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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

Watt's New? Living with PEP

from Steve Katz, WB2WIK on October 28, 2008
View comments about this article!

"Editor's Note: Due to the popularity of some of eHam's older articles, many of which you may not have read, the eHam.net team has decided to rerun some of the best articles that we have received since eHam's inception. These articles will be reprinted to add to the quality of eHam's content and in a show of appreciation to the authors of these articles."

Watts New? The Power Struggle, and Living with PEP.

Steve Katz, WB2WIK/6

I see a lot of postings, and hear comments on the air, too, about power output and “talking the rig up” to its rated power. Maybe a short article is worth a write.

Old Days vs. New Days

In days of old when men were men, rigs were most all rated for transmitter input power, not any particular output power. There was one technical reason for this, and many marketing reasons. The technical reason was that here in the States (and perhaps in other countries, too), our regulations stipulated only a maximum DC input power to the final amplifier stage as our legal power limit. Reason for that was that few hams owned Wattmeters, or any good ones that could be trusted, but most anyone could measure DC Input Power, since that's just a calculation of final amplifier voltage times current.

The Part 97 Legal power limit for licensees above the Novice level was 1000 Watts DC input power. If your final amplifier was 50% efficient, as most probably were, that would yield about 500 W output power. However, there was no distinction between modes: We could run 1 kW DC input on CW (probably 500W output), or on AM, which, with 100% modulation, would yield about 4000 Watts PEP input power, and maybe 2000W PEP output power (!). Then, SSB came about to muddy up the works. SSB had no carrier power to measure, so if you keyed your transmitter and didn't speak, you might be running a few hundred Watts DC Input power (the idling power drawn by the PA to remain linear) and absolutely no output at all!

So, it was deemed by the Powers That Be that a fair amount of SSB power should be 2000 Watts PEP, but still “measured” by DC input power. That's a tall order, and almost nobody could do this. But it was an interesting solution, and everyone who made a “1 kW DC Input Power” amplifier or transmitter now automatically rated it for “2000 Watts PEP input power,” without any way to actually measure that.

Since linear amplifiers are typically about 50% efficient, or most were in those days, hams pretty much figured if we measured PEP output power using an oscilloscope and a dummy load, we should shoot for 1kW PEP output, and we'd probably be right in there, using the maximum power allowed by law. By estimation!

If you own a transmitter or amplifier from the mid-1970's or earlier, it will be rated for DC Input Power, and not actual RF output power, because that's the way it was, at least until 1978.

The “marketing” advantage of this rating method is that manufacturers could claim almost anything. A pair of 6KD6 TV sweep tubes, normally used in pulse service at about 30W or so in a TV set, could now magically run “300 Watts PEP” (input power) in SSB service. Or, almost anything anyone wanted to claim, since measuring PEP input power is something that almost nobody could possibly do.

That led to all sorts of crazy claims in rigs of the late 1960's and early 1970's, as the Japanese manufacturers were just beginning to import rigs to the U.S. to compete with the well-established American rigs, and everyone had to outdo each other. Collins Radio, with their KWM-2 and 32S-series of transceivers and transmitters, did not get caught up in the marketing balogna and continued to rate their transmitters, using dual 6146 power amplifier tubes, at 160W PEP input power, a conservative and very realistic rating. To their credit, Heath Company, with their SB-100, SB-101, SB-400 and SB-401 families, did likewise.

You Can't Hear Input Power

Let's face it, it doesn't matter what your DC input power is, nobody can hear it. It's the Watts that make it to the antenna that count. I think it was in 1978 that the FCC changed the power limit from 1000W DC input power to 1500W PEP output power, and that re-defined what we're really doing. It took a while for hams to conjure that 1500W PEP (output) is also 1500W carrier output power when working CW, RTTY and FM. But 1500W PEP output on AM (standard full-carrier, old-fashioned double sideband AM) was only 375W carrier power for a 100% modulated signal. Hmph! This is the only mode where the “higher power level limit” actually decreased the amount of useful power hams could use.

(This discussion pertains to American hams at this point. I realize legal limit power levels, restrictions, license classes and other things vary country to country.)

It's the PEP, Boys

Most hams don't own accurate PEP measuring instruments. Some do. But the ones that don't are the ones who are always trying to “ahhhhh” or “whistle” up their output power. You can tell. Anytime you tune across someone “helllllooo”ing or “ahhhhhh”ing, or whistling into their microphones, there's a good chance that someone is watching his average-indicating Wattmeter and trying to figure out why his peak output power isn't anything close to what the book said it should be.

Cut it out, guys, it's silly.

Unless you have a true peak reading Wattmeter (a PEP meter), which is designed to display PEP power and requires an external source of power to operate, you can't evaluate how much power you're really running when using SSB. One way to have a pretty good guess is to switch your transmitter to the CW mode, close the key, and transmit. Look at the power indicated. Then, switch to SSB and forget about the Wattmeter reading. Your output power on voice peaks should be just about exactly whatever the “CW” power indicated. The meter won't show this.

An oscilloscope will show it, and was the primary output measuring instrument for years after the SSB mode became popular. If you tune up on CW and your scope shows your forward power to be “ten cm,” or whatever - and then switch to SSB and your voice peaks hit the same amplitude (10 cm), your SSB peak envelope power and CW carrier power are the same. It's easy to do, easy to watch, easy to learn. But unless you're using a scope, or a real PEP instrument, you can't tell anything about PEP output power.

The cheapest PEP HF meter on the market that I can think of offhand is the Autek WM-1A, at about $150. It's a bargain*, and reasonably good through the HF spectrum. But it does require a DC power source, and you have to add that, yourself. I also have a couple of Bird model 43P meters, which are the standard 43 “Thruline,” with a peak reading circuit added. That circuit is powered by two 9V batteries, or an external power supply, and adds about $100 in cost to the model 43 - so by the time you have the meter, the PEP adapter, and one plug-in detector element, you're up there in the range of $500 to make your first measurement. Still, not a bad investment.

The little desktop meters that have an AVG/PEAK switch, and do not use a power supply to power them, have no useful peak reading functionality.

But isn't it average power that the guy on the other end hears? Umm, no, not really. SSB is a peak mode, for both transmission and reception. Here's a CW analogy:

If you tune in a CW station transmitting at 20 words per minute, and he's 599, that's good, right? Now, that same station can space his sending differently, so he pauses several seconds between every single element sent. His average power, averaged over a time period (let's say one minute) is now about 10% of what it was before, but his peak power is the same. Is he weaker now, or still 599?

In the example given above, if you measured average vs. peak power, the difference would be amazing. A very accurate way to measure average power is by dissipating it in a load and measuring thermal rise in that load, as all Thermistor or Bolometer type power measuring instruments do. In fact, it's the most accurate method of all, because this technique is not related to waveform or distortion - the load dissipates all power applied, regardless of waveform, and generates heat, which is measured by the instrument. Precisely.

In our example above, the average power of a 1500W output transmitter might be 150W, because the transmitter duty cycle was only 10%. If we return to the normal method of sending code, the duty cycle would be about 50% (average power 750W). That's a five-to-one difference in average power, and the Thermistor-mount, lab-grade, 100% accurate power meter would indicate that astounding difference. But the received signal at the other end of the path would remain exactly the same. If you're S9 with a 50% duty cycle, you'll still be S9 with a 10% duty cycle. Thus, signal reception is not predicated on average power, but rather on peak power.

Keep It Clean

So, PEP is really all that counts for working SSB.

But not entirely! The other thing that counts is signal fullness and fidelity, often described as “punch” and modulation clarity or crispness. Best clarity is rarely achieved with “high fidelity” modulation. It is most always accomplished with modulation quality that is equivalent to how your voice really sounds if it were unaltered by the electronic circuitry of your transmitter and the other station's receiver.

“Punch,” or fullness, is something reasonably easy to achieve in modern SSB transmitters having Automatic Level Control circuits, which they all do. ALC is a control loop, with usually one or more adjustable elements and other preset ones, that allows one to maximize transmitter output power without creating signal distortion, and if you use your ALC within its design limits, you can have all the punch and fullness of a broadcast station, without the undesired side effects of booming bass or piercing treble.

Transmitters and transceivers vary by design, but I've always found the best way to adjust ALC is to follow the manufacturer's recommendations, and then listen to myself with a separate receiver (using tight-fitting headphones to prevent acoustic feedback) and adjust for the sound I like best. The controls that most closely guide how the ALC loop responds, and how you sound on the air, are your mike gain and speech processing controls. Those usually interact to some degree. Another component that guides the way you sound on the air is your microphone, and of course anything you do externally to your transmitter to alter it. Monitoring, and headphones, help a lot. And believe what people tell you when they provide on-the-air reports. If you get a few complaints of crappy audio, believe them.

If you're one of the Newbies (or even a not-so-Newbie) who likes to watch your Wattmeter as you operate SSB, stop that. Lousy habit, and for the tenth time, the meter reading doesn't mean anything unless you have a real, honest PEP meter. “Talking up” your transmitter to increase the power indicated on the meter results in lousy sounding audio that will not help you get through any better.

ALC Your AMP

And do it PDQ. Amplifiers which have an ALC output that is compatible with the ALC input of your transmitter work best when that loop is connected, and everything's adjusted properly. It makes a lot of difference, usually.

Watt's to Gain?

If you want to reduce output power of your transmitter and the rig doesn't have adjustable output power when using the SSB mode (most transmitters and transceivers of earlier vintage did not), don't simply turn down your mike gain and assume you've done it. This is a really bad idea, for many reasons.

First, although the average power displayed on a Wattmeter will indeed indicate lower output power when you turn the mike gain down, in fact the PEP output may be the same as it was: Remember, your Wattmeter isn't responding to PEP unless it's a specialized PEP instrument. Next, turning down the mike gain will usually render the ALC dysfunctional, rendering a “skinny” sound to your modulation, and not the full, rich, punchy sound that's easier for stations to copy. Also, when you reduce “power” this way, you've caused a deterioration in carrier suppression, since the only thing that might be reduced by turning the mike gain down is the power of your signal while it's being modulated; if you had 50 dB carrier suppression when running full power, and you reduce power 10 dB by turning down the mike gain, now you have 40 dB carrier suppression, since the suppressed carrier isn't impacted at all by the mike gain setting.

Worse still is what can happen if you turn down the mike gain in order to reduce drive to an external amplifier: This is an accident waiting to happen. Without ALC activity, your transmitter is out of control. An occasional voice peak can hit “full” power output, even with reduced mike gain, and that peak will still overdrive the amplifier, causing splatter and distortion - or worse, destruction of the amplifier. This method cannot be trusted for reducing SSB power, period.

Most all commercially built amateur power amplifiers have an ALC output which is compatible with most all commercially built amateur radio transmitters. Connect that, and use it to control your output power. No ALC? Build a circuit, or add a power attenuator between the transmitter output and the amplifier input. But whatever you do, don't turn down the mike gain to control output power. The mike gain control is there to adjust the preamp gain for compatibility with your microphone and ambient noise conditions, and that's all it's there for.

Mike gain should be set (in conjunction with speech processing controls, if applicable) for normal ALC activity when speaking in a conversational tone about an inch from your microphone, while checking for signs of background noise modulation. In a noisy environment, you want to use the lowest mike gain setting possible when close-talking the microphone, to maximize punch and minimize undesired modulation. In a quiet environment, you can get away with more latitude of adjustment.

Conclusions

ALC works.

PEP is what counts.

Staring at your Wattmeter as you talk is a silly habit.

Don't try to “talk up” your average power. You'll sound worse on the air, and all those “ahhhhs” are goofy. If you like watching meters, invest in a good PEP Wattmeter. 95% of all power meters sold into the amateur radio market are not PEP meters.

Don't use your mike gain to adjust anything except setting mike preamp stage gain for compatibility with your mike and your environment. It's not a power output control.

Catch you on the air! I'll be the one not “ahhhh”ing.

[*Note: I have no association with Autek or anybody else selling ham gear. This is just my opinion. However, the $150 “bargain” meter is easily surpassed in value by the purchase of a $150 surplus wideband oscilloscope, which can not only be used to monitor PEP output power, but a lot of other stuff. Worth considering.]

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by W8JI on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Good article except we have to remember the exact rules from back years ago.

"So, it was deemed by the Powers That Be that a fair amount of SSB power should be 2000 Watts PEP, but still “measured” by DC input power. That's a tall order, and almost nobody could do this. But it was an interesting solution, and everyone who made a “1 kW DC Input Power” amplifier or transmitter now automatically rated it for “2000 Watts PEP input power,” without any way to actually measure that. "

The FCC rating was never 2KW PEP. It was always 1 KW DC maximum with a **grid driven amplifier and proper metering**. The legal limit was 900 watts dc on peaks without proper metering of HV and plate current at the same time.

We also had to deduct driver dc input power from grounded grid amplifier's plate input power. This means if you had an SB-220 heathkit amplifier driven by a typical radio with 150 watts dc input power (about 75 watts output), you could only run 850 watts dc input on the amplifier.

This means the SB-220 not only was never designed to run 1000 watts output or 2000 watts PEP output, it was NEVER actually rated for 1000 watts dc input either. The 1000 watts had to include the power in the transmitter driving the amp according to the FCC.


**Any grounded grid amp's calculated power input was supposed to include the dc power input of the transmitter's final amplifier stage.**

The change to 1500 watts was bigger than we might think!

73 Tom
 
Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by KC2BHE on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I really liked this article. Being somewhat of a newbie to SSB I found the part about Mic gain, ALC, and audio settings very useful. I have a rather deep booming voice and have been concerned about getting those settings right. I haven't actually done any substantive testing but am planning on connecting my audio spectrum analyzer to the monitor output of the tranciever as well as actually monitoring my signal on a seperate receiver. I'm not sure how much it will tell me but I hope I can draw some conclusions from what I see on the analyzer versus what sounds right thru the headphones.
73
Russ
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by WW5AA on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
It was a matter of pride at one time to be able to tune the Transmitter and amplifier in a matter of seconds. No longer so! I hear folks tuning for 3 min. and longer just to drive the amp for its last watt. The biggest ego buster was that first Power/SWR meter. Only 22 watts out on a 30 watt transmitter and a 5:1 SWR. Wwwaaaa!!!!

73 de Lindy
 
RE: Watt's New, Pussycat?  
by K4JSR on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Interesting PEP rally going on here.
Thanks Steve and Tom. There is much to learn here for some of us old geezers and newbies alike.
I hope many folks will learn that "KNOBS FULLY CLOCKWISE" just ain't right. If you want flat tops go buy some "Butch Wax"!

73, Cal K4JSR
 
RE:Wwwaaaa!!!!  
by K4JSR on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Lindy,
Didn't you mean to say "WW5AA"? :-D

73, Cal K4JSR
 
RE:Wwwaaaa!!!!  
by K9FON on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Great article! we need more of this educational stuff rather than the bickering.
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by 5R8GQ on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks for the informative article Steve. When I was first on SSB I used to watch the power meter and fume. I do not use ALC to my amp but I will give it a try and reconsider the practice. (I am using a PRO II into an AL80A).

Your remarks about the "AHHHHHHH" and "HeLOOOOOOO" guys was right on. My wife was once with me in the shack when I tuned upon someone doing that. She turned to me and said "Is that a COW on the air?".

WW5AA:
You are so right about the folks who take 3 minutes to tune up their amps! It is annoying and rude. If you can't tune up your amp in 10-15 seconds or less, you obviously don't know what you're doing and need to study the manual. I thought about it after typing that, got out my wrist watch, and checked it. Seems right to me. Paper tape with band hash marks on "Tune" and "Load" may look untidy but they work.

Steve: tnx agn es 73, Ken
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by W7ETA on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
GREAT prose!
TKS
73
Bob
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by K0BG on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Just this morning, I was ask how much power I was running (I was mobile at the time), as my contact was astonishment at how loud I was. My reply, about 1,100 watts PEP. It was then that I noticed I did not (!) have the amp on. What's this prove? It isn't always the power you run, it's the band conditions which count the most!

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
 
Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by K6MGK on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Great article Steve, I always look forward reading your posts.

73's
Mike
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by W0FM on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Another very imformative read, Steve. Don't know how I missed this one when it was first posted. Your writing style continues to be admirable, as I first discovered a number of years back when I realized that an editorial I had just read in Newsweek was, in fact, written by THAT Steve Katz!

Keep 'em coming!

73,

Terry, WØFM

 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by N3JBH on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Yet just another article senselessly promoting CW ,

Ok Just kidding Great read there Mr. Katz. I hope your wonderful article sinks in to the minds of them folks that need to understand it. Sadly it is like preaching to the choir I am afraid. Folks that don’t get it ,don’t take time to read this stuff either.
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by WB2WIK on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP Reply
by W0FM on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Another very imformative read, Steve. Don't know how I missed this one when it was first posted.<

::This article was originally run on June 9, 2004.

Time flies...

WB2WIK/6
 
Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by K9WJL on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
What a great article.
I'll have to give the ALC a try now.
Thanks Steve.
Bill K9WJL
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by WB2WIK on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
>Watt's New? Living with PEP Reply
by W8JI on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Good article except we have to remember the exact rules from back years ago.

"So, it was deemed by the Powers That Be that a fair amount of SSB power should be 2000 Watts PEP, but still “measured” by DC input power. That's a tall order, and almost nobody could do this. But it was an interesting solution, and everyone who made a “1 kW DC Input Power” amplifier or transmitter now automatically rated it for “2000 Watts PEP input power,” without any way to actually measure that. "

The FCC rating was never 2KW PEP. It was always 1 KW DC maximum with a **grid driven amplifier and proper metering**.<

::Yeah, Tom, I never meant to imply that 2000W PEP was anything other than an artificial "rating" applied by amplifier manufacturers. What I meant by "The Powers That Be" was the marketing gurus at the amplifier companies, not the FCC!

As I recall, *many* of them rated their 1kW DC input amplifiers as "2000W PEP input power!" That included National, Swan, Hallicrafters (with the SR-2000 Hurricane), Raytrack, BTI, et al. I don't remember if Heath fell into this or not, it's been a long time.

73

Steve WB2WIK/6
 
Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by G0GQK on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I was never ever concerned about PEP or signal reports. If I put out a CQ call and somebody answers, I'm loud enough !

G0GQK
 
Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by W8KQE on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Great article! To further complicate things for some of us when adjusting TX audio, we have to contend with SEVEN various settings/parameters! You need a doctorate in audio engineering to properly adjust for best audio (my situation)!

IC-756ProIII
* rig's bass/treble control
* mic gain
* comp on/off switch
* comp level control

Icom SM-8 desk mic
* low/high level switch
* variable low/high tone control
* variable min/max level control

How would you adjust for best audio in this scenario? In what order?

73, Geo
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by WR8Y on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Wow, Steve. You really brought back memories with this one. In fact, I COULD measure my input power on my HW16 (I knew the high voltage was something like 600 volts, measured it one time to be sure) and the rig had an ammeter in the plate supply. It only took simple math to verify I was below my 75 watt input limit as a novice.

Of course, CW made power measurements easy - none of this PEP stuff.

That was a fun read.

Mark
WR8Y
exWB8VUX
exWN8VUX
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by WB2WIK on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
>Watt's New? Living with PEP Reply
by W8KQE on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Great article! To further complicate things for some of us when adjusting TX audio, we have to contend with SEVEN various settings/parameters! You need a doctorate in audio engineering to properly adjust for best audio (my situation)!

IC-756ProIII
* rig's bass/treble control
* mic gain
* comp on/off switch
* comp level control<

::I'd adjust the bass/treble control according to what sounds best in a second receiver on a set of headphones, using standard SSB bandwidth filtering like 3.0 kHz. I adjust mike gain with comp OFF and set for small amount of indicated ALC activity when close-talking the microphone, from maybe 1-2" away from the mike and no farther. Then, turn ON the compression and adjust its level so the ALC indication is the same as it was when the comp was OFF.

>Icom SM-8 desk mic
* low/high level switch
* variable low/high tone control
* variable min/max level control<

::Beats me! I don't use mikes like that... :-)
I use a Heil PR-40 with no adjustable "anything," just plugged into the mike jack of my various transmitters. It always sounds good, on anything. I don't like desk mikes because:

-You usually have to lean over to speak into them;
-If you don't lean over, you're too far away from the mike;
-They transmit conducted vibrations and noise, such as from fans, blowers in amplifiers, and everything else;
-They transmit conducted "click" sounds when you press the PTT button (annoying, unless you bypass that and always use VOX or a foot switch).

So, those are the reasons I got rid of all my desk mikes about 25 years ago and only use boom mikes. Plus, boom mikes leave both hands free all the time to do other stuff (I use a footswitch or VOX to control the transmitter).

But, that's just me. Some people like desk mikes. I could never figure out why...

:-)

73

Steve WB2WIK/6

How would you adjust for best audio in this scenario? In what order?

73, Geo
 
Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by VK4JAZ on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Great article Steve. Now for the first time I understand what PEP actually is. This sure puts my mind at rest and will make operating 6m SSB so much more enjoyable as I won't spend my time worrying about why my little MFJ rig isn't pushing out as many watts on my SWR/Watt meter as the instruction manual shows. The rig is a 10W PEP rig.
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by WB2WIK on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
People visiting my shack while I'm operating usually comment on the same thing:

"How do you read the newspaper and watch TV while you're operating?"

I can do that because I'm never looking at a wattmeter!

:-)

WB2WIK/6
 
Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by KQ9J on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
"I'd adjust the bass/treble control according to what sounds best in a second receiver on a set of headphones, using standard SSB bandwidth filtering like 3.0 kHz. I adjust mike gain with comp OFF and set for small amount of indicated ALC activity when close-talking the microphone, from maybe 1-2" away from the mike and no farther. Then, turn ON the compression and adjust its level so the ALC indication is the same as it was when the comp was OFF."

:That is the way it should be done. I am always amazed at operators who keep their processor turned OFF, as though it is a bad thing to use. If used carefully, compression is great for the listener and helps achieve that "arm chair copy".

Likewise, some shun their ALC connection to the amplifier or adjust their ALC so there is insufficient ALC from the amp. The ALC should be kept in the working range at all times. Otherwise, the leading edges of peaks can overshoot.
 
Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by AI2IA on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
How true! How very, very true!
KQ9J says: "That is the way it should be done. I am always amazed at operators who keep their processor turned OFF, as though it is a bad thing to use. If used carefully, compression is great for the listener and helps achieve that "arm chair copy".

I have conducted many trials with the processor turned on and turned off on a Kenwood TS-570D. What a difference! If I had to name the best feature in that rig it would be the processor. The compliments that I have gotten with it on are quite surprising.
 
Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by KI4ABS on October 28, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Wow, very nice article and very informative. While I'm new to the hobby, I had a handle on most of this information. But it's refreshing to dig in a little bit deeper and really understand the theory. How'd I'd love to forward this to some of the ham's I hear with their distorted, nasty audio on SSB. Quit adjusting your output audio to match your wattmeter. Yes, you're loud, but not anymore readable that if you were just cracking the noise floor on my receiver.
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by G3RZP on October 29, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
ALC is a bit like fire - a good servant but a bad master. So it needs using with care. In some ways, it can be shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted if it is working on reducing drive only when the final stage(s) are distorting. The main point, I believe, is not to use too much of it - just as too much processing is a problem. This usually means not running too much gain so that the ALC is being relied upon to wind the gain back.
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by W4LGH on October 29, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
The only TRUE way to read PEP power is with an oscilloscope! A close 2nd is a good digital PEP meter.
As it can react fast enough to show the actual peaks.
Analog PEP meters are a "best guess" approach, and be fairly close, provided the pep adapter has enough hang time to allow the analog movement time to react.

Input power is easy to calculate, plate or collector voltage times the current. Newer tubes, can run anywhere between 50 to as much as 70% efficient, and solid-state PAs can go a tad higher. So if you have 2500volts @ 1amp that is 2500 watts input current, and using 50% efficiency would be 1250 watts output. It makes no difference what your output tube/s are, they are merely the VALVE to regulate this. Different tube can handle more plate voltage and more current, and are selected for this reason.

With that being said, someone on here said that an sb-220 was never a 2000 watt amp, and actually it was! If i recall, I believe there was 2700 volts @ 800mils on the plate and that comes out to 2160 watts input.

MFJ claims 600 watts out of their 3 tube model, and 800 watts out of their 4 tube model, these are ABSOLUTE MAX values and you are stressing the tubes. In actuality the 811A is good for about 160watts output, so 3 tubes is 480watts and 4 tubes is 640 watts. So it really makes no difference what your WATT meter says...it can be made to read whatever you want it to. The true power is the plate voltage times to plate current, times 50 to 60% and you will have your max output.

73 de W4LGH - Alan
http://www.w4lgh.com

 
Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by NE4EB on October 29, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Wow. Excellent. This should be required reading.

Although I "kinda" already knew and follow most of what the author was teaching, this read really filled in some holes and I learned quite a lot.

I wish all articles on this site were written with such professionalism.

73 John N4EEB
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by K1CJS on October 29, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Nice article with nice pointers--especially those new to HF and amplifiers. Thanks!
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by KM3F on October 29, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Very timely article.
All the info is in past copies of the ARRL hand books.
I just built a breakout box (8 pin din) for access to control functions on a Kenwood TS480 and added ALC contol.
The amp is the AMER. 80B 1Kw model.
While the power meter is quite good at peak reading it is not the last word in accuracy.
The main function is to observe the max grid current the ALC control affords before ALC feedback is derived for transeiver output limiting. (note this type control is a feature of the 80B).
What this does is allow full 100 watt drive setting at the transciever without over driving the amplifier. Without ALC limit setting, this could not be accomplished.
Also add in the ALC compression afforded in the tranciever as an added benifit.
Speech processing is still to be added to all the above.
Processor functions often are designed differently in other makes of transievers, so may not alway work the same.
ALC tends to greatly add compression to the overall output power without distortion assuming the amplifier is correctly adjusted for output tank setting into a reasonable antenna match condition and transciever setting are optimized.
I have yet to have a report of anything other than fine audio and fine IMD reports even from very close locals while running full on power and observed on a scope both near and far.
Believe it, it does work and a very fine added operating function that has been designed into the equipment for your use.
.
All you need to do is listen once to a CBer who has a power mike cranked up talking 2 feet from the mike, over driving the radio like a flood and some one who has disabled the radios ALC function in an attempt to get max power, and the attendent splatter on either side of the operating frequency, to appreciate why these functions are so valuable and should be used and understood.
Lastly, this is amateur radio. Those who complain about all the settings and understanding need to review why you are in the hobby. You are expected to develope an understanding according to your ticket requirements, so you can perform the best operating practices at all times. Remember...operating practices?
Thanks for reading and good luck.
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by SM0AOM on October 29, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Something which has not been discussed are the ratios between average and peak power.

For unprocessed speech it is often taken (ITU-R F.339) as 8 dB, and different processing schemes aim to increase the average power. A "reasonable amount" of processing usually results in a ratio of 4 - 6 dB.

The time constant or "damping" of the power indicating meter will influence the readings a lot, and this was the reason that the FCC (and several other Administrations) once specified that the time constant of any plate current indicating meter should not exceed 250 ms (which is a lot of damping).

The old 2 kW/1 kW (or 3 dB) ratio takes a lot of processing to achieve, and I more believe that owners of amplifiers like the SB-220 ran in the order of 3 kW PEP input when indicating 1 kW DC peak input.

The ALC of "yesteryear" which had a quite limited regulating range could very well have prevented some splatter due to overdrive, but today's ALC with poorly chosen time constants and excessive regulating range problably causes more splatter than it prevents.

It is no coincidence that professional SSB gear uses "TGC" as the power or level setting mechanism, "VOGAD" as a substitute for the mic gain control and finally an ALC with a very limited range to prevent overdrive and tripping the PA protection circuits.

73/

Karl-Arne
SM0AOM
 
Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by WA1KWA on October 29, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Very nice, Steve, as we have come to expect. Also some very informative comments. Thank you all.

Now, what about the amps that go to 11?

73,

Colin WA1KWA
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by WB2WIK on October 29, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Mine do go to 11.

It's my key to being loudest signal on the band. I have modified Marshall amps could extend beyond the standard 10 mark.

"You see, most blokes will be playing at 10. You’re on 10, all the way up, all the way up...Where can you go from there? Nowhere. What we do, is if we need that extra push over the cliff...Eleven. One louder."

Perfect.

:-)
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by W7ETA on October 29, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I always thought they shudda had flat-top hair cuts.
Bob
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by W9OY on October 29, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
What a bizarre thread

73 W9OY
 
Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by K9CTB on October 30, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I agree with the majority of the group. This is one of the great articles!! Well written and it's really timeless, because we have so much control of so many parameters on modern HF gear. Well done!!

73 de K9CTB
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by UC1AWX on October 30, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Yep, really bizzare thread. You guys got too many controls to play with. I really think SSB today sounds way worse than 20 years ago. But may it be because my poor radio don't have "decomp" to undo yours "comp" ? :))
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by PLANKEYE on October 31, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Bizarre thread Dude!!

It was like you were answering every post.

It was Bizarre man.

Gotta go, he's back again.


PLANKEYE
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by W8JI on November 1, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Actually a good PEP meter is significantly more accurate than an oscilloscope.

The problem with the scope is it has no storage and capture and hold of peaks, and since it does not use a directional coupler that samples line voltage and line current you have to use a SQUARE ROOT of the RMS voltage over line impedance with a 1:1 SWR to read and calculate power.

For example, if I have a scope showing "color" or "fill" or "light" on five 100 volt graticles it really means I have 500 volts PEAK of the sine waves on a scope (making up the envelope I see on the display). You see the crest of the sine waves, not the RMS value used to calculate power.

The RMS voltage (assuming the rig doesn't have very nasty harmonics or parasitics on other bands that distort the individual cycles) is very very close to .707 times that displayed envelope voltage. That would be 353.5 volts RMS in each of the sine-wave cycles. So the peak envelope power with a 50 ohm resistive load would be 353.5 ^ 2 / 50 = 2499 watts PEP when the scope display shows "light" going up to the 500 volt graticle.

Now we have the calibration frequency error, which is often 3 dB over the bandwidth of a scope. The power reading can be 50% off from that alone. ( in this case the dB error tracks since voltage dB is 20 log and power dB is 10 log the change) Then we have standing wave issues and load resistance issues. If the load is off 10% the power reading is off 10%, and that's on top of the visual and frequency sensitivity errors.

Then we have the fact the scope only sees and holds peaks in a random time slot, so you would have to a very slow sweep and long persistance scope, or use a peak triggered or peak storage scope.

Even if we had a pure 50 ohm load and calibrated the scope against a known good power meter and had a scope that would capture and hold peaks, we'd be damn lucky to resolve 5% of the voltage displayed. The error is the SQUARE of the voltage error!!!!

This is why the FCC and almost everyone else uses a power METER with peak storage instead of a scope.

A scope, contrary to what some might claim, is a terrible way to measure time-varying power.

A cheap 150 dollar AWM-30 by Ameritron would capture a fraction of a CW dot and display it with significantly higher accuracy than the very best oscilloscopes.

By the way, PEP power is the PEAK of the power in the envelope. If you had a perfect scope and the crest of the sine waves in the RF envelope was 1000 volts, the RMS voltage is used to calculate power. RMS voltage would be 707.10678 volts. THAT is the voltage you use to calculate PEP, not the 1000 shown at the crests of the RF sine waves.

Scopes really are very bad news for reading time-varying power, peak or otherwise.

73 Tom

 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by W8JI on November 1, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I'm sorry that opening statement should be the SQUARE of the RMS voltage over the load resistance, not the square root. The examples are correct.
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by AF6IT on November 4, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
If anyone thinks the changes in perspective in measuring transmit power in radio over the years is a bit odd, you would REALLY be amazed at the outright bizarre shenanigans by the audio industry. Anyone else ever notice the "P.M.P.O." method of lying about power output? Utterly meaningless marketing hype. I am boycotting any manufacturer who stoops to using it. A couple watt PC speaker is suddenly rated at 100 Watts P.M.P.O., with one manufacturer applying it different from the next. Absolutely meaningless!

Good article, by the way. I'd love to see more detail on how ALC works in different rigs.

AF6IT
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by WB2WIK on November 4, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP Reply
by AF6IT on November 4, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
I'd love to see more detail on how ALC works in different rigs.

AF6IT<

::What a great question, and good fodder for another article! ALC indeed works "differently" in various rig designs and this is a great subject.
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by G8GNZ on November 5, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Tom, whilst what you say is true, it is posted from a rather "non-'scope centric" point of view. Yes a 'scope is perhaps not the most easy pep wattmeter to use, but when one knows the limittions of a 'scope, most of these disappear. Most professional analogue scopes these days are > 100MHz 3dB bandwidth and at 30MHz are usually no more than 3% down on 50kHz, the normal test frequency.

An analogue wattmeter, even a peak reading wattmeter is rarely better than 10% accuracy and that only on a CW signal, perhaps they should be called a "whatmeter" :-) Only when you get to a truely professional instrument, like a Rohde & Schwarz NRP series meter, can you get accurate measurements. Even a Bird 43 type meter gives around 5% uncertainty.

Geoff
 
RE: Watt's New? Living with PEP  
by WB2WIK on November 7, 2008 Mail this to a friend!
Geoff, it's not "accuracy" that's really important, or at least it shouldn't be, for amateurs.

It's usefulness of the data provided.

A real PEP wattmeter provides continuously useful data. I couldn't care less if it's 5% off, or even 10% off. Inconsequential: Half a dB. I can change my power output half a dB every five seconds during a QSO and nobody will report the change.

What matters is, is the information provided by the instrument truly useful to me? PEP Wattmeters provide that useful data. A scope might, but it's not nearly as easy to achieve, especially if you're using a smaller scope. A 19" desktop flat panel monitor used as the video display for the scope would be a lot better, and of course technology is heading that way. But those using 4-5" scopes-? You can't even see 10% distortion on a display that small unless you're Superman.

WB2WIK/6
 
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