|
New to Ham Radio?
My Profile
Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Speak Out
Strays
Survey Question
Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation
Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers
Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
Vincent DiPilato (W2DIP)
on
July 4, 2007
View comments about this article!
As a recent new General eager to work all that DX I had been listening to for the previous 4 months, I was faced with the challenge of putting up an HF antenna in a strict CC&R community. Instead of being discouraged I viewed this challenge as an opportunity to experiment, learn and overcome an obstacle many hams face.
I got my General Ticket the very first day you could test without code and there I was with a nice new Kenwood TS2000 wondering what to do about an antenna. I do have a nice 35' attic but it has no floor to walk on other than at the top of the attic stairs. The attic ceiling is only 6' high so my obvious choice was a wire antenna. A long look around the web produced the Yo-Yo antenna. It is a dipole with a Budwig connector that allows you to plug in your coax cable. The two wires are wound in a spool like reel that allows you to feed out or reel in the wire for whatever length you want up to 43' on each side. The two plastic spools look like big YoYos, hence the name. The big selling point for me was the two spools. Remember that I could not walk in my attic so I had to get the wire to the far corners. The spools were heavy enough to allow me to toss them to the far corners of my attic in a L configuration and yet light enough not to penetrate the ceilings in the rooms below. I plugged in my coax, hooked up my MFJ Intellituner and immediately made a contact from my NJ QTH to a ham in Florida. Over the next few weeks I worked 22 countries and many US states with that dipole that was not supposed to work so good in an attic. Hey I was a new ham so how was I supposed to know that an attic antenna would not work?
I had fun for many weeks but after hearing over and over again about attic antennas not being as good as outdoor antennas I decided to see what I could do about getting an antenna outdoors. Maybe a few million hams are right. I next checked out the accessible areas in my attic and found several places where #14 wire could easily be pushed out of the attic and onto the roof. There was an opening between the roof and a vent pipe and a louver vent where I could do the same. Now I had some options to get my wire outdoors and was poised to try a permanent outdoor antenna.
I spent the next few weeks reading as much information about wire antennas that I could find. I also bought the ARRL antenna book. I also came across a few good web sites and gleaned what I needed from them. I decided my best choice was something as old as ham radio; a random wire antenna. It was cheap to make and would allow me to tune it on all the bands I was interested in and would not attract any attention.
My research led me to use an LDG 4:1 balun with a 33' wire on the antenna side and about 8 counterpoises on the ground side, each cut for a quarter wave on the bands I was interested in; mainly 40m - 10m. I went into my attic, pushed 33' of wire through the opening alongside the vent pipe, spread my counterpoises around as best as I could in the attic and hooked up the coax to the balun. I quickly ran down the attic steps to turn on my rig. I could notice the difference immediately. I used the antenna and it was outperforming my attic dipole to such an extent that I disassembled it but used its wires as additional counterpoises for my new random wire antenna. I learned that about 10-12 counterpoises cut for quarter wave lengths on the bands you want to work make it easy to tune up.
Who says you can not work HF effectively under CC&R conditions? From what I heard and experienced, I was doing as well or maybe even better than other hams using dipoles or wire antennas costing much more than mine. I was happy to stay like this. Then came the leak!
The morning after a rain storm we noticed a leak around one of our skylights. We called a roofer in. He said that our roof would last another 2-3 years but we needed new flashing around the skylight. Well, I thought, why wait. Let's redo the roof right now and while you are up there Mr. Roofer, would you kindly cut out three more vents in the roof for future use and run this here little bitty wire from an existing vent into my 50' high tree out front for me. No problem he said. My wife gave me the look until I asked him to also replace our windows and remodel our bathrooms. That made my wife very happy which in turn made me happy.
As a result of my roof work I now have about 86' of wire running from a vent in my roof to a 50' tree in an inverted L configuration. Now, if I were younger and thinner I could have done the same myself but the opportunity presented itself and I took advantage of it. My neighbors can not see it, the company that runs our home owners association could not see it during an inspection of our development a few weeks ago and most times I can not even see it. I feel that I now do as well as anyone with a wire antenna can do in my circumstances and the only thing better for me would be a Yaqi which is not in the cards unless I move. If I hear them I can work them and I usually am getting “real” signal reports of between 57 to 59 depending on conditions. If they are strong I hit them strong and if they are weak, well you get the picture. I can not ask for more. Not bad for an antenna that I spent less than $50 on and now tunes 1:1 on ALL bands using my rigs' internal tuners. Alright, it is not great on 80 meters and below but I have a few contest DX contacts logged in on those bands and those bands seem to need an amplifier more than a better antenna. I have added a few more counterpoises, mostly over 30 feet and attached one to a recently disconnected (and flushed) gas pipe that runs about 65 feet. The counterpoises are the key and they must be above ground for technical reasons I can not explain but adhere to since they have proven to work and work very well. (Something about the earth messing up the resonance of the quarter wave length wires due to soil conditions or whatever). No RFI anywhere and I have been able to sell off my two external antenna tuners. For me, starting my random wire antenna from my attic works because it provides a place to put my counterpoises. They would be difficult to hide outside. All that exits my home is a single #14 wire that impossible to see from street level. A dipole or other wire antenna would not work for me due to the need to feed them in the center, or off center. Ladder line also was not an option in my setup. The coax to balun works very well. I used low loss coax and never had a hint of RFI in the shack. I am not saying that there are not other ways to do the same thing. This is just what I found that works very well for my circumstances. I like this antenna so much I have not considered replacing it. People think I am crazy because I spent 10 times more on my mobile HF antenna but hey, what works, works!
I just wanted to let new General's and those with CC&R restrictions know that you can have lots of fun on HF no matter what obstacles you face and for a little amount of money. Just use your imagination. Is that a string of lanterns running across your back yard or is it a random wire antenna with some plastic lanterns hanging from it? How about the guy wire on that tree, or the white wire running down the side of your house that looks just like telephone wire, etc. I think you get the picture. And remember that if all else fails, you can still have lots of fun with an indoor antenna. Heck before I ventured into my attic I had an antenna farm in the guest room next to my shack. I just used to love it when I would hear my call sign in a pile up while other hams with fancy store bought outdoor antennas were still waiting their turn.
Of course you need to pay attention to safety. Make sure that the end of your random wire and counterpoises are covered with electrical tape or otherwise insulated so that it if they come into contact with leaves, flammables, etc. they do not start a fire. Make sure that if the wire falls or is moved during a storm that it can not come into contact with electrical lines and such. Keep it high enough so that people can not reach it. Run RF evaluations to make sure that you, your family and neighbors are safe from dangerous levels of RF.
I hope that I have encouraged at least one person to get some wire out and play on the HF bands with the rest of us. If in town, try to find my antenna. If you do please let me know where it is as I would like to perform some routine maintenance on it.
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by MACKAY3031 on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I have used indoor inverted v's and small transmitting loops to great effect.And #27 magnet wire in outdoor runs over 130 feet.Sure, it stretches.But it works and is nearly invisible.Good Job OM!Great article!
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by K0BG on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
As the old adage goes, there's a hundred ways to skin a cat. The biggest problem nowadays, most neophyte amateurs just go buy a pre-skinned cat!
It's a shame too, because experience is a great teacher as long as you're willing to learn. Apparently, you've scored on both accounts.
Good job!
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by ALLENCB on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
FWIW, a Ham should always check with their HOA and see if they can put up that antenna. I didn't expect to get permission, but I asked anyways. I told theme exactly what I wanted to install and what it would look like (22' tall Hustler 4BTV). I was told they can't regulate my antenna and to enjoy it.
It never hurts to ask and you might be surprised at the answer. However, a wire antenna with plastic lanterns strung along it would definitely earn a nastygram from the HOA.
Chris
KI4POT
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W3TUA on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Great story.
Years ago I lived in military post housing. Soon after moving in I errected a vertical antenna but my radios had not arrived in my transportation shipment yet. Not but a few days later there was a high ranking noncommissioned officer on my front step telling me that my neighbors were complaining of TVI and phone interference and I must cease operation immediately. So, I learned my lesson about visible antennas in that area.
Years later I found myself living in government housing again but this time I put dipoles in the attic. There was only enough room for a 20-meter sized antenna but I made the best of it. I never ran more than 100 watts and usually ran only 10 watts when using PSK31 or CW. Strangely enough, there were no complaints from neighbors this time.
Most of my QSO's were geared towards county hunting and contesting. The old rule of "if you can hear 'em you can work 'em" usually held true. I kept a paper log and can see where I worked over 1000 US counties and many DX entities.
I'm glad you found a way to get on the air. Ham radio is too much fun to miss.
73,
Korey--W3TUA
Towanda, PA
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by SSB on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
The statement that makes no sense to me is "I only have X number of feet in my attic or ?, so I put up a YY meter antenna".
If any HF antenna can be condensed down to a 6 foot whip on a car, then any HF band antenna can be between 6 feet and its 1 /2 wavelength. The longer the better but short antennas can work very well. I have used every size of HF antenna and if done right (big loading coils), they can be very efficient. Using NEC3, you can design an antenna, using the correct traps or loading coils, that will get a length of wire into a ballpark design for any length.
Too many hams give up on 'compromise' antennas too quickly. I used a 35' dipole on 75 meters in the attic and I did very well with it. It pays to read the antenna book with the intention of getting beyond the obvious designs and use the info to get to antennas that solve problems.
Alex.....
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by N5IVZ on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I have my Buddipole(horizontal mode) hidden in a lemon tree on our property.. Running QRP and doing fine!!
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W8JN on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Have a High Sierra on the back of the Jeep. Run coax through the condo through the garage to the ant and my "no ant" spits 1kw !!!
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W1YW on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I was fortunate to be able to have an attic antenna, 15 years ago, with a roof that didn't suck up RF: Beware--most wood/shingled roofs will not do good things for your signal.
The antenna doesn't function as you want it though: the 'tuned' counterpoises only work if the current distribution wants to behave as you want it; believe me, it isn't in this case. But so what: if you are getting out then it works well enough!
The main downside to attic antennas is that they easily and often break the RF exposure rules, so keep that in mind when choosing location and TX power. Also, coupling to the house current is a common malady: you may be generating RFI.
Please keep the RF exposure issue in mind for your neighbors too.
73,
Chip W1YW
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W2DIP on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Thanks for the comments. I did formally ask my HOA both verbally and in writing and they said that they would take it up at the next board meeting. They never did. I called again and was told that they do not actively look for infractions and that they do not take any action unless someone formally complains in writing and identifies themselves. Many homeowners in my development are not even aware of the CC&R requirements and there are numerous examples of non compliance to be found. I got the hint and since my immediate neighbors are not in compliance big time, I went ahead and put up my invisible wire. As I once read, it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission. :) 73's
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by K4JF on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Years ago I lived in military post housing. Soon after moving in I errected a vertical antenna but my radios had not arrived in my transportation shipment yet. Not but a few days later there was a high ranking noncommissioned officer on my front step telling me that my neighbors were complaining of TVI and phone interference and I must cease operation immediately. "
I hope you informed him of the bravo-sierra of their complaint as you had no radios yet. That should have quieted any future complaints when the radios DID arrive, as their credibility had been destroyed.
Had the same thing happen to a friend. Neighbors complained even before he unpacked his radios. When that one was shot down so easily, there were no more problems. When I moved, I always put up antennas at least a month before unpacking radios.
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by WA8MEA on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Dang!
And here I thought this was a discussion thread on my favorite group of all time: Creedence Clearwater Revival!
73, Bill - WA8MEA
HamRadioFun.com
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W3LK on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Alan:
<< As the old adage goes, there's a hundred ways to skin a cat. The biggest problem nowadays, most neophyte amateurs just go buy a pre-skinned cat! >>
You havew SUCH a way with words! <g>
To the original poster - CONGRATULATIONS!!! Well Done!!!
73,
Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by KA5ROW on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I don't understand why anyone would want to live in a so called CC&R community. There are plenty places to live. I believe there are plenty housing developments in city's that don't have restrictions, and are still up scale. I kinda sorter live in the country 3 mi. from town 1 mi. from the hi-way. I had my hole dug by a back hole for $25 " I went down the street as where a new house was being built and just asked if he would come by and dig me a hole." Set a 10 ft section of tower in and had a yard and a half of concrete pored. Put up my tower and antennas and I did not ask any one for permission on need any permits. You can see it at KA5ROW.COM
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by K9ZMD on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Vincent,
I have no technical expertise, and certainly can't argue with your success; however, one aspect of your antenna system puzzles me. What function is performed by the 4:1 balun in your system? Others with great expertise have not remarked on this, so I suspect I am missing something here.
If you are using unbalanced transmission line (coax) and feeding an unbalanced antenna (which yours seems to be), the conventional need for a balun does not exist.
Did you use an antenna analyzer to determine that a 4:1 ratio was needed to transform the feed point impedance to a value that your antenna tuner could handle on any given band?
It is remarkable that you have no RFI issues with a system located so close to domestic wiring. My own experience has been quite the opposite, especially when induced antenna currents run down the outside of the coax shield to get really cozy with all of my home electronic devices. A current balun at the feed point does suppress those currents, and I've learned to use either a coiled coax balun or a string of ferrite beads for that purpose. . . . . ummm, the penny dropped as I wrote this. I now suspect that your 4:1 balun may be helping you avoid RFI problems.
Again, I envy your success with that stealthy antenna, but I have to ask if you installed the balun at the antenna feed point expressly to suppress induced antenna currents, or was there still another reason that I am missing? 73
Gary, K9ZMD
Palmdale, CA
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by N5YPJ on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I too can't figure out why folks want to live in CC&R neighborhoods either, but hey if we all though alike life would be boring. I've had a variety of experiences at my different QTHs over the years and have learned that any antenna is better than no antenna at all (observing RF safety concerns) and will let you make some contacts when conditions are good. Keeping an open mind to the situation, there are lots of ways to put up an antenna. Learn your CC&Rs and your city zoning laws. After having checked all the regs on towers, obviously not asking if it is OK to do so, at a former QTH I put up a tower in an older subdivision. The neighbors didn't like it but there was nothing that could be done to me because there was no regs regarding towers. Funny thing was my ex wife kept the house (along with the tower)after the divorce and several months later the neighbors were whining about all the RFI the tower was generating!
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by N4KC on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I'm always amused when people claim they can't do something and list excuses why not, when the real reason is they are too lazy to try something new or to research the possibilities, or they lack the imagination to even see them when they are right there in front of them. I love the fact that the poster did some research--ain't the Internet grand for things like this?--bought a good antenna book, and solved the problem. Note that he learned some things along the way and can take pride in an antenna system he concocted himself. I predict he will soon get curious about other possibilities and try some other things as well.
While traveling last week, I overheard a conversation between two relatively new hams on a 2M repeater. One moaned about "only" having a lot 150 feet long, no room for antennas. The other said he really had no interest in HF because he "only" had room for wire antennas and didn't think they were worth the trouble...beam only for him!
To each his own...
73,
Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W5HLH on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Great article!
Some of you asking why anyone would live in a CC&R community need to get out and travel around the country some----in a lot of areas, your choice is between living in a CC&R development or having crack cocaine dealers as neighbors! ;-)
When I first moved to Las Vegas, I bought a condo in the Summerlin development there. Summerlin is a nice place to live, but it comes with a CC&R document package the size of the Manhattan telephone directory. And ham antennas were definitely forbidden.
My solution was to use temporary antennas that could be taken down after each operating session. My initial choice was the Outbacker with the Alpha-Delta tripod, which gave reasonable performance at ground level. Later I went to a Buddipole on my second story balcony, and it gave better performance (and was cheaper in the bargain). The neighbors were curious about what I was up to, so when they asked I used it as an opportunity to demonstrate ham radio and mumble something about "testing my emergency communications ability." Okay, so it was a lot of Bravo Sierra, but it seemed to satisfy them and I had no complaints. And, since I took down my antennas after each session, I had no permanent "eyesore" for them to complain about.
If I had it to do over, I would try something like the Par end-fed Hertz antennas. I have some I use for portable work, and that black wire is often hard to spot.
I'll echo the comments about watching your RF exposure levels----you'll probably start generating RFI complaints long before reaching dangerous levels of RF, however. I usually operated at around 20 watts out, and that was sufficient to prevent RFI to my stereo, telephone answering machine, etc., and I assumed (perhaps unwisely) that my neighbors were experiencing no problems. But at least no one complained.
But do experiment before giving up on ham radio if you find yourself in a HOA community. You might be pleasantly surprised at what you can do with a "sub-optimal" station.
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by N9XCR on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Great article!
The great thing about stealthy installations is that the neighbors are none the wiser to what you have going on. B.S. complaints and actual complaints will probably never surface. :)
Chris
N9XCR
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by K3TD on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I live in a deed restricted community and have an Inverted L antenna that is competely stealth. The wire runs to the top of one tree and then across to another tree about 75' away. It is fed at the base with an SG-230 Autotuner. The coax from the shack to the SG-230 is buried, and the Autotuner is under a small brown box to keep it away from direct exposure to the elements and make it impossible to spot.
Except for that portion of the horizontal leg between the trees, the entire antenna and feedline are invisible. In over a year nobody has noticed the wire. I have absolutely no RFI anywhere in the house, and my neighbors' houses are all farther away from the antenna than mine is. With 59 buried radials of 35' to 75', it works quite well on 160 - 10 meters.
Good luck and 73,
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by K1CJS on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Excellent point made here. You do not have to be visible to be able to operate. It's really the hams that need to display that big antenna that have the problems--not the smart ones who find a way to get on the air despite the restrictions. Cudos to you and 73!
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by VA7CPC on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>> My wife gave me the look until I asked him to also replace our windows and remodel our bathrooms. That made my wife very happy which in turn made me happy.
<<
Those are the words of a wise man! <g>
Charles
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by WL7CMG on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Well OM....you pretty much had me till you made the statement..."If I can hear them I can work them". Sorry, but for this to be true then....you ain't hearing a lot. That "could" be because of your antenna, or lack of a REAL GOOD receiver. I'm not trying to slam you or your set up, and I'm glad you found away around your CCRs, but I just have NEVER believed in that statement, and still am amazed that experienced hams continue to say it. 73 and have fun!!!
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by N6AJR on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
any antenna is better than no antenna at all... good job
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W3LK on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
<< I too can't figure out why folks want to live in CC&R neighborhoods either, >>
Sometimes one has no choice. For 42 years I have lived in church-owned parsonages and I had no choice over the neighborhood. Even in the couple that had restrictions I managed to put up an antenna of some kind to stay on the air. Fortunately, the last 10 years were in a townhouse in the Inner harbor area of Baltimore and I had a 23K sq ft steel roof to mount my Butternut vertical and other antennas on.
Now that I am retiring we are buying (actuually my wife picked out and made the down payment on the house) a 1943 house on a 1/4 acre corner in a town that has no antenna restrictions other than any separate tower must be 8' from the property line and must fall within the lot. No neighborhood association or anything else.
73,
Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W2DIP on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Well, I do not know if you consider a Yaesu FT2000D a Good Receiver or not but that is what I use. My previous transcievers have been Icom 746 Pro and 756 Pro III. I guess there are better but I still am able to work'em if I hear them and I think I hear them pretty well. I have not come across a situation yet where someone in my area hears a station and I can not. We keep in contact with each other through email and IM and often work the same DX. One can also say that you can not miss what you do not know. Now if I lived out in the open and the other locals had towers and such then it would be a different story but here in the NY City Metro area you would be hard pressed to find a place to live without CC&R and even if you did, the houses are so close together that unless you hate your neighbors you will restrict yourself to modest antennas.
As far as not knowing why people live in CC&R communities it all depends where you live and what is available. I also recognize that Ham radio is a hobby and not my lifestyle so it does not play a role in my major life decissions. I have a rich and full life outside of Ham Radio and if I had to give up playing radio to live in a house that I love, I would do so without much thought. Got lots of other hobbies that I can indulge in that do not impose restrictions. Then there is the fact that since there are restrictions it makes it that much sweeter when you can overcome them to any extent. If I had a tower and a 1500 watt amp that I could turn on and talk to whomever I wanted to, I know that I would soon be bored with the hobby and find something else more challenging to do. I like the challenge and that is what keeps me interested. I run across a lot of hams who do not work DX anymore because they say it is no fun. It is no fun because they have big antennas and powerful amps and the challenge and thrill of the hunt is gone. Others in those circumstances maintain their interest because they like to talk to people all over the world or perhaps like the power they feel when they come on the air and initiate pileups and are in control. I guess it comes down to why you engage in this hobby. Some like to just talk, others like to experiment with antennas, some like to build amps and restore old tube rigs, some like to be the big dog,etc. It is all good as we are not hurting anyone and having fun.
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by WA7NCL on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Use of a balun or the output of a balance tuner on an indoor antenna or "random" wire can help with common mode currents. If you can get enough isolation you will not have RF on the tuner chassis or radio chassis. I have used the balanced output of a tuner to run a random wire antenna from a 2nd floor bedroom with a "ground" wire that is very long down to an outdoor faucet. The "ground" wire actually radiates some and the resulting antenna is more like an offset fed antenna. But it works and gets you around the RF ground problem.
The guy who posted as using an autotuner and inverted L with radials, has probably the easiest system for a nube to use. Just buy the autotuner, add some wires to the ground lug for radials and a piece of wire running to a support, and it will tune up. The control wire and the coax to the radio are easy to route and don't radiate. I have used that sort of system on several Field days and can vouch for its ease and effectiveness.
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by N4KZ on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Congrats on your antenna experimentation. I'm surprised these days at the number of hams buying commercially made wire antennas. Most of the time, you can make the same thing for far less money and actually learn something about antennas.
73, N4KZ
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W9OY on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
One thing regarding your yo yo antenna tossed in opposing corners, if you ever get the wild hair to run some power, the Yo Yo is the part in a resonant 1/2 wave antenna that will have the highest voltage and hence the highest propensity to catch the place on fire.
73 W9OY
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W2DIP on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I will admit that I am not a techo minded ham. I am more of a gatherer of ideas.
I use the balun for several reason. I needed something to plug my coax into, I needed an RF choke and several manufacturers and people who make baluns and know a lot more than me told me that this is what I needed for my setup. As I find in most of my other hobbies, there are always counter arguments backed up by scientif facts. You just need to pick the ideas that you feel are correct and go with them until real world results prove otherwise. I have been down a few bad paths. I can not tell you how it works or why. There may be room for improvement but until I run out of DX to work or stop being heard I will keep the status quo.
The only time I had problems with man made noise was when I ran a wire antenna wrapped around the middle of my house. Bad idea. I could here those electrons crackling. :) I only have about three feet of the wire in my attic. The rest runs to a tree in an upward slope about 10 feet and then back down in an inverted V about thirty feet. One leg of the antenna is about 15 feet closer to the ground than the other. Never had RFI problems in my shack, rig or audio processors. Always coiled and taped the coax at the antenna feed point. Snap on chokes on all mic cables and computer wires and such. Do not know if I need them as I take one off now and then and see no problem but I keep them on as they do no harm. Now, if I was running serious power the situtation may be different. As I said, I am a borrower of ideas and I selected ideas that I felt were not only plausible but fit in with my circumstances. I am not qualified to dispute any technical arguments so I will not. I know it works well. My ham friends know it works well and do not feel that I am at any signficant disadvantage as far as wire antennas go. Yes I could do better but it would probably be at the expense of not being able to tune up all bands. This is a compromise and one that I elected to make.
Thanks for the feedback.
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W2DIP on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Good points Chip. I think some readers misundstand my current antenna setup. My wire starts in the attic from a balun. Only three feet is in the attic. The counterpoises are in the attic but the main radiating wire is outside of the house sloping upwards into a tree. The roof and attic therefore have a minimum impact. My noise level is very low and I have compared it with other hams using the same rig(s).
As I stated in my article, I did run evaluations and always do so when I make any change in my setup. I like my neighbors and do not want them sprouting a second head or such. :)
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by K0JW on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Nice article, I lived under CC&R restrictions for five years and did OK with a High Sierra antenna mounted on the deck. I pretended like I was happy with it but when I had the chance to move to a location where I could put up a tower I jumped at the chance. Now I am competitive again and have a chance in the pileups, and the fun has increased a hundred fold. CC&R's.........a pity.
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by N3AIU on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I've been living/working in Germany for almost a year in a small 3rd-/top- floor apartment. I feed the open-wire terminals of my antenna tuner with two wires, each 51' feet long. I tacked them to my ceiling throughout the apartment. This system looks like a G5RV without the matching feedline.
Running 100W and mostly CW, I've managed to work 110 countries in just a few months on 80 through 6 meters with only casual operating. Granted, that's not too hard from Europe (I might be less satisfied if I were living in Kansas), but it's a nice accomplishment.
I managed to bust some big pileups on 10-30 meters. I have consistently worked into the Carribean on 40 meters. During the last CQ WW on CW, I even worked a bunch of big gun stations on 80 meters.
I wouldn't trade this stealth antenna for my 80 meter full wave loop that faithfully waits for me on my 2.5 acre property in northern Arizona, but it'll do for now.
73, Nick N3AIU/DL1NE
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W7ETA on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Nice prose.
Good article.
A+ for a positive contribution.
73
Bob
Come to think of it, I haven't spin any CCR albums in a while. Maybe later today?
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by KF6BKA on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Nick,
Do you have any trouble with RFI or exposure levels? I'm in a similar situation but only have a 10x13' room do do this in.
73's
Rich
kf6bka
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by K5ML on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Great article, Vince. I hope it will encourage others who are QRT to think about getting back on the air.
Last fall, I decided to get back on the air after being QRT for over 20 years. Before going QRT in the '80's, my antenna was a 4 element tri-band quad on a 51' crank-up tower. Now, I live in CC&R land and would need to resort to stealth antennas or move. Moving is out of the question. I'm a casual ham, not a professional ham. I tried professional hamming and found that it pays poorly. :)
My lifelong friend, Andy, K5MVP in Mississippi put up a G5RV antenna only about 15' high after Hurricane Katrina. Feeding it with commercial window line through an old Johnson Matchbox, Andy told me he was working the world with no problem using a Collins KWM-2 and 30L-1 linear. He lives in the country where he can put up whatever he wants as high as he wants but said he felt no need to do so. So that gave me an idea.
The first thing I bought was a Collins 30L-1 at a local hamfest. Then, I went on ebay and bought three 250 watt Johnson Matchboxes. The plan was to build 3 stealth antennas fed with window line and hook each one to a separate Matchbox so I could instantly switch between them using a coax switch. Then, I went transceiver shopping and purchased an Icom 756 Pro III.
After a period of trial and error, I am currently using 3 stealth antennas. One is a 400' sky loop around the perimeter of my property. Two hundred feet are attached to a stucco wall and are only about 5.5' high. About 100' go over the top of a terracotta roof peaking at about 18' and the final 100' runs along the wall of the house about 16' high. The second antenna is a 125' dipole only about 14' high. The third antenna is an inverted-L, 105' long using three 66' buried radials. The vertical part of the L is 33' long and runs to the top of a chimney about 24' high. The horizontal part slopes down from the chimney to a palm tree about 12 ft. high.
I made my first DX contact on January 4. In six months I have worked 120 countries, mostly on 20 and 40 cw. I can't say I work everything I hear but I do work at least 80 percent of what I hear and it's probably closer to 90 percent. Being able to switch between antennas instantly is a great advantage. Sometimes conditions favor one antenna on one day and another antenna on the other. The loop has a definite advantage to the Far East while the Inverted-L is the clear winner into Europe and Africa most of the time. I use the Inverted-L or the loop over 90% of the time. The dipole has pretty much been relegated to the few times I get on 80 meters.
Bottom line: I'm having as much or more fun as I've ever had in ham radio. If it's possible to work 120 countries at the bottom of the sun spot cycle using stealth antennas, then the next few years should be very interesting. If you are thinking about getting back on, don't let the CC&Rs stop you. It can be done.
73,
Mickey, K5ML
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by AG4RQ on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
FB, Vincent. Great story. This is a good lesson in creative problem-solving. It just shows what can be done to solve a problem when you have a desire to learn about something you knew little or nothing about (antennas), and use creativity and ingenuity to overcome an obstacle.
If you get caught, just tell the HOA you built a homemade antenna for DirecTV. Above all, don't let any of your neighbors know you are a ham.
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by N3AIU on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Rich:
I use a low-pass filter on 80-10m, and that gets rid of most of the RFI. I don't have a low-pass filter for 6m, so I operate there only infrequently. In regard to human exposure limits, I have sprouted no additional appendages up to this point.
NB: The only ground I use is through the AC mains, yet I have received no RF burns. It is virtually impossible to get a decent RF ground from the third floor, especially on the higher bands. I may buy or build an artificial ground eventually, which could reduce the RFI and exposure levels even more.
73, Nick N3AIU/DL1NE
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by KG6QHP on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hi Vincent,
Great article and the response to it has been excellent.
The best part about the responses is that no one suggested that you put up a fan dipole (not kidding entirely). hi hi hi
73 de KG6R formerly kg6qhp,
Jim
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by ONAIR on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Why avoid CC&Rs, when the fun of living in a CC&R community is beating the HOA gestapo at their own game! When you hear neighbors start to compain about quacking sounds in their TVs, just tell them that ducks have moved into the area!
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W4LGH on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
K0BG said.."As the old adage goes, there's a hundred ways to skin a cat. The biggest problem nowadays, most neophyte amateurs just go buy a pre-skinned cat!"
Now there's a marketing concept, wonder if I can corner the market on pre-skinned cats?
Seriously, I ran a complete Ham station, on HF/VHF & UHF living in a 3 story condo on the 3rd floor for 7 years. My attic was a virtual antenna farm! I had antennas from 160meters thru 70CM. Was I a Powerhouse? No..but I did make contacts running no more than 100watts..and had a ball. Needless to say, the HF antenna was shortened, compromise, yes, but it worked pretty good. I'm sure my neighboors were glad when I sold it and moved away, but then they never knew where it was coming from. So there are advantages to running stealth. I am still stealth today, but my antennas are outside in the trees behind my house, 100' back into the woods. Yes, it was more work, but well worth it.
Nothing is impossible once you set your mind to it. By the way, I always heard the saying this way..." There is more than 1 way to skin a cat" Still thinking about that Pre-Skinned Cat market though...I see big $$$$$$!!
73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by K5ZR on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Vince,
Your article, and your responses, are excellent. Thank you for some especially good reading.
73,
Bob
K5ZR
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by KC5CQD on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Well OM....you pretty much had me till you made the statement..."If I can hear them I can work them". Sorry, but for this to be true then....you ain't hearing a lot. That "could" be because of your antenna, or lack of a REAL GOOD receiver. I'm not trying to slam you or your set up, and I'm glad you found away around your CCRs, but I just have NEVER believed in that statement, and still am amazed that experienced hams continue to say it. 73 and have fun!!!"
Sorry OM but I have to disagree. I've been a licensed ham since '92 and I can tell you with all honesty that...with the exception of pileups...I've always been able to work ANY station I've heard. And that's with wire antennas and 100 watts or less.
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W2DIP on July 4, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
As I previously stated, you would be correct if I had an antenna that could pick up stations much better than mine can but with my antenna the statement of if I can hear them I can work them is true; most times. If the propagagation is such that I can hear them but they can not hear me, well obviously I can not work them. I have worked off the back of more than one beam antenna though and I stick to my statement that I have not so far ran into a situation where a local ham hears a station and I do not. In fact sometimes it is the other way around since my rigs have some pretty good features for isolating weak signals.
Perhaps you take the statement too literally as it really means that if the conditions are right and thatif both parties are capabile of hearing each other, then contact can be made. With my attic antenna I was able to hear stations in the distance but they could not hear me. With my outdoor random wire antenna, that is no longer the case. I guess it can cut both ways though. Too good of an antenna will allow you to hear stations that you can not work and a poor antenna will allow you to work all stations that you can hear. It is the big fish in small pond versus small fish in big pond situation. :) Anyway, thanks for not getting personal and I may grudgingly agree with you as it is really more of an expression than an obsolute truth.
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W1YW on July 5, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Again, I want to stress the importance of the RF exposure limits in this situation.
It's one thing to try to circumvent a bad rule in a constructive way (many CCR's have binding contracts about NO antennas, not just ones you can't see outside), it's quite another to have one that ILLEGALLY irradiates your neighbor (or others--like yourself) with near-field exposure (for example, in many condos, your neighbor could easily be LIVING in the near field of an attic antenna). Check your powers; leep them within LEGAL, safe limits.
73,
Chip W1YW
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W4LGH on July 5, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hmmmmm....
If I can hear them, I can work them. Isn't that like the statement, You always find what you are looking for in the last place you look? Its always going to be in the last place you look, unless you are a moron and keep looking for it after you find it! And how can you work someone you can't hear?
Just busting your chops...I know what is being said, but its how it is said. Just like one I heard last nite, Are you close to where you are at? Well, uh yea, I would have to be close to where I was. Again, I know what was being said, he was asking if I was close to my home qth. Can you see what I am saying?? (grin) Nope, and I can't hear what you see either!
73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
Keep those tubes glowing bright!
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by KF4HR on July 5, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Great story. Yep, there is a lot that can be done in these situations to get a decent signal out.
During my younger years I was an apartment dweller which of course meant I had antenna restrictions (typically "none allowed"). But of course that just energizes many of us to "find a way"! I managed to operate in the stealth mode anyway, and even rigged up a small Azimuth/Elevation system I'd drag outside at night to work Oscar satellites. Did it work? Yep! Not great, but it worked. But even with the restrictions, I still had fun - although I was always worried about someone seeing my antenna, RFI giving me away, etc, etc. But sometimes you have to do, what you have to do and "compromize" is the name of the game.
But when it came to buying my home there was no way I was going to put up with a HOA.
Many situations in life dictate priorities and sometimes hams end up in antenna restrictive environments. But what amazes me the number of hams who had a choice, yet knowingly moved into a HOA environment, then later complain about it. If you knew up front what you where signing up for, and had a choice, well... you asked for it.
So...
* Stealth wire antenna that does a decent job, $20
* The perfect brownish-red paint to match everyone else's front door and shutters. $22
*** Freedom to do what you want... Priceless.
For those that have the opportunity, choose your QTH wisely.
KF4HR
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by N9VG on July 5, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I have CCRs where I live as well. It is a challegne at times. I recently ran a dipole vertically in a tree in the backyard. No one can see it and the take of angle is great for DX. There are a lot of things you can do in a CCR area. Great article!
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W2DIP on July 5, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I really appreciate your concern about RF evaluation as that is a pet peeve of mine. I had stated in an earlier comment that I always perform evaluations on all bands using worse case scenarios. I am an end unit and have several blocks of farmland to my north and one neighbor to my south. East and West the houses are about 250 feet away. I do not have an amplifer because of my concern about RF exposure to those I love and care about. Running SSB for a few minutes per hour at an average power of 60 watts is well within the safe limits. My neighbors are about 40-50 feet from the weak side of my antenna. On VHF the antenna is even further away from humans but I still keep power under 50 watts at worse and mostly at 5-15 on average for repeter work.
I also stress that I use a balun located about 25 feet from my shack rather than bring the random wire directly into my shack to avoid further RF exposure.
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W2DIP on July 5, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
KF4HR - You are right. I do not complain about my situation, I embrace it and make the best of it. What a lot of hams need to realize though is that many of us became hams after we moved into our homes. Moving from the homes we love and rasied our families in to accommodate what is supposed to be a hobby is a little extreme for many of us. :) Disregarding your spouse's preference is also not fair. If I move, all things being equal, I would pick the house without restrictions BUT if the house I or my wife love has CC&R, my hobby will not make the choice for me.
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by WB2WIK on July 5, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Very nice article, we can feel your enthusiasm.
The "I can work everything I hear" statement can be pretty true for 100W stations; it's impossible that you're hearing everything the big stations in your area hear, though. I wouldn't believe that for a second!
When I had my station at the Jersey shore (not too far from Matawan, down in West Long Branch), I could hear and work a lot of stuff that nobody nearby could even hear at all, unless they were similarly set up with beams on towers near the beach. When I used to operate the K2XR contest station in Warren County, where we had five towers and eleven beams on a very quiet hilltop overlooking half the state, I could commonly hear and work stuff that only maybe 2% of the people on the band (whatever band) could, and it was obvious. That's the difference between winning contests and just participating in them.
And the differences aren't small...they're staggering.
I recall having my "CQ" answered by an EK2 on 40 meters in the middle of the day. The station was strong, 599, and I figured it was a local "K2" station sending funny. It took a few times for me to realize the station calling was in Armenia, and nobody around was hearing him except me and one other large contest station in Maryland. So, we both made that contact, which nobody else in our area made at all -- I'm sure nobody else heard the EK2. Having a beam at 90 feet over a very clear hilltop, at a very quiet location, helps.
As we get more deeply entrenched in any activity (like ham radio), sometimes we just want "more." That's the time to start looking for covenant-free properties! And New Jersey has lots of them...I know, I owned four of them, myself -- all great ham radio locations with zero restrictive covenants, in very nice areas with great access to the highways, cities and airports.
Most of us "starting out" were completely thrilled with whatever we used, that's for certain. As a young teenager with no ham radio budget but a lot of enthusiasm, even though I had no CC&Rs I did not have good antennas and worked the world using "junk." That does build operating skills...!
Keep up the good work!
WB2WIK/6
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by NW9T on July 5, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Good article, and acknowledges the fact that attic antennas do work, as long as you don't have a metal roof over your head.
I'm temporarily living in a family member's home who wishes no outdoor antennas be constructed, so my needs are similar to yours. I've tried a number of attic antennas of various designs and even the best I've come up with seems to have a limit of about 5,000 miles. Possibly due to the low height of about 20 feet more than anything else. My most recent antenna has been a 20 meter inverted Vee up there which seems to work well into Europe, Central & South America and into the Caribean as well as a little NW Africa. However Australia, New Zealand, Other S. Pacific Islands and Asia were only a dream.
Then the other night I did hear a New Zealand station coming in on 20 meters SSB, but barely above the noise level and certainly not strong enough to work. I decided to try to put a 20 meter 2 element beam up there I made from wire. The next night the same New Zealand Station was on, but this time considerably over the noise level. However another stateside Ham began to QSO just a little up the dial and totally wiped out any reception of the NZ station. When that QSO was over the NZ Station was gone. A little later I heard another station from Norfolk Island Australia, even stronger and figured I'd give him a try. On my fifth attempt in the pile-up he caught my callsign. We exchanged signal reports and names, and I've now broken that 5,000 mile barrier for my personal best here with an indoor antenna and 100 watts, on SSB Phone of just under 8,400 miles! THAT makes me happy!
Now if I could just figure out a way to rotate the house...
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by K0RGR on July 5, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Congratulations on finding a way to get on HF and have fun. It sounds like your wire antennas work better than mine, but mine are height challenged.
Yes, there are just different levels of ham station.
When I was a kid, my dad had a 50 foot tower, and we worked quite a bit of DX. But the guy a few blocks away had a 72 foot tower, and he could hear things we could only imagine. The guys with the 100 footers could hear things the 72 foot guys couldn't hear.
Then, one time, our club got a tour of the station belonging to the ham who lived on top of the nearby mountain at about 3000 foot elevation, with a very large 20 meter array.
In the middle of the day, he was hearing stations in the Indian Ocean - and they were as strong as the W4's we heard with our stations at home.
I've often wondered what those guys with the huge towers and 8 stacked yagis on 20 meters can hear.
Someday, I will have at least a 72-footer of my own. But in the meantime, my wire antennas at 30 feet will do.
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by AI4IT on July 5, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Your not understanding "why" this gentleman lives in a CC&R community adds little if anything to what he has posited. "Why ask why" may be the question you never got answered by a relative? I don't know and do not care to; the issue isn't why he is where he is, but where he goes in faith and forward from where he is. It isn't a question, but rather an expectant attitude that he seems to be engaging exceedingly well. He doesn't have a problem, but rather a decision to make and it sounds like he's made one if not several. Perhaps if you made a couple of positive attitudinal changes your perspective might move towards the positive.
Get over what he can't change and get in to what you can!
NN4P
Brian Jett
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by N7YA on July 6, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I have to say, Chip brought up a good point. The material all around your indoor antenna, namely above it, will affect the signal...but its still do-able.
I live in a CCR community and have to run 100 watts to an indoor dipole in the attic as well, but i have certain obstacles and hazards to contend with. My roof is of standard construction, 3/4" roofing sheet covered in Lifetile, the wire is strung along the crown beam as much as i can get it...but it shares the space with 2 AC units and a bunch of ducting. it took me all day to hang the thing, double check my work (yes, i used insulated wire), and look for any possible fire hazard...enough to show it to my landlord who also lives in the house and is no dummy himself. But i have to say, i can still work DX, and im willing to bet that this indoor dipole will work just fine in a couple of years when the cycle revs up.
The bottom line over here is that i have the best system i can install at the moment...within my means, but im always looking...it basically gets me on the air and allows me to have fun. One dipole, a good tuner, a low pass filter and a good rig and im on the air on all bands from 160-10. If you have set up your system and have exhausted all possibilities, but it works, then be happy and run with it for a while. When you get down to it, if you really want to get on the air, as with anything you want to achieve, just find a way and get it done. in the case of ham radio antennas, just make sure the end result is your own enjoyment, dont forget about this little fact.
73...Adam, N7YA
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by K6YE on July 6, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Steve - WB2WIK/6
>Most of us "starting out" were completely thrilled >with whatever we used, that's for certain. As a >young teenager with no ham radio budget but a lot of >enthusiasm, even though I had no CC&Rs I did not >have good antennas and worked the world >using "junk." That does build operating skills...!
You really hit the nail on the head. We also had a heck of a lot of fun.
Vince,
Great article! Five stars.
Kudos to those who must live in HOA/CC&R environments and make the best of it. When we moved to Colorado in 2004, we made it a point to buy a newer home sans restrictions. Since we are retired, living near a "job" was not a requirement. That cut down on a major restriction.
I joined the Mile High DX Association and learned that there are a few hams, within the club, in restricted neighborhoods that are doing okay with stealth antennas.
For sure, "where there is a will, there is a way."
Semper Fi,
Tommy - K6YE
DX IS
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W6EM on July 6, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Great story.
Assuming you are using a 100W transmitter, and are using 50 Ohm coax, the voltage induced at full power on the secondary of your balun/4-to-1 transmformer is roughly 150V if your load impedance is 200 Ohms. If, and I say if, the actual impedance fed is much higher, for example, 1000 Ohms, well, a little more than 300V. Is that the highest voltage to be encountered on your antenna? Perhaps not, especially if tuner fed and non resonant.
Whatever you do, provide plenty of air gap (no, not PVC wire insulation) between unshielded antenna leads and anything that could be a path to ground especially when damp. Why? arcing could occur and if repeated often enough, could cause a fire.
Especially where you choose to exit the attic and go outside. A metal ceiling ventillator can be coulpled to the antenna wire, if its touching the thin PVC low voltage insulation and arc to the wood beneath it via nails, etc.
I used to have an attic inverted vee (under a ceramic tile roof--yes, it worked well as long as no rain) and went out of my way to insulate the endpoints and make sure there was plenty of air between the balun and its rafter support. I didn't have a floor to walk on, I just carefully bridged the ceiling joists to get to where I needed to tie the insulated ends off.
Good luck with your antenna adventures and beating the HOA policemen. Where I lived in FL, the local Architectural Board went inspecting frequently to find violators (and punish them to the fullest extent of the CC&Rs).
One of the best legal dodges I know of is an outdoor clothesline. In FL, for example, state law mandates that CC&Rs cannot restrict or prohibit an outdoor clothesline or other solar devices. Just make it long and insulated at the approriate points and hang a sock or two off it if the HOA complains....
Or, install a small passive solar heater with a vertical PVC "surge tube" pipe section. Of course, putting a vertical inside the pipe won't draw any attention. And, whether you have any water in the pipe isn't anybody's business but yours.
73,
Lee
W6EM
(I finally live in a place that the CC&Rs are old enough that only structures and fences are restricted).
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by KI4ENS on July 6, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Just a quick remark on wire insulation. Any THNN, MTW etc wire which is listed to UL standards, is rated at 600 VAC for insulation breakdown. MTW is rated for moisture. So stay within those limits and you should be fine. Or use insulated standoffs etc.
Also there are some classes of cable which are rated at 300 VAC, so check the specs before buying. Its usually printed on the cable or the spool.
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by WB2WIK on July 6, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug! Reply
by W6EM on July 6, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Great story.
Assuming you are using a 100W transmitter, and are using 50 Ohm coax, the voltage induced at full power on the secondary of your balun/4-to-1 transmformer is roughly 150V if your load impedance is 200 Ohms. If, and I say if, the actual impedance fed is much higher, for example, 1000 Ohms, well, a little more than 300V. Is that the highest voltage to be encountered on your antenna? Perhaps not, especially if tuner fed and non resonant.<
::Doesn't matter if it's tuner fed, resonant or non-resonant, the highest voltage points are the ends of the wires farthest from the feedpoint. Voltage at the "tips" of a dipole used with a 100W transmitter can easily be 1000V -- or higher.
This is the location where most "antenna fires" start, by igniting combustibles near the antenna element tips.
WB2WIK/6
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by WR8D on July 6, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Years ago in my first solar cycle i converted a cb three element beam to ten meters. I worked the world on ten but renting a place in the middle of a small cramped up town is just as bad as living somewhere that there are CC&R stuff. I got a rf complaint filed on me from a few there but they made the mistake of saying i was a cber. "hi hi". Back then the fcc handled complaints on cbers too. I was general class though but everyone knew that was a cb antenna on the top of the house. After the official paper complaint was filed and i had contacted the engineer in charge they'd call in on me every day. Problem was it was'nt me at all. There were cbers in town running illegal power but none of those guys had an antenna on the tops of their houses so i got all the attention. One night i climbed up on top of the house and cut the coax just below the rotor where the slack was taped for it to be able to rotate around. Then for the next week i only rotated it around from time to time. Sure enough the fcc was still getting phone in complaints that i was wrecking the local tvs and sterios etc. I told the engineer in charge about what i had done to prove my point that it was'nt me causing the rfi. He really got pissed about it and got pissed at me for doing what i was doing to make my point with him. "hi hi". There's a lot to be said for stealth antennas. I got out of there and bought my first place..set myself up a nice tower with a tribander on the top and it all started again. By then i was advance class working on extra and all the neighbors started calling the cable company about me being on their tvs. The cable company told them i was a cber running illegal power and they didn't need to do anything to their system because it was rf proof and if they could get me to stop running illegal power the problem would go away.
Boy that brought the redneck out of me when i heard what was being said. I called the fcc and explained what was going on to the engineer on the other end. "This was all before Riley" He ask me for the cable companys number and ask that i stand by the phone for just a few minutes. In less than ten minutes the head dude at the cable company was calling me "sucking up" and asking what they could do to fix "their" problem. It took them seven days running new trunks and drop lines to each home with a ground at each house to fix it. After it was all over the reps from the cable company ask me to never move away from there because they didn't want to have to do that somewhere else. "lol".
We've all got to just make do with what we have. We don't need to let people run over us though and living out in the country as i do now, will not keep you safe from complaints. I have close friends though living in CC&R neighborhoods and most complain about some old bat that lives on the next lot watching every move they make. Myself i just could'nt live like that with eyes always on me and neighbors being able to tell me what i can do or not do with my property. Here a nice three bedroom home on 2 acres can be had for 70k. I can just imagine the cost of this same home on 2 acres in the big city and a CC&R neighborhood. Same house, same dirt in the ground but the sky would be the limit on the price. Probably a couple of hundred k on the price tag. I guess if you like city living a CC&R neighborhood is right up your alley. Country living though is where it's at. I have to echo the comments of a few above CC&R- Bah Humbug!
73 John WR8D
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by KR4EY on July 6, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Yes. I live in a Condo and I say Bah Humbug all the time!!!
I have a Ventenna HFp Vertical I set outside all the time, mostly at night. .
In the CQ WW CW Contest I worked at least 30 countries.
To name a few... 4N4 on 40 Meters, 5T5 on 20 Meters, S5 on 15 Meters and CX on 10 Meters.
Casual contacts. 5W, ZL and KH6 on 30 Meters.
It's not as good as a dipole at 50 feet, but works very good. Most of the time, if I can hear them I can work them!!
Say NO to CC&Rs
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by KF8ZN on July 6, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I face the same CC&R's, but went to the HOA Board, touting the usefulness of Amateur Radio, and showed them a drawing of an Inverted L, 45 foot up in a tree, 60 feet horizontal to the peak of one Gable. Thier Response?? "That's a piece of WIRE, not an ANTENNA"
So I got my little permission slip frrom the Architectural Committee, which I keep in a fireproof box along with other valuables =0)
Fed with an SGC Smart-Tuner buried at the base of the tree, worked against several 30-50 foot radials of insulated green 14 gauge solid pinned to the ground.
I should also mention one big PLUS...GET INVOLVED!! When I first bought the home, I was scared to death of dealing with a Homeowners' Association, so I chose to run for the Board, and now I am The President.
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by W6EM on July 6, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KI4ENS said:"Just a quick remark on wire insulation. Any THNN, MTW etc wire which is listed to UL standards, is rated at 600 VAC for insulation breakdown. MTW is rated for moisture. So stay within those limits and you should be fine. Or use insulated standoffs etc.
Also there are some classes of cable which are rated at 300 VAC, so check the specs before buying. Its usually printed on the cable or the spool."
I've written many insulation specs in my time. A 60Hz rating isn't necessarily good at RF. PVC (THHN high temp PVC with Nylon jacket) and oil-resistant Machine Tool Wire (MTW) aren't designed as RF insulators. They're full of lossy clays and fillers that can have very high power factors at RF and thus heat up and crack and fail. Also, when PVC heats to temperatures above 100C, it gives off anhydrous HCL acid gas. Copper in the vicinity becomes covered with green goo really quickly.
Very high voltages can develop at high impedance points and to assume that 600V 60Hz RMS insulation ratings are adequate is chancy at best.
A ham friend fried and summarily melted to commercially made end insulators. How? Non resonant operation and some moisture. Those insulators had a creapage distance of about 5 inches across their skirts. And, you think 50 mils worth of filled PVC can do better?
Like I said earlier, you need lots of air or equivalent distances of at least several inches even at moderate power levels with non resonant, high impedance antennas. Otherwise, I hope you have good insurance coverage and the insurance company doesn't really look carefully for the point of fire origin.......
73,
Lee
W6EM/4
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by K8MHZ on July 6, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"I have used indoor inverted v's and small transmitting loops to great effect.And #27 magnet wire in outdoor runs over 130 feet.Sure, it stretches.But it works and is nearly invisible.Good Job OM!Great article!"
Are you aware of the fact that such a practice is in violation of the NEC?
If you don't agree contact your local NJATC and ask an instructor there to read you the NEC's requirements for an amateur radio installation. Or call your local electrical inspector and ask him or her to read that part of the NEC to you. I suggest the former as the inspector may just come up with a way to fine you for such an infraction.
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by AH6FC on July 6, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Good article. You can work wonders even with CC&R's. DXCC is pretty easy with a decent HF vertical that you raise and lower, as the sun sets and rises, hi hi.
Particularly to the new hams, if you live where you've got CC&R's be creative as you look for your new QTH. To those looking for property, NEVER BUY WHERE CC&R'S EXIST...YOU ARE LIKELY TO REGRET IT!
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by KC8VWM on July 8, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
by W7ETA
Nice prose.
Good article.
A+ for a positive contribution.
73
Bob
Come to think of it, I haven't spin any CCR albums in a while. Maybe later today?
------------
Antenna restrictions got you down? Might I suggest listening to something like "Lookin'Out My Back Door."
When the CC&R neighbors come knocking about the RFI you might be generating you could listen to my CCR favorite, "Before You Accuse Me."
I suppose if your into EME you might try listening to "Bad Moon Rising"
So who'll stop the sunspots?
Alright, ok, i'll stop now...
:) 73 de Charles - KC8VWM
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by K5LXP on July 9, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Even with the modest antennas that I run, I can repeatedly demonstrate the difference the antenna can make. Stations that are S-9 on the tribander at 60ft can sometimes drop to the noise floor on any other antenna I select. Usually the difference isn't so dramatic, but whenever I have other ham visitors to the shack, invariably I can find that one DX station running a pileup, and the only antenna that picks him up is the tribander on the tower. Can't work 'em if you can't hear 'em, and if you're running compromise antennas close to the ground, you're missing a lot. Maybe it's not important to your style of operating and that's fine, but if you think you have it all because the miracle wonder wire antenna you just bought lets you "work everything you hear", remember that you're not hearing everything.
Vince, nice article and I think it serves as a great example to many new hams out there, especially how it demonstrates how much better an outdoor antenna works vs. indoor or attic. Your effort shows that even with an HOA, outdoor antennas are possible if you're willing to go through a little effort. The payoff is definitely worth it.
Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by NB3O on July 9, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I moved from northern Jersey to a small 20 acre patch on the side of a Virginia hill decades ago. Strung lots of loops and wire beams through the trees. Never had any problem with the neighbors...until I put the 40 meter beam on some Rohn 65G. Like WR8D, the field office received complaints about my TVI even when I was away on travel.
These days, when the local neighbors call me directly to complain about their TVI problems, I simply switch to the "other" hobby....shooting 50BMG rounds through the man-hole cover in the back yard. Seems to improve their reception for a month at a time.....
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by G3LBS on July 10, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
What do you give to the man who's got everything?
Penicillin
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by KD8ECB on July 12, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I can recall that my high school biology class had purchased pre-skinned cadaver cats for dissection, so that market may already be cornered.
But also admittedly, I just put up a 5BTV a few weeks ago and am still waiting to place radials. I have made fewer than a half dozen contacts with it, but the fading QSO I had with Venezuela was just about worth it. You see, for me, time is precious with two jobs and attending college, and I'm too short on time and cash for trial and error - so I stick with what I know works. Sadly, I've only turned on the radio about three times. But given the opportunity, there are two things I want to accomplish in ham radio: rebuild an old tube radio, and learn (and use) CW. For now, those things are only dreams, so I bought my radio (FT-897D), made my own 440/2/6m tower (with a lot of welding help from dad), having fun with QRP on the 5BTV, and hoping for the best in my sparse free time. So yes, you can say that I have a pre-skinned cat, but at least I have a cat!
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by WU5E on July 12, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Good job, hope it works that DXCC for you. Myself I moved out of the city to pay high gas prices just so I could put up my Force 12 Beam and gun DX out of the sky.
73's
de Jim
WU5E
23 YEARS RETIRED ARMY
WORKING IN IRAQ AT THE TIME
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by KB3HJK on July 13, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
First off - great and inspiring article!
I'm in a high rise building, ground floor apartment. Use a Sigma-5 and an Isotron for 40, brought back in when finshed transmitting. The neighbors have no idea what I'm doing. One looked out her window and asked if the Isotron was for mosquitoes! I mentioned that I use it to talk around the world and she just said "Ohhhh, really?" Have never heard a peep from any of them since.
|
|   |
|
RE: CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by WB5YDK on July 15, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Good article. I once lived in a CC&R neighborhood while using an outdoor antenna made of very thin wire. Throughout the Spring, Summer and Fall, nobody noticed the almost invisible wire strung overhead.
Then, one Winter morning, I awakened after an ice storm had passed through. My little wire antenna was clearly visible as a solid beam of ice; suspended, as if by magic, in mid-air. Several curious neighbors questioned what it was, so I told them.
Nothing ever happened after my confession: I suppose the neighbors really didn't care. In truth, there was only one "busy-body" neighbor who regularly terrorized any CC&R violators in the neighborhood, anyway. She must have not noticed the iced-up antenna.
|
|   |
|
CC&R? -- Bah Humbug!
|
|
|
by WB7RBN on July 18, 2007
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Put up a flag pole and fly the flag. As an American you have the right to flag. Read the US Government legistration concerning flying the flag in RL30243, especailly the last paragraph. The flag pole can double as an antenna as log as it meets local and state regulations concerning safety.
|
|   |
|
Email Subscription
You are not subscribed to discussions on this article.
Subscribe!
My Subscriptions
Subscriptions Help
Related News & Articles
Magnetic Minds Think Alike
My First...
But Gee, How Can I Have a Vertical and a Horizontal Antenna Too?
Small Back Yard Antenna Politics
Let's Do Ground Planes Again
Other Antennas Articles
Running Radials the Easy Way -- Sew What?
The Worry and Apprehension of VHF Antenna Polarization
'No Show' HF Antenna that WORKS!
The Eagle Has Landed
My Quest for a New Antenna
|
|
|