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IC-7000 Woes
Alan Applegate (K0BG)
on
January 30, 2008
View comments about this article!
The title of this article is misleading, but hopefully if will cause owners or potential owners to read and heed. If it had a subtitle it would be this; except in very rare cases, devices made to work with the IC-706 will not work properly with the IC-7000, and may indeed cause extensive damage to an IC-7000. If the main title didn't get to you, maybe the previous sentence did. If so, read on.
Icom has sold over 70,000 IC-706 transceivers in its various iterations. This makes it the most popular amateur transceiver, ever! As a result, there are hundreds of after-market accessories made for the radio. A large percentage of these connect to the tuner and/or accessory port(s) on the back of the radio. Although there are some questionable device designs being employed, except for a dead short scenario, most of these devices seemingly don't cause any damage to the radio (IC-706).
When Icom introduced the IC-7000, the level of circuit complexity increased about 10 fold. Although is utilizes surface mounting techniques like the IC-706 does, the extra complexity and multi-layered PC board make working on the radio about 10 times more difficult as well. I venture to say, not too many amateurs have the necessary equipment and surface mounting expertise to do any major repairs to the radio.
Both radios power the aforementioned ports through surfaced mounted relays, PC traces and PC jumpers, and short wire jumpers. As a result, the voltage drop is about 1 volt at their maximum rated current of 1 amp. Although Icom lists the maximum draw as 1 amp for each of the ports, I suspect this is a total for the two ports combined. This said, the thrust here is the tuner port and the various pins, and what you can and cannot do with them. So we're on the right track, here is what the pins are.
Pin 1 is the KEY line. It is the pin next to the 'V' in the Molex connector. Internally, this pin is connected directly to the Logic Unit (CPU), which plugs into the Main Unit circuit board. The CPU's Vdd is 3.0 vdc. Any voltage applied to this pin will effect the temperature readout and thus proper operation of the cooling fan, and will cause the SWR readout to read higher than the actual SWR.
Pin 2 is the START line. It is held low internally by a 1 megohm resistor. There is an open-collector transistor (Q1102) attached to this line. When the AH-4 (designed to mate with this port) is plugged in, the START line is pulled high to 5 vdc through a 47K ohm resistor. The line also goes through IC1402 (an inverter gate acting as an isolation device), and over to the CPU.
Pin 3 has supply voltage on it, anytime the radio is turned on. It is switched with a surface mounted relay rated at one amp. This relay powers both ports (tuner and accessory) thus the 1 amp total draw rating I alluded to above. Although the circuit traces appear robust, and the short jumper from the Molex connector to the main board is adequate, if you dead short this line the circuit board trace, or relay, will fail before the 5 amp fuse opens.
 Pin 4 is connected to chassis ground through a circuit trace, although it is somewhat more robust than that of pin 3.
This drawing is a typical, poorly designed, interface used to make the IC-706 transmit a 10 watt carrier for a brief time when the Tune/Call button is pressed.
Please note the KEY line which is pulled high to nominal supply. If you plug such a circuit into an IC-7000, you run a great risk of destroying the CPU. What's more, the switching transistor (Q1102) is rated at a maximum collector current of 100 mils.
Also note the START line is pulled high to nominal supply, which exceeds the maximum logic input voltage of the inverter (IC1402).
All of this begs the question, what is safe to plug into the port? Well, obviously any device Icom supports such as the AH-4 and similar Icom couplers, as are most other auto-couplers (LDG, MFJ, et. al.) which are labeled to work with the IC-7000. While some of them draw power from the tuner port, the current draw is typically under 1 amp, and of short duration. However, antenna couplers aren't the only devices which plug into the tuner port.
At least five companies have made screwdriver controllers which are (were) designed to plug into the IC-706 tuner port. Some are compatible with the IC-7000, and some aren't. As a rule of thumb (no absolutes here), devices which talk to the IC-7000 via the CI-V port and only draw logic power from the port, are compatible.
There are two such devices I am aware of. They are the BetterRF 7000 Tune control and it's companion 7000 Screwdriver control, and the latest Turbo Tuner. However, there is a difference between these two devices. The BetterRF unit uses a separate, fused, power connection for the antenna's motor, while the Turbo Tuner pulls power from the tuner port. Obviously, (in the latter case) proper wiring is essential to prevent pin 3 from being shorted out, or too much current being drawn.
Here's few words about the IC-7000's accessory port. You cannot switch any external device (an amplifier for example) without some sort of interface. For example, the ALS-704 (and others) plugs into the accessory port and properly interfaces the port's logic to even a grid-blocked amplifier. If you use a sound card interface to drive external devices, make sure you're within the card's voltage and current controlling capabilities.
The aforementioned information isn't (wasn't) meant to scare people away from the IC-7000; quite the contrary. It is a very serviceable radio, which offers a lot of bang for the buck. And indifference to some popular press, the earlier problems have all been addressed by Icom. I personally have been using an IC-7000 mobile for over two years, and I'm still impressed with it. Yes, it does have some drawbacks, and there are a few things Icom should address on any replacement model. I'd just wish they'd ask us users what we'd like to see, for a change.
The final word here is, do not indiscriminately plug any unknown device into the tuner and/or accessory port(s) with out some knowledge of its compatibility with the IC-7000; compatibility with the IC-706 notwithstanding.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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IC-7000 Woes
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by N2RRA on January 30, 2008
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Once again an outstanding article worth reading. Imperitive information for the new IC7000 owner.
Good thing I was told about this 2 yrs. ago before I plugged my better R.F. tune controller for my 706 into the 7K.
Still very impressed with the IC7000, and will be keeping it right along my 706MK2G.
73!
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IC-7000 Woes
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by KC8ZEV on January 30, 2008
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Good article. It actually has merit. The 706 has been around many. many years. Icom gets pretty good marks for supporting "legacy" equipment. Most manufacturers of electronics are more than happy to bail on supporting older products. The fact that the 7000 can use a fraction of any of the 706 class of accy's is amazing in it self. When purchasing a new rig, it is best to plow over the specs and accy details for compatibility.
73
KC8ZEV
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IC-7000 Woes
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by KQ4KK on January 30, 2008
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I had a 706mk2g with Turbo Tuner, sold the 706, bought a 7000.
Flashed the Turbo Tuner with R3 ROM and plugged it into the 7000. Its been working great for over a year.
Push the tune button, it tunes just like the 706. But you don't seen the SWR meter work on the 7000 as it tunes, like the 706. That seems to be a 7000 "issue" tho.
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RE: IC-7000 Woes
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by K0BG on January 30, 2008
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Kent, believe it or not, the SWR readout is disabled in the 7000 when it is in the 10 watt mode. This is more of a firmware fallout than anything else. This is why most screwdriver antenna controllers (like the BetterRF) use the CI-V port instead of emulating the AH-4.
As I mentioned, controllers which draw antenna motor current from the 7000 can also cause problems. Even the AH-4 draws enough current to drop the port voltage down nearly 1.2 volts under supply when it's tuning. In any case, forewarned is forearmed.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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RE: IC-7000 Woes
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by EI2GLB on January 30, 2008
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i have one of the ebay speical relay in cable amp keying cable is that safe to use to key a amp on the ic7000
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RE: IC-7000 Woes
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by K0BG on January 30, 2008
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If the relay is properly buffered, and has the capacity to handle both the voltage and current of the load, it's probably safe. This said, I wouldn't try to switch a grid-block amplifier with such an arrangement.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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by EI2GLB on January 30, 2008
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im sorry alan i dont know what a grid block amp is.
i want to switch a te1412g for 2m
thanks for the info
Trevor
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RE: IC-7000 Woes
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by K0BG on January 30, 2008
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Trevor, go to my web site, and look under Amplifier Setup, and then select Keying Interfaces. There are two commercial ones listed, and one home brew.
The only change, you'll either need to change the 7000 programming, or use the VSENT instead of the HSEND pin.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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RE: IC-7000 Woes
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by W3LK on January 30, 2008
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<< There is not one radio out there that is perfect!>>
Who said there is? All Alan is doing is pointing out possible pitfalls. Did you actually read the article?
Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, CT
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RE: IC-7000 Woes
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by HAMMERTIME on January 30, 2008
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Pretty good advice here, I guess.
Not sure why anyone would assume that since one device would work on one radio,it would automatically work on another just because it was made by the same manufacturer.Especially since the two rigs being compared have totally different model numbers!
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RE: IC-7000 Woes
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by W3LK on January 30, 2008
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<< Not sure why anyone would assume that since one device would work on one radio,it would automatically work on another just because it was made by the same manufacturer.>>
Invalid assumption; it happens all the time.
Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, CT
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RE: IC-7000 Woes
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by W5JON on January 30, 2008
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Lon W3LK,
Over the past year or so, I have noticed that on most all Forums, you choose to comment or critique someone elses comment on a topic, rather then the topic being discussed.
Just an observation.....
73,
John W5JON
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RE: IC-7000 Woes
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by HAMMERTIME on January 30, 2008
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Invalid assumption; it happens all the time.
Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, CT
So you are saying you personally have done this "all the time"?
That is similar to someone saying "Hey, I have a 1998 Ford F150 so this (insert whatever part) off this 2005 F150 must surely fit since they are both Fords!"
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RE: IC-7000 Woes
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by HAMMERTIME on January 30, 2008
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Lon W3LK,
Over the past year or so, I have noticed that on most all Forums, you choose to comment or critique someone elses comment on a topic, rather than the topic being discussed.
Just an observation.....
73,
John W5JON
This is nothing. Wait until he says that until his wife starts paying the bills, he will not let her tell him which device to use on which radio!Regardless of whether it is supposed to work on said radio or not!
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RE: IC-7000 Woes
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by AA4PB on January 31, 2008
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Actually I think it is a "reasonable" assumption to think that if an Icom radio has an Icom standard 4-pin tuner interface and is specified to work with an Icom tuner that any device that worked on earlier Icom tuner ports would also work on the IC-7000. Unfortunatly things are more complex than that. Icom made changes to the circuit design that are compatible only with devices that exactly emulate the Icom tuner. Some of the things that you could get away with on the earlier circuitry you can not get away with on the newer circuitry.
Alan explains what to watch out for very well.
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IC-7000 Woes
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by N3TSN on January 31, 2008
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Well My ford pinto bumper wont fit on my ford maverick either, nor will the radiator,wheels or front clip but the cigar lighter can be switched between the two imagine that.
Icom even states the IC 7000 is not a replacememnt for the 706
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RE: IC-7000 Woes
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by K4JSR on January 31, 2008
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I say again, "I do not know why K0BG does what he does for us hams, but I am glad and grateful that he does it!"
73, Cal K4JSR
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RE: IC-7000 Woes
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by W3LK on January 31, 2008
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JON:
I comment on lots of things, just as you are doing now. :)
Hammertime:
At least my wife respects my feelings, my hobbies and is too much of a marriage partner to think she has to control every part of my life - unlike the wives of may of the wimp hams who complain their wives won't let them do something to their own homes, yards, vehicles, etc. :)
Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, CT
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IC-7000 Woes
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by MY_OPINION on January 31, 2008
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Alan, thank you for the tip and the explanation of differences between the 706 series and the 7000. However, I am both surprised and dismayed by the foray into sensationalism as evidenced by the title of your essay. Indeed, it is rather misleading.
True, Icom has produced a remarkable radio in the 706 series. Icom has produced another remarkable radio with its introduction of the IC-7000. I had two of the former and sold them in favor of two of the latter. For the features and performance, I would not trade back.
Anyone who would buy a radio and then fails to read the manual does so at their own folly and peril. Anyone who would attempt to use accessories for one radio with a radio of a completely different line (NB: Icom did not market the 7000 as the 706MkIII) without proper investigation of specifications, particularly with a product from a third party manufacturer, similarly does so at their own folly and peril. Should we accept that all 2.1 mm power plugs are center positive and 12v? Of course not.
The title of your essay unneccessarily disparages a fine radio simply to generate attention. The "woes" of your title would more appropriately be laid at the feet of the uninformed, unmotivated, and unwilling (to learn) users rather than to be ascribed to the IC-7000.
In the past, I have enjoyed your essays and appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge and experience. Please do not pander to the tabloid tactics of those who in all probability will not heed your advice, however presented.
And that, my friend, is
MY_OPINION
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by AA4PB on January 31, 2008
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Anyone who would buy a radio and then fails to read the manual does so at their own folly and peril
-----------------------------------------------------
I'm afraid that you won't find that level of detail in the manual. Alan did a good deal of research and testing on this subject in order to gather the information. I think he has been working on it for about a year.
You won't get much help from most of the mfgs of 3rd party equipment either. Most of them simply assumed that because the AH-4 works with both the 706 and the 7000 that their devices would also work with both radios. It was a good assumption with all of the many previous Icom models but it turned out to be a bad assumption in the case of the 7000.
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IC-7000 Mic pin-outs
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by N6JSX on January 31, 2008
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Another difference - between 706 & 7000 are the Mic port pin-outs are different. [And no AF out the mic port for head sets - a really dumb oversight.]
The mic pin-out difference is not a radio killer but means you cannot take your your Heil mic/headset off your 706 and directly plug it into the 7000.
Overall the 7000 is the best mobile radio I've ever used and is head and shoulders better than the older technology 706 - absolutley no comparison. The variable IF DSP, NB, and more really cuts down on mobile noise(s)! A keeper!!!!
706mk2g is now my back-up rig.
Kuby, N6JSX/0/8
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RE: IC-7000 Mic pin-outs
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by K0BG on January 31, 2008
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Just so I don't embarrass anyone, I won't use any names. Let's just say it was a luckless young man, who assumed his remote antenna controller (a well-known brand), which had served him well for 5 years while attached to his 706, would work just as well with his 7000. After all, he was told, it emulated the AH-4, just like Icom envisioned.
The truth was (is), it didn't (doesn't) emulate the AH-4, as there is supply voltage applied to the KEY line (Pin 1). Internally, this pin is connected directly to the CPU, which operates at 3.0 vdc. Yes, it is an open collector connection, but the current capability of the CPU isn't enough to withstand the resulting current level. With a bill of $350, you think he would have learned.
In this case, the controller's logic supply, and the supply for the motor are supplied by Pin 3 of the tuner port. One would assume since Icom states the maximum current is one amp, it would safely power his antenna. It did, until a poor connection shorted Pin 3 to ground. This time, a trace on the Main board failed. Incidentally the 5 amp fuse was intact. This repair cost just over $400.
You can draw any conclusion you wish to draw. However, the fact remains there are several controllers (and interfaces) being sold which can potentially cause (expensive) damage to a 7000, yet will work perfectly with a 706.
Yes, I agree the title isn't the best, but when you want to gain attention, sometimes it is necessary to cry a little bit of wolf.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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RE: IC-7000 Mic pin-outs
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by W4LGH on January 31, 2008
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IN this ever fast changing world of electronics, it is NEVER safe to assume anything! For that matter, assuming anything can get you into trouble more times than not.
When Henry Ford started mass producing autos, everything was compatible. Most successful manufactures followed his model, and the same was true
with electronics. Then somewhere along in the 80's everything went into a reverse method, and became very specific to each model. This has been the trend for the past 25 years.
The same holds true with the ICOM 706 & 7000 models. If the 7000 had meantto be a replacement for the 7000 they would have advertised it this way, and the 706's would have gone away. I am not an ICOM fan, but from personal experience, I believe the 706 to be a much better radio than the 7000. At least as far as overall operation and reliablity go. Sure the 7000 has that pretty little color "fish finder" screen on it, and it will even display TV on it, if mod'ed, but why bother? Some people like the "fish finder" on their radios, and thats fine, but its not for me.
Sometimes New and Improved is NOT always better, tried and tested will usually always win out.
73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
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RE: IC-7000 Mic pin-outs
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by W9PMZ on January 31, 2008
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or is this just a symtom of hams not being able to rtfm...........
73,
carl - w9pmz
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RE: IC-7000 Mic pin-outs
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by AA4PB on February 1, 2008
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I say again, you can read the manual until the cows come home and it won't give you this information!!! The manual won't tell you which 3rd party devices are compatible and which are not. The manual won't tell you that if you have a bad connection and it shorts the output (which can happen even with an AH-4) that the circuit trace will burn before the fuse blows.
Actually the trace burn thing is a design flaw (an oversight). Nobody purposely uses a 4A fuse to protect a circuit with wiring that can only handle (for example) 3A.
It's a great radio but it has some limitations, like most everything else. I expect you'll see some of these issues addressed in future releases. In the meantime read and head Alan's article.
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RE: IC-7000 Mic pin-outs
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by W9PMZ on February 1, 2008
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"The manual won't tell you which 3rd party devices are compatible and which are not. "
duh.............
They don't print product manuals after 3rd party products are introduced. Further, I'm not sure I can think of an instance that a product vendor sends out information on which 3rd party products are useable.
It's pretty much up to the user and the 3rd party vendor to determine if the product is compatible, before you blow up your rig.........
73,
Carl - W9PMZ
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RE: IC-7000 Mic pin-outs
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by KD6NIG on February 1, 2008
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or is this just a symtom of hams not being able to rtfm...........
73,
carl - w9pmz
(quote)
Its more a symptom of males refusing to read the manual :)
Its not just a ham thing. Many people let smoke out of many things every day, then wonder "hmm, wonder what the manual says. Oops."
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RE: IC-7000 Mic pin-outs
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by W6EM on February 2, 2008
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K0BG said:"One would assume since Icom states the maximum current is one amp, it would safely power his antenna. It did, until a poor connection shorted Pin 3 to ground. This time, a trace on the Main board failed. Incidentally the 5 amp fuse was intact. This repair cost just over $400."
Alan, this lad should NOT have had to pay for this hapless failure. The fact that the I squared t (fault withstand) rating of the circuit trace is below what an ICOM-chosen 5A fuse will limit is clearly a design flaw.
If, the port current carrying capacity was meant to be 1 Ampere continuously, then the fuse rating and its time-current characteristic should be lower. Much lower.
So, whoever that "young person" is, he or she should be advised to contest the ICOM repair charge.
In fact, ICOM should perform a factory modification on all existing IC-7000 radios that have the identical trace and fuse. Similar, in fact, to a Detroit auto recall.....
73.
Lee
W6EM/4
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RE: IC-7000 Mic pin-outs
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by K0BG on February 3, 2008
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Lee, the manual clearly states that the maximum current draw for these ports is one amp. They do not say one amp is the total for both ports simultaneously; I said that, as both ports are fed by the same trace.
The internal fuse protects all of the internal circuitry except the finals, and technically they aren't protected except for the fuses in the power cable. This isn't any different than every other radio out there.
Icom clearly states the tuner port is intended for use only by Icom accessories (AH-4 for example). Any other device you plug into the port, is not (technically) covered under warranty.
You might feel Icom should redesign their radio, or warranty any damage caused by using these ports to power non-Icom devices, but legally you don't have a leg to stand on as the Warranty Statement clearly indicates.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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RE: IC-7000 Mic pin-outs
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by W6EM on February 3, 2008
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"K0BG said:
"The internal fuse protects all of the internal circuitry except the finals, and technically they aren't protected except for the fuses in the power cable."
Alan, the internal fuse, if there is indeed only one, provides inadequate protection if a short circuit beyond it would damage any path beyond it. Simple as that.
"This isn't any different than every other radio out there.".
Nope, beg to differ with you. Take a Motorola Maxtrac, a somewhat dated radio, for example. A short on any line beyond the PA carrying 13.5VDC would take out a small pico fuse, I think its rating was/is 3A, and not burn a trace in two. As a "killer" test, a direct short across the reverse protection diode will burn open the PA pc board, but only if the inline 20A fuse is bypassed.
"Icom clearly states the tuner port is intended for use only by Icom accessories (AH-4 for example). Any other device you plug into the port, is not (technically) covered under warranty."
I believe the example cited was the result of a shorted ACC connection, not a bogus tuner emulator. Shorting wires together, irrespective of accessory, should only result in an open fuse, not an open trace on an A+ trace.
"You might feel Icom should redesign their '
radio,....."
Yes, they should. And, either add downstream fuses to properly protect thin traces or add more copper.
"or warranty any damage caused by using these ports to power non-Icom devices, but legally you don't have a leg to stand on as the Warranty Statement clearly indicates."
I haven't read the warranty, but, if the ICOM-provided 13-pin DIN accessory plug is used and the hapless user accidentally shorts a 13.5V A+ wire to ground, that isn't using non-Icom-approved devices, necessarily.
I'm not arguing your point on mickey mouse tune up delay modules, just making the point that a trace burn open beyond a fuse isn't adequate overcurrent protection. Period. No matter what disclaimers and prohibitions are included in the warranty.
73.
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by K8ELR on February 4, 2008
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Thanks Allan for the info. I own several Icom radios and have considered buying a 7000. I am still an Icom fan and plan to buy a 7000 as soon as I get the cash.
73
Jim K8ELR
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IC-7000 Woes
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by N2RJ on February 5, 2008
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N2VZ has released a firmware upgrade for the Turbo Tuner that seems to fix the problems that Alan mentions.
Also, putting a diode on pin 3 in the TT seems to work as well.
My Turbo Tuner is doing fine and so is my 7000.
I dunno, but the BetterRF solution seems overly complicated and expensive. JMHO.
The Turbo Tuner works for me.
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RE: IC-7000 Woes
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by TF2JB on February 9, 2008
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Thank's for an interesting article.
I would like to dispute the statement that the IC-706 is the "most" popular amateur transceiver ever sold, despite more than 70.000 units sold!
Back in 1977 Yaesu had sold in excess of 240.000 FT-101 transceivers... This was before they introduced the FT-101E. Consequently, I would guess that perhaps 250.000-260.000 FT-101's had been sold once the last of the breed was marketed, i.e. the FT-101F series.
73 de TF2JB.
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by W6DLF on February 16, 2008
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Another, though seemingly inocuous design issue, is that the 13 pin DIN accessory jack can receive the plug in two positions, 180 degrees apart. Can't blame Icom for the DIN but I sure wouldn't design with it.
Dave
W6DLF
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