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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?

Gordon Hubbell (N1OU) on January 14, 2009
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Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?

Copyright 2009 - F. Gordon Hubbell, N1OU

Recently, I was asked to make a presentation to a group about the contributions ham radio operators make as “helpers”. After a few lookups to make sure I had my facts straight, I wound up giving them lots of examples, particularly concerning ARES, SKYWARN and MARS. There are plenty more, of course, but these filled my allotted time and I knew the audience could relate to them. The group really enjoyed the presentation and several commented on not realizing what a significant contribution hams make. It was a great opportunity to point out some of the highlights of our hobby.

Later, reflecting on the reaction of that audience and thinking about the way we (amateur radio operators) appear to the rest of the world, I had one of my (rare) deep thoughts: Is the term “Amateur” really appropriate nowadays? The English language has a way of constantly shifting and changing its meanings and applications. There are nuances to many words, some not so flattering.

This “shift” in the underlying meanings or implications of words is natural and normal. It comes from popular, every-day usage. Occasionally, somebody coins a new term or uses an old one in a new way and it catches on. Think about the way you may have seen the following words change meanings over time: Gay, Dude, Turkey, Cracker, Wicked, Crack, Fuzz and Bad. No doubt, you can add several to the list. Actually this could be the basis for a board game, but I'll leave that to Parker Brothers.

Now, think about “Amateur”. Think about it as if you weren't a radio-electronics hobbyist. Apply the term to modify something (as an adjective): “Amateur ______________”. Then, think about it as a noun: “an Amateur is a _____________. Finally, think about some variations on it: “Amateur-ish,” for example.

In my business (and I suspect in a lot of others) we have a saying that's pretty deep: “Perception Is Reality”. This means that what the recipient of a message or reader of a term sees or infers is their interpreted reality and we need to be aware that it can be different from our own meaning or intention. From the comments that I got after that meeting, I'm seeing the term “Amateur” as a different fit to our activities than it was in the days when Hiram Percy Maxim plied the airways.

In those olden times, Amateur came into use as a differentiator. It fit because an Amateur Radio Operator was somebody who didn't make their living from or didn't have “radio electronics” as their main pursuit. In short, a “hobbyist” as opposed to a “professional”. The meaning still fits, of course, because we don't pursue our hobby for profit. But, has the term evolved? I'm not sure it has, but I'm sure it is evolving!

It's very easy to find a current definition of “Amateur”. Here's one from the online Merriam-Webster Dictionary: One who engages in a pursuit, study, science or sport as a pastime rather than a profession. I'll go along with that. It's when we start to look at synonyms (words that mean the same thing or that are close) that I think an issue arises and we see some evolution of the word and its usage. Try these on for size: Dilettante, Dabbler, Tyro, Unskilled. In terms of their connotation (the “perception is reality” thing) only “Tyro” (a “newbie” to use a currently popular term) is kind of neutral. All the others have at least some negative implication.

Here's another grain for the brain-mill from the controversial Wikipedia:

An amateur is generally considered a person attached to a particular pursuit, study, or science, without formal training or pay.[1] Conversely, an expert is generally considered a person with extensive knowledge, ability, and/or training in a particular area of study, while a professional is someone who also makes a living from it. Translated from its French origin to the English "lover of", the term "amateur" reflects a voluntary motivation to work as a result of personal passion for a particular activity.

As with any construct, amateurism can be seen in both a negative and positive light. Since amateurs often do not have training, amateur work can sometimes be seen as sub-par. For example, amateur athletes in sports such as basketball or football are not regarded as having the same level of ability as professional athletes

It's the second paragraph above that provokes me. Why? Because many of us are or were electronics professionals and many of us, even if not coming from those ranks, progress and develop “professionalism” in at least some part of our endeavor. Do we want, ultimately, a term applied to us that may be disparaging or degrading? We must realize that we have very little control over the utilization of terms. For instance, the term “ham” (stories differ on where it came from) among meanings other than a chunk of pork can mean a “bad actor”. But, if we wanted to, we could influence usage of terms applied to us - many groups do.

The bottom line is that our basic defining label is changing. That's to be expected. What might we really be in terms of using a more current word or words, or coining a new word to describe us? Turn on your creativity. Put on your thinking cap. Come up with a suggestion. This should be fun!

73

Gordon Hubbell

N1OU

Author's footnote: Sometimes even the slightest, most inconsequential fact, term, practice, or mention will start a mega-thread of responses to articles and posts here on eHam. Often, these odd exchanges are entertaining (my goal here) but occasionally some responses are ill-tempered and mean-spirited, drawing out the worst of the flamers and trolls who hide in the corners. This is a “food for thought” article. Nothing more. It was written because of an incident that made me think about our hobby “outside the box”, so to speak. Please enjoy it in that light.

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
A couple of thoughts:

1) Amateur radio is essentially "radio for its own sake". Radio as an end in itself, rather than as a means to another end.

2) The term "professional" really means "does for money" and does not necessarily mean something done at the highest level.

3) Perhaps words like "volunteer" would be useful?

4) This isn't a new thing. Way back about 1921, the ARRL briefly tried to change the term "amateur" to "citizen", and for a couple of months the cover of QST bore the phrase "devoted entirely to citizen wireless". The term failed to catch on and soon they went back to "amateur".

5) Yes, we ARE amateurs. "Amateur" comes from the Latin for "love", and means a person who does something not for money nor for hire, but for the value of the thing itself.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AJ4RW on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
What about the term "Expert Radio Operator". I think in my 40 Years of operating that would be more appropriate. Also, while we're on the subject, how about exploring the idea of expanding the frequency range and creating one (or more) class upgrades. Just a little food for the mind. One more term to eliminate is "ham" (pig). That reminds me of being lazy, sloppy, and obese. I don't have a replacement for that term but elimination of it is a great idea.
73's AJ4RW
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by WA5UHK on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

My Latino friends are aficionados. Translates to "fans" of something.

http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=aficionado

When you go first, sometimes you don't get it quite right. I think we are stuck with our terms because we went first in a science....again.

I hope we continue to be the first at inventions that haven't been thought of yet.
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K4MC on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
After watching the political ARES shanagins that occurred in central Florida when a member of a socially oriented club's board of directors attempted the hijacking of the areas service oriented ARES club and their equipment, I found that, to anyone looking in from the outside, "Amateur" would be a kind description.

K4MC
Orlando Florida
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by KG4RUL on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
WOW, this article is like Deja Vu all over again!! And as before, until my license no longer says "Amateur Radio Service", the term "Amateur" will do for me.
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K4IQT on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
While it is true that in our hobby "Since amateurs often do not have training, amateur work can sometimes be seen as sub-par," amateur radio also is the largest pool of unpaid experts in emergency communications in the world.

"Amateur" is an excellent term for us, as most of us really do "love" our hobby; it is a true passion for us, and unfortunately as a result quite a few ham marriages are crowded out of existence.

Some of our work, though, is definitely sub-par, as can be seen in the large number of hams today who do not own nor understand the workings of a common VOM or GDO. This is not just a problem today, but has been such ever since new ham gear has been available that did not require frequent tweaking or repair (post-1970's or so). And code or no-code has nothing to do with it. Memorizing answers will get you a license, but if you never build anything, even from kits, you just won't "get it". At the same time, even many of those who are technically ignorant can be excellent disciplined communicators and good representatives of the amateur radio community.

And, without amateur radio, quite a few of us would never have wound up in the technical careers we pursued. The seed of our successes has often been the passion and creativity we bring from amateur radio.

Thank you for a thought-provoking treatise on why we are called "amateurs"!

Terry, K4IQT
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by KB2DHG on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Since first introduced to this hobby way back in the late 60's I never really liked the term AMATEUR...
BUT today I have come to respect that term... I don't care that non AMATEUR's or HAM's will not understand the real professionalism to what we do and the wonders of this great hobby... What we need to do is expose to the general public the real value and service AMATEUR RADIO OPERATORS are to this world...
Setting fourth exposure to the general public and media will foster a real respect and appreciation to the term AMATEUR RADIO OPERATOR...

Yes, words do have change of meaning and the term AMATEUR in our hobby means to me being a part of an elete group of interesting intelagent giving people.

Nice article
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K0BG on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The FCC refers to us as the Amateur Radio Service, and I'm fine with that. But...

I do not like, nor do I use the term HAM, but I'm not really offended by it. However, I despise those who use the term as if it were an inanimate object. For example, "I've been thinking about getting into HAM..."

In the theater sense, ham means someone who emotes on stage to the point, that it is obvious. Of course, some amateurs do that too, and hence live up to the name. I prefer to call those guys LIDs.

I much prefer to use the term amateur. In fact, on my web site the word ham only shows up once, and in the context of "Joe Ham".

Call it what you may, and I'll do the same.

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by G3RZP on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N2EY said:
>The term "professional" really means "does for money" and does not necessarily mean something done at the highest level.<

That is unfortunately so true, in many walks of life.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by KG6WLS on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Alan says: "I do not like, nor do I use the term HAM"

Should have said:

I would not, could not, in a box.
I could not, would not, with a fox.
I will not eat them with a mouse.
I will not eat them in a house.
I will not eat them here or there.
I will not eat them anywhere.
I do not eat green eggs and HAM.
I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

I couldn't resist.

:)

 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by W5ESE on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I like the term 'Amateur Radio'. I took up the
hobby after a time pursuing 'Amateur Astronomy',
and they are similar in several respects.

I don't get the bad vibes from the terms
'dilettante' or 'dabbler' that some seem to. They
refer accurately to the way I perceive myself
engaging in the hobby.

On the other hand, I don't care much for the term
'ham radio', and wish that the ARRL hadn't changed
the names of some of their publications. As an
example, the technician class license manual is now
entitled 'The ARRL Ham Radio License Manual'. The
license manuals for higher class licenses don't
have 'Ham Radio' in the titles, but they do
refer to it that way in the subtitles. They also
have 'Getting Started with Ham Radio',
and 'The ARRL Software Library for Hams'.

I don't think this is an improvement.

When I was beginning in the hobby (1970's), the
license book was always called 'The Radio Amateur's
License Manual'. They also had 'How to Become a
Radio Amateur', 'Understanding Amateur Radio', 'The
Radio Amateur's Handbook', and 'The Radio Amateur's
VHF Manual', among many others, that all used the
term 'Amateur Radio' instead of 'Ham Radio'.

http://www.n4mw.com/ARRL/arrlpubs.htm

I felt that was better.

73
Scott
W5ESE
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by KJ7BS on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
How about "Appliance Operator" since so many in our ranks can't build any station equipment.

Respectfully,

Mark, KJ7BS
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K0BG on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Michael, I suspect you and Dr. Seuss are related. You do know he was slightly warped? At least his humor was.

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by NU0R on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Excellent Article >>> well thought out and expertly written.---- I have often thought about this same subject and it is a real head scratcher. We all want credit and respect for what we know or have accomplished in radio. The rub comes when we realize that not all of us have the same degree of expertise.--- The answer? Well it is kind of like a musician or singer. When you are excellent at it, people will tell you so. If they don't then you know you have work to do to get there.---- Take Steve, WB2WIK, for example (hope you don't mind Steve). Steve would not need to tell you how sharp he is. All you would need to do is read Steve's writings to know immediately that Steve is not an amateur. What is he? He is a person who is intensely knowledgeable in the art of radio and electronics. By the way, his expertise goes way beyond just radio.--- My point is this. A title is just that, a title, and a title can't make or break a true radio enthusiast.--- I vote for Electomagnetic Spectrum Investigative Analyst--HI HI!
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by WA3SKN on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
How about “Radio Operators of America Communications Hierarchy”?
And we call ourselves ROACHs!
Then we can have different classes…
Poor radio operators, Mediocre radio operators, and Excellent radio operators.
We would really have a good reason to upgrade!

“Not all change is improvement, but you cannot have improvement without change.”

Since the FCC still has an “Amateur Radio Service”, I will still be an “amateur radio operator”… it’s best that way!

-Mike.
 
Ham I am  
by WB2WIK on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I don't mind the term "ham," and I use it.

If somebody asks me about my antennas, or a rig in my car, or whatever, I usually say, "I'm a ham radio operator. Remember the old movies with guys tapping on Morse code keys and stuff? Yeah, I'm one of them."

It answers the question!
 
What's In A Name? An important matter.  
by AI2IA on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
This subject comes up every so often, and this is good, because this is most important. It is more a matter of language than amateur radio.

I have been a technical writer for just about most of my adult life and retired from that profession. Language is the essential means of communication, and we must be very careful with it. Languages can be destroyed. Languages differ in quality and usefulness.

There is colloquial usage and precise usage. Since amateur radio is a technical endeavor, we ought to aim to be precise rather than informal and conversational about it.

Words when used precisely are autonomous. They mean what they say, and not what the writer, speaker, reader, or listener intend them to mean. This is critical to communication (and to law).

There are always those who want to elevate the importance of amateur radio in the minds of others. This may be a noble intention, or it may stem from personal pride. It does not matter. The point is that most folks most of the time think and speak in a colloquial fashion. They don't feel the need, most of the time to be very precise.

Amateur radio is a precise endeavor. We need to communicate about it in a precise way to be accurate and to give it the respect it deserves. Therefore, regardless of what the word "amateur" conveys to the colloquial mind, WE NEED TO PRESERVE THE LABEL -AMATEUR RADIO. It is an amateur activity as opposed to a professional one. Amateur is a very good and precise word for what we are and what we do. - Ray Mullin, AI2IA

Do you understand and agree with this?
 
RE: What's In A Name? An important matter.  
by K1BXI on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"There are always those who want to elevate the importance of amateur radio in the minds of others."

Ray.....I might not always agree with some of your post's, but in this one, I couldn't have said it better.

John
 
RE: What's In A Name? An important matter.  
by WI7B on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

This ain't philosophy class. While we operate in FCC designated Amateur Radio Service, these definitions apply...

Sec. 97.3 Definitions.

(a) The definitions of terms used in part 97 are:
(1) Amateur operator. A person named in an amateur operator/primary license station grant on the ULS consolidated licensee database to be the control operator of an amateur station.
(2) Amateur radio services. The amateur service, the amateur-satellite service and the radio amateur civil emergency service.
(4) Amateur service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio
technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.
(5) Amateur station. A station in an amateur radio service consisting of the apparatus necessary for carrying on radiocommunications.

You can imagine yourself as whatever you want, but not will operating under FCC authority.

73,

---* Ken
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N6EY on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"1) Amateur radio is essentially "radio for its own sake". Radio as an end in itself, rather than as a means to another end. "

Jim, that is very descriptive of the Amateur Radio Service. Working in public safety communications and volunteering with EMCOMM activities here, it is clear that is the case.

One interesting point of the ARECC course is that the courses emergency communications is comprised of many different means of communications - not strictly amateur radio.

Being a professional in the field of telecommunications and emergency management, I find that the most effective EMCOMM groups are ones that can be integrated into a bigger team, as opposed to the old model of existing completely separate from other organizations.

R/
Jason N6EY
 
RE: What's In A Name? An important matter.  
by KA4CKR on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I think that the term Amateur is fine and don't advocate any changes to it. I would, however, like to inform the public that the meaning WE ascribe to the term "Amateur" is not the same as the term most of them ascribe to it, which is "unskilled".

The debate is similar to the debate over the semantics of "volunteer" and "professional" in the fire service. Most people don't refer to the firefighters with these terms anymore because a volunteer firefighter can be just as "professional" as the paid members of a fire department. The word professional may mean "paid for the job", but it has come to mean "skilled". Many of the volunteer firefighters go through the same training as paid firefighters and they do almost as much ongoing training as their paid counterparts. Therefore, they refer to themselves as professional.

Our EOC is right next to the dispatch center. One of our local hams was down here talking to us and one of the dispatchers wandered over to get in the conversation. The topic was, of course, radios. The conversation steered to dispatch and the other ham was talking about something when the dispatcher (being snooty) stated, "Well I'm a PROFESSIONAL Radio Operator and you're just an AMATEUR." At that point, the ham asked this professional about fifteen rapid-fire technical questions about her own (dispatch) equipment, which of course she could not answer. He then gave her the correct answers to his own questions, after which he said, "Who is the professional and who is the amateur?" Point being, being paid for something may make it your profession, but it doesn't make you a professional.

Instead of all these fluff peice articles in newspapers about this person or that club "Hamming it Up", I'd like to see articles titled, "Amateur Radio Anything But Amateur".

Just my two cents (adjusted for inflation to .036572 cents).

Tim Newman
Asst Director
Reno County Emergency Management
Hutchinson, KS
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K1CJS on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
An amateur radio operator is 'into' the hobby because of the pleasure he or she gets from it. Beginners who are just entering the hobby can also be thought to be participating and learning as they go along--which is one definition of the word amateur. Long time amateur operators are those who know quite a bit about the hobby and love it so much that they continue just for the satisfaction of doing so--another definition of amateur.

In any case it is again coming down to semantics--like so many other 'problems' with the English language today. Isn't it strange that today people want to squeeze terminology to narrow definitions--and ignore or 'redefine' traditional meanings of words and terms? We are amateur radio operators and have been since the beginning, and we will be just that. Not non-professional radio operator, not volunteer radio operator, not any sort of officially appointed radio operator either--but just an amateur radio operator. Period.

If you don't like the term 'amateur', maybe you don't like the hobby that much either.
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by W8KQE on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
'HAMATEUR RADIO OPERATOR' ; )
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AB7E on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I don't mean this as a flame, but I honestly don't understand this preoccupation with terminology. It pops up every once in a while in ham radio circles but hardly anyone cares. Whether we call ourselves ham radio operators or amateur radio operators, we all know who we are and what we do. Speak with any random citizen out there and 99% of them will recognize either term, and they will have as much (or more) knowledge of what we do than they would if we used any alternative term.

I guess some people feel the personal need to be precisely defined by terms, but that just seems insecure and anal to me. Tech manuals? Yes. People participating in a hobby as diverse as amateur radio? Doesn't make sense to me.

73,
Dave AB7E

 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K7JQ on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Wow...what a bunch of rhetoric!

"Amateur", "Ham"....call me what you want.

Been in the hobby for 50 years, and still lovin' it, and USING it practically every day.

That's the way it is...and I like it. :)

K7JQ
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by W5GNB on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Generally when I tune across the 20-Meter Phone band I tend to hear more JERKS than Hams or Amateurs........

73's
Gary - W5GNB
Still "HAMMING it UP" after 48 years....
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by TIMEWILLTELL on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I believe that the name of Amateurs is just fine. I have seen, since the testing was changed with no code required, that the same bunch of complainers that didn't want the code dropped in testing doing this. They want to establish some sort of division of the classes, to create another class, please notice how much better I am than the average ham. Please start a class of operator that will give me a distinctive name that says, I know how to do code. I think it is hilarious.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K5END on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I didn't realize the word "Ham" is offensive to a lot of people, and will keep that in mind.

There's nothing wrong with the term, "amateur," when used as "Amateur Astronomer." In fact, some of those unpaid stargazers are very sophisticated in their activity.

And there are a lot of gifted "Amateur Photographers,"
which is supposed to separate the snapshotters from those who pursue it as an art form.

But I take your point on "Amateur Radio," and the connotations the expression may carry and the perception held. Clearly, this hobby has an extraordinarily wide demographic and social cross section. Our spectrum covers polite experts to uninformed boors.

As an exercise, browse the amateur astronomy and amateur photograpy forums to see how many disputatious flamers you find there, and compare that percentage to what you see in our hobby.

Food for thought.

73
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K5END on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Two more points (SRI, I'm on a roll today.)

1. Name a sport or contesting activity where the player must facilitate his "opponent's" scoring of points in order to score his own points.

That's an easy question in this forum. But ask that same question in a group unfamiliar with Amateur Radio. And, can anyone name another sport with that attribute? That says a lot to me about the intended nature of amateur radio.

2. Considering the comment comparisons to the "amateur" nomenclature and "Amateur Astronomy," I find it remarkably coincidental that the Author's last name is Hubbell!

 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by W9OY on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
This is one of the silliest threads I've ever read. There are a lot of amateurs. There are amateur golfers who are scratch players, bowlers who average in the mid 200's, basketball players who can charge the basket with the best of them and on and on. Just about every field of endeavor has amateurs who are very accomplished, to being world class. Olympic athletes were once considered amateurs. If the term amateur somehow makes you feel inferior then get yourself a shrink.

73 W9OY
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by WI7B on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!


OK, I can take a hint. Don't like the FCC definitions? Instead of Amateur Radio Service, why not change Part 97 to one of the following:


Sec. 97.3 Definitions.

(a) The definitions of terms used in part 97 are:
(1) Orange Vest operator. A person named in an Orange Vest operator/primary license station grant on the ULS consolidated licensee database to be the control operator of an orange vest wearer's station.
(2) Orange Vest radio services. The amateur service, the orange vest-satellite service and the radio orange vest civil service.
(4) Orange Vest service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of [fill in the blank] carried out by Orange Vest wearers, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely for carrying an HT and wearing an Orange Vest and without pecuniary interest.
(5) Orange Vest station. A station in an Orange Vest radio service consisting of the apparatus necessary for carrying on.


OR...


Sec. 97.3 Definitions.

(a) The definitions of terms used in part 97 are:
(1) Mainly older white male operator. A person named in a mainly older white male operator/primary license station grant on the ULS consolidated licensee database to be the control operator of an mainly older white male station.
(2) Mainly older white male radio services. The amateur service, the mainly older white male-satellite service and the mainly older white male radio civil emergency service.
(4) Mainly older white male service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of [fill in the blank] carried out by mainly older white males, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely from lack of [fill in the blank] and without pecuniary interest.
(5) Mainly older white male station. A station in an mainly older white male radio service consisting of the apparatus necessary for carrying on stuff.

With all due humor,


---* Ken
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by NR1X on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
First off , great article.. Next, I am a no code general class amateur radio operator and I strive to operate in a profesional manner. Slowly but without a doubt i am transforming to a know code amateur radio operator.. I think it is all a matter of interpretation, and this is why we as a whole have a hard time with the term Amateur. my interpretation is this, I am a control operator of amateur radio equipment. It is not me that is amaturish it is the equpment..(all else fails, blame the gear). So as communicators we look for black and white, yes or no. We leave no room for maybe, and this is good when it is a piece of emergency traffic.. Those who see us in a negative light will certainly have a change of heart when all else does fail, and we sling our wires to whatever high object we can and get them in touch with their loved ones, much needed food, water or medical attention.. Until that day i will proudly wear the name Amateur Radio Control Operator and I hope that all of my Amateur brothers will stand with me..
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K5END on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I know some licensed "Amateurs" who are also "Professional" radio personnel.

Same person, same interest, same physics.

The only distinction is whether they are "on the clock."

 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K2LCK on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I have gotten used to "HAM",for over 50 years now, although it certainly doesn't sound complementary.. Many years ago I started a "movement" to change HAM to "LAM", for "Licensed Amateur" but I seemed to be the only one in favor of that, so I guess HAM it will stay..Ed
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K4ZN on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Perhaps we should bill ourselves as amateurs in the same sense that Olympic athletes are ‘amateurs’. We see the Olympic athletes that go to the Olympics every four years. What we do not see are the 1000's of young people that aspire to go to the Olympics that compete in the gyms, rings, and fields, etc. across the world.

Amateur Radio certainly has top performers. Top performers may compete in contests, or build state of the art equipment, or build satellites, bounce signals off the moon, or write new software for SDR radios, or design new weak signal modes, or do any number of things that hams do. But, there are 1000's who are just dabbling, or just starting out, or just learning. Some will become the top performers of tomorrow.

Just as in sport there are all manner of people at all levels, so it is with Amateur Radio.
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by G0GQK on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
As you described we are radio amateurs. What we do is a hobby,we are not paid, as professionals are paid.
We don't study at University to be a surgeon, doctor, pilot, musician who have many years of study and dedication.

How can we be anything else than amateurs when some of us know nothing about balums (sic) diapoles (sic) know nothing about the many formula's required to make antennas, and call one of them boxes with knobs on the front and wires out of the back, a tunner !

G0GQK
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by TIMEWILLTELL on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
maybe we could start a new class of radio operators that believe they are superior to everyone else. Oh, oh, oh, oh,......the line is already starting to form.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by KB0NPW on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I don't care what they call us, as long as they don't take our frequencies away from us or make a bunch of sweeping changes to the hobby.
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AI2IA on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Dave, AB7E, and others may not see it as this, but this topic is really more about language than it is about amateur radio. If we are imprecise in our language, then we are imprecise in our thinking, and that is never good.

In amateur radio, it is the amateur part that is being considered here more than the radio part. Coloquial usage is very powerful and very corrosive to language, if we tolerate it. The fact is that many who use almost exclusively colloquial language simply don't like the word "amateur" and equate it with clumsy, unskilled people. Look how the popular media and most folks use the word "doctor" when they really mean "medical doctor" or physician. Most doctors are not physicians, and they have a valid claim to the title by virtue of being "teachers" and writers of doctoral dissertations. The hallmark of being educated is the ability to command language and use it precisely so that you communicate accurately. Uneducated or undereducated people lack this ability, often through little fault of their own, and they miss out on things in life because of it. This is just the way it is. To surrender precise words because of coloquial usage popularity is to destroy the advantages of good language, and this is not academic theory, but downright practical wisdom.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N7YA on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I say HAM, because its what most non-hams think we call ourselves. I also dont focus on the ARES or MARS aspect...i see that they tend to be more interested in the "beep-ba-beep talking around the world stuff" than any of the other stuff...so i always explain HAM's working DX and they seem to get it. If they somehow find it interesting enough to pursue it, thats when they discover the other aspects.

You really need to hit people with the lowest common denominator these days to reel them in with most things.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AB7E on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AI2IA: "Dave, AB7E, and others may not see it as this, but this topic is really more about language than it is about amateur radio. If we are imprecise in our language, then we are imprecise in our thinking, and that is never good. "

I am (or was before I retired) an engineer by vocation, but I have always valued and encouraged precise language ... sometimes to the point of being derided by those around me. Still, the engineer in me argues against pretending there is more precision than the data warrants. The ranks of amateur radio include technology experts who rarely turn on a rig, contest operators with amazing non-technical skills, old-time ragchewers exclusively using amplitude modulation, FM VHF'ers whose only interest is being able to contact a few friends without a cellphone, DXers who only get on the band when a new one shows up, casual operators who simply want to meet new people once in a while, etc etc. If you think there is value in pursuing a more precise nomenclature that wraps itself around the breadth of this mere hobby, or have a reasonable expectation that one even exists, go for it.

Personally, I think in this case that you're overestimating the significant digits of the data. More to the point, I think that N1OU's article is an outgrowth of some sort of insecurity complex. He states in conclusion, "Do we want, ultimately, a term applied to us that may be disparaging or degrading?" That's not a search for precision ... that's a search for validation.

73,
Dave AB7E

 
Definitions and a Viewpoint  
by K6LHA on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Ken's (WI7B) definitions are correct. The FCC is the ONLY authority that gives all officially licensed (and sometimes officious) radio amateurs their beloved call letters and basic ego-stoking. Trouble is, the ARRL goes on verbal afterburner in trying to boost that ego beyond the Mach 1 of reason.

The FCC calls 'radio amateurs' as Radio Amateurs. In the broadest sense that service falls into the general lump called 'personal radio service.' Every other radio service is definitely professional in one way or another. What so many can't seem to understand is that Personal Radio Services are in the multiple millions and used every day: Cellular telephony, cordless telephones, Wii, keyless auto entry transmitters, CB, model radio control, FRS HTs, Wireless radio services and home networks, wireless keyboards and mice, remote sensing of outside air conditions, all sorts of low-power RF gadgets from cleaning robots to baby monitors to barbecue grill sensors (!).

Those waayyyyy outnumber radio amateurs. Users are (gasp!) UNlicensed civilians! :-)

To be fair, most of the preceding fall under Part 95 in Title 47 C.F.R. Cell phones and 'Bluetooth' remote in-the-ear headsets for same are used with the evil infrastructure of telephony services...although Harald Blatand and his namesake low-power two-way RF thing is not directly part of it.

In the USA the 'amateur radio service' is concentrated in the HF part of the EM spectrum and, in actual use, is little more than licensed CB (and don't forget the all-important Federal Authorization!) whose role-model was as it existed in the 1920s and 1930s. Three words can sum it up: CB with licensing. The only thing that has changed in eight decades is the technology. Use is still the same, just Personal Conversations.

If the FCC defines Amateur Radio as a de facto HOBBY, then every radio amateur is an amateur. I have no trouble with that, having become a radio professional one month shy of just 56 years ago. :-)

What becomes a problem with so many is their own personal ego baggage...not to mention a lot of wish-fulfillment. Many want to be 'equivalent' to professionals yet haven't been IN the bigger business of radio communications AS professionals. [see the six tiers of USA amateur radio license classes as a glimpse of legislated pro-wannabe titles]

Why can't hobbies just be for personal enjoyment and stop all this BS about 'professionalism?' Especially using standards and practices that went out of date in the real professional radio world decades ago?

73, Len AF6AY
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N2EY wrote: "1) Amateur radio is essentially "radio for its own sake". Radio as an end in itself, rather than as a means to another end. "

N6EY (!) replies: "Jim, that is very descriptive of the Amateur Radio Service. Working in public safety communications and volunteering with EMCOMM activities here, it is clear that is the case."

Glad you agree, Jason. I think that's how we should 'sell' amateur radio. "It's the journey, not the destination."

N6EY: "One interesting point of the ARECC course is that the courses emergency communications is comprised of many different means of communications - not strictly amateur radio.

Being a professional in the field of telecommunications and emergency management, I find that the most effective EMCOMM groups are ones that can be integrated into a bigger team, as opposed to the old model of existing completely separate from other organizations."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the changes that has taken place over the years in EMCOMM is that more and more agencies want amateurs to be part of the bigger team *before* an emergency. Which means training, registration, etc., ahead of time, not just showing up when a disaster happens.

IMHO where radio amateurs can make the biggest contribution is in their ability to make-do with available resources - whatever form they take.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N2EY Wrote: "The term "professional" really means "does for money" and does not necessarily mean something done at the highest level."

G3RZP replied: "That is unfortunately so true, in many walks of life."

Yep. And yet, the term "professional" is held up by some as if it is some form of magic talisman meaning "better", when all it really means is "does it for pay".

Even rigmakers have gotten into the act. Icom, for example, sells a model of *amateur* transceiver with the suffix "PRO" in the model number. What is that supposed to mean? Is my amateur station somehow better if my store-bought rig has "PRO" in its name?

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AI2IA on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Many of the commentators here are focusing on the "radio" word in the phrase amateur radio. Precision in radio varies from little to extensive knowledge. No one disputes that.

In this situation, the name "amateur radio," the need for precision is on the use of the word "amateur." It is a perfectly good and precise word and deserves to be used to designate those who engage in any endeavor for personal satisfaction and not pecuniary gain. No ego is involved here, regardless of whether or not some want ego to be invovled. It has to do with respect for the autonomy of words. There are those who would reduce our culture to the level of savages. There are also those who would reduce our language to the level of savages.

Sloppy use of words make poor containers for clear thoughts. We should strive to have enough command of our language at all times to be able to say what we mean, clearly and unambiguously. This issue is not about radio in any way. It is about communication to achieve clear understanding. If you are going to put a label on something, an old sock or a spectrum analyzer, make your label fit as clearly and precisely as possible. In this instance, forget your radio. Cultivate your vocabulary and be in total command of what your are saying.
 
Why all capitals?  
by N2EY on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Reading these replies brings up a question...

I’ve been a licensed radio amateur since 1967, and was acquainted with amateur radio for a couple of years before that. One of the first things I learned was that the term “ham radio” was simply a shortened/slang way of saying “amateur radio”.

Around 1900, the term “ham” was derogatory, meaning anything done in an unskilled or untrained way. There were “ham actors”, “ham telegraphers”, and when the new wireless technology appeared, “ham radio operators”. Unlike most other uses of the word, “ham radio” stuck, probably because “amateur radio” was rather cumbersome, and because the derogatory meaning disappeared.

In all of the years from then to about 2000, the term “ham” was never capitalized unless it was the first word in a sentence. It was always just “ham radio”. In fact, the now-defunct magazine by the same name went one better, and didn’t capitalize the words in the magazine name on the cover. “Ham” when applied to radio isn’t a proper name, like Jim, nor an acronym like FCC, NASA or CIA.

But some years back, I began to see the word “ham” written in all capitals when used to mean “ham radio”. This use was almost exclusively on the internet, where some folks would write of “ham radio” and others would write of “HAM radio” and “HAMs” as if it were an acronym for something, or some sort of special word.

Some folks have told me that “HAM” derives from the publication “WorldRadio”, but looking through back issues of that magazine I don’t see “HAM” in all-capitals. Nor do I see it in any other printed publications devoted to amateur radio.

When and why did “HAM” begin to be used, rather than "ham"? Anybody know?

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: Why all capitals?  
by KB9CRY on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Another profound and informative eHam article posting.

I am glad that this subject is being covered as it never has been discussed for at least for 6 months.
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AI2IA on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I agree with Jim, N2EY, that in so far as colloquial conversation goes, ham radio gets the idea across. It is a fine "everyday" expression. When we want to convey that we are talking about more exact matters in regard to this endeavor, we ought to identify it as "amateur radio."

Among members of the family it is okay to call the head of family "Pop." When speaking about him to neighbors and others, you do best to refer to him as your "father."

If none of this matters to you, that's your choice. If you have an appreciation for good communication, you might go further.
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AE5X on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
yawn
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by NB3O on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I like being an "Amateur", since a "Professional" can be held fiscally libel for his mistakes.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by KC0RBX on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
1. Steak Radio Operator
2. Doughnut radio operator
3. Beer Radio operator
4. Coffee radio operator
5. Corn Cob radio operator
6. ....
Amateur is fine for me. So is ham. I guess when I think of Olympic Athletes, they used to be in Amateur status, until basketball at least. You could say that those athletes being amateur were far from terrible to be able to make it on the Olympic team. When I was a competitive rifle shooter, we had to be very careful with awards. We could collect no monetary awards or compensations for a win or points. This was so we could remain eligable for an olympic spot. Those who did make it on the team were the best shooters in the world, paid or unpaid, though still amateur.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K5END on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
quote, "Why can't hobbies just be for personal enjoyment and stop all this BS about 'professionalism?' Especially using standards and practices that went out of date in the real professional radio world decades ago?"

The hobby does not exist without the hobbyist.

Hobbyists have varied personalities, and because of the variety of personalities, derive satisfaction from the hobby in different ways.

Some people are content to be relaxed about fine details. These people use the hobby as a way to relax. The critics of this behavior call it "sloppy."

Other people derive relaxation from a sense of satisfaction after having achieved excellence, or from having refined order from chaos. Critics of this behavior call it "anal retentive."

Conclusion: Either way, someone will criticize you. Therefore, abandon any search for validation outside of your own head. Be yourself.


 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N7YA on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Hmmm...i would like to be known as a 'coffee radio operator'...it fits this shack nicely!

And remember, all this BS on the internet is only BS on the internet...NOT ONE of these conversations bears fruit, just more internet BS. And the good part, its not radio...its the internet.

If you get on the air, i can almost promise you that you will find a fellow ham/amateur/steak radio operator to talk to. Most of you have legit tickets...use them!


73...Adam, N7YA

(disclaimer; i know my post is useless and will not be taken with anything more than a grain of sand as it lacks anger, drama and reality-tv-ish bickering...but it makes me feel better...if anything i say here is useful to you, i am happy)
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K6LHA on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
K5END posted on 14 Jan 09:

AF6AY: "Why can't hobbies just be for personal enjoyment and stop all this BS about 'professionalism?' Especially using standards and practices that went out of date in the real professional radio world decades ago?"

K5END: "The hobby does not exist without the hobbyist."

Can hobbyists exist without the hobby? :-)
-----------------
K5END: "Hobbyists have varied personalities, and because of the variety of personalities, derive satisfaction from the hobby in different ways."

Hmmm...I thought the General Election campaigning was OVER?!? :-)

A plethora of platitudes does not a discussion make.
-----------------
K5END: "Conclusion: Either way, someone will criticize you. Therefore, abandon any search for validation outside of your own head. Be yourself."

Heh heh...I've been myself for 76 years now. :-)

I still say that the ONLY agency in the USA that decides on a NAME for the amateur radio service is the FCC.

Now if anyone wants a NEW Name, then feel free to send a Petition to the FCC to change the radio service name to something else. Frankly I still don't see what is wrong with "amateur radio" as a name.

On the other hand, there's a whole heaping gob of "professional amateurs" all set to climb all over other amateurs that disturb the imaginary mindsets of those professional amateurs. Are you one of those?

73, Len AF6AY

 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K5END on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
here we go...debates on philosophy. sure, why not.

Why do psychics have conventions?

:-)


Q: Can hobbyists exist without the hobby?
A: Yes. Hobbyists can choose another or create any new hobby, and are not bound by "the" hobby. If the hobbyist chooses to not have a hobby, then the no-hobby enforcement becomes the activity occupying his spare time otherwise spent on a hobby, and therefore his surrogate hobby. Logical conclusion: it is impossible for anyone not on the clock to not have a hobby.

Personally, I collect hobbies.


 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K5END on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Just curious, what is an "imaginary mindset?"

Is that like an "imaginary imagination?"
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by W7ETA on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks for a FUN article.

I vote for Socially Inept Wavers.

Plank's Constants

Ether Eaters

Current Chargers

Regeneration Degenerates

Hole Dopers

Pi Networkers

Emitter Collectors

Ohm's Hombres

Impedance Transformers

Feedback Fomenters

Nocturnal Emissions

Best from Tucson
Bob






73
Bob
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by WB6DGN on January 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"2. Doughnut radio operator"

That must be a policeman? That's what they told me the stick coming out of the top of the HT is for, but the new 800 radios can only hold one doughnut! That's no improvement!
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N7YA on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I hear the Impedance Transformers may make the playoffs this year, that will be tough with all the injuries this season.
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by BHARDIMON on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Here are some suggestions...

Old Men Living In the Past (OMLIP Radio)
Wannabe's With Vests (WWV Operators)
Retired Guys Using Antiquated Technology (RGUAT Hobbyist)
Personal Medical Issue Radio Service (P-MIRS)
Embarrassing Radio Service (ERS)


 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by KA0YKO on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Whenever I am asked about the antennas on my van or the advanced radios in it (which most often happens when the Valvoline guys are changing my oil) I reply that I am...

...a Licensed Radio Operator.

Enough said.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by KC8VWM on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Similarly, there is also an entity known as Amateur Scientists.

http://www.sas.org/

This group of hobbyist / experiminters share many historical similarities to our own.

73 de Charles - KC8VWM



 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
K5END asks: "Just curious, what is an "imaginary mindset?""

I suppose it is defined as a mindset that is at right angles to a real mindset.

K5END: "Is that like an "imaginary imagination?" "

The term you seek is "oxymoron". Here are some others:

Jumbo shrimp

Tight slacks

Nondairy creamer

Defense budget

Microsoft Works



---
73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
K5END asks: "Why do psychics have conventions?

:-) "

Good question! I think the answer is "to give Steven Wright new material..."

(I recall that, in the aftermath of the 1994 Northridge earthquake, a radio DJ called up psychics near the epicenter and asked "Didn't you see that coming?")

Typical Steven Wright line: "I went to the store to by camoflauge clothing. I couldn't find any."

K5END: "Q: Can hobbyists exist without the hobby?
A: Yes. Hobbyists can choose another or create any new hobby, and are not bound by "the" hobby. If the hobbyist chooses to not have a hobby, then the no-hobby enforcement becomes the activity occupying his spare time otherwise spent on a hobby, and therefore his surrogate hobby."

Not exactly. Not having a hobby becomes his actual hobby, not a surrogate. Sort of like the person who says he lies about absolutely everything.

K5END: "Logical conclusion: it is impossible for anyone not on the clock to not have a hobby."

Obviously. The only escape is to have something that is not a hobby where one is always on duty.

Which brings up another question: Is anything that someone does without monetary pay "a hobby"? For the most part, parents of young children aren't paid, and even with other child-care folks are always "on-duty". So is being a parent a hobby?

K5END: "Personally, I collect hobbies."

Collecting things of various kinds (stamps, coins, radios, Morse Code keys, etc.) are hobbies in themselves. So collecting hobbies is a hobby - a meta-hobby, as it were, since the hobby of collecting hobbies cannot exist without hobbies to collect.

Thanks for clearing that up.

However, it is inaccurate to claim that Amateur Radio is "just a hobby", because although unpaid, amateurs do some pretty serious things. One would not refer to a volunteer firefighter as a "hobbyist", even though unpaid. While many if not most radio amateurs do not get involved in things like public-service communications, to describe Amateur Radio as "just a hobby" is highly inaccurate.

Note that nowhere in Part 97 nor in the ITU treaty does the word "hobby" appear.

I think that when you see someone insisting that Amateur Radio is "just a hobby" or "nothing more than a hobby" or some such, what they're really saying is that Amateur Radio shouldn't have any standards. What they really want is a sort of anarchy where anything goes. A ready-made excuse for any and all sloppiness. After all, they argue, what does it matter - "it's only a hobby"

Yet it is precisely in amateur pursuits that standards are most important, because they improve things for everyone.

Consider the amateur golfer. Is it more enjoyable to play golf with others who follow the rules, standards and courtesies of golf, or with those who don't?

Or consider the way people take care of their homes - maintenance, landscaping, etc. People who do it themselves are mostly amateurs. Is it better to live among neighbors who, although amateurs at landscaping, carpentry, housepainting, etc., keep high standards of craftsmanship, or those who adopt the attitude that "it's only a hobby" and do things any old way?

73 de Jim, N2EY

 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AI2IA writes: "I agree with Jim, N2EY, that in so far as colloquial conversation goes, ham radio gets the idea across. It is a fine "everyday" expression. When we want to convey that we are talking about more exact matters in regard to this endeavor, we ought to identify it as "amateur radio." "

Very good point!

I agree with your observations about verbal accuracy and the corrosion of language, too.

But I'm still wondering where the practice of writing "HAM" in all-capitals came from. Ten years ago I never saw it.

AI2IA: "Among members of the family it is okay to call the head of family "Pop." When speaking about him to neighbors and others, you do best to refer to him as your "father.""

I know a family where the father is referred to as "Papa" by some and "Dad" by others.

I agree with your observation about those terms in colloquial conversation and "father" in more formal settings. Makes the point very well.

However, nowadays equating the term "head of family" to "father" can be the start of an argument in some circles....;-)

AI2IA: "If none of this matters to you, that's your choice. If you have an appreciation for good communication, you might go further."

I agree 100%. Sloppy language often leads to sloppy thinking.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by WI7B on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

Where did "HAM" (all captial letters) come from? Look no further than the ARRL...

=> http://www.arrl.org/catalog/?category=&words=sticker

"HAM Oval Sticker -- This Euro-styled oval sticker is a great way to get the word out! Ideal for the bumper or rear window of your car, van or RV (vinyl with adhesive on the back).
#9595 -- $2.00"

73,

---* Ken
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by KA9MJE on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Very interesting article. Considering all the good done by groups such as ARES,SKWARN,MARS,etc.,and the use of the words "Amateur", and "ham", I think both terms should stay as they are now used. If a new word pops into use and goes over well, ok lets use it. The reference to "ham" as a pig should not offend anyone. Did you know that pigs, both wild and domestic, can survive bites by the poisonus snakes here in North America? I read this years ago in the National Geographic. Now, considereing all the 'snakes' we send to Washington D.C., as well as all the state capitals, WHY would we want to give up the term "HAM"? Just wondering.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by W5HTW on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
It is so tiring. People always trying to change amateur radio into a career. People trying to prove that passing a simple hobby test qualifies them as "senior electronic technicians," or "electronic engineers." People thinking a once-upon-a-time technical hobby is grounds for short circuiting a college education. Hey, look, I can pass the Technician test, so I don't need no stinkin' college. I already is an expert in everything.

"Expert Radio Operator" as one person suggested? My god! What is "expert" about pressing a PTT switch? 800,000 cops do it every day, plus truck drivers, delivery dispatchers, fuel oil delivery truckers, EMTs, and a million other people, in the USA alone. Expert Radio Operator? Sad.

Come on, folks. It's a hobby. Let it be that. Here we have recently had two full time emergency managers obtain ham licenses "as part of their job." That's outright wrong. Neither of them had ANY interest in ham radio, and neither of them ever used it. They got the licenses so they could get the federal grant money.

That's garbage. Both have left the position, neither will ever touch an amateur radio, and neither ever did.

This is NOT a professional license. It has nothing to do with career. Get off this bandwagon that is driving ham radio (yeah, I use that term) into oblivion, by trying to make it a career, a Junior G-Man agency of the geds, and a short cut to police, fire or medic work. Let it go back to being "ham radio."

We are not experts in anything, by nature of our license. We are hobbyists, though a few of us sit around waiting and hoping for 'the big one' so we can show how important we are. Get over it! Get back into the hobby and enjoy "ham radio!"

Ed
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by WB2WIK on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name? Reply
by N2EY on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

The term you seek is "oxymoron". Here are some others:

Jumbo shrimp

Tight slacks

Nondairy creamer

Defense budget

Microsoft Works<

::Can't believe you left out the most obvious one:

Military intelligence



WB2WIK/6

 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by W7ETA on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
E-planers

F-layer Troupe

Maxwell's Equaters

Galvanic Galavanters

Biased Resistors

Ground Defaults

Far Field Flaunters






 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by KB0NPW on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
<<<This is NOT a professional license. It has nothing to do with career. Get off this bandwagon that is driving ham radio (yeah, I use that term) into oblivion, by trying to make it a career, a Junior G-Man agency of the geds, and a short cut to police, fire or medic work. Let it go back to being "ham radio."

We are not experts in anything, by nature of our license. We are hobbyists, though a few of us sit around waiting and hoping for 'the big one' so we can show how important we are. Get over it! Get back into the hobby and enjoy "ham radio!">>>

Ed, I couldn't agree more! Very well said!



 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by KB9CRY on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I'd like to see an article discussing the definition of Operator as used in Ham Radio Operator.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K8QV on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I've never seen hobbyists take themselves so seriously.

If you want to be in cutting edge technology, get a degree in a technical field. If you want to really help in emergencies and disasters, study to become an EMT or paramedic. If you want to feel important, do important things. If you want to play radio, take a simple multiple answer quiz.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by TIMEWILLTELL on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
That is exactly the point, thank you for posting that.
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AI2IA on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
This topic and the successfully long thread are a discussion. No one should be annoyed by this. Yes, the subject is an old one and has been tossed around many times, but ....

Every now and then you find some new slant on it. It is interesting to see how many different viewpoints and different motivations appear in the discussion.

I find the observation by Jim,N2EY, very interesting:
"But I'm still wondering where the practice of writing "HAM" in all-capitals came from. Ten years ago I never saw it."

I never paid much attention to this, but in looking over articles I have, there it is. It's a good question.

Also, it is noteworthy how many contributors try to capitalize on the subject to further their personal agendas against emcomm, or to try to put down other hams who feel a great deal of pride in their ham licenses. Hams should feel good about their licenses, but it is a distortion to accuse them of puffing themselves up as degree holders or engineers. Some may be very enthusiastic, but they are not extreme in this. Likewise it is interesting how many comments on the words of other contributors are totally off the mark of what the first contributor said.

Nothing is every really resolved in these threads, but they do give everyone a multiplicity of viewpoints to think about. They also illlustrate how a certain bias can creep into even non-related topics.
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by WN9HJW on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
There are a lot who think that we are "Amatures", not "Amateurs".
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K5END on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
quote, "However, it is inaccurate to claim that Amateur Radio is "just a hobby", because although unpaid, amateurs do some pretty serious things...to describe Amateur Radio as "just a hobby" is highly inaccurate...I think that when you see someone insisting that Amateur Radio is "just a hobby" or "nothing more than a hobby" or some such, what they're really saying is that Amateur Radio shouldn't have any standards."

I agree, and that is more or less what I was trying to say in a facetious way.

You said it, OM. And you said it better than I did.

And yes, collecting hobbies is my "meta-hobby," although I like to think of the paradigm as a sort of "godfather" hobby, with a den of "made" hobbies.
The taxes work out better that way. :-)

 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by W5HLP on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
First - great article. Just an interesting counter example of how something similar was handled. Back in the early 20th century - about the same time the FCC was getting going - the FAA was begining to license pilots. There were pilots who flew for hire and those who flew themselves (and family friends etc). Amateur pilot was deemed both the pilots of the time and the FAA a carrying the wrong connotation, i.e. untrained and unskilled. Certainly there was MORE training for pilots who flew for airlines etc but all were trained and tested. The solution they arrived at is

Pilots flying for personal reasons, without compensation are called "Private Pilots"

Pilots flying for hire, not on scheduled airlines (such things as air taxi, banner towing, instruction, cropdusters) are called "Commercial Pilots"

Pilots flying for airlines (scheduled air service and other ) are call "Air Transport Pilots"

Technically all are pilots and hold either a Private, Commercial or ATP "rating". There's a LOT more detail here but you get the point.

Recently a lower skill level designed to reduce the cost of "getting in the air" has come to being - the "Sport Pilot" - roughly half the training of a Private pilot.

To all the pilots reading this - yes I am making some gross simplifications - just trying to show a different way a similar problem was handled.

73
Herman
W5HLP
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by W5HLP on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
First - great article. Just an interesting counter example of how something similar was handled. Back in the early 20th century - about the same time the FCC was getting going - the FAA was begining to license pilots. There were pilots who flew for hire and those who flew themselves (and family friends etc). Amateur pilot was deemed both the pilots of the time and the FAA a carrying the wrong connotation, i.e. untrained and unskilled. Certainly there was MORE training for pilots who flew for airlines etc but all were trained and tested. The solution they arrived at is

Pilots flying for personal reasons, without compensation are called "Private Pilots"

Pilots flying for hire, not on scheduled airlines (such things as air taxi, banner towing, instruction, cropdusters) are called "Commercial Pilots"

Pilots flying for airlines (scheduled air service and other ) are call "Air Transport Pilots"

Technically all are pilots and hold either a Private, Commercial or ATP "rating". There's a LOT more detail here but you get the point.

Recently a lower skill level designed to reduce the cost of "getting in the air" has come to being - the "Sport Pilot" - roughly half the training of a Private pilot.

To all the pilots reading this - yes I am making some gross simplifications - just trying to show a different way a similar problem was handled.

73
Herman
W5HLP
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by KE5GK on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The average guy on the street doesn't know or care what the term "Amateur Radio" means. Some think it means CB.

When you say "Ham Radio" most get the picture.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K7LRB on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
From one of the early posts: "Yes, words do have change of meaning and the term AMATEUR in our hobby means to me being a part of an elete group of interesting intelagent giving people."

"elete" ? "intelagent" ??

Gotta LOVE IT !!

73,
de Larry
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N7YA on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
K8QV:"I've never seen hobbyists take themselves so seriously.

If you want to be in cutting edge technology, get a degree in a technical field. If you want to really help in emergencies and disasters, study to become an EMT or paramedic. If you want to feel important, do important things. If you want to play radio, take a simple multiple answer quiz."

Thats great!! Perfect...i felt it beared repeating. I took my tests, studied hard, passed all the code tests including that 20 wpm one everyone screams about and now i get to play with my radios...thats what im doing as i write this in fact.

Am i special because of it? Nope. Do i pine for the good old days when a ham (or whatever the hell we decide to call ourselves)could walk down to the beach and the sea would part for him? Nah. I cant rewire the Johnson Space Center even though some of you can, i dont care. I am not the first person the government or stricken communities call when theres an emergency, and i dont care.

Build what you need to build, help when you can, play with your radios and have a good time and for the love of pete, get some self esteem OTHER than a friggin ham ticket! were adults, lets at least try to represent ourselves like that....at least.

Good god, no wonder the jocks always beat the crap out of us in high school!
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by WI7B on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!


I've GOT it!!!

Why not just say we're in a radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by us amateurs/ That is, duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.

I think that sounds perfect, and perfectly defines this one activity we enjoy ;-))

73,

---* Ken
 
RE: Oxymoronic  
by K6LHA on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
WB2WIK posted satirically on 15 Jan 09:

"Can't believe you left out the most obvious one: Military intelligence"

Okay, I'll just put you in the "never served" category. <shrug>

Drop into Fort Huachuca, AZ, check out their M.I. museum.

73, Len AF6AY (ex-RA16408336)
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K6LHA on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
K8QV posted on the Ides of January 2009:

"I've never seen hobbyists take themselves so seriously."

Such SERIOUSNESS never fails to get a chuckle out of me...:-)
.............
K8QV: "If you want to be in cutting edge technology, get a degree in a technical field."

I did that and as a civilian entered the electronics aerospace industry in 1956 armed with a commercial radio license. My education about 'radio' hasn't stopped over the last six decades. <shrug> :-)
.............
K8QV: "If you want to really help in emergencies and disasters, study to become an EMT or paramedic. If you want to feel important, do important things."

In the REAL world that's true enough. Problem is, the hobby exists partly IN the heads of the hobbyists...and we've seen where that leads so many...:-)
.............
K8QV: "If you want to play radio, take a simple multiple answer quiz."

I did that in early 2007. Passed all 3 of them first time around. A few (who had a terrible personal NEED to do so) kept calling me a 'newbie' on HF...after firing up a KW transmitter on HF the first time 55 11/12 years ago. :-)

Ya know, with all this terrible seriousness (not to mention judgemental attitudes of the 'superiors') about nearly everything in this hobby, I'm really and truly wondering if it is all worth the effort? <shrug>

73, Len AF6AY

 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K3ALE on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I'm a beer radio operator. The beer radio service even issued my call!

73
K3ALE
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
K8QV: "I've never seen hobbyists take themselves so seriously."

Then you haven't looked very far....

Consider all those folks who compete in amateur sports who will never make a penny by doing so. They take themselves pretty seriously.

Or the folks who pursue the various arts (theatre, music, painting, scuplture, photography, etc.) on an amateur level. They take themselves pretty seriously too.

Or folks who have pleasure boats, private aircraft used only for pleasure, hunters, fishermen, hiker/backpackers, and other outdoorspeople. They take themselves pretty seriously too.

Think Amateur Radio is expensive? See what sailboats above a certain size cost. Think it takes a lot of time? Try training for a marathon.

What's wrong with taking something seriously even though you're an amateur at it?

K8QV: "If you want to be in cutting edge technology, get a degree in a technical field."

Most people in "technical fields" aren't dealing with "cutting edge" technology. And what's wrong with amateurs doing new things? Should we only use the tried-and-proven, never even trying to push the envelope?

K8QV: "If you want to really help in emergencies and disasters, study to become an EMT or paramedic. If you want to feel important, do important things. If you want to play radio, take a simple multiple answer quiz."

You seem to be saying that Amateur Radio has no role in technology, no role in emergency communications and no role in public service. That we should leave those things to "the professionals" and not even try to do them in Amateur Radio.

I say that's not an accurate view of Amateur Radio.

Now, if *you* only want to do certain parts of Amateur Radio, that's fine. No problem! But please don't say that others who want to do things like technology, public service/emergency communications, etc., shouldn't do those things. They're all part of Amateur Radio, as defined by Part 97.

Isn't radio "an important thing"?

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
Oxymorons  
by N2EY on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
WB2WIK/6 writes: "Military Intelligence"

I didn't forget that one; it's simply too obvious.

Here are some more:

A 12-Ounce Pound Cake

Adult Children

Advanced BASIC

Airline Food

Almost Done, Almost Exactly, Almost Ready

Alone Together

Anxious Patient

Black Light

Blue Bird of Happiness

Boneless Ribs

Books on Tape

Business Ethics

Clean Litter

Compassionate Conservative

Conservative Think Tank

Creation Science

Critical Acclaim

Dodge Ram

Exact Estimate

Extra Virgin (the opposite of "A Little Pregnant")

Holy War

Hot Chili

Last Initial

Liberal Bias

Liquid Crystal

Natural Makeup

New Classic

New Old Stock

New Tradition

Passive Aggression

Plastic Glasses, Plastic Silverware

Pretty Ugly

Private Community

Progressive Conservative

Serious Clown

Synthetic natural gas

Turned Up Missing

Vibrating Ringtone

Work Party

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: Oxymorons  
by K1CJS on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I think you forgot one that rightly belongs to the people trying to think about a 'serious' name to call ourselves and are arguing about it incessantly:

Political intelligence.

That one would cover the 'military intellegence', because, as we can plainly see in the middle east, politics are driving the military moves right now in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Gaza/Israel.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K8QV on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!


"What's wrong with taking something seriously even though you're an amateur at it? "




Actually what I said was I'd never seen hobbyists take THEMSELVES so seriously.

Boaters, runners, stamp collectors and model builders don't fret about which word to officially use to call their hobby. They don't obsess about getting public recognition. They don't whine that their numbers are dwindling and hatch convoluted plans to drag new blood into the fold. They don't aggressively pursue PR opportunities.

They just enjoy their hobbies.

Also, I never said amateurs shouldn't try to innovate technical advances or engage in public service. Just don't pretend that ham radio is what keeps the world spinning.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K6LHA on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N2EY posted on 15 Jan 09:

K8QV: "If you want to be in cutting edge technology, get a degree in a technical field."

N2EY: "Most people in "technical fields" aren't dealing with "cutting edge" technology. And what's wrong with amateurs doing new things? Should we only use the tried-and-proven, never even trying to push the envelope?"

Wow, yeah, "cutting-edge!" Jimmy, look at the January issue of QST. Some real cutting-edge stuff in there like "rebuilding a 1927 regenerative receiver" (uses one of those cutting-edge screen-grid tubes!) or the one on "revisiting [ARC-5] command sets" (two separate articles). Wowee!

1927 was 82 years ago. 1947 (when the first wave of WWII surplus hit the radio market) was 62 years ago. QED.
..............
K8QV: "If you want to really help in emergencies and disasters, study to become an EMT or paramedic. If you want to feel important, do important things. If you want to play radio, take a simple multiple answer quiz."

N2EY: "You seem to be saying that Amateur Radio has no role in technology, no role in emergency communications and no role in public service. That we should leave those things to "the professionals" and not even try to do them in Amateur Radio. I say that's not an accurate view of Amateur Radio."

I say K8QV is VERY CORRECT. How's that? Not a dang thing 'seems' in that statement of mine. Straight-out declaration of opinion. Based on what, you may challenge. Hokay, I've been through three earthquakes with the Northridge quake being severe enough to knock out ALL the electrical power for about 10 million in the local population. No 'hams' rallying to save the populace at around 4:30 AM in darkness of a January morrning. Those nasty old professionals had already built, tested, and drilled the local emergency crews with the latest plans from a new central emergency center. Amazing thing was that it WORKED. Without amateurs. Worse yet, FEMA flew in their new ready-to-go sat terminals and were set up to show video messages for 'health and welfare' information for the populace before the hams were set up. Nothing beats someone seeing a message from friends or family in their own handwriting.

Didn't even need the National Guard even though all sorts of structures were knocked down. Killed about 53 people outright. The utility folks who bore the brunt of restoring services right away already had their professional grade radios and organizations tied in with the emergency teams...managing to rally their workers via regular calls or just by driving up to them (the nasty professional infrastructure "always fails in an Emergency" but during this one it worked just dandy just like in the other two quakes).

Now tell us all the straight skinny on all those 'cutting-edge' developments in amateur radio "leading the way" in the last five decades, Jimmy. I've only been involved with a LOT MORE of 'radio' over the last six decades and I've not seen much that originated with solely amateur efforts. I've named two before but both originated in the UK (P.Martinez, M.Gingell). It was a bit different before WWII but those days are over 60 years in the past.
.................
N2EY: "... But please don't say that others who want to do things like technology, public service/emergency communications, etc., shouldn't do those things. They're all part of Amateur Radio, as defined by Part 97.

No, Jimmy, the ARRL 'defines those things.' The FCC regulations only state what IS POSSIBLE. According to the ARRL the 'amateur community' is some kind of de facto EMCOMM service when all know damn well it is NOT.
.................
N2EY: "Isn't radio "an important thing"?"

What has Jimmy Miccolis, N2EY, DONE to either 'advance the state of the [amateur] radio art' or to provide emergency communications to his community in case of Real Emergency? Ya know, I've never seen a single thing in reference to that in ten years or so watching you repeat the League mantra on 'good works.'

If you think amateur radio is 'life itself' in your importance, then I submit you haven't got your head on straight. Amateur radio is a HOBBY, de facto if not de jure. Enjoy it but don't embellish the activity way beyond reason.

AF6AY
 
RE: Oxymorons  
by K6LHA on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
K1CJS on more satiric commentary on 'military intelligence' posted 15 Jan 09:

"I think you forgot one that rightly belongs to the people trying to think about a 'serious' name to call ourselves and are arguing about it incessantly:"

INTELLIGENCE as a generic word refering to INFORMATION. It does not intrinsically denote DECISIONS using such information done in an intellectually-intelligent manner. [ref: Bush administration of the last 8 years] [see also over 4000 military members killed to 'avenge' the deaths of 3000 on 11 September 2001 in a country that didn't even harbor the Al-Quaeda nor have 'weapons of mass destruction']

Intelligence can be easily over-ridden by the emotionalism of IDEOLOGY. Take the state of USA amateur radio as a good example. For decades it has been under the ideological thumb of a minority of self-styled 'elite' who influenced and caused things to grow over-complex in rules. The number of classes grew until there were 6 and the epitome of amateur operating was considered as skill in on-off keying manual telegraphy...right up to the very end of the previous millennium. The number of NEW license classes granted was shut down to just 3 and - finally - telegraphy testing was eliminated altogether. Too late for modernization and the 'good' of the hobby.

73, Len AF6AY
 
We're definitely amateurs  
by KASSY on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
From the original article:

"An amateur is generally considered a person attached to a particular pursuit, study, or science, without formal training or pay.[1] Conversely, an expert is generally considered a person with extensive knowledge, ability, and/or training in a particular area of study, while a professional is someone who also makes a living from it. Translated from its French origin to the English "lover of", the term "amateur" reflects a voluntary motivation to work as a result of personal passion for a particular activity. "

I would say absolutely we are amateurs, by this definition. We don't get paid, and our training is as informal as it gets.

Before you go spouting off about how well trained we are for emergencies and such, let me ask you this: In the last ARES class you took, how many people failed? It's not good training if it's designed so that everybody passes - it's not really pushed them.

Formal training is training that only allows the better students to carry onward. Last time I looked, ARES lets in anybody who's willing to dedicate lots of time to meetings that are poorly organized. Thus, we fail on the "formal training" part of radio.

The license? Easier than a driver's license. It's just an entry ticket - lets you in the door. It's not a Ph.D. dissertation.

Are we amateurs? Ask the equipment sellers about how much we're willing to pay for our gear. Look at the equipment performance figures viz. commercial gear (especially transmitter distortion). Are we amateur.

I can see no evidence, anywhere, in any of this, that suggests otherwise.

- k
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"What's wrong with taking something seriously even though you're an amateur at it? "

K8QV writes: "Actually what I said was I'd never seen hobbyists take THEMSELVES so seriously."

OK, then.

What's wrong with someone taking themselves seriously even though they're an amateur at something? "

K8QV: "Boaters, runners, stamp collectors and model builders don't fret about which word to officially use to call their hobby."

Really?

Call a serious amateur runner a "jogger" and see what kind of reaction you get, for just one example.

K8QV: "They don't obsess about getting public recognition."

Neither do most hams. What's your point?

K8QV: "They don't whine that their numbers are dwindling and hatch convoluted plans to drag new blood into the fold."

Is it wrong to promote Amateur Radio? Wrong to try to interest folks in "radio for its own sake?"

I don't see what hams are doing as "convoluted plans" nor trying to "drag" people into amateur radio.

Heck, most nonhams don't even know what amateur radio is!

K8QV: "They don't aggressively pursue PR opportunities. They just enjoy their hobbies."

Look at all the publicity sports get, at both the amateur and professional levels, for just one example. They don't have to look for PR, it looks for them!

K8QV: "Also, I never said amateurs shouldn't try to innovate technical advances or engage in public service."

Not directly. But when you call ham radio "a hobby" and say that if someone wants technology, they should pursue a technical field, and similar things, it sure sounds like you want hams to downplay everything but the "hobby" aspect of amateur radio.

K8QV: "Just don't pretend that ham radio is what keeps the world spinning."

I don't see anyone pretending that.

But one thing about today's world is that activities of all kinds don't hide their light under a bushel if they want to survive. They're telling their message to anyone who will listen or look.

Example: Back at the end of August there was a 5 mile run here in Radnor Township (which I entered and ran, btw). Just an amateur road race, no big prizes, most of those who entered were "hobbyists" who had no chance of "winning".

Yet for weeks before the race there were posters for the race everywhere, announcements in the local media, website info, etc. Entrants from prior years could be seen wearing the T-shirts they'd earned. The race itself was covered on the local cable channel. Practically everyone in the area, runners and nonrunners alike, knew about the Radnor Run.

And that was just one small local race. Think about the Boston Marathon, the New York City Marathon and other big races...

There's also the fact that Amateur Radio is a special class of activity because we use a limited public resource. And we get an enormous amount of it, compared to other radio services aimed at the general public.

For example, there's cb. 40/80 channels, AM/SSB only, low power (~5w) and certified equipment only.

FRS/GMRS - A few dozen channels, a few of which are common to both, very limited power, one mode, certified equipment only.

Model radio control has some channels around 70 MHz, limited to 1 watt and small antennas.

The most limited US amateur license has more spectrum, more modes, more power and more freedom than all of the above put together.

If we define Amateur Radio as "just a hobby", we'll wind up as limited as those other services - if we're allowed to exist at all.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by WB6DGN on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Steve,
"Microsoft Works" in your list of oxymorons just amde it worth reading this silly thread. Bits of truth are found in the most unlikely places.
Tom
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2OBM on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Just some random thoughts:
When somebody asks about the call sign plates or antennae, I reply 'I am a 'short wave radio operator'.

I try to practice the 'The Amateur's Code'.
Do you? Do you care?
If you don't try, I really don't give two hoots about your opinion.

I have been in the Army Signal Corps for over 20 years...still learning everyday...my profession?
An honorable profession? Or just a job?
(BTW, this 'amateur radio hobby' sure helped...a lot!)

Anybody see January 09 CQ?
If K3TUP, brilliant man in my opinion, 'is just an amateur'...all of the doctors, who have licenses to PRACTICE medicine, are what?
That's right, just practicing.
Just like lawyers practicing law.

Who said "You get out what you put in."?
Put in zilch...your return equals...zilch.
One would think that with all of these 'negative' posts...more people would quit practicing the art of radio in the amateur radio service. Oh, they are.
Maybe some should quit practicing being ass#01e5!

But that is not human nature...is it?
Blast away at n2obm@hotmail.com
'junk, junk, junk...empty junk folder...click'





 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AI2IA on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Here is a news item reported by MSNBC concerning the State of New Jersey and the cost of a failed government emcomm program. Look at the dollar figures. Now think about amateur radio emcomm. I don't say that ham emcomm is a substitute for state gov't. emcomm, but if this big expensive project failed, and amateur emcomm is available from generous ham volunteers who give of their own time and property, can't we all see a lesson in this? Think about it. It is one reason to be proud of the label "amateur."

"Gov. David Paterson pulled the plug on a delay-ridden $2.1 billion deal that would have provided wireless communication capabilities for state emergency workers.

Thursday's report in The New York Times said the project was originally planned in 2005, and would have connected first responders across the state.

A letter obtained by the Times included a 10-page report that highlighted a variety of shortcomings on the part of M/A-COM, a subsidiary of Tyco Electronics that was assigned the task of building the network.

As the state faces a growing financial crisis, Paterson ended the project, which had already cost the state $50 million, according to the Times report." as reported by MSNBC today
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by KF4HR on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
What's in a name? One hell of a long boring forum subject! Next!
 
Seriously, folks...  
by K6LHA on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N2EY tried to reply to K8QV on 15 Jan 09 with:

K8QV: "They don't whine that their numbers are dwindling and hatch convoluted plans to drag new blood into the fold."

N2EY: "Is it wrong to promote Amateur Radio? Wrong to try to interest folks in "radio for its own sake?""

It is WRONG when the ONLY place you are promoting it is IN amateur radio forums. Wayyyy too limited and the WRONG audience.

It is WRONG when you lose track of what has taken place in the rest of the radio world and still think that manual radiotelegraphy is "the best" then try to convince non-hams that it is truly "the best."

It is WRONG when you put ultimate reliance on a small group from a corner of this country as (supposedly) doing something for the hobby.

It is WRONG when you really Believe the political boilerplate self-PR verbiage from the ARRL is 'truth.'
................
N2EY: "If we define Amateur Radio as "just a hobby", we'll wind up as limited as those other services - if we're allowed to exist at all."

Oh, my, your feelings are hurt? Are you afraid your beloved telegraphy skill is going to disappear? Aren't your friends and neighbors coming over to "admire your station and all its certificates" anymore?

Amateur radio was NEVER more than just a hobby from 1912 onwards. Political language avoids the use of the word 'hobby' in regulatory statements...but USA amateur radio IS a de facto hobby even if not exactly expressed as such de jure.

There's nothing wrong with HOBBIES. Sometimes the hobbyists get too 'serious' about themselves and demand more from others than they have a right to demand.

AF6AY
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AI2IA on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AF6AY you could not be further from the truth if you tried as hard as you could! No, ham radio is not just a hobby and it never was and never will be just a hobby. Here is just a little bit of the reason why:

For 25 years I worked in a world class electronics corporation. In my division we had on the average about 250 engineers. While I was there over those years every single engineer who had helped secure a patent for the company was a licensed amateur radio operator. One of the best laboratory managers in that division was not an engineer. He was responsible for maintaining the administration and logistical support of a huge state of the art electronics laboratory. His practical knowledge of components and RF safety were recognized by top management as essential contributing factors to his outstanding management of the lab over a period of more than twenty years.

Since the earliest days, if you knew radio history, amateurs inspired discovery and invention in wireless. Go look at the biographies of the authors of both amateur radio books and general texts on radio electronics and electronics in general and see for yourself how many of these talented individuals are enthusiastic hams.

Now as to telegraphy, don't you realize that just about every beacon is identified by its call sign in Morse Code? Do you know the value of beacons? Do you know how to use beacons? If you can't read the code, then how do you identify the beacon? Roughly half of our amateur spectrum is designated for CW. If you don't know Morse Code, you only use roughly one half of the spectrum that you could be using if you are a General or Amateur Extra Class (or to some extent for other classes).

Any real ham reading the posts of N2EY on this thread can recognize the words of an experienced and skillful ham operator who has a positive attitude about the amateur radio service. He is not mean spirited in his contributions. He is like the majority of hams who know what amateur radio is about. You on the other hand are a member of a small and unpopular minority.
 
Lecture time by some olde-tymers  
by K6LHA on January 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AI2IA got fed up with certain others, couldn't take it anymore and posted late on the Ides of January 2009:

"AF6AY you could not be further from the truth if you tried as hard as you could! No, ham radio is not just a hobby and it never was and never will be just a hobby. Here is just a little bit of the reason why:"

Knock it off, Mullin. You are old-school HF centric ham-wise. Further more, you have a personality conflict with me. Not my problem...yours.

What YOU have going is YOUR PERCEPTION. Other people have DIFFERENT perceptions. Really. Its possible and those other people (gasp!) might just be MORE 'right' than you. <shrug>
...............
AI2IA: "For 25 years I worked in a world class electronics corporation. In my division we had on the average about 250 engineers. While I was there over those years every single engineer who had helped secure a patent for the company was a licensed amateur radio operator. One of the best..."

So? I've been working in southern California aerospace industry for 52 years now. Try RCA Corporation. The R-W before it became TRW. Hughes Aircraft (HAC made electronics, Hughes Tool Company made aircraft). Gosh, old timer, some of those industries might just be 'world class,' you think? :-)
..............
AI2IA: "Now as to telegraphy, don't you realize that just about every beacon is identified by its call sign in Morse Code?"

Wowee! :-)

AI2IA: "Do you know the value of beacons? Do you know how to use beacons?"

Yes I do. I've navigated flying using them. VOR, TACAN, DME. All of them VHF-UHF. I KNOW about localizer, glideslope and marker beacons, just haven't used them in personal flying. [those three are all VHF]

AI2IA: "If you can't read the code, then how do you identify the beacon?"

By voice ID, by frequency knowing roughly where one has been and rough compass heading. If you check out Aviation Radio Services in Title 47 C.F.R. you will see that VOR-DME frequencies are paired. If you panic then just dial up 121.5 and ask for help. Not a crime to do that. Any flight service station will assist you. GPS works just dandy in any small general aviation aircraft in flight. Sectionals (you KNOW what a 'sectional' is, don't you?) contain all the pertinent data in print and symbolism.

By the way, I learned that over 40 years ago in (civilian) flight school, Skyways at VNY. Me and "one-six right" are well aquainted. :-) [you capice?]

If you think aviators still navigate today by those pre-WWII LF "A-N" beacons, you are grossly ignorant. I haven't checked a sectional in a couple decades so I don't know if any of the old LF ones are left wasting electricity.

I can talk more without notes on Comm and Nav equipment electronics and principles because I've worked INSIDE those for a while. :-)
...............
AI2IA: "Roughly half of our amateur spectrum is designated for CW. If you don't know Morse Code, you only use roughly one half of the spectrum that you could be using if you are a General or Amateur Extra Class (or to some extent for other classes)."

Mullin, WHERE AND WHAT I USE IN amateur radio is MY choice. MINE. YOU do not get to 'tell' me what and where to use it. I KNOW where my Extra license can operate in frequency. It is, and continues to be MY OPTION. ["Option is not a failure."]
................
N2EY: "Any real ham reading the posts of N2EY on this thread can recognize the words of an experienced and skillful ham operator who has a positive attitude about the amateur radio service."

Mullin, I KNOW that guy's behavior and have known it for about a decade on the Internet. I KNOW what motivates him perhaps more than he thinks he does.

AI2IA: "He is not mean spirited in his contributions."

The heck he isn't. N2EY loves to make little TinyURLs known about others he has feuds with. I've never done that. He gets very upset when others challenge his opinions. I am very used to his radio-religious-lecturing. :-)
..................
AI2IA: "You on the other hand are a member of a small and unpopular minority."

Only in your lofty perception of yourself and your judgemental attitude. :-)

From the 'majority attitude' on e-ham it would seem that HF-centric old-school hamme radio is 'supposed to be the rule.' Most of you long-timers are retired. Heh, so am I at 76! [got my first and only USA amateur radio license at age 74]

So you don't PERSONALLY like certain folks attitudes about USA amateur radio. So what? Nothing in the FCC regulations says I must spend my licensee time making YOU happy. Like TS, baby. That's how it goes down... <shrug>

36.5, Len AF6AY
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N2OBM: "I try to practice the 'The Amateur's Code'."

Excellent!

N2OBM: "Do you? Do you care?"

Yes and yes.

N2OBM: "I have been in the Army Signal Corps for over 20 years...still learning everyday...my profession?"

That's excellent too.

N2OBM: "An honorable profession? Or just a job?"

What's the difference (to you) between a profession and a job? To me, the difference is that a profession is a general field of employment (such as being an electrical engineer) while a job is specific employment (working for Southgate Radio Corporation).

N2OBM: "(BTW, this 'amateur radio hobby' sure helped...a lot!)"

I agree 100%!

And while being a ham isn't a necessary prerequisite to a career in a technical field, it has helped many.

N2OBM: "Anybody see January 09 CQ?
If K3TUP, brilliant man in my opinion,"

Yes, he is. There was also an article about him in QST some time back. Fighting cancer with RF; what a concept!

N2OBM: "'is just an amateur'...all of the doctors, who have licenses to PRACTICE medicine, are what?
That's right, just practicing.
Just like lawyers practicing law."

Good point - here's another: Some lawyers, doctors and others do "pro bono" (unpaid) work. When they do so, are they "just hobbyists"?

In my area, and almost certainly in yours, there are people who contribute to the community by working on various commissions, committees, alliances, coalitions and other groups without pay. Are they "just hobbyists"?

N2OBM: "Who said "You get out what you put in."?"

I don't know, but whoever it was said the truth.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AB0WR on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
You can talk all you want about the Amateur Radio Service being a hobby but one of the principles outlined in Part 97.1 for the ARS is:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Sec. 97.1 Basis and purpose.

The rules and regulations in this part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:

(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Most "hobbies" don't have a "fundamental purpose" of producing *experts* in anything. R/C car racing isn't expected to produce a reservoir of "expert auto drivers". Stamp collecting isn't expected to produce a reservoir of "expert engravers". Model rocketry isn't expected to produce a reservoir of "expert astronauts".

While YOU, individually, may not have any specific expectations assigned directly to you as a part of the amateur radio community, that doesn't make the service itself into a "hobby" with no expectations for the level of expertise shown collectively by the amateur radio community.

As someone said earlier, depicting Amateur Radio as "just a hobby" does a total disservice to the amateur radio community as a whole. This phrase of "just a hobby" tends to conflate the ARS with those other pursuits (i.e. golf, kite flying, origami, etc) that do NOT have expectations for the community that enjoys those pursuits.

tim ab0wr
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AB0WR on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AI2IA: "Roughly half of our amateur spectrum is designated for CW. If you don't know Morse Code, you only use roughly one half of the spectrum that you could be using if you are a General or Amateur Extra Class (or to some extent for other classes)."

AF6AY: "Mullin, WHERE AND WHAT I USE IN amateur radio is MY choice. MINE. YOU do not get to 'tell' me what and where to use it. I KNOW where my Extra license can operate in frequency. It is, and continues to be MY OPTION. ["Option is not a failure."] "

You are obfuscating.

AI2IA didn't 'tell' you to use anything. He merely pointed out that you are NOT using 1/2 the spectrum available to you if you don't know Morse Code.

That observation seems to have struck a nerve.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why that is.

tim ab0wr
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by TIMEWILLTELL on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
boy the cockaroches come out when the lights are off.

I am always amazed by the enormous egos in this forum.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by W8MW on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N1OU: Well, Gordon, your article stimulated a whirlwind. Not so much of the available brainpower was spent analyzing the best language pertinent to amateur radio. But, really, using enlightened words to shape public perception ought to follow agreement on strategy. The gentlemanly discussion here reveals there is no such agreement.

However, ARRL is good to go without consensus from groups like this. They established a strategy heavily invested in convincing the public that amateur radio is emergency communications with a bit of fun between disasters. Their PR web page contains this nugget: "The FCC created this "Service" to fill the need for a pool of experts who could provide backup emergency communications." A creative manipulation of the language in Part 97.1 for sure.

Image makers might think it's best that old farts who paid attention to the actual wording of Part 97 will be dropping off leaving new perceptions to become reality unchallenged. Just as a point of interest, the wording of Part 97.1(d) suggests to me that the government might have been thinking about using this pool of experts to help create emergencies for enemies as much as to mitigate our own. This part also hints that amateur radio is meant to be something of an incubator, laboratory and work bench for technical skills in addition to radio operator skills.

I've been licensed since 1962 and in the first three or four decades I don't recall any angst over our public service accomplishments not receiving adequate recognition. Generally, I'd say most amateurs providing services were content simply doing so. I also don't recall childish arguments where amateurs are so antagonistic about their radio activities being much more noble and relevant than the next person's. Most of us were just happy to be able to pursue those activities that interest us most without a need for validation beyond the license itself.

73 Mike W8MW
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by WI7B on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

What defines the Amateur Radio Service, the law - CFR 47,97.3

"(4) Amateur service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio
technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest."

Not one mention of EMCOMM. Nada. Not there boys and girls. EMCOMM is only discussed as one of the many other possible purposes of the service, not what DEFINES the service.

Revealing?

I also noted in the recent number of QST a new strategic ARRL push towards innovation calling on hams to investigate their techniques with an eye to relevant scientific application (Technology to Science). Perhaps this is a response to the cul de sac of a solely 'EMCOMM or DIE' position.

73,

---* Ken
 
Basis and Purpose  
by K6LHA on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AB0WR restated the obvious on January 16, 2009:

"You can talk all you want about the Amateur Radio Service being a hobby but one of the principles outlined in Part 97.1 for the ARS is:
-----------------
Sec. 97.1 Basis and purpose.

The rules and regulations in this part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:

(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts."
------------------
So? After spending a bit over 5 decades legally transmitting RF and designing-building-proving-fielding electronics, I decided to get an amateur radio license. Does that count under 97.1.(d)?

If you want to get PERSONAL then let us do so, but don't disguise it by restating PART of the offical regulations that have been unchanged for decades.
................
AB0WR: "Most "hobbies" don't have a "fundamental purpose" of producing *experts* in anything."

'Most hobbies' do NOT have federal regulations governing their direct activity. <shrug>

It is a law of physics that EM waves will propagate anywhere without regard to man-made political boundaries. Without some regulation of such EM wave emitters, the EM spectrum would be chaos.

To carry a ridiculous non-discussion further, one could argue the word 'expert' to death...or until it morphs into yet-another ambiguous word. :-)
................
AB0WR: "While YOU, individually, may not have any specific expectations assigned directly to you as a part of the amateur radio community, that doesn't make the service itself into a "hobby" with no expectations for the level of expertise shown collectively by the amateur radio community."

'Amateur community?' Where is that located? Got some Grid coordinates for it? Does this 'amateur community' have its own government? My amateur license was granted by the FCC and they have (in my opinion) sufficient regulatory statements about it. In it the FCC gives me lots of OPTIONS on what I can legally do.
................
Anyone who has had experience dealing with (real) government entities ought to know that "political boilerplate" phrases creep into lots of different agency writings. In the case of 97.1 (a) through (e) of Title 47 C.F.R. it is (to me, at least) a rather transparent bit of political boilerplate that is designed to be innocuous, pleasing to some, a sort of first-glance-for-sifting by law clerks working for congresscritters. The Real Serious DEFINITIONS follow that in a mass of terms specifically involving the amateur radio service. That following mass of definitions is for more technical persons, politicians.
.................
AB0WR: "As someone said earlier, depicting Amateur Radio as "just a hobby" does a total disservice to the amateur radio community as a whole."

No, I disagree. It spoils self-perception of those whose egos are overly-inflated with their own desires. It makes those whose entire free time is devoted to the amateur radio way of life feel BAD and MAD. I think the rest of us normal people can just shrug our shoulders and continue with LIFE.

The FCC defines USA amateur radio licenses, not some nebulous 'amateur community.' ARRL can pretend to be 'amateur community' but they are a minority group in terms of membership (less than a quarter of all licensees)...and they favor the long-timer self-styled 'elite.' According to this morning's USA amateur radio license statistics, Technician class alone had 47.7 percent of all individual active licenses, easily over twice as many as General class (the next-largest class).

As far as this e-ham grouping is concerned, most of the outspoken long-timer 'elites' seem to just IGNORE 316,348 Technician class amateurs. They aren't mentioned. The 'elite' don't seem to care about them even if those 'elitists' are only 52.3% of the 'amateur community.' That doesn't sound much like community spirit to me. Sounds more like community divisiveness.

Where is this 'whole' that is only 52.3 percent filled?

73, Len AF6AY

 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
WI7B writes: "What defines the Amateur Radio Service, the law - CFR 47,97.3

"(4) Amateur service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio
technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest."

Not one mention of EMCOMM. Nada. Not there boys and girls. EMCOMM is only discussed as one of the many other possible purposes of the service, not what DEFINES the service."

Basis and Purpose are the reasons the service exists. Public service communications, which includes emergency communications, are part of that.

However, that does NOT mean every amateur must participate in every Basis and Purpose.

WI7B: "I also noted in the recent number of QST a new strategic ARRL push towards innovation calling on hams to investigate their techniques with an eye to relevant scientific application (Technology to Science). Perhaps this is a response to the cul de sac of a solely 'EMCOMM or DIE' position."

I don't think there's ever been an "EMCOMM of DIE" position.

Amateur Radio is really a bunch of different things, not just one thing. And that makes it a bit difficult to nail down, because there's so much to choose from.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
Obfuscation confused with Sarcasm  
by K6LHA on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AB0WR tried to be second-string lecturer on 16 Jan 09 with:

AI2IA: "Roughly half of our amateur spectrum is designated for CW. If you don't know Morse Code, you only use roughly one half of the spectrum that you could be using if you are a General or Amateur Extra Class (or to some extent for other classes)."

AF6AY: "Mullin, WHERE AND WHAT I USE IN amateur radio is MY choice. MINE. YOU do not get to 'tell' me what and where to use it. I KNOW where my Extra license can operate in frequency. It is, and continues to be MY OPTION. ["Option is not a failure."] "

AB0WR: "You are obfuscating."

Nah. Mullin tried to get in my face (again). I just looked him in the eye and told him where to get off. :-)
.............
AI2IA didn't 'tell' you to use anything. He merely pointed out that you are NOT using 1/2 the spectrum available to you if you don't know Morse Code.

AB0WR: "That observation seems to have struck a nerve."

Yes, I suppose it did, especially after having spent over a half century *IN* radio-electronics for a living. :-)

If you really read what I wrote, you will (gasp!) discover that 'all I did' was express a viewpoint on what Part 97, Title 47 C.F.R. allows me as an option in using my amateur radio license IN the USA-allocated amateur bands.

Hello? Nothing in the regs say I "have to" operate on ALL allocated bands using ALL allocated modes. All they say is that I CAN. Legally. OPTIONALLY. Hello?

But...that would spoil a rant, wouldn't it? :-)
.............
AB0WR: "Perhaps you should ask yourself why that is."

Perhaps you should ask yourself WHY you are telling me to ask myself? :-)

In 5 1/2 decades of legally transmitting RF in the EM spectrum from LF to microwaves (25 GHz), I've never been required to use, know, or even have rudimentary skill at OOK CW manual radiotelegraphy. I could personally care less about manual radiotelegraphy. Yet the OPTION is open to me to use it...IFF I want to. Howaboutthat? That's just the way the regulations ARE NOW.

Mullin wanted to drag in that 'eternal' subject of radiotelegraphy into some kind of 'face-off.' WHY? Go ask him, not me. He brought it up.

Ya know, I've never encountered a larger percentage group of LECTURERS on How Things Should BE than in AMATEUR radio forums! Gotta love it (in a perverse way). :-)

36.5, Len AF6AY
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AB0WR writes: "You can talk all you want about the Amateur Radio Service being a hobby but one of the principles outlined in Part 97.1 for the ARS is:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Sec. 97.1 Basis and purpose.

The rules and regulations in this part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:

(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"

That and a lot more that go far beyond the "hobby" aspect.

AB0WR: "Most "hobbies" don't have a "fundamental purpose" of producing *experts* in anything. R/C car racing isn't expected to produce a reservoir of "expert auto drivers". Stamp collecting isn't expected to produce a reservoir of "expert engravers". Model rocketry isn't expected to produce a reservoir of "expert astronauts"."

Exactly! Note also that while there are frequencies reserved for "hobby radio" such as R/C, they are extremely limited and regulated compared to Amateur Radio.

AB0WR: "While YOU, individually, may not have any specific expectations assigned directly to you as a part of the amateur radio community, that doesn't make the service itself into a "hobby" with no expectations for the level of expertise shown collectively by the amateur radio community."

Agreed, but there's a lot more to it.

AB0WR: "As someone said earlier, depicting Amateur Radio as "just a hobby" does a total disservice to the amateur radio community as a whole."

I think it was me who said that.

AB0WR: "This phrase of "just a hobby" tends to conflate the ARS with those other pursuits (i.e. golf, kite flying, origami, etc) that do NOT have expectations for the community that enjoys those pursuits."

Now for the "lot more".

If we define Amateur Radio as "just a hobby" or "nothing more than a hobby" or some such, we do indeed do a total disservice to those who do public service comms, education, technical experimentation, etc. We also leave ourselves wide open to being gradually regulated out of existence.

For example, consider the problems of BPL and other interference-generators like poorly designed electronics, power lines, etc. If Amateur Radio is "nothing more than a hobby", why should the PROFESSIONALS who designed and operate those interference-generators have to clean up their act to please some "hobbyists"?

Or consider those who would unreasonably restrict antennas - often to the point that a simple wire dipole or vertical in the back yard isn't allowed, let alone a tower. If Amateur Radio is "nothing more than a hobby", why should the neighbors or regulators have to accomodate some "hobbyists"? After all, a lot of hobbies are effectively banned from most communities. For example, most residential areas won't let you have a horse or other large animal on a lot smaller than several acres and zoned "agricultural" - if you want those animals as pets or a hobby, you have to keep them in specific places.

There are lots of other examples. More and more states are banning the use of cell phones by a driver, or requiring only hands-free operation. If that's OK, why should "hobbyists" even be allowed to have 2-way radios in their cars?

Go to many public parks and you'll often see bans on things like kite-flying, model rockets, etc. The folks who like those things have to search hard for places to do them, because they're "just a hobby" and the parks don't have to accomodate them.

If Amateur Radio is "just a hobby", why should we be allowed 1500 watts - isn't 15 watts enough? Why should we be allowed so many bands and modes - aren't a few dozen channels enough? Why should we be experimenting, building, etc. - isn't store-bought, professionally-made certified equipment enough?

See where "just a hobby" leads?

The plain and simple fact is that Amateur Radio isn't "just a hobby" or "nothing more than a hobby". That doesn't mean every radio amateur must participate in any specific activity! But it does mean that there's more to Amateur Radio than just the hobby aspect.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AI2IA on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
All it takes to evaporate the silly notion that amateur radio is a mere hobby is a look through the many fine books on the history of wireless from its beginnings to the present day. Poof! The silly hobbly notion is gone!

As for Morse Code, well, that does indeed seem to hit a very sore and sensitive spot on some folks, but that needn't be the case. It is beyond reasonable doubt that for those who are so motivated to learn and use Morse Code that their enjoyment and skill in amateur radio will increase. Now I do not happen to be one of those who advocate the re-establishment of a Morse Requirement. Quite the contray, I believe in setting Morse Code free to stand along the other modes such as SSB, TV, FM, digital, but Morse is very useful in identifying and using beacons, in QRP endeavors, when propagation conditions are bad, and in some emergency situations, and it is an established fact that just about half the amateur spectrum is designated for CW. Why not go ahead and learn it and use it? My! The howls we get from some on this harmless point. Surely, if it upsets you so much, rather than make yourself sick over it, simply stay away from it. Many careers have been helped by ham radio, and many ham radio improvements have come about from related careers. I venture that a higher number of patent holders are hams than folks who have some other single outside endeavor. Don't demand that I prove it, its just my conjecture base upon my years of occupation, and this is not a court, and you are not a judge, but I am confident on it being in that direction. Add to all of this the number of hams who have helped to save lives by their use of ham radio. So, no, angry man, most will agree that ham radio is more than a hobby. Why fight it when it is so very obvious? You look very silly doing that.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by WI7B on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

"Many careers have been helped by ham radio, and many ham radio improvements have come about from related careers." - AI2IA

Perhaps this is one career that might support your claim, although it seemed headed for a career in crime through felonious trespass and theft...

"Up to the time when we had about thirty-six stations on the line, we had gotten along fine as far as juice was concerned. I had all the batteries in my cellar-- eighty-three gravity cells. But, the question of juice was fast becoming a serious problem, as we needed more power to overcome the great resistance of our poor line, and instruments. We had a meeting one night, and after long deliberation, decided we would have to get a dynamo, or something.

After the meeting disbanded, I called three or four of the fellows into conference--Conspiracy is what one girl called it--and told them that I intended to borrow some juice from a certain wire down on the corner. At first, they thought I was talking nonsense, but I finally impressed them that I was in earnest.

Bright and early one morning, I got up and ran the wire down to the corner. I ran in a twisted telephone line, and put it up on real insulators, so that it looked exactly like a real telephone line. Of course when I came to our point where the tap was to be made, I continued the wire on up the street, so that it would not look as though it had stopped, and would throw any pursuer off the track. The line was run on telephone poles about ten feet above the wire we were going to tap, which also ran along the same line of poles. Being a good pole climber, I put on my belt and spikes, and started up the pole on which I had previously strung our line. When I got to the "feed wire", I took out some fine magnet wire, and wrapped it around the feed wire, then I carefully cut a slit in the wooden pole ten feet up to where our line was, and made fast to our line. I laid the magnet wire in the slit I had cut, and covered it all over with putty.

It would have taken a greater detective than Sherlock Holmes to ever dig that tap up, or discover it. The fact is proven by the knowledge that we had the juice coming from this source for two years."

QST, February, 1917, page 8: "Amateur Number One" By Irving Vermilya

73,

---* Ken
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AB0WR on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AF6AY: "So? After spending a bit over 5 decades legally transmitting RF and designing-building-proving-fielding electronics, I decided to get an amateur radio license. Does that count under 97.1.(d)?"

I'll repeat:

While YOU, individually, may not have any specific expectations assigned directly to you as a part of the amateur radio community, that doesn't make the service itself into a "hobby" with no expectations for the level of expertise shown collectively by the amateur radio community.

Why do you feel it is necessaary to turn what *you* do into the definition of what 97.1(d) is speaking of?



AF6A^: "If you want to get PERSONAL then let us do so, but don't disguise it by restating PART of the offical regulations that have been unchanged for decades."

Personal? I said nothing about you personally. Your perception that I did say something personal about you tells us a lot, however.

tim ab0wr
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AB0WR on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AB0WR: "Most "hobbies" don't have a "fundamental purpose" of producing *experts* in anything."

AF6AY: "'Most hobbies' do NOT have federal regulations governing their direct activity. <shrug>"

Shrug? You made no point here at all! If most hobbies don't have federal regulations governing their direct activity, with the specific purpose of developing a pool of experts, *that alone* points out how amateur radio is not "just a hobby"!

AF6AY: "It is a law of physics that EM waves will propagate anywhere without regard to man-made political boundaries. Without some regulation of such EM wave emitters, the EM spectrum would be chaos."

So what? This is supposed to prove something? Part 15 transmitters are regulated too, but not with the purpose of developing a pool of experts.

You are throwing out red herrings against the wall hoping something will stick.

tim ab0wr
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AB0WR on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AF6AY: "To carry a ridiculous non-discussion further, one could argue the word 'expert' to death...or until it morphs into yet-another ambiguous word. :-)"

ROFL!! No one is trying to define or "redefine" what an expert is -- except perhaps you.


AB0WR: "While YOU, individually, may not have any specific expectations assigned directly to you as a part of the amateur radio community, that doesn't make the service itself into a "hobby" with no expectations for the level of expertise shown collectively by the amateur radio community."

AF6AY: "'Amateur community?' Where is that located? Got some Grid coordinates for it? Does this 'amateur community' have its own government? My amateur license was granted by the FCC and they have (in my opinion) sufficient regulatory statements about it. In it the FCC gives me lots of OPTIONS on what I can legally do."

Again, a red herring. What you can "legally do" has no bearing on what the expectations are for the service.

Definition of community: "a unified body of individuals". "a body of persons of common and especially professional interests scattered through a larger society <the academic community>"

Play dumb if you want. It's a poor way to make a point.

tim ab0wr
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AB0WR on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AF6AY: "Anyone who has had experience dealing with (real) government entities ought to know that "political boilerplate" phrases creep into lots of different agency writings. In the case of 97.1 (a) through (e) of Title 47 C.F.R. it is (to me, at least) a rather transparent bit of political boilerplate that is designed to be innocuous, pleasing to some, a sort of first-glance-for-sifting by law clerks working for congresscritters. The Real Serious DEFINITIONS follow that in a mass of terms specifically involving the amateur radio service. That following mass of definitions is for more technical persons, politicians."

Political boilerplate?

"(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts." is political boilerplate?

You are equivocating. You are trying to change the meaning of a phrase hoping no one will notice.

This terminology doesn't appear *ANYWHERE* in any federal regulations I know of except in that ssociated with amateur radio.

Boilerplate is a phrase or body of text used verbatim in different documents such as a signature at the end of a letter.

This is *NOT* boilerplate. It is *NOT* meant to be innocuous.

You are still throwing c**p against the wall hoping something will stick. All you are doing is getting yourself dirty.

tim ab0wr
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by AB0WR on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AB0WR: "As someone said earlier, depicting Amateur Radio as "just a hobby" does a total disservice to the amateur radio community as a whole."

AF6AY: "No, I disagree. It spoils self-perception of those whose egos are overly-inflated with their own desires. It makes those whose entire free time is
devoted to the amateur radio way of life feel BAD and MAD. I think the rest of us normal people can just shrug our shoulders and continue with LIFE.""

Malarky. What 97.1 says has nothing to do with anyone's ego. All you've been able to do is try to dismiss it as political boilerplate when it is obvious that it is not boilerplate.



AF6AY: "The FCC defines USA amateur radio licenses, not some nebulous 'amateur community.'"

More malarky. The USA amateur radio community is made up of USA amateur radio license holders.

You are still equivocating hoping no one will notice.

AF6AY: "ARRL can pretend to be 'amateur community' ..... General class (the next-largest class)."

This is a strawman you have made up in order to have something to beat to death. The ARRL doesn't determine what the amateur radio community is.

AF6AY: "As far as this e-ham grouping is concerned, most of the outspoken long-timer 'elites' seem to just IGNORE 316,348 Technician class amateurs. They aren't mentioned. The 'elite' don't seem to care about them even if those 'elitists' are only 52.3% of the 'amateur community.' That doesn't sound much like community spirit to me. Sounds more like community divisiveness.

Where is this 'whole' that is only 52.3 percent filled?"

Another strawman. Is this your typical method of argument?

tim ab0wr
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AI2IA writes: "Since the earliest days, if you knew radio history, amateurs inspired discovery and invention in wireless. Go look at the biographies of the authors of both amateur radio books and general texts on radio electronics and electronics in general and see for yourself how many of these talented individuals are enthusiastic hams."

That pattern continues to the present day. It's part of the Basis and Purpose of Amateur Radio.

Now, that doesn't mean that every talented person in electronics and related fields is, or started out as, a radio amateur. IOW, it's not a prerequisite. But to say amateur radio has had no effect on getting people into technical fields is just plain inaccurate.

AI2IA: "Roughly half of our amateur spectrum is designated for CW."

Well, actually not.

With the exception of the 5 USB channels on 60 meters and the 219-220 MHz data segment, Morse Code/CW can be used on all US amateur frequencies. Of course, on HF, most US amateur Morse Code operation occurs on the band segments where voice modes aren't allowed. On 160 and above 30 MHz, most amateur Morse Code operation occurs in specific parts of the bands, by gentleman's agreement.

AI2IA: "If you don't know Morse Code, you only use roughly one half of the spectrum that you could be using if you are a General or Amateur Extra Class (or to some extent for other classes)."

Ah, I see your point now. By ignoring Morse Code operation, a ham misses a lot of opportunities.

AI2IA: "Any real ham reading the posts of N2EY on this thread can recognize the words of an experienced and skillful ham operator who has a positive attitude about the amateur radio service. He is not mean spirited in his contributions. He is like the majority of hams who know what amateur radio is about."

Thank you!

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
BRUCE JONES AND THE FAKE SHOE!  
by PLANKEYE on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
THIS IS K8QV:

I've never seen hobbyists take themselves so seriously.

If you want to be in cutting edge technology, get a degree in a technical field. If you want to really help in emergencies and disasters, study to become an EMT or paramedic. If you want to feel important, do important things. If you want to play radio, take a simple multiple answer quiz.

________________________

PLANKEYE:

I like this post that K8QV made!

Most reasonable people know that this is a hobby.



PLANKEYE
















 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K6LHA on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
W8MW posted something interesting on 16 Jan 09:

N1OU: Well, Gordon, your article stimulated a whirlwind. Not so much of the available brainpower was spent analyzing the best language pertinent to amateur radio. But, really, using enlightened words to shape public perception ought to follow agreement on strategy. The gentlemanly discussion here reveals there is no such agreement.

W8MW: "However, ARRL is good to go without consensus from groups like this. They established a strategy heavily invested in convincing the public that amateur radio is emergency communications with a bit of fun between disasters. Their PR web page contains this nugget: "The FCC created this "Service" to fill the need for a pool of experts who could provide backup emergency communications." A creative manipulation of the language in Part 97.1 for sure."

Heh heh heh. I have to agree with that. The League is very GOOD on spin that favors those distinguished gentlemen of the northeast. It is 'psywar' tactics done very very well. :-)

Anyone even casually visiting the Piper Center in downtown Los Angeles could get a glimpse of a huge variety of communications equipment at the disposal of the area's PDs and other public safety agencies. Utilities, businesses, even some large chain stores have their own radios that can be pressed into service (and have been). There are also hundreds of circuit connections for all types of fast-data messaging belonging to corporations that could be enlisted. That's a part of the 'infrastructure' that few mention, perhaps out of ignorance of their existance. Reliance on the hit-or-miss communications of radio amateurs pales by comparison.
.............
W8MN: "Image makers might think it's best that old farts who paid attention to the actual wording of Part 97 will be dropping off leaving new perceptions to become reality unchallenged."

Good one! :-) But, the ARRL caters to the old farts since those are the ones with money. The League NEEDS more cash inflow. Their begging continues.
.............
W8MN; "Just as a point of interest, the wording of Part 97.1(d) suggests to me that the government might have been thinking about using this pool of experts to help create emergencies for enemies as much as to mitigate our own."

I'll think about that over a shot of wry. :-)

W8MN: "This part also hints that amateur radio is meant to be something of an incubator, laboratory and work bench for technical skills in addition to radio operator skills."

I put it into typical political boilerplate phrasing category, but then that's my viewpoint. If one gets into amateur radio as a young teenager, that phrasing sounds very good, noble, etc. If one enters as an adult with some real experience in radio communications, it looks more and more like a political phrase.
.............
W8MN: "I've been licensed since 1962 and in the first three or four decades I don't recall any angst over our public service accomplishments not receiving adequate recognition."

I first got acquainted with 'radio' in 1947...for radio control, not communications. Courtesy of the US Army I got a FAR GREATER exposure than most. Changing my career field after active duty, I've kept aware and informed on as much of the electronics (and radio) industry news as one can handle. I've seen lots and lots of nice-nice letter exchanges between differing public service agencies but damn little actual WORK done for any sort of emergency communications with one exception in my experience.

The Los Angeles Fire Department had a number of old firehouses that were not razed after newer, bigger firehouses replaced them. Those old ones were largely unused. At a time after the big Northridge earthquake here, those old firehouses became base stations for an L.A. emergency communications service that was integrated into the County emergency communications system, supported by the LAFD. "Old Firehouse 77" a mile and a half from my house, across the street from a large food supermarket has an HF to VHF base along with a mobile station (a converted old school bus) that can roll at any time. That old firehouse still has room for small community affairs, including periodic amateur radio radio license examination testing. That is NOT widely publicized in public press. It is known only because of L.A. once being a hub of aerospace electronics activity and '6-land' still having the largest number of amateur radio licensees as well as tens of thousands of electronics workers not having amateur radio licenses.

At the time of the Northridge earthquake, there wasn't any real cooperation between the many amateur radio clubs in this mega-city with that emergency center coordination control. The control center was operational before the January 1994 earthquake and functioned well. As far as I could tell, any sort of amateur emergency activities then didn't occur until two days after the quake. FEMA reacted within a day. Most electrical power that was cut off for 10 million users was mostly restored by that afternoon, thanks to the professionals who undertook a 'black start' of nearly all electric grids and the hard-working utility people. Hospitals and public safety services had their own electric generators, had backup of leased, unswitched telephone lines for alerts, alarms, ever present in the FD system here.

Strangely, the ARRL never reported much about that emergency communications effort, probably because the professionals built it and performed it. It is a 'west coast' thing and easterners don't care much what happens out here. The underground communications control center has been featured on TV, both on PBS and Discovery channels. Amateur radio involvement was never a part of either program.
.................
W8MN: "I also don't recall childish arguments where amateurs are so antagonistic about their radio activities being much more noble and relevant than the next person's."

In the last half century I've heard dozens of such discussions and stayed out of them. One includes two men, presumably hams, who had been in a (now-moved) HRO store in Burbank, CA. I judged them ready to fight one another in the parking lot over some personal dispute. They disengaged when a mini-mall store owner hollered to them that the BPD were near and dropping in. Maybe it wasn't about EMCOMM. I didn't care.
.................
W8MN: "Most of us were just happy to be able to pursue those activities that interest us most without a need for validation beyond the license itself."

That's the way I see it and do it! At 76 I'm not going to pretend being any radio-active Paul Revere or wannabe. I've done my volunteering in the military during a time of shooting war in northeast Asia...USING radio.

73, Len AF6AY
 
The 52 Percent Solution that is 100 Percent?  
by K6LHA on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AB0WR in a general mode of NON-discussion posted on 16 Jan 09:

"Malarky. What 97.1 says has nothing to do with anyone's ego. All you've been able to do is try to dismiss it as political boilerplate when it is obvious that it is not boilerplate."

"You are still equivocating hoping no one will notice."

"This is a strawman you have made up in order to have something to beat to death. The ARRL doesn't determine what the amateur radio community is."

"Another strawman. Is this your typical method of argument?"

Tsk, tsk, tsk, Tim. You really don't want to discuss anything contrary to your (overly) high opinion of amateur radio...which is supposedly 'not just a hobby.' :-)

There are many sides to contentious issues. WE (supposedly the 'amateur community') don't all see things the same way you do. NOT the fault of us WE, Tim. Sit back, relapse, think about things. With enough years of exposure you MIGHT reach a different opinion. Or maybe not... :-)

36.5, Len AF6AY
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by W6RMK on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N2EY (and others) wrote:
N2EY Wrote: "The term "professional" really means "does for money" and does not necessarily mean something done at the highest level."

G3RZP replied: "That is unfortunately so true, in many walks of life."

Yep. And yet, the term "professional" is held up by some as if it is some form of magic talisman meaning "better", when all it really means is "does it for pay".


---

Maybe another distinction is "liable for the results of mistakes".. as a Professional Engineer (aside from the other licensure requirements) one is putting more than one's reputation on the line when signing and sealing a report or drawing.

Historically (not necessarily today), I think amateurs were held to a lower standard of liability responsibility. That is, since there was no intent to make money from the activity, it was reasonable to not impute losses when a mistake is made. Maybe this ties into "professional responsibility"?

There's no question about "you get what you pay for".. if your comm system depends on the kindness of strangers (i.e. amateurs) that's a very different matter than one depending on paid toilers. The expectations, legal and otherwise, of "availability" or "quality of service" (in the networking sense) are very different.

Certainly, if you wind up testifying under oath in a legal dispute, there's a HUGE difference in perception between being a professional and an amateur, no matter what the knowledge level is. The fact that someone is "paid" to do something implies that someone else has made a value decision about the worth of the services provided. (Rarely are you asked whether you actually are "successful" as a professional, which would be the real test, at least of your marketing skills.)
Jim
 
PRETZEL  
by PLANKEYE on January 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AF6AY SPEAKS:

Another thing interesting is that SO FEW in here really care about the future of amateur radio in the USA. Their general concept of an amateur radio 'future' is enclosed only with their own personal ways of being in the hobby...never mind what others want, they have theirs, so #$%! everyone else. :-)

Merry Christmas every one, Len AF6AY

__________________________________

PLANKEYE:

SO FEW in here really care about the future of Amateur radio.

Are you one of them Len?

Are you one of the Few that really Cares?

That's a Straight Up Question!

Care to answer it?




PLANKEYE
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on January 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
W6RMK writes: "Maybe another distinction is "liable for the results of mistakes".. as a Professional Engineer (aside from the other licensure requirements) one is putting more than one's reputation on the line when signing and sealing a report or drawing."

That's true. But what makes someone a Professional Engineer, or P.E., is being licensed by the government as being competent in a particular field or fields. The same situation holds true for some other fields requiring licensing, such as health care and law. And in all those fields it is standard procedure to carry malpractice insurance. (That's one reason work done by such people costs more).

But there is a world of difference between someone who is a licensed Professional Engineer and someone who tosses the words "professional" (or "PROFESSSIONAL") and "engineer" around because they got paid to do something.

This may seem like a bit of semantics but it's an important legal point. For example, a person is paid to collect trash may call himself a "professional sanitation engineer", and by the strict dictionary definition, they're right. But if a someone without a PE license calls himself/herself a "Professional Engineer", s/he can be held legally accountable. The same goes for a number of fields where licensing is required, such as law and health care.

I know quite a few Professional Engineers (with PE license, stamp, etc.). I also know quite a few engineers who don't have a PE license but who have extensive credentials of education and experience. None of them that are worth the time of day make a big deal about their qualifications, experience, accomplishments, etc., as professionals when discussing amateur pursuits. In fact, it's an inverse relationship: The ones with the best credentials say the least about them.

W6RMK: "Historically (not necessarily today), I think amateurs were held to a lower standard of liability responsibility. That is, since there was no intent to make money from the activity, it was reasonable to not impute losses when a mistake is made. Maybe this ties into "professional responsibility"?"

What activities could a radio amateur do (as a ham) which would cause losses to others? The only ones I can think of are things like antenna structure malfunctions ("your tower fell over on my car") and and fire hazards. Both come under the same liabilities as anyone else in a similar situation. Being a radio amateur does not protect one from liability.

I suppose that if a radio amateur exposed others to RF levels in excess of those specified in the regulations, s/he could be liable. But I don't know if anyone has ever had to deal with that. RF safety regulations actually protect the radio amateur because they form the baseline of safety.

W6RMK: "There's no question about "you get what you pay for".. if your comm system depends on the kindness of strangers (i.e. amateurs) that's a very different matter than one depending on paid toilers. The expectations, legal and otherwise, of "availability" or "quality of service" (in the networking sense) are very different."

Well, yes and no.

Look at how the "PROFESSIONALS" handled Hurricane Katrina. I don't think the taxpayers got what they paid for in that case!

Paying professionals is no absolute guarantee of quality work.

W6RMK: "Certainly, if you wind up testifying under oath in a legal dispute, there's a HUGE difference in perception between being a professional and an amateur, no matter what the knowledge level is."

But how often are "professionals" who are not licensed Professionals (such as P.E.s, M.D.s, lawyers, etc.) called upon to testify in such situations?

W6RMK: "The fact that someone is "paid" to do something implies that someone else has made a value decision about the worth of the services provided.

Again, yes and no. In many cases the decision is made before the services are rendered. Such decisions aren't always right!

W6RMK: "(Rarely are you asked whether you actually are "successful" as a professional, which would be the real test, at least of your marketing skills.)"

The problem with "success" is simple: Who defines success, and by what standard?

If A makes more money than B, does that mean A's opinions should be accepted and B's discarded?

How about if A has more experience than B? Or if A has degrees from major universities and B doesn't?

Who is more successful?

73 de Jim, N2EY


 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on January 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N2EY asked: "Where did "HAM" (all captial letters) come from?"

WI7B replied: " Look no further than the ARRL...

=> http://www.arrl.org/catalog/?category=&words=sticker

"HAM Oval Sticker -- This Euro-styled oval sticker is a great way to get the word out! Ideal for the bumper or rear window of your car, van or RV (vinyl with adhesive on the back).
#9595 -- $2.00"

No, that can't be it. (Gotta get me one of them, though - thanks for the pointer!)

That sticker is pretty new, and obscure. It's based on the recent trend of similar stickers.

But the use of all-caps "HAM" online has been going on for a lot longer.

73 es TNX de Jim, N2EY

 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2RRA on January 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Taken from ARRL!

"Ham: a poor operator. A 'plug.'"

"That's the definition of the word given in G. M. Dodge's The Telegraph Instructor even before radio. The definition has never changed in wire telegraphy. The first wireless operators were landline telegraphers who left their offices to go to sea or to man the coastal stations. They brought with them their language and much of the tradition of their older profession.

In those early days, spark was king and every station occupied the same wavelength--or, more accurately perhaps, every station occupied the whole spectrum with its broad spark signal. Government stations, ships, coastal stations and the increasingly numerous amateur operators all competed for time and signal supremacy in each other's receivers. Many of the amateur stations were very powerful. Two amateurs, working across town, could effectively jam all the other operators in the area. When this happened, frustrated commercial operators would call the ship whose weaker signals had been blotted out by the amateurs and say "SRI OM THOSE #&$!@ HAMS ARE JAMMING YOU."

Amateurs, possibly unfamiliar with the real meaning of the term, picked it up and applied it to themselves in true "Yankee Doodle" fashion and wore it with pride. As the years advanced, the original meaning has completely disappeared."

As K0BG mentioned I too never liked the term "HAM OPERATOR" for a number of reason other than the true definition.

That's why I always refer to us as Amateur Radio Operators!

73!


 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on January 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
K5END writes: "Name a sport or contesting activity where the player must facilitate his "opponent's" scoring of points in order to score his own points."

You know, I've thought about this for quite a bit, and I can't name one!

Then there's this:

"Name a sport or contesting activity where increasing the number and capabilities of other competitors can serve to increase the score of any and all competitors."

73 de Jim, N2EY

 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by W4DDR on January 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The title of professional only has value when it is assigned to us by others and not ourselves. It is a title of respect that has to be earned.

We earn it by always doing the best we can at what we do, by constantly working to be even better the next time, and by doing it with the utmost grace, style, and civility.
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by WB8DTJ on January 19, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Very nicely done. I have been in amateur radio since 1969. I have built equipment and operated CW. Organizations I belonged to have engaged in providing emergency communication for our community when the normal channels were unavailable.

We were active in the community, providing communications for annual parades and other similar evnets. Once we even assisted the Secret Service, supplimenting their system when it proved to be inadequate.

I have been called an amateur operator and a ham. I don't care what you call me, just call when the need arises. I'll be there.

73s
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by NO6L on January 19, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Food for thought"? What?

Why even write an article about this, it's irrelevant. It's like presenting Celebrity News, gossip, as a world shaking event, which is what most mainstream TV news has turned into, celebrity gossip shows.

Just look at the definitions presented. According to the first, the PRIMARY definition, there is not a question, "Amateur Radio" IS properly named. Why even be concerned with the second definition. It is a *non-issue* owing to the way the word "amateur" is applied and by whom, us.

What is the purpose of this article? To change it? To what? Is the name too long? So what if "Amateur Radio" is a mouthful compared to "Ham" for example, big deal. Does every word in the English Language HAVE to change definitions? Just because "gay" went from "happy" to "homosexual" and more recently in some circles, "low-brow" or "classles" doesn't mean "Amateur" has to change, too. Does it? It's very simple, if you don't want it to change, don't let it.

If you want to change something, dump "ham" to describe Amateur Radio. Somehow a particular cut of smoked pork does not accurately define what we do. If someone asks if you're a Ham, simply say, "A ham is half a hogs ass, I'm a Radio Amateur (or Amateur Radio operator)". In a humorous and friendly fashion, of course. That's what I do. It puts them at ease, they'll respect you for taking a stand and you'll never be called a "ham" by them again.

Three for the price of one! Ya' can't beat that deal.
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on January 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
W4DDR writes:

"The title of professional only has value when it is assigned to us by others and not ourselves. It is a title of respect that has to be earned."

Excellent! I agree 100%. You made reading this whole thread worthwhile.

W4DDR: "We earn it by always doing the best we can at what we do, by constantly working to be even better the next time, and by doing it with the utmost grace, style, and civility."

By that definition, there are lots of amateur radio operators who are professionals even if they never get a penny for what they do.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by KL7IPV on January 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I don't mind being known as an "amateur", for it isn't the title that earns me recognition it is how I act when I use the radios. Amateur Radio for me is not conducted like I am an amateur operator. On the air professionalism is what sets us apart from other types of operators. For over 40 years I have believed that and still do.
Frank
 
RE: What's In A Name? An important matter.  
by AD7VH on January 30, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I prefer the term HAM. I cannot tell you how many times that I have had to explain that an amateur radio operator has the knowledge, but does not receive pay when using amateur radio.

So many people do not know that we are more than an idiot with a radio -- well, some of us anyway. I get so tired of explaining that amateur only means without pay.

Heck, the super-dupper radio dude that does the work on the UHF two-way where I work doesn't have a clue about amateur radio. He gets paid (a pro, yeah right) to do what he does, and I had to tell somebody above him what a cavity filter is so that the repeater would quit having problems with intermod. Just another example of a pro that doesn't possess the knowledge. Our repeater system is still plagued with problems, which I have just gave up trying to help, since I am not taken serious as I am just a lowly old amateur!

John, AD7VH
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by K7NA on January 31, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
If we're going to play around with what we're called, how about "Amateur Communications Executives"? It has a more "professional" ring to it, no? Or, "Amateur Communications Engineer" or if you don't like that, "Amateur Communications Technician"?

Maybe "Amateur Radio Operator" is better after all.

Vince
K7NA
 
Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N8YB on January 31, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The Ark was built by amateurs.

The Titanic was built by professionals.

 
RE: Are We Amateurs -- What's In A Name?  
by N2EY on February 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"The Ark was built by amateurs.

The Titanic was built by professionals."

The problem wasn't the construction; it was the operation.

73 de Jim, N2EY

 
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