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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs

Lawrence J Maso (NU4B) on June 2, 2007
View comments about this article!

DX'ing at the 5-watt level can be challenging in the best of times. But when a new comes on the air it's hard to avoid the DX bug. The Swains Island DXpedition offered one of those times where even the little pistols might have a shot at a rare entity. Having missed a Peter I Island QSO by my own bungling, I wasn't sure my station or I was up to the task. Add the progress of the current solar cycle and it became apparent there was a good chance this wasn't going to happen at NU4B.

To be in the QRP DXing game you have to be ever optimistic. The first days of the DXpedition were out. Once this "most wanted country" got on the air the bands were going to be a zoo for a while. Work was heavy also, so my attention could not be on ham radio. If I were to ever have a shot, it would come at the end of the operation.

As the final Wednesday came I became ill with a cold/virus going around. Between work and sneezing, I was not a happy camper and in no mood to get on the air. The next evening my QRP DX buddy, NV4G, called and said he worked N8S both on 15 and 17 meters. Wow, a great tip. I turned on the rig and unbelievably I could barely here N8S on any band. -- Certainly not enough to make a QSO. I think the term "ESP" was appropriate in describing what I heard. How did my buddy work these guys -- on two bands?

One important thing to note is that we essentially have the same set up. Both of us were using an ICOM 703 at 5 watts out and a Carolina Windom Short 80 antenna. My antenna was actually much higher in the air. The only difference was the orientation on the antennas. My buddy's was oriented in a direction that put KH8/S broadside to his antenna. Mine was 90 degrees off. The results were startling. Not only could I not make a QSO, I couldn't here much of anything to make a QSO with. With the final weekend approaching things were not looking good.

My next thought was to try 40 and 30. Like a trooper I got up in the middle of the night, miserable with a cold, only to find both bands with unworkable conditions. (Most of these unworkable conditions were man made.) With time running out, this really looked like another Peter I Island for me. Just thoughts of what might have been.

As Friday evening rolled around the solar flux sank even lower. However, N8S was coming in on 17. I could actually hear the exchanges. I knew this was my chance. N8S was at the point of calling CQ many times to raise contacts. I tried and tried and I could not get Swains to hear me. To add more insult I heard QRP station after QRP station work into N8S. When I called nothing - not even a "?". They had no idea I was there.

As my mood went from elation to depression (compounded by the fact that my buddy worked them not once but twice) I was about to give it up. It was at that time I thought about the Butternut HF5B sitting on the roof. I rarely use the antenna, since I find the windom works so well. I hadn't tuned it up in a few years. It survived heavy windstorms. In fact in one storm the wind picked up the patio umbrella, pulled it up over the house, and sliced one of the antenna guy wires causing the antenna to collapse. I did nothing to it but replace the rotator and raise it back up really to get it out of the way. On 17 meters it's nothing more than a dipole anyway -- but it is rotateable, hmm.

I had recently reconfigured my shack and took the rotator box out since I wasn't using it. Then panic set in. What did I do with the rotator control box? I found everything but the rotator control cable. Finally after digging through a box of cables I found it. After everything was hooked up, I swung the antenna around and yesssssssss -- N8S's signal picked up dramatically. After a few minutes trying to find out where they were listening, I gave it a shot and that sweet sound of code came back -- NU? Well that was certainly an improvement, but I was hoping for a little more. A few exchanges later the QSO was complete. I was in the log and I bet the only ham to get a 559 (I'm sure a generous report) as a signal report.

Many DXers think us QRPers are a bit crazy, but the fun is in the challenge. You win some and lose some. In this case, as with the majority of rare activations, the N8S ops were top notch. And I thank the op I worked for hanging in there. That's how I worked Swains, how about you?

In the meantime, as soon as the weather clears, I think I might tune up that HF5B -- just in case.

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by ARRLBOOSTER on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Thank you for the effort to post an article. I gotta keep it real, though, dog. The posting reads like a boring page from a daily journal. You have good writing technical skills, just work on the content. Thanks.
 
Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by ZL1AIH on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Ric Jensen - thank you for your critique of NU4B's article.
>Thank you for the effort to post an article. I gotta keep it real, though, dog. The posting reads like a boring page from a daily journal. You have good writing technical skills, just work on the content. Thanks.>

Have you ever thought about a career in PR? Perhaps a publishing conpany? A rejection slip from you would be very inspiring.
Ken ZL1AIH
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by W2RDD on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Nice positive article full of enthusiasm.

As fellow QRPer, I can appreciate your excitement.

73
 
Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by W1YW on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Nice. Congrats on the choice DX!

You guys should remember that it's not the POWER going to the finals in your rig that counts, but the ERP at the low launch angle of the DX. That means even a few easy changes may dramatically increase your signal strength:

1) if you are using a hor pol antenna (such as a dipole) raise the center (at least) as high as you possibly can. Getting it at least a half wave high gives you profoundly better ERP at low launch angles, compared to having it at 1/4 wave (or less) high;

2) Coax isn't forever and it gets lossy with time. Since you can use cheap RG 58 replace it every couple of years. You can pick up a dB or more in this way;

3) Shine up the feed connections at the antenna. You get some loss from corrosion there.

4) Don't use trap antennas. Each trap looses you a dB or more for most commercial ham antennas.

73,
Chip W1YW
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by AH6RR on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I have looked but I could not find a Cushcraft HF5B anywhere. Did you mean a MA5B? If so I can belive you as it is a fine antenna that works outstanding for it's size.

I got N8S on 10,15,20 & 40 but they are in my back yard

Good story by the way.
Roland AH6RR
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by K7UNZ on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
AH6RR...try looking under Butternut....HI!

Jim/k7unz
 
Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by W8KQE on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
QRP is a blast, no doubt. Way back when in the 70's, when I got started in Amateur Radio, our high school in Jersey had an HW-7 and an SB-102. I found myself using the 'Hot Water Seven' a lot more than the 'Sugar Baker One O Two'. My best QRP QSO's though were a few years ago, where I made some 10m SSB contest contacts to Europe (from Ohio) using a 5 watt, 'Spitfire 454' 'AA cell' powered walkie-talkie (and a base loaded whip) while standing in my driveway! THAT was pure fun.
 
Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by WL7CMG on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
COOL...!!! Try, try, & try again!!!.....hi. I finally worked Peter 1 from Alaska when I could barely hear them. If I remember I was using the 2 el. quad and about 700 watts. I can't even imagine your qrp patience at this time in the cycle. I also have to agree with 10m qrp being crazy. During the last peak, 5 watts produced 5/9 + 40 over from Alaska to the east coast. All kinds o' fun!!!...hi. Sure looking forward to that again.
73...
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by N2EY on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Great story! Here's another one:

I've been in almost every CW SS since 1968. In all those years, I never even heard a YU/NWT station - until a couple of years ago.

I was on 20 meters with my K2, running QRP, of course. It was Saturday evening and the band was fading fast.

Then I heard an enormous pileup down near the low end. Under it all was VY1JA.

He was working them as fast as he could, (and make no mistake - that guy is GOOD!) but the pile just kept growing.

I called several times, but in a pile like that, it wasn't likely I'd get him before we ran out of time.

Then what does he do but send "QRP ONLY"!! Gave him a quick buzz and made the QSO. Of course, 99% of the skill was at *his* end, not mine. He worked a bunch of QRP ops in rapid succession, then went back to all-comers.

Besides being a nice guy, he was being a really sharp op. He probably knew that if he didn't work the East Coast QRP folks soon, we'd become unworkable. But the higher-power folks would be workable somewhat longer, so he could keep his rate up by making them wait a little. Izzat slick or what?

btw, the antenna I used was an 80/40/20 inverted V with coax feed (~50 feet of good RG-8X) using homebrew 40 meter traps. The traps don't waste much power, because they don't heat up when tested at the 100+ watt level, and show high Q when tested on a Q meter.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by WA8MEA on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
In the 37 years I've been hamming, I've learned the following:

1) Vertical antennas are NOT more noise prone than horizontal antennae. After all, power-lines are not vertical....
2) NEVER use a tuner with on an antenna fed with coaxial cable. Your signal WILL SUCK!
3) Some of the best antennas I've ever run were end feds with the insulated wire running straight from an L-Network tuner. But that was either QRP or back in the days of the tube radio. If you tried that today with solid state xcvr's, you'd have RF running through your shack and into your under-shorts.
4) Inverted Vee's run so friggin' good I can't hardly believe it!
5) Grounding. You just never know! Sometimes grounding does more harm than good. Other times more good than harm.
6) On any given Sunday, my Inverted Vee or vertical will outperform your log periodic. And it's because of these three simple words:

Propagation, propagation, propagation!

73, Bill - WA8MEA
http://HamRadioFun.com
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by K8MHZ on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
QRPers and bow hunters have much in common.

 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by K8MHZ on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"6) On any given Sunday, my Inverted Vee or vertical will outperform your log periodic."

But Monday through Saturday the $1400 log kicks a wire antennas butt.
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by N3OX on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I think it would be interesting to compare the DX success rates of two stations with the same big antennas and same 5W power level, but one where the operator had been told they were QRP and another where the operator was convinced (by a nice box of glowing tubes that groaned and dimmed in time with the keying) that they were running big QRO....


Dan
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by W6TH on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
I run qrp quite a bit and find with five watts the most fun. I also found that there really is no need for more than 35 watts with a good antenna. With 35 watts output I have been working FLA, West Coast and Europe, using an end fed 33 foot wire in my bedroom and my famous "L" Network. If eHAM will enter my pictures of my "L" Network I will run an article on how it is made and performs. I tried before with a smaller network and pictures that screws on the back of your transceiver, but was never published.

W6TH/1/qrp.

.:
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by N7YA on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Well, i dont know what was so disagreeable about this story, i love stories like this...you used QRP, you nailed N8S, you earned it! Congrats. If other hams didnt like stories like this Bob W9KNI wouldnt have been able to sell his book...if i recall, they are still reprinting it. we all love a good war story.

I feel that posts like this are helpful because it gives the little guns a boost in confidence. trust me, i never use over 100 watts, i have an indoor wire...its all i am allowed to use here, so thats what it is! im a DXer, i love it and im not going to let a lack of tower, beam and amp stop me from jumping into the pileup and seeing what happens.

I have used QRP for years, its a blast...looking through my logbook, i see all kinds of great DX, lots of hard to get cards too. because i simply never believed that i couldnt reach them...well, some were unreachable to even the big guns, but thats part of QRP, sometimes its just plain hard to nail, but if you always at least give it a shot, who knows....just like they say in hockey, "just fire on net, when you keep putting the puck on net, good things happen". keep trying!

So good for you, congrats, i dont consider you to be bragging and i like your "daily journal"...and soon you will have a card to show for your efforts. :-)

Ill see you in the pileups...ill be the other weak signal out on the fringes hoping for the best.

73...Adam, N7YA
 
Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by K0DCH on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Lawrence: Thanks for the article. I hope it encourages some operators to try qrp operation.

To the anonymous ARRLBOOSTER: What is it exactly that your comments contribute? I am looking forward to your next(?) interesting and informative article.

Dave
K0DCH
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by KX8N on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"To the anonymous ARRLBOOSTER: What is it exactly that your comments contribute? I am looking forward to your next(?) interesting and informative article. "

He's a troll trying to convince everyone (through his nick combined with his comments) that those who support the ARRL lack intelligence.
 
Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by N0AH on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
This is what it is alll about..............the chase!
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by KB9CRY on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Congrats, but life's too short for QRP.

Buy and amp and really have fun.
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by MACKAY3031A on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Great story.I love it.I always enjoy hearing tales of catching difficult dx.Kudos!KI4WCA
 
Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by AE6YB on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks for the fun story. I was trying to work N8S also and had every intention of using the help of my amp. After I made the contact (SSB, 59 on 17 meters), I looked up at the amp only to find that I had not turned it on. I had actually made the contact on just 35 watts with an inverted vee dipole at 35 feet. This is a great hobby!!!

Will, AE6YB
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by N2EY on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Congrats, but life's too short for QRP.

Buy and amp and really have fun."


If it were easy, everybody would do it.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by K6TXD on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I enjoyed the story. Poeple make the statement 'Life is too short for QRP' It is like fishing, you can fish and enjoy the activity or go to the store and buy some fish.

I have a question for WA8MEA in your reply you stated "2) NEVER use a tuner with on an antenna fed with coaxial cable. Your signal WILL SUCK! " Can you explain why this is? I know that a tuner is needed for ladder line. What about coax??

73 de Gerry K6TXD
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by W6TH on June 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
I will be happy to answer this.

I have a question for WA8MEA in your reply you stated "2) NEVER use a tuner with on an antenna fed with coaxial cable. Your signal WILL SUCK! " Can you explain why this is? I know that a tuner is needed for ladder line. What about coax??
....................................................

If the antenna is going to tune an antenna that is close to resonance, it is proper to do so, to tune a few/several Khz. However, if the tuner is going to be used; say a 40 meter directly fed resonance antenna with coax, it is not a good idea to use the tuner to tune the 20 meter band as the VSWR will be very high and not much signal will be radiated.

W6TH

.:
 
Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by W8GX on June 3, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Nice article and an inspiration to those of us who struggle daily with our QRP stations. Keep up the good writing! Forget comment #1. He probably never wrote an article in his life. 73! Keith/W8GX
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by WA4DOU on June 3, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
The subjects of QRP and DX'ing are always interesting. Like so many Internet threads, they evoke a diversity of opinion. The resulting mix often contains less than optimum advice. The world of QRP is made up of two principal camps, the minimalists and the maximalists or optimalists. Minimalists favor the least possible antenna while maximalists favor the optimum possible antenna. Naturally, the least possible and optimum possible antenna vary according to user circumstances and knowledge base. Generally speaking, random wires produce random results because every potential user defines the circumstances in which they are erected. It is okay for causal use but in most instances, it is not a dx antenna. Sure, you can occasionally work dx with almost anything as an antenna. Whether you run 5 watts or 1500 watts, you'll have greater success with an antenna that is optimized for dx. That requires an antenna that radiates more than half of its applied energy under about 30 degrees above the horizon. Antenna and band selection should be made carefully, more so if you're running 5 watts.
If you're limited to an antenna height of 70 feet or less, I wouldn't consider a horizontal antenna for QRP below 7 MHz. Below 40 ft., shoot for 10.1 MHz and higher. Below 35 feet, 14 MHz and higher. Below 30 feet, 18.1 MHz and higher. Below 25 feet, 21 MHz and higher.
In the last 10-15 years, chasing dx on all bands has become popular and given rise to the popularity of the G5RV and ladderline fed dipoles. While these are capable of multiband operation and even low loss in the case of ladderline feed, they are hardly what you might call optimum dx antennas. Consider specializing on one good daytime and one good nighttime band, 20 & 40 meters or perhaps 17 & 30 meters.
Can't have antenna's or severely height restricted? Hide your antennas among trees or consider a vertical. Raise it up at night if you must. Unless it's a vertical dipole, lay out sixteen radials each .1 wavelengths long or twenty four radials each .125 wavelengths long, or thirty six each .15 wavelengths long. Bury them if you can or pin them down and let the grass grow over them if possible. These radial numbers versus length represent the optimum use of wire for a given radial system. I'd rather have an outdoor vertical than an attic antenna that wasn't at least 3/8th wavelength high. Do everything necessary to optimize your antenna for dx and your results will reflect it. One more thing. Forget wide bandwidth modes and concentrate on narrow bandwidth modes. Generally speaking, CW! Optimize your proficiency with cw. Learn where and when to be calling and when to be listening. Take this advice to heart and you will go a long way toward optimizing your qrp dx results. Good luck!
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by N4SL on June 3, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I'm not trying to stir up trouble here, OK?

In my experience, having been on both ends of a QRP QSO, the actual WORK is being done on the QRO side.

I run CW Sweepstakes w/ a full 1500W Output signal which means I get a lot of calls from folks who are weak on my end. Especially Sunday when the QRP'ers come out. I very rarely can't pull the QSO out of the noise, but it's often a matter of trying and not quitting. On Sunday when it gets really slow, I QRS to 16 WPM and work a steady but slow string of QRPers (and I win, too).

I run SSB Sweepstakes w/ 5W output which means I'm the weak guy. Pretty much the first day is spent yelling and not being heard over the other people calling, but sometimes the QRO station hears me but doesn't want to slow his run to get the contact.

Sunday, I am much more successful and really appreciate the guys who will try 4-5 times to get the whole exchange through. Often times, they are my only QSO in that section.

Now, one guy said "OK, N4SL, grip that microphone really hard, let's try it" and yes, it took 5 tries.

One guy said "NO QRP! YOU QRP GUYS ARE KILLING ME!" and I have the tape to prove it, it was very funny. QRM on 20m at the time was astounding because 15m closed early.

QRP SSB during Field Day is a huge, huge challenge.
Stations and operators aren't at contest-ready condition and I rarely get through. When the bands are open, getting on 10 and 15 QRP SSB is relatively easy.
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by N7YA on June 3, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Interesting attitude from the experienced contest op you described, the one who couldnt be bothered to try and pull the QRP stations out of the muck with a little work and use of a good ear...they are worth points too, no?

I am a musician, i do it for a living. please allow me to liken this hobbys participants to that of my coworkers. I work with all sorts of players, sometimes i roll onto a gig and have no idea who im playing with or what songs i will be playing, no worries...im prepared. I have taken the time to learn what i need to know about my craft in theory and in practice, as well as the operation and upkeep of the equipment i use. Many of the players i perform or record with are VERY talented, some are newer and are just good enough to get the gig (maybe subbing in for someone, but i digress), i have performed with some not-so-experienced guys and theres not a lot of free rides or excuses for a lack of knowledge, but if the guy is just stepping in last minute, he will likely be looking around the stage for some help and que's.

Now suppose that i, being a player of nearly 30 years...turned a snooty nose up to this guy, with an attitude of "hey, you got the gig, you should be ready"...well, true, but not very mature or pro on my part. the point being is simple, help this guy get through the rough spots, it will help him be a better player and, most importantly, if he nails it because of a few well placed que's...we all succeed! when the players work together, the team wins. i never go to other bands shows and sit there and rip on them because they arent playing the songs the way the mighty ME would do it, nope...i just watch and see what i can pick up, applaud their performance after they are done.
Now i USED to act like that in my younger, more carefree days, where everything is a competition, but the older i get, the more in tune with life around me i become...

Now i act like a gentleman, respect my fellow players on other stages and shake hands like a man and a friend. what usually follows is opportunity, an expanded networking base and who knows....maybe some sub work with a great band, resulting in me paying my rent with more peace of mind. Being critical of others, especially openly, gains one a reputation of being a P.I.T.A., bitter, jealous, etc....now who wants to wear THAT as a badge. it also shows a serious lack of maturity and professionalism, two things you absolutely NEED in order to get respect among peers.

What i have noticed in ham radio in many cases is many new hams coming in all wide eyed and inquisitive, like we all were, excited to be a part of this brotherhood, only to grow older and, consequently, more bitter and opinionated....granted, this may be just a reflection of whats happening in their personal lives and its just spilling over into their hobby. But someones lack of self control, or control over the negative events in their lives (whether it be compounded right away or gradual)is no excuse for a deteriorating sense of professionalism and courtesy. as age progresses, death nears and we know it...making peace with that which surrounds you and truly enjoying life should be the priority...this includes ones hobbies. I take pure joy in going to work, i truly love making music with people, FOR people, regardless of how a newbie got the gig, he got the gig...thats out of my hands, all i know is my attitude towards him can greatly affect our performance together up there. I am there to do my part and have fun doing it. and argue changes all you want, everything changes, its supposed to! The music business is changing and not all of it is for the better, but i can either adapt to the changes or drop out all bitter and no longer take a relevant point of view. resorting to negative outbursts, thus relegating myself to a status of being irrelevant. I am a proactive thinker, i like to move forward, i will always respect and enjoy the past.some are so pro-future that they are negatively affected by even the romance of the past, which i also enjoy. we have memories for more than one reason.

Forgive me for trying to cover several pressing issues here, with respect to the original topic ill wrap it up. in summary, if we work as a team, we win...if we turn on one another, divided we shall fall. we have broken off into warring tribes in our country and it seems that has trickled down to our personal lives. place the blame where you will, the very first step we need to take is self examination. I used to send more scathing posts to these forums, i have since changed my apporach because i took a good look at what i WASNT accomplishing, i realized that what i write may not even register and im ok with that...but if one new ham reads what i write and at least sees that we arent all infighting factions who cant see eye to eye, they may take the next step and bring us back to a respectable position. one that earns respect.

It was written that if we dont learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it, it also holds true that history has shown us ways to improve and certain folks took advantage of it and made things better...those folks were likely not arrogant and overbearing, they likely had good ears. listen more, think of what you are about to say before you open your mouth, please.
And to those who understand what im talking about and realize its not based in ego whatsoever, thank you. :-)

73...Adam, N7YA
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by W2RDD on June 4, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
As a low-power operator...five to fifteen watts....mostly five, and with a marginal antenna, I don't expect every station operator to grind his or her teeth to dust attempting to copy my QRP signal. When they do, it is appreciated.

I tend to search out the weak signals sending a CQ. The station could very well be QRO, but because of antenna orientation, time of day, propagation, etc. be a weak signal into my station.

For me, the bigest thrill is a two-way QRP QSO with two willing operators appreciating each others efforts.

73
Rich
NAQCC 1565
 
Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by NU4B on June 4, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks all for the interesting stories, comments, and especially the support.

I thought the comment about the QRO op that didn't wat to work QRP stations in a contest was rather interesting. My first inclination was to dismiss this guy for various reasons. But after more thought I actually agree with the strategy - from a contest point of view. I'm not talking about dismissing all QRP stations (that seems kind of dumb) But if you can't make the QSO in a couple calls in a contest its probably better to move on. The QRP op is wasting valuable time as well as the QRO op. Let me say that I haven't worked phone for 20+ years - CW is my mode of choice. Phone QRP is a different animal and it takes excellent ops on both sides of the contact.

My experience in CW contests has been a bit different, especially if the QRO op needs you for a multiplier or points. I have found the vast majority of ops will try to pull you through. But a good QRP op should know when to give it up. And if your trying to maximize your own points you have to decide if the time your wasting trying to work one station could be better spent making QSO's with stations that can hear you. You have to do the math. For my part, if I know someone is calling I will spend the time to make the QSO. While I want to maximize my score, its more satisfying for me to give out the points, or prefix, or grid, or whatever. Its more about "the QSO" rather than the QSOs - if you know what I mean.

In any case the story was just a fun DX war story. All DX'ers have them. I wish more were written because I like to read them and there is much to learn from them. This one was more about antennas than QRP. The first night I couldn't work them whether I had 100 watts or 1000 watts - because I couldn't hear them. And the oreintation of the antenna was the problem. All of this does remind me - 3B6 starts tomorrow. Time to run the propgation programs.

73, Larry - NU4B

 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by N4SL on June 4, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I agree that when the contest is hot and heavy, the QRO operator probably needs to focus on the bigger signals and keep the rate up.

I will often times get 5-8 calls from a single CQ. I work the fastest and loudest caller first because they WON'T wait around. I hear perfectly workable but very weak signals at the bottom of the pile but there is always someone much louder calling over top. When it calms down later, I work the weak guys with no hassle.

This is why QRP'ers in the SSB SS rarely work more than 15-18 hours because there are times when you can't work ANYONE due to competition and trying just wears you out.

I agree than QRP CW isn't that difficult and is a lot of fun, but QRP SSB contesting is what I imagine it was like for Vincent Price in the movie "The Fly". He was transmutated into a fly with his human head but nobody could hear him yelling for help.

Now, in the same SSB Sweepstakes, I've heard a QRP EWA section station working a PILEUP on him many times, so being spotted in a 'rare' section can do wonders for your score.

WWA? I'm pretty sure it's the most represented section on the west coast, nobody is clamoring to work it.
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by NU4B on June 4, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Now, in the same SSB Sweepstakes, I've heard a QRP EWA section station working a PILEUP on him many times, so being spotted in a 'rare' section can do wonders for your score"

Its amazing how operating from a rare QTH or multiplier can add a few S units to your signal.

3B6 - June 7th, not tomorrow
 
Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by KX0R on June 4, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Most of the comments here about antennas for DX and QRP are correct. I've been playing the QRP/DX/portable game for many years, and I'm still amazed at what can be done with QRP in the field, with a good wire antenna, high in the trees, on a ridgetop. A QRP rig, set up with attention to the technical details, out in the open, away from development, will usually outperform a 100 watt radio with a mediocre antenna, located in an average developed area.

For many years I've created solo 1B-battery Field Day stations in the local national forests, and I'm looking forward to going back up to Wyoming soon to work FD again from my favorite spot. Every year has some new surprise - last year it was a sporadic E opening on 6M - I was working Texans on SSB with my FT817 and a 15M dipole!

Even though I prefer CW, one year I decided to work SSB at the five watt level. 20M was real nice - I contacted many of the big stations easily - and then I decided to try 40M SSB in the afternoon. That was ROUGH! Yes, I made many contacts, but the QRM and frustration were incredible. The reason I kept at it was that my antennas were good, and I managed to work some weak stations, which always increases confidence.

For QRP DX or contests, one fixed antenna is just inadequate. Every antenna has nulls, especially large horizontal wires fed on high frequencies. The nulls are what limit you with QRP. I try to have two or three antennas with separate tuners so I can instantly switch my pattern when I hear a station calling. That little antenna switch gets almost as much use as my paddles. For FD you don't generally need great low angle performance as much as when working DX, but you can get a lot more stations on the first call if you can choose between a couple of decent antennas.

QRP FD is rarely frustrating - I usually get well over 200 contacts, in spite of wasting lots of hours camping, sleeping, looking at wildlife, and trying to use challenging frequencies (like 10 meters when it's almost dead).

If you spend 5 or 10 hours putting up nice FD antennas, you'll make more contacts in 1 hour of QRP operating than if you use a small, low, compromise "product" antenna and operate for 5 or 10 hours. It's just awesome fun to hear the performance of big wires up high in the woods!

CU on 20M CW this FD...

(It's amazing how many people ask for a "SEC?" repeat when you send "WY"....)

KX0R
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by N4SL on June 4, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
WB7FJG and myself drove to western MT (from near Seattle) last year and setup on a friend's property. The trees and terrain for this site was as perfect a site I've ever seen for FD. We ran 100W and worked strings until we got tired of it (kidding). Ended up with 1102 QSOs using our club callsign W7MRG).

When the sunspots come back, I'm going up there again to do 1B QRP battery w/ my K2, 4A-hr gel cell and solar panel in a small tent in the most minimal setup I can handle, including paper logging. Not quite "On Walden Pond" but as close as I can come and use electronics.
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by N3YZ on June 4, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Roy, WA4DOU wrote

"If you're limited to an antenna height of 70 feet or less, I wouldn't consider a horizontal antenna for QRP below 7 MHz. Below 40 ft., shoot for 10.1 MHz and higher. Below 35 feet, 14 MHz and higher. Below 30 feet, 18.1 MHz and higher. Below 25 feet, 21 MHz and higher.

"In the last 10-15 years, chasing dx on all bands has become popular and given rise to the popularity of the G5RV and ladderline fed dipoles. While these are capable of multiband operation and even low loss in the case of ladderline feed, they are hardly what you might call optimum dx antennas. Consider specializing on one good daytime and one good nighttime band, 20 & 40 meters or perhaps 17 & 30 meters."

Those two paragraphs encapsulate the best antenna advice I've read in 40 years of amateur radio.

Thanks, Roy!
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by DUALGATEMOSFET on June 4, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
KX8N re ARRLBOOSTER- "He's a troll trying to convince everyone (through his nick combined with his comments) that those who support the ARRL lack intelligence."

I wouldn't say they lack intelligence. It is more ignorance than lack of intelligence. They are also very naive and too trusting. The ARRL pulled the wool over their eyes and they have no clue.

73 from DUALGATEMOSFET
aka
The "Epitaxial" One
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by KT8K on June 4, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I have run almost exclusively 5w on HF since 1978 (under my call, anyway), and find that having a good vertical as well as a good horizontal dipole or (better yet) horizontal loop is a great combination. I, too, switch back and forth between antennas a lot, always watching the S meter.

QRP takes some getting used to if you've always run 100w or more, but, like anything else, you can get quite good at it. I have made many thousands of contacts with 5w, and as long as my antennas were fairly efficient (low loss) I've done fine. QRP has sharpened my operating skills a lot, and, when I'm operating with 100w at FD feel like I'm shooting fish in a barrel. It's almost too easy. Afterward I enjoy running QRP at home even more.

I especially appreciate what K7YA said above, too.
Best rx & 73 to all de kt8k - Tim
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by KT8K on June 4, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Oops - I meant N7YA, not K7YA. 73 - Tim
 
RE: Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by WA4DOU on June 5, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I plan to operate qrp again this Field Day in the 1B-Battery category using solar charging & a marine deep cycle battery, ground mounted vertical & radials. 300-400 qso's shouldn't be too difficult.
 
Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by W4VD on June 5, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Great article, as far as the "critque" it's quite obviously he is both an American Idol and Randy Jackson fan.

You all remember to keep it real, "dogs"

Bill
 
Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by K7TST on June 14, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
please see my review under yaesu ft-817. I too worked N8S with 5 watts, and more DX stations. 73's K7TST.
 
Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by K3MD on June 15, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Knowing how difficult it is to write either a technical article or a regular ham radio article, keep up the good work. It often takes me 6 months of thinking to get a good article for National Contest Journal. One humor article I wrote on prostatic hypertrophy (yields frequent urination) and contesting, I got a hate mail from a urologist who actually took my recommendation not to drink any fluids for 48 hours seriously!
John K3MD
 
Working N8S -- 1 in 100,000 QSOs  
by AB7JK on June 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
The best thing about working QRP or any type of radio is not caring if I make a contact or not. Who says it has to be a challenge. After so many QSO's the process is more fun and interesting than the outcome.

If people get depressed because they can't make a contact or envious because their friend did it's pretty sad.
 
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