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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

Digital Modes on VHF/UHF

(KB9WL) on January 2, 2008
View comments about this article!

Greetings -- As my work life slows down and retirement approaches, I have been poking around in some of the newer nooks and crannies of our fine hobby. A while back I finally purchased an interface to bridge the gap between computer and rig. On the advice of several radio buddies, I downloaded and installed Ham Radio Deluxe along with Digital Master 780.

Wow, they were right! HRD/DM is some fine software. Simon Brown is quite a programming craftsman.

So, I have been having fun using PSK, RTTY, Olivia, and other interesting modes via the HF bands. It is interesting to note that many times my digital QSO partner is running 20 to 50 watts into a modest antenna. I have experienced contacts in which the tones could not be heard in the station speaker. It is easy to conclude that the marriage of sound card and nifty software does deliver effective keyboard-to-keyboard communications.

After a bit, I started to think about trying these cool digi-modes on weak signal paths. I queried my 6m friends, posted some solicitations on some boards, and generally tired to stir this pot. I did round up a small number of ops and we conducted some tests.

The results were generally poor. The typical test partner was not truly configured for weak signal operation. (Low takeoff angle and high ERP)

Operating digimode on 6m or 2m is still an intriguing prospect. Before I wrap up, I must state the following: I am aware of the work Joe Taylor has done and I have downloaded his WSJT suite. It is very interesting also. My current interest is in the "chatty" modes, at least for now.

Here are some questions that still bug me:

1. Can we demonstrate the claimed 10 to 13 db below the noise success using Olivia on a 6m or 2m tropo hop?

2. Will PSK, MFSK, or Olivia outperform CW in a truly adverse weak signal situation? (CW delivers below the noise with good ears)

3. Can digi on QRO 6m ops fill in the so-called distance gap between troposcatter and ionoscatter -- (paths too long for troposcatter and too short for ionoscatter)

Please comment if you have been trying this stuff on 6m, 2m, or 432. I would love to hear about your results. Lastly, drop me an email at kb9wl@arrl.net if you would like to make a sked.

73

Andy, KB9WL

Member Comments:
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Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by N2RRA on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Really good questions!

I'm glad you braught this topic up. I've been doing a lot more weak signal work lately, and it's all ways most interesting to work these bands. Working the lower bands for many years is great, but there's always something magical working 6 meters through 1.2 Ghz.

Last night for me would have been great to try your questions out on 6 meters. Do to the current meteor showers I was hearing a vast amount of voices, and CW signals in bursts. I couldn't complete any contacts, but I'm sure if knowing someone were to use one of the digi modes at the same time I'm sure it would've been different.

In these next couple of days it will reach it's peak, and I will be sure to e-mail you for a some skeds. till we're successful.

By the way I was spotted by WZ8Z in far western Ohio late last night . Who say's 6 meters is dead! If anyone would like to sked. lease e-mil me. I'm well setup!

73!
N2RRA
 
Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by K1CJS on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
First, just a warning--this is to do with digital modes, but primarily with ham radio as a whole--and I'm going to b*tch about something.

Its good that we all see the uses of digital modes on VHF and UHF bands. If the winlinkers have their way, the HF bands digital sections will be filled with winlink and pactor 3 stations, each not 'listening' to see if the frequency is active and each constantly generating what would only be termed as interference to each other. You can just forget about PSK, RTTY, and yes, even morse!

Hey winlinkers! You got your expensive toys, boats and motor homes--don't be cheap at our expense. Leave the HF bands for amateurs, and go buy your e-mail connections the way the rest of us do--Common carrier cellular, or satellite. Everyday e-mail doesn't belong on the ham bands, only emergency communication situation e-mail does--and then only if there isn't any other means available. And please, don't give us the excuse of 'practice'. That's done for a short period of time at specified intervals, not constantly, like you are doing now.
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by N2RRA on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Folks! Don't pay any attention to K1CJS. He always has something negative to say.

We don't have to worry about losing band segments, or band interference let alone what, and who can't hear what. That is the purose for band segmentation. There's a place for any mode on any band, and still more than enough room.

In fact the VHF/UHF bands don't get put to good enough use, and these bands are great. Hams get bored of them, because their willing to go through the trouble of putting up an array the size of a 4 el. Steppir, but won't go through the same that's 100 times the size smaller for VHF/UHF.

Don't limit the experimental communications experience by any means on any of your HF-UHF bands. That is what the hobby is about. Oh! let me not forget. Use your e-mails to the best of your advantage to a point.

One word! BUILD! You can build a dipole for the HF bands then you can for 6 meters on up. If you havn't done this then you've missed out on a lot.

73!
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by AA4PB on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I'm sure you realize this but some may not. In order to obtain the S/N benefits of these digital modes on VHF/UHF you must use a VHF/UHF SSB radio just like you do on the HF bands. If you feed your audio tones into an FM radio then you are not narrow band and are subject to approx. the same S/N requirement as any other FM transmission.
 
Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by WB5CTQ on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I am also fascinated by the possibilities of digimodes on six and two meter sideband. Check out pskmail and W1HKJ's excellent fldigi and flarq. Unfortunately, I'm not in a very good location to experiment now. But thanks for the article, and I will follow developments with interest.
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by N6HPX on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Last time I was at home I did try out some PSK on most HF bands but found the VHF bands to be dead most of the time, hadnt heard too much on the 6m and 2m. Only one openning on 6m and it last 10 minutes to Taiwan. So maybe next time I will try again. This was our summer months in the Philippines and the bands are usually very low on activiity.
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by N2RRA on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
AA4PB,

Oh! for sure. To make very clear weak signal work is found on the SSB/CW, and digi segents of each band for those that don't know.

I've found that even before the code was eliminated many hams that were grandfather'ed did'nt even know the existence of that portion of VHF/UHF even till today. This is a shame, because not only did they miss out, but they could've gained quite a bit of experience before entering the low band world. Now instead of QRM'ing a few hundred miles it's now a thousand plus miles asking "how does my antenna sound?" Not insulting anyone, but going from a VHF/UHF FM rig for 15 years then juming on HF with a Yeasu 1000 is apples and oranges.

Amateur Radio is all about experimenting, and being an example of an ambassador of good will.

73!
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by W6TH on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
.
.Folks! Don't pay any attention to K1CJS. He always has something negative to say. He is an old man and a feeble mind. Having only a limited ability to learn and understand.

K1CJS, has not much to do or say when he, K1CJS is now a general class licensed ham operator and never, ever took a code test or the theory test and was given to him because he cried the loudest against code and testing.

He sure is proud of himself as you can visualize by reading his jealous remarks of those that worked for the general class license and he, Chris, K1CJS got his ham license gratis.

.:You can see he is all mouth.: He has two mouths and one ear.:

.:
 
Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by K9ZF on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Hi Andy,

Nice article.

I wish I had caught up with you a couple of years ago. Then I was pretty active on the WSJT modes, and would have tried some PSK with you. We are a couple hundred miles apart. I had a pretty small station, so it would have been fun to try it.

Now, unfortunately, I don't have any antennas up. I bought a house last spring, and haven't been able to put up the tower yet. Eventually I will be 'back on the air' but I don't have any time frame planned yet.

Working a "chatty" mode with weak signal VHF+ ops is a bit difficult. The number of weak signal equipped stations is fairly low. And most of us don't seem to turn the radios on unless there is a contest. Sad, but true. Six meters is somewhat of an exception. There are a lot of DXer's on 6 who leave the rigs tuned to 50.125 waiting for an opening.

Hope to catch you on the air!

Now in EM78el...

73
Dan
--
K9ZF /R no budget Rover ***QRP-l #1269
Check out the Rover Resource Page at: <http://www.qsl.net/n9rla>
List Administrator for: InHam+grid-loc+ham-books
Ask me how to join the Indiana Ham Mailing list!



 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KB9WL on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
OZ1RH has written several articles about scatter:
http://www.oz1rh.com/

Our military used troposcatter and ionoscatter to link up all the DewLine radar stations and various other outposts. (My last duty station in the AF had a 180 mile tropo shot.) You can find all sorts of interesting articles about this. (My retro dream-job would be loadmaster on a C-124 Globemaster during the early/mid 50's)

Best success with long haul scatter requires a long boom yagi up 60ft or more with 6+ elements on 6m and many more on 2m. The extra db from a kilowatt amp helps (a lot). As has been mentioned, this is cw and ssb and, of course, the antenna is horizontally polarized. A major fly in the ointment is one's local noise. Local junk can ruin some beam headings.

As a point of reference, I can conduct cw operations out to about 1,000 miles most of the time via ionoscatter. Failure is usually a result of local noise precluding my hearing the other guy. I run full power into 9 elements (6M9KHW) at 66 ft.

WSJT takes advantage of the rocks; the chatty modes don't really benefit. ERP into the common volume is what provides the steady (but low level) communications medium. And, steady is the key to making the chatty modes work....73's KB9WL



 
Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KC8QFP on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
If I want to do "digital", there is the internet. Even ECHOLINK seems yucky for me. I actually like to talk or do CW on a radio, to get away from the keyboard and monitor. Ham radio can be a very fine escape from these blasted confusers. I've been a computer junky longer than a licensed ham, over 25 years. Remember the TI, Apple IIe, or Commie Pet? Maybe back then, I would have liked the marriage of transceiver to confuser. Now it bores me. I did packet when it it was fasionable, but that only lasted a few months. Maybe this is why some of us hams like to horsetrade, we try it for a while, get bored, then try something else. Ya know what? I actually like my old DOS ham stuff better than the fancy winders crap! Any DOS programmers out there? There were hundreds of PD and shareware ham radio programs to play around with. But after packet, things changed in ham radio. I got away from it for many years. I thought about trying some of the more recent digital modes, but I do not want to spend the $$$. I like to use the transceiver to get away from the keyboard, I do not even like conputer generated code. If I'm gonna do CW, it's gonna be with an old fasioned key, sort of like driving an old classic Model T, I'd prefer it be original rather than a souped up bucket T. Any of you conputer geeks pull out an old mechanical typewriter lately? Try it!
 
Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by N0AH on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I wish that they would just put 6M back into the HF catagory. The propagation really has nothing to do with "VHF" and above.....6M is a very FB band and I love the beacons on it- It lives and should remain digital for the CW mode :0
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KC8QFP on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
PS: I am not anti-digital as long as it is compliant with the R&R's. I was merely saying that I get tired of the computer, and use the transceiver to get away from it for a while. When I am in the mood for the "digital" there is Youtube or eBay to get my thrills.

But the computer may be a good way to recruit new younger hams who were brought up at the keyboard. When I was a kid, we were outside riding bikes, playground baseball, and gettin into trouble in the neighbor's trees (nothin like a fresh picked plum). So we got interested in ham radio with the boy scouts or something like that.

Now kids play vid games and text on their cellery fones. Digital ham radio may attract their ADHD interests. My grandkids seem mezmorised by that big knob on my rig. Soemday grampa will say OK instead of hands off. So perhaps you all can use this string to talk on how to attract kids with these new modes. Us OT's are falling to the way side, and you all are gonna take it over and make it your ways. But the ARS will soon be obselete if you don't increrase your numbers. HOW? You all tell me!
 
Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by W0IPL on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I'll skip the mud slinging and just say that I have a web page devoted to TNCs and digital at http://www.w0ipl.net/TNCs/ that covers at least some of the questions posed by the author.

We successfully conducted tests on VHF where we had full copy both ways at well below the background noise level.

As far as HF, I have confirmed contacts from Colorado to the Mediterranean, both stations running five watts into verticals, on PSK31.
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by AB7E on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Nice article and I hope it encourages more exploration. I'm not personally knowledgeable on most of the negative S/N capable modes but I seem to remember reading that they are somewhat vulnerable to phase shift, so that might be an issue for propagation modes like tropo.

By the way, are we EVER going to have a message thread here that doesn't get hijacked by the personal p***ing contest between W6TH and K1CJS?

Dave AB7E
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KV9U on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
On a more positive note, you may see some increase in digital modes on VHF, due to the release of two new modes: NBEMS (Narrow Band Emergency Messaging System) and the Multipsk FAE 400 mode.

NBEMS has only been available on Linux OS until the recent beta release for MS Windows. It combines a basic multimode digital program with flarg (a fast light developed ARQ add-on) that provides error free transmissions of messages and data and you can interface it to an e-mail program for ease of use. It allows a human operator to forward this as necessary for emergency routing depending upon the operators access to other stations or the internet.

Another new digital ARQ mode is the FAE versions of ALE. Especially interesting is the narrow 400 Hz wide FAE 400 mode. This is currently only available on the free Multipsk software program and while the mode uses the ALE 8FSK waveform, it does not have to be used for sounding or other ALE selcal features since you only have to click on CQ with FAE modes. When a station answers, you are then asynchronously linked (unlike Pactor which continues to cycle even if no data is being sent at the moment).

This is an incredibly cool mode and amazingly similar to Clover II back 15 years ago since there is no need to send an over command. Just type and it takes care of the details between the stations. If the link is moderately fair quality, the throughput is way faster than most of us can type and under difficult conditions, it still seems to get some frames through because of the memory ARQ which can take several defective frames, put them together and come up with a correct frame.

Frequencies recommended most recently have been:
3584, 7038, 10136, 14094, 18104, 21094 and the center frequency is automatically set at 1625 Hz so using USB, the dial frequency on your rig is the frequency the other station will hear you on.

Lots of new technology and note that they are fairly narrow modes, and work way down below the noise. Well below what is possible with voice modes.
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KG4RUL on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Posted by KV9U on January 2, 2008

On a more positive note, you may see some increase in digital modes on VHF, due to the release of two new modes: NBEMS (Narrow Band Emergency Messaging System) and the Multipsk FAE 400 mode.

NBEMS has only been available on Linux OS until the recent beta release for MS Windows. It combines a basic multimode digital program with flarg (a fast light developed ARQ add-on) that provides error free transmissions of messages and data and you can interface it to an e-mail program for ease of use. It allows a human operator to forward this as necessary for emergency routing depending upon the operators access to other stations or the internet.

====

OK - Where is there some more information and a download site for this mode??
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by W6TH on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
.
AB7E

Your face, it doesn't go with your necktie. Looks like a dog training leash.

.:
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KD5SFK on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
K9ZF said it best:

"And most of us don't seem to turn the radios on unless there is a contest. Sad, but true."

The first time I participated in a VHF contest I was really excited about how many people were on the air, and how far I could talk with a VERY modest setup. So for the next couple of weeks I tried and tried to make more VHF contacts and all I heard on 144.200 was static....

There are areas where people are active on weak-signal VHF, and if you're lucky enough to live in those locations--great for you. Otherwise, enjoy the static.
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KF4HR on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
First, K1CSJ. I think its safe to assume someone pee'd in your corn flakes today. Sorry 'bout that. But I'm sure all those boat and RV owners really deserved your slamming. (HUH?)

On to important things. I've been playing around with PSK31 now for several years now and I haven't witnessed a printable signal that has fallen below the noise floor of my receiver, but perhaps I need to listen more closely.

Given an expert CW operator with headphones, it would be an interesting test to see which mode would give out first; PSK31 or CW.

WSJT mode (thank you Joe T!) is a different story, although not what I'd like call a "keyboard chatty mode". Meteor Scatter and EME are good reasons to use WSJT on 6, 2, and above.

KF4HR
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KB9WL on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Olivia, with forward error correction (FEC), might well best psk...
 
Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by K0RGR on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
There was a group of us here in the upper midwest that focused on PSK and other modes on VHF for a while, and some of those folks are still active. It's the PSK_VHF_UHF_HAMRADIO group on Yahoo.

One of the first things we discovered is that PSK is too sensitive to multipath distortion to be real good for tropo scatter work. MFSK was MUCH better, but very hard to tune. I did not try Olivia - my guess is that it would be much better.

From here in Rochester, MN, I had no trouble checking into the weekly net, whose net control station was in Peoria, IL - 300 milles or so away. I also worked a station in north central Illinois using PSK over FM, so it can be done.

Most of the folks in that group moved on to WSJT, and it was fun working people all over the place with that mode, but I, too, was looking for a good conversational mode.
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by DA2KI on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
KB9WL,

Where exactly was your last AF duty assignment? I was a radio relay technician stationed at Det 2, Menorca RRL. We had a 179-mile tropo shot across the Mediterranean to the island of Sardina, using two 10-kW transmitters and quad diversity.

To all who used the Autovon circuits overseas, Yes-that swishing noise was our MW links fading in and out... '73
 
Digital Modes on VHF/UHF Just not 6 Meters  
by N0AH on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Tell you what, as soon as we start making two meter QSO's across the big pond, Then let us include 6M in the VHF crowd.

50MHz vs 144MHz = 98MHz difference in everything-

Not trying to make this into a 6 meter thread, but the only reason 6M was ever considered a VHF band was to satsify Technician Class operators with some form of DX besides taling accross town.
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF Just not 6 Meters  
by KB9WL on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
304x0 -- OLC, 2187th, Italy...FM Hill, Clark AB, PI, and last but not least, good ole Kessler --
(Biloxi booze rots our young guts but vodka goes well)
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF Just not 6 Meters  
by KB9WL on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
K0RGR
Drop me an email, our distance would be a real
challenge...
 
Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KA5ROW on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
My only experience with digital on VHF was during a opening on 6 meters about two years ago. I sent some SSTV on about 50. 300. And to my surprise I got some responses. Maybe when the solar cycle picks up there will be a lot of digital QSO's on the VHF / UHF bands. I would like to look into digital on 2M and 70 CM as well
 
Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KI6JUU on January 2, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
The problem you run into using "digital" communications, is how to define, "get through"..coding schemes that operate down near or into the noise level all require an extensive error correction technique..which reduces the "through-put"..My experience tells me that the biggest impact to effective digital communications is multipath fading, especially in a mobile environment..The impact of areas such as signal to noise ratio can be mitigated by increased ERP, as indicated by several responders. However, multipath fading is not affected by an increase in power, since any increase in the main path signal is offset by an increase in the destructive path signal, thereby merely increasing the slope of the fade
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by RX1 on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
"W6TH" "Folks! Don't pay any attention to K1CJS. He always has something negative to say."

If anybody would know, ......
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by W6TH on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
.
RX1, you are now a member of the K1CJS/W6TH org.
Takes one to know one.

.:
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by N2RRA on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I've read a lot so far about S/N on most digi modes except RTTY.

What is the S/N performance on RTTY?

How often is it used on 6, 2, and 432?

 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KB9WL on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
dunno, good question, in my limited experience, I have not heard rtty sigs or comments about rtty on these bands
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by N2RRA on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Was wondering when speaking of S/N on some of the modes mentioned these modes are a very low tone signals when listening on opposite bands. No wonder the S/N isn't very good through QRM or tropo flutter.

RTTY is very loud, and could really be heard through very noisy bands. SO does this mean it has better S/N properties over other digi modes?

Would like to test this theory. Anyone game a couple of hundred miles to start?
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KB9WL on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
N2RRA
we are 850 miles apart - ionoscatter might work if
the geometry and erp are sufficient...
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KG4QPQ on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
"By the way, are we EVER going to have a message thread here that doesn't get hijacked by the personal p***ing contest between W6TH and K1CJS?"

The contest mentioned above aside, I think we missed a good point that K1CJS made. I love digital modes and this where I plan to spend most of my time over the next year.

However, we should not overlook the fact that one of our first obligations, is to not interfere with other stations. I agree with K1CJS that we must make sure our didgital operations are using modes were we can first check to see if there is a QSO in progress. This isn't negative, just good practice.

I have been following a thread elsewhere discussing this very issue extensively. I'm afraid I have to agree that the unattended sending of email or any communication is not with in the spirit or the law of our hobby.

I'm not being negative and I'm not getting involved in what appears to be an ongoing feud. Please continue to enjoy digital modes and experiment. I know i will but I will at all time ensure I don't interfere with others.

 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by W3JKS on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
For anyone interested in experimenting with this new mode (NBEMS), here are is the URL for the software:

http://www.w1hkj.com/

Looks like something new and interesting to try!

73, john
W3JKS/AAT3BF/AAT3ST
Army MARS WL2K Sysop-Delaware

 
Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by K0RGR on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Here are the 'standard' frequencies for various digital modes on 6 and 2 - you will actually hear activity on some of these if you're patient.

6 Meters CW/SSB/Digital
50.060-50.080 CW Beacons (unattended sub-band)
see: <http://www.keele.ac.uk/depts/por/50.htm>
50.080-50.100 CW QSO's
50.100-50.125 DX Window
50.110 DX Calling Frequency
50.125 North American SSB Calling Frequency
50.133-50.430 Voice Nets see: <http://6mt.com/nets.htm>
<http://www.google.com>
50.255 FSK441 lower practical limit for most QSO's
50.260 FSK441 Calling Frequency
50.285 FSK441 upper practical limit for most QSO's
50.290 SSB PSK31
50.291 BEACONet^31 (with +1500hz PSK audio)
50.300 or 50.700 RTTY?
6 Meters
50.680 SSTV

2 Meters CW/SSB/Digital
144.00-144.05 EME (CW)
144.05-144.06 Propagation beacons (old band plan)
144.06-144.10 General CW and weak signals
144.10-144.20 EME and weak-signal SSB
144.140 WSJT FSK441/JT44 calling frequency
144.110 to 144.160 WSJT FSK441 or JT44 (around this area)
144.131 BEACONet^31 (with +1500hz PSK audio)
144.150 SSB PSK/HELL/MFSK16/SSTV
144.200 National SSB calling frequency
144.20-144.30 General SSB operation, upper sideband
144.275-144.300 New beacon band
2 Meters FM Digital modes
145.500 SSTV (National SSTV Simplex FM Frequency)
145.550 FM PSK31, Hellschreiber

50.290 does get busy during band openings, and 144.150 used to - I haven't been there for quite a while.
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by K1LL on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
My Favorite POST??

KC8QFP ranting on and on about how he does not like computers .. all the while using a computer to post this dribble on the Internet ...

see the irony???

ROTFLMAO




KC8QFP

"blah blah blah I actually like to talk or do CW on a radio, to get away from the keyboard and monitor. Ham radio can be a very fine escape from these blasted confusers. I've been a computer junky longer than a licensed ham, over 25 years. Remember the TI, Apple IIe, or Commie Pet? Maybe back then, I would have liked the marriage of transceiver to confuser. Now it bores me. I did packet when it it was fasionable, but that only lasted a few months. Maybe this is why some of us hams like to horsetrade, we try it for a while, get bored, then try something else. Ya know what? I actually like my old DOS ham stuff better than the fancy winders crap! Any DOS programmers out there? There were hundreds of PD and shareware ham radio programs to play around with. But after packet, things changed in ham radio. I got away from it for many years. I thought about trying some of the more recent digital modes, but I do not want to spend the $$$. I like to use the transceiver to get away from the keyboard, I do not even like conputer generated code. If I'm gonna do CW, it's gonna be with an old fasioned key, sort of like driving an old classic Model T, I'd prefer it be original rather than a souped up bucket T. Any of you conputer geeks pull out an old mechanical typewriter lately? Try it!.. blah blah blah"
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by AA4PB on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I think most times the S/N ratio is not as low as we think it is. We are judging it by what we hear on the speaker, listening to a narrow signal in 2800Hz of noise. The computer on the other hand is "listening" to the signal through a very narrow filter. Just like on CW, switch in a narrow filter and the signal appears to jump out of the noise.
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by K1CJS on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
By HF4HR:
"First, K1CSJ. I think its safe to assume someone pee'd in your corn flakes today. Sorry 'bout that. But I'm sure all those boat and RV owners really deserved your slamming. (HUH?)"

Please try to get the call right--CJS. Now, I didn't get up on the wrong side or anything like that--and, I'm not slamming ALL the boat owners. Just the ones who want their e-mail over ham radio instead of paying for it like the other boat owners do.

N2RRA--I have good things to say too. On this forum for certain subjects it better to call the pot black if it is--instead of pussyfooting around. Winlink and pactor 3 are just on that list.

W6TH--Hi again. What did you do first and better than somebody else today? Brag some more? If not you're sure having a bad day, and that's good.
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by K1CJS on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
By W6TH--
"RX1, you are now a member of the K1CJS/W6TH org.
Takes one to know one."

Don't give me cause to throw up--I refuse membership in ANY organization that will have the likes of you.
___________________

And, I apologise to the author. I should have looked closer at the article instead of speed reading it. I just want to add that I've also used data modes on the 2 meter band--packet and APRS. However--food for thought: How come data modes on VHF can do better than what the winlinkers are pushing on HF? I know the higher frequency allows greater speeds, but the winlinkers claim of needing greater bandwidth seems like baloney.
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by AA4PB on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Uhhh, VHF/UHF allows for higher speeds **because** there is greater bandwidth available.
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by N2RRA on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
For K1CJS & AA4PB,

K1CJS - Don't bother to pull me into your little circus, because after this response I will no longer respond no matter what.

It's obvious you starve for attention, and I will not amuse you or your fans. I have much time better to spend on Amateur Radio else where, and will not stoop to your level of intelligence.

AA4PB - Now sticking to the topic at hand, and looking for "further progress on the topic" thank you for your input. Comments well noted!
 
Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by W5AK on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
To those of you who are observing a lack of activity on VHF phone, please look at www.pingjocket.net where EME and MS digital contacts are arranged. There is more than enough activity to have fun almost every day of the month. It's the most fun I have had in many years of hamming. With a modest 6 meter radio, you can made a "dead band" come alive on random meteors. EME on 2 meters with WSJT (JT-65B) is very possible with a modest station. There are hundreds of DX stations whom you can work. Try it.... you'll like it!
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KT4WO on January 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
KC8QFP--- Is CW not the 1st Digital Mode??



Click here to outlaw Pactor 3 and WinLink.
www.fcc.gov

Or at least make them ID in Pactor 1 or CW so "We"
can see who is QRM'ing us!

FIRE!!!!!!.. hee hee
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by K1CJS on January 4, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
By N2RRA on January 3, 2008

>>K1CJS - Don't bother to pull me into your little circus, because after this response I will no longer respond no matter what.<<

Uh huh, pull YOU into MY circus? You're the one who opened the tent flap by your responce.

 
Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KC8QFP on January 4, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
When are they gonna have echolink on 11 mweters?
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KC8QFP on January 4, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
"KC8QFP ranting on and on about how he does not like computers .. all the while using a computer to post this dribble on the Internet ... "

Can you read, I said I am a computer junkie and need a break from it sometimes. Where's the irony, I've been on the internet before there was WWW. Ever hear of Cleveland Freenet? I was a sysop on it.

ab064
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by W9WHE-II on January 8, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I occasionally operate APCO P25 on UHF. Its a blast!
 
Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KG4FET on January 10, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
First off I commend you on trying to generate some interest in the Digital modes on VHF/UHF. I have been attempting the same thing for quite a while on 6M and some on 2M as well. My experience has been, to say the least, disappointing.

There is a core group that works 6M when the band is open on 50.290 using PSK and some of the narrower modes. I usually call on 50.125 for contacts and move off to 290 in PSK but have only generated a handful of contacts that way.

Here is the problem. Most of the guys who work 6M are looking for "run and gun" grid hunting contacts. PSK and HELL lend themselves to longer QSO's and few op's are willing to do that when the band is open. The OM on 6 who have managed to get past grid hunting and just enjoy the band are more interested in SSB qso's then digital and I admit it's easier to talk then to type HIHI.

2M is worse. Finding a spot for a Slo HELL or PSK contact is close to impossible. Also it seems there are few who would even be willing to try PSK or HELL on 2M during a tropo or Es opening and again it's the grid hunt over quality QSO's. Here the best bet is to try to set skeds or try calling on the SSB call freq and try to get some folks to switch to psk on a selected QUIET freq. You might find a more willing group now then in the past because of the modes in WSJT that or more oriented to tropo contacts then in the past. IZ8BLY Nino has a HELL program that has an 1/8th speed setting that is perfect for the QSB that is associated with some 2M openings. Take a look at that.

I am without any VHF ssb/fsk capabilities here or I would be one of the regulars on 2 and 6M's calling CQ until the computer melted down on psk or hell or what ever else I could play with in MultiPSK. Keep It up "if you call, They will come" but you HAVE to Call CQ or nobody will know the band is open, because there are a lot of listeners but no CQ'ers.
73 es God Bless
DE KG4FET Sandor EM90dh
 
RE: Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KG4RRN on January 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
If you operate 900 Mhz, how much does your equipment cost, and how many other affectionados does it really draw.
Touse Motorola PS obsolete gear, and to reprogramme it for ham band in 900 Mhz, then to convince others to do the same, just so you can talk to them is great, but a useless expense most cannot afford.
I see a lot of low band-high band and UHF industrial(public service) gear being dumped on eBay now, but you really need someone to be able to re-tune and re-filter it to work in the ham bands. It is not legal to leave it "asis"- being able to TX on 154.000> for example...So a word to the wise and new hams there .
Make sure if you buy old Fire/police/ public service rigs, you have a competent technician to re-work the frequencies, otherwise Unkle Riley may send you a letter of woe if you are caught txing on a band you are not licensed for...
I am currently working on my 2200H dstar mobile and have had our first digital voice net last week, which was fun, knowing that anyone with normal radios could not hear us....haha
Waiting for Al Kida to come again .....73 all ~
 
Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by KD4NUE on January 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
have found good connectivity on 2M SSB using Olivia with 5 watts over a 45 mile range where 100 watts and SSB from the same antenna/transceiver combo would not overcome the noise level on the other end.

Allmode rigs give technician class operators the chance to really excel in moving traffic via soundcard digital modes on 2m SSB.

Also, VHF and above provides more bandwidth for wider bandwidth modes to be tested, where there is so much complaints on the HF frequencies for anything wider than PSK.

2KHz Contestia, Oivia or MT-63 nearly always brings out the whiners, when deployed on HF.

Moving life saving traffic via Pactor III also somehow makes their life miserable when a disaster conflicts with a scheduled contest or some rare DX that never graces the band with anything that advances more thant the operator's egos....

It is good to see others considering trying modes in unconventional areas. There are no "throwaway" frequencies, and there are digital modes to take advantage of most propagation properties.

I am very thankful that most of the Amateur Radio Community is sufficiently technically advanced to appreciate more difficult technology than were used in early spark gap transmitters.

This is what keeps Amater Radio a viable asset for future generations.


David
KD4NUE
 
Digital Modes on VHF/UHF  
by N5LRZ on January 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Digi on 2 meters, I will have to try that. I do know that I have used SSTV aka MMSSTV and sent several transmission both direct and thru a local repeater with success. And as you might expenct the signals thru the repeater resulted in great pictures on the receive side.

The only problem we had going thru the repeater is that you have to be sure not to time-out the repeater by transmitting in modes that result in too long of a sustained input into the repeater.

I have not tried PSK but it would be very interesting to compare my SSTV results to PSK transmissions.

 
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