Where Are We Exactly?
Frank MacKenzie-Lamb (NG1I)
on
February 20, 2008
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Hello All,
I have been playing with this thought for quite awhile and I must admit I'm a bit disturbed with the topic I contemplate. I am a member of ARES and the Worcester Emergency Communications Team (MA) www.wect.com . I am retired two years from the police service and during my tenure, and afterwards, I have attended EMS, Police & Fire Chief's meetings, and town emergency meetings where I always bring up the point that Amateur Radio Operators, who are federally licensed, will assist in a crisis with their own equipment at NO cost to the town.
Each and every time I have been rebuked by these agencies we seek to help because what I feel is the confusion amongst those civilian decision makers that amateur means just that… CB's and hence, their response is always "Hey thanks for your time." and then show us out the door with a "We'll call you, don't call us". And here lies the rub...it's the word Amateur to these officials that I think is the problem. Instead of amateur radio operators, IMHO we should use federally licensed and trained operators assisting as a free back up with our own equipment with NO cost to any agency needing assistance.
I know that with the Katrina, etc. QST expounds on our accomplishments radio amateur's provide, and yes some in the areas stricken with constant destructive WX events or frequent call for search parties in other areas of the country, already know the difference between the two terms. But in small parochial towns (like in New England where counties play much of a lesser, if any, role), heads of each town agencies up here don't know the difference between these terms. Heck, the past Governor of our state now running for President was asked by network TV if he would also use or recognize amateur help and the role it plays in similar Katrina emergency situations if we had one...he said "NO certainly not." -- UNTIL he was corrected off camera after his statewide speech. However, the irreversible and massive negative PR damage had been done.
Lastly in Worcester, MA, the 2nd largest city in MA, our WECT team IS the backup emergency communications to the city of Worcester The city has only one trunk line, meaning all public services would be down unless WECT steps in. We have constant drills and through testing with a hams; for example, amateurs at each of the 13 fire stations and Net EOC Net Control, found the best repeater and backup frequencies to use if the city's system goes down...so much so that the WFD is purchasing VHF HR antennas for each station where we can plug our 2/440 rigs, HTs, and be embedded at a station to assist the city if such dire events require it. We also have a myriad of hams that are ARES trained and have a pool of trained amateurs from which to choose when the city requests our help. In this case we are luck...we are in the forefront of the City of Worcester's Emergency plans, and not an afterthought.
In conclusion, it's too bad the very parochial cities and towns in MA and maybe other sections of the country have their own way of uncoordinated, separate methods of emergency planning and the majority of them, being reactive and not proactive, are not interested in hearing about what "amateur radio" can do for them. Even though one would think through QST, amateurs are well known for their free and vital services in other areas of the country they are not because many towns not afflicted don't read QST nor are our services requested and thus not publicized. We preach to the choir. Good, SHORT presentations correctly interpreted terms and other vital info is FREE as outlined in the FCC provisions and guidelines. They must be made more clear and easy to understand.
Looks like we must do a better job of selling ourselves.
Frank MacKenzie-Lamb, NG1I
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by N7YA on February 20, 2008
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This is going to be fun......
Hey, my dad was born in Worcester, and thats where my G-ma passed..cool little town.
Anyway, thats all i wanted to say, i know this will generate some interest, drama and the like. I am curious to see what some of these responses will be during the "sweet spot" of every posting, right after the initial couple of posts and right before the thread hijackers show up and make it a personal battle betwen themselves on a different topic entirely...that little time frame where really good answers and suggestions are thrown out there. Its that little window that i wish would last a lot longer...or would represent us. Lets see what happens, have fun.
73...Adam, N7YA
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by KB1GMX on February 20, 2008
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Frank it's sad indeed.
Framingham is mostly the same disconnect even though they have an excellent group in FARA (Framingham Amateur Radio Assoc) complete with repeaters and other resources located at the MEMA bunker.
Yet, Westford has PART (Police Assistance Radio Team) that has a very strong bond and a long history with the Police and Fire services.
I suspect when I hear this, the lack of coupling of services, theres some history long forgotten or maybe proof by doing is whats required. Whatever is required being ready, organized, active and there if a situation occurs to provide service is paramount. Sooner or later, and hopefully never, it just may make the difference.
Allison
KB1GMX
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by KG4RUL on February 20, 2008
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In Berkeley County South Carolina, ARES is integrated into the County Disaster Management Plan and Communications Plan. Our ARES EC is a Lt. in the Sheriff's Office which helps to give us some standing with law enforcement. Cooperation between the County and ARES has been outstanding.
Berkeley County ARES has participated in numerous disaster drills and real-life call-outs conducted by the Emergency Preparedness Department and other area agencies: http://home.comcast.net/~dzabawa/Operations.htm
The County EOC has recently been remodeled and includes a dedicated Radio Room. To see what has been done go to: http://home.comcast.net/~dzabawa/RadioRoom.htm
We were able to salvage some tower sections that were removed from another installation and erected a 40' tower to support multiple antennas. The County Public Buildings department set the tower and provided bucket trucks to install the antenna arrays: http://home.comcast.net/~dzabawa/AntennaParty.htm
The County Public buildings department built and installed the operating desks. They fabricated the grounding bar and bracing for the tower install.
Berkeley County has provided tower space and power for a dedicated 2M repeater which was provided by County Amateur Operators. This is located on a site at the landfill. Additionally, there is a 150' tower adjacent to the EOC building which has a 2M repeater antenna and a complete, duplicate repeater installation in the associated equipment shed. This gives us a total backup for the main repeater with the flick of a switch.
We have tested our simplex capabilities and have coverage for the entire county along with connectivity with the other area EOC's in Charleston and Dorchester counties.
Dennis Raymond Zabawa - KG4RUL
ARRL SC Section, Public Information Coordinator
Berkeley County SC ARES/RACES, Information Officer
Trident Amateur Radio Club(TARC), Charleston, SC
Community Emergency Response Team, Charleston, SC - Team C9B - Instructor
W4VEC Volunteer Examiner
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by AA1IK on February 20, 2008
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Good article Frank,
Sounds like you have your work cut out for you in Ma.
I am not surprized however. As a former Massachusetts resident,(I escaped, pre Duke), I think you are fighting and uphill battle.
No matter which state you look at, the "Orange Vest" draws a peculiar kind of person, they have a "Big Fish In A Small Pond" (BFIASP) attitude. This is exacerbated by "Orange Vest-wannabees" who try to sound like the Orange Vest people.
This is why I have never again, taken part in emergency communication activities.
A Big Bellyed Boss Man gets his jollies from brow beating volunteers who just want to help. It's a real turn off and many will not return to help after their first venture.
The Orange Vest'ers use "Radio-Speak" to make themselves sound important.
They say things that litter the airwaves with useless chaff, like this:
"Be advised that",
followed by
"And also be advised that"
On and on it goes, using radio jargon adds nothing to the message. It takes longer to say what needs to be said this way, but it makes the Orange Vests feel important.
Voice communication has its place for in close tactical work. ECM work should include data transmission on HF using PSK. No one wants to do this because most of the volunteers are technician class who use 2 meters primarily.
Say what you will, 2 meters is just glorified CB, especially on repeaters. Which brings up another point.
Using repeaters for ECM work is OK if the damage is light, but for big disasters, they are useless with out power.
The whole purpose of ham radio ops in ECM work is that they can be deployed in locations that have no power.
It will take dedicated people to clean up both sides of the street. Good luck!
Ernie Gregoire
de AA1IK
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by KB2DHG on February 20, 2008
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I also share you thoughts on this topic.
I often think of how our Hobby and Service can be more understood and the public made aware of it. QST although a great magazine is not seen by the avarage Joe. Even if the magazine was to be displayed in the stores. We need to have our service put out there. The best way is to use it in TV shows and Movies... People need to see it and how it works.
I am sure if there was a movie or TV show that used AMATEUR RADIO in a POSITIVE way, it would spark more interest in the public eye.
Unfortunately, we do not get the coverage and attention we justly deserve.
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by K1CJS on February 20, 2008
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It wouldn't be necessary to 'sell' ourselves if we actually showed people--especially the city or town officials--what we could and can do. How many public service events do you have up in Worcester? How many of them are assisted by ham radio operators, in setting up, running, and the aftermath of those events? That is the main way we can show what we can do, and is our 'in' with the city or town officials.
If we show those officials how we can help out, chances are when help is needed and we're called we can do what is needed of us. If we can show them we can fill a need they may have by simply doing the comms for those events professionally--and competently--that is by far the best way to 'sell' ourselves to them.
Keep in mind that even one ham showing up where he isn't needed or wanted, getting in the way--or especially causing trouble--shows the officials that ham radio operators can be a problem. The last thing they want is another problem on top of the one they have. Also remember that the 'problem' ham (the term 'whacker' comes to mind here) doesn't even have to be one of your group! That one reason is the main obstacle we have to overcome.
We have to overcome issues of both public relations and dicipline. It isn't good enough to show what we can do, we've got to show we can follow the instructions of the city and or town officials as well, and make sure our group shows they can too. Talk about walking a fine line!
As far as the issue of area, I think I'm close enough to you that I know a little of what you're up against. After all, Fall River isn't that far away, and I was the EMA Radio/RACES officer here.
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by KC8ZEV on February 20, 2008
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If a natural disaster strikes, or worse, a enemy attack, don't expect much out of your government. It will be too busy trying to figure out whose juristiction certain functions of government belong to. The confusion puts officials into C.Y.A. mode. After the political fallout from Katrina, no Federal, state, county or city government official wants any bad press stating "they did the wrong thing". So they will wait. And wait. And wait for the "right time" for action. Amateur radio operators have a bad reputation as a look at me saving the world police/firefighter/ems wannabes. Sure, there are some wack-a-doos out there, but to put that label on all of us is incorrect. You can give them all the examples of how Amateur radio operators have bailed them out in the past, only to be shown to the door. My advice is to bypass the government..........take care of your family and yourself first. The only government branch that has all the resources to deal with disaster is the military.........they are not going use those resources on you. Complete lack of preparation and the falsehood that the government will save you is what doomed so many during Katrina.
Take care of those most important to you.........you will wait an eternity for the "government" to help you if things get bad.
73
KC8ZEV
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by K0BG on February 20, 2008
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We have a similar situation here in Roswell, NM. Considering how well connected the amateur group in Ruidoso, is (just 60 miles west), and happenings in the past, I'm convinced it is the city's EC that's the stumbling block.
Having sat in on a couple of EC planning meetings, the situation would be comical if it wasn't so pathetic. It is a case of vast misunderstanding, which can't be addressed without replacing the block. That isn't going to happen if for no other reason than tenure.
Like so many other cities and towns across America, until some really dastardly event occurs, the situation will remain stagnate, the efforts of the ARRL notwithstanding.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by N3NUE on February 20, 2008
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Frank,
Good topic. Unfortunately, they'll ignore us until they need us, and then they'll come hat in hand, probably not embarrassed though, and ask for our help. Like good operators, however, we'll assist our towns and neighbors without saying I told you so, and go about our business. Maybe then we'll get at least a bit of respect........
John
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by W6TH on February 20, 2008
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.
Bravo KC8ZEV, nothing can be truer.
My advice is to bypass the government..........take care of your family and yourself first. The only government branch that has all the resources to deal with disaster is the military.........they are not going use those resources on you. Complete lack of preparation and the falsehood that the government will save you is what doomed so many during Katrina.
Take care of those most important to you.........you will wait an eternity for the "government" to help you if things get bad.
.....................And...........................
I approve this message.
W6TH
.:
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by WD6S on February 20, 2008
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Katrina as an example of what happens when the government and public is unprepared and waits for someone to bail them out. San Diego experienced some problems in the 2003 Cedar fires and worked to correct them at the State and local levels, including the professionals (police and fire) and amateur radio among many groups. When the 2007 fires came and resulted in a larger evacuation than Katrina, the authorities and the people responded in an organized, efficient, and responsible manner. Of course there were mistakes made, and the usual idiots who try to take advantage of the situation (5 illegal immigrants were arrested stealing supplies from one of the evacuation shelters). It takes government leaders who believe that they are responsible for their constituency. When you can get that to happen, then the participation of volunteers in emergency planning and operations will be gratefully accepted.
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Question
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by TANAKASAN on February 20, 2008
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I am going to use the USA as an example here but it applies just as easily to Europe.
Why are radio amateurs needed to provide emergency communications?
The armed forces of the USA have an almost unlimited budget and access to facilities which most radio amateurs can only dream of. Hell, they even have their own satellites and seperate (secure) internet. The Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines and Coastguard together have MILLIONS of US dollars worth of equipment and most of it is built a lot better than an FT-2000 or anything else from the land of the rising sun.
So, let's assume that another hurricane hits land and New Orleans is in a world of hurt. Should the local emergency services a) call out all the local hams to provide comms handling or b) call the Pentagon and get the professionals in?
Don't get me wrong, ARES, RAYNET and the rest of the amateur emergency networks do a good job but they should not be needed. The professionals are better prepared and have better kit.
Tanakasan
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RE: Question
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by KD5RGJ on February 20, 2008
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RONALD REAGAN SAID IT BEST. THE MOST FRIGHTENING THING YOU WILL EVER HEAR IS "I'M FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND I'M HERE TO HELP.
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RE: Question
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by KJ4AGA on February 20, 2008
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Do not expect anything from "our" government. The people "we" vote for are not your average Americans. They don't have a clue whats really going on. That being said, again we are Americans. Americans come together in times of hardship, i.e. WX events. When I tell people with scanners that they can hear the local storm spotters, they are trained well on a local repeater 10-15 minutes before it's on am/fm radio or t.v. they act like because the people aren't looking at a radar or computer monitor that their input can't be trusted. When around here, us Hams report something, I hear the weather man say close to about the same thing in the next 10-15 minutes. When t.v. and radio stations are gone, who will be left? Us! Even if our houses are gone, more than likely, we still have mobile rigs, and ht, or base stations ran from batteries. We help out our fellow Americans, something most Americans don't even do anymore. I don't care the way they treat us because someday they will need us. I think you all know what I'm saying.
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RE: Question
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by W5ESE on February 20, 2008
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> And here lies the rub...it's the word Amateur to
> these officials that I think is the problem. Instead
> of amateur radio operators, IMHO we should use
> federally licensed and trained operators
Please, no.
I'm an AMATEUR RADIO OPERATOR and proud of it.
Why is it that these days, we wring our hands over
being designated 'amateur', yet back when the
Amateur Extra license was a half step below the
First Class Radiotelegraph Operator's license,
no one cared?
Scott
W5ESE
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by WG7X on February 20, 2008
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Fred,
There is only one real reason why Amateur Radio shines in emergencies: We are there before, during, and after the emergency.
It's just that simple. If a natural disaster hits your area, and you still have the ability to put out a signal, then by default, you are the emergency communicator.
That is the simple reason why hams have been involved in emergency communications.
The same reasoning applies to anyone in an emergency area who has an alternate communications method.
So for those who want to believe that the only reason Amateur radio exists is to provide "EMCOMM" I say no, emcomm is a byproduct of our existence, not the reason for our existence.
If you retired from the police force and still wanna play cops and robbers well and good, but don't expect all of us to play along!
73 Gary
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by N8PVW on February 20, 2008
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I have been on both sides of this issue for many years. As a professional in the emergency management field and a federal employee and as a volunteer. A huge problem is that emergency managers at all levels get little or zero training in managing volunteers and volunteer agencies. Another problem is the siren's song of technology. Mr. Technologly gonna come and save us all. The problem with high tech is it never fails to fail. Remember the midwest floods of the late 90's. I spent hundreds of hours orbiting over the scenes of carnage in a Cessna 172 with an airborne repeater because Mr.Digital and Mr.High Tech were under several feet of water. I invested over 30 years and many thousands of dollars in the Civil Air Patrol especially the comms program until the NTIA raised it's ugly head and destroyed what was probably one of the best ecomm programs in the country. I also know the pain of showing up at a SAREX or even the real thing and sitting around for hours only to be told "go home we don't need you". The only excuse for this is bad management and it destroys the volunteer spirit. It is only recently that we have become dependent on the Feds to come save us after disaster strikes. This whole thing started back in the 60's after the big Alaskan quake. Until then disaster management and recovery was handled at local and state levels and primarily by volunteers. Forget about the military. In case you have not noticed we are fighting a war which has all branches of our military stretched to the breaking point. I have two kids active duty in combat one with three tours in Iraq and they point this out to me frequently. Military comms is not there to save or serve civilians. It's purpose is to be the voice of command and win wars not feed unprepared civilians after a hurricaine. And get off the "tech license" thing will you please? I took and passed the commercial 2nd class radiotelegraph exam at age 17 while in high school training to be an aircraft mechanic. I also passed the army code test at over 30 wpm. I chose to become a tech class ham in order to have the frequencies for ecomm work. As someone who is at least partially responsible within my federal agency for disaster response and mitigation I am well aware of the problems and the needs. We really do need amateur radio and well trained amateur ops in time of disaster. I like you just don't know how to get the suits up in their comfy offices to wake up before a really huge disaster hits. Katrina was just a taste. We need to stop fighting and bickering over licenses and privileges and start working together like hams did back in the day. I am a fairly new ham but have been interested since the age of 6 when my uncle W8JVS got me fired up. These were a different breed of cat. Extras back then actually cared about novice and tech operators. In the meantime we fight and bicker and the NTIA and the FCC will destroy valuable programs like CAP and MARS and the Coast Guard Aux and eventually amateur radio. I am all for high tech. It's a great asset and does save many lives---until it's under 10 feet of water or the power goes out. Just my nickle's worth.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by KC0SHZ on February 20, 2008
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I don't think its the word "Amateur", as much as it is the experience that they have with us.
We have Skywarn training every spring that fills Boystown's conference center. And by July, we have mobilizations that get 3 people out.
We have ARES training that gets people out in droves, but when we need something, its really hard, if not impossible to get anyone out.
We have an EMA that sees enough of the potential of amateur radio to invest in it, but they also see enough of the weakness of amateur radio not to depend on it.
We are the problem. If we want to be taken seriously, we have to accept that showing up for some training event is nice, but showing up for the real events is mandatory if we want them to depend on us.
Part of the problem of EMCOMM in amateur radio is that we consider it a "volunteer" opportunity instead of a civic obligation. We are federally licensed. We have, by this license, more authority than most broadcast license holders. Afterall, we can use any frequency in an emergency, even broadcast bands. They can't even use other channels in their band. They are obliged to act in the interest of the community. The FCC counts these efforts in their relicensure. It should do so for ours.
Community service is part of the deal we make. That is why we get exemptions for our antennas, and get the cool license plates. We need to step up. All Hams should be expected to do their part.
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We're lost... We need breadcrumb network...
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by K4RAF on February 20, 2008
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Simple answer: The basic "handholding" required under Part 97 makes it nearly impossible to get close to effective anymore. In fact, the rules require you to be in between the end users. That scenario no longer meshes with reality, as defined post 9/11 & layered access plans...
Digital, portable device systems & networks could be a solution but no one seems interested in ham radio. The prevailing "solution" is slow speed HF text where you needs 50lbs of equipment & 50' of space...
I can get a 2.4GHz 54mbit wifi radio on an SD card for $40 & plug it into a $150 Treo 700wx & would have some interesting applications for such a mash up... Handheld weather radar & messaging, keyboard or stylus, blooth a GPS for APRS. I use an iQue GPS with blooth. Perhaps APRS via wifi... then add the aspect of data backhaul on carrier (only IF ALL ELSE FAILED), crossing over to an access point via SD card.
Hmmm... EMCOMM would know what to do with it but amateurs could only take pride in providing limited roles in the actual operation... A sort of "breadcrumb network"... Google it...
Anyone else pick up what I'm putting down?
K4RAF
wifidx@gmail.com
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by K6CRC on February 20, 2008
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This is a good discussion, especially since the posters have basically ignored several people trying to turn it into the usual flame war. Maybe eHam has grown up.
Hams are only useful if the locals have integrated us into the standing plans for emergencies. Fire, EMS, and Police are trained to a set of standards, and are required to maintain those standards. In the places where I have lived, that applies to reserves also. What is the 'standard' of training for hams?
How do the local governments know hams are qualified? Have they had a recent physical? Have they completed first aid classes? Do they have any nationally acknowledged communications training, other than the Tech license.
Here, all you need is a Ham license and to sign a waiver, and you are a carded 'Disaster Worker'. Someone here remarked that they clicked through three online FEMA classes, so they are qualified to be a disaster worker. That is scary. I wouldn't expect anyone to put a unknown ham into a critical situation.
My local ham group is doing a good job, but how would the average police chief or mayor know what to expect if they called on hams in an emergency? Where is the 'standard' of training? I think it is needed; without a standard, we end up with the wacko-ham syndrome talked about in these forums.
The ARRL is a good organization, but seems to be fossilized when it comes to taking a lead on standards for ecomm training. Yes, I DID take a Continuing Education course from the ARRL. It was tedious and poorly designed. The first one was all I could stand.
A friend is involved with the Coast Guard Auxiliary, and that appears to be a good model for civilians being utilized in potential emergency situations. I have heard similar things about CAP. The models exist, hams must want to change.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by WB2WIK on February 20, 2008
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Worcester has a lot to learn: They are harboring the typical New England attitude which I hated when I lived in Boston.
Look here:
http://www.lacdcs.com/aboutus-main.html
for tips on how to build an effective disaster communications system based entirely on amateur radio.
Our "small town" of L.A., with its 4 million people, and our little county of L.A. with its 11 million people, use and depend on LA's amateur DCS services daily.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by AC7NA on February 20, 2008
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"Amateur" has a negative connotation, only if you don't explain its context. I much prefer the term "licensed amateur" over "ham" when explaining our capabilities to EMS or local government groups.
As far as cooperation w/ local EMS...it's more about budgets and turf wars than anything else. These groups would rather spend more money on elaborate trunking and sat systems (that generally fail or are overloaded in a real disaster) than save the taxpayers some change and incorporate ARES/RACES into their disaster plans and justify the budget savings.
I do agree w/ other posters who have criticized the "orange vested wannabes"...not much to say there. They've always been there and always will be.
Just my 2 cents..
Brian AC7NA
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by W4CBL on February 20, 2008
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It's really very simple: EC's want assets they directly control; full time. They really don't want to have to use "Amateurs", federally licensed and CERT-trained, or not.
Add to this the "orange vest wanabees" and the puss-gutted unwashed types that show up uninvited to even the smallest event, and you can easily see how the attitudes of EC's are formed.
I am a member of two ARES groups: I live right on a county line. For me it is really simple: I'll attend training events when invited, and I'll assist in an actual situation the best that I can - again, WHEN INVITED. Since I am a nurse, by profession, I have been detailed by the EC and by my employer to oversee the hospital's "connection" to the emergency communication system. However, I sure don't go around injecting myself, unwanted and unasked, into the functions of a government agency!
We all know just how inept and ineffective a goobermint agency can be in a real emergency. Our best service can be provided AFTER the goobermint has lost control; by stepping in and DOING the job - without the personalities and "turf wars" that are inevitably engaged in during "before-the-need" coordination with those agencies.
My advice: be prepared for emergencies, have your gear ready, and offer to assist when the need arises. Otherwise, stay out of the way of the "professionals". We ARE "amateurs", after all.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by KG6WOU on February 20, 2008
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From my perspective as a local RACES officer, there are several layers of issues and no one agency can take all the blame. Money will not and can not solve all of these problems.
US: Well, we have roughly 150 people on the roster, of whom, 35 or so [and the same ones more or less every time] who actually show up to the meetings or check in on our nets [We have four nets on one day of the week so you can check in several ways]. There are many people on the roster who I have never met in person or on the radio. Can we count on them? I don't know. We have many members w/out appropriate radio gear - their entire shack is a 2 meter handheld with a rubber duck and an orange jacket.
We need to do more training and need to made some attendance standards so that we can have a bit more confidence in the ability of each responder.
EOC: The just cannot or will not work us into their training scenarios - we go to their drills, provide people to man stations, and are left cooling our heels in front of our radios - we make sure we have all stations going then wait for nothing. My opinion is that we are kept around for the 150 bodies we have on the roster. They do not do any real training for us, they want us doing the on line courses [which are worthless, IMHO].
I will say this though, they have gone a far bit along in getting 2m/70cm gear in most public safety buildings for our use if needed. And at least we DO have some meetings.
Sheriff: Our county had a problem with a couple of bad apples in the local SAR team so they decided that all county volunteers would have to meet one standard for background check, etc. The old standard was a NCIC check, FBI fingerprint check and you were good to go. [Please note that our RACES people do NOT have solo access to any public buildings - we don't have keys or door codes to anything, we have to be let in by someone with a key]. The result is that the new standard is the same that an officer has to pass, including a very high stress polygraph test that one member said he would not have done if he had known how it was going to go. End result? We will not be able to add any new members - I would not do it to re-up if they decide it's necessary.
My arguement against the 'one standard' is that we RACES people are not going to be dealing with potential crime sites or have any access to things like evidence that could create problems - as I noted, we don't have keys or access codes anyway.
It also seems to me that no one knows when to call us and what to have us do. Once our county trunking radio system goes down, they are going to expect us to cover for a 30 frequency digital system with our equipment and it's not going to happen.
PLUS they are pushing all the rest of the EMS people to get their Amateur ticket, which I feel is counterproductive because these folks don't know how to use their radios, don't know the requirements and won't add to the solution when it all hits the fan. I'm sure they mean well, but they won't have me drive a fire engine just because I can drive a car will they?
Around here, they had given up almost entirely on HF, I had to start an HF net for those of us with the appropriate licenses and desire. I'm working hard to get Tech's to put up 10 meter antenna.
What I'm doing is keeping care of my own systems, keeping my skills polished. All I can do.
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by N1GXC on February 20, 2008
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OK my brother (retired NH State Police) what is it that you don't understand about the political hacks that run local, state and federal governments. You have many years 'on the job' so your expectations should be very low. When it comes to communications most agencies are clueless. I now live in Lakeland Fl. where the local government really does appreciate the talents of amateur operators. They gave us our own console in the emergency management room. This is an exception to the rule.
Growing up in New England, you've heard the expression "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear". So don't sweat it. Let the ignorant SOB's die in the cold darkness.
Danny WZ1P
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by WA1RNE on February 20, 2008
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The message I'm getting from your article is a bit confusing.
On one hand, you indicate that you are a member of the WECT and are being supplied with radios, antennas and operating facilities, so you are being funded by the city and the Worcester Emergency Management Agency.
Then you say:
"Each and every time I have been rebuked by these agencies we seek to help because what I feel is the confusion amongst those civilian decision makers that amateur means just that… CB's and hence, their response is always "Hey thanks for your time." and then show us out the door with a "We'll call you, don't call us"
As part of the Worcester Emergency Communications Team, you and your team leadership seem to be working directly with the Worcester Emergency Management Director - which by the way, is a RACES organization first along with those who are ARES members.
Both are utilized, but RACES is a requirement for cities and towns in Massachusetts since the Massachusetts Emergency Management Agency (MEMA) runs it's amateur operations using RACES protocols.
You also indicate that you are considered a "back-up" for city public services, which by design should certainly be part of your role.
But Emergency Management and it's communications network should be activated along side of other public service agencies in times of city-wide emergencies where shelters and coordination of other services are required; i.e. coordination of other agency services like the Red Cross, up to the minute status of hospital emergency rooms, utility outages and prioritizing restoration service, etc., etc. - as well as coordination with the STATE via MEMA, since their services may also be required by the city.
As a suggestion, have you or the leadership of WECT discussed these topics with the Emergency Management Director?
It's not clear to me from the city that the Director has appointed a Communications Officer, which may help WECT gain some additional visibility.
http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eopsmodulechunk&L=3&L0=Home
&L1=Public+Safety+Agencies&L2=Massachusetts+Emergency+
Management+Agency&sid=Eeops&b=terminalcontent&csid=Eeops
&f=mema_emd
.....WA1RNE
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by N9ESH on February 20, 2008
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Gee, now I know why the company that sells amateur radio badges is still in business. I wonder if they sell orange vests, too?
I do respect the majority of people who put their hobby on hold and volunteer their time and effort to help out in an emergency. However, a few lunatic HT totin’ chicken banders can ruin all that work.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by WB2WIK on February 20, 2008
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L.A. County Sheriff's Dep't. owns and operates several active amateur repeaters on all the VHF-UHF bands, from mountaintop sites. They are all "open," have emergency power, and are monitored by LACSD personnel. Their cost is covered by the taxpayers.
In disasters, they are very well used.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by WA3SKN on February 20, 2008
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Gee, and our county is helping us (the Anne Arundel Radio Club) to make our clubhouse a "Secondary Emergency Operations Center" to backup their prime EOC, I guess we must be doing something wrong!
-Mike.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by W6TH on February 20, 2008
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.
L.A. County Sheriff's Dep't. owns and operates several active amateur repeaters on all the VHF-UHF bands, from mountaintop sites. They are all "open," have emergency power, and are monitored by LACSD personnel. Their cost is covered by the taxpayers.
Their cost is covered by the taxpayers. What else? Whose radio equipment do they purchase?
Some body is making a buck out of this, could it be Motorola or General Electric?
.:
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by KB3HJK on February 20, 2008
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To AA1IK:
Regarding your post on Orange Vests:
I have never read anything more accurate on E-Ham. You nailed it! Listening to all the radioese on these repeaters is just too much to take, so I simply don't tune them in anymore.
Kevin
KB3HJK
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by AD5TD on February 20, 2008
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It only take one "disaster" to show them how vulnerable they really are. Happened in my little county. A class TWO (96-110 mph) hurricane that took out ALL communications in the county. It even hit 20 miles away from the county seat and all land line telephones (jammed), cellphones (jammed, power, towers), Internet (county wide wifi, the company unhooked the county feed THREE DAYS before predicted landfall!), public service radio (sheriffs, fire, police) all went down. That's when the Sheriff said, we need amateur radio here in the Courthouse! We got money from "Homeland Security" and built out our radio room.
Some DO appreciate you...
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by K8YZK on February 20, 2008
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"We'll call you, don't call us". And here lies the rub...it's the word Amateur to these officials that I think is the problem. Instead of amateur radio operators, IMHO we should use federally licensed and trained operators "
I am a trained operator, but I wasn't trained by the FCC, and never was. So I think that is a misleading statement. My training came while in the Military, and their training is different then what is used by the local ARES/RACES group, there is a lot of things they do that are the same but a lot more different.
I also work for a police department, and how we do things are different also let alone the difference between local departments/county/state, look at the problems MD/VA/DC had after 9/11 with the inability to communicate with each other.
A lot of the ARES/RACES groups and including skywarn, the people are in it for ego, and the pat on the back.
I have to agree with one of the other poster, take care of your family first, and forget the help/lack of it from the FEDS.
Kurt
K8YZK
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by KE6AEE on February 20, 2008
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The times they are a changing. There is money out there for local govt to buy new communications gear that makes them more self suffcient communications wise. There is more secure digital and satelite available for the public sector.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by N6AJR on February 20, 2008
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I guess my biggest problem with the whole emergency team aspect of Ham radio is the competition between volunteer agencies. I am a member of the local ACS which is the emcomm arm of the county. we are several smaller towns that all work together for the common good.
Locally there is also the Red Cross , Civil Air Patrol and Search and Rescue, and the local Ham club (VVRC) . There is sevral members that are mambers of all three RC, ACS,VVRC, CAP and SAR.
We have invited the Red Cross to speak at out VVRC club meetings and als have had the ACS folks out for a meeting.. The proble=m is they don't work together.
As a combined resourse there is qa lot of potential here. but the red cross doest validate the ACS group and the ACS group does not validate the RED cross etc.
Not everyone in every group is necessiarlly a Ham. and there are a lot of Tech only hams in there too, but it is the Traing and simulated emergencies responses that bring expertice with in each group.
So perhaps they can all eventually get approved for each others requirements, but some how I doubt it. the Red Cross has their backround checks and the ACS has theirs m,( doun by the count sherrifs) and so on.
Some how they all forget there is only one resourse, us, and perhaps they will eventually see us as useable in more than one mode.
After spending 20 od years in emergency service, I know how important Good Communicatios is for safe and expediant conclusion to problems. some day perhaps they will see the proof is in the pudding, not is who brings what ingrediants.
a trained ham is useful. an untrained "wannbe" ham is a liability. BTW the biggest reason for the differences between the groups is that one insurance won't cover the other group because they didn't jump through all the same hoops. go figure.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by W6TH on February 20, 2008
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.
It must be strange to the old timer hams back before ww2 and during ww2 as things were handled perfectly and worked in precision.
We used the ten meter band for our races, etc., and everything went along well with fire, police and the local government, even allowing we hams two gallons of gasoline for our daily/weekly services.
Guess times have changed, I have noticed, but now know that in this day and age it is sort of troublesome to get together as a group and making sense of what is to be done, more so as to how it is done.
I still say there is no such thing as security and the best protection will be at your own hands and the protection of each and every family.
In an extreme emergency, I will be available and am ready, brain, body and soul and every man for himself will be considered.
Ham radio is fun even in a crisis of danger. Not so much fun on the day of Pearl Harbor and no one was prepared and ready.
W6TH
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by W4LGH on February 20, 2008
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First off I have to 2nd this comment...
W6TH said..."Talk to Jim, N2EY, he has the solution for everything."
... Or at least thinks he does! Yes sir that's a piece of work for sure. He will get here sooner or later, as he never misses a chance to try and show everyone how smart he is!
The next comment is not meant to tick anyone off, but after being the ARES EC in my county for 4 years, I am completely burned out on it. I resigned my position almost 2 years ago, and I haven't missed a thing. Most ARES groups do it to themselves, as far as getting along with others. My group showed up with Orange vests, one had a yellow light bar oh his truck, 3 or 4 HT's, and not knowing how to operate them... It doesn't project a very positive image.
LIke someone else said, the Fed's have their equipment, the State has their equipment, and the Local govt has theres. True, they probably won't talk to each other, but thats another story, we can post in another thread. All 3 govts have PAID officials to handle whatever situation comes up, again, right wrong or indifferent, they do. ARES is not privy to all the classes & training that the officials get, so you have another clash there.
Stay home, make sure your back up equipment works, and handle whatever emergency traffic comes your way.
This is what I decided to do when I resigned. I have better equipment than the EOC has, and better array of antennas, including emergency backup antennas in my attic. Hole house generator backup power that will run the house for up to 2 weeks, plenty of battery backup as well. I can stay home, manage my own affairs, take care of my wife and our animals, not have to sleep on the floor in the EOC, and still work emergency traffic.
Let you group be known, but let them come to you, and they will, when the sh*t really hits the fan, but as long as they have ANY communications, you are wasting your time.
You know Ham radio has a saying..." When ALL else fails..there is Amateur radio!" The key word there is "ALL". Trust me, when "ALL" fails they will welcome you with open arms.
Anyway ,thats my 2 cents worth from an EX-ARES EC!
73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
Now I am gonna sit back and wait for ole Jimmy N2EY, to show up and give everyone all the answers! I can hardly wait.... (Yawn)
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by W7NWH on February 20, 2008
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Tanakasan
What about the rest of us? Human resource radio traffic? Internet dies? Backup to the backup??
Amateur radio is as relavant today as it was 100 years ago.
Military and commercial emcomm is really none of our business. We provide backup to commercial emcomm when we're needed and honestly we're needed alot.
Amateur radio in name only.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by ONAIR on February 21, 2008
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These civil servants are getting paid to communicate during emergencies. They don't want a bunch of volunteers working for free to show them up! Their jobs are at stake here. But they do have a lot of nerve making fun of hams. I was at an emergency once, and the pros were making comments like "Get a load of these old fools walking around with their walkie talkies"! "Can't these old fogies find something else to do with their free time and social security checks?" The lack of respect for the good citizen hams who are just trying to help is astonishing.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by W4LGH on February 21, 2008
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Come on guys..ARES is just another ploy of the ARRL to get new members! When I first took on the EC job, I thought I was doing something important too, but the 1st 2 years netted nothing. Then we had 4 hurricanes in a row, shelters were activated, all the county "big wigs" were ushered into the War room, along with a bank of paid personal to man the phone lines and other govt communications. ARES, well we were asked to setup between the shelters and the EOC..
our Job, to communicate the head count of the shelter every hour and post it on a whiteboard. Wow..we had something official to do. Later I found out that the county employees in the shelter were sending the head counts thru "other" county communications, along with other special needs for the shelter. So we really weren't needed, but the "Smarter Govt Employees" found something to keep us occupied and out of their hair. Thats when I started to see the TRUE light!
The following and my last year, I listened to people bitch about having nothing to do, so I set up some research projects, some test drills, etc., then I had to listen to them bitch about HAVING to do something, so I said the hell with it. Resigned from ARES, dropped my "required" membership from the ARRL and decided to just go "play radio". Don't need the ARRL or ARES to do that.
Do what ya gotta do. If you feel you have to stay involved and fight it out, more power to you, but I am afraid "That dog just won't hunt!"
73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by KA1OS on February 21, 2008
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WA1RNE,
Regarding your question about what Frank is describing, I think he is contrasting Worcester with other towns and cities with which he has worked. Many of the larger cities tend to have better working relationships with their amateur radio emergency groups than the smaller towns. You might expect that small towns would work harder to cultivate support in order to leverage their lesser resources but they also have fewer people to manage emergency operations and planning (in additional to their normal fire & police duties). Also, New England is not in the 'natural disaster' capital of the world. Most events are local and don't wipe out the communication infrastructure across a wide region. Many towns (and town managers) simply don't plan for the very rare events. Well, some do and also include amateur radio in their plans, so it's not a completely lost cause, but it takes a lot of work and education.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by K2GW on February 21, 2008
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I don't think the name is that important; it's reaching from the top down to sell Amateur Radio through their own hierarchy.
In New Jersey, it's a lot easier because a county's Emergency Operations Plan (EOP) won't be approved by the State OEM unless it has a Comunication Annex that includes Amateur Radio capability for backup communications. Without an approved EOP, the county is not eligible for any state and federal disaster money!
So every county OEM has a designated Radio Officer and fully operational Amateur station capable of working on 80 Meters, Two Meter simplex, 220 MHZ access to a NJSP funded statewide repeater and an APRS station for text messaging. On the last Monday of each month, the NJSP OEM EOC runs mandatory nets for all four band/modes and participation by each county is noted and goes toward approval of their next communication annex.
These stations have proved useful during blizzards, the 9/11 attacks and blackouts, when regular commercial comms failed or were overloaded. Because they are tested once a month using permanent equipment and antennas, quick activation is easy and local hams know how to use them.
Incidently, we worked that way with the Red Cross statewide hierarchy to install VHF stations at all chapters and run similar monthly nets testing those stations.
The NJSP OEM also sponsors semiannual meetings of all of the radio officers and leaders of related organization such as MARS and SATERN.
So if you work your way from top down through the Emergency Management hierarchy, it's a lot easier to get Amateur Radio accepted.
73
Gary Wilson, K2GW
ARRL Southern New Jersey Section Emergency Coordinator
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by K6CRC on February 21, 2008
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ONAIR SAID "These civil servants are getting paid to communicate during emergencies. They don't want a bunch of volunteers working for free to show them up! Their jobs are at stake here. But they do have a lot of nerve making fun of hams. I was at an emergency once, and the pros were making comments like "Get a load of these old fools walking around with their walkie talkies"! "Can't these old fogies find something else to do with their free time and social security checks?" The lack of respect for the good citizen hams who are just trying to help is astonishing."
You point is (I think) that hams deserve respect. If they are well trained (first aid, basic rescue training, communications standards in the area), in decent physical condition to survive the long hours at the chosen assignment, have the right equipment and know how to use it (charged batteries, correct antennas,backup HTs), AND the local authorities believe they can DEPEND on these volunteers, you are correct. If the hams are lacking in the above, then the comments are mean-spirited, but not altogether wrong.
Again, if something goes wrong, who gets the blame? The government and emergency officials. The press is blind to the facts if there is a "story". Witness Katrina. Ignore the local screw-ups, we can get Bush. That could work in reverse, depending on the mood and political leanings of the local reporters.
I find the tone of many of the posters here simply reinforce the negative stereotypes held by some governments and emergency officials, and indeed the general public. Out of shape, old right wing looneys in beat up vans and trucks with antennas and lights all over them.
It makes the job of the MANY hams who DO act as professionals, and ARE prepared to help their communities significantly harder. Although I am not involved much, the local ARES group has done a lot of good, and the local Police utilizes them quite a bit.
Hams need national training standards, similar to USCGA, or the quoted comment above will continue to haunt us. I don't know if ARRL will pick up the ball, or a new organization will. Maybe it is a different existing organization, such as the Red Cross, or the Salvation Army, I don't know.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by WI7B on February 21, 2008
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"And here lies the rub...it's the word Amateur to these officials that I think is the problem. Instead of amateur radio operators, IMHO we should use federally licensed and trained operators assisting as a free back up with our own equipment with NO cost to any agency needing assistance."
NO. It's not the name. It's not the buzz, or come-on. It's the the hot-and-cold experience EMCOMMs have had with amateur operators.
There is no uniform ham operator. Some General licensees don't know how to install a proper dipole, while some Tech licensees work in electronic technologies, or are professional first responders, with a valuable knowledge and ICS experience.
The key in every EMCOMM installation I have worked is not whether the operator/dispatcher is a licensed amateur or part of ARES/ARRL, but what the INDIVIDUAL brings to the position as part of a complete EMCOMM organization.
INDIVIDUAL competence is not licensed by the FCC.
73,
---* Ken
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by N4VNZ on February 21, 2008
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During the recent tornadoes here in West Tennessee, one thing that broke the tension while huddled in the interior bathroom with my pets, xyl, and motorcycle helmets was the comedy of our local "orange vests" on the 2 meter "skywarn" net. The radioese was so thick you could cut it with a chainsaw...
"Be advised", "be advised that you have been advised", be aware of the danger, as well as those who will be "destinated" at the EOC with and "ETA" of 20 minutes, etc. ad nauseum...
Not to mention the inane check-ins. "This is KI4XXX, and it is calm here...(oh, I mean at my "QTH") I don't see any damage", blah, blah...
"I am trying to get to xxx street, what is the best route"...
I guess you all have heard similar stuff...
All the while a local University was being destroyed (no casualties by the Grace of God)...and many of these , I am sorry to say, ignorant hams, cluttering up the repeater with useless "information" to the "net control", etc.
This is mainly why I only operate HF nowadays...I'll leave our "public safety" to the orange vests and patch-jacket wearing, "emergency" license-plate bearing, HT toting (I especially love the ones who repeatedly try to hit the repeater out of range, and keep trying, and trying, and trying...even though they are told that they cannot be copied...repeatedly) wannabees...
Dave
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by K0RGR on February 21, 2008
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In our floods last summer, it was a very 'mixed bag'.
We sent two hams to one of the worst hit cities. Upon arrival, the mayor ordered them out of City Hall - there weren't going to be any hams in there, they were told. A short time later, he came looking for them - after he discovered that he did not have any way of communicating with the county government or anybody else!
Another local town, however, contacted us, and asked for a number of hams to shadow their officials - the city's phones and radios were out. We also had a ham at the REd Cross shelter in that town.
Our Red Cross folks found out that cellphones won't work in their shelters at the bottom of some of these river canyons. We had hams with 2 meter rigs driving between these places to pass messages.
In spite of all the drills and practice we have here, we were still hit with many unanticipated problems.
Get involved with your local ARES group. Get equipped and keep your gear ready to go. You just never know...
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Where Are THEY Exactly?
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by AI2IA on February 21, 2008
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We are where we have always beem. The real question is where are THEY exactly?
Homeland Security funds?
Matching State and County funds?
Bureaucratic Parasites smelling money?
Hi, there! We're from the government. Get out of our way.
I'm the local government emcomm mavin. This guy here is my cousin, and those guys over there are my good buddies. We don't need any citizen "amateurs."
If you feel that you have to "market" your amateur radio emergency services, then there something wrong in your local and state government. Most people have a very good idea of associating ham radio with emergency communication.
Don't blame it all on the fat, bald, pot-bellied, orange-vested old guys. You may be darn glad to have one of them help you out of a jam some day in spite of them annoying you now. BLAME IT ON THE MEDIA BRAIN WASHED MORONS WHO LOOK TO GOVERNMENT TO SOLVE ALL THEIR PROBLEMS.
AMERICA WORKS WHEN WE DO.
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by KD6NIG on February 21, 2008
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I personally think this whole "marketing" thing is the reason why we ARE ignored.
Most emergency services know we are here. The ones who want to have active groups of communicators have them setup and coordinated already.
I think what ruins it for most of us and causes people to look at us oddly are those few guys that think if an agency refuses to look into using us, they think its because they are uneducated, and then they try to throw all this technology at the supposed problem, when in fact they either have something they feel will suffice is in place, or for whatever reason they just don't WANT our help.
Then people continue to push and it becomes worse, because like a salesman you've told no a few times, you begin to not only say no, you get angry doing so, and the rift grows even further.
I think we would be better off BEING prepared-doing all we can possible to be available to communicate, and working together ourselves to be so, but if we go to a agency and offer our help and they say no, BACK OFF and prepare yourself for any disaster that may come-if we're prepared and able to sustain ourselves for a few days, that takes pressure off the local agencies too.
Walking in like we're experts and showing off this fancy technology doesn't have the effect everyone thinks that "we're perfect" for backup comms, to some, its an insult to them that what they have, though it may NOT be the best solution, its what they went with and by putting it down, you're likely insulting them.
I don't think we need to sell ourselves at all. We need to let the appropriate people know we're available, and if they need us, WORK WITH them, not walk in and act like we're communications experts, and its likely a good result will happen.
But if they don't need us, don't push it, back off, ask on occasion, and thats it. Harassing them will just make us look worse.
And selling ourselves as more (and trying to be more than we are) doesn't work either. Elaboration, though it works good when selling a car, doesn't work here. Simply lay the capabilities we have on the table, and go with that. Trying to make us sound more important and more vital often backfires.
If there is no agency that needs you or wants us, then prepare yourself for the good of your family, and if that isn't enough, have enough supplies for neighbors as well. I had a few extra "hanging" LED lights that were rechargable that I loaned to my 2 immediate neighbors during our last extended power outage. Being elderly, it helped them immensely, and they really appreciated it.
You don't have to help out the world in a disaster to help out. Government agency doesn't want help? Fine, prepare yourself and help your neighbors be prepared too. The radios and emergency power will be there at the ready if the government suddenly needs us. If not, they work sometimes just to comfort those around you.
You don't have to help some large agency to be of help when an emergency arises. Stop with the selling of ham radio as the be all, end all and use the knowledge you have to help those around you if something happens as well. That will probably get us more attention than sitting in a room somewhere relaying messages, or worse, being reassigned to something else because thats not needed.
I think we'd all be better served by making sure WE are all prepared for when something happens. Especially those who may have to leave to help others. Make sure your family is ready first.
But selling ourselves? I think we go way overboard on the whole thing.
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by KG4RRN on February 21, 2008
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I would like to add this:
Q: Are you better prepared today (ARES and RACES) than you were on September 11th, 2001.
A: Yes we certinly are, but because we are facing ever-increasing testing and certification requirements,
many in our fold, leave, knowing that the government has turned against us volunteers by requiring us to be
A: Compliant with their way of thinking....
B: Pass stupid ICS tests which have nothing to do with Communication requirements, or emergency comms....
C: Meet and have discussions about aspects of our little roles, in a EOC which costs more than most of our homes, but if stuck there during a real emergency, you won't be able to leave...
D: Increasing ID requirements to access our: credit rating,personality, mental health, trustworthyness, reputation,criminal background check, etc...
If I really wanted all of that, I would have gotten a government Job....
I am with the respondents who said look after your family first, have a level head and decide if your assistance is worth the A)risk to yourself B)your time away from family C)assistance might not be not needed...
Bob Rice, KG4RRN
McLean, VA.
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by NY7Q on February 21, 2008
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And all these 50 plus years I have always believed ham radio was defined as, and is, electronic experimenting, building rigs of all sorts, talking with others about electronics/building, and using our base line communications: CW
To me, that makes this thread senseless because all of the above defines a "hobby"
I think the tornado chasers, WX reporters, and emergency maritime nets are commendable, and should be part of Amateur radio. All the rest is just digital nerds trying to take over and change a great hobby into something it was never intended to be.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by K1LL on February 21, 2008
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AA1IK
"Good article Frank,
Sounds like you have your work cut out for you in Ma.
I am not surprized however. As a former Massachusetts resident,(I escaped, pre Duke), I think you are fighting and uphill battle.
No matter which state you look at, the "Orange Vest" draws a peculiar kind of person, they have a "Big Fish In A Small Pond" (BFIASP) attitude. This is exacerbated by "Orange Vest-wannabees" who try to sound like the Orange Vest people.
This is why I have never again, taken part in emergency communication activities.
A Big Bellyed Boss Man gets his jollies from brow beating volunteers who just want to help. It's a real turn off and many will not return to help after their first venture.
The Orange Vest'ers use "Radio-Speak" to make themselves sound important.
They say things that litter the airwaves with useless chaff, like this:
"Be advised that",
followed by
"And also be advised that"
On and on it goes, using radio jargon adds nothing to the message. It takes longer to say what needs to be said this way, but it makes the Orange Vests feel important.
Voice communication has its place for in close tactical work. ECM work should include data transmission on HF using PSK. No one wants to do this because most of the volunteers are technician class who use 2 meters primarily.
Say what you will, 2 meters is just glorified CB, especially on repeaters. Which brings up another point.
Using repeaters for ECM work is OK if the damage is light, but for big disasters, they are useless with out power.
The whole purpose of ham radio ops in ECM work is that they can be deployed in locations that have no power.
It will take dedicated people to clean up both sides of the street. Good luck!
Ernie Gregoire
de AA1IK"
-----------------------
YOU ARE 100000000% CORRECT and should get the poster of the Month award. LOL
But anyone fool that thinks using VOICE over UHF/VHF is EMCOMM is an idiot. Data needs to be pushed from pne place to another - NOT Voice.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by K8MHZ on February 21, 2008
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"B: Pass stupid ICS tests which have nothing to do with Communication requirements, or emergency comms...."
I agree. Especially when ICS (NIMS) doesn't work. We found that out at an air show one year. The weak link in ICS / NIMS is the 'span of control' requirement. Also, the entire structure made impeded communications to the point of nearly crippling the effort. Besides, why does a ham operator need to know what cop is the supervisor of what cop? My personal belief is that even the best equipped hams are not considered more than a 'dog and pony' show. Our area has some of the best equipment in the nation but seriously lacks training in radio operation and communication. We are written into the jurisdictional emergency plan but I really doubt that we would ever be used. Or 'they' as is the proper term as I, after over a decade of participation, have become very disillusioned with the group and have decided not to take part in their organized effort. I let my RACES card expire and refused to go through the Red Cross background check. I have, however, made it clear that if they *really* needed what I have to offer I would not turn them down but I am going through no more ICS / NIMS training. We are communicators, not cops, not firemen and not EMT's. If I wanted to be one, I would have done so. My personal feeling is that any group that would actually be called upon should be thoroughly trained in radio operation, communication and accuracy along with the ability to set up in short notice a field station and have and test such equipment regularly.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by KA1OS on February 21, 2008
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'And all these 50 plus years I have always believed ham radio was defined as, and is, electronic experimenting, building rigs of all sorts, talking with others about electronics/building, and using our base line communications: CW
To me, that makes this thread senseless because all of the above defines a "hobby"'
ARES: developed since 1935
NTS: begun 1949
RACES: founded 1952
Current year: 2008
Clearly, emergency communication support has been one of the hobby's many facets for quite some time.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by KF9BD on February 21, 2008
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Very interesting comments. Communications is the most consistently identified facet of emergency response requiring some level of corrective action. I have had the pleasure of serving on various emergency response teams (federal and local) and have been involved in exercise planning and evaluation at both levels as well. Over many years of EP involvement I have never see an exercise planned and played where all forms of commerical communications failed and amateur radio was used as the sole communications source. Certainly, there would be some amount of police and perhaps fire department communications capability via simplex. But, I don't believe these organization general have portable repeaters available, at least not in a quantity to serve a very large area. (Please correct me if I am wrong on this). Anyway, back to the exercise relying soley on amateur radio for communications, would it work? I know of field day, but that set of circumstances doesn't really mimmic the communications needs during an emergency. Think of the shear number of locations where radio communciations would be needed. Perhaps amateur radio resources would be more readily appreciated and welcomed if the local Emergency Planners could be convinced to conduct a major exercise involving a significant commerical communications failure forcing reliance on the local amateur radio services. This assumes the amateur radio services/operators are as prepared and as good as they seem to believe they are. Just some thoughts......Danny (enough real EP expereince to know EP isn't simple....)
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by JB_CRATCHET on February 21, 2008
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Frank,
I only have to say one thing. Well said.
God forbid another September 11 happens, because that kind of situation is the examples of the worst kind, but the example of how QST will have at the very least, a stablizing, calming nature to response.
You are 100% right, sir.
73 x 73,
KB3QGV
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by WG8Z on February 21, 2008
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§97.1 Basis and purpose.
The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:
(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.
(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.
(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases of the art.
(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.
(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Just wonder if a you took a poll of todays HAMS how
many follow this precept? How many are even aware of
it? Sure it's a hobby but the main reason we
have this valuble Bandwidth for a playground is the
above >97.1< The problem is not recognition of our
talents/skills it's overall appearance of the HAM
community at large. SKYWARN is quite active in many
areas of the US and some PS agencys monitor these frequencys..Some of the routine traffic (non wx event)I think just may have a part to play in the attitudes the served agency's may have torward Amateur Radio and our credibility as a whole. Just maybe.
Since the elimination of any sort of real test(I'm not talking the code issue) for licensing the Gene pool of Ham radio seems to have
been diluted a Tad bit.
How many Pumpkins (orange vest) are out there
who can't properly solder a PL-259 let alone
identify the sex of a N-connector.
Or set a tone in a radio.
Or build a 75M dipole in the field.
How come it seems like the guy's with the
most ICS wallpaper have the mud-duck signals.
Bring Radio back into Amateur Radio.
Have you done ur Elmer-ing today?
73
Greg
WG8Z
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by KC5CQD on February 21, 2008
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"It must be strange to the old timer hams back before ww2 and during ww2 as things were handled perfectly and worked in precision.
We used the ten meter band for our races, etc., and everything went along well with fire, police and the local government, even allowing we hams two gallons of gasoline for our daily/weekly services.
Guess times have changed, I have noticed, but now know that in this day and age it is sort of troublesome to get together as a group and making sense of what is to be done, more so as to how it is done.
I still say there is no such thing as security and the best protection will be at your own hands and the protection of each and every family.
In an extreme emergency, I will be available and am ready, brain, body and soul and every man for himself will be considered.
Ham radio is fun even in a crisis of danger. Not so much fun on the day of Pearl Harbor and no one was prepared and ready.
W6TH"
Vito? What the hell are you doing here??
Didn't I see a post/arguement from you about a month or two ago wherein you stated that you were "done with eham and would never return!"? And yet.....here you are. hahahahaha!!!!!!!!
You're as full of shit as a Christmas goose.
You gotta' have a little respect for someone with so little pride.
Carry on, you old codger.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by N1EY on February 21, 2008
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As a person involved in EmComm for the past several years in Massachusetts I have to say that hams are not needed.
1) NG has a substantial communications squadron ready to roll replacement infrastructure with plenty of towers
2) SP has a back up repeaters
3) MEMA has backup repeaters; local communities are being provided with dedicated fixed stations and 800mhz handhelds.
In the event of a communications failure there will be no loss of government communication from point to point nor agency to agency.
Local telecom might be disrupted.
ARES sat around had another drill when Danvers had a fire awhile back. They just passed it around over and over again for a net. They published a press release about their work.
Frankly, I don't know what ARES does for anyone in Massachusetts. RACES operations are only a sideshow to the local EMA as the OP has just explained to everyone.
AFAIC there is no need for hams to provide ACTUAL infrastructure. There is some room for hams to explain to the locals on how to operate the radios and set up antennae.
Bill
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by N1EY on February 21, 2008
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What did NTS have with EmComm? It actually used to pass messages between people on a daily basis. It also helped a lot of OM build solid code skills. It has been a core of ham radio with a lot more activity and a significantly larger user base than RACES or ARES.
Bill
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by W2IRT on February 21, 2008
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I laugh my ass off whenever I hear the local OrangeVest brigades waddling off to cover this event or that. Ham radio, as an emergency communications device in a modern urban/suburban community setting, has passed its best-before date a long time ago.
What do hams have that many towns don't? Access to VHF repeaters and simplex radios as opposed to trunked systems, and the ability to span town borders and pass messages between places whose radio systems are on different bands (town X's sheriff on VHF Lo, Vollies on High-band, county exec on Trunking and EMS on iDEN). Plus additional sets of eyes and ears.
If county governments get together and buy a few transportable repeaters on pre-existing frequency allocations, add a couple of generators to the mix, and have their radio shops add the frequencies into every first responders' Motorola HT and mobile radio, then much of what we do is no longer needed. The agencies can do all of this themselves. At most, as one poster pointed out earlier, having one or two people who can be called upon to set this up in a real emergency might be helpful.
I can see the need for amateur radio in tornado country where eyes are fewer and further between and tornadoes, by their nature, are very localized, highly-destructive storms that occur somewhat frequently. This is one case where it really DOES make a big difference. But in too many other places, OrangeVested shack-on-a-belt types see videos of the Skywarn teams in Oklahoma and pretend it's the same situation in their bedroom community outside a major east-coast city that gets an annual blizzard and maybe a two-day power outage every decade after an ice-storm.
It's time we take stock of what amateur radio really IS today, and not what it was in the post-WW2, in the Cold War era or even 10 years ago. It's a great hobby, a terrific way to learn about communications and electronic theory, HF propagation, satellite communication, and a host of other good things...but leave the emcom stuff to the professional first responders.
Yes, I keep my HTs on charge and programmed and have a go-bag ready by the door in case the SHTF, but I'm not so crazy to think that I need to take classes, get injected, inspected, detected, infected, neglected and selected in order to say "Mayday mayday mayday - tornado on the ground near Fred's Gas station on Route 23, moving northeast at about 25 MPH."
I'll just stick to contesting, DXing and having fun with my HOBBY on HF and maybe occasionally elmering a few others along the way, thanks kindly. I'm quite fed up to here with the League and others "selling" amateur radio first and foremost as an emergency tool. It's just one of the things we do, not the be-all and end-all of it.
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by W9XAN on February 21, 2008
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Well, I have to come down squarely behind the "be prepared, take care of your own, and do what you can" school on this question. I don't think "marketing ourselves" is really the answer.
We are not a commodity to be "marketed", we are amateur radio operators, gentlemen by act of the FCC. Though we have a vaguely worded mandate in Part 97, we are not government employees, nor are we required to act as if we were. You can only do what you can do.
If your local Emergency Management is not receptive to your offers of service, all you can do is train up and be ready to step up "when all else fails". When (not if) that happens your help will be gladly accepted. Afterwards, they may be more interested in listening to you. Maybe not. This is not about getting praise or public esteem, but serving in time of desperate need.
There is a fine line between preparedness and "orange vest" fanaticism that everyone must navigate for themselves.
I hope that I am doing it successfully.
Several months ago after a local ARES meeting I had a conversation where someone asked " What do we do if the OEM doesn't call us up in a disaster situation ?" ... I replied "Well, I'll walk around to all the neighbors and collect health & welfare messages and put them out on the National Traffic System".
I'll say it again, you can only do what you can do. Practice NTS message handling on HF. Practice net operations on VHF / UHF. Have emergency power. Focus on the basics. Do two or three drills a year. Do a Simulated Emergency Test every year. Check into nets in adjoining counties so others know you and your callsigns. Talk to other EC's at hamfests. All this forms a ham radio infrastructure that will work "when all else fails" regardless of what your Emergency Management authorities think now. Most important, keep believing in what you are doing !
All that being said, I wish you good luck and 73, NG1I.
"If I had a formula for bypassing trouble, I would not pass it round. Trouble creates a capacity to handle it. I don’t embrace trouble; that’s as bad as treating it as an enemy. But I do say meet it as a friend, for you’ll see a lot of it and had better be on speaking terms with it."
— Oliver Wendell Holmes
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by K4RAF on February 21, 2008
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"ARES: developed since 1935, NTS: begun 1949, RACES: founded 1952
Current year: 2008
Clearly, emergency communication support has been one of the hobby's many facets for quite some time."
Clearly, 1950's Traffic formats & highly structured nets with anal net control drones just don't interface with reality either...
Ham radio is stuck somewhere around 1981 with Packet as sole digital "solution" in 2008...
Get over it... Looked around you since Carter was President?
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by WI7B on February 21, 2008
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On K8MHZ' commentary:
"Especially when ICS (NIMS) doesn't work. We found that out at an air show one year. The weak link in ICS / NIMS is the 'span of control' requirement..."
RESPONSE - ICS DOES WORK. It has been responsible for effective emergency response since its inception in the wildfires of Northern California. I have personally seen its correct application in EMCOMM save 100's of lives versus "thoroughly trained in radio operation, communication and accuracy along with the ability to set up in short notice a field station."
"Also, the entire structure made impeded communications to the point of nearly crippling the effort. Besides, why does a ham operator need to know what cop is the supervisor of what cop?"
RESPONSE - DO WE WANT HAMS IN EMCOMM WHO DO NOT KNOW OR DON'T CARE WHO IS ON DUTY DURING THEIR WATCH? The structure does not impede communications, but aids communication to appropriate personnel. If you do not know who is the on-duty brigade chief and his operational function, what are you doing in EMCOMM anyway...setting up field station??? You are a hiderance.
"I am going through no more ICS / NIMS training."
RESPONSE - PROMISES, PROMISES...
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RE: Where Are We Exactly
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by KC5SAS on February 22, 2008
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We have exactily the opposite problem here.
The Local 911/OEP Director wants to build up and use hams in her RACES plan. The problem is the lack of volunteers. The hams are not interested in signing up to participate. After Katrina the OEP and Red Cross opened 3 shelters but were unable to get even one ham radio operator to come out to assist with shekter and EOC comms.
I've spoken to other RACES Officers/ ARES ECs in nearby jurisdictions and have heard similar problems. EOCs begging for RACES members but nobody steping up to participate.
Steve, KC5SAS
ACS/RACES Officer
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by KA1OS on February 22, 2008
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Chris,
Certainly amateur radio emergency support needs to constantly evolve and parts should be substantially revamped (particularly with regard to high-speed digital), but this function does play a relevant role in many served communities. It's not all about control freaks and nets. The local emergency management group has mostly hams as volunteers but it's not exclusively hams and it doesn't only do communication support. They provide eyes and ears (plus some hands) in the field and have worked with the professional emergency personnel so that they are a familiar resource to be tapped when needed.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by N1EY on February 22, 2008
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::If county governments get together and buy a few
::transportable repeaters on pre-existing frequency ::allocations, add a couple of generators to the mix, and
::have their radio shops add the frequencies into every
::first responders' Motorola HT and mobile radio, then
::much of what we do is no longer needed. The agencies
::can do all of this themselves. At most, as one poster
::pointed out earlier, having one or two people who can
::be called upon to set this up in a real emergency might
::be helpful.
The OP failed to mention that the local police/fire maintain their comms systems in MA. They will put the freq of the local communities on their radio systems. We also have some wonderful county-wide systems for mutual aid. They are tested regular with a net, too.
I a former a RACES officer here in MA.
Bill
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by KA1OS on February 22, 2008
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N1EY: "I am former a RACES officer here in MA."
Interesting! Which position and over what period? What made you decide to drop out?
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by K5LXP on February 22, 2008
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Part 97 does *not* say to "serve the public", only to enhance the value of the service by providing emergency communications. I don't believe this implies a requirement to become a pseudo-public safety officer along with it's attendant certifications. It is not reasonable to expect *volunteer* hams to become emergency managers or incident commanders just to relay information via radio, or go through hours of training and drills and commit personal resources such as equipment and fuel, and take days off of work just to serve in some secondary role as a shelter go-fer or sandbag filler.
I for one am growing weary of the Radio Rambo types that think nothing of devoting endless hours to mire themselves within government bureaucracy to sell the idea that an agency should *rely* on a group of self-trained volunteers who may or may not show up, as part of their emergency plan. I already have a career, I don't need a 2nd one as a public safety officer. If that makes me an "unqualified" communicator, so be it. Leave that to the guys that get *paid* to train and respond. If you want to go through all of that so you can sit in a shelter and call in orders for bottled water and toilet paper on a 2M rig, be my guest.
I believe the idea that any amateur/volunteer organization can show up to any disaster or event with a gel cell and a transceiver and provide any useful level of communications for public safety agencies is over. But, we can still fulfill the intent of Part 97 by serving support groups like Red Cross, Salvation Army, Southern Baptists, CERT, Skywarn, etc in their efforts, as well as Public Service communications for parades, marathons, etc. It makes a whole lot more sense to aid these organizations than to think we can step in and pick up where multi-million dollar high bandwidth, high channel density systems may fail.
Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by VK2DMH on February 22, 2008
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To those who consider being prepared (good on you) and staying at home to look after your loved ones, have you considered that when TSHTF the government guys are likely to rock up and commandeer all of your equipment. They may even try and press-gang you into running comms for them under their direct orders.
I would be very surprised if there is not some law on the books already that they can use to force any hams into service in time of need.
73 de David, vk2dmh
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by W4CBL on February 23, 2008
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Let 'em try.....
They pull that kinda stunt at MY shack, they'd best bring a SWAT team.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by KV9U on February 23, 2008
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Here in the U.S., it would be very difficult for government officials to confiscate personal property without a court order for cause, or impress anyone into service. Assuming this is not the end of the world scenario, this would likely lead to long prison sentences to those officials and damage the reputation of emergency response, since they would be violating some of our Bill of Rights to the Constitution. (Other countries could be quite different of course).
This past summer we had a 1,000 year "event" with severe flooding. While it did not cause a communications emergency on our side of the Mississippi River, other areas did not fare as well. What happened was that many of us had so many difficulties with our own families, farms and homes, and were scrambling to help ourselves. Others work in protective services and can never be available for emergency communications. So you might ask, just what value do we have? The answer is that we can ask for help from those outside our immediately affected area. We did, and they came to help out. Mostly they came to help do damage assessment in our area. Other areas had much more immediate communication needs. So it varies greatly depending upon the microclimate you have.
As some have pointed out, the need for amateur radio communications is much reduced from what was once needed due to the enhanced technologies from government and utilities. But we can have a role with public service for those who choose to do this, whether for our main public service to support Skywarn, special events, agencies, or local government.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by N9AOP on February 23, 2008
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In the county I work for (pop 680,000) we welcome the amateurs and the help that they provide.
The problem isn't in the communications system (we have one of the better ones) but in the volume of personnel doing the communicating. Disaster means that all agencies are initially busy saving lives and property and do not have time or personnel for ancillary communications.
Amateur operators (both local and mutual aid) provide the volume to cushion the original crunch and allow a smooth communication transition.
Will this work where you live? It won't happen by itself-you have to make it happen.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by KC8VWM on February 23, 2008
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I always bring up the point that Amateur Radio Operators, who are federally licensed, will assist in a crisis with their own equipment at NO cost to the town.
Each and every time I have been rebuked by these agencies we seek to help because what I feel is the confusion amongst those civilian decision makers that amateur means just that… CB's and hence, their response is always "Hey thanks for your time." and then show us out the door with a "We'll call you, don't call us".
-------------
Basically my take on this subject is in the fact that if public service agencies fail to realize and/or recognize the real value, professionalism and advanced potential behind the communication capabilities, value added services and assistance we can provide for them, then no amount of marketing or anything else for that matter is going to help them understand these facts.
This is not a hard sell. In fact, it's much better if we just let them come to us and ask (beg?) for our assistance when the chips are down as usual.
That's the problem with trying to "fit in" in these types of situations or public service agencies. The instant we are "trying" will most often be met with instant rejection and criticism. I am almost certain this response is a written protocal somewhere.
We have nothing to sell or prove to these people. Our track record speaks many volumes all on it's own.
Take it or leave it.
73 de Charles - KC8VWM
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by AB0WR on February 24, 2008
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It's the same old same old all over again.
I see so many hams who think amateur radio should be a common carrier providing communications infrastructure for government agencies. They whine about government agencies who just plain don't see us as viable common carriers. They whine about other hams who don't share this corrupting viewpoint of amateur radio.
Amateur radio was never meant to be a common carrier, especially for the government. Part 97 speaks to "enhancing the value ... to the public" and not to "enhancing the value ... to the government".
The section on RACES doesn't even speak to handling logistical messages for government agencies, only messages for safety of life, property, the alleviation of human suffering, maintenance of law and order, and to combat armed attack or sabotage. In other words, mostly tactical communications.
We, as a service, need to refocus on our service to the *public*. As someone mentioned early in the thread, many of us become emergency communicators because we are in the affected area. We need to focus on how our communications capability can help our fellow citizens in that affected area with us and not on how we can become a common carrier for government agencies.
tim ab0wr
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by AD7KC on February 24, 2008
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KV9U
"Here in the U.S., it would be very difficult for government officials to confiscate personal property without a court order for cause, or impress anyone into service....."
Not really......
RCW 38.52.110
Use of existing services and facilities — Impressment of citizenry.
[ … ]
(2) The governor, the chief executive of counties, cities and towns and the emergency management directors of local political subdivisions appointed in accordance with this chapter, in the event of a disaster, after proclamation by the governor of the existence of such disaster, shall have the power to command the service and equipment of as many citizens as considered necessary in the light of the disaster proclaimed: PROVIDED, That citizens so commandeered shall be entitled during the period of such service to all privileges, benefits and immunities as are provided by this chapter and federal and state emergency management regulations for registered emergency workers.
--------------------------------------------
Check you states laws. You may find something like this.
73
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by G6XCJ on February 24, 2008
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Hiya, its a sad fact that many cannot see beyond the term *amateur*! Suggest you read *Tommy* by Rudyard KIPLING. It spells it all out. Like you i give to ARES/IRESC and to any person who needs help in an emergency- without charge!
So many hams have put themselves out to save us lives and we feel it really is essential we try and give a bit back whether on the ham bands or CB it makes no difference when a life is in danger. Is that reasonable?
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by W2TXB on February 25, 2008
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Frank (in Worcester, MA),
Great topic, and some very good points as well! Worcester does not differ greatly from most other areas. The term "Amateur" by itself should not (and probably is not) the problem. Government agencies have tons of equipment that can be used in an emergency, but much of it may be less useful in the event of a real emergency. The longer the situation lasts, the worse the situation may become, and the greater potential for needing hams to cover the communications necessary to complete the mission.
Government officials need to be invited to see and hear what the hams do, but that should be after the hams get their protocols and methods in order. If the officials accept our invitation to observe a Simulated Emergency Test, and we communicate inefficiently, they will go away and never speak to us again. I have heard traffic nets where everything but the phonetics were spelled with phonetics - not acceptable in a real emergency. Even the NIMS guidelines recommend plain (and brief) English.
There is a place for data communications as well; we need to show what we can do in a way that they will remember it.
In my home area, a number of hospitals received a "grant deliverable" which included a Yaesu 2-M transceiver with coax and antenna for each hospital that applied. My hospital applied for and received the setup, which we plan to have operational fairly soon. The local Amateur Radio club has indicated interest in providing operators, and there are a few of us employed by the hospital who are licensed hams (with more to come). We have other ways to communicate between hospitals, but they include broadband Internet, telephone, and satellite phone. All three are vulnerable during certain emergencies, and the sat phone is an expensive and ineffective device.
The road to getting a station on the air has been a long one, but progress is being made. The hams will be involved in the process throughout the county, being able to provide reliable communications to other areas. One of the greatest assets of such a setup is that it will take the load off the rest of the system.
We need to present all the benefits in a professional manner; by so doing, we will gain the trust and confidence of those we may need to serve during an emergency.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by K4KLB on February 27, 2008
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I'll show up when the gov't first does something other than raise my taxes and provide less than adequate services. They then have the nerve to cry "poor them" when the crap hits the fan that they cannot do their jobs. Oh no, we need to raise taxes again so we can better prepare the city and purchase equipment. And so the cycle of gov't BS and false sense of security continues.
I have a problem with the idea that we must serve the gov't to serve the community. Why must we depend on the gov't wanting our help to help people in case of need? Maybe if the idea of EMCOM didn't involve serving the same gov't that doesn't serve us, I might support it.
I know that some folks who were in the military remember talking to relatives via phone patches provided by hams, or MARS messages being delivered to them. These service members and their families had a lot of respect for hams and what they did for THEM. This was because the PEOPLE were directly helped.
Possibly the poor and misinterpreted public image of ham radio is due to involvement with the government. Hams can and do help in hard times, but there is very little public exposure. Sure, the story ends up on ARRL.org or in QST because a ham submitted a story..... and only hams will read it! This does nothing for ham radio's public image. What official wants to admit that someone provided better services than the gov't can provide? Not to mention for free! Get back to the basics of helping people in need, not the government's needs and things will be much better.
73
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by AD7KC on February 27, 2008
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I think there is a bigger picture that gets over looked. Like it or not, the management chain has a short attention span and a limited comprehension of anything technical.
This applies to anything. I have noticed that overall interest in Emergency Preparations gets a limited appreciation. Not just the Ham Radio option. Today's managers aren't paid to think. They can hire somebody (consultants) to do that for them. So when presented with subject matter that requires a deep thought process, they usually vapor lock.
I’ve seen many meetings, on this subject, cut short. NIMS training?...they stay long enough to be ‘noticed’, then leave. Have something else to do. But get ‘credit’ for the training anyway. There is just an over all lack of, serious, interest here.
Responsibility isn't something they are ready to accept. It's called 'Crisis Management'. You wait until it becomes a Crisis, then Manage to get out of it by blaming everyone around you (above and below).
If you can get beyond that. .. the next hurtle (this is a big one) is the threat. Amateur Radio is a threat to their power structure. Mangers (specially upper) don't like the idea they have to adhere to a protocol/procedure they cannot control. They think they should be able to just pick up the mic and talk, anyway they wish. To whom ever they wish. The whole licensing thing is insulting to them.
I do know of some serious progress happening, in Texas. But he has approached hospitals, directly, and made the case. This is moving really well, for the most part. I don’t think it is, only, Ham Radio. I don’t believe the subject, as a whole, gets their attention. That is until a TV camera and microphone is stuffed in their face.
Besides, is not as if there is any real plan anyway. Once you’ve set up your EmComms system, what do you do with it? Are there mass stock piles of supplies waiting for deployment? Are there predetermined distribution points, that people can be directed to? What – real – preparations are there?
Or are you just going to facilitate a lot of mindless email to and from people who are just trying to cover their butts, because they have nothing. I remember the first time I brought up the National Stock Pile. This was ‘passed around’ until it just faded away (disappeared). Never heard about it again.
In the case of Amateur Radio – you may just be casting pearls before swine. Maybe striking out on your own would be the better way to go.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by W1XZ on February 28, 2008
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>>I have a problem with the idea that we must serve the gov't to serve the community.<<
While I think we have differing reasons, our ends seem to be the same. Somewhere along the line Emcomm started meaning organizations with acronyms, orange vests, endless meetings, and unfathomable structures and stopped being about amateurs helping out neighbors/communities.
If everyone spent as much time learning radio operations as they did being part of some imaginary world saving group this whole post wouldn't have been made in the first place.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by K4KLB on February 28, 2008
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>>If everyone spent as much time learning radio operations as they did being part of some imaginary world saving group this whole post wouldn't have been made in the first place. <<
DITTO! You pretty much summed up my whole post right there.
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by K1DA on February 29, 2008
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Since we can't control the idiot level of those
who come and go in government--having a ham as the local building inspector- GREAT!! but no one stays for ever, I say take advantage of good relations with them when you can, give a good, low key, demonstration of coverage area (drag out all the old Motorola stuff you can find and leave the triband/crossband handheld repeater in the car --the Moto they will understand) and if they don't bite, try to keep a WELL CHOSEN group together, formal or not, just in case. As many have pointed out, the average family man is not going to leave his wife and kids during a severe storm (when the roof might blow off his house) to work at the local shelter coordinating donut delivery but his licensed son might well be available. The hams in one local community
earned earned lasting respect for simply retuning and installing a vhf antenna to get the police department
back on the air after their base station antenna failed
in a windstorm. It's not "a guy with an orange vest and a triband handheld at every intersection" reputation but "those radio guys who are always willing to help out (and know their stuff)" As I said-- a well chosen group. Those "public servants" who are counting their "hours to retirement" are not inclined to welcome free help unless and until their whatever is on the line and it is clear you can help shield it. Yes they will go through the political motions but ---don't call US, eh. Annoy them by being too agressive and right into the "CB NUTJOBS we don't need" file you go. And it is REAL EASY to put us there. People who LIKE to talk on radios and DON'T get time annahalf????
Another case... Tightwad little town--local chief thinks emergency prep is an adaptor to plug an HT into the base station antenna if the power goes out -- it does -- can't even find the adaptor-- two hams show up with a generator to get them back on the air. From then on the chief always consulted with the "locals"
about his communications needs- the first of which was a generator, BTW. I like to think those guys saved the town some money . Now, of course, the Feds are funding
geewizz woopy 800 mhz digital for everybody-- this department being smart enough not to give up their old analog channel though.
I recall looking at a copy of an old 1960's ARES plan for this area which assigned every ham involved a quasi military rank (for crying out loud). Trouble is they
ran out of hams before they got to vice admiral of the fleet. They wanted bleeping uniforms!!! Folks we won't get to far with that today.
So use judgement, in some places-- far from the big cities of New England where folks have a do it your self mentality, where the local taxpayer is someone you know, not the enemy you pry money from -you can fit in like the farmer who offers his bulldozer in a blizzard-
(unlike the big city where Mr. Shop Steward is P...ed
because someone isn't getting timeannahalf to run it)
the closer to the beltway- as it were- the harder it is to break into the "WE know best" mentality.
Sometimes leading the horse to water is the best you can do and that isn't easy either.
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Where Are We Exactly?
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by N1BHH on March 2, 2008
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The Worcester situation is an ideal that many amateur radio organizations should follow. By the way the link is incorrect it should be: http://www.wect.org/
There are many other locations where amateur radio has been highlighted. In Virginia the ARES has set up antennas and some radio equipment at hospitals in the central part of the state. Their website has lots of good reference material to read: http://www.varaces.org/
There are many more amateur radio organizations which have set up good working plans with local officials and conduct drills on a regular basis. North Carolina ARES: http://www.ncarrl.org/ares/
San Mateo County, California: http://k6mpn.org/
Benton County, Oregon: http://www.bcares.org/
These are just a few of the many groups who have brought amateur radio to the public and have shown it as a vital part of the emergency communications and public service community.
It would be nice to see amateurs in a good light when natural and man made disaster strikes. It's often not the case, but we as amateurs should always strive to show ourselves as confident and self assured when we are called upon. Preparedness is the key to assisting various public agencies when summoned in time of need.
Let's all try to show amateur radio as best we can, it starts with you and me and how we present ourselves to the public. A positive attitude goes a long way.
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RE: Where Are We Exactly?
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by N5ZAP on March 10, 2008
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-> ... I replied "Well, I'll walk around to all the neighbors and collect health & welfare messages and put them out on the National Traffic System". <-
I became a ham because of Hurricane Katrina. When I was in my house, alone except for one other family in the neighborhood, in complete darkness, with no communication with my family for two days, not knowing if my parents were alive or dead, I would have greatly appreciated someone who could put a message in a bottle for me.
I for one would be glad if the League was as worried about these "health and welfare" messages as it was so-called emergency messages. H&W traffic is an emergency to the folks most affected by the disaster.
And BTW, thanks for everyone who helped us. We are still, almost three years later, grateful.
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