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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA

Dave Garner (K4YRK) on May 20, 2009
Website: www.vhfhamradio.com
View comments about this article!

One second after……

One second after what, you may ask? The answer to this question is in the form of a new novel by William R. Forstchen, “One Second After”. I finished reading this best selling novel a few weeks ago and it has caused me to consider my own family survival if the situation that the novel describes takes place in our country.

The novel describes an Electro Magnetic Pulse attack on our country, and the resulting break down of government, society, and all support measures that we currently depend upon.

EMP is shorthand for Electro Magnetic Pulse. It is a rather unusual and frightening by-product when a nuclear bomb is detonated above the earth's atmosphere. We all know that our atmosphere and the magnetic field which surrounds our planet is a thin layer which not only keeps us alive, but also protects us from dangerous radiation from the sun. On a fairly regular basis there are huge solar storms on the sun's surface which emit powerful jets of deadly radiation. If not for the protective layer of our atmosphere and magnetic field, those storms would fry us. At times though, the storm is so power that enough disruptive energy reaches the earth's surface that it drowns out radio waves and even shorts electrical power grids. . .this happened several years back in Canada.

View the detonation of a nuclear bomb, two hundred miles straight up as the same thing, but infinitely more powerful since it is so close by.

As the bomb explodes it emits a powerful wave of gamma rays. As this energy release hits the upper atmosphere it creates an electrical disturbance known as the Compton Effect. The intensity is magnified. View it as a small pebble rolling down a slope, hitting a larger one, setting that in motion, until finally you have an avalanche.

At the speed of light this disturbance races to the earth surface. It is not something you can see or hear, in the same way you don't feel the electrical disturbance in the atmosphere during a large solar storm. 1

For all electrical systems though, it is deadly. As ham operators and potential emergency responders this represents a huge threat for our mission as communicators in a time of emergency. Any solid state radio hooked to an antenna or even to the AC power line would most likely be fried. This EMP effect would also disable all telephone systems, cell phones, and the entire electricity power grid system. Almost all vehicles made since 1980 would suffer damage to the electrical system and computer control vehicle engine systems. Even more dire, any civilian airplane in the air at the time of the EMP wave would most likely crash due to loss of all electrical control systems.

One second after such an attack, we as a country would be set back to conditions similar to the mid 1850's in a society not able to cope without modern support systems.

Unlike a lightning strike, or other power surge, an EMP surge is “front loaded.” Meaning it doesn't do a build up for a couple of micro-seconds, allowing enough time for the circuit breaker to “read” that trouble is on the way and shut down. It comes instead like a wall of energy, without any advance wave building up as a warning. It therefore slams through nearly all commercial and even military surge protectors already in place, and is past the “safety barrier” and into the delicate electronics before the system has time to react. 2

Such an attack could be carried out fairly easy by a rogue nation or terrorist group with just two or three very small nuclear warheads exploded above our atmosphere by a small rocket such as North Korea and Iran currently have. The threat is very real and could be carried out by these groups now or in the near future. We as a country are not prepared for this type of attack. Our military and some government sites are hardened for this but the civilian side of life, for the most part, is totally unprotected for this.

What can we do as individuals to protect ourselves and families and also as ham operators our equipment and ability to get on the air to handle emergency communications? I have been researching the Internet for information on EMP and steps you can take to protect yourself and electronic equipment. I have also consulted with several hams, who are retired military and industry experts who have done extensive professional study of EMP. They suggest we store our main radio, or a backup radio, in a metal box, to protect the circuits from an EMP blast. Any modern radio hooked to an antenna and plugged into a power supply will probably not survive the attack even if you have lightening protection on your station already. Interestingly, any older rig with tubes instead of modern solid state would most likely survive if not connected to an antenna or AC power. A simple thing called a “Faraday Cage” is nearly a fool proof protector of electronics from an EMP. Your metal box or screen could be as simple as a metal filing cabinet or box or small wire screen grounded.

We will need alternative power, as the AC will be out for a very long time. Batteries with recharge ability would do. Solar panels to recharge 12 volt batteries will do fine. Small gas generators will do but you must protect them from EMP if they have any computer or electronic control circuits built in them.

You should prepare to survive without any additional food or water sources from existing normal supplies. Also complete cut off of all medically supplies. There will be no grocery store or pharmacy to re-supply you for a very long time after such an attack.

I am not writing this to scare you but to inform you of the possibility of such an event that our country is wide open to an attack. I encourage you to research this topic on your own. Start with Dr. Forstchen's website, www.onesecondafter.com. Other websites with information are: http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/emp_and_faraday_cages.htm

QST Magazine Articles - 1986
In 1986, QST magazine published a 4-part article on "Electromagnetic Pulse and the Radio Amateur". The article offered some in-depth technical information on hardening radio equipment against lightning strikes or nuclear explosions. More than you ever wanted to know...
Here are the 4 articles in Adobe Acrobat: (NOTE: files are hosted at the ARRL.org site)

Article 1 - How EMP works and its effects on antennas, equipment, phone lines, etc. (1.09MB .pdf file)

Article 2 - Tests of EMP & transient protection devices. (523k .pdf file)

Article 3 - More tests of EMP & transient protection devices (583k .pdf file)

Article 4 - Procedures and products to protect your gear (568k .pdf file)

Congressional Testimony on EMP Topics

1997 Congressional Testimony on the effect of EMP Blasts on the national infrastructure in the House Committess on National Security - a long and fascinating read; Note - sometimes this link works, sometimes not - keep trying.

1999 Congressional Testimony on the effect of an EMP attack on the US economy.

1999 Testimony in front of the House Armed Services Committee from Dr. Lowell Wood from Livermore National Labs on the EMP threat.

1998 Testimony in front of the Joint Economic Committee on "Radio Frequency Weapons and Proliferation"

I also encourage you to read the novel, One Second After, by William Forstchen.

An editor of Aviation Week and Space Technology, after reading this novel declared. “It is not a question of if it will happen . . . it is merely a question of when.”

Dave Garner

K4YRK

1. “EMP 101” A BASIC PRIMER & SUGGESTIONS FOR PREPAREDNESS By William R. Forstchen Ph.D. Author of “One Second After”

2. “EMP 101” A BASIC PRIMER & SUGGESTIONS FOR PREPAREDNESS By William R. Forstchen Ph.D. Author of “One Second After”

Member Comments:
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EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by WX4O on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
To me, it's better to be scared, and plan accordingly.
A cheap way to knock us out.
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KE7WJF on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
A question: how will a solar panel and its charing controller survive if they are not in a metal box?
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W8ZNX on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
hello

45 years a ham
few years US Army Signal Corps

I am not a emergency responder
never will be one
did not become a ham
to be a emergency responder

do not own a orange vest, ht or message pad

EMP
heck I am not about to worry about this

man
as a kid in the 50s
did the hiding under the desk bs
" duck and cover "

fear the Russians
fear the commies
fear others that are not like us

nobody is dumb enough to start a nuke war
not even the Korean People's Army
heck
they have not fought a war in over 50 years

what make you think they are about
to wreck what they have going

EMP

i am more worried about making the next house payment

yours truly
mac

oh ps
nice shoulder boards
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KB9CRY on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Is the sky falling?
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KB2DHG on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Very informative, and yes, it is a possability... I would hope that the leaders of these countres today would be smart enough not to do such a horriffic thing.
You article is a bit alarming and has some merrit.
I pray this day never come BUT as a seasond CW operator, I know that in some way shape or form I can always devise a way to make and break a spark.
I think we should bring back the code requirement and make sure there will be pleanty of CW Operators around so we can communicate back and fourth as was done back in the 1800's
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KC5MO on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Tube radios will still work.

Herb KC5MO
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K4RAF on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
There is no need to worry about EMP. The messiah is working on disarming all the world's tin-horn despots.

The messiah is protecting us.
The messiah will protect us forever.

You actually doubt the messiah's unprecidented ability to part the seas?

How dare you worry, NoBomba is going to fix everything. No need to worry...

Raf
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by PULLRAFTT on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Very nice article, but as usual some stupid comments follow...
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KB3LSR on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Just keep one radio in a box, disconnected from power and an antenna.

I remember reading some old FEMA publications and they recommended removing any antenna longer than 19 inches (which is exactly a 2M antenna) and disconnecting the power. From what I read (I'm not an expert though), the EMP is basically conducted from anything that will receive the signal, antennas, power lines, and railroad tracks. So if anything is connected to one of those conducters, then it will pick up the signal.

I never gave much thought to solar panels, but that would be interesting to see some studies/research on. I guess it's a good thing that we don't have first-hand experience about these EMPs.

I uploaded a lot of FEMA publications onto my website at www.kb3lsr.com, you should check them out.


73 de AB3HJ
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by AE5EP on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
While I'm not a physicist (and I hope one will weigh in on the topic), what I remember about modern physics makes the supposition suspect on at least two counts: first the full name of the effect is "nuclear Compton scattering"; second, the inverse square law still works. 200 miles is a significant distance.

Sure, EMP is a reality, but folks, in the case of an EMP hit, we're going to have a lot more to worry about than loss of AC power. Chances are our solid-state radios will be fried, and possibly us as well.

On balance, this sounds like a lot of hype for a new novel.........
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W8JII on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Darn!! Now where did I put my old SX-25 and Harvey Wells TBS-50
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by AA4PB on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Wish I'd kept all them 90V "B" batteries :-)
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KF4HR on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Obama raising taxes on hard working US citizens, hard working citizens seeing their tax dollars being given away like water, national debt going through the roof, major auto makers starting to go out of business, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, pirates high jacking ships at sea, people loosing their jobs, Swine Flu, our housing market and economy in the toilet, and now we must build faraday shields around us to protect us from EMP?

Hummm, seems like every time I turn around it's something else...

That does it... I have GOT to stop turning around!

Parting thought of a slight bigger picture...

Should a nuke ever go off (God forbid), Electro Magnetic Pulse and not having a faraday shield for protection just might not be our biggest problem, eh?

KF4HR
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W1WN on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Ridiculous.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N4OI on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Great article! This is very useful information if we are to make good on the marketing phrase, "When all else fails..."
73 de Ken - N4OI
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N4OI on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
And another thing... Any idea how the worldwide propagation on HF will behave after an EMP event? Will it be the same as before (poor condx hi), is there a period of settling? Really curious.
73 de Ken - N4OI
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W9PMZ on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"One second after such an attack, we as a country would be set back to conditions similar to the mid 1850's in a society not able to cope without modern support systems. "

If this is the case, then those who are left are probably more worried about sustinance than to worry about radio.

I wonder what the nutritional value of a S Line is?

73,

Carl - W9PMZ

 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K0BG on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Chicken Little said it best.

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W3LK on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
My KWM-2A will still keep working. :)

That said, the LAST thing I will be worrying about if we have an event that generates a massive EMP is whether or not my radios work.

73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W4ZY on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The beauty of using high altitude nuclear detonations is that the buildings, roads, etc are not destroyed. The communications infrastructure, transportation, etc would be severely disrupted. I do not believe that people would die from radiation, but more from the disintegration of our society and supporting systems. I think that only two or three detonations would be required to blanket the country with an EMP pulse. Do you think that certain groups or countries would care if satellites stop working? The very threats are those entities that have little to lose. This would be a very easy way to take out the United States; we would cease to be a world power in a matter of hours. Any surviving communications would be invaluable. I think that was the idea of the post. I hope that someone more knowledgable than I weighs in. I beleive that this is a valid threat that we are vastly unprepared for. Hopefully, it will never happen.

 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K5DVW on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I just got to where I accepted the economic collapse, now this!
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by AI2IA on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Biological warfare is a far more likely threat than EMP.

Very powerful mixtures or cross strains of Black Death and Ebola Virus and similar biological agents have the ability to kill millions and leave the infrastructure and resources intact. Bio-weapons and their delivery systems are cheap and very stealthy.

Why worry about crude EMP?

Besides, all of this is a military matter. It is their mission to defend against at least EMP. The Amateur Radio Service was never intended to survive these threats.

Get realistic. Leave military matters to the military. Do what is within the practical limits of amateur radio and go about your day to day affairs.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by AE6CP on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
http://www.solarstorms.org/SS1882.html

Got news folks, it doesn't have to come from North Korea. Check out this link, takes you to several newspaper articles from November 18, 1882. A solar storm so bad that steel telegraph lines, and some power lines, even some that were burried, melted in two!

Some believe this storm has a normal pattern and happens every X number of years.

I'm not a survival nut but I keep enough food, water, cooking fuel and basic items like candles, medicine, batteries, ammo, etc to last us about a month. It's just a good idea and cost very little to build up and maintain.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N6NKN on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I'm safe. I've got a tin foil hat.


Rick N6NKN
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by ONAIR on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
OK, who's got some cheap old tube rigs for sale? Gotta see if I can find that old box of tubes I left in the attic 40 years ago!
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W9OY on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
What exactly are you going to plug those cheap tube rigs into?

73 W9OY
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W9WHE-II on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
NO HAM NEED FEAR EMP.
Barack Obama is president. You no longer need concern yourself with your own welfare. The government, as nanny state, will protect, provide and handle everything for you. All you need do is demand your "entitlements", continue to vote Democrat and watching Oprah.

 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KC8RWR on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Hmm... If this happens I'm not sure if our radios would be good for much more than to say goodbye to one another anyway. At least in the attack scenario. Now, in the really big solar storm scenario maybe it would be nice to be prepared.

Assuming that getting on the air is a pressing issue with all else that would be going on... does it really take more than most of us already have?

I think an important sentence in the article was the one which says all radios connected to an antenna or AC line would be fried. Don't most of us have some old radios lying around we rarely if ever hook up anymore? Am I the only pack rat? Even if they are solid state, how is an EMP going to fry something if it's just an inert mass with no circuit to complete? We would just loose our shiny new toys and have to resort to the junkers.

But then, those whom regularly disconnect their radios when not in use in order to protect from lightning... they have a chance of not even losing the good ones.

As for power, maybe our cars would be disabled but we would at least have something stored in the battery to get by on while we each figure out our own ways to generate more. I suspect a lot of us would manage to scrounge something together by the time the battery died, even if it only allowed for part-time operation followed by a lengthy recharge.

I think the more pressing issue would be finding a quick way to a "safe" place without the use of our cars. Somewhere away from the population centers before the riots start. This would be followed closely by fresh water, shelter & food, or maybe shelter first based on location and time of year.

Unless you think you are going to coordinate a recovery effort with your radio... Personally I wouldn't want to announce that I have electricity, food and water over the air. I have visions of trying to fend off a mob of hungry, panic driven people with my HT. The antenna isn't long enough.
 
Unbalancing ham radio.  
by AI2IA on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
If this kind of sensationalist posting serves any good beyond entertainment, maybe it will get some hams thinking about the intended limitations on the amateur radio service. As an example, amateur emcomm is intended to be a SUPPORT function. It is a backup, not a first tier level of emergency communication. Yes, it should be obvious, but too many get lost in the details.

As far as the rest of amateur radio goes, it is all an avocation, including the spreading of international good will and understanding.

Once again we can go back to Paul M. Segal, W9EEA, who in 1928 in "The Amateur's Code" put it this way:

The Radio Amateur is: Balanced ... radio is an avocation, never interfering with duties owed to family, job, school, or community.

Forget these extreme "what ifs" intended for entertainment and mere commenting. Keep it balanced.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KH6AQ on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
If you wish to have radio communication after an EMP follow the advice in this article and the references.

Military electronics is designed to withstand an EMP.

It is often stated that tube based amateur equipment will survive an EMP. 100% tube gear - rectifier tubes and all - might. There can be damage to receiver front end filters. Gear with solid state AC-DC rectifiers may not survive. So, if tube gear needs to be stored in shielded boxes just as solid state gear does it offers no advantage.

A filing cabinet is not sufficiently shielded to guarantee protection from an EMP.
 
RE: Unbalancing ham radio.  
by K5END on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!


At least the QRM would be a lot lower.



All one really needs following such an event is a simple receiver.


And plenty of ammo, of course.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by WA3SKN on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
All you have to do is store your eqpt in an old fridge or freezer. And yes, the old tube eqpt will still work, if you have power.
But remember too, that the ionisphere will not be supporting communications for awhile!
Or, you can just enjoy ham radio.
73s.

-Mike.
 
RE: Unbalancing ham radio.  
by KF4HR on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Come on folks, stop joking around. This could be serious stuff!

Forget about the impact to the rest of the US. An EMP could mean the end of all those important Contests and countless thousands of hours of mindless babbling on FM repeaters that we currently enjoy! What would we ever do?! QSL? :^0

I don't know about the rest of ya's, but I'm starting on my faraday cage today!

And come to think of it, after I finish my faraday cage, I might change careers and start writing doom's day books for a living. It could prove to be a lucrative pastime! :^)

KF4HR
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by VY1PG on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Popular Mechanics had a piece way back in September 2001 about a device that could be built by terrorists for $400. Something else happened that month AFTER the magazine was published (Editions usually come out late the previous month.)
It was their cover story.

E-Bombs And Terrorists: September 2001 Cover Story
In the blink of an eye, electromagnetic bombs could throw civilization back 200 years. And terrorists can build them for $400.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1281421.html
 
RE: Unbalancing ham radio.  
by AE6QF on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Wow!
Still another existential threat to our hamster colleagues in 4X4-land. I'll be sure to wake up my dog & tell him right away.
Some radios glow in the dark.

73, Quiet-Finger, AE6QF
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by VY1PG on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
This website has great preparedness information, as well as a forum for stories written by members.

http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/

There are a few good stories on here about the results of EMP attacks.

One of the best is Lights Out written by Halffast.

http://www.giltweasel.com/stuff/LightsOut-Current.pdf
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N0YXB on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Kooky comments from the ditto heads (and the non-ham troll who lurks here) aside, this is an interesting topic. If you've served in the military you're probably aware of EMP. Knowledge is a good thing, so thanks to the author for sharing.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W3WN on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"This is Lawrence. This is Lawrence, Kansas. Is there anybody there? Anybody at all?

 
RE: Unbalancing ham radio.  
by AJ4MJ on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Still another existential threat to our hamster colleagues in 4X4-land. I'll be sure to wake up my dog & tell him right away."

Thanks for adding some ignorance and bigotry to this conversation. It was really lacking before. We can't all be as smart as y'all in 6-land. Speaking of which, how's your State budget doing?

I'll go back to playing my banjo now.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by COOWALLSKY on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Kind of reminds me of a lefty environmental book club that sent out a catalog of books you could order. One was titled (paraphrasing) "What Do We Do When The Sun Burns Out?"

Considering that the sun is billions of years old and not even half way through it's burn sequence, the book's title and contents are laughable. The answer is simple...whomever the civilizations are at the time simply perish.
Chicken Little at it's greatest.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K9MHZ on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Just dust off the glow-in-the-dark gear and fire it up. You'll still be able to check in with "no traffic."



 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W9WHE-II on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Duno why any of you are worried....
Obama will handle everything. You needn't worry about anything. Democrats are in control and seizing more every day. Soon, they will be giving out so-called "stimulus" money for faraday cages and tube radios to all emcomm heros!
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by WI7B on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

This should tip you off as to the level of science discussed in this article:

"The answer to this question is in the form of a new novel by William R. Forstchen, “One Second After”."

One familiar with Compton scattering would find this description unrecognizable:

"As the bomb explodes it emits a powerful wave of gamma rays. As this energy release hits the upper atmosphere it creates an electrical disturbance known as the Compton Effect. The intensity is magnified. View it as a small pebble rolling down a slope, hitting a larger one, setting that in motion, until finally you have an avalanche."

No, not at all. Compton scattering is the DECREASE - not the magnification - in energy of photons (such as gamma radiation) in their interaction with matter. Gamma radiation can give rise to, not only, high energy electrons and lower energy photons (momentum IS conserved), but to PAIR PRODUCTION of both electrons and positrons. Of course, the positrons do not travel far and are destroyed rather rapidly in the atmosphere.

A main issue with Compton scattering vis-a-vis EMP, is that as a scatter event, upward-directed gamma radiation will lead to a signficant down-ward directed component of high energy electrons, as well as, a wide energy range of photons.

73,

---* Ken

 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KB1OCC on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
What was wrong with the 1850s?
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W9WHE-II on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Knowledge is a good thing".

Sure, when it is fact-based. Trouble is, press outlets have become shills for one political party. Propiganda reins supreme. Political talking points, fiction novels and psudo-science are asserted as fact to acomplish a political end. Just like the Compton effect here was mis-used to whip up more bogus "chrisis". Same for the global warming religion.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KG4YMC on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
DON'T WORRY , JUST INVEST IN GOLD THAT IS THE ANSWER TO EVERTHING THEY SAY. Well, you cannot eat gold, Latest doomday prep. is to buy seeds. Remember alas, babayon book , if had coffee , gas, or common 22 ammo could barter for food . Someone on talk radio now wants to sell seeds , if ground is hot with radiation how are you gonna grow anything ? digestiable antennas? thats the answer, gives new meaning to loading up the "wet noodle ' anyway, enought to worry about ,'retireing" from the state in 2 months, thanks to obamas recession cuts , so emp not a priority right now , or radio . But God is good and in control , Just have to survie 3 more years of obamnation. p.s. there was a good book about a 30 minute war, that was written like a news coropondants report, ironically califoria was the onely place left people were trying to get into , go figure . don't know the name , but was good book. Got 30 years with state, some retirment, house paid for , so we will be ok , may try getting cdl liscense or some other career. 73 Gods got a plan kg4ymc
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KD5URU on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Should this ever happen,the govenment would take your gear!!! THIS IS A HOBBY
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KD5URU on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Should this ever happen,the govenment would take your gear!!! THIS IS A HOBBY
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KB2FCV on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
You'd have alot more to worry about than just EMP results on your precious ham gear if someone exploded a nuke above the US. I'm not at all concerned about it. I would think if something escalated to that level where someone exploded a nuke here, we'd have a whole lot more to worry about.

The solar storm scenario.. that could get interesting. That's definitely something out of our control.

 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K5END on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!


quote, "You'd have alot more to worry about than just EMP results"


or perhaps all of our worries could be over?
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by WZ1P on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
My nasty little assault rifle is EMP proof. It will probably end up doing all my talking for me in the event of an attack.

Dan
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KJ4AUR on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
EMP or not, the AR-15 will still cycle just fine.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W8ATA on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Mark Twain said, "The worst things I have ever experienced never happened".

73,
Russ
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KI6WDZ on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The EMP Pulse "attack" would not be a stand-alone event. It would just be the precurser for the main attack, which would make everything else a minor nuisance. It would be the pre-cursor to all out war, and whether my IC-718 survives is not going to be on my top-ten list of things to worry about.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by AB7E on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

Sorry, but this article shows a silly lack of perspective. It's like stocking up on sun screen in case our sun goes supernova.

As others have stated, there are FAR more likely and easier ways to attack the U.S. than detonating a large enough bomb to cause a broadly destructive EMP, but aside from that, any EMP that was capable of zapping ham radio equipment is going to have much greater ramifications than just knocking out our communications capability. The loss of infrastructure means we'd soon be starving and sitting on top of our houses with rifles trying to protect our families from marauding gangs.

Dave AB7E

 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W9WHE-II on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Even under a "doomsday" sinerio, you needn't worry. Obama, Pelosi & Reid will take care of everything!
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K5EAG on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
A very good article and of course the normal stupid remarks from the ones who think something serious is a joke and find ways to critize the author of a good article.
In todays times I can see this really happening by some radical Muslum terrorist group. They live in the dark ages now and only have modern weapons and ammunition. They do not care how the modern people of the world live. The are used to sleeping on the ground, not educating their children, especially the females. They hate America and all the advancements our country has made. They survive now in the remote areas of their countries and live on the simplest of things. Having no computers, TV, internet and all the other things the mdern world enjoys, would not bother them. Going back to the dark ages with no planes, trains or autombiles would suit them just fine. All they want is to go to their heaven and get their 70 virgins.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KASSY on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Doesn't actually sound like much of a threat.

The solution to the problem was contained in paragraph eight of the article. "One second after such an attack, we as a country would be set back to conditions similar to the mid 1850's in a society not able to cope without modern support systems."

I think it would be more like the 1920s/1930s. We can do just fine without cellphones, computers, television (particularly with the drivel that's on the toob today) the internet and electronic timers on the fridge. My great grandparents said it was a happy time, even during the depression.

Some people would perish - those who live a life where their very survival is dependent on the latest technology are living on borrowed time anyway. If this is a large percentage of the population, then we as a society are weak.

My family would do just fine. One of our members has encouraged us to be capable of off-grid living. We aren't at the point of growing all our own food, but we could. We know how to gather and treat rainwater, we can heat the home with wood, we can cook with wood, we have a hand pump for the water well. We won't be at risk of not surviving, and I dare say, we'll enjoy communing with nature quite a bit more than we do today.

As one of our younger members said, "we go on a month-long tent-style camping vacation every year, so it would be like being on vacation all year long."

- k
 
Nothing new  
by WB4M on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Years ago when I was in the USAF, what you describe was referred to then as "X-Ray Pin-down". A very powerful neutron bomb is exploded high in the atmosphere, releasing very powerful x-rays, which in turn renders almost all equipment inoperable. The targeted country is unable to do anything, hence being "pinned down".

Now I ask, if you are on the verge of getting nuked, do you really care about your transceiver??? These threads about how to operate after a nuclear attack are hilarious! If you manage to survive, your next task is to find some surviving roaches or earthworms to have for lunch.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KI9A on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
What a waste of bandwidth. I'm going to QSY up 5, and wait for a better thread...
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W1RKW on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
What proof exists that EMP could wipe out 100% of the country's comm system, grid or anything else or parts of it across the land? Any government that attempts to do that to the US is in for a big surprise. I find the whole scenario highly unlikely. I will continue to be the typical couch potato.
 
CBS ' Jericho ' Series  
by G3SEA on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

This actually occurs ( after 23 U.S. Cities are first hit by nukes ) in the the CBS 'Jericho ' series.

I believe all the episodes are on a CBS Jericho website.

Ham Radio ( FT 101 ) is shown in operation ( Before the EMP ).

This is a very real and disturbing scenario.

KH6/G3SEA
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K8QV on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I need to get a thicker orange vest.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W4VR on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Let's go back to tube-type communications and entertainment equipment! There are more important serious things impacting this country at the moment than EMP.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KE7RKI on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
...the AR-15 will still cycle just fine...

...nasty little assault rifle is EMP proof...

Honestly, you think that you will be able to stop the HORDES of people that will show up with your guns? BAWAHAHAHAHA!!! Once they find out that you have resources, you're toast. Hungry people will take that gun from you and shot you right there, just so there's one less mouth to feed. Yeah, you may take out a few maybe even a bunch, but you can't defend the whole house and are you really going to expect your children or wife to kill people, BECAUSE THEY ARE HUNGRY!!! This ISN'T 1850!!!

The ONLY way to prevent a future EMP event, is to destroy all NUKES everywhere. No NUKES, No EMP!!! Simple. The US SHOULD be the leader on this! Probably never going to happen though.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by VY1PG on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
You don't need a nuke to make an EMP... See my previous post from Popular Mechanics.

PG
 
RE: CBS ' Jericho ' Series  
by K1DA on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I get ALL my science from TV shows. That's why I'll be stocking up on air conditioners to sell to Eskimos.
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W5HLP on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
1) Good Article

2) Usual (snarky to stupid) responses

3) As mentioned - don't need a nuke to do it.

4) Doesn't need to be 200 miles high

5) Notwithstanding 3) If you really still believe that only a government can set off a nuke - oh how I envy your ability to live in denial. Likewise if you still believe that just because some sets off a nuke somewhere everyone is toast, same envy - you are so far into denial you don't have a clue.

6) Protection factors include distance (1/rsquared), shielding, dimensions and construction (max length, tube v solid state)

7) The surest way to guaranteeing the use of a nuke is for us to "get rid of all nukes". You can't "get rid of the knowledge" and a small simple nuke is just that - relatively easy to build. Not guess, not opinion - fact; from one who has touched tested and 'been intimate with' the physics packages of MK-12s.

8) Notwithstanding my rant against hypocritical pacifist twaddle in 7), current projections are a nuclear detonation "in anger" will occur by 2018 : 98 to 98.25% probability. May not be here, may be by a 'govamint' or an NGO or ?? but it will happen.

9) Like April 15th - I prefer to prepare rather than couch potato my way to the future.

Have a nice day
W5HLP
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KE7VUX on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>Honestly, you think that you will be able to stop the
>HORDES of people that will show up with your guns?

That's why I have a clear field of fire for several hundred yards in all directions. It may suck not having any big trees to hang antennas from, but at least I have a clear field of fire, and reinforced shooting positions (read: basement window wells)

All you really need to do is convince the hordes that there are easier targets out there (read: unarmed people with resources) and the majority will move on.

Much like the idea behind locking your door when your neighbor doesn't. Why pick the hard one to rob?



>Hungry people will take that gun from you and shot
>you right there

The only way they're going to get close enough to take the gun is because it's empty - so I won't have to worry about 'em shooting me with my own weapon. :D

>expect your children or wife to kill people, BECAUSE
>THEY ARE HUNGRY!!! This ISN'T 1850!!!

Uh, absolutely. Kill them, or we starve to death. Clearly it's an us or them situation, and I pick us.

>The ONLY way to prevent a future EMP event, is to
>destroy all NUKES everywhere. No NUKES, No EMP!!!
>Simple. The US SHOULD be the leader on this! Probably
>never going to happen though.

Definitely never going to happen. The genie's out of the bottle.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by WS4E on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I read that they did testing on common commercial and ham radio equipment and found actually a high rate of survival.


Battery powered VHF/UHF equipment using a "rubber ducky" antenna was immune to damage.

Equipment connected to unprotected mains power suffered power supply damage.

And HF equipment connected to unprotected outside antennas suffered receiver front end damage.

For solid state equipment, this damage was to the first RF stage transistor, for tube equipment, it was damage to the first stage grid resistor. No transmitters suffered damage.

And if you have a Polyphaser or ICE protector on your HF line you will be in good shape.



The threat of EMP is way over blown in the movies.

For ground/nearground burts the EMP effect only happens in the same range as the flash burn occurs, and your equipment(and your skin) is toast then anyway.

For high altitude burts its spread out more, but the energy basically looks like a lightning strike several miles away, just like what polyphaser and ICE devices do good jobs protecting from.
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KE4DRN on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
hi,

Real yes, but remote possibility.
I'll let the guys and gals in the Pentagon
worry about this.

Our advanced missile detection systems would
sound the alarm shortly after the launch(s)
and appropriate action would be taken.

it would be easier and cheaper for the bad guys
to ship a few devices in cargo continers
to all the ports of entry in the US.

They used an EMP device in Ocean's Eleven movie
and also on 24 TV show.

73 james
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N0FPE on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Ok...first no one said any country would do this. Zelots maybe.. Some of my radios will survive some will not. who cares. I am going get my GUNS out and make sure they are all good to go and check my AMMO supply. Once that is done I will worry abt other things.

Dan
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by OLLIEOXEN27 on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
You can destroy the housing market...I'll just live in my car. You can ruin the currency by printing trillions of dollars...I'll eat out of the dumpster. But going without ham radio is something I will not survive.

oli
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W0UHU on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
*If you were to change the title to "Geomagnetic Storm a Real Threat to Hams" it might make the problem easier to swallow. It's a serious problem and worth including in disaster planning scenarios...
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KI4WCA on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The EMP produced by a nuke could wipe out most sensitive gear in the conus...if it is big enough.Like a megaton or so.A good place to investigate the effects is FAS.org.They have excellent material online regarding nuclear weapon effects.I think it is an ugly scenario, but nicer than being heated to a million degrees by a direct hit!
A big coronal mass ejection would be worse than any man made EMP attack.A serious CME would wreck the satellite constellation, as well as de-orbiting the low birds.
Note that the DPRK is unlikely to have a 1 meg yield weapon anytime soon,ditto Iran.
That said, a spare in a box would be nice.But food and water might be even more useful.....
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by AF3Y on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
OH Boy! Here we go again (and again and again and again.....) BLACK HELICOPTERS, Y2K, etc. etc. I gotta tell you, we REALLY need some sunspots. How come most of this off the wall stuff seems to come from "down south"???
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KJ4AUR on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Honestly, you think that you will be able to stop the HORDES of people that will show up with your guns? BAWAHAHAHAHA!!! Once they find out that you have resources, you're toast. Hungry people will take that gun from you and shot you right there, just so there's one less mouth to feed. Yeah, you may take out a few maybe even a bunch, but you can't defend the whole house and are you really going to expect your children or wife to kill people, BECAUSE THEY ARE HUNGRY!!! This ISN'T 1850!!!"

I'm honestly not sure how long I could survive before being taken out but in the interim there's going to be one heck of a pit BBQ. Rumor is the vegans are the tastiest. (kidding of course until we're doing the Neutron Dance)
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W7ETA on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Events to be prepared for:
Floods
Forest fires
Hurricanes
Tornadoes
Blizzards
Nuclear attack
H1N1 flue
Black death
Ebola
No0code hams
Food from China
Illegal alien invasion
8 hour wait for medical attention at hospitals
Hospital predatory pricing
Credit Card interest rate gouging
EMP


Well. At least I can shove a TR4C and power supply into my filing cabinet while I finish digging my bomb shelter. I've got the DC to AC converter and can run that from the battery in my motorcycle.

I keep an aluminum boat on my roof for floods and chains for my motorcycle inside the boat, for blizzards.

Best from Hot Tucson
Bob
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by WB4JVR on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I am a nuclear physicist, but not an expert in this area. The EMP issue has been known since the late 50's. It is actually referred to beta blackout. It is caused by the release of gamma and x-rays that interact with the matter in the atmosphere through the Compton effect as well as pair production (production of electron and anti-matter electrons).

If I remember correctly the effect was first seen in a wide scale during a high altitude atmospheric a-bomb test. It wiped out communications in the Pacific Rim (radio and buried sea cable) for perhaps a day (not too sure of the details here).

If you look carefully at some photos of H-bomb (not a-bomb) test, in the early stages you will see a fireball (semi circle) with lightning out to either side. The lightning is caused by the ionization in the atmosphere due to Compton effect and pair production.

There are certain designs of nuclear weapons referred to as enhanced radiation weapons (the neutron bomb is one of those) that can produce a significant output of microwaves or x-rays or neutrons. It has been estimated that a single enhanced microwave detonation at the right altitude would be sufficient to cripple the entire east coast – or black out Europe.

This is why the U.S. abandoned using nuclear warheads on anti-aircraft and/or anti-missile systems. You pop a single anti-missile with a nuclear warhead to knock down incoming warheads and you effectively blind your own radar for minutes to hours. A simple strategy to defeat the early U.S. anti-missile system was to send a single warhead at the U.S. wait for a nuclear anti-missile to knock it down (thus blinding the U.S. radar), then fire the rest of your missiles while the radar is blind. That is why kinetic kill systems have been developed.

The U.S. did use EMP weapons in the Bosnia conflict, but these were not nuclear based. However the Russians, upon detecting the EMP effects, for a while charged the U.S. with using tactical nuclear weapons. These EMP weapons were based on a super conducting magnet what was pinched using explosives to generate a large EMP. Limited range, but effective against electronics. It was not necessary to carpet bomb an area to take out an well hidden enemy radar. Also used against the power distribution infrastructure were conducting carbon fibers, they were scattered over a large area by explosives and simply short-circuited power lines and transformers.

I did not hear anything of EMP weapons being using during the Iraq conflict. I suspect that the damage inflicted on the power transmission infrastructure in Bosnia was such that it was not desirable to use in Iraq.

The point is that an EMP weapon (nuclear or conventional) is nothing new and can have a devastating effect on current technology communication and power distribution. While the damage to the infrastructure would be substantial (imagine NO power and NO communications and NOBODY coming to help) there would be very little damage to physical structures although radiation levels might be high for a short time. The military has been working on the issue for a long time and would be able to provide an appropriate response. However zapping the civilian population of the U.S. back to the mid 1800s would result in significant social problems for a long time.
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by AD7WN on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
A good thoughtful article.

I sure can't address every issue that could arise, but here are a couple of ideas.

1. Who would be crazy enough to even try something like this? N. Korea is crazy but not that nuts. The only country that comes to mind is one that has vowed to destroy Israel. Our best preventive measure might be to help the Isrealis out with the weapons they need.

2. My own simple lightning-protection measures. I have a small qrp station, and when not operating, the antenna feedline gets disconnected and removed some thirty feet from the shack. The rig is powered by gel-cell batteries, and the battery that is currently powering the rig is not connected to anything that is plugged into an AC outlet. It wouldn't be all that hard to build a well-shielded "coffin" that could be adequate to protect the rig when not in use. For operation after an EMP, the batteries could be charged by a gas generator as needed.

This leaves a lot of issues not addressed, such as: What the heck are we going to eat? How long will it take the ionosphere to stabilize after the event? Who's gonna be left to communicate with and for what purpose? Etc.

Anybody crazy enough to do this could certainly make things unpleasant for us, and they might well wipe a good percentage of us out. But what the heck? What was so bad about life in 1850 anyway? At least the buffalo herds hadn't been wiped out by that time. We might well enjoy moving around by horseback again once we'd tried it.

73 de John/AD7WN
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N0ZLD on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Resetting the clock to the 1850's might have some benefits :)
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K9KJM on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Um, "Who is going to be crazy enough to try this?"
How about the same type of folks who hijack jetliners and fly them into large buildings?

Osama Bin Laden has stated in public that there will be an American "Hiroshima" So far he has followed through with his threats.......

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45313

Like lots of things, The possible damage from EMP tends to get overblown. As correctly pointed out by others, Distance from the event makes a big difference. Damage from things that terrorists would be able to get would have limited range, Even if detonated at altitude.
I suspect that the so called "suitcase Nukes" that have gone missing from the former Soviet Union would not produce all that much EMP.

If your station is more than a few hundred miles away, And you have decent lightning protection, I doubt you will have any damage. (Yes, I am aware that some nuclear "superpowers" DO have them that can cause damage to a much wider area. Odds are those will not be the ones used by these groups.

Many people also forget that this would not be the first use of nuclear, (Or EMP devices as pointed out)
WE used two of them in anger over Japan, And both the USA and the former Soviet Union detonated many hundreds of them over a few years time, Including many right in our own country!

Be like the boy scout. Be prepared.

The CBS series "Jericho" does appear to be very well researched, And does show what could happen.

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/jericho/

 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KD5SFK on May 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Oh god! Oh god! We're all gonna die!
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by NN4RH on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Dang. Not only do I have to duck-and-cover, I have to remember to wrap my HT in aluminum foil.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KJ4AUR on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
If your radio doesn't work after EMP you're going to have a hard time coordinating an amber-light/orange vest convention. Think of the amber lights gentlemen...
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KG4TKC on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

WB4JVR

Thank you and a handful of others for the occasional islands of intelligence that appear in the vast sea of ignorance that formed around this article.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N0YXB on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Indeed! Thanks for the intelligent response WB4JVR.

Vince
N0YXB
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KB1SF on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Clearly, the sunspot minimum is taking its toll and bringing all the angry wingnuts out of the woodwork who now have absolutely nothing else to do (and apparently no other place to express their anger over long-needed progress and change in the rest of our society) except to boorishly vent it in unrelated forums like these.

Seriously, though, there was some talk soon after the Oklahoma City bombing (which was incidentally caused by ANOTHER far right wing nut case who couldn't adjust to change) that all the police and fire repeaters in downtown Oklahoma City took an EMP pulse as a result of that explosion.

I've always wondered if there was any truth to that rumor.

73,

Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by WB5CCO on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"imagine NO power and NO communications and NOBODY coming to help"

Gee, brings back memories of the Bush administration's position regarding their response to Hurricane Katrina, August 29, 2005.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K9FON on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
This post is very interesting! At least it is an escape away from the usual no coder, CB, ham radio being dumbed down, new hams vs older hams, kind of tripe we see on a daily basis.
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by VE3KKQ on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
A biological attack is a much more cost effective method. There is practically nothing the person who does not have the proper protective equipment can do.
This would take care of CB'ers, people who don't use the proper phonetic alphabet, people operating outside their frequency allocation, pesky contesters, those who expound the virtues of APRS, ILRP and HIFI SSB.
Long live the micro organism!!
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W9WHE-II on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
WB5CCO writes:

"Gee, brings back memories of the Bush administration's position regarding their response to Hurricane Katrina, August 29, 2005".

Another mis-informed "victim" of left-wing propiganda.

My friend, ANYBODY and EVERYBODY in the emergency response business (or has NIMS training) knows that the local municipal, county and state authorities are the FIRST RESPONDERS and that the Feds (FEMA) is a back-up support authority. Pity you don't.

But hey, let's not let FACTS stand in the way of left wing propiganda and talking points!
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N6NKN on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I learn very little here on eHam but I must admit it's good for comic relief.

Rick N6NKN
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by AJ4DW on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Let's see.... "all they've got to do is smuggle a (two-story rocket) into the country"... God, I'm glad we've got metal detectors at the airports!
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K4YRK on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Well the response to my article has been active and very interesting to say the least.

That was the intent of the article, to get you to think about this and to do your own research on the topic. I encourage you to go to the links listed in the article and also do other research on your own.

Thanks to several very informed hams who have added their thoughts on this, like WB4JVR. While not a scientist myself, I do have a scientific background and have talked to several retired military officers and scientist that have done extensive work on EMP and, for the most part, they all agree that EMP could be a big problem, no matter if caused by man or a natural solar storm.

The EMP threat from a nuclear explosion is very well known and has been studied since the 1950's and the military has been preparing for this since the 50's. The real problem is the civilian side has not been prepared or for the most part even aware of it and the government for the most part has done little to prepare for it either. Our modern technological society and structure or our communications, electrical, and transportation system are very open to this threat and an almost total breakdown might result from a well staged attack by a determined enemy. We are not talking about a full scale nuclear attack but just as little as three small nuclear warheads on relatively small rockets launched from either stateside or like in the story in "One Second After", from three tramp freighters just off our east and west coast.

Go to Dr. Forstchen's website www.onesecondafter.com to see a recent interview by Fox News on the threat presented in his novel, "One Second After".
Also please read the attached links on the Congressional hearings with experts on the threat. The hearings concluded that the deaths from such an attack on our country might only leave about 10 percent survival after one year.

We as a nation were not prepared for 9-11. Our enemies are a work now as we read this planning future large scale attacks on our country. In fact, one terrorist leader recently released a comment that a new upcoming attack would amaze the world on the extend and results.


Not to say that many other threats exist; I hope and pray that none happen in our future. That said, it is better to be prepared than not.

Thanks to all that have read the article and 73,

Dave
K4YRK
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KC9EOT on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Sorry one other thing, you mentioned solar panels, they are semi conductor based material, not sure they would work after an EMP, they might, I dont know for sure.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K9FON on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
IMHO, the biggest threat to hams now is ourselves. The negative attitudes towards no coders and new hams can and will eventually kill off the hobby as we know it! :-)
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KB4QAA on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
OMG let's panic! NOT.

Look, I've been following this stuff since it was first openly published in "Science" in 1980. At that time I didn't know a single person who owned a computer and my telephone was rotary dialed. My car didn't have any microchips. Our vulnerablity is now almost 100% since nearly everthing today uses semiconductors.

If, *IF* you are in the zone of an EMP device, your world will come to a stop. Only equipment you store in a grounded Faraday cage capable of withstanding up to 50KV/m2 might survive. Damn few hams will build such a structure, and little can be stored in it. Further, if we are concerned about surprise attacks, then hams must have their emergency equipment securely stored 24/7 till the war on terror ends.

The priority after an EMP blast become soley survival:
-locate water source
-locate food sources
-locate fuel sources
-buy/build, install stove or fireplace for heating and cooking.
-Remember cars will not work. You gotta walk everywhere now.

How many hams will be in such a situation of luxury that they can afford to provide radio support instead of securing the necessities for their families for an indefinite period?

The $400 emp bomb is hyperbole. Used at low altitude is has only limited range. For wide and significant damage it must be detonated above the atmosphere circa 20-30miles. Can't do that with an airplane. And no jihadists aren't going to be building and launching suborbital rockets inside CONUS.

The gist, is: fallback and punt. We hams have little ability to support government or the military in an EMP scenario. Face it: we will be survivors. The military and government are the only ones remotely designed to come thru, and we will be waiting with our families for relief supplies of food water and medicine weeks and months later.

A few hams may be capable of assisting. On the whole, this is a "whacker dream" in trying to stir up fear, and false heroism among amateurs.

Bill
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by COOWALLSKY on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Gee, brings back memories of the Bush administration's position regarding their response to Hurricane Katrina, August 29, 2005. "

Gee, Alabama and Mississippi were able to cope.

The government is always biting off more than it can chew NO MATTER who sits in the Oval Office.
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by G0GQK on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Why are Americans frightened of everything ? I think the problem is Hollywood and the over imaginative authors that America produces with unending regularity.
Perhaps its the result of George Bush and his buddies who spent eight years frightening the crap out of everybody.

When you're lying in bed wondering when the end of the world will arrive, and how your family will survive the unimaginable, just remember the US government has enough bombs, rockets, B52's, F-18's, aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines, as well as the hundreds of millions of guns and ammunition owned by you, the people, to kill every person on earth ELEVEN TIMES.
Stop reading stupid books and get out for a walk occasionally and stop mithering about what might happen. It should be US, not Americans, who worry, about you !

G0GQK
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N8NSN on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I was going to make a comment on this article, but I have changed my thinking.

I decided to instead, waste a little more band width with a response as valid as the initial article. "hmmmm"

Let's all live the rest of our years in 'panic mode'...

Disgusting.
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KD5JX on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Ask yourself why many Emergency HF transceivers are contained in a metal box from the factory.
Secondly, don't worry about Korea , former Russian states or Russia itself; worry about the rogue religious groups and others that have nothing to lose. They don't care what or who is left after the deed is done. I also remember the drills in the 50's and 60's. It scared the hell out of all of us, and it still should. Complacency led to 9/11.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by WD8T on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Geeze...and just when I put away my foil hat from the swine flu scare..this!
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KN9D on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
There is a lot to be said for the story of Joseph,the Pharoah and the starving cows eating the fat cows.
The more people who have a properly stored supply of everything from food,water,and toilet paper to tools and weapons,then the quicker any area will recover from disasters of any type.New Orleans was an example of people at their stupidest from the Mayor to the looters taking TV sets in the face of no poweer and massive flooding!
Properly stored DOESN'T mean 20 years of dried beans buried in a hole but simply having canned food that needs no refrigeration could be a lifesaver.
Read the novels by Stirling for several variations on the "involuntary return to pre-electrical civilation" theme.Also "Lucifer's Hammer" for a meteor strike story.
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K0DCH on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Back in the '80s I worked on a torpedo launched system that was intended to allow HF communication after a nuclear "event". Evidently there would be no ionosphere for a while and this system was designed to launch balloon borne repeaters...or something.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by WB5CCO on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
W9WHE writes:
"Another mis-informed "victim" of left-wing propiganda.

My friend, ANYBODY and EVERYBODY in the emergency response business (or has NIMS training) knows that the local municipal, county and state authorities are the FIRST RESPONDERS and that the Feds (FEMA) is a back-up support authority. Pity you don't.

But hey, let's not let FACTS stand in the way of left wing propiganda and talking points!"

Yea, I guess you had to be there to fully appreciate the situation.

Richard
WB5CCO
Katrina Survivor
NIMS certified
Retired Law Enforcement



 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by DRSTRANGENUT on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Lucifer's Hammer" was a great book. When it comes, you will not be prepared.

There are too many things out to get you for you to worry about this.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KE4DRN on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
hi,

my HOA won't let me put up an antenna !

73 james
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KB4QAA on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Tell the HOA you need to put one up because you are part of civil defense for the neighborhood in case of EMP attack.

I'm sure they will be tremendously impressed. ;)
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W6EM on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
WB4QAA:"If, *IF* you are in the zone of an EMP device, your world will come to a stop. Only equipment you store in a grounded Faraday cage capable of withstanding up to 50KV/m2 might survive. Damn few hams will build such a structure, and little can be stored in it."

How about a Hughes 500C and a Bell 206 connected to 300kV/m EHV line while hovering at about 150 feet doing live-line work?

They're not ideal Faraday cages. Lots of plexiglass. They operated just fine. Then, maybe, my exposure to it caused more of my cranial forest to defoliate than would have been the case otherwise.

An electric field produces static charge on the surface of a conductor, a Faraday cage is but one example. The cross sectional area needed to drain off static charge is not significant. Common window screen or "tin-foil-hats" should work just fine. Or, if its raining, your wet house would be as good as they come.

A magnetic field is another animal. Penetrates everything. And, according to James Clerk Maxwell, if its a time-varying magnetic field, it induces a voltage proportional to flux density. If the conductors cut by the flux are monopole, the induced voltage could be clamped to a safe limit using one of several arrester technologies. On the other hand, if conductors form a complete circuit, then the circulating current(s) could become a problem.

Surge arrestors are installed on virtually all EHV transformers, both primaries and secondaries. Ususally too, on all substation distribution transformers.

Dr. Lowell Wood's Star Wars program was phased out at LLNL. Probably for some of the reasons mentioned earlier in this thread with regard to affects of the radiation on our own birds as well as the adversary's. Plus, life in a bunch of trailers there was probably not that fulfilling. Important projects resided in the comfortably-plush permanent buildings.

73.

 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by WA1RNE on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

Another potentially serious effect of EMP is the impact on satellite communications. Apparently, even a low altitude, low yield device, like a Scud missile (the type Iraq used to have) which has the potential to cause a lot of damage.

Here's a bit of research that hits some very interesting points. This is a PowerPoint presentation with a total of 90 slides and seems a little long at first, but stay with it, there's a lot of interesting information.


www.uoregon.edu/~joe/infragard-2009/infragard-eugene-2009.ppt


...WA1RNE
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N0VLJ on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
w9whe lern to spel - lern to thenk - and then in the werds of yer hero gop vp, " go #$@% yerself."
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KC8VWM on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA"

I don't think this is going to be a problem... :)

Have Renewable Food Source & 2 Year Supply in Storage.
Have Independant Water Supply...
Have Wind Power...
Have Solar Power...
Have Geothermal Heating System...
Have EMP "Tested" Military Radio Equipment...
Have Tornado Shelter / Radio Bunker...
Completely Self Sufficient...

All Systems Operational ...

..Go ahead... cut of the electrical grid and bring it on already! :)

73 de KC8VWM
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KG4CLD on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
A high altitude nuclear explosion may not cause surface damage, but it will create a large enough EMP burst to damage electrical systems and electronic networks to cease our technology for awhile, but not indefinitely. How much depends on how large of a burst.

Unless you have a shielded underground bunker to place communication equipment into, as well as, a large supply of basic survival supplies. This is purely a flight of fancy. Would you want to be around after a nuclear holocaust?

Anyone remember when contractors advertised the sale and contruction of "bomb-shelters?" In the mid-west, they are now called "Storm Shelters."

Instead of worrying about a nuclear holocaust, we should reverse engineer all that Asian technology so we can begin rebuilding our ability to manufacture state-of-the-art technology. Hell, they've been doing that to us for over 50 years. Its time to level the playing field. Take back the technology market stolen by them or sold to them by traitorous American businessmen looking only to capitalize their bank accounts.

 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N6NKN on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Come on guys. I'll bet if we try real hard we can blame this threat on "incentive licensing".

Rick N6NKN
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KC8VWM on May 21, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
lol Rick
 
RE: EMP a Bogus Hoax  
by W6EM on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
So far, EMP has been used to stir up frenetic behavior. Both here on this thread and elsewhere. Why? To sell a book or two. To earn speaking and consulting fees.

The physics is somewhat simple. And, the effects about the same as lightning transient overvoltages.

As has been said earlier, use effective lightning protection and that will take care of most concerns.

According to what has been said of the Compton effect, the resultant sea of free electrons might make for massive static discharges in the atmosphere and that's about all. We're living with lightning crashes all the time here in the southeast.

From the few items I've seen on the military surplus market that have supposed EMP protection, they almost always amount to integral surge arresters. That's it, folks.

If you want to help the guy who wrote the latest scare sheet make some bucks, buy his book. Then, do a little research on Fourier analysis, and what the spectrum of a single, time-domain pulse called a "unit impulse" looks like. Then, you may understand why lightning crashes take place.

Also, research lightning damage and see if there's a pile of data on magnetically coupled damage from nearby strikes. I don't think you'll find any. Sure, lots about transient over voltage from differential earth voltages.

Lightning is a good example. It has almost an infinite rise time, very high magnitude (100KA or more) and its a very short duration pulse.

73.
 
RE: EMP a Bogus Hoax  
by W6EM on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Er, sleepy, I guess..... Lightning has a very fast rise time, not an infinite one as I said. Closest thing to a unit impulse I know of.

Also, static crashes are almost an everyday phenom on HF in the southeast......

73.

Lee
W6EM/4
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W9WHE-II on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
G0GQK asks:

"Why are Americans frightened of everything?"

Only certain Americans are frightened of everything. Liberals couch everything as a "chrissis", so that the sheep believe that GOVERNMENT intervention is required to save helpless citizens from the boogey-man. Its just another way liberals justify creation of a nanny-state. FEAR. Scare the masses into believing that MASSIVE goverment action is required.

Al Gore's global warming religion is a prime example. Scare the masses with psuedo-science that is doctored and non-provable. Then, tell people the oceans will rise 20 feet and the planet will incenerate. For what? So followers of his global warming religion can impose their ideas on others.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KJ6ETL on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
If I recall correctly the US used during the 2nd invasion if Iraq EMP bombs to knock out Iraqi defenses. Something with carbon filled bombs designed to create a EMP on explosion.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W9WHE-II on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Conductive carbon fibers can be used to short-out power transmission substations.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W6EM on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"If I recall correctly the US used during the 2nd invasion if Iraq EMP bombs to knock out Iraqi defenses. Something with carbon filled bombs designed to create a EMP on explosion."

I seldom agree with Jonathan, W9WHE, but in this case he's right and you're wrong. Carbon fiber filled bombs were used to short out substation transformer and bus insulation.

It could have been copper or aluminum chaff as well.

Just doing in a very short time what soot, smoke and salt do naturally over an extended period.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by ONAIR on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
We were just hit with an EMP! (Economic Moment of Pain) If this continues, one can't pay the electric bill, and that will knock out a lot of your equipment.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W6EM on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
W9WHE-II:"Only certain Americans are frightened of everything. Liberals couch everything as a "chrissis", so that the sheep believe that GOVERNMENT intervention is required to save helpless citizens from the boogey-man. Its just another way liberals justify creation of a nanny-state. FEAR. Scare the masses into believing that MASSIVE goverment action is required."

This sounds exactly like what was used by Cheney and Bush to justify massive government expenditures in military hardware. It got so bad that I was afraid that when I turned on a water faucet, a terrorist was going to pour out.

Of course, Fair and Balanced amplified all the propaganda and had us afraid to do anything but stay at home and shiver.

Now Cheney's even got his daughter at work on TV trying to deflect his accountability for ordering water boarding. When the three attorneys that said waterboarding was "OK" start talking, all fingers will point to him.


 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W9WHE-II on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I so tired of being "tortured" by liberals over their "tortured" efforts to portray water boarding as "torture". Its torture for me to have to listen to their 'tortured" arguments


I want to see liberals prosecuted in the Hague for their "totrute" crimes! Heck, .... while we are at it, I need a goverment bailout!


 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W6EM on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Jonathan, I think Jesse Ventura, a former Navy Seal, said it best: "Let me waterboard Dick Cheney for 30 minutes and he'll be confessing to the Tate-LaBianca murders." (The View, 5/18/09)

Like I used to say, after Bush and Cheney leave office, they won't be doing much international travelling or they must might find themselves in The Hague awaiting trial.

Sounds fairly likely now.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W9WHE-II on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Nonsense.

Lee, the US millitary waterboards ITS OWN TROOPS as part of training. We do it to our own people to prepare them.

Get a GRIP!

When will we prosecute OBAMA for taking unilateral millitary action by ordering the summary execution of 3 black teenagers in international waters? Will you also advocate taking that to the Hague?

Get real. The far left, hate America types never cease to amaze me.

 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N6NKN on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Every day I thank the Lord for bringing us Obama. He is the only one who can bring us back from the brink of Fascism.

Rick N6NKN
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W6EM on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Get real. The far left, hate America types never cease to amaze me."

Hate America? Geesh. I love my country, dude.

As to killing innocents, man have you been smoking something besides tobacco? What of the hundreds of thousands of civilians who died in Baghdad when it was bombed?

If those three pirate/kidnappers had been on US soil, a SWAT team would have done the same thing and taken them out, under the circumstances.

Now, here's a question: How can someone profess to love America if he doesn't love the American people? A question for GW Bush after he flew over New Orleans following Katrina and just looked out the window that was asked by many.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W6EM on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Lee, the US millitary waterboards ITS OWN TROOPS as part of training. We do it to our own people to prepare them."

Yes, exactly what Jesse Ventura said. He knew about it being torture first hand. Enhanced Interrogation Techniques is just a euphamism for torture. Simply a way to make something distasteful sound good. Don't they teach attorneys that in law school?


 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N6RK on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
At last, no power line noise!
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W9WHE-II on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N6NKN writes:

"Every day I thank the Lord for bringing us Obama. He is the only one who can bring us back from the brink of Fascism"

SCARY.
Setting aside how a man with no meaningful expirence can do anything meaningful, we will see how you like totalitarian socialism, ala the now defunct Soviet Union. For you victims of public shcools, that is the old U.S.S.R. that Ronald Regan Defeated in the 1980s.
 
RE: EMP Spell Check  
by W6EM on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"that is the old U.S.S.R. that Ronald Regan Defeated in the 1980s"

Don't quite remember who he was. We had a President REAGAN who negotiated an end to a divided Germany with Russian President Gorbachev.

Next thing, you'll be spelling the 44th President's name something like "OhBama." Roll tide.....



 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KD2BD on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
> I so tired of being "tortured" by liberals over their "tortured" efforts
> to portray water boarding as "torture". Its torture for me to have to
> listen to their 'tortured" arguments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUkj9pjx3H0

 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W6EM on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Cool U-Tube demo.

Hey, Jonathan, you're in 9-land, drop by the radio station in Chicago and you, too, can try your luck at waterboarding....
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KI5II on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I'm curious, exactly what good would emergency communications be after an event like this. We are talking about a nuclear attack on the US. Retaliation would also be nuclear. Now that would be global warming.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by AD7DB on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Read S.M. Stirling's "Dies the Fire." In THAT novel something worse than EMP happens, rendering all electrical devices useless, also affecting gunpowder and explosives, and even diesel and steam engines. The "science" of that was really hard to swallow though, and the heavy dose of Wicca themes throughout the book too, but it's not hard to imagine millions of people dying or going cannibal pretty quick when the supermarkets aren't getting any new deliveries.

What I think's more likely, rather than some country trying to nuke us, is some little scrappy band of terrorists who manage to get ahold of a nuclear device and smuggle it into a city and set it off.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N5ACK on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Yeah, if you WERE to shield your equipment and it survived, who would you be able to talk to?
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KC8VWM on May 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
i have a couple packs of .99 cent hotdogs
A dozen hot dog buns..
12 Pack of beer..
Extra charcoal and starting fluid.

I'm ready..
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by L1D on May 23, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Welcome to eHate.com folks...
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K6JPA on May 23, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Anyone know where I can order a tinfoil-lined orange vest?
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KD0FAT on May 23, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
There are enough real problems to worry about in the world. The failed Bush economy. The failed Bush-Cheney War in Iraq. The failed and unfinished War in Afganistan. The collapse of Pakistan. The threat from Iran. The threat from North Korea. The collapse of American industry sold out by Wall Street. The impending domination of the world economy by China. And Dick Cheney is still running around on the loose, flapping his jaws. Let's get real and worry about something that is actually happening. --Al KD0FAT
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K1CJS on May 23, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Much ado about nothing. If that big a bomb goes off we're all going to have bigger worries than whether there will be any ham radio rigs working.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W5HTW on May 23, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Quit worrying. I don't. Lord Barack is going to protect me.

Ed
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by RADIO123US on May 23, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KD0FAT said "Let's get real and worry about something that is actually happening."

Yeah, like Obama running the auto-industry, (GM and Chrysler) and forcing manufacturers to stop making large cars (CAFE standards), Obama running up TRILLIONS of dollars in debt, Obama trying to ration/socialize health care....Obama's plan for "cap and trade" which wlll at least double our home energy costs each month...Yeah, let worry about things that are actually happening.....
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N7WY on May 23, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Does anybody remember the George Carlin skit on HBO a few years ago? It dealt with the rapid deterioration of society after electric power ceased to function.

So, you build a Faraday cage bid enough to hide your KWM-2A and its power supplies, keep your car batteries charged up just in case (and they survive), and have your trusty generator with a vast supply of gasoline ready.

The event happens, its time for Field Day, how many folks are you going to work before you focus on survival without the majority of the support system you rely on even working? Your car's electronics are fried, so make sure your bicycle is in good condition. It might be good to hit the supermarket for more provisions before you do anything else, and use the self-checkout line. You have 40-60 gallons of water in the heater, that will last your thirsty family a few weeks at best. Then what?
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KE6VG on May 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
So, does this mean my compact fluorescent light bulbs won't work any longer?
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KW4JX on May 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
No, they will be very bright but only for a short time.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W6EM on May 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"So, you build a Faraday cage bid enough to hide your KWM-2A and its power supplies,"

The perforated steel cabinet IS a Faraday cage.


" keep your car batteries charged up just in case (and they survive),"

Oh, but they aren't in a Faraday cage, unless still under the hood of your vehicle.

"and have your trusty generator with a vast supply of gasoline ready."

You'll need the generator just to keep the KWM-2 filaments lit, assuming you have the mobile supply.

When I worked for the utility, many times I was standing in EHV field strengths easily a few hundred kV/m.

Standing, on a dry day, would produce some static effects such as hair being pulled, what little was atop my head, even then. But, when seated inside my Chevy Blazer in the same position, I felt no effects. The vehicle was a decent Faraday cage since the field strength inside the vehicle was essentially zero.

So, put your gear in your car and not to worry. Of course, it probably has a decent metal cabinet anyway.



 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KC2RGW on May 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
But will a fan dipole work with spark gap? Oh wait, nobody knows code anymore anyway.
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by DD5FZ on May 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Paranoia...
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N2EHG on May 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
ust putting something , like a rig, in a metal box will not grantee any protection from emp

and just having a tubes doesn't mean they won't be effected either

common misconception


N2EHG
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W6EM on May 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
OK, prove that your claim that a cabinet isn't a sufficient Faraday cage. You can start by proving Maxwell's equation that an electric field can't exist inside (under) a conductor.

Then, illustrate the path characteristics(and magnitude) of time-varying currents that can couple a time-varying magnetic field sufficiently in conductive paths 10 to 500 miles away to induce sufficiently large currents to burn open circuit elements. Or, where monopoled and single-point grounded, sufficiently high voltages to fail components.

The Compton Effect frees clouds of electrons. It does not cause them to assemble in a single path without cancellation of magnetic fields from other electron motion.

EMP is a big hoax, folks. Envisioned to sell novels and garner speaking fees.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K4YRK on May 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Monday, May 25:
SEOUL, South Korea - North Korea carried out a powerful underground nuclear test Monday — much larger than one conducted in 2006 — in a major provocation in the escalating international standoff over its rogue nuclear and missile programs.

South Korea's Yonhap news agency said North Korea also test-fired a total of three short-range missiles after announcing the atomic test. The first liftoff, widely believed to be a cover for a test of its long-range missile technology, drew censure from the U.N. Security Council.

U.S. President Barack Obama said a nuclear test would constitute an act of "blatant defiance" of the U.N. Security Council and a violation of international law, and would only further isolate North Korea.

North Korea's claims "are a matter of grave concern to all nations," he said, calling for international action in a statement from Washington. "North Korea's attempts to develop nuclear weapons, as well as its ballistic missile program, constitute a threat to international peace and security." 1.
1. AP Wire Report, Monday, May 25, 2009

Threat level just increased another notch, folks.....



 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W6EM on May 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Is this thread about technical aspects of a claimed problem or fear mongering? I think my question has just been answered.

 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by RADIO123US on May 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
K4YRK said "Threat level just increased another notch, folks....."

Yup, and guess what Obama's response will be ???? ...a strong verbal protest.....Obama and his LIBERAL friends don't have the guts to do anything else...

 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KD5URU on May 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I am wearing a hat I made from a roll of aluminum foil,just in case.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KE5JDJ on May 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Every day I thank the Lord for bringing us Obama. He is the only one who can bring us back from the brink of Fascism.
Rick N6NKN

So true....I'm sure that's not the Fascist's "New Word For The Day" guide sticking out Rahm Emmanual's back pocket.

KE5JDJ
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by RADIO123US on May 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KE5JDJ said "So true....I'm sure that's not the Fascist's "New Word For The Day" guide sticking out Rahm Emmanual's back pocket. "

No, it's a copy of the Communist Manifesto...Obama's roadmap for America...
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KE5JDJ on May 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
It's been said here by some that EMP does not exist. Lot's of information out there with historical accounts of actual damage say otherwise. There are Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs in this world. The sheep graze happily away every day, ever nervous of the sheepdogs that guard them. Because of the sheepdogs the sheep get to drift into inane conversation, like...why is the grass green? The wolves, hey, they eat mutton...that's what wolves do.
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by AC5WO on May 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
EMP is just one of many unlikely but potentially very destructive events. The good news is that there is considerable overlap between protecting ham equipment from lightning and protection from EMP. Disconnecting antennas and power when the transceiver is not in use is a good practice that will probably protect it in the unlikely event of EMP while also saving it from certain to happen thunderstorms.

Collect tube equipment if that's what you enjoy, but I'd put an old solid state transceiver in a metal box if I was trying to prepare for an EMP event. Getting electrical power to run the transceiver would be a larger problem than making sure the equipment survived. Maybe EMP preparation is a good excuse to buy that old backup rig that you wanted to buy anyway.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W7KO on May 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
BOY SCOUT MOTTO! STILL GOOD TODAY! "Be Prepared"
 
RE: EMP a Real Hoax  
by W6EM on May 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
There have been a couple of posts that have challenged the phobic rant that continues. No one who claims this to be a threat has been able to substantiate it.

While, on the other hand, others have readily cast the fantacized EMP claim aside.

I'd like to have a meaningful, technical debate if there could be such a thing as a sigificant magnitude pulse from a thermonuclear explosion. I've offered several examples of why the claimed phenomenon is not such a big deal at all.

Instead of a useful dialogue, all that appears is more fear mongering and politics. I guess that's just the nature of this place.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K5END on May 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!


quote, "prove that your claim that a cabinet isn't a sufficient Faraday cage. You can start by proving Maxwell's equation that an electric field can't exist inside (under) a conductor."


Friend, that's easy.

Maxwell's equations are classical physics and are not always relevant to quantum mechanical interactions.

Some wavelengths will breeze right through that metal. Whether this damages semiconductor devices depends on other circumstances.

Moreover, (it sounds like you are referring to Gauss's law) time varying fields require more consideration than the static field applicable to the example you gave.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K5END on May 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

quote, "I'd like to have a meaningful, technical debate if there could be such a thing as a sigificant magnitude pulse from a thermonuclear explosion."

There's no need to debate it. The answer is "yes."

If you disagree, go get an advanced degree in physics or EE and prove otherwise.

It's been done before. We've already had a nuclear physicist explain some of it.

Why reinvent the wheel?

 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K5END on May 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
quote, "The vehicle was a decent Faraday cage"

Not so fast.

That all depends on the wavelengths against you want to protect the contents compared to the size of the APERTURES of the enclosure.

Proof: cell phones work fine from inside cars (unfortunately.)

Your protection you described is 60 HZ or 180 Hz, actually.

Consider how long that wavelength is compared to the openings in your car, such as windows, vents, etc.

Another great example is your microwave oven. The holes-APERTURES-in the door allow visible light to pass just fine, but are too small for the wavelength cooking the food. This is what keeps you from cooking your liver while you watch your popcorn burn.



 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K5END on May 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!


By the way, one event occurs in nature but I don't thnk it has been mentioned.

The plume of an erupting volcano can generate conditions that set off an unstable electromagnetic environment surrounding it, followed by lightning.

I honestly don't know if this qualifies as an EMP, or if any volcano blast in recorded history has been BIG enough to do so, but it is worth mentioning.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W9WHE-II on May 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Why worry about EMP?
Obama's nanny-state will take care of everything AND bail you out! You needn't worry about a thing.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W6EM on May 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Hey, K5END, while you're correct that a physicist has described the Compton Effect to be a shower of electrons and not a "bolt of current", no one has discussed wavelength. You want to make the microwave oven an example? Fine. Then, please, TELL US THE EMP WAVELENGTH!!!!!

You don't know, do you? Or, you'd have stated it.
Any reasonable metal surface will work just fine against random pseudo lightning with a wavelength of several hundred feet. As will surge arresters properly specified and placed on things of importance.

Frankly, if a bunch of random electrons are jarred loose by intense gamma radiation, they'll rattle randomly, most likely. Cancelling each other, perhaps causing some static charge accumulation and discharge akin to lightning. Much like your volcano example. Then again, if they're carried upward in some Herculean hot gas flow, that would be DC, I do believe. Or a pulse of a VERY long duration and inherent wavelength, with little to be concerned about. Remember, like Edison found out, DC doesn't work well in transformers.

If you didn't read my posts, I do recognize the ability of a time varying magnetic field to penetrate just about anything. However, metals can be used to direct it and reduce it via induced circulating currents in shielding.

Let's hear your claim that the effective frequency of EMP is in the GHZ range or higher and that we should put our most prized possessions inside an unused microwave oven........ because the solid aluminum cases on most modern radios just isn't good enough. Hint: No gaps to let those SHF waves through in solid aluminum plate.





 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W6EM on May 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
quote-me:, "I'd like to have a meaningful, technical debate if there could be such a thing as a sigificant magnitude pulse from a thermonuclear explosion."

K5END:
"There's no need to debate it. The answer is "yes." "

I understand things fairly well. Do explain how electrons jarred loose in random fashion from high energy photons will produce a large pulse. I'll be listening.

Your statement, buddy, just isn't good enough.

Early-on, similar statements were made that the Compton effect was the phenom that produces the pulse. Someone knowledgeable in physics then intervened and disputed that claim and explained that electrons are freed from atoms when exposed to high energy radiation.

OK. But, that doesn't put them all together in cogent fashion to form some super-duper current pulse. You tell us how that's supposed to happen, creating a time-varying electromagnetic field. And, while you're at it, tell us the wavelength or at least the magnitude and duration of the current pulse.



 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by WA2JJH on May 27, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Not worried st all.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K5END on May 27, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

quote, "TELL US THE EMP WAVELENGTH!!!!! "


It is approximated by the Fourier Transform of the Dirac Delta function.

If you understand that, then the matter is settled.

If you don't, any further discussion would be a waste of time and need to be postponed until you learn the math.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K5END on May 27, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
More accurately, the reciprocal of the above result times 2 times "c" times pi will give the wavelength(s.)

The shorter (and higher) the pulse, the higher the bandwidth.

EMP is very short and very large, and therefore the frequency distribution extends across the spectrum.

For example:

This is why you can hear the SAME lightning strike on ALL bands (assuming an amplitude sensitive, such as AM or SSB, receiver.)

I hope this helps understand the broad electromagnetic spectrum emitted from an EMP.

Does someone need to write an article on the bandwidth of impulse functions or EMP?

That would be a good article.

But it's the sort of thing I inadvertently assumed anyone familiar with radio technology would already know or at least understand in some fundamental way.

Dropping "code" from the test did nothing to lower the technical level of the licensing exam.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by QRP4U2 on May 27, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Here is some information from the STARFISH High altitude explosion:

http://glasstone.blogspot.com/2006/03/emp-radiation-from-nuclear-space.html
 
RE: EMP a ?????Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W6EM on May 27, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
OK, K5END, you know that a unit impulse produces an infinite spectrum. BFD.

According to a handy online source, it claims several characterizations to an "EMP" event. A short time pulse, a medium time pulse, and a very, very long time pulse. Not just a "dirac-delta/unit impulse" as you claim it to be. So, it sounds like a hodge-podge of disturbances from the electron cloud.

I'm somewhat puzzled by statements that traditional arrestor technology wouldn't be adequate for the short time pulse. I would expect air gaps to be rather slow and ineffective. However, back to back zener/avalanche diode TVSS are quite fast. So are MOVs.

The biggest claimed issues seem to be a large E field envisioned as far as the eye can see from an aerial nuclear event. And, some magnetic field related current surges based upon Kazakstan area experience from Soviet air explosions.

If this is thought to be a serious concern, simulations should be conceived and tested using some of DOE's vast resources.

Create a scaled down version using conventional explosives and see if its an issue. Perhaps, all of these carbon composite surfaced stealth aircraft might be at risk while their metal skinned aerial antiques would not. Somehow, me thinks this issue has been addressed and resolved or dismissed.

I'll keep a roll of aluminum foil at the ready, just in case K5END wants to sling a dirac delta indefinite integral my way. I'm sure I'll have time to unroll it.
 
RE: EMP a ?????Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K5END on May 27, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The Uncertainty Principle


1.) Are you trying to convince me,

2.) or am I trying to convince you?

In case of 1: It's not important to me; think what you want.

In case of 2: It's not important to me; think what you want.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KE5JDJ on May 27, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
http://empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf

http://empcommission.org/docs/empc_exec_rpt.pdf

http://www.cvel.clemson.edu/pdf/MIL-STD-461F.pdf

Explanations here my 8th grader can understand:
http://www.transtector.com/DataSheets/TRANSTECTOR-EMPProtection.pdf
 
RE: EMP a ?????Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W6EM on May 27, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
QED

73.
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by N1OSN on May 28, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
From what I've read there are two requirements for an effective large-scale EMP attack: high altitude and high yield. Specifically, higher than low-orbit satellites and with a yield of >1 megaton, depending on the number of devices used.

No "rogue" nations currently possess the ability to meet either requirement. Neither does or will Al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.

Non-nuclear EMP simulators require large apparatus and large amounts of electricity. They are not something that can be smuggled aboard an airplane in a suitcase.

This is probably not an issue to lose sleep over.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by QRP4U2 on May 28, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
We will always be at risk from some threat, but let's not get carried away.

The EMP pulse, according to Norman Rudie and others, long time nuclear effects experts, says that exoatmospheric bursts can have ranges varying from radii of 10km to 200 km, depending on yield.

The frequencies emitted from these bursts vary from 10 kHz to 100 MHz.

Effects on the power grid would be be most felt from a close-in or atmospheric burst due to high electric fields and resulting arc-overs.

However, the electric power grid people have learned a lot about EMP effects from tests and solar flares since the great NE blackout.

73

Phil - AC0OB
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K5END on May 28, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
There was a Solar coronal mass emission (ejection?) CME in the later 1800's that had a notable effect.

During the CME effect on the Earth, telegraph operators disconnected their lines from the batteries and were still able to operate just as well.

Pretty impressive, eh?

During the upcoming Solar activity increase, be careful what you wish for!
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W6EM on May 28, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"However, the electric power grid people have learned a lot about EMP effects from tests and solar flares since the great NE blackout."

Really? Not to eliminate preventive maintenance of protective relays and the people that know how to do that? Not to patrol/inspect lines? Not to trim or remove trees from transmission corridors?

There has been an incredible loss (on purpose) of the ability to properly maintain and operate "the grid" since lawyers and bean counters took over management of the electric utility industry in the '90s.

All in the interest of improving cash flow and short term return on assets.

I suspect that even includes DOE's Power Administrations as well.

You'd be surprised how much stuff is sitting in a state incapable of proper operation, if called upon to prevent extensive damage and widespread collapse.

There will be more of the NE scenario, just as other infrastructure reveals its unkempt condition from time to time.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K5END on May 28, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
.
The state where I live has its own grid and its own way of doing things.

Never had a blackout.

Knock on watts.
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KC0KCQ on May 28, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Hahahaha! This is the funniest damn thing I've heard all day!
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KE5JDJ on May 28, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
by N1OSN on May 28, 2009

From what I've read there are two requirements for an effective large-scale EMP attack: high altitude and high yield. Specifically, higher than low-orbit satellites and with a yield of >1 megaton, depending on the number of devices used.

No "rogue" nations currently possess the ability to meet either requirement. Neither does or will Al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc.


High altitude is not preferable...25 miles will do quite nicely and...both Iran and Korea possess that capability. Yield helps...but the earth amplifies so it only takes three devices fairly spaced just below the Canadia border to do 90 percent of the damage that many more could do....not such a big deal.
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W8LV on May 29, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Well, my Pixie is mounted in an Altoids box....so maybe it's EMP proof, eh?

I also keep a layer of tinfoil under my ham cap-- the mylar just didn't look right with the telegrapher's visor, cutoff jeans, scrub shirt and bright red crocs...
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by WB5PLJ on May 29, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
A bunch of interesting comments..

you know that we did this to ourselves and some others in the late 50's and early 60's I believe. Some time in there anyway, it was during our first high altitude test detonations. the resulting emp was not intended and caught people off guard, the remaining tests where suspended until a later date I believe. I don't remember it frying anything but temporary disruption of electrical service and completely stopping radio, tv broadcasts(presumably ham radio as well but the documentary didn't mention) completely for some short time. I am going to guess that was five minuets or so, the documentary said but as I said my memory for such details is transient indeed.

not to mention that there are other ways to make an emp. in either case don't you think as an attack detonating a nuke way up there would be slightly less effective than pointing it at a significant location on the ground.

Just remember when the pokeylips comes be sure you can Communicate (tubes? a drained and stowed radio) Shoot (stock up) and make Alcohol (the universal bargaining chip, and fuel) right? I mean that is what all of the pokeylips movies indicate :-) heheheh
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by K5END on May 30, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
.
Terrorists don't want to interrupt communications, water or electricity.

They want sudden, dramatic deaths.

An EMP bomb would be used as part of a much larger scale campaign.
 
thanks to K4YRK, WS4E, WB4JVR and RASTUS  
by NL7SX on June 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
for adding valuable knowledge to an interesting topic. The TROLL factor (chaos/noise theory applies)was very high, even for an EHAM forum!
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by AC8EE on June 3, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I read a lot of the responses all the way down the page until I got to yours. Yours is the best. We don't need the technology. All we need is to be able to provide food and shelter. (and dare I add Love?)

Bless you!
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by AC8EE on June 3, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Previous comment intended to poster named Kassy.......
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KN9D on June 3, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
EMP makes more sense as a weapon to de-stabilize a society or area which you plan to soon occupy with your loyal followers.EMP allows the valuable building,roads,bridges, and land to be used again just as quickly as social order is re-established.
Why wipe out millions if you can convert them to useful clients/slaves/citizens ?

But EMP is certainly way down the list of LIKELY disasters.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W3JKS on June 3, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The REAL reason why we stopped using nuclear warheads for anti-aircraft had nothing to do with EMP production. It was the simple fact that the Defense budget was too strained by the Vietnam War (and its backlash) to maintain that degree of readiness. That and the victory of the Mutually Assured Destruction crowd (and the SIOP wargasm).

My electronics worked very nicely after their close encounter with two shots I attended at Nevada Test Site...

That is why, despite an absolute ORGY of spending on "Homeland Security", our population is fair less protected than we were in 1963! Compare the (sorry) state of Civil Defense during and after the Cuban Missile Crisis with the population protection available today. You can laugh all you want about the "duck and cover" mentality of that era, but we sure should have learned after Katrina (but didn't) that we were not equipped to survive two days, let alone two weeks, without access to the thrifty mart. Granted, we are protected against an anthrax attack in Attumwa, but there is no shelter program, no radiological instrument program to speak of, and VERY few of us radiological defense officers left in circulation.

:-(

Unfortunately, I don't see this changing any time soon. Oddly enough, I received a telephone call from a "supported agency" YESTERDAY looking for information regarding EMP protection of mobile comm systems. I was wearing an evil grin as I forwarded them a packet of stuff I was issued almost 30 years ago --- physics and math of protection doesn't change all that much.

I'm not giving up my Harris tube amps for nobody! :-) And yes, most of the stuff in my shack is protected.

73,
john W3JKS/AAT3BF/AAM3EDE/AAA9SL
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by W9WHE-II on June 5, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"My electronics worked very nicely after their close encounter with two shots I attended at Nevada Test Site...

As someone that worked at the NTS from 1981-1982, I can tell you that the reason your stuff still worked is that the "shots" were 1,000-1,500 feet UNDERGROUND. Now, that's alot of shielding!
 
EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by KD4MGE on June 6, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Very nice and informing article. While although I have so many other things to worry about, such as the current situation of the economy, being able to get a job when I graduate, getting my car functional, etc., it still is important to understand how to prepare for certain catastrophes. After all, doesn't the government rely on us if their system (and the system of the public) of communication fails?

It's understandable that some of us didn't get into the Amateur activity for the emergency-related aspects of the hobby, but for those of us who did or who have decided to opt for this route after getting in the activity, this information is invaluable.

Each generation seems to have its own giant scare. Luckily, most of these scares have not come to fruition, but still, with the threat there, if it ever occurs, some out of society must step up to the plate to take care of the rest, hence where Amateurs would use their expertise and specialty.

Okay, now I'm starting to ramble. :-)
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by WB9NJB on June 8, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KD0FAT, it has been a long time since I read so much ignorance crammed into such a small space. Good work.
 
RE: EMP a Real Threat to Hams and the USA  
by AE6RO on June 8, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
There was a solar flare concurrent with the crash of the Air France Airbus from Brazil.
Not my first choice for what brought it down but without the solar wind, even the small solar flare might have fried the oh-so-delicate avionics.
73, Johnny
 
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