Towers...
James (N8NSN)
on
August 26, 2008
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Have you been considering placing a tower on your property for your antenna(s)?
There are a good number of things to be considered before a "good decision" can be made on what to raise into the air, and where to place it. The first question would be; what will be sufficient and more importantly safe, as an antenna support, to meet the needs for your system? Study the structural requirements for the antenna(s) going up (weight, wind load, turning radius etc.). Study the structural integrity of various support towers. Knowing the perimeters of your apparatus should always be the primary consideration. The investment of acquiring knowledge and the implementations of safety standards are paramount.
Many are intimidated by the "cost" involved in putting up a tower. The tower placement event does not necessarily need to be one that requires a great deal of money. There are means to have an economical tower. As well, there are ways to accomplish an economical tower installation safely. Again, it all hinges on what would SAFELY get the job done. Safety is the key word and is, ALWAYS, the most important consideration. You may not need 65G Rohn (my dream tower stock) to install a 2 element quad for 20 meters through 10 meters. Then again, in your particular situation that may be the required method to "keep the antenna in the air" SAFELY.
Perhaps you are a ham operator without the need for a very high tower. Maybe the system being thought of is not a multiple antenna array, which would increase wind load and tower twist factors encountered. You may find that a "lighter duty" tower will meet the many considered requirements. You may come to the conclusion that Rohn 25G will be sufficient for your needs. Maybe something even "lighter" than Rohn 25G is a possibility. Seeing the ever-increasing costs of new tower sections and hardware you may find yourself wanting to proceed with "used" tower.
Be very careful to study your facts on tower and not get burned on a deal. There is a "Light Duty" Rohn 20G still available from older installations of, primarily, TV antennas. The 20G Rohn and the 25G Rohn towers have differences that may not be known of or seen at an undereducated first observation. The horizontal lengths of "Z Bracing," (some call these "rungs"), on 20G is seven per section. The "rung" count on 25G is eight. Rohn refers to these as "bays". Thus, the bay count on 20G would be 6 as opposed to 7 "bays" on 25G. The gauge of galvanized steel used to make both tower grades, both in the wall thickness of the legs and the gauge of the "Z bracing", is different as well... 25G being the more substantial of the two. The structural support requirements (guy wires, bracing, "free stand" limits etc.) for the tower grades are different too.
These facts are not necessarily a "bad thing". In certain applications 20G is more than enough to be safe and secure. If you are looking for something for a "lighter duty requirement" set up... 20G may be just what you are looking for since so many see this as "disposable" tower.
The following is one hands on experience for the tower installation at my QTH. I wanted to offer this to "new comers" in the hobby or others that may be intimidated by HUGE DOLLAR AMOUNTS often encountered in a tower planting. There are economical and SAFE ways to "put some metal in the air."
Acquiring a tower...
There is a good chance that many homeowners, in your area, would like to have their old antenna support system removed from their property. This can usually be forecast when you see an old beat up TV antenna with the twin lead going nowhere and blowing in the breeze. Just knock on the door and ask. There are only a limited number of outcomes that could take place... "Get off my property before I call the cops", "I am going to put something up there on the 12th of never", "I still use it" or..." if you can take it down safely you can have it". I have acquired (2) Rohn 20G towers of about 40 feet each free for the removal efforts. Between the two towers I easily ended up with enough 20G to get 40 feet of tower in the air. The "extra sections" were given to friends who wanted to use them.
BEFORE YOU "CLIMB" ANY TOWER... INSPECT IT THOROUGHLY!!! I can't stress this point enough... The base section or any other given area may be rusted and weak. There is nothing like "riding down" a tower, from any height, strapped to it and nowhere to go if a section gives way and the tower comes down. The brace connection may come loose, as well with the potential to cause a dire situation. Just these two possible situations should never be considered to be rare events. Many people (hams and non hams) have been badly injured, worse yet killed, in these types of situations. Safety First!
Show up to the "job" with the proper equipment... Gin pole/ropes, climbers' belt/tethers, and other relative tools and don't show up with out your hard hat and other relative safety equipment. Above all bring a competent ground man... When the tower is down be kind enough to cut off the legs as flush as possible. Go as far as to "beat them flush" to the concrete (assuming the foundation is above grade) to avoid the possibility of someone tripping over or falling onto the remaining leg remnants and being injured.
Installation example...
The 3X3 square and almost 4 foot deep hole was the biggest chore. A good 6-inch or so layer of "drainage" material was laid in for leg drainage. This is a must if you do not want the legs to split from water accumulation and freezing. On a "pour" over one yard; It is highly suggested to have re-bar reinforcement in the "hole". You may want to go ahead and ground all three legs to an eight-foot copper clad ground rod before the pour too. Go ahead and ground that re-bar as well... Preparation is your friend.
The concrete, trucked in for a mere 150 dollars, was 150 dollars well spent. That was in the summer of 2005. I am sure the costs have gone up some since then. There was a 1 & 1/2 yard minimum, thus enough concrete for a really nice looking foundation well above grade and yes, scribing your call sign in the concrete is a MUST DO. After researching the cost of purchasing "bagged concrete mix" at home improvement centers, hauling it home and risking the breakage of my trucks suspension (it takes a LOT of bags to make a yard and a half) and the time, effort and concrete structural integrity knowledge needed to "mix my own"... I found that you can save a few bucks by mixing the concrete by hand. The difference in cost is rather insignificant when you consider the quality of the "mix." The quality and strength of the "mix" or "slump" is important. Unless you are very familiar with concrete mixing and know how to get around a "4000 mix" or if you want "fiber mesh" etc. etc... Leave the mixing to the professionals. Your hauling vehicle will be grateful as well as your back.
The tower is "planted" nearly 4 feet away from the exterior of the home. The tower is also bracketed to the house, at about 12 feet, via home brew stand offs for the aluminum siding (no electrical connection between the house and tower), home brew braces made from 1&1/4 inch gas pipe and angular joints and mounting plate fittings. -- Very inexpensive and VERY effective bracing.
This installation is more than enough to support a Mini hybrid quad for 6, 10, 15 & 20 meters @ 44 feet and a 10 element 2 meter antenna @ 48 feet. There is also a home brew out-rigger, about 28 inches out from the tower, at 39 feet up. This is where there is a pulley/rope system for the 135-foot doublet installed. Notice the rotator is nestled comfortably at the intersection of the last intermediate and top sections.
Was this "enough"?
This tower has survived through quite a number of mid western, USA storms with straight line winds in excess of 70 MPH... BIG winds that up root trees of 2 or more feet in diameter reek havoc on roofing shingles and blow metallic sheds blocks down the street! Also, there are no guy wires here being at only 40 feet (only the H.B. brackets at 12 feet).
No doubt, if there were to be larger antennas in the air here (such as a TH6DX or the like) or if going "up" any higher; I would have went with a much more costly tower such as Rohn 45G or the like. Even 25G would work for a larger antenna if properly installed and guyed. Even guyed I wouldn't trust the 20G with a larger antenna system due to the possibility of the tower "twisting" thus ... a catastrophe. Rohn 20G is exactly what it is... Light Duty.
Just wanted to say that even though 20G is not as "sturdy" as the 25G; it does have very high potential in the "right" situation. Best of all, if money is of consideration, a person can usually acquire and install a 20G tower quite economically. You have to consider the "needs and requirements" to meet the intended purpose. "Overkill" is very nice, however, many times it is just that...Overkill.
SAFETY FIRST! ALWAYS!
73 & GL on your projects,
Jimmie
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Towers...
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by W7ETA on August 26, 2008
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Fortunately, when I planned and bought my first tower, I had a catalog from the manufacturer that covered the base, guying, and wind loads; I ordered it thru a local ham who became a dealer after buying towers for his contest station.
If I was contemplating buying a tower, I keep researching after reading this article.
73
Bob
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by W8JI on August 26, 2008
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I've seen dozens of tower failures over the years and they all, with the exception of a few installation accidents, were from poor guying.
The number one mistake has been putting saddle clamps on backwards and failure to use thimbles. It amazes me how often that occurs. I have a friend with Rohn tower that let a buddy help him, and his tower has the wrong SIZE guy clamps. They not only are TWICE the size they are supposed to be, they are randomly installed with the rounded U bolt pressed against the loaded strand instead of the saddle against the strand like it should be!!!
It's a nice very tall heavy new Rohn with an expensive Stepp IR antenna (at one time TWO of them) and some other antennas, the guying is the specified materials, but the securing of guy ends is noting short of laughable. It looks like an inexperienced ten year old did the clamps.
I've seen guys pull out house brackets, I've seen open or bent formed turnbuckles used instead of forged steel with closed ends.
The number two mistake is trees near guylines or improper numer or location of guys.
I've never seen a completed guyed tower fail from anything but something stupid with the guy lines.
73 Tom
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by KF4HR on August 26, 2008
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Over the years I've used Rohn 25G and HDBX towers. I got tired of climbing and switched to tubular crank-up tilt-over towers. Tubular towers typically do not have the load capacity that triangular towers have, but being able to crank them down during storms and strong winds, or even tilt them over to the ground is a big plus in my book.
KF4HR
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by K0BG on August 26, 2008
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The little ditty I learned a long time ago when I worked for Broderick and Bascom, a wire rope company. It pays to remember it:
"Never saddle a dead horse".
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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Towers...
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by N8DV on August 26, 2008
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Good article about tower safety. One thing you forgot to mention: if you live in a subdivision or on a small lot and any part of the antenna swings over the neighbors property, but get their permission---in writing---to put up that tower and antenna. Make sure you are in good standing with your neighbors!
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Towers...
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by N8DV on August 26, 2008
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Good article about tower safety. One thing you forgot to mention: if you live in a subdivision or on a small lot and any part of the antenna swings over the neighbors property, better get their permission---in writing---to put up that tower and antenna. Make sure you are in good standing with your neighbors!
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by KB9CRY on August 26, 2008
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Nice basic article. Hopefully what you come away with from reading this is that a tower project requires a lot of pre-planning and thought. It's all about safety.
N1LO's compendium touches on many of the "minor details" concerning guyed towers.
http://www.qsl.net/n1lo/tower.htm
Also included is K7NV's structural analysis of different tower bases and their advantages and disadvantages.
Also remember that unless you have a competent structural engineer do calculations for you, always follow the manufacturer's recommendations.
There are a lot of other details to a tower project. The antenna, how to erect it, the rotator, cabling, the grounding system (don't forget that), maintenance. Solicit advice and help from seasoned tower folks. The TowerTalk reflector on contesting.com is populated with experienced tower folks.
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by N1LO on August 26, 2008
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Thanks, Phil, and let me emphasize the value of the TowerTalk reflector at contesting.com, a treasure.
Steve Morris, K7LXC, founded this list, and moderates it closely, making it the most professional list I've ever participated in. You can get started with safety equipment and materials at his website championradio dot com.
There really is a lot to know about towers, and climbing them is the single most dangerous segment of Amateur Radio.
Educate yourself first (while you save up your $$$). When you do it right, you sleep at night.
--...MARK_N1LO...--
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by N8NSN on August 26, 2008
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The main scope of this article was to provide just one example that a tower can be erected on a tight budget and still be a safe installation.
Thanks to everyone for the great further thoughts and considerations. Always, Safety is the main objective.
I do not have a picture of the home brew brackets at this point. That would have been a great photo to have. In retrospect, I wish I had taken pictures of the installation from beginning to end.
There were several months invested in just the preparation. I do live in town. There are a lot of residences around me. This is the main reason I wanted to go with "smaller" antennas on the tower and keep things as simple as possible in regards to aesthetics. I live in a rental property as well. The first thing I had to do was to "clear" the installation with my very good land lord. His main concern was the safety factor as well. The city even required a permit and, of course, the inspections as well.
The way my antennas are oriented the 135 foot doublet is the only one that is a "large span" antenna. There is enough space between any neighbors and myself that none of the antennas encroach on others lots. I could not orient the doublet other than the way it spans (almost in a N to S line).
Research and Preparation are your best friends.
73,
jimmie
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by WB2WIK on August 26, 2008
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Nicely written.
The article addresses only guyed towers, and of course hams use lots of self supporting towers also. Especially those of us with small lots incapable of properly placing guys!
SS towers require a larger foundation (more excavation, more concrete) but otherwise are actually easier to install because there's no bracket, no guy anchors and no guys. Folks shouldn't be scared away from towers simply because their lots aren't large enough to properly place guy anchors.
An 86' tall telescoping, self-supporting tower takes up as much yard space as the average lawn chair.
WB2WIK/6
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by N4KC on August 26, 2008
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Yes, planning! We get into trouble when we get in a hurry or try to get by cheaply with something like a tower. Believe me, I'm all for cheap and getting projects done, but when it comes to something that can hurt somebody and do some damage, I'll whip out the check book and take the time to do some serious planning.
I happened upon some Rohn 20 in reasonably good shape, on the ground, for a good price. Since I am only putting up 35 feet and hanging a hexbeam on top, it will work fine, especially after some wire-brushing and cold galvanizing. But I also obtained a short, damaged section (damage on the bottom only) of Rohn 25 that will go into the cement. It is a perfect match for the 20. I don't have a good location for proper guys so a house bracket is being installed by a professional carpenter, braced and bolted to my specs--able to support a grown human being hanging from it. I got more rotator than I need, too, at a good reconditioned price. This is all so that if I want more antenna(s) up there or see a need to go higher, I can switch to Rohn 25 easily.
I think I'll only have about the same amount of money in this as I would a good quality, guyed and bracketed push-up mast. And I won't hold my breath everytime the wind blows.
By the way, Rohn's specs are available in a number of places on the web. They seem very, very conservative--likely drafted as much by lawyers as engineers--but for something hanging over the heads of my family, I want to be conservative, too!
Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.n4kc.blogspot.com
www.donkeith.com
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by K6AER on August 26, 2008
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“Show up to the "job" with the proper equipment... Gin pole/ropes, climbers' belt/tethers, and other relative tools and don't show up with out your hard hat and other relative safety equipment.”
The issue I have with the above statement is the climbing belt. You should have a climbing harness with fall protection strap. Sola or Elk River are the best and they only cost about $400. OSHA has outlawed the use of climbing belts with tower work some time ago. The problem with a climbing belt is if you fall the “G” force when you stop will break you back or worse.
Also a set of good leather gloves will keep you hand from getting bloody for the galvanization nibs on the tower are sharp.
I cannot stress enough if you are not experienced in tower climbing and don’t have the proper tools then hire someone to do the job. You should have at least two people for a tower job for the art of antenna and tower erection in a subject that is too long to go into in this forum.
Comtrain is the largest tower climbing instruction service and they have many great links for the purchase of tower climbing equipment. The most important tool is the climbing instruction.
Each year we lose 3-5 hams from tower accidents. Tower climbing is the most dangerous job in America according to OSHA. “
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by K0SPN on August 26, 2008
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"Never saddle a dead horse".
That only means something if you know which side of the bight is live and which is dead.
Unfortunately, not enough do.
This is the kind of thing that can kill people, and sadly, it's usually an innocent bystander months or years after installation, not the chowderhead who didn't know any better.
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by KE7FD on August 26, 2008
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Great article. I'm in the process of putting up a 30 foot tower (I know...) and am just about done digging he base hole for it. Problem I'm having is that I can't get concrete haulers to return my calls or the two that actually did show up wanted $500 & $900 to do the job (I really do not think they wanted to do it). So, in my case it's not deciding to have a commercial provider do the job, it's finding someone who will do the work. Getting the cement to the base is down-hill, about 50 feet from the road.
In any case, very good article again and I for one [more] appreciate the information.
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by WB2WIK on August 26, 2008
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>RE: Towers... Reply
by KE7FD on August 26, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Great article. I'm in the process of putting up a 30 foot tower (I know...) and am just about done digging he base hole for it. Problem I'm having is that I can't get concrete haulers to return my calls or the two that actually did show up wanted $500 & $900 to do the job (I really do not think they wanted to do it). So, in my case it's not deciding to have a commercial provider do the job, it's finding someone who will do the work. Getting the cement to the base is down-hill, about 50 feet from the road.<
::Suggestions:
1. Make provision for the cement mixer to pull up close to the hole if possible, so they can trough it in easily. This means the path leading from the road to the hole has to support several tons of truck riding over it. If that's impossible, then...
2. Offer to have help and wheelbarrows available so the guy only has to park in the road and fill the barrows, while you and friends barrow it from the road to the hole to unload. A wheelbarrow full of concrete is very heavy, but if you fill each one about halfway it's manageable; or...
3. Find out where the cement yard is and use a dump truck (yours, a friend's, a neighbor's, whatever you can get) to bring back the concrete "dry" (it's a mix of stones, Portland and sand...usually two "scoops" will fill a small dump truck and might be enough to fill your hole...and rent an electric cement mixer for a day. Mix the concrete yourself right next to the hole, so you can mix, pour, mix, pour, mix, pour, etc. I've done this, it's really not very hard if you have two guys with shovels, and a couple wheelbarrows to bring the dry mix from the truck back to the mixer.
There's always a way...consider it a one-day investment in a long term enjoyment.
WB2WIK/6
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by AA4PB on August 26, 2008
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"Never saddle a dead horse".
That only means something if you know which side of the bight is live and which is dead.
-----------------------------------------------------
So are you trying to keep it a secret :-)
The "dead end" is the short piece that wraps through the anchor and lays back over the tensioned guy wire.
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by AF6G on August 26, 2008
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"...and ground all three legs to an eight-foot copper clad ground rod before the pour too. Go ahead and ground that re-bar as well..."
I'm no expert but I recall reading that grounding the rebar invites damage (and a serious safety hazard) of the tower base in the event of a lightning hit on the tower.
Yes, ground the tower at it's base but I don't think grounding the rebar is good idea.
Comments?
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by W8JI on August 26, 2008
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Everyone I tell that to is always confused by the saddle a dead horse thing.
There is a u-bolt, there is a saddle that is countoured to fit the guy strand.
The u-bolt will act just like a cable cutter if placed against the load bearing end of the strand loop. The harder the guy line and the harder the pull, the more it tries to sheer the line.
The saddle, the wide part that is contoured to fit the strand, has to be on the load nearing strand. The short flying end has to have the u-bolt, because deforming that end doesn't hurt strength nearly so much.
I've seen dozens of lines cut by the u-bolt in high winds when the clamp is on backwards.
73 Tom
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by K4IKR on August 26, 2008
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In 1987 I installed a 70 foot Rohn 25G Foldover tower with the help of my wife (KB4HEW) and stepson (KD4OEK). It had three sets of four guys.
I used new 8 ft. creosoted railroad ties as guy anchors. This was a mistake. A couple of them rotted out in 14 to 15 years and the tower came down in a bad storm.
Positively use a climbing harness of known good quality. DO NOT use one of the old leather safety belts found at a hamfest. The cotton stitching rots out. NEVER MOVE UP OR DOWN ON THE TOWER WITHOUT BEING ATTACHED WITH YOUR LANYARD.
Put the base of the tower a safe distance from any power lines such that if it goes down, it will not get into the power lines. (I used this rule and when mine came down, it went straight towards the power line but did not get into it.
BE SAFE. GET ADVICE FROM HAMS WHO HAVE DONE THIS. IF IN DOUBT, DON'T DO IT.
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by N0MUD on August 26, 2008
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Summer of 2007 I aquired 60 ft of Rohn 25g. I started to dig my 4x4x4 hole and found my will ran out and my Disabled Vet ills won out and I had to have a friend dig the hole. I thought about buying too many bags of Quick Rite and realized it was too much money and too heavy bags so did some shopping for cement and I paid a little over $200 for 2.9 cu yds of cement. The driver couldn't get close enough so 3 hams moving 15 wheel barrels of cement each we got the 4x4x4 hole filled. We waited for about two weeks to give the cement time to cure and then up went the rotor and then the A3 yagi. Little did I realize my friend put the rotor on top of the tower and having seen too many here in Colorado Springs and seeing the towers in the ham magazines I should have realized the error that was being made. Well the error showed up in October during a weekend when we had extremely heavy winds. I used the beam Saturday and Sunday, rotating it and it worked just fine. Come Monday morning I went to get the mail turned around to look up at my tower and I said to myself..."self"...where's your antenna. The rotor gave way, it stayed up on top, the antenna came down about half way and was held in check by the rotor cable and coax. Only a couple bent elements. The antenna and rotor stayed down all winter and finally middle of June 2008 with another ham who knew what he was doing put the rotor inside the tower tapered section on the rotor plate, this should have been done the first time....hind site.....I had plenty of ground pounders to help both Saturday, rotor went up and Sunday the antenna went up. It got too windy on Saturday for the antenna. The tower never swayed because one thing we did do was to double guy the tower so nothing moved except the improperly mounted rotor and antenna. I kick myself in the rear so many times my butt hurts but I learned a serious lesson, slow down, you can still get the work done in a weekend but just slow down. When the antenna went back up the second time, Sat morning the climber put the rotor up, came down and said you want the good news or bad news. He said good news is the rotor is up, bad news is the wind is picking up so we will put the antenna up tomorrow (Sunday). So I made sure my ground pounders could come back even tho we only needed two, I had five. I found out it took hams that knew what they was doing and did it slowly everything went back up as it was supposed to. I now have a nice A-3 on top of a 60ft Rohn25 that is on the 9ft tapered section and the rotor correctly mounted on the rotor plate. So this last Sunday we had a heavy winds/rain storm come in and I watched the antenna. I had it pointing East and Monday, yesterday, I slowly looked up and there it was still pointing East and still on top. Make sure you and your helpers know what they are doing and becareful. I asked my neighbors if they are ok with having my tower and antenna in my backyard and hopefully not blocking the view of Pikes Peak and she said to me "what am I going to do fight the government" Not what I wanted to hear but at least they know it's ok and I explained that the tower is grounded once and I will add two more 8ft ground rods, I could tell she was listening to me and I explained to her the reason for three 8ft ground rods. She seemed to understand. I've had no one in the neighborhood complain I believe they all know what the antennas are for and I say antennas because I have now eight antennas and two more to put up, the last ones are the Satelite antennas and the other is a Butternut HF5b. Besides my A3 I bought a new Cushcraft MA5B and it's at 30ft on a American Standard tower, 2 1/2 feet in the ground and bolted to the side of my RV garage.
Watch what your doing, make sure your helpers know what they are doing, take your time, watch the weather and your tower project should go up without a hitch. As everyone has said, guy, guy and guy your tower. Keep your neighbors happy, I even had a neighbor as a ground pounder and he wasnt a ham but he helped, he was the oldest there, 71 years old, but wasnt afraid to handle ropes. Another neighbor came over to watch, he watched the first time and came over for the re-run. Even asked questions mainly about the bands the antenna covered. He had no qualms about the tower, just couldnt use his fence for guys so moved them into the ground where they belonged in the first place.
Ok enough, don't be in a hurry, be careful and most of all make sure everyone knows their job on the ground and only one tower climber and be careful, I can't say that enough.
73s and good luck,
Mike, N0mud
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Towers...
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by W3QE on August 27, 2008
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The comment about the individuals who are stupid---in tower knowledge--- when we all are "amateurs" kills me.
Going on 27 years in this hobby using wires supported by pipes poles and trees or whatever. I have never owned a tower but at one time from sheer peer pressure felt it as necessary as a heartbeat is. Lucky me I regained my senses and never did put up a tower with all the included headaches costs and nightmares.
I like the ads that read: Free tower, must take down and carry away--- from the poor widow left with that huge burden because her husband insisted he needed that monstrosity out in the back yard to complete his “amateur” hobby.
I remember reading here on eHam about the guy who climbed up a very old rusty tower that was moved around several times, half way up or so it came crashing down, this guy included. Then people started writing how sad it was. One writer knew the poor soul saying how great he was and such an expert. Well that expert is now a permanent fixture in eternity teaching his fellow eternity friends the fine art of radio towers.
Using a 45 foot pipe and vertical run of I- beam to support it and wire fashioned into an inverted vee I have more DX worked that I could ask for.
For the life of me I can’t imagine why some individuals feel towers are necessary to “complete’ this hobby, and to read they even have a web based group that is run "professionally" so the "amateurs" who are members can become enlightened on the grander aspects of towers and all their glory.
I love how people will put time and tons of resources into things that just don't really matter, then take pictures of it and put in on their QSL proudly displaying it on QRZ or some other site so everyone can see the glory emanating from it.
Now you know how this ham feels about towers and the waste of time money and thought that they definitely are.
Flame away all you believers, I am beyond caring what anyone thinks or I would have never written this.
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by K0BG on August 27, 2008
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I just have to add a few items here, with some fear of rubbing salt into a wound. But...
If you don't know which end of a guy cable is the dead end, you shouldn't be trying to put the tower up yourself! What's more, not one person suggested torquing the U-bolts, but you should. In fact, the upper ends of the guys should be finished first, and re-torqued before they're actually installed.
And what about torque arms? If you're turning a lot of mass, torque arms become a prerequisite. Yet, you see very few amateur towers with them installed.
Tom mentioned using the correct turn buckles, and that's very important. And so is turn buckle safety threading. You don't see them very often on amateur towers, which is an accident waiting to happen.
I'm sure tower manufacturers build in a safety factor for all things tower-related, including the concrete base. However, it's a little hard to measure the concrete's slump when you use Sacrete or similar products. Mix it wrong, and the base won't be as strong as you think. This is especially important when erecting self supporting towers which rely heavily on the strength of the concrete. If you don't know what slump is, then you need to read up before you erect your tower.
Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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RE: Towers...
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by KB9CRY on August 27, 2008
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What's more, not one person suggested torquing the U-bolts, but you should. In fact, the upper ends of the guys should be finished first, and re-torqued before they're actually installed.
And even better, which most probably never do, is it test and retorque the U-bolts during their annual maintenance!!!!
How many of you do that?
It's the best argument for going with Big Grips, which are maintenance free.
And what about torque arms? If you're turning a lot of mass, torque arms become a prerequisite. Yet, you see very few amateur towers with them installed.
We can take this off line or to another topic but torque arms, to me, are a bunch of nonsense. They don't do diddly. (Be prepared to discuss conservation of momentum if you wish.) That's why pier pin and even better pier pin tapered bases are used by commercial installations.
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RE: Towers...
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by N8NSN on August 27, 2008
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AF6G says;
I'm no expert but I recall reading that grounding the rebar invites damage (and a serious safety hazard) of the tower base in the event of a lightning hit on the tower.
Yes, ground the tower at it's base but I don't think grounding the rebar is good idea.
Comments?
This is my comment on rebar grounding...
I really hope the engineers from the city where I live were not wrong on this. I had the same idea; To NOT ground the rebar. My thinking was that a direct hit to the tower, with the rebar grounded as well as the tower, could cause the concrete to "explode". Chances are, If the rebar is grounded or not and the tower takes a direct hit the concrete will most likely be compromised. Period. So, per the city engineer request I grounded the rebar as well as the tower legs.
K6AER writes...
The issue I have with the above statement is the climbing belt. You should have a climbing harness with fall protection strap. Sola or Elk River are the best and they only cost about $400. OSHA has outlawed the use of climbing belts with tower work some time ago. The problem with a climbing belt is if you fall the “G” force when you stop will break you back or worse.
...Good point ...read on
On the Harness vs. Belt. I know what you say is absolutely correct. I will not argue that point. A Harness is MUCH safer than a belt.
Being a retired electrician, I happened to still have my Klein 5278N24 belt. I have kept it "solid" over the years with good leather conditioning products. I always inspect it thoroughly before I ever use it. I am absolutely certain a "new" harness would be the safer alternative. I just don't have the vision to understand where purchasing a harness, that will be used only a hand full of times, to replace something (belt) I have been intimate with for quite some time and has always served my needs safely and effectively, would make good sense. No intention to argue here.
After a LOT of thought on your posting... I guess E-Ham should remove this article before someone uses a belt instead of a harness, falls, gets hurt and sues e-ham for allowing this information to be presented with the use of a belt instead of a harness and in appearances deeming this practice safe. I have to offer you many thanks for pointing out something in the article that really is dead on wrong. Honestly, Thanks.
On the gloves... That is something where you are off target (IMO). Gloves are for ground men and rope handlers. Gloves on a tower can make you "slip and fall". Wearing gloves, with the use of hand tools, is simply out of the question. For me anyway... I have never once seen or worked with anyone who used gloves on a tower. Yes, the metal can fatigue the hands. Yes, the metal is down right cold in the winter. The fact that some burs are going to knick you now and then goes with the territory and is expected. I guess it is a matter of preference on whether to wear gloves or not when on a tower. Again, for me, out of the question.
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RE: Towers...
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by N9FE on August 27, 2008
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The Slump of a concete mix has little to do with strenth. The strenth of concrete is the amount of cement in the mix. You can pour a four bag mix at a 1/2 inch slump which will be weak. Or you can pour a six or better a nine bag mix at a 3-4 inch slump and have a much better result. Slump is the amount of water added. A six bag one stone footing mix is good enough for any home tower. Also Sacrete is NOT concrete. Sacrete is gravel with some cement thrown in to make it hold together. Sacrete is for mail box and fence posts, not towers. If your building a tower contact your local concrete contractor or redi mix concrete company. You'll be glad you did...
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RE: Towers...
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by K5UJ on August 27, 2008
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I agree with some of W3QE's comments. I've observed ham "tower parties" and concluded that the best way to put up a tower is to figure out a way to not have to have a tower and failing that, spend the money on hiring professionals to do the work. But you still have to figure out how to do the maintenance. And I have also seen far too many elderly widows saddled with some jerk's tower farm because he couldn't do his family a favor and get them taken down before the wife and kids got saddled with all this steel they never wanted.
Before any of you start listening to all these ham self-appointed tower experts on the internet, ask yourselves what they do in life to earn a living. I bet 99% of them do or did something other than professional tower work. ("Uh, I'm an uh, accountant.") I'd find someone else to get advice from.
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Towers...
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by W1ITT on August 27, 2008
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I'm all for saving a dollar, but it needs to be emphasized that the place NOT to try to save money is on hardware, bolts, nuts, cable clamps, U-bolts, turnbuckles, thimbles, etc. With few exceptions, the stuff you find at the local chain hardware store is barely good enough to hang out the laundry. Get the real items even though it may seem painfully expensive at the time. I've been pretty happy with the products from Texas Towers, among others.
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RE: Towers...
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by G3LBS on August 27, 2008
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I'm too old now for heavy engineering so I hang my home-brew spider quad from a rope catenary between the trees. The tennis ball launcher is the best thing I bought, and the spider quad the best antenna because the spacing is correct on all bands (compare Yagis).
We need more articles here and in QST to help people with little money and strength, but lots of experience.
Buffalo Gil W2/G3LBS
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RE: Towers...
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by W3LK on August 27, 2008
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K5UJ:
<< And I have also seen far too many elderly widows saddled with some jerk's tower farm because he couldn't do his family a favor and get them taken down before the wife and kids got saddled with all this steel they never wanted. >>
Agreed. How rude of the jerk to not plan his unexpected death a little better! And get rid of everything he enjoyed beforehand, to boot.
Your post had to be the dumbest thing I have read in a long, long time. You, sir, are the jerk!
73,
Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut
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RE: Towers...
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by K6AER on August 27, 2008
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“On the gloves... That is something where you are off target (IMO). Gloves are for ground men and rope handlers. Gloves on a tower can make you "slip and fall". “
I don’t know what kind of gloves you were using but I don’t know of a single experience tower climber who will go up a tower without gloves on their hands.
Galvanized towers and the metal work have sharp edges and I can think of nothing more slippery than blood on your hands (no pun intended). Tower metal work is hot but maybe you don’t climb in the summer but I climb year around. If you do tower work in the winter and your hands won’t last a minute when the temperatures go below 32 degrees.
I also carry a spare set of gloves incase I drop one of my gloves. Not using gloves on towers is like climbing barefoot. Last year one of my tower climbers lost his gloves and he tried to climb down with his bare hands. He only got 100 feet before his hand blistered from the heat and we had to bring him up a spare set of gloves. He was out for three weeks before his paws healed.
While we are on the subject of clothing and such, you should have steel toed boots with a steel or a Kevlar instep shank. A sun shield for the back of your neck and water to keep from being dehydrated.
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Towers...
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by W9JCM on August 27, 2008
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I installed a 25G and have a KT34A on top with NO issues at all. I will not put anything else on the tower nor will I EVER install a tower again that's is like a Rohn its not that I can't climb it but why make it hard on yourself? I will only install a tilt over or crank up end of story. As for the guy ripping on the mans tower install with the stepper and didn't like his guy clamps. Its still up isn't it? Sometimes "the book" isn't going to work right seems like he did just fine.
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The scope of the article.
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by N8NSN on August 27, 2008
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What initially prompted the writing this article? It was hearing many people talking about wanting to put up a SMALL tower. What was I hearing? Most considered the task then gave up on the idea when new tower prices were researched. In this article the intent was to "offer a decent alternative" to the large costs encountered with putting up a new Light Duty Small structure. NONE of this article was directed toward a person considering putting up a "larger and/or heavier duty" tower. This was NOT an article designed to be directed toward the "Erection Specialist".
/:O
I am however, very pleased to see that a few "professionals" have offered their contributions. Maybe, a good re-read is in line for a few who have somehow thought other directions were intended from the write.
I intentionally left out a LOT of details on this article . I had no wish to clutter the main point which was/is, "putting up a tower can be economical and still safe". I have made no claim to be a professional tower person. If my writing came across as if I was trying to "appear" to be a professional in this trade; This was far from the objective or scope of the offering. Perhaps, this perception was due to some pretty good writing skills? I do my very best to "share" the information, learned over the years, in the most clear and articulate means I am capable of. This has served me well (most times). These communication skills have also rendered me with a sore eye, a time or two, inflicted by an individual who was short on the means of effective debate, thus resorting to the primal resources and instincts of the physical altercation. tee hee hee... where do I come up with this stuff?
I think each and every reply to the original writing is valid, educational and very much appreciated. This is how we ALL learn. We learn from others' experiences and skills.
By the way (IMO) means "in my opinion". (IMPO) means "in my professional opinion". This of course, is operative when the terms are used.
Thanks again to all.
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RE: The scope of the article.
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by WB2WIK on August 27, 2008
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The article was a fine effort.
I've installed towers professionally as a licensed contractor (1988-1995) and then I stopped for various reasons, including making enough money without doing that and getting a little bit nervous as I grew older and gained a few pounds. (I used to be a flyweight at 135 lbs when I started this!) Just 10-20 extra pounds makes climbing more cumbersome, and the extra load on the back, feet and overall body makes it more of a chore than I wanted to endure.
I still climb my own tower, of course, and those of a few friends. The tower installing business isn't so much fun. I had a $1M insurance policy that started costing more each year, and had to subcontract super tall jobs to professional Steeplechases because I didn't like climbing 200 feet and higher anymore. Not so much that it's a long way down, as it's a long way "up," and "up" is the tiring part.
Even at $200 an hour it didn't seem worth the risk, so I dissolved the business. And hams don't want to pay $200 an hour. I still get calls from places like the City of Beverly Hills -- I had to charge them $450/hour because of extra insurance riders and some subcontracted work, but they were very happy with the results (installed police dept. repeater antennas on a 170' water tower) and kept calling for years.
I continue to be impressed by those who do this work for a living, as I know how hard it can be on one's body. As Mike K6AER said (and he's a professional installer), the right gear is an absolute necessity and the gear can cost thousands of dollars, and it does wear out.
I saw the expose on TV about this subject and when they said something about $35 an hour all I could do is laugh myself off the easy chair. For $35 an hour, I wouldn't build dipoles on the ground! What nuts!
After reading this article I went in the garage and gave my $400 climbing harness a hug. I'm happy to not be using it much, anymore.
WB2WIK/6
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RE: Tower safety
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by KASSY on August 27, 2008
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Based on the original article, and the replies, I get the idea that most hams are willing to do something without really knowing what they're doing.
The article author - you bracketed a tower to a house. That's just plain dumb, unless you removed the siding and inspected the integrity of whatever sub-structure you bolted that bracket to. How do you know your lag bolts didn't go into a cracked part of the stud or plate? Or that your lag bolts did not CAUSE such a crack? In commercial buildings, when they attach a tower to a building wall, they put a massive plate on the inside of the building - placed right against the sheetrock or interior wall material. You can SEE the plate, an inspector can inspect it.
One of my neighors had a tower come down. Turns out the wall stud that he drove his lag bolts into was not exactly on the 16" centers and most of his lag bolts ended up only half in the stud.
TIA-222 is a must-have for installing a tower. You don't just start with 80 feet of Rohn 25 and start digging a hole. You have to calculate wind loads, and predict your soil failure point and,,and,,,and,,,and,,,,
And what is "expensive"? I was GIVEN a tower, a bunch of Rohn 55 sections. I paid $375 for a proper PE to look over my proposal and write it up for the ccounty to issue the permits that made it fully legal. Then, FOUR concrete pours - one for the base, and one for each guy anchor. NOBODY uses railroad ties for guy anchors, unless they haven't been around much. It was $2000 in concrete pouring, and another $1800 in guy cables and proper guy clamps, spec'd for those guy cables, which were spec'd for my wind area and the antennas that I proposed.
To me, that is not cheap. The tower installation was, by a HUGE margin, the single most expensive part of my ham radio setup. A used tribander, a used shorty forty, used HF rig and used HF amplifier all together cost less than just the tower install and guy wires.
In most places, if your antenna ends up above a neighbor's property line, you're in violation of zoning, whether your neighbor is OK with it or not.
I'm glad I had it done right....I sleep well at night, and I know if I get a nosy neighbor, I've got all kinds of documentation to show that all the legalities were taken care of.
- k
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more details
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by N8NSN on August 28, 2008
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Every second or third reply, this late in the thread, to the original article has me signing on to provide more details.
once again... Details were left out in order to just make a point that a LIGHT DUTY tower does not have to be expensive. Let me repeat that just one more time for good measure... LIGHT DUTY TOWER.
I made an effort to share some basic information. I guess some people want the whole book to be written for this type of forum or they're just not satisfied. Then again, I am sure if each and every detail of the installation process were placed in the article those very same people would have been complaining and making references to how "dumb" I am or how much better of a "job" they could have done. Most likely those same people would have been complaining on the length of the piece and the lack of high quality in my photographs as well. It is a given that some will find fault in EVERYTHING.
None of this next paragraph is necessary. If you are not "KASSY" please move on to the next reply. I really am displeased when ANYONE calls another person "dumb". Most generally a person only calls another person "dumb" when there is no detailed information on the person who is assumed to be "dumb". So, I rant on...
In particular to responder "KASSY" (on an amateur radio forum with no call sign identity and wants to reference people with insulting terms... What a "big" person) Why would you say I am "dumb" for bracing to the house? I know that part was done right even though I made my own brackets. Of course I went into the attic and installed reenforcement inside the structure. Sounds like your "friends", whom experienced this type of failure, did not know enough to drill the holes for everything and be on the mark and use "nuts and bolts" instead of "lag wood screws". KASSY, not everyone around you is an idiot. As soon as you come to that realization you may actually avoid such ridiculous statements as calling someone, you have no knowledge of, dumb. All the work on this project, including the H.B. bracket system, received an "atta boy" from the city inspectors. Maybe you are assuming the city inspectors are dumb too? Maybe, in your mind, you are the only person on this earth who isn't dumb? So, your assumption that I am "dumb", as you put it, is far off base. Your assumption is what I find "Dumb". The posters with no call always seem to make the most obnoxious responses. <shrugs>
The whole "dumb" statement could have just as easily been a "suggestion to all" on bracketing a tower to a structure. Instead you chose a personal statement to the possibly of my being "dumb" with YOUR ASSUMPTION that I did not brace to the home safely. Assumptions are made by DUMB people or at least, in this case, made by a person with limited social skills, in a blind statement, with a half cocked mouth (fingers on the keys in this case). Good day to you my fellow "radio op with no call". BTW... I sleep really good at night too, even through the windy mid-western weather.
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RE: Towers...
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by KB6QXM on August 28, 2008
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How I resolved the issue was based on a couple of factors, my means and the changing attitudes of new hams that are entering ham radio.
My solution was to purchase tower trailers.
The reason why I chose tower trailers was simple. I have been out of ham radio for over 20 years. When I moved to my new QTH, I joined the local ham club. I introduced myself and asked who would be interested in joining me for a couple of tower parties. (BBQ also). 20 plus years ago, people would line up to help. I found NO ONE to assist in the ham club. All of the newbies (before the code requirement drop from the FCC) had their entire stations on their belts (ie: HT's). They had no interest in helping a fellow ham with his HF station.
My solution was to invest in expensive tower trailers. This solution allowed me to put up my own tower with little to no assistance, not worry about county permits (temporary structure) and allow me to put the tower where I wanted. The good news is that I have land and the means to afford such an expensive solution. The lack of concern of the local hams helped me in choosing my solution.
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RE: more details
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by N8NSN on August 28, 2008
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RE: more details Reply
by G3LBS on August 28, 2008
What's a KASSY please I am a naive Brit
Greetings Gil,
There is no naivety to your question. "KASSY" is a name a certain responder, to this article used, whom made the implication that one of my processes in the installation was "dumb". Last reference I heard of the name Kassy; It was a shortened version of the name Kassandra.
73,
jimmie
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RE: more details
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by KG4ZVA on August 28, 2008
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<< And I have also seen far too many elderly widows saddled with some jerk's tower farm because he couldn't do his family a favor and get them taken down before the wife and kids got saddled with all this steel they never wanted. >>
Agreed. How rude of the jerk to not plan his unexpected death a little better! And get rid of everything he enjoyed beforehand, to boot.
Your post had to be the dumbest thing I have read in a long, long time. You, sir, are the jerk!
73,
Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut
==========
Who's the jerk? The widow? Or the old man who died leaving his widow with all the unwanted gear? Maybe you should talk to a few of those widows. They put up with his hobby for all that time and then she has to get it all taken care of by herself afterwards? Most intelligent people make plans for when they depart this life. Others just do what they want and dont care how it affects others which seems to be where you fit in. How many towers do you have? Do you have plans for when your gone? Or will you just leave it all to others to have to deal with. I believe YOUR post is the DUMBEST reply on here. And to quote you in all your greatness: "You,sir, are the jerk!"
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RE: more details
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by KG4ZVA on August 28, 2008
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RE: Do You Have a Little More Power? Reply
by W3LK on August 13, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
AF3Y:
Gene, you beat me to it. Don't you just love a newbee know-it-all?
73,
Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut
=======
How about using all this "intelligence" that just exudes from all your pores to actually post something constructive or even in reference to the article posted instead of immature stupidity and name calling?
And AGAIN to quote you: "You,sir,are the jerk!"
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RE: more details
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by KASSY on August 28, 2008
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Mister OP,
I am sorry for miscommunicating. I did not call you dumb. I called your action dumb. If you are spiritually unable to identify yourself distinct from your actions, then there is nothing anybody can to to help you with that particular problem.
I thank you for your clarification on your method of install of the bracket.
I have seen literally dozens of websites showing a house bracket, done quite incorrectly. I have seen such articles in the print magazines, and I have seen photos of improperly-mounted brackets on the websites of companies who sell brackets.
Given the plethora of poorly-done house bracket mounts, someone making the claim that he did a "house bracket mount" without any details, is going to be assumed to have done it in a manner similar to how it's been described in abundance elsewhere.
In this case, I am sorry you were unaware of such bad advice being out there in droves...had you known that, you probably would have clarified how you went about it, since the start of your article clearly implied that you were going to provide "a good number of things to be considered". That statement, of course, is why your readers understood the rest of your article to be as detailed as they expected it to be. Please pardon your readers for believing that your article followed on naturally from your opening statement.
Relating to "kassy". It's a nickname I have used at times. Nothing more needs to be known about me. Pay attention to my words, not me.
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RE: more details
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by WB2WIK on August 29, 2008
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>RE: more details Reply
by KASSY on August 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Relating to "kassy". It's a nickname I have used at times. Nothing more needs to be known about me. Pay attention to my words, not me.<
::It takes some extremely inspiring words for anonymous authors to glean attention and few writers in history have achieved any anonymously. I wouldn't start here.
If you want people to pay attention to your words, they'll likely want to know who you are, first. I know I would.
<End of attention.>
WB2WIK/6
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RE: more details
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by K1CJS on August 31, 2008
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>>>Who's the jerk? The widow? Or the old man who died leaving his widow with all the unwanted gear? Maybe you should talk to a few of those widows. They put up with his hobby for all that time and then she has to get it all taken care of by herself afterwards?
Most intelligent people make plans for when they depart this life. Others just do what they want and dont care how it affects others which seems to be where you fit in. How many towers do you have? Do you have plans for when your gone? Or will you just leave it all to others to have to deal with. I believe YOUR post is the DUMBEST reply on here. And to quote you in all your greatness: "You,sir, are the jerk!"<<<
There really isn't any cause for namecalling, since most hams DO take care of the disposal of their gear. Once in a while, one will pass on without that being done, but usually the widow or the relatives also know the friends of the departed ham and they have them take care of the unwanted gear.
In any event, ham radio is like any other hobby. How about a man whose hobby is drag racing? Parts, any cars, and usually a workshop has to be disposed of. Just because ham radio towers cost a lot to install and to take down means diddly.
As to calling someone a jerk, anybody who thinks disposal of unwanted things from any hobby a departed persons is involved with, no matter how complex or time consuming or not, is fun for the widow/widower or the family, IS ONE.
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RE: Towers...
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by PLANKEYE on August 31, 2008
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K5UJ SPEAKS:
And I have also seen far too many elderly widows saddled with some jerk's tower farm because he couldn't do his family a favor and get them taken down before the wife and kids got saddled with all this steel they never wanted.
__________________________________________________
PLANKEYE:
So you have seen far too many elderly widows saddled with some jerk's tower farm?
Really?
Man, what's up?
You sound like that KG4ZVA.
SILLY!!
Try thinkng before you speak.
And have RESPECT!!
PLANKEYE
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RE: Towers...
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by PLANKEYE on August 31, 2008
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The article was a fine effort.
I've installed towers professionally as a licensed contractor (1988-1995) and then I stopped for various reasons, including making enough money without doing that and getting a little bit nervous as I grew older and gained a few pounds. (I used to be a flyweight at 135 lbs when I started this!) Just 10-20 extra pounds makes climbing more cumbersome, and the extra load on the back, feet and overall body makes it more of a chore than I wanted to endure.
I still climb my own tower, of course, and those of a few friends. The tower installing business isn't so much fun. I had a $1M insurance policy that started costing more each year, and had to subcontract super tall jobs to professional Steeplechases because I didn't like climbing 200 feet and higher anymore. Not so much that it's a long way down, as it's a long way "up," and "up" is the tiring part.
Even at $200 an hour it didn't seem worth the risk, so I dissolved the business. And hams don't want to pay $200 an hour. I still get calls from places like the City of Beverly Hills -- I had to charge them $450/hour because of extra insurance riders and some subcontracted work, but they were very happy with the results (installed police dept. repeater antennas on a 170' water tower) and kept calling for years.
I continue to be impressed by those who do this work for a living, as I know how hard it can be on one's body. As Mike K6AER said (and he's a professional installer), the right gear is an absolute necessity and the gear can cost thousands of dollars, and it does wear out.
I saw the expose on TV about this subject and when they said something about $35 an hour all I could do is laugh myself off the easy chair. For $35 an hour, I wouldn't build dipoles on the ground! What nuts!
After reading this article I went in the garage and gave my $400 climbing harness a hug. I'm happy to not be using it much, anymore.
WB2WIK/6
_________________________________________________
I thought this was a great article, very informative and well written.
This is a fun hobby. Not so much when you are dead or hurt very badly.
Read above. These guys know a Hell of Alot more than most people about this subject. Listen to them before you start your tower project.
Re-read this stuff!!
Re-read this stuff!!
Be safe and have FUN!!
PLANKEYE
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RE: Towers...
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by AB5KT on September 14, 2008
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KC8BYF,
Thanks for taking the time to post your experience of setting up a budget-type tower installation.
I am one ham that wants to install a similar project. I used to live in a subdivision and have since moved to some acreage and now have that opportunity.
I don't need a tower, but sometimes a tower is needed when trying to achieve a specific propagation plan, or that a property is at an elevation that could benefit from added height.
Of course safety and properly planning is vital in tower erection, or any other project in ham radio for that matter.
I am dismayed by all of the "expert advice" in this thread that range from viewpoints of 'you MUST hire an expert installer', 'certain death will occur', to the snobby reply speaking about 27 years in the hobby and no need for a tower, because towers are suggestive of a ham trying to achieve GLORY.
I sometimes wonder who these old-timers are and why they continue to bash and flame, rather than "Elmer", assist, guide, mentor, etc.
KC8BYF, again thanks. Your article was very interesting.
AB5KT
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Towers...
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by N3ANT on September 14, 2008
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Mail this to a friend!
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Hi Jimmie,
Thank you and all the comments people have put up about towers ! ! ! also I like to comment about that 8K ULTRA that is for sale on ebay ... I can't believe a CB'r would spend all that money on a amp just to be a big guy on the 11 meter band ! ! ! tore up the amp with all the problems he listed ! ! ! if you look at what he got off of ebay ... the parts to fix the amp and a echo microphone ! ! ! What a shame ! ! ! I offered him $8,500 for the amp then I seen it on ebay ! ! ! I'm glad I didn't get it ! ! ! he has a write up on reviews on eham about the amp. Why does eham let cb'rs do reviews about ham equipment ! ! ! I guess that's why I am not a member of eham .
Thank you for the info on towers ! ! !
73's to all... Antnee - N3ANT
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