Aren't We All In This Together?
Terry Deuel (KE7OSV)
on
March 8, 2009
View comments about this article!
Hello, And thanks for looking at this article. As a fairly new ham (licensed approximately 18 months now) I am disturbed at the less than enthusiastic welcome that I received from many of the "Older Hams." I don't mean anything that has been aimed at me directly... I mean, as a new ham.
I am in that category, and it seems, we (new hams) even though we may have the title of General, are not considered to be "real hams", by many of the "older hams". We are not given the same level of respect that a real General of many years would receive. In fact, it's so bad that many times, I find myself just staring at my radio, instead of using it.
I have considered quitting Ham radio. The only thing that has stopped me is the fact that I do realize this is just coming from a one particular group of hams. Mostly, the older ones, in their senior years, who have been licensed for about a century! Everyone else has been awesome!
So, my point is: As a group (new hams) I wonder how many of them have had the same feelings? In another article on eHam titled "Lets take control of the airways" a few older hams have stated how they feel. Apparently, since the code requirement was taken away, they don't feel as though we have earned our titles of General, etc. And, others have gotten so bothered by all this crap, that they have indeed quit Ham radio. That is sad...
A hobby that could use more members, a hobby that few find interesting. Should we be chasing people away? Okay, so there it is: Please comment on any of the following: If your a new ham that has quit. If you're a new ham that has been made to feel less than welcome. If you're a new ham that has been made to feel as though their title isn't equal to that of an older ham.
To ALL Of you, older and new alike, 73.
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N7YA on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I play music for a living. On occasion, we get some insecure heckler right up front smirking and scowling...but the last thing im going to do is slump, turn my gear off and forget about music. I enjoy doing what i do and when these wahoos act like that, it means nothing to me because i love playing music too much to let some little scrub bother me because im doing something and he is going home alone. The band and i just do our best and we always end up winning against the occasional little guy.
This is ham radio, you have to ask yourself if you enjoy doing it or if you are too affected by a small group with their own set of personal social dysfunctions. As stated in the other thread, this kind of thing has been going on for years. These kinds of A-holes will always be there, and the majority of hams you will encounter will be the awesome kind you mentioned. Focus on them instead.
I just dont see what would make you even consider quitting ham radio if most of the hams you run across are cool and you enjoy it...ignore the snerts, get on the air and do your thing. If you are enjoying yourself, you win. It really IS simple as that...you worked to get your license, the FCC made these rules and requirements, not you, you just took the test they gave you...you passed, they gave you a callsign. Sounds legit to me, you have nothing to atone for.
Get on the air and the old donkeys can go hang it in their tailpipe. Stand up and take your place, fellow ham. This 20 wpm will be happy to qso with you. Most of us will.
And always remember, this website is NOT the overall opinion that most hams hold.
73...Adam, N7YA
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KB0TXC on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Welcom KE7OSV!
May you make many friends on the airwaves!
I have been an amateur radio op for around 14 years or so, as a no-code tech. There are a few OFs around that will try to denigrate the fact that I did not learn code, but by far most amateur operators that I have run into seem to be very friendly and helpful.
I am into traditional electromechanical RTTY, (i.e. Teletype) and did not know squat about it, but my RTTY Elmer (K0TTY) who has been an amateur for decades has been quite helpful. Set me up with a beautiful ASR 28 and loop supply. I am now in the process of reviving and recapping an old hollow state converter (the demodulator portion of a 'modem'...a TT/L-2, which is around forty some odd years old, I think) so that I can copy RTTY off of the air. Presently, I use a RS-232 to Current loop converter from Black-box to 'copy' RTTY off of the Heavy-metal web portal.
Do not let the few nasty dispositioned OFs out there discourage you. There are many many more ops out there that will be more than happy to talk with you. I am hoping to be on HF this May... but I only will be able to run about 120 Watts with a ground mounted vertical, so aim your beam my way, and we will yak!
Best and 73!
Joe KB0TXC
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by G3LBS on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Welcome to ham radio. If you ever want a sked email me or join a few of us Mondays 14250 or lower SSB 11am Eastern. 73 Gil W2/G3LBS New York State.
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KB3HG on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry Deuel (KE7OSV)
Welcome Terry,
You have entered the Alpha Operator Zone. In other words if you didn't get it like I did, you don't measure up. I guess this describes what you encounter from some? Well, Terry we all experience this to one degree or another. Ham radio mimicking real life I guess. Life is short and you'll find that some of the "gruff" Old Timers can be you better assets, its a hobby, relax. there is too much to do to be intimidated. Jump in with both feet. A couple of things will happen.
1. They will not communicate with you.
2. They will communicate with you and accept you.
3. They even may take to mentoring you.
But best of all, beat them at their own game, as it were treat them with courtesy and kindness. It has a tendency to soften them up.
Enjoy the hobby, it's contagious.
Tom
Kb3hg
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by OE3SGU on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I think it is not necessarily only about code vs. no code, it is about how to behave on the bands. If you as a newcomer learn ur lessons, try to have a good operating practice (read the document by ON4WW/ON4UN) and get rid of CB-slang then every oldtimer will accept you. If they don't, well just forget them and enjoy the hobby - you have done your part!
In my former club there used to be more newcomers than oldtimers and some of them were still active in CB and mixed up Ham Radio and CB regularily. That's not the way I want Ham Radio to develop in the future. Even if licence requirements are getting easier we should keep some standards. Quality should be more important than quantity. But I would never let this be a reason for me to quit the hobby.
There is space enough for everyone on the bands, newcomer or oldtimer, and times are too tough to fight.
"Smart people compare their success to their goals, loosers compare themselves to others"
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by OE3SGU on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I think it is not necessarily only about code vs. no code, it is about how to behave on the bands. If you as a newcomer learn ur lessons, try to have a good operating practice (read the document by ON4WW/ON4UN) and get rid of CB-slang then every oldtimer will accept you. If they don't, well just forget them and enjoy the hobby - you have done your part!
In my former club there used to be more newcomers than oldtimers and some of them were still active in CB and mixed up Ham Radio and CB regularily. That's not the way I want Ham Radio to develop in the future. Even if licence requirements are getting easier we should keep some standards. Quality should be more important than quantity. But I would never let this be a reason for me to quit the hobby.
There is space enough for everyone on the bands, newcomer or oldtimer, and times are too tough to fight.
"Smart people compare their success to their goals, loosers compare themselves to others"
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KI4OXD on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Well, since you're only soliciting negative comments, I got nuttin' to say. I've only had good experiences on the air.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by NU4B on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"The only thing that has stopped me is the fact that I do realize this is just coming from a one particular group of hams. Mostly, the older ones, in their senior years, who have been licensed for about a century! Everyone else has been awesome!"
If everyone else is awesome, why not hang out with them? Every hobby, sport, workplace, church, and everywhere else has it cliques and snot noses.
If I had worried about about everytime I felt "not accepted" by an older ham I would have missed 30 years of a fascinating hobby and a lot of fun.
Many of these older hams are professional engineers and radio guys, etc.. and many feel their ranks are being diluted by new hams that would have never met the requirements they had to meet to get their license. And some of them are just a$$es. You just have to understand that, accept it, move on, enjoy the hobby. There's plenty to do. (And remember sometimes when you hang around with those guys,even if you feel slighted, you might learn something. There's a lot of knowledge stored up in those old brains.)
So quit whining and get on the air - and have some FUN!!!
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N6NKN on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry,
Have you ever joined a car club? A boat club? A flying club? How about model trains? Every group has it's welcoming members and it's "I'm better then you" members. Don't worry about the others. Which type will you be???
Enjoy the hobby. It really has something for everyone.
Rick N6NKN
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by K3YD on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
First of all, don't expect everyone to like you. The most popular politicians are lucky to have a 70% acceptance rating. That means that the other 30% are unhappy for some reason(s). Get used to it!
To get more out of Ham Radio, put more into it. Join a radio club or two, then serve on a committee, or present a program at a meeting, or write an article for a club newsletter, or work on a public service project, or . . . you get the idea.
Build your credentials. Not ready for Extra? How about getting Skywarn certification, or taking the IS-100 and IS-700 NIMS courses (free, on-line), or some of the ARRL courses.
Try different activities, bands and modes. Take part in Field Day, or VHF contests, or your State QSO party. Don't like CW? Try some of the other digital modes like PSK-31. Or, learn CW . . . because you want to, not because you had to.
As you do these things, you'll become one of the "old hands" of radio in your community. Then it will be your turn to welcome new hams.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KE7OSV writes: "I am disturbed at the less than enthusiastic welcome that I received from many of the "Older Hams." I don't mean anything that has been aimed at me directly... I mean, as a new ham."
Welcome to amateur radio! Good to have you aboard!
KE7OSV: "I am in that category, and it seems, we (new hams) even though we may have the title of General, are not considered to be "real hams", by many of the "older hams". We are not given the same level of respect that a real General of many years would receive. In fact, it's so bad that many times, I find myself just staring at my radio, instead of using it."
How is the respect lacking? By that I mean, how are you treated differently?
KE7OSV: "I have considered quitting Ham radio. The only thing that has stopped me is the fact that I do realize this is just coming from a one particular group of hams. Mostly, the older ones, in their senior years, who have been licensed for about a century! Everyone else has been awesome!"
The funny thing is, a considerable number of them may not be licensed as long as you might think.
KE7OSV: "Apparently, since the code requirement was taken away, they don't feel as though we have earned our titles of General, etc. And, others have gotten so bothered by all this crap, that they have indeed quit Ham radio. That is sad..."
There will always be a few who quite because ham radio isn't exactly the way they want it to be. The thing for you to do is to focus on the parts you like.
A bit of history: It's not just about "the code test". For the past couple of decades, the FCC has reduced the requirements (written test as well) for all classes of amateur license. It's happened a little at a time, but over the years the change has been dramatic. But with rare exceptions, the new hams have had nothing to do with those changes! (It's kind of like being mad at someone because they paid $500 for a computer last week, instead of $2000 for one 10 years ago.)
KE7OSV: "A hobby that could use more members, a hobby that few find interesting. Should we be chasing people away?"
NO! (As long as they follow the rules).
73 es welcome de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N4OI on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry,
I cannot comment on the situation on SSB, but there is an influx of very new hams on CW -- particularly around the SKCC frequencies. I suggest you learn enough code to try some QRS CW QSOs around 7.100 MHz to 7.115 MHz to start -- you will feel very welcomed and accepted!
73 de Ken - N4OI
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W2NSF on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Please try and get past your encounters with a few bad apples and start enjoying the hobby. If you're a General, you'll certainly enjoy the reception you get on HF, so ditch those repeaters and find out the magic of 2 way, shortwave radio communications!
73 de Jim, W2NSF
Will look for you on the bands!
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by WE4VB on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Welcome to the hobby...
Keep in mind: No one is completely worthless, you may always use them as a bad example!
Enjoy being on the air!
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W1ITT on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry:
You don't explain what you mean by "lack of respect". You don't tell us what sort of reception you expect to receive. If it's a brass band and champagne, I must tell you that none of us "old guys" (I've been licensed for 42 years, so I might just fall into that category) got a parade thrown in our honor when we came on the bands either.
Be cautious of the "entitlement mentality" and mind your manners on the air. When I'm not DX-ing and building stuff, I hang with a group on 75 meters composed mostly of 30-year-plus radio veterans who have a wide variety of interests including moonbounce, homebrewing, SDR, and other high tech stuff. We get quite a few new generals who stop by...and they come in two categories. There are the greenies who shout "radio check!", refer to their name as their "personal" and go "on the side" when they leave. Nothing will remind the "old guys" that someone came in under the licensing fence the easy way, straight out of 27 mhz sooner than that sort of behavior. The other types wait until we identify our callsigns every ten minutes and then dump their calls in. At that point, they are welcomed into the group and given signal reports all around, and most usually some antenna advice to find out why their signals aren't stronger! I have a bunch of qsls from guys for their first hf contact, and yes, I always qsl back!
Again, I don't know what you expect, but listening, learning and minding manners will get you a long way in most parts of the world, including amateur radio. You would no more jump onto a frequency demanding "radio check" than you would walk into a restaurant, sit down at a table with a group of strangers and demand to know what they think of your necktie.
Whether you got a no-code General license or a PhD in electrical engineering, nobody "owes" you any respect. You need to earn it. Those of us who are now the old guys were wet behind the ears once too, and it was exactly the same back then. It's time to get over the pity party and get on the air.
73 de Norm W1ITT
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by K9WJL on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hi Terry,
I'm a fairly new ham myself. I really don't see any problem with the "Old timers" that you mention.
Maybe it's a matter of respect.. I know that alot of the older hams (and many of the newer ones as well and maybe you also) know WAY more about radio than I ever will. They used to build their own radios and antennas from scratch and had to learn way more than I did to get their ticket. So, I just go into the situation knowing that, and being respectful, and I haven't had any of the problems that you mentioned.
That isn't to say theres not some people out there that I dont like and that don't like me, but I just do my thing and leave them alone. There's tons of guys out there that will gladly help you, especially on this site. K0BG, W8GI, N3OX, WB2WIK, and even KB9CRY and others have given me tons of knowledge whether I have just read their posts in the Elmers or asked direct questions to them.
Maybe, and I mean this in a nice way, you need to be a little more respectful in your approach. Also, If you have a problem, don't bother them with it until you have tried to read a little on it and learn a bit about it. All the information you need is already out there somewhere in print. You need to find it and learn about it and apply it. When it doesn't make sense, ask them for help. Don't expect them to do it all for you. Alot of these guys have already paved the way for you already.
Do join a club, and do go to field day. Be there early, and help set up. Stay late and log at night. Operate only when you are offered a seat. Make certain that you come back to help tear down. You'll gain alot of respect by helping with the work part of the endeavor.
Also, I know a Ham around here and he's an unsavory sort of guy to say the least. He sweats like a pig and weighs about 400 lbs. If he works a little bit he turns bright red in the face, and he constantly talks about the "repeater". He never shaves, he has a weird point of view and says stupid things trying to be "cool". He is an EE and I know he's a top notch electrician because he and I work together sometimes.
Don't be that guy if you know what I mean.
73 and HAVE FUN!
Bill K9WJL
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by K1BXI on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry.....
Welcome to ham radio 101. Norm, W1ITT said it about right. I have been licensed 52 years, and I came in right after the big change in "52" when the phone bands were opened to general class hams. I had my ego hurt a few times by the older class A hams, mostly because I had one of those new "K" calls. Nothing has changed except the reasons.
The only advice I would give you (from an OF's perspective) is listen, listen and listen some more! find the niche and the group that interests you the most and see how they operate. Learn how the different bands have different groups that talk about different subjects.
Ham radio has a vast subculture of different things, explore them all. Ham radio, as in real life, is made up of people. Some have better people skills than others.
John
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by K6YE on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry,
As previously stated, there are bad apples in every organization. However, the good eggs outnumber them 1,000 to 1 so seek them out. In addition, remember that you have a VFO and an On/Off switch.
I have been licensed for more than 45 years and I still learn from both older and younger hams. Getting involved with clubs and pertinent groups is a great way to enhance your experience.
Have fun and enjoy the hobby as much as you can while on this side of the dirt.
Semper Fi,
Tommy - K6YE
DX IS
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AI4WN on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hey Terry,
Welcome to Ham radio!!! Sorry to see your off on the wrong foot.
I got my ticket about 2 years ago, too. It was a long time waiting. School, family, and corporate America delayed my entry for many. many, years. For what 'free' time I had I listened as an SWL. But then the opportunity to leave corporate America provided me with the time to study and get my ticket.
My very first QSO was with an 'old Ham' I had listened to for many years. He has become a real friend and an 'over-the-air' mentor to me. My first DX QSO was with an 'old UK Ham', also a Ham I listened to for many years.
I suggest, just as others have, to become active in your local radio club. I was invited to join our club by an 'old Ham'. I have been the club's Secretary and I am now the club's Treasurer. I was invited by an 'old Ham' to become an ARES and RACES Ham. An 'old Ham' helped me to become a VE.
I guess I really can't share your experience with mine. I have always been greeted kindly in any QSO I've had in my 2 years of Ham radio. That's over 6,000 look-ups by QRZ.com's count.
I will say the lesson I've learned from my SWL years that I find very useful in Ham radio is -- listen, listen, listen. If you listen you should be able to decide if you really want a QSO with the Ham on the other end.
Enjoy this hobby as much or as more than others. Have a good time!!! Have a great QSO!!!
73 Tedd
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N9XCR on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry,
Welcome to the hobby. Amateur radio is no different than any other venture you get into. It will be what you make of it. The phrase,"the squeaky wheel gets the grease" holds true everywhere. The ass clowns area a minority, so pay no attention to them. Give your final ID and move to another frequency. There are plenty of great people out there that will be more than happy to share a positive on-air experience with you.
Chris
N9XCR
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by K6TPL on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Well I must say that as a old guy on the bands 50 some years...I would not have agreed at all with what you said here.....But one thing I've noticed myself, I was in the first group that took the no code Extra test a few years back. What do you know...My Extra friends said "Its Jer the no code Extra" As for me I welcome and am glad to talk with new operators. However, I do back away when the new operator uses CB language. That shows a kind disrespect for our Tradition. Us old guys sort of believe in that Tradition stuff! But we believe in you new guys to! So stick with it and trust me one of these days you will be the old gays. Life is that way! 73
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KC2RGW on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Unknowns are
How you introduce yourself to people on the air?
Who you are talking to and on what band and under what conditions?
People are people and there are people and topics and methods of operation for anyone on the bands. You just have to take the time to find a fit for yourself.
If you interrupt an ongoing conversation with a non sequitur as in a conversation about fishing and you come in with "How's my signal", it will annoy people.
Find the locals in your club and ask them where they operate and get some introductions that way. That can help. Otherwise listen more than you talk and take the time to ease in with introductions. It takes time to make friends at the local bar and rag chewing on the bands is no different. You have to get to know people gradually.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KD5NVC on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Ignore all that hogwash, As stated earlier in this post, get on the air and avoid those who can make this hobby troublesome at times.... Whatever your license grants you, use it!! I too have a sore spot for some of the supercilious ones out there but we all have to move forward and leave them all behind.
73 and Enjoy!!
Glenn
KD5NVC
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by WA8MEA on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I agree with the person(s) who have echoed the sentiment that we've all gone through "prejudice" in one form or another.
I was one of those Novices that was tested by a General, instead of being a "real ham" and being from the era when there was no Novice ticket and you started off taking a General test in front of the FCC.
Many are also discriminated against because they worked their way from SWL to CB'er and then to amateur radio.
I remember that because I was a kid, many adults really didn't want to talk with me. (I actually have a friend who says he can't stand to talk to kids on ham radio and that he didn't get into ham radio to talk to kids.)
So there is discrimination of all forms....not only in amateur radio....but in LIFE!
73, Bill - WA8MEA
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KB9CRY on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
though we may have the title of General, are not considered to be "real hams", by many of the "older hams". We are not given the same level of respect that a real General of many years would receive.
As you will learn as you progress in your life, Respect is something that is earned.
Maybe your perceived lack of respect from the older hams is in the way you present yourself as a newcomer, maybe the way you ask your questions, maybe the way you strive to learn on your own the basics and not rely on others to coddle you along on every point. Respect is earned, not an entitlement.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KE7OSV on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
To KI40XD: Your right. Looking back on this I see that I should have asked one more question. How many of us have had only good experiences, would have been a good thing to include. My mistake. Thank u 4 your comment.
KE7OSV
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KE7OSV on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Here is a post from another article by, NY7Q. Just 1 example of what I was trying to say here. Comments?
Most operators are nothing but operator
-no coders nowadays. They know nothing about radio. Most are just internet computer jocks and think they are radio people. Not so.
Too bad.
I am glad I am part of the Real radio era.
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KC8ZEV on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I guess its all about what you want to get out of Amateur Radio. There are new "tubes", old "tubes" that still work, "tubes" that are cranky and work only sometimes, "tubes" that are in bad shape and make only noise, "tubes" that don't work until they are warmed up, "tubes" that glow but don't work, and there are "tubes" that are plain burned out. My point is that you should go to where the "tubes" work for you. If you are being snubbed by the cranky old "tubes", spin the big knob and go looking for better "tubes". Listen. Learn good operating habits. This will help define you as an operator on the air. Soon, you will be a well seasoned, fully functioning, glowing "tube". My experience in Amateur Radio is all about the journey........not so much about the destination to becoming a top notch, well respected, widely recognized on air "tube". Some tubes still have the factory smell to them...........others have a distinct, musty odor to them.
I ask you.......which "tube" do you want in your radio????
73
KC8ZEV
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W5DFD on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Just avoid the CB slang and enjoy! It's a great hobby; don't ditch it because of a few.
73's
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KA9DTZ on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry,
Browsing the comments, there is a lot of truth in what people are saying to you. Constructive comments. You, ultimately, have to make the decision.
I grew up in a town where the 2 or 3 hams were too busy to take any time for a kid. Fortunately, there were a couple of people, CB guys, that did take an interest and helped me. There was a whole world of ham radio out there beyond the city limits. Don't give up.
You don't, and never did, have to know everything in order to become licensed. It's always been the learn as you go plan. Sure, the whole ham radio testing thing has been diluted over the years but that doesn't mean new people don't have potential. It's the same all over. Over the years, I've worked with other engineers that I was in awe of and plenty that I knew were good test takers. If you get your license and are content to sit in front of the 2mtr radio for the next couple of decades, I have to question the point of it all. If, on the other hand, you grow to whatever potential you have over the years then you are being a ham.
I understand some of the ill feelings out there among the community but it's not all justified. So many cases of the blind leading the blind due to so many new hams. Poor op skills coupled with poor behavior cause part of problem. The real problem is the blind who don't want to see and those who don't want to help. If we don't accept and try to be a good Elmer or the new hams aren't interested in learning the way hams have over the decades, we'll never get past the problems. Oh... and I'm pro-code but I can look back over the years and see code never did keep out all the bad apples... listen to 75 meters.
Learn all you can and contribute when you're able... be a ham.
73, Greg
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by K8QV on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I'm sorry you had that experience.
I haven't noticed much of that attitude in my local area. We actively promote the hobby and give classes. We lure new hams with good food to our Field Days (summer and winter) and picnic radio outings. Maybe it works because the people doing the most for new hams aren't in a club, so egos are minimal.
Older members of any group have shared memories, old friends, and "in" jokes that noobs just can't share in. Don't take that comradeship as an insult.
I have seen a couple of hobby snobs, but as I said, it's the exception here. Try to ignore them, don't take sides in their petty power struggles and jealousies, and look for normal people. They may not be on the club repeaters, but on simplex instead.
Good luck!
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W8KQE on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Do what I do. Just ignore many of the pompous, 'holier than thou' old farts and work the DX! Thankfully, our signals can span the oceans and continents!
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KF4HR on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry keep in mind the amateur radio community is not unlike any other slice of the population. In any activity you become involved with you can expect the same variety of responses. Some may like you, others may not. Sorry, that's life. Welcome to the world. If you truly enjoy this hobby and you allow a few bad apples to cause you to quit, well perhaps the hobby wasn't for you to start with.
As for looking for the same respect from licensees that worked harder for their ticket than you did - well... I wish you luck with that. It might help if took the time to understand what differences have occurred over the years.
Truth is, many hams did have to work harder than you to obtain their license. Just a few examples..., at one time there was no Internet where someone could access the exact answers to the exact questions of a amateur exam, memorize those answers, answer the questions correctly on the exam, even though that person may not even understand the question. And years ago, even people who hated CW, had to learn it to become licensed. And at one time a ham starting out with a Novice license had to learn enough electronic theory and FCC regulations to pass their next amateur test(s) at the end of their first year, or get off the air.
Yep, licenses and information on how to pass an amateur exams has become easier to obtain now-a-days. People had to work harder for what they earned back then, but that was just the way it was. So addressing specifically the licensing procedures; should an old timer have the same respect for an amateur licensed under easier rules? Would you?
Consider this. Imagine if in 5 years from now, the FCC eliminates all written amateur tests. And from that day forward only two things would be necessary to obtain an Amateur License; a) you must be a US Citizen, and b) the submission of one of three applications and a fee (your choice); Tech ($20), General ($50), or Extra ($100).
Given what you've gone through to obtain your license, would you have the same respect for this newly licensed General licensee?
It's important to realize that, compared to years ago, many old timers (whether they admit it or not), see the current amateur licensing procedures as almost a joke. Each old timer of course has a different view on the newly licensed.
As for me, I have zero respect for someone purely because they passed an amateur exam. Truth is, the tests have just become too easy to pass. On the other hand, I quickly find I develop respect for amateurs, regardless how long they have been licensed, who conducts themselves professionally and intelligently on the air.
Then again, there's the amateur who treats their gear like a toy and is heard rambling-on day after day mindlessly, just because their gear is sitting there.
KF4HR
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
My reaction to some quotes:
"Most operators are nothing but operator-no coders nowadays. They know nothing about radio."
Yes, there are some hams who are 'nothing-but operator' and who know very little about radio.
However, that's nothing new. And in my experience, that description doesn't fit most hams today.
"Most are just internet computer jocks and think they are radio people. Not so.
Too bad."
Internet, computers and radio aren't mutually exclusive. It's possible - even easy - to be well versed in all of them.
"I am glad I am part of the Real radio era."
Me too! That era started long before I was born, and continues today.
---
It used to be that simply getting a basic amateur radio station on the air and operating it required a certain amount of know-how, plus a considerable amount of time, effort and money.
Over time, however, advances in technology have produced rigs that cost much less (when you adjust for inflation) and require much less knowledge to use (if you don't use the fancy features).
The result is that *some* newer hams have holes in their knowledge of how radio works. That's not their fault; it's just the way things are. Nor does it mean they can't learn; it just means they haven't learned yet.
An Analogy:
There was a time when learning how to drive a car required learning how to use a clutch and manual gearshift, because automatic transmissions didn't exist. Over time, automatic transmissions became more common, but most drivers learned to drive a manual because there were so many cars on the road that had them. (Particularly low-cost cars that new drivers would be the most likely to own.)
But now we've reached the point where automatic transmissions are the rule and manual transmissions are the exception, at least in cars and light trucks. Many models don't even offer a manual transmission as an option. And while the differences in cost, performance and fuel efficiency between transmissions used to be considerable, modern technology has reduced them to minor factors today.
So it shouldn't surprise anyone that some newer drivers haven't learned to drive a manual-transmission car. It's not *their* fault! And it doesn't mean they're not "real drivers".
OTOH, being able to drive a manual transmission is a useful skill for any driver. Worth learning even today.
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by K8QV on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Yep, licenses and information on how to pass an amateur exams has become easier to obtain now-a-days. People had to work harder for what they earned back then, but that was just the way it was. So addressing specifically the licensing procedures; should an old timer have the same respect for an amateur licensed under easier rules? Would you? "
It's true that it is ridiculously easy to get a license today. A simple multiple choice quiz, no diagrams to draw, no intimidating FCC field office, and no code.
But that isn't the fault of the new licensees. That's just how one gets a license these days. Good hams are good hams, regardless of how they obtained a license.
It doesn't take much work, dedication or interest to obtain a license anymore, and the result is a lot of new people that never get off the repeaters, and often lose interest in radio because their only radio experience is repeater migraines. These people would have never even entered the hobby back in the "old days."
But the "real hams" are still coming into the fold, even though it's easier than it used to be. I've seen completely green Techs advance to Extra in a year, learning code as well, just for fun!
We have no control over government licensing requirements, and neither do the new hams. All of us have just done what was required of us to get here.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by K1BXI on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry....
With that reply you just did with a copy/paste of NY7Q earlier artical leads me to think you maybe going out of your way to find people you think are showing you no respect. Your time would be better spent understanding the reply's to your own article.
By the way, much of what Larry said is true, but that is only because of a continually changing world. Like the arrow of time, we can't go back, today is the day we will only remember about when tomorrow comes.
Your new license is a license to learn, as was mine, 52 years ago........ John
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KB9YKP on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry, for many years I wrote and told stories for a living, so if I’m long winded please accept my apology.
I understand just how you feel. I passed the Tech exam in 2000 at the age of 48. Bought a used 2-meter rig (doesn't every new ham), from a professional acquaintance, built and installed a simple ground plane antenna and awaited my call sign showing up on line.
I monitored the local repeaters and noted the operating habits and practices of the operators I heard. When my license was finally posted on line, I was excited. Since I worked in the media, I had no trouble or fear of talking into a mike. I found that one particular repeater was the busiest, and when traffic allowed I called “KB9YKP listening ‘xx”. A few seconds later, someone responded, but not in the manner I had expected. The other operator asked again for my call sign, and I repeated it using phonetics and listened for a reply. Again, it was not the reply I had expected. The responding operator stated: “You are not KB9YKP, I know him and he’s in Florida this time of year”. I responded by stating my call again and asked if he could be mistaken. “No, you’re not him and we’ll find you and turn you into the FCC”.
So, figuring there was some sort of Federal faux pas, I stayed off the air until my license came in the mail. The document confirmed that I was who I was.
Now with license in hand I returned to the air. I avoided the first repeater I used, and called on another. I had a nice QSO with a gentleman and when we concluded, I noticed 2 cars in my driveway. Apparently my “friends” from the other repeater had “found” me as they had promised. Before going out to the driveway I grabbed my license and my “personal protection device” and walked out to meet my ham “brethren”. Both men were out of their cars when I walked up and one of them took my picture and informed my they had photographed my house, my car and my antenna and were going to send it all to “Riley” in Washington DC. I exposed my “personal protection device” in my waistband and asked if either of them could read. I showed both of these “gentlemen” my license and they seemed profoundly confused. They handed back my license without speaking a word they both left.
My 2-meter rig sits up on a shelf a few feet from where I’m writing this. Neither it, nor I, have ever been on the air since. I found another hobby that satisfies me more. Over the years I can only imagine what kind of “shack” I could have built with the money I’ve since invested in tables saws, routers, clamps and power tools. However I never have to worry about strange people coming to my home and questioning me about being a legally licensed woodworker. I'll probably renew my ticket next year since it took me 40 years to earn it.
Of course, Terry, your experience might turn out to be better than mine.
73.
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KA2DDX on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Welcome to amateur radio. I hope you enjoy this for many years to come. Please don't be discouraged by some.
I am an older ham, and a cw enthusiast. But, just because I'm an older ham, doesn't mean I have more to offer than you. In fact, I welcome you and others because you will bring something new to this that the "old" ones will not or can not.
I'm glad cw was eliminated. It's great to use, but it is outdated and new hams don't need to know it.
Hope to hear you on the air; cw, ssb, psk, whatever you like.
73's
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W4VR on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
You did not say which bands you operate. If you get chastised on 75 or 20 meters for being a newbie, I understand...there are lots of alligators on those two bands that have nothing better to do but cast insults. Try 40 and 17, you'll find nicer old folks down there. When you upgrade you can go down lower in frequency on the 75 meter band to get away from the good old boy nets.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by K8QV on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Both men were out of their cars when I walked up and one of them took my picture and informed my they had photographed my house, my car and my antenna and were going to send it all to “Riley” in Washington DC."
They should be charged with harassment. You were more reserved than I would have been under the circumstance.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W7ETA on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"We are not given the same level of respect that a real General of many years would receive."
Even if that were true, you'd have to have been a General many years ago to know what respect you received, so what?
I can't remember a single time when I've chatted with anyone on HF that the issue of what tests had taken came up, especially when chatting with hams outside of the USA.
My experience was that I got my ticket, I got on HF, had a lot of FUN; got my General, got more band width and could run an amp, and had more FUN on HF.
The problems you are encountering might because you started on VHF/UHF repeaters, and/or joined a club that is not oriented towards bringing in new hams. Typically, volunteer organizations have a few members with poor people to people skills.
During the time it took to build code speed from 5 wpm to 13 wpm, people gained experience and knowledge along with confidence in their operating ability; the certainty of being "ham" crept into one's life from "playing" radio.
73
Bob
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W3HR on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W1ITT really said it all. Very well.
Too many people come into this with today's "it's all about me" attitude; expecting to change procedures and TRADITIONS to conform to their whim. Before I ever sent my first dit or dah, I LISTENED and LEARNED, and I STUDIED the license and operating manuals. Note, I said studied, as in "to learn," as opposed to remembering Q&As.
You have to go along to get along.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KR4WM on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
He's running the ball.... he's at the 50, the 40, the 30, OHHH..... and Smith is tackled by #48! He looks like he's injured! Here's comes the medical crew- they're taking him over to the bench to see what's wrong! Let's see if we can catch the action with our field reporter Al at the bench to find out what Smith's problem is! What? What's that Al? It's his FEELINGS!!! His FEELINGS ARE HURT!!!! Somebody hurt Smith's FEELINGS!!!
Sorry, couldn't resist... :-)
Carry on... don't take it personal, it's something I
heard on the internet a few years ago. I wish I could
find it...
73, -KR4WM
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together? comments II
|
|
|
by NY7Q on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Well, since I was the "one" to be called out, I'll respond.
back about 1953 I became interested in electronics and the morse code. "cw" to you new guys.
Well, I will make this as short as I can, I learned the code, I went to electronic schooling to be a Technicial person, I immersed myself into learning a trade of electronics repair. Along the way I discovered ham radio, and put my body and soul into learning about ham radio. In other words, I worked and studied my tail off to be a great CW OP/ham op.
I found that being a ham person was someone interested in bettering ones self, learning new things, learning how to fix radios, tvs or anything electronic.
It was called pride, workmanship, Honesty, devotion,
desire to learn new things...etc....
I was just a normal young person of the day.
Today, it not the same.
People do not care about pride, workmanship, honesty, devotion, and desire to learn new things.
People want things given to them, with no checks and balances. People of today want things others have worked their butts off to obtain.
Am I an elitist??? I'd bet so. Because I worked and worked and worked to make the grade as a person and as a ham.
Nothing has ever been given to me...I worked for each test of checks and balances....
So don't call me out in a negative manner if you haven't made the grade yet.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together? comments II
|
|
|
by W0ZD on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
How many pounds am I hitting you, my first personal is, your 5 plus 9 by 9, how bout dat KX4XXX out there ya gota copy on me and one of my favorites "how am I making the trip"? I’ve heard this all on 20 meters over the last year. Where are the mentors ??
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together? comments II
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
NY7Q writes: "It was called pride, workmanship, Honesty, devotion, desire to learn new things...etc....
I was just a normal young person of the day."
All good things.
NY7Q: "Today, it not the same.
People do not care about pride, workmanship, honesty, devotion, and desire to learn new things.
People want things given to them, with no checks and balances. People of today want things others have worked their butts off to obtain."
I disagree!
What you write about is true for SOME people today. People of all ages, too. And it's not a new thing.
Maybe it's more prevalent today, or maybe it gets more publicity. But I know lots of people today, young and old, who care about pride, workmanship, honesty and devotion. People who desire to learn new things, and who are willing to work their butts off to get the things they want.
NY7Q: "Am I an elitist??? I'd bet so."
I don't think so. I think you're someone with standards and values, that's all.
NY7Q: "Nothing has ever been given to me..."
Well, a lot has been given to me. I could make a long list, but it all sums up into this:
Just being born in a country like the USA is a gift. Many people have gone through all kinds of hardship to get here, or to a country like ours, or to escape the places they came from.
We have freedoms and opportunities much of humanity can't even dream of. Simple stuff like education, clean water, and the right to vote are incredible gifts.
-----
And now for a true story...
Way back in 1967, I earned my Novice license at the ripe old age of 13. My Elmers were books, my rigs were whatever I could put together for little or no money. I learned the code by listening to hams on 80 meters on a simple homebrew 2 tube receiver, and sending to myself on a homebrew 1 tube practice oscillator.
In those days one could not remain a Novice; that license was a one-shot thing. Upgrading to General was the goal. In those days Generals and all other license classes except Novice and Tech had full operating privileges; the Advanced and Extra existed but they didn't let you do things different from the General. When I first heard about this, I thought it was odd that there would be four (General, Conditional, Advanced, Extra) license classes with exactly the same operating privileges, but I was a newcomer and didn't make a big deal of it.
However, it wasn't long before I heard stories about changes that were to soon to come. In November of 1968, the HF bands would be carved up into subbands-by-license-class, and it would take an Extra to get full privileges, while Advanceds would have almost all and Generals would retain most.
To me, all that meant was that I'd have to take a few more tests and get an Extra, rather than stopping at General. But how hard could those tests really be?
What amazed me back then was the reaction of some other hams, almost all of them older and more experienced than me, with much more elaborate stations. There were stories told of how you had to practically be a combination EE and commercial telegrapher to pass them, how the changes would make most hams' gear worthless and would kill off growth, and eventually be the end of amateur radio. More than a few hams were angry, thinking that because they'd passed the tests for General or Conditional X or Y years before, they should be guaranteed full amateur privileges forever.
A dark picture, indeed. Should have made me give up hope, right?
Yet by the summer of 1968 (age 14) I had upgraded to Advanced, and by 1970 (age 16) to Extra. Would have done Extra sooner but in those days FCC required 2 years as General or higher just to *try* the Extra. But I had the confidence of youthful ignorance, and just passed the tests.
Did I makee the grade as a "real ham" then? I don't know.
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together? comments II
|
|
|
by N7YA on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Well, there ya go, Terry. Hope this cleared some of that up for you...at least as far as a bunch of internet-frequenting hams go.
Adjust your squelch and tune out the jerky ops who want to make you jump through hoops to make THEM feel better. I had to go through this too, but i was actually completely uninterested in what these old bastards thought of me, i was there to play with radios and talk to folks who wanted to talk to me...not impress some old guys i didnt know or even like. Try doing it that way.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W8MW on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry, stay around long enough and you will see a recurring pattern with others receiving the same treatment you did. This phenomena of the old eating their young has been around forever in ham radio. Okay I don't know about forever. But I know about 47 years. And that's how long ago it was when I was a shiny new ham receiving my first unexpected bashing from bitter old guys. It hit me like a sucker punch and I sat there heartsick that someone would say I didn't belong in this hobby.
Being both a new ham and a teenager, I didn't have the perspective to see the situation for what it really was. I might have given up except for some buddies who convinced me all hams are not like that. I also learned the benefits of finding your tribe. That is, associating with those sharing the same specialty interests you do. Ham radio is divided up in so many ways that, no, we're not all in this together.
Acceptance is never an issue when you connect with good folks. It shouldn't ever be an issue at all among radio enthusiasts, but there is a certain ilk that derives all sorts of pleasure from setting new hams straight on just how unworthy they are. These days their weapons are no code test and less complicated exams. You might be interested to know the stick they pounded me with back in the 60's was lack of homebrewing skills.
Nobody could possibly contribute to the radio art by simply purchasing store-bought equipment. Real hams scrounge for components, wind their own coils, punch and bend their own aluminum chassis. And if you didn't do that, the grouches would rather see you gone. No, scratch that. They'd rather you never got here in the first place. I'm glad FCC issues the licenses and not the grouches. If they did there would never be another new ham in America.
The judgmental types of today will eventually fade away to be replaced by others sour over something else. You will become an experienced amateur. At some future time you might find yourself trying to be a good guy to that new operator who just got the treatment. Why does that sound familiar?
73, Mike W8MW
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N9XCR on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
@KB9CRY
"Respect is earned, not an entitlement."
It's a two-way street, Phil. I agree that any operator needs to present themselves in a certain way, though, just as you said. People need to remember that conversations on the radio should closely resemble face-to-face conversations.
Here's an example...
I cringe when I hear people saying,"Over" at the end of their transmissions on the local repeaters. lol
Chris
N9XCR
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together? comments II
|
|
|
by N9XCR on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
@W0ZD
"How many pounds am I hitting you, my first personal is, your 5 plus 9 by 9, how bout dat KX4XXX out there ya gota copy on me and one of my favorites "how am I making the trip"? I’ve heard this all on 20 meters over the last year. Where are the mentors ??"
Bitching at them and running them off the radio instead of offering constructive criticism. That said... to hell with those operators if they're not willing to accept some FRIENDLY advice. Those are the ones who SHOULD go back to CB.
Amateur radio is kind of like work. It would be a much better place if everybody worked to help each other succeed rather than working only to fulfill their own agenda.
Chris
N9XCR
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KB2DHG on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
As a seasond old time ham I have to dissagree with you?
I welcome new Amateurs and always offer my assistance.My Club is dedicated to bringing in new hams and making them feel welcome and a part of this hobby.
To me you ARE the most valued participant of my beloved hobby... YOU are the future and we need you more than anything...
I am sorry if you did encounter some poor responce from any ham for that matter... Don't get discouraged...
Thank you for your article and I certiaanly do WELCOME you and ALL new Amateurs
So get on the air and WELCOME my radio Brother/Sister
|
| |
|
Over!
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
N9XCR writes: "People need to remember that conversations on the radio should closely resemble face-to-face conversations."
Well, no and yes.
On the radio, you usually can't interrupt someone, or give feedback by facial expressions or gestures as is done in face-to-face conversation. In addition, depending on the mode used, the audio quality of a voice transmission may make certain words difficult to understand.
Then there's the whole legal business about proper ID, and the good-operating-practice of waiting for breaking stations and such.
N9XCR: "I cringe when I hear people saying,"Over" at the end of their transmissions on the local repeaters."
Some folks do take things to an extreme. And it's not limited to ham radio.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJCfUm21BsI
73 de Jim, N2EY
(over)
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W3TUA on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Ham radio is just like any other club or group. Find the people who have similar interests and make friends. I've moved around the country quite a bit in the past 20 years and found plenty of fellow hams. Some were buttheads but others were nice to know.
YMMV.
73,
Korey--W3TUA
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KF4HR on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Both men were out of their cars when I walked up and one of them took my picture and informed my they had photographed my house, my car and my antenna and were going to send it all to “Riley” in Washington DC."
That is without a doubt the worst "newly licensed" story I have heard in my 40+ years in the hobby. It's unfortunate but there are a small percentage of amateur's that feel it's their God given right to take on a combination role of; Dudly-Do-Right, the Pope, the FCC's secret police force, and Superman.
I wish you would have gotten these idiots call signs, snapped a picture of them as you displayed your license, then sent your story and your picture to the ARRL. I would have loved to seen their mugs on the cover of QST, along with your story. (And a harassment charge would have been icing on the cake.)
Rest assured idiots like this are (thankfully) far and few between, but it's easy to see how those circumstances would sour you to the hobby. For every Dudly-Do-Right idiot we have in our ranks, there are thousands of amateurs with plenty of common sense. Come on back.
KF4HR
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together? comments II
|
|
|
by W3HR on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
A lot of Conditionals felt that way, and consequently never upgraded beyond General because their privileges were diminished.
I experienced a similiar situation - although my hesitancy to upgrade came not from any loss of privileges, but from the diminished entry requirements of the license I would test for!
After a 15-year hiatus, I came back into this hobby to discover that my Advanced class had been eliminated (although my ticket was being grandfathered indefinitely). As soon as I learned that the code requirement for Extra had been lowered to 5 wpm, I decided NOT to upgrade. At least my old dinosaur Advanced would prove that I had at least passed Element 1B (13wpm)!
Now, this probably didn't matter one iota to anyone else... but it did TO ME! In my eyes, CW was the epitome of Ham Radio and earning an Extra ticket had been the acme: a source of pride for the achievement it took to make the grade. Dumbing it down lessened its value. Maybe they would reconsider this code thing at a later time, who could tell? In the mean time, I'd remain a happy, unscathed Advanced.
Well, they reconsidered it alright, but not in the way I'd hoped for! When news came down that the code was going to be eliminated altogether, I had to do some thinking. If I was ever going to upgrade it would definitely HAVE to be now, while it was still under some semblance of the code rules.
And that's what I did. Sometimes, I wish I'd kept my Advanced - it meant more to me. After all, half of the Extra exam was stuff I'd already tested for on my Advanced.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by K5MO on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Yes but....
I soloed as a new ham. No clubs, no Elmer, just books and a 14 year old kid.
I made a lot of mistakes, blew stuff up, shocked myself, and had a ball. I read and studied anything I could get my hands on (even discovered QRP via Mother Earth News, of all places).
It was work, but in time I made friends, learned more, blew up more expensive stuff and continued to have a ball.
It's not bad that it takes some work. Most things worthwhile do. It's not as easy as buying a handheld PC with a quick start guide, (the efforts of W5YI's ham-license in a cereal-box program notwithstanding) thank goodness. Those who aren't willing to invest some of their own time to learn and understand perhaps aren't all that interested anyway. Those who are, welcome to the greatest hobby on earth.
John K5MO
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KC2TOO on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
let me first say that as a new ham (tech for less than one year) I don't typically comment on eham, I usually read read read and learn. Anyhow, I am also involved in another hobby that has a similar mindset at times. I restore antique farm engines and equipment. I have gotten the whole "you don't know anything about that" from old timers before. If the criticism is constructive and I can learn from it, I do. If it is just the good ole boys mentality, it goes in one ear and out the other.
I am the youngest person in my company who does the type of maintenance work that I do. I make sure to learn from the old timers, most of whom are more than willing to teach me what I need to know.
On the radio, I enjoy several of the local club nets on the repeaters and I also enjoy a local roundtable type discussion on the mornings when I am driving home from Erie. At the time of day I am on, i am the only Tech, but I have had nothing but good experiences from the generals and extras who are usually on at that time of day. Before I went on the air, I paid attention to how other hams were operating. I'm sure that when I upgrade to general (hopefully soon, depending on the work schedule) and get on HF I'll run into the occasional problem, but oh well. As many others have said, that's what the big dial is for. As to complaints about me not having the code test, well, I got interested in radio after those tests were gone. If they were still required, I'd learn, as I am planning to anyways.
73's
Paul
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KC0RBX on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
One thing to be positive about is the fact that those older hams are dying off. Gradually they will become SK. Things are looking up! There will become fewer and fewer of them and there will be more band space for us younger hams.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together? comments II
|
|
|
by W9OY on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
So lemme see
You skimmed a bunch of questions for a couple hours and answered like 50 of them or something. You passed. Whoopee. How does this make you the equal of some guy who has been engaged in the hobby for 40 years?
My impression is that it is YOUR attitude that stinks not the old timer.
I remember my first few Novice contacts. My hands were sweaty, I wasn't sure I would do it right. The guys I talked to led me through it. I just turned 11. It was all at once frightening and exhilarating. I sure as hell didn't come to it with the attitude: HEY BUD YOU AND ME ARE EQUAL CAUSE I PASSED A 20 QUESTION TEST. I didn't know jack, those guys knew jack. in fact they knew jack to the power of 10.
I respected my elders in the hobby (both in experience AND chronology), maybe you should do the same and you just might find the best friend you ever had. Remember BUD the old timer has all the friends he needs YOU'RE THE ONE IN NEED. It's called humility and being honest about just how "equal" you really are.
73 W9OY
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by WZ1P on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
You will find that most 'senior' hams resent new hams for not having to learn morse cose to get their ticket. "It's not fair, you did'nt pay you dues" and on and on. Most of them are still stuck in the 1950's or what ever their glory years were.
Hang in there. Take comfort in knowing that even if they never accept you as a ham that at least they will all be dead soon.
73, Dan.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KB9CRY on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I cringe when I hear people saying,"Over" at the end of their transmissions on the local repeaters. lol
Excuse me. I say Over all the time on the low bands. Never on the repeaters but maybe that is all you have experience with. There is a lot of parts of Amateur radio for everyone's interests.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together? comments II
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W3HR writes: "A lot of Conditionals felt that way, and consequently never upgraded beyond General because their privileges were diminished."
Well, I got my Advanced in 1968, and had full privileges for a couple of weeks, then lost 'em on Nov. 22 of that year. So I lived through it, but somehow it didn't bother me.
I remember one longtime Conditional in our area who made a big deal about incentive licensing. BOY was he sore when I got the Advanced. Then when I got Extra...
At the time, I didn't understand why he didn't just go get one himself. He'd been a ham far longer than me; how hard could it be?
Only much later did I realize that the real issue was that he didn't want to study.
W3HR: "At least my old dinosaur Advanced would prove that I had at least passed Element 1B (13wpm)!"
But it doesn't prove that at all.
In 1990, ten years before the Advanced was closed to new issues, the FCC created medical waivers for the 13 and 20 wpm code tests. Get a note from a doctor and all anyone needed was 5 wpm for any class of license.
So holding an Advanced simply proves that someone passed 5 wpm at one time - same as a Novice.
Now you may say something like 'But I didn't get a medical waiver!' or 'my Advanced is pre-1990!'. But that's additional info beyond the license class. Might as well get a 25 wpm Code Proficiency Certificate from ARRL and point to that (25 wpm is faster than any test FCC or its predecessors ever gave for an amateur license).
W3HR: "After all, half of the Extra exam was stuff I'd already tested for on my Advanced."
The way I figure it, if the FCC or anybody else wants me to retest, I'll just do it. Code, written, old test, new test, whatever, bring 'em on.
What really matters is what one does with the license.
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"I say Over all the time on the low bands. Never on the repeaters but maybe that is all you have experience with."
I think the point is that there's no reason to say "over" on a repeater, because the timer reset tone signals the end of your transmission anyway.
I used to cringe over "destinated" but then realized there isn't a common word for "I'm mobile, I've arrived at my destination, and I will be leaving the air".
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together? comments II
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W9OY writes: "You skimmed a bunch of questions for a couple hours and answered like 50 of them or something. You passed. Whoopee."
Neither you nor I know how much he studied to pass the tests.
Of course the current tests look easy to those of us who have been hams for a couple decades. They should look easy to us after all that experience!
But to a newcomer without a technical background, learning enough to pass the tests can be a challenge. Particularly if the person insists on understanding the material, and not just memorizing it. (I've seen both).
W9OY: "How does this make you the equal of some guy who has been engaged in the hobby for 40 years?"
It doesn't!
But I don't see the article's author saying he's the equal of an old-timer. What he wants is basic respect, that's all. AFAIC, everyone deserves basic respect until they prove themselves unworthy of it.
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together? comments II
|
|
|
by N9SKN on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Well Terry,
looks like you have the whole spectrum of guys right here in your thread. Some of their comments supported your stated suspicions, while others congratulated, and encouraged you to just get on the air and have fun.
Some of the Op's earned their tickets under different requirements than others. Later this class or that Op got short changed on privelages due to changing requirements probably leaving a bad taste in alot of mouths. The changes then again repeat themselves every so often. "They're now giving away what I had to work for". I would probably feel the same way if I "Extra'd" in 1949, but the feelings of some out there don't make you any less capable of a ham today.
I work with a couple of supervisors that were helo mechs in Vietnam. No matter what us 'younger' guys accomplish or pull off at work while they are still figuring out where to look in a book. 'We will never be half the mechs they are' ...because we weren't in Vietnam. Same deal and none of that will ever change. Don't let it bother you, its just how some people have to see themselves.
IMO its not really what ticket you're running. The tickets, the requirements, the privelages all change - its what you do decide to do with it to better yourself and have fun with others and the hobby.
Find the good in it and others, Terry.
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by NN4RH on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Whining and trolling is not a solution.
Sure, a few people will coo at you, and maybe that will make you feel all warm and cozy for a few days.
But what does that actually accomplish? It sure doesn't gain you any respect from anyone, if that's what you're looking for.
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N9DG on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W5MO's experience was fairly close to mine. No elmer, mostly self taught with books. Minimal club involvement. But I didn't blow up much stuff at all either. I simply couldn't afford to! So I was extremely meticulous about making sure that I wouldn't. I think compared to many I've kept most of the smoke of my gear inside of it. Though some certainly has escaped over the years:).
And I surely didn't start out on the bands with an “I just passed my license so now I smart” attitude, or that I'm now a “big shot” because I passed some silly FCC test. After all the FCC test was a *minimum* requirement to get into ham radio. And I knew that it represented just a beginning, not an end. But on the other side of the coin it became apparent quite quickly that some old timers simply weren't nearly as sharp technically as they thought they were. I simply avoided them, I knew they had very little to teach me.
And then some other old timers were so completely stuck in old technology and were really rather clueless about any new technology of the day. They too had little to offer in my learning advancement.
I instead paid my attention to those who had/have continuously been building on their existing knowledge and experiences vs. those who seemed to have picked some arbitrary point in time and froze their desire to learn anything new. Yes there is lots of old timer wisdom out there, but that old time wisdom really isn't worth all that much if it isn't being used in the context of where the world and technology is at today.
As for the old timers (and not so old timers) of today who say that licensing testing is now so easy. To them I ask this: Can you still pass all the license elements for your current license class with little or no study? If so, then great. If not then I really don't want to hear about the “dumbing down” of ham radio from them either. And yes I do apply that same “criteria” to someone who past their license tests just a few months or a year ago as well. After all if someone's willingness to learn anything more or new automatically ends with the successful passing of a test, then they've missed the who point of amateur radio.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together? comments II
|
|
|
by N9DG on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
N2EY: "The way I figure it, if the FCC or anybody else wants me to retest, I'll just do it. Code, written, old test, new test, whatever, bring 'em on."
Yupp I agree, bring 'em on... I sometimes really do think that mandatory retesting is good idea.
N2EY: "What really matters is what one does with the license."
Precisely.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together? comments II
|
|
|
by NB3O on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Here is a post from another article by, xxxx. Just 1 example of what I was trying to say here. Comments? "
My Elmer taught me a couple simple rules a while back. Maybe they could also work for a few more ops on this forum.
Rule number 1: Get on the air. The internet is not a substitute for a good QSO.
Rule number 2: If you can't find a good QSO, spin the dial or check back later when propagation changes.
I've never been disappointed with the results.
73
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by NF7D on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Here Here Bob W7ETA -
I remember after getting my novice ticket, chasing drifting signals on my swan 350 hands shaking and palms sweating. Id give my self reasons not to reply to MORSE cq's out of fear. I did not want to fail with the big boys listening.... but I did and I would get ataboys from old hams that would slow down for me and give me the experience of practicing on them.
Very few of the new hams will experience that level of dedication and perseverance. Respect was earned and skills were built.
Man the world wants instant everything including respect.
A good many tech's treat me like dirt at hamfests.I have my call on my stick on badge.
Most are the socially ignorant engineer type's.
Id don't care, I move on with my personal memories of growth. This respect issue go's both ways I think there are more people that DEMAND not to be ignored now than 20 years ago.
Rich NF8V
Ex: KA7TZW, N7HMB, KK7PL, NF7D
PS: I started as a SWL with a old Nightkit radio I wish I still had. nobody has ever put me down for starting my radio interest with SWL.
Another thing iv noticed over the years no code tech' and the new generals...... some are primed for a fight before they key the mic on this issue.
enough said.............. I will listen to 40m cw for awhile and go to bed......G'Night
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KE7KUS on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
You must be spending too much time on 75m. I've been licensed about the same amount of time as you and have found I really like working 40m. Although others report OF's on 20m, I've had no trouble there either. I've had some great keyboard QSO's via PSK-31 on all bands, and it's rapidly becoming my favorite mode of operation. Bottom line for me is to move past the lids. If someone gives me grief over being a "new generation" ham, I note it in my logbook along with a note that starts with "LID:" and move on to the next contact. (These OF's are often easily identified because they can't ever seem to get the international phonetic alphabet right either and end up spelling out "SSB" as "SUGAR SUGAR BAKER" or "SARAH SALMON BREAKFAST" or some other equally inane thing.)
I've also dedicated myself to picking up code, and staying proficient at it, just to spite the OF's who like to throw around the "no-code" comments. My grandfather had several certificates for 35+ wpm code, so that's my goal. That way I can not only run circles around the OF's, but also let them know I wasn't forced to learn code, I CHOSE to do it.
Don't throw in the towel on amateur radio. There's too much to see and do on the air to let a few OF's get under your skin. Find your niche and run with it. It's a great hobby and too great to let a few OF's take away the fun. 73 and hope to catch you on the air.
Kurt
KE7KUS
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KA5ROW on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Welcome to Ham radio:
At the top of my web page ka5row.com it says I Earn my General 13 WPM.
It was hard to learn the code. It took me 28 days to get to 13 WPM. I would listen to CW tapes going to work and again on the way home, until I was sick of the code. Now I do not work CW. I learned the code for the sole purpose to talk on HF. "I have earned that right." Now that the code is gone. I expect that we will get expanded phone privileges in the next few years. "We will get them from the CW part of the band".
I stayed a Tech. For about 8 years. I did not want to put the effort out to upgrade. I wanted a new HF rig and thought what a waste. Sense I did little CW work, and I could talk on a small part of 10 M why get a new radio. So I just got in gear got my 13 WPM certification.
Now I hold no hard feelings toward you new guys. Code is no longer required so it is not your fault. I just make that statement on my web page as a badge of honor.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KE7OSV replied on his Article theme on March 8, 2009:
"Here is a post from another article by, NY7Q. Just 1 example of what I was trying to say here. Comments?"
NY7Q: "Most operators are nothing but operator-no coders nowadays. They know nothing about radio. Most are just internet computer jocks and think they are radio people. Not so. Too bad. I am glad I am part of the Real radio era."
Terry, THANK YOU for starting your Article. I go along with what you say from my direct experience, getting my USA amateur radio license (the only one I have) only 24 months ago. BRAVO! You have DARED to speak the TRUTH...which is difficult these days.
Stokes (NY7Q) says of himself on QRZ that he is "suffering heart problems and dementia." Poor kid, when I was his age (of now) back in 2007 I took my only amateur radio test, ever. Last year I took and passed my regular California DMV written. I even studied for my blood test before getting my annual physical last year. I passed all of them. What is going to happen now is ten kinds of shouting and hollering for SYMPATHY for this ailing male born in 1934. Makes me wonder how many OTHER olde-tymers are also suffering undiagnosed dementia. Those of us that show NO sympathy for NY7Q will be dragged through the streets and stoned? [I can almost guarantee it] There's some kind of totally weird mental viewpoint going on among olde-tymers versus 'newbies' that isn't much different than young toughs organizing 'hood gangs. We are supposed to "owe" our existance to "them."
I'll be fair, though, since I know - personally and from years ago - some licensed radio amateurs who are NOT clique-conscious or belong to "gangs" on radio. Most of them keep silent while the extremely verbose "toughs" want to bring out their "manly men" side of triumph and conquest. I can understand their "real people" silence.
"Computer jocks." Interesting phrase. Out of place since EVERY new HF transceiver, even VHF and UHF handhelds have at least one microcomputer in them today. No exceptions. At least two companies have designed and tried to market transceivers that demanded full-size personal computer equipments as the MAIN PART of their products, Kachina and DZ Engineering. DZ is still in business. I don't know the fate of the Kachina. Somebody's "computer jock strap" is on too tight. Could be it restricts the flow of blood to their brain? :-)
Funny thing on what NY7Q calls "real radio." Way back I was sent to another "real radio" facility while in the US Army. 36 HF transmitters ranging from 1 to 15 KW RF output, four operating teams making sure it was operational 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Not a single transistor in any of that equipment, all vacuum tube. Gollleeee but these here boatanchor types all swear that THEIR stuff is "real radio" and this new radio stuff "isn't as good." Offhand, after spending my career IN electronics for a few years (only 56 of them) I begin to wonder about the technical smarts of today's licensed (officially, by da gubmint) radio amateurs. I do hope they've learned by now that Spark is verboten in USA radio, all radio services, and that 'crystal sets' are cute toys for kiddies to play with, pretending they are "real radiomen." I've met one who cannot shake loose the idea that his two-tube regenerative receiver is 'superior' to something like a Collins military R-390! :-)
Well, I've been treated like dirt or river-bottom slime if not continually harrassed by 'superior' hams who have memorized every single word of QST from 1915 to the present. Some of that was on-air for not using 'official, appropriate' lingo/jargon...mostly it was on-line in 'discussion' forums where these 'superior' beings let all their spite and bitterness hang out in the open, parading around their 'manly' Ids like juveniles. Its getting tiresome to me. Same 'superior' mentalities at work in computerized forums just about anywhere I look, an increasing attitude of olde-fahrts 'taking over' on ham HF bands.
As an old person myself, I can understand their problems. I just don't have much sympathy for them. Don't have but one bad physical problem and I try to keep a youthful outlook, my brain sharp with mental exercise. That's not good enough for some of these 'superior' hams. They were in "real radio" where morse code mode was the epitome of that "real radio." Gollleee, those Gomers must be a LOT older than they say, like 30 or 40 years older to be active BEFORE World War II when that old definition might have been true.
A very long time ago, somewhere between 1947 when I first got curious about this 'radio' and around 1949 when I first got acquainted with she who is my wife now, I developed a fascination for electronics. I learned that 'radio' was only a PART of all electronics and that hams did NOT invent everything in 'radio.' That's never left me. The United States Army solidified that feeling when I lucked out and their assignment of me to a BIG HF communications station when I was 20.
Perhaps the evolution of that military station and HF communications in general is what makes some of these olde-fahrts bitter and claim 'superiority' to rationalize their obsolescence. The HF spectrum has pretty well become VOID of the old means of communications (better than 90 percent by teleprinter even a half century ago). The station I was assigned to was transferred to the USAF in 1963 and the USAF gave it all back to the Japanese government in 1978. Finis. HF as a comms medium has been relegated to minor useage, backup in case of calamitous, extraordinary destruction of the HUGE communications system by satellites and troposcatter and microwave relay and 'wired' fiber-optic lines that handle data at GigaHertz rates. Many of these olde-fahrts are bitter that they aren't 'looked up to' as mighty men of morse (if they ever really were). The ARRL tries very hard to keep their illusions alive with their propaganda but the ARRL cannot change with the times so it is all a constant re-run and their pages are getting more like "ham radio for dummies" style, endlessly repeating basics of electricity. Example: the NTS, always promoted WITHIN but never getting recognition OUTSIDE of amateur radio circles. The Internet far outstrips the speed and accuracy of the old, tired NTS, but participation in that keeps the illusion alive that olde-tymers are 'useful.'
Just some thoughts. I'm not, never have been a clinical psychologist (my wife is much closer to that as a retired Social Worker) but I've got a working mind that sorts through observation of over 6 decades. On all that, I got my Amateur Extra class license two years ago ANYWAY. :-) I gave me some more legality to transmit RF for my own experimentation and could care not one whit for "DXing" or "contesting" (in "radio sport" - hah). I'll talk to REAL PEOPLE and enjoy that more for "rag-chewing." :-)
Maybe I might develop (once again) a desire to pass on electronics knowledge to younger generations. Not to make ME look good, just because I find it fascinating and I've encounterd a few younger folks IN amateur radio who also think so. In these forums, though, any enthusiasm is immediately dampened by these windy 'superior' hams (who claim working in "real radio" of the 1930s) who insist I'm some kind of 'newbie' and 'nerd' and 'know-nothing' who doesn't realize that the ARRL has the monopoly on "all things radio." Hmmm...if the ARRL is so knowledgeable, why does W1AW use commercial (as in ready-built) radio equipment? Couldn't their mighty ARRL LABORATORY toss something together instead? Hmmmm? :-)
Gollleee, those Gomers could just sort through dumpsters to 're-cycle' tossed parts and save the ARRL budget woes, couldn't they? Nah, I'm not going to bother even if I've run some 'upgrade of knowledge programs' in corporate electronics. Too many hecklers who love to tear down anyone who has more experience in REAL radio than them.
No, the bottom line is that these olde-fahrts NEED the recognition and rank, status, privilege they THINK they once 'earned' in a HOBBY radio activity. Anyone who came into the hobby after puberty are considered dreck, merde, if not worse. They (these olde-fahrts) NEED worship of their Royalty status and expect it. I'm not going to give them anything until they prove they've got the chops to REALLY perform...not by the ARRL definition, by the REAL WORLD of 'RADIO.'
I'm trying to enjoy the HOBBY of amateur radio. I've lived my working life and part of my hobby life in REAL ELECTRONICS. I don't have any pretense of glory and conquest, it is just a HOBBY. It was never a religion despite some who worship the Mecca of a suburb of Hartford.
Terry, I don't think WE measure up to these olde-fahrts' definition of how the World SHOULD Be. We will never be welcome in their imaginary fantasyland. Maybe that's a GOOD thing. We have less danger from succumbing to their quasi-religious mental disorders.
73, Len AF6AY
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W6VPS on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
It seems to me this has turned into a whine fest. Not a one of us will ever be accepted by everyone in our hobbies, vocations and even our extended families.
Good grief...deal with it....move past the people who are less than nice to you. Listen, learn and behave according to the established policies and traditions of that in which you are involved. You think things are rough getting accepted and treated with respect in ham radio? Try your hand at breaking into law enforcement. I'll give you a hint...don't complain so much, listen, learn and emulate the good ones. Throttle back or hold off entirely on being opinionated. Acceptance will come slowly as you learn a lot more than you knew yesterday. You'll soon realize you have been accepted and your opinions have merit because of what you've learned and what you practice.
Paul/W6VPS
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KY6R on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I've made great friends with hams of all ages. I've only run into a few curmudgeons - and I like them - they give me plenty to smile and laugh about.
Kind of like good ol' "Fish" on Barney Miller. (Old TV show).
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AA5JG on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"'Computer jocks.' Interesting phrase. Out of place since EVERY new HF transceiver, even VHF and UHF handhelds have at least one microcomputer in them today. No exceptions."
WRONG! Go check out the MFJ 9406, 9402, and their single band HF radios.
73s John AA5JG
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KB4TPP on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry,
Welcome to amateur radio. Don't let the OF's drive you away. I am 33 and been a ham since I was 9, and feel your pain. Believe it or not, sometimes the OF's are trying in their own way to encourage you to upgrade- if you are interested in HF, go all the way. I myself am perfectly happy on VHF/UHF, digital (D-Star and P25) and use amateur radio as a tool to serve my community.
Thanks to an some anonymous encouragement, I am going for my General- mainly to serve as a VE, so I can get more folks involved in amateur radio.
I'll say this, amateur radio is a community much like a high school or college. There are plenty of "cliques" and circles of friends, and then there are lots of "loners". We all come together for the same purpose and are all here for the same ride. Ignore the haters and do what you are comfortable doing. If that is just 2M FM, or Echolink, or IRLP- do it and ENJOY it.
There are many people in the world who live in misery (and not just in ham radio) and make it their daily business to bring that to everyone else, as the old adage says "Misery Loves Company", so don't succumb to them, just ignore them and press on. Surround yourself with people who are about business and not whiners, and you will see things through a more positive light.
Don't give up, that would be just giving in to the haters, why fuel their fire? good luck and best wishes for a rewarding lifetime of amateur radio. Pass it on!
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by QRZDXR2 on March 8, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
And your point being...
What the old hams are really saying about you is true.. you got your license from the toy box. You really didn't have to go through the "work for it" like they did yet you got the rewards given to you.
But, if your going to whine about it, you might want some cheese to go with it.
What did you expect... you go take a test that most 3-5 year old can memorize now.. and you come into the hobby whining that your not appreciated or respected. Well neither are the old guys who are leaving the hobby to take up something else that is not so cluttered with Commucation Banders and week mindes polluters.
This all being said.. which I am sure you have heard it already, what do you expect ham radio to be? What are you going to make it. What are you going to do for the guy who wants you to help him in toyland?
You write like you want others to rally around your whining and finger pointing to the old ham radio guys.. when in fact it is you that is not up to par nor are contrubuting to the whole.
If you wanted glory, reconigition and phrase for passing a memory test.. go figure... harry did you find that lose nut? You came to the wrong hobby. You will find that to gain respect in any hobby you first have to earn it. Ya the old fashion way works but, if your a whining glory seeker that wants to wear the Orange or yellow .. I'm here to save the world shirt..ahttt wrong. I suggest that if this is what your looking for you need to take up a different hobby because your going to be very disapointed and let down when you relize... that it ain't so....
This the new Commucations Band hobby. Say hello, do a contest, and check into a net is about all your going to get from this hobby. (oh ya some groups run around with orange shirt on getting their egos boosted thinking that they are supermen. But the odds are 1 out of 1000 that you would even last a week in disaster condtions and want to go back home to mom.
You want to learn electronics and commucations.. go to school because your waisting your time here. No one is going to take you by the hand and put you on a throne and potty train you..
Whine away with your .. say it ain't so... but in the end we have seen your kind come and go.
So grow up and get over it.
You make ham radio what you want it to be...
if its not... what you thought it should be .. you know the drill.
Welcome to ham radio...quit whining
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by G3SEA on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
E Komo Mai ! Welcome to the hobby :)
As in society in general you will find a wide variety of people and attitudes no matter what ethnicity.
Many activities have their cliques etc.It's a human ' tribal ' thing ;)
Associate with those you are comfortable with and politely avoid the others.
Enjoy the hobby no matter what mode or system you use.
A true 'Professional ' Ham knows that they never stop learning especially in our ever changing technology. It's ok to have one foot in the past but the other should be in the future ;)
73 & Aloha ! :)
KH6/G3SEA
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KG4CLD on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Remember this day carefully and a little nervously.
Some day, the shoe will be on the other
foot. Today you complain because you are the
receiver. How will you feel when it is you who is
the transmitter?
You don't think you will do that to someone else?
Well, here's a wake up call, you're doing it right
now! Your doing it with this forum!
Everyone gets old, its no secret. One good way to
deal with people that jabber on about you not earning
your previleges is to simply laugh it off, then like
a good conversationalist, change the subject to
something new. Don't give that G.O.B.'ler (Grumpy
Old Ba$#$*&#) a chance to regroup. Some GOB'lers
thrive on the misery of others. Dont let them gobble
you up!!
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by DJ0MBC on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
For what it's worth, a General Class license will no longer get you CEPT license in Europe. They are considered not technically sufficient for European license requirements.
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by WB4AEJ on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Well,
I do think that some of the newer hams could show a little more sensitivity to the more experienced hams.
I did the 20 WPM Extra in 1990 and am proud of it. Times have changed and so be it. But I really get turned off when the new hams say things like they never would have gotten into ham radio if they had been required to learn the code. They are basically flaunting it under the nose of those who did accomplish it and it's rather distasteful to them. In fact, it is often taken it as 'haha, I didn't have to do as much to get my license as you did. I didn't have to work as hard. You're an idiot for doing all of that.'
There was a group of hams that were advocating that the code requirement be dropped altogether. They had an online petition and were asking that all that supported this effort contact them. Just by using their online contact form, your name was added to this petition. They made no means available for those who opposed dropping the code requirement to contact them and express an opposing view. It was very insensitive. It took some doing, but I found an alternative way to contact them. And when I did I told them so.
It is best not to say anything about it at all especially on the ham bands. It's purely a matter of tact and respect. In fact, you could learn a lot from those folks. I realize that not all of them will respond to this method, but a lot of them would. Just show them a little respect for their accomplishments and don't flaunt the fact that you didn't have to learn the code. Ask them about their experience with ham radio. You'll be surprised how many of them would come around and be a source of support.
Yes, we *are* all in this together. But when you criticize the older hams, remember that it is a two way street. Many of them feel a little violated.
It's frightening to think about but what if they someday drop the written test requirement? Then the ham bands would turn into another citizens band service. How would you feel after you got into amateur radio for fifteen or twenty years and this happened? You'd hear people on the bands bragging about how they didn't have to take the written tests like all the many thousands of other hams did. How would you feel?
73,
Fred, WB4AEJ
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by WB4AEJ on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry,
I reread your original post. Let me quote something that you said:
'The only thing that has stopped me is the fact that I do realize this is just coming from a one particular group of hams. Mostly, the older ones, in their senior years, who have been licensed for about a century!'.
Maybe you can see what I said about some of the newer hams being insensitive? You refered to them as 'have been licensed for a century'. That isn't taken well. You are implying that they are old and senile folks. Is it any wonder that many of them do not take it well?
When you openly criticize like you did, perhaps you should think about how you are being perceived by these folks in their 'senior years'.
You'll be in your senior years one day yourself.
Fred, WB4AEJ
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by K9MHZ on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry,
Welcome to the real world. With the possible exception of a church, no place on the planet is going to unconditionally welcome you just because you decide to show up. There are friendly folks out there and there are others who aren't. Is this new to you?
As a suggestion......try and network with some newer hams in your area and learn and engage in activities that appeal to you. This will be much more beneficial than castigating an entire group of people as old, mean, etc.
Best,
Brad
K9MHZ
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W8JII on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I think you're over reacting a little. It's silly to consider giving up Ham Radio because of some crusty old farts. I'm older than dirt and remember receiving some of the same things you experinced and this was 57 years ago. One particular instance comes to mind. A group was upset over my call because it was a re issue and now some 15 year old punk had it. I didn't even know calls were re-issued. I'm still not sure they were right.
As the new kid someone is going to take pot shots at you. Live with it. Ignore these people. There are many of us that don't care how old you are, how much electronics you know, or if you like CW. Spend more time listening and you'll find many people that you have common interests with. 73 Ron
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by NY7Q on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
No, the bottom line is that these olde-fahrts NEED the recognition and rank, status, privilege they THINK they once 'earned' in a HOBBY radio activity. Anyone who came into the hobby after puberty are considered dreck, merde, if not worse. They (these olde-fahrts) NEED worship of their Royalty status and expect it. I'm not going to give them anything until they prove they've got the chops to REALLY perform...not by the ARRL definition, by the REAL WORLD of 'RADIO.'
Not a true statement Len. You are, by admittance here, a newbie yourself, even tho' you say you are "old"...
You were handed the same newbie tests, no cw. Oh yeah, you were a pro electronics person in your long life time....Not the same old man.
Yes, we earned our rank, status and privilege through hard work and study. Have the chops to really perform??? now, thats a statement!!!
Believe it or not, some of us OFs obtained 1st Tele licenses and worked hard at it, study and work that carried over into our RADIO hobby of amateur radio.
Your haven't earned your due yet Len.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W9CN on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Well Terry you can certainly see the cross section of this hobby come out of the woodwork!!
As a Tech then a post code General and then Extra I have seen a fair amount of this too. My suggestion is like that of many others that have been posted here. FInd a group that fits your style and join it. Might be the local 2m repeater club or ARES (they are always looking for new members) or VHF club or whatever you can find. You can use the internet to find local HAM organizations (google HAM radio or repeaters and your city).
Don't let the "I am better than you because I walked 4 miles both ways uphill in a snowstorm to get my ticket" folks discourage you in the least. I had a couple of those too when I got started and they either came around or went away.. In either case there are plenty of folks that will be happy to welcome you into the fold out there, your job is to find them!
And you don't have to be a student of Marconi with a degree from DeForest and Armstrong to contribute. And all of those folks with the "I am better than you because I took the real test" were all LIDS/ Wouff-Hong award winners at one point or another just like all of us were.
And this problem has been going on since the first spark gap transmitters hit the airways in 1917!
http://www.w1ujr.net/rotten_radio_org.htm
This hobby has plenty of room for all of us.
Best of luck and '73
Mike Pappas
W9CN
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by VE3FMC on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hi Terry
Yes we are all in this great hobby together.
Sorry you had some bad experiences, but do not quit the hobby because of a few people who make you feel unwanted.
When I was licensed back in 1992 I can not recall running into any "Old timers" who made me feel unwanted.
Then again I operated VHF for 1 1/2 years before I went to HF. I also had some HF experience as my Father is an Amateur.
Ignore those who think they are better than others. They get out of bed in the morning just like the rest of us do!
Have fun with the hobby, make some new friends. If you want to have some really great QSO's start operating the digital modes, or CW. I have never run into a nasty person on those modes!
73, Rick
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W5ESE on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Welcome to amateur radio, and I hope that you
enjoy it as much as I have over the past 33 years.
N2EY hit it right on.
I think it might help you a bit to understand how
the older amateurs feel, and put yourself in their
shoes a little.
Amateur Radio has changed a lot over the last
several decades, and not all long-time amateurs
are able to accept the changes with equal levels
of grace.
It's not easy for some of them to accept that
something that they once worked hard for has
been cheapened.
And make no mistake about it. That has happened.
(to both the Morse and written elements). If
you don't believe it, buy an old license manual
at a swap fest or used bookseller.
Think about it. How would you feel?
As a (fairly) long time amateur myself, I agreed
with the sentiment of the following article that
appeared in a CW net newsletter.
I agree with it.
73
Scott
W5ESE
------------------------------------------------
News we don’t like to hear, but it has happened:
FCC modifies the Amateur Radio Service rules,
eliminating Morse code exam requirements. The
new rules become effective at 12:01 AM Eastern
Time Friday February 23, 2007.
But…see ---’s suggestions below:
Hello Everyone:
As many of us suspected after reviewing the initial
Omnibus Report and Order, the FCC has eliminated
the CW examination requirement for all classes of
Amateur Radio License. This will be a critical time
in the future of CW, but all is not lost.
First, it is important to acknowledge how many
"older" operators feel. There is a temptation to
feel marginalized by these recent regulatory changes.
Those of us who worked hard to learn CW, become
proficient with the mode, and pass examinations
before an FCC examiner at 20-wpm tend to feel as if
the certificate we worked for has been cheapened.
Those that held the First Class Radiotelephone
license and in exchange were given what many
referred to as "a scrap of paper" in the form of
the GROL will likely relate to this. From a
personal perspective, and on a purely emotional
level, I am half tempted to no longer refer to
myself as an "Amateur Radio Operator." After all,
when I went through the various licensing degrees,
one had to spend weeks or months learning CW and
studying theory to obtain a license. Today, it
will be possible to obtain a General Class License
in a day in the same manner as is currently being
done with the Technician License. The value of the
title "Amateur Radio Operator" does somehow seem
less valuable. However, these feelings and
perspectives are ultimately counterproductive.
In the initial period after this latest FCC
decision, the Amateur Service will likely see a
major influx of new voice-only operators. Most
of these individuals will stay on voice, and much
of the demand for new licensing will likely come
from individuals who either refused to learn CW,
or failed to invest the time to engage in the
more rigorous licensing process. Once this demand
is satiated, it is likely that the long-term,
problematic issues of visibility, member
recruitment and retention, and overall relevancy
will remain. Therefore, it is important that
everyone's response to these changes is positive
and constructive. As such, I would like to offer
some thoughts or perspectives for your
consideration:
We will gain nothing by creating a "caste system"
based on telegraph proficiency or any other
standard. Attempts on the part of operators to
belittle, isolate, or otherwise single-out
individuals as "no-code" licensees or by otherwise
implying they are not "real hams" will likely be
very counterproductive. Such an approach was taken
by some misguided individuals after the
implementation of the no-code technician license and
it did much harm to the Amateur Service and CW in
particular. We do not want to take any actions,
which may close off the minds of new Amateurs to
CW. However, this is not to say we shouldn't take
pride in our CW skills and interests. Let's just
make a commitment today to avoid and discourage
divisive behavior amongst our peers.
If CW is to survive, we must do everything we
can to promote it. Ultimately, I have found the
best way to promote any art form is through
one-on-one mentorship. There will likely be many
who will obtain the "easy" ham licenses now
available, but will find something lacking; a
feeling of accomplishment. Over time, the better
class of individuals will come to realize that
there must be something more than just talking
into a microphone or typing on a keyboard. Such
individuals, if exposed to CW through the right
approach, will be likely candidates to become CW
operators. If the quality of conversation and
operating practices does degrade, many individuals
will be looking for an alternative. Let's offer
them the best.
In some respects, the latest Report and Order may
be beneficial. No longer will CW be the scapegoat
for all of Amateur Radio's ills. Many of the
"complainers" in the no-code groups will have to
face the reality that it is not CW that is keeping
young people out of the hobby, but rather issues of
poor visibility in modern society and a perceived
lack of relevancy. Such problems can only be solved
through outreach, education, and public relations.
These later solutions require true effort, planning,
intellectual discipline, and financial investment;
not simplistic solutions such as "get rid of CW."
We have wasted nearly two decades arguing about the
CW exams when the real problems are elsewhere.
Perhaps now, we will get down to business.
------------------------------------------------
|
| |
|
RE: Its arrl's fault.
|
|
|
by W9WHE-II on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
New hams should understand that many "old hams" are (rightly or wrongly) angry. They are angry at arrl for pushing to "dumb down" the standards nad bringing ham radio that much closer to CB, all to fill arrl's coffers with more money.
New hams can minimize this by leaving their "CB lingo" on 11 meters and learning about ham radio's technical aspects.
So-called old hams han help by showing the way.
But arrl will just have to take responsibillity for its efforts to "dumb down" the hobby. its perminantly damaged ham radio, created a rift among hams and has generally resulted in a field that has fallen FAR BEHIND the rest of the radio world.
W9WHE
Proud to have CANCELLED my arrl membership!
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KC2QEZ on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I'm a new General, and fortunately I have not run across any elitists. Stick with it, there are a lot of great folks out there.
And CQ me anytime you hear me!
Mark
KC2QEZ
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W2DAB on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I agree will all who have counseled to ignore the cranky pants set who are probably grumpy about many other things as well*
I am in your catagory and was labeled on this forum as "one of those new no code/vanity hams" by some guy who bragged that I didn't do anything to earn my General while he was more genuine because he earned his advanced ticket the real way. The guy went on the say that he would NEVER upgrade to extra because his ticket showed that he "did something" and was bitter because they "took his challenge away".
I think that you do your own challenging of yourself and don't worry about what others think, take the advice to keep on the air and just blow by the "nattering nabobs of negativity"(hi hi Spiro Agnew).
I am using my ticket and new found operating license to build my own QRP rigs and expand my knowledge of radio engineering principals. My self study will never end and in the end it's the fun you have - not what a minority of people in the hobby say.
73 - David - W0DAB
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by WB2WIK on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>Aren't We All In This Together? Reply
by KC2QEZ on March 9, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I'm a new General, and fortunately I have not run across any elitists. Stick with it, there are a lot of great folks out there.
And CQ me anytime you hear me!
Mark
KC2QEZ<
"And CQ me anytime you hear me?"
Oops, this is the kind of thing some here were talking about.
;-)
WB2WIK/6
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AF3Y on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Mark
KC2QEZ<
"And CQ me anytime you hear me?"
What??? WHAT??? Good Lord...... CQ Me? CQ Me??? You MUST be kidding, right? Please say you are kidding.
If not, please do a little, NO, make that a LOT of, listening before you operate again. Gene
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by NARUNAS on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KC2TLL here - I can say welcome to Ham radio! even if you might just have your ticket punched a few month before me! Nevertheless - welcome! I must say that my experience starting 2m/70cm mobile has been quite positive. Always "Welcomed to the hobby" when I state my inexperience on the local repeaters in NYC area, especially the Limarc, and everyone to a man, or a woman, have been helpful! Ham radio is not my hobby, I must admit, rag chew is not my cup of tea, and topics rarely peak my interest on the "morning drive" or pre-net evening - NEVERTHELESS - I have found several niche fields, like computer modes, to be absolutely fascinating, and something that would make me stay up half the night... And that is a hobby by any definitions. And my point is - Amateur Ham radio is so many things!! Even if, in my opinion, it lost it's shine because of cell phones and internet, the possibilities of combining the old and the new, spanning the technologies to make a new sum of parts is exactly what Amateur radio is about! And one curious point - after getting more time on the HF, and hearing the ti,ti,ta,ti's of CW come through loud and clear in worst conditions - I feel in awe! Enjoy the hobby!
73,
KC2TLL
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by WI7B on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry,
There are a couple of really nice HF nets (e.g., OMISS, 3905, etc.) that welcome newcomers and can help you work towards your WAS award, among others. Good experience in making QSOs, meeting folks, and having HF radio available to you every night on multiple bands.
73,
---* Ken
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KF7CG on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
When I was a new Ham, some 37 years ago, there were these groups of OFs that did the same thing to all the newcomers. Just give the part of radio that works for you time and the problems with dissappear naturally.
Man, you got it good. People have to do a little snooping if you operating technique blends well. Back when you stood out immediately when you signed your call. All the Novices were branded with "N" calls. Not, N,(letter), number, suffix but things like wn0lid or the like. Until it was made renewable, that "N" would brand you as a newcomer until you upgraded or your license expired.
Cheer up and have fun, If it is "I tell you, I don't get no Respect!" then just do your best and have fun anyway. (With apologies to Rodney Dangerfield)
KF7CG
(nope it's not a vanity call, just the third call I ever had)
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KL7AJ on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
My motivation for writing the Opus of Amateur Radio Knowledge and Lore (which looks like it may be eventually published...stay tuned!) was to serve as a virtual elmer. Its intent is to pass along all the arcane "inner circle" information to the new ham BEFORE he or she even gets on the air.
It's impossible to know where we're going without knowing where we've been. The Opus tries to convey a sense of history (and wonder!) about radio that is neglected in most of the current "recruitment" literature.
Why do we teach history in school? Not that we expect kids to wear powdered wigs and waistcoats. But to put our current knowledge inside some kind of context. Amateur radio should be no different. The past sets some kind of TRAJECTORY for the future.
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N8EKT on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Sorry for your experience.
But welcome to ham radio.
And thank you for calling attention to a problem we must strive to correct.
I feel I'm also guilty of being a cranky old ham.
Even though I havn't been a ham nearly as long as many.
Ham radio is a great HOBBY and should never be regarded as much more.
When it ceases to be fun, it's time to move on.
You will also find that you need to be very thick skinned to post on Eham or QRZ.
The criticism sometimes comes fast and plentiful if you misspeak or make a mistake.
But don't take it personally, many times it's just cranky ole hams like me that forget my manners!
Again, WELCOME!
and 73,
N8EKT
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KL7AJ on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
A little further comment
I would say that most of the perceived problems with newcomers is not the fault of the newcomers at all, but rather the way we've been recently RECRUITING them. Most of the methods I've seen seem so UNNATURAL for lack of a better word. This happens with any "product" you try to "sell." The organic magnetism that brought most of us into the hobby just isn't there for most new hams. Rather than "growing into" the hobby, they are "dropped" into it, without any context.
At the risk of becoming persona non-grata in my own hobby, I can almost unequivocally say that most former CBers actually have more of an interest in radio for the sake of radio than a lot of the "coerced" techs that we've had come through lately. At least the CBers have some context in which to put radio, and are looking for something different.
I think the numbers emphasis is greatly misplaced. We need to let it sell itself, IMHO.
Eric
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W7NWH on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
CQ me, CQ me.. de W7NWH... Can I count myself as a contact?
I think one thing lacking in the new generation is respect. I respect my elders in this hobby and in life in general. HR is a culture based on a 100 years of tradition. One thing that keeps it vital is conforming to basic HR operating practice and carefully helping this evolve.
Radio technology changes but the lingo and good operating practice should live on.
So I won't CQ you on the channel anytime soon!
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KJ4IDH on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Well, as a recent no-code general I have heard and been targeted by some of the "old timers". Life is full of them. Fortunately my first HF contact was with KS4UN on 80m, we chatted for quit sometime, and he gave me some pointers, congratulated me on my license and sent me a QSL card, which I have framed over my rig and display with pride! The world is full of miserable folks that will try to drag you down, don’t let them! I’m having a blast with radios and hope you do too. Hope to catch you on the air!
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by WD9FUM on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
'Why do we teach history in school?'
History teaches how yesterday's mistakes are turned into today's disasters.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by VE3ZXQ on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
"Good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement" Anonymous
Welcome...even north of the 49th parallel, we'd be happy to chat with you...6 meter band looks good, try it!!
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by G7VOT on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Amateur radio is not alone at having these sort of people, in fact you will find them in all walks of life and in every hobby.
If you are going to quit a hobby because of a few people with attitude then what are you going to quit next? LIFE?
Stick with it and don't be deflated by the ego's and show them you're better than them.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KL7AJ writes: "I would say that most of the perceived problems with newcomers is not the fault of the newcomers at all, but rather the way we've been recently RECRUITING them.
I agree 100%.
KL7AJ: "Most of the methods I've seen seem so UNNATURAL for lack of a better word. This happens with any "product" you try to "sell.""
One of the problems is that amateur radio isn't just one 'product', but a whole bunch of them.
One ham is working weak-signal grayline CW DX on 160 with the latest rig, another is in an old-buzzard roundtable on 75 AM with vintage equipment, a third is trying out QRP PSK31 on 20, a fourth is mobile on 2 meter FM with a handheld, a fifth is getting set up for EME on 1296 with all-homebrew equipment....the list goes on and on. All different, yet all of them, and much much more, are "real" ham radio.
How do you 'sell' something that diverse?
KL7AJ: "The organic magnetism that brought most of us into the hobby just isn't there for most new hams. Rather than "growing into" the hobby, they are "dropped" into it, without any context."
I don't know what you mean by 'organic magnetism', but maybe that's just me.
One thing the old Novice license and the entire structure did was to set up a pretty clear learning path. Newcomers didn't have to follow it, but it was there for them.
KL7AJ: "At the risk of becoming persona non-grata in my own hobby, I can almost unequivocally say that most former CBers actually have more of an interest in radio for the sake of radio than a lot of the "coerced" techs that we've had come through lately. At least the CBers have some context in which to put radio, and are looking for something different."
The term I use is "radio for its own sake". That's the essential part of Amateur Radio; it's the journey, not the destination.
I think *some* cb folks have that idea, but for many others, cb was simply a way to express themselves in the pre-internet days. At least around here, cb has all but disappeared.
KL7AJ: "I think the numbers emphasis is greatly misplaced. We need to let it sell itself, IMHO."
The big problem is lack of publicity. Many people don't know Amateur Radio even exists, or if they do, their image is quite inaccurate. (When someone finds out I'm a ham and then wants to know my "handle" and what channel I'm on, I know I have a lot of explaining to do).
When was the last time you saw Amateur Radio portrayed in a positive way on a TV show, in a movie, major magazine, etc.? Or even portrayed at all?
"Radio for its own sake" isn't something many folks will be interested in, regardless of how it is sold. But we won't get anyone if they don't know about it.
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
One big put on.
|
|
|
by AI2IA on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Come on! What buffoons would take this seriously?
Older hams are to be considered the boogey men?
This "article" is just a provocation.
Only fools would take sides on this phoney.
It is deserving of only one comment:
Ham radio is whatever you make it for yourself.
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by G0GQK on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
There are always people who are unsympathetic to bad manners, and the first of the respondents wasn't particularly helpful. Some people like the idea of giving newcomers in lots of activities, a baptism of fire.
Many of the recent radio amateurs in the UK complain of the rudeness shown to them by others who hold a full license, but to me, if they've passed an examination, and have a call sign why should I not show them how radio amateurs should converse with each other whether they be a 2E0 or a G0.
Kind regards Mel G0GQK
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
NY7Q got angry on March 9, 2009:
[AF6AY wrote previously] "No, the bottom line is that these olde-fahrts NEED the recognition and rank, status, privilege they THINK they once 'earned' in a HOBBY radio activity. Anyone who came into the hobby after puberty are considered dreck, merde, if not worse. They (these olde-fahrts) NEED worship of their Royalty status and expect it. I'm not going to give them anything until they prove they've got the chops to REALLY perform...not by the ARRL definition, by the REAL WORLD of 'RADIO.'"
NY7Q: "Not a true statement Len. You are, by admittance here, a newbie yourself, even tho' you say you are "old"..."
I "say" I am old?!? Chronologically, I am 76 now, got my first-ever amateur radio license at 74. The Department of Defense knows my age, the Department of the Army knew my age, the Social Security Administration still knows my age, plus the IRS, the Franchise Tax Board of California, the state of Illinois did and California DMV still does know, the federal agencies of the FCC, NSA, CIA, and DoE know my true age. Oddly enough, I've got copies of all the documents of those named agencies proving that my chronological age is what it IS. It isn't what I "SAY" it is.
YOU SAY I am a 'newbie.' ONLY for an AMATEUR radio LICENSE. My first FCC Radiotelephone Operator license was granted in March, 1956...which was 53 years ago. The U.S.Army made me a Signal Corps soldier in late March, 1952, assigned me to the third-largest Army radio station ADA in Tokyo, Japan, in early February, 1953. The US Army didn't need any 'license certificate' to have me or any other personnel at ADA operate 36 HF transmitters ranging from 1 to 15 KW RF output (expanded later to 42 transmitters ranging from 1 to 40 KW by end of 1955). Not to mention ALSO being an operator of VHF-UHF radio relay equipment, TTY and
Voice 'carrier' equipment or how our station had to perform in the worldwide ACAN. That was just in my first three years as a professional. Since then, as a CIVILIAN I began work in southern California aerospace electronics in November, 1956, doing everything from Environmental Test, Radar Set testing, Electronic Warfare R&D, Metrology (test equipment calibration, repair), IFF transponder development, circuit and system design for RF-utilizing R&D projects under DoD and DoT contracts of employers, even to having a partnership utilizing a PLMRS VHF two-way radio Commercial-Professional license in which I was the signatory responsible person. That can also include civil aviation radio comm and nav test equipment (VHF on up to L-Band for DME and TACAN) and as a broadcast engineer at four broadcasting stations in Illinois-Wisconsin (in 1956) plus one in California (in 1961).
I am leaving out some contract work for VLF, special HF direction-finding, and field testing of encrypted land forces field radio (USA and USMC) which may still have some security classification (unknown) today. I've left out membership in the Old Crows (a professional association of Electronic Warfare specialists) and Life Membership in the IEEE (another
professional association of Electrical and Electronic Engineers)...and being a contributor to and later Associate Editor at Ham Radio Magazine. Yah, I be a 'noobie' who don' know 'nuttin since I NEVER took any beeping code test...:-)
NY7Q: "You were handed the same newbie tests, no cw."
Hay, like kiss my yes, big-shot. On 25 Feb 07 I was administered the SAME LEGAL tests for, respectively, Technician, General, and Amateur Extra test elements as any other license applicant would be given; I was the only one that day doing ALL THREE in front of an ARRL VEC examination team, composed of N6ZZK, KF6UXT, W6LPJ, and KD6PLU, all Extras. I passed all three tests with a total of 120 questions, missing only 6 wrong. That's a 95% correct score, observed of all four examiners separately checking all three score scheets; examiners do not give out score percentages, only if one passes or fails. The observant folks can determine an approximate score percentage as I did. There were NO "newbie tests," snarky big-shot.
ANYONE, previously licensed or not, were all given the SAME type of test sheets from the prepared ones from each examination team. More importantly, THERE WAS NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT TO TAKE ANY MORSE CODE COGNITION TESTS FOR A UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AMATEUR RADIO LICENSE ON OR AFTER 23 FEBRUARY 2007. NONE. It didn't matter if one was chronologically 'old' or young, previously licensed in anything or even be an ex-USN 'hotshot' CW operator.
.............
NY7Q: "Oh yeah, you were a pro electronics person in your long life time....Not the same old man."
WHAT is that supposed to mean? I never started out 'automatically equipped' with all kinds of smarts like some imply. I never had all those 'advantages' (that N2EY kept trying to imply) but had to WORK and STUDY just like anyone else who wanted to advance and learn and try to keep up with the electronics state of the art. I started being a Pro in 1952 and was still a Pro in 2008 (haven't done any Pro contract work in 2009 yet).
..............
NY7Q: "Yes, we earned our rank, status and privilege through hard work and study."
WTF did you think I did, dipswitch? Hah? I wasn't sitting around slugging beer, reflecting on glory days in a Navy radioroom as a 'hotshot CW op' while dress whites kept 'shrinking.'...or playing at being a Professional Amateur with a code key in the latter half of the past century. 'Rank, status, and privilege' were there to 'earn' AFTER they were put there POLITICALLY. That's REAL history, not the simplified-expurgated ARRL 'history' of ham. In the beginning there were NO classes based on testing...by mid-2000 there were SIX...after 88 years and 4 different federal agencies regulating USA radio...ALL civil radio here, not just a bunch of radio hobbyists 'earning' fancy titles of 'importance.'
...............
NY7Q: "Believe it or not, some of us OFs obtained 1st Tele licenses and worked hard at it, study and work that carried over into our RADIO hobby of amateur radio."
Well, goodie for you. As a 'hotshot CW op' in the USN did you enlist ALEADY being capable of near-perfect copy on a manual typewriter at 20 WPM rates? Or did the USN TEACH you while providing three hots and cot...and make you PRACTICE until you were either good enough or tossed into some other seaman rank/specialty? Did you?
In 1955 the Selective Service was DRAFTING into the USA and USMC. Some, to avoid being shot at directly, joined the USN and USAF. That is also history. The Korean War shooting period lasted June 1950 to July 1953. I enlisted voluntarily in March, 1952. I was sent to Fort Monmouth, NJ, to study microwave radio relay. I was then assigned to the Far East Command
and wound up at the Signal Battalion and station I've mentioned before. It would be nearly two years before I was working my MOS. During that period I was REQUIRED to learn, use, operate radio equipment that I was NEVER schooled in; it was LEARN it by study and a brief on-the-job 'training' explanation. We either performed good enough or we got re-assigned.
About two that I recall couldn't cut it and were shipped elsewhere. We didn't sit around 'reading meters' or other easy BS that some other hotshot CW ops have said to me. Those never realize that the Army had the primary mission of "to close with, and destroy the enemy." In short we were "soldiers first, specialists second." Ask anyone who was a soldier
with a non-line-outfit specialty in the early 1950s. Sailors whose specialty is being 'hotshot CW ops' live IN a ship, aren't forced to train to get very up-close-and-personal (that is, face to face) with any enemy...during whatever free time they have AFTER pulling watch in a radio room. Oh, yeah, USA and USMC personnel had to learn to live anywhere IN the field, not in a nice steel shelter of a ship, quaking only when a GQ klaxon sounds off. Don't give me any glorious war stories, sparky.
I won't bother with any description of CIVILIAN work where I HAD to learn new stuff AND use it properly after MY Personal study...or fail to get a regular paycheck. That bothers most other AMATEUR hotshot CW ops whose ONLY professional radio work (if any) was as a civilian.
..............
NY7Q: "Your haven't earned your due yet Len."
Up yours, hotshot CW op, I never HAD to learn 'CW' or use it from 1952 onwards. I've received LEGAL documentation that I passed ALL REQUIRED TESTS to have an Amateur Extra USA amateur radio license. NONE of that REQUIRES me to salute each and every hotshot CW op NOR prohibits me for speaking MY mind to those same hotshots. Got that, sparky? Do you read that loud and clear?
...............
I decided late in life to enter USA amateur radio. Perhaps it was too much enthusiasm left over from seeing 'my side' of a political battle becoming law. I really thought it might be a fun thing to do in my retirement. Okay, I was WRONG in that supposition. I find all the rampant cliquishness alive and in full battle cry to claim They are so spay-shul, to have all regulations in amateur radio frozen to those when and what clique did in its youth and wants all others to do now...Just Like They Did. Enjoy your pseudosuperiority, sparky, it won't last long.
36.5, Len AF6AY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
WB4AEJ tried the 'seniority' ploy on March 9, 2009 in response to Terry Deuel:
"When you openly criticize like you did, perhaps you should think about how you are being perceived by these folks in their 'senior years'. You'll be in your senior years one day yourself."
Here's a clue, hotdog: I was 74 when I took my ONLY amateur radio test. I fully agree with Terry since I've since been 'corrected' on-air by those same not-wonderful 'senior' critics, as well as continuously attacked for my viewpoints off-air on forums AND in FCC documents.
Kindly don't try this "I'm older and know better than you" parental BS attitude. It is just snarky and ego-centric...particularly for a HOBBY activity. Don't forget that I have lived among all of these chronological age types and observed ALL their personal attitude variations for over half a century. It isn't always a pretty sight.
Ever since 1991, USA amateur radio has been (sometimes bitterly) DIVIDED by RANK, especially when the no-code-test Technician class was created. Heck and darn, the DIVISION goes back well before 1991, all the way to when all the rank-status-privilege Class Distinction BEGAN in USA amateur radio. Those who achieved higher Rank sometimes out-do each other with claims of 'superiority.'
At the time of the first USA radio regulating agency starting in 1912, there was NO class distinction other than geographical. Of course the ARRL wouldn't be incorporated until 1914. By 1997 there were 6 classes, very distinct by test, with 3 different code cognition rates of that license test. The ONLY national organization for USA amateur radio was then 83. After 3 previous federal agencies, the FCC, came into existance in 1934. I am two years older than the FCC. :-)
By 1998 it seems that the FCC didn't think SIX different classes were necessary in the PUBLIC interest so docket 98-143 was created and NPRM released for public (note I say PUBLIC, it wasn't amateur-licensee-only) comment. In Memorandum Report and Order 99-612 (released in December 1999), 'restructuring' happened, effective in mid-2000. The number of new license classes were reduced to THREE and ALL code test rates set at 5 WPM. Previous to 1998 there were several Petitions for restructuring and the ARRL actively did their polical lobbying to HALT any possible reduction of the Class Distinction. The ARRL lobbying was only partially effective. Anyone can pay attention to footnote references in R&O 99-612 to see that. It is THERE. For a while the ARRL just didn't bother, but they had to introduce 2 of the 18 Petitions to keep that Class Distinction going as long as possible. The ARRL failed to get their way. Restructuring remained. By 2005 the FCC released docket 05-235, the "end of the world" NPRM (for olde-tymer hotshot CW ops) that would eliminate ALL code testing for ANY USA amateur radio license test. I thought it Was About Time the FCC listened to the PUBLIC instead of some minority special-interest group headquartered in a suburb of Hartford. The FCC of 2006 that released R&O 06-178 on December 19, 2006, was a modern, up-to-date Commission, thinking ahead, and NOT listening solely to or being influenced by a minority special interest group.
What really happened in the USA amateur world of 2007 was that lots of olde-tymers LOST the LAST of their bragging rights...namely the Extras. Now, there's nothing wrong in my eyes of being good at ANY skill, but such skill isn't the driving force that should affect ALL who might want to enter a hobby radio activity via federal licensing. ALL that olde-tymers could brag about now is their TENURE as a licensed amateur...and, of course, fish stories about being hotshot CW operators or high-scoring 'radiosport' winners and the like. Tenure in a hobby is mostly the good fortune of having as few as possible physical defects, not to mention being gifted with an aptitude for abstract things like monotonic on-off patterns...and the ability to pass those 'awsome, rocket-science-level, very hard' TESTS. The way some olde-tymers go about describing Their TESTS is that it was the equivalent of a Nobel Prize. Ptui. It never was that hard.
I can sympathize with the deflation of egos among the braggarts. I pity them, not for their loss of alleged 'rights,' but on their egocentrisity in thinking that their hobby skills were of some National Use...or that the entire radio world had remained as static as special interest groups tried to publicize it for so long.
Me, I'm not having Delusions of Grandeur, I am a realist, a Pro in electronics and communications for over half a century. Yeah, I'm also chronologically old but there are NO signs of dementia in my brain yet. I don't need 'bragging rights.' I am content with what I've done. I am definitely NOT content to be some kind of emotional sustenance to feed the gaping mental maws of I-am-better/holier-than-you chronological contemporaries in a hobby activity. :-)
73, Len AF6AY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N9DG on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KL7AJ: “I would say that most of the perceived problems with newcomers is not the fault of the newcomers at all, but rather the way we've been recently RECRUITING them. Most of the methods I've seen seem so UNNATURAL for lack of a better word. This happens with any "product" you try to "sell." The organic magnetism that brought most of us into the hobby just isn't there for most new hams. Rather than "growing into" the hobby, they are "dropped" into it, without any context."
Very well put. I have noticed over the years that things that are heavily “sold” tend to attract only those who continuously need to be “sold” something. When the “selling” stops, they lose interest and move on. And I think that is what usually happens after the 'weekend license cram courses' are completed and the license test(s) are passed. Those new or upgraded licensees soon find themselves having to take some personal initiative to get on and be active somehow, or to pursue any one of the myriad of different things that there is to do in amateur radio. But yet many of them can't find a single thing to do, they probably have never really thought about it before starting. Some others are immediately drawn into the world of “EMCOMM”. That is also a highly “sold” endeavor, so some will indeed stick with that, - for awhile.
In both cases I have observed a very high attrition rate of new licensees. Contrast that with those who more or less “stumbled” into amateur radio and became curious about it, and then one area of curiosity leads to another and so on. Those folks are more typical of those who stick with it for decades, they do it simply for the love of it.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by NY7Q on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Well Len, I am not mad at anyone. I think I am beginning to like you, respect you.
in person, we might even become good friends.
I did get you riled up tho'
It's a game with me. Sorry Len
So, I'll leave with my head down, tail between my legs, and you having the very last intelligent words of wisdom, with anger.
I apologize for making you so angry.
I truly am sorry.
Thats all I can say on the matter.
NY7Q
DENVER, COLORADO
LAND OF GODS
AND HOTSHOT CW OPS
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N7YA on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
You didnt rile Len up, he actually gave you a short reply, LOL. I stay out of Lens hair because he makes some valid points, he just makes a lot of them and i cant keep up with the thread as intensely. Ive seen all sorts of good points posted here, its just a very aggressive place for hobbyists to congregate.
I frequent numerous sites, and this one is the most hostile of them all...just think, if ham radio is THIS unnerving, what would this group of folks turn into if we had a REAL emergency or issue!!
On the bright side, i dont believe its personal since every single thread on eHam ends up the same, no matter how well intentioned the original poster was, it always ends up in a fight. I think eHam is a sub-hobby for a certain type of ham who likes their communications a little more edgy, the type of edgy that is ok online, but not on the air...thats why i dont have a problem with all this and have long since stopped posting "hey, come on guys, were all hams here, cant we stop this and get along??" replies...they always fall on deaf ears.
I realize now, THIS is who we are, right here.
73...Adam, N7YA
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by K9MHZ on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>>>>by N9DG on March 9, 2009
KL7AJ: “I would say that most of the perceived problems with newcomers is not the fault of the newcomers at all, but rather the way we've been recently RECRUITING them. Most of the methods I've seen seem so UNNATURAL for lack of a better word. This happens with any "product" you try to "sell." The organic magnetism that brought most of us into the hobby just isn't there for most new hams. Rather than "growing into" the hobby, they are "dropped" into it, without any context."
Very well put. I have noticed over the years that things that are heavily “sold” tend to attract only those who continuously need to be “sold” something. When the “selling” stops, they lose interest and move on......<<<<
I think you guys have both nailed it. It makes you think how it's a micro example of how we live today. OK, here comes the stretch (get ready to roll your eyes)....if the economies of the planet continue to tank, and personal wealth and consumption plummet, will we all be forced to stop the ADHD way of living that we've morphed into, and be forced to rediscover what's of real value? One can only hope.
Best,
Brad
K9MHZ
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KC2SDG on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry,
I am a newer ham and I have to say that I have not had any you-are-not-welcome-here experiences with ham radio.
Sicne becoming a ham, I have developed a keen interest in digital modes - psk31, RTTY, Olivia, ... A good number of the hams I make contact with are just like me - new to digital or a particular mode, learning, and having a great time - regardless of age. I have had many wonderful chats via digital modes with amateurs that have been haming since the 1930's. These conversations have all been very positive, interesting, encouraging, and inspiring.
If you are looking for a great bunch of hams both old and young, give the digital modes on any of the bands a try. I am confident you will find it an engaging experience.
73
KC2SDG
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W4HIJ on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Unfortunately there is always going to be a group of hams, old timers, old farts, whatever you want to call them who think that because you didn't pass the same exams they did that you don't deserve your ticket or that you are somehow lesser of an operator than they are. It's an old argument that has been around at least since the code requirement was lowered to 5 WPM for all classes. "They didn't pass the same test I did so I'm not going to talk to them, I'll just take my toys and go home!" Sounds kind of like a five year old brat doesn't it? Well it is a brat, it's just an older narrow minded brat is all. Ignore em and enjoy the hobby.
Last I knew, the ability to copy morse code didn't automatically make you a great operator or a great person for that matter. One listen to the bands and some of these so called "old timers" is proof of that.
Find yourself a copy of the amateur's code and conduct yourself according to that. You'll be fine and you'll be accepted and respected by most. As for the rest, let em wallow in that poisonous negativity and bitterness. I think they really enjoy it or they would have gotten on with the hobby and continued enjoying it rather than grousing about "how it used to be".
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KB5YLG on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
It's kind of fraternal. Get past the hazing and the grouchy old farts and all will be well.
Regards, and welcome to a terrific hobby.
We have to thin out the johnnie-come-lately types that tend to use us up (and all our generous, free help) and then vanish to pursue basket-weaving or whatever.
Commit to a lifelong friendship, folks will be able to tell, and you'll one day be helping new hams too, while trying to filter out the riff-raff goofballs.
Regards!
David
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AD7WN on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Welcome to ham radio, Terry.
If I'm reading your article correctly, it is a small fraction of the ham population that is shunning you. If that is true, I see no reason to stress out over it. I'm a little shy of a century in the hobby (54 years), but when I started out in 1955 I was also shunned by a small fraction of the OTs.
The reason for having been shunned at that time seems laughable today. I had a lowly three-letter call (W7BLH) while most of the OTs had more elegant two-letter calls. Other than the length of the callsign, there was no significant difference. I came into ham radio from a military background in CW. The OTs generally had good fists. I had a good fist. They worked CW traffic nets. I worked CW traffic nets. The only real difference was the length of the callsign.
I pretty much ignored those OTs who would have nothing to do with me. So, I enjoyed ragchews with those OTs (actually this included most of the OTs I encountered) who did not have this superiority complex. There was certainly no situation that would have prompted me to give up the hobby.
I expect there has always been this situation where a newbie is shunned by SOME of the OTs. On the phone bands, it was once a situation where the KW AM OTs were at war with the recently licensed ops using that new-fangled SSB emission. They would make it a practice for one of their own to park his carrier in the middle of the sidebander's passband and attempt to QRM him off the air. Intelligent use of the airwaves? Not really, but that was once the way it was done.
As you have pointed out, today it is a fraction of that bunch of OTs who went through the pain of learning the code who now shun the codeless new ops. Who knows what the reason will be twenty years from now? Maybe it'll be those who use old "thrashing machine" mechanical RTTY gear vs these newbies who use these new-fangled computers.
My advice is to not take it so seriously when an OF will have nothing to do with you. Keep your own operating practices clean and don't try to introduce CB procedures. Yelling "break-break" on a repeater frequency, when there is no emergency, would make my blood boil. And I like to think I'm more tolerant than most:-) Keep your own operating practices clean and you'll have lots of fine QSOs with other hams, young and old alike.
I hope you enjoy many decades of ham radio fun.
73 de John/AD7WN
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by NI0C on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W4HIJ wrote:
"Last I knew, the ability to copy morse code didn't automatically make you a great operator or a great person for that matter. "
This is true; however it does make one a CW operator.
The common knowledge of morse used to be a common thread that did indeed help ensure that we were "all in this together."
I'm not very sympathetic with the vague complaints described by the author.
Chuck NI0C
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KI4WFM on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Well. I have have been licensed for a little more than two years now. Tech for 3 months and then general. On SSB I found a few OTs that were a bit problematic but I just moved on. I listened a lot to get the hang of how things are done, especially on the local VHF repeaters.
The real key was I joined a good local club and became active. Don't be afraid to jump in. My first year I ran Field Day. I had no technical expertise but I am an operations manager by trade so organizing the effort was not a problem. I let the OTs handle the technical stuff (antenna's etc). Interestingly enough, when they saw my commitment, they seemed more willing to bring me into the fold. Now I have several teaching me more than I ever would have guessed I would learn and they are an incredible resource.
There will always be a few that you simply need to ignore but most, once they see the commitment, will jump right up and bring you along. Should it be that way, I don't know, but I have watched many new HAMs follow me into the local club and the ones willing to commit seem to hit it off OK with those OTs.
The hobby, like anything else, is what YOU make it. Enjoy.
73.
Allen. KI4WFM
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W4HIJ on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
NI0C wrote:
This is true; however it does make one a CW operator.
Yes it does, but the fact that you are a CW op doesn't make you any better or any smarter than anyone else. I think most folks object to the "superiority complex" that these guys in question have.
Luckily, I've found that these type of hams are definitely in the minority. Most CW ops I've ever run into are great people who are delighted to help new hams and encourage them to take up the code whether they are the so called no coders or not. This is the way it should be. CW will be a lost art otherwise.
My late father, who was the original W4HIJ, was the best CW op I ever saw but he never forced his love of the code on me. He allowed me to do what I wanted and when I chose not to focus on the code after learning it well enough to get my ticket and pretty much pursue SSB operation only, I had his blessing. He just wanted me to enjoy the hobby. That's all any of us should want for any new ham.
I am sympathetic to the original poster and his concerns because I've seen exactly what he's talking about. Of course I seen it in other hobbies I'm involved in too. A group of grizzled old timers who seem to enjoy nothing better than sitting around grousing about the way things used to be.
Funny how the one thing these hobbies have in common with amateur radio is a constant lament about the lack of new young blood coming in.
Coincidence? Doubt it....
73,
Michael
|
| |
|
RE: One big put on.
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
NI0C vents on 9 Mar 09:
"Go ahead, write your thousand word response."
Okay, send me a contract for a dime a word, 50% advance, the rest on publication. Must be a VALID check on a USA bank, not a phony Paypall thing.
36.5, Len AF6AY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
N7YA observed rightly on 9 Mar 09
"You didnt rile Len up, he actually gave you a short reply, LOL. I stay out of Lens hair because he makes some valid points, he just makes a lot of them and i cant keep up with the thread as intensely."
Thank you...maybe. :-)
One of my part-time jobs (actually made a few bucks in that) is professional writing. I can say that I've never met any editor purchasing my work having any face-to-face talk about it before purchase. The subject and the words sold it. I can write in lots of different styles and none of them really reflect what my deeper personal feelings are. :-)
When I get INTO a subject, I've always been intense about it. I doubt that is any personal detriment. That is one reason I've dropped ARRL membership, knowing their history and work from OTHER sources, not their own somewhat-biased (I'm being kind there) 'history.' :-)
I find it surprising that so few licensed readio amateurs have NOT gone into the history and background of 'radio' OTHER than amateur radio. That OTHER radio is rich and varied and did most of the intial pioneering of HF, the OTHER radio pretty well dominating advances after the 1920s. That offends the religiously-ardent amateurs who know very little else. Those acolytes (more like ick-olytes) get furious when their beloved icons are smutzed, their precious psalms stained. <shrug>
..................
N7YA: "Ive seen all sorts of good points posted here, its just a very aggressive place for hobbyists to congregate."
I find it refreshing that ANYONE dares to challenge the norm that olde-tyme radio fahrts insist be there. :-) One can't be a sissy-boy to push the performance envelope.
...................
N7YA: "I frequent numerous sites, and this one is the most hostile of them all...just think, if ham radio is THIS unnerving, what would this group of folks turn into if we had a REAL emergency or issue!!"
From what I've seen, the REAL Emergency workers will do their job, as they've trained for, practiced for, learned to handle. I've seen that in the immediate aftermath of the Northridge earthquake in northern Los Angeles in January 1994. Didn't see a single amateur radio setup serving the public until two days after...FEMA, for all their recent faults, had their video screen Health and Welfare message relays operating the day after. H&W messages are nice, but nothing beats the recognizeable handwriting of a relative or friend directly. Ham radio H&W message forwarding on 'official' League forms by a stranger may impress the traffic handlers but it doesn't have the same impact as a familiar known message.
I took my (only, ever) amateur radio test in what is called 'Old Firehouse 77' in the San Fernando Valley area of Los Angeles. There's been a new Firehouse less than a quarter mile away. The Old one could possibly still handle a 24/7 fire crew, all the comforts still there and operational. But, the Old firehouse has a one-door engine space, ain't big enough for the four-decade-long buildup around here. Since the Old firehouse was still quake-proof, the LAFD kept it and some others, making them stations in the LAFD Auxilliary Communications system to handle their own H&W messages and other things in case of a real emergency. It isn't some PR-structure for impressing the civilians, it is already equipped, trained, staffed, and ready to roll with an emergency comm vehicle (converted old school bus).
....................
N7YA: "...dont have a problem with all this and have long since stopped posting "hey, come on guys, were all hams here, cant we stop this and get along??" replies...they always fall on deaf ears."
"Why can't we all just get along?" is a direct quote of Rodney King, the spark of one of the Watts riots here in Los Angeles.
While that was popularized, most folks don't know that King was already an alky and juiced by something else when LAPD tried to subdue him after he got belligerant at a police stop. Granted the LAPD wasn't following proceedure and were in the wrong with the beating. That doesn't condone the riots or deaths that followed those riots. Nor did it 'honor' the phrase utterer who was twice arrested for domestic violence plus DUI (at least once) after those riots. NOT a good role-model for anything.
73, Len AF6AY
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KE4ZHN on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I talk with many new and old hams alike. It always seems to depend on the actions and operating practice of the newbie if they are accepted or not. Some get welcomed with open arms because they try to operate using the right procedures and customs of the hobby, while others get shunned because they act like their on channel 19. Having never worked Terry on the air I cannot say one way or the other.
The bottom line is, if you get on the air with a new call sign and start off by irritating the old timers with senseless radio checks, CB slang and generally poor operating practice you will never be accepted.
This goes for newbies and old timers alike. I dont know many hams who enjoy working a buffoon on the air. Ive worked literally thousands of contacts over the years and you will always have good and bad. Far and away my experiences on the air have been good but this is ham radio, not utopia. Terry, I suggest you grow a thicker hide and move on past the guys giving you grief. Its not worth dwelling on it or ruining your interest in the hobby over what a few disgruntled OF's said.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KC2OYZ on March 9, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Terry, how do know you are being snubbed - perhaps you're just reading into things too much.
If you're a new operator, it's no different than going to a new country for the first time - nobody's really paying that much attention to you, but you feel out of place - it takes a while to get used to the local customs and start to feel at home.
73
Mikey
K2BKT
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KB0NBE on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Ah ha... your not the only one receving the same wrath of the old timers.... Just lately, 2 years after I'm starting to re-build my shack after a devistating fire and lost EVERYTHING except the clothes on my back,and I decided to talk to a GENTLEMAN friend that was a ham
(I could tell by the feild day t-shirts he wore) we met at work and I told him my story, well he told me since code is NOT required anymore, and that I should up-grade (I originally got tired of local people litterly abusing me to up-grade to the point I regretted grabbing the mike to talk to friends on 2 meters) So, I started studying for general and in Feb. of this year took the general test and passed! HOO-RAY for me! When I started studying for the test I decided to start shoping for an entry level rig and located a older (but far from worn out!) Kenwood in fact complete station, tuner, power supply and desk mike for less than just rig only price on E-Bay... anyway,
Since now money is tight and I'm currently on lay off, I've got a rig that I'M DAMN PROUD OF!!! and been working stations in England, Ireland... And just this past weekend FRANCE & HAWAII not to shabby for a 25 year old rig...BUT wait thats not the end of it....
Now the O.M's are PISSY because I cant talk to the nearest town 12 miles away on TEN meters. SO FRIGGIN what,
I talked to Hawaii & France on an old beat up kenwood,
I think there jelous because I didnt pay $1,000.00 on my rig and am having just as much fun if not more fun than they are. I think I got a heck of a good deal, anyway thats why there all pissy at me. In conclusion YES WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER!!! Now heres maybe an observation by me "ya ever figgure out why they dropped the code - maybe Its cause of people treating others badly and running them off the air" - Just my observation. Here what I say if your having fun, operating within the rules THEN MORE POWER TO YOU! you have earned your license and deserve to operate too!
Keep your chin up and remember what on of my dearest freinds told me (an elmer) "I'de rather give ulcers than get them"
DONT GIVE UP!!!
Van J. Kaiser - KB0NBE
SPECIAL THANKS TO:
Steve - N0ORU
Gene - AA0YQ (SK)
Roger - KD0WY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by NI0C on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W4HIJ:
I agree with most of what you wrote in your response except the part about a "superiority complex."
Those of us who do "know code" are able to use our radios to communicate in arguably superior ways than those limited to voice and keyboard modes. That's not a "complex," that's a fact. That's why (as you point out) people are drawn to learning the code, even though they weren't required to as part of acquiring a license.
"I am sympathetic to the original poster and his concerns because I've seen exactly what he's talking about."
I am not, simply because the complaint was so vague: "I get no respect," and when pressed for an example, the author cited a rather irrelevant quote from somewhere else on eHam. The author may have a case, but he wasn't convincing.
That's not to say there are no examples of appalling ham behavior. I've probably heard them all in the course of listening hundreds of hours per year on the ham bands over the course of many years.
73,
Chuck NI0C
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by WA4SCA on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
There may be a bit of truth to this, when seen from a certain point of view. For instance, someone with a recent Amateur Extra who:
Can't solder a PL-259 without help.
Thinks their antenna is defective when in fact their power supply is not robust enough for their new rig.
Wastes significant amounts of their money and other people's time solving an audio feedback problem because they did not realize that the MON switch was on.
is likely to get the feeling that they may be regarded with less than the highest esteem. People being people, they will blame it on others.
In Ye Goode Oldde Days, whatever you may think of them, people more often than not gained practical experience in the time it took to master both the technical and CW requirements to upgrade. Now, when people can and do go from unlicensed to Amateur Extra in one VE session without ever having been on the air, not so much.
I am more than happy to Elmer people, from the very basics to satellite communications, and in retirement do. However, we are doing good people no favor by rushing them through upgrades. Let me repeat that: Good People. We either need to rethink things a bit, and/or keep in mind the full range of consequences of the changes which some worked so hard to achieve.
Alan
WA4SCA
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W4HIJ on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Chuck NI0C
I didn't mean to imply that everyone who knew code had a superiority complex. I was taking about the ones who are the subject of this whole discussion. The ones that have the attitude problem towards new hams in the first place because they didn't pass the code or pass as stringent a test on theory to get a license.
My dad lived to see the advent of the no code tech but not the total no code license structure we have now.
I know that as great a CW op as he was, he never would have held it against a new ham that he didn't have to pass the code to get a license. My late brother got a no code tech license and no one could have been any prouder of him than my father.
BTW, I still do know the code even after years of not using it, I'm just a little rusty is all and as soon as my hectic schedule eases up in the next couple of months, I am going to start brushing up and get back into it. Not because of any pressure from anyone or because I think I need to be good at it to be a "real ham". I just want to do it now.
I actually think the best thing in the world that could have happened to CW is the fact that it was removed as a requirement for getting a license.
People learn things a lot better when they want to do it rather than learning it because they have to. That's just human nature.
73,
Michael
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W0BKR on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Newbies?
How would I know that you are a Newbie? Think many are going to "look up" callsigns, etc?
If one acts with a chip on the shoulder or bad mouths pro-code ops, OF's as they like to call them, then yes, you may in fact get some dissing on the air.
If you act like a normal licensed op, I doubt anyone will care how you were licensed. Just act appropriate.
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KJ4DLG on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
I am also newly licensed as of April of last year and upgraded over a period of 6 weeks to Extra. I tell people that now I an Extra, I realize how much I don't know about radio. I agree with the majority opinion that if you listen a lot, talk less and observe the traditions of ham radio and don't act like a CB operator, you will be fine regardless of your license level. All of the older hams in my area have been completely helpful if I had a question or problem I couldn't resolve. Key here is to try to find the answer yourself in reference material, then ask for their expertise if necessary. License level not withstanding, if you ask stupid questions [and I am not saying you did] and act like you don't have sense enough to come in out of a rain storm [ditto] you won't find much of a friendly reception. The only problem I have had was on HF when I inadvertantly interupted a net [Couldn't tell by listening at that point it was a net, sounded like a regular rag chew]. Also in ham radio you will find three types of hams: Those that have much practical knowledge but little book knowledge, and those who have much book knowledge but little practial, and a third group that falls somewhere between the first two. All are needed in our hobby. Stay with it, and in a few years you can be elmering the newbies on the air. And by the way, I am attempting to learn Morse code, not to be accepted, but because I think it is part of the tradition, and because code WILL get through when nothing else can. 73
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KG4YMC on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
had to laugh, I think you met, old days, not old gays. does to much rf in the shack cause homosexuality .. no not an anti gay post, I am straight and married, but thought you would get a comet on that hi hi kg4ymc i'll stick to qrp to be safe..lol..
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KB0TXC on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
K9MHZ wrote:
<With the possible exception of a church, no place on the planet is going to unconditionally welcome you just because you decide to show up.>
KB0TXC (the amused) responds:
CHURCH???!!!
Hell (capital H), for the most part, 'church' is one of the most clique infested, unwelcoming places that humanity has ever invented! My dear holy Goddess Bastet, I have crossed the threshold of too many churches in my lifetime to be convinced otherwise. Sorta reminds me of amateur radio in a way...
You have your "washed in the blood/born in the spirit" OFs that preach sexual morality (or the use and worship of CW above all else). They preach sexual morality now because they are old and are addicted to Viagra, however Bastet only knows, when they were younger, they were doing anything with two legs!
Then you have the "heathen" (like me) that the 'born in the blood' sort of OFs look down their noses at because we do *not* believe the way that they do and do not go to listen to pastor loud mouth and grovel at his feet and give him our money, or God forbid, that we enjoy the company of another without being married (or that we do not use CW using the amateur radio metaphor).
In this nation of 'tolerance', unless you belong to the proper clique, religion, social group, or (in the case of amateur radio) CW usage, there will be those who will berate you until they run out of breath and their spirit goes to the great accountant in the sky.
I know...I belong to many such 'non-traditional' groups...both spiritually and in the amateur radio sense. My religious affiliation is very much in the minority in this nation, and the only places for me to practice my faith with like minded folk is in those larger cities with significant Asian populations. Otherwise I am on my own. Trust me I know. I grew up in a small town in the Midwest U.S... where if you did not belong to the church as a teen, and hang on every word that some hypocrite blathered on Sunday morning after doing someone elses' wife on Saturday night, your life was made hell by those that did. Same with amateur radio...I am a no-coder, and thus, I am a "heathen" in the eyes of many, particularly at the ladies aid society in Newington.
Am I bitter? Not really, that leads to bad Karma. I do truly resent the Newington ladies aid society for bitterly opposing for years the FCC removing the code rite of passage requirement to obtain an amateur radio license. Do I have respect for those who mastered CW? Of course I do, just as I have respect for the true wisdom of Jesus ben Joseph that is rarely if ever preached in 'churches' (basically the churches preach Constantine-anity and Paul-anity). Do I have time or respect for those amateur radio operators that demand my respect because they can copy 40 WPM CW and I am a lowly no-coder? Not no, but HELL no. As far as I am concerned, they can go dry up. Let them give their time and worship to the altar of CW at the Newington ladies aid society. Let them give their unadulterated devotion to the church of CW. I, on the other hand, shall not.
All that said, believe it or not, I have a blast working many many amateur ops that do not act this way. Indeed, I have run into maybe ten or so real nasties in the past fifteen years, where as I have spoken with thousands and thousands both on the air and in person that were truly nice and wonderful people with a spirit that was very inviting and positive.
My philosophy is let the OFs to themselves, feel sorry for them and ignore them...they cannot get with the times because they are so set in their ways and fossilized. Enjoy the fact that you can on the other hand change and go with the flow of progress.
And most importantly, AGE has nothing to do with OF status or being nasty... There are those on the air that are fifteen years younger than I that are real jerks because I refuse to worship their CW proficiency. Then there are those that are twenty years older than I that are well springs of wisdom and are very welcoming to the new or no-code amateur radio operator.
Peace and 73
Joe KB0TXC
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KG4YMC on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Terry, Hi, from another terry, . I am kinna new to hf also . I have to say most people on 40 have been friendly and knowable. I started out on 6, when had tec liscense. My radio is old ncg tribander that has six, 40 and l5 meters onely. I remember wanting to use the other two bands also , tried to learn code, know characters some , but cannot copy to well. My elmer, was old old operator w4gjm gregg moor, he could never get the code, but electronic wise, frineship and helpful wise , he was a master and good friend. He helped me get set up on six, got an antenna tuner from him . Take the time to listen to older people, they are a weath of information and stories. I prefer rag chewing , but listen, coustesey, admit when make a mistake, most hams I have heard have been really nice and patient . Also, if you hear someone calling cq , try and answer them, it may be there first contact. I still have pete petras card from six meters, my first card was from kd2nl. old operator that gave me the test for tec. on subject of knowage.... I grew up in at photography 76 to 78 dbcc. collage daytona beach, during golden era of slrs... the digital newbys? mabey, but dept of field, can use view camera, also know how to stick shieft.. does that make me better. get on over it , just enjoy , its a hobby 73 kg4ymc have to laught wen an old fart car dealer asked my wife if she could drive a stick , honey what color do you want . she said yes, not onley can I drive a stick , I can write monitoring reports, computer programing ect, needly to say we din't buy a car from that jerk , and he din't last at the dealership either I think .
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KG4YMC on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
sorry to hear about the harrasment, if that happen in north fla in will kill you county, wakulla co. we would not be fireing " dummy loads " can you say ' read the liscense " gees . it takes all kinds , but enjoy the hobby, with obama, mabey I should rejoin nra and keep our "personal protection devices, anyway , well handled, don't know if I would have the patience, mormons and jw. are just as bad hi hi .. kg4ymc
|
| |
|
RE: We Aren't All In This Together!
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
NY7Q tried spin doctoring on March 9, 2009:
"It's a game with me."
Game? OK...
You raised,
I called,
You lost.
End game.
AF6AY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by VE3FMC on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
by QRZDXR2 on March 8, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
And your point being...
What the old hams are really saying about you is true.. you got your license from the toy box. You really didn't have to go through the "work for it" like they did yet you got the rewards given to you.
But, if your going to whine about it, you might want some cheese to go with it.
OMG, I never had to CRANK START my car either! Does that make me any less of a car driver than the old guys who had to crank a Model T?
Just because I can remote start my car doesn't mean I can't drive as well as the old guy who had to hand crank his.
Of course he did not have to "EARN HIS TICKET THE OLD FASHIONED WAY" because that way is long gone. It will not come back because guys like you, (who will not list their call signs) whine about the fact the code testing has been eliminated.
Get over it, move on.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W4HIJ writes: "Unfortunately there is always going to be a group of hams, old timers, old farts, whatever you want to call them who think that because you didn't pass the same exams they did that you don't deserve your ticket or that you are somehow lesser of an operator than they are."
Yup. And there's a group of newcomers who think that because you've been a ham a long time you don't know anything about modern stuff.
W4HIJ: "It's an old argument that has been around at least since the code requirement was lowered to 5 WPM for all classes."
Both attitudes are much, much older than that. There are folks still griping about the "incentive licensing" changes of 40+ years ago. Some of them weren't even hams until decades after those changes took place, yet they gripe about them.
W4HIJ: "Ignore em and enjoy"
AGREED!
W4HIJ: "Last I knew, the ability to copy morse code didn't automatically make you a great operator or a great person for that matter."
Not automatically, but it helps. And there's a lot more to being a CW operator than being able to copy code. Learning Morse Code made me a better operator and a better person.
IMHO, having good CW operating skills helps make someone a great operator and a great person in many ways. But that doesn't mean it's the only way, or that all hams must do it.
Having Morse Code skills can make amateur radio a lot more fun, and greatly expands what you can do in amateur radio.
W4HIJ: "One listen to the bands and some of these so called "old timers" is proof of that."
One listen to the PHONE bands, that is. Look through the FCC enforcement letters, and you'll see very very few involving amateurs using CW for communication, even though the mode is very popular on the HF amateur bands. Most of the enforcement actions for bad operating behavior are for things done with VOICE modes. The difference is much greater than the relative popularity of the modes.
And the violations aren't all from old-timers, either.
No test, particularly a one-time test, is a perfect filter-outer of 'bad apples'. Heck, every violator also passed at least one, and probably several, written exams that contained all sorts of stuff about the rules and regs. Yet some folks intentionally behave badly on the air.
Heck, look at how some folks behave here on eham.
W4HIJ: "Find yourself a copy of the amateur's code and conduct yourself according to that. You'll be fine and you'll be accepted and respected by most."
Excellent advice!
W4HIJ: "As for the rest, let em wallow in that poisonous negativity and bitterness."
Yup.
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W4HIJ on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
QRZDXR2 wrote:
And your point being...
What the old hams are really saying about you is true.. you got your license from the toy box. You really didn't have to go through the "work for it" like they did yet you got the rewards given to you.
But, if your going to whine about it, you might want some cheese to go with it.
What did you expect... you go take a test that most 3-5 year old can memorize now.. and you come into the hobby whining that your not appreciated or respected. Well neither are the old guys who are leaving the hobby to take up something else that is not so cluttered with Commucation Banders and week mindes polluters.
This all being said.. which I am sure you have heard it already, what do you expect ham radio to be? What are you going to make it. What are you going to do for the guy who wants you to help him in toyland?
You write like you want others to rally around your whining and finger pointing to the old ham radio guys.. when in fact it is you that is not up to par nor are contrubuting to the whole.
If you wanted glory, reconigition and phrase for passing a memory test.. go figure... harry did you find that lose nut? You came to the wrong hobby. You will find that to gain respect in any hobby you first have to earn it. Ya the old fashion way works but, if your a whining glory seeker that wants to wear the Orange or yellow .. I'm here to save the world shirt..ahttt wrong. I suggest that if this is what your looking for you need to take up a different hobby because your going to be very disapointed and let down when you relize... that it ain't so....
This the new Commucations Band hobby. Say hello, do a contest, and check into a net is about all your going to get from this hobby. (oh ya some groups run around with orange shirt on getting their egos boosted thinking that they are supermen. But the odds are 1 out of 1000 that you would even last a week in disaster condtions and want to go back home to mom.
You want to learn electronics and commucations.. go to school because your waisting your time here. No one is going to take you by the hand and put you on a throne and potty train you..
Whine away with your .. say it ain't so... but in the end we have seen your kind come and go.
So grow up and get over it.
You make ham radio what you want it to be...
if its not... what you thought it should be .. you know the drill.
Welcome to ham radio...quit whining
And here we have the perfect example of a bitter old diseased narrow minded fool!
Actually I don't know how old this gent( and I use the term loosely) is but he's exactly the type we are talking about here. How nice of him to come here so we would have an example of just the attitude the original poster was talking about.
Don't ya'll get it? Everything that he says is designed to try and incite and provoke and get under your skin. He enjoys it when you pay attention to him and you let him know something he said bothers you.
I'm sure he's enjoying being singled out right now even though it's for ridicule.
The best thing we can do is IGNORE these idiots.
Their bitterness and negativity will eventually be the death of them.
73,
Michael
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KG6WLV on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Someone up above made the intelligent comment, "listen, listen, listen!" I agree. Learn the on-air practices of the mode you want to use. It's easy to key-down and create chaos, but when you hear a good op who knows what they are doing, you are learning.
Here's another key to being a better operator, READ, READ, READ!
I find I learn more about my rig -- new ones are very complicated, and it important to know what you're doing with them, before you get on the air -- the more I read about it. I also read about new techiques, new rigs, and anything else I don't know about that I need to know. Ham radio is such a complex field, there's always something new to learn. That's what makes it so interesting. That has nothing to do with how long I've had my ticket; it's just part of what I'm supposed to do to be a good ham, and it's fun to satisfy my own curiosity. That's why I got into this in the first place.
Here's another piece of advice: Stand up and do your part. I help to keep 2-meter sideband activity going here in Northern California. I had been logging in to the nets for months, but one of our local ops had conflicts with his job obligations and I took over his weekly net. I was nervous about it at first, but I take pride in my work with the net. It gave me the incentive to upgrade my station, and I've met GREAT folks who share my interest.
Ham radio is everything I hoped it would be. But I think everyone, no matter what their license class or experience, needs to give back to all the ops who've come before and made it great. I've made friends, learned things and I also have the potential to do public service. For me, that's unbeatable.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N5ACK on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I upgraded to General back in August 2007 after being a Tech for 9 years. I have never heard a single negative comment on the air, I have only seen negative posts about "no-coders" here and other forums. I know there will always be OF's that don't like the "no-coders", but I just ignore the posts. Coders can communicate via morse code, that's a great talent, congrats, however is that such an important talent that if someone does not have it, you put them down?
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W4MLO on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hi all,
I was licensed in 1991(I think)as a no-code tech(I also passed the General theory test that same day. I was welcomed and mentored by some of the greatest people I have ever known. At that time a lot of hams were scared to death that Amateur Radio was dying and were willing to to do whatever it took to get more people into the hobby to protect the bands. Any how, for whatever reason I did not follow through with learning "THE CODE". I became bored with my megar privileges and became inactive. The day after the code requirement was dropped I passed my General and was welcomed back by the same great bunch of people. My point is, it is not what some (a very few)of the jackarses say or how they act on the air that matters...don't worry about them, worry about becoming a good operator and more importantly...ENJOY THE HOBBY!!! Get involved in a local club and make REAL FRIENDS!!! Ignore the few that are living in the past and join those who are flexible and look forward to the future and become part of it.
By the way, for what it is worth, most of the rest of the world (including the US government) did away with "THE CODE" years ago)
Just my 1/2 cent,
73 Milo W4MLO
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N7YA on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Code requirement is gone...bands still have tons of CW ops on them. SSB didnt kill AM, lots of hams still use that mode.
There are more hams licensed now than ever before...ham radio isnt dead, and hams have never stopped acting like it is. I think this dead horse is a pile of pulp by now.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N7YA on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
My advice for the folks who come online and scream in all caps about how we should all get along, how we should all be friends and this hobby should be enjoyed...i agree, and you should continue to do these things, ham radio is fine and so is the world of the internet forum ham...its all just fine. This forum business is exactly how the internet ham wants it to be, strong opinions posted here will have absolutely NO affect on the real world of ham radio....this is just where old hams go to graze on mud and step in eachothers waste.
Some egos get bruised, and it appears too rough for some peoples tender bottoms...but in the big picture, everything is ok.
|
| |
|
We Aren't All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 10, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
N7YA tried some boosting on 10 Mar 09:
"There are more hams licensed now than ever before..."
Well, not quite. From www.hamdata.com the peak of all issued USA amateur licenses was set on 2 July 2003 with 737,938 total. That same www.hamdata.com shows all issued USA amateur radio license for the end of 9 March 2009 as 723,236. That's a difference of 14,702 and very close to ALL active licensees (within their 10-year term) of Indiana (14,660) or Oregon (14,555).
What may be more telling is the www.hamdata.com figures for the last 12 months. There were 28,013 NEW licensees but 27,931 EXPIRED licenses. That's a difference of only 82 in favor of NEW licensees! The delta is so small that it could very well be just random statistical noise. There doesn't appear to be much growth but neither is there much decline. It is static.
For what it is worth, here is the percentage of the three new license classes compared to ALL class license totals, plus the other three still on the books but no longer issued:
Technician------333.227---------46.8 %
General---------145,608---------21.9 %
Extra-----------116,174---------9.56 %
Others----------103,544---------14.5 %
Note: By subtracting the so-called 'active' licensees per class as given by the ARRL from ALL per class as given by Hamdata, there is a reasonably good assumption that the delta represents those IN their grace period or 2-year extension beyond the normal 10-year term. In that case, the in-grace percentages (relative to ALL per class) are:
Technician------12,467----------3.74%
General---------10,600----------6.79%
Extra------------3,193----------2.67%
A conclusion, which comes up regularly, is that Technician class is overwhelmingly the largest class in USA amateur radio and shows NO sign of soon petering-out as many warned a few years ago. As the first new-issue license class that had NO code test associated with it, it has continued to grow and grow and grow since 1991 until Technician is over twice as large as General...and General is over twice as large as Extra. But, since Extra class is the most active poster on this forum and most of them try to downplay (if not denigrate) the lesser classes, there is also the conclusion that a distinct minority of the USA 'amateur community' is Trying to Rule. Most of those "ten percenters" (the Extra) express ideas that They should run things based on their (10 percent) ideas and status. Their dead-horse carcass just hasn't been moved out yet. It is beginning to smell like a health hazard to the 'amateur community' in my opinion.
73, Len AF6AY
|
| |
|
RE: We Aren't All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
AF6AY writes: "Technician class is overwhelmingly the largest class in USA amateur radio and shows NO sign of soon petering-out as many warned a few years ago."
The number of Technicians is growing in part because, since April 15, 2000, FCC has renewed all Technician Pluses as Technicians. There were over 128,000 Tech Pluses in April 2000, now there are less than 4000, and in about 13 months there will be no more Tech Pluses at all. In addition, any Novice who upgrades by passing the Tech written gets a Technician.
If you add up the number of Technicians and Technician Pluses back in April 2000 and compare it with the same sum today, the result is a *decline* in both the total and the percentage.
AF6AY: "As the first new-issue license class that had NO code test associated with it, it has continued to grow and grow and grow since 1991 until Technician is over twice as large as General...and General is over twice as large as Extra."
However, some Technicians are code-tested and some aren't, same as General and Extra. Which doesn't matter any more because each class conveys the stated privileges regardless of what tests were passed to earn it.
General and Extra have continued to grow and grow as well.
AF6AY: "But, since Extra class is the most active poster on this forum and most of them try to downplay (if not denigrate) the lesser classes, there is also the conclusion that a distinct minority of the USA 'amateur community' is Trying to Rule. Most of those "ten percenters" (the Extra) express ideas that They should run things based on their (10 percent) ideas and status."
Well, Len, you're an Extra, and what you describe is pretty much the way you've behaved since long before you got your amateur radio license 2 years ago.
btw, Extras comprise over 17% of the total number of US hams, not 10%.
---
Since the last remnant of code testing was removed from Part 97 about 2 years ago, we've seen a small amount of growth in the total number of US amateurs (as measured by unexpired licenses held by individuals). Which proves that code testing wasn't really a "barrier limiting growth" at all.
Now we can get to work on the real problems.
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
RE: One big put on.
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
AF6AY wrote:
NI0C vents on 9 Mar 09:
"Go ahead, write your thousand word response."
Okay, send me a contract for a dime a word, 50% advance, the rest on publication. Must be a VALID check on a USA bank, not a phony Paypall thing.
36.5, Len AF6AY
----
Len, you responded in the wrong thread.
NI0C is over in "Let's Take Ownership Of The Bands"
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W8QF on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I have been a ham for nearly 42 years and I can tell you right now, those guys have been around at least that long. I earned my general at 11 so imagine the whooping I received on a regular basis. I mostly stuck to CW until collage. Hang in there, one day it will improve.
Dave, W8QF
|
| |
|
RE: One big put on.
|
|
|
by W5ESE on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
N2EY said:
> Since the last remnant of code testing was removed
> from Part 97 about 2 years ago, we've seen a small
> amount of growth in the total number of US amateurs
> (as measured by unexpired licenses held by
> individuals). Which proves that code testing wasn't
> really a "barrier limiting growth" at all.
> Now we can get to work on the real problems.
Exactly. Well stated.
The principal issues are visibility and the erosion
of interest into the avocations that in earlier
times led people into the hobby, such as Shortwave
Listening and CB radio.
I was both an SWL and had a CB.
73
Scott
W5ESE
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by NV2A on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Looks like this has been talked out but let me add this so that the OP might find some relief.
Number one, don't volunteer that you just joined the hobby last week, are "only" a General Class or only on 2 meters. There are a lot of folks who feel like their talking to children. Look at it this way, you got 20 battle hardened grunts in an outfit and a new recruit shows up with spiffy uniform and shoes that ain't broken in yet. Are you going to feel you have "as much in common" with him then you do your fellow warriors? It's not much different.
I'm not good at talking with children, I wish I was but fact is I am not. So if a kid comes back to my CQ it will likely be very short QSO as I know nothing about P Diddy except that he exist, I'm not on "MyFace.com". It's just human nature.
When you get into a QSO talk about what you do for a living, the economy, your recent projects or activity on the bands. Leave out the neophyte stuff and chances are you'll do better. Here's another way to put it.
Lets say there is a round table going with a bunch of kids on 40 meters and I jump into the crowd and announce I'm 62 yrs old, how comfortable do you think they would make me feel?
Now I know there is some clown out there who is going to try to take my feelings to mean something else. He'll will read everything I've written to imply that I said rudeness is okay. I never said that, only that "birds of a feather stick together" in very general terms. I have not heard much rudness on the bands where joining in on a QSO is concened except on 80 meters when half the "Amateurs" are liquored up. Being a new or old ham won't matter much there.
It's gets better as you gain more experience. Good luck
|
| |
|
How Many Hams?
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
These are the number of current, unexpired FCC-issued amateur radio licenses held by individuals on the stated dates, and the percentage of the total number that class contains. Percentages may not add up to exactly 100.0% due to rounding.
These totals do not include licenses that have expired but are in the grace period, nor do they include club, military and other station-only licenses.
Effective April 15, 2000, FCC no longer issued new Novice, Technician Plus and Advanced class licenses, so the numbers of those license classes have declined steadily since then.
Also since April 15, 2000, FCC has renewed all existing Technician Plus licenses as Technician. So it is informative to consider the totals of the two classes, since the Technician class includes a significant number of Technician Plus licenses renewed as Technician.
On February 23, 2007, the last Morse Code test element, the 5 wpm receiving test, was eliminated as a requirement.
License numbers as of:
May 14, 2000 February 22, 2007 March 09, 2009:
Novice: 49,329(7.3%) 22,896(3.5%) 17,951(2.7%)
Tech: 205,394(30.4%) 293,508(44.8%) 320,716(48.9%)
TechPlus:128,860(19.1%) 30,818(4.7%) 3,514(0.5%)
General: 112,677(16.7%) 130,138(19.9%) 145,582(22.2%)
Advanced: 99,782(14.8%) 69,050(10.5%) 61,663(9.4%)
Extra: 78,750(11.7%) 108,270(16.5%) 116,159(17.7%)
Total Tech/TechPlus:
334,254(49.5%) 324,326(49.5%) 324,230(49.4%)
Total all classes:
674,792 654,680 655,585
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
Yes, we are.
|
|
|
by NO6L on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
This is going to be short and to the point. I don't want you to worry about these people that have nothing better to do than to cut others down so they feel more significant. All it is, is a misdirected expression of "power", kind of like rape, but on a much, much less violent level. That's right, they practice "mind rape". They're the same type that gave grief to those who dared to go beyond spark transmitters, beyond CW and use AM, then, beyond AM to SSB. Now, there's a new generation of these people that are obsessed with the fact that CW was removed from the amateur exams. I call them the "Militant CW Crowd".
I am now going to formally invite you to a place on the HF bands where you will not get treated like this and be properly welcomed to HF. You may hear an occasional mention of the "good old days", but intolerance of peoples exam dates is not tolerated. Not there, and not in QSOs I'm involved it.
3908, Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sunday nights at 2000 PT/PDT. This is the place and time the WARFA Net meets. You can also find out more at www.warfa.org
de NO6L
WARFA Southern Relay, Tuesdays.
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W9DNJ on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Very good point! But you are right, it is a small crowd of the "old schoolers" some which are guilty of hurting this hobby as well. I like the old timers, they are the ones who originally got me interested in the hobby. Times have changed, it is simple had all of us been required to do 20 words a minute cw, I'm sure most of us would have, but, we didn't have to and please don't slight us for it, it was not our idea.
We love this hobby and most of us hold professionalism very high on the air! I for one am an EMA member and support ham radio very strongly as an emergency communication media. My original call is KC9DKK which I changed for my vanity call W9DNJ. It is my way of tipping my hat to the hey day of amateur radio and the letters are for my wife and I "Diane N John"
Don't get to frustrated, I think you have already figured that out. For some of the pioneers it is hard to watch standards just cast aside by an FCC that every year does less of it's job and refugee cb'ers coming over with bad habits. We must continue the tradition and educate our fellow new hams and the old timers need to support us!
and make no mistake! Some of those cb'ers have turned into great operators and dx'ers!!
73! and here's to a bright future for ham radio.
John L. W9DNJ Old timer in disguise : )
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by NO6L on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Ok, I pretty much read through the replies. Some implied Terry was whining, trolling or trying to start a flame fest. Nope, I don't think so. He has simply made observations as to his experience thus far, so lay off.
As for this tragedy:
>KB9YKP on March 8, 2009
>I passed the Tech exam in 2000 at the age of 48.
>Bought a used 2-meter rig...
>...built and installed a simple ground plane antenna...
Which is probably more actual station building than the goons who show up later in the story...
>I monitored the local repeaters and noted the
>operating habits and practices of the operators...
>I had a nice QSO with a gentleman and when we
>concluded, I noticed 2 cars in my driveway.
>Apparently my “friends” from the other repeater had
>“found” me as they had promised...
I bet they didn't have to look far, our addresses are on line with our call signs, what morons. Here's the bad part...
>My 2-meter rig sits up on a shelf a few feet from
>where I’m writing this. Neither it, nor I, have ever
>been on the air since...
You know, this is an example of what sets my teeth on edge. Do you now know what I mean when I say, "These people are so obsessed with keeping the status quo they'll sacrifice the very bands they talk on for lack of activity on them, to keep it? Where was the friggen' apology!? They should have been on their knees begging him to stay in Amateur Radio, but no, they had to skulk off like the little cowards they are. A simple FCC lookup would have kept this from ever happening.
Where's the outrage here? Why aren't you people begging KB9YKP to return to the air? If you won't I will; Doug, KB9YKP, please reconsider. Go get upgraded and I want you to make the first stop on HF to be 3908 on Tues, Thurs, and Sun nights at 2000 CT/CDT and forget 2M, for now. You will hear our sister net, the High Fivers, which is the same thing as the Western Amateur Radio Friendship Association on the same day and same frequency at 2000 PT/PDT. You WILL be warmly welcomed back to Amateur Radio, especially after you tell them how you were treated the first time. You tell them NO6L, the WARFA Net Tuesday Southern relay sent you.
Hope to see you on the air some day.
Chuck
NO6L
|
| |
|
RE: How Many Hams? (more readable)
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
License numbers as of:
May 14, 2000
February 22, 2007
March 09, 2009:
Novice:
05/14/2000: 49,329(7.3%)
02/22/2007: 22,896(3.5%)
03/09/2009: 17,951(2.7%)
Tech:
05/14/2000: 205,394(30.4%)
02/22/2007: 293,508(44.8%)
03/09/2009: 320,716(48.9%)
TechPlus:
05/14/2000: 128,860(19.1%)
02/22/2007: 30,818(4.7%)
03/09/2009: 3,514(0.5%)
General:
05/14/2000: 112,677(16.7%)
02/22/2007: 130,138(19.9%)
03/09/2009: 145,582(22.2%)
Advanced:
05/14/2000: 99,782(14.8%)
02/22/2007: 69,050(10.5%)
03/09/2009: 61,663(9.4%)
Extra:
05/14/2000: 78,750(11.7%)
02/22/2007: 108,270(16.5%)
03/09/2009: 116,159(17.7%)
Total Tech/TechPlus:
05/14/2000: 334,254(49.5%)
02/22/2007: 324,326(49.5%)
03/09/2009: 324,230(49.4%)
Total all classes:
05/14/2000: 674,792
02/22/2007: 654,680
03/09/2009: 655,585
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
RE: How Many Hams? (more readable)
|
|
|
by N7YA on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
So i stand corrected on the total numbers...we have a "whole lot" of hams, is probably how i should have put it.
One thing is for sure, the amount of licensees in the discontinued classes has dropped, but the remaining classes has risen, so im not all that far off.
The point i was trying to make remains...ham radio is fine, weve been through all this before.
|
| |
|
RE: How Many Hams? (more readable)
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
N7YA writes: "So i stand corrected on the total numbers...we have a "whole lot" of hams, is probably how i should have put it."
The main point is that our numbers are not shrinking, they're growing. Not by much, but they *are* growing. And while they're not at the 2003 peak, the difference is not great.
N7YA: "One thing is for sure, the amount of licensees in the discontinued classes has dropped, but the remaining classes has risen, so im not all that far off."
The closed-off classes had to drop, of course.
What's interesting is how differently the different closed-off classes' numbers have declined. Tech Plus is almost gone but Advanced is still at 2/3 of its numbers almost a decade ago. Novice is in between.
Meanwhile the active classes - all of them - just keep growing. It will be interesting to see what happens to Technician when there are no more Tech Pluses to be renewed as Tech.
N7YA: "The point i was trying to make remains...ham radio is fine, weve been through all this before."
Yes, we have.
Way back in the late 1960s, when I was a brand-new ham, there were those who moaned and groaned that amateur radio was dying.
They said the new incentive licensing rules would make it so only EEs who were also professional telegraphers could be hams.
They said new technology like SSB transceivers, RTTY and SSTV would keep all but the rich out of ham radio.
They said that other electronic activities such as cb, hi-fi/stereo, electronic music and the space age were siphoning off the supply of new hams.
They said that young people were interested in new and different things, and that amateur radio was far too 'square' and 'establishment' to interest them anymore.
That was back when there were about 250,000 US hams, the country was bogged down in an unpopular foreign war, and the economy was starting to stagnate after years of growth.
And yet here we are, 40+ years later, with more hams, more bands, more modes, more equipment, and more fun things to do in amateur radio than ever before.
Yes, we've been through all this before.
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by WR9H on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hello Terry and very welcome to amateur radio. You may wel be correct in how other amateurs have treated you but they are certainly in the minority! I would recommend that you spend some time monitoring the bands and look for those QSOs that are open and non-judgemental. A group you might try is the 7272 Ragchewers on 7.272MHz. This is an open ragchewing group that welcomes ALL amateurs.
Remember Terry, no one can make you fell inadequate unless you let them!!
Vy 73 and if you hear me on the air give me a call.
Yours in radio,
Herb
WR9H
|
| |
|
RE: We Aren't All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
N2EY flaps his featherless albatross wings and squawks on 11 Mar 09:
"The number of Technicians is growing in part because, since April 15, 2000, FCC has renewed all Technician Pluses as Technicians. There were over 128,000 Tech Pluses in April 2000, now there are less than 4000, and in about 13 months there will be no more Tech Pluses at all. In addition, any Novice who upgrades by passing the Tech written gets a Technician."
Poor Jimmy, tries once again to denigrate (his idea of) lower classes as he has done for years on forums. Does he come to conclusions as a result of concussions?
Gollee, Gomer, what was that about R&O 99-612 said about ADVANCED or NOVICE classes? Will they still be around after May 2012? Give us your old-timer secret info right out of the FCC interior at Washington Street in DC and reveal your Oracle-acious "insider" information.
Now I didn't know this thread would be hijacked into Jimmy's Own Ideas. All I can see are facts of numbers and conclude from those. I know no one at the FCC, not even slightly. Yes, I MUST respond, if only to get rid of this putrid dead bird trying to hang around my amateur radio opinion neck.
............
N2EY: "If you add up the number of Technicians and Technician Pluses back in April 2000 and compare it with the same sum today, the result is a *decline* in both the total and the percentage."
Not having such explicit information, all I can point to is a FEW statitstics pages before April 2007. In that April I started collecting ARRL and Hamdata DAILY postings of stats with an automatic save of their on-line page displays into PDF. Acrobat 8 (the full version, not just the reader) did that. Anyone who was looking at those stats pages on their own computer on the Internet would see the same as I saw and saved. Anyone is welcome to a copy of any date stats I have by e-mail attachment to an e-mail reply to any e-mail request...with the exception of a few certain Extra troublemakers. :-)
The only complete listing for earlier statistics is the December 1990 posting (on Compuserve?) from Richard Hoffbeck, N0LOX, to Fritz Anderson, WT9T [no relation to me] which was taken from the FCC database file for November 1988. Whether or not the FCC had that database file available over the Internet is doubtful (the Internet did not go public until 1991) but it was available in ASCII format (simple text fields) on a monthly interval for full details via surface mail. That 1988 breakdown is:
Novice --------- 95,750 (19.94%)
Technician ----- 109,192 (22.74%) *
General -------- 122,959 (25.61%)
Advanced ------- 104,253 (21.71%)
Extra ---------- 47,997 (9.98%) **
* There was no 'Technician Plus' class and the no-code-test Technician class would not exist until after R&O 90-53 of December 1990. The number of issued classes were only 5 in 1988, and would be only 5 in 1990, the year of that posting.
** Note that percentage which would lead to an inadvertent error I made in my posting.
AF6AY: "As the first new-issue license class that had NO code test associated with it, it has continued to grow and grow and grow since 1991 until Technician is over twice as large as General...and General is over twice as large as Extra."
That was an error on my part. The number of Advanced class license holders on 10 Mar 09 was 68,079 total, 61,675 'active,' and thus were 9.56% of the total individual license classes of 712,346 total. Using the blank back of some old printout as a scratch sheet, I mixed the Advanced class percentage for the 10 Mar 09 Extra percentage of 16.8%. On 10 Mar 09 the total Extra licensees numbered 119,236 with 116,175 still in their 10-year license term.
Note also that the percentage of Extras in the 1988 tabulation by Hoffbeck had 9.98% (which I had recently seen and mind-logged under the mental filing of "ten percenters"...something that another had said to me in private conversation prior to 1990).
N2EY: "General and Extra have continued to grow and grow as well."
Based on PDFs of Hamdata pages of 9 May 04 (my earliest) and 11 Mar 09 (my latest) the class breakdown is as follows:
Technician ----- 284,105 (04) --- 333,321 (09)
Technician Plus - 66,299 (04) ---- 12,679 (09)
Novice ---------- 38,313 (04) ---- 22,681 (09)
General -------- 146,233 (04) --- 156,237 (09)
Advanced -------- 84,318 (04) ---- 68,068 (09)
Extra ---------- 107,595 (04) --- 119,381 (09)
NEW Licensees in Last 12 months --- 19,022 (04) --- 28,031 (09)
Expirations in Last 12 months ----- 19,015 (04) --- 28,039 (09)
An explanation on the two "Last 12 months" columns: Hamdata uses its previous stored FCC database information to present totals of the 12 months PRIOR to the date of their statistics pages. The ARRL does not do that. Hamdata also shows three other past-period activity, primarily administrtive, that does not affect license CLASS numbers. Note also there is a difference between what I posted for 10 Mar 09 previously and the 11 Mar 09 figures on 'Last 12 Months' above. New licensees change was +82 in 12 months before and a day later it was -8 relative to EXPIRATIONS. This would be attributed to "statistical noise" due to its variability and that the delta is a tiny percentage change day-to-day.
Any ACTUAL 'Growth' in all USA amateur radio license numbers, either total or 'active'-only, is miniscule. That is the realistic portrayal. The peak of all USA amateur radio licenses happened on 2 July 03, roughly 4 1/2 years ago, and has since been LESS than the peak. All the rationalization in the world (or number juggling) will not change that inescapable fact.
In these numbers presented on e-ham, I have not tried to 'highlight' any particular class, just show the raw data from referenced sources...at least two of them if possible. My choice of Hamdata and ARRL is that Hamdata has the more complete data and ARRL statistics has only individual licensees within their 10-year license term. From that can be drawn a rather factual inference of those licensees who are IN their 2-year grace period. The ARRL stats are no more 'correct' than Hamdata's since BOTH get their license information from the SAME and ONLY source, the FCC. That FCC database contains each licensee's effective license date and any adminstrative change that might affect the license term; the FCC ULS data contains more data but a complete dataset of each licensee is not present in their huge public access license database. If I draw conclusions based on data and their trends, those are mine alone and do not represent any self-defined Holy Judge of All such as ARRL or N2EY.
..............
N2EY: "Since the last remnant of code testing was removed from Part 97 about 2 years ago, we've seen a small amount of growth in the total number of US amateurs (as measured by unexpired licenses held by individuals). Which proves that code testing wasn't really a "barrier limiting growth" at all."
Error, it "PROVES NOTHING" except that N2EY is such a rabid 'CW' afficionado that he will take the least possible item of (his) useable information and present that as some glowing beacon of "truth" to show He is 'right.' Further, it shows that N2EY will bring in relatively obsolete items of information wherein this 'factoid' of his (whatever it is) is repeated AS IF he could 'win' old forum arguments that he had not 'won' previously.
For example, in the language of the FCC Regulations prior to 'restructuring' of mid-2000, the 'medical waivers' existed only for 9 years in regulations and still required 5 WPM code cognition. The 'medical waivers' could only affect the 13 and 20 WPM rates by getting the rather rare 'doctor waiver.' With R&O 99-612 came the limit of ALL license testing at 5 WPM and thus the 'medical waivers' could not apply.
As to license classes allegedly NOT having any code test after 'restructuring' that was ONLY for the ALREADY no-code-test class of Technician. After 'restructuring' happend, FIVE of the SIX classes still had code-testing. Five out of six is NOT a "small remnant" [of code testing] despite the arrogant knowitall attitude of those who had passed 13 and 20 WPM claiming (as usual) that 5 WPM was a 'nothing' rate.
The so-called reply (squawked by my own un-favorite albatross-on-a-string stalker) tried to change the subject from snotty old-timers berating younger folks to (you guessed it) CODE TESTING. While N2EY has hypocritically claimed "it is over with (R&O 06-178)" he nonetheless cannot Let Go of his old adversaries nor really "not talk about" his opinion of code testing being "the worst thing" that could happen...including to USA amateur radio.
Code testing for all adminstrations was removed as a requirement and made an individual administration option near the end of July 2003 during the World Radio Conference of that year, specifically the rewrite of ITU Special Regulations S25. The FCC held off until 2005 to release NPRM docket 05-235 to allow citizen discussion on that docket. That docket discussion terminated in November 2005. A complete and legal Memorandum Report and Order, FCC 06-178 was released on 19 December 2006, 13 months after official end of all comments.
Meanwhile, the CHANGES in USA amateur radio regulations introduced by R&O 99-612 allowed many already-licensed USA radio amateurs to change class much more freely than before, especially those that wanted to 'upgrade' to General or Extra from 'lower' classes. All that palaver about the 'necessity' of high rates of radiotelegraphy insisted upon by the lofty ARRL and even more lofty olde-tymers (to 'earn' their privileges) was NOT effective, not even in the 18 Petitions to the FCC (the ARRL was denied two of theirs). Had the morseaholics and the ardent arrogant olde-tymers gotten their way, they would have continued to stifle, inhibit, and otherwise discourage all other radio hobbyists. Minority rule, repressive minority rule. That continuing even after the Civil Rights Acts made the country as a whole more democratic in principles.
Now how did those necessary-to-EARN regulations come about? Through POLITICS, nothing more. It certainly wasn't for any 'technical reasons' (at least in my lifetime...and I am two years older than the FCC). The number of USA amateur radio license classes went from the original 1 to 3, then up to 5 until 1991 when it got to the Byazntine Class Distinction of SIX.
'CW' use is STILL brought up as some kind of display that ONLY the olde-fahrts (of mental attitude) consider themselves THE BEST and therefore MUST RULE here and everywhere, even on amateur radio bands...and all 'younger' ones (of mental attitude) SHALL be freely and openly ridiculed forever and ever. Its a rather disgusting display of Minority Rule in a basically white male HOBBY activity to me.
................
N2EY: "Now we can get to work on the real problems."
Oh, my, how patrician a statement. One way to "work on those (unstated) problems" is TO START YOUR OWN ARTICLE ON THOSE 'REAL' PROBLEMS. All that is required is to follow e-ham rules (published, visible by following links on e-ham) and DO IT. Unfortunately, YOU will be subject to e-ham.net administration judgement. If you are rejected, you can start your own BLOG and advertise it any number of ways, speak your mind, insult whoever you want that is considered 'inferior' to your lofty precepts of forever retaining a living museum of old ideas and how you are so much better, so superior over the mundane, the ordinary. Go for it!
[no regards] AF6AY
|
| |
|
Wrong Place I Think it NOT.
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Jimmy whined on 11 Mar 09:
"Len, you responded in the wrong thread. NI0C is over in "Let's Take Ownership Of The Bands""
Does it matter? NI0C posted three times before your 'correction' and NI0C seems to remark/snark on any forum article that e-ham has.
For that matter, my 'reply' to NI0C's snarky comment had NOTHING to do with either article, only NI0C's attitude. <shrug>
If you wish to 'correct' anyone on anything, then pick and choose from SEVERAL posters that DO make REAL errors in the English language. I don't bother them since I can understand (uauslly) what they are talking about. YOU only 'correct' me...most of the time on nothing that NEEDS correction.
[no regards] AF6AY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W4HIJ replied to an ANONYMOUS olde-fahrt on March 10, 2009:
"QRZDXR2" wrote: "What the old hams are really saying about you is true.. you got your license from the toy box. You really didn't have to go through the "work for it" like they did yet you got the rewards given to you. [blah blah blah blah blah...]"
W4HIJ: "And here we have the perfect example of a bitter old diseased narrow minded fool! Actually I don't know how old this gent( and I use the term loosely) is but he's exactly the type we are talking about here. How nice of him to come here so we would have an example of just the attitude the original poster was talking about. Don't ya'll get it? Everything that he says is designed to try and incite and provoke and get under your skin. He enjoys it when you pay attention to him and you let him know something he said bothers you."
Michael, you NAILED that one. Trust me, as one who's been through 76 years of existance, I've seen most of His Kind...and had to endure along that way. :-)
I'll put it down to this ANONYMOUS coward that she fits right into that large niche of some who NEEDED amateur radio to find some reward/recognition, even notariety for not having done much outside of amateur radio. The motivation seems to be an Ego looking to be "better than others." At least in something.
There's a Latin phrase that has been used in advertising: "Primus inter pares." It translates to "first among equals," an oxymoron (and logical impossibility). Civil Aviation Systems Division of RCA Corporation used it for about a year to push their civil avionics products...until corporate finally paid attention to one of its lesser divisions and made them cease using it. This anony-mousie, probably ego-moronic from lack of oxygen, is trying to go it one better. :-) The irony at my former employer was that this division had EXCELLENT avionics at the time...comm, nav, and radar.
............
W4HIJ: "I'm sure he's enjoying being singled out right now even though it's for ridicule."
Yes, that's true of His Kind. It is an EGO drive and she probably can't help herself.
............
W4HIJ: "The best thing we can do is IGNORE these idiots."
That can be very difficult. They TRY to get everyone's face as much as possible. A very few get OBSESSIVE about it, becoming foul albatrosses hung on one's neck; N2EY is one of mine, getting putrid after ten years of his incessant 'corrections.' Yuck...
............
W4HIJ: "Their bitterness and negativity will eventually be the death of them."
That's true, but before then I rather like the Grande Sport of sticking needles in their ego balloons. That's a perverse kind of fun even if it litters the landscape with useless, deflated ego balloons. :-) [GO ARMY!] :-)
73, Len AF6AY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W0GTR on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KE7OSV has raised a real issue here, new hams face challenges to their legitimacy.
Like someone said, why not just talk to the nice people and ignore the real curmudgeons? Well, that's nice for people who have real estate and towers, who can beam all over the place...
HF being as dead as it is, if you live in an apartment you can pick between the birds or the local repeater. (Maybe I'll be more optimistic by summertime!)
When I was first licensed a couple of years ago I discovered I only got one free QSO from each regular on the chatty local repeater, after that no one would come back to me.
Amateur radio is a great hobby, but it's full of myths about newbies. MOST hams don't perpetuate these myths MOST of the time, but they're out there. KE7OSV is right about one thing, General today doesn't have the same shine, and it's because of these half-truths that go around:
MYTH: Elmers make new hams.
SPEAKING FOR MYSELF: No one ever taught me. I first heard about ham radio it through Skywarn, and from there it was all independent reading, self-study. About 25% of what I know is from ARRL books and the rest from the web pages of hams who were willing to write about their work.
True: Hams are willing to share their knowledge, but you have to Google for it. No one holds your hand. If you don't pull up by your own bootstraps, you can't be a new ham.
Elmering? Come on... The clubs I've seen hold their board meetings on WEEKDAY MORNINGS -- how is a working person supposed to get involved in that?
If you want to be a new ham, you have to be a self-starter.
MYTH: These new hams are just memorizing the test questions.
SPEAKING FOR MYSELF: I never have -- not a darn one! Most of what I learned for Tech, I taught myself while trying to figure out what kind of rig to buy (which by the way, the local ham club didn't write back to me when I asked for advice). Most of what I learned for General, I leaned trying to teach myself enough theory to build good stealth antennas.
I will credit the real old-timers like Cebik, who really shared everything he knew, all his ideas, on his web page, plus a few that are still around. The hams who share their knowledge freely... you know who you are! But they do it on the Web, that's really the only way that's fair and free.
MYTH: New hams have no experimenting skills.
True: I did take a few practice tests online, and I did read some review guides prepared by various hams, but mostly it was hands-on learning: building (and ruining) stuff. Just ask the guys at Radio Shack who see me in there replacing smoked fuses and scrapped coax every other week.
Just ask my wife, who is sick of my piles of discarded antenna experiments stinking up the closet with the smell of soldering flux.
MYTH: Taking code out of the test "dumbed it down."
SPEAKING FOR MYSELF: I took it upon myself to learn Morse code anyway, because I thought it would be useful. I need practice, and know it. I also need practice in ground-to-aircraft hand signals. We all need practice as communicators.
MYTH: New hams lack technical skill.
SPEAKING FOR MYSELF: I once heard someone say, "yeah, these new hams can't fix anything, because they don't have the diagnostic skill." Now, I tremendously respect those among us who can fix transceivers... but I don't awe them. WHEN YOU CAN WRITE SOFTWARE IN JAVA, THEN I WILL AWE YOU!!!
Not much difference in complexity between electronic diagnostics and object-oriented programming. And if you doubt, just try it out.
Maybe all those people who moan about the test being too easy, would be happy if there was a section testing LONG-OVERDUE computer competencies.
Something simple, like an equivalent to COMP-TIA's A+ (R) certification, would show basic proficiency. So we'd know you're good to update a sound card driver to get a digital mode working, or maybe configure a firewall exception to control an HF remote base over IP.
Frankly, that would probably impress our neighbors and emergency managers far more than our ability to check into a phone net.
So come on OM, try to remember when you were new. It was a different world then. Newbies can't live up to the standards of the past.
We'd better not, if we're going to try and keep the hobby alive for another 50 years.
73,
W0GTR
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by NO6L on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
>MYTH: New hams lack technical skill.
Yeah, this one gives me the giggles. I've only had HF privileges for two years and can run rings around most of these people talking head about how we're skilless.
Bring it on.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KB0TXC on March 11, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
NO6L WROTE:
<MYTH: New hams lack technical skill.
Yeah, this one gives me the giggles. I've only had HF privileges for two years and can run rings around most of these people talking head about how we're skilless.
Bring it on.>
KB0TXC responds:
I could not have stated this better. I will be the first to tell you that I am far from being an 'expert' about amateur radio, no matter what the Plank-AI program accuses me of thinking myself to be. However, that said, during these last two weeks between taking care of my spouse who is recovering from major surgery and writing my thesis, I tuned my B4TV after adding another ten ground radials (it is winter time and the ground is wet and squishy, allowing the wires to easily be pushed into the earth); designed and built an antenna switching system so that when I am listening to the HF bands, I can switch between an active HF antenna, a 'short longwire' and a loop (this is listening, my transmitting antennas are the 4BTV and a trapped dipole in the attic) and I started to recap my very old TT/L-2 RTTY TU that I have come into possession of. (Please, before someone accuses me of not being licensed to use the HF bands as if I were breaking the law, I am NOT transmitting yet. I simply have the gear and the antennas to do so...I hope to be active starting the first of May or there 'bouts.)
Now I know that this is not the same as replacing the SMT caps in my Icoms or designing and building a microprocessor controlled SDR, but still, it does demonstrate that this no-coder can build, repair and understand electronic systems to a degree that more than a few cannot. And to think that I can do this without that most blessed ability to copy CW.
Amazing.
Best and 73
Joe KB0TXC
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W7ETA on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Myth: Anecdotal experience is truth.
Myth: "New hams lack technical skills" means EVERY new ham.
"Why aren't you people begging KB9YKP to return to the air?"
Myth: There is a group of like minded people calling themselves "You People".
Myth: The group You People has a spokes person to beg KB9YKP to Please! Please! go back on 2 meter repeaters.
Myth: someone other than KB9YKP is better at deciding if KB9YKP should go play on 2 meter repeaters.
Myth: Novice hams are going to straighten out and save ham radio from ops with more than one sunspot cycle of experience.
Myth: Spinoza said "I think therefor it is".
Myth: A ham radio license insures whatever a ham thinks is 100% accurate.
Myth: Technical excellence creates high people to people skills.
Myth: Current 1X3s have as much knowledge as original 1X3s.
Myth: Shortly after WW II the US military stopped sending replacement troops to active units because of the difficulty new hams had being accepted by old hams.
Myth: Morris invented the code tapper.
Myth: Any antenna with low SWR is a good antenna.
Myth: Wayne Green was rational.
Best from warm Tucson
Bob
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AA8X on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Reading this post, it’s obvious you newbies enjoy bashing the elder/old fart hams and expect them to kiss your ass just because you are new to amateur radio. For your information, older hams spent many hours learning electronic theory and understand how receivers and transmitters work and can read schematics enabling them to repair and maintain the equipment. They learned the code, traveled many miles to a FCC office to take the code and theory test and wait 6 weeks to get the license in the mail at which time they spent the time setting up a station. Years ago you listened and learned from your elders. Now you memorize a manual, pay a few dollars and presto you are a ham. If you are unhappy with amateur radio and how you are treated, I suggest you give it up and engage in a different hobby. In the mean time listen and learn from the old farts, as I’m sure you will learn a lot and have a good time doing it.
|
| |
|
Numbers
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
N2EY: "The number of Technicians is growing in part because, since April 15, 2000, FCC has renewed all Technician Pluses as Technicians. There were over 128,000 Tech Pluses in April 2000, now there are less than 4000, and in about 13 months there will be no more Tech Pluses at all. In addition, any Novice who upgrades by passing the Tech written gets a Technician."
AF6AY: "tries once again to denigrate (his idea of) lower classes as he has done for years on forums."
Len, how does what I wrote denigrate anyone?
AF6AY: "what was that about R&O 99-612 said about ADVANCED or NOVICE classes? Will they still be around after May 2012?"
Probably. A Novice or Advanced who renews gets the same license class. A Technician Plus who renews gets a Technician. While the number of Novices and Advanceds is declining, they still far outnumber Tech Pluses.
Didn't you read 99-612?
AF6AY: "All I can see are facts of numbers and conclude from those. I know no one at the FCC, not even slightly."
Some of your conclusions are in error, and you leave out relevant facts, Len. The picture you paint is often distorted, and a poor illustration of reality.
N2EY: "If you add up the number of Technicians and Technician Pluses back in April 2000 and compare it with the same sum today, the result is a *decline* in both the total and the percentage."
AF6AY: "Not having such explicit information, all I can point to is a FEW statitstics pages before April 2007."
I do have that information. That's why I posted it.
AF6AY: "The only complete listing for earlier statistics is the December 1990 posting (on Compuserve?) from Richard Hoffbeck, N0LOX, to Fritz Anderson, WT9T [no relation to me] which was taken from the FCC database file for November 1988."
One can also look at old Callbooks, which had license totals.
What is the relevance of those 21 year old numbers today, Len?
AF6AY: "In these numbers presented on e-ham, I have not tried to 'highlight' any particular class"
Yes, you have, Len.
You've pointed to the increase in the number of Technicians over and over again, without mentioning some important factors that would cause it to grow, such as the renewal of Tech Pluses as Techs.
AF6AY: "If I draw conclusions based on data and their trends, those are mine alone and do not represent any self-defined Holy Judge of All such as ARRL or N2EY."
It seems, Len, that you do not want any commentary on your conclusions. You want to post your words online and only have people say nice things about them, without pointing out errors of fact and reasoning on your part. Nor should anybody post anything that disagrees with your sacred opinions.
N2EY: "Since the last remnant of code testing was removed from Part 97 about 2 years ago, we've seen a small amount of growth in the total number of US amateurs (as measured by unexpired licenses held by individuals). Which proves that code testing wasn't really a "barrier limiting growth" at all."
AF6AY: "Error, it "PROVES NOTHING" "
It proves exactly what I wrote. If Morse Code testing really was a "barrier" that was "limiting/stopping growth" in amateur radio, its removal would have resulted in a large increase in the number of amateurs. That hasn't happened, as you have noted. So it really wasn't a "barrier" at all.
AF6AY: "For example, in the language of the FCC Regulations prior to 'restructuring' of mid-2000, the 'medical waivers' existed only for 9 years in regulations and still required 5 WPM code cognition. The 'medical waivers' could only affect the 13 and 20 WPM rates by getting the rather rare 'doctor waiver.'"
Medical waivers for 13 and 20 wpm code were available from 1990 to 2000. All that was required was for a letter from a doctor - any M.D. or D.O. could sign it. How "rare" they were is a matter of opinion; FCC database info does not indicate who got a waiver and who didn't.
AF6AY: "With R&O 99-612 came the limit of ALL license testing at 5 WPM and thus the 'medical waivers' could not apply."
Point is, as of 1990 any license class was available with just 5 wpm and a doctor's letter. (And the written exams, of course.)
You could have gotten your Extra almost 20 years ago with just 5 wpm code and a doctor's letter, Len. Or you could have gotten it 9 years ago, as you said you were going to...
AF6AY: "As to license classes allegedly NOT having any code test after 'restructuring' that was ONLY for the ALREADY no-code-test class of Technician. After 'restructuring' happend, FIVE of the SIX classes still had code-testing. Five out of six is NOT a "small remnant" "
Yes, it is, Len, when you consider what it used to be. You weren't a ham then, so you don't really know.
It used to be that the General and Advanced required 13 wpm and Extra required 20 wpm. Sending and receiving, no waivers. No CSCEs, no retests in less than 30 days.
The remaining 5 wpm receiving test was just a remnant of what used to be.
AF6AY: "[of code testing] despite the arrogant knowitall attitude of those who had passed 13 and 20 WPM claiming (as usual) that 5 WPM was a 'nothing' rate."
I've never claimed 5 wpm was 'nothing', Len. You are obviously confusing me with others. What the shrinks call "transference".
AF6AY: "While N2EY has hypocritically claimed "it is over with (R&O 06-178)" "
But Len, it *is* over with. Morse Code testing is gone and it's not coming back. However, the *use* of Morse Code continues.
AF6AY: "he nonetheless cannot Let Go of his old adversaries nor really "not talk about" his opinion of code testing being "the worst thing" that could happen...including to USA amateur radio."
Len, what are you talking about? You're not making any sense. You're misquoting me, too.
AF6AY: "Had the morseaholics and the ardent arrogant olde-tymers gotten their way, they would have continued to stifle, inhibit, and otherwise discourage all other radio hobbyists."
Now you're just ranting, Len.
AF6AY: "Minority rule, repressive minority rule. That continuing even after the Civil Rights Acts made the country as a whole more democratic in principles."
Nonsense.
Let's talk about "minority rule"...
When the comments on the restructuring NPRM of 1998 were tallied, the result was that the majority of those commenting wanted either 2 or 3 code test speeds retained. Only a minority wanted just 5 wpm.
But FCC went with what the minority wanted, and eliminated all but 5 wpm. And in the R&O, FCC made it clear that the ONLY reason they kept 5 wpm was because of the ITU treaty.
When the comments on the restructuring NPRM of 2005 were tallied, the result was that the majority of those commenting wanted at least some code testing to be retained. Only a minority wanted no code testing at all.
But FCC went with what the minority wanted, and eliminated it completely.
Those are the plain and simple facts. In both cases, the MINORITY got what they wanted, and the MAJORITY did not.
AF6AY: "Now how did those necessary-to-EARN regulations come about? Through POLITICS, nothing more. It certainly wasn't for any 'technical reasons' (at least in my lifetime...and I am two years older than the FCC)."
How do you know, Len? You've never worked for FCC.
AF6AY: "The number of USA amateur radio license classes went from the original 1 to 3, then up to 5 until 1991 when it got to the Byazntine Class Distinction of SIX."
No, that's not correct. (The following is about USA amateur radio licenses)
Yes, there was originally just one amateur license class. But even in the 1920s there were two license classes, and by the 1930s there were three (A, B and C).
The 1951 restructuring increased the number of license classes to six: Novice, Technician, General, Conditional, Advanced and Extra. That structure continued for more than 25 years, until, in the 1970s, the FCC phased out the Conditional by renewing all Conditionals as General.
The five-class structure (Novice, Technician, General, Advanced and Extra) existed for about a dozen years until the Technician Plus was added in the early 1990s.
In about a year the last Technician Plus will disappear and we'll be back to 5 classes, same as in the 1980s.
Gee, Len, if you're going to lecture us about history and regulations, you could at least get the facts right.
btw, the word is "Byzantine". Even an amateur writer knows that.
I think I know what you want amateur radio to become:
You'd have just one license class, earned by a simple multiple choice test of 25 questions. Or maybe no test at all. Everyone would have a similar callsign. No vanity calls, no difference in structure. You'd allow no contests or operating awards, no recognitions of operating skills. You'd channelize the amateur bands and allow all modes anywhere.
I think you'd also disband the ARRL, or have it stop all activities other than publishing. You'd do everything possible to discourage the use of modes like CW and AM voice, and to encourage the use of automated modes requiring no operator skill. You'd change the rules so that homebrewing or even using vintage equipment was almost impossible for the average person.
Most of all, you'd require that Amateur Radio be described as a HOBBY whenever it is mentioned, and that public service/emcomm stuff be minimized.
I've come to the above conclusions based on reading many, many of your words.
AF6AY: "'CW' use is STILL brought up as some kind of display that ONLY the olde-fahrts (of mental attitude) consider themselves THE BEST and therefore MUST RULE here and everywhere, even on amateur radio bands...and all 'younger' ones (of mental attitude) SHALL be freely and openly ridiculed forever and ever."
Len, you're describing your own behavior again. What is your purpose in referring to others as "gomer", "olde-fahrts" "morseaholics" or by diminutive nicknames?
Do you think that behavior makes you look smart, brave, funny or young?
Here's a clue: It doesn't.
Show us an example where I have ridiculed anyone for simply being a newcomer, or for not knowing Morse Code. Links to exact quotes, not claims. I don't think you can.
You make a lot of claims about me, but cannot provide anything to back them up.
N2EY: "Now we can get to work on the real problems."
AF6AY: "Oh, my, how patrician a statement."
Why is that a 'patrician statement'?
It is clear that the real causes of lack-of-growth are things like lack of publicity and anti-antenna CC&Rs.
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W0GTR on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
From reading the comments, I can see that of the older hams feel like new hams must want to be kow-towed to, just because they're new hams.
That's not true, at least not for me. I expect to earn my stripes like everyone else. And the fact that you had to spend all that time learning electronics theory, or that it was so inconvenient to write the exam back in those days... is only something to respect and admire.
But what I don't admire is the lack of recognition for the skills that new hams (or old hams, on the cutting edge of new technology) bring to the table.
Don't get me wrong: I love history, and have a tremendous respect for the solutions of the past. Furthermore, I love stuff that still works after 20 or 30 or 40 years. Those approaches were good enough for the people who lived in that world, at that time.
But why is it that none of the people who complain about the skills of new hams are never overheard struggling with *new* technologies? (As in, developed within the last 20 years.)
"Gee, I was trying to build one of those open source, software-defined radio packages, and had trouble with the C libraries -- has anyone taken a look at the header file?"
"Yeah, my router will translate traffic to the repeater controller through port 5000, but I'd like to put in an IPv4 range on the firewall -- what's the format again?"
"Our radio club web page still won't execute that script... what's the recursive switch again on that chmod, is it capital or lowercase r?"
There should be no doubt about it: Computers are moving amateur radio forward. It also took us hours... and hours... and hours to learn those skills. (I spent three days configuring my first RedHat 7.3 distro.) It's up to you if you choose to stay behind, but as least move over, will ya?
All I'm trying to say is that lots of new hams DO have skills, they're just skills that often are not recognized. And that leaves less room in amateur radio for experimentation.
As to the alleged new "Extra" who couldn't solder a PL-259, how is it that the 802.11 wireless crowd -- who aren't even hams -- are experimenting building their own stacked 2.4 GHz collinears? These guys are building passive repeater systems and making RF links over great distances. No lack of hands-on there.
Could it be... What if it's true that amateur radio doesn't know how to attract most of the "best and the brightest" anymore? What if it's true that amateur radio doesn't lead the field in RF experimentation?
Hey OM, we know that you know a lot... you don't need to brag... your skills are respected! But look hard, and you'll see there's a lot more going on that no one could imagine way back when.
Thanks to everyone who put forward their ideas and responses!
73 de W0GTR
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W7AIT on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hey Terry: I’ll gladly help you. I’ve been a ham since 1964 AT AGE 14. During that time I’ve personally elmered and helped license about 20 hams or more. I continue to help new hams all the time. I’m a degreed engineer and even though I’m now retired, I gladly help any new hams or potential hams, yes even CBer’s who want help. I even give away some equipment, accessories to them from time to time.
As far as CW – it needed to go away as a testing requirement. Its time has past as a profession. HOWEVER I use CW in about 90% of my hamming because it has tremendous signal advantage over SSB or any voice mode. So I think CW will always be around, just less of it. It might be good to operate it from time to time because you can quickly and easily work DX on CW – it gets through when SSB does not. I won’t ever put you down because of CW. I like it for these reasons and maybe you will too some day.
Digital modes aren’t all as great as they are cracked up to be, they take a lot of equipment, software etc and not everyone has that nor is everyone wanting to talk on a keyboard; the mic and key are much more fun than a keyboard!
Please, hang in there and hang with the right people; all of us old timers are not bad guys, a lot of us are here to help. Not all hams are old curmudgeon old farts – a lot of us want to help you enjoy the hobby. Just seek out people you like and enjoy the hobby. Its given me years of enjoyment.
Chip W7AIT
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KB0TXC on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
AA8X wrote:
Reading this post, it’s obvious you newbies enjoy bashing the elder/old fart hams and expect them to kiss your ass just because you are new to amateur radio. For your information, older hams spent many hours learning electronic theory and understand how receivers and transmitters work and can read schematics enabling them to repair and maintain the equipment. They learned the code, traveled many miles to a FCC office to take the code and theory test and wait 6 weeks to get the license in the mail at which time they spent the time setting up a station. Years ago you listened and learned from your elders. Now you memorize a manual, pay a few dollars and presto you are a ham. If you are unhappy with amateur radio and how you are treated, I suggest you give it up and engage in a different hobby. In the mean time listen and learn from the old farts, as I’m sure you will learn a lot and have a good time doing it.
KB0TXC Responds:
This post demonstrates why many people are put off by the those amateur ops that act like old farts. This is the epitome of the old sour puss who is pissed off because admittance to "his" hobby and "his" airwaves no longer requires the rite of passage that involved the ability to copy the old and outmoded CW.
Thats right OM, continue to be bitter about the "you newbies" as you so un-eloquently call them. They did not have to pass the code test like you did to use the HF frequencies. How terribly unfair! (sarcasm intended) There are still those OF amateurs that continue to bitch that we do not need to be proficient in code to use the VHF and UHF frequencies!
I am sure that you had to walk six miles everyday to school in a driving blizzard up hill both ways <as well as> pass your precious code exam. So? What do you want from me? A medal or a chest to pin it on? Times change, OM. Times really do change, and one can be bitter about it or accept that times do change. It is not my Karma that is damaged by your bitterness.
CW is fine for those who like it. More power to you. It is a great skill that is very difficult to learn, particularly for those of us that are not audio learners. However, (and thank Bastet) it is no longer being used as a gatekeeper to prevent folk from becoming an amateur radio operator. Just like written English proficiency tests are no longer used to keep those folks of minority ethnicities from voting in old Dixie.
The ladies aid society of Newington is still fuming over the FCC dismissing their beatings and protestations of removing the code requirement from the amateur radio license requirement. How charming. The OFs at the Newington knitting club were (and are still) pissed. Tsk tsk.
Life goes on, OM. Either go with it or be left behind. I am sure that there are plenty of CW nets out there to participate in where the no code "you newbies" will not bother you and your ilk with their modern, no-code ways.
Finally, the tone of your post makes me feel that you think that those "you newbies" should genuflect in front of you and grovel at your feet in admiration and worship of your skills and amateur radio prowess. How cute. You probably really feel that way, too. Sorry, I am not a "you newbie" as I have been a licensed amateur op for 14 years (first licensed in 1995). Though I do have respect for those that come before me and their skills, if they have the attitude that I *must* be in awe of their skills or whatever, then sorry, you be outta luck.
Joe KB0TXC
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by K2LS on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
It takes all kinds.
WELCOME!!!
I have been licensed for 53 years and get the most pleasure out of helping new hams.
Please, do not be discourages..
73, Larry
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KILO4UUG on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I thought so untill I received this E-MAIL from oldfartextra@yahoo.com STEVE OLD FART 13 WHO CLAIMS TO BE AN EXTRA CLASS HAM BUT NEVER GIVES HIS CALL SIGN.
"Don;t worry Rick, I will always know that I earned a real ham license and did not wait for the FCC to dumb down the requirement so the that losers like K4UUG could get a useless welfare license."
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N4TTS on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
So the "old farts" won't let you play in any of their reindeer games?
Oh boo friggen hoo junior.
Every night I finally get some time after work,
family time and home chores to speak with my radio
friends of almost 20 years and what happens?
We have to endure an almost constant litany of
"contact", "break", "QRZ" or whatever other CB
colloquialism the ninja newbies can puke into
their microphone to try to garner attention from
the group.
Now, we may be discussing backyard nuclear fission
experiments, long legged women, observations of
older age life experiences or whatever the topic du jour.
The little tiny voices in the background get more desperate
and insistent by the second until one of us has a soft hearted
moment and acknowledge the poorly social graced interrupter
only to have the exact same scenario play itself out ad nauseam:
<crackle, screech, buzzzzzzzz> " This is Newbie 9 No Life Wannabe,
that's N9NLW (now a blazing S1), my first personal is Dick,
I spell P E N I S, I'm running 10 watts into a $200.00 G5VD antenna
on my Swan 3 and I wuz just wondering how many pounds am I puttin'
on ya tonight and where are you guys at"?
Our soft hearted and dumbfounded friend is now required to engage
in yet another 20 minute explanation to poor ol' "Dick" telling him just
because he can hear us with 20 over nine signals doesn't preclude his
signal level and intelligibility from being no where near par.
Normally instead of bringing the realization to "Dick" he may need
to rethink his station lash up, it usually causes the Dickster to become
incredulous or angry and then argumentative over his less than
stellar report.
While all this is taking place it's almost as if a fly spotting network
has published our frequency as the location of a road-kill-ripe opossum
feast because now we have a bevy of "Dicks" queuing up for their own
turn at disappointment. Then all the "Dicks" start talking among themselves,
ignoring the fact the original group was enjoying a little camaraderie
and conversation of our own before they so rudely interrupted the
proceedings with their self-serving, self-centered agendas.
Can you ever imagine, being a complete stranger, walking up and
crowding into the center of a group of friends standing on a public
street and screaming, "can you guys hear me"? It's the same thing boys.
Before getting all teary-eyed about not getting respect, acceptance and
attention with your shiny new license in hand, try to learn the meaning of
a few words such as: elocution, patience, listening, humble, manners
and a few others that deal with social grace.
Another thing, if you don't know how your station sounds BEFORE you
get on the air with it, you need to perform more due diligence with respect
to communications electronics and propagation knowledge.
My best advise would be, don't be a "Dick"...
Don N4TTS
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KB0TXC on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
N4TTS wrote:
So the "old farts" won't let you play in any of their reindeer games...
Oh boo friggen hoo junior...
(etc ad nauseam).
KB0TXC (the disgusted) responds:
Another old fart country heard from! (Eating some burnt toast will help that gas problem, OM.) My god, the "ham" community suffers such sever health disorders...geeze, stewed prunes for AI2IA and now, burnt toast for N4TTS!
AHHH HAAHAAHAAHAAHAAA...
Snerk...
Glad that you hold yourself and your skills in such high regard, OM... The fifteen year old that I Elmered and helped get on the air has a nicer attitude and spirit (as well as better on air manners) than you.
Now go walk six miles to school in a blizzard...old fart!
Joe KB0TXC
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N4TTS on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KB0TXC (the uninformed) dribbled:
Another old fart... blah, blah, blah...
N4TTS succinctly responds:
A prime example of yet another "Dick".
Stay on two meters, it's obviously where you belong.
Don N4TTS
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by K4EDG on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Wow. The amount of vitriol generated in this thread is really amazing, as is the number of "chips on shoulders" conspicuously displayed. Can't we all just get along since we are all in the same electronic boat together? As a friend of mine once said, "If you are not having fun, you are doing something wrong." Fighting with each other takes the fun out of the room.
Peace.
|
| |
|
The Escher License Class
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I think I have a solution to the problem of old timers, newcomers, tests, etc.
What's needed is a new class of amateur radio license: The Escher Class
In order to earn an Escher Class license, you must already have a valid FCC-issued amateur license. But that's just the beginning.
The test part is the big thing:
If you're an old-timer, you have to pass the current exams for your license class, at a real live VE session. And you have to get as good or better score as the best-scoring person there who isn't going for Escher Class.
If you're a newcomer, you have to pass the old-time exams from, say, 40 or 50 years ago.
The Escher Class license doesn't give you any more operating privileges than you already have, nor a vanity call.
What the Escher Class license does is give you a trump card. Whenever someone starts to gripe about newcomers, oldtimers, or testing, you simply mention that you have an Escher Class license, and they automatically lose the argument.
Waddya think, sirs?
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W4HIJ on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Before one more old fart decides to post about"newbies" not respecting them I think it should be pointed out that a lot of the post here that decry the attitude and demeanor of the "old farts" are from older long licensed experienced hams.
Age or experience in radio doesn't make you the type of person I'm talking about and writing against, it's the attitude.
The "that guy didn't have to pass what I did to get his license so I'm not going to talk to him or if I do I'm going to treat him like crap" attitude is what all this is about.
I'm 46 now, I have been licensed since I was 15. I passed a written exam as well as a code test to get my ticket. Want to tell me me, I'm some newbie disrespecting you? Nope, I'm an older long experienced ham and I'm disrespecting you sour pussed narrow minded old farts because you don't deserve my respect. You act like nothing more than children.
Funny thing is I'd bet if put on the spot most of you would be hard pressed to pass today's Extra class written exam that you whine constantly is so easy.
This business about being able to work on radios is ridiculous too. Sure you probably can troubleshoot and work on a Drake TR-4 or a Collins or maybe an old Hallicrafters receiver. I can too. But how many of you can troubleshoot and repair a modern day microprocessor controlled rig full of SMD technology like a Kenwood TS-2000 or a Yaesu FT-1000? I'd bet not many of you. I can't either.
Quit acting like you're Gods gift to radio and get on with your lives. GEEEZ!! I've wasted enough of my life on this thread, time for me to move on.
I just couldn't stand to read another post by one of you narrow minded old fools claiming newbies didn't respect you. I'm far from a newbie and I don't respect you.
73,
Michael
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W6PU on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hello Terry, sorry that you're having this problem!
Except for some DX contests, I pretty much have been avoiding using SSB for the last five years, in favor of CW operating, as IMO, SSB has been sounding more and more like the worst examples of the CB band!
In the 70s, my best friend, who I would say has only average intelligence, was a CB operator, and asked me to help him to become a Ham.
He was able to pass his Novice test one month later, and presently holds an Advanced Class Ham ticket.
He is a considerate and excellent Ham Radio operator, who operates mainly on the HF bands, but has also switched over from SSB, to CW, for the same reasons as I have!
I do not find this crass behavior to be occurring on the CW bands, where good manners and civility are still the norm!
I would suggest that you take the time to learn CW, and give it a try. Learning CW really doesn't take all that long, and I taught my XYL in about two weeks.
In my ham career, I have helped many others to learn CW, and it has never been longer than one month before they were on the air copying at least 10 WPM!
Once you actually get on the air with CW, you will just be amazed how quickly your code speed increases as you practice more and more!
73
Bob W6PU
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W6PU on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hello Terry, sorry that you're having this problem!
Except for some DX contests, I pretty much have been avoiding using SSB for the last five years, in favor of CW operating, as IMO, SSB has been sounding more and more like the worst examples of the CB band!
In the 70s, my best friend, who I would say has only average intelligence, was a CB operator, and asked me to help him to become a Ham.
He was able to pass his Novice test one month later, and presently holds an Advanced Class Ham ticket.
He is a considerate and excellent Ham Radio operator, who operates mainly on the HF bands, but has also switched over from SSB, to CW, for the same reasons as I have!
I do not find this crass behavior to be occurring on the CW bands, where good manners and civility are still the norm!
I would suggest that you take the time to learn CW, and give it a try. Learning CW really doesn't take all that long, and I taught my XYL in about two weeks.
In my ham career, I have helped many others to learn CW, and it has never been longer than one month before they were on the air copying at least 10 WPM!
Once you actually get on the air with CW, you will just be amazed what fun it is, how quickly your code speed increases as you practice more and more!
73
Bob W6PU
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W6PU on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Hello Terry, sorry that you're having this problem!
Except for some DX contests, I pretty much have been avoiding using SSB for the last five years, in favor of CW operating, as IMO, SSB has been sounding more and more like the worst examples of the CB band!
In the 70s, my best friend, who I would say has only average intelligence, was a CB operator, and asked me to help him to become a Ham.
He was able to pass his Novice test one month later, and presently holds an Advanced Class Ham ticket.
He is a considerate and excellent Ham, who operates mostly on the HF bands, and has also switched over from SSB, to CW, for the same reasons as I have!
I do not find this crass behavior to be occurring on the CW bands, where good manners and civility are still the norm!
I would suggest that you take the time to learn CW, and give it a try. Learning CW really doesn't take all that long, and I taught my XYL in about two weeks.
In my ham career, I have helped many others to learn CW, and it has never been longer than one month before they were on the air copying at least 10 WPM!
Once you actually get on the air with CW, you will just be amazed what fun it is, how quickly your code speed increases as you practice more and more!
73
Bob W6PU
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KE7AKS on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W E L C O M E new ham ! please don't let a few old grouches get to you about radio. We should always appreciate some one that will talk to us, be they old or new. Try to imagine owning a multi thousand dollar super radio with all the bells and whistles, but no one wants to talk to you. The net worth of that radio then is about two cents. That may be the situation of the old farts in your area. If you ever have occasion to travle through the Portland Oregon area, you will be very welcome on the air ways here. 146.960 no tone
or 147.040 we probably have some very interesting lies to convey to you... I also feel that is is a chalenge to each of us to try to talk about something INTERESTING... Not just NAME IS--- LOCATION IS--- RADIO IS--- ANTENNA IS--- WEATHER IS---
73
Harv KE7AKS
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W45HIJ writes: "Funny thing is I'd bet if put on the spot most of you would be hard pressed to pass today's Extra class written exam that you whine constantly is so easy."
You'd lose that bet with me. I know because every couple of months I try a couple of online practice tests.
---
I think the big problem is that some folks talk/write in sweeping generalities that really only apply to a few.
For example, I'm sure that at least some newcomers simply memorize, word-associate and guess their way through the exams, and don't really understand much about the material. And I'm sure there are some old grumpy-gus types who don't understand the first thing about, say, satellite tracking, PSK31 or solidstate RF power amplifiers.
But in my experience those folks are a tiny minority. They're the exception, not the rule. So it naturally raises hackles to read condemnations of whole groups for the actions and attitudes of a few.
Remember that respect works both ways.
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KK1S on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I'm 63, with some "back-in-the-day" experience as a radio/radar repair tech. After a 30+ year absence I recently got into ham radio as an "extra-out-of-the-box." That's much worse than being merely a "new ham." Have I taken flack over that? Absolutely, but never of the sort that caused me to consider quitting ham radio.
As a "shake-and-bake," no code, extra class operator, I knew going in that I would likely have my feet held to the fire by my elders and betters, and by the more experienced operators among us. True to expectation, that's happened, and I sincerely hope it continues. Who better to teach me than those who have already been there, done that?
After all (a little radio humor here), many of the
"older hams" had to walk 25 miles in a blinding blizzard (uphill both ways) and sit for their exams before unsmiling, unblinking "suits" from the FCC, not friendly, smiling VEs. No coffee, no sticky buns, no head calls, no cell phones, no calculators, no nothing, save their desire for a ticket.
They had to beat out code, know enough about radio to draw and explain various electronic circuits, and just generally know a heck of a lot more about this hobby than we newbies. It's worth mentioning that many of those "Older Hams" built their own equipment back then, and some still do, to this day.
Contrast that, if you will, with we newbies. Memorize the question pools, pass the exams (no code, no real electronics knowledge), then jump on the net and buy the latest and greatest equipment available. Voila! Instant ham radio operator extraordinaire, at a K and a half. No wonder they're a bit pissed.
You said "I am disturbed at the less than enthusatic welcome that I have received from many of the 'Older Hams'" You were expecting, perhaps, a brass band? The
"Older Hams," as you describe them, require that you prove yourself as an operator, nothing more, or less.
That, my ham friend, is on you...
"Title equal to that of an older ham?" Of course it is, but if you see any disparity there, I suggest you join a club. There's a lot to be learned from the crusty old curmudgeons.
I find it interesting that after only a year and a half you have "evaluated" ham radio and solicited criticism of a hobby that has been around for quite some time, before yours or mine, and will hopefully outlive us both.
Exhibit good operating practice, focus on learning how to use your equipment effectively, how and why it works, and find your niche. If you don't like the
"old hams," avoid them. You can even go digital, and avoid CW and/or phone.
"A hobby that few find interesting?" That notion is laughable on its face. You got here, did you not?
The "older hams" are nothing more, or less, than a national treasure. Personality and political issues aside, if this hobby is not for you, then begone.
All said and done, welcome to ham radio.
73
WA4KGM
ARRL/W5YI VE
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AA5JG on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Here is an analogy from the business world that also applies to our current licensing situation:
Supposed you have worked at the same company for 25 years. You have earned a college degree and a master's degree because they were required for your job. You have learned quite a bit on the job, have had several promotions, and earn a decent salary. You are happy at your job and have no plans to leave.
The company reorganizes a bit and they hire a new employee and put him in the office next to yours. He has no previous work experience, and in fact is a high school dropout. They give him the same job title as you have, and pay him the same amount as you currently make.
So how would you feel? Most people would be instinctively angry. They would feel that this is unfair. They might even treat this new employee poorly and refuse to associate with him, harboring some hostility towards him for making the same amount of money as they do.
But why? Your salary hasn't been reduced at all. You make the same as before. Your job hasn't been cheapened at all, has it? It isn't this new employees fault that they decided to give him the same salary as you, or that he didn't have to earn a master's degree. Still, most people would say that this is somehow unfair.
Now see what some of us 20wpm extras might be feeling at times?
73s John AA5JG
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KB0TXC on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
N4TTS blathered:
A prime example of yet another "Dick".
Stay on two meters, it's obviously where you belong.
KB0TXC (the unimpressed with the pre-adolescent-esc attempt at an insult) responds:
This is the prime example to be held up by the "ham" community as an "OLD FART"!
Maybe the Newington knitting club can come up with an award JUST FOR YOU, OLD FART! You can proudly display it for all the world to see.
ALL HAIL THE OLD FART AND HIS PRECIOUS 20 WPM CW SKILLS!
Why don't you go take a Viagra pops, and get over yourself. No one else takes you seriously.
No 73's for the OLD FART!
Joe KB0TXC
Oh, by the way, I not only work 2 meter, but 222MHz, and the 440MHz band, and 2 meter mostly in SSB. The only time that I really listen to a 2 meter repeater is during foul weather. I have most of my HF gear put together, and I hope to have my new "welfare" general ticket this May, and I WILL BE ON HF, OLD FART! And if you do not like it OLD FART, all I can say is that it sucks to be you!
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N6NKN on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I must say. eHam does seem to bring out the best in people. LOL
Rick N6NKN
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by WD9FUM on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
RE: John, AA5JG's business world example.
So, The Company hires some kid who couldn't pour beer out of a bottle if it had directions on the bottom.
Hell yes, I'd be mad... at The Company!
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N4TTS on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KB0TXC (feebly attempting to piss someone off) spewed:
This is the prime example to be held up by the "ham" community...
N4TTS (non-pharmaceutically assisted) stiffly stated:
Joe, I've seen better flames on a wet match.
Whatever self-deluded adventure you're on doesn't
impress or affect me in the least.
You can get five box top general tickets for all I care.
Your intelligence will never even approach subpar so
go back and play with your high freak buddies until
you memorize enough test answers to get your toy upgrade.
I look forward to ignoring you on the bands.
Don N4TTS
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KB0TXC on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Rick N6NKN wrote:
I must say. eHam does seem to bring out the best in people. LOL
KB0TXC responds:
Doesn't it though, HIHI???!!!!
I normally would not unload like this, but that OF just got under my skin with his bitterness.
What I am saying is not about whether or not I agree or disagree with someone. There are a lot of folk that I disagree with, sometimes strongly, but who I still have the utmost respect for.
There are two regular gents on these forums, both of whom that I have a great deal of respect for, but that constantly disagree with each other in rather interesting banter.
Len AF6AY (Hope that I got that right) is an old time electronic comms guy from the military during a time when there were no satellites, no digital error checking, when reception depended upon how well one could tune a rack mounted (actually a huge number of rack mounted) tube receivers, when things such as understanding ionospheric propagation had to be as familiar as the back of your hand, when transmission powers could instantly kill you yet you had to work on the transmitters 'hot' sometimes...the list is endless. I admire that and respect that of him. Yet Len disagrees with my premise that name of our space agency NASA really stands for Never A Straight Answer, and that there have been so many anomalies found on the moon and some of the planets and or their moons, that there is a huge hidden set of knowledge out there that is being kept from us. That is OK... I do not think less of Len because he disagrees with me. Indeed, I listen to his thoughts upon my thinking of this subject with the idea that I need to find even more evidence (not rhetoric) to support statements.
Then there is Jim N2EY who has been an amateur radio operator for years and years. He probably knows the insides of the old hollowstate gear that I love so much better than most amateur ops (definitely including me) left today do. I have a good feeling that Jim knows the FCC rules and regs better than some at the ARRL (That I belong to and lovingly refer to as the Newington knitting club) do as well as knowing and practicing the best of the amateur operating procedures. However, he disagrees with me on several issues, specifically labor and political issues. That is OK too. Again, I might not agree, but I really respect his knowledge, his ability and his willingness to intelligently communicate with me. He is also a 20+ WPM CW operator, but he has never used that as a means belittle me as I am a no-code operator. He is not a CW 'old fart' by any stretch.
No, I usually react to those posts with a few comments, but N4TTS really is an old, bitter sourpuss whose spirit has the potential to drive off new and prospective amateur radio operators.
As I have stated elsewhere, I am no "newbie" as I have been licensed and active for 14 going on 15 years (god, has it been that long), and some of the most inspiring new amateurs are the kids. I have helped teach several amateur radio classes, and personally Elmered a now fifteen year old to get his license. Once he had his ticket, I made sure that he had a radio and antenna...we built a modified J-pole and I recrystaled an old FM rig for him. (I knew his mother way back when we were in high school) Now his mom is getting into radio as well. I sure as hell hope that when he gets his general, that he will not run into N4TTS...he would probably take up stamp collecting if he did...
Best and 73
Joe KB0TXC
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
AA8X, a self-proclaimed God of Ham, wanting to engage in Word War III, crayon-scribbled on 12 Mar 09:
"Reading this post, it’s obvious you newbies enjoy bashing the elder/old fart hams and expect them to kiss your ass just because you are new to amateur radio."
Your Extreme Worship and Lord High Mighty Sir AA8X, I qualify (also in some other eyes from Mount Olympus in Newington) as a 'newbie' to AMATEUR radio and was born in 1932. Since you are arithmetically challenged, that would make me 76. Here's some NEWS to you to contemplate while you are sitting on your High Throne (a one-holer): I took my first-ever amateur radio license test when I was 74. Ah, but now here's where you run out of Sears Catalog pages (to substitute for toilet tissue in your mighty throne): I've been a PROFESSIONAL in electronics for 56 years, have legally transmitted RF on frequencies from VLF on up to 25 GHz, once "worked" a station ON the moon. I could go on, but it would be like taking candy from a baby, you obviously being the mental infant.
................
AA8X: "For your information, older hams spent many hours learning electronic theory and understand how receivers and transmitters work and can read schematics enabling them to repair and maintain the equipment."
Ooooooooo! Such a STRUGGLE for you...you being SO OLD and all! Tell us when the President of the United States presents you with the Medal of Freedom as a reward for your Service to the Country by doing your amateur radio hobby for so long...I'm sure the ARRL Letter would feature you as Hero of the Year!
Oh, oh, oh, oh...you had to LEARN SCHEMATICS! Wow, a Nobel Prize quality if there ever was one. As a voluntary Army enlistee DURING the Korean War, I was required to very quickly learn to transmit on HF, then VHF and UHF, even though the US Army did NOT teach me formally how to use high-power HF transmitters NOR the overall communications system that spanned the globe in the 1950s. NO LICENSE REQUIRED OR NEEDED for that. We real 'newbies' just went and DID IT. At the same time we soldiers also had to practice on keeping our skills of killing the enemy. So, most High Holy AA8X, did you ever HAVE to kill people while doing your heroic AMATEUR radio? Hmmmm?
Geez, LEARNING SCHEMATICS is some PhD task fit only for the Supermen of Amateur Radio? I think your ego balloon has gone up above angels 50 and you have no parachute.
Wow and wowee Superham, you HAD TO REPAIR YOUR OWN RADIO?!? Gollee Gomer, I could replace tubes and solder wires while I was still in Junior High School (62 years ago for me)..and did. I never thought that was a skill at all, certainly not something to be featured in the Smithsonian Museum. I learned, somewhat, how "receivers and transmitters worked" in that same time period. Learning from borrowed issues of CQ and QST, articles in Popular Science and Radio Craft ALL BY MYSELF. I didn't think anything special about it, it was just fun. Of course I had to UNlearn a lot of that, replacing it with REAL theory that was repeatable and measureable. Well, here's more news, Superfart: NOBODY GAVE ME ANY MONEY to study electronics, I had to pay for formal classes out of my own pocket when it was too difficult to study 'theory' at home...NOBODY injected me with any Secret Smart Nanites that gave me all the knowledge I had to get for myself. I've devoted thousands of hours of my own time over the last half century learning more, as much as I could, using that knowledge on the job successfully. Why does Your Mightyness DISCREDIT that because I did not get an amateur radio license until 2007? Why does Your Superiorness DISCREDIT things like getting a First Class Commercial license 51 years before that? Yes, according to Your Mightyness, WE have to do like YOU did or be thought of as NOTHING.
...............
AA8X (Superham): "They learned the code, traveled many miles to a FCC office to take the code and theory test and wait 6 weeks to get the license in the mail at which time they spent the time setting up a station."
Oh, oh, Oh, OHHHH! How DEFICIENT US NEWBIES must be compared to these GODS of HAM! We (hack, spit, ptui) 'newbies' DIDN'T ALL LEARN MORSE CODE! Morse code, the VERY ESSENCE OF RADIO? Here's a clue, Most Superior Excellency and God of Ham, when I was assigned to Signal School in the Army, I discovered the REST OF THE RADIO WORLD DIDN'T THINK MUCH ABOUT MORSE CODE. That was in 1952. Hello? Like 57 years ago. When the Army assigned me to the third-largest HF station in ACAN in 1953, I learned that NO RADIO CIRCUIT crossing the Pacific used morse code mode to handle a quarter million messages a MONTH. [has the amateur NTS en toto handled even a tenth of that a year?] WE didn't think anything of it at the time, we just DID it. Yes, WE didn't "make everything ourselves" as another God of HAM keeps puffing about...WE used left-over ready-builts from WWII, NO license required, NO morse code skills required, NO formal schooling required (Fixed-Station Equipment MOSs didn't exist then), WE just DID it...and HAD to repair things ourselves if they went bad...no Sams folders to go by, no Einsteinian "Hints and Kinks" columns from QST...our only mentors were higher rank enlisted soldiers and Technical Manuals. How about that, warfighting done WITHOUT MORSE CODE! In the 1950s! NO FCC LICENSE REQUIRED! Working DX 24/7 because we HAD to.
After active duty was over in 1956, I thought it a good thing to get a Commercial license at age 23. It was good for personal income. Let me explain something to your 'Elders.' The FCC NEVER REGULATED MILITARY RADIO. Civilian regulations WERE NOT TAUGHT BY THE MILITARY. I had to learn the FCC civilian regulations by myself. Okay, I just buckled down and tried to memorize the ENTIRE FCC regulations at the time. I traveled the short 90-mile distance to a Chicago Field Office by train. Was a nice sunny day at the end of February 1956 and I kept my shoes on all the way, no snow to walk barefoot through the snow uphill both ways. Gosh, when I think back on it, compared to these Superior ELDERS, the Gods of Amateurism, I had it SO EASY! "Everything was given to me, I had all the advantages" chirped N2EY several times (another God of Ham on here). My Commercial license certificate arrived in the mail in 3 weeks, not 6.
Yeah, compared to a Sunday of 25 February 2007, I just drove a mile to a former firehouse (in the 2005 car we had paid for in cash), parked in the supermarket across the street, went in and took it, passed it. I had it so EASY! Paid $14 to the ARRL VEC team and just went and passed all three test elements. Easy, easy, easy, right? You don't think a mere 54 years as a Pro in electronics before that helped? Like 15 assorted years of formal college training done IN ADDITION to a Pro job of minimum 40 hours a week helped any? No, I had it SO easy, I must stand in shame in front of these Gods of Ham who became novitiates in tender teen years and took Vows of Morsemanship, of lifelong Worship of the Church of St.Hiram? Gosh, Superham, I shoold feel so unworthy, right? WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.
................
SUPERHAM AA8X: "Years ago you listened and learned from your elders."
Does being 76 qualify as an 'elder,' Superham? Try to guess what I would say to you, Mighty God of Ham...IN-PERSON. I can't write it out here because the administration of e-ham would probably rightly toss me off. :-) Here's a hint, though...I EARNED my 'three-up-and-one-down' E-5 rank in the Army. :-)
Note: Normally I'd tell you off with a simple 'kiss my yes.' In these modern times of STDs spreading so eaily, I don't want you doing that, no matter how much you might enjoy it.
..............
StuporHAM aa8x: "If you are unhappy with amateur radio and how you are treated, I suggest you give it up and engage in a different hobby."
FIRST sensible thing you've written in here, Superfart. Yes, I've been giving that some serious thought. We 'newbies' are SO deficient in your High and Mighty Eyes, you wanting all that Worship and Adulation for all that 'Hard Work' YOU did and the rest of us 'NEVER DID.' Pfaugh! Nope, I could never go along with your concept, Your Supreme Righteous Highness. Call me a heretic if you wish. Call me all names. Call me a taxi. I might want to go somewhere else where there are normal humans.
..............
SuperFart AA8X: "In the mean time listen and learn from the old farts, as I’m sure you will learn a lot and have a good time doing it."
God FORBID *I* should ever give ANY instruction to Ye Olde Fahrts? I am SO unworthy in their presence and am "always wrong" while They are "always right." THEY SAY SO! Commandments from Mount Olympus by Gods of Ham. Those Gods of Ham control all Laws of Physics just from being Superfarts of Morse! Ham Radio is SO different from all other radio! Absolutely. The Gods of Ham have decreed it!
Yes, we 'newbies' SHALL enjoy whatever YOU say, right? Anything that YOU do is a MUST for everyone else, for you are a Ruler (who thinks he has 12 inches). Yes, according to Your Mightyness we 'newbies' KNOW NOTHING about amateur radio, right? Whatever you gods of ham say, is SO. Ptui. A loogie at your feet, mighty one.
..............
I'm not going to hold myself up as any paragon of HAM, NOT a model to follow. I'm not expecting anyone to walk in my shoes...so many of the Elderly would stumble immediately. I just got into amateur radio by licensing because I could. I actually thought it might be FUN. MY kind of fun. I'm not interested in 'contesting' and don't consider that 'sport.' I'm not interested in 'DX' or collecting wallpaper or have all those jazzy 'certificates' on any walls. I will do whatever I want to do. All you Gods of Ham can go excrete your particular kind of ham evangelism somewhere else, as far as I am concerned.
God forgive you...I sure can't.
[no regards whatsoever] AF6AY
ex-RA16408336, USA SigC, 1952-1960
Life Member, IEEE (a Professional Engineering Association)
af6ay@arrl.net (until March 31st)
LenAnderson@ieee.org
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KB0TXC posted on 12 Mar 09:
{AA8X wrote a bunch of snotty drivel, not repeated here}
KB0TXC: "This post demonstrates why many people are put off by the those amateur ops that act like old farts. This is the epitome of the old sour puss who is pissed off because admittance to "his" hobby and "his" airwaves no longer requires the rite of passage that involved the ability to copy the old and outmoded CW."
Joe, that creature went over to the dark side of the mental force. I've seen it SO many times in the last half-century. I gave him a reply which was also over the top...it was irrestable for me, one who enjoys popping over-inflated ego balloons. [there are so many of them, it is like receiving something protected by bubble wrap...:-)]
.................
KB0TXC: "I am sure that you had to walk six miles everyday to school in a driving blizzard up hill both ways <as well as> pass your precious code exam. So? What do you want from me? A medal or a chest to pin it on? Times change, OM. Times really do change, and one can be bitter about it or accept that times do change. It is not my Karma that is damaged by your bitterness."
I like to think my karma ran over his dogma. :-)
.................
KB0TXC: "The ladies aid society of Newington is still fuming over the FCC dismissing their beatings and protestations of removing the code requirement from the amateur radio license requirement. How charming. The OFs at the Newington knitting club were (and are still) pissed. Tsk tsk."
That's one of many things that made me give up any thought of renewing. End of March is bye-bye for my membership. They did NOTHING for me that I couldn't do as a non-member. As to the claim some had about "working from within" for change, that is impossible. I may be old but I'm not in THEIR old-boys clique.
..................
KB0TXC: "Life goes on, OM. Either go with it or be left behind. I am sure that there are plenty of CW nets out there to participate in where the no code "you newbies" will not bother you and your ilk with their modern, no-code ways."
I really wish he would stop. I'm not eager to go into a living museum of ancient radio skills. No matter. When his time comes, cremation has a high enough furnace temperature to melt any code key stuck in his cold, lifeless fist.
..................
KB0TXC: "Finally, the tone of your post makes me feel that you think that those "you newbies" should genuflect in front of you and grovel at your feet in admiration and worship of your skills and amateur radio prowess. How cute. You probably really feel that way, too. Sorry, I am not a "you newbie" as I have been a licensed amateur op for 14 years (first licensed in 1995). Though I do have respect for those that come before me and their skills, if they have the attitude that I *must* be in awe of their skills or whatever, then sorry, you be outta luck."
The best I could summon up was to hock a loogie at his feet. :-)
73 x 2, Len AF6AY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W0GTR posted some good points on 12 Mar 09:
"KE7OSV has raised a real issue here, new hams face challenges to their legitimacy."
Yeah, in a way...many olde-fahrts think we 'newbies' such bastards. :-)
...............
W0GTR: "MYTH: Elmers make new hams."
I have yet to find a REAL 'Elmer.' Oh, a LOT of them SAY they are, but beyond that, they go into generalities and never mention WHO they mentored unless they are family members. What is there that requires all that mentoring about operating a radio? Really?
I got interested in radio as a young teen-ager back in late 1946, wanting to know more about radio control of model aircraft that I built and flew (free flight back then). A few mentions of amateur radio were in Model Airplane News magazine, the membership magazine of the Academy of Model Aeronautics or AMA. One model club member had a 'ham license' but he would rather fly his models than teach some young squirt 'all about radio.' [I was coming up on age 14] Popular Science magazine 'taught me' some basics, amateur radio magazines just didn't appear on all magazine racks in my northern Illinois city of about 75K population then. When H&H Electronics opened in 1947, they had real 'radio parts' for sale, ones that customers could touch and feel. More important, the first of the WWII Surplus appeared on the market. I bought two Command Sets, learned enough to make AC power supplies for them, how to tune a transmitter, how to align a receiver, could load up an AC light bulb bright. Sold both 40m sets at a minor profit. By 1949 I'd become acquainted with a nice blond gal in my high school class, made her an 'instant-on' AM BC receiver out of surplus Handie-Talkie bartered parts. [it had quick-heating battery-filament tubes and there were no transistors affordable then] She is still my girlfriend, also my wife. :-)
....................
W0GTR: "MYTH: These new hams are just memorizing the test questions."
I've taken (and passed on first try) just two FCC top-of-the-line licenses. The first was a First 'Phone (Commercial) in 1956. I had just been released from the US Army and thought it a good thing to get a commercial license. The Army NEVER taught us civilian regulatory agency rules (the FCC never regulated the military) so I just memorized as much of the non-theory regulations direct from one loose-leaf notebook. There weren't any bound volumes in 1956 and my city didn't have a store carrying the Q&A books needed. Back then the 'Q&A' books were published for just about every civilian license. Also, the FCC regulations were not extensive back then. Today a copy of Title 47, Code of Federal Regulations, can be purchased for a modest sum from the US Government Printing Office...all FIVE volumes of it (Part 97 for amateur radio is in the 5th volume). I didn't need any theory on transmitters in that year, I'd already had three solid years of very hands-on repairing and operation of HF SSB and Class-C transmitters, exciters (for FSK TTY), test equipment, and so forth. Had to draw and explain two schematics at the FCC Field Office in Chicago, 90 miles away. Took the train both ways (no car yet) and never took off my shoes...couldn't walk barefoot through the snow uphill both ways to take that test (it was a clear day, no snow).
The second test was the audacious 'Extra out of the box' test that happened almost on the 51st anniversary of my taking the First 'Phone. Didn't walk barefoot through snow for that one, either, drove our paid-for-with-cash 2005 Chevvy Malibu a whole mile to the amateur test site at a former firehouse on the 25th of February, 2007. After 54 years of working as a Pro in the electronics industry I really didn't think I NEEDED any 'lifelong education' enough to pass a test. But, nobody's fool, I had downloaded the entire Question Pools from www.ncvec.org and printed them out, reviewed all of them, especially the non-theory regulations. Bear in mind that I'd also worked in civil aviation radio so I'd kept current in that radio service Part, Public Land Mobile Radio Service had been worked at, also Broadcasting Radio (now lumped under 'Media' or whatever), plus a whole heap of Military Specifications whose paper tonnage FAR exceeds the whole of Title 47. Having to WORK WITH all that radio stuff makes the file storage in the brain rather full and a review NEEDS to be done just to make sure the file-retrieval is on-subject. No sweat.
On "memorizing" AS IF it is a bad thing: I think that's nonsense. First of all, extremely few current radio amateur hobbyists are EVER going to get into space...unless one has millions of bucks such as Richard Garriott's son did (his own fortune came from some kind of computer software sales or whatever). NASA has the LOCK on space travel. NASA has some astronauts get Technician licenses as part of their general Public Relations effort, NASA's PR, very NOT 'for ham radio.' FCC amateur regulations will change from time to time and some licensed amateurs change their class from time to time, but one does NOT need a massive mental effort to learn and remember things like operating frequencies, where which class can play, and with so and so much power. A little card with jotted notes can suffice for any class license. Unless one changes antennas every few weeks, one doesn't need the 'RF Safety' regulations in wetware either, just refer to the printed rules WHEN it is needed. I've had a valid driver's license since 1950 but haven't stuffed my wetware full of two states' DMV driving regulations; I just review those when periodic motor vehicle tests come up. No problem. The last time I had a driving (actually a parking ticket) infraction was back in 1971, specifically in Camden, NJ, back in 1971.
Yeah, I don't think it is BAD to memorize regulations to pass ANY test. Each time I get an annual physical blood test, I study very hard to pass it. Always have. :-)
.................
W0GTR: "MYTH: New hams have no experimenting skills."
I think that ought to change to 'Gaseous olde-fahrts have no experimenting skills.' That 160-year-old morse code mode hasn't changed in all that time...except radio substituting for wires by 1896. Really 'needs' experimentation?!?
Myself, I've spent all but three of the last 49 years in Design Engineering or Research and Development projects in industry. Not all amateurs are that fortunate and I understand that but there is NO WAY I will accept KIT ASSEMBLY as 'teaching anything' other than soldering properly or using common hand tools. ESPECIALLY in this day and age when vacuum tubes are so rare they are found only in microwave ovens (magnetrons) and specialty scientific instruments (optical photomultipliers, NODs or Night Observation Devices). I've worked with both of those plus a lot of different vacuum tubes long ago.
...............
W0GTR: "MYTH: Taking code out of the test "dumbed it down.""
AGREE on the MYTH! My thought was that ELIMINATING the code test just removed an archaic BARRIER to a HOBBY radio activity. In the USA it was the LAST radio service that required licensing via code testing to operate transmitters below 30 MHz. CB radio service will be 51 years old soon and was always (as it is known now) on a small sliver of frequencies around 27 MHz. The USA military hasn't required morse code cognition to operate (anywhere it damn well pleases in times of crisis) for over two decades. The ONLY place it IS used is in the M.I., Military Intelligence services and then only for receiving/intercepting signals from the 'other side.' It is passive ELINT.
I think it was so unfortunate that the gaseous olde-fahrts had to STOP PROGRESS and the barrier was removed so LATE. I blame the old fools at the ARRL for halting progress through all their lobbying to keep USA amateur radio as archaic as possible.
.................
W0GTR: "SPEAKING FOR MYSELF: I once heard someone say, "yeah, these new hams can't fix anything, because they don't have the diagnostic skill." Now, I tremendously respect those among us who can fix transceivers... but I don't awe them. WHEN YOU CAN WRITE SOFTWARE IN JAVA, THEN I WILL AWE YOU!!!"
Hee hee hee hee... HAY! How about self-teaching oneself FORTRAN? [such as from Dan McCracken's excellent book with many examples in FORTRAN IV as I used in 1971] Never had any 'punched cards' when I contributed six programs to RCA Corporate central engineering computer library by 1975. But, in computer circles FORTRAN is now so passe'. :-(
...............
W0GTR: "Maybe all those people who moan about the test being too easy, would be happy if there was a section testing LONG-OVERDUE computer competencies."
Those olde-fahrt dingdongs couldn't understand (or write) a simple "Hello World" program of six lines of code in any computer language. Don't expect too much of them. Leastways, they will all jump on you for saying what you did, shouting "IT AIN'T RADIO!" :-) [right...to them Software Defined Radio is a myth)
...............
W0GTR: "So come on OM, try to remember when you were new. It was a different world then. Newbies can't live up to the standards of the past."
Very very FEW gaseous olde-fahrts can live up to the standard of the PRESENT. I'm not going to retrograde to their standards of the past. Not even if someone actually invents a working time machine. Did H. G. Wells have a call? :-)
Oh, maybe I don't show enough 'courtesy' to the olde-fahrts? They sure haven't shown me much 'courtesy.' It is tailor-made: "they rip what they sew."
73, Len AF6AY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KB0TXC on March 12, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
The old bitter sourpuss N4TTS blathered while his dentures slipped:
Joe, I've seen better flames on a wet match...etc ad nauseam...
KB0TXC (the laughing at the OLD FART) responds:
Trust me you OLD CONSTIPATED FART, you have absolutely no bearing on me or my life or anything else that is important in this world. Go play with your key or something... No one cares about you or your 'status' or your 20WPM extra or anything else about you. You have been left behind the times, dear.
YOU ARE JUST A BITTER OLD FART AND I LAUGH AT YOU AS DO MANY OTHERS!
I have no respect for you or anything you say, and I sure as hell hope that you never do respond to me on the air, because I will simply turn the big knob and ignore you as well.
As far as intelligence is concerned, I doubt that you come close to the IQ of my cat, let alone me, pal.
As I said pops, go take a Viagra. As nasty as you are, you obviously need it.
KB0TXC
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by QRZDXR2 on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W4HIJ on March 10, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
QRZDXR2 wrote:
And your point being...
Welcome to ham radio...quit whining
And here we have the perfect example of a bitter old diseased narrow minded fool!
Actually I don't know how old this gent( and I use the term loosely) is but he's exactly the type we are talking about here. How nice of him to come here so we would have an example of just the attitude the original poster was talking about.
Don't ya'll get it? Everything that he says is designed to try and incite and provoke and get under your skin. He enjoys it when you pay attention to him and you let him know something he said bothers you.
I'm sure he's enjoying being singled out right now even though it's for ridicule.
The best thing we can do is IGNORE these idiots.
Their bitterness and negativity will eventually be the death of them.
73,
Michael
------------------------------------------------
No Michael more to the point your hurt and you really know what I said was true. You Just can't stand the truth can you. Face it your a newbie and you got your third leg in a knott because you really can't say much other than what the parrot has already.
I feel sorry for you michael your demented idea of reality is exactly what other say. If they are not to your liking your spiteful and derogatory towards them.
Again YOU can't stand the truth... so quit whining and grow up. Telling someone else what they are or arn't is like really showing your ego off. You jump in here dump your load and then think others are going to respect you... don't think so. Your sicker mentally than the rest of the pack. Saddly your probably sitting at home in your T shirt and underware (which havn't been washed for 2 weeks now. Radio set up on a carboard table, chair from the kitchen which has old dirty pots and pans stacked up in the sink and burnt stuff on the stove from the last time you open a fresh can of dog food. Ahh your stroking your dog.. your only friend.. while Sitting in front of the 2 meter listening to the latest bob and jerry show. Jumping in now and again between drags on the cig. to harrass Jerry with cutting comments. what fun... Safe you think not using your ID. Typical CB person that came to ham radio with a full ashtray of cig butts, empty bottle of JW and beer cans all over the room stacked on piles of cloths and junk which hasn't seen a cleaning in what...4 years now. Clean up your act dude before you go trying to smear someone else. Oh gee we forgot to mention you live in a poor run down trailer park too. Isn't the're a word for people like you?
Ahhh yes the joy of ham radio brings out the images of splender and the social elete's
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KB0TXC writes: "Then there is Jim N2EY who has been an amateur radio operator for years and years."
42 years come October 12 of this year.
KB0TXC: "He probably knows the insides of the old hollowstate gear that I love so much better than most amateur ops (definitely including me) left today do."
Possibly; there's a lot to know, old or new. But I'm not limited to hollow-state stuff.
KB0TXC: "I have a good feeling that Jim knows the FCC rules and regs better than some at the ARRL (That I belong to and lovingly refer to as the Newington knitting club) do as well as knowing and practicing the best of the amateur operating procedures."
TNX
KB0TXC: "However, he disagrees with me on several issues, specifically labor and political issues. That is OK too. Again, I might not agree, but I really respect his knowledge, his ability and his willingness to intelligently communicate with me."
The feeling is mutual, Joe.
KB0TXC: "He is also a 20+ WPM CW operator, but he has never used that as a means belittle me as I am a no-code operator."
No-code *test* operator.
KB0TXC: "He is not a CW 'old fart' by any stretch."
TNX AGN!
A couple of points:
1) It's not just the code test. For the past 30 years or so, FCC has been reducing the written test requirements too. Some folks look at the current tests and compare them to the tests and test methods of 40-50+ years ago for the same license and think "that's easy!" And maybe they are "easier", from the point of view of somebody who's been a ham for decades.
Looking at both the current exams and the study guides of old times, one big difference I note is that the old exams focused on a few subjects in depth, while the current exams cover a lot more subjects but not in much depth at all. For example, the old exams had almost nothing about receivers or antennas, but a lot about power supplies, oscillators, eliminating spurious emissions from transmitters, and various techniques of staying in the band.
2) With rare exceptions, it's not the newcomers who pushed for changes to the tests and test methods; it's the FCC. And they did it to save money. Blame *them*!
3) In any activity that has so much diversity, there will be disagreements and competition for scarce resources. But we really are all in this together, and if we don't act like it, we'll all be worse off.
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
AF6AY writes: "I have yet to find a REAL 'Elmer.'"
Well, Len, considering how you behave towards anyone who disagrees with you about anything, that's not surprising.
AF6AY: "What is there that requires all that mentoring about operating a radio? Really?"
Quite a bit, really. There are also things like how to set up a station, how to interpret what's heard on the air, how to turn generalities into specifics.
Elmering takes many forms, too. A posting to a website or reflector that helps someone is as much Elmering as being there in person.
AF6AY: "I've taken (and passed on first try) just two FCC top-of-the-line licenses. The first was a First 'Phone (Commercial) in 1956. I had just been released from the US Army and thought it a good thing to get a commercial license. The Army NEVER taught us civilian regulatory agency rules"
But they did teach you a lot of radio and electronics theory and practice.
AF6AY: "The second test was the audacious 'Extra out of the box' test"
Which you had said you were going for more than seven years earlier (Jan 19, 2000, to be exact).
AF6AY: "NASA has the LOCK on space travel."
The Russians might dispute that...
AF6AY: "NASA has some astronauts get Technician licenses as part of their general Public Relations effort, NASA's PR, very NOT 'for ham radio.'"
Sure it's for ham radio.
AF6AY: "I think that ought to change to 'Gaseous olde-fahrts have no experimenting skills.' That 160-year-old morse code mode hasn't changed in all that time...except radio substituting for wires by 1896. Really 'needs' experimentation?!? "
Actually, the code used on radio isn't the code used on wires. And the experimentation is in what can be done with Morse Code on radio.
AF6AY: "there is NO WAY I will accept KIT ASSEMBLY as 'teaching anything' other than soldering properly or using common hand tools."
Well, you're just wrong about that, Len.
AF6AY: "ELIMINATING the code test just removed an archaic BARRIER to a HOBBY radio activity."
Yet when that alleged BARRIER was removed, we didn't see lots more new hams. So it really wasn't much of a BARRIER at all.
AF6AY: "In the USA it was the LAST radio service that required licensing via code testing to operate transmitters below 30 MHz."
So what? Amateurs still use Morse Code.
AF6AY: "CB radio service will be 51 years old soon and was always (as it is known now) on a small sliver of frequencies around 27 MHz."
You've forgotten UHF cb, begun in 1948, which has been reborn as FRS/GMRS.
Do you think 27 MHz cb is a good example for amateur radio to follow?
AF6AY: "Very very FEW gaseous olde-fahrts can live up to the standard of the PRESENT."
How do you know, Len?
AF6AY: "Oh, maybe I don't show enough 'courtesy' to the olde-fahrts? They sure haven't shown me much 'courtesy.'"
Considering how you behave online, why should anyone?
73 de Jim, N2EY
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W3KFQ on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
A message to all those who believe that all new licencees are somehow not up to the mark....
There are many operators like myself, who took thier code tests years ago..(the 60's)..and did not renew thier licence, or life changes forced them into new directions, many things happen to all of us over the years.
I've said this before, and will repeat it here, if your so concerned..(both sides of this arguement) then do your code test over, unofficially,and pass it at 15 or 20 wpm! Get it notorized.
Same with the General or extra class test, do the old one, pass it, and with your new licence..get on with your life.
I had the experience of being a novice way back when, and learned a lot from it. Some of us have paid our dues, and should help those less fortunate who can't seem to get a litle help from the brotherhood.
Robert
W3KFQ
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by W3WN on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Rick N6NKN said:
I must say. eHam does seem to bring out the best in people. LOL
-------------------
Nah. If you REALLY want to view the cream of the crop, look over some of the forums on QRZ.COM; they make this stuff look pretty tame.
Like this ham from the 6th call area (not you!) who declared a ham from the 3rd call area a lid, because a net in the 6th call area allegedly got QRM'd during a major contest... by a contester in the 6th call area. [But then, he's a Marine, or so he says; so, he doesn't have to apologize when he makes a mistake, because that would have to acknowledge that he made a mistake, and we all know that the Marines never make mistakes].
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KC2EXW on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
The writer isn't too far off base. I have encountered a number of senior citizens, former young guns themselves that are part of a generation that are less than accepting to change within the hobby and feel the bands are the exclusive right of anyone licensed before 1970 anyone else can stuff it and gosh for bid you're a no code licensee I sure do feel bad for you guys! This is unfortunate because it exists on every level of the hobby. I have seen it at the club level and conventions too. This is too bad. Instead of promoting membership, encouraging skill development and furthering the hobby along there are indeed a few bad apples that ruin it for everyone. Exclusivity breeds contempt and not usually by fellow hams more often than not by government agencies that want to take back bands and reallocate them for commmercial use. Maybe its already too late. Too many elmers sitting on their butts pining for the good old days and too few new hams to make much of a difference.
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by NO6L on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Just a thought, some of these comments are longer than the original article. I don't know about others, but I don't bother reading them. If they were more coherent it wouldn't be so bad. But with quotes three levels deep, improper sentence structure and punctuation and bad spelling I get a headache form it. After all that, I loose any concept as to what is attempted to be communicated.
Please, STOP.
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by NO6L on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Just a thought, some of these comments are longer than the original article. I don't know about others, but I don't bother reading them. If they were more coherent it wouldn't be so bad. But with quotes three levels deep, improper sentence structure and punctuation and bad spelling I get a headache form it. After all that, I loose any concept as to what is attempted to be communicated.
Please, STOP.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by KC0SHZ on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
I used to get bugged when people did that to me. Then I began to notice that the Hams that did it to me were not well liked themselves and have snobbed their way into a corner they can't get out of.
Many of them are old and beat down, they may have spent $10K on their radio station over the years, but they could sell it all on Ebay for about $800 (if they could get a taker for that antenna tower that is filling their back yard.)
I started to realize that the way around some of these jerks was to find some people who were good folks and hang with them to the exclusion of the jerks. This makes me happier, gives me access to the Elmers that I need, and by and large, life works better.
So recognize that many of these jokers are pitiable and take their comments for what they are, wind on the buffalo grass.
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N6BIZ on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
welcome to ham radio just wait till the sun starts making some spots youll talk to europe in the morning and the pacific in the evening ...on 10 mtrs in a car with a stick for an antenna i have been a ham since '63 and love it more as the years pass ...and dont concern youself with some arrogant adam henrys on the bands have fun om
gary n6biz las vegas nv for now
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by TIMEWILLTELL on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Oh this keeps getting better.
Those of us who have paid our dues..................
Listen fellow licensed ham operators. Your license is no better than someone who got theirs two minutes ago, period.
And as for paying their dues, there are no dues, its a hobby and there is no fee..........ha.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by TIMEWILLTELL on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
And as far as a license goes, no one should be able to get one until they get the corn cobb out of their port hole.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by TIMEWILLTELL on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Wow, some of these are long..........I don't read those either, get to the point guys.
The times are ah changin.........change with them or for crying out loud go to the nursing home.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by TIMEWILLTELL on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
You know what I like.......when people copy and paste entire post and then post twice as much telling the person how wrong they are.
Someone please copy and paste me and tell me my spelling is wrong.............................argh.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by TIMEWILLTELL on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
Oh let me try.............
I shot the first shot at the civil war, have wooden teeth, walked up hill 20 miles to and from school, had to kill my supper with a wire hanger.....that I made myself....... raised all 20 of my younger brothers and sisters, lived in a shoe, have wrinkles in my wrinkles, have to make my own depends out of klenex and I am so, so much more deserving of everything in life, because I am, thats why, and I am going to use this forum to tell everyone of my accomplishments and some fake ones even........me me me me me and me.
This is like laugh in, I swear...........jackasses, and you know who you are.
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
WA4KGM lectured some 'friendly' advice on 12 Mar 09:
"I'm 63, with some "back-in-the-day" experience as a radio/radar repair tech. After a 30+ year absence I recently got into ham radio as an "extra-out-of-the-box." That's much worse than being merely a "new ham." Have I taken flack over that? Absolutely, but never of the sort that caused me to consider quitting ham radio."
I've taken flack much worse just for NOT having expressed either a passion for amateur radio and CERTAINLY for NO love of morse. Then after getting my license (without asking any of the 'Four Morsemen of the Apocalypse' on rec.radio.amateur.policy), they made it sound like an evil character flaw that "I didn't do it sooner." Ptui.
..............
WA4KGM: "Who better to teach me than those who have already been there, done that?"
Who better to keep USA amateur radio in perpetual retrograde?
..............
WA4KGM: "After all (a little radio humor here), many of the "older hams" had to walk 25 miles in a blinding blizzard (uphill both ways) and sit for their exams before unsmiling, unblinking "suits" from the FCC, not friendly, smiling VEs. No coffee, no sticky buns, no head calls, no cell phones, no calculators, no nothing, save their desire for a ticket."
I took and passed my First Class Radiotelephone (Commercial) license doing all of the above in early 1956 at an FCC Field Office 90 miles away by train. No COLEMs then, no VEC, no such thing as a pocket calculator. Do you want me to feel sorry or something? Maybe worship some false idol of morse?
..............
WA4KGM: "They had to beat out code, know enough about radio to draw and explain various electronic circuits, and just generally know a heck of a lot more about this hobby than we newbies. It's worth mentioning that many of those "Older Hams" built their own equipment back then, and some still do, to this day."
They were Gods of Radio as they imply now. I'll ask again, do you want me to feel sorry for one camp or the other? Poor old guys, never HAD to operate or take care of 36 HF transmitters running 1 to 15 KW RF output, then go out off-shift and practice the fine art of killing people. We HAD to do that. It was MY start.
..............
WA4KGM: "Contrast that, if you will, with we newbies."
Kid (you are 11 years my junior), I will never accept being a 'newbie' or a 'know-nothing' with the snarly depreciating condescending emotional baggage attached to that name. I don't give one dingy damn if that upsets some olde-fahrt HOBBYISTS in radio. I've never been considerd that as a Professional for the last half century.
...............
WA4KGM: "Memorize the question pools, pass the exams (no code, no real electronics knowledge), then jump on the net and buy the latest and greatest equipment available. Voila! Instant ham radio operator extraordinaire, at a K and a half. No wonder they're a bit pissed."
WHO is upset? The olde-fahrts? Too honking bad for them.
...............
WA4KGM: "You said "I am disturbed at the less than enthusatic welcome that I have received from many of the 'Older Hams'" You were expecting, perhaps, a brass band? The "Older Hams," as you describe them, require that you prove yourself as an operator, nothing more, or less. That, my ham friend, is on you..."
Oh, the LAW says I or any other newcomer MUST "prove yourself as an operator?" NO, it does NOT. The only camp that tries that is the OLDE-FAHRTS who insist on keeping the standards and practices of the 1930s into this new millennium. A bunch of radio HOBBYISTS trying vainly to be Professional Amateurs, a Living Museum of Ancient Radio skills.
................
WA4KGM: "There's a lot to be learned from the crusty old curmudgeons."
Yes, there is...DON'T BE LIKE THEM! I've seen more of those than you have, kid. I pray to God I will never get that bad.
................
WA4KGM: "I find it interesting that after only a year and a half you have "evaluated" ham radio and solicited criticism of a hobby that has been around for quite some time, before yours or mine, and will hopefully outlive us both."
Kid, 'radio' as a communications medium has only been around about 112 1/2 years. Amateur radio, as defined by the ITU, is a de facto HOBBY radio activity. Don't give us this 'seniority' paternalistic LECTURE crap. Is Terry Deuel, a 'newbie' who don' know nuttin? He is about 52. He is a human male who has been around this Earth for a while.
................
WA4KGM: "Exhibit good operating practice, focus on learning how to use your equipment effectively, how and why it works, and find your niche."
In other words, become PROFESSIONAL Amateurs?
................
WA4KGM: "If you don't like the "old hams," avoid them. You can even go digital, and avoid CW and/or phone."
How very condescending of you. I've long since used modes and modulations NOT PERMITTED in USA amateur radio. But, of course, that wasn't what the olde-fahrts called "real radio," the kind of the 1930s (now coming up on 70 years ago). For what it is worth, kid, I've already used 'data' and 'digital' and even DESIGNED systems that did that. But NOT in USA amateur radio because so very little of that is permitted by law.
Kid, I have some 'disposable cash' that I WORKED for. IN radio, professional radio. Are you going to INSIST that I 'build my own equipment' or something because some crybaby kids who are at least 10 years younger than I insist must be done to 'prove something to the ham community?!? BS. I bought a whole HF through 2m station, two antennas, with MY budget. I could afford it five years ago. So what if that gets some 'poor' hams all worked up? This country isn't a socialist state where everyone gets the 'same according to their needs.' NOBODY, repeat NOBODY *gave* me any money in my life. I resent the hell out of all the olde-fahrtism present that says WE haven't earned anything.
.................
WA4KGM: "The "older hams" are nothing more, or less, than a national treasure."
Kid, then start treating us 'treasures' better. I am a LEGAL licensed Amateur Extra USA radio operator. The only time I've been a Real ham is when I was in an improv comedy troupe (for kicks) in a cabaret show. The only 'radio' involved was a wireless microphone. I've never had to use morse code in any of my past 56 years as a Pro IN radio of any kind and don't intend to start now. If that upsets your treasure-hunting 'necessity' then go write the FCC Enforcement Bureau and complain. You can write the ARRL, too, but it won't matter to me...I'm not renewing my mambership beyond the end of March 2009.
.................
WA4KGM: "Personality and political issues aside, if this hobby is not for you, then begone."
You first, kid..."women and children first." Remember, you are 11 years younger than me. :-)
.................
WA4KGM: "All said and done, welcome to ham radio."
Wow, with 'ham friends' like that, who needs enemies? USA amateur radio has its very own 'denied territory.'
AF6AY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
W3KFQ proposes the Impossible Dream on 13 Mar 09:
"I've said this before, and will repeat it here, if your so concerned..(both sides of this arguement) then do your code test over, unofficially,and pass it at 15 or 20 wpm! Get it notorized."
What is the purpose OR the legality of that?
"Same with the General or extra class test, do the old one, pass it, and with your new licence..get on with your life."
WHO has those 'old tests?' They won't apply to any present license under legitimate law.
WHY is there this 'need' to take morse code tests? I don't see it as valid law. The FCC decided that by the 19 December 2006 release of Report & Order 06-178.
If you insist on keeping the old regulations ad infinitum, then I would suggest to you to invent (or help invent) a Time Machine. With one of those (and a reprieve of principles of causality) all the olde-tymers can go back to olden days and be content with amateur radio circa pre-1941.
Have a nice trip...
73, Len AF6AY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KB0TXC wrote on March 12, 2009:
"Len AF6AY (Hope that I got that right) is an old time electronic comms guy from the military during a time when there were no satellites, no digital error checking, when reception depended upon how well one could tune a rack mounted (actually a huge number of rack mounted) tube receivers, when things such as understanding ionospheric propagation had to be as familiar as the back of your hand, when transmission powers could instantly kill you yet you had to work on the transmitters 'hot' sometimes...the list is endless."
Let me clarify a few points there, Joe. In the worldwide net of US Army radio stations of the 1940s through the 1960s, Net Control officers from the Chief Signal Officer on down determined the frequencies in use, not the enlisted grunts despite having Master Sergeant ratings as 'lifers.' None of us enlisted types 'had to know propagation like the back of our hand.' We HAD to know how to QSY NOW, not a few minutes later, at our leisure. Keeping a circuit 'UP' (running, ready for any message relay) was prime. It makes sense from a large net statndpoint that had the capability of reconfiguring its network structure at any time required one central authority on frequencies. By 1948 the general principles and behavior of the ionosphere was known well enough to plan HF frequency use well ahead of time.
Consider that each major radio circuit in the Army net had the capability for two voice channels and eight TTY channels in commeercial SSB format. That means 480 characters per second throughput just on teleprinter. Four radio circuits at ADA used time-division multiplexing to carry 4 TTY channels simultaneously. That was 240 characters per second throughput using FSK at 850 Hz 'spread' (separation of Mark and Space). When a third-largest station in the worldwide net carried 250K messages per MONTH, it was our responsibility to keep ALL circuits as open as possible. WAR (Washington Army Radio) at Fort Detrick, MD, had a throughput of about a million messages per month...but they were also the central hub of Army communications.
That was back at the beginning 1950s and Army radio was rockbound in frequency. There were no synthesizers of any kind in-use commercially or in the military for transmitters. There was no such thing as 'transistorized' anything in heavy-duty communications until towards the end of the 1950s, after my active duty time.
The Receiver Site at Camp Owada (NNW of Tokyo) did it slightly differently. It was shared with the USAF, manned by both USA and USAF personnel on a cooperative basis. Transmitters Site was Army-only. Receivers had the option of using manually-tuned, stable (mostly Collins equipment) receivers along with antenna multicouplers to allow space-diversity reception of just about every incoming radio circuit. Multicouplers allowed two rhombics to be used by up to eight receivers, pairs having automatic majority-vote selection. In addition, a typical SSB converter could automatically select which tone pairs of TTY would be fully converted as current loops outgoing to the torn-tape relay control. Receivers by themselves were the immediate predecessor of the R-390 (R-388?) although the R-390s were slowly being delivered for use at ADA's Receiver Site in 1955. I was never assigned to Receivers, just the old and new Transmitter Sites, but did visit them for other purposes from time to time. One part of Receivers was Frequency Standards. 'Standards' had two men on each shift and used a late-1940s General Radio Frequency Standard to check EACH and every radio transmitter frequency after any Transmitter QSY order. ADA Control, Transmitters, and Standards were all on the same TTY Order Wire and all orders, responses, or data was carried simultaneously at all three places.
On any Control command via TTY to QSY, Transmitters would have three personnel immediately doing the QSY. One would fetch the Exciter quartz crystal from the six-foot high floor standing warming cabinet and plug that into the back of the FSK Exciter; that would start the chain of events. Another guy would be presetting the transmitter itself to already-determined control settings, waiting for the exciter to supply the frequency. Once the exciter was Up, the usual peak-and-dip was done to put RF out the antenna. Meanwhile, 'Standards' 30 miles away would be setting up the exact Mark frequency on their GR Frequency Standard and waiting for the carrier to come on. Standards' receiver audio was looped back to Transmitters. Once the transmitter was trimmed, the first guy would be back around to the front of the Exciter racks and would set Mark frequency by zero-beat, no TTY keying yet. The third guy, usually the Trick Chief, would be at the Order Wire, monitoring the other two. When the first one had the Mark zeroed-in, he would call out "Fox Test" and the Trick Chief would request that from Control. Control responded by patching in the automatic 'quick brown fox' sentence and ID (there were three fox-test generators at ADA in the Carrier room). That keying would enable setting the Space frequency using amplified audio sent by Standards. ADA Transmitters had a tuning-fork 850 cycle oscillator so that we would do an audio heterodyne to set the 'spread' (difference between Mark and Space). Note: All spreads were 850 Hz then, by order; receiving convertes were optimized for that. When we thought that setting was good, we gave Standards a go-ahead to check. They would and tell us any deviation from exact frequency over the Order-Wire. Control would be monitoring all that and, if acceptible, would release the radio circuit from QSY standby to traffic from the huge torn-tape relay room. Average QSY at the time was about 2 minutes and all three Sites had written confirmation of the whole thing. Very rarely would we need 3 minutes. Control had their own Order-Wires to the circuit other end (for SSB, both voice and TTY) so they could check everything. It was interesting to pick up a telephone handset at Control and be instantly talking to a counterpart in San Francisco, Honolulu, or Seattle from Tokyo; no dialing, just talk.
SSB transmitters also used quartz crystal control but the Western Electric LD-T2s were also servo tuned to any of 10 preset frequencies. 30 second QSYs there, but Standards checked their pilot carrier frequencies and reported that on the Order-Wire. A SSB QSY was completed in a minute, again all communications identical and written at three different locations. Note: All frequencies were called out by NAMES, not by number. That was to avoid possible number interchange, never for secrecy. Korea-bound transmit frequencies were given beer names. :-) Each 8-hour shift would do 6 to 14 QSYs depending on propagation conditions, at least 30 transmitters Up at any one time (usually 34 out of the 36).
Fast? No. Compared to 1 Hz resolution of built-in synthesizers of today it seems slow. But it was fast enough by 1950 standards involving reliable 24/7 operation at fixed locations and paths.
Main AC primary power demand meter at the old site stood at areound 350 KWe. That meant that at least 150 KW of RF was floating Out There. It would not have been acceptible under modern so-called 'standards of health in radiation' but there was no outcry from the medical community at the time, either. The biggest headache was the variability of Japanese commercial electric power. It might suddenly disappear or drop from 50 cycles to 47. We had all necessary diesel-electric sets to supply AC power but Standards HAD to check every transmit frequency all over again on a power outage and report that on the Order Wire while we had to check every transmitter for proper tuning. The new Transmitter Site (started operating 1954) was designed for self-contained AC primary power using 2-on, 2-standby 300 KWe motor-generator sets in their own building. Each MG set used 16-cylinder marine diesels so it was noisy in that place 24/7. :-)
No, NONE of such things apply DIRECTLY to amateur radio operation. It is just an example of what I experienced BEGINNING in HF communications as a Professional (we did get paid...I remember $154 a month as an E-5 with overseas allowance. In 1954 that wasn't bad since we also had comforts of 3 hots and a cot. Sutecki, ne? :-)
...................
KB0TXC: "I admire that and respect that of him. Yet Len disagrees with my premise that name of our space agency NASA really stands for Never A Straight Answer, and that there have been..."
Well, I'm not caring about any 'Area 51' stories, either. I've HAD to visit Nellis AFB but have never seen an alien being there...not even a MARS man. <shrug>
There was a running gag in the electronics industry that the venerable 'H-P' logo stood for "Highest Price" but that would be a disservice to their accuracy and reliability. Bill and Dave done good in the electronics industry. Palo Alto wasn't Benton Harbor.
.................
KB0TXC: "No, I usually react to those posts with a few comments, but N4TTS really is an old, bitter sourpuss whose spirit has the potential to drive off new and prospective amateur radio operators."
Those of us who are called good-for-nothing 'newbies' and 'know-nothings' are all supposed to be silent and worshipful while these 'elderly' Hero Hams trod all over us? Not I, senor. That sort of petty attitude might be fine for their concept of Professional Amateurs but I see it as just childlike amateur professionalism more suited to junior high school politics of the schoolyard. It's been a long time for me since high school and I get less and less interested in this so-called hobby ruled by a bunch of dysfunctional self-proclaimed 'leaders' trying to retrograde USA amateur radio as much as possible with outdated requirements for entry. This activity is a HOBBY. It isn't life itself. To rational beings.
73, Len AF6AY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AF6AY on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
KC2EXW posted on 13 Mar 09:
"The writer isn't too far off base. I have encountered a number of senior citizens, former young guns themselves that are part of a generation that are less than accepting to change within the hobby and feel the bands are the exclusive right of anyone licensed before 1970 anyone else can stuff it and gosh for bid you're a no code licensee I sure do feel bad for you guys!"
No need to feel sorry for some of us no-code-test licensees. I've lived long enough to encounter too many aging, mentally-retrograde white males for my liking. I pray more often that I NOT ever get like they are. It is a disgusting sight to me. Coming from an electronics industry that IS progressive, I daresay those old fogies couldn't hack it in the industry with new ideas about anything.
KC2EXW: "This is unfortunate because it exists on every level of the hobby. I have seen it at the club level and conventions too. This is too bad. Instead of promoting membership, encouraging skill development and furthering the hobby along there are indeed a few bad apples that ruin it for everyone."
Yes, but the Club is usually content with itself and feels comfortable doing the same thing year after year, members giving each other high-fives for 'accomplishment for the good of ham radio.' ???
KC2EXW: "Exclusivity breeds contempt and not usually by fellow hams more often than not by government agencies that want to take back bands and reallocate them for commmercial use. Maybe its already too late."
The Bands most talked about on forums exist in the HF spectrum. For all intents and purposes the users of HF in other radio services are already fixed, including broadcasting. There doesn't appear to be any desire by any other radio services to covet HF or grab bandspace. One can check out the last five years of releases at the FCC website (including the International Bureau) and see that. I just don't see any inkling that the FCC would want to change USA allocations on HF, not even to increase CB (which needs expansion for truckers).
The main action on spectrum reassignment is happening ABOVE 30 MHz. Much of that has already happened. Witness the channel assignments for DTV, great heaping gobs of bandspace to be eliminated as part of the DTV switchover in June this year. There have been bids already for the '700 MHz' band and that appears locked-in. Did the ARRL petition for any part of the soon-to-be-vacant TV space? I don't see any.
It really doesn't matter to these olde-tymers who never venture up above 30 MHz. They aren't familiar with it, don't know how to handle it, and don't care about it. Oh, they might 'care' but only as a vehicle to vent personal frustrations on, such as trash-talking any party in power about "taking away 'our' precious bands." Ineffectual gabble that.
Similarly, the olde-tymers aren't rushing out to grab anything below MF. All they've gotten below the AM BC band is an "experimental permit" just above 500 KHz. So, is the EM region around 500 KHz 'experimental' after being used for maritime distress and safety from 1914 to 1993? I really don't think so. But...the ARRL can crow each morning at sunrise, announcing that THEY obtained this precious 'permit' for the 'experimenters' (aging amateurs who have yet to come up with anything new there). Sometimes I get the implication that the ARRL will want to proclaim that THEY invented radio... :-)
73, Len AF6AY
|
| |
|
RE: Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by N2EY on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
TIMEWILLTELL writes: "I shot the first shot at the civil war, have wooden teeth, walked up hill 20 miles to and from school, had to kill my supper with a wire hanger.....that I made myself....... raised all 20 of my younger brothers and sisters, lived in a shoe, have wrinkles in my wrinkles, have to make my own depends out of klenex"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYtYBI6eZ3E
|
| |
|
Aren't We All In This Together?
|
|
|
by AB9PM on March 13, 2009
|
Mail this to a friend!
|
|
Yes I agree with you. I am a no code extra. I took all my exams in a single day, since other hams couldn't do it, I met with resistance right away at the testing site. Hams have been very discourteous to me also. You have to put up a 200 foot tower with 1.5 k | |
