
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K1OU,
HaH! Emotional. I was just respondong in the language of the article...
"Assuming that your 1KW amplifier will give you two s-units more on the other station's meter over your 100 watts...is the emotional and financial attachment really worth it??"
73,
---* Ken
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K1OU on December 6, 2006
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Ken,
Point taken. By listening to some people, an amplifier is like a Harley in the fact that is a male enhancement.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by VK2DX on December 6, 2006
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To an Australian, this topic is really hypothetical, as the legal limit in VK for SSB is 400 watts, and for CW, 120 watts. Needless to say, a lot of fun can be had with a lot less than these limits; I have.
Hello from Down Under, John
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KC8VWM on December 6, 2006
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John, how do we know that perhaps you are the one who is on top and mabey we are the one's who are down under?
Season Greetings to VK land de Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KASSY on December 6, 2006
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Is an amplifier worth the emotional and financial attachment? Sorry, sounds like a dumb question.
Used HF rig: $1000, covers all useful bands
Used tribander, tower, rotor (rebuilt), 5 yards of concrete delivered, permit fees, PE fees for legally-drawn plans, new coax: $1800, covers only 20-15-10, close to useless right now.
Materials to build two-element vertical arrays for 40 an 80 meters: $500
Used 2 X 3-500Z amplifier: $350.
The amplifier is the least expensive item in the whole station. Emotional attachment? I'm emotionally attached to the tower/yagi because it's pretty, and I'm emotinoally attached to the driven vertical beams because I designed them. I'm not emotionally attached to the amp.
When I'm trying to get through a pile-up and I call and call and call for 15-30 minutes, and it's obvious that I'm either going to be late for work or late to bed if I don't end soon, I can turn on the amp, and get them in 2-3 more calls.
I consider that time-savings quite useful.
"Assuming that your 1KW amplifier will give you two s-units more on the other station's meter over your 100 watts, (this scale quoted to me by two different amplifier manufacturers') is the emotional and financial attachment really worth it?"
For those of us who are into contesting and DXing, two S-units is enough to move us from one S-unit BELOW the noise to one S-unit ABOVE the noise. That is very often the difference between being heard and not. Particularly with propagation as it's been the past few years.
-k
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W4EF on December 6, 2006
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I think good antennas are a crutch. If your amplifier is big enough and the amplifier of the person you are trying to work is big enough, you don't need to rely on the cructch of having a good antenna. Besides amplifiers take up less space and don't require building permits (much more HOA friendly than big antennas).
Elmer Fudd
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K5FH on December 6, 2006
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Used HF rig: $1000, covers all useful bands
Used tribander, tower, rotor (rebuilt), 5 yards of concrete delivered, permit fees, PE fees for legally-drawn plans, new coax: $1800, covers only 20-15-10, close to useless right now.
Materials to build two-element vertical arrays for 40 an 80 meters: $500
Used 2 X 3-500Z amplifier: $350.
* * *
Please give us details of how you could get all that good stuff for that cheap, especially the two-holer for $350.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by KY7DX on December 6, 2006
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Interesting questions to throw out there sir.
I've been a QRP'r for most of my time on the bands. I love the challenge. 100w to my antennas was like having an amp.
I finally bought a killiwatt and it was cool for the few times I "Wanted" to be heard by a friend back home in Montana.
After it sat unused for a few months I sold it. Why?
To me, chasing DX is like hunting big game. If you are smart, talented and lucky, you can put a nice animal in the freezer--even with a worn out rifle or bow....which you can eat on all winter. If you work at honing your skills, you don't even need a scope or a rifle that can shoot 800 meters....hell a .22 works well if you can shoot and know where to aim (But tis illegal most places).
Now many people back home "Road Hunt"...meaning they drive all the logging roads till something walks across in front of them...jump out and shoot the animal. This is illegal, but people do it all the time. They might not be able to walk that well, might be in poor shape...OR they may not have the finances to devote to taking off work and paying the equipment and supply costs to hunt for an extended time.......OR they could be lazy-instant-gratification egomaniacs who want it RIGHT NOW with minimal effort.
Bottom line for me is that I enjoy the challenge of meeting the prey with most of my advantages removed. The elk has his senses, agility and a millenia of instinct on his side. I have my primitive weapon, my wit and my skills on mine. Sometimes I don't come home with anything....other times I do. This is the essense of hunting for me.
I approach radio in a similar manner.
Sure, I use electronics...nice electronics at that.
I use the best engineered antenna design I can manage and select the optimum location for it. I don't RFI the neighbors to death and they appreciate that.
I have spent hundreds of hours LISTENING and moments calling. I use my knowledge or radio and human nature to bag my DX. I don't turn on my kw when the DX station doesn't hear me.....I put the headphones down and return another time. I DON'T TALK OVER other hams!
If I can catch the DX early enough, I don't have to fight my way through QRM. If I am patient, most times I can catch a QSO toward the end of the pileup when the KW Kings have left....most times even get in a REAL conversation with the DX station. If not, no big deal. the DX aren't all going to be gone forever at the stroke of midnight.....they will return.
I've used my amp, which is simply another tool at my disposal when it was truly important to me that I be heard ie; passing info about a sick mutual friend, emergency traffic and when I want to end the QSO properly and sign off on the low bands when conditions deteriorate. I like to be polite.
Some want and NEED high power...some DON'T.
I don't hold the high power operators in any less esteem because they run power...that's their gig. I don't talk smack about QRP'r either because I'm not an insecure JERK who is easily offended and finds relief by slandering people who don't share the same views as myself.
My Ham plan for a QSO is:
Operate with intelligence
Operate politely
Build or buy the best "Antler" possible
Use my ears more than my mouth
Turn up the power when skill, luck and propagation desert me.
5 Band DXCC is not a matter of life and death--Having a good time playing radio is more important than my pride and ego.
The QSO is a conversation....and this "Hobby" is supposed to be a fun journey, not a brawl.
My opinion of course
Jim
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by NL7W on December 7, 2006
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When you combine large and great antennna systems and legal-limit power, you have the recipe for on-the-air SUCCESS and fun.
Life's too short for QRP and low-power...
73.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by XV2PS on December 7, 2006
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With 100 watts already crushed many pile up. On the other hand, people could hear me and I barely could hear them.
But I could not stand, I had to buy a linear. And yes, I get an erection when I see the power supply sucking 90 amps to feed it. I can't help it.... It does not change anything to my Rx....
I got a 600cc bike which I never pushed to the limit. I could not resist buying a 750cc.... but I enjoy pushing to the limit....
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N3OX on December 7, 2006
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"Life's too short for QRP and low-power... "
I've knocked down ~298 DXCC countries with 100W. I have more than 100 countries worked on each band 40m and up and I've got about 75 worked on 80m.
I really don't feel at a disadvantage in a pileup unless I'm down on 80m (or 160), but at this point, I can't HEAR much there either. When I get enough space and money to do so, I'm going to put up a good station for low band DXing, which as W8JI points out, needs legal limit power.
Now, I'm 27 and DXing since I was 16... I've had plenty of time and the peak of Cycle 23 to rack up the DX but I've got plenty of time to go, so I don't feel (yet) that life is too short for low power ;-)
Dan
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W9WHE-II on December 7, 2006
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N3OX writes:
"I've knocked down ~298 DXCC countries with 100W".
Congrats!
But think about those that "got away" and how much quicker you would have gotten each contact with another 12 db!
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WI7B on December 7, 2006
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I think Pierre XV2PS confirmed your thought K1OU. Hi Hi! I love ham radio!
Happy Holidays K1OU and XV2PS, hope to QSO with both of you
73,
---* Ken
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Amplifier Crutches
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by AB7JK on December 7, 2006
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I hope the space shuttle explodes tonight.
It will improve the ratings.
Katie Couric
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RE: Amplifier necessities!
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by W9WHE-II on December 7, 2006
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Most hams agree....if you wanna run with the big dogs, think about one of these:
http://www.alpharadioproducts.com/9500.asp
OR
http://www.qrotec.com/HF25m3photos02.html
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W9WHE-II on December 7, 2006
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AB7JK writes:
"I hope the space shuttle explodes tonight.
It will improve the ratings.
-Katie Couric"
Not even a horrible disaster can help Katie. She, like Air America, are destined for the ash heap of failed media ideas.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W2IRT on December 7, 2006
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Used HF rig: $1000, covers all useful bands
Used tribander, tower, rotor (rebuilt), 5 yards of concrete delivered, permit fees, PE fees for legally-drawn plans, new coax: $1800, covers only 20-15-10, close to useless right now.
Materials to build two-element vertical arrays for 40 an 80 meters: $500
Used 2 X 3-500Z amplifier: $350
How about:
Mid-level radio: $2500 or so (Pro-3 or equivalent)
70' tower (w/ fees): $10k+
Optibeam or Force 12 tribander: $1500+
WARC yagi: $600
40m yagi: $800
HELIAX/connectors: $400
mast/HD rotor: $1500
Alpha 9500: $8950
Working VU4, VU7, 3Y0X, KP5, and anything else in the first 10 minutes (assuming propagation to my QTH): Priceless.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by AB7JK on December 7, 2006
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Once we withdraw from Iraq and Bush is completely discredited and defeated what will we do?
Katie
We'll have to find other ways to pretend we care about America. I prove my patriotism hyping the sailors who died at Pearl Harbor. No one can say I am a complete traitor. America is such a wonder nation the way we celebrate our defeats.
Tom Brokejaw
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by AB7JK on December 7, 2006
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I play the shiney eyed, educated, well dressed, mixed race, suck-up to Ophrah candidate who pretends to love everyone.
As long as no one knows I am muslim, my middle name is Mohammed, and I love Malcolm X I will be fine.
Barack O Sama
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by AB7JK on December 7, 2006
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Let's face it:
Contests are noisy.
Ragchews are boring.
Pileups are tedious.
The bad hams are really bad and the good hams are phonies. So where is the payoff?
The only thing left that is fun is miliwatting!
There is the challenge to your operating skills, the contacts are more satisfying, and you can claim qsb and sign quickly if you are bored or get a phoney, and forget about the stupid contests and pileups. You can brush your teeth, walk the dog, or shoot some pool while doing it.
Like fishing, the fewer contacts you make the more fun radio is. Who needs to work Outer Slobolia anyway? It's not like you are actually there - you're just listening to sounds coming from a metal box. Who cares if you work 6000 countries? Nobody cares! When you are rotting in the ground who will say "Well he had 3456 countries but he could have had 3457"!!
Is that all there is?
YES!
Rosemary Clooney
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K1DA on December 7, 2006
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So WHE WHE is all lathered up because his ALFER 99
appreciated, eh, I can think of a bunch of ALfers using 8800 series tubes which didn't. BTW the old S line I restored a few years ago is stil appreciating, and it does a lot more things than an amp. The money spent making sure my son, KB1LJR, has a good solid car to use at the university gives me a whole lot more quiet satisfaction than whether or not I am a two fisted, work 'em before the others, phase noise generating, amplifier bashing, "you're a five nine, please repeat everything" - " you didn't call me but I answered anyway, -"EU only but I call him anyway because I am in a hurry "- " ask "what's his call" on his freq when he is running split -doesn't understand what "up 3" means- "I worked 'em all now I want a badge for my car" RADIO SUCCESS. Perhaps we ought to declare a "worked them all radio success cut off date" after which the radio successes could all QRT safe in the knowledge that none of the rest of us radio failures want to talk to them anyway.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by K6YE on December 7, 2006
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KY7DX wrote:
<My Ham plan for a QSO is:
>Operate with intelligence
>Operate politely
>Build or buy the best "Antler" possible
>Use my ears more than my mouth
>Turn up the power when skill, luck and propagation desert me.
>5 Band DXCC is not a matter of life and death-->Having a good time playing radio is more important >than my pride and ego.
>The QSO is a conversation....and this "Hobby" is >supposed to be a fun journey, not a brawl.
IMHO, the foregoing says it all and you are a very wise person, Jim. I have been a ham for 40+ years and due to economics ran qrp (15 through 100 watts) for 25 of them. I generally run 150 to 200 watts but do have a couple of HF amps on the ready when needed.
Semper Fi,
Tommy - K6YE
DX IS
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KASSY on December 7, 2006
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K5FH wrote:
"Please give us details of how you could get all that good stuff for that cheap, especially the two-holer for $350."
In ref to:
Used HF rig: $1000, covers all useful bands
Used tribander, tower, rotor (rebuilt), 5 yards of concrete delivered, permit fees, PE fees for legally-drawn plans, new coax: $1800, covers only 20-15-10, close to useless right now.
Materials to build two-element vertical arrays for 40 an 80 meters: $500
Used 2 X 3-500Z amplifier: $350.
* * *
What is it that puzzles you? I'm not very good at this stuff, being new to ham radio, I KNOW you can get things cheaper.
* The HF rig came from ebay for $600 and I paid more for some filters for it.
* The beam and tower, I told guys at a local DX club that I was looking and when a member went SK, I was affered the tower, rotor and beam for $500, got other hams to help take them down. It's just a small tower and mini-beam, nothing big. A bunch of club members went in on a big order of CQ9913 coax, so we got that cheap, and I got help soldering on the connectors. The tower is self-supporting, so there's no guy wire or anchor cost. Concrete is $60 to $90 per yard anywhere in the country plus $100 for a pumper truck to deliver. Permits in my county cost $20.
* Materials for the verticals were purchased brand-new from Texas Towers. EZNEC, at about $80, was used to model them. A half mile spool of aluminum electric fence wire costs $30, and I used four spools of them for radials. The phasing networks were copied from the ON4UN book, using copper tubing for inductors, and coax sections for capacitors.
* The amp came from another estate, was found torn apart on the benchtop, with some modifications halfway completed. Another ham in the club helped me remove the modifications after I bought the amp. It's a very ugly Heathkit SB-220, painted black, and peeling. So it's ugly...the difference between this amp's genuine 1.2kW and legal-limit 1.5kW is inaudible on the air.
I think power is a requirement right now. The highbands are universally awful and have been, most of the time I've been licensed. I have more countries worked on 40 than any other band (210), then 80 and 30 are tied at about 150 each. I did get some 70 countries on 20 during the last CQWW test, and made my first-ever 10 meter DX QSOs that weekend. The truth is, due to noise, power is required on 40 and 80. Of course only 200W is allowed for US hams on 30 meters (many DX hams enjoy a higher power limit on 30) and on that band I have but 100W. 80 meters, and 40 to a smaller scale, are so noisy that power is pretty much required, unless you LIKE sending your callsign over and over for hours. Although I do have a wire vertical for 160, I haven't gotten very good on that band, it requires special operating skills...I don't even hear the DX and if I could, I doubt I'd get very far without much power.
I've been a ham only 18 months, and have had the decent antennas less than a year. No way I'd have been able to get to these DX totals if all I had was 100W. It's all been exciting, and many of these DX QSOs have turned into enjoyable email friendships.
As I said before, I'm not even GOOD at the scrounging business. One guy in our club has a hook into the cellular tower business and is routinely finding "discarded" towers and 7/8" coax. If you really want to get a station together for a good price, your local DX and contest-focused clubs are your best friends.
-k
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N3OX on December 7, 2006
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"But think about those that "got away" and how much quicker you would have gotten each contact with another 12 db! "
That's just what I'm saying... there might be a dozen or two dozen attempts that stand out in my mind among thousands of DX contacts I've made and tried where they "got away"
Another 12dB probably would have made a few monster-pileup situations faster, but it's almost always the case that I get through a pile I want to get through.
As is obvious for technical reasons, this isn't true on 80m or 160m.
I don't disagree that there is an advantage to using legal limit vs. barefoot power... that 12dB would have been occasionally handy, but I'm not sitting at the radio for two hours listening to a pileup and tearing my hair out because I'm getting stomped by the kilowatts; I'm getting in, making the contact, and getting out just like everyone else.
The pileups that frustrate me aren't the ones where I call in the right place all the time and don't make it through... they're the ones where I can't figure out where to call. 3Y0X on 40CW comes to mind as a sort-of recent example. The pileup was 50kHz wide, diffuse, and raucous. Maybe if I'd had an amplifier I could have just parked on a frequency somewhere in there and just blasted through, but I'm not sure my stealth magnet wire apartment antenna would have taken the power, so I just have to be upset that I only got them on 30CW, 20CW and 40SSB ;-)
Dan
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K5FH on December 7, 2006
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>What is it that puzzles you? I'm not very good at this stuff, being new to ham radio, I KNOW you can get things cheaper.
* The HF rig came from ebay for $600 and I paid more for some filters for it.
* The beam and tower, I told guys at a local DX club that I was looking and when a member went SK, I was affered the tower, rotor and beam for $500, got other hams to help take them down. It's just a small tower and mini-beam, nothing big. A bunch of club members went in on a big order of CQ9913 coax, so we got that cheap, and I got help soldering on the connectors. The tower is self-supporting, so there's no guy wire or anchor cost. Concrete is $60 to $90 per yard anywhere in the country plus $100 for a pumper truck to deliver. Permits in my county cost $20.
* Materials for the verticals were purchased brand-new from Texas Towers. EZNEC, at about $80, was used to model them. A half mile spool of aluminum electric fence wire costs $30, and I used four spools of them for radials. The phasing networks were copied from the ON4UN book, using copper tubing for inductors, and coax sections for capacitors.
* The amp came from another estate, was found torn apart on the benchtop, with some modifications halfway completed. Another ham in the club helped me remove the modifications after I bought the amp. It's a very ugly Heathkit SB-220, painted black, and peeling. So it's ugly...the difference between this amp's genuine 1.2kW and legal-limit 1.5kW is inaudible on the air.<
I thought it might be something like that. I applaud your ingenuity and resourcefulness.
Now, if you had to buy most of that stuff NEW, figure about two to five times the cost for modern equivalents.
You were fortunate to be in the right place at the right time for the SK stuff. Most of us aren't that lucky so we have to pay retail.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by KE7AKS on December 7, 2006
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It seems to me that the BIG AMPLIFIERS have caused several hams to become BIG ALLIGATORS, every one hears them, crunching the pile ups, but they don't hear most everyone else. I really feel that GOOD ANTENNAS and PRE AMPS are just as important.
NICE ARTICLE! I am looking hard for a 2M 160W and a healthy UHF amp,...... hummmm seems like the power bug bites us all.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N3OX on December 7, 2006
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"PRE AMPS "
Not needed anywhere on HF, except for low-efficiency RX antennas on the low bands, like Flag/Pennant/K9AY loops etc.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WR8D on December 7, 2006
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Hey, don't be pick'n on alpha amps. There's a lot that say they're built like them. There's only one you'll see keyed up at Dayton for three days straight that puts their reputation on the line, and that's "alpha". I restored my old 76ca "three hole'r" with a new front panel and new paint job on the cabinet. I think i bought it back in 81, new. I put stiffer caps in the supply but didn't need it. Nothing at all has went wrong with this old baby and i've tried sometimes to run the guts out of it. My "original" tubes are still at full output, sure i got three sets of backups too for it. I bought a new 89 a few years back and wondered why i did that. The old 76 is a work horse. Nobody and i mean "nobody" can say anything negative about an alpha. "lol" just thought i better step in here and clear that up. 73 John WR8D
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W4EF on December 7, 2006
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WR8D
>>I restored my old 76ca "three hole'r" with a new front panel and new paint job on the cabinet. I think i bought it back in 81, new. I put stiffer caps in the supply but didn't need it. Nothing at all has went wrong with this old baby and i've tried sometimes to run the guts out of it. <<
It is possible to destroy the bandswitches, John. Just leave your 76CA at a club station for a while. Our club station went through two sets of Alpha 78 bandswitches. God only know what pathological conditions the operator(s) who never came forward subjected the amp to in order to cause that level of carnage, but it's clearly possible (I did the autopsy). Also, do you know of a plate choke mod for the Alpha 76/78 that allows for 12 meter operation. The 78 which is more or less a 76CA with tuning presets works great on 17 and 30 meters, but the plate choke will burn up if you try to use the amplifier on 12.
73, Mike W4EF...............
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WR8D on December 8, 2006
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Mike, there's a fellow i've heard about that is quite well known that does all kinds of mods to the alphas. I honestly can't recall his name but he does things like convert the old 76's to 800A7's and relay mods. Someone mentioned he did something about the chokes in them too. Just bring up a search engine and ask for alpha mods and it should take you right to him. Now i've just got to put this plug in for Alpha. I wanted to have some spare parts laying around for the 76ca. Years later way up in the 90's just before i bought the 89 i ordered just about everything on the power supply board. A few days later a little box came on ups. It was from Alpha. Enclosed were all my parts and a note that said "compliments of Alpha Power". no charge. Well i've never needed those parts and didn't blink an eye when i bought the new 89 from them either because i know i'll get the same service from it that i've gotten from my old 76. They honestly just can't be beat. The new ones are "idiot" proof too, hi hi. 73, John
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RE: But Captain I'm giving it all she's got!!!
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by WA9SVD on December 8, 2006
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by W9OY on December 2, 2006
This article is basically just another QRPer justifying his puny weak signal with some sort of morally superior attitude, aka using the term crutch and implying the man who uses an amp is either a moron or a reprobate.
--------------------------------------
No offense, bet I believe you take it the WRONG way. It's not so much an issue of using an amp when needed to be heard, but using an amy when it is NOT necessary.
There are too many operators that use their ampos no matter what. If they are already getting a 5x9 or 5x9+ signal report, why do they need to USE the amp for that particular contact? Yet time and again, many operators use the amp regardles of it's need. And THAT is what causes problems, interference, and splatter; many operators don't know how to properly run an amp, and feel if a "little drive is good, more is better" to the point they over drive an amp and cause undue problems. So the amp is only putting out 1350 watts instead of 1500. Is ANYBODY going to notice? Will squeezing the last few watts really improve your signal? Would even going to 2000 Watts (illegal, of course)improve your signal?
Amps are nice to have, for those that can afford them. But they aren't necessery for EVERY contact.
Yes, it's true, "If they can't hear you, they won't work you," and "If you can hear them and they can't hear you, an amp might help." But there are also many operators out there thet con't hear them, yet try giving a call during a pile-up anyway. And others hear them as loud signals thet don't respond to a DX when the DX calls THEM, because they can't HEAR them.
Ideally, receiver and transmitter abilities should be matched, so thst "If you hear them, they can hear you." applies. But with an amp. many operators can be heard far further than they can hear themselves. That's where only an antenna improvement will work, and an amp is useless.
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Amplifier Crutches
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by AB7JK on December 8, 2006
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With CW you don't need no stinkin' amp.
UH OH - TAKE COVER!!!!
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WA2JJH on December 8, 2006
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Remember when the legal limit was 1KW?
I cant stand those that brag of their $6000 3KW input amps to QSO with a friend 300 miles away. I guess one could always use the extra 500W to heat up the shack.
When I work DX on 20M, I find that most DX stations have beams, and try to run under 1KW. They tell you how high their antenna is above sea level. They come in 20 over 9. Many of the U.S. Hams working them are running 1500W, and do not get too specific on antenna.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WA2JJH on December 8, 2006
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No need to take cover. If one wants mucho DX, 100W of
SEA-DOUBLE-YOU and an inverted V is all you need.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by NI0C on December 9, 2006
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N3OX wrote:
"The pileups that frustrate me aren't the ones where I call in the right place all the time and don't make it through... they're the ones where I can't figure out where to call. 3Y0X on 40CW comes to mind as a sort-of recent example. The pileup was 50kHz wide, diffuse, and raucous."
Dan, I think you exaggerate a bit here. I was in there butting heads from the first day they were on and don't recall a 50 KHz spread-- 15-20 Khz, maybe, but not 50.
I did get them on 40 CW with 800 watts to a full-size quarter wave with a good ground system, but it wasn't easy.
I agree that figuring out where to call is difficult in these situations where lids keep coming back to every over of the DX. That's one reason for an amplifier-- so you have a chance of being heard over these clowns. Wait for the sunpot cycle peak-- you'll be working 15m, 12m, and 10m where propagation makes it difficult to find your place in the pileups.
73,
Chuck NI0C
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WA9SVD on December 9, 2006
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by N6AJR on December 2, 2006
He who dies with the most toys , WINS !!!!!
-------------------
With all due respect, Tom:
"He who dies with the most toys..." is DEAD, and wins nothing. (After all, you can't take it with you!)
(Half serious, half sarcastic, half philosophical.)
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WA9SVD on December 9, 2006
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by K6SI on December 2, 2006
Life is to short for QRP.
More is better.
12db amplifer gain and 10db antenna gain gives you lots of ERP!
Ken K6SI
-------------------
Ken,
It's not a matter of "More is better,," but a matter of "Is more NECESSARY?"
SURE, lots of ERP is "good," but not always necesary. If your signal report is "40 over" with the amp, do you REALLY need the amp? I think the real issue is use of more power than necessary because "it's THERE," not because it's needed.
And a comment was made , "As long as I'm within Part 97..." Well, besides ALLOWING 1500 Watts PEP, Part 97 ALSO states we are supposed to use the MINIMUM amount of power necessary to make a contact. So saying it's legal to use full power doesn't automatically mean it's complying with Part 97.
That doesn't mean you have to reduce power to just above the noise level at the other station; you should strive for comfortable copy. But too many operators use their routinely, whether it's needed or not, just because they CAN.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N3OX on December 9, 2006
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"Dan, I think you exaggerate a bit here. I was in there butting heads from the first day they were on and don't recall a 50 KHz spread-- 15-20 Khz, maybe, but not 50. "
Chuck, now that you mention it, I'm not thinking about 40m. I think it was on 20m where they were on 14023? or whatever and people were calling all the way up to 14085 or 14090. 40m was narrower but ridiculous. 20m was silly but later on in the DXped I managed to get through.
At any rate, an amp is good to have in an unruly, frustrating pileup, I'm sure... just kick it up 8 or 10dB and blast on through... it wouldn't have been a very good idea to run 800W into a 100 foot span of 30 gauge wire 10 feet away from my neighbors, though ;-)
Now that I've got a real antenna for 40m (40 foot vertical, good radials), I wouldn't have had any trouble, even barefoot, getting through on 40m.
The one I really missed out on from the apartment was K7C, but I can't blame that on power... I only ever heard them once for 5 minutes near sunrise, and never enough to copy... my antenna was up only 35 feet in a noisy environment...
Anyway, my experience so far tends toward the not-hearing-the-DX end of the spectrum, not the hearing-well-but-not-getting-through end.
This was true when I was in high school and my parents had a dead-silent QTH out in the woods half a mile from any neighbors and I had a full-size 40m groundplane and a tribander and was up on a hill. This was true when I was operating invisible antennas in an apartment, and it's true now at the rental house with decent but limited antennas... I always need better ears, and if I can hear it, I can generally sneak through the pile. Maybe it is because I operate 80% CW and so for given conditions to a given DXpedition, I get the same power spectral density as an SSB station running full legal limit, but I'm also competing with kilowatt CW stations, so... I dunno.
At any rate, for me it's going to be antennas, antennas, antennas until I feel like I need an amp, which is likely going to be when I have enough land to put up some Beverage antennas, a 90 foot tower, and a hundred 250 foot radials... for now, the landlord said to me "you can put up antennas, but doesn't that ham radio stuff cause interference sometimes? Make sure you don't interfere with the neighbors" so I'm operating under a slightly different set of rules than FCC regulations, and I'm going to stay low-power...
73 and may your signals be good copy, no matter how they get that way,
Dan
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Amplifier Crutches
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by K7RDX on December 9, 2006
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Do you ops (low power) enjoy straining your ears to try and copy the stations that would be Q5 if they were running higher power?Anyone can say how proud they are to be a qrp operator...Who cares?... QRZ DX...Life`s too short for qrp.Be heard&get on with your life..Jim K7RDX
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WB4QNG on December 9, 2006
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I have a 5kw amp that a good old cber built for me. When my radio is on my amp is on. Yea I get complaints that my signal is wide. I just feel you guys are jealous. When in a contest or in a DX pile up they come back to me. Most of time they say I am the only one they can hear. If you got it use it. I am just kidding. I own an amp. I think it is about 600 watts. I haven't used it in years. My antennas are now in my attic and I think a hundred watts is enough with them there. I always found with conditions were right I could work the world with 5 watts and a wet string. When conditions stink like they do most of the time now the extra 500 watts didn't help that much.
Terry
WB4QNG
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by NI0C on December 10, 2006
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N3OX wrote:
"At any rate, for me it's going to be antennas, antennas, antennas until I feel like I need an amp, which is likely going to be when I have enough land to put up some Beverage antennas, a 90 foot tower, and a hundred 250 foot radials... for now, the landlord said to me "you can put up antennas, but doesn't that ham radio stuff cause interference sometimes? Make sure you don't interfere with the neighbors" so I'm operating under a slightly different set of rules than FCC regulations, and I'm going to stay low-power...
73 and may your signals be good copy, no matter how they get that way"
Sounds like a good plan, Dan! I had my fun with 100 watts-- then purchased my first amplifier in 1997, after my country total had pretty well saturated. I still have fun with low power sometimes-- in fact I just completed the QRP version of the K2 transceiver.
Thanks for the good wishes, and 73--
Chuck NI0C
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N3OX on December 10, 2006
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"straining your ears to try and copy the stations that would be Q5"
If you're running low power and DXing, the proof is in the pudding... you got your call through the pileup, you must have been sufficiently loud to have been heard.
As far as stations that are weak when you're digging around for signals on the band, you just have no way of knowing whether or not they're running 20W into a G5RV or 2kW into stacked yagis unless you've got plenty of stations in their area of the world to compare to just then.
You will more often be able to have DX ragchews at full legal limit than at 100W or 5W, all other things being equal. When it comes down to it, though, you can never say "you always need the extra 12dB that 1500W gives you over 100W"
That's why the Part 97 rule to run minimum necessary power makes sense. Let's say there's a 60dB difference between the strongest and weakest signals one might hear on 15m when the band is open. That means if the strongest signal , maybe s9+10 or so, is from a 1500W station and the weakest signal is s0 but good copy, the strongest station would only have to run 1.5mW to be easily copyable. The other 1499.9985 watts are wasted on the communications path to the strongest station if you're talking about the minimum level of signal-to-noise you'd consider acceptable.
Maybe you want the strong station to still be armchair copy, so let's allow 20dB more power so they're 20dB above the weakest station's signal.
Now we're up to a whopping 150mW, and down to just 1499.85W of wasted power on that path. QRPp power levels would be just fine. The strong station can shut the amplifier off, set the rig to 5W, and be secure in the knowledge that they're 35dB above the RX station's minimum copyable signal.
The fact of the matter is that being s9+10 on a quiet band like 15m where the noise level doesn't move the meter means that an enormous amount of unnecessary power is being used. On the low bands where an s9+10dB signal from a 1500W station is just above the s9 atmospheric noise, well... that's a different story.
To say that weak signals are caused by a lack of amplifiers, though, is a little silly. 12dB is a tiny variation compared to the changes that propagation brings about, and it's a tiny fraction of a receiver's dynamic range.
I've had DX ragchews using five watts on 80m CW. It's a testament to the RX ability of the station on the other end, I'll grant that, but it was clear from the flow of the QSO that they could hear me just fine. No asking for repeats, signal report of 579, easy back and forth... I never had to go "BK BK BK" at the end...
Propagation was good, the other station had fantastic ears, I was ready to bump power up at any sign that copy was rough, but it didn't need to happen.
QRP is not the same as weak. QRO is not the same as strong.
73,
Dan
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W9WHE-II on December 11, 2006
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"QRP is not the same as weak. QRO is not the same as strong".
I disagree.
All things being equal, going from QRP (10 watts) to QRO (1,500 watts) is about 22 db. Thats an awful lot of signal. Its like going from a loaded, ground mounted vertical with no radials to a 4 element beam at 90 feet.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KC8VWM on December 11, 2006
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On another note, people who typically operate HF often refer to using 5 watts or less "QRP." Usually this is because ARRL contests have defined it that way for many years. Similarly, I have heard many people refer to ALL and ANY "barefoot" stations operating 100 watts or less on HF as "QRP" stations.
In addition, the use of a 250 watt amplifier for establishing VHF EME contacts is typically considered as QRP flea power compared to when using that same output power on HF in many instances. On the other hand a person using 5 watts output on 10 ghz. may be considered as QRO.
So basically the "interpretation" and use of the terms "QRO" or "QRP" is not necessarily measured in watts or even based on the use or lack of any amplifier use in itself.
73 and happy holidays to all.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W9WHE-II on December 11, 2006
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Yes, Charles. The definition of QRP depends on what the definition of the word "IS" is.
Thank you.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W9WHE-II on December 11, 2006
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Watching a QRP station try to break a pileup: free.
Snagging a big one on the 1st or 2nd call: PRICELESS.
http://www.alpharadioproducts.com/9500_development.asp
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N1SU on December 11, 2006
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Having an additional 10dB gain (1KW output from amp fed by 100W exciter) makes a nice difference when running digital voice modes like WinDRM or AOR.
I don't think of output power in terms of watts; I use the decibel.
A linear amplifier capable of a clean 11dB gain is relatively easy for most hams to acquire these days, a 12dB gain linear amplifer is not, given an equivalent level of linearity.
An amp that can produce 1200 watts of linear output is relatively easy for most hams to buy these days, but an amp that can produce 1600 watts of linear output is quite expensive.
I emphasize the word "linear" because most hams think their 1500 watt amplifier can produce 1600 watts with as little distortion as it did at 1200 watts.
At the end of the day the only thing that matters is decibels and the ratio of power on frequency vs. the power wasted as splatter. The ACOM amps have a metering system that lends itself well to tuning for linearity - you can ignore the linearity and tune for max smoke but the 200 watts of additional power is actually spurious junk that takes away from the center frequency.
Most guys would cry a bucketful if they really, truly understood that 1100 watts is nearly imperceptibly less than 1600 watts and far less noticeable than the effects of QSB and antennas swaying in the wind.
The key to big amps is their ability to produce legal limit output power with the least effort, to provide maximum linearity.
That's my two cents, anyway.
73 Jason N1SU
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K5FH on December 11, 2006
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N1SU:
>Most guys would cry a bucketful if they really, truly understood that 1100 watts is nearly imperceptibly less than 1600 watts and far less noticeable than the effects of QSB and antennas swaying in the wind.
The key to big amps is their ability to produce legal limit output power with the least effort, to provide maximum linearity.<
Amen, brother.
Let's take it from the top (or bottom, depending) in terms of dB:
100W to 200W = 3dB
200W to 400W = 3dB
400W to 800W = 3dB
800W to 1600W = 3dB
Because the dB scale is exponential you reach diminishing returns quickly. Using a typical 100W output rig to drive an amp to 800W out (i.e., Ameritron AL-811H) buys you a 9dB increase, or 1 1/2 S-units (figuring the standard 6dB/S-unit). Doubling your output power from 800W to 1600W only buys you another 1/2 S-unit, an almost imperceptible signal improvement under most conditions.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N3OX on December 11, 2006
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"All things being equal, going from QRP (10 watts) to QRO (1,500 watts) is about 22 db."
No kidding. But on an open upper HF band, all other things are NOT equal.
Two identical stations running the same power and identical antennas could easily be 40-50dB different in signal strength because of propagation... maybe 60, 70dB...
22dB is a drop in the bucket for the stronger of these stations over the weaker.
So if you're hearing VP2V at s9+40dB on 15m, maybe you can just leave the amplifier off. One might make the case that you're required by law to do so, given that you SHOULD have a reasonable expectation that the VP2V station could hear you at 10W or 5W or half a watt.
If the XW8 station over the pole is s0 and probably running a kilowatt, don't even bother with barefoot... get the amp tuned up!
- - - - - -
There are situations in which a couple dB of signal-to-noise ratio can make a difference between a contact and no contact. An amplifier is good for these situations.
I hear plenty of s9+30dB stations on, say, 20m, who are running full legal limit and that's not why we're allowed to run 1500W. If you can be s9 and well above the noise with 10W, why are you running an amplifier?
There is no technically sound reason for running 1500W to make signals 59+30dB on a band with s2 noise. The only reason to do it is cause you like being loud more than you like getting along with the guys on either side of your frequency.
Dan
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Amplifier Crutches
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by KD2E on December 11, 2006
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I remember years ago in high school track I would think "If I ran faster, I would win more races"..Then for a moment, I thought "Its not all about how fast I'm running, there are other factors involved...other ways of looking at how to enjoy the sport"....
Um...nope...its the speed thing...thats it.
So you do what you can with the antenna, everyone knows that. Then...the amp can only help. If two signals are calling the same dx station (or 50) all at the same strength, the amp will not hurt your chances.
Simple as that.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WA2JJH on December 11, 2006
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I would rather run 600-800W, then try to get another 2-3db out of my antenna system. I can then decalibrate the wattmeter to read 1200W when I am running 600W.
I save on energy and can dilude myself that I have 1500W :)
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Amplifier Crutches
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by N2AXZ on December 11, 2006
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I built my own 1500 watt amplifier because I wanted to learn about high power amplifiers from a hands-on perspective. My first job out of college was working for the US Navy in civil service in the VLF communications group in San Diego. I knew that I wanted to be a radio engineer since high school, and working with 1 million watt transmitters operating at 20 kHz was a blast. The look of a set of tubes glowing bright orange is a real turn-on!
I spent about eight years building my amp, over the weekends and in the evenings. It has been on the air for several months now, and I use it all the time, but mostly running about 300 to 500 watts. I use it all the time not as a crutch, but as a source of pride and joy because I built it completely from scratch. Signal reports that I get with it tell me that it is one of the cleanest amps anyone has ever heard --- no distortion or compression whatsoever.
It is most fun to use late at night --- I turn all the lights out in the garage and operate solely by the glow of the filaments and the plates! What could be better than high RF power............... :-)
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N3OX on December 11, 2006
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"I save on energy and can dilude myself that I have 1500W :)"
Sounds like a good compromise ;-)
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KASSY on December 12, 2006
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K5FH wrote, on December 7, 2006:
>I thought it might be something like that. I applaud your ingenuity and resourcefulness.
Now, if you had to buy most of that stuff NEW, figure about two to five times the cost for modern equivalents.
You were fortunate to be in the right place at the right time for the SK stuff. Most of us aren't that lucky so we have to pay retail. <
In reply to:
>* The HF rig came from ebay for $600 and I paid more for some filters for it.
* The beam and tower, I told guys at a local DX club that I was looking and when a member went SK, I was affered the tower, rotor and beam for $500, got other hams to help take them down. It's just a small tower and mini-beam, nothing big. A bunch of club members went in on a big order of CQ9913 coax, so we got that cheap, and I got help soldering on the connectors. The tower is self-supporting, so there's no guy wire or anchor cost. Concrete is $60 to $90 per yard anywhere in the country plus $100 for a pumper truck to deliver. Permits in my county cost $20.
* Materials for the verticals were purchased brand-new from Texas Towers. EZNEC, at about $80, was used to model them. A half mile spool of aluminum electric fence wire costs $30, and I used four spools of them for radials. The phasing networks were copied from the ON4UN book, using copper tubing for inductors, and coax sections for capacitors.
* The amp came from another estate, was found torn apart on the benchtop, with some modifications halfway completed. Another ham in the club helped me remove the modifications after I bought the amp. It's a very ugly Heathkit SB-220, painted black, and peeling. So it's ugly...the difference between this amp's genuine 1.2kW and legal-limit 1.5kW is inaudible on the air.<
I would say that I still disagree with you. As I said, I am not good at getting stuff used. There is so much horse-trading done on ham radio that there are some things that you should only buy new if you're filthy rich - amps and radios are at the top of the list. Antennas, used, are dirt cheap, and a bit of Scotch-Brite and attention to hardware and they're good as new. I was NOT "in the right place at the right time", I simply made friends with members of my local clubs, told them what I was seeking and was free with my phone number, and quick to reply when they called.
More stuff is sold used than new - it's not hard to find. I actually don't know a single ham who bought his rig or amp new...not one. New antennas, yes...they're expensive to ship, so you pretty much have to find a local deal. But rigs and amps? Haven't seen anybody who bought one new.
-k
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K5FH on December 12, 2006
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KASSY said:
>More stuff is sold used than new - it's not hard to find. I actually don't know a single ham who bought his rig or amp new...not one. New antennas, yes...they're expensive to ship, so you pretty much have to find a local deal. But rigs and amps? Haven't seen anybody who bought one new.<
You must live in a different world than most of us. In 36 years of hamming I have rarely seen the scenario you describe; it is by no means as common as you make it sound.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WA2JJH on December 12, 2006
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An amplifier IS a crutch to some.(not a very good one) To others, it is a tool that one can be used by those that really know ....Right tool for the right job.
My final buck 380(2 cents ) of my usual literary trash!
Happy holiday season to all. Remember if you must drink and drive...use a heliocopter. This much less traffic up there ;)
73 de MIKE WA2JJH
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Amplifier Crutches
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by AC0FA on December 13, 2006
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I use my amplifier to help Communicate with a QRP stations and mobiles. All thought some HF mobiles manage to do very well. The typical mobile station I have encountered on HF that sticks out in my mind. That required me to turn on the 1500w amp. Was in a car with 100w an a comprise antenna. He was not hearing very well. Any 40M HF vertical restricted to use in a moving vehicle. Seems to be a comprimise.
Of course Antennas are number one at my base station. If you can't hear em you can't work em.
At this point in the solar cycle when conditions are generally poor. The total (Link Budget) or total power required between two stations to communicate is much higher.
It would take a heck of a solar flair god willing but just as an example.
If the conditions requires a link budet of 1000w.
Two stations with similar antennas and 500w amplifiers could communicate.
It follows that two stations one with 100w and one with 900w could communicate.
It just depends how much money you want to spend in YOUR SHACK to make up for a POOR ANTENNA or a DEAF RIG at the OTHER HAM'S shack.
My last point. If the mobile Ham slides off the road in the middle of a blizzard and bends his poor excuse for a 40m HF antenna. Your LINK BUDGET just went up to may be 1500W. You can hear him calling for help but he can't hear you. You reach over flip on your 1500W linear and ask for his location.
As hams thats what we do.
Yes I agree amplifiers can be misused for obnoxious and selfish reasons listed in previous posts above, but SOME of those DX contacts are DX EXPEDITIONS operating in the middle of the pacific on 100W and prayer.
Erik AC0FA
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by N5EAT on December 13, 2006
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Most of the hams I know who use amplifiers never come near a contest nor DXer. They run 1500 watts for their local everynight ragchews. I heard one gentleman remark several years ago "if you can't break my squelch - i'm not going to talk with you..".
These are the same guys who are obsessed with their audio quality. They NEVER stop fiddling with their audio settings in a never ending quest to sound better than someone else. These people bought Icom IC-7000's and sent them right back when they found a setting which made their audio sound bad. I never had that problem because I never adjusted my audio - and I still get great audio quality reports.
I suppose using an amplifier is nice during these lean years of the sunspot cycle, or if you're really interested in DX or contesting. Or if you have a particular love for a daily net which is almost outside of your radiation pattern.
As Alan K0BG says - mobile HF operation proves that QRP is not dead. Hundreds of us make thousands of hf contacts daily using "crippled" antennas and 100 watts or less. So if you want an amplifier - get one. I've been a ham for 22 years and I have nearly purchased an amp several times. There are some times when all the operating skill in the world won't replace raw power. Those times are thankfully rare, but it is a reality.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by NI0C on December 14, 2006
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"Most of the hams I know who use amplifiers never come near a contest nor DXer."
Sounds like you're running with the wrong crowd.
"There are some times when all the operating skill in the world won't replace raw power. Those times are thankfully rare, but it is a reality."
Not as rare as you might think. I've made lots of lowband QSO's where signals were at the noise level at both ends-- requiring power and operating skill at both ends.
73,
Chuck NI0C
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WA2JJH on December 14, 2006
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<<<< I heard one gentleman remark several years ago "if you can't break my squelch - i'm not going to talk with you..". >>>>>>>
N5EAT, I have heard the very same LID a few times. He is the dude that tries to talk like a DJ, and thinks he is Jean Sheppard!
Many Hams graduate from CB and with time become excellant Hams. Some, you can tell they have used their rigs for freebanding first, then got a ham ticket. He is on this 20M net...right?
He puts down others, and has a few one liners that are only funny to his crew.
Hope the FCC yanks his ticket.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WA2JJH on December 14, 2006
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<<<< I heard one gentleman remark several years ago "if you can't break my squelch - i'm not going to talk with you..". >>>>>>>
N5EAT, I have heard the very same LID a few times. He is the dude that tries to talk like a DJ, and thinks he is Jean Sheppard!
Many Hams graduate from CB and with time become excellant Hams. Some, you can tell they have used their rigs for freebanding first, then got a ham ticket. He is on this 20M net...right?
He puts down others, and has a few one liners that are only funny to his crew.
Hope the FCC yanks his ticket.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KC8VWM on December 14, 2006
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N5EAT, I have heard the very same LID a few times. He is the dude that tries to talk like a DJ, and thinks he is Jean Sheppard!
-----------------
I always thought he sounded more like Ted Baxter myself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Baxter
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WA2JJH on December 14, 2006
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Every TV station I worked for had a Ted Baxter
Back to radio. A single transistor superegen rx got good DX with no selectivity.
I built an old radio shack 5 bander. Fet pre-amp. Superegen detector. Worked OK.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KT1B on December 15, 2006
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RE: Amplifier Crutches Reply
by K6AER on December 2, 2006 Mail this to a friend!
Paul,
Let me know when you want to sell your Alpha 99, crutch. I can relieve you of the awful burden and enable you to sleep at night knowing you will never be tempted in using power during a DX pileup.
-----------------------------------------------------
That is mighty selfless of you K6AER. We need more hams like you.
Anyways, great post, got quite a chuckle out of it. 73 Merry Christmas.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W4LGH on December 15, 2006
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Well Santa brought me a NEW crutch for Christmas!! Did I need it...NO...did I want it...Yes! Is it fun to play with...YES! Is it a subsitute for a Big StepIR
up @ 100ft.... NO! But then the StepIR doesn't have that nice GLOW of 3-500's!
Just all part of the hobby, and is nice to have when you need it. There are times when it really makes a big difference, and times when it is not necessary.
"Please use your RF Powers responsibly" <GRIN>
73 and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!
de W4LGH - Alan
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Amplifier Crutches
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by N4VOX on December 15, 2006
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Today I was listening to two hams talk on 20 meters. They each complimented the other on how clear they could hear the other station. Immediately one ham said well i'm putting out a 1,000 watts let me move up to 1,500 watts. He then started transmitting and said his signal had gone way up over the 1500.
Now they were having a perfectly clear conversation and so why in the world would he add more power. It is rediculous that they were even using a 1000 watts.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by WA2JJH on December 16, 2006
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Alan, that stepper mast is a great XMAS present.
How did santa put it in the sock above the fireplace? ): + :) + ;). The tree would by a hard fit too :) (Unless you have a tree the size of the one at
"30 rock" NBC/Rocky-feller plaza.)
All humor aside. 100 feet above ground, wow!.
In fact I have worked countless DX hams that used less than 500W and were 20 over 9. Most of them had a shack with a 100 foot stepper and only 200W out of the YEASU FT-1000(200W version).
I also love the bright orange-yellow glow of a pair of 3-500z's. As soon as I fix and modify my HL-2200(A late date Heath SB-220. Nice wood brown face plate instead of Exorcist puke green) I run it with the original EIMACS. I get a maximum of 700W. Not too bad for 20 year old tubes and running the amp on 110VAC.
Nothing wrong with running a 1500W amp with 500 clean
Watts. I do intend to get the new more efficient 3-500z's and add a few Harbock PS mod.
However maybe one year I will use the EIMACS just for heating the shack. I will have to find an extra filiment tranformer for my 3-500 shack heater. I then should be able to get 1000W with the new tubes.
It is simply impossible to get more than 1000W out if one runs the amp on 110V.
The SB-220 was designed as a 1200W out max amp. However many found that with Graphite 3-500's and work on the power supply...1300-1400W was easy to acheive.
One Ham claimed he got 1800W(DUMMY LOAD for legal reasons) out of a pair of 3-500Z's. I doubt the claim.
Perhaps running 3-500's on 4200V and using a 300W radio to drive them. Either way illegal to use on air and he will not get anywhere near the 20 years many have got out of a pair of EIMACS.
Congrats on the psuedo stepper. Keep them fire bottles warm. -N- Merry Xmas to you and yours.
Perhaps with 100 feet of height, I can work you again
on the SPG net better than the last time.
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by G3LBS on December 17, 2006
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I am all for you putting out high power and buying expensive sensitive receivers and high directional antennas.
Then I will be able to work you on my cheap homemade equipment.
W2/G3LBS Buffalo Gil
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by KC8NTP on December 18, 2006
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I will start off by saying: When I first got my general license I wish that I had more than the "little" (800w)Ameritron amp that I did. I used to use 75m & 160m quite a bit back then, and even with a slopping zepp @ 40' on 75m, an inverted L with 30 full-sized radials on 160m, and the 800w it was hard to make contacts at times. I also know that 800w to 1500w is a little less than a 3db improvement, but it could have helped a little.
I will also say, I never had problems on 40m up with the small amp, and hardly ever used it above 40m. However, most of this took place at a time when the solar flux was above 180 almost every day, and was in the spring time in Michigan with thunderstorms within 200 miles almost every day. Amateur radio is full of variables, just like everything, so using an amp is dependent on them.
I have worked Europe from Michigan on 10m SSB using as little as 125mw and a dipole, but I have had to use 800w and a 6 element yagi to work Austraila. I have also used the same 6 element yagi and amp to work backscatter all over the midwest, which 100w would not have done it at most times, although it worked great some times - again, the variables that I was talking about.
I will say, however, I know that some people cannot be trusted to use an amp responsibly, and these people ruin it for the rest of us, but when needed I do not consider an amplifier a "crutch"; ERP is relitive, and when more is needed I will use what I need to be heard and no more than this - I thought that good operating practice was to use no more power than needed to maintain a contact!
That's just my $0.02 worth.
John, KC8NTP/7, east central Nevada
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by W4LGH on December 18, 2006
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Quote:~~~"Congrats on the psuedo stepper. Keep them fire bottles warm. -N- Merry Xmas to you and yours.
Perhaps with 100 feet of height, I can work you again
on the SPG net better than the last time."~~~
The amp ('er Crutch) was easier to hook than putting a StepIr up 100'! (grin) Man that would be nice wouldn't, it. A Big StepIr up @ 100'!! One day maybe.
I enjoy playing with amps. And I like GLASS bottles that you can see! Those Eimac metal/cerimac tubes are nice, but no FUN! Dull dark and drurry like transistors...other than heat you don't know they are working.
By the way, the SPG Vintage Net is still going on. We have moved it to 3pm eastern (2000hrs). Still on 14.289Mhz. Come on down and JOIN us! I need to build an amp with a pair of 4-1000's behind a glass door so you can see them!! Pipe the heat out the top with forced air into the attic! Yea thats the ticket!!!
73 es Merry Christmas!
de W4LGH - Alan
Main site: http://www.w4lgh.com
SPG Net Info: http://www.w4lgh.com/vintage_net.htm
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Amplifier Crutches
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by VU2PEP on December 21, 2006
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I had a reg sked with w2onv, Kc4pe and the gang on 14.178 mhz for almost 6 months last year starting from
Oct2005 till March 2006 running abt 100 watts into a home made 3 el yagi on a 22 ft boom, 75 ft agl.
Most of the reports were 9+ . We made the sked almost
every day. 100 watts or 1000 watts just makes a 1- 2 S
point difference. Concentrate on the Antennas. They
make better Crutches and an AMP HI !
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Amplifier Crutches
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by VU2PEP on December 21, 2006
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I had a reg sked with w2onv, Kc4pe and the gang on 14.178 mhz for almost 6 months last year starting from
Oct2005 till March 2006 running abt 100 watts into a home made 3 el yagi on a 22 ft boom, 75 ft agl.
Most of the reports were 9+ . We made the sked almost
every day. 100 watts or 1000 watts just makes a 1- 2 S
point difference. Concentrate on the Antennas. They
make better Crutches than an AMP HI !
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RE: Amplifier Crutches
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by K8OT on December 21, 2006
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Well here's my 2 cents.
Have I got an amp yup an old Thunderbolt. do I use it yup once in a while.
Now ask me when I enjoyed Ham Radio the most.
Well it was when I got my Novice Ticket Back in 1970. I had a S76 Hallicrafter Rcvr and a Globe Xmtr. BUT I bought a 5 EL 15 Mtr. Gotham Beam "remember them?" paid $48 I think. Got enough Alum for the 5 elements, and 2 pieces of TV mast. no matching. it said to just space the elements even on the boom. use a hose clamp and hook the coax out on the driven EL move it until the SWR was good.
got out my trusty ARRL Handbook and redesigned it. used a 26 ft. boom, came up with my own dimentions and used optimem spacing, and a Gama match. put it on a 20 ft mast on top of me 2 story house.
I never ran over the 75 watts input we were allowed. Well I proceded to work the world. WAC, WAS, 85/75 countrys worked in the 2 years I was allowed to have my Novice ticket. when time ran out I went to Detroit and came back with My Advanced license.
I later checked that old Globe Xmtr and found with 75 watts in I was getting 15 watts out. didn't need a big amp either.
OH I forgot I was running CW.
73 ED K8OT
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