Keep Your Cool!
Ron Bussiere (N4UE)
on
August 24, 2008
View comments about this article!
I have a rather large collection of radios from the 40's thru 2000+. I dislike heat generated in radios and do everything to reduce it. Although replacing a vacuum tube rectifier with diodes will not only reduce the total BTUs, it eliminates the load on the power transformer as well. Since there is 'no free lunch,' you need to add a large voltage-dropping resistor; otherwise the resulting B+ will be too high, since there is a substantial voltage drop through the tube. At least you can put this power resistor where it will do the least damage.
One thing I use in EVERY radio I own, is a 12 (or 24) VDC cooling fan. The 24 VDC fans, when run at 12 VDC are completely inaudible, yet move lots of air.
I read the reviews of the Icom 756 PRO series and almost every user is surprised to feel how hot these radios get. OK, let's face it. Because the OUTSIDE of the radio is warm, this just means the Icom Engineers were able to use the whole radio (covers, etc) as part of the total heat sink. Knowing the Japanese as well as I do, I'm sure they have conducted LOTS of thermal testing. Sure, they could have added a fan, but it would:
1. make noise
2. pull in dust
3. add cost.
After I carried back my 756 PRO from Tokyo, I was amazed at the performance. Yet, I was also amazed how hot it got.
One of my past jobs was doing failure analysis for IBM. Capacitors not only have a high intrinsic failure rate, they don't tolerate high heat very well.
The fix is easy, simple, and requires NO modification to the radio(s).
Rather than attempt to describe the installation, (one pix IS worth a 1000 words!), just contact me off line and I will be glad to provide digital pix of fans I have added to:
IC-761
IC-756 PRO
IC-745
IC-271A
IC-471A
R-7000
R-71A
IC-706MKllg
Drakes
75A-4
Lafayettes
etc, etc
I have never experienced a heat related failure, and the fans just cannot be heard. My 756 PRO has been on for a couple of hours listening to 20 Meters and it's still cool to the touch.
Dust? I have NO problem here, since my girlfriends help me keep the house VERY clean! ha ha!
Ron
N4UE
n4ue@arrl.net
bonddaleena@aol.com
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Keep Your Cool!
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by N4CQR on August 24, 2008
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Quote: ..... since my girlfriends help me keep the house VERY clean! ha ha!
Wahtta guy..
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Keep Your Cool!
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by K1CJS on August 24, 2008
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Adding fans to every radio is certainly one way to do the necessary cooling, but I've a simpler way. Just put a regular table fan in the rear of the radio rack, aimed along the backs of the radios. Even though that won't cool as good as a directly mounted fan, it will move the air and allow some cooling.
Most table fans are pretty quiet, and on a medium or low seting will move a lot of air.
Of course, you can use both methods and really cool off the radios, but that is up to you!! ;-)
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RE: Keep Your Cool!
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by K0BG on August 24, 2008
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I'm of the school that manufacturers know how to design their transceivers correctly. If there is adequate ventilation around the transceiver, additional cooling isn't going to lengthen life.
The only time I have ever lost a SS final was from baby failure (first few hours of operation), and only once (Atlas 210X). My 751 and 2KL have run for nearly 30 years of daily operation, and I've never used any auxiliary cooling. But then again, I don't abuse my equipment by running them balls-to-the-wall.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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RE: Keep Your Cool!
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by N2UGB on August 24, 2008
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I was never happy that my QRP FT-817 had no "legs" under it. Though only a five-watter, it gets hot. I purchased some stick-on pads at the hardware store. Enough to raise the rig about a half-inch.
Now, though the rig is still warm, there is room for some air to circulate underneath.
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Keep Your Cool!
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by TANAKASAN on August 24, 2008
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Increased levels of temperature decrease the working lifetime of components, especially electrolytic capacitors and semiconductors. Am I therefore the only one who considers rigs that run hot a case of bad design?
Tanakasan
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Keep Your Cool!
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by WC0V on August 24, 2008
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I have had a FlexRadio SDR1000 for more than a year and was first appalled at the huge noise from the internal front mounted fan. Cut out the holes in the front plate the fan was mounted on, now down to just annoying level. Shopped around and found some almost totally silent fans at computer store by Silenx. Mounted on the front, also cut out area in the rear behind the PA. Now have great cooling air in the front, out the back.
Reason for this post is the research I did on the P.A. components. P.A. transistors each rated at 100 w. PEP, 175 deg C. Way beyond the scary warnings from Flex. BUT adding the silent fan in the front removed any worries about my getting carried away with PSK, RTTY, etc. After a five minute keydown RTTY transmission into a dummy load, the heatsink never even got to 40 deg. C.
The fan BTW cost around $15.00.
73, Carl WCØV
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RE: Keep Your Cool!
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by AC2RC on August 24, 2008
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I have my equpment on wire shelving.This is readily available ,strong enough to handle even heavy components and doesn't impede air flow.
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RE: Keep Your Cool!
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by W4LGH on August 24, 2008
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N4UE says..."Although replacing a vacuum tube rectifier with diodes will not only reduce the total BTUs, it eliminates the load on the power transformer as well. Since there is 'no free lunch,' you need to add a large voltage-dropping resistor; otherwise the resulting B+ will be too high, since there is a substantial voltage drop through the tube. At least you can put this power resistor where it will do the least damage."
======================================
When you add the "large dropping resistor", you have applied the load back on the power transformer, and you have put the heat back in the radio! (Unless you are mounting it outside the case, and that would be ugly and dangerous) So you really haven't made any gains there.
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N4UE continues..."Because the OUTSIDE of the radio is warm, this just means the Icom Engineers were able to use the whole radio (covers, etc) as part of the total heat sink."
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Somehow, I really don't think that was part of the plan. If the case is HOT, imagine how HOT the insides must be, and that heat is a real component killer. True the cover will radiate some of this heat into your room, but if you remove the cover, use an IR thermometer and measure the heat, then with the cover off, measure again, you'll see a MAJOR cooling going on. So there's where your FAN will really help. And you don't have to move 1000's of cubic feet of air to achieve this cooling, just keep the air moving. Like you say, a 24v fan running on 12 volts works great.
=======================================
Heat is a major killer of electrolytics. I have also found that electrolytics lose about 10% of their value per year. So a 20+ year old radio, change them out asap. They may be working, but are no where near the correct value, and will fail soon. If you have room, always replace them with something a little bigger, unless its in a timing circuit. But you can still make it bigger, just change the value of the resistor. Also when I say bigger, I am not necessarily meaning more MFD's, but a higher voltage. This will save a lot of heartache too! For example I just replaced a 60mfd/200v cap in my Drake T4XB with an 80mfd/250v.
If you go out and buy yourself an "in-circuit" capacitor tester, it will SCARE you what you will find!
Its a very useful piece of equipment if you enjoy restoring older gear, and they are NOT expensive.
73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
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Keep Your Cool!
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by W8KQE on August 24, 2008
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Excellent article! I too, am surprised at how much noticeably hotter my Pro3 runs as compared to my old original 756 (w/monochrome screen). I initially thought I may have a defective rig (on a sidenote, there are other reasons too- the main disturbing one being the annoying, quite audible pop/clicks/extra layer of static i'm getting using the CW mode, while listening and especially while tuning!!! This should not be in an almost $3K 'higher-end' rig that is in it's FOURTH incarnation... when CW sounds better in SSB mode, something is amiss!!!), but was told that this is normal in the 'Pro' series.
If anyone else is experiencing these annoying DSP artifacts on CW with their Pro3, i'd love to hear about it. It's pathetic when CW sounds BETTER on my old original 756, to the point where I use it more, than my new 'praised to the hilt', obviously overrated Pro3!!! But I digress...
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RE: Keep Your Cool!
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by W4VR on August 24, 2008
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I've never had a radio that failed due to inadequate cooling, including the PROI, PROII and PROIII. One thing I've noticed about the PRO series is that the internal fan comes on every time you key the radio, which is good. My biggest problem is keeping the heat out of the radio shack...I've solved this problem by locating the switching power supply for the PROIII and the PW1 amplifier in my cool basement and remoting from upstairs.
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RE: Keep Your Cool!
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by KE7CDV on August 24, 2008
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Tanakasan --
It may or may not be bad design -- the problem is that you usually don't know what design life the manufacturer designed for, and what assumptions they make about what "typical operation" involves (e.g., duty cycle of transmitting, hours of usage per day, the "room temperature" it'll be used in, etc.
It's entirely conceivable that the manufacturer designed for, say, a 5-year life with 4 hours usage per day, 10% duty-cycle transmitting, all in a 25C room. This would not be an uncommon spec for, e.g., a laptop computer (except that "transmitting" would be "100% CPU utilization" or somesuch). In such a case, it isn't "badly designed," it's just designed with more constraints in mind than what you might guess. :-)
Certainly adding your own fan will generally greatly prolong the unit's life -- although I'm sure we've all seen radios covered with a thick layer of dust where a poorly-placed fan actually shortened the life too!
At the end of the day a lot of this really does come down to money -- there are many, e.g., mobile transceivers out there (even with fans already) that wouldn't last long at all in something like "busy repeater" service without additional airflow... and sometimes the design is such that no amount of external airflow can get the heat out of the internal components fast enough if the radio is transmitting at close to 100% duty cycle. If you look at the design of commercial repeaters, there's usually much more air flow, heat sinking... and higher prices.
---Joel
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Keep Your Cool!
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by W3OZ on August 24, 2008
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Ron said "I read the reviews of the Icom 756 PRO series and almost every user is surprised to feel how hot these radios get."
I have heard hams talk about this on many forums and on the air. Some say theirs get hot some so no. Hot is a relative term, what do you mean by hot? Where is it placed in the shack and what type of operation do you do? Any of these factors can make the Pro series seem hot to you.
I have a 756 Pro III and a 746 Pro neither of which has ever appeared hot to me. I have them mounted in rack panels in a telephone relay rack with plenty of air movement all around the cases. I have never found these transceivers to be hot to the touch at all. Even after long transmission periods on SSB or CW, they are not hot at all.
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Keep Your Cool!
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by AI2IA on August 24, 2008
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I have 8 radios, 4 power supplies, and just 2 three inch computer fans on the shelves. Before I put the 2 computer fans on the shelves all units ran hot enough to notice. The space between the shelves and the wall helps to circulate the air.
I find it amazing that these two little fans have dropped the temperature of all the units to a level that is not much warmer than room temperature with the units running for hours. If you use one or two little computer fans, well positioned, you will be very pleased with the results. They are very quiet and offer no interference.
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Keep Your Cool!
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by WA7CS on August 24, 2008
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For old tube rigs, I have an excellent solution to keeping things cool.
This method is silent, highly effective, and can be used on any radio with zero mods.
I cut a section of 4-inch PVC pipe and mounted a 12-volt muffin fan inside so the air gets sucked up from the bottom and out of the top.
An on-off swithc and a coat of flat black paint makes it look pretty good.
It is powered by a 6-volt wall wart. The 6-volt supply and a 12-volt fan makes it run at a reduced speed sot here is zero noise from the fan or from the moving air.
I just set this contraption on top of my tube rigs over the vents for the final sage. Everything runs really cool!
There is a photo of the cooler sitting on top of my Drake T4-XB on my QRZ profile. There is another photo on the Elecraft website:
http://www.elecraft.com/PictureGallery/newpics5/wa7cs_k2_small.jpg
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RE: Keep Your Cool!
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by W8ATA on August 24, 2008
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K0BG states "I'm of the school that manufactures know how to design their transceivers." I think I must have gone to the same school as Alan, only when it was still a one room schoolhouse. Most solid state rigs run warm due to the linear regulators. This heat doesn't seem to do harm them. In fact they may be more stable if we don't mess with the factory cooling set-up. On a side note, I have seen several AL-811H amps at hamfests with big exhaust fans attached to the left side. When W8JI designed this amp he created a sort of air tunnel which blows air across the 811's. In a post he explained that the blowing air creates turblence thus better cooling. That's why we sit in front of fans, not behind them, and why I don't mess with factory cooling. And why I leave air room around my gear.
73,
Russ
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RE: Keep Your Cool!
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by RADIOROY on August 24, 2008
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Alan (K0BG) Did we go to the same one room school. Many years ago I was very heavy into 11 meters, and when I bought a new radio, my advice was to never turn it off. The constant warming and cooling does more harm to the components than leaving it on for extended periods of time. The rig ran constantly for more than five years, and never a glitch. I still do not turn rigs off and on multiple times during the day. On at sunrise (or close) and off at bed time sometimes. My rigs have plenty of circulation, and run pretty cool, even on long rag chews. To each his own. 73 de W5ROY Roy
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RE: Keep Your Cool!
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by W4KVW on August 24, 2008
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Adding room fans behind my rig would be REALLY tough since my desk is against the outside wall of my home! Guess that would require me putting a window in my shack.I do NOT have any windows now in the shack for a window fan.If I put one in & cut a hole in the back of the desk so the air can pass through that would keep my rig & amp cooler?Rig & amp on different sides of the desk & at different levels as well so I guess TWO windows will be required!This is going too cost a lot of money just for a cooler rig & amp!Think I'll leave it as is & save my money for a NEW "ICOM 7600" when it's released sometime next year.Looks like a COOL rig without another fan!
Clayton
W4KVW
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Keep Your Cool!
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by WR8Y on August 24, 2008
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I have three TM 261's and I know they are kinda known for burning up transmitter PA modules. These radios DO get kinda hot if you are a 'yakker'! Before I ruined any of these radios, I put muffin fans on them. I mounted a switch on each so that the fan will run only when I want it to.
Several years of considerable use, not one PA failure yet.
I totally agree with keeping things cool - we see MOST of our PA failures at work (a small Motorola shop) in the summer.
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Keep Your Cool!
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by VE3LNY on August 24, 2008
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W4LGH said 'When you add the "large dropping resistor", you have applied the load back on the power transformer, and you have put the heat back in the radio! (Unless you are mounting it outside the case, and that would be ugly and dangerous) So you really haven't made any gains there.'
It's true that the dropping resistor generates as much heat as the plate current in the tube, but there is a significant saving by eliminating the tube's filament.
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Keep Your Cool!
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by N7KFD on August 24, 2008
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I've run my Electraft K1 for several hours at a time (including leaving it on while taking breaks) and never had a problem with heat. That's even when running it at the full 5 watts!!! Something to be said for QRP?
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RE: Keep Your Cool!
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by W4LGH on August 24, 2008
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One tube filament out of the grand scheme of things isn't going to make much difference. And as for the resistor, why bother, the little extra voltage you are going to get isn't going to hurt the plates any.
Back when I was a kid, every Hallicrafter receiver had a 5U4 rectifier in it. When they went bad, you shorted the filament leads and soldered a silicon diode on the bottom of the socket. You were back up and running. Yes you had a tad more plate voltage, and you raised the filament voltage up a bit, but it never hurt anything.
Also if you replace the rectifier tube with a single diode, 1/2wave rectification you really don't increase the voltage that much. Now if you are replacing it with a full wave rectifier, you could see a fair amount of increase because you are now rectifying both AC peaks, but I doubt it then would be enough to hurt anything.
Also the charm of the older tube rigs, is after all, the tubes. And when restoring, you want to keep it original. Thats why my Drakes still have the old 0A2 150v shunt regulators in them. Now they are REAL power wasters. If I built a solid-state regulator using a 150v zener and a pass transistor, it just wouldn't be an original Drake. I do however have 2 4" computer fans, one at each end of the shelves, one blowing in one one side and one blowing out on the other end, this keep the 4B line cool to the touch, and the radio hasn't been modified. When I restored my Drake TR7, I restored it to a factory TR-7A, with ALL original Drake parts. That took some time to find those parts, especially the GTD (gas tube discharge) device, with Drakes name and part number on it.
As for my new stuff, my Yaesu FT2K runs all day and never really gets what I would call warm, and I have never seen, heard, or felt the fan ever run. Now the fan in my FT1KMP used to run all the time, and you could feel the heat coming out of it.
To each his own I guess. I guess thats why I have additional AC in my shack, to pump all the heat out of this room!! It will get warm in here with all my stuff running. Now that is a power waster!! However I can keep my radio room as cool as I want and still not freeze everyone else in the house out.
Have fun and Keep on Playing radio.....
73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
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Drama Queen
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by KASSY on August 25, 2008
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I have had this conversation with many an older ham. I think it's in the category of "drama queening".
'seems some guys put a whole lot of emphasis on keeping things cool. Some guys don't. So far, neither side has reported any change in gear reliability.
The sole exception is the guys who bolt it all into one rack or stick it all behind panels, and then the gear shares the same airspace - that's too much stuff in one place with no airflow. Then you need a fan.
My dad's Drake B-line was new in 1970 and is still working fine today. He's changed a few resistors and the PA tubes, and that's it. He used to use it for contesting, but now uses a 1000D. Of the gear he and granddad have, none of them report any heat-related failures.
I'm also of the school that believes that the rig manufacturers know what they're doing. After all, they WANT to produce reliable gear, because that's what causes repeat customers.
But if you want to add fans, go ahead. Won't hurt anything, as long as you don't drill holes to do it, at which point the resale value drops...but that's not important if you intend to keep the gear the rest of your life.
I know the ham motto - "if in doubt, modify". Not my motto, though, but maybe that's just me.
- k
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RE: Drama Queen
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by W8ZNX on August 25, 2008
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most rigs don't need dam any fans
just make sure there is plenty of space around
.................RADIO
go ahead hang
fan
on a
...................TR-4CW
blow enought air to realy keep it
.............cool
it will never stop
.....DRIFTING
whole new world of ops
worry too dam much
have rigs that are over
,,,,,,,,,70 years old
that have never had a muffin fan mounted on them
still run fb
dit dit
mac
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RE: Drama Queen
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by W1XZ on August 25, 2008
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So this "article" tells us what? The guy puts a fan on his radios, his girlfriend cleans for him, and he has a secret way of cooling that he will reveal to us only after we email him. This deserves posting? Why?
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RE: Keep Your Cool!
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by KF4HR on August 25, 2008
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N2UGB wrote: I was never happy that my QRP FT-817 had no "legs" under it.
I added a fantastic product to my FT-817 called "Peg Legs". See:
http://www.mtechnologies.com/palm/pegleg.htm
My IC-7000 gets fairly hot too. There is a modification out to keep the internal fan on constantly. But I heard a rumor ICOM purposely wants the IC-7000 to remain warm as the heat acts somewhat like a a crystal oven which helps to stabilize frequency drift. I'm not sure if there's any truth to this or not.
KF4HR
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RE: Keep Your Cool!
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by K6JPA on August 25, 2008
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I had a couple of Icom IC-R781 and Icom IC-R9000 units over the years, and I had good success with the Sherwood Engineering cooling kits with them. The kits are not cheap, but they kept them from suffering known heat related internal power supply damage that non-cooled units were known to suffer from over time if not properly cooled.
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RE: Keep Your Cool!
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by K6JPA on August 25, 2008
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That of course is an IC-781 ... coffee hasn't quite kicked in yet this morning ...
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756PROIII
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by NK2U on August 25, 2008
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Quote: I too, am surprised at how much noticeably hotter my Pro3 runs as compared to my old original 756 (w/monochrome screen). I initially thought I may have a defective rig..."
Not only does it run very hot when in receive mode but it draws a lot more current than my 746PRO.
Roland, NK2U
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RE: 756PROIII
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by W4LGH on August 25, 2008
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More current, more heat! More losses, more heat!
Its just that simple guys....
de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
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RE: Fans
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by K5FH on August 25, 2008
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Mac said:
> go ahead hang
fan
on a
...................TR-4CW
blow enought air to realy keep it
.............cool
it will never stop
.....DRIFTING<
Not in my experience. I ran a TR4-C for many years. Those three sweep tubes in the final put out a LOT of heat. I used a 4" muffin fan mounted on plastic feet and set on top of the final cage to keep air flowing. My primary purpose was to extend the life of the finals.
The difference, I think, was that I confined the added airflow to the finals. What some seem to be advocating is a fan blowing over the entire rig - and what that will do is to blow heated air from the finals into the VFO, thus causing drift.
The key is directed airflow over high-heat areas such as the finals.
In the special case of the Swan 250 (a.k.a. Swine Two-Drifty), a small fan over the VFO compartment will improve stability dramatically. An L/C VFO operating in the 13MHz range - WHAT was Herb Johnson thinking???
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RE: Drama Queen
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by N4UE on August 25, 2008
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W1XZ, what's the matter little guy, you jealous... ha ha
Please write an article and enlighten us all.
These are MY radios and I'll darn well do what the he11 I want with them.
Typical North East butplug...
ron
N4UE
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RE: Fans
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by K1DA on August 25, 2008
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A thermister controlled computer fan works great as an exhaust fan on top ofthe TR4 final compartment with foam weatherstripping run around the edge. Of course you don't NEED a fan if you don't mind the hard to find and expensive 6JB6's running about 65 watts out (total) after a while. K1DA
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RE: Fans
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by W1RKW on August 25, 2008
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One way to keep a radio cool is to be a radio butcher or hammy hambone and drill a bunch of holes in it. Not only will it keep it cool, it will do wonders for the resale value and make restoring it fun.
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RE: Fans
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by W4LGH on August 25, 2008
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W1RKW... on August 25, 2008 said..." One way to keep a radio cool is to be a radio butcher or hammy hambone and drill a bunch of holes in it. Not only will it keep it cool, it will do wonders for the resale value and make restoring it fun."
This only works if you "Claim" it was used in the trenches of Vietnam to get messages from the troops in the field to family members back home. But if you do this, be sure to use a radio of the era. Last BOZO to try this had a radio that didn't come out until 10 yrs after the war! That guy must have been ,either a politician, a used car salesman, or a Debt Collector. About the same difference in all of them. Damn, I almost forgot, he could have been a lawyer.
If you want to use a fan, so be it. Only Drake radio that came with a fan option, was the Drake TR-7. None of their tube lines had fans, and if you KNOW how to peak & dip, those 6JB6;s will last forever. Original pair still in my TX4B, and it will still do about 130watts. Now if you don't load it properly, NO fan is gonna save you, especially if the 20mfd cap in the power supply that generates the BIAS for the finals opens up! Then you can't get the AC plug out fast enough, they WILL actually melt down until the glass breaks!
73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com
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RE: Fans
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by N6AJR on August 25, 2008
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and remember if installing cooling fins on something , put them in with the ridges going up and down.
this get thermal convection working for you ( heat rises and makes a little air movement naturally.
if you have the fins going across it is harder for the heat to flow away from the fins.
simple idea, but it works.
( or cool them with a Fan Dipole :) Hi hi )
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RE: Fans
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by K1CJS on August 26, 2008
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>>( or cool them with a Fan Dipole :) Hi hi )<<
Only if you have enough room in the shack so it can turn freely! ;-))
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RE: Fans
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by K2WH on August 26, 2008
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Let me see if I got this straight. You say if I add a fan to my rig(s) and run it at full or 1/2 voltage the radio will stay cooler. Is that correct?
Wow, who knew?
K2WH
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RE: Fans
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by AC7CW on August 28, 2008
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Components of all sorts last longer at lower temperatures, if a fan lowers the temperature in a piece of gear with no side effects then go for it. It's not rocket surgery!!
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RE: Fans
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by N4UE on August 28, 2008
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K2WH, I guess you didn't know!!!
DUUUUHHHH!!!
Lighten up, this is a HOBBY, not life or death combat.
In the future, keep your 'coomments' to yourself, where they are welcome!
N4UE
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RE: Fans
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by W1XZ on August 29, 2008
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Ron, While I realize this is the web, and amateur radio isn't mortal combat, there is a reply feature on every post. Not every person replying to your article is going to be positive, and their post has every right to be treated fairly as yours was. My comments stand. Why is yours an article. It offers nothing more than the fact you put fans on your radios, you haven't had a heat failure, and your girlfriend cleans. Give us who care some facts and empirical evidence to back up your claims. Put a temperature sensor inside the radios run them with and without the fans and give the data to us. Install two resistors, capacitors, or other part of equal value in two exact radios one with a fan and one without, and then remeasure them in a year, and gives us the results. Finally you don't have to resort to replying to "coomments" with sophomoric name calling. Also you can write hell anytime...we are all adults.
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RE: Keep Your Cool!
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by PLANKEYE on August 30, 2008
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Dust? I have NO problem here, since my girlfriends help me keep the house VERY clean! ha ha!
Ron
N4UE
___________________________________________________
I know it ends with Ha Ha!
Are you really that arrogant?
I have read some of your replies to comments from other Hams regarding your article.
BIG RON, with the GIRLFRIENDS huh?
Good for you Ron!!
PLANKEYE
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