No One Cares Unless It's Them
from
John E. Conefrey, W4IVW
on
April 14, 2008
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
I had to stop and think what I could call this little story and finally said I would
call it like it is. At the strong urging of several of my amateur friends I now tell
this story. Hopefully it might help to keep too many other amateurs from
losing their licensed rights to operate in the ham bands they desire to use to
big money corporations and cure a lack of support from people and laws
that are supposed to protect the amateur’s licensed privileges.
This story is about the reasons why I am giving up on ham radio. It is certainly
not because I want to but because a large CATV company has forced me
to shut down my station... not because I’m causing interference, but
because of the horrendous level of interference I now receive from CATV on
the allocated amateur frequencies I choose, enjoy and prefer to operate
on. I am thoroughly disgusted and very bitter with the outcome of my efforts
to seek relief from the interference.
Up until or about January 18, 2007, I had absolutely no interference
what-so-ever, I must repeat, I had no interference what-so-ever from the
CATV company’s system here in Indian River County, Florida. I went to
participate in the ARRL VHF contest in mid-January of 2007 and found that
the frequencies I wanted to use were buried in a continuous 20dB over S9
signal level of some kind.
I did a lot of searching with my equipment and found that the primary source
of interference was being transmitted on 145.250 MHz which happens to be
CATV channel 18. This channel, as with all cable channels, I understand,
have a bandwidth of 6MHz. Need I say more what that does to weak signal
Dxing. Tuning through the 2 meter band area I normally operate indicated
harmonics of various signal strengths and band widths originating from the
original frequency. Signal strengths on the primary CATV channel 18 (145.250
MHz) at my location are at full S-meter scale most of the time with harmonics
above and below the primary frequency.
I further investigated other CATV channel frequencies that might be in or
near the other two primary bands that I utilize for weak signal and satellite
Dxing. I was alarmed when I found the same interference on the UHF ham
bands as well. My guess at the time was it was from CATV channel 59
(433.250MHz), channel 60 (439.250 MHz) and channel 61 (445.250 MHz) and
others. The 6 meter band had some lower level signals that most likely were
harmonics from CATV channels above and below the 6 meter band. The
harmonics were there most likely from what I truly believe were "new"
transmission strength levels needed for growth that suddenly appeared
mid-January of 2007 at my location area. The poor condition of the CATV
cable distribution system in my opinion is now leaking it’s signal.
Before I go on with this story, let me state that any individual group, ARRL
officials, FCC officials or any CATV company official that does not believe
what I have stated so far, may visit the area with their own detection
equipment and see and hear for themselves what has forced me to lose my
FCC licensed rights to operate in the allocated two meter amateur and 70
cm bands. You will not need any fancy detection equipment or antenna
systems.
To continue this story which I will make every attempt to minimize it’s length, I
took extensive measures to record tons of data of the actual interference
signals. These were audible recordings in different modes (fm, usb, cw, etc.)
and visual recordings. This documentation was on going and involved all the
frequencies and more that I have not mentioned. Samples are available to
those requesting by email as I have also kept and maintained every written
word and email by those involved in this fiasco.
I decided that I would personally take samples of this documentation to the
office of the local CATV "Network Operations Supervisor" and discuss "their
problem" with him. His eyes widened as he viewed and listened to the
evidence. I explained that it was my desire to allow him reasonable time to
do whatever is required to mitigate "their problem" promptly. I also
mentioned that I was also heavily involved in ARES emergency
communications in our county and that I was out of service. I also notified
the CATV company corporate office as well.
I also was very clear in stating that I never had interference from CATV until
mid-January of 2007. I also made it quite clear that it was my desire to
cooperate and not notify the FCC. He stated that he did not want the FCC
involved either. I offered all my assistance required to help out and left.
The results were CATV Engineers and the CATV Supervisor in my home with
their test equipment to see for themselves several times over. I kid you not
when I say their comment to each other the first visit was "we’ve got a
problem".
In short, a show was put on for me. I was told that this did not occur suddenly
as I originally stated but had been occurring slowly over the years because
of bad CATV cable connections. From absolutely no interference to the
signal strength at my location slowly happening just did not happen slowly!
One day clear frequencies and the next overwhelming interference!! The
show goes on...
After weeks of trucks and CATV technicians performing all kinds of tests and
my actual going out and locating cable system leaks for them and building
and supplying a yagi antenna, I gave up and filed an official, extremely
well-documented complaint with the FCC. I explained that I had made
strong personal effort to cooperate and assist the CATV company. Although
some lessening of the interference level did occur for a short while, sadly
enough it soon returned at full strength.
Shortly after filing my official complaint, I had an official FCC Enforcement
Bureau investigation team from the FCC field office in Tampa, Florida in my
home in mid-March of 2007 with their sophisticated test equipment and they
saw for themselves what I have been talking about. I won’t go into a lot of
detail but they made several visits, set up temporary towers and antennas to
locate the source in addition to extensive drive testing in the area.
The end result is anybody’s guess. They most likely will say that they could not
locate or detect any problem interference for what I perceive to be obvious
reasons and declare it legal. Yet they saw the problem on their test
equipment in my home and I witnessed it. By the way, my home and any
equipment, systems or whatever was cleared as an emission source.
No further action that I am aware of was taken by the FCC or the CATV
company. I never received any kind of an FCC report. It was however
suggested by an FCC official that I go to another amateur band.
Additionally, I also notified all the top officials of the ARRL repeatedly and
also explained the event at our local amateur club in the presence of our
section leader and displayed samples of visual and audible proof. As far as
the CATV company was concerned their system was not causing my
interference and their investigation was completed.
I have had no response to my continuing to email current proof of the
ongoing interference documentation to the FCC, all the ARRL officials and a
field technician for the CATV company who in himself is also a local radio
amateur. I generally sent current documentation every couple of weeks.
Since my last emails of continued interference documentation to
enforcement and ARRL officials were returned to me as un-delivered,
indicated a very important message to me personally indeed. Now totally
disgusted, very bitter and I am giving up my futile attempts.
A very sad part of this event is that there were several other amateurs
experiencing the same problems, one of which also filed an official
complaint with the FCC. To the best of my knowledge, he never was
contacted about his complaint by the FCC.
My attempts to get all those other affected amateurs together for mutual
support and go to the FCC, the ARRL officials and the CATV company failed
and I was left alone to battle this problem. Their feeling was that no one will
care to help, you can’t fight city hall, you can’t win against big business and
all the other excuses of futility... most sad of all as it may be, some just didn’t
care! What they are doing about the interference problems now I have no
idea. At least I had the intestinal fortitude to try even if it was alone. Mutual
support from the local amateur community turned out to be a total failure.
Today, for the 15th month in a row, I am still off the air as the interference is
still there stronger than ever. Any amateur can drive around anywhere in
Indian River County, Florida, with a two meter rig tuned to 145.250 MHz and
detect the interference for themselves. Why I ask? Because nobody cares.
To put an end to this story, I am in the process of selling my amateur
equipment. I have resigned from ARES and from being the technical officer
and participating in emergency functions as I have done over the years. I
hate to think of how many hours I have put in not only preparing for
hurricane emergencies but providing emergency communications for our
local hospital many times over. I have also contributed many personal hours
to improving emergency amateur communications systems in our county for
our citizens.
As for the past 15 months, I have had my ability to operate on frequencies
that I have FCC licensed rights to do so taken away from me by one of the
largest CATV companies and as the story title says "No One Cares Unless It’s
Them." I ask myself why, why must this happen? Because no one cares.
I just don’t know what else to say other than to remind all amateurs that if you
stand alone you will lose but if you stand together you will at least have a
chance to win. My situation should be a fair example of what happens to the
individual if he seeks support from those that are supposed to protect his
FCC licensed rights. Simply put, "No One Cares Unless It’s Them."
73 to all.
John E. Conefrey W4IVW Vero Beach, Florida
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N3HKN on April 14, 2008
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The cost of the "fix" was probably high and the cable company convinced the FCC that the ratio of complaints to cost were not reasonable. The deadly "cost benefit calculation".
The only way you get any attention in this case is to see if a Public Service (fire, police, municipality) has interference and band with them.
Dick N3HKN
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W8JI on April 14, 2008
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Problems occur even on 160 meters and other bands, and the FCC is sluggish to deal with problems.
For example a NDB beacon broadcasting just above the 160 meter band from northern South America was trashing 3504, 7008, and every harmonic up to ten meters. This went on for months and months. It is finally resolved now.
Within the past several months WRJS AM east of me had a spurious signal that trashed 160 meters. They also operated far above legal power at night. They fixed the problem, they even started following the power rules after dark, but it was rough getting it done.
The reason for all of this is the pro-business attitude of the present administration. It isn't that FCC employees weren't interested, it's just that they are understaffed and restricted from the top. The FCC has funding restrictions and lacks manpower to enforce rules. The FCC priority as dictated from the top is different.
This is all part of how we decided we wanted the USA to do business. We wanted a pro-business cut budget Government that takes a hands-off approach. We want or tolerate business lobbying. We don't like regulation and rules. This is what we get.
73 Tom
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W4LGH on April 14, 2008
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Interesting story, although somewhat un-believable!
The first thing is if other Hams in the area were affected, they would surely get involved to help stop it. 2nd, if the FCC came to your location and ran these tests, and deemed it to be from the cable company, as lazy as the FCC has become, they would have taken legal action to correct this issue, and you would have been copied on legal action taken. And 3rd, as much as I hate Cable Companies, once proven to them that it was their problem, they were more than willing to try and correct it. Now trying to convince them it WAS their problem, that takes some doings, as Cable companies can DO NO wrong. You can ead a horse to water, but you can not make him drink, however you can DROWN him!
Now as for ARES/ARRL helping, thats a complete waste of time. The ARRL only cares about its exec members and only needs your dues to pay their salaries, so they will act concerned, use their double talk to convince you they care, but will do nothing except beg you for more money! This is why I dropped out of the ARRL 2 years ago, and haven't missed it!
So I am NOT saying that you don't have this problem, and these events didn't take place, but you did fail is the convencing dept. There is also much Ham life above and below 2meters, HF is a lot more fun and you don't have to worry about the code anymore.
Sorry to see you go, but if you feel this is the only answer to your problems, then Ham radio probably wasn't meant for you.
Good luck and 73,
de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W8ATA on April 14, 2008
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John, my ham friend who I have never met or talked with on the air, please don't give up. Don't sell the equipment or take the antennas down. Your article doesn't carry the tone of a whiner, but of one who is frustrated and fed up with the situation at hand. And maybe, just maybe your article will motivate others to join you in your quest to get the problem solved. Our whole country with all its faults is still the greatest place on earth. It wasn't built by quiting, but by perseverance. None of us would be in this great country today if others had folded their tent. Your service in ARES and other endeavors is appreciated. Perhaps there is more service for you to do that you don't realize.
I have a hunch I'll be back in these comments you will receive. In the meantime don't quit, and don't try to do it on your own.
73 and best to you,
Russ
W8ATA
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KF4HR on April 14, 2008
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Just curious John. Is the interference that you're experiencing on 145.25mhz (bandwidth and harmonics) covering the entire VHF and UHF bands, at that interference level? Or is the interference just on the frequency you mentioned?
Based on your local communications with other hams, how many others are experiencing the interference? Are repeater groups complaining as well? And how wide spread is the interference? Just your city block, general area? Entire town? Assuming there are several amateurs being negatively effected, there are power in numbers.
It sounds they have a leaky connection somewhere. Have you tried to locate the exact location of the leak yourself? A 2 meter HT and an attention box just might be all you need.
And finally, assuming the worse case and nothing can be done, rather than throwing in the towel on your license, have you considered upgrading your license and using the lower frequency bands?
KF4HR
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KD5SFK on April 14, 2008
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John,
I find it very sad that you're using this situation as an excuse to get out of ham radio. It seems to me that you still have a lot of alternatives....
1. The FCC is a governmental agency. Have you ever known a governmental agency to do things in a timely manner? Give them time and they may come through yet.
2. If you are a member of the ARRL, you can contact them for assistance. You didn't mention in your article that you had contacted the ARRL.
3. While such strong interference will certainly put a damper on weak signal VHF work, it shouldn't interfere as badly with FM signals, especially repeater signals and local simplex signals. Do you not also use these modes? You mentioned that you resigned from ARES...I can't imagine that your local ARES group doesn't use FM repeaters and/or simplex that you should be able to receive without a problem.
4. If you want to operate in VHF contests or do other weak signal work, try mobile/rover operating. Mobile/rover contesting can be very fun, and you can repeat contacts from each grid-square in which you operate. I have also found, especially on 6 meters, that the other operators usually get excited about contacting a mobile, and will put forth extra effort to pull out your signal when they hear you.
5. I see from QRZ.com that you are hold a technician license. Have you ever considered upgrading? It is easier now than it has ever been, especially with no code requirement. I know you mentioned that others have suggested that you use other bands, but if you think VHF weak signal contesting is fun, you should really try HF DXing.
I'll be the first to admit that it can sometimes be difficult to operate on the ham bands. While I have never personally been subject to interference of the kind you describe, I have had to deal with antenna restrictions. My biggest obstacle is usually just having the time to get on the radio. But I don't give up and sell my equipment just because I don't have much time to operate. Getting on the air, no matter how infrequently, is still fun for me.
Just my $0.02....
KD5SFK
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N2EY on April 14, 2008
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A few points:
- FCC is complaint-driven. That means you, and all other amateurs affected, have to complain and keep complaining. If the complaints go away, they can assume that either the problem was solved or you're not pursuing it.
- TV of all sorts is undergoing major changes that will continue for the next couple of years at least. Here in PA, the latest thing is fiber-optic right to your house for TV, telephone and internet. In 2009, the NTSC stations will go off the air.
W8JI writes: "FCC is sluggish to deal with problems...."
"The reason for all of this is the pro-business attitude of the present administration. It isn't that FCC employees weren't interested, it's just that they are understaffed and restricted from the top. The FCC has funding restrictions and lacks manpower to enforce rules. The FCC priority as dictated from the top is different.
This is all part of how we decided we wanted the USA to do business. We wanted a pro-business cut budget Government that takes a hands-off approach. We want or tolerate business lobbying. We don't like regulation and rules. This is what we get."
That's *EXACTLY* the problem. W8JI nailed it; his words deserve to be repeated again and again.
Except it isn't just the present administration; the attitude goes all the way back to the Reagan Administration. Not just less regulation but less enforcement, and that enforcement focused on content rather than technical aspects.
73 de Jim, N2EY
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W8JJI on April 14, 2008
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Sounds like a loose conection (s) in the cable company's equipment in your area.
Get a small handheld receiver with a signal strength meter that can RX those frequencies you mentioned and a hand held yagi with at least 5 elements (for better directivity ), get out there and do some fox-hunting if you can.
I had a similar interference problem and it tuned out to be a bad 75 ohm cable coax connecter at a junction box a few houses down from me.
The cable guy cut off the old end and installed a new one.
Don't give up, this should be fixable.
Also check for interference here,,, ansewring machines, computers and computer monitors, cell phone battery chargers, ionic type air filters, tv's that are plugged in, cordless phones, DVR boxes, cable boxes (unplug them). Did you connect a battery charging device to your ham radio power supply? Anything with a switching type power supply? (throw it in the trash). Ozone Generators! DSL boxes !!!...
Have you spoke with your neighbors?
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W2DAB on April 14, 2008
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I am sorry to hear of your disgust and am saddened to hear you might throw in the towel.
It seems that the last correspondence you had with the FCC was their visit to your home.
If there is one thing about government, they hate paper floating around that has been unresolved. I would just keep sending your documentation to every higher supervisor than the last. Just keep mailing copies out, you might be closer than you think to having some action.
Somewhere, someone just wanted it to quietly go away. Eventually you will create enough paper that they will want you to stop.
Try this experiment before you quit, zerox your documents and a polite cover letter stating the unresolved issue and mail them out at a regular rate of one per month, it's not a huge expense and you will eventually hear something. Email me and I will send you the stamps.
73
David
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N3OX on April 14, 2008
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"John, my ham friend who I have never met or talked with on the air, please don't give up. Don't sell the equipment or take the antennas down."
While I agree with your spirit, I can understand John's frustration. Here in the suburbs of DC a new interferer crops up or gets worse every couple of months. None of them so far have been so bad as to take me off the air, because I've taken steps to make my antennas relatively clean-patterned and free of noise conducted in on cable and power lines.
But I've got lots and lots and lots of noise. I've got powerline noise that never really seems to be abated despite the excellent efforts of K3RFI and his locating equipment. The problem is that Pepco is busy and probably pretty much every piece of pole hardware in my neighborhood needs to be replaced, so there's never a big dent put in that.
I've got random birdies everywhere from consumer junk. Companies that make computers and TV's don't care about the RF spectrum.
I've got an apartment building 800 feet away that's capable of raising my noise floor on several bands between 10 and 30dB with what I suspect are it's variable frequency drive elevators.
If this were my permanent home (fortunately it's not) I might consider trying to take some aggressive action, but so far all I've done is to call the power company periodically because I know they're good about it and will eventually take some action.
But it's frustrating. If I wanted really good DXing conditions here, I'd have to make interference mitigation my hobby. I'd have to go around to all of my neighbors and explain how I would like them to wind all of their equipment cords around little donuts so that I could better use my backyard full of bizarre antennas; I'd have to go to the apartment management, fight my way over several months up to someone with some authority and let them know that I was having major radio difficulties from 800 feet away and how they needed to spend $10,000 to have their elevator drives rewired. Then that person would chuckle, ignore me for six months, and I'd have to get the FCC involved, and it would take years.
Fortunately, I'm not here for years. Fortunately I've found technical solutions to a few of my problems. But it's not fun to fight the sea of carelessly generated noise out there, and I can understand the temptation to hang it up instead of pursuing a hobby of tracking down interference and having protracted fruitless contact with large companies and the FCC.
So John, I hate to see you give it up too, but I see where you're coming from.
73,
Dan
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by AI4WC on April 14, 2008
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Very interesting. A quick Google search revealed that channel 18 is allocated 145.250 mhz (see http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/cablech.html). The question is, is it legal? I would start the investigation here. It appears to be the properly allocated frequency; legal or not? I have no idea.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N3OX on April 14, 2008
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"Also check for interference here,,, ansewring machines, computers and computer monitors, cell phone battery chargers, ionic type air filters, tv's that are plugged in, cordless phones, DVR boxes, cable boxes (unplug them). Did you connect a battery charging device to your ham radio power supply? Anything with a switching type power supply? (throw it in the trash). Ozone Generators! DSL boxes !!!...
"
In other words, spend all your free time finding all the crap that manufacturers decided to save a few pennies on by leaving the EMI filter off the switching power supply.
I found all mine. Now off to the neighbors' houses to bother them for weeks because I can't hear anything on my big ugly antenna.
;-)
Dan
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by K1CJS on April 14, 2008
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I have to agree with Tom, W8JI. Big business has taken over government--and we let them do it. Now, big business has the ear and the vote of too many congressmen. As a result, the little guy suffers, the company that rather put money in their pocket than use it to repair their decaying infrastructure prospers obscenely, and the government agencies that oversee those companies overlook the interference issues which are violating the regulations. You don't believe it? Look at big oil--the same general thing is happening there, obscene profits and the little guy is paying thourgh the nose for his gas. And the government is just sitting back and letting it happen.
About the only thing that can be done is at the city/town level, when the contract of the cable company comes up for renewal. Its about the only time the cable company is even the least bit vulnerable. If the local ham population can get together at that time and flood the hearing room with their complaints, maybe something can be done. They'll be hitting the cable company in the pocketbook then--about the only place where they'll pay attention when they're hit.
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N0AH on April 14, 2008
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John,
Can you post the names and phone numbers of those in the CATV company you have deal't with?
Don't turn in your ticket- It is a permanant solution to a temporaty problem-
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W9PMZ on April 14, 2008
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"big business" and "cut budget governement"
1. Did you ever hear of the governement spending less? Govenrments generally fight over how much to increase spending.....
2. Big business and obscene profits??? While on the surface I generally agree; but the fact of the matter is that more government intervenation almost always means more cost to the consumer. Perhaps the oil companies are making a lot of money, but they are public compaines and are the profits paid to stockholders? But there are other business ventures making far more, percentage wise, in excess of the oil companies. Where is the indignation here???
But back to the original post, if the cable is so leaky, what leaks out can leak back in? Maybe a 1.5KW repeter on 145.25MHz could help a little.
73,
Carl - W9PMZ
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by WV4I on April 14, 2008
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145.25 is unusable in many areas likely due to CATV RFI. In my community, everything nearby is underground, uncluding cable, but have a dead carrier centered on 145.25, and that's with an HT and a stubby antenna. I doubt this is news to the FCC. Imagine this interference on 2m with a high gain receiver and a beam antenna. Don't know re John's case, but moving to HF, other bands, with bigger antennas required, and outside perhaps, is not always an option due HOAs, physical lot size, etc.. And on HF, I've finally gone to relatively low horizontal wire except for contests/dx work, due far less manmade noise to cope with. Let's at least hope that BPL continues to die a natural death. But we will still have ignition noise, military radars, electrolytic devices, touch switches, inverters, the list is endless.
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by K8SOR on April 14, 2008
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John,
I once had terrible power lone noise. The person that tracked the interference for the power co was a ham and a friend. I was plagued with this noise for over a year, kept getting the runaround. I finally gound the 3 magic words " PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION " Boy,I just mentioned the PSC and things started happening. In about a week, my noise level went from +20 db over s9 to about s3. If the catv is regulated by the PSC, give them a call. Another solution, get yourself a legal limit amp for 2 meters and find someone close enough to hear or use crossband, if you can hear the ch-18, it will hear you---You are licensed to xmit on 145 mhz, the catv is not. If you interfere with them enough, they will fix their problem. Good luck, 73 Skip
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by K0BG on April 14, 2008
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Once upon a time, I used a 160 watt amp in my car. It worked just fine on 145.25 MHz. After complaining about cable RFI without anyone responding, I drove around until I heard the signal the loudest; about S9. A few well placed transmissions over the next few days garnered results. As was stated above, what comes out, can also go in!
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N8IK on April 14, 2008
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AI4WC - yes it's legal as long as it remains a "closed system". Once the leaked emissions exceed a certain power level then it's a problem.
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W3JXP on April 14, 2008
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Well guys, this is what you get when you vote in a big business friendly government.
If you voted for it, don't bitch about it.
John
W3JXP
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W5ESE on April 14, 2008
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You didn't mention whether you are a league member
or not.
If you're not, it's wrong of you to expect their
help.
Scott
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KE7FD on April 14, 2008
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John, you need my post like you need more static, but here goes anyway. I am pleased that most of the posts have been sympathetic to your plight. I especially like K8SOR's approach to the problem as well as going to the public works commission. It also sounds like you've been going this alone for the most part. I hope some of the fellow hams you rub shoulders with there will read this thread and will collectively bring a greater wieght down on the powers that be to help get this problem resolved.
You are needed in the ham community. Don't let the bully on the block get away with this.
I should also ask: What can we who are posting to this thread do to help you?
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W6TH on April 14, 2008
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.
Big money is power and authority. Power to direct and exact performance from others. It includes the right to prescribe the means and methods by which work will be done. However, the authority to direct is only as good as one individual's willingness to accept direction from another.
Does this mean that Big Business has the Power and Authority over our FCC,Government?
Sure does if the Big Business is the Government.
W6TH
.:
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by WMCO on April 14, 2008
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So people say its unbelievable? Ha I had a similar story where the issue dragged on for 3 years, it involved heavy power line noise not only to ham equipment but also to over the air TV reception...but it NEVER got fixed in the 3 years I lived there, finally I had it and moved..its still not fixed..the cost was too high, the line could not been shut down to fix the loose connections because it was feeding several oil fields blah blah blah..there was NO help just lip service from any of the people at the FCC, and the ARRL. The interference is so strong that any VHF TV reception for miles is impossible and it even extended into UHF at some places...because there are only about 20 people effected and not 100000 voters and subscriptions the cost is to high to address the problem and the FCC lets them get away with it. The FCC and ARRL are not here for the little people but solely for big business.
John
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by AD4U on April 14, 2008
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If the CATV channel 18 signal leaks out on 145.250, then your legal two meter signal can leak into their system and cause a lot of interference on CATV channel 18. The decision by the FCC to allow CATV to use the HAM two meter band ranks right up there with them giving the old 11 meter HAM band to the CB'ers for LOCAL communications. If all else fails, do a lot of transmitting on 145.250. When all the CATV users start complaining that they cannot watch channel 18, something will be done to correct the leakage problem. It worked here.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by AD5TD on April 14, 2008
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"What kind of equipment are you selling?"
Go back under your rock.
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by WA3SKN on April 14, 2008
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If the FCC won't resolve this in a timely fashion, get your Congressman involved!
-Mike.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by WA7NCL on April 14, 2008
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Look at the other side of it.
Why should a multi trillion dollar economy, a 3 trillion dollar government and a nation of 300 million people really care about 300,000 grumpy old men who play with radios as a hobby?
Read the article. Note the adversarial tone. Sense the tones of entitlement and victimhood.
Read the replies from the cynical, grumpy ehamers.
You all are shocked that politics = money = power?
Ham radio is a minority. We need to work with the system, infuence people positively and show the rest of the world we are worthy of some consideration.
In my 38 years of hamming, I still marvel that we exist at all, given the value of the resource (RF spectrum) that we are using. It's a tribute to all those who have worked to convince the public that we are worthy of it.
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by K3RMX on April 14, 2008
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If you have not already done so, complain to the state public service commission (or whatever Florida calls that agency) and to the county cable TV commission. Also complain to the local commissioners, councilmen, whoever has to be elected to office. Contact your US representative, and try to get him/her to contact the FCC on your behalf. (The FCC knows who approves and funds its budget.)
If you know anyone at the local newspaper or TV or radio station, see if you can get some publicity about your problem, stressing the public service/emergency communication angle.
Like the others have said, don't give up yet.
Steve
k3rmx
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by WB3ERE on April 14, 2008
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I like Alan's idea, get the biggest mobile amp that you can beg, borrow or have and go sit under a leaky connection. Fire it up DURING PRIME TIME continue that for as long as it takes, get a few of the others that have the problem to do the same.
You are authorized to transmit on that frequency and hence are doing nothing wrong. If you get enough complaints going into the cable co concerning some guy talking on channel 18 and interferring with customers viewing pleasure, you'll soon see results.
goodluck
Ed
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by K3WACKY on April 14, 2008
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I agree...use the big amp at 145.25mhz
Also 3KV on the cable line works too (if it's not fiber)
If no one has a powerful 2M mobile amp you can borrow, maybe someone has a plate transformer you can use
:)
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N2UGB on April 14, 2008
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HF, VHF, UHF...it is noisy and getting noisier. I, frankly, see no way out of this dilemma. The garbage electronics sold at your favorite outlet stores are also major contributors...and they aren't going away, ever.
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KD6ANF on April 14, 2008
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John, as others have mentioned, do not give up! This appears to be a very simple problem which is being ignored by the cable provider in your area.
I completely agree with Alan, K0GB, what goes out also goes in!
While residing in Pleasanton, CA in the early nineties, I used to listen to a repeater in the Sacramento area also on 145.25 and experienced this exact same type of signal interference.
I was just getting into packet operation during these early years in amateur radio and in conversation with the senior engineer at the cable company, reminded him that their system was leaking and there is the possibility of receiving unwanted signals from "legal" transmissions within the two-meter amateur band. It was mentioned that 1500 watts in a digital mode in close proximity to a location which has a leak could cause considerable unwanted effects to an "unmaintained" system such as theirs.
After much "brow beating" this engineer agreed to send a technical representative out to investigate the situation. Their technician responded to my residence and found no interfering signal. At this time he was then reminded that the interference was not at my residence but some distance away.
After their technician GAVE UP, it was decided to just go out and locate the interfering signal on my own. Once the interference was located the cable company was informed the problem quickly and completely disappeared, well, until years later when I relocated somewhere else within the valley, then the process was once again performed.
Perhaps 145.250 could be used as a HIGH POWER PACKET TESTING frequency, this would of course need to be a coordinated effort.
george potter KD6ANF
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W5GNB on April 14, 2008
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If it were me in this situation, the LAST thing I would do is to give up!
I would at least be on the telephone EVERY DAY to both the Cable complany and the FCC bitching loudly about my situation until someone at either location got tired enough of hearing from me that something would be done to my satisfacton.
Remember that the FCC works for the PUBLIC, not the government. I would make sure that they are doing thier job or I would insure that some point in my quest that Heads would roll if thier own interference rules were not enforced.
Good luck!
Gary - W5GNB
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by KI4SYR on April 14, 2008
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Must I be the first to post this?
part 97.101: (d) No amateur operator shall willfully or maliciously interfere with or cause interference to any radio communication or signal.
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by NB1U on April 14, 2008
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You might try writing a letter stating your problem and mail it to your state representative and senator. Follow it up with a phone call. They have staffs that handle constituent problems and complaints. Contacting your local P.U.C. is a good idea.
Firing up with a kilowatt on 2 meters might make a person feel better, but when the microphone button is released you'll still have that nasty carrier to contend with...
73, Mark NB1U
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by N0AH on April 14, 2008
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So my equinox article fell out, I thought it was interesting.........I guess I should just turn in my ticket!!
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by AD5TD on April 14, 2008
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<<<by KI4SYR on April 14, 2008
Must I be the first to post this?
part 97.101: (d) No amateur operator shall willfully or maliciously interfere with or cause interference to any radio communication or signal.>>>
Must I be the first to point out that CABLE is NOT a "RADIO COMMUNICATIONS SIGNAL"? It's a "Closed System" NOT broadcast over the air.
From the ARRL website:
http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/catvi/index.html
THE RADIO TRANSMITTING STATION AND OPERATOR
Because a cable system is (in theory) a closed system, it really shouldn't matter if the radio station is transmitting harmonics or other out-of-band spurious emissions; the cable system is not supposed to respond to any over-the-air signals. However, it is helpful if the radio station can be demonstrated to be "clean," especially if the interference is only on channels harmonically related to the transmitted fundamental frequencies. If the station is not causing interference to an antenna-connected TV set located on the premises (often at home), this usually indicates that the transmitter is not transmitting any interfering out-of-band signals.
"The transmitter operator is responsible for the proper operation of the radio station. If the transmitting equipment is emitting out-of-band signals, the operator must take the necessary steps to ensure that the station is in compliance with FCC regulations. The operator also should cooperate with the subscriber and cable company repair staff to find a resolution to the problem. It may be necessary for the operator to participate in the tests to help them find and correct the fault. The cable company's repair crew will work in close cooperation with the radio transmitter operator.
The subscriber should extend the same cooperation. An interference problem can only be corrected at its source. If, for example, interference is due to leakage in the wiring located in the subscriber's home or in the subscriber's TV receiver, asking the transmitter operator to correct the problem by making changes to the radio station will not result in a cure. The cable company's repair crew may need access to a subscriber's home or want to try some interference filters on the input cable to the subscriber's TV receiver or VCR. The subscriber should help in every reasonable way possible.
The cable company must ensure that the cable system is in proper working order. Beyond that, most cable operators are willing to help a customer resolve a problem concerning the quality of the received service. It is costly to leave an interference problem unresolved. Dissatisfied viewers can cancel their subscriptions and, if the interference problem is caused by a cable system leak, the FCC can levy fines or shut down channels."
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by N2VPC on April 14, 2008
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In the old days when CATV was only analog the cable companies would do everything to shield their signals so no one could get illegal cable by simply aiming a broadband directional antenna towards a pole. With digital CATV and the increased use of encryption they really don't care. So up goes cheap lossy cable, junk fittings with higher-gain BDAs to compensate for the heavy insertion losses. Poor grounding techniques in south Florida's sandy soil doesn't help either. The location of the emissions cannot be identified because it's coming from their ENTIRE system -- that means replacing everything within at least a couple miles of your QTH. That's not going to happen.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by DROLLTROLL on April 14, 2008
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Perhaps a week long fox hunt with the fox transmitter being placed close to the offending line amp.....
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KD5SFK on April 14, 2008
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"In my 38 years of hamming, I still marvel that we exist at all, given the value of the resource (RF spectrum) that we are using."
As soon as just one cell phone or internet provider decides they need some of our spectrum, we can kiss it goodbye.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N0NS on April 14, 2008
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I agree fully with contacting your Senator... My wife worked as an aid to our Senator here in Iowa. When she would call a federal department on behalf of Senator Grassley, she was treated like royalty and problems were resolved pretty quickly.
Good luck to you!
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W4KVW on April 14, 2008
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Just so you know,"you CAN fight BIG BUSINESS & "WIN"! It took about 2 years but I did "WIN" against one of the largest car companies in AMERICA.When they realized I was NOT giving up they decided they would give up & our dates in Federal Court were cancelled & I no longer drive their brand of vehicle(DODGE thanks them about every 3 years).I knew I was right & they were wrong & it was worth the fight & I'd do it again no matter how BIG the company!YOU must decide from the start if it's worth your MONEY & EFFORT & know you could still lose BUT you could still WIN as well!
They want you to give up & go away so don't give them what they want!
Clayton
W4KVW
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by WA8MEA on April 14, 2008
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Perhaps 145.250 could be used as a HIGH POWER PACKET TESTING frequency....
-------------------------------------------------------
I think the common consensus is to go mobile with a big amp and call CQ for hours on end right on 145.250.
Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire extinguishers....
;-)
73, Bill
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KD5JZN on April 14, 2008
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John , hang in there. Like several others have stated: keep up the paper trail to the FCC. If you keep the paper trail going someone will eventually notice.
Now for one comment that I just LOVED : You didn't mention whether you are a league member
or not.
If you're not, it's wrong of you to expect their
help.
And I thought that the League was there to help continue the service,I guess that they only care about the rights of paying members.
So the rest of us are on our own , whats new?
kd5jzn
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N4KC on April 14, 2008
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. Cable companies operate on franchises granted by local government entities--city or county, typically. Complain to your city council or county commission, but do it in a reasoned, constructive way, with well-thought-out data to back it up. Be sure to mention your affiliation with emergency preparedness groups. And let them know the FCC and the cable company both admitted there was a problem.
I think you'll get much more response from someone local.
Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.n4kc.blogspot.com
(A blog dedicated to rapid technological change and its
effect on life, society, and ham radio)
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by WB1FPA on April 14, 2008
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John,
I am surprised that no one has mentioned asking local pilots if they have interference in the 108-135 MHz frequency range. This would be cable channel ranges as well and the FCC has a long history of coming down hard on CATV leakage in the air-band. Try it, who knows , maybe it can help you get some action.
Tom Howey WB1FPA
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by WA1RNE on April 14, 2008
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"I also mentioned that I was also heavily involved in ARES emergency communications in our county and that I was out of service. I also notified the CATV company corporate office as well."
>>>> John, you may have another tactic at your disposal.
I understand that Vero Beach is in Indian River County. The Indian River County Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan (CEMP) states that RACES and ARES stations can provide communications during declared emergencies.
1) From the Board of County Commissioners web page under Emergency Services:
http://www.irces.com/Index.htm
EOC
The new County Emergency Operations Center (EOC) located at 4225 43rd Ave is now open.
>> Have you checked to see if the amateur equipment in the County EOC impacted by the same or similar level of interference?
2) Since RACES/ARES operations can include MOBILE stations, the County RACES/ARES communications may be severely impacted, since a mobile station's antenna can be much closer to the CATV lines and distribution equipment.
If the above is true, and you can obtain the support of the Emergency Management Director, you may get a significantly better response by having the County Emergency Management Division file a complaint with Comcast, the FCC and any other applicable state agencies.
Also, local radio, TV stations and CATV providers like COMCAST are closely linked to Emergency Management via the Emergency Alert System (EAS) and obviously need to cooperate with one another.
...WA1RNE
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by G0GQK on April 14, 2008
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Unfortunately what you write is true, nobody cares until it happens to them. For those who suggest there are other parts of the ham radio hobby he could turn to, the problem is that when you've experienced this kind of trouble you become completely pissed off.
Perhaps there aren't any other amateurs in the area who are affected and as someone suggested the TV system is for thousands and this ham radio operator is just a pain in the ass as far as the TV company is concerned.
It happens everywhere, people and company's do things and have absolutely no interest if it upsets people. Case last week, a landowner in England decided he wasn't going to provide water for the people who live on his estate, about 14 houses. He sank a well for his own use, cut off the water to the houses saying it costs too much for me to provide you with water, even though they pay for it, and it will cost each of them about $14,000 in US to have a connection to the national water supply.
We're moving back to the 15th century, lords and serfs, companies and government being the lords, and everybody else being the serfs.
G0GQK
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by N9TA on April 14, 2008
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I'm kind of surprised you'd let this drive you out of ham radio. There are SO MANY different things you can get into in ham radio. Why not use the time to upgrade, and try some HF modes. This problem will go away in a few years as whatever is messing up will finally BLOW up.
If all else fails...MOVE! That's exactly what I did when I found myself in a radio unfriendly area. You do NOT have to live in exactly THAT place. I am thrilled to tears that I moved....now I have a WAY nicer home with 4 acres of REAL TALL trees for wire antennas.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W8JI on April 14, 2008
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Let me say again, the problem is the FCC field people have had their hands tied. The FCC no longer works for the public. They are understaffed at the field level.
There also is a policy set by our administration that they cater to business interests first.
This is what people wanted. They wanted less government, less rules, and this is what we got.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at BPL decisions, or to look at how the FCC ignores sound technical data and how the present administration pushed the NTIA to change it's outlook on BPL.
Our Government now works for those who pay money, not the people. This is why things aren't the way they used to be.
With enough pushing the FCC will do something about the cable problem, but it will take constant pressure. It probably won't be fast.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N3OX on April 14, 2008
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"You do NOT have to live in exactly THAT place. I am thrilled to tears that I moved....now I have a WAY nicer home with 4 acres of REAL TALL trees for wire antennas."
You going to move when your neighbors all get their economic stimulus packages, and like good patriotic Americans, give China's economy the shot in the arm it needs by purchasing cheap Plasma TVs?
;-)
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by WD8DK on April 14, 2008
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sounds like the FCC was bought by the cable company. Sad to say, but this is a common thing with governmental branches....
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KF7CG on April 14, 2008
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A way to make this work is to mention that a TV antenna can pickup this leakage and anyone can get the unscrambled cable channels for free.
It isn't illeagal either.
Loss of revenue is a good hammer.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N8UZE on April 14, 2008
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If cable is leaking out, then your signal will leak in. Buy a full legal limit amplifier and run it. If the get enough consumer complaints, they will fix the leakage.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by RADIOROY on April 14, 2008
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Well its big brother all over again. Piddling all over the little guy. But they are not always the winner. A Ham in Lubbock ,TX. took on the local power company, and ended up winning, and the FCC came in and sighted several radio and tv stations for spurious signals being fed back into the grid. Persevere, and you will win in the end. I as one other poster said, fought a big 3 auto maker, and with the threat of national exposure on tv and radio, got the results that I wanted. Hang tough and get some local hams involved. It is their fight too! 73 es good luck de W5ROY
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by KE4DRN on April 14, 2008
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hi,
how about a beacon station and see if it leaks
into the catv system ?
again, not to run big power, just normal
operations here, per the rules.
hang in there, btw, try to email Riley at FCC,
perhaps he can get things moving faster.
rholling@fcc.gov
73 james
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by KA1FWW on April 14, 2008
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Sorry to hear about this boondogle. I'd look only in ONE direction for help.. that's the FAA .. The cable egress is near enough to aviation comms frequencies to be a an extreme life threatening hazard. Contact the airport in the area, contact pilots of any type you can reach. Solicit their help. The ONE opponent CATV truly fears is the FAA. This is a serious suggestion and the direction I would take. Best Wishes in your fight and remember to throw a log on that fire occasionally but don't forget to fan it in between.. fan it and fuel it, fan it and fuel it. Don't let it go out.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by K8TN on April 14, 2008
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Yep, I had the same problem years ago when I ran the DX packet cluster in my area in upstate South Carolina. I was ruining 3 2mtr packet freqs on 2mtr and 2 on 220 as the backbone. I had several people in my neighborhood complain that the 2mtr packet was interfering with channel 18, which just so happens to be ESPN!
Fighting fire w fire, I simply told them the problem is with the cable company and complain to them, not me, but I also told them if they contacted the cable company, to let them know I was willing to 'help' find THEIR problem.
Sure enuf, a Charter cable supervisor finally paid me a visit. I had already made up an 'RF sniffer' and took him directly to the 'offending locations' (2 of them)
They fixed it.
There's nothing like pointing a high-gain 8-ele quad right at the leak with a 200 watt amp driving 2 meter packet 24/7.
Who said a little power can get good results. ;>)
Dave
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by K9ARM on April 14, 2008
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As one who spent 30 years in the cable industry (but no longer), here are my comments:
1. Cable companies are required to maintain leakage standards and constant monitoring. See FCC Part 76.
2. I believe John is dealing with a very major leak due to the amount of spectrum it's affecting, probably in the main line which is usually obvious and relatively easy to find. It could be a radial crack in the main line cable, a loose main line connector, or corrosion. How old is the cable system? It could also be a minor leak, but very close to his station. Sometimes people do their own house wiring and a poor job.
3. Since most, if not all, cable companies provide internet access using 2-way plant, it's in their best interest to find and repair any leaks, especially major ones. It affects their data throughput and interference to video channels. By the way, the return path is in the HF spectrum, but set up to avoid commonly used frequencies, including the ham bands.
4. John, I believe you may have already given up, but based on the company's response, I suggest going over the heads of the local contacts, call the corporate offices and find the engineer in charge that can help you. Keep pushing! Also, try ARRL legal counsel, Chris Imlay W3KD, I had discussions with him about cable system leakage years ago at hamfests. He should be able to help or direct you to who can.
5. I repaired numerous cable leaks in old systems for many years. The majority of problems are caused by F connectors on drop cables, every company these days are using much higher quality connectors and better installation practices. Most of the cable plant in the country has been replaced or rebuilt, smaller sections of plant are now fed by fiber nodes - HFC, hybrid fiber coax. There can still be problems with the mainline coax caused by pole damage, trees, fallen power lines, poor construction, etc.
6. I passed on your article to three friends with technical expertise and contacts in the cable industry, hoping they can get you some attention. There are numerous hams working in the business. It's always been my attitude that anything can be fixed, given the time and the money. Most cable companies, and power companies for that matter, have trimmed their staffs and budgets, but there's no reason or excuse for not repairing a major leakage problem. It's not that difficult.
Andy K9ARM
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KV9U on April 14, 2008
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True Story a couple decades ago:
I received a call from a distraught TV viewer. He could not watch a favorite channel and someone had given him my name since they knew I was a ham. He told me that he kept hearing this guy calling people, but they never answered. I asked him what he was saying and he said it was with morse code, but not very fast. And he only sent his call letters, that was all.
I asked him if he could copy any of it, and he said he was an intercept operator in the military and he named the call letters. Of course it was immediately apparent that he was hearing a repeater several miles away!
It turned out that the apartment complex was wired years earlier and in an improper manner at one of the distribution points. Many waterlogged connectors, etc.
Problem solved.
Years later a neighbor a few doors down came to me about hearing my signal interfering his favorite TV channel. Went to his home a few 100 feet away and discovered that he had sliced into his cable feed with his lawn mower and almost severed the coax shield over several inches. Needless to say, easy fix from the cable company the next day.
The point is that if you transmit where there is severe leakage, they are also going to receive severe interference. In the last case, a couple watts on an HT caused total whiteout on his set.
I suppose the problem now is that cable companies use digital streams and may not be affected as much by our analog signals?
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by KF7CR on April 14, 2008
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The reply by Tom, W8JI hits the nail on the head; hams are being sacrificed to corporate interests.
As maddening as bureaucrats are, they usually played fair ball. As the industry has taken control of the FCC appointees this is an expected outcome.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by QRZDXR2 on April 15, 2008
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K0BG
Once upon a time, I used a 160 watt amp in my car. It worked just fine on 145.25 MHz. After complaining about cable RFI without anyone responding, I drove around until I heard the signal the loudest; about S9. A few well placed transmissions over the next few days garnered results. As was stated above, what comes out, can also go in!
Well the real bottom line is that money talks and the rest walk.
I always laugh at how the FCC goes after the little guy who messes up some repeater or uses his 2 mtrs for hunting deer. Yet when the big guys show up they go hide in their cave. No the ARRL is not much better either. They only give you lip service.
I agree with K0BG and did just that when I had a problem with the cable company. I got a letter from the cable company and the city saying that if I contenued messing up their TV I would be cited for being a bad person and possiably jailed.
I laughed at them till I got a local court order saying I was to stay off of 145.24. Basically to stop or go to jail for not doing what the judge said. No FCC, No ARRL (which really miffed me off so I cancled my ARRL membership and demanded a refund- which never came)
I used the cable company coax for a long wire antenna for the HF band. Used only CW from then on so that the local thugs could not hear who I was.
Now loading a KW into the old coax for CATV worked great. I got the WAS, DXCC and a bunch of countries while using it as a big long wire antenna. I understand that it also helped the color presentation on a lot of TV sets when we got on 75 mtrs too. We won't even mention the neighbors who told me about the stereo making strange sound. One even said he was going to sue the cable company because he believed it damaged his tv that only picked up navy ships at sea when Johnny Carson was on. I heard from his wife that he took a baseball bat to the tv when it acted up, called and yelled at the cable guy, and threatened to shoot him for lousy service.
Finally the CATV people found out where it was coming from and they physically cut down the old cable line. It was fun while it lasted. They sent me a bill for the equipment they said I damaged. I sent it back saying prove it. They tried their best to harass and get back at me but I moved shortly after to a new house that was away from all this mess.
Not once did the enforcement paper hangar of the FCC ever do anything. I had asked for help from him and others like the ARRL. None came. I guess it is the way of the world.
My view of ham radio and the groups who say they run it really took a turn in the other direction. I can say at the time I too was going to give up on ham radio.
I just couldn't leave it and feel defeated. After all, hams are supposed to be smarter than the average person- well they used to be. I sat down and though out a plan of payback.
We reviewed the rules of the game and applied them equally. After all why not they set the rules.
I won't tell you what happened next on ATV but, I will say it sure put a dent in their day. The second the CATV guy showed up we filed a stalking and harrassment suit. Went to court showing that their system was not contained due to the interfearance and leakage. Then we went after City hall. Right their on the CATV city chanel for the whole city to see, in living color, LIVE we blamed the mayor and council for allowing this company to do such sabby business in the city. I had used their own CATV which showed the local city council meeting (aired at two other times also) with me on saying that how do we know if these illeagle and shabby maintained cable leaks arn't causing our kids brain damage due to the exposure? Could this lead to bad grades in students, deliquency or other bad social behavior?
I showed a tape of a government film intitled- the harmful effects of microwaves on lab dogs, cats and mice. It was a oldie but a goodie that warned people of bad effects of radiation.
I had been talking to one lady who said her dog never had problems till the TV cable came in. I asked if she would come to the City Council meeting and tell what happened. She did. (she could have gotten a academy award for the way she explaned it)
She got up and with her sad old eyes almost brought the place down in tears.
She said, We’ve known for over a year that Bob the dog has arthritis. He started having problems about the time they put the cable TV in. We had heard it was harmful and wondered if it could be the cause of his sickness. He has had about three “flair ups” where he has began limping and we’ve had to give him Rimadyl for several days at a time.
At this point, we are able to treat his arthritis with Cosequin. He took a large dose for about a month and now he’s on a maintenance dose of one tablet in the morning and one tablet at night. He thinks it is a treat so getting it in him twice daily is not a problem.
In the last few months, I have noticed him having more difficulty with stairs. I have noticed him getting off the bed slower. He is loseing more hair in spots. I notice him choosing to sleep on his dog bed more and more often instead of climbing into the bed with us which he’s always done!
Bob has always been the most gentle large dog. He’s fun, goofy and very playful. In the last year, after the cable TV was put in, there’s been a few occasions that we felt things were not right. Last night was one of them, where he suddenly becomes grumpy. Just like the tape showed of lab animals exposed to radiation you just saw. He was laying in bed with us and we had been loving on him, massaging him, rubbing his ears and his belly and all the sudden he showed his teeth! I have no idea what happened. It was strange. We feel it is the Cable radiation doing it. I am trying to contribute it to possible pain in his neck or back and the fact that his Cosequin was about two hours “late” last night.
She went on to say that Bob acts perfectly fine today. He is running, playing, happy and enjoyed his breakfast. I brushed him thoroughly today trying to see if there was a painful spot where the radiation had cause his hair to fall out but he even enjoyed being brushed! I hate the cable TV for what they have done to my dog. Sobbing, all his hair is falling out!!
She demanded the city council do something to save the rest of the pets in the city.
The room was erie quiet. So was I.
I then showed a video of a dog that had droppsy claiming that could this be a result of the cable radiation leakage. Showed the ham radio with the S meter pinned all the way over and sounds of radiation.
I exclamed that this is harmful and unprofessional for a company to allow the public to be exposed to this leaking radiation. (note the use of choice words that strikes fear in the hearts of the common person)
Next day on the news stands-CATV vs ham radio operator the newspapers said. Who better to know about the harmful effects of microwaves than a ham. They went on to say how the mayor and council were spellbound and angered at the cable companies dispeckable disreguard for the safety of life by allowing its microwave cable to leak all over the city. The article went on to say how a ham radio operator took the lead pointing out how damaging the CATV leaking cable was to society with- undisputed video and testomony. (Of course reporter don't know the difference between a microwave and a cable TV. So they put some of the microwave radiation exposure data in the article too)
Made a few dollars after legal expensies when they settled out of court. Seems the cable company had more complaints of radiation damage and threats of homeowners legal action after the council meeting and newpaper article than customers.
They shortly after sold out to a larger CATV fish.
Ya just have to remember- money talks and the rest walks. I always like the old ways. Show a dummy how he is being wrong'ed and he will fight your battle for you especally when he doesn't know what he is talking about. Sound fimilar?
Don't believe me? Look at Al Gore and his CO global warming. They gave him the NO-BELL didn't they.
Remember to have fun. Thats what ham radio is all about.
Oh and Sat TV made a killing in the town. They ran a article about how they didn't have leaky radiation. Sold american.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W6TH on April 15, 2008
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.
Someone mentions this:
As soon as just one cell phone or internet provider decides they need some of our spectrum, we can kiss it goodbye.
Is this the reason all are extra class, or almost, to get off of the higher frequency bands and go to HF, Later losing the higher bands for lack of use or interest?
The Federal Government gives nothing free, but maybe just ham radio, free tickets to HF.
.:
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W6TH on April 15, 2008
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.
Is the United States Government a Cartel?
A combination of businesses closely interconnected for common profit or is the United States Government a Mafia organization, a secret criminal organization operating mainly in the United States.
The United States Government is trying to make Robot's of us Americans and trying to program, we the Citizens.
...................E pluribus unum....................
.:
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by K3ANG on April 15, 2008
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N2EY
You wrote:
"Except it isn't just the present administration; the attitude goes all the way back to the Reagan Administration."
As a former US Government employee, IMO the present 'attitude' goes back to the Carter administration; Reagan brought in the professionals.
de K3ANG
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by KB2DHG on April 15, 2008
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I had a similar situation back a few years ago...My fix was an easy one but it took me several months of constant complaining to the powwer company in my area. It was a bad ground on a transformer at the phone pole down the street, anyway I had to really work at it to get any action. I am sorry for your troubles and hope that you do not give up the hobby and do finnaly solve the problem...
Bottom line, the squeekie wheel gets the oil... KEEP SCREAMING!
Good luck, Lou, KB2DHG
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KC6TOA on April 15, 2008
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Apparently leaky cable systems are vulnerable to ingress interference in the 5 to 42MHz range, causing "upstream laser clipping".
A ham was operating legal power limit on 3.77MHz:
http://www.cable360.net/ct/operations/bestpractices/15016.html
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by K1CJS on April 15, 2008
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"Now for one comment that I just LOVED : You didn't mention whether you are a league member or not. If you're not, it's wrong of you to expect their help.
And I thought that the League was there to help continue the service, I guess that they only care about the rights of paying members. So the rest of us are on our own, what's new?"
No, not at all. However, you can't expect help without paying the bill. Would a lawyer help you without billing you? No. So is it so odd to return help to the organization you're asking for help? No.
If you ask the ARRL for help, of course they're going to expect you to be or become a member--or at the very least, make a contribution. If you're one of those die-hard ARRL bashers who frequent this site, do you actually expect them to help you if you won't return that help in some way? Dream on.
However, if you're a ham who just hasn't gotten around to researching the ARRL and deciding whether to join, something like this happening to you may just make up your mind for you--that it is time to join.
One thing--if you do ask help from the ARRL, go through your section manager and his or her staff first. I'm not saying that will work better, but that should be the first place you go. If you then don't get any responce, put your request into the ARRL HQ.
The ARRL is there for amateurs. They haven't got the resources to send help to every single complaint from the field, but they can often respond and point you in a direction from which help can be had. The price of league membership isn't that high--it's cheap insurance for the services offered/available. In that regard, its similar to the AAA for car drivers.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W6TH on April 15, 2008
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John W4IVW,
You are getting much suggestions and advice, but I don't see any one joining you, you are right "No One Cares Unless It's Them".
.:
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by K1CJS on April 15, 2008
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"Reagan brought in the professionals."
Got to agree with this statement. Ronnie Ray-gun brought in the professionals who showed the government dummies how to ruin government for the people and by the people, and substitute for the corporations and their profits.
Ronnie also started the 'privatization of America' bullshit and the 'government deregulation of business' that gave control to the corporations and made government agencies the puppets of those same corporations. We now see the result. Phone bills that used to be twenty or thirty dollars a month now up in the hundreds, utility bills (electricity, gas and water/sewer) going the same way, gasoline way over $3 a gallon, food and commodity pricing way up, and so on.
And we can only blame ourselves, because we put those a$$h*les in office to begin with.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by AC7CW on April 15, 2008
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Put the ball in their court. Get a legal limit mobile setup and operate it right next to where they are leaking, reverse the leakage problem iow :) jk.
Become an amateur attorney and a public relations guy and put the cable company's technical management on trial both in the press and the courts.
Most cable services seem interested in fixing things quickly, you just have become entangled with a schlockey one. It happens. Maybe you can cause a management shake up before you are done. You need to learn how to escalate things because it's in everybody's interest that you do so including the cable customers. I've gotten a car dealership shut down before and raised hell with several organizations, all without raising my voice, it took some informative letters and legal threats to the right persons.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N3OX on April 15, 2008
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"Become an amateur attorney and a public relations guy and put the cable company's technical management on trial both in the press and the courts. "
These are all potentially useful suggestions but take a look at that statement and tell us why we shouldn't take up stamp collecting or model shipbuilding instead of fighting a protracted legal/PR battle to get simple RFI issues fixed? Not everyone wants to fight. Some just want to give up because they don't want to spend two years getting the interference fixed, they want to have a nice relaxing hobby.
Let's not miss the broader point here... all of us should worry, even those of us who *don't* have major RFI problems should probably figure out what is wrong with the system and press our elected representatives to give the FCC enforcement guys their teeth back. Giving pep talks to a guy who's been beaten down by attempting to fix this sort of just proves his point. He could use some help here, from people who aren't directly affected by this interference (and one poster who forwarded his info to some hams in the cable industry has the right idea, I think).
It should take a handful of phone calls to the right people, at no more than about 15 minutes apiece, plus a modest wait of a few weeks to a month or so to get this sort of issue resolved.
You're right that most utilities and cable companies are responsive, but those that aren't should get their a**es handed to them by the FCC if they aren't. Big fines for polluting the public radio spectrum. It shouldn't take a year-or-two-long vigilante campaign with a one-two legal & PR punch to do it. It's nice in the movies, reaffirming the human spirit, showing that the underdog can persevere in the end. But we have a government agency to do this stuff for us, and if they're not doing their job, we should fire them.
Then again, that the people have a voice is largely a funny joke, especially when that voice is a cracked whisper from underneath a pile of lobbyist money.
Dan
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by K6CRC on April 15, 2008
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a ham sez "Is the United States Government a Cartel?
A combination of businesses closely interconnected for common profit or is the United States Government a Mafia organization, a secret criminal organization operating mainly in the United States."
------------------
We are a democracy (technically a republic), and WE are responsible for the government. If you don't like the President, urge the loyal opposition to nominate an electable candidate next time. The current party did. There is no reason to think the other guys cannot.
Business pays the bills, as do the wealth citizens. Over 90% of the tax revenues come from the top 5% of the tax payers. Just hope that businesses and wealthy citizens do not take their chips and go somewhere else.
No one benefits more from a healthy capitalistic market than Hams - look at the radio you can buy for less than $1000. Without the R&D spent on commercial products, and sold at a profit, hams would still be using home-brew AM rigs and discreet transistors. It would be a different hobby - good or bad, depending on your view.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N3OX on April 15, 2008
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"Most cable services seem interested in fixing things quickly, you just have become entangled with a schlockey one."
Part of the problem, too, is that a lot of cable technicians do a really terrible job of connectorizing cable.
I don't think very many of them that I've seen around here actually understand the whole concept of keeping the inside in and the outside out. I'm sure there are guys out there who are great at their installation job, but not around here.
I think that all cable companies will eventually become schlockey. It's the maximum-profit solution, because they can pretty much ignore their customers who are having problems... especially when they've set up a monopoly.
Dan
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N3OX on April 15, 2008
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"We are a democracy (technically a republic), and WE are responsible for the government. If you don't like the President, urge the loyal opposition to nominate an electable candidate next time. The current party did. There is no reason to think the other guys cannot. "
Obama, Clinton, McCain...
I'll be happy to see any of them replace Dubya.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N8GNI on April 15, 2008
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Cable frequencies between Off Air TV channel 6 (83.25Mhz) and channel 7 (175.25Mhz) are labeled as letters. Channel A is called channel 14, Channel B is called channel 15, and you get the picture.
As you stated Cable Channel 18 (channel E)is 145.25 Mhz.
The problem is that if there is a leak, it’s not going to be just channel 18. Channel 14 is 121.25; Aircraft frequencies are 118.0 - 121.4 Mhz. Cable Channel 30 is 259.25 Mhz and a Military aircraft frequency is 259.30 Mhz. I'm sure TWA and the US military aren't going to let it continue to leak for very long!
Check these other frequencies.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W9PMZ on April 15, 2008
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"Ronnie also started the 'privatization of America' bullshit and the 'government deregulation of business' that gave control to the corporations and made government agencies the puppets of those same corporations. "
I sure wish they would get rid of Social Security.......
If the US Governement had to account for liabilites just as companies you would see that the US Government is in debt to the tune of $57T to $65T, depending on who you ask and going further in the hole to the tune of $1T every 8 months.
"Ronnie" may have be a poor influence but programs FDR and LBJ concocted are about to bring on wholesale disaster as the boom generation retires.
73,
Carl - W9PMZ
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by AD5TD on April 15, 2008
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"If the US Governement had to account for liabilites just as companies you would see that the US Government is in debt to the tune of $57T to $65T, depending on who you ask and going further in the hole to the tune of $1T every 8 months.
"Ronnie" may have be a poor influence but programs FDR and LBJ concocted are about to bring on wholesale disaster as the boom generation retires."
...goes back to digging bunker. :-P
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Don't give up
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by K4RAF on April 15, 2008
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I'd contact the FAA because if the picture carrier is leaking on 145.250, the aural carrier falls in the air band. Hope you live near an airport. You may want to contact the airport folks as well but it is not hopeless.
Also keep in mind what had done to get their attention when faced with same situation 20 years ago. What leakage says is signal can get out, so would that mean I could get in as well? Their system is not supposed to radiate, mine is. That is when all rules are followed...
:)
They fixed it, QUICK... Icom + Mirage 1080 + 147-11 + packet = Instant Remote Control of repairmen... BEACON ev1
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W9PMZ on April 15, 2008
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"...goes back to digging bunker. :-P "
ok, back to the bunker whilst you continue your kool aide...........
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W4VR on April 15, 2008
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It's hard to believe the FCC could not track down the interference. I'm surprised you did not hear from them to find out the results of their investigation...all I can say is "keep bugging them." It would not surprise me that the interference is coming from a classified government/military facility. In a case such as this they'll keep you in the dark until the matter is resolved. I get interference on my WiMax connection and the ISP and I know very well it's coming from Part 15 devices...they can see it on their spectrum analyzer.
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by NA7CS on April 15, 2008
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Had the same problem back in 9-land. It is amazing how fast the cable company acts when their customers complain about SSB/CW signals coming through their TV. The problem was fixed rather quickly.
As for the American Radio Rip-off League.. I was a member at that time, and all they did was give me lip-service concerning this, and several other issues. They were a big waste of my time. I got better results dealing with the cable company.
Do not give up, there is always a solution. Remember, the squeaky wheel ALWAYS gets greased.
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by WB2AMU on April 15, 2008
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I agree with KD5SFK's comments about exploring the possibility of doing VHF operations via portable means. I would never give up the hobby as I would finds other ways to do it. I do not have a permanent Two Meter or 432 setup in my house as it is all portable during contests or during enhanced propagation conditions. I operate from the car to portable antennas. It does sound like a leakage problem that has not been correctly located yet.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by K6CRC on April 15, 2008
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A ham sez "Ronnie also started the 'privatization of America' bulls--t and the 'government deregulation of business' that gave control to the corporations and made government agencies the puppets of those same corporations. "
If you want to see the wonderful world of government controlled business, visit any one of many such disasters in Africa, Latin America, or Europe. Just hope that the electricity and water is working the day you show up.
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by K1DA on April 15, 2008
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OK, we can blame our least favorite political party for a technical problem or we can act like grownups. The current state of cable "regulation" can
be traced back to deregulation actions brought to us by an FCC packed by a party certain whinners posting here might not expect.
Be that as it may, the STATE "Public Utilities Commission" is as good place to start as the FCC.
AS others have mentioned, both state and federal regulators can be given a butt kick by a complaint to the local politicians who vote on their operating budgets. Honey is always better than vinegar dealing with these folks. Once they become convinced that NOTHING will ever make you happy, though, they quickly lose interest. DO you KNOW who your local and federal
representatives are? Don't expect them to show up with tea and sympathy unless you communicate with them and a "D" will usually be interested in jumping on an FCC "controlled" by the "other" party. "All politics is local"
BTW turning lose a crazywoman to rant about radiation might solve one problem but WE radiate as well and YOU could be the next target. (The law of unexpected consequencies) The stuff that gets passed around our town council whenever a cell phone company wants to add nothing more than a new antenna system defies description. (The same nuts blame the fire department antenna for birth defects)
Take some encouragement from the fact that cable is going fiber FAST (no more RF on the lines). Become a strong supporter of groups who push cable companies to upgrade service because fiber won't radiate on 145.
I am not sure about the 150 watt amp idea. Fun though it may be the thing most people will remember is that the "ham" "blasted through" the cable, not the technical details of whose fault it was. Some years ago a reporter with time on her hands interviewed a local ham (reporting on hobbies, I think) who bragged that his station was so powerful he could "talk right through" foreign broadcast on 40 meters" only when the story was printed the reporter left out "foreign", and "40 meters" and printed "talk right through broadcast stations". The rest of us about threw up.
In an area where a popular channel 2 was from out of town it was already hard enough to use 6 meters without this nimrod giving the impression hams talked through it on purpose.
An HT and an orange vest impress local pols who could come to your aid less than a clear description of the problem with a explanation that it could just as easily happen to the police or fire system.
Remember, you can't fight city hall if you don't even try.
CD
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by W8ZNX on April 15, 2008
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BUNK W4IVW also posted this rant
on QRZ a few weeks ago
the Head Engineer for that system
( who happens to be active Amateur Radio Op )
posted a reply on QRZ
seems John W4IVW is only
teling his side of the story
Mac
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by WA3REY on April 15, 2008
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In Pennsylvania, cable companies must get permission from the local municipalities to continue operating every few years.
I think you did everything right by starting at the top of the chain of command. But you might want to tell your story to the folks who must approve the cable company's operations locally. Your history of public service might get the attention of the local law makers. Good luck and keep us posted. Tom, WA3REY
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W8ZNX on April 15, 2008
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please see reply by Phil KM4OP
on QRZ forum / talk and opinions
" no one cares unless it's them "
Phil who works for that cable company
has a very good reply
that might show John W4IVW s posting
in another light
yours truly
Mac w8znx
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by ICR71A on April 15, 2008
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This "article" just illustrates the sad state eHam is sinking to. When does a personal rant about cable troubles in a trailer park become fodder for a section that presumably seeks to educate hams on technical issues?
I recall now why I rarely check in here anymore.
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W2BSA on April 15, 2008
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Once I saw that Comcast is the cable provider, it answered all of my questions. Comcast is by far the worst cable provider in the US. Most of their systems are junk and they won't do anything to fix or upgrade them. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a mountain of complaints against them for interference. I say keep pushing until you get satisfaction. Junk systems should not be allowed to continue operating.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by AD5TD on April 15, 2008
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For those too lazy to look on QRZ, it's quite a different story. There are ALWAYS two sides.
Hello All,
My name is Phil. I am an Amateur Extra Class, callsign KM4OP, Located in Palm Bay Fl.
I would like to comment on this subject.
All my comments are strictly my opinion and my opinion ONLY as a Amateur Radio Operator. I am not representing nor commenting for Comcast or the Federal Communications Commission.
I've been a active radio enthusiast since my early teens and been around electronics all my life. I served in the U.S MARINE CORPS in the commuications arena. I am now a system technician for Comcast in the Vero Beach Florida system and have been in the cable TV industry for nearly 30 years.
I would like to say that Mr Conefrey W4IVW has aways treated me with respect and deserves the same in return.
I happen to be one of the Technicians that worked on the problem that Mr. Conefrey is describing. I must add that cable TV leakage is a very big problem for cable operators and is NOT taken lightly. Comcast for one is very big on keeping CLI (Cumulative Leakage Index) under control with a everyday maintenance program using detection gear with GPS. All are logged most repaired on the spot. We also have 3 flyovers per year. The last one gets filed with the FCC and they must all pass. We address all leakage complaints within 24 hrs for most cases sooner.
I am a little disappointed because I know how many man hours we put into troubleshooting W4IVW's problem. I can tell you we invaded the mobile home park like a military assault. We even went out in the early morning hours and shut off the optical node that feeds the whole area. We then went and repaired all the leaks that we can find most inside customers mobile homes. We rewired a number of homes no charge to the customers mostly poor wiring installed by the customers. We also replaced bad drop cables, one case was a bad underground feeder, we had a contractor out the next day putting in a new one. I can go on, we got to the point where we could not detect anymore leaks. Mr. Conefrey was happy at that point and so were we because we were able to work together to resolve these problems weather they were low level leaks or not.
Well it did not last long, maybe a week or so maybe longer we got a report of more problems with W4IVW interference with a pulsing signal. All this time I was using my work detection gear plus a Icom V-8000 with outside antenna. To make a long story short we worked from inside the mobile home park out. We were fighting to find leaks. A few days later two FCC Field Engineers came out from the Tampa office. From what I understand they viewed our pubilc records, YES, public records. They went out to Mr. Conefrey location. They did a test at W4IVW's station and did a rideout within our system. Our system was in compliance. The FCC Engineers came out a 2nd time due to Mr. Conefrey's E-mails. This time they set-up a tower and yagi in front of W4IVW's Station and again the system was in compliance.
There is a lot more to this, I even set-up in front of W4IVW's station with my bucket truck with a yagi on top with my FT-847 (SEE ATTACHED PICTURE) without pre-amp and did some DFing and I was not picking up the pulsing signal at the level inside W4IVW station. I asked Mr. Conefrey if he would bring his radio out and hook it up to the antenna I had set-up but he declined. I offered to work this problem on my off time, he declined. I myself have rode Mr. Conefrey's area out since then and have cleared everything that has been detected.
I would like to mention that Comcast is a great supporter of the Amateur Radio Operators and clubs in the area by allowing ham radio repeaters to be installed on company towers RENT FREE. We have also held Ham Operations from many Comcast facilities in South Florida after and during hurricanes. I understand that the same support is experienced in other States. If I can assist anyone or answer any questions feel free to contact me.
Phil, KM4OP
Attached Images Phil-3.JPG (23.5 KB, 29 views)
__________________
73
DE PHIL
KM4OP
There is also a great picture of him and his bucket truck and a yagi on top.
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Giving up is not an Option !
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by G3SEA on April 15, 2008
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Rather than drop out of the hobby you might dabble in a little HF and dare I say it, even Echolink from a laptop to stay in touch with old Ham friends on distant VHF/UHF repeaters until the situation is resolved in some of the ways described in other posts.
'Giving Up ' is not an American attribute !
KH6/G3SEA
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by K0RGR on April 15, 2008
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Are you a League member? If so, I have a very hard time believing that the League officials didn't refer you to their technical people who deal with these sorts of complaints.
You don't state which League officials you notified, but I'm surprised that your Division Director or any of the league officers would react this way.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by AC7CW on April 15, 2008
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"These are all potentially useful suggestions but take a look at that statement and tell us why we shouldn't take up stamp collecting or model shipbuilding instead of fighting a protracted legal/PR battle to get simple RFI issues fixed? Not everyone wants to fight. Some just want to give up because they don't want to spend two years getting the interference fixed, they want to have a nice relaxing hobby. "
The reason I would take such action is because it just is not at all hard to do. Often times a person is just not dealing with the right person in an organization and equally as often there are organizations that really don't respond to anything much at all until there is a legal threat involved. In my experience no "protracted legal action" is ever necessary, they will typically do something about the problem because THEY don't want a "protracted legal action"...
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W4LGH on April 15, 2008
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AD5TD said..."Must I be the first to point out that CABLE is NOT a "RADIO COMMUNICATIONS SIGNAL"? It's a "Closed System" NOT broadcast over the air."
As tempting as it sounds to use a hi-power amp, It isn't necessary. Cable signals at best are only 1v p2p...a 50watt transmtter sitting by the leak should rack havoc with the entire system, possibly blowing out the line amplifier...HOWEVER, before you go and do this, whether cable is a CLOSED system or not, it is still protected by the same communication laws, and tampering with this form of communication is a very serious crime!! It will bring the FEDs in. Now they would have to PROVE it was done intentionly, and the fact that they have a leakage don't hurt either, but it is something to think about before doing it!!!
It could bring in more HEAT than you are willing to deal with. Now 145.250 is allowcated to Ham radio as primary...
Deliberate interfearence with ANY form of communications is very serious. I would probably do what Don Keith said, document it, and go to city counsel meeting, ask to be on the roster, and explain your problem. See what happens...can't hurt.
73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by K1CJS on April 15, 2008
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"If you want to see the wonderful world of government controlled business......"
Who said anything about government CONTROL. The government regulation we had for years worked well enough to rein in the companies providing the utilities. You never saw million dollar salaries and bonuses for top executives back then.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by AC7NA on April 15, 2008
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I've watched this and the QRZ.com thread run their course and here is my 2 cents:
-It appears a ham had an interference problem, reported it to the CATV co. responsible, they acknowledged it was their problem, took prompt action and went over and above to correct it.
- Ham still complains. They again fix the problem and ask the ham to confirm their methods and results this time.
- He declines (why???), continues to complain, gains fame and notariety on QRZ.com, still not satisfied, attempts same on eHam.net, does not refute response given on both forums by CATV employee directly involved in resolving the problem.
-Now the question is...where will this ham complain next?
I'm not buying it....or I guess I don't care 'cause it's not me. Sell your gear on eBay and take up another hobby that offers the fame and fortune you crave.
Brian AC7NA
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N0CRS on April 15, 2008
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If the original complaint is TRUE , if it were me ,
I would move into an old school bus in the country .
I would !
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Who cares
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by NN4RH on April 15, 2008
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If he really wants to drop out, just let him go without all the cooing. Some people thrive on being victims.
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RE: Who cares
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by W4LGH on April 15, 2008
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As Hams, we all live with interference from one time to another, both QRN and QRM. It's a part of the hobby. The key, and that which makes us Hams is the ablity to work around it, find it, and fix it!
I said in my first post here that I didn't believe this story. This guy was peobably one who complained about Morse code keeping him from advancing in the hobby. Well, they did away with the code....so I guess
interference is as good of an excuse as any!
Try stamp collecting, and get yourself some cheese to go with that whine!
73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N6JSX on April 15, 2008
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You missed the boat in getting FCC action.
You forgot your US congresspersons.... The FCC "never" wants Congressional inquiries! But to get any Congress person to act in your behalf you MUST must show them an effort and paper trail of your efforts to show all of what you have done to solve the problem. This includes logs of visits, names, dates, what was said/done.
The ARRL is in written agreement to support HAMs to FCC interface concerning Part 97 Rules violations - you do NOT need to be an ARRL member to get them to act in this regards. However, be it known the only tangible ARRL HQ effort will come when you threaten to cancel you membership and request others to alao do so, as this is a direct threat to the HQ salaries (the only thing that matters).
You must create the paper trail of letters/complaints for congress to take on your fight. What is amazing to me is the FCC can actual make some serious money/fines off the CATV for a dirty system. Logic would think the FCC would love to tap into some CATV revinues (providing the local FCC isn't already in bed with the CATV busine$$.)
Selling out and running is a cowards way of submission - you have yet to do all you can do!
GL - keep the faith,
N6JSX
past LA OO Coordinator
past WI OO Coordinator
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W4LGH on April 16, 2008
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N6JSX says..."However, be it known the only tangible ARRL HQ effort will come when you threaten to cancel you membership and request others to alao do so, as this is a direct threat to the HQ salaries (the only thing that matters)."
I see N6JSX knows how the ARRL works...SHOW ME THE MONEY! I quit the ARRL 2 years ago! When they get rid of David Summer, I might reconsider.
73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W6TH on April 16, 2008
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.
A ham says:
When they get rid of David Summer, I might reconsider.
I say, get rid of the ARRL, I quit membership some 70 years ago.
.:
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by WB2WIK on April 16, 2008
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I haven't read all the replies, so don't know if anyone mentioned this or not:
When I had a similar problem (probably not as bad as the one described here, but annoying nonetheless) in New Jersey back in the 80s (Cable channel 18 was indeed 145.25 and it was being actively used and generating interference badly on the 2m band), I tried to pinpoint the interference source just using the stacked 2m horizontal yagis at my home. I found I could "peak" the interference source very well, and it was a pretty strong peak.
Then, I fired up on 2m FM, asked if the frequency was in use a few times, found I wasn't on a repeater input or output frequency, and put on a CQ loop on 145.25 MHz running 1kW carrier power, FM. I let it run for an hour, didn't hear any replies, and put it on for another hour.
I did this for a few days in a row, until the cable company contacted *me,* complaining I was a huge source of interference to them. If I didn't stop interfering with them, they were going to do all sorts of nasty things. I invited them to go ahead, claiming I had a license to transmit on that frequency and they didn't.
I never heard from them again, but a week later the interference disappeared and never returned.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W6TH on April 16, 2008
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.
I can't wait until January to hear the state of the union message from Bush. Iraq is going great says Mc Cain, Mc Cain didn't mention as only 109 killed yesterday in Iraq. What is the total now, 90,000?
We hams all have terrible problems, don't we.
.:
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by K5MO on April 16, 2008
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Ahh... nothing like a Kalifornia Lib to hijack a thread for his own purposes.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W6TH on April 16, 2008
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.
k5mo
I just love you guys with a vanity call.
.:
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KD7IIC on April 16, 2008
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John,
You have officals appointed at a local level that would serve you better. What I mean by local is at the section level. For this situation maybe you shouldcorrespond with your Section Manager, Technical Advisor, and Volunteer Counsel. Part of the process of the system is knowing where to direct your requests to. Instead of suffering to your frustrations maybe you should organize your argument or seek someone who will do it for you.
Troy MT Section Offical Observer
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by AE6RO on April 16, 2008
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California Lib could mean Libertarian.
But I digress.
I was wondering if the original poster could be so kind (in light of all this trash talk) to post if the interference could be heard on FM? Or is it just SSB/ CW?
AE6RO
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by AE6RO on April 16, 2008
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New Ham Shire came out pretty strongly for John McCain.
Back in the 1960s with the Space Race and all it was almost glamorous or at least intellectual to be a ham. They needed us to help beat the Soviets.
Now "they" don't need us any more so we might as well all go and (heck) ourselves. We might be talking to terrorists or even North Korea. ("Remember the Pueblo!")
I've noticed HF interference around here several times. Sometimes it was from BPL, other times it seemed more local. Sometimes it sounded like a jazzed-up sewing machine motor. I think it was a neighbor with a new toy someone gave him.
Back in 1975 I had a really longwire antenna and it was great at picking up some kind of S9 buzzing noise every 15 KC. My friend in Alhambra said he couldn't hear it, so it must have been local.
On top of that the sunspots are gone and the ionosphere will probably evaporate once the Landscheidt Minimum sets in. Even Mother Nature is against us hams. So why should a bunch of bureaucratic idiots be any different?
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W8AAZ on April 16, 2008
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Wow, how did this get to the white house? Sounds like a local company problem to me. here in ohio, there is supposed to be a repeater 30-40 miles away with a 145.25 output frequency but I can't hear it over the cable signals. Still that is the only interference I can blame on them. I though cable companies were making their main lines over to fibreoptic cable, am I wrong there? If you can prove intereference to aeronautical comm/navigation frequencies, I thought that always got a close look from the feds. Most public service has gone to 800 Mhz. trunking, and even digital, I would think that would alleviate alot of squaks from them. Hi band VHF is now mostly business, or volunteer firefighters, etc. around here now. Lower priority stuff I guess. and hamsters are almost at the bottom near CB probably.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W9AWX on April 16, 2008
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I know that one of our area Hams was having an issue with the cable company. He was getting terrible interference from the cable system. The local cable company actually was relatively ok for him to deal with. They certainly were not quick to help, but his persistence paid off. They ended up re-wiring his apartment building, the lines going out to the pole, all of the cable converters, and all of the traps(?) within apparently a couple of block area. This did not occur overnight, it took about a year to get fixed. Now he is happy that he can work 2 meters on 20 watts without blowing away the local channels, the building owner is happy that the cable wiring is updated, and the cable company is happy because there will not be any problems with the wiring in that build for at least another decade.
Don't give up. The solution will take time. Gently remind them of their interference, but, remember that everything takes time.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by K4KWH on April 16, 2008
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You must create the paper trail of letters/complaints for congress to take on your fight. What is amazing to me is the FCC can actual make some serious money/fines off the CATV for a dirty system. Logic would think the FCC would love to tap into some CATV revinues (providing the local FCC isn't already in bed with the CATV busine$$.) (quote)
N6JSX,
Not to defend FCC; merely a clarification. It won't BE FCC "making serious money" off CATV. *They* don't make money on anybody. They are funded by annual budget allocations, and any fines ordered by them go to the US Treasury. While we consider the obvious business slant of the current Adminstration as witnessed by the BPL fiasco, it would be logical to assume that FCC would be reluctant to act against its "friends" in business. Still, they are STILL required to enforce the laws (and regulations) they themselves have put into place.
With respect to the current case, I have reserved comment thinking that there MUST be more to this than meets the eye (there often IS!) When I read the enforcement actions frequently posted on QRZ and the FCC web page, I see cases where utilities of all kinds have been required to stop interference to even ONE ham. So when I saw that THIS case has been presented with a seeming slant towards "victimization", no OTHER hams *seemed* have the same problem, arguments about the emergency operations ignored, and other issues I HAD to ask: WHY? IF the interference was NOT mitigated, WHY? IF the ham IS being ignored by ARRL, FCC, the county,the city the Public Service, or Utilities Commmission, WHY? So having heard from the ACTUAL engineer for the company, also a licensed amateur, familiar with the issues of interference, who states that HIS findings showed said interference HAD been abated, WHAT is REALLY the truth of the matter?
Opinion only, it would appear that the answers to these questions HAVE been answered and the the lack of "response" is its own answer: there is now no "interference". One final note:
Is it possible that there was INTERNAL interference being generated IN the station TO itself? The utility then corrected ITS problem, but, to the ham, the interference heard by HIM continued, leaving him to believe that Comcast did nothing? Could happen to anybody. I once thought that there was external interference to my station, but I tracked it to a wall wart that ran my 24 hour clock! ;)
K4KWH
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No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W9GDH on April 16, 2008
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Just hook up your power amp to the CATV cable coming into your house (you may have to signup for their sevice). Tansmit 1 to 1.5KW CW into cable. Then you can complain when you dont have any signal. Also your niebors won't either. After they fix the problem you transmit again. After 3-10 times of fixing the cable system the noise may be gone. Use this at your own risk. Have fun.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W8ZNX on April 17, 2008
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Gregory 9gdh
did you read the postings
or its it simply a case of poor reading comprehension
its quite possible
that the cable co has nothing to do with
w4ivw's probs
oh yes your idea
1500 watts in to the cable system
are you willing to do W4IVW's jail time
and lose your license for him
can see the news articles now
radio amateur goes to jail for sabotage of cable tv system
that will sure help ham radio
read or die
Mac
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W4LGH on April 17, 2008
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K4KWH said..."Not to defend FCC; merely a clarification. It won't BE FCC "making serious money" off CATV. *They* don't make money on anybody. They are funded by annual budget allocations, and any fines ordered by them go to the US Treasury."
They don't? Then where does all the money go when the auction off frequency allocations for billions of $$$?
Also WHO gave them the right to be the holder and seller of these un-used frequencies? Shouldn't it be first come first served? Currently ALL TV VHF frequencies will be coming available the end of March 2009, these are already up for bid.
73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by WB2WIK on April 17, 2008
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W9GDH I hope you were kidding.
I've transmitted on 145.25 to intentionally screw up the cable system, but I transmitted into my antennas, not into the cable! The system should be immune to this, if it's all properly shielded; and it's not, if it's not. My point was to try to create customer complaints of interference that they'd look into and solve, and it worked.
If you tried transmitting "into the cable," the first thing that would happen is the first RF splitter the cable was connected to would vaporize in milliseconds, disconnecting that branch of the cable from anything; the second thing that would happen is your transmitter would stop working because it would now be transmitting into no load. Silly idea.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N7TRZ on April 17, 2008
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Interference is a two-way street as noted above. I can tell you from experience that if you're getting them, they get you, and carry you to their subscribers in the area. When cable first went in here, I could get a tickle on 145.25, but little more. I could totally wipe out cable 18 when transmitting 10 watts or more from my rooftop antenna, and not just on 5.25.
I did find the cable company more than cooperative about the matter. The response to this sort of problem was always much faster than normal reception concerns.
What saved the cable provider here was the switch to fiber. No interference either way anymore.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W8JI on April 17, 2008
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If this guy really had the cable company out there and the FCC he needs to tell the complete story.
The last thing we need is them to work on a problem (which is rare these days) and have the Ham not tell the whole story.
Someone is fibbing.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by K4KWH on April 17, 2008
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K4KWH said..."Not to defend FCC; merely a clarification. It won't BE FCC "making serious money" off CATV. *They* don't make money on anybody. They are funded by annual budget allocations, and any fines ordered by them go to the US Treasury."
They don't? Then where does all the money go when the auction off frequency allocations for billions of $$$?
*******************************************************
Answer: US TREASURY
Also WHO gave them the right to be the holder and seller of these un-used frequencies? Shouldn't it be first come first served? Currently ALL TV VHF frequencies will be coming available the end of March 2009, these are already up for bid.
*******************************************************
Answer: CONGRESS
------------------------------------------------------
Ain't defending them or saying what's right or wrong. FCC is a Congressional Budget Item that operates with that allocated budget. They themselves pocket NO fines, fees, funds or proceeds from their actions. Why? Because that way, it takes the politics or incentive to favor one entity or the other-----or it is SUPPOSED to! :) I'm also, however, not saying that FCC itself isn't full of internal politics tho and has, unfortunately, become a politician's game rather than a technical agency.
73
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by WB2WIK on April 17, 2008
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The "FCC" visited me, twice in my ham career.
Once, in 1974. I was very active on 6m running a kilowatt from my hilltop home every weekend and this was pre-cable and pre-satellite. I had neighbors using rabbit ears for TV antennas and of course I overloaded them badly on CH 2. My across-the-street neighbor must have been an insomniac or a moron, he was watching TV at 6AM on Saturday morning (when I used to work meteor scatter, because it peaked right about then) when there was nothing on TV except cartoons in those days!
He arrived on my doorstep with a double barrel shotgun, loaded. That wasn't very funny. I called the cops, and they hauled him away.
He registered a complaint with the FCC (which I actually urged him to do, in lieu of shooting anybody) and a field engineer actually showed up a few weeks later. He was a nice guy and inspected my station, and my logbook (a requirement back then). He asked me to transmit on 6 meters without re-tuning anything, so I did that. The wattmeter registered about 600W output. My amp was a homebrew pair of 4CX250s. He looked at it, and said, "Nice work." He put his own Bird wattmeter in line with mine, and it read the same thing, 600W. He saw I had a low-pass filter in line (Drake TV-52-LP) and I demonstrated that when I transmitted, I had zero TVI on my own televisions (connected to yagis aimed towards the transmitters in NYC, using twin lead).
He said "thanks" and never returned.
My second encounter was in 1989 when the FCC OET was doing research for ruling on the biohazard effects, which later resulted in the "radiaton survey" now required by FCC for amateurs. Wayne N6NB was a consultant to the FCC on this matter, and since Wayne and I were friends, I was one of three or four southern CA stations they came to really check out closely.
They spent 3-4 hours! Measuring everything imaginable while I transmitted a test loop at 1 kW CW power on various HF bands. They found an incredible re-radiation from our Master Bedroom bed frame, towards one corner of the frame, where radiation was stronger than it was almost anywhere else on the property. That was weird. The OET scientist in charge was a very nice guy (not a ham) and advised, "It's probably not a good idea for you to do this and lay in bed at the same time, the levels there are really high." Of course, there is no scientific standard so nobody really knows what's hazardous or not, especially from HF emissions. But I was alarmed the radiation "measured" at my bed frame was higher than that directly from my antenna. Some weird resonance, and my antennas were too low (about 40 feet above ground) for the site.
Nothing to fear of FCC visits: My two, over a period of 30 years, worked out fine.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N3KQX on April 17, 2008
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Check the public file at your local office. They should have FCC form 320, and it must be less than 6 months old. This will show system leaks and fixes (cumulative leakage index or CLI). If it isn't there, ask them for the name and contact information for their division engineer (or operations manager, as the case may be). Inform him of the oversite and explain the issue you are having. This IS a big deal, and should be treated as such. There is no excuse for this cable operator to have a leak and not fix it.
In my system, every truck has a leakage detector and we are expected to find and fix a minimum number of leaks per month. We also have a GPS based data logger that interfaces with the detectors and will plot leaks on a map for later repair. We take leakage very seriously here. If a leak is inside a house and no one is home, we are permitted to disconnect that house and "tag" the door telling them we need to correct the problem before they can be reactivated. As some others mentioned, if signal gets out, it gets in, too. I've seen entire neighborhoods Internet service go out due to a hairline crack in a trunk line.
So don't give up just yet. There has to be someone in that company who knows what he's doing.
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by N0IT on April 17, 2008
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Maybe you ought to borrow an amp and arrange to qso a nearby ham for hour after hour during prime time on the frequency in question. If you are getting leakage out of the cable, I would imagine a KW on the right frequency would generate a lot of complaints of TVI that would motivate the cable company to do something.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KI4MF on April 17, 2008
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Always two sides to the story... Makes perfectly good sense and logical troubleshooting.
Hank KI4MF
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by RFSOAKED on April 17, 2008
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Dealt with a similar problem here myself. I had a cable leak that was always annoying me on 2m. I did the first thing all should do, check your house first, after doing so and repairing and replacing some connections that have been overlooked for some time outside in the drop box i started the hunt. If i turned my beam around on the tower, 8el, i could pinpoint it in one direction easy enough. And i found by transmitting on some of the cable tv frequencies that fall in the 2m band i could produce a noisy picture on my TV.
So i planned this out and followed through. First i called the cable company, discussed my problem, and the tech did his "best effort" to repair it. Which meant that since nobody else was complaining he let it go in one ear and out the other.
The next step was to chat on the frequency that got me the best response, it just happened to be the cable channel which provided monday night football fans with their weekly fix. 170w into the beam aimed in the direction of the strongest signal would just about wipe out the picture on my tv, and as i would find out all of my neighbors for about two blocks east to west, and three blocks north to south, i'm guessing i was pointed at a distribution amp on a nearby line and it was amplifying my signal into the line.
After two weeks of the game being wiped out calls were flooding in, and the following Friday i could not find the interference anymore. Did i do anything wrong? Nope, i was operating on a frequency for which i am licensed, i ID'ed as required, and talked to another ham so it wasnt a one way transmission. Though i could have also called CQ for an hour if i wanted to.. HI HI
Anyway, then the cable company here was bought out by another company after that incident and they pretty much overhauled the entire towns cable distribution, now i don't have any problems and i even have their service, both tv and internet, and its been quiet and worry free. The company that had owned it basically couldn't afford the upkeep anymore.
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by ONAIR on April 18, 2008
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How the heck could you just give up on a life long hobby? You have 2 options. 1: Start a legal action against the CCTV company, the FCC, or both, or 2., Just move the heck out of the Indian River area! There are loads of other places in Florida where you could be back on the air with no interference issues at all.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N7TRZ on April 18, 2008
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Why the heck should he move because of this issue? For the cost of a move you could put a lot of hoops out for them to jump through.
There are several actions that could be taken on his part that may yet be successful.
Pointing out the handicapping of his communications when, not if, the next hurricane hits ought to shake something loose. A call to a reporter or two might help. Bad PR is expensive to remedy.
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by WB6UUT on April 18, 2008
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Thankfully, it isn't always this way.
I've seen similar problems here, with leakage from cable channel "E" -- 145.25.
The local cable company was very responsive -- maybe because I know someone who actually knows the relevant laws, and also because at that time each city grants (and can revoke) the local CATV franchise.
I had a crew replacing connectors and drops until the problem was fixed.
But, your mileage may vary.
If there is an airport nearby, see if you can hear the same leakage on mid-band channel "A" -- 121.2625.
If they might interfere with aircraft, the FCC will shut the cable system down.
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RE: Don't give up
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by WA2NHZ on April 18, 2008
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Maybe the cable company should give you their total Premium cable package free for life in return for your tolerating their interference. Call them and ask!
They might find it cost effective to silence you. :O~
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by 5B4AFQ on April 18, 2008
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Im not promoting this and im not sugesting it ,, but one day somehow one friend just used one single needle to solve a similar problem.
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RE: Don't give up
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by KC5NYJ on April 18, 2008
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this isn't new
http://www.gars.net/tvich18.htm
I think it's probably no coincidence that cable ch. 18 is usually a local access channel, PBS or religious channel, the interference with which would generate little to no complaint, simply due to the ratio of viewers of such in any given area you might affect by intentionally transmitting in the vicinity of the leaky cable connection.
CATV operators have been trashing the band for decades. Nowadays, the hash from cable modems far exceeds the relatively localized interference created by one bad F connector. The hash from wireless routers attached to the cable modems is even worse.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W9GDH on April 18, 2008
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CAUTION: THE FOLLOWING IS A JOKE.
Just hook up your power amp to the CATV cable coming into your house (you may have to signup for their sevice). Tansmit 1 to 1.5KW CW into cable. Then you can complain when you dont have any signal. Also your niebors won't either. After they fix the problem you transmit again. After 3-10 times of fixing the cable system the noise may be gone. Use this at your own risk. Have fun.
CAUTION: THIS WAS A JOKE.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by OLDSWAB on April 18, 2008
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My friend. I think you had better reread the article again. He did state he had contacted th higher ups at ARRL. Sorry. Ted
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by OLDSWAB on April 18, 2008
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I will agree with you. It looks like everybody who has said their two cents are sitting back and doing nothing to help him. I am not a Ham operator, but If I can do anything to help him I will. I have had my fill of problems with the FCC over the years with no help from them. Now is the time to put your help to one of yours. Mot just talk about what you would do! Ted
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by N5UV on April 18, 2008
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Step 1: Get a General Class license and get on HF...if you want some real DX, get ready for Solar Cycle 24 and upgrade
Step 2: In your spare time, run legal limit on that 145 mhz. freq...as if your life depended on it.
I'm frankly a little surprised that you would give up your hobby this easily...I get disappointed all the time with deed restrictions, CC&Rs, etc., but I just find another way to get on the air...right now, that's going mobile HF during the day and stealth HF at night. Not my favorite set up, but hell, you have to make compromises when you can't have it your way, right or wrong.
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by KK0DJ on April 19, 2008
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Hi John.... this is a poignant story of money and power. Let me ask this... have you sought out help from any local television or radio stations or news outlets in your area. There is typically a consumer advocate that will most times come to your aid in something like this. The fellow hams in your County should band together and visit the local Mayor, City Council members individually and corporately at a public meeting. You should then escalate to your County Supervisors. That not working, then off to your Florida State Assemblyman and/or Senator. If the problem is still there, then go to your U.S. Representative and/or Senator. One of these visits should produce fruit. I would make a DVD of the problem, provide easy-to-read engineering documentation and laws. I would also make as many DVDs as you can as to what the ARES group has done in your area and what they could do in the event of another Hurricane. There is hope - and it's always been that the person who is right needs to prove themselves because those that are wrong are normally in power and holding the money. This is still America and you have a voice. Go for it!
73
KK0DJ
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Reply to John
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by KB9YGD on April 19, 2008
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Hi John this is Norman Kb9ygd and its so sad this happend to you but big money has very big power everwhere as i to have seen what happens when you are right but dont have the money to sway big bisiness,etc.As an avid all mode contester i must use my equipment so i do and several years ago i had a neighbor who rented and had rabbit easr for the antenna and everytime i used the radio he called the police and they came and harrased me badly its ashamed how some policemen can be so ignorant of what amateur radio is all about.I also called the fcc & asked for help as i was afraid the police were going to arrest me and received just one email from them.Then the guy next door cut all 3 of my coax cables while i was operating the NAQP and i called the police and no one seemed to know anything and they made no report or offered me any recourse.The money mongers run this country and just a regular citizen who has made them rich has very little or no say so in the matter.I`m ashamed of what america has become.73,Norman.
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by K9MI on April 20, 2008
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I'm not sure what happened with the FCC, but check this out:
http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/FCC_enforcement/cases/City_of_Anderson_IN.htm
I guess anything that shows up on the web is there forever. This problem took 7 months to solve and the ARRL did get involved. They have (or at least had) a person just for these cases. His first letter to the CEO of the Municipal owned Electric company. Then after a couple of months went by, and it was apparent they were not going to fix the problem.
As you can see on this link, a letter from the FCC to the mayor did get some attention. I think the possible fines got their attention. Anyway, the system did work, at least then and one other time when the letter to the CEO was all it took.
These 2 problems I had took 7 months to get fixed. My problem was on all the hf bands. 20 over signal for that long almost had me ready to throw in the towel also.
I know some people have issues with the Arrl, but when I went through proper channels there, they took over the fight and the end result was positive.
If the same thing happened today, would I get as much help from them? I don't know. I hope to think so. The RFI reflector is also a good place with helpful advice.
73, Mike K9MI
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by KG4RRN on April 20, 2008
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I didn't think this freq was a potential source of interference, until I jsut tuned it in. Yep, there is something on there(145.120) at about an S3. What is worse is the interference I get at 144.000 Mhz and I do have cable.The meter goes from S9-S7 on 144.000 !
By injecting a spurious signal into the cable directly, one should be capable of shutting down the whole area. When the cable trucks pull up to your houses of your neighbors stand outside with a large sign and pace back and forth up and down the block, I don't know what the best slogan to use but something
along the lines of CABLE SHUTS RADIO STATION
or "HOBBYDENIED BY CABLE TV" or "LEGAL HAM INTERFERED
WITH BY CABLE SIGNALS!"...
AND CALL THE PRESS THEY WILL EAT IT UP !!!
73 and its not over till its really over !
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KB9YKG on April 20, 2008
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I had a very, very similar experience with the cable company myself. I was actually issued the 145.250 frequency for the output frequency of my 2 meter repeater system. Not knowing any better I built a whole system (crystal controlled oscillator) using that frequency - only to later find that it is unusable in many areas (including my home at the time) due to interference from leaky CATV runs. After quite a bit of frustration I eventually threw in the towel...you gotta know when to fold 'em I guess....
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by IX4NT on April 21, 2008
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Bottom line: A Cable TV system is a 'closed system'. The cable system is not authorized to transmit on 2 Meters, except at Part 15 levels. The cable system is violating federal law by transmitting on unauthorized frequencies.
Assuming that Ch 18's visual carrier center frequency is around 145.2, the NTSC video signal could occupy about 4.5 MHz of bandwidth.
They really have an easy fix. If they use agile modulators, they can reassign Ch 18 to another channel outside any ham band.
BTW, this same problem exists for private land mobile radio stations. Leaky cable systems use many frequencies, including 450-470 MHz. For example, cable tv hyperband channel 62's visual carrier is centered at about 451.200 MHz.
The FCC derives income from 4 sources: federal budget allocation, regulatory fees, spectrum auctions and enforcement. They have an economic incentive to enforce aggressively, especially against businesses with deep pockets. Communication with the FCC should emphasize the regulatory aspect, that is, the cable system operator is violating federal law and FCC regulations by broadcasting on frequencies for which it is not authorized.
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by K5LDB on April 23, 2008
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I confess I didn't read the scores of replies so this may have been mentioned multiple times already. You may even have reported doing this but before giving up I'd contact my city council representative and point out how important your ARES work is considering your location. I'd do the same with my state rep and state senator. I'd do the same with my congressmen and two senators, adding for their benefit the failure of the FCC to resolve the problem. It may not (probably won't?) affect the outcome however there is a slight chance that someone in one of those governing/regulatory entities will consider the importance of radio communications during disasters and the probability given your prime target area and do something about it. If nothing else you can at least put the CATV folks through more hoops and grief. Good luck to you.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KD8HZC on April 23, 2008
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BIGGEST AND BEST PLACE TO COMPLAIN !!!
Call the local TV Stations. They just love a good under dog story. See stuff like that all the time here and Michigan, local consumer goes through all the right steps and still just gets ignored.
Please don't give up your ticket!!!
I am a newbie and you maybe the one who can help me and others out someday.
Bob
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KB4TPP on April 24, 2008
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so you are upset because the FCC turns a deaf ear to CATV QRM on ONE frequency and band? I'm sorry, let me get up off the floor from hysterical laughter.
Newsflash: the FCC isn't doing a thing to resolve life threatening interference to the thousands of 800MHz public safety licenses because they let an ESMR (Nextel) impersonate a cellphone company and build out a network (iDEN) that wasn't compatible with existing users on the band.
It's been close to a decade since this began, lots of hot air and idle threats from Kevin about shutting the craptel system down on June 16th but we all know this isn't going to happen.
So you are going to hang it up? I bet Kevin, Riley and company are eagerly awaiting your surrender of your license while they count their Sprint checks...please get a grip on reality. What you think is a major issue is but a ripple in a large swirling toilet bowl known as our current RF spectrum above 50MHz.
The FCC stopped being in the regulatory agency years ago. Please forward your complaint to danhesse@sprint.com as they are the ones who have primary ownership of the FCC.
I am sure they will add the 145.25 to the long list of outstanding interference complaints..."they're working on it"
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by AD5TD on April 24, 2008
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"Newsflash: the FCC isn't doing a thing to resolve life threatening interference to the thousands of 800MHz public safety licenses because they let an ESMR (Nextel) impersonate a cellphone company and build out a network (iDEN) that wasn't compatible with existing users on the band."
ORLY?
Then why is Nextel spending 12 MILLION DOLLARS to REPLACE all the radios here in Nueces County Texas. They are replacing ALL OF THEM. This is Nation Wide! This little screw up is costing NEXTEL BILLIONS of $$$$.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KB4TPP on April 24, 2008
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AD5TD: Nextel isn't the victim. They are the perpetrator. If any other licensee were allowed to get away with ongoing QRM to public safety (myself included), we would have been stripped of our licenses, fined, equipment confiscated, and thrown in club Fed.
The SCAM PLAN devised by Nextel is just that, a SCAM. Care to discuss the nice windfall of nationwide PCS spectrum Nextel got for their "realignment"? Our systems were working just fine until Mr. Noisy Neighbor moved in.
12mil is drop in the bucket. Rebanding one system can cost triple that. Does Dan sign your checks as well?
There are 22,000 800 systems to go. Wake up and smell the Internet bro.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by N7TRZ on April 24, 2008
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The worst of the whole thing is they're well on the road to repeating the whole mess on 700Mhz. They had the chance to group Public Safety and Commercial well apart from each other, but last I saw 700 was going to be interleaved just like 800, so a cop's radio will be useless within a few blocks from a commercial tower or site. Morons. They could easily have let the commercial users have the Public Safety blocks as they were abandoned due to equipment upgrades, or vice-versa. Many public safety users are almost to the end of their equipment's lifespan anyway. My idea of an ideal scenario is all public safety users on 700 and commercial on 800, or at least each in one solid block regardless where the line is drawn.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by NS6Y_ on April 24, 2008
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Sounds like a job for Andy the Radio Cop! But he's not in your area.....
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by AD5TD on April 25, 2008
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"by KB4TPP on April 24, 2008
AD5TD: Nextel isn't the victim"
First, I ain't your "Bro" Bro.
Second, I never said that Nextel WAS a victim. Public service was a victim of the stupicity of the FCC (for allowing this stupid band plan that put Nextels phones in the same band (inbetween freqs, but VERY close) as the public service. Nextel said it would work and the stupids at the FCC were convinced also.
You posted as if Nextel got off "scott free", that just isn't the case. This will cost them billions of dollars before it's over.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KB4TPP on April 25, 2008
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so who cares, they aren't a victim, they chose their playing field and that's the cost of doing business. McCaw and friends should have gone the PCS route. The FCC isn't the only one to blame AD5TD, they were only acting on their constituents' behalf, Nextel. So how big a check does Dan write you? Please tell us how you sleep at night knowing your employer's system continues to this day to cause interference to thousands of incumbent users of life safety radio systems?
The interleaved spectrum is now worthless. Everyone knows this, and iDEN's days are numbered. The writing is on the wall. It was a bad business decision on their part. My problem with them and the FCC is they only see dollar signs and not the public interest. And when you step on public safety's toes, well, you deserve to get sent to the slammer not allowed to choose your own punishment and then get rewarded.
So how much is that 10MHz on nationwide PCS worth? Alot more than the billions that Nextel has yet to pay to reband our systems. Care to comment on how they stonewall on every turn? Read the latest TA reports? this is a sham scam if there ever was.
Back to the ham who is fighting the cable company, this is more proof of how inept and broken the FCC is these days. And we the people also share some responsibility for choosing those who appointed these people. It's time to give the FCC and enema, don't you agree?
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by AD5TD on April 26, 2008
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Who the hell is this "Dan" person you keep refering to? I don't work in the public sector, I sell instrumentation to the Oil Field.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W4IVW on April 27, 2008
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For those of you that had doubts, I am and have been a paid up in advance ARRL member for quite a few years.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by W4IVW on April 27, 2008
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yes, it's there on 121.2625 ...no S meter reading but it's there and I have known this all along as well as other aircraft frequencies and mentioned it along with pics and audio recordings to the FCC. As someone said in their comments, the FCC reported everything is ok and legal. I don't know as I never saw or heard a report. They must have had access to it. I was only the one of the two amateurs who filed an official complaint with the FCC about this interference.
And yes, the municipal airport is 3 miles from me and the approach path to runway #4 is almost right over my house. Many of the comments made that are an insult to me (which I have earned?)come from folks that have evidently come from where ever they are to see and hear for themselves with their own equipment.Having done so they now can now say that I am in the wrong.
I said it in my article, you don't have to take my word for for what I have stated. Many of the comments and judgements have been made against me without their seeing and hearing for themselves. That's the way it is.
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RE: No One Cares Unless It's Them
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by KN8K on April 27, 2008
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I'M kind of curious why when the Comcast Tech. wanted you to bring your Radio out to test it in the Bucket Truck you didn't want to? Sounds like a case of Chicken Little " the sky is falling". Comcast was trying to help.
I guess you'll have to hitch the house up to a truck and move it out to the middle of a 40acre field where Comcast doesn't have any service. I've seen this posting other places as well. If your trying to discredit Comcast they don't care, they are the largest cable company and have the attitude pay for our service and be happy or go somewhere else. You had a Tech who was trying to help and kept stone-walling him. If you want someone to feel sorry for you by posting all over the internet atleast have the courtesy of posting the truth and not switching forums when the truth comes out!
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by KB7CVH on April 27, 2008
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I did not read every post so it may have been mentioned but I would look for a cable subscriber who also still has a TV antenna connected and is rebroadcasting the entire cable spectrum in this way (fox hunt). Good luck and don't give up!
Mike KB7CVH
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by W6IRE on May 1, 2008
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Thanks for sharing, John. That was very thought provoking.
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by K1CJS on May 3, 2008
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John, You've posted this story here, you've posted it on QRZ, no doubt you've complained elsewhere too. But, as of May 3, I still see your license listed on the QRZ, so you really haven't given up yet.
Cable systems have leakage, you've just got to live with it. Amateur bands and licensees are there, but they aren't moneymakers for the FCC, so they're not going to do too much too fast to answer a single complaint.
Comcast is in my area too. I get massive leakage interference on the output of a repeater, 145.15 mhz, and although there have been many complaints made, the interference just continues. There is a control on your transceiver that can deal with it--its called 'squelch'. Try using it.
I really don't go around telling people to suck it up and go on, but in this case, that's exactly what I'm saying. Either enjoy the beach and endure the kiddies kicking sand all over the place or go home and sulk. The choice is yours.
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by K8XF on May 3, 2008
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Its too bad that W4IVW has to go thru all this trouble. I think some of the problems was his approach to the problem. Do not contact the cable company. Contact the FCC first. And if the FCC drags its feet contact your Congressman and when the Congressman sends a letter to the FCC on your behalf the FCC will get busy. The FCC has no choice. Then see what results the FCC will come up with. And keep bugging them monthly. Your approach was too mild and the parties you are dealing with will not listen to you unless you show some extra power and determination.
SPEAK LOUDLY AND CARRY THE BIGGEST STICK
Good luck
73
Mike, K8XF
Viva CW
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