My Famous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
jeff (N3JBH)
on
September 28, 2007
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It has appeared to me that there are some folks that simply just don't know how to water proof their PL-259 connections. I have developed my three-step process, as I like to call it. -- Although there is well maybe more than three steps.
But first for the shopping list of items we shall need:
We will need- 1 roll of Scotch super 33+ ™ t
Scotch Rubber Mastic Tape 2228 ™
And Scotch brand splicing Tape 2155 (tm)
Bottle of rubbing alcohol
Now that we have the necessary hardware we first make sure that are PL-259 is securely attached to its opposing connector. And then take a towel and clean all outer surfaces with the rubbing alcohol. We just want to remove any oil and dirt; we don't need to make it surgically clean. Now wrap a layer of the scotch mastic tape starting one inch behind the PL-259 on the coax and continue wrapping over the connector And it's opposing surface. Being sure to overlap each turn by half.
The second step we will repeat the same wrapping style only using the splicing compound and beginning where we left off with the mastic tape and going towards the coax. Make this go one-inch further down the coax from where you started with the mastic tape.
The final step is over wrap every thing you all ready done with the Scotch super 33+
Tape again starting inch below where you ended with the splicing compound and over lapping each turn by half a wrap.
Okay, I admit this is over doing it a bit. But I never had this method fail. And while I will freely admit I have not done thousands of these on antennas. I used this same exact method in weather proofing electrical connections that was exposed to some really harsh conditions. And that's where I discovered just how great it worked. After removing the covering I made on them some 15 years latter they looked as great as the day I made them.
So there it is fellows. No reason now for not knowing how to water proof the PL-259!
Jeff N3JBH
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My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by LNXAUTHOR on September 28, 2007
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- tks! i love the 33 tape (use it to finish handlebar wraps on road bicycles), so i'll have to check out your process...
- i've used Plasti-Dip in the past, which seems to hold up, but once you open a can it seems to dry out no matter how well sealed...
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KD5NVC on September 28, 2007
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I use 3M scotch 130C linerless rubber splicing tape, handles high voltage, temp and any condition known. I use two wraps, one direction then the other using the same overlaping as you mentioned.
73
Glenn
kd5nvc
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KX8N on September 28, 2007
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Someone may want to change the title, because "infamous" means it's famous for being bad.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by NI0C on September 28, 2007
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There's a famous line from Henry Fonda in the movie, "Once Upon a Time in the West," where he asks a man why he feels the need to wear both a belt and suspenders: "Here's a man who doesn't even trust his own pants."
That's how I feel about any multiple layer process for waterproofing coax. I use nothing more than Coax Seal, and it works for me.
But thanks for sharing your favorite method-- it's an important topic, and I'm sure you will get other suggestions in the discussion that follows.
73,
Chuck NI0C
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KB9CRY on September 28, 2007
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Personally I use a similar method:
1 wrap of 33
1 wrap of 130C
2 wraps of 33
Works like a champ and always bright and shiny on the inside. Also easy to remove.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by AD5X on September 28, 2007
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I use Liquid Electrical Tape from Home Depot. Easy to brush on, easy to peel off, and lasts for years.
Phil - AD5X
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KT8K on September 28, 2007
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I know the acetic acid in bathtub caulk is supposed to be bad, but I used to get away with making a glob of it around my outdoor connections, including PL-259 barrel splice connections outdoors (several lying on the ground, and one of them lying right on the sidewalk we used to get to the garage). Those connections lasted a decade or more, and when I cut away the blob of silicone were as clean and shiny as the day I encapsulated them. I know that's not a recommended approach, but that's what I did back then.
At the new house all my outdoor connections are pigtails to the antennas, and I use a better, less corrosive caulk. No water in the coax yet. I have used electrical tape (decades ago) and it always dried up and blew away. I do think I'll get a spray can of clear coat, though, just to add the "suspenders" (after I see what other methods people describe here).
73 & best rx de kt8k - Tim
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by G3LBS on September 28, 2007
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Better not to use coax - use twin feeder
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by G3LBS on September 28, 2007
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Better not to use coax - use twin feeder
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N3EF on September 28, 2007
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And here's my method, also using a combination of rubber tape and vinyl tape. The rubber tape goes tacky side out as recommended by the manufacturer.
http://home.comcast.net/~fairbank56/wxproofing.html
Eric N3EF
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by K1CJS on September 28, 2007
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Phil beat me to it--I also use brush on Liquid Electrical Tape. Seems to work well and stands up to New England coastal weather pretty well for the short time I have it up.
I break down my antennas every couple of years for maintenance, and the connectors look like they're new even if the aluminum elements are surface corroded from the weather (I found I have to break them down because the antennas I have were used and weathered when I got them).
If someone had the intentions to leave antennas up even longer (I know its preferable if on a tall tower), your method would provide more protection--which would probably be needed because the brush on stuff does seem to wear and probably wouldn't last more than a couple of years. 73.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KB1LKR on September 28, 2007
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"I know the acetic acid in bathtub caulk is supposed to be bad..."
That's why they also make alkoxy (or "non-corrosive" or "neutral cure" or electronics potting") RTV silicones. Not always available at the local hardware store, but from electronics manufacturing supply houses -- worth looking for if you're using silicones.
There's also Scotch 88 tape, even heavier than Scotch 33, and 3M also makes silicone splicing tapes for wrapping outdoor splices/connnections -- available at any electrical wholesaler.
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My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by W8ATA on September 28, 2007
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This is a good topic. Two other products you may want to try in your sealing processes are:
Permatex has a non-acetic cure black silicone. www.permatex.com.
Nashua "Stretch & Seal" silicone sealing tape. Available at Home Depot.
www.covcorp.com
I am about to try the "Stretch & Seal" as the first layer on some new PL-259's.
73,
Russ
W8ATA
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by K0BG on September 28, 2007
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Well, I used to use 3M 33+ and even 99, the high temp stuff. Not any more. Good old Rescue Tape (http://www.rescuetape.com/) is easier to apply, is as water proof, will withstand higher temperatures, and when it's time to remove it, it comes right off with no gooey mess!
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by W8ATA on September 28, 2007
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When Alan, K0BG, speaks I listen up and I have urged fellow hams to do the same. Before I use the Stretch & Seal I mentioned above, I am off to find the tape wizzard and some Rescue Tape. Thanks Alan for all your contributions to this great hobby. And thanks Jeff for starting this article.
73,
Russ
W8ATA
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KG6WLS on September 28, 2007
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Also, 3M Scotchkote (the liquid stuff). FWIW
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by K5LXP on September 28, 2007
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I find that people who go through extreme measures to waterproof their connections don't have a lot of experience gouging through that gooey mess changing an antenna while hanging from the top of a tower. For my own stuff, 3 passes of vinyl tape, 1/2 overlapped will last at least a decade. Commercial stuff gets wrapped with Coax Seal, then wrapped with vinyl tape. Yes, you can "overkill" it with plasti-dip, silicone, etc but it doesn't make it any *more* waterproof, it costs more, takes more time, and it just makes disassembly that much harder. If all of that goop and fancy tape was worth it, you'd see it used commercially.
Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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RE: My Famous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N1LO on September 28, 2007
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Hi Jeff,
Sounds like a bombproof method. The 33+ plus really stands up well against UV. I'm not familiar with the 2228 and 2155 products. Are they gooey or difficult to remove?
I also vote for the Scotch 130C, which you can find at the home centers next to the Scotch Super 33+. It removes pretty cleanly by carefully scoring it lengthwise.
One important point is to perfect your wrapping technique to avoid any wrinkles in the tape overwraps that would channel water. When going over the uneven lumps of connectors, you have to stretch the tape quite a bit.
I also like to dab a bit of dielectric grease (spark plug boot grease) on the center contacts and threads to exclude oxygen. Its overly expensive alter-ego is sometimes called "Stuf".
You can also start with a reversed wrap of the 33+. Stick it down, give it a half-twist, and make your first overwrap very tight, with the adhesive out. This way, even if you use gooey Coax-Seal or commercial butyl rubber vapor wrap, removal is c l e a n.
You pointed out what I think is one of the most important things: each successive overwrap extends beyond the previous one.
--...MARK_N1LO...--
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N3OX on September 28, 2007
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"Before I use the Stretch & Seal I mentioned above, I am off to find the tape wizzard and some Rescue Tape. "
I think maybe they're the same thing, more or less.
Not sure... is Rescue Tape a self fusing silicone tape too?
I got some stretch and seal recently and I can't comment on its long term effectiveness yet but it seems to make a good seal.
Dan
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by K1CJS on September 28, 2007
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"If all of that goop and fancy tape was worth it, you'd see it used commercially."
One reason you do not see that is the cost of the stuff is usually more than regular plain electrical tape. People who do their own installations want them to last--period. Commercial installers just care about getting the job done. That's why they won't use the better means of weatherproofing connections--tape is just fine for their purposes.
The brush on electrical 'tape' doesn't leave a 'sticky, gooey mess'. It may be a little hard to remove, but is better than silicone seal which tends to stick permanently or electrical tape which does leave a mess.
Mark, I agree that 'extreme' measures aren't really needed, but there again, I don't think brush on electrical 'tape' is an extreme measure.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KG6AMW on September 28, 2007
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As a couple of posters already noted, why use strips of tape or whatever when liquid electrical tape forms a perfect seal?
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KR4WM on September 28, 2007
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Apparently we don't have many aquarium keepers here- the silicone rubber caulk sold at pet shops for sealing leaky aquariums is acid-free because if it had acid, it could harm the fish.
About the liquid electrical tape- I once had a trap yagi and the trap caps deteriorated. I painted over them with the liquid tape. It lasted about two years, then began peeling and flaking. When I brought down the antenna, the stuff literally fell off in my hands. I can't recommend it if it's going to be exposed to the Carolina sun. If taped over with vinyl tape, it lasts a good bit longer.
-KR4WM
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RE: My Famous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N3JBH on September 28, 2007
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Hello Mark first i should note that Scotch 130-C tape is a perfectly fine splicing tape. Proballaby better then my suggestion. I just all ways used the other tape i made note too. Now Your question is it gooey?
The first to applications will each vulcanize over time to them selves and each other. And in doing so they would produce a rather thick and some what sticky mass.
I am not sure i would want to label it gooey. But you will need to use a knife to cut a slice in to it and peel it open if you ever wanted to get it back off.
I like it as i consider it a rather permant fix to the problem. And i honestly never remove it unless i am replacing the cables.
As far as the use of the Scotch 33+. I dont beleive it serves much benefeit to the process once the other to layers have cured and vulcanized.
I only added it to the process to protect the other tapes till the have done there job.
Well i hope i have answered that question properly. Jeff
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RE: My Famous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by WB2WIK on September 28, 2007
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I've tried "everything" in 42 years of installing outdoor antennas, many of which aren't very reachable (up tall masts over the tops of tall towers).
What I settled on is properly installing connectors, properly seating them and torquing them to mate, then making a drip loop of the coax immediately below that connection, and just leaving it open (no tape, no sealant, no anything).
This has been working with 100% reliability on every outdoor antenna I have, including those installed 10 years ago.
I replace coaxial cable about every 10 years (except for hardline/Heliax, but those use specialized connectors which are very waterproof anyway), so I don't need an outdoor connection to last longer than that.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: My IN-Famous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by K5UJ on September 28, 2007
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More important, why are hams trying to adapt something that doesn't work well to begin with and should be retired for outdoor use? This is like trying to run windows vista on a 15 year old PC. Why not simply start using N or DIN connectors outside, or as somoeone else posted, using ladderline?
It's time for hams to catch up with the rest of the RF world, who stopped using UHF connectors years ago.
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RE: My Famous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KC8HXO on September 28, 2007
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Try this one: (Works even in Saltwater marine environs).
Get clear flexible plastic tubing that fits OVER the entire connection.
Put about 3 inches of it over the connection.
Pump window/door caulk into the tubing from both ends, until it's full.
You are done until you want to take it apart. (And it "takes apart" very easily with a sharp knife).
Do it right, and it'll hold up UNDER WATER!!
Don't knock it until you try it!!
73- Greg, KC8HXO
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RE: My Famous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by WA4DOU on September 28, 2007
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Jeff,
The technique you described is very similar to the techniques we use in land mobile radio and serves well for decades if done properly. I have been known to add a fourth step and slide heat shrink tubing over the sealed joint(the kind that oozes glue out when heat is applied).
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by WA4DOU on September 28, 2007
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There's a famous line from Henry Fonda in the movie, "Once Upon a Time in the West," where he asks a man why he feels the need to wear both a belt and suspenders: "Here's a man who doesn't even trust his own pants."
What did he know Chuck? Charles Bronson dispatched him smartly at the end. A very good movie.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N3DOK on September 28, 2007
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Hi, Forget Coax Seal.Hard to remove. I found this product at Championradio. Vapor Wrap is what is used in the commerical communications field. Easy to use. Easy to remove. Makes Coax Seal look like silly putty!
http://www.championradio.com/
db Products Vapor Wrap
This is real live vapor wrap used by commercial installers on all outside RF connections. Made of butyl rubber, this is superior to CoaxSeal. Each package contains three sheets, each 3" by 12". Each sheet is enough for three barrel connector splices.
3 sheets of 3" x 12" for $9.00
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N3DOK on September 28, 2007
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Hi, Here is a reply from a fellow Amateur about how to seal coax connections. I forgot in my last posting that I have no connections with ant suppliers of the products I mentioned. Yes, shop around for the best price always.
Bob N3DOK
CoaxSeal, or similar products, is used as a vapor barrier to keep
moisture out of a coax connector joint. I'm not a big fan of CoaxSeal
because it's not a quality vapor wrap like what professional communications
installers use. Tower Tech carries a butyl rubber vapor wrap by db Products,
a supplier of professional communications products and we sell it by the
foot. It runs $3.00 per foot (it's 3 inches wide).
The most important thing to remember when using any material like this is
that you need to apply electrical tape over the connector FIRST, and then
apply the vapor wrap. Putting CoaxSeal directly on the connector renders the
connector unusable if you ever try to reuse it -- it just gunks everything
up. Put 2 layers of tape over the vapor wrap and that'll give you a
professional, bombproof joint.
Here's aother hint: apply the last layer of electrical tape (you are
using Scotch 33 or 88, aren't you?) so that it runs UP the coax. That way
water will run down the layers of tape and not INTO them. It's like shingles
on your roof; if the tape is applied in a downward direction, the tape laps
actually channel running water into the joint.
BTW, ScotchKote is a liquid that is applied to the electrical tape when
you finished the above steps and it gives additional weather proofing to the
joint. By coincidence, Tower Tech has it for $16.00 per bottle.
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My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by W4VR on September 28, 2007
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Jeff - you are correct, it is overkill. What I've been doing for many years is wrapping the connector with Scotch 33, then going over with two layers of electrical tape to keep the Scotch tape from unwrapping. I have never had a problem with water getting in my connections outside. I've also used liquid tape but the scotch tape is more durable over time. Where the Scotch/tape method works well is in those instances where you may have to place a barrel connector in your transmission line above or below ground level.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KD5PKS on September 28, 2007
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Someone here posted that commercial antenna and tower workers use plain old tape because it's cheap and works great. The only thing true in that statement is it's cheap. Almost every commercial installation I've seen ( at least done by professionals) has used butyl rubber vapor seal. Most will put a thin wrap of electrical tape followed by the butyl rubber tape, then a good sealing of rubber tape. It's rare to have a water damaged cable or connector and I've been exposed to thousands done in this manner. The one's that were damaged were the one's that someone used liquid tape or just tape on.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KB9CRY on September 28, 2007
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Scotch 33 (or the thicker 88) IS electrical tape.
It is the only tape any licensed electrician uses because it is of good quality.
The cheap stuff is just that. I always use Scotch brand tape.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by WB2WIK on September 28, 2007
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It seems to me most hams way overdo this.
If your outdoor PL-259 connections "leak," it's mostly because the connectors weren't installed properly.
The fact is, the PL-259 has an airtight seal at its cable end (where the connector threads onto the cable jacket), and another airtight seal where the male and female threads mate for more than four threads which by definition creates an airtight seal. There's another airtight seal where the four solder holes in the connector body are filled with reflowed solder that was properly applied and scrubbed. The only place water can leak in is at the rear (cable) end of the connector shell, where there is a very small (.015") gap after mated connectors are assembled.
That gap is small enough that its opposing surface tension to water overcomes water's ability to penetrate the gap at 1 atmosphere pressure, as long as there's no water already inside the connector to attract the water from the outside and reduce surface tension ("wicking").
I've done live demos dozens of times at hamfests, including Dayton, where I attach two PL-259 cable assemblies to a double female PL-258 "barrel" adapter, screw them together snugly, add no tape or anything else, and submerse the assembly in a small fishtank filled with water then put 1 kW RF through it with no ill effects. Removing the assembly from beneath the water and unscrewing the connectors in front of witnesses, the "insides" are always bone dry: Water never penetrated.
This won't work down 100 feet under the ocean where outside pressure is significantly higher, but it works fine at sea level or above.
In every case of water ingress past coaxial connectors I've ever seen, inspection revealed the connectors were never assembled properly onto the cable(s) in the first place. Most of those I could pull apart with my bare hands before they were ever exposed to any water.
The one exception: If a PL-259 is screwed onto an SO-239 that has a cracked insulator (in the female) and water leaked down through that because it was under pressure from a source above it, that could cause the PL-259 to fill with water -- for sure. And I've seen this happen. However, in such a case, all the tape in the world would not have prevented it.
If people would concentrate on using proper connectors, tools and assembly techniques they wouldn't have to worry much about weatherproofing.
I'm on the air every day using a lot of antennas that have coaxial connectors and no tape or other sealants.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by W3JJH on September 28, 2007
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'WIK is absolutely correct about the PL-259 being water-resistant if it is properly assembled.
It only needs to be water-proofed if it will be submerged or subjected to being hosed down with water under significant pressure. Water-proofing of the cable entry can be easily done with shrink tubing. This gives a seal that won't interfere with installing or removing the connector.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N3JBH on September 28, 2007
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Hello Steve wb2wik/6
Steve I am sure if you followed any my comments on this site you will see I have a very high respect towards you. I think you’re a very wise man and very fourth coming on use full information. And my comments that shall follow are not to imply any disrespect at all. And I sure hope that you or any of the readers on the site will take it as such.
I have seen Allan’s K0BG most wonderful presentation on installing the PL-259. Personally I think Alan done a remarkable job on his presentation. I all so took notice that you had no comments on his presentation. Of course I would agree again it was very well done with really top notch photos.
But it appears to me that you don’t agree that it is necessary to add any external methods of water proofing the PL-259 or any common type coaxial connection for that matter.
I further more have read over various pages of post you have made over the years offering bits and pieces of quality information on how to do it properly.
So here is where I am getting to the point. Why don’t you put together a nice article to explain the proper methods of installing connectors one that shall include step by step instructions and photos of the steps so the rest of us could really learn the proper method.
Now in my closing comment to you Steve. I wish to make it perfectly clear to you and the fine reader base of this forum that I again do not mean this in any fashion to be nasty or disrespectful of you. I would just think it be really a great thing for you to do.
I for one would be most honored to read it. And I am sure other should be as well.
I thank you in advance for your thoughts on this Jeff N3JBH
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Coax Seal
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by AB0RE on September 28, 2007
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Coax Seal is available from Radio Shack. (Last time I checked, anyway. It may have gotten replaced with cell phone accessories. :)
I live in a pretty small town and the local hardware stores do not stock many of the Scotch products listed here. Nor are they available from my favorite mail order companies for project supplies (All Electronics, etc).
For now I'll stick with the Coax Seal. It's a bit more of a headache to remove it from the connector down the road, but it's a lot easier to acquire immediately when needed.
-Dan
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by K1CJS on September 28, 2007
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".....absolutely correct about the PL-259 being water-resistant if it is properly assembled."
It is true that waterproofing doesn't need to be done on a properly assembled 259 IF--and that is one big IF--it is properly AND COMPLETELY assembled. It pains me to note that a lot aren't. Some people only close two of the ports to join the co-ax outer braid with the shell, some, only one. Some of the cheaper ones aren't water resistant to begin with.
Also, the fact the connector is waterproofed is only true if the connector is a properly sized and machined connector. A lot of the knockoffs are NOT. How many times has it happened that the PL-259 shell has slipped off the threads of the socket because it is slightly too big?
The water resistance is only true of higher priced, quality connectors, and because some hams buy the cheaper ones, it IS necessary to waterproof the things. As a matter of fact, because of the chance that even a properly assembled quality connector has a gap somewhere--unintentionally--it may be a good idea to waterproof it anyway.
However you may see it, to weatherproof the connector may be a good idea if you're not sure of the quality of the thing.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N7YA on September 28, 2007
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>>It has appeared to me that there are some folks that simply just don't know how to water proof their PL-259 connections. I have developed my three-step process, as I like to call it. -- Although there is well maybe more than three steps.
But first for the shopping list of items we shall need:
We will need- 1 roll of Scotch super 33+ ™ t
Scotch Rubber Mastic Tape 2228 ™
And Scotch brand splicing Tape 2155 (tm)
Bottle of rubbing alcohol <<
...you forgot the bottle of scotch!
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KG6WOU on September 28, 2007
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Waterproofing the connectors is not expensive nor difficult and there are many ways to do it.
I've used liquid e-tape with great success - it's even good when you can let it partially cure then shrink-wrap tubing over it - talk about bombproof connections. It can be a pita to get undone, I'd hate to have to do it on top of a ladder or tower.
I've only used the soft-seal type sealant on one antenna so far and did not undertape it so I have no idea how it's going to un-do.
I feel the best use for liquid tape is sealing open coax ends and other irregular items like the backside of SO-239 panel mounts that DO leak - ask me about water in the coax....
also handy for some applications is spray on clear-coating paint - a couple of spritzes after everything's set tight.....Keeps the bare metal shiny for the connections...
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KC8ZEV on September 28, 2007
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3M makes the best tape in the world. Any kind of tape.
Medical, Electrical, Clear, Shipping, you name it they make it. With that said, I have used Coax Seal for years and have NEVER had a water issue. It remains soft(even in cold weather), comes off easily, and is inexpensive. I am certain the multi-layer tape method works, and I am glad to see quality tape is being used. Thank God that Duct tape (or even worse, "Duck Tape") has not been mentioned here. It isn't even worthy of space in a landfill.
The best antennas in the world suck if the connection has water in it.
Keep 'em dry.
73
KC8ZEV
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KE4DRN on September 28, 2007
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hi,
Perhaps the man wanted a backup ?
There's a famous line from Henry Fonda in the movie, "Once Upon a Time in the West," where he asks a man why he feels the need to wear both a belt and suspenders: "Here's a man who doesn't even trust his own pants."
73 james
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by WB2WIK on September 28, 2007
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Jeff, N3JBH, you are 100% right, and I agree with you: I should do an article on PL-259 assembly and take some photos, or make it a video or something.
It's really easy to do it right, but it's just as easy to do it wrong and most "ham" installations I see are actually wrong. Also, a few others suggested that inferior quality connectors are in common use by hobbyists, and that's true, too.
There's still another problem: Not only are some connectors inferior, but so are a lot of cables! Remember the PL-259, a brilliant but very old (60 years old) design, was intended for mil-spec cables having exactly the correct outside diameter (.40500") and also having very substantial outer conductor (braid) material coverage and thickness.
Since virtually none of the cables we're using today are "mil spec," this varies all over the place, making it anyone's guess as to whether the connector will fit properly snugly or not. If the coaxial cable is slightly undersized, even a mil-spec PL-259 connector won't thread onto its braid properly, to assure a watertight fit. If the braid isn't thick enough, it won't fit snugly inside the PL-259 body, allowing proper solder flow through the body holes into the braid.
Also, if the installer isn't using a soldering iron with sufficient mass to do the job, the solder will never reflow properly on the connector! I've found even 550W soldering "guns" won't do this job well. It takes a real "iron," not a gun. The PL-259 was invented well before the soldering "gun" was.
I'll be happy to do an article on this, with photos, and with a demo of how properly installed PL-259s, on the "right" kind of cable, makes a watertight fit that literally does work fine under water -- using my old fish tank demo.
Good idea!
Thanks
Steve WB2WIK/6
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by K6AER on September 28, 2007
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I use Universal Fit Products Fusion Connector tape #FT-3430. When stretched if fuses to itself to form a water proof seal. Tape has no adhesive so when removed it leaves no residue.
You can get it at Tessco Distribution. 30 ft for $8.00
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N6AJR on September 28, 2007
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Nice article , little brother, but I just leave them all a little loose, then any water that gets in can easily drain out..:)
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by K9KJM on September 28, 2007
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As already mentioned, N3JBH has pretty much described the way the pros are now weatherproofing coax connections. The only thing not mentioned is the importance of CUTTING the tape with a knife or sidecutters instead of just "pulling" it to break it off. IF you simply "pull" the tape to break it off the roll, You WILL have little "flags" of tape on your tower in future years as it unwinds itself.
The real thing, Andrew Corp. weatherproofing kits, # 221213 have been selling on Ebay recently for a song compared to the OEM prices.
The kit consists of the Butyl rubber tape (Or mastic) and a roll of 3/4 inch and a roll of 2 inch wide Scotch brand tape.
Note that money can be saved on the plain tape by getting the Harbor Freight Tools electrical tape on sale. That "low cost" tape works every bit as good as the high price brands. (But beware of some low cost tapes, I have also tried some off brand cheapies that are NO good!)
The liquid sealers mentioned really do NOT last very long before they start to crack and let moisture in.
Most only having a two or so year lifespan out in the harsh UV.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by G3LBS on September 29, 2007
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I just can't understand why you are using coax anyway - it's lossy and expensive - with open-wire line you don't need expensive time-consuming leaking connectors outdoors. Just check you have perfect current balance in the wires and use a Matchbox-like true-differential tuner (no balun) and the line does not radiate. No balun at antenna either.
RadioShack 300ohm twin is about 20 dollars for 100ft and I have put 1500 watts up it.
When I was a kid I put a few watts up some coax and the neighbors complained about the jet of steam (well water-vapor to be correct) - they thought it was an illicit oil refinery. The coax braid had turned green.
W2/G3LBS
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by G3LBS on September 29, 2007
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I just can't understand why you are using coax anyway - it's lossy and expensive - with open-wire line you don't need expensive time-consuming leaking connectors outdoors. Just check you have perfect current balance in the wires and use a Matchbox-like true-differential tuner (no balun) and the line does not radiate. No balun at antenna either.
RadioShack 300ohm twin is about 20 dollars for 100ft and I have put 1500 watts up it.
When I was a kid I put a few watts up some coax and the neighbors complained about the jet of steam (well water-vapor to be correct) - they thought it was an illicit oil refinery. The coax braid had turned green.
W2/G3LBS
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by VE2DSB on September 29, 2007
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Hello Guy's...
I use " Duck Seal" over all connector here. I never see water into it since many years. To protect Duck Seal from UV ray, I use electric tape but soon i'll use liquid tape.
73's
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N3JBH on September 29, 2007
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Thanks Steve, I am really happy you took statement the right way. I was worried it was worded wrong. I think it be a great article and I am sure it pleases the great majority of the readers.
Now to my Big Brother Tom, Thank you for the nice compliments as well. Claiming to be my big brother I wonder if your coax connection is the only thing loose how ever just kidding,. I could not have asked for a better one.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N3EF on September 29, 2007
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WB2WIK I agree that a properly installed pl-259 is fairly weatherproof as it is, but it is NOT airtight. Your theory does not hold up in the marine environment. As a marine electronics technician, I have installed hundreds of pl-259's and have seen firsthand what can happen if not sealed. In fact, very recently I pulled a piece of coax out of a sailboat mast and found that moisture had wicked up the entire 65' length of cable! The outer braid was completely corroded for the entire length and the cable had properly installed pl-259's on each end, but no further weatherproofing was done. There was no damage to the cable jacket to be found. Been doing this work for 31 years and believe me, finding a properly installed pl-259 is VERY rare! Iv'e seen water wick up several feet in coax cable many times before. It is amazing the places that water can get to. More so in the marine world where humidity levels can be very high and the aggresive nature of salt water corrosion can wreak havoc.
I made a little web page earlier this year showing how to install a pl-259 on rg-8 using a little known method of soldering with a soldering gun instead of an iron. I usually use a Weller SP120 or SP80 for doing them. I file the tip down so that it fits into the "channel" of the connector better. I'll have to do some more pics or maybe a video myself soon.
http://home.comcast.net/~fairbank56/solderpl.html
Eric N3EF
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KC0PHB on September 29, 2007
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TRY TURNING THE CAN UPSIDE DOWN AFTER YOU SECURE THE LID
LC
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N3DOK on September 29, 2007
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Hi,
On Eric N3EF website that he lists. Here is part of what was written:
When you place the body of the pl259 between the tip ends, you are sending several hundred amps of current through the pl259 causing it to heat up very quickly.
How can you have several hundred amps of current through the pl259?
The circuit fuse or current rating is either 15 or 20 amps.Also the power cord and the wirering of the Weller Iron would melt or burn up. So would the PL-259.
Also I have seen PL-259's that are factory made have water come in to the coax. The sun heats the coax. Water that comes in contact with the connector is sucked in through the smallest opening.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N3EF on September 29, 2007
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You need to read up on transformer theory. These soldering guns are nothing but a transformer with a single turn secondary winding which includes the tip.
Eric N3EF
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N3EF on September 29, 2007
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Sorry Bob, maybe your already up on xformer theory but didn't realize these guns operate on that principle.
Eric N3EF
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by K1DA on September 29, 2007
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AH N3DOK, a Weller gun has a stepdown transformer in it.
Perhaps that device wasn't covered in the three easy steps
to a license class, but you could look it up.
I agree with WIK that a good 259 shows a prety good seal though I don't turst the ring so I always tape it. I also put some wrapping on the coax end, starting with the coax to bring the diameter up to that of the shell and then wrapping over both. A little grease on the threads keeps water out of that area.
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My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by W8XI on September 29, 2007
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I worked for over 10 years as an electrician on tunnel jobs in Michigan. I made thousands of splices and repairs to cables that were used in extremely wet locations. if not submerged in water. In most cases, three layers of 33+ tape half-lapped, laid smoothly on the tap below will provide waterproof connections for years. The other suggested waterproofing techniques are good, but how many times have you climbed up the tower with every thing you need? A roll of scotch 33+ fit very nicely in a pocket. That's why good electricians have a roll handy to use at a moments notice.
PS With a little practice should be able to cleanly break the tape without resorting to a knife and less chance of cutting yourself. Ouch
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by W4VR on September 29, 2007
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"I've done live demos dozens of times at hamfests, including Dayton, where I attach two PL-259 cable assemblies to a double female PL-258 "barrel" adapter, screw them together snugly, add no tape or anything else, and submerse the assembly in a small fishtank filled with water then put 1 kW RF through it with no ill effects. Removing the assembly from beneath the water and unscrewing the connectors in front of witnesses, the "insides" are always bone dry: Water never penetrated."
Oh yeah! leave it in the fishtank for a month and see what happens...water will get in I promise you and it does not matter how well you put that assembly together. I buried RG-8 with a barrel connector/259 splice wrapped only with electrical tape...guess what, after about 2 weeks I noticed that my SWR was constant 2:1 throughout the 80 meter band...when I took that connector apart it was soaked with water. Are you sure you're not confusing PL-259's with N connectors?
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My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by AD5VM on September 29, 2007
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I have a Mosley three element tribander. It's sitting in my garage everything is assembled with the exception of the last piece of tubing for each element.
The feedpoint of this antenna requires no Balun, it's fed directly with coax.. The center conductor to one side of the driven element and the shield to the other side using simple solder lugs.
I took a six foot jumper of RG-213 and cut the PL-259 off one end, stripped it back about six inches and very carefully separated the braid from the center. I then lightly tinned the braid and soldered on the lugs to the tips... I put a male/male adapter on the other end and coiled it up into an 8" roll and taped it to the boom making a nice clean feedpoint.. My question is... How would you guys go about waterproofing the open end of the coax where the center and shield come out of the jacket??
Thanks!
-Larry
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N6AJR on September 29, 2007
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first I would wrap each leg with 33, then down the coax a ways too. a couple of layers could not hurt. then when I mounted it on the antenna I would make a "hump" in the coax so the 2 ends are pointing down, not up, this will help the water to drain out, not in. :)
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by NXET on September 29, 2007
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I perfer the duct seal .. better known as snott... you can get it in any HD or L store... its used to seal up the joints in the duct work for homes and businesses...
non contaminating... never hardens... and keeps water and moisture out.. if you keep about a 1/8 in coating over it.
cheap and quick to use.. and whats even better is the rats and mice don't like it... so you can use it to plug the holes in the wall too...
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by ICR71A on September 29, 2007
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Two notes on the Plasti-dip. It's great stuff but make sure that everything that it is applied to has been wiped well with isopropyl or ethyl alcohol, acetone, or similar cleaning agent.
As to it drying out once the can has been opened, the solution to that is simple--transfer the contents to a glass spaghetti sauce bottle that has a screw top! Also, if your dip begins to get a little too thick, it may be thinned back out with a little xylene.
73 DE N4PRT
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by K1CJS on September 29, 2007
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Well, since we're going all out here, recommending exotic sealers and products not really meant to waterproof co-ax connections, how about monkey shit? Ask any electrician--the stuff remains pliable and it peels off leaving minimal residue. Its stiff to work with but doesn't harden completely. Electricians used to (and some still do) use it to seal the weatherheads and feedpoints outside, so it is proven weatherproof.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N3EF on September 29, 2007
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"how about monkey shit?"
Already recommended by NXET. That's what duct seal is.
Eric N3EF
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N3JBH on September 29, 2007
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I was just going say same thing monkey poo = duct seal
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by WB2WIK on September 29, 2007
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>RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process Reply
by N3EF on September 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
WB2WIK I agree that a properly installed pl-259 is fairly weatherproof as it is, but it is NOT airtight.<
::If you read what I wrote, I never said it was airtight. There are several airtight seals, at the cable exit end, at the barrel where the four solder holes are, at the tip where the center conductor solders and at the mating fitting where the male meets the female. Those, if properly installed, are all airtight, I'd bet the bank on it.
The place that's not airtight, as I specifically mentioned, is the rear end of the shell where there is by design a .015" gap when the connectors are properly mated. Not airtight at all; however, it can be watertight considering the surface tension of water at one atmosphere requires >.015" gap for water to penetrate. It's simple chemistry. The only way that space is not watertight is if water is already inside the connector, thus equalizing surface tensions on both sides of the space.
Drill a .015" hole in a bottle and fill it with water, turn it upside down and see if any water leaks out. It won't, unless it's a plastic bottle and you squeeze it to increase pressure considerably above 1 ATM.
The problem I've seen with *most* "amateur" (and also most "commecial") PL-259 installations is they're not done properly. Even when they are done properly, there's a pretty good chance the cable itself is substandard and creates a problem because it's not the correct O.D. for the PL-259 design -- or it may be a substandard connector (as most non-Amphenol ones are) that will never seal properly due to tooling imperfections.
My "fishtank" test has gone on for considerably longer than a year...I've run it since 1989 and had to change the water several times due to algae formation to keep it clear, and every time those connectors are pulled above the water, wiped dry with a towel (on the outside) and then unscrewed, inside they're dry as a bone.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N3EF on September 29, 2007
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Well, with all those improperly installed connectors and the addition of variable cable and connector sizes, the addition of a good weatherproof seal is the prudent thing to do, IMHO. The simple addition of a layer of rubber tape and then vinyl tape takes less than a minute to apply, and works perfectly as my photo's clearly show.
Eric N3EF
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My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by W7DDD on September 29, 2007
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I've used all the products and techniques mentioned here. I do not believe acetic acid in, say GE silicone caulk, presents any problem. It evaporates off too quickly to create a problem. The problem with that stuff is it is difficult to apply and even more difficult to remove.
I am a big believer in Liquid Electric Tape sealer. I've used it on many exposed electrical connections on my small boat. After 20 years being covered with salt water spray, they're all as good as new. I do love that stuff, but wish it didn't congeal so quickly once you've opened the can.
I used to use Coax-Seal a lot, but what a mess to remove and break into a connection!
Currently, I'm using 3M 33, wrapping as described, and then overcoating it with the Liquid Electric Tape. The Liquid migrates into the inevitable tape wrinkles, unseen gaps and spaces, etc and completes the job.
I've also started using a thin spray-on product I bought at Home Depot, that is even thinner, and migrates into even the smallest little noocks and crannies.
My antennas and gear are less than 100 feet from the saltchuck (that's salt water for you landlubbers), and the constant wind can cover my living room windows with salt spray.
Using the 3M 33 tape and the Liquid Electric tape has kept my stuff safe for many years.
Bob
W7DDD
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My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KC0NYK on September 29, 2007
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My method is a bit simpler and works 100% for me. I simply take an appropriate lenght of shrink boot, slip it over the connector before I make the connection then heat up the shrink boot from the point of contact with the item I connected to outward with a hair dryer or propane torch.
Sealed litterally miles of coax, telephone, power and other cables this way and never lost one to leaking.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by K5FSE on September 29, 2007
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Referencing the problem of open cans of Plasti-Dip, paint and other items...wood working stores sell a aresol can of an inert, heavier than air gas. It's about $10/per can. A can will last a long time. You just give a quick squeeze, the gas fills your can, then seal the can.
It works
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N6AJR on September 29, 2007
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when I was working with the emergency services on the bridges her in northern CA, we used duct seal to plug holes in fuel tanks, ya get a car or truck or semi, with a hole in the tank and duct seal. befor that we used to carry small redwood sticks that form to the hole easily.
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My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by NL7W on September 30, 2007
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I use overlapping wraps of Scotch 70, a self-fusing rubber tape for electrical connections, then I coat the rubber tape with a well wrapped layer of Scotch 88.
It's simple, undeniably waterproof, and easy to remove by just slitting it open -- these layers just peel back. Moreover, these Scotch 70 and 88 tapes do well in cold wx.
73.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N6KYS on September 30, 2007
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"Infamous".....so are we to infer that your process is a bad one?
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My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by AB7E on September 30, 2007
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What's with the "infamous"? The technique you describe has been recommended several times before on the TowerTalk reflector.
Speaking of the TowerTalk reflector, there was a good thread recently describing the use of heat shrink tubing with a built in layer (inside) of adhesive ... essentially hot melt glue, I think. The adhesive melts as the tubing shrinks and makes an excellent watertight seal. You work from the center of the joint outward to avoid bubbles, of course. There was some diversity of opinion regarding how difficult it was to remove the seal, and some folks recommended a layer of vinyl tape over the connector before using the shrink tubing. The general opinion seemed to be to stick with the 3M versions of the stuff, which I had no difficulty finding in all sizes on eBay.
Several postings in this thread have called one idea or another overkill. Those folks should consider that there are lots of different possible environments for coax connections. What works fine on a tower away from the coastline may not work very well underground in damp soil. And yes, there are coax varieties rated for direct burial.
Dave AB7E
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by AB7E on September 30, 2007
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To: W2/G3LBS
Your perpetual rants on ladderline versus coax are really tedious, and trying to divert this unrelated thread to your particular obsession is really boorish. I love ladderline and have used it myself on many occasions, but there are lots of reasons why it may not be appropriate for all situations.
1. Ladderline is indeed an excellent low-loss feedline, but most rigs and most and most antennas are designed for low impedances. Good baluns or tuners are expensive and unnecessary if your antenna is already the same impedance as your rig, so you need to add that cost to the that of the ladderline for a true apples-to-apples comparison. And if you don't use a step-up balun at the antenna, the high SWR cranks up the line loss at 21 MHz (midpoint of a tribander) for either 450 ohm window line or 600 ohm open wire line to be almost identical per 100 feet to inexpensive LMR-400 coax. Check it out with TLW if you don't believe me.
2. Ladderline acts like a big kite in the wind if you have a very long run. Many folks don't have the option to run ladderline along posts or from tree to tree between the shack and the tower, so can you imagine the stresses (weight, wind drag, oscillations) on a few hundred feet of ladderline out in the open in strong wind gusts (not to mention during an ice storm)? Coax can be buried ... you can't do that with ladderline.
3. Ladderline is susceptible to detuning and increased losses from moisture and dirt build-up, particularly in certain locations. Some people find they need to periodically wash it, and you can find all sorts of comments about detuning during wet weather or icing.
People in general have different (sometimes incompatible) needs and the world is a hugely diverse environment. So why is it that folks like you can only think in narrow absolutes, and seem so compelled to push your unique perspective upon everyone else? It doesn't make good engineering sense to try to make one solution fit all problems, although I suspect it might give you some warped sense of reinforcement to pretend it does.
Dave AB7E
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KPAX2 on September 30, 2007
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Talk about beating the horse to death. Is it good and dead now?
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by AB7E on September 30, 2007
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KPAX2: "Talk about beating the horse to death. Is it good and dead now?"
You know, I've thought that a couple of times myself about some of these eHam threads. But then I realized that this isn't an email reflector where your mailbox fills up with junk you're bored with. You have to actually click on the link to these articles, then scroll down to see the latest postings. If you thought the horse was dead, why did you come back to look at the carcass again? And if you have an opinion one way or the other, why do you have to hide behind an alias to express it?
Dave AB7E
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My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KD8MQ on September 30, 2007
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I work in traffic signal maintenance. We use a similar procedure for waterproofing our exposed connections, both above, and below ground. The only difference is that we use a product called TBT-20 (Looks & works like Coax-Seal), instead of the mastic tape.
We've never had a failure using this method.
Just don't try to re-use the connector.
John, KD8MQ
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by WA4DOU on September 30, 2007
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Talk of "overkill" not withstanding, hundreds of thousands of feet of heliax cable come down from commercial and public safety installations due to weatherproofing failures for whatever reasons. Generally these use machined brass "weatherproofed" connectors (with "O" ring seals). Many amateurs lack the understanding and experience to do a creditable job of installing connectors and obviously some in the professional world as well. The consequences for most amateurs who fail to adaquately protect their installations from weather entry is maybe $.50-$.75 per foot. In the commercial world, commonly used cables can cost $2.50-$15.00 per foot, sometimes more. It costs very little, relatively speaking, in time and money to protect an installation from the consequences of water entry. No connector is weatherproof outside for the long term. Cables breath, barometric pressure changes, sunlight heats, cold air freezes. It is common in the southeast US for summertime humidity to reach 80-100%. I'd recommend learning to weatherproof your connectors adaquately to ensure long service life.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KPAX2 on October 1, 2007
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Well to answer all of your questions:
You're stupid and I'm smart. As long as you like forking out personal information, tell me your Social Secuity number then?
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KPAX2 on October 1, 2007
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why did you come back to look at the carcass again? And if you have an opinion one way or the other, why do you have to hide behind an alias to express it?
Dave AB7E::::
Well to answer all of your questions:
You're stupid and I'm smart. As long as you like forking out personal information, tell me your Social Secuity number then? SUCK on that one home builder boy.
Mike
http://www.n1eq.com/
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KG6WLS on October 1, 2007
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>>Talk about beating the horse to death. Is it good and dead now?<<
Nope. Not until that REPLY button goes away :0)
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by W4PA on October 1, 2007
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My three-step version (I didn't think of this, but I've used it a zillion times):
1. Wrap connection with Scotch 33 tape.
2. Coat that layer of tape thoroughly with liquid electrical tape and allow to dry.
3. Wrap second layer of Scotch 33 tape.
Do not use home improvement store brand or any other version of black electrical tape.
Weatherproof and waterproof. I have used this method since it was taught to me in the mid-1980's and have never had water in the coax, never had a connection fail due to weather, water or any other contamination with this method.
Simple and easy.
Scott W4PA
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My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by AF6AY on October 1, 2007
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As a historical precedent to this article, wrapping
"UHF" connectors was Standard Procedure in the US Army
Signal Corps beginning in World War II. Back then the
only tapes readily available were black rubber tape (as
the undercoating) and "friction" tape (as the over-
coating). It's rare to find those in hardware stores
now. :-) But, silicone type tapes for the under-
coating is better and should be even more long-
lasting.
In the 1950s we did that regularly in the Signal Corps
for VHF-UHF radio relay terminal antenna cables. The
method would protect them for years, including areas
where the coax was partially submerged in rain puddles
on an irregular flat rooftop.
It's a very good procedure and anyone who uses the old
"UHF" connector in outdoor coaxial cables ought to
protect theirs with such wrapping using modern tape
materials. If the coax jacket is intact, wrapping
will extend the protection to the conductors.
73, Len AF6AY
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by WB2WIK on October 1, 2007
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>RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process Reply
by N3EF on September 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Well, with all those improperly installed connectors and the addition of variable cable and connector sizes, the addition of a good weatherproof seal is the prudent thing to do, IMHO. The simple addition of a layer of rubber tape and then vinyl tape takes less than a minute to apply, and works perfectly as my photo's clearly show.<
::No doubt it does. For many years I meticulously applied overlapping layers of vinyl tape to my outdoor PL-259 connections and the tape did a great job of protecting them. However, I had some trouble with a few installations, where the trouble was actually *caused* by the tape (as discussed below) and that's when I stopped using the tape as an experiment, to see what would happen.
*Troubles caused by taping up outdoor PL connections:
1. The most obvious is they have to be untaped if you're changing something. That can be tedious when up on a tower, hanging from your harness, trying to do a lot of stuff at once (swatting flies or bees comes to mind as a common distraction). I find it's much easier to just reach for the connector and unscrew it, as opposed to unwrapping layers of tape which may have become congealed or hardened by the sun over time.
But that's not the real problem.
2. Here's one where the tape causes a cable failure that doesn't occur unless you're using tape (or coax-seal, or any sort of weatherproofing): You have a great sealed connection, but water from "above" somehow penetrates a cable (say, at a female receptacle located on a beam antenna matching network bracket) due to a cracked insulator or loosely swaged connector. Now, you have a well-sealed male connector screwed onto a leaky female one that even solid epoxy caulking would not have been able to seal.
So, water gets into the male connector despite the fact that it's completely weather sealed, because it enters the connector via the female. You have water or moisture inside the mating pair, including the perfectly weather-sealed male. Once it's there, it will be there forever because the male is so well sealed the water cannot evaporate out. Once so penetrated, it will be wet for the next century.
On the other hand if in this exact same situation everything was open and unsealed, what happens is the moisture penetrates the male connector. Then the sun comes out and the moisture trapped by the connector warms up and evaporates. After a short time, the connector completely dries out and is like new once again, reducing the risk of oxidized connections internally or wicking moisture into the cable via the center pin or body to dielectric swage gap.
Thus, the "open" connectors are naturally self-healing, while the perfectly sealed connectors are not.
After having a few failures due to precisely this problem, I started just leaving them unsealed and have never had a problem again -- in about 30 years.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by K1CJS on October 1, 2007
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I've just gone through my Hustler G7 vertical and thought this may be of interest in this discussion. From the last page of the install and tune instructions:
CAUTION:
Do not use coax seal or tape on type “N” connector. This antenna is designed to drain excess water around the outside of chassis mounted “N” connector. Sealing this area will cause the antenna to retain water.
Sealing connectors isn't always a good idea-as in this case.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N3EF on October 1, 2007
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Well, as clearly stated and shown on my web page, I don't "untape" the weather seal. I slit it lengthwise and peel it off. Takes all of 15 seconds. Done it many times while sitting in a bos'n chair at the top of a sailboat mast. Using vinyl tape alone is not sufficient. It doesn't seal good enough and will turn to a gooey mess. You must use the rubber tape first, which can be really stretched on to fill all the voids. And it must be tacky side out. Sure, there are other things that can happen and cause problems with the connection, but all I can say is that in the marine environment, if I don't weatherproof the connections, moisture WILL get in the coax, plain and simple. Seems to me that if moisture can find a way in through a crack, then it can evaporate back out.
Eric N3EF
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by AB7E on October 1, 2007
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KPAX2/N1EQ,
OK ... now I get why you hide behind the alias. My mistake.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by G3LBS on October 1, 2007
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I can't believe you coax guys have any time to operate at all - my twin feeder has no plugs or sockets.
What's the point of designing plugs and sockets if you can't unscrew them when you want to without peeling off goo?
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My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by AB4D on October 1, 2007
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I just use the vinyl waterproof boots sold by cushcraft with the supplied silicone grease, and I have never lost a run of coax due to water infiltration at the connector. Also, the boots are lot easier to slide off/on while you are up in the air dangling from a tower than to deal with removing and then reinstalling 3 layers of tape.
73
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by 2E0MCA on October 2, 2007
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Here's a no tape option for use with G5RV types where the ladder line is connected to the feedline with a PL259. Probably not suitable for anything else.
Take a small rectangular polythene container, not the xyl's tupperware or you'll get it in the neck. Drill a hole in each end. Mount the container on your fence or similar support. Feed the cables in and connect up. Push the PL259 back in the box and close the lid. Seal around the lid and the cables where they enter the container using bathroom mastic. Job done.
You can check the box for water ingress as it's clear. If you need to disconnect you just break the seal, open the lid and undo the PL259. Remember to re-seal after reconnecting.
I used the container that the coach bolts for a set of wall brackets came in. It's been nearly three years now and no water has appeared inside. An inspection this summer showed no corrosion to the plug or socket. Anyway - there's an alternative to tape.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by 2E0MCA on October 2, 2007
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Should have added, mount the container horizontally so the holes are at the sides.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by G3LBS on October 2, 2007
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Well that's better fellow Brit, but why use coax with your G5RV?
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by 2E0MCA on October 2, 2007
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It came that way from the makers - I may get around to making my own ladderline version in future but the coax is convenient for the time being, especially with a 5 year old digging up the garden. I appreciate that the pure Varney version would work better.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by G3LBS on October 2, 2007
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Go for 6 inch spacing it is more tolerant of variations
Gil W2/G3LBS
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by WB2WIK on October 3, 2007
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>My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process Reply
by AB4D on October 1, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I just use the vinyl waterproof boots sold by cushcraft with the supplied silicone grease, and I have never lost a run of coax due to water infiltration at the connector. Also, the boots are lot easier to slide off/on while you are up in the air dangling from a tower than to deal with removing and then reinstalling 3 layers of tape.<
::I agree with you, those things do work great. The problem is, you better have a few rags in your climbing harness pouch because when you slip one of these off, all the grease is still inside and makes a mess. Get it on your hands and you'll never be able to grab anything else because it's so slippery -- must be wiped off very, very well before you can even grab a wrench!
WB2WIK/6
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N0DMC on October 3, 2007
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KB9CRY:
Not quite true. Electricians also use varnished cambric tape and a rubberized tape depending on the type of connection and voltage going thru the connection. 33, OR A SIMILAR tape sold by electrical supply houses is usually the LAST tape used no matter what the connection. Generally it's three half-wraps, each successively going further past the last wrap on both ends of the connection.
Retired Journeyman Inside Wireman
Bill Cook
N0DMC
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by N8IS on October 5, 2007
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if you have liqued tape try storing the can upside down when the lid is on snug. works with paint to.
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My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by KC2WI on October 6, 2007
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I've never waterproofed any of my PL-259 connetions and have never had a problem.
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My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by AF6G on October 7, 2007
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1) Clean connector throughly as previously stated.
2) A layer of Scotch 33 or 700 Commercial Grade tape, strarting on the feedline about 1 inch from the connector and continuing over and past the connector 1 inch, or as far as possible. Make sure to keep slight tension (pull) on the tape as you apply it, do not just "lay" it down and smooth it with your fingers.
3) A layer of Scotchkote Electrical Coating. (Allow to dry)
4) Another layer of Scotch 33 or 700 Commercial Grade tape, starting 1 inch, or as far as possible, before the connector and continuing over and past the connector 1 inch onto the feedline. (Reverse direction of #2 above, tension tape as previously stated)
5) Another layer of Scotchkote Electrical Coating. (Allow to dry)
6) Cable tie the outer, cut end of the last layer of tape to ensure the tape does not unravel over time - use a UV rated cable tie.
Overkill? Yes, maybe for a dipole slung between 2 trees or any antenna you have easy access to and/or a temporary installation. But for the top of a tower and/or a job you are doing as a professional - standard procedure.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by K8AI on October 10, 2007
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Are you saying we should use open-wire line for UHF/VHF?
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by K8AI on October 10, 2007
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In the 1990's US Navy, the approved method was:
1.) wrap with 3M type 33
2.) wrap with self-vulcanizing silicone tape (I don't
who was the mfg)
3.) coat with Permatex gasket sealer (whichever was
the "hardening" type, I can't remember. The can
had a built-in brush on the cover)
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My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by WK0F on October 10, 2007
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Curious as how some of you seal an open end of coax from the elements? I am running some RG213 to a ground mounted HF2V vertical and might apply some waterproofing techniques here. The vertical has two posts where you bolt the coax on. I'm especially interested in how to waterproof the braid so it doesn't wick any moisture.
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RE: My Infamous Three-Step Water Proofing Process
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by K1CJS on October 17, 2007
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Black UV resistant silicone sealer is the best bet. Work it onto and around the end of the co-ax and be a little sloppy, that is, don't worry about using too much. Don't forget to use the stuff on the exposed wire and connections too. To get it off the terminals of the antenna if needed, a small wire brush or wire wheel does the job.
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