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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

Holes

Alan Applegate (K0BG) on June 24, 2009
View comments about this article!

Holes

I'm convinced that latter day amateurs have an unwritten code when it comes to not drilling holes in their vehicles, new used, or otherwise, to mount antennas. This unwritten code is supported by a number of excuses, some of which are as lame as a one-legged marathoner! No matter which side of the debate you're on, there will no doubt be an ensuing argument. That said, let's look at a few of the more popular excuses, and see if they hold up to scrutiny.


Excuse 1: Mounts leak.

Truth 1: That depends on the mount, and I might add nomenclature isn't necessarily an indication. The NMO mount is a very good example. NMO stands for New Motorola, and is a patented mounting method, typically employed to mount VHF and UHF antennas. The main design advantage of the NMO is the fact the mount can be installed without access to the under surface, as typically required in roof mounting locations. You just have to be careful not drill through a lateral roof brace.

There are several versions of the NMO ostensibly designed to circumvent the original patent. Unfortunately, they're still with us. The one above is a Larsen NMO, and an exact copy of the original design. The one below is knock-off, and even a casual glance will tell you they're not compatible.

In all fairness, both of these mounts are waterproof even when the antenna is removed. This is not always the case.

This is an SO239 type mount. Note the weather cap in the bottom foreground. If you have to remove the antenna for whatever reason, you have to screw on the cap to prevent water from entering the vehicle. By the way, this mount requires underneath access even though the instructions say you don't. There are other mounts that leak, and probably the worst of the bunch was the Antenna Specialists 3/8 inch snap-in mount. Fortunately, I couldn't find a photo of it.

So the bottom line answer is, if you choose the correct antenna and mount, and you follow the installation instructions properly, mounts don't leak!

If you're really into esoteric data, here's a white paper on the NMO's loss characteristics.

Oh! One last item. The NMO wasn't designed to hold an antenna heavier than a few ounces. Nonetheless, at least one pacific rim company sells an HF antenna (it's really a dummy load) which utilizes their version of an NMO. My advice? Save your money!


Excuse 2: Holes depreciate the value of a vehicle.

Truth 2: That depends on a lot of factors not actually related to the mounting hole itself. Contrary to popular belief, the overall condition of the vehicle, and the odometer reading are much more important to a new car dealership than an NMO mount in the center of the roof. If you doubt this premise, then read this. Pay particular attention to the last paragraph on page one.

If the dealer just happens to ask about the left-over mount, tell them it's for a cellphone antenna, and don't elaborate! Too much information (TMI) is never a good idea.

Here's another car fact. Unless the vehicle in question is exceptionally clean appearing, vehicles with odometer readings over 50,000 miles or so, are dispatched to the nearest auto auction, or sold wholesale. In this case, the dealer couldn't care less about dings, dents, and antenna mounts. The same goes for vehicles over 6 model years old.


Excuse 3: I drive a lease car, and the contract says I can't drill holes.

Truth 3: Here is the lease agreement from Ford Motor Company (GM and Chrysler agreements are essentially duplicates). Show me where it says you can't drill holes! I suppose one could read something into paragraph 19 or 23 that doesn't exist, but even that requires a stretch.

Personally, I don't know why anyone would lease a vehicle for personal use (non-business amortization). If the appearance of keeping up with the Jones' is important to you, and you drive less than 15,000 miles per year, a lease might make sense. However, the truth remains, it is a very expensive way to buy a car. If you think otherwise, read this.


Excuse 4: My wife won't let me (it's a family vehicle).

Truth 4: This is the lamest excuse of all, and one that really doesn't warrant an answer. If this is really the case in your household, I'm truly sorry for your plight.


Excuse 5: I use a clip mount/mag mount, so I don't have to worry about body damage.

Truth 5: Au contraire! Here is a photo of a clip mount with obvious damage to the lip of the trunk it is mounted on. Here's the full-res image. You may disagree, but this type of damage is all to prevalent; the norm really.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find a mag mount photo showing what the surface under them looks like after a few months of use. Road debris, primarily metallic brake dust, builds up on the magnet and eventually finds its way under the mount with predictable results.

Mag mounts also increase the ground plane losses, especially at HF frequencies, no matter how many magnets they sport. Installing ground strap to a vehicle hard point is not a cure or substitute.

There is another aspect of mag mounts you seldom read about; they're dangerous. They do come off at highway speeds, and as a result of a vehicle crash. Whether they cause bodily injury is moot; the potential to do so should be enough. Unfortunately it isn't, as there has been two reported deaths caused by them dislodging. And don't be like one, recent, hapless thread poster about the number of deaths being good odds!


There are many more excuses to be sure. Nonetheless, there are a few things you should know before you use one of these excuses.

First, any mounting scheme you use, which doesn't securely mount your antenna permanently to sheet metal, will have a measurable reduction in efficiency, even UHF ones.

Any mount which attaches via a clamp or set screw, will eventually come loose.

Any antenna mounted to a door, hatch, or trunk will have extra G forces applied to it. This fact will exacerbate wear and tear on any mount (and the antenna), especially those held on by clamps and set screws.

Ground straps are not a replacement or substitute for an inadequate amount of metal mass directly under the antenna. To assume otherwise is folly!

RF chokes are an integral part of mobile operation; motor lead chokes are a ubiquitous example. What they aren't, is a substitute for poor mounting. If you need more information on this subject, read this.

One of the biggest RFI factors encountered by mobile operators is common mode currents flowing on the coax and/or motor leads of improperly-mounted antennas, even when correctly choked! Again, ground straps (ad nauseam) are not a cure!&

Mobile operating is just one facet of amateur radio. It can be enjoyable, safe, and trouble free. How enjoyable, safe, and trouble free, is directly proportional to the effort put into your installation. So, stop using excuses, and drill the hole!

Alan, KØBG

www.k0bg.com

 

 

 

 

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
Holes  
by KB4QAA on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Alan,
You scored a perfect "10". Clear, concise, readable with great photos. Thanks.

Bill
 
RE: Holes  
by W9PMZ on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Any mount which attaches via a clamp or set screw, will eventually come loose."

I've had a Diamond clamp mount installed on my Ford Explorer's rear hatch now for 5 years. When I washed the car yesterday it was still there and a tight as when I installed it.

Interesting article, but I've run mobile (HF,VHF) for years now without an antenna hole in the body of the vehicle. But to be honest I did drill a hole in a Taurus for the coax; but not for the antenna. But this is not to say that holes are appropriate at times. It all depends on the installation requirements.

holeless in columbus,

Carl - W9PMZ
 
RE: Holes  
by W9PMZ on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
One other comment,

"some of which are as lame as a one-legged marathoner!"

Some of those one-legged marathoners have had their prosthetics banned from use because this gives them an edge. Just because one maybe one-legged doesn't make them lame.

73,

Carl - W9PMZ
 
Holes  
by KB2DHG on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
OK YEA, I'am gonna drill a hole in my brand new BMW! NOT!
 
Holes  
by K6YE on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Alan,

Great article. I have a pickup truck and the antenna would not have cleared the garage if I had mounted it on the roof. I placed it on the fender and all is good.

Semper Fi,

Tommy - K6YE
DX IS
 
RE: Holes  
by KG4RUL on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Drilling the hole is a piece of cake. Getting the headliner out of the way to accomplish this and to route the coax is a MAJOR PITA!!!
 
RE: Holes  
by KF4HR on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
As always, there are those that will drill holes in their vehicles, and others that won't. Nothing new under the sun. In either case, what's a few DB among friends? In a perfect world the more DB's the better, but in the real world, if a few DB are your concern there are plenty other mobile issues that may get thrown into the mix like; propagation, grounding/bonding, altitude, antenna efficiency, coax loss, interference from buildings; trees, nearby trucks, etc.

And if we're talking HF mobile operation, regardless of how strong your mobile signal is, propagation (or lack there of) will normally make the real difference.

Personally I'll forgo a bit stronger signal and/or better radiation pattern to be able to easily reach my antenna to disconnect it when driving in the garage. But hey... that's just me.

Like chasing the elusive 1.0:1 VSWR, if it makes you feel better to drill a hole in your vehicle, go for it. As long as it's not my vehicle, and I'm not buying your used vehicle, I won't mind one bit. :^))

KF4HR
 
Holes  
by N7KFD on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I'm with KB2DHG although my brand new car is not a BMW, I'm still not drilling holes in it and I'm not married!
 
RE: Holes  
by N0FPE on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks Alan. Great writeup and pictures. And of course there are always the detractors. Some folks just dont want to get a clue. who cares if its a BMW, its just a hunk of steel and plastic that you paid way to much for. I am armed with the right angle drill and the correct holes saw<mine is an Antenex brand>. Have hole saw will travel. Drilled 4 holes in my new 2003 Ford Pickup the day I brought it home and havent had one leak or failure since.
 
RE: Holes  
by K0BG on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
For whatever reason, the photos didn't stay where they should have, and they all enlarged. Better copies of them are on my web site under Antenna Mounts.

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
 
Holes  
by K1DA on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
For this purpose a Greenlee chassis punch in 3/4 makes a very clean hole. That being said I use a tiny Larsen mag cell antenna mount with a 2/440 whip and because our local repeater network is so good I have all the coverage I need. If I have to park in a "questionable" area, in the trunk it goes and I unhook the control head. I don't think radio theft is as common today as during the CB craze but a vehicle with lots of sticks on it will probably attract the attention of mouth breathers looking for GPS, IPODs, and radar detectors.
 
RE: Holes  
by KD8CPP on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Very nice. I have 3 NMOs on my trunk from larsen. They are great antennas and great mounts. My mom freeked out when I had the hole saw out, but now, after I showed the damage to my GF's mom's car (Yes, my GF is a ham too....I met her at our EmComm meetings) and the news report from one of the mag mount deaths, she told me to go ahead and drill the holes. They work great! I have a NMO27 antenna and talk around the state on a regular basis. I also have a quarter wave for the HT's convertacom and then a dual band for the mobile.

Again, very nice article

-Holed in West Virginia

Tyler
 
RE: Holes  
by K5ILF on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Especially section 4---if you receive this reply from the XYL, you are going to have a bunch more problems in your relationship than just punching a hole in the roof of the family care.

I have been punching holes in cars since 1955 and have had no problems, ever!

bill in las cruces
 
RE: Holes  
by KD5NVC on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Good article,

For those who find this "hard to read" then please, bring forth your knowledge and expertise on the subject. I find these articles good for the ham community at large and if you do not…. It’s better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt….
 
RE: Holes  
by WI7B on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Can't get enough articles about drilling holes. One of the toughest jobs out there in ham radio.

73,

--- *Ken
 
RE: Holes  
by WB2WIK on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: Holes Reply
by KG4RUL on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Drilling the hole is a piece of cake. Getting the headliner out of the way to accomplish this and to route the coax is a MAJOR PITA!!!<

::I agree, it certainly can be. The way I've been dealing with this for many years is to have my local Automotive Upholstery shop (there are several close by, but I have a favorite one about 3 miles from the house) do it for me. I bring the punch and the antenna mount with coax. They remove the headliner. I punch the hole and mount the system. They replace the headliner, using exactly the same tools as the factories use to stretch it and do it perfectly.

Takes them 10 minutes, when it takes me two hours and I still can't do it as well as they can.

They've never charged me for this, but I do bring a dozen donuts and some coffees for the guys in the shop.

WB2WIK/6
 
RE: Holes  
by WB9NJB on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
This is just the usual bluster from Alan. Regardless of his "facts", a hole in your car will depreciate the trade-in value, and will definitely cost you when you return a lease car. I ran this past a car dealer general manager client of mine and he laughed out loud. Holes cost.
 
RE: Holes  
by KB2FCV on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I DEFINTELY drill holes in the car. It's a much cleaner install. I am going to drive my vehicle in the ground - why not have a proper install? Drill away!

The very morning I picked my new van up 5 years ago from the dealer with 13 miles on it, the first place I drove it was home where I had my drill, new NMO mount and radio ready. By the afternoon I was on the air.

Heck, even when I had a rental for a month, I had a trunk lip mount and the radio connected to the battery. Ok ok, the trunk lip is not a drilled mount but that was an actual rental car.

I think the people who own their cars and use mag mounts, etc.. that looks lame. First off the mag mount is gonna scratch the heck out of the roof as it moves around, gets grit under it and ruins a huge chunk of the pain. Not to mention, the unsightly wire that now runs across your roof and then through the door jam. Ever wonder what good things your door is doing to that coax every time you open and shut the door? Nah, mag mounts arent' for me. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
 
RE: Internet lawyers  
by W9WHE-II on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The author asks:
"Show me where it says you can't drill holes".

RIGHT HERE:

"19. DAMAGE REPAIR You are responsible for repairs of All Damage whichare not a result of normal wear and use. [Drilling holes is not normal wear and use] These repairs include, but are not limited to, those necessary to return the Vehicle to its pre-accident condition...."

Take it from a licensed attorney, this clause could be successfully invoked to force you to replace (or pay the cost of replacing) the drilled pannel with OEM parts.

So, while you can drill a hole, a leasing company likely can force you to replace the drilled pannel.


Don't drill holes in a leased vehicle unless you are prepared to pay for it.
 
Holes  
by KD8OK on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Just a thought for those who say they would never drill a hole in a new car...did you buy the car for you, or for the next person?

I have no problems with drilling. I have done it many times and will do it again. It's a cleaner installation and it just works better.
 
RE: Holes  
by K9FON on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Heck i dont need to worry about drilling holes in my 20+ year old car! It has enough rust holes instead! I only run 2 meter mobile and I just use a trunk mount i had leftover from my CB mobile antenna.
 
RE: Holes  
by WB2WIK on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I've installed permanent antenna mounts in every leased car I've ever had (six of them).

Regardless of the "rules," it's never been an issue when I turned the car in two years later for another one.

My leased cars have been a Pontiac, two Buicks, a Mercedes, a Lexus, and a Lincoln Town Car.

One time the guy looking over the car asked about the NMO mount in the roof and I said it was for a long-range cell phone antenna. He took note of that but never mentioned it again, nor did it impact the swap-in for the next leased car. I think it's a non-issue almost always.

I always get "high mileage" leases, though: 40,000 miles a year or so. I think they take the trade-ins to auction, or sell them pretty inexpensively since after two years they already have 80K miles on them.

WB2WIK/6
 
RE: Holes  
by N6AJR on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I drill holes in my pickup, for many antennas over the years. I use a trunk lip mount on the car.

an easy way to solve the problem is to buy an extra trunk lid for your car at the junk yard. mount the antenna in the junk lid. when selling the car , replace it with the original trunk lid, presto , no holes.

I have been looking for a couple of years for a 3' X 3' X 3' hole for the back yard, on Ebay, so far no luck. I need the hole for a tower miount.

now will that hole degarade my value on the house??? :)
 
RE: Holes  
by N6AJR on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I drill holes in my pickup, for many antennas over the years. I use a trunk lip mount on the car.

an easy way to solve the problem is to buy an extra trunk lid for your car at the junk yard. mount the antenna in the junk lid. when selling the car , replace it with the original trunk lid, presto , no holes.

I have been looking for a couple of years for a 3' X 3' X 3' hole for the back yard, on Ebay, so far no luck. I need the hole for a tower miount.

now will that hole degarade my value on the house??? :)
 
RE: Holes  
by N6AJR on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
oops the keyboard got stuck under the radio..

another way to do this is to buy a MFJ 310.


this gizmo is like an upside down U the you roll up in the rear window.

you put a rubber duck ( or larger) antenna on the outside and roll up the window. this puts the duck above the roof line of the car..

and the 7 foot long cable hooks on tour ht in the car.

instant outside antenna.


and the wife can't complain eiother, , just roll down the window and remove the mount.


so there, naner naner...:)
 
Holes  
by K2ID on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Even Dr. Freud would see the obvious connection with some Hams' obsession with long antennas, drilling and holes. Is it really just about a hole???? Hi Hi
 
Holes  
by K0RGR on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I'm a real non-believer on this one. I'm not opposed to drilling holes, but I like to park my vehicles in the garage, and the city parking garages are much worse. I abhor getting out of the car in the winter to change antennas.

I mount my VHF/UHF antennas where they function reasonably well while allowing me to go in and out of garages.

I know it's blasphemy, but for the last 10 years or so, I used Radio Shack thru-the-glass antennas mounted in the middle of the rear window of the little SUV. They were flexible enough to go in and out with no trouble.

Now, I have a trunk-lip mount on the hood, on the opposite side of the hood from the broadcast radio antenna. I use a 19" whip around town, which is shorter than the truck, and I have no trouble working the local repeaters. For long road trips, I have a 60" 'gain' antenna that sticks up well above the truck, and definitely works better than the 19" job.

I used this arrangement on a very tall SUV for over a decade with no problems at all.

The point I'm making is that I have found very few situations on 2 meters where I needed the extra performance, but the convenience of mounting it elsewhere is a big plus.
 
Holes  
by N7NSL on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Great article except you went over the top with respect to the wife issue. I had to show your response to the wife factor and well I'm now banned from using eHam.net. Sigh!
With regard to the 'hole' issue, I've always thought that the real hams have holes in their roof and the others - well.....
 
RE: Holes  
by KE7SAK on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I never get why some people care so much about what other DO or DON'T do?

Drill holes in my car...
Don't drill holes in my car...

Who cares! It is MY stuff. I never give an excuse for things I do or don't do to my stuff. I do my things my way, you do things your way.
 
Holes  
by KE4DRN on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
hi,

Drill Baby Drill!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhvRQyRdVEI

here in the south, the dealerships and
lease companies are more concerned about
hail damage then an antenna hole in the roof.

73 james
 
RE: Holes  
by NJSIDEBANDER on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I've used pretty much every mobile antenna mount out there, but nothing beats drilling a hole in the center of the roof or trunk....
 
RE: Holes  
by NE3R on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Fine, don't drill holes, what do I care, just don't get bent out of shape when I tell you how bad your signal sounds when you are on the edge of the repeater's coverage area.

Actually, my wife won't let me drill a hole, in her car :). I do drive it a lot, since that is where all of the car seats for the children are. So, I have one of those lip mounts with a little 19" dual band antanna. Since it is a van, I so want to put the antenna on a nice NMO mount in the midpoint of the roof. It would be so much better than the trunk NMO mount on my coupe. Oh well.

Oh, you can always put the hole in the center of the circle scratchy part that the magnetic mount leaves behind.
 
RE: Holes  
by K2JVI on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Since I buy cars, pay for them, and drive them until they fall apart, the issue of resale value to me is a non-factor. I have drilled holes in cars, both used and new and never thought twice. In terms of resale value, this is what I told my daughter's math teacher at conference time; "The imaginary numbering system is far more real to me that the resale value of a car!" The teacher laughed like crazy..

73..

Bob.
 
Holes  
by NE3R on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Where did all the comments go?
 
RE: Holes  
by WB2WIK on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Where did all the comments go? Long time, passing.

Where did all the comments go? Long time ago.

Where did all the comments go? Gone to eHam, everyone.

When will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?
 
Holes  
by AC0GR on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Fine... I'll ask again.

Out of curiosity, what kind of antenna is on that trunk mount? It looks to large for that style of mount to begin with.
 
RE: Holes  
by WX1F on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Well...we know who the biggest contributor is now! If anyone posts bad stuff about Alan..he gets it deleted!! Betcha this post will be gone within 5 min after I press my "enter" key!!
 
RE: Holes  
by K7MH on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Man up and drill a hole!!
 
RE: Holes  
by WB9QVR on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The reason that I don't drill holes in my vehicles is really due to one thing - I've never really seen the need. Yes, I know that in theory the best place to put an antenna is in the center of the roof. However, for years I've used trunk lip mounts and even magnetic mount antennae and have always been more than pleased with the coverage that those installations provided. Right now I run a half-wave Larsen on a trunk lip mount on my Xterra's rear hatch and can access repeaters 30-50 miles away. A roof-mounted antenna would have to be no bigger than a quarter-wave (due to the overall height) and I really don't see how it could perform any better than what I'm currently using - not to mention the fact that it would be a bear to install. At trade-in time I can usually remove the antenna, mount, and cable in about five minutes leaving virtually no evidence that one was ever installed on the vehicle.

In addition, there is one glaring disadvantage to using hole-mounted antennae (especially on the roof) that I don't believe has been mentioned. I've seen multiple instances where low-hanging branches or other obstacles have hit such antennae causing them to tilt backward torquing the mount toward the rear of the vehicle while bending the roof along with it. Perhaps the hole itself doesn't affect resale value but a bowed roofline certainly does.

What it comes down to is this - if a person wants to drill holes in their vehicle then by all means go for it. However, there are plenty of alternative that work quite well (and in fact may actually be better in some instances).
 
Holes  
by N8QBY on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Wasn't this horse beaten a few short months ago? Everyone has their reasons for drilling, or not drilling holes. Everyone has their own opinions about drilling holes. There is no wrong reason for not drilling. It is up to that individual. Let's move on.
 
Holes  
by N8QBY on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Anyone ever hear from Vito? I am sure he would have had something to throw out there.
 
Holes  
by KB8UEY on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Would I drill a hole in "any" vehicle to mount an antenna, of course not! There are those who have a family car that just plain don't want an antenna on the car, and that is fine. There are those with "luxury" cars, obviously some of those would look hideous with antennas all over them, just look at the parking lot of your local hamfest for examples. Then you have vehicles that it works well on, just about every vehicle I have ever owned. Of course I have always done VHF/UHF mobile. I tried HF, but my poor little S-10 just has too much rust and can't get a good ground, lord knows I have tried! Overall, good article, but some just don't want holes in their vehicles and that is their choice be it legit or lame.
 
Holes  
by KB3LAZ on June 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Nice wright up. That being said, I don't operate mobile so I guess it is a moot point for me. However if I did then I would most likely drill a hole in my car, strategically placed of course.


73,Laz
 
RE: Holes  
by W9PMZ on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Where did all the comments go?

Well when I first read the comments there were more; but the weren't politically correct. But neither is a "one legged marathon runner". (for me the removed comments were a good laugh at 5AM).

I suppose the moderator is the arbiter of free speech here and perhaps lacks a full sense of humor. But then again this is a public forum.

One other thought, with the recent court ruling on bloggers (their identities are no lomger protected); will eHam eliminate anonymous postings?

73,

Carl - W9PMZ
 
Holes  
by K1CJS on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The only thing I'll agree with is that mag-mount antennas are dangerous. The main point is that the antenna is solidly attached.

I've had a clamp on on one of my cars since I bought it. Its still there and still tight, and it hasn't deformed the trunk lid at all. It all depends on whether you want to drill that hole, and some of us don't!

'You have to drill the hole to get a good mounting and ground plane connection' just isn't true--in many cases. The fiction that it is is just that--fiction.
 
Holes  
by K8QV on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I have used several mounts and antennas on several vehicles. I came to some conclusions over the years.


VHF-UHF antennas: In practice, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. Theoretically, a 5/8 wave mounted through the center of the roof is a superior radiator. However, I am in an urban area and don't need to squeeze out every bit of RF to hit several repeaters and work everybody I know on simplex. A 1/4 wave mag mount on the back corner of the roof of the VUE is more than sufficient. Unless you have unusually long distances to cover or want to DX on 2 meters, an 18 inch whip on a mag mount anywhere on the car should be sufficient.

HF antennas: You DO want the best antenna you can manage for HF. It seems to me that hole mounting with the superior grounding and mechanical stability is a big plus. Other methods of mounting do not work as well on HF, but a lip mount worked fine and caused no damage to the vehicle. I've had no damage from mag mounts either - the key is don't move them and don't use an antenna that's too big. A less than perfect antenna will still provide plenty of mobile contacts, but if you want to break pileups - drill the hole!

Holes: At trade-in time, I've found that holes ARE a problem. You may find an individual who doesn't care, but dealers see them as a negative. On an otherwise nice car, they will want to patch and paint, which means they need to put in at least a couple of hundred dollars (minimum) to make it right. It doesn't hurt as much as rust or dents, but it still is deducted from the value of the trade.

So if radio is your life, and you simply must have the best signal, whether you need it or not, go ahead and drill. For most of us, a reasonable compromise is sufficient.
 
RE: Holes  
by CROWBAR on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Of course they are. Dealers on the left coast might not care but her on the right coast they damn sure do.


re: Holes: At trade-in time, I've found that holes ARE a problem.
 
RE: Holes  
by K9FON on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Thats why i drive a rusty 20+ year old vehicle. I can drill holes and i know darn well i will never be able to trade it in! Thats why i buy older cars. I buy them cheap and drive them until the wheels fall off and then when it gives up the ghost i sell it to a salvage yard!! I have never had a new car and i never will. I buy a car to drive not to look good for people. IMHO a vehicle is a $$$ pit and the only function a vehicle serves is a transportation device not an ego booster.
 
RE: Holes  
by W6WBJ on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I would NEVER drill a hole in a vehicle to mount a ham antenna! Ham radio is not important enough to me to do that. Anybody who'd drill a hole in their car for a ham antenna has really screwed-up values, IMHO.
 
Holes  
by WZ1P on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
It's a car, not your valuable hide! DRILL!!

Who are you saving it for? It's kind of like pick-up truck owners that have a bedliner. Like the 60's housewife that had every piece of furniture covered with clear plastic. Get the idea?

DRILL!!

Dan
 
RE: Holes  
by KG2V on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
WB9NJB - Tade In value? I will tell you right now, that holes didn't cost me a dime at my last 2 trade ins - then again, the cars were an average of 15 years old, and had around 180K miles on them. I don't really think the dealer cared - saw both cars within a week at the scrap yard.

Cars are a tool - I buy them, I maintain them, and I use them, until they are used up - then I buy a new one. Things are a lot easier on the bank account that way. This time around, I figure it will be slightly different, as I figure my daughter will be getting her drivers license in about 6 years. I'll give her the now 4 YO car - and get a new one then
 
RE: Holes  
by W4AWN on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I have to agree with W6WBJ. I would NEVER drill a hole in a vehicle to mount a ham antenna! Ham radio is NOT important enough to me to do that...unless vehicle is junk!
 
RE: Holes  
by N4NOO on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I have a full size Suburban and I have 4 NMO mounts thru the roof with one 1/4 wave UHF, one 5/8 VHF, one collinear UHF and one VHF/UHF dual-band all Larson brand. They all work great! I also have a Shakespeare #4245-1 Rigidized Military Spring Mount with a Hi-Q 6/160 RT MC-3-H antenna mounted on the rear bumper. So I have five "holes" in my car and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Remember, second place is the first loser!
 
RE: Holes  
by K9FON on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KG2V. Amen. You see the same way i do. The last car i had developed a cracked engine block due to a coolant leak due to a split hose. Well you know were it went. To the salvage yard. And it had a NMO mount right on the top of teh roof for a 5/8 wave 2 meter antenna. I drove the snot out of that car too. :-)
 
RE: Holes  
by N1KDO on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
It's just a car! Drill it!

I have drilled my prior three, and current car.

Only once did the dealer ask about it at trade time, and I told him I would leave the wiring in at no extra charge. That was the end of that story.

I don't believe the installed mount decreases trade value much, if at all, in most cars. Would I drill a shiny new S65? I doubt it. But I have drilled my Hondas and Fords and I will continue to do so.

There are many advantages of the antenna mounted in the center of the roof, with no wires to flap, magnets to slide, etc.

Jeff
 
RE: Holes  
by WA8MEA on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
It's just a car! Drill it!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++==
Can't. I lease. Nuff said.

For those who want to give me a sermon on how much of a money waster leasing is....save it. I had a bigger lesson in money wasting by sending in 5 3/4 years of car payments on a vehicle, only to have it stolen....just months before the final payment was due. THAT is what you call money wasted. So what I do now is lease one new, dependable vehicle which the XYL runs around in....and I have an old beat up truck which I bought used and paid cash for.

73, Bill - WA8MEA
 
RE: Holes  
by WB2WIK on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
MEA: "Mysterious disappearance" insurance is available in all 50 states as far as I know. We have it on all our vehicles, it costs very little (I think about $200 a year, for all five cars). It covers "mysterious disappearance" of the vehicles, which includes theft. Ours is from 21st Century Insurance, which may be a California-only company, but I know I've had it with State Farm as well, in the past.

73

Steve WB2WIK/6
 
RE: Holes  
by WB2WIK on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
BTW re "leases:" I pulled the paperwork from my last one, a 2004 Lexus. I had two holes in it, one in the center of the roof, another (same 3/4" hole for an NMO) in the center of the trunk lid.

Of course, I left the antenna mounts there so there weren't any visible "holes," only the mounts.

I paid $211 at trade-in to cover "extra mileage" that I put on the car, but there is no mention of the antenna mounts nor any deduction for them from the Lexus dealer.

I left the cables, too, obviously. Just hanging behind the dashboard, not connected to anything.

So, I left $34 worth of NMO mounts with the car (they were $17 each). Not so bad.

WB2WIK/6
 
RE: Holes  
by WA8MEA on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
WB2WIK/6:

All the insurance covered was the remaining debt on the car (GAP) and the Bluebook value. Not much there....

I'd rather pay two/three years of $200/$275 payments and turn the car back in to the dealer rather than pay $400 per month and have it stolen after five years of coughing up payments.

>>I paid $211 at trade-in to cover "extra mileage"....

THAT'S the reason why they didn't soak you for the holes. You traded it in. I'm assuming, therefore, you bought/leased another vehicle from that fine dealership. Had you dumped the vehicle off and took your business to another mfg's dealership, I bet you would have paid for those "holes". (Paying for extra mileage is a given everywhere you go....)

Besides....I don't think I'd better drill anyway since the President of GM, Barrack Obama, might want me to pay an extra tax on those holes.

73, Bill - WA8MEA
 
RE: Holes  
by W2CSH on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
My Bentley already has a hole drilled into it for the Iridium satellite phone why not another for my radio? I currently use a window mount antenna which is the worst of all worlds. My wife won't let me put a radio in the RR Corniche convertible because she thinks ham radio is for commoners and the great unwashed. Of course the HF radio in the Gulfstream can be patched into the main salon when I want to talk to my minions while I'm flying over them on the way to the beach house in the Grand Caymens. So I guess if you are unfortunate enough to have a common old BMW then I guess you wouldn't want to drill a hole in it.
 
RE: Holes  
by WA8MEA on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I just thought of something....

The media is always talking about mortgages being "under water".

I wonder how many of us have cars that are "under water"????

Surely with Pontiac going belly up and GM going bankrupt, there are thousands of us out there with vehicles that have lost THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of dollars in value.

Or....maybe I'll keep it as a "collectors item" and sell it to Jay Leno some day....

73, Bill
 
RE: Holes  
by N4JTE on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Not sure if I will ever cut a "hole" in any of my vehicles for a mobile antenna that will at best be 10% efficent on the the bands I like, 40,20 and 80 meters, when I feel the need to work mobile I will park and put up a quick fiberglass push up mast and run a couple of raised radials. Besides the obvious difficulty of driving and talking on ham radio and the differant evolving rules concerning hand held cell phones etc, I'll stick to a well grounded mag mount when I feel the absolute need to communicate while driving between two 10 wheelers in a snow storm.
If your only way to communicate on the ham bands is running mobile than of course check the authors website that has extensive info for that approach.
No holes for me, aint worth the improvement, still 10% efficency hole or correctly done mag mount.
Regards
Bob
 
RE: Holes  
by W2IRT on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
There's actually a great tool made specifically for NMO antenna installations. It's called the Antenex HS-34 and is about $20. Just Google the term for someone who sells it. Works like a champ and won't damage headliners.
 
Holes  
by KB9RQZ on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
it is amazing at the way sme people find a need to tell other how to run their stations
 
Holes  
by N0XMZ on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I had no qualms about drilling when I installed the ball mount for my HF antenna. I've done those a few times before. For some reason, drilling for NMOs just made me too nervous because I just didn't see the benefit. That is, until I actually disassembled a trunk-lip mount a couple of weeks ago and was appalled by how poorly it was built.

Today I finally replaced 2 trunk lip mounts with holes/NMOs for my Larsen 2/70 and 900 MHz antennas. It looks a lot cleaner now. All it took was a 3/4" hole and they were much easier than the ball mount.

Another reason to drill is to keep water out. With the coax going past the weather-stripping, water got into the trunk by running along the coax ("capillary action"). I still have a little water getting in from the small cable for the GPS receiver (tested at a car wash) but I don't plan on drilling for that one.

Now I just wish I hadn't waited so long!
 
RE: Holes  
by K6IHC on June 25, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Why don't expensive fire engines, ambulances, and police vehicles use mag mounts and trunk lip mounts for their antennas? Nobody seems to mind drilling holes in the roof of a $500,000 fire engine.
 
RE: Holes  
by N3UJX on June 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Since we are talking holes, any of you "Holey-Men" recommend a good, quality 3/8 24 mount to permanently(yes holes!!) mount on my trunk lid?
 
RE: Holes  
by WB2WIK on June 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: Holes Reply
by N3UJX on June 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Since we are talking holes, any of you "Holey-Men" recommend a good, quality 3/8 24 mount to permanently(yes holes!!) mount on my trunk lid?<

::I'd go to the local Motorola 2-way shop for one. The "ham/CB" 3/8-24" ball mounts on the market today -- from what I've seen -- are not so great, kind of light duty. Hustler sells a stainless steel one but it's "light duty" and won't support big antennas. A VHF whip should be fine, but I wouldn't use it for a Screwdriver or anything big.

My local Motorola shop has some bigger, heavier duty ones. I have no idea where they get them -- probably via Motorola!

WB2WIK/6
 
Holes  
by KD8Z on June 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
If you don't like drilling holes into your American made pickup try one of these. I have one, works great, no leaks, fits under your cab mounted brake light and installs in less than an hour. You can mount antennas and/or lights along with anything else you may want on your P/U roof.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NTESearch?storeId=6970&N=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=baja&Nty=1&D=baja&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Dx=mode+matchallpartial
 
RE: Holes  
by K7BAB on June 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I bought a newtronics/hustler trunk lip mount and was assured that it would not bend the lip or scratch the finish. Surprise: it scratched the paint, bent the lip and wobbled. It was used with the antenna newtronics/hustler recommended.

The problem was that the mount was only secured at the lip end.

In disgust, I drilled a hole in the trunk and mounted a regular four-hole base on it. No problems.
 
RE: Holes  
by W7COM on June 26, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
@AC0GR: "Out of curiosity, what kind of antenna is on that trunk mount? It looks to large for that style of mount to begin with. "

It's a Yaesu ATAS-120A screwdriver. Heavy thing with that needs a PL-259 mount. Even with 5" washers one warped my diamond plate workbox. I still haven't found a good solid way to mount one that still follows most of k0bg's rules. Not the best antenna but does have the feature of not needing control cables.

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/5984
 
RE: Holes  
by ZAEDAH on June 27, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Not sure if you had received a reply but it looks to me to be an ATAS-120 from Yaesu (Vertex)

KI4SHF
Jack
 
KENTUCKY WATERFALL  
by PLANKEYE on June 27, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
What's the next article topic going to be?

BUGS
Don't be afraid to install your attic antenna.

This article is silly.

Life is what happens when your busy making other plans.

PLANKEYE
 
RE: Holes  
by NO6L on June 28, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KB8UEY (June 24, 2009), has the only reason, "I just don't want to". Why make excuses? If you don't want to mount an antenna, don't. As for my "beater" pickup, I mount what I want, and get this, my wife's great about it even if she weren't studying for her exam.

73
de NO6L
 
Holes  
by KE5ICG on June 28, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Alan,

Another good article. I'd just like to echo here -- if you want a hole for a mount, but are uncomfortable about drilling it yourself, go see the communications shop in your area that mounts mobile antennas for the police, fire and other pub-serv vehicles used in your area. I've used 2 different shops in my area and found my local Motorola and Vertex shops to be very helpful and reasonably priced. They are glad to see hams come in too. See the big picture? If you want a good mobile installation it ought to be as permanent as possible and done neatly and correctly.

BTW, see Alan's website for tips/tricks/etc -- always a good read.

73 -- Ray KE5ICG
 
Holes  
by W3HR on June 28, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>>there has been two reported deaths caused by them dislodging<<

I can't seem to find a link to these stories? The only mention I find of a mag mount mobile antenna death is on K0BG's website.
 
Holes  
by KE5EOT on June 28, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Excuse 4: My wife won't let me (it's a family vehicle).

Truth 4: This is the lamest excuse of all, and one that really doesn't warrant an answer. If this is really the case in your household, I'm truly sorry for your plight."

Care to explain this one? My wife's car is hers. Its appearance is her business. She doesn't tell me I can't put an antenna on my truck, and I don't tell her that she has to have one on her car. She allows one since she knows how much I enjoy the hobby, but it's her decision. Are you one of those men that demands total control of every piece of property in the family?
 
RE: Holes  
by N6TZ on June 28, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I own the car !
The car does not own me !
... _._

N6TZ
 
Holes  
by KA8NSG on June 28, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Drill baby drill! 90% of all the antennas I ever installed over the last 30 years, whether if they were on my vehicle or somebody elses were drilled hole mounts! They are less maintaning and good a better job than all the rest.
I also used my share of mag mounts and clip mounts on my own vehicles. Debating on adding 2 more antennas to my present "RedNeck Cadillac" May be up grading to a good used mini van yet where I can have more surface area for antennas and more room for goodies up near my driver's seat! I have 7 antennas now on my little Ford Escort!
You want your mobile units to perform, then shut up, quit bitching and drill the holes! Simple solution for a simple subject. We have enough idiots making a big deal out of BS ok
 
Holes  
by G6NJR on June 29, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I drive a motability Car and my lease contract quite plainly states if i cause any damage fitting 3rd party equipment to the vihicle i have to pay up in full for the repair upon handing the vehicle back and before getting delivery of the replacment vehicle so holes in wings and roofs are a very big NO NO
 
Holes  
by KE7VUX on June 29, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Oh! One last item. The NMO wasn't designed to hold an antenna heavier than a few ounces."

OK, so what's the latest fad for big heavy HF antenna mounting in a sheet metal roof, that is water proof, "clean" looking, and readily adaptable to multiple antennas?

Should I stick with the old tried and true 3/8" stud mount with an SO-239 underneath? Or more likely a 90-deg adapter and some coax, which might leave a bulge under the headliner that the NMO doesn't.

Maybe I need to spring for the larger surface area "heavy duty" 3/8 mounts?

Sure would be nice to have an assortment of standard NMO mounts available that could be used for any variety of antennas as the situation warrants, instead of having to plan ahead on how many VHF/UHF/GPS/Cell antennas I want/need vs HF/11M antennas (how many NMO vs 3/8 mounts)
 
RE: Holes  
by KE4DRN on July 1, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
hi

one solution is to order a leased car
with an external cell antenna installed.

even a leased car can be stolen or damaged
in an accident, GAP insurance will cover the
difference in what the insurance company pays
for the vehicle and what the leasing company
expects it to be worth at turn in.

the antenex hs34 is great, use a pair of
1/4" ceramic magnets to help locate where to drill,
place one under the roof and the other will line up
when placed on the top of the roof, mark it and
drill baby drill (if you decide to drill).

place the magnet under the roof in a plastic
zip bag and it will attract the scrap metal
while you drill.

73 james
 
Holes in the roof of your car?  
by NH6EV on July 1, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I have installed hundreds of antennas on Police vehicles. The most important things are the size of the hole it can't be to big I can't remember the correct hole saw size, then clean up the metal fragments after drilling. If there is any wind put a circle of masking tape as a fence around the drilling location about 8 inches away to keep the metal pieces close so they can be cleaned up easily. Don't let any metal pieces escape. Carefully vacuum the metal up and wash the vehicle well afterward. Plant yourself and use the appropriate power in drilling, don't go full blast right away. Regarding the liner I use a piece of 1 x 2 wood pushing it in carefully from the side and then turning it so the 2 inch side holds the liner down. Then I feed the cable carefully. I do admit the liners are very different on other vehicles but crown vics are easy to do as are most Ford vehicles. Setting the roof mount carefully and aligned correctly with a little silicone grease will make a waterproof antenna connector. We use a lot of on-glass antennas these days and the low profile models instead of whips on patrol cars, the system is 800 mhz.
By the way on my own car I don't have any antenna installation though I have had in the past. I use a handheld occasionally and my cellphone frequently as I drive these days.
I have a lot of ideas for home antenna installations cable paths through walls etc. I don't feel there is enough practical input to new Ham operators procedures may be quite simple if approached logically.
 
Holes  
by NC2F on July 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Most certainly leased vehicles would be hit with repair fees (the lease agreement is quite clear from a legalese standpoint, i.e. the all encompassing "damage not from normal & tear"). I've never leased, so this really isn't a consideration in my own decision process of how to mount an antenna.

But with regard to drilling, it's a personal decision with many fine alternatives. If they were candidates for an antenna, I wouldn't drill into my Aluminum Airstream, or my fiberglass Corvette. I do, however, prefer trailer hitch solutions. All vehicles can be equipped with a trailer hitch, even the smallest of cars whether or not you tow anything. And once the hitch is on, you can go about mounting to the hitch in many fashions such as a receiver mount solution, or even a custom mount welded to the hitch frame itself. The good news is the hitch can come off when you part with the car should you choose to remove it.

Anyhow, there is no wrong way as long as it is secure at speed, allows for proper grounding, and doesn't violate existing state motor vehicle equipment laws...
 
Drilling Holes: A Commercial Solution  
by AE4FB on July 3, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Drilling Holes: A Commercial Solution
Dr. M. DeWitt Adams de AE4FB

In response to Alan Applegate K0BGs fine article on holes. http://www.eham.net/articles/21781

Hell, it’s about time somebody brought the terrible affliction of Mobilecom Holophobia (MH) into the open. This affliction surely debilitates ham radio operators more than any other part of the population. The most notable symptoms are an embarrassing dB deficiency combined with hearing loss for the mobile operator. In addition there is the negative psychological impact on a suffer of this dread disease when he encounters a “Real Hams Do It With Holes” or a “Pussy Whipped Hams Use Mag Mounts”, bumper sticker. Mr. Applegate is to be commended for bringing this curable condition into the light of day.

The cure is of course really nothing. And it is nothing from which holes are made. After all if there were something there, it wouldn’t be a hole, would it? Holes in ham radio are probably one of the few special cases in engineering where we are able to get something for nothing. From a hole in our vehicle we get dBs of gain on transmit and receive, better signal to noise ratio, neater installation and the feeling that we haven’t compromised the Zen perfection of our radiated mobile signal. All from nothing.

The inspiration for my company, Gain Hole Signal Solutions Ltd., was based on some of the thoughts above. For over ten years we at GHSS have been able to offer mil-spec stick on holes with a no holes barred unconditional guarantee of from 3 to 9 dB Gain over a mag mount (depending on frequency) without ever having a single hole returned under the guarantee.... that we know of.

All our holes cost only $5.95, Shipping Included! No matter what size! What a bargain! Take our Model NMO-1 Hole Mount for example. It's made from pure mil-spec hole non-material and the average gain of our NMO hole on 2 Meters is 4dB over a mag mount or 7dB over an on glass mount. As far as bang for the buck is concerned it’s impossible to beat this average of around a dollar a dB with any other mobile accessory, bar none! And! When you’re ready to remove the hole you just peel it off with our special hole removal tool (Only $6.95 and machined from the same mil-spec non-material as our holes.

We are able to offer these exceptional values because our material cost are virtually nothing since our proprietary hole design requires no material and minimal tooling to produce. Our warehousing and storage cost are also low because of the two dimensional nature of our hole design. We can stack a hundred in the same height we can stack one. Furthermore our shipping costs are also minimal because holes weigh virtually nothing and along with the 2 dimensional aspect this allows us to ship large quantities of holes in a regular # 10 envelope. You pay no extra shipping no matter how many holes you order. You the buyer are the one who benefits most from these aspects while we manage to turn a tidy profit and have the satisfaction of helping many hams to overcome the too little know affliction of MH (Mobilecom Holophobia).


To order any one of our high gain holes simply send $5.95 per hole to:

GHSS Ltd.
attn AE4FB
2711 Belaire Cr.
Doraville, Ga. 30340

Include your return address and the number and size of the holes you would like to order.

Note: Holes are so easily lost that we are unable to offer insurance, so be careful when you open your envelope not to spill any your holes since they are nearly impossible to find until installed in your vehicle. However we will replace any lost holes for only half price if you send a copy of your original receipt to the attn. of our customer service department. We do offer hole installation tools at additional cost if you don’t already have your own.

We are currently offering $0.95 discount per hole to all new slow and no code Extra Class Hams as our special welcome to the upper echelons of Hamdom. If you’re new and slow or just don’t know, don’t miss this opportunity.


Ever So Sincerely,]
Mike Adams
de AE4FB
CEO
GHSS Ltd.

GAIN HOLE SIGNAL SOLUTIONS Ltd.

“The Home of the High Gain Hole!”



Dealerships Available to Qualified Individuals*

*To qualify you must have more money than sense.
 
RE: Drilling Holes: A Commercial Solution  
by N6HPX on July 5, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I usually rent cars when I travel and don't believe they would like it much if I drill holes in there vehilces, but when I had mine it made it easier to just use the mag mounts so I could hide the antenna when going through parking garages and areas of crime.

Also the wife forbid drilling holes on the family car, installing radios and mag mounts is good enough to keep the peace in our home.
 
RE: Drilling Holes: A Commercial Solution  
by G6NJR on July 6, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
You Seem to completely ignore the issue that some people simply CAN NOT drill holes in there cars simple we can not afford the replacement panels and repaint jobs when the vehicles go back why is it so hard for some people to comprehend this simple FACT
 
Holes  
by KC2RSP on July 7, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Unfortunately most Lexus owners are not HAMs and do not appreciate holes in their expensive vehicles or antennas sticking out of it. The relm of ham cars seem to be more in the area of old junker Ford SUVs with some rust showing.

For possible future sale I prefer not to place holes in the roof.
If however, I keep this vehicle past its 15th year I may make extensive modifications to it. As of now it still has some of its original $80k value.

I am not worried about leaks, I am a bit afraid of picking up a date in a trailer trash/redneck like vehicle (picture the Dukes of Hazard). And considering most of my dates are not from the rural parts of America, surely this would work against me.

My current setup has the radio hidden and just a very small control panel and mic under the dash. The antenna looks like a mobile antenna and its mounted in the corner.

I had a Audi that I attached all sorts of things to, but unfortunately Audi's electrical system is dirty, meaning it creates hums, especially at high RPMs. The mechanics couldn't fix it, and filters didn't help. The engine gave out and I gave it away. Perhaps I'll pick up a old Jeep Wrangler some day and put a antenna farm on it. Those things go for soooo cheap used.
 
RE: Holes  
by KB7GJY on July 8, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I've drilled alot of holes, I have taken cars and made them patrol vehicles (Some in Very rough area ((Read low trees branches, etc.))).

I never had one problem with leaks, Not ever, and the fleet is more then 5 years old, some are from the 80's. I will also add that even in a heavy salt area, (Read state salt/plow trucks), once a year I go to each truck and check it out. Some, I admit, need a few scrapes to keep good contact, but these are few and far between.

To each thier own. I have done many mounts. Mag mounts, may be easy but I have seen the distruction they can cause.

I am not saying that the NMO mounts are the best thing, but they are alot better then most mounts.

On a multi antenna install, on trucks, I do use some hood/fender mounts, but they are not on a "Class 1" radio install.

If I owned a BMW, and I was gonna keep it, I would drill it. But, I don't see a BMW in my future, so no worries here.

KB7GJY
 
RE: Holes  
by KI4SDY on July 9, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KB7GJY said; "Mag mounts, may be easy but I have seen the destruction they can cause."

I am very interested in documenting actual incidents of injuries using magnetic antenna mounts. Can you give me any official report numbers for the failures that you observed?
 
RE: Drilling Holes: A Commercial Solution  
by KE5YLF on July 9, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks for breaking up the nonsenical diatribe by throwing humor in to the mix.

73
KE5YLF
 
RE: Holes  
by G6NJR on July 9, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>KB7GJY said; "Mag mounts, may be easy but I have seen the destruction they can cause."

I am very interested in documenting actual incidents of injuries using magnetic antenna mounts<


Yes one smashed rear window Citroen Xsara Picaso magmount came off the roof swung on the coax smashed the rear screen not impressed but when you cant drill holes you aint got no choice fortunatley the new car has roof rails so antennas are somewhat simpler
Pete G6NJR
 
RE: Holes  
by G3LBS on July 9, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The disgusting habit of drilling holes in cars is only paralleled by the equally disgusting habit of putting holes in donuts.
 
RE: Holes  
by KI4SDY on July 10, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
G6NJR, that is a very interesting story which almost seeems to defy physics and the invention of tempered auto safety glass. If the wind blew the antenna off the roof how did it fly backwards with enough force to smash out the rear safety glass of the car? Very strange! This is the first story I have ever heard like this and I investigated vehicle accidents for 25 years.

Did you make an accident report with the police of the incident and if so, what was the report number and agency involved?

Since I asked for incidents of injury or death, did you get the Citroen to the repair shop in time or did it expire? If the glass is that fragile, I don't think I will ever buy one. But then, I was smart enough not to buy a Yugo either!
 
RE: Drilling Holes: A Commercial Solution  
by N6HPX on July 10, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
probably not a bad thing if it was an older car and my wife won't object to it but the family car is exactly that a family one and I usually carry only the HT with me with a Magmount to keep the peace
 
Holes  
by WA9PIE on July 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I generally agree with everything Alan says. And his website will give any mobile enthusiast all the information they'll ever need to build a fantastic mobile station.

However...

Let's balance this a bit.

I have drilled to mount antennas using NMO mounts and it did not leak or depreciate the (new) vehicle. My wife didn't care one-way-or-another. But even this approach, or using a clip mount, won't get you on HF (though these are acceptable approaches, for VHF/UHF). And mag-mount antennas are going to do WAY more damage to your vehicle than drilling (talk about depreciating the value).

So yes - drill the hole!

But...

I decided to weld the darned mount to the frame of the truck, rather than drill a hole for an antenna that wasn't going to do a very good job on HF - or be sturdy anyway). So, if you don't want to drill - WELD IT! It's easy.

You can see it on my site at:

http://www.wa9pie.net/hamradio

Lastly, the gear that's mounted inside the vehicle needs to be firmly mounted. I don't like suction cups... velcro is bad... but there are a great number of custom made clips for most vehicles that make a rock solid mount for your radio. See them on my site or at http://www.proclipusa.com

Drill baby drill! On the other hand, just weld the antenna to the frame and be done with it.

Mike, WA9PIE
 
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