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[Articles Home]  [Add Article]  

The Eagle Has Landed

Steve Katz (WB2WIK) on September 2, 2009
View comments about this article!

The Eagle Has Landed

Steve Katz WB2WIK/6

Introduction.

Most hams who are active on HF are familiar with GAP Antennas, of Fellsmere, FL: http://www.gapantenna.com/

They have been selling HF vertical antennas for close to twenty years now and have four fairly popular models. I built and installed my first GAP antenna, a model Challenger DX-VI, in 1993 and it worked pretty well for a while, although it did deteriorate with age as I'll explain later. I've also installed a few of the other GAP models over the past decade or more, for other people.

In any case, the two popular “rooftop” GAP models are their Titan DX and Eagle DX. This story is specifically about the Eagle DX model installed at the home of Dr. Kate Hutton, KD6HTN. Kate's a new ham licensed this year, but a full-time scientist and has a scientist's attention to detail so it was fun to work with her and Allen Wolff, KC7O, who I've known for many years but hadn't seen in quite some time. The purpose of our get together was to try to de-bug and troubleshoot the Eagle DX antenna installation performed in early July. The antenna was assembled per the factory instructions and installed properly, but just didn't work, so I was called in to see if I could shed any new light on the problem.

First visit.

First thing we did is check the antenna both at the bottom of 50' of RG-213/U coax and also right at the bottom of the antenna - one more time - using an MFJ-259B antenna analyzer. And, as had previously been confirmed, the antenna didn't really resonate in any of the ham bands, and its “best case” VSWR was poor in most cases, even where “dips” were found.

We removed the antenna from its mounting over Kate's roof and laid it down. We measured every single piece of tubing (numerous) to assure ourselves we didn't have any rogue components in the mix, and all measurements confirmed the factory supplied tubing dimensions (received additional dimensions from Chris). We double-checked all connections both visually and using a portable Ohmmeter.

[I must say that the GAP assembly instructions are not very good, and weren't very good 16 years ago when I built my first Challenger DX (in fact, they likely haven't changed). The antenna is fairly simple but the instructions make it seem very complex, and include too many words and too few pictorials, and not a single actual photograph of any of subassembly - which would make checking the field assembly so much easier. As someone who has spent years in technical writing, I'm astonished the assembly instructions aren't much better than they are, as they could be drastically improved by any technical writer in a couple of hours. (I like the “IKEA” instructions: They use no words but many clear pictorials, making them universally useful anywhere in the world.)]

In any case, Kate, Allen and I all poured through the instructions once again to confirm the antenna had been assembled 100% correctly, and it was. I remembered the other GAP antennas I had assembled years ago all had a capacitor assembly installed at the top of the upper radiator tubing section, and quizzed Allen about that. “Yes, it's there, inside somewhere.” I figured we better fish it out and look at it, since it's the only variable we had not yet explored.

Once the antenna is assembled, the only way to access the capacitor is by taking the top sections of the antenna apart again, so we did that. The capacitor is actually in series with the uppermost antenna connection, so one wire from the capacitor, via an automotive-type “Fast-On” connector, attaches directly to the top of that element. The other connection to the capacitor comes from a length of embedded coaxial cable that feeds up through the tubing.

I removed the capacitor and inspected it visually. The cap is a potted assembly, but the potting is nearly clear so you can see the dipped mica capacitors inside quite clearly. They are a pair of 1200pF units in parallel, which obviously should yield 2400pF total capacitance. The caps looked okay, but we thought it would be a good idea to measure them.

Allen happened to have a handy portable battery-operated capacitance bridge at home, so he took a short ride home, potted GAP capacitor assembly in hand, to make the measurement. When he returned, I asked, “Did you find anything wrong?” and he answered, “I think so.” I was hoping he would, as there was really nothing else left to check.

He had brought the portable instrument back to Kate's house with him. We clipped it to the capacitor terminals protruding from the potting compound. Clipped “gently,” the unit measured 2200 pF, pretty close to what it seemed it should be. But if we pushed a little bit on one terminal, the reading dropped to 30pF. We repeated this test a dozen times, with the same results. There was an internal intermittent connection!

We inspected the wires in the “Fast On” terminals, and could see only one wire coming through each crimp connection (not two, as we figured we should see, since there are two capacitors in there, each having two leads). The leads are crimped and not soldered. There was an obvious air gap in the “intermittent” terminal, allowing that terminal to either make contact with the capacitor lead, or not, depending upon the pressure applied.

Eureka!

Here's a photo of the original GAP capacitor assembly, with terminals potted, crimped and unsoldered:

0x01 graphic

Information exchange.

This started a series of e-mail exchanges with “Chris” at GAP. Kate began that with a description of what we had found, and notifying the company she was Fed Ex'ing the faulty part back to them with expectation of a good replacement unit. She did receive a new replacement and 2 additional caps with the leads twisted together and 2 additional connectors only about five days later, which was reasonable service.

In the interim (during the five days) we had a number of e-mail exchanges with the company. Allen and I strongly recommended the capacitor leads be soldered, since that's the only way to assure a real connection when crimping a solid wire into a connector which is actually intended for use with stranded wire. The connectors used are also actually intended for minimum 16AWG wire, and the little capacitor lead is about 20AWG, so it's undersized for the terminal. Chris replied they only crimp the leads, and never solder them, and they never have any problems with this. I continued to recommend solder, and he replied they wouldn't solder these terminals as the soldering heat could melt the connector insulation.

I did some research on the terminals used to find they are absolutely rated for soldering heat, with a 15 second dwell at 250°C (such as using a solder pot). When Kate received the replacement unit, Allen did solder the terminals to the wire, using heat applied to the sides of the terminals and flowing solder down inside them to reflow. He did a great job, and the insulation still looks brand new, no signs of melting or scorching. So the company's refusal to solder based on that theory doesn't have much merit.

The second visit, and the fix.

Here's a photo looking “into” the new (replacement) potted capacitor assembly terminals, after Allen flow soldered them: Now, the leads are very well soldered to the terminals, with no damage to the terminal insulation.

0x01 graphic

We re-assembled the antenna with the new, soldered capacitor module and re-installed the Eagle DX the same way it was originally installed, and now found it “dipped” in each of the amateur bands, in some cases down to <1.5:1 VSWR, except for the 15m band, which experiences two distinct dips, one each above and below the ham band. Kate was primarily interested in 20m and 40m right now, since these are the “most open” bands at this point in the sunspot cycle, and the antenna loaded up well on both. (Note the best readings were achieved only after experimenting with the transmission line earthing point as discussed at the end of this article.)

During our e-mail conversations with Chris at GAP, he continued to claim this problem really doesn't happen so our experience was an anomaly. However, in reviewing the Eagle DX “product reviews” on the popular website eHam.net, I found this antenna has a user review rating of 3.7 (out of a possible 5.0) and 13 out of 51 reviews stated the antenna worked very poorly, didn't work at all, wouldn't load up or resonate, or some similar problem. That's 25.5% of the reviews, which can be found here: http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/452

I brought that to Chris's attention and he replied these are users who did not assemble the antennas correctly, or did not install them properly, or some similar problem. I agreed people sometimes make mistakes, but I doubted 25% did. In researching some of the reviewers who gave the antennas bad marks, I found half of them were very experienced amateurs, some had engineering degrees, and most reported they were perfectly satisfied with some other vertical antenna they had chosen to replace the GAP, installed at the same location.

As such, I speculated that these users, or at least some of them, very likely had exactly the same problem we experienced with Kate's antenna. Chris pushed back on this and didn't accept that hams do things properly, and I replied that in our case, we did: And while he was dealing with a neophyte ham in Kate, she's a Ph.D. scientist, and was assisted by two graduate engineers in Allen and myself, so I didn't think we were all idiots. I didn't receive any more correspondence after that, but Kate did get a new replacement part, and it did work.

Finally, it works!

Photo of the finished, installed Eagle DX atop Kate's roof (the guy lines are just lightweight ropes, recommended by GAP to prevent wind damage):

0x01 graphic

Hopefully this piece will help resolve some other hams' issues with GAP antennas, which are all of similar design. If the capacitor is open or intermittent, that does create many problems - and you can't really tell if the cap assembly is good or not just by looking at it: It must be measured.

A last bit to add: GAP's instructions call for making a coaxial RF choke current balun of the transmission line, and bonding the outer conductor of the transmission line where the choke attaches to the coax supplied with the antenna (short pigtail out the bottom of the lower tubing) by strapping that UHF “barrel” adapter directly to the very bottom of the antenna (prior to weatherproofing that assembly). We did that, then we “un-did” that, to see if it made any difference. It does, but not a lot. However, this isn't the end of the story…

Installing the antenna, Allen did a great job of using a high quality lightning arrestor bonded directly to an 8' ground rod at the base of the antenna support mast, before the coaxial feedline enters Kate's home. That, of course, introduces a second “shield” grounding point, directly to earth. When we first measured the “repaired” antenna, VSWR readings still weren't great, as measured “inside the shack,” at the rig end of the coax, which was 50' long from the lightning ground point to the radio.

Here's a photo of the lightning arrestor ground point outside the house:

0x01 graphic

We disconnected the lightning arrestor ground by bypassing the arrestor entirely and isolating the coax from earth where it had been previously tied. Bingo! Now, the match across the bands was greatly improved and we enjoyed the results discussed above. Re-grounding the outdoor splice point, with or without the arrestor, brought it back out of resonance again, with higher VSWR readings in most places.

Fun experimenting with the cable lightning ground attachment and lengths of coax:

0x01 graphic

This obviously indicates the transmission line is not well isolated, and still very much “part of the antenna.” Kate e-mailed this information to Chris at GAP, and he responded that, “Yes, we find it's best to use more than 50 feet of coax…” I don't doubt that, and he's probably correct - but this indicates a design deficiency. Any time your feedline is part of your radiation system, this becomes an uncontrolled element that cannot possibly be optimized across multiple bands. This, too, could explain some of the “bad results” by hams reporting low grades for the antenna on eHam.net: They just didn't use the right length of coax!

I mentioned earlier that my original GAP Challenger DX had “deteriorated” over time. This is anecdotal and may be of help to someone: My Challenger DX, installed in 1993, actually did work fine when first installed. Some time later (I think about two years), I was on 80m CW operating with a kilowatt during a contest and noted my output power had dropped significantly, and SWR rose from normal to very high. I stopped transmitting on that antenna and switched to something else.

Inspecting the antenna from the ground the next morning, I could see at least one, maybe two of the interconnection wires that come from the center “gap” feedpoint to the parallel elements that serve for the higher bands appeared to be broken. I had to take the antenna down and lay it on the ground for better inspection. The wires were not just broken, they were “burned” clean through. Hmm. I started disassembling the antenna and ultimately retrieved and removed the capacitor located at the top of the main upper radiating element. It also looked burned, and had failed.

I ordered a replacement and installed that a couple of weeks later, repaired the burned wires, and the antenna was up and running normally again. Over the ensuing years (I moved from that house in '99 and removed the antenna at that time), the antenna failed again, but this time it was evident that birds had been pecking away at those wires for some reason - maybe they tasted good? In any case, the external wiring used by the GAP antennas is a weak point and if I were to redesign for longer life, I'd replace them with solid aluminum straps that won't fall prey to local wildlife.

Finale.

Kate's antenna now works, but she's just getting started on HF and in ham radio, so it will take some time to tell how well it works. At least it resonates, and with time…and propagation…she should enjoy many contacts. To her benefit, although Kate's a new “no code” ham, she did take it upon herself to learn code and her very first contact with the new Eagle DX was on 40m CW!

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS FROM ALLEN WOLFF KC7O FOLLOW:

The original “bad” cap had two 1200 pf caps and measured 2200 pf when working. The new caps consisted of two 1100 pf caps and measured 2200 pf.

0x08 graphic
When I did the rework to the “new” cap, I Dremeled away the insulation, (see picture).

That exposed the crimp, which I tinned. With a thin piece of solder slid into the exposed crimp hole at the spade end, I heated the tinned crimp area and the solder flowed into the hole.

Once both lugs were soldered and cool, shrink sleeving was placed over the encapsulated cap, heated and formed a dam. Epoxy was then poured into the dam filling it and covering the solder on the lower end of the space lug.

Current configuration of the antenna coax, arrestor radio is:

Antenna

25 feet of coax (antenna to ungrounded splice to experiment with feedline lengths)

50 feet of coax (experimental addition spliced to first 25 feet from antenna)

Arrestor (grounded)

50 feet of coax (arrestor to shack)

Antenna switch

Radio/tuner

-30-

Member Comments:
This article has expired. No more comments may be added.
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by KC8VWM on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
A nice article Mr. Katz.

Seems to be a personal experience based solution to perhaps a common antenna problem.

Thanks for the insight and advice.

My Best,

Charles - KC8VWM
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by W3EMT on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I wonder if this company markets their products to other groups besides hams. They don't seem intent on keeping us as customers. I don't see how you can survive in this economy without exceptional customer service, especially if your customers are enthusiasts.
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by AB4D on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"During our e-mail conversations with Chris at GAP, he continued to claim this problem really doesn't happen so our experience was an anomaly. However, in reviewing the Eagle DX “product reviews” on the popular website eHam.net, I found this antenna has a user review rating of 3.7 (out of a possible 5.0) and 13 out of 51 reviews stated the antenna worked very poorly, didn't work at all, wouldn't load up or resonate, or some similar problem. That's 25.5% of the reviews, which can be found here: http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/452. I brought that to Chris's attention and he replied these are users who did not assemble the antennas correctly, or did not install them properly, or some similar problem."

Manufactures love to blame the end user when their products do not perform up to par. Whether Chris at Gap likes it or not, the reviews here on Eham do influence people's decisions when considering a purchase. IMO, implying that 25% of hams cannot assemble and install one of his antennas is not going to win him any awards in the customer relations department, and implies that there are some serious issues with the installation instructions.

Thank you for the article and insight into Gap antennas and their view of Amateurs. I now know of another line of products which I should avoid.

73
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by K1CJS on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks for a look at how these antennas measure up. I guess the end of the story is this: Don't buy a GAP product unless you're willing to rework it yourself to make it right before you even put it up.

I can see where GAP is going to lose customers over this report, and the only thing I can say is it serves them right. When a person buys something to use, they expect it to work properly WITHOUT having to be reworked to get rid of the bugs. Even though gremlins do sneak in occasionally, 1 in 4 is way too high a ratio.
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by N5TGL on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"This obviously indicates the transmission line is not well isolated, and still very much “part of the antenna.” Kate e-mailed this information to Chris at GAP, and he responded that, “Yes, we find it's best to use more than 50 feet of coax…” I don't doubt that, and he's probably correct - but this indicates a design deficiency."

Yep. The idea is to have the antenna radiate the RF, NOT the feedline. I have heard this about GAP antennas, and it's nice to have it confirmed. I did look at GAP at one time, but with more reading, they made their way to the bottom of the stack. Looks like I made the right choice.

I think I'll stick to either building my own, or a Butternut.
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by KG8JF on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I owned and used a Gap Eagle for 8 years in Cleveland, Ohio. It worked flawlessly. There was a problem that occured one time. One of the short standoffs developed a "creeper" (dirt and schmutz which takes a conductive path to ground). After removing the antenna, the problem areas were very apparent. I called Gap and had the necessary parts within a few days and was up and running again very quickly. I highly reccommend the antenna.......
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by W9PMZ on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
5BTV, no gaps here.

73,

Carl - W9PMZ
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by AA4PB on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
implying that 25% of hams cannot assemble and install one of his antennas
--------------------------------------------------------
Even if this were true, it's an indication that they have an issue with the assembly, the instructions, or both. Any time 1/4th of your customers can't make your product work then YOU have a major problem.
 
nothing has changed?  
by WV4I on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I purchased a Gap antenna in the late 90s. It was constructed per the manual, yet on certain bands was no more tunable than a simple vertical of random length. In talking to Gap, I quickly discovered that I apparently knew more about antenna theory than Gap, and I do this for a hobby, not a EE type, etc.. After a battle with the dealer and Gap, I finally got a refund.

This is an interesting, informative article on antennas, but if it's this much trouble to get a high dollar, store bought antenna to work, then you might as well just design and build one yourself, probably for far less money.

My experience with vertical antennas dictates Butternut if you have room for radials, Hygain AV-620/640 if you don't. Both handle legal limit with ease, and are VERY durable. And while somewhat fragile, the MFJ shortened multiband verts/horizs deserve a mention also, particularly the MFJ-1796W, once you decipher the instructions of the latter I must add.
 
RE: nothing has changed?  
by K0BG on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The sad part is, it isn't a "Gap only" problem! There are several other "wonder" antennas on the market, wherein the coax feed line does a fair amount of the radiating.

Sadder still, far too many fall for the hype commonly used for these products, and haven't the wherewithal to correct similar problems when they arise.

Caveat Emptor, indeed!

Alan, KŘBG
www.k0bg.com
 
RE: nothing has changed?  
by WY3X on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
With respect to Steve (and others), saying that 25% of the amateur population can't get it to work because 25% of the eHam reviews say so, doesn't make 25% the magic number. The number could be much lower, or much higher. All hams don't post reviews on eHam. However, the sheer number of posts indicating a problem SHOULD raise a red flag with the manufacturer.

I once bought a used GAP antenna, and the problems I had were caused by a previous owner over-tightening the screws into the aluminum tubing. This can be fixed by using through-bolts with an internal tooth washer on the front and nylock nuts and internal tooth washers on the back.

The exterior jumpers that came with my (used) GAP used crimped-on loops, and corrosion had already set into the crimps. In our salt-air environment, crimps are a BIG NO-NO unless sealed against the weather. The jumpers were factory-supplied by GAP and had to be thrown away. I replaced them all with soldered loop jumpers.

I do have to admit that once I had the GAP antenna in the air, it performed as expected, which was quite well.

In case you're not familiar with the damage that can be caused by salt air, our local club had a repeater antenna at 500 feet practically dissolve from salt air corrosion nearly 20 miles inland! It took only two years!

A tip: When you discover incorrect or missing hardware, don't be afraid to run down to your local hardware store for replacement instead of delaying your install waiting for the manufacturer to send you a missing 50 cent nut or bolt! Yes, it's their responsibility, but don't you feel foolish postponing your installation a week waiting on the post office??? Just make sure you buy only STAINLESS STEEL so it won't corrode when placed next to your aluminum tubing. No manufacturer in their right mind would fault you and void your warranty for doing this! (I live only three miles from two Lowe's and one Home Depot.)

Congrats on a great article, Steve!

73, -KR4WM
 
RE: nothing has changed?  
by K0PD on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I owned and used two different Gap antennas the Challenger which worked ok but nothing to write home about and a Titan that no matter how hard i tried could never get it to rersonate on all bands as advertised.I do know some who have a Titan and love it but not so in my case.I built a home made Vertical that has actually worked better than the Gaps and i agree as i recall there instructions it seemed took a mind reader to figure out what they were trying to say and pictures no doubt would have been a great aid.And i too have found E Hams real experience reports to have a strong decision on Equipment i may or might buy.
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by K7TCE on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Steve: Great article, I'm sure you've helped a lot of hams. Thanks for taking the time and effort to share your findings.

I've just added GAP to my list of 3-letter name vendors to never buy ham gear from.

Joe K7TCE
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by KC0W on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Fantastic looking install, Steve. Thanks for posting such detailed information as usual......Tom KCŘW
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by W4VR on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I'm sure many hams with gap verticals are appreciative of your pointing out the deficiencies and fixes. Some people swear by them and others curse them.
 
RE: nothing has changed?  
by KG6YV on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Sounds to me like it might be fruitful to get a ferrite line isolator and mount it at the antenna feedpoint. Several companies make them.

Greg
KG6YV
 
RE: nothing has changed?  
by KG6YV on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Sounds to me like it might be fruitful to get a ferrite line isolator and mount it at the antenna feedpoint. Several companies make them.


BTW, I second the comments that there are other antenna manufacturers with "problems". I bought a Hy Gain AV620 from Mississippi's Finest Junk" and half of the tuning stubs were threaded with the incorrect die.
Then, I had to wait 4 weeks to get replacements. Hy Gain "IS NO MORE">......

Greg
KG6YV
 
RE: nothing has changed?  
by AI4WC on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks, Steve, for the informative and professional article. The message is clear: as amateur radio people, we need to be able to assess and correct failures, poor workmanship and sometimes, poor design when we can. We see it all the time. I told the MFJ representative once that I sometimes considered their products as partially assembled "kits." He laughed, but I still buy MFJ stuff, remembering that some things are only readily available thru MFJ. Even the best manufacturers have failures in design and component failure. I'm sure it is not intentional, and some handle failures better than others. We can all probably relate such happenings.
 
RE: nothing has changed?  
by WB2WIK on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The article isn't intended as a slam (although I would slam GAP's lousy assembly instructions which could easily be improved), it's intended to help others who may have had problems with their antennas.

Without this experience, I would not have guessed the capacitor assembly could be such a problem. Hopefully GAP will see this and make a manufacturing change, which would cost about a dollar (maybe) and likely improve user satisfaction.
 
RE: nothing has changed?  
by WB2WIK on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: nothing has changed? Reply
by KG6YV on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Sounds to me like it might be fruitful to get a ferrite line isolator and mount it at the antenna feedpoint. Several companies make them.


BTW, I second the comments that there are other antenna manufacturers with "problems". I bought a Hy Gain AV620 from Mississippi's Finest Junk" and half of the tuning stubs were threaded with the incorrect die.
Then, I had to wait 4 weeks to get replacements. Hy Gain "IS NO MORE">......

Greg
KG6YV<

BTW, I agree almost every antenna manufacturer is guilty of some sort of problem like this. I had a brand new Hy-Gain DX88 vertical antenna (purchased in 1990, long before the MFJ acquisition) and it would not assemble per the instructions no matter what I did. I started measuring all the tubing lengths to find one piece was 18" shorter than it was supposed to be! Not having a "tubing stretcher" but wanting to complete the assembly and installation that day, I was lucky to find the right diameter tubing at Ace Hardware, bought an overlong piece and cut it to the right length.

My Tennadyne T-8, purchased new, was completely missing two through holes in one of the booms. I had a drill the right size and fixed the problem, but it was a point of frustration since I assembled the antenna on the roof (to make it closer for the lift up the tower once it was assembled).

Thankfully this is a hobby. :-P
 
RE: nothing has changed?  
by AH6RR on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Great Article Steve, I had a GAP Eagle I bought used and it was a pile of c*Q! at best even after I got it working. I replaced it with a Cushcraft R7 that made the Eagle look like a dummy load. I will never own a GAP product again even if it is given to me. I guess if it's free then I will sell it for scrap. I now have a SteppIR 3 ele 40-6 Meter beam and would die if I had to use a vertical again. If you want a Vertical than get a good one like the SteppIR, Cushcraft, Butternut ect. Stay away from GAP and MFJ (Made from junk).
73
Roland AH6RR
PS Stainless Steel and Corrosion Block are the only way to go around a Salty enviroment.
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by KC8ZEV on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Great article!!

Glad to see the antenna performs correctly now.

I am surprised that GAP sent you a part at all, sounds like they did a great job of pointing fingers at all the stupid customers who don't know anything about anything.

GAP needs to get their heads out of their _ _ _ and do some damage control. Perception is everything in marketing and supporting a product.

73
KC8ZEV
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by NY7Q on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I have never had a problem with GAP products, but if I do, I will look at the capacitor module first. My Challenger works absolutely flawless, and I work the world with it. I have it mounted on top of a building at the peak with the bottom 20 feet off the ground.
I must say, the directions for assembling it were no too desireable, but laid it all out and did the chore without the manual.
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WMCO on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
It will work better by isolating the coax cable by using ferrite beats at the outside of the coaxial cable as close as possible to the antenna feed point.

John
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by N6AJR on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Excellent article Steve. I have been using a Gap Voyager for several years. narrow banded on 160 but it does work. Now you need to write the definative article for the good old "fan dipole". hi hi. also check out K6MM's 160 home brew verticle. 73 tom
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by W0FM on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Hi Steve,

Another fine article,and accompanied by the first-rate photos we've come to appreciate from you.

Just curious as to how you and Allen came to be involved in the solution to Kate's antenna problem. Were you memebers of the same club, neighbors, friends? Did she seek you out in the community?

Regardless, she was fortunate to have two such dedicated "ghost busters" to call on for help. Yet another example of what this fine hobby is all about.

Nice going and thanks for sharing.

73,
Terry, WŘFM
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WB2WIK on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: The Eagle Has Landed Reply
by WMCO on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
It will work better by isolating the coax cable by using ferrite beats at the outside of the coaxial cable as close as possible to the antenna feed point.

John<

The antenna comes with those pre-installed over the pigtail coax emerging from the base of the antenna: Several long ferrite cores slipped up against each other, with a fairly snug fit over the cable jacket.

Doesn't seem to help -- much.

Maybe 100+ cores might, but the ones supplied by GAP still leave the transmission line as part of the antenna.

WB2WIK/6
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WB2WIK on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
RE: The Eagle Has Landed Reply
by W0FM on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>Hi Steve,



Just curious as to how you and Allen came to be involved in the solution to Kate's antenna problem. Were you memebers of the same club, neighbors, friends? Did she seek you out in the community?

Terry, WŘFM<

::Hi Terry,

Kate and Allen already knew each other and the antenna was already installed but not working when Kate contacted me a few weeks ago to ask for help. Kate and I had not met previously, but she heard about me being "the antenna guy" in the area, so she made a blind contact via e-mail. It worked out, and we each made a new friend.

73

Steve WB2WIK/6
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by K9FON on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Good article!!
I had a Titan and it worked ok. Indeed the coax lenth was a big issue with the antenna.
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by W8KQE on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Excellent and interesting article!

I had the exact same issue with the capacitor assembly for my 'Eagle DX' when I first installed it back in 1997 (was defective). GAP promptly sent me a new one, which rectified the main SWR problem. Adjusting the tuning stubs, and experimenting with # of turns and positioning of the RG-213 coax as it exits the bottom of the antenna resolved the rest of my SWR issues, and I was able to get the SWR below 1.5:1 on ALL bands, with it being completely flat on 40, 20, 17, and 12. It takes some time to properly tune the 'Eagle DX', and i've heard claims that it will either react favorably, or unfavorably with any surrounding metal or aluminum (fences, aluminum siding, etc.) in some cases. And yes, the manual/directions did have a lot to be desired.

Mine has never been guyed (it's mounted fairly low against the side of the house with a heavy duty eave bracket, on a long TV antenna mast cemented into the ground- the mast actually absorbs and transmits some of the force of the swaying antenna into the ground during storms, and it too visually bends a bit), and I often marvel at how it sways back and forth, sometimes significantly, during storms. Despite this, I have never had to make even one adjustment in the 12 years i've it up. It truly has been 'maintenance-free', and built like a BENZ in my opinion! I'm not a 'big gun' (I never run amps), but the antenna does get out well for the casual op. During Cycle 23, running 'barefoot', JA's, VK's, and ZL's were frequently worked on the higher bands, often with great reports. Europe was cake. 40m performance is not as good as the other bands, but this is a characteristic of GAP's in general (they don't work as well on the lowest band they were designed for). IMHO, this is one of the better, lower profile, multiband HF antennas on the marketplace and a great 'space saver'.
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WB2WIK on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>The Eagle Has Landed Reply
by W8KQE on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Excellent and interesting article!

I had the exact same issue with the capacitor assembly for my 'Eagle DX' when I first installed it back in 1997 (was defective).<

::Interesting to hear of at least one other case where the same thing happened!

I suspect this has happened "many" times, and users may not have even known it: It's possible they just gave up and said, "This thing doesn't work."
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by W5HTW on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
About 13-14 years ago I put up a Titan V. It went up easily, mounted on a five foot pole in concrete, which left the counterpoise within easy reach of me.

It worked very well, the only "high" SWR on 30 meters, and that was about 1.8:1.

However, I flipped on the amplifier one night (I rarely used it) and at about 500 watts, there was a sudden breakdown. After that, the antenna would accept 100 watts, but nothing more. Anything over about 150 watts would cause what appeared to be an arc.

I contacted GAP about the problem. I received very good support, contrary to other stories here. The concensus at GAP was that the middle section, where the folded dipole is, had a 'pin hole in the coax." They required me to send that section back to them, but in the meantime they send me, prepaid, a NEW center section, plus two of the top capactors. In fact, I still have the capacitors, which are molded. One was for 3850-3900, the other 3950-4000. They are only used on 75/80 meters. But the one in the antenna, for 3900-3950, was still good, so I never changed them.

I put the antenna back up and it worked fine -- on 100 watts. But when I applied about 400 watts to it, it broke down again.

GAP suggested I had a parasitic. So I investigated that with a borrowed spectrum analyser. Couldn't find one.

I chose to use the antenna on 100 watts or less rather than go through this again, and I did.

However, I began wondering about why the extremely high SWR on 80 meters, but it was OK on other bands. I had an Icom 706 that I had modified to use on 60 meters. I began trying to find a resonant frequency, but running the 706 outside the ham bands (Yeah I know.) The 75 meter resonant frequency was not about 5.2 mhz. And by this time, I could not even use it with low power on 75/80.

Eventually I took it down and sold it.

The 6061 aluminum is light and soft. But that is the standard for vertical. However, if you over tighten the screws, they strip easily.

I chose to mount stainless steel hose clamps at each joint, for physical reinforcement. I could also use them for termination of guy rope (and if the wind ever gets over 20 mph, this antenna DOES need guying.) That fixed some of the non-resonant problems, but not on 75/80. Nothing changed that.

The GAP Titan is a good antenna if you reinforce it, if you guy it, if you put it together properly, and if you can't lay down radials. Because of its design (a vertical dipole) radios will do nothing at all for it.

I would buy another one if I was looking for a vertical, which I am not. Mine stayed up ten years, with only minor problems, including the soft aluminum and stripping of screws. And that darned 5.2 mhz resonance for 75 meters!

At that frequency, by the way, the SWR was about 1.2:1! Neat, huh?

Ed
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WB2WIK on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Ed, it sounds like you never actually found out what the problem was.

Possibly a bad capacitor in the top of the antenna?

If the cap was "open" or much lower than normal capacitance, that would explain the higher resonant frequency.
 
RE: nothing has changed?  
by WB2WIK on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>nothing has changed? Reply
by WV4I on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
And while somewhat fragile, the MFJ shortened multiband verts/horizs deserve a mention also, particularly the MFJ-1796W, once you decipher the instructions of the latter I must add.<

I agree with you on that. I have no clue who writes those instructions but they are not well done at all.

My offer to all of them stands: For $300 an hour I'll re-write all of your assembly instructions to make them far better than they ever were, and none of them would take me an hour. :-P

I like "IKEA" instructions, because they use no words at all...just excellent pictorials, which are a universal language.

I put together an "IKEA" bedroom set for one of my daughters, for her dorm at college. It took no time at all, following their simple pictorial instructions, even though in one case there was almost 300 parts to assemble.

Brilliantly done!
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by K7LA on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Great piece of work guys. And thanks for helping out Dr. Hutton on her installation. She and her staff do some great work professionally.
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by VA3SAX on September 2, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Thank you for your article detailing your experiences and sharing your wisdom. I think due to your experiences with this antenna and with its manufacturer that I will be sure to steer clear of these antennas unless the price is right.
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by N0CU on September 3, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I never did get my Challenger to work as advertised. Changing the lengths of the 3 wires used for the counterpoise (the only variable available) changed which bands worked, but no combination was found that would result in all bands working. I finally had to redesign the stud used for 20 M to get all bands usable. I believe that the RF characteristics of the ground under the antenna have a significant effect on how these antennas tune up. The series capacitor is another problem area for these antennas. Mine burned up after being exposed to 1.5 Kw. When asked, Chris at the factory said that their antennas, although rated for “full legal limit”, should not be driven with more than 500 watts for any length of time. Internal heating inside the cap (these caps must handle 5+ amps RMS at 1.5 Kw) melts the solder, so even though the idea of soldering the crimp-on connectors is a good one, it may not prevent these caps from failing. The caps used are silver micas rated at only 500 volts. This may be adequate for some operating conditions, but it does seem marginal. The load capacitors used in Kw amplifiers are usually rated at 1.5 Kv or higher.
 
RE: nothing has changed?  
by W5WSS on September 3, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Hello Steve, Thanks for sharing your findings. Let us all hope that GAP will value the credence of your revelation. Wisdom on their part would be to make the provisions needed for a more reliable product in the very near future. Advice... Gap require your assemblers to solder the caps to the wire.:)73
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by K4JRB on September 3, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
GAP has aways had a mixed bag reputation. WA4CBF in Nashville had the 160 to 40 GAP in his back yard and aways seemed to do very well. W8BLA had the exact antenna up in 1994 and ran multi Op in the CQ 160 SSB.
They did make over 300 qsoS. I ran Single Op and ran off 921 QSOs with my big elevated L. Both of us ran about 1200 watts during the contest but in direct comparison they often did not show up. I worked ON4UN on the first call and also HB9CXZ. W8BLA never made it to the HB. Our best direct comparison was Leo, W7LR in Montana. Leo said I was S9+ a few DB and W8BLA was 4/7 at best.

Dick, K2UFT, one of the operators at W8BLA said the SWR was OK but it reminded him of his use of an old Hy-Gain vertical he had years ago (14AVQ maybe). The GAP was mostly a big dummy load. I think they used some additional radials to improve results. GAP customer support said this was the problem. I checked with WA4CBF and he had several additional radials in addition to the 2 or 3 short counterpoise wires supplied by GAP.

I tested the Uni-Hat CTSVR vertical designed by N5NUG and K5YNR. The GAP should equal or exceed the performance of the Uni-Hat as it was 14 feet taller (45 vs 31) and had an adequate top hat(the Uni-Hat was 8 feet in diameter). The Uni-Hat was a folded short unipole per Ron Nott, K5YNR. Ron told me the 31 foot tall Uni-Hat with the nig top hat resonated at 1.8Mhz but at about 7 or 8 ohms. The LC network just matched the antenna to 50 ohms.

Too bad that GAP is so adverse to problem resoulution as offered by experienced hams such as WB2WIK.

73 Dave K4JRB
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by N0CU on September 3, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I also have been disappointed with the on-the-air performance of the Challenger. Over a period of one year, I found that less than 1% of the time did the Challenger equal or exceed the signal received by my HB multi-band trap dipole at 40 ft. This esitmate is based upon comparisons on 80, 40 & 20 meters at all hours of the day.
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by AK2B on September 3, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I've seen a lot of criticism of eHam reviews being useless but I also know of a few reputable companies that look at them religiously for feedback. If most companies saw that their customers were having problems assembling their product - they would correct the problem. Why wouldn't they? I remember someone I met, who was an efficiency expert, proclaiming that some of the companies that hired him appeared to be TRYING to go out of business. Maybe GAP will eventually figure it out before it’s too late.
Thanks, for the excellent article, Steve.

Tom, ak2b
 
RE: nothing has changed?  
by KI9A on September 3, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
First off, GREAT article. This is why I visit Eham alot. Thanks!

Second, W3EMT says "I wonder if this company markets their products to other groups besides hams. They don't seem intent on keeping us as customers. I don't see how you can survive in this economy without exceptional customer service, especially if your customers are enthusiasts."

Funny. I had an issue with my Voyager last year, a coupling broke while raising the antenna ( it's been used 10 years), I called them, and they had a spare in the mail for me in a couple days. No charge. I asked for a copy of the manual prior to that, one arrived in 2 days.

If they were anymore customer oriented, they would have to come and install the dang thing!! They are WONDERFUL group to deal with. I just wish all a ham suppliers were this decent.

Just my 2 cents.

73- Chuck KI9A
 
RE: nothing has changed?  
by NB3O on September 3, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks for the article.

Many store-bought antennas, including some moderately priced ones, appear to have various small manufacturing "oversights", rendering them frustrating to simply dangerous.

I purchased a 40 meter linear loaded 4 element yagi (dual driven elements), and had the shorting bars cut through the philystrand tension lines after six months and some brisk wind. I originally noticed the sharp edges, but conceded the antenna manufacturer must have known more about structural design than I.
Bad mistake. Easy fix with a round file, and some Delrin dowels to support the rope loops, but a major job to disassemble it piece-wise on the 140 foot tower in the middle of February.

Same antenna, two years later, the aluminum boom-to-mast plate failed during a strong early March wind (the Orion rotor is set as slow as it goes to minimize rotational torque). Fortunately, the main truss rope held the antenna in the air, like a sail.
The boom-to-mast plate is now a piece of quarter inch steel with cold galvanizing.

Either of these issues would have been simple fixes under a saw-buck.

"Thankfully this is a hobby."
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by K1TM on September 3, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The Titan DX has similar issues with the feed line interacting with the antenna, though I did not discover this until I replaced my feedline and changed the length.

The original feed line/antenna combination provided a great match across all bands. Performance was similar to my dipole though somewhat lower. It was good enough for occasional use, but did not produce reliable results over a path to the NE that I liked to work. I wrote it off to topography and propagation issues. The antenna has basically been in place since 1995 to provide on air continuity between my various wire antenna experiments, that come and go.

After 4 years of use, the antenna got a rebuild because the tuning was changing as the wind blew. The element connecting wires had disintegrated at the crimped on ends. The 40m counterpoise wire was in terrible shape. Also, the encapsulating material for the 80m/75m tuning capacitor had disintegrated in the Texas heat. The internal coax assembly had cracked from heat and chafed against the internally protruding sheet metal screws used to assemble the antenna. So, along with rebuilding the components, chafing gear was added in the form of slip on plastic tubing.

After 10 more years of use the tuning was again varying with the wind and just by chance I decided to change the feed line coincident with repairs. I chose a single very low loss feedline to the shack and a remote switch in the backyard feeding the other antennas and their matching systems. I noticed that most bands on the Titan shifted resonance with the switch install and the 40m/30m resonance was way off. Changing the coax length by inserting additional sections changed the apparent resonance on the lower bands.

The light bulb went off at this point as this is an asymmetric dipole and therefore without a feed line choke I was radiating from the coax. Since I use direct burial coax, my power was radiating into the ground. I added an 8 turn/12 inch diameter choke made from the coax at the antenna. This provided enough isolation to fix the issue. Performance became comparable to my OCF dipole and some DX paths were actually better with the Titan. That old path to the NE now worked fine. While at it, I experimented with several ferrite based line isolators, both at the feedpoint and down stream at the lightning arrestor, and saw only small changes in performance.

I pulled out the original documentation and hunted through it, believing that I must have missed the instruction to build a choke all those years ago. However, I could not find one. Clearly, this is a significant omission from the instructions for this antenna.
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by KG4WLA on September 3, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I had the same problem only with a GAP Voyager I had purchased used at a hamfest. I was the third owner of the antenna and the other two owners never got it on the air because the connectors for the capacitor were not attached to the internal wire. It worked as well as any vertical after repair until a tree fell on it this summer.
 
The Gap is, too often, Crap  
by KK8ZZ on September 3, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I also had a Challenger several years ago and despite very careful assembly and several hours spend over several months with their tech support guy, the thing never worked. I was amazed at the lack of any diagrams and VERY POORLY WRITTEN instructions for assembly.

It amazes me that after more than a decade, nothing has changed. I had to redrill several holes, had a couple of missing screws, and found that some of the tubing cuts weren't deburred, resulting in sharp edges that cut hands as well as nicked cable when it was being pulled through. I spent a LOT of time tweaking radials to no avail. This antenna was a poorly designed piece of scrap aluminum (which was eventually what happened to it) and never worked correctly. I wonder now if the capacitor problem happened on mine as well.

I am distressed every year to see this junk peddled at a prominent display at Dayton, and wonder how many NEW HAMS drop out of the hobby because they spent a wad of cash on one of these things, and could never get it to work right. The good doctor was fortunate to have two really great, knowledgeable "Elmers" with some good test gear to help her out. The vast majority of the rest of the "new ham" world has neither.

Vendors who make a marginal product with poor instructions then blame buyers for the product's faults deserve to fail. It is unfortunate that many - or most - new hams never find these reviews and comments until later in their ham careers, if at all.


NEW HAMS NEED IMMEDIATE SUCCESS, not failure, and vendors who show indifference to customers and produce accessories that work poorly if at all deserve to fail themselves.
 
RE: The Gap is, too often, Crap  
by WB2WIK on September 3, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I agree with these comments.

In engineering school, one of our profs always proclaimed, "You never know how anything works until you can break it!" and that was actually pretty sage advice. The moral is, make stuff completely idiot-proof, because until you do, it absolutely will fail and no one will be able to explain why.

Now that I'm older and in business myself, we "Beta test" products by giving them to people who really don't know much, to see how they do. If they can break it, we go back to the drawing board.
 
RE: The Gap is, too often, Crap  
by AC7CW on September 4, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I hate low quality pos stuff... thank you eham for the reviews section...
 
RE: The Gap is, too often, Crap  
by WB9NJB on September 4, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Under the "for what its worth" category, I have had a GAP Challenger up for about 12 years now and it has always been a very good performer. It hears well, and performs well on transmit. I get good reports on all bands that it is rated for. The winters and summers here in Colorado are relatively unrelenting, and antennas go through a lot. My experience with the GAP antenna has been nothing but favorable. Incidentally, I bought it used.
 
RE: The Gap is, too often, Crap  
by WB2WIK on September 4, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: The Gap is, too often, Crap Reply
by WB9NJB on September 4, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Under the "for what its worth" category, I have had a GAP Challenger up for about 12 years now and it has always been a very good performer. It hears well, and performs well on transmit. I get good reports on all bands that it is rated for. The winters and summers here in Colorado are relatively unrelenting, and antennas go through a lot. My experience with the GAP antenna has been nothing but favorable. Incidentally, I bought it used.<

That's very cool! And its performance is compared to_______________________________________??? What are the other antennas you have that you switch back and forth to, to make the performance comparison? That's important to know.

Thanks

WB2WIK/6
 
RE: The Gap is, too often, Crap  
by WB2WIK on September 4, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: The Gap is, too often, Crap Reply
by WB9NJB on September 4, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Under the "for what its worth" category, I have had a GAP Challenger up for about 12 years now and it has always been a very good performer. It hears well, and performs well on transmit. I get good reports on all bands that it is rated for. The winters and summers here in Colorado are relatively unrelenting, and antennas go through a lot. My experience with the GAP antenna has been nothing but favorable. Incidentally, I bought it used.<

That's very cool! And its performance is compared to_______________________________________??? What are the other antennas you have that you switch back and forth to, to make the performance comparison? That's important to know.

Thanks

WB2WIK/6
 
RE: The Gap is, too often, Crap  
by WB2WIK on September 4, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: The Gap is, too often, Crap Reply
by WB9NJB on September 4, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Under the "for what its worth" category, I have had a GAP Challenger up for about 12 years now and it has always been a very good performer. It hears well, and performs well on transmit. I get good reports on all bands that it is rated for. The winters and summers here in Colorado are relatively unrelenting, and antennas go through a lot. My experience with the GAP antenna has been nothing but favorable. Incidentally, I bought it used.<

That's very cool! And its performance is compared to_______________________________________??? What are the other antennas you have that you switch back and forth to, to make the performance comparison? That's important to know.

Thanks

WB2WIK/6
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by W3LZK on September 4, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
First off, this was a great article, well thought out,well written, a very informative piece overall. I have known both Rich the owner and his assistant Chris for about 6 years now. I am currently on my 3rd. GAP vertical,a Challenger,having started out with a Challenger wanted something that would cover 17 meters, yea there is a mod you can do to get 17, but the SWR on 12 goes south. Well then, sold the Challenger, which by the way is still going strong a little further south of me here in Vero Beach, Fl. I went with a GAP Titan which I had up for about 4 years and let me just add that I have worked the world with both the Challenger and the Titan.

However, when my tower went up a year ago July, the Titan on a 10' pole on a tilt over mount was in the way and would have interfered with the tower and had to go. If there had been some way I could have mounted the Titan some where else on my property I would've kept it. But, I still had the itch to have a vertical to use when the mood strikes. So I went back to GAP, which is only 20 miles from my QTH and picked up another Challenger. In all instances, I have had no problems other than operator error,ie; not reading the instructions thoroghly, skipping steps, thinking I knew better,etc. Once I had crrected my errors, these antennas work extremely well for the bands they are designed for. Now then on either of my 2 radios I can switch between my Mosley TA-33 classic and my GAP Challenger DX VII. Yes the Challenger is noisier than the beam, but I have worked quite a bit of DX with the Challenger even in these trying times with lousy band conditions.

I can do an A/B comparison with the press of a button as I am trying out a new (to me) rig. On 40 and 20 which are about the only bands that are viable around here lately, the only difference between the vertical and the beam is the noise level. No I v=cannot work 40 with the beam but I have done very well with the vertical when the beam just didn't cut. and vice versa. My GAP verticl on 40 works as well if not a tad bit better than my tuned half wave dipole I made for 40 and is up around 38'.

I'm not saying these things just to make GAP look good. These are just my own personal observations after using their product for a couple of years. Tis true that their assembly instructions could use a major overhaul, as some have stated the instructions aren't the best. However, at least with my Titan and my latest purchase the Challenger there was a full page showing how the antenna is to be assembled. I did find that on my Challenger that the length of coax is definitely a factor. After I first had assembled and erected the antenna and put a short length of coax on it (approximately 40'total) I found that the SWRs on all bands was WAY off, after rereading the instructions again, saw written there plain as day that a length over 50' was required, after attaching a longer length of coax now somewhere around 75' I find that the SWRs on all bands are well below the advertised 2:1.

I do think GAP could use a few improvements especially with the assembly manual, I don't think you would see the complaints that you do about their antennas. As far as customer service goes, maybe I'm a bit biased, but if ever I need help or have a question about their antennas,ie, why is it doing A, when it should be doing B, well I have talked with Chris and or Rich for over an hour sometimes, and they always have time to help their customers.



73 de Mark
W3LZK

Vero Beach, Fl.
Former home of GAP Antennas.
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by WA7VTD on September 5, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Interesting to see the "white knights" come riding out of the shadows to defend Gap and its product(s).

A primary point here is that if the length of the coax is making a difference as to the perceived/measured 'match,' there is a problem! Gap should not pass off as "purchaser incompetence" the deficiencies and defects in its design and/or manufacture of its products, when Gap doesn't bother to note that the vertical in question requires a means of isolating the feedline from the antenna. While many amateurs (yours truly included) almost always put several turns of coax near the feedpoint of just about any antenna, it is usually not motivated by an expectation that otherwise, the antenna will not perform properly (and there are some cases in which that form of feedline choke is contraindicated for a particular antenna).

That Gap will not make some very obvious and simple changes to its instructions (in this and other regards) is very telling.

One thing I'v clearly decided after reading this piece, Steve, is that I won't purchase anything new directly from Gap. Anything by Gap (if anything, ever)that I acquire will be good condition/used, from a user.

Even the worst companies occasionally please the heck out of a few customers, so the other anecdotal accounts of quick service don't impress me much.

Thanks much for the informative and very thorough article, that came a across as an evidence-based subjective experience. Both Gap's designers and those purchasing Gap products would likely benefit from reading one of the popular books on antennas published by the RSGB or ARRL. Vertical dipoles, while often a very convenient alternative, have a few simple rules for their proper care and feeding. Isolation of the feedline when it not brought away from the feedpoint at a 90 degree angle, is among them.

7e de Kevin WA7VTD
Oregon City, OR
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by KA6SGT on September 6, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks for a great article, Steve!

For the past 2 years, I've had a GAP Titan on the roof that's displayed inconsistent SWR across its advertised bands of operation. I've taken the antenna apart and re-reviewed the instructions several times. The assembly steps have not changed and I DID assemble the antenna correctly. Company response to the problem placed the blame squarely on the customer: a reaction I take great offence to. The instructions are poorly written and lack the necessary (clear) illustrations and photographes needed for most people to easily and successfully assemble this, otherwise, great antenna.

This fix represents the final frontier of problem resolution and "self-help" so characteristic of the amateur community.

Thanks again!

Peter, W9IP (ex KA6SGT)
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by KI9A on September 6, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
This is for WB2WIk, and others wanting a comparison.
Voyager: I've had this beast up for 18 months now, and have made many, many contest QSO's, and ragchew QSO's on it. I have installed a 80 meter, open wire fed dipole @ 50' as an alternative antenna. Here is what I have found:

- The manual suggests you guy it at 2 points. I have it guyed at those 2 points, PLUS a set at about 8' up. This does wonders to stabilze this antenna.

-Performance.

20- Not used much, the tribander smokes it always. Toss up between the dipole & GAP, dipole has edge on RX.

40- Anything within 800-1000 miles, the dipole is even, or better. DX, the GAP wins out. I don't sit in pileups too long with this antenna. Yes, I understand it isn't a yagi @ 140', but, it has provided me with 141 DX countries in 18 months on 40.

80- Big difference between the dipole & GAP here. Stations inside of 1000 miles, the dipole is at times 20 DB better. West coast ( I'm in IL ), the GAP beats the dipole by an S unit or so. DX, well, I work EVERYTHING I hear. It has provided me with small pileups of Europeans calling me during a couple of DX contests. 96 DXCC in 18 months so far. Perfect balance of antennas on this band, with the dipole & GAP.

160- Well, it works, and will get you on the air here. I made over 400 QSO's in 5 hours during the ARRL 160 contest in December. I have worked 2 JA's from the midwest with it, and several Europeans. Is it close to a 125' vertical? Nope. But, it works almost as well as my inverted L @ 45', with 36 radials under it. What more can you ask for a 45' tall antenna on 160??

Guys, it has faults. It's tough to assemble, but, anyone with mechanical abilities can do it. It is wierd to raise. But, I fabricated a 6' tall support, that once it was verticle, I secured it there, while getting the guys in place at my leisure. Not rushing around while one poor guy is trying to hold it straight. Use 4 guys on it, at 3 levels. It will survive almost anything. We had storms last summer, that produced winds in the 70 mph range, and storms that produced sustained winds of 40-50 mph ( remainders one of the hurricanes that came up from the gulf), and it came out perfect. Can't say the same about the trees in my yard.

The problem I see is this. If it isn't EASY to install, guys will whine about it. Most anything that is EASY, isn't worth having. So, they then give reviews based on their whining of assembly, or tuning. 90% of the time, it is their own fault, not the antennas. Then, you have the guys who seem to think this will take the place of a 2 ele 40 meter yagi @ 140'.

Yeah..this thing works just fine. s is my review of the Voyager.
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by WA2JJH on September 6, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
TNX AGN STEVE FER being one of E-Hams best contributors. This artical is more proof, that your are always looking out for Ham radio.

I considered the Gap Vertical. I did not purchase it because of it's many tuning and mechanical quirks.
Toon bad for me. The Gap would have given me much bang for the buck. Just small enough foot print for my Greenwich Village 5 story walk up roof.

I think GAP owes you a "freebie" for re-engineering an antenna that has had the same problems for years.

If you start your own antenna company, I want in on the IPO!!

Seems their is not a performance vertical made with a small foot print. GAP sure seemed to be close. All the reviews indicated the Gap is crap. Takes days to install. However after much work, it does perform as advertised.....well almost.

Perhaps the a "Katz Corp" 10-160M city slicker" vertical will be a future product.
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by WA2JJH on September 6, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
TNX AGN STEVE FER being one of E-Hams best contributors. This artical is more proof, that your are always looking out for Ham radio.

I considered the Gap Vertical. I did not purchase it because of it's many tuning and mechanical quirks.
Toon bad for me. The Gap would have given me much bang for the buck. Just small enough foot print for my Greenwich Village 5 story walk up roof.

I think GAP owes you a "freebie" for re-engineering an antenna that has had the same problems for years.

If you start your own antenna company, I want in on the IPO!!

Seems their is not a performance vertical made with a small foot print. GAP sure seemed to be close. All the reviews indicated the Gap is crap. Takes days to install. However after much work, it does perform as advertised.....well almost.

Perhaps the a "Katz Corp" 10-160M city slicker" vertical will be a future product.
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by N0CU on September 6, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KI9A: You might want to read all of the posts. Or if you did read them, you still don't get it. These antennas have have some serious design deficiencies AND their performance is very dependent on the ground conditions under them. The fact that your antenna worked doesn't make me feel any better about my antenna.
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by K3NOQ on September 6, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I was considering a verticle for my property in Colorado. I was interested in the Gap product until I read the reviews and headaches others had encountered. I kept looking and bought the Hustler 6BTV. Who wants to spend their good money and end up with a headache or three?
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WA2JJH on September 7, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Seems like the Hustler verticals with DX Engineering performance kits for GND or roof mounting may be s decent solution.
 
YOU ARE THE "GAP" STEVE  
by PLANKEYE on September 7, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: The Gap is, too often, Crap Reply
by WB9NJB on September 4, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Under the "for what its worth" category, I have had a

GAP Challenger up for about 12 years now and it has always been a very good performer. It hears well, and performs well on transmit. I get good reports on all bands that it is rated for. The winters and summers here in Colorado are relatively unrelenting, and antennas go through a lot. My experience with the GAP antenna has been nothing but favorable. Incidentally, I bought it used.<
________________

WB2WIK:



That's very cool! And its performance is compared to_______________________________________??? What are the other antennas you have that you switch back and forth to, to make the performance comparison? That's important to know.

Thanks

WB2WIK/6

_________________________



PLANKEYE:

Ya know, I had a Titan DX up at one time and had a ball with it! Great antenna and Great folks from GAP to work with. NICE FOLKS!

Ya know, I had a G5RV draped on my patio fence awhile back, 2 FOOT of the DECK, and had a ball with it.

When I read things like _______________________________

FILL IN THE BLANKS!

It sickens me.


I have more QSL cards on my wall from Antennas that all of you here say don't work than I can count.


Sometimes, Steve can learn too!

Even from simple Folks like Me!!

I hope anyone reading this can benefit from my post.

This is just how I ROLL, I hope you all understand!




PLANKEYE
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by KI9A on September 7, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
N0CU:

"The fact that your antenna worked doesn't make me feel any better about my antenna."

I really don't care about your feelings. I'd be willing to bet you are the type that would bitch about being hung from a new rope.
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WA2JJH on September 7, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I would complain about being hung with a rope.....Factory fresh or a Sergio Leonie spagetti western movie :)

Some people should complian about all you can eat free lobster and beer. If your an alcoholic allegic to shellfish are legimate reasons.

Hey c,mon all.....lighten up with the nasty talk.
Any Antenna jokes?
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by KI9A on September 8, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Any Antenna jokes? "

SURE! Didya hear the one about the windom who thought it was a yagi?!
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WB2WIK on September 8, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
>RE: The Eagle Has Landed Reply
by WA2JJH on September 7, 2009 Mail this to a friend!

Any Antenna jokes? <

This circular antenna was trying out his new microphone on the air, but all he kept saying was "Ha-lo, ha-lo." It was annoying.

A new ham used a flyswatter to try building a bug catcher antenna. It didn't work.

Drunk ham on 75m phone kept talking about his new Jim Beam antenna.

You don't want me to keep going...
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by KG6WLS on September 8, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
"Any Antenna jokes? "

I was told that a fan dipole was supposed to make you cool.

I thought a ham stick was some kind of jerky you'd find at hamfests.

:)
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WA2JJH on September 8, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Eemember Gotham Vertical. Their ads euded to an all band vertical. Price...about 50 bux.

The joke was what arrived. Few sections of cheap aluminum pipes, a loadind coil, an aligator clip and some cheap hardware.(hose clamps and a few nuts and bolts.

you had to make a vertical out of that. The joke was,, for the 1/2 money you could have purchashed a
5/8th wave complete CB base antenna. 18 foot radiator with 9 foot radails.

If you removed the gamma match/lightening arrester.....You had an excellent antenna that would present well under 2:1 SWR 10-20M. With a tuner 40M was not bad,

Lafayette sold them
for $29! The 9 foot CB ground plane sold for even less.

The Joke was how such antennas sell for almost $100 today!
Another Joke is how these $400 Ham verticals promise you a world of DX. Some even claim great performance without radials or counterpoise.

I guess if you could get any antenna hundreds of feet above sea level and had no objects a few hundred metera proximal to you......A 10m whip would get dx on 80M......:) Why not simply build a salt water ocean for a great RF ground plane.

I remember how our back up TX location(Empire state building) would work with an so-239 receptical with paper clip radiator and radials would be a kick ass 2M antenna!
I can go on......I am sure there are better things to do. I could always throw rocks at commuter trains with the gang kids.
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WA2JJH on September 8, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
A RINGO RANGER is writting me a ticket. I told him he should be a lone ranger and leave me alone....:)
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by N9UY on September 8, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Since this forum has turned into a discussion on GAP antennas, let me share my experiences.

I bought a Titan DX antenna used. It was in poor shape. I spent a month sanding and cleaning the antenna and all the connections and replaced a lot of the hardware, putting it all together with dielectric grease. I was doing this mostly so the antenna looked good but perhaps I got lucky and sidestepped some of the connector problems reported by other users. I took special care to seal the top of the antenna (where the capacitor is) against moisture entry. I had to call Chris at GAP a couple of times for technical advice (thank the terrible instruction sheet mentioned by others)and found him helpful and knowledgeable.

The antenna is ground mounted and has about 80 feet of coax, no RF choke (again, maybe I just got lucky with the length). It is just beyond its falling radius from power lines and near an industrial park. I have 3 other HF antennas up with instant switching and find the following:

1. After spending a day tuning it, I achieved the advertised low SWR on all bands.
2. I worked a lot of DX with this antenna from 2006 on, even before I got an amplifier. It takes the 500-600 watts I run through it OK on all bands. With the amplifier, I get people's attention.
3. I just put up a 5-band hexagonal beam for 20-10, and find that the Titan "hears" almost everything the beam hears, albeit not as loud. I use it for a receive antenna since it is omnidirectional.
4. I never use the Titan on 75 meters, as even their literature does not claim that this antenna is that great on that band and the resonance is not where I want it to be anyway.
5. Compared to my other antennas (the hex beam, a terminated inverted-V, and an inverted-L) the Titan is the noisiest. The inverted-L is the quietest.

The bottom line for me is that, if I could keep only one antenna, it would be the Titan for its versatility, even though each of my antennas is better in some way.

Tom in Wisconsin
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WA2JJH on September 8, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I think many hams wish there could a onne single antenna that gives them strong desired signal, did not
pick up power lines,IMOD,emi, and got their share of DX from 80-6M.

Of course no antenna exist like that. Seems that antenna farming has the most fruitfull results.

Good thing we compare notes, know some of the physics involved. We all wish we had a salt marsh near by to sink in deep ground rods.

Best antenna farm, I saw is owned by some ham that works for the long Island Rail road. His QTH is on the Jamiaca Queens stop.

His shack has his call letters in 6 foot letters. Forgot call.

From what I am able to see he has 2 High gain "high tower verticals. These antennas come with 50 feet of heavy guage tower. On top of the tower are what seem to be a trapped vertical. A few smaller verticals are for specific bands.

The 2 18HTs are located a few hundrede feet apart.
THEY ARE NOT PHASED. The idea is to use the tower(s) as a launch point for dipoles, inverted V's.
Even though the mast acts as a counterpoise, one has penty of height to run many band specific elevated radials.
I am also assuming one would lay down many ground level radials. There are mounting screws at he bottom.
The 18HT is speced to have a 50 foot tower. I would think the legs support base must sink down into the ground a few feet. One does have to pour lots of portland cement(concrete) down into the foundation hole you dug for this huge antenna.

You see lots of ladder line, guy wires and sloper antennas projecting from the tower.

Does aanybody know who this ham is. Would nnot be surpised if he has earned 5 band DXCC and W.A.S for many of the HF bands. 30 years ago 40 or 20M W.A.S. was not that hard to get.

If anybody is near that part of NYC, just about any L.I.R.R train will give you the tour.
Hmmmm...Bet this lucky ham laughs at H.O.A,s (pronounced WHO-AHS Gee sounds like whores)

I think we have more RF junkque on our bands because most has use transistor final rigs. Yout average 1980's rig do not even come close to the -33db
standard on TX. It sould be raised to 40db. Commercial rigs almost mske -36-38db.

I know the sunsot cycle is not resonsible for everything. The M.U.F is not what it used to be.
I am sure everybody owning a PC these days is a factor to.

Just seemed to me that DX was easier to work 25 years ago. Many of us just used 100W and inverted V's were considerd a good DX antenna 15-40M. multiband verticals were an antenna many hams would just have in line most times. We would have a 15M/40M inverted V in line to get what the vertical just barely got.
Most of use never had need for the 1KW max output amps. Well...OK on CW, 100W always worked.

The amp was used on 20M on the weekends. Makes sense.
We all had weekday jobs. 15M SSB got crowded too. Just so many hams you can squeeze into 300KC.

Just seems we got more contacts with chesper rigs and a home brew antenna.

Simple 10-80M hustler or Hygain vertical with a bare minimum of a counterpoise worked great. Elevated radials we just 1-3 per band used.

Those that used close to 100 33 and 66 foot radisls just beneath the soil with a $100 trapped verticals ruled the bands on SSB anyway.

I worked JA often on CW with 100W and a homebrew wire vertical dipole or inverted V.

Sheesh, today some people think if their vertical cost $400.....they will get the rare DX. I can do juat as well with an inverted V that cost me 5 bux in wire.
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by KB8ASO on September 9, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I have a Titan that I purchased used and partially disassembled for transport. I called GAP to get a measured drawing of how the elements should be placed. " Don't have one. Just use the drawing in the manual as a guide and it will work OK. " No, it did not work. It is stored in the attic unused to this day. That manual is one of the worst I have experienced in a commercial product. I have to make too many assumptions. Is a clear, concise manual with a measured assembly drawing too much to ask? Guess so.

Randy AB9GO
 
ANTENNA JOKE  
by PLANKEYE on September 9, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The amp was used on 20M on the weekends. Makes sense.
We all had weekday jobs. 15M SSB got crowded too. Just so many hams you can squeeze into 300KC.

Just seems we got more contacts with chesper rigs and a home brew antenna.

Simple 10-80M hustler or Hygain vertical with a bare minimum of a counterpoise worked great. Elevated radials we just 1-3 per band used.

Those that used close to 100 33 and 66 foot radisls just beneath the soil with a $100 trapped verticals ruled the bands on SSB anyway.

I worked JA often on CW with 100W and a homebrew wire vertical dipole or inverted V.

Sheesh, today some people think if their vertical cost $400.....they will get the rare DX. I can do juat as well with an inverted V that cost me 5 bux in wire.



________________________________________



What can you do with 5 bux in wire?



I don't have the answer, you folks do.


PLANKEYE
 
RE: ANTENNA JOKE/design for plankye  
by WA2JJH on September 10, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
OK PLANKEYE, I will give you a design. Its mothin special.

Go to radio shack. Buy 2 20 foot rolls of 4 conductor ribbon cable. You can also use 80 feet of AC line.

You can construct a multiband Inverted V or dipole.
cut the 4 coductors 10,12,15 and 20M. You can get away with cutting it for 10 and 20M. After 8 feet coil about 3 feet of the wire. This will give you a 1:1.5 swr on 10 and 20M. You should get well under a 2:1 SWR on 12 and 15M.
Want to improve it. Use an antenna analyser. vary coil compression for best swr on the 4 bands.

FEED it with your RG8/58/rq8x coax. Make sure you coil the last 4 feet off tthe coax. This is for a cheap feed line choke.

To be more realistic add $15 for a used balun or make the one in QST for free.

I know you know the rest. Sorry I did not include a photo. The photo would be the instructions.
A picture is worth a thousand words.

If you spend another 10 smackers, buy 2 sections of fiberglass or polymer mast. Get the 6 fo0t sections.
You simply helix your radiator and counter poise sections.

There you have it. a 4 band shortened vertical dipole. By all means construct a capacitance hat.
Try 2 feet and 4 spokes for the capacitance hat.

For roof mounting. You want a minimum of a 1/2 wavelength of the lowest band used. Try about 12 feet for 20M. 6 feet is enough for 10M.

How will it work. Heck......beats the sh-- out of me!
Your location, height above sea level, and trees and buildings less than twice the wavelength of the lowest wavelength will mess you up qa little.

You can duplicate some of the expensive verticals if you buy $20bux worth of stackable PVC mast. Use full 1/4 wavelengths elements for radiator and counterpoise.

Try feeding this sucker with a !;1 unan-unan. DX ENgineering sells the to notch ones.

When I had a QTH in a high rise building, I could have made random length vertical dipoles and inverted V's. The roof was 150 feet above sea level. I just let a roof mounted ATU to tune it up 10-80M.

OK, that system cost far more than a Abe Lincoln on green paper.
 
RE: ANTENNA JOke?  
by WA2JJH on September 10, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
To busy to build. Pay someone $5 to steal a vertical off a roof.

Gets tricky. For $5, only a crackhead will do that gig. He will screw it up. Tell the police you paid him to do it. Demand the judge send you tO a jail with a good ham radio club.

Ivan Bowsky recommends ALLEN WOOD minimum security prison. It is called 'CLUB FED" :)
What a great deal. Fer 1/2 a sawbuck($5) You get three hots-and-a cot!!!!!!!!!! The Bonus is you are not stuck with $5 worth of wire!!!!
You never know who your cellmates maybe. Some of them have millions of dollars in a Swiss bank account.
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by KD4DQN on September 10, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
WOW! Whatever happened to Tranquility Base and since when is honesty a bad thing?
Please let me begin by saying that I am sorry to Kate Hutton. Please accept my apology
for providing you with an antenna that had a defective part. We go to great lengths to
manufacture a quality product. This pride and quality is reflected both in the materials
we purchase, the manufacturing processes we utilize and ultimately the final packaging.
Regrettably you received a CAP unit that was intermittent and therefore unusable. We
measure each CAP unit, before it goes into the fixture for potting and then we measure it
again before that CAP unit is assigned to an antenna. Regrettably, both of these checks
indicated your CAP was ok, so we shipped it. I am sorry this was not the case.

It is my understanding that Chris sent you a replacement unit, which is working, in
addition to an extra set of capacitors and spade terminals for some experimenting. Please
let me know if there is anything else we can do for you and if you have additional
questions please don’t hesitate to ask.


Now I would like to address what was purported to be an “article”. An article that the
author said “isn’t intended as a slam”. Really? If the real issue was the CAP unit and the
intent was to help hams that may have had a problem with their GAP antenna this is how
one would write it? Again I guess I have a different set of values, because personally my
tack would have been more along the lines of;

I was having a problem with my GAP antenna. I found that the CAP unit
on my GAP antenna was causing me to have high VSWR readings. Inside this
CAP unit are some potted capacitors. When I initially measured this unit it
yielded a value, when I pulled on the leads the value changed. I found that if I
soldered the leads to the connector the intermittent reading ceased and I was
back in business. I hope this helps.

Hopefully this would become a useless article because now that we have learned this
happened we have instituted an additional check to further insure the integrity of the CAP
unit.

Next honesty. We are accused of blaming hams because their antennas don’t work.
Chris is an amazing person. He is probably one of the most honest and caring individuals
I have ever had the pleasure to meet, let alone work with. He has been with GAP for
over 16 years and if Chris tells you “actually it isn’t a problem or it isn’t something we
see often”, you can be sure it is the truth. Now I cannot speak for other companies or
individuals and based on the responses I have seen, I guess it must be pretty
commonplace to be less than truthful or to misrepresent, but we strive to be a very open
and honest group. I can tell you that the incident, an intermittent CAP unit, that Steve has
written about is something that I cannot ever recall seeing and we have been employing
the same technique for almost 20 years. This is not to say that there have not been a
couple of instances over the years where the wrong value CAP was placed in a box!

Steve you state that after you had “continued to recommend solder” Chris said “they
wouldn’t solder these terminals as the soldering heat could melt the connector insulation”
When in reality and according to the email sent to Kate on 8/4, Chris’s exact words
regarding the soldering issue were “I will have to check with the guys. I assume it is
because the insulation would melt when you tried to use the soldering iron inside the
insulation, but I could be wrong.”

Yes, the majority of our troubleshooting does start at the base of the antenna and heads
into the shack. And this by NO MEANS is meant to impugn the ham community, so
please don’t take it that way. It is a fact. Unlike that IKEA couch that after it is
assembled will work just as well against a metal wall as it will a sheetrock wall an
antenna won’t. Anyone familiar with the antenna knows it is basically aluminum tubes,
coax, pvc and yes capacitors. The tubes have big holes and little holes drilled in them.
The big hole goes over the little hole and screws are inserted. You don’t need to
measure. What I am getting at, is after you have assembled your antenna, it should look
just like ours. Where and how it is installed will, however effect how it will perform.
For example tuners, amps, switches, filters, coax, rigs, connectors are just a few of the
items we deal with. Did it have anything to do with the antenna? No. If a tuner or linear
in the bypass position does not present a 50 ohm impedance is that the fault of the
antenna? How about contaminated coax or a connector soldered on with a short. Better
still, a connector where the braid is almost shorting out to the center. With a multimeter
it shows open, when power is applied it shorts, take the power away back to open. Are
these antenna problems? No, but they are a part of what we will do to try and figure out
why your antenna does not work like ours.

To imply that Chris said that hams don’t do things properly is ridiculous. Steve, you
stated in an email to Chris; “You may believe there haven’t been many problems, and
possibly there haven’t been many “reported” to you however there are stories all over the
internet, and also on the air (ham radio frequencies) about people finding various GAP
antennas “just don’t work, period,” This is what Chris actually replied “If people are
having a problem, wouldn’t you think they would contact us and let the people who make
the antenna help them figure (out) what is happening? I have had guys send me their
antenna to test that said it did not work and I have found that they had not followed the
instructions and thought they would just put it together with the picture. We have many
guys who don’t like our instructions, they just want pictures and (do) not want to have to
read the steps outlined. A lot of guys also skip things in the instructions they do not think
are needed. Most of the time it is something in the area that the antenna interacts with or
how it was assembled or how it was mounted and setup. If guys work with us we can
figure out what is going on and get them working well. We do not give up on our
customers.”

When he “pushed back” as you called it, he was referring to your assertion that a ham
who posted to eham in March of 05 had similar results to what Kate had. Chris politely
pointed out that the capacitor has nothing to do with this particular individual’s problem.
He even went on to explain to you why this was so. The ham in question had the lowest
VSWR reading of 1.5:1 on 40m. The CAP unit controls 40m. If it was open, as Kate’s
was, he would have exhibited no resonance on 40m.

We are human and sometimes will do things differently because we feel it will be better
and/or of greater frequency, we don’t think it will matter if we make a “change”. Just a
quick comment on this, our Titan has an exit hole at the base of the antenna. In the
original instructions it was written “bring the coax tail out through the exit hole in the
side of the Lower Section”. There is a picture of this as well. The number of times we
helped folks with this was incredible. People weren’t running the coax through the side
exit hole. When asked why, the frequent response was “we didn’t think it mattered”.
Well it did and fortunately when we were provided with VSWR readings we could tell
just from the profile what was wrong. Incidentally, it may surprise some to learn that
when we asked if the coax was coming out the side exit hole, some folks actually told us
yes, even though it wasn’t and we still helped them. Sometimes it took a week,
generally a day or two, but typically this phrase was eventually spoken “ you keep
asking me every time we talk, if the coax is coming out the side exit hole, I guess that’s
pretty important” and after the change is made everything was fine. Contrary to what has
been written, this manual has been redone. Now the sentence “YES, it is important for
the coax to exit through the hole in the side” follows bring the coax through the hole in
the side.

The article states that there are 13 out of 51 users that didn’t like the antenna and we
agree that 13, is 13 to many and we have taken steps to correct this. I would like to point
out that since March of 2005 our Eagle responses have been great. All of the referenced
responses have been a 4 or a 5 out of 5 and the majority of the negative posts go back 7
years or more. We would attribute a large part of this to the manual being redone. Yes,
contrary to what was written the manual has been redone. Unfortunately, we are a victim
of our own doing. We could rewrite the manual a number of times but the stigma would
still be there.

To answer a question that was posted; W3EMT - The majority of our customers are hams
and we take great pride in helping them. We also have been committed since we opened
our doors to do our small part to keep this country going. All of our antennas are
manufactured here and we go to great lengths to purchase the majority of our components
from US companies. To illustrate, we supply a nut driver with each antenna. Even
though it increased costs, we have switched manufacturers three times, because the
companies moved their production to China. As a follow up, Kate did email us saying
“thank you again for sending the new cap so quickly”. I don’t feel this is poor customer
service.

It doesn’t matter who we are. I don’t believe anyone is better than someone else. We
are all capable of making mistakes and the fact that two engineers went over the antenna,
doesn’t mean they can’t make a mistake either. I would invite them to review page 11 of
the Eagle assembly manual, section I, where it is written “Locate your 11/4” mast.
Carefully slide your mast thru the 2 vacant insulating collars until your mast pipe is flush
with the top of the mount plate assembly” and to look at the assembled antenna photo fig
1. In the picture of the completed Eagle posted for this article, it appears the mast is
about 8 inches past the top of the mount plate, almost into the counterpoise bracket. This
may be what is causing your 15m VSWR to be high. In the photos it looks like the feed
line is taped to the support mast in two places. For now I would suggest undoing this as
well. This may be contributing to why there are changes in VSWR when the feed line
length is varied. I would agree, when you vary the feed line, there should not be any
significant VSWR changes. Keep in mind that we use the pvc rings to isolate the antenna
from the support mast, taping the feed back to the mast basically negates the rings
effectivity. It may also be interesting to see if there is any interaction between the
support mast, the antenna and the house. If the house is stucco with wire mesh and the
support mast is bolted to the house are the bolts holding the brackets touching the mesh
and is there any chance continuity is measured from the antenna to the support mast?

To all of you who have shared your experiences thank you. Obviously I am biased, but I
do find it rather interesting that if you posted a negative comment or feedback all is well.
If however, you posted a positive comment you were attacked. To be a manufacturer
you have to be somewhat thick skinned, it goes with the territory. The folks that wish to
comment positively shouldn’t have to be however and they shouldn’t be slammed for
doing so; N0CU referring to a positive post from KI9A “you may want to read all of the
posts. Or if you did read them, you still don’t get it.” W3LZK writes a positive post and
WA7VTD follows with “interesting to see the “white knights” come riding out of the
shadows to defend GAP and it’s products” WB2WIK commenting on WB9NJB’s post
that his Challenger antenna performance has been nothing but favorable; “That’s very
cool! And its performance is compared to ________??? What are the other antennas you
have that you switch back and forth to, to make the performance comparison? That’s
important to know.” Why does he have to compare it to something and where in his post
did he say that he compared it to anything? He told you he gets good reports? I think he
may be happy with his GAP, is that a bad thing?

Thank you for taking your time to read this. This will be my only post. For those of you
who have posted you are having problems please call us (772) 571-9922. We don’t
charge for tech support and we don’t have voicemail. If you don’t call we cannot help.
As Chris stated in his email “We don’t give up on our customers.”

Richard Henf – KD4DQN
President
GAP Antenna Products, Inc.
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by AB0RE on September 10, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Thanks for your reply, Richard. I'm always impressed when a manufacturer replies openly to online posts regarding their products (you've just walked into the lions den, hehe). I'm also glad to see GAP is focused on continuous product improvement and doesn't have a "the customer is usually wrong" mentality.

I picked up a used Titan three or four years ago that was in pretty rough shape. The tech support was great as I ordered and replaced the internal coax harness & capacitor. I think many of us lose sight of the fact that with many "electronic" products technical support is offered for a limited time and only to the original user. Getting anything beyond that is a bonus.

73,
Dan / ab0re
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WB2WIK on September 10, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Richard, nice of you to reply.

The article isn't a "slam," at all. I went into great detail explaining the problem and how it was resolved, and explained after it was resolved the antenna appeared to work -- although even after the repair, and troubleshooting by two engineers with considerable antenna experience, the Eagle still certainly does not meet its published specification for VSWR vs. frequency, especially on 15m where no matter what we do, it exhibits resonant points both above and below the 15m band (one of these is the harmonic resonance of the 40m element), but never VSWR <2:1 anywhere actually in the amateur band.

I also went into detail explaining how coax line length affects the antenna resonance and performance, as a suggestion for others to try similar efforts; however, again, this is a clear indication that the transmission line is very much part of the antenna, which it shouldn't be. GAP does provide some ferrite cores to slip over the preinstalled coaxial cable, and that might help a bit, but evidently it's not nearly enough.

Regarding the instructions, if they've been re-written and improved, I'd love to see the changes. Kate purchased her antenna in July from HRO in Burbank and the instructions supplied with the unit were not good. Single spaced, typed, photocopied, all B&W, no actual photographs; there are adjustable "extensions" on two of the lower resonator sections, and not a word explaining if they should ever be adjusted, or how one would do that. It was lacking a lot.

As someone who's written hundreds of magazine articles, instruction manuals, construction articles, equipment reviews and such over 30+ years, my assessment of the instructions provided with the Eagle is they could be greatly condensed, much better clarified, and made self-explanatory with a few excellent photographs: All of which would cost "nothing."

The reason Allen Wolff and I were both shocked that the instructions did not include complete dimensions for all component parts is that this is standard operating practice for assembly guides -- to assemble *anything.* It allows the user to verify all components prior to beginning assembly, which can save a lot of time in case there's a component that is accidentally "wrong." We're all human and make mistakes, and it's impossible for me to believe that every single antenna GAP (or anyone else) has ever shipped was 100% correct in its material content. A simple set of dimensions would allow users to re-check, and again, would cost "nothing" to provide.

BTW, although I did not mention this in the article, the design at the top of the upper radiator where the capacitor assembly mounts isn't nearly weatherproof, despite the plastic tubing plug supplied. There's a large gap in the side of the tubing just below the plastic plug, where the wire lead exits the capacitor for attachment to the top of the element. If that gap is not caulked, taped or otherwise sealed against the elements, rain water can obviously enter there. In fact, I tried such a test using a sprayer on a water hose: And yep, water enters the antenna at that space, easily. It can be remedied, but the instructions don't make mention of it.

73 and thanks for taking time to post your comments!

Steve, WB2WIK/6
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WB2WIK on September 10, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KD4DQN also wrote:
>WB2WIK commenting on WB9NJB’s post
that his Challenger antenna performance has been nothing but favorable; “That’s very
cool! And its performance is compared to ________??? What are the other antennas you
have that you switch back and forth to, to make the performance comparison? That’s
important to know.” Why does he have to compare it to something and where in his post
did he say that he compared it to anything? He told you he gets good reports? I think he
may be happy with his GAP, is that a bad thing?<

::If someone is satisfied, that's certainly not a bad thing. However, no one -- not me, or you, or God -- can have any idea how well an antenna works without having metrics at work, such as a standard of comparison. "It works very well compared with my dipole at 30 feet," when the writer of such a comment has the two antennas installed at the same time so he can switch between them, is an observation of merit.

"It works better than my XYZ vertical installed on the opposite end of the house at the same height" would also have merit.

"Its performance is favorable" doesn't actually say anything about how it works. I've worked the whole world using an 18" clip lead for an antenna. Does that make it a favorable antenna? What it actually demonstrates is how amazing HF propagation can be (sometimes), that I probably worked other guys using very good stations, and I demonstrated some operating skill by making contacts against all odds. But the 18" clip lead is not a favorable antenna.

Measurements and comparisons are all we have in the scientific community.

73

Steve WB2WIK/6
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WB2WIK on September 10, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KD4DQN also commented:
"In the picture of the completed Eagle posted for this article, it appears the mast is
about 8 inches past the top of the mount plate, almost into the counterpoise bracket. This
may be what is causing your 15m VSWR to be high."

::Actually, no, it's not that. The mast extends only about 4" above the top of the mounting plate, and we also tried it extending just about "zero" above the mounting plate -- no measurable difference at all.

"In the photos it looks like the feed
line is taped to the support mast in two places."

::No, it's not. It's attached to the very bottom of the antenna itself (not the lower supporting mast) using a hose clamp to electrically bond the coaxial splice fitting (PL-258/dual PL-259 assembly) to the bottom of that tubing. That's the only actual attachment. Below that, the "coaxial RF choke" coil, which of course is well-insulated coaxial cable, is indeed taped to the lower supporting mast, for mechanical support only -- but there's no electrical connection there. We taped and untaped that a few times, and it had no impact on resonance measurement.

"For now I would suggest undoing this as
well. This may be contributing to why there are changes in VSWR when the feed line
length is varied. I would agree, when you vary the feed line, there should not be any
significant VSWR changes. Keep in mind that we use the pvc rings to isolate the antenna
from the support mast, taping the feed back to the mast basically negates the rings
effectivity."

::We didn't do that, we just followed the GAP directions, exactly. The only "taping" of the feedline to the support mast is a mechanical support, for strain relief, and there's no electrical contact of any sort there. The capacitance through the vinyl jacket of the coax to the support mast, considering the contact area of the insulation is maybe 2 square inches, is just a few picofarads -- won't have any effect at 30 MHz or below.

73

Steve WB2WIK/6
 
NO JOKE  
by PLANKEYE on September 10, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
The amp was used on 20M on the weekends. Makes sense.
We all had weekday jobs. 15M SSB got crowded too. Just so many hams you can squeeze into 300KC.

Just seems we got more contacts with chesper rigs and a home brew antenna.

Simple 10-80M hustler or Hygain vertical with a bare minimum of a counterpoise worked great. Elevated radials we just 1-3 per band used.

Those that used close to 100 33 and 66 foot radisls just beneath the soil with a $100 trapped verticals ruled the bands on SSB anyway.

I worked JA often on CW with 100W and a homebrew wire vertical dipole or inverted V.

Sheesh, today some people think if their vertical cost $400.....they will get the rare DX. I can do juat as well with an inverted V that cost me 5 bux in wire.




______________________


I hope I didn't seem disrespectful Sir, I loved your post.

You have something that all of us can learn from.

5 bux in wire goes a long way with me.

Thank you Sir, your words here really made me think.

God Bless, and have a great weekend!!






PLANKEYE
 
FINALE  
by PLANKEYE on September 10, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
WB2WIK:

Finale.

Kate's antenna now works, but she's just getting started on HF and in ham radio, so it will take some time to tell how well it works. At least it resonates, and with time…and propagation…she should enjoy many contacts. To her benefit, although Kate's a new “no code” ham, she did take it upon herself to learn code and her very first contact with the new Eagle DX was on 40m CW!

____________________



PLANKEYE:

DUDE?

FINALE?

Who's the man now?


DUDE?????

Do you not get it?



BE NICE!!!!



PLANKEYE
 
awesome feedback!!!!  
by WA2JJH on September 10, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Wow, one of the head honchos of gap, took time to exlain his side. In a case of A and B sides, T=truth.
T of course is somewhere in the middle. True sometimes some truths are self evident of course.

Of oourse their will always be variable results. Their number is directly to a hams a particular location.
In my neck of the woods....all the AM Broadcast stations are located in te medowlands of New Jersey.
Of course the semi-briny marshes that are a danger to local kids....are simply the best grounds for those totemic AM phased array.

The 50KW clear channel stations use one single. tower and get the center of the marsh.


MR PLANKYE, if you do construct my BTN (better than nothing) vertical, I would like to know if it did OK or just plain sucked!

Here is an old family recipe for a $2 2 meter ground plain. you need on SO-239 receptical, 150W solder gun, 4 metal "non Joan Crawsfeld style"
Out of the coat hangers, cut 5 19" sections of whip.
Solder 4 of them thru the holes of the SO-239 connector.
Make sure the solder joints are solid. Use the lase section in the center pin for rsdiator.
Hate coat hangers....Paper clips will work as well.
The copper plated ones are easier to solder.

dual band base. Exact same materials as 2M ground plane. In addition to the 4 19" radials add 7" of unbent paper clips. So you have 4 radials perband

What the heck is the point JJH is making. I always have felt that a great deal of performance are identical to the 3 rules of Real Estate.
1)LOCATION 2)LOCATION, 3) LOCATION. I am sure the GAP is a great antenna for those that have high elevation
Nuetral 7 to 9 PH. Other factors may inlude what mineals are in the ground.

Best Bull Crap I heard was this dork that claimed his antenna worked better after he added some type of worm to the soil. A DX worm?????? Heck, bet MFJ sells them after reading my post. I will sue for a percentage! HI-HI.
Plankeye, here is my recipe for a cheap dual band ground plane. Get a SO-239 connector, 150W solder gun. 5 metal coat hangers or lots of paper clip.

Solder the radials thru the mounting holes. You should alternate 19"(2M) 7" 440 or 70cm.
The radiator is a 19 inch section. You can add 440 2 wAYS. Make a capitance hat 1.5 inches long. From the feed point measure up 6". At 6" solder your 70cm cap hat. Make sure it is exactly centered.

2nd way do all steps the same way. Only the radiator will be different. Solder in the 19" radiator first.
Take 7.5" of paper clip. Make an L shaped element.
.5" horizontal, 7" vertical. solder the .5" end to center pin of connector.

Radio Shack used to sell a great super cheap ground plane. I had one. It covered 6M-2.4GHZ. It can be build with junkque too!!!!!!
 
RE: awesome feedback!!!!  
by WA2JJH on September 10, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Glad to hear Kates antenna is working in a decent to great fashion.

WORD TO THE WISE.....YOU WOULD BE SHOCKED HOW MANY NONHAMS(I CALL THEM ROASTBEEFS)READ E-HAM. HAMS are considered an unusual group. Above average education. Law abiding.
supportive of our troups. Pro-NRA. NO HAM HAS BEEN CAUGHT AS A SERIAL OR PARALLEL KILLER. We do sometimes bicker over bull sheet(fecal matter)

The most important thing to me is that we sometimes can combine efforts and solve some problems. These problems seem like POST GRADUATE CALCULAS TO THE AVERAGE Joe G. SHMOE.

73 to all.
 
RE: awesome feedback!!!!  
by KB8ASO on September 11, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KD4DQN commented:

"Unfortunately, we are a victim
of our own doing. We could rewrite the manual a number of times but the stigma would
still be there."

So you are not even going to put forth the effort to rewrite your documentation? Even though most here have complained how unclear the documentation is? The only way to elminate the "stigma" is to listen to your customers reasonable requests and act upon them.

I have downloaded the documentation on the Titan today 9/11/09 9:30 AM and it is the same that I have on file @ home. Here is the section of the Titan manual that I need measurements on:

"The standoffs have been prepositioned at the factory for your convenience. When orienting these
standoffs you should not have to move them along the mast, but simply loosen the
clamp and lever them out, so they are perpendicular to the mast. If you should slightly
shift their relative position along the mast don't despair. Slight movement is not critical."

The standoffs are no longer on the antenna, removed for transportation. Not even a mark where they were previously. Please define "Slight movement". The position of the standoffs determine the ultimate location if the tuner rods in relationship to the mast and to the gap. I would suspect that the correct position of the rods is a prerequisite for proper operation i.e. low swr? Take 5 - 10 min and update the docs please!

Here is the section of the manual unedited:

4.0 GENERAL
There are four 102" Mid tuner rods, two Lower tuner rods 30" and 60" and one 51" Top tuner rod. Two extensions complete the tuner rod package. The standoffs have been prepositioned at the factory for your convenience. When orienting these
standoffs you should not have to move them along the mast, but simply loosen the
clamp and lever them out, so they are perpendicular to the mast. If you should slightly
shift their relative position along the mast don't despair. Slight movement is not critical.


Randy AB9GO
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by W2RE on September 11, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
VIDEO: Gap vs Hex beam on 20M Mid-day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbMV4iRtOOs

The Gap is always 3-5 S units below the hex beam.
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WB2WIK on September 11, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Not surprising at all.

The Hex is similar to a Moxon, just a folded-back Yagi, with about the same performance based on boom length.

The GAP is inexplicable. There is no theory that describes why it would be equivalent to a 1/2-wave center-fed vertical, for if it were, it should only be down about 3-4 dB from the Hexbeam.

I've seen the same results, numerous times.

If the "designer" of the GAP would care to check in and explain the theory behind it, in very scientific terms, that would be spectacular and I look forward to hearing that, along with the finite element analysis which is a must-have for determining performance.

WB2WIK/6
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed and is hungry  
by WA2JJH on September 11, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Yes, I am sure many of us want a hypothosis proven to be theory. I am sure the designer will not have to resort to Maxwells equations.

If there is a patent to protect. The date filed will due.

Many times I try to recreate unusual verticals with wire. I never got anything that was great. Just OK to good on some bands. When antenna was moved, all went to hell in a few cases.

To be a true Theory, the results have to be repeatable any time, any where.

Best Novel antenna I have seen was published on eham and then kits were offered for those that wanted plug and play antenna's.

The antenna that has impressed me this year was the reduced size dipole.
The cleaver ham simply wrapped both ends into 2 4 foot diameter flat coils. Large spacings of coil turns
eleminates all most all unwanted inductance.

In terms of a vertical, simply imagine a 4 foot diameter circle for counterpoise, short amount of feed line. The radiator was 1/4 wave length of band used also wrapped into a flat multiturn coil. Very nice design. The math checks out. I understand that this short dipole works as well as a full size one. This is because they are the same lengths. This ham just wisely exploited simple geometry!!!!.

I got inspired to to make this multibanded. Add capacitance hats and coils.(future project) The designers monoband design simple follows the same theory as a full length 1/2 wave dipole. It works as well mounted as a vertical.

So, if GAP wants to respond, they know we can come to our own conclusions. What ever any antenna is designed, they all can be expressed as derivative or partial differntial/gradiant equations derived from Maxwell or Hertz.
The equations when solved are expressed as simple formulas, or equations. 2PIxFxL for example.
The math is always the proof period.
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by K9DEH on September 13, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
My Titan DX went bad and it was the terminal on the feedline to the capacitor that was corroded. It also was crimped, not soldered. I had to trim the wire over an inch to get solderable metal and then soldered a new terminal on. Gap needs to add the minor step of soldering these connections if they want to improve their ratings and not lose customers.
K9DEH
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WB2WIK on September 13, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I did mention the lack of solder in all the wire terminals and Chris replied they don't solder these because the wire wicks the solder and makes the wire too stiff outside the lugs, so they become too brittle and are subject to breakage.

I have a solution for that: Apply soldering heat to the terminal (lug) itself, and flow solder in the back end of the lug where it is crimped. Solder can only flow in one direction that way, which is towards the heat source. No way it can wick up the wire, that's impossible because the wire's cold.

I suspect there's nobody there with any actual manufacturing engineering background. It's a special skill and most good manufacturing engineers have 20 years experience working for other good manufacturing engineers. It was a whole "department category" when I was with HP.

WB2WIK/6
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by KC2POU on September 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I think I'll jump right over that GAP. ...sorry
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed in dog crap.  
by WA2JJH on September 14, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
If I must make an obviouse obnoxious observation.

GAP is a very appropiate name.

1)The instructions are filled with gaps

2)Seems to be a huge GAP in quality control. Even those that were pleased with the antenna, had to take a GAP of time off air, to add, fix, or solder something.

3)If MFJ aka mighty fine junk, purchased GAP. I have a new ad slogan.

MFJ IS PROUD TO ANNOUNCE OUR PURCHASE OF GAP ANTENNA.
SO, YOU WILL NOT BE STUCK WITH A "HUSTLER", WE FILL THE GAP!!!! YOU WILL NEVER FEEL SHAFTED BY A SCREWDRIVER OR TAKE RANDOM WIRE CHANCES BY BUILDING YOUR OWN ANTENNA.

AT MFJ WE FILL IN THE GAPS FOR THE NEW HAM.
MFJ leaves no gap in the array of MIGHTY FINE JOULES OF ALL THE OTHER JUNK NEEDED FOR YOUR SHACK!!!!!!
IF YOU SHOULD HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH YOU MFJ/GAP PURCHASHED, WE NOW HAVE A FULL TIME COMPLAINT MANAGEMENT TEAM.
IN FACT WE ARE HONORED TO HAVE MANY EX-ENRON ENGINNERS ON A SWISS BANK PAYROLE SYSTEM.
WE HAVE JUST HIRED THE WELL KNOWN HELLEN WAITE.

IF YOU EVER HAVE ANY PERFORMANCE GAP OR PROBLEM..... YOU CAN GO TO HELLEN WAITE!!!!!!!!!
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed in dog crap.  
by WB2WIK on September 15, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I think it's very telling that KD4DQN, GAP President, made some comments on 9/10 and then never returned. It's now 9/15 and will be 9/16 in a few hours, here.

I made an effort to address every one of his open-ended comments, but must surmise those weren't read.

Why am I not surprised? ;-)
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed in dog crap.  
by KI4SDY on September 16, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Why not save a lot of time and money by just putting up a G5RV as an inverted V?
 
VERY TELLING  
by PLANKEYE on September 17, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I think it's very telling that KD4DQN, GAP President, made some comments on 9/10 and then never returned. It's now 9/15 and will be 9/16 in a few hours, here.

I made an effort to address every one of his open-ended comments, but must surmise those weren't read.

Why am I not surprised? ;-)

_______________________


If you want to help GAP make a better antenna, CALL THEM.

If you think you can make a better Antenna than GAP, MAKE IT.

Nothing you are doing here on this Website is helping anyone.

You have more Open-Ended comments in the article and your responses than I can count.

It is very telling!

You want to talk big, and hope nobody will see through it.

Look at your Post above, you are trolling for GAP!

Because GAP never responded to your Open-Ended comments.

GAP is making Antennas, while you are trolling for GAP on E-Ham. VERY TELLING!!



DUDE?
 
RE: VERY TELLING  
by WB2WIK on September 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
No dudes here.

The purpose of the article was to warn other GAP antenna owners of a potential problem.

I've received more than 20 e-mails now telling me that: Yep, that's why my GAP did not work properly. People are finding this problem, and some are fixing it. Anyone with a soldering iron and two 1200pF mica capacitors can fix it on their own, without any help from GAP or elsewhere.

Simple as that.
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed in dog crap.  
by WA2JJH on September 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
KI4SDY... Very true Inverted V's do give the best bang for the buck. 52 ohm intrinsic Z for band it is made
for. Very low angle of radiation.

Combo 40M/15M inverted V's used to be a defacto favorite. You do need to launch the feedpoint very high. Many with much real state. make 5 band inverted V's.

For some reason, many thought a simple to install all band Vertical antenna Was a must have antenna.
Another goof up was, to use a section of not properly decoupled feed line as counterpoise. Some couterpoise is better than no counterpoise.

Many were in denial that a trapped vertical is really a multiband dipole, mounted verticly.
For roof monting, 4 radials per band is nice. Some get creative. An active element with some studs added would provide under 2:1 SWR.
All rigs now have an ATU in them. Notice the ATU is there to provide a good match on TX.

Seems like a Novel Type multiband vertical is a motorized screw driver. The motor tunes large internal coil to dial up a 1/4wave length radiator section of a 1/2 Wave vertical. Some will use traps on the
counterpoise.
For roof mounting 2 radials per band will do. 4 is better. Using a drop down counterpoise may be the only way to get the 1/2 wave vertical for the lowbands.

This is why limited BW is a fact for the restricted size Verticals OR HORIZONAL DIPOLES.

antennas
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed.  
by WA2JJH on September 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
People than can bury near 100 33 amd 66 foot radials, will always be the vertical.

Ironic because the radials take all that horizontal area.

Perhaps a 2 moter screw driver that tunes the counterpoise and radiator may be something to try.
 
YOU DON'T FOOL ME  
by PLANKEYE on September 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I think it's very telling that KD4DQN, GAP President, made some comments on 9/10 and then never returned. It's now 9/15 and will be 9/16 in a few hours, here.

I made an effort to address every one of his open-ended comments, but must surmise those weren't read.

Why am I not surprised? ;-)

_________________________


You bait folks.

If you have a better Antenna than GAP, please make it available to all of us.

You set the bait out for GAP in your above post.

They just didn't take your bait.

That makes you mad.

You make many mistakes in your words Sir.

Would you like me to give you examples?



Think before you speak.




DUDE?
 
Re nothing wrong with experimenting.  
by WA2JJH on September 18, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I never claimed to have an antenna that beats anybody elses antenna. I am expressing known facts. Then I compare them with price ad what the antenna claims to be able to do.

Fact is there is no perfect antenna for a huge amount of bands and QTH parameters. such parameters such as height above sea level. Water table, mineal contact of soil.

I then went one to discuss some ideas I have foe sace saving designs

Many of use know of a few novell designs. When tested in real life they fell short.

I just had an idea for a 3 element antenna coulld act as a 3 element hashed array of a super omni-directional. I realised I would have to use a minimum of 8 screw driver elements. That would make it too exensive.for a multiband onmi-quasi directional array.

You can bet GAP or ANYBODY else got a patent brfore manufacture. After all.......we are not socialist!!!!! :)
 
RE: Re nothing wrong with experimenting.  
by WB2WIK on September 19, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I'm not in the antenna business, although I did run an antenna and tower installation company for several years (no manufacturing).

The best HF vertical on the market today is the SteppIR BigIR, with 105 radials under it. Anybody can buy one, and most people can probably install one, although it's a 2-3 day process to do it right.

The GAPs are all compromise antennas, but those also have a market.

Buy the K7LXC report on HF vertical antennas: It's not free, and it's not on line but thousands have purchased it (including me), and it's a very good, scientific report. I hope they follow up with an updated version to include more recent models that have come to market since the original report was written.
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by KG4ODX on September 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I own a GAP Challenger DX, it was installed per the manufactures instructions. It works GREAT, the best(does better than my dipoles) bands are 40 and 20 meters and it's as good as a dipole on 80 meters.
The installation and assembly instructions that came with my Challenger DX said nothing about a coaxial RF choke, so maybe this has changed. I did not install a
in-line lighting protector but did drive a ground rod into the ground next to the antenna. When storms approach or when not in use I ground the antenna to the ground rod.
So far (1 year) it has been a GREAT antenna, time will tell if holds up.
 
RE: The Eagle Has Landed  
by WR6S on September 20, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I had a titan at my last QTH and it worked comparatively well,sometimes better,sometimes worse then many other switchable antennas i had up.That was on 26 acres. I moved to a residential district and based on a dead flat match and COMPARATIVE results to other antennas,and dead flat match on all bands i decided to go with the short EAGLE. YES THE INSTRUCTIONS SUCK. I was almost tempted to submit my own,and still may,as ive had to become VERY familiar with the antenna.
I called GAP a total of 4 times before final assembly to "make sure" i had things put together right in my living room[extending into the kitchen LOL]. I got prompt and dont know who i talked to but he was down to earth and not condescending at all about questions he most certainly has to answer several times a week if not more. I know i would not have the patience.
I put the antenna up and the SWR figures were horrid,with 12m completely gone, and 15m resonant at 20.8.
I called GAP,explained my readings and started what i imagine is a troubleshooting "process" they go thru.At no time was i made to feel pressured,like i was taking up too much time,or belittled.Simple questions were prefaced with"i dont mean to make you sound stupid but is the .......away from the ......
I spent several hours total on the phone while they tried to help me get the numbers down.I wont go into them here.
After going thru numerous checks,including continuity and also sending pictures,the tech told me everything should be working and then asked if i had a 2 meter antenna near the GAP. I explained that i did in fact have a GP9 14 feet away,and the feedpoints were almost exactly in line. It was explained to me that one of the "shortcomings"[exact terminology used by the tech]is sensitivity to coupling.
It was decided that the next step in the process would be to pick a windy day and see if i could watch the gap,s swr change as if the wind were effecting it. A few days later,sure enough,i could see it. The tech wanted me to call back and let him know what was up.He really "bought into"my problem.
So now i am getting ready to put up a tower and move the gp9,hopefully that solves the problem. If not,ill be back on the phone and expect to get treated with the same RESPECT i got previously.
Yea, the manual absolutely stinks, but i have dealt with more then 10 other companies i can think of about problems and NEVER got such personal,unrushed,and personable treatment as i did with GAP.
Is the antenna usable now, yup,with a tuner,which they say not to use.Oh well. Is it a good performer,well a verticle is a verticle.This one is idiosyncratic.Does its small footprint work out well for some, im sure it does. Is it a good product, thats in the eye of the beholder/purchaser. I wrote this to explain my hours of respectful dealings with GAP,and how i was not made to feel like an idiot, like i have been dealing with other companies, and at times i have been an idiot,all of us are at one time or another. Is it a bad design. I gota feeling it is,but i think it performs well for me now with the tuner,and it was one of the few antennas i could put up.I will say i am dissapointed with the cost, thats FOR SURE, but NOT dissapointed with the customer service,WR6S so cal
 
RE: Re nothing wrong with experimenting.  
by WA2JJH on September 22, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I have heard great signals fromt those using the STEP(IR). Seems like a better way to go than the 18HT. With 50 feet of mast included, the 18HT sells for about $900++ Rememember when Lafayette sold Ham antenna's? The 18HT checked in at $349 back then. It was the most expensive Vertical sold.

The 14AAVTQ(10-40M) sold for well under $100. That is just before LRE died.

They used to make 5/8wave base CB antenna's that worked great after you removed the 10M gamma match. With a 23'+ length radiator and 4 9 foor aluminum radials, all for $29.

I made a few decent 10-40M verticals out of them. Had 150+ feet above sea level QTH. I just added a few radials of wire for 15 and 20M.
For 40M, a single 33 foot counterpoise over the roof.
Any band was good with a tuner.

Today, $29 Buys me 25-30 feet of stackble fiberglass mast/vertical sections. % bux is left over for the multiconductor flat ribbon radials.

I guy it at 20FT. Since the radiator is only helickley wound wire, I can find a good spot for the guy wires. The wire radiator is loosely tied to the fiberglass mast with plastic cable tie's.
I will see if I can get 2 years of use out of it.
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by WA7YUL on September 23, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
I assembled and installed a GAP Eagle DX 3 years ago here in AZ. Worked just great from the get-go. 2 years ago, I disassembled it and moved it to Maine, where I re-assembled it. Worked great. Summer of '09, I disassembled it in Maine, returned to AZ, re-assembled it, and it's working great. Following the instruction booklet was never a problem. Why does it work for me? What are my qualifications? I retired as an auto mechanic/body man 40+ years ago. I'm a retired elementary school teacher and retired real estate broker. Been a ham since 1973. Who knows? Maybe I'm just lucky. Read book. Insert sheet metal screws.
 
The Eagle Has Landed  
by WX4US on September 24, 2009 Mail this to a friend!
Great article. I have owned a Titan for 3 years. The first two years it worked perfect. About a year ago I found that it was out of tune in all bands. I disassembled it and found nothing wrong. After several emails, frequency/swr charts using a MFJ-259B, and calls to the company they suggested that I check and clean all connections. I live with in 10 miles of the Gulf of Mexico and they thought there might be salt in the air causing some corrosion. Every part looked in near perfect shape, but I cleaned everything with Deoxit, put new connectors on all wires and soldered them, and reassembled the antenna. 80m and 40m came back into usable tune while the other bands improved some, but were still detuned. I contacted GAP again and they could not believe the antenna was not working and asked me to send detailed photos of every part of the antenna as well as a new frequency/swr chart. That was the last I heard from them and that has been 6 month ago. The antenna works fairly well with a tuner, but I miss the ability to switch bands without tuning. I only physically checked the caps at the tip or the antenna for damage or loose wires. Thanks for the tip. I plan on taking it down this weekend and check it a little more closely.
 
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