Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

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Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

Robert D. Junk (KA5JRX) on September 20, 2008
View comments about this article!

I enjoy CW. I first received my Ham license in 1974. I have never operated in any mode other than code with a straight key. No reason for not working any other mode, I simply like to make contact with the unknown by Morse code.

Sometimes while listening and monitoring the bands, I will hear some operators sending out a CQ CQ CQ except it sounds like CX CX CX. Some operators are simply sending sloppy code. It may irritate the heck out of me to hear CX CX CX and I refuse to answer such bad code.

Well, this ole Navy Radioman Petty Officer Third Class must have gotten pretty sloppy over the years. I received a card in the mail last week saying so. It was a simple white card, addressed to me on one side and a description of my terrible code sending on the other side.

It reads: OM-IF UD CALL CQ INSTEAD OF CX, YOU'D GET AN ANSWER! GOOD OPS WON'T ANSWER LIDS/POOR CW. PSE CORRECT UR SK KEYING. Q IS dah dah dit dah, NOT dah dit dit dah!

Signed: A CONCERNED HAM.

I hung that card right in front of my workstation where I do my operating so I can always see it while I am on the air. It was a very rude way for a fellow Ham to make a point, effective but rude. A simple reply like: 'OM you need to work on you CQ calling' would have worked just fine. And the advice could have been accomplished while in a QSO. Someone out there chose to send a 27 cents card to make a point and of course was not man enough (or woman enough) to sign it.

I guess I really got under the skin of some perfect CW operator out there. I will try my best to not send any more CX CX CX. Don't think anyone can take the fun out of ham radio from me though; I enjoy it very much.

So in the event that person in SAGINAW, MI. might read this and would like to let me know who you are so I may thank you for the advice, let me hear from you OM. And good luck with your personality issues. By the way, what in the heck was meant by the 'LIDS/CW'?

Member Comments:

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Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by N7YA on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

In my opinion...you were the real man in all this by using it to make yourself better instead of retaliating. As for that guy, the idea was good, the execution was rude.

Im still not sure what the reason for posting this up here was, but no worries...i've never heard of this type of thing before so now i can say that i have.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by N7YA on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Nevermind, i just saw why you reposted...i just got off work and its late.

Ive been a bug guy for 25 years, before that it was straight keys...its hard to be perfect on those things, but i love using them. Why? its fun.

I dont live in a totaltarianistic perfect world, but some folks do...but i think they should keep that to being a personal preference only.

If he doesnt like your fist...keep spinning the dial...no need to send a letter like that, but in the end, you can only get better. Ok, Sorry for the confusion. im tired...goodnight.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by W8JI on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

One of my most memorable events in amateur radio occured when I just got my General class. I was 12 or 13 years old and broke into a roundtable QSO on 75 meters.

I said "I'm not sure who is in here or what your names are but I just got my license and wanted to get a signal report...."yada yada yada on I went.

One of the W3 picked it back up and said "congratulations on the license upgrade, but let me explain something. People with manners don't break into a QSO not knowing who the people are and not knowing who the names are. It's rude and inconsiderate. That's what we call a LID."

That man was a true Elmer. He did exactly the right thing, and he was exactly right. He didn't let me go on to the next QSO being rude. I wasn't offended, I wasn't angry. I just never hollered "break" without knowing who was in a QSO or having something to contribute to the QSO after that. He helped me with something I didn't know or I didn't think about.

Years and years later I was on 75 meters in a conversation with several people. We were in a deep conversation about a particular specific topic, and right in the middle of an exchange where we were finally reaching understanding, someone busted in with their callsign "on the side" (no "break break" today).

I answered him thinking he had something to contribute and he said "You sure are coming in good. I just want a signal report....". I said "Why would you bust right in right in the middle of a long complicated exchange just to get a signal report? Would you do that on the street to strangers in the midddle of huddle that are talking?". A few people piped up and told me how rude I was.

In my opinion, we have all gotten far too sensitive or politically correct. We can no longer openly tell anyone anything they don't want to hear because no matter how rude or wrong they are and no matter how nice we say it, the political police will call you "cop", "jerk" or some other rude name.

If someone is 20 kHz wide, we can't tell them. If they have hum, we can't tell them. If they are being a LID and calling out of turn or when they shouldn't, we can't tell them. If there fist has gotten a little sloppy making them hard to understand, we can't tell them. If they don't understand an antenna, we can't tell them. If they say something wrong, we can't tell them.

In my opinion this has forced people to send unsigned postcards, and this is why we are a nation of LID's with a bad broken government. When a President is wrong, we can't tell him. When a kid is rude or doing something wrong, we can't tell him.

We should all put our big-boy panties on and appreciate the fact that the rude guy who sent the postcard probably was afraid someone would react like a modern spoiled brat and get all mad about it instead of acting like the mature adult people we really are.

I look around and wonder why the hell we ever stopped telling each other right from wrong, and why that became a sin.

73 Tom

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by AD5X on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

W8JI - "I look around and wonder why the hell we ever stopped telling each other right from wrong, and why that became a sin."

Because you'll hurt my self-esteem!! Now if I could just get my wife to stop telling me when I'm wrong...

Phil - AD5X

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by N2EY on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

I don't think it was hate mail or rude. The ham let you know exactly what was wrong and how to fix it, without calling you a name or other insult.

If someone were to say to me "Your sending is terrible", I wouldn't know how to fix it. But if someone were to say "You run words together", I'd know.

It seems to me that the ham involved didn't want to insult you, he wanted to help you fix the problem and pointed the way.

73 de Jim, N2EY

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by N4OI on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

I try to reply to every CQ (or CX) I hear where I have a chance of making a complete CW QSO. Although I would never presume to correct someone else, I would actually appreciate being told where I could tighten up my operating practices (I know a few places I am working on already). I only operate an iambic paddle and keyer, but understand the challenges of making those old bugs sing or getting a hand and wrist to rhythmically pound a straight key. I love to chat on CW and if I can copy your fist, it makes no difference to me if it is a bit "ragged"... just keep showing up and pounding brass -- I look forward to meeting you on the bands. 73 es God Bless de Ken N4OI dit dit

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by N2EY on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

W8JI writes:

"He didn't let me go on to the next QSO being rude. I wasn't offended, I wasn't angry. I just never hollered "break" without knowing who was in a QSO or having something to contribute to the QSO after that. He helped me with something I didn't know or I didn't think about."

Great story!

I don't think *he* was rude, either.

(lots of other great stuff snipped to save space)

W8JI:"I look around and wonder why the hell we ever stopped telling each other right from wrong, and why that became a sin."

I think I know what happened, at least in ham radio.

"Courtesy" or "good manners" is really about making it possible for people to get along and feel good about themselves and others. For example, when everyone in a crowded checkout line waits their turn and moves as fast as they can when they get to the end, everyone feels better. It's just good practice, it saves time, and it feels good to do something as best it can be done. People feel better about themselves and better about others.

And when somebody does something to slow the line down, it's rude. Rudeness may be intentional or accidental, but either way it bothers others. (Like the person who is paying by check but doesn't even get the checkbook out until they hear the total, and then everyone waits while they write the check.)

Ham radio is no different; when everyone operates in a courteous, efficient fashion, we all have more fun with less effort.

But for that to happen, there have to be standards and people have to know what they are. It takes a certain thoughtfulness and discipline that has to be learned.

There's a certain mentality among hams that "it's only a hobby", which to some really means "there are no standards, so don't criticize".

This mentality pops up in all sorts of ways. Somebody has key clicks from a multi-kilobuck rig? Somebody gives their own call first, then yours? Somebody thinks reflected power is dissipated in the transmitter final? Somebody didn't listen before transmitting? Somebody wrote something technical or historic on the internet that is just plain wrong? Somebody mutilates "CQ"? (The list goes on forever).

The stock reply is: "So what? It's only a hobby!"

IOW, pointing out other people's rudeness has been redefined as being rude! But how are people supposed to know if they're not told?

Now there are certainly places where we need to step back and cool off. And there are nice ways to say something and nasty ways.

But a constant application of "it's only a hobby" promotes the idea that "anything goes".

Ironically, the end result is *more* rudeness and *more* people feeling bad, both about themselves and others.

Just because something is "a hobby" doesn't mean there are no standards.

The cure is obvious: Point out when something isn't right, and say what needs to happen to make it right. There *is* a difference!

73 de Jim, N2EY

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by W2BLC on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Some people are just more abrupt (say what is on their minds) than others.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by K4JC on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

W8JI - I agree. When I first got my ticket at age 14 I was still young and impressionable, and fortunate enough to have several hams who had no problem telling me when I was doing something wrong. They also were courteous enough to tell me when I was doing well. I learned so much from these people; my ham radio experience has been richer because of them.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by K9MHZ on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Don't worry about the "concered ham." If he was a man, he would have mentioned it to you directly while still on the air. Obviously, he's just a little weasel (notice the absence of a callsign on his little note to you), so don't give it another thought.

You're using CW, which says a lot. I've gotten rusty, so I'm sure your "Q" sounds much better than mine.

Best,

Brad
K9MHZ

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by W3ML on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Like some of you, I am an old timer, been a ham for 29 years and can remember when I started using CW as novice. My sending only improved through using it.

Now a-days it seems that everyone wants to run 20+ words a minute. There are some that don't know spacing at all and most of their words sound like one big word.

Also, people don't realize that there may be a medical problem causing the missed or wrong letters being sent.

I don't operate CW very much anymore because I am going deaf and also have arthritis in my hands so bad that I can't operate a bug and sometimes not the straight key. So, I just try to listen.

The word rude is much overused. I teach high school and I am always being told that I am rude. Of course I respond with no, you are insignificant, that usually shuts them up.

More and more people do forget this is a hobby, but a hobby with rules and standards.

John
W3ML

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by K0BG on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

I'm on Tom's side too!

You see the same sort of things here on eham.net. There are several who seemingly live to criticize others and hide behind an alias. Rather than banter with them, I ignore them as their comments are as noteworthy as their screen name.

Personally, I welcome constructive criticism, but only from those willing to back it with identity of purpose.

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by W9PMZ on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

"It reads: OM-IF UD CALL CQ INSTEAD OF CX, YOU'D GET AN ANSWER! GOOD OPS WON'T ANSWER LIDS/POOR CW. PSE CORRECT UR SK KEYING. Q IS dah dah dit dah, NOT dah dit dit dah!

Signed: A CONCERNED HAM. "

No profanity.

Maybe a little terse, but to the point.

The person didn't sign it probably due to the revenge factor that seems to haunt our society.

But in reality, again this post is an axe to grind with the poster hoping that the post card sender will see.

73,

Carl - W9PMZ

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by W9OY on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

There is a virtue called kindness. Kindness means you exercise your power in a way that does the most good or possibly the least damage.

There is something called "nice" which has been substituted for the virtue of kindness. Nice means YOU BEHAVE IN A MANNER THAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO ME OR THERE WILL BE HELL TO PAY. The virtue of kindness is associated with the virtues of fortitude and courage, both of which require putting yourself on the line to advance the common good. Being nice is not a virtue. It is merely validating someone else's selfishness. Being nice does have a cost. It means you have to subjugate yourself to the other persons selfishness. This is the basis of your post. This gent decided to NOT subjugate himself to your selfish expectation. He showed you great kindness not rudeness.

If you have sloppy code Petty Officer I suggest you work on that instead of whining that someone took the time to point that out to you. If you do not have sloppiness then simply ignore the criticism. But in the end it's your code that is being judged whether someone takes the time to call you on it or not. The code you send can be judged objectively apart from your whining. CQ is clearly discernible from CX by even a 5 year old. No amount of protestation about your "expertise" is going to make up for sloppy sending. None of us are perfect, but those that shine are the ones who are engaged in getting better.

So far this post looks pretty dim to me. It's just a plea for permission to remain mediocre.

73 W9OY

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by K1CJS on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

W9OY--I think you better reread the post. Robert thanked the anonymous sender for his card and asked them to get in touch so he could thank them personally. I think its just as wrong of you to think Bob wants to retaliate as it was that the sender didn't sign the card.

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by K1CJS on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

"In my opinion...you were the real man in all this by using it to make yourself better instead of retaliating. As for that guy, the idea was good, the execution was rude."

This is also my thinking because of one simple thing--that ham didn't sign the card, seemingly because he was too cowardly to.

"In my opinion, we have all gotten far too sensitive or politically correct. We can no longer openly tell anyone anything they don't want to hear because no matter how rude or wrong they are and no matter how nice we say it, the political police will call you "cop", "jerk" or some other rude name."

I have to go along with this too--but I would have to say many of us, not all.

"I don't think it was hate mail or rude. The ham let you know exactly what was wrong and how to fix it, without calling you a name or other insult."

Sorry, I disagree here. It can't be called hate mail, but the simple fact that the card wasn't signed made it EXTREMELY rude, no matter how the card was worded.

"You see the same sort of things here on eham.net. There are several who seemingly live to criticize others and hide behind an alias. Rather than banter with them, I ignore them as their comments are as noteworthy as their screen name."

There are those who post here--and not anonymously--who disagree with other posters, also not anonymous, and sometimes there is a good spirited discussion that results. Most of the time those people simply agree to disagree, and the matter ends there.

In your case, the person sent a card with no return address and no means for you to identify them--possibly simply because they feared a reply. It is sad that so many in this country are fraidy cat, cry baby, politically correct people. It just gives other people who do these 'attacks' a sense of power--a sense that nothing will come back their way because nobody wants to make trouble--except them. If we all would just stand our ground once in a while and make our case, or simply tell the other person that he or she are wrong--and not take their baloney, we would all be better off for it.

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by N4VNZ on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Tom, W8JI, you are EXACTLY right!

I had promised myself that I was not going to post again here on Eham but your comments were so succinct that I just had to agree publicly.

I was taught as a child to beware of "wearing my feelings on my sleeve" and to not have a "chip on my shoulder". We sure seem to see a lot of that these days...

Dave

Said it before & say it again

by N8NSN on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

What I am about to say, I have said this in a few postings previous to this one. Now, I will say it again.

What we have here is, in reality, just what we have asked for (in general terms).

-------------------------------------------------------

FROM W8JI (once again right on the mark)...

"In my opinion, we have all gotten far too sensitive or politically correct. We can no longer openly tell anyone anything they don't want to hear because no matter how rude or wrong they are and no matter how nice we say it, the political police will call you "cop", "jerk" or some other rude name.

If someone is 20 kHz wide, we can't tell them. If they have hum, we can't tell them. If they are being a LID and calling out of turn or when they shouldn't, we can't tell them. If there fist has gotten a little sloppy making them hard to understand, we can't tell them. If they don't understand an antenna, we can't tell them. If they say something wrong, we can't tell them.

In my opinion this has forced people to send unsigned postcards, and this is why we are a nation of LID's with a bad broken government. When a President is wrong, we can't tell him. When a kid is rude or doing something wrong, we can't tell him."

-------------------------------------------------------

OK... Here is the "IMO" in the matter.

I welcome any criticism to my observation...

"We" have allowed this to happen..." We, as a society, have allowed the whole, "It takes a village" BS philosophy to over take our entire lives. There is no legal way to discipline any one, young or old. Worse yet when you "correct" someones errors you become the "bad guy". I don't want to side track these facts too much so, I will attempt to stick to the point.

That point, as I have said a few times before, is; We have raised a couple generations of selfish brats in the "new wave" of enabling standards. Here is what I have said before and will say again...

-----We give the kids a trophy for nothing more than participating on the team.-----

Now really, sit back and think about that statement for a few minutes. It will likely take far less time than a few minutes to digest what this whole philosophy has delivered. Rewarding insignificance produces nothing more than insignificance.

-------------------------------------------------------

W3ML says,...

"The word rude is much overused. I teach high school and I am always being told that I am rude. Of course I respond with no, you are insignificant, that usually shuts them up."

-------------------------------------------------------

John, can I just shake your hand? The statement you have posted there made my day !

When we don't correct people and, rudely or kindly, point them in the right direction; We wind up with failure on just about any level. Failure, from a losing ball team right up to any governing (take your pick) administration, is what the enabling, spineless and politically correct standards we live in today, delivers!

Now; All you crybaby dumb masses who wish to promote the "follow the leader", "save me from myself" and "I am a winner for the mere fact that I have participated" ways of the days; Stay with that and let me know how it works out for you in the end.

I love a good rant.

73 & "You may already be a wiener",
jimmie (KC8BYF)

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by N4KC on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Well, I take the attitude that it is a constructive thing to do to correct someone when they do something that is considered to be a bad practice or have obvious technical problems. That applies to newcomers and OTs equally. If I'm playing golf and one of the others in my foursome makes a suggestion about my swing, I'm not going to punch him in the mouth. I'm going to tell him, "Thanks," and decide if it is a good idea to take his advice.

I always try to correct someone politely, but I do it...not because I am a perfect op, always send beautiful CW, or know all there is to know about audio or amplifier loading. And it's not because I take the hobby so seriously that I demand perfection from everyone who pursues it. I do it politely because I think that is always the best way to deal with other people...as long as you can. And I do it so the other op may learn enough to avoid encountering somebody else who will be far less diplomatic!

Believe me, if you break into a QSO I'm in by yelling, "Contact!" I WILL suggest you use your call sign instead. If you give me your "personal," I'll most likely recommend you speak normally, without the jargon, and give me your "name." And if you have hum, splatter or distortion, I'll let you know so you will be able to fix the problem.

I would appreciate it if you would do the same favor for me. Thank you.

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.n4kc.blogspot.com
www.donkeith.com

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by WR8Y on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

""""""" It reads: OM-IF UD CALL CQ INSTEAD OF CX, YOU'D GET AN ANSWER! GOOD OPS WON'T ANSWER LIDS/POOR CW. PSE CORRECT UR SK KEYING. Q IS dah dah dit dah, NOT dah dit dit dah!

Signed: A CONCERNED HAM. """"""""

Nothing rude there that I can see. And the fact that he was anonymous? Doesnt bother me - he cared enough to write.

Where was this guy (or guys like him) in 1974? I got my ticket, and still have a log book showing 51 CQ's with no answer! I recorded my CW once on a tape recorder (don't remember why) and left my room for a bit, I heard a CQ from down the hall and thought, "That guy is running his letters together". I walked down the hall to find that my little brother was playing my tape - I was hearing my own awful sending!!!!!

I exagerrated my spacing and got an answer to my CQ in just a few minutes - lesson learned! Why didn't someone just TELL me how bad I was?

73,
WN8VUX
(I mean, WR8Y!)

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by K6CRC on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

"It's just a plea for permission to remain mediocre." and "Take your critique like a man"

I am a relatively new ham, but an older guy. I have worked in most areas of the electronic business, from field service tech to Director at a public company. Before college, I drove trucks, sorted packages, and worked on oil rigs. I have lived from California to Colorado to Hong Kong. I know a small bit about people.

In my short tenure in the hobby, I have talked to far too many hams who would say "I slapped you around, please thank me". Great if you are motivating Navy SEALS, but miserable for everyone else.

I have also talked to a number of new hams, young and old, and most have agreed - there are far too many brash social misfits and too few wise gentlemen in this hobby. There are enough interesting and helpful people to make the hobby worthwhile, but that means a lot of dial spinning.

There are a million ways to send a message or make a point. We saw one of the bad ways of doing it.

Sorry folks, you can sit in your cave and read Ayn Rand all day, but if you need to interact, motivate, or even live with anyone else in our society, 'NICE' is as important as sending a clear message.

'Nice' and 'Clear' are not mutually exclusive, just difficult to deliver at the same time. Learning that skill is hard work. it is very easy to simply blurt out what is on your minds then whine about the reactions. It is difficult to frame your comments in a way that makes a point without being insulting.

You can attack someone for their CW string, circuit design, or code block, then complain about the way they reacted to being set 'right'. You may be logically correct, but you may also be friendless and unemployed.

In the end, we can be a large hobby of generally tolerant people, or a small hobby of objectivists. An asset to our society, or yet another group of complaining that everyone else is wrong. It is our choice.

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by KA5JRX on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Thanks to all of you who are reading this and making comments. I really welcome criticism and learn from people who let me know if I am doing something wrong. I have been corrected many times over the years and I may have been a little embarrassed but never mad. I honestly have improved from this incident. I don't want to know who the fellow Ham was that sent me that card. He let me know that I was messing up and he let me know that by his chosen means. It did offend me at first because he did not identify himself. But after reading some of these comments, I understand some of the possible reasons he chose to not. Thanks again.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by WB2WIK on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Nice story.

Besides "CX" I hear a lot of guys (mostly old timers!) sending "CAA" or "C" followed by didahdidah. Since didahdidah isn't a letter, I made it "AA."

Whazzupwiddat?

I absolutely HATE the way most bug-users send. There are some exceptions, but I haven't found many. Bob, W6BNB is a notable exception whose fist on a bug sounds just like a keyer and paddle in the hands of a pro. But I think about one in a thousand can do that.

As for discomforting "welcomes," as a kid and a new General (age 14) I got interested in VHF weak signal work and put together a big, fat two meter station including a 500W amplifier and very large beam on a roof tower over my parents' house. But I was still a kid, and sounded like one, and like with Tom's story, I probably talked too long just due to the excitement of it all.

The problem was, I was this newbie kid with one of the strongest signals on the band for 100 miles in all directions. Everybody could recognize that part of it. What a big, fat, loud signal -- but what a silly kid behind it.

A few old timers corrected me and for a while I was afraid to transmit on the band for fear of p'ing somebody off. That's when I decided two meter CW was fun and better for DXing. I think I spent the next six months on 2m CW only, with the microphone in a drawer.

WB2WIK/6

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by N2EY on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

KC8BYF writes: ""We" have allowed this to happen...""

Yes, we have.

KC8BYF: "We, as a society, have allowed the whole, "It takes a village" BS philosophy to over take our entire lives."

No, we haven't. In fact, we've done just the opposite from what "it takes a village" (which is NOT BS) is really all about.

What "it takes a village" really means is that it's *everyone's* responsibility to uphold standards and values. In ham radio, that means we Elmer each other, rather than expecting somebody else to do it. It also means that we try to learn as well as teach.

KC8BYF: "There is no legal way to discipline any one, young or old."

Sure there is: Speak up. The ham who sent the card about the bad sending was right to do so, and perfectly legal. He was being a good member of the village.

KC8BYF: "Worse yet when you "correct" someones errors you become the "bad guy"."

In some cases, yes. But that's no reason not to speak up.

For example, in the sentence I quoted, the word should be "someone's" (possessive) not "someones" (plural). Am I a bad guy for pointing that out?

KC8BYF: "We have raised a couple generations of selfish brats in the "new wave" of enabling standards."

There have always been selfish brats. I think it's incorrect to label whole generations that way; I know too many young people who are hard working, intelligent, and most of all courteous to say it's a generational thing.

KC8BYF: "We give the kids a trophy for nothing more than participating on the team.

Now really, sit back and think about that statement for a few minutes. It will likely take far less time than a few minutes to digest what this whole philosophy has delivered. Rewarding insignificance produces nothing more than insignificance."

I don't see what's wrong with giving kids a trophy for being on the team. Nothing wrong at all. It is *not* insignificant!

What *is* wrong is if every player on every team gets the same trophy regardless of how they played. That says results don't matter, and it's just plain wrong.

W3ML: "The word rude is much overused. I teach high school and I am always being told that I am rude. Of course I respond with no, you are insignificant, that usually shuts them up."

IMHO, telling someone they are insignificant is rude. It's also inaccurate; if the kids are insignificant, why have a high school at all?

I think there's a better way to communicate what you're trying to say to the kids. Telling the truth isn't rude.

KC8BYF: "When we don't correct people and, rudely or kindly, point them in the right direction; We wind up with failure on just about any level."

That's 100% correct. In many cases, the person just doesn't know they're doing it wrong. In others, they don't care. Either way, "the village" (meaning all of us) needs to let them know.

KC8BYF: "Failure, from a losing ball team right up to any governing (take your pick) administration, is what the enabling, spineless and politically correct standards we live in today, delivers!"

I would say it's a lack of standards that's the problem. Or to put it another way, the "village" isn't doing the job.

KC8BYF: "Now; All you crybaby dumb masses who wish to promote the "follow the leader", "save me from myself" and "I am a winner for the mere fact that I have participated" ways of the days; Stay with that and let me know how it works out for you in the end."

Well, let's see...

"Follow the leader" makes me think of the song "Waist Deep In The Big Muddy". Which is as appropriate today as ever (look it up if you don't know it).

"Save me from myself" makes me think of children. Kids need to be saved from themselves; that's why they don't have the same rights as adults. Adult rights mean adult responsibilities.

"I am a winner for the mere fact that I have participated" is an overstatement. It should be "I feel good/have accomplished something for having participated".

Not winning doesn't always make someone a loser.

There are some situations where everyone can "win", such as a class where everyone really learns the material and honestly passes a real test.

There are others where there can only be one winner, or a few, and that winner should be properly recognized.

I'm a runner, and have done two 26.2 mile marathons, plus many shorter races. I'm not fast. I've never "won" any races and I doubt I ever will. That fact doesn't bother me in the least; the winners deserve to win because they run a lot faster than I do.

Just completing a marathon is a major accomplishment because it takes a lot of training just to get to the point where you can cover 26.2 miles in one go. That some folks can do that distance at sub-5-minutes-per-mile pace is simply amazing to me. Neither accomplishment is insignificant but there's no way they're equal!

I love a good rant too.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by K6JPA on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

I get tired driving 26.2 miles...

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by K9CTB on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Geez, Robert ... you're pounding brass and he complains that one of your "dahs" was a bit too short?! As my dad sometimes says -- some guys would complain if you hanged them with a brand new rope!

They're out there I guess. I remember working 40 meter CW with a (then) brand new MFJ morse keyboard. A guy I contacted asked about my rig, and I told him about it all including the keyboard and he responds, "I don't work machines. 73" and that was it. He didn't seem to care that I was copying by ear. I'll never forget his callsign. Rude, but his preference. Everybody's so picky nowadays, I have a J-38 here that I'm afraid to use ... afraid I'll mess up. Man, that anti-keyboard guy scarred me for life! Waaaaaaa! I guess that's just more of the "everybody's an expert" thing. Can't we just enjoy the hobby?

73 de K9CTB

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by W4LGH on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

This sounds like a case of peoples skin being to thin!
Don't know when this became such a problem, but I suspect it all started with the "Political Correctness" movement, some time back.

Political Correctness is killing this country, its values and everything else. Every child is Special, which is also crap, as if all are Special, then NONE are special. If one tells a joke, the joke has to be on someone else. People need to buck up and live with it. You know when I came up there was a simple saying, thats stick and stones can break my bones, but words will NEVER hurt me. Simple child's saying, but still true today!!

People are NOT equal, and never will be! Some are smarter, some have more money, some are criminal, nothing equal about any of that. No one promised anyone a rose garden, and NO ONE is OWED anything!

My definition of "Political Correctness" is.. Our Politicians trying to convince us that you can pick up a dogs turd from the clean end! I really believe that this is why the world has gotten so much meaner over the past 20yrs. Everyone skin is so thin, they get their feeling hurt and get mad, and the other side of the coin, people get so frustrated trying to be political correct. Its a lose/lose situation every time.

I am certainly not picking on the author of this thread, as I think all in all he did the right thing, and he got his digs in as well. However if you send sloppy code, then the code freaks are gonna get ya.

There is NO GOOD way to tell someone they are WRONG, they are DUMB, or they don't have enough money. A SPADE will always be a SPADE, and until we ALL get back to that, its going to continue to head downhill.
Speaking of downhill...something else the government doesn't know...water will always run downhill, and seek its own level, and what goes UP WILL come down.

We can all only try to be as good as we can, someone will be smarter, faster, and have a lot more money.

73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by N0AH on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Oh please................get a backbone. Sounds like 160M.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by KE4ZHN on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Another rude practice is when a person joins a nightly round table group (uninvited, but allowed to join out of courtesy) thats comprised of some long time friends. Then he invites friends of his to join without asking the rest if its okay. On top of this, he insists on constantly changing the topic of conversation to only a particular subject he likes night after night for weeks at a time. The original group tolerates this only to avoid an argument, but several members become bored to tears with this nonsense. Its not exactly polite to barge in on a group and turn the agenda around to only your own. Especially since members of said original group enjoy a wide variety of topics instead of constant technical mumbo jumbo every night.

Any time another topic doesnt interest him or one of his friends they whine about it or move off frequency to go hide up the band and talk crap about the guys they claim to like. Then they come back and sneak in during a pause in the conversation and revert it back to the same tired old crap they beat to death for weeks before. The whole time claiming that the groups conversation is boring to them when they invited themselves in the first place! Some members of the group got so bored with the techie crap they simply turned off their rigs and before long its just the two electronic genius's bantering about the same project they've been talking about building for months and still havent stopped talking about it long enough to actually build it. If the main bigmouth built as much as he talked about building, he would have had at least ten of them done by now.

Even after being told in a polite way at first...and then a sometimes not so polite way that there are others here who may wish to talk about other things he continues to banter about the same tired subjects. Then said person invites other people aboard from a different group of known crap stirring morons to join him in his quest to take over a spot he had nothing to do with in the first place. Of course, if members of the original group had stuck together and worked as a team to run this idiot off, it wouldnt have happened...but. A real nice polite courteous guy this idiot is. If your reading this...you know who you are. I can assure you, it wont happen again. Lesson learned...a wide open door policy may not be a good idea. Its easier to understand why some groups are tight knit on 75. One idiot can ruin an otherwise good group round table by being inconsiderate and rude.

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by HAMDUDE on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

speaking of rude operating techniques...there is a group called the green frog's on 75 meter's that start up at around 5am, been there many year's, but around 6:30-7:00am, station's on 3945 every day will fire up there group knowing there has been an established group in session for at least an hour earlier,totally disregarding any coutesy at all. led by a retired illiterate { just look at some of his post's} cop from new jersey, n1flh, he laugh's and yuck's it up while his buddy, an inbred hillbilly moron named carnac who resides somewhere near jacksonville, tell's him how he enjoy's qrm'ing the already previously established group because we are here now, even though we are in the other groups passband, and we own this frequency. this is the same station i personally caught qrm'ing a christian net. the fact is there is no enforcement by the fcc anymore, and the green frog's are polite and suffer the rudeness, but i got a feeling when license renewal come's around for some 3945 regular's, there are gonnah be some sad. face's. so if you want to pass by 3945 sometime and listen, you'll see why 75 meter's get's a bad rep from other ham's, because 3945 is a shame to ALL of ham radio, drop by for a few minute's and experience the worst ham radio has to offer.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by W7ETA on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Funny, or at least an ironic story.
Thanks for posting it.

Many years ago, when I first got phone privileges, a ham was kind enough to tell me my mic gain was too high. He then offered to help me adjust it, by having me decrease it in increments while he reported how it sounded.

I offer that same help, letting fellow hams know if there is something wrong with their audio. Except, when it sounds as if they have a processor on, or when it sounds as if the are using some kind of EQ.

While I was a novice I discovered that I could easily recognize CQ, but I would sometimes stumble on Q? And, it didn't matter if C and Q were run together.

I find I hesitate less between C and Q than between any other two letters.
When I decide if I am going to respond to a CQ I listen to how distinct the spacing is between CQ and de and how clearly the call is sent.

If I were hear some one sending CX and the rest was good, I'd still answer the CX--each to his own.

Over all, I don't worry about society as a whole (hole?). I don't worry about what may have caused an imagined or real malaise in society. What I pay attention to is how I operate "On the Air".

73
Bob

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by N2EY on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

W4LGH writes: "There is NO GOOD way to tell someone they are WRONG, they are DUMB, or they don't have enough money."

I think there are better ways and worse ways. At least for some of that.

For example, suppose a ham says that he used to have trouble with high SWR on some bands with his old rig, which didn't have an ATU, but now his feedline has 1:1 SWR from the rig to the antenna because the ATU in his rig eliminates the reflected power.

Of course that's flat out wrong; all the ATU in the new rig does is match whatever impedance the feedline presents at the shack end to 50 ohms. The SWR on the feedline is the same as it was with the old rig.

I could say to him "YOU BIG STUPID DUMMY! Only an idiot would think that a tuner in the shack changes the feedline SWR!(yada yada yada)"

Or I could say: "You're mistaken about what's going on. The ATU doesn't change the feedline SWR at all. What really happens is (yada yada yada).

I think most people would rather be on the receiving end of the second message.

The other two situations can be handled similarly. Although who is "dumb" depends on the subject; almost everybody is smart about something and dumb about something else. And "enough money" depends on what it is someone wants to do.

I think some folks are very challenged by the idea that it's possible to have standards and yet be reasonably polite when upholding them.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail? Objectivity

by AI2IA on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

If a criticism is factual and can result in improvement, what does the source or the style matter?

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by K7UNZ on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

I think the sender of the card chose what he considered the less offensive method of letting you know.

Had he called you on-the-air and told you, a whole lotta folks could have heard it.

This way, only he, you, and the postman know.

73, Jim/k7unz

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail? Objectivity

by N2EY on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

AI2IA asks: "If a criticism is factual and can result in improvement, what does the source or the style matter?"

The source doesn't matter if the criticism is factual. Truth doesn't depend on who says it.

The style matters because everyone deserves a certain level of respect unless and until they prove themselves unworthy of it. We all make mistakes and have huge areas of ignorance; being called "stupid", "idiot" or other insulting names for an honest and innocent mistake isn't justified. Of course not all mistakes are innocent...

And it's basic human nature that most (not all) people respond better to honey than to vinegar, when there's a choice.

For example, say a rare DX station pops up working split. You set up to work him, but in the excitement you hit the "A=B" button on the rig and call him on his own frequency. To make matters worse you don't notice this and call him several times.

Wouldn't you want a fellow ham to let you know your mistake? I would!

Which would make you rather be on the receiving end of:

"you're on his frequency old man; he's working split and you're not"

or

"he's working split, you idiot! Stop being a stupid lid and get off his frequency!"

Which is better Amateur Radio operating practice?

I say the second.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by G0GQK on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

if there's anyone reading this who uses PSK31 you will be aware of the trash transmitting which occurs, sometimes in Europe its really bad. I've diplomatically mentioned a number of times to the culprits that they have a poor quality transmission and perhaps they could check the ALC etc. etc.

On almost every occasion the polite suggestion is ignored and the worst case I've ever seen, with QRM an inch wide ! the producer of this crap, despite being told by other operators, was still transmitting five hours later.

Now I have a message which states "Dear OM, your signal is BAD IIIIIIII, please adjust your TX and PSK signal before transmitting again. This sems to work better, its either the shock or the shame which does it ! A bit severe maybe, but if you saw the garbage I see every day you either do this, weep, or switch off !

G0GQK

If the truth be known -

by AI2IA on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

A note to N2EY and thin skinned folks holding similar views:

Of course, human nature being such that most of us think highly of ourselves, we prefer to be "let down easily" with polite criticism.

In spite of what I have just said, it is axiomatic that:

WE CAN LEARN MORE FROM OUR ENEMIES THAN WE CAN FROM OUR FRIENDS.

The bitter pill cures. The sweet pill gives you cavities. - Old Dental Folklore

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by N4ZAW on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

I am a terrible drummer. My mother taught music... She told me to put the instruments down and learn how to do something else, so I took up SWLing. That is when I heard the music of CW for the first time. I've been a fan for many years. I can copy 13WPM just fine,20 with pad -- but even with MFJ's help, I cannot thump-out anything more than 10WPM, and that is only with inherent flubs. I can barely type faster. It is only critisism if you took it that way. If the postcard was sent to me, i would suspect my best friends. They are cut-ups for the most part.:)
73 es keep on makin music, you lucky feller.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail? Objectivity

by K6CRC on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

A ham asked "If a criticism is factual and can result in improvement, what does the source or the style matter?"

Simple answer.

If you do not care about the outcome, then the answer is no, it does not matter.

If you wish to get something accomplished, then the answer is yes, it does matter.

The difference is the basis of social skills and the foundation of communications in a diverse society.

Out of steam with Self-esteem.

by AI2IA on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

I will re-phrase it, but it will do no good for those with little life experience and textbook minds:

WORDS TO THE WISE: MARK WHAT IS SAID, NOT WHO SAID IT OR HOW IT WAS SAID.

Coming to terms with facts (if indeed they be facts), harsh facts, is the best possible training for youthful and waivering minds.(and for old minds, too!)

Be greater than you seem to yourself and to your critics.

That said, now go a take a good cold shower.

Meditate upon these things.

RE: If the truth be known -

by PLANKEYE on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

AI2A RAY MULIN

A note to N2EY and thin skinned folks holding similar views:

Of course, human nature being such that most of us think highly of ourselves, we prefer to be "let down easily" with polite criticism.

In spite of what I have just said, it is axiomatic that:

WE CAN LEARN MORE FROM OUR ENEMIES THAN WE CAN FROM OUR FRIENDS.

The bitter pill cures. The sweet pill gives you cavities. - Old Dental Folklore

________________________________________________

PLANKEYE SPEAKS THIS:

Bitter pill!

Then shut your mouth until you can say something nice.

You are an angry old man. You are confrontational and hate filled.

You turn folks off Ray.

You want me to keep going?

Let's look at some of your recent post's.

Let's check them out?

HOW HARD IS IT TO JUST BE NICE?

You still owe me breakfast Ray Dog!! Your buying though!!

PLANKEYE

RE: If the truth be known -

by K8ZO on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but not signing the card is a matter of self protection while trying to help out both the sender and future receivers.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by PLANKEYE on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Robert, burn the letter and get back on the air.

That dude that sent the letter could have kissed my ass, as far as I'm concerned.

You already wasted enough time on this Site posting this.

We all are guilty of that though.

CW is awesome and nobody is perfect. RIGHT?

Get on the AIR and don't worry about it.

KEEP IT SIMPLE!!

PLANKEYE

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail? Objectivity

by K4RAF on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

"If a criticism is factual and can result in improvement, what does the source or the style matter?"

This is starkly amazing coming from a person who labels other people who do the very same simply as "bashers", "nay-sayers" & other degrading labels...

Wake up Ray, you are stuck running in circles...

Raf
wifidx@gmail.com

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail? Objectivity

by K4RAF on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

"If a criticism is factual and can result in improvement, what does the source or the style matter?"

This is starkly amazing coming from a person who labels other people who do the very same simply as "bashers", "nay-sayers" & other degrading labels...

Wake up Ray, you are stuck running in circles...

Raf
wifidx@gmail.com

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by WA8MEA on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

This is also my thinking because of one simple thing--that ham didn't sign the card, seemingly because he was too cowardly to.
------------------------------------------------------
Maybe it wasn't a cowardly act at all. Maybe the anonymous ham realizes we live in a world of road rage, office rage, campus rage, postal rage and even....HAM RAGE!!! Yes, I've heard hams threaten to assault or kill other hams or the family members of those hams....right over the air for everyone to witness!!!

This ham didn't know you. You might have been one of the many nut cases on amateur radio. Maybe he was afraid that you'd drive up and harass him.

I think he was cautious, not cowardly. He got his message across to you with the odds in his favor that you were an understanding chap....but was cautious enough to protect himself, his property and his family.

On the other hand, maybe the anonymous ham was a YL or an XYL?????

73, Bill - WA8MEA
http://HamRadioFun.com

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by N6AJR on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

AS long as it was not from an OO or the FCC, then take it with a grain of salt. if he( or she) was right, then fix your sending, if not then ignore it.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by PLANKEYE on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

This is also my thinking because of one simple thing--that ham didn't sign the card, seemingly because he was too cowardly to.
------------------------------------------------------
Maybe it wasn't a cowardly act at all. Maybe the anonymous ham realizes we live in a world of road rage, office rage, campus rage, postal rage and even....HAM RAGE!!! Yes, I've heard hams threaten to assault or kill other hams or the family members of those hams....right over the air for everyone to witness!!!

This ham didn't know you. You might have been one of the many nut cases on amateur radio. Maybe he was afraid that you'd drive up and harass him.

I think he was cautious, not cowardly. He got his message across to you with the odds in his favor that you were an understanding chap....but was cautious enough to protect himself, his property and his family.

On the other hand, maybe the anonymous ham was a YL or an XYL?????

73, Bill - WA8MEA
http://HamRadioFun.com

__________________________________________________

PLANKEYE:

Sorry Bill, I don't agree.

Your post has alot of imagination though.

Maybe this Maybe that.

Let's Maybe ourself to death!!

I would have burned it!!

Love you Ray!!

PLANKEYE

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by KE5EOT on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

One of our local hams is a great guy and a willing Elmer. Unfortunately, his "people skills" are somewhat lacking. I can see him sending exactly this type of card, but I do believe he'd sign it. He might not, it might slip his mind. This card wasn't a personal attack, there was no outward insult and no rambling diatribe against the operator. I'd chalk this one up to a lack of tact and take it as an honest attempt to help. Thanks for posting this, it reminds us all to take a little time to be kind.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by K6CRC on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

a ham said

"WORDS TO THE WISE: MARK WHAT IS SAID, NOT WHO SAID IT OR HOW IT WAS SAID."

That is a good one. I prefer another wise saying,

"Consider the source"

Of course, there are many others, including

"To each, his own"

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by PLANKEYE on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

KE5EOT:

One of our local hams is a great guy and a willing Elmer. Unfortunately, his "people skills" are somewhat lacking. I can see him sending exactly this type of card, but I do believe he'd sign it. He might not, it might slip his mind. This card wasn't a personal attack, there was no outward insult and no rambling diatribe against the operator. I'd chalk this one up to a lack of tact and take it as an honest attempt to help. Thanks for posting this, it reminds us all to take a little time to be kind.

_________________________________________________

PLANKEYE:

Chalk this one up as what?

Lack of tact?

Honest attempt to help?

Sweetie, you are living in dreamland!!

IT'S ABOUT RESPECT!!!

I WOULD HAVE BURNED THAT LETTER UP!!!

PLANKEYE

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by W5HTW on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

I think I would have written the note with a bit more diplomacy. That would mean I would sign it.

And I have done exactly that, though usually via emails. And I have signed those emails with my name and call sign. Why not? If they want to get nasty, they maybe ham radio isn't where they should be.

I have no problem advising people about raspy signals, unreadable CW, drifty rigs, etc. But I don't do it with what could be taken for a nasty note. Like "Hey, John, I had a bit of a problem copying some of your Morse. Maybe you need to adjust your key to make it more comfortable for you?" Or, "Bill, I heard a lot of AC hum on your signal last night. You might want to check it out."

In every case I have received either a "thank you" or nothing at all. No "ham rage." In a couple of cases, guys replied with "any suggestions as to what the problem could be?" (That was in relation to poor quality signals.) Before issuing a bad report, I listen to other signals, to be sure it isn't my radio! I make sure the NB is off, and DSP as well. And if possible I listen on another receiver, but I no longer have a second radio so I can't do that.

Back in the 60s I had, and yeah I'm bragging, a great fist on a straight key. Many people thought I was using a keyer. I could not get over 18 wpm, though, and still sound that good. Above 18 wpm, I began to make mistakes, and it was noticeable. A couple of folks told me so, but heck, I already knew it! So I quit straight key sending above 18 wpm! Simple.

I used a bug as well, and never had anyone tell me it was not readable. However, I never liked a bug at lower speeds, below about 20 wpm. Get choppy. Since I was in HF radio as a profession, a career, I was required to use a straight key at work. They wouldn't let anyone use a bug. But they would let us use an electronic keyer, if we brought our own. And I did.

But no matter what, I made mistakes. It's human nature. And I got told about them! But always with diplomacy, thankfully.

Now, many years older, I no longer can work a straight key worth a darn. I'd be afraid to even look at a bug! Stiff bones, arthritis, whatever excuse I want to use, those high speed things are out of my range anymore. I'm content to send 20-25 wpm with a keyer, and 10-15 wpm with a straight key. And I admit it sure isn't as smooth today on that J38 as it was 'back then.'

Things happen. I suppose I would have been upset to get the card, as it certainly insinuates the guy is a LID and a lousy CW operator. If I got such a card, I may would be angry but I bet I'd be working on improving my Morse, too.

I remember when I went into radio broadcasting as an announcer. I had an accent. And I got a LOT of good natured kidding, and a bit of not so good natured kidding, about it. I didn't like it. But I began taping my self every time I opened the microphone, then taking the tapes home and listening to my voice. I became that generic radio voice, but it took WORK! A LOT of work, for two years.

That is how this fellow should view the card. It calls attention to a problem, though it does so without diplomacy. Fix the problem. That's the key. Fix the problem.

73
ed

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by KD5SFK on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

"Sorry folks, you can sit in your cave and read Ayn Rand all day, but if you need to interact, motivate, or even live with anyone else in our society, 'NICE' is as important as sending a clear message."

By far the best comment I have ever read on eHam!

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by N9AVY on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

A member of a group I belong to had a bad experience recently. He heard a fellow calling CQ DX and the signal had problems; so, he called the fellow and was promptly told that "CQ DX" did NOT mean "stateside" and that he should get lost ! So much for trying to be helpful. This is probably why an anonymous card was sent.

My experiences as a Novice 31 years ago were positive. There were many contacts with old timers and other interesting people. Yes, my fist was not very good at first, but it did improve with practice. That's when I noticed that many Novices had trouble with my "HQQ" suffix and sent back "SYY".. was it my fist ? Nope, most General and higher licensees came back with "HQQ" on first call. If someone had told me my fist was sloppy, I would have taped my Q's and corrected as needed.

As an Advanced I got my first and only OO Notice that I was out of band on 20m. Was I offended ? Hell no ! I just made an extra effort to stay within my subband. The OO was on my side by telling me of MY error; glad he heard me instead of FCC.

Somewhere in FCC Part 97, there is something about the Amateur Service being self-policing. I see that as helping our brother hams over the air, by post card or whatever works. No need to be insulting or abusive, just the facts stated simply and politely.

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by N0AH on September 20, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

No one outside JA could really give a horses ass about a cw CQ from the United States............can we get over ourselves and move on now- Just send your call in a pile up, enclose your $$$, make sure it counts for a few contest points, and you have served your purpose in ham radio with calling CQ. Reality bites but it is the truth.

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by VA3DXV on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

"It may irritate the heck out of me to hear CX CX CX and I refuse to answer such bad code."

"GOOD OPS WON'T ANSWER LIDS/POOR CW"

Hmm, gee.. I can't imagine why this mode is dying.

Lighten up Francis.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by N7YA on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

The mode is not dying, but a lot of these stressed out hams are in danger of this, however.

I hear the most hate and discontent on fone, but its also rare. I simply dont spend a lot of time on frequencies with a lot of agression and circular anger...not because of any thin-skin crap, but because it accomplishes nothing...i would rather be making friends and chasing new ones.

I will actually agree with the masked man Plankeye...take that letter for what it is, work on your sending if it pleases you, but i wouldnt worry about it too much...get on the air and know that you will never have to worry about making THAT particular ham happy.

I have been operating CW for decades, i really enjoy it and in the many thousands of contacts i have had, i have worked some really tough copy fists...but i pride myself on my operating and listening skill, i will make it work. I wont take the lazy route by not trying, i certainly would never waste so much time as to send a letter to criticize another hams sending habits, thats just asking to be embarrassed...suppose that ham is an old vet who has no arms and is sending with his foot (ive heard this before), suppose he suffered a debilitating stroke and has very limited motor skills but is determined to enjoy the hobby no matter what, suppose the op has MS or something similar but really wants to get on the air...i will make it work because the joy of making the qso far outranks the perfection of the other ops sending. If i can get the basic info, who the hell am i to tell him that nobody will work him, THAT is not being helpful, its not the poor fisted ham being thin skinned...thats just rude.

I was in a pileup the other day, the op was a master DXer i knew from other qso's. He was running the pile nicely, he pulled one guy out and after giving his report, he said "by the way OM, you have some really rough audio, sounds like really bad AC on it, i just thought you should know so you can get that fixed before it gets worse, good luck and thanks for the contact, qrz?"...is that so difficult? did he need to "knock this guy around" to make the world a more responsible place? Nope, he politely said what needed to be said and they moved on...not everything is so black and white, not everyone is a 5 year old that needs to be spanked. Being coolheaded when giving advice, or at least thinking of someone other than your damn self gets more things done, in my opinion. And i know when its time to crank up the heat on someone...calling CX is not one of those times, im not an idiot, i know he's sending CQ. A gentle reminder would do nicely, but this contradicts many guys intolerance and high blood pressure...ham radio could use less of these things.

Log the card in the circular file and get back to having a good time on the air, you really didnt need to post anything here, it just gives the internet warriors another avenue for infighting.

73...Adam, N7YA

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by W8JII on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

"...suppose that ham is an old vet who has no arms and is sending with his foot (ive heard this before), suppose he suffered a debilitating stroke and has very limited motor skills but is determined to enjoy the hobby no matter what, suppose the op has MS or something similar but really wants to get on the air...i will make it work because the joy of making the qso far outranks the perfection of the other ops sending. If i can get the basic info, who the hell am i to tell him that nobody will work him, THAT is not being helpful, its not the poor fisted ham being thin skinned...thats just rude."---------------------

Excellent point!! Over the years I've contacted many Hams with afflictions that affected their sending skill. I've noticed that my arthritis is affecting my own CW. Thank goodness most Hams have your attitude and patience. 73, Ron

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by K6YE on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Robert,

It looks like your dislike came back to haunt you. Everybody makes mistakes and it is great to get nice corrections.

It is the same with speech processors. A lot of people have them turned up so high that one can hear them passing gas, picking navel lint, etc. Some of them think that they sound excellent because they have "broadcast audio." No matter how nice someone informs them on how terrible the audio sounds, they are offended.

I would agree that tact goes a long way. Enjoy the hobby.

Semper Fi,

Tommy - K6YE
DX IS

RE: If the truth be known -

by K1CJS on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

"Don't know if this has been mentioned, but not signing the card is a matter of self protection while trying to help out both the sender and future receivers."

Self protection from what? Someone who you're helping. Acceptible? Not really. I've seen where people here on e-Ham say they won't use their ID, callsign, whatever--because they're afraid of e-mail attacks. I've been confrontational and argumentative sometimes and have never, EVER recieved e-mails threatening me--or even simply just to irritate me. And I've ALWAYS used my callsign in my writings.

Anyone who would try would find out there is an answer to e-mail spam--and I wouldn't hesitate to use it.

Not signing any sort of communication is just plain rude--no matter what it is. You want to be rude--go ahead. Just don't expect me to answer you.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by K7AAT on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

KA5JRX asked, "By the way, what in the heck was meant by the 'LIDS/CW'? "

I suspect that you mis'read the apostrophe as a slant bar. ( Or the sender mis-wrote the apostrophe ).

Ed K7AAT

RE: If the truth be known -

by AB7E on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

K1CJS: "Self protection from what? Someone who you're helping. Acceptible? Not really. I've seen where people here on e-Ham say they won't use their ID, callsign, whatever--because they're afraid of e-mail attacks. I've been confrontational and argumentative sometimes and have never, EVER recieved e-mails threatening me--or even simply just to irritate me. And I've ALWAYS used my callsign in my writings. "

At the risk of triggering another attack from the retard that targeted me, I have to tell you that WA8MEA was correct. I've posted a few argumentative messages myself here on eHam, and in just a couple of months ago someone who wanted to retaliate signed me up for a bunch of junk postal mail and online promotions that resulted in 14 different phone calls from companies who thought I had requested it. A name other than my own was used, but it was always the same name and all of my other contact information was accurate. I presume that the false name was used in order to skirt identify theft laws. I was able to get enough information from some of those callers to have a pretty good idea who the gutless culprit was, and if I am correct it was indeed one of the participants in eHam forums.

It won't keep me from using my real name and callsign, but doing so does certainly carry some risk.

Dave AB7E

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by AB4KX on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

This reminds me of a QSO I had over 20 years ago. One fine afternoon I put out a brisk CQ at about 30 wpm using my trusty Bencher and a keyer.
A ham answered me with much slower and nearly unintelligible CW. I was very tempted to quip 'QLF' but for some reason I hesitated and simply responded with: Your call de My call -- TNX FER CALL UR RST .....etc etc. Never was I more thankful for what I now consider to be divinely inspired restraint. The ham on the other end was, as it turned out, a quadriplegic and was using his shoulder muscles to bounce an uncontrollable hand on a straight key! I'm still thankful to this day that I gave the benefit of the doubt.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by 5R8GQ on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

We need others to help us keep or signals clean
and our procedures proper. Correcting someone is not rude (if done properly), it is helpful.

When I first got on PSK31 from Madagascar, it was a brand new mode for me. There were only about 20-25
active ops from 5R8 at that time, and none on PSK.
The pileups were tremendous. I had over 150 QSOs in the log when a UK station came back with "Your IMD is dreadful and your signal is very,very wide".
So I just told everyone to stand by (like that really worked!) and had this guy walk me through tweaking
my rig's mic gain, computer Sound Card audio sliders,
rig power out control, etc, until my signal was perfect. I thanked him profusely afterward.

I suppose that the previous 150 ops I had QSO with
also saw my miserable signal, but were more interested in getting 5R8 in the log than helping their fellow ham.

Criticism without suggestion is useless. If this guy had said "Your signal sucks, OM", I would have no idea what he was talking about and would have continued to send out a sucky signal.....
Kenneth

I liked this article until the end

by KASSY on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Sorry OM, but your last paragraph showed that he DID get under your skin. Becoming an armchair psychologist, accusing someone of personality problems, shows just how much it is important to you to retaliate.

It's good to focus on having a good fist. But "good" means understandable and having a personality. If a fist sounds like machine-sent CW, then it's not a "good fist" in my newbie opinion. My granddad told stories of the commercial radiotelegraph days when you could tell who was operating by their fist. I think that's really important, just like you can tell who's playing the violin solo by their style.

So, my advice to you - next time you want to claim someone "did not get under your skin", make sure your behavior matches your claim.

- k

RE: I liked this article until the end

by AB7E on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Kassy: "If a fist sounds like machine-sent CW, then it's not a "good fist" in my newbie opinion. My granddad told stories of the commercial radiotelegraph days when you could tell who was operating by their fist. I think that's really important, just like you can tell who's playing the violin solo by their style. "

Sorry, but I sure wish that impression had passed by the wayside long ago. It may be fine to listen to badly timed CW if you're chatting with the same folks regularly and are familiar with the swing, but it's tiring, even irritating, to have to copy it in a fresh QSO. It's even worse when conditions are marginal and you need to rely on timing to fill in the blanks between QRN bursts. Some of the intentionally misadjusted keyers I hear out there are just plain awful. Damn few of the guys operating the FOC events, or breaking DX pileups, or racking up big contest scores deviate very far from the standard keying ratios. I often hear good signals with bad swings futilely calling in a pileup, though, until they finally give up without a contact.

73,
Dave AB7E

RE: I liked this article until the end

by K7AAT on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

I sure agree with AB7E. If a "fist" sounds like machine code, then it is perfect. Trying to "personalize" your cw sending is no different than trying to speak English with an accent. A Southern Drawl may be pleasant to some, but its hell for foreigners to understand, at the least.

Ed K7AAT

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by KD6HUC on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Well I think the idea was great, but the execution was a little sloppy. probably not unlike the sloppy code that got the ball rolling in the first place. Personally I want to know anytime something is wrong, either technically or operationally. Perhaps the un-named ham did not want to bring up the issue in such a public way on the air. Calling somebody a LID on or off the air is a bit much when it's something totally innocent, but at least the card sender had the heart to alert you about the way many others see things...

RE: I liked this article until the end

by NB3O on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

"Trying to "personalize" your cw sending is no different than trying to speak English with an accent."
"it's tiring, even irritating, to have to copy it"

I totally agree and have been on the receiving end of similar comments significantly more discourteous than the author received.

However, being chastised for a loose fist is similar to being called out in public by a stranger for having your zipper down. Despite the embarrassment, you can use the information constructively to fix the problem and inconspicuously move on.
Then there are others who will take offense and leave it open to "personalize" their appearance. Not sure if these guys wind up with many QSOs.

RE: I liked this article until the end

by WB2WIK on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

>I liked this article until the end Reply
by KASSY on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Sorry OM, but your last paragraph showed that he DID get under your skin. Becoming an armchair psychologist, accusing someone of personality problems, shows just how much it is important to you to retaliate.

It's good to focus on having a good fist. But "good" means understandable and having a personality. If a fist sounds like machine-sent CW, then it's not a "good fist" in my newbie opinion.<

::That's a really unqualified opinion. I strive to make my hand-sent (with paddle and keyer) CW sound exactly like a machine, that's the whole idea. Many have replied to me with "nice sounding computer CW -- do you have a key also?" and they don't realize I *am* using a key, and the objective has been met.

WB2WIK/6

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail? Why dwell on it?

by AI2IA on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

In the beginning the purpose of Morse Code was to send a message from A to B, and to get a response back from B to A.

Now the purpose has progressed to analyse everyone's fist and then nit pick?

Oh! Some send with a sloppy fist! Oh! Some use a key board! Whoppy doo! Remember, this is amateur radio!

If you can improve your transmission, fine. Take the criticism. If you deem it nit picking, then forget it. It's anonymous, isn't it? Read it. Stow it. Make a decision. Get back on the air.

If you can't enjoy amateur radio, then take up stamp collecting.

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by K7FD on September 21, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Heck I've been calling CX for years. Only seem to work guys in Uruguay...

73 K7FD

RE: I liked this article until the end

by KASSY on September 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

WB2WIK wrote:

::That's a really unqualified opinion.::

Negative. It is my view. I am qualified to state it.

::I strive to make my hand-sent (with paddle and keyer) CW sound exactly like a machine, that's the whole idea.::

Good for you. You are the CW equivalent of a cover band, playing the top 40 hits exactly as the original famous band did them. If that's what you like then I'm happy for you.

::Many have replied to me with "nice sounding computer CW -- do you have a key also?" and they don't realize I *am* using a key, and the objective has been met.::

And so have I gotten the same reply. But I am more pleased when someone on the other end recognizes it's me before I send my callsign.

"Machine sent" is not, by definition, an engineering description of exact sending. Your keyer may make dashes 3X the length of dots, but your rig foreshortens them all. The final result is never mathematically perfect.

It's like having an accent. Any accent will be difficult for some to interpret. "Radio English" as practiced in the US is unintelligible to the population of India, because they learn British English. But it is English, and with modest exposure, anybody "gets it". I have been told that my "fist" is easier to understand than machine-sent.

The most common infraction, after all, is not putting proper word spaces between words - it's almost impossible to find someone on the air who does NOT make that mistake. So, if you don't commit that one, then you're miles ahead of most.

Interestingly, despite the OP's claim, I have never heard "CX" instead of "CQ". But that's just me. I've only had about 2200 CW QSOs in my few years on the air.

- k

RE: I liked this article until the end

by NI0C on September 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Interesting topic and good discussion, especially by WB2WIK and KASSY.

KASSY wrote:
"But I am more pleased when someone on the other end recognizes it's me before I send my callsign."

Although I pride myself on being able to recognize the sending and keying characteristics of others (indeed I've nabbed some good DX that way), like Steve, I try to strive for machine sent accuracy. I still like to listen to W1AW code practice and any QRQ keyboard ops to help "calibrate" my ears and sending.

" "Machine sent" is not, by definition, an engineering description of exact sending. Your keyer may make dashes 3X the length of dots, but your rig foreshortens them all. The final result is never mathematically perfect."

While it is true that sending is shaped by the timing and keying characteristics of the transmitter, the latest electronic keyer technology (e.g., K1EL) provides compensation schemes to allow one to minimize these effects.

"It's like having an accent. Any accent will be difficult for some to interpret."

This is especially true at the limits of one's copying speed. It's a good reason to drop the accent, or at least not to consciously develop one.

"The most common infraction, after all, is not putting proper word spaces between words - it's almost impossible to find someone on the air who does NOT make that mistake. So, if you don't commit that one, then you're miles ahead of most."

Amen to that!

"Interestingly, despite the OP's claim, I have never heard "CX" instead of "CQ"."

I have, although "KEMA" is much more common!

73,
Chuck NI0C

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by KC9KHG on September 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

To KA5JRX:
Hello,
I heard you calling CX one day myself.I am a fairly new CW OP and wasn't sure why it was CX instead of CQ so I didn't answer.I asked a few OM in my area and was told maybe the OP (you) had made a mistake or it was a contest of some kind.Nobody said "lid".
For the record,you had a great signal into N.E. Illinois.
Thanks for posting and clearing this up for this new guy and I hope to catch you on the air.
73
Randy

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by KENNETH on September 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Robert D. Junk (KA5JRX)... don't assume your card in the mail is correct. They could be mistaken using computer CW decoding which is not 100 percent accurate. Especially with QRM.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by WA7NCL on September 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

I was RUDE mail. The snail mail version of a troll.

The fellow that sent it may have been right but he knew he was being rude because he didn't identify himself.

I can't imagine if I would have gotten a note like this when I was a 16yr old Novice, what I would have thought of ham radio.

I've heard some pretty bad code sometimes, but many times it comes from some very old hams with physical problems (strokes etc.). I just try to bear with them since I am impressed with their determination to stay on the air.

I can't say I'm surprised by some of the responses from many old line hams who think this sort of thing is constructive and look fondly back on some blunt comment from an OT back in their formative days. It doesn't seem like a good way to encourage good behavior by engaging bad.

Nobody disputes that straight, and possibly blunt comments might be needed when confronting willful misbehavior or violations of law. But the example in this article is none of those things.

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by NK2U on September 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

When I was first licensed as a novice, I ran into an OM who heard my CW timing/spacing was off and did not call me on it; however, he did repeat my transmissions back with the bad spacing my numbers and letter. At first I thought he was mangling my callsign When I heard the "2" sent as "I O," But I quickly realized that he was hearing bad code from me and that it needed tightning up. It was subtil but effective.

de NK2U

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by KC0UZA on September 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

I think the poster took the input in good spirit and made lemonade out of a leamon. The tone of the input was questionable although perhaps the intent may have been positive. Who knows? However, the information provided was somewhat troubling in that he stated good operators won't answer poor CW. We can only practice so much ouselves and when I get advice from elmers they say to get on the air, thats the only way you'll get better. Well I won't get any better if no one will answer my poor code, and I certainly won't get any better if they don't provide feedback that I can use to improve. Only... if you're a jerk about it, I (and most people) will have a harder time accepting the feedback.

Of course, feedback is needed and some have a difficult time accepting "improvement opportunities", e.g. criticism. This especially includes experienced ops who may have gotten into bad habits. However, there are many ways of providing feedback. I'm not a fan of political correctness but there is a difference between honest, helpful criticism and having to put up with comments that are snotty and mean spirited even if they are technically true.

73

Mike

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by VE6KLJ on September 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

I think in a way, it was help mail but came on a little strong.

In 2005, I helped a friend move but was working on setting up APRS in my rural city. I had set digipeat to every 10-15 seconds for testing. Reason? I was the only one using the system and I needed to generate traffic!

Well.. One fateful weekend I got in my car and drove 750kms blasting packets all the way. In my tinytrack's cq signature thing was my email address.

Upon return I got a very eloquent email regarding how the really heard me coming and going. :) I expressed my horror at forgetting to re-tune the settings and made a note to be MUCH more careful in the future. What ended up happening was a bit of an exchange in ideas and information and we were all better off for it. I unintentionally mapps the APRS system in those 750kms, and everyone was actually kind of amazed... Places that "didn't" have coverage did, etc.

Had the email been a scolding I'd probably have shut my aprs setup off and not turned it back on ;)

RE: If the truth be known -

by K1CJS on September 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

"It won't keep me from using my real name and callsign, but doing so does certainly carry some risk."

Well, Dave, Everything these days carry some risk--including any post here on this board. Consider this: If you fully agreed with somebody and posted about it along with your reasons, anybody who disagreed with the original poster may also target you.

I didn't say I've never gotten a responce--I have gotten those a few times, some positive and some negative. I've never been subject to the type harassment you received, though.

I look at it this way: If you're man enough to make a statement and do it out loud, you should be man enough to accept responcibility for it, and sign your name to it.

Oh--and before you ladies start, I know the I should have said 'person' to be politically correct, but I'm tired of being politically correct. If the saying is old, I'm going to say it that way.

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by K1CJS on September 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

You know, I'm wondering how much people will complain about improper code sending or will refuse to answer a sloppy sender these days because of 'political correctness'. Just a thought.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by K1DA on September 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

I don't know what planet you're on JI but HERE in the USA, we get to tell the President what we think every four (4) years and Congress every two (2). If you are on the wrong side of that, well too bleeping bad.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by KA5JRX on September 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Randy (KC9KHG) I apprciate your comment. I think I may be sending bad code when trying to chase some DX contacts. I probably try to go too fast for my ability. I have arthritis in my hands now due to old injuries and I need to just get used to it. Copying speed is still up there as fast as I can write it down but the ole straight key is getting a little shakey. Hopefully the next time you hear me I will be sending CQ and not CX. 73's & thanks.

RE: If the truth be known -

by KE7CDV on September 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Someone who's unwilling to take the "risk" of retaliation by signing their name/call sign to a critique should take a long, hard look at their methodology: Are you really worried that there's the one lunatic in a million out there who's going to track you down and harm you for no good reason because of your critique, or do you know darned well that the way you're stating your critique is hurtful and demeaning and hence will invariably make the recipient angry at you?

In the vast majority of cases, I'd reckon it's the later -- including in the case shown here.

I'm absolutely all for people pointing out errors in operation, stated facts, etc. -- this certainly is far better than being ignored. However, it can and should be done so in a polite manner -- what further useful purpose is accomplished by being rude?

No one's perfect, certainly, and I couldn't begin to lay claim to always practicing what I preach here, but it is an ideal to strive for.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by KL7IPV on September 22, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Good opening subject and a good answer, Tom. I have done the very thing you object to, Tom. Maybe I was wrong but I learned that if I wanted to join a group, I first announced that I was listening. If they wanted me to join they could then invite me. If they did not, then I wasn't invited. But letting them know I was listening doesn't seem wrong to me. Of course I listened before I announced to be sure the topic is not one that should be limited to them. They may feel otherwise and can ignore me if they want. In the "old days" that was how you got into round tables or got them started. And I do not get offended if someone corrects me. I think I have learned a lot that way too.
73,
Frank

RE: If the truth be known -

by AB7E on September 23, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

KE7CDV,

Do a search on my callsign here on eHam and I think you'll find that the great majority of my argumentative posts show up in one of these two cases:

1. Somebody makes a blatantly misleading technical comment (or I think they do ... I've sometimes been wrong) and I jump on their case. My reply to the E-H article is an example.

2. Somebody makes a disparaging generalization or one that is designed to diminish someone else's enjoyment of the hobby and I feel the need to respond.

I'm pretty sure that most of my abrasive comments are associated with case #2, and the risk that I acknowledge comes not so much from what I say or how I say it, but from the nature of the person I realize I'm saying it to. If I told you who I'm pretty sure spammed me with all the junk phone calls, you'd know what I mean.

That being said, I don't always get it right and have had my butt rightfully handed to me on a platter by rebuttal more than once. Better that than tiptoeing around every controversial topic, though ... at least in my mind.

73,
Dave AB7E

RE: If the truth be known -

by KE7CDV on September 23, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

I understand where you're coming from Dave. Your rants do at least include your name/callsign... :-)

Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by KB8LZG on September 24, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

Hope everone is doing well today.

My name is Terry and my call is KB8LZG

Unless I'm in a structured net environment or there is a emergency coms on the freq.

If you hear me rag chewing on the radio please feel free to give your call and at least say Hello. I enjoy radio and hope all of you do too. I try not to take the hobby to seriously and have as much fun as possible.
I don't know you are there unlike in person because I can't see you tune in, so let me know you are around and hopefully you can have a good qso. The places I hang around are populated with the same kina ops and they would like to say hello to you too.
Thanks
tp

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by RADIO123US on September 24, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

K1CJS said "You know, I'm wondering how much people will complain about improper code sending or will refuse to answer a sloppy sender these days because of 'political correctness'. Just a thought. "

Chris, why don't you actually LEARN the code and find out ? It's hard to take your comments seriously when you've spent most of your time on this site bashing those of us that actually know CW and enjoy using it.

RE: Was it Help Mail or Hate Mail?

by KPAX2 on October 9, 2008 Mail this to a friend!

NO HATE - MAYBE HELP IF YOU ACCEPT IT.

The Guys a Republican no doubt, Most are all of them are trouble-makers.

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