What's Not to Love?
Robert Basrone (WC3O)
on
May 20, 2008
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What's not to love?
Another Dayton Hamvention is come and gone. Looking back I have attended over 20 such events. I have always loved going to the biggest Ham convention in the world, but it seems to me to get better and better every year. I was there when it snowed in April, when it WAS in April (on my wife's birthday, no less) and I baked in the sun other years. I was there when it rain most of the weekend and when there was no rain at all. This year it was the wind. Not too bad, and I am not complaining! Having done work for my club's Hamfest I know the amount of work that goes into such an event. My club's Hamfest is about 1/100th of the size of Hamvention! I can't begin to imagine the amount of work that goes into an event of this size, and to pull it off every year? AND with an all volunteer work force? I can't thank the people involved enough. I know they have had some rough times, and I know all too well how tough it is to get and keep people that are willing to put in the time and effort in that is required.
My biggest problem with Hamvention is that I don't know what to do first. I LOVE the flea market. I LOVE looking at what all the vendors have to offer and the forums are just great. So where to go first? I wish the event was a week long! Although, I am sure that it is one long weekend for the people that need to sell.
And another thing, I LOVE Hara Arena! After over twenty years I STILL get a little lost when I work my way around that place. I used to think it was just me, but I have talked to many people that say the same thing! This is a place that has grown up around the event. Every strange twist and turn in the place is a mark of growth over the years. I know there are other events that have first-rate venues, but there is a steep price to pay for that. I will take the quirky Hara Arena any day of the week. I hope it never changes. I hate change.
I do think the low point in the long history of Hamvention was when most of the help was hired out. It didn't have the same feel. There was never a happier day as when they went back to all volunteers. What do you think? Remember; never complain unless you are willing to help in some way. If you do volunteer, do what you say you're going to do. Other people are counting on you. I have been to many meetings where people volunteer to do work at the meeting and that is the last you hear from them! hi hi
It's not easy.
So another Hamvention has come and gone. Got my rooms reserved for next year! I'll be there. How's about you?
Best 73
Bob WC3O
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What's Not to Love?
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by AI4ET on May 20, 2008
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The Hamfest is over and not a word written about any new product introduction. Was there any? or is the phrase 'Unveiled at Dayton' like 'Made in America' something to be buried in the past?
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by W9PMZ on May 20, 2008
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I went on Friday. My first Hamvention was in 1973.
The buildings really havn't changed all that much. Although inside the arena the bottom half of the scoreboard is gone and the ceiling is missing a lot of tiles. But if you look closely, the 1960s TV cameras are still on the platforms inside the arena. These are relics of the Dayton Gems era. The Dayton Gems was a minor league hockey team.
I had a hamburger and diet coke for $6. Didn't get sick, so I guess that was a plus.
There wern't any "unveiled radios" that I saw, but there were a lot of other new products from various vendors. I bought a new 43' vertical antenna from DX Engineering. This is their product that I suppose is to compete with Zero Five Antennas. I saw a K3 from Elecraft. Elecraft makes a nice kit, but I don't understand how they sell $1K to $2K radios that require assembly. Sure they are very good radios; but when you factor in your time and effort are they really a good deal? K3 vs. a 756 Pro III, the ICOM is the choice for me.
There has been a definite reduction of computer vendors over the years and I didn't see any DVDs that I really didn't want to see.
Was crashed into by a motorized cart once. Crashed into by aimlessly wandering people a couple times. I can appreciate that people need to use carts and I am not aginst them; but if cart people want to gab, go gab outside and quit blocking the aisles. Ran into that a couple times. But overall I think that people were pretty couterous.
As far as vendor attendance, there was empty space in the inside areas, some of the missing vendors has been made up by a expanding ARRL presence hawking their books and other materials.
Flea Market? Half of the crumbling flea market was empty, or if you prefer half full. Still junk left over from 1973. The Hamvention should realize that the flea market is in a death spiral and make money by selling parking spaces. Someone told me that the cost of a space was $100. Probably easier to eBay at that cost. I did see on guy who had a great idea, he used one of the rental "pods". I wonder how much that cost?
My father said that he drove by Saturday night about 5:45PM and said that the place was empty. My sister who said that some of the resturants didn't get half of the volume that they have experienced in the past. Is this a sign that the Hamvention in itself is in a death spiral?
One benefit of the death spiral was that traffic wasn't that bad on the highways. But I used I-70 and I can't speak for I-75.
I still havn't won anything over the years..........
73,
Carl - W9PMZ
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What's Not to Love?
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by K0ZL on May 20, 2008
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As the North American rep for SPE (Expert 1K-FA solid state amp & ATU), we had to make a difficult decision not to attend this year, due to the economy and fuel prices. I am sure that a lot of potential exhibitors and attendees made the same decision.
We hope to be there next year, finances allowing.
Most hams do their shopping on the internet these days, and a good internet presence is necessary for product sales and support; but nothing beats actual "face time" and being able to feel and see the product.
Hopefully next year will be much better. Sorry we missed seeing all of our new friends this year.
73!
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by W4PC on May 20, 2008
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From the vendor standpoint:
It seemed like the crowds were smaller, but everyone who came, came to buy! We had our best Dayton in many years, as did many others we talked to.
Other vendors I talked to said the same thing, but one big thing I noticed was every ham was very NICE. Maybe this was due to the lower crowds.
The comment above about everyone being gone at 5:45 on Saturday. I'd hope so, as the hours were 9-5 on Saturday. The only day that the hamfest was open until 6 was Friday.
In addition to the new release of our software (Pacterm/Pkterm (made in America)), was Timewave's hamlink bluetooth, the VX-8R from Yaesu, the Icom IC-7200 and RX-7 and so much more. Katie from ARRL has some videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/KatieW1krb.
The best thing about Dayton from a vendor standpoint is the after show sales. I had a stack yesterday when we got back in the office!
From a personal standpoint, I got to see friends from years gone by and make new ones. What a great time this year's hamvention was!
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by DREWCAREY on May 20, 2008
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Here's what I saw that was new. Yaesu showed the new VX8R handheld for 6, 2, 220 and 440 includes APRS and has a GPS Mic option. Pretty Cool, but all they had was one prototype and no one could touch it.
TenTec has updated the Jupiter. Made the cabinet black and changed the display to blue on white or white on blue. Put silver bands on the knobs like other radios in their line. Still the same Jupiter otherwise so it was just a cosmetic change, but it does look great and now looks like rest of the line.
GRE was there showing their scanners. Don't remember them being there before.
Icom showed a new EmComm HF rig.
Kenwood was same old same old as they announced their new stuff earlier in the year.
ARRL booth was hopping. A lot of folks signing up and renewing. They were always busy.
Youth forum had a lot of young folks. Great and good to see but we need more! Come on hams, stop eating and start teaching.
Byonics had all their new APRS innovations.
Elecraft booth always busy. K3 is hot.
AES had some of the lowest prices. What a change. I can remember when they used to be the highest and did not even bother to come to the Hamvention. What a welcomed change.
Ham Radio Outlet, who used to be one of the lowest price vendors, had some of the higher prices.
R&L was price aggressive as usual.
MixW guys were there promoting the RigExpert Interface and doing a lot of bashing of the US Interface folks without mentioning their name, but I think everyone believes they know who the MixW folks were talking about.
A lot of other new niche products, but just too many to talk about.
Good crowd, but flea market down in numbers. Spaces are too high of a price for a space and people were as always asking too high a price for old beat up and worn crap. Get real, price it right.
One thing I noticed is that hams are getting fatter. Come on gents, you need to stop eating so much and get out and exercise!!! It really is scary how many fat people were there.
Then there were those stupid motorized carts running into people. In most cases, they are simply carrying around fat people who were too fat to move around under their own power. In very few cases were those carts needed by truly handicapped people. Hint: Walking will help work off some of that fat.
Bathrooms were their typical disgusting, smelling, mess. It is really bad when the port-o-lets smell better than the indoor bathrooms.
Everything else was a blast and a good time. Did I mention the cute little "booth bimbos" at the Icom booth?
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by NI0C on May 20, 2008
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My son and I drove there in the rain and shared a flea market space with my son's brother in law. The draw for me is the opportunity to see the majority of the ham radio vendors and a significant fraction of the ham radio population all gathered in one place.
Highlights for me:
The QRP exhibits and banquet.
Meeting the new owner of Force 12.
Watching Wayne and Eric work the crowd at the Elecraft booth. Nice guys, they are!
Having a member of the TX5C expedition stop by our flea market space and purchase an item from me. It gave me the opportunity to thank him for the efforts of the TX5C team.
Selling an ancient BC-312 receiver to an old-timer who really appreciated it and had the know how to fix it up. He was too proud to accept my offer to carry it to the bus for him.
73,
Chuck NI0C
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What's Not to Love?
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by W2FBS on May 20, 2008
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Forty eight years a ham and this was my first Dayton! Had a blast meeting old friends from 75 and 40 meters and putting a face to the calls. I have no prior experience to compare this year's to any others, but I thought that the flea market offered little in used or nearly new ham gear and there was a lot of old "iron" around at very high prices.
I loved the part's booths out there and filled my extra suitcase with connectors, ferrite filters and other needed stuff.
The exhibits were fun on Friday with not too much traffic but getting around on Saturday was a chore. The other comments on the motorized carts were right on. Too many lazy people using them instead of walking.
All together a fun weekend for me. I will probably return every other year or so. Hope to meet more new friends the next time.
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by K4PDM on May 20, 2008
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My wife and I did not go this year due to the ham budget being super low and gas prices, super high.
I want to thank those who made the webcams and YouTube videos possible. It makes it a little better for those of us who could not attend.
I feel bad over missing a year occasionally until I realize that if I lived a couple of hundred miles further south, or east, I probably would never have been to the Hamvention even once.
At least I can say, "There's always next year!"
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A great Friday at hamvention
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by W8HRO on May 20, 2008
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I returned to the Hamvention as a Flea Market seller after a six year hiatus. I expected the smaller crowds, but the large number of empty spaces was a surprise.
However, the day (I only attended Friday) could not have gone better. No traffic delays and no lines at the gate allowed me to drive right on in to my space. I was located next to two friendly gents from North Carolina who were adapting to the cool Ohio weather.
I had my wares displayed by 7:40, sold my first item by 8:15, and sold almost everything else by Noon. In between, I chatted with my spacemates, potential customers, the occasional cranky old fart (if you are one, you know it), and the guys checking my stuff to see how they should price their identical item.
Selling the good stuff early meant that I could cruise the Flea Market myself, and I was fortunate in finding a restored Hammarlund Super-Pro, a set I've been seeking for some time. A couple of trips inside to use the Men's Room (no lines!), browse the vendors, and get my Yaesu hat were unusually pleasant, as the smaller crowd meant extra walking room and spare oxygen.
I came home with cash, a SuperPro, a sunburn, and a happy memory of another successful Hamvention. I'll be back next year!
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RE: A great Friday at hamvention
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by KF4HR on May 20, 2008
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I've never been. Hoped to make it this year but once again something came up. By the sounds of it, I better get serious and make plans for next year, before it disappears.
KF4HR
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What's Not to Love?
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by WO8L on May 20, 2008
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Actually, the Ten Tec Jupiter changes are not just cosmetic. Yes, there's a black encloser and a new blue and gray or gray and blue screen.
But there's more.
Continuing the movement toward software defined radios (SDR), Ten Tec introduced a new downloadable software package with narrower CW filters, the cabability of plugging a keyboard for CW directly into the rig, and even a CW decoder which reads CW on the screen.
There are other software upgrades coming for SSB and much more. Can PSK31 be far behind? The SDR upgrades will work with new Jupiters and also with all previously manufactured Jupiters.
It'll be interesting.
Again, it's much more than a cosmetic change.
--Rick
WO8L
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by KD8FTH on May 20, 2008
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" As the North American rep for SPE (Expert 1K-FA solid state amp & ATU), we had to make a difficult decision not to attend this year, due to the economy and fuel prices. I am sure that a lot of potential exhibitors and attendees made the same decision."
I dont see how your company has improved its economic picture by not attending. Surely the exposure to so many hams in one location would have been worth the cost of fuel/plane and or hotel expenses. Because, you mentioned that you hope to attend next year you either feel it is worthwhile or could be. Obviously, many hams will buy online. But, the exposure of a solid product at Dayton should net sales. The excitement of "playing" with the new toys is high. Most hams who will buy a 2000-3000+ amp probably feel they are not being devastated by the economy. If I were the CEO at SPE I would have to evaluate my companies position in the marketplace, were I not financially able to attend Dayton.
73!
KD8FTH
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by N4KZ on May 20, 2008
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This was my 32nd consecutive Dayton Hamvention. It took several years but I finally learned my way around Hara Arena several years back. Moving the event to May from April has proven to be a good move -- better weather for sure. The arena itself continues to age -- as do we all -- and one must wonder how much longer this venue will host the event. Some hope and wish the Hamvention might locate elsewhere or even rotate between different regions of the country. Nice but unrealistic ideas. Most of us agree that the Hamvention is best when staffed by volunteers. The pros a few years ago just didn't cut it. An event of this magnitude requires a multitude of experienced volunteers and that alone makes the idea of relocating the show outside of Dayton all but impossible.
They've been hosting this event since 1952 and you simply cannot magically transfer that amount of experience to another city and hope to pull off such a large event. In my "day job" I plan two large conventions annually -- each attended by 600-800 people. It's a huge undertaking and I can't begin to imagine the effort required to plan a three-day event attended by 20,000.
I have the utmost respect for the DARA volunteers who make Hamvention work. But I do wish someone could improve the A/C and smelly restrooms in Hara. But given the facility's age and declining condition, those are wishes not easily realized. Even though the luster has worn off a bit after 32 straight years of attending this event, I'm sure I'll be back for number 33. After all, it's only a two-hour drive for me and it's a one-of-a-kind event.
73, N4KZ
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by AC7CW on May 20, 2008
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it sounds like the rep is saying that his cut is not enough to make it worth while. Maybe they should be shopping for another rep, maybe one geographically close to Dayton would make more sense? If I lived in Ohio I might apply for the position, what could be a better retirement supplementing income than a once a year trip to Dayton?
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What's Not to Love?
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by KG4RRN on May 20, 2008
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Could not go (again) this year, but I will whether or not gas is $4.00 a gallon next year.
Looking on the inside from the outside far-away, here are my perspectives...
From the ARRL Web-blog, to the helmetcam, & YouTube, I see it's covered for the vast majority of absent hams.
From the comments, it sounds like a lot of walking, but with comfortable tennis shoes, should not be a problem.
The high price of the tailgating though that seems to be the #1 issue, lower the price, the better participation.
The new products really are hit and miss, the year before (2007) was a rarity, as several new products came on board. Glad to see a radio built like the old military radios back in Vietnam though and that design is ageless.
The Yeasu 4 band VX-8 with GPS Speakermic was hot, as
well as the K3.
It sounds like whoever went had fun and even the ICOM girls made another appearance--who said that Hamvention wasn't HamSexy?
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What's Not to Love?
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by N4OI on May 20, 2008
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I am sure this question has been answered many times, but... why not hold the Hamvention at different cities each year? Places like Nashville, Las Vegas, Orlando and my beloved Charlotte all successfully host conventions. It could give more folks a reason to attend, especially from different regions of the country and offer a lot of other attractions to help justify the travel cost. Just a thought... 73 de Ken - N4OI
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by K6AER on May 20, 2008
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I went to Dayton for my 6th straight year. Did not get any time in the flea market due to vendor booth duty but I noticed the attendance was down a bit. This was in part due to the weather productions being for mostly rain during the event. This has the effect of keeping a lot of local (within 300 miles radius) folks home. The Flea market suffers the most any time bad weather is predicted.
The area was a lot cleaner than in the past. Most of the folks that came to the booth were ready to spend money and we did very well. The event was well organized.
Some of the fun stuff I noticed was:
Alpha has a new amplifier called the Alpha 4510. It uses a pair Eimac 4CX1000A. The 4CX800A7’s are getting scarce and I understand why they have switched. The form, fit and finish of the new amplifier is great.
Tokyo High Power had their HL- 2.5FX amplifier running in CW at 2.3 KW for the show. Interesting. I guess there has been some concern about reliability.
Flex had a crowd about 3 deep for most of the show. The K3 folks were busy but not the crowds they had last year.
ICOM came out with a new IC-7200 HF transceiver. Sort of an outdoor ruggedized mobile/ portable radio. Not sure what market they are trying for. Hams don’t like rain.
Lots of activity in the SteppIR booth and their new DB36 was in operation outside connected to an IC-7800 in the ICOM booth.
ACOM was noticeably absent along with Command Technologies and QRO. Rudy from EMTRON was their with his latest high power offerings. Do we need an amplifier with a pair of 4CX2500’s?
Array Solutions had the Hilberling up and operating with a vertical antenna on the roof. The radio performed well but i understand the new price is about $18,000. Nicely built radio but at almost twice the price of an IC-7800 I wonder if there is a market?
In time for the show Yaesu announced they were taking back all the FTdx-9000 radios for several board retrofits and major software and firm ware upgrade. I’ll this is being done to shoulder sagging sales on their top of the line radio. They also passed out lots of hats.
Kenwood booth served as a shortcut to the other end of the arena again this year. No new HF radio was to be found.
I had a great time, met lots of friends and when in town the restaurants were always full.
See you all next year.
73,Mike
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What's Not to Love?
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by KE7FD on May 20, 2008
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Hamvention 2008 is now behind us. I drove the 4+ hours each way (not as far as a great many others traveled to get there, and I am not complaining) and felt the whole trip and event was worth the time, effort and expense. While there, I attended several meetings, and forums which justified the effort of going to Dayton. I do not go to Dayton every year so when I do go, I can compare and contrast what I see with the last time I went. Rumors abounded on our 2 meter chats prior that the anticipated traffic and weather would make for a miserable weekend. On the contrary! The traffic was no big deal at all. The weather compared to Dayton '95 (a very wet April that year), was this year quite nice (not perfect, but quite nice). Two of us carpooled over, splitting the cost in half for each of us.
And now, a few lines of some low-end analysis. On one hand, did we save enough money to cover the cost of going? No. Did we find everything we were looking for? No. Did we win any of the prizes? What do you think? No. On the other hand, did we learn new things? Yes. Did we make new acquaintances and renew old ones? Yes. Did we eat too much? Hmmm, but we still had a good time and both agreed “Dayton” was worth the trip as we stood in my driveway when we got back.
A comment for the very hard working organizers of the Hamvention: Is there anyway to keep the trinket and junk dealers that have nothing to do with radio out or at least in another section? I found one item I was looking for but only after visiting every table in the flea market, including those that had nothing to sell but cheap plastic toys and knick-knacks. While any tailgater could have any sort of radio related items, the junk sellers were in greater abundance than what I have encountered in the past. And speaking for myself, this crowd does not add to the experience but rather dilute it. If I knew that the back section (or the front section) of the flea market was where the non-radio tailgaters were located, I may have found more of my items and spent more money outside AND inside. I wouldn't expect such a change to happen by next year or even the next, and like anything, people resist change even if the end result helps them, or in this case improves the event. I didn't go looking for knick-knacks nor did I buy any. Peppering these venues throughout the whole only dilutes the Hamvention experience, and might even turn-off a "purest" altogether.
And along that same train of thought, even some radio stuff looses its usefulness and should be relegated to the dumpster. I know it is hard for some hams to throw anything away, but come on guys, you can’t take it with you and there’s a good chance the next guy can’t either. We have all heard that one man's junk is another man's treasure. But if we are treasuring junk, what impression are we giving to those around us not in the amateur community when we try to invite them to join our ranks? Grit your teeth, swallow hard and pitch it. Now, didn’t that feel good?
So, gas prices permitting and knick-knacks not withstanding, I hope to be at Hamvention 2009.
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by W4LGH on May 20, 2008
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What's NOT to love? How about:
1 - $500 round trip plane ticket to get there
2 - $100 Rental car
3 - $250 2 nite stay in Hotel
Thats $850 spent ... not much left over to spend
at the show.
Seriously, the Daytona Hamvention is a great Hamfest, but due to its location, in relation to my location I
have to spend the $850 just to go to the show. That will buy a lot of junk on line. So that IS something
NOT to love for me.
73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by KI6LO on May 20, 2008
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"..... What's NOT to love? How about:
1 - $500 round trip plane ticket to get there
2 - $100 Rental car
3 - $250 2 nite stay in Hotel
Thats $850 spent ... not much left over to spend
at the show......"
--------------------
Same here. From the West Coast (California) I have the same problem. Another major problem for me is the timing compared to Visalia DX Convention. Dayton follows Visalia by a couple of weeks and radio'ing funds just don't allow me to attend both. I can drive to Visalia in 2 hours, which I do.
I went to Dayton once (in 1988) and although it was a blast, it is just too expensive for me. I agree that maybe it could be changed into a roving hamfest with stops at the East Coast, Dayton, Rockies, Las Vegas, Seattle, New England along the route with a different stop every year. Sort of like the Olympics. That way lots of people who may not be able to go to Ohio, could go to the closer stopover. Just a thought
Gene KI6LO
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by KI4MSJ on May 20, 2008
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From what I have gathered, Yeasu has introduced the
VX-8, Icom has showcased a new radio that is made for Emergency Ops with gasketed top and bottom covers and knobs and I think TenTec showed there new radio which was black. I watched the video on you tube and was very disappointed with the spokesperson Yaesu used. She was Japanese and could barely speak English and it was obvious she knew nothing about the radio.
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by W2WO on May 20, 2008
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Fewer people, but this was better in some ways. Easier to move around; nicer people.
Drove 12 hours each way.
Want: consolidate the flea market spaces to reduce the walking; separate the non-radio dealers; some method to allow very small walk-in flea market sellers. (Suggestion: rent half a table for 3 or 4 hours in the unused indoor space; $5; no vendor ticket, no power, no special parking; whatever the person can carry in to sell. Could bring back the real flea market atmosphere.)
Bill W2WO
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by N6AJR on May 20, 2008
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I haven't been to Dayton,yet, but may go some day. I happen to be one of those "old Fat Fellows in one of those electric carts."
As much as it pains me to have to reiterate this every couple of months I would like to let you know wyh I use my cart.
First off they ar known as a mobility scooter, Second , with out that I would not be able to attend any ham functions.
Yes I am a big fat guy. ( I bathe daily and use proper dental hyhene so I really don't smell). I can barely walk. I used to work in emergency services ( red lights and sirens) on the state owned bruidges in northern California. If you or you wife or family ran out of gas, had a flat, or got in a wreck , me and my folks would help you. We stopped behind you in our vehicles to protect you and your vehicle from oncoming traffic., We averaged between 3 thousand to 5 thousand calls a year on the Bay Bridge alone.( one of 7 we support). I have helped deliver babies on the bridge, talked down jumpers trying to commit suiside, and held a few hands while people died.. I was a supervisor when I was retired.
The main reason I am big is two fold. I was exposed to agent orange in Viet Nam and am the only one in the family with diabetes. Diabetes makes you heavy and the meds you take for it also have weight gain as a side effect.
I also got hurt at work and was retired at age 55 due to my injuries. I devastated my spine, and now can barely walk the length of the house. The pain is constant and severe. And after having a heart attack on Christmas day, 2007, I am in even more pain and less able to get around.
So if I go to Pacificon, or Visalia Dx Convention, I will be on my Mobility Scooter. I try to be very careful not to run into folks and be sensitive to the needs of others. I have yet to run over my first person.
With out my scooter I would be stuck at home. With it I can travel and enjoy my hobby and see those folks I have been talking to on the air.
So next time you see me ( at darn near 500 pounds) or one of my fellow or sister scooter riders, please remember that perhaps we are large and on a mobility scooter for a reason. It is hard to loose weight when you are disabled, and can not excersize .
On the other side of it, the scooter lets me go to various functions, such as a ham fest, and my local club meetings and such.
I am sorry if I offend you by riding my scooter around, but I prefer to have a life with a scooter rather than sit at home. If it offends you then tough beans to you my friend. As long as I am able to have a life of some activity, I am going to take it.
So next time you see one of us "Fat Lazy Slobs" on the electric carts, running into people and blocking the isles, because they are too lazy to get up and walk, stop and talk to us for a minute. You may actusally be pleasantly suprized. I enjoy getting out and enjoying my hobby, and will continue any way I can. Too bad if you don't like it.
naner naner
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by N6AJR on May 20, 2008
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I haven't been to Dayton,yet, but may go some day. I happen to be one of those "old Fat Fellows in one of those electric carts."
As much as it pains me to have to reiterate this every couple of months I would like to let you know wyh I use my cart.
First off they ar known as a mobility scooter, Second , with out that I would not be able to attend any ham functions.
Yes I am a big fat guy. ( I bathe daily and use proper dental hyhene so I really don't smell). I can barely walk. I used to work in emergency services ( red lights and sirens) on the state owned bruidges in northern California. If you or you wife or family ran out of gas, had a flat, or got in a wreck , me and my folks would help you. We stopped behind you in our vehicles to protect you and your vehicle from oncoming traffic., We averaged between 3 thousand to 5 thousand calls a year on the Bay Bridge alone.( one of 7 we support). I have helped deliver babies on the bridge, talked down jumpers trying to commit suiside, and held a few hands while people died.. I was a supervisor when I was retired.
The main reason I am big is two fold. I was exposed to agent orange in Viet Nam and am the only one in the family with diabetes. Diabetes makes you heavy and the meds you take for it also have weight gain as a side effect.
I also got hurt at work and was retired at age 55 due to my injuries. I devastated my spine, and now can barely walk the length of the house. The pain is constant and severe. And after having a heart attack on Christmas day, 2007, I am in even more pain and less able to get around.
So if I go to Pacificon, or Visalia Dx Convention, I will be on my Mobility Scooter. I try to be very careful not to run into folks and be sensitive to the needs of others. I have yet to run over my first person.
With out my scooter I would be stuck at home. With it I can travel and enjoy my hobby and see those folks I have been talking to on the air.
So next time you see me ( at darn near 500 pounds) or one of my fellow or sister scooter riders, please remember that perhaps we are large and on a mobility scooter for a reason. It is hard to loose weight when you are disabled, and can not excersize .
On the other side of it, the scooter lets me go to various functions, such as a ham fest, and my local club meetings and such.
I am sorry if I offend you by riding my scooter around, but I prefer to have a life with a scooter rather than sit at home. If it offends you then tough beans to you my friend. As long as I am able to have a life of some activity, I am going to take it.
So next time you see one of us "Fat Lazy Slobs" on the electric carts, running into people and blocking the isles, because they are too lazy to get up and walk, stop and talk to us for a minute. You may actusally be pleasantly suprized. I enjoy getting out and enjoying my hobby, and will continue any way I can. Too bad if you don't like it.
naner naner
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What's Not to Love?
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by W8TG on May 20, 2008
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Being a low budget ham it's all about the flea market for me. Like Bob I love it and spent 90% of my time there Friday looking for treasures which I thought were plentiful. Everyone I talked to was pleased that they had sold so much. No doubt the predicted rain and bad traffic, neither of which materialized caused the crowd to be down some but it made it more enjoyable. Inside it was just crowded, not packed like sardines as in past years. I'd like to know how it was Saturday. As with all things I guess it's a matter of prespective but I love Dayton and can't wait till next year. I don't think some realize that the planning for next year's Hamvention is already going on and some of the planning takes place years in advance (like contracting for Hara Arena). My hats off to DARA! Michael
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by K2GW on May 20, 2008
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>>What's NOT to love? How about:
>>1 - $500 round trip plane ticket to get there
>>2 - $100 Rental car
>>3 - $250 2 nite stay in Hotel
>>Thats $850 spent ... not much left over to spend
at the show.
Only if you insist on living on a champagne budget.
My two friends and I attended our 8th straight Hamvention traveling from NJ on Thursday and returning on Sunday. It's much cheaper than that to attend for two full days.
Brand new rental car from Enterpise: $127 / 3 = $43
Gasoline: $145/ 3 =$48
Tolls: $30/3 = $10
Total transportation cost per person: $101.
3 nights in a clean, new Super 8 in Miamisburg w/ breakfast included: $165 (Note that we each had our own private rooms at that rate.)
Ticket: $20
Thus, it really only costs $285 to attend (plus food, but you still have to eat if you stay home).
I don't know where else you can have a four day vacation and have so much fun at such a reasonable cost.
73
Gary, K2GW
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by W8ZIP on May 20, 2008
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Dayton is a good time. It is what you make of it.
My advice is to try to make the trip once.
I am looking forward to field day!
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What's Not to Love?
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by N0AH on May 20, 2008
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As long the work is not outsourced to VU or BA, I guess it all sounds fine to me (-:
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What's Not to Love?
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by K1CJS on May 20, 2008
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I can't speak about the actual experience of going, I live a little far away from the venue. But I'd hazard a guess that high fuel prices put a crimp in everybodys plans--some, to attend, and the others who did go, to spend. Not only the people who attend to go to the demos and seminars and see everything thats new, but the vendors and flea-marketers also were hit in the pocketbook this year.
To answer the question about how non-attendance can help a company with their bottom line, you've got to realize that shipping the wares and the display advertizing for your company is no small matter these days--fuel costs increase the costs of everything. And you've not only got to ship all the stuff out there, you've got to ship what doesn't sell back to your business.
Check a couple of shipping invoices if you can and you'll see fuel surcharges are at an all time high. Add to that the possible costs of paying your people for their room and board while up there, and their actual paycheck (if you can't get volunteers to man your display). All those items eat up even more profits.
Put everything together and you have larger costs than ever before--and if you can't count on excellent attendance in order to sell your stuff (these days with the fuel costs so high, you'd be a fool to think everybody will still come and spend) and you're gonna come out in the red for a bottom line for the event. If you can't count on more sales after the event--especially this year when things are bad--you would be foolish to spend and not break even.
The internet has done wonders for sales of hard to find merchandise and equipment--but its also had the detrimental effect of killing the hamfest venues in terms of sales. You want something, why wait? Order it online, get it now, and save the cost of going to a hamfest. Just my opinion--my .02, so to speak.
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by 5R8GQ on May 20, 2008
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Went there one year but got there on a Sunday. The Flea Market was very disapointing, I guess all the good stuff was taken. As for the rest of it, not especially fun being jostled by drunk, rude, FAT, "Good "Old Boy" with their callsign on their hat and HT's hanging from their belts and suspenders.
Warm beer and cold hot dogs. BLECHH!
Why are there more enormously fat people from the Mid West of the USA than in any other section? Is it the diet? Someone explain that to me please. If this even was held in California the people would look a lot different.
The vendors seemed bored and didn't want to talk to you unless you were looking at a $2,000 rig. I was supremely unimpressed.
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by K1CJS on May 20, 2008
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Tom, N6AJR writes:
"I haven't been to Dayton,yet, but may go some day. I happen to be one of those "old Fat Fellows in one of those electric carts."
As much as it pains me to have to reiterate this every couple of months I would like to let you know wyh I use my cart.......
......I try to be very careful not to run into folks and be sensitive to the needs of others. I have yet to run over my first person."
Hello Tom. Yes, there are people such as yourself who depend on mobility scooters in order to be able to get around and live a life rather than just have an existence. My heart goes out to you and those others, and I wish you all well. Like you have said, you have yet to run into or hurt anyone, and you are courteous to others--but there are others who aren't as courteous, who aren't as careful, or that just don't care if they do hurt someone. And its those few that give all scooter users a bad reputation.
As sad as those incidents are, there are also those people who walk around--and who act the same exact way! They're there and too bad if you--on your scooter--need to get something there or if you want to get by. There is absolutely NO excuse for that--yet we still have to see the people who need and use scooters complain about those instances.
Courtesy and common sense have gone the way of the bald eagle--all but extinct. Maybe its time we petitioned the government to have THEM declared an 'endangered species'.
73 Tom! Hope to work you on the bands someday.
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by K8MHZ on May 20, 2008
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"Courtesy and common sense have gone the way of the bald eagle--all but extinct. Maybe its time we petitioned the government to have THEM declared an 'endangered species'."
Hey Chris,
Not so in Western Michigan. We have bald eagles and real nice people here in abundance.
Come up and check it out sometime.
Clue: The summer is the best...
73
Mark K8MHZ
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by WK9L on May 20, 2008
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Well another great Dayton for me.I am very lucky I live evey close I have made 20 so far, I am only 47 years old! I hope to make another 20! The bathrooms were clean and I did not smell one person's B.O.!
There is nothing like Dayton and guys the reason it is call Dayton is because it is in Dayton,Oh so that means it is not close to everyone (duh). But honestly it is worth the trouble, at lest to me. I am a fleamarket man my self I always try to get enough junk to re fill the junk box after winter projects.
K9NZ
ex:wk9l
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by G3RZP on May 21, 2008
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Attendance seemed well down this year. A long way? Well, yes. About 5500 miles each way when you fly London - Dallas - Dayton, although I used a lot of FF miles and travelled in the luxury of first class. Had all the fun of seeing old friends again - I've only missed 2 Daytons since 1992, and last year was because of being hospitalised. The flea market was disappointingly empty, and my big spend was 10 reels of plastic tape at $1 a throw!
But I regard it as more of a social event than somewhere to spend money - I've so much stuff that I haven't room for any more. I also seem to know more people at Hamvention than I do at any of the UK events.....there's a moral there somewhere. But I aim to be there again next year.
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by K1CJS on May 21, 2008
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"Not so in Western Michigan. We have bald eagles and real nice people here in abundance.
Come up and check it out sometime.
Clue: The summer is the best..."
I just might take you up on that, Mark. 73.
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by DREWCAREY on May 21, 2008
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People get fat because they eat more than their body needs. So, if you cannot exercise, your body needs less food. Eat less. It is amazing how fat Americans have become compared to people in the rest of the world.
The problem with carts and their drivers is that they run into people. Every year I have seen these careless cart drivers running into people and hurting them without even caring.
My favorite overweight cart driver was the guy who kept pushing his cart through the thick crowd at the Icom booth to get up to the front by the stage to get a free pocket protector and sticker. This is just plain nuts.
The Hamvention should limit those stupid carts to only those people who have a real disability. Over eating is not a disability, it is a choice. Other Hamvention attendees should not have to tolerate those carts running into their legs and ankles because of someone else's poor choice.
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Had a great time.....
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by K3GM on May 21, 2008
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I drove out with three of my old pals from 3-land. Lot's of laughs, 550 miles each way of talking and debating, dining together and hoisting a few brews, it just couldn't be better. For me, that's half the fun of the yearly journey; spending time with your buddies. It's talking about and doing stuff our wives just don't appreciate! The cool wx was great, and we had sun everyday, with only a brief, fleeting spritz on Friday. Came home with bargain Heliax and Superflex, a new Rig Blaster, and lots of other small flea market stuff. I think I agree with another post regarding the Hara. Yes, it's a dump, but it's part of the allure; what's around the next corner of that place. I'd like them to take out the vendors that don't belong at the Hamvention; ladders, cheap jewelry, and other stuff marginally related to amateur radio. Still, we had great time.
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by K3EY on May 21, 2008
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N6AJR
There but for the grace of God go I
God Bless You Sir---my wife is disabled not heavy but so what the same thing---can't move at all.
It's a damn shame you felt compelled to write what you did because of some unthinking individual who doesn't realize his own blessings and takes for granted everything a lot of folks will never have. It’s real easy to run your mouth--- it’s also the sign of a insecure and very lost soul.
------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to the people who painted the Dayton 2008 picture for people like me who never make it due to pressing family issues and other personal matters.
73 Curt
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by KB1SF on May 21, 2008
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Every year, the question gets asked, "Why Dayton"? What is it about the Hamvention that makes it THE premier Amateur Radio event in the United States year after year?
Having lived and worked in Dayton (and been a member of the Dayton Amateur Radio Association…DARA) for some 30 years of my life, I've come to believe the reasons for Hamvention's success are many and varied. Some have to do with geography and demographics. But a lot of it has to do with the hard work of the hundreds of volunteers and others who help put it on.
For starters, I invite you to draw a "one day's drive" circle around Dayton, Ohio and then look at all the major metropolitan areas in both the USA and Canada that that circle includes. I think it's safe to say that most of the population of our two countries (along with the majority of our respective Ham Radio populations) live within a day's drive of Hamvention. That means most people can carpool and drive to it (rather than take other, far more expensive modes of transportation)to get there.
Then, there is the large population of Hams who reside in the Dayton area. Arguably, nowhere else in the USA (except, perhaps in California) is there a greater per-capita concentration of Hams who live or work in and around the Dayton, Ohio metro area. This is probably due to the large concentration of US Defense Department activities (including Wright-Patterson AFB…Ohio's largest single employer…with its numerous high-tech laboratories and weapons system development activities) as well as other major "high-tech" commercial activities (National Cash Register used to also be a major Dayton employer) present in the area just to name a few. Nearby Miamisburg used to also be the home of the R.L. Drake Company (manufacturers of a long line of Amateur Radio equipment) for many, many years as well.
And, because there are so many Hams living in the local Dayton area, that also means the Hamvention's promoters have an ample supply of Amateur Radio enthusiasts ready, willing and able to volunteer their time to help put on the show. At one point, I recall hearing that it took upwards of 400-600 volunteers to successfully run Hamvention.
And, because DARA has now been doing Hamvention for so many years at the same venue, they really have it down to a science. Unlike many other hamfests I've attended over they years, nobody can just leap in and be the "head honcho" of Hamvention.
Rather, DARA employs a finely tuned vetting process, whereby Hamvention General Chairman "wannabes" must work their way up through a multi-year hierarchy of ever-increasing responsibilities before they are allowed to take their turn as General Chairman. This means that, by the time they get to be the "head honcho", they've "been there and done that" not once, but numerous times. Needless to say, the resident corporate knowledge aspects of Hamvention (an all-volunteer operation) are phenomenal.
What's more, the planning that goes into Hamvention is perpetual. This means that, right now, weekly meetings and time-consuming plans are already being made for next years' Hamvention, as well as insuring that Hamvention retains continuing access to Hara Arena.
And, speaking of access to Hara, as one previous poster has so eloquently observed, Hara Arena has, quite literally, grown up around the Hamvention. In fact, several years ago DARA had reason to believe that their continuing access to Hara might be in jeopardy. As a result, Hamvention planners started (quietly) looking for other venues in the area that might be able to accommodate the show.
However, after considering numerous other venues in places as far distant as Columbus, Indianapolis and Cincinnati, they were unable to find a venue that offered the same combination of inside vendor display space and outdoor flea market space as Hara Arena. The bottom line here is that those who sponsor Hamvention year after year continually say a silent prayer that nothing untoward will ever happen to Hara Arena (or the Hamvention's access to it). Otherwise, the Dayton Hamvention (as we have all come to know and love it) might very well become just a distant memory.
And, finally, as I have said, there are the hundreds of people…vendors, organizers, security people; bus drivers, food providers and janitorial staff…who make Hamvention "go". I know…as a former President of AMSAT-NA (as well as a local Dayton area resident) I was one of them for many, many years. Few hams who simply attend Hamvention have the slightest clue as to the tremendous amount of work involved in transporting and then setting up and tearing down our large display booths as well as in standing around for hours on end meeting and greeting people. And, while most folks who visit our booths are a friendly lot, after having been on your feet (not to mention sleep deprived!) for the better part of a week, it is tough to remain cheerful when some ignorant gnome steps up to your booth and begins complaining about what you (or your organization) doesn't do (or have) for them.
My hat remains off to all those who make Hamvention "go". Over the years, it has become part of the fabric of who we are and what we do.
And, may it forever remain so!
73,
Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF
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by K5ADF on May 21, 2008
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This was my ninth year in the last ten attending Hamvention. I am not sure why I waited so long to attend but glad that I finally took the initiative. It was a long way from my QTH (1300 miles) and for the third time I traveled by car. I have the time now that I have joined the senior group and retired.
The swap booths were fewer this year and the attendance did seem to be down. Fewer people made it easier to get around and talk to the many vendors present, so that was a plus. Kenwood did have an interesting display of ways to use their newest VHF/UHF radio. I noticed that several other vendors had displays of ways to use their equipment. I did manage to come home with a new ICOM 7000 to replace my 706 MkIIG in my truck. That may have turned out to be a good move considering the rumor that ICOM is preparing to raise prices 10 to 20%.
The forums that I attended were full particularly the D-STAR, which is encouraging. As always it was a SRO crowd to listen to Bill Cross and Riley Hollingsworth. The forums are a major reason I go to Dayton. All the movers and shakers in the ham world are there so that you can hear what they have to say and ask questions.
Hara arena is long in tooth and in need of extensive remodeling. The bathrooms were adequately clean given the heavy use. The electric carts can be annoying. I saw one cart driver who had a horn on his and was using it to push through the crowd in the arena. There are those who truly need the cart (majority) and those who are just too lazy (minority)and need to walk. The beer was cold in the pub but not in the "street" booths. I did not eat any of the food but chose to bring my own sandwich that I bought beforehand at the grocery. I also brought my own water.
I enjoyed the time with my many friends that I have made on the air and at Dayton. I look upon this as a vacation where I get to concentrate on ham radio much like the fisherman, hunter or golf enthusiast. It does require a monetary outlay just like any other activity. I did not save a lot of money by going but did have a great time.
I will be back in 2009 and the following years.
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by WQ3T on May 21, 2008
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Bob, while you were at Dayton, I was at home operating CW on 40 meters. Your callsign hasn't shown up in my log for some time. When will you pound the brass?
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by AE9Q on May 21, 2008
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This was my fifth year at the Dayton Hamvention. The first three were easy--I just drove over from Indianapolis with my HCARS club members. I have since moved to Alabama and now face a nine hour drive each way. As much as I enjoy seeing all of the ham gear (new and old) in one large place, what keeps me coming back is being able to get back together with my friends from the Indianapolis area. Technology and gadgets are great, but friendships (both local and DX) are what makes amateur radio great.
Dave
AE9Q
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by N9NWO on May 21, 2008
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I missed last year due to being in Afghanistan. Finally got to handle the K3 and the new Ten-Tec equipment.
The VX-8R was great, everyone I know is talking about buying one. Four bands (6, 2, 220, 440), APRS, and bluetooth! Plus it looks like a piece of military gear. It should come out in late June and be priced at $330 or so. Not sure about what the accessories are. The bluetooth BU-1, BH-1 and BH-2 seem to be the headset. Not sure if they plan to have hardwired GPS (with mike) or have it as a bluetooth option. The ad in Universal Radio has the battery at 7.4V, 1100 mAh but the rep said it was 1400 mAh. Actually got to handle the radio. http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/ht/0008.html. Would like to know how they plan to charge the batteries. And have a better idea of the options.
Also look at Argent Data. They is one of the more interesting APRS manufacturers. Their TNC is priced about $90. They are designing a small transceiver (5W) that would also house the TNC. It would sell for about $160. They have also been able to connect a Garmin Nuvi 350 so that the GPS unit displays APRS stations! http://www.argentdata.com/
It appears that Yaesu will not go with D-Star. My guess is that they will, eventually, go with P25. The Yaesu engineer I spoke with was not very interested in D-Star. P25 does fit better with how Motorola does business.
I hit the inside while the two guys I road with hit the flea market. Car pooling does make it far more affordable. One of the guys spend over $1000, his big goal was a Yaesu FT-857D (spent just over $600).
Dayton is fun. No other hamfest comes close. Thankfully I live within 3 hours of Dayton (and have family in Dayton).
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by W4VR on May 21, 2008
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Sounds like nothing has changed, except attendance and attendees showing signs of lack of exercise.
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by N6PSE on May 21, 2008
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I had a blast at Dayton 2008. What a great event! My hat is off to DARA for pulling this off year after year.
I have posted pictures from this year's Hamvention here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26802917@N05/
Paul N6PSE
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by W3HR on May 21, 2008
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YAAA! Another Dayton in the books. This was my second, after a 15-year hiatus, and I will be back for the 2009 Hamvention. As someone else mentioned, part of the fun is going with your friends and having a mini-vacation. I had just as much fun this year as last. The sparser (sic) crowds make for easier movement and is an odd benefit of the losing interest and numbers in the ham community. I am also glad there are not as many computer dealers there.
Saw the familiar faces of Gordon West and Bill Pasternak. Gordon had a goofy "game show" he was running at the W5YI booth, he's always a lot of fun that guy. The same US Tower girls and Icom girls were shakin' it in their booths, same as last year - it just isn't "Dayton" without some of these staples. Katie Breen with the ARRL is a newer friendly face and always pleasant to chat with.
Freebies and souveniers: Icom didn't give out any caps this year (at least that's what the girl at the booth told me), which is probably just as well since the ones they gave out last year had defective snaps and couldn't be worn. Kenwood gave away some nice cloth bags to carry around all your Dayton bargains, but I missed those. They mustn't have had many bags to give out, unlike the Yaesu booth, which had caps coming out of their ears when I passed by. Kenwood and CQ magazine had some nice lapel pins, and everybody seemed to be wearing one of those darned US Tower stickers, with the flashing LEDs in them! hihi. Yaesu had their own flashing LED sticker, too, but I didn't see a lot of those.
ANNOYANCES:
As mentioned numerous times, the "scooter people" were rampant. I can empathisize with those using them as I'm 350 lbs. and standing or walking for long periods of time gets taxing. I must say, it sure looked nice to be able to just sit down and navigate, however, I forced myself to lose some weight several weeks before Dayton and it helped a great deal. After the second day, I was good from the Hara workout - but beat. I had pulled a ligament in my leg from carrying too much luggage down the steps at the hotel on Thursday, so I was limping and sitting down a lot at the hamfest and just taking it slow. The day I have to use a scooter, however, will be the day I hang it up. I'll lose the weight first.
Incidentally, someone said diabetes causes the overweight condition. I think that's the other way around.
Regardless, most of the scooter people were careful, but one ol' gal came racing around a corner at top speed near Bob Heil's booth, through a crowd of people, and nearly ran us over. And one broad with a push cart ran it up on my leg from behind, causing me to stumble, and said nary a word about it. "Excuse me" or "I'm sorry" would have been appropriate.
The flea market had the usual hamfest offerings - only lots of them. And the typical high prices on junk. One guy had $3,000 on a broadcast VTR that is no longer in commercial use! It was probably worth $100. Things like this reminded me of my theory on hamfests: people will put outrageous prices on some items, not because they want to sell them, but because they want people to know they have them! Others don't seem to care one way or another if they sell anything or not... they just enjoy the social aspect of hamfesting.
I also suspect that some people bought flea market spaces just to get a good parking spot. There were many cars parked in spaces that didn't have corresponding tables set up.
>>---quote--- I watched the video on you tube and was very disappointed with the spokesperson Yaesu used. She was Japanese and could barely speak English and it was obvious she knew nothing about the radio.--end quote---<<
I saw this comment and watched said video. I think it was more like she knew nothing about ENGLISH, and was searching for the right words to describe the radio she is probably well-familiar with in her native tongue.
But I purely loved the Hamvention and I'm only sorry that I've missed so many of them through the years. I still haven't won anything; the closest I came was someone with a ticket 3 digits off from mine won a door prize this year - if you could call that close (I know the drawings are random). However, my friend won a door prize last year - his first Hamvention! What a memory to have.
See you at Dayton 2009!
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by W3HR on May 21, 2008
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Ooops, one other matter in the list of annoyances...
People who just stop in the middle of a flowing traffic line to talk or look. You'll be walking along and all of a sudden the guy in front of you just stops and stands there, blocking the way. It isn't diffcult to "pull over" to one side, so you're not obstructing the flow of traffic. You're not the only person there, ya know. >:(
10-to-1 they drive the same way out on the road.
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by K0NEB on May 21, 2008
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This was my 29th trip. I'd be amazed if the attendance was over 17K. It seemed down and the flea market was sparse..it looked like it did later on Sunday AM in past years. I think the high cost of gas affects flea market vendors driving big trucks, etc. more than attendees in cars/carpools/flying. I had great attendance in my Kit Building Forum, and picked up a few toys...and ogled the VX-8R. I have posted my latest slide shows set to music on YouTube at:
http://www.youtube.com/joehusker
Let me know what you think of them! See you in 2009!
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by W8UDX on May 21, 2008
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Ah, another year of whining about fat hams and stupid motorized carts. I was blessed to have been a member of the DARA back in the day and got to work, as a volunteer, the first three Hamventions when they were held downtown at the Dayton Biltmore Hotel. I got to meet many of the great ones; Danny, Art, Bob, Captain Kurt Carlsen of the Flying Enterprise and, of course, Barry. I also loved Hara’s. I attended my Senior Prom there and carved my initials, along with my dates, in a wooden support. Those initials are still there 50 years later, and, now, when I am fortunate enough to get back to Dayton on an annual pilgrimage, I try to get my stupid motorized cart close enough to those initials to touch them and relieve some beautiful memories; of both Sue Ann and my days with a DX-100. It is a shame that for many years, while being in the areas of Viet Nam, Cambodia, Laos, I was never allowed to be the DX. I was too busy earning the privilege of spending my later years in a stupid motorized cart. Ease up gentlemen. Diversity is not described by just the most popular PC terminology of the day. The next time you see one of us old farts in a cart, why not join in some fraternal banter and ask us why we are stuck with round wheels and a Schlitz Tumor. We have some great tales to tell. Remember, it is easy to sit down on a chair to have an eyeball QSO with us.
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What's Not to Love?
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by NA4D on May 21, 2008
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I couldn't have said it any better myself. I have only missed one Hamvention since 1977. I don't get back home to Kentucky before I am looking forward to the next one. I hate it when there are two forums that I want to attend but that are on at the same time. Oh well, better to have too much to pick from than too little. Lloyd NA4D
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by N6AJR on May 21, 2008
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Amen to that my friend. I would love to take my cart and run it off a cliff, but it does allow me to partake of some part of a normal life. And the carts are easier to deal with than the powered chairs. So the comment of another year of folks complaing about us is I guess par for the course.
O to be able to walk out to th e mail box and back with out a rest or a cart, would be such a joy.
I sadly agree the price of freedom for this country is sometimes a hidden cost. But then again, us Nam Vets have always been treated poorly, so what is new...
73 and gud DX to all.
Remember fat folks in scooters have feelings too.
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What's Not to Love? EVERYTHING!
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by W6PMR on May 21, 2008
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I have said it before and I'm saying it again but this West coast Ham is NOT going to take a week off, spend a LARGE amount of money and time to get there, enjoy,(yeah,right) midwest weather, to go an old, falling apart venue and pay top dollar for swap items and hotel rooms.
If you work and/or have obligations and live thousands of miles away, Dayton is just not in the cards.
Every time I say this, wealthy and/or retired Hams and everyone who lives close enough to drive has the same old comebacks.
Now if someone wants to move the Hamvention to Vegas,.......I'm there! Paul.
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by KA0YKO on May 21, 2008
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I go to Dayton every other year (this year was my "off" year) and always enjoy it. I fear for next year's event because of the high gas prices ($6+ or $7+ per gallon?) but if I do go, it is always after careful planning. I like the forums - where else can you go from one room where you met a Shuttle Astronaut and into the next one with a Nobel Prize winner in Physics? (As I did a few years ago.)
The fellowship is great, the food is good (I especially like Lonestar steakhouse), and the whole place is "radioactive" and a lot of fun. Thanks again DARA and please keep up the good work!
It's a shame we have to deal with the pathetic trolls who frequent forums like this because their local bath-house is closed ("DREWCARRY" and the goof-ball who thinks a call-sign begins with "5") but that's the way it is sometimes.
My friend Mark is one of those suffering from diabetes and must ride a cart if he is to enjoy this great event. It would indeed be justice if the aformentioned trolls were to spend their later years having to deal with problems like his.
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by N5NA on May 22, 2008
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"...and the goof-ball who thinks a call-sign begins with "5"..."
Guess you need to learn more about callsigns. Look it up on QRZ.
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What's Not to Love?
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by KN4LF on May 22, 2008
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N6AJR said: As much as it pains me to have to reiterate this every couple of months I would like to let you know wyh I use my cart.
KN4LF says: The age here is 51. I suffered a devastating back injury in 1978 while working for Uncle Sam. I have been wracked by rheumatoid and osteo-arthritis since 1988 and have been a diabetic since 1985.
I'm just about as disabled as they come. My height is 5' 10" and I weigh 188 lbs. I'm not overweight and using a social security mobile scooter as I watch what I eat and exercise.
I know that I'm being politically incorrect but the majority of people using the scooters are lazy and over eat, a self inflicted situation. Most also have the rude self entitlement attitude.
73 & God Bless,
Thomas Giella, KN4LF
Lakeland, FL, US
http://www.kn4lf.com
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RE: What's Not to Love? EVERYTHING!
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by KI6LO on May 22, 2008
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Being from the left coast (California), I actually considered going to Dayton this year. I was going to meet up with some buddies from that area and surely we would have had a good time. But with inconvience of flying these days, the airlines starting to charge you for every little thing ($15 for the first bag, $25 for the second, where does it stop) and the price of tickets, flying is out of the question. Cross country by car at nearly $4 a gallon has also shot that mode down. So I just stayed out here and read about all the issues that people had going or not going to Dayton.
I surely hope that they have rehabilatated the Arena since I was last there in the late 80's. It was about to fall apart back then and I felt it may should have been condemned. I had a good time at Dayton that year seeing all the latest toys of that time but it was just way too crowded for me.
Heck I don't even get to see my parents back in the Midwest but every other year so I'm not inclined to blow a wad of cash and time to go to Dayton again.
Like someone said, bring it to Las Vegas and I'll be there too.
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by OBSERVER11 on May 22, 2008
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I'd like to know more about the IC-7200. The teaser on the back of CQ got my attention, but alas, for the first time since 1974, due to health reasons, I had to miss the Hamvention. I could not even use a ham-about... maybe next year I'll run into y'all.
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RE: What's Not to Love? EVERYTHING!
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by N7YA on May 22, 2008
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"Now if someone wants to move the Hamvention to Vegas,.......I'm there! Paul"
NOW were talking!! Im there too...in fact, im already here. Come out and visit Paul, Me and the large number of hams in vegas.
Heres why there should be a "New Dayton" in Las Vegas. Need a hotel? come on, its Vegas! Next, need a convention hall to put the show in? need it to be big enough? Again...were loaded with them...big and small. Resturants? entertainment? (namely one of my bands on our company roster), good weather...albeit hot as Hades in summer, customer oriented people everywhere you go on the strip. Lake Mead, Hoover Dam, airport right off the strip, freeway right off the strip. We also have a full scale AES store here with a real nice and friendly staff. Besides, theres any type of music, food, etc that you could want...if you cant get it in Vegas, you cant get it. Not to mention, airlines always have travel deals to Vegas all year long.
I mean, its a no brainer...Dayton better watch its back. we've got them beat in so many areas. Its no longer just Italian mobsters and showgirls everywhere you look...its grown into a serious destination. Some very brilliant folks put a lot of thought into making Las Vegas everything it can be and more...its been too long, move the show out here. I promise, if they move it here, the vendors will start showing up again.
73...Adam, N7YA
P.S...no, i dont work for the tourist board, i play music for a living...i will always have work in this town. I just want to see the show move here, its a sure fire bet....and by the way, 5R is assigned to Madagascar, its a real call....and i still need them.
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RE: What's Not to Love? EVERYTHING!
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by N7YA on May 22, 2008
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Yep, thats another effect of vegas...its hard to find someone who isnt game for the trip. :-)
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What's Not to Love?
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by N9NWO on May 23, 2008
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In reading the comments, it would make sense to have a hamvention in the late fall in either Vega or Reno. What clubs are in those two towns? Anyone here belong to a club in NV?
Remember, Dayton is a local club, not the ARRL, who runs this. However it would make sense to have Dayton and Vega/Reno hamvention every year.
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RE: What's Not to Love? EVERYTHING!
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by N9NWO on May 23, 2008
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RE: What's Not to Love? EVERYTHING! Reply
by N7YA on May 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
"Now if someone wants to move the Hamvention to Vegas,.......I'm there! Paul"
NOW were talking!! Im there too...in fact, im already here. Come out and visit Paul, Me and the large number of hams in vegas.
Heres why there should be a "New Dayton" in Las Vegas. Need a hotel? come on, its Vegas! Next, need a convention hall to put the show in? need it to be big enough? Again...were loaded with them...big and small. Resturants? entertainment? (namely one of my bands on our company roster), good weather...albeit hot as Hades in summer, customer oriented people everywhere you go on the strip. Lake Mead, Hoover Dam, airport right off the strip, freeway right off the strip. We also have a full scale AES store here with a real nice and friendly staff. Besides, theres any type of music, food, etc that you could want...if you cant get it in Vegas, you cant get it. Not to mention, airlines always have travel deals to Vegas all year long.
I mean, its a no brainer...Dayton better watch its back. we've got them beat in so many areas. Its no longer just Italian mobsters and showgirls everywhere you look...its grown into a serious destination. Some very brilliant folks put a lot of thought into making Las Vegas everything it can be and more...its been too long, move the show out here. I promise, if they move it here, the vendors will start showing up again.
73...Adam, N7YA
P.S...no, i dont work for the tourist board, i play music for a living...i will always have work in this town. I just want to see the show move here, its a sure fire bet....and by the way, 5R is assigned to Madagascar, its a real call....and i still need them. UNQUOTE
Ok, Adam, is your local club willing to put in on like the Dayton ham club does? After all, it is a LOCAL club, not the ARRL, who runs the Dayton hamvention.
We could use two hamventions, one in Dayton in May and one in October in Vega (or Reno).
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RE: What's Not to Love? EVERYTHING!
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by AD7DB on May 23, 2008
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"Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it."
Las Vegas has been tried. Several times, by different groups over the years. There was once a big annual ham event called SAROC, which faded into oblivion sometime in the late 1970's. Since then there have been others. The only current ham event I am aware of in Vegas is the ham reception during the NAB convention (National Association of Broadcasters) and it's little more than a door-prize giveaway and a couple of interesting speakers.
Round trip airline ticket to Dayton: $500
Two nights in a Dayton motel room: $400
Hamburger and a soda at the Hamvention: $7.00
Meeting lots of old friends and other hams you have never met in person before: Priceless.
For some thing's there's MonsterCard. Because the fleamarket vendors don't take American Express!
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by K5ADF on May 23, 2008
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So everyone is wanting Hamvention to move to LV or other location. Remember that Hamvention is put on by DARA, the local Dayton ham club and that it uses all VOLUNTEERS. Hamvention does not suddenly happen, rather it takes a lot of work all year. Hamvention is not going to move across the country. My hat is off to the volunteers who make Hamvention possible. I enjoy the event and plan to be back next year.
If the LV or other group wants to have a hamfest like Hamvention, then they need to put in the hard work to make it happen. If there was to be a hamfest in LV like Hamvention, then I would attend. So how about it LV hams are you willing to put in the hard work to make it happen?
The Orlando hams put on HamCation in February. While they have not reached the status of Hamvention they are on the rise. I have been going for several years now and each year it gets better with more new equipment vendors, larger flea market and more suppliers present. The weather in Orlando in February has been really nice in past years. Try it, you might like it.
I am not a member of the Dayton or Orlando ham group. I live in San Antonio where I have for over three decades. I am a retired engineer who worked in the IT field. I enjoy going to Hamvention and HamCation just like I enjoy my other leisure trips.
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by W3HR on May 23, 2008
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The Dayton Hamvention cannot be "moved" somewhere else. In case you haven't noticed, it's the DAYTON Amateur Radio Association's baby.
Want a hamfest in Vegas? Then START one in Vegas.
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RE: What's Not to Love? EVERYTHING!
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by WA6ITF on May 23, 2008
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Well, since 1977 this West Coast ham has been making an annual pilgrimage to the Dayton Hamvention. And if one learns the "art" of travel to a destination for a pre-planned event, it does not have to cost an arm, leg and two eye-teeth.
For example, this year flying from Kos Angeles to NYC then on to Dayton and back to Los Angeles cost only $436. No hotel costs in NYC because I stayed with my brother-in-law on West 59th overlooking Central Park. I did go to see three shows: "Les Paul anfd his Trio at the Iridium Jazz Club," Mel Brooks new Broadway musical "Young Frankenstein" and the Kander/Ebb/Holmes musical "Curtains." Total cost for tickets -- all purchased on-line a few weeks ago from consolidators -- was about $220. Not bad when you consider the face price of tickets to both the Broadway shows was @140 each incl tax and fees.
Getting around NYC -- get a Metrocard. I have one and reloaded it so its good another year.
Flew to Dayton vis Detroit. Only complaint -- Im getting to big for the tiny seats in a RJ-65 regional jet.
In Dayton I met up with and shared the cost of a car with Henry K2SSQ. We stayed in Xenia with the friends we have been staying with the past 28 years.
I agree with Joe, K0NEB's assessment of the show. We are both "regulars" and have a pretty good feel for how a year has gone.
My biggest surprise: The number of folks who came over asking how they could borrow or buy a DVD of the 1968 film "the Hams Wide World" that we ran at the "Town Meeting" forum. When Dave Bell, W6AQ, who produced it (he was W6BVN back then) and I were planning the session, we knew it was taking a risk that it might bore some newer licensees. The results were just the opposite -- young and old -- newcomer and seasoned vet -- all loved it. This, even though the DVD was from a 20 year old transfer of the last projectable print of that movie. To which Ill add that Im not selling DVD's of this show -- nor is Dave. If you want a copy contact the ARRL Public Relations Office in Newington. The show is theirs -- not mine. I just happened to have a passable 16 mm print and access to a TV film Chain some two decades ago.
Some other random thoughts. While there are no official numbers, it seemed visually obvious that the Hara Arena was not overcrowded and neither was the Flea Market.
Even if it proves out that the crowd was smaller, it was definitely a "spending" one. I personally saw a lot of high end radios being purchased including a lot of Icom 7800's and Yaesu 9000's -- even with the rumored software recall upgrade. Thats serious money as there were not very many discounts being offered on this high end gear.
Nor were there any major new product announcements this year. Yaesu had its VX-8R quad-band HT. Icom had its ruggedized HF radio for the emcomm community, but unlike 2007 when there as a myriad of new products, this year nothing really caught peoples imagination.
If there was any truly big looser it was those waiting for a second source for D-Star transceivers and HT's in the hope that would bring competition and possibly drive prices down. But it seems that only Icom plans to support D-Star in the America, so prices will likely remain unchanged (tho with the weakening US dollar vs. the strengthening Japan Yen, actual prices for all ham gear made off-shore will likely see a significant price hike in the months to come -- as will everything else made outside of the U.S.A.).
I kept hearing that there were lots of kids at this years Hamvention. Only one problem -- I saw very few. My friend Carole Perry had a number for her Youth Forum, but these were the same few kids I saw throughout the Hamvention weekend. Many were the same ones as the past few years -- only a bit older. What real significance this has is relative because given a chance to go to a hamfest with some of us "old goats" or sit in front of a monitor and surf the web, most kids will choose the latter.
The big news: Hollingsworth announced through the ARRL -- rather than at the FCC Forum -- that he is retiring from the FCC this July -- providing that the California Pave Paws vs 70 cm repeater issue is settled by then.
Also from the FCC -- this time from Bill Cross at the FCC Forum -- that the FCC is considering a request from the Northern California Packet Assn. which asked for a definitive clarification on what is and what is not a repeater. Cross says to expect that decision out shortly -- also that it will be applicable to all repeaters -- not just D-Star and P-25. It will be of interest to see if the FCC sides with those who claim a repeater that has any inherent delay because of circuitry is not a repeater and can operate where it desires or with those who say anything that relays in real time or near real time is a repeater and must be constrained to operation within established repeater subbands. Bill Cross would not even give a hint as to which way the FCC is leaning on this issue -- but once it come out, one side or the other will be unhappy.
Also, while not stated outright, the FCC gave some very broad hints that its pointless for hams to request regulatory changes that will restrict growth or restrict the introduction of new technologies. Its a deregulatory rather than a re-regulatory FCC we must deal with and right now ham radio matters are far from being on the top of its agenda. Especially since this is an election year.
In relation to this, Cross talked at length about the recently denied Miller petition dealing with bandwidth and digital modes. In a nutshell, it was denied because the FCC does not want to impose any re-regulation that might hamper introduction of new technologies -- but its not going to go out of its way to create rules to protect current or legacy technologies either. Thats for us hams to do by our own agreements.
And while I do not want to parenthetically put words in anyones mouth, and though Miller never used the term Winlink in his petition, the FCC at Dayton referred to it in that term during part of its presentation explaining why part of the Miller petition was denied. I plan to run that audio bite on the next Newsline Newscast to be released on Friday at www.arnewsline.org Hap Holly will be running the entire FCC Forum over the next two week at his www.therainreport.com website.
So I go back to my opening line. To describe this years Hamvention, the first word that comes to mind is subdued. But with the nice weather we had -- I do not think anyone wanted to get upset over anything. Even all my flights were on time -- for a change.
de WA6ITF
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by KC8HQX on May 23, 2008
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I passed the test and got my General at Dayton this year. What's not to love!?! Woo-hoo!
Incidentally, my friend heard that somewhere around 50% of people were failing their test. Troublesome numbers to me, but perhaps people were taking blind shots at it since it was free.
Doug / KC8HQX
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by N7YA on May 24, 2008
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Ok, ok, ok....i was just throwing it out there. Keep it in Dayton in that run down arena, im ok with that. I stand by everything i said about Vegas. Unfortunately, im not in any position whatsoever to start a hamfest in Vegas...otherwise i would. I certainly wasnt throwing my hat into the ring to actually start a hamvention here....i wouldnt know where to begin.
Another thing, my mistake...i didnt realize how the whole deal works. I wasnt aware of how these things run and im not sure if the local club can set anything up like that. So Dayton it is.
First i read lamenting about how much Dayton sucks, then i read about how great it is...IF....and i mean IF there is ever a convention in Vegas of that magnitude, the facilities and everything i mentioned before will be exceptional. But, alas, it seems that Dayton will be the aging king of the hamvention world from here on out....or until the roof caves in on all the moto-carts and magnetic bracelet stands.
Im not sure if they still do it, but AES has a swap meet in front of the store the first saturday of every month. Either way, guys....enjoy the hamvention, i wish you happy hunting and a successful mission to explain the frivolous purchases to your wife.
And i just wanted to clarify, i certainly meant no disrespect to the fine hams of Dayton, and especially the hardworking club who hosts the Hamvention.
...but if any left coast hams with enough capital and motivation want to start something like this in the west, you know where to bring it.
73...Adam, N7YA
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by N9NWO on May 24, 2008
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N7YA is not atypical in his misunderstanding of how the Dayton Hamvention works. For some reason most Americans assume that only big organizations can do anything, that the little guys are totally helpless. In amateur radio, it is all little guys.
My guess is that the Vegas hams are basically too busy to put the effort into a hamfest of this size. Here in the midwest we live slower lives which allow time for service. Plus Dayton is a tradition that has grown over decades (since the late 1950s) thus there is a lot of structure already in place for the Hamvention.
I did a little research. Columbus Day weekend (October) would be perfect time for a Los Vegas Hamvention. Now, who in the NV ham community wants to put it together? Based on what ARRL has listed, there are no hamfests even scheduled for NV this year.
Here are some ham clubs in NV
http://www.lvrac.org Las Vegas Ham Club
http://www.hxo.com Las Vegas repeater association
http://www.narri.org NV repeater association
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/w7fun Carson City
http:// www.frontierars.org Frontier ARS
http://www.renoqrp.org Reno QRP group
http://wadg.org Wide Area data group
So guys, are you up for a Columbus Day weekend Hamvention in LV?
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by K5UJ on May 24, 2008
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As others have said, L.V. has been tried. L.V. is a professional convention town which means that running a trade show there costs $$$. How many hams will pay a 200 or 300 dollar registration fee? That's one thing that would be needed in order for a ham organization to afford the costs of a L.V. show. But hams complain about the measly $20 a Dayton ticket costs.
I'm not real wild about Dayton as a QTH and I've never been a Hara Arena fan but it does have the advantage (to me) of being not too far away. But any other place is going to have to be a town that does not have a trade show rep. (forget big cities in other words--they cost too much) and is near the center of the U.S. to make the distance travelled as close to fair for everyone as possible. Any town that's small enough to be cheap but big enough to host around 20,000 hams with an indoor facility that can hold all the vendors and forums and is near the geographic center of the country. Omaha Neb. comes to mind.
Another key requirement is enough local hams willing to work to make the whole thing fly. And that's not a trivial requirement.
<<<People get fat because they eat more than their body needs. So, if you cannot exercise, your body needs less food. Eat less. It is amazing how fat Americans have become compared to people in the rest of the world.
[Blah Blah Blah...]
The Hamvention should limit those stupid carts to only those people who have a real disability. Over eating is not a disability, it is a choice. Other Hamvention attendees should not have to tolerate those carts running into their legs and ankles because of someone else's poor choice.>>>
How about printing this out and reading it to all the guys on carts face to face at the next Hamvention? Oh, but you'd rather hide and insult people at a safe distance hiding behind a fake name right? You're a real sweetheart you are.
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by N6AJR on May 24, 2008
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Well we do have a couple of good starts on the California ham fests. There is Visalia, Pacificon and the get together at M2 every spring. We could probably run with one of those if we had a larger venue to hold them at, and better support form the vendors..
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by OBSERVER11 on May 24, 2008
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"The Hamvention should limit those stupid carts to only those people who have a real disability. Over eating is not a disability, it is a choice. Other Hamvention attendees should not have to tolerate those carts running into their legs and ankles because of someone else's poor choice.>>>
How about printing this out and reading it to all the guys on carts face to face at the next Hamvention? Oh, but you'd rather hide and insult people at a safe distance hiding behind a fake name right? You're a real sweetheart you are."
--------------------
yes, if one of these hide behind the keyboard crybabies were to whine to me face to face, I am afraid that one of us would be going to the Montgomery Co jail, and the other to the hospital.
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by K0NEB on May 24, 2008
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Omaha has the Qwest Center...perfect for it, but not enough hams within a 6 hour drive. I live in Lincoln, but born and raised and work in Omaha, and can tell you that indeed Qwest is a perfect facility...but the cost would be a lot higher than Hara and I hate to say it, but the hotels there gouge, too, like during the College World Series in June and the Berkshire Hathaway (Warren Buffet's Woodstock for capitalists) stockholders meeting in May. Each of those events bring about 30,000-40,000 visitors to the area. Omaha has many wonderful attractions, like the Henry Doorly Zoo (don't laugh..it is truly spectacular!) and the Old Market, but it could never host Hamvention. Hamvention is in Dayton because of where Dayton is..within 6 hours drive of many major matro areas. Omaha is not. I take my hat off to the hundreds of volunteers at DARA that put this on and still only charge $20 a head to get in. Absolutely amazing! Hamvention is DARA's and will always be. As Jim said at the prize drawings, It will be better than ever in 2009...see all of you next year!
de K0NEB
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Flea market needs condensed
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by W4UDX on May 25, 2008
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I agree that the flea market area is way too huge for the amount of vendors that set up. I heard (on user groups) that some vendors had trouble getting their space assignments. There is way too much walking to look at too few vendors. What happened to the large tent on the end with all the used and refurb laptops, parts and such? If DH is to survive, they are going to have to reorganize the whole shebang. They really need to rethink their space fees or this hamfest will die soon....
Are there any events similar to what DH was 20 years ago within driving distance of central KY?
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by DREWCAREY on May 25, 2008
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"yes, if one of these hide behind the keyboard crybabies were to whine to me face to face, I am afraid that one of us would be going to the Montgomery Co jail, and the other to the hospital."
Your comment was not too surprising. It was always the big fat kid on the playground who was the bully. I guess it carries forward into the adult years except the bullies now ride around on scooters and carts.
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by W8AAZ on May 26, 2008
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They ain't gonna move the HV to another state. Why not one of you hot organisers building up one of your fests to compete with them? I think they should repave the flea market, drop costs to try to fill it up! And don't scrimp on portolets. But the money to fix it up would be from the Hara family, they must be resting on their laurels now. I have been going since 73 as I recall. This year I actually got tired of walking the flea market, must be old age creeping in, along with the heavy sack full of goodies? Well if attendance ever drops below a certain point, there is a new convention venue at rt. 68 and interstate 71 just 30 miles south of Dayton that would be a much nicer facility. But it could not contain what is there now. I expect that maybe the flea market might be eaten up by internet sales before too long. But that could affect all hamfests. Ebay will get you more for that old rig in most cases. Thus one less reason to get out and walk the flea market and get exercise, set in front of your rig all day and have new stuff come to your front door!
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What's Not to Love?
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by K9CTB on May 26, 2008
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Thanks for a great, upbeat article!!
....and THEN, all the "EXPERTS" come out....
Geez, guys....BHMs, BBWs ... whether carts, walkers, or just plain Chuck Taylors ... we're all hams, remember?
Rodney King said it best, I think. And even then, it was *after* he was run over by the cart!
73 de Neil
K9CTB
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by K2GW on May 27, 2008
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Some basic observations:
1. The Dayton Hamvention is the largest Amateur Radio trade show for the Americas and in that aspect is at least ten times larger than any other event. What other Amateur Radio event has over 500 inside vendor exhibits?
2. The Dayton Hamvention is also the largest Amateur Radio Convention in the Americas with over 50 different forum sessions on every aspect of Amateur Radio.
3. Most other "hamfests" are just electronic junk flea markets. Dayton is still the largest in this regard, but like most hamfests, it's getting smaller due to e-Bay selling.
Even if the hamvention shrunk to half it's present size, it would still dwarf anything else in the US. And functions 1 and 2 would make it a clear winner above any other event in this hemisphere.
73
Gary, K2GW
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by K9MHZ on May 27, 2008
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<<<<<K0NEB wrote: Omaha has many wonderful attractions, like the Henry Doorly Zoo (don't laugh..it is truly spectacular!) and the Old Market, but it could never host Hamvention. Hamvention is in Dayton because of where Dayton is..within 6 hours drive of many major matro areas. Omaha is not.>>>>>
That's ABSOLUTELY the case. We can talk all we want about Vegas, Orlando, or Omaha.....all great places with much better facilities than Hara Arena, but the fact is....Dayton geographically sits in the center of 1-1.5 hours' flight time (and correspondingly longer driving time) from probably 75% of the country's population. This manifests itself in a very practical way every night.....the Ohio Valley's airspace is the world's busiest at night, because UPS is in Louisville, Fed Ex has a big presence in Indianapolis (although their main hub is in Memphis), and DHL/Airborne is in Wilmington, OH. This isn't by accident....it's due to being very geographically centered in the greatest cluster of the American population.
Hara looks pretty rough, no doubt. DARA should insist on some sprucing up, or maybe look for another location around town, but I'd be very surprised if the Dayton Hamvention will ever become anything less than the biggest event of the year.....unless ham radio itself would fall on its backside for some reason.
Cheers,
Brad
K9MHZ
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What's Not to Love?
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by N4DJS on May 28, 2008
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The cost of fleamarket spaces at Dayton this year was $70 per 9' x 17' space, or $100 per end space (as I
remember). There were a lot of empty spaces, and there were things (such as the DARA W8JI station) that were located within the fleamarket that were traditionally outside the flea area. There were several vendors that have traditionally at Dayton that I am personally familiar with that were not at Dayton this year. Between high costs for spaces, hotels, gasoline, an aging ham population and increasing market penetration of Ebay, the American hamfest is dying a not so slow death.
I spoke with the PODS unit guy at the fleamarket - he worked for the company, so he wasn't paying retail.... if anything....
73, Dave N4DJS
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by KASSY on June 2, 2008
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This was my second Dayton trip, in recent years. I attended with my dad a few times as a kid, but as an adult only this year and last. I don't have the reference point many of you long-timers do.
I don't find Hara to be objectionable. The dilapidated veterans hall where my local monthly swap is held is in far worse shape.
I did learn something new in this thread - diabetes causes obesity. To that person, I suggest you read the eham article on "feedback". You apply a signal from the output back to the input to reduce some undesirable condition. So, you read the bathroom (or rather, freight) scale and apply negative feedback, reducing the intake, and you'll see the scale decline.
Just to provide a bit more medical info - Diabetes type I (one) is the original form. Usually childhood onset, caused by geneteics, etc. The insulin levels in the body are very hard to control and in fact, the body cannot produce enough insulin. The person must consume a very strict diet, low in high GI carbs and usually have to take insulin shots. Such diabetics are skinny - or dead.
The "new form" of diabetes is Type II, and it is caused by obesity. The body's insulin producing mechanism, having been abused for years by far too many calories, goes into overdrive and lots of insulin is produced...until it can't any more and then it stops producing, for a while, then starts up again. This form of diabetes is completely curable - by dieting and losing the excess weight.
Those with Type II diabetes should find this to be very good news indeed, because it means that there is a complete, and well-known cure for the disease. All it takes is moderate exercise of the "delayed gratification muscle".
Can you tell I worked in the nursing field?
Anyway, back to Dayton. I saw smaller crowds this year, but it seemed a buying frenzy. I figured smaller crowds due to cost of travel. Of particular note was a dramatic reduction in the number of motorized scooters. Whether due to obesity or incurable infirmity, I figure those on scooters have a harder time traveling to begin with and the cost of fuel led them to "just say no". Audio alley seemed almost dead, compared to last year. Was there some famous celebrity in attendance last year who didn't show this year?
Flex is still showing the same closed-architecture radio as last year, and the booth wasn't as full. Elecraft was the one vendor whose booth was just as thronged with people as last year....I guess their SDR the K3 is still new and novel.
One thing that puzzled me last year and this year is this: Why is MFJ's booth always jam-packed? As with any other decent manufacturer, when you buy direct, you pay retail, so they don't compete with their own distributors. Lower prices on MFJ gear can be had any day on the 'net. At Dayton, buying straight from MFJ meant you paid retail AND Ohio sales tax. Makes no sense to me.
The flea market, IMO is really aimed at those "experienced" hams who know and want to re-live the good old days. A fellow ham has convince me to build my own tuner, so I was scouting for bread slicers and roller inductors. When I saw one on a table, I'd ask the seller what value it was and how much he wanted, and I'd get rebuffed. "Anybody who deserves to own that can recognize it for what it is and knows what the price is going to be!" Do I get this treatment because I'm not one of the good old boys? If I were to strap my chest, stick a pillow under my shirt and cut my hair short, would I be treated more seriously? I already have the gray hair, so that part's taken care of.
Speaking of gray, I did notice a much higher percentage of young hams this year. Maybe because the ARRL is putting an emphasis on youth? In my area, there's a lot of youth in ham radio. They don't attend regular club meetings - the staid old format of most clubs is simply not appealing to youth. Instead, they do their own online meetings in chat rooms and via texting. But they were in force at Dayton!
As far as moving Dayton...I wouldn't. I was told that there are nearly 500 volunteers that "do" the convention. You could hardly drum that up elsewhere. I guess htere's hamcom in Texas, someone told me that's about 1/3 the size of Dayton. So you could not move Dayton further south, because you'd be faced with competition there.
Pretty much if you have a big happening, it has to be right where it is. I sure noticed the prevalence of 8-land and 4-land callsigns...it may not be a huge drive from 1,2 and 3-land, but those callsigns were not prominent. Local draw is a big part of it. Finding another place with hotel rooms that cheap might be a trick too...I'm sure rates are lower the rest of the year, but frankly, I haven't paid this little for a hotel room anywhere else.
Well, those are my observations...call it "wide eyed wonderment from a returnee".
- k
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by K8AI on June 5, 2008
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""Courtesy and common sense have gone the way of the bald eagle--all but extinct. Maybe its time we petitioned the government to have THEM declared an 'endangered species'.""
"Hey Chris,
Not so in Western Michigan. We have bald eagles and real nice people here in abundance."
Not nearly enough nice people in West Mich if you ask me...
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What's Not to Love?
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by N7QJ on June 7, 2008
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. Rumor has it that for your 10 year anniversary at my company, you can choose $1500 cash or a week off. Knowing the cash would disappear as quick as you can read this sentence, I chose the vacation. For my vacation, I chose to go to the Dayton hamvention in Dayton Oh.
Knowing this exposes my geek quotient, I forged on. For my 5 year award at Maxim I took 3 weeks off, most of it spent with the restoration of my 1966 mustang. A manly thing to say the least , but now 5 years later, I find myself going to the MOAHF (mother of all ham fests).
Having booked everything in advance (January!!) I figured there would be no worries. The morning I was supposed to fly out, I had an email from Travelocity. Seems my flight was cancelled? WTF? Long story short, and flying a different carrier, I arrived 3 hours later than I had planned too.
Got up early Friday morning and went to the hotel lobby. There was a bunch of old dudes (no kidding) hooting and hollerin’ about HAM RADIO. Got there and I thought wow! This is big!. Don’t think I was able to cover everything in one day. Took in most of the flea market and purchased a complete Drake TR7 / PS7 with mike for $525. Shipped it home the next day. Took in Hamvention chow, the requisite $4.00 burger and / or $300 pizza. About $10 a day for lunch, and they knew the had you since you were bussed in from the parking area (actually that worked out good and it was cheap). Took in a Drake Forum and a AM forum. The drake forum was good and went over some things I did know. The AM forum was about restoring a R-390 receiver, which I have 2. That rounded out Friday, except for the fact that some $$$ left my wallet for an IC-7000 ($200 off list – plus no tax if it is shipped) A great deal indeed. Oh and somehow I forget I let my 10-10 membership lapse. After a quick visit by their booth, I am good for another 3 years.
Saturday the flea market was weaker, and most everyone started packing in by noon. Took in an FCC forum from Riley Hollingsworth (packed house) who briefed us on FCC actions followed by the message (no insult to Rodney king) “why can’t we all just get along” when it came to the ham bands.
Sunday started out with a one last pass through what was left of the flea market, followed by a Collins forum detailing the restoration of a 20-V3 5kW AM xmtr. Then it was off to the HF digital forum (ARRL). Now I know what some of those sounds are other than RTTY and Code. Then at the last minute, I picked up a yaesu FT-817. The price was right!!! . Having exhausted both my energy and cash, I sat down in the arena for the closing ceremonies complete with prizes. Who would have guessed it, but I walked away with a Kenwood TM-D710A dual band mobile – a $599 value.. Not a bad way to end a first timer’s trip to the Dayton Hamvention.
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RE: What's Not to Love?
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by N4AOF on August 28, 2008
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What's NOT to love? Hmmm.... I've seen quite a bit NOT to love in this forum.
> My favorite overweight cart driver was the
> guy who kept pushing his cart through the
> thick crowd at the Icom booth to get up to
> the front by the stage to get a free pocket
> protector and sticker. This is just plain nuts.
Apparently our no-call poster hiding behind a fake name feels that it is "just plain nuts" that any handicapped ham should have an opportunity to actually see any of the equipment. At least not while there is a bunch of rude slobs yakking and standing around in the way.
I didn't go to Dayton this year. Last time I was at Dayton, several years ago, I was using a cart - while recovering from two broken ankles and a broken kneecap gotten when a stupid S.O.B. crossed the centerline of our local four-lane undivided US highway. The next time I get to Dayton, I'll have my wife with me -- using a cart due to a knee joint that "isn't quite bad enough" for knee replacement surgery yet. And if it takes more than a year or two for me to get back to Dayton, I'll probably be back on a cart due to arthritis having set up in one of the ankles that never quite recovered from being shattered.
Yes, people using carts do occasionally bump into other people - Just like people bump into people. And, oh by the way, people walking around also bump into people using carts, mostly they bump into the cart users with the crap they are carrying -- and none of them ever think to say excuse me or even pause to see if running their amp into your head might have hurt.
The folks who complain about anyone on a cart trying to get through the crowd are probably the same slobs who are pushing and squeezing their own way through the crowd and who never look to see if they are trampling anyone who happens to be below their eye level.
Dayton not only has the biggest crowds of any hamfest, it also has the rudest crowds of any hamfest that I have ever seen -- and apparently quite a few of the people who made up the crowd at Dayton felt a need to take their rudeness with them and spew it in this forum.
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