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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?

Paul Veal (N0AH) on April 16, 2009
View comments about this article!

40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?
By Paul Veal, N0AH

Last night near sunset, I was listening to a UA station near Moscow working a station in Ohio. To hear voices on 40M in a DX conversation like neighbors, not working split, was amazing. Then, just as the QSO was ending, another station in Michigan cranked up his radio and began calling CQ CQ on the AM band...help me. He was wiping out 10KHz. All of these years we have waited for this band that can be so amazing to be free of BCS, our new spectrum is again polluted by us. And this guy was using an automated CQ machine as he bragged about it with a guy in a neighboring state.

As a community, we just can’t seem to get it right. We let 14.275MHz go on and on and now this pristine allocation on 40M SSB for true DX gray-line to gray-line is going to be junked for AM’ers using their modified CB gear. Trust me, in this case, this Ham was clueless.

Once again, with the lack of any effort to educate and regulate, we prove to be our worst enemies. I have retuned my antennas to be centered at 7.140MHz but I didn’t go much higher -- 40 SSB has always been such a fight but when the stars line up, this could be the only band one needs to work 40 zones on a contest weekend or make DXCC with a wire in a week. It just needs respect. Want to talk across state lines? Try 7.290MHz etc...just my opinion. I guess we all could talk AM anywhere we want and just use 40 meters for whatever/. Can the ARRL make a suggestion chart with lots of colors as it seems that this is all that works with certain crowds?

What is the precedent going to be now that BCS's are gone?

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W8ZNX on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
give me a break
its legal for am ops to use all
or any part of 40 fone

want them to stay around 7290
they get run off that freq by a ssb net

your line
" am'ers using modified cb gear "
means you know nothing

when i run am
i run 50's style ham gear
many of the am ops i know
are running homebrew gear

todays new age ssb ops have more in common
with cb ers than todays am ops

am ops have just as much right to the fone band
as ssb ops

dit dit
mac
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K9IUQ on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N0AH >> "is going to be junked for AM’ers using their modified CB gear"

Please let us all know how to convert a 27mhz CB radio to 40 mter Am??

I have read some pretty stupid crap here on eham thru the years but your article may be one of the most stupid.

Cw and AM modes are the heritage of hamradio. Some hams still like to pursue these modes. Most AMers use Vintage Equipment restored by themselves. So you lose 10 khz out of a 300hz band. Live with it. Be grateful that most ham AMers unlike Dxers and contesters are courteous and confine their activitys to small segments of the Band.

Stan K9IUQ
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W5JO on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
You are right about the chances of great DX on 40 if the SSB operators would just stay out of the way.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KD5SFK on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Bitter much?
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WA3SKN on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Trolling for flames?
And yet another "article" that should be in the "Speak Out" column!

-Mike.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by GW8JGO on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Ummm..not the most informed article. I'm looking forward to operating AM on 40m. I hope we can get a European AM scene going. A couple of fixed frequencies is all we might need for this minority sport (in EU anyway).

EU <-> USA AM on 40m would a great fun.

It's all about mutual respect and courtesy. Simple!

73. Dave.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by GW8JGO on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Cw and AM modes are the heritage of hamradio"

Forget to mention that comment. Absolutely right! Heritage Radio is a great term for those activities.

Wouldn't it be great to have a WARC style band just for those modes? Anyone got 50Khz or so spare between 5Mhz and 8Mhz say?

73 Dave.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by NC4TB on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Appears that mutual respect and courtesy are missing, both on the air and in forums,but that issue is another dead horse.
 
Paul, E-Ham... What Are You Doing?  
by N8NSN on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Bad publicity is better than no publicity.

Shame on E-Ham for this one and a BIG 'shame on you' goes out to Paul-(N0AH)... You have been around long enough to know what has been done with this article. You have set up a troll line. Upon reading this; I felt like I just came in from work to find a pile of dog dung in the foyer. Bad dog!

""another station in Michigan cranked up his radio and began calling CQ CQ on the AM band..."" Did you mean "mode" Paul? Where was this... Obviously below 7200... I see your point but, your 'bash' on the AM mode was a little much.

""...is going to be junked for AM’ers using their modified CB gear."" Paul, can you tell me how this is done? I would love to modify a CB and use it for QRP work on 40. Come on Paul, really I understand your frustration, but this is a little much.

""It just needs respect."" Respect? Hm, interesting to talk in terms of respect when you just bashed the entire AM community, Paul.

I enjoy listening to the old school AM-ers talking about their vintage gear. If I have my PC fired up while I listen, I will look up the gear they are referring to and feed my mind.

(shrug)

Lighten up Paul. There is plenty of 40 meters for everyone.

:-)
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N0AH on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Go have some AM QSO on 14.200MHz when DX is peaking and see how people feel- It is called managing an allocation of resources.......

As for CB, CB voice keyers are very popular and you can hear the difference. They are a notch up from MFJ.

This is not trolling......it is trying to save and/or suggest a DX phone window in an obvious portion of the band which has anticipated and written about for this use.

A "portion" of the band we can DX in without QRM from stations that can be effectively speaking higher up the band. You know, the Fred talking to Barny scenerio at 7.240Mhz...........do I really have to draw a picture????

If you don't "GET IT", AM radio is very popular on CB and with the same handful who get on 80M clear of the DX window mostly after sunrise. Go join em! They typially are unfriendly-

I guess AM was popular during Nixon and may be returing since all those buttons can be hard to figure out on the newer radios.... but if you want to DX, talk 10,000 miles, collect a couple hundred countries this year, get your WAZ, etc......hit the SSB button and tell AM'ers to move up above 7.200MHz-

Here, I hope this clarifies my feelings-

Paul N0AH
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N0AH on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
OH yeah, did I mention AM mode should be eliminated from Ham Radio?
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KR4EY on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Wouldn't it be great to have a WARC style band just for those modes?"

There is a phone allocation for every band in the US except 30 and 60 meters.

Phone is not just for SSB. Its for AM too!!!

"EU <-> USA AM on 40m would a great fun."

That would be great. But why limit it to only 40 meters.

I'm not a AM user, but the FCC rules do not say AM can not be used on the phone bands.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KR4EY on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"OH yeah, did I mention AM mode should be eliminated from Ham Radio? "

If we start eliminating modes will we have no ham radio.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K0BG on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
On page 78 or the May 2009 issue of QST is an OpEd written by Dr. William Baker, W1BKR. You're forgiven if you don't know who he is, but he teaches a doctrine of kindness. I'm now retired, but I still found his book, 'Leading With Kindness' a very interesting read. While the doctrine isn't owned by the good doctor, his methodology of explaining it makes the book worth the price of admission. If amateurs would adopt even a small modicum of the doctrine, we'd all be better off.

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by GW8JGO on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"That would be great. But why limit it to only 40 meters."

No limit really of course. As this was a topic relating to 40m it seems apt. With the BC stations moving out of 7.1-7.2Mhz we have a bit more space here. I personally felt operating AM in the crowed part of the band 7.0-7.1Mhz was a little tricky.

Granted the extra 100Khz has been around to us for a while, and I've only ever heard one or two Portuguese AMers on in that section which in the short time frame between the BC stations being relatively weak in the day.

"I'm not a AM user, but the FCC rules do not say AM can not be used on the phone bands."

Oh yes, I am aware of this thanks. In the UK the RSGB recommends AM in the all modes sections of the bands.

My point about an AM WARC band would be that it would give some structure to channelised AM operation away from the main bands with less pressure and co-channel interference between competing modes. Just food for thought and wishful thinking really.

73 all. Dave.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K3ZS on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Blah blah blah
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WA1RNE on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

"A "portion" of the band we can DX in without QRM from stations that can be effectively speaking higher up the band. You know, the Fred talking to Barny scenerio at 7.240Mhz...........do I really have to draw a picture????"


"OH yeah, did I mention AM mode should be eliminated from Ham Radio?"


>>> Going a tad off the deep end aren't we? I'm not sure how long you've been licensed, but put the coffee down and recall for a moment how long it's been since anyone worked DX on 40 above 7100 Khz. Operating patterns will adjust gradually as U.S. hams begin getting use to the open phone band.


As for your comments about AM, sorry, that's wishful thinking on your part. Personally I still enjoy AM operation and don't plan on giving it up anytime soon.


Please, give the comments about CB gear a rest. IMO it makes you sound even less credible.


You should consider writing a real article about 40 meters and it's history instead of an opinionated "speak out" piece that generates a lot of flack - mostly headed in your direction.


....WA1RNE
 
What Are You Doing? Stirring up mud.  
by AI2IA on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
After the foreign broadcasters left 7100 to 7200 kHz on forty meters, someone had to be first to drop the hatchet on eHam.net. It looks like N0AH gets the honor or dishonor as the situation develops.

Some things are best left unsaid. This is never the case on eHam.net.

Hopefully all of this stupidity will not carry over on the air on forty meters.

Peace is a beautiful thing and worth the effort at self-control.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W5AK on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Paul... I must respectfully disagree with your comments. I have found the AM operators in my area to be among the most technically savvy around, at least in the lost art of tube circuit design and operation. They can operate anywhere, but I have found them to be pretty sensitive to operating on a few select channels. A well tuned AM signal is really no broader than an ESSB signal (~6 KHz). I wonder what you might have written had the "offender" have been operating SSTV or some other fairly broad digital mode? As far as AM goes, the use of your notch control should allow reasonable SSB operation in the same "neighborhood".
 
RE: What Are You Doing? Stirring up mud.  
by AD4U on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AM and CW are the original foundation of HAM radio??

Well you just wait until I fire up my old spark transmitter. If you think 100% plate modulated AM is wide...............

Dick AD4U
 
RE: What Are You Doing? Stirring up mud.  
by W8AAZ on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I notice that the clearing out of the broadcasters has left the phone band below 7.2 to be come a big guns DX pilup platform in the evenings. All the holes between the BC stations higher up the band seem empty at night but in the new clear band, it is just europeans calling and huge pilups of big guns calling them all over the place, making it useless to me, a little gun. But daytime seems about the same, endless nets and poor propagation.
 
RE: What Are You Doing? Stirring up mud.  
by N6NKN on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I haven't noticed any QRM from hams running AM, but our group, that has been active for about two years on 7.190, has seen an increase in QRM from DXers. They have little or no regard for others currently using the frequency.

People in glass houses should not throw stones.

Rick N6NKN
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KI4WAF on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I don't care what mode the phone guys use, so long as they do it with proper phonetics! :-)
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W2WDX on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
NOAH ... can't help but noticing just how much you sound like a CB operator complaining about somebody "chuckin" on you.

And you also seem to be in the minority here, I don't anyone coming to support your argument. If you don't like AM turn the VFO knob a little.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W4VR on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
So far they have been occupying 7.160+/-. When I operated AM back in the early 60's I threw in the towel when the interference from the SSB guys got to be too much to handle. It should not be a problem on 40 if you stay away from the 7.153-7.167 segment. There's plenty of room on that portion of the band to accomodate both modes. Should the AM'ers decide to operate everywhere in extra/advanced segment, then everybody has a problem.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WI7B on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

OMs,

If I may diverge. I think the real turf battle is upstream. The 7200-7300 spectrum is still open to Broadcasters even while they have been given fresh ground above that in (formerly) landmobile land.

That's where we should be claiming and re-claiming our radio service privileges, not againt each other.

73,

---* Ken
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WI7B on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

OMs,

If I may diverge. I think the real turf battle is upstream. The 7200-7300 spectrum is still open to Broadcasters even while they have been given fresh ground above that in (formerly) landmobile land.

That's where we should be claiming and re-claiming our radio service privileges, not againt each other.

73,

---* Ken
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KC2QYM on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
It's enough of an issue using SSB on the bands these days let alone competing with the AM bandwidth hogs. AM enthusiasts continue to use this mode to keep ancient equipment alive and I respect that but...using AM is plain selfish and creates intolerable conditions by forcing the SSB phone users to crowd into the already crowded bands. My thought is that AM is obsolete in the currently crowded bandspace and should be banned due to the many new amateurs joining our ranks. Either that or make a full court press to expand our frequency allocations...As this will not occur, AM should be banned and the manufacturers should be mandated to eliminate the mode from their newly manufactured gear. Back in the 60s and 70s tranceivers were built without AM since SSB was the new rage. They were onto something back then and it is even more imperative now to consider this. 73, KC2QYM
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KC2QYM on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
It's enough of an issue using SSB on the bands these days let alone competing with the AM bandwidth hogs. AM enthusiasts continue to use this mode to keep ancient equipment alive and I respect that but...using AM is plain selfish and creates intolerable conditions by forcing the SSB phone users to crowd into the already crowded bands. My thought is that AM is obsolete in the currently crowded bandspace and should be banned due to the many new amateurs joining our ranks. Either that or make a full court press to expand our frequency allocations...As this will not occur, AM should be banned and the manufacturers should be mandated to eliminate the mode from their newly manufactured gear. Back in the 60s and 70s tranceivers were built without AM since SSB was the new rage. They were onto something back then and it is even more imperative now to consider this. 73, KC2QYM
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W5ESE on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
As a general rule, AM operators participate in
round tables, sometimes a dozen or more chaps
each taking a turn on a single frequency.

Because of that operating custom, the effective
bandwidth per participant is rather low. If they
were participating in large contests, calling CQ
one to a frequency, I would agree with you that it
would pose a problem.

But that's just not their custom.

73
Scott
W5ESE
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KF1Z on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>>>AM enthusiasts continue to use this mode to keep ancient equipment alive and I respect that <<<<

I use AM .. and my transmitter is less than a month old.. My receiver is less than a year old (software defined, QS1R)...

Where is the ancient?


>>>but...using AM is plain selfish and creates intolerable conditions by forcing the SSB phone users to crowd into the already crowded bands.<<<

WHAT crowded bands?

The only time any band is crowded is during a big contest.


If we were talking about 17 meters, that's only 58khz wide (phone portion)...
Then MAYBE there would be a valid argument.

So far all I see is one guy who thought HE was the only one anxious to use a certain piece of band.



AM is phone, SSB is phone, FM is phone etc.

Anywhere your license permits you to operate phone, you can use that mode.

ARRL "charts" have NO bearing on where we operate.
ONLY FCC rules dictate that.




 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by G6NJR on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
is it not time we got rid of AM at last CB'rs were forced off so hows about the rest of us got off it
it's almost as bad as this as this wide SSB stuff for splatter all over the show and hogging excess bandwidth

Pete , Known to hate kilowatt amps , wide(armchair copy old man)SSB and ILRP

G6NJR
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WG7X on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
As a frequent user of 40 meters, I too noticed the AM phone guys setting up camp on 7.160.

My reaction was mostly "So what.", with a bit of "Why there?" thrown in.

Over all, I'd say that the movement of AM broadcast has left us with a vacuum that various groups are trying to fill. I have also noted that the .200 to .300 are is a bit more free since everyone else has moved downward.

So that's where I set up camp to call CQ and chat "Fred and Barney style"

As far as the big guns and EU DX are concerned...

Well, EU DX is harder from here in the rainy Pacific NW, no matter what band were talking about. Sure, it's frustrating to hear better equipped stations working the coveted DX, but again, so what?

There's always going to be somebody out there who're better equipped, either geographically or otherwise.

Get used to it already!

One last note: AM broadcasters in China apparently never got the memo... Here on the West Coast we can hear them very clearly in the mornings... the other Asian countries got the memo, but the BY's appear to ignore international agreements on band usage just like they do other international referendums on silly stuff like pollution or copyrights...

Nuff said:

73 Gary
 
40M -- What Am I Doing?  
by K4RAF on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Using a pair of offset full wave loops @50' & work DX with 100W, like I have been doing for years on 40M, BC stations or not. I never saw the reason to cry & have lived on East Coast all my life. I actually enjoyed SWLing more than talking on 40M.

The farce for 50 years has been "40M was UNUSABLE" by hams, however, that was never so on SSB but rather just certain 40M frequencies. With all the audio processing built into today's radios, a heterodyne shouldn't really present a significant challenge.

It isn't hard to get a signal on 40M, it is only 33 feet for a 1/4 wave...

Drowning in tears, pass me a tissue...

Raf
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K4PDM on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N0AH, I must respectfully ask where were you when the broadcast stations were there?

When those of us who have always loved 40 meters notched and if-shifted as best we could so we could take advantage of the propagation?

I was working Japan and Italy on SSB from the mobile with 100W into a hamstick twenty years ago--split, of course. Maybe you did it too. Or is the "split" button one of those on your rig that you don't know how to use?

I resent the implication that the big guns who wouldn't put forth the effort to work our best band earlier, want to move in and take over now that their ears will be spared the heterodynes.

There's room for everybody on 40, but not a lot of room for attitude...
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W9WHE-II on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Appearantly it is now "politically incorrect" to use AM on 40 meters. What next? Obama will tax hams that use AM?

 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W9WHE-II on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Mabey Obama will claim that since AM uses more energy then SSB, that AM contributes to so-called "global warming" and outlaw or tax it out of existence, the same way he wants to "bankrupt" coal fired electricity producers.

AMers.....be ware! You are now guilty of contributing to global warming!
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WA1RNE on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

"Back in the 60s and 70s tranceivers were built without AM since SSB was the new rage. They were onto something back then and it is even more imperative now to consider this. 73, KC2QYM"


.... That's completely incorrect. Go back and research the offerings from Drake - like the TR-4, Yaesu - FT-101 line, Hallicrafters - FPM-200 and Collins - KWM-380, Swan with the 260 Cignet, 350, 400, 500CX, etc., National with the NCX-3 and NCX-5 and many more.


Many manufacturers in the 60's and 70's also produced separate receivers and transmitters with SSB/CW and AM capability that could be set up for transceive, like Johnson with the Invader 2000 with 800 watts input on AM, all the Drake 4 Lines, Kenwood T-599/R-599 and many others.

Then consider all the MODERN rigs that include AM capability starting from the 80's right up to the latest transceivers available today.


Seeing that you may be new to ham radio you might want to do a little research before jumping on the "ban AM" bandwagon.


...WA1RNE
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KC2UGV on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
CB Radio mod for 40 Meters? Where are those mods at? I've got a few CB's hanging around, and would love to mod one of those to get on 40 Meters until I get the cash for a nice FT-9000, or TS-2000 :)
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KF4HR on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Paul... Are AM'ers bothering you day and night? Every time you turn on your rig? Is it so bad you can barely squeeze your SSB signal onto 40 meters? And are you considering throwing your rig out the window and/or giving up the hobby? No? Well it sure sounds like it! Give me a break...

AM'ers polluting the airwaves, eh? What this really sounds like is, one AM station bothered you and you felt compelled to blast all AM'ers out of the water so you can work DX on 40.

Wow, imagine that... Interference on the HF bands. Luckily that never happens to the rest of us... oh, except for on contest weekends, SSB'ers that start calling CQ 1khz away for an on-going QSO or Net, brain-dead idiotic stations purposely causing QRM, etc, etc. Nope... no interference here!

Paul, at any given time there aren't that many AM stations on the air, and the majority of them that are on, typically are in AM nets or round tables.

And what's wrong is bragging about an automated CQ machine? I'd take that conversation over countless other tasteless conversations I've heard on the HF bands over the years.

Write the ARRL? What's next? Letters to the FCC? Be careful what you ask for Paul. One day you just might be giving up your SSB, CW, and all other bandwidths and be limited to PSK31 style bandwidth only. With a total of 30khz per band, on fewer bands.

Even though you might not be able to transmit EXACTLY where you want at any given time, there is room for everyone Paul, yes even AM'ers. Just spin your damn dial. And if your 'tuned antennas' have limited bandwidth, break down and add an antenna tuner. They work nice.

KF4HR
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by AF3Y on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Interesting (Useless) factoid: If you seperate the posts in this thread by operator license class, you will find that most (not all) of the half-wit posts come from the same "area". Seems like class warfare exists where ever and when ever.(??)
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N7BUI on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Dang! Thanks for the info. I'm going to set up my fleet of CB Invader 2000's all converted for use on 40 meters AM and start calling CQ on 10 frequencies at once(only limited by the number of conversions that I have on hand). I'll start at 7.150 with 10 kc spacing that should take care of those SSB'rs who want to chase DX.

That's what the article makes it sound like the AM'rs are up to. AM users tends to stick to single freq watering holes such as 3870, 3885, and now 7.160. Since most hams don't use AM they stick to calling frequencies. What the heck is the difference between them and nets that operate almost every night on the same frequencies. Or the ones that are up almost 24 hours a day depending conditions.

It's easy. Turn your dial. If the frequency is unused feel free to call CQ. That's the way it works.

 
RE: What Are You Doing? Stirring up mud.  
by KG4YMC on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I haven't heard much am on 40 in north fla area I am in. The foreign broadcasters are am . Tell them they are banned from that mode, I am sure they will listen to you , just like telliing a criminal that useing a gun in a crime is illegal . Hams were, and I guess are working dx on 40 between the foreing broadcsters, interference qrm n or whatever, its called operator skill. Even us low power peep squaks can get a qso in once in awail. I would like to hope the bc will swith to internet, and other more efficent modes . point about giveing up old tec? . Now that tvs are digital, during a power outage it used to be you could stillget the audio on local channel six during a hurricane or ememgency . Now with digital no audio, and if you got one of those backup portable bw tvs it will be useless. OK , you should have battery backup ect. but point is they should have kept an audio channel for people to acess in emergcy. But the point is , there should be enought band to go around . I don't complain about l78 . on 40 being used for the centry all states nets at night , use a vfo and move on . shesss. . oh, hope I am clean and not rambling to much , also I used a period once in awail, getting better hi . 73kg4ymc
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W3LK on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
<< OH yeah, did I mention AM mode should be eliminated from Ham Radio?>>

Who died and left you in charge? What a stupid suggestion.

73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by NG3J on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Well, at least we're having this discussion....If the broadcasters were still there, I, nor anyone else, would be posting on this topic as to who and what mode can operate as the really big guns - the broadcast stations would continue to trample all over us on 40m between 7100-7200.... :-)

Fred NG3J
 
RE: What Are You Doing? Stirring up mud.  
by KG4YMC on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
spark gag transmitters ? gives new (old) meaning to full break in capability ? cannot call it " sky command" kenwood may have copyright on that, youre have to show it to laura when your done . hi hi 73 kg4ymc terry .
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K5UJ on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N0AH you poor thing, something you have no interest in is in your way (hint, the big knob on your Icom Pro is for moving away from the annoying AM station) so it should be made illegal. Having some control issues eh?

I see in qrz.com that you are a self-described contester. I'm a recovering contester myself. Even though a lot of great frequencies are taken up on weekends by people making what all non-hams, (the ones I've asked at least) and many hams consider pointless contacts, I'm not calling for the end of contesting. Maybe I should.

Oh, and all that awful CBish processing gear they use on AM! Boxes from Inovonics, Orban, Dorrough...oh, wait, I don't think I've ever found any connection between those mfr's and CB. oopsie.

Here's an idea: N0AH, how about giving AM a try before you call for the ban of all AM. You might broaden and enhance your knowledge of radio.

Oh, yeah, and here's a little bit of news: It's been recently discovered that when an AM station vacates a frequency, _it's usable for other modes--it doesn't vanish!_ How about that!
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N8QBY on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Boy, the fish are biting today!!
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KE7FD on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Hmmm... Have some ham operators devolved into thinking "might makes right"? I'm not sure who in this thread is the mightiest or the most-right, but perhaps if everyone would stick to the rules under the law which we in the U.S. are all obligated to abide by, topics like this would never come up. But then again, bending the rules is what gives meaning to the lives of some people who otherwise cannot find satisfaction and pride by contributing to society.

Perhaps a quick review of the following would be a good start, so open your books to the following sections:

§ 97.103 Station licensee responsibilities.

§ 97.307 Emission standards.
(a) No amateur station transmission shall occupy more bandwidth than necessary for the information rate and emission type being transmitted, in accordance with good amateur practice.

§ 97.313 Transmitter power standards.
(a) An amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.

If you don't have a copy of the rules on-hand, the complete Title 47, Part 97 that governs U.S. Amateur operations can be found here:

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_98/47cfrv5_98.html

In reverence to those inclined to feel the laws do not apply to them, may I share with everyone else who does, a set of alternate rules. In the format popularized by David Letterman, I give you the Ten Suggestions:

10. You really should not covet your neighbor’s antenna; you really should not covet your neighbor’s base radio, nor his mobile rig, nor his tower, nor his HT, nor his computer, nor any thing that is in your neighbor’s station.

9. You really should not bear false witness against your eHam neighbor.

8. You really should not steal someone else's use of a frequency by cranking up your amp to talk to your buddy across town.

7. You really should not always put yourself first.

6. You really should kill the amp in most cases.

5. If it's not too much trouble, remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, whatever day of the week that is for you.

4. You really should not take the name of the Lord your God in vain; control your temper and bite your tongue (don't be a "potty" mouth).

3. You really should not bow down yourself to radios, nor serve them.

2. You really should not make yourself into any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Yeah, aren't you ugly enough?

1. You really should have no other gods before me, even your radio hobby.

Amen.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N6AJR on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
cheese anyone??
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N8RGQ on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"40 Meters -- What Are You Doing? Reply
by N0AH on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
OH yeah, did I mention AM mode should be eliminated from Ham Radio? "


What's next CW ? Give it a break ! Just be happy we haven't went to the 160m model like the rest of the planet is doing .

I for one would like to know why E-HAM keeps putting so called "ARTICAlS" like this up here !

73,
Terry
N8RGQ
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KB0TXC on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Geeze...

Someday I would like to build a mid powered, plate modulated AM rig. (Finding the iron is the real bug-a-boo, though.)

I think somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed and decided that they do not like AM operators. And this is coming from me, someone who does not hesitate to throw a jab or two if I feel that it is called for...

Somehow, this article and thread seems to be a variation on the old dogs vs. cats argument for what makes the best house pet.

Cheers,

Joe KB0TXC
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by NK7Q on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I agree with K4PDM. 40-meters has always been there and those of us who believe this is the best band have been there between the broadcast stations for years. We made due. Now that the BCS are gone below 7200 kHz, there is room for a lot more people. The AM folks have every right to be here and it is within their privileges. I like to listen to the old boat anchor rigs. We hard-core 40-meter types will continue to enjoy this marvelous band that others are now beginning to discover.

73
Jim - NK7Q
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by AB7E on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

I'm no fan of AM on the ham bands, but this is a really, really, really lame and stupid excuse for an article ... even by eHam's low standards. I see nothing constructive about it whatsoever, other than possibly jacking up eHam's hit counter.

Why does every dolt with a personal gripe post it here as an "article" instead of using the speakout forum, and why does eHam keep allowing it?

Dave AB7E

 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WB8UHZ on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!


W8ZNX said it all. Well said

Tim
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KE4ZHN on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Good grief...eHam has sunk to a new low. Now we have self proclaimed frequency cops whining about modes they dont like. Heres a hint Paul...spin the big knob and leave the AM guys alone. Just because they like restoring and operating boat anchors and you dont does that mean we should do away with the mode? This has got to be one of the most asinine so called "articles" I have ever seen posted here.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KG4YVA on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KB0TXC - A Golden Retriever by far!! Great dog. My wife has one as a Seeing Eye dog.

JA
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K0RGR on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I see there's a post over on another gripe site, that must be related to this. It's from an AMer who says he was having fantastic QSO's on 40 until the SSB stations jumped all over him and left him feeling broken and assaulted.

All I can say is that the SSB segment on 40 below 7.2 Mhz. is fairly narrow. The General Class only have 25 Khz. down there. Taking up 1/4 of it for one AM signal seems a bit selfish, and somehow, I doubt that the selectivity in that old boat anchor receiver is exactly state of the art. So, I would expect anybody operating AM in the General segment from 7175 to 7200 to feel seriously picked on.

It's really not a matter of 'rights'. It's a matter of doing what's right. If everybody tries to respect everybody else, there will be no problems.

 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N4JTE on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
40Meters-- WHAT ARE YOU DOING?, Well to answer the "question", I am enjoying the heck out of it, I've had the the chance to renew old friendships with a few Uk and Ireland stations along with some VK's on long path, not possible before the FBC shift.
There is a LOT more room for all of us and I for one can certainly accomodate the occasional ham running AM. Definetly more fun now than relying on FB hetrodynes when checking front to back on 40 wire beam experiments !
Regards,
Bob
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N0AH on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AM takes up 10KHz with an amp, power mic, roger beep, and all the other gizmos AM'ers love......Next time you want to work zone 17 on 40M LP for that last one for WAZ SSB and Billy Bob in Texas wipes you out talking to his neighbor in Oklahoma on AM mode at 7.150MHz, you might "GET IT"....but since most AM'ers don't care what or who they tear up with QRM, I guess you can turn that dial but don't hold your breath-

I guess I'm just going to run full legal with AM on 14.200MHz tomorrow morning- My guess is I'll get a lot more complaints over the air than here- hahaha!
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing? The ham thing!  
by AI2IA on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N4JTE has it so right! Forty meters with more room on it for hams, how wonderful is that? Hams have a reputation for courtesy and sharing. Hams know how to handle the occasional lid, just turn the big knob, give him a deaf ear. Sure there is room for AM, just as CW will always be welcome, digital and all the rest. The whackos make a lot of noise on eHam.net and are responsible for the low quality here most of the time, but that is not the majority.

We have a good thing here, and nobody is going to ruin it for us. Demonstrate that you appreciate the privilege of having a license, take pride in it, and play fair. You'll never regret it.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WB8UHZ on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I've worked AM phone for years, so have you if you use SSB, its AM phone too. But I have never come across an AM signal 10KC wide! I've heard these complaints for years about 20, 30, 40, and 50kc wide signals! What are you using for a receiver? Take a look at the SSB rig you're using and find out what filter it uses if it has one for the AM mode? Some modern receivers do not have an AM filter they are optional and without a filter the radio is looking at 12KC of bandwidth!! Is your NB turned on, some of these new modern radios have greatly impaired intercept points when the blanker is on. ON the other had we have AM haters, who just want to complain so they tell a story about the mode, not the truth.

By the way I see the guy who started this joke, about CB AM ops and 50 kc. wide signals likes contest! Hmmmm should be eliminate contests?
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N0AH on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Bad dog?? Har!
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WB8UHZ on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Paul N0AH

Roger beep AM ham stations? You sure have made a fool of yourself. By your comments I can tell, as well as the vast majority of others in this thread that you don't have a clue as to what your talking about. Having fun making a fool of yourself? Are you just entertaining yourself? I suppose you are having a few extra beers tonight, maybe forgot your meds? Whats up? Beep.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by G3LBS on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I had my first contact on 40 AM in 1956 and can remember the guy's accent to this day - can't remember anybody's now - hey it may be my hearing I don't think.
W2/G3LBS
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W5HTW on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Should eliminate DX chasing. Either than or make DX contacts only valid if they are worked on 30 meters. Nowhere else. There! Can I get MY way?

I was trying to figure out how to convert one of those CB AM rigs to 40 meters. Best I could figure was smash it with a very big hammer, shove it out the door, and put a Johnson Valiant on the table. Yes! That would work for me.

Just how COULD someone convert a CB to 40 meter AM? That would sure take a buncha rework. Haw.

Sounds like someone is awfully damned spoiled. Maybe his Pablum didn't digest too well. Or the Milk Of Magnesia hasn't worked yet.

Ed
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K9FON on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Here we go again another b**ch session.
Nobody is happy with anything to do with ham radio these days. I guess if one is not happy anymore with the hobby sell out and find a better hobby like golf, model airplanes or trains, or something else less stressful.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by G3LBS on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Tennis is better you can use your old balls in a pneumatic launcher to erect your antennae.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W7ETA on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N0AH's feckless writing is entertaining, as are the reasoned responses to his irrational propositions embedded with soap bubble logic.

If someone were to pierce his hallucinations, eHam would have less entertainment.

Best from cool Tucson
Bob
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W7COM on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
n0ah: "I guess I'm just going to run full legal with AM on 14.200MHz tomorrow morning..." If that's the power it takes to make it to the station you're talking to, then OK. If it's just to crap all over the band, then you know that you're a better ham than that.

I'm using D-Star. What are all those FM folk chewing up the band with 25KHz wide signals doing? Don't they know all you need is a 6KHz signal for voice? I outta write the ARRL about that stuff!
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W7COM on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
W5HTW: "Just how COULD someone convert a CB to 40 meter AM? That would sure take a buncha rework. Haw."

Haven't you been down to the local truck stop and see dem dar transverters for the "200 below" channels? Ya just hook the PL-25niner to the clearance lights of your 53' trailer and it SWRs up just dandy!
 
Suggestion  
by N8YX on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
For those with privvies and AM-capable rigs:

Join the fun at or near 7.160 for the "New, Improved!" Eham AM net.

Myself, my Drake 7-line and a Behringer EQ setup (if required) will be glad to help keep the glorious AM tradition alive. Work out the sked details and I'll be there.
 
WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU DOING NOAH?  
by PLANKEYE on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Dude, you passed out face up and threw up on yourself.

DUDE?

 
RE: WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE YOU DOING NOAH?  
by W9OY on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Wanna bet this "AM" nonsense didn't even happen?


73 W9OY
 
RE: Suggestion  
by N6NKN on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Sounds like a plan. Never used my Drake TR-4 on AM. Thanks to this thread I'll give it a try.

Rick N6NKN
 
RE: Suggestion  
by NB3O on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Dude, you passed out face up and threw up on yourself."

Those days were simpler times. Mostly macaroni and cheese after a six pack of Colt 45.

Now that the 7160 group is official, I'll have to find the old D-104 and see if the modulator on the Viking Valiant still works.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KD5OEI on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The OM must be making a jest. Or maybe trolling. Or maybe this one annoying thing, when he was getting that DX, really made him angry. Only his hairdresser knows for sure. But the complaints about AM - they are way unreasonable and come from looking at the big wide world through a soda straw.

Others have commented on AM's use of spectrum, and it can be seen how its use today does not consume much bandwidth-time when the facts are unemotinally evaluated on logical precepts.

The "CB" comments are more reflective of what is heard on the carrierless voice mode, but the facts were obfuscated. Ok fine, but I'll address that:

I have no objection to anyone getting a ham license in accordance with the law.

The infestation of bad stuff on SSB is probably because CBers-cum-extras, some of which do not have very good manners due to habits and styles generated by what's been unenforced on the 11M band for decades, have 'discovered' ham radio and SSB and and thousands of frequencies and don't want to bother with or don't understand how to operate a purpose-built ham AM rig properly due to the many controls and meters - it has to be learned and it can be tedious, and when something blows up on an AM rig of legal size, it's generally much more expensive than melting a Chinese 3-500Z in the leenyar. Why should they bother with AM and carriers and high level modulation and the like? SSB does a fine job for with a push of a button and modern gear tends to protect itself. So the former CB guys are mostly on SSB for HF. Not many on AM.

Another fact being missed, that supports the above statement, is that what might be termed "serious" CBers, the kind that might be drawn to ham radio for the long distance communications aspect. They already use modified ham SSB rigs and linear amplifiers and beams in order to gain distance on the 11M band. Years ago I knew a guy that used a hacked Ten-Tec to talk with his relatives in Mexico every Friday night. On SSB. He's a ham now, still has the ten-tec and still does not use AM. Many of the hams-from-CB-land prefer to get down to business and communcate, and most don't push technology too deeply or care much about it as long as the equipment is working properly. SSB is easy commo and they are there on it.

So most imported "CBers", as new hams on the bands- they tend to use the SSB mode. I am sure they do well. I hear the CB lingo all the time when there's no carrier involved. (And on FM repeaters, but that's another story.) None of that bothers me.

So, there's hate for CB, an important, inexpensive, unlicensed service that is needed by the trucking industry and the general public.

"bad CBer ham" behavior is blamed on the wrong mode.

AM mode is hated, a mode that includes a great deal of construction and experimentation. Getting 400+ clean watts on HF from of a few switching power supply MOSFETs as at least one person around here does - it's called research and it's called fun. I like tubes and high voltage. I have a cart machine for station ID but seldom use it. Repeaters use automation or digitzed voice for station ID. What's to hate?

What's next on the hate list? DSB (ever heard any)? the "RTTY" family of modes? AMe (carrier+USB)? CW? FM? SSTV? Freedom? Ah-that must be it.

The best way to preserve freedom for various modes is to use as many as one likes and not get emotional, and refrain from complaining unrealistically about what others do on the bands. Nobody likes a whiner.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KB0TXC on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KG4YVA wrote:

<KB0TXC - A Golden Retriever by far!! Great dog. My wife has one as a Seeing Eye dog.>

KB0TXC Replies:

Yes, I love Goldies. Right now, we have a quite elderly chocolate lab that some jackass dumped in the middle of an expressway. He was tied to a post, and his tags had been cut off of the thingamadoodles that attache them to the collar. We love him dearly, but he is getting old. We take him to the vet almost on a bi-weekly basis for checkup and cortisone. He gets special food, a weekly bath with special shampoo for bad skin, and much love. We have had him for three years, and hope he lives another. His name is Shadow, named after the death metal band Shadow Falls.

Our next K9 child is a black lab. Again, he was a rescue puppy, but we got him young. Some worthless left him locked in a garage in a foreclosed home. He is still considered by the vet as a puppy...around two or so. His name is Yami-no-Inu, translated as 'Dog of Darkness'. He is also very much loved, and has actually brought a degree of interest for life back to Shadow.

We also have three Feline children (I am the cat person of the family)...Buffy and Angel are a pair of brothers from a calico mother. Angel is mostly Siamese and has the Siamese attitude. (If you have a Siamese, you know what I mean.) Buffy is a short haired, buff colored kitty, very laid back, gentle, and sleeps on my warm powersupply for my 12 volt rigs. He also likes to sleep on fax machines, printers my TT/L-2 TU.

We also have one female kitty that showed up on our doorstep, and she is queen of the house. Her name is Pussy Galore, and well, that fits her to a "T". She loves electric blankets, salmon roe and large pillows.

All of our four legged kids are fixed, vaccinated, and fed good food, as well as much loved.

Anyone who does not like animals would not feel comfortable in our home!

73

Joe KB0TXC

(This post proves that I have many other interests than amateur radio.)

Caio!
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KB0TXC on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Regarding the alleged "article" (the term /diatribe/ comes to mind), is it not a shame that there is no mandated "stupidity vaccine" available?

Come on now...ban the AM mode???

Please. That has got to be the stupidest thing in the world of e-ham.

Oh, BTW Plank-AI, I am in complete agreement with you for once!!! (miracles do happen, don't they?)

Lastly...

This article has inspired me. Does anyone know where I can find a center tapped plate modulation transformer that can handle 500 watts audio? Not too concerned with make or whatever. I will have a radio expert help me design a transmitter around it. Methinks that a project might be in the works sooner than later.

Best,

Joe KB0TXC
(Kitty sleeping on the TT/L-2 as I type here.)

 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K4KYV on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Instead of whining about the AM activity on 7160 kHz, why not initiate a lobbying campaign to the FCC to expand the U.S. phone band down to 7075? Even during a major CW QRMtest, the CW activity becomes sparse above about 7060. A handful of data signals may be heard as high as 7080 or thereabouts, but virtually the only CW activity to be heard on 7075-7125 is maybe two or three slow-speed signals at any one time operating in the old novice band. Otherwise, when the band is open for DX, 7075-7125 is packed with foreign SSB. Everywhere else in the world EXCEPT in continental USA, amateurs can work phone on 7075-7125. Even U.S. licensees in states, possessions and territories outside the continental 48 are allowed to operate phone on 7075-7100.

On 75/80m, the phone band was expanded down to 3600, and there is still plenty of room left for the CW/data activity as it exists on 80m. Now that conditions on 40 have substantially shifted due to the evacuation of the broadcast stations, it is time for the 40m phone band to be expanded down to 7075.

While amateurs in the entire rest of the planet are allowed to enjoy the prime phone DX this band has to offer, continental USA is like the pre-civil rights era Jim Crow south... We are relegated to the back of the 40-metre bus.

Don k4kyv
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K2WK on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that there are limits to genius." - A Wise Old Sage
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N2EY on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
K4KYV: "why not initiate a lobbying campaign to the FCC to expand the U.S. phone band down to 7075?"

Because that's not a good idea at all.

K4KYV: "Even during a major CW QRMtest, the CW activity becomes sparse above about 7060. A handful of data signals may be heard as high as 7080 or thereabouts, but virtually the only CW activity to be heard on 7075-7125 is maybe two or three slow-speed signals at any one time operating in the old novice band."

There's more to it than that.

Every time a US 'phone subband is widened, the data folks move lower, and push the CW folks even lower. The foreign 'phones operate in the US CW/data subband to get away from US 'phone QRM, too.

There are RTTY stations down as low as 7040. The number and popularity of data modes keeps growing but they aren't allowed in the 'phone subbands, so the CW folks have to deal with them.

Removing the foreign SWBC from 7100-7200 has effectively widened 40 'phone. The thing to do is to figure out how to use it best before asking for more rules changes.

K4KYV: "Otherwise, when the band is open for DX, 7075-7125 is packed with foreign SSB."

And a lot lower. Because, until relatively recently, most of the rest of the world's hams could not operate 7100-7200 at all. Those outside Region 2 who could faced megawatt SWBC QRM that was pretty local.

Now that all that's changed, they should move above 7125.

K4KYV: "Everywhere else in the world EXCEPT in continental USA, amateurs can work phone on 7075-7125. Even U.S. licensees in states, possessions and territories outside the continental 48 are allowed to operate phone on 7075-7100."

Because, until relatively recently, they didn't have 7100-7200 nor 7200-7300 at all.

K4KYV: "On 75/80m, the phone band was expanded down to 3600, and there is still plenty of room left for the CW/data activity as it exists on 80m."

Is 3600-4000 full of 'phone stations?

In most of the rest of the world, the 'phone stations have to share the band with data stations. In many if not most cases, there are no subbands-by-mode at all in their regs. That works for them because, compared to the USA, they are relatively few and far between, particularly those with high power.

Why not allow data modes in the 'phone subbands? Almost everyone else does, but here in the USA the data folks can't use most of the HF bandspace.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K9IUQ on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
To Paul N0AH :

It is much bettter to be thought a FOOL than to write a stupid article on eham and prove you are a FOOL..

Stan K9IUQ
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N7KFD on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

Wow, somebody put something in your Cheerios or what?

"OH yeah, did I mention AM mode should be eliminated from Ham Radio?"

OK everyone, he doesn't like it, it has to go. Anything else you don't like so I know what to expect with my next new rig?

N7KFD
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N3JBH on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
by "N6AJR cheese anyone??" Well big brother Beer or whine ???
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K4IQT on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Paul, all I gotta say comes down to "get over it".

QRM has been a fact of life on the HF bands since the allocations began, regardless of mode. And you, being the great DX'er, certainly have a good understanding of propagation. Just because an S7 signal (at your location) overrides the S3 DX you are trying to work does not even suggest that the S7 guy hears either one of you. Most QRM is quite unintentional, and none of us "owns" a patch of spectrum.

There's a good reason our venerable Q signal list includes one designated for signal interference. QRM is not going away any time soon, and when it does you will be pretty lonely.

You don't like heterodynes, get a decent audio DSP filter. I've had one for years, and it has made 40 SSB pretty easy to manage.

Terry, K4IQT
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W9NZ on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Be happy they are out or leaving. I live/work in Japan and we just got access to 7100 - 7200 on March 27, 2009. In this part of the world it is full of broadcast stations from China, DPRK and many others. I don't see them going away. Someone mentioned 14.275, in Asia that is the favorite frequency for AM Broadcast from DPRK. It will work out with time and at least you don't have the broadcasters any longer.

Phil
JO7KJC
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N0AH on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Funny how this article became the flag for "Save the AM Mode, Zap Paul, How to Hand a Dipole on Whales and Why Do We Have a Jimmy Carter's Library"

It is a very simple concept....establish a DX ph window on 40M or let it go to the CB'ers in the hobby.

What's next? Paint by the numbers on understanding the concept?
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W9WHE-II on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Don't worry about the AMers.
They are history. When Obama's so-called "cap and trade" program comes in, powering up those old AM, tube-type radios will be WAY, WAY too expensive. AM is doomed I tell you. Doomed!
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K4KYV on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N2EY: "Because, until relatively recently, most of the rest of the world's hams could not operate 7100-7200 at all. Those outside Region 2 who could faced megawatt SWBC QRM that was pretty local... Now that all that's changed, they should move above 7125."

Now that their 40m band has been doubled in size, they have less reason or need to operate phone or data below 7050.

(from my previous post): Otherwise, when the band is open for DX, 7075-7125 is packed with foreign SSB... Everywhere else in the world EXCEPT in continental USA, amateurs can work phone on 7075-7125. Even U.S. licensees in states, possessions and territories outside the continental 48 are allowed to operate phone on 7075-7100.

N2EY: "Because, until relatively recently, they didn't have 7100-7200 nor 7200-7300 at all."

That was exactly my point. Conditions on 40 have now substantially shifted due to the evacuation of most of the broadcast stations and the doubling of the 40m band in other parts of the world. There is no longer any need to set aside a huge chunk of spectrum space to accommodate a separate "DX phone band".

If it weren't for our mode restrictions, American hams could more easily work DX using simplex, just like everybody else. Some of the very same people who complain the loudest about AM, routinely operate split when working DX, so that one QSO occupies two SSB voice channels, taking up exactly the same amount of spectrum space as one AM signal. Isn't this a little hypocritical?

N2EY: "Is 3600-4000 full of 'phone stations?"

No. Most of the phone operators who immediately jumped to 3600-3700 and expressed so much glee about how much better it was down there away from the QRM and chaos, gradually migrated back up to the Ghetto above 3800 as the novelty wore off. CW stations are free to operate above 3600 whenever they wish, but most choose to stay down below. Numerous times I have called CQ on CW in the vicinity of 3610 when there was zero nearby phone activity, and never got a reply... a prime demonstration that the complex matrix of subbands and sub-subbands that exists in the U.S., based on a combination of emission mode AND operator class, has outlived its usefulness.

N2EY: "Why not allow data modes in the 'phone subbands? Almost everyone else does, but here in the USA the data folks can't use most of the HF bandspace."

I would go along with that, *if* other subband restrictions would also be eased up. This is another example of operating restrictions that exist only in the USA. There is no valid reason why the government-imposed amateur radio band plan in the U.S. needs to be one of the most restrictive in the entire world, while we enjoy larger amateur radio spectrum allocations than most other countries.

Maybe we do need to keep a small segment of "protected" space at the low end of each band for CW and other narrowband modes, but we have no subband restrictions at all on 160, and operators of the various modes work things out for ourselves pretty well on that band.

The exception on 160 is during contests. When there is a phone contest on, SSB signals sometimes operate all the way down to 1800. When there is a CW contest, CW can be heard up as high as 1860 to 1880. But contest periods are exceptional, not normal band conditions. I see no way to justify imposing restrictions on the entire amateur community 24/7/365 merely to accommodate contesters, a minority of the AR community, a few days out of the year.

Don, k4kyv


 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KB6QXM on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Again, this rant caused by the "dumbed down" license requirements.

Before the license was dumbed down to the point that any of my labrador retrievers could pass the ham test, we never used to have this child-like behaviour.

There was only 1 kind of ham, the type that either passed the code/theory test or did not get on the air. That's it.

Now we have a bunch of appliance operators that do not know the difference between reactance and resistance. The old AM crowd at least knew their theory. The old AM crowd kept their signals from splattering across half of the band. Why did they do this, because of old-fashioned respect and technical knowledge.

I find it great that the broadcasters have QSYed. A great day for ham radio, but all of this ranting just shows me that I need to stick mostly to 160AM, where it takes some real technical knowledge to recieve and put a reasonable signal on the band.

The ham that says that AM should be obsolete, must be from the new fangled two box top ham license class. He is result of the instant gradification generation.

It is that new instant gradification or entitlement generation that is the reason why our HB-IB visas are massive in scale. I see it and live it everyday, as I work in the Silicon Valley, the hub of technology in the world.

Ham radio is a mess now thanks to the dummy down factor. It seems a shame that I spend so much time and money on the hobby considering that it is not the same hobby that I left 20+ years ago. Gives me things to ponder.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by GW0DIV on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
CTE in Italy made a CB to 45 metre (6.5Mhz pirate band), that would give you 40 metres from a 10 metre radio or super, super high on a Superstar!

Perhaps we should have a democratic ballot to vote for "allowed" modes? We could knock off the least popular modes each round of voting, and keep going untill we're left with 4 or 5 permitted modes that would only be permitted on permitted frequencies. We'd only need 40 or 80 channels to do everything!

It would kill the "self training and experimentation" ethic as enshrined in the UK licence though. Would amateur TV be banned as thats AM? Remember it's a hobby not a religeon!!!!

Rhys
GW0DIV
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KC2UGV on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
We should only allow winlink :O

/me grabs popcorn
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K1DA on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I like the new section of 40. Worked some DX, worked US hams all over the country, with modest antennas, enjoyed the lower QRN and man made noise
than on 80. I would like to see the segment NOT turn into the AM window, the raging hormone DXer window or the shoot the breeze window because I think all can be accomodated. Of the lot, I think the AM operators are going to have more trouble with other modes with their
wide receivers than SSB ops -so that has the potential for friction. I do notice, so far, a lack of the "I can't wait to jump on someone in my passband"
attitude so common or 80. That could change but I hope not. One thing for sure, though, since I like SSB on this sub band so much don't ANYBODY tell me I should be somewhere else, OK.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K8QV on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

Thanks, morons.

I had a bet that Obama could be shoehorned into ANY topic on this site. I win, thanks to you!

Carry on . . .
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N4KC on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Aw, just another one of those "if you don't like what I like, then what you like is wrong" posts.

N0AH and a few others on this thread: I suggest more fiber in your diet and perhaps some sort of relaxation therapy. Hearing a distant heterodyne on 40 meters is a small price to pay for the freedom of using any legal mode that you enjoy.

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com
www.n4kc.blogspot.com
(An open blog dedicated to rapid technological change and its
effect on society, media and amateur radio)

 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W5WSS on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I have been learning alot about hidden stealth antennas,indoor antennas etc by building and using them along with equipment that does not use cpu's. Phase lock loop designs are fairly reliable and long lasting. Powered on 12 v dc. Can you make an electro chemical voltage source? Just a question. I would suggest that we all think about our ability to fabricate a reasonable communication system designed for stealth operation that is independently maintained and considered private property. There have been many postings here that suggest a general concern that our freedom of communications could be some way altered negatively or eliminated. There really is no guarantee that things will always be as we want. Freedom rocks 73
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N2EY on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
K4KYV, writing about DX 'phone stations operating below 7100:

"Now that their 40m band has been doubled in size, they have less reason or need to operate phone or data below 7050."

Yes and no.

Yes, they have twice as much band, and can operate "simplex" on 'phone with Region 2 stations. So there is less 'need'.

But there are still a couple of reasons to operate down on the low end:

First, DX 'phone want to work each other without being called by USA hams (who are much more numerous), so they go where USA hams can't follow - on 'phone, anyway.

Second, DX stations work split to spread out the pileup. They also do it so the DX isn't buried under hams making long calls. In fact, it's a no-no to call a DX station on his frequency if he's working split.

Third, it's easier to eliminate narrowband QRM than wideband QRM with a notch filter.

K4KYV: (from previous post): Otherwise, when the band is open for DX, 7075-7125 is packed with foreign SSB... Everywhere else in the world EXCEPT in continental USA, amateurs can work phone on 7075-7125.
...
If it weren't for our mode restrictions, American hams could more easily work DX using simplex, just like everybody else."

But since the worldwide 40 meter amateur band is now twice as wide as before, and everyone can work each other on simplex 'phone, there's less reason to widen the 'phone bands!

K4KYV: "routinely operate split when working DX, so that one QSO occupies two SSB voice channels, taking up exactly the same amount of spectrum space as one AM signal. Isn't this a little hypocritical?"

Not really - here's why:

DXing is the exact opposite of the classic old-buzzard AM roundtable we love so well. (Yes, I've been there - why oh WHY did I sell the Viking 2 and NC-173?).

In DXing and contesting, one of the main goals is to hand out as many QSOs as possible in a given time. Since the DX who works split is almost always rarer than those trying to work him, almost anything that speeds up the process is a Good Thing.

Working split speeds up the process. More hams get a QSO in less time.

One of the main defenses for AM is that the QSOs often take the form of roundtables, and so the kilohertz-per-ham is pretty low. (If an AM roundtable takes up 6 kHz, but there are twelve hams in it, that's 0.5 kHz per ham. If two hams have an SSB QSO that takes up 2.7 kHz, that's 1.35 kHz per ham. Etc.)

Apply the same logic to pileups. If working split means twice as many hams get a QSO in a given time, the kilohertz-per-ham is the same as simplex.

IMHO what it boils down to is this: Every legal mode has its place. AM is not bad just because it uses more kilohertz. (What about ESSB?)

K4KYV: "Most of the phone operators who immediately jumped to 3600-3700 and expressed so much glee about how much better it was down there away from the QRM and chaos, gradually migrated back up to the Ghetto above 3800 as the novelty wore off."

So widening 75 wasn't really a good idea.

K4KYV: "CW stations are free to operate above 3600 whenever they wish, but most choose to stay down below."

Yes, CW stations can go above 3600, but data stations can't. So the problem remains.

And while CW stations can legally go almost anywhere, it's not good amateur practice to operate routine CW in the 'phone subbands IMHO. That's why the CW folk stay below 3600.

K4KYV: "the complex matrix of subbands and sub-subbands that exists in the U.S., based on a combination of emission mode AND operator class, has outlived its usefulness."

I disagree! Here's why:

First, the matrix is becoming simpler. As the Advanced license disappears, we'll effectively have three license classes: Tech, General and Extra. Tech privileges below 10 meters are limited to one mode on three bands and are pretty easy to remember. General vs. Extra only affects four HF bands and is pretty simple too.

Should we just give all privileges to all hams? If we don't, subbands-by-license class will stay.

Second, while the license structure is getting simpler, the selection of modes is getting much more complicated.

Once upon a time, almost all amateur operation was either CW or AM 'phone, but now we have more modes than most of us can remember. Worse, many of them require a computer just to determine the callsign. That means we need more, not less, subbands-by-mode.

N2EY: "Why not allow data modes in the 'phone subbands? Almost everyone else does, but here in the USA the data folks can't use most of the HF bandspace."

K4KYV: "I would go along with that, *if* other subband restrictions would also be eased up."

Which means what? The CW folks have to live with data modes, but the 'phone folks don't. Even on 80/75 meters, where the 'phone subband is 80% of the band, the 'phone stations don't have to deal with RTTY, PSK31, WinLink, etc.

K4KYV: "This is another example of operating restrictions that exist only in the USA. There is no valid reason why the government-imposed amateur radio band plan in the U.S. needs to be one of the most restrictive in the entire world, while we enjoy larger amateur radio spectrum allocations than most other countries."

We have many more hams than the rest of the world and a higher power limit. And we're packed closer together.

K4KYV: "Maybe we do need to keep a small segment of "protected" space at the low end of each band for CW and other narrowband modes, but we have no subband restrictions at all on 160, and operators of the various modes work things out for ourselves pretty well on that band."

Think about why that is.

There are relatively few amateurs on 160, and even fewer with really big signals, in large part because effective antennas are so big compared to other bands. 160 is really only a DX band at night, too. So the 1800-2000 kHz QRM situation is much different than, say, 7000-7200, which is exactly the same number of kHz.

The reason 160 doesn't have subbands-by-mode-and-license-class is because of history (LORAN) only.

The big point, however, is selling any sort of new subbands-by-mode idea to US hams.

As you know, in the past couple of years there were two petitions put before FCC to change/eliminate subbands-by-mode. Both got RM numbers and comment periods, and lots of comments from hams.

And both were *overwhelmingly opposed* by the vast majority of commenters. I remember counting them and finding no better than 1 in 7 in favor of regulation-by-bandwidth, and no better than 1 in 8 in favor of eliminating subbands-by-mode.

Both petitioners withdrew their petitions eventually, because there was no way FCC would enact such a change in the face of such overwhelming negative comments.

IMHO the big mistake both petitioners made is that they didn't adequately build support for their proposal BEFORE sending it to FCC. Building such support isn't easy, but it's a must for such a change because unlike some other changes there's nothing in it for FCC.

---

And now for something somewhat different.

There's one BIG reason to keep AM voice alive and active in amateur radio: Publicity. This reason is so obvious that I wonder why it isn't mentioned more.

One of the most common discover-of-ham-radio stories old-timers tell is how they first heard hams ragchewing on AM, usually as SWLs of some kind. While SWLing and the big multiband console radio of yesteryear aren't as popular today, there are lots of folks with "worldband" portable SW radios.

Many of these sets are useless on SSB even if they have BFOs. But they can receive AM! So they become a recruiting tool for ham radio.

I recall an editorial in the mid-1960s talking about how the growth in US amateur numbers had stopped after being very healthy in the late 1940s and all through the 1950s. One of the factors cited was the changeover to SSB by so many HF hams, eliminating the recruitment of SWLs, whose receivers couldn't do SSB.

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N0AH on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Two things I've learned from all of these posts:

1. Not one suggestion about a band plan to allow for a phone DX window protected from interfering modes-

2. And I'm just going to CQ on the AM mode for the next 6 weeks on 14.200MHz and refer to those people who whine to this article explaining why they are nuts- Funny now that I've mentioned 20M in a numer of posts, no one seems to say anything......Maybe I should just go FM on 20M.........
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KD6HUC on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
OH MY GAWD! I use both modern and vintage gear on a daily basis and would cry if I lost the ability to do both! I think that is a fantastic facet of the hobby to refurbish or even build equipment to operate and should be encouraged. To just jump on a soapbox and say it should be banned because a few oppose it sounds ridiculous to a reasonable person. Of course ssb signals QRM each other daily and we understand that is sometimes bad operator and can also be band conditions. I can't count the times I have been working stations on numerous bands only to have another station come along. Sometimes you can hear parts of two different QSO's at the same time on frequency. It happens.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by HAMILTON_EX_W8GX on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Maybe we should all use CW for minimum bandwidth.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W7ETA on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"What's next? Paint by the numbers on understanding the concept?"

Next is just a little more of people thinking that if they show you again how disjointed your logic is (they take you through logic in a paint by the numbers fashion), the dark clouds will part, sunshine will prevail.

But.

You will prove them wrong.

After all, the mode switch on Drake T-4XC transmitters is labeled X-AM--proving the rig no longer had AM capability.

OVER
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KF1Z on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
""I am a member of the following ham radio clubs...

My Own. I consider myself so important that I always listen to anything I have to say or write (-: ""

-----------------------


Ah, that explains a lot N0AH.

 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K3YD on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Paul,

I always thought of you as a smart person. This is a little "off the track" for someone of your intelligence. Is it really your writing? Or, did some troll hijack your password and user name?
Say it isn't so!
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K4KYV on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
It might be premature to submit any petitions to the FCC at this moment. First of all, we need to wait until the situation on 40 settles down once the novelty wears off, and see what problem areas lie, if any. Secondly, there is the new political administration with new FCC personnel, and it would be wise to see just what kind of governing style they display before yanking their chain. Also, right now we are in an extended sunspot minimum. Assuming we are not in for years of low sunspot activity like the Maunder Minimum, it might be better to wait to see what plays out under more normal propagation conditions before asking for any long term changes.

But now is the time to think about the alternatives and their consequences, intended and unintended. We need some kind of coordination of the band plans in all 3 regions to reflect the changes on 40m.

The only real problem I am hearing from renegade broadcasters comes from the Horn of Africa. Radio Ethiopia still has not moved from 7110. The Voice of the Broad Masses of Eritrea transmits from Asmara on 7175, and an Ethiopian or Eritrean station is active on 7165. A jamming station apparently from Ethiopia dumps white noise on 7175 every evening beginning about 0400 GMT, and then the Eritrean station immediately moves down to 7165 on top of the other broadcast station and the jammer follows. Sometimes the jammer is active on both 7165 and 7175, wiping out a swath from 7155 all the way to 7185 with white noise. About the same time, Radio Sudan starts up at 0400 on 7200. To be in compliance with the new broadcast allocations, there shouldn't be any broadcast station below 7205 to avoid their LSB from extending outside the broadcast allocation. These stations must all be running a lot of power, because they usually drive my S-meter up as high as any of the broadcast signals I hear from 7200 on up. Maybe the Asians from the far east are causing problems in N. America at dawn, but I rarely listen at that hour, since I tend to be a night owl, not an early bird.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W4KVW on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AM is a LEGAL mode of operation & an UNDERUSED mode.It is part of the HISTORY of this wonderful HOBBY.If the AM stations were there first then they should be shown respect & NOT moved in on.It's JUST a HOBBY so lighten up,enjoy it,& stop complaining every time something does NOT go YOUR WAY.(act like an ADULT)I'm sure some AMers & CW ops feel the same way about SSB ops!

73's,
Clayton
W4KVW
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N1KEZ on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
-snip - just as the QSO was ending, another station in Michigan cranked up his radio and began calling CQ - end snip -

Do I read this correct? "QSO was ending..."
Wow... He almost stepped on a good DX didn't he?
Yep, that's worth a posting on eHam.com!

The lack of sunspots is really making folks nervous isn't it?
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by AB2CD on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I too was disappointed to hear operators using AM on our newly cleansed portion of 40. I feel it was very inconsiderate. I never quite understood the allure of AM but wasting an entire sideband in a very limited space doesn't seem right. Perhaps these operators didn't operate on 40 when you had to fight for a spot between the big foreign broadcast stations? If that's the case, welcome to 40 and could you please use SSB? Thank you. Good DX Jim AB2CD
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WA1QIX on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>AM takes up 10KHz with an amp, power mic, roger beep, >and all the other gizmos AM'ers love......

You *must* be kidding. I have been an ACTIVE amateur for 38 years (ALL OF IT ON A.M.), and have NEVER heard a "roger beep" (except when someone was fooling around for a moment). Power Mic? Never heard it on amateur radio on AM. I *have* heard the term used, but the operator in question was not on AM.

Amp? Again, lack of knowledge on the subject is obvious. Most AMers do not use "amps". They use directly modulated transmitters.

Amateurs using AM are further from CB than any other phone operators I can think of. By definition, you usually have to be somewhat technically astute to get on AM - either by building your own equipment, or repairing/modifying something old.

Someone said something about needing a modulation transformer so he could build a transmitter. Haven't used one in MANY, MANY Years. Don't need it with a modern AM rig.

Check out http://www.classeradio.com

Regards,

Steve WA1QIX
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N8QBY on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Do people actually subscribe to this site?
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N9APL on April 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I think I'll build myself a class E AM Kw Rig. Homebrewing is alive and well there ;)


http://www.classeradio.com/
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by G3LBS on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I used to be able to tell what people were saying when I used AM in the 1950's, but not since they applied speech compression to SSB. On the other hand on reflection it is probably senility.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WA1QIX on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
------------QUOTE---------------

I too was disappointed to hear operators using AM on our newly cleansed portion of 40. I feel it was very inconsiderate. I never quite understood the allure of AM but wasting an entire sideband in a very limited space doesn't seem right. Perhaps these operators didn't operate on 40 when you had to fight for a spot between the big foreign broadcast stations? If that's the case, welcome to 40 and could you please use SSB? Thank you. Good DX Jim AB2CD

-------------END QUOTE-----------

Ah yes... another case of "do it my way - I'm right and you're wrong". Can you say J (Myers-Briggs)?

I never quite understood the allure of SSB. If I want to speak to someone with poor audio quality using equipment that I bought at the store and didn't build myself, I'll use my cell phone.

If I want to build and experiment (remember, the Amateur Radio Service is a TECHNICAL service - FCC quote), Amateur Radio is the appropriate medium. I prefer hearing someone the way they actually sound, which is why I use AM.

The "argument" that AM is "wide" and we are out of band space is just a bunch of garbage. There are huge unused portions of 75 meters every night... there is usually plenty of space on 40 and 75 and 160 meters is never a problem.

But, for whatever reason, there is always some sideband group that needs to operate within a few KC of an AM QSO, even though there's plenty of open band space.

This has nothing to do with bandwidth or band space. The only time the band is full is during those rediculous contests when the band sounds like a million ducks all quacking at the same time and saying nothing. During these times, I don't usually even bother firing up..

Do you hear me saying contests should be banned from ham radio? To each their own. There is plenty of space (and time) for all activities. Just because YOU don't like MY activity doesn't mean you get to tell me I can't do mine. Is it too much to ask to just live and let live?
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K9MHZ on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I might need some more coffee, but I still don't understand what this is about.

AM has ALWAYS lurked around 7290, including 7285 and 7295. Signals that 10 Kc wide? Man, you need a new receiver.

The startup costs for AM ops are high, you have to have a large area to setup your station, and AMers typically don't spin the VFO (if they even have a VFO) away from 7290. If you would actually LISTEN and/or engage them, you'll encounter some very knowledgable people discussing circuits and homebrewing.

It's all good....AM, CW, SSB....

Brad
K9MHZ
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N2EY on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
AB2CD writes: "I too was disappointed to hear operators using AM on our newly cleansed portion of 40. I feel it was very inconsiderate."

Why? AM voice is a legal mode on the band. Sure it's not the newest thing on the block, and it takes up more spectrum, but if the AM signal is clean, what's the problem?

AB2CD: "I never quite understood the allure of AM but wasting an entire sideband in a very limited space doesn't seem right."

The allures are several.

First, AM just sounds better. More natural, less distorted, easier to listen to. I've met non-hams who, when exposed to SSB, simply cannot understand what is being said because of the distortion.

Second, because there's not much new manufactured AM gear out there, AM folks tend to be homebrewers, restorers, modifiers and experimenters by necessity. Some specialize in one particular thing, like restoring vintage gear or building a PWM rig, others try a little of this and a little of that. But whether they're running a restored DX-40 with screen modulation or brand-new Class E FET rig, they tend to be really into the technical side of their rigs.

Third, for some reason AM operations tend towards the relaxed roundtable kind of thing, with a whole bunch of hams on the same frequency sharing a real conversation. Of course this can be done with any voice mode, but it seems to be most prevalent on AM. And they have real conversations about a wide variety of topics, not just hello/goodbye.

That sort of conversation isn't something everyone likes, of course, but it has its place. It's similar to the way some people just love "The News From Lake Wobegon" and others can't sit still to listen to it.

Fourth, while the AM signal is wider, the actual use of the band in kilohertz-per-ham is often LESS than with SSB because of the above-mentioned roundtable effect.

Yes, there are some AMers with splattery signals, too many highs, questionable conversations, etc. But they're not unique; consider the 9 kHz wide ESSB folks, the PSK31 folks overdriving their rigs, the linears with poor two-tone performance, etc.

If bandwidth is the issue, we should all run nothing but narrowband modes like CW and PSK31. With decent equipment, ten CW QSOs can fit in the space of just one SSB QSO, and they need much less power for 100% solid copy. Same for PSK31. Sure, they're not voice modes, but if spectrum is limited, shouldn't we all only use narrow modes?

73 de Jim, N2EY
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WG7X on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
OK, this is getting pretty silly.

AM as a mode of operation is OK, but operating AM is not leading edge or even particularly difficult.

Patting your self on the back for restoring and using antique equipment is the ham radio equivalent of a Model T Ford club getting on the freeway to go to a meeting.

Yeah, they can do that, but it surely upsets the other drivers on the road. And all the while, the Model T club members are congratulating themselves on their mechanical expertise...

To a certain degree, the above statement applies to other legacy modes also.

But... and this is an important point... Those other legacy modes are far more popular than AM while being more spectrum efficient.
Just another point of view, but really, why park on 7160 kHz when there is an AM window/meeting place on 7290 kHz?

Just as CW and RTTY are normally found at the low end of our bands, AM traditionally is found at the top end. If the AM'ers like old stuff, why not honor the old convention and stay up in the band where they are expected and leave the other spectrum alone?

Just an opinion.

73 Gary
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KE5JDJ on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
HOW ABOUT, INSTEAD OF DIVISION, WE UNIFY AND LOBBY INTERNATIONALLY FOR MORE BANDWITH FOR EVERYONE ON HF BANDS?
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N3OX on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"AM as a mode of operation is OK, but operating AM is not leading edge or even particularly difficult."

There is no mode where it could be said that simply operating it would be leading edge. Writing a new digi-mode? Sure. And maybe being the first to put two and two together and use a digital mode in a clever way, like this Domino 8 Ex net that KH6TY runs using 2m FM gear.

But operating on AM, SSB, PSK31, Olivia, CW, or whatever is not cutting edge. It's just doing ham radio because you like to do ham radio. The Class E guys are at least using an unusual and very efficient RF amplifier topology in their stations. That's got a lot of technical merit vs. simply talking on the radio.

I'm not lambasting anyone for talking on the radio, I am not a mode innovator. But if you're going to compare **operating AM** to driving a Model T on the freeway, you have to admit that SSB is like doing the same with one of these:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/1933-Ford-Y.jpg

And sure, the Model T has to go a little bit slower, but in the end both guys are driving their restored antiques to the car show. Let's not pretend that using SSB mode makes you more cutting edge or technically inclined than using an AM mode. That ship sailed long ago.

Again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with using these "antiquated" modes to talk to each other. They're actually very good for the types of communications we like to do on the ham bands, and simply doing ham radio and learning about all things radio and electronic in the process is useful to society and technological growth overall. The innovators need motivation, they need beta testers, and they just need someone to talk to.

But if you didn't invent the mode, improve the mode, or use the mode in a new novel way, you are not cutting edge. In that context, SSB is just as much of an antique as AM.

There's enough of 40m that we DXers can share with some AM guys.

73
Dan

 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N3OX on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"If the AM'ers like old stuff, why not honor the old convention and stay up in the band where they are expected and leave the other spectrum alone?
"

But there's a big mess of heterodynes up there still. The upper end of 40m is now a second class band compared to the clear bit.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N3OX on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
By the way, yeah, I know. "heterodynes" a little SSB centric

But relegating AM to the QRMmy portion of 40m isn't fair.

It'd be different if the band were equally useful across the dial.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K9MHZ on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>>>>by WG7X on April 18, 2009
Just another point of view, but really, why park on 7160 kHz when there is an AM window/meeting place on 7290 kHz?<<<<


This is SUCH a stupid, non-issue thread. Also, maybe 40 meter propagation is different here, but I've never even heard an AM station on 7160. They're almost exclusively on 7290 (and 3885, etc) even before and now after the shortwave broadcast stations leaving town.

Geez.....lighten up guys, it's Spring and life's good.

Best,
Brad
K9MHZ

 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W5JO on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Quote N3OX "If the AM'ers like old stuff, why not honor the old convention and stay up in the band where they are expected and leave the other spectrum alone?
"

But there's a big mess of heterodynes up there still. The upper end of 40m is now a second class band compared to the clear bit."

end Quote


Why don't SSB ops all congregate on 7.200 and leave the rest of the spectrum alone? Between 7.160 and 7.290 is just a mess.

AM operation is allowed on any frequency the operator's license class permits. There is no "old convention". My old convention put SSB on 7.295 and 7.205 back in 1955. Why don't you guys go back to that and leave the AM group alone?

Your statements reflect a lack of knowledge of the rules and you are being inconsiderate of other operators who don't operate what you want. Read the rules and try to stop whining. You would feel much better if you did.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KF1Z on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Why stay at 7290, "where we belong.." ??

Because there are groupd os SSB operators who claim those frequencies on a regular basis for their "nets", and 7290 has been deemed the disaster frequency by those same groups.

Now, how does it go?
If the frequency is in use, use a different frequency..?

And speaking of "wanting to do a little DXing..?

Whose says its not at LEAST as much fun for AM DX?


If AMers have traditionally met and operated on only very small chunks of band, it's been by our own will to NOT HAVE THESE STUPID ARGUMENTS OVER WHERE WE CAN OPERATE!!!!

It's very simple, the FCC says we can operate PHONE anywhere our license (class) allows.
If this is SO much of a problem to you, then, by all means petition the FCC to change the rules...
Good luck to you.
It didn't work for CW, it won't work for AM.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N3OX on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Your statements reflect a lack of knowledge of the rules and you are being inconsiderate of other operators who don't operate what you want. Read the rules and try to stop whining. You would feel much better if you did."

Why don't you read the quotation marks and figure out who actually said what you label as whining?

:-)

 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N3OX on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I like how you read my two little short posts and totally ignored my long one, W5JO...

 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W5JO on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I repeat:

Quote N3OX "If the AM'ers like old stuff, why not honor the old convention and stay up in the band where they are expected and leave the other spectrum alone?
"

But there's a big mess of heterodynes up there still. The upper end of 40m is now a second class band compared to the clear bit."

end Quote

This is whining, pure and simple. There is no "Old Convention" You must be new at ham radio, or have a short memory. I would bet you are new at it.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by AB7E on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
W5JO,

Are you just trying to be obtuse? N3OX didn't say anything about "old convention" ... he was quoting someone else. He's tried to tell you that twice and you still don't get it.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K4KYV on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Aren't those who are calling AM "outmoded" and "obsolete", a little like the pot calling the kettle black? SSB dates back almost as early in history as conventional AM. The first SSB communication links were set up for VLF transatlantic telephone circuits in the early 20's. I have in my personal R/9 magazine collection a series of four articles from 1933-34 with theory and construction details of a 75m filter type amateur radio SSB exciter. Some people these days would say that both AM and SSB are obsolete, and that present-day technology mandates that we all change over to some kind of digital voice mode.

If the sole purpose of amateur radio is to transmit as narrow a signal as possible, then phone should be outlawed altogether and we should all be forced to go to CW and PSK. I use AM because it is my preference and I find AM more enjoyable than the space-shuttle sound of most SSB signals. Others use SSB instead of CW/PSK because they find using SSB voice more enjoyable than manipulating a key or tapping keyboard. Who is to say where the arbitrary line should be drawn, amongst the legal modes, between one's operating preference versus the bandwidth of the signal? Why whould it be OK to run SSB even though it takes up more spectrum space than CW, but not be OK to run AM because it takes up more space than SSB?

Why don't AM'ers stay up on the top of the band? Besides the foreign broadcast problem that still renders 7290 kHz useless during most of the afternoon and evening hours, although no-one owns any specific frequency, 7160 kHz has been a popular hanging-out spot for AM'ers dating back at least a couple of decades or more. Plus, if we want to work a little DX on AM, hams in most other countries are not allowed to operate on 7290. Since most of the broadcasters have vacated 7.1-7.2, I have had limited success carrying on meaningful conversations with DX stations, and a couple even switched over to AM and we had a two-way transatlantic AM-to-AM QSO. I can't wait for the 3705 kHz AM crew in Europe to get their rigs tuned up on 40.

Unfortunately, the band has quickly become dominated by the "hello-g'bye, ur five-nine, pse QSL, 73, QRZ?" type of activity from the certificate collectors. The paper collectors pretty much have it tied up in the early evening hours in N America. These are the same people who are griping about AM on 7160. They think they *own* the band when DX propagation is coming through and that everyone else should defer to their interest. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that type of activity; to each his own. But the ham bands are shared by people with a wide variety of interests, and no one interest has priority over all the others.

As I said earlier, one of the problems on 40 is that U.S. amateur mode privileges are far more restricted than those of practically every other country in the world, and we are allowed to use only a fraction of the segment of the band populated by phone stations worldwide. But, still, by observing good operating practices such as listening before transmitting, operating zero beat with the other stations in the QSO, maintaining a clean signal, and not deliberately transmitting on a frequency that is already in use, there is plenty of room on all the bands for everyone's preferred modes of operation, even on 40 metres.


Don k4kvy
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N3OX on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
W5JO says : "You must be new at ham radio, or have a short memory. I would bet you are new at it. "

You must be new at the internet.

 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by RFDANNY on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N0AH really shows his stupidity with this post. Ignore and move on.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K0OEH on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
FACT, YOU ARE NOT GUARANTEED A CLEAR FREQ. ON ANY OF THE HF BANDS. LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT. I HAVE.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by G3LBS on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I won't have to extinguish my spark will I?
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WA1QIX on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
------ QUOTE ---------
But... and this is an important point... Those other legacy modes are far more popular than AM while being more spectrum efficient.
Just another point of view, but really, why park on 7160 kHz when there is an AM window/meeting place on 7290 kHz?

Just as CW and RTTY are normally found at the low end of our bands, AM traditionally is found at the top end. If the AM'ers like old stuff, why not honor the old convention and stay up in the band where they are expected and leave the other spectrum alone?

---------- END QUOTE -----------
I've been using AM continuously since 1971. 7290 is not a usable frequency most of the time. Too many broadcasters (at least here in New England).

I operate AM on 7160. I have worked a number of countries on this frequency, as well as lots of folks on the West coast. It is an historical AM frequency, going back several decades. The broadcasters largely kept many of the AM operators away.

Only on 40 meters is AM at the top end of the band. On 75 meters, most of the AM is found between 3870 to 3885. On 160, 1885 is the popular frequency. On 6 meters, it was 50.4 and I can't remember the 10 meter popular AM frequency. On 20, 14.285 is (or was) where I would find AM. Haven't been on 20 meters is many, many years.

AM QSOs are usually relaxed, roundtable affairs where you can sit back in your "armchair" (armchair copy) and not touch the receiver, sometimes for hours.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W7ETA on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Actually the logic is pretty straight forward.

I don't like AM. Therefor, since it takes up more bandwidth than SSB, and other ops should do what I like, they should not use AM because it takes up too much bandwidth.

If bandwidth determines what mode will be used, why don't we all just use CW or a mode like PSK?

Easy!
I don't like CW and PSK; because CW is far too old to use and PSK requires a computer which doesn't have anything to do with ham radio, they shouldn't be used either.

Bob






 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W5JO on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
You must be new at the internet.


You bet, since 1992. Were you in diapers?
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N3OX on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
W5JO, I'm going to quit trading barbs because I think we've had enough.

I didn't say the things you quoted me as saying. I quoted them from someone else. eHam needs an obvious way of quoting. Other people make it more obvious with callsigns or >>>> or whatever. I just use quotation marks around it. I don't feel like working hard to overcome eHam's deficiency in making quoted text obvious, so I just use

" "

As in, when I quote a thing that N3OX actually said:

"There's enough of 40m that we DXers can share with some AM guys. "

I also wrote several paragraphs defending AM'ers use of whatever frequencies they wanted.

We're on the same side, so back off, maybe read what I actually said, and go work some AM wherever you darn well please.

73
Dan
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by XW1B on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I tend to peruse eHam articles, and comments, more for entertainment than anything else. (hey, I live in the boonies and don't have TV). This has been another that left me shaking my head and so grateful that by op'ing only CW & RTTY I don't have to contend with such things.

Move on to something important Gentlemen

73 Bruce, XW1B
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by XW1B on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I tend to peruse eHam articles, and comments, more for entertainment than anything else. (hey, I live in the boonies and don't have TV). This has been another that left me shaking my head and so grateful that by op'ing only CW & RTTY I don't have to contend with such things.

Move on to something important Gentlemen

73 Bruce, XW1B
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N3OX on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Bruce, it would be hilarious if you showed up on 40m AM :-)

I'm way, way too young to have heard an AM pileup...

Dan
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N7EDK on April 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I'm working 40 meter DX with a FT-817 (5 watts)and a Buddistick vertical,Arizona to Japan.73 de Ed N7EDK
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N4BWV on April 19, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Reply to W9RHE II:

"Mabey (sic) Obama will claim that since AM uses more energy then SSB, that AM contributes to so-called "global warming" and outlaw or tax it out of existence, the same way he wants to "bankrupt" coal fired electricity producers."

There he goes again. President Obama is trying to keep so many balls in the air now that changes to the amateur radio service will never be on his agenda. His plans for conversion to green energy sources includes research into ways to make coal less polluting. The most serious global warming problem now is the hot air generated by W9RHE II.

 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N4BWV on April 19, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The 10 kilohertz DX window on 75 meters seems to be respected by most operators. I just wish it was 2X as wide. Couldn't we do the same thing on 40 meters.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KD5OEI on April 19, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KB0TXC:
I have a 600W mod xfmr I do not plan to use. I believe it is a Stancor A-3899. (specs here http://www.bunkerofdoom.com/xfm/STANCOR_140H_MAY1948_WEB/015.jpg ). I'll even let you have it at the 1948 Stancor catalog price. I wouldn't sell it, but I need the money to buy food for my cats, inlcuding an old lame one-eyed tomcat that lives on my front porch. Send me mail through the system for pics and to discuss.

W9WHE-II:
The bright side is that AM could still be used in the winter without suffering extra cost, substituting the heat for that of the furnace or the old wood-burning stove (this makes me think of a recently discussed pure class-A AM linear amp using four 4-1000's).

KB6QXM:
I agree the technical test is very easy but I disagree that the removal of the CW proficiency requirement has led to bad conditions and un-knowledgeable operators. It's the written exam that is to blame. I've had a FCC general radiotelephone since 1986. That written exam was more difficult that today's ham extra. I got my HF amateur license after CW was eliminated and I'd challenge any ham to a technology Q&A, just for fun. When the CW issue was up for discussion before the FCC, I was one the few advocating a more sincere written test. It was not to replace the proposed deletion of the requirement, but rather to have an incentive to improve the knowledge base. Maybe I am in the minority in my opinions, but CW skill (more exactly, skill on one single mode out of many) has nothing to do with the question of whether hams have enough knowledge to be worthy of their licenses.

http://www.magnetosphere.net/FCC_license_examination_HISTORY2.jpg
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WG7X on April 19, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Yes, SSB is also a legacy mode.

Those who quoted me got it wrong, as so often happens on the internet. I never said or meant to imply that operating SSB is more technically savvy than any other mode. In fact, it is probably the easiest mode to operate on now.

It is just that the AM'ers are trying to imply that they are somehow more technically able than others simply because they need to keep the old boat anchors alive in order to enjoy their hobby niche,

That boat has also sailed. Long ago. Being an expert in forty-to-fifty year old technology is nice, but it puts you in exactly the same boat as the Model T guys.

The east coasters who said that 7290 is "too QRM'y" really made for a chuckle. After all guys, has that not been the case on 40 since OH, I dunno.. about 1946 or so?

QRM has been a big fact of life on forty for a very long time so THAT boat has sailed also.

For me personally, I don't care one way or another about 7160 kHz, but I can say that I've heard more AM traffic there lately than ever before. This is probably a side effect of the clearer band conditions.

Well what with all those old boats sailing, the coast should be clear for some new boats to arrive!

73 All

It's been nice, but not real nice... Last message from here on this.

Gary WG7X

Now back to your regularly scheduled argument.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N2EY on April 19, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
K4KYV writes: "It might be premature to submit any petitions to the FCC at this moment."

I agree 100%! For all the reasons you stated, and one more.

K4KYV: "now is the time to think about the alternatives and their consequences, intended and unintended. We need some kind of coordination of the band plans in all 3 regions to reflect the changes on 40m."

Yes - and the changes in technology, the changes in amateur license demographics, the recent rules changes, etc.

For example, as the Advanced class is phased out, the 'phone subband (in the USA) will be inhabited mostly by Generals and Extras. Getting more relatively-SWBC-free 40 meter space is a big reason (incentive) to upgrade to Extra, and since it's only a 50 question written exam, more and more US hams will do so.

But the Big Thing we hams must do before ANY petitions are submitted is to build up support for whatever changes are proposed. We need to do this FIRST.

Contrary to what many hams believe, the FCC petition process is NOT the place to build support. "Run it up the flagpole and see who salutes it" doesn't work.

When it comes to purely internal Part 97 matters, FCC doesn't want to make hard decisions nor write/revise regulations.

What FCC really wants on such issues is for us hams to present them with a tailor-made proposal that meets all the procedural requirements, addresses all the issues, doesn't cost them resources, and simplifies things. Most of all, FCC wants the comments on such a petition to be overwhelmingly for it.

But we hams don't do that. Instead, we flood FCC with petitions that go nowhere, wasting FCC's time and resources and ticking them off.

For example, consider what happened after the ITU treaty requiring code tests changed back in July 2003. FCC was deluged by a flood of petitions, each of which got an RM number and a comment period. Several of the petitions wanted exactly the same thing (no more code tests) - clear indication of lack of coordination. One group (NCVEC) sent two different petitions!

All those petitions generated thousands of comments, many of them virtually identical. FCC had to wade through all that, produce an NPRM, and in the end came up with a decision that had probably been made back in 1999 if not earlier.

However, it took FCC almost 4 years to do something that could have been done in six months if we hams had our act together.

K4KYV: "The only real problem I am hearing from renegade broadcasters comes from the Horn of Africa."

Remember that a number of exceptions to the no-SWBC-below-7200 rule were written in, so some of those folks may be legal. And of course there are governments who don't give a rip about the regs, and places where there really isn't a government as we know it at all.

73 de Jim, N2EY

 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by G3LBS on April 19, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The main advantage of SSB is that the XYL can't hear what they are saying. Now we need a new mode in which she also can't hear what I am saying.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K7FD on April 19, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I for one actually enjoyed hearing the SW stations on 40m; being a shortave listener before a ham, carriers here and there were sorta fun. I'd stop and listen to the broadcasts for a bit...then tune down and find a qso or two. Sharing the band never seemed to be a big deal...so I'll miss 'em!

73 John K7FD
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WA1QIX on April 19, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
To WG7X:

AM equipment is a WHOLE lot more than boatanchors.

I operate with completely homebrew equipment (yes, even the BC1004 receiver in the background has been completely solid-stated (a rebuild, really)).... and there is not a tube in site in any transmitter or receiver (except for the oscilloscope!). Many others do the same.

In reality, there is probably a certain degree of validity to the "more technically competant" argument about AM operators. I don't know if I've ever heard anyone on SSB talking about their homebrew equipment, where on AM, this is very, very common.

Just an observation.

73

Steve
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KB0TXC on April 19, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KD50EI wrote:

<I have a 600W mod xfmr I do not plan to use. I believe it is a Stancor A-3899. (specs here http://www.bunkerofdoom.com/xfm/STANCOR_140H_MAY1948_WEB/015.jpg ). I'll even let you have it at the 1948 Stancor catalog price. I wouldn't sell it, but I need the money to buy food for my cats, inlcuding an old lame one-eyed tomcat that lives on my front porch. Send me mail through the system for pics and to discuss.>

KB0TXC responds:

I am not sure how to e-mail you from the e-ham forum. My e-mail is amourdutigre@kc.rr.com if you would like to contact me.

Thank you for taking care of animals that no one else wants... I have two "rescue" dogs that no good humans dumped and three kitties that were from a cat orphanage.

Best,

Joe KB0TXC
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by AB2CD on April 19, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The bottom line is that SSB is half the bandwidth and at the same time better quality most of the time because of noise. I see no reason why roundtable groups can't use SSB. If you want to use AM fine, but why in our new AM free portion of 40? Same quality for half the price. Sounds like a good deal to me. Like Clint Eastwood says, "opinions are like....everyone has one" and that's mine.

Jim
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KB1IAI on April 19, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
popcorns done.
tequila anyone??

"RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing? Reply
by GW8JGO on April 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Cw and AM modes are the heritage of hamradio"

Forget to mention that comment. Absolutely right! Heritage Radio is a great term for those activities.

Wouldn't it be great to have a WARC style band just for those modes? Anyone got 50Khz or so spare between 5Mhz and 8Mhz say?

73 Dave."

keep yer phone modes off thirty meters ,
i like it just as it is.

to Bryon "Paul" Veal (N0AH),
do you even know how to neutralise
a 6bj6 pa tube??

73 all
paul kb1iai


 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W7ETA on April 19, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Some people think that the FCC drew the bottom line.

Some people think trying to hide a subjective dislike of AM on 7.160 Mhz is like trying to run away from your shadow.

I don't like RTTY; what a gauwd awful racket!
I don't like PSK—ham radio ain't about computers copying signals!
Simply because I don't like RTTY and PSK doesn't mean other ops shouldn't enjoy those modes. It doesn't matter what I make up to support not liking those modes.

I don't like beets-vile loathsome odious dirt bulbs. SO. I don't buy 'em.

If you don't like AM on 7.160 Mhz, don't xmit AM there.
If you don't like class C amplifiers, don't build a class C amp.
If you don't like contests, don't make a contest Q.
If you don't like the moon, don't work EME.

Next thing you know, some ham will complain about phone in their CW portion of 40 meters and then some ham will complain about CW in their 40 meter phone band.

Bob

PS: don't send a RTTY pix of beets to me!
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by NB3O on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"neutralise a 6bj6 pa tube?? "

Didn't you mean neutralize a 6JB6?
(Mine did not hold up very well after running "X-AM" on the Drake T4X).
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by PULLRAFTT on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
40 meters is fun to listen to. About as much fun as reading this flame war of an article! Gotta love it!
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by SSBER on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The beauty of AM is that non amateurs with shortwave receivers can listen in. I always did as a child growing up in appalachia.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by PULLRAFTT on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Yes I enjoyed it too as a youngster, but I would NOT let my child listen to it now....
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KC8RWR on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Pete , Known to hate kilowatt amps , wide(armchair copy old man)SSB and ILRP"

What's ILRP? Is it anything like IRLP?
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KC8RWR on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Now we have a bunch of appliance operators that do not know the difference between reactance and resistance."

No, I'm pretty sure I remember a question being asked about that when I took my General test last summer. I couldn't tell you if it was on my tech test as I took that 8 years ago but I would have been happy to explain the different to you even well before then. Maybe someday I'll even learn code. First I intend to finish buildig my SSB transmitter.

I suppose one could just memorize the answers and not understand anything but how is this new?

I think anyone who doesn't realize that the tests still keep ham radio filled with people whom are considerably more technically knowledgable (at least in rf) than the general population probably needs to get out and actually have a conversation with a few more non-hams.

Also, everyone has to start somewhere. Ham radio is an excelent tool to encourage people to become more knowledgable. If they all start out qualified electrical engineers, what's the point? It's just a place to talk if you already know it all... get a cellphone.

I suppose one could argue that VHF+ is for the beginners and HF should be exclusive for the most knowledgable but consider this...

If someone is looking for easier, entry level projects to work on what frequencies would be best? Keep it above 30Mhz? Let them try to build a stable oscillator for 2-meter? Maybe microwave would be good, they can see the frequncy change every time they breathe on it... come on!
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KC8RWR on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
If this article was written as a reverse psychology method of encouraging AM operation then the author is a GENIUS!
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W9WHE-II on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
G3LBS writes:

"I won't have to extinguish my spark will I"

Yes Gilbert, I am afraid that you will.
A by product of that spark is CO2, which as Al Gore has proclaimed, is giving the planet "a fever". No more spark.

 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W9WHE-II on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N4BWV writes:

"His [Obama's] plans for conversion to green energy sources includes research into ways to make coal less polluting".

NONSENSE. There is no such thing as "clean coal". That is why Obama wants to "Bankrupt" (Obama's word, not mine)the coal indistry. Nuclear power is the only clean alternitive. Moreover, it has already been settled that each new "green job" kills 2 ordinary jobs.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W9WHE-II on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KD5 OEI writes:

"The bright side is that AM could still be used in the winter without suffering extra cost, substituting the heat for that of the furnace or the old wood-burning stove (this makes me think of a recently discussed pure class-A AM linear amp using four 4-1000's)"

But under his majesty's cap and trade program, the electricity will cost TWICE as much! Your electricity bill will double! NOW THAT'S CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN!
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KC9EOT on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
No................its trolling
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K9IUQ on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
To
W9WHE-II:

Go Watch Fox News Network or turn on Limbaugh or Hannity on the radio.You will feel better.

Get a Life.And
Get over it - the Republicans LOST big..............

Stan K9IUQ
LMAO
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W9WHE-II on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Another member of the intollerant left has spoken!

HOW DARE I utter an opinion that is not official dogma of the far left. I guess the 1st Amendment only applies to "politically acceptable" speech.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by AB9PM on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Remember Gentlemen, if not for the f*** ups of the Bush administration, Obama would not be possible. Republicans go look in your own mirrors, you created Obama. Next time you are in office, run the country and think about everyone in the country, not just the rich.

Back to radio, anyone should be able to use any mode of operation that is legal on that frequency and under your license. QRM is a normal everyday event in amateur radio since whenever. Good operating practice is in keeping your proper bandwidth away from another station. I enjoy listening to the am crowd as well as the ssb crowd. Contesters running excessive modulation are a bigger problem than the am group, splattering all over the place. There is room for all. Quit fighting!

Dave
AB9PM
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N4BWV on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
To
W9WHE-II:

Go Watch Fox News Network or turn on Limbaugh or Hannity on the radio.You will feel better.

Get a Life.And
Get over it - the Republicans LOST big..............

 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W9WHE-II on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
One more member of the angry, intollerant left speaks!
What is the matter Don, couldn't think of anything ORIGINAL, so you copied and pasted K9IUQ's comments? No independant thoughts of your own?




 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K9IUQ on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>>>>>"One more member of the angry, "

ANGRY, Hmmmm, maybe you should look in the mirror...
You are the angry one, the only ham that constantly brings politics into a ham discussion.

Stan K9IUQ


 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N9VR on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"this pristine allocation on 40M SSB for true DX gray-line to gray-line is going to be junked for AM’ers using their modified CB gear."

Wow, pretty strong statement.

In the quote above; replace SSB with Phone and the problem is solved! I would also love to be able to modify an old Tram D201 to 40 meters, hi hi.

Bill / N9VR
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KB1IAI on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
nother batch of popcorn.
goin fer the burbon.

"RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing? Reply
by NB3O on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"neutralise a 6bj6 pa tube?? "

Didn't you mean neutralize a 6JB6?
(Mine did not hold up very well after running "X-AM" on the Drake T4X). "

quite right om, i get dyslexic at times :-}

my 101E likes 'm just fine hihi
73 paul kb1iai
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by ZL4IV on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Well since the bradcasters have moved I put up a 5 element beam for long path over the south pole. Now I enjoy working those stations in Europe that have not worked a ZL in years. Then there are the guys from CONUS that are also delighted to work DX again on this band.5/9 is not DX, 4/3 is what it is all about, using all your skill to pull modest stations out of the noise and confirm the contact. To encourage the new guys to improve their setup, remembering that I was 'green' once. Yes I have huge pile ups but I like to work that little voice calling in the distance. Thats what it's all about. Almost without exception I find most older 'Hams' polite and and courtious when I am working weak stations. Some guys can only afford a vertical and a modest radio, they are also part of the community that need to be heard and encouraged.
Thats what I have been doing, sharing the band with others.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N0AH on April 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
175 posts and counting!!!! Hey, what does that FM button do? ahahahahaha!
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by GW8JGO on April 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
@KB1IAI

"keep yer phone modes off thirty meters ,
i like it just as it is"

I agree. I wasn't suggesting 30m at all. I was, however, inspired by the 30m WARC model - that is another WARC allocation somewhere for AM. Sorry if that was not clear to you.

73 Dave.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KC4IWI on April 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Sooooo many Hams with too much time on their hands ... well back to 20M
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KB9BVN on April 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
All I know is this, I have had a blast working CW between 7100 and 7125 since the SWBC's guys left town. I run QRP and it's been very pleasant to hang out in the former novice section of 40m.

 
CW in the old Novice band  
by N8YX on April 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"All I know is this, I have had a blast working CW between 7100 and 7125 since the SWBC's guys left town. I run QRP and it's been very pleasant to hang out in the former novice section of 40m."

I've been listening on and off in that band segment for a couple weeks now...nice to hear people using the spot at night.

May answer a CQ when heard...
 
RE: CW in the old Novice band  
by K4KYV on April 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"To
W9WHE-II:

Go Watch Fox News Network or turn on Limbaugh or Hannity on the radio.You will feel better.

Get a Life.And
Get over it - the Republicans LOST big.............."




Now what, in the longest possible stretch of one's imagination, do Fox, Limbaugh, Hannity, republicans, democrats, liberals, conservatives, Bush or Obama have to do with the topic of this thread: amateur radio operation in the 40m band?

To get back on topic, what is special about operating CW in the old Novice band, other than the fact that we are at least using that spectrum, limited to one of the choices of modes US hams are allowed? When the band is open for DX throughout prime evening hours, you still have to deal with foreign SSB QRM, and starting at 0300 GMT until fade-out a few hours later, you still have Radio Ethiopia broadcasting on 7110.

Later on in the wee hours of the morning another broadcaster pops up on 7125, but their modulation percentage is so low that I have never been able to catch a station ID. They are French speaking and sound like somewhere in West Africa.

If US phone stations could work at least down to 7100, there would be a little less congestion on 7125-7200, making it easier for those of us wishing to participate in facets of phone operation beyond meaningless "hello-g'bye ur five-nine pse QSL 73 QRZ?" style so-called "QSO's".

I enjoy working phone DX on the rare occasions when I can actually engage in a few minutes of real conversation and get to know the operator at the other end. I have zero interest in QSL cards or wall certificates.
 
RE: CW in the old Novice band  
by PULLRAFTT on April 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
you guys are so funny! I've never seen a thread go so far off track. LOL!! LMAO!
 
RE: AM causes global warming.  
by W9WHE-II on April 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
K4KYV writes:

"Now what, in the longest possible stretch of one's imagination, do Fox, Limbaugh, Hannity, republicans, democrats, liberals, conservatives, Bush or Obama have to do with the topic of this thread: amateur radio operation in the 40m band".

Simple as 1, 2, 3.

1) Consumption of electricity involves burning of fossil fuels, which release so-called "greenhouse gasses" which in turn cause (Obama says) so-called "global warming";

2) Since AM uses FAR more energy and produces FAR more heat, AM is responsible for causing so-called "global warming".

3) Use of AM equipment causes so-called "global warming" and therefore must be banned in order to save the planet!

All you liberals that believe in the scam known as "global warming" must now agree to outlaw AM. How much more clear can it be? The matter has "allready been decided". To deny that AM causes global warming is to be a "denier".


 
RE: AM causes global warming.  
by W1RKW on April 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I HAM, therefore I A.M.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N7UQA on April 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N0AH >> "is going to be junked for AM’ers using their modified CB gear"

Please let us all know how to convert a 27mhz CB radio to 40 mter Am??

Some time ago I was searching for a QRP 40 meter radio. I eventually came across a QRP 40 meter radio that was, eventually, a 40 meter version of the CBS-1000 CB radio (same case, knobs, etc). I have tried to find the radio to give a link here but have been unable to find it. It covered the 40 meter band and had all mode capability (AM, FM, SSB, CW) 12 watts output.


And of course, Chinese made....
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KA5KBM on April 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
i enjoy both sideband and am on 40, if anything needs to removed from 40 (and other bands), it's 90% of the contests! get rid of the contests and there's plenty of room for everyone, am and ssb....when i am using the am mode i am using a modified rice box putting out a whopping 20watts to a g5rv....who am i hurting with my a-m activities?
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W4ARZ on April 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
It never fails. Reading comments like these reminds me of a parent having to deal with a bunch of kids. mommy mommy he's sitting in my spot.....
Doesn't suprise me at all that the Fed and the FCC would like to use the ham bands for commercial & other uses....the chatter would certainly stop then.
Now go play nice boys !
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N3OX on April 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Well, I don't know about anyone else but 7160kHz is pretty much useless here with some bizarre noise.

So I don't care one bit what sort of ham communication goes on there... I can't use it :-)

 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KB0TXC on April 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
W4ARZ wrote:

<It never fails. Reading comments like these reminds me of a parent having to deal with a bunch of kids. mommy mommy he's sitting in my spot.....

Now go play nice boys ! >

KB0TXC responds:

Well with this analogy, who (pray tell) gets the lovely job of changing diapers (er, maybe depends)?

Best and most definitely 73!

Joe KB0TXC

 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by NY4D on April 23, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Is this really an issue at all? All that has changed is most broadcasters are gone from a segment of the 40 meter band.

It's really a cause for celebration. All of a sudden I'm working DX where before there was a wasteland of heterodynes and AM BC splatter.

QRM happens on every band. Why should 40 meters be any different? Mode doesn't have anything to do with it. Operators do. There's no easy fix for that.

And changing propagation modes and paths also contribute a bit. Here in the mornings on 40 I am hearing stations 350 miles away at the same time as JAs and VKs. Which tells me most likely I have E and F skip at the same time. Under conditions like that QRM will happen. Not everyone is going to have the same propagation as you or me.

I'm not condoning poor operating practices or frequency hogging. But let's get real, that isn't limited to one particular mode.






 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KC9EOT on April 23, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Yeah the republicans lost, you voted for what you got but wait nothing has changed except we are heading the wrong way.....not that we were heading the right way before, now its just another way
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N4KC on April 23, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Well said, NY4D. Now, I just wish the IARU would renegotiate the treaty with the generators of QRN!

By the way, yachet IS actually an acceptable spelling of the word "yacht." Who knew?

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com
www.n4kc.blogspot.com
(An open blog dedicated to rapid technological change and its
effect on society, media and amateur radio)
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KC9EOT on April 23, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
well not really all of 40 meter. Part 97 references what is considered good radio practice and using all of 40 meters is not good radio practice, then again below 7.125 is not voice mode type stuff either so you wouldnt want to transmit AM down there however as far as SSB is concerned and contrary to the view of wome old timers, you do not own a spot on the band regardless of how long you have used it. If another station is using a segment you wish to use for your net you have to options, 1 is wait until they are done and the other more appropriate is move up or down a little. Transmitting over a qso already using a spot you think you have a right to is not legal. AMers are part of the radio groupd and have every bit as much right to the area they are talking in as anyone else.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K1DA on April 23, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Most of these "SSB sounds bad" coments are from people who don't own a good ssb receiver and who have a bias they need to justify. I did a few simple modifications (published in QST) to an inexpensive
ICOM 728 transceiver which make it a pleasure to listen to. Getting the agc time constants in the various stages to line up, a hang agc and some bigger caps in the audio stage and this inexpensive radio reveals how good and natural many ssb radios can sound. BTW before you "I have the best audio ears in the world" types start in, my son and I rebuild old stereo gear and speakers as a hobby. I have a good idea what low distortion audio sounds like and I am not talking about "ESS" or whatever that is either.
SO spare us the ssb cheap shots, those of us with a radio made AFTER 1985 or so know better. (I collect and restore S lines and Drake gear as well, if you want to know the specifics of making the older stuff sound decent, it's out there and most of the problems result from designers attempting to get a little "audio selectivity" to add to the filter systems of the time)

I get a kick out of the AM complaint about what the "upper part of 40" sounds like -- hetrodynes!! from WHAT?? AM.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by VE3ELL on April 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I have really enjoyed working this band also.It is great to have a conversation with EU and not work split.I have had great reports just using 100W and a vertical antenna.There are suggested band use graphs but some people are just not user friendly at all and operate on whatever part of the band they choose.There are not as many on the air as in the past but still there are a few which make it difficult for others,especially the ones with limited antenna space like myself.We got it all back so why not share it properly.

Russ VE3ELL
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W1RKW on April 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
No wonder the bands seem dead. Everyone is here. Think I'll go play radio. Glad I got that out of my system.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KB9WIS on April 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
What's the big deal..? AMers using 6khz bandwidth, so what. They generally stay on the same frequency, it's you that QSYs near them. It is SSB operators that provide the most QRM to AM nets. Everyone knows the standard frequencies of AM operators(which is generally only 10khz of a whole band segment), why not just operate elsewhere?

Many AMers know more than 90% of SSBers will ever know about the hobby. One must remember, that CW and AM is where Ham Radio originated from, not SSB.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W1IT on April 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Pity we could not have oulawed AM years ago or perhaps legally confined it to 160 meters.
Old Buzzard gear belongs in a museum not on the air.
And, yes some AM can sit on 15 khz of spectrum at one time. The over all audio quality many of its proponents insist is true and superior to SSB is as phoney as the easter rabbit.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K4KYV on April 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
W1IT: "Pity we could not have oulawed AM years ago or perhaps legally confined it to 160 meters.
Old Buzzard gear belongs in a museum not on the air.
And, yes some AM can sit on 15 khz of spectrum at one time. The over all audio quality many of its proponents insist is true and superior to SSB is as phoney as the easter rabbit."

Yeah, to make a little more room for a few more appliance operators to run their expensive boxes, give phony five-nine signal reports with their space-shuttle audio or else beat their gums about nothing as they describe in detail the results of their latest colonoscopy (assuming their rig is not in transit to or from the factory for repairs).

At least those who use that old buzzard gear, if they didn't build it themselves, know how to repair it when it breaks, and actually learn something in the process. And it's not all antique gear; many of the home-brew rigs on the air use modern day solid state technology.

The AM community is one of the last bastions of genuine amateur radio left on the air.

Don k4kyv
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KC9NCS on April 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"My thought is that AM is obsolete in the currently crowded bandspace and should be banned due to the many new amateurs joining our ranks. Either that or make a full court press to expand our frequency allocations...As this will not occur, AM should be banned and the manufacturers should be mandated to eliminate the mode from their newly manufactured gear."


With all due respect as a still relatively new HAM, I have both "old" and "new" equipment that I enjoy using which means I enjoy both AM and SSB operations.

I have modern Kenwood equipment with full filtering and DSP capabilities for Sideband operations, and I have older Yaesu tube-based transceivers that I've re-built for AM use as well.

Why would any manufacturer limit their options and prospective buying audience by eliminating a mode of operation from their equipment simply because some Ham's think it uses too much bandwidth? Using that argument let's just eliminate FM operations (which I also happen to enjoy) as well!

At the end of the day "Old School is Cool" and I enjoy all modes, including AM. Some of the Ham's I've learned the most from are the "old school" Ham's of the 60's who continue to this day to use AM and their old equipment. Good on them, I say.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N4KC on April 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
W1IT: I agree! AM is old, so let's get rid of it. It whines, it squeaks, and I'll take your word for it that it takes 15 kHz, though I confess I've never...in 46 years as a ham...heard such a thing.

Still, it's old. That's enough for W1IT and me.

Gotta go!

FM is old, too. Chuck it! Takes too much of 10 and 6 meters. A fellow can hardly find an open frequency on either for a good SSB contact. Lose it.

RTTY? Old! Outlaw it. You even have to buy more stuff to copy what those old-timers are chirping back and forth. If Japanese manufacturers don't put a knob on the radio for it, it ain't worth keeping.

Kill it!

All those other digital modes? They're getting pretty long in the tooth, too, by now. Listening FCC? Ban 'em!

How about CW? Goodness gracious! That stuff is O - L - D! Make it illegal N - O - W!

Slow scan TV. Give me a break! Ancient stuff. Not even in high def. Make a law. It's gone, and we get a slice of 20 meters back on Saturday mornings.

Single Sideband. Oh. Wait. I know, it is old, from the '40s. The 1940s. But you know what. W1IT likes to operate SSB. We'll keep it around.

In fact, that will be the criteria for which modes get outlawed. If W1IT likes it, it stays. If he thinks it is too old to keep, we'll dash off a petition to the FCC and put it out of its misery.

Hey, I just thought of something. I'm getting pretty old myself.

Gee, I sure hope W1IT likes me!

73,

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com
www.n4kc.blogspot.om
(An open blog dedicated to rapid techological change and its effect
on society, media, an amateur radi)



 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N6NKN on April 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
While we're getting rid of old stuff, lets get rid of the old hams on hf. Any ham licensed from 1980 to 1990 should be limited to 2 meters. Anyone licensed before 1980 should be given two tin cans and some string. That should leave lots of room on 40 meters for the rest of us.

Rick N6NKN
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N4BWV on April 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Reply to N6NKN:

I like the concept. My preference would be to give the two cans and a string to the new generals who attained that status because the code requirement was dropped. Those that didn't pass the 13 wpm requirement can have 2 meters.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by G3LBS on April 27, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Could I have a hearing aid with the cans please?
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KV1M on April 27, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Perhaps W1IT and N0AH would be so kind as to not renew their tickets?

After all they are getting pretty old around here.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by G3LBS on April 27, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Crikey - is Noah on this site then - is he maritime mobile?
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KV1M on April 27, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
W9WHE unthinkingly spews:
"All you liberals that believe in the scam known as "global warming" must now agree to outlaw AM. How much more clear can it be? The matter has "allready(sic) been decided". To deny that AM causes global warming is to be a "denier"."

Sorry station. You fail.
Mine run off batteries and are charge by carbon free sources.

Try again.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by AF9J on April 27, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Quote KB0TXC: "This article has inspired me. Does anyone know where I can find a center tapped plate modulation transformer that can handle 500 watts audio? Not too concerned with make or whatever. I will have a radio expert help me design a transmitter around it. Methinks that a project might be in the works sooner than later."

Hi Joe, try the guys on AMfone.net. Most of them know where to get one. Some of them might even have a spare one they're willing to sell.

With regards to AM - like the other's I feel the OP's post is a troll or a lame diatribe. I do AM. I also contest, and do SSB & CW. What'll be the next complaint? - "all vintage SSB rigs should be banned, because they're not up to the same standards bandwidth and spectral puritywise (remember, back when harmonics only had to be suppressed by 30dB) of today's rigs?" "Tube and Hybrid rigs should be banned because their more involved adjustment/tune-up for transmit and receive, and analog dials make them more susuceptible to operator error from today's Radio Amateurs?" When does it end? This is just plain silly. It's as though common sense has become obsolete.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KG4GLI on April 27, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
What you are failing to realize is that SSB is AM. It is just the upper part and the lower part of the AM Band. Go back and look at you have booklet and see for yourself. Also Phone is not the only mode of operation. There is RTTY, USB,LSB,AM,FM and so on. I really love CW.
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W1IT on April 28, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Legacy modes suuch as AM are very expensive in terms of bandwidth and contribute nothing new technically or in fidelity in amateur communications.

Many of the older rigs on 75 especially drift and are unstable. One can hear the Am ers-Jmammers, drifting slowing up and down the band playing follow the bouncing carrier. My suggestion is no more AM unless it is on top band 160 meters, where the potential for long distance and especially international interference is minimized.

NTSC TV will die in June RIP and so should its sister Ancient Modulation.
This is not met to be a trolling post, rather an honest assessment of an old buzzard mode.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N7DCR on April 28, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
If someone does not like AM,then they are entitled to express that.If you like to use that mode,that's okay too.I see no real reason to trash one for their opinion.Personally,I don't use or like AM.Wasted bandwith and power.My older rig does not have this mode.My newer one does.Some like CW,some hate it.There is no right or wrong here,just the way one chooses to sees it.To each their own.Enjoy any and all modes and let others do the same.Does everyone have to run the same rig and use the same antenna?..Thank God we don't all think the same!..73.N7DCR.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N3OX on April 28, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"NTSC TV will die in June RIP and so should its sister Ancient Modulation.
This is not met to be a trolling post, rather an honest assessment of an old buzzard mode"

SSB is also an old buzzard. I said enough on that somewhere up there ^^^



 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N6XA on April 29, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Personally, I think we should consider how the band is allocated both by mode and power. We should listen to what others have to say both at home and around the world.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K4KYV on April 29, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Regarding AM vs SSB, I have noticed over the years that the bandwidth of the signal tends to somehow be directly proportional to the mindwidth of the operator.

If the sole purpose of amateur radio is to transmit as narrow a signal as possible, then let's limit everyone to CW or PSK. Why should some arbitrary line be drawn that says it is OK to run SSB, when it takes up enough space in the band for 5 CW QSO's, but not OK to run AM because it takes up the space of two SSB signals?

I run AM for exactly the same reason you may run SSB. I enjoy AM operation more than SSB operation, just as you run SSB instead of CW because you find SSB more enjoyable than CW.

Not like any kind of urgent or even important communication is being carried on, except maybe during a declared emergency. It's just a hobby. Whoever said a HOBBY has to be "efficient"?

According to the international ITU regulations, communication between amateur radio stations is defined as "communications limited to messages having to do with experiments and remarks of a private nature for which, by reason of their unimportance, there would be no question of resorting to the public telecommunications services".

In other words, amateur radio conversations are defined as drivel, and your on-the-air drivel is no more "important" than mine.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WA2JJH on April 30, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Over 25 years ago, I remember 40M as more civil. As a new Novice, I racked up 40 states in a few months on 40M CW. The 75Watt input to final limit got lifted a few months later.

I never have a problem with Hams using AM on 40 or 80M. Most of them are not using a large enough audio power amp to PLATE MODULATE thier transmitters to even 75% modulation. The new rigs will produce 100% mod. However at 40W carrier max??????
I just kick in my 1.8khz SSB filter. Adjust IF shift or PBT with notch. They are ALL gone!
I do like to listen to them. Racks of tubes. All homemade. They descibe all the blood sweat and tears in their boat anchors.

Shucks, all of you that purchased the $3000+ DSP rigs!!!!!!! AM HAMS bother you????!!!!!

I do admit these days, the ultra high power BDCSTERS make ANY voice contact impossible at night. However, they are all going to Ku band sat...no?

What am I doing.....you ask? Wpndering WTF I am on EHAM. I am in Pattaya bech Thialand on a vacation. Perhaps I will find a nice Harris or Gates 25KW HPA when I get back to NYC(HI-HI)

NO HF RADIO allowed. VOIP. is not ham radio! No reciprocal lic deal. I recommend Pattaya, before getting married. TALLY -HO! N 73 DE MIKE WA2JJH
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by AF9J on April 30, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
W1IT Stated: "Many of the older (AM) rigs on 75 especially drift and are unstable. One can hear the Am ers-Jmammers, drifting slowing up and down the band playing follow the bouncing carrier. My suggestion is no more AM unless it is on top band 160 meters, where the potential for long distance and especially international interference is minimized."

Ummmmm that's kind of an unfair generalization. Many AM transmitters are crystal controlled, so drift is a moot point. Also, most older VFOed rigs will settle down frequency drift-wise, once the the VFO has had some time to thermally stabilize. AND, this "drifty rig" argument can also be used for many older, non-synthesized SSB radios. They didn't call the Swan 350 the "Swan 3 Drifty" for nothing. But even the Swan 350 settles down driftwise after a while. So since the "drifty AM rigs" should be forced to stay on 160 in your opinion, should this alse be the case for the "drifty" SSB rigs? I'm sure many if not most operators of vintage SSB gear (including me, since besides AM gear, I also happen to own vintage SSB gear), would NOT appreciate this one bit (especially since most of these rigs don't do 160). Also, putting AMers on 160 to "minimize any oong distance interference" is kind of asinine IMO. It's like creating a ghetto. Besides some AMers love to work DX. Not everybody can afford, or wants to use the latest and the greatest rigs. If you exercise decent operating skills, drift issues should be a non-issue for older rigs. I've been licensed for 31 years, and active for 27 years (with 15 of those years as an Extra). I'm disappointed with the nastiness that has resurfaced in recent years towards AM. What ever happened to live and let live? When I was younger (long before I did AM), and we heard an AMer, the most we thought was "an AMer. Hmmmm, whatever."
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N4KC on April 30, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
K4KYV is my hero! Very, very well said!

If you missed his post, scroll back up a few and read it.

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com
www.n4kc.blogspot.com
(An open blog dedicated to rapid technological change and its
effect on society, media and amateur radio)
 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by KG4GLI on April 30, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Most of you are still failing to understand, that SSB and AM is the same thing. You are just on the upperside of AM or the lower side of AM. AM stands for Amplitude Modulation. FM is Freq Modulation. Read your book. All you really dealing with is band space. Most hams operate at 2.4 mhrz wide. AM may be a little wider just use what filter you have. If he is you band pass be courteous and move down a few kiloherts.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W9WHE-II on May 1, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Liberal, global warming math:



1) AM uses too much electrical enegery.
2) Therefore, AM causes global warming.
3) We must outlaw AM.

No debate. No discussion. The matter has already been decided. Now the socialist-in-chief will TAX you AM gear to death to pay for his pork-barrel spending.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WA2JJH on May 1, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Tube AM rigs have a very special charm to some. If you can build a 2 transistor CW TX, I got an AM/DSB modulator That uses 1 chip and a few transistors.

Instead of the knee jerk response of death to AM/vestigial sideband, use you noodle. Design or DSP an AM enhancer/SSB interence reducer.

Drake did it in 1977 with the TR-7. Great sounding, 100% mod. AM compressed into less than 4KCS!!!! The TR-7 AM sounds as good as 100%
plate mod. It is also very clean and rejects some SSB QRM
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by K4KYV on May 1, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The problem with the AM mode that comes with the Drake TR-7 is that it transmits only one sideband plus carrier. That is not the same thing as conventional AM, but SSB with poor carrier suppression, and inherently comes through distorted on a conventional envelope AM detector. This distortion, known as quadrature distortion, exists not because of any deficiency in the TR-7, but as a result of basic fundamentals of the modulation process.

However, the transmitted carrier may serve as a reference for the receiver BFO to lock onto, and the result can be nearly indistinguishable from full carrier AM. This requires a synchronous detector at the receiver, which contains a phase locked loop designed to lock the local BFO onto the transmitted carrier. I use a Sherwood SE-3 synchronous detector with my Collins 75A-4 receiver, and I have heard SSB+carrier signals that sounded just as good as full carrier AM received with an envelope detector.

You don't have to transmit full carrier; the carrier may be reduced by as much as 20 dB and the PLL will still lock. This would be a worthwhile improvement for the ESSB crew to consider. Instead of totally suppressing the carrier, reduce it to about 20 dB below p.e.p., and use a synchronous detector at the receiver. This is commonly done with commercial point-to-piont radiotelephone links; the reduced carrier is referred to as the "pilot carrier". This completely eliminates the tuning error that is practically inevitable with SSB suppressed carrier, but retains the power advantage of suppressed carrier emissions over full carrier.

For more information on the Sherwood synchronous detector, check out their ad in any recent issue of Electric Radio magazine.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by WA2JJH on May 1, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I know about only 1 sideband is transmitted. The TR-7 uses the 2.3KC filter on TX nd RX. The roofing filter also is far more narrow than most rigs today.
This is why the tr-7, never bothered with FM as well. The 1st IF was 1/2 the width of a rig that did have FM

All the later (sn 3000+)TR-7's had the synchonus detector built in standard. The trick Drake did use was to make a carbon copy of the sideband that could squeeze in.( You end up ith your original 2.3khz wide signal before the demod. The audio amp stage did a few EQ tricks.
The audio from the created carbon copy are used to control the AGC and emphasis audio above 1.8kc in the audio preamp stage.
The TR-7 also uses a much larger audio chip and loud speaker. The LM2002 could output 3W+ into 4 ohms.

Check out the Drake Museum. One has to replace a few eletrolytics to really be impressed.

All the add in filters are in the 2nd IF and are only used on RX. The 4KC filter was sweat!!!.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W9WHE-II on May 5, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Tube type AM radios in general and AM specifically as a mode, use HUGE amounts of electricity!
They require the burning of planet-killing fossel fuels, which release greenhouse gases (CO2) that cause global warming. (AM = Global warming). The debate is over. There is no more debate. Anyone that disagrees is a "global warming denier".

As part of president Obamanation's cap-and-trade plan, AM transmitters will be TAXED. Use of the AM mode will be TAXED. USE of TAXED AM transmitters, as planet-killing devices, wil be strictly regulated by the EPA due to the release of the enviormentally hazzardous gas known as CO2.

The Obamanation administration will use this relationship (AM = Global warming) to shut down AM radio stations and silence conservative talk radio. Soon, the only thing left on 40 Meter AM will be Glen Baxter, K1MAN, who will be issued a special permit by Obamanation's soon to be discovered tax cheat FCC commission nominee.

 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N4BWV on May 5, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
W9WHE, I hope you are in treatment.
 
RE: 40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by W9WHE-II on May 5, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
So....when praactionners of Al Gore's global warming religion use his unproven and contraversial theories to force a "cap and trade" tax on the Americal people, that is OK. But, if someone applies the same GOOFY, unproven principals to something you liberals like, then its crazy.

Ahhhh. I get it. We all get it. More liberal hypocracy.
 
RE: eco green cooks!  
by W9WHE-II on May 5, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KV1M writes:

"Mine [station] runs off batteries and are charge by carbon free sources"

Niaeve eco types never cease to amaze me.
I suppose that the truck that delivered your batteries and solar pannels to the store all ran on solar power? The car you drove to pick up the batteries and pannels ran exclusively on electricity? The manufacturers of the car, batteries, trucks and pannels ran exclusively on solar power? And when you need new batteris, the recycling station will run on what.....eco green pixie dust?


Sheesh!
 
RE: eco green cooks!  
by K1OU on May 5, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
W9WHE,

Keep blabbering and crying like a teenaged girl that just got dumped by your boyfriend.

You, and people like you, will ensure another Democratic victory in '12.

Republicans....the party of no. No new ideas, no support, and no hope.
 
RE: eco green cooks!  
by W9WHE-II on May 6, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Q: Know when you are winning an intellectual argument with a liberal?

A: When they start attacking you personally.

 
RE: eco green cooks!  
by K1OU on May 6, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Know how you have defeated W9WHE?

He claims that you are personally attacking him.

 
40 Meters -- What Are You Doing?  
by N0AH on May 6, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
It just took me a solid hour and a half to read all of these posts- Awesome!!!!!!!! Maybe we might get going on a 40M bandplan now-
 
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