European Reciprocal Licenses Now Limited to Advanced, Extra Class Licensees
from
The ARRL Letter, Vol 27, No 05
on
February 8, 2008
Website:
http://www.arrl.org/
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European Reciprocal Licenses Now Limited to Advanced and Extra Class Licensees:
The European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications Administrations (CEPT) has revised its table of equivalence between FCC amateur licenses and the CEPT license. Effective February 4, 2008, Recommendation T/R 61-01 (as amended) now grants full CEPT privileges only to those US citizens who hold an FCC-issued Amateur Extra or Advanced class license. This means that those US licensees who hold an FCC-issued General or Technician license are no longer eligible for full operating privileges in countries where CEPT-reciprocal operation had previously been permitted. US Novice class licensees have had no reciprocal operating privileges under the CEPT provisions. These changes are the result of a re-evaluation of US and CEPT license classes equivalence by the CEPT's Radio Regulatory Working Group at its meeting January 29-February 1, 2008 in Basel, Switzerland. The Working Group deals with numerous areas of concern including Amateur Radio, and is responsible for applications from countries to participate in T/R 61-01, as well as other Amateur Radio related issues. "Changes in the US license structures and examinations often have ancillary implications beyond the immediate impact upon the US licensees," said Dan Henderson, N1ND, ARRL Regulatory Information Manager. "While this CEPT change affects several classes of US licensees when they visit Europe and other CEPT signatory countries, it has no effect on their operating privileges at home."
Source:
The ARRL Letter
Vol. 27, No. 5
February 8, 2008
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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Thank You ARRL
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by K4RAF on February 8, 2008
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There should be some special recognition of anyone who was licensed the old way, before the FCC, including passing 13WPM.
I have been a ham for 25 years & never EVER thought the day would come that I become a 2nd class license holder. I earned my General class license the old fashioned way, elmered by a General as Novice, then Tech, then General class... Every test was before the FCC examiners in Oxford Valley PA. I dare to say my General written was harder than the current or past Extra class under VEC.
Thank you ARRL. You & ONLY you are responsible for dumbing down the tests to the point that we are no longer on par with other countries. In your endless quest for $$$ & numbers, lets see how you respond to this sad & rather embarrassing development. If you don't, look out... I for one will never forget the "favor" done in my name...
K4RAF
wifidx@gmail.com
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by N2UGB on February 9, 2008
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This hurts. I've lived in France several months a year for the past half-dozen years. Always travelled with my portable outfit and a copy of the CEPT agreement. As a 25+ year Genneral it looks like I am not good enough for the European Union.
I don't understand why a General Class operator would not be granted at least the limited privledges of one of the "entry" level class European license holders. Such as the British 10-watter class.
Too old and tired to think about upgrading now. Looks like I will be bringing the little FT-817 over just to read the mail and keep my cw copying speed up to par.
If that is now the law, I do not intend to break it with illegal operating.I have too much respect for amateur radio for that sort of conduct.
Adieu la France
ex F/N2UGB
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by N2UGB on February 9, 2008
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By the way, a lot of Europeans are P.O. with some of the EU commission's decisions that affect their everyday lives.
F/N2UGB Never-More
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by DD3EO on February 10, 2008
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@K4RAF: Sad but true. On the other paw, I don't understand, why the USA needs that many licence-classes, that they have now. Here in Germany, we have exactly 2 classes, A and E. E can be translated to Entry, A is Advanced. Only class A is a reciprocal accepted licence-class, but then, many european countries accept our entry-class as well. And that's, where we come to N2UGBs problem: I suggest, that you contact the french amateur radio association or the relevant governmental office well before travelling to France. Plus, when the dust has settled a bit, the ARRL might have the necessary information as well. Taking the affected classes out of the reciprocal agreement might simply mean, that you have to apply for a guest licence. Just as it was 20 years ago.
Regards
DD3EO.
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by N2UGB on February 10, 2008
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Thanks for the info OM. I had completely forgotten the "old" days. Years ago I went to the French PTT office and was given a temporary license for my stay. Wasn't that difficult and was charged a few Francs. I will bring my FT817 with me, minus key and mic. Still no law against being an SWL is there?
As you said, will keep up-to-date and see what transpires.
73
N2UGB
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by N5PVL on February 10, 2008
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You could always upgrade, too.
Personally, I am excited to see the bar being raised for a change. - I'd like to see more of this kind of action.
73 DE Charles, N5PVL
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by N2UGB on February 10, 2008
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Charles I will be 69 years old shortly, health not great and vision worse. Just not up to the upgrade option. I must say that 25 plus years ago when I took my General written and code exam, I really felt a sense of accomplishment.
I have other interests and realize that amateur radio is not be-all and end-all of my life.
Have a great day
73
Dick
N2UGB
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by N2KFC on February 10, 2008
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"European Reciprocal Licenses Now Limited to Advanced and Extra Class Licensees:"-it is not the true!CEPT licenses are limited,not reciprocal!!!
You can still get reciprocal License if Country you travel to,has Reciprocal agreement with USA!
I travel a lot and I do not have any problems operating from diffrent Countries...just check do we have Reciprocal Agreement with particular Country!
73!
John,
N2KFC,SP2GGZ,YB1AQV,
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by N2KFC on February 10, 2008
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DD3EO Wrote:" On the other paw, I don't understand, why the USA needs that many licence-classes, that they have now. Here in Germany, we have exactly 2 classes, A and E. E can be translated to Entry, A is Advanced."
You are so right,USA License system is total nonsense!
73!
N2KFC,SP2GGZ,YB1AQV,
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by N2KFC on February 10, 2008
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DD3EO Wrote:" On the other paw, I don't understand, why the USA needs that many licence-classes, that they have now. Here in Germany, we have exactly 2 classes, A and E. E can be translated to Entry, A is Advanced."
You are so right,USA License system is total nonsense!
73!
N2KFC,SP2GGZ,YB1AQV,
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by DD3EO on February 11, 2008
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> "European Reciprocal Licenses Now Limited to Advanced
> and Extra Class Licensees:"-it is not the true!CEPT
> licenses are limited,not reciprocal!!!
> You can still get reciprocal License if Country you
> travel to,has Reciprocal agreement with USA!
If a licence class is entered in this equivalence table (T/R 61-01), then that licence is automatically valid in all CEPT member countries. However, that does not stop any country from accepting additional licence classes as equivalent to their own.
> I travel a lot and I do not have any problems operating
> from diffrent Countries...just check do we have
> Reciprocal Agreement with particular Country!
Exactly what I recommend in this case. And even if there is no reciprocal agreement, a guest licence is available in most cases.
Regards
DD3EO
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by K4RAF on February 11, 2008
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N5PVL,
I got news for you friend, I hold both an old world General (13WPM/FCC exam) & a General Radiotelephone (before they were no "endorsements") from around 1982. I have held both for 25 years, work as a wireless engineer & learn something everyday.
The current license "upgrade" structure is a !#$%^! joke because the ARRL has made it worthless in the realm of knowledge or experimentation. It only serves their purpose to jumble classes enough to "keep it going" with manual sales.
Once CW was downgraded, Generals of 13WPM vintage lost once. Now CW has been eliminated & General again were passed over as if we were 3rd rate parcels.
This insults those of us who strive to stay active, current & fruitful members of the amateur "fraternity" without bowing to Newington's whims. Your suggestion we simply "upgrade" is a farce when I compare tests of old, to new "Extra". Too many rules, not enough electronics, let alone relevant "radio" in its present day forms.
K4RAF
wifidx@gmail.com
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by K4RAF on February 11, 2008
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DD3EO,
I appreciate your view from there. I agree 1000% with your view. My theory:
Once CW was removed, it also removed the necessity for license "classes". The US license should be 1 single license class, across the board.
I would also suggest that if we in the US are actually serious about getting youth "involved", we actually have a "family" license, where families of a single licensed ham, could utilize amateur radio. This could actually become an alternative to GMRS licenses, which are family oriented already.
Is it any wonder why FRS/GMRS are 60 million strong & almost NONE are licensed? Or should I say "regi$tered"???
73 de K4RAF
wifidx@gmail.com
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by W5ESE on February 11, 2008
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> Personally, I am excited to see the bar being
> raised for a change. - I'd like to see more of
> this kind of action.
Unfortunately, I think this is a reflection of
the fact that the us general class license "isn't
what it used to be". The bar for the us general
class ticket was lowered, so it now lacks the
level of equivalence to the CEPT license that
it once did.
This is a tragic development for amateurs (like
N2UGB or K4RAF), who earned their general stripes
in the era before published question pools, reduced
technical content, and deleted morse elements.
Scott
W5ESE
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by G3SEA on February 11, 2008
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I can understand the above sentiments.
I can operate in the U.S. because the U.K. 'G' Licence has priveleges equivalent to the U.S. Extra Licence.
In fact I recently obtained an ARRL Extra Class Q&A Manual to peruse and it's no problem for me to pass that should I wish to obtain a KH6 Extra licence.
In reading through it the standard does seem lower than say 10/15 years ago but this so called 'dumbing down' is happening throughout Society.
KH6/G3SEA
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by W9WHE-II on February 11, 2008
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THIS SHOULD COME AS NO SURPRISE
This is the logical result of "dumbing down" the standards here in the USA.
And you know who you have to thank.....arrl; for pushing the "dumbing down" ajenda.
W9WHE
Proud to have CANCELLED my arrl membership
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by WA7NCL on February 12, 2008
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Plenty of time for bitching. No time for upgrading.
It's pretty hard to upgrade, you know. You gotta to go to a ham fest or local club and take a "dumbed down" test. An, you gotta read the answers in the study guide just before the test.
If you pass you get an instant upgrade.
Wow, sure wished it was like the old days when you went to the FCC office and sweated it out. Paid the Feds, then waited 3 or 4 months for them to process it and send it by snail mail.
The exams happened a few times a month too! If you failed the code, you got to start all over again! Oh, and if you were starting out, you needed to have two years experience to even take the extra class.
By gum, those were great days right guys!
Geeeeeeeeeeeeez
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RE: Thank You ARRL
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by K4RAF on February 13, 2008
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WA7NCL,
You just can't pick up what is being put down.
13WPM Generals have been screwed repeatedly, while everyone else benefits.
My license exams in 1982 were 5 times more difficult than the current "upgrade", which now revolves around rules, not technical prowess.
I fail to see the "upgrade" involved in the Extra charade at this point. At one time, being an Extra meant something. Now it means the license structure is too complicated...
Thank you ARRL slacker$
K4RAF
Licensed since 1982 - When there was no VEC, just the FCC
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European Reciprocal Licenses Now Limited to Advanc
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by W8KQE on February 16, 2008
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WTF???!!! Are you kidding???!!!!!
This is utterly RIDICULOUS and HYPOCRITICAL, as many '13 wpm Generals' (like myself, licensed in 1977) have indicated here. I too, have many 'hobbies' and past-times, but I have honed my CW and other operating skills over the years, and probably send/receive better CW than most 'Extra lites' of today. I've even operated successfully in Greece many times in the past, with no problems at all. We should all contact this organization and let them know they made a huge mistake and error of judgement with this stupid exclusionary move!
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News from abroad
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by DD3EO on February 17, 2008
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As the DARC-Clubmagazine cq-DL reports, the Bundesnetzagentur (german telecommunications authority) have changed their equivalence ratings for the US-licences. Extra and Advanced are equivalent to Class A, the General class is equivalent to Class E (Novice class). The new CEPT-Classification ist identical, General class is equivalent to the harmonized Novice class. Technician and lower have no equivalent in Europe. My advice for those often travelling abroad: Upgrade to Advanced or Extra, as Novice licensed Hams (General class) have no shortwave access in some countries.
In other news:
Australia is using the CEPT-Recommendations from now on as well. Plus a bunch of separate accepance rules. Everything about that is here: http://tinyurl.com/3453xc (pdf-File) and here: http://tinyurl.com/38enbw
(You have to read both to know, what is allowed. Oh, and US-licences from Extra down to Technician have full privileges down under.)
Best regards
DD3EO
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European Reciprocal Licenses Now Limited to Advanc
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by K7KHA on February 22, 2008
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I don't see mention of CW in the original article. But the Europeans kicked it to the curb first.
Being a no-code Extra and a VE (I'm sure I'll have to parry some barbs here,) but upgrading has actually sparked an interest in learning it, albeit not in the order of the "old days." I want that extra sliver of the band and be able to understand what people are saying.
Sorry to say, (the obvious) some don't care about the code or the old days. Fewer people in the CW portion of the band means a little more elbow room for those of us eager to learn it.
I'm wondering, aloud, how many posters actually plan a trip to Europe and what the overall impact would be with this change? This surely will evoke some emotion.
As for the complicated license structure, (nothing like a good pot shot from the Europeans to stir the pot..kettle...black..) the number of classes has narrowed, unfortunately so has the number of licensees.
Attrition, death, apathy and reluctance to share interests and sometimes bandwidth does Amateur Radio, no good.
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