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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?

from Mike Whatley, WA4D on December 20, 2007
View comments about this article!

Is Ham Radio "Green" Enough?

Amplifier use and the "greening" of Amateur Radio

An RF Anachronism

If there's one issue that is constantly before us it is the green energy movement. Nuclear power is now being reconsidered by former foes, Bio fuels, Solar, Geo thermal alternatives are being touted as never before. Sun, AMD, Microsoft and Intel are part of the "Eco Forum". The name reveals their mission. Dell/HP/Google and MS are actively working to reduce power consumption in their massive data centers. "Green" planning and implementation is now mainstream in IT, the auto industry, construction, transportation and government.

In Ham radio The QRPers were (arguably) the first "Green" hams. They advocate (with rightful pride) that low power can "work the world." The ARRL has always promoted the dictum of using the minimum power necessary to communicate. And more than a few hams have creatively employed "green" energy devices to power their radios.

The question is: What role (if any) should amateur radio play in the global energy challenge? Is the hobby obligated to contribute to the solution by using technology in an energy efficient manner?

I believe most hams would say yes. That we should use "green" operational practices and equipment configurations. The ARRL has long history of promoting "Green" practices and energy use and deserves much credit in this regard. Yet more can be done.

So where to start? With the low hanging fruit, of course! I suggest to you that a radical reduction in the use of RF Power amplifiers by hams is the first place to begin. (A 2000 to 3000+ volt power supply with its attendant electrical requirements and heat generation is ludicrous for amateur radio communications.)

Some ideas for consideration: (that will undoubtedly find enthusiastic opposition, yet one hopes the responses will address the issue.)

Government has long used the "sin" tax to reduce consumption. Tobacco and alcohol are heavily taxed. Conversely energy efficient devices are granted federal tax credits to promote “green” use. In order to reduce amplifier use, Ameritron, Alpha, Tokyo, and others should have a stiff "Green" fee placed on their amplifier products. (With these levies going to "Green" ham radio activities and education).

The ARRL should issue a Green Manifesto and call for a moratorium on ALL amplifier use by league members and disallow their use in any league sponsored event. Further, QST magazine should drop all ads for amplifier products.

Those hams who use big amps on the air should be socially "shunned" (or shamed?)! Smokers are persona non grata in many places, to liter is unlawful, SUV's are everyone's example of excess, some insurance companies penalize "smokers" and the "obese' through higher premiums. Should not ham radio use analogous tactics to become "greener"?

Ok, ok...relax they're just words. And the proposals above have zero chance of adoption. Hams hate change. Still, the ideas are worth discussion.

Now I confess...one of the great highs in low band Amateur Radio is/was hearing the "CLANG" of the amp relay kick in (well the old amps anyway) and seeing all meters swing to the right as your rig pours RF maximus into the ether...and then to hear your report as "Wow, you're 40 over!" But in 2008 such operational behavior seems...so analog. So yesterday. "Brute Force" communication is passé.

The Public Safety/ARES types are legitimate users of heavy amps. But contesters, DXers and the 160/75/40 and 20 mtr, "RF bullies" can no longer ignore their inefficient (and some would say irresponsible) use of power. It's time to move on. One-hundred watts or less on any hf band is enough for ham communications.

With amateur radio topology now including multiple modes and paths from end to end, the rationale for high power is wobbly at best. The sun is setting on big iron. And that is as it should be.

Mike, WA4D

WA4D.Net

Disclosure: WA4D owns a Toyota 4 Runner SUV, is a not yet obese ARRL member, a former smoker and owns no RF device capable of emitting over 100 watts.

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by ARRLBOOSTER on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Hams are a small minority of the general population. Their air time is limited. This would have no benefit and the cost of enjoyment for this small energy footprint hobby is too great. Enjoy the time you have for radio, my friends. We don't know how long our hobby has to exist.

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N4DSP on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Mike,
would you be from that wacky state of California? The state that promotes all these goofy ideas?

john
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by LNXAUTHOR on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
low power is not just a good idea - it's the law!

:-)

(queuing up to read "You can pry my amp relay from my cold, dead fingers...")

seriously though, the article reads more like a troll than a collection of sound ideas for reducing energy usage while enjoying ham radio... i was looking for:

- a good explanation of dB vis-a-vis ERP
- designing a solar charge controller
- why low power can work
- how a better antenna can replace high-power comms
- mode comparison to effect power savings (CW or PSK31?)

and so...

but taxing Kalifornia Kilowatters seems a bit extreme...
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by VK4DGG on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Give me a break!!!! I don't use a linear except for a little 60 watt THP50. I am just getting tired of hearing all these lame ideas on what we should do about the terrible destruction of the enviroment and the energy shortage. I have yet to see any scientific evidence to support any notion that humans are causing global warming except that which is anecdotal at best. The global warming hucksters are ignoring what is happening with the sun, the earth's orbital variation, and the axis tilt cycle, the solar sunspot minimum.Remeber, suspots are relatively cool places on the sun, no sunspots=higher solar energy output. The satellite "scientific temperature measurements" are ignored because they don't show what the enviromentalists are warning us about. The "Hockey Stick" temperature graph they always referred to showing the temperature has been rising steadily has been throughly proven to be in error,(NASA has admitted this fact),The polar ice has decreased by 1%....1%..the doom sayers have already buried us with climate disasters. Congress just passed a bill dictating the use of florescent bulbs. Can anyone calculate how much mercury will be put into landfills when everyone switches over? It will accumulate rapidly to hundreds of tons. This is one of the most toxic materials known to man, it is highly persistent in the enviroment but congress doesn't care about that.I believe that this is nothing more than a coordinated action taken to facilitate the imposing of a world government levying taxes on the wealthy nations to subsidize the poor nations, most of whom are poor only because of very corrupt governments. Go to any large to medium sized city at night. Look at the buildings lit up grandly for no other reason than making them pleasing to look at, how many billions of watts in this and other countries are wasted for this purpose? People need to start thinking analytically., there is no energy shortage except that which is caused by production problems mostly created by enviromentalists not allowing new refineries or drilling in places where oil is known to exist. There hasn't been a new electrical generating plant built in California in more than 20 years, but the state population has doubled during this same time. Two new huge oilfield discoveries were just reported within the last 6 months, one of them with more oil than Alaska. We are being suckered people, I am not so stupid as to believe that man has no impact on the enviroment, but ask yourself this, why are almost all the solutions in line with the agenda of many left wing organizations. I am not saying these things from a political viewpoint, this is not about politics, it is about power. If you can frighten people enough they will go along with many things detrimental to their freedoms, their happiness and the economical wellbeing because they have been told if the don't we will destroy our world..Now, I would like to apologize to anyone I have offended, but I needed to rant, but I DO belive these things are true.

73's
Mark
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KB2SHP on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I can't wait to read LNXAUTHOR's proposed version of this article. I agree it would be more useful and less of a troll.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N9LYA on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I must be a NON GREEEEEEEN HAM BIG TIME...

I Have a Multi ported Multi BBS packet Station.
Packet is an Intermittant mode... BUT...

Consisting of
5 Computers
1 HP Laser Jet Printer
5 HF Rigs all set at 100 Watts Out
3 VHF Rigs 65 Watts each Out
2 UHF Rigs at 100 Watts each out
6 High Power cooling fans.. 3 watts Draw on AC each
5 Monitors Flat Panel 100 Watts draw on AC each
Powering all this is
9 Samlex 23 AMP Power Supplies
2 Samlex 30 Amp Power Supplies
1 APC 2200 XLTNET BACKUPS
Room lighting and year round AC windows unit (9000 BTU) to keep all this equipment cool.
That runs 365/24/7


 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AC5E on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Green," in the sense of cleaning up the mess humans have made, is a very good idea. We need to fish our garbage out of the ocean, fill in the mines and other "diggings" our ancestors left, and generally make our planet as pristine as possible. After all, Earth is the only planet we have, so we better take care of her.

On the other hand, "Green" has become a buzz term for essentially forcing everyone into the same cookie cutter mold. "No one needs more than 80 square feet of living space, more than 1200 lumens of lighting, more than two liters of potable water a day," and the list goes on and on and on. And of course, no ham needs more than a low power station!

The "Greens" primary sales pitch is "man made global warming." But the scientists who were at the forefront of the "global warming" movement are rapidly becoming skeptics. The movement has lost more than three hundred adherents in this month alone, as more scientists realize the computer projections backing global warming just do not fit the observations.

No, the sea is not rising a millimeter a day, as some computer simulations would have us believe. In fact, if you take the data as a whole, the OBSERVATIONS indicate sea level is either stable, or falling.

Air temperatures are far from record levels - and the data from properly maintained reporting stations would lead us to believe our Earth is cooling, not warming.

All this, and a lot more, is readily available to anyone who wishes to be informed. I would suggest interested parties take a tour of www.junkscience.com and especially the junk science primer at the top of the page. Not just for climate information - most of the junk the media presents as science amounts to junk science.

Further information on global temperatures is available in many places, but try www.icecap.us and www.climatepolice.com for a reasonably balanced presentation. And just as a point of interest I see the global temperature is 0.75 degrees below average this morning.

73 Pete Allen AC5E

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W1NK on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
So now, we have to worry about the "Carbon Footprint" of our amps? Puhleeeese....

Enviro-friendly, green-hams have a new mantra: "When amplifiers are outlawed, only outlaws will have amplifiers"

(Now if you'll excuse me I have to go hoard soon-to-be extinct 100W incandescent light bulbs and do my part to keep our landfills mercury-free!)

W1NK
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1CJS on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
This might be a good idea for those hams that regularly go to extremes, but for a regular, efficiently run ham station--even for one with linear amplifiers used occasionally, this idea carries 'green' to extremes.

Of course, if you leave your radios on from dawn to dusk, as some undoubtedly do, you could consider a little energy saving, but for the everyday useage most of us are accustomed to--well, I have to agree this article is trolling for arguments.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by NA4IT on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
OK I'll say it...

LIFE'S TOO SHORT FOR QRP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W8EJO on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
The "Green Movement" is the latest roosting place of the vultures in the socialist movement, nothing more, and nothing less. Its about forcing us (at the point of a gun if necessary) to comply with their agenda of confiscating our money and transferring it to whomever they deem worthy of having it .This is what socialists do. If you doubt me, read the KYOTO PROTOCOL: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol] or the results of the recently concluded Bali meetings (yes Bali) of the United Nations Climate Change Conference [http://unfccc.int/meetings/cop_13/items/4049.php].

They ignore the science and plow on with their devious agenda. [http://www.noe21.org/dvd2/Global%20Warming%20FAQ%20-%A0%20temperature.htm] and [http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=164002]

The key to fixing the energy problem is increasing the REAL energy supply and stop tipping at windmills. We can do this by encouraging oil exploration and drilling, refinery licensing and the licensing and building of nuclear power plants. This needs to be done now or you will see the decline of our great nation as energy prices make growth and prosperity (and your grandchildren’s bright future) a faded memory.

The best thing that hams can do is get educated on this farce, crank up their amps, get on the air and become beacons of truth on the airwaves.

Terry
W8EJO
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KG4RUL on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
There is NO SUCH THING as 'Global Warming' except in the minds of fools like Al Gore! EVERY climatological and ecological event pointed out as being a part of 'Global Warming' has historical precedent from BEFORE the industrial age.

Air pollution was in the San Fernando Valley in the Los Angeles area when the Padres first came to settle the area. No factories or cars then. The receding of the ice caps being ballyhooed by the 'gloom and doom' folks has occurred many times before. The list goes on and on.

Yes, we have done our part with garbage, oil spills, chemical and water pollution, etc. Let's get those things taken care of first. OR are our politicians so beholden to their cash cows that the though of taking action has them quaking in their boots?

Also, and more significant, let's not do incredibly STUPID things like flying thousands of people to a place like Bali for a conference on saving the planet. just what kind of a 'carbon footprint' did that little shindig create??

Global Warming is a load of BS people! Shutting down our equipment is not going to save the world.

Rant - QRT
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KB1OCC on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Non-green and proud of it!

I'll sit out in my car and operate my radio while I'm idling my engine to keep the battery charged and the heat on. The heat on you say? Yes, that is because where I live we're currently experiencing our 4th plowable storm in about a week!

I only wish I could be idling my Hummer H1 instead! At least I could get through the piles of snow and deal with the freezing temperatures better!

Gore = idiot. I should be careful, I'm using "his" internet...
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KT0DD on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Global warming is a myth! Al Gore created this paranoia so he could earn 1 Million for every speech he makes. We are still coming out from the last Ice age of 10,000 years ago, and our sun is getting gradually hotter. It's just another case of man trying to control something that is beyond our control. 73.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AB9PZ on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Wasn't there a guy on here a few months ago who wrote something just like this, saying that paper QSL cards weren't "green", and we should do all eQSL cards from now on?

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N9LYA on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I work in a cement plant... One start on a 1250 HP Motor uses more electricty then prbably all the hams can use in my area in a year...

Mike.. Get a life.. And stop sucking on Al Gore..

Global Warming... Yes the Earth may be getting warmer.. But its nateral.. for it to do so...


 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KZ1X on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Trying to peddle this kind of idea to hams is unwise.

In general, you'll find us to be more scientifically informed than the average citizen, politically right-leaning, socially aware, and not apt to be swayed by groupthink.

Moreover, we KNOW that the sun is the be-all and end-all of climate drivers on this little blue speck. Not us.

Don't you worry about reducing your carbon footprint. For every watt less you use, I will add two.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KC4ZGK on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I don’t have an amplifier and am not even on the air that much but as a few of the above posters have said the very very very small population in America that actually uses an amplifier would not amount up to jack squat. I might suggest those who want to be green to go ahead and knock your selves out I hope you feel better about yourselves in the process!

Ed
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N7KFD on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I would love to see just one post on this site with no negative comments......... now that would be "Green"
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W8EH on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
What are you smoking? All you greenies want to do is get 'control' and be able to tell everyone else what to do.

What caused the climate shifts after the last ice age? Caribu flatulence?

What we need is more power.

QRP can be a fun activity, but I run higher power most of the time.

If you really want to save energy, turn off your power hog computer.

 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N4DBC on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
You could re-title this article a few different ways:

Is Ham Radio 'Liberal' Enough?

Ham Radio - A 'Sacrificial Lamb' for the Religion of Environmentalism

Echolink - The Choice of 'Green' Hams

Is Ham Radio 'Atheist' Enough?

How did I come up with those titles? The primary evidence comes from W4AD's own eHam.net article. Also, click the link for WA4D.net that was provided in the article. Note some of the information posted on Mr. Whatley's own website.

While I don't know Mr. Whatley well enough to know his exact beliefs, there is circumstantial evidence to suggest that his religion is environmentalism. It would follow that his politics are of a liberal or socialist bent, which supports his religion.

Just the fact that he read the following book (as mentioned on his website) supports my theory that his religion is environmentalism, and also what he thinks about Christianity:

Christopher Hitchens: God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything

While I'm sure that there are Christians who have read this book in order to know how God is being attacked by atheists, I would guess that most people who read the book do so because the title agrees with their own beliefs. In this case, that is more evidence that 'Mother Earth' is the god of this man.

There are occasional discussions about how politics should be kept out of Amateur Radio. By suggesting that a 'sin tax' ("green tax") be applied to amateur radio amplifiers, he has covertly brought politics and religion into this eHam.net article.

Today, W4AD is calling for a sacrifice to his religion of high power amplifiers. What will he call for next?

73, Dave
N4DBC
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N2EY on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Can anyone calculate how much mercury will be put into landfills when everyone switches over? It will accumulate rapidly to hundreds of tons."

Well, let's see....

A typical compact flourescent lamp (CFL) has 5 milligrams of mercury in it. That's five-thousandths of a gram - about the amount of graphite in a dot made by a pencil.

At 5 milligrams per CFL, it would take 200 CFLs to get one gram of mercury. (5 x 200 = 1000 milligrams = 1 gram).

At 200 CFLs per milligram, it would take 200,000 CFLs to get one kilogram (2.2 pounds) of mercury (200 x 1000).

If we use metric tons (1000 kilograms = 2200 pounds), it takes 200,000,000 CFLs (200 million) to get one ton of mercury.
(200,000 x 1000). If we use short tons (2000 pounds) it only takes 180,000,000 CFLs. (180 million)

To get to "hundreds of tons" (say, 300 short tons?) it would take 54,000,000,000 CFLs (54 *billion* CFLs)

Somehow, I don't think that will happen too rapidly.
And they will wind up in landfills only if they're not recycled.

On top of all that, wherever coal is burned to make electricity, mercury is released into the atmosphere because of trace amounts found in the coal. Scrubbers do not remove it. It turns out that the mercury in a CFL is *less* than the mercury released by burning coal to power an incandescent of equivalent light output. So switching to CFLs can result in *less* mercury release into the environment.

And CFL's are just the beginning. We're already beginning to see LED's specifically designed for lighting (illumination, not indication) on the market. They're expensive now, of course, and in limited types. But that will change.

Typical LED illuminators have 50,000 hour life (compared to ~10,000 hours for CFLs and <1000 hours for incandescents), and need 1/10th the energy of an incandescent (the light of a 40 watt incandescent from a 4 watt LED).

What people really need to understand is that, properly done, energy efficiency can save you lots of money. You have to pay more up-front for the lamp, but then it more than pays you back over its life in less electricity used, fewer replacements, less heat in warm climates, etc.

Say electricity costs you 10 cents per kilowatt hour, and you have a choice between a CFL that lasts 10,000 hours and uses 14 watts, or an incandescent that lasts 1,000 hours and uses 40 watts.

Over 10,000 hours, the CFL will use 140 kilowatt hours, costing you $14 in electricity.

Over 10,000 hours, the incandescent will use 400 kilowatt hours, costing you $40 in electricity - plus you'll have to buy 9 replacement bulbs.

If you pay $5 for the CFL and fifty cents for the incandescents, the cost works out to:

Incandescent: $40 for electricity, $5 for lamps, $45 total
CFL: $14 for electricity, $5 for lamp, $19 total.

$26 saved on just one lamp - less than half the total cost. Plus the work of 9 lamp replacements is eliminated.

This is why you rarely see conventional incandescent lighting outside homes. Businesses can't afford it, either in the electrical cost nor the lamp replacement cost.

The solutions to our energy troubles are out there, if we're willing to adopt them. There isn't one magic bullet that will solve the problem - it will take a combination.

Eventually the costs will force us to do it, too.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KD5SFK on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Mike,

Congratulations on the most successful post at baiting the old-timers that I've seen on e-ham in a long time. You've done better than you would have by posting a "CW Sucks!" article.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KB9CRY on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
What will he call for next?


Make no mistake folks, these people want FULL CONTROL over your lives.

They want to take firearms out of the hands of law-abiding citizens.

They want to ban certain breeds of animals and eventually all breeds of any pet.

They want to watch you 24/7.

They want to tell you what to eat.

They you to use less energy, even though you are not the biggest user.

They want to open the borders to whomever and give them everything that you worked hard for.

Make no mistake folks. They are a real threat.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KC8YLJ on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
sounds like a political wacko from Cal to me - take it somwhere else
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AB9PZ on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
>>>>by N7KFD on December 20, 2007 I would love to see just one post on this site with no negative comments......... now that would be "Green"<<<<


This topic has GOT to be a "plant," done intentionally....kind of like ringing the bell on the Jerry Springer Show.

 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1ZF on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
HAHAHA! Pure "Dawg". Mike, you 'da man! I can remember how you used to get them all worked up on ECARS back when... I see you haven't lost your touch.

K1ZF
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K0BG on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
One answer perhaps, is to switch to solid state amps, which draw little power on standby. That will happen on its own, sooner or later. However, just like the energy bill signed by Bush (yesterday as I recall), is full of holes.

First, the mandate we get away from incandescent light bulbs is perhaps a good one, but the change over better be to LEDs. Compact Fluorescent Bulbs actually cost more over their lifetime if you take into consideration how much energy they take to make. The worse part of it all, is the fact they contain mercury. Assuming we recycled they correctly, the amount of energy savings is nearly a negative 20%. Savings indeed!

And lets not forget Ethanol! Gee whiz, are we going to pay for that one! We make ethanol from corn in this country. What few Americans realize, the savings from using ethanol from corn is a negative 1.5% (that 1.5% more energy input, than we get out). What we should be using is hemp, and other cannabis-containing grasses (Congress isn't about to repeal that law!), sugar cane, sugar beets, and other crops which can produce an energy savings of up to 85% (85% more energy out, than we put in growing it).

It is unfortunate that most green-speak supporters are like horses with blinders; they only see what's in front of them, so they act like what's behind them!

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N2EY on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
The problem is that unless a ham is on the air a lot, the use of an amplifier doesn't represent a lot of electricity use.

Say a ham has an amp that needs 3000 watts of AC to produce the legal limit 1500 W RF out, and takes 300 W when not transmitting.

Suppose the ham operates his station 1000 hours per year - that's about 2-3/4 hours per day, every single day.

Suppose the ham uses transmits 25% of the time, and receives the other 75% of the time.

Then the amplifier will use 300 watts for 750 hours per year, and 3000 watts for 250 hours per year.

(how many hams with amplifiers use them that much?)

300 x 750 = 225,000 watt-hours = 225 kilowatt hours
3000 x 250 = 750,000 watt-hours = 750 kilowatt hours

Total 975 kilowatt hours per year. At ten cents per kWH, that's $97.50 worth of electricity.

Sounds like a lot? Look at how much electricity you use in the course of a year, and decide. Consider how few changes it would take to save 975 kilowatt hours in the course of a year, too (hang up the laundry on a sunny day rather than running the electric dryer, change a few lights to CFLs, turn off stuff that's not in use, don't use the amp all the time, etc.).

I'm all for being green, but I'm also for having a clear understanding of where the energy actually goes. I have seen plenty of cases where the room lighting in a ham shack uses more electricity than the rig!

73 de Jim, N2EY

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by VK4DGG on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
The US Census Bureau estimates 114.8 hundred million households by 2010. If each household has 10 CFLs that is 1.148 billion CFLs in just the US alone. That only pertains to households, that doesn't count any other statistical information.

73's
Mark
 
eHam.net Trash Bin  
by AI2IA on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
By the careful selection of nutty "articles" eHam.net has degenerated into the status of the trash bin of the ham community.

How much further below the level of common sense, objectivity and intelligence can this site sink?

Ask yourself,"WHO BENEFITS FROM THE PUBLISHING OF THIS MORONIC TRASH?"

I said, "who." What individual gains from this garbage?

The moral of the article is this: Spend as much time as you can pursuing your personal activity in amateur radio and as little time as possible on sites like this.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K5JDB on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I love "greens" and cornbread. Sweet potatoes too. I also love ham radio. Merry Christmas. 73 Jim
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by VK4DGG on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Frost burnt collards and yellow corn bread dipped in pot liquor.

73's
Mark
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W6AAV on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Are you frickin kidding me! Keep the ploitics on Capital Hill and enjoy the HOBBY.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by G3LBS on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
When I was a kid in England it was just like it is here now in Buffalo, but it ain't any more.
I am veggie but I eat people - cannibalism is the best way to thin out the population and conserve energy.
Buffalo Gil W2/G3LBS
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W6AAV on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Are you frickin kidding me! Keep the poloitics on Capital Hill and enjoy the HOBBY.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N0IU on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
WA4D wrote, "The ARRL should issue a Green Manifesto and call for a moratorium on ALL amplifier use by league members and disallow their use in any league sponsored event. Further, QST magazine should drop all ads for amplifier products."

Unless you can figure out how to tie this into Emergency Communications using WinLink, the ARRL will never go for it since that is their #1 priority for amateur radio.

Scott N0IU
 
RE:Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W6TH on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.

You must be associated with congress, always telling us citizens what is good for us and what isn't.

We are old enough to make our own decisions, why not leave us alone and let us decide what is good for us and what isn't.

Taxing a kilowatt? Aren't we overtaxed as it is.

Live Free or Die

W6TH

.:
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N2EY on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Compact Fluorescent Bulbs actually cost more over their lifetime if you take into consideration how much energy they take to make."

If that were true, the cost of the energy to make them would have to be contained in their selling price. And it would be clear that there was no savings.

Consider a typical 14 watt CFL that replaces a 40 watt incandescent. If the CFL costs $5, and energy costs 5 cents per kWh, then the energy to make it cannot exceed 100 kWh - $5 worth of electricity. In reality, the energy to make it must be far less than 100 kWH because there's the cost of material, manufacturing, transport, etc.

If the 14 watt CFL replaces a 40 watt incandescent and lasts 10,000 hours, then the CFL will save 260 kWH over its lifetime. That's many times the energy needed to make it.

"The worse part of it all, is the fact they contain mercury."

Typically 5 milligrams.

"Assuming we recycled they correctly, the amount of energy savings is nearly a negative 20%. Savings indeed!"

The reality is far different. Do the math and see.
Note that it takes a considerable amount of energy to make an incandescent, and you will need ten of them over the life of the CFL.

Most of all, we've had flourescents for decades - mercury and all. CFLs are just the same technology in a different package, so we don't have to rewire our homes.

There *is* one thing missing from the whole CFL issue, though: Consumer information. There's not a lot of readily-available info from independent sources that tells you which CFLs are good quality and which are junk.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WA2E on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
WA4Dawg - The original Troll predating the internet and stirring the pot ever since.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AA5JG on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
These ideas don't go far enough! Remember, we are dealing with saving the world here. Al Gore would never lie to us about something. All ads from Yaesu and Icom should be banned from QST except those for the FT817 and Icom 703+. We need to make sacrifices. 100 watts is definitely overkill, we should all have to use 5 watts. Of course those who preach to us about global warming will be given an exemption.

73s John AA5JG
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AA9YA on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!

The original poster is seriously mentally disturbed.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K6CRC on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Saving energy is critical to our future and hams need to set a good example. But feeding the whole multi-billion dollar "Global Warming" industry is looney.

This kind of public scam comes around every generation, last time it was the phony TV Evangelists. Jimmy Swaggart lived well, but cannot touch the kind of money Al Gore and his minions are making. I don't think even Jimmy lived in a ten thousand square foot mansion.

Forget about going "green". Just turn off the lights you don't need on, ditch the linear if conditions are good, and ask yourself if you really need that 3 ton SUV. Solar panels pay for themselves in less than ten years in many locations. Simple stuff, common sense. Can't make any money off common sense.

But the GW fear will continue, as there is still plenty of money there for the taking from the gullible public, at least until their teaser mortgage rates reset. Hmm, teaser mortgage rates...maybe there were TWO big scams in this generation.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K6YE on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!

Mike,

I remember hearing you on 20 meters some years ago.

I have two transceivers that are both capable of 200 watts output. Above 7 MHz, I do not use an amplifier as a rule (I have an Alpha 91-B and a Kenwood TL-922A amplifiers). One can usually work most everything barefoot but there are times when QRO is warranted. It just means making an intelligent choice.

IMHO, amateur radio is about choices and that is why I still enjoy it after 45 years. Enjoy the hobby.

Semper Fi,

Tommy - K6YE
DX IS
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KC8OKG on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Hello, first of all, there may be no electricity left for us to use in our amps cause Al Gore and Nancy Pelosi used it all!!!!!

Second-if the HYPOCRITICAL LIBERAL DEMOCRATS WOULD ACTUALLY PRACTICE THE GARBAGE THEY WANT TO FORCE DOWN EVERYONE ELSES THROAT---WE WOULDNT HAVE AN ENERGY ISSUE!
Imagine how much more energy there would be if only liberal democrats would,
1. Walk to work
2. Take cold showers
3. Layer their clothes up instead of turning up the heat.
4. Stop wasting electricity by posting their socialist propaganda on the internet.
5. So on and so forth.

I have never been able to understand why people like Mr. Whatley feel as though they have to force the rest of us to conserve in a way that restricts us from doing what we love. If he feels that way, then good for him. But I will choose to continue to use my amplifiers as necessary.

I also cant understand why many Americans cant wait to get rid of everything we enjoy, including our right to use the energy WE pay for.

Before the liberal dems reading this accuse me of driving an SUV--I dont. I drive a motorcycle to work to save money---and energy. My mode of transportation is not for everyone and nor does it have to be.

I would like to see the look on the faces of the "greenies" if they were taxed and fined for owning cars-----when they could get to work on bicycles.

In fact, if Mr. Whatley would walk to work instead of driving his Toyota forerunner, he would save enough energy for all of us to use amps periodically.

I save energy when I can, I use it as I feel necessary, and Mr. Whatley can try to pry my HOT-GLOWING-BEAUTIFUL HIGH POWER-LOW EFFICIENCY TUBES FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS. hihi
Thanks for reading, Sincerely, Greg Sarris-KC8OKG
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AB7E on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!

Hey folks, this is obvious troll bait from WA4D ... from the emphatic proclamations of what everyone else should think and do to the use of in-your-face bold type. Provocation for the sake of provocation is the kind of thing lesser intelligences do when they can't get their desired share of attention for doing anything more productive. Nobody with an ounce of sincerity would put forward a serious proposal on a controversial topic in such a witlessly confrontational manner. Just ignore the guy.

Dave AB7E
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by NL7SX on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Not really.....some will have it, some won't. I'm a resident of Ecofornia and I've been ignoring the greenies for over a half century. They are noisy and nosey though, so they need to be occasionally driven into the public square, stripped, and scrutinized for hidden agendas. For those that think consuming the gas and oil found in the earth has no effect and is a free ride, they have their agenda as well. So, frugality for the poor and consumption for the rich will go on as usual. Many 'carbon units' will pass-on having never known what ham radio is. A small minority will be active amateur radio operators riding along with technology and stirring up the air waves. Long live amateur radio in ALL its forms!
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KT8K on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I do expect that the climate is changing, as things never stop changing, and am certain that the changes are not all man made, but also certain that some ... are. Since we are just another organism in this global community of symbiotic organisms, to think that we could change the climate at all (and there is plenty of evidence we have, even if you only accept the pollution of the air, the Great Lakes, the major rivers, etc., etc.) is pretty frightening.

Until the last couple of centuries there were never more than a billion humans on earth, and there is plenty of evidence to support that. It is also pretty clear that the energy input to the global system (ecology) was all solar, as sunlight provided energy to plants and fueled the food chain. In the past few millenia humans have learned how to extract coal and petroleum from the earth, which is actually long-sequestered plant matter (read "solar energy") that accumulated over hundreds of millions of years. Human numbers have been able to grow, using a lot of that stored energy, to more than 6.5 billion now, and we are increasing at a rate of more than a billion every 13 years. Also, estimates of how much more energy is left in the earth, and the rate at which we are using it, says we are going to start running out in a century or so (sooner for petroleum).

Over the past several decades many estimates have been made of the total food production capacity of the earth, too, and I haven't seen any estimate that was higher than enough to support about 7.5 billion humans. That suggests we will start to run short of food in less than 13 years. I expect we will see it affect the poorest parts of the globe first, so maybe it won't be a problem for the industrialized countries for a while, but it underlines the thought that overpopulation is a huge, lurking problem we are hardly even talking about yet.

How long can we keep this up? Whether our global-scale troubles are of our own doing or not is immaterial. If climate change is happening, we need to be planning ahead for it, and working to be ready for the possibilities. I always thought the best path is to "Expect the best, but be prepared for the worst", and I am afraid those that pooh-pooh climate change or overpopulation are not thinking very clearly, or are listening to others with strong self-interests who have no conception of or interest in the good of all.

While I think that taxing amplifiers is pretty goofy, and not something I would like (though I am a dedicated QRPer), I am seriously worried about the knee-jerk reactionary thinking that tries to blow all this "green" stuff off like it's nothing. We owe it to ourselves, our descendants, and everyone else, to be open-minded, to actively learn about and discuss what is going on, and to be thinking, working, and changing our lives in the ways we feel are best to make a better life for ourselves and everyone else in the future.

It's easy to be a crabby curmudgeon, to blow other people's ideas off quickly without thinking about them, and to be inconsiderate and even mean to others, but it's not good for the person doing that (there IS medical evidence), nor is it good for anyone else. That's my $0.02, and I hope it makes some others _think_ carefully about what they observe and are told, and what they do and how they behave.

I know this has been extremely long, but appreciate your patience with me (if you made it this far). Best rx & 73 to all de kt8k - Tim
 
IS THE SUN SETTING ON BIG IRON?  
by NL7SX on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
IS THE SUN SETTING ON BIG IRON was the title of the previous post by NL7SX. It was changed inadvertently during the preview process.
 
RE: IS THE SUN SETTING ON BIG IRON?  
by K3AN on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Wikipedia's article on "Tempest in a Teapot" should reference this thread as a shining example.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by ARRLBOOSTER on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
To all you stooges who think global warming is junk science....
Don't take Al Gore's word for it...ask President Bush or the NASA scientists. Most of the World's scientists say Global warming is caused by man and is real. Go read the Wikipedia article on this subject. Learn something.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WW5AA on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Disclosure: WW5AA, Smokes Pall-Mall's, eats real food, drinks Old Charter, says "Merry Christmas", does not believe in "One World, one People", and loves the glow of a legal limit amp. Mercy! some people need to get a life!

73, de Lindy
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by NS5M on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Green? No problem! How many of you remember the AN/GRC-9 military CW/MCW/AM rig? Now, how many of those remember all of the power options? Not many? OK - how many remember sitting on that hard, small seat and pumping away at the handles on the GN-58 generator? Now, that's green!

And yes - I "only" run 100W, use CFL's and turn off the electronics and electrical stuff when not in use. I drive a relatively efficient car (6 cyl Maxima) but commute alone (my bad). I keep the thermostat at about 68F for winter and 78F-80F for summer. I'd rather put on a sweater than turn up the heat, or get a little more nekkid than turn down the A/C. Sometimes my wife acquiesces in the latter.

I do think warming is a threat, but believe it to be one we should approach intelligently - starting with nuclear (not pronounced "nuculear") power and mass transit (OKC's kinda sucks).

I do not think Al Gore is a nut - but I do think W is. Generally, I only lean to the right when riding my bicycle or when sailing on a tack with a stiff breeze over the starboard beam.

Green ain't bad at all - consider the traffic lights.

73,
Jim NS5M
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K9OHI on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
1.6 GPF toilets, the hole in the ozone layer, R-12, rainforests, mad cow, avian flu. . . all this green hyperbole is just the latest example of limousine liberal "the sky is falling" proselytizing.

Just ignore it. . .next week the media will give us something new to catastrophize about.

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K9OHI on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I run only 50 watts.

That leaves 1,450 P.E.P credits I'd be willing to sell.

Fifty cents a watt O.B.O.



 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W2WRV on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I thought that green radio is a military radio. If we let these nuts loose then we can all look to limits on power we use,food we eat,how far we drive and to the extream how long we will be allowed to live. After all we start to use more resources when we get older (oxygen,medicine,depends etc.) without producing for the general good. 1984 is just 25 years late.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W4KVW on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
HAM RADIO is causing MUCH less problems with green house gasses than that "IDIOT" Al Gore(He invented the World Wide WEB you know?)is with his EXCESSIVE ranting & raving about Global Warming!ANYTHING to keep himself in the DARLING media's eye.I'm doing my part by NEVER running QRP as well as driving my 2007 Dodge 1500 Quad Cab with the 5.7 liter HEMI EVERY day!Some people think if a know it all scientist has a THEORY & says it's true then it MUST be true!Everyone knows you can NOT lie on TV(haha).I must go now & make some RF too WARM the airways some more.

Clayton
W4KVW
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by M0AFJ on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I think this should not have been posted on a US web site, George W will shut it down as being Un American

You guys may not have seen much in the way of WX change but even in the UK we are getting more severe storms, milder winters and change of flora and fauna, it may not be due to human influence but do you really want to wait until its to late to find out?.

Oil based fuels are a finite resource controlled by unstable governments, perhaps some investments by non-oil company influenced governments in new fuel technology will benefit us all.

Happy Christmas one and all.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N3OX on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Imagine how much more energy there would be if only liberal democrats would,
1. Walk to work"

- It's too far to walk, I ride my bike, good enough for ya?

"2. Take cold showers"

- Sorry, got me there

"3. Layer their clothes up instead of turning up the heat."

- Check. Gas is expensive!!

"4. Stop wasting electricity by posting their socialist propaganda on the internet."

Not sure the content of the internet tends to affect its power draw ... Besides, all the right wing radio hosts driving 50kW AM clear channel stations real hard with their yelling use a lot more electricity than the poor little liberal bloggers ;-)

Look, you can think it's wacko but the fact of the matter is there's a finite amount of useful energy we have access to in our current technological situation, and if we could all practice reasonable conservation maybe it wouldn't be such a hot-button partisan stupid political issue... but we seem to not be able to.

Don't think going QRP is going to save the world... but I do think we should try to cut back on our energy usage and consider the public good that conservation does, independent of our political preferences.

73,
Dan

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KE3HO on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
W4KVW - are you talking about Al Gore, the man who won the Nobel Peace Prize for his work on Global Warming? The following link shows how dedicated Mr. Gore is to his "cause". Talk about an inconvenient truth.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp

Al "do as I say, not as I do" Gore

73 - Jim
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K6CRC on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Not sure the content of the internet tends to affect its power draw ... Besides, all the right wing radio hosts driving 50kW AM clear channel stations real hard with their yelling use a lot more electricity than the poor little liberal bloggers ;-)"

Poor liberal bloggers? Have you ever seen how lavish Michael Moore or the MoveOn crowd live? How about the DailyKOS crowd? Private jets, limos to the chi-chi parties with Al Gore and the Clinton trash. The unions have some of the fanciest digs in Washington, D.C.

The days of rich GOP vs. poor Demos ended with the Kennedys.

I support neither party, and don't read angry left websites nor listen to right wing radio. Thinking independently is the only way to affect real change.

Randy
K6CRC
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KD4POJ on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Wasn't there a guy on here a few months ago who wrote something just like this, saying that paper QSL cards weren't "green", and we should do all eQSL cards from now on? "

Yes and after reading that article I took a deeper look into my use of eQSL. Granted I had been with them since 1990, had uploaded nearly 10K QSOs (with a return rate of < 10% I decided that it was wasting more energy to us the than mailing my cards to the buros or direct.

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by NS5M on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
M0AFJ:

"You guys may not have seen much in the way of WX change but even in the UK we are getting more severe storms, milder winters and change of flora and fauna, it may not be due to human influence but do you really want to wait until its to late to find out?

Oil based fuels are a finite resource controlled by unstable governments, perhaps some investments by non-oil company influenced governments in new fuel technology will benefit us all."

Wisdom from across the pond - thanks Tim, you're right on the money here. We Yanks tend to be a bit parochial/insular, especially when we're called on to look at ourselves with objective eyes. Alternate energy sources are not bad things: wind, solar and nuclear are all viable alternatives to gas- or coal-fired electrical plants. Would that we had the national commitment to pursue them beyond the curiosity or Chicken Little stages.

N3OX:
"Imagine how much more energy there would be if only liberal democrats would,
1. Walk to work"

- It's too far to walk, I ride my bike, good enough for ya?"

Sadly, we take our lives in our hands riding on city streets here - very few bike lanes and very many monster trucks.

"3. Layer their clothes up instead of turning up the heat."

- Check. Gas is expensive!!"

Yup & so is elecrtricity!

"Look, you can think it's wacko but the fact of the matter is there's a finite amount of useful energy we have access to in our current technological situation, and if we could all practice reasonable conservation maybe it wouldn't be such a hot-button partisan stupid political issue... but we seem to not be able to."

Political or economic? I think the major opponents of alternative energy sources are auto manufacturers, drilling/mining concerns and (for all their propaganda) utilities providers (gas & electric co's).

"Don't think going QRP is going to save the world... but I do think we should try to cut back on our energy usage and consider the public good that conservation does, independent of our political preferences."

We do seem to put our personal comforts well above the common good, an attitude we're gonna have to change if we don't want our grandkids paying the penalties.

73,
Jim


 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K6CRC on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"I think this should not have been posted on a US web site, George W will shut it down as being Un American"

I assume this was not serious, but there is this belief by the less educated in Europe that a US President "controls" websites and is some form of dictator who maintains a block on the thoughts of all. No thinking person, outside of Hollywood, would even consider that is possible.

Randy
K6CRC
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WW2PT on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Whenever someone (especially a politician masquerading as a scientist) says "the debate is over" in reference to any scientific theory, that is the clearest sign that they cannot be taken seriously.

http://tinyurl.com/2hmrer
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N4DBC on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I'm sure that everyone has heard the term "Islamic Extremism" to describe al-Quida and other violent Muslim groups.

I think that W4AD is a member of 'al-Gora'. What we've got to realize is that al-Gora, the environmental incrementalists, will keep demanding that the 'non-elites' keep sacrificing more and more in the name of their religion.

al-Gora doesn't fly airplanes into buildings in order to kill people, because the real power is in controlling people. al-Gora flies airplanes to exotic locations for conferences about global warming, and in doing so probably creates more greenhouse gases than a Ham with a high-power amplifier will create in 100 years.

al-Gora does qualify as a terrorist group, because they want to scare everyone into believing their religion of environmentalism through the threat of global warming, just like al-Quida is trying to scare everyone into believing in Mohamed by killing.

Extremists groups like al-Gora (and their members) should not be allowed to terrorize via eHam.net

If W4AD is allowed to proselytize for his religion on eHam.net, then that opens the forum up to proselytizing from a member of any religious group. His methods are covert, but don't think for a minute that his article is anything less than a form of 'enviro-preaching'.
****************************************************
Mr. Whatley, I will pray to God in Jesus name for you to see that 'incremental environmental extremism' is not the way to salvation. God gave man dominion over the earth, but He also commands that Christians be "good stewards over the earth". The Bible has examples of good stewardship over the earth (and other things), which I encourage you to study on your own initiative.

Basically, good stewardship comes down to common sense for most people, but an intelligent man such as yourself can still learn it if you won't close your mind to the truth.

I do thank you, Mr. Whatley, for reminding us about being good stewards over the earth. We should not allow extreme pollution or extreme depletion of our resources. However, neither should we allow environmentalism to the point of going beyond common sense. Taxing or outlawing high-power amplifiers in amateur radio for the sake of environmentalism is going beyond common sense!

73, Dave
N4DBC

PS – Merry CHRISTmas
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W8LGZ on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
VK4DDG,

I couldn't agree more!!

Jim- W8LGZ
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WR8D on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I have an alpha 76ca three holer/hypersil i bought new back in the early 80's. It's maintained and kept in perfect right off the shelf condition and is one of the center pieces of my shack. Low drive mod 1.5k out plusssss when needed!! Yeah i don't mind one bit to let them breath just a little.

It's meter lights are "green".

I bought another alpha at the turn of this century and it has a bargraph led setup and for the life of me i just can't seem to keep those green lights burning so i'm ashamed a little due to the fact that i keep those red leds on over at the end of its display.

Well they flash green anyway on it's way to those red ones hi hi.


Am i green enough??? Surely i must be, i even have an old perfectly restored heathkit "GREEN" HD-1410 that i still enjoy working cw with.

My wife has a "GREEN" jeep, my money is "GREEN"...crap my henry 5k floor console is even "GREEN" looking.

Everywhere i look there's "GREEN"...i'm not Irish though but i love to talk with them and eat their cooking...Yeah i'm GREEEEEEEEEN !

Where's me gold??? Where's me pulser so's i can crank me up a few thousands watts outa this GREEEEEEEN look'n amplifier..Good Lord i just realize my ipod looks GREEEEEEEEN....these big bass i love to catch are GREEEEEEEEEEEN.....

Wooops.....bummer......my new goldwing is silver!!!
shucks....my ranger bass monster is blue....what ever went wrong with the skeeeem of green things in my life.??? We live in the hills and sometimes folks say our teeth even look GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN .

Merry Christmas! Santas sled is red and GREEEEEEEN.

Oh no now i see GREEEEEEEEEEEEN everywhere. Crap my home is GREEEEEEEEEEEN "it really is". hi hi hi.

John WR8D
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W8LGZ on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Sorry, VK4DGG.

Jim
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WA9AFM on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Go Green! Buy Heathkit!
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K6ZSR on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Reported by the Drudge Report on December 20, 2007


U.S. Senate Report: Over 400 Prominent Scientists Disputed Man-Made Global Warming Claims in 2007

Senate Report Debunks "Consensus"
Complete U.S. Senate Report Now Available: (LINK)

Complete Report without Introduction: (LINK)

INTRODUCTION:

Over 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries recently voiced significant objections to major aspects of the so-called "consensus" on man-made global warming. These scientists, many of whom are current and former participants in the UN IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), criticized the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore.


The new report issued by the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee’s office of the GOP Ranking Member details the views of the scientists, the overwhelming majority of whom spoke out in 2007.



Even some in the establishment media now appear to be taking notice of the growing number of skeptical scientists. In October, the Washington Post Staff Writer Juliet Eilperin conceded the obvious, writing that climate skeptics "appear to be expanding rather than shrinking." Many scientists from around the world have dubbed 2007 as the year man-made global warming fears “bite the dust.” (LINK) In addition, many scientists who are also progressive environmentalists believe climate fear promotion has "co-opted" the green movement. (LINK)


This blockbuster Senate report lists the scientists by name, country of residence, and academic/institutional affiliation. It also features their own words, biographies, and weblinks to their peer reviewed studies and original source materials as gathered from public statements, various news outlets, and websites in 2007. This new “consensus busters” report is poised to redefine the debate.


Many of the scientists featured in this report consistently stated that numerous colleagues shared their views, but they will not speak out publicly for fear of retribution. Atmospheric scientist Dr. Nathan Paldor, Professor of Dynamical Meteorology and Physical Oceanography at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, author of almost 70 peer-reviewed studies, explains how many of his fellow scientists have been intimidated.



“Many of my colleagues with whom I spoke share these views and report on their inability to publish their skepticism in the scientific or public media,” Paldor wrote. [Note: See also July 2007 Senate report detailing how skeptical scientists have faced threats and intimidation - LINK ] ..............

Only 52 Scientists Participated in UN IPCC Summary

The over 400 skeptical scientists featured in this new report outnumber by nearly eight times the number of scientists who participated in the 2007 UN IPCC Summary for Policymakers. The notion of “hundreds” or “thousands” of UN scientists agreeing to a scientific statement does not hold up to scrutiny. (See report debunking “consensus” LINK) Recent research by Australian climate data analyst Dr. John McLean revealed that the IPCC’s peer-review process for the Summary for Policymakers leaves much to be desired. (LINK)

Proponents of man-made global warming like to note how the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) and the American Meteorological Society (AMS) have issued statements endorsing the so-called "consensus" view that man is driving global warming. But both the NAS and AMS never allowed member scientists to directly vote on these climate statements. Essentially, only two dozen or so members on the governing boards of these institutions produced the "consensus" statements. This report gives a voice to the rank-and-file scientists who were shut out of the process. (LINK)

The most recent attempt to imply there was an overwhelming scientific “consensus” in favor of man-made global warming fears came in December 2007 during the UN climate conference in Bali. A letter signed by only 215 scientists urged the UN to mandate deep cuts in carbon dioxide emissions by 2050. But absent from the letter were the signatures of these alleged “thousands” of scientists. (See AP article: - LINK )


UN IPCC chairman Rajendra Pachauri urged the world at the December 2007 UN climate conference in Bali, Indonesia to "Please listen to the voice of science.”


The science has continued to grow loud and clear in 2007. In addition to the growing number of scientists expressing skepticism, an abundance of recent peer-reviewed studies have cast considerable doubt about man-made global warming fears. A November 3, 2007 peer-reviewed study found that “solar changes significantly alter climate.” (LINK) A December 2007 peer-reviewed study recalculated and halved the global average surface temperature trend between 1980 – 2002. (LINK) Another new study found the Medieval Warm Period “0.3C warmer than 20th century” (LINK)


A peer-reviewed study by a team of scientists found that "warming is naturally caused and shows no human influence." (LINK) – Another November 2007 peer-reviewed study in the journal Physical Geography found “Long-term climate change is driven by solar insolation changes.” (LINK ) These recent studies were in addition to the abundance of peer-reviewed studies earlier in 2007. - See "New Peer-Reviewed Scientific Studies Chill Global Warming Fears" (LINK )


With this new report of profiling 400 skeptical scientists, the world can finally hear the voices of the “silent majority” of scientists.



LINKS TO COMPLETE U.S. SENATE REPORT: Over 400 Prominent Scientists Disputed Man-Made Global Warming Claims in 2007

Complete Report: (LINK) Complete Report without Introduction: (LINK)
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by LID2LID on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
We need more global warming.

That way, the rising sea levels get rid of ridiculous DXCC "countries" like BS7.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AB9PZ on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
>>>>by WA9AFM on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Go Green! Buy Heathkit!<<<<


Amen, brother!


 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KF7CG on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
NOTE: CC&Rs contribute to Global Warming!

Part the first: Use a clothesline instead of the dryer; can't be done. No clotheslines allowed!

Part the second: Use solar power devices. No way, not permitted by most CC&R. Things about devices on roof and other things.

Part the third: Work QRP. Inconvenient and futile at best. Good QRP requires the best in antennas. Not permitted by CC&R. Use lower power to transmit, still need more power to get out than with decent antenna. Get bored frustrated, go watch big screen TV use lots of power there.

Summary: CC&Rs limit the choices and flexibility to creatively solve the energy usage question. No windmills, Restrictions.

KF7CG
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AB9PZ on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
>>>>by K9OHI on December 20, 2007
1.6 GPF toilets,<<<<

Remember the "low flow shower heads" episode on Seinfeld? That was hysterical!

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by ARRLBOOSTER on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Hey Randy-
ol GW may not be able to shut these down, but by golly, his buddies at the NSA, FBI and CIA sure are monitoring and listening to everyone's conversation. Professional? I have seen these ops actually laughing at the conversations of unsuspecting Americans. Wake up people, this is 1984.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KE4ZHN on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
My amp is already green. Its a Heathkit SB 220. This has got to be one of the most ridiculous "articles" Ive seen on here. This guy must be related to Al Gore.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N9AA on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Those of you who would like to hear some of WA4D's QRP operations and wonderful operating practices can listen here: http://www.ke9r.com/audio/wa4d/wa4d-SA-SFH.mp3

I'm sure he was only running 100 watts...

73,
Scott, N9AA

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KA3NRX on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Can we please stop this nonsense? Please?

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N7YA on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Troll bait.

Especially on a ham radio forum. Were mostly old, white, uptight and to the right in this hobby. The author knew what he was doing and just how to get the highly desired reaction from the right-wing pacemaker crowd, didnt he?

I guess my take on all this nonsense is simple, im cool with green in relevant areas...dont dump sewage into the ocean (the navy does this constantly), lets not squander our resources, basic stuff...common sense things, I also will continue to use my gas powered truck until a better solution i can afford comes along.
I run my computer, wasteful, i know...but hey, the author is doing it too...maybe we should tax Mike for posting here. But also make no mistake, its not just "liberal left wing greenies" who want to take control, its also the "hardline right wing christian conservatives" and...well...basically everyone else. Our nation is in a period of change right now, everyone has the grand plan that will make their own lives better and they dont want to hear your grand plan. And of course that wont sit well with everyone else....and then theres Mike, just looking for a little excitement in his day, i suppose.

Taxing hams for using a kilowatt wont, nor should it happen, this guy is just baiting you all into posting 1000+ hits and i see its going nicely. I thought it would when i first saw it. have fun all you liberals and conservatives...good luck in the "argument", im getting back on the air.

73...Adam, N7YA
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AB2WK on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I drive an SUV, I sometimes use my AL-811H, I have a pack of cigs in my pocket and I enjoy them all. God help the sob that tries to take them from me.

Best bumper sticker catagory:
Eat right, workout, jog everyday - die anyway
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AB9PZ on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
>>>>by KA3NRX on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Can we please stop this nonsense? Please?<<<<


You think the moderator(s) here aren't promoting this? Hey, it gets the blood flowing, and people check in....a perfect webhosting strategy. If you still can't live with this, get with WA4D and you guys can have a wierd green day all you want....who's stopping you?




 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N7YA on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Oh, i alsomst forgot to chime in on something else...i absolutely abhor these stupid little 1 1/2 gallon toilet tanks too!! A man needs a Throne, not a step stool (no pun intended)...These wimpy little toilets are 3 or 4 flushes AT LEAST! just to clear the water of #1, otherwise, the bathroom has that certain, musty water scent. Forget #2, you have to be a ready-made plumber every time...its not saving water when you have to flush 3 to 4 times every use.

Give me back my old 5 gallon tank. Hey, you know what, when i buy my new house, im going to find some and have them installed...screw the law on this one. My house, My "private time"...i want things that work right, the first time.

Ok, now i feel better venting that...again, no pun intended.

73...Adam, N7YA
 
Wow! Hot Topic!  
by N0EW on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
It is easy to see this stirred up the hornets nest. And rightly so! Your expressed concepts of sin taxes and taking away other people's freedoms because you don't like what they do is one of the main themes that is destroying this country. Perhaps that should be past tense, come to think of it.

I remember being a very naive kid. I thought America was all about Freedom. Boy was I wrong!

Thanks for taxing my carbon foot print Komrade!

Erik n0ew

PS: Please also recall that all the planets in the solar system appear to be heating -- Mars ice caps melting, etc, etc. None of the 'wackos' I hear preaching the good word about Global Warming ever account for this. Once I understand how my XCVR and pick up truck are melting the ice caps on Mars I may become a believer. Until then.... well, fill in the blank ;)

PPS: As long as the stupid and greedy out-breed the smart and fair-minded, we will continue our decline. There is no hope. Enjoy what remains as long as it does. Thereafter, stand in line beside THX-1138 and keep your mouth and mind shut!!!
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WI7B on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!


N7YA you are right. It’s Troll-bait. But here’s an interesting issue. The new Energy law that President Bush signed yesterday calls for the end of incandescent lighting in the US within a decade.

With the end of filament-based bulbs, how long until all filament-based tubes will cease to be manufactured?

Or will they be manufactured in “boutique” factories where the cost will be rather prohibitive for most hams?

So, the force of soporific cliches may not extend into the economic realm.

73,

---* Ken
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KG6WLS on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
This is bunk!! I get sick of hearing that the sky is falling and "earth is running a fever".
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K6CRC on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Hey Randy-
ol GW may not be able to shut these down, but by golly, his buddies at the NSA, FBI and CIA sure are monitoring and listening to everyone's conversation. Professional? I have seen these ops actually laughing at the conversations of unsuspecting Americans. Wake up people, this is 1984."

If this were "1984", you would not even know there was monitoring going on. Somebody would show up at your door, and you would never be seen again.

And, if you were actually involved with intelligence monitoring and made a statement such as you just made in a public forum, you would have violated the law and the terms of your Security Clearance. Was that remark on eHam worth the dreaded "10 years in jail/$10,000" penalty you were certainly told about?
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WA6RZ on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
You can have my linear when you pry it out of my cold dead hands (or arms in this case, it is an 811H). I am sick and tired of our green movement (aka Socialists) telling me I am evil because of my lifestyle. I always thought we were a country built on freedom.

One thing that always makes me laugh is the hypocrisy of the left. Not just in how they tell people to live and then do not follow their own rules, but in how they claim to be for freedom of choice, thought, etc. If they are so concerned about freedom of choice, why are they forcing a nanny state on us and telling us if we do not live their way were are bad?

I fled a totalitarian state as a child. The green movement is going in that direction. Anytime you hear this stuff, think ‘watermelon’. Green on the outside, red at the core.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K9CKA on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks you reminded me that I have to call the electrician to install my 220 line for my amp.
73
Craig
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K6CRC on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"But here’s an interesting issue. The new Energy law that President Bush signed yesterday calls for the end of incandescent lighting in the US within a decade."

On the surface, it makes sense. If LEDs can match incadescent lights in the near future, then it is a good thing. If we have to go with florescence lamps, then we will have a huge mercury poisoning issue as old tubes go into landfills.

No easy answers, but conservation starts with the individual.

Randy
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AC5E on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Global warming is real science?" I see by todays news that another 400 scientists have put their jobs on the line - and declared "global warming" a fraud. To Congress, no less.

More than 500 scientists have declared it to be junk science this month. And there have been more than 400 a month for over a year.

Pretty soon only Al Gore, a handful of grant hunters, and the media will be left in the global warming panic.

73 Pete Allen AC5E
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W3WN on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Want a Green radio?

Buy a Heathkit!
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N3OX on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"we will have a huge mercury poisoning issue as old tubes go into landfills. "

I'd rather have mercury in a landfill with the *possibility* of the landfill's liner leaking and allowing mercury into the soil deep down than the *certainty* of mercury spewed into the air by burning the coal to power those incandescents.



 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AG4RQ on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
by WI7B on December 20, 2007
"The new Energy law that President Bush signed yesterday calls for the end of incandescent lighting in the US within a decade.

With the end of filament-based bulbs, how long until all filament-based tubes will cease to be manufactured?

Or will they be manufactured in “boutique” factories where the cost will be rather prohibitive for most hams?"

This has me thinking also. I've been using CFL bulbs in all my light fixtures since 2001 with the exception of the dining room chandelier, which uses those small-screw "flame" bulbs (25W each), the oven light and refrigerator light which use the heat-treated 40W appliance bulbs. I'm sure CFLs aren't made for refrigerators, ovens and chandeliers. I have to use incandescent bulbs for these purposes.

I use the CFL bulbs to save on the electric bill, and also because standard incandescent bulbs burn out too often - especially since they started making them in China. But what about the specialty bulbs that I just mentioned? Are they going to make exceptions for appliance bulbs and chandelier bulbs, or should I start stockpiling them now?
 
Go Green - Ban CC&Rs!  
by N2EY on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"NOTE: CC&Rs contribute to Global Warming!"

This is just BRILLIANT!

Part the Fourth: Gardens and compost piles not allowed. Food must be brought great distances
rather than grown in the yard; lawn clippings
and leaves must be hauled away. Wasted energy.

Part the Fifth: All modifications to house
must be approved by HOA, which is nearly
impossible. So more energy-efficient windows,
doors, siding, roofing, exterior lighting,
etc., not installed. Instead the inefficient
old stuff is replaced with more of the same.

Part the Sixth: Trees and other landscaping
that would save energy by shading in summer and
stopping wind in winter cannot be planted
without hard-to-get approval. Trees absorb
carbon, too.

Part the Seventh: Conforming to all the
CC&Rs is so nerve-racking and stressful that
residents must go away on long, distant,
energy-consuming vacations to preserve
their sanity, instead of staying home and
enjoying their lives.

Go Green - Ban CC&Rs!

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N4NI on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Those of you who would like to hear some of WA4D's QRP operations and wonderful operating practices can listen here: http://www.ke9r.com/audio/wa4d/wa4d-SA-SFH.mp3"

Wow, breaker breaker 1-9.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WB2WIK on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Go Green!

-Kermit
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KG6WLS on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Oh, yeah. One more thing I'd like to post: E noho iho i ke opu weuweu, mai ho`oki`eki`e.

Thanks Al Gore for getting these "nut jobs" in a tizzy over something that just happened to cycle in our lifetime. If they leaned any more forward to the left, they'd tip over.


Mele Kalikimaka & Hau'oli Makahiki Hou!!

73
Mike
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N2ZXE on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I personally believe that humans are at fault on global warming, than in the next millions of thousands of years Earth will have the same climate as Venus.

I personally walk to work every day, have fluorescent lights, do operate QRP only and what not. But honestly, I spent more energy at work that I do at home on my radio.

I think that for most having a high wattage linear amplifier will have a small energy footprint, being that it will not be on all the time, unless you're a beacon or a repeater. My gut reaction is that the energy footprint for a typical amateur operator is very small, compared to other sources of energy usage... like those Christmas balloons in front of your house and lighting displays. It would not be worth to have a moratorium on linears, unless you're trying to curb RF pollution which would be more of a cause of immediate concern.

Putting limits may also mean that overseas rtty service for news feeds and short wave radio would have to be curbed as well. Although the Internet have taken over most of that, those services are still a good thing to have around, specially in a disaster situation (I was stuck in PR for 3 days without any news service after a hurricane).

If you want to be "green" it should be a personal choice. Although each bit help, I'm not sure how this would help compared to other sources. As long as operators are law abiding operators, we should be ok.


My 2 cents.


 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N5EAT on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Probably the 'greenest' thing we can do is dispose of
all types of batteries responsibly. The earth is a closed system, and soon - all the stuff which used to be a half mile down into the earth will be scattered
over the surface.

I think that the use of 1000 watt amps is a small drop in the bucket. Remember back in the early 70's - the Indianapolis 500 and the Talladega 500 shortened their races by a few miles for publicities sake? If all the racing series used double the fuel they are using now - it would go unnoticed.

Dispose of your old computer junk and batteries responsibly and that will start a good trend. And - Merry Christmas to all.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W5EI on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Government has long used the "sin" tax to reduce consumption. Tobacco and alcohol are heavily taxed. Conversely energy efficient devices are granted federal tax credits to promote “green” use. In order to reduce amplifier use, Ameritron, Alpha, Tokyo, and others should have a stiff 'Green' fee placed on their amplifier products."


Yeah! And while we're at it, let's impose stiff "Green" taxes on big cars, big trucks, all types of air travel, boats, 4 wheelers, lawnmowers, barbecue grills, wine, liquor, and beer (all that heat used in brewing and fermentation, you know!), reading (gotta have light bulbs),food, and anything else that uses energy in any way. Additionally, each and every man, woman, and child in the diabolical US of A should have to fill out a government mandated carbon footprint report each month. If your government nanny says your footprint is getting too big, then you get locked in a rubber room for a month.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N5EAT on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
You don't have to be a liberal to be a conservationist. The republicans have simply hired their old cigarette scientists and put them on the
warming problem.

In a decade or so - if things don't change - we'll all be able to swim across the arctic. The neo-cons apparently think there must be a smudge on the satellite photographing this process....

Conservation is not a Republican owned nor Democrat owned issue. It's a science issue. China is putting one coal fired power plant online a week. Folks - it IS going to change the weather. When China and India are fully online - get your underground living quarters ready.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KA5ROW on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Your so called green tax will do nothing except cost ham operators more money.

It does nothing more than putting amplifiers financially out of reach of many ham's.

And who gets the tax money anyway.

I guess that is your point. Make it so expensive the ham radio operator cant afford to enjoy there hobby. " just price them out of there hobby".
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N0AH on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Yes, it is green enough.

When ever anyone returns a piece of junk to MFJ like the MFJ-1026, they just throw it into the back 40 and a corn stalk with 3 new ones grow out of the ground in about 5 weeks.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N0AH on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Brennen, if you are on Xmas break, can you please write a new article to replace this one too- I swear, they are going to post an article about the global warming effects on the moon dust messing up the EME crowd-

Maybe you can post something refreshing again-

Regards,


Paul
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K7CU on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
The Global Warming "threat" is nothing more than junk science. 30 years ago these same folks and magazines were in a panic about global cooling. Sir Gore couldn't make a decent political name for himself so he found another cause.
I don't own an amp, but if I did, I would sure use it to bust a pile-up or two.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W4VR on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I own a 2008 Yukon XL with the biggest engine that GM makes, never smoked because it's the worse pollutant and killer made by man, and I've been running maximum legal power since the early and 60's intend to continue doing so. Life is too short to make compromises.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KQ9J on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I guess even hams aren't immune to Junk Science. Pure hogwash. How about a tax on stupidity?
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N5XM on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I'm hoping this is tongue in cheek, but somehow I doubt it. If you don't think Ham Radio is "green" enough, nothing in the whole wide world could be green enough for you. Are you ready to give up battery power? Do you really think you're ready to give up all the goodies that are used to make all the discrete components in your circuitry? Are you going to tell me now that amplified RF causes acid rain? Are you gonna tell us that RF causes ozone depletion? Who do you think you are, Al Gore? You need to grab hold of your own radiator and have your wife key down for you, my friend.

 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KE7AKS on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
GLOBAL WARMING is a fact; it has been going on for 17,000 years now, at least a few days before Al Gore was squandering jet fuel in his iron birdie. I blame the Model T Fords… I remember seeing pictures of those Tin Lizzies driving across the Columbia River that was frozen solid from the Oregon Side to Vancouver Washington. We haven’t had that cold weather in decades.

As it applies to this post, then we should use more Echo Link and IRLP, thus not needing large FOOT WARMER AMPS, on HF . You do that, then in the style of Big Al, I will give you scrap price for your nice HF AMPS, and have a REAL RADIO STATION.

I really hate it when some guy is trying to SAVE POWER using an HT at 250 milliwatts, trying to hold a repeater that is 35 miles away, making everyone get the hebbie jibbies, just trying to hear him through all the scratch, picket fencing, etc. One key word that we don’t seem to hear is MAINTAIN communications.

GO IRLP..
SEND ME YOUR AMPS!

73 Harv KE7AKS
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K5LXP on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Newsweek article from 1975: "The Cooling World"

<http://www.junkscience.com/apr05/coolingworld.pdf>

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K8QV on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!

"They" have said we're in for another ice age in the 70s, global warming in the 90s, that fluoride is good for us, that fluoride is bad for us, that charbroiled steak causes cancer, and that it doesn't. That stiff toothbrushes are good, that soft toothbrushes are good. Cyclamates will kill you, and then they won't. Butter is bad, or maybe it's safer than margarine. Fluorocarbons are destroying the ozone and then again they're not. Cholesterol will give you a heart attack or stroke, but countries consuming higher fat diets and with much higher cholesterol have fewer heart attacks and strokes. Rock music contains secret messages if you play them backwards. Bill Gates and AOL will send you money if you forward e-mails. Remember how watching television will give you radiation poisoning? BPL will put an end to ham radio? Do we see a pattern yet?

The tiny ham population couldn't possibly have the slightest effect on any planetary system even if we all worked in concert to that end. And it's all BS anyway. Try a little critical thinking and don't be influenced by the masters of doom who stand to profit from your fear.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N0SYA on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
If hippies bathed more often they'd have better self esteem, and be more pleasant in general.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K4JSR on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
KC8YLJ said,"sounds like a political wacko from Cal to me - take it somwhere else"

I had nothing to do with this, OM!!! Honest!!!

Cal K4JSR ;-)


 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WA3SLN on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
What "Global Energy Challenge" I thought when you went green it meant you started drinking Rolling Rock Beer. Mike WA3SLN in Pa
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K4JSR on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
W3WN asked, "Want a Green radio?"

I did not know that W2NSD made radios!!!

Cal K4JSR

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
You'll have to pry my B&W 5100S from my cold dead fingers!
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KE7AKS on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Yep, it is true your AMPS are using too much electricity, and warming the air, that is why you should give them to me.... I will work on learning to re-cycle the heat into my shack, for warming... condider it GREEN RESEARCH... I bet I will need lots of amps all running strong though, so eveyone send me your amplifiers.... in the name of RESEAECH.


Don't drive any Model T Fords ...
73 Harv KE7AKS
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by RADIOGUYR2 on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Mike, WA4D

Yep he is also on meth rock and see pink elephants.

Just another waist of energy and time writing junk like that.

One good point comes out however. Forget the Amps lets look at the power supply. Recently on our club repeater one ham did some figures. It has been said, and we checked it out, that if you leave your Astron Power supply on all the time and just turn the radio on and off; it consumes from 60-85 watts of power just sitting their.

Now not being Green but more squeeky money minded this fugures out to about 2000 watts a day even if you don't use the radio. at the going rate of 11 cents a KW thats 22 cents worth.
Not much you say... hmmm then lets contenue
you leave it on for a month and its 60 kw. or about $7 bucks a month

Still not much you say.... hmmm then lets see what it is per year.. ahhh 720 kw a year or about $80 bucks your just throwing away and making the power company all warm and fuzzy. (for 80 bucks you could make a soft start if you worry about the transformer shock)

How much CO at the powerplant is produced from that Hmmmmm... interesting

But, if 50,000 hams use the same power supply and leave it on all the time just think over 36 mw of power that is just going up in heat and CO and costing almost 4 million dollars a year.

Yikes... I turn mine off when done now.

This is something that effects us all -- every one be they qrp or big guns
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K0PD on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Geez now this(green) BS is on this board. I'll not ad any more to this ridicoulas discussion......
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KL7FH on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I am GREEN with envy! I want to have a station like K3LR, K1TTT, K3LPL and many many others! Global warming...hmmmm...since the ICE AGE! like quoted in an earlier note...way before the industrial revolution! Let it rest...get on the air and RELAX!
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by NI0C on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Troll article obviously designed to draw out those who get their science education from the likes of Rush Limbarf and his Limbarf Institute for Advanced Republican Studies (LIARS).

You even found in one guy who claims he can infer your religion from the title of one book you read-- how pathetic!

Nice job of reelin' 'em in, Mike!
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K7QQH on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Mike--

Sounds like the usual Kalifornia style liberal B.S. we're so sick of up here in the Northwest. If you or other "greenies" are concerned about "global warming" or "enviro-friendly" behavior, consider that about 60% of the U.S. landmass is currently undergoing severe winter storms, and oh, by the way: The mountain passes here in Washington state are getting pounded by so much snow, sleet and freezing rain that they may be nearly impassible for awhile. Should I call Al Gore to fly out on his private, fuel guzzling bizjet for advice?

Quit the liberal group-think loonie crap and stick to the technical topics of the hobby. I couldn't even finish reading your disgusting, ill-informed pap.

Roger C.
K7QQH
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1LL on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
This article was so lame that I went and flushed my toilets three times to waste water and have now turned on all the lights in the house....

Hows that for being Green...!!!!

Give me a fricking break.....

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
K7QQH,

You have a severely limited understanding of global warming there.

It does not mean -everything- gets hotter, it means the moderators (ice caps, oceans, sea's, upper atmosphere) get warmer.

What that means to us on the ground is wildly unpredictable weather patterns, increased storm severity and with the melting of the caps and glaciers increased flooding.

If it gets too bad it leads to a shutdown of the oceanic conveyors because of desalination of the upper water layers at the polar seas and that means even wilder fluctuations of weather along with colder coast lines at the higher and lower latitudes and desertification of inland areas.

Our crappy winter fits right in with that model.

If you are going to make fun of something at least know what it is.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W9PMZ on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
good grief, I used to live in Enfield, CT. Winters in the early nintys were pretty crappy then.

the global current idea is only a theory; not a proven fact.

give me a break.........


73,

Carl - W9PMZ (ps, its 90+ here in Thailand, sure beats back home, I'll take a dose of warming anytime)
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K3EY on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
The Dog Lives.

This is the Dog I know and love but instead of using SSB from VA he is on the computer from CA doing the same thing twenty odd years later. Mike knows how to stir the pot very elegantly while he sits chuckling at the serious minded old farts who we all are or are fast becoming.

I work for the biggest corporation in the world and they are green insane. Instead of green it should be called what it is, insanity, regardless of what the PhDs claim.

Of course being human and fallible I may be completely wrong, I doubt it but maybe. Regardless, I feel I am doing my part causing zero harm. I just purchased an new HF Amplifier and a new 2008 model car that is PZEV which means Partial Zero Emission Vehicle. Therefore Al Gore has me classified as zero net gain with no penalties, no carbon credits required. I am doing my part like GE is doing, pretending to be green while polluting third world countries manufacturing things they used to manufacture here. Now it’s clean here in the USA with no jobs, but clean which is what really matters even more then your very soul’s destiny.


Curt/k3ey
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N5ACK on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
OK, maybe the original poster went a bit far, but I agree it makes it more economical for those of us who don't have an extra $100 per month to pay for the added electricity to run the amp and cooling required, and also makes things more of a challenge. You may have 2000 watts and there are 200 people who can hear you, but you might only be able to hear the 3 people who, like you, also have a 2000 watt amp.

Me, I'm running 100 watts barefoot and proud of it.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
W9PMZ,

Yeah, I didn't say it was right but that is what they are saying.

Me, I'm already net zero emissions as is and I intend to keep it that way just because I live here and I don't wanna crap it all up. Whether global warming is right or wrong, there's no need to treat the planet like a cess pool if it doesn't hurt you not to.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
THanks N9AA for exposing what many of us have known first hand about that half wit Whatley for years.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by UC1AWX on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Hah! Let's limit power to what owner can physically supply. Cure for beer belly too!
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W4HLN on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Jeeeeeze.....



Who Castrated the "DAWG" ???
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K7QQH on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Hi KV1M--

Sorry I "misunderstood" the issue in your eyes - we misinformed, dumb, multi-degreed aircraft systems engineers wouldn't have a clue about how the atmosphere works now would we? I'll think about coastal and aquatic climatalogical changes as I'm scraping the ice off the windshield this evening when leaving the office.

You didn't answer the question: Should Al Gore fly out here in his (carbon credited offset) gas guzzling...er...JP4/5 guzzling bizjet and advise us? Again, let's stick to the myriad technical subject matters of the hobby and quit preaching pop-science. In my business, we deal with only facts: Either the aircraft gets off the runway or it doesn't.

Best Regards,

Roger C.
K7QQH
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W5FYI on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Mike,

FYI, we've already gone "green." We averted global deforestation when the FCC decided to no longer require us to maintain logbooks, and when 73, Ham Radio, Popular Electronics and Radio & Electronics magazines ceased publication. Some hams continue to support the movement by not mailing much-needed QSL cards, and hoarding green stamps in case of future shortages.

And don't get me started on the relative rarity of carbon-composition resistors nowadays....

Give me a break.

Stew
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W7ETA on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Government has long used the "sin" tax to reduce consumption. Tobacco and alcohol are heavily taxed. Conversely energy efficient devices are granted federal tax credits to promote “green” use. In order to reduce amplifier use, Ameritron, Alpha, Tokyo, and others should have a stiff "Green" fee placed on their amplifier products. (With these levies going to "Green" ham radio activities and education)."

How many tress did you plant last year?

Are you ahead or behind the curve to drive a vehicle that averages 40mpg?

How much of the food you eat do you grow?

If you take a shower, do you turn the water off while you soap down, and then back on just to wash the soap off?

Yup.

A tax on amp manufacturers, based upon taxing addictive drugs like alcohol and nicotine, makes a lot of sense!

Bob
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N4GVA on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I suspect a number of hams are green after reading this latest tidbit of stupidity.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Hi K7QQH!

"Sorry I "misunderstood" the issue in your eyes - we misinformed, dumb, multi-degreed aircraft systems engineers wouldn't have a clue about how the atmosphere works now would we? I'll think about coastal and aquatic climatalogical changes as I'm scraping the ice off the windshield this evening when leaving the office."

You didn't just misunderstand in my eyes, you got it completely wrong and repeated the talking points verbatim. Degree or no, you were wrong about it.
And I corrected you. Sorry that ruffled your aircraft engineering degree carrying feathers.
Think about it or not, I could care less.
But if you are going to attack something at least know about it. They did teach you that at school right? They did me.

"You didn't answer the question: Should Al Gore fly out here in his (carbon credited offset) gas guzzling...er...JP4/5 guzzling bizjet and advise us? Again, let's stick to the myriad technical subject matters of the hobby and quit preaching pop-science. In my business, we deal with only facts: Either the aircraft gets off the runway or it doesn't."

I wasn't aware that was directed at me, I was only correcting your misstatements.
I'll bite though.

No. Because you are small a fish with a negligible overall impact he should not waste the fuel and time to visit you and educate you about something I presume you are intelligent enough to research on your own. But you could ask him I suppose if it will make you feel better in some way.
On the other hand if you run the airport or are actually the executive in charge of the aircraft power plant designs then he probably should give you a visit since you are just the type of person who would need to have all the information available to make an informed decision.

As for pop science, I'm not sure it is.
I don't think it is probably all that accurate right now but cold fusion it is not. Just because you haven't bothered to even learn the basics about it doesn't make it pop science. As an engineer you of all people should know better than passing judgment on something without even knowing the basics about it.

But quite right, let's get to radio. This subject is too difficult for most.

Happy Holidays!

73,

Todd
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W5ESE on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
We'll give up our amps when Al Gore gives up flying
in private jets.

Scott
W5ESE

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WT0A on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
GET A LIFE
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W9PMZ on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
KV1M - we agree on the cesspool.

But you need to go outside the country to see the cesspool. The US does more to clean up its act than most.

Wait until the Olympics............

73,

Carl - W9PMZ
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W6TH on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
.

Oh my, those poor polar bears in the summer heat, please send them here to the New England where the temperature in now in the minus degrees and if warmer like 30f as all day today, we have a foot or more of snow they can roll around in. P.S., snow is predicted for the rest of the week and these states here welcome all bears and wild life including our moose family, but humans and Al Gore, you folks are on your own as we don't go for all your BS.

.:
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Hi Carl,

I don't know about that.
I just got back from London last week and it was a VERY clean city. The airport (and it's toilets) were spotless, the underground was spotless, everywhere I went the streets were clean.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KF4KQI on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
What a joke of a article.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AD7KC on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
This is a joke........right?

How come you get better font control?
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AB7E on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Anyone who has the slightest doubt that WA4D epitomizes the worst of our hobby really needs to listen to the recording referenced by N9AA (http://www.ke9r.com/audio/wa4d/wa4d-SA-SFH.mp3). The recording is about 32 minutes long but you'll hear everything you need to know in the first five minutes. This clown is getting WAY more attention here than he deserves. Trust me ... just listen to the clip.

Dave AB7E
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KI6JUU on December 20, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Why would anyone accept the word of any politician on any subject? The reason they went into politics in the first place is because they are too lazy to work, too proud to beg and and too cowardly to steal.
The only reason that the polar bear population has dropped is because, Fat Albert ate them.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AE6RF on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
A lot too late, comma but...

"Don't feed the troll."

73 de Donald
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KA8OCN on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Global Warming is a Religion and Al Gore is the High Priest.

30 years ago the nut jobs told us Global Cooling was going to kill us all now Global Warming is going to kill us all.

Its simple, they do their best to scare the people then we will be willing to pay more money in taxes and usage fees.

Yes I think we need to use less oil, we are sending more and more of our money oversees to pay for the oil and that keeps us dependent on someone else for our energy needs.

To fix this problem we only have to unleash the smart and the rich people in our country and untie their hands, then get out of the way and capitalism will again find a better way.

Dont have the government give tax money to people that just do research with no real benefit, tell some of the investors in our country that If you can come up with a clean, renewable energy source and get it to market you will not have to pay any taxes on their profits for 10 years. (Can you say motivation)

Rich people will do what rich people do best, try and get richer by employing researchers, engineers, and labors and taking the best of what they come up with to the next step, something simple enough that it can be marketed to the general public and in turn they can made money and we will have a new energy source.


P.S. I have 2 amps, I only use them when I am doing DX and having a problem with a pileup but I will use them when I deem necessary not when some bureaucrat gives me permission, I am almost 50 and I don't have to ask my Mother any more with I play with my toys.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by G3LBS on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Why not invite President Tom from Iran to speak on this at Harvard expenses paid? He will soon warm up the planet if you don't watch out!
Buffalo Gil W2/G3LBS
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1CJS on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
One poster said it already--the US does more than almost everyone else in cleaning up the environment. We've got to do this, we've got to do that.........

Compared to our country, the Chinese don't do diddly--yet they want us to lead in the 'fight' against global pollution? Give me a break--we already do.

As far as ham radio causing any part of pollution--don't make us laugh.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N4FDG on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Apparently we have run out of things to discuss.
 
UNBELIEVABLE  
by DL3ZM on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
When I read all this comments I was absolutly surprised and disappointed!
Do american people really still doubt that the climate change is coursed seriously by mankind and that everyone has to econimize?

What else has to be done to convince you?
For me that is UNBELIEVABLE!

Hans-Georg
(DL3ZM)
 
RE: UNBELIEVABLE  
by M0AFJ on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Hans-George, I cannot believe the responses to this post, talk about`head in the sand', do they really think that the US is immune to global warming. It seems that because George Bush says it isn't true then thats the excuse to do nothing. King Canute tried that and got his feet wet!.
I feel sorry for the children and grandchildren of these people, I'll be dead when they are suffering.
 
RE: UNBELIEVABLE  
by NI0C on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
For DL3ZM and M0AFJ:

What you are observing is the power of propaganda at work. For example, here in St. Louis, our most powerful AM radio station broadcasts the Rush Limbaugh show for 15 hours per week. Limbaugh, who boasts that he is the first in his family NOT to receive a college degree, ridicules the Nobel prize winning scientists and others who are studying global warming and its causes and effects.

This clown, who boasts of his wealth, his fancy cigars, and about being able to afford to self-insure himself for medical treatment, also rails against any kind of national health care plan that would fix the obviously failing private health care system in this country. He's basically a mouthpiece for the Bush Administration and the large corporations who elected Bush to serve their interests. Unfortunately, many people have succumbed to such propaganda in this country.

73,
Chuck NI0C
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by NI0C on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
K7QQH wrote: "we misinformed, dumb, multi-degreed aircraft systems engineers wouldn't have a clue about how the atmosphere works now would we?"

You've offered us no reason to believe your education regarding the utility of the atmosphere as a mechanism for transportation qualifies you to pass judgement on the science of climate change or its causes and effects.

I spent fifteen years as an engineer in the aerospace industry, and I recall one colleague (also "multi-degreed") who was an expert in video electronics systems who actually believed that rivers and streams always flowed from North to South! It is indeed unfortunate that education can be so narrow!

73,
Chuck NI0C
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Global Warming", so called, is another attempt by the poormouth UN rabble to pick the pockets of western democracies which have already cleaned up their acts (while the Chinese, for example allow underground fires to burn up 250 million tons of
coal a year) We know, of course, that the money would
end up in Swiss bank accounts and used to finance
a fine lifestyle in the South of France next door to "Baby Doc". Meanwhile, 400 well respected scientists DISAGREE with the "scientific conclusions"
and are insulted for their differing opinions. BTW, since solar radiation, and temps, are increasing on Mars, who are the "third world" going to make pay FOR THAT.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N4AWP on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I do not owm an amp, but as soon as I can find a good deal on a 811H, I will be "Heating The Wire". If rf is going to cause the earth to melt down, I hope I live to see it.

73s Art
 
RE: UNBELIEVABLE  
by KA2FIR on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Global warming has been artificially induced to bring about global enslavement. Our weather is being modified by HAARP and other ionospheric heaters and scaler weapons. The woodpecker was not OTH radar but a scalar weapon directed at US. Look up and see the aerosols being sprayed 24hr/day and they're not contrails. You can see the EM waves in clouds on GOES-EAST in the northeast almost daily. In 4 years you wont be able to buy incandesent bulbs and will be forced to buy mercury-toxic flouresent bulbs. Our gov't and country has been usurped tnx to the sheeple.

"This is the age of deception." - Bill Cooper

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7299668110171032533&q=the+great+global+warming&total=667&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKAC4kfHruQ

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295&q=global+warming+hoax&total=161&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=6

 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WB4BTL on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Adam (N7YA) said, "Oh, i alsomst forgot to chime in on something else...i absolutely abhor these stupid little 1 1/2 gallon toilet tanks too!! A man needs a Throne, not a step stool (no pun intended)...These wimpy little toilets are 3 or 4 flushes AT LEAST! just to clear the water of #1, otherwise, the bathroom has that certain, musty water scent. Forget #2, you have to be a ready-made plumber every time...its not saving water when you have to flush 3 to 4 times every use."

Adam, I have a solution for you. Throw out your American toilets (American Standard, Mansfield, Kohler and the rest), and replace them with a Japanese Toto. With a single flush (varities of cyclone, G-Max, gravity, power gravity or washout), the 1.6-gallon Toto sucks down all of the debris that you've deposited in the bowl. There's no splatter or back draft, and no burping from King Toto. Additionally, the porcelain is forever sparkling like new.

If you're willing to pay the price, Toto will solve your problems. There's no excuse to complain, because the crapper's solution is a Toto.

Mike: How the heck are you doing? I was thinking about you this morning when I was flying up I-395N past the Seminary Road exit. I'm still working with the folks at VDOT with plans pertaining to erecting "The Dawg" statue. NOAA wants to install a mobile weather station in the statue framework. Their argument supports the need for a weather report relay link to the folks on LidCars (7258). The 7258 crowd will have continuous weather reporting from the Dawg's former home in suburban Washington, DC. Be patient, because we're working with a tight budget.

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year.

John
WB4BTL
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N4OI on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I do not know why the weather cycles in the northern hemisphere are warming, but when visiting Glacier National Park it became very apparent that the permanent snow banks are retreating at a fast pace. I hope it is a cycle -- in fact, it would be interesting to see if there is any correlation with the sun's output over time... but not the point of my comment.

I am limited to an attic antenna but still enjoy working CW at 100 watts on most of the HF bands (limited by the range of my tuner). Although the input power is relatively high, my ERP is closer to QRP than QRO! I always give credit and thanks to the operators' skills and good receivers on the other side of every QSO I make!

I believe the new DSP-based radios with great NR and filters are making low-ERP stations like mine more effective (and fun) than in the past. With all this new gear, perhaps QRO no longer needs to be the norm for good, solid QSOs and DX. Just a thought...73 and Merry Xmas de Ken N4OI
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W4PA on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
If paranoia could be turned into electrical energy, this thread would light a whole box of eco-friendly twisty light bulbs.

The U.S. government is not the slightest bit interested in controlling your lives. If that's what you think, you have bigger problems to worry than 500 watts of RF overheating the Earth.

Really, people.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W9OY on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Dang Mike I think your crack is showing again, pull up your pants

73 W9OY
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W9OY on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I thought he was talking about Wayne Green
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N0NB on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
All well and good until this paragraph:

"Government has long used the "sin" tax to reduce consumption. Tobacco and alcohol are heavily taxed. Conversely energy efficient devices are granted federal tax credits to promote green use. In order to reduce amplifier use, Ameritron, Alpha, Tokyo, and others should have a stiff "Green" fee placed on their amplifier products. (With these levies going to "Green" ham radio activities and education)."

Sorry, Bub, but here is where we part ways. That's simply Marxist thinking, "From each according to his means. To each according to his needs." and is representative, and what's wrong with the environmental movement as a whole.

So, you say they're just words. Well, so are The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, The Holy Bible, The Declaration of Independence, The US Constitution, Part 97, and many more works. Words mean things, so your trying to suggest otherwise is a cop-out. Since you took the time to assemble these words, I must take you seriously. What you propose is dangerous in so many ways but especially in regard to the freedom of being a radio amateur.

For the record, I have operated with 100 Watts or less from my shack for my entire career. I dabble in QRP and I own an FT-817. At some point I hope to power my station independent of the power mains which has a number of advantages as I see it. I do these things because they are fun and challenging to do. But once these things start being mandated, I will fight them tooth and nail.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KE4MOB on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I view "global warming" with a healthy dose of skepticism.

It wasn't too long ago everyone declared that nuclear war would wipe us off the face of planet.

Now every time I turn on the Disaster Channel (aka the Discovery Channel) I'm presented with a new, more compelling way that life may end on this, the third rock from the Sun.

Biological Warfare
Meteorite Impact
Mega Volcanism
Nuclear War
Global Warming
Magnetic Pole Reversal
Nearby Cosmic Disturbance
Solar Anomalies
Cybernetic Attack

And the list goes on and on.

I just wonder if back during the height of the Maunder Minimum did everyone believe that a new Ice Age was upon us and humans would become extinct??
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by TUBEGUY on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Eham must be getting desperate for decent articles. Talk about a waste of bandwidth.

Sheesh.

I know I spend a lot of green on the hobby. Does that count?

In spite of the absurdity of this article,

HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL !!! 73
 
RE: UNBELIEVABLE  
by N9LYA on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Its not rocket science to see that Global Warming is a HOAX...

GET REAL..
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N9XTS on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Be not afraid!
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AA1IK on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
It’s a bit early for April Fool's Day,

but what the heck, if you see Christmas advertising then you know that Thanksgiving can’t be far away!

WA4D must just be getting a jump ahead of everyone by celebrating April Fool’s Day early!

Judging by the comments, 6-land has not cornered the market on people who have been deceived by liberal, lunatic, tax-every-thing-that-moves-or stands-still whacko’s.

WA4D “IS” from California, no surprise here!
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AB9PZ on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
>>>>>by TUBEGUY on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Eham must be getting desperate for decent articles. Talk about a waste of bandwidth.

Sheesh.

I know I spend a lot of green on the hobby. Does that count?

In spite of the absurdity of this article,

HAPPY HOLIDAYS<<<<<


Oh no, no....this is very calculated. Have a look at WA4D's profile on QRZ.COM and then click on his webpage link. He's got excerpts all over it from this thread. He's green all right....smoking his medical marijuana. What a whackjob.

Back atcha on the HAPPY HOLIDAYS, Tubeguy, and best 73!

 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KE7AKS on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I'm starting to suspect that some people are SMOKING TOO MUCH GREEN..... Those old Model T Fords must have done this to us... I will put your terible old amps to good use, send them to me, I will paint them with GREEN HI HEAT PAINT, then either sell them back to you, or just use them in my shack. Big Al shouldn't be the only one cashing in on the global warming terror issue. I could use some GREEN made by cashing in as well.

Honestly, I think I will start turning off my power supplys, all four of them, while they are not being used. I mostly run amps in the mobile anyway, saves house power, spends gasoline, but you just might hear me.

I think this is kinda fun to kick this FOOTBALL arround. Thanks for the POST.

Harv KE7AKS
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by M0AFJ on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I give up, I've lived in the US, met some brilliant people both on the East and West coast but I've never heard such crap, what the hell do you think you are all going to do when the oil runs out????,
For Gods sake get real......
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W9OY on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
There's a trillion barrels under the Rockey mountains and 2 trillion in Canada

We ain't runnin out any time soon
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K2MEN on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
My new Softrock40 RxTx $30

Vibroplex bug $229

Seeing old timers getting fired up like a Titan Rocket...........priceless.

 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by VE6CNU on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Being a geophysicist, I feel obligated to set the record straight.

1) Global warming is real and it is happening. This particular cycle started about 20,000 years ago (after the last ice age) without any influence due to man. It has to do with variations in our sun's power output, that are also cyclical. The geologic record clearly shows many such cycles within "recent" times (over the last few million years).

2) The question of man's contribution to global warming is still being debated by scientists and is not a closed matter. But whatever contribution one chooses to assume, it is foolhardy to believe that anything we can do will reverse it - or even significantly decelerate the current rate of warming.

3) If one believes that man's contribution is significant to global warming, the only true recourse is to significantly decrease the number of humans. Paleontology has demonstrated over and over that species evolve to fill a niche, exploit that niche, and then disappear. It would be naive to think of ourselves as anything but another species in this chain of events. In other words, enjoy it now because Mother Nature will see to it that the population of our species will decline substantially, either to more sustainable levels or to zero. It all happens naturally. No one really expects us to go back to living in caves, do they?

Finally, human nature is such that people only do what they must, given the circumstances. When gas reaches $10/gallon, I don't think you'll see many Hummers on the road. Similarly, when electricity gets so expensive that we can't afford to plug in a toaster, ham radio will also be toast. I currently operate with maximum output power of 100 watts, and would love it if everyone else did too. But the chance of this happening is about the same as everyone giving up their SUVs and minivans in favor of sub-compact cars. In the mean time, I'm going to enjoy the ride and worry about things that I actually can change.

73,

Jerry
VE6CNU
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KG9SF on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Regarding the original post, I feel Hank Hill said it best:

"I don't know whether to laugh or vomit."
 
Consider the source...  
by WB4M on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
The source of this "article" alone disqualifies it as having any merit.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KT4WO on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"The Public Safety/ARES types are legitimate users of heavy amps"

He forgot to add WinLink,,, so the guys out at sea can
have FREE EMail!!(and NO other interest in Amateur Radio)...wait!!..its for ECOMM..REALLY!! hee hee
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by G3LBS on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
All hams should go to bed when the evening gray line approaches and arise when the morning gray line approaches, to save energy.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W1XZ on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"The question of man's contribution to global warming is still being debated by scientists and is not a closed matter. But whatever contribution one chooses to assume, it is foolhardy to believe that anything we can do will reverse it - or even significantly decelerate the current rate of warming."
What ever you believe to be truth you can't deny there is a finite amount of fossil fuel left in the world. Whether it will last twenty years or one hundred years matters little. To use it a the rate we are now condemns mankind to one hell of a mess; perhaps before our generation is gone. To argue this as a red/blue issue is to deny the real problem...too many people and too few resources.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W8JJI on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
BRUTE FORCE FOREVER ! UP THE BIG IRONS !
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by G0GQK on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I wondered how long it would be before the "greenness" of amateur radio appeared somewhere. We are being bombarded by "green insurance" on TV so it was only a matter of time before this little gem appeared.

Tha anti-car fraternity have been working overtime in Britain in the last few years, working under disguise as the keepers of road safety. Driving at the permitted 30 mph, good boy ! However, forget for a moment and if the speedo reaches 33 mph, its essential that the law should clamp down on all these speeding car drivers, with heavy fines !

So the greening of amatuer radio time arrives ! Those wastrels using a 100 watts and particularly those Anti American operators who are using up all the earth's finite energy reserves should most certainly be stopped !
To support the government thinking on this matter, makes a change from saying issue every other word, the FCC might think of enforcing the use of low power at all times, in the interest of the American people of course ! From 2010 only QRP stations will be permitted and enforcement of this rule will be severe. There will be frequency "watchdogs" who will report those in non-compliance with the law. You may smile, but did we ever think in 1966 that there would be cops standing at the side of the road in yellow jackets reporting people driving over 30 mph ? No, we bloody well didn't ! Did we ever think they would fine us £60 or $120 for exceeding a few mph. The OAP pension incidentally is £87 per week !

So don't start pushing this "green" business because before you know where you are all the polar bears in Spitzbergen and Churchill will be dying, and it'll be your fault because of all the electricity you're wasting yakking on that radio !

G0GQK
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AG4RQ on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
by W1XZ on December 21, 2007:
"What ever you believe to be truth you can't deny there is a finite amount of fossil fuel left in the world. Whether it will last twenty years or one hundred years matters little. To use it a the rate we are now condemns mankind to one hell of a mess; perhaps before our generation is gone. To argue this as a red/blue issue is to deny the real problem...too many people and too few resources."

Whether anyone realizes it or not, there is an ever-increasing demand for oil by two very large developing nations - China and India. You wonder why the price of oil is so high? Because of the increased demands on the supply from these two countries. There are loads of cars on the streets and roads in China that weren't there ten or twenty years ago. Since privatization and industrial growth began to take hold, average citizens in China are now able to have their own cars.

There are two Chinese auto manufacturers that will soon begin exporting their products to the United States. They are already selling autos to their own people and in Europe.

Based on the reputation that Chinese products have, the very last thing I would want to own is a Chinese-made automobile. I can just visualize this in my mind. Picture driving down the street while the car is literally falling apart piece by piece until you find yourself sitting on the pavement holding onto nothing but the steering wheel.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1CJS on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Global warming is the newest moniker the tree huggers have invented to lead gullible souls down the garden path.

Yes, the way man abuses this world should stop, but there is a rhythm to the way the temperatures vary on the earth. We've gone from ice age to hothouse and back to ice age. The proof of that is right under our feet, and there are respected scientists that will show it to us, just like there are respected scientists that have sold their souls to the politicians that push the global warming viewpoint. They did it so both those scientists and the politicians can scare the crap out of us and cause us to follow THEIR agenda.

Nuclear power plants can be dangerous. However, in the past those dangers were blown way out of proportion so nuclear power would be stopped and the oil barons and OPEC could keep their stranglehold on the world economies. Now that the oil could be shown to be limited as to the remaining quantity, Iran is pushing to get a reactor to generate power. Other countries are going nuclear also. In Irans case, it could be a smokescreen so they can get weapon grade materials, but if it is to generate power, why are they doing it???

We can do much to clean up the planet--if EVERYONE on the planet would do the same, but everyone won't. China wants to do as they please, but they want us and other technological leaders to restrict ourselves.

'Global warming' is just a crock phrase to get us to follow someone elses agenda, nothing more.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W8KQE on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
VE6CNU, finally, a SANE post! Very well stated.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by G3LBS on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Hello, the old Xenophobia is creeping in!
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by GM0WDD on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I'm liking the paranoia on this thread!

KA2FIR takes the biscuit though! Must ask the refueller who supplies the aircraft fuel what they put in the fuel to make the mind altering contrails :-)

The world is warming. Whether it's due to human activity I'm not sure. But energy saving should be a way of life, as humans we waste so much.

Why do we need a 4.2 litre engine giving 20mpg in a saloon car when a 2.0 will do giving 35mpg?

The earths resources are finite, oil is about 94$ a barrel and only going higher with China and India's exponential economic growth. The 2 trillion barrels under the Rockies are oil shale. Current technology precludes an environmentally friendly way of extraction. We wouldn't want to mess a treasure like the Rockies up now would we? In addition they're still not economically viable, so it isn't the saviour it's made out to be.

I'm no greenie, I burn about 8 tons of oil on an average working day. But we should do our bit to save the planet for our kids. However using an amp has such a low impact it doesn't deserve the thread space.

But some of the comments on hear astound me from citizens of a nation I highly respect....
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AB0IO on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
This topic is, to put it mildly, a large, steaming pile of bovine scatalogical waste. If you want a truly educated opinion on global warming then read the comments and articles of Richard Linden of MIT, or someone with equally valid credentials. Mindless discussions such as this, based on the absurd suppositions of a bunch of clueless idiots from California, prove nothing.

You want a useful topic to debate? How about this? "Does Al Gore's gaseous emissions affect Sporadic E propagation on 6 meters?" This is a much more practical and much more easily provable question. Come to think of it, it is largely self-evident. A man with his waist line and a penchant for running off at the mouth surely must be affecting propagation on all bands.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by RADIOGUYR2 on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
M0AFJ on December 21, 2007
I give up, I've lived in the US, met some brilliant people both on the East and West coast but I've never heard such crap, what the hell do you think you are all going to do when the oil runs out????,
For Gods sake get real......



U think were dumb or something heck we will MAKE MORE FROM GARBAGE.

British Pet is working on it right now. They are taking all the american garbage. Arco made it clear. It will be called--- recycled food for fuel program. Heck-- If you can't burn it you can drink it while wating for the tow truck.

Just don't drink the Jet fuel. They still are wondering how one of the airline mechanics got from LA to England without a plane. Seems he attended a retirement party in they hangar, got drunk on the stuff, went out to have a smoke and never came back. Next day he called from England and was heard saying something about it being a blast to get their. But as usual in the industry, he lost all his cloths in transit.

Suprise now the environmentalist ..like Nuc energy. Weren't they the ones who predicted doom and gloom if it were to be used. I clearly remember seeing old Jane Fruitcake stand up and say it needs to be ban. her buddy Clintion made it happen.

The peanut growing president from the south said we all could run on peanut oil. peanuttiest.

So not to worry our political leadership is working hard to insure that you will still be able to go to work and pay your taxes. They have your best parts in good hands to make you happy. After all that is what they are their for -- something about they are supposed to insure that the country doesn't fall on its face while leading the word in give away programs and aid programs. I know we pay them a heck of a lot of money to lead us from the darkness to the light -- or is it to inlighten us -- hmmm
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AB9PZ on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
>>>>by G3LBS on December 21, 2007

Hello, the old Xenophobia is creeping in!<<<<


I see this from time to time from the Brits for some reason. Xenophobia....a fear of foreigners....I'm not sure how you're getting xenophobia out of this string. Please, enlighten us.



 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AI4NS on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Wait until you replace your incandescent bulbs outside with CFL's, and let it get cold. Even here in FL it gets cold enough that they don't always fire off, and when they do, they have a sick, yellow glow. The same people that are pushing global warming are the ones crying about the coming ice age in the late 70's. The same people that can't accurately tell you what the weather will be next week are not the ones we should be listening to about weather events farther in the future. Weather is a much art as science. Until it becomes science completely, it can't stand scientific scrutiny, not that that seems to be done much anymore. Just like critical thinking, a fading skill.

Mike
AI4NS
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AI4NS on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"ou have a severely limited understanding of global warming there.

It does not mean -everything- gets hotter, it means the moderators (ice caps, oceans, sea's, upper atmosphere) get warmer.

What that means to us on the ground is wildly unpredictable weather patterns, increased storm severity and with the melting of the caps and glaciers increased flooding.

If it gets too bad it leads to a shutdown of the oceanic conveyors because of desalination of the upper water layers at the polar seas and that means even wilder fluctuations of weather along with colder coast lines at the higher and lower latitudes and desertification of inland areas.

Our crappy winter fits right in with that model.

If you are going to make fun of something at least know what it is."

So why is the South Pole cap getting larger? The hole in the ozone layer?
http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/12442121.html

Mike
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WA1WIG on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Actual energy or material usage by the ham community is probably insignificant compared to what humans do as a group.

Energy costs, a horrendous power distribution system, pollution and security issues due to our dependence on oil are all too real.

Perhaps the "green ham" would would be one who uses his communication skills to communicate! Be leaders in real efforts to address real energy related problems.

de gerry, WA1WIG
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KU2US on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
To VK4DGG: I say BRAVO...Merry Christmas..
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by ICR71A on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Twas the whacko before Christmas...

Here is a little tidbit that may amuse the green folks. Electricity is not produced "on demand" for certain varying loads--there is a certain available tension in the lines AT ALL TIMES to supply differing loads. It makes little difference whether there are variances--the generators keep pumping out the same input to the distribution grid. The only electrical energy that is saved is via metered demand on your personal electric bill...

The electric heater that I turn on in the bathroom each morning for AN HOUR consumes more power than a week of my ham doings. I suppose next you will tell me to take a shower in a cold bathroom in order to save the planet?

Get real. This is ham radio--and one of its major purposes is to throw HUNDREDS or OVER A THOUSAND watts of electrical energy INTO THE ATMOSPHERE--in order to see who can hear us! If the writer of this "article" wants to save power, he should shut off his computer, stay home, and run QRP--where not too many of us will be troubled by his ideas.

My idea of going green in ham radio is this--I have a jar stuffed with green of different denominations. When it gets filled I intend to buy a legal limit amp-QRO with toasty glowing tubes. Certain hams I know will also be green--with envy!

73 OM DE N4PRT
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by ICR71A on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
And anyone with any sense at all knows why the polar bears are dying out--they drink too much Coca Cola!

Merry Christmas!
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W5AH on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
The only thing GREEN about ham radio has been and should continue to be Heathkits
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K8DXX on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I wish the rest of the world population was as well informed about the lunacy of global warming. Al Gore would have gotten the hook a long time ago and Rush Limbaugh would have won the Nobel Peace Prize :-) .
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WD4HXG on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Oh PLEASE! Enough things have already been Californicated. Last thing we need is a bunch of Environazis attacking amateur radio.

I am not Euel Gibbons and have no desire to browse the bushes foraging for food, nor do I wish to freeze my tush because some wack jobs think we are in the middle of Global Warming.

Egads
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WA1WIG on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
ICR71A >>>Here is a little tidbit that may amuse the green folks. Electricity is not produced "on demand" for certain varying loads--there is a certain available tension in the lines AT ALL TIMES to supply differing loads. It makes little difference whether there are variances--the generators keep pumping out the same input to the distribution grid. The only electrical energy that is saved is via metered demand on your personal electric bill... <<<

Clearly written by one who has no clue as the the difference between force (voltage) and power (energy per unit time). A ham that doesn't know what a Watt even is.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WA4DM on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Mikey in 6 land? Amplifier free? OMG! LOL Why didn't you post this on April 1st?

You are missed on 40m....What did I just read? My head is spinning.

:) WA4DM
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
by AI4NS on December 21, 2007:
"So why is the South Pole cap getting larger? The hole in the ozone layer?
http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/12442121.html"

What, are you dense or just blind?

I already stated that I didn't say it was right, it's just what they are saying is happening. This was in response to some degreed aircraft engineers remarks that showed that he did not even know what the opposition was stating.

As for the ice cap, why are you asking me? You seem so sure of the answer as is so run with it.

Don't you read these threads before commenting?
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by STRAIGHTKEY on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Give it up, dawg, you're too late. Eham turned into a troll cesspool a long time ago without you.

Eham "editors", good job on approving this flame bait. Your commitment to giving trolls, idiots, and jerks a podium to espouse their crap is exemplary. Thanks for doing your part to help wreck amateur radio.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KG6VPU on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I just have to ask Mike,

did somebody pay you to write that article?

Discloser- I own an Excursion with the headlites adjusted high to blast into compact, midsize or what ever size car that drives slow in the Fast lane- own a nice tower wid a 40-6m Steppir and a 3K Classic to bust into pile ups at will and have the XYL convinced that HAM Radio is a good thing at whatever PWR level I Operate at because I earned the right to do so.

Happy Holidays! KG6VPU
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W9PMZ on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"I don't know about that.
I just got back from London last week and it was a VERY clean city. The airport (and it's toilets) were spotless, the underground was spotless, everywhere I went the streets were clean. "

give me another break bub, one data point?

travel to asia, south america and africa.

this is the trouble with the green crowd, advance a theory, conform the data, and the proof is true!!!

look, as people on the earth we do need to take care of the enviroment. but we must also recgnoize that man has to live in his enviroment.

does man advance his own extinction at the expense of the algore?

73,

carl - w9pmz
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WA6BFH on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
While it is I’m sure less politically correct, I support the idea of NO power limits for LICENESED Amateur radio operators On Their BANDS!

While yes, I myself, do not often operate at above 100 Watts on the MF, or HF spectrum, I do often operate at the best power I can do on 6 Meters, or 135 centimeters (SSB or iCW).

Most if not all of this “green” thinking is at the best “flawed”, I mean, think of “MTBE’s”.

Better thinking would suggest:

1) Use good engineering practices.

2) Use best power.

3) Pursue the sciences.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
by W9PMZ on December 21, 2007:
"give me another break bub, one data point?"

OK, how about the rest of northern Europe then? I was just over there as well and traveled most of the Nordic countries. Cleaner than most of the southern states I've had to visit. Give yourself a break bub.

"travel to asia, south america and africa."

Nice examples, so the US is cleaner than most 3rd and 2nd world nations, is that your point? I guess I'll have to agree with you on that. The US is cleaner than the worlds poorest nations. Point taken.

"this is the trouble with the green crowd, advance a theory, conform the data, and the proof is true!!!"

And this is the problem with the greed crowd, ignore the data and spout drivel as truth.
Oh, and if your an American yell USA #1 at all times.

"look, as people on the earth we do need to take care of the enviroment. but we must also recgnoize that man has to live in his enviroment."

So what are you saying? Be as clean as is feasible or screw it it someone else's problem? Sure, we do have to live here, so why not leave as little mess as possible. Someone WILL have to clean it up and if it isn't you then it's your kids. Or is social responsibility too communist for you?

"does man advance his own extinction at the expense of the algore?"

I am confused by this sentence fragment.
Ahh, I see. It's an Al Gore thing. I bet you have an obsession with the Clenis as well.

73!

Todd
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
That wasn't very charitable of me, this being the season of charity and all.
How about this:

"And this is the problem with the greed crowd, ignore the data and spout talking points as truth."

There, much better.

Happy holidays!

Todd
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K5MO on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Ahh...reminds me, that it's time to fire up the "big iron".

The root article is nothing but trolling.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N6HPX on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I really don't feel any of us spend that much time in front of a radio, nor do they spend that much time in front of a Computer, although the computer has been rated in that spot for years.

I honestly feel many spend much more time in there cars, or on the TV than we do.

I really wish I could spend that extra time but its impossible with family and job being involved.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by TUBEGUY on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Ahhh...my Collins 20V-2 is doing a fine job keeping my shack warm on a cold northern winters day.....can't detect any global warming here,it's to cold outside BBBRRRRRRR !!!!
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KG6QHP on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm

I rest my case.

73 de KG6R,

Jim
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N8CPA on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Eat your heart out, Kermit. I can make it easy to be green.

Just as Al Gore sells indulgences in the form of carbon offsets, I am making available a similar system for my fellow hams. I am selling RF offsets. Ten dollars gets you 10 kilowatt years of eco-guilt free air time.

And just as proceeds for carbon offset sales goes to
planting trees, I'll take the proceeds from RF offsets and plant an antenna farm. Problem solved!

73 and Seasons Greenings!
 
Good Job Mike.  
by AH6GI on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Excellent troll.

You got them in a tizzy and gave me things to think about while I work on my SB-200.

de ah6gi/4
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AB9PZ on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
>>>>by STRAIGHTKEY on December 21, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Give it up, dawg, you're too late. Eham turned into a troll cesspool a long time ago without you.

Eham "editors", good job on approving this flame bait. Your commitment to giving trolls, idiots, and jerks a podium to espouse their crap is exemplary. Thanks for doing your part to help wreck amateur radio.<<<<


Someone on here wrote that eham is like a Mensa meeting in a biker bar.....good comedy, yet so true!

Cheers,

Brad
AB9PZ


 
Another clueless soul  
by ICR71A on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
WA1WIG CLUELESSLY WROTE:
"Clearly written by one who has no clue as the the difference between force (voltage) and power (energy per unit time). A ham that doesn't know what a Watt even is."

Sorry slick, but power generation follows certain rules--governed by load profile. Electrical producers ascertain an typical demand based upon the load curve and load duration curve of their service supply area. These factors determine how much power the generators will deliver at a given time, and how many generators need to be online.

Mainline power plants produce a certain base load output to meet typical consumer demands based upon average consumption and operating efficiency of the power plant. When peak demands occur, either additional generators are put on line or more commonly these days, surplus transmission potential is bought from another provider connected to the grid.

As an example, our TVA, EKP, and SKRECC facilities sell excess capacity to other power cooperatives throughout the central eastern US--in order to hold plant and fuel costs down. While the actual demand may vary by tens of thousands of megawatts by the hour or day or month, a certain stable available resource potential can be tapped into at all times. All of which uses a certain consistent amount of fuel to generate.

Base load electrical production is a use it or lose it proposition--it takes the same amount of fuel to keep the generator running irrespective of whether there is no draw aside from transmission loss, or the full base load is being consumed.

Do a little research before you post something stupid.

73 OM DE N4PRT
 
RE: Another clueless soul  
by G3LBS on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
The potato battery is our future I think, having the added advantage of enabling us to eat our rig?

W2/G3LBS
 
RE: Another clueless soul  
by K8QV on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Hey! I'm a biker, and they're smarter and nicer than most guys posting here!

BTW, bikes are green, regardless of their color :)
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N7YA on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Someone on here wrote that eham is like a Mensa meeting in a biker bar.....good comedy, yet so true!

:-) ...still is. I forgot all about that, hihi.
 
RE: Another clueless soul  
by WA1WIG on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
ICR71A wrote without thought:
"Sorry slick, but power generation follows certain rules--governed by load profile...."

in defense of his previous statement:

"Here is a little tidbit that may amuse the green folks. Electricity is not produced "on demand" for certain varying loads--there is a certain available tension in the lines AT ALL TIMES to supply differing loads. It makes little difference whether there are variances--the generators keep pumping out the same input to the distribution grid. The only electrical energy that is saved is via metered demand on your personal electric bill... "

Sorry, power distribution, generation and losses are directly linked to anticipated cumulative metered power. True, one light bulb won't be among the significant digits accounted for but cumulative effect of all consumers certainly is. Actually, every light bulb does increase the electrical power generated (see nit below) however insignificantly until multiplied by a large number of consumers. Your statements suggest consumer power consumption makes no difference.

There also is an interesting technical nit, excess standby capacity is not excess electrical energy produced. It is dissipated as heat at the generation facility, water over the spillway...

True, kinetic energy for electrical power generation in not produced "on demand", rather on "anticipated cumulative demand ("load profile").

It is stupidity to suggest individual consumption makes no difference given a very large number of individuals.

gerry, WA1WIG

 
RE: Another clueless soul  
by OLDFART13 on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
You want green?

Bring back Heathkits.
 
RE: Another clueless soul  
by N0NB on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
In their later years Heathkits were brown.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KI8JD on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Years ago, when the CFLs first became available, I switched over the entire house. I soon found out that the lifespan of the CFL was very short, at least in my house. I went back to incandescents. But, being a slow learner, I kept trying the CFLs over these many years, and I kept replacing them with incandescents a month later when they burnt out. I think I may have figured out the problem, we have 7 people living here, all of whom turn the light on when entering a room, and turn the light out when they leave. So, for an experiment, I bypassed the bathroom light switch, and installed CFLs. The question is which costs more, 36 watts of CFLs running 24/7, or 160 watts of incandescents when you need them?
73 Jim
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AG4RQ on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
KI8JD:
The worst thing you can do to a CFL is to frequently turn it on and off. It really shortens the life of one of those devices. I read up on CFLs. It is recommended to leave it on for at least 15 minutes before turning it off.

Once I turn mine on, I don't turn them off until bedtime. They use so little power that it doesn't pay to turn them off. I have a 60W (15W) CFL in the kitchen, 2 more 60W CFLs in the bedroom along with two 75W (20W) CFLs, and one 75W CFL in the living room. The second lamp in the living room, which also uses a 75W CFL is very seldom used. In total, my CFLs use 105W altogether. Compare that to 405W for comparable incandescent bulbs. So far since 2002, I replaced two of the 60W CFLs in the bedroom. The 60W CFL in the kitchen, along with the three 75W CFLs never had to be replaced yet.

I use flame incandescent bulbs in my dining room chandelier, and they're always blowing out. The chandelier uses eight 25W bulbs, but I use only 5. The other three are screwed in loose so that they don't light up. All eight bulbs would be too bright. If they ever come out with small-thread flame-type chandelier bulbs in CFL, I will also get them for the chandelier.

I like using CFLs because they last a lot longer than incandescents and use far less power.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W9PMZ on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"I am confused by this sentence fragment."

If algore had is way he would tear man down and start again in mold of his own image. I don't have an obsession with the huckster, but he sure has one with himself......

Nothing to be confused about that.

I planted 25 trees last year. I guess I'm good to drive my SUV. Planted 400 in 1982 come to think of it (really I did...), wonder why we are still having this global warming thing.

73,

Carl - W9PMZ

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 22, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
You must, why else would you bring him into this thread other than you automatically associate him with global warming and feel the need to rip on him because you don't believe it. He wasn't even mentioned in the article.

I'm thinking there's something about this that scares you guys, why else would be be so venomously spiteful about something that doesn't really affect your behavior unless you want it too?

Like I said before, I don't know if it's right or wrong, but either way it doesn't threaten me nearly as much as it seems to threaten you. And with your minds so absolutely closed and made up (and not one of you a climatologist I would wager) you aren't going to accept it even if it does turn out to be the way of it.

I find that curious.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K2DC on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Mike,
I was very surprised to see your post and the subject, because I remember very well your antics on 40M about 20 years ago. Tons of power, broad audio, deliberate QRM with a "come and get me" attitude, you were the Dog - WA4 - DOG. Quite a turnaround I must say if its real.
I have two Alphas. I turn the amp off when I don't need it. With band conditions the way they are in many situations, I need it. I drive a large SUV because if I didn't, I wouldn't get be able to get in or out of the house in the winter. And I drive it in a manner that gives me the best mileage I can get.
I am very much in favor of energy saving intitiatives and alternative fuels. But to suggest that amplifiers should be taxed in a manner similar to alcohol and tobacco is ludicrous.
The ham community in this country is about 0.2% of the popoulation. And how many of those are running the legal limit at a rate that has any significant impact on overall energy consumption? A huge consumption tax on amplifiers might raise a few million dollars that would only be lost in the government shuffle.
Enjoy your hobby as best you can. I intend to do the same.

73,
Don, K2DC


 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by G3LBS on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Why can a European Lotus 1.8 litre out-accelerate a
5 litre Corvette?
W2/G3LBS
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WB4TJH on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I guess next we have to turn off half of the dial lights in our radios to "conserve" engery. Give me a break...this is the biggest shovel full of runny horse crap I have read here yet. Maybe we should paint our radios green, but be sure and use environmentally friendly green paint. I'm just glad that boob Gore is not on the FCC. What idiotic buzz word will we hear next week? I guess next they will be saying that raising earth worms for fish bait adds to global warming.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W4VR on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I would rather see the DOG write his controversial articles and stir the pot in this forum than listen to people complain about his antics and deliberate interference on the HF bands. As some of you may know, the DOG was fined $2000 by the FCC in the 1990's for causing deliberate QRM to one of the traffic nets on 40 meters. Notwithstanding the misaligned focus of his present article, we should all be thankful he now does his thing on the internet and not on the HF bands.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AB9PZ on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
>>>>>by G3LBS on December 23, 2007
Why can a European Lotus 1.8 litre out-accelerate a
5 litre Corvette?
W2/G3LBS<<<<

I HIGHLY doubt that. Funny you didn't mention the Ford GT-40 (remember when it creamed anything "European" at LeMans?) or the Ford Shelby Cobra.....both are current production based cars. Your "European" Lotus wouldn't stand a chance against either of these. BTW, speaking of LeMans, who won it several years running before the Audi teams (AKA German technology, and certainly not British junk) of late? Hint....an American car....the Corvette.

Oh, this could go on and on, now that you've brought it up.... why do Airbus A-300 vertical stabilizers snap off, and Boeings do not? Because Airbus stabilizers don't have a forward main spar to resist torsional forces from the rudder. "European", yes it is....yes it certainly is.

Xenophobia....what a joke. We've got SO much to learn from the great Socialist countries of Europe, whose economies and populations might be a little larger than the state of California.


G3LBS....isn't it tea time?


 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N1EY on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
AC5E wrote:
[quote]No, the sea is not rising a millimeter a day, as some computer simulations would have us believe. In fact, if you take the data as a whole, the OBSERVATIONS indicate sea level is either stable, or falling.[/quote]

Certain countries are also rising from the sea floor. One should take note that Ireland is rising in general. The western part of the UK is also rising as well.

N1EY

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by M0WYM on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I think that the fact the we, as a group worldwide, do not consume a vast amount of energy pursuing our hobby is not actually the issue. It is more the attitude that we bring to the hobby will be little different to our approach to life in general.

Reducing our energy consumption in one area of life may lead us to reflect on our consumption in other areas.

It would be interesting to survey QRP operators' approach to life in general. If 10 watts of SSB and a dipole gets me all over over Europe on at least one band most of the time and over to the US sometimes how much do I gain by using 100 watts. At the bottom of the cycle! We don't need a sledgehammer to knock in a pin!

Change is hard for many especially when a way that has worked for decades has to be given up. But there can be satisfaction in devoping effecient ways of achieving what we want.

Maybe we should focus on the efficientcy of our antennas and not on the amps going into our feeders!



 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
by AB9PZ on December 23, 2007

You really need to learn a little about the world in general I think.

Europe is a unified block now, and it has a larger population and bigger economy than the US. They export more and have lower deficits, and their tech sector is rapidly passing the US. As is their automotive industry, their aerospace industry and thier telecoms industry. Their people are better educated, multilingual and far less violent. Less criminal activity in general.

And their money is about to replace the Dollar as the currency of choice worldwide. One middle eastern oil producer has reduced it's Dollar holdings from 85% to 45% just this year. Others are following suit.

Or haven't you been paying much attention between those shouts of "USA #1 USA #1!"?

If you want health care that work, it's Europe you should be looking at. They live longer, are healthier and happier. The best countries in the world to live right now? Not the US. The US is not even in the top 5 in that list.

So it would appear that you do indeed have a lot to learn from Europeans. Might be too late at this point, but you might as well start taking notes now.

Oh, and clean up after yourself. You are stinking up the planet already.

73,

Todd
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by NL7W on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Is WA4Dawg feeling guilty and making up for past high-power HF transgressions? Am I the only one who remembers his Silver Springs days?

BTW, I still love my Alpha; long live Alpha Power!

73.

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Have the Lotus and the "Vett" do ten quartermiles in a row and see which one has no engine, clutch, or driveline left.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
THe (no callsign) beauty who said an Astron 20 draws
60 to 80 watts under no load is drinking boiled transformer pitch.. I have several and with no current draw they are Stone Cold, even though on 24/7. Any device the size of an Astron showing that much no load loss ought to have a transformer and heatsink too hot to touch. THEY ARE NOT. Where does the power go, genius, and, better yet, show me the measurements-- and NOT with a 10 dollar ShadyoRack meter.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
What planet is KV1M on? I've talked to MANY Brits
and aside from beng taxed to death (8.30 us for a gal of gas)there is a healthcare crisis in the UK with most folks on the "National Health" UNABLE to find a dentist and so go without or pay for private treatment.
Whant to join a UK is heaven net ??? G0EVY 3786 most nights (2 element beam you can hear him ok) He has said, more than once, that tradesmen there would LOVE to be able to get their hands on Ford F150's with diesel power. Europe is a wonderful place if you have enough Yankee dollars.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KA4KOE on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Read the LEED handbooks for "green construction". There is a lot of political agenda and "feel good" stuff in those books. For instance, nuclear power is bad in all its forms.

Read the LEED-NC handbook and you'll understand (NC = new construction).

Philip
KA4KOE

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
You're hilarious!

I just got back from an extended assignment and am moving there in 2 weeks, I probably have a better perspective than you do.

As for the US having better health care? Try this on:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_ove_hea_per-health-overall-performance

So where is the US on that chart?

Or this one?:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_acu_car_bed-health-acute-care-beds

Or this?:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_hea_lif_exp_at_bir_yea_tot_pop-expectancy-birth-years-total-population


I would suggest that you also take a good look around and stop yelling "USA #1!" to drown out the unpleasant truths this nation is going to have to face sooner rather than later.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
BTW, having enough Yankee dollars is NOT a problem in the UK.
The exchange rate is 2 for 1, and they get paid better.

Speak of that which you don't know - know not of what you speak.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by M0WYM on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
<QUOTE>What planet is KV1M on? I've talked to MANY Brits
and aside from beng taxed to death (8.30 us for a gal of gas)there is a healthcare crisis in the UK with most folks on the "National Health" UNABLE to find a dentist and so go without or pay for private treatment.
Whant to join a UK is heaven net ??? G0EVY 3786 most nights (2 element beam you can hear him ok) He has said, more than once, that tradesmen there would LOVE to be able to get their hands on Ford F150's with diesel power. Europe is a wonderful place if you have enough Yankee dollars.</QUOTE>

Maybe G0EVY (I don't know him) is in a parallel UK but the last thing the we need is US dollars thank you very much. The £ does us fine :)

And as for the NHS, I can walk in to the local drop in health centre tomorrow morning and get the treatment I need. My wife is American, and one of the wonders of her life (after paying through the nose in the States for medical and dental care) is the British health system. The NHS dental service here is not so hot but our private insurance is a quarter of what she paid in the US and covers ALL non-cosmetic treatment.

We are not taxed to death - that is simply silly. We are nowhere near the highest taxed in Europe. $8.30 for petrol is just about OK and getting cheaper by the day :) Anyway cheap petrol is no measure of a substainable civil society.

I really do not think that a builder's desire for a Ford deisel is a meaningful measure of a country's economic health!


Anyways, seasons greeting to all!


Charlie.

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Yeah, that taxed to death crap is overused.

I got hit at 44% when I worked in NYC.
That is 4% MORE than I will be taxed by the UK.

And I STILL had to have money deducted for health (I consider that a tax) so all in all we can add another 4% for that as well.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W4LGH on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I think I have heard everything now. Green HAM & EGGS.
I certianly believe in "Waste not, want Not!" And I do believe in replanting trees, but Green Hams?

Sounds like a Dr. Suses novel to me!

73 and Merry Christmas!
de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AB9PZ on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
>>>>by KV1M on December 23, 2007
You really need to learn a little about the world in general I think.

Europe is a unified block now, and it has a larger population and bigger economy than the US. They export more and have lower deficits, and their tech sector is rapidly passing the US. As is their automotive industry, their aerospace industry and thier telecoms industry. Their people are better educated, multilingual and far less violent. Less criminal activity in general.

And their money is about to replace the Dollar as the currency of choice worldwide. One middle eastern oil producer has reduced it's Dollar holdings from 85% to 45% just this year. Others are following suit.

Or haven't you been paying much attention between those shouts of "USA #1 USA #1!"?

If you want health care that work, it's Europe you should be looking at. They live longer, are healthier and happier. The best countries in the world to live right now? Not the US. The US is not even in the top 5 in that list.

So it would appear that you do indeed have a lot to learn from Europeans. Might be too late at this point, but you might as well start taking notes now.

Oh, and clean up after yourself. You are stinking up the planet already.

73,

Todd<<<<


Oh, I think I know quite a bit about it, Todd....having lived there for three years and now traveling and spending considerable time there several times a month. You are way, way off if you think it's some great utopia....it is NOT. They are very Socialist societies, and a strong Euro does not infer global power; it only means that we've screwed up over here and we need to devaluate due to some very intricate economic reasons....most of which doesn't have anything to do with some great moves on their part. China's economy blasted past France's and Italy's in the same year (2006), and will be larger than the EU's within 10 years. If you REALLY think it's so much more glorious there, I'd advise living there and letting us all know how you're doing.

Todd, YOU have much to earn.

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by G3LBS on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
'Neither a borrower nor a lender be'
Shakespeare
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by XV2PS on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Ouch ouch,

It was a long time I did not screen eham, but that article is as useless as a fart without smell.

What is a Kw used in full 5 minutes a week?

You better worry about where your system is made. If your rig is made in China, it travels half the world, while when you buy made in the US, you do not only buy next door, you also support your economy.


That green fart is used all the time in way that at the end, nobody will really bother about the real environment concerns.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K3EY on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
AB9PZ ---You are being too damn kind...here's what I think:

Todd…why don’t you take a flying hike and get the hell out of dodge you moron. Illegal people by the thousands some literally dying to get into this country it’s so bad, right Todd? They come faster than your loud asinine mouth spews garbage. Go live with the EU liberal morons. Crawl back into your hole and stay there with all the other freaks since it’s SOOOOOOOO much better. People like you make me sick taking everything this country offers while preaching how bad it is. You’re pathetic and the ONLY problem this country has, is letting your kind stay spreading your poison.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N7YA on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
While you guys argue over which vehicles will last longer...ill just zip on by at a paltry 70 mph in my Japanese truck....purring like a kitten at 205,000+ miles.

Sometimes fancy curves and blistering speed doesnt equate into practicality and dependability. I have some thoughts on whats fueling this dispute...

I just finished reading Hell's Angel by Sonny Barger (the man who started the red and white back in the late 40's), in his book, he said he wishes he would have started riding a Honda first, then all the guys would ride them instead of the unreliable american bikes. He said that many times he was on the side of the road doing emergency repairs on his bike while Japanese bikes zoomed on by...outperforming the HD's, using half the fuel, etc...Granted, the American bikes look a hell of a lot cooler! But being broken down isnt all that cool to me. Maybe Sonny was on to something...and i dont know who is going to go out to Cave Creek and call him a greenie wimp to his face for liking Japanese bikes (he rides a Goldwing now). registered felon or not, the guy knows about bikes and hes a seriously patriotic guy.

I dont buy American vehicles anymore, not because i am a socialist liberal freedom-hater as weve been led to believe anyone who disagrees with current agenda is...but only for the basic fact that Japanese cars are just better. They last longer, they are made with more pride, and god bless the very skilled American autoworker, it used to be a proud tradition, but now all the automakers here are increasingly outsourced and plagued with so much trouble that layoffs and handing out severance packages has become the norm...workers no longer work there for 40 years and retire with the same level of pride that former members of Pattons 3rd army enjoyed. They are shown the door quickly these days, and most have come to expect a severance offer after only a few years on the line...they have the career expectancy of a hockey coach. This is just one industry that is showing its battle scars.

Older American cars are classics for a reason, and Ford, our staple, is struggling to say the least. Our best days are behind us and this country has changed from the highest offices on down to folks on the street, regardless of being in red states or blues states. I said it before and ill say it again, instead of pounding our chests and yelling about us being number one, we should worry about at least staying competitive and providing to our future as a nation, dropping the false front of arrogance and this assumption of manifest destiny that hasnt done us any good in years.

We need eachother more now than ever before as a culture, as a people and as a nation...we certainly dont need to be making enemies out of one another, much less among our allies abroad. Weve been keeping our allies by our side not out of respect and admiration as in the past, but out of business and military neccessity...its shallow and, contrary to what we believe or have been told, it doesnt last forever. We are headed for hard times since our government is splintered and taken over by only 2 parties who do nothing but squabble and block eachother, our nations people are at eachothers throat...if i recall, the last time we viewed one another with such animosity was in the mid 1800's, and we all know what followed.

The best we can hope for is another 1960's, where everyone was angry with everyone else and we were certain of our impending demise, yet we came out of it fairly intact...and got some great music out of the deal too. By no means am i calling for the downfall of our nation, this is my birthplace and my home, im calling for folks to stop arguing amongst one another...divided we fall, its true. My family is historically documented as continuous residents of the North American colonies dating back to the mid-1600's (my direct ancestor convinced William Penn to come to these early colonies and buy a patch of land...he ended up with Pennsylvania), so the well being of my homeland is important to me, and i dont think we are on a good path. In fact, i feel many of our liberties are being diverted under our noses, but i digress.

Once upon a time, this was a great nation in everyones eyes, now we are following the path of the great past culture we were designed after, Rome. The constitution was written for a reason, i fear for its future from liberal left wing do-gooders who think they know whats best for me, and also from right wing, uptight religious lobbyists who, you guessed it...think they know whats best for me. I am all about liberty and freedom as we all are, but most folks forget theres a price for it, if nothing else, it comes with responsibility that is so often overlooked, as well as overshadowed by fluffed up pride and arrogance. When a man weighs 350 lbs and cant spell common words, he forfeits the right to claim to be better than others by default. Of course, theres no way to hold him accountable for his negligence to himself or his country, but theres the responsibility i was mentioning...in order to call yourself great, you must exude greatness. you must prove it, and you must work for it. If you cant be great, then be happy and let others live their lives. That was a principle cornerstone of this nations incorporation.

These are interesting times we are living in, and our nation is in an interesting snapshot in time itself. Just remember, winners prepare to win...they dont just sit in the corner eating doughnuts talking about how they are going to kick ass. All historical accounts of success show this. To summarize, our auto industry's problems are just one of many indications that we need to be looking at the gauges a little better, managing ourselves better and acting more responsibly on a global level. Success starts at home, i wouldnt raise my child with the same care weve been showing our country lately. An example, i am divorced and my son lives with his mom during the week and with me the rest of the time...he is a great kid, interested in many things, is a member of CAP, etc...his mom and i are hypothetically the 2 major political parties in his life, but in order to properly guide him through the growing process, she and i have to come together with openness and his well being in mind, otherwise we fail...regardless of our differences, its important to both of us to raise a healthy young man, your future neighbor as well as a productive member of our society, this is our goal. we cant do that at all if we were constantly at eachothers throat and slandering one another through him, we all know thats a bad idea when we se other parents doing this....then why do we put up with it from our nations "leaders"? Or from ourselves?

If these forums are any indication of our solidarity as a hobby, then we are in trouble anyway as another solo example.

We are pulled from the left and from the right, nobody, and i mean nobody trusts politicians...and we as a nation have broken off into very vocal seperate groups and attached labels to ourselves and to our fellow enemies.

Are we that bored? Moreso, are we that self important? do we need actual military combat in our streets to finally prove to ourselves that we really do need eachother?? How about this, does anyone have any answers that we can all agree on? I sure hope so because i love my country, i will fight for her....but i will always fight for my family first. That is my chosen responsibility. Please, just take a minute to ask yourself if theres anything you can do to make our existence more cohesive, so the patriots that fought for our new nation didnt do so in vain. I could be wrong, but i dont think Jefferson and Washington would be happy with where we are right now as a nation, they would see parallels with the empire they were fighting at the time...it would be the same as Jesus coming back and seeing whats been done in his name, it would bring a tear to their eyes.

I have never taken ham radio so seriously that i would consider any of you less than me, i do this because i enjoy it, it relaxes me and its fun to get into the chase, but i know where my true duties lie.

I wish you all a happy holiday, a prosperous new year and all the positive energy i can send you.

73...Adam, N7YA
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KK7WN on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I would suggest that the best way that Amateurs could go green would be to spend less time on the air and over eating and dispensing methane, etc. While your at it, get rid of the cell phone and reduce noise and RF pollution by speaking only when necessary.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WU7X on December 23, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I have read through the comments given to this post. I am shocked at the huge number of disbelievers, of those who proudly proclaim their independence by leaving their
Belchfire V8's running, those who badmouth the messenger, those who proclaim great knowledge on subjects they have never studied, those who say that this is some sort of "liberal" Al Gore secret plan to steal their rights away from them and get rich in the process. Let me make something perfectly clear; just because you have a ham license doesn't mean you understand science.

I am a professionallicensed geologist. I have over 35 years working as a scientist. I can tell you that the overwhelming majority of real scientists fully believe in global warming and peak oil. They, and I, believe that we are reaching a point of no return. Either we work together to change our ways concerning consumption of natural resources, or we doom our children and grand children to a diminished standard of living.

Yes, we each can make a difference. One thing we as hams can do is leave the linears off, to run minimal levels of power, to conserve our resources to share with those who come after us.

check out the following for a better insight on peak oil for instance, and quit shooting the messengers!

http://novakeo.com/?p=1054&jal_no_js=true&poll_id=10

Dale WU7X
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KA5ROW on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
WA4D Stated:
"Green" fee placed on their amplifier products. (With these levies going to "Green" ham radio activities and education).

So you want a "sin tax" on Ham Radio. I guess for Ham Radio you mean a "Fun Tax" How dare you state that. "There was once a tea party in Boston, in the 1700's over unfair taxation."

I like my Kenwood TL922 A amplifier. I use it a lot. Just because I can. At times I drive it with 25 watts to have a little stronger signal, as to not to bother other people close in frequency, then other times I drive it with 100 Watts to get 1 KW. My choice. And you want to deny that right.

So to make sure the "Green IRS" gets there Money.
Lets Tax: All Tubes and Transistors used for amplification. "This includes audio also"
Lets Tax: All equipment that uses led solder in it's construction.
Lets Tax: All rolls of solder you buy at Radio Shack.
Lets Tax: All Amateur and commercial antennas that have aluminum elements.
Lets Tax: All Coax
Lets Tax: All Plate and filament transformers.
Lets Tax: My QST magazine, My ARRL Hand Book, My Antenna book, My Amplifier Book.

The list goes on and on "Where will it stop"

This way they can "Green tax" your amplifier even if you build it yourself.

Why not put a tax on the Amateur license its self, like $1000 that would cover it all.
HOW DARE YOU
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KC8YLJ on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
VE7ILK - this is entirely inappropriate - My xyl read it & commented " that is ham radio ?"I think you owe all an apology - Herb KC8YLJ
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by VE7ILK on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Herb:

I bet your wife chuckled though.

Woody
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KC8YLJ on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
VE7ILK - not quite - she was quite sickened by it - me too - I'm out of eham as of now - ham radio is for families, so this kind of stuff does not go ok for me - Herb kc8ylj
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
USA #1! USA #1!

BWAAAHAHAHAAAA!

That is why you are on the fast track to 3rd world status. It is also why your ally's don't really like you any more.

Alone and broke, and you cheer for it, what a bunch of morons.

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
AB9PZ, you really shouldn't lie like that.

First it's "I talk to MANY British" now it's "I lived there for 3 years and travel there several times a year."

Which is it? You either talk to them and formed your opinion from that, or you have been there an extended period of time and have experienced it?

I HAVE been there recently, and am moving there in February to take a position at a top financial firm.
What you describe is not what I've heard from the people I work with, nor is it what is being said in the British media.

THEY say the American medical system is broken, and they think Americans for the most part are daft.

What, do you hang out in Bethnal Green when you visit?
That would explain the opinions you have been recieving.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
K3EY, you are such the flag waving idiot.

Sure, thousands of illegal third worlders are just beating down the doors to get here.

But those who's homes are in first world nations, not so much. A lot of them are leaving.

Once again, you clowns choose aweful examples to show how great you think you are.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
PS - I DON'T hate America.

I AM highly disappointed in it and wish its people would get their act together. If you don't it will not be good for this nation.

Until they do, I am going to a place of sanity and safety with my family. Some place where my taxes don't fund war and torture.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K3EY on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Todd---glad you're leaving, please stay there.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
No problem, with pinheads like you here why would I ever want to come back?
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
You could learn how to spell diesel there Charlie.
BTW famous Rock singer S. Bassey recently said that she doesn't recognize the UK anymore because she doesn't hear much english she can understand. And look, don't BS me the healthcare problem in the UK is real. Plenty of info on Google about it. I also here
the libs have proposed a NEW tax, this time on PCs, because of their "Carbon footprint". Also note that the second most popular name for newborn boys in the UK this year was Islamic. Enjoy your "cheap" $8.30 US
gas Charlie and don't let the screen door hit you.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I'd bet there is more info on Google about US health care problems. Care to compare?
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
CHarlie..just googled a New York Times article
indicating your countrymen have resorted to DO IT YOURSELF dental work. Better bring a Dremmel there Charlie.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Charlie m' boy, if you love the Muslum republic of
England so much why are telling people on QRZ you are moving to Belgium? At least they biuld some decent cars there .. Volvos and Mitsi"s. What do ya figure gas costs there? Less than 8.50 I hope.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by M0WYM on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
K1DA said, "CHarlie..just googled a New York Times articleindicating your countrymen have resorted to DO IT YOURSELF dental work. Better bring a Dremmel there Charlie."

That post says more about the NYT and you than is does about reality!

K1Da also said, "Charlie m' boy, if you love the Muslum republic of England so much why are telling people on QRZ you are moving to Belgium?"

As it's Christmas I will be kind and assume you have been at the mind bending stuff. Nothing on my QRZ,com entry about Belgium. Again I fear we have to suspect your grip on reality.

The same K1DA quotes Shirley Bassey (!) as some kind of authority on England - give us a break for goodness sake.

As for Google - a great search engine but it only reports what others have written and the unaware can end up perusing their own watzits.

As I live in England, have done all my life and don't have a mind cluttered with bigoted nonsense, it is fair to say that I know some what more about my own country than you and your limited Google search.

Anyway, happy Christmas, peace and goodwill to all men :)

 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by VA3IMO on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I have two reactions, on to the original article and one to the subsequent comments.

On the original article: I share the author's concern about the impact of human activity on the environment. Right now, however, there's no easy way to measure the impact of any particular activity in environmental terms, making intelligent choice difficult. For my money, the most compelling solution is to institute a carbon tax, so that individuals would see prices in the market which reflected environmental costs.

On the comments to the article: I was astounded, though maybe not entirely surprised, by the state of denial about global warming expressed in the comments. I hope that nobody takes this as representative of the state of opinion among hams worldwide.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
VA3IMO,

Why would you be astonished at that given the near universal denial of the current US status being shown by the same people?

The current theme seems to be if it is bad news we will just shout it down and then it will go away and everything will be just fine.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
On this Christmas eve I remind the assorted posters that no one here took a shot at the UK UNTIL several self -important members of the British liberal elite began their hectoring about our lifestyle and so I say to BOTH of you , whose whinning is identical to the point I can't tell you apart -- thanks for the good wishes
and remember It wasn't YOU who kept US from growing up German.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
M0 whoever you are you don't have a mind cluttered with anything... at all.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Merry Christmas K1DA,

And let me remind you the it was not YOU who fought Nazi Germany either.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
What I get a kick out of is the way the "global warming" dipwads IGNORE 400 well respected scientists who disagree, misquote them, or simply slander them, JUST IGNORE THEM, and then attack US for taking their crowd with a grain of salt. Please note this hectoring is done by people like AL Gore who couldn't find Hydrogen on a table of elements.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Unlike you, VM, I have a CIB, something you wouldn't even understand.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
As for fighting the germans, do you have a better excuse than I, other than clearly lacking the onions?
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Could it be that there are tens if not hundreds of thousand other scientists who say it IS happening?

Here, look at this:
http://inel.wordpress.com/2007/05/07/global-warming-hoax-myth-lies-whats-the-truth/

I bet I can find quite a few people who think the world is flat as well.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Oh, I do know what that means.
I did my time in hell.

So you got a CIB, so what. That make you an expert on global warming and health care in the UK?
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"by K1DA on December 24, 2007:
As for fighting the germans, do you have a better excuse than I, other than clearly lacking the onions?"

What, like being born in 1965?
Same excuse as you OM.
Just don't expect to get away with taking credit for doing so, infered or otherwise, without someone (like me) saying something about it.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"by K1DA on December 24, 2007
What I get a kick out of is the way the "global warming" dipwads IGNORE 400 well respected scientists who disagree, misquote them, or simply slander them, JUST IGNORE THEM, and then attack US for taking their crowd with a grain of salt. Please note this hectoring is done by people like AL Gore who couldn't find Hydrogen on a table of elements."

How presumptuous of you.

I build laser's for fun. Big 100w plus laser's. Not of the light show variety.
I am a Sr Unix Admin (self taught no less) for top tier financial institutions.
I graduated in the top 5% of my state from High School.

I think I can not only find Hydrogen on the "Periodic Table" but as you can see I even know what it is called.

I'd bet so can the others you are trying to slander as well.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
My apologies.

Sometimes I get a little strong when responding to threads like this. I tend not to suffer ignorance lightly.

Happy holidays everyone!

73

Todd
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"Your time in hell??? How brave of you, where? BTW in both British and US law the word "slander" applies to statements, not writings. Now while I would enjoy a good discussion with you face to face, I have not "slandered" you yet.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
And how clever of you to make out of "high school".
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Being somewhat familiar with the banking industry
I know, for example, that anyone making it past the rank of "teller" becomes at least a vice president, so I am VERY impressed with yout title.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
No, it would be libel. You are quite correct.

And clever? No. But my standing is one to be proud of. Most likely well beyond yours at the state level.
Since I instead served my country as a US Marine I did not go to college, and found that my skills with computers brought far more income as is without having to pursue a formal degree.

How clever of you to try to use that as a put down.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I don't work for banks, I work for investment firms.
State Street Corporation, Fidelity Capital Investments, BNP Paribas and the like.

And I work on the big iron for them, Sun E10k, F15k and the like. Not that you'd even know what I'm talking about.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
And.. what about your being a high school graduate who "plays with lasers" makes you think anyone should listen to your bloviation about global warming as opposed to the 400 scientists who disagree.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I don't know, why would I listen to you talking about 400 scientists as proof that it's bogus when another 5000 say it's for real?

As for the rest of it, it establishes I'm not an uneducated ignorant moron drifting along in the world on past education and faded glories.

That is what you were trying to portray those who disagreed with you as wasn't it?
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Toddyboy, Sun Micro, good stock, own a few shares. As I recall Google owns buildings full of the stuff.
So ah where and when did you here the faint rattle of musketry over yon hill?
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
You're right about the uneducated moron part.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Now Charles, don't be so disingenuous!
I NEVER claimed to have been in battle like you, I just told you I know what a CIB is and where I gained that knowledge.

And if all you know about Sun is that Google uses it (and you'd be wrong by the way to imply that it is the majority of their equipment) and what it's stock is doing then you obviously didn't understand what I told you about my career.

As for uneducated? I think a mirror would be a better place to go looking for that.

This is pretty boring, you are not much of a challenge and putting you down is getting rather tedious.

I'll be off then, if ever I get homesick while abroad I'll just pop in and look for you, EY and PZ.
That should be enough to cure me of that.

Happy holidays,

Todd

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
"by K1DA on December 24, 2007:
You're right about the uneducated moron part."

Why thank you Charles! At least you acknowledge that I am not the uneducated moron you tried to paint me as!
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K1DA on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Hey Toddy, is that how they taught you science in high school?? Theory with the most votes wins? Ya know both Newton and Einstein were pretty lonely for a while and the "Flat Earth" got a lot of votes. Don't dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back 'cause you think you know more about Sun than I do, WE hire people to worry about that stuff for us and the folks who do are well below my pay grade.
See you in (or in your case under) the pileups.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
" by K1DA on December 24, 2007:
Hey Toddy, is that how they taught you science in high school?? Theory with the most votes wins? Ya know both Newton and Einstein were pretty lonely for a while and the "Flat Earth" got a lot of votes. Don't dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back 'cause you think you know more about Sun than I do, WE hire people to worry about that stuff for us and the folks who do are well below my pay grade.
See you in (or in your case under) the pileups."

Oh Charlie! You sound just like a little kid! Did I hurt you?

I seriously doubt your pay grade claims, you have done or said nothing that leads me to believe you.
In fact the quickness with which you decided to toss out the CIB to dazzle me instead of say, your degree or social status (as my boss's, and their boss's, and their boss's boss would have done. Oh, that puts me 4 levels from the owner/CEO! Imagine that!) says otherwise.
Then suddenly you are this top level executive (who would -know- that I am only a couple of pay grades lower, not "well below" by the way, because I give reports to senior management in our weekly meetings), nice promotion you just gave yourself! This just shows that you like PZ before you are just trying to play catch up by tossing out as much BS as you think I'll swallow.

Science by vote, that's rich of you! How unoriginal!
And ignorant I might add.
Einstein was never alone Chuck, his theory was readily accepted. I don't know where you got the idea that he was ridiculed and dismissed as a crackpot, it certainly didn't happen that way in any of the college texts and biographies that I've read.

It would seem I know a lot more than you about a great many subjects Chuckster. Keep right on tossing out the BS though, someone is bound to eat some.

73,

Todd
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
And by readily accepted I mean within 8 years after his publishing the Theory of General Relativity in 1905.

In 1908 man by the name of Jean Perrin was able to prove Brownian particles obeyed Boltzmann's equipartition of energy theorem just like gas molecules did.

In further experiments over the following five years, Perrin produced a wealth of measurements that could not be contested. Soon enough even Ostwald - the arch sceptic - conceded that Einstein's theory, combined with Perrin's experiments, proved the case. It was official: atoms were real.

Total time around 8 years for total acceptance by even the sceptics. I would call that readily accepted by any scientific standard.

(Sorry, can't let Chuckles play the little word games I know he wants to play)
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KA1OS on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
K7CU wrote: "The Global Warming "threat" is nothing more than junk science. 30 years ago these same folks and magazines were in a panic about global cooling."

The "cooling" idea of a few decades ago was a very speculative proposal from a small number of scientists. It was hyped by the press, which is probably what most people perceived, but generally had little traction in the community of climate scientists because the data and models didn't support it. In contrast, global warming is deeply studied. Granted, the models can always stand more refinement but it seems very well established that global temperatures are rising at significant rates. There is some disagreement about the extent to which human activities contribute but the research consensus is strong that there is some contribution. Those here who would favor 'solar variation' as an alternate driver behind global warming should at least acknowledge that the supporting models and data for that appear to be far from conclusive. There are probably several factors at work; some that we can't change but perhaps others that we can. The relative contributions will hopefully be nailed down the next few years.


PS: Several people mentioned the ozone hole: Actually the problem was not just the hole in the Antarctic but the general depletion of ozone in the stratosphere. Ozone loss in the upper atmosphere was observed well before the 'ozone hole' was discovered. The chemical and atmospheric models & data for ozone depletion are on pretty firm scientific ground. It appears that CFC elimination is reducing the rate of ozone loss. Reports suggest that ozone levels seem on track to being restored within this century, possibly by 2065.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Oh, and a quick correction, that was the Special Theory of Relativity, the GTR was published in 1915. It was IMMEDIATELY accepted.

 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W9NVN on December 24, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Back to the thread!Mike,I have a rig and legal limit amp for each band 160-10 meters,plus 6 and 2 meters!!Therefore when I change bands I change chairs!! In the SF bay area Iam up against tens of thousands of watts of power and antennas much larger than mine!!!I think you are going in the wrong direction, we need a power increase,say3kw input or 6 kw input!!You can even make a rule that all amps be painted green!!!Since we are far away from the ONE MEGAWATT figure iam sure everyone would like to experiment with 73,W9NVN(The sound of Power)
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by G3LBS on December 25, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
It's really quite difficult for you to think about the futures of your grand-children and great-grandchildren isn't it? It's much easier to wallow in nostalgia and deny your mortality.
Similarly you don't like Socialism because it means giving away something to people less fortunate than yourselves. Some of the meanest people I know have told me they were Socialists.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N4XYC on December 25, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
This thing is getting more insane everyday. Read this from www.frontpagemag.com
The Global Warming Suicide Cult
By Don Feder
GrassTopsUSA.com | Wednesday, December 19, 2007

The Global Warming movement has been compared to a religion -- albeit one without God, but with a vision of sin and repentance, damnation and salvation.

Not quite.

Real religion is about improving the human condition by encouraging moral conduct in obedience to the will of God. The proponents of Global Warming are creating a suicide cult, which -- if followed to its logical conclusion -- will lead to human extinction.

Forget the Kyoto Treaty. Forget the Luddite Lieberman-Warner bill to cut so-called greenhouse gas emissions by 70% by 2050, which would cost the U.S. an estimated $1 trillion and result in the loss of 3.4 million jobs. That's just the beginning.

Ultimately, the Global Warming crusade is a frontal assault on procreation, the family and the future of mankind.

In the December 9th edition of Medical Journal of Australia, Professor Barry Walters urges a one-time "baby levy" of $5,000, followed by an annual tax of $800 per child, on Australian families with more than two children.

"Every newborn baby in Australia represents a potent source of greenhouse gas emissions for an average of 80 years, not simply by breathing but by the profligate consumption of resources typical of our society," writes Walters, who calls childbearing "greenhouse unfriendly behavior."

Walters will have to look hard for families to tax. Australia's fertility rate (the number of children the average woman has) is 1.75 -- well below replacement level (2.1) and less than half of what it was in 1960 (3.6).

Angela Conway of the Australian Family Association thinks Walters should pay his own gas tax. "I think self-important professors with silly ideas should have to pay carbon tax for all the hot air they create," Conway says.

Beyond the fiscal flogging to be administered to families who stubbornly continue to procreate, Walters says he wants the Australian government to consider population control measures like China's, with its one-child-per-family policy backed by draconian penalties, sterilization and forced abortions.

In Britain, a group called The Optimum Population Trust has the same agenda. The Trust is horrified by a brief blip in the U.K. birthrate -- up from 1.8 in 2005 to 1.87 in 2006.

It notes that the lifetime energy consumption, or "carbon footprint," of a child born in Britain today is the equivalent of 620 roundtrip, trans-Atlantic flights. The Trust urges government coercion for Brits who don't follow the Planned Parenthood model.

Global Warming-ists see people only as energy consumers (or pollution-generators), never as potential creators -- of say a more efficient light bulb or engine, or a new way to clean the environment.

The greenhouse-gas gang is on a population-control kick.

"Human population growth is the paramount environmental issue," says Ric Oberlink, a spokesman for the ominous-sounding Californians for Population Stabilization. "Global warming is a very serious problem, but it is a subset of the overpopulation problem."

Ric (dropping the consonant is his contribution to conservation) claims the problem isn't just too many people, but too many Americans, who, by our evil nature, will consume too much energy over the course of our lives. Americans are "by far the most voracious consumers and the greatest producers of greenhouse gases per capita of any nation on earth," Ric remarks.

That America has spent the past century showering prosperity on the rest of the world (not to mention defeating the twin totalitarian horrors of the 20th century) is irrelevant to Ric. It's all about our voracious consumption and great production.

"One solution to the crisis (a hot globe) is for people to stop having so many babies," says a March 14th posting by Dave Johnson at that fount of idiocy, The Huffington Post. "We've already used up the fisheries. The cattle being raised to feed so many meat-eaters is as big a problem as the cars we're all driving." So the solution is to stop having babies and become bicycle-riding vegans.

"The population explosion has severely disturbed the ecological relationships between human beings and the environment," the Sierra Club warns. "In recognition of the growing magnitude of this conservation issue, the Sierra Club supports a greatly increased program of education on the need for population control." The left is really into control.

Global Warming fanaticism seems to lend itself to self-loathing. In 1989, David Graber, then a biologist with the National Park Service, was quoted in the Los Angeles Times observing: "Human happiness and certainly human fecundity are not as important as a wild and healthy planet. I know social scientists who remind me that people are part of nature, but it isn't true... We have become a plague upon ourselves and upon Earth. Until such time as homo sapiens should decide to rejoin nature (by wearing natural fibers and living in trees?) some of us can only hope for the right virus to come along."

And they call them misanthropes.

Is the right plague what Jacques Cousteau had in mind, when he wrote in 1991: "In order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but its just as bad not to say it." A speaker at Gorbachev's 1996 State of the World Forum in San Francisco called for cutting the global population by 90%. He did not specify the method.

Most of the Global Warming-ists are content to make preposterous predictions and induce panic, while leaving their ultimate agenda unstated.

Thus, in accepting his politically correct Nobel Peace prize, Al Gore (the Herman Munster of Global Warming) declared that, "We have begun to wage war on the Earth itself." Gore predicts that our trashing of the ozone layer could cause sea levels to rise by 20 feet in this century. Would that be before or after New York City is covered by a glacier, a la "The Day After Tomorrow"?

In a column in Sunday's New York Times ("It's Too Late for Later") Thomas L. Friedman squawks: "The fact that global warming is now having such an observable effect on pillars of our ecosystem -- like the frozen sea ice within the Arctic Circle, which a new study (conveniently, unnamed) says could disappear entirely during summers by 2040 -- is certainly one big factor (in the change of 'global consciousness') . But the other is the voracious power of today's global economy, which has created a situation in which the world is not just getting hot, it's getting raped." Look at the bright side: At least when Friedman is babbling about the environment, he's not blathering about the Middle East.

The doomsayers notwithstanding, Global Warming is not an observable phenomenon, which is why hysteria is an essential part of the sales pitch. I write this while gazing out the window of my New England home at 12 inches of snow and ice -- in mid-December, for God's sake.

As a group of scientists reported in a study published in last week's online edition of the International Journal of Climatology, over the past three decades, the forecasts of computer-generated climate change models (which warming alarmists rely on) don't correlate with actual, measurable data from weather balloons and orbiting satellites.

But that's just the tip of the Arctic ice cap (which, by the way, is not shrinking).


According to Brazil's MetSul Weather Center, this year, the Arctic ice cap is within 1% of the winter norm, and winter has just begun. Ice on the southern polar ice cap has grown substantially, compared to last year.

Australian Cardinal George Pell, Archbishop of Sydney, notes that the atmospheric temperature of Mars has risen by 0.5 degrees Celsius. If only Martians would stop having so many kids with huge carbon footprints and start riding bicycles.

Hurricane expert William Gray of Colorado State University believes the Earth will start to cool within 10 years. Neil Frank, a former director of the National Hurricane Center, calls Global Warming "a hoax."

Richard Lindzen, a professor of meteorology at MIT, points out that Europe was far warmer in the Middle Ages then it is today. But the 17th century was much colder. (Then, it wasn't unusual for the Thames to freeze over in the winter.) In other words -- please pay attention, Albert -- the Earth goes through periodic cycles of warming and cooling, completely unrelated to carbon emissions.

There are now an estimated 22,000 polar bears, compared to 5,000 60 years ago. Apparently, the creatures enjoy the effects of Global Warming on their environment -- witness their predilection for sunglasses and Hawaiian shirts.

The temperature in Greenland is lower now then it was in 1940.

A thousand years ago, Viking settlers were growing crops in Greenland, which really was green. Sadly, Sven and Inga began driving SUVs and burning fossil fuels to run their 11th century factories. Ja, by jimmeny, the rest is history.

Reid Bryson, professor emeritus at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, considered the father of scientific climatology, explains: "We've been coming out of a Little Ice Age for 300 years. We have not been making very much carbon dioxide for 300 years."

From what we know about climate change over the past 12,000 years (based on historical accounts and data like growth rings on trees) the Earth's warming and cooling cycles exactly coincide with the sun's magnetic activity.

How about that scientific consensus in favor of man-made Global Warming, touted by Gore and company? It's a myth. There are plenty of scientists with the courage to call it a fraud -- the 21st century equivalent of the Piltdown Man. Others are silenced by intimidation. Scientists who are willing to go along to get along get tenure, research assistants, grants and peer recognition.

As Lindzen explains, "Scientists who dissent from the alarmism have seen their funds disappear, their work derided, and themselves labeled as industry stooges." The invective is vicious. Lindzen: "I can tolerate being called a skeptic because all scientists should be skeptics, but then they started calling us deniers, with all of the connotations of the Holocaust (deniers). That is an obscenity."


Lindzen is one of those who compares the dogma of Global Warming to a religion. "Do you believe in global warming? That is a religious question. So is the second part: Are you a skeptic or a believer?"

The professor is mistaken. Global Warming is a religion only in the sense that Jim Jones' People's Temple and the Heaven's Gate were religions.

In its more extreme variation, Global Warming is a suicide cult whose prophets and priests warm to the idea of the mass extinction of humanity.

While many warming alarmists are content to repeal the industrial revolution, and others favor the end of civilization through gradual de-population (worldwide, fertility rates have declined by 50% in the past half-century, and still they carry on about over-population), others are more ambitious.

Underlying the left's agenda has always been a hatred of humanity. Enlightenment philosophers hated mankind because our nature wouldn't conform to their utopian ideals.

Marxists hated us because we were selfish beasts who stupidly refused to embrace scientific socialism. Ah, the misuses of science.

An earlier generation of ecologists hated us for polluting, for despoiling virgin wilderness with skyscrapers and shopping malls, for not allowing them to contemplate pristine nature from their vacation homes.

Animal rights activists hate us for dominating other species.

And Global-Warming-ists hate us for having children, not driving hybrid cars, destroying the ozone layer with CO2 emissions, making life miserable for the penguins and polar bears, and, eventually -- according to their nightmare scenarios -- making the Earth uninhabitable.

Hence, the inevitable conclusion: The world would be better off with all of us dead.


"Given the total, absolute disappearance of Homo sapiens, then not only would the Earth's community of Life continue to exist, but in all probability, its well-being enhanced. Our presence in short is not needed," Paul Taylor in "Respect for Nature, A Theory of Environmental Ethics."

"We have no problem in principle with humans reducing their numbers by killing one another. It's an excellent way of making humans extinct," a spokes-creature for the Gaia Liberation Front.

"Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs," John Davis, editor of the journal Earth First.

In the book "The World Without Us," Alan Weisman celebrates what he sees as the inevitable extinction of humanity, as vine and branch, deer and bear, reclaim our cities.

There's even a Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, which describes itself as "the humanitarian alternative to human disasters." VHEMT explains that "the hopeful alternative to the extinction of millions of species of plants and animals is the voluntary extinction of one species: Homo sapiens... us."
Continuing with this grotesquely morbid line of thought: "When every human chooses to stop breeding, Earth's biosphere will be allowed to return to its former glory, and all remaining creatures will be free to live, die, evolve... and will perhaps pass away, as so many of Nature's 'experiments' have done throughout the eons." Is that why liberals seem to be disappearing?

The let's-all-die-for the-planet movement may be the fringe of Global Warming. But their conclusion is the logical expression of its ethos. Why settle for the gradual extinction of humanity through below-replacement birthrates and deindustrialization when we can accomplish the same thing in a generation? (For other Global Warming-ists, their death wish is more subconscious.)

But rather than having the decency to just kill themselves, they need to make a statement -- like the poor bastards who go to a mall with a high-powered rifle to see how many innocent bystanders they can take with them.

If you see Al Gore in a shopping center with what looks like a semi-automatic -- or at a podium handing out Kool-Aid -- run.

This column originally appeared on GrassTopsUSA.com and appears here with the author's permission.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K8QV on December 25, 2007 Mail this to a friend!

N4XYC should be nominated for the peace prize. Unfortunately, thinking, research and common sense are no longer appreciated attributes.

Thanks for clearly stating the voice of reason.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KV1M on December 25, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
XYC,
That piece you spammed is pretty damned foil head even for this crowd of tin tops.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by G3LBS on December 25, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
As I see it, the ham population is already thinning out to reduce pressure on the oil and food supply. May I suggest a return to cannibalism as the solution for the rest?
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by W7MJM on December 25, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Instead of hurling insults at the author and making light of the problem of global warming, why don't we respond in the best tradition of the amateur radio service; with politeness, respect and attention to scientific research.

Global warming is a significant problem. There is no single solution to it, but if each of us does something to address the problem, we can begin to make progress.

Some may choose to conserve by running lower power. Some may choose to install solar panels or wind turbines, to reduce reliance on non-renewable sources of energy that contribute to CO2 emission. Others may use bio-fuels, at home or in their vehicles, to reduce their "carbon footprint."

Which path you choose is up to you. Or you can choose to disagree and make a rational case for your position. But let us not make fun of those who write about serious issues and who give honest suggestions for addressing those issues.

73 and Happy Holidays to all,
Martin
 
The *Real* Cause of Global Warming  
by N2EY on December 25, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
It's the decline in the number of pirates. As
pirates decline, the earth warms.

http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

This and much more at:

http://www.venganza.org/

Ramen & 73 de Jim, N2EY
 
The *Real* Cause of Global Warming  
by N2EY on December 25, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
It's the decline in the number of pirates. As
pirates decline, the earth warms.

http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

This and much more at:

http://www.venganza.org/

Ramen & 73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: The *Real* Cause of Global Warming  
by NE3U on December 25, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Which path you choose is up to you. Or you can choose to disagree and make a rational case for your position. But let us not make fun of those who write about serious issues and who give honest suggestions for addressing those issues.

73 and Happy Holidays to all,
Martin
------------------------------------------------


BUT when people write about their savior and the path to heaven, which is a belief just like the dire climate change craze is, well that's out of line.

You believe what you like, me I'll keep doing what I have always done while you worry yourself to death over someone’s fantasy religion that took a fallen world by their lost souls.

Look on me as foolish and I’ll look on you with pity and sadness. I know my destiny and I am secure in it. This world’s problems are not mine and to make that fact otherwise is the enemy’s snare.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by M0WYM on December 25, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
<QUOTE>It's really quite difficult for you to think about the futures of your grand-children and great-grandchildren isn't it? It's much easier to wallow in nostalgia and deny your mortality. Similarly you don't like Socialism because it means giving away something to people less fortunate than yourselves. Some of the meanest people I know have told me they were Socialists.</UNQUOTE>

What scares me about some of the respondents to this thread is their belief that being a decent tolerant human with one's mind open makes one a socialist. Calling into question intolerant right wing values leads one to be called anti-American. Then someone has the insensitivity to lecture us on the Second World war. That would be the John Wayne/Saving Private Ryan school of history I assume.

The idea that because 400 "scientists" (we are not told how they qualify as such) are right when their ideas conflict with most of the world's relevant scientists. The latter acknowledge that there is on-going climate change. Following our gut feelings and prejudices is no substitute for a scientific concenus!

""The evidence for warming having happened on the planet is unequivocal," said U.S. government scientist Susan Solomon, who also is a member of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

"We can see that in rising air temperatures, we can see it in changes in snow cover in the Northern Hemisphere. We can see it in global sea rise. It's unequivocal," she said."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/02/02/climate.change.report/


In the interest of conserving energy (mine) I am giving up on this thread and going back to amateur radio :)


Charlie.

 
RE: The *Real* Cause of Global Warming  
by KV1M on December 25, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I see a lot of people claiming global warming is a "belief" like religion. Some have even called it a religion outright.

It is not.

There are many significant differences.
Global warming has real world data to back it up, verifiable and repeatable experimentation by which to gather that data and proven methods of analysis to interpret it. It also has peer review and verification in place to keep the wild claims at bay.

Religion has none of these mechanisms in place, and would not survive the addition of them to it's systems.

Global warming theory is NOT a belief, it is a best practices interpretation of the available data and will only become more accurate as a model as more data is gathered and added to the overall system.
In this respect it is not dogmatic.
Global warming theory does not require faith, the data is real and available for all to verify.

Religion on the other hand is dogmatic in it tenets.
It is rigid and static in it unfounded proclamations, only making as few modifications as necessary to make sure that it is not too anachronistic as to be openly preposterous and as a result driving away paying customers. Because it has no data or evidence to back it faith is required of it's adherents.

One is science, based on available data, verification and analysis methodology.

The other is superstition requiring no more than unfounded faith on the word of a single unverified and unverifiable source.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KB1OOX on December 25, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
dose this mean that i will haft to paint my hf rig green??? i like the way my kenwood looks.. opps i got to go my xwl need's to use the power to run the dryer and i have my amp plug into to the socket.. 73. phil.kb1oox
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KA5ROW on December 25, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
To: KB1OOX

Dose this mean that I will haft to paint my HF rig green???
Yes it Does.
I guess I will paint my Kenwoods green too, But I just really like that Kenwood gray.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KA5ROW on December 25, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
To: VE7ILK
You are just the kind of person that is not welcome in the ham community.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KY1V on December 25, 2007 Mail this to a friend!

I am all about green...and I highly recommend you consider it too.

KY1V's Green Data Center Policy:

The more power consuming devices we add to the data center the more green we make.

We are definitely pro green!

Now, can I afford just one more Acom 2000A?

David ~ KY1V

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N7YA on December 25, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Wow.....all i can say is...wow.

I fear that we are going to demise as a nation because we flat out hate one another...dont think so?? go watch a TV show, we cant seem to get enough "reality" drama/crap, its all thats on. We still have whole communities who dont want to see black folks out after dark, we have divided ourselves on national tv into red states and blue states, we hate eachothers music, clothes, hobbies...we are a nation that COULD be great, but WE...US...we americans are rotting it from the inside out. and not one of you believes it because you still have it in your thick heads that the other side will fall flat on their faces and you will get the savory chance to stand there laughing at them...United States...my ass!

That VE7's childish fart comments are less harmful than what you guys are doing to us. Notice how most of the DX users of this website sit by and hold their comments? they know whats coming...the very same thing THEY went through hundreds of years before us. They have gone through this stuff already...but we know best, our young teenager of a nation. we are acting just like a bunch of punk ass teenagers having a drink for the first time. We know everything...do you really believe that? do you think that if you relax and try to understand your fellow countrymans point of view that you will be considered weak? will you disappoint your hardline dad who used to beat you when you were 3 for crying when you scraped your knee? What the hell is wrong with you guys? Where did all this anger come from?

I am willing to bet most of you know exactly how much the rest of the world respected us after WWII...do you think we can just assume they will always respect us and want to do business with us when we act this irresponsibly at home towards our own people? Do any of you actually think we dont have to WORK to EARN what we think we deserve?? Sure, to hell with what those damn foriegners think, they are a bunch of liberals or whatever, right? Dont think for a second that they wont take their business elsewhere, or move in and set up shop...our complete lack of attention to our social sense is inviting trouble to say the least.

If this is your mentality, then no wonder our kids are so fat, lazy and ill educated...they carry over their parents manifest destiny ideology. I refuse this!

Arrogance = downfall

I love my country, i love my homeland...it is beautiful and there is no other place like it, but i am willing to bet we have trouble ahead...every empire that has fallen looked strangely like we do right now. If your pride refuses to believe it, then go read some history books. I know for a fact you will continue to argue and accuse...nothing i can do to stop that.

We are a wounded nation and the wolves are closer than you think. You bunch of old dogs wont listen anyway bacause nobody can tell you a thing.

...so proud.

73...Adam, N7YA
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KC8YLJ on December 26, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
VE7ILK - I thought the moderator got rid of you yesterday - I'll see what i can do again today - kc8ylj
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WA1ZFY on December 26, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
The way to reduce our carbon footprint is to wait for the every-500-years solar pulse to go away. Then we will all have little tiny feets.

Steve
WA1ZFY
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WR8D on December 26, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Ref VE6CNU: another thought.

Why are we forced to pay these high energy costs when right now we have alternative energy sources available and they're being surpressed worldwide?

Those in power are on the oil train. It's easy filthy money for them.

At one of the biggest chemical plants in Wv near Kenova Wv there used to be a sign beside the interstate one could see almost for a mile as you drove toward it. Huge billboard that said...as you read this sign and in the same amount of time that it takes you to read it, we will have made enough gas to fuel your family car for one whole year. Going 70 mph in that straight away didn't take you very long to see that sign and pass it by. Practically in the blink of an eye enough gas is made for a whole years worth of driving for one family car. Imagine the volume produced in a whole days worth of production at just that one plant. Imagine all the plants just here stateside and the volume of gas produced in just one days production just stateside alone.

There are no shortages just dishonest people making billions of dollars in profits yearly from the rest of us worldwide.

Those in control worldwide are getting really nasty rich on this. When is enough enough. 30 billion in under three months for just "one" little oil company in profit is shameful. Look what they did with the totally electric car....gone oh but we got a "gas" electric in its place.

It would be really nice for all of us to do things that would help us all worldwide instead of coming up with ways to kill each other better and faster. Black ops surpress these alternative energy methods while we're at the mercy of the oil politicians and stockholders world wide.

The earth has always gone through these cycles, now though there are those like old Al that invented the internet flying all over the world in his private jet yelling the sky is falling. It's just another avenue for those like him to make more money. I'll never look at the nobel peace organization in the same way ever again after them giving that fruit cake the nobel prise, what hypocrisy.

They keep coming up too with excuses to raise the price of oil which will increase the price at the pump. Just recently they thought another storm was going to hit the gulf...the price at the pump went up at mention of the storms which did no harm there this time...but the price stayed up. Just recently the Arabs cut production to keep the price high at the pump. This is all just the rape of the rest of us by those in control.

This world needs a restart from scratch.

You know even at that thought those in power here have little places underground to hord up gold and crude oil and all their ass kissers. Heck our whole government will be moved to safety. When the smoke clears they'll all come out of the cracks and start it all over again. We deserve exactly what we're getting at this point in time due to the simple fact we sat back and let them do this to the rest of us worldwide.

My two cents:

--... ...-- WR8D
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AH6LE on December 26, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I can't believe anyone falls for this. Global warming - caused by humans - is a myth. I can go into the details as to why I believe this but global warming is nothing more than yet another anti-American, socialist, globalist scheme to extort money from the world's rich countries.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by K2WH on December 26, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
You sir are my hero.

K2WH
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AH6LE on December 26, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Quite honestly, I can refute Al Gore and the rest of the global warming religious fanatics with 3 simple sentences.

I may yet post them <g>
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AE5BN on December 26, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Global Warming is a farce based on junk science. The reason is money.
 
Green Hams ...and Eggs..Global Warming  
by W4LGH on December 26, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Yes sir..I ahev to agree, Global warming is yet another way the government is trying to control us. Everything we make or do on this earth ,came from this earth, and it will given enough time, go back to the earth. Now again, I am not advocating wasting resources. I do not believe in waste, but if you are using it, so be it.

When I built this house, they dropped off a recycle basket, so I figured I would give it a try. The first week, they picked out what they wanted, and left the rest. Now what kind of recycling was that? So I gave it up. The hell with them.

Same applies to HAm radio, if I want to run my AMP I will! I love my old boatanchors, which probably waste more energy than my newer equipment, but then how much is it really on?

Anyway, I personally don't think Ham radio needs to worry about being GREEN!

73 de W4LGH - ALan
http://www.w4lgh.com

Happy New Year!!
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by M0AFJ on December 27, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Its been interesting to read this thread, we do have problems in the UK, the weather is changing, see what happened over here last summer, we also have changes to our flora and fauna, but the most interesting to me is the attitude of the majority of the posts here, I have never seen such aggressive and jingoistic messages of hate, having traveled extensively through the States I have never experienced attitudes like I have seen on here.
Are these feelings common in the US Ham fraternity?, if so God help the hobby which I was always told represented tolerance of other peoples views and cultures.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KF7CG on December 27, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
The problem with the global warming scare is in separating that over which we have control and responsibility from that over which we have little or no control. Then comes the problem of how do we prevent the additon of more.

Most of the planets in the solar system are experiencing some degree of global warming if one follows the panetary astronomy news.

If one follows geological reviews and does a little math it soon comes to light that Yellowstone National Park with its very high emissions of sulfur oxides and carbon dioxide from the enumerable geysers, fumaroles, hot springs, mud pots, and other thermal features contributes significant quantities of greenhouse gases to the overall mix. Combine this with all the volcanic sources and you have even more to contend with.

Add all the cattle, deer, elk, bison, moose, reindeer, burros, horses, llama, and other large herbivores to the mix as generators of large quantities of methane, co2 and other greenhouse gasses and you have a very large swamping source to mask all of what man does.

What is to say that our global preservation of large herbivores is not the cause of global warming it occured about the sametime as the widespread use of the internal combustion engine and the like.

By the way some of the 400 that went against the "consensus" agreement on global warming were expert editors for the agreement that found serious flaws in the report and supporting data.

Just some considerations, before embarking on a hasty course of action. Things can get unpleasant when whole nations leap to conc(l)ussions.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AH6LE on December 27, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Part of the problem with the global warming discussion (indeed, ANY discussion with liberals) is that as soon as one disagrees with their "conventional wisdom", it is labled hate. Of course, the purpose of that label is to shut down any further criticism and/or questioning of that "wisdom".

I would point out to my friend in the UK that is was his own country's Courts who pointed out 11 factual errors in Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" and that the very same Court ruled that the movie cannot be used in British schools without opposing commentary because the movie is propaganda.

Anyway, I have 3 comments to make regarding the farce of Global Warming that I have yet to hear ANY proponent humanity cause even TRY to refute. In fact, the following 3 comments pretty much leaves them with their jaws hanging in mid air:

1) That the world was flat and the center of the Universe was scientific consensus at one point in time. So explain how such a consensus today proves anything?.

2) Human activity global warming proponents love to point out that as CO2 levels rise, so do global temperatures. The only problem is the historical record shows that the increase in CO2 levels LAGS global temperatures. Therefore the only true link that can be made is that increasing global temperatures cause an increase in CO2, not the other way around.

3) In the 1970's, the "scientific consensus" was that global cooling would occur within the next 10 years if we did nothing. The MainStream Media played this card for over a year. Brrrrr...

Man made global warming is a hoax and nothing more than just another part of the socialist agenda.

It ain't hate my friend. It's logic based on the TRUE available evidence.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N2EY on December 27, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
WR8D writes: "Why are we forced to pay these high energy costs when right now we have alternative energy sources available and they're being surpressed worldwide?

Those in power are on the oil train. It's easy filthy money for them."

I agree - sort of.

WR8D: "At one of the biggest chemical plants in Wv near Kenova Wv there used to be a sign beside the interstate one could see almost for a mile as you drove toward it. Huge billboard that said...as you read this sign and in the same amount of time that it takes you to read it, we will have made enough gas to fuel your family car for one whole year."

WR8D: "Imagine all the plants just here stateside and the volume of gas produced in just one days production just stateside alone."

The problem is what they mean by "produced".

The sign was near a refinery, right? So what they were saying is that the refinery's output in 1 minute or so was enough to fuel a typical family car for a year. Say 1000 gallons of gasoline.

There are 525,600 minutes in a year. So that refinery produces enough gasoline for about a half-million cars per year. How many cars are there in the USA - 100 million? That's 200 refineries the size of that one in WV just to fuel our cars.

Then there's diesel fuel for ships, trucks, trains and farm equipment, aviation fuel for aircraft, etc. Plus plastics, fertilizers, etc. All from crude oil.

The problem is that the refinery, and every other one, needs crude oil going into it to make all that gasoline and other products.

WR8D: "There are no shortages just dishonest people making billions of dollars in profits yearly from the rest of us worldwide.

Those in control worldwide are getting really nasty rich on this. When is enough enough. 30 billion in under three months for just "one" little oil company in profit is shameful."

How much profit on how much sales? How does it compare to other quarters?

If they sold 60 billion worth of products and made 30 billion in profit, that's 50%. But what if they sold 600 billion in product and made 30 billion in profit? That's only 5%.

WR8D: "Look what they did with the totally electric car....gone oh but we got a "gas" electric in its place."

You mean cars like the EV-1? Yep, GM got out of it as soon as they could. Look what happened to diesel cars as well.

The hybrid cars work well and save fuel. They are a good first step. But they're only part of the solution.

Note that it wasn't an American company that made them a reality.

WR8D: "It would be really nice for all of us to do things that would help us all worldwide instead of coming up with ways to kill each other better and faster."

I agree! We knew decades ago that the supply of cheap, easy-to-extract oil was limited. But since it wasn't an immediate emergency, it never got the long-term commitment it needs. Instead, we spent billions on "Star Wars" SDI systems that were not only unnecessary but impractical.

WR8D: "Black ops surpress these alternative energy methods while we're at the mercy of the oil politicians and stockholders world wide."

No black ops at all. Not needed. Just a manipulated market and people distracted from the issue.

WR8D: "They keep coming up too with excuses to raise the price of oil which will increase the price at the pump. Just recently they thought another storm was going to hit the gulf...the price at the pump went up at mention of the storms which did no harm there this time...but the price stayed up. Just recently the Arabs cut production to keep the price high at the pump. This is all just the rape of the rest of us by those in control."

No, it's just the result of the way the markets work. The folks who have the cheap, easy-to-get, high quality oil can simply raise or lower production a bit to control the price. Supply and demand, aided by the fact that the suppliers can live with reduced production but the buyers won't live with reduced consumption.

WR8D: "We deserve exactly what we're getting at this point in time due to the simple fact we sat back and let them do this to the rest of us worldwide."

Think about why that's happening, and what would be needed to change it.

I remember the 1970s, when the supply of oil was reduced. Prices doubled, there were lines at gas stations, economy cars sold for a premium, people started walking, biking and using transit more, etc. The president then said we needed a national energy policy and a long-term focus on energy independence.

But that president wasn't reelected. Instead we elected a long line of presidents who said there was no serious energy problem, and who focused on keeping the oil supply plentiful regardless of cost. People junked their econoboxes and bought SUVs so they could make long commutes from their jobs to their McMansions. Transit and alternative energy sources went begging for funding. The USA backed a dictator in Iraq because he'd sell us oil cheap, and because he'd buy from us. Etc.

Imagine the energy sources we could have had if we in the USA had kept up the focus of the 1970s. But we didn't. We allowed ourselves to be distracted.

Fun fact: Almost no electricity is made by burning petroleum fuels here in USA. Natural gas, coal, hydropower, nuclear, solar and wind, yes, but oil is too expensive to use for electricity production except for special applications.

Half of the electricity I buy comes from the wind, btw.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by G3XBM on December 27, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
My friend, this is no joke.

OUR world is warming fast and WE are to blame for the threat to our children and grandchildren. We all need to think a bit more on the seriousness of the threat now posed to Planet Earth and start to change our ways.

There is yet time, but not a lot.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KC8YLJ on December 27, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Pure Al Gore B.S. !
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AH6LE on December 27, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Apparently G3XBM doesn't believe his own country's Courts.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KA1OS on December 27, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
KF7CG writes: 'Part of the problem with the global warming discussion (indeed, ANY discussion with liberals) is that as soon as one disagrees with their "conventional wisdom", it is labled hate. Of course, the purpose of that label is to shut down any further criticism and/or questioning of that "wisdom".'

I think the 'hate' part of what M0AJF mentioned had little to do with questioning conventional wisdom and more to do with the 'the liberals hate humanity and want us all to die to make way for the snail darter!' tone of previous posts. By all means, feel free to disagree and dig into into the individual scientific papers, but one needn't go hyperbolic with the rhetoric. Not everyone who thinks global warming could be a big problem is necessarily a socialist (or liberal). The other thing is that it isn't "100% Gore’s way" or "no way" with respect to the current consensus or where the science is likely to play out. Most climatologists know that many of Gore’s claims were overblown. The IPCC report didn’t project things nearly as direly as found in Gore’s 'Inconvenient Truth' book.

KF7CG also writes: '3) In the 1970's, the "scientific consensus" was that global cooling would occur within the next 10 years if we did nothing. The MainStream Media played this card for over a year. Brrrrr...'

Clarification: 'Global cooling' was proposed by a *few* scientists and hyped by some media outlets. Most climatologists thought the data and models were simply not supportive and the idea did not reflect the opinion of the vast majority of climate scientists. That idea ultimately died because of the scientific concensus that there was nothing there. To me, the reiteration of the 'global cooling' argument reveals that most laypeople (& I include myself in this group -- I just happened to do a little more reading on the global cooling 'controversy' at the time) ultimately have insufficient technical expertise to objectively evaluate the complex science of global warming. Instead, we rely on less certain surrogates like scientific consensus, second-hand interpretations, politics, emotions and etc. to reach decisions. All much less reliable means. I *know* that I can't be certain where things will ultimately fall in this debate. I suspect we'll know a lot more in 5-10 years.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by N7YA on December 27, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Seriously, i think humans will kill eachother off way before any global warming does...were absolutely insane.

Keep this in mind, the earth certainly doesnt need us...not one little bit. she would do just fine without us. warm or cold...were just not good for the earth to begin with. On the flipside, we DO need her. no matter what the scientists hired from whatever political party are paid to say, even the staunchest anti-gore would agree...mountains, lakes, oceans and clean air are pretty neat, we like these things.

Now, i dont know what the "real" truth is behind global warming because there is a virtual pileup of everyones opinions about it (and everything else for that matter)...lots of mental QRM. I do know that we arent helping the earth much, im not sure if we are actually speeding up her demise or not, and im quite certain that me running an amp (which i dont have, but i will eventually) wont destroy the earth as we know it...in fact, im sure its quite inconsequential.

Nope, i refuse to get all caught up in either side...the screaming Rush Limburger crowd who cant say anything without the words "jesus" and "liberal" in it, and the overly "earth-conscious" starbux chugging crowd who are acting just like the diaper wearing nazi's in an HOA. One thing i also find is that if you take a outwardly neutral stance and stay out of these "big" arguments, several things happen...first, it really irritates both sides because you arent taking their side, they accuse you of being spineless and unable to commit (like i was contemplating committing to a senseless argument to begin with) among other choice, temper-driven outbursts. Regardless of the fact that i most decidedly have my opinions on things, including this subject. But staying out of the soccer-fan frakas also remarkably lowers your blood pressure.

Lets summarize here....NOT getting all fired up like a football fan when your team is playing their archrival...you stay calmer, and the blood pressure stays down, you live longer barring any unforseen circumstances. it also allows you the luxury of taking your time to hear out both sides and make a more informed, wide ranging assessment without emotion playing into it. Even though i like to post about my own, very alone point of view. Lets see here...

Dont take yourself and everything so seriously, live longer.

Sounds good! But some folks LOVE to fight and argue, it gives them a sense of purpose. it fires them up in an otherwise boring day in a boring little town (so to speak)...Finally!! Something to stand up for so i can show my neighbors that i have a purpose! Even though theres no reason to scream and yell at others, they NEED to see my side of things!!

Eh, not really...its just adding to the pileup. Theres a huge difference between taking a stand on something you feel strongly about and screaming at the top of your lungs just so people will know that youre no wimpy pusbag...as per self perception.

But in the end, all this arguing and infighting does one thing...it drives the wedge deeper, it pulls the veil of secularism over our eyes even tighter. The more proud and boastful we get, the less we see a big picture...and the more closed off we become. I am fully convinced that any global warming that is coming is going to get here too late to matter to any of us. We cant even look at our fellow americans as friends and neighbors anymore, and its always the other guys fault.

This country is my home, im not leaving just because i disagree with more than a few of you guys, and i dont think you should "love it or leave it" either...you (currently) have the right to speak your minds. All i ask is that when you finally call yourself a man, and no longer call yourself a guy, dude, boy, kid, etc...you should be prepared to accept the responsibility of being a man.

As men, you are free to be whoever you want to be, tell whatever damn jokes you like, i know i do! You can eat what you want, do the job you want to do and raise your kids the way you see fit. Nothing wrong with any of that and much more...but as gentlemen, there are times when you have to represent who we are as a nation, and yourself as a man. Think about what you say and do before it happens because its not only your kids who are watching you.

Many of you get this...you do things the right way, but it escapes me why i have to remind so many more of you how to act like gentlemen. This shouldnt be a strangers problem...but you are posting to the world.

Some of you dont give a damn, and it shows. To those who care about the quality of children you raise, i say a heartfelt Thanks.

73...Adam, N7YA
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by G3XBM on December 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
This thread has saddened me greatly. All that is being asked is that we reflect on the risks to our planet and act responsibly.

It is not a matter of left, right, lover of Al Gore or George Bush or whatever: it is about the possible threat to our very existence as a result of our greed and irresponsibility. I am as guilty as anyone, so this is not a snipe at the USA for whom I have a lot of respect.

The USA, as a global power, must be seen as a leader in guiding the world through this issue to a sustainable future. We HAVE the technology today: we just need to apply it.

It doesn't require us to go back to caves, just that we live more considerately and less wastefully. We all would gain.

Please guys, let's cool this debate and our world for the sake of our children and grandchildren.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by G3LBS on December 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
I agree. As a kid in England the snow was like it is now in Buffalo, every year.
Now there is hardly any snow each Winter.
W2/G3LBS
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by KF7CG on December 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
While reflecting on the risks, reflect on these overlooked items:

All the carbon in fossil fuels that becomes carbon dioxide was once in the atmosphere as carbon dioxide. Reference the carbon cycle from biology and the biological origin of fossil fuels. Much data in that area to consider but none is ever reported.

Vegetation is NOT the cure for excess CO2. Again, reference the carbon cycle. For vegetation (trees, bushes, etc) to be effective, the dead portions of the plants have to be prevented from decaying. When biological material decays or burns it produces CO2 and other greenhouse gasses. The only way to remove carbon dioxide by biological means requires deep burial or other non-reactive disposal of the material.

Since the earth is a closed system its temperature can be calculated from the inputs sunlight, fossil and nuclear fuel energy, and geological energy sources and the outputs radiation to space. If the inputs and outputs are in balance then the temperature should remain the same.

Remember life and all living things need the availabity of energy at a higher state than their output.

The amount of energy available to all living things is determined by the ability of the earth to shed waste heat. Therefore as populations of living things increase the energy available to each individual decreases. This goes for everything from the lowest one-celled organism to mankind.

Since man is one of the largest users of energy per individual, and this can only be decreased to a certain level without severe damage to civiliztion, the best thing that man can do for the earth is to kill of 90% of the current population and revert to savagery.
 
Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by AH6LE on December 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
All the references to CO2 are non-sequitur.

Bottom line that EVERYONE is ignoring - the factual historical record shows that CO2 increases LAG temperature increases.

Therefore how, with a straight face, can ANYONE insist that increased CO2 levels cause increased temperatures?

It is a sad state of affairs when even some Hams don't grasp basic logic.
 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by 5B8BA on December 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Simple question.

Global warming has happened before. It appears is happening again, but at a greater rate since the industrial revolution; we can conclude that there is a significant probability that human activity whilst not being responsible for global warming per se we are responsible for the speed of change.

There are four options we can choose from:

1. do nothing and find out that it is a false alarm.
2. use huge amounts of resources to reduce the rate of change, and find it was a false alarm
3. utilise huge amounts of resources and successfully slow the rate of change
4. do nothing and be responsible for the effects on our children and grandchildren

So, the question.

Should we do something or say "screw you" to our kids?

 
RE: Is Ham Radio 'Green' Enough?  
by WD5L on December 28, 2007 Mail this to a friend!
Roger,

It's true that we here in the U.S. haven't been at our best with respect to addressing global warming. However, all of the scientific opinion polls indicate that a majority of Americans across the political spectrum believe that human caused global warming is serious and action needs to be taken. What you are reading here is not statistically representative of the U.S. as a whole. But your point is taken that ham operators, with a considerably higher technical knowledge of electronics and technology in general, ought to be able to fathom through this with out irrational appeals to emotion.

Also consider that three governors,