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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

How High Is That Antenna?

Ted Forrest (KB5CQF) on March 22, 2008
View comments about this article!

So, how high IS that antenna?

Recently I found myself once again shooting arrows over a tree for my XYL, (Dee, K5XYL), in order to hang another antenna for her amongst the tall Southern Pines surrounding our home. Honestly, I think she keeps me around JUST because I can string copper around to support her CW habit. I had decided to hang another "Carolina Windom" up for her and had found two perfectly spaced trees to act as the end supports for a flat-top configuration. After the requisite tangles, snapped string, disappearing arrows, etc..,. I had her antenna up and working. She then asked me "How high is it?" Now, I knew that was a loaded question, since if it was lower than the previous "Carolina Windom" I had put up for her, I would get the "I should have married someone with a two-hundred foot tower and 40 meter Yagi" look. I guesstimated about 70 feet and that got me off the hook, since the prior installation was at about 60 feet (also guesstimated, but don't tell her that!) Quickly changing the subject, I distracted her with a question about band conditions and made a mental note to myself (well, it was a mental note, who else would it be for???), to get an accurate height measurement.

Somewhere in the back of my mind, a hazy memory from trigonometry back in high school lurked and resurfaced during my time of need….something about an inclinometer. A few more seldom accessed neural pathways fired and then I remembered. I have seen several methods for determining the height of an object. This one is probably no better, worse or accurate than most, and if you are an engineer, have done survey work, work for a forestry agency or grew up participating in model rocketry, you will probably laugh at how simple and obvious this is, but for everyone else, it will at least allow usage of some of those math skills that you swore to yourself you would never use again once you finished school! It also involves "Super Glue", a protractor, string and a tape measure so it can help bring out your inner child as well (it is also a cool project to enjoy with a youngster if you happen to have one hanging around. Borrow one if you need to. Making science fun is a great way to help Elmer the next generation of hams.)

What you'll need:

Half circle plastic protractor with a small hole at the origin. (Standard, not decimal or fractional)

One straight soda straw

Super Glue (or tape)

One foot of thin twine or string.

A small weight (1/4 ounce fishing sinker or 1/4 inch nut or similar)

Tape measure (any length will do, but a 25 footer makes it quicker)

Calculator (The built in Scientific calculator for the Windows XP OS will be fine)

Construction details: (or how to make an inclinometer for the ultra-cheapskate)

Most of these cheap protractors are about six inches long at the base, so cut your straw about seven inches long. Prop your protractor up between two books (the protractor will be perpendicular to your work surface) with the curved surface against (and tangent to... ha more math stuff, snuck that one in..) the work surface. This will leave the straight edge pointed upwards and parallel to your work surface (ummm... DON'T prop it up with anything that you can't afford to lose if you squirt "Super Glue" all over the place by accident! I used some of my wife's 'Chick Lit' books, hi hi!). Run a bead of glue across the thin edge (usually about 1/16 inch) of the flat, upward facing surface. Quickly put your soda straw onto this glue surface, with the straw extending past one end of the protractor about an inch or so. This will make it easier to hold up close to your eye. Once the glue has set and you have unglued your hands from the table or books or some part of your anatomy, and unglued any youngster who has been 'helping' you, you are ready to add the business part of the inclinometer, which is a string with a weight tied onto the end. Take your string and run it through the hole at the origin of the protractor (that's the hole right in the center of the base that will be directly below the 90 degree mark). Tie a big wad of knots in the string on the backside of the protractor to keep the string from pulling through the hole. Pull the string through the front side of the protractor until the knots snug up against the hole. Now tie your weight on the other end. The length of the string hanging down doesn't really matter, as long as it hangs past the edge of the protractor angle markings. Six to ten inches should be fine. That is it. You are done. Go grab an adult beverage for yourself and a soda for any youngster you had helping, assuming you didn't 'accidentally' glue their mouth shut after asking you how much longer this was going to take for the two-hundredth time.

0x01 graphic

So, now that you are the owner of a fine, scientific instrument, how do you use it? You could just leave it lying around and mumble things about 'apogee, gradients, look angle' etc... when someone asks what the heck it is, then nod sagely and walk off. OR you can take it outside and find out if your dipole is really at 100 feet (probably not!).

I promise that the math involved here has never, to my knowledge, killed anyone. If you are worried about that, have your mother-in-law do the math for you (sorry Kathy!).

From the base of the support structure for you antenna (i.e. tree), use your tape measure to measure a spot between 50 and 100 feet away. You can actually use ANY distance, as long as it is known, but 50 -100 feet is usually far enough away for you to use the inclinometer without the weight smacking you in the chin. You also need a spot that is at least roughly level with the base of your tree. If you are significantly higher or lower than the base of your tree, you will have to take that into account. Once you are at your known distance, hold the inclinometer up to your eye, with the straw on top, the protractor perpendicular to the ground you are standing on, and sight through the straw to where your support rope is hung. If your support rope is way, way, way out on a limb, you'll have to estimate a spot on the ground directly underneath where your rope crosses the limb, then measure your 50 to 100 feet from there to get an accurate result. Hopefully you still have one of those youngsters around, and get them to see where the string intersects the degree markings on the protractor. Most protractors will have two sets of numbers on them, so you want the number that is less than 90-degrees. If your protractor is REALLY cheap, I suppose that it might only have one set of degree markings on it. In that case, make sure the end that starts at 0 is the end closest to your eye. Anyway, if your measured angle is 90-degrees or higher, you are doing something wrong or the laws of the natural world have been suspended and you might as well go have another adult beverage. If you have no youngster around, just use your free hand to hold the string at the free hanging angle, then get your measurement. So now you have an angle and a known length. We are going to assume that your support structure (tree) is relatively straight and perpendicular to the ground and that you were sighting on a spot close to the trunk. This means that we have a right triangle, with one leg formed by your distance from the tree, one leg formed by the distance up the tree to your antenna support and all of the angles of the triangle (one angle is 90-degrees, one angle is what you measured (the angle at the top of our triangle), subtract the sum of those from 180-degrees and you know the angle at the bottom! For example, we will assume that I was standing 100 feet from the base of the tree, and I measured a 55-degree angle sighting on where the limb that my antenna support rope is hung is attached to the tree. I now know that one leg of my triangle is 100 feet, the angle at the top of the triangle is 55-degrees, the angle at the base of the triangle is 90-degrees and the remaining angle is 35-degrees (180 - 55 - 90 = 35). We can now use very basic right angle trigonometry to solve for my unknown triangle leg (i.e. the height we are looking for). Here is how:

The cosine of an angle = adjacent side length / hypotenuse length. This is normally shortened to: Cosine equals adjacent over hypotenuse. Here is how to plug in the numbers in our example:

cos 35 degrees = 100 over (or divided by) the unknown length of the hypotenuse which is the distance between where we were standing when we took the measurement and the point we were looking at through the straw. Moving the numbers around, we come up with:

length of the hypotenuse equals 100 divided by the cosine of 35-degrees. On your calculator you would type:

100 / 35 cos =

This would give you about 122 (rounded) for the length of the hypotenuse. Now we know the length of one leg and the length of the hypotenuse of a right triangle. This means we can use the old Pythagorean theorem (C squared = A squared + B squared) to find the height we are looking for. In this case it is: 122 squared = 100 squared + B squared. Solving for B squared (unknown height squared) we get:

B squared = C squared - A squared

height squared = 122 squared - 100 squared

height squared = 14844 - 10000

height squared = 4844

height = square root of 4844

height = 70 feet (rounded)

0x01 graphic

That is it..... well, almost. Since you are probably 5 to 6 feet tall, you were actually taking your angle measurements about 5 feet above the ground. Add this height to your result and you should be good to go, or get really close to the ground when you take your angle measurement and forget the slight error. If you wanted to be really technical, you could take the distance from your eyes to the ground, and the same angle that you measured at the top of your triangle and compute where the hypotenuse would actually terminate at the adjacent leg (if it were at ground level and extended far enough out). Do this by taking the tangent of the angle formed by your body and the now extended hypotenuse (which is the same angle as you measured with your inclinometer) multiplied times the distance of your eyes to the ground and add this number to the adjacent leg length. This would give you a new length for the adjacent leg (now at ground level and about 107 feet in my example with a 5 foot eye-to-ground distance) Then plug all of this back into the original equation like this:

107 / 35 coos =

Plug this number (131) into the next equation:

Height squared = 131 squared - 107 squared and you end up with:

75 feet...

Whew...

If you really are math averse (bless you!), you can avoid the math like this:

Take your inclinometer and sight in on your target. Take a reading. If it is less than 45 degrees, move away from your tree and continue to take readings until you get to a 45-degree angle. Do the opposite if your initial reading is greater than 45 degrees. Once you get a 45-degree angle, mark the spot on the ground. Now just use your tape measure and measure from that spot to your tree. You now have an isosceles triangle, and the distance from your mark to your tree will also be the height you are looking for. Of course, you'll still need to correct for the eye to ground distance. That was MUCH easier, huh? Not nearly as much fun, though.

I know, I know..... If you are just putting your antenna up, you could mark your rope every five feet or so with some tape then count the marks as you were putting it up. OR, if you are using thin twine to pull up your heavier support rope, just pull the rope up to the highest point, and mark it at the bottom then pull it down and measure it with a tape measure. Or..... Well, there is a bunch of ways to do this. I like this one because I get to exercise the old noggin a little bit. You could use this technique to figure out if that tree that is leaning towards your house is tall enough to be a worry. Or how high the center of your flat top is. Or how high the peak is of a roofline that you want to tack on a j-pole to. The inclinometer can be used for a lot of other things too. Quick and dirty way to figure out your look angle if you are trying to hit a satellite or measuring the steepness of a slope.

I apologize to all of you math heads out there for putting you through the mangled high school trig, but for the rest of us, I hope this is helpful. When someone asks you how high your dipole is, you can now lie with authority and say 100 feet!

Ted Forrest

KB5CQF

(No mother in laws were hurt during the writing of this article)

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by VY1PG on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
And if you don't want to bother with any math, get a 45 degree square (or something with a 45 degree angle) and walk away from the tree to about the distance you think the antenna is (your guestimation). View a 45 degree angle up (you're gonna have to figure out for yourself if you're holding the angle level, or use the protractor/string). If your angle is 45 degrees, add your height to the distance to the tree and you'll have the height of the antenna. (But Ted's way is much more fun and skill building). Thanks for the lesson in high-school geometry.

73.

Paul
 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by VA3SAX on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
you know if you used the tangent instead of the cosine then you could lose one math step and increase your accuracy

it goes like this(ignore apostrophes)
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''distance
tan(measure angle)=----------
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''height
to solve for height
'''''''''''Dist
H= -------
''''''''''tan(a)


I think I did that last bit right.
 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by W5FYI on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
We did this in physics class, and the height can be found from Tan°×Distance. But my dad, the original W5FYI, had an easier method that required only a yardstick, a lounge chair, and a glass or two of iced tea. He'd sit in the lounge chair and sip tea and occasionally held the yardstick upright to see where the end of its shadow fell, then used it to measure the shadow's length. When the shadow was exactly 36" long, he would sigh, get up, and measure the distance from the antenna's shadow to a point directly underneath it. Obviously, this distance would equal the antenna's height.

Dad could have used ratios as well, but he enjoyed having mom bring him iced tea while he did the hard work--waiting for the sun to get to the right place in the sky.
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by N0UY on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Hey Claude, that's pretty cool story about your Dad. I bet you could tell allot of other common sense things he did also. He sounds quite a bit like my own Dad. I miss him.

Nice article, and I like the humor that went into the whole thing. tnx

ray
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by W4VR on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Ted, that is indeed a very scientific way of finding out the height your wire antenna, but there has got to be a more simple way of doing this. The way I make this measurement is: shoot a monofilament line with 1 ounce sinker over the wire and back down to the ground, using my wrist rocket slingshot with side-mounted casting reel. Take a 100-foot tape measure and wrap the sinker a couple of turns through the little end loop on the beginning of the tape. Reel in the line until the sinker and tape are at the wire and read the tape measure on the ground. You'll get an accurate reading of height above ground this way. I also use the slingshot to put up my wire antennas.
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by KA3JLW on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
>>> He'd sit in the lounge chair and sip tea and occasionally held the yardstick upright to see where the end of its shadow fell, then used it to measure the shadow's length. When the shadow was exactly 36" long, he would sigh, get up, and measure the distance from the antenna's shadow to a point directly underneath it. <<<

While this method is decent, it is improved by swithcing the iced tea with beer chilled inversely to the ambient temperature.
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by G3LBS on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
>VY1PG said -
>And if you don't want to bother with any math, get a >45 degree square>
I was so lucky doing this my square had a spirit level in it!
It is called the Swanson Speedlite Square.
Buffalo Gil W2/G3LBS
 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by KL7AJ on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
It's so neat to see an article like this that, though simple, requires some actual thought! We really need to be teaching KIDS this stuff....lots more fun out in the trees than in dry trig classes~!

It's also important that we point out SEVERAL ways to do a problem...as demonstrated on this thread. This is so crucial to teaching critical thinking...something schools have forgotten about! (Not to mention the new ham tests!)

In FACT...this might be a great test question!

Eric
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by W6TH on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
.
I thought this was a lost art, but good to bring it back into ham radio.


How about tying 100 feet of nylon fishing string on the end of your arrow, send your arrow up to the antenna and then measure what is left on the nylon fishing reel.

One hundred feet of nylon and thirty feet remains on the reel, then the antenna must be up at seventy feet.

No need for the base, height and the hypotenuse use any longer.

W6TH

.:
 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by W3FLH on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Fantastic article! This is truly one of the best in a while.

I, too, have used fairly simple trig at work, much to the education & delight (alright, maybe exasperation & dismay) of my co-workers, to figure out support gussets, chamfer recesses, etc. But I digress...

Thanks for taking the time to put this together, I know it's a simple lesson I will use for a long time. Can't wait to get messy with the grandkids!

de Tony, W3FLH
73
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by W6TH on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
.
Another simple method to measure your antenna height is to remember the length of your coax or open wire line and check the remainder on the ground before going into the shack.

For todays ham radio operators the word to the wise is simplicity:


1. The property, condition, or quality of being simple or uncombined.
2. Absence of luxury or showiness; plainness.
3. Absence of affectation or pretense.
4.
1. Lack of sophistication or subtlety; naiveté.
2. Lack of good sense or intelligence; foolishness.
5.
1. Clarity of expression.
2. Austerity in embellishment.

It's as simple as that .
To most hams of today is like asking; how high is the moon.

W6TH

.:

 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by W9PMZ on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
If you are needing to see how high it is; it isn't high enough.......

73,

Carl - W9PMZ
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by KB5CQF on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks for reading and replying, folks. It was a fun project and article to put together. I am very much in the K.I.S.S. camp, but also enjoy little exercises such as this just for the enjoyment of doing them, especially if you can involve a child in the project. I just know that my evil high school trig teacher is out there smirking somewhere!
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by W6TH on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
.
KB5CQF
We could use more of this type of posting, but it doesn't seem to be for most in this day and age.


What must be put on more often is subjects that many will say how wrong one is, but with math, it would be very difficult for these modern day hams to prove that the math is wrong.

I enjoyed your post and don't hesitate to offer more in the future.

Thanks for the math refresher lesson.

73, W6TH

.:
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by AA4PB on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Math is never wrong - theory is seldom wrong - but we often misapply them and so end up with the wrong answer :-)
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by W6TH on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
.
by AA4PB on March 22, 2008
Math is never wrong - theory is seldom wrong - but we often misapply them and so end up with the wrong answer :-)

Not only the wrong answer, but the wrong explanation.

One doesn't really know it, only when they know how to explain and teach it, that is , correctly.

.:
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by W6TH on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
.
What KB5CQF was indicating what the height of the antenna was by using a right triangle where he had the angles in place of the unknown as the height and the base.

normally basically trig was taught as the square root of a squared plus b squared to find the c hypotenuse. KB5CQF could have had more fun by using \begin{displaymath} \sin(\theta) = \frac{\vert\vert AB\vert\vert}{\vert\vert AC\vert\vert} = \frac{\rm opposite}{\rm hypotenuse}\end{display math}.

See what I mean?

.:
 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by KC2POU on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I'd have done it the easy way, too. With line looped over the dipole then measured, such as many others have already suggested. BUT, I would have ultimately had to find out if my recollected/researched theory's results would have accurately reflected the actual results. So I would have ended up doing the experiment anyway. I know, I have issues.
 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by AB0RE on March 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Great Article!!! I can't wait to make an inclinometer and try this out myself. I've often wondered about the heights of various objects but never got around to finding the method for how to do this... imagine my delight when the answer fell into my lap! I may take this a step further and make a hat of out aluminum foil to use while measuring because the measuring tape and inclinometer probably won't keep the neighbors talking enough. 73 de Dan / ab0re
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by WD8DUP on March 23, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Good article. Nothing like a little math to exercise the "gray matter".
An ever easier method to determine the height that I learned from my father is to lean a board or other object of known height against the tree, backup some distance, then estimate how many of that length of object are between the ground and the antenna.
If a 5 foot plank of wood fits 5 times, you have 25 feet.
Not 100% accurate but how many of us say our antenna is 25 feet up when it's really only 23 .... ?



 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by VK2GWK on March 23, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks for the article. I inherited an old but perfectly working and accurate "sextant" from my Dad - sea captain - which I use for measuring hights and distances.

Henk http://vk2gwk.com
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by K6AER on March 23, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Nice article.

Due to all the trees found here in the Eastern Colorado another popular method is to count the number of ten foot tower sections and divide by ten for the structure height or use a hunting lazar range finder if you lose count from having you head tilted back for too long and passing out in the thin air.

I must admit I have used the trigonometry method but to get an accurate angle from level takes more skill than the math. In many cases, in a city environment, we don’t have the room to do a good distance reading on city streets. It is very hard to gage the center of a building. In the tower industry we use lasar range finders to accurately spot levels on towers and buildings. Some FCC licenses require accuracy’s of +/- 1 foot for tower height. We will go to the roof and shoot the laser to the street below and then go to the tower base on the roof and shoot to the antenna in question. Now you just add the two numbers for your Height Above Terrain.

Lasar range finders are coming way down in cost. Basic units with ranges up to 400 yards are under $200 with high yardage units going for up to $899. Top of the line is a Newcon at $11,200 but you will never need that kind of survey accuracy for hamster work. There are over 30 units to choose from and of course most are made by the great optic companies such as Nikon, Bushnell, Swarovski, Leica, Leupold and Zeiss.
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by K0BG on March 23, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Gosh, I guess I'm in the minority. Have a B&L electronic range finder. I measure the horizontal distance, and then the angled distance, and apply a little math, and bingo!

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by N0OKS on March 23, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Gee, if you can get an arrow into the tree how about tossing a line over the antenna and measuring its length? OOPS, gotta divide by two which you can do in your head. Sorry, math, which I teach, may be great, but thinking is more important.

NØOKS
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by K4JSR on March 23, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I don't care how high the antenna is. If it stays up,
it ain't high enough! If it stays up, it ain't big enough!! Them's the facts, folks. Read 'em and weep!!
Although I did enjoy the article. Jolly good show!
73,
Cal K4JSR
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by G3LBS on March 23, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
'Anything that can be measured is infinitely more valuable' - Eddington (Cosmologist - Brit)
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by N8BOA on March 23, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
This is easy "NOT HIGH ENOUGH"
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by AB9PZ on March 23, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
If you want to do some VERY easy antenna height calculations, do what I did. Put a shortened, trap dipole in your attic (homeowners' covenants....another sad story), so... 9' ceiling + 12" ceiling joist + probably another 24" above it in the attic....12' above the ground. I'm thinking the takeoff angle is steeper than a black diamond ski slope, and the impedance.....don't ask. Making ANY contacts is a real treat!

Cheers,

Brad
AB9PZ

 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by KI4FZY on March 23, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I am 16 and in high school i am taking trig.

Just hope my teacher does not see this site. I do not want her to get any ideas about tests. ;)

Great post friend!

73,
James NN4JM

CW DX
 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by LEER66 on March 24, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks for a great article. Being a person who has to go find the formula to work these kinds of things, I frequently take the low road. In these days of digital cameras making an estimate of just about any measurement is pretty easy. For an antenna in a tree, place or locate an object of known height at the same distance from the camera as the antenna you want to know the height of. Move back a distance that gets everything in the picture, say about 100" or so, to minimize vertical perspective distortion you would get it you were under the antenna, and shoot. You can now make a paper "ruler" the height of the known object and measure on the computer screen or print out the picture and use dividers the same way. Photo intelligence analyst (and county tax appraisers) use this method pretty well and they don't even need to go into your yard. The last method is a helium balloon on a string on a calm day.
73s
Bob KE5KDT
 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by K0EX on March 24, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
If you have the sun, a yard-stick (36") or a ruler of some known length, and a tape-measure you can do a similar trick.

(1) measure the length of the shadow (on the ground) from the base of the support to the point-of-interest (ie, where the antenna was over the tree branch in this example) with the tape-measure.

(2) hold the yardstick/ruler vertical and measure the length of it's shadow (on the ground) with the tape-measure.

(3) the ratio of the length of the yardstick to its shadow is the same as for the antenna's support and it's shadow.

Ex:

-- the antenna support casts a shadow 25ft long
-- the 3ft ruler casts a shadow 1ft long
-- how high is the antenna support?
--> 3ft/1ft = Xft/25ft, so X = 75ft

Be sure and measure the two shadows at about the same time. Don't go chase DX or have a a few cold biers in-between the measurements -- the sun will move on you! ;^)
 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by K6LX on March 24, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Tree was estimated my me to be about 50 feet or more. I borrowed an 8 foot grade pole from the contractor working next door and took a photo of my wife holding up the grade pole next to the tree with, of course, the entire tree in the picture. Then, just printed this and scaled off the height. Turned out to be 59 feet.
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by K4JSR on March 24, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
James said, "Just hope my teacher does not see this site. I do not want her to get any ideas about tests. ;)"

James how else would you expect to learn all of the
"TRIGs OF THE TRADE"?

Relax, We'll give you a secant chance!

73, Cal K4JSR

 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by WI7B on March 24, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

I guess, I'm even lazier.

You see the RED LINE strung across the tree branch in the diagram? I make it extra long, so it'll clear the branch and fall back to Earth. Before I throw it I measure its length. Then, after I've hung the antenna, I measure what extra line at the bottom of the tree. The difference is the antenna height, give or take.

73,

---* Ken
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by NR1X on March 24, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
i would use rise on run to make math much easier.. ie 35deg= 8.5 in rise on 12 in run ...8.5 x 100 = 850 in... then convert in to ft 850/12= 70.83333
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by KB5CQF on March 24, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
K4JSR - You are killing me, Cal. At least you had the courage to sine your name. ;)

Very interesting reading the different methods used by folks. Thanks again for all of the comments.

Ted KB5CQF



 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by W4MRH on March 24, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I gotta add one more.

All you need is a yardstick (or any stick).

Hold the yardstick in one hand with your arm level at shoulder height. Adjust the amount of yardstick Above your hand until the top is at eye level. Face the tree and move closer or farther from the tree until your hand is at the base of the tree and the top of the yardstick is at the antenna. Mark the spot on the ground and measure to the base of the tree. It's accurate within a couple of feet depending on how level the ground is.

Sean-KE5OZI
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by K4JSR on March 24, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Staying outside in the sun this much while measuring the height of antennas would make you a very TAN GENT.

Ted, just remember to never COSINE for anyone!

Of course if you don't wish to measure the height of your antenna you may COAX someone else to do it.

I'm outa here. My drummer just ran out of rim shots.

73, Cal K4JSR
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by KC8NTP on March 25, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I'm with Alan, KØBG. I believe what he was referring to was to stand back and get a reading with a range finder from the top and bottom and apply the Pythagorean theorem to get the unknown leg of the triangle, which would be the height of the antenna.

John, KC8NTP, east central Nevada
 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by KB2QQM on March 26, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I sure wish my XYL would ask me to hang an antenna for her !

Normally it's "Honey, for fun today, let's clean out the basement and sell all of your radios, that way you can give me the money so I can buy more Longerberger Baskets....."


NOT !
 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by KX0R on March 26, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
This is one most positive chain of responses we've seen lately! Thanks to all...

Another method I use for field work with antennas - simple and effective - is to mark distances on the window line that attaches to the feedpoint. A number every 5 feet is convenient. Use a Sharpie pen. When the antenna is pulled up in the tree, the feedline initially hangs straight down, so it's easy to see the distance right on the feedline, or make a close guess.

This method has the advantage that it measures at the feedpoint, which may be at a different height than the supports. It also has no errors caused by the sloping ground. Where I put up antennas the ground isn't usually flat.

The deeper question is "what is the effective height of my antenna?" Over dry rocky ridges the effective height may be greater than the measured height. My version of EZNEC doesn't model 3D surfaces, ground gradients, etc.

This was fun reading - made me remember my high school math teachers...

KX0R
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by K2GW on March 27, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Measuring the height of an object used to be a requirement to become a Second Class Boy Scout. Trig is nice, but there are two ways to do it with nothing but a stick as shown in most old Boy Scout handbooks.

Method one is the "Artists method". Stand back from the antenna so you can see the whole thing. Have a person of known height stand next to it (Having someone exactly five or six feet tall simplifies the math). Hold a stick in your hand at arms length and adjust your thumb so the end of the stick aligns with their head and your thumb aligns with their feet. You now have an angle marker to know what six feet (or five feet) looks like at that distance. Measure how many of them it takes to "walk up" the tower and you know how high the tower is through simple multiplication.

Method two is the "Timber " method. Get further back from the antenna and hold the stick so the top of the stick aligns with the top of tower and your thumb aligns with the base. Now rotate your hand 90 degrees to find the point on the ground where the top would hit if you chopped down the antenna. Pace the distance from this point back to the base and you know the height.

It's so easier that millions of 11 year olds have done it over the past 100 years with just a stick from the ground and without trig tables.

73

Gary, K2GW
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by K4DGW on March 27, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Great article and great responses from K2GW. Enjoyed the comments as much as the article.

David Wilburn
K4DGW
 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by NV2A on March 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
My math skills are zip. (I guessed on all the J-operator questions in the extra quiz!) All I know is that two sides of an eqilateral trangle are equal in length. I also know that midway between them is 45 degrees. Using the authors scheme, I keep backing up until the anlgle of the string measures 45 degrees. Then the height of the tree is the same as the distance from my feet to the trunk of the tree.

If there is a raging river or gorge in the way, I drag out the math books and seek out the formulas. So far I've had to do that once in 61 years, the other methode almost always works fine for me. (by the way, a piece of 14 guage copper wire works better then string. I just pinch the wire between my thumb and forefinger when I get everything lined up to read the angle. 73's NV2A
 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by N8FR on March 29, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Related Q signals?

QHA? How high is that antenna?
QBA? How big is that antenna?

73,
Fritz
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by AA4ZZ on April 3, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I got a cheap 100 foot tape measure and pull it up with my antenna support rope. It can also be used to measure the distance between support trees for planning antennas.
 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by N0EW on April 4, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I'm surprised no one brought up the simple memory aid:

Some Of Harry's Children Are Here The Others Aren't.

Sin = Opposite/Hypoteneuse

Cos = Adjacent/Hypoteneuse

Tan = Opposite/Adjacent

 
How High Is That Antenna?  
by K1GUN on April 5, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
sure a difficult and complicated way to do a simple task..on a sunny day close to noon grab a yard stick and support it between two bricks so that it as vertical as possible at high noon or there abouts measure the shadow of the yardstick and when the shadow is 36 inches long measure the length of the shadow of the tree.its pretty close for goverment work
 
RE: How High Is That Antenna?  
by HI8MVW on April 11, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I would rather attach a small weight to one end of a string, shoot it over the center on the antenna, bring that weight down to ground level and after bringing the other side of the string to the same length, cut that other side, pull the string down, and half of that total string length will be 100% acurate how high the atenna is... PIECE OF CAKE.
 
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