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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

I See Your Lips Moving...

Don Keith (N4KC) on May 6, 2008
View comments about this article!

I See Your Lips Moving, But…

0x01 graphic

Let's open up that can of worms known as single sideband audio.

Let's don't, though, take off on a diatribe against so-called ESSB—enhanced SSB. I actually enjoy listening to those guys sometimes, even if some of them are occupying a bit more bandwidth than some would like for them to. As long as they are not plopping down on top of somebody else, where's the harm? The bands are wide enough for all of us. And I see nothing wrong with trying to get the best sounding audio one can have, even if it may not be the most efficient way to communicate.

And let's don't jump on stations who deliberately EQ their audio—completely within legal limits but not necessarily achieving a sound you or I find pleasing—all in order to better stand out in the pack. Beauty is in the ear of the beholder. Or something like that.

The point of this article: adjusting our SSB audio so it is the most efficient it can be to communicate the way we want to communicate without interfering with the other guy's right to communicate the way he wants to. That is sort of the Golden Rule of On-air SSB Audio.

Like a lot of things in life, many of today's amateur radio transmitters come equipped with far more capability than many of us can handle. Or, if we have head room on our credit cards, there are all sorts of flashy audio devices we can purchase and hook up. It is like buying a car with the capability of 150 miles per hour on the speedometer when most of us don't have the experience, reflexes, or highways to safely operate a vehicle at anything close to those speeds. That does not stop some of us from trying it if we get the urge. Now, add a rocket booster to that car or some outboard audio processing gear to that radio and let the fun begin!

Allow me to make a statement here and see if you agree. SSB audio should be adjusted so it is the best it can be for whatever task you are attempting to accomplish—with the caveat that it must be legal and that it follows good operating practice, and preferably both. Note that I did not say it should necessarily sound like recording studio quality, or even that adjusted-to-fit-the-job audio should be pleasant to the average ear.

See, if I am attempting to get the dxpedition in East Nowhere to pick my puny little signal out of the pileup, I don't need flat-from-50-to-5000-hertz response and beautiful, harmonious EQ. I need a little thing called “talk power.” And that, my friend, requires some careful adjustment of my modern ham radio rig.

I can crank the audio gain and compression up to “10,” boost the midrange voice frequencies to the top of the pot scale, and scream into the microphone like a lunatic, but that does not necessarily give me maximum talk power. It probably gives me distortion, splatter, lots of snide comments from others in the pile-up, and—maybe most importantly if I really want to land that new country—LESS signal.

Let's talk about a couple of terms (for the newcomers because I know every seasoned ham knows what these things mean, right?).

First, why single sideband? When SSB first began to appear on the amateur bands in the late 1950s-early 1960s, the war between early adopters and the majority AM operators made the “no code” arguments look like a tea party! Oh, it was vicious! However, it did not take long for hams to see the advantages of not wasting power transmitting a big, old whining carrier or utilizing both audio sidebands, each of which carried basically the same information. (Let me hasten to add that there is nothing wrong with using AM today. It's fun, especially if you are reviving some old boat anchor rig. I enjoy listening to AMers, too, and especially those with good sounding audio. I even jump in sometimes with my 25-watt rice box.)

By suppressing the carrier and filtering out one sideband, a station needed only a fraction of the output power to reliably communicate over the same distance with the same signal strength. The reasons for this are beyond the scope of this article as well as my ability to explain it, but the point to grasp here is that, because of the way SSB works, there is more emphasis on how you adjust your audio if you want to fully take advantage of the mode. The peak power you put out is directly determined by your voice, your audio.

0x01 graphic

Now, how about that “Audio Gain” knob or menu setting on your shiny radio? Based on what I just said in the last paragraph, crank that gain to max and you'll be loud, right? Loud equals more power, true? Not necessarily. What you will probably be doing is overdriving a stage or two in the modulation circuit. That not only makes your voice distorted and difficult to understand, but it also causes bad things to happen to the signal you are modulating. You will splatter, causing interference up and down the band. But it may be more distressing to you to realize that you are wasting precious “talk power” transmitting all that splatter and distortion. You are actually being robbed of watts that are tied up trying to transmit all that ugly, unnecessary modulation information you are casting out into the ether.

Again, the reasons for this are beyond this little article and my writing ability, but Google “ssb modulation” or similar, or take a few minutes to read about the subject in the ARRL's Communications Handbook. You need every watt of signal you can get. Don't waste any of it by trying to be too loud!

There's another control there, one called “Compression.” Most radios today offer you the ability to compress the audio that feeds into your radio from your microphone. This is not to be confused with data compression, in which computer files are squeezed into a smaller package. Audio compression as it is typically implemented in ham equipment, works to boost quieter sounds up, bringing them closer to the same level as louder sounds. It actually works to overcome an otherwise pretty nice thing called “dynamic range,” another good term to Google. This compression stuff has a valid purpose. It is designed to make the level of your voice more consistent, making what you are saying more understandable to the operator on the receiving end. Properly set up, the compressor takes advantage of the RF you are emitting and fills it with just the right amount of audio information. Enough to make it more readable. Not so much that you waste power on all that ugliness.

Like the swiftness of your car or a cold beer after work, such an otherwise good thing can be abused. I remember in commercial broadcasting when the battle to be the loudest station on the band made everybody sound like a cement mixer full of anvils. The modulation monitor needle did not rise and fall. It sat there at 100% and merely quivered! I worked on the air at one station with the compressor set so I could hear in my headphones traffic on the street outside the studio, people talking in the lobby, and the receptionist typing on her old manual typewriter, all in addition to the highly entertaining disc jockey patter I was spitting out. I did not dare pause or the listener might have heard some most unpleasant exchanges down the hall in the corporate offices.

This happens on the ham bands, too. In an effort to be loud and communicate, you actually sound abysmally grungy and muddy, and the DX station, for some reason, can't make out your call sign, no matter how clever your phonetics. Plus your nice compressor circuit is sucking up every other background sound it can, just doing its job, making every noise close to the same level as your voice. You've heard stations with the background noise of the amplifier fan boosted until it was almost as loud as what the op was preaching. Either that or he really was operating from a bi-plane crop duster. He drops his pen, it reverberates like a tree falling. Or you can hear the TV from the other side of the house well enough to tell who just got voted off the island.

Now clearly such practices as running too much audio gain or too much compression defeat the stated purpose of enhancing your ability to communicate. If you merely want to be loud, don't care how many other stations you interfere with, are not afraid of having your parenthood questioned by fellow hams, or don't mind getting mail from Official Observers or the FCC, go right ahead and—as one of the members of the legendary rock band Spinal Tap recommended—turn it up to “11.” But just because you can does not mean you should.

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If you do want to efficiently work that DX station, pass traffic without endless repeats and fills, or have guys in your roundtable spontaneously gush about how good your audio sounds, then I have the following recommendations:

  • Read the sections of the handbook and other source material on what is actually happening inside your radio when you speak into the side of the mic with holes in it.

  • Follow the manufacturer's recommendations in the manual for your radio (You remember the manual, don't you? That little booklet you threw away with the box? In most cases, you can download another one on the Internet. But you still need to read it.)

  • Use the radio's monitor function if it has one. What you hear in your headphones may not be exactly what it sounds like on the air, but it is better than nothing at all. If you can get someone to record you off the air, that's good. There are even some Internet sites that allow you to listen to a specific frequency in near real time. One such site is http://www.3819khz.net/listen.htm. Make sure the frequency is clear before you start talking to yourself, though. Do I even need to remind you to identify, too?

  • Listen to what others tell you about how your audio sounds. I know. I know. I've heard guys tell stations they sounded great when it really resembled nothing more than a garbage disposal full of ball bearings. Still, usually, someone will be honest with you. And do the same for others. If somebody is obviously maladjusted, tell them so (in a nice, non-offensive way) and help them hone it, if you can.

  • Work with someone you trust, on the air, adjusting as you go. Everyone's voice is different. Different microphones have different specs. Some mics even allow you to choose different elements for different purposes.

  • If you want to invest in outboard equipment or a better microphone, go ahead, but follow all the suggestions above. Since the first impression most folks will have of you on the air is how your audio sounds, it might be a good thing to invest a little more in being able to tailor it. But this gear is manufactured for a wide variety of potential uses and users. You can really mess up some audio if you don't watch it! By the way, I have heard the cheap, default, throw-away hand mic that comes with the radio sound pretty darn good when properly set up.

  • Develop different sets of parameters, depending on what you need from your transmitter's audio—one setup for DX, another for the 75-meter roundtable.

  • Purge your brain of that “the higher the setting the better” mentality. That's how Icarus staged history's first crash landing (Google “Icarus,” for Pete's sake! What DID you do throughout junior high?)

So that's my bit. Let's all work for a less polluted spectrum and for more efficient communication.

Adjustable gain and compression are nice to have under the hood, but don't run the thing into a tree!

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
I See Your Lips Moving...  
by RFEXPERT on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
The 1st rule for good SSB audio is?
Answer, dont use ESSB.

The second rule for good audio is?
Dont use ESSB.

The 3rd rule for good audio is dont use ESSB.

Its not that the ESSB is bad, it is just that those who dont do it properly just sound like garbage. It so disappointing to hear so many DX stations use this useless bassy sounding audio. You even have these jokers on the 75 meter DX window trying to be heard through static. This is before we talk about the splatter that everyone of these stations generate. The famous Italian on 14.195 is an example of this cruddy horrible sounding bass grumble thats unintelligible garbage audio that every new ham seems to want to mimic. In fact you can always tell how new a ham is to the ham bands by the amount of bass in his or hers audio.

The next group of audio lids are those, who either operate mobile or just came down from the CB band. Their bad habit is turning up the mic gain as if its going too help readability. I hear this so often with mobile who stations cant be heard, "stand by old man i will crank up the mic gain a bit" You also commonly hear it with 100 watt stations who dont have a amp. Its brain dead thinking that splattering half the band out by cranking up the mic gain is going to help readability. Its plain stupid.

The next group of stations are what i call the "needle stickers" These guys typical use amplified microphones or some of the ESSB gear and drive their radios flat out. You will see the S meter sit at a consistent level without dropping in speech pauses or level. Their friends(enemies) normally tell them that they just sound greatm, but all they sound like is good buddy from channel 35 that splatters as much.

The last decade in ham radio has seen the ham bands turn into a mush of bad audio, brought on mostly by the ESSB types. It is now not uncommon to hear the bands full of splatter on a daily basis from the buckshot from these audiophools. Lets get back to the hey day of SSB when everyone ran a decent RF clipper and a radio and microphone with a proper communications audio frequency response.

If your radio cant produce decent audio without you fooling about with audio equipment and equalizers, it belongs in the bin. When you think that toying with audio is a great contribution to the science of communications and advancing the art of ham radio you only deluding yourself. I always find it amusing that all these stations who love this bassy audio always have poor antennas. If they spent as much time adjusting and improving their antennas they would soon learn that the only game in town is the gain game, not the frequency response game.

The quicker this rash called ESSB disappears from the ham bands the better off we all will be. A decent radio should work with a 1 dollar electret microphone and sound good. The Elecraft K3 is an example of such a radio.


 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by VE3TMT on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
"A decent radio should work with a 1 dollar electret microphone and sound good."

I use a $2 computer headset mic from the Dollar Store with a home brew interface on my TS850S and get great reports all the time. Have no trouble breaking pile-ups, when I am on SSB that is. And the audio sounds just as good as when I was using external preamps and EQ's.

Max
VE3TMT
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KG4RUL on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
RFEXPERT Writes:

"The 1st rule for good SSB audio is?
Answer, don't use ESSB.

The second rule for good audio is?
Don't use ESSB.

The 3rd rule for good audio is don't use ESSB."

------------

My response: AMEN!

Just in case anyone doesn't get the point, I suggest the above mantra be chanted two or three times a day.
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by N4CQR on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Ditto!
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W9OY on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
http://www.ronpatrickstuff.com/
 
I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KG8JF on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I don't have the ear for quality audio. Ham radio does not need "quality audio". Just like the old maxim, "enough power to communicate". I think talk power should be subject to the same criterion.

Personally, if I can hear you it is good. If I can't understand you, it is bad. Simplistic, but it works for me.
 
I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KD5SFK on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Great advice. I might add, has anyone out there ever seen professional radio broadcasters in action? You may have noticed that they ALWAYS wear headphones to monitor their own audio quality. Very few hams do the same.
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W7NVQ on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Thank God they haven't figured out how to do this to CW yet...

73, Kelly

P.S.
...Love that Heil DX mic element!
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by K0BG on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I first thought this was starting to be a thumbs up for ESSB. I'm glad I read the whole article.

And, the response about mobile operators using too much microphone gain hit a cord too. There are few folks who do as much mobile work as I do, and I have a few very pat, standard operating habits.

One, I close talk my mic (less than an inch away), and I use as low a mic gain consistent with the design output of the radio. This is to say, 100 watts PEP, be darned what the average is.

Two, I never use compression. If you missed that, I NEVER use compression. If you're stupid enough to do so mobile, don't expect me to answer your CQ. That is if I can understand you're calling CQ.

Listening to a noisy band while mobile can get very irritating in a big hurry. I always adjust the DSP to roll off the highs as much as possible, and I use a lowpass, passive filter in my mobile speaker with a cutoff of 2.1 kHz, adding a layer of effectiveness.

The only problems I see with this article are, there will be a whole bunch of folks who need to read it, but won't as it is an affront to their lack of intelligence. And there will be a few who read all of it, and exclaim, "it ain't me."

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
 
I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W3OZ on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Ok I am going to make this short. It would be like dumping blood to mindless sharks anyway. Ya, Ya, Ya, you are all audio engineers, 50 years working in recording studios etc etc, heard it all. Just listen, just listen for the last time ESSB does not stand for Enhanced Single Side Band. It stands for EXTENDED single side band. Some of us work to make SSB audio better without EXTENDING it. Ok lets hear about IMD, splatter, over modulation if it makes you feel better about sounding like Donald Duck.
 
Enhanced or Extended SSB  
by K0BG on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I think the confusion comes as a result of the definition of enhanced. According to my dictionary that is; to increase, add to, intensify, heighten, magnify, amplify, inflate, strengthen, build up, supplement, augment, boost, raise, lift, elevate, exalt; improve, enrich, complement.

In reality, based on common usage, some of the words in the definition are, in fact, mutually exclusionary, which adds some question whether extended is any better.

The definition of extended is; prolonged, protracted, long-lasting, long-drawn-out, spun out, long, dragged out, strung out, lengthy; informal marathon.

The bottom line, regardless of what the 'E' actually stands for is; precious few ESSB signals are what one would call 'clean'. The definition of clean (unfortunately) is in the eyes of the beholder.

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KE3HO on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
<<< "if it makes you feel better about sounding like Donald Duck." >>>

The only time someone sounds like Donald Duck is when the guy on the receiving end is tuned off frequency. Standard SSB audio (2.4 kHz) sounds just fine *IF* you listen on frequency. If you are off just 10 Hz, it makes a big difference. And it amazes me how many hams there are who can't seem to tune in to a SSB signal. Want proof? Just listen to the Maritime Mobile Service Net, or any other HF SSB net that takes casual check-ins. Every new check-in will be on a slightly different frequency. You will wear out your RIT chasing them around the band.

If you take the time to tune your receive frequency carefully to a SSB signal, the audio is perfectly adequate and does not sound like Donald Duck.

73 - Jim
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KC2RGW on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Let's not forget that a 1.8 filter and the screeching '4' element don't ensure you aren't splattering half the band.

I constantly hear stations with audio so narrow it can cut glass, splattering all over the band because they are hammering their ALC and feeding the dirty signal into a big amp.

20m this past weekend had plenty to choose from.

If you aren't running clean, it doesn't matter what width input you are running with, you are still splattering.

Bad ops are bad ops, they come in all widths of audio.

A friendlier tip, if you are running an older rig with a 2.2 filter in it and listening to someone running 3k, use your IF shift until they sound better. It will make your life a lot easier.
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by G3LBS on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I thought everybody had looked at their output with a two-tone input - you mean to say some people don't?
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by AB0WR on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I am just simply amazed that the ones complaining about ESSB don't even know what it is.

I am just simply amazed that the ones complaining about ESSB don't have the simplest understanding of audio bandwidth and intelligibility based on scientific work done over the past 20 years.

Extending bass response does NOT help short term intelligibility although it can help with long term listening fatigue. It does have, therefore, a time and place for proper use.

Extending treble response, especially when coupled with pre-emphasis, can significantly raise intelligibility in noise. It does have, therefore a time and place for proper use.

Compression, when done correctly, *can* help by raising average power but when it is done by boosting the mic gain it just causes the very problems mentioned in article. It does have, therefore, a time and place for proper use.

tim ab0wr
 
RE: Quackers in Bed  
by K4JSR on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
W3OZ, a fellow OF therefore trustworthy, stated,
"lets hear about IMD, splatter, over modulation if it makes you feel better about sounding like Donald Duck."

Truly, sir. ESSB is not all it is *QUACKED UP* to be.

73, Cal K4JSR c/o The Forget-Me-Not Rest QTH and Old Fart's Farm.
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by K5UJ on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
There was a time when I wasted my time responding to all you ssb audio haters, then I wised up, realizing the ssb audio haters (a.k.a. Greater Than 1500 Hz Bandwidth = Illegal) are like all the other fossilized viewpoint groups, such as the:

"CW Testing Forever,"
"9/11 Truth,"
"Running a Rig Built After 1990 = Illegal,"
"NASA Moon Landing Was a Hoax,"
"Flouride in the Water is Bad,"
"Rig Not Made in USA = Illegal,"
"Use a Resonant Antenna on Every Frequency,"
"Esperanto Universal Language,"
"RF Exposure is Dangerous,"
"The UN is Taking Over,"
"Greater Than 10 Watts PEP = Illegal,"
"The Illuminati are Taking Over,"
"Global Warming is a Hoax"
"Any Operating Activity not DX/Contesting = Illegal"
"Any Rig, Antenna, Amp, Tower, Better Than Mine = Illegal"

and every other ax-to-grind group with which communicating is a complete waste of time, so now my M.O. for dealing with ssb audio haters is: fugettaboudit.
 
RE: Quackers in Bed  
by AK2B on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
If you can plug a mic into your soundcard, download this great little program and get a real-time picture of what processing does to your voice.
http://www.dxatlas.com/VShaper/

Tom, AK2B
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W8ZNX on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
ESSB is simply a way for appliance ops
that can not or do not build or repair
to feel more like real radio ops
bought the rice box
bought the antenna
bought the made up cables
bought the audio boxes

as they crank on the knobs
of their audio junk

asking over and over agn

hows my audio now
hows my audio now
hows my audio now
hows my audio now
hows my audio now
hows my audio now
hows my audio now
hows my audio now
hows my audio now
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KE3HO on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
<<< "I am just simply amazed that the ones complaining about ESSB don't have the simplest understanding of audio bandwidth and intelligibility based on scientific work done over the past 20 years. " >>>

Tim,

If the issue was simply one of intelligibility, then ESSB would have a place when the S/N was marginal. However, the issue is not just intelligibility.

If increasing the audio bandwidth INTO an SSB transmitter by 300 Hz resulted in an increase in RF bandwidth of just 300 Hz, there would be no issue with ESSB. The problem is that many of the ESSB proponents apparently do not understand where their bandwidth-limiting filters are in their transmitter versus where the objectionable IMD products are produced. The problem is that a 300 Hz increase in audio bandwidth into an SSB transmitter results in more like 600 to 900 Hz wider RF bandwidth when you take into account the IM3 and IM5 products. And many of these IM3 and IM5 products fall outside of their intended RF bandwidth. Their friends who are listening with wider receiver IF filters won't hear them, so they say, "My buddy has listened to my signal and says that it is clean". It's the crap that falls outside of their intended bandwidth, stuff that their buddies never hear, that people object to. Therein lies the problem. If proponents of ESSB chose radios with the best available transmitted odd-order IMD performance, they would not cause any problems for anyone. Unfortunately, the rigs that most often get used are not the ones with the best IMD performance, but the one with the easiest to change transmit bandwidth - the ones where you simply change a menu setting and presto, you have wider transmitted audio bandwidth. If you look at the ARRL lab tests of these rigs, you will find that most of them have extremely poor IMD performance. In fact, many of these rigs have among the worst IMD performance of any ham rig produced. If the proponents of ESSB stressed the use of rigs with the best available transmitted IMD performance, then there would not be a lot of trash spewing out several kHz on both sides of their intended bandwidth.

Don't try to label me an "ESSB hater". I have nothing against ESSB in principal. To each his own. If ESSB floats your boat, good for you. My problem is when guys start promoting the use of ESSB with rigs that have the worst available transmitted IMD performance out there. If I had a rig with adequately good transmitted IMD performance, I might try playing around with ESSB myself. But I would never try it with a rig that had crappy IMD performance.

73 - Jim
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KB1NCP on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I see lots of opinions on the audio. I feel that the radio hobby has enough room for everyone to tinker with what they like. The majority of guys prefer standard 2.1 to 2.9 communications grade audio, that's fine. But why do the majority feel that a better mic or EQ ing or whatever, is detrimental? I don't observe any splatter from these guy's. I do from operators who run all jacked up calling cq contest. The fact of the matter is if you don't like what you hear, turn the VFO. Why does one type of operator have to pick on the other? Some guys want to get the best antennas, some amps, or both, What gives anyone the right to decide what is the best for all. Some contesters run way over legal limit power. Just talk to techs who do the repaire work on the equipment. So I ask why is it o.k to run all jacked up for contesting but not ok for some guys who prefer a different style of communicating. Now the Code or no code debate has ended this seems to be the it's replacement. You might someday save some money from that next amp and get a radio that will let you hear some fidelity. If you don't have a hearing problem, you might be surprised. Come on... plenty of room for all to play.
73 Bill kb1ncp
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by G0TIY on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
IT'S A HOBBY RIGHT?
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by M3-FJU on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
why is it that people that dont do a part of the hobby, seem to be the frist to run it down,to me its a bit like the yaesu user that goes on how bad kenwood or icom radios and yet they have never had one of the other sets,i dont yet do essb/hifi audio, but i will be,its great to rx, unlike the so called dx audio, i feel some people like to be stuck in the past and dont like change,as a lot of the post say you dont have to use big bandwithed, iv heard a lot of essb audio on most of the bands, and a few will splatter a bit, just as some who use dx type audio do, so why is it they dont get run down, back in the 50's did you all run down ssb opps co's it wastent am,over here in the uk its the same with so called band ploice running people down co's they dont like someones audio,but are happy to run well above the set power output and splatter all over the band,why do you all go on about essb audio, its not like you will stop any one doing it. why dont you guys use your radio the way you like and let others do the same, the more and more people run down essb audio the more i want to do it, i hate being told i cant do something by people who dont have any right to do so,and dont use the bandwithd as your right to do so.just admit it, you dont like it and turn the vfo, if it wasent for the people in the hobby that try diffrent things, this this hobby would die a slow death, live and let live, injoy the radio the way you want to, not the way others tell you to.....
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by NO9E on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
There are many blanket statements.

Did anybody notice differences between different processors? They can be at AF or RF and clippers or compressors. Good RF clippers do wonders. Try TS-830 or TS-850 with processor on and off. Unless the processor is really cranked up, the only difference is in loudness. The Kenwoods have a wide range clipper + good ALC. Try Yaesu 1000 Mark V series. With proc on, your signal is much louder, but in good conditions everyone will ask it to be turned off. The Yaesus seem to have clippers with less range, agressive ALC, and an extra equalization. Try the proc in FT100 or IC735 and everyone will ask you to turn the proc off. Both use audio processors with not that good audio to begin with. Mixed story with IC-7000.

ESSB may be 3 KHz or 4 KHz. 3 KHz is fine especially if audio is well equalized; some really sound wonderful. Some signals have way too many basses that makes them hard to tune and copy unless one filters those basses off (and perhaps 90% of power).

The devil is in the details. Claiming that all processors are bad are like claiming that all 4-cylinder cars are lousy (with Chevy Cavalier in mind).

If one wants to play with audio, there is a program previously reviewed here called the voice shaper at http://www.dxatlas.com/VShaper/. It can make a $2 microphone sound like a $50 microphone (or 5 switchable $50 microphones) and a cheap radio like a radio a few times more expensive. Its sound back feature allows to listen to the effect of an equalization or clipping. Probably one can also reduce IMD by setting the audio level so that ALC barely moves. With this program one can see that 10db of processing just makes the signal louder and does not introduce anything special.
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by AK2B on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Most of the ESSB guys I hear on the east coast are kind of comical. I call them the “Ted Baxter Boys”. Everyone seems to spend tremendous amounts of money to improve their voice quality and when they think they have made a positive difference they check in with the head “Over, Over” guy for his approval. Most of them sound pretty darn good. Some have a lot to learn. None-the-less, they cause little harm and if they’re having fun, why should I care? My rig came with a VFO.

Tom, AK2B
 
I See Your Lips Moving...  
by G0GQK on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Many years ago a friend purchased for me a small microphone from an ex military store for sixty pence. A recording was made of me in the US and played back and it was equally as good as one of those sold by that famous US microphone company. For DX work what is required is a sharp audio which has clarity and able to cut through the noise. Bassy audio just won't make it, it probably sounds excellent a hundred miles away, but it may not make it the 3,500 miles to Europe.

G0GQK
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by SP5QIP on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
********Bassy audio just won't make it, it probably sounds excellent a hundred miles away, but it may not make it the 3,500 miles to Europe.********
Never heard on 14.178? Get the antennas.
Mike
 
I See Your Lips Moving...  
by K6ZSR on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I humbly & dutifully submit the following:

Part 97.3
(a)(4) Amateur service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.

And Further:


FCC says no to bandwidth limit request

The FCC has denied petition for rulemaking filed by Michael D. Lonneke and Melvin J. Ladisky (Petitioners) seeking to amend Part 97 of the Commission’s rules to provide that amateur radio stations transmitting a single sideband (SSB) emission, (emission type J3E ), may not occupy more than 2.8 KHz bandwidth on amateur frequencies below 28.8 MHz, and that amateur radio stations transmitting an amplitude modulated (AM) emission, (emission type A3E ), may not occupy more than 5.6 KHz bandwidth on amateur frequencies below 28.8 MHz.

Before the
Federal Communications Commission
Washington, D.C. 20554



In the Matter of


Rulemaking under Part 97 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended to Establish Technical Standards for Certain Amateur Radio Telephony Transmissions )
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RM-10740



ORDER


Adopted: November 24, 2004 Released: November 24, 2004


By the Chief, Public Safety and Critical Infrastructure Division, Wireless Telecommunications Bureau:


1. In this Order, we deny a petition for rulemaking filed by Michael D. Lonneke and Melvin J. Ladisky (Petitioners) seeking to amend Part 97 of the Commission’s rules to provide that amateur radio stations transmitting a single sideband (SSB) emission, (emission type J3E ), may not occupy more than 2.8 KHz bandwidth on amateur frequencies below 28.8 MHz, and that amateur radio stations transmitting an amplitude modulated (AM) emission, (emission type A3E ), may not occupy more than 5.6 KHz bandwidth on amateur frequencies below 28.8 MHz. For reasons discussed, herein we deny Petitioners’ request.
I. BACKGROUND
2. Commission rules define “Amateur Service” as a “radio-communications service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateur radio operators. . . .” Amateur service has a fundamental purpose reflected in the principles of recognition and enhancement of the value of amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communications service; continuation and extension of the amateurs’ proven ability to contribute to the advancement of radio art; expansion of the existing reservoir of trained operators, technicians, and electronic experts; and continuation of the amateur’s unique ability to enhance international goodwill.
3. The Amateur Radio Service is allocated spectrum that must be shared in a cooperative manner by literally thousands of individual stations. Section 97.101 of the Commission’s rules sets forth the general standards that amateur stations must follow; they include the basic principle that all frequencies are to be shared; no frequency can be assigned for the exclusive use of any station. Amateur service licensees and amateur station control operators are required to cooperate in selecting frequencies and in making the most effective use of the amateur service frequencies. Shared use and cooperation by licensees allow the amateur service community to accommodate the widely varied operating interests of licensees and the specific operating activities that a station or group of stations wishes to engage in, without explicit regulation.
4. Voluntary band planning allows amateur stations that desire to pursue different operating activities to pursue these activities by dividing or segmenting the amateur service spectrum. Voluntary band planning also allows the amateur service community the flexibility to “reallocate” the amateur service spectrum among operating interests as new operating interests and technologies emerge or operating interests and technologies fall into disfavor.
5. Section 97.101(d) of the Commission’s rules states that “[n]o amateur [service] operator shall willfully or maliciously interfere with or cause interference to any radio communication or signal.” All amateur service operators are required to ensure that their stations conform to the Commission’s rules and that they operate “in accordance with good engineering and good amateur practice.” The Commission's long-standing role in amateur operation frequency utilization generally has been limited to establishing the types of emission that can be transmitted in different frequency segments.
II. DISCUSSION
6. On May 27, 2003, Petitioners filed a Petition for Rulemaking, requesting that the Commission amend Part 97 of its rules, to provide that amateur stations transmitting emission type J3E not be authorized to occupy more than 2.8 KHz bandwidth on amateur frequencies below 28.8 MHz, and that amateur stations transmitting emission type A3E not be authorized to occupy more than 5.6 KHz bandwidth on amateur frequencies below 28.8 MHz. Petitioners indicate that within the last few years, a group of amateur radio operators has cast aside the de facto SSB signal width of approximately 3 KHz on the high-frequency bands, and has purposefully adjusted or misadjusted their equipment to transmit an emission that occupies more bandwidth than necessary. Petitioners refer to this practice as purposeful “splattering” by this particular group, in an effort to gain more “elbow room” during international radio contests on a crowded band. Petitioners also indicate that another group of amateur radio operators has begun experimenting with transmitting “high-fidelity” audio, in order to simulate a sound usually heard on the FM broadcast band.
7. Petitioners further indicate that letters sent from the Commission’s Enforcement Bureau to several amateur licensees concerning similar subject matter, failed to articulate a standard for SSB transmission bandwidth. Petitioners therefore state that they are requesting that the Commission “establish SSB bandwidth standards, de jure, . . . in order to remove the ambiguity of the Commission’s Rules and to provide a clear basis for amateur practice and enforcement action when it is required.” Petitioners argue that this relief is necessary in order to protect responsible amateur operators who use “good amateur practice” from the “opprobrious and intentional actions” typical of groups described in its Petition. Petitioners contend that, unless this problem is alleviated, the “capacity of the radiotelephony bands will be reduced, perhaps to the point of emergency communications being hampered or made impossible by “splatter” from broad and overmodulated stations.”
8. The Commission sought comment on the Petition on June 26, 2003. Numerous comments were filed, the majority of which oppose the Petition on various grounds. Some generally maintain that Part 97 of the Commission’s rules adequately addresses bandwidth limitations by requiring that amateur transmissions not occupy more bandwidth than necessary for the information rate, and that emission type be transmitted in accordance with good amateur practice. A number of the commenters who oppose the Petition submit that the regulated amendment of the Commission rules would not only be unjustified, but would also have a potentially adverse effect on the Amateur Radio Service. Commenters opposing the Petition also note that the Petitioners mention only two groups of amateur radio operators -- an indication that the Petitioners’ claims are not representative of the amateur service community generally. Commenters opposing the Petition also suggest that, if the Petitioners proposals were adopted, enforcement of bandwidth limitations would be unmanageable, and that restriction of emissions to specific bandwidths could hamper future development of new transmission methods and technologies. Additionally, some note that it is not necessary to include a restrictive bandwidth for AM emissions since the Petitioners do not acknowledge in the Petition a particular problem with AM stations.
9. We have carefully considered all comments filed, including comments filed in support of the Petition, and some alternative proposals. We conclude that Petitioners’ request for an amendment of our rules is inconsistent with the Commission’s objective of encouraging the experimental aspects of amateur radio service. The Petition also fails to demonstrate that a deviation from the Commission’s longstanding practice of allowing operating flexibility within the amateur service community -- is either warranted or necessary. In this regard, we note that most operators use the amateur service spectrum in a manner consistent with the basic purpose of the amateur service. Further, we believe that our existing rules -- including the provisions that no amateur station transmission shall occupy more bandwidth than necessary for the information rate and emission type being transmitted, in accordance with good amateur practice, and that emissions outside the necessary bandwidth must not cause interference to operations on adjacent frequencies -- are adequate to address any noncompliant practices by amateur operators.
10. Regarding Petitioner’s request that amateur stations transmitting emission type A3E not be authorized to occupy more than 5.6 KHz bandwidth on amateur frequencies below 28.8 MHz, we agree with commenters who note Petitioners have not demonstrated there to be a particular problem with stations that transmit AM emissions. Moreover, the Commission has previously declined to restrict bandwidth for AM because to do so would be inconsistent with the basic purpose of amateur service and our desire to offer amateur operators the opportunity to experiment with various types.
11. We continue to encourage amateur operators to act in good faith in the exercise of their operations as required by Section 97.101(d) of the Commission’s rules, which provides that no amateur operator shall willfully or maliciously interfere with or cause interference to any radio communication or signal. The Commission’s Enforcement Bureau will continue to monitor nonconforming activities of operators not abiding by the Commission rules through its complaint process. In instances of willful and malicious interference, the Enforcement Bureau will not hesitate to take appropriate action. In sum, we are not persuaded by Petitioner’s claims that bandwidth restrictions are necessary, and, therefore, deny the Petition.
III. ORDERING CLAUSES
12. IT IS ORDERED that the Petition for Rulemaking, RM-10740, submitted by Michael D. Lonneke and Melvin J. Ladisky on May 27, 2003, IS DENIED.
13. This action is taken under delegated authority pursuant to Sections 0.131 and 0.331 of the Commission’s Rules, 47 C.F.R. §§ 0.131, 0.331.


FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION



Michael J. Wilhelm
Chief, Public Safety and Critical Infrastructure Division
Wireless Telecommunications Bureau

LIST OF COMMENTING PARTIES

Ian E. Abbott
Frank Aguilar, Jr.
Arden W. Allen, KB6NAX
Manuel R. Alonso
John M. Anning
David M. Antler
Robert L. Atkinson
Nick Balsamo, KG2IR
Ken Barber
Jeffrey E. Barnard, KA1OGM
John P. Basilotto
Jeffery Lee Belknap
Arthur W. Bell
Mark S. Bell
Albert L. Bergren
Robert Blacka
David M. Boehner
Brian E. Brachel
George A. Brock-Fisher, K1KP
Dan Brown
Gregory A. Buchanan, WB9DNZ
Todd Buiten
Wiley L. Bunce III
Robert Callahan, W1QWT
Duncan Cameron
Lee F. Carroll, N2UDF
Robert Casey
Thomas T. Cathley, K1JJ
Bob Cave, KW4CQ
Thomas Chambers
Donald B. Chester
Julius B. Chiller Jr., WD8BIL
Bonnie Crystal
William G. Cooper
Paul S. Courson, WA3VJB
Philip A Covington
Brian L. Crow
J. Franklin Dayton
Alan Davis
John Dewey
Larry E. Dodd
John Ellis
Yves A. Feder, W1UX
Frank W. Fisher
Don Flenner
David S. Forsman
James R. Forgione
Steven J. Fraasch
Mark Francis
Dale Gagnon
Philip E. Galasso, KZPG
Ruben Gonzalez, Jr.
Paul R. Goodman
George, ABZKC
Ron Grandmaison
Martin P. Granica
Barry J. Griffin
Anthony D. Grogan
Marc A. Guitard
Horace W. Hall
Thomas Hamilton
James T. Hanlon
Charles W. Heard
Bob Heil, K9EID
William O. Hooper
Andrew E. Howard, Sr.
David Humbertson.
William D. Hummer
Patricvk Jankowiak
Gert E. Janssens, K5WW
Dale M. Johnson
Roger D. Johnson
Jimmy J. Jones
Julius Jones
Richard Kalt, W1FYI
Anthony Kahn
Richard J. Kessler
Edward Keyes
Melvin J. Ladisky
W. Edwin Lambert, Jr
Ashley Lane
Nicholaus E. Leggett
Jeffrey Lehmann
Seymour Lesonsky
Brian Levy
B. Scott Lovell
Michael D. Lonneke et al.
John T. M. Lyles
Frank A. Lynch
James MacDonald, W98MAQ
John R. MacDougall
David L. Maudlin
Victor M. Magana
Frank Materiale
David McDaniel
Robert E. McGraw, K4TAX
Brian McIntosh
Peter C. McNulty, WA1SOV
Matthew F. Morris
Gerald J. Mehrab
David P. Metzger
Robert Mitilieri
Tom Moore, N1OGC
Donald Morton
T. Lynn Neece, KB6OKS
Philip Neidlinger
Greg Nolan
Roy H. Norris, III
David A. Olsen
James Olson
Kenneth Parker
William M. Pasternak
David W. Payne, KA2J
Ronald L. Phoenix
Art Pightling
Thomas F. Poland
David Pope
David B. Popkin
George Pritchard, AB2KC
Thorsten C. Prutz
C. Richard Pumphrey
Jayson Quilantan
Richard Raide
William Ramsey
Michael J. Rauchle, KA7THA
Ronald G. Reams
Dale E. Reich
Marvin Richardson
Larry Robison
Thomas A. Rounds
William E. Sabin
Don Saladin
Michael Sawyer
Martin Shapiro
Robert E. Sheppard
Paul L. Schmidt
Gordon Schlesinger
Robert Sherwood
Chris O. Sierra
Steven D. Sims
Douglas T. Smith, Editorial Services
Charles Stealey
Norm Stetson, W1GYY
David L. Stinson
Bruce E. Stock
Laurence M. Szendrei
Paul Tabatschkow, N3UD
Jacob N. Thomas
Robert Tiller
Herbert J. Ulrich, Jr., Ph.D., K2VH
Sundee M. Vendiver
Michael A. Vlasich
Ralph C. Warlow
Larry M. Wassman, WCOZ
James E. Watts
Anthony Whitmore, NOPG
Jim Wilson
Michael K. Wingfield
Terry J. Yoder
Grant Youngman
William E. Zeisler
Peter C. Zilliox
Glen W. Zook
This FCC information was compiled by: By wa0tda - Date: 2004-11-24 13:42:49
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by N3JI on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
QUOTE: W8ZNX on May 6, 2008
"ESSB is simply a way for appliance ops
that can not or do not build or repair
to feel more like real radio ops
bought the rice box
bought the antenna
bought the made up cables
bought the audio boxes

as they crank on the knobs
of their audio junk"
-------------------------------

Wow are you completely mis-informed!! I built every audio/RF cable in my shack, including all RFI suppression (Ferrite & bypass caps). I tore into my "ricebox" and modified the boards (in the receiver path) for a very flat, low noise 20-6k Receive BW, and I mod'ed my DSP so I could directly feed my audio chain to it (through a balanced-to-unbalanced audio transformer, which I also built into a custom enclosure). My antennas are all hand-built by me, except for my Hy-Gain Beam, which worked perfectly on all four bands when I put it together the first time.

I have re-built or repaired myself every rig I own currently. The only one I didn't repair myself was a 2m/440 rig that was still in warranty. I have rebuilt, modified, or repaired rigs made in the 40s to my IC-7000.

If *you* think it's so easy to "slap some audio boxes together" and connect them to a rig, try it sometime. It's not at all what you think. Doing that cleanly and without RFI is a real challenge. Not to mention the receive audio path. Those of us that do this spend as much or more time/money on getting the receive audio a perfect representation of what's being transmitted. If you think that's easy too, you're seriously mistaken.

Before you throw out blanket statements like that, you should at least look into what you're commenting about. "That way, nobody has to look foolish" (quoting a certain green lizard in a certain insurance commercial).

Joe, N3JI
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W4CNG on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Enough of this, all has been said in MANY posts here and around. There are those who believe in one side or another, I believe in one of the two sides, and know the difference betweeen the two. I move my lips and say what I mean, including processing, and have many that hear and respond to what I am sending in a positive mannner.
Good Luck with this one.
Steve W4CNG running eSSB.
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by WD0CT on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
rfexpert says: The quicker this rash called ESSB disappears from the ham bands the better off we all will be. A decent radio should work with a 1 dollar electret microphone and sound good. The Elecraft K3 is an example of such a radio.

What we don't need is a bunch of the things on the ham bands. Check the qst test for the transmit intermod specs on this dirty transmitter.
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by WD0CT on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
w8znx: "ESSB is simply a way for appliance ops
that can not or do not build or repair
to feel more like real radio ops
bought the rice box
bought the antenna
bought the made up cables
bought the audio boxes

as they crank on the knobs
of their audio junk

asking over and over agn

hows my audio now"

You know better than to make blanket ignorant statements. This certainly has zero credibility.
 
I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KE4ZHN on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
This subject has been beaten to death but I'll toss in my two cents anyway. Several of my ham buds have tried or still run ESSB. One used to splatter worse than some of your screw drivered 11mtr. rigs and thought he had the best audio on the band. One tried every combination known to man and finally all but gave up on it and just runs a simple station now and sounds as good as he ever did. A couple more have tried all sorts of rigs, mikes Eq's and audio toys only to endlessly chase settings and turn knobs till they were blue in the face from asking "How do I sound now?". Only one of them consistently sounds good running a rack of gear but its no easy task for him either. He takes great care in his set up and sounds great. However, hes not constantly fiddling with knobs and running ridiculously wide filters to get his sound. He also spends a lot of time off the air adjusting his equipment when he makes a change so hes not pestering everyone for constant audio checks.

I dabbled a little with it myself several years ago and quickly tired of the knob twiddling and RFI suppression issues. Today, I run an Icom 756Pro with a studio mike plugged straight into the mike jack and it sounds very good for what it is and I dont have to constantly fiddle with settings. I dont see anything wrong with ESSB provided the operator knows what hes doing and isnt splattering half the band for an ego trip. Taking the time and effort to clean up your sound is fine within reason. The problem is, some have the more is better attitude or an ego twice the size of their backside and feel that you have to be 6kc wide on ssb to sound good and to hell with their neighbors on the band.

These are the clowns that ruined it for the experimenters. On the other hand, Ive had just as many if not more nights on the air where some idiot running a 2.4k filter stock rig with his mike gain and processor wide open splatters more than the audio guy running external gear. I dont enjoy listening to tin can hand mike 2.4k nasally audio all night myself, but I also dont enjoy coping with buckshot from 6 or more kc away from some egomaniac moron trying to emulate VOA on ssb. In moderation, tweaking your sound can make for much more enjoyable rag chewing and yes even dxing. Im not sure I buy the argument that piercing, screechy Heil #4 so called DX audio punches through any better than well balanced audio. Listen to the next contest. Its like listening to 50,000 tortured cats screaming in pain. Yuck!
 
I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KX0R on May 6, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Don,

Thanks for such a well-written and thoughtful article. This is one of the best pieces I've read here.

Unfortunately many hams have never seen SSB on a spectrum analyzer, and they have trouble appreciating what happens when the controls are advanced too high. Linear amplifiers become nonlinear mixers, and the junk that comes out spreads over a very wide bandwidth. The math is complex, but the results sound horrible whether you understand what's happening or not.

I wouldn't be surprised if future rigs have enough DSP processing that ugly signals are corrected or controlled, and the distortion products are eliminated.

Or perhaps digital audio will prevail, and perhaps it will be digitally processed in DSP receivers to sound great in spite of ionospheric effects.

Meanwhile let's work to generate clean, crisp signals we can be proud of.

Moderation is such a cool idea....

73,
KX0R
 
I See Your Lips Moving...  
by K9CTB on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks for a great article, Don. IMHO, "essb" as it is called is another method for hams to do what they do best - experiment! I can remember when I first got my license, we experimented with different mics and tried our best to get the best-sounding audio we could. It was fun.

I guess essb is no different. I've never had the urge to try it myself, but the article is very good and I know more than I did before I read it.

Nowadays, when I have a SSB QSO, I simply want to stay in compliance with Part 97, as well as allowing the guy on the other end to understand me without a great deal of effort. If I can understand him to the same degree, I'm happy.

73 de Neil
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by K5YF on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Well written articulate article Don. Thanks for submitting it. It reminded me to test my latest station on SSB and set it properly.
------------------------

When listening to a wider signal than your rig can capture in the passband, its going to sound bad. Kind of like having the Noise Blanker on while listening to AM. Not pretty. That might explain some of the complaints here. Certainly some of the comments are just trolling.

I don't do eSSB because it "ain't my bag" but its legal and some folks think its fun. If you don't like it go cry in your pudding. Nobody is forcing you to keep listening.

I can't stand the sound of the really narrow punchy SSB (should we call it dxSSB? folks get so stuck on labels) I just turn the VFO and its gone. Wonder why I ID at the end of every HF SSB transmission? If I hear something I don't want to hear -- I spin the knob and never have to worry about whether I have identified my station properly.

Which brings us to this thread -- If the words and opinions here bring you heartache, click the X to close your browser. Nobody is forcing you to read it.

73 -Brandon
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by N8PVW on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
First,thanks for a very interesting article. I always try to run my station as cleanly as possible. That includes following all of the rules and regs to the letter of the law. While I don't like splatter, lousey audio quality or off frequency signals as much as the next guy, what concerns me more are all of the potty mouths, and hate mongers on the bands and off. If you want to know why we can not attract intelligent, young men and women to the hobby just start at the top and read down. It's supposed to be "ham" radio not hate radio. I also love the attitude that if you can't strip every component out of your equipment and then put it back together again blindfolded and if you don't own $60,000 in test equipment you should not be in the hobby either. I listened to a guy the other night 20M sit and rip into no code hams for over an hour. Not once did he ID during the process. Was he doing this while pounding brass? Nope, he was SSB. And his audio sounded like garbage. He was obviously overdriving his PA to the max and the guy he was talking to was only about 20 miles away. Some of these post remind me of the genius who made the statement "I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong".
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by K4PDM on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I understand that the bassy-audio types are legal and I support their right to experiment with their audio as long as they are not causing interference.

However, my personal opinion is that it sounds awful. I hope the next time that I am in QSO with someone with all that unpleasant bass, I tell them how bad I think it sounds. Then I can say, "But don't worry about it, I can filter it out."

But I'm too nice to do that, although I'm sure they would not hesitate to tell me that I was "tinny" or sounding like a telephone.
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KA4KOE on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
ESSB users are bad. They must die.

CW ops are bad (I'm one). They must die too.

Contestors are poison. They eat up the bands every weekend during everyone else's fun time. Tar and feather the whole lot. Then they die too.

QRP operators are bad. They make us crank our AF gains up till the noise hurts our ears. Give them banishment to 11 meters for 20 years.

Old f***s like Cal, K4JSR, who pummel us with bad puns, jokes, limericks, etc., and otherwise annoy us....off to the retirement home/euthanasia hotel for them....and no outside antennas are allowed, btw.

High power operators are bad. They are not "green friendly" and contribute to global warming. They must die.

ARRL members are mindless lemmings following the commands of the ham elite in Newington, CT. As they are vermin, they must be exterminated.

Non-ARRL members are non-conformists who do not tow the party line, are therefore counterrevolutionary, and must die.

Homebrew ops are emitting lead solder fumes into the environment and must die, if the fumes haven't already made them mad.

Appliance operators are bad because they are idiots and deserve to die anyway.

Anyone can b***h about someone else's interests.

We are all destined for dirt nap time, so be happy, lighten up, put up with Cal, K4JSR, and don't become a Dead Electrical Dude too soon.

:)

FEELEEP
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W6TH on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
.
I See Your Lips Moving...Post is perfect, just around the nomination time.

When I want to listen to good quality radio transmissions I listen to the AM boys. When I want to listen to the signals with the audio punch, I listen to the sidewinder.

When I want to relax and enjoy my radio, I listen to the CW boys, now, that is what I call hi fidelity communications.

While you are at it fellows, try hooking you bass reflex speaker to your crystal set.

W6TH

.:
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by G6NJR on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
there is NO NEED AT ALL for SSB Audio to be as wide as the ESSB brigade like it causes untold hassles I also by the way think there should be an international limit of 400 Watts RF INTO the Antenna system whatever that system may be up to certain limits of height and lenght or the whole world will become on big slice of Italian Radio stations with no control at all typical is the afore mentioned 14.195 merchant by the way why has no one complained to his national body and at least tried to get him taken off the air

Pete .
 
RE:Did You Feel Your Lips Move?  
by K4JSR on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-lep sed, "Old f***s like Cal, K4JSR, who pummel us with bad puns, jokes, limericks, etc., and otherwise annoy us....off to the retirement home/euthanasia hotel for them....and no outside antennas are allowed, btw."

And another fellow, by the name of Steve, W4CNG, sed
"I move my lips and say what I mean, including processing, and have many that hear and respond to what I am sending in a positive mannner."

Well, I have heard and talked to both of you gentlepersons, in person and on the air, and can say that you sound more like yourselves now than you have ever sounded before! Trust me!

Both of you are jealous, though. The Forget-Me-Not Rest QTH and Old Farts Farm does not have any CCRs!
(Unlike some places I could mention. AHEM!)
As far as euthanasia goes, when have either of you eaten at the luxurious dining facilities here?
(BELCH!)
Instead of worrying about audio transmission everyone should be glad they haven't developed radio-smellophony! Just think of what my signal would be like after preparing for a hamfest!! Especially after a stale beer and a Anchovy, pickled egg, dried bean, Waffle House Potatos, garlic and habenero pepper
pizza!!! That almost melts my trusty old D-104!

BYE BYE, now-- Y'all play nice, ya heah?
73, Cal K4JSR Free running outgasser

 
RE:Did You Feel Your Lips Move?  
by KA4KOE on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Cal,

It sounds like you are having too many "quadruple bypass" specials at the local greasy spoon.

PAN
 
RE:"quadruple bypass"  
by K4JSR on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
BRAP! FIZZZZ! GURGLE!! RUMBLE! FIZZ! BRAP!

PAN, why would you assume that?

Be careful down there. There is a strong wind from
the NNW!!! :-@

LIONS, TIGERS, BEARS and BYPASSES, Oh, MI!
Here's lookin' atcha with those old "Doll Eyes"!!

Just more ambience for the hamfests! :-D

You know me, Feeeeeeeeee-lep. Lividity and let lividity. Those are just part of the rigors of mortis!

By the way, I did enjoy the article.
<HIGHJACK MODE>> OFF! :)
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by K4LVR on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Um, hey OZ:

Hows' come when I tune across your signal on 20 I can punch the AM mode button on my receiver and still understand what your are sayin? (and, BTW, it aint my receiver, either).

Or hear a runblin' noise if I switch to LSB on the other side of the carrier?

Just wonderin'....

The Tin Man.
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W4LGH on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
You know, everyone wants to pick on ESSB. ESSB is just another facit of the hobby. As stated there is plenty of room for everyone. Most of the ESSB'er stay down at the low end of the extra band, away from everyone else.

We all know that ESSB is NOT the best audio for working DX. However a little know secret to break into pileups is to go off frequency a tad. That will really get their attention, not to mention the higher pitched audio is a lot more punchy. It is also easy to do and once connected, you can come back on freq.

Have fun playing radio, thats the most important part.
73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by N7YA on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Heres an excellent solution for those who dont like ESSB, dont use it.

I dont have any interest in ESSB, Winlink, repeaters or any other controversial ham radio medium...but so far, nobody has told me i have to quit DXing, using CW, contesting or using regular ssb...so im cool with everyone elses choice of enjoyment. Besides, i dont think it will screw up my conversation on air any worse than the guy woth normal SSB 5-10 kc up using a kilowatt...splatter is still splatter. You know what i did? i simply learned to be a better listener to pull the signals out of the noise, in turn its helped me to be a better ham and certainly a better DXer. We all have room to be better at our particular fields of interest, wouldnt you agree?

Really now guys, its not that big of a deal...use it if you like, the more the merrier in my opinion.

73...Adam, N7YA
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W4CNG on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Cal, K4JSR needs to get his Drake Twins on the same TX/RX frequency (read that Zero Beat but hard to do on my signal) and then he would hear the best Audio Reproduction of my voice local and over the air. BTW, I am still running a full KW output into my Attic Antennas, and the attic is not on fire!!!!

Steve W4CNG
Old School S.W.A.T. First Class Radiotelephone.....
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by K4FLH on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I'm a professional soundman. I've been in the business mixing F.O.H.and monitors since the 70's. And in my opinion,from what I've heard on the bands,I would not want to sound like 90% of the staions I hear boasting that they are tayloring their aduio with outboard gear.
First of all these guys are boosting frequencies especially the low mids. Got news for you sparky boosting causes distortion.

If you want to run an eq use a bell curve to start with, with the cut at about 6-9 db at 1kHz and rising equally on both sides till you reach no cut at 315 Hz on the low side and 3.15 kHz on the high side.You will have to increase the gain a bit to get back volume but you'll have a smooth taylored sound and no chance of distortion.

Think of eq like this, cutting a particular frequency is generally more effective than boosting other frequencies and is less likely to distort. There are several technical reasons for this, but a simple thing to bear in mind is that the peaks stand out, and are therefore more noticeable (imagine a level floor - the theoretical ideal - and think of the difference between stepping on a nail and stepping on a nail-shaped dent in it). Taking out the peaks (cut) will have more useful effect (and is easier) than trying to fill the holes (boost).

If you're going to do it do it right!
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by K4FLH on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
This is in the form of a PS to my earlier post

If you use a bell curve and don't boost you'll stay in the band width!

If you're going to do it, do it right!
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W3OZ on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
No idea Tin man, just a stock Pro III with a box to lower the fan noise and a mic that lets my normal voice go. Nothing special here. Come on 14.178 and lets talk about it and I can run a SA on you and maybe we can find the problem. I can't even get it out past 2.8KHz maybe you can help me. OZ
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W3OZ on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
K4LVR Tin man, why is it that when I look your call up on QRZ and the FCC database I find nothing listed for that call even though you have used it many times before? Us OOs like to know things like that and so does the FCC.
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W7ETA on May 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks for a well written article. Great prose.

Sorta hard to understand what many of the posts have to do with the article.

When I hear awful audio, I just keep tuning; same for RTTY, slow scan, and AM.

73
Bob
 
RE: K4JSR needs to get his Drake Twins on the same  
by K4JSR on May 8, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Steve, You are showing our ages! I haven't had my
Drake Twins since 1979!
Why would I want to "zero beat" your signal anyway?
I always thought that you sounded like Aubrey Morris
of WSB fame! :)
Notice that I did not say Donald Duck! :D

I did drive by your house last week and noticed that while your attic was indeed not on fire, your roof shingles looked like charcoal briquets. That's what
CCR stands for--CharCoal Roofs!!

Are you still "SPRNTING"? After all, you are a grampaw!

I wish I had my Drake twins back. They were fun to operate

73, See ya at the ARC Hamfest?
Cal K4JSR
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by N9XY on May 8, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
TO: W3OZ

Relax. K4LVR is now W4LT.

Its probably too much trouble to change the eHam user logon ID... so he kept his old call. No mystery there.

73
Michael
N9XY
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W4VR on May 8, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Good advice, but your article was a little too long!
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W3OZ on May 8, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
TO: W3OZ

Relax. K4LVR is now W4LT.

Its probably too much trouble to change the eHam user logon ID... so he kept his old call. No mystery there.

73
Michael
N9XY

Thanks for the update. 73 Larry
 
I See Your Lips Moving...  
by K2WS on May 8, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
You naysayers have missed the point of Don's article. He is arguing for amateurs to educate themselves about ssb audio, to learn about what is most effective and what is not. Don wrote:

"The point of this article: adjusting our SSB audio so it is the most efficient it can be to communicate the way we want to communicate without interfering with the other guy's right to communicate the way he wants to. That is sort of the Golden Rule of On-air SSB Audio."

From the many comments posted it is obvious that the topic of 'Effective Audio' is a mystery to these scoffers. Instead of looking at the worst examples of 'experimental audio', why not pay attention to the many excellent sounding ESSB signals?

Some observations might clear up your confusion as to what ESSB actually is. The acronym 'ESSB' stands for Extended SSB and was defined and published by John, NU9N about 5 years ago. It refers to ssb signals whose high frequencies extend beyond 3.1kHz and whose low frequencies extend down to 100Hz.

2.8kHz wide ssb with over-powering bass frequencies is NOT ESSB! Infortunately, most hams immediately assume this is so and therefore brand all bass heavy ssb signals as 'ESSB'. Wrong!

There are essentially two groups of ESSB audiophiles. One group wants the majority of ssb operators to receive them correctly, so they keep their bandwidth below 3.6kHz. They CAN accurately be received on most ssb transceivers. The other group works with wider bandwidths from about 4.5kHz to 6kHz. They can only be correctly demodulated on an SSB receiver capable of 4.5kHz and wider bandwidth. They are seeking an AM Alternative mode, not a replacement for conventional bw ssb! So many foolish arguments could have been avoided if that concept was made clear! Both modes have their supporters and indeed many users of one mode use the other.

The compatible 3.0 to 3.6kHz wide ESSB is usually transmitted with a balanced frequency spectrum, whose low and high frequency limits cut of sharply - without splatter and objectionable IMD products. This is what should be considered examples of good ESSB. Furthermore, nearly every ESSB operator transmits at 1/3 to 1/2 the full power of their transceiver, thereby reducing 3rd and 5th order IMD by 15 to 25dB! So please, naysayers - give ESSB users the same credit you allow yourselves.

The wider ESSB signals are not compatible to conventional ssb and much on the air GRIEF could have been avoided if calling frequencies for ESSB was set aside as we have for AM. 6kHz wide ESSB should be considered an alternative to AM. 6kHz ESSB can do the job much better, offering TWICE the audio fidelity and no troublesome carrier. In addition 6kHz ESSB has excellent intelligibility even just a few dB above the noise floor. But you naysayers don't know about that, do you?

How ridiculous it is to criticize ESSB signals as being 'too wide' when others are running 2kw+ SSB for no other reason then to sound LOUD. Until our transmitters all run Class-A, kW class signals will ALWAYS have more occupied bw then 100w signals, because a transmitter's bandpass slopes are not rectangular. IMD products pad out the signal so at 30dB down and more many RF clipper driven transmitter's are MUCH wider than 3kHz. The worst offenders are contesters and DX'ers in battle. Add a high gain antenna and that compounds the problem. So who's kidding who?

I believe the best thing we can do is stop fighting amongst ourselves. Audio is more important then most hams realize. The military and air traffic controllers have been using wider bandwidth voice channels for some time. Instead of criticizing ESSB experimenters, why don't you naysayers find out what the advantages of using wider speech bandwidth are?
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by G7VOT on May 9, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Great post K2WS,

Problem is however that, the naysayer are too stuck in their ways, ignorant and stubborn to look for any advantage. They refuse to accept any change.

If they look into it and discover what advatages are offered, what else would they have to moan about?

Code no Code is a lost battle for them so now they have turned their attention to audio and the people that experiment with it.

To the guys that like to experiment, keep it up.

To the naysayers. Well what can you say.........
 
The Real Story.....  
by KC4PE on May 9, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
The Real Story ....!!!

Back in 1992 a group of guys hanging out on 14.198, began a quest to get away from the terrible sound of the scratchy D-104 sound ... it began by adding capacitance and resistance to try and tailor the sound to something more acceptable to the ear and reduce the listening fatigue factor. A article from Ham Radio Horizons surfaced about building your own three band equalizer.

At this point a new aspect of Ham Radio was born, W2ONV, K2GX, WA2JVM and KC4PE, the goal of this group was to duplicate the wide band human voice in a narrow band environment, and when your wife tells you that your SSB voice is the same as your real life voice .. you have arrived at the goal!!!

A number of issues were addressed by the group,
-No internal modification to the radio, ---what the manufacturer gave you that's what you used...
-No mods to exceed the manufactures bandwidth.
- No RF compression was to be used.

Now it was apparent that there was a vast amount of add on equipment in the field used by the broadcast community, commercial SSB stations, the recording industry etc.
and the group employed the use of this level equipment along with studio level microphones.

At this point the term ESSB was given to the program, ESSB meaning "Enhanced Single Side Band".

In the later 1990ies NU9N joined the group and had his own idea's about the SSB enhancement, this is documented on his website in full detail.

At the insistence of W2ONV and the group: a move to extending the TX bandwidth (passed the manufactures type accepted bandwidth) was resisted and frowned upon.

To show the intent and their objection to the proposed wide band issue, the group began to recommend the use of high/low cut filters to lock in the TX frequencies and bandwidth, (NOTE ...Most voice channels/EQ have high/low filters built right into their front end stages. so using the Kenwood product, TS-950 a the guideline filters with 60-80 DB of roll off were inserted at 60 and 3150 cycles......

Now the guys interested in using bandwidth extension to attain a "Real Life Audio" used the thought that the Amateur AM guys can use up to kHz so why not SSB??
This group received no endorsement from the 14.198 group (now located on .14.178), so they moved off and started their own SSB program. They were known a WSSB ...Wide Single Side Band" Now anybody writing about audio and complaining or endorsing , should clarify --- ESSB or WSSB...there is a marked Hugh difference!!!!

Now the interest was growing leaps and bonds all over the world in Enhanced SSB, the radio and equipment manufactures contacted the group for their input and idea's ....... now just about all the radio offering in today's marketplace have ESSB EQ systems built into them, from Yaesu to Icom to Ten Tec , even the new Flex and K-3 systems have such.
Commercial SSB shortwave broadcasters contacted the group for help and information, and I know Orban and the famous Aphex Air Chain was adopted in many commercial SSB TX systems.....
Now as always when a new idea comes on the plate, there are those who have their own ideas on how it should be used-adapted-modified, and in the world of ESSB we are no exception, I know of 12 such groups myself some I agree with other I totally disagree with, but when your floating the connotation of ESSB around most folks think it all comes from the same barrel....which it does not...!!

Now if you really want to see what's its all about... see

http://www.kc4pe.com/amateurshack.htm

Thanks,

-Bill
KC4PE


 
RE: The Real Story.....  
by SOLARDX on May 9, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I wonder what SSB pep output has got to do with wide SSB signals? 100KW PEP and 1 kw pep should be clean if the transmitter is run correctly. I wonder where this thinking comes from that high power splatters more that legal power? Power output and IMD are two different issues. Although heaven forbid if any ESSB station ran 100kw, they would take out half of the RF spectrum like a shortwave jammer!

These are the facts 99.5% of hams that use regular communications quality audio dont splatter.

99.9% of ESSB, Hifi, WSSB, Audiophools etc etc splatter. I can gladly give you a list of the ones that splatter, but they know who they are.

Since all my receivers have a IMD dynamic range of 90 db or greater i have great faith in my receivers.
What i am hearing day after day is the downwind feculence from your fellow ESSB stations.

I wonder how you measure your real world IMD? I would like to know, because precious few ESSB stations have spectrum analyzers that can measure and get a true indication of IMD under real SSB voice conditions. Is that like the new ESSB term "I have "scoped" my audio and i am clean" I wonder how they "specan" their audio? Where are the pretty graphs that show the rich IMD at 5kh, 10khz, 15 khz and 20khz? Imagine how bad
your IMD is if i can hear it at 20khz, no wonder nobody dares actually measuring it in a truthful manner!

It is wrong suggesting that reducing power always improves 5th and and higher order IMD products. Radios like the TS870S probably have the worst IMD levels
that was measured in the ARRL lab for a HF radio. It is then no surprise that ESSB stations who use this radio are causing havoc. Even a IC706 has better IMD performance than a TS870S. The TS870S has IMD levels as low as 20db down on the 3rd order, thats class C the last time i checked!

You even ignoring the main root cause of the majority of ESSB splatter which is ALC induced splatter, a problem in just about every ham radio model even in the IC7800!

W2ONV sounded the best when he was using a D104 and a proper RF speech processor, he certainly would not have made so many enemies if he stuck with this combination. Who can forget the battlers on 14.178 from stations on 14.170 to 14.180. Was that splatter
imaginary? Maybe it was grid current from the AB1 tube with handles amplifiers?

As far as ESSB goes, its really just this simple, stop the SPLATTER and the whining will go away.
Even the AM'ers have learnt to control their sideband band levels, i dont hear anyone whining
about AM sidebands or deviation levels on FM much.

However while there are no regulations i suppose i will have just have too shut my mouth and put up with the splatter.


Over Over
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by WA0LYK on May 9, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Most of the folks complaining about essb have totally missed the point about adjusting your transmitter so that your signal is the best possible. I would postulate that the percent of essb with poor signals is no greater than the percent of regular ssb users with poor signals. The whole point of the article is to have a signal without IMD and with the best intelligibility.

The author glossed over two very important items about adjusting your rig properly, average reading meters and ALC. If you watch your rigs built in power meter it shouldn't read over 25 - 30 watts when you are speaking because it is an average reading meter. This level of output will normally mean you ARE hitting 100 watts of peak envelope power (PEP) output. PSK31 folks found this out very early on. Whether they know why or not, 25 - 30 watts of average output is about all you can get out of a 100 watt PEP rated transmitter without creating IMD out the wazoo. Turning up your mic gain so that you see 50 watts, 75 watts, or even 100 watts AVERAGE output means you are splattering all over.

ALC is the other bugaboo. It is a feedback system that decreases the gain of prior stages to prevent overdriving the final amplifier and creating IMD out the wazoo. However, ALL feedback systems require some time to operate. So, while you are waiting for the feedback to occur, you will be overdriving your finals and creating IMD, i.e. splattering all up and down the band. You can be pretty much assured that every time you see your ALC meter flicker you have created splatter. The higher you drive the ALC, the louder your splatter will be. ALC also modulates the top of your RF envelope with what is in essence a saw tooth creating even more IMD. Again, turning up your mic gain so that the ALC pins to the top of the scale is purposely creating splatter in my opinion.

You'll notice that neither of these are problems associated only with essb. Regular ssb operators are guilty of generating splatter just as much (or more) than essb operators. The point of the article is to create more clean signals than there are today. EVERYONE should read it and heed it.

Jim
WA0LYK

 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by G6NJR on May 9, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Errrrrrrrrr explain the advantages of unneeded bandwidth other than someone wants to be an AM Braodcast station but dont want to pay the License fees for said station

There is no need for expanding the width of an SSB signal at all item want the width go pay for broadcast rights and use the correct band for such fat signals .

pete .
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by WA0LYK on May 9, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I'm sorry, but you are way behind the times when it comes to intelligibility research.

The [i]traditional[/i] 300 - 3000 Hz bandwidth for a communications quality circuit derived from an old Western Electric (i.e. telephone company) study that weighed intelligibility against cost. It did not conclude that a 2.7 kHz circuit provided the BEST intelligibility. It concluded that 3 kHz provided adequate intelligibility for minimal costs.

If you would google "speech intelligibility" you will find a plethora of information about what frequency ranges are required for good understanding of human speech. The old 2.7 kHz bandwidth just doesn't cut it and requires the use of phonetics to insure that accurate comprehension takes place.

You are going to see more and more safety of life communications devices require wider bandwidths due to this research into speech intelligibility. New specs for building fire annunciators and aircraft communications are all moving to 6 - 8 kHz bandwidths.

I am NOT saying that ALL ham communications should move to this, but it IS a LEGITIMATE area of research and experimentation that hams should be able to pursue. As with everything, it has to be done in moderation and with respect for others. Trying to run 8 kHz bandwidth on a crowded band is NOT appropriate. Running 8 kHz on a dead band IS appropriate.

Jim
WA0LYK
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KX2V on May 9, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I Have 3 radio's for HF. 756PIII,FT2K & (The "Wide one") TS950SDX
I like to rag chew with my friends.
I run SEVERAL pieces of audio gear with TLM103 & RE27 Mics.
I use a program called Spectra plus to "TAYLOR" my audio for a flat response & I also use this program to monitor fellow ham friends. I can also record & plot their audio. Four of my friends use Flex radio's. I think the way they sound is phenomenal.
The widest BW I can receive is 6K. & NONE OF THEM COME CLOSE. That is what is called considerate!!
Nobody EVER comes on to tell us we sound bad. Or we are too wide.. We critique each other & try to enjoy OUR FORM of radio.
I like to mess around with this stuff & just because some of you out here don't doesn't mean I have to change my ways.
WHO ARE YOU???

If you don't like this form of radio USE YOUR VFO & GO AWAY. & talk to the people you like to talk to.

My GOD shut up already!!!
ESSB forever!!!! LOL

JT
KX2V
I do know a guy in Cedar grove that can never get it right & should throw in the towel . : )
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KX2V on May 9, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I Have 3 radio's for HF. 756PIII,FT2K & (The "Wide one") TS950SDX
I like to rag chew with my friends.
I run SEVERAL pieces of audio gear with TLM103 & RE27 Mics.
I use a program called Spectra plus to "TAYLOR" my audio for a flat response & I also use this program to monitor fellow ham friends. I can also record & plot their audio. Four of my friends use Flex radio's. I think the way they sound is phenomenal.
The widest BW I can receive is 6K. & NONE OF THEM COME CLOSE. That is what is called considerate!!
Nobody EVER comes on to tell us we sound bad. Or we are too wide.. We critique each other & try to enjoy OUR FORM of radio.
I like to mess around with this stuff & just because some of you out here don't doesn't mean I have to change my ways.
WHO ARE YOU???

If you don't like this form of radio USE YOUR VFO & GO AWAY. & talk to the people you like to talk to.

My GOD shut up already!!!
ESSB forever!!!! LOL

JT
KX2V
I do know a guy in Cedar grove that can never get it right & should throw in the towel . : )
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KX2V on May 9, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I Have 3 radio's for HF. 756PIII,FT2K & (The "Wide one") TS950SDX
I like to rag chew with my friends.
I run SEVERAL pieces of audio gear with TLM103 & RE27 Mics.
I use a program called Spectra plus to "TAYLOR" my audio for a flat response & I also use this program to monitor fellow ham friends. I can also record & plot their audio. Four of my friends use Flex radio's. I think the way they sound is phenomenal.
The widest BW I can receive is 6K. & NONE OF THEM COME CLOSE. That is what is called considerate!!
Nobody EVER comes on to tell us we sound bad. Or we are too wide.. We critique each other & try to enjoy OUR FORM of radio.
I like to mess around with this stuff & just because some of you out here don't doesn't mean I have to change my ways.
WHO ARE YOU???

If you don't like this form of radio USE YOUR VFO & GO AWAY. & talk to the people you like to talk to.

My GOD shut up already!!!
ESSB forever!!!! LOL

JT
KX2V
I do know a guy in Cedar grove that can never get it right & should throw in the towel . : )
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KX2V on May 9, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I Have 3 radio's for HF. 756PIII,FT2K & (The "Wide one") TS950SDX
I like to rag chew with my friends.
I run SEVERAL pieces of audio gear with TLM103 & RE27 Mics.
I use a program called Spectra plus to TAYLOR my audio for a flat response & I also use this program to monitor fellow ham friends. I can also record & plot their audio. Four of my friends use Flex radio's. I think the way they sound is phenomenal.
The widest BW I can receive is 6K. & NONE OF THEM COME CLOSE. That is what is called considerate!!
Nobody EVER comes on to tell us we sound bad. Or we are too wide.. We critique each other & try to enjoy OUR FORM of radio.
I like to mess around with this stuff & just because some of you out here don't doesn't mean I have to change my ways.
WHO ARE YOU???

If you don't like this form of radio USE YOUR VFO & GO AWAY. & talk to the people you like to talk to.

My GOD shut up already!!!


JT
KX2V
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KX2V on May 9, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
OOOPS
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W7ETA on May 9, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
It seems that while QSPs might be feculent, splatter from them isn't feculence.

"That ho is a fecal monster, she's My Miss Feculent."

 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KC4PE on May 10, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I have to correct my friend up above in this series of write ups when he claims ALC is the cause of Splatter among ESSB perponents....
I assure you that one of the important factors of GOOD Enhanced SSB is the fact that one does not ... NOT... run any ALC at all .. our studies indicate that even the slightest amount of ALC will fold/impede the flow of the transmission and actually cut into the quality of the ones audio.

Also on 14.178 there are a number of fellows with true spectrum analyzers that will monitor and give you a series of screen shots or even a video stream of your audio so you can see....

An also you'll find that most ESSB folks run scopes and monitor a trapezoid view of their output always looking for those sharp edges.

As a matter of fact one of the ESSB guys has created a very nice business; selling and manufacturing devices that will enable one to monitor and adjust his amplifier for proper/clean output.....

W2ONV never-never splattered as he took extreme pains to make sure he was clean and with in the (stock)bandwidth of his 950ies....
If you look at some of the pictures of his station you can see the scope with the trapezoid pattern at work..

And my friend, when ONV went.."Over-Over" in a slow detailed text he was checking the linear aspect of his transmission on his scope.....

-Bill
kc4pe@bellsouth.net
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by K6ZSR on May 10, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Bill, KC4PE made a very big error in his last reply to this subject - and that is: Bill W2ONV never never said Over Over...what he said was OooooooVa OooooooVa ;-)

On the other things KC4PE mentioned, he is Right On!

73's de Mike, K6ZSR
 
I See Your Lips Moving...  
by K2WS on May 10, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I'd like to clear up a few points I made earlier.

The actual bandwidth of a transmitter is always narrower at 6dB down then it is at 60dB down because of distortion. On a spectrum display, the trace of a dirty transmitter will appear like a pyramid rather then a tall rectangle with nearly vertical sides. So the stronger that dirty signal is on your receiver, the more likely nearby weaker signals will get QRM'ed. On the other hand, if we exchange the dirty signal for a clean one, whose transmitter bandpass slopes are rectangular, the less likely nearby weaker signals will get QRM'ed.

In the real world, receiver overload will be an issue, making strong signals even more of a problem. What good is a receiver with rectangular selectivity curves if the typical transmitter on the ham bands puts out a dirty, pyramid shaped spectrum?


I've been an ESSB experimenter many years and I find that ESSB operators in general have cleaner signals then most everyone else. I use the Flex 5000A and earlier the SDR-1000. These fine transceivers have a panadapter that can resolve down to 10Hz! and who's receiver at 2 kHz Spacing has a Two-Tone 3rd Order Dynamic Range of ~100 dB. This setup is accurate and SOTA and in general nearly all observed ESSB signals are clean and rectangular.

As Bill, KC4PE stated "And also you'll find that most ESSB folks run scopes and monitor a trapezoid view of their output always looking for those sharp edges. As a matter of fact one of the ESSB guys has created a very nice business; selling and manufacturing devices that will enable one to monitor and adjust his amplifier for proper/clean output..... "

I've been an advocate of RF signal monitoring on a scope for decades. I helped the ESSB guy that Bill mentioned with the basic concept and design and he's done real well with it. .

I've heard some say that the TS870 as "probably have the worst IMD levels that was measured in the ARRL lab for a HF radio. It is then no surprise that ESSB stations who use this radio are causing havoc." But to conclude that hams aren't savvy enough to solve the problem, is not correct. As I mentioned in the 1st post - most ESSB users run their exciters at 1/3 to 1/2 of full output. Check out the ARRL Laboratory Expanded Test-Result Report on the TS-870. The Lab found that the worst case 3rd IMD 2-tone test on 14.2mHz was -32dB @ 100w and -48dB @ 50w. The comment that "It is then no surprise that ESSB stations who use this radio are causing havoc." is not supported by the ARRL Lab or ESSB TS870 users.

ALC was originally designed to keep the exciter from overdriving the final amplifier. The harder the rig was driven, the stronger was the feedback signal to reduce the gain of a low level stage. Later, operators were encouraged to drive the rig into ALC, thereby acting like an RF Compressor! Instead of rarely reaching ALC threshold, later rigs had ALC action continuously! Each time ALC threshold was reached, a burst of IMD was generated and some gain in talkpower was achived. As WA0LYK mentioned, in the interval the ALC needs to gain control (attack time) a burst of splatter is developed!
ALC does cause problems but,it is easy to avoid them. By setting the maximum exciter output 1/3 to 1/2 below full output (as measured on the scope) the ALC will never activate. In this way, most ESSB users avoid ALC problems and have lower IMD by virtue of not driving the final beyond 50%. By far, the majority of ESSB signals I've examined on the Flex Radio panadapter, are the cleanest signals on the band.

What's the value of ESSB? Better intelligibility (quantatatively measured), better sound quality and less listener fatigue. Even 10% wider then 3kHz SSB will demonstrate this. ESSB users know this from experience. Read these 2 articles and find out why the FAA and Military services are widening up.
"http://w3oz.com/white%20paper.htm"
"http://www.nu9n.com/images/Sound.pdf"


73, Alan K2WS
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by WA2JJH on May 13, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I remember when the 14.178 crew was in full swing. They used Equiptment that are found in small and large market commercial AM BDCSTW.

The N9UN artical is very good in explaining the right way to do it. Some got pink tickets, some were found to be as clean as the average ham setup fpr 3KC or less BW.

The problem was those running a full 6kc wide DSB signal.
Your vintage Collins SSB rig has a 3 KC B/W.

My opinion. If you want your shack to be more like a commercial BDCST station, you have yo invest in $10,000 worth of audio chain. The problem was the frequency used. The prime DX section of 20M is not the place for a special interest group to have day long roundtable QSO's.

I found NU9N to be a good OM. However some of the group felt like 14.178 was THEIR OWN frequency.
One OM of the group lived 500Meters away from me.
He had some nerve to complain about my 100w 2.4 kc wide signal!!!!!
He was using the fast roll off at 3KC scheme. However even if he was 30db down at 3.5KC, he had a watt or 2 at 3.5kc.

We simply could not use 20M at the same time. That is a problem of our QTH's being close. However he had excess BW, I did not. So his nasty attitude was wrong!!
I do not hear him on the air anymore. Perhaps he moved.

If you want to use all the compressors, peak limiters, and tons of other commercial equipment in your audio chain.....Fine by me.

However, I think they should have used 10 or 15M.
Hundreds of more KC to use. Those bands are also not as popular as 20M.

The Real engineering challege would be to make narrow SSB(1.5kc) to sound great.

I am sure with some creative software, one could get that AM BDCST sound in 1.5kc.
One design was what UPS was supposed to do with the section of 220mhz we lost! They would transmit with 1.5KC SSB. Then in the RX audio section, a 200-3000+kc
would be derived by splitting the audio into spectrums.
Use a DSP audio frequency doubler to derive the high end. Add it to the 1.5KC.
I am over simplifying tech details. However when all was said and done, a much more intelligable audio signal would drive the loud speaker. A subaudable tone was used to eleminate any fine tuning or clarifier/RIT.

I use my TS-950SDX using the 2.7kc filters in the first and 2nd RX IF. My BW is around 2.4KC wide.
I have the DSP cut off below 300hz. Using 200hz or flat, just creates useless spectrum. I have a deep voice, so I have the DSP cut off at 2600hz.

When I use the RF speech proc., I use a maximum of 6-8 db of RF compression. I also double check the ALC.
The ALC is in range with the speech proc in or out.
I just use the standard MC-80 base stock mic. I make sure the Pre-amp is off.
I get many excellent unsolicited comments on my TX audio.

I speak in a soft natural voice. On RX, I use the 1.8KC filter with DSP noise reduction. I always keep the RX pre-amp off.(AIP). I simply turn the volume up a bit to compensate. I find that I hear weak signals better without the pre-amp up full. The weak signals are actually better.
Less operator fatique from the lower noise floor.

 
I See Your Lips Moving...  
by VE6KLJ on May 13, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Very well written article! Comments are interesting too,
I will say one thing.. I'm now 28 years old, into my 10th year as a Ham operator. Right from before I was allowed to trasmit my elmers made damn sure I understood what the ALC meter was for on the rig, how to adjust my audio and in most cases why not to use the processor.

Recently after a bit of a hiatus I got back into the scene... Got chatting on 80m and got complemented on my audio... That's with a bone stock ft-847 and hand mike.

Proper Adjustments go a long long long way
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W4LGH on May 13, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
K6ZSR said..."Bill, KC4PE made a very big error in his last reply to this subject - and that is: Bill W2ONV never never said Over Over...what he said was OooooooVa OooooooVa ;-)"

Well you don't have to worry about Bill W2ONV anymore, he's been an SK for almost a year now.
Guess someone got a bunch of nice equipment. He will be missed, as he was a pretty nice guy, even if he was from New Joysea.

73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com

Over-Over




 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by KC5NYJ on May 15, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
"better sound quality and less listener fatigue"

Sounds like an old Texar vs. Optimod ad.

 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by 5R8GQ on May 15, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
>by RFEXPERT on May 6, 2008
>The 1st rule for good SSB audio is?
>Answer, dont use ESSB.

We should take advice from someone who calls himself
"RFEXPERT" but is too chicken to list a name and
callsign? Who are you, another "No Code Extra"?
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W8NCZ on May 16, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
well its to bad that some of us have suffered circumstances beyond our control and can no longer do the repairing or building that we used to enjoy. so we are reduced to appliance ops as you call us. at least we can still think and are human beings but if it makes you feel superior I guess thats ok. I for one am just thankfull that my mind is still ok and I can at least experiment with readily made (toys)
something that I can still do with only use of 1 side of my body and yes it does make me feel better. I suffered a major stroke while in the hospital at the age of 51. I'm thankfull to just be alive as the doctors gave me a 7-10% chance of surviving my open heart surgery after the stroke last march 07. at least I can still play radio be an appliance operator as you call it. I talk to alot of hams that are disabled and are radio operators just like you and me
so why are you better than the rest of us that would love to do more but can't due to physical limitations
its the experimenting in this hobby that has made great improvements in technology. I still love to experiment just can't build the projects any more
I used to build my own antennas and even built my first qrp novice station in 1968 at age 13 transmitter and receiver for cw.
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by WA2JJH on May 18, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
W4LGH, sorry to hear of ONV's passing. He was NOT the ESSB W2-- dude that has his FCC QTH as down the block from me.

The rude W2 dude is alive and well and still promoting HI-FI SSB EQ,s. He is pictured in an old Gold line mic ad in QST
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by WA2JJH on May 18, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
KD8ESL, you are in good company. Extensive RF experimentation is not a requirement to good character.

I have been told by DRs I would die many times. I really do believe what does not kill a man....makes one stronger.

I had that creepy MERSA bug a year ago. I had to get a spinal lamectomy.

Leason learned is that MDs dole out antiboitics like candy.
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by W8NCZ on May 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
wa2jjh
I just wish the doctors would have dolled out the antibiotics like candy mrsa is a antibiotic resistant strain of staph auerious mine wasn't if they would have given me antibiotics on day one the staph may not have attacked my heart valves thus preventing the stroke. I can sympathise though I pretty much know what you went through. staph is a serious and viscious infection if not caught in time it can lead to death. I agree what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger just ask my wife she was at my bedside every day for 3 weeks straight until I went into a nursing home for 2 months until my chest healed and my pic line removed. then it was into inpatient rehab for several months. when the drs told me I would probably never walk again I laughed and said I walked until the day I got sick and I would walk again and I am,
the only thing is I still have some left side paralysis can't use my left arm or hand my left leg is clumbsy no fine motor skills so that is why I don't build or play with antennas anymore so now its store bought things I can play with. I used to think
man its so easy today just to go to the store or internet and get what you want but I am thankful just to be an (appliance operator)
73's
kd8exl
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by WA2JJH on May 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
They told me I would not walk again too!!!!
Proved them wrong too! Had a great time in Pattaya Beach Thailand last month! EVERYTHING WORKED A-OK!!!
 
RE: I See Your Lips Moving...  
by WA2JJH on May 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
They told me I would not walk again too!!!!
Proved them wrong too! Had a great time in Pattaya Beach Thailand last month! EVERYTHING WORKED A-OK!!!
 
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