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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundamentals

from Ernie Gregoire, AA1IK on October 28, 2007
View comments about this article!

The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundamentals
By Ernie Gregoire, AA1IK

“I’m a no code extra, my friend Bill would joke about himself.”

Bill is an extra class ham who passed the 5 word per minute code test and promptly forgot everything he ever learned about Morse code.

We would go to one of the many county parks in St. Petersburg Florida to operate QRP. He would get so excited that he would shout into his microphone, which caused me to don my earphones. I love that kind of enthusiasm.

Bill is part of a new crop of hams who was lured into ham radio at the start of the “No Code Era.”

As time went by some of these hams would listen to the chatter of CW operators at ham fests and club meetings. The CW ops would tell stories of the fun that they were having working DX, and rag chewing, and contesting. Slowly, the “No Coders” (NC) were intrigued by the CW ops and began to look at the CW spectrum as a no mans land for them but a theme park for the CW ops.

Many of the NC’s eventually realized that CW was fun and worth the effort to learn well. The work necessary to be able to use CW on the air is more intensive than what it takes to pass a 5 word per minute code test, but it is worth it.

Once the previous NC’s made their first contact they also became CW enthusiasts.

I dabble in PSK, but ninety nine percent of my on air activity is CW.

I hear lots of CW on the bands some good some very bad.

Not all of the bad CW comes from NC’s who have recently come to the CW sub-bands.

This brings me to the point of this article, fundamental for all.

Well sent CW is like well played music, a pleasure to listen to.

Here are a few fundamentals to remember. They will make life easier on the receiving end and you will enjoy having a reputation as a good operator also.

Send clean code, form you characters well, no matter how slowly you send. Well formed characters are easy to copy.

I hear speed demons who must think that they are great ops because they can send a few characters at 30 wpm. They have to send a stream of dits to let the receiving op know they messed up.

It is very hard to copy broken code, and eventually becomes unpleasant to listen to. Nothing shortens a QSO like sending gibberish...

Here is another tip:
When answering another ham, DO NOT SEND HIS CALL SIGN BACK TO HIM TWO OR THREE TIMES.

He already knows his own call sign, he wants to hear YOUR CALL SIGN.

By the time you finish sending his call sign to him, the fading will obliterate your call sign.

This can be a show stopper.

If he does not get your call sign due to you repeatedly sending your own call sign, you have lost the contact and he will move on to someone else.

Remember that we are at the bottom of the solar cycle, fading is a real problem. Work with it, use a rhythm to send on the peaks of signal strength, and keep it short. If you and the receiving op both do this, you can enjoy a QSO that could not have taken place any other way.

Use the recommended three by three method of calling:
CQ CQ CQ DE W1AW, W1AW, W1AW, K
Then stop sending and listen.

Do not call CQ for three minutes without sending your call sign. Old timer are the worse offenders for this. Old timers can be lids too.

I will not answer ANYONE, who does this.

Sending CQ ad infinitum, marks you as a lid.

Be patient!

The receiving station may be putting your call sign into his log. Give him a 30 seconds to get that done. If he stopped calling, some one has his attention, it could be you that he is logging.

Be polite. Hams who are “reading your mail” will take note and want to talk to you.

Do not respond to profanity. Simply find another frequency to operate. Everyone looses when hams engage in on the air squabbles.

Take no offense.

If someone “Steals a frequency that you have been using,” differ to them. Chances are the band shifted and he was operating on that frequency but simply could not hear you. Interference is a way of life on the bands. Most of the time it is unintentional!

Choose to be “Not Offended.” It is a choice. There will be less stomach acid generated on both sides of the action if you do so.

“Contesting is not a matter of life and death. It’s much more important than that!”

This is a quote could easily be applied to DX’ers as well.

This kind of attitude hurts us all.

No one likes to be pushed around but it takes a special kind of ham to choose the high road rather than retaliation.

These things are important but I’d like to end on a more positive note.

CW is fun. If you have been envying the CW hams working lots of DX, and want to get in on it, please do so.

CW is a language.

If you practiced speaking French for only 15 minutes a week, you would not learn much French. Learning CW is the same thing. Practice until you have something that you can use on the air.

Get on the air and make some music, CW music!

De AA1IK/P Ernie Gregoire

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
CW Music  
by HA6SST on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
The phrase 'CW music' is very close to the truth, good CW has a rhythm and is easy to listen to. One of the best CW operators I ever heard was a maritime radio officer who was also the drummer in the ships band. I could listen to his code for hours.

HA6SST
 
RE: CW Music  
by VK2GWK on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
A lot of common sense comments! Very good. I know my own call - give me your call several times - especially when you are weak and after I called you with part of your call.

When using a "bug" make sure you set it right.... I hear many stations that give a dot too many: 4K2 instead of VK2 and a 6 when they want to send a B. I am not talking just the odd operator but this endemic.....

Some operators change the dot/dash interval (weighting). Maybe they think they sound "interesting" or "professional".... No you sound bad and are much less easy to copy under poor conditions than people with the proper spacing...

I enjoy working stations with weak signals that are keen to work a VK and take my time to get them out of the "mud". And there is always that guy (or gal) that gives me his(hers) call (ABxCD) when I am calling W9x?? - Dont you listen....???? Or are you that desperate....???

 
RE: CW Music  
by VE2DSB on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
HA6SST, I'm drummer too and CW is like a real good beat for me, weak signal on Vhf/Uhf and other band is my first priority before any phone qso.

Dah dit Dah!
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by N2RRA on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Very Well said!

As I use CW more and more I find improvement in my sending, and recieving, and in turn enjoy it that much more. Not to mention the great assit it becomes during this solor cycle rut that we're in.

Common sense you can't teach, but skills can be taught. I find many operators responding to a CQ call with 20 wpm when the sender is at 10 wpm. Maybe they forget that there's a reason for that, but that's just common sense. Lets not forget those sending slower than we are haven't progressed yet. Lets help them improve with more on air time, and not discourage them , because they can't keep up. Drop Your Speed!

Ah! Sending clear and clean!

I find those using straight keys really need to improve in this area. Sending with a straight key I feel is really an art. It's quite difficult to send clean, and clear with a straight key at first, but not impossible. When this is achieved it really becomes more like music, and an accomplishment to feel good about. You'll get kudo's as well from other operators towards your sending.

OK! That's about it, and I'm off to the air waves.

--... ...--,

Eric
N2RRA
-.-. .-- / .. ... / ..-. --- .-. . ...- . .-.
 
RE: CW Music  
by SSB on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Amateurs like to make meaningless proclamations about stuff. For example, cw is a language. No it isn't. CW 'code' is code for letters of the alphabet which can be put together into many different languages, like English, French, or whatever.

CW = a code for letters of the alphabet, that's all.


Alex....

 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by N4OI on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Great points! However, some of my best CW QSOs are with the old-timers in their 80s, who have been hams for 60+ years, who have developed (due to experience or age) unusual keying "styles" with their old bugs and straights keys. It takes some patience to follow the conversations, but certainly worth it! Just this week I had a good chat with one of these gentlemen who was using a vintage homebrew transmitter with a vintage National HRO-Senior receiver from the 30s. Still going strong -- just had to follow the signal around the band a little... He had a very distinct (although hard to copy) straight key style -- not much on spacing and kind of lengthening the dihs and dahs at the end of each TX. But I would much rather deal with that than to miss out on a QSO with any of these ham radio pioneers! It all kind of goes with the package. So I encourage all of you to keep on the air regardless of your style or the physical challenges you may be facing as you get older -- I'll be looking for you. 73 de Ken -- N4OI.
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.

I am not a braggart, but why not listen to music given by W6TH, an old timer of going into 70 years as a commercial cw and Amateur Radio operator and yes, 85 years of age.

Your post my dear Ernie Gregoire, AA1IK has faulty witness to your opinion of a cw operator, you have a lot to learn my friend, that is when it comes to informing others as to a good or bad operator.

Look for me on these cw bands and work me on cw, but please don't go over 72 wpm as that is my limit.

One question I ask of you, that is; how can an old timer that passed 13 and the 20 wpm at a FCC office be on the bad side of a recommended cw operator? You are confused and lack the knowledge of an old timer my friend.

W6TH/BPL/SOWP.

.:
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.

So I encourage all of you to keep on the air regardless of your style or the physical challenges you may be facing as you get older -- I'll be looking for you. 73 de Ken -- N4OI.


This says it all. No need for a worthless post.
W6TH

.:
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by K1CJS on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"I am not a braggart, but why not listen to music given by W6TH, an old timer of going into 70 years as a commercial cw and Amateur Radio operator and yes, 85 years of age."

--That isn't bragging? Coulda fooled me.

"Your post my dear Ernie Gregoire, AA1IK has faulty witness to your opinion of a cw operator, you have a lot to learn my friend, that is when it comes to informing others as to a good or bad operator."

--Your answer has the same--and you also have a lot to RE-learn, your damaged superiority complex is showing. Just because you may send better code doesn't mean you're a better ham operator, far from it.

"Look for me on these cw bands and work me on cw, but please don't go over 72 wpm as that is my limit."

--More bragging. How long are your arms? Must be long for all the 'patting yourself on the back' you're doing. Good ham operators don't call attention to themselves the way you're doing.

"One question I ask of you, that is; how can an old timer that passed 13 and the 20 wpm at a FCC office be on the bad side of a recommended cw operator?"

--By getting a swelled head and an overinflated ego, and then by advertizing the fact on the internet. By taking a perfectly good, informative article and trying to put your 'Vito is better than anybody' spiel under it. I used to feel sorry for you--now I feel sorrier for the people here that have to read though your tripe.

 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by N6HPX on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
For some the CW is a lanugage and is at times a good way to pass info to someone who can't speak a foreign language. I think its a worth while mode to learn.
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by N0AH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
From what I know, I am surprised by how many no-code Exra's have gotten interested in code. Once informed and/or exposed to it as this article points out, those of us with 20WPM license background who work CW DX are not surprised.

I think this a good example of the chicken/egg story. The chickens finally figured out how to get the egg. They got off their band wagon of how evil it was of us wanting to keep code in the license process and now stories like this point out why.

My total respect to those of you new to the hobby who have decided to take on the art of CW versus treating it as days gone by. You'll find your DXCC and WAZ counts soaring above those with just a D-104 as the new cycle rolls in.

I was not a big fan of the new license procedures. But it does seem to be having some very positive results-

And for those of you chastizing a new op's key, relax. Keep the rule we have always used. Only operate at the speed of that op- and have fun om

73 de N0AH
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
K1CJS Chris,

You talk like a chicken with a paper ass hole.

.:
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
Ernie Gregoire, AA1IK,

I want you to remember this and always keep it in mind.

The old time hams copied cw by words and the sound of words, today the hams are taught wrong and are taught to copy by characters.

Back years ago the Navy would send on the air code practice for us hams to copy by on the air operation and not by machines as today. We were taught, self taught and on the air teaching was the best way with qrm, qrn and other sources of interference. The ARRL does that today for all, so why not go back in years and learn the right way?

You Ernie Gregoire, AA1IK, may think a operator is poor, but remember that much of the phillips code was used in my and present days and confuses the new comers, probably you as well.

You being in Florida is great as I have a pipe line into Florida, possibly we can sked and have a few go arounds. I will send the same speed as needed for you, whether 5 wpm or 50 to satisfy your needs.

What say?

73, W6TH

.:
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by W4VR on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Sounds like you took this right out of Riley's notebook...he will be very proud of you if he reads your article. Let me give you one example of why sometimes it's not a good idea to give only your call sign when calling someone: I finish off with a contact...someone else calls in with only his call sign...I'm never sure if he's calling me or the fellow I just signed off with..there is dead silence...then he finally gives my call sign...so I answer him. So, there are exceptions to not giving the other guy's call. True, if I call CQ and someone answers with only his call...no problem there because I know he's calling me.
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by KG6WLS on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Here we go again!
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by N6NKN on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Just signing in to see what Vito has to say. It's always good for a laugh. :-)
 
RE: CW Music  
by WR8D on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Cw "is" a universal language.

Qst used to infact spew this point at us.

Soon as vibroplex or one of the other makers of fine paddles etc gives them a big endorsement, they'll start advertising about it again.

Now if any want to have intelligent debate here post with your callsign. We're hams, not cbers and any post with a cb handle will be ignored by us all.

--... ...-- John WR8D
 
RE: CW Music  
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
W4VR
RON

How about passing the 2 meter repeater of your location so i may try to monitor it, please and thanks.

W6TH

.:
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
N6NKN on October 28, 2007
Just signing in to see what Vito has to say. It's always good for a laugh. :-)


Prove yourself worthy of being a ham operator and lets make a cw sked.

What say?
.:
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by N6NKN on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Vito,

Please explain why working you would make us "worthy".
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W4VR on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
W6TH, Vito

Here is the info on the repearters up in this part of Northern Maine:

Frequency Offset PL Callsign Location
146.64 MHz -600 100 N1FG Fort Kent, Maine
146.715 MHz -600 91.5 N1FG Rocky Mountain, Maine (T18-R12)


Ron
 
RE: CW Music  
by K1CJS on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Now if any want to have intelligent debate here post with your callsign. We're hams, not cbers and any post with a cb handle will be ignored by us all."

Well said, John. Now if other identified hams would do just that, the cbers may soon leave. Hey--at least we can hope.
___________________

Vito, with the stuff you post, you wonder why people talk to you the way they do? I wonder, do you even remember what it was like--that is how the older hams reacted to you--when you were first licensed. I can't actually speak for them, but if your attitude was anything like it is today, its no wonder you have an inferiority complex.
 
RE: CW Music  
by N5XM on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I came in as a No-Code, just to get my foot in the door, so to speak, but was very lucky to have an old time Elmer. He suggested I get into the hobby via the codeless liscense, but as soon as I did so, he continually encouraged me to learn CW. I'm so glad he did.

I don't care about all the fussing and fighting. People have differences of opinion and sometimes clash. No big deal. One of the realities of life is that you can't legislate excellence. How many of us really have the desire to be the best Hams we can be?

I too, love working folks on CW who are in their 80's and above. Some have great fists, and that really puts a smile on my face. I like to ask them about their favorite rigs over the years. Getting into ragchews with these folks is pure pleasure. All else I would say is that there are CW ops out there who are trying their best to do their best, and I would raise a toast to those so dedicated. Thanks everyone for offering your opinions.
 
RE: CW Music  
by N4NSS on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
You missed the point of the article but anyway, learning CW is like learning a language. It also is a language of it's own right because only an elite groupe of people know it. Since "CW" code has a sound as well as a visual element, it could be viewed as a language.
In your case you are just messing with semantics.
 
RE: CW Music  
by W7AIT on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
At risk of boring the old timers, here's some useful information on CW.

Also a short example of a CW qso.....Format of the QSO and number of CQ's may vary per taste and preference but long cqing is frowned upon.....here's some information:

CW is one of the oldest modes used in ham radio. It also has very high signal to noise ratio. It is also infinitely narrow in spectrum width (only the actual width of the receiving stations IF settings). The amount of power density is very high vs. say FM or SSB voice where the power and voice audio is spread out over 10 khz (FM) and 2.4 Khz (SSB). Therefore CW is an excellent mode for weak signal (QRP) & DX; there’s a lot of power behind a CW signal. Before the example, some terms (note adding a ? makes it a question, without it’s a statement):

QRL busy QRL? Busy?
K invitation to transmit any station
KN invitation to transmit only that station everyone else butt out
CQ general call
DE from
R I received everything perfectly no mistakes
OM old man
OP operator
WX weather
HR here
QSO conservation
GM good morning
UR your
RST readability strength tone
BT double dash pause
73 good bye and best regards
QTH location
BK back or break meaning dependant on where used
TU to you or thank you meaning dependant on where used
, comma send morse characters for comma
. period send morse characters for period
ES and
FER for e in place of o for brevity
TNX thanks
FB fine business
CUL see you later
SK signing off silent key

A typical CW QSO between W7AIT and WD6CNF goes like this (note- no case in CW so I will show everything in UPPERCASE), takes about 4 minutes at 13 words per minute:

QRL? QRL?

CQ CQ CQ DE W7AIT CQ CQ CQ DE W7AIT K
(pause to listen for a reply)
CQ CQ CQ DE W7AIT CQ CQ CQ DE W7AIT K

W7AIT DE WD6CNF WD6CNF K

WD6CNF DE W7AIT GM OM. UR RST 579 579 BT MY QTH IS MODESTO MODESTO, CA, CA. MY NAME IS CHIP CHIP BT SO BKTU WD6CNF DE W7AIT KN

R R R DE WD6CNF FB CHIP BT UR RST 5NN 599 IN ROSEVILLE ROSEVILLE, CA CA BT OP HR IS GRANT GRANT BT WX COLD 42F RAIN BT SO BKTU CHIP W7AIT DE WD6CNF KN

R R WD6CNF DE W7AIT R FB GRANT BT RIG IS 30 WATTS ES DIPOLE AT 25 FEET BT TNX FER FB QSO 73 ES CUL WD6CNF DE W7AIT KN

R R DE WD6CNF R CHIP TNX FER FB QSO BT 73 ES BEST OF LUCK BT CUL 73 W7AIT DE WD6CNF SK SK

DIT DIT

DIT DIT

Note: Often “Shave and a Haircut” sequence substituted for first DIT DIT
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.

Thanks Ron, will set my IC V8000 with a J pole at 17 feet. I will see if I need more power than 65 watts and if needing more I will get my better antenna working.

73, Vito
 
RE: CW Music  
by K8QV on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Hey, AA1IK,

Thanks for being brave enough to post an encouraging, thoughtful article in this den of vipers. Keep up the good work, Ernie. Ignore the senile and sociopathic lurkers on this forum. Normal hams benefit from elmering.

- Chris
 
RE: CW Music  
by N5EAT on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
..The below sounds like the ravings of a jealous loser to me....

"Amateurs like to make meaningless proclamations about stuff. For example, cw is a language. No it isn't. CW 'code' is code for letters of the alphabet which can be put together into many different languages, like English, French, or whatever.

CW = a code for letters of the alphabet, that's all."


Alex....
 
RE: CW Music  
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.

Now to my friends, K1CJS and N6NKN, flattery will get you nowhere.


Please explain why working you would make us "worthy"

You should know the answer to that N6NKN. BTW, have you ever touched a straight key, or even seen one?

Also, in all of my 69 + years of ham radio, I have never seen, met or worked a bad operator of cw, all have been great, but I have heard some pretty sad phone operators, like both of you chaps.

W6TH, A Non Vanity Call.

Adios Amigos

.:

 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by N2RRA on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
LOL! Yep! Here we go again.

Come on guys! Don't think anyone was trying to insult old timers, or anyone else.

If there's anyone with any mobile difficulties then fine it's understandable, but for those with out any problems should learn how to send properly, and how too follow traditional practice while they still can.
Age is a mother.. and we all get there some time. I'm sure we all know this.
That's all!

73,
Eric
 
RE: CW Music  
by N6NKN on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Vito,

I'm sure in your eyes nothing we do can make us "worthy". After all, we weren't licensed before 1940.

I wasn't even a gleam in anyone's eye in 1940.

-73- OM
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by KB2DHG on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Very nice article.
I just recently got back into CW and love it more that ever. and it is so true the more you do it the better you get.
I would never have thought I would be doing as good as I am and enjoying this mode more then ever!
CW IS GREAT it just takes a little work but the rewards are woth it!
 
RE: CW Music  
by K1CJS on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
W6TH said:

"Also, in all of my 69 + years of ham radio, I have never seen, met or worked a bad operator of cw, all have been great, but I have heard some pretty sad phone operators, like both of you chaps."

I've had the extreme pleasure of never having worked you on phone, Vito, so I can't say you're a bad operator. How can you say that--never having worked me?

Now, if you were to have said contact on the internet, quite a few would say you were a bad contact. There would also be a few that said otherwise--but you can't account for taste.
 
RE: CW Music  
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
K1CJS, Class: General

I see you jumped from technician to General with no testing and was given to you gratis, congratulations Chris, this is what you have been waiting so long for.

Before moving to NH, I passed by 298 Whipple Street Fall River, MA and spent one week there visiting my son who also is a ham operator, lives in New Bedford, MA. I ask him to copy you and when you were on yaking your mouth as you do here on eHAM to call me and let me hear what you sound like. You sounded just like you write here on eHAM. I heard you over his cellphone as well.

He said you were a punk.

.:
 
RE: CW Music  
by N3JBH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Vito for President in 2008 !!!
 
RE: CW Music  
by RADIO123US on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
W6TH said "He said you were a punk. "

You are 100 percent right on this one. K1CJS, can't stand it when anyone to talks positively about CW. The reason why is he NEVER was able to master it himself. He's an anti-code bigot that seems to get his thrill posting his garbage in every pro-CW thread.

Chris, give it up...folks here know who you are, and what you stand for....why don't you go back to your CB friends...10-4 good buddy...
 
RE: CW Music  
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.

You don't want me as president as I am a firm believer of The Constitution of These United States and its Bill of Rights.

Live Free of Die, Death isn't the worst of evil.

Try Ron Paul, he is the one you should vote for. America needs him


.:
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by N0AH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
W6TH:

I have really tried to ignore you but it is becoming difficult. You picked on my chicken/egg scenerio so here it is, back at you:

I first got my ticket in 1996 and worked up to Extra in 1997. One year almost to the day.

Encouraged by my Elmers in the MileHigh DX Association, I was geared towards CW for DXCC count. (I hated it but.....)

I was not great at it. I used a multi-band vertical, a Cushcraft AP8A and 100 watts near sunrise on 40M to work Asia during the winter months. I got a few rare ones that I didn't even knew existed on the DXCC list. Yes, I was green.

But in first year, I had come close to earning my DXCC on 40 meters with stations from around the world using the same techniques. I started hearing words as you have mentioned. But mostly Q-codes and the typical 73, te de, etc....... But still, I could not rag chew for beans.

My second year as an Extra, I still was running 100 watts into the AP8A. This time I concentrated on 80M and had few big guns here and around the area having stations in EU and JA, VK, YB .... listen for me. This was very cool to piggy back and I got very close to 80M DXCC that year. Still, I could not hold a decent CW rag chew. (bonk)

Going into my 3rd and 4th years, I got an amplifier, a tribander and still worked the low bands with the AP8A. I took it with me to VK9LZ work 90% CW to hundreds of JA's on 40M and over 500 NA on 30M. Yet, not one rag chew. Just heard my call a couple of times or visa a versa in pileups with reports etc.........and clipped along at 30-40 wpm. (Gainng some contesting experience during this time had helped with this process.)

As I've grown in the hobby, my DXCC count with the ARRL is almost equal between CW and phone. I like the balance. But I have not turned in any cards since 2004.

On my 200 band WAZ that I earned after being an amateur radio operator for 6 years, it is about 2/3rds CW. Go figure and I still can't conduct a rag chew on CW. I guess I am a dork-

Being published 73 Magazine, CQ Contest Magazine and on the front cover of the National Contest Journal, I still can't hold a CW ragchew. I guess I must be part of a chicken's anatomy.........

All I can say is to repeat myself. Go at the same rate of the op you are working, have fun, and oh yeah, the Vito's of this world really have nada to contribute except to remind all of us that every apple has it's worm. CW lives....just use it as it fits you the best.

Warmest Regards except to MFJ and Vito,

Paul N0AH
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by K7NNG on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!

Well now, six dits in a row after making a mistake is acceptable practice.
W6TH seems to get under the skin of a few, but as an ole CW(NAVY SPEED KEY LICENSE 0013)operator, I give him my respect if his speed limit is about 72 wpm.
I can copy 44 in my head and a little more with a mill, and thats my limit...I usually hang out at 22-28 wpm sending....My ole hands just won't get it done nowadays.
Anyone that gets on the air with CW has my greatest of respect as an operator, at 5wpm or 50wpm. I go their speed and enjoy it all.
CW TODAY, TOMORROW AND FOREVER

 
RE: CW Music  
by WD9FUM on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
It's nice to see 'QRL?' at the beginning!
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
N0AH Paul.

I first got my ticket in 1996 and worked up to Extra in 1997.

It was dumbed down in those years, nothing to boast about Paul, it also came easy for you. Fifty eight years after I received mine in 1938.

Aren't you now proud of yourself when a 7 year old could pass what you passed. HA HA HAH.

.:
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W7ETA on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks for the article.

CW as a language was a metaphor, simile, analogy.

It seems as if you missed the point, using CW improves proficiency, not using it decreases gained proficiency.

Best Wishes
Bob

 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
NY7Q
I give him my respect if his speed limit is about 72 wpm.

....................if you say?...................


Why don't we make a sked and let you try me out.

.:
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by K7NNG on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
w6th
my comments about you were positive, meant to please and respect you. (I do not doubt your ability.) not get into a pssssing war.As an ole navy chief, I usually win those wars. I hang out 14.014 and there abouts.
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.

Cw is not a language, it is a art, an art especially for those that are gifted, gifted with a brain cell that can quickly identify sounds of different length. The brain cells are then taught to memorize sounds at greater speeds, I believe the brain cells work as algebraic and geometrical functions.

As you will notice how our body functions, then you will see body and life follows the scientific rules of survival. Figure this one out.

For cw, just train your brain for what you so desire and it will retain.

.:
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
NY7Q

I hang out 14.014 and there abouts.

I'll be there.

.:
 
RE: CW Music  
by N3EF on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"by SSB on October 28, 2007
Amateurs like to make meaningless proclamations about stuff. For example, cw is a language. No it isn't.

Alex...."

It IS a language. There's more than one definition of "language". Check your dictionary. I think this one fits us well:

"5. any system of formalized symbols, signs, sounds, gestures, or the like used or conceived as a means of communicating thought, emotion, etc.: the language of mathematics; sign language."

Eric N3EF
 
RE: CW Music  
by K1CJS on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Sorry Vito, it won't wash. You don't have a relative in this area at all--let alone a son, and I never spoke to anyone who is associated with you, nor would I want to.

As far as the other noise on this thread, I have spoken of morse in a positive light--it has its uses and its pleasures for some people. I never said anything against morse itself, only the testing, which I still believe was an antiquated holdover--but that argument is done and over with.

It is true that there are a few troublemakers on this site, those who wish to remain hidden and those who are in plain sight. I've said before that whoever comes after me will get it back manyfold. I've also said I'll apologise to anyone who I've wronged--if I'm wrong. So far, neither the noises or Vito qualify.

Thanks for your attention to this public service message.
 
RE: CW Music  
by K1CJS on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Oh, I meant to say your coming after me doesn't have to be in this particular thread. You see, I've got those people on my list--and if they make too much noise I will too.
 
RE: CW Music  
by WA2JJH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I LIKE CW.....PROBLEM WIT DAT!
 
RE: CW Music  
by NI0C on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Ernie,

What a nice surprise to see your fine article posted less than 24 hours after our first CW QSO yesterday on 30m CW!

W6TH, you are way out of line with your mean-spirited and boastful comments.

73 de Chuck NI0C


 
RE: CW Music  
by N6NKN on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Wait a minute Chuck. I don't think your comments matter much to Vito. After all you were not a ham before 1940. :-)
 
RE: CW Music  
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.

NI0C Chuck,

Do you still ride around in your vehicle with that mattress upon your roof?

.:
 
RE: CW Music  
by N6HPX on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
For some CW is a Language and others its one that took time learning..just like Mandarin or English, never the less its a fun language and worth trying
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by NL7W on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Great Post, Ernie.

 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by WA1RNE on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!

Foilks, it's only Chuck Wagon, just another mode.


In 1972, Chuck Wagon was used frequently, but without all the Constant Worry.


Old Chuck Wagon can be fun, but it's not for everyone - Choose Wisely.


Chuck Wagon will always hold a special place in the heart of old timers, especially the ones who use to drive around in those Chuck Wagons.


One should not measure their stature as an amateur solely by their ability to operate Chuck Wagon. Those kind of Cocky Wisecracks are extremely negative and are Completely Wrong.


Have fun with amateur radio and remain civil with one another.

It's interesting how the Internet doesn't always make a person feel Completely Welcome, but there's rarely an argument when hams communicate using good ole' Chuck Wagon.......


....WA1RNE
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by KI4IDS on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks W7AIT...I am struggling to learn cw at close to 5wpm...Your post displaying a cw qso was the first I ever read...it meant a lot to me to read the flow...I hope to make a first cw contact soon..73 Jay
 
CW at the end of the day...  
by N4QA on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Been a ham for 42 years...a short time compared to some, a long time to others.

Just this minute, I tried something in CW that I've never done before!

I prayed to God in CW!
Nearly put me to sleep.
Perhaps He will forgive me.
Going to try it again when I retire for tonight.

"Now I lay me down to sleep..."

Looking forward to working all you guys on CW on your favorite CW freq between ~ 1.8 MHz and 50.1 MHz.
Your speed will be just fine...not over 40 wpm though, please.

72,
Bill, N4QA
 
RE: CW at the end of the day...  
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.

For Chris K1CJS and the others:

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson.


.:
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by N0AH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
N0AH writes " Oh please Vito, leave me alone, then decides to follow up with:"


W6TH,

I know I am going to somehow insult everyone on this list but please understand that these comments are meant only for VITO (-:


You know, since you like to use statistics, at your age, I think that you are behind the eight ball on seeing who the next President will be- HA HAA HA Geeser!!!

I mean really, bragging about how long you have been a ham is about to do you in including the stress that goes with wheezing.

But then again, you might make it through another cycle with Viagra and still be clipping along at 140 WPM with your MFJ Ginger Bug after switching of course to Nuckie Water-

And no, in 1996 20WPM was not dumbing down anything.

Buying a MFJ 1026 noise cancellation device was- Just ask the guy who designed it- I think his call in scambled letters is i8jw. Maybe your Alzheimers can work this out- You guys know each other?

Otiv, you really need to get a life. Stratego is on sale at Walmart. Red and blue.....simple. Hang up the keyer. You've all but washed out-

Just kidding. Ah heck, you are on my list of heroes Like others and I really wrote this out of respect for you- Fu Paw!!
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by WN2A on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
The good news is there are a (few) NC CW op's out there, and I have even QSO'd several. They just need the encouragement that we received years ago as 5 WPM Novices and Techs.
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by K6YE on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Ernie,

Great article. It has excellent points for both old timers as well as newbies. Keep up the good work.

Semper Fi,

Tommy - K6YE
DX IS
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by K6YE on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Ernie,

Great article. It has excellent points for both old timers as well as newbies. Keep up the good work.

Semper Fi,

Tommy - K6YE
DX IS
 
RE: CW at the end of the day...  
by PLANKEYE on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
For all of you that hang on it, brag about it, look at it on the wall and drool, post with it, boast about it, tell others they need one, tell others they need to post with one, think that they are above ones that don't have one.

HERE'S YOUR SIGN!!

Take a look at this thread and the posts made by all of the ones who hang on it, brag about it, look at it on the wall and drool, post with it, boast about it, tell others they need one, tell others they need to post with one, and the ones that think they are above the ones that don't have one.

IF YOU DO ONE THING RIGHT NOW, PLEASE GO BACK AND RE-READ EVERYTHING EVERYONE OF THE CALL SIGN CARRYING FOLKS HAD TO SAY IN THIS ARTICLE.

70 YEAR OLD PEOPLE TALKING LIKE A 14 YEAR OLD. WHAT THE HELL? YOU ALL SPEAK ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY, HOW ABOUT IT THEN? WHERE IS THE ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPECT?

RESPECT!!!!

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CALL SIGNS!!!

PLANKEYE




 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W3ML on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I can only say that CW was a big part of my life when I was younger. I worked a lot of CW in the first 20 years of being a ham.
Now that I have lost most of my hearing, I find it very difficult to copy the code. But, that doesn't stop me from trying.

Maybe someday one of you may hear my feeble call on the air.

73
John
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by W3JJM on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!


Nice article, Ernie!

Please post more in the future.

Joe
W3JJM
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by W4GFA on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Good Post Ernie.
This week, I had a new experience on 40-Meter CW.
Was working a new ham and it was a bit unusual.
His sending speed was about 26 Words per minute and
he was doing great. I noticed that it seemed to take him a long time....45 to 60 seconds to start sending
when it was his turn. Then, he allowed the cat to leave the bag. When he told me about his setup, he mentioned he was using a keyboard to send...and a code reader to de-code what I was sending. Then, he signed out and left the frequency. Then it occured to me he was typing his transmission into a buffer, and
letting the machine do the sending. My guess is that's why the long pause before his come back. I'm delighted that he has that much interest in operating an ancient mode like CW, and hope to see him again. It's a good bit less complicated to copy with your ears, but it takes time to be comfortable with the language!
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by N0AH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Plank Eye once again hides his real name behind a cartoon characer...................oh yeah, you have our respect-
 
RE: CW Music  
by W7NWH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I agree with VE2DSB. CW is total rhythm. It's also like riding a bike I got on the air on CW this weekend after a 28 year lapse. Rusty but it will come back.

 
RE: CW Music  
by W7NWH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
After reading this thread. I have to add a video of my father whom was in WWII and used CW daily as a Naval Radio Operator. He has some interesting comments about "speed", "quality" and "having a good fist".

hamradiohistory.com

 
RE: CW Music  
by EX_AA5JG on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Now if any want to have intelligent debate here post with your callsign. We're hams, not cbers and any post with a cb handle will be ignored by us all."

Says who? I won't ignore his/her posts, so "all of us" aren't ignoring them. Last time I checked, the FCC didn't require callsigns for non-RF paths.

73s John AA5JG
 
RE: CW Music  
by AC7ZL on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
If you want to nit-pick, a symbol-for-letter substitution is really a cipher, not a code.

That aside, I believe that once a person's brain gets acclimated to receiving cw at two-digit rates and up, musical patterns are perceived directly as words, and this processing takes place in the language centers of the brain. How do you figure that Morse is *not* a language?

This is the reason, by the way, that most who attempt to learn Morse by memorizing dashes and dots are doomed to failure. You have to learn to recognize letters by the *sounds* they make, not by the "dashes" and "dots."

It's a mechanized language, but it is a language just the same.

Pete
AC7ZL

> SSB said:
>Amateurs like to make meaningless proclamations about
>stuff. For example, cw is a language. No it isn't. CW
>'code' is code for letters of the alphabet which can be
>put together into many different languages, like
>English, French, or whatever.
>
>CW = a code for letters of the alphabet, that's all.
>
>
>Alex....
 
RE: CW Music  
by NXET on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
by K1CJS on October 28, 2007
"Now if any want to have intelligent debate here post with your callsign. We're hams, not cbers and any post with a cb handle will be ignored by us all."

Well said, John. Now if other identified hams would do just that, the cbers may soon leave. Hey--at least we can hope.


Damm you still on that kick K1CJS. I would have thought by now you had grown up between the ears a little more.

I guess its still your way or the highway. So you think.

When are you going to quit telling eveyone how to run their lives? I am sure others have already told you where you can get off. =grin- with that noise.




I have to agree with the others.. learning code is really backwards and time consuming when they have to go from seeing code on paper to hearing it and then haveing to put it into words and quit waisting paper. Some have a memory problem with their old age and have to write the words down. Thats OK and excuseable but most of the others don't.

I have been teaching CW on and off now for several years. I always find it frustrate'ng to have to retrain the ops and break them of the letter copy they learned from the ARRL and others.

Most have a blockage at about 13 wpm with this. Once they get retrained (move away from the letter groups and into words) its nothing for them to jump to 20 wpm and above quite quickly. Yes its all about the words and not the letters. Speed in comprehension is what the training is really all about. Most of the ones that I come across who have excelled in the training are frustrated at the slow cw now. They claim they forget the words between coffee runs while the guy on the other end is figuring out what letters he is sending and in what order.

Most also have goine to keyeres and away from the streight key. Then again you always run into that special ham who is using a keyboard and computer to send and recieve code with. Easy to mess up. Just change the weight and spaceing between letters and words. Miffs 'em off every time -grin-

Nothing like going on a camping trip and throwing up a small cw station just to have fun outside with. Could this be why heathkits qrp rigs are still in demand?

Yes CW on HF is a lot of fun that the others are missing out on. But, you have to practice every day to be profecent at it. The same as ni-cad batterys. If you lay off you will lose some of your charge and have to re-build it up again.

I met a old merchant navy guy once on a old ship, and we got into some cw traffic. I quit after 3 hours. He went all day and loved it. How them guys could go that long and not hear it in their sleep, is byond me. They would go from key to typewriter (mill) and not miss a beat) He used to tell of tails where CW ops would send ships off in wrong directions because they missed a key periode etc. In convoys that got some killed. The radio op was a very respected profession and placed above the crew according to him. The ship depended on him being right on all the time. I asked if they ever threw any of the overboard for screwing up. He called it keel hauling -grin-

Its a language all its own. A good book on CW was written some years ago. You can buy a copy from MFx cheap or read it off the internet.
its called the "THE ART AND SKILL OF RADIO-TELEGRAPHY" written by William G. Pierpoint N0HFF.
Check it out for some good pointers on cw skills.

enjoy and don't let eggheads like K1CJS bother you. He is just one of them lose cannons on deck with his demanding tripe
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by M0RNA on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
In days of old, when ops were bold,
and sidebands not invented.
The word would pass, by pounding brass,
and all were well contented.
 
RE: CW Music  
by K1CJS on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Before I was lambasted because someone believed I was against morse. Now I'm lambasted and called an egghead (BTW, thanks) because I made a statement that morse has its uses.

Hey--whatever mode you want to use, just use it. Please, however, don't try to make others embrace it as well. It is their decision--not yours.
 
RE: CW Music  
by KX8N on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Since this is still up:
"RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun Reply
by W6TH on October 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
K1CJS Chris,

You talk like a chicken with a paper ass hole."

We have to assume that either
a) Vito owns the site and can post whatever he wants,
b) eHam condones members using this kind of language and worse, condones members flaming and verbally assaulting one another, or
c) eHam forgets about an article once it's posted, and doesn't pay any attention to what's said in the replies.

Either way, a perfectly good article ends up ruined by one individual who finds a need to post hate and garbage directed at everyone else.
 
RE: CW Music  
by W6TH on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
KX8N

Another still operating the CB, can't give it up and he is addicted to simplicity.

.:
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W6TH on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
Help N0AH, has,

Lack of good sense or intelligence. "Badly Needs Help" to stabilize his anxiety disorder.

.:
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W6TH on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
K1CJS, Chris,

Once a punk, always a punk.

.:
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W6TH on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
Chris K1CJS,

Studying your philosophy it is seen that you were subject to child abuse. knowing this, I will overlook your problems in regards to being a punk.

.:
 
RE: CW Music  
by AB3CX on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Several days ago, I was calling CQ on 20 meter CW in the mid afternoon, and I got a call back at 15 WPM, with alot of errors, from a station in Italy. After several exchanges, and several apologies and many ongoing errors, the op offered that he was 95 years old and having increasing trouble sending CW well. However, he was very glad for the QSO and had no trouble copying my 25 WPM at all. Unlike Phone QSO's, we are "blind to the age, physical condition or health of the ops we talk to. Lots of the SSB chat on the air is about doctor visits, surgery, and other personal medical reports. Here was a Ham who was probably a great CW op at age 75, and younger. So keep that in perspective.
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W6TH on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.

One can now see an expression of affection among ham radio as it is today.

Try comparing this affection with the years before the lowering the standards of ham radio. It is no longer to be honored as a ham radio operator as it was back in the 1930's and if you can read between the lines the high respect no longer exists.

Be careful with whom you let your child play with, with
so much jealousy within. Old timers, are you content to the step down of ham radio?

.:
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by W6TH on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
I will be monitoring the frequency of 14.014 Mhz and will be willing to have a chat with one and all. I am ready as of now.

73, W6TH

.:
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by K1CJS on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
First, my apology for having to post an answer to W6TH here.

Vito--You always came across as a self proclaimed know it all--as a matter of fact, you told quite a few of us here that you knew more than anybody else here--or anywhere else.

When you say you studied something, it shocked me, because you have said you knew it all. Then I was mystified--you say you studied my philosophy. My philosophy is simple--one sentence. You had to study one sentence? Anyway, this is it--to treat others as they treat you.

Way back when, during the last famous argument, I was branded as an anti-code bigot by somebody on this site. I don't know who, it was one of the cb crowd with their handle instead of a call sign. You joined in and came after me with everything you had. Now you're on that list of mine that I mentioned. I treat you as you treated me. I just try to be polite about it--which is why I won't use the terminology you do.

There is one thing I can see, however. You say you know it all, and you refuse to learn from your blunders. I can see why you are the way you are. I do feel sorry for you. A question--have you considered psychiatric help for yourself?

One other thing, the affectations of hams to other hams is not limited to the ham fraternity--it is a symptom of society in general. Oh, I forgot--you already know that. Why didn't you say it in that way, then?
 
RE: CW Music  
by WR8D on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Mike,

A while back on 40m i answered a call to a station and he was doing around 5wpm. As i'd go back to him then turn the qso back over to him a station was keying on top of him laughing. We've all got to start somewhere. Yes too we'll all end up somewhere like the old gent you worked.

If one is used to fast speeds it's hard to copy slow, or at least it is for me. I've got carpul tunnel and had surgery on both hands and sometimes my fingers don't do what i tell them to..but i still can use my iambic paddle very well with very few errors. Point is there's all kinds of operators out there with problems. We seem to be forgetting to go back to the sending station at "his" speed instead of ours.

I saw up the thread someone mention working a station using a code reader. There's lots of them out there now. At least some of these new guys are interested and trying. I've worked a few new ones though that could really give any of us a workout, they could copy just fine and had great fists. Words getting around, more and more are getting interested. I've thanked NCI for what they've done several times here on eham. They wanted to have cw completely done away with. Yes they got the requirement dropped but have set the flame afire.

With all the bitching in recent years i've seen many operators digging their old paddles out and straight keys just to get back into the mode. Last nite in the 3500's there was lots of cw going on stateside.

Many are getting tired of the wide ssb eq crap and just looking for a change. Cw and the digital modes is where it's at.

My two cents on cw.

Now a comment on posting here with a name and callsign. We'll never get respectable here unless there's something to hold us all accountable. One up the thread commented on my saying we'll ignore anyone that does'nt post with a callsign. That's fine for you om you do your thing. It would be nice to have ham on ham discussion here, instead of all these chickenband weirdos coming in here from time to time flaming us all on every subject. Most no matter what the subject is will try their best just to piss a few of us off then there goes the thread.

If this is what you like here then that's sad for the rest of us. This is eham for amateur operators not some cb internet chat fest. That's my only complaint and the only reason i don't subscribe here. I've infact pointed out many of the cb flamers to the moderators of this site and they don't care. So i don't care to send them any money either. This is why i said what i did up the thread. Many won't be in such a hurry to spew if they had to be accountable for their comments instead of signing off with some ignorant cb handle or other junk.

Just needed to be said!

--... ...-- John WR8D
 
RE: CW Music  
by KA4KOE on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
And people still ask me why I quit writing for Eham.....
 
RE: CW Music  
by K4JSR on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
And why some have quit reading...
 
RE: CW Music  
by KC5CQD on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"We have to assume that either
a) Vito owns the site and can post whatever he wants,
b) eHam condones members using this kind of language and worse, condones members flaming and verbally assaulting one another, or
c) eHam forgets about an article once it's posted, and doesn't pay any attention to what's said in the replies.

Either way, a perfectly good article ends up ruined by one individual who finds a need to post hate and garbage directed at everyone else."



You do make a very valid point. Over the years I've slowly abandoned the internet in general. I use it to gather the info I need and/or to make purchases but that's about it. I realized long ago that you can't have intelligent debate via the internet. Something about it just tends to bring out the worst in people. Myself included! I'm not afraid to turn the circumspective finger on myself. I've gotten my dander up many times over silly and pointless arguements. Of course I do still drop by on occasion and read the threads and....of course....they're all still going about the same as usual.

But...getting back on track here...I have noticed that Eham does allow some pretty rude behavior by a select few and yet boots or bans people from the site that have written posts that aren't near as rude or filth-laden. It does make one stop and wonder.
 
RE: CW Music  
by AG4RQ on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
by KA4KOE:
"And people still ask me why I quit writing for Eham....."


by K4JSR:
"And why some have quit reading..."

This is why my visits to this site are much less frequent than they used to be, and my posts are even fewer and further between than my visits.

This was a good article, but because it is about CW, the usual flame wars erupted. It happens every time there's an article about CW. Long live CW! Don't let flame wars deter any of you CW aficionados from writing articles about CW and posting good and interesting stuff about CW.

KC5CQD is right. The Internet seems to bring out the worst in people, the same as driving. Ordinary people turn into monsters when they're behind the wheel or behind a keyboard.
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by N3QE on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I've done a lot of CW operating over the past 30 years. For a while I was distracted by computers and RTTY and packet, but now I'm back to CW again :-).

I don't think that newbies on CW are ever the problem.

I do think that folks who cannot even legibly send their own callsign are a problem. There are a lot of them. And most of them are oldtimers. I do not have an explanation for why folks simply run every letter of their callsign together or leave out parts with the assumption that the guy they're calling will know what to fill in.

I think that maybe the illegibly-sent calls are similar to the voice practice of using custom "cutesy" phonetics, but I can't explain that practice either! It may be fine with the guy you ragchew with every afternoon because he knows your fist or your voice, but it's not the way we're supposed to run!
 
RE: CW Music  
by VE2DSB on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"It's nice to see 'QRL?' at the beginning!"

A part of the "Q" code I never heard again since 1990...HI!

Ciao! guy's
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by W8KQE on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
CW ROCKS! I want to build a CW sidetone generator that emulates/sounds like a string section of an orchestra! I could compose my own symphony as I work the DX!!!

"V" "V"!!!!!!!!
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by N7YA on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Just the same old stuff on here....its exactly the same as road rage, only safer. The best bet, and you can take this how you like, is to read the parent article, get what you can from it and read no further than the bottom of the article. if you venture into the actual comment's section, you might be a rubbernecker...if you get embroiled in the back-and-forth comments, flame wars, insulting and cursing, ego and high blood pressure...then you are addicted to drama. either that, or you just need to pull back and shut this thing off.

Ive sworn off certain people on here, i realized they come here every single day of their lives and throw rocks at the beehive to see what swarms out...now i ignore them and my life is a lot less stressful. give it a go! you will be happier.

73...Adam, N7YA
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by RADIOGUYR2 on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I agree

NXET has a good point in his writing. Notice he always adds something to the web in a positve light.

I went to the site he advised and found it very interesting. Learned a lot of new things from hams that are SK's but had time to write about it.

So many just get on here to be negative and spiteful. What happened to helping instead of degrading?

What really gets to me is the constant voice transmissions you hear from DX stations and the VE's right in the middle of the CW band. Listening down in the SSB section but transmitting in the CW sections. What ever happened to respect for the band plan. If they contenue to thumb their nose at us, I feel like RTTY might be the answer on the frequency.

I am sure the FCC doesn't care about it. Neither would the ARRL but it is bad when your trying to hear a weak CW station and suddenly have some bonehead blast through on voice that then disturbs the contact. Makes you want to adopt the CB ways if they were close.

And its getting worse. Now we have contesters all runing over the band thinking everyone is into contesting. I had one that just sat their on top of our CW qso. When I put the boots on, suddenly he started shouting intentional interfearance and jamming. The truth is, we went to higher power to contenue our QSO after he sat on top and tried to stake his claim to the frequency. But the other station was only running solar power and 2 watts. No match for the Canadian station who I am sure was running a KW and beam.

So the question I have is--- how can you bust this guy for being in our CW section of the band?

If this is the way its going to be then why have classes of license, band plans and anything else. Instead just one big free for all.
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by N6NKN on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
RADIOGUYR2,

Guess you better look at the Canadian band plan.
 
RE: CW Music  
by N2EY on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
W7AIT wrote some good info on CW operation. I'll add a few comments about how to do even more with less.

W7AIT example:

"QRL? QRL?"

I'd just send "didit..dit" or "?" to see if the
frequency is in use. Takes less time than "QRL?".
Both are correct, of course.

W7AIT example:

"CQ CQ CQ DE W7AIT CQ CQ CQ DE W7AIT K
(pause to listen for a reply)
CQ CQ CQ DE W7AIT CQ CQ CQ DE W7AIT K"

That works FB but I have found the following sequence works even better:

"CQ CQ CQ DE W7AIT W7AIT W7AIT
CQ CQ DE W7AIT W7AIT
CQ DE W7AIT K"
(pause to listen for a reply)

That 3-2-1 sequence gives the other op several
chances to get your call and get his rig going
on your frequency.

W7AIT example: "W7AIT DE WD6CNF WD6CNF K"

Usually "AR" is used at the end of a call instead of K, before contact is established. (WD6CNF does not know if W7AIT hears him).

W7AIT example: "WD6CNF DE W7AIT GM OM. UR RST 579 579 BT MY QTH IS MODESTO MODESTO, CA, CA. MY NAME IS CHIP CHIP BT SO BKTU WD6CNF DE W7AIT KN"

N2EY example: "WD6CNF DE W7AIT GM BT UR 579 579 IN MODESTO CA MODESTO CA BT OP HR CHIP CHIP BT WD6CNF DE W7AIT KN"

Note how much can be removed without losing any of the meaning.

W7AIT example: "R R R DE WD6CNF FB CHIP BT UR RST 5NN 599 IN ROSEVILLE ROSEVILLE, CA CA BT OP HR IS GRANT GRANT BT WX COLD 42F RAIN BT SO BKTU CHIP W7AIT DE WD6CNF KN"

N2EY example: "W7AIT DE WD6CNF R FB CHIP BT UR 5NN 599 IN ROSEVILLE CA ROSEVILLE CA BT OP HR GRANT GRANT BT WX COLD 42F RAIN BT W7AIT DE WD6CNF KN"

W7AIT example: "R R WD6CNF DE W7AIT R FB GRANT BT RIG IS 30 WATTS ES DIPOLE AT 25 FEET BT TNX FER FB QSO 73 ES CUL WD6CNF DE W7AIT KN"

N2EY example: "WD6CNF DE W7AIT R FB GRANT BT RIG 30W ES DIPOLE AT 25 FT BT TNX FB QSO 73 BCNU SK WD6CNF DE W7AIT K"

Since W7AIT is ending the QSO, he sends "SK" (with the letters run together as if one - didididdahdidah).

W7AIT example: "R R DE WD6CNF R CHIP TNX FER FB QSO BT 73 ES BEST OF LUCK BT CUL 73 W7AIT DE WD6CNF SK SK"

N2EY example: "W7AIT DE WD6CNF R CHIP TNX FB QSO BT 73 ES BST LK BT CUL SK W7AIT DE WD6CNF"

Note that SK goes *before* the callsigns.

If either station was leaving the air and not listening for calls, he would add "CL" at the very end:

".....de WD6CNF CL"

"DIT DIT

DIT DIT"

I agree - final doorknob-polish is always kinda fun!

These are fine points, not a big deal. But it is the fine points that can save time and make a good QSO a great one.

73 es BCNU de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by RADIOGUYR2 on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
The HF Band Plan is a voluntary, gentleman's agreement, intended for the guidance of and observation by Canadian Radio Amateurs. Without these guidelines chaos would set in. The main mode of enforcement is peer pressure.

then tell me why I keep hearing V's in the middle of the cw section especally during a contest like last weekend?

Where are they coming from then? if they allow DX phone in the same band as our CW, (7040 on up) I can see how this is going to do exactly as they don't want from above.

I live in the US. And they are in MY band where it says only CW. I guess the FCC needs to get their pencil out and do a revision to squeeze the CW band even more to allow the lip flappers some more room. But when they run out of clear air (such as in the CW section) and everyone is flapping, then what they going to do. Right now it seems a little one sided when them being able to run over CW stations in our section of the band. Gets to where you start getting out the shotgun and oiling it up sometimes. My view of the neighbors to the north has taken on a whole new abusive attitude after some of their abusive band takeovers.

I had one say " the code is dead. Get a voice". All well and good for him but, you touch that mic and your local FCC is going to come visit you instead of them.

Clearly there is little or no respect for the CW ops when it comes to their contest and band plan.

When I hear them call, I spin the dial now.

too bad our governments can't get along and come up with one band plan for the whole world. Then again stupidity and non-achievements is in today. I keep telling myself, " its just a hobby".

Having writtent he FCC about this, I find they keep silent. (I also asked about working CW in the 3600-3700 section of the new EXTRA LAZY class band where we who are not EXTRAS used to work until recently) again no reply. ( I have been asked, and asked others in the CW bands if we can still go their) So the questions still are not answered as to can you or can't you from both the ARRL and FCC. Guess you just have to wait till a pink slip is made out to find out.

As to the V DX clowns that operate in our cw band, I have found that taking up RTTY works for me. (never used that button on the rig before- but it does work- son-a-ma-gun. Had one answer back on RTTY saying that he couldn't hear anything DX. Aw Gee-- was my reply, too bad.
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by KB9RQZ on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
<trying for contructive critizism>

you know if you want to promote morse Code use it might help not to chrun out articales that say basicaly the same thing over and over would help

according to some insanity consists of trying the same thing over and over expectiong a different result

the same sort of stuff ain't convinced me in 10 years why is it going to convince me now?

good on your effort OTOH if this is best promtion Morse get Id say it is doomedto delcine to about the level of usage of AM
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by N6NKN on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
RADIOGUYR2,

Perhaps 30 meters would be more to your liking. :-)
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by WB2WIK on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
That there even *is* a new crop of CW operators is encouraging to me.

I don't make fun of their operating technique or lack of it, figuring they'll all catch on if they want to.

There was a great article in QST about 40-50 years ago (maybe by John Troster, I don't recall...need to find it) called, "Henry, Are You Drunk?" about a CW QSO between an experienced OT op and a newbie; it was hilarious.

QST needs to reprint that one, it's still appropriate today.

WB2WIK/6
 
RE: CW Music  
by NI0C on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
N2EY:
I agreed with almost everything you said in your latest posting, however I'd like to discuss the following:

"W7AIT example:

"QRL? QRL?"

I'd just send "didit..dit" or "?" to see if the
frequency is in use. Takes less time than "QRL?".
Both are correct, of course."

The sending of lone question marks should be discouraged, in my opinion. The only thing conveyed by the ? is that there is a clueless ham itching to transmit. I would emphasize that one should listen carefully on a frequency, perhaps for a minute or so, before even sending out QRL? In many cases, one can learn by listening only whether a frequency is in use-- that's preferrable to the sometimes overworked QRL's and question marks.

73,
Chuck NI0C
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by N0AH on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
The HF Band Plans are only voluntary in certain sections, like 160 meters.

You can not do SSB on 14.143MHz etc......but it is easy to get confused.

It would be nice to see the ARRL put out a confusion free band plan sheet. Reading a FCC rule book helps-

Now this does involve CW so I'll comment here. In 2000, there was a move to rid the DX window of SSB and just leave it open for CW. In order to do this, a lot of us with high high Q 160M antennas had to recut and/or revise our antennas. All this for about a dozen stateside operators.

The plan has stuck but it is not federally mandated. It is voluntary and we've adjusted, sort of. Don't look for too much more in voluntary changes. There is just too much potential to cause interference in other RF regions around the world.

 
RE: CW Music  
by W6TH on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
Usually "AR" is used at the end of a call instead of K, before contact is established. (WD6CNF does not know if W7AIT hears him).

Wrong. It is used at the end of your transmitting such as bck to you "AR" W3xxx de W7xxx K

W7AIT example: "WD6CNF DE W7AIT GM OM. UR RST 579 579 BT MY QTH IS MODESTO MODESTO, CA, CA. MY NAME IS CHIP CHIP BT SO BKTU WD6CNF DE W7AIT KN"

BKTU is computer talk. Should be BCK to u "AR" DE W7AIT K and no KN

N2EY example: "WD6CNF DE W7AIT GM BT UR 579 579 IN MODESTO CA MODESTO CA BT OP HR CHIP CHIP BT WD6CNF DE W7AIT KN"

Agn no KN. KN is used for working dx and to keep others from using their call to break into the contact, means wait until I am finished with this contact, then call.

Seems not many have been reading the ARRL operating procedures and by the way, BK is for breakin and BCK is for the word back.

As always in ham radio of the past, the "handle" was used and not "name" to identify the op.

Much is confusing for the new as ham radio is now a mixture of CB,computer and internet. Promote the ARRL procedure and put it on eHam for all to follow, may save much confusion and mis-leading procedure. State the fact it is ARRL procedure and will take and effect.

W6TH

.:



 
RE: CW Music  
by N2EY on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
NI0C writes:

"The sending of lone question marks should be discouraged, in my opinion. The only thing conveyed by the ? is that there is a clueless ham itching to transmit. I would emphasize that one should listen carefully on a frequency, perhaps for a minute or so, before even sending out QRL? In many cases, one can learn by listening only whether a frequency is in use-- that's preferrable to the sometimes overworked QRL's and question marks."

I agree that one should listen carefully on any frequency before transmitting. That's good practice for any mode.

But simply listening won't tell you for 100% sure that the frequency isn't in use. That requires transmitting, to see if anyone answers.

For example, suppose that W1AAA and K2BBB are in QSO, but from my QTH W1AAA cannot be heard, due to skip zone, distance, beam heading, etc. It's reasonable to assume that if I can't hear W1AAA, he can't hear me.

Also suppose K2BBB *can* hear me - in theory, I can hear him. Obviously, if I wait long enough, K2BBB will come on the air and I will hear him and know the frequency is in use. But how long should I listen? 30 seconds? A minute? Five minutes? At some point it makes sense to make some noise on the frequency to see if it's in use.

At that point, whenever it is, it seems to me that sending "?" or "didit...dit" makes more sense than pounding out "QRL? QRL?" because the former takes much less time than the latter. If there really is someone on frequency that I cannot hear, the less I send the better, right?

I've had the experience of sending "?" and getting a 40 over 9 "C" (meaning "yes" as in "yes, the freq is in use") on what sounded like a perfectly dead frequency. Turned out I was in the skip zone of most folks in a net. I QSY'd of course.

Other times I have sent "?" and gotten "GA" (go ahead) as the response, and a nice QSO resulted. Turned out another ham was listening on the exact same frequency to see if it was busy! If we'd both just listened, we'd never have connected.

It seems to me that what while we should always Listen First, simply hearing nothing doesn't mean the frequency is unoccupied.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: CW Music  
by N3OX on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"there was a move to rid the DX window of SSB and just leave it open for CW. In order to do this, a lot of us with high high Q 160M antennas had to recut and/or revise our antennas. All this for about a dozen stateside operators."

A dozen?

I've heard WAY more than a dozen doing DX CW work down on 160m and it is a fact that it's hard to work CW and SSB in the same subband simultaneously.

Maybe you think W8JI and W4ZV and whoever else is a big 160m guy pushed this stuff through (heck, it's probably true), but there is actually a benefit to it.

My high-Q 160m antenna has a vacuum variable capacitor in it driven by a motor... pick a frequency, 1800 to 2000 and I'll meet you there! ;-)

If you want to find me though, I'll probably be between about 1815 and 1840.

Dan

 
RE: CW Music  
by N2EY on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I previously wrote:

"Usually "AR" is used at the end of a call instead of K, before contact is established. (WD6CNF does not know if W7AIT hears him)."

For example: "W7AIT DE WD6CNF AR"

W6TH replies:

"Wrong. It is used at the end of your transmitting such as bck to you "AR" W3xxx de W7xxx K"

Not according to ARRL publications. AR is used for two purposes:

1) At the end of a call before contact has been established.

2) At the end of a formal message. It is then followed by "B" if there are more messages, or "N" if not.

For example:

"....AND TELL DADDY TO SEND MY CHECK ASAP X LOVE BT DOLLY AR N"

Been that way for many decades. There is no need of a prosign before the callsign exchange in a QSO.

W6TH: "BKTU is computer talk. Should be BCK to u "AR" DE W7AIT K and no KN"

BK usually means "break", not "back", and using it may confuse the receiving op.

TU usually means "thank you"

There is really no need for 'back to you' IMHO, because it's obvious from the callsigns that you are turning it over. Same for "AR" - no need for it during a QSO.

N2EY example: "WD6CNF DE W7AIT GM BT UR 579 579 IN MODESTO CA MODESTO CA BT OP HR CHIP CHIP BT WD6CNF DE W7AIT KN"

W6TH: "Agn no KN. KN is used for working dx and to keep others from using their call to break into the contact, means wait until I am finished with this contact, then call."

Not exactly. It means "I only want this specific station, all others keep out." Not just for DX, and there is no guarantee that I will be listening after the contact for any callers.

W6TH: "Seems not many have been reading the ARRL operating procedures"

I have, and what I wrote is straight from them. ARRL Handbook, Operating an Amateur Radio Station, "Your Novice Accent", QST, and many other ARRL publications all say the same thing, just as I have described above.
At least for the past 60 years or so.

W6TH: "As always in ham radio of the past, the "handle" was used and not "name" to identify the op."

"Handle" used to simply be slang for "name", and wasn't even radio-specific. Many still use it.

But "handle" is six letters, "name" is only four, and "op" is only two. Seems to me that on CW, "op" would be preferable. Or "sine", meaning "signature", because some ops use their initials rather than name.

Hams stop using "handle" because of what cb did to the meaning of the word. CB folks started using "handles" as a way to *hide* their real identity. We hams don't do that.

W6TH: "Promote the ARRL procedure and put it on eHam for all to follow, may save much confusion and mis-leading procedure. State the fact it is ARRL procedure and will take and effect."

I agree! That's what I did. Straight from the ARRL Handbook.

Want to see actual quotes?

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: CW Music  
by N2EY on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
N3OX writes:

"I've heard WAY more than a dozen doing DX CW work down on 160m"

Here's one data point:

During the last ARRL 160 meter contest, 1053 logs were received by Hq. Of those, 997 were from US amateurs.

The 160 meter contest is *all CW*.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: CW Music  
by PLANKEYE on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I enjoyed the article and thought it was well written.

I thought when the FCC started to drop requirements to obtain this License that it would go all to crap.

As time progressed and more requirements were taken away, I really thought the hobby was in the bag for sure.

Now as I sit here and read all of what the guys that have accountability, did get the License when the requirement was strict have to say, I realized something I overlooked.

I realized that it doesn't matter near as much how you get it, but what you do with it after you have it that matters most. Don't believe it, look at the posts above!!

Some of you just don't care to have respect anymore for anyone, and no test, no mode, no amp or radio, no big antenna, years of experience, or a Call/Login name will change it. Only YOU WILL!!

Funny name PLANKEYE. It's not a Call, make fun of me being a CB man, call me whatever you choose, say what you will.

PLANKEYE



 
RE: CW Music  
by N3OX on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Here's one data point:

During the last ARRL 160 meter contest, 1053 logs were received by Hq. Of those, 997 were from US amateurs.
"

Here's another... in the ongoing VP2MZM pileup around 1823 I've copied

1) VE1DUN
2) AK4RS
3) WB2MIC
4) AB3BK
5) K9RT
6) W8XD
7) W7JW
8) N4DSP
9) W0JPL
10) N2WM
11) W2RIJ
12) K1EO
13) K8AJS
14) W1YM
15) W5OZI
16) K3OMI
17) W6BH
18) W1BYH
19) K2UO
20) AG9S
21) N9RS
22) VE3FRX
23) W3GQ


Any of them on the list of a dozen hams who want 160m CW space all to themselves? Maybe one or two, but all benefit.

It's a good band plan, I think.

I can keep going, it's fun to pull calls out of a pileup... that's probably not even a third of the callers.

There may only be a few guys who can work 300 countries on Topband in the states but there are a whole bunch of people who want to give 160 CW DX a try.

I'd have a really hard time hearing the EU stations that tend to be about equal with the noise if the bottom part of 160m was always full with phone QSOs!

Dan


 
RE: CW Music  
by W5HTW on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Re: AR

For those of us who did military, commercial or government communications, AR means "nothing follows."


The correct usage, in fact, is by W1AW. At the very end of their bulletins the very last thing they send, the VERY last thing, is AR

.... de W1AW AR

That means: I have nothing more. I am not listening for you. I am done. I'm outta here. Bye. No "K", no "KN" no "CL" no "SK" Just "AR"

AR sent before the call sign exchange really doesn't make much sense to me. But I admit, I really don't care, since I know what the fellow is "intending" to say!

"BK" one character run together, means "break." "BK" as two letters, means "back." That's pretty standard and well known in ham and commercial/govt radio. Whereas "BT" (one character) means "break in the text."

"SK" is a ham radio thingie only, as is "CL" Neither of them has any use in non-ham radio. "SK" (single character) means "my last transmission. Ain't sendin' no mo'" "CL" (two separate characters) means "as soon as I git mah hand offen the key, I is cutting the power off."

"KN" also is a ham only gidget. And it does mean "I am listening for the station whose call sign I just gave and no one else. I will not answer anyone else."

But we hear a lot of folks who end a CQ call with "KN" which is "I'm calling anyone, but don't answer me."

A CQ call should end with "K" "K" is the CW equivalent of "go ahead." Or "over."

Some of our 'guard' tapes (you know, the VVV VVV VVV DE CALL CALL CALL) ended with AR It meant there is nothing to follow. However one minute later, the tape would run again. Some of our tapes ended in "K" For those who monitored maritime CW stations, like WLO, WLM, etc., you heard they mostly ended with a "K"

Often, if we were sending specific, repeated information (such as a traffic list) it would end with AR. That merely meant there was no more to follow, the list was complete. Still it would be repeated after a period of listening.

If we were just sending a list of the frequencies were were monitoring, it usually ended in "K"

CW is fun, even with the variable use of prosigns today. We are amateurs, not pros, and a dab of variation is fine, as long as our meaning gets across.

73
ed
 
RE: CW Music  
by N2EY on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
W5HTW writes:

"For those of us who did military, commercial or government communications, AR means "nothing follows." "

I should clarify that I was describing amateur practice only.

"The correct usage, in fact, is by W1AW. At the very end of their bulletins the very last thing they send, the VERY last thing, is AR

.... de W1AW AR

That means: I have nothing more. I am not listening for you. I am done. I'm outta here. Bye. No "K", no "KN" no "CL" no "SK" Just "AR" "

I interpret that AR to mean "end of message", same as in amateur traffic handling.

""SK" is a ham radio thingie only, as is "CL" Neither of them has any use in non-ham radio. "SK" (single character) means "my last transmission. Ain't sendin' no mo'" "CL" (two separate characters) means "as soon as I git mah hand offen the key, I is cutting the power off." "

Agreed! But SK derives from the American Morse version of the WU abbreviation "30", meaning "end of transmission".


"But we hear a lot of folks who end a CQ call with "KN" which is "I'm calling anyone, but don't answer me.""

In 40 years of hamming, I've never heard anyone do that!

A CQ call should end with "K" "K" is the CW equivalent of "go ahead." Or "over."

"Some of our 'guard' tapes (you know, the VVV VVV VVV DE CALL CALL CALL) ended with AR It meant there is nothing to follow. However one minute later, the tape would run again. Some of our tapes ended in "K" For those who monitored maritime CW stations, like WLO, WLM, etc., you heard they mostly ended with a "K""

I guess the difference is whether the station was actually listening for calls or not.

"Often, if we were sending specific, repeated information (such as a traffic list) it would end with AR. That merely meant there was no more to follow, the list was complete. Still it would be repeated after a period of listening. "

Sounds like 'end of message'...

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by K6TXD on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Ernie nice post.

I am one of the original ‘Nocode techs’ I became a Ham in 1991. I always wanted to work HF I tried to learn CW over the years but for some it didn’t take. When the FCC started making some real noise about taking away the code requirements I started practicing code. I filled up three 70-page spiral notebooks, that is a lot of practice. I took the 5 WPM test three times before I passed. I personally think that the tester passed me out of sympathy.

I pushed myself to learn CW because I wanted to be able to say that got my license while code was still a requirement even if it was at a mere 5 WPM. The other reason was to avoid static from the old timers. When I became a Ham we and I mean the no code techs were lambasted continually, attacked and verbally abused. I heard it all, we were going to make Ham radio into CB. We were ruining the hobby. I quit my ham club because of these old timers. These hams were in their sixties and seventies at the time (1991). Most likely dead now. They should have spent their limited time and energy on this Earth to nurture us new hams. To be Elmer’s to us, to help us get skilled as operators and to show us how useful and fun CW is. Instead of attacking us just because we didn’t learn code at the time.

At the moment I operate exclusively CW I can receive at 15 WPM on a good day, I still struggle. I have 8 states towards my WAS in CW. I found that CW is a fine way to operate and is a blast. I have learned that it does get through when all other modes fail. Another thing, CW is still used on police; fire and other government radio systems for FCC required ID purposes. Not to mention the high speed CW used in EME and meteor scatter modes. It is hard to learn but once you get started it gets easier as you go.

Another thing I have learned, knowing CW does not necessarily make one a good operator. Over the past fifteen years or so I have noticed that in magazine write ups when a ham gets indicted for jamming a repeater, causing malicious interference on the HF bands or profanity more times than not it is one of our upper classmen like a 20 WPM extra or a 13 WPM general or advance operator. Don’t believe me look at the back issues of CQ, 73, QST or Ham radio.

CW isn’t for everyone. Historically many generals and extras get their license and never use CW for whatever reasons. And these operators would be piss poor ops if they were pressed into CW operations just like the guy who didn’t learn code. Then there are the people that just don’t like CW. Knowing CW does not make you a better operator. Knowing the regulations, technical aspects of our hobby and how to properly operate your gear make one a better operator.

Gerry k6txd
 
RE: CW Music  
by W6TH on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.
How things get twisted.

"SK" is a ham radio thingie only, as is "CL" Neither of them has any use in non-ham radio. "SK" (single character) means "my last transmission. Ain't sendin' no mo'" "CL" (two separate characters) means "as soon as I git mah hand offen the key, I is cutting the power off.
................................................

SK came from land line morse and a "VE" is a number 3, the long dah is a zero in land morse and stands for zero '0", di di di dah dit daaah. When "SK" sent meant will not come back finished. 30 in land morse means the same as SK in ham radio.

CL was saying closing down my station, simple as all that. an "N" sent is usually sent after messages are sent and indicates no more. Mostly used in traffic handling only. The US navy on their bulletins will end by sending NNN and in NTS traffic N it means no more traffic.

N2EY has a combination of a mix with rag chewing and traffic handling, he is confusing again on his ARRL procedure as the two are used slightly in some different occasions.

I can sign /BPL after my call sign signifying I have the Brass Pounders certificate for handling over 500 messages in one month. Not an easy certificate to acquire today. Also, that is how I acquired my A1 operators cert by handling traffic.

73, W6TH/BPL

.:
 
RE: CW Music  
by N2EY on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
W6TH writes:

"N2EY has a combination of a mix with rag chewing and traffic handling, he is confusing again on his ARRL procedure as the two are used slightly in some different occasions."

I'm not confusing anything about ARRL procedure.

It's really pretty simple:

K is used at the end of a CQ, and during a QSO when it is OK for others to join:

"CQ CQ CQ DE N2EY N2EY N2EY K"

"...OP HR JIM JIM W1AW DE N2EY K"

---

KN is used during a QSO when it is not OK for others to join:

"...PSE QSL JIM I NEED YOUR COUNTY N2EY DE VK9NR KN"

---

AR is used when replying to a CQ and at the end of formal messages, after the signature:

"N2EY DE W1AW AR"

"...AND TELL DADDY TO SEND MY CHECK ASAP X LOVE BT DOLLY AR N"

N after the AR means "no more", "B" means " more to follow"

---

SK is used before the last exchange of callsigns:

"...TNX QSO JIM ES BCNU 73 SK N2EY DE W1AW.."

---

CL is used at the very end only when closing down"

"...BCNU ED 73 SK W1AW DE N2EY CL"

---

And that's about it. Right out of the ARRL Handbook. I didn't make any of this up, nor confuse any of it. Dig out your Handbook and see.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by N2EY on October 29, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Radioguyr2 writes:

"then tell me why I keep hearing V's in the middle of the cw section especally during a contest like last weekend?"

Because they can go anywhere in the band. Most other countries have no subbands-by-mode, just voluntary bandplans.

"I live in the US. And they are in MY band where it says only CW."

Actually, it says CW and data.

"I guess the FCC needs to get their pencil out and do a revision to squeeze the CW band even more to allow the lip flappers some more room."

Be careful what you ask for, they'll do it! Look what happened to 80/75 meters.

"Right now it seems a little one sided when them being able to run over CW stations in our section of the band."

That's why you need good narrow filters.

"Clearly there is little or no respect for the CW ops when it comes to their contest and band plan."

They go down lower to get away from US ham's phone QRM.

"too bad our governments can't get along and come up with one band plan for the whole world."

You really don't want that. Here's why:

In most of the rest of the world, there are no subbands-by-mode at all. It's all left to voluntary bandplans. It works in most places because there aren't too many hams, particularly ones with high power stations.

But here in the USA we have over 320,000 hams with General, Advanced or Extra licenses. All have high power privileges on all HF bands. The rest of the world combined probably has about as many hams with high power HF licenses.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: CW Music  
by W4MY on October 30, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
W6TH: You are in the A1 Operator's Club? Wow.

If its true (and I'm not saying it is) Doesn't say alot for them in my opinion.

You just don't strike me as the type that a true first class operator would want in their company.

There's alot more to an A1 "character" than how fast you can push a paddle.

If you ever hear me on the air, keep turning that big round thing in the middle.

Marty Young / W4MY



 
RE: CW Music  
by K8AI on October 30, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Yeah, really. From reading W6TH's prideful postings, I can't see how he could be on the A-1 Op list in good standing. He might be a candidate for removal from the club.

Old doesn't always mean "better"... Only "if it be found in the way of righteousness" (Proverbs 16:31).

Curt, K8AI

 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by N2EY on October 30, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
WB2WIK writes: "There was a great article in QST about 40-50 years ago (maybe by John Troster, I don't recall...need to find it) called, "Henry, Are You Drunk?" about a CW QSO between an experienced OT op and a newbie; it was hilarious."

I remember that one! But I don't think it was a W6ISQ story. Definitely worth a read.

WB2WIK: "QST needs to reprint that one, it's still appropriate today."

Yep.

I think ARRL could perform a valuable service and make a ton of $ by reprinting the following, as a series of books or one massive volume:

- The "T.O.M." stories, by HP Maxim. Most of them still apply today.

- The "Gil" cartoons - all of them. There was a book of selected cartoons some years back but it barely scratched the surface.

- The W4VT stories ("To A Lady With Red Hair", "Freshman Marlowe" and "Jim"). There are only three of them but they are the very best there is.

- The W6ISQ stories

- The W9BRD DX editorials that included the DXHPDS meetings and his encounters with Grommethead Schulz.

- The "Dixie Jones Owl Juice" columns

- The April Fools' edition from the 1930s (1933?), where half the whole issue was a parody. Predated the National Lampoon by decades. Who wouldn't be interested in a magazine by the American Radiator Delay League, where one could read about such advances as the Milkotron?

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: CW Music  
by N6NKN on October 30, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
A-1 Operators Club;

Who to nominate #3.

Judgment and Courtesy. "Courteous and considerate of the others point of view. Takes every opportunity to assist others, especially beginners. Patient and helpful at all times, and never knowlingly operates in such a way as to lessen the pleasure of others."
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by WR8D on October 30, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Best idea Adam i've heard in a long time.

--... ...-- John
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by K1CJS on October 30, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I should have said this in the beginning--nice article, Ernie. It is true that some people learned and then promptly forgot morse code, and some people strive to master it but their fist never improves--that is they never get the rhythm down right.

One post in particular caught my eye--Gerry, K6TXD made it.

"CW isn’t for everyone. Historically many generals and extras get their license and never use CW for whatever reasons. And these operators would be piss poor ops if they were pressed into CW operations just like the guy who didn’t learn code. Then there are the people that just don’t like CW. Knowing CW does not make you a better operator. Knowing the regulations, technical aspects of our hobby and how to properly operate your gear make one a better operator."

I agree with him. Morse code knowledge may make you a more rounded ham, it won't make you a better one. It isn't necessary to know and use morse to be an excellent operator.
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by N3JBH on October 30, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
73, W6TH/BPL

BPL ? Ok i can see the B in brass and the P in pounder
but being we youngster's need educated Vito what is the L :)

I would wonder if maybe BPL stood for Big Pile of Lard?

Ok to the Brass pounders i am sorry. Vito you should really consider being nicer to folks on here. A gentleman of your vintage would probally make for some really enjoyable conversations. I am sure as you have lead us to beleive you have seen many changes in your times.

And if you could in a nice manner set back and in a rather polite manner set back and tell some them things to us. I am sure it would be really interesting. futhermore i would bet you would get some really swell coments.

Your lexicon would dazzle most of us. and put folks like me to shame. so why not sit back and tell us about the past. both the good and the not so good.

Tell us about past stations you operated or built. tell us about some the best times you had. tell us the rag chews that really hold a soft spot. i know many of us would sit back and enjoy reading them.

ok i am done 73 Jeff
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by K1CJS on October 30, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
How about Brass Pounders League? In this case, though, I'm just not sure it is made up--and means nothing......
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by W4NTI on October 30, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I like this CQ format, it was recommended many years ago.

CQ CQ CQ DE W4NTI W4NTI
CQ CQ CQ DE W4NTI W4NTI
K

The point being to get you call out there to be heard.

You said "Do not call CQ for three minutes without sending your call sign. Old timer are the worse offenders for this. Old timers can be lids too."

I agree with that, but I don't ever recall a OT doing such. And I do a lot of CW. Perhaps your just lucky.. hi.

CW is a lot of fun actually, I notice a lot of new guys/gals jumping in. When I hear them I slow down and have a chat. Remember guys, we all started out like that.

I would recommend the new Extra's stay out of the Extra CW sub-bands. Unless you can do AT LEAST 20.

Why you ask, especially if it is dead...That's where the DX hangs out. And the big guns hunting it.

Also when you hear a call such as this CQ DX that means outside of this continent. In other words a KA7 in Utah is not DX to a station in Fl. hi.

Dan/W4NTI
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by N3PZZ on October 30, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Gentlemen,
Instead of wasting air time sitting here fighting and farting about nothing, why not get on the air instead?
Would that not be better than wasting good air time?
If you do CW, enjoy every minute of it, if you enjoy picking up a mic, enjoy that too. Why waste time fighting over it?
My friend Peggy once told me, you can't change the thoughts of an idiot, just ignore them and evently,
they will go away.
So why are you sitting there reading this?
Go get on the air.....

 
RE: CW Music  
by N6HPX on October 30, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
As reading some of the many comments here, in someways CW is a language and just like my trying to learn the Mandarin or Tagalog it took time to learn it, my feeling is if you want to learn it bad enough you worked at it.
As for those who worked for the code tests but never used it after they did I am probably as guilty as the next guy/gal as in my job its hard to carry 100 pounds of ham gear from place to place.But I still try to listen when I can as its hard on certain ships..
CW to me is a great mode and one that was worht the effort to do. I had little choice its either pass the tests or sit around 27 years for a program that might not have ever happened.
I live overseas and durning m last trip home only heard a little CW.
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by VA3API on October 30, 2007 Mail this to a friend!

I am a young Ham I am 42 and I am all CW. I got my license when I was in my twenties. I've always been the young guy at the club and at the contests and I still am.

In the past two years I have yet to have a CW QSO with any ham that wasn't at least 50 years old. I wonder every day about the future of ham radio because I don't see younger hams getting into this.

They are all about the internet and can't understand why we do what we do when we have the Internet.

Many would be new hams run from this hobby because of the code requirements. In Canada it was 10 wpm they never had a 5 wpm that I am aware. So I am devided on this code issue.

If they put in high code requirements for licensing then in this day and age many thinking about getting into ham radio might say why bother.

But then if there is no code ham radio could become like CB polluted. With all this wireless internet and cell phone technology I wonder if we are going to loose our frequencies as the number of hams die off.

Might thoughts for a young guy.


 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by N2EY on October 31, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
VA3API writes: "I've always been the young guy at the club and at the contests and I still am."

A big part of that has to do with how life has changed in the past several decades. People still have plenty of free time, but they don't often have it in large, predictable blocks anymore. Things like club meetings just aren't practical for a lot of folks in families with kids, parents who need care, two careers, house/car/etc.

VA3API: "In the past two years I have yet to have a CW QSO with any ham that wasn't at least 50 years old. I wonder every day about the future of ham radio because I don't see younger hams getting into this."

You may not see them, but they are there. Maybe not in the same numbers as 20-30-40 years ago, but they are there. Of course we can always use more of them!

VA3API: "They are all about the internet and can't understand why we do what we do when we have the Internet."

That's because they're out to communicate as the primary goal, and the method is secondary. Hams are about radio as the primary goal. "Radio for its own sake".

This isn't a new thing. 40 years ago, when I was a brand-new 13 year old ham, most people could not understand what we hams did, because we had the telephone.

VA3API:"Many would be new hams run from this hobby because of the code requirements. In Canada it was 10 wpm they never had a 5 wpm that I am aware. So I am devided on this code issue."

It's a nonissue now. Code testing in Canada has been optional for some time now - nobody has to take a code test to get a license. In the USA, we've had nocodetest licenses for 16 years, and no code test for any class since early this year.

VA3API: "If they put in high code requirements for licensing then in this day and age many thinking about getting into ham radio might say why bother."

Not going to happen. Not as a license requirement, anyway. Old subject.

Oddly enough, though, I have observed that it is frequently the youngest hams who choose code the most. Not because they have to, but because they want to. Because it's different.

VA3API: "But then if there is no code ham radio could become like CB polluted. With all this wireless internet and cell phone technology I wonder if we are going to loose our frequencies as the number of hams die off."

We are far less likely to lose our frequencies if we *use* them.

One more factor:

I don't know about Canada, but here in the states the median age has been steadily climbing for a couple of decades now. People are living longer, having fewer kids, and having them later in life. They're getting married for the first time later in life, and more aren't getting married at all. Most of all, they are staying active longer.

From 1990 to 2000, the median age (the age where half of the people are older and half are younger) of people recorded in the US Census rose almost 5 years. The 2000 figure was 39 years and some months.

IOW, 50 isn't as old as it used to be.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: CW Music  
by N1LO on October 31, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
sending / N equals "shave and a haircut....two bits!"

(banjo player)
 
RE: CW Music  
by WA2JJH on October 31, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Face the music. EVERY HF RIG NEW/OLD HAS A CW MODE.
Wanna build a cheap rig...It will be CW (analogue or SDR)
CW like rock-n-roll will Never die!

99.67% of the world does not know CW. CW IS PWR efficient, nifty, and music to my ears.

Rust never sleeps either.
 
RE: CW Music  
by RADIO123US on October 31, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
K1CJS said " agree with him. Morse code knowledge may make you a more rounded ham, it won't make you a better one. It isn't necessary to know and use morse to be an excellent operator. "

...but it does say ALOT about a person's CHARACTER when they decide to wait YEARS to AVOID something that is challenging, instead of facing the challenge and overcoming it....a folks who face the challenges, and who are NOT afraid of difficulty are the type of folks we NEED more of in ham radio....the folks who want a free ride are what will kill us....knowledge of morse code will NOT make you a better ham, but it says ALOT about the type of ham you are....
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by WA4KCN on October 31, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
K1CJS "Morse code knowledge may make you a more rounded ham, it won't make you a better one. It isn't necessary to know and use morse to be an excellent operator."

That depends on how you define excellence. Not knowing Morse certainly does not mean you are necessarily a bad operator. Yet even in the world of ham radio today I don't believe a ham radio operator should be described as an excellent operator without ability in Morse. The term excellence points to the highest degrees of merit.

I agree ability in Morse cannot force or make one become a "better" ham operator however it does give one the opportunity to do so.

73 Russ
WA4KCN

 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by N6HPX on October 31, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I agree with the gent from Canada as its often hard to find the time really to do certain things, we are all so wrapped up in parts of our daily lives like our Ham Hobbies, I go out buy a new book and it sits in the shack for weeks before I open it to read it. Not that I dont want to read it, it just seems like the moment I pick it up, I suddenly have to go do something else.
For years I been wanting to attend a local ham meeting at PARA which is only 1 hour away by car, but as usuall something of family comes up, or its the usual too far away to get there.
Now for out here on the ship I have watch duties, and it takes up 8 to 10 hours of my day. I want to operate my radio but hard to do when its rain outside or were in certain ports where its better to just go ashore..in other words it gets put aside...as many of you know you need a local permit to operate in other countries, and many of the places I go is usually Japan,Korea and Okinawa. But the only spot that I can operate is Guam. The hard part is lugging the extra stuff around. Mainly Ham gear. It costs extra on bags now days and a radio,ps,antenna and the extras can add up. I barely can get by with my Shortwave.
But when I am in the other countries I usually try to attend the local hams meetings so I can find out the new stuff there and maybe evenm get a permit. Singapore was out since I have to be a citizen there.
Still plan to carry some portable rigs.

CW is more than a language it fun to learn and worth the effort to use. And was a neccessity for those who had to pass it to get the ticket.
 
RE: CW Music  
by N2EY on November 1, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
WA2JJH writes:

"EVERY HF RIG NEW/OLD HAS A CW MODE."

Unfortunately, that's not true.

Heathkit made the 'single band' smsteur HF transceivers back in the 1960s (HW-12, HW-22, HW-32, and their A versions). Those rigs did not have a CW mode, and didn't even cover the lower parts of the bands (75, 40 and 20, respectively).

SBE made the multiband hybrid SBE-33 and SBE-34 in the same time frame - and they didn't have a CW mode either.

WA2JJH: "Wanna build a cheap rig...It will be CW (analogue or SDR)"

Yep - and not just inexpensive, but simple, and made from available parts.

Here's an example of a receiver I built back in the 1970s for a total expenditure of less than $10:

http://www.qsl.net/k5bcq/Jim/jiminfo.doc
http://www.qsl.net/k5bcq/Jim/SilverRX1.jpg
http://www.qsl.net/k5bcq/Jim/SilverRX2.jpg
http://www.qsl.net/k5bcq/Jim/SilverRX3.jpg
http://www.qsl.net/k5bcq/Jim/SilverRX4.jpg
http://www.qsl.net/k5bcq/Jim/SilverRX5.jpg
http://www.qsl.net/k5bcq/Jim/SilverRX6.jpg

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: CW Music  
by WA2JJH on November 1, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
AW SHUCKS N2EY...you only found 2 voice only rigs!!!!!
 
RE: CW Music  
by WA2JJH on November 1, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I think they point made is that many of us that took the hard road....WORKED HARDER!

We would build, borrow, or be given our elmers garbage. Yet we got on the air by any means we could.

The old Novice ticket was CW and only good for 2 years.

Learn, advance, and grow! Not just buy a shack in a box.

I welcome all newbies. However, most that took the hard road......HAVE BRAGGIN RIGHTS!!!!!!!
 
RE: CW Music  
by N2EY on November 1, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
WA2JJH writes: "AW SHUCKS N2EY...you only found 2 voice only rigs!!!!!"

Actually 8:

HW-12
HW-12A
HW-22
HW-22A
HW-32
HW-32A
SBE-33
SBE-34

There was also the Lafayette HA-410, which I think was AM-only.

I think the early Swan rigs were SSB only, too.

But those exceptions just prove your point: One has to look long and hard to find an amateur HF rig that can't do CW. And oddly enough, they're all from decades ago!

But there are plenty of CW-only amateur HF rigs around, including rigs being made today.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by K1CJS on November 1, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Russ, WA4KCN said:

"That depends on how you define excellence. Not knowing Morse certainly does not mean you are necessarily a bad operator. Yet even in the world of ham radio today I don't believe a ham radio operator should be described as an excellent operator without ability in Morse. The term excellence points to the highest degrees of merit.

I agree ability in Morse cannot force or make one become a "better" ham operator however it does give one the opportunity to do so."

Russ, I was just pointing out that nowadays HOW you operate is the main thing considered that shows your excellence as a ham radio operator. Please--I'm really not out to start a pissing match, but morse is just one of the items that contribute to the whole, just as technical knowledge is.

There are excellent operators out there that don't know or use morse, just as there are excellent operators that barely know basic electronic theory. There are also excellent operators that use only digital modes, and also those that don't venture into the HF bands at all.

It has been said that getting the license is just the start--you keep learning as you go on. The excellent ham operator admits they don't know everything and strives to learn more and more. On the other side, a complacent ham operator who believes they know it all can't be an excellent operator simply because they think they know everything, and as a result stops trying to improve themselves and falls into a rut.

73, Russ, and take care. Catch you on the bands someday.
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by RADIO123US on November 1, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
K1CJS said "On the other side, a complacent ham operator who believes they know it all can't be an excellent operator simply because they think they know everything, and as a result stops trying to improve themselves and falls into a rut. "

Chris, what a great description of someone that waited for years to AVOID taking an exam, and then shows up in every internet discussion group to complain and make derogatory comments about those that actually had the gumption to take the exam he avoided....I agree 100 percent with you...that person CAN'T be an excellent operator.....
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by WA4KCN on November 1, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
K1CJS "Russ, I was just pointing out that nowadays HOW you operate is the main thing considered that shows your excellence as a ham radio operator."
______

I read your comments and understand your thinking. It is my opinion however an excellent ham radio operator would have some ability in Morse. For example, a baseball player whose batting average was .400 but had no ability at all to field or throw a ball could not be described as an excellent baseball player. He certainly could be described as a good hitter but to be regarded as an excellent player he would necessarily have to have some skill at both hitting and fielding excelling at perhaps one or the other. There are many a good operators both new and old enjoying one facet or another of ham radio. In my book excellence as a ham radio operator requires Morse skill.

73 Russ
WA4KCN
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by NG9Z on November 1, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I just recently got back to ham radio and figured I'd try CW, although it wasn't a mode that I used 20 years ago. I hesitantly responded to a CQ from Bill, WA1RVM. He was great, slowing his code speed to match mine, and we had a nice QSO. He told me about the FISTS CW club, where CW 'newbees' can schedule QSOs with members to increase code speed. I just joined!

Special thanks to WA1RVM for making me feel comfortable, and encouraging me to continue my CW training!

Bernie
NG9Z
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by K1CJS on November 1, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Fair enough, Russ. Take care.
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by WB7AVF on November 1, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Interesting, indeed. I for one, am both a musician and a CW operator. For whatever that's worth. It's always nice to wORK
new ops on CW. The most maddening aspects of the "new praxis" include:

? instead of eight dits for an error
Any number of dits sent for an error

The tempo fluctuation so common now, which does NOT improve copy.

The sloppy use of prosigns, or the lack thereof.

The use of R and then PSE RPT ALL or to that effect.
I am a CW codger of 46 years of age, licensed since 1975.
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by WA2JJH on November 1, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
N2EY...I BOW MY HEAD TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE OLDIES.

TRY WWW.MINICIRUITS.COM. They make DC-3ghz amps good for
pre=amps to audio out. 4 non smt parts are needed.

They sell 500khz-2ghz l.o.'s as well as analogue and digital quad detectors.

These multioctive gems sell for a few bux.

They sell multi-octive filter sets and everything else to build rigs.

A 2-25mhz VCO and A 100mw out amp can be had for under 10 bux. Use a 2n3866 for 1W out.

Liked your photo essay of CW rigs.
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by N6HPX on November 1, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
As for many of us who had to pass it well we had very little choice at the time it was either pass the test get on the air or just sit around and watch others have all the fun in life. If thats Braggen tights then so be it. But at least we didnt waste alot of years for nothing.
The code is a good and easy language in its self. Its one I feel at times is more universal amongst those nations who dont require english to be taught in schools. Unlike places like Japan,Philipiines and the United States. It was in some sense much more easier than foreign languages. I heard some where that Mandarin is more universal than english but never had it taught in my schools.
Its a great mode and was easy to learn and pass evevn at 5 wpm.
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by WA2JJH on November 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
<<<<< on November 1, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
K1CJS said "On the other side, a complacent ham operator who believes they know it all can't be an excellent operator simply because they think they know everything, and as a result stops trying to improve themselves and falls into a rut. "

Chris, what a great description of someone that waited for years to AVOID taking an exam, and then shows up in every internet discussion group to complain and make derogatory comments about those that actually had the gumption to take the exam he avoided....I agree 100 percent with you...that person CAN'T be an excellent operator..... >>>>>>>>

RADIO123 MAKES A BIGGER POINT CHRIS. I WENT BACK AND GOT A MASTERS IN BIO-MED ENGINEERING. I WAS THE ONLY AMERICAN!!!!!


THE REST WERE OPEC/OIL/EXTORTION/TERRORIST WANNA-BE'S!!!! THE SAME DUDES THAT HAD FRIENDS THAT CREATED 9/11. SORRY JUST LOST TOO MANY FINE MEN IN IRAQASTAN OR WHAT THE F-STAN!!!

SLACKERS WILL BE AMERICAS DOWNFALL!!! YEAH, I SOUND LIKE VITO...HE IS RIGHT!!!


 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by K3MP on November 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Can't be said any more truer...CW is like music...it really does not take long to learn if you have any music talent at all. I just started doing CW mobile and that is really neat. Just going down the road minding my own business with the bencher paddles right at the end of my fingertips...this has been a real rewarding experience. Remember safety first and no one even knows you are talking on the radio. I am glad that you went to CW after starting out as a no code tech..congratulations and enjoy your new language...you will find it very rewarding.. everyone in cw speaks the same language...
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by K1CJS on November 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Yes Mike, I agree--slackers will be the downfall of America, both slackers and those who want immediate gratification. There are a few things that confuse me about your post, however, and in a way it ties in with this thread.

I find it interesting that your profile doesn't have much useful information in it, yet you stress your 'alphabet soup' in the 'name' section. I share your desire to have an enjoyable time, but there are some areas where you should be serious. The inclusion of those degrees in an obviously 'off the wall' profile suggests you don't take them seriously--a sad state of affairs if you value them as much as you seem to. It could be suggested that your flippant attitude as expressed in your profile could be considered a slackers attitude--I hope it isn't.

I also find it interesting that you put any credence in the words of a CB operator whose only purpose on this site is to cause trouble with half truths and lies. Anyone who won't identify with their attitude and remarks is also a slacker, since they refuse to stand behind those attitudes and remarks. People like that take facts, twist them to fit their own agenda and then hide when called to account. I refuse to pay any attention to them--it just feeds their egos and adds to the general downward spiral that we're trying to avoid.

It may be that we're looking too hard to see the faults of others without looking to see our own, and in doing so we're ignoring the most important person to set on the right track--ourselves.

Now, Mike, sit back and watch that unidentified genius come back with his innuendoes, lies and other baloney. The point you think he's making may be valid if it wasn't for those half truths and lies.
 
CW: A Tool in the Ham's Toolbo  
by N2EY on November 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I look at it this way:

CW skill is like a tool in the ham's toolbox. So are lots of other things, like 'phone operating skills, technical knowledge, soldering skill, etc. All tools that we hams can use.

Of course simply having a tool, or lots of them, does not mean the person who has them is a good craftsman. We've all seen people with the best tools who can't seem to do anything right. And we've seen people who can do amazing things with a very limited tool kit.

And no one tool can do every job.

OTOH, the person without a tool cannot do certain things well, and in some cases can't do those things at all. But with the right tool, a difficult task is often made easy.

Why would anyone not want a useful tool?

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by RADIO123US on November 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
K1CJS said "I also find it interesting that you put any credence in the words of a CB operator whose only purpose on this site is to cause trouble with half truths and lies"

Truth ??? OK Chris, lets explore the TRUTH

RE: CB Radio?
by K1CJS on September 10, 2007 I have a unit in the shack and in the car, although I only use them if needed. The one in the car is a little emergency unit, cig. lighter plug and mag mount antenna. It serves well enough to get me the info I need.

So you ARE the CBer !!! Wow that's something you accuse me of....

Checking your license you upgraded AFTER the test was removed....you've been licensed for years before that...so that's the TRUTH....

and you make derogatory comments about those of us that did have the gumption to take the test....so that's the TRUTH

So what part of the TRUTH did I miss ???

Seems to me that YOU have some explaining to do...!!!






 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by RADIO123US on November 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
K1CJS/Chris, you seem to think you have to defend the anti-code view at all costs...let me tell you a secret...IT'S OVER !! The lazy anti-code crowd won...you don't have to continue to defend it your views...I'll make you a deal...you stay out of the pro_CW threads, and I'll stop posting the TRUTH about you....
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by K1CJS on November 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I feel I must make an exception to my policy, so I'll answer this troublemaker--Radio123:

Look Mr Nobody, go back to your CB--I will post when and where I want. Whats the matter, upset because you can't prove out your lies--and nobody will listen to you? Or did you go back and see I am NOT dead set against morse and never have been?

I'll make you an alternate deal--stop posting your taunts and false accusations to and about me and I'll leave you alone as well.

Please excuse me, everyone, for having to answer this invisible troublemaker on this site and thread since there is no other way to contact him, and thanks to everyone who put up with this irritating exchange. I apologise for both myself--and whoever this other person is.

Chris J Smith, K1CJS
chrisjsmith@netzero.net
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by RADIO123US on November 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
K1CJS said "Look Mr Nobody, go back to your CB--I will post when and where I want. Whats the matter, upset because you can't prove out your lies--and nobody will listen to you? Or did you go back and see I am NOT dead set against morse and never have been? "

Wow, I'm not the one that seems upset here..I'm just speaking the TRUTH..and I'm not the one with at least two CB's (remember the one in YOUR shack and the one in YOUR car???)....the FACT IS...most folks here KNOW what you stand for and what you do...your post above just PROVES it...
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by N3OX on November 2, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Why would anyone not want a useful tool?"

I think that truly useful tools will always eventually be recognized as useful by anyone who is even remotely aware of their existence.

I think that you can turn someone off to learning a useful tool if you push it on them too hard.

-----------------

And speaking of tools, WA2JJH rants:

"THE REST WERE OPEC/OIL/EXTORTION/TERRORIST WANNA-BE'S!!!! THE SAME DUDES THAT HAD FRIENDS THAT CREATED 9/11. SORRY JUST LOST TOO MANY FINE MEN IN IRAQASTAN OR WHAT THE F-STAN!!! "

What, exactly, happened to the ham mandate for fostering international good will, there, JJH?

You talk like that on CW with an EP, YI, or YA station?

The world needs some way to keep the reins on the spluttering, frothing xenophobes. Maybe a touch of humanity from a guy trying to live a normal family life in What-the-fuck-stan conveyed over a nice CW contact could cool you off a little bit.


73
Dan









 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by WL7BPY on November 3, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Very good article.
The points you make are well taken.
I was involved in a CW qso and the gent on the
other end made a statement I think is true :
" You meet the nices people doing CW. "
Hope all the CW ops or others help keep
CW going and involved in HAM radio for a long long time.
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by K1CJS on November 3, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Yes, I'm the one with CBs--and your the one with the cutesy 'handle' that you hide behind. Wow, talk about things going right over someones head.....
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by KG6WLS on November 3, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
<<opens door and looks in>>

"Yep, they're still at it!"

<<closes door and goes back to the radio>>
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by WA2JJH on November 3, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
SRI FER RANT. CW ROCKS! ENJOY PAYING $5.00/GALLON THIS SUMMER. ;0
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by N6HPX on November 4, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
well i think everyone is enjoying the round table discussion no different than any where else...cw is fun and worth learning..even if others dont agree..give it a try..you might be surprised..
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by WL7BPY on November 4, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
How did this article go from CW, ops and ect to
CB(ers) and such ?
As long as I don't hear them on the HAM bands
( which I often do ) I don't have a problem
with them. Can we stay with the original post ?
 
RE: CW Music  
by K4GLM on November 4, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Vito,
Re; The United States Constitution, yes. Our form of government is better than anything an ordinary person could have dreamed up. I, for one, believe it to be inspired. And Ron Paul looks like the real thing to me...
Now Vito, can you tell us stories about the founding fathers? I realize, that you were but a child at the time, but surely you remember a little bit?
Shannon Boal K4GLM
 
RE: CW Music  
by K1CJS on November 4, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Now that one is a good one!
 
RE: The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fun  
by N6HPX on November 5, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I agree with you on the topic here as we need to stay on topic as this draws people away from our world. And again Morse is a fun mode to learn,use and was fun for me even in the tests.
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by W8QW on November 6, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
What a great article. Short, to the point and very well written. I too enjoy cw and have found that I must "practice" everday. I'm not always the best fist on the air, but I try hard always. Again, great article.
 
Ten Ways To Promote CW  
by N2EY on November 10, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
1) Use Morse Code on the air. For ragchewing, DXing, contesting, traffic handling, QRP, QRO, QRS, QRQ, whatever floats yer boat. If your favorite band is crowded, try another and/or get a sharper filter. If
you contest, even a little, send in your logs, photos, soapbox comments, etc. Our presence on the air is essential.

2) Work on your Morse Code skills. Got a Code Proficency certificate?

But not just speed alone. Can you send and receive a message in standard form? Can you do it faster than someone on 'phone? Can you do both "head copy" and write it down? How about copying on a mill? Ragchewing? Contesting? Being able to have a QSO at slow as well as fast speeds?

3) Find a local club that does Field Day and go out with them. Particularly if they have little or no Morse Code activity on FD now. Help with their Morse Code efforts however you can - operating, logging, setting up, tearing down, etc. FD is one way to actively demonstrate 21st Century Morse Code *use*. Talking to people about Morse isn't nearly so effective as showing them.

4) Set up a Morse Code demo at a local hamfest/club meeting/air show/town fair/middle school etc. Not as some sort of nostalgia thing but as a demonstration that Morse Code is alive and in use today.

5) Conduct training classes - on the air, in person, over the 'net, whatever. Help anybody who wants to learn. Could be as simple as giving them some code tapes or CDs, or as involved as a formal course at a
local community center.

6) Elmer anybody who wants help - even if they're not interested in Morse Code at all. Your help and example may inspire them.

7) Write articles for QST/CQ/Worldradio/K9YA Telegraph/Electric Radio/your local hamclub newsletter etc. Not about the code *test* nor about Morse Code history, the past, etc., but about how to use Morse
Code *today*. For example, how about an article on what rigs are best for Morse Code use, and why? Or about the differences between a bug, single-lever keyer, iambic A and iambic B? Your FD experiences with
Morse Code? (QST, June, 1994) Yes, you may be turned down by the first mag you submit it to - but keep submitting.

8) Get involved in NTS, QMN, ARES, whatever, and use Morse Code there. The main reason so much emergency/public service stuff is done on voice
is because they don't have the people - skilled operators - to use any other mode.

9) Join FISTS & SKCC and any other group that supports Morse. Give out numbers to those who ask for them even if you're not a contester/award collector.

10) Forget about "the test". It is long gone and FCC won't bring it back. You may say they made a bad decision, but that's nothing new, just look at BPL or their rulings on the sale of broadcast radio stations.
FCC won't preserve our standards and values - we have to do it.

And our attitude is a key part of that (pun intended). If we're seen as a bunch of old grumpy gus types, not many will want to join us. But if we present ourselves as a fun-loving, welcoming, young-at-heart-and-mind,
helpful group with useful skills, people will want to join us.

IMHO

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: Ten Ways To Promote CW  
by NI0C on November 12, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
That was a great post, Jim!

73 de Chuck NI0C
 
RE: Ten Ways To Promote CW  
by N2EY on November 13, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
NI0C writes:

"That was a great post, Jim!"

Thanks Chuck!

Please feel free to repost that list as well as doing any/all of the things on it.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
The New Crop of CW Operators and Operating Fundame  
by W5EN on November 14, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Great post OM! Let me also point out that if DX is what a new ham is seeking, CW can be a good choice for a modest station. I have well over 200 countries confirmed and my only antenna's have been a used 14AVQ and now a Hustler 6BTV. Yes I have an amp, but again either a modest AL 811H or GLA 1000. Most of my DX has been on CW and I do not fear any pileup on that mode.

73 de W5EN Steve
 
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