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Lecher Wire Follow-Up
Eric P. Nichols (KL7AJ)
on
March 26, 2008
View comments about this article!
My Follow-up to the Lecher Wire
I was elated with the response I got to my recent Lecher Wire post. As a follow up, last Friday at the March Arctic Amateur Radio Club meeting, I demonstrated my Lecher Wire. At any rate, my demonstration was equally well received in the flesh. Many of our old timers were almost tearful with nostalgia over seeing the thing, and a lot of “kids” (anyone under thirty) were totally mesmerized. We had one guy, somewhere in between say, “I've been playing with SWR bridges for twenty-five years and I never had a clue what I was actually doing. This is the first time I'd ever even heard of such a thing!”
This is what it's all about. All the textbook theory in the universe just won't give you the feel for things like actually having the hardware in your grubby little hands. This is why I love explaining things, to see the “aha!” light up the eyes of my rapt audience. The Lecher Wire is probably about as close as you're ever going to get to actually “seeing” radio waves.
I presented a little contest. After giving a basic demonstration, I asked if anyone (excluding the really old timers) would like to try to tell us what the frequency was of the R.F. signal in the thing. (I used a grid-dip oscillator to drive the Lecher Wire, and I really had no clue how accurate THAT thing was at UHF). One medium young feller came forward, and gave us the answer, which was EXACTLY right on the money. (Within the cursor thickness of my GDO, 348 MHz). I was duly impressed, not only that he got it right, never having seen the device before, but also that my 40 year old GDO was so accurate! (Confirmed later with an actual frequency counter). So it turned out my flamboyant demonstration device actually turned out to be a fairly precision instrument!
Next, I threw out another zinger. I asked what the standing wave ratio on my device was. Answers were all over the map, but a couple of guys got it right...INFINITE. So I asked the next question. “Here we have a transmission line, at UHF, with infinite standing wave ratio. How much loss do we have on it?” Again, answers were all over the map. This time I picked someone with a really WRONG answer...but someone who I thought SHOULD have known better. He boldly stated the losses would be huge.
“How would you measure that?” I prodded.
“Measure the voltage at one end and then measure it at the other,” he said, sounding a little less self-assured.
“Good answer,” I said. “Would you care to demonstrate for us?”
Fortunately my Lecher wire was a couple of wavelengths, plus some spare change, at the frequency of interest. My friend came forward, slid the meter to find a voltage peak real close to the generator, and squinted at the meter, scribbled on his mental scratch pad. He then slid it down to the far end, looking for another peak. It was IDENTICAL.
“Well, I'll be $%^*!@” he said, and returned to his seat.
I then put a 330 ohm termination on the end of my wire, and then showed how the meter read nearly half scale the entire length of the Lecher Wire. At first there were a few bumps in the voltage, but I then adjusted the spacing of the rods until it was absolutely flat. (By the way, for future reference, in case anyone's interested in duplicating this, two half-inch diameter copper pipes, spaced 4 inches apart, center-to-center, is real close to 330 ohms).
After coffee break, everyone wanted to come up and slide my meter around and twiddle with my GDO (another device a lot of those present had never seen before). I made my Lecher Wire big, bold, and indestructible, because I WANT people to get their grubby hands all over the thing. This is something we need to be teaching our new hams, just as much as theory.
(Incidentally, I understand a lot of our high schools have removed the actual LABORATORY from their chemistry classes. What kind of insanity is this? I know the professional worrywarts blanch at the thought that a student might suffer irreversible trauma upon experiencing a smelly chemical reaction, but good grief!) Our young people have been “virtualized” into oblivion.
More often than I care to consider I hear various hams on this forum and others say something like, “We need to get beyond the mad scientist image to really promote Amateur Radio...yada yada.”
If a young person can't be a mad scientist in ham radio, where CAN he be one? Obviously not in high school chemistry class any more. Let's face it, the young, optimistic, motivated mad scientists in Japan and China, and India and Pakistan, and Thailand and even South America are cleaning our clocks!
We can complain all we want about outsourcing and related issues. But I've worked with Indian and Chinese, and Pakistani and Malaysian undergrad students, and believe me, they GET this stuff! They have the PRINCIPLES down cold, often before they're out of high school. They don't have all the digital goodies, network analyzers and modeling software, or even DVMs that we take for granted, so they HAVE to do things the mad scientist way. (Although, not too surprisingly, it's easier to get actual electronic components in India than it is in Radio Shack, these days).
One of the reasons (if not THE major reason) amateur radio exists is to be a font of knowledge and technical expertise, upon which society as a whole may draw in both good times and bad. Amateur radio has a golden opportunity to take over where the educational systems and government are failing. Young radio amateurs should emerge from our ranks with a real grasp of how this universe is held together and the ability to lead this country again into technical prominence. If THAT doesn't qualify as public service, then, pray tell, what does!
You see, the Lecher Wire is more than two pieces of copper. It displays the law and order inherently built into the physical universe. It is not subject to politics, fad, fashion, or rhetoric. A Democrat or a Republican will obtain exactly the same results with a Lecher Wire. A Christian or a Muslim will obtain exactly the same results with a Lecher Wire. An old geezer like me and my pink-and lavender-haired teenage daughter both get identical results with the Lecher Wire.
How many other things in life are so reliable and constant?
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by WA3SKN on March 26, 2008
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I totally agree with the "hands-on" approach!
There are too many hams that do not know how to use ANY measurement device.
73s.
-Mike.
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Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by K4ZN on March 26, 2008
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Excellent point on classroom methodology and what I believe is correct commentary on a serious deficiency in American education (I am Headmaster at a small Christian Academy). The loss of 'hands on' experimentation and the 'virtualization' of the sciences frequently has the unfortunate effect in the mind of the student (and many young faculty) of implying that there is no objective truth in the universe, and that even science is based on subjective opinion. This kind of hands on experiment is real science. It demonstrates that there is knowable, verifiable, measurable objective truth in the universe that God has created. In the ham radio community, how much strife would be removed if we all returned to serioius study and principles and procedures of controlled experimentation.
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by K0BG on March 26, 2008
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Nice article Eric. Unfortunately, I'm afraid Mike correct as well.
If there is one thing which will come out of your very well written article, is this; Some folks will (still) come away with the thought that SWR is a good indication of resonance. Obviously, it isn't.
The MFJ 259 has made the job of find resonance very simple, but if you don't know how to use (read) it, it isn't any better than a $20 SWR bridge.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by KT8K on March 26, 2008
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I totally agree with the concept of "mad scientists" as a positive good to society. Tomorrow's great ideas almost always appear "mad" to us today. In many cases that is because otherwise we would already be using them. (I admit that in some cases technology needs to advance to enable the new and mad-seeming ideas, but that only means we need still more mad scientists.)
I completely agree that the lack of hands-on experience and our highly risk-averse, litigation-ridden North American society is squashing our once great tendency to invent. As globalization drives the manufacturing out of North America, I always thought the one thing we had left is our propensity for invention, but unfortunately we have been driving that out, too. Ham radio is one of only a few forces I have seen trying to preserve and restore our innovative national character. We need more hams taking Lecher wires into our schools, scout meetings, hands-on museums, and anywhere else where young people can be simultaneously entertained and interested in science.
Thanks for another great article, Eric. Please keep it up! 73 de kt8k - Tim
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by AE6RO on March 26, 2008
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We can always buy new inventors from foreign countries. We simply can't take the risk of having any Americans with an IQ higher than 99. John
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by K4JSR on March 26, 2008
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Good follow up, Eric. Would you settle for a highly incensed scientist instead of a mad scientist?
I do like your idea to "LECHER" fingers do the walking
through the standing waves.
I really long for the old days when a ham exam had a question about a battery with internal resistance and a load. That simple set up not only explained things like why a car battery that is somewhat in need of a charge draws more current than a fully charged battery does, but also demonstrated the simplest form of maximum power transfer with matched impedance.
Of course that required thinking on the ham candidate's part rather than rote memorization.
Just one question, Eric; Will these fine articles continue when nights are not so long? :)
73 from the sunny south,
Cal K4JSR
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by KL7AJ on March 26, 2008
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Hi Cal!
Well, the air in my shack often gets "incensed" when I torch a resistor. :)
Actually I'm going to be working hot and heavy on "The Opus of Amateur Radio Knowledge and Lore" this summer...hopefully having it ready for publication...or at least submission. I consider writing my "real Job" anyway. What I do for a living is merely "tentmaking" and fodder for my writing. :)
eric
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by K6CRC on March 26, 2008
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As a former engineer now marketing consultant, I can see you point of view on non-US ingenuity. A student in the second or third world has fewer distractions and a higher motivation to improve their lot in life. I smart kid in rural VietNam or Ecuador can view most classes from MIT and other schools on-line, can read up on new technologies, and, most importantly, see what life is like in the other world. Of course, in the US these smart kids can go to MIT et al, but their motivation competes with video games and social distractions.
When I lived in Hong Kong in the 1980s, I saw people working hard with a mission to improve the lot of themselves and their families. I came home to the same blah-blah from unions and big-company employees who only cared about the quality of donuts delivered at work.
Motivation to improve one's lot in life is a very powerful thing, much more powerful than sitting back and complaining.
my $0.02
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by KE4MOB on March 26, 2008
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When I was in high school (late 80s) it was no big deal to pour used chemicals down the drain. By the early 1990's my Organic Chemistry Lab was "microscale"...everything was in milligram and microliter quantities. I can remember breaking a mercury thermometer and the professor went into a full blown haz-mat drill.
Heck, I can remember rolling mercury around on the kitchen table when I was a kid....you mean that stuff is dangerous (wink, wink, twitch, twitch)???
My wife bought my kids a "chemistry set" for Christmas. Came with 2 real chemicals and a bunch of crap. Now the chemistry set I had when I was a boy...now THAT was a chemistry set!!!
We are way too protected these days. A little electrical burn and toasted nose hairs never hurt anyone.
Trust me.
On the other hand, my children have learned to duck and cover when I say "Hey kids, watch this!!"
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Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by N0EW on March 26, 2008
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Hi Eric,
Good ideas all around. I certainly agree at any rate.
Perhaps this was addressed in the previous article, but have you posted a web site covering the design and implementation of this demonstration? That could be an useful resource for other clubs wishing to duplicate your presentation.
If you don't have a web site upon which to host this I expect you could put it up on mine. Just thinking out loud.
73-Erik n0ew
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Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by N0AH on March 26, 2008
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On on my 12th reading..............I'm looking.....I'm looking..........
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by KL7AJ on March 26, 2008
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Hi, Erik with a K. I plan on doing a You-Tube demonstration of this as soon as I can grab a camera and some time.
Eric with a C
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by W6TH on March 26, 2008
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.
by AE6RO on March 26, 2008.
We can always buy new inventors from foreign countries. We simply can't take the risk of having any Americans with an IQ higher than 99. John
W6TH explains how our nation is controlled.
All fifty United States have what is called a "PUPPET STATE". ( A puppet state is a country that is nominally independent, but in reality, under the control of another power. This is the United States of America and the reason why explained by Eric, KL7AJ.
As can be seen in most of our nomination for presidency, people of these United States vote by popularity and promises, not what is considered best for the these people of the United States of America.
Thanks Eric for bringing to our attention of how dummed down America is and will always be with our present controlled Congress, Government.
Food for thought.
W6TH
.:
it" government and then comes the Federal Government to
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by KL7AJ on March 26, 2008
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NS6Y:
Uh, yeah. Since this article is about the Lecher Wire, I imaginte I might have said Lecher Wire. :)
eric
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by WA1RNE on March 26, 2008
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Eric,
This is good stuff - the type of hands-on learning that should be included in a Demonstrated Skills element in our exams.
Can you imagine the creativity that might spawn from several thousand hams who really understand transmission lines and antenna theory?
One thousand hams represents just ** 0.15% ** of the current number of U.S. licensees.....
...WA1RNE
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by W6TH on March 26, 2008
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.
Sorry, I misunderstood and thought you said lynching wire.
.:
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by W6TH on March 26, 2008
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.
Just put this before any other thoughts:
The dumming down for entrance into ham radio was nothing more than money. The more, the merrier of big spenders.
America runs on Dunkin Donuts, but governments run on Dunkin money.
There is no excuse for being dummed down as plenty to learn from the internet and the best Elmer one can find and it's tax free. Or that is for the present.
For knowledge, you either want of don't want, it's all up to you.
An old saying: God helps those that help themselves, God help those that get caught helping themselves.
.:
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by WA1RNE on March 26, 2008
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There is no excuse for being dummed down as plenty to learn from the internet and the best Elmer one can find and it's tax free. Or that is for the present.
For knowledge, you either want of don't want, it's all up to you.
>>> OK, Vito that's fine. But as you know, some concepts are better learned while in the classroom or in the lab in conjunction with other tools - like the Internet.
IMO, transmission line and antenna theory is not nearly as easy to digest as DC or low frequency AC circuits, maybe with the exception of switching power converters.
Eric's session on transmission lines is a case in point, where for a diverse audience, the concepts became much clearer - even for the guys who were using SWR bridges for the past 25 years but didn't understand what the instrument was really telling them.
In the end, this is *positive* stuff, all heading in the right direction for hams.
...WA1RNE
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by WI7B on March 26, 2008
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Eric,
If I might just comment on great lessons learned from the Lecher wire experiment iself.
I believe the source of the supersitious confusion hams may harbor for SWR arises from the honest desire to avoid costly or time-consuming damage to their rigs and their coax installation.
While it is safe to play with infinite standing wave ratios on a Lecher wire, it is rather unsafe to do so on 50-ohm hardline. Transmission line, after all, is designed to transport radio energy from the transmitter to the radiator. It does so best when flat-lined, its impendance matched to radiator and source.
Since 50-ohm coax attached to the 50-ohm output impedance of ours rigs are specified, the unknown variable in our impedance phase-space (for most of us) is the frequency-dependent terminating impedance of our antenna.
Attaching various type antennas to the terminating end of the Lecher wire gives even further insight. Adding a receiver some distance away gives additonal insight into the relationship between SWR and actual singal strength and tis optimization.
Just a thought for further demonstrations.
73,
---* Ken
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by KA4KOE on March 26, 2008
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Cal
I see your not pinin' for the halcyon days of yesterday, when the dudes were dead, and QST fame hadn't boiled my haid.
Time to up your meds and your pickled egg intake. You're off your game today.
FEELEEP
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by KG6WLS on March 26, 2008
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up Reply
by W6TH on March 26, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
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by AE6RO on March 26, 2008.
<<W6TH explains how our nation is controlled.
As can be seen in most of our nomination for presidency, people of these United States vote by popularity and promises, not what is considered best for the these people of the United States of America.
Thanks Eric for bringing to our attention of how dummed down America is and will always be with our present controlled Congress, Government.>>
::I nominate Vito for president. :)
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by NL7W on March 26, 2008
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This topic reminds me of a great book surrounding it, Reflections: Transmission Lines and Antennas, by Walter Maxwell. It was a real eye-opener. I noticed Amazon has seven in-stock now, and heartily recommend this book to those interested.
Kudos to Eric and Mr. Maxwell, W2DU, for writing eloquently about this commonly misunderstood subject.
73.
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RE: FEELEEP Of The DED Fame--No Fortune
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by K4JSR on March 26, 2008
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KOE sed, "Time to up your meds and your pickled egg intake. You're off your game today."
I disagree, sir. My highly esteemed spousal unit sent me to the showers. She Who Must Be Obeyed (SWMBO) said that I was already too gamey!! Luckily no hamfests to impress with my "Airs of Distinction".
Meanwhile I'll raise your pickled eggs and see you with some left over green beer from Savannah's St. Paddy's Day!
Maybe a pig ear sandwich w/Garlic and Sour Kraut too.
Maybe that will make your Dead Electrical Dudes enjoy
the rigors of mortis. They don't go to hamfests any more!! (Lucky Stiffs!)
73 and have fun TVI'ing your HOA!!
Cal K4JSR
PS. I used to think that CCR meant Credence Clearwater Revival. But then who am I? I'm just Jeremiah, the 300 lb frog with the mighty fine VCO whine.
PPS. Eric, meet Feeleep. Feeleep, meet Eric!
PPPS. Dr. House gobbled up all of the good stuff! :(
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RE: Vito For President!!
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by K4JSR on March 26, 2008
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Vito sed, "America runs on Dunkin Donuts, but governments run on Dunkin money."
Sir, over here in the gloriously wonderful Southeast we run on Krispy Kreme Doughnuts.
Also 807s in long neck bottles, pickled eggs, garlic
laced anchovies, pickled pig's feet, limburger cheese grits, Crisco sandwiches and our favorite--chicken
fried Twinkies. All washed down with moonshine laced iced tea or buttermilk.
Before you can become President you must learn more about fine nutritional culinary delights.
73 and bon apitite!
Cal K4JSR
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RE: Lecher Wire
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by KC8PPD on March 26, 2008
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Can anyone recommend any reading about this experiment? I don't have the slightest idea of these devices and wish that I had this in college (graduated in 1994 EE).
Do these experiment involve any sparks at all? Or just low power/voltage for demonstrations?
- Ketut, KC8PPD
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RE: Antenna You ask,. What is vswr.
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by W6TH on March 26, 2008
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.
OK, you have asked for it and here is lesson number one.
When Xc equals Xl, or put in easier words, when capacitive reactance equals inductive reactance this then equals zero, that is zero reactance. Now what is left is the resistance, radiation resistance and then it is called impedance because E divided by I equals Z, Z is denoted impedance.
Should an antenna not be resonant, a matching device is used to match the impedance to the antenna load. Yes the antenna may not be resonant, but the matching does help to initiate a load for maximum transfer of energy.
Opposition to the flow of alternating current caused by the inductance and capacitance in a circuit rather than by resistance.
Now answer me, who understands and who doesn't? Let's get the ball rolling and let the elmering begin here.
One of the GREAT THINGS about Amateur Radio is the willingness for the Hams to help each other.
No one, and I do mean NO ONE person can know every detail about every aspect of Amateur Radio.
This is where Elmering comes in. Hams from varying backgrounds and interests are able and willing to share their knowledge and experience with other "Hams".
You to should strive to be an Elmer. Study, experiment, and share. It is this investment in other Hams that will keep the hobby alive and thriving.
GL, W6TH
.:
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Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by W6TH on March 26, 2008
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RE: Lecher Wire Reply
by KC8PPD on March 26, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Can anyone recommend any reading about this experiment? I don't have the slightest idea of these devices and wish that I had this in college (graduated in 1994 EE).
Do these experiment involve any sparks at all? Or just low power/voltage for demonstrations?
- Ketut, KC8PPD
This post is not an experiment, but just how a quarter wave feed line functions in progress, that is, when properly instrumented and installed.
The Lecher wire; A device for recording, measuring, or controlling, especially such a device functioning as part of a control system, as an antenna system.
W6TH
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by W6TH on March 26, 2008
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Ketut, KC8PPD
Don't rush into RF as it takes about 20 years to become an RF engineer.
As an EE, it will only take about 4 years to become an EE.
W6TH
.:
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RE: Lecher Wire
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by KL7AJ on March 26, 2008
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Here are a bunch of photos of my Lecher Wire. Enjoy!
Eric
http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=154490&highlight=lecher
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RE: Lecher Wire
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by G3LBS on March 27, 2008
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I couldn't believe it when I came to America and found that Physics was taught in a classroom not a laboratory - in ONE year.
When I taught it in England Physics ran right through the secondary school and the young kids loved the experimental work. Nobody died from it.
Pay the Physics teachers more to recruit them!
Gil W2/G3LBS
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RE: Lecher Wire
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by AK2B on March 27, 2008
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Nice pictures, Eric. Looks easy enough to build but will it work as well without a cat?
Tom, AK2B
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RE: Lecher Wire
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by WI7B on March 27, 2008
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Great Lecher wire job...even wood-stained! Just add the meters sticks.
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RE: The Inspector
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by K4JSR on March 27, 2008
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As Barbara Striesand would sing, "People who have felines are the luckiest people in the world."
Vito, I thought Elmer was Elsie's husband. Weren't they just beasts of Borden?
73, Cal K4JSR
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by N7YA on March 27, 2008
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W6TH sez...
"As can be seen in most of our nomination for presidency, people of these United States vote by popularity and promises, not what is considered best for the these people of the United States of America."
...im still rubbing my eyes! There is something that Vito and i completely agree on...every word of it!
This cant be, ill have to go back and reread this again, but so far it makes total sense to me.
73...Adam, N7YA
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by W6TH on March 28, 2008
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KL7AJ on March 28, 2008
We HAVE a poor president.
These are not poor presidents, they are all millionaires, they are bad presidents out for greed and power.
And we are getting another bad president. I can't remember ever having a good decent American president, they were all habitual liars and all should have been tried for treason.
Take notice none ever mention the word Constitution, the law of our land in their pack of lies.
W6TH
.:
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by W6TH on March 28, 2008
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by G3LBS on March 28, 2008
In a Democracy a poor person could be President.
As far as I recall, all presidents were of wealth and past down through generations.
Hillary Rodham Clinton wants to bring the price of fuel oil down by taxing the oil companies. She is a Tax....idermist. Skinning all Americans.
W6TH
.:
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by W6TH on March 28, 2008
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.
Bush wants to set up a PUPPET STATE of Iraq and then have the USA to overpower the Iraq puppet government.
This is what our 50 USA states are, a PUPPET STATE.
W6TH, Live Free or Die.
.:
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by K4JSR on March 28, 2008
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Eric, in the vein of George Washington beig the first radio ham, I offer you the little known historical fact of just who invented the Lecher Wire.
It was none other than that great Cherokee Indian Chief and Confederate Army General Standing Wavie.
73, Cal K4JSR
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by G3LBS on March 29, 2008
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Sorry I asked that last question I have discovered he was a loose coupler
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by W6TH on March 29, 2008
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.
by K4JSR
Eric, in the vein of George Washington beig the first radio ham, I offer you the little known historical fact of just who invented the Lecher Wire.
It was none other than that great Cherokee Indian Chief and Confederate Army General Standing Wavie.
73, Cal K4JSR
by G3LBS
Was he a lecher then?
by G3LBS
Sorry I asked that last question I have discovered he was a loose coupler
by W6TH
All of them were grounded.
.:
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by K4JSR on March 29, 2008
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Hey Vito,
He was a General in the Army. That means he was a
"GROUNDED POUNDER" ! :)
I know. I don't have a "LEG" to stand on!
73, Cal K4JSR
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by KL7AJ on March 29, 2008
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I can't handle any more PUNishment.
"I'll have to send that telegram again", Tom said, remorsefully.
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by N2EY on March 30, 2008
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KL7AJ: ""I'll have to send that telegram again", Tom said, remorsefully."
---
"Tom Swift just gave me a report of 569C!" she chirped.
"This is the worst way to open a clogged drain," said Tom succinctly.
"I like camping out." he said intently.
"That's no bull" he uttered.
"Adjust the tone control for more highs!" he boomed.
"Gluing the veneer to the cabinet was the toughest part of that old radio's restoration" she replied.
"This new superregen sounds awful" he hissed.
"This old fish tank aereator system is great for etching PC boards!" she bubbled.
"Well, I'd better get on with measuring that coil's parameters," Tom said with reluctance.
73 de Jim, N2EY
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by KI9A on March 31, 2008
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Wow. Why bring politics into a HAM RADIO FORUM?
Lets keep talking about the majic of wireless communication, the fun we all have with it, and what we can do to make more fun. I swear, these clowns that have the need to apply their political views with anything, ang everything in life, have some SERIOUS life issues they need to deal with. I'm not kidding here. They need to see a shrink, and find why they are so damned bitter in life, that they have the underlying urge to hammer either the dems, or repubs in EVERY thing they say. Guys, it gets old. Lets leave this bullcrap for a politcal forum. I am sure there are tons of them that you can post your puke on, and other bitter old men such as yourself, can read it, and get exicted enough to begin drooling around the mouth, and post more assinine stuff.
Lets keep it out of our HOBBY, huh?
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by W6TH on March 31, 2008
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by KI9A on March 31, 2008
Wow. Why bring politics into a HAM RADIO FORUM?
This is not politics, but what our congress is doing to its American people. We have a Constitution and the Bill of Rights which are not taught at the Yale University/ College and is up to the American people to preserve it.
All 50 states of the United States are PUPPET GOVERNMENTS and the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT tell us what we can do and what not we can do. It doesn't matter what your local Government achieves when the FEDS can take it away from us.
Anyway you look at it you don't have a good standing as to help keep our law of the land to stand firm.
Your political education as to the Constitution and its Bill of Rights mean nothing to you as it can be seen in your display of nonsense in your past posting.
You need the shrink and I am a man and I am here to be of help, to help all mankind. Whether you like it or not.
W6TH
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by G3LBS on March 31, 2008
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There's no room for politics here because ham radio is not a way of life it is life itself. We should be dedicated to it.
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by KI9A on March 31, 2008
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W6TH: "This is not politics, but what our congress is doing to its American people. "
Bullshit. Grow up. THis is politics, and has NOTHING to do with our hobby. Go crawl back under your rock. I'll help, since, of course, I am a champion of mankind.
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by KI9A on March 31, 2008
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By the way, W6TH, did I call you out by name on my 1st post?? nope. Feeling like the guilty party, eh?
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by KI9A on March 31, 2008
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Vito, I just re-read my 1st post, and your response. Are you suffering from dementia, or what? Your dribble is purely political. Nothing else. The name of the site is EHAM, not ERUSH. We talk about HAM RADIO here, not the clowns in congress, or the village idiot president ( as you can see, I think BOTH parties are 2 cheeks off the same ass).
If you want to talk politics, google political forums, don't post that crap here.
You are beginning to bore me anyway, I'm QSying 5 up.
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by W6TH on March 31, 2008
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.
Five up may even turn out worse for you, be prepared, don't live in the dark.
You new vanity callers are really something to wonder if the government made a wise choice for you or themselves.
.For you Brit, you are in the same boat and lived under these same circumstances so are well reacquainted with your parliament. ((( 1. A national representative body having supreme legislative powers within the state.)))
2. Parliament:: The national legislature of various countries, especially that of the United Kingdom, made up of the House of Lords and the House of Commons.
You are right at home, me Lord, a PUPPET GOVERNMENT.
.:
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by KI9A on March 31, 2008
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"You new vanity callers are really something to wonder if the government made a wise choice for you or themselves."
Oh boy, Vito, you really must be older than dirt, eh? New vanity calls?? Had this one since 1997 ( thats 11 years), and been a ham for 31 years, out of my 44 years on this earth. So, yup, I'm new. But, then again, so is color TV, and transistor radios...
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by N2EY on April 1, 2008
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W6TH writes: "All 50 states of the United States are PUPPET GOVERNMENTS and the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT tell us what we can do and what not we can do. It doesn't matter what your local Government achieves when the FEDS can take it away from us."
State governments aren't "puppets" of the federal government. They're just an intermediate level between local and federal. That's middle-school stuff, not university level.
The Constitution (including the amendments) determine and limit the powers of government. Part of that limitation is that no state may make laws which contradict those of the federal government.
For example, the Communications Act of 1934, as amended, reserved the power to regulate radio to the federal government, in the form of the FCC. A state or local government cannot have its own radio regulations unless authorized to do so by FCC.
W6TH: "Anyway you look at it you don't have a good standing as to help keep our law of the land to stand firm."
In what way?
73 de Jim, N2EY
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by W6TH on April 1, 2008
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W6TH: "Anyway you look at it you don't have a good standing as to help keep our law of the land to stand firm."
In what way?
To ease your mind, the Federal Government has and does over rule any of our state rules or laws and can even send military into each and every state without the consent, permission of the state government approval or its people. The United Nations can replace our own military to abide by the law of our land, that is what the UN is for and no other reason it has been formed.
Bush and his weapons of mass destruction and never found, then changed to how bad the king of Iraq is and how he is treating the people. Bush started a war on Iraq for his own benefit, a Bush war, not for the benefit of its people. Bush broke the law of our land by false indication that Iraq was a threat to The United States, which as you and I know, there was no threat.
Do you want to go back to Abraham Lincoln, where he used our military service to quiet down a simple action against its people.
It is very hard to discuss any situation with you N2EY, because you mis-interpret the internet and also the Constitution of these United States.
You can never admit your copies of the internet for your information which at many times you yourself do not interpret.
You know it all, what more can I say to a know it all?
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by N2EY on April 1, 2008
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W6TH: "Anyway you look at it you don't have a good standing as to help keep our law of the land to stand firm."
N2EY: "In what way?"
W6TH: "To ease your mind, the Federal Government has and does over rule any of our state rules or laws and can even send military into each and every state without the consent, permission of the state government approval or its people."
That's nothing new. Been that way since the beginning of the USA. The Constitution is set up that way.
There are checks and balances, though. The states send elected representatives to the House and Senate, who then make Federal laws. Every state has a say in those laws.
And if enough states agree, the Constitution can be changed to whatever they want it to be. So the Federal government isn't 100% in control of the states.
W6TH: "The United Nations can replace our own military to abide by the law of our land, that is what the UN is for and no other reason it has been formed."
No, that's not true at all.
W6TH: "Bush and his weapons of mass destruction and never found, then changed to how bad the king of Iraq is and how he is treating the people. Bush started a war on Iraq for his own benefit, a Bush war, not for the benefit of its people. Bush broke the law of our land by false indication that Iraq was a threat to The United States, which as you and I know, there was no threat."
You got that right! Dubya believed what bad sources told him and ignored the rest. Vietnam all over again.
Ms. Clinton or Mr. Barack will clean up Dubya's mess. As usual.
W6TH: "Do you want to go back to Abraham Lincoln, where he used our military service to quiet down a simple action against its people."
You mean the War Between The States, aka The War of Northern Aggression? IMHO, that terrible war could have been avoided.
All that was needed to avoid it was for there to have been a Constitutional Amendment to set up a procedure to allow states to secede. Those states that wanted to leave could have proposed such an amendment, and been such pests about it that the rest of the states would have been glad to let them go.
But they didn't even try.
Or, those states that wanted to leave could have simply been allowed to leave. It would have been interesting to see how they would have fared on their own.
The truly ironic thing is that while the USA makes a lot of noise about being "the land of the free", the mother country from whom the colonies rebelled (Great Britain), abolished the owning of human beings decades before the USA did. And did it peacefully.
W6TH: "It is very hard to discuss any situation with you N2EY, because you mis-interpret the internet and also the Constitution of these United States."
How? I simply state the facts as I see them, clearly and openly. This is middle-school civics stuff; they teach it to 7th graders around here.
I think your difficulty is with the fact that I don't agree with you, and won't alter reality to make you feel good.
W6TH: "You can never admit your copies of the internet for your information which at many times you yourself do not interpret."
That sentence does not make any sense at all.
W6TH : "You know it all, what more can I say to a know it all?
.:"
I don't know it all. But I do know some things.
73 de Jim, N2EY
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by W6TH on April 1, 2008
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N2EY
Do you want me to interpret this for you?
The Constitution (including the amendments) determine and limit the powers of government. Part of that limitation is that no state may make laws which contradict those of the federal government.
You are confused on this one I can assure you.
I read as; The Constitution (including the amendments) determine and limit the powers of government.
That is right, The Constitution of These United States to limit the powers of government.
Which means that the Iraq war is unconstitutional, for one of many ventures; An undertaking that is dangerous, daring, or of uncertain outcome, never having a threat against The United States.
The United states setting up a PUPPET Government in Iraq and then the United States Government can use this PUPPET Government to,for the advantage of These United States as required and needed.
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by W6TH on April 1, 2008
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W6TH: "Bush and his weapons of mass destruction and never found, then changed to how bad the king of Iraq is and how he is treating the people. Bush started a war on Iraq for his own benefit, a Bush war, not for the benefit of its people. Bush broke the law of our land by false indication that Iraq was a threat to The United States, which as you and I know, there was no threat."
You got that right! Dubya believed what bad sources told him and ignored the rest. Vietnam all over again.
So the war with Iraq is unconstitutional.
....................................................
W6TH: "To ease your mind, the Federal Government has and does over rule any of our state rules or laws and can even send military into each and every state without the consent, permission of the state government approval or its people."
That's nothing new. Been that way since the beginning of the USA. The Constitution is set up that way.
I don't believe you read the constitution and understood this part. The constitution says we are not to have an military army in pace time and then only have in case of a war.
.....................................................
And if enough states agree, the Constitution can be changed to whatever they want it to be. So the Federal government isn't 100% in control of the states.
Congress makes the changes without the agreement of the States. Most times sneaks them in without the peoples voice.
....................................................
All that was needed to avoid it was for there to have been a Constitutional Amendment to set up a procedure to allow states to secede. Those states that wanted to leave could have proposed such an amendment, and been such pests about it that the rest of the states would have been glad to let them go.
But they didn't even try.
You took this off of the internet and is not correct. A bill was initiated and somehow it disappeared just like the bill in 1812 where no lawyers were to hold an political office within the government.
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W6TH: "You can never admit your copies of the internet for your information which at many times you yourself do not interpret."
It means that the stuff you copy from the internet, confuses you to the extent to properly explain.
...................................................
As I previously mentioned, you know it all and now the whole world can visualize that America, these United States, are controlled by a centralized government which we as Americans call the Federal Government. Imagine this for folks to read twenty or thirty years from now and will be convinced that all of the 50 United States of America are controlled by the Congress and our political Federal Government and not by the American people. All 50 States are PUPPET STATES>
Actually, there is no longer an Constitution of These United States of America as it has been buried and done away with. Congress gets the applause for this and Approval by their clapping of hands.
W6TH...Death is not the worst of evil.
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RE: Lecher Wire Follow-Up
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by KI9A on April 2, 2008
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Again, remind me how any of this stuff from w6th has to do with ham radio?????????
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